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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:44:45

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight from Entirety, the only Doctor Who commentary podcast that thinks that nothing is more festive than widowhood, child labour, and violently electrocuting a bunch of old white men.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Todd, and I'm a hastily put together copper kettle with one of Katie Manning's old black stray cats, hand me downs draped all over it, much like this podcast.

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So it's Christmas in July.

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Uh, and uh, as is now traditional uh, at Yuletide.

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We've all gathered together in order to look at the 2008, I want to say, Christmas special, which is the next doctor.

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So we have taken a bit of a break and we will continue to take a bit of a break.

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We're going to be back later in the year with the rest of the specials.

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But for now, what could be more Christmassy than July and some sort of faux Victorian stuff and some even faux snow?

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Victorian values All right.

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So we have our Blu-ray on the menu screen. and I'm going to ask Brendan to press play and the viewer to press play when I next say our code word.

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And what is our code word?

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Our code word is mercy.

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So when I next say that word, I want everyone at home to press the play button, all right, here goes mercy.

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We'll need it. we're off.

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Yeah, this looks super fake, doesn't it?

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Whooshing.

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Peter Bush.

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Oh, so do we want to talk about what was going to lead into this at the end of...

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Well, drunkenness, I think, about the speed which it appears to have been written in.

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So I think Nathan is referring to the fact that there was a cliffhanger ending filmed for Journey's end where the doctor is travelling in the TARD. having dropped Donna off and 2 cybermen appear behind him.

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And he gets to say what, what, what?

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And he gets to say, what, what, what?

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And the 1st scene of this was then going to be the sidemen fading away, the doctor realising they were in the vortex and following them, Russell quite rightly decided to get rid of that before this was shot.

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Um, so, uh, look, I love this opening scene. because the last time we have seen the doctor, you know, he is heartbroken with what he has had to do to Donna, and this scene just tells us, you know, we are not going to have another year, like with Martha, where he's pining for his lost companion for 13 episodes.

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No, we are straight in and we are having fun.

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Well, except that we are pining for his companion in this.

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We will lace to discover. but you're right And the viewer is?

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Well, I mean, how many weeks is it?

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Is it months between?

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Oh, it's months.

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It's now months.

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So we're allowed to have forgotten Donna.

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Oh, look.

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So this is Rosita.

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She is absolutely superb.

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What do you think Todd?

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Yes, I like her a lot.

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Rosita.

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Yeah.

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Oh, and look, it's the new doctor.

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It's it's CBS's answer to Dr. Pin Medicine, where you're 1996.

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Oh, really?

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Well, I'm just saying like if CBS were going to cast somebody, they would cast David Morrissey in that coach and everything and call it Doctor Who, time traveller.

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I think he works for me.

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He's got a very old young face.

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Yeah, old face.

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No, he's got a very old kind of a classic doctor kind of vibe to him, you know, it's a big, it's a big performance.

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It's a sort of Colin Bake-ish performance.

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I think it's a bit Jack D on uppers.

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He's got, if you know, the current host of, I'm sorry, I haven't a clue in everything else that he does.

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I like David Morrissey from what I've just seen of all .3 seconds of him is because he's a lot naughtier and bigger than how he's playing it.

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I think he'd be one of those rambunctious, bit more Tom.

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What's his favourite thing you like to do, Dr. Pubs?

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like doing pubs?

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Oh dear.

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Meeting ladies in pubs.

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Yes.

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That is I want to say it's crap, but I have a cat that does that.

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But it's not even a cat, like that is actually quite shocking, that cyber shade thing.

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It feels like Shilly Bassie's comeback. don't know why.

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I just think it's...

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I just think as an Taryn Woodbeast, that Sidemen had picked up and then slapped on a mask.

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My head pennon is that it is a cat.

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Um, but which is why it has has um, brass hands so that it can climb things.

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And so later on it can, you know, drive a hansom cab later.

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But the whole cyber kind of process floods it with hormones and turns it into a person in a sort of gorilla suit.

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I haven't seen any of this.

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I'd like to think Russell is having a go at the Tyron Woodbeast.

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I really liked, and it wasn't just that he wrote it at 3 AM in the morning after 2 bottles of whiskey.

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I also think it didn't turn out the way it originally intended.

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And the names cyber shade suggests this, that they were going to be sort of more ghost.

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Raston warrior skin suit thing.

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But I mean, this is fun.

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This is Christmas and we're already pissed, you know, like this is fun.

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Ow, ow, ow, ow.

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And we've got like, you know, we're having David Tennant's bums, you know?

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That's really hurting.

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We're not going to burn through our... trousers at all.

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Yeah.

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No, but, you know, like a scene where David Tennant... that hurts.

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Good.

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I've wanted that for 3 years.

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Morrissey is completely unconvincing as the doctor.

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I don't mind it a bit.

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No, I think so too.

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I think this is the big problem.

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He's your dad's idea of who Doctor Who is. exactly.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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He was never going to be the next doctor because he's not cockney and he doesn't know pop culture and it was never, ever going to be this.

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But I think we didn't know that.

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Did we or did we?

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No, no, we didn't.

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We absolutely didn't.

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They kept it under wraps.

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As soon as confidential comes out, you know, Russell says, of course, he was never going to be the doctor, but because we'd just done this fake out regeneration a few weeks ago.

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And because everyone knows that David is leaving by now.

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So between that, um, actually, no, it was before, um, Journey's End went out that it was announced that Tennant was leaving, which is why that regeneration had such an impact, um, they're playing with it again here.

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And I think Richard, in terms of him being unconvincing, it is, as Nathan says, because he is the public's idea of what the old Doctor Who's are.

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And to the point that as opposed to tenet, he is very sexless.

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And there are a couple of moments here and there where Rosita kind of looks at him and he's completely oblivious too to any romantic overtures because he's a classic Doctor Who.

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But he said that he actually went and looked at like the 1st 4 doctors.

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That's who he studied to come up with this.

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But I like the fact that he is so unconvincing because we know that he's not the doctor and the doctor's half fooled by it, you know?

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Yeah, should we have moments of honesty?

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These were the days when several of us were being very careful to not look at the giveaways, weren't we?

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I think Brendan, you and I were.

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I thought he was.

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You did.

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Yeah, well, I didn't believe as such.

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Pretty handsome in that shot.

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It's dashing.

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I mean, he can see incredible.

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I can see him coming emerging erectly from a mill pond and exciting 18th century young ladies in Bordices.

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He's a lovely pile, you have, Mr. Arcy.

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He is a plausible choice to cast for the next one.

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It's a plausible choice.

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Yeah.

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And he's dashed, and looking, he's doing he's doing scrute.

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He's doing pert we stare?

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He's kind of lovely.

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He's just so enormously Irish.

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I'm not being racialist.

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He's just enormously Irish.

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I actually think that the best thing about him is him being sort of, you know, a bit lost.

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And then later on, I think he does a great job, you know, when he finds out who he is.

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But it does, I mean, this is supposed to be, you know, the hook for the story, isn't it?

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Like it's called the next doctor.

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That's what all the publicity was about.

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He was appearing on chat shows and people were saying, are you the next doctor and stuff like that?

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Like it was a thing, but I just don't know that it works as a hook.

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Well, maybe initially, but it becomes very obvious that he's not the next doctor.

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Yeah.

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I think it's the moment where he says the cyberman landed onto London or appeared onto London or something.

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It's kind of like, you haven't really mastered the whole kind of lingo thing.

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He's a little bit too Victorian, I think.

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Well, he's probably hung over.

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Oh.

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Yeah, something I love about this story is bat cyberman.

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The way the cybermen are directed.

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There's although there's all those shots from beneath.

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We've got the cyber leader with, you know, the black carapace and brain, brain.

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Yep.

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Big black Teflon cyber crotch.

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Hello.

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This is directed by Andy Goddard.

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I think this is the only Doctor Who he does, but he does 6 Torchwoods.

149
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Is that why did he not?

150
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Oh, just cause torchwood.

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I like that he's doing a lot of interesting woo-woo, as you were saying.

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It feels very much how you would film now rather than even 5 years ago.

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Yeah.

154
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And I think also, possibly part of the reason he doesn't go on to do more is, of course, very few, if any, um, directors from Russell's era go on to the Moffatt era, Ashley Way does, I know, who, um, uh, he did Attack of the Grasp.

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But I think it's not so much a conscious choice of, I don't want these people, but more probably more a choice of, I know I want these people.

156
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Um, so I don't think it's a JNT thing of, I don't want anyone more experienced than me because I think, you know, Moffat was so established as a producer that I don't think he would have thought that.

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And of course he gets writers back, certainly, from the Russell era.

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But I think it's probably a matter of Moffatt going, I know, I know the directors I want to work with and bring them on.

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And also people like Eros Lynn have kind of said, you know, when Russell and Julie went, they were my team.

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So I learned as well, et cetera.

161
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Yeah me too.

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Yeah.

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And certainly no directors from the Moffeteer I have thus far directed for the Chibnol era.

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I think, you know, like, when you take over making a big change to how the show looks, and both mop it.

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Both Moppet and Chiefnell have done that.

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So you're going to have your own directors rather than bringing back people who have a certain style associated with the previous showrunner.

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Well, I think this Sonic joke. love it.

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I love it.

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Um, I just, I just find this episode so much fun and it, it hangs on the chemistry between these 2 who had worked together. before in Blackpool.

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The TV series, not necessarily the location.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I'm getting a bit of a vibe that they've both snogged and both decided to put it behind them and never mentioned it again.

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It's that kind of chemistry element, yeah.

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Also, girls not getting much of a look in.

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No.

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So this scene is the one where Russell on the commentary says, actually, this is not our Doctor Who style.

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The camera's too, um, you know, it moves too much.

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It's a little bit more modern.

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This is what we do in torture.

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Doctor Who's house style doesn't actually do this.

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Yeah, it's all handheld.

183
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Yeah.

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Yeah.

185
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It is quite different.

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Whereas it's that, you know, stylised hyper real thing that Doctor Who normally does in this era.

187
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But yeah, I like the uneasiness of this camera work.

188
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It works for the plot because we don't know what's going on and the viewer themselves are uncomfortable and uncertain, but I don't know whether that's a conscious creative choice or not.

189
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I think, you know, I think that this is the sort of thing that Moffatt would have done better than Russell, because all Russell is going to come up with is it was a tech thing that did it.

