WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:11:02

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Hello, dear listener and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast that wouldn't even be mildly surprised

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by a sudden Dalek invasion right now.

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Bring it on 2020.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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I'm pizza.

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And I'm Todd.

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Well, it's the end of the world, which is now an honoured

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tradition at this time of year, but it's the end of the world like

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you've never seen it before.

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Every spinoff, every companion, and nearly every mum turn up to

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say goodbye to David Tennant's doctor 18 months too early.

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It's an all singing, all dancing apocalyptic extravaganza.

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It's the stolen earth.

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So, we hit Earth running.

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We've come straight from the end of the previous episode, and we

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land in a street where the, what, the last ever milkman in Britain

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is delivering milk.

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It's milk delivered these days.

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Cotton.

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I think it's very definitely, you know, just an attempt to do sort

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of suburban normality, but all I could think of was John Pertley

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driving the float for his old dad.

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I think Russell missed a Mr. Comeback there for all Jones the

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Hill.

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I just got survival.

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I was expecting a Kitling to kidnap that Norman at any second.

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Yes, of course.

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I'd forgotten the milkman in survival.

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I think that this is a really, really well structured scene.

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I think it's brilliant.

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I mean, the entire precredit sequence is just, I mean, could you

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ask for anything more perfect than that?

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Yeah.

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So it starts with the milkman?

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And then we get, you know, the doctor and Donna arriving, we get

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earth disappearing from underneath them, and then we get these

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sort of 2 plot threads, 3 plot threads, don't we?

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The 2 spinoffs and Martha.

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Martha starts it off.

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Yeah.

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And then we go to Captain Jack and and them in Torchwood, then to

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Sarah Jane, and then back to Wilfrid and Sylvia.

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They always want the women.

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Yep.

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And then Rose with her big gun.

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I mean, and she gets to look up at the sky and we get to see, you

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know, gazillion planets and it's the Marvel's crossover event we

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never knew we wanted or needed, you know?

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It's incredible.

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It is sort of the, it's the story of Doctor Who, isn't it?

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It's Doctor Who, the spinoffs, and Martha.

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Don't worry, big things will make one for her soon.

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Well, I think the amazingly clever thing about it is that it's

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circular, that every one of the little inset scenes have a

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character being encouraged to look at the sky, but we don't get to

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see what's in the sky until Rose turns up and we see it from the

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milkman's point of view.

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So we start an end on the milkman and on that massive reveal, which

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is just, it's bonkers.

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I mean, it is unbelievable, you know, to have the earth moved out

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of position.

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I mean, there's a lot of competition.

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You know, every single series finale has been huge and has had to

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sort of outdo the previous one.

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And I think at the time people expressed sort of reservations

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about that or thought it was tiresome or whatever, but I'm

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absolutely on board with it.

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You know, make it huge and and they do.

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It's it's mental.

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It's fantastic.

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It's the Doctor Who cinematic universe coming together.

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And Russell's ahead of his time on this.

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He's sort of assembled the whole team and he throws in everything

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else.

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He throws in.

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We've got Harriet Jones and Davros and the Daleks and the most

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seismic event in the Doctor Who universe, which is a

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regeneration.

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We've got all that to come in this episode.

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And you know it's special just from the pre-credits teaser and

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from those endless names swooping past in the opening titles.

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It's wildly confident.

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And I think only a series and a writer at the top of their game

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could even attempt to pull this off.

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I agree, and over the course of these 2 episodes, Every single

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semi-regular character is basically either in it or name checked.

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Yeah.

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And the fact it says volumes, the fact that they can get back all

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these people back to the show and they're willing to come back and

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do these episodes when obviously some of them have very busy

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schedules.

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So I think it's amazing.

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Yes, and this show made stars of these people.

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That's why they're busy.

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Well, also, I mean, Rose is almost not in it.

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They had scheduling issues.

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They had to move the schedule about quite a lot because she was on

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her honeymoon when this was due to be filmed.

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And they almost had to rewrite her out of it.

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In fact, I think she got married while Russell was writing one of

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these episodes and Russell actually bailed on her wedding because

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the writing of it was so sort of enormously complex and Russell

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was reaching the end of 4 years of just an incredible amount of

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work.

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And he got sick as well.

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So, yeah, he skipped out of the wedding and something else as

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well.

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Like a holiday with his husband or something?

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Like he had to cancel everything like at the last minute to get

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this finished.

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Do you know, I'll be a little bit controversial and say that I

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think if Rose had been written out of this, it might have made it

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a better story, and that's not a judgement.

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That's no judgement on Billy at all.

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I love Rose.

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I love Billy and it's great to see them back.

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But Rose's story was in some ways completed, and I think this

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diminishes the character a little bit.

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I think we'll get onto that next week because I agree with you a

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little bit, but I do like the fact that in this episode, Rose is

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sidelined, and she discovers that since she's gone, the doctor has

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built up this huge network of people who, you know, love him and

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care about him, and she's on the outer.

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That Zoom call that they have.

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Her reaction to Martha.

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Who are you?

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Well, it's good to see that she hasn't changed a tune.

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She's still a stroppy little silk-centered so-and-so.

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But it's all done with humour and I think that's so great, is that

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is that she, she is building up this antagonism towards Martha in

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a lot of the things that she says.

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So I think, um, who she, you know, former companion to the doctor

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or so was I, like things like that.

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I think there's a payoff next week when they do finally meet.

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Yeah.

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And this episode is just, I'm just going to put on the table now.

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These three, the 3 episodes, this, the 3rd episode in a row, which

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I would give more than 10 out of 10 to, like from midnight, turn

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left in this, are just, I don't think they're surpassed in classic

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or new who.

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I was talking 10.2, 10.2, did you turn it up to 11.?

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No, no, it's 11 out of 10.

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These 3 episodes, honestly, that's how I feel.

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And I just think it's just extraordinary.

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All the buildup through this, then you're wanting rose to meet.

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Obviously, meet the doctor.

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You know that's not going to happen until, you know, the bitter

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end.

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Oh, it's just the anticipation.

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And everybody's slowly meeting each other.

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Yeah.

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Well, that was always the thing that we fantasised about as kids

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as well.

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And I think there were new adventures that kind of touched on this

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the idea that there were people on earth, you know, living at the

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same time, who had travelled with the doctor, and we imagine them

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kind of meeting one another.

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And here it gets to happen, you know, that because it's modern TV

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rather than classic Doctor Who, where such a thing just would

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never have been possible.

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Like, I guess we get the brigadier back in Morden Undead.

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But by then, sort of Doctor Who's eating itself a bit.

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Here you have people who are invited back for sort of guest roles

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and we love it.

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We love it.

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And the thing that Russell has done.

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The thing, the big triumph of these 4 years is to take a show that

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fights against the creation of a coherent world, a show where

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every episode is said in a different time and place, where every

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episode has a different tone.

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And it creates a coherent world, not by bringing the cybermen back

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to do their greatest hits or by constantly referencing previous

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stories, but by having these characters.

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You know, a whole cast of characters.

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The doctor has a group of friends who are all really well drawn

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who we really like.

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Um, and we get to see them slowly coming together in his absence.

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And in a way, it's like the Christmas invasion only on a small

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scale because, you know, the Christmas invasion sidelines the

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doctor and relies on the fact that we have Harriet Jones and

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Jackie and Mickey and Rose and that we love them and care about

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them and enjoy watching them.

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And we're willing to wait for the doctor to turn up.

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And so, you know, the doctor's role in this episode is really sort

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of fairly minimal, isn't it?

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It was a kind of journey to the shadow proclamation, which is

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maybe the least successful part of the episode.

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Yeah, I think he had a much, much bigger scale thing in mind for

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the shadow proclamation.

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To me, like he, when I was reading the writer's tale, the list

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goes on and on and on.

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He wanted to bring back every CG monster they'd ever created and

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get all the prosthetics out as well.

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Um, and he was going to bring back Baby Margaret Slithine.

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So there is actually a big cartoon that he does of his version of

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the shadow proclamation because he's a very skilled cartoonist.

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And so he draws that version of the shadow proclamation and it's

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included in the writer's tale.

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It's really great.

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And so that was going to be huge and it does end up being a little

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bit crab.

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Um, well, yeah, yeah, I would agree that it, because what you get

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you should get, the woman with the red eyes and her offsider who

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likes to have visions of the future or a trope that he uses next

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year where everybody can talk about what's going to happen to a

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certain character or situations, and then you've got the Judune in

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the background, and you know, what's the, what's the name of the

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woman in charge of the shadow proclamation?

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I think her name is Madge Proclamation?

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I think her name is the Shadow Architect.

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No, she's Magic Proclamation.

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Otherwise known as frizzy white hair, what's her name?

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From a long line of matches.

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Madge is actually not so bad.

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And I do enjoy that scene where the dog's not good either.

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No, no.

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But that scene where the doctor and Donna, and particularly Donna

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work out what's going on.

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So they've detected like 24 missing planets or 23 missing

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planets.

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And Donna, because she's clever, remember, works out, you know

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what the missing planets are.

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And then we see the doctor work out what they're for.

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And her line, her line about I'm a human and I'm just as important

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as a time lord is super important to the plot as well.

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No, I like all the, the, all the froth. should I say, like, you

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know, if you're having copy, all the, all the icing, like, you

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know, talking about all these planets that we've seen, like, or

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not seeing like the adipose breeding planet, the Lost Moon of

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Poosh.

