WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:15:01

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Hello, dear listener and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast that still hasn't recovered from being

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smashed in the face by that shipping container in Dubai.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Simon.

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Well, Doctor Who's 2009 series is looking extremely promising with

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a new companion, exciting guest stars, thrilling location work, and

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our 3rd ominous prophecy in as many years.

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Let's see how it all kicks off in the 1st episode of the new

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series, Planet of the Dead.

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So at one level, this really does kind of operate as the 1st

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episode of the new series, do we think?

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Yes, it would operate like that more so if Christina stayed at the

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end of it, though.

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Because that's what you feel it's leading to.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It does that thing that the previous season openers do, which is

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introduce a new companion with a reasonably light and kind of thin

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plot and sort of generally, you know, sort of a comedy tone, and

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then it kind of takes a turn at the end.

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But it's not quite the comedy tone that those other 2 are, in what

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sense?

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Well, it's much darker.

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It's much more gripping than, say, Smith and Jones is or partners

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in crime, which I'm not saying they're bad, but this is, I think

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this is deliberately setting out to be a chilling suspenseful

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story in ways that I think that those other ones aren't, don't you

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think?

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No, I think this has got this, they're trying to make a, the way I

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see this and maybe it's the HD thing.

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They're trying to make this spectacular. which they achieve with.

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No?

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I think it is spectacular.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I think they're making...

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But I think, yeah, yeah.

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I'm not sorry. saying it isn't spectacular, but this is being made

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to be a spectacle to be incredibly impressive visually to grab the

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audience.

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It's filming.

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Maybe that's linked to the fact that it's the 1st one that's in HD

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but it's certainly the 1st one that is filmmic in this way, which

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you see a lot more of as you move through the Matt Smith era.

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And certainly, by the time you get to Capaldi, They really do

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start to feel like feature films the way they're made.

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No?

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Yeah, I think so.

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But I'm interested in following up the thing about whether it's

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dark and ominous.

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What do you think, Todd?

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Maybe at the end.

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I don't know if it's Dark Anonymous any more so than the previous

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2 season openers necessarily have been.

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I mean, people still die, 100000000000 people.

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Well, I guess that is dark ominous.

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I guess that is dark.

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Like, you know, the fact that the sand is dead people and lots of

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them.

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But I don't necessarily feel like through most of it that it's

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suddenly ominous.

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I mean, unless you're talking about Carmen, who has the low-level

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cycle ability, make prophecies.

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No, I'm not saying that there is no lightness of touch.

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I am not saying that there's no humour in it, but you'd have to

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say that there's more darkness.

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There's more suspense, there's more chilling, there's more these

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things flying down.

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The oncoming storm sort of thing.

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Yeah.

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I'm not even talking about the Carmen prophecy prophecies either.

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I actually think, though, it is very clear early on that the only

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death is going to be the bus driver. and the reason for that, the

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absolute thing that tells you that that's the case, is that speech

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that David Tennant gives, or not a speech.

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The scene where David Tennant interrogates everyone about what

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they're going home to on the bus.

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So we're kind of leaping ahead, but there's what I think is a very

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rustly scene, and what I think is a great scene in some ways

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although I have some reservations about it, where the doctor

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determines that no one else is going to die, and then he asks

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everyone what they're going home to, and they're going home to

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chops and gravy or to Tina.

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Lovely domestic, small scales.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, like in Father's Day.

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Yes.

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In fact, he's exactly the same as Father's Day.

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Yeah, and I mean, he's sort of done it before.

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And Moffatt will take it up as well.

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And I think from that point on, we know that no one else is going

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to die that they're all going to be fine.

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Don't we?

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Oh, I'm not saying you don't.

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I mean, I don't, I suppose I don't watch it like that.

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They all got horribly killed because the bus got vaporised just

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before the doctor and Christina flee the scene or something.

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That would have been perfectly fine as well.

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But, I mean, that...

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Yeah, exactly.

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It's actually different treatment of the bus.

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Oh, but don't you think the bus travel is a bit better done

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compared to Delta and the Benamit?

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Only slightly better.

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But don't you think that the that sort of that celebration of the

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ordinary, which, as you said, they did in Father's Day in Moffatt

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doesn't get, Moffatt doesn't, and it sort of is...

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I mean, it's all very nice, but do we really care?

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Does it sort of come across as a bit twee and forced?

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I think that Tennant doesn't pull it off at the end, and I think

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he is so patronising about it.

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But what it does do, there's a couple of times where Christina is

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a bit abashed, and we'll talk about Christina a bit more later, but

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she's kind of a little bit abashed by that.

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You know, she's taken control and she's being sort of the posh

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aristocratic girl who's in charge.

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Do you think the reason why Tenant is not so great with this

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episode is because he'd forgotten how to do the accent?

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No.

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No, no.

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Like he actually, he had been in Hamlet for like 9 months before

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this and he came back on session and was like, I can't remember

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how to do the accent.

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It's funny.

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I didn't pick a difference.

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Did you pick a difference?

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interesting.

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It's a bit more, it's a bit more Dick Van Dyke. think.

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So, so he's, he's not, he's not, look, he's never that sort of

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naturalistic, and I just think that he doesn't sell the reaction

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to it.

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He's a little bit too kind of, you know, these little people who

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like chop.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Yeah, pets, yeah.

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But I think it's super effective because I think all of the other

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actors are incredibly great.

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And particularly the woman who plays Angela, who's crying at that

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and the doctors had to calm her down.

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And then she talks about like her daughter and her husband who

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she's going home to.

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And that's a really nice moment.

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I love the thing about Nathan who he's he's lost his job and he's

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just going home to watch telly because he hasn't got any money.

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That's fine.

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He'll end up on casualty.

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Yeah, does he?

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Well, and Daniel Kaluya, who will end up being an international

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film star.

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Eating your best actor. nomination.

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So, I was about to say, yes, yes.

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The other actors aren't quite good.

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And so I think that's good.

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And that is Russell's Doctor Who.

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And that is the people at home watching, you know, that.

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Yeah, but this is why I sort of question that motivation.

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And it's not just Russell, as you said, it's the entire, it comes

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up in modern Doctor Who.

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It's like, I don't watch Doctor Who to, to, to, aspire towards

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going home and having chops and gravy. you know what I mean?

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I mean, I know you want to be the ordinary person who's, you know

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flung to the other side of the galaxy to Dubai to have this

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adventure.

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But I want them to kind of be exhilarated by that rather than

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completely petrified. that the show was being made for then, the

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show was being made for that family audience.

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It was being made for mainstream audience.

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It is a thing to do it.

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Like Doctor Who, and we're getting ahead of ourselves here, stopped

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being that accessible when it started being made for us again.

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Sometime in the early 2010s.

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And I love that era of the show.

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But it's no longer a family show.

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It's a sci-fi show that's being broadcast at 7 PM on a Saturday

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night.

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I'm not denying that it's a deliberate choice.

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I'm just saying that that's all very nice, but that's not my

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show.

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That's not the show that I grew up loving.

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That's that's the show.

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That's the show trying to be popular, which I know is ultimately

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designed.

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We all want to be popular.

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No, no, no, but just because well, no, but just because

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something's incredibly popular, it doesn't make it good.

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No, but I do think that what that enables is it enables a wider

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range of people to kind of access it.

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And I think part of what Doctor Who does in this era is reenchant

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the world that we find ourselves in.

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And so we end up living in a world that Doctor Who is sort of

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touched in a way.

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And so when you walk past the wheelie bins in the street, you

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don't touch the top of them.

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You know, well, it's like, it's like that part we quote about the

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yeti on the luan tooting bet.

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Yeah, it's taking normal and making it...

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But interesting, you talk about the wheelie bean and the yeti on

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the loo and tooting beck.

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One of the other boy, the one who's lost your job. whatever his

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name is, he is the one, I think he mentions.

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Oh, remember last?

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the planet's in the sky and all that sort of stuff because we're

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now in the universe of the Doctor Who universe where that all

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actually has happened.

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You don't get this reset where, oh, you know, don't you remember

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the Etis in the underground and the Loch Des monster?

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you know, where you live in this, because it does create a

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problem.

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It does create a problem where everyone remembers that these other

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things happen because it makes them, you should think more

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credulous.

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It should make them more credulous to what happens next.

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But we live in a world where we watch those things on telly, so

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they happened. you know what I mean?

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Like, so those things...

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No, I'm talking about the artistic choice.

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But that's what I'm saying.

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I'm saying that having Doctor Who set in a recognisable world with

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people from just normal TV shows on it makes it into something

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that then reenchants our world.

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And so every time we walk past Battersea Power Station or look at

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Big Ben, or walk past a Wheelie Bin, or see a council van sort of

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digging up the road, we think of things that have happened in

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Doctor Who.

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And so I think that what it does is enchant our world, and I think

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there is something of that in the per to era, but it's not quite

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the same thing.

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And one of the things that I love about this series, the

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domestic.

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And I do think that that scene may be a little bit, you know, maybe

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doesn't come off and maybe a bit over-agged.

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But I'm prepared to give it a pass because it's a sort of

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special.

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For me, the issue is not bringing it to domestic bringing it to

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the ordinary and making the ordinary because you're not making the

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chops and gravy into something nasty.

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You're just saying these people were going home to have chops and

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gravy or West Kelly, which is absolutely fine.

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I actually see it also as the fact that it's a primitive or clumsy

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attempt to try and give these people character in the bus.

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The people in the bus really don't have a lot of character.

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The character they do have is very one dimensional and it's one

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dimensional because of things like this, things like those

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conversations, making them think, oh, yes, we've given them a

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character now.

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He's unemployed.

249
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He's alone.

250
00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:08.639
He's this, she's missing his husband.

251
00:12:08.820 --> 00:12:09.840
But he isn't that in 3 days.

252
00:12:09.899 --> 00:12:11.700
But isn't that modern television?

253
00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:15.720
Like, isn't isn't that, isn't that like, you know, we've only got

254
00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:16.500
an hour to do this?

255
00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:18.419
talking about we've only got an hour to do this.

256
00:12:19.500 --> 00:12:22.080
It's not about how long the show is.

257
00:12:22.139 --> 00:12:23.879
It's how well it's written.

258
00:12:23.940 --> 00:12:28.080
But I think that is good writing to be able to, to give all that

259
00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.559
shit to those characters within the space of one scene so that we

260
00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:37.740
can then move on to the story and, and so, I just think that, that

261
00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:38.759
that is good writing.

262
00:12:38.820 --> 00:12:42.360
And last year we had characters in a bus again, right?

263
00:12:42.419 --> 00:12:44.940
But they were trapped in that bus for a whole time.

264
00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:46.980
You had more time to be with them here.

265
00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:49.799
They're going outside of the bus and it's a necessity of the story

266
00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:52.620
because you've got other characters that you've got to deal with

267
00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:53.879
to get back to where you're going to.

268
00:12:53.940 --> 00:12:55.320
It's very economical.

269
00:12:55.379 --> 00:12:58.620
I also think that characterisation isn't what we're necessarily

270
00:12:58.620 --> 00:12:59.759
going for here.

271
00:13:00.659 --> 00:13:05.399
Because this is an action adventure thing and that there are

272
00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:08.759
character pieces in Doctor Who, but we don't get that every week.

273
00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:12.419
And sometimes we do get sort of subtle, complex characters.

274
00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:15.539
Sometimes we get the luxury of meeting a character and getting to

275
00:13:15.539 --> 00:13:17.100
know them over a series of years.

