WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:38:11 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.500 God, I've missed doing these with you. 2 00:00:01.560 --> 00:00:05.219 Why have we waited 2.5 seasons, Brandon? 3 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:07.620 I demand that we do one next year. 4 00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:09.300 That were my list of things. 5 00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:11.220 Let's do the doctor's daughter, darling. 6 00:00:11.279 --> 00:00:12.539 Well, I demand that. 7 00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:13.380 Yes, that's excellent. 8 00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:15.359 I think you would probably redeem that for me. 9 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:16.800 James, the doctor's daughter, please. 10 00:00:52.859 --> 00:00:56.100 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety. 11 00:00:56.159 --> 00:01:02.700 The only Doctor Who podcast to produce more than 185 episodes in just under 7 days. 12 00:01:02.759 --> 00:01:06.060 We're exhausted I'm Nathan. 13 00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:06.959 I'm Brendan. 14 00:01:07.019 --> 00:01:07.680 I'm Todd. 15 00:01:07.739 --> 00:01:08.640 And I'm a Hath. 16 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:14.280 Stay away from the bathtop here. 17 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:28.920 Well, before we launch into the triumphant home stretch of series four, let's take a quick pit stop at an old theatre to make time for Donna to do some counting, the doctor to do some gurning and for Martha to do some emoting and a drowning fish. 18 00:01:28.980 --> 00:01:32.760 Sorry, everyone, but it's time for you to meet the doctor's daughter. 19 00:01:44.819 --> 00:01:51.780 So, for me, this is really quite a complex and sensitive exploration of the futility of war. 20 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:53.700 Is that how you feel about it, Todd? 21 00:01:54.900 --> 00:01:56.939 What are you talking about? 22 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:00.719 I've never thought of it in those terms ever. 23 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:03.659 Something about futility in there. 24 00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:10.020 Sorry, I'm still struggling with jetmag. 25 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:11.460 I can't get my brain around that. 26 00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:15.960 There is a sense, I think, in which it kind of would quite like to be that. 27 00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:22.979 You've got 2 sides of sort of people who are being manufactured at scale in order to fight a kind of pointless war with each other. 28 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:28.259 They are enemies of each other for no readily apparent reason. 29 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:32.520 They're seeking something that's sort of mythological and absolutely not important. 30 00:02:32.580 --> 00:02:42.240 And, you know, when peace is made, the kind of leader of one of them can not cope with that and kind of refuses to allow it to happen. 31 00:02:42.300 --> 00:02:47.819 So there is a sense, I think, in which this actually attempts to be about something. 32 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:58.259 Well, the doctor even references the Vietnam War when they discover the human command camp, if you like, in the theatre, he quips, oh, perhaps they're doing Miss Saigon. 33 00:02:58.319 --> 00:02:59.039 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 34 00:02:59.099 --> 00:02:59.939 That is quite good. 35 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:00.719 Yeah, is good. 36 00:03:00.780 --> 00:03:01.800 And that is a choice. 37 00:03:01.860 --> 00:03:04.379 He's not saying perhaps they're doing any get your gun. 38 00:03:04.439 --> 00:03:06.360 He's not saying perhaps they're doing Oklahoma. 39 00:03:06.419 --> 00:03:13.139 He's not saying have a new Q. You know, he picks Miss Saigon because that is a musical about war. 40 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:17.340 Yeah, with 1000s of Vietnamese children in rags swarming across the stage. 41 00:03:17.460 --> 00:03:35.099 And, you know, you could argue that war is always pointless, but a particularly pointless war and one of the 1st wars where a lot of the residents of the countries who were in Vietnam were saying, actually, we probably shouldn't be doing this. 42 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:37.800 So why is it so stupid then? 43 00:03:37.860 --> 00:03:49.439 Well, the tone is more Avenue Q. It's silly is the problem, but it's not silly enough to be entertaining. 44 00:03:49.500 --> 00:03:51.599 It's just it's kind of NAF. 45 00:03:51.659 --> 00:03:58.139 It's got ideas behind it, but then it doesn't execute any of them very well, but it also takes itself very seriously. 46 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:02.099 There's not a lot of humour sort of endemic to the story in there. 47 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:02.520 No. 48 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:18.360 Yeah, I think I think you've hit on it there in that it's trying to do several things, including, it's trying to be the doctor's daughter thought bubble that Russell T. Davies had, and understandably, that's an irresistible idea, but it's also the Martha Trapped in space story. 49 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:24.720 And those 2 things, as we see, are probably enough to fill an episode on their own. 50 00:04:24.779 --> 00:04:28.740 You put both of them together in an episode and neither is adequately explored. 51 00:04:29.579 --> 00:04:32.819 But I also think the problem is the stupid fish. 52 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:37.740 I think that's like it is an absolute problem, the half are ridiculous. 53 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:44.220 And they are ungainly, like they look stupid in profile. 54 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:54.959 There's some decent sort of animatronics and stuff in the masks, but there's whole scenes where there's no dialogue or just Martha's dialogue and everyone else is sort of standing around bubbling at each other. 55 00:04:55.019 --> 00:04:56.220 And it's absurd. 56 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:56.879 Exactly. 57 00:04:56.939 --> 00:04:58.740 I mean, talk about a puzzling creative choice. 58 00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:06.899 Everybody's looking at me because I've gone very quiet, just burple at us. 59 00:05:06.899 --> 00:05:09.180 I like the Hath. 60 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:10.079 Do you? 61 00:05:10.139 --> 00:05:10.920 Okay. 62 00:05:10.980 --> 00:05:11.579 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 63 00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:12.540 See, I quite like them too. 64 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:13.379 They're quite cute. 65 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:14.879 I like them as well. 66 00:05:14.939 --> 00:05:17.399 I think the only problem with the burbling is it's not subtitled. 67 00:05:17.459 --> 00:05:27.480 It would have been interesting, I think, to subtitle them for the audience because at the beginning, Martha doesn't understand them, but suddenly she starts understanding them and she's able to talk to Peck. 68 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:35.220 Yeah, and we don't know at what point there's no realisation or I don't think it's at all clear when she, you know, that she understands them, isn't it? 69 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:37.079 Well, after most of them go off. 70 00:05:37.139 --> 00:05:39.540 Is she and Pecker looking at the map? 71 00:05:39.540 --> 00:05:45.420 And the way he responds to her, she then responds to him, you know, it seems like, oh, that's outside, yeah. 72 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:46.680 Well, there's just a bit of radiation. 73 00:05:46.740 --> 00:05:48.899 Oh yeah, I knew you'd come with me. 74 00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:51.600 You know, she is responding to what he's saying. 75 00:05:51.660 --> 00:06:07.680 And I looked into sort of cut material and whatnot because I thought maybe there was a line cut where for some reason the TARDIS can't translate them, but they give her a translator patch or whatever because there's that awesome bit where they're all like touching her and touching her. 76 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:10.920 Exactly. 77 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:13.500 And just, I, God, I love Freema. 78 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:24.120 And isn't this episode just a show of Freema will give you 100% even when she's dealing with a script that asks her to do the most ridiculous thing. 79 00:06:24.180 --> 00:06:27.240 In fact, when Peck dies, she gives them much more than 100%. 80 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:30.420 It's miserable, isn't it? 81 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:38.639 So we talked last week or the last 2 weeks about the fact that we have Freeman back and we get her to play Evil Freeman. 82 00:06:38.699 --> 00:06:43.139 We don't get her to do any of the things that we really loved her for last year. 83 00:06:43.259 --> 00:06:45.480 And separate her from the doctor for most of those episodes. 84 00:06:45.540 --> 00:06:46.680 Yeah, that's right. 