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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:43:12

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Hello, dear listener and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast powered by the macro transmission of a K-filter wavelength in a self-replicating energy Blindfold Matrix.

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And also, of course, by love.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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I'm Peter.

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And I'm Todd.

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Well, turns out David Tennant didn't regenerate quite as we expected, and so it's time for him to take his 18 month victory lap, which will begin with a lot of people standing around talking in rooms until Bad Wolfmark 2 turns up.

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It's funny and thrilling and only slightly problematic.

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It's journeys end.

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Todd, were you disappointed by the final outcome of the regeneration here?

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Um...

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Yes and no?

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Like, I mean, if David had regenerated. fine, you know?

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But of course, you couldn't really for story reasons and contracts.

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And the fact that you get to use the cutoff hand from the Christmas invasion as a plot point, which has been, you know, circling this whole series since the end of season one and Torchwood, I just think it's hilarious that something that Russell throws in as like showing how regeneration works, something different.

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Um, And he never knows why he uses it, does these things.

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He just does them and then it works out to be, well, here we go.

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We can use it right here as to why he can syphon off his regeneration energy and still look like he looks and that's the brilliance of Russell T. Davies in terms of why he does what he does.

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It's also something that Moffatt does, isn't it?

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When Moffat comes back to this in time of the doctor.

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And he gets the doctor to explain why he regenerated into himself.

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And the explanation he gives is, you know, I had a sort of vanity thing going.

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And it is that, that's how tenant react.

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And so both of them are able to find things in Doctor Who's history, things that are lying around and repurpose them and find new things to do with them.

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And we talked last week so much about Russell's creative process and he's clearly doing that here.

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I'd forgotten that the hand is on the set of torchwood, like right from the beginning.

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Isn't it in the 1st episode?

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And all of this season, it's been lying around in plain sight in the Tartars.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It's tremendous.

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It's so great.

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Such a clever thing.

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And of course, the way regeneration is, he could make up anything for, you know, to make it have any effect that he wants it to have, really.

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I mean, it is the signalling, I think, in this episode that the plot mechanics are going to start taking over, which makes it slightly less joyous than last week, but still utterly joyous.

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Well, I mean, the 1st real joyous moment is the resolution of Sarah James Cliffhanger, where we get the 2 missing pieces, who weren't here last week, and that's Jackie and Mickey.

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Smiths had to stick together.

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And less than less than just Jackie, but Jackie with a massive gun.

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We've talked previously about Russell thinking in comic strip terms.

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And I was talking to friend of the podcast, Stuart Manning about this, and the fact that everyone's toting a gun, and his view was that Russell likes a big comic strip image.

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You know, he's a cartoonist.

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We've talked about that.

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And there's that fab pre-credit shot of Rose appearing in the street last week with the gum strapped over her shoulder, and that's the full page final frame image.

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But Russell being Russell has to undercut that and then does it with Jackie because that's hilarious.

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It's such a joyous moment.

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Less joyous, perhaps, is the way in which Gwen and Leanto get out of their predicament with a time lock program that Tosh is working on, so now she can manipulate time and energy fields, and it's one of these things that perhaps you're alluded to, is that this week I think we get a lot more scientific mumbo jumbo to get out of things throughout the episode, which makes it slightly less joyous for me at certain times where I kind of think, 0 my goodness, what are we going on with now?

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Does that really make any sense?

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Obviously, the counterpoint is all the lovely relationships and things that go on.

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But I do struggle a bit with some of that stuff in this episode.

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And who knew as well that Tosh could not handle a space piggy, but she could stop time.

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I actually think that Torchwood is a little bit underserved in this.

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And it is nice to have Gwen and Yanto in it, but they don't get very much to do.

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I do like the scene where Gwen is attacking a Dalek with a machine gun.

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That's fantastic.

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And I like the scene where she goes up and sort of pokes one of the bullets and stuff.

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That's all sort of very fun, but then it is very, definitely lampshaded.

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No, we're stuck in here for the duration and we're not going to be doing anything.

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Do you know what it reminded me of?

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The scenes from Shada that were used in the 5 doctors.

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Ah, yeah.

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They're caught in a time loop.

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They can't interact with the rest of the story. we'd come back and they were punching down the cam.

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We're spotted the answer.

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We're going to stick and Gwen laid out with a BFG.

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Well, you know, like, I think that Camille Kajuri sort of made the point that she doesn't get that much to do in this episode and like there are a lot of moving parts.

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There are a lot of people and everyone gets great character moments, but they don't all get great plot moments, I think.

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And I'm okay with that.

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Like I would sooner, like I would never say, Russell, you needed to have fewer guest stars and give each of them a more interesting arc.

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That's not what this is for.

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And so just seeing Yanto, having him do a few great lines, having Gwen, you know, fire a big gun, all of those things are absolutely worth seeing, and I don't care if those characters don't get that much to do.

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In a lot of ways, Jackie gets more to do than a lot of the other characters she gets put in, you know, potential peril.

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Yeah.

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Like, there's the whole scene where she's about to get fairy dusted and...

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Well, with Gita from EastEnders.

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Yes.

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Can I just say as well, sorry, James, just on that point.

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Geeta, I think, from EastEnders is like Elton from Love and Monsters.

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The doctor is woven through her life because not only is she there with Sarah on board that dalek ship, about to be disintegrated, but in 1993, the 6th doctor in ace visited her clothes store in Walsh. coincidence.

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Sorry, James.

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There's that.

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And, well, you know, Elton was actually supposed to come back in this story too.

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Actually, that reminds me.

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Like how?

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But, but it's that bit, James, it's not just, you know, her getting to have part of the action, but it's her getting to have a character moment because you remember that they're all herded into this big room where they're testing the reality bomb, which doesn't seem to be a bomb.

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It seems to be a ray, but like whatever.

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And they're sort of all there, and they're all going to be disintegrated, and Jack and Mickey and Jackie are going to escape, and the reason that Jackie doesn't go with them is that Gita has had a little bit of a turn and she's panicking and the Daleks are threatening her, and Jackie helped her, you know, like he's kind to her.

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And then when Jackie realises that she's going to abandon her and can't do anything about it, she says, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.

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Like for a 2nd she becomes the doctor.

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Even Jackie, you know, who is the butt of all of the jokes and who everyone sort of makes fun of for being sort of trivial or incompetent or whatever.

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Like even Jackie has learned to be like the doctor.

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It's a great point that you just made there.

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Again, I find it.

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I guess the mechanics of it is something that I get hung up on.

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Like she's got this big yellow button to push.

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Why does it suddenly just deposit her on the other side of that door with Mickey?

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Why doesn't it send her back to wherever?

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To the other universe or whatever.

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I mean, I know because the plot requires it to be there.

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Yeah.

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They're using that to teleport around here, aren't they?

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And that's how they get them up off Earth.

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They get Sarah up with the Daleks, don't they?

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With the teleport.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So I mean, that's how they sort of get them around, I guess.

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The plotting logistics are secondary to what this episode is, which is the event, it's the reunion.

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And so the fact that Davros is just building a bomb is pretty pedestrian.

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I mean, that's Doctor Who boilerplates.

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And, hey, do you think you got the idea from Kara in Revelation of the Dialects?

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What are you going to do, Davris?

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I'm going to build a bomb, a bomb, a great big bomb.

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But also the logic of it doesn't work.

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That's rare for Russell.

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The logic, if that doesn't work, because it's a bomb that will supposedly wipe out all other dimensions except for the Daleks.

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But if you think about other dimensions, there will be other dimensions there where the Daleks have built this bomb and the doctor hasn't been able to stop them, and so they will have decinated it and wiped out all dimensions.

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There is that issue about possible and actual worlds, which is, yes, it doesn't sort of quite work if you think of those worlds as possibilities, but somehow able to interact with one another.

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There's a whole sort of kind of philosophy that deals with things like probabilities and might and should by positing imaginary possible worlds.

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I think these have to be a different kind of world than that for this to work.

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I think the reality bomb is a great idea, and it's absolutely Russell Techno Babble in that it does exactly what it says on the tin.

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It's a bomb that blows up reality.

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You know what I mean?

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Mum is not sitting next to you on the couch saying, what's a reality bomb, right?

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Like, it's all just very clear what it is.

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And I think as well that it is the payoff of that conversation that Davros has with the doctor in Genesis of the Daleks, about wiping everything out.

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And I read about time, uh, before recording this, and they mention dialogue, even in destiny of the Daleks, where Davros talks about creating weaponry that will destroy all mass that it encounters.

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And so Davros has always wanted to destroy everything.

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And so, you know, we bring him back, what's he doing?

