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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:45:09

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that for one shining moment was the most important podcast in the whole wide universe.

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It was sometime in episode eight, I think.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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I'm Peter.

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And I'm Todd.

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Well, we've just been through what might be the most extraordinary 13 week period in Doctor Who history.

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More celebrities, more guest stars, more Daleks, and more drowning fish than the show has ever seen before.

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How do we feel about it all now that we've reached the end?

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Let's find out in our series 4 retrospective.

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Welcome to the retrospective.

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I've got three broad topics for us to choose from.

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We've got series 4, Partners in Crime, and my brand new game, House Party, turn left, or turn right.

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So let's start with series 4.

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And here's my 1st question.

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One, two, three, or four.

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I definitely want to say four.

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And I feel bad saying this, and I have said it on the podcast before.

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I think series one is something incredibly special.

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Like, it's really amazing.

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But every year, I think they get better.

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They know what works and what doesn't.

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They're increasing in confidence.

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They're generally getting better at making the show.

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And so my order is literally one, two, three, four, uh, only the other way round, 4321, I think 4 is the best one, uh, and one is merely magnificent.

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But it's not as good as the other ones.

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Nathan, I'm going to agree with you broadly, but in a slightly different order.

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I think 4 is amazing because they just have this exuberance and this kind of this carefree confidence which comes with the fact that they know how to make this show and so it frees them up.

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They freeze them up creatively.

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Um, I actually think series one is probably second.

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I think series one has that very special thing where they don't know what they're doing and that frees them up creatively.

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So it would be 4 in one and then the others, which are very good.

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But 4 is clearly the best, I think.

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James?

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I think I agree totally with you, Nathan.

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It's it's 4321.

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For me, like 4 is top.

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Then down to one.

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Um, one is fresh and new and exciting.

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And 2 is a difficult 2nd child. 2nd child, 2nd child.

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I'm a 2nd child. 2 is a difficult 2nd album.

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Um, 3 is flawed, but has Freema in it, but 4 is just gorgeous.

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It's, you know, it's, everybody's firing on full, like full cylinders, um, Tenant and Tate are just wonderful together.

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And It's that culmination of, of, the 4 years of this new show and all these sort of threads that, um, that Russell had kind of pulled together over, over that time.

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It's, it's, oh, I love series four.

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I think, you know, series 4 and series 10 of the new series for me are the pinnacle of new Doctor Who.

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I don't think they can be bettered.

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James, I would agree.

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Wow, okay.

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Yes.

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Well, I'm going to get some hate mail in a moment.

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So I'm going to go 4312 and I'll just sleep it like that.

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I think that's a pretty good order.

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I think that, you know, Peter's right that one has the advantage of not knowing if it's going to succeed or not.

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And so it's super careful about making sure that it has an appeal to a broad audience, whereas 2 is a little bit smug about its own success, much like the Doctor and Rose actually in that whole season.

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It is.

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Yeah, but I mean, I do think sort of technically there's all sorts of things going on in 2 that they hadn't had the ambition or ability to do in one.

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So that's why it kind of edges it out for me, but it is very close.

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Do you think that the show is perhaps relying too much on monsters from the past, like every season, it's like the Daleks, or the Cyberman or the Master, or Davros and the Daleks this year.

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And then we've got all of this continuity stuff at the end of the season, which I think is brilliant.

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But one of the biggest criticisms of the show, the original series back in the 80s, the show was really eating itself with continuity.

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If there's one thing I'm going to say about Russell at this point in time is that, you know, absolutely fantastic with the family orientation of the show with the families is introduced.

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But if there's one thing, it's sort of like, I kind of go, We're relying on all these nostalgic things from the past.

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Is that a problem?

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Except that I think that they're relying on you being one of the sort of 8 to 10000000 people who've been watching this show.

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Do you know what I mean?

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It's not a niche thing to refer back to something that happened in series one.

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And what Russell has done, and we've said this before, that he reintroduces the most important things about Doctor Who, the Daleks, the cybermen, the master.

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He reintroduces them all in order so that they can be enjoyed by a new generation of fans.

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And I do think, you know, for instance, one of the reasons that the reaction to series 11 was a bit muted was that it didn't do that.

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It went too far in the other direction.

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I have no sympathy for people who complain that the RTD series finales are too big and they have too many Daleks in them and they're too exciting and they really just need to be scaled back a bit.

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And they were too popular.

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That's it.

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And Nathan, I think Russell had the right instinct where he wanted to jettison the canon.

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But that doesn't mean you always had to jettison the cannon.

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I think after 4 years, very popular series that the public was clearly invested in, it's right and good to refer back to its own canon.

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He's created a new history for the show, um, and a more recent history for the show, and that's fine.

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We love that.

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Although, you know, some people don't.

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I think friend of the podcast and contributor to the podcast, Simon Moore might disagree with us there.

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Yes, indeed.

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But I think it adds the texture of this season is just enriched by the mining of that recent history and bringing all of those threads together and it just is such a payoff, you know, in the last 3 episodes and turn left, which is one of my all-time favourite Doctor Who stories.

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It's a really difficult thing, given the show's premise to create a world, because we're somewhere different every week.

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And so how do you create a Doctor Who that takes place in a coherent universe?

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And I don't think you do it by, you know, having a cyberman story that references all the previous cyberman stories.

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I think you do it by having a group of people that the doctor knows and that have been affected by the doctor and who he loves and who love him.

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And I think the show never did this before, possibly, you know, the Pertoy era is a little bit like that. and it never does it again.

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One of the things that I will miss when Stephen Moffat takes over, is not having a brilliant writer as a showrunner because we get that, but not having a Doctor Who, that takes place in a world that, that cohere is.

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You remember, when I 1st started watching Doctor Who in the 70s, it always struck me that no one ever remembered the previous story, you know, and that was, that was, there was that 30 seconds at the start of time flight.

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Well, no, that's when it changes though, isn't it?

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It changes with season 18.

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And I think the reason, one of the reasons that we love season 18 is it takes place in a coherent world.

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Bitmeat creates a world for it to take place in, and that's wonderful and magical after so many years where, you know, everyone would be sort of have their memory wiped every 4 weeks.

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And Russell does this literally better than anyone else who's ever run the show. absolutely right.

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It's not magical though, Nathan.

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It's science.

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It's science.

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Of course it is.

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I think series 4's success can be measured by the fact that it's very difficult to see where a Russell series 5 would have gone.

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It's hard to see how it could have been bettered or the stakes could have been raised.

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It just is a perfect culmination of his era.

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Well, look at Moffatt, who, for the following year's season finale, has 5 people in a Dalek wandering around a museum.

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You know, the stakes are still high. still huge and interesting and and amazing, but he just can't do a giant kind of worldwide alien invasion anymore.

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Speaking of this series, like, okay, series four.

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We've talked about themes in the other series.

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Is there a theme underlying theme to this series or is it just what we've just talked about bringing all of this world together in one cohesive sort of to one cohesive point and celebrating that?

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Or is there something that you see in this series otherwise?

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Is it the value of friendship family?

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I think that Johnny got it right in our silence in the library episode, where he said that the thing that happens this season is kind of exposing the doctor to new challenges and things that he hasn't experienced before.

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So giving him a daughter, giving him a wife, you know, putting him on the back foot in midnight, you know, killing him off in turn left, like things are bigger and more interesting, the things that he faces.

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I'm not sure that's a theme, but I do think it's a thing that characterises this season.

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I don't think there is a noticeable themed series 4 except for celebration.

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It's a celebration of everything that the series has achieved and all that the characters have achieved. and so it's celebration kind of on and offscreen.

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But compared to something like series 3, which I think did have definite character themes.

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It may be that it's a little bit more on the shallow side, but not very much.

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Fair enough, James, anything to comment?

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I think that's the thing.

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It doesn't have themes.

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It has themes, I think.

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It has, you know, I don't think they're character themes though.

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I think they're, uh, They're more sort of plot threads or ideas or concepts that that kind of get woven through it.

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Like it's, it's, it's more, it's more, um, it's more plot, like plot ideas that like keep popping up.

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You know, the, the planets disappearing, the, like the Dr. Donna, the, you know, like, I don't think that has an overarching theme, no.

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I think it goes to show that the whole sort of season arc thing is actually much less important than they thought it was going to be. in a way that doesn't matter.

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It was a sort of artificial way of trying to create continuity within a season.

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But, you know, I think the only one that's really interesting or important is the series 3 arc.

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But series 4 still coheres around a world because the characters remember what's happened to them and meet people that they've met before.

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And, you know, we dismissed the Santaran Tupada.

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But is it the 1st proper time where the doctor's gone back with a previous companion and the current companion and had both of them in a story together, the sort of thing that we always kind of, you know, fantasised might be possible, but never really properly happened before, 2 doctors maybe.

131
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But that's something that you can only do when you've made a world for the doctor to live in.

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What about school reunion?

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Ah, yeah.

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I think it kind of underscores the success of the 2 doctors, actually, in that that's joyous, seeing JD and Perry hanging around together and Perry matched up with the 2nd doctrine, that, whereas the Santaran, 2 part of just to put the boot in once again. slightly misses that opportunity for the fun by separating Martha from the doctor and Donna.

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Yeah.

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All right, let's get our next category, sort of partners in crime, and our partners in crime are Martha Jones and Rose Tyler.

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Oh my god, he found you.

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But it's continuing on what we've just been talking about in that you've got both of these other companions with the current companions at some point in the season and seeing those relationships and even they have their moments together.

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Um, It's just interesting having them in like 2 or 3 episodes with um, Donna.

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Like, it would be like having Sarah Jane with Joe Grant in a story or it is Shaw coming in with Joe Grant for a story.

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And I look, I love I love that interplay between Rose and Martha when they finally meet and, you know, after the journey that Martha's gone through in series 3 where, you know, she's in love with the doctor, she's heartbroken, she's really damaged by that.

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And to show that how far that character has come. that her response is joy.

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Like when she sees Rose in in the series finale.

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She says, oh my gosh, he found you.

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And she actually, she's happy about that.

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You can't imagine that happening 12 months ago.

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It brings a tear, like it brings a tear to my eye and makes me glad that's not much.

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She goes, oh, you bitch, you know?

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You were the one that caused me...

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Which is actually what Rose does in stolen Earth. screening going, who the hell are you?

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I have a similar thing with Donna saying to the doctor, you know, Rose is coming back.