85 00:06:46.740 --> 00:06:51.240 And now, like in the cold open, she's immediately separated from them. 86 00:06:51.300 --> 00:06:52.800 She doesn't see them until the end. 87 00:06:52.860 --> 00:06:57.000 She has no one to kind of give her anything back. 88 00:06:57.060 --> 00:07:02.759 It's these people in these sort of preposterous masks that she's having to interact with the entire time. 89 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:12.600 So she's carrying all of these scenes on her own in a plot that is completely disposable that could have been excised from the episode and we wouldn't have lost anything at all. 90 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:19.740 It's really super thankless and they get her to flail about in the mud and stuff like that. 91 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:23.100 After flailing about in the goo last story as well. 92 00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:24.060 Yeah, yeah. 93 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:28.439 And she has to emote at a drowning fish, as I said, and she really goes over the top. 94 00:07:28.500 --> 00:07:32.100 But I just suspect that she was like super bored, you know? 95 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:34.680 She gives it so much more than it deserves. 96 00:07:34.740 --> 00:07:36.660 And I just, you know, I hail her for that. 97 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:38.939 I mean, you know, there's a fish drowning in front of you. 98 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:39.600 Oh no. 99 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:48.959 I mean, no, I mean, you know, does she feel guilt because she lured it out onto the surface and promised it, it would be okay. 100 00:07:49.019 --> 00:07:50.160 I don't know. 101 00:07:50.220 --> 00:07:53.699 She doesn't give us the opportunity to say that and she never refers to the fish again. 102 00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:55.920 And even if she did, it might not have understood her. 103 00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:56.759 It would have just nodded. 104 00:07:59.819 --> 00:08:00.899 It's a big waste of her. 105 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:05.160 And the whole thing sort of screamed contractual obligation, doesn't it? 106 00:08:05.220 --> 00:08:09.899 It's kind of like, we'll give you 7 episodes next year or 5 episodes or whatever. 107 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:10.920 She does five, doesn't she? 108 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:12.300 Five and 3 torchwood. 109 00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:16.560 Yeah, it will give you that many episodes, but it really doesn't matter what we do with you. 110 00:08:16.620 --> 00:08:19.620 You're just a kind of warm body standing in front of the camera. 111 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:37.440 One of the things originally. when I watched this season was that I completely agree with you about Martha and her treatment and bringing her back, her 3 episodes for me were by far the weakest of the entire season. 112 00:08:37.500 --> 00:08:46.320 And I really despised the Santara episodes because I hated the uses of Santara and how bland unit was. 113 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:49.559 And I didn't really like Martha, like very much originally either. 114 00:08:49.559 --> 00:08:55.259 And it was written by Helen Rayner, who wrote that appalling Dalek story the previous year. 115 00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:56.879 So we just had all these black marks. 116 00:08:56.940 --> 00:08:58.919 And so they were the worst episodes. 117 00:08:58.980 --> 00:09:02.759 So this episode was slightly better, right? 118 00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:09.240 Because she actually, well, it wasn't 2 episodes off since Terence, basically, and it wasn't Helen Rayner. 119 00:09:09.299 --> 00:09:19.740 Of course, we've explored last series. and Helen's writing of that Dalek story, which I probably don't like as much as everybody else. 120 00:09:19.799 --> 00:09:27.240 But coming back to the Santarian one, like I actually said, look, I'm going to give this a go, like, because I actually could see what she was trying to do with the Dalek one. 121 00:09:27.299 --> 00:09:30.299 And I love Freeman now. 122 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:36.659 So, of course, it went from surprise, surprise people to the universe. 123 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:39.480 Like it went from 5 out of 10 to suddenly 8 out of 10. 124 00:09:39.659 --> 00:09:41.820 I thought the 1st episode was fabulous, right? 125 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:43.799 Except for the cliffhanger, which was just terrible. 126 00:09:43.860 --> 00:09:46.860 And the 2nd episode's not as good, but I still enjoy it. 127 00:09:46.980 --> 00:09:49.860 I probably would give it like a 7.25. 128 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:59.340 So I was really concerned coming in watching this particular episode because I always thought it was one of the weakest 3 of the season. 129 00:09:59.340 --> 00:10:02.580 And I actually think it is the weakest episode of the entire year. 130 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:04.379 But I still give it. 131 00:10:04.500 --> 00:10:06.720 Oh my goodness. 7 out of 10. 132 00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:09.840 I still I enjoy it, right? 133 00:10:09.899 --> 00:10:30.000 And I enjoy all the talking between the doctor and Donna about his past and his family and it actually, I think, gives an opportunity to explore that side of things and give it a bit of breath into the show, like to reiterate that he does have family, right? 134 00:10:30.059 --> 00:10:33.840 And what is he like with his 2 hearts and all that sort of stuff. 135 00:10:33.899 --> 00:10:36.720 And I actually, this time around, I thought there was actually a lot of talking about that. 136 00:10:36.779 --> 00:10:39.059 And I really like that part of the episode. 137 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:41.340 And actually, I like the daughter as well. 138 00:10:41.700 --> 00:10:46.919 And the fact that we've got Martha and I really adored her, right, this time around. 139 00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:48.840 I really love. 140 00:10:49.019 --> 00:10:50.159 I actually love all Peter. 141 00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:52.200 I actually really love her crying at that fish. 142 00:10:52.259 --> 00:10:53.700 I actually get enough. 143 00:10:53.700 --> 00:10:54.960 That sequence, she's giving it. 144 00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:56.399 You have to give it to her. 145 00:10:56.460 --> 00:10:58.559 But I actually really think she does a great job there. 146 00:10:58.620 --> 00:11:12.059 And so for me, it's performances of Freemer and obviously David and Georgia, in particular, who I and Catherine, that make me like this episode. 147 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:12.539 Right. 148 00:11:12.539 --> 00:11:14.100 It's not old Rumble Bum. 149 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:21.779 The whatever his name is the Cobb, General Cobblers, whatever, who's appalling, and that whole plot. 150 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:22.559 It's just a device. 151 00:11:22.620 --> 00:11:34.019 I think it's more of an explanation about the doctor and his relationships with family and educating the new fans of Doctor Who a bit about his history, that he does have a history. 152 00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:43.080 You see, Todd, I think therein lies the problem that Martha Freeman is actually giving a good performance in those scenes, but the episode doesn't deserve it. 153 00:11:43.139 --> 00:11:47.700 The episode doesn't deserve that emotional weight because it's too lightweight and too disposable. 154 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:56.039 And I was saying earlier, it's NAF, but it's not NAF in a fun way, like New Earth or Evolution of the Daleks, maybe. 155 00:11:56.100 --> 00:11:58.200 It's just disposable. 156 00:11:58.259 --> 00:12:15.539 I think, too, that the big problem with her performance in that scene is that it's a stupid drowning fish. who she's had a few scenes with and now it's, you know, the most affecting death that she's ever experienced while she's been with a doctor, apparently. 157 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:17.220 Well, she was the last personality. 158 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:17.700 Japan. 159 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:18.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 160 00:12:18.899 --> 00:12:19.559 That's it. 161 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:21.539 She's been through much, much worse than that. 162 00:12:21.899 --> 00:12:28.860 It's just bathos, you know, like it just seemed bizarre and inappropriate. 163 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:33.059 It's great anguish acting, but it just seemed to be wasted on the wrong topic. 164 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:34.139 Unearned. 165 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:43.080 But I don't mind if fish actually drowning because like it's got its own little bubbly source of liquid, which may not be the same as the liquid in that lake. 166 00:12:43.139 --> 00:12:46.139 And so when that glass shatters, then it's contaminated. 167 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:49.320 And the glass does shatter, I did notice that this time, yeah. 168 00:12:49.379 --> 00:12:55.980 See, I have never noticed the glass shattering, and I was reading that during the dubbing stage. 