WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:16:37

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Hello, dear Lister, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast with compelling science fiction

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reasons to stand around watching while your house burns down.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Pete.

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I'm Conrad Well, we're 40000000 miles away from home.

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Some of us are starting to get upsettingly moist, and it looks

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like only Doctor Who can save us now.

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So while we wait for him to get round to that.

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Let's discuss the 2nd Doctor Who special of 2009, The Waters of

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Mars.

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I just want to start off this story by saying that these specials

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are a personal affront to me, personally, because the year I moved

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to the bloody UK is the 1st year, we don't have a season of Doctor

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Who.

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Seven months.

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It's been 7 months since the last episode.

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That's the longest it's ever been since the hiatus.

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It's painful, anguish.

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Yeah, yeah.

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We talked last time, I think, about how we felt like we were

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promised a sort of fuller season of specials than we eventually

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got.

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Is that right?

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Does anyone else remember that?

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We were talking out, you know, incomplete ignorance last time?

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I remember reading that we nearly didn't get this one because of

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the financial crash, Woolworths stopping selling CD singles, and

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then going bankrupt, and so to entertain not being able to get

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extra money from Woolworths to top up the Doctor Who budget, like

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they had been doing, apparently, for like a few years running

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along.

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So that, yeah, the collapse of the CD singles market, nearly lost

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as another episode of Doctor Who.

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We nearly had Shada, part two.

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And that by now we'd be getting it re-released with puppets and

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things instead.

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But it made it.

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They made it somehow.

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What is that mysterious dripping sound?

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So is this the best Mars-based special of the 2009 series?

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think it might be.

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Yeah, I think he's got the edge.

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Yeah.

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Actually, actually, generally, this is this is the one people, if

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you have a conversation with people generally, You talk about the

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year of specials and everyone goes, oh, yeah, water's Mars was

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great and it does seem to come up as the champion of it.

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Is that was that accurate?

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Yeah, I remember at the time, it's funny, at the time I was, I was

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dating a non-Doctor Who fan, and I think, I think, um, I tried to

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show him Arc in space, um, because I was going to show him Cursor

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Fenrick, actually, and, um, he was German, and like a week before

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I was going to show him Cursor Fenrick, he got really annoyed with

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how obsessed with World War 2 British media was.

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So I'm like, oh, okay, not that one.

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So I showed him mark in space instead and he wasn't terribly

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impressed, but he was impressed by Waters of Mars.

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He's like, oh, you know, that was that was serious and good drama

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and nice dilemma and da da. said, do you want to watch it

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Christmas?

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No.

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You did say that and not.

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It'll all be over by Christmas.

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You didn't say that.

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That would be less good.

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And Nathan, can you go back and edit where we all gasped and

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tutted when Brendan said he was dating a non-fan?

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That would sound really judgemental, obviously, when it goes out

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outrageous.

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That's why that's why most of the series season was pulled when we

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heard, you know, you were dating somebody, you wasn't into it.

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We were like, no, no, no, no, you can't have them coming over here

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and taking our season. precious Doctor Who who rationed it.

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We're going totally against the international flavour of water's

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Mars now.

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Well, that is actually super striking this time.

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It is that sort of trout and era, moon-based style sort of

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international team of people only with ladies.

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Yeah, yeah, well, you know, um, Wheel in Space had Tanya Lernov

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and Gemma Corwin and Donald Sumter in a tanning booth.

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With one exception, this time they're not doing the accents. which

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is, although I thought, when I 1st watched it, I was like, what is

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it with this problem that Doctor Who has at the moment, whenever

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there's a young American emotions in it, their accents are

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completely unconvincing.

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And then I go and Google them and half the time it turns out they

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actually are American.

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And that really blew my mind because I thought I spent the whole

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of this watching, I think, in that accent that Roman's doing.

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It's not really American.

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Why couldn't they get a proper American?

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And then he says that, yeah, he's from Michigan.

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No, I know nothing.

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Yuri's accent seems to be genuine.

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Peter O'Brien, as we know from neighbours in the late 80s.

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I have to say on this rewatch, he's a lot less hot in this than I

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did think in 2009.

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And part of it is because for about the 1st half of the episode it

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looks like he's wearing a really bad toupee, but it's like, no

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that's just his hand.

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Yeah, that's Israel.

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Are they still getting into grips with HD and clothes and makeup?

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It's a bit brutal sometimes.

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David Tennant's got a sort of blue glow in some scenes that seems

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to actually be coming out of his skin rather than the lighting.

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I think Steffy drops the accent at some point.

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There's at least one sort of line that she shouts across the main

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room to the doctor and it's super kind of posh.

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It's not.

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Yeah.

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Well, I didn't realise until I was reading my Doctor Who, the

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complete history. afterwards that she's meant to be German.

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Same here.

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I straight up thought she was Swedish or Danish.

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I think the actress is German, so maybe they were asking her to

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picture it, but a bit less German.

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I know, but bit more German.

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It could be like that situation with the Terminator where Arnold

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Schwarzenegger offered to dub the Terminator himself in German.

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Ah, for the German market.

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And the German distributor says, no, he's Austrian.

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He sounds like a farmer.

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One of the things about this, I think, is that it manages to pull

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off the trick that the impossible planet pulls off by having a

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cast that you really get to know, I think, quite well.

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And, you know, not with gimmicks or anything like that, but just

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with, well, I guess part of the thing is this theme of home and

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family and children.

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And so we open, you know, with Adelaide talking to her daughter

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and the granddaughter who we will later find is so important, is

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actually on the call as well.

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And, you know, we see Yuri talking to his brother on a sort of old

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recording and stuff like that.

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And then when Steffy, um, you know, is about to be hit by the

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water, she turns on the screen and starts talking to her

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children.

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And so just by giving them family relationships, by having all of

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the characters call each other by their 1st names, and by sort of

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delineating relationships among all of the characters really

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really quickly, I think that this does, you know, the best job

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since the impossible planet of creating a crew that we're inclined

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to care about.

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Russell C.

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Davis is great at that.

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You know, just get sketching characters in, yeah, passing phone

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call or passing comment.

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He's he's a genius at that.

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There are glorious little titbits to be found.

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If you go, if you pause it on their screen bios.

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You know, when it'll fash it up on screen, their date of death

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which is a really nice dramatic thing anyway.

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But if you pause it, you find out amazing things like Mia was the

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1st person to successfully cultivate asparagus in Martian soil on

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Earth, and that's what got her place there.

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Every character should have something like that.

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The doctor is a Dr. Tarak is an Olympic medallist, et cetera, et

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cetera.

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I reckon Russell's written them.

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Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if I'm friend of the podcast.

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Joe Lidster has written it because he did a lot of the web content

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for Russell's era.

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Ah, yeah.

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Yeah, right.

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And it's lovely that in 100 years in the future.

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The BBC website has reverted nostalgically to a fairly similar

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template to the one it had in the early 2000s, including a click

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here for print version button, which, yeah, I paused it.

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Well, that's a 3D printer, you see by 2059.

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Yeah, you get to 3D print your own copy of Yuri. by just clicking

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on a simple link. perfect.

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If he can just up his game about the hilarious anecdotes from his

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brother.

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Is it of his brother and his husband?

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And he tells his story.

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I'm like, I'm really dying to know.

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And he tells the most boring story.

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I was like, he's like, oh, he's always spending money on things.

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I'm like, oh, okay.

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But, you know, that's good though.

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That is that kind of mundane, you know, everyday chat.

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It's also Russell sort of foregoing the chance to do a gag.

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Like, I can't imagine Stephen Moffatt writing a scene like that

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where there wasn't like an incredibly unexpected and hilarious

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gag.

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And Russell isn't going for the gag.

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He's just going for a kind of naturalism sort of thing.

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So, you know, yeah.

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And something that hit a bit different when I was watching that

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scene this time is you have a Russian man and his husband.

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Yeah.

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And I sort of thought back and I thought, hold on, you know, the

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sort of anti-gay crackdown in Russia, I know what's happening

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while I was living in the UK, but looking back in the years

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leading up to 2009 was when Moscow Pride started to be banned.

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Right.

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So, you know, Russell saying, look, in 60 years, we've casually

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got Russian men with husbands and, you know, they have money

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troubles, just like any other couple.

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There's Russell actually wrote the brothers full speech in English

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and then had it translated into Russian.

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And it turns out the way that Yuri's brother discovered it was

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because he was using the brothers account.

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He's like, hold on, where's this $400 come from?

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And this one, nothing, it's nothing.

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No, it's $400 and another.

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And that's apparently what he's saying in the court.

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I love the look on Maggie's face as she's lurching up behind him.

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She deserves all the awards for converted to monster acting that

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we've got going.

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She's clearly studied this very well and she's absolutely nailed

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it.

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And having her eyes not go quite as monstery as the others.

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It's mentioned as well, I think, that she's a bit more human than

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the others.

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So she's able to be a bit more conniving and calculating, whereas

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the others are more primal.

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And I love the way she goes for every shot.

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She's working in the camera.

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In earlier versions of the script.

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She was, she was speaking with the voice of the flood.

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But as the writing process went along, and this had a very

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tortured writing process.

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But as the writing process went along, they're like, actually, no

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let's not have them speak at all.

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Let's have them be completely otherworldly.

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Let's have them scream, which immediately makes me think of

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hemobores.

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Um, but yeah, Scream of Wars.

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But yeah, just make them so...

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Aliens that live on screams.

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We've not done that, have we?

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We've done the opposite, but we've not.

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Big finish, big finish, big finish.

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Commission recommissioned recommission.

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Yeah, that's got to have that's got to have Mel in it.

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And it's got to be called down.

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Don't scream.

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Whatever you do, don't scream.

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Yeah, it's the sort of the opposite of fury from the deep.

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Yeah.

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Do you think it's deliberate?

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There's the line in there, someone says, don't even drink.

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And that's that's a deliberate blink reference.

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What do we think of the monsters?

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We've already talked about Maggie's performance, but we get Andy

248
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and Tarik very quickly turned into sort of scary lumbering

249
00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:39.059
monsters.

250
00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:40.740
How do we think they work?

251
00:12:41.220 --> 00:12:45.899
It's really interesting. as I always say on any podcast I do.

252
00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:48.059
I'm basically indoct for the monsters.

253
00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:49.679
This is what I turn up for, really.

254
00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:51.360
And it's interesting.

255
00:12:51.419 --> 00:12:54.360
I mean, the reason Maggie, they actually had, you know, they wrote

256
00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:57.419
in that line of, oh, she's closer to human because she's this, that

257
00:12:57.419 --> 00:13:00.240
and the other, but um, it was a toning down thing because they

258
00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:04.200
would, they, There's a lot on this story and it keep coming up

259
00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:07.379
about just toning it down and raining it in, both in terms of the

260
00:13:07.379 --> 00:13:08.279
production and the story.

261
00:13:08.460 --> 00:13:11.639
And that was one thing that they were really unsure about.

262
00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:13.440
And Russell's is like, they're 2 like zombies.

263
00:13:13.500 --> 00:13:15.299
The white eyes are just too freaky.

264
00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:18.059
He was actually going to take all the white contacts out.

265
00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:21.299
But they'd already shot Andy and Tarik.

266
00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:23.879
So they did, but on on the close-ups for her, They just decided to

267
00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:27.779
remove the white contact and write a lineup.

268
00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:28.980
And they're terrifying.

269
00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:32.700
It did sound like a line that had been written up in order to get

270
00:13:32.700 --> 00:13:37.259
rid of contact lenses. like it did sort of sound. like that's what

271
00:13:37.259 --> 00:13:38.100
they were trying to do.

272
00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:40.320
And they're super effective.

273
00:13:40.379 --> 00:13:43.440
And I know initially they were talking CGI, you know, with some

274
00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:46.740
sort of like the abyss, you know, that kind of CGI water tentacle

275
00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:47.399
type vibe.

276
00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:50.519
And there was still talk of like full prosthetics, some sort of

277
00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:51.539
water troll or something.

278
00:13:51.659 --> 00:13:55.019
So they looked at various options and I think they, I mean, it's

279
00:13:55.019 --> 00:13:55.620
really effective.

280
00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:58.259
I mean, they're really horrible to look at.

281
00:13:58.320 --> 00:13:59.879
I think it's one of those things.

282
00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:02.580
It's just very hard for anyone to look at that and not go just

283
00:14:02.580 --> 00:14:03.840
sort of be slightly repulsed.

284
00:14:03.899 --> 00:14:04.860
They're terrifying.

285
00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:05.879
They're really really scary.

286
00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:07.799
And although they are slightly zombie-like.

287
00:14:07.860 --> 00:14:12.360
Those boys can run and, you know, full points to Elsa Burke for

288
00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:15.840
getting that run in unison and they're really, it's a really

289
00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:18.899
powerful when you see these runners who are really good at running

290
00:14:18.899 --> 00:14:22.259
and it looks like they're just a long tracks. their core is just

291
00:14:22.259 --> 00:14:23.460
like going on one straight line.

292
00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:26.159
They've absolutely got that run, fantastic.

293
00:14:26.220 --> 00:14:27.059
So they move really well.

294
00:14:27.179 --> 00:14:29.940
I think they're just super, super effective.

295
00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:36.000
I think too, that just having water pouring off them all the time

296
00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:38.519
and having them wet all the time.

297
00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:42.179
You know, it's not easy or straightforward to have sort of wet

298
00:14:42.179 --> 00:14:46.139
people and people who are sort of, you know, constantly wet.

299
00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:51.480
And so it's really kind of remarkable looking and it's just super

300
00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:52.200
simple.

301
00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:58.919
It's a little bit like, um, the way that, you know, the H2O scoop

302
00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:02.759
in in Smith and Jones, where it's just rain falling upwards.

303
00:15:02.820 --> 00:15:04.559
It's a very, very sort of simple thing.

304
00:15:04.620 --> 00:15:08.879
Um, I just think having them wet and having them just dripping

305
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:13.799
with water and pouring water sort of all the time is, you know

306
00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:16.019
really imaginative and effective as well.

307
00:15:16.259 --> 00:15:22.679
In the grand tradition of alien, which, of course, used, and we

308
00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:26.700
can say this because it was officially used in a movie, used KY

309
00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:31.559
jelly on the alien to make it look really sort of viscous and

310
00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:34.620
fluidy, this production, of course, uses hair gel.