276
00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:20.639
But all we're doing here is sketching in enough of these people's

277
00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:23.460
lives so that we kind of care about.

278
00:13:24.659 --> 00:13:26.460
Because we don't have a lot of time.

279
00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:30.600
And I think that that actually does that.

280
00:13:30.659 --> 00:13:35.220
And I do think that that's what, that's what makes it a bit less

281
00:13:35.220 --> 00:13:39.000
anxiety-provoking for the people at home because I do think that

282
00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:43.080
someone clued into the kind of genre tropes will realise that once

283
00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:47.759
we know that about them in this era of Doctor Who, they're going

284
00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:52.500
to be fine, that Doctor Who isn't going to do that to us, you know

285
00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:53.759
on a funny Easter special.

286
00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:57.720
But we've had a lot, we've had a lot last year of horrible things

287
00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:00.840
happen to people that we, we love like Donna, and this is not

288
00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:01.200
about that.

289
00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:04.500
This is, we've got to focus on Lady Christina and the doctor

290
00:14:04.500 --> 00:14:08.940
moving on from Donna and this is supposed to be a lighthearted

291
00:14:08.940 --> 00:14:09.360
adventure.

292
00:14:09.419 --> 00:14:13.019
Like, I'm okay with the fact that the characters are not

293
00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:17.460
necessarily going to be the most in-depth things and are light and

294
00:14:17.460 --> 00:14:18.419
are lightly sketched.

295
00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:21.299
I'm not saying that they're supposed to be in depth.

296
00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:24.960
I'm just saying that that was an attempt to tick a box.

297
00:14:25.019 --> 00:14:27.899
It's like...

298
00:14:27.899 --> 00:14:31.259
It's about the same as Mel being a computer programmer from Peace

299
00:14:31.259 --> 00:14:31.799
Pottage.

300
00:14:31.860 --> 00:14:33.659
That was the extent of Mel's character, really.

301
00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:36.539
And that's basically what these characters are.

302
00:14:36.659 --> 00:14:40.740
I'm not saying that, it's an observation more about, um, about the

303
00:14:40.740 --> 00:14:43.559
fact that they've put that in to make us try, to think that that

304
00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:44.519
will make us care about them.

305
00:14:44.580 --> 00:14:47.759
And what I'm saying is it does not make me care about them.

306
00:14:47.820 --> 00:14:49.200
Well, you're a monster.

307
00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:49.860
I am.

308
00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:51.480
I'm glad we've got that sort.

309
00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:05.519
I'd like to talk about Lady Christina and the performance of

310
00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:06.539
Michelle Ryan.

311
00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:07.980
Yeah, what do you think?

312
00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:09.840
I'm Invicuous.

313
00:15:09.899 --> 00:15:10.500
Yeah, okay.

314
00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:12.120
I absolutely adore her.

315
00:15:12.179 --> 00:15:15.000
I adore her in things that she's been in Bionic Woman.

316
00:15:15.059 --> 00:15:18.600
That's a terrible series, but she was great in that, and I really

317
00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:19.919
adore her in this.

318
00:15:19.980 --> 00:15:27.299
And the relationship with the doctor, at times, I think works

319
00:15:27.299 --> 00:15:29.759
really well, and other times perhaps it might seem a little bit

320
00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:32.580
off, but I think you're sort of comparing to what's gone before

321
00:15:32.580 --> 00:15:33.539
with Donna.

322
00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:38.039
And I really like it as we were talking previously, Nathan, and

323
00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:42.000
you were saying like this is like a season 5 opener.

324
00:15:42.059 --> 00:15:42.899
That never really was.

325
00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:46.019
And I never thought of it like that until you had mentioned that.

326
00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:51.000
And so, um, it's really interesting seeing her performance and

327
00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:54.720
where it goes throughout the episode and how she takes control and

328
00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:59.220
but it also is also a bit like those 90s companions that we never

329
00:15:59.220 --> 00:16:02.279
really had where they're just this high concept where she's like

330
00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:04.679
she's not lower middle, upper class.

331
00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:09.480
She's upper, upper class and that's a, and she's a thief and it's

332
00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:15.960
all very sort of sketchy and, and perhaps, would it really work if

333
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:16.860
we had a whole series?

334
00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:20.820
I like to think that she's, she, you know, she's rebelling against

335
00:16:20.820 --> 00:16:24.120
her evil stepfather and stepsister, the nasmiths, who we're going

336
00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:25.679
to see later in the season.

337
00:16:26.700 --> 00:16:30.539
And no, I really enjoy her throughout this entire, Brooke.

338
00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:35.700
So she is loosely based on Rain Creevy, the companion that

339
00:16:35.700 --> 00:16:38.340
Cartmore wanted to replace Ace with.

340
00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:42.000
So there's a scene and all they say, isn't it?

341
00:16:42.059 --> 00:16:45.360
that she was trying to break into a safe and there was going to be

342
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:48.600
the big action scene where she descends from the thing like we see

343
00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:49.980
in the cold open here.

344
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:53.220
And then she opens the safe and Sylvester McCoy's inside saying

345
00:16:53.220 --> 00:16:54.360
what took you so long.

346
00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:55.620
What kept you?

347
00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:56.100
Yeah.

348
00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:57.960
And that was the entire country.

349
00:16:58.019 --> 00:16:59.460
And that would be that was the entire concept.

350
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:00.779
That would have been a pre-credited sequence.

351
00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:01.740
Had they had them in those days?

352
00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:03.059
Yeah, ask Big Finish.

353
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:03.960
Oh, right.

354
00:17:04.019 --> 00:17:04.680
Did they do that to them?

355
00:17:04.740 --> 00:17:07.019
But don't you love the pre-credit sequence with her?

356
00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:10.079
Yeah, absolutely. whole, like, especially impossible and it's

357
00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:10.440
stupid.

358
00:17:10.500 --> 00:17:13.019
What is that, that gold thing with the little hand?

359
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:14.039
Raiders of the Lost Ark.

360
00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:17.099
Yeah. and Mission Impossible.

361
00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:20.940
We have one of those things in my house, the little cat that waves

362
00:17:20.940 --> 00:17:22.619
and it makes a noise.

363
00:17:22.740 --> 00:17:27.000
And so it's ticking at the same at exactly the same rate as my

364
00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:27.900
heartbeats, actually.

365
00:17:28.019 --> 00:17:30.359
It's terrifying. the other way around.

366
00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:31.619
Yeah, it's good.

367
00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:32.880
Yeah, rageous the cat.

368
00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:35.460
But that is terrifically kind of fun.

369
00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:39.660
And her getting on the bus and not knowing what an oyster card

370
00:17:39.660 --> 00:17:40.079
is.

371
00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:43.799
I still call opal cards, lobster cards, actually, like that's

372
00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:44.700
still a thing from that.

373
00:17:45.059 --> 00:17:48.539
And I think all of that is terrifically wonderful.

374
00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:51.599
And it's the thing that you said, Tom, that this is a high concept

375
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:54.960
companion of the kind that we haven't had since the 1980s.

376
00:17:55.019 --> 00:17:57.359
And so that's what we always had in the 1980s.

377
00:17:57.420 --> 00:17:58.319
It's Adrik.

378
00:17:58.380 --> 00:18:01.319
He's a mathematical genius, and he's from the planet Alzarius, and

379
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:04.859
he heals very quickly, and he walks like a duck.

380
00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:05.519
That's right.

381
00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:09.240
And, you know, Nissa and all of those people are sort of high

382
00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:12.779
concept characters that, you know, Doctor Who, when it comes back

383
00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:14.640
to science, actually that doesn't work.

384
00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:18.000
What we really need is someone who is an identifiable kind of TV

385
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:18.839
character.

386
00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:23.279
And, you know, Martha's allowed to be middle class because she's

387
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:27.900
black and Don is allowed to be middle class because, you know, her

388
00:18:27.900 --> 00:18:29.940
whole family's kind of miserable in some way.

389
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:33.240
Well, I think she's allowed to be middle class because she's

390
00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:36.960
working at a job which her family thinks is beneath her or beneath

391
00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:37.500
a family.

392
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:38.819
So that has a connection.

393
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:41.819
Do you think she's a bit of a throwback to Romana?

394
00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:42.839
Yeah.

395
00:18:42.900 --> 00:18:43.319
Oh, yeah.

396
00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:46.079
And the lady thing... yeah.

397
00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:49.680
I was going to say, like, she reminds me, the performance is a bit

398
00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:50.640
Mary Tam-esque.

399
00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:53.039
Like, I think she's gorgeous.

400
00:18:53.099 --> 00:18:55.200
The performance is Mary Tamish, but don't you think the lines

401
00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:57.000
themselves are what Lala says?

402
00:18:57.059 --> 00:18:59.819
Like, it's just the band, there's a particular, there's a pace of

403
00:18:59.819 --> 00:19:02.819
the banter, and it's almost like David Tennant is, the inner

404
00:19:02.819 --> 00:19:05.819
fanboy of David Tennant is playing playing against Ramana.

405
00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:09.000
I'd be really interested to know how much of this script was

406
00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.400
written by Gareth Roberts in the 1st pass and how much was written

407
00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:13.380
by...

408
00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:16.200
I mean, you can tell the scene that we were talking before is just

409
00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:17.279
pure Russell, isn't it?

410
00:19:17.339 --> 00:19:21.059
And I think Russell does a passover the dialogue sort of generally

411
00:19:21.059 --> 00:19:22.319
which is what he normally did.

412
00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:25.259
Do we know what the histories of this, why they're both credited?

413
00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:27.000
So there's basically this story?

414
00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:34.799
is inspired by, but not based on the highest science.

415
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:37.920
Which has a train.

416
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:42.480
A tube train goes through a 40 and flicker, one of those terrible

417
00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:43.440
sort of...

418
00:19:43.500 --> 00:19:45.539
And they're known by their number, like they're terrible aliens

419
00:19:45.539 --> 00:19:48.900
and they're called number something or other, but it's the 518 to

420
00:19:48.900 --> 00:19:50.880
Clapham or something, you know, like I can't remember.

421
00:19:50.940 --> 00:19:56.819
So like that, that Russell loved that idea in that story of this

422
00:19:56.819 --> 00:20:00.420
tube train just going through a wormhole and ending up on an alien

423
00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:04.380
planet and went, but we'll turn it into a bus because it got fun.

424
00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:09.720
And, you know, we can have a bit where it flies around and, um, Oh

425
00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:12.539
and originally it was supposed to feature the Chelonians as well.

426
00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:14.759
Instead of the Tritivors.

427
00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:18.000
Yeah, but they decided that maybe sticking someone in a giant

428
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:23.519
turtle costume in the middle of a desert in Dubai would kill

429
00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:24.420
them.

430
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:25.859
Oh, I thought they were, you mean they were worried?

431
00:20:25.980 --> 00:20:27.839
worried about how that would look at the end of the day.

432
00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:32.579
I'm thinking it's like the fake crawl in power of crawl.

433
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:38.700
Well, can I say that I think that this also owes an enormous

434
00:20:38.700 --> 00:20:40.019
amount to the haunts of Nymon?

435
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:40.559
I agree.

436
00:20:40.619 --> 00:20:40.859
Yeah.

437
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:41.640
Oh, of course it does.

438
00:20:41.700 --> 00:20:44.819
At the moment, those creatures had destroyed everything and we're

439
00:20:44.819 --> 00:20:46.440
going to go through the wormhole.

