WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:50:37

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Hello, welcome back for the 2nd half of William Hartnell's first series.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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And I'm Richard.

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And you are listening to Flight through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast where if you've had yours, you could have lent her hers.

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Billy Fluffs.

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Just keep coming, darling.

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See, they weren't fluffs.

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They were carefully planned.

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Carefully bluffed.

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Definitely planted on the Chesterfield of reasonable comfort.

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And speaking of carefully planned, we're going straight in with that carefully planned masterpiece epic of the story, the keys of marinace.

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Now, it was my responsibility to do a lot of research and I learned a fair amount about architecture and German expressionism in preparation for this.

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Silence from this corner of the podcast.

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In preparation for this episode of the podcast.

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This was my one.

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This was allocated to me on the grounds that last episode I said that I was the only person I knew who loved this story to death.

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It is the story that does divide, if not conquer.

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Well, Precisely.

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And so I did a great deal of research into architecture and German expressionist filmmaking.

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And I found that really none of it helped at all. in any way with an understanding of how this story gets a bit front bottom-y.

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You know, I take it all on board.

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And you're getting the explicit tag.

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It is, however, a Rakoustic design.

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Is it?

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I love Mr. Kusik.

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Especially the city of, um, is it morpheton, the city of Morpheton?

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dated some of those. worked for a lot of them.

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So the idea here, um, is this is very different from, um, anything that we've really seen this series.

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I mean, the series do before.

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This is our 2nd science fiction story.

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So we've had the Daleks, we've got a 2nd size fiction story.

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The motor science fiction story, though.

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Well, that's just saying.

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I don't feel it is.

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There's a computer.

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There's a big computer.

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It's got a big thing that goes warp, warp, but it doesn't feel science fiction to me.

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But aliens.

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So it's using, let's say it's using the, like, the tropes of science fiction to tell it sort of fairly.

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See, that's where we disagree.

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I don't feel it's this story ever gets beyond drawing room 50 strong.

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No, no, no, no.

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It's good.

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It's good.

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Let me prove it.

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Okay, so, um, so we don't know what we're going to do yet.

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We've done the Daleks that knocked them out of the park by accident.

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Do you know what I mean?

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What are we going to do?

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Terry Nation back.

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We've got Ray Cucick back.

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It should be note perfect.

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And and I think it's better than people give it credit for.

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And I think part of the reason is that the show hasn't sort of betted down yet into, uh, Into stories.

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Cheers.

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Cheers.

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Cheers.

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It hasn't been it down into stories.

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You know, the idea that, you know, now from the savages onwards, there are no individual episode titles. part one, part two, part three.

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And as fans, we all think of stories that way.

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And so we think that it's the keys to Marinus and it's a six-part story.

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But of course, it isn't really that.

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What it is, it's a series of one part stories, then a two-part story, and then we go back for a sequel to the initial one part story.

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And so it's a little bit more like the 1st series of rebooted Doctor Who, where there is kind of a link between all of the episodes, but each episode is in a different place and has an individual episode title.

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And so, so, I actually think that however tiresome an individual bit of it might be, it's over quite quickly.

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Do you know what I mean?

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And you're telling stories in 25?

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Too many windows, too many revelations.

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But you know, you're telling stories in 25 minutes and so they never they never get bogged down.

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Do you know what I mean?

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And they tend to be quite simple and resolved in quite a simple way.

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And I think that's quite fun, you know?

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Um, And everyone gets a week off and so you get sort of slightly different regular cast each episode.

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And I mean, it is sort of standard tiresome Terry Nation stuff like in in the stuff on the on millennia. you know, where Ian's charged with murder.

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I think twice people inadvertently blurt out their plans.

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And then I was watching something the other day where it was in a Dalek master plan where someone inadvertently blurts out the fact that like Maddic Chan inadvertently blurts something out, you know, and ruins his whole plan or something.

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Um, You know, so it's all those sort of tiresome teen Asian things, but, but they're still not really tiresome yet.

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You know, when we've sat through a few years of Blake 7 and Destiny of the Daleks and stuff, we'll all be truly exhausted by them.

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But you're right.

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They're still new.

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They're still reasonably fresh.

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And we have some amazing cast members.

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We've got George Caluras, as straight from Awesome Wells Theatre, you know, worked with the wonderful Patrick Maguan and Mr. Wells himself, as, you know, Jane Walker.

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I was going to say, and they're redoubtable.

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Fiona, you're redoubtable.

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Francis DeWolf?

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No, I have no idea who that is.

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I saw the trapper.

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Vasor, the rapey vasor.

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It's so bizarre as well.

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And this is kids TV.

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Really, really early on.

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It's like a lot of the times, people are rapey towards Barbara, and it never towards super particular.

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They're really creepily, so yeah.

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There's a stack of it though.

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Like she's going to be forcibly married or something.

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Vasor is really chasing around that heart.

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Yeah, there is no ambiguity in that scene at all.

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No, there's not.

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And when you go back to, say, an unearthly child.

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At one point, Za sort of reaches out to her, but it's more like, you know, she's so clean and well presented.

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You don't get the impression there that it's desire or anything.

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It's curiosity.

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The 1st woman who's met, he's met with dental hygiene.

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Indeed.

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He doesn't smell like a dead cow.

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You know, they saw is so... that he treats Barbara worse than she is treated by a caveman.

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Doesn't that say at all?

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If we're going on to the whole feminist politics of this 1st season.

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Women are really there as symbols of, you know, have not been to not be raped.

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The perils of Pauline thing, put the woman in a point of crisis so that she'll appear to be vulnerable and therefore sexually attractive.

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It's pretty nasty.

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But they do.

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But then again, that's that's exactly what our culture was.

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But in a way, and I think a lot of this could come down to Verity Lambert, being such a strong woman in a male dominated industry.

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Whenever Barbara is in a situation of peril like that, she doesn't just wait to be rescued.

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Like when Vasos chasing her around.

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She throws a bowl full of steaming soup in his face.

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You know, she doesn't, she is put in those stereotypical situations.

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But she tries to fight her out.

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Inevitably, yes, she is rescued by Ian or another man.

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So Altos.

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With his little undies.

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Yes, in the snow.

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With his thighs.

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It didn't worry me, the thighs in the snow.

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Do you know what I mean?

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He has to be awfully, awfully cold.

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Well, Ian does have to rub his head.

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Oh, yes, he does.

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Which is a thoroughly unpleasant scene, of course.

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Yeah, that was sarcasm.

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But yeah, I mean, just getting back to Barbara.

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It's kind of weird because you have this tension of, yes, she is treated in a very sexist manner, but she responds in a very she responds in a very strong manner that, unfortunately, is only noticeable because of the way women are treated in adventure programs.

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But I guess, I guess I have to say that the thing is successful because it, um, it presents some really striking and memorable images, um, and the story sort of, I mean, you know, sort of mostly nonsense, really, but, but, you know, the brains with eye stalks.

137
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I think that's fantastic.

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Barbara smashes the brains with eye stalks.

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Under Beljars, 40, 50 years before Futurama.

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We have it first.

141
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Yeah.

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So, and and there's also um, someone is it Gaitus or someone who says that their 1st memory of Doctor Who is the ice soldiers waking up.

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I think it is...

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It's kind of lovely.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And again, just these sort of memorable images and they know how to sort of make memorable images.

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So the story might be a bit pants or a bit simplistic, although I was I just was never bored because I knew that this bit would be over with them, we'd be on...

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It's a play for today, done as we would have seen it episodically weekly, just as it was done in other, in many other means in many other ways on BBC and ITV.

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And I guess that's, it's blessing and for me, it's kind of cursed, that it's, it's so wonderful that it's showing the Doctor Who can do anything and be anything you want through the medium of TV. showing us what TV is.

150
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But it's also just kind of doing what other stations are doing another time slots on the beat, but already.

151
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It isn't massively inventive, but I think that's a problem this season with the science fiction stories.

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Like we essentially get 3 science fiction stories and we're alternating between historical and science fiction.

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And the 3 science fiction stories, none of them really totally work.

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And I think, I think eventually, you know, uh, that I'll find, you know, menacing monsters and stuff for an important, a threatening science, of a, of a science fiction story that works, as at work, in the Daleks.

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There's no real threatening monsters in, um, uh, keys of marinas.

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And again, sensorized don't have it either.

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And so they struggle to find out exactly what they're for.

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And like, I actually like the sense rights, as we'll discover when we get to it, I like his, Mariners, I kind of like the Daleks, but they're not, they're not what the show's eventually going to settle on us.

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Maybe not, but you see, I love sensor rights, I think.

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I feel my part of that is that I feel really strong, that the sensor rights can look dull to us now because it's such a trope, but that back then it was the 1st show, my belief, to give us the template for a real Doctor Who SF story, and it does it in a way the Daleks didn't do it.

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Yeah, alien does not equal evil.

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In a whole lot of other interesting things.

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And and talking about the aliens in case of mariners, the board.

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The big problem with the board.

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The alien lord.

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The alien board and Yartek, their leader.

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Yacht indeed.

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Is that, you know, they turn up at the Pyramid of Arbitan to take control of the conscience.

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And then the doctor and friends are sent off to find the keys.

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And it's kind of like you would expect then the board to go after them.

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So you've got someone chasing them, which, of course, Terry Nation will return to later in the 1965.

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But it's kind of old that it doesn't have...

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They just sort of, they sit there in the pyramid waiting for the others to come back, which maybe the Black Guardian was involved.

174
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No, you've got it there.

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It's the passivity of the narrative.

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This is not the how we know our characters to behave.

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I can't decide.

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I think I think the Vord don't pursue them because they belong to episodes one and six, which are separate stories. and so they're not into...

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The board don't pursue them because there's some Freudian archetype of some kinky, slippery, rubbery thing with handles on the heads that weigh before the cybermen is.

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I think they're actually one of the most sexually charged.

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They are the sexually charged archetype of this season.

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They are extraordinary.

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Don't forget.

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It's great in a hoodie.

185
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I think Yante Yante looks great in the hoodie.

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Oh, if you want to know how Yartik looks out of his hoodie, he turns up in...

187
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Sensorites with a lovely Billy Gray job and then under a lovely hairdressing...

188
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Wait, who is he?

189
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John Censoro.

190
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He's the mad astronaut. is John in censor rights kids.

191
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We are going to get to that soon.

192
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Don't forget, this is exact.

193
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I find the vaard really interesting.

194
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This is at the time, just before the perfumer scamblers, we later discovered that Prince Philip, yeah, this can get cut.

195
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There were guys standing around in wetsuits doing unspeakable things, possibly whilst Doctor Who was being played.

196
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Do you want me to redo that?

197
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Well, just... under no circumstance.

198
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No, I'll just cut it down to you referring to...

199
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So, But all of this is true.

200
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And I do think that they do represent some really kind of, they were designed to make Toya Wilcox all wibbly inside.

201
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Exactly.

202
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She does find the sidemen's sex.

203
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They're wrong on lots of levels.

204
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They're really, they're disturbing and they're really sexually charged.

205
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And it's interesting when you consider that they want to destroy the ordered society.

206
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Don't they, though?

207
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Of Marinus.

208
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They...

209
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I love them.

210
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Yeah.

211
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Well, when you look at it.

212
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And the thing is, you kind of you kind of then meet the people from all around mariners, and they're a bunch of wet fish.

213
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Although the story does give us Doctor Who's 1st female villain.

214
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Fiona Walker.

215
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Fiona Walker.

216
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The Eternal Fiona Walker, all things.

217
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Carla.

218
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Yes, Carla.

219
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All things shall soon be hers.

220
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Yes, indeed.

221
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And she, the thing is, she is easily the best guest artist in the story.

222
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Yes, season one.

223
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She's going to go out there on a lean.

224
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I think you have her.

225
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Oh, we've got the Aztecs coming up next year.

226
00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:04.259
Yeah, but that's...

227
00:15:04.259 --> 00:15:06.179
Barbara being marvellous, not?

228
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:07.740
Sorry, it's still Fiona Walker?

229
00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:09.059
Some female ghost.

230
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:09.600
She's it.

231
00:15:09.659 --> 00:15:11.879
And the thing is, you know, she is given...

232
00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:18.179
As much as I love keys of marinace, she is given not the best material to work with, like it's quite cliche.

233
00:15:18.299 --> 00:15:28.679
Which just shows how great she is with it. of a man's part, and it's being given to a woman, and much like Kathy Gale, and we keep referring to Kathy Gale, if you don't know who she is, Google.

234
00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:43.200
Even more so, she's playing Dietrich in Witness for the Prosecution. which we mentioned last week, the courtroom dramas are based very much even the cutting scenes on Billy Wilder, the great Billy Wilder, who gave us comedies such as Some Like It Hot.

235
00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:44.159
Yep.

236
00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:45.960
A whole host of others.

237
00:15:46.019 --> 00:15:47.940
Please Google him.

238
00:15:48.000 --> 00:16:10.620
Those courtroom scenes, if you don't know witness for the prosecution, Dietrich, Marlena Dietrich, and a Silk Fascinator, interestingly, has been pointed out by other critics, Billy's performances, have been likened to hers, the way that he presents the way that he reads his lines, certainly the way he works as there was a whole school of acting at that time, that you work with your eyes in cinema.

239
00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:15.779
Keep it really simple, keep your face passive, let your eyes do all of the work.

240
00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:19.259
Billy definitely does this certainly in season one.

241
00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:22.379
He follows a lot of Dietrich's tricks.

242
00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:31.799
And, um, it's worth looking at, though, if you, if you love Maron, let's look at the scenes of, um, of hope of trail because Fiona Walker is definitely lifting Dietrich's performance.

243
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:35.940
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Terry Nation was lifting, you know, the entire plot.

244
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:37.740
Romeoing us.

245
00:16:37.860 --> 00:16:42.000
I believe that Billy and Marlena Dietrich actually wore the same week for those scenes.

246
00:16:42.059 --> 00:16:44.340
Well, there's a lot of, yeah, there's a lot.

247
00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:45.480
It's not me saying it.

248
00:16:45.539 --> 00:16:46.379
I read it elsewhere.

249
00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:49.559
There's a lot of a lot of Billy's performances based on DJs.

250
00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:49.799
Yes.

251
00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:51.779
There's Detri...

252
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:52.440
Totally.

253
00:16:52.500 --> 00:16:53.100
Really?

254
00:16:53.159 --> 00:17:01.860
Dietrich built a secret train line from from Berlin to get the Jews and the poofs and the actors out.

255
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:09.779
She was the one who put most who put most of the money up for reviving this underground train line that was then buried.

