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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:10:50

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast that 12 years later is still

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completely terrified of backpacks.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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I'm Brendan.

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Hello, I'm Joe. Well, this time it's David Tennant's week off

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which is good because it turns out that the doctor is dead, but

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there's no time for us to mourn as the world collapses into a

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horrifying fascist dystopia, much like the plot of this week's

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Doctor Who episode, turn left.

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So, Joe, this is us hearing you for the first time on the

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podcast.

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Do you want to tell us how you feel generally about how series 4

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has been going so far?

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Um, I love it.

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I, uh, those 1st 4 years of the new series are my favourite, um, to

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this date and I think turn left.

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What we're going to talk about sums up exactly why I love those

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1st 4 years.

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Um, I just think it's just the best solid run of Doctor Who

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there's ever been.

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Uh, Donner is amazing, obviously, um, following on from Amazing

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Rose and Erasing Amazing Martha.

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Uh, and yeah, um, it's, uh, you know, obviously midnight is

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astonishing.

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And you think nothing's going to get better than midnight, and

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then turn left comes along the following week, and you think, ah

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and anything, nothing's going to get better.

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And then you see the next time trainer at the end of turn left and

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you go, what did we do to deserve this amazing glorious piece of

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television?

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No, so I think it's just it's one of the most exciting periods in

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Doctor Who there's literally ever been.

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I think I would definitely agree with that.

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And for me, and I think I've said this before on the podcast, that

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this run of sort of 7 episodes from Unicorn and the Wasp through

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to Journey's End is maybe the strongest run that the show has ever

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done.

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It's really something.

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Yeah, no, yeah.

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I mean, it just, I think it feels like it's the culmination of all

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the world building Russell's done in torchwood and in the Sarah

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Jane adventures and of course in Doctor Who and We've never had

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that sense before and I don't think we ever really get it again of

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all this stuff happening in the same universe and all these

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amazingly detailed characters.

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I mean, I know they're all about return left.

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What Russell does so well in turn left is these characters like

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Rocco and even Donna's mates in the pub just feel like real people

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real three-dimensional people.

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Um, which he does so well with just such a short amount of screen

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time.

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And so then to actually see in the next time trainer, Gwen and

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Yanto and Sarah Jane and everything like that.

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Um, There were characters who said that even longer to develop.

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It's just so exciting and just seeing it all come together in one

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story, you know, coming up in one story, um, following on from

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this is just, yeah, it's so exciting.

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Mind you, opening's a bit racist, Brendan.

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Well, I think the opening scene on Shen Shen, which I believe in

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the script is described as the China planet, Shen Shen, right.

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I think it's a reference to Firefly.

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Ah, yes.

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Because Joss Whedon's thought with Firefly and Russell has gone on

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record as saying he's a big fan of Joss's work.

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Joss Windsor on Firefly is, you know, in the far future, the 2

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dominant cultures are the English speaking culture and the Chinese

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speaking culture and they kind of amalgamate and merge.

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Only there are no Asian people in Firefly to speak of.

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No, exactly.

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It's a bit like Talons of Wing Chiangan.

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Well, so we're already one up in that we actually have Asian

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actors.

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I mean, I was going to say, to me, it feels like going into, you

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know, I live in London and you go into Chinatown.

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Yeah. in London.

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You know, China Planet. not racist.

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That's where a lot of Chinese people live.

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You know, I know what you mean.

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At 1st when it came on, I was like, oh, is this something that

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even now only, what are we, 10 years on that now might be seen as

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racist?

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But to me, it's no different from walking into Chinatown in London

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you know?

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It's it looks like Chinatown in Soho, you know, it's it's very

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much that sort of vibe.

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Is it racist or is it cultural appropriation?

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Well, no, I don't think it's either of those.

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And I, look, I think that there probably is, you know, that the

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the sort of foreign, um, you know, fortune teller woman is like

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that's sort of slightly awkward and we'll get onto that later.

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But I remember at the time thinking we've had so many planets in

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Doctor Who that are just inhabited by kind of Europeans and, you

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know, that kind of thing that actually seeing another culture in

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Doctor Who makes a change.

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And I think that this is not the 1st time where Russell has kind

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of conceived of the doctor's travel as like tourism.

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So in the long game, for instance, he compares space travel or

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time travel to popping over to France and using the wrong verbs

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and things.

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And so those opening scenes of the doctor and Donna walking

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through a market really properly read like that, I think.

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Yeah, I mean, I think Russell really emphasised, and I think it

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was always, you know, I think in our heads, we always thought

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about it in the old series, but I think what Russell really

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emphasises is, Each week we see when they have a terrifying

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adventure, what we don't see is all the brilliant stuff, an

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exciting, fun places they visit in between each episode because

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that would be boring television.

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So, you know, nobody would stay with the doctor if you literally

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had 13 weeks of the trauma that they go through.

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What makes it worth it is A saving people, but B, in between all

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those horrible things.

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You get to have joy and get to, like you say, tourism.

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Um, and I think the opening scene of turn left really shows that.

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You've never seen Donna so relaxed than having such a great time.

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Um, you know, because she's on holiday.

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She's on this big holiday where occasionally, they do amazing

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brilliant things to save the universe.

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And I think there's a deliberate sort of visual similarity between

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this market and the marketplace in Pompeii, because the

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marketplace in Pompeii within 2 minutes. you know, they're in

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trouble.

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Whereas here we get a montage of them enjoying different things in

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the market and when Donna is lured into the fortune teller's room

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the doctor is obviously bartering about something.

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And I tried to lip read him this time and he's holding some sort

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of gourd and saying, this is clearly off.

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Then he starts laughing.

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So he's having a good time as well.

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We've got Chippo Chung.

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Yes, from Utopia.

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From Chan from Utopia, though.

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Well done, yeah.

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But originally, apparently, she was going to be cast as the

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character who became Rocco.

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She was going to be someone Donna met after the disaster, who was

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then put in the back of a truck and taken away because she wasn't

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British.

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Right.

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But she was cast as the fortune teller instead.

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And that may have informed, you know, the choice to make this the

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China planet Shen Shen.

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Yeah. did not know that.

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While we're talking backstory, though, this story kind of existed

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before we knew that Donna was coming back for series 4, at least

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in sort of some sense, apparently, that there was some idea when

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we were sort of throwing the idea of Penny around as the doctor's

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new companion, that there would be, you know, what would it have

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been like if she hadn't met the doctor?

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And then suddenly we get Catherine Tate.

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And it gives us an opportunity to do something really, really

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quite amazing, that wouldn't have otherwise been possible because

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now we get to see the doctor, um, the doctor dies at the end of

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series 2 at the end of his his 1st series in The Runaway Bride.

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And then we get to see him not there for this sort of long series

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of different sort of Doctor Who events.

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And I guess we've seen that.

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I guess we saw it in Love and Monsters as well, where we get to

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see Elton's sort of outside viewpoint of what's been happening to

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Earth.

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But here it's really, really amazing because those things are

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given kind of real teeth.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like, you've got sort of cute fat monsters and you've got some the

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Titanic going to crash into into Buckingham Palace and all of

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those things are fun, silly Doctor Who threats that are taken

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seriously within the kind of programs they appear in.

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But suddenly when they're actually allowed to follow through.

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Like it's extraordinary.

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Like, it's really quite something that you get a sort of version

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of years and years, only it's caused by, you know, a giant

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radioactive replica of the Titanic crashing into Buckingham

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balance.

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I think what really makes it work is, again, it's the characters

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um, is, you know, bringing back Morgenstone from Smith and Jones

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and things like that.

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It's seeing that combined with how we all react to when bad stuff

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happens.

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It doesn't affect us personally, we kind of get on their own

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lives.

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You know, the bit where the new support talks about Sarah Jane

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Smith dying and there's that gorgeous pitch of Liz Sladen. from

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actually from a few years ago, it's not a publicity photo.

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It's a gorgeous sort of photo where she's just in a pub or

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something.

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And that is literally the 1st line after we hear that is Sylvia

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saying something about a whole punch because you get on with your

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life.

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And I think that really shows how we fall into that.

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And I did got, I mean, it was amazing watching as an adult.

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Imagine watching as a kid, it must have been mind blowing to go

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Sarah Jane Smith just died and Donna's mom is talking about a hole

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punch.

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So it's Sarah Jane Smith, Sylvia, Donna.

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It's all these characters that Russell has developed over

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obviously Sarah was before, but he developed her, but it's all

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these characters we've seen in different settings and they're all

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coming together, but all, you know, rose coldly, coldly talking

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about Jack and Gwen and Yanto dying, and the kids on the moon, you

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know, it's just heartbreaking because it's saying to us, whenever

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A terrible thing happens on the other side of the world or on the

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moon, or, you know, down the road, whenever there's a car accident

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you know, when even right at the end when Donna and Sylvia were

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like, oh, something's happened on the road, oh, well, we better

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turn left.

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You know, not realising that it's actually Donna, who's there, it's

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really Russell saying to us.

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Every time something bad happens, there are people affected and

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there are people that, if you had, you know, if your life had

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taken a different journey, you might know that person that's just

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died, you might know, you know, the person and so you would feel

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that.

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You wouldn't be talking about hole punches and food and things

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like that.

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I just think it's brilliant.

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It's so clever and to actually take something like the adipose.

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Which, you know, whether Trinity Wells says, what, 60000000 people

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have died or something.

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And Sylvia's face just decide, whatever, I don't care because

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she's so broken by events.

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But yeah, like you say, I think it's the genius of Russell is to

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take the joy and silliness of partners of crime, adds Trinity

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Wells, which is the campus singer's ever been in Doctor Who.

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Um, put that in, have people in a fascist Britain watching that on

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the telly and have the amazing Jacqueline King who plays Sylvia

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just have this amazing expression on her face.

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It's just taking all these things and turning it into this amazing

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glorious piece of drama.

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That shot where Donna comes in to talk to Sylvia and the focus

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just stays on Sylvia and she's totally broken.

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And it's Catherine doing most of the talking, but we just stay on

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Jacqueline and, you know, we've seen her be so aggressive and

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sharp tongued and clever.

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And just it's over the course of the episode, as you say, Joe, we

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see her slowly losing that gumption, losing that gumption, and

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then, you know, and Graham Harper doesn't shy away from that.