440
00:20:46.500 --> 00:20:48.839
I just thought...

441
00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:51.599
They even almost say something like the great journey of life or

442
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:52.200
something like that.

443
00:20:52.259 --> 00:20:53.940
Well, the insect creatures did.

444
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:56.039
No, the doctor calls something like that.

445
00:20:56.099 --> 00:20:58.619
Because of their lifecycle.

446
00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:02.819
Yeah. there is a sort of oblique reference and there were rumours

447
00:21:02.819 --> 00:21:06.539
in the press at the time of the press, the fan press at the time

448
00:21:06.539 --> 00:21:09.119
that the Naimon were coming back.

449
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:13.079
Because the bits of the story had leaked out.

450
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:15.660
Thank gosh, they didn't.

451
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:20.700
Can I ask about you was touched on earlier about the fact that

452
00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:24.960
Christina sort of takes charge. when they when they worked out

453
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:27.240
where they are, they need to do something and she says, we need to

454
00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:29.160
appoint a leader, right, off I go.

455
00:21:29.220 --> 00:21:32.339
Now, you kind of mentioned that you thought it was a, you know

456
00:21:32.339 --> 00:21:34.559
trying to suggest she was an aristocrat.

457
00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:39.420
See, I read that as that they were just trying to flip the whole

458
00:21:39.420 --> 00:21:41.039
thing around because usually the doctor will just stand up and

459
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:41.940
everyone will listen to the doctor.

460
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:43.799
Whereas they're trying to say, well, they don't just have to

461
00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:44.279
listen to the man.

462
00:21:44.339 --> 00:21:45.180
No.

463
00:21:45.180 --> 00:21:47.220
But I think she does a great job of doing it.

464
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:50.400
But I think that she assumes that she's in charge because she's

465
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:50.940
posh.

466
00:21:51.059 --> 00:21:54.000
And the other thing that she does, which I think is marvellous, is

467
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:57.359
she's the 1st person in the new series, to think that the doctor

468
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:00.839
is a weird thing to call someone and keeps asking him what his

469
00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:04.380
last name is and all of that and makes fun of the fact that he's

470
00:22:04.380 --> 00:22:05.339
called the doctor.

471
00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:08.099
And that's something that, you know, Moffatt does later.

472
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:09.660
But that happens for the 1st time here.

473
00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:13.259
And I do think it is, like, the lord and lady thing.

474
00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:16.980
Like the idea of an aristocratic cat burglar is so high concept

475
00:22:16.980 --> 00:22:20.460
and so different from anything that you get to see on EastEnders

476
00:22:20.460 --> 00:22:24.240
or indeed, you know, on any other sort of non-genre TV show.

477
00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:26.339
Depends on episode of EastEnders, surely.

478
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:27.359
Well, maybe.

479
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:31.980
But she is a high concept character like him.

480
00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:35.880
They're both, you know, absolutely ostentatiously fictional

481
00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:36.480
characters.

482
00:22:36.539 --> 00:22:38.099
They're lords and ladies.

483
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.819
When the doctor says Alonzy, she replies to him in French.

484
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:43.500
That's brilliant.

485
00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:45.599
No one's ever done that before.

486
00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:48.359
And of course she knows French because she's terribly hosh.

487
00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:54.960
And I do think that the script really, really wants them to be a

488
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.299
better match than any of the previous companions.

489
00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:59.700
They have to be kind of made for one another.

490
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:02.579
And so there's all this talk about them being couples.

491
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:05.279
You know, the doctor's the 1st one to say, we make a good couple

492
00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:08.339
and she says, we're not any sort of couple or something like

493
00:23:08.339 --> 00:23:08.579
that.

494
00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:13.200
And there is that sort of thing where it really, really

495
00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:17.519
desperately tries to match them up in a way that I'm not sure the

496
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:22.079
2 of them sell completely, but they sell it well enough, I think.

497
00:23:22.380 --> 00:23:24.480
But I do agree with you.

498
00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:26.700
I think they sell it pretty well.

499
00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:30.480
I don't think it's perfect, but I think if you'd had 4 or 5

500
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:34.799
adventures with them, then I think it would have been, yeah, they

501
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:36.720
would have settled..

502
00:23:36.779 --> 00:23:38.940
I think it would have settled and you really, really would have

503
00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:39.599
found a groove.

504
00:23:39.660 --> 00:23:41.759
Like I would have really loved to have seen that.

505
00:23:41.819 --> 00:23:45.839
I mean, that is what in practice in the classic era happens to

506
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:46.859
high concept characters.

507
00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:49.859
You know, you introduce a character with this sort of huge

508
00:23:49.859 --> 00:23:51.839
backstory and then guess what?

509
00:23:51.900 --> 00:23:54.299
It doesn't matter because it's all down to the actor's performance

510
00:23:54.299 --> 00:23:54.839
in any case.

511
00:23:54.900 --> 00:23:56.579
I mean, could Mary Tam.

512
00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:00.480
Yeah, you know, as great as Romano isn't her 1st story, by that

513
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:01.380
3rd story in.

514
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:04.200
It's sort of like, you know, she's taken her year of sabbatical

515
00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:05.400
and it's all fine, you know?

516
00:24:05.460 --> 00:24:10.019
She's so magnificent It is, I don't think Christina and Tennant

517
00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:10.740
would have done this.

518
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:13.440
And I think it would have worked really well for Tennant, but

519
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:17.279
maybe it's because Donna was already doing this to Tennant, where

520
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:21.599
Donna's job was to deflate Tennant and make him look ridiculous.

521
00:24:21.660 --> 00:24:27.900
And Mary Tam's job, I think, was to give the doctor someone to act

522
00:24:27.900 --> 00:24:30.779
like a naughty boy against.

523
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:32.819
You know, she was more competent than him.

524
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:35.400
And so the doctor got to be slightly rebellious.

525
00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:37.740
He didn't have to be the person in authority.

526
00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:42.299
He could be the naughty person who was slightly less competent.

527
00:24:42.299 --> 00:24:45.180
And that works really well for him.

528
00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:48.779
So I don't think it would ever have quite settled down to be like

529
00:24:48.779 --> 00:24:50.819
Mary and Tom.

530
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:54.059
But I do think that she has a great deal of charm.

531
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:05.940
So the other thing that's happening here, apart from being a 1st

532
00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:09.420
episode, is it is a special, and the 1st in a series of specials

533
00:25:09.420 --> 00:25:11.339
where we're not going to have very much Doctor Who.

534
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:18.720
How do we feel it functions as the 1st of what ends up being a

535
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:23.099
sort of kind of disappointingly spare series of specials in a

536
00:25:23.099 --> 00:25:23.279
way?

537
00:25:23.339 --> 00:25:27.720
Oh, I'm always a bit apprehensive about using the word specials

538
00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:30.779
because in your head it sort of means that everything has to have

539
00:25:30.779 --> 00:25:34.259
some sort of unique element or elevate in some sort of way.

540
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:40.319
And I don't necessarily think that this does it, you know, and we

541
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:41.039
don't have enough of them.

542
00:25:41.099 --> 00:25:45.660
You know, it's literally 2 episodes and then the finale of Tenet

543
00:25:45.660 --> 00:25:47.940
you really need 4 or five.

544
00:25:48.660 --> 00:25:53.640
Um, and some maybe through line a bit more than what potentially

545
00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:54.299
that there is.

546
00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:56.880
I think it looks spectacular.

547
00:25:56.940 --> 00:26:00.779
That's for certain, but, and I think that's one of the reasons why

548
00:26:00.779 --> 00:26:03.960
I never considered it to be one of the greatest things ever

549
00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:07.380
because it wasn't one of the greatest things ever, like in terms

550
00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:08.039
of a special.

551
00:26:08.099 --> 00:26:12.000
But rewatching and I really like this a lot.

552
00:26:12.059 --> 00:26:13.140
I just enjoy it.

553
00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:19.079
Of this year, I think this is my favourite story. of the specials

554
00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:21.119
of the 3 stories, essentially.

555
00:26:21.180 --> 00:26:28.140
Yeah, like, because it, it's fun and yes, it's dark, but it, in

556
00:26:28.140 --> 00:26:32.519
places, but it, it sort of whips along.

557
00:26:32.579 --> 00:26:34.680
There's there's some joy in there.

558
00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:37.500
Like the characters are obviously getting on with each other.

559
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:42.960
The cast, although they're sparsely sort of drawn, are likeable

560
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:46.500
and, and, you know, you feel for them.

561
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:51.119
Whereas waters of Mars is just unrelentingly dark and end of time

562
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:51.720
is a mess.

563
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:52.380
Yeah.

564
00:26:52.380 --> 00:26:56.099
Well, of course, this is the 1st special that's not special, quite

565
00:26:56.099 --> 00:26:56.640
unquote.

566
00:26:56.700 --> 00:26:57.960
Which has nothing to do with Christmas.

567
00:26:58.019 --> 00:26:58.680
Yeah.

568
00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:00.299
I mean, Voyage of the Dam is quite dark.

569
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:02.400
I mean, voice of dam is actually very dark, right?

570
00:27:02.460 --> 00:27:06.539
But this one is a sort of a, is an in between. like it's part

571
00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:07.019
special.

572
00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:10.440
It's got the festive elements like, you know, the cold open, you

573
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:13.200
know, that's very festive and fun and everything.

574
00:27:13.259 --> 00:27:16.680
But then it's got this, well, it's not Christmas, so we're going

575
00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:18.720
to go into this after you get all the fun stuff.

576
00:27:18.779 --> 00:27:21.779
Then it gets into this very dark sort of, or much more

577
00:27:21.779 --> 00:27:22.380
suspensible.

578
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:23.759
Dark is not quite the word.

579
00:27:23.819 --> 00:27:25.920
I don't want to use dark for me is what I'm not what I was trying

580
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:27.119
to say before. suspenseful.

581
00:27:27.180 --> 00:27:28.200
Like, it's trying to be gripping.

582
00:27:28.259 --> 00:27:31.500
Really like, 0 my god, I can't breathe because, you know, almost

583
00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:33.119
got to happen. sort of thing.

584
00:27:33.180 --> 00:27:37.079
But I think one of the reasons why it is a bit of a disappointment

585
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:40.680
or at least the specials are a bit of a disappointment, is Nathan

586
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:43.740
what you were kind of suggesting, which is that we were, I sure we

587
00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:45.119
were promised more than...

588
00:27:45.180 --> 00:27:46.380
Yes, I've seen to remember that.

589
00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:48.119
Yeah, there were definitely at least one.

590
00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:51.660
It was supposed to be one at, you know, I mean, there's this and

591
00:27:51.660 --> 00:27:53.819
then like Waters of Mars is like November or something, isn't it?

592
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:55.440
Yeah, Halloween, right?

593
00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:56.940
Well, okay, right.

594
00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.640
I'm sure there was supposed to be at least one other, if not 2

595
00:27:59.640 --> 00:27:59.819
more.

596
00:27:59.880 --> 00:28:03.240
I would have loved to have seen 3 stories with Christina.

597
00:28:03.299 --> 00:28:07.980
That would have been nice to do 3 sort of things, beginning, middle

598
00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:11.279
and end, and then go dark and conclude.

599
00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:12.480
And we don't get that.

600
00:28:12.539 --> 00:28:14.099
So I can see where you're coming from.

601
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:15.900
Is it your favourite of these specials?

602
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:19.500
Favourite is such a difficult word when it comes to these specials

603
00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:21.599
but yes, no, it's not.

