WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:05:32 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.840 Hello, Deliter, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety, the 2 00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:44.399 only Doctor Who podcast with three settings, standard comedy 3 00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:48.539 classic and something relaxing for the gentleman after a stressful 4 00:00:48.539 --> 00:00:48.840 day. 5 00:00:48.899 --> 00:00:50.759 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:50.820 --> 00:00:52.079 I'm James. 7 00:00:52.140 --> 00:00:56.520 I'm Todd, and I'm a mouthful of instant pot noodle outpourings of 8 00:00:56.520 --> 00:01:00.840 latex gimp masked suffering and redemption for this one. 9 00:01:00.899 --> 00:01:02.340 Brilliant. 10 00:01:02.460 --> 00:01:06.060 Well, we've rinsed the blood off our togas, and now we're headed 11 00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:09.599 off into the distant future, a world where humanity has 12 00:01:09.599 --> 00:01:13.379 transcended money, imperialism, and the exploitation of the 13 00:01:13.379 --> 00:01:17.459 working classes, which is why we have absolutely nothing to fear 14 00:01:17.459 --> 00:01:19.859 on the planet of the oud. 15 00:01:35.099 --> 00:01:37.620 For Star Trek Picard. 16 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:39.480 Bootsphere. 17 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:42.000 It is the Udsphere. 18 00:01:42.060 --> 00:01:45.480 It's wonderful, isn't it, that Russell has decided that the way 19 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:46.739 that aliens work is? 20 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:50.040 If they're from neighbouring planets, they're vaguely similar to 21 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:50.579 one another. 22 00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:52.859 So, that's a rotten bree. 23 00:01:52.859 --> 00:01:53.400 I guess. 24 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:57.359 So, so, Rexakorofalapatorius and Clom are right next to one 25 00:01:57.359 --> 00:01:57.840 another. 26 00:01:57.900 --> 00:02:01.920 And I have to think that the alien Vord and the Kassavan would 27 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:05.340 have to have been from neighbouring planets if Chris Chibnell had 28 00:02:05.340 --> 00:02:05.760 the same idea. 29 00:02:05.819 --> 00:02:08.879 Or at least neighbouring university, at least neighbouring 30 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:09.360 universes. 31 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:12.419 Since Chibnell has lots of RTDs ideas anyway. 32 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:13.500 I'm sure that we'll see it. 33 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:17.400 Promulgation of this and the non too distant, but that's for Jody 34 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:17.879 isn't it? 35 00:02:17.939 --> 00:02:18.719 It really is. 36 00:02:18.780 --> 00:02:22.139 So how do we feel about this episode? 37 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:25.560 I think Doctor Who is bit too woke now? 38 00:02:25.620 --> 00:02:26.939 Yeah that's it. 39 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:29.819 Why is it suddenly all political and up in your face? 40 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:31.139 Never used to be like this. 41 00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:32.520 Never at all. 42 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:36.419 I was thinking when was there ever a moment when Sarah Jane was 43 00:02:36.419 --> 00:02:39.360 faced with, but I don't think we, we, Well, no, it's more of a Joe 44 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:42.120 Grant moment, actually, to look at slavery, and I don't think 45 00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:46.979 we've seen a companion be quite so in the doctor's face. 46 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:50.280 Again, we all, it's just lovely having Catherine Tate, but hello 47 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:51.240 listener, isn't it really? 48 00:02:51.300 --> 00:02:53.879 I've forgotten how I never hadn't forgotten how good this was, but 49 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:55.979 it's just that it's so fresh each time you watch it. 50 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:59.580 But she's the Barbara of this period for me. 51 00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:00.780 Yeah. 52 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:04.080 I have a moment where I well up. 53 00:03:04.139 --> 00:03:10.560 And that is her 1st interaction with the oud that's been shot 54 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:12.360 that's sort of dying. 55 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:17.939 And it sort of menaces them and does the red eye rabbit thing and 56 00:03:17.939 --> 00:03:22.139 she's frightened and she's initially, she calls it an it, you know 57 00:03:22.139 --> 00:03:23.879 and she's initially apprehensive of it. 58 00:03:23.939 --> 00:03:27.479 And then it dies and she goes down and she strokes its head and 59 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:28.740 she calls it sweetheart. 60 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:32.280 And it's that incredible compassion that we've talked about in the 61 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:33.060 last 2 episodes. 62 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:35.879 As the doctor is telling her to be careful as well. 63 00:03:35.939 --> 00:03:37.319 He's like, be careful. 64 00:03:37.379 --> 00:03:42.360 No, like her compassion overwhelms her sense of self-preservation 65 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:45.479 for something that's just almost attacked her. 66 00:03:45.539 --> 00:03:48.659 Yeah, I think it's just, I think it's just beautiful. 67 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:53.580 I was a bit apprehensive, Todd, because I believed for some reason 68 00:03:53.580 --> 00:03:57.780 that you were very keen to do this episode and I thought that you 69 00:03:57.780 --> 00:03:59.699 probably don't like it very much. 70 00:04:00.900 --> 00:04:04.020 Initially, Nathan, back in the day. 71 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:04.919 Here we go. 72 00:04:04.979 --> 00:04:06.599 I always liked it. 73 00:04:06.659 --> 00:04:07.379 Oh okay. 74 00:04:07.500 --> 00:04:08.340 I've always liked it. 75 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:11.280 But I didn't think it was as good as the 1st 2 episodes of the 76 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:11.639 season. 77 00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:18.420 And on my rewatch, I like it probably slightly more than the 1st 2 78 00:04:18.420 --> 00:04:20.339 episodes of the season, which I'm already giving 9s to. 79 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:22.620 I really was astounded by this. 80 00:04:22.680 --> 00:04:24.660 And it's it's so many things. 81 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:29.879 It's Catherine Tate in particular, but the whole story just sang 82 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:33.120 to me really, and I really just enjoyed it. 83 00:04:33.300 --> 00:04:35.819 Richard used the word fresh. 84 00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:36.720 It was much fresher. 85 00:04:36.779 --> 00:04:40.019 I think I've seen the 1st 2 episodes so many times because I 86 00:04:40.019 --> 00:04:40.920 really adore them. 87 00:04:40.980 --> 00:04:43.199 And so this is one that I haven't rewatched as much. 88 00:04:43.259 --> 00:04:48.959 And so it was like probably the episode that improved the most for 89 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:51.959 me in this entire season that I've been watching. 90 00:04:52.019 --> 00:04:54.180 What do you attribute that to, do you think? 91 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:57.959 Maybe really paying attention to the storyline and what is 92 00:04:57.959 --> 00:04:59.639 actually going on. 93 00:04:59.699 --> 00:05:01.740 Catherine Tate in particular. 94 00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:04.620 And the relationship with David Tennant in this, I think, is 95 00:05:04.620 --> 00:05:05.339 brilliant. 96 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:11.220 And there's so many little moments that, again, with the story 97 00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:14.639 season arcs, you know, from mentioning things like the bees 98 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:18.480 disappearing, to them getting mistaken for the married couple, the 99 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:22.860 Dr. Donna, we get like the sense sphere, there's all that 100 00:05:22.860 --> 00:05:29.040 throughout as well, and addressing what the oud are, essentially 101 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:30.300 slave race. 102 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:35.699 And really feeling compassion for them. with their brains in their 103 00:05:35.699 --> 00:05:36.959 hands and that sort of thing. 104 00:05:37.079 --> 00:05:39.120 I just really adored this. 105 00:05:39.180 --> 00:05:42.839 The fact that Donna, again, going back to her compassion and her 106 00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:50.519 intelligence, Donna is the one that points out to Mr. Halpin, that 107 00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:52.139 of course, they're peaceful. 108 00:05:52.199 --> 00:05:54.600 They're born with a brain in their hands. 109 00:05:54.660 --> 00:05:57.180 They have to be nice to people. 110 00:05:57.240 --> 00:06:00.240 They have to try, you know, they have to trust people. 111 00:06:00.300 --> 00:06:01.680 I didn't see it as a brain. 112 00:06:02.519 --> 00:06:07.500 I think it's a single... think it's a single genus race, I think. 113 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:11.100 And I thought, look, it's a great metaphor for being a boy at 114 00:06:11.100 --> 00:06:13.139 school and a school of full of other boys. 115 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:16.620 I mean, you're clutching your truth and your hope and your hands 116 00:06:16.620 --> 00:06:17.639 constantly, aren't you? 117 00:06:19.379 --> 00:06:21.660 I haven't seen a metaphor. 118 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:22.740 Well it's not even a metaphor. 119 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:23.639 It actually just it is. 120 00:06:23.699 --> 00:06:26.100 It's signify of slavery. 121 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:28.079 I'm thinking the Romans. 122 00:06:28.139 --> 00:06:30.720 I'm trying to think of the antecedents in Doctor Who, where I've 123 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:30.959 had this. 124 00:06:31.019 --> 00:06:35.040 We don't we don't, you know, there are enslaved people in the 125 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:39.720 Romans, but there's no real sort of critique of slavery. 