256
00:17:10.140 --> 00:17:16.859
And getting up, I'll look up the facts and I'll put it on the, put it on the, on the page.

257
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:18.480
It's an extraordinary story.

258
00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:24.720
She did some amazing things in Vaima, Germany, uh, post-fine my Germany after the after Glass Ship.

259
00:17:24.779 --> 00:17:35.519
She was a real hero to theatre all around the world and to actors and her performances and her codifying her way of performing was something that was looked at.

260
00:17:35.579 --> 00:17:38.279
I'm not just throwing her in as a No, no, no, no, no, no.

261
00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:43.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah But Fiona Walker's performance is very much Dietrich's in Witness for the Prosecution.

262
00:17:43.619 --> 00:17:49.619
She's, I mean, it's apart from the fact that Fiona Walker is God's gift. story.

263
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:57.059
And again, you know, another sort of rightly reviled story, Silver Nemesis, she's fabulous.

264
00:17:57.059 --> 00:17:59.039
Fighting words.

265
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:00.480
I love silver.

266
00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:02.579
But we've got about 2 years before we do.

267
00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:06.359
If any of you are still with us or indeed still alive when we get there, yeah.

268
00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:08.880
Not if you have to go to the doctor.

269
00:18:08.940 --> 00:18:10.680
Okay, sorry, political reference.

270
00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:12.900
So are we moving on?

271
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:13.380
Oh, no.

272
00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:14.819
Oh, no, no, no, no.

273
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:15.119
Yes.

274
00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:16.319
What did ding-aling?

275
00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:17.220
What did rot say?

276
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:18.599
Nothing segment.

277
00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:20.880
Nothing funny until the censor writes.

278
00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:23.819
Okay, well, harsh criticism.

279
00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:26.339
This is Adventures with the bloke in space, isn't it?

280
00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:27.480
Well, the whole.

281
00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:28.079
Oh, well, okay.

282
00:18:28.140 --> 00:18:29.099
Shame on you, Roll.

283
00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:33.960
His comments for keys of Marinus were interesting ideas such as the acid C and subs to get through it.

284
00:18:34.019 --> 00:18:36.960
Vord looked very alien, excellent story, 7 out of 10.

285
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:44.279
I really like I really like the bit where they're outside the pyramid and people keep falling into the pyramid.

286
00:18:44.339 --> 00:18:51.839
And it's like a magic door opens and then they're in the pyramid and everyone else is wandering around outside the pyramid going, ooh, where's that other person gone?

287
00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:54.180
And then they go in the pyramid.

288
00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:55.619
Carry on marinace, really.

289
00:18:55.740 --> 00:19:03.299
And following on from Ian's wonderful education of line, line of, Do you know who we still use the word hashish in English today, Susan?

290
00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:05.220
is look at this wall.

291
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:06.119
There's no mortar.

292
00:19:06.180 --> 00:19:08.400
It must have been built with tremendous accuracy.

293
00:19:08.460 --> 00:19:14.099
And William Russell, by this point, is clearly just going, this is terrible, terrible dialogue.

294
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:15.299
I'm going to have fun.

295
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:16.680
Look at this wall.

296
00:19:16.740 --> 00:19:19.200
Do you think it was a throw into in the hashish thing?

297
00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:20.339
This is important to point out.

298
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:26.220
This is, perhaps, this is this is the point where the Beatles are starting to smoke cannabis. semi publicly.

299
00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:31.559
Okay, they're done all of the Hamburg stuff, but this is the point where they were being...

300
00:19:31.619 --> 00:19:31.980
Yeah, yeah.

301
00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:32.940
No, when this story went out.

302
00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:38.099
This is the point where they were actually being shot smoking reefers. kind of exciting kids.

303
00:19:39.059 --> 00:19:41.519
I will say, though, in that scene...

304
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.099
We don't encourage the...

305
00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:50.940
I will say, though, in that scene where Ian's getting terribly excited about the pyramid construction, he is camper than the time you played Ian.

306
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:51.420
Really?

307
00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:53.039
That's very hard to believe.

308
00:19:53.099 --> 00:20:04.799
For those of you who don't know, Nathan once played in Chesty Bond, I believe the name was, in a Doctor Who play called There's Something About Magnus, the guy who drained me more on that story.

309
00:20:04.859 --> 00:20:05.460
Oh, really?

310
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:06.240
Do we have to have that?

311
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:10.140
Thankfully, we've just had the sound meaning we need to move on to the Aztecs.

312
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:11.460
Ding, a link, ding.

313
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:14.940
Okay, so the Aztecs is mine as well.

314
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:16.740
Yeah, coincidence.

315
00:20:16.859 --> 00:20:20.400
Well, this is one of the ones where what's not to love.

316
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:21.420
Oh my god.

317
00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:23.759
No, no, no. like Seeds of Death, right?

318
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:24.779
In the...

319
00:20:24.779 --> 00:20:31.680
I put the video on and then by halfway through episode 2 hours always sort of doing the ironing or backing.

320
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:37.500
And like, I feel really terrible about it because the fan consensuses that it's sort of terribly brilliant.

321
00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:42.480
And so I'm doing it properly as I watch my way through the series now.

322
00:20:43.619 --> 00:20:52.019
And so I did sit down and I just watched it and I watched a couple, you know, watching 2 settings, paid proper attention to it.

323
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.920
And It has a lot going for it.

324
00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:57.660
You know, it's beautifully designed.

325
00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:01.619
It foregrounds Barbara, which is always a great idea.

326
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:07.259
It gives Barbara and Billy lots of time to interact and things.

327
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:09.480
There's all sorts of delightful things about it.

328
00:21:09.539 --> 00:21:24.839
But, I still have to say that I don't quite get why it received the fan adulation that it does receive and I'd be fascinated to hear you 2 charming gentlemen.

329
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:26.279
Yes, it's very controversial.

330
00:21:26.339 --> 00:21:26.880
Do you think?

331
00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:27.599
trying to be cool.

332
00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:29.640
I'm trying to not be a dick about it.

333
00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:31.079
No, no, no, you're being fine.

334
00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:32.640
But it is just wrong.

335
00:21:32.700 --> 00:21:44.579
And you know, part of it is that part of it is that stupid childish, you know, lowbrow thing that I have, which is where are the monsters, you know, like, you know, if we had the Aztecs.

336
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:46.559
So maybe some pterreleptols.

337
00:21:46.619 --> 00:21:47.460
Really?

338
00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:48.359
No, not really.

339
00:21:48.420 --> 00:21:59.099
But like I haven't, I do, I know, no, no, it's embarrassing, but the historicals thing, I actually find a bit boring because of the lack of science fiction elements.

340
00:21:59.160 --> 00:21:59.880
I'm so sorry.

341
00:21:59.940 --> 00:22:02.640
And you're an educator of yours.

342
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:03.539
I know, no, no.

343
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.000
Like the Romans is a notable exception.

344
00:22:06.059 --> 00:22:11.640
And I have to say that I recently enjoyed the myth makers as well. but great.

345
00:22:11.700 --> 00:22:13.980
See, I find that the entire opposite.

346
00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:19.920
That, that, it's an historical for me is a lot more interesting because we get to the real subtleties.

347
00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:21.480
To me, it's much closer to life.

348
00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:25.440
Once you put a bloke in a rubber suit, I'm not really in the room.

349
00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:27.180
That's when I actually turn the iron on.

350
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:32.279
So the historical to me, it just, how am I fitting into this?

351
00:22:32.339 --> 00:22:32.940
How do I feel?

352
00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:36.420
What I love about this story is that it's Barbara giving us.

353
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:38.759
It's Barbara's full entry into the narrative.

354
00:22:38.819 --> 00:22:39.839
She owns this story.

355
00:22:39.900 --> 00:22:44.700
I will always love this story because it gives Jackie Hill a chance to be front and foremost.

356
00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:48.119
And my God, if they'd called it Jackie who, I'd be, you know.

357
00:22:49.019 --> 00:22:50.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

358
00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:53.039
Yeah, he is there with Jackie Moo.

359
00:22:53.099 --> 00:22:54.539
This is for me.

360
00:22:54.660 --> 00:23:01.740
Okay, I'd like to know what everyone else thinks, but this is, for me, it's one of the 1st feminist pieces of TV I ever saw.

361
00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:08.279
And it's this season that does it for me more than, well, actually, absolutely, more than any of the others that come.

362
00:23:08.339 --> 00:23:09.240
It's about the women.

363
00:23:09.299 --> 00:23:32.220
For me, starting off, it's about Susan, as the narrative develops because Caroline Ford is so shortly served and given comes straight back from being an extraordinary extraterrestrial, us being the viewer being in the narrative to some irritating schoolchild who never varies beyond 3 emotions for the entire season until we get to sensorized.

364
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:36.480
So they're panic, hysteria, and a slightly different kind of panic.

365
00:23:36.539 --> 00:23:37.440
Got it.

366
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:39.000
In one.

367
00:23:39.059 --> 00:23:46.740
Whereas Barbara can put on something that looks exactly like one of Peter Scully's fabulous designs for Mardi Gras and look totally at home.

368
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:52.440
I will rule the world and I'll do it fairly, and this is why I love this show.

369
00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:58.140
It's how do we, in the 20th century, look at our past, it is our past.

370
00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:00.059
We are an imperial culture.

371
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:04.799
I'd like to throw in what you think about the cologne, the post-colonial aspects of this season.

372
00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:07.259
So you see, I don't think it is post-colonial.

373
00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:09.539
And I think that that's part of the problem that takes me out of it.

374
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:11.819
Yeah, Barbara is trying to colonise, isn't she?

375
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:13.140
But no, no, no.

376
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:15.720
I thought she's narrating the, please go on.

377
00:24:15.779 --> 00:24:30.779
Well, because I think that the problem is that the narrative explicitly says that the reason that the Aztec society is doomed at the hands of Cortez is because it's immoral, because they have human sacrifice.

378
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:35.039
And so when Cortez comes along, he'll be a moral...

379
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:36.900
With his kind, gentle slaughtering way.

380
00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:38.039
Yeah, yeah. you know what I mean?

381
00:24:38.099 --> 00:24:38.940
He'll be a moral force.

382
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:40.680
And so there is a kind of...

383
00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:42.599
Pretty close for us Australian viewers. you know?

384
00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:54.000
Well, there is a kind of post-colonial thing in that, you know, it's set in the new world. all of the characters are, you know, non-European and so on.

385
00:24:54.059 --> 00:25:02.940
But the, the explanation for, for the fall of Aztec society is so horrible.

386
00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:03.960
Do you know what I mean?

387
00:25:04.019 --> 00:25:05.220
It's so dark.

388
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:10.680
No, no, I'm saying it's just historically wrong and neurocentric.

389
00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:19.859
Like Cortez doesn't, doesn't triumph because he brings superior European values that outclass the Aztecs.

390
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:23.220
And as tech society doesn't fall because it has human sacrifice.

391
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:26.400
Aztec society falls because ruthless people with steel.

392
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:27.299
Exactly, and horses.

393
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:31.680
Because Cortez brings guns, germs, and steel as Jared Diamond Rose.

394
00:25:31.740 --> 00:25:33.059
It's a great book if you haven't read it.

395
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:38.700
I don't believe this narrative gives us anything other than complete damnation of European copies.

396
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:48.420
No, no, I don't think no, Barbara Barbara explicitly says that the reason that she wants to put a stop to the human sacrifices is so that there's some hope that this...

397
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:49.920
The Cortes will be curtailed.

398
00:25:50.940 --> 00:25:55.680
So Barbara there, she is a colonising force, but she's trying to bring the best of colonialism.

399
00:25:55.740 --> 00:26:03.779
But she's trying to bring the idea of civilisation and not civilisation such as we will come and use your land and you will serve us.

400
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:08.099
She's trying to bring, look, in our civilisation, we don't kill people.

401
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:12.539
Which, of course, in England at the time, they still did for murder.

402
00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:15.299
Well, oh, no.

403
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:16.259
Derek Bentley.

404
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:17.460
Only just.

405
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:18.240
Only just.

406
00:26:18.299 --> 00:26:24.539
But yeah, but you're right, because it was a major point of discussion. in British politics and media at the time.

407
00:26:24.660 --> 00:26:25.799
And of course, you know what?

408
00:26:25.859 --> 00:26:30.359
Barbara probably would not support that in the slightest, yeah.

409
00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:32.940
But the thing, she's trying to bring this whole thing of...

410
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:34.200
Did we mention we love Barbara?

411
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:34.740
Oh, we do.

412
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:36.420
Really, do we?

413
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:38.099
I'm kidding.

414
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:39.900
But she's trying to bring this whole thing off.

415
00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:42.660
You know, I'm not going to bring the subjugation of colonialism.

416
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:45.720
I'm going to bring the fact that you do not need to kill people to make rain.

417
00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:47.279
I'm going to bring education.

418
00:26:47.339 --> 00:26:48.539
That's why it's exciting.

419
00:26:48.660 --> 00:26:51.779
And it's Barbara, the history teacher saying, I'm going to bring science to these people.

420
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:55.140
Yeah, and Ian, you can just shut up for four. exactly.

421
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:57.000
It kind of does, does it?

422
00:26:57.059 --> 00:26:57.420
Yeah, he does.

423
00:26:57.480 --> 00:26:58.980
He doesn't fight.

424
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:04.019
Yeah, and there's a lot of short skirtiness and thigh action and it's kind of good.

425
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:08.339
Why is he better than the sort of Aztec Warriors at fun just because he's our leader?

426
00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:09.240
Better fed and taller.

427
00:27:09.299 --> 00:27:09.900
No, come on.

428
00:27:09.900 --> 00:27:11.940
And the implication that...

429
00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:15.900
And he's watched a lot of TV, so and he was in Ivanhook, so he knows what to do.

430
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:23.279
The implication that Paul Cornell keep Keith topping and Martin Day bring in the discontinuity guide is it ended national service.

431
00:27:23.339 --> 00:27:24.480
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.

432
00:27:24.539 --> 00:27:25.440
Oh, that's right.

433
00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:27.420
He's had hand-to-hand training.

434
00:27:27.539 --> 00:27:28.980
He's done self- defence. gentleman.

435
00:27:29.099 --> 00:27:35.339
And that means, you know, that he can hit someone with his thumb on their shoulder blade, hit a nerve, and they'll fall down, which is...

436
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:36.720
Oh, Star Trek is still free.

437
00:27:36.779 --> 00:27:37.680
Star Trek. yes.

438
00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:41.940
But that brings me to what I particularly love about the story.

