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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:02:55

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Hello, dear listener and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast with a LinkedIn profile is varied and

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eventful as Letitia Jones.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Pisa.

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I'm Todd, and I'm a somewhat sidelined, but not miscast regular

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for this episode.

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Well, you know what it's like when you fancy someone and they

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don't even know you exist?

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Well, that's been our lives for the last 13 weeks.

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So this is us getting out.

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But before we do, we'd like to welcome you to our series 3

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retrospective.

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Okay, let's get on with this.

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Peter, it's your first time here, I think, for a retrospective, so

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you get to dive into the box of delights, first of all.

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I'm very excited about this.

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Box of delights.

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Hopefully it'll be something like Kinder, yeah?

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You cleaned that up beautifully.

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All in the family, Martha's siblings, Tish and Leo.

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All right, let's discuss.

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Um, well, Goo Goo, Mabatha Raw is fabulous as Tish.

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I understand she might have been in the contention to play Martha

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as well.

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Like originally?

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Yeah.

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And of course, she's gone on to have a stellar career.

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I think she, anytime she's on screen, it's clear that she's going

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to be, you know, something special and go on to do big things.

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Leo, what a shame he's not a morgue.

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He got such a cute little face on him, but I think he was a CBC

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presenter at the time or something along those lines and his

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availability was not huge.

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And so that's why he's not in the last 2 parts or if he had have

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been, it might have made those bit more full.

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So I think the idea was that he was going to do the Thomas

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Milligan role, wasn't he?

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That he was going to welcome her on the beach or something like

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that.

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Yeah, which would have been kind of nice because he was a little

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bit of a sort of silly goofball in Lazarus experiment and, you

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know, gets hit in the head and falls over and stuff.

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And he's just terribly sweet.

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And it would have been nice to give him a chance to be sort of

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heroic.

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I think it is someone else in the window when the doctor looks in

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at the very end, it's not.

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Doesn't he get that one?

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I thought it was him.

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Does he not get one scene, does?

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where he's strolling along the beach?

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Yeah, yeah. in Brighton and he manages to kind of escape the, you

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know, it's not the talent.

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Yeah, that's right.

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I think coming back to this, I enjoy both of them and I'd

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forgotten, you know, perhaps how comedic he was in that episode.

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I think it's a shame that Martha is a one and done companion

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because we've missed the opportunity to actually possibly see a

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sibling go in the TARDIS and experience what the companion goes

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through and actually have a shared experience.

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We never had that in Doctor Who.

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She's the only companion really in Doctor Who that actually has a

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family.

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I mean, Yaz now has a sister.

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I mean, I think the closest we ever got was Brett Vion and Sarah

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Kingdom back in 1965.

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I mean, honestly, recasting that.

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But, you know, if you think about it, you know, educate a brother

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who died.

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Turlo had a brother who was just there to get rid of him.

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Lisa had a father. don't know what happened to him.

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But so many Leila had a father.

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Yeah, but... had a talented brother as well.

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I guess the thing is, so many 2 companions, either only siblings

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or orphans or they have like a distant relative.

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I mean, I know Tegan had a 1000 relatives, but actually to have a

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sister or a brother go into the Tartars, you know, with the

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companion.

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I think that would have been great.

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And I think they're both very capable actors, actresses.

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Google, I think, is spectacular.

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I've mentioned that before and it would, and it's a shame, I

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think.

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I think the closest that we get is in the Lazarus experiment where

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both of them get to run away from, you know, the Lazarus monster

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together.

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And it's really fun.

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I think it's really enjoyable having her there.

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It's the John and Gillian principle and then we wonder why it

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wasn't followed through.

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Well, I think Russell has set up a good family to follow Rose's

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family, but they don't get explored in the same depth.

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So Lazar experiment is good for that.

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You know, you do get a feel for Martha's family and it feels like

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you're, you know, revisiting elements which have already been set

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up, but that kind of falls by the wayside a little bit.

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I think too, by getting Martha's mother kind of involved in this

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sort of conspiracy.

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We don't get to see a normal family relationship very much.

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You know, the 1st 2 parter of the whole sort of RTD era is very

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much about involving the family in Rose's adventures.

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But here they kept it a little bit of a distance, partly I think

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because Martha's older, but also because we've got this sort of

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weird thing where the family's involved in a sort of conspiracy

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that Mr. Saxon conspiracy.

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So we, we, the only chance that we properly get to meet them just

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in normal circumstances is in the last experiment.

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Would have been great if Francine had jumped in the TARDIS for

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Daleks in Manhattan dressed down a pig sleeve or to...

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We'll get to her.

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All right, Richard, next in the box of delights.

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Um, Snog Mary, kill.

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Harold Saxon, Professor Yana, and the master.

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It's kind of like a flummery, isn't it, or a fool or a delicious

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trifle because really you mix them all up together again and eat

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all of them, can't you?

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So I just think this has turned into one of those films that not

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in front of my trifle. turned into one of those ones. you can

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really do all with all, can't you?

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Are they all interpositional?

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It's like those old mego figures we played with in the 70s of

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Batman or Spider-Man or Wonder Woman, but once you got their

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onesie off, apart from the gimp mask, they all had the same bodies

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and you could pull them all backwards. anyway, that's my childhood

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for you.

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If I had to, of all of them, well, look, Saxon, oh, it'd be like

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sorry, how can I say?

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It would be like walking a ferrish in a crowded dog park, wouldn't

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it?

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I don't think you'd get a lot of time to yourself.

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I think, I think whatever you ended up doing with Harold Saxon, it

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would be highly energetic and over very quickly.

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So I'd probably avoid Harold's sex.

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And Professor Yana, however, I mean, he's a charming sweetie, isn't

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he?

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But I think I would end up being the Ian McCellen too, Professor

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Yano, and we'd sit about in an apartment and just say horrid

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things about other theatricals.

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That's vicious, isn't it?

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That's all the seasons are vicious. you'd marry him.

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Now, the master which one?

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Because I actually really like Jeffrey B's master.

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So I probably, oh, except, oh, it'd be like kissing a budget

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bolognese, wouldn't it, just be all over your face at once.

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Snog Peter Pratt's master and get a nice eyeball or 2 in here.

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That's more like something Calvin would make for lunch, isn't it?

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With a floating egg in the middle.

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So, yeah, why not?

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I mean, you know, I'm all for a master stock.

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See what I did there?

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I'll have that.

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Thank you, Todd.

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That was, I hope, was enjoyable for the listeners as it was for

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me.

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It was good that you got that one actually.

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I'd forgotten I'd put that in there.

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All right.

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It was illuminating.

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Nathan?

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What have you got for us?

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Okay, series three.

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So this is the themes of series three.

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What do I think?

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So what are you, yeah.

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So I think that my feeling about series 3 as a whole is sort of

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largely unchanged from this process.

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I think it has the best arc that any of RTDs eras have, they're

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kind of finding their way with series one.

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Series 2 is, you know, Torchwood, I guess it's okay, but it

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doesn't really sort of affect the individual episodes quite so

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much.

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Whereas this one has a very, very clever thing.

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And it is an echo of what happens in series one, isn't it?

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Where the villain in episode 11 travels back in time to the middle

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of series 2 and then is mentioned, you know, over and over again

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and starts to affect what's going on with Martha's family and in

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episodes of series 3.

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Now individual episodes.

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I think, you know, people have sort of a different idea of how

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successful they are.

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But I also think too, the wonderful thing is the order that RTD

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introduces his villains and things.

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So series one introduces the Daleks, who are Hartnell's nemesis

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series 2 introduces the Cybermen, Troughton's Nemesis, and series

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3 introduces us to Pertwee's nemesis.

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So all of the mythology is being introduced for an entire new

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generation of fans in the order.

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Series 4, this on...

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Yeah, yeah.

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I just think it's, I think it's just wonderful.

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It is sort of really fun.

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And as for the quality of the episodes, I think I don't think

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there are any outright stinkers.

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I think there are fewer low points than last year, and there are

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one or 2 sort of spectacular high points.

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So I think it's really good.

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There's also an emotional arc there with Martha.

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I mean, you know, it's a little bit hit and miss.

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You know, I don't know if people particularly like the fact that

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she's got this unrequited love for the doctor, particularly from

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the doctor's point of view.

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He treats Martha a little bit shabbily, but it adds an emotional

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resonance to the season, which I don't think that the previous 2

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had.

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They were sort of plot fundamentals, whereas this actually, you

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know, development in the character.

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I think there's a confidence in performance, and there's a

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confidence in production, like that all comes together in this

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season, that makes it, for me, so much more perhaps rounded and

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every episode, there's quality in every episode, as you said

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Nathan, there's a few dips, but I just think there's so many solid

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performances and enjoyment in it.

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I've been surprised at the consistency and certainly Freema's

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performance for me has been an absolute highlight.

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She's so likeable.

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I have this theory and I feel bad saying it because I love series

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one a lot.

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I think that each RTD series is better than the last, that they

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just gradually get better and better.

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And I could be wrong, maybe series 4 is a car crash and I'm

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misremembering it, but I think I probably am not.

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Each series learns from the last one.

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Each series, they learn what, you know, works and what doesn't

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work and they sort of build upon that.

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And, you know, series one comes out with a great deal of

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confidence and the advantage of not knowing whether it's going to

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succeed.

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So everyone's absolutely trying their hearts out.

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But, you know, we've had 2 years of Doctor Who now, and they've

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learned from that, and I think series 3 benefits from it.

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I like what you're saying, but we've seen years and years.

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We've seen banana cucumber.

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We know that he's only happy.

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This is RTD when everything is up in the air, and it's the

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greatest show in the galaxy, and the clowns of evil are running

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the show, but he fears he's internal clowns as much as he

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celebrates them.

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I really do think if we'd had a full season five, I could not have

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done those 4 specials for an entire season, because it would have

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been woeful and indulgent in the worst way, and it would have all

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been the Jungian shadows are out in the park to play eating the

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tiny animals in the trees.

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It really would have been horrible and dark and indulgent because

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that's where Russell ends up.

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When he has a success.

247
00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:32.460
I know.

248
00:12:32.519 --> 00:12:33.059
I feel it.

249
00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:34.559
He doesn't feel he deserves it.

250
00:12:34.620 --> 00:12:36.779
He feels that it's all been pissed up against the wall.

251
00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:38.159
He hasn't tried hard enough.

252
00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:39.600
It's the curse of perfectionism.

253
00:12:39.659 --> 00:12:40.980
I think it would have been dire.

254
00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:43.679
So you're saying it's good that we had those specials because that

255
00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:46.500
allowed him to kind of have that little coder at the end.

256
00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:49.679
It's good that there's only 4 so I cannot watch them if I choose.

257
00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:51.419
Do you know?

258
00:12:51.419 --> 00:12:54.179
Do you know, I think there is...

259
00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:56.759
Do you know, I think there's a problem with the fact that the last

260
00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:00.059
2 parter is a little bit polarising and that's not the case in any

261
00:13:00.059 --> 00:13:01.559
of the other Russell seasons.

262
00:13:01.620 --> 00:13:04.139
And so when people think about this season, if they don't like the

263
00:13:04.139 --> 00:13:07.679
finale, in your mind's eye, it brings it down a little bit, whereas

264
00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:10.620
actually on average, the call of the episodes is as good as any

265
00:13:10.620 --> 00:13:12.120
other year. agree with you.

266
00:13:12.179 --> 00:13:14.220
I mean, I was discussing last week.

267
00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:17.759
The final conclusion, I find a bit of a letdown.

268
00:13:17.820 --> 00:13:22.200
And so that sticks in my mind, and certainly having famous

269
00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:24.600
performance in that, which is not showing emotion, sticks in my

270
00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:24.840
mind.

271
00:13:24.899 --> 00:13:27.720
And that's not the case, like for the rest of the season.

272
00:13:27.779 --> 00:13:29.700
So it's interesting that you picked up on that.

273
00:13:33.539 --> 00:13:37.259
All in the family, the master's wife.

274
00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:42.720
So we're doing the American version of Tour Deathos Dupart, that

275
00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:45.419
had Warren Mitchell, but this one had Archie Bunker, which was

276
00:13:45.419 --> 00:13:48.299
called All in the Family, and launched the career of B. Arthur, as

277
00:13:48.299 --> 00:13:49.500
Cousin Maud.

278
00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:51.659
So how does that work with Doctor Who?

279
00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:53.460
Is she really spun off that?

280
00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:54.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

281
00:13:54.419 --> 00:13:59.519
She was the cool, lefty educated aunt of all in the family.

282
00:13:59.580 --> 00:14:01.320
And then she gets to spin off good times.

283
00:14:01.379 --> 00:14:02.519
And then there's Maude.

284
00:14:02.580 --> 00:14:02.759
Yeah.

285
00:14:02.820 --> 00:14:03.659
And then there's good time.

286
00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:04.980
Good times a spinoff for that.

287
00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:06.899
It's a spinoff of Maude. amazing.

288
00:14:07.500 --> 00:14:09.120
There we go.

289
00:14:09.179 --> 00:14:11.220
A little bit of television history there.

290
00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:13.379
Yes, that's where I did take that.

291
00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:15.960
I think it's so clever.

292
00:14:16.019 --> 00:14:20.519
You know, the doctor has never had a wife.

293
00:14:20.580 --> 00:14:22.200
He's had a potential girlfriend.

294
00:14:22.379 --> 00:14:27.539
Nathan, you always talk to us about the Pertuy era, how the master

295
00:14:27.539 --> 00:14:32.100
is the alternative to the doctor, and in this time, the brigade is

296
00:14:32.100 --> 00:14:32.460
the wife.

297
00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:35.879
Very true.

298
00:14:35.940 --> 00:14:37.980
He leaves her at home and she gets moaney.