126 00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:46.139 Doctor Who has done exploitation and the doctor coming in and 127 00:06:46.139 --> 00:06:49.860 freeing people from exploitation. 128 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:53.220 Maybe, you know, before the savages, but the savages is the one 129 00:06:53.220 --> 00:06:54.180 that... 130 00:06:54.180 --> 00:06:57.720 Yeah, and all that top of the pop's face paint. 131 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:00.720 And I'm also thinking what the character of Tegan would have done 132 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:04.079 in this situation, and I can really see some nice heartening back 133 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:08.040 to perhaps one of the other favourite periods for Keith, the 134 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:12.240 writer, and whoever else were involved, because I can see there's 135 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:14.100 a lot of 80s themes in this as well. 136 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:17.639 So it's the corporates, isn't it? 137 00:07:17.699 --> 00:07:19.379 that are particularly 80s. 138 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:22.620 And so Doctor Who was very much aware of the change of 139 00:07:22.620 --> 00:07:23.699 neoliberalism. 140 00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:25.740 The Thatcher apparent. 141 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:32.220 See, I always read it as more analogous to one of those mid-pertwe 142 00:07:32.220 --> 00:07:35.040 stories, like, you know, the mutants? 143 00:07:35.100 --> 00:07:40.500 Like the IMC colony and space kind of thing, you know, these big 144 00:07:40.500 --> 00:07:43.680 companies who have taken over space and they have no 145 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:44.699 accountability. 146 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:48.660 Well, it does. throughout the history of Doctor Who, but it really 147 00:07:48.660 --> 00:07:51.779 starts in that kind of woke 70s. 148 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:52.920 Mac Hulk. 149 00:07:52.980 --> 00:07:55.500 Yeah, it's Malcolm Hulk story. 150 00:07:55.560 --> 00:07:56.579 It is Malcolm Hol story. 151 00:07:56.699 --> 00:08:02.879 Well, it is in the sense that it is absolutely not communist, but 152 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:07.800 sort of Marxist in its kind of analysis that these are an 153 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:09.240 exploited class of people. 154 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:10.740 And that it's wrong. 155 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:12.720 Like it definitely comes down on that. 156 00:08:12.779 --> 00:08:15.000 They're as collective for goodness' sake. 157 00:08:15.060 --> 00:08:16.199 Yeah, it couldn't be. 158 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:18.000 And they're in mal gray uniforms. 159 00:08:18.060 --> 00:08:19.379 It couldn't be more obvious. 160 00:08:19.500 --> 00:08:20.339 Yeah, yeah. 161 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:21.600 And the gulag. 162 00:08:21.660 --> 00:08:22.259 Yeah. 163 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:24.000 It's interesting. 164 00:08:24.060 --> 00:08:29.519 I think that this is Russell choosing to go back and repair a 165 00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:31.439 problem with the impossible planet. 166 00:08:31.500 --> 00:08:35.039 And when we talked about the Impossible Planet. was really just 167 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:36.000 implausible, wasn't it? 168 00:08:36.059 --> 00:08:37.620 The implausible planet. 169 00:08:38.700 --> 00:08:45.659 I said at the time that the oud were right to rise up against the 170 00:08:45.659 --> 00:08:47.279 people who are oppressing them. 171 00:08:47.340 --> 00:08:50.580 And when they go around and start killing people at the base, those 172 00:08:50.580 --> 00:08:54.480 people who we really cared about and liked, you know, that it 173 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:57.720 wasn't actually the wrong thing for the to do. 174 00:08:57.779 --> 00:09:05.039 And having the devil be the person who inspires them to rebel to 175 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:09.419 revolution is really telling because the thing about the devil is 176 00:09:09.419 --> 00:09:11.700 he opposes the status quo. 177 00:09:11.940 --> 00:09:16.620 Especially in the modern way that the devil is interpreted in a 178 00:09:16.620 --> 00:09:19.019 lot of popular fiction and television. 179 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:23.940 Now, the devil is written in a lot of, in a lot of modern 180 00:09:23.940 --> 00:09:29.580 television as being chaos, not necessarily evil, burn your soul 181 00:09:29.580 --> 00:09:32.159 kind of character. 182 00:09:32.460 --> 00:09:33.539 Look at Lucifer. 183 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:38.879 Look at to a lesser extent, the chilling adventures of Sabrina. 184 00:09:38.940 --> 00:09:41.279 That is how the devil is written now. 185 00:09:41.460 --> 00:09:43.860 The is greyer way. 186 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:45.960 The career of Olivia Coleman. 187 00:09:46.019 --> 00:09:47.220 She's got a pact. 188 00:09:48.179 --> 00:09:50.159 Do you know what? 189 00:09:50.220 --> 00:09:53.580 Also, I'd like to throw in terms of the traditional meaning and it 190 00:09:53.580 --> 00:09:55.620 goes back a long time of taro card. 191 00:09:55.679 --> 00:09:56.940 I think it's card 15. 192 00:09:57.299 --> 00:10:02.279 The devil is of the choosing of our own choosing to be bound to 193 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:03.659 that which does not serve us. 194 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:11.460 So the binding of self into servitude, which can in fact be turned 195 00:10:11.460 --> 00:10:12.659 over, if we so choose. 196 00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:16.860 I mean, the traditional Christian story of the devil is that he is 197 00:10:16.860 --> 00:10:22.559 an angel who rises up against God, that he is revolutionary and 198 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:23.220 it's pride. 199 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:24.840 You know, he wants to replace God. 200 00:10:24.899 --> 00:10:29.100 But it is the idea that there's an oppressive overlord whom he 201 00:10:29.100 --> 00:10:33.059 wants to overthrow and will probably see stuff about that in 202 00:10:33.059 --> 00:10:36.360 series 3 of his dark materials when we eventually come to that. 203 00:10:36.419 --> 00:10:42.059 But having the devil inspire them is less interesting, I think 204 00:10:42.059 --> 00:10:43.139 than what happens this time. 205 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:49.919 Look, I, in hindsight, especially in, in looking at their 206 00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:57.240 introductory story, through the lens of this one, having the devil 207 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:01.259 be controlling them is actually a disservice to those characters. 208 00:11:01.379 --> 00:11:06.179 Yeah, I would have liked to have seen the story where they were 209 00:11:06.179 --> 00:11:08.220 just rising up because they were oppressed. 210 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:08.639 Yeah. 211 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:10.919 That, to me, is more interesting. 212 00:11:10.980 --> 00:11:16.740 It's why I find this story more interesting and more like it has 213 00:11:16.740 --> 00:11:17.220 something to say. 214 00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:21.000 I think that impossible planet isn't interested in the politics. 215 00:11:21.179 --> 00:11:26.460 And it inadvertently makes that political point, you know, and 216 00:11:26.460 --> 00:11:27.899 it's a problem. 217 00:11:27.960 --> 00:11:30.840 Don't you feel at the end of the impossible planet that the doctor 218 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:33.480 has kind of... 219 00:11:33.539 --> 00:11:34.799 Yeah, yeah. 220 00:11:34.860 --> 00:11:39.000 And he makes that decision to save Billy instead of to save sort 221 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:39.899 of 24 ude. 222 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:41.700 Should have saved the 24-ud. 223 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:47.460 It's not a decision we would have necessarily enjoyed, I think. the 224 00:11:47.460 --> 00:11:48.120 trolly problem. 225 00:11:48.179 --> 00:11:49.080 Yeah, yeah. 226 00:11:49.139 --> 00:11:52.980 Do you save one buck tooth girl from Essex? 227 00:11:53.340 --> 00:11:55.740 Would you save 24 slaves? 228 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:57.059 Which would you rather kiss? 229 00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:00.899 There is that gorgeous shot of the Ud going down on a fallen 230 00:12:00.899 --> 00:12:01.799 soldier, gentlemen. 231 00:12:01.860 --> 00:12:06.240 And I'm thinking, oh, this is this is getting very, very um, galaxy 232 00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:06.539 quest. 233 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:10.500 It's bit Cthulhu, isn't it? 234 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:13.440 It's very Catholic without the wings, which I also do like, yes. 235 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:14.519 There's lots of nods. 236 00:12:14.580 --> 00:12:16.139 Russell always has a nod. 237 00:12:25.259 --> 00:12:27.120 Getting back to Impossible Planet. 238 00:12:27.179 --> 00:12:30.360 Ida Scott was supposed to be returning this story as well. 239 00:12:30.419 --> 00:12:36.720 Initially, she was going to play a major role in the show. 240 00:12:36.779 --> 00:12:37.620 She was going to come back. 241 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:41.519 She's going to be investigating the abuses against the Oud by the 242 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:42.179 corporation. 243 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:42.840 Right. 244 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:46.980 And that disappeared in the writing process. 245 00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:52.019 Yeah, I mean, Dr. Rider, I guess, is sort of playing that role. 246 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:53.879 Who does he work for? 247 00:12:53.940 --> 00:12:56.399 So is he with Friends of the Oude? 248 00:12:56.460 --> 00:12:57.299 I love that. 249 00:12:57.299 --> 00:13:02.340 It's a classic 70s per tweet name for a political group, isn't 250 00:13:02.340 --> 00:13:02.519 it? 251 00:13:02.580 --> 00:13:05.639 Oh, well, I actually thought it was a very Bob Holmes sort of 252 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:06.000 thing. 