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He's destroying everything.

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Yeah, it totally works.

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I get I get what you're saying.

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For me, it's the weakest thing where my grand plan is just to destroy everything.

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I don't I don't know.

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I just...

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No, no.

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It's not subtle, you know.

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You know, we get reality bomb, time lock.

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What do we have?

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we've got the Osterhagen key.

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I love that name.

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Osterhagen.

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It's like ice cream.

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It's an anagram of Earth's Gone.

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There you go.

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How many brain cells did they use up on that one?

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And again, in this episode, like last episode, we had misdirection with Jack saying, oh, Martha's down, right?

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So to try and make you think that she's dead when she uses Project Indigo.

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Here with the TARDIS going into the core of the Dalek crucible.

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You know, it's misdirection that it's going to be torn apart.

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Do you know what I'm saying?

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Yeah.

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I mean, we know we know that neither of those things are going to happen.

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We know that Martha's not going to be killed and the TARDIS is not going to be destroyed.

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And we know that Donna's not going to be killed by something that happens early in the episode.

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But it's classic Russell misdirection with saying something and the characters believing one thing, but we know that it's not what it appears to be.

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Can I just say the Darnit crucible?

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It always reminds me that it's situated between Altos and Zeos.

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Like I just always look at it and I always think that it is the shadows spaceship in the middle of that.

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That's what's controlling it.

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It's mentalis.

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Mentalis is in charge of the Dalek fleet.

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Maybe that means that the shadow proclamation is actually the shadows proclamation.

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I think as well, talking about Martha.

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We've seen throughout this season that she's been a little bit short-changed in kind of the things that she's been given to do.

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She's been brought back and then not really rewarded the audience much, and the recurring problem happens here as well, because Martha's brought back as part of the, as part of the team.

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But then she has very little connection to the main action and no relationship to speak of with the doctor.

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So it's a little bit like when Harry was brought back in the Android invasion.

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You've got the familiar face, but they're not doing the things that you want them to do.

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She's there in practice, but not spirit.

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She kind of rattles around unit HQ spouting generic lines and then goes off into the D plot with the Hagendars key.

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And that's it.

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But, but she gets to go to Germany and we get to hear Daleks in German.

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And then she gets that moment with Rose when she gets to say, oh, he found you.

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Is that the lines?

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Yeah, I love that line.

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And that payoff is just amazing.

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It gets my heart every single time when she says that.

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And she's the one that sort of is being warm and fuzzy after Rose has been a thoroughly old cow like in the previous episode.

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Whereas here, it then gives Rose the impetus to say, oh, she's good or whatever, right?

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A change of tune.

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Like it's actually quite nice to see that Martha effects rose.

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And it's also fixing a problem at the heart of the program in this era, and that is how badly Martha was treated.

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And Martha goes, you know, like Martha just says, he found you.

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I'm, you know, she's happy for Rose, she's not resentful.

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You can see that the character has moved on.

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She's over the doctor and that's some that's some character growth.

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Something that she wasn't really given in her own season.

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It's a it's a nice a nice character B. Yeah, and I mean, Freema's doing everything that she can with it, I think.

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It's just, I can't shake the feeling all throughout this season, and especially in this episode, that she's the B team.

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She's not given kind of the big scenes with the doctor, which Rose and Donneget.

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She shuffled off a little bit, like the spinoffs are, and it's just a little bit of a shame.

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I guess the price that you pay for having so many guest characters is that not every one of them gets to do everything.

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I do think that Martha's sort of competence and things is really interesting and the way that Donna's criticism of what the doctor has done to Martha gets followed up here.

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So remember in the Santarin stratagem, where Donna actually sort of tells the doctor off for the fact that Martha is now a soldier in unit.

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And we learn, in fact, that Martha's role is a bit more complicated than that.

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But that's at the heart of what's being said here, I think, in this episode.

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So you get 2 groups of companions.

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You get Martha and then you get Sarah, Jack and Jackie and Mickey, but basically Sarah and Jack, isn't it?

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Both come up with a plan.

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And their plan is to blow everything up.

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And, and, and Donna and the other doctor come up with a plan and what's their plan to kind of rush at Davros with a big gun?

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Is it to blow everything up?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Everybody seems to be blowing everything up.

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Davros is blowing everything up.

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Sarah Jane's got that emerald crystal thing to blow everything up with.

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Martha's going to blow everything up and then they've got the ray gun to blow up.

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And also Davros and the Daleks are going to blow everything up.

207
00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:35.160
Hooray.

208
00:17:35.220 --> 00:17:43.799
But so, and so that means that the doctor's companions are more like the Daleks than they are like the doctor.

209
00:17:43.859 --> 00:17:53.460
And remember the doctor's reaction of horror when he discovers what Jack and Sarah and Martha are all intending to do.

210
00:17:53.700 --> 00:18:11.460
But do you think, though, that that's actually, that's also selling the fact that these characters have all experienced the Daleks, or at least the lead characters that are making those decisions, know how much of a threat the Daleks are, and so they are willing to go that far?

211
00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:13.259
Oh yeah, no, sure.

212
00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:20.339
It's a case of they wouldn't do this, but it's this or the universe.

213
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:23.039
And it helps sell the threat.

214
00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:23.880
Do you know what I mean?

215
00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:32.880
Because, I mean, basically by this point, we're all on the crucible, which is just a couple of sets where we're all standing around talking to one another over video conferences. you know what I mean?

216
00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:34.500
cement factory or something, isn't it?

217
00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:37.200
Another of Ed Thomas's old cement factories.

218
00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:43.140
And all of that's sort of quite fun, but it is a little bit kind of static, I think.

219
00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:49.019
And so there's a lot of sort of word peril. standing around in a cement factory.

220
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:49.619
Yeah, that's right.

221
00:18:49.619 --> 00:18:55.200
I think this is definitely Russell lampshading what the arc that he's given, a lot of these characters.

222
00:18:55.259 --> 00:19:03.839
But I have to say, I'm not entirely on board with it because really, every character who Russell is introduced has ended up being a bit gun tooting.

223
00:19:03.900 --> 00:19:08.220
So what Davros says, it's an element of self-criticism is actually correct.

224
00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:21.900
You can't imagine in the old series that you would have brought back old companions and suddenly they would be hard bitten kind of gunslingers, you know, Polly or Joe. Exactly.

225
00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:30.599
Dodo would sit on the reality bomb and detonate it by accident after giving everyone syphilis. forgotten that.

226
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:35.460
But I'm not entirely on board with those trajectories.

227
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:36.960
I do wonder why it was done.

228
00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:41.519
I mean, Mickey, for instance, at this stage has just morphed into Noel Clark.

229
00:19:41.579 --> 00:19:43.980
There's very little of original Mickey left.

230
00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:44.880
It's now Noel Clark.

231
00:19:44.940 --> 00:19:47.460
There's even that comment about beefcake, isn't there?

232
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:49.559
When does Jack hug him and say something about it?

233
00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:50.339
Cheesecake beef.

234
00:19:52.140 --> 00:19:59.880
I want to see, I want to see a big finish spinoff series called Smith and Jones with Mickey Smith and Martha Jones.

235
00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:01.259
Yeah, I think it'd be great.

236
00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:03.000
It's clearly where they're heading at the end.

237
00:20:03.059 --> 00:20:06.480
We'll get to that, but I'm amazed they haven't got there yet.

238
00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:08.700
Should I say it 3 times?

239
00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:15.480
I think it's Russell making the episode about something when it doesn't necessarily have to be.

240
00:20:15.539 --> 00:20:19.079
The whole point of this, like we were talking about last week, is that it's event television.

241
00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:23.880
This is Russell overlaying kind of something character on top of it.

242
00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:25.680
And I'm, I, I like that.

243
00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:26.160
That fine.

244
00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:29.039
I'm just not sure we had to end up here.

245
00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:36.599
Except, though, that what is the doctor's solution in contrast to this?

246
00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:45.000
So the doctor's companions come up with will blow up the crucible or will blow up the world or will Russia Davros with a big gun?

247
00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:49.140
And what is the solution to the Daleks in this situation?

248
00:20:49.200 --> 00:21:06.420
And the solution is, and Donna gets to do it, because it's metacrisis Donna, at this point, she gets to run in and she defeats the daleks by making them ridiculous and by being funny.

249
00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:09.359
So she comes out, she's super verbal.

250
00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:15.059
And that thing about, you know, like Donna's a bit dim and can't point out Germany on a map or whatever.

251
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:15.839
Thank goodness.

252
00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:17.819
Martha was able to point out Germany on map.

253
00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:18.359
Exactly.

