WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:04:15

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Hello, dear Lister, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast where the Fat just walks away.

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And we're back.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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I'm Todd, and I'm Peter, and I've travelled a long way to find

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obesity on this scale.

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I hate you so much.

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I'm thin and beauty.

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So it's been a couple of months since we killed Kylie and narrowly

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avoided crashing the Titanic into the royal family, so it's time

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for a return to business as usual.

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A new companion, a new family and a new small to medium enterprise

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to undermine and ultimately explode.

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It's the 1st episode of RTD's last Doctor Who series.

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It's partners in crime.

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So, let's start with Donna, I think.

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Peter, how did you feel when you first heard that Donna was coming

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back for an entire season?

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Well, I was actually spoil it on this fact very early.

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I think, um, yeah, maybe just after series 3 had finished

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recording, um, and a friend rang me up and said, you'll never

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guess what.

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Catherine Tate is back and she's going to be the regular for the

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entire season.

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I was like, 0 my god, and we both sort of, you know, combusted on

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the spot.

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But I knew that they would do something interesting with her.

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I knew that she wouldn't be quite the same Donna that we'd seen in

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runaway bride.

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There'd be more facets tour and more elements and they delivered

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on that in spades.

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How did you feel, Todd?

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I was concerned.

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Yeah.

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Because I hadn't really liked her very much initially, in her 1st

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appearance, well, certainly for about 20 minutes of the episode

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she shouted her way through it, and then she got better.

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So when it was announced.

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I was like, okay, we'll see where this goes.

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Um, I mean, I wasn't totally against it, but I was, you know

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concerned.

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And James?

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Um, oh, I was, I was really excited.

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I love Catherine Tate.

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I've loved everything she's ever done.

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Um, uh, she is just fantastic and, And she's a bloody good

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actress.

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I think it is the biggest companion casting announcement since

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Bonnie Langford, and maybe those are the 2 big ones.

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Maybe since Jackie Lane.

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Maybe since Jackie Lane and Bonnie Langford.

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And it was criticised in the in the press at the time for being

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stunt casting that they were chucking her back in there because

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they were trying to broaden the appeal of the show.

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What a terrible thing to do.

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Oh, that's crazy.

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It was like, how very terrible. television.

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I mean, yeah, let's try and broaden the appeal.

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But yeah, so now you're like, it is great casting.

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If you can get her back.

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By all accounts, she loved working on the show.

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I think she just loved working with David Tennant.

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Isn't that the story?

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Palpable chemistry on screen.

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And they've been friends ever since.

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Yeah.

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And you can see it when they sort of did press appearances

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together and the way that they would fire back and forth and kind

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of bounce off each other.

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It was just delightful.

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I don't think I seriously believed it because I just thought she

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was too big.

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Her show was still going on, so it meant, you know, months living

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in Cardiff, not doing the show, doing nothing other than Doctor

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Who.

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And she's really, really funny in the commentaries.

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Remember the podcast commentaries that they were making it this

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time?

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been releasing on the BBC website.

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Like the Santaran 2 parter and everything where she's just

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completely clueless about production, but Ishi.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I think it's I think it's actually, you know, a bit.

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But she makes the claim that she thought that Doctor Who always

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just had Daleks in it.

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Like she seems to have not known anything about Doctor Who, you

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know, really.

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But it is incredible.

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And I think what you said earlier, Todd, where she's big and

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shouty for 20 minutes in Runaway Bride, but then it's a much, much

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more interesting performance.

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I think it's one of those things where comics often make the best

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dramatic actors and actresses.

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And in the back of my mind.

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That's what I was thinking, that that's where we're going to go

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with this and she had the potential to be the most sensational

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thing ever.

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And she was the most sensational thing ever.

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I think that's the thing, is that to be a good comedian, you

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really do need to understand drama.

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Yeah.

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Like, you need to understand timing, which is very important in

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drama.

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You need to understand how to carry an audience.

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And she came up, what, around the same time slightly before the

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Little Britain boys.

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She was doing stand-up.

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Um, they, didn't they kind of rip her off for Vicky Pollard in a

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way?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Well, that's not for here.

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Um, you know, she earned her, her um, her stand-up, her comedy

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chops and has pivoted quite well into other roles.

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She turned up in the office a few years later.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, doing a character.

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The Unreal Office.

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The wrong one, the one that is being remade again by NBC

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apparently.

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I think they're not my companion crowd, the ones who are like, oh

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she's just going to ruin the show and be over the top.

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It shows a certain lack of imagination of what Russell would be

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able to do with a character like that played by an actress like

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that.

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So people who are just like, oh, she's just going to be terrible.

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She's just going to be terrible and pretty much hung on to that.

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They're a very small minority.

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And can I say, when I was doing the big polls for Doctor Who

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magazine, Donna came 2nd in the companion polls both times.

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So this was up to 8 years after she left the show, 2nd only to

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Elizabeth Slayton.

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It's funny too, because the show, the new show, introduces Sarah

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Jane Smith, and Donna Noble as regulars in the same way.

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So they're investigating something, because they know that that's

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what the doctor would do.

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And so Sarah Jane Smith turns up in school reunion at the school.

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And here, um, Donna turns up at Adipose Industries because they

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know that the infiltrating an organisation that has some alien

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involvement is the sort of thing that the doctor would do.

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And the most interesting thing I think about the way that she's

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introduced is that she's positioned as the doctor's counterpart.

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She's the same as the doctor.

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She's his partner in crime.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But she's more she's clever and more competent because she manages

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to infiltrate without having to break doors down and that sort of

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thing.

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She's setting technology.

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She just, yeah, she just...

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Oh, yes, do, do.

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So yeah, so she actually looks a lot more professional. than he

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does.

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She doesn't need psychic paper or a sonic scrutiny.

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But she does have psychic paper.

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The funny thing about it is, she's clearly, it's clear in that

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wonderful scene, which we'll talk about later, that scene with

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Sylvia, that she's got a job in health and safety, has got an ID

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quit the job 2 days later, and she's seen flashing the ID in

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exactly the same way as the doctor very quickly with a couple of

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fingers over it.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And it's health and safety.

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Like they both pose as health and safety.

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And they're both infiltrating the same organisation at exactly the

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same pace and doing the same thing.

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I'm not entirely sure that those scenes early on quite work, and I

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think it's James Strong's fault, because there are only a few

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scenes where it's very clear what their relationship spatially is

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to one another.

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And the script is clearly written in such a way that they're

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supposed to keep missing one another, just by a hair.

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But it's never very quite clear where spatially they are in

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relation to one another.

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They had such trouble filming that they kept stuffing up the

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timing and it took all night to get about 3 seconds of, I mean, I'm

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exaggerating there, but like they, all of that popping up, popping

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down stuff.

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They kept they kept stuffing it up and they had to reshoot and

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reshoot and reshoot.

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James, just do it as a split screen and they'd edit it later.

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But that is the bit that works.

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The bit where they're going up and down popping over the over the

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cubicle partitions and just missing one another.

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That's all wonderful.

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But when they approach the building, it's not clear. like it looks

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initially like they're walking towards one another and then it's

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not clear, like they're clearly going to different sides of the

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building.

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There's another scene later at night where they're at that sort of

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intersection and they walk.

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Which I do like because the last shot pays that off quite well.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So she's the doctor straight away.

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And and that is obviously feeding into the arc this year, the Dr

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Donna, which won't be actually sort of mentioned by name for

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another 2 episodes.

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It's like the way they're constantly mistaken for a married

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couple.

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The idea that they, that they have this sort of very, very close

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relationship, which ends up being a real kind of timey, whimey

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thing.

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Which other people pick up on immediately?

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Yeah, yeah.

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I have to say as well, it's really nice, the fact that Donna's

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investigating this, like Sarah Jane did, is very indicative of the

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change in her character because old Donna, you know, new flavour

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of Pringle, text me, text me, Donna, would have been all over the

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adipose tablet.

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She would have been one of the 1st customers.

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She would have been there, swept up in the craze, whereas New

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Donna, who's sort of investigating and interrogating things and

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wants to change her life, is more interested by what is this and

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what's behind it rather than it supposedly does this.

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Which is what makes her ultimate fate.

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So devastating.

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Of course, yeah.

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That she goes back to.

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Yeah, that like, you know, meeting the doctor made her a better

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person.

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Yeah.

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And the fact that she basically dies at the end of the season is

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just horrific.

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I still haven't forgiven Russell for it.

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Spoiler.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So, can we talk about Donna and her mum?

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Because I think the introduction of Will, and I think everyone's

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probably familiar with the story of the fact that it was meant to

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be Donna's dad from Runaway Brides, but sadly, the actor was very

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ill and passed away. not long after.

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And so they brought in Bernard Cribbens and made him her grandad.

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Um, that scene on the hill between them really warms Donna up.

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It allows her to kind of come back down to earth and gives her a

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few more facets because of his obvious love for her.

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Um, but her mum, uh, that scene in the kitchen, that very well

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shot scene where Donna's just sitting there staring into space and

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her mother's this whirl of activity kind of moving around her. um

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and she's haranguing her.

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And she's really mean.

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Like everything that she says, she sort of pokes her face into

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Donna's and really gets up in her business.

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And you think, yeah, this is dreadful.

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You can see why Donna previously hasn't had any ambitions.

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She's been ground down by kind of everyday bullying.

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Although I like the intention of that scene.

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I actually don't like the way it shot because Sylvia just seems to

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be, um, cleaning the same 3 spots all the time.

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Don't you think Sylvia might do that?

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I don't know.

253
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I just, every time I watch it, I just go, can you, can you do

254
00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:28.799
something different?

255
00:12:28.860 --> 00:12:30.539
You can be putting things away in the cupboard?

256
00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:32.100
But I just don't like the way it's shot.

257
00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:34.080
Hermogadons just kicked in.