253 00:13:06.059 --> 00:13:08.279 Yes, the friends of Delta Magna. 254 00:13:08.340 --> 00:13:08.820 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 255 00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:13.019 But there's friends of the earth, I think, in frontier in space, I 256 00:13:13.019 --> 00:13:13.320 think. 257 00:13:13.379 --> 00:13:14.759 Oh is it? 258 00:13:14.820 --> 00:13:15.840 I can't remember. 259 00:13:15.899 --> 00:13:18.240 But it is a very sort of classic Doctor Who thing. 260 00:13:18.419 --> 00:13:21.899 What is Keith Temple, is it, who wrote this episode? 261 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:22.799 What has he written? 262 00:13:22.860 --> 00:13:24.240 Does anybody know? 263 00:13:24.299 --> 00:13:26.820 He's never written any other episodes, has he? 264 00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:29.519 He hasn't really done much since. 265 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:34.740 He wrote an episode of River City the next year, but he worked on 266 00:13:34.740 --> 00:13:41.279 Doc Martin on a terrible late 90s, early 2000s kids show called 267 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:43.799 Biker Grove, which was set in Newcastle. 268 00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:46.019 It was on that terrible. 269 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:51.240 Well, it gave us Anton Deck, so, well, you'd be the judge. 270 00:13:51.299 --> 00:13:53.460 He worked a lot on EastEnders. 271 00:13:53.580 --> 00:13:55.259 Crossroads? 272 00:13:55.379 --> 00:13:58.080 I always find it interesting that, you know, sometimes we have 273 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:00.539 these one-off writers and I always think, well, how did they get 274 00:14:00.539 --> 00:14:02.700 the gig and what have they done and that sort of thing? 275 00:14:02.759 --> 00:14:05.159 And it's interesting that he's actually got this very political 276 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:08.220 episode to address the things that you've been discussing? 277 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:12.120 It must have been kind of something that Russell gave him to do 278 00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:15.659 though, because I think that Russell must have been conscious that 279 00:14:15.659 --> 00:14:18.779 there was a problem with the slave race. 280 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:25.259 And it's a weird thing too, because Rose actually comments on, you 281 00:14:25.259 --> 00:14:27.000 know, humans don't need slaves. 282 00:14:27.059 --> 00:14:28.379 Why do we have slaves? 283 00:14:28.500 --> 00:14:30.240 And she's not happy about it. 284 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:33.179 But then the other shoe never drops. 285 00:14:33.539 --> 00:14:35.100 Fair enough. 286 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:37.320 I think you're right. 287 00:14:37.379 --> 00:14:41.340 I mean, it is something that Russell loved giving people shopping 288 00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:42.000 lists. 289 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:45.059 And the JNT of the show. 290 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:51.480 With this, he said, you know, like Ice Planet, who'd let's deal 291 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:52.139 with the slavery. 292 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:52.799 Right. 293 00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:53.159 Okay. 294 00:14:53.220 --> 00:14:56.940 And again, I think, you know, getting back to what we were saying 295 00:14:56.940 --> 00:14:59.580 about before about it being a Mac Hulk script. 296 00:14:59.700 --> 00:15:03.179 I think it was on the commentary for the episode, Keith Temple 297 00:15:03.179 --> 00:15:08.519 talked about how his initial drafts, he was unconsciously writing 298 00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:11.820 it as a 6 part classic series story. 299 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:13.080 It flows like that. 300 00:15:13.139 --> 00:15:15.179 But for a 45 minute slot. 301 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.059 Do you know what he wrote just before this and what reason he got 302 00:15:18.059 --> 00:15:18.360 the job? 303 00:15:18.419 --> 00:15:19.740 He did that thing. 304 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:22.980 I want to call it layer cake, but he did that thing called, oh god 305 00:15:22.980 --> 00:15:23.519 what's it called? 306 00:15:23.820 --> 00:15:25.620 Angel Cake. 307 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:28.799 And it's got Rita Tushingham, who was in, was she in Taste of 308 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:29.100 Honey? 309 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:31.019 She's in a lot of those great 60s things. 310 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:33.360 She was one of the great Northern Lasses of the 60s, and another 311 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:36.659 lass called Sarah Lancashire, whom we know, some other shows such 312 00:15:36.659 --> 00:15:37.379 as Doctor Who. 313 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:40.620 But the thing was, the conceit was the Virgin Mary appears in the 314 00:15:40.620 --> 00:15:41.519 icing of a cake. 315 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:45.000 And he said, it's all these visions of weeping statues that I 316 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:46.259 wanted to put into Doctor Who. 317 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:48.000 So yes, we're looking at you, Moffat. 318 00:15:48.059 --> 00:15:52.620 But he said that in 2006, and I'm thinking, oh, that's right 319 00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:53.940 actually on the money, isn't it? 320 00:15:54.059 --> 00:15:58.139 Now, he writes with great irony and sensitivity in a lot of 321 00:15:58.139 --> 00:15:58.379 things. 322 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:01.440 And he's got a book that came out in 2010 called It's Behind You 323 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:04.200 which I think we all need to go and have a look at. 324 00:16:04.259 --> 00:16:05.279 No, I like his writing. 325 00:16:05.340 --> 00:16:06.299 I like the cleanness of it. 326 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:09.000 I like that he gives the right people deaths in the right way. 327 00:16:09.059 --> 00:16:10.740 I enjoyed the depths in this one. 328 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:12.419 It's funny, isn't it? 329 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:13.440 Because I did too. 330 00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:16.200 And I thought I thought of you, Todd, actually. 331 00:16:16.259 --> 00:16:18.419 Oh, oh, get out. 332 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.779 You enjoyed the deaths in this story, Todd? 333 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:28.019 I did not enjoy the death of Dr. Ryder, who I thought was there to 334 00:16:28.019 --> 00:16:32.100 help, and then he just gets pushed into the brain and, well, I 335 00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:32.460 don't know. 336 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:35.100 Drowned, eaten, whatever it happened. 337 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:37.320 Like I kind of thought, well, that's a shame. 338 00:16:37.379 --> 00:16:41.879 I mean, I did enjoy the death of Salana. 339 00:16:41.940 --> 00:16:42.779 Yeah. 340 00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:45.600 And it's a, she's a very interesting character, and it's one of 341 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:47.940 the reasons why I really like this story is because I actually 342 00:16:47.940 --> 00:16:51.600 think she's really good, and she sells all of that PR stuff, like 343 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:54.659 it's the, you know, that she does with all of the clients, even 344 00:16:54.659 --> 00:16:55.740 when things are going to hell. 345 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:58.919 Oh, yes, that's just, you know, our fire drill or whatever she 346 00:16:58.919 --> 00:16:59.159 says. 347 00:16:59.220 --> 00:17:02.519 And you honestly think that she's going to go with the doctor and 348 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:06.000 be on the side of it. good. we're like, we're used to, and then 349 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:07.319 she makes a choice in a decision. 350 00:17:07.380 --> 00:17:09.720 And that has ramifications for her. 351 00:17:09.779 --> 00:17:12.059 It's such a great scene too, isn't it? 352 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:16.859 Because she critiques us in a way. 353 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:22.380 It's that wonderful thing where one of them, either Donna or the 354 00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:28.500 doctor, I suspect it's Donna says, do people here know how you're 355 00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:29.220 treating the oo? 356 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:33.720 Well, yeah, she says, you've got to tell the people back home 357 00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:34.619 basically. 358 00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:38.339 Like, if they knew what was going on, they'd do something to stop 359 00:17:38.339 --> 00:17:38.640 it. 360 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:44.279 And she says, they know, they don't ask, they know, they don't ask 361 00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:45.599 and that's the same thing. 362 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:48.900 They don't care to know. how the ouda treat. 363 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:50.880 And then there's that point that Donna makes, you know, human 364 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:52.559 beings don't need slaves. 365 00:17:52.619 --> 00:17:56.099 We don't have slaves and the doctor says, who made your clothes? 366 00:17:56.220 --> 00:18:00.839 Yeah, and again, I think that's really interesting and sort of 367 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:05.640 more interesting than it appears because it's the point where the 368 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:11.519 script is explicitly kind of linking itself to our economic 369 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:12.000 situation. 370 00:18:12.059 --> 00:18:17.160 So this is a sort of fantasy world with sort of alien squidhead 371 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:23.579 slaves, but it's by linking it to the fact that we live in a world 372 00:18:23.579 --> 00:18:30.900 where all of the things that we buy are produced by people who are 373 00:18:30.900 --> 00:18:31.980 being exploited. 