439
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:45.000
Of course, you've got all the Barbara brilliantness of it.

440
00:27:45.059 --> 00:27:46.140
Brilliantness.

441
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:47.640
Yeah, yeah, brilliant.

442
00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:48.779
Theology is a frightening.

443
00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:49.440
That's a word.

444
00:27:49.500 --> 00:27:50.039
Brilliant.

445
00:27:50.099 --> 00:27:59.400
Um, But what you've also got is all of The supporting characters are characters, even...

446
00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:00.359
What you mean, they're not real?

447
00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:02.819
Can I just say clutoxyl?

448
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:03.599
Clutoxyl?

449
00:28:04.019 --> 00:28:05.579
Could you say that again?

450
00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:06.599
I just got a little warm.

451
00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:08.220
Can you actually say it?

452
00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:11.460
It's Quexal codal for us kids who just read it out of the book.

453
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:14.940
Um, but even even Clotoxel.

454
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:16.200
He's not just...

455
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:18.720
It's a bilateral...

456
00:28:18.779 --> 00:28:20.279
No, it really is.

457
00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:22.140
I'm paid to know this.

458
00:28:22.140 --> 00:28:23.700
I'm going to be using that.

459
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:25.259
Everyday parts?

460
00:28:25.500 --> 00:28:32.759
So Toxel is not just a villain who doesn't like the hero, so he's going to be the villain.

461
00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:36.000
He genuinely believes that this will be the end of his civilisation.

462
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:42.180
Yeah, and if we follow new and... social imperative for opposing Barbara.

463
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:45.059
You know, Barbara says at one point... your taxel?

464
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:45.599
How we pronounce?

465
00:28:45.660 --> 00:28:46.380
You tax her.

466
00:28:46.380 --> 00:28:47.279
You tax her.

467
00:28:47.339 --> 00:28:48.000
Who are we talking about?

468
00:28:48.059 --> 00:28:49.319
Barbara's...

469
00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:50.039
Barbara's taxa.

470
00:28:50.099 --> 00:28:50.819
New taxer.

471
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:55.259
Barbara does say at one point, oh, you know, he just wants power, but I don't think he does.

472
00:28:55.319 --> 00:29:00.180
I think he genuinely believes that if they follow Yetux's teachings, will all die.

473
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:04.259
So he really does the people, as well as she's trying to protect the people.

474
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:10.140
And then you've got Ortlock, you know, who's his beautiful soul who's ready to listen to Barbara, but no one's ready to listen to him.

475
00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:11.279
Yeah exactly.

476
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:17.579
So you've got all these characters. who are well-drawn characters in their own right.

477
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:23.880
And the villain is not actually a villain. within the social constraints of his...

478
00:29:23.940 --> 00:29:27.960
Yeah, it's like everyone is trying to do the best they can, not just for themselves, but for their culture.

479
00:29:28.019 --> 00:29:28.859
Except for him.

480
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:31.319
Well, he's fighting.

481
00:29:31.380 --> 00:29:32.519
Fighting away.

482
00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:35.640
He gets to actually be the bit of skirt in this.

483
00:29:35.700 --> 00:29:37.559
That's another reason why I love it.

484
00:29:37.619 --> 00:29:40.440
The bloke is right down there just performing a role.

485
00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:43.619
No one has mentioned Coutura.

486
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:45.000
Kameka.

487
00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:46.559
Well, it's the same thing, isn't it?

488
00:29:46.619 --> 00:29:47.339
Isn't the same thing?

489
00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:49.200
She becomes couture later, yeah.

490
00:29:49.259 --> 00:29:51.059
But yes, Jamaica, 0 my God.

491
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:53.819
But Billy has his little bit of romantic for a song.

492
00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:55.740
It's really sweet.

493
00:29:55.799 --> 00:29:58.019
I don't mind admitting I cry at the end.

494
00:29:59.700 --> 00:30:01.920
Tom Silvera is delicious in this.

495
00:30:02.819 --> 00:30:03.539
It's not...

496
00:30:03.539 --> 00:30:05.099
Sorry, it's Margo Vanderberg.

497
00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:05.640
Margaret.

498
00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:06.599
Margaret.

499
00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:08.220
For me, it's always a low, low.

500
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:13.319
I'm projecting.

501
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:14.460
I'm projecting, yeah.

502
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:17.279
You're right, and she's and she's lovely.

503
00:30:17.339 --> 00:30:18.359
She is terrific.

504
00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:19.319
And there is that thing.

505
00:30:19.380 --> 00:30:31.920
Like, you remember the rumours that when the 5 doctors came out, um, was being made, John Nathan Turner was going to prevent Carol Anne Ford calling the doctor.

506
00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:33.240
Grandfather.

507
00:30:33.299 --> 00:30:37.680
Yes, it was just a good newman, because he had to be just like a Doctor Who fan, otherwise.

508
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:40.319
Because he's a Barbie doll when you take his pocket.

509
00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:42.539
We would lose audience identification.

510
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:51.420
But, and so they always sort of reconned or, you know, there was this sort of lack of, it was not comfortable.

511
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:55.920
I think Derek Saywood wrote a short story where she was actually lady Lan from the dark times.

512
00:30:55.980 --> 00:30:58.259
God, I hate 5 dogs.

513
00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:01.799
But and we weren't really flirting or anything like that.

514
00:31:01.859 --> 00:31:07.440
But you look at it in context and it's really terribly sweet and Billy's quite smitten.

515
00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:09.299
It's still, it's just...

516
00:31:09.299 --> 00:31:12.660
It's too elderly people who have both clearly lost people they've cared about.

517
00:31:12.660 --> 00:31:16.319
Suddenly going, here is someone intelligent and worthy of me.

518
00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:26.339
And coming back to something you were saying, Richard, about the strength of women in this season, when Kameka realises the doctor is leaving and he won't be coming back, she doesn't cry.

519
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:32.880
She doesn't throw herself at his feet or, you know, all of the female tropes that you would get in films around that time.

520
00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:38.519
She just turns, turns away and then turns back. and just says, just think of me.

521
00:31:38.579 --> 00:31:42.900
And walks off and goes back to her garden and...

522
00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:49.019
It's probably worth noting it at this point that we've just had this week, the passing of Maya Angelou.

523
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:49.380
Yes.

524
00:31:49.380 --> 00:32:08.880
The wonderful, glorious American writer and human rights activist who's whose words actually mirror this moment in that you own whatever pain, whatever grief, and you rise from it, and you take pride in whatever comes to you because it just makes you stronger.

525
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:10.140
Rise like a phoenix.

526
00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:10.740
You do.

527
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:13.559
She's really worth reading if you haven't read her.

528
00:32:13.619 --> 00:32:14.819
I love everything she says.

529
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:17.700
And it's poignant and powerful, and my goodness.

530
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:19.259
Strong black women.

531
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:19.799
It's one word.

532
00:32:19.859 --> 00:32:22.319
She really owns it.

533
00:32:22.380 --> 00:32:29.279
And those moments hashtag, those moments between Billy, and you're right, and come back, some of my favourite in the whole series.

534
00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:31.380
So maybe I do like it.

535
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:32.759
I think you do it.

536
00:32:32.819 --> 00:32:37.259
That's all I've got from what you've saying is I actually would like to know why you don't like it.

537
00:32:37.619 --> 00:32:38.819
Because I know that so much.

538
00:32:38.819 --> 00:32:40.799
Because it'd be better if it had a saltari in it.

539
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:43.799
It's got great.

540
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:45.119
It's got amazing drag.

541
00:32:45.180 --> 00:32:46.019
Is that okay?

542
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:46.920
All right.

543
00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:51.720
And just to close out, I will say, because I'm going to send this link to him.

544
00:32:51.779 --> 00:32:55.740
I have spoken to Ian Cullen over the internet who played Exter.

545
00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:56.519
Golly gosh.

546
00:32:56.579 --> 00:32:59.880
And he is an absolutely lovely, lovely chap.

547
00:32:59.940 --> 00:33:05.400
He's actually, um, what happened was we were talk, I was talking about the audios I do with Planet Scar of Audios.

548
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:07.259
And he said, gosh, they sound frightfully interesting.

549
00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:12.299
And we started talking about those and he said, look, you know, if I'm ever available, that might be rather fun.

550
00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:12.839
Wow.

551
00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:14.039
And so even...

552
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:14.460
He's in.

553
00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:15.240
Hello, you're in.

554
00:33:15.900 --> 00:33:18.059
Which one was extra again?

555
00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:19.740
The one fighting Ian.

556
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:20.940
Oh, the hotty.

557
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:21.839
Yes, the hottie.

558
00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:23.220
Oh, and actually...

559
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:24.660
That brings me to...

560
00:33:24.779 --> 00:33:26.819
That brings me to another one of Rod's comments.

561
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:27.839
Hello, Rod.

562
00:33:27.900 --> 00:33:36.059
Which comes from the scene where Ian sneaks out to go through the tunnel and then next locks him in because of course they're both sleeping on the same floor.

563
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:41.099
And Rod's response was, God, why wasn't the camera here 10 minutes?

564
00:33:41.220 --> 00:33:48.900
Oh, and there's, I mean, can we just say that Rod thought that the Daleks was homoerotic?

565
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:51.960
Well, was that...

566
00:33:52.019 --> 00:33:52.920
No, no, that was correct.

567
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:54.779
No, that was him.

568
00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:57.000
And I think hastily moving along.

569
00:33:57.059 --> 00:33:58.380
Oh, yes, there it is.

570
00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:00.960
It's time for the censor rights, Richard.

571
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:04.619
The censorites for how do we all feel about the centre rights?

572
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:13.679
Well, I feel that an analysis of the sense rights would benefit enormously from detailed knowledge of architectural styles and German experience.

573
00:34:13.739 --> 00:34:18.780
And thankfully, the moment has been prepared for.

574
00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:24.840
And I know, I know it's not 18th century grammatically correct to end with a...

575
00:34:24.900 --> 00:34:25.679
Thank you, boys.

576
00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:27.059
Let's preposition the preposition.

577
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:33.960
I bleep iTunes love this story on so many levels.

578
00:34:34.019 --> 00:34:37.619
I love the orange headed 5 foot 5 aliens in the gimp suits.

579
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:38.280
I love them.

580
00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:39.179
They are actually orange.

581
00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:40.980
Hello, darling. glad you're here.

582
00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:43.139
When are we going to hit the cosplay in the sense?

583
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:44.519
I really love this story.

584
00:34:44.579 --> 00:34:48.539
I love this story for all the reasons of my political narkiness that it ticks all the boxes.

585
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:51.599
I believe it is essentially post-colonial.

586
00:34:51.659 --> 00:34:55.619
It does throw up a whole lot of things that are going on at the time.

587
00:34:55.739 --> 00:34:59.159
It really references just why I love this whole 1st season of Doctor Who.

588
00:34:59.219 --> 00:35:00.840
And honestly, I started watching.

589
00:35:00.900 --> 00:35:06.539
Have we actually discussed this, gentlemen, when we 1st started watching Doctor Who, what was our 1st remembered story?

590
00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:09.179
Well, my 1st remembered story.

591
00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:13.139
Don't buy for this anyone over, so it was Rose.

592
00:35:14.460 --> 00:35:19.800
And, well, you must you must remember, I was born in a certain age when they were lost. lots of repeats.

593
00:35:19.860 --> 00:35:24.420
So my 1st remembered story is Carnival of Monsters.

594
00:35:24.420 --> 00:35:25.920
That's not a bad place to start.

595
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:31.619
Specifically the Cliffhanger to episode 3 where John Pertwee stumbles out of the Minoscope collapses.

596
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:33.179
Oh, that's quite a good one.

597
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:35.639
My 1st one is on Death of the Daleks.

598
00:35:35.699 --> 00:35:37.860
That was on repeat as well.

599
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:39.119
That was repeat as well.

600
00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:44.340
But, um, but yeah, uh, season 11 is not a great place to start.

601
00:35:44.400 --> 00:36:02.579
But I've got to say, as the original generation of viewers here, my 1st live broadcast in Australia, pure memory is getting totally hooked on, Planet of the Spiders, and watching it from episode one to 6 as a child in primary school, so it was 1975.

602
00:36:02.699 --> 00:36:03.480
I think we got it out here.

603
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:10.920
Absolutely hooked, so mesmeric, John Durth, as the master we should have had after Delgado left.

604
00:36:10.980 --> 00:36:12.000
I think he's extraordinary.

605
00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:22.800
So much in that, plunder the spiders and the score and all the rest, and we haven't actually had our Jenny Laird moment, this podcast, but we know, well, that will come up along with the recommendations.

606
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:24.719
Because we can only have one per season.

607
00:36:24.780 --> 00:36:27.719
So yeah, please stay listening because it just gets better.

608
00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:35.159
Just to segue from a, before we get back to the sensor rights, have you chaps seen that thing online at the moment, your Doctor Who horoscope?

609
00:36:35.219 --> 00:36:38.639
You put in your date of birth and it tells you the nearest story broadcast, your date of birth?

610
00:36:38.699 --> 00:36:39.659
I think on war games.

611
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:42.840
I would, I'm actually too, I think.

612
00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:43.920
Tomb of the Cyberman.

613
00:36:43.980 --> 00:36:44.880
Very happy to say that.

614
00:36:44.940 --> 00:36:45.900
I know.

615
00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:47.820
I thought you were a Hartnell baby.

616
00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:51.239
No, I... outrageous suggestion.

617
00:36:51.300 --> 00:36:53.460
No, I'm 67, so I think in the UK.

618
00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:57.900
But here in Australia, I think we were a season or two.

619
00:36:57.960 --> 00:36:59.699
We were a bit from Australia, yeah.

620
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:03.059
Well, fun, funnily enough, with...

621
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:07.860
With with fast tracking as it was then, about 6 months.

622
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:12.480
I whether you look at the UK or Australia, I'm actually the 5 doctors.

623
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:23.219
Although if you go with what was broadcast just before me, just a week before my birthday, it's a repeat of Terror of the Zygons part one.

624
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:24.360
So either way, I'm in good company.

625
00:37:24.420 --> 00:37:28.920
No, I think 5 doctors counts, I remember 5 doctors vividly, for God's sake.

626
00:37:28.980 --> 00:37:30.360
You were in utero.

627
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:31.860
No, no, five.

628
00:37:31.860 --> 00:37:34.199
Recently emerged ex-U. I was 2 months old.

629
00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:35.579
Five doctors were a podcast.

630
00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:37.980
I think the 18th of December.

631
00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:38.760
Don't quote me.

632
00:37:38.820 --> 00:37:42.840
Anyone from my broad DW cast might be able to confirm that.