299
00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:40.620
Does that mean that Joe was just a bit on the side?

300
00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:41.100
Yeah.

301
00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:41.820
Oh, yeah.

302
00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:44.279
But we're talking about fiction.

303
00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:45.899
We are.

304
00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:46.559
We are.

305
00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:50.220
So I just think it's so delicious to have his companion being

306
00:14:50.220 --> 00:14:51.179
actually his wife.

307
00:14:51.179 --> 00:14:54.360
And she's so wonderfully portrayed.

308
00:14:54.419 --> 00:14:57.059
I think she's the best performance.

309
00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:59.580
It's super transgressive, actually, and you can actually see the

310
00:14:59.580 --> 00:15:03.419
doctor slightly shocked that, you know, the master's boning his

311
00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:07.259
companion is clearly kind of the sort of subtext of the beginning

312
00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:09.600
of sound of drums.

313
00:15:09.659 --> 00:15:12.360
And the doctor's actually quite shocked that the master has a wife

314
00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:14.580
and that is kind of... genitalia.

315
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:15.480
That's right.

316
00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:18.179
But she is amazing.

317
00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:23.580
Like she is fabulously fabulously demented and increasingly so.

318
00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:28.620
And she's got that weird posh girl kind of way of speaking, but

319
00:15:28.620 --> 00:15:33.899
she gets sort of gradually more kind of unfocused and unhinged.

320
00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:37.740
And the best moment is that sort of bizarre white girl dance that

321
00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:41.220
she does in the cliffhanger to the sound of drum song.

322
00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:43.679
She's super, super strange.

323
00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:46.679
You can imagine she would have just lost her grip on anything with

324
00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:47.940
a year trapped with that master.

325
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:48.779
Yeah.

326
00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:50.279
Well, I mean, it's said, isn't it?

327
00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:54.600
She learns that everything ends and that the world is utterly

328
00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:58.740
completely meaningless and that the destiny of humanity is

329
00:15:58.740 --> 00:16:00.600
essentially hell.

330
00:16:00.659 --> 00:16:02.580
And so she loses it.

331
00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:04.379
She becomes like the master.

332
00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:05.700
We talked about this last week.

333
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:10.799
And so there's a real kind of existential sort of philosophical

334
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:16.740
unmooring that happens to her, which sort of underlies this weird

335
00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:19.740
unfocused, strange performance.

336
00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:23.460
And the fact that, you know, we see her beaten as well.

337
00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:25.019
Well, I was going to say that earlier.

338
00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:26.820
I mean, Richard said he might marry Saxon.

339
00:16:26.940 --> 00:16:28.379
I said, well, be prepared for the shiner then.

340
00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:30.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah. avoiding him.

341
00:16:30.299 --> 00:16:33.779
Her performance in that last episode and just through looks and

342
00:16:33.779 --> 00:16:38.460
the body movement is, I think, just extraordinary, like how broken

343
00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:42.480
she actually is and the turmoil that she's going through, I just

344
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:45.299
can't praise Lucy Saxon enough.

345
00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:48.659
Yeah, she's just been rifling through Russell's lollies draw

346
00:16:48.659 --> 00:16:49.200
hasn't she?

347
00:16:49.259 --> 00:16:49.559
Really?

348
00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:52.500
I don't think there was much in that performance.

349
00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:56.279
You just, you know, I think I think the idea that she's kind of

350
00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:57.419
broken and mental.

351
00:16:57.539 --> 00:17:01.740
The doctor saves Francine from becoming like that by preventing

352
00:17:01.740 --> 00:17:05.460
her from killing the master in what I think is, you know

353
00:17:05.460 --> 00:17:07.680
absolutely Francine's high point of the season.

354
00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:08.759
I really love that.

355
00:17:08.819 --> 00:17:10.799
And the doctor relieves her of the gun.

356
00:17:10.859 --> 00:17:13.740
And then Lucy, who's broken anyway, shoots him.

357
00:17:13.740 --> 00:17:16.680
And there's no kind of moral consequence for her because she's

358
00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:21.359
already kind of signed off when it comes to any kind of morality, I

359
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:21.599
think.

360
00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:23.160
Peter?

361
00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:25.799
Dip into the box of delights, yeah?

362
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:28.859
I also like the signifier of the sanguine dress.

363
00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:30.839
She's in red, isn't she of the final?

364
00:17:30.900 --> 00:17:34.440
Isn't she in white for the 1st partter and then in red for the

365
00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:34.799
second?

366
00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:36.359
Snow White and Rose Red.

367
00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:37.259
Possibly.

368
00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:42.660
I like the fact that she's got a black eye is not highlighted.

369
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:46.619
No, they don't lampshade or draw attention to it in any way.

370
00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:49.740
And so it's possibly the most powerful image of the season.

371
00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:50.460
Yeah.

372
00:17:50.460 --> 00:17:51.299
Yeah.

373
00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:52.740
It's real proper evil.

374
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:54.299
It's not cartoonish evil.

375
00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:57.000
It's the kind of evil that happens on our street, you know.

376
00:17:57.059 --> 00:17:59.700
It's just left to kind of speak for itself.

377
00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:03.059
I don't think the, you know, the kids may not have noticed or

378
00:18:03.059 --> 00:18:06.000
understood what it meant, but yeah, it's truly horrible.

379
00:18:06.059 --> 00:18:07.980
All right, so I picked from the box.

380
00:18:07.980 --> 00:18:10.500
Series three, the master slash John Sim.

381
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:14.460
His general discussion about the master slash John Sim.

382
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:19.140
No, no, I think it's some kind of, it's a writing prompt for some

383
00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:20.460
slash fig.

384
00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:24.000
Which master we ask ourselves.

385
00:18:24.059 --> 00:18:25.740
So, Peter Watson.

386
00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:26.700
Clearly, it's missy.

387
00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:29.519
So, Peter, what do you think of John Sims performance?

388
00:18:29.579 --> 00:18:34.619
Um, I'm going to do your trick, Todd, because at the time I wasn't

389
00:18:34.619 --> 00:18:35.940
entirely sure about it.

390
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:39.299
It was such a radical departure from the way that the master's

391
00:18:39.299 --> 00:18:41.339
been portrayed in the past.

392
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:46.500
I've grown to like it more and more because, as Nathan always says

393
00:18:46.500 --> 00:18:48.660
they must should be the opposite of the doctor that they're

394
00:18:48.660 --> 00:18:49.019
facing.

395
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:53.400
And so see him as a perfect opponent for David Tennant's kind of

396
00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:57.539
high energy sort of hog the scene kind of thing.

397
00:18:57.599 --> 00:18:59.220
And, you know, he comes and he takes over the show.

398
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:01.920
And so it becomes the master show.

399
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:04.740
And I don't think you could have done that with a Delgado style

400
00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:05.160
mask.

401
00:19:05.220 --> 00:19:08.880
You need someone who had his own energy and kind of was able to co

402
00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:09.480
opt the show like that.

403
00:19:09.539 --> 00:19:13.440
And he'd also already had his own successful series.

404
00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:14.279
Yeah.

405
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:18.240
And he might argue more successful than David's secondary parts in

406
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:19.859
all the things he's done previously.

407
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:23.460
You can absolutely see him coming in and being the star of the

408
00:19:23.460 --> 00:19:23.759
series.

409
00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:26.759
Yeah, it has to be plausible and the fact that they've chosen the

410
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:31.619
star of the other big successful science fiction-ish series on

411
00:19:31.619 --> 00:19:32.400
TV.

412
00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:34.019
I think it's perfect casting.

413
00:19:34.140 --> 00:19:36.480
I still think Missy is probably better.

414
00:19:36.539 --> 00:19:41.160
And I think Missy works for the same reason that John Sim works

415
00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:45.000
that she is a credible alternative doctor and she is more fun than

416
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:45.539
the doctor.

417
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:48.900
She has the advantage of absolutely being more fun than Capaldi's

418
00:19:48.900 --> 00:19:49.079
doctor.

419
00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:51.000
It just should have been Rebecca Frant.

420
00:19:51.059 --> 00:19:55.140
It should have been anyone who faced who faced Capaldi off in the

421
00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:55.680
thick of it.

422
00:19:56.099 --> 00:19:58.200
Paul.

423
00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:00.299
Poor Rebecca Front.

424
00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:04.140
Yeah, well, Chris Addison's there being exploded by Missy, so

425
00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:05.460
that's a thing that happens.

426
00:20:06.180 --> 00:20:08.099
In reality.

427
00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:12.059
Look, I think the big moment for the master, the 1st time it

428
00:20:12.059 --> 00:20:15.359
happens is in claws of Axos, where the master is vastly more fun

429
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:18.240
than the doctor and he's working alongside unit, and that's what

430
00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:19.079
the master should be.

431
00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:21.960
The threat should be I'm going to take over the show.

432
00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:24.180
And I think John's him does an incredible job.

433
00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:26.099
I think he's really, really great.

434
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:30.599
And it is just him being the other tenant, you know.

435
00:20:30.660 --> 00:20:33.839
It's, look, I think there are maybe one or 2 scenes where I kind

436
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:35.819
of think I'm not quite sure that that came off.

437
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:39.779
But on the whole, I just think he's incredible.

438
00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:44.460
I agree with you and Peter. on this.

439
00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:46.920
I've said it before.

440
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:49.319
Like, I didn't like him at the time, but now I've completely

441
00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:52.740
changed my mind, and I think there is so much subtlety and

442
00:20:52.740 --> 00:20:55.200
undertones in his performance, and then he has those flashes of

443
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:59.579
over the top, which at times I don't think necessarily work, but

444
00:20:59.579 --> 00:21:02.579
it is to try and be the opposite polar opposite of David Tennant

445
00:21:02.579 --> 00:21:04.079
doing his shtick.

446
00:21:04.140 --> 00:21:07.859
And I really, really enjoyed him this time round.

447
00:21:07.859 --> 00:21:12.539
And it's his performance that holds that last 2 part, well, the

448
00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:13.859
last episode in particular together.

449
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:15.900
I'm really impressed.

450
00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:20.819
So when John Sim comes back um for series 10.

451
00:21:21.059 --> 00:21:24.359
I actually think it's a slightly better performance for being

452
00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:26.460
toned down a little bit.

453
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:27.480
I agree.

454
00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:31.019
And I'm not entirely sure why that is because it's got all the

455
00:21:31.019 --> 00:21:31.920
elements of his master.

456
00:21:31.980 --> 00:21:33.000
It isn't quite as manic.

457
00:21:33.059 --> 00:21:38.400
He's also got Gomez taking up 98% of the screen whenever he's in

458
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:38.759
the office.

459
00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:41.460
He's actually just, if you remember, back in the 70s and 80s, we

460
00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:44.220
had that little colour sidebar on the urge of early digital

461
00:21:44.220 --> 00:21:46.259
fracting of televisions.

462
00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:49.980
And that is actually John Sims in those scenes, because she's the

463
00:21:49.980 --> 00:21:51.420
entire rest of the production.

464
00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:55.799
Maybe it's also having a different doctor to act against and a

465
00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:56.279
different energy.

466
00:21:56.339 --> 00:21:59.099
You know, you see, I don't think I don't think the master is

467
00:21:59.099 --> 00:22:01.259
reacting against quality doctrine that he's reacting against

468
00:22:01.259 --> 00:22:01.859
Missy.

469
00:22:01.859 --> 00:22:04.740
And that's, yeah, so that's why he sort of slightly modified his

470
00:22:04.740 --> 00:22:05.099
performance.

471
00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:07.920
I think that Moffat doesn't quite...

472
00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:11.220
Well, he probably does get what made John seem work as the master

473
00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:14.579
but he's deciding not to use that in this episode and that's

474
00:22:14.579 --> 00:22:14.819
fine.

475
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:17.339
He's doing something. and highlight the change in missy.

476
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:18.960
You might need a slightly more generic master.

477
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:22.680
I also think that Moffat will not acknowledge anybody else's

478
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:23.339
work.

479
00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:25.079
I think that's true.

480
00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:27.779
I think he's super generous towards RTD.

481
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:31.859
I think he really likes RTD's work and I can see, particularly in

482
00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:37.799
series 5, that he is really self-consciously working within RTD's

483
00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:41.339
tradition clearing up some of RTD's plot holes, referencing things

484
00:22:41.339 --> 00:22:43.380
that have happened in RTDs, Doctor Who.

485
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:46.500
I think he's very keen to give credit where credit's due to RTD.

486
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:49.680
Isn't it interesting you say that because I've just pulled out all

487
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:51.720
in the family, Francine?

488
00:22:54.420 --> 00:23:00.900
And I do actually feel that if there is, in fact, um, I was going

489
00:23:00.900 --> 00:23:03.720
to see Laurel and Hardy, but I could actually just as easily say

490
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:10.500
Crawford and Davis, bet noir between Moffat and RTD, it is in the

491
00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:15.180
and get out your bingo card for FT, the apotheosis of, of, um, of

492
00:23:15.180 --> 00:23:18.660
Martha's mother, as I believe she's actually just Stephen Moffat

493
00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:23.279
and Russell's, being very naughty. in the writing of her with the

494
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:25.680
arched eyebrows and, you know, that pirly hair.

495
00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:26.640
The white powdery.

496
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:27.299
Scottish accent.

497
00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:28.859
Scottish accent.

498
00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:31.980
The fact that she completely loses and wants to destroy everything

499
00:23:31.980 --> 00:23:34.380
around her and then somehow manages to pull it all back together

500
00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:37.559
at the end of the at the end of the season without shooting

501
00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:38.039
anyone.

502
00:23:38.099 --> 00:23:43.259
No, it's definitely the scene is written as Moffat as RTD sees

503
00:23:43.259 --> 00:23:43.440
him.