169 00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:58.559 They're like, hold on, the fish drown. 170 00:12:59.100 --> 00:13:02.399 And Russell said, oh, well, just add in the glass breaking. 171 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:04.860 And the thing is, I've never noticed it. 172 00:13:04.919 --> 00:13:07.379 I have actually always been with Tom. 173 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:12.120 Like I know I've joined him with a fish drowning joke, but I've always been told in that that doesn't look like water. 174 00:13:12.179 --> 00:13:13.259 No, no. 175 00:13:13.259 --> 00:13:14.759 You know, that doesn't look like pure water. 176 00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:17.700 And the doctors told us before, you're 70% water. you can still drown. 177 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:19.019 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 178 00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:20.879 But still, is a fish that drowns. 179 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:36.419 See, I think the purpose of that scene in the plot, which makes it both a success and a big problem is that the point of it is to give Martha a definite reason to go home. 180 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:41.220 Now, yeah, she's already engaged, but of course, this is a massive temptation to go on travelling. 181 00:13:41.580 --> 00:13:44.580 So they give her a really crappy episode. 182 00:13:44.700 --> 00:13:47.220 She decides she doesn't want to stay. 183 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:48.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 184 00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:54.960 She, you know, she has a horrible time in this episode and a creature sacrifices itself for her and she has to watch it die. 185 00:13:55.019 --> 00:13:58.379 And so she's like, no, that's it. 186 00:13:58.440 --> 00:13:59.399 I can't do this anymore. 187 00:13:59.460 --> 00:14:00.179 I want to go home. 188 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:07.379 But the problem is, the subtext of that is Martha is no longer worthy to travel in the Tartars. 189 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:13.740 And that's what I got watching this because she's not being Donner and being clever and figuring out the mystery. 190 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:18.059 Like Martha's big contribution to the plot is that someone dies for her. 191 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:19.019 Right. 192 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:24.720 Again, I don't think that's the intention, but I think that's the problem with jamming these 2 plots together. 193 00:14:24.779 --> 00:14:26.580 It's not considered. 194 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:43.379 I don't think it undermines her departure last year because she still leaves on her own terms and she still leaves to go to something positive and at the very end, there's this sort of bizarre moment where she looks at her engagement ring and goes, oh, that's right, I'm engaged and then kind of walks off. 195 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.440 I'm engaged to Lucifer, for God's sake. 196 00:14:46.500 --> 00:14:48.659 Why am I going after that tall streak of misery? 197 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:53.340 So, Brendan, basically, are you saying that hell hath no fury like a woman's gone? 198 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:54.899 Oh God. 199 00:14:54.899 --> 00:14:55.379 Sorry. 200 00:15:02.820 --> 00:15:14.759 I actually agree with both Nathan and Brendan in the sense that I think this fish dying for her is just a reinforcement of, you know, all the deaths that she has seen and it's so pointless. 201 00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:21.000 Yeah, I just think that it just reinforces her decision that this is not for her anymore. 202 00:15:21.059 --> 00:15:24.299 And I don't see, I don't think it undermines her at all. 203 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:25.019 I don't see that. 204 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:38.820 No, in fact, there's that bit at the very beginning of the episode where both Donna and Martha Bond over this being the fun bit of the episode, they go out into the TARDIS and discover what the world's like, and that's really fun, and both of them appreciate it. 205 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:46.200 I think their relationship, Donna, and Martha, throughout these 3 episodes, is actually great. 206 00:15:46.259 --> 00:15:52.799 I think it's really warm and lovely, and it would have been nice to have had another one where they actually got to team up, separated from the doctor. 207 00:15:52.860 --> 00:15:57.600 I think that would have been nice They're both sort of in the companions club from the start, aren't they? 208 00:15:57.659 --> 00:16:00.419 They're kind of, even at the start of the Son Torrance, you party. 209 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:05.399 They kind of embrace each other and recognise each other's kind of experience, even if it wasn't shared. 210 00:16:05.460 --> 00:16:10.620 It's like Rose and Sarah Jane after they got over their initial bump in school reunion. 211 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:12.840 It's just, it is a lovely relationship. 212 00:16:12.899 --> 00:16:18.299 And I like at the end when they drop Martha back, how Martha and Donna walk off down the street leaving the doctor behind. 213 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:19.200 That's great. 214 00:16:19.259 --> 00:16:35.759 I think it's a little bit of a shame the way the show has gone with kind of companions and casting and contracts and stuff that that's never happened again, that all of the companions from now on will leave for sort of stupid science fiction reasons. 215 00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:43.139 And so the doctor never ends up having a group of people on earth who know him, who like him. 216 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:52.320 And I've always felt that Russell gets that right, you know, for those 1st 2 seasons, he has a group of people who know him. 217 00:16:52.379 --> 00:17:06.480 And I always felt that in the 80s, I mean, maybe even in the Colin Baker era, the fact that it's just the doctor and Perry, and they don't seem to know anyone else, and that always makes me feel a little bit sad, you know. 218 00:17:06.539 --> 00:17:19.859 Yeah, it's like, as to drag us into 2020 for a moment, as much as I have really enjoyed series 12 of Doctor Who, I do regret that we haven't spent as much time with the cons as I would have liked. 219 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:28.380 Like we've had some great scenes with Sonya, but Naja and Hakeem have just been pushed off to one side and they're great. 220 00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:30.359 I would love to see more of Najia. 221 00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:31.440 Who knows? 222 00:17:31.500 --> 00:17:35.220 We literally have no idea what's going to happen to the companions at the end of this series. 223 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:37.200 Yes, for once, you know. 224 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:38.880 You know all of you at home, no. 225 00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:44.579 Yeah, by the time we've, yeah, we are recording this just before episode 9 goes out. 226 00:17:45.420 --> 00:17:48.779 And yeah, we don't know, and that's really exciting. 227 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:57.240 But the other thing that made me think of that is, of course, this week, Chris Chibnall has said, of course I'd like to bring old characters back. 228 00:17:57.299 --> 00:18:00.420 And he specifically mentions Amy and Rory. 229 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:04.680 And initially I rolled my eyes, because I've said before on the podcast, I don't really like Amy. 230 00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:12.539 But then I thought about cold blood, Hungry Earth, Power of 3 dinosaurs on a spaceship, and it's like, hold on. 231 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:16.259 Chris Gibnall writes Amy as really likeable. 232 00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:18.299 Yeah, Amy and Rory. 233 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:19.680 He does a great job of both of them. 234 00:18:19.740 --> 00:18:27.900 I also want to mention that he wants Tegan and or Ace back as well, and I'm totally on board for both of those, but especially Tegan. 235 00:18:27.900 --> 00:18:28.859 Definitely. 236 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:29.279 Definitely. 237 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:37.559 One performance I really want to praise in this episode is actually David Tennant. 238 00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:40.920 Oh, I dislike him enormously in this. 239 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:41.579 Ooh, okay. 240 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:49.259 You see, what I like about it is when he's playing the emotional stuff about having lost his family, for once he actually underplays it to Donna. 241 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:51.720 Like when he says to Donna, I was a father. 242 00:18:51.779 --> 00:18:55.799 He, you know, it's almost a murmur or a whisper. 