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They talk about Calufrax Minor.

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Yeah, I mean, that's just wonderful.

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And then, you know, relating things to the bees.

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And so although the doctor is somewhat obviously sidelined, um, A

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lot of the dialogue I actually really enjoy in those scenes, like

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there's sprinkling of things that just make you smile or there's

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payoff, you know?

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Yeah, even if that woman at the end declares that she's, that they

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have, they're going to declare, well, right across the universe

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and then what does she do?

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Just sit there and do nothing because they never turn up.

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Yeah, keep your frizzy white hair on, match.

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I actually think that that's the doctor rejecting the role that he

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had in the time war that we're about to sort of see the time war

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start again and the doctor puts a stop to it.

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00:13:29.940 --> 00:13:32.039
Like he just says, nope, I'm not going to do that.

249
00:13:32.100 --> 00:13:36.960
And that's important for next episode, you know, the way that this

250
00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:41.820
story resolves itself, involves a rejection of that kind of thing

251
00:13:41.820 --> 00:13:43.259
but we're getting ahead of ourselves.

252
00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:45.779
And it's also not a grandstanding moment.

253
00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.779
So, the 10th doctor. just says, I'm just going to go over here

254
00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:49.200
now.

255
00:13:49.259 --> 00:13:50.879
And that's how he gets out of it.

256
00:13:51.539 --> 00:13:55.500
We also get Donna's side eye when the doctor speaks Jadoon.

257
00:13:55.559 --> 00:13:57.480
That, worth the price of entry alone.

258
00:13:58.139 --> 00:14:02.220
Let's see another... another wonderful comic moment.

259
00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:06.000
I think Doctor Who is at its best when, when you have, when it's

260
00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:10.620
so, there's so much comedy within so much action, you know, that

261
00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:13.740
is the joy of Doctor Who, unlike other things that take themselves

262
00:14:13.740 --> 00:14:18.059
so seriously, it's the comedy in these situations that are dire

263
00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:19.080
absolutely.

264
00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:22.860
And that's absolutely Russell's strength.

265
00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:27.179
He can just pivot between sort of drama and comedy and tragedy and

266
00:14:27.179 --> 00:14:28.860
farce just like that.

267
00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:32.220
He's so clever at it. he does it so well.

268
00:14:32.340 --> 00:14:36.840
And a lot of the reason that we love the characters is because

269
00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:38.100
they're funny.

270
00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:43.679
I think it may be the single biggest difference between the 3rd

271
00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:46.799
series and the 4th is that you have Martha, who's perfectly good

272
00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:49.679
character, but she doesn't bring a lot of comedy, whereas Donna

273
00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:51.899
does and it just elevates things slightly.

274
00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:52.799
Yeah.

275
00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:53.519
Yeah.

276
00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:05.940
So I think this story clearly has one aim.

277
00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:08.399
And that's just to be event television.

278
00:15:08.460 --> 00:15:11.399
Um, the point is that it's an event.

279
00:15:11.460 --> 00:15:14.639
It doesn't set out to be the best piece of doc whoever, regardless

280
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:16.440
of whether it turns out to be or not.

281
00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:21.299
The only equivalence I can think of in the history of the show are

282
00:15:21.299 --> 00:15:25.679
the 5 doctors and maybe the Dalek invasion of Earth, they set out

283
00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:27.600
to be events for the audience.

284
00:15:27.659 --> 00:15:32.519
And I think you could only do it at this point with the show like

285
00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:34.440
an apex of popularity.

286
00:15:34.500 --> 00:15:39.659
You need kind of an enthusiastic receptive audience to be able to

287
00:15:39.659 --> 00:15:40.980
deliver this to them.

288
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:43.440
You need them to be active participants.

289
00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:47.100
And an audience that has been sort of properly watching it for all

290
00:15:47.100 --> 00:15:50.820
of this time, or at least aware of it, even if you'd kind of

291
00:15:50.820 --> 00:15:55.080
dipped in and out, even if you weren't a committed fan, you would

292
00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:59.340
know about Rose and Martha and Donna, and they would have been on

293
00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:01.799
the telly and there are news stories about them.

294
00:16:01.860 --> 00:16:06.659
You've got Bernard Cribbons, you know, you've got mums, all of

295
00:16:06.659 --> 00:16:09.659
these minor characters that people remember, you know, Harriet

296
00:16:09.659 --> 00:16:13.320
Jones is huge in a Christmas special, which was watched by, you

297
00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:15.600
know, how many people, 10000000 people or whatever.

298
00:16:15.659 --> 00:16:17.700
You just can't do it otherwise.

299
00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:20.519
And if you compare it, I think the 5 doctors is the nearest

300
00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:21.299
equivalent.

301
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:25.559
And if you compare it to the 5 doctors, you know, Liz Shaw is in

302
00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:29.519
it or whatever and kind of like we love Liz Shaw, but frankly, who

303
00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:30.000
cares?

304
00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:36.960
Whereas this has earned the right to do all of this stuff.

305
00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:40.919
And all of the little kids who are watching Sarah Jane adventures

306
00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:44.820
get to see Luke and Sarah Jane, they get that, they get that

307
00:16:44.820 --> 00:16:48.840
moment, the 1st moment when it's made clear that Mr. Smith's

308
00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:53.279
fanfare is diagetic, that it can be heard by the people in the

309
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:56.639
room and isn't just added in post-production.

310
00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:59.220
It's so great.

311
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:00.360
It's okay.

312
00:17:00.419 --> 00:17:03.779
And the people who are watching Torchwood get to see, you know

313
00:17:03.779 --> 00:17:10.319
after that horrible, horrible finale where Tosh and Owen are

314
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:10.740
killed.

315
00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:16.079
Now you get them back in a sort of fun, silly Doctor Who story

316
00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:19.500
with Yanto doing jokes and all of that sort of thing.

317
00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:23.819
It's hilarious that you compare it to the 5 doctors because, like

318
00:17:23.819 --> 00:17:27.480
I mean, who would who would be the Richard Herndel character, like

319
00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:29.400
I kind of think, they could have got Billy Piper.

320
00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:31.259
Maybe they could have got the doctor's daughter back for that

321
00:17:31.259 --> 00:17:31.559
role.

322
00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:32.519
Do you know what I mean?

323
00:17:32.579 --> 00:17:33.839
That's true.

324
00:17:33.900 --> 00:17:37.259
Well, they could have just recast it with Sonya.

325
00:17:38.579 --> 00:17:42.720
I think the relationship with the audience is key to these

326
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:46.140
episodes, and you talk about sort of kids watching and having, you

327
00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:49.259
know, these kids would have had like action figures which they

328
00:17:49.259 --> 00:17:52.200
would have brought and they would have put characters together.

329
00:17:52.259 --> 00:17:56.220
They would have had Donna and Rose and Jack, having a scene

330
00:17:56.220 --> 00:17:59.339
together, or they would have had Rose hang out with Wilf and

331
00:17:59.339 --> 00:18:00.900
Sylvia, and we get all of that here.

332
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.119
We get that kind of mixing up for the characters.

333
00:18:03.180 --> 00:18:08.519
Well, Russell actually described his creative process with this

334
00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:13.859
story as, I wanted this to be something the kids would play in the

335
00:18:13.859 --> 00:18:14.519
playground.

336
00:18:14.579 --> 00:18:20.160
I wanted this to be a crossover that a child would make with their

337
00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:20.880
action figures.

338
00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:22.619
Did he say that?

339
00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:23.880
Oh, okay, I haven't read that.

340
00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:25.259
But yeah, no, you definitely get that.

341
00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:27.779
But all the characters get their moments.

342
00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:35.279
Like, having Liz Sladen react to exterminate first, I think, is

343
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:41.279
just marvellous, because it's for us classic fans, we know this

344
00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:44.700
but for the new people watching it as well.

345
00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:47.339
It's like, oh, she knows about them.

346
00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:48.240
Do you know what I mean?

347
00:18:48.299 --> 00:18:51.779
Like, it just ties in little plot points like that, you know?

348
00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:54.720
The doctor says someone tried to move the earth once before.

349
00:18:54.779 --> 00:18:59.039
Like, it's a throwaway line, but, you know, I thought it was Dalek

350
00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:03.059
invasion of earth, but Peter, you were saying before that you

351
00:19:03.059 --> 00:19:05.819
thought it was more the mysterious planet, like, you know?

352
00:19:05.940 --> 00:19:08.339
Well, that was the 1st thing that occurred to me.

353
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.619
I mean, it makes sense to be Daleks in context of the story.

354
00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:16.500
In fact, we get the Dalek music before the opening credits, before

355
00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:18.359
we know that the Daleks are involved.

356
00:19:18.420 --> 00:19:23.700
We get the Dalek music when we see the shot of the planets for the

357
00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:24.119
1st time.

358
00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:30.299
Let's talk about the Daleks because, I mean, this is the best that

359
00:19:30.299 --> 00:19:34.559
they've ever been, I think, and they haven't been as good as this

360
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:36.180
since then, ever.

361
00:19:36.299 --> 00:19:41.099
So you get Dalek sources, you know, attacking New York, flying

362
00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:42.960
down Broadway, you know.

363
00:19:43.019 --> 00:19:44.099
Exterminate, tortured.

364
00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:47.279
Were they fans?

365
00:19:47.339 --> 00:19:48.720
They're also fans.