504
00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:47.339
I think I want RT to, if I have my wish from this, if you know, say

505
00:23:47.339 --> 00:23:49.019
it 3 times and it'll be a real series.

506
00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:52.980
I want to see Vicious rebooted with Moffat and RTD in that tiny

507
00:23:52.980 --> 00:23:54.539
apartment bitching at each other.

508
00:23:55.980 --> 00:23:58.259
Chibnall lives across the hall.

509
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:03.539
Oh, in a fluffy slippers and pulling the bits of nylon balls off

510
00:24:03.539 --> 00:24:04.440
his card.

511
00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:05.519
Oh, it will be miserable.

512
00:24:05.579 --> 00:24:06.180
I can't wait.

513
00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:09.480
What else do we want to say about Francine?

514
00:24:09.539 --> 00:24:10.920
I think she's the linchpin of this series.

515
00:24:10.980 --> 00:24:16.319
I think she's, she is actually the face of, um, I wouldn't say

516
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:19.140
conservatism because she doesn't strike me as conservative, but

517
00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:24.359
she is the face of modern median Britain, the middle, middle

518
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:29.460
thinking of the middle-class of the middle purpose of the, I'm

519
00:24:29.460 --> 00:24:30.779
neither this nor that.

520
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:34.019
I can see the respectful side of all arguments, but underneath is

521
00:24:34.019 --> 00:24:39.480
the seething fury of misappropriation of truths and that anger

522
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:41.160
that nothing has actually turned out.

523
00:24:41.220 --> 00:24:45.480
She's the post-Blair middle class that was promised everything and

524
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:46.440
has received nothing.

525
00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:50.039
And I actually find it also very interesting, that it's a black

526
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:52.680
family because we have the Obama syndrome.

527
00:24:52.740 --> 00:24:53.819
Wouldn't that make a great film?

528
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:57.299
But again, the promise of neoliberal loveliness and bloody nothing

529
00:24:57.299 --> 00:25:00.420
has really come out of it except more destruction.

530
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:01.980
You could say that's not his fault.

531
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:05.700
However, we also know that the Obama administration was in favour

532
00:25:05.700 --> 00:25:09.539
of doing things that are entirely harmful to the economy and to

533
00:25:09.539 --> 00:25:12.119
the people, such as fracking and all the rest of it anyway.

534
00:25:12.180 --> 00:25:14.339
And they did nothing for the Chicago Blacks.

535
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:16.980
And I know this because I've heard these people talk about it.

536
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:20.519
So I think that Francine is actually there to tell us that it's

537
00:25:20.519 --> 00:25:20.940
not working.

538
00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.460
So again, it comes back to Morphin.

539
00:25:24.539 --> 00:25:26.400
Nathan, Peter?

540
00:25:27.420 --> 00:25:30.779
Well, I mean, that's a really interesting reading.

541
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:32.039
I hadn't actually thought about a lot of that.

542
00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:38.339
Can I just say on a more pure art level, that I went to the 50th

543
00:25:38.339 --> 00:25:43.319
anniversary convention in 2013, and they had a Mothers of RTD

544
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:50.880
panel where they did with Camille and Anjoa and Donna's mum whose

545
00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:52.440
name escapes Jackie King.

546
00:25:52.500 --> 00:25:53.640
Yep, Jackie King.

547
00:25:53.700 --> 00:25:55.559
And it was amazing.

548
00:25:55.619 --> 00:25:59.519
That is absolutely, you know, my, yeah.

549
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:00.480
Ultimately.

550
00:26:00.539 --> 00:26:01.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

551
00:26:01.140 --> 00:26:02.819
I didn't even know this happened.

552
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.160
The listener can't say this, but Nathan has actually just turned

553
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:06.180
into a Catherine wheel.

554
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:08.279
Binny, right now.

555
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:12.720
And I think she sometimes gets unfairly overlooked between, you

556
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:16.559
know, obviously Camille is a goddess and Jackie's amazing.

557
00:26:16.619 --> 00:26:20.160
I think Francine is amazing in her own way, but because she's not

558
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:23.279
instantly likeable because she's had kind of, you know, she's got

559
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:25.140
a bit of a tough backstory.

560
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:27.779
You know, she's trying to keep her family together, her husband's

561
00:26:27.779 --> 00:26:29.880
left over sort of, you know, the young blonde.

562
00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:32.640
And, you know, there's things which have gone wrong in her life

563
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:33.839
and she's bitter about them.

564
00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:35.279
I'm right.

565
00:26:35.339 --> 00:26:38.759
I also think too, you know, there's that angry black lady thing

566
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:45.240
where we're much more likely to we're much more likely to have a

567
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:48.299
kind of negative reaction to black women who are cross.

568
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:51.119
And it's a sort of famous meme and stuff.

569
00:26:51.180 --> 00:26:53.579
And so she comes in, she's instantly annoyed.

570
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:55.140
She's annoyed with Clive.

571
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:57.299
She's really brisk and businesslike.

572
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:00.660
She doesn't like the doctor and is initially suspicious of him.

573
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:05.099
And it's obvious that Russell is toying with us.

574
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:07.380
He knows how much we loved Camille.

575
00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:09.539
And here's another mum.

576
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:13.079
Maybe we get another great mum and she, I think she's wonderful.

577
00:27:13.140 --> 00:27:17.819
I do think that later on in the season when it all just becomes

578
00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:21.900
about, I'm worried about Martha being in danger, that that's a

579
00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:24.539
little bit tiresome and we'll see more of that next year.

580
00:27:24.599 --> 00:27:28.799
But I still love that moment, that fabulous sort of film noir

581
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:31.440
moment in the cage with her and her husband.

582
00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:34.740
Plotting to kill the master and kissing one another and stuff.

583
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:37.380
I think she is, she's really something.

584
00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:41.460
And I would have given my right arm to be at that panel, Peter.

585
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:48.059
I want to thank Nathan for helping me rehabilitate Francine.

586
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:50.880
I used to just go around saying how much I hated her.

587
00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:53.160
Why did you feel like that at the time then?

588
00:27:53.220 --> 00:27:57.839
I just, you know, she was just so horrible to the doctor out of

589
00:27:57.839 --> 00:27:58.380
nowhere.

590
00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:00.059
I've wanted to be her for years.

591
00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:04.500
But also her irritation is amusing.

592
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:07.380
I mean, it's written to be funny, the way that she chafes against

593
00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:10.140
the doctor and that, and it is, her gritted teeth kind of

594
00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:11.279
performance is really funny.

595
00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:12.720
There's that moment.

596
00:28:12.779 --> 00:28:15.599
She's super vulnerable where David Tennant rushes out of the room

597
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:20.579
in Lazarus experiment and bumps her and knocks her drink over, but

598
00:28:20.579 --> 00:28:24.000
he actually hits her quite hard and she's kind of a bit like she's

599
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:25.980
physically shaken by it.

600
00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:28.500
And it is just that doctor.

601
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:34.259
He's so oblivious and he's such, like, he needs Francine to smack

602
00:28:34.259 --> 00:28:35.759
him in the face, I reckon.

603
00:28:35.819 --> 00:28:39.240
And she responds like any normal person would to that kind of, you

604
00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:41.519
know, bubbling ball of energy coming true.

605
00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:42.720
It's just like, stop for a second.

606
00:28:42.779 --> 00:28:43.019
Stop.

607
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:43.259
What?

608
00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:43.799
Stop.

609
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:48.420
And it is it is being the daughter's boyfriend. you know, and

610
00:28:48.420 --> 00:28:51.960
having to kind of face up to the mother the next morning after

611
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:56.220
they've been out all night or whatever and putting the doctor in

612
00:28:56.220 --> 00:29:00.299
that position, where he's absolutely incapable of properly dealing

613
00:29:00.299 --> 00:29:03.420
with it, where Francine kind of wins that interaction.

614
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:04.259
I think is wonderful.

615
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:09.000
I've seen a lot more subtly in her performance and certainly 2nd

616
00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:11.579
guessing, actually working with the Saxon people.

617
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:14.940
And by the end of it, I really felt for her.

618
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.240
And it's a shame in a way that you don't get to see a follow-up

619
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:21.480
story to see what the interaction with the doctor and her would

620
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:24.720
actually be like after the, you know, the events at the end of the

621
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:25.019
season.

622
00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:29.940
You get that begrudging look, you know, of, yes, we know where

623
00:29:29.940 --> 00:29:31.799
we're at, you know, with each other.

624
00:29:31.859 --> 00:29:35.640
And I actually think it's one of the, I think it's a wonderful

625
00:29:35.640 --> 00:29:36.119
look.

626
00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:37.799
Like it just sums up everything.

627
00:29:37.980 --> 00:29:38.819
Yep, I respect you.

628
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:40.859
We know where we're at with things.

629
00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:43.619
I think it's a shame in some ways that, you know, when she goes

630
00:29:43.619 --> 00:29:46.740
into the doctor's arms in that in that final episode.

631
00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:51.420
It's so brief because we've got to then focus on John Sim.

632
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:54.359
But I've come to appreciate her performance.

633
00:29:54.420 --> 00:29:57.599
I'm never going to love her, but I love her.

634
00:29:58.500 --> 00:30:03.539
I have come not to hate her and I like her a lot more and I can

635
00:30:03.539 --> 00:30:05.460
see where they're going with the character.

636
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:08.339
I kind of wish that we'd had a couple of episodes build up rather

637
00:30:08.339 --> 00:30:10.140
than just in the focus in the one episode.

638
00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:13.680
I do find personally, it's a bit forced.

639
00:30:13.740 --> 00:30:16.559
I find that it's not perhaps organic enough.

640
00:30:16.619 --> 00:30:21.299
But that's the gift of putting truly great performers into median

641
00:30:21.299 --> 00:30:23.759
but, you know, significant roles.

642
00:30:23.819 --> 00:30:27.359
So again, she's tertiary to the drama, being the parent, but she's

643
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:28.799
an absolutely linch pin through this.

644
00:30:28.859 --> 00:30:33.839
And if you want to say it, perhaps she's Martha Superego or

645
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:37.079
Martha's consciousness or Martha's practical self.

646
00:30:37.140 --> 00:30:40.140
Martha's adult self, whereas Martha is still the puppy.

647
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:43.619
So Martha, at her current stage, you know, a personal evolution is

648
00:30:43.619 --> 00:30:47.880
more like the tenant doctor, but who she actually is at core is

649
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:48.299
her mother.

650
00:30:48.420 --> 00:30:51.660
And possibly a little bit of Clive is the playfulness.

651
00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:54.779
But no, no, I honestly think she's the most significant, if you

652
00:30:54.779 --> 00:30:56.819
look at the arc of the companion in this.

653
00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:01.680
It's the mother that gives us the mettle of who this person

654
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:02.640
actually is.

655
00:31:02.700 --> 00:31:07.559
And because Martha herself, we've said it, is not, and I've also

656
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:09.960
said this to begin with, and it may not have been kind, but she

657
00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:13.740
doesn't have the experience yet as an actress to necessarily carry

658
00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:14.579
the whole series.

659
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:15.599
And Russell knew that.

660
00:31:15.660 --> 00:31:19.559
So she is, in fact, a Gestalt of all the parts of her family.

661
00:31:19.619 --> 00:31:21.779
And it is a shame that we didn't get to see more of them.

662
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:24.480
I would have been happy with Francine in every single episode of

663
00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:24.900
Nathan.

664
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:25.380
How do you feel?

665
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:26.579
Yep, no, please.

666
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:28.319
Well, we got a bonus episode of her as a cat.

667
00:31:37.380 --> 00:31:39.359
This one's for all of us, I think.

668
00:31:39.420 --> 00:31:44.160
So we want to talk about our favourite guest stars for the

669
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:44.759
season.

670
00:31:45.059 --> 00:31:48.599
So I might just have to go for the 2 obvious ones.

671
00:31:48.660 --> 00:31:49.259
Okay.

672
00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:54.000
And I think it's Derek Jacoby, who is obviously sort of massive

673
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:59.220
overcasting for Doctor Who. although he's absolutely not unhappy

674
00:31:59.220 --> 00:32:02.160
to slum at in genre television, as he said many times.

675
00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:04.740
And I think he's really terrific.

676
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:08.220
I think he's perfect as a way of introducing the master, but he's

677
00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:08.819
not just that.

678
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:10.799
He's a really great character on his own.

679
00:32:10.859 --> 00:32:13.920
I think he's performance in utopia is spectacular.

680
00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:17.819
And then his performance as the master is also spectacular.

681
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:19.680
So I'm going to go for Derek Jacobi.

682
00:32:19.740 --> 00:32:22.380
It's partly emotional resonance of utopia that you lose that

683
00:32:22.380 --> 00:32:23.099
master.

684
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:24.180
Yeah, yeah.

685
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:26.519
Yeah, who we offer was a future doctor.

686
00:32:26.579 --> 00:32:28.019
Well, of course, you know, part of me did.

687
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:29.759
So it's an alternate doctor or, you know.

688
00:32:29.819 --> 00:32:32.819
I think we talked at the time that there'd beat enough spoilers

689
00:32:32.819 --> 00:32:35.759
that I was pretty certain that going...

690
00:32:35.819 --> 00:32:38.460
It's hard to remember back, but like a gut feeling, we all knew

691
00:32:38.460 --> 00:32:38.819
didn't we?

692
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:39.539
Yeah, yeah.

693
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:42.900
But and he'd played the master in the curse of Paul Cornell.

694
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:44.519
Yeah, in the curse of Paul Cornell, quiet.

695
00:32:44.579 --> 00:32:46.559
And so we'd already sort of seen that.

696
00:32:46.619 --> 00:32:50.039
So he would be my favourite male guest star and my favourite

697
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:53.460
female guest star would have to be Jessica Hines as well.