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He's like look at this woman's face.

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Yeah.

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Look at this humanity.

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Because she's amazing.

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But also it's like, even though this episode is all about Donna

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00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:42.779
and all about how important Donna is.

245
00:13:43.019 --> 00:13:48.240
Yeah, we're being forced to confront something terrible happening

246
00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:49.799
to someone who isn't us.

247
00:13:49.860 --> 00:13:54.840
It's so Twilight Zony, the way it turns on Sylvia in that way, that

248
00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:57.659
she was so dismissive of it earlier, but now she's in the middle

249
00:13:57.659 --> 00:13:58.679
of it. just breaks her.

250
00:13:58.740 --> 00:14:02.039
What it allows us to see as well is just what a three-dimensional

251
00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:02.940
character Donner is.

252
00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:07.200
Because Donna isn't a terrible person before she meets a doctor.

253
00:14:07.259 --> 00:14:10.679
Donna's just a bit selfish, a bit broken down by life.

254
00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:13.259
And, you know, Sylvia is absolutely right.

255
00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:14.940
Donna wants to go and work at H.C.

256
00:14:14.940 --> 00:14:18.000
Clemens because she wants to meet a rich man who will just sort

257
00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:18.960
out her life for it.

258
00:14:19.019 --> 00:14:21.960
She's just a bit selfish and uncaring about the world around it.

259
00:14:22.019 --> 00:14:24.720
And what we actually see in this story is you see Donna.

260
00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:29.220
Being broken by the events that are happening and then obviously

261
00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:32.159
being terrified at the end and then just this amazing hero at the

262
00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:32.340
end.

263
00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:36.240
But what you see with her, I think with Sylvia, is you see her

264
00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:40.559
Broken down, but when Sylvia absolutely break is broken, Donna

265
00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:41.279
does try.

266
00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:47.340
You know, so you, You go from these scenes of Donna, trying to

267
00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:48.600
help her mum.

268
00:14:48.659 --> 00:14:52.080
And then at the next time calling Rocco Mussolini.

269
00:14:52.139 --> 00:14:54.539
You know, I think it just shows what an amazing developed

270
00:14:54.539 --> 00:15:00.120
character Donna actually is that she's not just Selfish woman

271
00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:02.460
whose life was changed by the doctor.

272
00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:05.580
All that stuff is in her already and she's constantly trying, but

273
00:15:05.580 --> 00:15:06.840
it just keeps breaking her down.

274
00:15:06.899 --> 00:15:10.320
And, you know, by having Sylvia and Will.

275
00:15:10.379 --> 00:15:13.019
As these really good characters around her.

276
00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:13.919
It allows us.

277
00:15:13.980 --> 00:15:15.600
I think again, that's what Russell's done brilliantly by

278
00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:16.980
introducing the families to the show.

279
00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:20.519
We see what has made the companions who they are and what they're

280
00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:23.279
fighting against as well as what they actually are.

281
00:15:23.340 --> 00:15:27.419
Yeah, I mean, in a few episodes time, we'll have the doctor

282
00:15:27.419 --> 00:15:32.220
lecturing, Sylvia, about the way that she's treated Donna.

283
00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:36.000
And here you've got, you know, the sort of comedy banter hectoring

284
00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:40.200
that they do in the car where she's calling her madam and, you

285
00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:41.460
know, talking down to her.

286
00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:46.740
And then that scene that that Brendan mentioned is Sylvia's last

287
00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:48.539
scene in the episode.

288
00:15:48.539 --> 00:15:50.039
And she only says one word.

289
00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:53.639
She does speak, and it's Donna in the background says something

290
00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:58.679
like, I've always been a great disappointment to you, and she just

291
00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:02.399
quietly says yes, and she just really means it.

292
00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:05.639
Like, and that's so much more horrible and so much more

293
00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:10.860
heartbreaking than all of the loud, noisy performative put downs

294
00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:15.419
that we get normally from Sylvia and have been getting sort of all

295
00:16:15.419 --> 00:16:15.840
the way through.

296
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:18.299
I think that seems brilliant.

297
00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:22.500
And it's sort of bookends with the scene in partners in crime

298
00:16:22.500 --> 00:16:28.200
where Don is sitting in the foreground, just staring into the

299
00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:32.039
distance while Sylvia is cleaning up the kitchen, you know, that

300
00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:36.179
sort of time lapse thing where Sylvia's just talking about how

301
00:16:36.179 --> 00:16:40.259
disappointed she is in Donner and how kind of worthless and

302
00:16:40.259 --> 00:16:42.600
useless she thinks Donna is.

303
00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:45.059
And she does all that without us hating it.

304
00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.299
Like, I don't think we ever dislike Sylvia, however mean she is to

305
00:16:48.299 --> 00:16:48.840
Donna.

306
00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:51.299
We love Donna, but Sylvia's fantastic.

307
00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:55.919
I think Sylvia just wants, you know, it's actually that scene

308
00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:57.360
where the doctor tells Sylvia.

309
00:16:57.480 --> 00:16:58.740
He's right.

310
00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:00.720
She should tell Donna that she's proud of her.

311
00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:04.259
But at the same time, that's very easy for the doctor to say

312
00:17:04.259 --> 00:17:07.259
because he's not living in a family and not living in the real

313
00:17:07.259 --> 00:17:07.559
world.

314
00:17:07.619 --> 00:17:11.400
Again, I think it's brilliant because I think, I assume that it's

315
00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:14.759
deliberate that actually, well, we are on the doctor's side, it's

316
00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:17.940
actually very easy for someone like the doctor to come in and say

317
00:17:17.940 --> 00:17:18.180
that.

318
00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:21.359
It's not easy when you're living day-to-day life.

319
00:17:21.420 --> 00:17:22.920
Sylvia just wants the best for Donna.

320
00:17:22.980 --> 00:17:25.859
Yeah, Sylvia's not perfect, but she wants the best of Donna and

321
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:28.440
Sylvia's been dealt the hard life, you know, especially when her

322
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:31.680
husband dies, you know, so and she's got her dad living with her

323
00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:35.759
you know, Sylvia, you know, has a, I don't know how old Donna's

324
00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:36.119
meant to be.

325
00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:37.259
She's in her 30s, isn't she?

326
00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:41.160
You know, Sylvia has an adult daughter living with her and her

327
00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:42.420
elderly dad living with her.

328
00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:45.059
You know, Sylvia's at the time of her life, but she should be, is

329
00:17:45.059 --> 00:17:45.960
it the Wednesday girls?

330
00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:47.640
She goes out with him partners in crime.

331
00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:49.559
That should be Sylvia's life.

332
00:17:49.619 --> 00:17:54.000
She should be out. enjoying her late middle age or her middle

333
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:54.420
age.

334
00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:57.539
She shouldn't be, looking after this daughter who's a bit feckless

335
00:17:57.539 --> 00:18:00.059
and an elderly grandad who just goes and sits on a hill and

336
00:18:00.059 --> 00:18:00.720
watches the stars.

337
00:18:00.779 --> 00:18:02.819
You know, actually, when you look at it from Sylvia's point of

338
00:18:02.819 --> 00:18:07.200
view, she's got quite a, you know, just come on, family, give me

339
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:08.339
some cut me some slack.

340
00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:09.299
Let me live my life.

341
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.960
So I actually very much can see Sylvia's point of view through a

342
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:13.319
lot of it.

343
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:17.819
I think also, I mean, yes, this, we, we've been talking quite a

344
00:18:17.819 --> 00:18:22.980
lot about the darkness and the brokenness of these characters, but

345
00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:28.140
then you still have moments until that sort of lasts 15 minutes

346
00:18:28.140 --> 00:18:33.660
where these characters are actually still finding joy and love

347
00:18:33.660 --> 00:18:38.940
from each other when they go on holiday because they, they win the

348
00:18:38.940 --> 00:18:41.460
the raffle, they're actually enjoying themselves.

349
00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:45.420
And Sylvia says to Donna, oh, your father would have loved this.

350
00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:48.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah, yeah.

351
00:18:48.420 --> 00:18:52.500
And, and, and, and you see, you can see that these characters

352
00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:54.420
actually, these people really love each other.

353
00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:59.039
And then there's that wonderful shot the next on Christmas morning

354
00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:03.960
when Sylvia's made Wolf sleep on the cow.

355
00:19:05.700 --> 00:19:06.720
Well, she's in bed.

356
00:19:06.779 --> 00:19:09.720
She's in bed wearing that gorgeous red silk thing, eating

357
00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:10.500
chocolate.

358
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:13.799
You know, I think getting out of bed till 10.

359
00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:15.420
She deserves this.

360
00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:18.059
You know, Sylvia should be out with the Wednesday girls every

361
00:19:18.059 --> 00:19:18.359
night.

362
00:19:18.420 --> 00:19:22.559
She should be having Christmas with an adult single jobless

363
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:25.980
daughter, you know, her dad.

364
00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:26.819
Yeah.

365
00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:28.980
Oh my god, Suzette's dead.

366
00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:30.480
I just...

367
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:31.680
Neres is dead.

368
00:19:31.740 --> 00:19:33.299
There's no loss.

369
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:36.119
I was once a...

370
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:37.680
It wasn't a convention, I don't think.

371
00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:39.539
It was a sort of gathering of Dr. He fans.

372
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:43.440
There used to be a lot of Dr. get together and Just get very drunk

373
00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:45.900
and play silly games and stuff and someone did do, I think, a

374
00:19:45.900 --> 00:19:48.059
video or certainly acted it in front of us.

375
00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:49.559
I think it might have been Paul Condon.

376
00:19:49.619 --> 00:19:52.680
I've got a feeling it was Paul and um, it was him and somebody

377
00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:57.000
else and they just did, did an impression, a sketch about Donna

378
00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:59.759
and Sylvia remembering people who was dead.

379
00:19:59.819 --> 00:20:02.400
You know, just it kept going on and on until the point Donna was

380
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:03.359
like, all right, let it go.

381
00:20:03.420 --> 00:20:04.319
They're all dead.

382
00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:05.940
We get it. everyone's there.

383
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:08.819
But I did think when you talk about the hope and the love.

384
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:13.259
There's the glorious moment where Donna goes screaming in to tell

385
00:20:13.259 --> 00:20:14.039
them to stop singing.