374 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:36.839 And the example is clothes, maybe the go-to thing now is our 375 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:43.440 consumer electronics or like Amazon, you know, perhaps Doctor Who 376 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:48.480 might take a stab at critiquing the employment practises of 377 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:50.039 Amazon. 378 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:53.039 And then Donna rejects it. 379 00:18:53.099 --> 00:18:58.319 You know, Donna is the one who goes up and questions that oud and 380 00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:01.259 asks it if it's okay with being enslaved. 381 00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:04.380 She doesn't like the slavery thing. 382 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:09.720 But when the doctor says to her, who made your clothes, she pushes 383 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:12.059 back and rejects it? 384 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:14.460 And the doctor kind of goes, oh, all right, fair enough. he 385 00:19:14.460 --> 00:19:15.599 doesn't sort of push the point. 386 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:19.319 It's hard to know what that is because that doesn't reflect well 387 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:23.759 on Donna, who we like as a person. 388 00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:24.599 Are you sure? 389 00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:26.700 I think she's saying she's part of a capitalist net. 390 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:28.440 She was unemployed when she met the doctor. 391 00:19:28.500 --> 00:19:32.099 So she's really no different from those persons working overseas. 392 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:35.099 It's just that she happens historically to have been in a place 393 00:19:35.099 --> 00:19:37.140 that had a more effective empire more recently. 394 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:40.980 But don't you think that that's an excuse that we make? 395 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:42.299 Do you know what I mean? 396 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:47.400 It's that thing where we sort of say, um, we're not complicit in 397 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:51.480 this because we're oppressed by capitalism as well. 398 00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:56.759 And that's certainly true, but we're not emiserated by capitalism 399 00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:00.240 to the extent that other people are. 400 00:20:00.299 --> 00:20:05.160 And so we're able to say, well, I don't have slaves, which is 401 00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:06.480 precisely what she says. 402 00:20:06.539 --> 00:20:08.160 So I'm okay. 403 00:20:08.220 --> 00:20:09.839 And she pushes back at the doctor. 404 00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:11.039 I think it's interesting. 405 00:20:11.099 --> 00:20:11.880 Do you know what I mean? 406 00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:14.099 Like, I don't think there's anything definite to say about it, but 407 00:20:14.099 --> 00:20:15.539 I do think it's a really interesting moment. 408 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.420 But I think a lot of the audience might be thinking that as well. 409 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:22.559 And I think it gets people thinking about what actually is 410 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:24.059 happening in the world around them. 411 00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:26.579 And I think once Donna would never even thought about that. 412 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:28.980 And the fact that she pushes back means that she does have a point 413 00:20:28.980 --> 00:20:31.500 of view and that maybe she's going to reflect on this and 414 00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:34.799 certainly how she reacts throughout the rest of the episode from 415 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:38.940 what she sees and when they start singing and she wants it to stop 416 00:20:38.940 --> 00:20:42.059 and the tears, I think it's, I think it's great for us to see. 417 00:20:42.059 --> 00:20:44.700 And for those people who perhaps said, oh, yes, she's right. 418 00:20:44.819 --> 00:20:45.720 Yeah. 419 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:48.420 I think, I think that's it, isn't it? 420 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:52.019 She's not quite ready to learn that she's part of a system that 421 00:20:52.019 --> 00:20:56.519 emiserates other people just as much as the people in the 42nd 422 00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:57.359 century are. 423 00:20:57.420 --> 00:21:04.079 And that kind of anticipates that scene where she hears that song 424 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:10.200 the song of the oud, and she's weeping, but she says, please take 425 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:10.859 it away. 426 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:11.819 I can't handle it. 427 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:12.779 Can't bear it. 428 00:21:12.779 --> 00:21:14.039 You know, I can't bear it. 429 00:21:14.099 --> 00:21:17.279 And that doesn't read as cowardice, I don't think. 430 00:21:17.339 --> 00:21:22.019 You know, I think that just reads as really kind of boundless 431 00:21:22.019 --> 00:21:22.799 compassion. 432 00:21:22.859 --> 00:21:28.200 But there's a level at which the horror that the oud experience is 433 00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:32.640 so great that it's too much for us to think about. 434 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:34.500 And maybe that's our problem. 435 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:38.759 We can't every time we buy something. 436 00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:41.940 We can't think about what's happening. 437 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:42.839 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 438 00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:44.099 And like maybe we should. 439 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:46.380 Maybe we're cowards, maybe we're complicit. 440 00:21:46.859 --> 00:21:49.799 But we can't, you know, we just can't. 441 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:51.119 But that makes her more human. 442 00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:54.900 Like, the fact that she reacts in that way actually makes her more 443 00:21:54.900 --> 00:22:00.119 accessible to the audience. because that is the reaction that most 444 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:01.019 of us have. 445 00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:05.220 On a daily basis, we just shut ourselves off on that because to 446 00:22:05.220 --> 00:22:09.900 admit it on an ongoing basis is just too much. 447 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:12.960 And that is one of the reasons why coming back to this rewatch 448 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:17.039 discovering this and really thinking about it, whereas the 1st 449 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:19.140 time I was probably quite dismissive and just didn't want to take 450 00:22:19.140 --> 00:22:19.440 that in. 451 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:22.859 Yeah, it's, it's, it is amazingly good. 452 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:26.880 And it is very, very straightforwardly just a story of a 453 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:28.619 revolution that happens one day. 454 00:22:28.859 --> 00:22:31.920 I really like the linear plotting in this. 455 00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:33.299 It's very organic. 456 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:35.579 And that's why it feels so 70s. 457 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:36.779 Well, it does. 458 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:39.539 Except it would have been stretched out to 4 episodes. 459 00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:41.519 I'd be quite happy with the old format for this season. 460 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:47.400 Probably get a big chase with the claw in the thing too, don't 461 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:47.579 we? 462 00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:48.539 We get the fun pier. 463 00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:54.000 The doctor today is playing the role of a sort of fluffy Pokemon 464 00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:57.059 or something. plays his own character options mini figure, doesn't 465 00:22:57.059 --> 00:22:57.240 it? 466 00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:00.660 Doesn't that guy just say I've always wanted to do this or 467 00:23:00.660 --> 00:23:01.319 something like that? 468 00:23:01.380 --> 00:23:04.019 Actually, he's the weakest link in this story. 469 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:08.279 I don't think his performance is that good I think he's fabulously 470 00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:09.240 unlikeable too. 471 00:23:09.299 --> 00:23:11.700 And the eyes are doing it the whole way. 472 00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:13.619 And that's got great face. 473 00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:14.640 Yeah, yeah. 474 00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:19.500 And then the comeuppance he gets where he is planning to gas all 475 00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:21.539 ewed, and then they gas him. 476 00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:24.480 He gets what's coming to him. did like that. 477 00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:28.619 Do you know, that reminds me of, there is one other place in the 478 00:23:28.619 --> 00:23:32.880 script where it's linked to the present day, and that is that he 479 00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:37.920 refers to the Ud as livestock, and they have to gas the infected 480 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:42.539 livestock, and then it's compared to, it's the foot and mouth 481 00:23:42.539 --> 00:23:45.059 solution, and that's said in the dialogue as well. 482 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:51.720 And so suddenly, as well, the oud become our food animals, and 483 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:56.279 it's not pushed, but the fact is that we live in a world where I 484 00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:00.420 think I've heard something like 560000000 animals a year are 485 00:24:00.420 --> 00:24:04.619 killed for us to eat, and those animals are kept in appalling 486 00:24:04.619 --> 00:24:07.140 conditions, and they don't want to be killed. 