258
00:12:34.139 --> 00:12:39.299
I think it's a good way of indicating that this is what happens to

259
00:12:39.299 --> 00:12:40.379
Donna all the time.

260
00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:42.840
So she's just sitting there like...

261
00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:43.799
A time lapse of weeks.

262
00:12:43.860 --> 00:12:44.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

263
00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:47.220
I mean, it is clearly not meant to be a time lapse of weeks, but

264
00:12:47.220 --> 00:12:49.860
it does give the impression that this is how Sylvia treats her.

265
00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:53.700
I think Sylvia is incredibly good and she's already good in

266
00:12:53.700 --> 00:12:54.659
Runaway Bride.

267
00:12:54.899 --> 00:13:00.480
Yeah, it's amazing because last season, you get off a bit on the

268
00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:02.820
wrong foot with Francine, she's a much harsher character, but

269
00:13:02.820 --> 00:13:06.779
coming back to this, I still warmed Sylvia, even though she's

270
00:13:06.779 --> 00:13:07.440
nagging away.

271
00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:10.139
And I think that's an interesting difference.

272
00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:13.379
And I like the fact that we then sort of go to Donna on the Hill

273
00:13:13.379 --> 00:13:17.220
talking to her, her grandfather and she's so much calmer and

274
00:13:17.220 --> 00:13:18.779
there's just a warmth there.

275
00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.980
And I think at that moment, you know, the character is that

276
00:13:22.980 --> 00:13:25.740
different and there's a completely new side to her.

277
00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:27.899
And so by that time, I'm completely on board.

278
00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:29.639
Yeah, yeah.

279
00:13:29.700 --> 00:13:32.759
I think that that seems a little bit on the nose in places.

280
00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:34.679
Like, Donna's given.

281
00:13:34.740 --> 00:13:36.659
You seem to be drifting.

282
00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:41.220
Yeah, it's all just a little bit kind of too obvious, but just the

283
00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:42.899
warmth between the 2 characters.

284
00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:48.059
It's not just the fact that Wilf loves Donna, that sells Donna to

285
00:13:48.059 --> 00:13:48.240
us.

286
00:13:48.299 --> 00:13:50.220
It's that Donna loves Wilf as well.

287
00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:54.480
And the 2 of them have this little oasis outside where they can

288
00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:59.460
escape being nagged by Sylvia because Sylvia nags Wilf as well.

289
00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:01.740
Like, she's all over Wilf too.

290
00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:05.580
I think we discover later that she won't let him have a webcam.

291
00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:08.399
You know, she's...

292
00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:12.299
Later on, she's sort of bustling him out the door and telling him

293
00:14:12.299 --> 00:14:14.460
to get outside with his thermos and things.

294
00:14:14.580 --> 00:14:21.179
And, you know, she's his daughter. but she sort of bosses him

295
00:14:21.179 --> 00:14:23.220
around and kind of doesn't really respect him.

296
00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:25.139
I love the family dynamic.

297
00:14:25.379 --> 00:14:29.340
And it's the thing that Russell does so incredibly well.

298
00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:32.940
I mean, you know, that's what Russell brings to the show.

299
00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:34.799
I've been missing that ever since.

300
00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:39.600
Yeah, I think, you know, Chipnell has learned from the best and

301
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:45.240
has certainly attempted to do that with Yaz's family, with some

302
00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:47.279
success, I think, but they're just not in it enough.

303
00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:48.299
Yeah, they're not in enough.

304
00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:53.220
I think Yaz's mum is played by an actress who could deliver if she

305
00:14:53.220 --> 00:14:54.240
was given some material.

306
00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:55.559
Pilate.

307
00:14:55.620 --> 00:14:59.159
But I think Jackie King playing Sylvia.

308
00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:01.080
She's responsible for a lot of that Walt.

309
00:15:01.139 --> 00:15:04.200
She really manages to convey the fact that this is not a mean

310
00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:08.639
woman at her heart, that she just acts cruelly and doesn't even

311
00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:09.059
realise it.

312
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:10.919
Yeah, is that relationship.

313
00:15:10.980 --> 00:15:14.039
We do get to see her out on the town with the Wednesday girls and

314
00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:15.179
she's there. person.

315
00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:16.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

316
00:15:16.259 --> 00:15:17.820
And she's wonderful in that too.

317
00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:24.120
And it's a return of having the family menaced by the aliens, which

318
00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:24.539
is great.

319
00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:32.399
I have always read the way that she behaves post Runaway bride

320
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:33.299
as.

321
00:15:34.860 --> 00:15:40.860
This is like she's nastier in series 4 at the beginning than she

322
00:15:40.860 --> 00:15:42.179
is in Runner Boy Bride.

323
00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:45.240
And I think that's, I read that as her husband's died.

324
00:15:45.299 --> 00:15:50.100
She's, yeah, gone through trauma. and she's putting on this sort

325
00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:55.679
of angry face because that's the way she's getting through the

326
00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:56.220
day.

327
00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:57.179
I agree with you.

328
00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:01.379
And but also to say, you know, he's gone and you got to live your

329
00:16:01.379 --> 00:16:02.639
life and what are you doing?

330
00:16:02.700 --> 00:16:03.539
Yeah.

331
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:05.220
It's it's kind of funny, isn't it?

332
00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:06.659
Because the seams show a little bit.

333
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:10.379
They don't talk about the death of Jeff until later in the

334
00:16:10.379 --> 00:16:10.860
season.

335
00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:14.759
It does get a mention and obviously it's mentioned in the end of

336
00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:18.840
time part 2 in a scene which just never fails to make me bore my

337
00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:19.440
eyes out.

338
00:16:19.500 --> 00:16:21.120
Oh, lovely.

339
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:24.120
I won't dwell or not here or we'll be a mess.

340
00:16:24.419 --> 00:16:30.059
But when Wilf says, you know, you've had a difficult year to Donna

341
00:16:30.059 --> 00:16:34.860
it's that funny old Christmas and poor old what's his name, Lance

342
00:16:34.860 --> 00:16:40.139
but not, and plus your dad died, because they aren't rewriting the

343
00:16:40.139 --> 00:16:43.559
script at this point, they're just getting him in to kind of

344
00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:44.940
reshoot those scenes.

345
00:16:44.940 --> 00:16:48.539
And maybe it might have been worth saying something like that

346
00:16:48.539 --> 00:16:49.200
early on.

347
00:16:49.259 --> 00:16:52.740
I don't think it, I don't think it's a problem.

348
00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:56.460
I think for us who've seen her before and the dad we can read into

349
00:16:56.460 --> 00:16:56.700
that.

350
00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:57.720
Yeah, yeah.

351
00:16:57.779 --> 00:17:03.120
But also, I read that as, because at the time I had not read that

352
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:05.940
he had died. until after I'd seen the episode.

353
00:17:06.059 --> 00:17:09.180
I read that as, oh, the character's gone, but they're not talking

354
00:17:09.180 --> 00:17:11.940
about it because they're being very British and avoiding dealing

355
00:17:11.940 --> 00:17:13.259
with the emotion.

356
00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:14.039
Yeah, yes.

357
00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:16.079
So I think it works either way.

358
00:17:16.140 --> 00:17:16.740
Yeah.

359
00:17:16.740 --> 00:17:20.279
Like, it could be that they're just avoiding talking about that

360
00:17:20.279 --> 00:17:22.619
because it's just too hard for them to cope with because he has

361
00:17:22.619 --> 00:17:23.339
just died.

362
00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:26.519
And those are the scenes that that actor did.

363
00:17:26.579 --> 00:17:29.579
Like those were actually shot, weren't they?

364
00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:32.039
They exist, they might be...

365
00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:32.759
They're on the extras.

366
00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:33.240
Yeah, yeah.

367
00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:35.519
I think there's something unsaid there maybe as well.

368
00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:38.640
When Donna's explaining to the doctor and she says, you know, I

369
00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:41.640
was going to go off and enjoy life, I was going to go and run

370
00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:44.700
around the pyramids barefoot, is what she's not saying, the fact

371
00:17:44.700 --> 00:17:47.759
that she started to do that, but then had to come home because her

372
00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:48.599
father was ill.

373
00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:50.220
I mean she's just not addressing that at all.

374
00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:52.140
I mean, it works.

375
00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:55.980
It does work in a way, and it is, again, Russell's just incredible

376
00:17:55.980 --> 00:18:02.339
insight into people, because that's how resolutions work, isn't

377
00:18:02.339 --> 00:18:02.940
it?

378
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:06.059
We all kind of say this year I'm going to do this.

379
00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:10.619
This year I'm going to, you know, lose a kilogram every evening

380
00:18:10.619 --> 00:18:11.099
this year.

381
00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:13.380
You know, I've got a little tablet.

382
00:18:13.500 --> 00:18:16.319
This year I'm going to exercise this year.

383
00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:19.740
I'm going to be nicer to the dog, you know, all of those things

384
00:18:19.740 --> 00:18:22.799
and then life takes over and it doesn't happen.

385
00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:25.200
Wait, you're going to be nicer to your dog.

386
00:18:25.259 --> 00:18:26.339
Yeah, no it's not possible.

387
00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:35.880
I think two, you know, there is that change in the way that Donna

388
00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:41.400
is portrayed, where she doesn't do quite so much shoutiness, you

389
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:44.279
know, in the other plot, in the non-family plot, in the proper

390
00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:46.019
sort of science fiction-y plot.

391
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:50.220
Uh, she is sort of just much cleverer.

392
00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:52.500
And that was the thing that Lance said, you know, she couldn't

393
00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:53.700
find Germany on a map.

394
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:58.920
But she is clever and she's good with people and they've obviously

395
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:01.019
given her an environment that she's used to.

396
00:19:01.140 --> 00:19:04.559
She's a temp, so here she is infiltrating an office.

