WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:40:17 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:42.359 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast. 2 00:00:42.420 --> 00:00:44.579 Brendan, stop it. 3 00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:45.719 How are you doing that? 4 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:48.600 German expressionism? 5 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:50.759 The massacre. 6 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:53.939 But we're getting ahead of ourselves. 7 00:00:54.539 --> 00:00:57.780 I give this one a solid seven. 8 00:00:57.840 --> 00:00:58.740 0.4. 9 00:00:59.340 --> 00:01:01.979 That was like their entirety. 10 00:01:02.100 --> 00:01:03.659 Bang. 11 00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:07.140 Barry, Jenny Ladd, Silla Black Tardis. 12 00:01:07.980 --> 00:01:11.879 Shamble, bobble, dibble, dibble. 13 00:01:12.420 --> 00:01:15.239 Oh, Nathan, you're the funny one. 14 00:01:15.299 --> 00:01:16.019 Yes, I am. 15 00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:16.500 Thank you. 16 00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:17.400 No, forget this. 17 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:17.879 I out. 18 00:01:17.939 --> 00:01:18.540 No, done. 19 00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:22.739 You had to write that, didn't you? 20 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:25.260 I'm Nathan. 21 00:01:25.319 --> 00:01:26.879 I'm James I'm Brendan. 22 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:27.659 I'm Josh. 23 00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:38.579 Well, Catherine Tate's got the week off and the sunlight here is poisonous, so we've decided to take a tour on a big space truck with a bunch of daily mail readers across a diamond planet called Midnight. 24 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:40.560 What could possibly go wrong? 25 00:01:40.620 --> 00:01:42.060 Do it again? 26 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:44.640 Do we do it again with love? 27 00:01:44.700 --> 00:01:45.780 Do we do it again? 28 00:01:45.900 --> 00:01:48.359 Do it, do it again with love? 29 00:01:48.420 --> 00:01:53.280 Hold him, holding, holding fast Never mind if it doesn't last Do it, do it again. 30 00:01:53.340 --> 00:01:56.340 Do it, do it again with love. 31 00:01:56.340 --> 00:01:59.640 Josh, you haven't been here for our discussion of series four. 32 00:01:59.700 --> 00:02:02.040 What's your feeling about it generally? 33 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:05.459 Series 4 is my secret favourite. 34 00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:11.939 I think it's when everything really goes right and Russell's hitting his stride. 35 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:15.300 But yeah, it's definitely one of my favourites. 36 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:19.439 When I think about all my favourite new series episodes, they're usually in series 4. 37 00:02:19.740 --> 00:02:22.259 And how about Midnight itself? 38 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:23.039 How do you feel about that? 39 00:02:23.099 --> 00:02:35.699 Midnight is my 2nd favourite after turn left, which chronologically hasn't happened, yeah, that's next week, but yeah, basically, Doctor Who has no money, but they managed to make it work. 40 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:38.280 That's kind of what this episode is. 41 00:02:38.340 --> 00:02:45.180 It feels like, oh, we've run out of money for the budget for the season, so we may as well just put it all, put nothing into this episode and see what works. 42 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:47.340 It's the opposite of time flight. 43 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:48.360 Do you know what I mean? 44 00:02:48.419 --> 00:02:50.520 Like time flight. have no money and it's a mess. 45 00:02:50.580 --> 00:02:57.000 Whereas this one, they have no money for it, but they took out as an advantage, if that makes sense. 46 00:02:57.060 --> 00:03:05.639 It's one of those things about having Russell as a showrunner because he's so incredibly good at making television and he knows what works. 47 00:03:05.699 --> 00:03:12.479 And so what he's decided to do here is basically a play on one set. 48 00:03:12.539 --> 00:03:16.680 And he relies on the actors to do all the special effects. 49 00:03:16.740 --> 00:03:17.939 I mean, it really is. 50 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:25.860 It's an episode maybe more than, you know, most Doctor Who episodes that gets what you can do in 42 minutes. 51 00:03:25.979 --> 00:03:29.039 It's really nearly perfect, I think. 52 00:03:29.099 --> 00:03:31.199 Oh, I just had to agree. 53 00:03:31.259 --> 00:03:35.219 I think this is one of my favourite Doctor Who stories of all time. 54 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:36.419 Yes, absolutely. 55 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:37.199 It was funny. 56 00:03:37.259 --> 00:03:40.259 Before I came down here, Rod said to me, what episode are you doing? 57 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:41.939 And I said midnight. 58 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:43.379 He said, oh, that's so good. 59 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:44.699 It's really annoying. 60 00:03:44.819 --> 00:03:49.680 But he's like, I can see it's good, but I never want to watch it again. 61 00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:53.039 Oh, it's so anxiety provoking, isn't it? 62 00:03:53.099 --> 00:03:57.479 Yeah, I just spent, I rewatched it last night in preparation podcast for once. 63 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:09.900 And, oh my god, I was just sitting on the edge of my seat going, even though I watched it a 1000000 times before, I just, I couldn't turn away from the screen. 64 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:12.060 I was trying to write notes today. 65 00:04:12.180 --> 00:04:13.800 I just couldn't turn away. 66 00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:17.459 Yeah, I felt the same because I was trying to write notes as well. 67 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:20.399 And then every time I just got distracted by just the drama of it. 68 00:04:20.459 --> 00:04:24.300 It's just so well written and every moment you're kind of on the edge of your seat. 69 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:24.779 Yeah. 70 00:04:24.839 --> 00:04:28.079 Yeah, it reminds me so much of rope. 71 00:04:28.379 --> 00:04:34.920 The film by Hitchcock, because it's got that real-time element, but also the time is compressed. 72 00:04:34.980 --> 00:04:42.600 It's kind of like whenever the doctor gives a time call for how much longer they have left on the bus, not that much time has actually elapsed, but they're accelerating towards the ending. 73 00:04:42.660 --> 00:04:49.500 I think initially, it's an hour before they're going to be rescued, and then a few minutes later, it's 50 minutes. 74 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:53.160 But it is still like an incredibly short amount of time. 75 00:04:53.220 --> 00:05:00.000 It's not the usual Doctor Who thing where things go for a day or we sleep for a night or, you know, something takes a long while to happen. 76 00:05:00.060 --> 00:05:02.160 It is just a very, very few hours. 77 00:05:02.220 --> 00:05:05.879 And so it's got a sort of real dramatic unity to it. 78 00:05:06.300 --> 00:05:12.600 Um, scene nine, which is the bulk of the episode. ran for 44 pages. 79 00:05:12.660 --> 00:05:13.800 Wow. 80 00:05:13.860 --> 00:05:37.379 And so they, for recording, they split it up into 9A, 9B, et cetera, right through to 9K. And unusually for modern television, they actually had a full day's rehearsal, just the actors in a hall, old school style because Alice Trout and the director and Russell T. Davies went, because this is such an intimate setting, we actually want these actors to get to know each other a bit. 81 00:05:37.740 --> 00:05:44.759 That's the thing that hits you in this episode is that the characters have got to know each other. 82 00:05:44.819 --> 00:05:55.800 Before the midnight creature gets into the bus, you know, there's that kind of montage of them, you know, becoming friendly after the doctors like destroyed the entertainment system. 83 00:05:55.860 --> 00:05:56.879 They have to talk to each other. 84 00:05:56.939 --> 00:06:08.399 They bond and then it, when it starts to turn, it's just so shocking because you've got to know these characters in the last sort of 10, 15 minutes and, well, it's probably actually less than that. 85 00:06:08.699 --> 00:06:16.680 And, and when they start to turn on each other and then they turn on her and then they turn on the doctor, it is just gut wrenching. 86 00:06:16.740 --> 00:06:25.620 Do you think, though, I actually think that there's a good reason to believe that the characters are a problem even before things start to go wrong. 87 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:31.019 And let's talk about the characters because there's only a small number of them. 88 00:06:31.019 --> 00:06:32.639 And they're really well drawn. 89 00:06:32.699 --> 00:06:39.420 This is a Russell script and so he's able to really kind of create characters with just a few lines of dialogue. 90 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:45.000 You know, initially, I'm a little bit irritated by David Tennant destroying the horrible entertainment system. 