243 00:18:55.859 --> 00:19:00.539 He actually says it quietly instead of the rage of a time lord. 244 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:03.119 It's, you know, it's genuine pain. 245 00:19:03.180 --> 00:19:13.140 And then whenever Jenny does anything to impress him, he looks thrilled, but there's still this kind of furrowed brow of, no, don't, don't, don't get attached. 246 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:13.740 Don't do it. 247 00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:14.400 Don't do it. 248 00:19:14.460 --> 00:19:28.859 So there's one scene where he talks about the legacy of being a time law, that being a time lord isn't just about having a certain genetics or a certain parentage, that it's about being the heir to a sort of long legacy of things. 249 00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:33.900 And that's when he's being sort of super grandiose and stuff. 250 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:39.420 And he's horribly dismissive of Jenny and her identity and her experience. 251 00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:53.819 And I just find that performance so slappable. despite the fact that Murray Gold does the little, this is galafray music in a really sort of light, soft, gentle kind of elegiac way. 252 00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:58.140 I think that's beautiful, but tenant's performance there really annoys me. 253 00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:00.000 He's super smug and unlikeable. 254 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:04.079 But that is so when he does accept Jenny later in the episode. 255 00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:05.940 It's it's effective. 256 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.980 I have always read that performance where he's being like really snug and horrid. 257 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:13.500 He's being egotistical. 258 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:17.400 He's making this about him and about his man pain. 259 00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:18.420 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 260 00:20:18.420 --> 00:20:28.859 So then Donna kind of says to him, well, you know, if she's got the 2 hearts and she's got the perspective of wanting to explore and she's got the questioning of why she's fighting. 261 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:29.759 How is she different from you? 262 00:20:29.819 --> 00:20:35.099 Yeah, she doesn't need to have a big collar or be from the sort of Prydonian Academy or something. 263 00:20:35.220 --> 00:20:42.599 And that's what I love about this episode, that Donna takes him through this journey from that point that you don't like, right? 264 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:45.000 to obviously the scene that you do, Brendan. 265 00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:46.799 And I love I love all that. 266 00:20:46.859 --> 00:20:52.019 That's what that's, for me, the real strength and the heart of this episode and seeing the doctor come to that realisation. 267 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:57.599 I think his terrible pickup a Ghana name at the general, I never would over the top stuff at the end. 268 00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:58.319 Utterly awful. 269 00:20:58.380 --> 00:21:00.480 Or maybe his worst performance ever. 270 00:21:00.539 --> 00:21:08.880 There is an element there, I think, of what we were saying earlier about Freema, where he's giving it is all to compensate for something that really doesn't work and isn't earned on the page. 271 00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:09.720 Yeah. 272 00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:22.019 And although shots of Freema and Donna, looking shocked, when Jenny shot and looking shocked when the doctor does that, were recorded like 2 weeks later at a completely different exterior garden. 273 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:24.839 They found another botanical garden somewhere in Cardiff. 274 00:21:24.900 --> 00:21:37.259 Some of the shooting days for this story were disrupted, mainly the stuff in the half encampment, because that was a civic hall, outside which there was a protest about a closing primary school. 275 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:51.720 So after all the half leave, the scenes with just half Peck, named after Gregory Peck. and Martha were recorded in a totally different location. that they had to like redress as best they could. 276 00:21:51.779 --> 00:21:53.339 And look, I couldn't tell. 277 00:21:53.400 --> 00:22:08.940 And I think Alice Troughton's direction helps that because when all the half are there, she actually kind of shoots it from Martha's perspective of it's very confusing, there's lots of movement around her, Freema, of course, I think is about 5 foot 6 and all the half are like 6 foot six. 278 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:13.140 So she's surrounded by these gentle monsters, if you like. 279 00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:19.920 Look, one thing in this episode I can praise is the cinematography and the visual direction. 280 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:24.539 That's not the performance direction because, yeah, you're right, Todd, Cobb is dreadful. 281 00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:31.259 It is the most wooden performance of any spaceship stroke base commander since that narcoleptic old fossil in the arc. 282 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:42.000 You know, I'm actually offended by the fact that they pick someone with an Irish accent to carry on this pointless war. 283 00:22:42.059 --> 00:22:45.180 And so it, don't you think it's gross? 284 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:59.039 So it kind of takes whatever it was that went on in Ireland and turns it into 2 sides that have just been manufactured to hate one another for no reason at all. 285 00:22:59.099 --> 00:23:01.259 And they're continuing this wall. 286 00:23:02.099 --> 00:23:02.880 Well, isn't it? 287 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:11.519 Like, I don't, I think it's about war generally, but I just think it's a miscalculation to give Cobb an Irish accent or to get him to use his Irish accent. 288 00:23:11.579 --> 00:23:14.519 I think it was a miscalculation to maybe cast that actor. 289 00:23:14.579 --> 00:23:17.640 It was a puzzling creative choice, as is his performance. 290 00:23:17.819 --> 00:23:22.140 His Wikipedia page says that he dedicated himself to the classical stage. 291 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:23.759 Good luck with that. 292 00:23:23.819 --> 00:23:26.039 Just like Jenny Lair. 293 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:33.839 I can only imagine that it was like bringing his audiences down so that more people wouldn't be exposed to his performances. 294 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.480 Did they did they play Romeo and Juliet together? 295 00:23:38.099 --> 00:23:40.859 Romeo, my husband, my love. 296 00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:41.519 Why did you do it? 297 00:23:41.579 --> 00:23:42.240 Why, why? 298 00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:45.059 And he's got utterly awful teeth as well. 299 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:48.660 I don't get it too. 300 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:56.220 If those machines, the generators produce like generations, generations and generations of young people. 301 00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:57.180 What happened? 302 00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:02.160 One of them had a fluff in its sprocket, and he, like, he, or does he know that we've only been fighting for a week? 303 00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:05.339 Or do they all like age really quickly? 304 00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:06.240 That's it. 305 00:24:06.299 --> 00:24:07.319 He's just 3 days old? 306 00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:12.180 I just, I just don't like that it's a 7 days since the start of the war. 307 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:15.480 I just, you know, this is, this is, I just have a problem. 308 00:24:15.539 --> 00:24:19.920 And so please, Nathan and Brendan, I'm with you. stupid. 309 00:24:19.980 --> 00:24:31.380 And I'm the one who thinks that it's okay that the traffic jams in new, new, new, new, new, new, new, New York last for people's entire lifetimes because I think that's making a allegorical point. 310 00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:33.000 This thing for 7 days. 311 00:24:33.059 --> 00:24:34.019 Like, what the hell? 312 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:35.460 how does it even work? 313 00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:38.700 Well, they've chosen 7 days to be a Genesis parable. 314 00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:39.240 Yeah sure. 315 00:24:39.299 --> 00:24:43.319 But I think, just logistically, a month. 316 00:24:43.380 --> 00:24:46.200 Just make it a month instead of 7 days. 317 00:24:46.259 --> 00:24:52.740 And in a month, you can conceivably have this degradation of knowledge, I think. 318 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:56.279 Enough time that maybe a living memory has passed rather than days. 319 00:24:56.339 --> 00:25:00.240 But if we saw lots of people being killed, do you know what I mean? 320 00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:16.200 Like if it was a convincing war and people were going out and being killed in enormous numbers and they were having to manufacture lots of people to replace them, if there was any indication of that rather than we're hanging around a theatre in a ballroom and talking, what's you from Skins just kind of hanging around outside a cell dwarf? 