633
00:37:42.900 --> 00:37:43.800
Right?

634
00:37:43.860 --> 00:37:50.579
Well, I just want to throw that in, but I felt that if I...

635
00:37:50.579 --> 00:37:52.380
I need to know how old we are.

636
00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:58.980
Yeah, it's kind of hard to know us is to love us. as French Spiner would say.

637
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:00.599
Who's never in doctor?

638
00:38:00.659 --> 00:38:01.800
Okay, so what were you talking about?

639
00:38:01.860 --> 00:38:04.199
If I'd started watching in 63.

640
00:38:04.380 --> 00:38:06.000
I've got to say this is still 64.

641
00:38:06.179 --> 00:38:08.099
This is still probably my favourite season.

642
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:13.920
Just because it sets everything up and because it has such purity of narrative and introspection.

643
00:38:13.980 --> 00:38:17.340
It's got some amazing people talking, working behind it.

644
00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:23.699
We talked to the 1st podcast if The story was not called an earthly child.

645
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:27.360
I thought it had to be called a little queer simply because it is on so many levels.

646
00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:28.980
Susan is so odd.

647
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:35.880
Um, really uncomfortably odd, just like most teenage girls with a, you know, introspective attitude.

648
00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:45.480
It was Julie Birchill, if anyone remembers NME, new musical express, the paper for new music in the 80s when everything was good and great and lush and actually still dangerous.

649
00:38:45.539 --> 00:38:56.280
She said, famously, that if anyone, any one of you didn't spend their 13th summer school holidays locked in their bedroom listening to music and hating the world.

650
00:38:56.340 --> 00:38:57.539
I had nothing to say to you.

651
00:38:57.599 --> 00:38:59.099
Don't read my colon.

652
00:38:59.159 --> 00:39:01.019
I'm totally with her on that.

653
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:04.380
This is this is the season where we set everything up.

654
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:05.880
We examine everything that's fresh.

655
00:39:05.940 --> 00:39:06.539
It's new.

656
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:07.619
It's exciting.

657
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:12.780
And we're also pointing at the rest of the world around us and saying, what's not working out there.

658
00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:13.980
What's uncomfortable?

659
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:16.619
The sensor rights is doing everything like this for me.

660
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:23.760
Um, okay, politically, you kind of got the 2 levels of what's happening on outside.

661
00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:35.940
You've got political crises, as we mentioned earlier, with Mao's great leap forward in 58, that whole pogrom are totally against the people and taking the food and slaughtering between 50 and 70 million.

662
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:41.460
Britain was just, with reportage being slower in those days and coming larger likely through print media.

663
00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:43.980
We were just starting to get to read about this.

664
00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:45.599
It was kind of threatening.

665
00:39:45.659 --> 00:39:49.739
We were also as part of an Australia very much part of the Commonwealth.

666
00:39:49.860 --> 00:39:52.920
Very much still part of the British Empire.

667
00:39:52.980 --> 00:39:59.039
The Queen had only visited for Australian viewers 10 years before, and it was still very much in our mind.

668
00:39:59.099 --> 00:40:02.039
Robert Lindsey's was still our prime minister.

669
00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:12.599
We were even we weren't perhaps as conservative as our current government would have us be now, but we were certainly very much of the past and of the empire.

670
00:40:12.659 --> 00:40:20.219
This is a story, the sensor rights, that looks at what it is to be a colonial empire and what it is to let go of it.

671
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:25.380
Why I really love this story is it's the 1st one to see, we mentioned post-colonialism before.

672
00:40:25.500 --> 00:40:28.320
The 1st one to see aliens as not other.

673
00:40:28.380 --> 00:40:33.780
But actually as people that come up 1st off as something strange and unusual.

674
00:40:33.780 --> 00:40:38.760
And I love the way the 1st episode's filmed in that very somnambulistic style.

675
00:40:38.820 --> 00:40:47.820
It feels like I'm that state of of being awake and being asleep, like a David Lynch film, where I'm watching this thing.

676
00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:50.880
But it doesn't feel like it's in real time.

677
00:40:50.940 --> 00:40:52.019
It's so hazy.

678
00:40:52.079 --> 00:41:03.420
It's so, it feels like not just the way it's shot and not just the lighting, but the way the actors behave, Maitland especially, the chief pilot has been criticised as being one of the worst actors in Doctor Who.

679
00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:09.360
I really love him because it's there's a sense of when they're just waking up out of the soporific state.

680
00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:13.260
Have you seen Cabinet of Dr. Kalagari?

681
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:17.880
Yeah, it's Robert Avina, I believe it's pronounced, stop sniggering.

682
00:41:17.940 --> 00:41:23.880
Conrad Vice, amazing, amazing German expression of cinema, very similar lighting, similar set.

683
00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:24.719
That is.

684
00:41:24.780 --> 00:41:27.960
Thank you, ding-a-ling-a-ling. everyone We've got it.

685
00:41:28.019 --> 00:41:28.800
We've got it.

686
00:41:29.099 --> 00:41:30.780
There's a lot of that around in Britain at the time.

687
00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:32.579
We'll move on, I promise. eventually.

688
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:35.099
Gorgeous set.

689
00:41:35.099 --> 00:41:37.019
I love that the...

690
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:41.639
I love that again, we're looking at our recent history and I love, again, Reiku's success design.

691
00:41:41.699 --> 00:41:48.599
This isn't a quasi-futuristic, fabulous spaceship of all silvery George Powell, day the Earth stood still intent.

692
00:41:48.659 --> 00:41:50.880
This is a Lancaster Bomber.

693
00:41:50.940 --> 00:41:59.699
It's got bolt holes in, yes, circular, circular doorways, but it's a really mechanical functionary, ordinary ship.

694
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:01.139
There's nothing glamorous about it.

695
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:05.820
Even the uniforms, it's functional.

696
00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:10.619
What I love, what I love so much about it is that it's a zip up the back.

697
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:12.960
You can't, like, just like the sensory.

698
00:42:13.019 --> 00:42:13.739
Just like a mandrill.

699
00:42:13.860 --> 00:42:15.539
All those kind of lights themselves.

700
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:18.960
Just like start a generation. you kind of go, how do you reach?

701
00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:21.239
That's it. it every morning.

702
00:42:21.300 --> 00:42:22.440
Yeah, exactly.

703
00:42:22.500 --> 00:42:23.159
Not exactly.

704
00:42:23.219 --> 00:42:24.360
Oh, God, I'm Janet Fielding.

705
00:42:24.420 --> 00:42:25.679
I'm talking about clothes.

706
00:42:25.739 --> 00:42:27.539
I've never ever wondered that before.

707
00:42:27.659 --> 00:42:28.860
Years of Star Trek.

708
00:42:29.460 --> 00:42:31.320
Is it just me?

709
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:35.880
Or is it possible in episode one just to raise the intellectual tone?

710
00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:41.579
Is it possible that you can see a censorite Willie through the costume?

711
00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:46.739
Oh, the John Hamm meme of... of a budget?

712
00:42:48.300 --> 00:42:50.219
Well, you know what they say about censor right's feet?

713
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:51.000
Ah.

714
00:42:51.059 --> 00:42:52.619
No, I'm sure that you can.

715
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:57.300
There's like one shot where they, the sensor rights like walk through the shot and they're sort of shot.

716
00:42:57.360 --> 00:42:58.679
You shoot their car.

717
00:42:58.679 --> 00:42:59.940
Oh, yeah, are you talking?

718
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:00.840
No, it's true.

719
00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:10.860
And I'm sure that I'm sure that they got more heavy duty underpants for the later, like the later episodes, but there is a definite, there is a definite willy.

720
00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:12.960
So much to read into.

721
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:15.480
As, as one says to an od.

722
00:43:15.539 --> 00:43:18.179
Is that your translator or be you just happy to say?

723
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:19.079
Hey, hooray.

724
00:43:19.139 --> 00:43:25.980
What I also really like about this story and why it's really important for me is that it's the problem of Susan is re-engaged.

725
00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:37.619
This is the 1st story written by this extraordinary man, Peter Newman, and if you haven't seen the Doco, the lovely...

726
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:40.500
Well, I love Toby Hado. everything he does.

727
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:43.320
But the documentary is so poignant and so kind of sad.

728
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:45.480
He didn't have a great life.

729
00:43:45.539 --> 00:43:54.480
But the writer of this, apart from the fact that he'd gone through the war and had this really peripatetic lifestyle of just, you know, odd jobs.

730
00:43:54.480 --> 00:44:06.239
And I really wanted to break into theatre writing and TV writing and this is his 1st kind of crack at TV, which starts off really well and ends up really Agatha Christie 1955 in the later episodes.

731
00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:07.920
But for the 1st two, I really love it.

732
00:44:07.980 --> 00:44:18.360
Um, and one of the things I really like about it is that he is the 1st writer to have seen the show going out and seeing what, not just getting the note, the writer's notes.

733
00:44:18.420 --> 00:44:19.619
This was scripted.

734
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:22.679
Yeah, this was scripted after he'd seen the Daleks.

735
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:25.619
So the 1st 2 stories had gone out.

736
00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:34.679
So we're getting a much more interesting play on Billy on the doctor's role and when we get later on to episode four, I'll talk more about that.

737
00:44:34.739 --> 00:44:39.119
But what I really like is that Susan is actually read as still being interesting.

738
00:44:39.179 --> 00:44:43.079
Yeah, this is actually, I have to agree with that.

739
00:44:43.139 --> 00:44:44.699
This might be Susan's best story.

740
00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:50.460
And partly that's because, um, which is off for a week or two.

741
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:52.860
No, no, it's hard.

742
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:54.360
Barbara's off getting a lovely test.

743
00:44:54.539 --> 00:44:57.659
Lovely sunray treatment on this.

744
00:44:57.659 --> 00:45:02.340
Yeah, who knew that this really functional submarine of a spaceship had a tanning wheel?

745
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:03.719
No, they actually would have to.

746
00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:05.159
Vitamin D. Very true.

747
00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:07.920
Relaxing, cheer. you're trying to justify it.

748
00:45:07.980 --> 00:45:10.260
No, no, you would have to do that.

749
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:10.860
It makes sense.

750
00:45:10.860 --> 00:45:18.780
You would have to do it in diagetic terms. as well as Susan being very well written in the story and having this psychic ability to play on.

751
00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:19.619
She's interesting.

752
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:20.099
Yeah, yeah.

753
00:45:20.579 --> 00:45:22.500
Well, you remember, you were talking about this last time.

754
00:45:22.860 --> 00:45:30.539
The premise of her character is that she would have exotic extraordinary clothes, not just the Vidalsis in haircut kids, but she'd also have telepathic abilities.

755
00:45:30.539 --> 00:45:41.099
And, well, you know, not only that, but that then gives, because, you know, Ian has managed to save everyone by being strong and the doctors managed to save everyone by being intelligent.

756
00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:44.099
Barbara's managed to save everyone by trying to bring culture to the Aztecs.

757
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:47.400
And finally, Susan is able to save everyone.

758
00:45:47.460 --> 00:45:57.179
And the thing is, when Susan does it, she actually goes, not only am I going to save you, I'm going to make myself a hostage to save you because that's the only way, which is amazingly brave.

759
00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:09.119
And Carolan Ford really rises to the material because, you know, you can tell, especially in Keys of Marinus and the Aztecs, she's getting bored, which is understandable because she's been promised this great part with nothing to do.

760
00:46:09.179 --> 00:46:18.539
Suddenly the censor rights comes along, which is maybe not the greatest story ever written, but she is given such wonderful, heroic, intelligent, interesting stuff to do.

761
00:46:18.599 --> 00:46:20.760
And she just goes, I'm going to act my socks off.

762
00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:24.780
Fortunately, though, next month, she'll be back to being a panicky idiot.

763
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:25.500
And you know why?

764
00:46:25.559 --> 00:46:26.579
Billy.

765
00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:27.960
And it's not actually Billy.

766
00:46:28.019 --> 00:46:28.980
I should say the doctor.

767
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:33.719
There's a really interesting structure here, but it's so good.

768
00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:42.300
A young person achieving a voice finding her voice, finding her role is cut down immediately.

769
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:53.639
I've never seen that, until this point, the doctor being so angry and so hostile. from this pendulum ridiculousness of, oh, we never argue, speaking of his granddaughter.

770
00:46:53.699 --> 00:46:59.280
He completely shuts her down when she says, I'm going to go to the planet and I'm going to, actually, lead the narrative and I'm going to actually sort this out.

771
00:46:59.340 --> 00:47:01.500
You will not contradict me.

772
00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:02.519
You're my granddaughter.

773
00:47:02.579 --> 00:47:04.679
You're not, you know, you don't have adulthood.

774
00:47:04.739 --> 00:47:05.400
You're a child.

775
00:47:05.460 --> 00:47:11.099
You can really see that moment where Carol Anne Ford as well as Susan says, I am so out of here.

776
00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:13.380
This is just not.

777
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:14.519
I've got no room to move.

778
00:47:14.579 --> 00:47:16.139
I've got no room to be anything.

779
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:18.900
I'm wearing Alice in Wonderland white socks.

780
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:21.840
I'm having to stand here in a pinafore and take this grab.

781
00:47:21.900 --> 00:47:23.820
She, you can really see.

782
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:26.639
Is it episode 4 that wears Carol Anne 4?

783
00:47:26.699 --> 00:47:28.739
you can see in their face thinking this is not going anywhere.

784
00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:38.280
And it perfectly mirrors the situation between her grandfather and the granddaughter is the power play, the polemics between the elder.

785
00:47:38.340 --> 00:47:40.139
It's lovely that the parents in this.

786
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:42.900
This is why, I think this has such electricity this season.

787
00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:52.380
The parents are dissociated and adopted, and it's actually the grandfather and the granddaughter who have had to adopt parental models into their family unit.

788
00:47:52.440 --> 00:48:00.059
And Ian and Barbara are constantly, sort of, Susan's talking to them and saying grandfather's being very difficult and they're saying, Susan, okay, we'll have a word with him.

789
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:00.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

790
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:02.519
They're the moderator.

791
00:48:02.579 --> 00:48:04.920
Yeah, they are. the parents that the family unit didn't have.

792
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:15.119
And the grandfather being curmudgeonly and brilliant and having all the power because he's got the keys to Nani's wardrobe says, no, no, that's I will rewrite the scene at every moment.

793
00:48:15.179 --> 00:48:21.599
What is so lovely about this story is the 1st time in episode four, we get the doctor actually acting as the doctor.