91 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:55.379 Because, I mean, it is horrible and it's a joke, but it's a sort of boomerish, you know, everyone's got their heads stuck in their phones, you know, shouldn't we just talk to one another? 92 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:57.480 And, you know, no one wants to do that. 93 00:06:57.540 --> 00:07:10.199 You know, and the interesting thing is the doctor's faith in humanity is what makes him think that talking to one another is going to be the right thing to do. 94 00:07:10.259 --> 00:07:23.879 And it kind of looks like it's working, but we've already seen, you know, there's a little bit of sort of tension between Jethro and Mr. and Mrs. Kane, you know, about who's paying for it. 95 00:07:23.939 --> 00:07:25.740 Jethro doesn't want to sit next to them. 96 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:40.860 They're kind of disappointed when the entertainment system goes down. everyone is getting ready to spend the trip in their own world, you know, Professor Hobbs and DD are going to have earplugs in. 97 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:45.420 You know, they're all being given individual juice boxes and stuff like that. 98 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:49.860 The whole thing is set up for them to travel without interacting with one another. 99 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:54.720 And then in that bit where the doctor goes from person to person. 100 00:07:54.779 --> 00:07:58.500 You know, I think their flaws start to be revealed a bit. 101 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:09.839 The big floor that I think is sort of writ large at the beginning is where Professor Hobbs is just nattering away and DD says, earplugs, please. 102 00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:16.439 I really don't want to listen to him talk about the miners on Peladon. 103 00:08:16.500 --> 00:08:18.060 Thank you. 104 00:08:18.060 --> 00:08:18.420 Thank you. 105 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:21.060 When he was dressing in royal drag. 106 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:23.639 That's right. 107 00:08:23.699 --> 00:08:26.220 Of course, this is David Trouton. 108 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:27.779 Television's David Trouton. 109 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:29.459 I'm not even a real princess. 110 00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:30.899 Don't worry, I am dead. 111 00:08:32.460 --> 00:08:37.980 I was thinking, though, like, it's not just the human characters whose, you see their flaws. 112 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:41.639 You also see the doctor's egotism is his because absolutely. 113 00:08:41.700 --> 00:08:46.919 And I think that everyone, every single character you got to see the worst of them, I really like that part of it. 114 00:08:46.980 --> 00:08:48.360 Yeah, yeah. 115 00:08:48.419 --> 00:08:57.539 Even the kind of arrogance of him deciding to just sort of take over the bus make everyone talk to one another and then sort of, you know, go round from person to person. 116 00:08:57.659 --> 00:09:10.139 That scene where Biff and Val are telling that really, really terrible anecdote about the abstract pool and they're laughing uproariously at things that aren't funny and clearly Val has heard it 100s and 100s of times before. 117 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:12.059 Jethro's rolling his eyes. 118 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:17.220 Like it's so sort of fat Chino's dad jokey. 119 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:19.139 You know, it's it's appalling. 120 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:21.539 Like you're primed to kind of dislike those people. 121 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:27.539 And it turns out the reason that you dislike them is exactly, you know, the character that they end up showing. 122 00:09:27.779 --> 00:09:32.039 The thing is, that anecdote actually really makes me like them. 123 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:37.799 Because he, because he's not laughing at how silly the idea of an abstract pool is. 124 00:09:37.860 --> 00:09:40.440 He's laughing at himself that he actually thought the pool was real. 125 00:09:40.500 --> 00:09:44.580 Yeah, I just, I think the shamboni stuff's a bit racist, Brendan, actually. 126 00:09:44.639 --> 00:09:46.440 Yeah, I suppose. yeah, yeah. 127 00:09:46.500 --> 00:09:49.200 Yeah, with the lobes. 128 00:09:49.379 --> 00:09:55.019 Mind you, you know, we have we have just had tenant being incredibly racist to Banacafalata. 129 00:09:55.080 --> 00:09:56.159 Yeah, yeah, that's true. 130 00:09:56.220 --> 00:09:57.840 Banana coffee latte. 131 00:09:57.899 --> 00:09:58.320 Yes. 132 00:09:58.379 --> 00:09:59.820 Oh, God, now I'm doing it. 133 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:15.539 I was madly in love with Jethro when I watched it on 1st broadcast because, oh, how old I've been? 134 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:18.120 Maybe like 16, maybe 17? 135 00:10:18.179 --> 00:10:21.240 And I loved my 2008 emo boy. 136 00:10:21.299 --> 00:10:23.220 That was definitely my dream, man. 137 00:10:23.700 --> 00:10:26.279 He becomes huge, of course. 138 00:10:26.340 --> 00:10:29.519 He'll go on to be Merlin kind very, very soon after this. 139 00:10:29.580 --> 00:10:31.259 And he is really great. 140 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:37.679 And there's a sense too, in which the narrative sympathises with him a lot. 141 00:10:37.740 --> 00:10:39.240 Like the doctor looks to him. 142 00:10:39.299 --> 00:10:47.399 You know, there's a sense in which the doctor and his parents are fighting over him to see who they approve of. 143 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:53.100 And the doctor's genuinely disappointed when Jethro kind of loses his bottle and joins in with them. 144 00:10:53.220 --> 00:11:02.159 Yeah, it strikes me that the only people the doctor is really disappointed in are Jethro, of course, and DD. 145 00:11:02.220 --> 00:11:07.500 Yeah, he's disappointed that he can't win the children over because that's the thing. 146 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:12.059 You know things have gone south when the doctor can't appeal to children. 147 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:15.000 It seems to be, it seems to be what that is saying to me anyway. 148 00:11:15.059 --> 00:11:18.840 You know, he doesn't really expect to appeal to the adults. 149 00:11:18.899 --> 00:11:21.000 It is really belittling of them and whatnot. 150 00:11:21.059 --> 00:11:24.779 But he's never really belittling towards DD and Jethro. 151 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:26.639 Like even when he's saying, okay, Jethro, shut up. 152 00:11:26.700 --> 00:11:31.200 It's more, no, no, Jethro not helping rather than Jethro, you stupid idiot. 153 00:11:31.259 --> 00:11:31.620 Yeah. 154 00:11:31.620 --> 00:11:31.980 Yeah. 155 00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:44.159 So the one character that we haven't mentioned is Sky Sylvestri, who is played by Leslie Sharp, who Russell had worked with before because she plays Judith in the Second Coming. 156 00:11:44.220 --> 00:11:58.200 And so the 2nd coming, she's the kind of female lead in the 2nd coming, and the 2nd coming is, you know, the story of her kind of dealing with the arrival of the 2nd coming of Christ in the form of Christopher Eccleston. 157 00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:59.700 And she plays a massive role. 158 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:04.620 She's the kind of main character, the person who actually ends up being the one telling the story. 159 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:07.139 And she's clearly an incredible actor. 160 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:12.480 And so he's been waiting, I think, to give her something as amazing as this. 161 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:18.120 Sky's an outsider, sort of straight away, isn't she? 162 00:12:18.179 --> 00:12:19.379 She's a lesbian. 163 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:20.940 Well, yeah, so she's queer. 164 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:22.679 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 165 00:12:22.740 --> 00:12:30.600 So she's a lesbian, but she's also isolated, you know, and there's a kind of heterosexuality to the other 2 pairings of people. 166 00:12:30.659 --> 00:12:33.360 You know, you've got DD and Professor Hobbs. 167 00:12:33.419 --> 00:12:38.100 We don't think they're on together, but it is a man and a woman in a sort of subordinate position. 168 00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:43.500 And then you've got the middle class family on the other side. she's on her own. 169 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:48.059 And when the doctor talks to her, the others aren't kind of involved in that. 170 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:52.320 And she gets to explain that she is now on her own. 171 00:12:52.379 --> 00:12:55.860 Like her wife has left her and moved to a distant galaxy. 172 00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:58.320 I love that scene. 173 00:12:58.379 --> 00:12:59.159 Yeah. 174 00:12:59.220 --> 00:13:09.240 Yeah, because it's not, you know how, for a long time, queer characters in fiction are written either as comic relief or noble suffering AIDS victim. 