190
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Do you know what I mean?

191
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Whereas you would have to think that Moffatt, you know, when he creates a mystery.

192
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He properly pays it off and does something that, you know, is incredibly clever, that you feel like you would never have thought of.

193
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And Russell will Russell said later that as soon as he watched it on broadcast, he realised what he got wrong about the ending.

194
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Yeah, I love that bit with the pocket watch.

195
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It's just a broken pocket watch.

196
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I still wasn't convinced.

197
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Does anyone else remember their 1st viewing of this?

198
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I do, actually, because it was the 1st episode I viewed when I moved to the UK.

199
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Oh, and I was at my then boyfriend's house.

200
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Hello, Lee, if you're listening.

201
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His family house, right, because they took me in for Christmas, which was lovely.

202
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On the doorstep in a tiny basket.

203
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He's not...

204
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Dear listener.

205
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He doesn't take up a lot of space.

206
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But yeah, you know, this, this, as Nathan says, we're all, you know, we're already drunk watching this, this is the perfect episode to watch in a large crowd of people.

207
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We've had fans and non-fans.

208
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Yes.

209
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Oh, hello.

210
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Yeah.

211
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I'm getting little.

212
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Do you sensing that this is already the 4th album and they're just trying to go.

213
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They're just going over the highlights and past successes.

214
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Well, no, because I mean, I think this is different from the previous Christmas specials.

215
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I mean, all of the other previous Christmas specials were set.

216
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What, in earth, like on earth in the present day?

217
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Did I, is that crazy?

218
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No you're right.

219
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Yeah, they're all, and so this is the 1st one in the past.

220
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Yes, exactly.

221
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And so it's the perfect time.

222
00:14:57.059 --> 00:15:03.600
Moffatt's going to get, you know, like in 2 years time when he gets his 1st go at the Christmas special.

223
00:15:03.659 --> 00:15:08.940
He's going to produce something, you know, beyond incredible. love Moffatt's Christmas specials.

224
00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:09.840
I love all of them.

225
00:15:09.899 --> 00:15:10.919
I know that's not a popular.

226
00:15:10.980 --> 00:15:12.720
I love all of them, but I do love the 1st one.

227
00:15:13.379 --> 00:15:17.100
I love them all except for the 1st one and the last one.

228
00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:18.000
Oh my god.

229
00:15:18.059 --> 00:15:20.039
Oh the last one's absolute nonsense.

230
00:15:20.100 --> 00:15:22.500
Is that the one when they all get married to River song again?

231
00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:24.600
No, no, that's good.

232
00:15:24.659 --> 00:15:26.820
I love that one. the one where they all get married to David Bradley.

233
00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:28.559
Yeah, that's shockingly bad.

234
00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:31.860
I'm not going to comment on that.

235
00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:37.440
Because I like them all except for that horrible widow wardrobe.

236
00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:38.100
You don't like that one?

237
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:38.879
I love that one.

238
00:15:38.940 --> 00:15:39.960
That's my favourite.

239
00:15:40.019 --> 00:15:41.639
She's the worst.

240
00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:45.720
Gasp.

241
00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:48.779
But I don't particularly like this one.

242
00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:50.700
I didn't like it very much on the first viewing.

243
00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:53.220
Like, I think it's the weakest of the...

244
00:15:53.220 --> 00:15:54.539
I want some darker humour.

245
00:15:54.600 --> 00:16:00.179
This should be, it looks like a set from Black Garder if they'd had some money, but it's also a bit black books.

246
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:01.620
Oh, hello.

247
00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:04.019
That's pretty good.

248
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:05.700
That's pretty good. door.

249
00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:09.419
And we've got Tams and Greg on set again.

250
00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:10.200
She was very tall.

251
00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:11.460
Did you realise how tall?

252
00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:12.480
as it actually is.

253
00:16:12.539 --> 00:16:14.159
There she is again.

254
00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:18.059
Yeah, I just think the problem is that it doesn't know what it's doing.

255
00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:25.799
I mean, the 1st one is, you know, the Christmas invasion, a big giant invasion with all of the people that we love waiting for the doctor to come and save them.

256
00:16:25.860 --> 00:16:29.820
You know, the 2nd one is Donna, for God's sake, what else do you need?

257
00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:31.919
And the 3rd one is the Titanic.

258
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:32.820
Panic with Kylie.

259
00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:33.419
Yeah, yeah.

260
00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:34.860
And what's this?

261
00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:43.500
I mean, I think that he thinks, or that he must have thought that the David Morrissey thing would be big enough to be the thing.

262
00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:46.139
But there's nothing else around it.

263
00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:55.080
But, but hang on, you mean, you have to have to say that, you know, the last 3 or 4 episodes of the show in series 4 has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger.

264
00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:56.580
And so where do you go from there?

265
00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:58.500
Yeah, no, that is true.

266
00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:04.079
But I don't mean that it's the stakes aren't high because, I mean, in a way they are.

267
00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:06.059
It's just like, what are we doing?

268
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:13.619
Like, what are we supposed to be, you know, feeling or how do we some, you know, like, what's the elevator pitch, you know?

269
00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:17.400
And particularly since this mystery here.

270
00:17:17.940 --> 00:17:19.980
Who are they listening to?

271
00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:20.700
Tragedy.

272
00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:23.099
I can't go on.

273
00:17:23.700 --> 00:17:26.279
Only time we can afford that this episode.

274
00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:30.119
It was a Jason Donovan USB stick.

275
00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:33.480
From a few from ouch.

276
00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:46.980
Look, I think it, I think the other thing that it has going, Fred, apart from Morrissey, um, is um, the villain and we'll talk about her when she comes because I think she's something.

277
00:17:46.980 --> 00:17:50.640
She's a bit telly-scaled Diana Rigg, isn't she?

278
00:17:50.700 --> 00:17:52.500
Well, I think she's great.

279
00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:55.799
Yeah, I think she is, you know, one of the best villains of the year.

280
00:17:55.859 --> 00:17:57.119
Until we get tired, Rick.

281
00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:08.039
The thing is, though, and I was discussing this with someone on Twitter this morning, today, this week, I should say, where they kind of said Diana Rigg was completely wasted in the Crimson Horror.

282
00:18:08.099 --> 00:18:09.119
I'm very sorry.

283
00:18:09.180 --> 00:18:10.619
I greatly respect you.

284
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:12.960
I think I think it might have been Will Maddox.

285
00:18:13.019 --> 00:18:22.680
Um, But I said, Diana Rig. turns up and instead of being glamorous, like she even is in Game of Thrones.

286
00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:28.380
She goes, no, I am going to go completely arching over the top, like I've never performed anything before.

287
00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:31.680
And to me, that is respecting the part to play so against her type.

288
00:18:31.740 --> 00:18:33.900
Well, speaking of arch and over the time.

289
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:40.140
Actually, no, I think this red dress and her whole look is fantastic.

290
00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:43.019
This is Dynasty Colby's, isn't it?

291
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.619
It's even Nancy Reagan Red.

292
00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:48.359
It's Coronation Street, 1851.

293
00:18:48.539 --> 00:18:50.579
Is she Pat Phoenix?

294
00:18:50.819 --> 00:18:58.440
This, I mean, this is very strange in that, of course, it's, you know, being shot, what, in August or something.

295
00:18:58.500 --> 00:19:00.839
And so it's not a very hot day.

296
00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:04.500
I think they've probably done a better job with it than they did with a runaway bride.

297
00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:07.079
Still very bright, isn't it?

298
00:19:07.140 --> 00:19:08.880
It is very bright, though, isn't it?

299
00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:10.140
It is.

300
00:19:10.259 --> 00:19:13.259
Yeah, and the snow is very localised.

301
00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:20.339
She is so great. d'oeuvre curve, I think.

302
00:19:20.460 --> 00:19:20.880
She is great.

303
00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:22.859
She's apparently now in Big Finish.

304
00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:24.660
She's now doing the...

305
00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:27.660
The Miss Partican 4 box set.

306
00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:29.579
Make it a new Miss Quill?

307
00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:30.599
She's a new Miss Quill.

308
00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:32.400
Oh, really?

309
00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:32.880
Yeah, yeah.

310
00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:33.839
Could they get her back?

311
00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:37.740
They got her for the original one, yes, for the 1st lot.

312
00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:40.980
Oh, and they she regenerated into...

313
00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:45.119
And I can kind of hear it in her inflections and tone and that sort of thing.

314
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:46.799
I can see that and choice.

315
00:19:46.859 --> 00:19:47.819
Yeah, very good choice.

316
00:19:47.940 --> 00:19:52.259
It's clear that she's a former prostitute.

317
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:59.279
Uh, well, she she talks about men, men asserting themselves against her in the night.

318
00:20:01.140 --> 00:20:01.980
Which could just mean.

319
00:20:01.980 --> 00:20:07.140
And she calls out the guy who recognises, like, who knows her last name.

320
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:11.460
One of these old men knows her last name. and she calls him a cheeky boy.

321
00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:12.539
I love this.

322
00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:15.180
I loved the Cyberman coming through the snow in this.

323
00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:16.559
That was my one of my favourite things.

324
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:17.940
Yeah, it's 10th planet.

325
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:19.019
I mean that's what Russell's doing.

326
00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:22.019
She is the David Bradley of this episode.

327
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:22.619
Yeah.

328
00:20:22.619 --> 00:20:23.039
Yeah.

329
00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:25.259
That's a great shot.

330
00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:25.740
Look at that.

331
00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:28.019
And I think there is...

332
00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:38.759
Possibly a deliberate choice here that the person who confronts her is the priest because, of course, D'Euveau Kirvin's breakout role was in Ballet Kiss Angel, where she falls in love with the priest.

333
00:20:39.539 --> 00:20:45.240
And she then left that show to do Good Night, Sweetheart, as the original Phoebe.

334
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:56.460
She left that show after one series and was replaced with, if I may say, an actress who was much better for the role and I very much prefer the 2nd Phoebe in that show.

335
00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:58.500
Oh.

336
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:00.420
Now, see, you have to enjoy this.

337
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:05.759
These are people who run workhouses and priests and they all deserve to die.

338
00:21:05.819 --> 00:21:08.819
And so this is a massive triumph.

339
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:10.559
Yeah, and the Tyron would beasts are involved.

340
00:21:10.619 --> 00:21:11.880
They are involved as well.