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That's good, isn't it?

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And then Donna's reaction. when she sees Rose coming down the street towards them.

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Like she gets, she notices her before the doctor does.

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And it's so beautiful.

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It's so wonderful.

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And so many people were irritated by the relationship between the doctor and Rose, particularly in the series too, and to have both Martha and Donna eventually affirm it, is wonderful, just great.

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And also, we haven't been kind to what was done with Martha this season.

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She hasn't been particularly well catered for compared to when she was regular.

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But it really shows the fact that Martha of all of the modern companions is the most fully formed person.

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She's not someone who needed to be fixed by the doctor.

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She was able to kind of walk away on her own terms and everything.

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So when she comes back, there's no feelings of melancholy or longing or jealousy.

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She just reacts as a normal person would react.

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She's like, you were really missing this person.

166
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They've returned unhappy for you.

167
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Great observation, Peter.

168
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All right, well, I think on that note, it's time for our 1st house party.

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The companions.

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So it's a very easy game. left or right, yes or no.

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So here we go.

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Donna or Martha?

173
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Oh, it's such a terrible, terrible choice.

174
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I want both of them.

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Can I make it for you?

176
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Absolutely God.

177
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Yeah, okay.

178
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But it is what you said.

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Martha is like a real person.

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And she is terribly thoughtful and likeable.

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I think Donna is funnier and, you know, terribly self-assured and things.

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But it would be wrenching to go into that house party room and leave Martha behind.

183
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That's okay.

184
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James, just choose one.

185
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Donna or Martha quickly.

186
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On top of your head.

187
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This is rapid fire.

188
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Yes, this is rapid fire.

189
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I choose Catherine Tate because I'd just like to have a chat with her.

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Okay, Martha or Rose?

191
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Martha.

192
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Martha.

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Martha.

194
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Rose or Sarah Jane?

195
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Sarah Jane.

196
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Sarah Jane.

197
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Sarah Jane.

198
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Captain Jack or River Song?

199
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River song.

200
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Yep, river song.

201
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Dodo.

202
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Harriet Jones or France Dean Jones.

203
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Oh, my friends.

204
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Yes.

205
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Harriet.

206
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Harriet.

207
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I love Anjo, but I love Harriet Jones, and I still haven't forgiven Russell for killing her off.

208
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Or having her drop through a trapdoor and onto a motorbike and escape the Daleks.

209
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That is cannon.

210
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It is canon.

211
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Wilf or Sylvia?

212
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:30.599
Oh, Wilf, because Sylvia's actually not a very nice person.

213
00:18:30.660 --> 00:18:35.400
Even though I adore her and could watch her all day.

214
00:18:35.460 --> 00:18:49.019
So if, if, if you're saying, should I watch an episode with Will for Sylvia in it, Sylvia, but if I have to spend a lot of time on a massive video chat with someone, definitely Will.

215
00:18:49.140 --> 00:18:50.460
Has to be Sabernan.

216
00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.720
I'm going to go for the Gestalt entity, Wilvia.

217
00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:57.779
Mickey or Jackie?

218
00:18:57.839 --> 00:18:58.980
Oh, come on.

219
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:03.599
Jackie.

220
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:04.619
Jackie.

221
00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:05.460
Jackie.

222
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:08.579
And finally for this round of the companion.

223
00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:11.220
So half of them are going in one room and half of them going in the other.

224
00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:14.039
The Dr. Donna or Dr. 2?

225
00:19:14.099 --> 00:19:16.019
Oh, the Dr. Donna.

226
00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:16.619
Absolutely.

227
00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:17.339
Yep.

228
00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:20.400
She types it a 100 words a minute, Todd.

229
00:19:20.460 --> 00:19:21.420
She's so good.

230
00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:22.740
Very good.

231
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:23.460
Excellent.

232
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:24.599
All right.

233
00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:26.339
Well, speaking of the Dr. Donna.

234
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:33.660
I'm going to go back to partners in crime in series 4 and let's talk about David Tennant, Catherine Tate, or the doctor and Donna.

235
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:38.579
I think Donna is very good for the 10th doctor.

236
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:45.480
I think she points out his foibles and undermines his grandstanding a little bit, and that's exactly what we needed.

237
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:51.299
Um, I also think that because Catherine is such a big personality.

238
00:19:51.359 --> 00:20:01.319
She puts David's performance in perspective, whereas David previously looked like he was very big compared to the more subdued performances of Freema and Billy.

239
00:20:01.380 --> 00:20:03.180
I totally agree with that.

240
00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:04.079
I think so too.

241
00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:16.680
I also think too, that, you know, I mean, the show is how, or has been up till that point, um, for a lot of its run, you know, an older man and a younger woman.

242
00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:25.559
And the younger woman is kind of a bit sort of naive and has, you know, the doctor gets to boss her around and she gets in trouble for wandering off and all of that sort of thing.

243
00:20:25.619 --> 00:20:35.099
And it's nice not having that. having someone who's actually slightly older than the doctor and certainly as self-assured as the doctor.

244
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:48.660
Look, I agree with your point that, Nathan, it's one. also one of the reasons why I say, you know, Evelyn Smythe and the 6 doctor work quite well, because it's more of an equal sort of pairing.

245
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:56.160
There's a sort of acerbic, um, slightly catty interaction that they have, but you know that they love each other.

246
00:20:56.700 --> 00:21:09.839
I think that's pretty interesting because it's made explicit on screen in that very underrated episode, The Fires of Pompeii, where Donna says, I don't know about these kids you've been hanging around with, but I'm not one of them.

247
00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:11.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

248
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:12.660
It's really good.

249
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:13.799
And I agree.

250
00:21:13.859 --> 00:21:23.339
It is a lot like Evelyn Smythe, because remember the 6 doctor can be a bit of a bully, and, you know, like he makes Perry carry his fishing gear all over the place and stuff.

251
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:24.900
You know.

252
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:26.339
So great.

253
00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:28.319
But Evelyn just wouldn't tolerate that.

254
00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:31.019
And it's the same with the tenth doctor.

255
00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:34.140
He's big and kind of a little bit self-involved.

256
00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:41.940
And so having someone come along and call him a prawn or a plum or a, you know, a dumbo all the time is actually really wonderful.

257
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:43.859
She's the medicine he needed.

258
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:57.900
Yeah, and I agree with everything that you're saying and I've said it before having a comic in that role just adds to how the whole thing is performed and she just, she's just wonderful.

259
00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:01.019
She is my favourite of these 3 companions.

260
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:11.519
And, and, and I think David, like, we go on about his ticks and certain things, but I really do think, I really enjoy him in the moment.

261
00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:18.480
Most of 95% of the time, or 99% of the time, he just, he's very effortless, I kind of think.

262
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:23.160
There's never any idea with David that he's not delivering a good performance.

263
00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:25.619
He's always working 110% on screen.

264
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:31.799
It's just a question of whether what he's doing particularly appeals to you or not, but I agree with Todd.

265
00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:35.579
I think he delivers 99.5% of the time.

266
00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:40.140
And then there's another couple of things, but it's like with any doctor, it's relative, isn't it?

267
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:45.119
You don't dislike any of them, and if you're asked to order them, it's very difficult because they're all brilliant.

268
00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:51.599
I think, too, that even though Tenet isn't my favourite new series, doctor.

269
00:22:51.660 --> 00:23:03.180
I am happy that he's the one that everyone remembers because I do think it's a conception of the doctor, a look, a style of interacting, all of that sort of stuff, which is magical, just incredible.

270
00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:08.940
And, you know, like I think I like Moffatt's doctors better, but I don't know.

271
00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:16.619
I think he spends so much time kind of working out his own anxiety is about masculinity and stuff, you know, through those doctors.

272
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:23.880
It's a little bit nicer to have someone a little bit more sort of self-confident.

273
00:23:24.299 --> 00:23:27.240
He sort of creates an archetype, doesn't he?

274
00:23:27.299 --> 00:23:38.759
And it's interesting, I think, that regardless of how good the others are, Matt Smith, Matt Smith's doctor adheres to that archetype, and I would say is the most broadly successful next to David's.

275
00:23:38.819 --> 00:23:40.259
Yeah, yeah.

276
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:52.500
So, obviously, besides Dr. and Donna, we have another 2 partners in crime that are part of this season.

277
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:54.599
Nat is Wilfred Mott and Sylvia Noble.

278
00:23:55.380 --> 00:23:59.099
I think that they are amazing.

279
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:18.480
And, um, so I do point it out quite a lot that last season we just didn't quite get enough of Martha's family to really warm to them in quite the same way, uh, that we did with Rose and and Jackie and Mickey uh, and maybe Peace a bit.

280
00:24:18.539 --> 00:24:28.559
But here, those 2, like they're both older, sort of veteran actors, they're both incredibly strong, and the relationship between them is great.

281
00:24:28.619 --> 00:24:40.980
Like the way that Sylvia bosses him around and the way that he sort of resents it, but accepts it, you know, she sends him out out the back to do some stargazing to get him out of the house, she won't let him have a webcam.

282
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:44.700
You know, she absolutely...

283
00:24:44.700 --> 00:24:46.500
She absolutely bosses him around.

284
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:50.220
But then the times where she goes to him for comfort.

285
00:24:50.279 --> 00:25:12.000
There's just maybe 2 scenes in the series where he's reassuring her and he calls her my little girl and all of that is so moving when she's so prickly and so, so kind of unhappy and unlikeable and just having her want to be comforted by Will, humanises her enormously.

286
00:25:12.059 --> 00:25:15.000
I think Wolf is an incredible score.

287
00:25:15.059 --> 00:25:22.079
Like, it's tragic circumstances that lead to his casting, but he's amazingly great.

288
00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:26.099
Well, it's the same kind of alchemy where they got Catherine involved.

289
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:30.599
They brought in Catherine for a one-off and then were lucky enough to get her in a regular role.

290
00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:34.740
They brought in Bernard Crippen's for a one off, and then the situation dictated.

291
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:37.619
They went back to him and they lock enough to get him in for a regular role.

292
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:38.640
So it was just alchemy.

293
00:25:38.700 --> 00:25:45.180
But it's also lucky enough that then their chemistry between both of them is just absolutely incredible.

294
00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:53.940
And the warmth of his character and the joy in his character is, is one of the things that I ideally love about this season.

295
00:25:54.059 --> 00:26:01.200
And I think with Sylvia, it is actually interesting going back to say, actually, what a cow she actually is a lot of the time.