487 00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:10.559 They fight back against us when we try and catch and kill them 488 00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:16.079 that there's an absolute kind of moral horror, that underpins our 489 00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:16.799 everyday life. 490 00:24:16.859 --> 00:24:18.059 And I'm not vegetarian. 491 00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:20.220 I'm not planning to become vegetarian. 492 00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:28.380 But, but the misery that we inflict on the world just as, just to 493 00:24:28.380 --> 00:24:32.160 stay alive and, and it's hinted at in that bit of dialogue. 494 00:24:32.220 --> 00:24:34.680 I ate plant-based fake chicken this week. 495 00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:36.299 And it was fine. 496 00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:39.839 I just thought I'd throw that on and take the icy moral behind. 497 00:24:39.900 --> 00:24:45.180 I think it's a healthy vegetarian diet for all of us from now on. 498 00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:46.019 Thanks, Colin. 499 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:50.160 And because I ate it, I had to tell everyone. 500 00:24:50.339 --> 00:24:51.960 That's it. 501 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:55.920 I want to know how they, who makes the pyjamas and what do they 502 00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:56.160 eat? 503 00:24:56.220 --> 00:24:58.200 It looks very cold and I haven't seen their shoes. 504 00:24:58.259 --> 00:25:00.839 I have a lot of questions about this episode, Russell. 505 00:25:01.019 --> 00:25:02.940 I don't understand. 506 00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:05.519 But I like their icy bridges. 507 00:25:05.579 --> 00:25:08.519 I'm pretty sure that other oud make the oud clothes. 508 00:25:08.579 --> 00:25:10.079 I think that's almost it. 509 00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:10.680 But how? 510 00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:13.140 Because you're always holding your brains in your hand. 511 00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:15.240 Oh no, because they've been lobotomised. 512 00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:16.920 No, no, no, but natural lube. 513 00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:18.059 No, okay, yeah, yeah. 514 00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:18.660 What do they do? 515 00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:21.960 I think they get lobotomised and then have to make their own 516 00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:22.259 clothes. 517 00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:26.339 What's a natural udo when they're doing a washing up or hanging 518 00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:28.019 out, you know, hanging out the washing? 519 00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:30.299 That really funny thing. 520 00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:33.960 Oh, I've met people. they pop it back into their mouths. 521 00:25:34.019 --> 00:25:38.160 It's that really weird thing where the doctor says there can't be 522 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:43.259 a slave race because nothing could evolve to be a slave race, but 523 00:25:43.259 --> 00:25:46.500 I'm fairly certain nothing could evolve to have half of its brain 524 00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:50.160 in its hands. you know, like that seems like uh, I think that 525 00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:51.599 wouldn't happen. pop it back in. 526 00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:53.640 Maybe they do Like we do when it's cold. 527 00:25:53.700 --> 00:25:56.400 Maybe it's just that it's because it's so cold there. we've just 528 00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:00.720 answered our own question I think actually that whole thing came 529 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:04.079 from a conversation that David had with Russell. 530 00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:07.380 Oh, David Tennant. 531 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:11.579 Like, he actually was like... 532 00:26:12.059 --> 00:26:13.859 In between things. 533 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:17.099 Oh, I just had an HR Geiger vision of her just projecting them 534 00:26:17.099 --> 00:26:20.339 across the set and the one that annoyed her and stealing an Ud 535 00:26:20.339 --> 00:26:21.420 brain. 536 00:26:21.539 --> 00:26:27.059 But he had conversations with him. 537 00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:30.119 I'm sure I read this somewhere that he'd had conversations with 538 00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:36.539 Russell about, well, how couldn't a slave race evolve naturally? 539 00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:37.740 Yeah, yeah, okay. 540 00:26:37.740 --> 00:26:38.460 Such fans. 541 00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:40.200 Well, he was. 542 00:26:40.259 --> 00:26:41.160 He was. 543 00:26:41.220 --> 00:26:41.819 He certainly was. 544 00:26:49.259 --> 00:26:51.960 So Mr. Kess gets a good death. 545 00:26:52.019 --> 00:26:56.880 The ud buyers also get some good deaths. 546 00:26:56.940 --> 00:27:02.279 I think we spoke a couple of weeks ago about having, you know 547 00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:05.640 these attractive sort of extra people that come in just to do like 548 00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:09.420 one scene and they're like in the office or whatever, but here 549 00:27:09.420 --> 00:27:10.019 they're talking about. 550 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.759 I actually just love that whole scene of how horrifying and also 551 00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:17.880 ridiculous at the same time, the whole, you know, you can get your 552 00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:19.440 ood with this, that, and the other. 553 00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:20.700 And then, oh, it changes colour. 554 00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:23.759 It's more filled you. 555 00:27:23.819 --> 00:27:29.160 So there's a humiliation of the ude involved there because not 556 00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:34.380 only are they just turned into commodities and sold as slaves, but 557 00:27:34.380 --> 00:27:35.940 they're also humiliated along the way. 558 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:37.920 Yeah, they're mocked and derided. 559 00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:41.880 So the option where it can do Homer Simpson or the option where it 560 00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:46.799 can sort of seduce you after a day's work or whatever. you. 561 00:27:46.859 --> 00:27:51.059 It's like horrifying and hilarious at the same time as long as 562 00:27:51.059 --> 00:27:51.779 it's not happened to you. 563 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:55.740 And that scene where she's introducing the Ude and talking about 564 00:27:55.740 --> 00:27:58.140 the great conditions that they're kept in. 565 00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:03.180 So Solana is doing the sales pitch at the same time as Commander 566 00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:08.400 Kess is chasing a runaway oud and then planning to kill them all. 567 00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:12.240 Well, but but it's a scene where people are running with machine 568 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:15.900 guns after an oud that's running away and that oud ends up 569 00:28:15.900 --> 00:28:21.240 cowering, terrified in a corner, you know, surrounded by those 570 00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:25.680 drums while she's talking about how they're educated and looked 571 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:27.900 after and all of that kind of thing. 572 00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:32.700 It's really kind of sort of super obvious and maybe a bit, maybe a 573 00:28:32.700 --> 00:28:33.779 bit on the nose, but... 574 00:28:33.779 --> 00:28:34.920 I love that juxtaposition. 575 00:28:34.980 --> 00:28:36.539 Yeah, it is, it is great. 576 00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:40.440 It's worth mentioning that we have Graham Harper back this week. 577 00:28:40.500 --> 00:28:41.700 It is worth mentioning. 578 00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:46.079 Yes, he loves doing all of his, you know, big shotgun sequences 579 00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:48.660 and then there's fire going in the background and explosions. 580 00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:52.319 Yeah, it does have this style that seems to come up time and 581 00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:52.799 time. 582 00:28:52.859 --> 00:28:58.920 He has been remaking, uh, Anjazani and Revelation of the Diet ever 583 00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:00.059 since, really, hasn't he? 584 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:02.819 But this is the one where men with guns. 585 00:29:02.940 --> 00:29:04.740 You know, this is a big man with guns. 586 00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:08.339 It's the Ducky Campfield of the 21st century. until recently. 587 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:12.599 I mean, Doctor Who doesn't do men with guns very much and having 588 00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:13.619 people shot dead. 589 00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:19.799 New who doesn't have scenes very often where someone gets out a 590 00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:21.059 gun and shoots someone else. 591 00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:24.960 And having them, like, it's clearly a deliberate choice to have 592 00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:28.680 them as machine guns because that makes them seem more violent. 