341
00:21:11.940 --> 00:21:18.660
Mr. Cole and Mr. Scones could be referenced to Doctor Who Author, Stephen Cole, and...

342
00:21:18.660 --> 00:21:23.279
The Historian... an author.

343
00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:23.880
Paul.

344
00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:25.140
I was going to say Paul Scones, yes.

345
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:25.799
Paul Scoon.

346
00:21:25.859 --> 00:21:28.079
But I think there was a visual effects assistant.

347
00:21:28.140 --> 00:21:32.700
But Ian Scones was just a model maker and not I don't mean just, but everyone, you know, everyone liked his work.

348
00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:33.180
Yes.

349
00:21:33.180 --> 00:21:38.099
He built the fabulous, come on, invasion of time.

350
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:40.799
Varden Starship.

351
00:21:40.859 --> 00:21:44.759
Out of an old vacuum cleaner. pretty much like the acting style of this episode.

352
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:48.000
She's so good, isn't she?

353
00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:53.339
And this line, which really drops like a brick, but let's go for it.

354
00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:57.299
The point is they'd all still vote for her.

355
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:02.579
They will give them another 100, what, 30 years?

356
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:04.680
Yeah, just a blink of another.

357
00:22:05.339 --> 00:22:06.299
The sexless here.

358
00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:11.579
Rosita hugs him and he admonishes her very gently, but like, oh, a little decorum, darling.

359
00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:12.900
It's also a very Victorian thing to do.

360
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:14.460
How did she get to know him again?

361
00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:20.640
He saved her again from 2 men who asserted themselves against her in the night.

362
00:22:20.700 --> 00:22:22.559
Oh, no, they were Cybermen though, weren't they?

363
00:22:22.619 --> 00:22:24.119
It was the Cyberman.

364
00:22:24.180 --> 00:22:33.539
I believe she talks about it later, but I could be wrong and I could be conflating that with later when Miss Hartigan says, I don't think he's paid you to talk.

365
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:37.140
Yeah, so that is a very dark line from Russell.

366
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:51.779
But remember when, when she talks, where Miss Hardigan later talks about the cyberman will rise and then she says, so like a man, and it's clearly a reference to, you know, sort of downstairs.

367
00:22:51.839 --> 00:23:03.240
And, and so both of them, both Rosita and, um, Miss Hardican are, like, at least kind of hinted at as being prostitutes, right?

368
00:23:03.299 --> 00:23:20.099
And see, what I think is super interesting and maybe the only properly interesting thing about this episode is that Miss Arctican is an absolute genius who is one of the most powerful minds on the planet who is able to assert herself over the cyber king.

369
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:21.660
All of that.

370
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:37.559
And because she's a woman, there's no way that that brilliance and superbness could ever be recognised or acknowledged, and she lives in this sort of society where she's sort of condemned to cleaning the floor of workhouses or whatever.

371
00:23:37.980 --> 00:23:40.440
And no one sort of comments.

372
00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:45.900
No one says, you're just a woman or you're just a, you know, scullery, wench or whatever.

373
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:48.480
How can you be such a genius?

374
00:23:48.539 --> 00:23:53.640
And I think that's, that's perhaps the only kind of interesting thing happening.

375
00:23:54.779 --> 00:23:56.339
Hmm.

376
00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:02.339
Yeah, I think, yeah, there's some very interesting stuff happening with with Rosita and Mercy.

377
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:04.440
And you're quite right, Nathan.

378
00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:07.859
She just said there that a cyberman. came out of the shadow.

379
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:19.440
So Jackson Lake here is set up exactly the way Christopher Ecclson's doctor met Rose, you know, saving her from a monster, a man made of plastic, a man made of metal.

380
00:24:19.500 --> 00:24:20.039
Yeah, you know?

381
00:24:20.099 --> 00:24:23.579
Do you think she's gone to the Bonnie Langford school of hair?

382
00:24:24.299 --> 00:24:26.220
It's very curly.

383
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:28.140
It's fantastic.

384
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:29.339
Her hair is fantastic.

385
00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:30.240
She just looks amazing.

386
00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:32.759
She is like, she looks stunning.

387
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:36.720
Before we started recording Todd, you said she hasn't done much acting work since.

388
00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:40.319
She's done some things, but it seems to be quite sporadic.

389
00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:43.440
It's a shame because I really like her in this.

390
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:46.619
This is a great moment.

391
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:48.420
It's a balloon, Penelope.

392
00:24:49.140 --> 00:24:53.579
And he's wearing a perchwee style kind of cape thing, too.

393
00:24:53.700 --> 00:24:54.299
Yes.

394
00:24:54.299 --> 00:24:54.779
Keep.

395
00:24:54.779 --> 00:24:55.799
Yes.

396
00:24:55.859 --> 00:24:56.759
No, you're right.

397
00:24:56.819 --> 00:24:58.079
Heartigan.

398
00:24:58.140 --> 00:24:58.980
What's her name?

399
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:00.960
Doran...

400
00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:01.799
Yeah, Hardigan.

401
00:25:01.859 --> 00:25:02.700
Yachenachen.

402
00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:04.559
Yeah, that actress does bring this.

403
00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:05.819
But no, Morrissey, together.

404
00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:08.099
They've got great warmth and they mirror each other.

405
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:09.059
Oh, I know.

406
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:10.140
Very pretty, Jeb.

407
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:15.599
Vala Tubishire, I believe, is the actress playing Rosita.

408
00:25:15.660 --> 00:25:16.619
Yeah.

409
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:18.000
Who's this person?

410
00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:19.859
So this is Jake.

411
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:20.880
Oh, Jeb.

412
00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:22.019
Jed, Jed, you're right.

413
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:22.500
Jed?

414
00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:23.400
Jed or Jed?

415
00:25:23.460 --> 00:25:24.000
J Jed.

416
00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:26.279
Just got to write this down.

417
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:31.319
I've got to do research, you see.

418
00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:32.819
Rospectives and things.

419
00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:33.839
Yeah, that's right.

420
00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:36.660
He's the he's the nardol of this story.

421
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:38.099
Oh, oh.

422
00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:43.920
She's the bill and which makes him the...

423
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:48.480
That reminds me of Ian Chesterton's sort of cloak from Marco Polo.

424
00:25:48.539 --> 00:25:49.079
Yes.

425
00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:51.420
Did Z was built for two?

426
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:56.880
Morrissey brings human warmth to this and it's pretty much the giveaway that it's not the doctor.

427
00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:03.240
Yeah, there's and I've got to admit, much as I'm, you know, probably not a great fan of Tenet.

428
00:26:03.299 --> 00:26:04.559
He does give otherness.

429
00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:06.180
Yeah.

430
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:07.019
Yeah.

431
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:08.940
And he also plays this one with humility.

432
00:26:09.420 --> 00:26:11.759
This is beautiful, wasn't it?

433
00:26:11.819 --> 00:26:19.500
Yeah, he's not lording it over. this other person who he already suspects might not be the doctor, but he's...

434
00:26:19.500 --> 00:26:22.680
No, he knows. because he's listened to his heartbeat in an earlier scene.

435
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:24.420
That's the moment at which he definitely knows.

436
00:26:24.539 --> 00:26:26.279
Yeah, he's so gentle with him.

437
00:26:29.339 --> 00:26:30.420
AirPods.

438
00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:30.960
AirPods.

439
00:26:31.019 --> 00:26:32.160
Oh, sorry.

440
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:32.880
Snap.

441
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:36.900
She is the Jacqueline Pierce of this season, isn't she?

442
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:37.440
Oh, yes.

443
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:38.220
Yeah.

444
00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:40.140
She's so jolly though.

445
00:26:40.259 --> 00:26:44.400
She would have been great if she'd been like a recurring villain for the season.

446
00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:46.440
Oh, look at that smile.

447
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:49.680
She's so good I will come in a rescued woman.

448
00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:51.059
Yes.

449
00:26:51.059 --> 00:26:53.519
I think travel, go for the next story.

450
00:26:53.579 --> 00:26:54.539
Sorry, friend.

451
00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:59.160
I was just gonna say, I will come back to the possibility of her returning later, Todd.

452
00:26:59.220 --> 00:27:02.880
Someone else who they considered...

453
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:12.059
So Russell, sorry, Russell wrote this script in about 6 days, recovering from chickenpox.

454
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:12.480
Yes.

455
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:13.980
Is that what he called it?

456
00:27:13.980 --> 00:27:16.440
And something else.

457
00:27:16.500 --> 00:27:17.700
I do have it written down here.

458
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:20.099
But yeah, he was pretty much really poorly.

459
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:30.720
They had to extend the schedule by a week because this is effectively the 15th episode in the production block because they started with Voyager the Damned and just went straight through.

460
00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:34.319
And, you know, it took a toll.

461
00:27:34.380 --> 00:27:43.079
The they had already planned to do a sort of gap here to let the next producer who ended up being Stephen Moffatt get his stuff together.

462
00:27:43.140 --> 00:27:48.779
But the BBC was so scared of taking it off the air for a year, basically, that they almost overruled Russell.

463
00:27:48.900 --> 00:27:54.720
And there was a new controller at the BBC and they're like, this is our most popular thing.

464
00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:56.400
We don't want to get rid of it.

465
00:27:56.460 --> 00:27:57.660
But yeah, so long ago.

466
00:27:57.720 --> 00:27:58.920
Yeah, Jane, yeah.

467
00:27:58.980 --> 00:28:09.660
Jane Jane Tranter and Julie Gardner basically argued, no, you know, what we're not taking it off the air, we are rationing it.

468
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:15.839
So when the new doctor starts and when Stephen Moffatt starts, they're going to need people hungry for it.

469
00:28:15.900 --> 00:28:19.619
Event television, I feel, really works for Doctor Who.

470
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:21.539
See, I feel the opposite.

471
00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:24.059
Yeah, and I think I said this.

472
00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:30.900
I think I probably said this in the retrospective, because Doctor Who is a different thing each week, and so...

473
00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:33.180
That's why I think it has a polarity.

474
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:35.220
And you can reverse that.

475
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:36.839
But if you so choose.

476
00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:37.680
But it does.

477
00:28:37.740 --> 00:28:41.339
It's a new, it's a new heavenly sphere every time it appears.

478
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:42.480
I agree with you on that.

479
00:28:42.539 --> 00:28:45.359
The freshness of it, but I think that can be spaced out just as well.