604
00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:22.619
Waters of Mars would be.

605
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:27.059
See, I'm recently watched one of us as Mars, and I think it's

606
00:28:27.059 --> 00:28:30.900
absolutely stunning, but it's absolutely relentless and awful in

607
00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:33.900
so many ways, whereas this was just so much joyous to watch.

608
00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:36.900
So there's there's 2 sides of the corner.

609
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:41.099
And I think that's why, you know, when you say, when we talk about

610
00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:45.059
the, the name special being problematic with these, to me, the

611
00:28:45.059 --> 00:28:50.880
word special fits this story more because it's an actual, it's a

612
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:53.400
it's more of a, it's a bit more celebrity.

613
00:28:53.460 --> 00:28:56.099
It might be an Easter, you know, it's not Christmas.

614
00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:59.579
There's not all that sort of, you know, like dressing around it

615
00:28:59.579 --> 00:29:01.500
but it fits the bill to me more.

616
00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:04.619
I expect a special to be kind of fun and jolly.

617
00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:08.519
I don't expect it to be, everybody dies, and then you save a

618
00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:08.940
character.

619
00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:10.799
And then she kills herself.

620
00:29:10.859 --> 00:29:12.420
Spoiler alert.

621
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:16.559
That's for another podcast I actually found the thing that struck

622
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:20.339
me most when I was rewatching this last night is the amount of

623
00:29:20.339 --> 00:29:22.619
audience reaction on screen.

624
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:27.299
The amount of times that the doctor is applauded or that some

625
00:29:27.299 --> 00:29:32.880
character is applauded for something, that there are surrogate

626
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:37.980
audience members like a, like a laugh track in a sitcom.

627
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:42.420
Because there is something sort of fun and celebratory about it.

628
00:29:42.539 --> 00:29:44.880
And I think that that's terribly fun.

629
00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:48.599
I think a flying bus comes through the wormhole and flies around

630
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:52.619
and knocks a stingray in the arse and everyone's applauding and I

631
00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:53.819
think that's really actually quite fun.

632
00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:56.759
But it is celebratory because it's the 200th story or something

633
00:29:56.759 --> 00:29:57.180
isn't it?

634
00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:58.680
That's the whole point of the 200 pounds.

635
00:29:58.740 --> 00:29:59.940
Depending on how you're counting.

636
00:30:00.900 --> 00:30:01.980
That's what I realised when watching it.

637
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:05.759
So yes, the 200 is a reference to the fact that this is supposed

638
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:07.380
to be Doctor Who's 200 story.

639
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:09.299
Depends how you count trial of a time Lord.

640
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:11.099
And charter, I imagine.

641
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:12.779
As always.

642
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:14.039
Mission to the unknown.

643
00:30:14.099 --> 00:30:20.099
And as a transport nerd, and as somebody who lived in London for a

644
00:30:20.099 --> 00:30:24.359
while, what really got to me was that the number 200 bus does not

645
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:26.039
go in anywhere near Victoria.

646
00:30:26.339 --> 00:30:28.319
Of course it doesn't.

647
00:30:28.859 --> 00:30:31.259
Halfway across the city.

648
00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:32.940
It goes through Wimbledon.

649
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:34.980
It's nowhere near Victoria.

650
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:38.099
Well, there is in the cafe at Curabili with that view of the opera

651
00:30:38.099 --> 00:30:39.839
house that Peter Capaldi sees.

652
00:30:39.900 --> 00:30:42.359
We learn to live with this kind of thing.

653
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:51.480
The other thing that we have, that is kind of an audience

654
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:55.259
identification thing, is that there's an explicit Doctor Who fan

655
00:30:55.259 --> 00:30:57.000
in the cast.

656
00:30:57.059 --> 00:31:01.980
Lee Evans playing Malcolm Taylor, who is an absolute Doctor Who

657
00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:02.579
fan.

658
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:06.299
And this is something that, again, Moffat will bring back with

659
00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:08.519
Ingrid Oliver's character in unit.

660
00:31:08.579 --> 00:31:12.299
But we have someone who has read all of the files and there is

661
00:31:12.299 --> 00:31:15.299
that gorgeous moment where the doctor says, oh, what's your

662
00:31:15.299 --> 00:31:15.599
favourite?

663
00:31:15.660 --> 00:31:17.099
Is it the giant robots?

664
00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:18.480
Yes, brilliant.

665
00:31:18.539 --> 00:31:19.019
Yes, yes.

666
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:24.299
And so I think that we, as the audience are sort of somehow

667
00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:26.579
present here or represented.

668
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:31.140
Yeah, I mean, it is breaking the 4th wall, like, like, um, what's

669
00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:33.960
his face and greatest show in the galaxy, you know, um, I'm sure

670
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:36.180
they're not as good as there used to be, but I'm still terribly

671
00:31:36.180 --> 00:31:38.339
interested, but, you know, there are lots of throwback.

672
00:31:38.460 --> 00:31:39.839
It is supposed to be a fan.

673
00:31:39.900 --> 00:31:41.279
It's supposed to be supposed to be one of us.

674
00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:47.640
I just think, though, that he's way too over the top goofy and in

675
00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:49.740
a way that Ingor Oliver isn't.

676
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:52.980
There's a bit of fan fun there without it.

677
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:58.259
I think I think this performance and the whole character is just

678
00:31:58.259 --> 00:31:59.579
it takes it off the reservation for me.

679
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:03.119
I think that he probably overplays it as well.

680
00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:07.980
And I think that's kind of excusable.

681
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:10.259
Um, but there are bits of it.

682
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:11.339
And certainly the I love you.

683
00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:15.180
I love you, I love you thing, like perhaps crosses the line for me

684
00:32:15.180 --> 00:32:15.900
a little bit.

685
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:19.859
Yeah, it's that that's over the top to do, whether it's the

686
00:32:19.859 --> 00:32:22.799
applauding, whether it's the brigadier substitute, having the same

687
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:23.460
sort of reaction.

688
00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:24.839
They're so in awe of the doctor.

689
00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:27.900
And it's all lovely and it's a choice.

690
00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:30.720
I'm not saying this is wrong from a story point of view, because

691
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:32.339
it's a choice of how are we going to do this?

692
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:34.380
Doctor's been around for decades unit.

693
00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:36.779
Of course, the people at unit are going to know who he is, one

694
00:32:36.779 --> 00:32:37.140
would think.

695
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:43.559
But I just find that it takes away the, the spontaneity, it all

696
00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:45.420
just feels like, oh, please give me a brag.

697
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:46.440
It's just too much.

698
00:32:46.500 --> 00:32:49.079
It's very interesting because when I 1st watched it.

699
00:32:49.140 --> 00:32:52.559
All these people were online praising his performance and how

700
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:55.380
wonderful it was and I could, I was just sitting there watching it

701
00:32:55.380 --> 00:32:57.000
going, this is so over the top.

702
00:32:57.059 --> 00:32:58.259
It is taking me out of it.

703
00:32:58.319 --> 00:32:59.279
It is just too much.

704
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:00.660
I do not like it.

705
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:04.859
Now, having watched it again, I can see why he's making these

706
00:33:04.859 --> 00:33:08.220
choices because the brigadier substitute.

707
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:13.920
Can we not curl her the brigadier substitute when she is so

708
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:15.299
incredibly great?

709
00:33:15.420 --> 00:33:17.579
She is just the brigadier.

710
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:21.960
We're not going to call her the brigadier substitute.

711
00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:24.180
Captain Arissa Magambo.

712
00:33:24.299 --> 00:33:28.680
Orissa Magumbo is phenomenal, but she has to be the dark to his

713
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:31.859
light in the scenes on earth because she's the one trying to stop

714
00:33:31.859 --> 00:33:33.779
the doctor coming through.

715
00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:37.319
And so he's got to be the ying to her yang.

716
00:33:37.380 --> 00:33:39.480
And so he, but I think he takes it too far.

717
00:33:39.539 --> 00:33:41.940
I still think he takes it too far, but I can see now having

718
00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:43.920
watched it again, where he's actually coming from.

719
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:47.940
I think she's utterly phenomenal.

720
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:51.420
After her performance last year.

721
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:54.720
And to come back for this, it's almost like if we'd had the full

722
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:59.220
series, we could have had unit with her, and it's such a shame

723
00:33:59.220 --> 00:34:03.180
moving forward that she does not appear again, and we decade

724
00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:06.660
Stuart, who, I'm sorry, is a bit of a wet fish at times for me.

725
00:34:06.779 --> 00:34:08.880
She's another one taking a sabbatical from acting.

726
00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:12.780
I would agree, but that's the story for another time.

727
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:17.159
I think this captain is the best captain throughout the entire new

728
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:19.619
series and it's such a shame that we never got to see more of

729
00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:19.860
her.

730
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.559
And it would have been great to see unit this year with the doctor

731
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:26.579
and Christina and a flying bus, get rid of Lee Evans, recast him

732
00:34:26.579 --> 00:34:29.159
with Ingrid Oliver, have the Nay Smiths in the background.

733
00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:31.500
I've got the whole series planned. finish.

734
00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:31.980
Call me now.

735
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:35.340
But I totally agree with you, Simon, that I think his performance

736
00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:35.820
is too much.

737
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.300
So, should we do it now?

738
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:42.000
Magumbo, Magumbo, Magumbo, there.

739
00:34:42.059 --> 00:34:42.900
It's a big finish series.

740
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:44.699
Oh, is that how it works?

741
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:46.800
Oh, I say it 3 times quickly.

742
00:34:46.860 --> 00:34:47.519
Right.

743
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:49.320
She, there's one moment.

744
00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:52.980
So she doesn't do much comedy and she is kind of the sort of

745
00:34:52.980 --> 00:34:55.739
serious character, but the moment where she's on the phone to the

746
00:34:55.739 --> 00:35:00.840
doctor and she salutes and he goes, did you salute?

747
00:35:00.900 --> 00:35:04.559
And she does such a fabulous comedy no.

748
00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:08.400
And it's a beautifully sort of sweet comedy reaction.

749
00:35:08.460 --> 00:35:13.199
And the other thing that I really like is she pulls the gun on

750
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:14.340
Malcolm.

751
00:35:14.340 --> 00:35:19.380
And Malcolm actually openly disobeys an order from a commanding

752
00:35:19.380 --> 00:35:20.039
officer.

753
00:35:20.099 --> 00:35:27.599
And when the doctor wins anyway, She is back on his side.

754
00:35:27.659 --> 00:35:31.139
She realises that he made the right decision and her call was

755
00:35:31.139 --> 00:35:31.380
wrong.

756
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:33.599
I have a slightly different take with that.

757
00:35:33.659 --> 00:35:37.260
I actually think that I love her reaction there.

758
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:38.699
I think it's very brigadier-ish.

759
00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:40.679
And I kind of think that you really needed to have another

760
00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:43.920
character in between, like another general person above her

761
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:47.039
telling her and Malcolm what to do.

762
00:35:47.099 --> 00:35:49.559
I just think it would have rung more true because I kind of feel

763
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:52.019
one moment she's just saying, no, shut it before he gets through

764
00:35:52.019 --> 00:35:55.380
and next moment she's smiling as if to say she's been on his side

765
00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:55.980
the whole time.

766
00:35:56.039 --> 00:35:58.980
And it's the one bit in the writing that I kind of get a little

767
00:35:58.980 --> 00:36:02.340
bit annoyed with the character through arc for her.

768
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:05.159
Yeah, I can do you understand what I'm saying?