296
00:26:01.259 --> 00:26:15.599
I didn't realise how actually unlikeable she, she actually is as a person, but you see these moments of warmth, like with her, uh, both with, um, Wolf and with her and with Donna.

297
00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:43.680
And, and perhaps in that, in the last scenes of the season with the doctor, when she says like she's my daughter, and you should be leaving now, there's just that you just know that she's a changed person, and she's going to do better, and, and that combined with the turnlift episode where you actually see her at the depths of despair, and what she can deliver, as an actress, which is just extraordinary.

298
00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:47.400
I wish there was another episode with her.

299
00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:49.559
You know, that's what I wish.

300
00:26:49.619 --> 00:26:52.799
And she's a flawed person, which is interesting.

301
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:55.019
She's got a public face and a private face.

302
00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:59.880
And so you see it when she's out on the town with her girls in partners in crime.

303
00:26:59.940 --> 00:27:04.859
She's all bubbly and upbeat and sort of the life of the party and clearly happy to be with them.

304
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:12.900
Yet when she's with her family, sort of that slips and she just sort of slides into a pattern of kind of low-key abusing them.

305
00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:15.960
But, you know, there are a lot of people like that.

306
00:27:16.019 --> 00:27:17.039
She's a fairly rounded person.

307
00:27:17.579 --> 00:27:21.359
Look, I tend to agree with you on that.

308
00:27:21.420 --> 00:27:27.420
I think the beauty of the, that, triptych, Is that the right word?

309
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:36.720
Um, the beauty of that triptych of uh, of characters is probably one of the reasons why uh, why big finish keeps coming back to them.

310
00:27:36.779 --> 00:27:44.160
They, you know, they've had a number of box sets they've done with that cars.

311
00:27:44.220 --> 00:27:45.839
Not with Bernard as well.

312
00:27:45.900 --> 00:27:59.579
Bernard came in the most recent one, but you can see that they love series 4 so much and they love the fact that they can get those actors to appear in their in their audiobooks.

313
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:01.980
They keep going back to that well.

314
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:09.660
They've recently done a new box set, which is just Donna and her family.

315
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:12.000
Um, basically without the 10th doctor.

316
00:28:12.059 --> 00:28:14.160
Oh, wow, it's turn left.

317
00:28:14.220 --> 00:28:15.900
He's not dead.

318
00:28:15.900 --> 00:28:19.980
And bringing in Nicky Audley from the Catherine Tate show.

319
00:28:20.759 --> 00:28:24.119
And they keep working with Jackie King.

320
00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:25.740
They keep bringing her back for everything.

321
00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:29.460
They, like, she is one of their regular cast members.

322
00:28:29.460 --> 00:28:40.680
Like, in bit parts in, you know, I think they did a, they did an adaptation of the book of the Wizard of Oz, and she played the Wicked Witch or them.

323
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:42.779
Wonderful.

324
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:50.039
Look, I, yeah, no, they are some of the best cast members of the, of the revived series.

325
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:52.440
They're just brilliant.

326
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:57.539
Well, speaking of happy couples, it's now time for house party to happy couples.

327
00:28:58.859 --> 00:29:01.140
I'm going to love some of these.

328
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:02.039
All right.

329
00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:05.400
Colonel Mace or Captain Price.

330
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:08.579
I have no idea who the 2nd one is.

331
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:10.140
The one that kisses him.

332
00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:13.799
Oh, God, I still have no idea who it is.

333
00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:21.900
Wonderful lovers from the 2nd part of the Santara and there would have been more sexual chemistry if they'd had 2 Muppets kissing each other.

334
00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:23.759
And believe me, I've seen that.

335
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:28.319
She's to think that he's gay and that she's she's unrequitedly in love with him.

336
00:29:28.380 --> 00:29:30.359
No, he's gay and she's an alien.

337
00:29:30.420 --> 00:29:31.319
Let pay attention.

338
00:29:31.559 --> 00:29:33.599
We've answered the question.

339
00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:34.380
Let's move on.

340
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:39.299
Val or Biff Kane?

341
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:42.420
Oh, they're both so horrible.

342
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:45.900
But I have to say that I really like Val.

343
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:48.420
She is so, so horrible.

344
00:29:48.720 --> 00:30:02.099
And there's that moment where she appeals to Jethro, you know, come and be a horrible daily mail reader like us, you know, surely you're going to be on our side.

345
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:13.440
That family is unbelievably, unbelievably gross and awful, and even that the dad joke about the pool being, what is it?

346
00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:15.059
Is it's a concept or something?

347
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:16.920
Like it's so poor.

348
00:30:16.980 --> 00:30:20.700
Like, you know, in his goatee, like, I just hate the whole thing.

349
00:30:21.180 --> 00:30:27.420
I would have to go for Val as well because she's played by someone who lit up EastEnders for a decade.

350
00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:28.140
Oh, wow.

351
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:29.160
James?

352
00:30:29.220 --> 00:30:30.599
Neither of them.

353
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:32.519
Fair enough.

354
00:30:32.579 --> 00:30:34.740
I'm going to go with Dow because at 1st she'll love you.

355
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:38.700
Then she'll hate you, then she'll deny hating you and try and convince you.

356
00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:40.140
She'll try and throw you out of an airlock.

357
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:45.480
That bit at the end, isn't it, where she kind of denies having done anything.

358
00:30:45.539 --> 00:30:47.099
She denies any wrongdoing.

359
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:51.059
She can't bring herself to kind of even mentally accept what they've done.

360
00:30:51.180 --> 00:30:52.740
She's she's horrible.

361
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:54.299
Gosh, that story is good.

362
00:30:54.420 --> 00:31:01.619
And she is also the character which that plot hinges on because she is the 1st one who the doctor's doing his whole.

363
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:07.619
You've all got to listen to me and I'm in charge, and I'm going to save you, and she's the one who turns on him 1st and it's a real shock.

364
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:10.380
Hmm, okay.

365
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:11.819
All right.

366
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:14.640
Corn on the cob.

367
00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:16.380
General Cobb.

368
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.519
Or Luke Ratican.

369
00:31:20.579 --> 00:31:21.960
Oh, Luke.

370
00:31:22.019 --> 00:31:23.640
Ryan Sampson.

371
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:26.160
Because I love his Twitter.

372
00:31:26.220 --> 00:31:28.140
Oh, is he on Twitter?

373
00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:29.880
Yes, yeah, yeah.

374
00:31:29.940 --> 00:31:44.759
No, um, somebody recently, maybe in the last year, um, tried to, some homophobic bastard tried to get him to engage in conversation about something, and he posted a picture of him and his boyfriend.

375
00:31:44.819 --> 00:31:49.079
He's like, yeah, yeah, you're not going to you're not going to get my support in that, mate.

376
00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:51.720
It was just it was just so sweet.

377
00:31:51.839 --> 00:32:05.940
And again, you know, I can't divorce that character from that actor because, like, the character is terrible, but the actor is one of the best comic actors in Britain at the moment.

378
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:12.599
Do you know, Peter was very full throated in his defence of Luke?

379
00:32:12.660 --> 00:32:13.799
What are you saying, Nathan?

380
00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:18.839
And I think that you won me over, Peter, actually.

381
00:32:18.900 --> 00:32:19.980
I think that you're right.

382
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:22.440
I mean, he is a sort of Sarah Jane character.

383
00:32:22.500 --> 00:32:31.200
You know, we spent a lot of time saying, why is he even in this episode, but you kind of said that he was doing a good job of the material that he was given.

384
00:32:31.259 --> 00:32:37.440
Yeah, I'd have to go with Luke every time because I think Ryan is handed a poison chalice and actually makes something of it.

385
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:39.299
Very true.

386
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:40.859
I do agree with that Yes.

387
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:42.839
All right, here's my next happy couple.

388
00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:43.799
Oh yes, here we go.

389
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:45.480
Horrible.

390
00:32:48.599 --> 00:32:50.819
Oh, I can't even say his name.

391
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:51.599
What's his name?

392
00:32:51.660 --> 00:32:53.160
Lucius Paxtris Dexter.

393
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:53.700
There you go.

394
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:54.539
Nope, no.

395
00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:57.000
No, Nathan, say it, please.

396
00:32:57.059 --> 00:33:00.539
So, so Lucius Petrist extras.

397
00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:01.500
Or who?

398
00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:02.519
Parabile.

399
00:33:03.539 --> 00:33:06.240
Do you want bad teeth or bad skin?

400
00:33:06.299 --> 00:33:06.960
your choice.

401
00:33:08.339 --> 00:33:18.059
He has a like incorrect Latin name, and I spent a lot of time being very cross about all the incorrect Latin names in Fires of Pompeii.

402
00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:25.559
He is fabulously revolting, I think, and is in everything that he's in.

403
00:33:25.619 --> 00:33:27.420
I think I saw a picture of him.

404
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:28.740
He's doing something at the moment.

405
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:30.240
I've seen a recent picture of him.

406
00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:42.299
I can't remember what he's currently doing, but he is, he's kind of gross, sort of physically, and, you know, there's a lot of spittle, sort of around his mouth and stuff when he delivers his lines.

407
00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:44.400
So he's perfect, I think.

408
00:33:44.460 --> 00:33:49.559
So he's coming into your house party. on everything.

409
00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:52.980
Well, you know, like I just don't want to priestess at my party, frankly.

410
00:33:53.099 --> 00:34:07.619
He was also in the 2005 BBC adaptation of Bleak House, and he had a catchphrase where he was like sitting in his chair, and everything he said, he'd then go shake me up, Judy, and his poor old minion would have to like shake him in his chair to sort of loosen his bones.

411
00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:13.559
Well, we mentioned that he was the devil in the final series of being human.

412
00:34:13.619 --> 00:34:18.360
And he was super, super gross and horrible in that.

413
00:34:18.420 --> 00:34:21.059
He does seem to be typecast, doesn't he?

414
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:22.800
He does indeed.

415
00:34:22.860 --> 00:34:25.320
Given all that, I'd take Mrs. Pyrovile.

416
00:34:26.099 --> 00:34:27.599
All right.

417
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:31.380
I think I choose handmade number three, a.k.a.

418
00:34:31.380 --> 00:34:34.500
Karen Gillen. doing her posh accent.

419
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:39.420
Agatha Christie or Lobus Caicillius.