366
00:19:48.779 --> 00:19:53.220
Russell wanted to destroy New York in one of the scripts.

367
00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:56.700
In one of the, in one of the drafts of the script, Russell was

368
00:19:56.700 --> 00:20:00.420
planning to destroy New York, but then went, maybe that'll stuff

369
00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:04.920
up um, series 5 for Moffatt.

370
00:20:04.980 --> 00:20:11.460
But also perhaps, given that this is 2008, it's perhaps not in the

371
00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:12.480
best possible taste.

372
00:20:12.539 --> 00:20:15.720
But you can see why they do it because he's already established

373
00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:19.500
that New York is a city that gets rebuilt and rebuilt and rebuilt

374
00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:23.759
you know, and that exists as a kind of symbol of humanity for

375
00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:25.140
1000000000s of years.

376
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:28.200
So you can sort of tell that he's toying with it and that's

377
00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:31.500
clearly why Martha's there because New York is important.

378
00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:35.160
Yeah, it's such a shame, however, that, like, you don't have

379
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:38.220
familiar unit characters there to be killed off, like that fool

380
00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:42.480
who's in charge of units back in the two-parter earlier in the

381
00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:42.720
season.

382
00:20:42.779 --> 00:20:44.640
I mean, Colonel Mace.

383
00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:47.400
Yeah, because...

384
00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:49.980
Deserve to be exterminated.

385
00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:53.160
Well, in fact, they get someone much better and much more

386
00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:57.420
interesting to play the lead in unit and that scene with Martha

387
00:20:57.420 --> 00:20:59.819
where she's on the phone to Jack.

388
00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:00.779
It's just wonderful.

389
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:01.920
She's on the phone to Jack.

390
00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:04.019
She's been in Torchwood for a few episodes.

391
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:07.859
He makes a sort of sly reference, voice of a nightingale, is a

392
00:21:07.859 --> 00:21:12.960
reference to series 2 of Torchwood, where she does, what, 3

393
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:13.500
episodes?

394
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:18.299
And having him talk to her while she's sort of making this

395
00:21:18.299 --> 00:21:22.740
decision, having general, whatever his name is, kind of, say, you

396
00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:26.039
answer to me, you don't answer to torchwood, having Jack begging

397
00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:27.779
her not to use the indigo project.

398
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:29.039
All of that stuff.

399
00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:32.640
There's such a scale to it and it is just what we would have

400
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:35.819
wished would happen. you know, has that got to be a joke of

401
00:21:35.819 --> 00:21:38.819
Russell's calling it the indigo project because it was salvaged

402
00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:40.440
from Santaran hardware.

403
00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:44.039
And for some inexplicable reason, that 2 potter is bathed in

404
00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:45.000
purple light.

405
00:21:45.420 --> 00:21:47.519
That was deliberate, yes.

406
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:53.160
I think it's amazing having the Daleks involved in seeing

407
00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:56.880
everyone's reaction to them because it's a reminder of just how

408
00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:00.000
woven into the fabric of Doctor Who that the Daleks are.

409
00:22:00.059 --> 00:22:02.700
So Sarah was there at their creation.

410
00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:05.039
Jack was killed by them.

411
00:22:05.099 --> 00:22:09.000
Martha's thinking back to her terrifying encounter with a dalek

412
00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:10.619
kloac or in a pinstripe suit.

413
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:15.900
The individual reactions to the Dalek voice are superb because

414
00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:17.460
they're the audience reaction.

415
00:22:17.579 --> 00:22:20.940
It's every time you have a 1st night with the Daleks and the old

416
00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:21.359
series.

417
00:22:21.420 --> 00:22:24.420
It's every time you know that they're coming back for a season

418
00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:25.859
finale in the new series.

419
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:26.940
Yeah.

420
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.819
People were complaining at the time that there were too many

421
00:22:29.819 --> 00:22:30.539
Daleks.

422
00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:34.259
We have Daleks in 3 out of 4 of Russell series finales.

423
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:36.839
And I just kind of think that's like saying like too much

424
00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:40.740
chocolate or, you know, like too many martinis.

425
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:41.579
It's absurd.

426
00:22:41.700 --> 00:22:43.500
You know, you're watching Doctor Who.

427
00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:44.759
There's daleks in it.

428
00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:48.539
Remember those long stretches where we had no Daleks at all.

429
00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:52.680
And sure, you know, that allowed people to explore and do other

430
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:55.680
things, but the show hasn't been short of creativity for the last

431
00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:56.279
4 years.

432
00:22:56.339 --> 00:22:59.819
And the Daleks here are magnificent.

433
00:22:59.819 --> 00:23:03.420
And they take so many cues from Dalek Invasion of Earth, don't

434
00:23:03.420 --> 00:23:03.660
they?

435
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:05.039
Even catchphrases.

436
00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:06.839
The descendants.

437
00:23:06.900 --> 00:23:11.519
Yes, the males, the females, the descendants, you know, we are the

438
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:12.480
masters of earth.

439
00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:18.599
All of that stuff. just classic 60s Daleks only on a massive

440
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:19.140
budget.

441
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:20.039
It's so good.

442
00:23:20.099 --> 00:23:24.059
And on that level, I mean, the most meta that the story could

443
00:23:24.059 --> 00:23:28.680
possibly be, having Wilf fighting the Daleks after having fought

444
00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:30.839
them on the big screen in the 60s.

445
00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:34.500
You know that was actually a suggestion.

446
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:40.859
The paint gun scene was a suggestion by Bernard Cribben's to

447
00:23:40.859 --> 00:23:45.420
Russell. saying, you know, I think would be great if I got to

448
00:23:45.420 --> 00:23:49.079
shoot a Dalek because there was a reference, like he wanted a

449
00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:52.380
reference to his original story.

450
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:57.119
And then he ad-lived that line about swapping the BFG with Rose as

451
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:57.359
well.

452
00:23:57.779 --> 00:24:01.319
But also my vision is not impaired.

453
00:24:01.380 --> 00:24:03.480
Yes, so good.

454
00:24:03.539 --> 00:24:05.279
So brilliant.

455
00:24:05.339 --> 00:24:08.640
And even just the look of it, because you think he's he's done it

456
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:12.059
and then, you know, the paint sort of bubbles off and starts sort

457
00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:12.779
of dropping away.

458
00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:14.039
Like it just looks so good.

459
00:24:14.099 --> 00:24:16.019
It's the garlic's reactions.

460
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:17.880
It's their relationships with each character.

461
00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:19.019
Even Harriet Jones.

462
00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:22.319
They have a relationship with Harriet Jones, former PM.

463
00:24:22.380 --> 00:24:23.940
Yes, we know who you are.

464
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:28.019
I must have written that at 3 o'clock in the morning, chortling

465
00:24:28.019 --> 00:24:29.160
away to himself.

466
00:24:30.059 --> 00:24:35.039
And they, there's, there is a sort of slight crap homespunness to

467
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:35.700
the Daleks.

468
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:40.140
They're definitely aliens conceived of in the 1960s by Terry

469
00:24:40.140 --> 00:24:40.680
Nation.

470
00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:43.019
And the show doesn't hide away from that.

471
00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:48.420
You know, Dalek in series one, tried to create them, recreate them

472
00:24:48.420 --> 00:24:51.599
as a credible threat, you know, as something really, truly

473
00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:52.319
terrifying.

474
00:24:52.380 --> 00:24:56.579
And so the script upgrades the Daleks there.

475
00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:02.160
But once you have sort of 200 ships and 1000s of Daleks, they can

476
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:05.640
afford to be a bit cheesy and sort of lean into the show's

477
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:06.000
history.

478
00:25:06.059 --> 00:25:07.200
And I just think it's wonderful.

479
00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:10.859
Dialects do not accept human apologies.

480
00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:13.380
You know, it's so good.

481
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:15.480
And attack pattern seven.

482
00:25:15.539 --> 00:25:17.220
Remember Dialect Attack pattern 7?

483
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:20.160
There's that family that refuses to stay out on the street that

484
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:24.000
wants to go back into the house and the guy throws a brick and the

485
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:28.380
family all goes inside and they go Dalek attack pattern 7.

486
00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:32.279
And Dalek Attack Patent 7 is clearly just 3 Dalek standing in a

487
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:32.519
line.

488
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:37.740
And then and then they blow up the house.

489
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:39.420
And it's so great.

490
00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:41.160
It's so superb.

491
00:25:41.220 --> 00:25:44.640
But I like the fact that he adds a new element to it, which, of

492
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:48.059
course, is the creator, Davros.

493
00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:51.420
And I have to wonder at the time, what knew who fans actually

494
00:25:51.420 --> 00:25:54.359
thought of the person in the shadows, what is this person in the

495
00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:56.880
shadows and then actually seeing it for the 1st time, you know

496
00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:59.099
with no reference really to it.

497
00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:02.160
For us, it's like, you know, we know who that is. and 0 my

498
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:03.359
goodness, what a performance.

499
00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:08.400
But with no previous reference isn't an element that adds to the

500
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:11.039
story for people who've only known knew who.

501
00:26:11.099 --> 00:26:12.539
It's just a question.

502
00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:19.140
So there's a, there's an oblique reference to Davros in Dalek, and

503
00:26:19.140 --> 00:26:23.579
I think there's an oblique reference in the Dalek 2 parter in

504
00:26:23.579 --> 00:26:28.079
series 3 as well, to, you know, them having a creator and so on.