386
00:20:14.099 --> 00:20:19.079
And then the next shot of Sylvia just sat there trying so hard to

387
00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:21.180
be part of this whole singing group.

388
00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:24.180
And she just can't do it because she's not made that way.

389
00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:25.799
She's quite introverted, I think.

390
00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:27.900
She's not, she can't get on with strangers.

391
00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:31.740
But she's trying so hard because Donovan Will for making her try.

392
00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:34.259
And you just see a little bit of hope on her face.

393
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:37.980
And again, it's just about these characters. knocking each other

394
00:20:37.980 --> 00:20:40.140
down, but also always building each other up.

395
00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:43.559
I think they're very sort of, I don't think, you know, if Sylvia

396
00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:46.319
and Donald were in another show and the doctor never came in.

397
00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:49.680
What you would see is Sylvia knocking anybody out who slagged off

398
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:50.160
Donna.

399
00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:53.099
Sylvia would absolutely defend on her to the hill.

400
00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:55.619
She's just not going to say it to her face because she's not very

401
00:20:55.619 --> 00:20:56.519
good with her emotions.

402
00:20:56.579 --> 00:20:59.759
She'll be the 1st one to slag dollar off to her face, but the

403
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:01.920
moment she hears a neighbour doing it, Donna Sylvia will be

404
00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:02.940
hitting her with a frying pan.

405
00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:06.359
She would absolutely defend her daughter more than anyone in the

406
00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:06.839
world, I think.

407
00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:12.900
I think too, you get hints this series about how much she loves

408
00:21:12.900 --> 00:21:14.579
Wolf too.

409
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.359
Like, you know, she bosses him around, won't let him have a webcam

410
00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:21.299
you know, like sort of monsters him and orders him about.

411
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:25.019
But that bit in the poison sky where she's crying in his arms and

412
00:21:25.019 --> 00:21:27.119
he's calling her my little girl.

413
00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:30.599
Like, it's it's really, really beautiful.

414
00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:31.680
It's so spectacular.

415
00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:38.700
I mean, we had, we had 2 years with the tilers, um, and just one

416
00:21:38.700 --> 00:21:42.960
year and a Christmas special, um, with the nobles, but I just

417
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:47.039
think they're so, you know, the relationships, I think it's like

418
00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:49.799
what you said before, Joe, that it doesn't really take very much

419
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:54.660
time for Russell to create a character, just the way that he's

420
00:21:54.660 --> 00:21:57.539
able to sketch out characters in a few lines of dialogue.

421
00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:59.640
He doesn't even need dialogue at times.

422
00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:02.759
I was the 1st one of the 1st jobs I had on the TV series or

423
00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:06.539
related to the TV series was, um, I did the series 2 spinoff

424
00:22:06.539 --> 00:22:10.440
websites, but I wrote Martha Jones is my space blog, which shows

425
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:11.039
how old.

426
00:22:11.099 --> 00:22:12.240
Everything is now.

427
00:22:12.299 --> 00:22:13.380
It's a MySpace block.

428
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:15.779
I think she was only...

429
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:20.099
I think I only read on MySpace was Tom, you know, from the MySpace

430
00:22:20.099 --> 00:22:20.579
style.

431
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:24.119
So I wrote the officials, it meant I got to read the scripts

432
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:26.940
obviously, to get to know the character so that the MySpace blogs

433
00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:28.200
would be up when the episode went out.

434
00:22:28.259 --> 00:22:32.339
And the opening of Smith and Jones.

435
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:38.460
Russell creates that entire family, Martha's huge family, and

436
00:22:38.460 --> 00:22:43.859
absolutely, within a minute of a basically a montage of people

437
00:22:43.859 --> 00:22:45.180
having 2 or 3 lines.

438
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:49.019
I absolutely know everything about Martha's family.

439
00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:49.619
I know.

440
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:53.819
I was able to write that MySpace page because it was just, Well

441
00:22:53.819 --> 00:22:54.240
it's there.

442
00:22:54.299 --> 00:22:56.819
It's there in 30 seconds a minute of television.

443
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:57.779
Russell has created.

444
00:22:57.900 --> 00:23:00.119
Characters and a setup.

445
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.240
That are more developed than you might see after an hour of

446
00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:05.460
television written by somebody else.

447
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:07.500
You know, I mean, that's the genius of what he does.

448
00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:11.579
So we absolutely know who Martha is because we see these snapshots

449
00:23:11.579 --> 00:23:12.119
of her family.

450
00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:13.680
And it's the same with Donna.

451
00:23:13.740 --> 00:23:16.559
We realise who Donna is, partly because Sylvia isn't the best mum

452
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:19.680
in the world, but she's trying because of Will, you know, I mean

453
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:23.460
Will, actually, although he's very lovely, what does Will actually

454
00:23:23.460 --> 00:23:26.279
do to help his daughter or help his granddaughter, he doesn't

455
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:29.880
actually, you know, there are dimensions to all of them, which I

456
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:30.599
think are brilliant.

457
00:23:30.660 --> 00:23:35.039
And again, it's why the turn left, the next time trader at the end

458
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:37.259
of turn left is just the most exciting thing in the world ever, not

459
00:23:37.259 --> 00:23:39.720
because of the Daleks invading Earth, but because we're seeing all

460
00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:42.240
these characters coming back from all these different things that

461
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:43.019
Russell has created.

462
00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:57.539
Rose is back.

463
00:23:57.599 --> 00:23:58.440
Yay.

464
00:23:58.559 --> 00:23:59.099
Oh, is she?

465
00:23:59.160 --> 00:23:59.460
Yeah.

466
00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:01.440
Well, is she?

467
00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:02.519
Is she doing the voice?

468
00:24:02.579 --> 00:24:03.539
Is she doing the accent?

469
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:04.440
Is she doing the teeth?

470
00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:07.019
Well, the teeth are new.

471
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:10.559
I think that she is amazing in this.

472
00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:14.819
And she hasn't had any dialogue yet this year.

473
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:15.539
Am I right?

474
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:16.259
She's a peer.

475
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:17.400
She's appeared.

476
00:24:17.460 --> 00:24:22.200
She has, um, she has said something to, no, she says something to

477
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:24.539
no, she doesn't say anything to Donna in partners in crime.

478
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:25.740
Yeah, no.

479
00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:27.119
So she said no dialogue.

480
00:24:27.180 --> 00:24:31.079
So this is her back and she's having to be the doctor.

481
00:24:31.140 --> 00:24:34.319
And it turns out she's actually really good at it.

482
00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:35.160
That's right.

483
00:24:35.220 --> 00:24:36.299
Donna said something to her.

484
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:37.019
Yes.

485
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:39.480
Billy actually had trouble.

486
00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:41.519
She said in interviews around the time.

487
00:24:41.579 --> 00:24:45.059
She's like, I started reading script.

488
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:45.720
She had to watch herself.

489
00:24:45.779 --> 00:24:47.819
She's like, I started reading the script and I don't know how to

490
00:24:47.819 --> 00:24:48.900
play this person anymore.

491
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:53.220
So I went out and bought the 1st 2 series on TBD and watched to

492
00:24:53.220 --> 00:24:58.319
learn and I realised, oh, but, oh, no, she wouldn't, if she's like

493
00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:00.480
trying to save the world now, she wouldn't be like this and she

494
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.480
wouldn't be getting jealous of Lucy with the pinot rolls at the

495
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:03.660
party.

496
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:04.980
That's not who she is anymore.

497
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:08.819
Um, and, but she brings it.

498
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:14.519
Like she brings this this believable thing that this is still rose

499
00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:15.839
and she's still a bit cheeky.

500
00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:20.819
Yeah, but she is a lot more determined and a lot more driven and a

501
00:25:20.819 --> 00:25:23.880
lot more focussed than she was previously.

502
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:29.220
And I remember at the time when we saw her in partners in crime, No

503
00:25:29.220 --> 00:25:32.700
it had been announced she was returning this series.

504
00:25:32.759 --> 00:25:37.319
So the shock of seeing Rose, to me at least, was the look on her

505
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:40.440
face, you know, and not knowing what that meant.

506
00:25:40.500 --> 00:25:44.099
And I thought we might be in for evil rose, but we didn't we

507
00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:47.940
didn't get that, thankfully, because anytime you think, oh, this

508
00:25:47.940 --> 00:25:51.779
character might be evil, and if it ever comes true, it's like, well

509
00:25:51.779 --> 00:25:54.000
that's very unsatisfying.

510
00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:58.500
So one thing I love about Rose in the episode is actually how

511
00:25:58.500 --> 00:25:59.640
detached she is.

512
00:25:59.700 --> 00:26:03.059
Like you say about her having to take on the role of the doctor.

513
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:07.859
Um, This shows how much it shows on which he's developed and

514
00:26:07.859 --> 00:26:13.019
changed because Rose, the old Rose, and Martha, or anyone like

515
00:26:13.019 --> 00:26:15.420
that, the beginning of the episode would have gone up to Donna and

516
00:26:15.420 --> 00:26:17.339
gone, okay, here's what's happening.

517
00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:18.420
We can stop it now.

518
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:20.759
Rose knows Donna needs to die.

519
00:26:20.819 --> 00:26:23.160
So she knows Donna needs to make that decision.

520
00:26:23.220 --> 00:26:28.079
So she allows all this horribleness to happen.

521
00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:30.539
And she keeps saying to Don, and when towards the end, she says to

522
00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:34.019
Donna, you will come back. you know, you will find me again.

523
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:39.059
Um, it's just very, The bit where she talks about Jack, who

524
00:26:39.059 --> 00:26:41.640
remember she loved Captain Jack, and she talks about Captain Jack

525
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.180
being taken to the Centaurin homeworld, and her face is just like

526
00:26:45.299 --> 00:26:46.859
Yeah, this has to happen.

527
00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:48.599
And I just think it's brilliant.

528
00:26:48.660 --> 00:26:54.000
It's, it's, it's, quite cold and scary, but she knows what she has

529
00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:54.359
to do.

530
00:26:54.420 --> 00:26:57.960
And she only really, I feel, shows emotion.

531
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:03.660
That glorious moment towards the end where the heroic music is

532
00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:05.339
playing and Donna's worked it all out.