175 00:13:09.299 --> 00:13:14.639 Not lesbian characters so much, but that's the only paradigm you could have. 176 00:13:14.700 --> 00:13:18.779 And even in the late 2000s, that's still quite a prevalent thing. 177 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:24.059 Look at most career representation, television apart from things written by Russell T. Davis. 178 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:34.860 And it's usually comic relief or somebody who's deeply sort of damaged by a horrible thing that's happened to them. 179 00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:39.539 It's kind of refreshing to have her just be a normal person whose marriage has broken down. 180 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:48.240 But I do think the reason that he makes her a lesbian isn't just for representation, it is also to kind of put her on the outside. 181 00:13:48.299 --> 00:13:49.740 Yeah, to other. 182 00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:50.519 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 183 00:13:50.580 --> 00:13:52.440 So when the other characters gang up on her. 184 00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:53.460 Do you know what I mean? 185 00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:55.139 It has an added dimension. 186 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:55.860 Yeah, exactly. 187 00:13:55.980 --> 00:13:56.580 Exactly. 188 00:13:56.700 --> 00:14:01.379 And plus I love that line about it being both beef and chicken. 189 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.379 That's so fantastic Bebop calf. 190 00:14:04.379 --> 00:14:07.080 Sorry. 191 00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:28.320 There's a lovely little bonding moment between them when he destroys the sound system because she looks over and she notices the Sonic screwdriver and notices everything switch off and then she just looks at him and smiles and gets back to her book and she's got like a proper dead tree book. 192 00:14:28.379 --> 00:14:29.100 Yeah. 193 00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:33.779 Whereas everyone else is gonna, you know, watch Betty Boop and things like that. 194 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:37.080 That's not believable, books are dead already now. 195 00:14:37.139 --> 00:14:39.539 This is 1000s of years in the past. 196 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:41.220 Dead media, like Blu-ray. 197 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:48.240 I'm literally looking at Nathan's Doctor Who, the collection Blu-ray box sets on the shelf. 198 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:52.139 Well, they're pretty except for the 3 Australian ones with the giant ratings advancement. 199 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:53.220 I haven't opened them. 200 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:54.600 No, I'm sure they're great. 201 00:14:54.659 --> 00:14:56.580 Your box is pristine. 202 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:00.659 And so your Blu-ray collections. 203 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:01.500 Sorry. 204 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:08.220 So when they turn on the doctor, Val says what, like an immigrant? 205 00:15:09.779 --> 00:15:14.580 You know, he says, oh, I'm just a traveller and she says, what, like an immigrant? 206 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:26.700 Let's, before we get on to what happens when the whole thing breaks down and the characters are at each other's throats, let's talk a little bit about the monster and the way that the monster is presented. 207 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:38.340 Like, I think that the monster is so smart because, like, your 1st rule of, like, you watch a lot of Doctor Who episodes and everyone laughs at the cheap monster, and this was where they're never going to show it. 208 00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:43.440 So there was, you cut out that believability, the unbelievable factor of it. 209 00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:49.019 Whereas, like, I feel like midnight's one of those episodes you could sit down with your family and you're not going to be embarrassed by it. 210 00:15:50.639 --> 00:16:00.059 It, I mean, because its ambitions kind of aren't, it doesn't sort of strive to wow you with the special effect sequences. 211 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:12.059 I think it does have some nice special effect sequences, which look a bit dated now, but basically what it's doing is, you know, music, acting, script actors, you know. 212 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:13.080 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 213 00:16:13.139 --> 00:16:17.340 Psychological suspense, thriller, audio play with visuals. 214 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:31.440 Yeah, and so the banging on the outside is genuinely properly terrifying, and it's made that, I think, because the rules of midnight have been established, you know, that it's not just that there's no air out there. 215 00:16:31.500 --> 00:16:33.539 It's that the sunlight is deadly. 216 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:35.759 And so nothing can possibly be outside. 217 00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:45.600 And so Professor Hobbs's role for the whole sort of 1st part of it is to reinforce those rules so that we know because it's a made-up world. 218 00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:46.919 You know, the rules could be anything. 219 00:16:46.980 --> 00:16:50.460 But because you've got a professor in a cardigan telling you what the rules are. 220 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:53.820 So when they're broken. 221 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:55.259 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. 222 00:16:55.379 --> 00:16:55.860 That's right. 223 00:16:55.919 --> 00:17:05.819 And he continues to believe that there's nothing outside, even once the monster rips the cabin off the bus, he's still protesting that this can't possibly be happening. 224 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:08.039 There can't possibly be anything outside. 225 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:10.500 Yeah, yeah. 226 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:16.440 I was watching this, thinking in sort of trout in terms, he's the intransigent base commander. 227 00:17:16.859 --> 00:17:20.339 He's the intransigent bus. 228 00:17:20.339 --> 00:17:24.779 Oh, I couldn't help myself. 229 00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:25.440 That was fair. 230 00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:27.779 That was worth the pain. 231 00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:37.920 But yeah, he's the he's like the guy in the wheel in space saying, I don't like mysteries, so nothing strange is happening, Gemma. 232 00:17:37.980 --> 00:17:39.359 You know? 233 00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:41.160 That that that's his role. 234 00:17:41.220 --> 00:17:46.619 And kind of DD is the voice of reason kind of saying, okay, it's impossible, but it is happening. 235 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:52.200 So let's actually talk about what's in front of us rather than just going, oh no, that can't possibly happen. 236 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:58.799 So there is that thing too, where, and I think this is Santa for who says this, that even... 237 00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:03.720 Take a drink, listener. that in a trout and kind of base under siege story. 238 00:18:03.779 --> 00:18:10.920 People's characters really consist in how competent they are and what they think of the external threat. 239 00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:26.339 And the reason that this is better than those base under siege stories is that the characters are more interesting and that we have something to say about, you know, kind of like about human nature. 240 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:30.720 This has a really, really ambitious message, I think, this story. 241 00:18:30.779 --> 00:18:35.759 And we will get to it when we talk about the way that they turn on each other a little bit later. 242 00:18:36.420 --> 00:18:39.059 It's a bit like Brexit, really. 243 00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:40.920 Everything's like Brexit. 244 00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:42.359 What don't I get a vote? 245 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:43.140 says Jethro. 246 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:44.579 A17. 247 00:18:45.779 --> 00:18:47.759 No, you don't. 248 00:18:47.819 --> 00:18:51.720 And that's why you're going to be in poverty. 249 00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:55.799 I mean, something I found just visually interesting. 250 00:18:55.859 --> 00:19:13.140 Now, obviously for production reasons, the Space Bus isn't full. you know, because we can't have that many characters, unless you're orphan 55, But it's kind of like this is, you know, this is one of the leisure planets, but there's no one else at the pool with Donna. 251 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:24.839 There's only what, three, five, six, 7 passengers aboard this space bus, I think, has seats for about 15, 16? 