593 00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:32.700 But all of the scenes where the oud are shot, the oud are not in 594 00:29:32.700 --> 00:29:34.079 shot when they're shot. 595 00:29:34.140 --> 00:29:37.559 Like, yeah, you shoot off camera at Ud who are sort of over 596 00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:38.339 somewhere else. 597 00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:40.319 But there is a huge amount of that here. 598 00:29:40.380 --> 00:29:45.720 But that, I mean, that's partly because you don't need to say it. 599 00:29:45.779 --> 00:29:46.380 You know they're dead. 600 00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:50.460 But also there's the edict from Russell at the time that you 601 00:29:50.460 --> 00:29:52.019 should not see blood on Doctor Who. 602 00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:56.940 Yeah, which kind of has disappeared over time, because he very 603 00:29:56.940 --> 00:29:59.940 firmly placed it as a family tea time show. 604 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:00.539 Yeah. 605 00:30:00.539 --> 00:30:01.079 Yeah. 606 00:30:01.140 --> 00:30:03.539 But I think I think that they take it as far as they can. 607 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:05.700 This is the most gun episode. 608 00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:07.319 Well, getting to that. 609 00:30:07.380 --> 00:30:12.539 The scene at the end of the episode where Mr. Halpen becomes an 610 00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:16.440 ood. had to be reshot because it was too horrific. 611 00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:18.180 Too horrific. 612 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:20.700 It was pretty horrific. horrific enough now. 613 00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:24.480 Initially, it was filmed front on. 614 00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:25.079 Right. 615 00:30:25.140 --> 00:30:31.079 Um, with like his face falling away, I believe, and and, and it 616 00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:32.880 was, it was kind of a bit like Kane. 617 00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:35.339 I was going to say, everyone forgotten Ice World. 618 00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:36.480 That far away. 619 00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:37.920 Maybe that planet's next door. 620 00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:41.519 But they redid it. 621 00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:47.099 And it's not Tim McKenery in that final version of the shot. 622 00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:50.160 It's his face mattered on to Paul Cosey. 623 00:30:50.220 --> 00:30:51.660 Almost certainly. 624 00:30:51.900 --> 00:30:56.039 I mean, Paul Casey was playing... 625 00:30:56.099 --> 00:30:56.279 Yes. 626 00:30:56.339 --> 00:31:02.880 But they basically had to, they redid it from the side. because 627 00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:07.259 that was more acceptable than the original shop. 628 00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:10.799 It's still super gross because he's coughing up tentacles. 629 00:31:10.859 --> 00:31:14.400 But imagine, that you find that difficult to watch. 630 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:17.220 Imagine how difficult it was to watch, but they had to change it 631 00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:18.599 in postproduction. 632 00:31:18.660 --> 00:31:20.160 Everything off his scalp. 633 00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:21.299 Yeah, yeah. 634 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:25.079 It's very clever, you know, throughout as he's drinking his hair 635 00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:25.740 tonic. 636 00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:28.140 It's just terrific to think about. 637 00:31:28.259 --> 00:31:32.759 And as you realise, as you realise at the same time, he does as 638 00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:33.000 well. 639 00:31:33.059 --> 00:31:36.779 Yeah, I'm not, I'm not, I want to see a nude pash. 640 00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:38.579 Just two. 641 00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:44.099 I'm not super sold by that scene because he can't speak properly 642 00:31:44.099 --> 00:31:47.039 and his face is going all red and it's all just a little bit too 643 00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:48.240 cartoonish at that point. 644 00:31:48.299 --> 00:31:49.500 Too sudden as well. 645 00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:53.460 He should have been coughing up blood and being quite ill 646 00:31:53.460 --> 00:31:54.359 throughout the episode. 647 00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:58.740 Well, his hair is falling out and that kind of does it because, you 648 00:31:58.740 --> 00:32:02.579 know, like the whole thing about him going bald is the way of 649 00:32:02.579 --> 00:32:03.960 saying that he's turning into it. 650 00:32:04.019 --> 00:32:07.740 Yeah, and then you get the, they lampshade that by having the line 651 00:32:07.740 --> 00:32:14.700 from the doctor where he says, you know, the, the, his vicinity to 652 00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:18.960 the brain has accelerated the process.. 653 00:32:19.019 --> 00:32:21.900 And certainly with the levels being turned down as well. 654 00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:22.920 Yeah. 655 00:32:26.460 --> 00:32:29.160 What do we think the circle thing does? 656 00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:34.799 I feel the circle thing is going back to my old Mark's notes from 657 00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:37.440 university that we're actually still nodding. 658 00:32:37.500 --> 00:32:40.559 Oh, and it's also the, you know, you know, the collective. 659 00:32:40.619 --> 00:32:47.700 But it's also nodding to a lot of um, popular, which is now 660 00:32:47.700 --> 00:32:52.200 popular, of Vedic and Buddhist and Eastern type wise men religious 661 00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:53.460 thing of the circle of life. 662 00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:56.579 Oh, beat back on the Lion King. 663 00:32:56.640 --> 00:33:01.140 The loco. and the spiders. 664 00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:02.519 Yeah, that as well. 665 00:33:02.579 --> 00:33:04.440 I mean, you know, it's like Barry Letts is in the room. 666 00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:08.099 So there's 2 things, I think, that sort of happened. 667 00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:10.619 Like it prevents collective action, doesn't it? 668 00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:13.380 Like, which is what you were saying, like, it prevents the Ud from 669 00:33:13.380 --> 00:33:17.099 regarding themselves as a collective and from taking action in 670 00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:20.039 order to overthrow their oppressors. 671 00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:25.380 I think it's telling that once the Ud kind of do the collective 672 00:33:25.380 --> 00:33:30.420 action, then what they do is broadcast that song to everyone. 673 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:33.000 So like the song that Donna had heard. 674 00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:38.339 Is the song of sorrow and exclusion and impression separation. 675 00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:40.740 It's a song of separation and then we get, oh my goodness, we're 676 00:33:40.740 --> 00:33:41.519 back to William Blake. 677 00:33:41.579 --> 00:33:45.480 We have the songs of, we songs of innocence and experience, but 678 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:47.940 this is, this is the final book. 679 00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:52.200 So it's the song of, it's not triumph. 680 00:33:52.259 --> 00:33:53.700 It's collective acknowledgement. 681 00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:56.400 So what do they hear? 682 00:33:56.460 --> 00:33:59.339 Like, a Welsh football choir? 683 00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:02.940 I mean, why do they stop oppressing the oud then, all of a 684 00:34:02.940 --> 00:34:03.119 sudden? 685 00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:04.140 Yes, why is that? 686 00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:05.640 Do we all just get woke? 687 00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:08.880 Well, it's a bit to work, isn't it? 688 00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:12.119 The name of that song on the soundtrack is song of freedom. 689 00:34:12.179 --> 00:34:15.659 And it's, yeah, I mean, that's obviously how we're supposed to 690 00:34:15.659 --> 00:34:16.079 read it. 691 00:34:16.380 --> 00:34:20.880 But I guess, you know, like, well, how do we go back to oppressing 692 00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:22.679 the area, like the company's fallen. 693 00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:24.659 No, it's exactly what you said. 694 00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:27.780 It's the song of where we're all meant to get We're even including 695 00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:31.500 globalisation and climate challenge in this episode because 696 00:34:31.500 --> 00:34:34.079 there's a song of when everybody wakes up and stops exploiting the 697 00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:34.980 environment and each other. 698 00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:41.159 So, so the Ud Sigma earlier on when he's asked about freedom, or 699 00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:43.920 is it, is it Ud Sigma, who gets asked about freedom and he says he 700 00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:45.300 doesn't understand the concept? 701 00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:47.460 And then suddenly, he's lying. 702 00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:53.699 But suddenly every human on earth hears the oudes elation at being 703 00:34:53.699 --> 00:34:56.880 free and they can no longer continue oppressing them. 704 00:34:57.179 --> 00:34:58.679 I guess. 705 00:34:58.739 --> 00:35:01.440 I mean, it's sort of a fantasy thing because we're quite happy to 706 00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:04.079 continue oppressing people kind of all the time and we know that 707 00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:06.000 they have the same interiority as we do. 708 00:35:06.059 --> 00:35:08.159 I mean, it costs you come back to the later anyway. 709 00:35:08.219 --> 00:35:10.260 Like, so you see that they are still free. 710 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:12.360 They haven't been reappressed. 711 00:35:12.420 --> 00:35:12.780 Yeah. 712 00:35:12.780 --> 00:35:17.460 In fact, the Oudes huge role in the end of time. 713 00:35:18.179 --> 00:35:21.119 So they come back and they're big. 714 00:35:21.179 --> 00:35:23.760 And for a while, like Russell kind of wants them to replace the 715 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:28.440 time lords in a way in that they have some awareness of something 716 00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:32.039 breaking through or some bad thing happening, like, you know, that 717 00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:33.840 there's... 718 00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:36.000 Guardians or something. 