321 00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:16.740 Yes, to his life. 322 00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:18.480 Joe Dempsey, yeah Joe Dempsey. 323 00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:20.339 Can I say he's got really bad skin in this episode? 324 00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:22.799 Yeah, well, they've got bad teeth, bad stuff. 325 00:25:22.859 --> 00:25:23.460 Listen to you. 326 00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:25.079 Send him all off to the clinic. 327 00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:29.279 But the other thing is, it doesn't make sense like 7 days. 328 00:25:29.339 --> 00:25:34.859 If we actually saw them ageing, like the people from the leisure hive, like really rapidly and dying. 329 00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:36.359 Then I could probably buy it. 330 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.819 Or if waves and waves of them were being killed. 331 00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:47.759 And so we had, you know, um, 20 generations a day or whatever, um, because the death hole had been so great. 332 00:25:47.819 --> 00:25:52.799 But, you know, they're all sort of hanging around in this sort of, I mean, look at the map. 333 00:25:52.859 --> 00:25:56.400 It looks like a dungeons and dragons module, doesn't it? 334 00:25:56.460 --> 00:25:59.640 You know, like all of these rooms connected by corridors and things. 335 00:25:59.700 --> 00:26:03.720 And the locations, like what the hell is going on? 336 00:26:03.779 --> 00:26:06.180 I think that's a serious problem with this episode. 337 00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:13.680 I think it undermines the episode and it makes it look like student project in that it was a breakdown in production. 338 00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:17.039 They weren't able to find anywhere that looked suitable. 339 00:26:17.099 --> 00:26:20.940 And so you end up shooting in an old theatre. 340 00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:24.480 There's lines lampshading it everywhere when they turn up in the botanical gardens. 341 00:26:24.539 --> 00:26:26.640 Why does this look like a botanical garden here? 342 00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:27.539 They know it's a problem. 343 00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:28.740 And they've lampshaded it? 344 00:26:28.859 --> 00:26:32.940 But it goes back to that old problem that Ed Thomas just didn't build sets. 345 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:34.500 He didn't build enough sets. 346 00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:39.420 This clearly needed to be something that was bespoke and instead they've they've just gone with whatever was to hand. 347 00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:46.200 Yeah, I mean, the script wants it to be a newly excavated colony. 348 00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:51.779 And instead, it's old buildings with like chandeliers and stuff like that. 349 00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:56.759 And, you know, down staircases with fading wallpaper and things of green gels everywhere. 350 00:26:56.819 --> 00:26:59.039 So the wallpapers faded in 7 days. 351 00:26:59.099 --> 00:27:00.660 They need to get a new contractor. 352 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:11.519 It's ridiculous It needs to look like warriors of the deep, quite frankly, brightly lit and very stark and futury. 353 00:27:11.579 --> 00:27:15.059 Okay, I just say the Hatha, not a 1000000 miles away from those solurians. 354 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:19.319 But I had forgotten that it was set in an old theatre. 355 00:27:19.380 --> 00:27:21.599 Like, and I wrote in my notes, oh, it looks like an old theatre. 356 00:27:21.660 --> 00:27:23.880 And of course, then it is an old theatre. 357 00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:28.680 And so, yeah, so Jenny at the end when she's sort of lying on that plinth is actually just put on a stage. 358 00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:30.599 And it looks bizarre. 359 00:27:30.660 --> 00:27:32.700 Yeah, it's like, why do that? 360 00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:35.940 You know, yeah, you're doing a service for her. 361 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:41.220 It's like, but the thing is, this is also, this is also your basis where people have been living. 362 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:45.960 It's an allegorical story, but it's not allegorical enough. 363 00:27:46.019 --> 00:27:47.339 I think you said earlier, Peter. 364 00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:50.460 It's a bit silly, but it's not actually silly enough. 365 00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:54.900 There's something to be said, like, if we look back at season 24. 366 00:27:55.200 --> 00:28:02.640 It's kind of like some people are taking it seriously and some people are not taking it seriously and that's where the disconnect happens. 367 00:28:02.940 --> 00:28:06.299 Here, there's no real excuse for that. 368 00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:07.140 No. 369 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:10.559 I mean, this is the era of tone meetings. 370 00:28:10.619 --> 00:28:11.160 Yeah. 371 00:28:23.220 --> 00:28:26.339 You see, Brendan, you talk about season 24 and Paradise Towers in particular. 372 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:38.220 I think that's quite instructive in that Paradise Towers clearly didn't have a tone meeting or a director who was keeping everyone on the same page, but what it did have was a recognisable world because they built that world in the studio. 373 00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:41.039 Paradise Towers and the sets look amazing. 374 00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:45.839 It would have looked really bad if they'd just gone to some backstreets and dressed them up and sure. 375 00:28:45.900 --> 00:28:48.240 Whereas, that's what this episode lacks. 376 00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:51.180 If they built some sets and given it a sense of place. 377 00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:53.940 None of these locations look like they're tied together. 378 00:28:54.000 --> 00:29:01.619 They go from an old theatre out to a quarry, to some staircases to, I don't know, the inside of a paper mill or whatever, and they end up in the botanical gardens. 379 00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:03.180 It's just bizarre. 380 00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:08.339 The bloody paper mill again. how many times do we have to see this place? 381 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:20.099 I also think, too, that there is a big problem at the end with the visuals and something that had never occurred to me before, that we actually go out onto the surface of the planet. 382 00:29:20.099 --> 00:29:32.519 And we see quite a fantastic shot where Peck and Martha see the sort of big ship thing from the outside and you've got the moons and you've got this desolate planet. 383 00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:48.720 And then at the very end, they do the terraforming thing, and the terraforming thing happens at the same time as kind of peace breaks out, and everyone's in dialogue, saying how beautiful the big swirly thing in that sort of set is. 384 00:29:48.779 --> 00:29:52.200 And that's the thing actually, that seems to have people make peace. 385 00:29:52.259 --> 00:29:55.500 They see a swirly cloud and lay down their gums rather than seeing the effects of it. 386 00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:56.759 But that's it. 387 00:29:56.819 --> 00:29:58.079 That's what you don't see. 388 00:29:58.140 --> 00:30:07.079 You don't see that world. turned into a beautiful paradise, and you absolutely have to see that for that to work. 389 00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:13.019 And all we get is a swirly thing and we get some light coming in through the windows of the theatre. 390 00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:17.880 And what we don't see is a new world created once these people are at peace. 391 00:30:17.940 --> 00:30:25.500 You know, it's bizarre and clearly they just didn't have the money for the sort of effect shot, but that effect shot is so important. 392 00:30:25.619 --> 00:30:42.359 It's, if the story is going to be about anything, it's got to be about that, they're fighting to achieve something and it turns out what they get isn't a weapon, but a way of recreating the world, creating a beautiful, peaceful world and we just never see it. 393 00:30:42.420 --> 00:30:45.539 So rather than word peril, it's word safety. 394 00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:46.859 Yeah, that's it. 395 00:30:46.980 --> 00:30:48.839 Word victory. 396 00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:55.559 See, that's a big problem with the ending and you build up to this, and you want the episode to be about something. 397 00:30:55.619 --> 00:31:14.519 And that just turns into that horrible collection of cliches where the doctor stops people who should just be shooting him because he's hoisting aloft their prized artefact, and then he smashes it and still no one does anything, and then they all lay down their weapons just because, and then someone decides shoot the doctor while someone else throws themselves in front of him going, no. 398 00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:16.319 Yeah, I was getting awful. 