533
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:07.920
All I need to do is go and argue with myself and isn't it

534
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:08.460
brilliant?

535
00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:10.619
And the audience are thinking, yes, it's brilliant.

536
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:14.640
And then Billy Piper's face is just like, no, that's not what's

537
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:15.119
going to happen.

538
00:27:15.180 --> 00:27:18.240
And that's when she really shows emotion and shows it on her face

539
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:19.500
and then she just said she's sorry.

540
00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:20.339
It's just glorious.

541
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:20.880
It's so.

542
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:22.619
Doctor Who.

543
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:23.940
She is just Doctor Who in the story.

544
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:28.200
She responds to that thing about the argument where she says, wow

545
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:29.220
I'd really like to see that.

546
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:34.559
And that is a sort of very, very sort of rose thing to say.

547
00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:37.079
Like you can really see that happening.

548
00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:41.940
But it's that thing where almost like Donna kind of basically

549
00:27:41.940 --> 00:27:47.460
knows the genre rules, you know, that if this timeline gets erased

550
00:27:47.460 --> 00:27:51.000
you know, she'll live a happy life with the doctor, and she keeps

551
00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:54.000
saying, I'm not going to die because I'll live on with the doctor

552
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:56.220
but of course that's not what's going to happen at all.

553
00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:00.660
She is going to get hit by a drunk and we'll see her die.

554
00:28:00.660 --> 00:28:03.420
Like, and then in a couple of weeks, she'll die again.

555
00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:08.220
Yeah, but we kind of, you know, that's a thing that's really going

556
00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:08.700
to happen.

557
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:09.599
Yeah.

558
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:13.259
And what I found when rewatching it was, although obviously I know

559
00:28:13.259 --> 00:28:13.859
where it's going.

560
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:15.660
There is a moment where you do sit there and go.

561
00:28:15.779 --> 00:28:18.000
Oh, perhaps that's what's going to happen.

562
00:28:18.059 --> 00:28:20.700
Donna just needs to go and talk to Donna and Sylvia in the car and

563
00:28:20.700 --> 00:28:21.539
say turn left.

564
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:24.119
And won't that be brilliant watching Donna argue with herself?

565
00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:25.079
You want to watch that?

566
00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:27.480
You're with Rose. you're sitting there going, I want to see that

567
00:28:27.660 --> 00:28:31.680
And then just the music stopped as Rosie's face changes and you go

568
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:33.240
oh, that's not what's going to happen, is it?

569
00:28:33.299 --> 00:28:36.599
No, that's thank you, Russell, for teasing us with that moment of

570
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:39.359
joy and then realising, no, you think it's been dark up until

571
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:39.720
now.

572
00:28:39.779 --> 00:28:40.859
It's going to get even darker.

573
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:46.319
The thing I picked up on this time that I'd never picked up on

574
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:53.279
before, is that the reason that Rose knows that Donna is going to

575
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:58.019
die is because we're not necessarily seeing Rose in order.

576
00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:01.500
Rose has already stood over Donna's body and said, tell him I said

577
00:29:01.500 --> 00:29:02.339
bad wolf.

578
00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:03.779
That's how she knows what to do.

579
00:29:04.500 --> 00:29:11.099
You notice too that you also have rose by someone's side after

580
00:29:11.099 --> 00:29:14.279
they hit by a car and waiting with them.

581
00:29:16.859 --> 00:29:19.200
God, Russell's brilliant.

582
00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:21.000
I never made that connection before.

583
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:22.799
That's so good.

584
00:29:22.859 --> 00:29:24.359
That's brilliant.

585
00:29:24.420 --> 00:29:25.799
Bad Wolf?

586
00:29:27.059 --> 00:29:31.079
God, I remember Doctor Who magazine the week after that and every

587
00:29:31.079 --> 00:29:35.220
word on the cover was replaced by Bad Boys.

588
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:38.759
And even the TARDIS, even where it's this police box on the Tartar

589
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:41.279
which has been sort of completely sacrosanct.

590
00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:44.160
I mean, you had to step up from having it graffitied on the wall.

591
00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:45.660
At the door side.

592
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:46.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

593
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:48.059
It's just tremendous.

594
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:49.859
It's so great. so exciting.

595
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:53.579
And I think I was reading about time, sort of tat wood talking

596
00:29:53.579 --> 00:29:58.380
about it, and grumbling about it, or something like that, you know

597
00:29:58.380 --> 00:30:00.779
what's bad wolf meant to mean and all of that.

598
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:04.920
But I mean, it was so central to series one.

599
00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:08.759
It's been mentioned over and over again And that moment is so

600
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:11.700
incredibly exciting, like so thrilling.

601
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:14.759
And can we mention Graham Harper?

602
00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:18.000
Um, you know, like it was just shot after shot after shot.

603
00:30:18.059 --> 00:30:19.559
The camera's sort of moving all the time.

604
00:30:19.619 --> 00:30:21.779
We're seeing just bad wolf all over the place.

605
00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:25.259
The music, you know, Murray's going crazy and it really is just

606
00:30:25.259 --> 00:30:27.299
the most exciting thing possible, I think.

607
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:28.140
Yeah.

608
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:31.079
And I think that's more important than us necessarily knowing 100

609
00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:32.220
what Bad Wolf means.

610
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:32.880
Oh, yes.

611
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:33.900
You know, that's so much more.

612
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:35.940
I mean, can't imagine being a, yeah, exactly.

613
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.759
Imagine being a kid watching that and going, bad wolf back from

614
00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:39.119
the birds.

615
00:30:39.180 --> 00:30:41.279
Because I mean, I found, because I didn't know anything about the

616
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:45.539
1st series when it was going out, when you gradually realised, well

617
00:30:45.539 --> 00:30:48.720
watching the 1st series that Bad Wolf kept being mentioned, it was

618
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:52.200
just like, oh, this isn't, this isn't just new Doctor Who.

619
00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:53.400
This is there's something going on.

620
00:30:53.460 --> 00:30:54.779
There's a mystery.

621
00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:56.940
And it kind of makes sense at the end.

622
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:59.759
And yeah, I mean, I don't know why Rose doesn't just say to Donna

623
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:02.039
Rose Tyler, telling Rose Tyler.

624
00:31:02.099 --> 00:31:04.980
But you know, Rose likes the drama.

625
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:08.160
She's, she's like, more exciting in Miss Bad Wolf.

626
00:31:08.220 --> 00:31:08.940
That'll be more exciting.

627
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:11.039
And you know, doctor at the end says, it's the end of the

628
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:11.400
universe.

629
00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:12.779
Don't quite know how he's got that.

630
00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:18.119
But um, He knows, you know, Bad Wolf before, Bad Wolf means Rose

631
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:21.839
is back and, you know, big, big, big stuff is happening.

632
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:25.619
I suppose if she'd said Rose Tyler, the doctor would have just

633
00:31:25.619 --> 00:31:27.180
been, oh, right, she's come around for a chat.

634
00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:28.380
It's like, okay, bad wolf.

635
00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:30.000
Oh, okay.

636
00:31:30.059 --> 00:31:33.119
Cloisterbell, red lighting, flames.

637
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:34.319
Oh, dear.

638
00:31:35.940 --> 00:31:41.160
Yeah, I mean, the thing with Bad Wolf is, I think it makes enough

639
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:49.380
sense in its initial in series one here and later on in Day of the

640
00:31:49.380 --> 00:31:49.680
Doctor.

641
00:31:49.740 --> 00:31:54.059
I think the usage of the word makes enough sense and it gives fans

642
00:31:54.059 --> 00:31:56.460
things to debate about, which is what we love.

643
00:31:56.519 --> 00:32:00.720
I mean, look at the, regardless of what you think of the episodes

644
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:04.079
themselves, look at fan discussion after the Battle of Ranskorev

645
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:07.920
Colos and look at fan discussion after the timeless children, fans

646
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:10.859
love having something to speculate on, and it means this.

647
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:11.759
No, it means that.

648
00:32:11.819 --> 00:32:18.599
And the whole thing is bad wolf kind of means whatever it needs to

649
00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:22.079
mean within the plot and it's always, it's what links the doctor

650
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:23.099
and rose.

651
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:25.259
That's all you really need to know.

652
00:32:25.380 --> 00:32:29.220
And as for why, you know, the lettering changes.

653
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:33.660
Look, I always took it as it's the Tartar saying, yeah, some bad

654
00:32:33.660 --> 00:32:37.380
stuff's about to happen, but other people have said, no, the signs

655
00:32:37.380 --> 00:32:38.460
physically change.

656
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:41.880
Yes, they can change because that's what she did.

657
00:32:41.940 --> 00:32:46.619
She put Bad Wolf all over the universe the 1st time and she's done

658
00:32:46.619 --> 00:32:47.400
it again somehow.

659
00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:48.420
Maybe she did.

660
00:32:48.420 --> 00:32:48.960
I don't care.

661
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:49.799
At the end of series one.

662
00:32:49.859 --> 00:32:50.519
Maybe she did.

663
00:32:51.299 --> 00:32:54.119
See, fans debating things.

664
00:32:54.180 --> 00:32:56.400
So all the time and space at the same time.

665
00:32:56.519 --> 00:32:58.500
That's true, actually.

666
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:00.420
Maybe she planted that there.

667
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:05.400
Yeah, after she, after she breached the hull of satellite 5 with

668
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:07.680
those letters she flung off into nowhere.

669
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:10.079
And nobody died.

670
00:33:19.140 --> 00:33:23.339
Let's talk about the descent of Britain into a kind of fascist

671
00:33:23.339 --> 00:33:24.299
dystopia.

672
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:25.619
Do you mean in the episode?

673
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:28.140
Yeah, I mean, in the episode during real life.

674
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:31.559
Yeah, you're not talking about the last...

675
00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:34.140
We've been living in years and years at the moment, so...

676
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:36.900
Well, there's heaps of years and years in this, isn't there?

677
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:39.960
I mean, there's scenes in years and years where people are

678
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:43.200
billeted in people's houses after the flooding happens, people are

679
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:46.559
kind of forcibly billeted in each other's houses like we get

680
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:47.220
here.

681
00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:51.420
And there is a sort of hilarious thing where something happens to

682
00:33:51.420 --> 00:33:54.240
Rory Kinnear and he keeps turning left all the time.