698
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:57.420
Well, I just think she's incredible and it's an amazing bit of

699
00:32:57.420 --> 00:32:57.960
casting.

700
00:32:58.019 --> 00:33:01.559
There's no surprise that Russell will go back to her next year

701
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:05.339
because she's a hugely important person in the doctor's life.

702
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:08.039
She gets to critique the doctor's morality.

703
00:33:08.099 --> 00:33:11.099
And it's a really strong performance, a really likeable

704
00:33:11.099 --> 00:33:13.319
performance, and we get to be with her for 2 episodes.

705
00:33:13.380 --> 00:33:14.339
I think she was great.

706
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:14.819
That's interesting.

707
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.819
I wish it does, sorry, Richard, when she does come back in end of

708
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:20.940
time, it's possibly the single most affecting scene in the entire

709
00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:21.180
story.

710
00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:23.160
I'd completely forgotten that happened.

711
00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:24.900
I've watched it again yet.

712
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:26.220
Not that affecting them.

713
00:33:26.460 --> 00:33:28.140
I guess not.

714
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:30.960
Carrie Mulligan, Carrie Mulligan, Carrie Mulligan.

715
00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:31.380
There you go.

716
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:32.339
Big finish series.

717
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:36.119
But we can't get her because she was already too big and popular

718
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:37.619
even right after shooting this.

719
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:40.980
She did an education straight after this. which is an amazing film

720
00:33:40.980 --> 00:33:44.640
set in the 60th with, I think, column Firth, because it's always

721
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:46.500
got column Firth. doesn't matter if it isn't him, does it?

722
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:47.160
They're all the same.

723
00:33:47.579 --> 00:33:49.859
Sorry, boys, but you are.

724
00:33:50.339 --> 00:33:53.220
Hugh Grant, they're all just Hugh Grant, aren't they?

725
00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:55.500
Isn't they just splitting him up on a petri dish and make lots of

726
00:33:55.500 --> 00:33:55.680
him?

727
00:33:55.740 --> 00:33:57.660
So yeah, Carrie Mulligan.

728
00:33:57.779 --> 00:34:00.599
What a shame, but she just makes that whole thing glow.

729
00:34:00.660 --> 00:34:02.099
I agree with you.

730
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:06.960
She is my pick because without that performance of Sally Sparrow.

731
00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:10.260
If that had fallen flat, then that episode just put into a being

732
00:34:10.260 --> 00:34:10.739
sold.

733
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:12.059
We were really lucky to have.

734
00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:12.539
Yeah.

735
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:18.659
I think Stephen Moffa has type when he writes very strong women.

736
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:21.780
He essentially writes the same character every time and they live

737
00:34:21.780 --> 00:34:23.579
or die on the strength of the performance.

738
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:26.579
And so she is the apotheosis of this.

739
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:30.119
She's so warm and she's actually quite a cool character.

740
00:34:30.179 --> 00:34:34.199
She's not, she doesn't respond to people around her in warm and

741
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:36.300
empathetic ways in a lot of the time.

742
00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:39.000
But Kerry brings so much to that.

743
00:34:39.059 --> 00:34:42.059
So you compare that to say, you know, I don't think Jenna Coleman

744
00:34:42.059 --> 00:34:45.599
was particularly good companion as Clara.

745
00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:48.000
It's essentially the same kind of character, but you get an

746
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:51.539
actress who's very warm playing Sally Sparrow, an actress who's

747
00:34:51.539 --> 00:34:53.099
not as warm playing.

748
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:57.420
There are gradations in Mulligan's performance and subtleties.

749
00:34:57.480 --> 00:35:00.059
And it's just, it's the Rig principle. what Diana Rigg did.

750
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:01.139
You just work with your eyes.

751
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:02.699
Hartnell did it as well.

752
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:03.420
Just use your eyes.

753
00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:05.820
Don't think about any other part of your face or your body, and

754
00:35:05.820 --> 00:35:06.960
everything else will follow through.

755
00:35:07.019 --> 00:35:08.099
It's an actor's tick.

756
00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:09.119
She does it perfectly.

757
00:35:09.179 --> 00:35:10.440
Crawford did it actually.

758
00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:14.039
It's kind of, yeah, it's kind of called the Crawford principle.

759
00:35:14.099 --> 00:35:16.079
But it really works.

760
00:35:16.139 --> 00:35:16.800
Yeah.

761
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:21.059
And Coleman, I guess, was, yeah, different motivations as an actor

762
00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:21.599
but you're right.

763
00:35:21.659 --> 00:35:24.539
I never felt, I felt all the tricks, you can feel Coleman's

764
00:35:24.539 --> 00:35:27.000
brilliance for getting ahead of ourselves, but technically and all

765
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:29.400
the rest of it, she's a fine performer and there's so much going

766
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:33.119
on in her head, but Mulligan, just warmth and heart.

767
00:35:33.179 --> 00:35:34.619
And you can see who's going to be the star.

768
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:38.039
Well, basically, you've got Stephen Mothat bringing his A game and

769
00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:40.199
Blink is not just a science fiction story.

770
00:35:40.260 --> 00:35:42.960
It's a romantic comedy as well.

771
00:35:43.019 --> 00:35:44.159
And an annual story.

772
00:35:44.219 --> 00:35:45.539
Exactly.

773
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:49.559
And so you've got someone who will go on to be an absolute A

774
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:52.739
Lister in Hollywood headlining a romantic comedy for Doctor Who.

775
00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:56.219
And so you get that scene in the hospital room.

776
00:35:56.280 --> 00:36:01.260
It's the same rain, which is so heartbreakingly brilliant and sort

777
00:36:01.260 --> 00:36:05.039
of based on those 2 performances that it transcends Doctor Who

778
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:05.219
really.

779
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:06.659
And, you know, a lot of let's down to carry.

780
00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:13.679
Did you watch that dire Brobdignagian hurtling juggernaut

781
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:18.179
otherwise known as the Great Gatsby, and see...

782
00:36:18.179 --> 00:36:18.840
Is she in that?

783
00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:21.420
She's she's, um, she plays Daisy.

784
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:24.539
Right, right. in that terrible. everything that man does is a

785
00:36:24.539 --> 00:36:25.079
terrible film.

786
00:36:25.139 --> 00:36:26.219
I can't say his name out loud.

787
00:36:26.460 --> 00:36:31.500
But I just watching her thinking, well, it's dear little Sally

788
00:36:31.500 --> 00:36:33.840
Sparrow in the wrong place again at the wrong time.

789
00:36:34.019 --> 00:36:36.900
We talked a little bit about Jessica Hines as well.

790
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:39.300
Can I just make honourable mentions from that story for Harry

791
00:36:39.300 --> 00:36:42.539
Lloyd, who's amazing, and Rebecca Staten, mother of mine.

792
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:44.219
They're both.

793
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:45.539
Isn't she gorgeous?

794
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:45.960
Yes.

795
00:36:46.019 --> 00:36:49.440
From memory, I think we do spend a bit of time talking about Harry

796
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:55.019
Lloyd's performance in our episodes because it's very strange and

797
00:36:55.019 --> 00:36:56.519
very, very well judged.

798
00:36:56.579 --> 00:37:00.900
It just teeters on the brink of going horribly wrong and doesn't

799
00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:01.860
fall over the edge.

800
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:06.239
And that one moment where he has a demented reading of some lines

801
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:10.019
when he calls for the scarecrows and just one word, soldiers, and

802
00:37:10.019 --> 00:37:13.679
the way he delivers it over his shoulder, this weird pitch is

803
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:14.159
amazing.

804
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:20.699
All right, so I've just drawn out of the box series three.

805
00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:26.760
The favourite stories, improved stories, stories that perhaps

806
00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:28.260
didn't quite work.

807
00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:30.420
I'm going to start.

808
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:32.880
So my favourite, obviously, is blink.

809
00:37:32.940 --> 00:37:35.940
I think it's astounding and I was really surprised that the sound

810
00:37:35.940 --> 00:37:38.159
of drums is the runner-up for the season for me.

811
00:37:38.219 --> 00:37:39.539
I just think it's magnificent.

812
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:42.300
They are the 2 standouts for me for the year.

813
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:47.699
In my honourable mentions, up to the family, a blood episode.

814
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:50.639
My favourite episode is actually the Shakespeare code, which I

815
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:51.900
just enjoy thoroughly.

816
00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:54.599
I think there's a really good standard throughout the season.

817
00:37:54.659 --> 00:37:56.159
I mentioned ages ago.

818
00:37:56.219 --> 00:37:58.019
I think the premiere surprised me.

819
00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:01.440
Every time I watch the Lazarus experiment, I enjoy it more and

820
00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:01.619
more.

821
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:06.239
At the other end of the barrel, the dalek 2 parter is the one that

822
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:08.820
I like the least, but that's not to say I didn't like it.

823
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:10.800
I think the Daleks are good.

824
00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:17.099
I think, Cholula and Laslow and Solomon, are great performances.

825
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:19.139
I like the ideas in there.

826
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:21.960
It's just it just feels very, the structure of it feels very

827
00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:24.300
clunky and weighed it down for me and I just didn't connect with

828
00:38:24.300 --> 00:38:24.480
it.

829
00:38:24.539 --> 00:38:28.679
So, but having said that, I previously considered it to be an

830
00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:31.619
absolute fear her, but I don't consider that anymore.

831
00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:32.880
I see a lot of positives in it.

832
00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:36.179
So, you know, if it's the lull in the season, you know, that's

833
00:38:36.179 --> 00:38:38.880
okay. you know, that's where I stand.

834
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:43.679
I think human nature and family blood are the best of the season.

835
00:38:43.739 --> 00:38:48.719
There's just an emotional resonance to those episodes and an

836
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:52.920
atmosphere to them that you don't often find in Doctor Who, very

837
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:53.460
sober.

838
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:56.940
Because it's an important thing happening to the doctor.

839
00:38:57.059 --> 00:39:01.739
And prior to Stephen Moffat, episodes don't obviously focus on the

840
00:39:01.739 --> 00:39:02.639
doctor very much.

841
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:06.480
The doctor sort of comes in and is an agent of change.

842
00:39:06.539 --> 00:39:08.940
The episodes are not about the doctor, whereas that definitely

843
00:39:08.940 --> 00:39:09.420
is.

844
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:13.679
And also it's got an added cachet because it was obviously based

845
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:16.739
on human nature, the new adventure novel, which was already a

846
00:39:16.739 --> 00:39:17.760
beloved novel.

847
00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:18.659
So it had a lot to live up to.

848
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:20.340
See, I really like them.

849
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:22.500
I love blink, obviously, there's a lot going on there.

850
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:23.699
Utopia is amazing.

851
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:27.119
I think I've said to Nathan at some point that he and I both

852
00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:30.659
really like utopia because if you've got that bleak 7 gene where

853
00:39:30.659 --> 00:39:34.800
you quite enjoy kind of primitives wandering around on the surface

854
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:36.900
of a planet, then you are likely to enjoy that.

855
00:39:37.019 --> 00:39:38.519
And I'm with Todd as well.

856
00:39:38.579 --> 00:39:41.039
I think Shakespeare code is better than people give it credit

857
00:39:41.039 --> 00:39:41.400
for.

858
00:39:41.460 --> 00:39:45.000
It sort of gets a bit of a panning sometimes or people are muted

859
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.079
in their praise, whereas actually it's just a rollicking, good, fun

860
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:52.440
and quite, quite interesting adventure.

861
00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:54.480
It is so much fun.

862
00:39:54.539 --> 00:39:57.119
The only thing that bothered me with Shakespeare code was the

863
00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:00.239
central casting of Dean Lennox Kelly.

864
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:01.500
Yeah, it didn't work for me.

865
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:02.579
Everything else is great.

866
00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:05.280
And a great season opener as well.

867
00:40:05.340 --> 00:40:08.159
People don't often talk about Smith and Jones, but you know, what

868
00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:08.699
a cool episode.

869
00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:10.079
It's very solid.

870
00:40:10.139 --> 00:40:13.559
I think it's extraordinarily well written, having to introduce so

871
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:15.179
many new elements and a whole new family.

872
00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:18.300
And it's the only time that he actually has to introduce a home

873
00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:21.059
besides, obviously, roads.

874
00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:23.940
You know, the other two, he's got elements that are already in

875
00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:25.260
place or we've seen before.

876
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:28.920
I actually think in terms of the actual intricacy of the writing

877
00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:29.639
of that episode.

878
00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:30.780
I think it's extraordinary.

879
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:34.500
It may even be better than next year's opener in terms of the I

880
00:40:34.500 --> 00:40:34.860
know.

881
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:37.019
You know, I'm throwing that out there in terms of the actual

882
00:40:37.019 --> 00:40:37.500
writing.

883
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:40.679
I'm not saying I enjoy it more than next year's, but there's just

884
00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:43.199
something about it that I actually thought there's something in

885
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:43.980
this episode, really.

886
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:49.199
I am delighted to hear love for RTDs series openers because too

887
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:52.619
often they're sort of dismissed as sort of romps or lightweight or

888
00:40:52.619 --> 00:40:55.500
whatever, but I think they're all just fantastic.

889
00:40:55.619 --> 00:40:56.460
I love them all.

890
00:40:56.519 --> 00:40:59.940
They are often romps and they are often lightweight and they are

891
00:40:59.940 --> 00:41:00.300
amazing.

892
00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:01.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

893
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:01.980
Yeah.

894
00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:03.780
I want lightweight romps in Doctor Who.

895
00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:04.440
Yeah, absolutely.

896
00:41:04.619 --> 00:41:07.739
My favourite episode of the season is still gridlock.

897
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:12.840
I think it is amazing and it has so much to say and it is Russell

898
00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:17.099
sort of going full allegorical and just raising all sorts of

899
00:41:17.099 --> 00:41:17.820
interesting issues.