505
00:26:28.140 --> 00:26:31.019
And so maybe knew who people have that.

506
00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:34.680
But remember that Davros, I think, is huge.

507
00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:41.339
He's one of the mythic things that Classic Doctor Who created.

508
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.000
He's rooted in popular culture, along with the Daleks, the Sidemen

509
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:45.660
and the Master.

510
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.539
It's those 3 and Davros from the original series.

511
00:26:48.660 --> 00:26:50.640
And we've said this before.

512
00:26:50.700 --> 00:26:55.740
He introduces Russell reintroduces the Daleks in series one, the

513
00:26:55.740 --> 00:27:01.140
Cybermen in series 2, the Master in series 3, and Davros in series

514
00:27:01.140 --> 00:27:01.380
4.

515
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:06.059
And so he brings to New Who all of that mythology.

516
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:07.200
Not all at once.

517
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:10.440
It's not the opening speech of the TV movie.

518
00:27:10.500 --> 00:27:17.519
He holds his fire and brings them out in order. so that knew who

519
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:20.279
owns it as much as we do.

520
00:27:20.339 --> 00:27:23.819
I did just question at the time whether certain people would

521
00:27:23.819 --> 00:27:25.200
actually know what that is.

522
00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:27.480
You know, obviously there's so much other fanfare going on.

523
00:27:27.539 --> 00:27:29.940
It doesn't matter if one element doesn't quite work for somebody

524
00:27:29.940 --> 00:27:32.819
but it's just something that has always been a question in my

525
00:27:32.819 --> 00:27:33.599
mind.

526
00:27:34.019 --> 00:27:39.119
I think it, the dialogue makes it very clear eventually that, you

527
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:40.500
know, who Davros is.

528
00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:44.880
And so having him, this mysterious, shadowy, dalek like figure

529
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:47.519
with that fabulous music from Murray.

530
00:27:47.579 --> 00:27:50.759
Um, like I think that that works on its own terms.

531
00:27:51.059 --> 00:27:54.599
And he's very physically distinctive, I think, Davrell.

532
00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:57.180
So even if people hadn't watched the show and didn't really know

533
00:27:57.180 --> 00:27:59.339
who he was, they would recognise the image of him.

534
00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:00.839
I mean, he's not the macra.

535
00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:06.480
They, um, you know, they they were going to approach Terry Malloy

536
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:07.559
to return at one point.

537
00:28:10.259 --> 00:28:16.680
And also, they, they didn't, they didn't give him a name in the

538
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:19.980
well, they called him Dave Ross in the script.

539
00:28:20.099 --> 00:28:23.940
Yeah, they were calling him Dave, I think, on set, you know, just

540
00:28:23.940 --> 00:28:26.940
to sort of hide the fact that it was Stavrost coming back.

541
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:33.240
I think that Julian Bleach is the best Davros.

542
00:28:33.299 --> 00:28:34.559
Because.

543
00:28:34.619 --> 00:28:37.440
My cool issue is turning in his grave.

544
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:40.079
I think Michael Wisher is very good.

545
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:46.619
But the mask is nowhere near as good as the mask that bleach

546
00:28:46.619 --> 00:28:47.099
gets.

547
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:50.640
And so that means that Bleach gets to give like a proper

548
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:51.900
performance.

549
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:58.920
And what he nails is the 2 registers that Davros has, the sort of

550
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:06.420
quiet, thoughtful, menacing sort of register and the sort of huge

551
00:29:06.420 --> 00:29:08.519
shouty register as well.

552
00:29:08.579 --> 00:29:13.440
And because he's, he's got a better mask, we can see inside his

553
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:15.420
mouth, his face is more mobile.

554
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:17.640
I know, yeah, yeah.

555
00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:21.480
And we sort of had them, didn't we, with Michael Wisher, but...

556
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:22.920
They were just an HST.

557
00:29:23.339 --> 00:29:25.200
Sorry, Michael.

558
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:29.640
The big book of British smiles.

559
00:29:30.299 --> 00:29:35.519
I like to think of the 2nd registrar of Dan Ross's voice as being

560
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:37.440
his branded burglaration.

561
00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:43.019
Yeah, well, I mean, they, you know, I think that remembrance of

562
00:29:43.019 --> 00:29:47.220
the Daleks makes a very, very clear parallel between Hitler on

563
00:29:47.220 --> 00:29:52.140
television during the Second World War and and, you know, Davros

564
00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:53.460
the way that he shouts as well.

565
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:55.859
I'm sorry, I've been mispronouncing that.

566
00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:57.420
It should be Dar Ross.

567
00:29:57.480 --> 00:29:58.380
Dar Ross.

568
00:29:58.380 --> 00:29:59.220
Dar Ross.

569
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:01.259
Dar Ross is coming.

570
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:14.220
We'll talk more about him next week because I think that as we

571
00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:17.700
discover his plan and, you know, when we get him interacting with

572
00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:21.599
the doctor in person, I think we get to see how genuinely good he

573
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:22.019
is.

574
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:26.579
It's interesting how all of these separate sort of plot prints

575
00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:27.900
come together.

576
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:33.660
With the doctor and Donna being in the TARDIS and the trail stops

577
00:30:33.660 --> 00:30:35.940
dead, the Medusa Cascade, and the doctor sort of gives up.

578
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.460
It's a bit like Colin Baker in Venice on Varos, really.

579
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:40.140
Yeah, he's out of Zeiton 7.

580
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:41.400
He doesn't know what to do next.

581
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:46.259
Maybe Donna could have brought him the TARDIS manual and that

582
00:30:46.259 --> 00:30:48.299
would have set off a, you know, wonderful plot thread.

583
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:54.480
I'm not sure that that works that scene because the doctor, you

584
00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:59.940
know, but I guess we want to make it clear just how sort of truly

585
00:30:59.940 --> 00:31:04.200
defeated he feels or how big the thread is.

586
00:31:04.259 --> 00:31:07.980
And it also, of course, gives Catherine Tate the chance to sort of

587
00:31:07.980 --> 00:31:10.319
act against him while he's not doing anything.

588
00:31:10.380 --> 00:31:13.680
And of course, she's as magnificent as she always is.

589
00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:16.380
Yeah, it's building the scale of the thread, isn't it?

590
00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:17.460
Yes, it is.

591
00:31:17.700 --> 00:31:22.079
But that whole moment meant, you know, you then get Harriet Jones

592
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:27.480
coming in, you get the subway network, you get, you know, all that

593
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:28.079
comedy stuff.

594
00:31:28.140 --> 00:31:31.200
She wouldn't let me have a webcam because they're naughty.

595
00:31:31.259 --> 00:31:33.779
I mean, that is just one of the most hilarious things ever.

596
00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:36.299
Rose going off, but, you know, Martha.

597
00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:39.059
And having the flashback with Martha, you know, with her mum.

598
00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:43.200
I mean, you came home at the end of the world, you came back to

599
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:43.440
me.

600
00:31:43.500 --> 00:31:45.000
Thanks, Francine.

601
00:31:45.059 --> 00:31:50.400
It's always about you Still a much more mellow version of Francine

602
00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:51.000
than we've seen.

603
00:31:51.059 --> 00:31:51.599
That's true.

604
00:31:51.660 --> 00:31:52.500
Yeah, that's true.

605
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:53.819
I mean, I like her a lot more.

606
00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:54.779
I still don't love her.

607
00:31:54.839 --> 00:31:56.880
But it's great to have that, you know.

608
00:31:56.940 --> 00:32:00.720
And and and I love the fact that the subwave network was created

609
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:05.039
by the Mr. Copper Foundation going back to the Christmas special

610
00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:08.460
like it's a subtle little tie in, but it's a payoff for everybody

611
00:32:08.460 --> 00:32:10.500
who's been watching to go, oh.

612
00:32:10.859 --> 00:32:14.519
You know, Russell was actually planning to bring back the famous

613
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:16.079
miserable bastard in this episode.

614
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:21.180
Yes, it was a very begrudging corporation.

615
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:25.079
He was going to bring back Russell Toby as a companion for this

616
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:25.680
story as well.

617
00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:27.180
Really?

618
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:27.599
Yeah.

619
00:32:27.660 --> 00:32:32.220
I mean, he will get to bring Russell Tovey back at the end of next

620
00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:36.839
year or, you know, but he was really throwing everything he could

621
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:42.000
possibly throw at the script and working around availability and

622
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:46.619
and just kind of what was practical, you know, in sort of 2

623
00:32:46.619 --> 00:32:48.480
inflated episodes.

624
00:32:48.539 --> 00:32:51.900
But James, what I love is the fact that Russell does have all

625
00:32:51.900 --> 00:32:52.619
these ideas.

626
00:32:52.740 --> 00:32:56.759
It's about bringing back all these things and he'll, he'll do a

627
00:32:56.759 --> 00:32:58.859
draft or whatever, and then something will not practically work

628
00:32:58.859 --> 00:33:02.039
and realise, no, no, no, that's not right, or, or that's not going

629
00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:05.579
to work in this instance, or it's just serendipity, that they

630
00:33:05.579 --> 00:33:07.920
can't be brought back, and it sort of all just works out

631
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:09.720
beautifully. for him.

632
00:33:09.779 --> 00:33:12.720
Like there's just something magical about this time on the show

633
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:15.720
where decisions are made, whether they be 2 or 3 years ago and

634
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:18.240
they're all paying off now and he makes decisions in scripts or

635
00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:21.660
people aren't available and it just works out, you know?