794
00:48:21.659 --> 00:48:26.519
That's what I meant before when I said it's interesting that we've got the 1st script that doesn't just come from liner notes.

795
00:48:26.579 --> 00:48:38.579
Peter Newman says, the doctor will stay on the planet after he solved the water crisis after the cultures, you know, after the story plot has been resolved, simply to assist the narrative and be a good person.

796
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:39.360
Yeah.

797
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:48.360
But at the same time, the only way he can achieve that is by completely denigrating the Susan character to the point that she has nowhere to go anymore.

798
00:48:48.420 --> 00:48:50.699
She grows and then she's bonsai.

799
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:55.619
And even in the last scene, she says, oh, grandfather, I can't use telepathy anymore.

800
00:48:55.679 --> 00:48:58.199
Oh, no, darling, that's just the influence of the planet.

801
00:48:58.260 --> 00:48:59.460
And I was like, why?

802
00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:00.360
Why?

803
00:49:00.420 --> 00:49:02.519
Because screw you, you're not going to get in charge.

804
00:49:02.579 --> 00:49:06.780
This is why I hate 5 doctors because this is after so many years.

805
00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:07.920
She's back.

806
00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:13.679
She's the, she's the vestigial force of this narrative to start off with.

807
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:17.699
She stands in the TARDIS and looking pleadingly at Peter for recognition.

808
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:18.300
Yeah, yeah.

809
00:49:18.300 --> 00:49:21.000
And Peter Davidson completely ignores her.

810
00:49:21.059 --> 00:49:24.599
I hated that in 1983 and I still hated that.

811
00:49:24.659 --> 00:49:26.340
It's terrible. and it's what we said before.

812
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:31.860
But it is, it is that thing where they wanted to, they wanted to airbrush over that, Grant.

813
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:33.539
Yeah, because that was JNT.

814
00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:34.019
Yeah, yeah.

815
00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:37.860
And it didn't fit into our neat, you know, list of 38 companions.

816
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:39.599
Yeah, whatever.

817
00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:42.059
Anyway, um, Yeah, yeah.

818
00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:46.739
So I think like that's a great lost opportunity. will never ever happen now.

819
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:50.280
Can you imagine Russell T. Davies reuniting Susan and the doctor and not having it done?

820
00:49:50.340 --> 00:49:52.679
This is why I'm so grateful to Russell.

821
00:49:52.739 --> 00:49:57.239
Well, Susan, when she turns up in the Paul McGann audios, it's a brilliant dynamic.

822
00:49:57.300 --> 00:50:00.840
Can we we'll name those at the end as our choices because yes, I was going to say that.

823
00:50:00.900 --> 00:50:01.920
I love these ones.

824
00:50:01.980 --> 00:50:03.119
Oh, okay.

825
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:10.440
But yeah, there's this great tension between the fact that, you know, she, Susan is now in her 60s or 70s and the doctor is in his 30s.

826
00:50:10.500 --> 00:50:13.679
Yes, and he's a grandson now.

827
00:50:13.739 --> 00:50:14.699
Paul Mcann wishes.

828
00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:16.320
She's still she's still called...

829
00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:17.699
Yeah, she still calls him grandpa.

830
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:19.380
I won't go too much into that because...

831
00:50:19.380 --> 00:50:20.519
But we'll put it up.

832
00:50:21.420 --> 00:50:23.340
There's almost certainly a Santarian in it at some point.

833
00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:24.179
At some point.

834
00:50:24.300 --> 00:50:25.380
There is actually a monster.

835
00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:26.280
Oh, okay, yes.

836
00:50:26.340 --> 00:50:28.860
Anyway, back to...

837
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:32.039
So I think I actually really like this one.

838
00:50:32.099 --> 00:50:33.179
Do you know what I mean?

839
00:50:33.239 --> 00:50:38.039
I've probably expressed for 12 different contradictory opinions about it over the course of the podcast already.

840
00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:39.900
But I did sort of quite enjoy it.

841
00:50:39.960 --> 00:51:00.960
And it is partly because, you know, at this point it's all sort of something new and it is because the fake out, you know, like episode one sets up the, um, sense rights as sort of, uh, you know, terrible scary monsters, but then it turns out that they're the good guys.

842
00:51:01.019 --> 00:51:03.840
And so you've actually been. yeah they're really quite vulnerable.

843
00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:06.000
And all of that's quite good.

844
00:51:06.059 --> 00:51:14.460
And the fact that it, you know, has a planet and a sort of social structure and stuff and people wear lovely sashes so they can tell each other apart.

845
00:51:14.460 --> 00:51:17.039
Pretty denuded social structure, though.

846
00:51:17.099 --> 00:51:19.860
They don't even have names and it just seems to be one city.

847
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:21.119
Yeah, yeah. that's, I mean, that's.

848
00:51:21.300 --> 00:51:29.820
It's the 1st time I can think of, that a culture, an alien culture has been attempted to be described on television at the course of a serial.

849
00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:36.840
So, you know, they, they don't get everything right, but they get this idea that they've got their own hierarchy, their own value structure.

850
00:51:36.900 --> 00:51:37.920
Yeah.

851
00:51:37.980 --> 00:51:41.340
Okay, so they don't have names, but maybe they don't have names.

852
00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:47.159
I also quite like just that we get to spend a bit of time with them. you know what I mean?

853
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:49.019
Like it's a bit more leisurely.

854
00:51:49.019 --> 00:51:50.280
I do like the drawn out note.

855
00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:53.760
And the real plot really doesn't kick out until episode six.

856
00:51:53.820 --> 00:51:57.119
Like, I don't think those soldier guys, even a few.

857
00:51:57.239 --> 00:51:58.260
I found that very strange.

858
00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:01.320
That, you know, you get this reference of, 0 no, these people don't out.

859
00:52:01.380 --> 00:52:02.579
These people died out these...

860
00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:05.460
And so you think, okay, they poison the water supply and then they die.

861
00:52:05.579 --> 00:52:06.599
And now they're here.

862
00:52:06.659 --> 00:52:07.199
No, they're here.

863
00:52:07.260 --> 00:52:07.800
They're in a cave.

864
00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:08.579
But that's okay.

865
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:11.940
We get some villains and stuff and some drama at the end.

866
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:21.179
And some lovely post-colonial nods to, you know, Britain is losing their empire and this is how we now view our role in that, hiding, you know.

867
00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:31.559
Not only that, but of course, Peter on Newman based those characters who had been in the caves for so long, they've gone mad on prisoners of war because he was a prisoner of war.

868
00:52:31.619 --> 00:52:37.800
And it was such a pity because that little sort of 5 minute scene that those characters have.

869
00:52:37.860 --> 00:52:39.239
I thought that's really interesting.

870
00:52:39.300 --> 00:52:43.500
I would have liked to see more of these characters in the episodes like just in the background.

871
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:47.099
I would have liked to see them poisoning the water supply and discussing what they were doing.

872
00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:48.780
Then you wouldn't get the reveal.

873
00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:54.239
Yeah, no, I think the reveal's fun, and I think the fact that they wind it all up in an episode is actually sort of pretty good.

874
00:52:54.300 --> 00:52:55.320
It's very atypical.

875
00:52:55.380 --> 00:52:56.340
I'll get it that.

876
00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:58.199
But there's nothing to be atypical of.

877
00:52:58.260 --> 00:52:58.440
Yeah.

878
00:52:58.500 --> 00:52:59.159
Do you know what I mean?

879
00:52:59.219 --> 00:53:00.179
1st one.

880
00:53:00.179 --> 00:53:00.480
Exactly.

881
00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:01.800
The science fiction story.

882
00:53:01.860 --> 00:53:07.260
And it's the 1st one that sets up all the stuff. the 1st time we're inside a spaceship other than the TARDIS.

883
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:20.820
It's the 1st one that has that purely technical thing of walking from the tide set into the spaceship, which I don't remember happening again to, okay, maybe colony in space, but I don't remember happening again till that moment with Liz Sladin and Tom in Pyramid of Mars.

884
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:22.019
And I can tell you as a little boy.

885
00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:25.260
That blew my head sideways. was so exciting.

886
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:29.880
I think the landing on a spaceship, I remember thinking that was really terrific.

887
00:53:29.940 --> 00:53:30.539
We can do that.

888
00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:31.619
We can land out beautiful.

889
00:53:31.679 --> 00:53:32.639
Exactly.

890
00:53:32.699 --> 00:53:34.920
And it was just as exciting for the audience at the time.

891
00:53:34.980 --> 00:53:36.179
We didn't know the Titus could do that.

892
00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:36.960
Yeah, yeah.

893
00:53:37.019 --> 00:53:38.639
Yeah, no, that is pretty good.

894
00:53:38.699 --> 00:53:39.900
Love it, love it, love it.

895
00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:41.699
I score?

896
00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:46.559
I give it for the things that it does, if not the way it does it, 9 out of 10.

897
00:53:46.739 --> 00:53:48.000
Okay.

898
00:53:48.059 --> 00:53:49.320
Interesting.

899
00:53:49.380 --> 00:53:54.960
Because you see, I find that, like you say, Richard, it's got some very interesting ideas.

900
00:53:55.019 --> 00:54:03.960
It doesn't necessarily execute them that well, but where in the Daleks you've got, what is a science fiction trope?

901
00:54:04.019 --> 00:54:20.760
introduced in things like the time machine with the Morlocks and the Eloi as the Daleks and the Thals, and where in keys of marinace, you had sort of stock standard 1940s serial locations.

902
00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:24.480
Here, you do have traditional science fiction ideas.

903
00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:28.380
You got the Earth spaceship, you've got the psychic aliens, but it does turn it on its head.

904
00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:34.139
And for that, it really does have to be commended, and it's such a shame that Peter R.

905
00:54:34.139 --> 00:54:37.679
Newman didn't get to write either more doctor or more film in general.

906
00:54:37.739 --> 00:54:38.519
I think he did.

907
00:54:38.579 --> 00:54:44.099
I think he did a couple of hammer films, but then didn't write for one reason or another.

908
00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:47.760
And he's he's got a very good grip on character.

909
00:54:47.820 --> 00:54:51.179
He's got a very good grip on turning cliches on their head.

910
00:54:51.239 --> 00:54:59.340
Not necessarily a great grip on narrative, but with those two, And given more time, he could have done some really interesting stuff.

911
00:54:59.400 --> 00:55:05.340
I think it's a real shame that we don't have more of him either in Doctor Who or in anything else.

912
00:55:05.460 --> 00:55:12.900
In fact, it is, you know, like Richard expressed scepticism that keys of marinas were science fiction at all.

913
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:15.360
And there's a sense in which that's right.

914
00:55:15.420 --> 00:55:20.400
Whereas this is sort of undeniably science fiction in that sort of playing with ideas thing.

915
00:55:20.460 --> 00:55:27.420
You know, it's not just people being menaced by monsters, uh, which is what the show essentially becomes.

916
00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:32.579
Um, Spoiler alert, some of us look for.

917
00:55:32.579 --> 00:55:37.260
But it is a proper science fiction thing with an A. It really is.

918
00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:49.139
Manchurian candidate is a film that came out in 1963 by the extraordinary, violent, and outwardly queer John Frankenheimer.

919
00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:54.960
He's actually the, he was the Douglas Campfield in a frock of mainline cinema.

920
00:55:55.019 --> 00:56:03.000
He had all of the army intention and the uh, ebullience and the bullishness of Dougie Canfield, but really outwardly openly queer.

921
00:56:03.059 --> 00:56:06.780
It was kind of a rare thing in those days, but really strongly so.

922
00:56:06.840 --> 00:56:30.599
Um, Yeah, he's, he's filamentarian candidate with Lawrence Harvey, Angela Lansbury, Frank Sinatra, interestingly enough, was a film about mind control, and that had been revealed that the Chinese were doing with spies in their own concentration camps, the spies that they had captured, they were brainwashing and sending them back to the West.

923
00:56:30.659 --> 00:56:39.300
Film didn't actually get full release at the time, although it was shown in Britain. shown for a short time, not full release in the US because it was so political.

924
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:47.940
Um, it's, It's nicely suggested in this, and you're kind of wondering where all of this stuff with the telepathy is coming from.

925
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:49.559
I believe that's on the strong parts of it.

926
00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:55.079
It also has one of the greatest billy fluffs that's generally ignored of this season.

927
00:56:55.079 --> 00:57:01.320
When he calls out, stabilises Matron, the same time rather than Maitland.

928
00:57:01.380 --> 00:57:07.739
I'm firmly convinced that they were, which I think is the 28th season equivalent of quickness screens.

929
00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:11.099
We have a lovely nod to carry on in that one moment.

930
00:57:12.119 --> 00:57:13.619
All right.

931
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:15.539
Just before noise.

932
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:20.159
Well, just before we move on, I just want to praise Stephen Dartnell's performances, John.

933
00:57:20.219 --> 00:57:21.239
Yeah, it's great.

934
00:57:21.300 --> 00:57:24.719
He's like a primordial David Tennant, really, isn't he?

935
00:57:24.780 --> 00:57:25.920
Yeah, well, and...

936
00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:26.820
In a billywig, yeah.

937
00:57:26.940 --> 00:57:33.659
It's kind of the thing of, you know, his madman, you can't really appreciate his madman performance until the later episodes when he's restored.

938
00:57:33.659 --> 00:57:39.119
And he is so sort of straight down the line, really a matinee idol kind of voice.

939
00:57:39.960 --> 00:57:45.420
And then you look back and when he's sort of clutching at Susan's leg and saying, no, I won't hurt them.

940
00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:46.079
They're my friends.

941
00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:48.300
You go, actually, that's really good.

942
00:57:48.420 --> 00:57:49.800
Yeah, really.

943
00:57:49.860 --> 00:57:51.239
And he was Yante.

944
00:57:51.300 --> 00:57:53.159
He was the art tech leader of the alien board.

945
00:57:53.219 --> 00:57:54.480
He's got a range.

946
00:57:54.539 --> 00:57:55.440
Yes.

947
00:57:55.500 --> 00:57:58.559
From good to leader of the alien board?

948
00:57:58.619 --> 00:57:58.800
Yep.

949
00:57:59.219 --> 00:58:03.000
The only observation I have from Rod on this story.

950
00:58:03.059 --> 00:58:05.219
Here we go. is kind of erotic.

951
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:05.940
No, no.

952
00:58:05.940 --> 00:58:07.440
There was a wheelie in episode one.

953
00:58:07.500 --> 00:58:09.420
No, no, but he does wonder...

954
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:12.239
Sorry.