311
00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:35.399
Oh really?

312
00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:40.620
That's how they sort of look sticky and glistening.

313
00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:41.580
Hair gel.

314
00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:43.919
Mike explains Peter O'Brien's hair.

315
00:15:43.980 --> 00:15:44.399
Okay.

316
00:15:44.460 --> 00:15:46.080
That's where the shell went.

317
00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:46.379
Okay.

318
00:15:46.980 --> 00:15:50.159
I want to attend doctor's greatest weaknesses, of course.

319
00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:52.919
But it's not trembling with emotion.

320
00:15:52.980 --> 00:15:56.399
Has to be said, his head does look astonishingly good at this.

321
00:15:57.539 --> 00:16:01.740
It does really look good and I'm not, yes, it's great.

322
00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:08.340
Andy is played by Alan Roscoe, who has been a long time monster

323
00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:11.220
performer in the RTD era all the way back to.

324
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:12.600
He was the lead auton.

325
00:16:12.659 --> 00:16:13.559
Oh wow.

326
00:16:13.620 --> 00:16:16.919
So it's kind of like if you've got a principal monster in these

327
00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:21.120
1st 4.5 years of new Doctor Who, it's Alan Ruscoe or Paul Casey

328
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:22.139
pretty much.

329
00:16:22.379 --> 00:16:27.120
And one, they knew he'd be able to put up with the prosthetics, but

330
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:29.340
two, they were also like, yeah, let's give him the speaking part.

331
00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:29.759
Go on.

332
00:16:29.820 --> 00:16:31.200
Well, they're nearing the end.

333
00:16:31.259 --> 00:16:32.700
There's not going to be much of a chance.

334
00:16:32.820 --> 00:16:36.000
This is like, this does have that real feel of being the last

335
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:40.620
proper normal episode before we go off into mad finale zone, I

336
00:16:40.620 --> 00:16:44.519
guess, because this could drop at any point, but as a story in its

337
00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:47.220
own structure, but it's like, yeah, getting a lot of the old gang

338
00:16:47.220 --> 00:16:49.200
back and getting Gray Harper to direct this.

339
00:16:49.259 --> 00:16:50.340
This is his last one, isn't it?

340
00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:51.419
So far.

341
00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:55.080
And um, having, I think Russell C.

342
00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:57.539
Davis has probably in the back of his mind had a, had a checklist

343
00:16:57.539 --> 00:17:00.659
all this time of all the, all this uh, Doctor Who formats he wants

344
00:17:00.659 --> 00:17:00.960
to do.

345
00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:03.539
And he finally decided to do a proper, pure historical.

346
00:17:03.539 --> 00:17:04.799
And that's what we've got here.

347
00:17:06.059 --> 00:17:09.839
It just happens to be, it's basically a remake of the massacre.

348
00:17:09.900 --> 00:17:11.819
If you just replace the water with Catholics.

349
00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:18.660
And sort of David Tennant is being Stephen Taylor, the actual lead

350
00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:19.859
character of the massacre.

351
00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:21.480
And yeah, there's not much else.

352
00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:24.599
And Adelaide is, no, she's not dodo.

353
00:17:24.660 --> 00:17:27.000
Okay, I haven't thought this through entirely.

354
00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:29.880
But it's just a bit of a vibe.

355
00:17:29.940 --> 00:17:32.279
Because he was never going to do a straightforward base

356
00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:32.880
understiege.

357
00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:34.319
You were just talking there.

358
00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:36.660
You've just unlocked a memory that's been lurking my head.

359
00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:38.460
I hadn't realised, I read it.

360
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:41.160
I was like, this rings a bell, and I remember, I went to a Doctor

361
00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:44.460
Who convention way back in, like, way back in the day, and I

362
00:17:44.460 --> 00:17:48.480
remember, there was a car, I was in a car, sorry, this is me

363
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:51.000
trying to piece together this memory and in the front.

364
00:17:51.059 --> 00:17:52.859
This is it's sort of show busy.

365
00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:56.640
In this car there was so Nicholas Courtney is in this car.

366
00:17:56.700 --> 00:17:59.160
He's not driving the car, but Nicholas Nick Courtney is in the

367
00:17:59.160 --> 00:17:59.339
car.

368
00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:01.079
So I'm in a car with Nick Courtney, so this is already a good

369
00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:01.319
story.

370
00:18:01.380 --> 00:18:07.319
And I'm next step, but also in the car is a girl from, I'm sorry, I

371
00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:07.920
don't know her name.

372
00:18:07.980 --> 00:18:13.319
She was in Doomsday for a Spitnikov playing, there's a flash to

373
00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:16.079
like Tokyo and everyone's crazy about the ghosts or something, and

374
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:19.019
there's a couple of girls, all sort of like schoolgirls, all

375
00:18:19.019 --> 00:18:21.000
giggling, saying, oh, the ghosts of the latest trend and all that

376
00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:21.240
stuff.

377
00:18:21.299 --> 00:18:23.579
She was at a convention not knowing what she was doing there.

378
00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:25.980
And I was sat next to Alan Russco and we were having this

379
00:18:25.980 --> 00:18:28.680
conversation and he was actually talking about, he'd done all

380
00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:31.619
these monsters and he was now just deciding whether it was time to

381
00:18:31.619 --> 00:18:35.220
just sort of say no to the monsters and just stick out for an

382
00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:35.700
acting part.

383
00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:36.900
So I'm really glad he got this.

384
00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:37.680
That was a lot.

385
00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:39.660
I think he was ushering it in a theatre at the time.

386
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:41.099
I'm sorry, this is scraps.

387
00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:42.000
This is like tape.

388
00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:46.079
This is tape this is tape unspooling from a sort of theatrical

389
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:47.819
riddled brain. so I'm so sorry.

390
00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:49.859
That's my story, Alan Ruscoe.

391
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:50.640
Good evening.

392
00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:51.000
Yeah.

393
00:18:51.059 --> 00:18:52.740
Still gazing at a pocket watch.

394
00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:53.940
This anecdote comes back to you.

395
00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:54.960
I'm sorry.

396
00:18:55.019 --> 00:18:56.460
Sorry, that was terrible.

397
00:18:56.519 --> 00:19:00.059
Feel free to cut that out, but I have nothing, but that's a nug.

398
00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:02.339
It's like a sort of showbiz furball.

399
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:03.660
I've just coughed up but there you go.

400
00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:08.819
I'm really, really glad that Alan got a chance to do that on Doc

401
00:19:08.819 --> 00:19:09.000
2.

402
00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:10.859
I think that's brilliant because he was looking at the time to do

403
00:19:10.859 --> 00:19:13.019
because he's, and I've got, I've read down a list because I said

404
00:19:13.019 --> 00:19:13.799
I'm obsessed with monsters.

405
00:19:13.859 --> 00:19:17.940
So he played autons, tree. one of those beautiful trees from the

406
00:19:17.940 --> 00:19:19.799
world, one of those beautiful monsters we ever saw.

407
00:19:19.859 --> 00:19:22.500
Slyhen, the Android, and Trini.

408
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:25.920
So I think maybe he may have been felt up by John Barrman's, there

409
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:26.700
may be a lawsuit.

410
00:19:28.259 --> 00:19:32.579
And a clown in Sarah Jane, and then finally Andy in the flood.

411
00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:34.740
So good old, so, you know, well done, Alan.

412
00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:37.740
And the monster performers really, you know, they just don't get

413
00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:38.460
enough credit.

414
00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:39.539
They're just superb.

415
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:41.880
And, you know, it must be galling to be on the screen all the time

416
00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:44.579
and hired so much and no one really recognises you, but the good

417
00:19:44.579 --> 00:19:46.380
thing about Doctor Who is that they do get to go.

418
00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:49.980
I'm stopping to walk up to me on monster dessert soon.

419
00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:50.700
I'll see you.

420
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:55.680
And in this one, they get some of the best monster effects as well

421
00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:56.700
with the BBC.

422
00:19:58.140 --> 00:20:00.660
Well you know, Trouton had the foam machine and like, but now

423
00:20:00.660 --> 00:20:02.819
we've got the BBC puke machine that they've been using on Little

424
00:20:02.819 --> 00:20:06.000
Britain for the vomiting old ladies to get, which I think is now

425
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:08.640
being, and if one thing, I wonder if there was a meeting where, you

426
00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:10.980
know, there's, okay, so we've got this water spurting out of

427
00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:11.220
them.

428
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:12.660
Should they do the noise?

429
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:14.279
Should they like?

430
00:20:14.700 --> 00:20:16.980
I think it's probably wise not to.

431
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:19.079
Yeah, I'll dispose.

432
00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:20.940
It would be a bit less mysterious.

433
00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:25.799
I adore the scene when they're on the roof and CG water is just

434
00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:27.599
sort of pouring out if they're open mouths.

435
00:20:27.660 --> 00:20:31.200
I think it's like not convincing for a second, but I absolutely do

436
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:31.799
not care.

437
00:20:31.859 --> 00:20:36.299
It's like it's like Doctor Who has moved to HD and we've got to

438
00:20:36.299 --> 00:20:39.299
have one special effect per episode where we haven't quite got

439
00:20:39.299 --> 00:20:40.079
back.

440
00:20:40.140 --> 00:20:45.420
So, you know, the bus cricket bat into the stingray last episode

441
00:20:45.420 --> 00:20:49.559
and then because I was watching one going, yeah, this is really

442
00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:50.700
great CG for the bass.

443
00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:51.539
Yeah, and this is great.

444
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:52.619
And oh, no, no.

445
00:20:52.859 --> 00:20:54.660
No, don't do that.

446
00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:55.200
Don't do that.

447
00:20:55.259 --> 00:20:57.900
It is incredible, CG for the bass.

448
00:20:57.960 --> 00:20:59.640
Oh my goodness, it looks great.

449
00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:01.500
Yeah, like so many beauty shots of that.

450
00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:02.099
Yeah.

451
00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:03.960
Especially the explosion.

452
00:21:04.019 --> 00:21:05.460
What about the robot?

453
00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:07.680
Gadget gadget.

454
00:21:07.740 --> 00:21:09.539
But it's sort of deliberately, isn't it?

455
00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:11.640
Like, it's meant to have been built by a teenager.

456
00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:13.680
He says he does it, yeah.

457
00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:18.000
It feels like it was going to be something that we're going to do

458
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:21.900
a bit more width because it's given a lot of buildup in the doctor

459
00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:25.319
saying he doesn't 1st of all, he says he doesn't like robots, but

460
00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:28.079
actually he's like, I don't like humans that design smart ass

461
00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:28.680
robots.

462
00:21:28.740 --> 00:21:31.859
But then he's like, 0 no, I still don't like comedy robots.

463
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:33.539
And then he's like, I love comedy robots.

464
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.000
And it's kind of like, I suppose...

465
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:40.619
I would have liked Gadget to somehow have a little personality

466
00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:42.599
because he's obviously meant to be Johnny 5.

467
00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:46.559
Russell T. Davies suggested him because he just seen Wally and

468
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:47.039
loved it.

469
00:21:47.099 --> 00:21:47.700
Right.

470
00:21:47.700 --> 00:21:52.200
So, but then again, you know, we're given no reason to believe

471
00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:57.240
Gadget has any personality or autonomy or whatever. is a little

472
00:21:57.240 --> 00:21:57.839
bit of a shame.

473
00:21:57.900 --> 00:22:01.920
I like, I mean, I like having a silly robot because otherwise this

474
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:04.019
is kind of alien or whatever.

475
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.740
Like for it to be Doctor Who, you know, we need a silly robot.

476
00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:11.640
And it doesn't shy away from using the silly robot to, you know

477
00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:15.000
twice get them out of trouble and in fact to kind of save the day

478
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:15.480
at the end.

479
00:22:15.539 --> 00:22:16.200
Yeah.

480
00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:21.059
And I have to say, Graham Harper's being a bit cheeky when he 1st

481
00:22:21.059 --> 00:22:24.660
uses Gadget to get him out of trouble because Tenant sort of

482
00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:29.160
crouches down out of shot and the next shot of Roman is shot from

483
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:32.039
pretty much between his legs looking up and him going, what?

484
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:34.920
It's really cheeky.

485
00:22:34.980 --> 00:22:38.819
And I refuse to believe Graham doesn't know what he's doing.

486
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:43.920
In terms of innuendo, not necessarily in terms of anything Graham

487
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:45.660
may or may not get up to in his private life.

488
00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:50.339
I'm also a massive fan of the trail of fire afterwards as well.

489
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:55.619
Like, it is absolutely cartoonish and absolutely different. not

490
00:22:55.619 --> 00:22:56.279
realistic science.

491
00:22:58.619 --> 00:23:02.880
Well, that's interesting because like I think like a lot of this

492
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:04.980
story, like the monsters, whatever, like it works.

493
00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:09.359
Russell said he wanted the robot to be funny, annoying, and Disney

494
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:11.640
and it's tick, tick, tick. absolutely is those things.

495
00:23:12.059 --> 00:23:15.900
And but I read a review after it was The Guardian, and they said

496
00:23:15.900 --> 00:23:18.599
oh, you know, the only thing I didn't like was that bloody robot

497
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:20.279
and it wrote quite an interesting thing.

498
00:23:20.339 --> 00:23:23.279
He said, maybe it was a bit of a relief for the children, but who

499
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:24.000
cares about them?

500
00:23:24.059 --> 00:23:25.680
It's not really for them. is it?

501
00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:27.119
And that's the end of the review.

502
00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:31.079
And it's it's kind of a good point, as in, it does what they

503
00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:31.980
intended to do.

504
00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:35.160
It's completely in place for Doctor Who, a ratly old robot, and he

505
00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:38.759
even refers to K9, but totally in this story, it does something

506
00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:39.240
about it.

507
00:23:39.539 --> 00:23:43.440
I don't know, like, it, there's a lot in this story that does

508
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:46.140
exactly what they wanted to do, but it still feels unsettling and

509
00:23:46.140 --> 00:23:50.579
there's a lot of, you know, do, there's a lot of tonal and

510
00:23:50.579 --> 00:23:54.059
thematic. contradictions in this story hugely.