769
00:36:05.219 --> 00:36:06.659
I can see what you're saying.

770
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:10.920
I think that's just an error in how it was not so much played, but

771
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:12.179
how it was put together.

772
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:14.639
Maybe the editing, maybe this, because, you know, there's the old

773
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:16.500
commanding officer thing. you know, they are there.

774
00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:18.900
She has to make the hard choices and that means at the end of the

775
00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:19.800
day, she has to do it.

776
00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:22.380
But, I mean, the whole thing is obviously set up to be, you know

777
00:36:22.380 --> 00:36:24.179
the demons, the other side of the heat barrier, right?

778
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:26.159
I mean, the whole thing's often quite transparent like that.

779
00:36:26.460 --> 00:36:30.780
And that's why I think, I mean, it's all, it's great to kind of

780
00:36:30.780 --> 00:36:32.039
reference the past and everything like that.

781
00:36:32.099 --> 00:36:34.980
But I think that's where they then take that and they take the

782
00:36:34.980 --> 00:36:37.980
eccentricities of what the brigade is doing and saying in the

783
00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:40.860
demons and what Osgood is saying and doing in the demons.

784
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:43.980
And everything's kind of magnified times 100 for this purpose.

785
00:36:44.039 --> 00:36:48.539
Yeah, but again, it's it's the sort of family special with, you

786
00:36:48.539 --> 00:36:50.820
know, an intended broad audience and stuff like that.

787
00:36:51.059 --> 00:36:56.579
So like I'm happy for it to be sort of magnified like that.

788
00:36:56.639 --> 00:37:02.400
And certainly, I think that she is absolutely spectacular in a

789
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:04.980
completely different context to turn left.

790
00:37:05.099 --> 00:37:08.159
She works wonderfully in turn left, which is perhaps one of the

791
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:11.280
bleakest Doctor Who episodes ever.

792
00:37:11.340 --> 00:37:15.659
And then she works in a really fun romp like this one.

793
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:19.260
Well, just compare her to those 2 Gormless fools back in that

794
00:37:19.260 --> 00:37:20.340
Santaran 2-parter.

795
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:23.760
Like, I mean, she's just so much better and I just wish that we

796
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:24.960
had had more of her.

797
00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:28.199
No, I agree, I think I think it's an unfortunate.

798
00:37:28.260 --> 00:37:31.920
That's why I wish that this was part one of two, not because we

799
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:34.139
see what happens to her next, but because I wanted to know more

800
00:37:34.139 --> 00:37:35.579
about what was going on during these moments.

801
00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:38.639
Except that that's the point.

802
00:37:38.699 --> 00:37:43.739
And I think the point of the end of this episode is that the

803
00:37:43.739 --> 00:37:48.420
doctor has been so hurt by what happened to Donna, which he's been

804
00:37:48.420 --> 00:37:51.539
reminded of in dialogue where Christina calls him Spaceman.

805
00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:55.800
He's been so hurt by what happened last year that he refuses to

806
00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:57.900
have a season of Doctor Who this year.

807
00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:01.199
And so there's an in story reason.

808
00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:08.159
There's a diagetic reason for not having a series 5 in 2009 is

809
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:12.059
that the doctor refuses to take Christina on board and so we can't

810
00:38:12.059 --> 00:38:12.840
have a series.

811
00:38:12.900 --> 00:38:15.420
And I really, really like that.

812
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:17.639
I think that's terribly cool.

813
00:38:17.699 --> 00:38:20.880
And the doctor seems horrible.

814
00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:22.920
I mean, you know, she's being arrested.

815
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:25.739
She's there saying, I want to have fun.

816
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:27.239
I want to do this all the time.

817
00:38:27.300 --> 00:38:31.800
I'm like you, we're perfect together, and we're denied that, and

818
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:33.719
that kind of hurts, and it should.

819
00:38:33.780 --> 00:38:37.139
It's kind of like the telly movie with Grace not going with a

820
00:38:37.139 --> 00:38:37.320
doctor.

821
00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:38.340
You come with me.

822
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:39.059
It's the same.

823
00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:42.480
There's not going to be a series of Doctor Who with Paul McGann

824
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:44.880
because, well, because Grace Holloway decides she's not going to

825
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:46.260
the doctor. her fault.

826
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:47.159
It's her fault.

827
00:38:47.219 --> 00:38:47.760
Thank goodness.

828
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:52.079
But, you know, Christina could never go with the doctor because

829
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:53.880
she kisses the doctor and everybody claps.

830
00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:57.659
It's a kiss of death the moment you kiss the doctor straight up.

831
00:39:00.900 --> 00:39:06.059
When I was watching it the 1st time, I imagined there was a kind

832
00:39:06.059 --> 00:39:12.119
of almost a haze code kind of thing going on when she arrives, you

833
00:39:12.119 --> 00:39:13.019
know, she wants to go with the doctor.

834
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:14.639
She was about to go with the doctor, but no, she can't do that

835
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:16.619
because she's going to be arrested because she is after all a

836
00:39:16.619 --> 00:39:19.260
criminal, which we kind of forget because she's so lovely.

837
00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:22.679
And so she's therefore not allowed to travel with the doctor.

838
00:39:22.739 --> 00:39:25.500
But then, of course, he then... to being a criminal as well.

839
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:27.059
Yes, and the whole thing's overturned anyway.

840
00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:28.559
He basically helps her escape.

841
00:39:28.619 --> 00:39:31.500
It's a lovely moment where you think, oh, the story's not going to

842
00:39:31.500 --> 00:39:34.980
let us have her travel because of that, because she's a criminal.

843
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:38.039
But then she gets to escape on a bus and have a big finish series

844
00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:38.579
so it's fine.

845
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:40.860
It's, I think that is wonderful too.

846
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:44.039
I am a little bit less convinced by the CG bus, and I don't think

847
00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:48.780
high definition does it very many favours, but let's be ambitious

848
00:39:48.780 --> 00:39:50.880
rather than cautious, I think.

849
00:39:50.940 --> 00:39:54.780
And I do think that that end is a perfect end.

850
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:58.320
And there's a real wrongness to him refusing to take her on

851
00:39:58.320 --> 00:39:58.679
board.

852
00:39:58.739 --> 00:40:02.340
There's a real wrongness to him allowing her to get arrested and

853
00:40:02.340 --> 00:40:07.380
it's uncomfortable and then it's very quickly overturned and it

854
00:40:07.380 --> 00:40:07.860
should be.

855
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:12.480
So speaking of that ending, the DI in the story.

856
00:40:12.659 --> 00:40:18.780
D.I. McMillan, um, is played by Adam James, who is one of David

857
00:40:18.780 --> 00:40:24.300
Turn's oldest friends, and his godfather was John Pertwee.

858
00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:25.500
Oh there we go.

859
00:40:26.099 --> 00:40:28.019
Is this a small one?

860
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:31.320
No, I was wondering, is it, is it because Tenant gets the lap of

861
00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:33.840
honour where he gets to have all these friends in, in the

862
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:34.739
childhood part of thing?

863
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:35.460
Possibly.

864
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:38.099
But, yeah, no, I just...

865
00:40:38.099 --> 00:40:39.179
Which is not very sweet.

866
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:39.780
I thought that was sweet.

867
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:45.179
But going back to your point about the CG bus and everything, this

868
00:40:45.179 --> 00:40:49.619
story is really strapped full time.

869
00:40:49.619 --> 00:40:54.000
I think they decided very late in the day that they were going to

870
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:57.360
film an HD and they didn't quite have the budget.

871
00:40:57.539 --> 00:41:01.199
And also they kept losing location days.

872
00:41:01.260 --> 00:41:06.119
So there was a sandstorm after they arrived in Dubai.

873
00:41:06.179 --> 00:41:08.460
So they lost a 3rd of the filming schedule.

874
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:14.760
And there was the stuff where the bus was destroyed in transit as

875
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:15.059
well.

876
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:18.780
So they lost time trying to deal with that as well.

877
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:21.659
This story is just under the pump the entire time.

878
00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:26.760
I think it's ambitious, but it doesn't quite make it because the

879
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:29.159
whole thing was made within a week of broadcast.

880
00:41:29.219 --> 00:41:31.800
Like they only...

881
00:41:31.860 --> 00:41:37.139
Yeah, like it was, and you know, that quite often happened in the

882
00:41:37.139 --> 00:41:40.139
new series, but not to the extent that it did with this one.

883
00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:45.000
I think all the filming in the sand looks fantastic, despite all

884
00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:46.380
of what you've just said.

885
00:41:46.500 --> 00:41:52.079
I think the ant aliens with their, and claw thing are a bit

886
00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:52.559
budget.

887
00:41:52.619 --> 00:41:57.480
But do you know what I love is actually, which is surprisingly

888
00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:00.780
unpretentious is when the doctor talks to them in the insect

889
00:42:00.780 --> 00:42:01.320
language.

890
00:42:01.380 --> 00:42:04.500
And I thought, well, actually, that was really well done and he

891
00:42:04.500 --> 00:42:05.400
didn't look like a Pratt doing it.

892
00:42:05.460 --> 00:42:06.239
Do you know what I mean?

893
00:42:06.300 --> 00:42:09.360
Because usually when they do that, like, you know, the eyebrows

894
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:11.039
and spearhead from space, it looks a bit dicky.

895
00:42:11.099 --> 00:42:13.559
Whereas this is looks actually really good.

896
00:42:13.619 --> 00:42:16.380
Well, I think it's clearly written with David Tendon in mind given

897
00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:21.119
his triumph with the Jadoon language, you know, at the end of the

898
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:22.079
last season.

899
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:25.199
I think they get him to do things that are verbal because he's, you

900
00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:26.760
know, incredibly skilled at that.

901
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:32.639
And I kind of think it's quite a good way of having sort of 2

902
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:34.739
characters that you don't, I don't know, you can just get Paul

903
00:42:34.739 --> 00:42:38.699
Casey and Rari Mears in, and you don't have to cast any actors and

904
00:42:38.699 --> 00:42:41.280
you know, just have them wear rubber heads and sort of gesticulate

905
00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:41.639
and stuff.

906
00:42:41.699 --> 00:42:45.780
And they can get, they can get killed off and eaten in it very

907
00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:49.860
quickly. very quickly and I think that's where the CGI stuff looks

908
00:42:49.860 --> 00:42:50.940
a little bit ropey there.

909
00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:53.460
And, and, but, you know, you get that whole sequence with

910
00:42:53.460 --> 00:42:56.699
Christina going down, you know, the big tube and the big red

911
00:42:56.699 --> 00:42:59.039
button, like it's always great to have David Tennant's story with

912
00:42:59.039 --> 00:42:59.760
a big red button.

913
00:42:59.820 --> 00:43:01.559
I think that is so great.

914
00:43:01.619 --> 00:43:04.739
And even though I had watched it like a week ago and then I

915
00:43:04.739 --> 00:43:08.579
watched it last night, I had forgotten that she is clever enough

916
00:43:08.579 --> 00:43:14.159
to press the big red button on the way back up to trap the sort of

917
00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:15.900
stingray down below.

918
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:19.920
And in fact, every single human character on that bus does a

919
00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:22.920
clever thing or contributes in some way.

920
00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:27.480
Even Angela, who's crying, knows that you can get through the unit

921
00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:31.920
phone tree menu by repeatedly pressing zero.

922
00:43:31.980 --> 00:43:35.820
Everyone contributes in some way to the solution and everyone kind

923
00:43:35.820 --> 00:43:37.679
of knows what's going on in a way.