420
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:41.880
Oh, it has to be Agatha Christie.

421
00:34:41.940 --> 00:34:44.400
I mean, I really like, you know, Cabaldi.

422
00:34:44.460 --> 00:34:49.320
There'll be plenty of time for Capaldi house parties, I imagine, in future seasons.

423
00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:53.340
But I have always loved Fenella Woolgar.

424
00:34:53.400 --> 00:35:01.199
There's a kind of terrible adaptation by Stephen Fry, of one of my favourite novels in the whole world, vile bodies by Evelyn Waugh.

425
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:03.000
And she is in that.

426
00:35:03.059 --> 00:35:07.079
It's called Bright Young Things, the Fry Film Version.

427
00:35:07.139 --> 00:35:16.679
And it's much, much more sentimental than the war novel, which is why I hate it, because the war novel is so horrible. and so unsentimental.

428
00:35:16.739 --> 00:35:22.619
And she plays Agatha Runcible, and she is so incredibly funny in it.

429
00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:23.820
So I've loved her forever.

430
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:29.880
And I think she's fantastic in Unicorn and the Wasp, both with Donna and with the doctor.

431
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:30.780
She's really great.

432
00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:32.639
And also Agatha Roncible.

433
00:35:32.699 --> 00:35:36.659
I mean, haven't we missed out on that unicorn in the wasp and deadly assassin crossover.

434
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:37.679
We didn't know we needed.

435
00:35:37.739 --> 00:35:39.239
That's making a bitch.

436
00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:40.380
The unicorn?

437
00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:41.579
Or the wasp.

438
00:35:42.179 --> 00:35:43.860
The wasp.

439
00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:45.659
Oh, the unicorn.

440
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:46.860
Oh, do you think?

441
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:51.539
So the unicorn is, of course, Star Wars's Felicity Jones.

442
00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:54.000
Oh, no, lovey can't say I do.

443
00:35:55.440 --> 00:36:00.300
And I love that hilarious cockney accent she suddenly starts to put on.

444
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:02.880
That's her normal accent because she's a villain.

445
00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:04.019
Are you doing the accent?

446
00:36:05.940 --> 00:36:16.800
But, um, yeah, like the wasp, I guess, is sort of reasonably good looking and stuff, but a bit wet and, you know, likely to the end.

447
00:36:16.860 --> 00:36:20.099
Well, yes. and likely to sort of beat you to death.

448
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:20.699
Yeah, yeah.

449
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:21.900
Or hit you with a pipe.

450
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:26.159
I think I'd have to go for the wasp over the unicorn because how do you want someone to respond?

451
00:36:26.219 --> 00:36:28.920
Do you want to say something and have someone go, how funny?

452
00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:32.219
What do you want to have them go?

453
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:35.340
Every time.

454
00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:38.340
Peter, you're great with these these effects.

455
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:41.039
Okay, so we've got, I could just say...

456
00:36:41.159 --> 00:36:42.239
And who's the other one that you do?

457
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:44.699
That's the fish.

458
00:36:45.179 --> 00:36:49.260
Hello, I'm a hat.

459
00:36:49.260 --> 00:36:50.340
Here's my final happy couple.

460
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:52.440
Health or safety?

461
00:36:53.699 --> 00:36:56.280
I'll be healthy, be safety.

462
00:37:05.579 --> 00:37:06.599
All right.

463
00:37:06.659 --> 00:37:11.400
This has sort of opened up to, we've been talking about, I think, a lot of guest stars, this season.

464
00:37:11.460 --> 00:37:17.099
Who are your most memorable or favourite performers in this series as guest stars?

465
00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:24.719
I mean, I obviously am going to say that Sky Sylvestri and her performance, what's the actress's name?

466
00:37:24.780 --> 00:37:26.340
Leslie Sharp.

467
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:34.559
Leslie Sharp's performance at Sky Sylvester, I think, is one of the standouts for me this season.

468
00:37:34.860 --> 00:37:36.239
Yeah.

469
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:38.699
I adore that.

470
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:42.420
I don't think I would have gone to her first, but I think you're right.

471
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:45.000
But there's so many to choose from. isn't there?

472
00:37:45.420 --> 00:37:47.159
River song.

473
00:37:47.219 --> 00:37:48.659
I mean, that's a guest performance.

474
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:51.599
And you have to say that Alex Kingston is great in that performance.

475
00:37:51.659 --> 00:37:53.880
Let's help forget Miss Foster.

476
00:37:53.940 --> 00:37:55.380
She was on my list as well.

477
00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:01.139
There's a lot of really strong female guest stars in this in this season.

478
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:06.300
Yeah, I want to say Marisa Magumbo who is incredible in turn left.

479
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:08.699
I think she's wonderful and I'm so glad they bring her back.

480
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:09.960
She's great.

481
00:38:10.019 --> 00:38:14.880
And in Unicorn and the Wasp, 2 female leads for Nella Woolgar and our favourite.

482
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:16.860
Felicity Jones.

483
00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:19.260
Oh, Felicity Kendall.

484
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:20.460
Correct.

485
00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:22.500
Felicity Kendall, the wrong Felicity.

486
00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:22.860
Yeah.

487
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:26.579
Christopher Benjamin is wonderful in that too, and he's still alive.

488
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:27.480
It's so gorgeous.

489
00:38:27.539 --> 00:38:29.219
General Cobb.

490
00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:31.260
Well naturally.

491
00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:33.840
What about Julian Beach's Davros?

492
00:38:33.900 --> 00:38:37.380
Is that one that you'd say there's a standout?

493
00:38:37.500 --> 00:38:42.059
Um, I think he is the best Davros.

494
00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:43.500
Fight me.

495
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:46.380
I honestly think he does a better job than Michael Wisher.

496
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:55.260
And I think that he does that partly because he's able to build on Michael Wisher and partly because he just has a vastly, vastly better mask that enables him to do more acting.

497
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:57.059
And I think he nails it.

498
00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:59.280
I think he absolutely nails that performance.

499
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:07.019
So, I mean, he sort of is a bit sort of hanging around in a basement kind of saying things to people.

500
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:10.199
He doesn't get to do much sort of plot stuff.

501
00:39:10.260 --> 00:39:12.000
I love how they lampshade that though.

502
00:39:12.059 --> 00:39:13.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

503
00:39:13.260 --> 00:39:21.840
But I mean, even when he comes back in Capaldi, I mean, the only reason he comes back is that Moffatt wants to sit him and Capaldi in a room and have them talk.

504
00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:29.400
So he doesn't get quite as much to do as Michael wishes Davros, but he is every bit as good, I think.

505
00:39:29.460 --> 00:39:30.179
Yeah.

506
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:35.219
Is there anybody else that you would think stands out at all?

507
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:39.000
I think Colin Morgan shows a lot of early promise in midnight.

508
00:39:39.059 --> 00:39:43.019
It's no coincidence that he went basically straight from that episode into Merlin.

509
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:46.920
And I think maybe Capaldi, you know, I think...

510
00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:48.960
Showing early promise, Peter Capaldi.

511
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:50.579
Go to years in his career.

512
00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:53.579
It's funny, isn't it?

513
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:58.980
Because he must have thought, maybe we made this point at the time, but he must have thought, oh, I'm finally in Doctor Who.

514
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:08.400
I'm sort of done without sort of realising that he was the commander Maxwell all along and that he was going to get to have his own go at the role.

515
00:40:08.460 --> 00:40:12.179
And he is sort of funny and marvellous, I think.

516
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:16.800
It's a bit of a, you know, it's it's not John Frobisher in Children of Earth.

517
00:40:16.860 --> 00:40:18.179
Like, it's not a massive part.

518
00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:20.400
There's not a lot of depth to it.

519
00:40:20.460 --> 00:40:28.019
But, you know, that scene at the very end, where he is just visibly heartbroken about what's happened to his hometown.

520
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:29.579
It's that's beautiful.

521
00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:32.039
That's an extraordinary performance, I think.

522
00:40:32.099 --> 00:40:33.960
And he gets the pitch of that episode.

523
00:40:34.019 --> 00:40:35.039
Exactly right, doesn't he?

524
00:40:35.099 --> 00:40:42.480
I think it's interesting that when I start thinking about this, I always think of all the female guest stars in this season, probably 1st before the male.

525
00:40:42.539 --> 00:40:47.699
Um, And that's not to say that the guys aren't doing a great job.

526
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:49.260
Patrick Trout and Son.

527
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:50.460
I think also does a wonderful job.

528
00:40:50.519 --> 00:40:51.119
Yeah.

529
00:40:52.619 --> 00:40:54.539
Christopher Ryan?

530
00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:55.260
Oh, yes.

531
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:56.099
Oh, yeah.

532
00:40:56.159 --> 00:40:59.039
I think it is in all as general style.

533
00:40:59.099 --> 00:41:01.739
He really does do a great job in that.

534
00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:12.420
I mean, I think... getting hit by that ball in the back of the probic bed is one of my favourite, funniest scenes of the entire season.

535
00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:17.400
But it's time for another house party and we're going for the female edition.

536
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:18.179
So get ready.

537
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:18.719
Here we go.

538
00:41:19.500 --> 00:41:22.559
Stacy Campbell or Suzette Chambers?

539
00:41:22.619 --> 00:41:25.199
Oh, I love Suzette.

540
00:41:25.260 --> 00:41:31.559
I have to say, um, Stacy is incredible, and we do talk about that in our partners in crime episode.

541
00:41:31.619 --> 00:41:36.599
She's so good and it's so terrific that she's lost weight and so she's going to dump her boyfriend.

542
00:41:36.659 --> 00:41:38.039
I think that's so awesome.

543
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:40.019
She can do better.

544
00:41:40.139 --> 00:41:46.019
She's a, she is a really, really, really rustly character and a really well drawn one.

545
00:41:46.139 --> 00:41:51.900
But I think Suzette is this season's Neres or Annelise, I think.

546
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:53.579
One and done.

547
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:57.360
But she does keep getting mentioned.

548
00:41:57.420 --> 00:41:59.099
She does get mentioned from time to time.

549
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:01.019
Jenny or Penny?

550
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:02.219
Jenny.

551
00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:04.500
Can I, can I not have a headache?

552
00:42:06.539 --> 00:42:09.900
Solana Mercurio or Trinity Wells?

553
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:11.340
Trinity Wells.

554
00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:12.659
Every time.