252 00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:25.380 Yeah. 253 00:19:25.380 --> 00:19:25.920 You know. 254 00:19:25.980 --> 00:19:35.160 So there's there's already the impression that this is even even for the fantastic far off future with 15 plate glass and X tonic sunlight. 255 00:19:35.220 --> 00:19:37.859 This is a slightly rundown holiday camp. 256 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:42.299 And I like that because that's a very British traditional thing as well, you know. 257 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:43.799 The macro terror. 258 00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:47.880 But yes, it's it's we're all happy here. 259 00:19:47.940 --> 00:19:49.740 Everything's fine here. 260 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:53.940 You know, we're just going to sit here and we're going to watch our cartoons or we're going to laze by the pool. 261 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:59.880 Nothing bad happens on this planet where, oh by the way, if a window breaks, you're going to be turned to dust in 6 seconds. 262 00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:02.400 The windows are 15 metres thick, though. 263 00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:06.359 Well, just get Peter Capaldi to punch it all over time. 264 00:20:08.819 --> 00:20:11.039 So what happens? 265 00:20:11.099 --> 00:20:12.900 We see a movement. 266 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:19.200 So the bus stops and we meet Claude and Driver Joe. Oh, he's very sweet. 267 00:20:19.259 --> 00:20:22.200 He is very sweet. did like him at the time. 268 00:20:22.259 --> 00:20:24.779 Joe's very pretty in his own way as well. 269 00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:26.460 Yeah, well, yeah, we all are. 270 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:28.500 But even you did. 271 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:32.759 And so we just see something move outside. 272 00:20:32.819 --> 00:20:34.019 It's heading towards the bus. 273 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:38.880 It seems to be going outside, sort of knocking on all of the kind of bus surfaces. 274 00:20:38.940 --> 00:20:40.440 It reminds me of. 275 00:20:40.500 --> 00:20:40.859 What? 276 00:20:40.980 --> 00:20:42.539 The twilight zone. 277 00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:45.480 Oh, um, a terror at 50,000 feet. 278 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:48.299 Like the thing kind of pulling on the outside of the bus. 279 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:50.519 And it is able to kind of rip the front off. 280 00:20:50.579 --> 00:20:55.079 So, and there's talk later that it's not, it doesn't have a body or something like that. 281 00:20:55.140 --> 00:20:57.960 Like, it's it's so brilliantly ill-defined. 282 00:20:58.019 --> 00:21:03.420 And it really just does what the story needs it to do. 283 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:09.480 So we talked about the Weeping Angels and I said, they do what they do so that the story blink works. 284 00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:22.319 Here, the monster has to be a mystery because it doesn't really work in any kind of sort of proper sense of, you know, writing a TARDIS WIKEA entry on its various abilities or something. 285 00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:26.460 But it is amazingly amazingly effective. 286 00:21:26.579 --> 00:21:29.160 Imagine the top trumps for that. 287 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:36.720 I mean, I just wanted the action figure pack of, you know, listen, creature, Midnight Monster, and crafeus. 288 00:21:37.500 --> 00:21:41.579 Wow, that would be cheap to produce. refuse this. 289 00:21:42.660 --> 00:21:46.619 The thing is like, what does it do when it's not doing the plot? 290 00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:49.140 Like what's its everyday life? 291 00:21:49.140 --> 00:21:54.059 It gets up, goes to the shops, you know, it's a member of the... 292 00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:55.680 Yeah, yeah. a member of the tennis club. 293 00:21:55.740 --> 00:21:56.640 That sort of thing. 294 00:21:56.700 --> 00:21:57.539 Like, that's exactly it. 295 00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:59.640 It doesn't exist outside the confines of the story. 296 00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:01.319 If the ball is your soul. 297 00:22:03.660 --> 00:22:08.940 In a way, that ill-definedness is what makes it so scary. 298 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:11.940 It's like Freddy Krueger. 299 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:19.920 There's no rules to Freddy Krueger, except the one rule they have to come up with to end each movie, but not in such a way that he is permanently destroyed. 300 00:22:20.099 --> 00:22:22.920 So it's kind of like at the end of this story. 301 00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:31.980 The doctor speculates that whatever it is is still out there because, of course, the sky's body may be destroyed when it goes outside. 302 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:34.259 But that doesn't mean the creature is destroyed. 303 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:38.339 And so the doctor's like, I'm going to get this whole thing taken off this planet. 304 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:40.079 But I do wonder with that ending. 305 00:22:40.140 --> 00:22:44.880 It's like, you couldn't convince 5 people in a bus that you knew what you were talking about. 306 00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:51.180 Do you really think you're going to basically convince the mayor from Jaws to take this place off? 307 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:54.240 You know, and we've seen it in Orphan 55. 308 00:22:54.480 --> 00:23:02.819 And I pay out on Orphan 55, but one concept, I think it gets brilliantly, is that this is an incredibly dangerous place, but that means it's cheap and you can run a holiday business here. 309 00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:06.299 So why would you move unless you were being devoured alive? 310 00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:06.960 Yeah. 311 00:23:07.019 --> 00:23:08.940 Both the remnants of humanity. 312 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:24.839 But in a sense, though, you know, one of the powers, one of the doctor's superpowers is his knowledge of aliens, you know, like he'll very frequently, even in a story where we're meeting someone for the 1st time, the doctor will know who they are. 313 00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:27.299 Here, that's taken away from him. 314 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:30.900 He has no idea, no more idea of what's going on than anyone else. 315 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:34.740 It's like you were saying earlier, Josh, with his arrogance. 316 00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:37.500 Usually that is tempered by the companion. 317 00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:44.039 There's that big bit where he just basically says, you lot need me, and you can just hear in the back of your head. 318 00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:47.759 Donna then stepping forward and saying, he's right, he saved my life so many times. 319 00:23:47.819 --> 00:23:48.900 Why don't you listen to him? 320 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:51.480 Or taking him down a peg and making him look like an idiot. 321 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:53.460 Yeah, yeah, it's like... 322 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:55.440 Okay, scaring people now time, Lord. 323 00:23:55.500 --> 00:24:02.339 But there's that moment where, like, he's like, oh, oh, what makes you, you know, like, you're the boss of all of us, basically? 324 00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:06.000 And he goes, because I'm clever and he goes, oh, I've gone too far. 325 00:24:06.059 --> 00:24:06.720 Yes. 326 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:09.180 And he's like, look on his face like, oh, I've lost them. 327 00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:14.700 I just, you know, they're going to turn, they've turned, turning on me and now I've just gone too far. 328 00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:15.480 Yeah. 329 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:19.920 Well, the problem is he hasn't proved that he's clever because he doesn't understand what's going on as well. 330 00:24:19.980 --> 00:24:21.599 He's as clueless as everyone else. 331 00:24:21.660 --> 00:24:25.980 So he can say he's clever and his egotism can do that, but you need to prove it. 332 00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:28.200 Yeah, and that whole outsider thing. 333 00:24:28.380 --> 00:24:35.039 He and Sky Sylvestri are the only 2 people on the bus without anyone to vouch for them. 334 00:24:35.099 --> 00:24:37.259 You know, the family can vouch for each other. 335 00:24:37.380 --> 00:24:54.240 The professor greatly underestimates DD, but in a way, that is like her validation to the others, because the Kane parents, you know, would obviously look down on DD, because of her age and defer to the professor because he's older and he's the expert. 336 00:24:54.299 --> 00:24:57.779 I think it's actually Biff who says, let's listen to the professor, he's the expert. 