397
00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:11.400
Um, And I guess the big moment at the end is where the doctor

398
00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:16.440
realises that he and Donna are the same, you know, he needs 2 of

399
00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:21.059
these tablets in order to defeat Matron Foster's dastardly plan

400
00:19:21.059 --> 00:19:24.420
but he doesn't have one and he thinks that everyone's going to

401
00:19:24.420 --> 00:19:24.779
die.

402
00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:29.519
But of course, Donna has one for exactly the same reason that he

403
00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:35.160
has one because they're the same, you know, and together they are

404
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:38.940
you know, they're given a photo defeat, whom they can only defeat

405
00:19:38.940 --> 00:19:39.480
together.

406
00:19:39.539 --> 00:19:41.579
Yeah, because they've done the same thing.

407
00:19:41.700 --> 00:19:45.180
I love that shot too, when the camera pulls in and out and they

408
00:19:45.180 --> 00:19:46.019
move back and forward.

409
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:47.819
Yeah, the Hitchcock shot.

410
00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:50.579
Yeah. it's a bit leisurely isn't it?

411
00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:51.900
Do you know what I mean?

412
00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:55.259
A 1000000 people are dying, but Donna gets to kind of make a big

413
00:19:55.259 --> 00:19:55.619
point.

414
00:19:55.680 --> 00:20:00.299
Doesn't she even pause 3 seconds looking pleased with the self

415
00:19:59.099 --> 00:20:00.299
proportionate?

416
00:20:01.259 --> 00:20:05.339
And even, even, even the pull Zoom is leisurely.

417
00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:06.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

418
00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:08.640
Very kind of...

419
00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:10.380
They've only got so much track.

420
00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:14.099
Yeah, they couldn't do that too quickly.

421
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:16.200
They'd go flying into the back of the studio.

422
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:18.539
Exactly, take an eye out of Phil Collinson.

423
00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:20.759
The other thing that they introduce.

424
00:20:20.819 --> 00:20:24.599
And it is sort of there in the runaway bride, but I think it's

425
00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:28.980
going to be Donna's biggest feature for the entire season is how

426
00:20:28.980 --> 00:20:30.180
compassionate she is.

427
00:20:30.660 --> 00:20:36.539
How incredibly deeply she feels for other people.

428
00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:40.680
And we will talk more about this next week and the week after, but

429
00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:42.299
it comes up over and over again.

430
00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:46.980
And it's in that scene with Stacy, which I just think is so

431
00:20:46.980 --> 00:20:47.940
great.

432
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:52.559
So the doctor and Donna, of course, go and interview someone who's

433
00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:53.400
taking the pills.

434
00:20:53.460 --> 00:20:56.460
Their plan to infiltrate is exactly identical.

435
00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:59.759
The doctor goes to see Sir Roger, who doesn't seem to be

436
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:01.980
particularly fat, but maybe he's been taking the pills for a

437
00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:02.220
while.

438
00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.140
Well, he, a kilo a day.

439
00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:06.599
He must have been on it for like 30 days at least.

440
00:21:06.660 --> 00:21:08.279
Because he's very thin.

441
00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:09.599
He is very thin.

442
00:21:09.660 --> 00:21:12.240
And then she goes and sees Stacy.

443
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:17.519
And it's so such a rustly thing to have the detail that Stacy, who

444
00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:23.339
is still fat and still like not conventionally attractive, and

445
00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:26.700
wearing kind of daggy makeup and stuff.

446
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:28.140
I think she looks fabulous.

447
00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:31.019
But um, and she's not going on a date.

448
00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:31.980
She hasn't decided.

449
00:21:32.099 --> 00:21:32.880
I've lost all this weight.

450
00:21:32.940 --> 00:21:34.740
I'm gonna go and get myself a man now.

451
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:36.599
It's like I've lost all this weight.

452
00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:38.759
I'm going to dump this guy and get someone better.

453
00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:40.559
But Donna assumes that.

454
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:42.779
It's so good.

455
00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:44.640
And Stacy is wonderful.

456
00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:46.440
That whole scene is so real.

457
00:21:46.500 --> 00:21:48.779
Well, it's what Russell does best.

458
00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:52.440
I mean, those 2 characters, they're drafted in like 3 or 4 lines

459
00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:55.319
and you totally know them in their entire lives.

460
00:21:55.380 --> 00:22:01.740
But also something that Russell does a lot, which is...

461
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:02.940
Well, there's that, yes.

462
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.720
But making you love a character in a few lines and then horribly

463
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:07.500
murdering.

464
00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:08.279
Yeah, yeah.

465
00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:16.500
Can we also talk just as a little addendum about the 2 people in

466
00:22:16.500 --> 00:22:20.579
the call centre for adipos wearing their headsets because Russell

467
00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:21.240
always does this.

468
00:22:21.299 --> 00:22:24.839
He loves casting, attractive young people working in call centres

469
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:28.140
with headsets and things on, who then interact with the regulars

470
00:22:28.140 --> 00:22:29.579
and one of them will always fancy the doctor.

471
00:22:29.940 --> 00:22:34.319
There's actually there's a line in there that's almost almost a

472
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:36.059
reference to Paradise Towers.

473
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:36.720
Really?

474
00:22:36.779 --> 00:22:39.779
When, you know, UB Health, RB safety.

475
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:40.319
Okay?

476
00:22:40.380 --> 00:22:44.519
He says, oh, that's against paragraph 9, subsection C.

477
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:49.019
That is that's actually quite a saucy come on, isn't it?

478
00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:52.319
It's like, is she, is she, are they going to time what another

479
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:52.740
arm?

480
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:54.119
Is that what she has in mind?

481
00:22:54.299 --> 00:22:57.960
And then, of course, you know, he has to come back to her.

482
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.759
But it is cute how cute those 2 people are.

483
00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:05.099
And, you know, again, it works.

484
00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:07.559
They're slightly different from one another in exactly the way

485
00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:10.920
they approach the tone of their approach, but basically they're

486
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:11.579
doing the same thing.

487
00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:16.079
It's a real throwback to army of ghosts with Adiola and her 2 cute

488
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:16.859
sidekicks.

489
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:17.579
Yes, yeah.

490
00:23:17.579 --> 00:23:20.220
We all know what happened to them.

491
00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:25.740
But it's so sad that Stacy gets horribly killed.

492
00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:28.680
And like that whole scene when it's all happening is that adipose

493
00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:30.240
are coming out and thinking, oh my goodness.

494
00:23:30.299 --> 00:23:34.740
And then, it appears, and you can't help but love it.

495
00:23:34.859 --> 00:23:39.119
Yeah, it's Russell doing that incredible pivot that he does from

496
00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:42.480
sadness to comedy because they're funny.

497
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:47.160
And just the one, the one that's in the sink, like that, that's

498
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:50.759
kind of pushes open the casement window and then just drops out

499
00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:52.920
the window after sort of waving goodbye.

500
00:23:52.980 --> 00:23:54.960
Well, if the happiness patrol taught us anything.

501
00:23:55.019 --> 00:23:57.539
It's the happiness and sadness are 2 sides of the same choice.

502
00:23:58.019 --> 00:24:02.819
But it's just so cute from the, from the waving at fat to the

503
00:24:02.819 --> 00:24:07.259
skipping, to the sliding down, tooth, tooth bang, just sliding

504
00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:09.119
down on the, the, the cab.

505
00:24:09.180 --> 00:24:10.980
To getting run over by the cab.

506
00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:13.200
Do you think?

507
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:18.240
Do you think that when they came up with massive for Lord of the

508
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:21.000
Rings, they thought that one day that it was going to be used to

509
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.160
anime, tiny little fat creature?

510
00:24:23.220 --> 00:24:23.759
Yeah, yeah.

511
00:24:23.819 --> 00:24:29.640
So massive is like a software package that enables you to create

512
00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:31.680
crowd scenes.

513
00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:34.140
And so it was used in Lord of the Rings to create all the orcs and

514
00:24:34.140 --> 00:24:35.099
all of that sort of thing.

515
00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:35.940
And here.

516
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:41.279
So we've never had quite so many little monsters and things kind

517
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:43.079
of walking around in the street.

518
00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:45.900
And you can see that they're all slightly different from one

519
00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:46.380
another.

520
00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:47.460
They all move differently.

521
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:51.180
They all look the same, but just creating a sort of convincing

522
00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:52.440
milling crowd of things.

523
00:24:52.500 --> 00:24:57.900
And that's the 1st time Doctor Who uses that, we've had CGI

524
00:24:57.900 --> 00:25:02.279
creatures before, but not sort of quite so many of...

525
00:25:02.339 --> 00:25:03.420
Yeah, yeah.

526
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:07.680
And, and like Russell based them, didn't he, on, there was an ad

527
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:13.019
for like a breath freshener or something that had tiny animated

528
00:25:13.019 --> 00:25:16.019
like a little animated donut and a little animated slice of pizza

529
00:25:16.019 --> 00:25:19.259
that sort of skipped along and they were sort of supposed to be

530
00:25:19.259 --> 00:25:22.740
cute, but were actually somehow really rather horrific.

531
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:25.859
He claims he based them on the Pillsby doughboy.

532
00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:27.180
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.

533
00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:27.539
Yeah.

534
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:31.079
But I mean, they're just, they're tremendously great, aren't

535
00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:31.319
they?

536
00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:35.220
And it's nice that they're not a threat to...

537
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:39.900
I don't buy a lot of Doctor Who merchandise in terms of like some

538
00:25:39.900 --> 00:25:43.019
people go for little Doctor Who figurines and stuff and I just, it

539
00:25:43.019 --> 00:25:44.039
just doesn't interest me.

540
00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:46.019
But I bought an adipose.

541
00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:47.099
Oh, well, yes.

542
00:25:47.099 --> 00:25:49.559
The only thing I've got, which one?