636
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:23.700
You know, Todd Talent will win out in the end.

637
00:33:23.819 --> 00:33:27.480
Russell is just supremely talented and makes it look easy.

638
00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:28.740
Yeah.

639
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:32.279
I think it's really well worth going back to the writer's tale and

640
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:37.740
rereading the sections on this because all of this, just seeing

641
00:33:37.740 --> 00:33:43.140
him creates and winnow ideas and and reject things and and be

642
00:33:43.140 --> 00:33:45.299
sorry that things don't work out and stuff.

643
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:50.460
Just having that incredible access to his creative process is

644
00:33:50.460 --> 00:33:52.680
really, really interesting, I think.

645
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:58.380
I think also you can underestimate the amount of creativity and

646
00:33:58.380 --> 00:34:01.859
wit is needed to pull off a story like this.

647
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:06.119
I mean, it's television before it's time with kind of crossover

648
00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:08.039
universes and characters coming back and everything.

649
00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:12.960
J and T had a sense of this kind of thing way back in the 80s, but

650
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:17.340
he didn't really have the wit to pull it off or more importantly

651
00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:19.500
the audience goodwill, I think, to pull it off.

652
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:23.460
The only point where he ever really successfully made event TV

653
00:34:23.460 --> 00:34:24.900
like this was Earthshock.

654
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:28.440
And I think that's because that was part of his only genuinely

655
00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:31.559
successful season of Doctor Who.

656
00:34:31.619 --> 00:34:35.699
So, many writers and many showrunners could have attempted this.

657
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:37.260
I think very few could have pulled it off.

658
00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:42.599
Yeah, I don't think we, you know, like I think, um, Stephen

659
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:46.619
Moffatt is a supremely talented writer, and you know, someone that

660
00:34:46.619 --> 00:34:50.219
we're very lucky to have had in charge of the show for so long.

661
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:53.639
He's written more Doctor Who on screen than anyone else at all.

662
00:34:53.699 --> 00:34:58.139
But this is not what he's interested in.

663
00:34:58.860 --> 00:35:02.519
And it's not playing to his wheelhouse.

664
00:35:02.579 --> 00:35:09.059
And for me, I've said before so many times that I feel sad about a

665
00:35:09.059 --> 00:35:13.079
version of Doctor Who that's just the doctor and a companion and

666
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:16.199
they have no friends and they don't exist in a world.

667
00:35:16.260 --> 00:35:23.579
And Russell has just made something so spectacular that the show

668
00:35:23.579 --> 00:35:26.280
hasn't properly attempted again, maybe a little bit in the tubinal

669
00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:31.380
era, to try and give the show a sort of earthbound context.

670
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:34.019
And I think that that's what the show needs.

671
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:37.440
It's like the unit era, only writ large.

672
00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:39.000
Absolutely.

673
00:35:39.059 --> 00:35:42.599
Doctor Who has family and the audience or willing participants in

674
00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:42.900
that.

675
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:43.860
We're all part of the family.

676
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:47.519
Yeah It's like fandom, actually, but it's extended to the general

677
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:48.119
viewership.

678
00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:48.780
Yeah.

679
00:35:48.840 --> 00:35:50.699
Yeah, well, that was it.

680
00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:52.619
They all got invited in to enjoy our thing.

681
00:35:52.739 --> 00:35:57.360
And people who are down on Russell for being populist, I think

682
00:35:57.360 --> 00:35:59.579
miss the fact that that was the point.

683
00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:00.840
It was inviting everybody in.

684
00:36:00.900 --> 00:36:07.559
It was a Saturday night family drama on a mainstream broadcast

685
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:08.219
channel.

686
00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:10.440
It needs to be populous entertainment.

687
00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:15.900
And that's the point that, Although I really love a lot of what

688
00:36:15.900 --> 00:36:16.800
Moffatt did.

689
00:36:16.860 --> 00:36:21.900
He's making it for the fans after series 5, it's being made for

690
00:36:21.900 --> 00:36:22.559
the fans.

691
00:36:22.619 --> 00:36:29.219
And, you know, Chipwell attempted to do that again in series 11

692
00:36:29.219 --> 00:36:32.639
but, you know, probably went too far.

693
00:36:32.699 --> 00:36:36.239
And then went completely in the opposite direction the next

694
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:36.659
season.

695
00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:39.960
I think there is a midpoint to be chartered there.

696
00:36:40.019 --> 00:36:43.019
I mean, I understand that there are arguments from some people who

697
00:36:43.019 --> 00:36:44.880
say that Russell was too populist.

698
00:36:44.940 --> 00:36:47.340
I don't necessarily agree with that, but I understand where it's

699
00:36:47.340 --> 00:36:48.059
coming from.

700
00:36:48.119 --> 00:36:50.880
I think there's a midpoint to be chartered, and I think Moffatt

701
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:53.639
did actually get that quite right for a couple of seasons.

702
00:36:53.699 --> 00:36:56.639
But there's no denying Russell's instincts here.

703
00:36:56.699 --> 00:36:57.480
His instincts are correct.

704
00:36:58.019 --> 00:37:03.539
And also when he decides to kill off one of our um, semi-regulars

705
00:37:03.539 --> 00:37:08.699
in Harriet Jones, um, there has to be some sort of price to pay.

706
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:10.739
You know, he's not going to kill off certain people at this point

707
00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:11.340
in time.

708
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:19.739
And to have it be her and not see it, but hear it, you know, the

709
00:37:19.739 --> 00:37:21.659
way it's written is and structured is just brilliant.

710
00:37:21.780 --> 00:37:24.719
Like, you can feel it. about that.

711
00:37:24.780 --> 00:37:26.219
No, no, no, Russia's not dead.

712
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:28.500
She dropped through a trap door and escaped on a motorbike.

713
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:32.699
Russell secretly thinks that he he, the fun thing about Russell's

714
00:37:32.699 --> 00:37:36.179
approach to the show is that he's a fan of his own version of

715
00:37:36.179 --> 00:37:38.159
Doctor Who in a way that we are.

716
00:37:38.219 --> 00:37:41.820
And so he makes jokes about Chancellor Flavia.

717
00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:43.260
And he has this theory.

718
00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:46.320
I think, again, in the writer's tale, isn't there a cartoon of

719
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:49.079
Harriet Jones escaping the Taleks?

720
00:37:49.139 --> 00:37:51.599
So he's engaged with it on that same level.

721
00:37:51.659 --> 00:37:56.099
Obviously, Harriet Jones dies and in part as penance for her

722
00:37:56.099 --> 00:37:58.380
destruction of the secret acts at Christmas day.

723
00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:03.179
But, you know, Russell is still having fun with his own show.

724
00:38:03.239 --> 00:38:07.139
But he's left it, he's left it so that you, you know, they say

725
00:38:07.139 --> 00:38:07.860
exterminate.

726
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:09.179
She could escape, right?

727
00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:15.179
Like if you wanted to bring her back now, like some showrunner

728
00:38:15.179 --> 00:38:16.500
could say, well, she actually did escape.

729
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:18.659
It's a bit like a milk. was teleported where it last minute.

730
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:22.199
It's a bit like Melrose place where they kill off Kimberly

731
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:25.380
offscreen and then she comes back half a season later with a wig

732
00:38:25.380 --> 00:38:26.219
and a big scar.

733
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:30.599
Like, I mean, it's that sort of thing that he just knows when to

734
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:34.139
leave things open enough that if you wanted to, Big Finish could

735
00:38:34.139 --> 00:38:36.599
come in and do 15 box sets of Harriet Jones.

736
00:38:36.659 --> 00:38:39.599
You know, they probably will if they can get Penelope Wilton.

737
00:38:39.659 --> 00:38:43.320
And James, you said she might have been teleported away. did this

738
00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:43.980
not remind you?

739
00:38:44.039 --> 00:38:46.440
There was just enough wiggle room to have server land in the

740
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:47.880
teleport in terminal, you know?

741
00:38:47.940 --> 00:38:48.539
Oh, yes.

742
00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:07.139
So, of course, with her extermination, the subwave network is

743
00:39:07.139 --> 00:39:12.780
transferred to Torchwood, um, We're all talking to the doctor at

744
00:39:12.780 --> 00:39:13.500
this point, aren't we?

745
00:39:13.559 --> 00:39:14.880
We're all about to talk to the doctor.

746
00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:15.719
Yeah.

747
00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:16.380
Yeah.

748
00:39:16.380 --> 00:39:18.000
And that call goes through.

749
00:39:18.059 --> 00:39:21.900
And that's just a glorious moment when they're all on their phones

750
00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:25.199
you know, trying to get the signal through to the doctor and then

751
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:27.300
they're all appearing and all, who's that?

752
00:39:27.300 --> 00:39:27.780
and all.

753
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:31.920
I mean, let's just get that one front on shot of Gwen typing away

754
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:34.139
at the thing, which is used about 5 different times.

755
00:39:35.099 --> 00:39:39.719
But when the doctor finally comes in on the Zoom call, like it is

756
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:43.019
it's so great and he's so excited to see them all and so

757
00:39:43.019 --> 00:39:43.800
incredibly happy.

758
00:39:43.860 --> 00:39:48.539
And my favourite thing, and it comes up again next week, is that

759
00:39:48.539 --> 00:39:52.019
of course, the thing that we all know about Jack is that he hits

760
00:39:52.019 --> 00:39:53.159
on people all the time.