480
00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:47.039
I don't need to see it every week to be excited.

481
00:28:47.099 --> 00:28:51.900
Yeah, I just, I guess I like the sort of change from week to week.

482
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:54.059
You know, you don't know where you're going to go next week.

483
00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:56.099
I guess you can kind of spread that out.

484
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:00.599
But I think in practice what we discover from 2009.

485
00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:08.940
And maybe it's just the series of events around 2009 that caused this, that it isn't that successful.

486
00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:12.000
I absolutely adore this because this is the 1st time.

487
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:19.140
Here we go. in Russell's Who, where all of the old doctors are directly referenced.

488
00:29:19.140 --> 00:29:19.500
Cannon.

489
00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:20.279
Cannon.

490
00:29:20.339 --> 00:29:21.900
Yep Paul is Canon.

491
00:29:22.259 --> 00:29:25.259
He nearly wasn't in queer as folk, remember?

492
00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:34.799
Now, if only they put that cutaway of Jackson Lake in between Paul McGann and Christopher Eccleston, we could have an explanation as to why we don't see John Hurt.

493
00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:41.400
He wasn't invented yet.

494
00:29:41.460 --> 00:29:42.720
No, no.

495
00:29:42.779 --> 00:29:43.559
Time war.

496
00:29:43.619 --> 00:29:47.400
No, he was still, wasn't he still a CG dragon in Merlin?

497
00:29:47.460 --> 00:29:49.440
Was that happening yet?

498
00:29:49.500 --> 00:29:49.859
Yes.

499
00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:51.119
It was?

500
00:29:52.259 --> 00:30:01.440
See, this is like, um, what's the, uh, what's the bond title sequence where they're um, projecting films onto the bodies of naked ladies?

501
00:30:01.500 --> 00:30:02.339
That's probably right.

502
00:30:02.339 --> 00:30:03.359
Yeah, with a golden wank.

503
00:30:03.420 --> 00:30:04.079
Yes.

504
00:30:04.140 --> 00:30:05.880
Yeah, because that's happening here, isn't it?

505
00:30:05.940 --> 00:30:07.680
Oh, the Morris Binder.

506
00:30:07.740 --> 00:30:10.500
And actually wasn't Bindu who came up with that. was that other bloke.

507
00:30:11.579 --> 00:30:14.759
Oh, and that's a lovely bit of teleacting there.

508
00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:15.720
Yeah.

509
00:30:16.019 --> 00:30:21.119
And yeah, I again, I just love how gentle the doctor is here.

510
00:30:21.180 --> 00:30:25.319
He's like, yes, you're not who you think you are, but you have all your achievements are still yours.

511
00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:29.279
He's still smart enough to know that there's something coming, doesn't he?

512
00:30:29.339 --> 00:30:37.920
And I love how the doctor solves her because a lot of the earlier stuff was about the void and all sorts of science fiction, you know, claptrap.

513
00:30:37.980 --> 00:30:41.099
And here it's just, you have too much luggage for one man.

514
00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:42.420
I'm sorry.

515
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:43.559
It's lovely.

516
00:30:44.220 --> 00:30:46.619
Yeah, isn't that so good?

517
00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:58.740
Well, as I said in retrospective, David Tennant is terribly underrated at times and I have actually enjoyed him, very much in the moment, despite ticks and clicks that we talk about.

518
00:30:59.099 --> 00:31:01.200
I find him very watchable.

519
00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:13.380
I do wonder if it's because usually the companion, especially Catherine Tate, is given the duty of being compassionate and the listener. while David Tennant is allowed to gnash his teeth at things.

520
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:17.819
So you take away the companion and Tenant has to do that and he does it brilliantly.

521
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:18.720
Very nicely.

522
00:31:18.779 --> 00:31:25.799
Well, normally those, you know, sad, soulful eyebrows are reserved, but sort of are reserved for his own man pain.

523
00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:32.519
Or the women he's about to disappoint. on so many levels.

524
00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:34.740
And in the show.

525
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:38.400
Oh here we go.

526
00:31:38.460 --> 00:31:41.339
I think Maurice is doing a wonderful job Yeah.

527
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:44.099
I love fear in this whole sequence.

528
00:31:44.220 --> 00:31:48.900
You know, the fake doctor thing is fun, but this is this is properly good, I think.

529
00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:55.440
And, you know, he Doctor Who does therapy, sorry.

530
00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:58.140
That doesn't happen very often, though.

531
00:31:58.200 --> 00:32:00.960
He is a smaller version of the doctor.

532
00:32:01.019 --> 00:32:03.420
You know, he has saved his companion from a monster.

533
00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:07.319
The doctor lost Gallifrey and the Time Lords Jackson has lost his wife.

534
00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:16.140
Jackson is heroic, even though he doesn't really have a sonic screwdriver or gadgets or a property.

535
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:17.099
Sonic.

536
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:18.000
But you know what I mean?

537
00:32:18.059 --> 00:32:20.460
He's heroic without all those things.

538
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:25.259
There's no payoff to that, though, is there?

539
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:26.460
And that's a problem.

540
00:32:26.519 --> 00:32:27.960
It's coming. coming.

541
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:36.660
Because, because, you know, I know a lot has been said about the timeless children, but...

542
00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:38.279
Can we not talk about that?

543
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:52.920
It has a similar element to this in that being the doctor is less about, you know, having 2 hearts and being from the planet, Gallifrey, and the constellation of Custurbus and it's more about being heroic and compassionate and kind.

544
00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:56.700
Well, I mean, that's the that's the RTD era, though.

545
00:32:56.759 --> 00:33:02.819
He's constantly inspiring people to do that Everyone talked about how Eccleston doesn't solve the problem.

546
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:06.720
He just inspires someone else to solve the problem as if that's a bad thing.

547
00:33:07.619 --> 00:33:15.839
Also extremists, you know, where you can be, where you can be the doctor even if you're really just sort of Mario.

548
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:18.000
I love extremes.

549
00:33:18.839 --> 00:33:21.240
So do I. Yeah, it's good.

550
00:33:21.299 --> 00:33:38.279
Before we started, before we started recording, I was rather surprised, your listener, I believe my fellow podcasters in this room really don't think highly of this story, and I'm curious to know from each of you what you think is, what's the central floor?

551
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:40.859
Todd.

552
00:33:42.059 --> 00:33:44.220
Maybe it's the stakes.

553
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:44.819
I don't know.

554
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:46.740
I think after the end of last season.

555
00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:57.599
I can't answer that until again, but I just feel like What's happening?

556
00:33:57.660 --> 00:34:01.200
Like we're having a lot of little stuff, but, but I'm, I don't know.

557
00:34:01.259 --> 00:34:03.539
Is it the how it builds?

558
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:04.380
I'm not sure.

559
00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:07.680
Like, it feels like an operetta without the songs.

560
00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:10.860
Definitely there's a bit of G and S in this.

561
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:11.579
Yeah.

562
00:34:11.579 --> 00:34:14.820
Even like this with the little kids being marched into a thing.

563
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:15.840
Even the way they're moving about.

564
00:34:15.900 --> 00:34:18.239
Brendan, I don't think it's necessarily awful.

565
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:21.900
Like, I just not in love with it. fair enough.

566
00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:27.000
Yeah, I just think, as I've said, I don't think it has a central thing that it's about.

567
00:34:28.019 --> 00:34:34.679
And I think that, you know, we're halfway through and we've ditched the Jackson Lake thing completely.

568
00:34:34.739 --> 00:34:37.500
And so, you know, what are we doing now?

569
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:39.059
Here are all the timeless children.

570
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:42.780
They're all the doctor all the time.

571
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:48.780
I'm warming to the cyber shades, though, I'm just saying.

572
00:34:48.780 --> 00:34:53.039
I thought you had a theory that every showrunner has one crap cyberman thing.

573
00:34:53.099 --> 00:34:53.699
Yeah, yeah.

574
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:55.739
So that it's the cyber shades here.

575
00:34:56.219 --> 00:34:57.900
And the dad.

576
00:34:57.900 --> 00:35:00.119
And the cyber dad, I guess.

577
00:35:00.179 --> 00:35:03.360
Although I actually will forgive the cyber dad when it comes.

578
00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:06.239
I think what's Moffat's one?

579
00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:07.739
Oh, it's cyber brig, isn't it?

580
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:09.480
Well, that's what I called it, the cyber deck.

581
00:35:09.539 --> 00:35:12.480
Oh, I thought you meant James Corden.

582
00:35:12.539 --> 00:35:15.179
Well, that's almost forgivable as well.

583
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:17.760
And he invents the cyber mites as well, remember?

584
00:35:17.820 --> 00:35:18.539
Oh.

585
00:35:18.539 --> 00:35:20.400
I love all those things.

586
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:24.599
Brendan and I are on the same page on so many things, right?

587
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:26.519
Not that.

588
00:35:26.579 --> 00:35:30.360
I like the cybermites and I like the cyber James Corden.

589
00:35:30.420 --> 00:35:34.320
I wonder if it's that Doctor Who at Christmas is not Doctor Who.

590
00:35:34.380 --> 00:35:35.639
It's a different show.

591
00:35:35.699 --> 00:35:38.340
Well, you know, the cyber James Corder.

592
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:40.920
The fact that he sells everything by love or whatever.

593
00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:51.420
That's awesome But here, she overpowers the Cyberman by her by just being her being brilliant. by being superb.

594
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:54.179
So being an impressive person. there is a precedent for it.

595
00:35:54.300 --> 00:35:54.840
Yeah.

596
00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:55.980
I'm warming to the idea.

597
00:35:57.780 --> 00:35:59.159
Yeah.

598
00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:02.699
I do I do love that she hasn't been converted.

599
00:36:02.820 --> 00:36:03.960
She is choosing this.

600
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:06.000
Yeah, liberation.

601
00:36:06.059 --> 00:36:08.519
But see, there's also the thing.

602
00:36:08.579 --> 00:36:11.280
And I don't quite know how to...

603
00:36:11.340 --> 00:36:11.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

604
00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:12.360
Yeah, yeah.

605
00:36:12.420 --> 00:36:13.619
I don't think you paid you to talk.

606
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:19.500
I don't know how to feel about it because the idea is that she's full of rage and revenge and abuse and stuff.

607
00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:23.639
There's that line that the doctor, you know, characterises her.

608
00:36:23.699 --> 00:36:25.619
And so that's why she's evil.