511
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:57.839
But yeah, I sort of gadget sort of encapsulates what I feel about

512
00:23:57.839 --> 00:23:58.259
this story.

513
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:00.539
It completely does exactly what they want to do.

514
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.900
I just don't know if I like it, is that like it's the right choice

515
00:24:03.900 --> 00:24:06.240
but I don't kind of, Like it.

516
00:24:06.299 --> 00:24:06.660
It's weird.

517
00:24:07.019 --> 00:24:11.279
And coming back to it, it was less dark, just less visually dark

518
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:13.680
than I had remembered from when I when I watched it.

519
00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:17.339
The station is actually a really bright, and obviously there's the

520
00:24:17.339 --> 00:24:19.619
really dark themes building, and then we'll get to the ending when

521
00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:24.359
we get to it, of course, but at that point, the 1st scenes

522
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:26.640
establishing scenes where the doctor just arrives and announces

523
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:28.980
that he's the doctor and they pretty much, it is pretty much like

524
00:24:28.980 --> 00:24:30.420
oh, yeah, we're a base, we're under siege.

525
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:31.079
Your Doctor Who?

526
00:24:31.140 --> 00:24:31.319
Right.

527
00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:33.420
Yeah, you better stay here and help us even though he doesn't want

528
00:24:33.420 --> 00:24:33.660
to.

529
00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:36.779
It's like everyone apart from him wants him to be the doctor in a

530
00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:37.859
bass under siege story.

531
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:43.559
And that tension's there without it being made super dark and

532
00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:45.779
super gritty and no, this is a really dark one.

533
00:24:45.779 --> 00:24:50.940
So it's unsettling rather than being absolutely terrifying from

534
00:24:50.940 --> 00:24:51.900
the off, I thought.

535
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:52.920
Yeah.

536
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:57.839
Yeah, I mean, Russell said, um, said, uh, it's, there's, there's a

537
00:24:57.839 --> 00:24:59.880
lot of talk about it. story you can only do once.

538
00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:03.779
You know, he said it's like a like a total base under siege, but

539
00:25:03.779 --> 00:25:07.500
within that format, it's going absolutely mad.

540
00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:11.220
And he says, this story has a lot of, it says it put, this story

541
00:25:11.220 --> 00:25:14.460
has a lot of stresses and strains in it or, you know, which I

542
00:25:14.460 --> 00:25:16.859
think is, that's, that's really interesting.

543
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:17.759
And there is a lot.

544
00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:21.180
This story is barely managing to contain itself.

545
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:25.920
It's like it's got that weight of the series becoming about this

546
00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:28.619
one character's complete dominance.

547
00:25:28.619 --> 00:25:32.640
And how can this, how can the show cope when one character is as

548
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:35.460
dominant as that over the entire history of the show?

549
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:37.859
And his name's David Tennant, and he's playing the doctor.

550
00:25:37.859 --> 00:25:41.519
And the doctor is also the most powerful, and he's done what Tom

551
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:45.240
Baker never did and had a run of stories with no companion, because

552
00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:48.180
and, and, and at the time, that was annoying me so much.

553
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:50.400
And looking back, I'm like, okay, yeah, they were actually doing

554
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:51.839
that deliberately and playing with it.

555
00:25:51.900 --> 00:25:55.859
But at the time I was, I was, I was, why is this show about the

556
00:25:55.859 --> 00:25:57.299
awesomeness of the doctor now?

557
00:25:57.359 --> 00:25:58.140
I don't want that.

558
00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:00.359
But then, but then this does.

559
00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:01.440
Well, this sort of addresses it.

560
00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:05.819
And then next week doesn't, but it's right in the heart of this

561
00:26:05.819 --> 00:26:06.059
episode.

562
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:10.920
So, I mean, we've already had the show talking about what happens

563
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:14.640
when the doctor doesn't have a companion in that 2nd Christmas

564
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:15.359
special.

565
00:26:16.859 --> 00:26:19.200
So as early as that.

566
00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:24.720
And so this is the only, this story can only be done if there

567
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:29.460
isn't a companion, because you would have Donna sort of puncturing

568
00:26:29.460 --> 00:26:33.420
him or telling him what to do or telling him to rein it in or

569
00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:34.079
something like that.

570
00:26:34.140 --> 00:26:39.000
Or he would be embarrassed to behave like that in front of, you

571
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:41.460
know, Rose or Martha.

572
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.359
And I love the way Adelaide just isn't remotely impressed by his

573
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:49.140
shtick and doesn't even see it as her role to improve him in a way

574
00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:50.099
that Donna did.

575
00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:55.200
And I guess I wondered why they had that tension between Adelaide

576
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:59.519
and Ed, and like, which is touched on right in his last words, as

577
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:03.539
maybe having had, he says, you never could forgive me. is like, I

578
00:27:03.539 --> 00:27:07.619
think it's his last words, which is to just leave us to ponder.

579
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:11.579
But, um, you know, maybe he left her cat out or something when

580
00:27:11.579 --> 00:27:12.900
they when they were launching.

581
00:27:13.019 --> 00:27:17.640
Um, he, um, but she's clean and she's not impressed by flashy

582
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:18.420
guys.

583
00:27:18.420 --> 00:27:22.440
And so she's, and that sets her up as not being remotely, uh

584
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:24.779
impressed by the doctor's antics.

585
00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:27.480
And her performance, what I love about her performance in this is

586
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:31.259
the way that every scene, her disdain for him, just grows, oh, it

587
00:27:31.259 --> 00:27:33.599
starts out as wariness and then it becomes disdain.

588
00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:37.680
And, and so she, um, um, she's absolutely on a path to that final

589
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:40.500
scene, right from the beginning is, is Lindsay Duncan.

590
00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:44.940
And I think I know Helen Mirren was been put down as being the 1st

591
00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:45.240
choice.

592
00:27:45.299 --> 00:27:48.839
And that's why she's not Russian because Helen, is that I read

593
00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:51.839
that stuff because Helen Mirren was a Russian in 2010.

594
00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:54.180
They're like, oh, we better change this character and not have a

595
00:27:54.180 --> 00:27:56.759
Russian anymore. and then that just stayed even when they got

596
00:27:56.759 --> 00:27:57.660
Lindsay Duncan.

597
00:27:57.720 --> 00:28:00.420
But I couldn't imagine anyone doing it better than Lindsay Duncan

598
00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:00.599
does.

599
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:02.579
She's one of the best guest styles we've ever had.

600
00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:05.940
And I don't, I don't like, do people still debate whether she

601
00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:07.799
counts as a companion just because her name's in the credits?

602
00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:09.539
I mean, she's not.

603
00:28:09.660 --> 00:28:13.079
She's someone who the doctor fleetingly tries to screw up her

604
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:14.279
destiny and fails.

605
00:28:14.339 --> 00:28:16.799
That doesn't make her a companion, does it?

606
00:28:16.859 --> 00:28:17.400
Yeah.

607
00:28:17.460 --> 00:28:18.480
Asteroid's not a companion.

608
00:28:18.539 --> 00:28:20.519
Yeah, she doesn't take any of the boxes.

609
00:28:20.579 --> 00:28:22.500
Katerina is, but...

610
00:28:22.500 --> 00:28:25.680
She is absolutely incredible.

611
00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:29.400
And um, you know, I remember seeing her in Rome where she played

612
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:35.160
um, Brutus's mother, um, and she was amazing in that.

613
00:28:35.220 --> 00:28:39.059
And then she's in that black mirror episode where she's Rory

614
00:28:39.059 --> 00:28:41.759
Kinnear's kind of chief of staff or something.

615
00:28:41.819 --> 00:28:43.140
Yeah, you know.

616
00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:45.059
She's Rory Kinnears, Peter Capaldi.

617
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.839
Yeah, and she is absolutely superb in that as well.

618
00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:52.920
That's a deeply upsetting episode, but everyone's playing it so

619
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:57.359
incredibly straight and she's absolutely just marvellous in it.

620
00:28:57.480 --> 00:29:02.880
I hadn't seen Rome when this 1st was broadcast, but now having

621
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:06.779
seen Rome, when the doctor says to Adelaide, imagine you were in

622
00:29:06.779 --> 00:29:07.980
Pompeii, I laugh.

623
00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:19.980
It's quite extraordinary how that amazing sequence where the

624
00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:23.099
doctor's walking away from the base and the comms are still open.

625
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:28.500
And we've had earlier lines where basically the comms are open.

626
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:31.680
You know, they don't have private comms channels, so they have to

627
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:32.339
keep it clear.

628
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:36.000
But, you know, I find I found myself thinking, why is he still

629
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:36.480
listening?

630
00:29:36.539 --> 00:29:40.500
And then I remembered with a year before this, we've had silence

631
00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:42.660
in the library where it's like, can we just switch Mrs

632
00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:44.940
Evangelistra off and it's like, no, show some respect.

633
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:48.000
If you have left people to die, you are going to listen to their

634
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:48.599
last words.

635
00:29:48.660 --> 00:29:50.460
And I think that's the idea here.

636
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:56.519
And the extraordinary thing is, almost shot for shot, Daenerys

637
00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:00.240
Targaryen in the final episode of Game of Thrones, or 2nd last

638
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:04.859
episode, has a similar kind of moment of, I'm hearing this stuff

639
00:30:04.859 --> 00:30:05.819
and I'm saying no.

640
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:09.779
And that seems to be influenced by this.

641
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:13.380
I'd be interested to know, if anyone knows of any antecedents to

642
00:30:13.380 --> 00:30:17.759
this, where a character just kind of does the the no more thing

643
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:20.460
because, you know, as much as it gives tenant an opportunity to

644
00:30:20.460 --> 00:30:21.180
gnash his teeth.

645
00:30:21.900 --> 00:30:26.460
I can always appreciate that buildup with this version of the

646
00:30:26.460 --> 00:30:31.859
character who, you know, we see when Rose has her face stolen and

647
00:30:31.859 --> 00:30:36.720
when he's drowning the Raknors, that he's never actually far away

648
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:38.160
from going too far.

649
00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:43.559
And not having the companion here, he doesn't, usually it's the

650
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:45.839
companion who says, but why can't we change history and he turns

651
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:48.240
around and says, but well, the laws of time, et cetera, et

652
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:48.599
cetera.

653
00:30:48.660 --> 00:30:53.400
He doesn't, it's not that he doesn't have someone to, to say that

654
00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:53.819
to him.

655
00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:55.980
He's got no reason to say it.

656
00:30:56.039 --> 00:30:57.359
Yeah.

657
00:30:57.420 --> 00:31:01.440
So it's kind of like he's probably in his in his head.

658
00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:04.019
He's going, okay, this is the moment where I have to explain why I

659
00:31:04.019 --> 00:31:04.920
can't change.

660
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:07.500
There's no one here.

661
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:08.099
Why?

662
00:31:08.220 --> 00:31:09.779
Actually, you know what?

663
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:11.160
You know what?

664
00:31:11.220 --> 00:31:16.619
And that whole bit inside there reminds me of another thing from

665
00:31:16.619 --> 00:31:22.859
my childhood, um, there's an old anime called the genie family, um

666
00:31:22.859 --> 00:31:27.420
from, I think, the 60s or 70s, um, late 60s.

667
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:31.559
And when I was a kid, it was redubbed as a show called Bob in a

668
00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:31.920
Bottle.

669
00:31:31.980 --> 00:31:36.299
And it was about these genies and you have Bob, who was summoned

670
00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:40.319
by sneezing, and you had his daughter Yawna, who was summoned by

671
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:41.819
yawning.

672
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:44.519
They obviously ran out of names.

673
00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:48.779
How did you summon his father?

674
00:31:49.859 --> 00:31:52.680
I can't say because...

675
00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:58.740
But I remember the last episode because unlike, say, a lot of

676
00:31:58.740 --> 00:32:00.779
American or British animation.

677
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:02.880
Japanese animes would finish.

678
00:32:02.940 --> 00:32:04.319
They would have a last episode.

679
00:32:04.380 --> 00:32:07.019
And in the last episode, basically genies after they've been in

680
00:32:07.019 --> 00:32:09.420
service for a certain period of time, have to go back to the genie

681
00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:12.480
world for a 1000 years, but they can only do that if they're back

682
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:12.960
in their bottle.

683
00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:17.220
So his family, his human family that he lives with conspire, you

684
00:32:17.220 --> 00:32:19.259
know, we're not going to sneeze, we're not going to yawn over.

685
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:21.960
And these sort of Rube Goldberg things happen.

686
00:32:22.019 --> 00:32:24.599
Like time is influencing things around Bowie Base.

687
00:32:24.660 --> 00:32:27.960
This Rube Goldberg kind of stuff happens to make the father sneeze

688
00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:29.160
and to make the kid yawn.

689
00:32:29.220 --> 00:32:33.240
And the kid is screaming at the end, no comeback, come back, come

690
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:35.519
back as the bottle and his friends fly off.

691
00:32:35.579 --> 00:32:36.960
And that was the end of the show.

692
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:37.799
And I saw that at 10.

693
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:38.759
Wow.

694
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:41.579
And I was traumatised for weeks.

695
00:32:42.420 --> 00:32:47.640
And this creates the same feeling that time is kind of going, no

696
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:49.259
doctor, this is a terrible idea.

697
00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:49.799
Stop.

698
00:32:49.859 --> 00:32:51.180
And it's not time being cruel.

699
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:54.059
You know, it's time going.

700
00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:57.839
Actually, this is going to eventually lead to all this good things

701
00:32:57.839 --> 00:32:59.519
that you've already told us about.

702
00:32:59.579 --> 00:33:00.599
Stop screwing it up.

703
00:33:01.140 --> 00:33:05.940
So we come to the point which is the thing that I really seriously

704
00:33:05.940 --> 00:33:07.319
don't like about the episode.

705
00:33:07.380 --> 00:33:13.259
Um, and, and it's, it's really the reason why I planted the dead

706
00:33:13.259 --> 00:33:14.460
edges this one out for me.

707
00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:24.539
It is the fact that the doctor doesn't have a proper reason not to

708
00:33:24.539 --> 00:33:25.200
save these people.