955
00:58:12.900 --> 00:58:19.619
He does wonder that why after the doctor says, you know, they're very sensitive to loud noise.

956
00:58:19.679 --> 00:58:22.440
It's like, no, no, stay back, stay back, stay back.

957
00:58:22.500 --> 00:58:24.000
Why doesn't anyone just scream?

958
00:58:24.780 --> 00:58:26.820
Oh, yeah, interesting.

959
00:58:27.300 --> 00:58:29.460
Oh, since rights are about to attack me.

960
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:30.420
I'll just scream.

961
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:33.480
I'll shout, I'll shout obscenities out there.

962
00:58:33.539 --> 00:58:34.199
But they didn't know that.

963
00:58:34.260 --> 00:58:36.239
Well, no, Billy says that they do.

964
00:58:36.300 --> 00:58:39.599
Yeah, but not when they were 1st anyway. not when they 1st came.

965
00:58:39.659 --> 00:58:42.059
But that's that's his witty observation.

966
00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:43.920
Okay, so, ah, right.

967
00:58:43.980 --> 00:58:44.400
There we are.

968
00:58:47.460 --> 00:58:49.079
Gosh, we're at the end of the season.

969
00:58:49.139 --> 00:58:50.280
All right.

970
00:58:50.340 --> 00:58:52.920
And it seems not a moment too soon.

971
00:58:52.980 --> 00:59:00.539
So we're now moving into the reign of terror. which for trivia fans out there.

972
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:09.000
Like Marco Polo, has missing episodes, but whereas Marco Polo has all its episodes missing, Reign of Terror only has episodes 4 and 5 missing.

973
00:59:09.059 --> 00:59:10.440
Yes, it is, yes.

974
00:59:10.500 --> 00:59:11.760
And they're animated.

975
00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:18.659
Yes, they are animated by an Australian animation studio called, I believe they're called Theta Sigma.

976
00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:20.099
The reign.

977
00:59:20.099 --> 00:59:21.239
The reign of terror.

978
00:59:21.300 --> 00:59:23.579
How do we all feel about this?

979
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:25.139
Well, it's just terrible, is it?

980
00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:27.059
There's no monsters.

981
00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:28.199
There's not the same.

982
00:59:28.260 --> 00:59:29.639
Do you know what I mean?

983
00:59:29.699 --> 00:59:35.340
If there had been a varden kind of yerking in there in that cell.

984
00:59:35.400 --> 00:59:39.539
And then, you know, like it's like le conciergerie.

985
00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:40.860
And then there's another room.

986
00:59:40.920 --> 00:59:47.639
Like the entire last 4 episodes are just in these 2 rooms, it's really just sort of terribly tiresome.

987
00:59:47.699 --> 01:00:01.199
The 1st episode sort of quite entertaining, although I don't know why suddenly, you know, after all, again, I think this is the sound of a thing, but we had all that hard one characterisation in earlier on in the season and now he's just going to turf them off his ship.

988
01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:06.539
Because Ian made an offhand remark about, oh, do you know where we're going?

989
01:00:06.599 --> 01:00:10.260
Well, I don't know where we're going, but I'm not going to tell you I don't know where we're going.

990
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:11.880
In fact, wherever we're going, you're going there.

991
01:00:11.940 --> 01:00:13.199
And that's exactly it.

992
01:00:13.260 --> 01:00:14.159
Billy says, that's it.

993
01:00:14.219 --> 01:00:18.360
You're off the ship. makes no sense. other than for the need to have a cliffhanger.

994
01:00:18.420 --> 01:00:19.380
Yeah, it is.

995
01:00:19.440 --> 01:00:26.340
It's the need to have a cliffhanger. you know, and it creates, and they sort of throw it away pretty early on in episode one.

996
01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:28.199
And ever since quite, episode one's quite...

997
01:00:28.260 --> 01:00:28.980
Not too quickly, yeah.

998
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:29.940
I like episode.

999
01:00:30.059 --> 01:00:34.079
Especially the cliffhanger, when they pan from the fire to the Black Knight sky.

1000
01:00:34.139 --> 01:00:37.139
And you just go, my god, the doctor's going to burn to death.

1001
01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:40.739
And then it's like, no, wait, a boy half his science has dragged him out of the fire.

1002
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:41.219
It's okay.

1003
01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:43.320
But that's a quite expensive looking thing.

1004
01:00:43.380 --> 01:00:46.440
Like there's a model and there's some stock footage and stuff. looks really good.

1005
01:00:46.500 --> 01:00:55.800
And then and then we get the famous, you know, 1st uh, actual location footage, uh, which we've never had before, which is...

1006
01:00:55.860 --> 01:00:57.300
It's Ryan Proud.

1007
01:00:57.360 --> 01:00:58.679
It's quote unquote, Billy.

1008
01:00:58.739 --> 01:01:02.280
It's a robot replica.

1009
01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:03.840
It's by the Dalek.

1010
01:01:03.900 --> 01:01:04.739
Spoiler alert.

1011
01:01:05.159 --> 01:01:11.639
And and you know, like maybe that scene with the guy who's digging the road is sort of reasonably entertaining.

1012
01:01:11.699 --> 01:01:13.980
Although, like, why is he not in the plot for so long?

1013
01:01:14.039 --> 01:01:15.059
I don't really understand it.

1014
01:01:15.119 --> 01:01:20.760
And then just the rest of it is them just all going in and out of prison, which is all just sort of kind of around.

1015
01:01:21.239 --> 01:01:34.139
And I think, again, the only thing that I think is fun is, Because, you know, again, like the Aztecs, we've kind of got a comic book version of history.

1016
01:01:34.199 --> 01:01:39.599
And so, you know, naturally the aristocrats are good guys because the revolutionaries are killing people.

1017
01:01:39.659 --> 01:01:41.400
Do you know what I mean?

1018
01:01:41.460 --> 01:01:51.900
Like there's this sort of reactionary, crummy politics to it, which Barbara then stands up and addresses and she tells them all off. and says, you know, that's not what it's like. these people.

1019
01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:55.079
I mean, you know, and the actual narrative doesn't do any of that.

1020
01:01:55.139 --> 01:02:03.599
The narrative is sort of fairly reactionary, but at least within within the narrative, Barbara stands up and tells it like it is and she's fantastic.

1021
01:02:03.659 --> 01:02:05.159
You know, that's a great moment.

1022
01:02:05.219 --> 01:02:07.619
But the rest of it's all really exhausting.

1023
01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:11.159
And Carol Anne continues to degenerate horribly.

1024
01:02:11.219 --> 01:02:14.159
She's Paul, terribly yeah, treated a Paul.

1025
01:02:14.219 --> 01:02:22.199
I mean, and this is why this, I think, story is interesting, but only to observe not to actually be involved with as a viewer. to know the backstory.

1026
01:02:22.260 --> 01:02:24.119
It's the historical we had to have.

1027
01:02:24.179 --> 01:02:26.280
It's the most obvious thing to do.

1028
01:02:26.340 --> 01:02:36.719
We forget that I kind of benefitted from this, but doing history at school, French Revolution is still something that was taught and that school children knew a lot about.

1029
01:02:36.780 --> 01:02:39.480
That was kind of like there was.

1030
01:02:39.539 --> 01:02:46.800
There was that book on the card, but it was one of the, it was one of the last, kind of the last generation where we were taught about this in schools, both here and in Britain.

1031
01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:56.699
It's also the one where the stuff going on behind the scenes was a hell of a lot more exciting and interesting and dangerous and the stuff that was happening on screen.

1032
01:02:56.760 --> 01:03:15.239
We had, we had a director, um, Henrik Hirsch, Heinrich Hirsch, who was kind of a great leap forward and verity was being, we forget how experimental she was, perhaps we forget how experimental she was being in this season. and taking a director who'd only done one other thing she'd seen, a political historical piece.

1033
01:03:15.300 --> 01:03:20.280
He'd escaped from Native Hungary in 56 in the Revolution.

1034
01:03:20.340 --> 01:03:25.679
He was greatly troubled by this and had a was already known to have a nervous temperament.

1035
01:03:25.739 --> 01:03:31.920
The same director who passed out in episode, the filming of episode 3 or 4 and Pinfield took over.

1036
01:03:33.119 --> 01:03:33.480
After that.

1037
01:03:33.539 --> 01:03:44.219
He was so antagonistic that Carol Anne Ford was apparently yelling to, well, not yelling, but just saying to the to the powers that be that I am so out of here.

1038
01:03:44.280 --> 01:03:52.619
And it was because of this story and because of this director, there's that famous thing that she's always been put down for the way she was behaving in the cells.

1039
01:03:52.679 --> 01:03:57.539
Oh, no, the rats and being, you know, pretty much received as being entirely pathetic in this.

1040
01:03:57.599 --> 01:04:00.059
Yeah, it's like, I'm going to get my head dropped off.

1041
01:04:00.119 --> 01:04:01.619
Oh, no, I can't face any rats, yeah.

1042
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:02.880
Well, it's the best point.

1043
01:04:02.940 --> 01:04:05.639
Well, she was also and they weren't given direction.

1044
01:04:05.699 --> 01:04:09.840
He was apparently not the kind of director that he was just finding his feet.

1045
01:04:09.900 --> 01:04:12.780
He was finding it really technically difficult to understand how the cameras work.

1046
01:04:12.840 --> 01:04:17.760
He said, and you got this note that why must you be so maudlin?

1047
01:04:17.820 --> 01:04:21.000
Yeah, he was Hungarian and he'd say, he'd seen a revolution.

1048
01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:22.019
It escaped in 56.

1049
01:04:22.199 --> 01:04:23.460
You think he would have been sympathetic?

1050
01:04:23.760 --> 01:04:26.940
She's standing there and she's sending notes back.

1051
01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:30.480
I'm in a sewer like cell.

1052
01:04:30.539 --> 01:04:31.980
I've got surrounded.

1053
01:04:32.039 --> 01:04:32.880
I'm really ill.

1054
01:04:32.940 --> 01:04:34.079
I'm surrounded by rats.

1055
01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:35.760
And I'm going to be decapitated.

1056
01:04:35.880 --> 01:04:36.900
Exactly.

1057
01:04:36.960 --> 01:04:39.420
I'm feeling a little maudlin right now.

1058
01:04:41.099 --> 01:04:46.019
It's as if Judith Lucy was personally narrative way back then.

1059
01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:48.719
Oh my god, can you imagine Judith Lucy and Susan?

1060
01:04:48.780 --> 01:04:51.599
think we'd have an entirely different show.

1061
01:04:51.659 --> 01:04:54.360
Well, Judith losing a tough car is dead.

1062
01:04:54.420 --> 01:04:55.920
Oh, yeah.

1063
01:04:55.980 --> 01:04:57.900
Well, in some ways, she...

1064
01:04:57.960 --> 01:04:58.920
You stupid man.

1065
01:04:59.820 --> 01:05:05.400
You didn't realise you would have died if I hadn't got the food machine working for you.

1066
01:05:08.159 --> 01:05:12.659
I do do a rather reasonable due to blue seat, which is unfortunate because I'm a man.

1067
01:05:15.300 --> 01:05:17.400
I think we should keep that in.

1068
01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:21.239
They were back in Lime Grove. horrendous.

1069
01:05:21.300 --> 01:05:23.519
Terrible, terrible timing.

1070
01:05:23.579 --> 01:05:30.059
No, but now they've, did I make a lime grove mistake earlier on in the podcast and you were both too polite to mention it.

1071
01:05:30.119 --> 01:05:31.559
No, I think you were still correct.

1072
01:05:31.619 --> 01:05:32.820
No, you're correct.

1073
01:05:32.880 --> 01:05:41.340
They had gone out, but they were back on back in Studio D. And this was awful for everybody, terribly hot, this kept going off, the sets kept getting wet.

1074
01:05:41.400 --> 01:05:43.679
They had to wait for it to wait, the sprinkles to go.

1075
01:05:43.739 --> 01:05:51.059
So a lot, she said, you know, she said the tension that you see is entirely naturalistic, this is exactly what we were going through.

1076
01:05:51.119 --> 01:05:55.320
But he would produce notes is why she saw Maudlin.

1077
01:05:55.380 --> 01:05:56.219
Why has she been so difficult?

1078
01:05:56.280 --> 01:05:57.480
Bloody hell.

1079
01:05:57.539 --> 01:06:07.559
I been nibbled by rats and I'm ill and the way it's written and I'm trying to like my little socks off because I've got nothing else to do and I'm getting copying criticism from everyone, including the fan base today.

1080
01:06:07.619 --> 01:06:09.900
And you see this being really crap and week in this.

1081
01:06:09.960 --> 01:06:10.920
I think she's fine.

1082
01:06:10.980 --> 01:06:13.500
I think she's doing a great job and she's got nothing else to do.

1083
01:06:13.559 --> 01:06:19.139
I mean, her performance, like whatever about her performance, it is really a problem with the way the character is written.

1084
01:06:19.199 --> 01:06:20.699
It's really holy...

1085
01:06:20.820 --> 01:06:21.840
Carol's a good actress.

1086
01:06:21.900 --> 01:06:23.099
Yes.

1087
01:06:23.159 --> 01:06:25.260
Especially if in this, yes.

1088
01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:27.900
Well, especially the censor rights.

1089
01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:28.860
She's really good in.

1090
01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:30.239
Um, an earthly child.

1091
01:06:30.300 --> 01:06:30.840
She's really good.

1092
01:06:30.900 --> 01:06:32.039
She's very good in the Daleks.

1093
01:06:32.099 --> 01:06:33.179
Outside of Doctor Who.

1094
01:06:33.239 --> 01:06:33.960
She is great in the St.

1095
01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:36.480
Trinian's film she's in, and also Day of the Triffords.

1096
01:06:36.539 --> 01:06:37.199
Yeah.

1097
01:06:37.199 --> 01:06:39.659
Do you know I've never seen that day of the truth?

1098
01:06:39.719 --> 01:06:40.260
good, yeah.

1099
01:06:40.320 --> 01:06:40.679
It's good.

1100
01:06:40.739 --> 01:06:45.239
It's, I would say it's not as good as the 80s TV version, which covers more of the story.

1101
01:06:45.300 --> 01:06:50.219
But for a Hollywood adaptation where they have to shorten the story to 90 minutes.

1102
01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:57.900
It, you know, where a lot of those things they will cut out so much of the intent of the book, it still maintains the spirit.

1103
01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:06.360
And Carol, she is a supporting character in it, but she is a very memorable character in it.

1104
01:07:06.420 --> 01:07:09.960
No, well, I've never seen her in anything else, so it's hard to know.