924
00:43:37.739 --> 00:43:42.659
So there is something sort of rather fun about how incredibly

925
00:43:42.659 --> 00:43:47.280
competent she is and how sort of, you know, everyone else is a bit

926
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:49.920
helpless and a bit hopeless, but they're not completely useless

927
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:51.300
and I do kind of like that.

928
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:55.079
Well, the boys make themselves useful by digging the bus out.

929
00:43:55.139 --> 00:44:00.119
Yeah, no, no, but Barclay can fix the, you know, engine and stuff

930
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:00.420
like that.

931
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:02.519
But you know that what all that is a reference to.

932
00:44:02.579 --> 00:44:04.500
Flight of the Phoenix.

933
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:08.880
It's a book made into a film and then remade recently, and it's

934
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:12.059
well, a book about the plane crashes in the Sahara, and then one

935
00:44:12.059 --> 00:44:14.400
of the survivor says he's an airplane designer, and they can make

936
00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:17.400
a flyable plane out of the wreckage of the old plane, and that's

937
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:18.239
how they, with the survivor.

938
00:44:18.300 --> 00:44:20.340
So it's actually, it's pretty clear it's a direct reference to

939
00:44:20.340 --> 00:44:20.579
that.

940
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:26.940
Oh, no, and I think in the writer's tale, RTD admits to that. like

941
00:44:26.940 --> 00:44:28.079
that being inspiration.

942
00:44:28.139 --> 00:44:32.400
Yeah, as well as like Indiana Jones, the fly, obviously.

943
00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:38.460
And the relationship between the doctrine, Christina, is based on

944
00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:45.719
Sherard, the Carrie Grant, Audrey Hepburn film. where the 2

945
00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:49.380
characters are basically incredibly witty to each other and then

946
00:44:49.380 --> 00:44:50.280
have to run for their lives.

947
00:44:50.699 --> 00:44:52.440
Yes, okay.

948
00:44:52.500 --> 00:44:54.239
In most of modern Doctor Who.

949
00:44:54.300 --> 00:44:56.760
And they literally have to run from that spaceship back to the

950
00:44:56.760 --> 00:44:57.059
bus.

951
00:44:57.179 --> 00:44:58.679
I mean, through those sand dunes.

952
00:44:58.739 --> 00:45:00.719
I mean, how tough would that be?

953
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:03.599
I mean, we only see a little bit of it, but when it cut to that

954
00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:05.639
I'm thinking, 0 my goodness, that would just be horrendous.

955
00:45:05.699 --> 00:45:08.699
Hard on the calves. horrendous.

956
00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:10.559
I had they thought they'd been walking for half a day.

957
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:11.760
How did they get back so quickly?

958
00:45:11.820 --> 00:45:14.940
Well, there is a little bit about that, though, when they leave

959
00:45:14.940 --> 00:45:17.159
them to dig out the bus and do all that.

960
00:45:17.219 --> 00:45:20.519
And they go, well, you know, you people dig out the bus, but we're

961
00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:22.739
going to do something interesting and walk up to this dune. they're

962
00:45:22.739 --> 00:45:23.159
the posh people.

963
00:45:23.219 --> 00:45:24.179
They're the posh people, yes.

964
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:29.699
You know, and then at the end, the doctor sentences Nathan and

965
00:45:29.699 --> 00:45:33.119
Barclay to death by saying beat some privates in unit because we

966
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:35.099
know that they never survive, right?

967
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:36.360
red shirts.

968
00:45:36.420 --> 00:45:38.519
Oh, but these ones are going back to have chips and gravy or

969
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:39.000
whatever it is.

970
00:45:39.059 --> 00:45:40.260
So they will survive.

971
00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:45.900
There is that moment right at the very end where Lou and Carmen

972
00:45:45.900 --> 00:45:49.619
come to say goodbye to the doctor and the doctor screws up his

973
00:45:49.619 --> 00:45:52.559
face and does his worst, Dick Van Dyke accent goes, oh, chips and

974
00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:53.519
gravy, lovely.

975
00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:57.539
And that's all I've learned about you and it's really, it's super

976
00:45:57.539 --> 00:45:58.380
off-putting.

977
00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:02.699
And perhaps there's something deliberate about that because, of

978
00:46:02.699 --> 00:46:05.460
course, we get the prophecy.

979
00:46:05.699 --> 00:46:08.820
So that's her deliberately...

980
00:46:08.940 --> 00:46:11.760
I like to think that's her, okay, stop patronising me.

981
00:46:11.820 --> 00:46:12.960
You get it dicey.

982
00:46:13.019 --> 00:46:14.340
That's it That's it.

983
00:46:14.460 --> 00:46:17.099
How do we feel about our 3rd prophecy for in as many years?

984
00:46:17.219 --> 00:46:19.320
In many years, there's many weeks.

985
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:21.900
Like, I mean, so we had Yana, didn't we?

986
00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:25.260
We had, you are not alone, and then we had, everyone's gonna die

987
00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:28.920
saying all these stuff, but then we had, then we had the, the

988
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:32.159
point he made and we had the, what was the next?

989
00:46:32.219 --> 00:46:36.119
The woman in the, the blonde-headed woman in the um, to Donna, who

990
00:46:36.119 --> 00:46:37.860
wasn't the, at the shadow proclamation.

991
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:40.860
It's sort of like, this is now the trope that Russell T. Davies is

992
00:46:40.860 --> 00:46:44.340
everybody has got some sort of psychic ability, like low level

993
00:46:44.340 --> 00:46:46.320
psychability, like every other episode.

994
00:46:46.380 --> 00:46:48.360
Going back to Gwyneth.

995
00:46:48.420 --> 00:46:49.559
Yeah, I guess so.

996
00:46:49.619 --> 00:46:53.699
I think it's slightly problematic because it has to be like a

997
00:46:53.699 --> 00:46:57.059
black woman with a sort of, you know, West Indian accent.

998
00:46:57.119 --> 00:46:58.440
That's my problem.

999
00:46:58.500 --> 00:47:00.719
I was wondering whether that was going to be brought up because

1000
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:01.619
it's problematic.

1001
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:04.079
She's not, you know, she's quite clearly an immigrant.

1002
00:47:04.139 --> 00:47:05.400
She's, you know, West Indian.

1003
00:47:05.460 --> 00:47:07.199
It's that witch doctor sort of thing.

1004
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:13.500
It's the same with Chupo Chung in turn left where she's, you know

1005
00:47:13.500 --> 00:47:17.639
she's clearly foreign and she's a sort of soothsayer or fortune

1006
00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:18.480
teller or something.

1007
00:47:18.539 --> 00:47:20.039
And it is unfortunate.

1008
00:47:20.099 --> 00:47:23.280
And there is always this sort of weird tension between

1009
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:27.420
representation, and it's like, yes, you know, it's nice that we

1010
00:47:27.420 --> 00:47:29.579
have black characters, and then we have more than one set of black

1011
00:47:29.579 --> 00:47:33.539
characters on the bus, but one set has to be...

1012
00:47:33.539 --> 00:47:35.880
Yeah, it's...

1013
00:47:35.940 --> 00:47:40.019
Yes, but if she was Miss Hawthorne, you wouldn't, that night, you

1014
00:47:40.019 --> 00:47:43.440
could, she was kind of some kind of mystic sort of strange woman

1015
00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:44.340
from a country village.

1016
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:48.179
But having said that, all they needed to do was have her with a

1017
00:47:48.179 --> 00:47:52.380
more standard British accent rather than an English 2nd language

1018
00:47:52.380 --> 00:47:54.119
type accent, whatever it's supposed to be.

1019
00:47:54.179 --> 00:47:57.360
I think that's the thing that kind of maybe tips it over to the

1020
00:47:57.360 --> 00:47:59.280
edge, at least in the modern era, I think.

1021
00:47:59.340 --> 00:47:59.760
I think so too.

1022
00:47:59.820 --> 00:48:00.539
Yeah.

1023
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:02.159
But I do like them.

1024
00:48:02.219 --> 00:48:06.360
And I do, there's that moment where Lou talks about them winning

1025
00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:10.980
the lottery twice a week and Lady Christina sneers. you know, oh

1026
00:48:10.980 --> 00:48:12.000
you don't look very rich.

1027
00:48:12.059 --> 00:48:18.000
And then, and then she's kind of really properly abashed by his

1028
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:22.679
response where he says no, but we win £10 every, you know, twice a

1029
00:48:22.679 --> 00:48:25.739
week and she's kind of ashamed for being so horrible.

1030
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:28.380
So I do, I do like them a lot.

1031
00:48:28.440 --> 00:48:31.679
But like is another prophecy cheating?

1032
00:48:31.739 --> 00:48:35.039
The thing I have against the prophecy is not that we've had them

1033
00:48:35.039 --> 00:48:37.920
before in the show, but it's just that it's the beginning of the

1034
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:42.480
great long goodbye, which is irritating.

1035
00:48:42.539 --> 00:48:47.820
So, so you don't, so you don't want, he will not full times at

1036
00:48:47.820 --> 00:48:48.119
all.

1037
00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:53.400
See, I wouldn't mind it if it had been seeded a bit earlier.

1038
00:48:53.460 --> 00:48:55.079
Oh no, that would be worse.

1039
00:48:55.139 --> 00:48:59.460
I think if it's seeded, it's seeded at the end of Waters of Mars.

1040
00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:01.139
It's like...

1041
00:49:01.139 --> 00:49:03.300
But see, to me, that's useless because then it's like literally

1042
00:49:03.300 --> 00:49:04.139
the next episode.

1043
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:06.239
And so why bother even having it?

1044
00:49:06.300 --> 00:49:08.940
And so here I just kind of think it's been shoehorned in because

1045
00:49:08.940 --> 00:49:10.079
we need to have some sort of link.

1046
00:49:10.139 --> 00:49:14.219
I think that what it does do, like what it actually properly does

1047
00:49:14.219 --> 00:49:18.239
is foster audience engagement in the sense that we're wondering

1048
00:49:18.239 --> 00:49:22.500
what he will knock 4 times means, and it is brought up again, I

1049
00:49:22.500 --> 00:49:24.900
think, for us in the end of time.

1050
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:27.900
And I do think that it's a surprise when it comes.

1051
00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:29.519
Like we've kind of forgotten about it.

1052
00:49:29.579 --> 00:49:32.039
We'll get there, but we've kind of forgotten about it when he

1053
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:34.920
finally does knock 4 times and then we realise what it is.

1054
00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:37.980
And I think that's a good moment and maybe the prophecy is worth

1055
00:49:37.980 --> 00:49:38.280
that.

1056
00:49:38.340 --> 00:49:39.539
Okay.

1057
00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:42.840
So now in discussing with this with you.

1058
00:49:42.900 --> 00:49:45.840
Perhaps that is a point of view that I hadn't considered the fact

1059
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:48.539
that it does add some gravitas to the end of this episode.

1060
00:49:48.719 --> 00:49:50.099
Yeah.

1061
00:49:50.219 --> 00:49:54.300
I can see it from a publicity point of view that it's established

1062
00:49:54.300 --> 00:49:56.099
out there that Tennant is leaving.

1063
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:59.099
Let's sort of foreshadow it, et cetera, et cetera.