399 00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:22.079 I was getting some pretty serious Jackie Hill vibes from Megloss. 400 00:31:22.140 --> 00:31:23.700 Yes, because they make survibes. 401 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:27.359 And do you know when Martha gets kidnapped at the startly episode? 402 00:31:27.420 --> 00:31:30.359 It's just like when Barbara gets kidnapped at the start of a crusade? 403 00:31:30.420 --> 00:31:33.599 And that is the only connection between those 2 episodes? 404 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:43.799 I don't know, presumably, you know, with all this single parent genetic stuff going on, there's there's going to be some interbreeding. 405 00:31:43.859 --> 00:31:46.019 Like Richard and Joanna. 406 00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:46.559 Anyway. 407 00:31:46.619 --> 00:31:49.799 I could say, wouldn't it have been great if Donna was cloned? 408 00:31:49.859 --> 00:31:51.839 Can you imagine the Donna's daughter? 409 00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:55.079 That would have ended the war quick, smart. 410 00:31:55.200 --> 00:32:02.039 I think I saw a few of them at Gallifrey this week. joined forces against their common enemy, Nerris. 411 00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:06.119 By the way, yeah, they're a schizophrenian. 412 00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:07.319 She's a lesbian. 413 00:32:07.380 --> 00:32:08.220 Is she a lesbian? 414 00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:13.019 Well, I don't know, but she's either a lesbian or a single mum who? 415 00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:16.859 has used a turkey-based to produce her own offspring. 416 00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:18.240 So there you go. 417 00:32:18.299 --> 00:32:18.900 Neres. 418 00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:19.500 Yeah. 419 00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:24.839 The funny thing is, Doctor Who, the Complete History, refers to that as Neres fathering twins with a turkey-based. 420 00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:28.079 And I'm like, I'm not sure, that's the right verb. 421 00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:31.799 Maybe she paid a little visit to Morocco, like Patsy. 422 00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:53.519 It might be the case that the names of the clones come from their progenitor, because the forenamed soldiers we get aside from Jenny R, Cobb, Klein, Carter, and Cash. 423 00:32:54.299 --> 00:32:56.819 Maybe they're the sea generation. 424 00:32:56.819 --> 00:32:59.460 Like each generation, you know, has a different letter. 425 00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:01.259 That's why he doesn't like Jenny. 426 00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:02.039 She's jumped ahead. 427 00:33:02.099 --> 00:33:02.759 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 428 00:33:03.299 --> 00:33:11.640 We really haven't spent all that much time talking about Georgia Moffat, and she is the eponymous character in this episode. 429 00:33:12.059 --> 00:33:14.160 How do you think she does? 430 00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:17.099 I love her. 431 00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:25.259 I think she's got so much energy and and pizzazz and that backflip sequence through the lasers. 432 00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:27.539 It's just the most hilarious thing. 433 00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:30.900 Like, you know, compare that to Richard Herndl and Tegan. 434 00:33:31.619 --> 00:33:35.160 The frigging floor in the 5 doctors. 435 00:33:35.220 --> 00:33:40.019 Shuffle any old wear and this is like, you know, it's out of the field. 436 00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:42.359 It is as easy as pie. 437 00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:42.900 I just love it. 438 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:48.299 It's like when Lady Christina comes down from the ceiling like Mission Impossible. next year. 439 00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:52.859 It's a great homage to an action movie. 440 00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:54.119 I love I love her. 441 00:33:54.180 --> 00:34:00.119 I actually really like the reaction to where Donna kind of looks at the doctor and goes, oh, you know, like I'd love to see you doing that. 442 00:34:00.180 --> 00:34:02.039 You know, this is a time lord thing. 443 00:34:02.099 --> 00:34:03.059 He said off you go. 444 00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:06.839 And she does actually listen to him. 445 00:34:06.900 --> 00:34:12.179 You know, like she does kind of earn her place in the TARDIS because she starts off as a soldier. 446 00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:18.840 She's there ready to shoot them with those terrible guns that have flames coming out the end for no reason, whether they're shooting or not. 447 00:34:18.900 --> 00:34:24.599 And then she decides, no, I'll pull a trick, you know, and escape in a sort of clever way. 448 00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:25.380 Yeah. 449 00:34:25.380 --> 00:34:30.900 Production information for why the guns like flash with that gas flame. 450 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:34.079 It was to save on buying blanks. 451 00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:36.719 They're like, this is how we can economise. 452 00:34:36.780 --> 00:34:38.519 We can have a gas cylinder on each gun. 453 00:34:38.579 --> 00:34:39.840 It makes it look slightly futuristic. 454 00:34:39.900 --> 00:34:42.059 We don't need to do a laser and we don't need to do blanks. 455 00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:47.820 The backflip sequence was inspired by Britney Spears' toxic music video. 456 00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:48.900 Of course it was. 457 00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:52.260 That's how Britney Spears. 458 00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:56.699 But, you know, that in itself, as you say, Todd, was inspired by action movies. 459 00:34:56.760 --> 00:35:01.079 And while you may think, oh, well, you know, that's definitely a gymnast doing that. 460 00:35:01.139 --> 00:35:05.820 The final shot where Georgia Moffatt sort of flips back into screen. 461 00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:09.360 Georgia Moffatt does do that last cartwheel and backflip. 462 00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:13.619 You know, so she's, she gets it done. 463 00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:21.840 Sort of, they had a gymnast and a choreographer on set, and before the shot, the gymnast sort of said, well, I can do this, I can do this, I can do this, I can do this. 464 00:35:21.900 --> 00:35:23.579 And George Moff was like, well, I can do that. 465 00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:26.460 Well, work that is... 466 00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:36.059 You see, having her played the doctor's daughter, she's clearly not the 10th doctor's daughter. 467 00:35:36.119 --> 00:35:37.619 No, she's the 5th doctor. 468 00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:39.659 Yeah, I mean, that's an icky thought given real life. 469 00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:46.139 But, you know, I would have loved an in universe explanation for why she looks like the 5th doctor. 470 00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:47.699 It would have been utterly ludicrous. 471 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:49.139 Really quite funny. 472 00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:52.019 Like, tenant removing his hand. 473 00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:55.440 So he's like, I think they only got genetic information from my 1st 5 incarnation. 474 00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:59.699 I would have given this episode a bit of a, you know, that sort of silly kick it needed. 475 00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:02.820 You aren't on board with her performance, Peter. 476 00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:04.559 I think it's fine. 477 00:36:04.619 --> 00:36:09.239 I think she's doing what Freema is doing and she's doing everything she can with material. 478 00:36:09.300 --> 00:36:12.119 I don't think the character is particularly well defined. 479 00:36:12.179 --> 00:36:15.539 She doesn't get a lot of doing doctor-ish things. 480 00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:18.480 We get a lot of Donna saying, see, she's like the doctor. 481 00:36:18.539 --> 00:36:19.380 I'd like to see more of that. 482 00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:26.099 I like to see her have a journey throughout the episode where she becomes less of a soldier and more of a thinker. 483 00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:27.719 I don't think we really do get that. 484 00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:35.340 I guess the closest thing is that scene that I just mentioned where she has the choice to shoot Cobb and decides to shoot the thing in the ceiling instead. 