1105
01:07:10.019 --> 01:07:11.699
For me, it's has no...

1106
01:07:11.820 --> 01:07:19.739
Yeah, it sounds like in the pilot, she could have played a more detached and more self-possessed alien character who was who enjoyed the adventures.

1107
01:07:19.800 --> 01:07:22.800
But here she's just sort of a blubbery, panicky fool.

1108
01:07:22.860 --> 01:07:23.699
Do you know what I mean?

1109
01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:26.340
And like worse than in any of those stories so far?

1110
01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:32.219
And, you know, I'm sure that's not Caroline's choice, but gosh, it's really sort of miserable to watch.

1111
01:07:32.340 --> 01:07:38.940
Kind of when you compare with our self-possessed Jackie is in the same circumstances.

1112
01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:39.780
You know?

1113
01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:42.179
I mean, it's not real peril. you know what I mean?

1114
01:07:42.239 --> 01:07:44.280
It's not she's not with Peter R.

1115
01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:46.320
Newman in a prisoner of war camp.

1116
01:07:46.380 --> 01:07:49.679
She's just in Lime Grove pretending to be in a prison cell.

1117
01:07:49.739 --> 01:07:52.619
You know, we don't need quite that level of hysteria.

1118
01:07:52.679 --> 01:08:04.019
And I think just the kind of, um, the, the way that Barbara pitches it, where it's a terrible thing, but she's sort of resigned to it, and we're not being forced to sit through a lot of histrionics.

1119
01:08:04.079 --> 01:08:04.920
Do you know what I mean?

1120
01:08:04.980 --> 01:08:07.019
Yeah, they're sort of, they're on 2 levels.

1121
01:08:07.079 --> 01:08:17.460
And if if Carol Anne was on Barbara's level of, okay, I'm really scared, but I'm going to work through it, or if Jackie was on Carol Anne's level of, oh my god, I'm going to panic.

1122
01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:19.619
It wouldn't seem so jarring.

1123
01:08:19.680 --> 01:08:21.239
Not fun to watch that.

1124
01:08:21.300 --> 01:08:24.539
I think the reason that scene is JoJo is when we can't forget this now.

1125
01:08:24.600 --> 01:08:30.119
It's written by Dennis Spooner and Dennis Spooner is 1st and foremost, a comedic writer.

1126
01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:32.819
This is actually meant to be seen as a comedy.

1127
01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:35.159
Yeah, and I think again, the movie?

1128
01:08:35.220 --> 01:08:36.060
The direction is...

1129
01:08:36.180 --> 01:08:37.500
The direction doesn't quite pick up.

1130
01:08:37.560 --> 01:08:38.159
No, at all.

1131
01:08:38.220 --> 01:08:38.939
Except for...

1132
01:08:38.939 --> 01:08:40.560
You've got a non-English...

1133
01:08:40.619 --> 01:08:43.979
The director had very little English, apparently, when he was making this suit.

1134
01:08:44.039 --> 01:08:46.319
He's not quite there yet either.

1135
01:08:46.380 --> 01:08:48.060
Like his next story.

1136
01:08:48.119 --> 01:08:49.319
Spooner.

1137
01:08:49.380 --> 01:08:51.000
Oh, yeah, yeah, it's tremendous.

1138
01:08:51.060 --> 01:08:53.520
And this is not as good as that.

1139
01:08:53.579 --> 01:08:56.760
You know, he's still finding his feet as well. with Doctor Who.

1140
01:08:56.880 --> 01:09:01.140
And it's amazing when you consider that in the time frame we're thinking of.

1141
01:09:01.199 --> 01:09:05.159
It's either this or the Romans, which got him the job as script editor.

1142
01:09:05.220 --> 01:09:08.579
And I think it's this because he scripted it to dumb the rescue.

1143
01:09:09.300 --> 01:09:11.220
Which is true.

1144
01:09:11.220 --> 01:09:12.420
Which meant that he was going to get the job.

1145
01:09:12.479 --> 01:09:14.640
Yeah, Whittaker wrote the rescue.

1146
01:09:14.699 --> 01:09:15.659
Whittaker Rose script there.

1147
01:09:15.720 --> 01:09:15.960
Yeah.

1148
01:09:16.560 --> 01:09:19.380
I could think of German expressionism at all.

1149
01:09:19.439 --> 01:09:23.640
Well, I was actually going to segue if that's okay to unintentional comedy.

1150
01:09:23.699 --> 01:09:27.539
If this is rent to be read as a comedy, and I thought, you know, we know that it is.

1151
01:09:27.600 --> 01:09:38.640
There are little moments like, you know, um, Barbara playing it with a mormoset accent when they're playing 2 servants and at the end of the thing, is this kind of, as it is, I suppose, hilarious.

1152
01:09:38.699 --> 01:09:40.199
But it's the supporting cast.

1153
01:09:40.260 --> 01:09:45.779
Most, I guess most significantly we've got James Canncross.

1154
01:09:45.840 --> 01:10:05.760
As Le Maitre and later reveal as James Sterling, to give us the campus performance, I believe, we've ever had, even Billy's fluffy feathered hat, cannot meet James Cancross's extraordinary performance in this as the Sydney Carton character, the tale of 2 cities.

1155
01:10:05.819 --> 01:10:07.439
He's playing Dirk Bogart.

1156
01:10:07.500 --> 01:10:11.819
That film had just come out a few years before the British tailor. tremendously popular.

1157
01:10:11.880 --> 01:10:30.180
And if we're talking about unintentional reveals, the very 1st brine island stretch jersey packed lunch reveal was Dirk Bogart's famously well-packed, apparently, cinematically moments of wearing them, wearing the pantaloons in that film anyway, he was kind of well known for it.

1158
01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:36.000
Um, But I just can't get over James Kangross's performance.

1159
01:10:36.060 --> 01:10:40.380
He actually gives us Duckface and invented it in 9064.

1160
01:10:40.560 --> 01:10:43.260
We have the 1st selfie.

1161
01:10:43.319 --> 01:10:44.640
We didn't...

1162
01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:45.960
Doctor Who.

1163
01:10:46.020 --> 01:10:47.159
Star Trek?

1164
01:10:47.159 --> 01:10:48.180
Taken by John Cure.

1165
01:10:48.239 --> 01:10:49.020
Exactly.

1166
01:10:49.079 --> 01:10:56.399
James, you know, Star Trek may have invented the flip phone, but Doctor Who created the Duckface Selfie.

1167
01:10:56.460 --> 01:10:57.420
Watch again.

1168
01:10:57.479 --> 01:11:05.100
He's doing it the entire way through, the way he looks up William Russell, and there is no other way of saying that through all of these episodes.

1169
01:11:05.159 --> 01:11:07.319
It's Carry on Frenchy.

1170
01:11:07.560 --> 01:11:18.659
It sets up beautifully that Caroline Ford's next big cinematic performance that's the saucy French mistress in the Great Centrinian's train robbery of 1966.

1171
01:11:18.840 --> 01:11:20.640
I have never seen this.

1172
01:11:20.699 --> 01:11:26.880
It is well worth watching directly after you watch this. picking up what you were saying about William Russell.

1173
01:11:26.939 --> 01:11:33.180
And, well, we haven't discussed William Russell much because we've been talking about the strengths of Barbara and the deficiencies of Susan.

1174
01:11:33.239 --> 01:11:37.500
William Russell is just steady and he's the rock throughout the whole season.

1175
01:11:37.560 --> 01:11:42.659
And, you know, it's easy to see why people say the show is about Ian for much of the 1st season.

1176
01:11:44.039 --> 01:11:45.539
No, about Barbara.

1177
01:11:45.600 --> 01:11:47.460
Barbara, I would have thought for the 1st season.

1178
01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:52.500
But I think that's a big reason that Reign of Terror falls, but because Ian is...

1179
01:11:52.500 --> 01:11:53.760
So obviously not in the room.

1180
01:11:53.819 --> 01:11:55.260
Yeah, yeah, holiday.

1181
01:11:55.319 --> 01:11:57.420
He's on holiday for episodes 2 or three.

1182
01:11:57.479 --> 01:12:00.960
And literally the plot grinds to a halt.

1183
01:12:01.020 --> 01:12:02.460
The doctor gets some new clothes.

1184
01:12:02.579 --> 01:12:06.359
He gets in a in, sorry, the doctor gets some new clothes.

1185
01:12:06.420 --> 01:12:08.159
He gets Barbara and Susan out of jail.

1186
01:12:08.819 --> 01:12:10.859
And then they go back in.

1187
01:12:11.159 --> 01:12:13.859
Yes, I know.

1188
01:12:13.859 --> 01:12:18.960
And then he gets called to a meeting with Robespierre and then Ian is released in time to come back.

1189
01:12:19.020 --> 01:12:23.100
Sorry, Ian is kidnapped in time to come back for his holiday, but we don't see him until the following week.

1190
01:12:23.159 --> 01:12:25.140
And that's all that happens in 2 episodes.

1191
01:12:25.199 --> 01:12:28.859
But the 2 episodes we've lost are the ones where the plot actually gets going again.

1192
01:12:28.920 --> 01:12:30.359
So true.

1193
01:12:30.359 --> 01:12:33.300
Do you remember, do you remember what happened to Rose here?

1194
01:12:33.359 --> 01:12:35.579
like something really horrible.

1195
01:12:35.640 --> 01:12:36.720
Yeah, what happened in real life?

1196
01:12:36.779 --> 01:12:39.420
She got in the jaw, shot in the jaw. right to me.

1197
01:12:39.479 --> 01:12:41.640
And so he actually wants to see it.

1198
01:12:41.699 --> 01:12:45.659
We hear the shot and we see it's again that moment that...

1199
01:12:45.659 --> 01:12:48.720
So everyone at home knows he's been all the kiddies at home know he's been shot.

1200
01:12:48.720 --> 01:12:49.680
We knew the story.

1201
01:12:49.739 --> 01:12:50.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1202
01:12:50.340 --> 01:12:51.840
It's kind of like...

1203
01:12:51.899 --> 01:12:52.739
It's awful.

1204
01:12:52.800 --> 01:12:59.399
It's kind of like perhaps not my nieces and nephews, but people my age know that Harold Holt drowned.

1205
01:12:59.460 --> 01:13:03.899
That's the kind of thing it was at the time, I think, that people knew that...

1206
01:13:03.899 --> 01:13:07.920
Because history was not an elective in at that time.

1207
01:13:07.979 --> 01:13:09.239
You were taught this stuff.

1208
01:13:09.300 --> 01:13:14.520
Yeah, so I didn't I actually didn't know the shot in the jaw, I think, because I'm lamentably ignorant about everything.

1209
01:13:14.579 --> 01:13:16.859
I didn't know until random terror.

1210
01:13:16.979 --> 01:13:17.579
Yeah, yeah.

1211
01:13:17.640 --> 01:13:18.479
Dr. Boutour.

1212
01:13:18.479 --> 01:13:19.739
That's horrible.

1213
01:13:19.800 --> 01:13:21.600
That is kind of horrible because he wanders through the thing.

1214
01:13:21.659 --> 01:13:24.239
The scene, you know, after that's happened.

1215
01:13:24.300 --> 01:13:25.739
Do you know the reason he was shot in the jaw?

1216
01:13:25.800 --> 01:13:27.539
Because it wouldn't shut up.

1217
01:13:27.600 --> 01:13:29.699
Much like outback.

1218
01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:31.500
He wouldn't need his mushroom.

1219
01:13:31.560 --> 01:13:36.840
It's kind of that, but no, it's it's that even he was respected even by the general public.

1220
01:13:36.899 --> 01:13:51.600
But the general public realised, like the ones who knew the ones who knew what he was really like, and I did air quotes around that, realised that if he gets the chance to talk to people, he will he will convert them to his way of thinking, we will see him talking.

1221
01:13:51.659 --> 01:13:52.380
Yeah, yeah.

1222
01:13:52.439 --> 01:13:55.020
That's the reason he specifically shot in the drawer.

1223
01:13:55.079 --> 01:13:57.420
We don't want to kill him because we need to put him on trial.

1224
01:13:57.479 --> 01:13:58.979
Tony Abbott.

1225
01:13:59.100 --> 01:14:01.020
He shoots himself in the drawer.

1226
01:14:02.279 --> 01:14:04.079
Ah, dear.

1227
01:14:04.079 --> 01:14:08.340
And then has to pay his doctor $7, right?

1228
01:14:08.760 --> 01:14:11.640
I think we've done tremendously well.

1229
01:14:11.699 --> 01:14:15.000
I hope you've been opening a bottle with us. how you would have survived this without it.

1230
01:14:15.060 --> 01:14:15.720
No, no.

1231
01:14:15.720 --> 01:14:16.739
So they're doing it in 2 bits.

1232
01:14:16.800 --> 01:14:18.600
Oh, hurray, okay, one.

1233
01:14:18.600 --> 01:14:23.399
Yeah, we've actually recorded this in one session with just minor lubrics.

1234
01:14:23.460 --> 01:14:25.979
So, um, I think...

1235
01:14:25.979 --> 01:14:27.000
We believe...

1236
01:14:27.060 --> 01:14:31.619
So 1st of all, we've got to discuss the Jenny Lairdward for most cuzzling creative choice.

1237
01:14:31.680 --> 01:14:33.720
So do we have any nominees?

1238
01:14:33.779 --> 01:14:39.899
Well, again, I have to nominate James Cancross for giving me just so much duck face for so little in return.

1239
01:14:39.960 --> 01:14:43.140
I really, really love what he managed to do for me.

1240
01:14:43.199 --> 01:14:47.520
It rescues Reign of Terror from being something I would have done a lot of ironing instead of.

1241
01:14:48.359 --> 01:14:50.520
Oh, gosh.

1242
01:14:50.520 --> 01:14:51.659
What do you think?

1243
01:14:51.720 --> 01:14:52.439
I don't know.

1244
01:14:52.500 --> 01:14:54.420
I'm being forced to come up with an opinion on the spot.

1245
01:14:54.479 --> 01:14:56.039
I did think, what do we think?

1246
01:14:56.100 --> 01:15:01.739
Maybe I would give uh, Terry Nation, the Journey Laird Award.

1247
01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:15.359
And it really is just, you know, I still don't buy the idea that it's a clever, unexpected fusion between hard science fiction and action adventure story.

1248
01:15:15.420 --> 01:15:17.819
I think it is just the daleks, you mean?

1249
01:15:17.880 --> 01:15:18.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1250
01:15:18.720 --> 01:15:22.439
I think I think he's just run out of things to do at the end of episode four.