543
00:25:49.619 --> 00:25:53.339
The latex one, the fluffy one or the glow in the dark one.

544
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:55.380
Well, it's getting a little bit personal, James.

545
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:57.779
Why not all pushy toy?

546
00:25:58.140 --> 00:26:01.019
There was one which was like a stress ball.

547
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:03.240
Because maybe that's stressful material?

548
00:26:03.299 --> 00:26:03.660
Yeah, yeah.

549
00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:14.039
So there's 2 other characters I'd like to talk about.

550
00:26:14.099 --> 00:26:16.380
One is Penny and one is Miss Foster.

551
00:26:16.500 --> 00:26:21.599
So if we go with Penny first, apparently Russell had planned a

552
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:25.500
companion called Penny, when he didn't know that, um, Catherine

553
00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:26.460
Tate was going to come back.

554
00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:30.420
And so we've got an investigative journalist here called Penny

555
00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:33.119
who's probably not the same character as probably what's left of

556
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:35.460
what he developed.

557
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:39.359
But I just think it's hilarious that she keeps getting tied up all

558
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:41.519
the time and discovered.

559
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:42.960
And I just, I just laugh.

560
00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:45.240
I don't know when everything happens to her.

561
00:26:45.299 --> 00:26:47.819
I just think you poor sad woman.

562
00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:51.900
So Russell's idea of the next companion was always going to be

563
00:26:51.900 --> 00:26:55.740
that she was older and that there wouldn't be a romantic

564
00:26:55.740 --> 00:26:58.259
relationship between the doctor and the companion.

565
00:26:58.319 --> 00:26:59.640
That was always going to be the thing.

566
00:26:59.700 --> 00:27:01.740
She was going to be in her 30s.

567
00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:05.759
I think in the writer's tale, Russell imagined that if it wasn't

568
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:09.900
the BBC, she would be smoking, she would have recently had a

569
00:27:09.900 --> 00:27:11.640
relationship breakup, I think.

570
00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:16.140
And so it was going to be a little bit more kind of adult.

571
00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:19.980
And she described her as strong-willed in the vein of Donna

572
00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:20.460
Noble.

573
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:21.119
Yeah, yeah.

574
00:27:21.180 --> 00:27:23.460
Yeah, well, this sounds like surrogate for Donna, doesn't it?

575
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:24.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

576
00:27:24.599 --> 00:27:24.900
Yeah.

577
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:26.160
So, Penny.

578
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:29.640
And there's a sort of feint, isn't there, where we think that Miss

579
00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:37.200
Foster has twigged that Donna has infiltrated adipose industries

580
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:40.500
and she keeps talking about she and we'll wait and we'll get her

581
00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:41.579
and all of that sort of thing.

582
00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:45.240
And then Donna's hidden in the toilet, where she has that

583
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:47.940
fantastic conversation with Sylvia over the phone.

584
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:53.160
She's hidden in the toilet and then Miss Foster and her attractive

585
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:57.180
bodyguard and her 2nd even more attractive bodyguard come in.

586
00:27:57.180 --> 00:28:00.539
And we think that Don has been rumbled and Donna thinks that she's

587
00:28:00.539 --> 00:28:01.140
been rumbled.

588
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.380
But it turns out that Penny's been hiding in the loo, just sort of

589
00:28:04.380 --> 00:28:05.880
2 or 3 cubicles are.

590
00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:09.119
It's almost as if the casting director was gay.

591
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:14.039
I like the fact that because Donna was whispering on the phone

592
00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:16.619
that Penny 2 cubicles away didn't know she was there.

593
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:18.000
Well, she was whispering.

594
00:28:18.059 --> 00:28:19.319
Also, did you notice?

595
00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:22.619
On the back of the door and in the toilets, there's actually a

596
00:28:22.619 --> 00:28:24.359
sign for the restaurant her mother's eating him.

597
00:28:24.420 --> 00:28:25.500
Oh, really?

598
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:25.859
Okay.

599
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:26.339
Okay, okay.

600
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:27.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

601
00:28:27.180 --> 00:28:27.599
Whoops.

602
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:30.660
The little one down the bottom saying, PS, the stars are going

603
00:28:30.660 --> 00:28:30.839
out.

604
00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:34.079
And did you notice the bees?

605
00:28:34.140 --> 00:28:36.720
Ah, yeah, we get the bees.

606
00:28:36.779 --> 00:28:38.279
So what do we have?

607
00:28:38.339 --> 00:28:39.480
Let's do a checklist.

608
00:28:39.539 --> 00:28:42.900
What do we have of the sort of arc concepts here?

609
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:47.339
We have the doctor and Donna are the same, which is not as

610
00:28:47.339 --> 00:28:50.759
explicit as it becomes later, but it's the thrust of the episode.

611
00:28:50.819 --> 00:28:52.259
We have the bees.

612
00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:55.200
He talks about the shadow proclamation.

613
00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:56.339
The shadow proclamation.

614
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:00.359
Adipose 3 has gone... has disappeared, a planet has gone missing.

615
00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:04.079
And it's quite funny, actually, because it talks about the 1st

616
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:07.259
family losing one of their breeding planets.

617
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:10.559
And then she says, but I don't go into the politics of it as if

618
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:13.319
they've lost it in some kind of border dispute.

619
00:29:13.380 --> 00:29:16.380
Yeah, to sort of throw you off the scent in a way.

620
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:20.400
And then, of course, you've got the big reveal, the end of the

621
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:23.220
episode, which was successfully kept hidden at the time.

622
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:25.200
So how did they do that, Peter?

623
00:29:25.259 --> 00:29:28.440
They edited that scene out of the previews that were shown to the

624
00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:28.680
press.

625
00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:30.779
Also, it was filmed a lot later.

626
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:32.460
It was filmed with turn left.

627
00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:33.420
Was?

628
00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:33.839
Yes.

629
00:29:33.900 --> 00:29:34.319
Okay.

630
00:29:34.380 --> 00:29:39.480
So that's where Donna is dropping the keys in the bin, which again

631
00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:43.259
I think is just wonderful in a little low-key way that she can

632
00:29:43.259 --> 00:29:45.660
torment Sylvia in revenge.

633
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:48.660
Make your fish around in the garden.

634
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:52.500
She had to buy new car because the bins had been empty.

635
00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:58.019
It's good that Rose doesn't get any lines because I think she was

636
00:29:58.019 --> 00:29:59.460
probably still working in those dentures.

637
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:02.759
She looks very weird.

638
00:30:02.819 --> 00:30:06.299
It is a sort of odd shot, but I do like it and the music is sort

639
00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:07.079
of particularly good.

640
00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:09.960
And then having her walk away and vanish as she walks away.

641
00:30:10.019 --> 00:30:11.640
And it's got a real resonance.

642
00:30:11.700 --> 00:30:14.700
If you're not expecting Rose to turn up, that is a massive shock.

643
00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:17.220
No, I certainly remember being shocked by it.

644
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:18.299
Yeah, chills.

645
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:19.740
Yeah, yeah.

646
00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:21.960
Yeah, you kind of you caught your breath, didn't you?

647
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:27.180
It's one of the better reveals of...

648
00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:30.779
And it's wonderfully shot because the hold on in close-up on the

649
00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:31.740
back of her head.

650
00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:35.579
You are there calculating in real time going, is that, is that?

651
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:37.259
And then she turns it is.

652
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:41.880
It's funny, it's hard to believe that Russell didn't go into this

653
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:46.259
knowing that this would be his final full season because so many

654
00:30:46.259 --> 00:30:49.980
things happen this year, you know, that make you think that he's

655
00:30:49.980 --> 00:30:51.839
kind of rounding everything off.

656
00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:55.500
Does he know at this stage that he's not doing a season next

657
00:30:55.500 --> 00:30:55.740
year?

658
00:30:56.039 --> 00:31:00.420
I think he probably does because wasn't Stephen Moth that approach

659
00:31:00.420 --> 00:31:03.539
to take over in early 2008.

660
00:31:03.779 --> 00:31:05.519
So they would have still been shooting the season.

661
00:31:05.579 --> 00:31:11.460
Yeah, they were prepping series 5 from, was it, like early to mid

662
00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:12.180
2008.

663
00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:17.579
They'd actually started pre-production on the 5th series whilst

664
00:31:17.579 --> 00:31:19.559
they were filming series 4.

665
00:31:19.859 --> 00:31:24.299
And then, you know, gave him an extra year to do it.

666
00:31:24.420 --> 00:31:25.259
Yeah.

667
00:31:25.259 --> 00:31:30.779
So, like, which is why they spaced out the, the special 5 episodes

668
00:31:30.779 --> 00:31:32.279
over the following year.

669
00:31:32.339 --> 00:31:35.700
It's the longest production run of the new series still, isn't

670
00:31:35.700 --> 00:31:35.880
it?

671
00:31:36.059 --> 00:31:39.059
Like, from the beginning, before which of the damned to the next

672
00:31:39.059 --> 00:31:39.420
doctor.

673
00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:40.200
Yeah.

674
00:31:40.259 --> 00:31:43.740
Well, actually, no, isn't it all the way through to the end of

675
00:31:43.740 --> 00:31:44.099
time?

676
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:48.059
I, no, I, I may be wrong, but I think that there's a big break

677
00:31:48.059 --> 00:31:51.779
between um, the next doctor and Planet of Fair, because I think

678
00:31:51.779 --> 00:31:55.200
that's when David Tennant is um, Hamlet.

679
00:31:55.259 --> 00:31:55.980
Yeah.

680
00:31:56.039 --> 00:31:59.700
And is he still deciding whether to stay at that point or is

681
00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:00.299
he...

682
00:32:00.539 --> 00:32:00.779
Yes.