900
00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:21.780
It has so much going for it and it has my favourite moment of the

901
00:41:21.780 --> 00:41:26.460
season, which is the singing of the old rugged cross, which I'm

902
00:41:26.460 --> 00:41:29.880
going to stop talking about now because I'm already tearing up a

903
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:30.059
bit.

904
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:31.199
I think it's beautiful.

905
00:41:31.260 --> 00:41:32.820
It's a great piece of work.

906
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:34.800
That was like me watching 42.

907
00:41:34.980 --> 00:41:36.599
I'm old and rugged and I was very cross.

908
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:42.360
Richard, are there any other episodes for you that stand out?

909
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:45.659
Oh, that's still a draw dialects in Manhattan.

910
00:41:45.780 --> 00:41:47.579
I really do.

911
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:50.820
It makes my heart jump in the same way that the other ones do.

912
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:54.599
Isn't it nice that he's given something for all the kaleidoscopic

913
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:57.719
colours in fanboyness or fan personness?

914
00:41:57.780 --> 00:42:00.179
All of us came up with different answers to that question.

915
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:01.260
I think that's wonderful.

916
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:02.280
Just awesome.

917
00:42:11.340 --> 00:42:14.880
Series three, David Tennant and Freema Edgeman.

918
00:42:14.940 --> 00:42:16.920
Ooh, I think that was a Todd favourite.

919
00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:20.400
No, I want I want Petey to get a snog Mario boy.

920
00:42:20.460 --> 00:42:23.039
I haven't won yet, but would you like me to choose again?

921
00:42:23.099 --> 00:42:24.599
Let's discuss these two.

922
00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:27.719
Okay, Freeman's amazing.

923
00:42:27.780 --> 00:42:31.440
She's got a lot of charisma and she makes mouth work.

924
00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:34.980
Martha is not a particularly well-written character in episodes

925
00:42:34.980 --> 00:42:36.300
that Russell doesn't rise.

926
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:37.920
She gets a bit lost in the mix.

927
00:42:37.980 --> 00:42:39.179
That's really good point.

928
00:42:39.300 --> 00:42:42.300
Yeah, Russell comes back to her and kind of, you know, bolsters

929
00:42:42.300 --> 00:42:42.599
her.

930
00:42:42.659 --> 00:42:45.960
But yeah, she's kind of written as generic companion.

931
00:42:46.019 --> 00:42:47.219
And I think...

932
00:42:47.219 --> 00:42:49.320
Or dispossessed girlfriend.

933
00:42:49.380 --> 00:42:52.920
Yeah, she kind of gets stuck in that role a little bit.

934
00:42:52.980 --> 00:42:55.320
And so she gets kind of in scenes.

935
00:42:55.380 --> 00:42:57.659
She gets those kind of, you know, looking forlorn in the

936
00:42:57.659 --> 00:42:58.800
background and you don't want that.

937
00:42:58.860 --> 00:43:03.539
I think the problem, you know, there isn't really a problem, but

938
00:43:03.539 --> 00:43:07.320
as it were, the problem is that you get someone like Billy Piper

939
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:10.199
and Catherine Tate, and they are able to pitch a performance

940
00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:12.300
that's a little bit more than naturalistic.

941
00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:15.239
It's kind of very slightly heightened and it reaches that Doctor

942
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:16.440
Who level that you need.

943
00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:17.460
Liz Sladen did it.

944
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:19.739
Katie Manning did it back in the old days.

945
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:21.900
I don't think Freema manages to do that.

946
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:23.579
I think she's a fine actress.

947
00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:26.880
I think she's very charismatic, but she doesn't quite, she

948
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:29.340
sometimes gets lost in the scenes a little bit.

949
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:33.900
So if a scene is good for Martha, then Freema is brilliant in it.

950
00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:37.019
If a scene is not good for Martha, I don't know if she brings it

951
00:43:37.019 --> 00:43:39.659
light in a way that Catherine Tate lights up every scene.

952
00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:42.900
I think that's a really good observation.

953
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:48.599
I think because David's so big and so over the top, in a way that

954
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:51.659
sometimes, you know, crosses the line into being irritating.

955
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:54.840
She does tend to get it a little bit swamped.

956
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:58.559
What I remember most of all is when she was cast.

957
00:43:58.619 --> 00:44:02.639
There was a video from her trailer that was put up on the internet

958
00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:09.659
and just the sheer joy and enthusiasm, her excitement about being

959
00:44:09.659 --> 00:44:11.579
in Doctor Who was so lovely.

960
00:44:11.579 --> 00:44:15.059
And that does come across in her performance.

961
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:17.820
As you said, Peter, she's so charismatic.

962
00:44:17.940 --> 00:44:19.980
She's so, so likeable.

963
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:23.820
And there are real moments when she gets to be a bit cheeky or a

964
00:44:23.820 --> 00:44:27.900
bit snarky, which happens all too rarely, I think, for maybe the

965
00:44:27.900 --> 00:44:29.460
reasons that you outlined, Peter.

966
00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:31.139
She's just great.

967
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:34.199
She's just great and she does get lost in the mix.

968
00:44:34.260 --> 00:44:35.460
I think it is a shame.

969
00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:42.300
She is kind of surrounded by 2 incredible companions in, you know

970
00:44:42.300 --> 00:44:44.699
Rose and and Donna.

971
00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:48.659
And so she does tend to get overlooked, but that is an injustice, I

972
00:44:48.659 --> 00:44:48.780
think.

973
00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:49.320
She's wonderful.

974
00:44:49.380 --> 00:44:51.239
Yes, you're absolutely right.

975
00:44:51.300 --> 00:44:53.519
She gets overshadowed by David Tennon in some scenes.

976
00:44:53.579 --> 00:44:56.219
If you get scenes where she's with other characters, like her

977
00:44:56.219 --> 00:44:57.659
scenes with Jenny in human nature.

978
00:44:57.719 --> 00:44:58.619
She's great.

979
00:44:58.679 --> 00:45:01.440
Like, absolutely holds her own to really good.

980
00:45:01.500 --> 00:45:04.139
I just, yeah, I think there's something about a style of

981
00:45:04.139 --> 00:45:05.400
performance that's required.

982
00:45:05.460 --> 00:45:08.280
And can I just add that I know some people who worked on the

983
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:11.639
production team and unanimously, they say that Freema is an

984
00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:13.920
absolutely delightful person and that counts for a lot.

985
00:45:14.039 --> 00:45:17.579
It really does, because you're under so much pressure just being

986
00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:18.360
yourself.

987
00:45:18.420 --> 00:45:21.539
So it just shows that, you know, she's born to play the part.

988
00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:24.420
What's tenant seem like on set?

989
00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:26.639
Oh, I think everybody in life stated.

990
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:27.179
Yeah.

991
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:27.360
Yeah.

992
00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:29.940
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

993
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:33.719
I was just blown away by her performance, watching it this time

994
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:38.099
through and I reiterate that I think she's terribly underrated.

995
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:40.440
There's just a warmth and there's a cheekiness.

996
00:45:40.500 --> 00:45:45.059
I think it's such a shame that Martha is laboured with the

997
00:45:45.059 --> 00:45:49.320
unrequited love, which by the time it gets into the Dalek 2

998
00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:49.739
parter.

999
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:51.360
I dont want another conversation about it.

1000
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:54.239
And they go away from that from few episodes, which is great.

1001
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:59.340
I dislike the way in which the doctor treats Martha for a lot of

1002
00:45:59.340 --> 00:46:01.019
the season, certainly early on.

1003
00:46:01.139 --> 00:46:06.420
And perhaps that respect that the doctor should be giving to that

1004
00:46:06.420 --> 00:46:08.639
character you don't really see until perhaps when she turns up

1005
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:10.019
next season.

1006
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:14.639
David's performance. again, I really enjoy him in the moment.

1007
00:46:14.699 --> 00:46:19.139
There's some shtick that he does at certain times perhaps towards

1008
00:46:19.139 --> 00:46:22.980
the end of the season where it does get irritating.

1009
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:25.920
But he's certainly confident.

1010
00:46:25.980 --> 00:46:28.800
I mean, we're now in a season where we've got nobody from season

1011
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:29.219
one.

1012
00:46:29.460 --> 00:46:34.980
So the show is his own to do with, and I enjoy them together

1013
00:46:34.980 --> 00:46:39.480
immensely, and I enjoy him when I'm watching him 95% of the time.

1014
00:46:39.539 --> 00:46:42.360
And he definitely tapped into something because I think this was

1015
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:46.440
the season where he absolutely took off with the viewing public.

1016
00:46:46.500 --> 00:46:49.260
He was very popular in his 1st season. ratings were good.

1017
00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:53.579
But I think in this season, he somehow transcended that and became

1018
00:46:53.579 --> 00:46:54.780
iconic.

1019
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:56.280
I don't necessarily see it.

1020
00:46:56.340 --> 00:46:58.079
I think he's an absolutely fine doctor.

1021
00:46:58.199 --> 00:46:59.039
I really enjoy watching him.

1022
00:46:59.099 --> 00:47:00.420
He's not one of my absolute favourites.

1023
00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:02.039
But for the general public.

1024
00:47:02.099 --> 00:47:02.880
He tapped into something.

1025
00:47:02.940 --> 00:47:04.320
He really captured something.

1026
00:47:10.380 --> 00:47:15.599
Senog, marry, avoid, the Dolby Doctor, Professor Lazarus, a half

1027
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:16.619
human Dalek.

1028
00:47:17.219 --> 00:47:20.699
Oh, it's, you know where you are, listener.

1029
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:24.900
Well, obviously, I wish that polygamy was legal and I could marry

1030
00:47:24.900 --> 00:47:25.619
all of them.

1031
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:26.699
Well, that would be amazing.

1032
00:47:26.760 --> 00:47:28.559
Well, that's exactly it.

1033
00:47:28.619 --> 00:47:30.300
Corey Bernardi food.

1034
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:32.400
Well, let's see.

1035
00:47:32.460 --> 00:47:36.420
I think I would snog the Dobby doctor because then you could just

1036
00:47:36.420 --> 00:47:39.900
you know, have you been of a snogging session, pop in mini's cage

1037
00:47:39.900 --> 00:47:40.980
and watch TV together.

1038
00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:41.519
That'd be great.

1039
00:47:42.179 --> 00:47:44.699
Professor Lazarus.

1040
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:48.420
I would definitely, I would definitely marry Professor Lazarus

1041
00:47:48.420 --> 00:47:49.679
because Mark Gatis is delightful.

1042
00:47:49.739 --> 00:47:51.659
He's just a...

1043
00:47:51.659 --> 00:47:54.900
You're going to avoid that creature. popping up every so often to

1044
00:47:54.900 --> 00:47:56.639
suck the energy out of other people and then.

1045
00:47:56.820 --> 00:47:58.559
Who's to say I don't like that kind of thing, John?

1046
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:01.079
And what?

1047
00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:04.199
Avoid, oh, definitely avoid the half human dialect because no one

1048
00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:07.619
can have that many sort of suspiciously shaped tendril things

1049
00:48:07.619 --> 00:48:08.159
coming at you.

1050
00:48:08.219 --> 00:48:10.500
No, no, it's eye watering.

1051
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:14.460
Friday night has rapidly ascended to Saturday morning.

1052
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:19.139
All in the family.

1053
00:48:19.260 --> 00:48:21.059
Martha's dead and Annalise.

1054
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:22.500
Lace.

1055
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:25.739
I actually think Annalise is one of the great characters.

1056
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:27.539
Doctor New History.

1057
00:48:27.659 --> 00:48:31.079
So do I. I'm really disappointed we never get to see her again.

1058
00:48:31.139 --> 00:48:32.039
No, it's terrible.

1059
00:48:32.099 --> 00:48:32.579
It is terrible.

1060
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:35.940
I think the wicked tragedy is that the Sarah Jane adventures

1061
00:48:35.940 --> 00:48:39.539
didn't cross over into this season and that she would have simply

1062
00:48:39.539 --> 00:48:41.699
been neighbours with Clive and Annalise.

1063
00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:45.000
Alternative universe and Elise becomes the master's wife in sound

1064
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:45.539
of drums.

1065
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:49.079
Actually, interesting observation because it's almost the same

1066
00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:51.840
character, if you can see the arc, but simply that one is working

1067
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:54.599
class than the other king from the other side, but they are very

1068
00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:58.559
similar in their, in their, shall we say, aspirations?

1069
00:48:58.619 --> 00:49:01.739
How about there's another hidden depth to Annalise, and she's the

1070
00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:06.480
woman in either Lazar Experiment or 42, who's there saying to

1071
00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:09.300
Francine, yes, keep the recording going, Francine.

1072
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:10.380
That would have been amazing.

1073
00:49:11.219 --> 00:49:17.940
I think that Russell absolutely nails it with 2 fantastic female

1074
00:49:17.940 --> 00:49:20.820
characters in 2 consecutive episodes.

1075
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:26.460
And so we have Neris, and then Annalise, and they are 2 of my

1076
00:49:26.460 --> 00:49:28.380
absolute favourite people.

1077
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:29.280
They are awesome.

1078
00:49:29.340 --> 00:49:34.559
And can you imagine either Neres or Annalise or really any woman

1079
00:49:34.559 --> 00:49:36.840
at all being in a Hingecliff episode.

1080
00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:41.219
You know, like it has really taken Doctor Who to a really fun new

1081
00:49:41.219 --> 00:49:44.400
place where it's able to do sort of comedy at a much more

1082
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:45.119
convenient.

1083
00:49:45.179 --> 00:49:48.059
The closest we ever got was pert wee dressing as the washer warmer

1084
00:49:48.059 --> 00:49:48.900
in green tea.