555
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:14.820
Solana is so good though.

556
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:16.619
She's so good in that episode.

557
00:42:16.679 --> 00:42:18.539
It's such a good part.

558
00:42:18.539 --> 00:42:21.300
And she just does it so perfectly.

559
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:30.900
I think you pointed this out, Todd, in the episode where you kind of think this is the moment where she turns and joins the doctor's side and she doesn't.

560
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:32.039
She doesn't do it.

561
00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:42.960
And she becomes, you know, she was always sort of dodgy and horribly corporate and all of that sort of thing, but she just genuinely becomes horrifically evil after that.

562
00:42:43.019 --> 00:42:47.219
And her death is so satisfying and she absolutely deserves it.

563
00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:52.559
It's a really, really, you know, well-performed and well-written part, I think.

564
00:42:52.739 --> 00:42:55.739
Miss Foster or Miss Evangelista?

565
00:42:56.519 --> 00:42:58.800
Oh, Miss Foster every time.

566
00:42:58.860 --> 00:42:59.280
Yes.

567
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:15.239
You know, we spent a lot of time in our silence in the library episode talking about Miss Evangelista, and I do think that she is pretty great, and that scene with her dying is unbelievable.

568
00:43:15.300 --> 00:43:17.820
There's just something about a face I don't like.

569
00:43:18.599 --> 00:43:20.159
Which one?

570
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:26.699
Okay, Sky Sylvestri or the hostess?

571
00:43:27.179 --> 00:43:28.980
The hostess.

572
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:31.739
Because she saves the day.

573
00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:56.460
They're both so good That is a great performance, which, I mean, I wanted to bring that up because you look at Sky, you look at Val, but that performance and you never find out her name is, it's so affecting, you know, and just the motions that she goes through at the beginning, like she's just going through the motions, like, oh, yes, like you would if you were on a plane and they just automatically do their automatic talk to the passengers.

574
00:43:56.519 --> 00:44:01.619
It's sort of like, does she, is she just sort of like hollow and it's dead inside?

575
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:02.280
you know?

576
00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:06.179
Um, But then she's really scared, isn't she?

577
00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:07.320
And then really brave.

578
00:44:07.380 --> 00:44:08.579
Like, she's amazing.

579
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:12.599
It is, it's a bit of a thankless role, maybe, or something.

580
00:44:12.659 --> 00:44:16.199
It's a role that could have been thrown away and she really, really inhabits it.

581
00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:16.860
She's wonderful.

582
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:25.380
I mean, the Sky Sylvestry performance is so virtuoso and such an amazing, just technically amazing performance.

583
00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:28.920
But yeah, the hostess is really something.

584
00:44:28.980 --> 00:44:33.840
And a moment of appreciation for midnight there because it's just people trapped in a room.

585
00:44:33.900 --> 00:44:39.480
It lives and dies by the quality of those characters and Russell just creates this incredible ensemble.

586
00:44:39.539 --> 00:44:40.920
Yeah.

587
00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:43.199
Yeah, it's a play, isn't it?

588
00:44:43.260 --> 00:44:47.159
You know, it's it's absolutely a play or a short story or something.

589
00:44:47.219 --> 00:44:48.900
It's it's so good.

590
00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:50.159
It's so good.

591
00:44:50.940 --> 00:44:53.460
Okay, the Fortune Teller?

592
00:44:53.820 --> 00:44:56.280
Well, the Spanish made.

593
00:44:57.539 --> 00:44:59.940
They're both brilliant.

594
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:03.360
James?

595
00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:10.559
The fortune teller and the Spanish maid sounds like some sort of Agatha Christie novel, doesn't it?

596
00:45:10.619 --> 00:45:16.800
One of them points at you and the other one does a wonderful accent saying, oh, you've got red hair or something.

597
00:45:18.420 --> 00:45:21.000
Chan, that fortune teller though.

598
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:24.599
I love the Spanish mate.

599
00:45:24.659 --> 00:45:33.059
I'm sure I read this somewhere, but someone makes the point that she just thinks that if she says the thing repeatedly in Spanish to people that they'll eventually understand her.

600
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:37.260
But it's such a multi-layered performance as well because there's not only the pointing.

601
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:38.400
There's also the scowling.

602
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:43.320
She can point and scowl at the same time.

603
00:45:43.739 --> 00:45:45.480
Double threat.

604
00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:51.719
And finally, the shadow architect or the great architect.

605
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:54.840
Oh, I don't like that shadow architect.

606
00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:56.760
Or the great architect, actually.

607
00:45:56.820 --> 00:45:57.900
He's kind of terrible too.

608
00:46:08.099 --> 00:46:09.119
Okay, moving on.

609
00:46:10.019 --> 00:46:13.139
The stories of this season.

610
00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:16.679
I mean I always talk about the best and the worst.

611
00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:20.099
Where does the season fit for you?

612
00:46:20.219 --> 00:46:29.639
I find, maybe I'll start with talking about this, is that my top 3 are midnight turn left. and the stolen earth.

613
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:32.760
And they sit right at the top of this season.

614
00:46:32.820 --> 00:46:34.980
But then I've got these other tiers.

615
00:46:35.099 --> 00:46:40.920
I've got the 3 Martha episodes, which I think are the weakest, but that's only by default really.

616
00:46:40.980 --> 00:46:42.840
I mean, they're not totally awful.

617
00:46:42.900 --> 00:46:58.619
Um, you've got you're beginning three, the past, present, and future, which I think are the strongest three, of the 4 series, um, as a group, which I said weeks ago that I give all 9 out of 10 to.

618
00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:07.199
And then I've got this other level that are almost at that same level, which is the unicorn and the wasp, the library episodes.

619
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:13.500
And the final episode of the season, which fits somewhere, but, you know, around that as well.

620
00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:15.059
There's just so many strong episodes.

621
00:47:15.659 --> 00:47:25.500
I've said lots of times that I think the last 7 episodes of this season are the best run of episodes that Doctor Who has ever had.

622
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:31.619
And I think Unicorn and the Wasp makes it in there because it's just such good comedy and just so well made.

623
00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:36.179
And they're all different from one another, which is what you want from Doctor Who.

624
00:47:36.300 --> 00:47:38.460
And they're all incredibly strong.

625
00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:48.000
And like, I think silence in the library and Forest of the Dead are Moffatt's best contribution to the RTD era.

626
00:47:48.059 --> 00:47:50.940
I like them better.

627
00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:52.679
Oh maybe that's ridiculous.

628
00:47:52.739 --> 00:47:55.860
I think I like them as much as I like blink.

629
00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:57.659
They're very different.

630
00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:03.900
They're trying to do things that are very different, but I think they're so strong and so interesting.

631
00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:11.820
And so for me, I would put all of those seven, you know, at a very top level.

632
00:48:11.880 --> 00:48:21.719
I think the 1st 3 are great, and I agree with you, Todd, I think that the Martha ones are weakest, and I think I like the doctor's daughter a bit less than you do.

633
00:48:21.780 --> 00:48:23.579
I would say that's the weakest of the season.

634
00:48:24.179 --> 00:48:26.219
Before I get to the others.

635
00:48:26.280 --> 00:48:32.099
It's interesting you picked up on the Stephen Moffatt, because one of my other questions was Stephen Moffatt, Russell T. Davies.

636
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:39.840
And for me, this is the 1st season where I actually do not consider the Stephen Moffat episodes to be vying for any of the top 3 or number one positions.

637
00:48:39.900 --> 00:48:43.500
In fact, they are so they are so far down the list.

638
00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:51.300
In fact, they fall after the 3 Martha episodes, they are the next 2 that I would put in the season.

639
00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:53.760
Everything else for me is above.

640
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:55.079
It's a bubble shot games.

641
00:48:57.300 --> 00:49:04.139
I guess at the time when I watched them, it was like the moment that Cal appeared.

642
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:08.039
It was like, oh, this is all like a fake reality sort of world.

643
00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:15.900
And I guess I was looking for all the Moffat ticks in an episode for the 1st time and like I was counting people and waiting for the jump scares.

644
00:49:16.019 --> 00:49:36.059
So, although I thought they were good, I just, I don't know, there's just episodes that I enjoy so much more in this season, and not to say that they're bad, they are really solid episodes, and in other seasons, they would be up there, but it's the 1st series where the Russell scripts are the ones that I prefer, which is, which I find interesting, you know?

645
00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:38.099
Told on, totally agree with you on that.

646
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:44.519
I think, even though, objectively, I think they are very good episodes, I don't warm to them at all.

647
00:49:44.579 --> 00:49:48.360
And I think it may be the 1st time that you see the parts moving.

648
00:49:48.420 --> 00:49:52.320
You see the way that Stephen is assembled this script to be clever.

649
00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:56.579
And for that reason, I think it appeals to a lot of people, but I just don't quite get it.

650
00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:08.280
I mean, I like the Russell scripts more, like I think Midnight and Turn left are better than Silence in the Library and Forest of the Dead, but I love I love those.

651
00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:15.059
See, I've always liked Russell's writing more than Stevens, even though, you know, technically Steven's stories are brilliant.

652
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:16.199
Blink is amazing.

653
00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:22.139
His his season one, 2 parter is fantastic.

654
00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:26.699
But I've always preferred the way that Russell approaches storytelling.

655
00:50:26.820 --> 00:50:28.860
I think it's interesting.

656
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:33.539
I mean, yeah, no, like, I think those 2 episodes in series 4 are very strong.

657
00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:39.000
But I think they are a dry run for his version of Doctor Who.

658
00:50:39.300 --> 00:50:57.900
Like, you can see all of the story tricks, you know, that's him, you know, he's developed this over the last 4 years of working on the show, and you can see that this is this is what he's going to do over and over and over again when he's running the show.

659
00:50:57.960 --> 00:50:58.860
Yeah.

660
00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:01.019
I think there's sort of diminishing returns.

661
00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:10.920
You know, like I'd like the Moffatt era less than I like RTDs era, but I like them off era a lot, but I do think it sort of flops. more frequently than Russell's does.

662
00:51:10.980 --> 00:51:14.340
But I think that that's because he's more ambitious than Russell is.

663
00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:20.699
Russell makes the same series, you know, 4 times and it's a great series and I adore it.

664
00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:28.139
But, um, and I also think Russell has a clear idea of what the show is than Moffatt does.

665
00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:37.920
And so that's why I think he's more successful, but I do think that, and again, we say this in the silence in the library episode, that Moffat loves Russell's Doctor Who.