609
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:33.900
Um, you know, as a result of kind of patriarchy and and the class system and Victorian values, essentially.

610
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:37.619
But that turns her evil and she's sort of a villain.

611
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:40.500
And like, why aren't we on her side?

612
00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:41.039
You know?

613
00:36:41.099 --> 00:36:43.019
Well, I think some of us are.

614
00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:47.219
I think possibly the answer to that.

615
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:50.280
And I agree. it's not fully developed Oh, an evil flesh.

616
00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:57.539
Yeah, I think possibly the answer to that is that she and Rosita have pretty much had the same experience.

617
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:07.260
As you say, they're both implied to be ladies of the night, and they have both been oppressed by men because it is this society.

618
00:37:08.219 --> 00:37:12.360
Rosita sides with the hero and she sides with the villain.

619
00:37:12.420 --> 00:37:16.920
They're 2 sides of what can happen.

620
00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:21.840
And I think possibly the reason it doesn't work is Rosita is given so little to do.

621
00:37:22.019 --> 00:37:26.460
Because the doctor and Jackson Lake are the centre of the plot.

622
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:30.360
I love glad to have been part of your very last conversation.

623
00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:33.420
What were you going to say, Tom?

624
00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:35.039
No, I can't remember.

625
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:41.219
So this is the heroic thing where he comes back.

626
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:42.300
He's got a headache.

627
00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:43.019
Part of it, certainly.

628
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:47.280
It's a great hero shot, isn't it?

629
00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:49.500
With the smoke clearing.

630
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:50.940
CBS 1996.

631
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:54.960
Yes.

632
00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:55.199
Yes.

633
00:37:55.260 --> 00:37:55.920
Oh well done.

634
00:37:57.420 --> 00:38:00.059
Can I say I completely disapprove?

635
00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:17.039
I stole that line when I was the doctor for Planet Scara Audio's and I changed it to, basically, we had a Boris Johnson style Prime Minister in 2011 when we made these and my assistant punches him in the face and I say, normally I would completely disapprove, but in his case, I shall make an exception.

636
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:28.199
He does look smart in Jan Chapel's belt.

637
00:38:29.940 --> 00:38:31.739
Lanyard.

638
00:38:32.699 --> 00:38:43.619
Someone posted on Twitter this week that Trevor Hoyle actually explains what the Time Squad were in his novelisation of Blake 7 and the Time Squad.

639
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:45.000
Oh, there's a relief.

640
00:38:45.059 --> 00:38:45.539
Yes.

641
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:52.619
They were always called the finders fiends because they, they were like, frozen fishing.

642
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:56.579
They weren't fit, were they?

643
00:39:01.019 --> 00:39:03.420
Oh, the little fascinators, not really.

644
00:39:03.539 --> 00:39:04.800
Are you looking at my cerebellum?

645
00:39:04.860 --> 00:39:05.699
The ascension.

646
00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:07.920
So it's Ascension of the Cyberman.

647
00:39:08.219 --> 00:39:12.360
Mr. Milligan, he looks like Spike Milligan.

648
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:13.980
Sorry.

649
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:24.119
So the brain, I think Russell has said before that he has a very strong childhood memory of Tomb of the Cyberman and the cyber dude's brain.

650
00:39:24.179 --> 00:39:26.340
What sort of cyber thing was he?

651
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:27.900
He wasn't a cyber controller.

652
00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:28.380
What was he?

653
00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:30.119
He was a cyber controller.

654
00:39:30.179 --> 00:39:31.500
He was the cybercontroller.

655
00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:32.760
Yes, the big Chrome dome.

656
00:39:32.820 --> 00:39:33.599
Yeah, yeah.

657
00:39:33.659 --> 00:39:38.880
Because, you know, he thought it was the brain because it has those veins crawling up the inside of it or whatever.

658
00:39:38.940 --> 00:39:45.599
And so that's why the brain is visible there and it's got little kind of, you know, things.

659
00:39:45.659 --> 00:39:48.659
That is that child is 40.

660
00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:52.440
The other scale doesn't...

661
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:54.239
Well, it's worked wonders.

662
00:39:54.300 --> 00:39:57.420
It really does need songs, doesn't it?

663
00:39:57.480 --> 00:39:58.139
It does.

664
00:39:58.199 --> 00:39:59.219
But what is this for?

665
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:00.780
Like, I don't know what's happening here.

666
00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:03.119
These children are being oppressed, but what are we saying?

667
00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:07.980
That's the source from the doctor's daughter, that globe that went along.

668
00:40:08.820 --> 00:40:11.159
Like we're saying is it's Christmas.

669
00:40:11.219 --> 00:40:12.840
So we need suffering orphans.

670
00:40:12.900 --> 00:40:14.280
Yeah, well, maybe that's it.

671
00:40:14.340 --> 00:40:15.059
Maybe that's it.

672
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:17.880
But wouldn't be Christmas without children in need.

673
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:29.699
But don't you think there's a version of this that's not too far away where these children exist to fuel something, you know, it's called a cyber king?

674
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:33.960
It has factory chimneys coming off the back of it.

675
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:39.480
We get a reference to the sort of 2nd industrial revolution from Miss Hardigan.

676
00:40:39.539 --> 00:40:48.179
You know, like it's so close to saying something about sort of class or empire or colonialism and it just doesn't do it.

677
00:40:48.239 --> 00:40:50.340
Look, it's Chibnalls Dalek emperor.

678
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:52.920
That's it.

679
00:40:52.980 --> 00:40:54.420
It's like Der...

680
00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:56.219
Sure it is.

681
00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:56.639
You watch.

682
00:40:56.699 --> 00:41:00.420
I think I think the script needed another week in that regard.

683
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:04.739
It was, it was Russell going, and I'm go, and I'm going to have, like, um...

684
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:08.460
I'm going to have children in workhouses.

685
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:09.539
What are they for, Russell?

686
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:11.219
To have children in workhouses.

687
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:12.840
The Victorian era.

688
00:41:12.900 --> 00:41:14.159
You need to finish it a week earlier.

689
00:41:14.219 --> 00:41:15.300
Walk away.

690
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:16.679
Come back.

691
00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:17.519
Yeah, and do another.

692
00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:19.679
Because it nearly is things.

693
00:41:19.739 --> 00:41:24.539
Like it seems to hint at something about, you know, the Victorian era.

694
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:29.280
Does Mickey theorise that there's a cyber king in doomsday or something like that?

695
00:41:29.340 --> 00:41:31.199
Yes, he mentioned the word.

696
00:41:31.260 --> 00:41:32.400
Yeah, yeah.

697
00:41:35.460 --> 00:41:37.860
That was designated a lot.

698
00:41:37.860 --> 00:41:39.059
That is a great line.

699
00:41:40.019 --> 00:41:43.980
Promises to aliens have no validity.

700
00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:50.639
That's not quite posh enough. getting a bit rough, is it?

701
00:41:52.019 --> 00:41:54.539
It's still Nick Briggs, isn't it?

702
00:41:54.539 --> 00:41:55.739
Doing all the voice.

703
00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:58.320
Well, who's playing Cyberleader for this one?

704
00:41:58.380 --> 00:42:01.380
I suspect it is...

705
00:42:01.380 --> 00:42:01.980
Paul Casey.

706
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:02.760
Paul Casey.

707
00:42:02.820 --> 00:42:04.079
He's usually the lead.

708
00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:05.460
Is he doing the vodcha?

709
00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:07.199
No, it's Briggs doing the vot, isn't it?

710
00:42:07.260 --> 00:42:08.340
Yeah, always.

711
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:08.639
Yeah.

712
00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:12.059
I like how this is designed for her hair.

713
00:42:13.260 --> 00:42:21.179
And again, I love the sort of cyberpunkness to it, like as if they've constructed it out of stuff that they have available.

714
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:26.699
So it's a sort of beautiful brass, you know, cyberpunk excitement thing.

715
00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:29.639
And now she's Queen Amadala.

716
00:42:30.659 --> 00:42:32.760
Queen Amygdala?

717
00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:37.199
She might just be clever enough to have bypassed, I hope so.

718
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:41.340
Ooh, those look painful to wear.

719
00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:42.599
Or do you think they're CGI?

720
00:42:42.659 --> 00:42:44.639
No, they are contact lenses.

721
00:42:44.699 --> 00:42:45.659
Yuck.

722
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:48.239
Yeah, just like Daphne.

723
00:42:48.300 --> 00:42:50.400
That's the same shot of that globe going.

724
00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:52.260
Just like Daphne Ashbrook had to wear.

725
00:42:52.500 --> 00:42:55.139
Oh, yeah, that's horrible.

726
00:42:56.400 --> 00:43:00.719
And Marine the Surtees in a few scenes of things.

727
00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:01.500
Ooh.

728
00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:03.480
In conundrum.

729
00:43:03.539 --> 00:43:04.619
Oh, that looks a bit fake.

730
00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:07.260
It looks a bit Capaldi opening titles, doesn't it?

731
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:08.699
No, it looks like a candy kitchen.

732
00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:09.360
It does.

733
00:43:09.420 --> 00:43:10.800
All about your talking.

734
00:43:10.860 --> 00:43:12.659
Where are the bees in the therament?

735
00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:16.380
Yeah.

736
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:21.599
Yeah, like it should look like that because it should be a sort of fairy tale thing.

737
00:43:21.659 --> 00:43:24.960
You know, like it's Christmas and it's orphans and stuff.

738
00:43:25.019 --> 00:43:26.760
So it's supposed to look like that.

739
00:43:26.820 --> 00:43:27.539
I like that.

740
00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:29.099
But I just, what's it for?

741
00:43:30.059 --> 00:43:31.860
What's it for?

742
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:34.920
Yeah, no, I'm being Tom in Pirate Planet.

743
00:43:34.980 --> 00:43:36.000
What's it for?

744
00:43:36.420 --> 00:43:42.780
Yes, and all coming soon, Mary Tam in the pirate planet sort of action figure.

745
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:51.119
Do your top up, Mary. 20th of July, apparently now, Richard.

746
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:52.139
Oh, to be out by now.

747
00:43:52.260 --> 00:43:53.940
Yes, yes.

748
00:43:58.860 --> 00:44:02.460
Yeah, see, she's not having any of that Sidemen crap.

749
00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:03.719
Not your naunch.

750
00:44:03.780 --> 00:44:05.340
I miss Hardigan.