1085
00:49:50.219 --> 00:49:55.260
And also, they're very different characters because Neres is not a

1086
00:49:55.260 --> 00:49:57.000
very nice person from what we've seen.

1087
00:49:57.059 --> 00:49:59.099
Whereas Analisa actually appears to be really nice.

1088
00:49:59.159 --> 00:50:01.619
She's sort of a bit dumb though, isn't she?

1089
00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:04.800
But so does live is a bit as well.

1090
00:50:04.860 --> 00:50:06.900
She's a Kardashian viewer.

1091
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:07.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1092
00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:09.179
He seduced me.

1093
00:50:09.239 --> 00:50:11.519
That still sticks with me that line.

1094
00:50:11.579 --> 00:50:12.960
It's just so hilarious.

1095
00:50:13.019 --> 00:50:16.860
Like he's that capable of seducing her because he's such a...

1096
00:50:16.920 --> 00:50:18.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1097
00:50:18.059 --> 00:50:20.099
He's, um...

1098
00:50:20.099 --> 00:50:22.440
Look, I quite like him.

1099
00:50:22.500 --> 00:50:26.699
I quite like how one of the side effects of that year of hell is

1100
00:50:26.699 --> 00:50:31.739
that we assume that Francine and Clive are now back together and

1101
00:50:31.739 --> 00:50:33.179
the family is fixed.

1102
00:50:33.239 --> 00:50:33.900
I think we do.

1103
00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:36.300
I think, you know, at the end of series two, one of the things

1104
00:50:36.300 --> 00:50:41.400
that the doctor does, even though he leaves Billy stranded and

1105
00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:42.780
unable to ever see him again.

1106
00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:47.760
He manages inadvertently to fix the big hole in her family that

1107
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:51.000
had been there from the very beginning, that the father is dead.

1108
00:50:51.059 --> 00:50:56.099
We learn about that, what, in episode 3 of series one, that Rose's

1109
00:50:56.099 --> 00:50:57.539
father's not with us anymore.

1110
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:01.619
And after travelling with the doctor, she gets him back.

1111
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:04.559
And so she gets to be part of an intact family at the end.

1112
00:51:04.619 --> 00:51:10.860
And I want to imagine that they're together now, that that's fixed

1113
00:51:10.860 --> 00:51:13.980
that they've been through so much together in that year on the

1114
00:51:13.980 --> 00:51:17.880
valiant, that, you know, they're broken and damaged in all sorts

1115
00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:21.179
of ways and Martha has to leave in order to look after them, but I

1116
00:51:21.179 --> 00:51:24.239
think the family's been, you know, fixed in some way.

1117
00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:25.619
It's interesting.

1118
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:29.039
I don't necessarily see them getting back together.

1119
00:51:29.099 --> 00:51:31.920
I think perhaps they now have an understanding and they get along

1120
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:35.280
and they work together with the family, but she's not going to go

1121
00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:39.239
back to him based on how he's treated her and how what a husband

1122
00:51:39.239 --> 00:51:39.900
he has been.

1123
00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:43.079
So I don't actually necessarily see that, but I do think now that

1124
00:51:43.079 --> 00:51:45.960
they don't argue and that they are more of a unit.

1125
00:51:46.019 --> 00:51:50.579
Yeah, and more of a family and and certainly when Martha's mum

1126
00:51:50.579 --> 00:51:54.960
comes back, you know, briefly in a year's time, when she says, oh

1127
00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:58.980
you came back to me, I still see that she's not with him at that

1128
00:51:58.980 --> 00:51:59.159
time.

1129
00:51:59.219 --> 00:52:01.260
And also spoiler alert.

1130
00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:02.519
That's what happens in series four.

1131
00:52:02.579 --> 00:52:07.199
The doctor heals that family in some ways by making Jackie aware

1132
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:08.519
of the way that she treats her daughter.

1133
00:52:08.579 --> 00:52:09.960
Yeah, yeah.

1134
00:52:14.579 --> 00:52:17.340
Oh, I get a Snuck Mary avoid.

1135
00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:21.059
Okay, Brannigan, Lazloi the Pig Slave and Solomon.

1136
00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:22.920
Oh, okay.

1137
00:52:22.980 --> 00:52:24.900
So I'm allergic to cats.

1138
00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:28.019
No, literally.

1139
00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:32.099
So I have to avoid Branikin, even though he does seem sort of

1140
00:52:32.099 --> 00:52:33.119
rather sweet and lovely.

1141
00:52:33.179 --> 00:52:34.679
He's an old-fashioned cat.

1142
00:52:34.739 --> 00:52:37.139
It's really great casting, isn't it?

1143
00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:40.320
Because he's sort of very famous from Father Ted and he's sort of

1144
00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:41.880
super likeable and silly.

1145
00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:44.460
And, you know, he's wonderful.

1146
00:52:44.820 --> 00:52:51.059
I think that, oh, see, it's quite a hard choice with Laszlo, the

1147
00:52:51.059 --> 00:52:52.320
pig slave and Solomon.

1148
00:52:52.380 --> 00:52:53.940
Because teeth.

1149
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:58.440
Yeah, the teeth could be a problem, but he is kind of handsome and

1150
00:52:58.440 --> 00:52:59.699
in a sort of...

1151
00:52:59.699 --> 00:53:00.599
That little tail, isn't it?

1152
00:53:00.659 --> 00:53:01.619
The little tail.

1153
00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:04.559
The little curled finger of the tail, beckoning you forth.

1154
00:53:04.619 --> 00:53:08.099
Maybe maybe I'm not entirely certain that I could look at that

1155
00:53:08.099 --> 00:53:11.760
across the dinner table for the rest of my life. an apple in his

1156
00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:11.940
mouth.

1157
00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:14.760
Maybe it's a quick snog with last life.

1158
00:53:15.420 --> 00:53:19.199
But it's a quick snog with last slope.

1159
00:53:20.099 --> 00:53:21.360
Bonus bacon and eggs every weekend.

1160
00:53:21.420 --> 00:53:22.079
Yeah, yeah.

1161
00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:25.920
And then I'd marry Solomon, obviously.

1162
00:53:25.980 --> 00:53:28.800
Absolutely Have I had a Stog Mary avoid yet?

1163
00:53:28.860 --> 00:53:29.579
No, it's your turn.

1164
00:53:29.639 --> 00:53:31.440
No, I've just are we talking about today?

1165
00:53:34.139 --> 00:53:36.300
A Mr. Fu Pang.

1166
00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:37.739
Okay.

1167
00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:38.460
Here we go.

1168
00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:39.420
Snog marry avoid.

1169
00:53:39.539 --> 00:53:42.960
Billy Shipton, John Smith, Lawrence Nightingale.

1170
00:53:43.139 --> 00:53:49.199
Oh, there I only just got these Lauren Snyder. hilarious.

1171
00:53:49.260 --> 00:53:50.880
I've never noticed that before either.

1172
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:54.300
I'm going to avoid John Smith.

1173
00:53:54.420 --> 00:53:57.059
Yeah, Good choice. too angsty.

1174
00:53:57.119 --> 00:54:02.760
I'm going to go out and Snorg, Lawrence Nightingale, and I'm going

1175
00:54:02.760 --> 00:54:04.559
to marry Billy Shipton.

1176
00:54:04.619 --> 00:54:05.760
Todd Shipton.

1177
00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:07.019
Todd Shipton.

1178
00:54:07.019 --> 00:54:11.400
Yes, I am Carrie Mulligan.

1179
00:54:11.460 --> 00:54:14.039
Well, you know, Todd, life is short and he is hot.

1180
00:54:14.099 --> 00:54:15.420
Yeah, he really is.

1181
00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:16.920
All right.

1182
00:54:16.980 --> 00:54:22.679
The final category out of the box. before our final wrap-up is

1183
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:25.559
favourite monster slash aliens.

1184
00:54:25.739 --> 00:54:27.420
Francine.

1185
00:54:28.380 --> 00:54:30.719
It's the only possible answer.

1186
00:54:30.780 --> 00:54:35.340
I wonder if we could pick the Jadoon, to be honest.

1187
00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:38.460
I was going to say, I think the Juna are a great addition.

1188
00:54:38.579 --> 00:54:40.860
Obviously, the weeping angels, right?

1189
00:54:40.920 --> 00:54:44.880
The Juduna is sort of the best of the Russell anthropomorphised

1190
00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:49.320
foes. sort of just so recognisable and fun.

1191
00:54:49.380 --> 00:54:52.380
They're so deliberately designed to be up there with, you know

1192
00:54:52.380 --> 00:54:56.579
Cyberman Ice Warriors and Santarans and stuff as a kind of iconic

1193
00:54:56.579 --> 00:55:01.920
looking monster and they are properly funny and properly

1194
00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:02.699
menacing.

1195
00:55:02.760 --> 00:55:04.980
And I think they end up getting used to great effect later on.

1196
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:08.760
I think, you know, they're wonderful in the season finale of

1197
00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:09.420
series four.

1198
00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:12.300
I think they do a great job in the Sarah Jane adventures.

1199
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:16.079
You know, I think that they're proper monsters that you can

1200
00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:18.300
imitate in the playground, absolutely classic.

1201
00:55:18.360 --> 00:55:21.420
Annie Foos, like the Slovine and the Jadoon, which translate to

1202
00:55:21.420 --> 00:55:23.639
the Sarah Jane adventures are automatically classic.

1203
00:55:23.699 --> 00:55:24.659
I agree.

1204
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:27.059
So no love for the macra?

1205
00:55:27.659 --> 00:55:29.880
There was no Mac, right?

1206
00:55:29.940 --> 00:55:31.559
No such thing.

1207
00:55:31.559 --> 00:55:34.500
You can just deal with them with sort of a one dose of cream you

1208
00:55:34.500 --> 00:55:35.820
buy at the chemist and it's fine.

1209
00:55:36.119 --> 00:55:39.900
Well, I just think it's a lot of effort to go to for a very small

1210
00:55:39.900 --> 00:55:40.920
amount of meat.

1211
00:55:40.980 --> 00:55:41.579
You know what I mean?

1212
00:55:41.639 --> 00:55:42.480
Like I, you know.

1213
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:46.500
I'm not talking about Peter's bathing history.

1214
00:55:47.579 --> 00:55:52.559
I think that they're brilliant, but I think that they work on a

1215
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:55.440
kind of metaphorical level rather than as real sort of proper

1216
00:55:55.440 --> 00:55:56.219
monsters.

1217
00:55:56.280 --> 00:55:57.599
So, no.

1218
00:55:57.659 --> 00:56:00.179
We've got to go for the double act as well. son of mine and mother

1219
00:56:00.179 --> 00:56:00.539
of mine.

1220
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:01.920
Yeah, fabulous.

1221
00:56:01.980 --> 00:56:05.699
I think the scarecrows are effective, but I mean, did Jadune stick

1222
00:56:05.699 --> 00:56:05.940
with you?

1223
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:07.500
Yeah, for me.

1224
00:56:07.619 --> 00:56:09.119
And backneck series, apparently.

1225
00:56:24.179 --> 00:56:30.119
So we're heading towards our final comments, wrap up for this

1226
00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:31.019
season.

1227
00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:35.280
So we're going to go with our Jenny Laird award nominations.

1228
00:56:38.340 --> 00:56:39.780
Well, I'm going to start.

1229
00:56:39.900 --> 00:56:41.099
I nominate the Dobby Doctor.

1230
00:56:41.159 --> 00:56:43.980
Oh, because I can't stand it.

1231
00:56:44.039 --> 00:56:45.239
That's Peter's date.

1232
00:56:45.239 --> 00:56:50.519
I know, we could have made sweet love together in that little

1233
00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:50.880
cage.

1234
00:56:50.940 --> 00:56:53.940
Oh, it's just Tweety Bird and Sylvester, isn't it, really?

1235
00:56:55.019 --> 00:56:58.860
That hilarious moment, my absolute sort of just about one of my

1236
00:56:58.860 --> 00:57:03.840
favourite moments in Last of the Time Lords, where John Sim sneaks

1237
00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:07.440
in in his dressing gown, you know, on his tiptoes, with his arms

1238
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:09.360
sort of in the air, towards the thing.

1239
00:57:09.420 --> 00:57:11.340
He's really funny. joyous.

1240
00:57:11.400 --> 00:57:13.139
And it's the rest of the cat again.

1241
00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:13.980
Yeah, it is.

1242
00:57:14.039 --> 00:57:16.380
I think the Dobby doctor.

1243
00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:18.900
I'm going to choose something related to the Dobby Doctor, and

1244
00:57:18.900 --> 00:57:22.980
that is the use of ageing makeup in this series.

1245
00:57:23.039 --> 00:57:28.380
We've said before, it's the BBC foam machine of series three. quite

1246
00:57:28.380 --> 00:57:33.360
literally foam and it never, ever really works.

1247
00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:35.219
And it's used a bunch of times.

1248
00:57:35.280 --> 00:57:38.579
It's not just in, you know, Last of the Time Lords.

1249
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:41.340
And it's just not very good.

1250
00:57:41.400 --> 00:57:45.420
We'll see more of it in tortured next year to similar effect.

1251
00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:50.340
And, you know, I guess it's all right, but it is not very good.

1252
00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:55.019
I think I'd give my Jenny Led Award to the entire episode of 42.

1253
00:57:55.619 --> 00:57:59.099
Just because no one seems to be trying that hard.

1254
00:57:59.159 --> 00:58:01.260
The script is awkward.

1255
00:58:01.320 --> 00:58:04.019
The casting's a little bit off, and I mean, Graham Harper's at the

1256
00:58:04.019 --> 00:58:06.300
helm, and it's maybe the one time that he isn't able to save

1257
00:58:06.300 --> 00:58:06.840
something.