683
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:03.720
Stephen Moffatt talks about the fact that he had discussions with

684
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:08.099
David, and David, who had decided to go with Russell, was wavering

685
00:32:08.099 --> 00:32:10.859
and thinking, maybe I will come back for one more season, and

686
00:32:10.859 --> 00:32:16.559
Stephen had plans to make season five, David's last season, and we

687
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:19.559
have just had to have made minor tweaks to the arc to make it

688
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:19.740
work.

689
00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:20.579
Right, right.

690
00:32:28.019 --> 00:32:32.819
At 2346, the greatest comic moment in the history of Doctor Who

691
00:32:32.819 --> 00:32:33.359
occurs.

692
00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:35.940
I know where you're going with this.

693
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:41.579
Obviously, it's the doctor and Donna discovering each other across

694
00:32:41.579 --> 00:32:45.299
from the windows and mouthing their whole conversation.

695
00:32:45.299 --> 00:32:46.980
At the time, it was...

696
00:32:46.980 --> 00:32:48.720
I took my breath away.

697
00:32:48.779 --> 00:32:51.480
It took my breath away, and I just couldn't stop laughing.

698
00:32:51.539 --> 00:32:53.039
And that is old, Donna.

699
00:32:53.099 --> 00:32:55.380
That's big old, loud donner, isn't it?

700
00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:59.339
But they, you know, it's engineered in such a way that she can't

701
00:32:59.339 --> 00:33:03.299
actually be loud because she can't be hurt, but she's doing these

702
00:33:03.299 --> 00:33:05.400
big, you know, reactions.

703
00:33:05.460 --> 00:33:09.180
They actually add-libbed that on the day.

704
00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:09.779
Really?

705
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:12.779
I mean, it was planned for them to do that interaction, but

706
00:33:12.779 --> 00:33:14.700
they're not sticking to the script at all.

707
00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:16.019
I love her.

708
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:20.339
I read it on the internet and her miming the internet by doing

709
00:33:20.339 --> 00:33:22.619
sort of exaggerated typewriter thing.

710
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:24.839
Like a massive muppety gaping faces.

711
00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:25.980
And she says, no.

712
00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:29.099
She just holds it far beyond what any normal human would.

713
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:30.059
It's amazing.

714
00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:33.119
And the doctor's reaction is super weird as well.

715
00:33:33.180 --> 00:33:36.059
It's kind of like, he's not really that excited.

716
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:38.880
Oh, hurricane.

717
00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:43.019
We talked a little bit last year about how David Tennant's kind of

718
00:33:43.019 --> 00:33:46.140
blazing performance sometimes overshadowed Freemaragements.

719
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:47.819
I don't think there's any danger of that.

720
00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:54.599
Actually, in some ways, her being quite a strong willed actor

721
00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:57.000
levels him out a bit.

722
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:04.259
He actually brings his performance down because she is so animated

723
00:34:04.259 --> 00:34:11.219
and so front in the scene that he actually steps back and lets her

724
00:34:11.219 --> 00:34:13.559
play quite a lot.

725
00:34:13.619 --> 00:34:16.559
I don't completely agree with you Not all the time, but I actually

726
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:20.880
think that you're right in that he lets her play, but I then think

727
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:24.179
it does have impacts during the season as I've been watching that

728
00:34:24.179 --> 00:34:27.659
his performance that we always think about all of his teeth, gnarly

729
00:34:27.659 --> 00:34:30.719
and all of his over the top stuff, which I remember is really

730
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:31.860
front and centre this season.

731
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:35.039
It gets worse as the season goes along, in my opinion.

732
00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:37.920
I seem to remember getting sick of some of his ticks.

733
00:34:37.980 --> 00:34:41.699
That thing where he glues his tongue to the roof of his mouth when

734
00:34:41.699 --> 00:34:44.460
he's speaking and just a few other things, which I just kind of

735
00:34:44.460 --> 00:34:48.179
think, you know, those things are a bit tiresome.

736
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:52.260
And I have heard people suggest that it's a bit of a vicious

737
00:34:52.260 --> 00:34:56.400
circle that they or a sort of positive feedback loop that they

738
00:34:56.400 --> 00:34:58.199
outbig each other a little bit.

739
00:34:58.260 --> 00:35:01.860
But I do think that they work well together and you're not going

740
00:35:01.860 --> 00:35:05.639
to get a restrained performance from tenant as the doctor.

741
00:35:05.699 --> 00:35:09.000
His shtick is that he'll do that occasionally in moments of great

742
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:15.360
emotion, but mostly he's being big and it is even in story.

743
00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:16.679
It's a performance.

744
00:35:16.739 --> 00:35:19.019
You know, the doctor is a mask.

745
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:22.139
The doctor is a performance, and it's tenant that kind of

746
00:35:22.139 --> 00:35:23.579
introduces that.

747
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:26.639
And so having these sort of 2 big characters.

748
00:35:26.699 --> 00:35:28.980
I just think they're really enjoyable to watch and so maybe I

749
00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:29.519
don't care.

750
00:35:29.699 --> 00:35:31.500
Super enjoyable.

751
00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:33.059
Yeah, I find tenet irritating.

752
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:35.039
I've said this before from time to time.

753
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:39.360
But watching this season watching ahead, I haven't got quite to

754
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:40.019
the end yet.

755
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:44.880
But I am finding watching the 2 of them together really, really

756
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:46.619
quite enjoyable.

757
00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:50.519
It's so great that they hold it to like 20 minutes into the

758
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:52.559
episode because it just pays off in spades.

759
00:35:52.619 --> 00:35:54.300
You just want them to be together.

760
00:35:54.360 --> 00:36:00.480
And of course, they're stopped by recognising that Miss Foster has

761
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:01.260
caught on.

762
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:04.199
And I think she gives a wonderful performance as Supernanny.

763
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:08.280
Well, in fact, there's that Donna is in the middle of pulling a

764
00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:12.900
face when she notices, when she notices Miss Foster, and she just

765
00:36:12.900 --> 00:36:13.800
holds that look.

766
00:36:13.860 --> 00:36:16.199
And you're left sort of going, how long?

767
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:19.559
They actually been watching them at this conversation.

768
00:36:19.619 --> 00:36:23.280
And you can see the performance working there because a little bit

769
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:25.500
earlier when Donna catches sight of the doctor.

770
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:28.079
They're both focussed on what Miss Foster is doing.

771
00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:30.539
There's no need for them just to take a look around.

772
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:33.480
And so Catherine Tate does this thing where she does just a, oh

773
00:36:33.480 --> 00:36:36.420
I'm bored now, kind of glance askew, and that's where she notices

774
00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:37.199
the doctor.

775
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:38.280
That's great.

776
00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:41.940
He's like, let's talk about Miss Foster then.

777
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.219
She has a sonic device.

778
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:44.940
She does.

779
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:47.519
And when you put 2 sonic devices together.

780
00:36:47.579 --> 00:36:48.840
Hilarity ensures.

781
00:36:48.900 --> 00:36:51.059
It's it's kind of funny.

782
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:54.900
We've probably forgotten the super nanny because that's 10, 11

783
00:36:54.900 --> 00:36:55.920
years ago now.

784
00:36:55.980 --> 00:37:00.239
But the super nanny had those black rimmed glasses.

785
00:37:00.300 --> 00:37:02.099
Do you remember the show?

786
00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:03.119
Yeah.

787
00:37:03.179 --> 00:37:09.900
Yeah, um, I think I was living in the UK at the time series 4 was

788
00:37:09.900 --> 00:37:10.199
on.

789
00:37:10.260 --> 00:37:12.960
Yeah, no, I was living in the UK at the time, so I had seen Super

790
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:14.940
Danny on television.

791
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:16.320
So I got out here.

792
00:37:16.380 --> 00:37:17.940
It was on out here and it was huge.

793
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:19.260
I didn't have Foxtell.

794
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:19.619
Right.

795
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:21.239
Super Nanny was big.

796
00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:25.860
And I used to love it because, you know, I don't have children and

797
00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:27.539
it used to make me feel really great about that.

798
00:37:28.860 --> 00:37:32.760
And I was in a position where I could side with the children and

799
00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:36.360
it was sort of painfully obvious to me that their poor behaviour

800
00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:38.880
was always the result of the parents' bad parenting.

801
00:37:38.940 --> 00:37:43.920
And then one of those genres of reality TV that I really like is

802
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:48.780
where someone nice comes in and helps people kind of deal with a

803
00:37:48.780 --> 00:37:49.860
horrific situation.

804
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:55.440
And so Marie Kondo and perhaps, you know, nothing more than queer

805
00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:00.119
eye, which is just 5 sweet, lovely men come in and help you fix

806
00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:00.780
your life.

807
00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:03.420
I just love that genre of TV.

808
00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:05.340
So I was a bit of a fan of the super nanny.

809
00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:07.860
Russell was deliberately referencing that.

810
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:11.880
I think he described the characters cross between Supernanny and

811
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:12.840
Ava Perron.

812
00:38:14.340 --> 00:38:19.019
Well, when she puts her arms up, like to be taken away and

813
00:38:19.019 --> 00:38:20.820
then...

814
00:38:20.820 --> 00:38:22.320
And then her wily coyote moment.

815
00:38:22.380 --> 00:38:23.159
Oh my god.

816
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:30.480
And she, she, Sarah Lancashire said, I kind of saw her as an evil

817
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:32.579
version of Mary Poppins.

818
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:33.360
Yeah.

819
00:38:33.420 --> 00:38:34.079
Yeah.

820
00:38:34.139 --> 00:38:35.579
No, it's fantastic.

821
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:39.300
I, like, I think she's one of the best one-off villain

822
00:38:39.300 --> 00:38:40.199
characters.

823
00:38:40.739 --> 00:38:43.980
It's a very Sarah Jane villain, isn't it?

824
00:38:44.039 --> 00:38:46.739
Like that sort of woman with her sort of hair tied back and

825
00:38:46.739 --> 00:38:47.579
glasses or?