751
00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:07.320
No Cyberman pain.

752
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:13.860
Yeah, she's stronger than the conditioning like James Corden is later on.

753
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:17.760
Yeah, but she's it's because she's brilliant.

754
00:44:17.820 --> 00:44:24.239
You know, she's been sidelined by this society, but she's better than anyone else in it.

755
00:44:24.300 --> 00:44:27.599
But it's only hint of that, do you know?

756
00:44:28.739 --> 00:44:36.840
She's so good See, in a way, I wish that the cyber king and her escape through the vortex to come back in a sequel. yeah.

757
00:44:36.900 --> 00:44:38.940
They could have been in the girl who waited.

758
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:39.780
Zap.

759
00:44:40.019 --> 00:44:43.079
They could have been in last season's finale.

760
00:44:43.139 --> 00:44:45.360
Wow, that would have been awesome.

761
00:44:45.420 --> 00:44:47.699
Well, yes, it would have been awesome.

762
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:50.699
Except that this story never happened.

763
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:55.980
We actually find out in um series 5.

764
00:44:56.159 --> 00:45:01.380
We find out in series 5 that the cracks in time, wipe this story out because there's a really interesting thing here.

765
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:07.440
When the doctor arrives in 1851, he says, oh, this is very dull and nothing ever happens.

766
00:45:07.980 --> 00:45:13.679
And then Jackson Lake at the end will say this is something that will be talked about for centuries.

767
00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:15.599
So the doctor goes, oh, funny that.

768
00:45:15.659 --> 00:45:17.219
And then it's never followed up.

769
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:20.039
Matt Smith does mention it.

770
00:45:20.099 --> 00:45:22.500
It's never followed up by Russell Oh, I bet.

771
00:45:22.500 --> 00:45:26.699
And then and then Moffat comes in and makes it clear that's what happened.

772
00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:31.139
That's why the cyberkink's not ever remembered because this whole story gets swallowed up by the cracks.

773
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:33.059
The elderly children are rescue.

774
00:45:33.659 --> 00:45:38.099
Now, we have coming up the worst performance in the episode.

775
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:42.059
Oh, that Gormless child actor standing at the top who needs to be rescued.

776
00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:42.840
God.

777
00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:45.360
He is wearing so much.

778
00:45:45.420 --> 00:45:46.739
I mean, I don't want to shame him.

779
00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:47.579
Do you know what I mean?

780
00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:49.739
But he's wearing a lot of mascara.

781
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:53.760
Yeah, and, you know, the implication is that he's not like these poor children.

782
00:45:53.820 --> 00:45:58.619
He's a rich child who has been caught up in the workhouse, but it's just too he's too polished.

783
00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:02.760
I'm getting ahead of myself because I thought we might actually cut to him, but no.

784
00:46:02.820 --> 00:46:03.780
No not yet.

785
00:46:04.139 --> 00:46:09.900
You know, look, I love the fact that they commit to the cyber shades, despite the fact they look a bit rubbish.

786
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:11.099
Oh, me too.

787
00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:11.880
No, no.

788
00:46:11.940 --> 00:46:15.179
And I am absolutely on board with the one that drives the hansom cab.

789
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:16.260
I think that's a bird.

790
00:46:16.380 --> 00:46:17.820
Yeah, why not?

791
00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:24.719
Yeah, I just wish they'd been more shade-like and ethereal. rather than just gorilla suits.

792
00:46:24.780 --> 00:46:25.260
Yeah.

793
00:46:25.260 --> 00:46:27.719
I mean, yeah, look, let that one.

794
00:46:27.780 --> 00:46:28.860
Howard that one's 40.

795
00:46:32.099 --> 00:46:34.559
They're ill- favoured poor children, aren't they?

796
00:46:34.619 --> 00:46:35.579
That's a hobbit.

797
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:38.579
Okay, that's a few hobbit.

798
00:46:40.139 --> 00:46:42.059
Oh, dear.

799
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:45.360
Some great flashback acting there from Morrissey.

800
00:46:47.159 --> 00:46:49.199
It's these children.

801
00:46:49.260 --> 00:46:50.099
They ruin the episode.

802
00:46:51.659 --> 00:46:53.340
Oh, wait.

803
00:46:53.400 --> 00:46:54.119
Wait.

804
00:46:54.179 --> 00:46:55.079
There we go.

805
00:46:55.139 --> 00:46:56.760
So that's some acting from the kid?

806
00:46:56.820 --> 00:46:57.840
Yeah, I know.

807
00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:00.420
That shot of Morrissey where he looks up puzzledly.

808
00:47:00.420 --> 00:47:02.219
Oh, God.

809
00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:04.320
My God, the child is terrible.

810
00:47:04.380 --> 00:47:06.360
No, the chance okay in the flash bag.

811
00:47:06.420 --> 00:47:07.440
Yeah, Charm is terrible.

812
00:47:07.500 --> 00:47:08.579
But look at it.

813
00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:11.039
Look how much mascara he's got on.

814
00:47:11.099 --> 00:47:14.579
Like, why he has no emotion upon seeing his father.

815
00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:16.739
Well, he's traumatised.

816
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:18.719
Oh, but God, just push.

817
00:47:19.139 --> 00:47:22.019
None of the other children are traumatised.

818
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:22.500
They all run.

819
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.980
I suppose they're all pre-traumatized from being workhouse. they're poor people.

820
00:47:26.039 --> 00:47:27.539
It was okay for them to be put to work.

821
00:47:28.500 --> 00:47:31.199
But, yeah.

822
00:47:31.260 --> 00:47:31.800
Anyway.

823
00:47:31.860 --> 00:47:32.760
Oh, here we go.

824
00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:48.539
Now, when I was watching this at the time, something I had said to my boyfriend of the time in the week before, you know what, Doctor Who's never done, Transformers.

825
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:51.000
You got your wish.

826
00:47:51.059 --> 00:47:51.719
I did.

827
00:47:51.780 --> 00:47:54.239
So why does Jackson Lake?

828
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:56.159
If he's the doctor.

829
00:47:56.280 --> 00:48:00.239
If we want to show him being heroic, why does he not get to do this?

830
00:48:00.300 --> 00:48:01.320
Yeah, no, I agree.

831
00:48:01.380 --> 00:48:01.800
I agree.

832
00:48:01.860 --> 00:48:02.639
It's just a mistake.

833
00:48:02.699 --> 00:48:03.360
I think.

834
00:48:03.360 --> 00:48:04.440
Tenant's the star.

835
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:07.139
But Tenant gets to...

836
00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:12.179
So, but Tennant gets to wipe out the cyber king and save Fred.

837
00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:17.460
And I think that David Morrisey's doctor has to do one of those.

838
00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:24.059
Like he just has to do one of those, but all he does is sort of stand there looking up into the sky weeping.

839
00:48:24.059 --> 00:48:29.940
And then later on he does a sort of fair amount of kind of talking and looking up into the sky weeping again.

840
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:32.880
You know, like he doesn't get his proper hero moment.

841
00:48:32.940 --> 00:48:40.019
And I don't think him running in with a bandoleer full of, you know, USB sticks really kind of cuts it.

842
00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:43.019
Would have been great, don't you think?

843
00:48:43.079 --> 00:48:44.519
No, I totally agree.

844
00:48:44.579 --> 00:48:45.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah. totally agree with you.

845
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:51.659
Yeah, and the thing is, just, you know, just swap the 2 swap the 2 roles in that scene.

846
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:52.320
It's simple.

847
00:48:52.380 --> 00:49:00.420
Or or get him to be clever enough to have learnt enough to save, you know, to defeat the cyber king.

848
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:10.739
Now, as the cyber king was rising there, we had a poster of Lee Sen Chang in the corner, there it is. despite the fact that this is almost 50 years before the talent of Wang Chang.

849
00:49:11.159 --> 00:49:13.920
He was a char prodigy.

850
00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:17.159
That is so great.

851
00:49:17.219 --> 00:49:18.360
It's fantastic.

852
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:21.840
Todd, you like the cyber king, the look of the cyber king or not?

853
00:49:21.900 --> 00:49:23.219
I like the look of it.

854
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:24.599
I don't understand why it is.

855
00:49:24.659 --> 00:49:25.440
Yeah, yeah.

856
00:49:25.500 --> 00:49:26.099
That's fair enough.

857
00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:29.880
Like, I mean, if I'm invaded planets, aren't you wasting resources building something like that?

858
00:49:29.940 --> 00:49:32.039
Wouldn't you be that it looks cool?

859
00:49:32.099 --> 00:49:32.760
It does.

860
00:49:32.820 --> 00:49:40.019
And it's something that you've brought up time and time again, this past series that, you know, Russell likes to do things that are fun, right?

861
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:44.940
And sometimes I forget about the fun over, over...

862
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:47.940
Oh, does it make complete sense, but it doesn't.

863
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:51.719
It doesn't, but it's... yeah, it's fun. is fun.

864
00:49:51.780 --> 00:50:12.000
And I'm surprised, you know, like I wondered, and I think maybe at the time I wondered whether the fact that this is, you know, like a great sort of history breaking event, you know, how come none of us know that a giant thing, you know, like that this happened in 1851 on Christmas morning.

865
00:50:12.059 --> 00:50:19.380
Um, like that that was going to feed into all of these sort of time Lord Victoria shenanigans that ended up happening, but it just gets dropped.

866
00:50:19.500 --> 00:50:21.780
I'm glad that Moffatt picks it up.

867
00:50:21.900 --> 00:50:26.400
It's one of my bits of evidence that Moffatt loves RTDs, Doctor Who.

868
00:50:26.460 --> 00:50:28.320
Oh yes, yes, absolutely.

869
00:50:31.380 --> 00:50:34.739
And yeah, yeah, the doctor runs off into Danger here because he's got nothing to live for.

870
00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:37.139
Yeah, he's escaped to danger.

871
00:50:37.380 --> 00:50:47.039
I remember at the time with that being annoyed that Moffat was being, you know, putting his imprimada over the entire history of Doctor Who, but considering what we've seen in the last 2 years.

872
00:50:47.099 --> 00:50:49.019
I think I got off lightly.

873
00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:50.460
Yeah, that's right.

874
00:50:50.519 --> 00:50:52.079
That's very true.

875
00:50:52.139 --> 00:50:59.159
Look, I actually like it because I think it is picking up a plot thread that was deliberately kind of, you know, that annoyed people like us.