254
00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:27.359
And then suddenly Catherine Tate comes out and she is every bit as smart and as verbal as David Tennant.

255
00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:30.839
She is unbelievable at that moment.

256
00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:33.059
It's such a tremendous performance.

257
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:42.359
And she solves the problem by typing because she's a temp and we learned that she types at 100 words per minute in the last episode.

258
00:21:42.420 --> 00:21:53.460
And so she solves the problem by being incredibly funny and fun to watch and by typing and by making the Daleks go round and round in circles.

259
00:21:53.519 --> 00:22:01.019
Let's make them go this way and they even give her a big knob that she can turn to make the Darlies go one direction or another direction.

260
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:10.380
And so the solution for Doctor Who isn't, you have a big gun or you have a big bomb or something like that, and that's how you win.

261
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:18.900
You win by being more fun than the villains, by being smarter and more compelling to watch.

262
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:26.640
And so, this time, I think for the 1st time, I saw what the point of all that character stuff was.

263
00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:35.160
I thought it was there just to give Tenet the opportunity to pull a pouty face and feel sorry for himself, you know, oh, I'm terrible me.

264
00:22:35.220 --> 00:22:36.960
I'm turning all my companions into weapons.

265
00:22:37.019 --> 00:22:41.519
But in fact, it's about who the doctor is and why he wins.

266
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:44.700
At the most basic level, and it's perfect.

267
00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:46.259
If everyone's tuning in.

268
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:48.779
They need to know that that's what the doctor's about.

269
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:14.700
I do have to say that I think that Julian's performances, Del Bros, in this episode is just extraordinary, and the lines that he gets to say to the doctor, Some of the, the fact that Davros, and this is in the writing, gets to recognise Sarah Jane, like impossible, that face after all these years.

270
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:23.700
That is just brilliant, and it's such a payoff. for all of us who have known her for this long that she's elevated that status that he actually recognises.

271
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:26.640
The moment a 1000 fanboys read to reach for the cleanness.

272
00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:29.099
But it's so good, isn't it?

273
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:30.420
It doesn't ruin anything.

274
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:38.880
It's appalling and it gets gives both of them a chance to act and it lifts Sarah into a more mythic status.

275
00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:41.160
I mean, she's already the lead of her own program.

276
00:23:41.220 --> 00:24:03.900
She gets to use the Sonic lipstick at one point, you know, but now she's entered into this sort of, you know, she has a relationship with someone who has mythic status, the creator of the Daleks and someone who was involved in the time war and all of that weird time war kind of language, you know, Davros was there.

277
00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:08.099
I think in the old series, companions didn't get mythic status.

278
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:12.599
They might have been there, sort of important stories, but the series was not about being mythic.

279
00:24:12.660 --> 00:24:14.400
It was just episodic adventures.

280
00:24:14.460 --> 00:24:20.339
Whereas the new series has elevated the doctor to being mythic and elevating Sarah alongside him is very fishing.

281
00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:21.960
It's wonderful.

282
00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:30.180
I was like the fact that Davros is now in a league of villains where he gets to call the companion Ms. Tyler rather than Rose.

283
00:24:30.180 --> 00:24:31.619
That goes a long way.

284
00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:39.539
You know, this story could have been even longer than the 65 minute slot.

285
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:41.279
There's a lot of cuts.

286
00:24:41.339 --> 00:24:42.299
Yeah.

287
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:57.599
Like, initially, we had an explanation of how you grow a TARDIS, but, um, you know, the doctor was supposed to give the metacrisis doctor some corals so he could grow his own TARDIS and fly around the alternate universe.

288
00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:10.799
Um, And there was a scene as the TARDIS materialises at the end of it, the episode where Donna hears it and has a moment of of remembrance.

289
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:16.859
And then, and then, and then sort of forgets and turns around and goes back to a conversation on the phone.

290
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:24.000
Um, This episode is so full and then, you know, like, but there was so much more that they actually had to trim out of it.

291
00:25:24.059 --> 00:25:30.240
There's there's like maybe 10 minutes of footage that was probably on the cutting room floor.

292
00:25:30.299 --> 00:25:32.940
But for those, I don't mind those ones being cut.

293
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:36.299
Sometimes I think those things actually help an episode much better.

294
00:25:37.019 --> 00:25:41.400
Going back to Dabros and his performance and what he gets to do.

295
00:25:41.460 --> 00:25:54.059
I mean, the fact that he talks about the doctor's soul being revealed and you take ordinary people and fashion them into weapons, I know you didn't particularly like that, Peter, but I actually think it ties in really well with everything that Russell's tried to do.

296
00:25:54.119 --> 00:26:03.180
And then we get that, how many people have died in your name, flashback sequence, from the new series, like going back to series one.

297
00:26:03.299 --> 00:26:06.059
And it's so affecting.

298
00:26:06.119 --> 00:26:16.559
I think that, again, it's not the sort of thing that you would put up within anything other than a sort of big giant, you know, final finale for the era.

299
00:26:16.619 --> 00:26:19.200
It is a little bit indulgent.

300
00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:22.140
I think it's inexcusable that Adric is not there.

301
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:23.759
Well, we don't care.

302
00:26:23.819 --> 00:26:26.400
That's really the reason, Catarina.

303
00:26:26.579 --> 00:26:29.880
But it is great to see.

304
00:26:29.940 --> 00:26:31.259
I mean, it is sort of really fun.

305
00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:35.640
So Dave Tennant gets to do 2 roles in this episode.

306
00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:49.799
His normal doctor, his newly regenerated, in love with myself, doctor, and um, the doctor with one heart, who's half human or maybe not, but does go oi, oi, oi, a bit.

307
00:26:49.859 --> 00:26:53.640
What do you think of his performance as the doctor in blue?

308
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:58.380
David Turner's always been a lesser performance in blue, I'm just putting it out there.

309
00:26:58.859 --> 00:27:01.259
What are you saying about series three?

310
00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:14.279
I like this idea, and I think that it ties into what I said before about the story's doing about the doctor's character.

311
00:27:14.940 --> 00:27:30.779
So just as Donna gets to be very doctor-ish, the doctor gets to be sort of very Donna-ish, and that's sort of reinforcing the idea that they're the same in all sorts of ways, which the season has been doing ever since partners in crime.

312
00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:42.059
And it gives the chance for 2 performers who really like one another and have been working closely together for, what, 9 months or whatever to do their best impersonations to each other.

313
00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:44.819
Yeah, yeah, I think they do it really well.

314
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:47.819
I think both of them do it like tremendously well.

315
00:27:48.480 --> 00:28:00.180
I think there's a reason why they give the meta crisis doctor, a kind of Eccleston style jumper under his suit.

316
00:28:00.299 --> 00:28:17.519
Um, like, I think that that's sort of, that's sort of clear because what happens, you know, Donna comes out and is making the Dalek spin around and be silly and fun, and then the metacrisis doctor comes and has them all destroyed, you know, gets them all killed.

317
00:28:17.579 --> 00:28:20.220
And our doctor is super angry about that.

318
00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:30.119
He doesn't like that at all and, you know, calls that doctor on, on that and then, you know, ends up exiling him as a result.

319
00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:31.500
He can't be allowed to stay.

320
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:36.779
But that's the doctor and Tennant will say this later in the episode.

321
00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:44.339
That's the doctor that we 1st met, the doctor who had wiped out all the daleks. who needs a rose to heal him in some ways.

322
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:45.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

323
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:47.220
Yeah.

324
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:52.319
So, you know, there's a lot of sort of fun business around those, the 2 doctors sort of thing.

325
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:56.579
Darlik Khan calls him like the threefold doctor or something.

326
00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:59.339
It's like...

327
00:28:59.339 --> 00:29:02.099
The threefold man, and that's Donna.

328
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:07.380
The doctor and the metacrisis doctor all get to be the doctor sort of here.

329
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:09.119
So he's the threefold man.

330
00:29:09.180 --> 00:29:19.559
And so so we get to see the journey that that Doctor Who has been on since the beginning of series one, you know, we back to that doctor.

331
00:29:19.619 --> 00:29:20.160
Yeah.

332
00:29:21.059 --> 00:29:21.480
Makes sense.

333
00:29:21.539 --> 00:29:23.279
And Jack gets a joke.

334
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:25.079
Yes.

335
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:26.460
What does he say?

336
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:34.799
He's distracted or thinking of some improper thoughts about, I can't remember the line of dialogue, but it does sound like he wants to have sex with all 3 of them.

337
00:29:35.940 --> 00:29:38.220
My dreams have all come true.