761
00:39:53.219 --> 00:39:54.599
So he hits on Chanto.

762
00:39:54.659 --> 00:39:57.480
He hits on Martha in Utopia when he comes back.

763
00:39:58.019 --> 00:40:03.539
He hits on Sarah in this call and Sarah really likes it.

764
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:04.079
Like she.

765
00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:07.800
Ooh, she's, you know, sort of quite flattered, but he doesn't hit

766
00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:09.780
on Donna because Donna hits on him.

767
00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:12.300
Like Donna is going, who's that?

768
00:40:12.420 --> 00:40:15.300
and pointing to the screen and kind of doing sort of hilarious

769
00:40:15.300 --> 00:40:20.280
comedy, sort of sexy face on the call, and she will do that next

770
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:20.579
week.

771
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:24.780
Jack never hits on Donna because Donna is more sexually confident

772
00:40:24.780 --> 00:40:27.480
and more outgoing than Jack.

773
00:40:28.739 --> 00:40:34.320
And then, of course, some good old, you know, the doctor in that

774
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:38.159
moment as well, of course, is sad that that Rose is not there. and

775
00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:41.519
then and then something's coming through and you think, oh, could

776
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:45.659
it be, but you know it's going to be Darrox?

777
00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:49.380
And I'm so and I'm so glad that Sarah even gets to react to to

778
00:40:49.380 --> 00:40:51.239
just that, that, you know?

779
00:40:51.300 --> 00:40:54.780
It's little touches like that, that make the writing so good that

780
00:40:54.780 --> 00:40:57.659
she gets that moment in the midst of everything else.

781
00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:01.079
And of course, we'll have the utter fangasm pay off to that next

782
00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:01.559
week.

783
00:41:01.619 --> 00:41:04.139
But I mean, think about the 5 doctors.

784
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:05.039
Do you know what I mean?

785
00:41:05.099 --> 00:41:07.920
Like, in the 5 doctors, at the very end, on the top floor of the

786
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:12.480
tower, They're all there and like the brigadier is there and all

787
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:15.900
of these people who should be surprised to see one another and who

788
00:41:15.900 --> 00:41:17.880
never react to one another at all.

789
00:41:17.940 --> 00:41:20.880
But Russell doesn't let that happen here.

790
00:41:20.940 --> 00:41:25.199
And so having Sarah react, recognise Davros.

791
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:30.599
And, you know, he decides that he has to make them interact in

792
00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:34.739
some way, just as you said before, Todd, where it's Sarah who gets

793
00:41:34.739 --> 00:41:39.900
to hear about the Daleks 1st because, you know, she met them twice

794
00:41:39.900 --> 00:41:45.360
and met them in this incredible story from the 1970s and then

795
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:50.039
having her respond to Davros's voice and having Davros recognise

796
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:50.579
her later.

797
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:51.780
It's so good.

798
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:53.159
I mean, it's so good.

799
00:41:53.219 --> 00:41:54.659
Without weighing it down.

800
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:56.039
It didn't have to weigh it down.

801
00:41:56.099 --> 00:41:59.219
It didn't have to be something that you had to read a whole heap

802
00:41:59.219 --> 00:42:02.940
of Peter Haning coffee table books to understand.

803
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:05.940
I just love the fact that, yes, the classic series fans.

804
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:06.420
It's there.

805
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:10.079
But it's also a way of saying to you who fans.

806
00:42:10.139 --> 00:42:12.599
Well, come on, you need to come and watch some of these old

807
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:13.199
stories.

808
00:42:13.260 --> 00:42:16.739
It's very subtle and I really love the fact that that's there.

809
00:42:16.860 --> 00:42:19.079
And Russell knows his audience.

810
00:42:19.139 --> 00:42:20.400
He knows how to pick and choose.

811
00:42:20.460 --> 00:42:24.719
And so he's not referring to, you know, the leisure hive or Meglos

812
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:27.960
who's referring to possibly the most famous story from the

813
00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:30.420
original run, Genesis of the Daleks.

814
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:34.199
So even the wider viewership is going to have some awareness of

815
00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:35.280
this fact, I think.

816
00:42:35.340 --> 00:42:39.539
Yeah, and, you know, we've already heard about Sarah travelling

817
00:42:39.539 --> 00:42:40.199
with a doctor.

818
00:42:40.260 --> 00:42:43.920
We had her give her laundry list of things that she'd encountered

819
00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:45.900
during her time with him.

820
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:50.460
So even if you've only watched the new series.

821
00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:54.780
You're not going to be surprised that Sarah recognises the Daleks

822
00:42:54.780 --> 00:42:57.179
and Sarah recognises Davros's voice.

823
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:01.559
And of course, all of that then runs into, you know, the doctor

824
00:43:01.559 --> 00:43:05.400
having a bit of a confrontation with Davros, but then it's like

825
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:07.440
you know, I've only got one thing to say to you.

826
00:43:07.500 --> 00:43:08.579
Bye.

827
00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:11.280
So David said it.

828
00:43:11.340 --> 00:43:12.179
It's so cool.

829
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:16.079
And, and, and, and it then just sets off the chain of events to

830
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:18.360
the cliffhanger with everybody in peril.

831
00:43:18.900 --> 00:43:23.519
I just think this cliffhanger is unbelievably great.

832
00:43:23.579 --> 00:43:25.139
Amazing Yeah.

833
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:28.800
Like possibly the best one ever, but certainly up there.

834
00:43:28.860 --> 00:43:35.280
And so the, very early on in the episode, like in that sort of 1st

835
00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:41.880
scene in the Tardis, um, where Donna says, but I know everything's

836
00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:44.940
terrible, but Rose's coming back isn't that good.

837
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:48.840
And you see David Tennant, and for a 2nd you wonder whether he's

838
00:43:48.840 --> 00:43:51.659
going to say, that's not important, it's all too dangerous or

839
00:43:51.659 --> 00:43:54.719
whatever, but he just is so genuine.

840
00:43:54.840 --> 00:43:58.559
You know, like Tenet is so artificial in his performance so

841
00:43:58.559 --> 00:43:58.920
often.

842
00:43:58.980 --> 00:44:03.420
But here he's just genuinely excited that he's going to see Rose

843
00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:05.039
again and it's beautiful.

844
00:44:05.099 --> 00:44:06.300
It's so lovely.

845
00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:13.260
And again, Donna gets this incredible role in that scene where she

846
00:44:13.260 --> 00:44:18.599
appears and the doctor's back is to her and Donna sees her 1st and

847
00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:20.940
she smiles in this subtle way.

848
00:44:20.940 --> 00:44:22.320
Totally.

849
00:44:22.380 --> 00:44:25.139
And, you know, when she says, ask her yourself.

850
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:29.039
Like, you know, the emotion in that, and you can just, I just, you

851
00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:33.059
know, feel waves of emotion go over my whole person every time I

852
00:44:33.059 --> 00:44:38.099
watch that combined with Murray's music and that whole run, like

853
00:44:38.099 --> 00:44:40.739
and the looks, and it's just this payoff.

854
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:43.980
Julie Gardner's talked about that, the fact that the doctor

855
00:44:43.980 --> 00:44:49.079
running towards Rose is so big and romantic, the full on pelt that

856
00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:49.800
he sort of puts on.

857
00:44:49.860 --> 00:44:54.599
And it's the 1st thing that him and Rose ever do together is hold

858
00:44:54.599 --> 00:44:55.559
hands and run.

859
00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:59.219
You know, running is what they do and it was what their

860
00:44:59.219 --> 00:45:00.300
relationship was about.

861
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:05.159
You know, like many people I sometimes found rose and Tennant kind

862
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:07.679
of irritating together in series 2.

863
00:45:07.860 --> 00:45:09.840
And I think that was partly by design.

864
00:45:09.900 --> 00:45:12.239
I think you know, Russell intended it.

865
00:45:12.300 --> 00:45:15.719
So I wasn't one of those people who sort of ship the doctor and

866
00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:17.880
rose in a sort of tumbler kind of way.

867
00:45:18.420 --> 00:45:26.460
But nevertheless, I'm absolutely sold by the romance of that run.

868
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:30.300
And just, of course, a dalek comes and shoots in.

869
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:31.320
Of course, that happens.

870
00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:33.840
Russell whipping the rug out from underneath us.

871
00:45:33.900 --> 00:45:34.500
Yeah.

872
00:45:34.500 --> 00:45:38.699
But I love the fact that it's not a full on extermination.

873
00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:43.079
It's a brush past, like, you know, Yeah, it hits one of his

874
00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:43.440
hearts.

875
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:49.139
And even the, when they come together, like when they, you know

876
00:45:49.139 --> 00:45:52.619
he's lying on the ground, she's speaking to him and it's like, hi

877
00:45:52.619 --> 00:45:54.000
yes, I've been busy.

878
00:45:54.059 --> 00:45:56.099
You know, like the conversation.

879
00:45:56.159 --> 00:45:58.320
He's so normal and so.

880
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:00.000
I like your dental world. beautiful, you know.

881
00:46:01.860 --> 00:46:03.539
New teeth.

882
00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:07.199
I think that whole sequence from the TARDIS touching down outside

883
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:10.440
the church through the end of the episode is one of the most

884
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:12.780
perfect stretches of Doctor Who ever.