683
00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:58.619
And I just want to think that that's Russell mentioning this

684
00:33:58.619 --> 00:33:59.220
episode title.

685
00:33:59.339 --> 00:34:02.819
So this is the 1st draft of years and years.

686
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:03.420
The pilot.

687
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.779
Yeah, no, you see that, don't you?

688
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:09.599
it's an idea that's got stuck in his head.

689
00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:10.440
Yeah.

690
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:15.780
Like, he did it in Doctor Who, and something chimed with him and

691
00:34:15.780 --> 00:34:18.840
he felt that's something I want to come back to.

692
00:34:18.900 --> 00:34:22.199
I wonder where there was there, there was some talk.

693
00:34:22.260 --> 00:34:25.380
Was it in the writer style where there was some a torchwood idea

694
00:34:25.380 --> 00:34:28.860
an idea that he thought, you know, because, I mean, I guess

695
00:34:28.860 --> 00:34:33.719
there's also that a bit in children of earth where you've got the

696
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:38.280
government kind of devolving into fascism as well as a result of

697
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:38.880
the aliens.

698
00:34:39.300 --> 00:34:44.639
Well, I think it's, I mean, certainly the take I get from turn

699
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:48.599
left, children of Earth, and then obviously years and years, um, is

700
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:53.219
that, Too many people over here.

701
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:58.800
It's not that people are necessarily racist or, you know

702
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:00.599
particularly right wing.

703
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:03.780
It's just they hear migrants.

704
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:07.320
They hear refugees and they think of people who are different to

705
00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:07.619
us.

706
00:35:07.739 --> 00:35:12.539
Um, you know, they think of these people have different cultures

707
00:35:12.539 --> 00:35:14.639
different lives, different colour skin.

708
00:35:14.699 --> 00:35:16.139
Therefore, they are different.

709
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:19.440
Therefore, we can slightly detach ourselves from their plight.

710
00:35:19.500 --> 00:35:22.980
And I think what Russell is always doing and does it so

711
00:35:22.980 --> 00:35:26.940
brilliantly in turn left is go, just one thing could happen and

712
00:35:26.940 --> 00:35:27.480
that's us.

713
00:35:27.539 --> 00:35:31.800
The, you know, the white working class middle class people in

714
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:34.500
Britain, one thing could happen, and that's us.

715
00:35:34.739 --> 00:35:41.280
And so he's saying, you know, remember that those people who seem

716
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:45.300
different to us who are trying to escape Syria or wherever, which

717
00:35:45.300 --> 00:35:46.679
we don't really understand.

718
00:35:46.739 --> 00:35:49.500
But it's saying, those people are just us.

719
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:53.760
They are the normal people who live with their families and their

720
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:56.340
friends and wanting to just live their lives.

721
00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:59.039
They're in this situation where they're fighting for life and

722
00:35:59.039 --> 00:35:59.760
they're trying to escape.

723
00:35:59.820 --> 00:36:03.840
Just take that into consideration that actually, and I think turn

724
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:07.380
left does it brilliantly is a bit where, um, Sylvia says we don't

725
00:36:07.380 --> 00:36:08.639
even have the vote or something.

726
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:11.099
Yeah, you know, where nobody.

727
00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:14.099
Just a couple of things could happen and you are nobody.

728
00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:20.219
You no longer have, you know, a right to, to, to, to democracy.

729
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:22.619
And I think it's very terrifying.

730
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:29.099
And, you know, sadly, there are elements of it, you know, creeping

731
00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:32.699
across the world at the moment, without getting too political.

732
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:36.300
You know, there are moments where you go, okay, yeah, no, that's

733
00:36:36.300 --> 00:36:36.780
kind of happening.

734
00:36:36.900 --> 00:36:38.219
No, get political.

735
00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:42.420
I mean, years and years is not about the future, particularly.

736
00:36:42.539 --> 00:36:46.139
It is about things happening to other people in distant countries

737
00:36:46.139 --> 00:36:49.980
happening to a nice middle class family that we can easily

738
00:36:49.980 --> 00:36:51.300
identify with.

739
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:53.820
I think, and you know, you know, financial collapse.

740
00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:58.500
People, um, suffering in the gig economy, you know, people making

741
00:36:58.500 --> 00:37:02.400
these sort of last stitch, desperate efforts to cross the sea to

742
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:03.780
get to somewhere where they can live.

743
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:06.239
All of those things are happening to people now.

744
00:37:06.300 --> 00:37:10.559
But Russell makes them all happen to a single family who we know

745
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:11.340
and like.

746
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:16.679
And you've got that here with the nobles kind of in number 29 with

747
00:37:16.679 --> 00:37:21.239
heaps and heaps of people, the merchandani family, and Rocco, and

748
00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:25.440
all of those people all sort of shoved into this sort of tiny

749
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:26.940
terrace house.

750
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:32.579
It ties into, I think, what I was saying earlier on about Sylvia

751
00:37:32.579 --> 00:37:33.780
talking about the whole punch.

752
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:38.219
Or Donna talking about food while the, you know, Smith and Jones

753
00:37:38.219 --> 00:37:38.760
is happening.

754
00:37:38.820 --> 00:37:41.280
It's the fact that actually the only way we can get on with our

755
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:44.460
lives. is to carry on living our lives.

756
00:37:44.579 --> 00:37:47.579
You know, but I'm very aware that while we're sitting here

757
00:37:47.579 --> 00:37:51.420
babbling about an episode of Doctor Who that's 10 years old.

758
00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:54.539
There's people fighting for their lives elsewhere in the world, but

759
00:37:54.539 --> 00:37:59.699
we can't, you can't constantly be, um, you've got to get on with

760
00:37:59.699 --> 00:38:02.400
our own lives and and the, you know, the tiny things that actually

761
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:05.400
matter to us like a whole punch or food or talking about Doctor

762
00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:05.820
Who.

763
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:08.820
We have to get on with our own lives, but I think what turn left

764
00:38:08.820 --> 00:38:12.239
is doing is going, how very quickly you could be the person who

765
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:16.019
one minute is talking about stationary and the next minute has

766
00:38:16.019 --> 00:38:20.280
nowhere to live, has no vote, has no friends left and is living

767
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:22.860
with people who then gets into a concentration camp.

768
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:24.900
You know, that can happen.

769
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:30.300
Um, and actually I find turn left. more satisfying and more

770
00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:34.260
believable in a bizarre way, despite being science fiction, than

771
00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:37.559
years and years, because in years and years, I felt it got a bit

772
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:41.099
melodramatic and it was just a bit everything is here, whereas

773
00:38:41.099 --> 00:38:41.699
turn left.

774
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:47.880
I think I just watching it through the nobles, and seeing them go

775
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:49.079
through that in 45 minutes.

776
00:38:49.139 --> 00:38:53.460
I think actually I found it much more heartbreaking and believable

777
00:38:53.460 --> 00:38:54.900
let's say, than years and years.

778
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:59.519
That, um, the thing about sort of Donna being oblivious, you know

779
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:05.699
the, that she is berating her workmates and things while Royal

780
00:39:05.699 --> 00:39:10.019
Hope hospitals on the moon, um, and stealing the whole punch and

781
00:39:10.019 --> 00:39:11.400
you know, all that sort of stuff.

782
00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:15.480
And she's sort of shouting and shouting and it's just that moment

783
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:23.579
where she sees Rocco Colosanto being... and she suddenly realises

784
00:39:23.579 --> 00:39:24.239
what that means.

785
00:39:24.300 --> 00:39:29.940
Like, it suddenly occurs to her to wonder, once, once Wilf kind of

786
00:39:29.940 --> 00:39:32.760
you know, basically what's happening, then she's sort of running

787
00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:36.300
after the truck demanding to know what's going on.

788
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:40.380
And there's there's a scene between the guy who plays Rocco and

789
00:39:40.380 --> 00:39:44.820
between Wilf, where Rocco has been this big, jolly, fun character

790
00:39:44.820 --> 00:39:46.860
who's everything's great.

791
00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:47.820
We're all living together.

792
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:49.079
We love meeting nice new people.

793
00:39:49.139 --> 00:39:53.099
And he's even putting that face on to Donna just before that

794
00:39:53.099 --> 00:39:54.239
moment with Will as well.

795
00:39:54.300 --> 00:39:58.619
But then when they, when they salute one another, his face, and

796
00:39:58.619 --> 00:40:03.239
it's just the smallest movement, it's the slightest thing, and he

797
00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:07.500
you can just see the fear because he knows where he's going.

798
00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:11.159
And obviously he can't show that to his children or, you know, his

799
00:40:11.159 --> 00:40:12.059
mother or whatever.

800
00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:17.519
But it's, it's, like, it's terrifying and absolutely

801
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:19.500
heartbreaking.

802
00:40:19.500 --> 00:40:24.179
I find that very relevant today as well because quite rightly

803
00:40:24.179 --> 00:40:27.000
there's a lot of people, and especially you see it on Twitter, of

804
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:30.780
young people saying, listen to us young people, you know

805
00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:33.539
especially when it comes to climate change and issues around race

806
00:40:33.539 --> 00:40:34.199
and gender.

807
00:40:34.619 --> 00:40:39.480
Um, but I think there's a very interesting point made where Wilf

808
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:43.920
and Rocco saluted each other is that also listen to old people.

809
00:40:43.980 --> 00:40:47.460
Listen to people who know this has happened before and it will

810
00:40:47.460 --> 00:40:51.480
happen again, not necessarily because of a time beetle, but things

811
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:52.800
like that will happen again.

812
00:40:52.860 --> 00:40:56.340
And that's why you should listen to older people as well because

813
00:40:56.340 --> 00:40:57.780
Donna doesn't realise.

814
00:40:57.780 --> 00:40:59.219
Donna's blinkered.

815
00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:02.219
She thinks Rocco's going off to do sewing in a nice camp.

816
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:05.099
I mean, he literally calls it a labour camp and Donna doesn't make

817
00:41:05.099 --> 00:41:05.639
the connection.

818
00:41:05.699 --> 00:41:09.239
She needs Will to make the connection for her because Will is

819
00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:09.960
absolutely aware.

820
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:12.960
And the way Rocco is absolutely aware.