709
00:33:25.259 --> 00:33:32.640
And the doctor is someone who has always disregarded rules and

710
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:36.900
prioritised people's welfare and safety over obedience to rules.

711
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:43.859
And there isn't really such a thing as a fixed point in time.

712
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:49.859
And so we have a made up science fiction moral principle and I

713
00:33:49.859 --> 00:33:54.960
find it impossible to identify in any way with the moral dilemma

714
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:57.420
that the doctor finds himself in.

715
00:33:57.539 --> 00:34:04.140
And so, and the fact that we don't have anyone to explain it to.

716
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:08.460
And so all we get are the pages from the BBC News website saying

717
00:34:08.460 --> 00:34:09.900
what will happen.

718
00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:16.320
Um, It just, it, It doesn't work for me, I think.

719
00:34:16.380 --> 00:34:21.420
And we talked about this in our Fires of Pompeii episode, that

720
00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:27.179
there is a problem with Doctor Who in history, and a thing that

721
00:34:27.179 --> 00:34:31.800
wrecks many, many historical stories is the fact that the doctor

722
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:33.659
can't change history.

723
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:36.900
And that's a terrible imposition which heaps of, you know

724
00:34:36.900 --> 00:34:40.320
producers have avoided in the past by just not doing historicals

725
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:41.340
or whatever.

726
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:45.719
So you have the doctor and he can't do anything.

727
00:34:45.780 --> 00:34:48.239
We're imposing that restriction.

728
00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:52.320
As you said before, Pete, we're imposing that restriction of

729
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:56.099
having a historical but setting it in the future and saying that

730
00:34:56.099 --> 00:35:00.239
this is something that the doctor can't change.

731
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:03.900
And it's not entirely clear to me whether whether it is just a

732
00:35:03.900 --> 00:35:07.739
moral constraint or it is a sort of time related constraint.

733
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:11.039
What you were saying before, Brendan, if the doctor tries.

734
00:35:11.099 --> 00:35:14.280
There's a line saying that if the doctor tries to change this, he

735
00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:18.539
ends up responsible for causing it to happen as happened in

736
00:35:18.539 --> 00:35:21.659
Pompeii, but that doesn't seem to be quite what happens here.

737
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:27.780
And so him agonising over that decision, just, it doesn't quite

738
00:35:27.780 --> 00:35:28.860
work for me, I think.

739
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:32.880
Oh, the show's always tried to have it both ways and particularly

740
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:35.579
in this era with the idea of some one week, someone will say

741
00:35:35.579 --> 00:35:37.860
there's no such thing as little people and everybody's important

742
00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:41.639
and then the next week it's, uh, oh, well, yeah. like in yeah, in

743
00:35:41.639 --> 00:35:44.880
Pfiz of Pompeii. why don't he save those people because Donna

744
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:47.159
cried to stop Donna crying.

745
00:35:47.219 --> 00:35:50.579
He didn't save their next door neighbours or the cleaners and it

746
00:35:50.579 --> 00:35:53.880
was like because she Yeah, that you, I guess it just doesn't, it

747
00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:57.840
won't work if we dig too, too deep into that or why he didn't just

748
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:00.840
take everyone from Bower Base and fly them off into space and let

749
00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:05.099
them run a space freezer centre together and just tell everyone.

750
00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:08.039
They could have gone to the planet Kolkakron and kept the gravis

751
00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:08.400
company.

752
00:36:08.460 --> 00:36:12.719
And yet, while viewing it, I find, I still find that more

753
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:17.460
satisfying than what we get than the, you know, the time mods are

754
00:36:17.460 --> 00:36:22.860
all hiding in a bottle, pretending to be dead and sort of work

755
00:36:22.860 --> 00:36:26.760
around the, the, um, that does, and everybody lives work around, I

756
00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:27.059
suppose.

757
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:27.539
Yeah.

758
00:36:27.539 --> 00:36:30.840
Maybe I was, I was, I was brutalised by Eric Saywood when I was a

759
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:31.619
when I was a...

760
00:36:31.619 --> 00:36:33.840
We all were.

761
00:36:37.380 --> 00:36:41.699
I think it comes in the fact that, you know, time travel is a

762
00:36:41.699 --> 00:36:45.360
paradox and so you're going to end up in a point where you do have

763
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:48.539
to gloss over it because it just doesn't, it just doesn't work.

764
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:50.400
You cannot think that too far.

765
00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:52.739
So I think I think it's just rooted in that.

766
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:57.239
And I think the program is now so popular and so successful that

767
00:36:57.239 --> 00:37:00.179
the actual production of the program and the story itself is

768
00:37:00.179 --> 00:37:05.340
becoming so married, as Pete said, David Tennant and the doctor is

769
00:37:05.340 --> 00:37:09.119
hard to distinguish either of them now, who we're celebrating and

770
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:09.599
worshipping.

771
00:37:10.380 --> 00:37:12.239
And so...

772
00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:15.780
Basically, he should have regenerated the end of Journey's end.

773
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:17.219
That was the end of the 10th doctor.

774
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:19.079
It's the best ending. could possibly have.

775
00:37:19.139 --> 00:37:20.820
So we're on borrowed time.

776
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:23.519
So we've already pushed way beyond.

777
00:37:23.579 --> 00:37:26.820
We've sort of stepped outside the program and we're stretching it

778
00:37:26.820 --> 00:37:27.239
and pushing it.

779
00:37:27.300 --> 00:37:29.400
And Russell did say, you know, this program has stresses and

780
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:29.760
strange.

781
00:37:29.820 --> 00:37:31.500
It pushes and it tests you.

782
00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:36.239
So this is a program about, Too much of a good thing. and going

783
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:38.880
too far and the program itself has gone too fast.

784
00:37:38.940 --> 00:37:40.500
So this story has gone way too far.

785
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:42.239
He shouldn't even be here. should have regenerated.

786
00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:46.800
So it is pushing that that paradox thing we normally gloss over by

787
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:48.059
either fix or flux.

788
00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:49.920
We've now kind of pushed beyond that.

789
00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:51.840
So yeah, everything in it.

790
00:37:51.900 --> 00:37:55.800
It's like this story does everything they wanted it to do.

791
00:37:55.860 --> 00:37:57.420
It's just like, should they have done it?

792
00:37:57.420 --> 00:37:58.800
is sort of the question.

793
00:37:58.860 --> 00:38:01.619
And even, and it's seeded right throughout the story.

794
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:03.300
I mean, the whole story is waters on Mars.

795
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:06.239
It's about humanity trying to find water.

796
00:38:06.300 --> 00:38:07.559
Well, you got it.

797
00:38:07.619 --> 00:38:10.079
You found water, your cup runneth over.

798
00:38:10.139 --> 00:38:13.079
You know, it's just like, it says, yeah, too much of a good thing

799
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:17.699
and it's, it's, every level of this story is just about going too

800
00:38:17.699 --> 00:38:18.059
far.

801
00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:22.920
And it's a really successful, I think, an accurate, uh, well-built

802
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:26.219
intentional story of what happens when you go too far, whether you

803
00:38:26.219 --> 00:38:29.699
go too far in a monster effect, or, you know, all of these

804
00:38:29.699 --> 00:38:30.000
things.

805
00:38:30.059 --> 00:38:32.940
And just the question is whether you should or shouldn't.

806
00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:35.940
And it's really clever because actually that's, you know, the form

807
00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:39.599
and content marry up to this philosophical question of like, should

808
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:41.699
you go, how much of a good thing should you have?

809
00:38:41.820 --> 00:38:44.400
Um, So I think that's why it breaks.

810
00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:48.420
I think it's, you like, so I can see why you don't like it.

811
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:50.699
So you're like, no, no, no, this has just gone too far and it's

812
00:38:50.699 --> 00:38:51.840
like, yeah, that's what they were doing.

813
00:38:52.019 --> 00:38:54.179
Is that a good thing or not?

814
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:55.500
Should they have done?

815
00:38:55.619 --> 00:38:56.159
Do they have the right?

816
00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:02.039
But I also I also sort of expect Russell to create a sort of moral

817
00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:04.559
dilemma that I can in some way sympathise with, you know?

818
00:39:04.619 --> 00:39:09.659
You know the end of Journey's End where Rose gets dumped back in

819
00:39:09.659 --> 00:39:15.539
her parallel universe with a cloned copy of her soulmate and

820
00:39:15.539 --> 00:39:16.500
heart's desire?

821
00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:20.579
And you kind of think, I have literally no way of knowing how to

822
00:39:20.579 --> 00:39:21.659
feel about this.

823
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:22.559
You know what I mean?

824
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:23.760
Like, I don't know.

825
00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:24.539
Why is that good?

826
00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:26.159
It's impossible to tell.

827
00:39:26.219 --> 00:39:27.059
Do you know what I mean?

828
00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:30.420
And I think I think even Russell himself in the writer's Tale

829
00:39:30.420 --> 00:39:33.539
might say something about his sort of dissatisfaction with that.

830
00:39:34.260 --> 00:39:40.260
Here, it's kind of like, I don't know what the analogue is.

831
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:41.280
Do you know what I mean?

832
00:39:41.340 --> 00:39:44.099
Shouldn't I really be rooting for the doctor to just say, oh, you

833
00:39:44.099 --> 00:39:47.579
know, screw it, I'm saving these people, you know, whatever.

834
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:50.760
It's kind of his Tom, it's his Tom Baker with holding the key to

835
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:51.780
time moment, isn't it?

836
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:52.440
Maybe.

837
00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:55.320
Uh, that's what it reminds me of.

838
00:39:55.320 --> 00:39:59.099
The, um, there's that split 2nd where Tom does his goofy face and

839
00:39:59.099 --> 00:40:00.840
says he could rule the entire universe.

840
00:40:00.900 --> 00:40:04.139
So actually maybe we shouldn't have bothered having this season at

841
00:40:04.139 --> 00:40:04.320
all.

842
00:40:06.780 --> 00:40:09.599
But there's an arc.

843
00:40:09.659 --> 00:40:12.780
But he's going to go around saving people he's not allowed to

844
00:40:12.780 --> 00:40:13.079
save.

845
00:40:13.139 --> 00:40:13.920
Do you know what I mean?

846
00:40:13.980 --> 00:40:16.260
That doesn't seem all that threatening or out of control.

847
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:19.380
And it's certainly basically what he does every story.

848
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:22.920
But he's got the added pressure now of some random woman on a bus

849
00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:24.360
telling him someone would knock 4 times.

850
00:40:24.420 --> 00:40:25.800
That would freak me out.

851
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:37.980
I mean, I also think for a long-term viewer seeing this, we're

852
00:40:37.980 --> 00:40:41.460
invited to empathise with Adelaide.

853
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:45.300
So when, you know, the doctor is controlling gadget and and, and

854
00:40:45.300 --> 00:40:47.940
again, showing his teeth and what have you.

855
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:51.840
And we're kind of getting Murraygold's triumph music playing, but

856
00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:56.039
then we cut to Lindsay Duncan, just shaking her head, going, no.

857
00:40:56.099 --> 00:40:59.639
So that it's for, you know, for once it's not Marigold's music

858
00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:00.539
telling us how to feel.

859
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:03.300
It's an actual performance telling us how to play.

860
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:06.780
But I think the other thing for a long-term viewer is way back in

861
00:41:06.780 --> 00:41:11.820
series one, when Rose saves Pete from the car, she actually says

862
00:41:11.820 --> 00:41:15.239
to the doctor, so it's okay when we go to other times and places

863
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:18.179
and save people, but not when it's me saving my dad.

864
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:24.659
And this is kind of a further comment on that conversation and to

865
00:41:24.659 --> 00:41:29.639
kind of show us the consequences of that because When Pete is

866
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:32.940
saved and he's not meant to be saved, he sacrifices himself for

867
00:41:32.940 --> 00:41:33.780
the greater good.

868
00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:38.280
In a more tangible way than we see Adelaide here because, you know

869
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:40.800
there's no immediate threat to Adelaide's survival.

870
00:41:40.860 --> 00:41:44.940
The threat is 50 years down the line when her daughter does or

871
00:41:44.940 --> 00:41:50.219
does not take, you know, the Enterprise NXO one on a mission and

872
00:41:50.219 --> 00:41:51.000
hit the Zin deal.

873
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:54.780
Sorry, watch lower deck one.

874
00:41:55.980 --> 00:42:02.940
But to me, and I think it's because I'm a bit more canon obsessed

875
00:42:02.940 --> 00:42:03.900
than you are, Nathan.

876
00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:09.239
I do enjoy the moral dilemma here and I can buy into it.

877
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:13.739
But it makes me kind of feel this story the way I feel about, 1st

878
00:42:13.739 --> 00:42:15.360
of all, the caves of Andrazani.

879
00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:19.440
And it's, it's, and as Russell says about this, you can't do this

880
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:19.920
every week.

881
00:42:19.980 --> 00:42:22.619
No, you could not have this story every week.

882
00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:24.000
It would be too bleak and too depressing.

883
00:42:24.059 --> 00:42:27.300
The other thing that makes me think of is earth shock because a

884
00:42:27.300 --> 00:42:30.300
lot of this story doesn't really make sense on a 2nd viewing.

885
00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:35.340
You know, it's kind of like the rocket blows up and Maggie goes

886
00:42:35.340 --> 00:42:38.820
and screams at the iceberg and it starts breaking up as well.

887
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:41.159
And it's like, okay, so what's the plan here now, you've lost the

888
00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:41.760
rocket, actually?

889
00:42:41.820 --> 00:42:45.539
Like, I don't care. love that scene.

890
00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:47.579
Don't get me wrong.

891
00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:49.019
But this is the thing.

892
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:54.059
On 1st viewing, I'm like, yeah, yeah, scream at that ice and break

893
00:42:54.059 --> 00:42:54.360
it.

894
00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:55.079
Okay.

895
00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:58.980
But yeah, this time around, we were all hoping for a little green

896
00:42:58.980 --> 00:43:00.420
claw to come out, weren't we?

897
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:02.219
green pincer.

898
00:43:03.420 --> 00:43:07.440
Actually, yeah, there is that there is kind of that scene earlier

899
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:10.260
where it's like the doctor saying, you know, there used to be

900
00:43:10.260 --> 00:43:11.219
Martians here, did they?

901
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:12.059
Are we going to see them?