885
00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:16.860
It's beautifully written, it's beautifully performed, but let's

886
00:46:16.860 --> 00:46:22.199
not lose sight of how... marshalled it is by Graham Harper.

887
00:46:22.260 --> 00:46:27.719
This story could have spun out of control so easily, and Graham

888
00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:30.119
Harper keeps it all perfectly in sync.

889
00:46:30.179 --> 00:46:31.679
He is fantastic.

890
00:46:31.739 --> 00:46:35.760
Like, he is the perfect man for the job, especially in the TARDIS

891
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:39.119
when the TARDIS needs to have fire, for God knows what reason

892
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:41.099
coming up, you know, when they're trying to get back.

893
00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:42.420
You know, he does that so well.

894
00:46:42.420 --> 00:46:45.960
And thank God it's not, is it Douglas McKinnon?

895
00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:48.599
He directed the Santantu part.

896
00:46:48.659 --> 00:46:52.800
Thank God he's not him because he's like the...

897
00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:54.900
He's that folk of series 4.

898
00:46:55.079 --> 00:46:58.260
And I think you mentioned previously, James, or somebody did.

899
00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:02.579
He's like the Peter Moffatt of classics.

900
00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:03.719
We don't want him.

901
00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:06.900
Graham Harper is the right man for the job, and at every point in

902
00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:11.760
this, he just, he just chooses the right shots, the right angles

903
00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:13.199
the right performances.

904
00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:18.300
And it's such a good script, but I think moving so seamlessly

905
00:47:18.300 --> 00:47:21.659
between so many plot elements is so much harder than it looks.

906
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:25.260
It could have easily come off as a little bit of a mess, and yet

907
00:47:25.260 --> 00:47:26.340
it absolutely doesn't.

908
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:29.639
Perhaps the one thing I will say here at the end is that

909
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:32.460
intercutting between all of the cliffhangers with torture would

910
00:47:32.460 --> 00:47:35.760
under attack, Sarah James seems to be getting exterminated for

911
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:37.139
quite some time in her car.

912
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:41.519
It's the one thing that I kind of go, okay, okay, they're just

913
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:44.280
gonna keep on saying that for 5 minutes whilst other things

914
00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:44.699
happen.

915
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:45.300
I can live with that.

916
00:47:46.139 --> 00:47:49.139
I think you have to do that in the cliffhanger.

917
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:53.699
Like it's a good practice, I think, for all of the plot threads to

918
00:47:53.699 --> 00:47:54.960
come to a head at the same time.

919
00:47:55.019 --> 00:47:59.579
And they did it in their very, very 1st ever Keith Poke directed

920
00:47:59.579 --> 00:48:00.480
cliffhanger.

921
00:48:00.539 --> 00:48:03.900
Let's just have a bit of comparing critras between that and this.

922
00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:07.320
Yeah, but I mean, even that, you know, it's a Russell script and a

923
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:10.920
really great Russell script and, you know, it doesn't quite come

924
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:14.460
off, but it's the right instinct and he does that here.

925
00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:19.800
So having Sarah confronted by the Daleks and Torchwood about to be

926
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:22.860
attacked by the Daleks and so on, like all of this stuff happening

927
00:48:22.860 --> 00:48:24.900
at the same time is great.

928
00:48:25.019 --> 00:48:29.280
I think Graham is just a confident, supremely confident

929
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:29.699
directory.

930
00:48:29.699 --> 00:48:30.480
He knows what he's doing.

931
00:48:30.539 --> 00:48:33.119
And so he knows when to pull out his bag of tricks, but he knows

932
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:34.679
when to get out of away as well.

933
00:48:34.739 --> 00:48:35.460
Yeah.

934
00:48:35.460 --> 00:48:38.519
Well, you know, that's the thing that's most striking about the

935
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:41.940
difference between his stuff in the 80s and his stuff in the new

936
00:48:41.940 --> 00:48:42.539
series.

937
00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:44.519
The stuff in the 80s is so stylised.

938
00:48:44.579 --> 00:48:50.639
And so artfully directed and stands out so much from everything

939
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:51.719
else around it.

940
00:48:51.780 --> 00:48:56.820
Whereas, you know, he does use tricks, there are all sorts of fun

941
00:48:56.820 --> 00:48:59.460
silly things that he does in the unicorn and the wasp that no one

942
00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:02.820
else has ever done in the new show, but he really just stands out

943
00:49:02.820 --> 00:49:07.320
because he's confident and competent and not because he's trying

944
00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:10.139
sort of to do auntie moves with the camera so much.

945
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:17.940
So the other thing, the most incredible thing.

946
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:21.119
We're at a point, I think, do we know David's leaving at the end

947
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:21.659
of next year?

948
00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:23.340
So we didn't know what was going to happen?

949
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:25.199
It was announced at the NTAs, wasn't it?

950
00:49:25.260 --> 00:49:28.559
Yes, he announced at the NTAs, which was in October of that year

951
00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:29.400
so about 4 months later.

952
00:49:29.460 --> 00:49:33.719
So we do know by the time the next doctor is airing, but we don't

953
00:49:33.719 --> 00:49:34.199
know it yet.

954
00:49:34.260 --> 00:49:35.340
Yes.

955
00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:38.699
We do know that Russell is leaving and that Moffatt is taking

956
00:49:38.699 --> 00:49:39.000
over.

957
00:49:39.059 --> 00:49:39.900
Yes.

958
00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:45.360
So we have to be wondering what's going to happen with Tennant, I

959
00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:46.199
think, at this point.

960
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:52.800
And so this cliffhanger, which is not just the doctor in peril

961
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:55.860
because he's not, actually, he's regenerating, he's going to be

962
00:49:55.860 --> 00:49:56.219
fine.

963
00:49:56.280 --> 00:49:57.840
We know that he's going to be fine.

964
00:49:57.960 --> 00:50:04.500
The cliffhanger is a cliffhanger because it puts us in peril in a

965
00:50:04.500 --> 00:50:04.800
way.

966
00:50:04.860 --> 00:50:06.780
Like it's affecting us.

967
00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:08.880
What is going to happen next?

968
00:50:08.940 --> 00:50:12.900
What is going to happen to David Tennant's doctor, who we adore.

969
00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:14.519
What's going to happen now?

970
00:50:14.699 --> 00:50:18.360
He's breaking the rules of regeneration.

971
00:50:18.420 --> 00:50:20.820
Of course, there are no rules, but in our head, canon.

972
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:23.820
There are rules, like you just don't have the doctor exterminated

973
00:50:23.820 --> 00:50:27.480
and regenerating unless he's actually regenerating into a new

974
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:27.719
person.

975
00:50:27.780 --> 00:50:30.900
We're going to find something out next week.

976
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:35.880
But at this point, some of us on this podcast, probably me, are

977
00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:38.820
enraged that this is happening the 1st time round.

978
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:41.699
How dare you do this with your generation?

979
00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:43.199
You're wasting it if he's going to come back.

980
00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:45.360
Regenerating a bathroom, destroying it.

981
00:50:45.420 --> 00:50:49.320
This is absolutely appalling, but it's absolutely the best thing

982
00:50:49.320 --> 00:50:52.380
and the most wonderful thing coming back to it and watching it.

983
00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:53.820
It's just divine.

984
00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:58.559
You know how sometimes people say it's just a massive pity that we

985
00:50:58.559 --> 00:51:02.099
know when the doctor's leaving and we've never seen a Doctor Who

986
00:51:02.099 --> 00:51:07.679
story in the new series where we haven't known that the doctor's

987
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:10.320
going to regenerate at the end and who the doctor's going to

988
00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:11.400
regenerate into.

989
00:51:11.460 --> 00:51:15.900
Like, that just never happens and can't possibly ever happen again

990
00:51:15.900 --> 00:51:18.480
because they announce the casting of a new doctor.

991
00:51:18.539 --> 00:51:19.320
It's a big story.

992
00:51:19.380 --> 00:51:23.099
It's part of the whole program's paratext, is this discussion of

993
00:51:23.099 --> 00:51:26.460
who's going to play the doctor next and when they're leaving and

994
00:51:26.460 --> 00:51:27.480
when they're joining.

995
00:51:27.539 --> 00:51:29.099
And so we can't have that again.

996
00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:31.800
But we get it here.

997
00:51:31.860 --> 00:51:37.320
You know, we get a surprise regeneration, and it's absolutely

998
00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:39.119
unbelievable.

999
00:51:39.179 --> 00:51:43.380
And when Moffat tries that trick again in his last season.

1000
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:44.340
It's horrible.

1001
00:51:44.400 --> 00:51:49.739
But here it's just so spectacular.

1002
00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:54.900
It's just unimaginable And it's, there's no, like he cuts the

1003
00:51:54.900 --> 00:51:57.179
thing right in the middle of the regeneration.

1004
00:51:57.239 --> 00:51:59.579
It's not coming, it's not going to be thwarted.

1005
00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:03.059
He's standing there in the TARDIS with the light pouring out of

1006
00:52:03.059 --> 00:52:04.139
every orifice.

1007
00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:06.300
You know, we, there's no stopping it now.

1008
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:08.699
We know it's happening and then it goes.

1009
00:52:08.820 --> 00:52:10.139
No next time trailer either.

1010
00:52:10.199 --> 00:52:11.219
No, that's right.