337 00:24:57.839 --> 00:24:59.220 Yeah. 338 00:24:59.220 --> 00:24:59.759 Yeah. 339 00:24:59.819 --> 00:25:02.519 So it's an appeal to authority rather than an appeal to reason. 340 00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:15.059 And in fact, the outsider status of the doctor and Sky are used against them because the canes accuse them of conspiring, you know. 341 00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:22.980 And so the thing about this scene where they start tearing one another apart and the doctor is kind of yelling at them. 342 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:30.960 The particular human evil here isn't just fear, but a particular type of reaction to fear. 343 00:25:31.259 --> 00:25:34.680 And I think it's embodied in the canes. 344 00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:36.299 I think they're the worst people on the bus. 345 00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:40.440 I mean, so you've got Mrs. Kane talking about immigrants. 346 00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:42.059 You've got Mr. Kane. 347 00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:51.000 You've got Biff, very sensitive to being called a coward and wanting to do violence in order to prove his masculinity, right? 348 00:25:51.059 --> 00:25:57.539 All of the stuff about, you know, when the doctor turns to them and says, could you murder someone? 349 00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:00.480 Could you push sky off the bus? 350 00:26:00.539 --> 00:26:07.559 He says, you know, he says that he could, because he sees that as a challenge to his masculinity. 351 00:26:07.619 --> 00:26:10.680 The doctor's saying, could you be so lacking in compassion? 352 00:26:10.740 --> 00:26:12.660 Could you bring yourself to murder someone? 353 00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:15.299 And he goes, yes, you know, I'm a man. 354 00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:16.140 I could do that. 355 00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:21.420 With like Jethro, because he was younger and he was a bit more sensitive. 356 00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:29.940 He was really reluctant to be violent, and everyone kind of convinced him to do so because he was like, well, this is what everyone, this is what society says you have to be masculine. 357 00:26:30.059 --> 00:26:32.160 So that's how I interpreted it as well. 358 00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:36.359 Yeah, no, he's definitely pressured into it. and they're his parents. 359 00:26:36.420 --> 00:26:37.619 You know, that's his dad. 360 00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:41.339 And they're definitely both pressuring him into behaving that way. 361 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:44.460 And the doctor's disappointment in him is because he's given into that. 362 00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:48.059 You know, like he kind of knows better or doesn't want to do that. 363 00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:50.279 He's better than that, as the doctor would say. 364 00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:53.759 But he gives in under the strain. 365 00:26:53.819 --> 00:27:04.079 And as you were saying earlier, Josh. got that sort of goth aesthetic, and this is the 1st time I've noticed he actually has his fingernails painted, which... 366 00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:05.099 Oh, an eyeliner and stuff. 367 00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:06.240 An eyeliner, yeah. 368 00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:15.900 And even more so in 2008, that marks him out as not a stereotypical aspect of masculinity. 369 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:23.819 And when Skye's behaviour changes throughout the possession process, he is the 1st to notice. 370 00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:32.279 He notices sky sitting at the end by herself, and then he notices that she is now synchronised. 371 00:27:32.339 --> 00:27:38.039 And then he notices that she has stopped repeating everyone else except the doctor. 372 00:27:38.099 --> 00:27:46.680 He is, you're right, Josh, entirely sensitive not only to others, but to the situation and incredibly perceptive. 373 00:27:46.740 --> 00:27:53.579 So in a way, DD kind of has the smarts and the knowledge, she knows about the engines, she knows about the ship. 374 00:27:53.640 --> 00:28:08.519 She knows about myths and legends, about goblins, whereas Jethro is the more sensitive empathic person. and feeling and and he's coded because he's coat of femme and goth. 375 00:28:08.579 --> 00:28:10.019 He's coded as other. 376 00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:20.579 Even if it's, you know, unlike Sky's character who's not coded as queer, he's not coded as straight. 377 00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:25.619 Well, I mean, he's very quickly put into sort of conflict with his father. 378 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:36.900 You know, he won't sit with them, but, you know, he's quite happy for them to pay for his ticket, Biff says, you know, like, like he's taking that sort of masculine provider role. 379 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:38.220 And what about Val? 380 00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:43.559 Like, maybe out of Biff, like, Biff is violent and, you know, trying to be masculine. 381 00:28:43.619 --> 00:28:46.980 Valley's really, really quite horrible, I think. 382 00:28:47.039 --> 00:29:00.420 And she's the one who actually says that she saw the thing pass from Sky to the doctor and she repeats that several times and bullies Jethro into admitting it as well. 383 00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:05.099 And at the end when the situation's resolved, she says that she knew all along. 384 00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:06.839 Yeah, she's a coward. 385 00:29:06.900 --> 00:29:07.799 Yeah, yeah. 386 00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:15.000 But she, she will see what she needs to see in order to perform the violence that she wants perform. 387 00:29:15.059 --> 00:29:15.599 Yeah, yeah. 388 00:29:15.660 --> 00:29:17.819 Val wants to see a manager basically. 389 00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:18.839 Yeah, yeah. 390 00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:20.460 She should have been called Karen. 391 00:29:20.519 --> 00:29:22.200 Valley's short for Karen. 392 00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:47.039 Let's talk about maybe the most impressive being in the episode and that is the interplay between David Tennant and Leslie Sharp. 393 00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:50.220 It is just stunning. 394 00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:57.900 And this episode won several BAFTAs, scriptwriting, but also for sound and editing. 395 00:29:58.019 --> 00:29:58.920 Right. 396 00:29:58.980 --> 00:30:01.859 And this time around was the 1st time I've watched it with headphones. 397 00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:12.960 And as the camera moves around the room, the sound mix between Leslie Dunlop and whoever she's copying changes, it's so amazingly good. 398 00:30:13.019 --> 00:30:14.339 It is so incredible. 399 00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:21.900 But the thing is sometimes the camera will be next to like, um, the hostess, but you'll get Sky's audio in full. 400 00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:23.759 Yes, I noticed that. deliberate. 401 00:30:23.819 --> 00:30:26.700 It's deliberately offsetting and off-putting. 402 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:31.680 One of Doctor Who's Great Triumphs is doing horror without doing blood and gore. 403 00:30:31.740 --> 00:30:32.339 Yeah. 404 00:30:32.339 --> 00:30:34.319 And this does that so well. 405 00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:39.720 Like I was watching this in a perfectly well lit room in the middle of the day and I had shivers up my spine. 406 00:30:40.259 --> 00:30:44.160 So before she starts saying the things at the same time as them. 407 00:30:44.220 --> 00:30:51.779 The thing that she's doing is the thing that your younger brother does to really irritate you, that kind of repeating thing. 408 00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:58.619 And it's clearly designed by Russell to be something that you can do in the playground. 409 00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:02.220 Do you all know how Russell pitched this episode to Phil Collinson? 410 00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:03.180 No. 411 00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:09.839 Well, Russell said, pretty much said to Phil Collinson, ask me a question, and Phil said, what did you have for lunch today? 412 00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:11.339 And Russell said, what did you have for lunch today? 413 00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:13.440 What are you doing? 414 00:31:13.500 --> 00:31:14.160 What are you doing? 415 00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:17.339 Oh, oh, thing is, right? 416 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:19.380 So Phil gets it within 3 statements. 417 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:24.720 Russell kept going for 10 minutes. before Phil finally said, okay, I get it. 418 00:31:24.779 --> 00:31:25.559 This is terrifying. 