338
00:29:38.700 --> 00:29:43.259
I personally think it would have been completed if Jack had hit on Dalek Khan.

339
00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:45.000
Can you imagine that little scene?

340
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:54.480
What do we think of Dalek Khan?

341
00:29:54.539 --> 00:29:56.460
Oh, Dalek Khan's amazing.

342
00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:59.400
I mean, it's a really great vocal performance from Nick Briggs.

343
00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:02.819
And like, I like the conception of it as well.

344
00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:07.079
Like, both Rose and Martha have met Dalek Khan?

345
00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:07.859
Yes.

346
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:08.759
Yes.

347
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:19.559
And I think Martha may mention Dalek Khan by name because she knows that Dalek Khan is kind of the only survivor of the cult of Scaro, as far as she's concerned, the only surviving Dalek, I think.

348
00:30:19.619 --> 00:30:22.859
So she knows about him as well.

349
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:24.960
The doctor says you've met him before.

350
00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:26.279
Yeah, yeah, to Rose.

351
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:27.480
That's right Yeah.

352
00:30:27.539 --> 00:30:29.700
I like how he can make prophecy.

353
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:30.240
Yeah.

354
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:30.839
Yeah.

355
00:30:30.900 --> 00:30:33.539
Like everybody else can make prophecies as well.

356
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:44.460
But one thing I did pick up this time is the fact that he fell through like his temporal shift, took him to the time war to get Davros out of that situation, which I never really had picked up on before.

357
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:45.720
So it was quite interesting.

358
00:30:45.779 --> 00:30:50.880
I love the way Nick delivers that line where he says, I...

359
00:30:50.940 --> 00:30:53.400
It's so fun, isn't it?

360
00:30:53.460 --> 00:31:01.500
And he, I reckon they sell that he can do prophecies because of the weird relationship he's had with time. he's gone into this odd space-time event.

361
00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:13.440
And but then the fact that he flew back into the time war, rescued Davros so he could use Davros to destroy all the Daleks.

362
00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:15.180
Yes.

363
00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:18.240
I have to say that I think about time is right about this.

364
00:31:18.299 --> 00:31:20.339
It is one hell of a baroque plan.

365
00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:22.319
So he rescues Davros.

366
00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:38.220
And Davros then creates 100s of 1000s of Daleks so that Dalek Khan can destroy them all, you know, because they're bad, it does seem like he could have just stopped before step one of that plan.

367
00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:42.000
And back out without saving... right.

368
00:31:42.059 --> 00:31:43.799
And everything would have been fine.

369
00:31:43.859 --> 00:31:46.500
It was just so he could get the last giggle.

370
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:52.980
Yeah, look, I'm not sure that that revelation quite works.

371
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:56.220
It was Dalek Khan, who'd realised that we were all bad.

372
00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:02.880
You know, the 2nd cult of Scaro guy just sort of suddenly say, actually, Daleks are not such a great idea.

373
00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:09.660
Without him, we wouldn't have that incredible prop and that amazing puppet and the incredible performance.

374
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:14.039
And he pre-steals John Hurtz lines from Day with the Doctor.

375
00:32:14.099 --> 00:32:14.700
Yes.

376
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:17.220
He says no more, doesn't he?

377
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:19.799
He sees the Daleks and says no more.

378
00:32:19.859 --> 00:32:26.819
And I have to think that Moffat told that because he, I think he loves Russell's Doctor Who.

379
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:35.460
And that story is a response to Russell's Doctor Who, the day of the Doctor, is very much about how Russell had brought the show back.

380
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:36.839
Oh yeah, totally.

381
00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:38.160
So I think that's deliberate.

382
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:40.200
I'm going to, I'm going to believe that anyway.

383
00:32:40.259 --> 00:32:44.640
And it fits still so, because the cult of Scaro were meant to be the thinkers.

384
00:32:44.700 --> 00:32:48.960
And so you had Dalek Sec, who was thinking of one way of progressing the Dalek race.

385
00:32:49.019 --> 00:32:56.640
This is Dalek Khan, who's been through all that, thinking about where is this going to end up and coming to really the only conclusion that he could?

386
00:33:02.700 --> 00:33:09.960
Of course, the image which these episodes of building 2 is all of our favourites standing around the TARDIS console triumphantly.

387
00:33:10.019 --> 00:33:11.220
It's just irresistible.

388
00:33:11.339 --> 00:33:17.819
Um, and I've read criticisms of, you know, how can the TARDIS too, the Earth home and things like that?

389
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:19.319
And I mean, who cares?

390
00:33:19.740 --> 00:33:30.299
Kill the Moon, I think, is criticised correctly for its ridiculous science, because it's in service to an equally stupid plot, and that's the reason no one likes technobabble.

391
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:34.500
But here we don't care because the science is dodgy because it's not important.

392
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:37.200
The emotional payoff is all we care about here.

393
00:33:37.259 --> 00:33:46.019
And that image of everyone triumphantly working together and having a laugh and, you know, basically ending the plot on a positive note is all we need.

394
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:47.880
No, no, not you, Jackie.

395
00:33:47.940 --> 00:33:51.960
Oh my god, I love that so much. just stay there.

396
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:58.140
That scene is filled with beauty because you've got Jackie who's laughing about that.

397
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:00.839
She takes it in good humour and she giggles with the others.

398
00:34:00.900 --> 00:34:04.740
You got Martha looking directly down the camera when she does her thing.

399
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:06.180
She's inviting the audience in.

400
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:07.019
It's great.

401
00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:15.000
And and the wonderful thing where um, I think Jack is hugging Sarah, and Donna just pushes Sarah out of the way.

402
00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:19.500
Shot goes in. flying across the console room.

403
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:21.059
It's so good.

404
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:24.719
It's Donna's little comment, Jack, I think you're the best.

405
00:34:24.780 --> 00:34:26.880
Yes, you're doing a very good job.

406
00:34:26.940 --> 00:34:35.760
But I just love the fact that it's a new thing to the TARDIS that it's supposed to have all these people operating it to make it fly correctly.

407
00:34:35.820 --> 00:34:48.000
It's just, it's just a lovely new element and and, and in that also, Rose and the doctor get to talk to Gwen Cooper and, and are you from an old Cardiff family, like just a little nugget in there, back to series one?

408
00:34:48.059 --> 00:34:50.400
That's a new adventures reference, isn't it?

409
00:34:50.460 --> 00:34:56.519
I think Gareth Roberts invents the idea that the TARDIS should have more than you should have 6 pilots.

410
00:34:57.059 --> 00:35:12.780
So it had been in the new adventures, but here's what I think is interesting is that set is deliberately huge, when it's 1st introduced, and it's deliberately huge in order to make it clear how lonely the doctor is.

411
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:20.699
You know, the doctor is by himself in this massive cavernous space and travelling all the way on his own.

412
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:25.559
And in that scene, that's a response to that idea, isn't it?

413
00:35:25.619 --> 00:35:33.780
The room is now full of people laughing and enjoying themselves, people who love the doctor and who the doctor loves.

414
00:35:33.900 --> 00:35:36.420
They give Sarah that wonderful line.

415
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:40.800
You know, you act like such a lonely man, but you've got the biggest family in the universe.

416
00:35:40.860 --> 00:35:42.780
It's so good.

417
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:44.940
I cry for the last 10 minutes of this episode.

418
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:47.039
Yeah, he hasn't created soldiers.

419
00:35:47.099 --> 00:35:48.059
He's created family.

420
00:35:48.119 --> 00:35:48.659
Yeah.

421
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:52.380
And all the fireworks are spontaneous fireworks around the world.

422
00:35:54.659 --> 00:35:57.480
And Worth returns to proper police.

423
00:35:59.099 --> 00:36:03.000
And that's the joy, Doctor Who, that humour that...

424
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:07.260
But yes, the towing, the towing the earth back is perfect.

425
00:36:07.260 --> 00:36:10.739
And it happens for plot and emotional reasons.

426
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:14.219
They use the magnetron to return the other...

427
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:16.079
I think they literally call it the magnetron.

428
00:36:16.139 --> 00:36:20.699
They use the magnitron to return the other 26 planets and guess which planet is left.

429
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:24.659
You know, it has to be Earth so that we can tow it home ourselves.

430
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:25.559
It's glory.

431
00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:29.579
Is Magatron not the thing that Ian and Barbara came across in the Skaro jungle?

432
00:36:30.300 --> 00:36:32.280
the Magnodon.

433
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:40.199
No, it's what the time lord is used to move the earth and its entire constellation across the galaxy.

434
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:41.460
Magnetron?

435
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:41.880
Yeah.