719 00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:37.800 I think your song must end soon. 720 00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:38.519 Yes. 721 00:35:38.579 --> 00:35:42.420 So they foreshadow, no, this Dr. Donna, you'll never be forgotten 722 00:35:42.420 --> 00:35:44.039 or something so much like that. 723 00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:46.440 Your song must end soon. 724 00:35:46.500 --> 00:35:49.260 But they are time sensitive in some way. 725 00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:50.219 They can see. 726 00:35:50.219 --> 00:35:53.400 Yeah, they can sense that something is coming. that's the end of 727 00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:53.699 the season. 728 00:35:54.300 --> 00:35:58.500 Or it's the end of tenants, tenants live. 729 00:35:58.559 --> 00:35:59.280 Yeah, yeah. 730 00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:00.420 You can read it either way. 731 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:03.659 And it's a red herring for the end of the season because he gets 732 00:36:03.659 --> 00:36:04.679 shot by a dalek. 733 00:36:05.099 --> 00:36:08.280 It's supposed to read that as, oh, he might actually die at the 734 00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:10.559 end of this season instead of 5 episodes later. 735 00:36:10.619 --> 00:36:17.460 But there is, there's the oud in his final scene who is singing 736 00:36:17.460 --> 00:36:21.179 him back into the TARDIS before he regenerates. 737 00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:25.199 And I think that that makes this story, which is just a little 738 00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:27.960 standalone that you could kind of easily skip. 739 00:36:28.019 --> 00:36:31.019 It makes it much more central to the era. 740 00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:38.039 And since it's a story of overthrowing oppression, that becomes an 741 00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:41.219 important, you know, that's Russell telling us this is what he 742 00:36:41.219 --> 00:36:43.199 thinks is important in Doctor Who. 743 00:36:43.260 --> 00:36:45.239 To him, that's the heart of the show. 744 00:36:45.300 --> 00:36:46.619 That's what the show is about. 745 00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:51.659 It's about this character who comes into the world, whether it's 746 00:36:51.659 --> 00:36:55.800 you know, owls or an alien planets, and makes things better. 747 00:36:55.860 --> 00:37:01.079 And then that's taken by Stephen and and run with the whole, you 748 00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:04.619 know, the whole reason he chose his name. was because he makes 749 00:37:04.619 --> 00:37:05.760 people better. 750 00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:11.219 But also then it becomes, well, he actually inspired the name 751 00:37:11.219 --> 00:37:11.820 doctor. 752 00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:19.260 And so it's this whole kind of thing, which is really central to 753 00:37:19.260 --> 00:37:25.380 that sort of 1st, you know, what, 12, 13 years, the new series, is 754 00:37:25.380 --> 00:37:27.000 really stuck on this. 755 00:37:27.059 --> 00:37:31.980 And I think it kind of comes in in a big way in this season and in 756 00:37:31.980 --> 00:37:35.880 this story is when it actually starts to really come to the fall. 757 00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.519 Todd, take us somewhere else. 758 00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:53.519 I like the big rocket at the beginning. 759 00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:55.980 Thank you, Todd. 760 00:37:56.039 --> 00:37:58.440 I was so excited to see Hartnell Rockets. 761 00:37:58.500 --> 00:38:01.559 And I always, they're always, and you know, Vicky's always talking 762 00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:04.079 about rockets and rocket ships and we get to see one and it's 763 00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:08.219 totes flash Gordon, and it's also totes a bit new Thunderbirds 764 00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:09.480 very, very warm. 765 00:38:09.539 --> 00:38:13.019 And it's also just a recolorized version of the implausible planet 766 00:38:13.019 --> 00:38:14.519 one. red, not yellow. 767 00:38:14.579 --> 00:38:16.679 And it impresses Donna Greatly. 768 00:38:16.739 --> 00:38:17.280 It does. 769 00:38:17.340 --> 00:38:18.179 It's a Ferrari. 770 00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:20.340 We can see where she's kind of a dirty girl. 771 00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:23.099 It's longer than it is wine. 772 00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:26.820 It is actually, it is actually the same model. 773 00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:28.019 No, of course it is. 774 00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:29.099 Same G model. 775 00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:30.239 Yeah, just recoloured it. 776 00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:30.780 Which one is that? 777 00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:31.800 Is that Thunderbird 2? 778 00:38:31.860 --> 00:38:32.699 That's Thunderbird 3. 779 00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:34.500 Thunderbird 3 has that. 780 00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:36.539 Although, of course, as we know, is everyone is interested in 781 00:38:36.539 --> 00:38:40.139 rocketry and such things is going to be chilling. 782 00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:40.980 Well, it doesn't work. 783 00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:43.440 You need foreigner cells, because you have three, the thing will 784 00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:46.139 spin pretty much as it's spinning in this episode, but slowly, no 785 00:38:46.139 --> 00:38:49.920 rockets need to have 2 or 4 outriggers. 786 00:38:49.980 --> 00:38:52.380 Flying buttresses, like Diana Rick. 787 00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:56.460 When it lands there in the background, I always think of the 788 00:38:56.460 --> 00:39:00.719 master's arrival in my colonic. 789 00:39:00.780 --> 00:39:07.260 For me, the entire Oud operations thing just reminds me of the 790 00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:13.139 Xeroc fruit processing plant in that series 4 episode of Blake 7. 791 00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:14.519 Yes. 792 00:39:14.579 --> 00:39:16.619 When are we doing the Blake Stewart podcast? 793 00:39:16.619 --> 00:39:18.000 It looks like we're doing it now. 794 00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:20.340 That still sounds fresh. 795 00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:21.960 It's gold. 796 00:39:22.019 --> 00:39:27.599 It's gold, by the way, I think, starring Rory Kinnear's slightly 797 00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:28.860 less famous Father Roy. 798 00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:29.639 Yeah. 799 00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:32.579 At the beginning. 800 00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:33.960 I also really like... 801 00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:37.260 The fact that they mentioned that it's real snow. 802 00:39:37.260 --> 00:39:41.820 At last, because we've had all these Christmas specials where it's 803 00:39:41.820 --> 00:39:44.940 like, oh, we think it's snow, but it's burning sickerax. 804 00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:48.119 Obviously, it's fake snow. 805 00:39:48.179 --> 00:39:52.500 But also it was filmed in August in one of the hottest weeks of 806 00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:52.860 that year. 807 00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:56.639 Certainly that final scene where Donna's saying goodbye. 808 00:39:56.699 --> 00:40:01.619 She looks visibly uncomfortable in that sort of big kind of fur 809 00:40:01.619 --> 00:40:03.420 jacket that she's... 810 00:40:03.539 --> 00:40:06.539 But it's sort of lightly sprayed grass. 811 00:40:06.599 --> 00:40:10.500 It looks like Antarctica from the Seeds of Doom. 812 00:40:10.619 --> 00:40:13.860 And it's just that those shots, you know, the plate shots or 813 00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:16.739 whatever they are, the CG shots, which are fantastic, like 814 00:40:16.739 --> 00:40:17.639 beautifully designed. 815 00:40:17.699 --> 00:40:21.059 But then there's a little bit of grass sprayed white kind of 816 00:40:21.059 --> 00:40:24.900 matted into this sort of beautiful, beautiful artwork. 817 00:40:25.019 --> 00:40:29.219 I think all of that stuff is fun and they really go to town on the 818 00:40:29.219 --> 00:40:32.280 fake snow, all the railings are painted in it, like every sort of 819 00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:33.239 available service. 820 00:40:33.300 --> 00:40:35.940 Still not happy because the oud should be hairy. 821 00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:37.980 Oh, because it's so cold. 822 00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:39.960 They should be Tarin wood beasts. 823 00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:42.659 Shouldn't they, Tom? 824 00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:43.860 Maybe they run really hot. 825 00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:45.599 Maybe they maybe. 826 00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:49.260 Look, I think if they're born with their brains in their hands or 827 00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:51.480 bets are off as far as their biology's concerned. 828 00:40:51.719 --> 00:40:54.360 They'd be hopeless at group tennis. 829 00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:57.719 Terribly confusing. 830 00:41:01.260 --> 00:41:04.440 Catherine Tate's the one that shone for me in this one. 831 00:41:04.500 --> 00:41:06.659 And as you say, Esher Darker? 832 00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:12.059 Yeah, it's really just because she was so very much the reason 833 00:41:12.059 --> 00:41:16.440 these models exist and the way that we've all acquired our mobile 834 00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:20.760 telephonic devices is because people like this have sold it to us 835 00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:21.239 if it's okay. 836 00:41:21.300 --> 00:41:22.139 Yeah. 837 00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:25.980 She is, of course, in Attack of the Clones. 838 00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:27.239 Is she? 839 00:41:27.300 --> 00:41:30.719 Yeah, she plays one of the queens of Naboo. 