419 00:31:26.460 --> 00:31:32.099 You know it took him 3 days to write the script. 420 00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:33.359 Yeah, yeah. 421 00:31:33.420 --> 00:31:47.279 It's a replacement for a script by Tom McRae. called Century House, which was set on a reality TV, like haunted house show, like most haunted. 422 00:31:48.660 --> 00:31:55.019 And they had to drop it because it was too close to Unicorn the Wasp. 423 00:31:56.220 --> 00:32:00.059 And he had to write the script in 3 days. 424 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:03.000 You know what the other inspirations were though? 425 00:32:03.059 --> 00:32:04.799 But he was writing this. 426 00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:06.180 Jeep as Creepers 2. 427 00:32:06.779 --> 00:32:08.400 Oh yeah. 428 00:32:08.460 --> 00:32:10.680 Actually, have seen it is good. 429 00:32:10.740 --> 00:32:13.920 It's about a bus that gets stuck and is preyed upon by a monster. 430 00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:19.259 And the other inspiration which Nathan will love is Dumok. 431 00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:21.420 Oh, yes, I think I had heard that. 432 00:32:21.539 --> 00:32:24.720 The Star Trek the Next Generation episode. 433 00:32:24.779 --> 00:32:36.599 But literally only the radio times listing. which I don't have to hand is something along the lines of the Enterprise must make 1st contact with an alien race whose language is unintelligible. 434 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.420 And that was all Russell had to go on. 435 00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:40.559 He's like, I don't want to watch the episode. 436 00:32:40.619 --> 00:32:41.519 I don't want to be influenced. 437 00:32:41.579 --> 00:32:43.200 But this is where Russell takes that idea. 438 00:32:43.259 --> 00:32:44.220 Yeah, yeah. 439 00:32:44.220 --> 00:32:52.500 You know, Star Trek writers take it into the idea of, oh, you know, they team up and kill a monster and there's peaceful contact between these 2 racers. 440 00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:58.200 Russell's like, I am going to tear apart a family. and destroy an academic. 441 00:32:58.259 --> 00:33:00.119 And you're going to like it. 442 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:02.700 No, it's superb. great. 443 00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:04.079 That actually, you know what? 444 00:33:04.140 --> 00:33:11.519 I said earlier, this episode annoys Rod, when we watched Star Trek, the Next Generation on Blu-ray, he refused to watch Darbok. 445 00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:13.440 He's like, I will never watch that again. 446 00:33:13.500 --> 00:33:18.599 I said, you watch the one which is the really racist planet of the black people and you won't watch this? 447 00:33:18.660 --> 00:33:19.740 No, no honour. 448 00:33:19.859 --> 00:33:21.180 Code of honour. 449 00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:22.559 You said, I can laugh at code of honour. 450 00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:25.380 But yeah, it's like, well, I'm a language geek, so I'm watching it. 451 00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:26.460 You said you're watching it on your own. 452 00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:32.460 Yeah, but it's just fascinating how 2 different writers can take the same idea. 453 00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:54.480 And especially Russell, who has that incredible side of darkness that we've seen in queer as folk and Doctor Who and cucumber and years and years, and, you know, writes about the optimism of the future of humanity and Doctor Who, not unfettered optimism, but optimism nonetheless. and gives us a story where basically there is no optimism for humanity. 454 00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:19.260 Do you think, like, I wonder whether it's because he's writing it in 3 days, and so it's unfiltered Russell, because Russell, despite, we've said this before, but despite his big, giant, jolly performance where everything's marvellous and wonderful, like we saw him on all those Doctor Who confidentials, when you read the writer's tale, for instance, you can see that there's a real kind of bleak cynicism to his worldview. 455 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:21.900 Yeah, he's bleak as F. Yeah, yeah. 456 00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:22.500 Yeah, yeah. 457 00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:23.519 Bleekers folk. 458 00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:25.739 Oh, bleak as folk. 459 00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:27.179 Very well, non-rendant. 460 00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:30.719 That's how queer as folk podcast. 461 00:34:30.780 --> 00:34:31.679 Bleak as folk. 462 00:34:31.739 --> 00:34:33.300 Now it's so bleak as folk. 463 00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:39.239 I mean, honestly, listener, if you decide to do a queers folk podcast, totally take that time when we are never going to get to it. 464 00:34:39.300 --> 00:34:41.039 And then we'll sue you. 465 00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:45.179 So that's absolutely here. 466 00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:49.559 The human the human race is kind of horrible. 467 00:34:49.619 --> 00:34:51.119 We're xenophobic. 468 00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:53.820 We defer to authority. 469 00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:59.039 There's all sorts of, you know, horrible issues with sort of toxic performative masculinity. 470 00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:01.679 We're easily frightened. 471 00:35:01.739 --> 00:35:04.619 We lash out when we're frightened, we form coalitions. 472 00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:06.539 All of those things that these people do. 473 00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:08.400 It's basically 2016. 474 00:35:08.579 --> 00:35:10.260 But it's now. 475 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:11.820 I mean, but it was then then, you know. 476 00:35:11.820 --> 00:35:13.980 No, no, but it's... 477 00:35:13.980 --> 00:35:16.679 He is bleak, isn't he? 478 00:35:16.739 --> 00:35:21.539 And it's basically him going, humanity is a trash fire. 479 00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:22.980 Humanity is a trash fire. 480 00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:26.579 But there isn't even a moment of redemption. 481 00:35:26.639 --> 00:35:43.079 So one of my favourite scenes in the whole thing is where they've been through all of this and now they're stuck in the bus for the rest of the hour and they've got nothing to say to one another and Val does her little sort of self-justification thing and the doctor doesn't even dignify it with a response. 482 00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:46.139 Well, I was thinking about this story as well. 483 00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:53.940 Like, it could have been set in the 1800s on a train and it still would have been as relevant as it is in the far future because humanity is always the same. 484 00:35:53.940 --> 00:35:55.199 And I really love that. 485 00:35:55.260 --> 00:35:58.860 Yeah, well, I think I think that that's what it aspires to do. 486 00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:05.880 It does aspire to talk about humanity, not in a particular context, but generally what we like. 487 00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:24.659 It's very interesting then that the final scene where Dr. and Donna are talking, you know, if this was, say, a pertly story, you would expect at the end for the brigadier to say, oh, you know, well, the monster almost got your doctor and the doctor say, well, no, actually, brigadier, it was humanity that almost got me, you know. 488 00:36:25.139 --> 00:36:31.980 But they leave that hanging for the audience to think about rather than tell us what we should think of that situation. 489 00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:49.739 It's quite obvious what Russell wants to present to us, but it's just like the situation on the bus itself, it's messy and kind of left as, okay, I've put this thing in the room, in the middle of the room, this is a piece of art, you react to it how you like. 490 00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:51.420 I'm not going to tell you what to think of this. 491 00:36:51.960 --> 00:37:04.679 And, you know, really, I think Chris Chibnall, or even Stephen Moffat would have had that last scene with the doctor and Donna and the doctor railing against humanity and how could, how could they have done this? 492 00:37:04.739 --> 00:37:06.780 That was a new creature, et cetera, et cetera. 493 00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:12.539 But instead, it's more personal and it's Donna expressing concern for what has happened to the doctor. 494 00:37:12.659 --> 00:37:27.960 I also think too that it riffs on a joke that's been done 3 times by this point in Doctor Who, including in the Infinite Quest, where the companion does an accent and the doctor goes, no, no, no, don't do that. 495 00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:33.300 I mean, we had that joke a few weeks ago also in Unicorn and the Wasp. 496 00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:38.820 And so here when Donna says Maltobaner, he does the no, no, no, don't do that. 497 00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:43.800 And it's because, we said before, he's not equipped with any knowledge. 