1064
00:49:59.159 --> 00:50:05.460
It's just, from my point of view, I'm kind of sick of the thing

1065
00:50:05.460 --> 00:50:08.579
that we've gotten into the habit of ever since even Colin Baker

1066
00:50:08.579 --> 00:50:11.460
where it's almost like the doctor spends his entire 1st season

1067
00:50:11.460 --> 00:50:15.420
having just regenerated and his entire last season about to

1068
00:50:15.420 --> 00:50:16.079
regenerate.

1069
00:50:16.139 --> 00:50:21.119
And when they're only doing 3 years or 3 seasons, it's kind of

1070
00:50:21.119 --> 00:50:22.980
like the whole thing becomes about regeneration.

1071
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:24.960
That's the only thing that I get a bit.

1072
00:50:25.019 --> 00:50:27.960
Oh, God, can we just be the doctor and then regenerate into the

1073
00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:28.199
next one?

1074
00:50:28.260 --> 00:50:35.039
I think, though, that regeneration is still super dodgy as a

1075
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:35.699
concept.

1076
00:50:35.699 --> 00:50:40.860
In the sense that had Eccleston not, you know, had his tantrum and

1077
00:50:40.860 --> 00:50:43.679
decided to leave, we probably wouldn't have had it.

1078
00:50:43.739 --> 00:50:46.619
Russell did say he doesn't want to talk about regeneration.

1079
00:50:46.679 --> 00:50:47.880
He doesn't want that to be a thing.

1080
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:50.400
He just kind of wants the cast to happen.

1081
00:50:50.460 --> 00:50:52.619
But then, of course, it has to happen.

1082
00:50:52.679 --> 00:50:55.500
But it's a super dodgy idea.

1083
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:57.539
The 1st time it happens.

1084
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:00.539
And it's kind of slightly crap.

1085
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:03.719
And and so you have to sell it to the audience.

1086
00:51:03.780 --> 00:51:08.519
And now you have David Tennant, who is by any standard, just an

1087
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:12.900
incredibly successful doctor, whom everyone is going to miss, and

1088
00:51:12.900 --> 00:51:16.199
whose departure the show might not survive.

1089
00:51:16.260 --> 00:51:19.739
And so I think you have to properly build up to her.

1090
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:25.380
So would you have preferred a recasting of somebody's hands

1091
00:51:25.380 --> 00:51:27.420
halfway through this?

1092
00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:28.260
No, no, no.

1093
00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:31.320
Look, I think regeneration is a thing, you know, some people say

1094
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:33.960
yes, it's the most genius idea that ever happened, and if no one

1095
00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:36.960
had come up with it, we wouldn't have the show now, but it's not

1096
00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:41.219
what gets decided at the end of the 10th planet in any sense.

1097
00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:44.099
It's just like, and now the role of the doctor will be played by

1098
00:51:44.099 --> 00:51:47.039
Patrick Troughton, and we're not going to explain it, and if you

1099
00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:49.500
want to know why, then you can just...

1100
00:51:49.500 --> 00:51:52.860
No, no, if I may say the reason why it's regarded as genius is

1101
00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:56.639
because then what they would have done is they would have cast

1102
00:51:56.639 --> 00:52:00.480
another old grey-haired man to basically play precisely the same

1103
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:00.840
role.

1104
00:52:00.900 --> 00:52:04.559
What they did, the genius was that they changed the character in

1105
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:05.039
the process.

1106
00:52:05.099 --> 00:52:06.599
And I think that's what people are talking.

1107
00:52:06.659 --> 00:52:09.420
Yeah, rather than rather than me in story mechanics of it.

1108
00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:10.800
You just cast a new person.

1109
00:52:10.860 --> 00:52:12.539
Yeah, entirely.

1110
00:52:12.599 --> 00:52:16.199
Yeah, because it allows you to completely retool the show every 3

1111
00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:18.179
or 4 or 5 or 7 years.

1112
00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:20.760
Yeah, and that refreshes it in a way.

1113
00:52:20.820 --> 00:52:21.539
Sure.

1114
00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:24.539
But I think that that's a given for us, but I don't think it's a

1115
00:52:24.539 --> 00:52:29.280
given that it works in a show in 2009. or whatever.

1116
00:52:29.340 --> 00:52:34.079
And so I do think that there's it's necessary to kind of shepherd

1117
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:34.679
the audience along.

1118
00:52:34.739 --> 00:52:38.760
I don't know about that because even when the show comes back in

1119
00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:39.599
2005.

1120
00:52:40.380 --> 00:52:44.940
Yes, they have to reeducate people or educate people as to what

1121
00:52:44.940 --> 00:52:49.260
the show is, but it's established that different actors or

1122
00:52:49.260 --> 00:52:51.000
actresses play the role of a doctor.

1123
00:52:51.059 --> 00:52:53.699
It's part of the thing.

1124
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:57.119
I know, but the question is, are people going to switch off after

1125
00:52:57.119 --> 00:52:57.719
it happens?

1126
00:52:57.780 --> 00:53:01.260
Not can they accept it as an in-story element, but are they going

1127
00:53:01.260 --> 00:53:01.739
to say?

1128
00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:03.360
don't care anymore Yeah, exactly.

1129
00:53:03.420 --> 00:53:03.960
Yeah.

1130
00:53:04.019 --> 00:53:07.559
And so I do think that kind of properly celebrating what tenant's

1131
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:07.800
done.

1132
00:53:07.860 --> 00:53:10.739
And to be fair, it's kind of 5 minutes at the end of this episode

1133
00:53:10.739 --> 00:53:13.320
and then it's that horrific two.

1134
00:53:13.380 --> 00:53:15.900
Well, it's not horrific, but that...

1135
00:53:15.900 --> 00:53:18.840
Interesting too, partner at the end of the year.

1136
00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:22.500
So, you know, like I'm prepared to give them that.

1137
00:53:22.559 --> 00:53:24.420
Maybe I'm changing my mind as we speak.

1138
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:26.760
I just felt that it came out of the blue.

1139
00:53:26.820 --> 00:53:31.800
And but I can see why you got to link these things and the

1140
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:37.320
audience to expect some sort of, I think there's an expectation of

1141
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:40.800
having some sort of linking to a season, right?

1142
00:53:40.860 --> 00:53:44.159
Or a series of things like this, and that's its tenuous link.

1143
00:53:44.219 --> 00:53:48.659
Um, I don't think there's a, there's not a win-win situation with

1144
00:53:48.659 --> 00:53:48.840
it.

1145
00:53:48.900 --> 00:53:52.199
Yeah, you know, there's positives and negatives for and against

1146
00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:52.500
it.

1147
00:53:57.300 --> 00:54:01.920
Just another cute unit thing is, along with the reference, the

1148
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:03.840
giant robot, is the, I don't believe it, guns that work.

1149
00:54:03.900 --> 00:54:04.860
Yeah.

1150
00:54:04.860 --> 00:54:07.800
It's just that beautiful.

1151
00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:10.380
I mean, it's almost like that battlefield reference where, you

1152
00:54:10.380 --> 00:54:13.139
know, he says a, you know, Teflon coached bullet or whatever it is

1153
00:54:13.139 --> 00:54:14.400
that'll go through a dalek, you know.

1154
00:54:14.519 --> 00:54:15.719
Finally, they...

1155
00:54:15.719 --> 00:54:18.780
I actually like to imagine Russell going, 0 my god.

1156
00:54:18.840 --> 00:54:22.619
So we're going to let 3 of the stingrays into London.

1157
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:26.880
What on earth am I going to do to solve that problem?

1158
00:54:26.940 --> 00:54:30.960
And then suddenly going, oh, wait, everyone has guns. you know

1159
00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:32.099
they could just shoot it.

1160
00:54:32.219 --> 00:54:37.440
For me, one of the most joyous things about this, and going back

1161
00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:40.800
to it being specialist, the fact that Christina's this thief, and

1162
00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:44.579
she's stolen this magnificent jewel, or this cup that is worth a

1163
00:54:44.579 --> 00:54:48.000
gazillion dollars, and then towards the end of the episode, you

1164
00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:50.219
know, the doctor takes it and she's saying, well, don't just, you

1165
00:54:50.219 --> 00:54:52.559
know, don't do anything to it, and then he just gets the hammer

1166
00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:56.699
and goes, whack, and the whole cup is just like, I just think

1167
00:54:56.699 --> 00:54:58.260
that's wonderful.

1168
00:54:58.320 --> 00:55:01.980
I agree, but isn't it great too, because it goes to that Doctor

1169
00:55:01.980 --> 00:55:05.579
Who thing of everything has its time, everything dies, and it's

1170
00:55:05.579 --> 00:55:09.179
okay for things to have a finite duration, because we know, we can

1171
00:55:09.179 --> 00:55:11.159
go back in time and still enjoy that duration.

1172
00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:13.199
We can go back and enjoy Charles Dickens. you know we can bring

1173
00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:13.980
him back to life.

1174
00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:17.219
And so it's almost like the doctor doesn't have the same view of

1175
00:55:17.219 --> 00:55:18.360
an antique object.

1176
00:55:18.420 --> 00:55:21.000
Even though in City of Death, he's worried about the Louis Can's

1177
00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:21.659
chair.

1178
00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:26.219
It's that thing that if it's this, we needed to survive bash, bash

1179
00:55:26.219 --> 00:55:26.519
bash.

1180
00:55:26.579 --> 00:55:27.539
That is hilarious, isn't it?

1181
00:55:27.659 --> 00:55:31.260
I think it's the back gold object is of less worth than all of the

1182
00:55:31.260 --> 00:55:31.980
people on the past.

1183
00:55:32.039 --> 00:55:32.460
Yes.

1184
00:55:32.460 --> 00:55:34.079
And that's obviously what's happening.

1185
00:55:34.139 --> 00:55:37.139
My favourite thing about that scene is the doctor starts to

1186
00:55:37.139 --> 00:55:38.639
describe, I need a metal.

1187
00:55:38.699 --> 00:55:42.360
It's malleable, it's ductile, and you kind of go, I see where this

1188
00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:42.780
is going.

1189
00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:44.460
You know, it's so terrific.

1190
00:55:44.519 --> 00:55:47.219
And even the little joke with Daniel Kaluya coming in with his

1191
00:55:47.219 --> 00:55:50.460
sort of fake watch and stuff, you know, offering his fake not

1192
00:55:50.460 --> 00:55:51.719
actually gold watch.

1193
00:55:51.780 --> 00:55:53.760
It's so cute.

1194
00:55:53.820 --> 00:55:55.079
He's terrific.

1195
00:55:55.139 --> 00:55:56.760
He'll go places, I think.

1196
00:56:05.880 --> 00:56:07.079
The story is very well made.

1197
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:08.880
There's lots of tension.

1198
00:56:08.940 --> 00:56:10.920
There's lovely choices of shots.

1199
00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:12.059
There's great dialogue.

1200
00:56:12.119 --> 00:56:15.960
But for me, where it's not as successful as it might have been.

1201
00:56:16.019 --> 00:56:17.880
It's completely linear.

1202
00:56:17.940 --> 00:56:20.880
The characters on the bus, as I've said before, they're just plot

1203
00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:21.360
cyphers.

1204
00:56:21.420 --> 00:56:24.059
They're there to dig the bus out and each of them provides their

1205
00:56:24.059 --> 00:56:25.380
own little way of doing that.

1206
00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:27.780
There's just no complexity in it.

1207
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:30.000
Now, perhaps the calls back to the earth could have been more

1208
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:30.780
meaningful.

1209
00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:32.880
Maybe something needed to be happening on Earth.