485 00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:41.280 Yeah, I mean, that is sort of one of the most obvious kind of iterations, though. like I would have liked to have seen more too. 486 00:36:41.340 --> 00:36:43.079 I think the character had a lot of scope to be interesting. 487 00:36:43.139 --> 00:36:46.920 I think she's a fine actress, but like the rest of the episode, I don't think it gets there. 488 00:36:46.980 --> 00:36:50.159 Weren't they supposed to kill her off at the end and wasn't it Stephen Moffatt? 489 00:36:50.219 --> 00:36:52.619 said to Russell keep her alive. 490 00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:56.880 And I kind of feel a bit cheated that, well, great, keep her alive, but you know, bring her back. 491 00:36:56.940 --> 00:37:07.739 Well, I mean, I kind of, I'm never a big fan of bringing people back because I think it actually probably rarely works unless you've got a good 2nd idea for them. 492 00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:25.500 But I do like the scene at the end where she's in the shuttle and she says what she's going to do and she just lists the things that Donna said that the doctor does, you know, that he saves planets, he fights monsters and she just gives that dialogue back and says, that's what I'm off to do. 493 00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:33.480 So I like the idea that she's now in our imagination out there somewhere doing what the doctor does. 494 00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:38.099 And although we don't get to see her again, we do get to have that. 495 00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:39.480 And I think that is quite nice. 496 00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:40.739 I like that too. 497 00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:45.900 My heartaway sinks a little bit when someone says, oh, we'll recast her and bring her back or she's regenerated or whatever. 498 00:37:45.900 --> 00:37:47.639 And I just think, no, no, no. 499 00:37:47.699 --> 00:37:52.500 Let's not everything needs a big finish box set on it. 500 00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:54.780 Like not everything needs to be explored. 501 00:37:54.840 --> 00:38:00.900 And it's quite nice to have that little loose end because it's a hopeful and kind of optimistic loose end, I think. 502 00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:07.679 And I certainly think that killing her is just the most cliched and appalling thing imaginable. 503 00:38:07.739 --> 00:38:09.900 And she doesn't die saving anyone. 504 00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:11.699 She doesn't, do you know what I mean? 505 00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:14.400 Like it is just, oh, she needs to be dead. 506 00:38:14.460 --> 00:38:16.800 So we'll just get cob to shoot her. 507 00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:21.900 And like Cobb shoots her because he is a warrior who can't accept peace. 508 00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:24.239 So there is a proper point being made. 509 00:38:24.300 --> 00:38:26.760 But otherwise, like it's it's super random. 510 00:38:26.820 --> 00:38:29.880 Yeah, and Stephen Moffat's objection was exactly that. 511 00:38:29.940 --> 00:38:36.179 It's like killing her is the cliche, and it's there to reset the doctor's status quo. 512 00:38:36.179 --> 00:38:42.659 Because part of Stephen Greenhorn's brief for this script was based on an interview he gave about the Lazarus experiment. 513 00:38:42.659 --> 00:38:56.219 Because what he said in the interview was, this is my 1st time writing for Doctor Who, and he says, writing for Doctor Who is very different from writing for other drama, because in other drama, you want to give your central character an emotional journey, and you can't do that in Doctor Who because he has to stay the same. 514 00:38:56.280 --> 00:38:58.739 So you give the emotional journey to the companion. 515 00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:02.639 And Russell heard that and went, Actually, Stephen, that's a really good point. 516 00:39:02.699 --> 00:39:05.880 I want to give you a story where you give the doctor an emotional journey. 517 00:39:05.940 --> 00:39:12.119 Except that that emotional journey then ends at the end of the episode and we never speak of it again. 518 00:39:12.179 --> 00:39:12.840 Yeah. 519 00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:14.940 He's still right. 520 00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:16.559 Right, don't get me wrong. 521 00:39:16.619 --> 00:39:30.900 But I just want to praise David Tennant and Georgia Moffatt's performance in her death scene. pretty much because again, it's not tenants spitting in the master's face that we got last year. 522 00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:33.420 It's gentle and it's tender. 523 00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:37.139 We do have that really overacted. 524 00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:38.280 I'm the man who never would. 525 00:39:38.340 --> 00:39:40.860 It's not just the acting. 526 00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:43.619 That line of dialogue is absolute whippet. 527 00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:44.639 Do you know what I mean? 528 00:39:44.699 --> 00:39:45.480 It's terrible. 529 00:39:45.539 --> 00:39:48.119 As you always say, if the doctor picks up a gun? 530 00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:49.559 rewrite your script. 531 00:39:49.619 --> 00:39:57.900 But then wait, the thing I so love about that scene is after he's done all that big thing, he just comes down and sits next to Jenny's body and he doesn't say anything else. 532 00:39:58.260 --> 00:40:05.400 Yeah, it only, it's only a few seconds, but the speech is performative. 533 00:40:05.460 --> 00:40:13.380 It's him performing a speech and then he's like, now leave me the hell alone because everything is about her right now. 534 00:40:13.500 --> 00:40:19.559 And there's a sort of there's a grandiosity to the speech as well. 535 00:40:19.619 --> 00:40:27.420 It's like, I want you to base your society on how I behave right now when I pull the gun on the guy and then decide not to do it. 536 00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:41.340 And it kind of wrecks what's happened before, where they've all laid down their guns because, you know, the world has changed and become, you know, beautiful and blah, blah, blah, and they've discovered what they're all there for or whatever. 537 00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:50.760 I mean, it doesn't come off, but they have their own reason not to find their own reason to not be warriors and his tenet inserting himself into the middle of it. 538 00:40:50.820 --> 00:40:56.940 Yeah, and it highlights the passivity, I think, of those characters and that they follow whatever the script gives them. 539 00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:06.780 They say, oh, okay, well, let's, you know, stop fighting and, oh, that's a good point. you make doctor, you know, have the blah, blah, blah, blah. none of it is owned, none of it has any emotional weight to it. 540 00:41:07.019 --> 00:41:14.400 I also have a problem with the scene as well because there's no blood or anything like when she gets shot. 541 00:41:14.460 --> 00:41:25.380 And I know Russell didn't want to show anything like that, but I just have a problem that she sort of just clutches her chest and then you look back and there's never any indication she's ever been shot or the anything's gone through what she's wearing. 542 00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:27.119 And it just doesn't sell it for me. 543 00:41:27.179 --> 00:41:30.780 I just kind of go, that's if you're going to do that, you've got to direct it better than what it's direct. 544 00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:33.719 Todd wanted bits coming out like condo. 545 00:41:34.260 --> 00:41:35.820 Not at all. 546 00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:37.980 But a little hole in the t-shirt. 547 00:41:38.099 --> 00:41:38.639 Just something. 548 00:41:38.699 --> 00:41:41.519 And I just, and I just, it just, it's just rubbish. 549 00:41:41.579 --> 00:41:43.440 No, she looks like she's having a bit of a rest. 550 00:41:43.619 --> 00:41:47.639 Between scenes. waiting for a beauty treatment. 551 00:41:48.659 --> 00:41:59.099 You know, I was saying, like, I love doing these with you all, and often with Brendan, you actually make me love episodes more than what I initially thought. 552 00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:01.019 I think with this one, I'm liking it a little bit less. 553 00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:04.079 Does that mean that I've influenced? 554 00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:07.199 Yes, Peter, it's now a 6 to a seven. 555 00:42:08.219 --> 00:42:10.980 Look, I give this one a 6 as well. 556 00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:14.760 I think I think it's flawed, but I still enjoy watching it. 557 00:42:14.820 --> 00:42:20.639 You know, I get to that scene in the garden and I'm like, oh, it's almost the end of the episode. 558 00:42:20.699 --> 00:42:22.380 I didn't notice that time going by. 559 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:26.280 I'm not sitting here feeling like this is a slog like I do with Planet of the Oude. 560 00:42:26.340 --> 00:42:36.599 You know, I find that episode quite difficult to get through and it's just that I like the doctor actually doing stuff in the plot, but that's not for him. 561 00:42:37.619 --> 00:42:42.000 I also really respect Russell four, right? 562 00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:44.039 In series 3 and this was the case at the time. 563 00:42:44.099 --> 00:42:46.980 The Dalek 2 parter was heavily criticised. 