436
00:36:42.300 --> 00:36:44.340
Just wonderful.

437
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:45.360
It's such a great scene.

438
00:36:45.420 --> 00:36:46.679
And it's that thing.

439
00:36:46.739 --> 00:36:53.699
There seems to be this sort of constant fear of Doctor Who going too big and being too exciting.

440
00:36:53.760 --> 00:37:03.659
No, you know, we can't have the Tartars towing the earth back into its proper place because that's too much fun and simply too exciting.

441
00:37:03.719 --> 00:37:14.280
And the TARDIS can't do that because even though it's completely made up, I know exactly how it works, you know, like it's it's a terrible instinct, I think.

442
00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:16.679
That's why I'm not Showrunner.

443
00:37:20.099 --> 00:37:22.920
Oh boy.

444
00:37:22.980 --> 00:37:25.440
And then you get all those farewells.

445
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:35.940
Outside the Tartars, with Sarah, um, And Mickey, saying goodbye to Jackie as well inside, you know?

446
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:40.019
Yeah. and and the whole Martha, Jack, and Mickey thing.

447
00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:42.239
I just had tears watching it, you know?

448
00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:45.780
Um, I can't, were they all going to be in tortured?

449
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:46.260
Was that the plan?

450
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:48.719
Certainly Mickey was, wasn't he, James?

451
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:52.079
I think they all were in Children of Earth, yeah.

452
00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:55.920
Yeah, there was there was a plan behind that, yeah.

453
00:37:56.219 --> 00:38:04.260
I think it didn't happen because that's when Noel's career really takes off in a huge way.

454
00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:05.219
Like, isn't it?

455
00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:10.559
Like he'd had some success with, um, kidulthood.

456
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:14.460
And then, and then like he was incredibly busy.

457
00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:17.699
So that's why that didn't happen, I believe.

458
00:38:17.820 --> 00:38:24.599
And does Chibnell poach Martha for Law and Order UK, which is why we get the lowest character in children of Earth?

459
00:38:24.659 --> 00:38:28.079
Like, I think I think Martha would have done that.

460
00:38:28.139 --> 00:38:29.940
So that was that was the idea of that.

461
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:44.280
But I love that we got a chance to see Mickey and Jackie properly interacting as well because I think this is a thing about this episode, Nathan, you don't see Mickey and Rose at all.

462
00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:45.900
They barely share a line.

463
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:47.519
It's all Mickey and Jackie.

464
00:38:47.579 --> 00:38:49.800
But that's the important relationships.

465
00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:50.940
Yes, isn't it?

466
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:52.019
It's so important.

467
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:58.800
Remember how lost Jackie is without Mickey in Love and Monsters.

468
00:38:58.860 --> 00:39:01.500
Like, obviously, she misses Rose.

469
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:08.159
Because Rose is away, but she's lost Mickey kind of permanently at that point.

470
00:39:08.219 --> 00:39:11.699
And, you know, she tells Elton about him.

471
00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:30.539
And even the where's Mickey question that Jackie asks at the end of the age of steel when Mickey doesn't come back, and their relationship in aliens of London and World War 3, where they go from this antagonism to being really close.

472
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:43.079
You know, where where Mickey says to Jackie stopped me, you know, like I won't send these missiles towards Rose and the Doctor, if you stop me, you know, they're there together.

473
00:39:43.139 --> 00:39:46.800
And that relationship, I think, is absolutely underestimated.

474
00:39:46.860 --> 00:39:49.320
The beginning of Christmas invasion, you know, like all of it.

475
00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:53.340
And they share Doctor Who's 1st cliffhanger of the new era together.

476
00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:59.400
And let's not forget, they've come a long way since that entire year when Jackie accused Mickey of murdering Rose.

477
00:40:00.780 --> 00:40:04.619
The fact that he says, I'm going to miss you more than anyone.

478
00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:05.820
Yeah.

479
00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:07.199
And he means Rose.

480
00:40:07.260 --> 00:40:07.739
Yeah.

481
00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:09.000
It's just brilliant.

482
00:40:09.059 --> 00:40:14.519
And then Jackie just gets one of the most fantastic lines, bloody Norway.

483
00:40:15.420 --> 00:40:20.219
So after we drop everyone off, we're in Bad Wolf Bay, right?

484
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:38.099
And that, for me, like my favourite line from Jackie there is where she calls the doctor a plum because she tricks him into thinking that the baby that she was pregnant with in doomsday, that she named him the doctor.

485
00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:42.599
And then he believes her and then she makes fun of it, which is just wonderful.

486
00:40:42.659 --> 00:40:45.480
You know, that's what Don has been doing all season.

487
00:40:45.539 --> 00:40:47.280
And of course, Jackie can do it.

488
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:52.679
After he got the upper hand in the Tartars console room, she gets to make fun of him.

489
00:40:52.739 --> 00:40:58.320
You know, he might be good at Tartars consoles, but she's much better at people than he is.

490
00:40:58.380 --> 00:41:02.280
That's true What do we think of that scene?

491
00:41:02.340 --> 00:41:07.079
The final resolution with the Rose and the other doctor?

492
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:10.079
Billy Piper hated it, didn't she?

493
00:41:10.139 --> 00:41:16.980
Because she'd been lumbered with an inferior, an inferior copy of the doctor.

494
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:23.159
I mean, saying she hated it, maybe overstating a little bit, but she's definitely on record saying she didn't feel it.

495
00:41:23.219 --> 00:41:24.840
She didn't.

496
00:41:24.900 --> 00:41:27.119
It felt like Rose had had sloppy seconds.

497
00:41:27.179 --> 00:41:32.460
Yeah, but she, um, she felt that it wasn't, it wasn't right for the character.

498
00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:47.579
It was a disservice to the character of Rose and of the doctor and their relationship that, you know, she got palmed off with this broken, sort of 2nd hand, poorly copied version.

499
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:58.980
We talked earlier in this episode about the fact that Rose does rescue the doctor in some ways like she did with Eccleston back at the beginning of the series.

500
00:41:59.099 --> 00:42:07.320
But it felt to me a little bit, like Rose had had her agency removed, but the doctor sort of deciding what she needed and what was right for her.

501
00:42:07.380 --> 00:42:11.519
Um, almost like sort of Susan, you know, 50 years earlier.

502
00:42:11.579 --> 00:42:12.719
He's very into that this season.

503
00:42:12.780 --> 00:42:14.940
He does it to Donna as well.

504
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:16.199
We'll get to that.

505
00:42:16.260 --> 00:42:20.639
But I think, you know, like it's not entirely clear.

506
00:42:20.699 --> 00:42:30.900
I guess that Rose and Jackie have to go back to the parallel world, whereas before they were trapped, this time we have a choice, but only for a short period of time.

507
00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:37.739
And they have to go back because that's where Tony and Pete are. where home is now.

508
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:40.139
Yeah, that's where that's where they live.

509
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:53.219
So it's not quite, I think the job, I think the problem is the doctor just assuming that it's Rose's job to fix him, you know, that a woman's job is partly to fix a broken man, you know.

510
00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:55.739
And I'm not sure that's all that good.

511
00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:59.820
That's very Moffat conception of a woman's role, isn't it?

512
00:42:59.940 --> 00:43:00.960
Well, I don't know.

513
00:43:01.019 --> 00:43:02.940
I think Moffat's been unfair, James.

514
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:10.139
I think that Moffatt's ideas about men and women are more complex than that and that he's more likely to critique.

515
00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:12.840
I'm just being a bit, he's more likely to critique that position.

516
00:43:12.900 --> 00:43:14.880
Todd, what do you think about it?

517
00:43:15.179 --> 00:43:18.960
At the time, I was okay.

518
00:43:19.019 --> 00:43:21.780
Like, what are you going to do with this other doctor?

519
00:43:21.780 --> 00:43:24.059
And it was sort of a resolution.

520
00:43:24.119 --> 00:43:30.179
Um, she gets a doctor of sorts and I don't hate it.

521
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:32.159
I know, particularly love it.

522
00:43:32.280 --> 00:43:35.699
It's a resolution to her character.

523
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:36.960
What else is her character going to do?

524
00:43:37.019 --> 00:43:44.940
Is she going to reject her mother and that world and stay on this world and travel with the doctor, but she can't because she's off being famous and doing other things.

525
00:43:45.059 --> 00:43:47.940
So, we have to come up with something that's half reasonable.

526
00:43:47.940 --> 00:43:51.659
And, I think it's at least half reasonable and I'm okay with that.

527
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:59.280
If she does get a doctor who can say that he loves her, even though for some reason...

528
00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:00.960
Because Doctor Who can never say that.