902
00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:12.300
No.

903
00:43:13.260 --> 00:43:15.420
Give it a few years.

904
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:17.039
Give it a few years.

905
00:43:17.099 --> 00:43:18.000
Gatus will bring them back.

906
00:43:18.059 --> 00:43:22.980
I love the flashback to Adelaide as a child looking at the Dalek.

907
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:25.559
Yes, which is kind of, I think, reconditioned and lifted from

908
00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:27.300
Battlestar Galactica.

909
00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:31.139
Not a child element, but without wanting to spoil a Battlestar

910
00:43:31.139 --> 00:43:31.679
Galactica.

911
00:43:31.739 --> 00:43:34.619
There a bit in Battles, I go back to where someone looks something

912
00:43:34.619 --> 00:43:36.900
that's about to kill them in the eye and then it goes away and it

913
00:43:36.900 --> 00:43:40.199
turns out to be their destiny. being the factor.

914
00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:45.780
And watching that now, I think, oh, for a kid who had watched, all

915
00:43:45.780 --> 00:43:47.699
right, it wasn't actually, it wasn't all that long ago.

916
00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:49.980
But if you were a kid who'd watched Journey's End.

917
00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:52.380
And then a little while later, you're watching this.

918
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:55.860
It's uh, it must be, it must have sort of put them in her shoes of

919
00:43:55.860 --> 00:43:58.559
flashing back to that story from, from the, from the previous

920
00:43:58.559 --> 00:43:59.639
season.

921
00:43:59.699 --> 00:44:01.559
But I just really like that.

922
00:44:01.739 --> 00:44:07.019
I think too, the fact that it's set only 50 years in the future

923
00:44:07.019 --> 00:44:12.780
when the kid who you're talking about, Pete, can still expect to

924
00:44:12.780 --> 00:44:13.619
be alive.

925
00:44:13.739 --> 00:44:18.119
I think that's that's actually really terribly cool.

926
00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:25.139
And so one of the things that does work for me is linking what's

927
00:44:25.139 --> 00:44:27.840
happening here to what happens to the future of humanity.

928
00:44:27.900 --> 00:44:29.940
You know, like I don't care about cannon, whatever.

929
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.559
But I love the idea that, you know, we start with Bowie base one

930
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:38.400
and then a couple of generations down the line, we're doing light

931
00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:41.579
speed and then we're heading out into the galaxy and it gives

932
00:44:41.579 --> 00:44:45.900
Russell a chance to put his Russell spin on that, that that is the

933
00:44:45.900 --> 00:44:51.119
result of, um, you know, human ingenuity and people being inspired

934
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:52.800
and all sorts of things like that.

935
00:44:52.860 --> 00:44:56.940
And that an extraordinary woman who's so obviously an

936
00:44:56.940 --> 00:45:01.079
extraordinary person, when we see her in action, that she's kind

937
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:02.880
of the start of all that.

938
00:45:02.940 --> 00:45:05.340
That's it's really interesting.

939
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:08.880
I think it depends on what you think about humanity, whether

940
00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:09.960
that's a good thing or not.

941
00:45:10.019 --> 00:45:13.800
Like, I personally think, you know, this, okay, here we go.

942
00:45:13.860 --> 00:45:17.400
But, I mean, actually, pro or anti, non-balance.

943
00:45:17.460 --> 00:45:21.539
Well, frankly, Amanti, I actually think the real, you know, this

944
00:45:21.539 --> 00:45:24.360
race, you know, obviously the earth is getting is, you know, we've

945
00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:27.780
we've destroyed that and it's now sort of the race against time.

946
00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:30.659
It's, oh, can we colonise other planets?

947
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:33.960
You know, can we make life sustainable so humans can go on?

948
00:45:34.019 --> 00:45:35.639
And I sort of think the race is the other way.

949
00:45:35.699 --> 00:45:39.239
I just think, come on, it's time, like Earth has had its time, most

950
00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:40.739
people, we people have had our time.

951
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:43.019
I think the worst thing that happened is that we go spreading it

952
00:45:43.019 --> 00:45:44.099
spreading out everywhere.

953
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:46.559
And it's touched on in this. is like, you know, she she refers to

954
00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:50.460
the Adelaide refers to the oil wars and and the humans on the

955
00:45:50.460 --> 00:45:51.239
verge of extinction.

956
00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:51.539
Yeah.

957
00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:53.699
Yeah, humanity's on the verge of extinction.

958
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:55.079
And again, it's a story.

959
00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:57.900
It's starting in 2020. starting in 2020.

960
00:45:58.079 --> 00:45:58.559
Yeah, yeah.

961
00:45:58.619 --> 00:45:59.639
She said 40 years.

962
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:02.820
And guess what, boys and girls?

963
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:05.039
Right here, right now, it's oil wars.

964
00:46:05.099 --> 00:46:05.579
Let's do it.

965
00:46:05.820 --> 00:46:10.079
But again, it's that theme of things going too far and living past

966
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:12.539
their time and it's like, should they or not?

967
00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:14.940
And, and yeah, humanity, where the...

968
00:46:14.940 --> 00:46:20.099
You know, like, uh, Nathan, you say you feel, you know, what, of

969
00:46:20.099 --> 00:46:21.059
course, there's no question here.

970
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:21.960
Of course you save them.

971
00:46:22.019 --> 00:46:25.679
Of course you save, you know, mind you, then again, it's a weird

972
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:29.099
loop because if you save them, then you actually stop the human

973
00:46:29.099 --> 00:46:32.519
race in a way because it's a granddaughter that goes out and saves

974
00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:32.699
them.

975
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:35.880
So I would say in this case, yes, save them short term.

976
00:46:35.940 --> 00:46:38.159
No, don't save the humans long term.

977
00:46:38.219 --> 00:46:42.539
But this is, but this very much depends on, this depends on where

978
00:46:42.539 --> 00:46:46.019
you're coming from in your life choice is an emotional state.

979
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:49.860
So it's kind of, but it does have that, you know, that the whole

980
00:46:49.860 --> 00:46:52.440
the setting of the botanic gardens in Wales they use, those

981
00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:55.260
biodomes just make you think of silent running, that, you know, the

982
00:46:55.260 --> 00:46:58.800
movie of just them trying to keep a little garden of Eden going

983
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:00.960
way past, you know, when it should.

984
00:47:01.019 --> 00:47:04.739
So yeah, this question of whether humanity should keep going or

985
00:47:04.739 --> 00:47:04.980
not.

986
00:47:05.099 --> 00:47:07.559
Should be saved or not is, yeah.

987
00:47:07.619 --> 00:47:10.260
It does put it square in your lap.

988
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:14.099
Well, I don't know that I want to leave in a universe where the

989
00:47:14.099 --> 00:47:15.840
invisible enemy didn't happen.

990
00:47:15.900 --> 00:47:16.679
So.

991
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:21.000
And this, and this takes me back. mean, 2009.

992
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:23.460
It was just like the sort of tail end of the whole cool Britannia

993
00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:25.980
era where you could stick Union Jacks on things and they made you

994
00:47:25.980 --> 00:47:29.760
think of Kitch 60s revivalism rather than hating foreigners and it

995
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:32.039
was a nice little period.

996
00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:36.179
And having the bass lames after David Bowie was good.

997
00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:40.199
Little ties to David Bowie there, Bowie ties are cool, I think.

998
00:47:40.260 --> 00:47:42.360
Oh dear.

999
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:45.480
I'd written that one down.

1000
00:47:46.500 --> 00:47:48.960
It was funnier in my head as well.

1001
00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:05.280
Just going back to the Dalek briefly, and as we said, like a shout

1002
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:08.579
out to all these sort of sets, the graves they're dancing on in

1003
00:48:08.579 --> 00:48:12.300
terms of like the base being the sort of control centre of the

1004
00:48:12.300 --> 00:48:16.800
base is the old torchwood hub that they blew up last last season.

1005
00:48:16.860 --> 00:48:19.380
It's all based on that now.

1006
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:20.340
It's now Bowie Bay.

1007
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:23.400
And of course, Sarah Jane's attic, of course, was the attic she

1008
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:25.559
was looking out on, which is so it's got this very weird sort of

1009
00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:26.940
thing to it.

1010
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:29.280
At the time, I remember that dale came in.

1011
00:48:29.340 --> 00:48:32.159
Because I think, I think Pete you said earlier, like where I was

1012
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:34.380
with this show is like, I have had enough of this.

1013
00:48:34.380 --> 00:48:37.199
And so when the diet turned up, I was like, this just feels like a

1014
00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:38.519
continuity reference too far.

1015
00:48:38.579 --> 00:48:41.820
And it's funny, David's tenant said that he felt it was very bold

1016
00:48:41.820 --> 00:48:44.639
to have a reference to Journey's end.

1017
00:48:44.699 --> 00:48:47.340
He's like, wow, that's a really bold reference.

1018
00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:50.099
I was like, wow, stick around for the next 10 years.

1019
00:48:51.420 --> 00:48:55.380
But then Russell Russell's like, well, no, actually, we were

1020
00:48:55.380 --> 00:48:56.280
getting over 100 million.

1021
00:48:56.340 --> 00:48:57.659
Yeah, people are going to remember it.

1022
00:48:57.780 --> 00:48:58.800
Yeah.

1023
00:48:58.860 --> 00:49:00.840
And it's yeah, it's...

1024
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:04.500
It to me, it all just comes down to this thing is, is...

1025
00:49:04.500 --> 00:49:07.920
And also, I think I've been more forgiving watching it this time

1026
00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:11.460
around because of course, the show itself, going this far, doing

1027
00:49:11.460 --> 00:49:15.659
this extra lap. was like, I kind of see, I totally see why they

1028
00:49:15.659 --> 00:49:16.019
did it.

1029
00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:17.760
It's so insanely popular.

1030
00:49:17.820 --> 00:49:22.739
I mean, I watched, I just rewatched the, when Dave Tennant was

1031
00:49:22.739 --> 00:49:26.099
announcing his leaving, which I found nauseating at the time.

1032
00:49:26.099 --> 00:49:28.019
And if you watch it now, it's pretty for long.

1033
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:31.679
So it was the, and that just, like, briefly, it's national

1034
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:33.119
television awards, 2008.

1035
00:49:33.300 --> 00:49:35.940
He winning award round standing drama performance.

1036
00:49:36.059 --> 00:49:38.519
He can't be there, of course, because he's in the middle of what

1037
00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:41.940
was in theatrical industries known as Space Hamlet, because it had

1038
00:49:41.940 --> 00:49:44.519
Patrick Stewart and David Tennant in it.

1039
00:49:44.579 --> 00:49:48.539
And he's there and he's got and he's in the interval of giving his

1040
00:49:48.539 --> 00:49:52.920
award-winning Hamlet, just giving this simultaneously, accepting

1041
00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:57.000
his outstanding drama award and handing in his resignation and

1042
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:58.679
announcing his resignation.

1043
00:49:58.739 --> 00:49:59.940
It's kind of crazy.

1044
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.480
And just to make it even more insane, he's got 2 of his mates from

1045
00:50:03.480 --> 00:50:05.880
the production dressed in royal guards behind him.

1046
00:50:05.940 --> 00:50:08.280
So it looks like a royal dress.

1047
00:50:08.340 --> 00:50:11.639
And if you hear a very gold on a little caffio.

1048
00:50:11.699 --> 00:50:15.480
I mean, it may as well be, at least it would drown out the sound

1049
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:19.320
of the screaming girls and it's like, it's really, no, it's

1050
00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:20.039
genuinely remarkable.

1051
00:50:20.099 --> 00:50:21.780
I was like, I don't know who was on the guest list for that

1052
00:50:21.780 --> 00:50:26.280
national TV awards, but honestly, the tickets are like, it's a 3rd

1053
00:50:26.280 --> 00:50:27.000
daughter's in there.

1054
00:50:27.059 --> 00:50:30.840
It's like, it's really big like rock star screaming when he's on

1055
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:31.980
kid shouting out.

1056
00:50:32.039 --> 00:50:34.860
We love you, David, and it's like the 2nd he appears, everyone's

1057
00:50:34.860 --> 00:50:35.280
screaming.

1058
00:50:35.340 --> 00:50:38.940
And when he says, oh, but then I will be back, but it's going to

1059
00:50:38.940 --> 00:50:41.880
be my last, you know, the sound of a 1000000 girls' hearts

1060
00:50:41.880 --> 00:50:44.639
breaking around boobing and, you know, it's easy to forget how

1061
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:49.320
insanely popular this show was and how successful they were and

1062
00:50:49.320 --> 00:50:51.360
how Russell must have felt and how David must have felt.

1063
00:50:51.420 --> 00:50:54.300
And of course, the BBC would have just gone more, more, more.

1064
00:50:54.360 --> 00:50:58.800
The question was at the time, could Doctor Who survive without

1065
00:50:58.800 --> 00:50:59.760
David Tennant?

1066
00:50:59.820 --> 00:51:04.500
Now that all drove me nuts at the time because he is genuinely, I'm

1067
00:51:04.500 --> 00:51:06.960
not being contrarian about this, but he's genuinely my least

1068
00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:08.280
favourite doctor, genuinely.

1069
00:51:08.340 --> 00:51:12.780
Like, so, but I watching this time, I was like, no, I mean, I can

1070
00:51:12.780 --> 00:51:16.380
totally see why they went too far in inverted commas.

1071
00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:17.940
They were absolute like gadget.

1072
00:51:18.059 --> 00:51:19.139
They were driving this car.

1073
00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:20.880
They were like, solid, we're going on this thing.

1074
00:51:20.940 --> 00:51:22.260
Let's put the foot down and burn everything.

1075
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:25.139
So I can totally see why they did it.

1076
00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:27.719
It's just a question of whether they should have done or not.

1077
00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:31.260
To my taste, to just say, I would have loved it to end at

1078
00:51:31.260 --> 00:51:31.920
Journey's end.

1079
00:51:31.980 --> 00:51:33.480
I think the runaway bride.

1080
00:51:33.539 --> 00:51:36.000
I think you need someone to stop you and that shot of him

1081
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:37.440
destroying a monster.

1082
00:51:37.500 --> 00:51:38.219
I got it.