666
00:51:37.980 --> 00:51:39.539
That's very, very clear.

667
00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:45.599
So he does a really good job of writing Russell Lera stories.

668
00:51:45.659 --> 00:51:56.219
And I think that silence in the library and Forrest of the Dead is where he does his best job of writing an RTD era story.

669
00:51:56.340 --> 00:52:01.380
It's less of an event and less of a standout than blink.

670
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:05.280
But I just think it's really good and really properly solid.

671
00:52:05.340 --> 00:52:06.840
Hard to argue with any of that.

672
00:52:06.900 --> 00:52:08.280
Yeah, totally.

673
00:52:08.340 --> 00:52:38.699
I just think it's an interesting discussion to have, considering where his stories are placed in, you know, with fans over the years in these 1st 4 series and how we all like different aspects of Russell's writing at different times, but it's the 1st time where, for me, Russell has outdone, Stephen, I'm going toe to toe, which is, I think, which I, which right now when I'm looking at your, I'm actually smiling about, because, you know, this is his show and, and, and that's great.

674
00:52:39.300 --> 00:52:41.579
All right, I'm going to agree with you.

675
00:52:41.639 --> 00:52:42.900
I know this will make you happy.

676
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:48.239
Midnight, turn left, stolen earth, obviously, the height of the season, I think.

677
00:52:48.300 --> 00:52:56.400
But I would also say that the 2 comedy episodes, Partners in Crime, and the Unicorn and the Wasp, just hit it out of the park.

678
00:52:56.460 --> 00:52:58.500
They're so funny and light.

679
00:52:58.619 --> 00:53:14.940
But then at the other end of the scale, I think you have really maybe one of the very few flops of the RTD era, which is the doctor's daughter, which I sort of think of as most likely Doctor Who candidates for defenestration since that Dalek in resurrection.

680
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:18.960
So, I could cheerfully eject that one.

681
00:53:19.320 --> 00:53:21.780
Have I had my favourites?

682
00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:22.739
I don't think I have.

683
00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:26.159
Um, I think you're all wrong.

684
00:53:26.219 --> 00:53:29.460
And it's the, uh, it's the Santaran 2-parter.

685
00:53:30.659 --> 00:53:32.099
No.

686
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:40.920
I think my favourite, my my favourite Doctor Who story of Russell's era is probably turn left.

687
00:53:41.460 --> 00:53:53.760
Just because it's, It's so perfect in its darkness and it's, The, the performances in that story are just amazing.

688
00:53:53.820 --> 00:53:55.380
I mean, it's heartbreaking.

689
00:53:55.800 --> 00:54:04.860
And it takes, you know, the the events of, you know, this season and the and, you know, the major events for the last 4 years.

690
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:16.739
Or at least the last, you know, 2.5 years and turns on its head and shows how dark the world would be without this character helping people.

691
00:54:17.519 --> 00:54:20.280
James, I totally agree with you.

692
00:54:20.340 --> 00:54:29.219
And like I've seen other series try to do the same thing. whether it be fantasy or general US series and I don't think this can be better.

693
00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:32.099
Like I really, you know, I just think it is just that good.

694
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:43.320
And it packs such a one to punch with midnight, where one of them knocks the stuffing out of the doctor and then the next one knocks the stuffing out of Donna, and by the end of it, you're just gasping for breath.

695
00:54:43.619 --> 00:54:45.360
It's amazing.

696
00:54:45.420 --> 00:54:55.320
We didn't say this when we were talking about Donna, but it's the only time where they do a double banked episode where they hang it entirely on the companion.

697
00:54:55.380 --> 00:54:59.880
You know, they get someone else in to be the lead in series three.

698
00:54:59.940 --> 00:55:03.420
They get someone else in to be the lead in series too.

699
00:55:03.480 --> 00:55:07.500
Um, you know, they, they don't hang it on Billy or Freema.

700
00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:09.059
They hang it on someone else entirely.

701
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:18.420
And now you've got someone who you are absolutely delighted to watch an entire episode centred on them for the very 1st time.

702
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:20.159
I would watch an entire series of that.

703
00:55:20.219 --> 00:55:22.619
You can listen to it at Big Finish.

704
00:55:23.340 --> 00:55:25.260
Of course you can.

705
00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:36.539
Okay, we're going to do another house party.

706
00:55:36.599 --> 00:55:43.260
Obviously coming up, 2 things you've got to think about, the Jenny Laird Award, and the Bonnie Langford, for most startling discovery.

707
00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:45.239
Remember we started that last series.

708
00:55:45.300 --> 00:55:53.460
But let's go into our next house party, which is a combination of a mixed pot pourri of different things.

709
00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:57.780
So here, location, location, and the enemy within.

710
00:55:57.840 --> 00:55:58.679
All right.

711
00:55:58.739 --> 00:56:02.219
Ood brain or the ood brain.

712
00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:05.460
I'll have one for an entrée and one for a main.

713
00:56:06.539 --> 00:56:08.340
All right, thank you.

714
00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:11.820
The planet Messaline or a planet called Midnight.

715
00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:14.219
Sorry, was that the planet Vaseline?

716
00:56:15.900 --> 00:56:17.579
Midnight.

717
00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:19.139
It's got a nice pool.

718
00:56:19.380 --> 00:56:20.940
All right.

719
00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:23.820
Project indigo or the subway network?

720
00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:26.820
Oh, subway for work every time.

721
00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:28.440
Yep, yep.

722
00:56:28.500 --> 00:56:29.460
Right.

723
00:56:29.460 --> 00:56:36.659
Although, Project Indigo does take you immediately to go and visit Francine, so it does have does have that going for it.

724
00:56:36.780 --> 00:56:37.380
Amazing.

725
00:56:37.380 --> 00:56:39.900
And then to see German Daleks.

726
00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:43.199
And also the subwave network keeps rose off it, so you know.

727
00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:50.400
Oh, the reality bomb or the Osterhagen key.

728
00:56:50.460 --> 00:56:52.320
The earth's gone key.

729
00:56:53.699 --> 00:57:04.679
I love the reality bomb because it's a bomb that blows up reality, you know, like I just think it is the best bit of techno babble in Doctor Who history.

730
00:57:04.739 --> 00:57:06.840
It does exactly what it says on the team.

731
00:57:06.900 --> 00:57:09.539
Most bombs, if they're big enough would sort of blow up reality.

732
00:57:09.780 --> 00:57:15.119
But all of reality for the Hagen does keep it only if it's salted caramel.

733
00:57:18.179 --> 00:57:19.679
Okay.

734
00:57:19.739 --> 00:57:23.940
Martha's unformed clone or the Trickster's Beetle.

735
00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:29.880
The tricks is Beetle because you can wear it as a backpack.

736
00:57:29.940 --> 00:57:30.840
Yep, yep.

737
00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:32.039
Excellent.

738
00:57:32.099 --> 00:57:34.199
Atmos or Google Maps?

739
00:57:34.260 --> 00:57:40.199
Oh, I think I think Atmos is probably a little bit more respectful of your privacy.

740
00:57:40.260 --> 00:57:41.340
Yeah, less evil.

741
00:57:41.400 --> 00:57:43.739
I'm going to go for COVID safe.

742
00:57:47.460 --> 00:57:50.699
Dr. Moon or the Lost Moon of Poosh.

743
00:57:54.179 --> 00:57:57.480
Well, Dr. Moon because he's just so gorgeous.

744
00:57:57.539 --> 00:57:58.679
Yeah, hot.

745
00:57:58.739 --> 00:57:59.820
He's terrific.

746
00:57:59.880 --> 00:58:01.920
And just today.

747
00:58:02.039 --> 00:58:18.719
It was revealed in the radio times, and I'll put this in the show notes, that Dr. Moon was a future version of the doctor who has died and uploaded himself to a computer so that he can look after River song when she gets uploaded to the computer.

748
00:58:18.780 --> 00:58:20.760
So, uh, that's Canon.

749
00:58:20.820 --> 00:58:22.079
It's a multidoctor story.

750
00:58:22.139 --> 00:58:27.360
Both Stephen and Russell verify that that's what they were thinking about.

751
00:58:27.420 --> 00:58:29.099
Are you kidding me?

752
00:58:29.159 --> 00:58:30.840
Nope, absolutely.

753
00:58:30.900 --> 00:58:34.380
Well, they were thinking that Chipnell has introduced a 1000 new doctors.

754
00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:35.820
Why don't we introduce another one as well?

755
00:58:37.139 --> 00:58:38.579
Okay.

756
00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:40.739
Sorry, I'm just taking a moment.

757
00:58:41.699 --> 00:58:43.260
All right.

758
00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:46.199
Well, this is for Nathan.

759
00:58:46.260 --> 00:58:51.960
Miss Foster's henchman number one or Miss Foster's henchman number two.

760
00:58:52.019 --> 00:58:54.659
There is one of them that I really like.

761
00:58:54.719 --> 00:59:01.500
There's one who's got sort of more of a shaved head and stuff and is a little bit more sort of blocky and I like him.

762
00:59:01.559 --> 00:59:03.840
I'm going to say poke no los dos.

763
00:59:04.260 --> 00:59:08.219
I'll go for another Miss Foster employee, call centre guy.

764
00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:09.300
Oh yeah.

765
00:59:09.360 --> 00:59:10.199
Okay.

766
00:59:10.260 --> 00:59:12.300
Davros or Dalek Khan?

767
00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:14.519
Uh, Dafros.

768
00:59:14.579 --> 00:59:16.739
I think you can have a better conversation with Dav Ross.

769
00:59:16.980 --> 00:59:20.280
Though Dalek Khan saves the day in the end, really.

770
00:59:20.340 --> 00:59:22.079
What an idiot.

771
00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:25.619
It's a very convoluted plan.

772
00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:33.539
My theory is the Dalek Khan is played by Terry Malloy because Dalek Khan and Terry Malloy's Davros both have a nice line in gurgling laughter.

773
00:59:36.900 --> 00:59:39.480
The Santarian stratagem?

774
00:59:39.480 --> 00:59:41.760
Or the Santarian experiment?

775
00:59:41.820 --> 00:59:43.980
Oh, experiment every time.

776
00:59:44.579 --> 00:59:51.119
I actually think that sometime experiment isn't very good, and it's certainly horrible.