840 00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:32.039 I dont know if it's the one who. 841 00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:35.219 Is it the one who's horribly murdered on the platform in the 842 00:41:35.219 --> 00:41:36.719 1st... 843 00:41:36.780 --> 00:41:37.380 No, no. 844 00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:38.940 I think it's an actual proper queen. 845 00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:44.039 Like it's when we meet Queen Amadala's replacement queen on Nabu 846 00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:44.820 and it's her. 847 00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:46.019 And she's a mating? 848 00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:51.719 She's, look, no, probably more than Natalie Portman is, but that's 849 00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:52.320 not saying much. 850 00:41:52.380 --> 00:41:55.199 So she's she's in that. 851 00:41:55.260 --> 00:42:01.260 But she is incredibly good and she really is kind of central to so 852 00:42:01.260 --> 00:42:01.860 much of it. 853 00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:05.940 She plays a sort of easily overlooked role, but she's perhaps the 854 00:42:05.940 --> 00:42:08.099 most important guest cast member. 855 00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:09.300 I agree. 856 00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:12.179 And she looks glamorous to... outfit. 857 00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:15.539 Black outfit with the with the dress and everything is wonderful. 858 00:42:15.659 --> 00:42:22.440 And it's going back to the point you made earlier, Todd, about how 859 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:28.440 we expect her to, because we know how Doctor Who works, we expect 860 00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:33.300 her to be a character that turns against her employers because 861 00:42:33.300 --> 00:42:36.300 what they're doing is wrong and we expect that. 862 00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:38.159 We expect that's Doctor Who archetype. 863 00:42:38.219 --> 00:42:43.079 We expect that to occur and where it doesn't, it wrongfoots you. 864 00:42:43.139 --> 00:42:50.460 And then you get a wonderful scene where she gets her comeuppance 865 00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:55.139 like, and and and people die in this in this episode in a really 866 00:42:55.139 --> 00:42:56.699 appropriate way. 867 00:42:56.760 --> 00:43:01.679 She actually orders some of the to shoot the oo. 868 00:43:01.739 --> 00:43:02.519 Do you know what I mean? 869 00:43:02.579 --> 00:43:05.699 Like she she makes her decision and then really leans into it. 870 00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:09.840 And so she becomes, you know, well and truly deserving of the 871 00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:10.139 death. 872 00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:14.159 And that's the fun thing about when the oud rise up and start 873 00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:14.880 killing people. 874 00:43:14.940 --> 00:43:16.320 The people deserve it. 875 00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:20.099 And so it's actually really sort of rather satisfying. is a 876 00:43:20.099 --> 00:43:20.880 Malcolm Hulk story. 877 00:43:20.940 --> 00:43:21.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 878 00:43:22.980 --> 00:43:25.619 Okay, I've got one question. 879 00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:30.300 Do the events of this story play out any differently if the doctor 880 00:43:30.300 --> 00:43:31.980 and Donna are not present? 881 00:43:32.940 --> 00:43:34.320 No. 882 00:43:34.380 --> 00:43:36.300 I don't think so. 883 00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:38.579 It's a Colin Baker story. 884 00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:42.059 Why are you looking at me? 885 00:43:42.059 --> 00:43:43.619 Because you like Colin. 886 00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:47.159 As do I. Big finish. 887 00:43:47.219 --> 00:43:49.380 It's a good question, Nathan. 888 00:43:49.500 --> 00:43:50.159 I'm trying to think. 889 00:43:51.059 --> 00:43:55.260 Well, Dr. Writer have been got into Warehouse 15. 890 00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:57.539 Yeah, so if they hadn't got in. 891 00:43:57.599 --> 00:43:59.880 So the doctor switches off the circle. 892 00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:03.179 He also switches off the little the little Lego bombs. 893 00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:05.280 He's the only one that remembers to do that. 894 00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:10.139 Yes, they would have just carelessly forgot. 895 00:44:10.139 --> 00:44:11.280 Yes, there is always a moment. 896 00:44:11.340 --> 00:44:14.940 He's the trikster, all that he's actually, I'm Sylvester McCoy is 897 00:44:14.940 --> 00:44:17.820 the fool in Lear. the one that's working on the backgrounds. 898 00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:19.139 Oh gosh, we're back to Kinder. 899 00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:24.480 That's the thing though. the enslaved people have the revolution 900 00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:25.800 and save themselves. 901 00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:32.340 And it would have been less satisfying if David Tennant had just 902 00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:36.780 come in and overthrown it, that they had their own agency, that 903 00:44:36.780 --> 00:44:41.039 with Dr. Ryder's help, Like Dr. Ryder lowers the, you know 904 00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:46.199 intensity of the circle so that the oud start to get red eye and 905 00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:47.340 start to rebel. 906 00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:52.079 But basically the oo do it, but maybe that's the right decision. 907 00:44:52.139 --> 00:44:55.320 Yeah, there would have been slightly more explosions and slightly 908 00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:57.900 more deaths without the doctor there. 909 00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:00.239 So he's really fiddling around the edges. 910 00:45:00.300 --> 00:45:02.099 He's not driving the plot. 911 00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:04.380 He's a proper 60s doctor again. 912 00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:07.679 We get confused because we expect the doctor to always be pert we 913 00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:12.239 on, but really, and actually Davidson was doing it as well, but 914 00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:15.360 really the 60s doctors would have would have fitted very nicely 915 00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:15.719 into this. 916 00:45:15.780 --> 00:45:19.679 So essentially, when the oud say, thank you very much for saving 917 00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:23.280 us, and you're wonderful, and you'll never be forgotten, they were 918 00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:24.000 just being polite. 919 00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:54.900 Well, dear, listen, we've travelled to the past and the future, and 920 00:45:54.900 --> 00:45:58.559 so it's time to fire up our satnavs and head back to Earth to see 921 00:45:58.559 --> 00:45:59.820 how Martha's getting on. 922 00:45:59.880 --> 00:46:03.840 We'll see you next week for another perennial fan favourite, the 923 00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:05.280 Son Taran stratagem. 924 00:46:05.340 --> 00:46:08.880 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts 925 00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:11.699 and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook 926 00:46:11.699 --> 00:46:14.699 at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website 927 00:46:14.699 --> 00:46:17.820 FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other 928 00:46:17.820 --> 00:46:20.880 podcasts, Bondfinger, and Jody into Terror. 929 00:46:20.940 --> 00:46:25.860 Until next time, remember that there is no ethical consumption 930 00:46:25.860 --> 00:46:27.780 under capitalism. 931 00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:31.260 But not to worry, we're certain that everything will turn out just 932 00:46:31.260 --> 00:46:31.800 fine. 933 00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:34.800 Thank you very much for listening, and good night. 934 00:46:34.860 --> 00:46:36.059 Good night. 935 00:46:36.119 --> 00:46:36.900 See you soon. 936 00:46:37.019 --> 00:46:39.960 I want to go, but yes, good night. 937 00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:46.739 That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd B, it'll be Nathan 938 00:46:46.739 --> 00:46:48.659 Bottomley, James Selwood, and Richard Stone. 939 00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:51.719 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane 940 00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:52.500 Orberg. 941 00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:56.340 This episode, the Icy Moral High Ground, was recorded on the 1st 942 00:46:56.340 --> 00:46:59.400 of February 2020 and released on the 29th of March. 943 00:47:02.820 --> 00:47:06.719 Flight through Entirety makes no profit and runs as an Anaco 944 00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:07.619 syndicalist community. 945 00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:11.940 It is organic, non-toxic, and cruelty free, except for the 946 00:47:11.940 --> 00:47:14.940 occasional completely unwarranted remark about Billy Piper's 947 00:47:14.940 --> 00:47:15.239 teeth. 948 00:47:16.679 --> 00:47:18.360 How are we going? 949 00:47:18.420 --> 00:47:20.639 Do we have any closing statements? 950 00:47:20.699 --> 00:47:24.480 I'll just say something fresh about it, but well, it's a very 951 00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:25.559 simple linear story. 952 00:47:25.619 --> 00:47:27.179 So really, yeah, it's a bit of a. 953 00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:27.900 We have seen it before. 954 00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:32.219 But it's saved by performances and by the very slick direction. 955 00:47:32.340 --> 00:47:34.619 I think it just, it's the simplicity of it. 956 00:47:34.679 --> 00:47:37.199 It is just, you know, these are oppressed and they rise up and do 957 00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:37.380 it. 958 00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:38.099 Okay, I've got one. 959 00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:38.940 Which is what it should be. 960 00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:41.519 You should have actually filmed before the season opener as well. 961 00:47:41.579 --> 00:47:43.079 I think this is the tag. 962 00:47:43.139 --> 00:47:45.420 Okay, I've got one question.