1083
00:51:38.280 --> 00:51:39.119
I totally got it.

1084
00:51:39.179 --> 00:51:40.920
I know we know what happens when he goes too far.

1085
00:51:40.980 --> 00:51:42.659
Seen he's going to stop you.

1086
00:51:42.719 --> 00:51:44.460
So I didn't really need to see this personally.

1087
00:51:44.579 --> 00:51:49.619
But it is worth saying that most people wanted to see this and

1088
00:51:49.619 --> 00:51:50.460
much, much more.

1089
00:51:50.940 --> 00:51:55.619
And yeah, when it came to, I don't want to go, I remember I was

1090
00:51:55.619 --> 00:51:58.199
shouting at the screen like Patty Stone.

1091
00:51:58.260 --> 00:51:59.820
Oh for God's sake, just die.

1092
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:03.239
Is Todd here?

1093
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:06.119
Oh, dear.

1094
00:52:06.179 --> 00:52:06.900
Yeah.

1095
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:07.619
Oh, yikes.

1096
00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:09.780
And then, of course, he comes back in the anniversary and says, I

1097
00:52:09.780 --> 00:52:10.380
don't want to go.

1098
00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:13.500
And now he's back as a Time Lord victorious, and I'm stepping away

1099
00:52:13.500 --> 00:52:13.920
from that there.

1100
00:52:13.980 --> 00:52:19.260
So, broadly speaking, like generously, it's like this whole, you

1101
00:52:19.260 --> 00:52:20.579
know, should this whole thing have happened?

1102
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:22.139
should Should this?

1103
00:52:22.199 --> 00:52:25.019
I mean, it's really clever, the way they've married this story to

1104
00:52:25.019 --> 00:52:27.719
what was going on in the production of, and going on in Doctor

1105
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:28.139
Who?

1106
00:52:28.199 --> 00:52:29.579
Should Doctor Who go this far?

1107
00:52:29.639 --> 00:52:32.039
Um, I, it can.

1108
00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:32.880
They do it well. well?

1109
00:52:32.940 --> 00:52:35.039
I personally wouldn't have didn't want them to do it.

1110
00:52:35.099 --> 00:52:37.079
I didn't need this victory lab, but...

1111
00:52:37.079 --> 00:52:39.119
It depends on your point of view, I guess.

1112
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:44.039
I have to say that the other thing that I dislike about this

1113
00:52:44.039 --> 00:52:49.079
episode is the opportunities it gives David to do teeth acting and

1114
00:52:49.079 --> 00:52:55.500
hair acting and like I just find him really quite obnoxious at the

1115
00:52:55.500 --> 00:52:56.099
end of this.

1116
00:52:56.760 --> 00:52:59.760
Like really, really unlikeable.

1117
00:52:59.820 --> 00:53:03.599
And I do think the one thing that he does is he's still tries to

1118
00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:08.579
do the sort of funny doctor thing. you know, as part of that

1119
00:53:08.579 --> 00:53:09.659
performance.

1120
00:53:09.719 --> 00:53:13.380
When he comes in and he's all sort of hubris and ordering people

1121
00:53:13.380 --> 00:53:18.059
around and teeth and shouting and stuff, there's still Doctor Who

1122
00:53:18.059 --> 00:53:22.739
he lines that would be fun in another context but aren't.

1123
00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:29.219
Yeah, but my aversion to it has really reduced over the years, I

1124
00:53:29.219 --> 00:53:31.440
think, because now I see, I see him doing all that in this and I

1125
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:34.139
think, okay, he's, he's being the addict who's hitting another

1126
00:53:34.139 --> 00:53:36.900
dose and another dose of being the doctor and it's not giving him

1127
00:53:36.900 --> 00:53:39.960
the high and it's driving him to distraction and he's almost

1128
00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:41.340
trying to, trying to fake it.

1129
00:53:41.340 --> 00:53:43.980
Like, you know, the bit, so when he turns around and does go back

1130
00:53:43.980 --> 00:53:46.980
to the base after Steffy's died, because he's like, okay, now

1131
00:53:46.980 --> 00:53:47.340
she's dead.

1132
00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:49.019
I'll go back and the rest of them are safe.

1133
00:53:49.380 --> 00:53:53.460
It's possibly a stupid accident, wandering up and down the

1134
00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:53.940
Danube.

1135
00:53:54.599 --> 00:53:58.079
He goes back and he's like, yeah, I'm here.

1136
00:53:58.139 --> 00:53:58.679
I'm gonna save you.

1137
00:53:58.739 --> 00:54:00.239
And it always annoyed me when he did that.

1138
00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:02.579
Because again, Doctor Who isn't a superhero.

1139
00:54:02.579 --> 00:54:06.059
And I don't want the entire population of the earth to worship

1140
00:54:06.059 --> 00:54:06.360
him.

1141
00:54:06.420 --> 00:54:07.739
He should be slipping away quietly.

1142
00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:10.679
But that's not that's the opposite of what this era was doing.

1143
00:54:10.739 --> 00:54:14.099
But so when he does do that and it doesn't work for him and he

1144
00:54:14.099 --> 00:54:15.059
just completely fails.

1145
00:54:15.119 --> 00:54:21.239
I, I, I, I kind of think, I, I don't know, there's a degree of

1146
00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:25.380
it's, it's like his, his, like Pertwe's vanity coming back at the

1147
00:54:25.380 --> 00:54:27.239
end to get him in Planet of the Spiders, I guess.

1148
00:54:27.300 --> 00:54:30.599
Um, And fancy's the wrong word. you know what I mean?

1149
00:54:30.659 --> 00:54:33.539
The idea the doctor's, well, his vanity and his quest for

1150
00:54:33.539 --> 00:54:34.860
knowledge in Planet of the Spiders.

1151
00:54:34.920 --> 00:54:37.800
And for the 10th doctor, it's this idea that he is a superhero and

1152
00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:41.219
a god that does ultimately stop working for him.

1153
00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:43.619
But then how much that actually comes into play in the actual

1154
00:54:43.619 --> 00:54:46.380
regeneration story is another matter.

1155
00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:49.199
But as a pre-finale story.

1156
00:54:49.260 --> 00:54:51.000
I like what it does with that, yeah.

1157
00:54:51.059 --> 00:54:53.820
Look, like Caves of Andrewzani.

1158
00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:56.760
I think it's a wonderful piece of drama.

1159
00:54:57.119 --> 00:55:03.900
And I think objectively, it's the best of the specials, but I

1160
00:55:03.900 --> 00:55:06.539
still much prefer watching Planet of the Dead.

1161
00:55:06.599 --> 00:55:09.059
Planet of the Dead is still my favourite because it's fun.

1162
00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:15.119
End of time, started life as one episode, got stretched into 2 and

1163
00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:16.320
really shouldn't have been.

1164
00:55:16.860 --> 00:55:20.760
Um, whereas, whereas this, I'm just like, oh, yes, this is very

1165
00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:21.119
worthy.

1166
00:55:21.179 --> 00:55:21.960
This is very worthy.

1167
00:55:22.019 --> 00:55:22.679
This is very worthy.

1168
00:55:22.739 --> 00:55:24.360
Can I start having fun?

1169
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:28.800
And in fact, the doctor says what his mission is. is, you know, the

1170
00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:34.260
doctor, doctor fun, you know, and well, it ties him with him

1171
00:55:34.260 --> 00:55:34.800
failing.

1172
00:55:34.860 --> 00:55:35.880
Yeah, yeah.

1173
00:55:35.940 --> 00:55:37.440
No, he completely fails to do that.

1174
00:55:37.500 --> 00:55:39.719
And I guess that conception of the doctor.

1175
00:55:39.780 --> 00:55:41.699
Yeah, it's it's deliberate, isn't it?

1176
00:55:41.760 --> 00:55:44.400
Like, you know, Russell knows that we're not going to be having

1177
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:47.639
fun accompanying the doctor by the end of this episode.

1178
00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:50.280
It's very clever.

1179
00:55:50.340 --> 00:55:55.139
But I grow weary and we get it in the Moffat era as well, where

1180
00:55:55.139 --> 00:55:59.159
being the doctor is this sort of terrible burden and you know, like

1181
00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:01.260
maybe I'll just kill myself or whatever.

1182
00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:02.340
Do you know what I mean?

1183
00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:05.280
Like I just, I dislike that enormously.

1184
00:56:05.340 --> 00:56:06.659
And I like that.

1185
00:56:06.659 --> 00:56:07.559
Am I having a good arc?

1186
00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:12.960
But it's like the doctor being sad or the doctor being lonely.

1187
00:56:13.019 --> 00:56:14.280
Do you know what I mean?

1188
00:56:14.340 --> 00:56:15.239
All of that's great.

1189
00:56:15.300 --> 00:56:18.960
I thought, you know, it gave the doctor some interiority that he

1190
00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:22.980
kind of lacks more often than not in the in the classic series.

1191
00:56:23.099 --> 00:56:28.559
But the doctor being Batman, you know, where he's a superhero, but

1192
00:56:28.559 --> 00:56:31.079
only because terrible things have happened to him and he's having

1193
00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:31.679
a miserable time.

1194
00:56:31.739 --> 00:56:36.300
Can I just say, as a big fan of Batman 1966, not all Batman's.

1195
00:56:36.360 --> 00:56:37.320
I'm just going to say that.

1196
00:56:38.760 --> 00:56:42.719
See, I was actually going to point at you, Conrad, which is fun on

1197
00:56:42.719 --> 00:56:42.960
audio.

1198
00:56:43.019 --> 00:56:44.639
I picked it up.

1199
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:51.179
Because shortly before we reconnected, I watched all of Batman

1200
00:56:51.179 --> 00:56:51.900
66.

1201
00:56:52.139 --> 00:56:54.780
And then while you were watching all of Batman 66, I was getting

1202
00:56:54.780 --> 00:56:55.800
your opinions on it as well.

1203
00:56:55.800 --> 00:56:59.280
And it's like, yeah, actually, Batman doesn't, you, just because

1204
00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:01.920
you've been through those traumatic events doesn't mean you have

1205
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:03.719
to be grim, dark and horrible.

1206
00:57:03.780 --> 00:57:08.519
But there are several times where the Adam West, Bruce Wayne, talks

1207
00:57:08.519 --> 00:57:14.039
as much as he could in the 60s about Batman's tragic past, but

1208
00:57:14.039 --> 00:57:17.219
specifically kind of says, that's why I do this charitable work.

1209
00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:18.360
That's why I help these people.

1210
00:57:18.420 --> 00:57:19.260
That's why I do this.

1211
00:57:19.320 --> 00:57:24.659
Without big overblown, I am the lord of time and they and the laws

1212
00:57:24.659 --> 00:57:26.579
of time will obey me, et cetera.

1213
00:57:26.699 --> 00:57:31.380
Which does fit, which does fit the character, and at least at the

1214
00:57:31.380 --> 00:57:36.480
end of this, the plot immediately repudiates that and says, no

1215
00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:40.019
this is a terrible idea, and we're not, we're not going to go down

1216
00:57:40.019 --> 00:57:42.960
this path for at least another 11 years when we will do a

1217
00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:44.820
multimedia spectacular based on it.

1218
00:57:45.059 --> 00:57:46.860
It is ahead on.

1219
00:57:46.920 --> 00:57:50.400
It's a head-on confrontation of it rather than just doing it, I

1220
00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:50.579
think.

1221
00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:51.119
Yeah.

1222
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:57.840
To me too, I think it is just the plot that makes him that calms

1223
00:57:57.840 --> 00:58:01.739
him down rather than anything better than that.

1224
00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:06.239
And I think that having Adelaide shoot herself in the face

1225
00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:13.380
offscreen is not what I want very much for Doctor Who, and, you

1226
00:58:13.380 --> 00:58:15.360
know, like, I think it's probably something that you would never

1227
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:16.199
do now.

1228
00:58:17.219 --> 00:58:22.500
Well, I think it's part of the breaking of the format.

1229
00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:23.219
Yeah.

1230
00:58:23.219 --> 00:58:29.460
It's, they're taking it to a logical and horrible conclusion.

1231
00:58:29.460 --> 00:58:32.760
And, you know, the basic thing they're breaking, 1st of all, is

1232
00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:36.239
the doctor says people because, 1st of all, he says, well, no, I'm

1233
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:36.840
not going to save you.

1234
00:58:36.900 --> 00:58:39.900
But then it's like, I'm going to save you, but it'll be bad.

1235
00:58:39.960 --> 00:58:42.900
But it'll be, not only will it be bad, I'm doing it for me.

1236
00:58:43.079 --> 00:58:47.159
Because as soon as everyone falls out of the Tartars, he's like

1237
00:58:47.159 --> 00:58:48.059
well, is no one going to thank me?

1238
00:58:48.119 --> 00:58:49.079
Yeah, right.

1239
00:58:49.139 --> 00:58:50.159
You know, I'm doing it.

1240
00:58:50.219 --> 00:58:54.539
I'm doing it for me And then the final thing is, you know, the one

1241
00:58:54.539 --> 00:58:57.300
person the doctor really wanted to say, because he pretty much

1242
00:58:57.300 --> 00:59:03.539
says he doesn't care about Yuri and Mia. and he doesn't care about

1243
00:59:03.539 --> 00:59:04.260
gadget.

1244
00:59:04.380 --> 00:59:05.880
Oh, gadgets lost your signal.

1245
00:59:05.940 --> 00:59:06.360
Oh, well.

1246
00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:10.980
The one person he cares about kind of goes, actually, no, you're

1247
00:59:10.980 --> 00:59:13.920
not, you're not in charge of me because when Adelaide sets that

1248
00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:17.880
bomb, She is saying, I do this to save the earth and to save my

1249
00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:18.239
family.

1250
00:59:18.300 --> 00:59:21.840
And the doctor takes that away from her and she kind of goes, no.

1251
00:59:21.900 --> 00:59:23.219
Yeah.

1252
00:59:23.280 --> 00:59:24.599
You see, I don't buy that either.

1253
00:59:24.659 --> 00:59:25.380
Do you know what I mean?

1254
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:28.320
She's just shooting herself because David Tennant's been a massive

1255
00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:28.739
dick.

1256
00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:33.900
Like, um, or how I've liked most of the 2 previous people.