1251
01:15:22.500 --> 01:15:25.199
And he goes, oh, crap, I've still got another 3 episodes.

1252
01:15:25.260 --> 01:15:26.100
Let's have a swamp.

1253
01:15:26.159 --> 01:15:27.600
He's even wound it up.

1254
01:15:27.659 --> 01:15:28.739
We found the fluid link.

1255
01:15:28.800 --> 01:15:29.460
We're ready to go.

1256
01:15:29.520 --> 01:15:31.260
Everything's resolved.

1257
01:15:31.319 --> 01:15:46.079
Off we go and it's just like the terrible sinking feeling that we have just 3 more episodes of creeping slowly through, you know, unimpressive looking corridors to go because he can't think of anything else to do for the next 7 episodes.

1258
01:15:46.140 --> 01:15:47.100
And that's really it.

1259
01:15:47.159 --> 01:15:52.739
He's out of things probably by that, you know, it'll just be recycling from here on in, I think.

1260
01:15:52.859 --> 01:15:55.140
I believe in Oprah speak, we need to own that.

1261
01:15:55.199 --> 01:15:56.699
Yeah, maybe right.

1262
01:15:56.760 --> 01:16:18.479
Well, I suppose my nominee for the Jenny Laird award for the most puzzling creative choice is Daphne Dare, who is the costume designer for much of this series, but specifically, because she does loads of good stuff, I'm just questioning one puzzling creative choice, which is why is Altos wearing a pair of Speedos in the Keys of Mariners?

1263
01:16:18.539 --> 01:16:22.619
Why does he have no shorts, no trousers, no kilt, no anything.

1264
01:16:22.680 --> 01:16:23.880
He's got a cape.

1265
01:16:23.939 --> 01:16:25.380
He's got a cape, that's true.

1266
01:16:25.500 --> 01:16:29.039
I suppose you could say it's inverting the whole thing off.

1267
01:16:29.100 --> 01:16:33.779
He's scantily clad and showing off our legs while Sabita has a collar to floor dress.

1268
01:16:33.840 --> 01:16:41.520
I suppose you could say that, but it's just rather odd, especially seeing as Altos seems to rather enjoy having his thighs rubbed.

1269
01:16:41.579 --> 01:16:43.260
Sorry, I'll do that as due to Lucy.

1270
01:16:43.319 --> 01:16:52.260
It is rather odd, especially when you consider that Altos rather enjoys having his thighs rubbed for warmth by Ian, but then again, who wouldn't.

1271
01:16:52.739 --> 01:16:57.420
I really like that you drop down to Tanner to... from your own reign.

1272
01:16:57.479 --> 01:17:06.960
According to my according to my audition, my failed audition, I should say, for the creative arts school at Wollongong University, I am a barattenna.

1273
01:17:07.020 --> 01:17:07.560
So there you go.

1274
01:17:09.239 --> 01:17:12.359
Which would make due to base baritime, I guess.

1275
01:17:12.420 --> 01:17:16.319
They actually made that up just to kick me out. to kick you in the ass.

1276
01:17:16.380 --> 01:17:20.279
And what about what about gorgeous things that we should then go and have a look at?

1277
01:17:20.340 --> 01:17:21.659
Pics of the week.

1278
01:17:21.720 --> 01:17:22.859
Pick up the week. week.

1279
01:17:22.920 --> 01:17:25.920
My peaks of the week are about time.

1280
01:17:26.039 --> 01:17:27.479
Yeah, hurrah.

1281
01:17:27.539 --> 01:17:31.800
It's a series we have a copyright here, which you can see at home through the microphone.

1282
01:17:31.800 --> 01:17:33.659
Spacetime visualiser.

1283
01:17:33.659 --> 01:17:39.000
Brendan's presenting it to the microphone, so you can all... presenting the book to my screen.

1284
01:17:39.060 --> 01:17:40.199
Yeah, sorry, the book.

1285
01:17:40.260 --> 01:17:42.359
It's Mr. Tat Wood and Mr. Lawrence Miles.

1286
01:17:42.420 --> 01:17:45.899
So it's the increasingly crazy...

1287
01:17:45.899 --> 01:17:53.640
Interestingly involved at Lawrence Miles, plus Tatwood. and Tatwood in who used to wash his hair with dishwashing liquid and wear a pith helmet.

1288
01:17:54.119 --> 01:17:56.819
There you go, when we used to know him.

1289
01:17:56.880 --> 01:17:57.899
I love your tab.

1290
01:17:58.020 --> 01:18:00.119
So it's a series of 7 books.

1291
01:18:00.239 --> 01:18:12.479
The 1st 6 are on the classic series and the 7th book, which has only recently released, covers series one or 2 of the new series.

1292
01:18:12.600 --> 01:18:16.619
And it really is just some of the most extraordinarily detailed writing.

1293
01:18:16.680 --> 01:18:22.140
There's a thing about sort of Doctor Who books of Doctor Who program guides where you sort of think, eh, I could do that in my sleep.

1294
01:18:22.199 --> 01:18:22.859
Do you know what I mean?

1295
01:18:22.920 --> 01:18:30.000
I could get a couple of my friends together and sit on a couch and just blow V 8 without doing any research or preparation for like hours.

1296
01:18:30.060 --> 01:18:30.720
Not at all like this.

1297
01:18:31.079 --> 01:18:36.659
But, um, but about time is meticulously researched.

1298
01:18:36.779 --> 01:18:39.300
It's really, really...

1299
01:18:39.300 --> 01:18:40.079
And they don't agree.

1300
01:18:40.140 --> 01:18:41.100
They don't get on.

1301
01:18:41.159 --> 01:18:42.960
So you get some really good moments.

1302
01:18:43.020 --> 01:18:43.800
I don't think so.

1303
01:18:43.859 --> 01:18:44.939
Yeah, I like that.

1304
01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:47.279
It's, it's, it's terrifically well written.

1305
01:18:47.340 --> 01:18:49.859
And if you need to know anything about the production, It's all there.

1306
01:18:49.979 --> 01:18:52.560
Like it's not just people's opinions.

1307
01:18:52.619 --> 01:19:01.380
There's lots of concrete detail about the production and lots and lots of really interesting stuff about the world into which each episode was transmitted.

1308
01:19:01.439 --> 01:19:07.500
But it is uproariously entertaining and funny, just terribly well, terribly, terribly good.

1309
01:19:07.560 --> 01:19:10.859
Well worth, well worth a look, really terribly, terribly good stuff.

1310
01:19:10.920 --> 01:19:18.600
And if you're at all interested in the sort of history of Doctor Who's production, there's really nowhere else you can go for that sort of information.

1311
01:19:19.199 --> 01:19:31.199
Well, my recommendation for this month, going from physical imprint books to a book that did have a very small physical print run, but I believe you can still get it as a PDF and we'll include a link on the website.

1312
01:19:31.260 --> 01:19:34.079
It's the wonderful book of Doctor Who, 1964.

1313
01:19:34.199 --> 01:19:35.520
Oh, golly.

1314
01:19:35.579 --> 01:19:35.939
What?

1315
01:19:36.000 --> 01:19:37.319
And what it is.

1316
01:19:37.859 --> 01:19:48.840
When Matt Smith started as the doctor, instead of doing annuals, the BBC started doing the brilliant book of Doctor Who, very well edited by Clayton Hickman.

1317
01:19:48.899 --> 01:19:49.979
Yeah, I mean, laughing's word.

1318
01:19:50.039 --> 01:19:54.600
Well, this is a book done in that style, but for Billy's 1st season.

1319
01:19:54.659 --> 01:19:55.619
Have you guys not seen it?

1320
01:19:55.680 --> 01:19:58.020
I think I've got the PDF on it.

1321
01:19:58.079 --> 01:20:00.539
Tom is a little extra in one of the DWEs.

1322
01:20:00.659 --> 01:20:03.359
No, no, that was another movie. because that's great. was very different.

1323
01:20:03.420 --> 01:20:08.760
But no, so this is exactly in that style with with fake interviews with Heart Law.

1324
01:20:08.819 --> 01:20:09.840
No.

1325
01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:13.319
And it you get a map of marinace.

1326
01:20:14.579 --> 01:20:25.079
If anybody's familiar with the velvet jacket DVD covers website, the artist on their Joe Cannon is one of the artists who put this book together.

1327
01:20:25.140 --> 01:20:31.199
I believe he's the head artist, but if you're the head artist and you're listening, I do apologise for getting that.

1328
01:20:31.319 --> 01:20:32.279
Please let us know.

1329
01:20:32.340 --> 01:20:33.239
Please let us know.

1330
01:20:33.300 --> 01:20:34.380
This is called the...

1331
01:20:34.439 --> 01:20:35.819
This is called the Wonderful...

1332
01:20:35.819 --> 01:20:37.560
The Wonderful Book of Doctor Who, 1964.

1333
01:20:37.739 --> 01:20:38.340
Look at this.

1334
01:20:38.399 --> 01:20:39.840
It's absolutely beautiful.

1335
01:20:39.899 --> 01:20:42.119
I have a PDF.

1336
01:20:42.180 --> 01:20:43.260
I hope I'm meant to have that.

1337
01:20:43.319 --> 01:20:50.819
I believe it's available for free download, but the limited print rum has ended, but it still looks beautiful on your computer screen.

1338
01:20:50.880 --> 01:20:52.020
So that's my recommendation.

1339
01:20:52.079 --> 01:20:52.920
Google it.

1340
01:20:52.979 --> 01:20:54.180
We will also include a link.

1341
01:20:54.239 --> 01:20:54.899
Yeah, please.

1342
01:20:54.960 --> 01:20:56.039
I'm looking forward to seeing that.

1343
01:20:56.159 --> 01:21:09.659
Well, as representing the elder fandom here, for default, if not choice, I've got to say, print medium is the 1st way I got to catch up with Doctor Who in the 70s and 80s and it's still my 1st go to of choice.

1344
01:21:09.720 --> 01:21:15.779
Please, if you haven't read them, find everything that David Whittaker has ever written and read it.

1345
01:21:15.840 --> 01:21:29.460
I know that it's the popular thing now to listen to the audios, but honestly, you don't have the subtleties of your own interpretation and your own voice that you get from just reading a paper book back novel.

1346
01:21:29.520 --> 01:21:31.260
I think there's only three.

1347
01:21:31.319 --> 01:21:34.380
David Whitaker in an exciting adventure with the Daleks.

1348
01:21:34.439 --> 01:21:37.020
I know it's meant to be Doctor Who, but we'll play it this way.

1349
01:21:37.079 --> 01:21:40.680
The Crusades and the 3rd one.

1350
01:21:40.739 --> 01:21:41.819
No, he didn't write the zerbie.

1351
01:21:41.880 --> 01:21:42.659
That was Bill Stratton.

1352
01:21:42.720 --> 01:21:43.859
It was Bill Stratton.

1353
01:21:43.920 --> 01:21:44.699
So it is just those two.

1354
01:21:44.760 --> 01:21:45.539
It is just the two.

1355
01:21:45.600 --> 01:21:48.180
Okay, because I was, yeah, and glorious.

1356
01:21:48.239 --> 01:21:59.760
If I can just add to that, Richard, you don't need to track down a copy of the originals because both of those have been reprinted by being reprinting their out right now with a lovely introduction and you can also get them as PDFs.

1357
01:21:59.819 --> 01:22:07.680
I actually have the audible.com audiobook of William Russell reading Doctor Who.

1358
01:22:07.680 --> 01:22:21.899
And I have heard that because BBC 4 played it last year and it's beautiful, but I honestly say, if you're used to hearing or getting your target novels as audios, just for these two, go back and read them in print because your own voice will make a difference.

1359
01:22:22.079 --> 01:22:23.520
They are actually quite beautiful.

1360
01:22:23.520 --> 01:22:35.399
And something to look out for in the, in both of them, really, is David Whittaker really focusses on and captures the relationship between Ian and Barbara.

1361
01:22:35.460 --> 01:22:37.500
I won't say anything more than that.

1362
01:22:37.560 --> 01:22:44.699
I think it's interesting to see how much the script editor's role was really involved because Dave Whitaker was script editor.

1363
01:22:44.760 --> 01:22:49.380
So much of his voice after reading the books, I can now see in that 1st series.

1364
01:22:51.000 --> 01:22:53.100
So there we have it.

1365
01:22:53.159 --> 01:22:59.880
I think that's everything we've got to say about the 1st season of Doctor Who.

1366
01:22:59.939 --> 01:23:07.560
So we'll be back next month with another two-part podcast in July for Doctor Who season two.

1367
01:23:07.619 --> 01:23:13.319
So we'll be looking at all the stories from Planet of Giants through to the Time Meddler inclusives.

1368
01:23:13.380 --> 01:23:14.399
A lot.

1369
01:23:14.460 --> 01:23:15.420
I'm so excited.

1370
01:23:15.479 --> 01:23:16.260
It's a great year.

1371
01:23:16.319 --> 01:23:17.460
It's fantastic year.

1372
01:23:17.520 --> 01:23:19.979
Yeah, we say goodbye to Susan and we say hello to Vicky.

1373
01:23:20.039 --> 01:23:21.060
Oh, thank God.

1374
01:23:21.119 --> 01:23:23.579
But we are getting ahead of ourselves.

1375
01:23:23.640 --> 01:23:25.439
So I'm going to say goodbye.

1376
01:23:25.800 --> 01:23:27.659
Oh, goodbye.

1377
01:23:27.720 --> 01:23:29.340
And goodbye and thank you.

1378
01:23:34.020 --> 01:23:39.300
You have been listening to Flat Through Entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones and Richard Stone.

1379
01:23:39.359 --> 01:23:43.319
This episode, Sir Maudlin, was recorded on June the 1st in Sydney, Australia.

1380
01:23:43.380 --> 01:23:45.600
The next episode will be released on July 20.

1381
01:23:46.079 --> 01:23:51.000
You can find us at flightthroughentirety.com or on Twitter at FTE podcast.

1382
01:23:51.060 --> 01:23:54.899
I'm going to go into a room in which no light will shine and fill that room with noise.

1383
01:23:54.960 --> 01:23:56.399
It's a One Direction concert.

1384
01:23:59.460 --> 01:24:03.300
Because you see, I, I, I don't, I think it's got very interesting ideas.

1385
01:24:03.359 --> 01:24:07.739
I don't rate it that highly though, but I find it...

1386
01:24:07.800 --> 01:24:10.859
That's okay, it was just, wasn't it, darling?

1387
01:24:10.920 --> 01:24:12.239
That's alright.

1388
01:24:12.300 --> 01:24:13.680
I find that.