876
00:50:59.219 --> 00:51:03.420
No, no, but I think that Moffatt that Russell might have followed up.

877
00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:07.199
You know, because he deliberately kind of comments on it.

878
00:51:07.260 --> 00:51:08.280
He sticks it out. there.

879
00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:10.679
It's not something that Moffatt thought of.

880
00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:12.719
He does recommend.

881
00:51:12.780 --> 00:51:17.280
I can see Freddie Mercury playing this part. the same rostrum.

882
00:51:17.340 --> 00:51:25.440
Don't you think it reminds you of the end of time where you've got wrestling and you've got the 2 women either side and the other other tunnels?

883
00:51:25.500 --> 00:51:26.519
Yeah, but I like this.

884
00:51:26.820 --> 00:51:28.500
That's very true.

885
00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:30.119
This should have been a musical.

886
00:51:30.179 --> 00:51:33.780
I think that's why I think this is why it's annoying us because this is prog rock.

887
00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:38.460
Really, this is a 70s album coming in this whole thing.

888
00:51:38.519 --> 00:51:42.900
Jeff Wayne would have done it and opens up into a bifold and you've paid far too much for it, but it's great.

889
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:44.519
No, no, it needs songs.

890
00:51:44.579 --> 00:51:45.239
I want songs.

891
00:51:45.420 --> 00:51:50.519
Yeah, well, look, Russell talked about doing a musical all the time, and I agree with you, Richard.

892
00:51:50.579 --> 00:51:54.360
This would have been perfect because we have all these heightened people's ultra-saturated.

893
00:51:54.420 --> 00:51:55.139
That's the category.

894
00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:55.679
Thank you.

895
00:51:55.739 --> 00:51:56.699
Thank you, Netflix.

896
00:51:56.760 --> 00:51:58.500
Oh, no, she turns, she turns.

897
00:51:58.559 --> 00:52:00.360
She's not liking something on the screen.

898
00:52:00.420 --> 00:52:02.219
Oh, it's that child.

899
00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:09.420
Yeah, look, I so very love the cyberkick.

900
00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:10.800
It's utterly impractical.

901
00:52:13.860 --> 00:52:14.820
Oh, it's brilliant.

902
00:52:14.940 --> 00:52:16.800
Does it make tea?

903
00:52:16.860 --> 00:52:19.440
It does look like it might make tea.

904
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:22.199
Revel's tea tea's made.

905
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:28.559
I think the cat's going to unplug the mixing board.

906
00:52:28.980 --> 00:52:30.840
I think we're okay.

907
00:52:31.739 --> 00:52:37.079
And look, see, he gets to see the Tartars fly, but he should be flying at them.

908
00:52:37.139 --> 00:52:48.179
It's a shame because all a tenant does is do his usual, I'll give you one chance and then sort of fires a whole heap of kind of special effects at her until everyone goes away.

909
00:52:48.239 --> 00:52:50.940
You know, it's not a great resolution.

910
00:52:52.500 --> 00:52:55.800
I can see why RTD chose to do it this way.

911
00:52:55.860 --> 00:52:57.719
He wants David's going.

912
00:52:57.780 --> 00:52:59.639
He wants to make let him be the star.

913
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:02.039
Yeah, it's like it's like Planet of the Spiders.

914
00:53:02.099 --> 00:53:03.119
Yeah, yeah.

915
00:53:03.179 --> 00:53:04.320
Well, I guess so.

916
00:53:04.380 --> 00:53:06.659
There's no flying car, damn it.

917
00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:09.360
I want the flying car, back.

918
00:53:09.420 --> 00:53:10.079
Wouldn't that be great?

919
00:53:10.139 --> 00:53:13.199
Chippers off, we give you everything if you bring back.

920
00:53:13.619 --> 00:53:16.619
I'm sure hair trembles with emotion.

921
00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:19.139
Yeah, that's a meme.

922
00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:22.019
Well, that shot wasn't great in the upscale.

923
00:53:22.380 --> 00:53:25.860
I reckon the thing looks surprisingly good in the upscale.

924
00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:26.519
No, no, no.

925
00:53:26.579 --> 00:53:28.380
It was the balloon basket.

926
00:53:28.380 --> 00:53:29.099
Yeah.

927
00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:33.659
Oh yeah, like the, yeah, tenant hanging in the balloon against black drapes is not good.

928
00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:38.400
It's, it's very Trouton.

929
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:44.159
Yeah, see, this, this, give me some politics, Russell.

930
00:53:44.219 --> 00:53:44.760
Yeah.

931
00:53:44.820 --> 00:53:54.179
See, this is the scene where Russell watching at home at Christmas, as he was watching this, said, I made a mistake with the ending.

932
00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:56.280
So what does he say should happen?

933
00:53:56.340 --> 00:54:02.099
What he says should happen is, and look, I'm pressaging it because I forget how long this chat goes on for.

934
00:54:02.340 --> 00:54:12.300
So he's about to set Miss Hartigan free, at which point she screams at the sidemen and they blow up and the thing starts falling over and the doctor has to zap it into the vortex.

935
00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:21.840
And the thing is Russell watching it at home went, no, he should have set her free and then she sends it into the vortex.

936
00:54:21.900 --> 00:54:23.159
She saves London.

937
00:54:23.219 --> 00:54:24.360
Yes.

938
00:54:24.420 --> 00:54:27.000
That was what Russell thought was wrong.

939
00:54:27.059 --> 00:54:29.400
And that way, you know, she gets redemption.

940
00:54:29.460 --> 00:54:31.260
Yeah, I'd have liked redemption.

941
00:54:31.320 --> 00:54:31.800
Yeah.

942
00:54:31.860 --> 00:54:34.920
Because she just explodes into, like, it's only her frock left.

943
00:54:34.980 --> 00:54:36.000
It's fabulous, actually.

944
00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:40.380
It's fabulous, but it makes less sense than the Cyber King itself.

945
00:54:40.739 --> 00:54:42.840
But it is that idea.

946
00:54:42.900 --> 00:54:47.099
Like she's supposed to see what she's become and this is her doing that.

947
00:54:47.159 --> 00:54:47.940
Is it no?

948
00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:48.420
Not yet.

949
00:54:48.480 --> 00:54:53.760
But it happens in a sec, but then she doesn't do anything with that except explode everyone.

950
00:54:53.820 --> 00:54:54.659
Yeah exactly.

951
00:54:55.079 --> 00:55:00.719
And then we get another different special effect where the doctor attacks the cyber king with the title sequence.

952
00:55:00.780 --> 00:55:01.440
Yes.

953
00:55:05.219 --> 00:55:07.079
Yeah, here she is.

954
00:55:07.139 --> 00:55:08.699
Yeah, I'm sorry.

955
00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:10.679
He's completely right at this point.

956
00:55:10.739 --> 00:55:11.699
She needed to.

957
00:55:11.699 --> 00:55:12.480
Yeah.

958
00:55:12.539 --> 00:55:13.380
Redemption.

959
00:55:14.099 --> 00:55:17.039
Oh, and she's acting a socks off.

960
00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:18.239
Oh, yes, yes.

961
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:34.739
But yeah, it's that thing of, you know, Russell clearly didn't have distance from the script as he usually would because he had to write 15, Well, not write 15, but produce slash write 15 scripts in the time he would usually have for 13.

962
00:55:34.860 --> 00:55:36.480
Oh, and there you go.

963
00:55:36.539 --> 00:55:37.380
There's a frock.

964
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:39.239
Yeah.

965
00:55:39.300 --> 00:55:43.920
So, and now it's going to fall on Rosita and everyone.

966
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:47.880
Yeah, so, like, he's now the, he's the Greek chorus.

967
00:55:47.940 --> 00:55:54.599
Now the doctor's just, I mean, yeah, Morrissey's just get, you know, reduced to telling us what we just saw in the previous scene.

968
00:55:58.980 --> 00:56:02.039
It's Prometheus, run sideways.

969
00:56:08.039 --> 00:56:10.260
Looks great doesn't it?

970
00:56:10.320 --> 00:56:13.320
I mean, it's an absolute cartoon, but who cares?

971
00:56:16.380 --> 00:56:17.219
Oh yeah, here we go.

972
00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:27.599
I mean, yeah, I mean, Russell's starting point is, anytime you, well, you said this as well, Nathan, anytime your resolution is, the doctor fires a gun at something. rewrite.

973
00:56:27.659 --> 00:56:28.440
Yeah.

974
00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:32.400
It's the same problem that I had with Rise of Skywalker.

975
00:56:32.460 --> 00:56:38.219
It's just who is able to project the most lightning from their things, wins.

976
00:56:38.340 --> 00:56:40.260
You know, it's just not very interesting.

977
00:56:42.059 --> 00:56:46.320
Yeah, I think I think I'm not really satisfied by it.

978
00:56:46.380 --> 00:56:47.400
I think that's the thing.

979
00:56:47.460 --> 00:56:48.000
Yeah.

980
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:51.360
It's, there's some nice elements, but, yeah.

981
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:52.679
It's average.

982
00:56:52.739 --> 00:56:54.420
Like I give it I give it 7 out of 10.

983
00:56:54.659 --> 00:56:55.739
0.4.

984
00:56:56.460 --> 00:56:58.440
I give it a six.

985
00:56:58.559 --> 00:56:59.820
0.6.

986
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:02.159
No, I think I'm with you.

987
00:57:02.219 --> 00:57:06.480
It's like a, it's it's just not that memorable.

988
00:57:06.539 --> 00:57:07.380
Yeah.

989
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:10.199
It's, look, I would argue of these specials.

990
00:57:10.260 --> 00:57:14.579
The only one Russell really gets right is the waters of Mars and end of time 2.

991
00:57:14.760 --> 00:57:19.380
End of time one, I think is the worst episode Russell writes for the show.

992
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:26.519
I think there's a lot going for episode one, but it is him kind of running on empty and kind of riding out the clock a bit.

993
00:57:26.579 --> 00:57:27.239
Yeah.

994
00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:35.460
I'm looking forward to see what I think of Planet of the Dead because I have a little bit of a soft spot for it.

995
00:57:35.519 --> 00:57:37.860
Planets of the Dead, I find is like this.

996
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:46.260
It's like there's nothing I pointed and go, that's absolutely disastrous, and it's like, I enjoyed the last hour, but I'm not, you know, it's not extremists, let's say.