1257
00:59:35.699 --> 00:59:38.639
All sharp objects removed my house in 2009.

1258
00:59:39.360 --> 00:59:41.760
You know, put away those teeth.

1259
00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:45.420
But it is like, that's the thing.

1260
00:59:45.480 --> 00:59:46.619
It is her absolutely.

1261
00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:48.420
Yeah, she is in charge of her destiny.

1262
00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:53.219
And, and, and she sees that, um, and, and every look on her face

1263
00:59:53.219 --> 00:59:55.739
throughout the whole episode is Lindsay Duncan built building up

1264
00:59:55.739 --> 00:59:56.280
to that moment.

1265
00:59:56.340 --> 00:59:59.639
So that when you when you 1st watch it, it's a massive shock and

1266
00:59:59.639 --> 01:00:03.179
when you rewatch it, she's absolutely building a path to it.

1267
01:00:03.239 --> 01:00:08.039
And I think if it had the original ending of him just letting her

1268
01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:10.500
live and then feeling a bit worried and guilty about it

1269
01:00:10.500 --> 01:00:11.039
afterwards.

1270
01:00:11.099 --> 01:00:13.500
I mean, because that's what it's for, isn't it?

1271
01:00:13.559 --> 01:00:17.699
despite within the episode, it's to enable him to have that.

1272
01:00:17.760 --> 01:00:18.719
Oh my god, what have I done?

1273
01:00:18.780 --> 01:00:20.159
And they're rather over the top crash soon.

1274
01:00:20.219 --> 01:00:23.460
And then there's a there's the crash zoom on him and the what have

1275
01:00:23.460 --> 01:00:23.940
I done face?

1276
01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:26.760
And then it flashes back to him hearing what she just said 20

1277
01:00:26.760 --> 01:00:27.420
seconds ago.

1278
01:00:27.480 --> 01:00:28.860
You hear it.

1279
01:00:28.860 --> 01:00:29.579
It's a different cake.

1280
01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:31.860
I think so.

1281
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:35.400
Because that is that's possibly the only thing that I would say is

1282
01:00:35.400 --> 01:00:36.179
a directorial slip.

1283
01:00:36.239 --> 01:00:38.219
I don't know why he's having a flashback to something that he just

1284
01:00:38.219 --> 01:00:39.480
heard to say 20 seconds earlier.

1285
01:00:39.539 --> 01:00:41.280
Yeah, we were right there watching.

1286
01:00:41.340 --> 01:00:45.539
But, um, It's all for that punch.

1287
01:00:46.500 --> 01:00:52.500
I also think it's cheating because somehow bringing her back to

1288
01:00:52.500 --> 01:00:58.019
Earth and having her inspire Susie in person after having escaped

1289
01:00:58.019 --> 01:01:00.539
from Mars, that won't work.

1290
01:01:00.599 --> 01:01:02.159
That'll wreck human history.

1291
01:01:02.219 --> 01:01:06.480
But having Susie and her mother come over to Adelaide's house one

1292
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:11.159
day and find her sort of face down, you know, on the on the living

1293
01:01:11.159 --> 01:01:13.440
room floor with a pool of blood brown ahead.

1294
01:01:13.500 --> 01:01:15.420
But that is going to. inspire.

1295
01:01:15.480 --> 01:01:16.260
Do you know what I mean?

1296
01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:18.599
Like, it's just we're making the rules up at this point, whatever.

1297
01:01:18.659 --> 01:01:22.079
I agree that's another thing that doesn't that doesn't quite

1298
01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:22.619
work.

1299
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:24.420
Oh, the Reaper's turned up a letter.

1300
01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:25.619
The reaper's turned up.

1301
01:01:25.679 --> 01:01:29.639
I think maybe maybe there's a two-way com link.

1302
01:01:29.699 --> 01:01:32.519
Video link, and the daughter and granddaughter have been watching

1303
01:01:32.519 --> 01:01:35.400
all of these events, and as soon as Lindsay Dunk, grandma comes

1304
01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:36.239
home, they shoot her.

1305
01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:38.880
They were waiting.

1306
01:01:38.880 --> 01:01:39.780
They've been watching it.

1307
01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:42.300
Big David Tenant fans. no, you've got to go.

1308
01:01:42.420 --> 01:01:44.219
No, maybe not.

1309
01:01:44.280 --> 01:01:47.039
But it's weird though. it's like, again, it's worth saying, you

1310
01:01:47.039 --> 01:01:49.800
know, that is an extreme moment in Doctor Who.

1311
01:01:49.860 --> 01:01:50.880
It does break the program.

1312
01:01:50.940 --> 01:01:52.139
It feels outside the program.

1313
01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:53.400
It feels odd at the time.

1314
01:01:53.460 --> 01:01:56.699
You know, thank goodness this thing wasn't the, it was gives me a

1315
01:01:56.699 --> 01:01:58.619
Christmas special, originally called Red Christmas, which is a

1316
01:01:58.619 --> 01:01:59.039
great title.

1317
01:01:59.099 --> 01:02:03.059
But, um, it's good, like, it was, it was reaching to be a bullet

1318
01:02:03.059 --> 01:02:07.260
an old school pistol because deliberately, they wanted, Yeah, they

1319
01:02:07.260 --> 01:02:09.360
were, I mean, deliberately with the whole Bowie base thing, they

1320
01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:13.500
wanted it to be very NASA, very Star Trek, but kind of

1321
01:02:13.500 --> 01:02:14.039
believable.

1322
01:02:14.099 --> 01:02:17.159
So they actually didn't want too many whiz-bangy things.

1323
01:02:17.219 --> 01:02:21.780
They actually didn't want laser guns, but the producer, again, one

1324
01:02:21.780 --> 01:02:24.300
of the many, many things they turned down in this, they're like, no

1325
01:02:24.300 --> 01:02:26.460
no, no, no, we are not having anyone shooting themselves with a

1326
01:02:26.460 --> 01:02:26.940
real gun.

1327
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:28.320
There'll be a laser zap.

1328
01:02:28.380 --> 01:02:32.099
So it turns out that the, in fact, the person when you watch the

1329
01:02:32.099 --> 01:02:34.559
production of this thing, the person who keeps turning down the

1330
01:02:34.559 --> 01:02:36.780
monsters will keeps turning down there so it keeps turning down

1331
01:02:36.780 --> 01:02:37.019
that.

1332
01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:40.199
Even a huge stunt when there's that explosion.

1333
01:02:40.260 --> 01:02:42.179
David was like, I'm doing this explosure.

1334
01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:44.460
I'm doing this huge stunt and doing this huge stunt and they were

1335
01:02:44.460 --> 01:02:45.539
like, no, I'm not having that.

1336
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:49.139
The when he says like the doctor should have someone to stop you.

1337
01:02:49.199 --> 01:02:51.420
It appears to be Nicky Wilson, the producer.

1338
01:02:51.480 --> 01:02:53.579
He seems to every turn.

1339
01:02:53.639 --> 01:02:58.440
She seems to be like toning it down, but it is a, that's a very

1340
01:02:58.440 --> 01:02:59.519
extraordinary moment.

1341
01:02:59.579 --> 01:03:01.739
It does feel that just feels too far.

1342
01:03:01.800 --> 01:03:04.079
It feels too much. to me.

1343
01:03:04.139 --> 01:03:06.300
They do it again, they do it really well.

1344
01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:07.440
They justify it within the story.

1345
01:03:07.500 --> 01:03:09.420
It's a question of should they do it?

1346
01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:11.099
In fact, I've got a moral question.

1347
01:03:11.159 --> 01:03:12.960
I've got a moral dilemma for you all.

1348
01:03:12.960 --> 01:03:18.599
Let's say we go back to Roast Lock Base 2009, let's say, 2008, when

1349
01:03:18.599 --> 01:03:20.639
they're saying, okay, we've done Journeys End.

1350
01:03:20.699 --> 01:03:21.659
This is amazing.

1351
01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:22.380
David's going off.

1352
01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:24.179
He's doing Hamlet, but he might get some time off.

1353
01:03:24.239 --> 01:03:25.500
What do we do?

1354
01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:28.440
Do we pull a plug or should we go, you know, and the BBC really

1355
01:03:28.440 --> 01:03:28.980
wants us to do it?

1356
01:03:29.039 --> 01:03:29.820
They're throwing money at us.

1357
01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:33.780
Do you go back and stop them from making an extra year or do you

1358
01:03:33.780 --> 01:03:35.699
let them do it?

1359
01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:37.619
Come on, there's the 4 of us.

1360
01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:39.059
Weve got to go back and we've got to make the decision.

1361
01:03:39.119 --> 01:03:41.400
I agree with you, Conrad.

1362
01:03:41.460 --> 01:03:46.440
I think that these don't work really well.

1363
01:03:46.500 --> 01:03:50.579
And I think that Doctor Who as specials doesn't work really well.

1364
01:03:50.639 --> 01:03:55.679
I like a season, I think making us wait 7 months for this and then

1365
01:03:55.679 --> 01:03:59.760
having this be the thing that we have for the next month or so

1366
01:03:59.760 --> 01:04:01.320
before we see the next thing.

1367
01:04:01.380 --> 01:04:04.679
I don't think any of them work particularly well.

1368
01:04:04.739 --> 01:04:09.719
But I love Doctor Who that fails in various ways.

1369
01:04:09.780 --> 01:04:14.940
And, you know, we're going to get 4 episodes of FTE out of it.

1370
01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:17.340
So I'm absolutely here.

1371
01:04:17.400 --> 01:04:17.880
Wow.

1372
01:04:17.880 --> 01:04:21.659
I think I think you're both mad.

1373
01:04:21.719 --> 01:04:24.059
I think you're both mad and deranged and must be stopped because

1374
01:04:24.059 --> 01:04:30.840
because this kept the momentum going and it did it did do when

1375
01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:33.360
Moffatt was on the verge of launching his new sort of more very

1376
01:04:33.360 --> 01:04:36.659
fairy tale version and that's not a majority of word for me.

1377
01:04:36.780 --> 01:04:39.960
I've got lots of other pejorative words from Moffitt, but that's

1378
01:04:39.960 --> 01:04:40.260
not one.

1379
01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:44.880
And this new completely different style of Doctor Who was coming.

1380
01:04:44.940 --> 01:04:47.699
And so to have these episodes where Russell T. Davis did

1381
01:04:47.699 --> 01:04:52.619
everything in different directions to 200%, kept it very much in

1382
01:04:52.619 --> 01:04:57.360
the public, I kept it really live and meant that from the 2nd from

1383
01:04:57.360 --> 01:05:00.480
Tennant's actual departure to Matt Smith's arrival.

1384
01:05:00.539 --> 01:05:01.199
It only a few weeks.

1385
01:05:01.260 --> 01:05:03.659
It's only about, it's only about 10 weeks or something, isn't it

1386
01:05:03.659 --> 01:05:07.619
between the end of the tenant era and the 11th hour going out.

1387
01:05:07.679 --> 01:05:10.199
And I think without that, you have one of these 18 months gaps

1388
01:05:10.199 --> 01:05:13.619
that we've now got used to where just loses momentum from the

1389
01:05:13.619 --> 01:05:14.340
public eye completely.

1390
01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:17.579
Unless it's filled with Time Lord Victorious with lots of pictures

1391
01:05:17.579 --> 01:05:21.960
of David Tennant and, you know, with in hero poses, with

1392
01:05:21.960 --> 01:05:22.559
explosions.

1393
01:05:22.619 --> 01:05:24.719
So don't worry, he's got us covered for quite some time.

1394
01:05:24.780 --> 01:05:26.519
Brendan, it's all down.

1395
01:05:26.579 --> 01:05:30.059
So, so, so, Pete, you're saying in this rose lock scenario, you're

1396
01:05:30.059 --> 01:05:31.860
going to let them keep going.

1397
01:05:32.039 --> 01:05:33.420
Yep.

1398
01:05:33.539 --> 01:05:36.119
Okay, so me and so, okay.

1399
01:05:36.179 --> 01:05:37.500
Brendan, it's all done to you, mate.

1400
01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:38.820
What are you, you get the casting vote.

1401
01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:39.179
What?

1402
01:05:39.179 --> 01:05:41.099
I'm I'm going to play weather people.

1403
01:05:41.940 --> 01:05:47.099
I'm going to say let them keep going for much the same reason as

1404
01:05:47.099 --> 01:05:57.000
Pete does because these run of specials, it's, and we've seen this

1405
01:05:57.000 --> 01:05:59.099
from Russell's subsequent work.

1406
01:05:59.159 --> 01:06:03.059
Russell T. Davies has quite a dark streak and he's been keeping a

1407
01:06:03.059 --> 01:06:05.159
lot of it at bay in Doctor Who.

1408
01:06:05.219 --> 01:06:09.780
And this is the moment where instead he goes, okay, we know we've

1409
01:06:09.780 --> 01:06:11.039
got a definite out.

1410
01:06:11.099 --> 01:06:14.099
We know that the program will go on beyond us.

1411
01:06:14.159 --> 01:06:15.960
Let's experiment.

1412
01:06:16.019 --> 01:06:21.360
And Planet of the Dead is pretty Trad, you know, and pretty fun

1413
01:06:21.360 --> 01:06:22.139
with it.

1414
01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:23.460
Waters of Mars.

1415
01:06:23.519 --> 01:06:29.699
It breaks the show in such a way that they know that even though

1416
01:06:29.699 --> 01:06:31.559
they've got 2 more episodes to do, they're not going to do this

1417
01:06:31.559 --> 01:06:31.860
again.

1418
01:06:31.920 --> 01:06:35.579
End of time is a spectacular failure.

1419
01:06:35.639 --> 01:06:41.099
And I mean that in terms of it is an impressive spectacle, it has

1420
01:06:41.099 --> 01:06:45.239
good performances from Tennant and SIM and Bernard Crippens and

1421
01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:46.079
pretty much everyone.

1422
01:06:46.079 --> 01:06:49.679
And, you know, Tim, the Sexiest Bond alive, Timothy Dalton.

1423
01:06:49.739 --> 01:06:50.219
I know.

1424
01:06:50.219 --> 01:06:52.199
But it doesn't work.

1425
01:06:52.199 --> 01:06:53.880
Shackable Barooza is the next bowl.