821
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:17.219
And Rocco trying to protect Donna is just, I mean, that was a bit

822
00:41:17.219 --> 00:41:19.440
that really, I mean, I cried pretty much as soon as the episode

823
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:22.079
started when I 1st watched it and again today when I watched it

824
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:22.440
this morning.

825
00:41:22.500 --> 00:41:27.480
But that scene is the one that makes me bore my eyes out because

826
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:32.699
again, it's Russell creating this character, Rocco, Rocco, could

827
00:41:32.699 --> 00:41:36.420
have just been a normal bloke who, a normal Italian bloke who

828
00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:40.380
lives in this house and then at the end, when he's getting taken

829
00:41:40.380 --> 00:41:41.699
away, he could have been screaming at the world.

830
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:44.820
But to make him try and protect Donna from the truth, it's just

831
00:41:44.820 --> 00:41:47.639
again, just that extra level of characterisation that he just

832
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:49.199
wouldn't get from another writer.

833
00:41:49.260 --> 00:41:50.280
It's Russell doing that.

834
00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:54.840
And it follows on from a scene where Donna, jokingly almost as an

835
00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:56.159
insult causing Mussolini.

836
00:41:56.219 --> 00:41:59.820
Donald is racist, absolutely horrifically racist towards him.

837
00:41:59.880 --> 00:42:05.159
In a casual way, in the way that actually any one of us could well

838
00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:08.579
be casually raised this, and then 5 minutes later, he's being

839
00:42:08.579 --> 00:42:10.980
taken to a concentration camp where he's going to be killed.

840
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:14.519
You know, and Donna realises, I mean, just the level of

841
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:18.300
characterisation and things that are going on in every scene of

842
00:42:18.300 --> 00:42:19.559
this story, I just think it's astonishing.

843
00:42:22.619 --> 00:42:24.719
I've got something really random.

844
00:42:24.780 --> 00:42:25.619
Okay, go on.

845
00:42:25.739 --> 00:42:30.420
Rose and the Fortune Teller are wearing the same gold eyeshadow.

846
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:36.420
And given that it is such an unusual colour of gold, I wonder if

847
00:42:36.420 --> 00:42:39.179
it's an indication that both of them are not quite in the right

848
00:42:39.179 --> 00:42:43.619
world. time sensitive or apart.

849
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:44.940
Send tweet.

850
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:45.480
Yeah.

851
00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:51.300
So there's a sense too in which this is kind of the reunification

852
00:42:51.300 --> 00:42:55.739
of the sort of Russell cinematic universe at this point because

853
00:42:55.739 --> 00:43:01.500
the, you know, we discover that the fortune teller is one of the

854
00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:06.300
tricksters brigade and the trickstar is, of course, marvellously

855
00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:07.739
from the Sarah Jane adventure.

856
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:09.780
Yeah, it's like the main villain for 3 seasons.

857
00:43:10.019 --> 00:43:16.260
And also, then later in Torchwood Miracle Day, there's also

858
00:43:16.260 --> 00:43:21.539
another of the tricksters, brigade, like it's in one of the

859
00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:25.860
episodes where, like it's set in the 20s with Jack and his lover

860
00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:30.000
and there's this creature that was supposed to kill the president

861
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:34.980
and change the timeline so the Nazis won the war.

862
00:43:35.099 --> 00:43:38.460
Yeah, I mean, what rules I think by saying the Tricksters Brigade

863
00:43:38.460 --> 00:43:41.400
is if you know Doctor Who and you know Sarah Jane adventures, you

864
00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:44.340
know, oh, it's part of the Tricksters Brigade.

865
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:46.800
If you don't know it, you think it's like the Medusa Child.

866
00:43:46.860 --> 00:43:48.539
It's just another thing in there, yeah.

867
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:50.460
And I think what he does brilliantly.

868
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:53.400
I mean, I remember on a Sarah Jane Adventures meeting, one thing

869
00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:56.760
he said was, we can do any story, no matter whether it's been done

870
00:43:56.760 --> 00:43:58.199
in Star Trek a 1000000 times.

871
00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:01.380
What you need to remember is for children watching it, it'll be

872
00:44:01.380 --> 00:44:01.980
the 1st time.

873
00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:04.679
So turn left is sort of like a parallel universe story.

874
00:44:04.739 --> 00:44:06.179
What would happen if something changed?

875
00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:12.360
But what Russell does is, makes it a very simple, very quick, easy

876
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:15.239
sci-fi thing at the beginning and a sci-fi thing at the end.

877
00:44:15.300 --> 00:44:17.940
All we need to know is what we find out at the end is the time

878
00:44:17.940 --> 00:44:19.019
beetle feeds on time.

879
00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:23.760
You know, it's such a basic, simple concept that allows the

880
00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:25.860
audience, a family audience.

881
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:30.659
It allows my mum to watch this episode, not caring, particularly

882
00:44:30.659 --> 00:44:33.960
why it's happening and, you know, Doctor Who says at the end, uh

883
00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:34.920
Beetle feeds on time.

884
00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:35.340
That's it.

885
00:44:35.460 --> 00:44:38.880
But what my mum gets to do and what any normal non-geek person

886
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:42.179
like us gets to do is watch this episode and go, oh my god, and

887
00:44:42.179 --> 00:44:45.719
they followed the emotional story and the drama and the characters

888
00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:49.199
rather than worrying about the huge sci-fi concepts behind it.

889
00:44:49.260 --> 00:44:51.900
And I just think again, it's just very clever.

890
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:56.280
It's making Doctor Who, making science fiction, very, very easy to

891
00:44:56.280 --> 00:45:00.420
understand for mainstream viewers, which is why it became the huge

892
00:45:00.420 --> 00:45:03.719
hit it did, because anybody can watch this and know absolutely

893
00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:07.860
what's going on without caring about, you know, time vector

894
00:45:07.860 --> 00:45:09.659
coordinates or something, you know.

895
00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:11.340
On the time lords.

896
00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:13.619
I mean, it's such a big hit too.

897
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:18.719
That Russell is able to kind of create a mythology just among the

898
00:45:18.719 --> 00:45:21.480
people who have been watching it since 2005.

899
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:26.280
And so all of these references to Royal Hope Hospital, the

900
00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:31.079
references to Sarah Jane and Clyde and Maria, you know, the, the

901
00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:35.039
the torch with stuff, all of these callbacks to recent Doctor Who

902
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:38.880
episodes, you know, it's, it's wonderful how quickly he creates

903
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:44.099
enough of a world to have new fans who've never even, you know

904
00:45:44.099 --> 00:45:45.659
heard of Eric Sayword.

905
00:45:46.139 --> 00:45:51.539
Lucky, lucky, have something that they can really love and sort of

906
00:45:51.539 --> 00:45:54.119
get into and have a sort of flash of recognition about.

907
00:45:54.179 --> 00:45:58.980
The references to Royal Hope Hospital, to them, what the

908
00:45:58.980 --> 00:46:03.000
references to Venom Grubs in Hometown was to us.

909
00:46:03.059 --> 00:46:04.079
It's wonderful.

910
00:46:04.139 --> 00:46:07.199
I mean, I love the fact you even get a flash of Henrix.

911
00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:10.260
You get a flush of the headaches of the Christmas out.

912
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:13.079
Because again, it was that mythology in that world that he built

913
00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:16.380
that it just, I love it.

914
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:18.840
I mean, I wrote a couple of Jackie Tyler short trips, actually, and

915
00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:21.599
just came back and watching all that stuff and going, what can I

916
00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:21.900
mention?

917
00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:25.619
The Royal London Bank, you know, and, you know, the neighbours and

918
00:46:25.619 --> 00:46:26.699
the friends and everything.

919
00:46:26.820 --> 00:46:28.260
It's just brilliant.

920
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:31.800
It's such such a great universe.

921
00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:35.760
And when you, you know, like you say, I mean, even I love that the

922
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:38.159
sexy soldier from Santaran stratagem is back.

923
00:46:38.219 --> 00:46:40.199
Ah, the evil one.

924
00:46:40.260 --> 00:46:42.960
Harris, yeah, the one who gets taken over.

925
00:46:43.019 --> 00:46:44.880
I'm very happy.

926
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:45.960
Have we wanted to get Ross back?

927
00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:52.139
Um, I did I did wonder that myself, and I got my complete history

928
00:46:52.139 --> 00:46:57.000
out, and all all it says about casting Harris was, there was a

929
00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:00.719
unit soldier in the script, and when Harris was cast in Santara

930
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:04.260
and experiment, he was cast in turn left at the same time.

931
00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:09.780
So I think I think possibly he was casting the role before

932
00:47:09.780 --> 00:47:13.920
Christian Cook recorded his performance because I think if it had

933
00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:15.840
been after, they would have asked to get Christian Cook back

934
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:19.199
because, of course, he was more of an audience identification

935
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:21.599
figure in that story as Jenkins.

936
00:47:21.659 --> 00:47:24.780
And we could have had this sort of thing where Jenkins is alive in

937
00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:28.440
the parallel universe created when Donna turns right.

938
00:47:28.500 --> 00:47:32.039
And we're choosing to, maybe that would have been just an

939
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:33.000
additional thing.

940
00:47:33.059 --> 00:47:35.039
But I just realised someone we haven't mentioned yet.

941
00:47:35.099 --> 00:47:37.380
Captain Aresa McGumbo.

942
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:38.039
Oh my goodness.

943
00:47:38.099 --> 00:47:39.719
Who is amazing.

944
00:47:39.900 --> 00:47:42.239
It's like, don't get me wrong.

945
00:47:42.300 --> 00:47:47.159
I love when Kate Stewart turns up later on, but I have to confess

946
00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:49.980
every unit story since then, since Planet of the Dead, I should

947
00:47:49.980 --> 00:47:50.159
say.

948
00:47:50.219 --> 00:47:51.840
It like, where's a reason my company?

949
00:47:51.900 --> 00:47:56.880
bring her back for Big Finish, Joe. Give her own spinoff series.

950
00:47:56.940 --> 00:47:59.340
I would love to, you know, I love her.

951
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:00.420
I think she's brilliant.

952
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:02.460
And again, just seeing her back.

953
00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:06.360
I mean, it just shows the love and care that was going into Doctor

954
00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:10.260
Who at that time of, That could just be another unit, Captain, but

955
00:48:10.260 --> 00:48:14.280
it, you know, Russell presumably wrote it as her and said, look

956
00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:15.420
try and get her back.