564 00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:49.199 Lazarus experiment was heavily criticised. 565 00:42:49.260 --> 00:42:55.380 And that was a two-parter by Helen Rayner bringing back an old monster and a new monster with Stephen Greenhorn. 566 00:42:55.679 --> 00:43:01.920 Rather than Russell say, okay, well, I'll do the middle two-parter, and I'll get Stephen Moffatt to do the episode immediately after. 567 00:43:01.980 --> 00:43:04.619 He, like, actually, no, everyone out there. 568 00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:09.360 These are 2 very talented writers, and you're going to have the same for them again next year, and you will like it. 569 00:43:10.019 --> 00:43:11.820 I mean, too. 570 00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:15.360 I'm mostly, I mostly like the Santaran 2-parter. 571 00:43:15.420 --> 00:43:16.920 It's fun, it's a bit of fluff. 572 00:43:16.980 --> 00:43:18.480 I like Colonel Mace. 573 00:43:18.539 --> 00:43:20.519 I like evil Martha. 574 00:43:20.579 --> 00:43:24.539 It's got cribbons. yeah It's got Jackie. 575 00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:31.320 Yeah, and this is a perfectly enjoyable 45 minutes if you don't think too hard about the world. 576 00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:33.840 Like, Brendan, I agree with you. 577 00:43:33.900 --> 00:43:37.380 Like, I'm going to be quite, well, I'm not surprised. 578 00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:43.320 I mean, David Tennon is not my favourite. doctor, but this season is, I think, my favourite season of New Who. 579 00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:46.860 And in terms of shows dipping below six. 580 00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:57.119 There's only, well, one in that category, which is this one, and everything else is like way above, and the back half of this season is just like, you know, from strengths and strengths or strength, and I love the 1st 3 stories. 581 00:43:57.179 --> 00:44:03.719 So, yeah, I just, yeah, it's quite incredible that this is my favourite season of New Who? 582 00:44:03.780 --> 00:44:06.480 What is it with them having terrible military characters? 583 00:44:06.539 --> 00:44:08.699 First of all, Colonel Mace, then general cobblers. 584 00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:09.659 They're all. 585 00:44:09.780 --> 00:44:11.699 I will give you this, Brandon. 586 00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:13.260 I don't think this episode is too boring. 587 00:44:13.380 --> 00:44:14.820 And boring is the number one crime. 588 00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:15.960 Yeah, yeah, I agree. 589 00:44:16.019 --> 00:44:18.239 It's like Orphan 55 this year. 590 00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:23.099 Like, it's my least favourite episode of this series, current series. 591 00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:26.400 It's probably my 2nd least favourite of the Jodies. 592 00:44:26.460 --> 00:44:30.599 It's just above Battle of Ranscore of Colos because it's fun. 593 00:44:30.659 --> 00:44:31.619 Yeah. 594 00:44:31.619 --> 00:44:33.539 And this episode is fun. 595 00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:39.179 It's like, you know, my worst David Tennon episode is Fear Her because it's not fun. 596 00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:40.380 It's boring. 597 00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:41.760 There long periods with nothing happening. 598 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:45.420 You can't say that about the doctor's daughter. 599 00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:46.800 There's something happening every second. 600 00:44:46.860 --> 00:44:48.119 Just doesn't make sense. 601 00:44:48.179 --> 00:44:49.739 I wish it had been more fun. 602 00:44:49.800 --> 00:44:59.579 Yeah, I, for me, I think there's so much kind of ineptitude and so many cliches in the script and it is just a little bit of a mess. 603 00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:03.300 I'm not bored, but maybe I'm irritated. 604 00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:34.320 Well, the listener, that's just about as much as we can take this week. 605 00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:39.059 We'll be back next week to watch a vest perform drown in the unicorn and the wasp. 606 00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:55.380 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at Flight Through Entirety, on Facebook, at FTE Podcast, on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, and Jody IntoTera. 607 00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:57.659 Brendan, is there anything you'd like to plug? 608 00:45:57.719 --> 00:45:58.440 Yes. 609 00:45:58.500 --> 00:46:05.280 So, it's 15 years since Doctor Who came back on our screens and on the anniversary of each episode. 610 00:46:05.340 --> 00:46:11.400 I am reviewing the relevant episode on my YouTube channel. 611 00:46:11.460 --> 00:46:16.619 So I'm in the midst of the Christopher Eccleston series at the moment, just giving my thoughts. 612 00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:22.019 And also, if you want to on Twitter or in a comment on the YouTube video. 613 00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:25.380 Please leave me your comments about next week's episode. 614 00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:27.179 As we're recording this ahead of time. 615 00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:36.059 I'm not quite sure where I'm up to, but just check out the channel and I will be reading some of them out in each review and kind of responding to them as well. 616 00:46:36.119 --> 00:46:40.139 So do please join me for that over on my YouTube channel, Brandy Bongos. 617 00:46:40.199 --> 00:46:40.440 Thank you. 618 00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:41.099 Brilliant. 619 00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:42.659 We'll have links to that in the show notes. 620 00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:46.440 Until next time, may you never experience dad shock. 621 00:46:46.500 --> 00:46:47.820 It's easy to avoid. 622 00:46:47.880 --> 00:46:49.920 Just ask any of us here on the podcast. 623 00:46:49.980 --> 00:46:52.320 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 624 00:46:52.380 --> 00:46:53.159 Good night. 625 00:46:53.219 --> 00:46:54.000 See you soon. 626 00:46:54.059 --> 00:46:54.719 Good night. 627 00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:03.420 That was Flight for Entirety, starring Todd Bilby, Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffith, and Brendan Jones. 628 00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:07.139 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane Orberg. 629 00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:13.559 This episode about his man pain was recorded on the 22nd of February 2020 and released on the 19th of April. 630 00:47:15.179 --> 00:47:29.699 Stay tuned, of course, for the inevitable Big Finish Jenny box set, comprising 6 story, starring Georgia Tennant, phoning it in as Jenny, with Michelle Collins as the War Briggs, and Ryan Sampson as loveable hat sidekick Glug. 631 00:47:31.380 --> 00:47:35.159 Hit the nail on the head in that the problem is with the design department. 632 00:47:35.219 --> 00:47:47.340 I think all the actors are pulling in the same direction, as opposed to season 24, where, you know, each story, there's someone who is not performing the same as everyone else, like Richard Briars. 633 00:47:47.460 --> 00:47:52.980 But even Cobb, who it's not a very interesting performance. 634 00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:54.179 Wait a sec. 635 00:47:57.239 --> 00:47:58.980 General cobblers. 636 00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:04.139 I'll see your woman die. a terrible thing. 637 00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:06.300 Nathan, that's no way to speak to Todd. 638 00:48:10.860 --> 00:48:13.139 I think I'm going to cry. 639 00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:17.039 What's the stupid name of this planet? 640 00:48:17.099 --> 00:48:19.380 Oh, it's miscellane. 641 00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:20.820 Vaseline. 642 00:48:20.820 --> 00:48:22.320 Vaseline. 643 00:48:26.340 --> 00:48:29.880 It's named after the wife of the emperor. 644 00:48:29.940 --> 00:48:31.139 Can I? 645 00:48:31.139 --> 00:48:31.800 Oh, Messalina. 646 00:48:31.860 --> 00:48:33.300 Is it Messalina? 647 00:48:33.300 --> 00:48:34.139 or is it Messalina? 648 00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:34.500 Yeah. 649 00:48:34.619 --> 00:48:37.320 Yeah, look, I finished that point about actors. 650 00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:39.900 I'll see your woman dies. 651 00:48:40.019 --> 00:48:41.699 We're not together. 652 00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:44.639 It's one of those ongoing... 653 00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:45.239 Yeah, yeah. 654 00:48:45.300 --> 00:48:47.940 You see, Brendan, I think that's really... 655 00:48:47.940 --> 00:48:48.719 Sorry, I'll start that again. 656 00:48:48.780 --> 00:48:51.420 You see, Brendan, that's really interesting because... 657 00:48:52.619 --> 00:48:55.800 We may as well just put a report in the middle of Pitt Street. 658 00:48:55.860 --> 00:48:58.619 I felt like that was a commentary on what I was going to say. 659 00:48:58.679 --> 00:49:00.719 I snoop a mouth and clue. 660 00:49:01.619 --> 00:49:04.365 You see, Brendan, you talk about season 24.