826
00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:52.920
Who's the villain in time heist, Miss Del Fox, who has her law?

827
00:38:52.980 --> 00:38:53.579
Kelly Hawes.

828
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:54.119
Yeah, yeah.

829
00:38:54.179 --> 00:38:57.420
And Celia Immery in The Bells of St.

830
00:38:57.420 --> 00:38:57.780
John.

831
00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:00.000
It's a thing that we go back to, isn't it?

832
00:39:00.059 --> 00:39:01.440
A strict woman.

833
00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:02.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

834
00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:03.659
But she is the best.

835
00:39:03.719 --> 00:39:05.820
I mean, Sarah Lancashire is great.

836
00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:08.760
I mean, she was very famous from Coronation Street playing a very

837
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:09.599
popular character.

838
00:39:09.659 --> 00:39:11.159
And she's brilliant.

839
00:39:11.219 --> 00:39:14.340
And, you know, just like she's very thin compared to everybody

840
00:39:14.340 --> 00:39:14.760
else.

841
00:39:14.820 --> 00:39:17.219
And did anyone else catch the line where she says she's the

842
00:39:17.219 --> 00:39:18.480
adipose's wet nurse.

843
00:39:18.539 --> 00:39:21.059
Yes, so she's breastfeeding the adipose.

844
00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:21.960
Is that what that means?

845
00:39:22.500 --> 00:39:24.420
Oh, no.

846
00:39:24.420 --> 00:39:27.239
I didn't just notice that.

847
00:39:27.300 --> 00:39:28.619
Oh, that's terrible.

848
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:35.639
I like, um, two, it's that RTD thing where it's not alien races

849
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:38.940
that are evil, so much as sort of individual members of a

850
00:39:38.940 --> 00:39:39.480
species.

851
00:39:39.539 --> 00:39:41.820
So this is the adipose 1st family.

852
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:43.619
So they're sort of royal.

853
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:45.239
So obviously they're evil.

854
00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:48.900
And here they are sort of seeding our planet.

855
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:54.119
And then the other thing is too, every spaceship in the RTD era is

856
00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:56.280
sort of dramatically different looking.

857
00:39:56.340 --> 00:39:59.400
And here they've just gone for close encounters of the 3rd kind.

858
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:00.780
With the noise and everything.

859
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:07.860
I really think it's nice that this foster is an evil too.

860
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:11.099
At the end, she just doesn't want them to interfere with her

861
00:40:11.099 --> 00:40:11.579
plan.

862
00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:15.179
And so when she's being drawn up before her wily coyote, drop to

863
00:40:15.179 --> 00:40:18.000
earth, she says to the doctor and Donna, oh, I really hope we

864
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:19.199
won't meet again.

865
00:40:19.260 --> 00:40:22.019
It's quite palsy, really, now that she's got what she wanted.

866
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:25.619
Well, except that she does try and kill a 1000000 people at one.

867
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:27.960
But she was just doing her job.

868
00:40:28.019 --> 00:40:31.500
Oh, and that's where you lose the right to even talk to me, James.

869
00:40:34.980 --> 00:40:36.300
I don't agree with that.

870
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:40.199
But yeah, I mean, it's and that's a deliberate thing as well.

871
00:40:40.260 --> 00:40:44.219
It's like, she doesn't see herself as evil because she is just

872
00:40:44.219 --> 00:40:47.400
doing her job and no we're not going to mention the Nazis.

873
00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:51.300
A little pasta no genesis never hurt anybody.

874
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:53.159
It doesn't hurt.

875
00:40:53.219 --> 00:40:54.719
Just pop out of existence.

876
00:40:54.780 --> 00:40:57.480
And also, who wouldn't kill a 1000000 people for that degree of

877
00:40:57.480 --> 00:40:58.019
weight loss.

878
00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:02.039
Well, in fact, I think that they really do.

879
00:41:02.099 --> 00:41:05.579
Um, like the bit where the doctor says Actually, it's not a bad

880
00:41:05.579 --> 00:41:05.880
plan.

881
00:41:05.940 --> 00:41:08.880
Like, you know, imagine if she come to earth and said, I actually

882
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:12.179
have these diet pills and I promise not to kill you and make sick

883
00:41:12.179 --> 00:41:13.019
adipose.

884
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:13.920
I would have been fabulous.

885
00:41:13.980 --> 00:41:14.880
I'd have been right on it.

886
00:41:14.940 --> 00:41:18.719
And of course, it comes back later in the season as well, where

887
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:24.599
well, in turn left, where Titanic crashes into London destroys the

888
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:25.380
south of England.

889
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:30.360
And so the adipose Target America, and 60000000 people die.

890
00:41:30.420 --> 00:41:31.679
Yeah, yeah.

891
00:41:31.739 --> 00:41:36.960
So, so we do see that her plan is horrifically evil and the doctor

892
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:40.380
has to stop it, but we don't really hate her because she's sort of

893
00:41:40.380 --> 00:41:42.719
rather camp and sort of fabulous, I think.

894
00:41:42.780 --> 00:41:48.059
Let's talk about the scene where the doctor and Donna in that sort

895
00:41:48.059 --> 00:41:49.800
of cradle, the cleaning.

896
00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:50.760
The window cleaning cradle.

897
00:41:50.820 --> 00:41:51.300
Yeah, yeah.

898
00:41:51.420 --> 00:41:55.380
Because that's when we see her with her Sonic Divine.

899
00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:57.960
And it is that kind of thing where the doctor says, it'll be fine

900
00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:00.960
because she won't have a sonic device and then she would cut to

901
00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:03.000
her wielding her Sonic device.

902
00:42:03.059 --> 00:42:06.179
And stuffing up all the continuity as well.

903
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:07.199
Oh, why?

904
00:42:07.500 --> 00:42:13.199
That shot keeps accidentally being flipped either in post

905
00:42:12.300 --> 00:42:16.139
production or because they kept forgetting which way they were

906
00:42:16.139 --> 00:42:16.440
shooting.

907
00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:22.019
So, um, between shots, the why that she's cut flips.

908
00:42:22.019 --> 00:42:22.739
Oh, really?

909
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:28.260
And also the Sonic screwdriver keeps swapping sort of which way is

910
00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:29.519
oriented in David's mouth.

911
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:33.420
It is a great scene.

912
00:42:33.480 --> 00:42:35.699
Russell talks about it in the writer's tale, doesn't he?

913
00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:39.539
Because he says, this, we're going to be filming, and I'm writing

914
00:42:39.539 --> 00:42:43.800
a script where there's a lot of detailed action and not that much

915
00:42:43.800 --> 00:42:46.920
dialogue, which is something that Doctor Who hasn't been able to

916
00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:50.699
manage much before, I don't like the end of that scene.

917
00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:52.500
Oh, which end?

918
00:42:52.619 --> 00:42:55.019
Well, when Donna's hanging on for an eternity.

919
00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:57.360
I mean, she's got the best grip and arms.

920
00:42:57.420 --> 00:42:59.760
Like she should be plummeting to her death by the time the doctor

921
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:02.820
gets down and then there's a cheek to get her actually into the

922
00:43:02.820 --> 00:43:03.179
window.

923
00:43:03.239 --> 00:43:04.559
That is a terrible cheat.

924
00:43:04.619 --> 00:43:05.099
That scene.

925
00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:06.000
It's so terrible.

926
00:43:06.059 --> 00:43:07.019
Like she's hanging.

927
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:10.199
He's like one floor too low down or something.

928
00:43:10.260 --> 00:43:14.940
And so he's grabbing her by her calves and it's kind of like, she

929
00:43:14.940 --> 00:43:15.900
lets go.

930
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:17.280
How does she not plummet to a dick?

931
00:43:17.340 --> 00:43:20.159
She's got incredibly strong. calm.

932
00:43:20.219 --> 00:43:23.820
So he's got great upper body strength and he really doesn't.

933
00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:25.860
Such a thin, thin man.

934
00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:28.980
Do you remember that scene from the original Crystal Reeves

935
00:43:28.980 --> 00:43:33.119
Superman movie where he gets Lois Lane, which is falling and he

936
00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:35.639
says, don't worry, I've got you and she says, you've got me.

937
00:43:35.699 --> 00:43:36.300
Who's got you?

938
00:43:36.659 --> 00:43:37.980
Yes.

939
00:43:38.099 --> 00:43:41.699
I mean, I think they try and give Donna something to hang on to

940
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:44.039
that's sort of more substantial than just a robe.

941
00:43:44.099 --> 00:43:47.579
So to try and justify the fact that she's left hanging there for a

942
00:43:47.579 --> 00:43:47.940
long time.

943
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:49.800
But that would cut your hands up.

944
00:43:49.860 --> 00:43:53.219
But it is, it's just a sort of, it's like a piece of metal that

945
00:43:53.219 --> 00:43:54.179
doesn't seem to be sharp.

946
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:58.739
So it does give her a sort of substantial thing to hang on to, but

947
00:43:58.739 --> 00:44:01.619
keep on justifying it.

948
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:06.480
I'm sorry, I don't buy it for a second. mine is one point. for me

949
00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:06.960
for this episode.

950
00:44:07.019 --> 00:44:10.199
But it does give her time to yell about how much she hates the

951
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:13.079
doctor and to kind of regret doing what she's doing.

952
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:16.920
And it's wonderful that just a 2nd later once she's in the

953
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:17.400
building.

954
00:44:17.460 --> 00:44:20.940
All of that's gone and she's, you know, back on board and having

955
00:44:20.940 --> 00:44:21.840
sort of fun adventures.

956
00:44:21.900 --> 00:44:27.719
And that's, that's the kind of moment when you see that, the way

957
00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:31.619
that she behaved previously in the runaway bride, at least the way

958
00:44:31.619 --> 00:44:34.980
they're reconning it now, because she's a continuing character.