498 00:37:43.860 --> 00:37:46.500 So that's one superpower out of the way. 499 00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:51.119 But the other thing is that his speech not only doesn't work, but gets taken away from him. 500 00:37:51.539 --> 00:37:53.400 Yeah, absolutely. 501 00:37:53.460 --> 00:37:56.039 Like, the doctor's main weapon is words. 502 00:37:56.099 --> 00:38:01.079 You know, all Doctor Who showrunners are like, the doctor doesn't pick up a gun, he doesn't fire a bazooka at people. 503 00:38:01.139 --> 00:38:02.340 He doesn't open a candidate, people. 504 00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:05.340 His weapon is words, and the words are taken from him. 505 00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:11.460 First of all, they're taken from him because they have no power over these people who've never met him before. 506 00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:15.059 And there's no human with him to justify him. 507 00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.219 And then they're taken quite literally. 508 00:38:17.820 --> 00:38:47.820 So I think maybe for a Doctor Who fan watching the show, one of the most terrifying scenes is that incredibly directed scenes, where Sky Silvestri is standing up, she's in the middle of the shot, her head is held high, and she's just playing those people, you know, terrifying them about the monster that she says in habits, David Tennant's body, and he's just dragged along, fully conscious, but unable to speak. 509 00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:49.619 Like that seems to be the thing. 510 00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:52.920 He's not controlled or possessed or anything by her. 511 00:38:52.980 --> 00:39:00.480 He's just being made to repeat all of that sort of daily male fear mongering that Sky Sylvestri is saying. 512 00:39:00.900 --> 00:39:03.000 She's paralysed him. 513 00:39:03.059 --> 00:39:05.099 He's paralysed because like that's the whole thing. 514 00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:05.760 He can't move. 515 00:39:05.820 --> 00:39:09.539 So he's powerless and has no voice either. 516 00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:13.679 So, like, he's completely robbed of any agency. 517 00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:18.599 And then, you know, like, you can believe that this character is about to die. 518 00:39:18.659 --> 00:39:20.699 Like, he's not. 519 00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:21.360 It's Doctor Who. 520 00:39:21.420 --> 00:39:22.320 Of course, he's not going to die. 521 00:39:22.380 --> 00:39:24.539 Unless it's a season finale, it's about for a generator. 522 00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:39.719 But you can totally believe if you had never watched a show before, if you had no idea about the main character, you could believe that this as a horror movie, that he is going to die and that's going to be the end of it. 523 00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:42.539 He's not the one who gets them out of it. 524 00:39:42.659 --> 00:39:51.780 No, no, it's, you know, it's kind of a throwback to Christopher Eccleston, where Christopher Eccleston would often inspire someone else to, who takes action. 525 00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:53.639 And so, does he even do that? 526 00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:57.119 Well, in a way, no, it's DD. 527 00:39:57.539 --> 00:40:06.599 Like it's DD's observed what's happening and the hostess, you know, is convinced by that. 528 00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:09.900 And so it is DeeDee who fixes the problem. 529 00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:12.360 You know, Driver Joe's already called for rescue. 530 00:40:12.420 --> 00:40:14.639 There's no doubt that they'll be rescued. 531 00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:20.280 So it's the hostess and Didi that actually solved the problem and the doctor doesn't do anything. 532 00:40:20.340 --> 00:40:31.380 And they're clearly going to survive, and the only danger really is that they'll start killing one another, and the doctor looks like he's going to be the next victim. 533 00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:34.199 Like, I feel like there's a lot to say. 534 00:40:34.260 --> 00:40:37.320 Like, even with the final line being like the hostess, what's her name? 535 00:40:37.380 --> 00:40:38.519 That says a lot. 536 00:40:38.579 --> 00:40:46.380 And it says a lot about like, the whole thing is about like bigotry in every single way, classes and racism, the whole thing. 537 00:40:46.380 --> 00:40:55.500 And I think with the hostess saving the day and no one knowing her name said everything about humanity in that single moment. 538 00:40:56.579 --> 00:41:02.519 Remember, too, that the canes are constantly telling her that her job is to fix this. 539 00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:09.360 So in the context of that fight, that's just them putting her down and pulling rank on her with a customer. 540 00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:11.460 But it turns out it is her job to fix it. 541 00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:14.639 But also, Sky says that to us well. 542 00:41:14.699 --> 00:41:15.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 543 00:41:15.900 --> 00:41:17.519 It's your job to fix this. 544 00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:20.519 So it's kind of poetic that at the end of the story. 545 00:41:20.579 --> 00:41:24.360 It's that character, the character that's being treated like a piece of crap. 546 00:41:24.420 --> 00:41:29.219 For the entire episode, belittled, ignored, talked down to. 547 00:41:29.340 --> 00:41:32.280 She's the one that saves the day. 548 00:41:32.340 --> 00:41:35.400 She actually does her job. 549 00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:37.679 By rising up and killing a customer. 550 00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:43.320 Don't we all just want to? 551 00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:45.000 We all worked in retail, haven't we? 552 00:41:46.800 --> 00:42:00.179 The extraordinary thing I find about that scene is I was just looking at the staging of it and when the creature overtakes the doctor, it then asks the professor to help me up. 553 00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:08.099 And, you know, at the time, of course, I thought, oh, that's just, you know, garnering sympathy, oh, look at me, I'm poor, I'm so helpless. 554 00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:10.619 You know, come and help me, please. 555 00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:14.579 But then I notice that when she gets into the middle of everyone. 556 00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:15.480 She hardly moves. 557 00:42:15.539 --> 00:42:16.320 She just talks. 558 00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:19.679 And I thought, 0 my God, she's gotten used to the speech. 559 00:42:19.739 --> 00:42:21.300 Now she's getting used to the body. 560 00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:22.320 Right. 561 00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:32.820 And her 1st independent movement is when the doctor's about to be thrown out, and she turns to face him and starts shouting, Malta Benet. 562 00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:36.119 And the great thing is, you then come to the doctor. 563 00:42:36.179 --> 00:42:39.420 Malta, Ben, Alonze. 564 00:42:39.539 --> 00:42:42.360 And in fact, it's that. 565 00:42:42.420 --> 00:42:48.119 There's that wonderful thing where he's trying to be jolly to the hostess and she is ignoring him. 566 00:42:48.179 --> 00:42:51.059 Like she isn't interested in any of his French. 567 00:42:51.119 --> 00:43:07.380 So when he tells her what animals he means, you know, she's absolutely not interested, she says something sort of hilariously dismissive, but it's her knowledge that that's the sort of thing that he would say that makes it clear to her that Sky has stolen his voice. 568 00:43:07.380 --> 00:43:17.519 Because everyone, everyone knows in this, in this future of people who want to chuck each other outside of space buses to be burned to death in 6 seconds, nobody could possibly speak French. 569 00:43:17.579 --> 00:43:17.940 No. 570 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:22.380 Well, we know from Star Trek, the next generation that people, French people in the future speak English. 571 00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:24.420 Yeah, except to their dogs, apparently. 572 00:43:25.500 --> 00:43:29.639 Well, we all know the doctor wouldn't be in the same train with someone who's French. 573 00:43:29.699 --> 00:43:33.599 We all saw twice upon a time he hates French people, apparently, so... 574 00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:36.300 Why on? 575 00:43:36.300 --> 00:43:36.599 Yeah. 576 00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:40.800 Why on earth would you give that line to the doctor? 577 00:43:40.860 --> 00:43:46.019 When there is a British soldier from 1913 who probably thinks that standing right there? 578 00:43:46.139 --> 00:43:51.780 And not to mention the doctor's, the 1st doctor's favourite historical place is the French Revolution. 