997
00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:48.719
But I mean, it is a season opener.

998
00:57:48.780 --> 00:57:50.880
We'll get to that. later on.

999
00:57:50.940 --> 00:57:52.500
Oh my god, a child just showed emotion.

1000
00:57:58.800 --> 00:58:00.659
Yeah, I mean, what's this shot?

1001
00:58:00.719 --> 00:58:03.179
He's staring into the dead air of the conversation.

1002
00:58:06.420 --> 00:58:09.360
Oh, and here we are back in the thing.

1003
00:58:09.420 --> 00:58:12.000
And I mean, I think this seems quite agreeable as well.

1004
00:58:12.059 --> 00:58:12.960
Yes, yeah.

1005
00:58:16.019 --> 00:58:19.199
Yeah, see that's spoken of for centuries to come, you know.

1006
00:58:22.260 --> 00:58:34.920
Yeah, what's great about Moffat is that Moffat gives Um, no less than 3 explanations in his 1st 2 years as to why people don't remember things.

1007
00:58:35.159 --> 00:58:41.400
Yeah, no, well, he wipes out the two-part season finale of series four.

1008
00:58:41.460 --> 00:58:42.539
Yeah, that never happened.

1009
00:58:42.599 --> 00:58:43.619
Yeah, yeah.

1010
00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:44.579
There's cracks.

1011
00:58:44.639 --> 00:58:45.960
And then he resets the universe twice.

1012
00:58:46.019 --> 00:58:47.039
Yeah, yeah.

1013
00:58:47.099 --> 00:58:48.480
I kind of like that.

1014
00:58:48.539 --> 00:58:49.440
Oh me too.

1015
00:58:49.500 --> 00:58:52.860
But we'll talk about this over the next number of years.

1016
00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:57.599
It's his approach to the show is not to create a coherent world for it to happen.

1017
00:58:57.659 --> 00:59:00.659
He's interested in telling different types of stories.

1018
00:59:00.780 --> 00:59:02.880
Don't let the cat sit on the remote.

1019
00:59:02.940 --> 00:59:03.360
No.

1020
00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:09.059
That was a good leap Netflix, which is bad.

1021
00:59:10.019 --> 00:59:16.440
Yes, it's in Chesterson's coat from Marco Polo..

1022
00:59:16.500 --> 00:59:18.960
Oh, hello, this is a bit beautiful.

1023
00:59:19.019 --> 00:59:19.980
Yeah, isn't it?

1024
00:59:20.039 --> 00:59:20.400
Yeah.

1025
00:59:21.119 --> 00:59:25.739
And I'm pretty sure that's the same archway that they park in in the Unquiet Dead.

1026
00:59:25.800 --> 00:59:27.599
Yeah, I think I was thinking that too.

1027
00:59:27.659 --> 00:59:27.840
Yeah.

1028
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:28.260
Yeah.

1029
00:59:28.559 --> 00:59:30.480
In Swansea.

1030
00:59:30.539 --> 00:59:31.920
You lied to me, Jackson.

1031
00:59:31.980 --> 00:59:33.000
There is a Swansea.

1032
00:59:34.380 --> 00:59:37.079
I've got this toy now.

1033
00:59:37.139 --> 00:59:38.940
I've got the toy of this.

1034
00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:39.659
Have you?

1035
00:59:39.659 --> 00:59:40.500
It's beautiful.

1036
00:59:40.559 --> 00:59:42.780
It's really easy to put together.

1037
00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:50.219
It struck me watching this too, how much that stuff above the central column looks like a balloon.

1038
00:59:50.219 --> 00:59:51.539
Yes, yes.

1039
00:59:51.599 --> 00:59:52.860
Yes, it does.

1040
00:59:53.880 --> 00:59:55.920
I love this reaction.

1041
01:00:02.039 --> 01:00:03.719
It's great, isn't it?

1042
01:00:03.780 --> 01:00:04.500
Like, he loves it.

1043
01:00:04.559 --> 01:00:07.019
He's not distressed by it, but that's enough.

1044
01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:11.579
Oh, and there's the, yeah, that's lovely.

1045
01:00:11.639 --> 01:00:14.400
Now, to me, this is Jackson's heroic moment.

1046
01:00:14.519 --> 01:00:15.719
Yeah, maybe you're right.

1047
01:00:15.780 --> 01:00:16.260
Yeah.

1048
01:00:16.320 --> 01:00:23.519
Because like everyone in Journey's end lets the doctor walk away because they think someone else is looking after him.

1049
01:00:23.579 --> 01:00:27.179
Yeah, and Jackson refuses to accept that.

1050
01:00:27.480 --> 01:00:29.699
And I just think that's beautiful.

1051
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:33.179
Um, yeah.

1052
01:00:33.239 --> 01:00:40.380
And again, tenants doctor, you know, he's, he is in pining mode here, but he's not whinging about it the way he does over rose.

1053
01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:43.320
He's he's resigned to it and he's accepting it.

1054
01:00:43.380 --> 01:00:46.440
He's expecting Jackson to say, oh, that's so sad. off you go.

1055
01:00:46.500 --> 01:00:47.699
Yeah.

1056
01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:52.199
Yeah, I guess I would have liked a proper, proper hero moment.

1057
01:00:52.260 --> 01:00:52.619
I get that.

1058
01:00:52.679 --> 01:00:53.099
I get that.

1059
01:00:53.159 --> 01:00:55.920
And I agree, especially rescuing a sound.

1060
01:00:55.920 --> 01:00:57.119
And sometimes they break my heart.

1061
01:00:57.179 --> 01:01:00.480
Yeah, that's sort of. you think he looks tired?

1062
01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:03.659
15 episodes.

1063
01:01:03.780 --> 01:01:04.380
That's right.

1064
01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:09.059
There's our 1st reference to Donna.

1065
01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:10.440
Yeah.

1066
01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:18.179
He's accepting Christmas dinner here just like he did with Jackie.

1067
01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:18.840
Yeah.

1068
01:01:18.840 --> 01:01:20.639
Yeah, well, people call Jack.

1069
01:01:20.699 --> 01:01:21.539
He likes them.

1070
01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:26.400
Yeah, good.

1071
01:01:26.579 --> 01:01:27.480
Remember to close the door.

1072
01:01:27.539 --> 01:01:29.039
I'm always really anxious when you're fine.

1073
01:01:29.099 --> 01:01:32.280
I can't bear it when I do. in classic series when they don't do it.

1074
01:01:32.340 --> 01:01:34.260
It's like, oh, really?

1075
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:36.239
That's how you...

1076
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:40.800
Planet of that.

1077
01:01:40.800 --> 01:01:42.420
Ah, well, there we go.

1078
01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:43.800
That was a happy Christmas.

1079
01:01:43.800 --> 01:01:44.639
Tremendous cars.

1080
01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:46.500
Paul Casey's, in fact, the cyber leader?

1081
01:01:46.559 --> 01:01:47.400
Yep, of course he is.

1082
01:01:47.699 --> 01:01:50.880
And a lot of people that worked very hard.

1083
01:01:50.940 --> 01:01:52.739
Yeah, well, a lot of people.

1084
01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:54.900
Well, they're allowed to do proper credits now.

1085
01:01:55.500 --> 01:01:56.880
Yes.

1086
01:01:56.880 --> 01:01:59.760
Yeah, well, they've slowed the credits down again in Doctor Who.

1087
01:01:59.820 --> 01:02:01.079
It's a bit jiggery, though.

1088
01:02:01.139 --> 01:02:03.300
I mean, that's a jigger jigger, I think.

1089
01:02:03.360 --> 01:02:03.599
Yeah.

1090
01:02:04.079 --> 01:02:09.300
Well, do we have closing statements or do we think we've more or less exhausted this?

1091
01:02:09.780 --> 01:02:12.000
It's an agreeable hour.

1092
01:02:12.059 --> 01:02:12.840
Yeah.

1093
01:02:13.260 --> 01:02:14.099
I think that's fair.

1094
01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:17.460
It's totally okay, but I'm not I'm not in love with it.

1095
01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:25.139
I liked elements as we were watching it, but, you know, I'm going to forget about it in, by the time I drive home tonight.

1096
01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:29.039
It's perfect Christmas repast.

1097
01:02:29.099 --> 01:02:32.820
I don't believe it sets out to do any more than it's required to.

1098
01:02:32.880 --> 01:02:36.119
In the end, it's, have I been given truth?

1099
01:02:36.239 --> 01:02:42.480
Do the performers believe in their own actions and there's no one in this that lets me down?

1100
01:02:42.539 --> 01:02:47.400
I know what you're saying about the children, but I would have liked...

1101
01:02:47.460 --> 01:02:51.480
Maybe, yeah, maybe as a two-parter with some spinning up, but it's for Christmas.

1102
01:02:51.539 --> 01:02:53.460
So we just get high notes.

1103
01:02:53.519 --> 01:02:55.019
There's a lot of sugar in this.

1104
01:02:55.079 --> 01:02:56.400
Yeah.

1105
01:02:56.460 --> 01:02:57.059
Yeah.

1106
01:02:57.780 --> 01:03:01.139
Hence, we're all going to do a shot of insulin to go.

1107
01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:02.940
Another one of these cakes.

1108
01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:04.559
Vicious cakes.

1109
01:03:04.619 --> 01:03:05.340
Thank you, Richard.

1110
01:03:05.340 --> 01:03:06.539
Bringing them back to the podcast.

1111
01:03:06.599 --> 01:03:08.099
That's brilliant.

1112
01:03:08.159 --> 01:03:10.079
Little angel cake, was it?

1113
01:03:11.159 --> 01:03:17.820
Well, I guess all that remains is for me to say, well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.

1114
01:03:17.820 --> 01:03:24.179
We'll be back in a few weeks time for a somewhat fly-blown trip to Dubai in Planet of the Dead.

1115
01:03:24.900 --> 01:03:41.159
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook, at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, and Jody into Terra.

1116
01:03:41.280 --> 01:03:45.179
Until next time, remember, always to be nice to the help.

1117
01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:50.639
It's the only way to ensure your invitation to one of the Cyber King's garden parties.

1118
01:03:50.699 --> 01:03:53.159
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1119
01:03:53.219 --> 01:03:54.300
Good night.

1120
01:03:54.360 --> 01:03:56.400
See you soon Good then.