1258
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:11.519
Yeah, it feels like no one really got it rice on that episode.

1259
00:58:13.019 --> 00:58:15.300
Now, I've just nominated.

1260
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:17.400
I haven't actually, I'm nominating other things.

1261
00:58:17.460 --> 00:58:18.539
Oh, really?

1262
00:58:18.539 --> 00:58:21.119
I'm nominating the half human Dalek, the look of it.

1263
00:58:21.179 --> 00:58:23.280
I don't think that works, Mr. Diagonal.

1264
00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:27.539
I'm nominating the fact that Martha has to be in love with the

1265
00:58:27.539 --> 00:58:27.780
doctor.

1266
00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:30.719
I don't think that has some positives.

1267
00:58:30.780 --> 00:58:35.880
It also has some real negative towards her character and bogging

1268
00:58:35.880 --> 00:58:36.300
that down.

1269
00:58:36.360 --> 00:58:38.159
So it's in my nominations.

1270
00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:42.239
I don't think Martha's arc would have worked or Martha as a

1271
00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:44.099
character would have worked if she didn't feel like that towards

1272
00:58:44.099 --> 00:58:46.199
him. essentially who she is.

1273
00:58:46.260 --> 00:58:51.059
She is going to fall for, you could actually say, she's not even

1274
00:58:51.059 --> 00:58:52.199
the father she didn't have.

1275
00:58:52.260 --> 00:58:55.440
He's the father and the mother because she's getting a bit Freudie

1276
00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:57.480
but she sees herself in the doctor.

1277
00:58:57.539 --> 00:59:02.940
So there's the arc and bridge to self-love is searching for that

1278
00:59:02.940 --> 00:59:06.300
acknowledgement of her own confidence, which the doctor

1279
00:59:06.300 --> 00:59:07.079
represents.

1280
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:10.980
So for Martha to fall unrequitedly towards the doctor is a perfect

1281
00:59:10.980 --> 00:59:16.199
fit because he is, if you like, what she would see herself as if

1282
00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:19.739
she was fully functional and happy and self-loving.

1283
00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:23.159
So the fact that he then doesn't recognise her is a perfect fit

1284
00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:24.840
for where she is right now.

1285
00:59:24.900 --> 00:59:28.079
And at the end of the season when she realises I actually can love

1286
00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:30.659
myself and I do have confidence in my abilities and I've just

1287
00:59:30.659 --> 00:59:34.260
saved that goddamn world, the whole bloody lot of you.

1288
00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:36.840
I don't give a stuff what you think about me anymore.

1289
00:59:36.900 --> 00:59:37.500
It's perfect.

1290
00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:41.400
That is that is a wonderful, wonderful moment.

1291
00:59:41.579 --> 00:59:44.760
Maybe it's the execution in certain episodes and how it's

1292
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:45.119
written.

1293
00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:48.059
It feels uncomfortable because it is uncomfortable and it's

1294
00:59:48.059 --> 00:59:51.539
something most of us go through if we're aware, self-aware.

1295
00:59:51.599 --> 00:59:53.699
We know that arc that she goes to.

1296
00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:54.599
It's painful.

1297
00:59:55.079 --> 00:59:58.500
Do you have any Jenny Laird nominations at all?

1298
00:59:58.559 --> 00:59:59.699
I think you've covered them all.

1299
00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:01.619
I mean, the things that I don't like.

1300
01:00:01.679 --> 01:00:04.860
I can then look at and go, oh, there's a reason for them all the

1301
01:00:04.860 --> 01:00:05.099
time.

1302
01:00:05.159 --> 01:00:06.960
And it's a good season.

1303
01:00:07.019 --> 01:00:09.960
It's hard to pick Jenny Laird awards, you know, when there's no

1304
01:00:09.960 --> 01:00:10.500
Jenny Lance.

1305
01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:12.360
And it's all done consciously.

1306
01:00:12.420 --> 01:00:17.400
Like Doctor Who, in this era, I think very rarely fails because it

1307
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:20.400
because of some kind of incompetence, you know, it fails because

1308
01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:23.400
it rubs up against people's expectations, I think, a lot.

1309
01:00:23.460 --> 01:00:26.400
But, you know, they know what they're doing, I think.

1310
01:00:26.460 --> 01:00:30.539
And you don't really have people come in and deliver awkward

1311
01:00:30.539 --> 01:00:34.260
performances like you did during the classic series, you know, for

1312
01:00:34.260 --> 01:00:37.559
reasons of, you know, time and rehearsals and things like that.

1313
01:00:37.619 --> 01:00:39.840
It's just an altogether tighter operation.

1314
01:00:39.960 --> 01:00:43.380
Also, the Doctor Who was just seen as something that kids wanted

1315
01:00:43.380 --> 01:00:47.579
you to do, and it was popular, but it was just a job back in the

1316
01:00:47.579 --> 01:00:48.059
day.

1317
01:00:48.119 --> 01:00:51.360
Which means that when in the new series, you do eventually start

1318
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:54.179
getting performances where you think, what are you doing?

1319
01:00:54.179 --> 01:00:56.219
And we'll get one next year when we come to that.

1320
01:00:56.280 --> 01:00:57.659
You think, okay, Jenny Letterwood.

1321
01:00:58.679 --> 01:01:06.300
My actual award goes to the kiss perpetrated by Francine's husband

1322
01:01:06.300 --> 01:01:10.139
on Francine in the final episode of October, where it looks like

1323
01:01:10.139 --> 01:01:13.739
he is a mama bird about to vomit in the mouth on a baby bird, that

1324
01:01:13.739 --> 01:01:16.079
for me, the Roger Morton.

1325
01:01:16.920 --> 01:01:19.380
I'm sorry, that's how I see it.

1326
01:01:19.440 --> 01:01:21.599
It's the genuine board for me with the season.

1327
01:01:21.659 --> 01:01:25.860
I just sit there going, Tony Curtis and Joan Collins.

1328
01:01:27.539 --> 01:01:29.699
For our loyal listeners.

1329
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:34.679
I think you've touched on the fact, Nathan and Peter, that in the

1330
01:01:34.679 --> 01:01:38.760
new series, giving out Jenny Lead Awards is difficult because it's

1331
01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:41.340
entirely different production and television is so different.

1332
01:01:41.400 --> 01:01:44.519
We're not going to get those absolutely dire performances slash

1333
01:01:44.519 --> 01:01:45.599
special effects.

1334
01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:48.960
So trying to find something, it's really nitpicky.

1335
01:01:49.019 --> 01:01:50.519
I just forgot to do it really.

1336
01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:57.119
So I thought we would have like the anti-Jenny Lead Award.

1337
01:01:57.179 --> 01:02:00.239
For something in the series that could be your startling discovery

1338
01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:01.619
it could be your most joyous moment.

1339
01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:05.099
And so, um, these catch your name.

1340
01:02:05.159 --> 01:02:08.340
So we're giving out the Bonnie Langford.

1341
01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:13.860
It's not the Bonnie Langford Award. the Bonnie Langford?

1342
01:02:13.920 --> 01:02:14.940
No, absolutely.

1343
01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:18.719
She is much, much better than nearly everyone thinks.

1344
01:02:18.840 --> 01:02:22.199
And she gives 155% in everything.

1345
01:02:22.260 --> 01:02:26.219
So I'm after that moment for you. seeing Brendan in a wig.

1346
01:02:29.400 --> 01:02:33.239
I'm after that moment. and you've already mentioned George.

1347
01:02:33.300 --> 01:02:33.900
I think so.

1348
01:02:33.960 --> 01:02:37.800
I think it is that moment, the old rugged cross in gridlock.

1349
01:02:37.860 --> 01:02:40.320
I think it's super interesting.

1350
01:02:40.380 --> 01:02:41.820
The plot hinges on it.

1351
01:02:41.880 --> 01:02:46.500
Like both Martha and the doctor express their different takes on

1352
01:02:46.500 --> 01:02:47.280
what's going on.

1353
01:02:47.340 --> 01:02:49.559
It propels the doctor into action.

1354
01:02:49.619 --> 01:02:54.119
It shows a group of human beings trapped, but still forming a

1355
01:02:54.119 --> 01:02:54.900
community.

1356
01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:56.579
It expresses hope.

1357
01:02:56.639 --> 01:03:02.280
And I just also just feel that kind of loss of a kind of, that

1358
01:03:02.280 --> 01:03:05.340
kind of certainty, that religion gives people.

1359
01:03:05.400 --> 01:03:09.780
And so for me, it is just one of the most affecting scenes in

1360
01:03:09.780 --> 01:03:11.760
Doctor Who in that era.

1361
01:03:11.820 --> 01:03:13.800
And so it gets my Bonnie Langford.

1362
01:03:13.860 --> 01:03:14.400
Okay.

1363
01:03:14.460 --> 01:03:15.179
Richard?

1364
01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:18.119
Oh, Nicola McCauliff as Vivian Rooke.

1365
01:03:18.179 --> 01:03:19.380
Oh yes.

1366
01:03:22.139 --> 01:03:26.159
Because if you remember Graham Garden of the Goodies and, you know

1367
01:03:26.159 --> 01:03:28.920
creator of some of my favourite radio series of all time.

1368
01:03:28.980 --> 01:03:31.440
Like, I'm sorry, I haven't a clue, the unbelievable truth.

1369
01:03:31.500 --> 01:03:34.380
Everything he touches is gold rotor series called Surgical Spirit

1370
01:03:34.380 --> 01:03:39.599
back in the 90s, where she played the lead and the very caustic, I

1371
01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:41.940
suppose Penelope Keith with a higher education.

1372
01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:46.199
She played the chief of surgeons and she's just fabulous in

1373
01:03:46.199 --> 01:03:47.280
everything she touches.

1374
01:03:47.400 --> 01:03:49.739
She's titanium level.

1375
01:03:49.800 --> 01:03:51.780
Platinum, forget gold.

1376
01:03:51.780 --> 01:03:52.980
And she's wonderful in this.

1377
01:03:53.039 --> 01:03:56.460
She's our moral compass of truth, and she's actually what's gone

1378
01:03:56.460 --> 01:03:57.599
wrong with British politics.

1379
01:03:57.659 --> 01:04:01.079
She's there to say, it's all gone wrong because Saxon is Blair.

1380
01:04:01.139 --> 01:04:01.800
Yeah.

1381
01:04:01.860 --> 01:04:07.860
And Vivian Rook is our expectations made manifest, and then Flesh

1382
01:04:07.860 --> 01:04:08.639
and then mints.

1383
01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:13.079
She's an absolute joy to watch and then mints.

1384
01:04:14.400 --> 01:04:18.059
Thank you for that I would have liked a whole season with her as

1385
01:04:18.059 --> 01:04:21.900
the reporter going around chasing the history of sex and behind

1386
01:04:21.900 --> 01:04:23.099
the scenes.

1387
01:04:23.159 --> 01:04:25.380
I could have actually done with her and not John Barriman.

1388
01:04:25.440 --> 01:04:26.880
Sorry, sorry, John.

1389
01:04:26.940 --> 01:04:28.739
I only like John Barriman in Doc Two.

1390
01:04:28.800 --> 01:04:31.260
Don't like him in Torchwood, but he's lovely in dog.

1391
01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:34.079
We haven't even mentioned him once, this episode, this for a

1392
01:04:34.079 --> 01:04:34.320
reason.

1393
01:04:34.380 --> 01:04:37.199
Can we have some love for his when he's running through the bay?

1394
01:04:37.260 --> 01:04:38.820
Dog, dog.

1395
01:04:39.599 --> 01:04:42.539
I really like his relationship with Martha.

1396
01:04:42.599 --> 01:04:43.559
It's delightful.

1397
01:04:43.619 --> 01:04:44.340
It's really lovely.

1398
01:04:44.460 --> 01:04:47.159
Yeah, he could have stayed for most of the season. would have just

1399
01:04:47.159 --> 01:04:47.639
would have been lovely.

1400
01:04:48.059 --> 01:04:49.500
Peter.

1401
01:04:49.739 --> 01:04:54.780
My Bonnie Langford will go to one of the MVPs of the season, which

1402
01:04:54.780 --> 01:04:56.039
is director Charles Palmer.

1403
01:04:56.159 --> 01:04:56.820
Ooh.

1404
01:04:56.820 --> 01:04:57.659
He comes in.

1405
01:04:57.719 --> 01:04:59.639
He's a freshman and he does 4 episodes.

1406
01:04:59.699 --> 01:05:02.880
Smith and Jones, Shakespeare code, and the 2 human nature episodes

1407
01:05:02.880 --> 01:05:04.860
all of which are expertly done.

1408
01:05:04.920 --> 01:05:07.860
And he's got links to the Doctor Who family.

1409
01:05:07.920 --> 01:05:11.639
So, of course, his father, we all love Adore, Jeffrey, and he's

1410
01:05:11.639 --> 01:05:14.699
married to Claire Skinner from Outnumbered, who was in the Doctor

1411
01:05:14.699 --> 01:05:15.599
the Widow in the Wardrobe.

1412
01:05:15.719 --> 01:05:16.260
Oh.

1413
01:05:16.260 --> 01:05:19.619
Every episode he does is amazing, but especially the human nature

1414
01:05:19.619 --> 01:05:23.159
2 part, a lot of it shot in quite an old-fashioned way, a lot of

1415
01:05:23.159 --> 01:05:26.219
sort of in-camera effects and practical effects, and it looks

1416
01:05:26.219 --> 01:05:27.119
superb for it.

1417
01:05:27.179 --> 01:05:30.119
And then he goes away and you think, oh, okay, well, he's 4 and

1418
01:05:30.119 --> 01:05:30.300
done.

1419
01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:32.820
He was amazing and he comes back and he gives us oxygen in Series

1420
01:05:32.820 --> 01:05:33.000
10.