1011
00:52:11.280 --> 00:52:16.980
Do you think that's him making up for the fact that Eccleston

1012
00:52:16.980 --> 00:52:21.900
ruined... 2nd bite at the cherry.

1013
00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:22.559
Yeah.

1014
00:52:22.619 --> 00:52:25.980
So like, you know, like initially, you know, when they realised

1015
00:52:25.980 --> 00:52:30.420
Eccleston wasn't returning, it was going to be a complete

1016
00:52:30.420 --> 00:52:31.199
surprise.

1017
00:52:31.260 --> 00:52:33.360
They weren't going to announce tenant.

1018
00:52:33.420 --> 00:52:39.000
He was just going to become him at the end of series one and it

1019
00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:39.539
was leaked.

1020
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:41.460
Yeah, they almost pulled it off.

1021
00:52:41.519 --> 00:52:43.920
The series was actually airing before it got leaked.

1022
00:52:43.980 --> 00:52:44.579
So they came close.

1023
00:52:44.699 --> 00:52:48.780
Well, in fact, it got leaked, you know, between episodes one and

1024
00:52:48.780 --> 00:52:49.559
two, didn't it?

1025
00:52:49.619 --> 00:52:49.920
Yeah.

1026
00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:50.159
Yeah.

1027
00:52:50.219 --> 00:52:50.699
Yeah.

1028
00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:53.219
It goes back, I think, to what I was saying earlier about the fact

1029
00:52:53.219 --> 00:52:54.900
that the audience is complicit in this.

1030
00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:57.900
I don't think he can just throw in a regeneration like Mothat did

1031
00:52:57.900 --> 00:53:00.059
in his last year and have it work.

1032
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:04.920
It has to be a big audience moment, which there, and between the

1033
00:53:04.920 --> 00:53:07.739
stolen earth and journey's end in the UK, where I was living at

1034
00:53:07.739 --> 00:53:09.900
the time, with the Regeneration Cliffhanger.

1035
00:53:09.960 --> 00:53:12.059
Doctor Who was everywhere.

1036
00:53:12.119 --> 00:53:15.360
The not we were talking about it in the office.

1037
00:53:15.420 --> 00:53:19.260
There were endless news reports and interviews and TV discussion

1038
00:53:19.260 --> 00:53:19.920
analysis.

1039
00:53:19.980 --> 00:53:22.860
It was the genuine TV event that they tried to make it.

1040
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:26.400
Yeah, it's just unthinkable, isn't it?

1041
00:53:26.460 --> 00:53:27.239
Wonderful.

1042
00:53:27.300 --> 00:53:32.519
Yeah, it's it's spectacular and I think this cliffhanger is is

1043
00:53:32.519 --> 00:53:37.739
just astounding and the whole episode is just a culmination of the

1044
00:53:37.739 --> 00:53:42.179
past weeks and the past 4 years and it really is just brilliant

1045
00:53:42.179 --> 00:53:42.599
television.

1046
00:54:10.440 --> 00:54:13.500
Well, that's all we have time for this week.

1047
00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:16.079
We'll be back next week for the first episode of the David

1048
00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:19.139
Morrissey era, apparently, in Journey's End.

1049
00:54:19.260 --> 00:54:23.039
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1050
00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:25.380
and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook

1051
00:54:25.380 --> 00:54:30.360
at FTE podcast on Twitter and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety

1052
00:54:28.860 --> 00:54:33.599
com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger and

1053
00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:34.739
Jody into Terra.

1054
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:38.519
Until next time, remember to look after the bees.

1055
00:54:38.579 --> 00:54:42.000
Without them, the doctor won't be able to save us from the coming

1056
00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:43.139
apocalypse.

1057
00:54:43.199 --> 00:54:45.539
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1058
00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:46.559
Good night.

1059
00:54:46.619 --> 00:54:47.280
Good night.

1060
00:54:47.340 --> 00:54:48.420
See you soon.

1061
00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:54.420
That was Flight 3 Entirety, starring Todd, Billby, Nathan

1062
00:54:54.420 --> 00:54:55.679
Bottomley, Peter Griffith, St.

1063
00:54:55.679 --> 00:54:56.519
James, Selwood.

1064
00:54:56.579 --> 00:54:59.400
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane

1065
00:54:59.400 --> 00:55:00.239
Orberg.

1066
00:55:00.300 --> 00:55:04.860
This episode, Mr. Smith's fanfare is digetic, was recorded on the

1067
00:55:04.860 --> 00:55:08.219
13th of April 2020 and released on the 31st of May.

1068
00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:14.340
If you normally hit stop on your iPhone at this point in the

1069
00:55:14.340 --> 00:55:16.739
podcast, you're missing out on several minutes of top quality

1070
00:55:16.739 --> 00:55:18.059
content every week.

1071
00:55:18.119 --> 00:55:21.840
So stay tuned now and you'll hear Peter and Nathan make an

1072
00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:22.739
alarming admission.

1073
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:26.460
Okay, let's end it there, do you think?

1074
00:55:26.519 --> 00:55:26.880
Yeah.

1075
00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:28.860
That was good.

1076
00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:29.519
That was good.

1077
00:55:29.639 --> 00:55:32.579
I didn't get to throw in my big character development surprise.

1078
00:55:32.760 --> 00:55:34.800
Ah, what was it?

1079
00:55:34.860 --> 00:55:36.599
Give me a tag.

1080
00:55:36.659 --> 00:55:37.199
Okay.

1081
00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:41.219
So talking about unexpected character development.

1082
00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:42.659
Wilf is a Tory.

1083
00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:47.880
I, well, so years, seen from years and years.

1084
00:55:47.940 --> 00:55:54.059
So I read, um, I read um, about times entry on this before we did

1085
00:55:54.059 --> 00:55:57.239
it. and they read it, and I think they read it wrong.

1086
00:55:57.300 --> 00:56:01.380
I think they read it that Jackie's a Tory.

1087
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:06.059
And so when Wilford admits to voting for labour, her response is

1088
00:56:06.059 --> 00:56:07.019
no, you didn't.

1089
00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:11.340
But remember that scene in years and years where everyone goes to

1090
00:56:11.340 --> 00:56:15.539
the polls for the general election and Russell Toby's character

1091
00:56:15.539 --> 00:56:19.739
votes conservative after being sort of super sort of liberal and

1092
00:56:19.739 --> 00:56:21.360
terribly annoying and stuff.

1093
00:56:21.480 --> 00:56:24.539
So I think it's a little sort of anticipation of that.

1094
00:56:24.599 --> 00:56:28.139
I think that maybe he did what he did.

1095
00:56:28.199 --> 00:56:29.760
Well, you see, I think their reading of it.

1096
00:56:29.820 --> 00:56:31.320
Again, I agree with you.

1097
00:56:31.380 --> 00:56:35.280
I can because he looks very chastened when Jack says that.

1098
00:56:35.340 --> 00:56:36.239
So this is my thinking.

1099
00:56:36.300 --> 00:56:40.679
So he says he voted for Harriet Jones, who was definitely Labour

1100
00:56:40.679 --> 00:56:42.119
because she was one of Blair's babes.

1101
00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:44.039
Sylvia Schuszim, says he did not.

1102
00:56:44.099 --> 00:56:45.599
So that means he voted Tory.

1103
00:56:45.659 --> 00:56:48.539
And I mean, that's no great surprise since he lives in Chiswick

1104
00:56:48.539 --> 00:56:51.780
which is a conservative hotspot in the borough of Britain

1105
00:56:51.780 --> 00:56:52.440
Nyworth.

1106
00:56:52.500 --> 00:56:57.119
It's just about conceivable that he voted 3rd party, like Lib Demo

1107
00:56:57.119 --> 00:56:57.480
or something.

1108
00:56:57.539 --> 00:57:01.320
But if Harriet did win in a landslide, the Lib Dem vote must have

1109
00:57:01.320 --> 00:57:01.860
collapsed.

1110
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:04.320
Ergo, Wilf is a suburban toy.

1111
00:57:04.380 --> 00:57:06.000
Horrifying.

1112
00:57:06.059 --> 00:57:07.380
I'll never...

1113
00:57:07.380 --> 00:57:08.340
I'm totally fine with that.

1114
00:57:08.579 --> 00:57:11.340
Because that scene is hilarious.

1115
00:57:12.360 --> 00:57:14.940
Really funny, isn't it?

1116
00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:15.960
You did not.

1117
00:57:16.019 --> 00:57:18.780
Like, whatever she says it, it's very good.

1118
00:57:18.840 --> 00:57:19.800
So good.

1119
00:57:19.860 --> 00:57:23.340
Well, they're so good. like when the line you referenced earlier

1120
00:57:23.340 --> 00:57:25.199
Todd, where, you know, they always want the women.

1121
00:57:25.260 --> 00:57:26.760
She could have reused her line.

1122
00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:29.280
I know why you came to earth, Dafros.

1123
00:57:29.340 --> 00:57:30.420
You think you'll meet a woman.

1124
00:57:32.039 --> 00:57:34.800
That just reminds me of that...

1125
00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:40.800
That episode of AbFab, um, where Patsy is playing boobarella.

1126
00:57:40.860 --> 00:57:45.599
She came to earth to save womankind for herself.

1127
00:57:49.139 --> 00:57:51.179
I love Boober.

1128
00:57:51.239 --> 00:57:52.559
I do too.

1129
00:57:52.619 --> 00:57:54.000
All right, here goes.