529
00:44:01.019 --> 00:44:04.739
I don't know why we don't show that on screen because that would have been surprising.

530
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:06.179
I think they sort of shied back.

531
00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:07.739
I mean, there's no way.

532
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:11.039
There's no other way of reading that whispering into her ear.

533
00:44:11.099 --> 00:44:12.599
So why not just say it?

534
00:44:12.659 --> 00:44:14.579
You know, Yeah, no, I...

535
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:21.599
And if he'd said it, then it would have really made a clear distinction between the doctor. rather than having to whisper, sweet nothings.

536
00:44:21.659 --> 00:44:23.280
I think it would have been perfect.

537
00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:25.380
In fact, I think it would have sold it. lot more.

538
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:26.579
Yeah.

539
00:44:26.579 --> 00:44:32.699
I just think that doomsday is so easy to understand.

540
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:36.480
It's like 2 people who can't be together for whatever reason.

541
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:39.960
And that's what happens all the time.

542
00:44:40.019 --> 00:44:42.119
Whereas what exactly is going on?

543
00:44:42.179 --> 00:44:54.840
This is just like when you break up with your boyfriend and spend some time apart and then there's an identical version of that boyfriend who comes back and lives with you or something.

544
00:44:54.900 --> 00:44:56.099
Do you know what I mean?

545
00:44:56.159 --> 00:45:00.780
Like, it's just got no real world analogue. impossible to understand how you would feel about that.

546
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:02.699
So what do you do with it?

547
00:45:02.760 --> 00:45:05.699
You can understand doomsday but I can't understand these.

548
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:08.940
It could be like Troy and the 2 Rikers on...

549
00:45:08.940 --> 00:45:12.599
Star Trek, the next generation.

550
00:45:12.659 --> 00:45:14.159
Second chances.

551
00:45:15.059 --> 00:45:18.900
I think it's a problem with Rose coming back.

552
00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:22.739
I mean, obviously Rose had to come back because she's an intrinsic member of the team.

553
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.500
Billy Piper was so popular. totally get that.

554
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:29.039
But the character story was complete with Doomsday.

555
00:45:29.099 --> 00:45:33.780
And so you've got to bring it back and resolve it in a different way, which doesn't work as well.

556
00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:34.500
No.

557
00:45:34.619 --> 00:45:38.760
It might have been a better idea not to go back to Bad Wolf Bay.

558
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:40.800
Do you know what I mean?

559
00:45:40.860 --> 00:45:51.539
Just, I don't know. somehow making it more different because it just seems like a slightly weird and overly complex version of the end of doomsday.

560
00:45:52.139 --> 00:46:00.840
And also on a production level, Bad Wolfbade doesn't look nearly as good because last time it was shot in the middle of winter and this time it's shot in the middle of summer.

561
00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:06.599
So is that that could be read in a way as being a positive thing.

562
00:46:06.659 --> 00:46:12.360
You know, like the weather is good because it's a more positive ending for the character.

563
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:15.059
She's not heartbroken stuck in another universe.

564
00:46:15.179 --> 00:46:18.119
She's in another universe with a copy of the doctor.

565
00:46:18.179 --> 00:46:22.079
Yeah, but also just looks like a beach in Cardiff now.

566
00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:34.199
And so, I guess...

567
00:46:34.199 --> 00:46:38.340
We need to talk about the very end and what happens to Donna.

568
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:42.119
I'm not on board with the normal reading of this, I think.

569
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:49.019
I am a lot less negative towards the doctor's actions here than some people are.

570
00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:50.519
See, I think you're wrong.

571
00:46:50.579 --> 00:46:51.539
It's a violation.

572
00:46:51.659 --> 00:46:54.900
He steals her agency and then kills her.

573
00:46:55.019 --> 00:46:57.480
I've not forgiven Russell.

574
00:46:57.539 --> 00:46:58.559
I've still not forgiven Russell.

575
00:46:58.619 --> 00:47:01.019
But he has to for plot reasons.

576
00:47:01.079 --> 00:47:02.880
She is going to die if he doesn't.

577
00:47:02.940 --> 00:47:04.019
That she could choose to die.

578
00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:06.239
And she would have chosen to die.

579
00:47:06.300 --> 00:47:09.599
But you see, I think you do intervene in people's decisions to die.

580
00:47:09.659 --> 00:47:11.280
I think that's precisely what you do.

581
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:13.980
When someone is choosing to die.

582
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:15.179
You do intervene in it.

583
00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:23.639
And I also think too, that both the doctor and Donna know what the consequences are.

584
00:47:23.699 --> 00:47:25.139
Do you know what I mean?

585
00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:28.139
Like both of them know what's going to happen.

586
00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:32.159
Both of them know what the doctor can do.

587
00:47:32.219 --> 00:47:46.980
And this isn't a situation where someone more powerful is imposing there. their wishes on someone else because the 2 of them are equal and that's what the whole episode's been about.

588
00:47:48.360 --> 00:47:53.340
Like, I don't want to be in a position where I say she could have fought back. if she didn't want it to happen.

589
00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:56.760
Um, because that's that's bad.

590
00:47:57.420 --> 00:48:16.079
There's actually in one of those deleted scenes, there is actually a line, it's really on the nose line where she says, like the doctor, the doctor and Donna travelling through the universe together forever as equals, and that's what he needs, an equal.

591
00:48:16.260 --> 00:48:22.739
I think that it's more complex than that, and I don't think that what the doctor does is obviously wrong.

592
00:48:23.219 --> 00:48:25.440
Because he doesn't want to do it.

593
00:48:25.500 --> 00:48:27.420
He doesn't do it for his own satisfaction.

594
00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:30.420
He doesn't do it because he's going to benefit from it.

595
00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:33.840
He does it for her.

596
00:48:33.900 --> 00:48:46.980
Um, and I think, you know, that that in a situation where someone is, I don't know, it's complicated and I guess it's meant to be complicated.

597
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:48.539
I don't think it's obviously wrong.

598
00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:52.500
I think you intervene when someone is trying to kill themselves ordinarily.

599
00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:54.840
He's doing it to save her pain.

600
00:48:54.900 --> 00:49:05.340
She she knows what the situation is and she knows that this is the only recourse, otherwise she'll die, but it's too painful to take that step because she knows what she's going to lose.

601
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:07.320
So, it's euthanasia.

602
00:49:07.380 --> 00:49:08.760
Yeah, but that's different, I think.

603
00:49:08.820 --> 00:49:09.599
That is different.

604
00:49:09.659 --> 00:49:15.239
And we don't think of euthanasia as acceptable in every circumstance.

605
00:49:15.300 --> 00:49:16.320
Do you know what I mean?

606
00:49:16.380 --> 00:49:22.739
And we certainly wouldn't want someone who was suffering from depression to rock up to dignitas and get themselves off.

607
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:30.719
You know, like it's not, it's, it's just not 100% clear that the doctor's doing something terribly wrong.

608
00:49:31.380 --> 00:49:36.059
But then we see the consequences of it.

609
00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:40.380
And the consequences of it are so brutal to watch. so painful.

610
00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:48.780
Oh, and the way that Sylvia and Wolf react, Sylvia does not forgive him.

611
00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:50.699
She tells him to get out. twice.

612
00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:52.920
Yeah, you've killed my daughter.

613
00:49:52.980 --> 00:50:00.300
You know, like, and Will says, she doesn't say that, but Will says she was better when she was with you.

614
00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:04.440
And there's this whole sort of, I mean, the character is dead.

615
00:50:04.500 --> 00:50:05.099
She's dead.

616
00:50:05.159 --> 00:50:06.840
Well, no, she isn't though.

617
00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:08.820
I think that's wrong because she's there.

618
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:10.199
She's alive and breathing.

619
00:50:10.260 --> 00:50:13.320
She's the same Donna that we 1st met.

620
00:50:13.380 --> 00:50:17.340
And remember that that donor isn't that terrible.

621
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:27.719
And that's, you know, the choice that the script makes in order to play up the doctor's loss and Donna's loss is to make her super trivial.

622
00:50:27.780 --> 00:50:30.900
Like she's having these sort of dumb phone conversations and stuff like that.

623
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:35.400
And we see her just ignoring the doctor and that's super painful to watch as well.

624
00:50:35.460 --> 00:50:38.159
But she's alive.

625
00:50:38.219 --> 00:50:42.599
And just because Dalek Khan says that one of the faithful companions will die.

626
00:50:42.659 --> 00:50:45.000
Well, that was kind of a fake out and he's a Dalek.

627
00:50:45.179 --> 00:50:46.139
We can't trust him.