957
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:15.960
We want her back.

958
00:48:16.019 --> 00:48:17.219
I want that soldier back.

959
00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:19.860
I want Morgan Stern back from Smith and Jones, you know, want

960
00:48:19.860 --> 00:48:20.460
these people back.

961
00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:25.320
Because it's the world and it could be anybody else, but actually

962
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:28.079
by making it Morgan Stone, even if you don't remember him from

963
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:31.139
Smith and Jones, because it was, you know, what, a year ago, 2

964
00:48:31.139 --> 00:48:32.880
years ago, even if you don't necessarily particularly remember

965
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:33.179
him.

966
00:48:33.300 --> 00:48:36.300
When you actually, all it needs is one member of your family to be

967
00:48:36.300 --> 00:48:39.840
watching it go, oh, he was Martha's mate in Smith and Jones, and

968
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:41.880
the rest of the family are like, oh, that's really exciting.

969
00:48:41.940 --> 00:48:44.519
Um, you know, that's that, you know, even if you don't remember it

970
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:46.920
yourself, it creates this little buzz about it.

971
00:48:46.980 --> 00:48:52.019
Um, So yeah, no, very happy to see her back and would love to see

972
00:48:52.019 --> 00:48:52.440
her back again.

973
00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:54.179
I miss her.

974
00:48:58.679 --> 00:49:01.199
There's a couple of wolf moments.

975
00:49:01.260 --> 00:49:02.219
I think are brilliant.

976
00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:05.340
One is when he says, you're not going to make the world better by

977
00:49:05.340 --> 00:49:08.579
shouting at it, which literally sums up Donna Oval's character

978
00:49:08.579 --> 00:49:11.460
that Donna just shouts at things because she's constantly put down

979
00:49:11.460 --> 00:49:11.880
and angry.

980
00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:14.940
And when she's not shouting at the beginning of turn left, when

981
00:49:14.940 --> 00:49:16.980
she's having a great time with the doctor, it really shows.

982
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:20.099
And that's why I think Turner especially works with Donna because

983
00:49:20.099 --> 00:49:22.920
Rose and Martha already had hope before they met the doctor.

984
00:49:22.980 --> 00:49:26.460
They had an idolism before they met the doctor.

985
00:49:26.519 --> 00:49:27.659
Donna didn't.

986
00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:28.619
Donna had no hope.

987
00:49:28.679 --> 00:49:32.699
Her only hope was perhaps only a rich bloke, and that'd be my life

988
00:49:32.699 --> 00:49:33.179
sorted.

989
00:49:33.239 --> 00:49:37.440
Um, she had love and everything, but it was kind of battened down

990
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:37.800
behind.

991
00:49:37.860 --> 00:49:39.420
There's nothing else out there.

992
00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:41.760
So I'll just get on with it, marry a rich bloke and that's my life

993
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:42.239
sorted.

994
00:49:42.300 --> 00:49:45.840
Rose and Martha always had aspirations to do a little bit more in

995
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:46.139
life.

996
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:49.800
So actually, one of the reasons turn left is so heartbreaking is

997
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:53.340
because it's Donna, because we're seeing, we risk seeing her

998
00:49:53.340 --> 00:49:55.619
become who she was before.

999
00:49:55.679 --> 00:50:00.780
Um, which obviously then has repercussions into episodes time when

1000
00:50:00.780 --> 00:50:02.340
she has everything taken away from her.

1001
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:05.340
Turn left actually succeeds that because you sit there and goes

1002
00:50:05.340 --> 00:50:06.960
this is a woman who has gone on such a journey.

1003
00:50:07.019 --> 00:50:10.139
That woman who is having so much joy at the beginning of turn

1004
00:50:10.139 --> 00:50:10.619
left.

1005
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:15.179
To see that woman become who she was before, quite this quite cold

1006
00:50:15.179 --> 00:50:16.440
selfish person before.

1007
00:50:16.500 --> 00:50:21.780
Um, but actually, I think, What's amazing, and I never noticed it

1008
00:50:21.780 --> 00:50:28.019
before, but I noticed its day is uh, Donna. goes to Rose, because

1009
00:50:28.019 --> 00:50:30.000
Rose says, you know, you will come back to me.

1010
00:50:30.059 --> 00:50:32.639
And Donna has already sorts, Rose, which is great.

1011
00:50:32.699 --> 00:50:36.000
Donna is already on a bit of a journey and going, that woman, who

1012
00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:38.880
I don't know, is going to be around here somewhere when the Atmos

1013
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:39.420
stuff happens.

1014
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:43.860
So she finds Rose and then Rose says to her, you'll come back to

1015
00:50:43.860 --> 00:50:45.360
me and Donna does go back to her.

1016
00:50:45.420 --> 00:50:50.039
And when I 1st watched it, I thought it was because Will says, oh

1017
00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:51.000
all the stars are going out.

1018
00:50:51.059 --> 00:50:52.320
I can't see the stars anymore.

1019
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:54.360
And that's what makes Donna go to roads.

1020
00:50:54.420 --> 00:50:57.119
But actually there's a moment before that, which is brilliant.

1021
00:50:57.179 --> 00:50:59.039
I'd never picked up before and it's not overplayed.

1022
00:50:59.099 --> 00:51:04.019
But Donna says something, um, about her being selfish or something

1023
00:51:04.019 --> 00:51:04.500
like that.

1024
00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:07.500
Wolf doesn't answer because he's distracted by the stars.

1025
00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:10.019
And Donna says, you're meant to tell me I'm not like that.

1026
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:12.360
And Wilf doesn't comfort her.

1027
00:51:12.420 --> 00:51:16.619
And it's such a small moment, but it shows just how Will whose

1028
00:51:16.619 --> 00:51:20.699
automatic response is to comfort Donna and hide her and protect

1029
00:51:20.699 --> 00:51:20.940
her.

1030
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:26.280
At that moment, even Wolf, doesn't tear around to Donner and go, oh

1031
00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:26.880
everything's fine.

1032
00:51:26.940 --> 00:51:30.780
Will's just like, no time for your emotional journey right now

1033
00:51:30.780 --> 00:51:32.159
Donna, the stars are going out.

1034
00:51:32.219 --> 00:51:34.079
I think that's part of the reason.

1035
00:51:34.139 --> 00:51:37.199
For me anyway, now I've seen it again, just watching it again.

1036
00:51:37.260 --> 00:51:41.039
I've gone in my head, I'm like, that's the reason Donna goes and

1037
00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:43.139
finds Rose because her home grandfather.

1038
00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:45.119
She was expecting it from her mum.

1039
00:51:45.179 --> 00:51:46.980
When her mum says, yes, I am disappointed in you.

1040
00:51:47.099 --> 00:51:49.199
She knew that would come one day from Sylvia.

1041
00:51:49.260 --> 00:51:51.539
She would never expect Wolf to turn his back on her.

1042
00:51:51.599 --> 00:51:54.059
And it's underplayed, so it's not as brutal.

1043
00:51:54.119 --> 00:51:58.260
But it's the 1st time, she literally says, you're not, you're

1044
00:51:58.260 --> 00:51:59.940
meant to comfort me here and he doesn't.

1045
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:01.980
He just talks about the stars going out.

1046
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:04.260
And I think that's part of the reason she goes to Rose because

1047
00:52:04.260 --> 00:52:07.260
she's just like, if my grandad isn't going to comfort me, the

1048
00:52:07.260 --> 00:52:08.400
world is completely broken.

1049
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:12.539
There's that thing where the script itself addresses Donna's

1050
00:52:12.539 --> 00:52:18.900
character, by having Rose tell Donna, why the doctor travelled

1051
00:52:18.900 --> 00:52:19.260
with her.

1052
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:24.000
And it's he thinks you're brilliant and she comes back with I'm

1053
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:24.539
useless.

1054
00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:25.739
No, I'm useless.

1055
00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:31.139
And it's not that travelling with a doctor has made her a better

1056
00:52:31.139 --> 00:52:31.619
person.

1057
00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:34.800
I don't think because right from partners in crime.

1058
00:52:34.860 --> 00:52:38.280
She's immediately angry about what happens to Stacy.

1059
00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:45.119
And then in Fires of Pompeii, she is so compassionate, you know

1060
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:47.280
and Planet of the Ode, over and over again.

1061
00:52:47.340 --> 00:52:50.280
Like the big thing, the big surprise about Donna is a regular

1062
00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:56.039
character is how immediately compassionate she is and how much she

1063
00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:57.059
cares about other people.

1064
00:52:57.420 --> 00:53:03.000
But she kind of afford to be like that while Sylvia's at her and

1065
00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:06.239
while everyone's telling her how useless she is.

1066
00:53:06.300 --> 00:53:09.059
And the moment she's with the doctor, the doctor thinks she's

1067
00:53:09.059 --> 00:53:11.400
brilliant and that's what she's like.

1068
00:53:11.460 --> 00:53:16.559
And having seen that over the last few episodes, snapping back to

1069
00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:20.460
a version of Donna, who calls Rocco Mussolini and who shouts at

1070
00:53:20.460 --> 00:53:21.000
that woman.

1071
00:53:21.059 --> 00:53:26.639
Oh, the woman in the street in Leeds, who is yelling at them.

1072
00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:28.980
Fair of Duckwood.

1073
00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:30.539
Yes, yeah, that's right.

1074
00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:34.980
But again, just that tiny moment, she's yelling because the people

1075
00:53:34.980 --> 00:53:38.460
at number 29 missed a single mortgage payment and they've been

1076
00:53:38.460 --> 00:53:41.880
carted off to what, dead as prison or something or thrown out onto

1077
00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:42.900
the street to be homeless.

1078
00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:47.039
Just one line of just sort of tiny world building that, you know

1079
00:53:47.039 --> 00:53:50.340
the world is just much worse than you thought it was.

1080
00:53:51.239 --> 00:53:54.480
Something that occurred to me though, watching that.

1081
00:53:54.539 --> 00:53:58.019
You're absolutely right in terms of Donna, but Vera Duckworth

1082
00:53:58.019 --> 00:54:01.079
shouting about how the nice family at number 29 got kicked out.

1083
00:54:01.139 --> 00:54:03.539
They're not living in your house, are they, Vera?