1426
01:06:56.579 --> 01:06:58.500
Philip Latham.

1427
01:06:59.519 --> 01:07:01.800
Hang on, where does he wrestle on?

1428
01:07:01.920 --> 01:07:02.159
Sorry.

1429
01:07:02.460 --> 01:07:04.380
He's wrestle on.

1430
01:07:04.440 --> 01:07:06.360
I thought you was dark embarrassing.

1431
01:07:06.420 --> 01:07:07.500
We can do them both.

1432
01:07:07.619 --> 01:07:08.099
We could do both.

1433
01:07:08.159 --> 01:07:10.559
It's well, it's okay now.

1434
01:07:10.619 --> 01:07:12.840
According to Chris Chip, they're the same person. sure.

1435
01:07:13.440 --> 01:07:21.239
It means that when Matt Smith avoids crashing into Big Ben and we

1436
01:07:21.239 --> 01:07:27.659
have that beautiful 1st year with him and Karen Gillen, if, you

1437
01:07:27.659 --> 01:07:31.920
know, if that had come off the back of series four, it just would

1438
01:07:31.920 --> 01:07:32.880
have felt like more of the same.

1439
01:07:33.900 --> 01:07:37.320
The specials give us a chance to kind of go...

1440
01:07:37.320 --> 01:07:41.519
It's kind of like the doctor saying, the ice Warriors live here

1441
01:07:41.519 --> 01:07:42.840
you know, yeah, we're not going to show you them, though.

1442
01:07:42.900 --> 01:07:43.860
This is what Doctor Who could be.

1443
01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:45.179
Don't worry, we're not going to do that.

1444
01:07:47.400 --> 01:07:51.780
I don't, I mean, I love series 5, but I think I might have loved

1445
01:07:51.780 --> 01:07:55.500
it a little bit less if I hadn't been a bit a bit turned off by

1446
01:07:55.500 --> 01:07:56.820
waters of miles on the end of time.

1447
01:07:57.000 --> 01:07:59.039
So we are deadlocked.

1448
01:07:59.099 --> 01:08:01.739
So we didlock, but, blah, blah, blah.

1449
01:08:01.800 --> 01:08:05.400
This whole episode when it aired, there's a tribute, of course, at

1450
01:08:05.400 --> 01:08:08.219
the end, the special is dedicated to Barry Letts.

1451
01:08:08.280 --> 01:08:11.340
Now if anybody can get it and break this stalemate and have an

1452
01:08:11.340 --> 01:08:14.039
opinion on it, we're like, what would Barry do?

1453
01:08:14.099 --> 01:08:15.239
But what would he think?

1454
01:08:15.300 --> 01:08:16.260
That's the big one.

1455
01:08:17.100 --> 01:08:22.619
Yeah, I mean, the Barry, let's hear it is spectacular and lovely

1456
01:08:22.619 --> 01:08:24.119
in all sorts of ways.

1457
01:08:24.180 --> 01:08:29.220
But it's not that wildly experimental, though, is it?

1458
01:08:29.279 --> 01:08:31.979
Yeah, he would, he would be saying...

1459
01:08:31.979 --> 01:08:33.840
What would he be saying?

1460
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:37.260
I think he'd be with you, Conrad, to be honest.

1461
01:08:37.500 --> 01:08:42.539
Because, you know, he very, very early on got hauled over the

1462
01:08:42.539 --> 01:08:46.319
coals for being too scary and actually agreed and kind of went

1463
01:08:46.319 --> 01:08:47.399
okay, we'll pull it back a bit.

1464
01:08:47.460 --> 01:08:52.439
And, you know, did so, but still managed to make scary Doctor Who

1465
01:08:52.439 --> 01:08:56.159
with a strong moral direction because he often spoke about the

1466
01:08:56.159 --> 01:08:59.100
morality of the program and how the doctor doesn't do certain

1467
01:08:59.100 --> 01:09:01.800
things and, you know, he's the man who never would carry a gun

1468
01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:04.140
unless you're an ogre on or a dinosaur.

1469
01:09:06.779 --> 01:09:10.319
You know, but certainly.

1470
01:09:11.220 --> 01:09:16.500
You know, is the only other instance of suicide by gun in Doctor

1471
01:09:16.500 --> 01:09:18.659
Who image of the fender.

1472
01:09:19.319 --> 01:09:20.939
Hmm.

1473
01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:22.380
Maybe.

1474
01:09:22.439 --> 01:09:24.359
Um, yeah, yeah.

1475
01:09:24.420 --> 01:09:27.359
Yeah, I think I think we'll, I think we'll get one in the Capaldi

1476
01:09:27.359 --> 01:09:27.600
era.

1477
01:09:27.659 --> 01:09:30.420
I think there might be one in Mummy on the Orient Express, but

1478
01:09:30.420 --> 01:09:33.359
previously, I think it's something Dr. was definitely shied away

1479
01:09:33.359 --> 01:09:33.600
from.

1480
01:09:33.659 --> 01:09:36.479
Yeah, of course, we had Donna blowing herself up a few weeks ago

1481
01:09:36.479 --> 01:09:38.880
with her suicide vest.

1482
01:09:38.939 --> 01:09:40.319
Oh, yeah.

1483
01:09:40.380 --> 01:09:42.420
I mean, there's been a lot of people blow themselves up to, you

1484
01:09:42.420 --> 01:09:44.520
know, sacrifice themselves for others and stuff.

1485
01:09:44.579 --> 01:09:47.640
But I do think that the gun to the head thing is just a little bit

1486
01:09:47.640 --> 01:09:51.600
kind of, you know, and she's not under threat.

1487
01:09:51.659 --> 01:09:55.500
Nothing's going to happen to her if she if she doesn't do it.

1488
01:09:55.560 --> 01:09:59.819
And so I just think, you know, yeah, it's unfortunate.

1489
01:10:25.380 --> 01:10:28.739
Well, that's all we have time for, for now.

1490
01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:32.159
We'll be back in the next few weeks to see what the Noble family

1491
01:10:32.159 --> 01:10:35.579
has been getting up to in the end of time part one.

1492
01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:39.479
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1493
01:10:39.479 --> 01:10:42.180
and you can keep up with us at flights for entirety on Facebook, at

1494
01:10:42.180 --> 01:10:45.420
FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, flights

1495
01:10:45.420 --> 01:10:48.659
throughentirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts

1496
01:10:48.659 --> 01:10:51.000
Bondfinger and Jody into Terror.

1497
01:10:51.060 --> 01:10:53.159
Pete, where can people find you?

1498
01:10:53.220 --> 01:10:58.199
Uh, I'm Prof underscore quite a mess on Twitter and I'll crop up

1499
01:10:58.199 --> 01:11:01.380
sometimes on the lovely Trap one underscore podcast.

1500
01:11:01.439 --> 01:11:03.779
And Conrad, where can people find you?

1501
01:11:03.840 --> 01:11:06.960
Yeah, you can also find me on Twitter at Hair of the Hound

1502
01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:10.380
underscore, and like Pete, I'm often on the trap one podcast.

1503
01:11:10.500 --> 01:11:15.000
So until next time, Remember that the very best way to lose a few

1504
01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:18.659
pounds is to condense all your oxygen membranes.

1505
01:11:18.720 --> 01:11:19.979
I'm doing it now.

1506
01:11:20.039 --> 01:11:22.920
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1507
01:11:22.979 --> 01:11:23.640
Good night.

1508
01:11:23.699 --> 01:11:24.720
Good night.

1509
01:11:24.779 --> 01:11:25.500
Good night.

1510
01:11:25.560 --> 01:11:27.720
This never would have happened to Matt Damon.

1511
01:11:30.779 --> 01:11:33.659
That was Flight 3 Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan

1512
01:11:33.659 --> 01:11:35.699
Jones, Pete Lambert, and Conrad Westmas.

1513
01:11:35.760 --> 01:11:38.579
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane

1514
01:11:38.579 --> 01:11:39.420
Orberg.

1515
01:11:39.479 --> 01:11:42.840
This episode, Fix Or Flux, was recorded on the 11th of October

1516
01:11:42.840 --> 01:11:45.600
2020 and released on the 21st of November.

1517
01:11:51.659 --> 01:11:54.359
Well, I don't know about you, but I'm planning to nip back in time

1518
01:11:54.359 --> 01:11:57.659
to 1987 and persuade Bonnie Langford to stay on for another

1519
01:11:57.659 --> 01:11:58.079
season.

1520
01:11:58.140 --> 01:12:00.000
See you when I get back.

1521
01:12:03.479 --> 01:12:05.399
What do we wanna do?

1522
01:12:05.520 --> 01:12:10.199
I don't think we can go back to talking about things.

1523
01:12:10.260 --> 01:12:11.159
Should we wind it up?

1524
01:12:11.220 --> 01:12:11.760
Yeah.

1525
01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:15.060
Oh, God.

1526
01:12:15.119 --> 01:12:17.220
I just got a in that for my boss.

1527
01:12:18.359 --> 01:12:22.920
I'm presuming I'm presuming this is probably going to be the tag.

1528
01:12:22.979 --> 01:12:25.560
So something I noticed, which is totally frivolous.

1529
01:12:25.859 --> 01:12:28.800
When Lindsay Duncan's name comes up.

1530
01:12:28.920 --> 01:12:32.640
Lindsay and Duncan are not aligned with each other.

1531
01:12:34.260 --> 01:12:36.960
I hope someone got fired for that.

1532
01:12:37.380 --> 01:12:40.079
And someone's done...

1533
01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:41.640
And someone's done...

1534
01:12:41.640 --> 01:12:43.319
They had to go back and edit it.

1535
01:12:44.340 --> 01:12:47.159
You can't bloody... not paying that much.

1536
01:12:48.180 --> 01:12:54.239
And because it's my last episode of the RTD era, not on the end of

1537
01:12:54.239 --> 01:12:54.420
time.

1538
01:12:54.479 --> 01:13:00.600
I'd just like to say for the last time, the end credits vortex is

1539
01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:03.060
not centred and it really annoys me.

1540
01:13:04.020 --> 01:13:07.619
They could do it in 1974.

1541
01:13:07.859 --> 01:13:10.020
What's your excuse, milk?

1542
01:13:10.079 --> 01:13:12.239
What do you call yourselves?

1543
01:13:12.420 --> 01:13:13.920
Wow.

1544
01:13:13.979 --> 01:13:14.640
Wow.

1545
01:13:14.699 --> 01:13:18.420
I didn't realise they'd been eating you away if it was 2005.

1546
01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:20.039
Brandon, you've been doing this for way too long.

1547
01:13:20.100 --> 01:13:21.239
No one should have this much power.

1548
01:13:24.239 --> 01:13:27.479
I am the lord of peppermint chocolate.

1549
01:13:27.479 --> 01:13:28.500
Will obey me.

1550
01:13:28.560 --> 01:13:30.659
It'll stay off my goddamn hips.

1551
01:13:30.720 --> 01:13:33.720
This is a shame that Adelaide didn't stay around for a couple more

1552
01:13:33.720 --> 01:13:34.020
days.

1553
01:13:34.079 --> 01:13:36.539
She could have watched the 96th anniversary, special of Doctor Who

1554
01:13:36.539 --> 01:13:41.159
on BBC One on the 23rd, 21, whatever it was.

1555
01:13:42.180 --> 01:13:47.220
Rod did rightly point out this morning that it would actually be

1556
01:13:47.220 --> 01:13:49.680
his centenary because he was born in 1959.

1557
01:13:50.220 --> 01:13:51.600
Wow.

1558
01:13:51.600 --> 01:13:54.359
He also said, well, as credits were rolling.

1559
01:13:54.420 --> 01:13:55.560
Well, that was just stupid, wasn't it?

1560
01:13:55.619 --> 01:13:56.819
Like, why was it stupid?

1561
01:13:56.880 --> 01:13:58.439
He said, well, I told you when we watched it last time.

1562
01:13:58.500 --> 01:13:59.880
I said, darling, that was 2015.

1563
01:14:00.119 --> 01:14:01.800
Can you just explain it to me again?

1564
01:14:01.859 --> 01:14:09.000
And he's like, The science in Doctor Who. needs to be sensible

1565
01:14:09.000 --> 01:14:11.399
because the science of the ship itself is not.

1566
01:14:11.460 --> 01:14:13.319
So everything else needs to be sensible around it.

1567
01:14:13.380 --> 01:14:15.479
You can accept the ship, but everything else needs to follow the

1568
01:14:15.479 --> 01:14:15.840
rules.

1569
01:14:15.899 --> 01:14:17.880
And, you know, I thought he was going to talk about time or time

1570
01:14:17.880 --> 01:14:18.960
paradoxes.

1571
01:14:18.960 --> 01:14:21.720
And he's like, they would not be able to produce that much water

1572
01:14:21.720 --> 01:14:23.460
in that little time to get through the base.

1573
01:14:25.199 --> 01:14:27.659
They were creating water.

1574
01:14:27.720 --> 01:14:30.659
He's like, I get that they're creating water.

1575
01:14:30.720 --> 01:14:31.859
But 1st of all, what from?

1576
01:14:31.920 --> 01:14:37.619
But he's like, secondly, it's it's 10 feet of what, whatever it is

1577
01:14:37.739 --> 01:14:40.319
there's lots of lines about it. 10 feet of concrete that we

1578
01:14:40.319 --> 01:14:43.319
brought here without being able to pack a couple of bikes.

1579
01:14:43.380 --> 01:14:44.760
Do you know what I mean?

1580
01:14:44.819 --> 01:14:47.100
Like, I was constantly worried about how they built it.

1581
01:14:47.159 --> 01:14:51.779
You know, it did seem like they would have burnt up, you know, I

1582
01:14:51.779 --> 01:14:54.720
don't know, half of the Western Hemisphere to just get there

1583
01:14:54.779 --> 01:14:56.100
anyway.

1584
01:14:56.520 --> 01:14:58.979
All right, should we do the thing?

1585
01:14:59.039 --> 01:15:01.020
We'll do the outro.

1586
01:15:01.079 --> 01:15:05.399
I'll go, shall I throw to you and do you want to plug something or

1587
01:15:05.399 --> 01:15:06.420
something?