1210
00:56:32.940 --> 00:56:35.219
Maybe some of the stingray creatures had already made through

1211
00:56:35.219 --> 00:56:38.159
maybe just the one or 2 and there were these cries of people, oh

1212
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:40.619
my god, there's one of them's already gotten through, or someone

1213
00:56:40.619 --> 00:56:43.739
on earth who was sending out the signal, maybe even unwittingly.

1214
00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:47.820
To open up the wormhole and unit were already tracking that part

1215
00:56:47.820 --> 00:56:49.860
of the thing.

1216
00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:51.539
And that's how they got involved, right?

1217
00:56:51.719 --> 00:56:54.119
It's all monster menace.

1218
00:56:54.179 --> 00:56:55.320
Now that's fine.

1219
00:56:55.380 --> 00:56:58.139
But I can't recall any other stories.

1220
00:56:58.199 --> 00:57:01.739
Certainly no classic era stories where the threat is so completely

1221
00:57:01.739 --> 00:57:04.199
uncomplex and one dimensional.

1222
00:57:04.679 --> 00:57:08.280
And is that why I don't feel like watching it again?

1223
00:57:08.340 --> 00:57:09.239
I loved watching it.

1224
00:57:09.300 --> 00:57:12.179
I enjoyed it, but I didn't go, oh, I want to say that again.

1225
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:14.400
And it's not because it was bad, because it wasn't.

1226
00:57:14.460 --> 00:57:16.559
It's just because there's nothing else to it.

1227
00:57:16.619 --> 00:57:19.920
Now, when the universe was less than half its present size.

1228
00:57:19.980 --> 00:57:21.780
And there was no new who.

1229
00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:25.440
We dutifully read all the interviews in the production team where

1230
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:27.840
they would say, they had no money, so we had to come up with

1231
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:30.659
brilliant stories to engage the viewer without being able to rely

1232
00:57:30.659 --> 00:57:33.059
on Wizbang special effects to create a spectacle.

1233
00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:35.579
And we'd all nod sagely in agreement.

1234
00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:37.019
Yes, yes, Barry, you're absolutely right.

1235
00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:40.260
But I think they were right.

1236
00:57:40.320 --> 00:57:43.739
And I think Planet of the Dead does prove the point.

1237
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:46.079
When they were planning this one out, I think it's pretty obvious

1238
00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:48.059
that they sat down and said, right, we're going to make a really

1239
00:57:48.059 --> 00:57:50.579
gripping, suspenseful story that we'll have everyone on the edge

1240
00:57:50.579 --> 00:57:51.059
of their seats.

1241
00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:54.960
Now, because they could afford to make the episode properly, in

1242
00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:59.940
glorious HD, even if it was the HD came later, and go to Dubai and

1243
00:57:59.940 --> 00:58:00.360
all that.

1244
00:58:00.420 --> 00:58:03.059
I wonder if that's where that conversation ends.

1245
00:58:03.119 --> 00:58:06.659
Now contrast that with them sitting down and saying, hmm, we're

1246
00:58:06.659 --> 00:58:09.000
only going to be able to afford to make 3 of those stingrays, and

1247
00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:11.519
2 of them are going to look a bit dicey, and the bus is going to

1248
00:58:11.519 --> 00:58:13.139
be parked in a quarry and chroma.

1249
00:58:13.199 --> 00:58:18.539
Is that when they say, right, we need to find something else to

1250
00:58:18.539 --> 00:58:19.800
distract the viewer from that?

1251
00:58:19.860 --> 00:58:21.059
What else is there?

1252
00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:24.599
I mean, even compare this to new series stories like midnight

1253
00:58:24.599 --> 00:58:26.820
which I know is a completely different kind of story because it's

1254
00:58:26.820 --> 00:58:28.500
a close knit story.

1255
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:32.760
But you could argue that it's a similar setup with a voiceless

1256
00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:33.960
monster outside the bus.

1257
00:58:34.019 --> 00:58:35.760
But I think that really is gripping.

1258
00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:37.800
And it's not going for spectacle.

1259
00:58:37.860 --> 00:58:40.860
The characters were well formed, not just cyphers for the action.

1260
00:58:41.039 --> 00:58:45.420
One relies on the acting, and the other relies on the CGI in a

1261
00:58:45.420 --> 00:58:46.320
fabulous location.

1262
00:58:46.380 --> 00:58:49.920
And I think the best Doctor Who is always going to be the former

1263
00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:50.519
not the latter.

1264
00:58:50.579 --> 00:58:55.139
So I think the problem is that this is happening outside the

1265
00:58:55.139 --> 00:58:59.820
context of a season, and I don't think the Doctor Who's job is to

1266
00:58:59.820 --> 00:59:01.500
always do the same thing every week.

1267
00:59:01.559 --> 00:59:05.639
And I think it's absolutely in Doctor Who's remit to be

1268
00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:08.039
spectacular looking, right?

1269
00:59:08.940 --> 00:59:15.119
And so I think that in the context of a season, starting with

1270
00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:19.980
something uncomplicated, whose job is to introduce a bunch of

1271
00:59:19.980 --> 00:59:21.360
characters and relationships.

1272
00:59:21.420 --> 00:59:23.760
That's exactly what the show always does.

1273
00:59:23.820 --> 00:59:27.539
There's nothing particularly complex about Smith and Jones.

1274
00:59:27.599 --> 00:59:30.000
There's nothing particularly complex about what's going on in

1275
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:31.380
partners in crime.

1276
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:36.539
And so this is doing that, partly as a feint, but also because

1277
00:59:36.539 --> 00:59:38.760
it's one of the things that Doctor Who, I think, can legitimately

1278
00:59:38.760 --> 00:59:39.119
do.

1279
00:59:39.179 --> 00:59:43.739
But the thing that I think makes it disappointing for some people

1280
00:59:43.739 --> 00:59:47.460
is that it's not followed up next week by something else and

1281
00:59:47.460 --> 00:59:49.079
something of a different kind.

1282
00:59:49.139 --> 00:59:53.099
And that's why I think specials, in a way, are absolutely not the

1283
00:59:53.099 --> 00:59:54.599
natural fit for Doctor Who.

1284
00:59:54.659 --> 00:59:57.960
I think movies aren't the natural fit for Doctor Who, because the

1285
00:59:57.960 --> 01:00:01.739
job of Doctor Who is to do something this week that we didn't do

1286
01:00:01.739 --> 01:00:02.219
last week.

1287
01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:33.000
Well, that's all we have time for now.

1288
01:00:33.059 --> 01:00:36.659
We'll be back in the next few weeks to create a lot of unnecessary

1289
01:00:36.659 --> 01:00:40.920
work for the editors of space Wikipedia in the waters of Mars.

1290
01:00:41.099 --> 01:00:44.940
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1291
01:00:44.940 --> 01:00:47.340
and you can keep up with us at flights through entirety on

1292
01:00:47.340 --> 01:00:51.480
Facebook, at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, flights

1293
01:00:51.480 --> 01:00:54.239
through entirety.com, where you'll find links to our other

1294
01:00:54.239 --> 01:00:57.480
podcasts, Bondfinger, and Jody into Terror.

1295
01:00:57.780 --> 01:01:02.400
Until next time, always remember to floss and disinfect extremely

1296
01:01:02.400 --> 01:01:07.139
thoroughly, before and after making out with a Tritivore.

1297
01:01:07.260 --> 01:01:08.940
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1298
01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:09.780
Good night.

1299
01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:10.679
See you soon.

1300
01:01:10.739 --> 01:01:11.460
Bye for now.

1301
01:01:12.599 --> 01:01:16.320
That was Flight for Entirety, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan

1302
01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:18.360
Bottomley, Simon Moore, and James Selwood.

1303
01:01:18.420 --> 01:01:21.360
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane

1304
01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:22.619
Orberg.

1305
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:26.099
This episode, Big Finish Call Me Now, was recorded on the 4th of

1306
01:01:26.099 --> 01:01:29.340
September 2020 and released on the 20th of September.

1307
01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:35.519
As soon as intergalactic travel gets back to normal, why not

1308
01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:39.420
reward yourself with a relaxing holiday on San Helios, where you

1309
01:01:39.420 --> 01:01:43.380
can enjoy its sunny weather, its breathtaking vistas, and its long

1310
01:01:43.380 --> 01:01:45.840
prison sentences for homosexual activity.

1311
01:01:46.739 --> 01:01:48.659
Isn't that a good out?

1312
01:01:48.780 --> 01:01:50.099
I think that's probably good out.

1313
01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:51.659
I mean, I could go, I could.

1314
01:01:51.719 --> 01:01:53.280
Well, you can always edit together in different order.

1315
01:01:53.699 --> 01:01:56.340
I think you've both got valid points.

1316
01:01:56.400 --> 01:01:59.519
You know, I think if there had been something next week, maybe

1317
01:01:59.519 --> 01:02:02.579
they would have made different story decisions in this episode.

1318
01:02:02.639 --> 01:02:07.079
Perhaps as a reflection of the complexities and things that went

1319
01:02:07.079 --> 01:02:11.039
through last year, and the fact that Russell is probably exhausted

1320
01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:15.059
at the end of his time, that might be also a reason why the story

1321
01:02:15.059 --> 01:02:18.119
is quite linear in nature, you know?

1322
01:02:18.179 --> 01:02:23.219
So, I think there is all sorts of different reasons why it is what

1323
01:02:23.219 --> 01:02:26.400
it is, and I can understand why people would be disappointed with

1324
01:02:26.400 --> 01:02:29.820
that linear nature, but I can understand why it's been written

1325
01:02:29.820 --> 01:02:30.179
like this.

1326
01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:32.760
And I've enjoyed it so much more this time.

1327
01:02:33.239 --> 01:02:37.739
I just don't know why Simon thinks classic Doctor Who stories were

1328
01:02:37.739 --> 01:02:39.420
that complex, for God's sake.

1329
01:02:41.400 --> 01:02:42.000
I joking.

1330
01:02:42.059 --> 01:02:44.760
So, you know...

1331
01:02:44.760 --> 01:02:49.980
So, you know, I have to give this one an 8 out of 10.

1332
01:02:50.340 --> 01:02:52.079
I thought it was 7 out of 10.

1333
01:02:52.320 --> 01:02:53.760
No, we're 7 out of 10 originally.

1334
01:02:53.820 --> 01:02:55.320
Oh, I see, listen to the show.

1335
01:02:55.380 --> 01:02:57.119
We've talked, we've talked him up.

1336
01:02:57.179 --> 01:02:58.440
No, no, no.

1337
01:02:58.500 --> 01:02:59.760
I would have given it 7 before.

1338
01:02:59.820 --> 01:03:00.480
Right.

1339
01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:04.739
Yeah, like when I watched it again, I've revised my opinion and my

1340
01:03:04.739 --> 01:03:05.519
opinion has gone up.

1341
01:03:05.820 --> 01:03:08.159
On my opinion, it's certainly gone up.

1342
01:03:09.059 --> 01:03:13.440
It makes me wish there had been more stories with them and I think

1343
01:03:13.440 --> 01:03:15.659
that's a good thing to be left wanting more.

1344
01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:16.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1345
01:03:16.679 --> 01:03:19.079
No, CS Lewis said, there are 2 times to stop doing something

1346
01:03:19.079 --> 01:03:20.880
before everyone's sick of it.

1347
01:03:20.940 --> 01:03:22.019
And afterwards.

1348
01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:28.320
Oh, that was our tag, by the way.