777
00:59:51.659 --> 00:59:54.300
Who was I having this conversation with?

778
00:59:54.360 --> 00:59:54.900
I can't remember.

779
00:59:54.960 --> 00:59:55.980
I was talking to someone online.

780
00:59:56.039 --> 01:00:03.000
But we were sort of saying that the problem with Santaran experiment is that Liz Sladen's acting is too good.

781
01:00:03.059 --> 01:00:07.679
And so it's too horrifying, much too horrifying.

782
01:00:07.739 --> 01:00:21.599
And so in a way, Santarin strategy being a sort of light, silly early season, RTD 2 parter, even though it has a lot of problems, is a bit less relentless than, you know, Santarin experimented half the length.

783
01:00:21.659 --> 01:00:27.659
I prefer this on taran experiment, South African agenda, to the Santaran stratagems, Polish agenda.

784
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:34.199
Um, and finally, Helen Rayner or Douglas McKinnon?

785
01:00:34.260 --> 01:00:35.760
Oh dear.

786
01:00:36.420 --> 01:00:38.280
Helen Rayner.

787
01:00:38.340 --> 01:00:45.599
She brought us some Daleks in Manhattan, and there are some good scenes in that Santara 2 parter.

788
01:00:45.659 --> 01:00:47.099
James.

789
01:00:47.159 --> 01:00:48.360
Anything?

790
01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:50.159
Your face.

791
01:00:50.219 --> 01:00:52.800
That is a really terrible choice. neither.

792
01:00:52.920 --> 01:00:54.480
Neither.

793
01:00:54.539 --> 01:00:55.980
Perfectly acceptable.

794
01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:05.219
We're now up to 2 of our major awards.

795
01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:11.519
Then Jenny Laird Award are nominations and the Bonnie Langford, the most startling discovery.

796
01:01:11.579 --> 01:01:12.239
Who would like to start?

797
01:01:12.300 --> 01:01:14.219
I'll do it, Jenny.

798
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:19.079
And can I say Ed Thomas for the doctor's daughter?

799
01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:26.699
That terrible, terrible decision to set it in lots of old theatres and stuff for no readily apparent reason.

800
01:01:26.760 --> 01:01:28.800
It's baffling and terrible.

801
01:01:29.699 --> 01:01:34.500
I would like to add to that with my Jenny Laird Award nomination, Nathan.

802
01:01:34.559 --> 01:01:36.239
I think that was a terrible decision.

803
01:01:36.300 --> 01:01:42.119
And then I think casting general cobblers and putting him in those locations was a doubly terrible decision.

804
01:01:42.179 --> 01:01:43.380
General cob loaf.

805
01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:51.239
Look, I think I have to agree.

806
01:01:52.980 --> 01:02:02.579
That story could have been really quite interesting, given the right setting and and some, you know, better creative choices.

807
01:02:02.639 --> 01:02:07.619
Well, I'm agreeing with you on all of everything that you've just said.

808
01:02:07.739 --> 01:02:10.800
So we're all on the same page with this one.

809
01:02:10.980 --> 01:02:21.119
It seems that, you know, everything has coalesced so that just that one, there's that one not bright spark, but the one black hole of Tartarus in this season.

810
01:02:21.539 --> 01:02:25.139
So there's not so much, there's not so much nominations.

811
01:02:25.199 --> 01:02:26.400
We've all nominated the same.

812
01:02:26.460 --> 01:02:27.900
So the award games too.

813
01:02:27.960 --> 01:02:29.519
Any aspect of that story.

814
01:02:29.699 --> 01:02:32.340
Oh, and that's nothing against Georgia.

815
01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:36.000
I think Georgia is actually the one shining light in that story.

816
01:02:36.119 --> 01:02:41.880
She's a good actress. given a terrible story. agree with you.

817
01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:47.219
And look, I mean, you can you can kind of see why they got married because they had chemistry.

818
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:51.000
Like, you can, like, you can kind of see the beginnings of that relationship.

819
01:02:51.059 --> 01:02:54.420
Like, and now look what, they have 5 children, for God's sake.

820
01:02:54.480 --> 01:03:00.300
Can you pinpoint the exact moment between studio days when they consummated their relationship for the 1st time?

821
01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:04.920
Please edit that out.

822
01:03:04.980 --> 01:03:08.039
With an extra twinkle, there's an extra twinkle in the eye.

823
01:03:09.119 --> 01:03:12.059
I think it was the day after she did the backflips.

824
01:03:12.179 --> 01:03:14.519
There was something that lit up...

825
01:03:14.579 --> 01:03:16.800
Um, scripture.

826
01:03:16.920 --> 01:03:22.559
I was otherwise known as Kevin Bernard, has said those are not backflips.

827
01:03:22.619 --> 01:03:23.880
There you go.

828
01:03:23.940 --> 01:03:25.860
The Bonnie Langford.

829
01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:27.659
I'm giving it to RTD.

830
01:03:27.719 --> 01:03:31.559
You know, I just, like maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

831
01:03:31.619 --> 01:03:56.519
Maybe he's not, he doesn't quite fit the category, but every year it's got better and better, and this year, in Doctor Who, and particularly in the finale, he manages to bring together an entire world that constitutes 4 series of Doctor Who and 2 spinoff shows and just make something absolutely unforgettable out of it.

832
01:03:56.579 --> 01:03:59.699
So he gets my Bonnie Langford.

833
01:03:59.760 --> 01:04:01.800
Can I please give to Bonnie Langford?

834
01:04:01.860 --> 01:04:02.340
Why not?

835
01:04:02.340 --> 01:04:02.760
Why not?

836
01:04:02.820 --> 01:04:05.159
I don't know between 2 Bonnies Langford?

837
01:04:05.219 --> 01:04:07.380
Bonnie Langford, exactly.

838
01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:11.340
Mel in her time in the Rani outfit and Mel in her Paradise Towers out.

839
01:04:12.360 --> 01:04:16.079
I would also build on what Nathan's saying there.

840
01:04:16.139 --> 01:04:43.800
I would give it to Russell specifically for midnight, because I think it's just, An indication of the talent that we had in Russell, where they had a script, which apparently was a perfectly serviceable script called Century House, which, for whatever reason, was ditched at the last minute, and Russell said, I've got an idea, I'll write you something, and in no time at all, produced the amazing concept and drama of midnight.

841
01:04:43.860 --> 01:04:45.659
And as you said earlier, Nathan.

842
01:04:45.719 --> 01:04:48.840
It's a stage play, and it's a really damn good stage play.

843
01:04:48.900 --> 01:04:56.639
So I think you've just got to give him all of the kudos for not only being able to turn out brilliant things, but being able to do them at the drop of the hat.

844
01:04:56.820 --> 01:05:12.000
And also I would give my other Bonnie Langford to the character development that Donna had in the Fires of Pompeii, which takes an already brilliant character and gives her really wonderful depth and emotional wallop.

845
01:05:12.059 --> 01:05:17.940
And those last 5 minutes of Pompeii entirely rest on Donna's reaction to what's happening.

846
01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:19.380
And it's just brilliant.

847
01:05:19.440 --> 01:05:21.480
I mean, hats off to you, Russell.

848
01:05:21.539 --> 01:05:22.980
You absolutely know what you're doing.

849
01:05:23.039 --> 01:05:39.360
My Bunny Langford Award is also for Russell, but for for nagging Jane Tranter, for years and years every time he met her to let him make Doctor Who, because otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

850
01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:41.940
What's yours, Todd?

851
01:05:42.059 --> 01:05:48.599
I'm not going to nominate Russell, although I think it's done absolute brilliant work this year.

852
01:05:48.659 --> 01:05:52.139
There's 2 startling discoveries for me this year.

853
01:05:52.199 --> 01:05:53.340
One is Graham Harper.

854
01:05:53.820 --> 01:05:58.980
Because I just think he puts an incredible performance as incredible performance.

855
01:05:59.039 --> 01:06:12.420
He does incredible job as a director on so many episodes, but in Unicorn and the Wasp, he's absolutely absolutely brilliant and he's not having to rescue things or do like explosions with fire or have guns toting.

856
01:06:12.480 --> 01:06:22.980
And but he does that in so well in so many other episodes, but that's just, I was amazed at how many episodes he actually directed and the variation, just absolutely underscoring this season.

857
01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:36.960
And sort of combined with that is Planet of the Oud, which is the story for me that just sort of went from, oh, yeah, that's okay to like this is a 9 out of 10, which I just did not expect.

858
01:06:37.619 --> 01:06:41.340
It's so close to what Doctor Who should be about.

859
01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:42.659
You know, it's so good.

860
01:06:43.500 --> 01:06:58.079
Before we move on to wrap up, is there anything else that you'd like to say about this season, in terms of any performances or anything that we may have forgotten, um, I had the adipose.

861
01:06:58.139 --> 01:06:58.739
That was the other thing.

862
01:06:58.800 --> 01:06:59.820
I love the adipose.

863
01:06:59.880 --> 01:07:18.000
If there's one if there's one creation this year that, you know, I actually have an adipose, I don't buy, I don't buy like all this Doctor Who merchandise stuff, but I do have my little friend, my little adipose here with me today, right?

864
01:07:18.059 --> 01:07:19.920
My God, Todd, watch out.

865
01:07:19.980 --> 01:07:20.820
It might attack you.

866
01:07:20.880 --> 01:07:22.619
You've already got the CSO kitchen.

867
01:07:22.739 --> 01:07:23.940
It's got a fang.

868
01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:31.079
I would say that very rarely is something at its most popular when it's at its best.

869
01:07:31.139 --> 01:07:34.380
Um, and Doctor Who manages it this season.

870
01:07:34.440 --> 01:07:37.139
It manages to be the most popular.

871
01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:43.139
It's ever been with the general public, and on the back of being maybe the best it has ever been.

872
01:07:43.199 --> 01:07:44.880
That's so unlikely.

873
01:07:45.420 --> 01:07:48.719
Yeah, I'm actually going to miss Russell.

874
01:07:48.780 --> 01:07:51.840
I'm looking forward to going through the Moffat era.

875
01:07:51.900 --> 01:08:04.500
I mean, we've got a few specials and stuff later on this year to do, but I am really looking forward to doing the Moffat era because it's not something that I've necessarily revisited.

876
01:08:04.559 --> 01:08:07.800
I've got a high opinion of it. think there are a lot of good things there.