1421
01:05:33.179 --> 01:05:35.400
You think, well, thank you very much, Charles Palmer.

1422
01:05:37.199 --> 01:05:41.880
I've got 2 moments for this award.

1423
01:05:41.940 --> 01:05:49.260
My 1st is when Captain Jack announces that he was the face of Bo.

1424
01:05:49.320 --> 01:05:53.579
Yeah, Murray Gold comes in and gives us the face of Beau theme.

1425
01:05:53.639 --> 01:05:55.440
He clearly thinks it's true as well.

1426
01:05:55.500 --> 01:05:58.739
Like, it's a scene where you can read it one way or the other

1427
01:05:58.739 --> 01:06:01.199
depending on the reactions of the doctor, and is Jack just playing

1428
01:06:01.199 --> 01:06:01.739
with us?

1429
01:06:01.800 --> 01:06:05.760
And there's not a conclusive, you know, you can take it that he is

1430
01:06:05.760 --> 01:06:07.380
or not.

1431
01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:11.039
And normally you, well, everybody here knows me, that I like

1432
01:06:11.039 --> 01:06:14.219
things black and white, but for the one time in the history of the

1433
01:06:14.219 --> 01:06:19.260
show, Like it's just so outrageous, but it's, it never ceases to

1434
01:06:19.260 --> 01:06:23.400
make me smile and laugh and go, it is what it is, and I don't care

1435
01:06:23.400 --> 01:06:24.659
whether it's one way or the other.

1436
01:06:24.719 --> 01:06:25.980
I just love it.

1437
01:06:26.039 --> 01:06:30.119
Like, you know, I just, the fact that Russell threw that in. and

1438
01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:32.760
you're not expecting it and the reaction.

1439
01:06:32.820 --> 01:06:35.639
I think Freeman's reaction just sells it.

1440
01:06:35.699 --> 01:06:39.659
And speaking of Freeman, the other moment is when she walks back

1441
01:06:39.659 --> 01:06:44.699
into the Tartars, to finally say to the doctor, I'm going, this is

1442
01:06:44.699 --> 01:06:50.219
why, and no other companion, he knew who has been given that

1443
01:06:50.219 --> 01:06:54.119
opportunity to leave on their own terms. sense of self

1444
01:06:53.579 --> 01:06:54.119
completion.

1445
01:06:54.179 --> 01:06:56.820
And that's why she shines in this series.

1446
01:06:56.820 --> 01:06:58.679
I don't underrated leaving scene.

1447
01:06:58.739 --> 01:06:59.579
It's wonderful.

1448
01:06:59.699 --> 01:07:01.019
Well, it hurts.

1449
01:07:01.079 --> 01:07:02.159
That's why people don't go back.

1450
01:07:02.579 --> 01:07:04.019
All right.

1451
01:07:04.079 --> 01:07:06.840
Well, we're at the end of our retrospective.

1452
01:07:06.900 --> 01:07:09.840
I always throw out the question for the next series.

1453
01:07:09.900 --> 01:07:12.360
Where are you sitting with it at the moment?

1454
01:07:12.420 --> 01:07:15.659
Is there any sort of thing that you'll be looking at when you go

1455
01:07:15.659 --> 01:07:16.440
in to watch it?

1456
01:07:16.500 --> 01:07:19.679
You know, for me, for series 4?

1457
01:07:19.800 --> 01:07:23.820
It always seems to be the combination of RTD's work and it always

1458
01:07:23.820 --> 01:07:24.960
sits above everything else.

1459
01:07:25.019 --> 01:07:26.159
Will that still hold?

1460
01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:28.199
I'm not sure.

1461
01:07:28.260 --> 01:07:33.719
And the other overriding aspect is that I thought the 3 episodes

1462
01:07:33.719 --> 01:07:36.300
with Martha were weaker than everything else in the season.

1463
01:07:36.360 --> 01:07:40.679
And now that I've had a complete new appreciation of Freema.

1464
01:07:40.739 --> 01:07:43.860
Is that going to change my opinion when I get to that run of

1465
01:07:43.860 --> 01:07:44.280
episodes?

1466
01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:49.440
I've said, I think, that each season gets better than the last one

1467
01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:54.300
but something that Richard said gave me pause a bit because I

1468
01:07:54.300 --> 01:07:57.480
don't think the specials are better than series 4 and I think that

1469
01:07:57.480 --> 01:08:01.260
it is because Russell lets himself kind of, I'm not quite sure

1470
01:08:01.260 --> 01:08:04.139
what it is. don't really want to play. when we get there.

1471
01:08:04.199 --> 01:08:10.860
Yeah, but there are 2 episodes in the series 4 that are as bleak

1472
01:08:10.860 --> 01:08:13.980
as anything that Russell's written for Doctor Who, and that's

1473
01:08:13.980 --> 01:08:16.199
midnight and turn left.

1474
01:08:16.260 --> 01:08:22.199
And I like Russell being bleak, but I don't know.

1475
01:08:22.260 --> 01:08:24.840
I've had a lot of Russell being bleak lately with years and

1476
01:08:24.840 --> 01:08:25.560
years.

1477
01:08:25.619 --> 01:08:27.119
So you don't know if it's right for Doctor Who?

1478
01:08:27.239 --> 01:08:31.319
Well, I like him to push it a little bit, but let's see, you know

1479
01:08:31.319 --> 01:08:36.239
like I am, I'll be interested to see what I think of it, but I am

1480
01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:38.579
kind of excited and Jackie King.

1481
01:08:39.479 --> 01:08:43.079
He does, I was going to say, on Nathan's point there, there is the

1482
01:08:43.079 --> 01:08:45.960
bleakness of those 2 episodes, but that's followed by the absolute

1483
01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:49.439
joyousness of that final 2 parter.

1484
01:08:49.500 --> 01:08:51.239
So it definitely all gets pulled back.

1485
01:08:51.479 --> 01:08:53.699
It's interesting, isn't it?

1486
01:08:53.760 --> 01:08:58.619
Thinking back to our expectations, I remember feeling bittersweet

1487
01:08:58.619 --> 01:09:03.600
at the end of this season with the handling of Martha and the

1488
01:09:03.600 --> 01:09:06.600
performance, and I've really only come to the understanding we

1489
01:09:06.600 --> 01:09:10.800
have now, now, has it taken this long, even though I've watched it

1490
01:09:10.800 --> 01:09:13.619
several times, we watch it for the little joyous moments, and then

1491
01:09:13.619 --> 01:09:17.939
we see the arc, of course, only in hindsight, how else could you?

1492
01:09:18.119 --> 01:09:21.119
The anticipation for season four.

1493
01:09:21.180 --> 01:09:24.600
I really wasn't comfortable with the casting of Catherine Tade at

1494
01:09:24.600 --> 01:09:24.899
the time.

1495
01:09:24.960 --> 01:09:26.819
I thought it would be shticky.

1496
01:09:26.880 --> 01:09:31.739
I thought, I know that Russell has many theatrical turns, if you

1497
01:09:31.739 --> 01:09:35.880
like, that he adores, and one of them is Blackpool Pier.

1498
01:09:35.939 --> 01:09:39.359
One of them is slapstick and sideshow, and I thought this is just

1499
01:09:39.359 --> 01:09:42.420
going to be a love fest with tenant and Catherine Tate telling

1500
01:09:42.420 --> 01:09:45.659
each other they're geniuses, as they do when they're, when they do

1501
01:09:45.659 --> 01:09:48.600
their little chats and interviews, and at the time, on BBC radio

1502
01:09:48.600 --> 01:09:50.939
and TV, there was a whole lot of them just say, oh, I love you.

1503
01:09:51.000 --> 01:09:52.020
Oh no, I love you more.

1504
01:09:52.079 --> 01:09:52.619
I love you.

1505
01:09:52.680 --> 01:09:55.260
I cannot do a whole season of this.

1506
01:09:55.319 --> 01:09:57.420
So that's how I felt going into it.

1507
01:09:57.479 --> 01:10:01.859
But I feel that I may be, I may be up for some surprises.

1508
01:10:01.920 --> 01:10:02.640
Good.

1509
01:10:02.699 --> 01:10:03.659
Peter.

1510
01:10:03.720 --> 01:10:08.760
I think, I mean, I'm willing to change my mind if I come to it and

1511
01:10:08.760 --> 01:10:14.399
find differently, but I think series 4 is the best series of New

1512
01:10:14.399 --> 01:10:16.380
Doc 2 since it came back.

1513
01:10:16.439 --> 01:10:18.899
I mean, it feels like everyone's at the height of their powers.

1514
01:10:18.960 --> 01:10:21.600
I mean, they were so confident that they just rolled on in and

1515
01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:24.779
sort of shot episode 3 and episode 7 1st up.

1516
01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:28.020
You know, there was no sense of we're having to start and then

1517
01:10:28.020 --> 01:10:31.979
continue and then and it was just business as usual and everyone's

1518
01:10:31.979 --> 01:10:35.340
firing on all cylinders and then you just add Catherine Tate into

1519
01:10:35.340 --> 01:10:37.020
the mix and Shorefire winner.

1520
01:10:37.079 --> 01:10:38.880
You think it might end up being quite good.

1521
01:10:38.939 --> 01:10:40.439
Is that where you think it'll go?

1522
01:10:40.500 --> 01:10:41.520
I think so.

1523
01:10:41.579 --> 01:10:44.819
And I think there's very few dead episodes and one spectacularly

1524
01:10:44.819 --> 01:10:46.020
dead episode, which is great.

1525
01:11:16.079 --> 01:11:20.520
Well, listen, that's all we have time for this weekend for this

1526
01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:21.840
series of Doctor Who.

1527
01:11:21.899 --> 01:11:24.899
We'll be back at Christmas to join Kylie for a commentary podcast

1528
01:11:24.899 --> 01:11:26.819
on Voyage of the Damned.

1529
01:11:26.880 --> 01:11:30.420
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1530
01:11:30.420 --> 01:11:33.659
and you can keep up with us at Flights or Entirety on Facebook, at

1531
01:11:33.659 --> 01:11:38.159
FTE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety

1532
01:11:36.479 --> 01:11:41.579
com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, and

1533
01:11:41.579 --> 01:11:42.600
Jody Interterra.

1534
01:11:42.659 --> 01:11:46.800
Until next time, may you all learn a valuable lesson about not

1535
01:11:46.800 --> 01:11:50.579
voting for barely competent supervillains in major elections.

1536
01:11:50.640 --> 01:11:53.699
I'm talking to you, English speaking world.

1537
01:11:53.760 --> 01:11:56.399
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1538
01:11:56.460 --> 01:11:57.300
Good night.

1539
01:11:57.359 --> 01:11:58.260
See you soon.

1540
01:11:58.319 --> 01:11:58.800
Good then.

1541
01:12:00.479 --> 01:12:04.380
That was Flight for Entirety, starring Todd Bilby, Nathan

1542
01:12:04.380 --> 01:12:06.359
Monterley, Peter Griffiths, and Richard Stone.

1543
01:12:06.420 --> 01:12:09.300
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, strings performance by Jane

1544
01:12:09.300 --> 01:12:10.199
Orberg.

1545
01:12:10.260 --> 01:12:14.039
This episode, Subtlety and Undertones, was recorded on the 13th of

1546
01:12:14.039 --> 01:12:16.979
October 2019 and released on the 15th of December.

1547
01:12:20.100 --> 01:12:23.220
We'd like to thank all the people who joined us this series, Pete

1548
01:12:23.220 --> 01:12:27.119
Lambert, Conrad Westmas, Eric Stadnick, Colin Neil, Simon Moore

1549
01:12:27.119 --> 01:12:28.680
Liz Miles, and Adam Richard.

1550
01:12:28.739 --> 01:12:32.640
We'll be back again at Christmas and for series 4 in 2020, or

1551
01:12:32.640 --> 01:12:34.140
perhaps even sooner than that.

1552
01:12:34.739 --> 01:12:38.640
Do you want to cheat and give Peter a snug Mario void?

1553
01:12:38.699 --> 01:12:39.720
Because we're gonna chop it up.

1554
01:12:39.779 --> 01:12:42.359
It doesn't matter if he does 2 consecutive questions.

1555
01:12:42.420 --> 01:12:43.380
But I'm with you.

1556
01:12:43.439 --> 01:12:45.000
Why do I have to have a snog?

1557
01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:45.300
I have to.

1558
01:12:45.359 --> 01:12:47.399
It's part of a...

1559
01:12:47.399 --> 01:12:51.720
It's part of the ritual... ritual.

1560
01:12:51.779 --> 01:12:53.100
Can I do them all?

1561
01:12:53.100 --> 01:12:55.140
Like, I can, like I do on Grindr.

1562
01:12:55.199 --> 01:12:57.899
Snold them, talk about marrying them and avoid them.

1563
01:12:57.960 --> 01:13:00.000
Oh, Peter. picking one for you.

1564
01:13:00.060 --> 01:13:01.920
Wait a second, wait a second. blow your load too soon.

1565
01:13:01.979 --> 01:13:04.500
Let's do that so that I can do it go into it with a clear thing.

1566
01:13:04.560 --> 01:13:06.239
Oh, Peter, I'm picking one for you.

1567
01:13:06.300 --> 01:13:08.520
Thank you very much, Todd.

1568
01:13:08.579 --> 01:13:10.260
It's like when we go out on a Friday night.

1569
01:13:12.600 --> 01:13:15.000
What was that about boomtish?

1570
01:13:15.119 --> 01:13:18.300
That's what Martha's sister calls herself behind closed doors.

1571
01:13:19.500 --> 01:13:25.079
Sandog marry avoid, the Dobby doctor, Professor Lazarus, a half

1572
01:13:25.079 --> 01:13:25.920
human Dalek.