1084
00:54:03.599 --> 00:54:04.980
You haven't taken them in.

1085
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:08.400
Because, but she's being, Vera is being, I don't want southerners

1086
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:09.000
living here.

1087
00:54:09.059 --> 00:54:11.159
You know, that's her point.

1088
00:54:11.219 --> 00:54:14.219
You know, I genuinely think that's the point of the scene is it's

1089
00:54:14.219 --> 00:54:14.579
her going.

1090
00:54:14.639 --> 00:54:17.400
Yeah, obviously it's just not looking after her neighbours who've

1091
00:54:17.400 --> 00:54:20.760
been kicked out, but she's also going, I don't want you lot coming

1092
00:54:20.760 --> 00:54:24.300
here in the way that Donald then says, you're Mussolini, and in

1093
00:54:24.300 --> 00:54:27.659
the way that they get, it's about tribalism, that we all, you know

1094
00:54:27.659 --> 00:54:29.460
that is except, you know, you see a lot in the world.

1095
00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:32.159
But again, I think, yes, Donna has that compassion.

1096
00:54:32.219 --> 00:54:37.139
But, Because real life is hard and I think, you know, real life is

1097
00:54:37.139 --> 00:54:37.440
hard.

1098
00:54:37.500 --> 00:54:38.880
You don't get to show that compassion.

1099
00:54:38.940 --> 00:54:41.880
Donna's concerns before she meets the doctor are.

1100
00:54:41.940 --> 00:54:43.320
I've got to find a job.

1101
00:54:43.380 --> 00:54:44.639
I've got to not live with my mum.

1102
00:54:44.699 --> 00:54:45.659
I've got to find a job.

1103
00:54:45.719 --> 00:54:49.260
And the way she sees it is the only way she can do it is by

1104
00:54:49.260 --> 00:54:49.980
finding a man.

1105
00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:55.800
Um, and Again, a bit like what we talked about earlier on with, you

1106
00:54:55.800 --> 00:54:59.340
know, talking about the whole punch while 2000 people die on the

1107
00:54:59.340 --> 00:54:59.579
moon.

1108
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:03.059
It's that's what life is like.

1109
00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:05.099
You have to get on with your own life.

1110
00:55:05.159 --> 00:55:07.800
We all have to be quite selfish and get on with our own lives

1111
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:10.739
because if you show, it's much easier for Donna and the doctor to

1112
00:55:10.739 --> 00:55:11.340
show compassion.

1113
00:55:11.400 --> 00:55:13.019
Donner to show compassion in Pompeii.

1114
00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:16.019
Because she's going to fly away at the end of it.

1115
00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:17.820
She's not trying to pay a mortgage.

1116
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:20.760
She's not, you know, wondering where her next meal is coming from

1117
00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:22.619
or how she can pay her next mortgage payment.

1118
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:24.780
I did think Russell explores all that stuff.

1119
00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:29.039
I think it's all there under the skin of just what a complicated

1120
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:30.360
world we live in.

1121
00:55:31.019 --> 00:55:36.300
Well, it's, I mean, that's very true and not just, you know, when

1122
00:55:36.300 --> 00:55:41.159
there is world disaster or the Titanic has crashed into Buckingham

1123
00:55:41.159 --> 00:55:45.119
Palace, most people are only 2 or 3 paycheques away from poverty.

1124
00:55:45.179 --> 00:55:45.780
Yeah.

1125
00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:47.400
Exactly.

1126
00:55:47.460 --> 00:55:50.820
Like, if you lose your job and you cannot get your job and you

1127
00:55:50.820 --> 00:55:55.139
don't have a support network, you're on the street, certainly in

1128
00:55:55.139 --> 00:56:00.480
Australia and in the UK, within weeks, if you cannot find work.

1129
00:56:00.539 --> 00:56:03.900
Yeah, I mean, it's very unlikely, I will ever, ever get a mortgage

1130
00:56:03.900 --> 00:56:06.719
because I've not got a regular income because of my job being what

1131
00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:07.019
it is.

1132
00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:11.639
You know, Couple of twists in my life, I could be out on the

1133
00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:12.960
street quite easily.

1134
00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:13.500
It could happen.

1135
00:56:13.500 --> 00:56:15.659
And I think, you know, that the turn left is saying that all the

1136
00:56:15.659 --> 00:56:18.179
way through is going, Just think about other people.

1137
00:56:18.239 --> 00:56:20.760
You know, because it could be you.

1138
00:56:47.820 --> 00:56:50.340
Well, there, listen, that's all we have time for this week.

1139
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:53.880
We'll be back next week for an emotional reunion with everyone

1140
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:57.960
we've ever met, plus Daleks in the stolen Earth.

1141
00:56:58.019 --> 00:57:01.860
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1142
00:57:01.860 --> 00:57:04.800
and you can keep up with us at flights for entirety on Facebook

1143
00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:07.739
add FTE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website

1144
00:57:07.739 --> 00:57:10.500
FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other

1145
00:57:10.500 --> 00:57:13.860
podcasts, Bondfinger, and Jody into Terra.

1146
00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:16.139
Joe, where can people find you?

1147
00:57:16.619 --> 00:57:18.360
In the pub.

1148
00:57:18.420 --> 00:57:19.800
James said.

1149
00:57:19.860 --> 00:57:27.119
But no, you could buy me on Twitter, uh, uh, Joe Litster, J-O-E, L

1150
00:57:25.559 --> 00:57:28.980
I-D-S-D-E-R, um, that's about it.

1151
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:29.820
I'm on Instagram.

1152
00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:31.619
Um, yeah, if I me there.

1153
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:34.260
Do anything particularly interesting on Twitter.

1154
00:57:34.320 --> 00:57:37.199
It's used to do cat videos and things, but you know, I'm there.

1155
00:57:37.320 --> 00:57:41.639
So until next time when you reach the Ealing Road, remember to

1156
00:57:41.639 --> 00:57:42.360
turn left.

1157
00:57:42.420 --> 00:57:46.019
After all, there are much worse things than city executives with

1158
00:57:46.019 --> 00:57:47.579
money who need the practice.

1159
00:57:47.639 --> 00:57:49.800
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1160
00:57:49.860 --> 00:57:50.699
Good night.

1161
00:57:50.760 --> 00:57:51.480
Good night.

1162
00:57:51.539 --> 00:57:51.900
Good night.

1163
00:57:55.019 --> 00:57:58.739
That was Flight for Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan

1164
00:57:58.739 --> 00:58:00.780
Jones, Joe Lidster, and James Selwood.

1165
00:58:00.840 --> 00:58:03.840
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane

1166
00:58:03.840 --> 00:58:04.679
Orberg.

1167
00:58:04.739 --> 00:58:08.280
This episode, just one thing, was recorded on the 8th of March

1168
00:58:08.280 --> 00:58:11.099
2020 and released on the 24th of May.

1169
00:58:14.460 --> 00:58:18.599
You know, when Billy Piper told me I had to run into a truck to

1170
00:58:18.599 --> 00:58:21.179
save the timeline, I just told her to sod off.

1171
00:58:21.239 --> 00:58:25.559
That was 2016 and it turns out that since then, everything's been

1172
00:58:25.559 --> 00:58:26.159
just fine.

1173
00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:30.119
That's it on that note.

1174
00:58:30.179 --> 00:58:31.559
Yes, for charity.

1175
00:58:31.980 --> 00:58:34.980
We're all going to die in poverty.

1176
00:58:35.039 --> 00:58:35.699
I know.

1177
00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:36.719
All right.

1178
00:58:41.099 --> 00:58:42.659
All right.

1179
00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:44.099
Thank you so much.

1180
00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:46.260
That has been just like really something.

1181
00:58:46.320 --> 00:58:47.159
That's been amazing.

1182
00:58:47.219 --> 00:58:51.360
So, and just having that kind of having a writer's insight into

1183
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:52.380
character sort of thing.

1184
00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:53.820
That's been really true.

1185
00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:54.420
Yes, thank you.

1186
00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:54.780
Thank you.

1187
00:58:54.840 --> 00:58:58.079
I'm so glad that we spent that episode talking about Sylvia and

1188
00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:05.099
Donna mostly and less about, you know, time Beatles and Donna's

1189
00:59:05.099 --> 00:59:05.940
time anorak.

1190
00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:12.420
Yeah, Rod asked me if I owned the official Time Beetle backpack

1191
00:59:12.420 --> 00:59:13.920
and I had to tell them they didn't make one.

1192
00:59:13.980 --> 00:59:15.239
And he's like, I was actually being serious.

1193
00:59:15.300 --> 00:59:17.340
What do you mean they didn't make the time people?

1194
00:59:17.400 --> 00:59:18.960
I'm amazed they didn't make a time.

1195
00:59:19.019 --> 00:59:21.000
Oh, wait a minute, it wasn't Moffat's Doctor Who.

1196
00:59:21.059 --> 00:59:21.780
No, no.

1197
00:59:21.780 --> 00:59:24.960
I mean, I'd tell you, also, I just thought, one of my favourite

1198
00:59:24.960 --> 00:59:28.800
moments is, and again, it's what Russell does so brilliantly is

1199
00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:32.880
when Donna does get sent back, and she's in the wrong place, and

1200
00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:36.599
she realises she's half a mile away, and she's like, oh, the stake

1201
00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:37.559
I'm half a mile away.

1202
00:59:37.619 --> 00:59:39.059
That be my reaction.

1203
00:59:39.119 --> 00:59:42.539
My reaction would be, fine, I'll save the universe, old kill

1204
00:59:42.539 --> 00:59:43.139
myself.

1205
00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:45.780
You want me to throw myself into a truck to save the universe?

1206
00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:46.500
Absolutely.

1207
00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:47.579
I'm half a mile away.

1208
00:59:47.639 --> 00:59:50.099
I need to run half a mile to make this.

1209
00:59:50.159 --> 00:59:51.840
No, no, no.

1210
00:59:52.260 --> 00:59:56.519
It's kind of reminiscent of the whole, the ending of the hand of

1211
00:59:56.519 --> 00:59:57.119
fear.

1212
00:59:57.179 --> 01:00:00.360
It's like, this isn't Croydon.

1213
01:00:00.420 --> 01:00:02.099
Can you get anything wrong?