579 00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:52.619 Yes. 580 00:43:52.619 --> 00:43:55.559 But he didn't like their kitchen. 581 00:43:56.940 --> 00:43:59.159 He has to draw a line somewhere. 582 00:43:59.219 --> 00:44:00.840 Get me out of this place. 583 00:44:00.900 --> 00:44:01.739 It's full of restaurants. 584 00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:06.719 I don't think we're doing an episode on that because I don't think it ever happened. 585 00:44:08.039 --> 00:44:09.840 It didn't. 586 00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:10.260 No. 587 00:44:18.059 --> 00:44:25.380 We talked early about how the doctor turned all the technology off and forced everyone to talk, but I feel like David Tennant's doctor. 588 00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:33.239 The reason why the audience loved him so much was because that he would get along with anyone, despite who they were or anything. 589 00:44:33.300 --> 00:44:37.260 He would always start a conversation with everybody and he seemed like, oh, here's your bezy mate. 590 00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:42.599 Whereas, you know, someone like Peter Capoldi, who I love, a lot of people were like, oh, but he wouldn't even give me a hug. 591 00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:44.280 Why would I want to hang out with this guy? 592 00:44:44.340 --> 00:44:45.780 Do you know what I mean? 593 00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:47.340 Yeah, absolutely. 594 00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:54.000 I'm imagining now Peter Cabaldi shutting off that entertainment system and then when someone tries to start a conversation, no, I wanted silence. 595 00:44:54.059 --> 00:44:55.619 Thank you. 596 00:44:55.739 --> 00:44:57.239 But no, you're right. 597 00:44:57.300 --> 00:44:58.260 David Tennant. 598 00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:04.199 Yeah, he kind of does that for selfish reasons, but when he says, no, I want to talk to you all, genuinely, I'm not here with Donna. 599 00:45:04.260 --> 00:45:04.980 New people. 600 00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:05.519 Hi. 601 00:45:05.579 --> 00:45:10.619 Yeah Who do you think is his favourite on the bus, Josh? 602 00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:16.619 Jethro, because he's my favourite, and you can't go wrong with a goth boy. 603 00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:17.159 What can I say? 604 00:45:17.219 --> 00:45:20.760 He's so pretty. quite quite right to it. 605 00:45:20.820 --> 00:45:21.480 I mean, that's the thing. 606 00:45:21.539 --> 00:45:24.539 I usually go for bigger and junkier, but there is something about him. 607 00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:25.500 There is. 608 00:45:25.500 --> 00:45:27.599 There is something about he's just such a good actor. 609 00:45:29.219 --> 00:45:31.139 Yes, that must be it. 610 00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:32.280 Must be. 611 00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:35.760 He's actually a really good actor as well. 612 00:45:35.820 --> 00:45:42.300 You know, but especially that bit of, you know, the boss has broken down in the middle of nowhere. 613 00:45:43.739 --> 00:45:53.340 Oh, when he does sort of 666 and, you know, like he gets some sky to repeat it, like he's being sort of scary and gothy and stuff. 614 00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:54.300 Yeah, meta. 615 00:45:54.360 --> 00:46:04.619 I actually get the impression during that whole sequence where the doctor wants to chat to everyone on the bus, it's like he's auditioning for who his companion is going to be this week. 616 00:46:04.679 --> 00:46:17.280 So, you know, we've got DD who is brilliantly intelligent, but sort of a bit trodden on and can only express her intelligence when she's away from the professor. 617 00:46:17.340 --> 00:46:24.420 We've got Jethro, who is jokey and says inappropriate things like 666 but is also incredibly intelligent. 618 00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:30.840 And we've got Skye who has the traditional Doctor Who tragic backstory trademark, you know. 619 00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:32.760 But the 2 of them really hit it off. 620 00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:39.599 Like, I think they properly hit it off and we talked about the moment where, you know, she sees him disable the thing. 621 00:46:39.659 --> 00:46:42.119 I like that little scene. 622 00:46:42.179 --> 00:46:52.739 But it's also that, that, and that's, again, you know, she has been set up and coded as this is your companion figure for the week. 623 00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:58.079 And then, you know, she's the one that he hits it off with. 624 00:46:58.079 --> 00:46:59.699 Yes, she's one that he hits it off with. 625 00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:06.360 She is endangered and he rushes straight to help her. 626 00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:13.980 Yeah, and she she has a sympathetic backstory that makes you care about her. 627 00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:16.559 And then she's horribly murdered. 628 00:47:16.619 --> 00:47:20.820 Like by this, by this bizarre alien creature. 629 00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:22.559 And it's just horrible. 630 00:47:22.619 --> 00:47:24.119 It's so horrible. 631 00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:26.460 I love this story. 632 00:47:26.519 --> 00:47:28.380 It's so horrible. 633 00:47:56.099 --> 00:48:00.059 Well, there, listener, that's all we have time for this week. 634 00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:06.780 We'll be back next week in a terrifyingly familiar parallel universe to find out what happens when you don't turn left. 635 00:48:07.019 --> 00:48:22.920 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook, at FT podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger and Jody into Terra. 636 00:48:23.099 --> 00:48:25.139 Josh, where can people find you? 637 00:48:25.199 --> 00:48:31.679 Yeah, you can find me on YouTube just as Josh Snares for more Doctor Who, Oddity, boring stuff. 638 00:48:31.739 --> 00:48:34.679 It's absolutely not boring at all. 639 00:48:34.739 --> 00:48:36.659 It's really quite extraordinary. 640 00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:38.579 So make sure you check it out. 641 00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:40.679 It's definitely worth a look. 642 00:48:40.739 --> 00:48:46.619 Until next time, when you go to the market this week, why not sling the goblin men a few, Bob? 643 00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:50.699 Their fruits are syrupy and delicious and redolent with a erotic subtext. 644 00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:52.980 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 645 00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:53.940 Good night. 646 00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:54.599 Good night. 647 00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:55.380 Bye. 648 00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:04.199 That was flight for entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, James Selwood, and Josh Snares. 649 00:49:04.260 --> 00:49:09.780 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, strings performance by Jane Orberg, closing joke by Douglas Adams. 650 00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:16.260 This episode, your Besie mate, was recorded on the 13th of February 2020 and released on the 17th of May. 651 00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:27.300 Information about package holidays on midnight can be found in the leaflets, some sapphires and suffering on the most totally evil place in the galaxy. 652 00:49:31.260 --> 00:49:34.320 Val wants to see a manager basically. 653 00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:36.840 You should have been called Karen. 654 00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:42.420 Yes, that is short for Karen. cabal. 655 00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:44.219 No, that's a Blake 7 name. 656 00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:44.699 Never mind. 657 00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:46.019 Oh, Carven? 658 00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:46.739 Carbon? 659 00:49:46.739 --> 00:49:47.940 Carbon. 660 00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:48.960 Creed of the Cromen. 661 00:49:49.380 --> 00:49:51.480 Oh no, don't say that. 662 00:49:51.539 --> 00:49:53.760 We've had Conrad on the podcast. 663 00:49:53.820 --> 00:49:56.039 And he's delightful. gorgeous. 664 00:49:57.539 --> 00:49:59.519 This is all going in. 665 00:49:59.579 --> 00:50:01.199 It really isn't. 666 00:50:02.579 --> 00:50:14.760 Let's talk about maybe the most impressive thing in the episode, and that is the interplay between David Tennant and Leslie Sharp. 667 00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:19.019 You were you were about to say Dunlop, weren't you? 668 00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:23.400 I'll never tire of that. 669 00:50:25.739 --> 00:50:27.539 I'm sorry. 670 00:50:28.019 --> 00:50:30.960 When are we doing the happiness patrol podcast? 671 00:50:31.019 --> 00:50:32.820 We've done it like 12 times. 672 00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:35.880 Right after Casino Rale. 673 00:50:36.059 --> 00:50:39.179 No, it's it is just stunning.