628
00:50:46.199 --> 00:51:05.940
That's right, and characters don't exist in limbo, just because she is regressed, being regressed to the point she was in Runaway Bride doesn't mean that she's now not going to go on and learn and become a better person and have a better Sylvia and a more kind of understanding wolf, you know, of what she's been through to kind of guide her and influence her.

629
00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:14.039
And we'll see when she comes back in the end of time, that she is a less trivial, less boisterous version of herself.

630
00:51:14.099 --> 00:51:15.000
She has developed.

631
00:51:15.059 --> 00:51:19.260
She just hasn't developed in necessarily the way that we saw and enjoyed.

632
00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:21.480
We'll get that to that in about 6 months time.

633
00:51:22.980 --> 00:51:25.440
And I agree with you, Peter.

634
00:51:25.500 --> 00:51:44.340
I think, although we have the loss of this character, and there is really no choice to be made, um, There's the potential that she can grow and she can learn and she can become a better person, may not be the same person that she ended up being with the doctor, but there is that potential there.

635
00:51:44.400 --> 00:52:07.139
I mean, it's absolutely heartbreaking and very affecting and, and, you know, as it was happening, like, I always think back to my reaction to Janie and Zoe at the end of, um, the war games, and in particular, not to lessen Zoe's time with the doctor, but in particular, Janie, who has come, his growth has been amazing.

636
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:18.239
He will never remember Victoria, probably the closest relationship he had with anybody, and as a child, as a teenager, whenever that was one of the most affecting things ever.

637
00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:25.079
Like for me, I was so just totally and utterly devastated by that and the same feeling with this year.

638
00:52:25.139 --> 00:52:28.199
And yet as an adult, you think about Jamie.

639
00:52:28.260 --> 00:52:40.440
You think, yes, that's terribly sad, but you also think he had that capacity to grow, and he had that capacity to care, and you just know that he's going to go on and have a different, but equally fulfilling life because that's who he is.

640
00:52:40.500 --> 00:52:42.719
Or gets killed on a battlefield.

641
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:44.639
No.

642
00:52:44.699 --> 00:52:46.199
The doctor saved him.

643
00:52:46.260 --> 00:52:56.400
But I love the fact that both through this awful event, Sylvia has grown and will grow and her character will change and she will be a better mother and a better daughter.

644
00:52:56.460 --> 00:53:01.139
And Wolf is always as he was even more so with more heart.

645
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:05.460
And if that's a positive out of takeout of this, then that's what I take out of it.

646
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:18.000
And I'm so glad, James, that in 6 months' time we get to see Donna, again, and we can see some sort of positive rather than just being left at this point where, you know, for her anyway.

647
00:53:18.059 --> 00:53:20.340
It's it's not a good place.

648
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:35.400
At this point, remember that we were going to have a scene where Donna heard the Tartar steam materialise and she sort of recognises it or seems to be struggling to remember what it is or something, but then dismisses it.

649
00:53:35.460 --> 00:53:38.699
And I think they discuss it on the commentary.

650
00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:42.119
It might be Julian Russell on the commentary for this story.

651
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:46.860
And I remember thinking at the time that would have been so much better.

652
00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:50.639
I would have been so much happier if we'd had that scene.

653
00:53:50.699 --> 00:53:59.760
But their instinct is right because it cheats, it undercuts the real loss, I think.

654
00:54:00.059 --> 00:54:03.000
You're looking for consolation and you don't want it.

655
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:04.500
Agreed.

656
00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:12.900
I think, I think, with, you know, like, I mean, this is all, it's all made up.

657
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:14.340
You can make your own rules.

658
00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:25.079
I mean, I agree that, you know, what he does to her saves her life and she can grow and become a different person.

659
00:54:25.139 --> 00:54:26.039
I don't disagree with that.

660
00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:28.980
But it's a made up story.

661
00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:33.480
I just want Catherine Tate to travel through time and space with the doctor forever.

662
00:54:33.539 --> 00:54:34.380
Like that.

663
00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:38.400
Didn't they not, didn't they not even ask her about doing another season?

664
00:54:38.460 --> 00:54:40.679
They just assumed that she didn't want to come back or something like that?

665
00:54:40.739 --> 00:54:42.000
What, like with the Christmas special?

666
00:54:42.059 --> 00:54:45.119
It was the fact that they were going onto the specials, yeah.

667
00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:55.079
But, but you see, the reason that it hits us so hard is it's imagine if you didn't know about the doctor.

668
00:54:55.139 --> 00:55:11.760
Imagine, you know, if you had to stop travelling, you know, like, I'm coming to your place, James, and I am, um, I'm going to firebomb your Doctor Who DVD collection, uh, and you'll never...

669
00:55:11.820 --> 00:55:14.760
And you'll never, ever...

670
00:55:14.760 --> 00:55:19.139
You'll never be able to watch Doctor Who ever again.

671
00:55:19.260 --> 00:55:20.159
And that's what it is.

672
00:55:20.219 --> 00:55:21.179
Do you know what I mean?

673
00:55:21.239 --> 00:55:33.179
It's like for us, you know, the journey that we've had travelling with a doctor ever since we were 10 or whatever that's been so important to us that we've loved so much and we've derived so much pleasure from.

674
00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:37.019
And Donna gets kicked out of that and doesn't even remember it.

675
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:41.400
And so for us, it's the worst conceivable thing that could happen to anyone.

676
00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:48.960
But she actually manages still to live a full rich and satisfying life in spite of that.

677
00:55:49.019 --> 00:55:53.519
It goes back to what we were saying last week about this being an immersive audience experience.

678
00:55:53.579 --> 00:56:07.739
He invites the audience in because it does make you reflect on the fact that Doctor is such a big part of our lives and your social networks and whatever, that without it, it would just be an emptier and sorrier existence, and that's what poor Donner is consigned to.

679
00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:17.699
All right, it's time for picks of the week. and I'm going to start with you, James.

680
00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:28.019
Well, my pick of the week this week is the fabulous series 3 Sarah Jane Adventure story, the wedding of Sarah Jane Smith.

681
00:56:28.199 --> 00:56:32.219
Oh, I love, I love the Sarah Chain Adventures.

682
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:36.119
I possibly more than the show it evolved out of.

683
00:56:36.179 --> 00:56:43.679
It's just so joyous and I wish I had been a child when it was broadcast.

684
00:56:43.739 --> 00:56:46.500
I was, you know, 20 years too old.

685
00:56:46.500 --> 00:56:49.980
Um, at the time, but it's just fantastic.

686
00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:57.659
You get tenant coming back, sort of, as, you know, in a victory lap to stop her making a terrible decision.

687
00:56:57.719 --> 00:57:01.559
Um, Nigel Havers is her, her fiance.

688
00:57:01.619 --> 00:57:02.820
It's just fantastic.

689
00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:07.440
And, you know, you get you the annual evil plot by the trickster.

690
00:57:07.500 --> 00:57:13.079
Um, and it's got Zenya Merton, um, Pingcho from Marco Polo in it.

691
00:57:13.139 --> 00:57:13.739
It's fantastic.

692
00:57:14.099 --> 00:57:16.019
Todd, your face.

693
00:57:17.400 --> 00:57:19.440
Was that your choice, Todd?

694
00:57:19.500 --> 00:57:21.840
No, my choice was stolen.

695
00:57:21.900 --> 00:57:29.579
By the episode, I will listen to of FTE this morning when I was walking around, so I can't recommend Avenue 5 enough.

696
00:57:30.420 --> 00:57:35.579
So somebody else, please come up with another pick while I scramble around here to find something.

697
00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:36.300
Okay.

698
00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:37.860
Peter.

699
00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:53.099
So my pick of the week is the UK US co-production of War of the Worlds, which has just come out, not to be confused with the Pete Harness 3-part version, which was set contemporary to the novel, but a new version.

700
00:57:53.159 --> 00:57:56.039
It's like 8 or 10 episodes, um, and it's set in the current day.

701
00:57:56.099 --> 00:58:01.380
And I think it's quite fitting because we've just seen a war of the world since the stolen earthen journey's end.

702
00:58:01.440 --> 00:58:10.199
Um, It's a bit of a slow burn, so it's not for you if you're looking for action and adventure, but, um, It's got a lot of atmosphere.

703
00:58:10.260 --> 00:58:22.019
It's got sort of interesting aliens that aren't really what you'd expect them to be, and it also stars in one of the leading roles, Thai Tennant, who is the son of David Tennant and Georgia Moffat.

704
00:58:22.139 --> 00:58:22.679
So there we go.

705
00:58:22.739 --> 00:58:23.340
All wrapped up.