877
01:08:07.860 --> 01:08:13.500
But for me, this is my Doctor Who, absolutely without question.

878
01:08:13.559 --> 01:08:15.719
This whole era has been magnificent.

879
01:08:15.780 --> 01:08:31.260
And we'll have the chance to express all these sentiments again in the David Tennant retrospective, I think, but let's just say it now because this is his last full series and we just didn't deserve him.

880
01:08:31.500 --> 01:08:33.000
Absolutely.

881
01:08:42.060 --> 01:08:48.420
I always talk about, you know, what we go into next, what's your feeling before we actually see the things, and the next thing is the specials.

882
01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:53.279
Do you have any comments to make about the specials at all before we see them?

883
01:08:53.340 --> 01:08:54.180
Where are you at with them?

884
01:08:54.479 --> 01:09:00.239
I haven't rewatched them for the podcast, so I haven't sort of seen them for a while.

885
01:09:00.720 --> 01:09:03.960
I'm a little bit iffy about them, I think.

886
01:09:04.020 --> 01:09:06.600
They're mostly disposable for me.

887
01:09:06.659 --> 01:09:14.880
In a lot of ways, I wish that Dalek had killed David in episode...

888
01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:16.140
Well, maybe not David.

889
01:09:16.140 --> 01:09:19.800
Well, you know.

890
01:09:19.800 --> 01:09:32.220
Not because, like, I wanted the character to leave, but in some ways, like, this, the final 2 part of this season is, is...

891
01:09:33.060 --> 01:09:35.760
Perf- it's a perfect end to the show.

892
01:09:35.819 --> 01:09:48.119
In some ways, having that character, you know, save the universe with his friends and then regenerate would have would for me have been a better end than what we got.

893
01:09:49.199 --> 01:09:52.560
And look, not to say anything against the specials.

894
01:09:52.619 --> 01:10:05.520
The specials are enjoyable, but they're, it feels like they've been tacked on at the end because they had to buy another year for, um, Moffatt to get up to speed with with his version of the show.

895
01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:11.039
I think specials are not a great way of doing Doctor Who, and that's part of the problem.

896
01:10:11.159 --> 01:10:15.659
The Doctor Who is something that has to happen every week and has to be different from week to week.

897
01:10:15.720 --> 01:10:17.579
And so, yeah, unless it's Christmas.

898
01:10:17.640 --> 01:10:18.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

899
01:10:18.720 --> 01:10:23.460
Well, we'll get to talk about that at the end of the next, well, at the end of the specials, really.

900
01:10:23.520 --> 01:10:30.060
And, you know, for me, they're up and down and all over the place and this would have been a great final.

901
01:10:30.479 --> 01:10:34.920
Well, you know, I think they actually suffer from the loss of production momentum.

902
01:10:34.979 --> 01:10:43.500
I think that regardless of how exhausted Russell and Julie and Phil and everyone else was as they sort of barrelled through 3 full-time seasons.

903
01:10:43.560 --> 01:10:51.899
There's kind of a creative synergy that comes from that where they just keep on being brilliant because they're naturally creative people.

904
01:10:51.960 --> 01:10:55.199
I think the moment that they take their foot off the accelerator.

905
01:10:55.260 --> 01:11:01.199
Everything kind of collapses a little bit and they have to try very hard to wind it back up into those specials.

906
01:11:01.500 --> 01:11:04.560
Well, here we are at the end of series 4.

907
01:11:04.859 --> 01:11:08.939
I was going to do one more house party, but they get that one final time.

908
01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:10.739
It's Snog, marry, avoid.

909
01:11:11.579 --> 01:11:12.060
Hooray.

910
01:11:12.119 --> 01:11:13.979
Zog, Mary, avoid.

911
01:11:14.039 --> 01:11:16.859
So James, I'm starting with you.

912
01:11:17.340 --> 01:11:19.739
Snog, Mario, void.

913
01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:23.640
Friends of the Oud, the household gods.

914
01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:29.640
The people visiting midnight in the car in that band thing with the doctor.

915
01:11:30.060 --> 01:11:35.460
I would avoid the people on the bus in midnight.

916
01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:36.180
Good choice.

917
01:11:36.239 --> 01:11:37.739
Because they're terrible people.

918
01:11:38.220 --> 01:11:40.739
They're just a bunch of...

919
01:11:41.939 --> 01:11:44.640
A bus floating between us.

920
01:11:44.699 --> 01:11:47.100
Yes, yes, yes, I have.

921
01:11:48.539 --> 01:11:50.939
So I'd avoid them.

922
01:11:51.119 --> 01:12:04.199
I would marry friends of the Eude, because they have good politics and seem to be decent people, and...

923
01:12:04.199 --> 01:12:07.199
Oh, stock of the household gods.

924
01:12:07.260 --> 01:12:11.220
Well, well, that's a threesome, David, Catherine Day.

925
01:12:11.279 --> 01:12:11.939
Okay.

926
01:12:12.899 --> 01:12:15.119
That's not, yeah.

927
01:12:15.479 --> 01:12:17.100
All right.

928
01:12:17.159 --> 01:12:17.880
Thank you.

929
01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:19.380
Peter.

930
01:12:19.800 --> 01:12:21.180
Yes.

931
01:12:21.239 --> 01:12:22.020
Quintus.

932
01:12:22.560 --> 01:12:26.279
Davenport, Ross Jenkins.

933
01:12:27.600 --> 01:12:29.520
Good grief.

934
01:12:29.579 --> 01:12:33.720
That's the argument for bigamy that we've been waiting for.

935
01:12:33.779 --> 01:12:34.920
I mean, wow.

936
01:12:35.039 --> 01:12:44.460
All right, so I would definitely Snog Ross because he's not a particularly great actor, so I'm not sure you'd want him around all of the time, but he'd be very good for snogging.

937
01:12:44.520 --> 01:13:03.359
Um, I would um, avoid Davenport, unless he was bringing me a sidecar cocktail and I would marry, um, I would marry Quintus because I think marrying into that family would be great and you'd have Peter Capaldi as your father-in-law.

938
01:13:03.600 --> 01:13:05.399
There you go.

939
01:13:05.460 --> 01:13:05.760
Wow.

940
01:13:05.819 --> 01:13:06.180
Okay.

941
01:13:06.239 --> 01:13:08.159
And Nathan, Snog Mario Void.

942
01:13:08.220 --> 01:13:12.359
Theme park historicals, the doctor's daughter, the massacre.

943
01:13:15.659 --> 01:13:18.180
Which are you going to avoid?

944
01:13:18.239 --> 01:13:23.579
Well, I'll avoid the massacre for reasons that are now well rehearsed and well understood.

945
01:13:23.640 --> 01:13:24.659
Legion.

946
01:13:24.720 --> 01:13:36.060
I would probably I would marry the doctor's daughter, but I would obviously cheat on that story with celebrity historicals.

947
01:13:36.119 --> 01:13:38.520
So that would be the one that I would snog.

948
01:13:38.760 --> 01:13:40.439
That'd be great.

949
01:13:40.500 --> 01:13:48.300
Can you imagine married to the doctor's daughter sitting in that car bickering until the end of your life and just pining away for being with Unicorn and the Wasp?

950
01:14:15.659 --> 01:14:19.680
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this series.

951
01:14:19.800 --> 01:14:26.399
So, we'll be having a few weeks' well earned break before returning for Christmas in July with the next doctor.

952
01:14:26.819 --> 01:14:43.020
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook, add FTE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, Flightthrough Entirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, and Jody into Terra.

953
01:14:43.199 --> 01:14:51.300
Until next time, every night when it gets dark and the stars come out, we'll look up at the sky and think of you.

954
01:14:51.359 --> 01:14:54.359
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

955
01:14:54.420 --> 01:14:55.439
Good night.

956
01:14:55.500 --> 01:14:56.760
Midnight.

957
01:14:56.819 --> 01:14:57.899
See you soon.

958
01:15:00.960 --> 01:15:05.100
That was Flight 3 Entirety, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffith, St.

959
01:15:05.100 --> 01:15:05.939
James Selwood.

960
01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:09.899
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane Orberg.

961
01:15:09.960 --> 01:15:16.859
This episode, Dalek Khan saves the day, was recorded on the 3rd of May 2020 and released on the 14th of June.

962
01:15:19.920 --> 01:15:32.340
Fans of Snogmarrier Void will be delighted to learn that the only correct response this series would be to snob Dr. Moon to marry Dr. Moon and to avoid not snogging or marrying Dr. Moon.

963
01:15:33.600 --> 01:15:36.659
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

964
01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:38.100
Good night.

965
01:15:38.939 --> 01:15:40.619
Midnight.

966
01:15:40.680 --> 01:15:42.420
At midnight.

967
01:15:44.159 --> 01:15:45.960
See you soon.

968
01:15:46.020 --> 01:15:47.159
Brilliant.

969
01:15:47.220 --> 01:15:49.859
The 2 of you said good night at midnight at the same time.

970
01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:52.020
No, because you're on different tracks.

971
01:15:52.020 --> 01:15:52.859
I can fix it.

972
01:15:52.979 --> 01:15:55.020
You can just cut this number, make it sound like idiot.

973
01:15:55.079 --> 01:15:56.100
You can save it in post.

974
01:15:56.220 --> 01:15:57.659
More like idiot than I usually do.

975
01:15:57.720 --> 01:16:02.100
It's I notice I avoided Snorg Mario boy.

976
01:16:02.159 --> 01:16:04.619
I'm being charged, so I am.

977
01:16:04.619 --> 01:16:07.619
That was very cool of you giving me so many hotties.

978
01:16:07.739 --> 01:16:09.420
Who are you?

979
01:16:09.479 --> 01:16:11.279
No, you snog them.

980
01:16:11.340 --> 01:16:13.560
Marry them and then avoid them all at once.

981
01:16:13.619 --> 01:16:16.020
Well, in succession, I would think.

982
01:16:16.380 --> 01:16:19.079
That's my grinder technique, as we well know.

983
01:16:19.140 --> 01:16:20.100
Polyamorous.

984
01:16:20.159 --> 01:16:21.720
Todd, that was fantastic.

985
01:16:21.779 --> 01:16:22.680
That was so great.

986
01:16:22.739 --> 01:16:25.319
Can I ask everyone to stop?

987
01:16:25.439 --> 01:16:26.460
Yep.

988
01:16:26.460 --> 01:16:27.300
In the name of love.