959
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:37.260
That was all a front.

960
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:41.760
That was all an armour that she put up against the world because

961
00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:42.960
it had hurt her a lot.

962
00:44:43.019 --> 00:44:47.880
Yeah, so maybe the runaway bride, you know, the end of the runaway

963
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:51.480
bride promises some changes for Donna, doesn't it?

964
00:44:51.539 --> 00:44:53.880
Like she's she's going to become the doctor.

965
00:44:53.940 --> 00:44:54.780
She's going to travel.

966
00:44:55.260 --> 00:44:59.159
And so bringing her back is a little bit of a disappointment in a

967
00:44:59.159 --> 00:44:59.460
way.

968
00:44:59.699 --> 00:45:03.840
But she is still a better person already.

969
00:45:03.900 --> 00:45:05.760
And she's fully prepared.

970
00:45:05.820 --> 00:45:07.320
I mean, that boot in the car.

971
00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:12.780
The hat box. love that line.

972
00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:14.699
So great, isn't it?

973
00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:16.679
And the doctor looks so miserable.

974
00:45:16.739 --> 00:45:20.099
You remember that scene, that awful scene in the 2 doctors, where

975
00:45:20.099 --> 00:45:24.239
the doctor kind of comes into the TARDIS and he's doing his sort

976
00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:27.539
of arm waving kind of blowviating thing that he does.

977
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:33.179
And then, and then Perry trudges into the Tartar's mind, carrying

978
00:45:33.179 --> 00:45:36.000
all of his crap, all of his fishing gear.

979
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:39.719
And here it's reversed, you know, the doctor has all of this

980
00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:42.480
baggage and he looks utterly miserable.

981
00:45:42.539 --> 00:45:45.179
In fact, maybe too miserable.

982
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:48.539
This is the 2nd time in 2 seasons.

983
00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:51.239
The doctors looked a little bit miserable taking someone on board

984
00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:53.219
the TARDIS in a pack alley in Cardiff.

985
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:54.300
Sorry, London.

986
00:45:55.019 --> 00:46:00.000
This has been a really interesting discussion because I've watched

987
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:03.480
this episode a number of times over the years and this was the

988
00:46:03.480 --> 00:46:05.639
hardest episode for me to watch this entire season.

989
00:46:05.699 --> 00:46:06.480
Wow.

990
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:10.139
I found it not as funny and I wasn't as connected.

991
00:46:10.199 --> 00:46:14.460
And you may recall that a few episodes ago, I dare to suggest that

992
00:46:14.460 --> 00:46:18.420
last season's opener might, I might like it more than this.

993
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:21.840
That was your reaction then too, Peter.

994
00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:23.340
And you were wrong.

995
00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:30.119
It's really interesting because I have this vision in my head that

996
00:46:30.119 --> 00:46:34.980
RTD is sitting having his typewriter having his glass of

997
00:46:34.980 --> 00:46:38.760
Chardonnay, much like the canine and company increditors, right?

998
00:46:38.820 --> 00:46:41.639
So for this one, he's starting typing away and he gets a phone

999
00:46:41.639 --> 00:46:45.719
call, he hears his sports out of the end of the phone going, hello

1000
00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:46.199
governor.

1001
00:46:46.260 --> 00:46:47.699
It's Billy Piper here.

1002
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:48.360
I can do the season.

1003
00:46:48.420 --> 00:46:49.800
And he goes, huzzah.

1004
00:46:49.860 --> 00:46:50.579
This is fantastic.

1005
00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:52.679
So he takes a swig of his wine and then he gets another phone

1006
00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:53.099
call.

1007
00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:55.500
Oh, hello, it's Catherine Tate here.

1008
00:46:55.559 --> 00:46:56.940
I can do the whole season.

1009
00:46:57.000 --> 00:46:58.320
Oh, huzzah.

1010
00:46:58.380 --> 00:47:01.860
He takes another swig of the of the wine and the stomach rumbles

1011
00:47:01.860 --> 00:47:04.920
and he goes, oh my goodness, the fat just walks away and he starts

1012
00:47:04.920 --> 00:47:07.440
typing and it's all, you know, one draft.

1013
00:47:07.500 --> 00:47:07.980
Here it is.

1014
00:47:08.039 --> 00:47:08.579
Boom.

1015
00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:09.780
He's had the family before.

1016
00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:11.039
Last season.

1017
00:47:11.099 --> 00:47:15.119
It's like, okay, so he starts off with the Chardonnay and the

1018
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:16.619
typewriter and it's like, okay.

1019
00:47:16.679 --> 00:47:20.400
Now, I've got to come up with a companion that is clever and funny

1020
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:22.260
but not rose and everybody's going to love.

1021
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:26.400
I've got to make sure that the doctor likes her, but is also, um

1022
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:31.199
missing rose still, and he has to be clever and funny, um, and, oh

1023
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:33.659
I need a villain as well that is going to be funny but threatening

1024
00:47:33.659 --> 00:47:36.420
and it's like page after page, and the sweat is coming off, and

1025
00:47:36.420 --> 00:47:38.760
he's having more and more drinks, and I've got to introduce a

1026
00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:40.619
whole new family, like a whole new family.

1027
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:42.840
And so by the end of it, it's like, you know, with Sarah Jane

1028
00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:46.440
running, it's completely sweat. sweaters everywhere, the wine

1029
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:47.280
bottle's emptied.

1030
00:47:47.340 --> 00:47:49.920
He's got a stack of papers next to him.

1031
00:47:49.980 --> 00:47:51.059
It's like draft 23.

1032
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:54.420
So I've got this image in my head that there was so much work that

1033
00:47:54.420 --> 00:47:56.579
had to be done at the beginning of last season.

1034
00:47:56.639 --> 00:48:00.059
So that script to balance all of those elements out. whereas here

1035
00:48:00.059 --> 00:48:02.039
I've got this image that it's just, oh, no, Catherine can just

1036
00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:06.900
make that up on the spot and they can just workshop that and so I

1037
00:48:06.900 --> 00:48:10.440
kind of got the feeling that it was a much sparser sort of script

1038
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:13.679
and as opposed to last year that was so heavily packed impacted.

1039
00:48:13.739 --> 00:48:18.059
But of course, yet again, talking here, and certainly earlier in

1040
00:48:18.059 --> 00:48:21.599
our conversation, I was really, really amazed at what you were

1041
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:25.619
talking about in terms of all the characters with Sylvia and Wilf

1042
00:48:25.619 --> 00:48:26.400
and all that sort of thing.

1043
00:48:26.460 --> 00:48:30.300
And so I actually came away a little bit disappointed when I

1044
00:48:30.300 --> 00:48:31.800
watched this, but again, now talking.

1045
00:48:31.860 --> 00:48:34.079
It's like, it's gone back up to a 9 again.

1046
00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:38.699
Like, it's, but I think both of them are equally as good.

1047
00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:39.840
I like both of them as much now.

1048
00:48:39.900 --> 00:48:40.800
This is fun.

1049
00:48:40.860 --> 00:48:43.260
Last year had a lot of other things that it needed to do.

1050
00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:46.739
It was harder, I think, because it is the 1st change in regular

1051
00:48:46.739 --> 00:48:50.280
cast apart from, I guess, Eccleston and Tenet.

1052
00:48:50.340 --> 00:48:54.599
But the 1st new entirely new character that he has to introduce in

1053
00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:57.780
an opener, and it just might not have worked.

1054
00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:01.739
And here he's got an established character.

1055
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:05.940
He still has to do a lot of work in order to make her more than

1056
00:49:05.940 --> 00:49:07.260
just a one-off character.

1057
00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:08.760
But that's the thing.

1058
00:49:08.820 --> 00:49:10.559
Like, she is returning.

1059
00:49:10.619 --> 00:49:14.639
We're already familiar with her. and passingly familiar with her

1060
00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:17.280
mother and would have been with her father.

1061
00:49:17.340 --> 00:49:20.639
And we are with her grandfather as well.

1062
00:49:20.699 --> 00:49:24.599
So the script doesn't have to do as much heavy lifting because

1063
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:26.940
you're already, if you're a regular viewer.

1064
00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:30.420
And Doctor Who is, you know, I mean, that that Christmas special

1065
00:49:30.420 --> 00:49:36.900
Voyage of the Damned, like, is the highest rated story of the

1066
00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:37.860
modern era.

1067
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:43.260
So, chances are, if you're watching Doctor Who, with Catherine

1068
00:49:43.260 --> 00:49:45.780
Tate returning, and this is her grandfather, you've already seen

1069
00:49:45.780 --> 00:49:46.320
that character.

1070
00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:52.079
Yeah, there are 4000000 viewers more watching Voyage of the Dam

1071
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:53.820
than there are watching this.

1072
00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:56.519
This is still very good rating for a season opener.

1073
00:49:56.639 --> 00:49:57.659
It's still top 10.

1074
00:49:57.900 --> 00:50:03.780
But I just, I do love the fact that you have got Donna talking to

1075
00:50:03.780 --> 00:50:07.980
the doctor too at the end about Rose and about Martha, and the

1076
00:50:07.980 --> 00:50:09.119
doctor even concedes.

1077
00:50:09.179 --> 00:50:12.059
Well, she fancied me. don't like that line.

1078
00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:16.440
But then there's then he kind of makes up for it by admitting I

1079
00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:17.760
destroyed half her life.

1080
00:50:17.880 --> 00:50:18.840
Yeah, yeah.

1081
00:50:18.900 --> 00:50:22.920
He's actually kind of gone. oh I was a bastard.

1082
00:50:22.980 --> 00:50:27.659
Well, it kind of works, too, because Donna is absolutely not

1083
00:50:27.659 --> 00:50:31.559
impressed because the doctor goes, you know, she fancied me as if

1084
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:34.019
we're going to think that that's cool or something.