706
00:58:23.579 --> 00:58:29.460
Well, my pick of the week. is the Netflix series Tiger King.

707
00:58:31.139 --> 00:58:40.679
Because it always ends in a cliffhanger, and you can just recast it with everybody from Doctor Who, and, you know, there's a lot of people with really bad teeth.

708
00:58:40.739 --> 00:58:44.639
So, you know, um, The big book of British smiles.

709
00:58:44.699 --> 00:58:53.579
Billy Piper, you know, you can she could be Carol, and you can cast whoever else you want in any of the other roles.

710
00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:56.940
I'm only 3 episodes in, but the cliffhangers are wonderful.

711
00:58:57.000 --> 00:59:01.440
Yes, it was huge old Tiger King, I think.

712
00:59:01.500 --> 00:59:03.599
And I really liked it.

713
00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:09.960
And I want, I want to thank you, Todd, for taking it a little bit highbrow after our previous choices.

714
00:59:13.440 --> 00:59:18.480
So my one is one from childhood and I don't know if I've recommended this ever before.

715
00:59:18.539 --> 00:59:27.000
But I'm in a sort of kind of mood where I'm not keen to challenge myself with anything new.

716
00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:37.800
And so I've been reading these books and they are children's books, essentially, by Finnish author Tova Jansen, who died in 2001.

717
00:59:38.039 --> 00:59:40.199
It's a series of 9 books.

718
00:59:40.260 --> 00:59:46.739
They're the movement books, and they were written from sort of 1945 to 1970.

719
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:55.139
And they're about little trolls that sort of live in Finland, and they have a sort of family and stuff like that.

720
00:59:55.260 --> 00:59:59.699
There's a TV show that James is thinking of right now, I think.

721
00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:06.539
Yeah, no, they just made a new adaptation of it. sort of Jennifer Saunders and Matt Berry and all sorts of really fun people.

722
01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:09.659
I really adore them.

723
01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:15.300
They're sort of whimsical and sort of sweet, but they were kind of my introduction to literary fiction.

724
01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:21.900
So the very early ones are all about sort of escaping from floods and comets and magic and sort of strange things.

725
01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:31.739
But later books become very introspective and nothing very much happens, but characters all sort of sit around sort of agonising about things.

726
01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:40.619
And even as a child, I thought that those were superior and more interesting than the more adventurous ones.

727
01:00:40.679 --> 01:00:44.579
But now I recognise that that is actually my introduction to sort of literary fiction.

728
01:00:44.639 --> 01:00:46.559
So they're intellectual wambles.

729
01:00:47.159 --> 01:00:48.659
Maybe.

730
01:00:48.659 --> 01:00:49.679
Maybe.

731
01:00:49.739 --> 01:00:52.260
I was going to say, Nathan, with introspective trolls.

732
01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:55.380
It's a surprise you don't like the Bleak 7 episode animals.

733
01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:25.980
Well, that's all we have time for this week.

734
01:01:26.099 --> 01:01:32.219
We'll be back next week to clean up the mess we've made over the last 13 weeks with our Series 4 retrospective.

735
01:01:32.340 --> 01:01:48.239
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at Flight for Entirety on Facebook, at FTE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger and Jody Interterra.

736
01:01:48.599 --> 01:01:55.860
Until next time, if a skinny man with sideburns tries to touch on the face, you have our permission to slap him.

737
01:01:55.920 --> 01:01:57.539
It's for your own protection.

738
01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:00.300
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

739
01:02:00.360 --> 01:02:01.380
Good night.

740
01:02:01.500 --> 01:02:02.219
Bye-bye.

741
01:02:02.280 --> 01:02:03.119
See you soon.

742
01:02:06.179 --> 01:02:11.340
That was Flight 3 Entirety, starting Todd, B, B, Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffith, and James Selwood.

743
01:02:11.400 --> 01:02:15.119
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane Orberg.

744
01:02:15.179 --> 01:02:21.300
This episode, why he wins, was recorded on the 13th of April 2020, and released on the 7th of June.

745
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:31.739
Well, with one more episode until the end of our series 4 coverage, it's time to thank all the lovely people who joined us on the sofa this series.

746
01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:37.739
Eric Stadnick, Adam Richard, Max Gelbart, Johnny Spandrel, Josh Snares, and Joe Lidstar.

747
01:02:38.820 --> 01:02:41.460
I think we finished it there, do you think?

748
01:02:41.519 --> 01:02:44.280
Well, what about Will saying goodbye?

749
01:02:44.340 --> 01:02:47.159
Have we got anything to say about that, though?

750
01:02:47.219 --> 01:03:03.539
Well, I mean, he looks up at the sky, you know, I look up the sky and I think of you and I think, again, it breaks your heart and then even with the doctor and the TARDIS looking around, it's not like this comedy ending that we've had the last 3 years where he goes, what, what, what, or whatever.

751
01:03:03.599 --> 01:03:04.800
Because they cut that out.

752
01:03:04.860 --> 01:03:05.579
Yeah, yeah.

753
01:03:05.639 --> 01:03:06.599
It's got to be cyber.

754
01:03:06.659 --> 01:03:09.000
Well, they filmed it, but they cut it.

755
01:03:09.059 --> 01:03:15.239
Yeah, which might pell Ben convinced Russell not to include, and it was the right instinct.

756
01:03:15.480 --> 01:03:22.559
Again, it goes back to these choices that they make, these cuts. are actually the right decision.

757
01:03:22.980 --> 01:03:37.860
And then you get him come back and be his companion for 2 episodes at the end of his tenure. getting Bernard Crippens as a Doctor Who companion, again, after like, what, 40 something years is amazing.

758
01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:44.099
And Russell has said that there's a version of the end of time in his head where Donna would have played a much larger role.

759
01:03:44.099 --> 01:03:47.519
And I remember hearing about that and thinking, why couldn't we have had that?

760
01:03:47.579 --> 01:03:48.719
I wanted more Donna.

761
01:03:48.780 --> 01:03:57.900
But actually, the fact that she's a bit of a supporting character in that and she's not playing an integral role underscores the loss that we feel here.

762
01:03:57.960 --> 01:04:01.980
You do get more of her and that's nice, but it doesn't undo anything that's here.

763
01:04:02.039 --> 01:04:05.039
And just a final word on Catherine Tate as well.

764
01:04:05.099 --> 01:04:10.260
Strangely, I didn't truly get, until I was rewatching this episode, how much of a star that she is.

765
01:04:10.320 --> 01:04:16.800
She carries important scenes like the TARDIS destruction and, you know, the whole climax aboard the Dalek ship.

766
01:04:16.860 --> 01:04:18.239
You only need her in shot.

767
01:04:18.300 --> 01:04:19.500
She's all you watch.

768
01:04:19.559 --> 01:04:20.820
She's a star.

769
01:04:20.880 --> 01:04:24.179
So Doctor Who had 2 genuine leads this series.

770
01:04:24.239 --> 01:04:32.400
And I think the only time that's ever happened is maybe Tom Baker and Elizabeth Slaton, maybe, and William Hartnell and William Russell.

771
01:04:32.460 --> 01:04:35.280
I don't think Gogtu has ever had co-leads before.

772
01:04:35.340 --> 01:04:36.360
And that's what she brought to the show.

773
01:04:36.420 --> 01:04:38.880
What do you say about Jacqueline Hill?

774
01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:40.860
No.

775
01:04:40.920 --> 01:04:43.079
Leeds, William Martin William Russell.

776
01:04:43.139 --> 01:04:43.380
Yeah.

777
01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:44.820
Much as I love Jackie.

778
01:04:45.239 --> 01:04:47.579
Alright, that could be the tag, actually.

779
01:04:47.639 --> 01:04:54.239
Because I do like to go out on the, on the, um, Meaningful state.

780
01:04:54.300 --> 01:04:54.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

781
01:04:54.960 --> 01:04:56.699
Feel free to cut any of my blood.

782
01:04:56.760 --> 01:04:59.400
No, no, I feel free to cut everyone's body. not going to be this episode at all.

783
01:04:59.460 --> 01:05:00.119
No way.

784
01:05:00.119 --> 01:05:05.880
You needed to, they needed to be the counterpoint about the, about the thing.

785
01:05:05.940 --> 01:05:06.719
Do you know what I mean?

786
01:05:06.780 --> 01:05:08.760
There needed to be that needed to be said, I think.

787
01:05:08.820 --> 01:05:10.619
Let's do pics of the week.

788
01:05:11.159 --> 01:05:16.139
All right, it's time for picks of the week. and I'm going to start with you, Jane.