1085
00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:36.539
She's like, oh, there must be something wrong with her.

1086
00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:37.739
That's right.

1087
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:41.760
So she relentlessly refuses to be impressed by that.

1088
00:50:41.820 --> 00:50:43.139
I think that's kind of cool.

1089
00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:46.619
And then you get the, I just want to mate line.

1090
00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:49.079
And I doesn't quite work on it.

1091
00:50:49.139 --> 00:50:50.219
Yeah, it doesn't quite work for me.

1092
00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:54.659
And I think partly it's because Catherine Tate over enunciates the

1093
00:50:54.659 --> 00:50:57.360
word 2 when she says it in return.

1094
00:50:57.420 --> 00:51:00.840
So no one would say, I just want to mate.

1095
00:51:00.900 --> 00:51:01.800
Do you know what I mean?

1096
00:51:01.860 --> 00:51:04.320
So I think that that's a bad line reading.

1097
00:51:04.380 --> 00:51:06.059
But I just think the whole thing's too on the nose.

1098
00:51:06.179 --> 00:51:08.760
I think, actually, the problem is with David Tennant's delivery

1099
00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:12.840
because he delivered it as I just want to mate. then she wouldn't

1100
00:51:12.840 --> 00:51:15.360
have had to have over enunciated it to make a joke.

1101
00:51:15.420 --> 00:51:16.739
Yeah, you should have said, I just want a mate.

1102
00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:21.059
But I think that's also true sometimes when you get too strong and

1103
00:51:21.059 --> 00:51:25.199
well-known actors, like, does the director do enough to actually

1104
00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:25.619
step in?

1105
00:51:25.739 --> 00:51:27.659
Yeah, that's a possibility too.

1106
00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:31.679
And so we've already criticised a few aspects to his direction.

1107
00:51:31.739 --> 00:51:36.059
Sorry, James, because I actually think he does...

1108
00:51:36.119 --> 00:51:37.860
I think you did very well James.

1109
00:51:38.280 --> 00:51:40.019
Oh, listeners.

1110
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:42.780
It's episode one of series four.

1111
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:43.320
Help me now.

1112
00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:50.039
But yes, I think there are some aspects in this episode where I

1113
00:51:50.039 --> 00:51:52.619
think the director gets it wrong and it may be because of the

1114
00:51:52.619 --> 00:51:56.579
actual having to deal with 2 big personalities who are in the lead

1115
00:51:56.579 --> 00:51:59.639
and not being able to say, well, no, we need to do it a different

1116
00:51:59.639 --> 00:51:59.880
way.

1117
00:51:59.940 --> 00:52:02.699
You know, they may have done it several times. don't know.

1118
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:06.840
I also think too, it's a little bit too tell, don't show.

1119
00:52:06.900 --> 00:52:11.099
You know, it's a little bit too much directed at the audience.

1120
00:52:11.159 --> 00:52:13.920
It's not something those 2 would say to one another.

1121
00:52:13.980 --> 00:52:19.139
It's happening because Russell wants to tell the people at home

1122
00:52:19.139 --> 00:52:23.400
that we're not going to have that love affair that really, we

1123
00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:28.019
decided halfway through series 3 was not such a great idea and

1124
00:52:28.019 --> 00:52:29.159
began walking back.

1125
00:52:29.219 --> 00:52:34.019
And so now, you know, so by the way, people at home, you know

1126
00:52:34.019 --> 00:52:34.980
Donna's not...

1127
00:52:34.980 --> 00:52:36.119
No hanky-panky in the tar.

1128
00:52:36.179 --> 00:52:36.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1129
00:52:36.900 --> 00:52:39.360
And what you were saying, Todd, as well, about directors not

1130
00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:41.039
stepping in with big personalities.

1131
00:52:41.099 --> 00:52:45.119
You could also say that maybe Julie or Phil might have flagged

1132
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:47.099
that up to Russell and said, yeah, that doesn't quite work, but

1133
00:52:47.099 --> 00:52:47.699
just let it through.

1134
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:49.559
Yeah, that's a possibility.

1135
00:52:49.800 --> 00:52:52.980
I'm sorry, we're hopping on a bit about James Strong's direction.

1136
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:55.260
I also have a problem with the fact that Donna pulls up her car

1137
00:52:55.260 --> 00:52:57.900
and then the Tartar seems to land like 12nd later and she doesn't

1138
00:52:57.900 --> 00:52:58.199
hear anything.

1139
00:52:58.260 --> 00:53:00.000
Like, so it's engineering. that as well.

1140
00:53:00.059 --> 00:53:02.400
I mean, that's another thing too, though.

1141
00:53:02.460 --> 00:53:04.739
That's another wonderful thing about the doctor and Donna being

1142
00:53:04.739 --> 00:53:05.099
the same.

1143
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:08.400
You know, that they both turn up within seconds of each other in

1144
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:10.500
blue vehicles in a particular alley.

1145
00:53:10.500 --> 00:53:12.780
You know, it's very cute.

1146
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:14.519
And Donna actually notices it too.

1147
00:53:14.579 --> 00:53:17.280
Do you think Rose went over to the bin and fished out the TARDIS

1148
00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:17.760
key?

1149
00:53:18.659 --> 00:53:21.960
I was just going to say, I mean, we have harped on a little bit

1150
00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:26.519
about his direction, but by no means is this poorly directed?

1151
00:53:26.579 --> 00:53:27.599
It is a really great story.

1152
00:53:27.599 --> 00:53:31.019
And I think it really perhaps is summed up in the final moments

1153
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:35.400
when the doctor asked Donna where she wants to go, and you kind of

1154
00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:38.400
you know, people might say, oh, past the future, and then you see

1155
00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:41.159
that she's going to see a grandfather, and it gets to me every

1156
00:53:41.159 --> 00:53:44.159
single time, and I think it sums up the change in character and

1157
00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:47.760
the warmth and the family atmosphere and the payoffs that you want

1158
00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:49.500
to have for the rest of the season.

1159
00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:51.360
Yeah, it's lovely, isn't it?

1160
00:53:51.420 --> 00:53:54.960
And ending on Bernie Cribbon's dancing as well in the in the

1161
00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:55.619
vegetable patch.

1162
00:53:55.739 --> 00:53:59.519
You've got that sort of, is there like a double punch of emotion?

1163
00:53:59.579 --> 00:54:04.320
You get rose come back and then you see them flying over and

1164
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:05.400
waving too many.

1165
00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:06.599
Like, I well up.

1166
00:54:06.659 --> 00:54:08.519
Yeah, that's lovely.

1167
00:54:08.579 --> 00:54:10.860
It's just, it's gorgeous, isn't it?

1168
00:54:10.980 --> 00:54:13.679
It's like that sets up the rest of the season because you've got

1169
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:19.559
this sort of joy. to these characters who are just friends.

1170
00:54:19.619 --> 00:54:20.400
They're just friends.

1171
00:54:20.460 --> 00:54:24.300
The whole episode is just like a joyous, light, screwball comedy.

1172
00:54:24.360 --> 00:54:25.079
How could you not love it?

1173
00:54:46.860 --> 00:54:50.820
Well, dear listener, that's all we've got time for this week.

1174
00:54:50.940 --> 00:54:54.780
We'll be back next week for a Latin lesson, a moral dilemma, and

1175
00:54:54.780 --> 00:54:59.039
some proleptically familiar faces in the fires of Pompeii.

1176
00:54:59.099 --> 00:55:02.940
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1177
00:55:02.940 --> 00:55:05.639
and you can keep up with us at Flight Through Entirety on Facebook

1178
00:55:05.639 --> 00:55:09.599
at FTE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, Flight Through

1179
00:55:09.599 --> 00:55:13.019
Entirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts

1180
00:55:13.019 --> 00:55:15.420
Bondfinger, and Jody into Terror.

1181
00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:20.340
Until next time, remember the true secret of lasting weight loss.

1182
00:55:20.400 --> 00:55:24.000
No exercise, no diet, and no pain.

1183
00:55:24.059 --> 00:55:26.340
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1184
00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:27.059
Good night.

1185
00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:28.079
See you soon.

1186
00:55:28.139 --> 00:55:28.559
Good night.

1187
00:55:31.619 --> 00:55:35.159
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan

1188
00:55:35.159 --> 00:55:38.400
Bottomley, Peter Griffiths and James Selwood, theme arrangement by

1189
00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:41.280
Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane Orberg.

1190
00:55:41.340 --> 00:55:45.300
This episode, for exactly the same reason, was recorded on the 1st

1191
00:55:45.300 --> 00:55:48.599
of February 2020 and released on the 15th of March.

1192
00:55:50.219 --> 00:55:54.659
Fans who think that Sylvia was cruel to Bandwilf from having a

1193
00:55:54.659 --> 00:56:00.059
webcam should on no account visit onlyfans.com slash Skiffleman

1194
00:56:00.059 --> 00:56:02.820
which we will not be linking to in the show notes.

1195
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:08.400
Q music, Q music, that'll be Donna's theme.

1196
00:56:08.460 --> 00:56:09.059
Was that all right?

1197
00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:09.719
Yes.

1198
00:56:09.780 --> 00:56:12.599
I was wondering whether to foley footsteps in.

1199
00:56:12.659 --> 00:56:14.340
The fat just walks away.

1200
00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:14.639
Okay.

1201
00:56:14.699 --> 00:56:17.039
You know, they destroyed a small to medium enterprise in

1202
00:56:17.039 --> 00:56:18.539
yesterday's enterprise.

1203
00:56:18.599 --> 00:56:19.380
I did.

1204
00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:24.840
When are we doing the yesterday's Enterprise podcast?

1205
00:56:24.900 --> 00:56:27.780
Oh, anytime. several times.

1206
00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:32.820
So, let's start with Donna, I think.