WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:18:33

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Hello, welcome back for the 2nd half of William Hartnell's first

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series.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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And I'm Richard.

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And you are listening to Flight through Entirety, the only Doctor

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Who podcast where if you've had yours, you could have lent her

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hers.

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Billy Fluffs.

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Just keep coming, darling.

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See, they weren't fluffs.

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They were carefully planned.

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Carefully bluffed.

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Definitely planted on the Chesterfield of reasonable comfort.

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And speaking of carefully planned, we're going straight in with

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that carefully planned masterpiece epic of the story, the keys of

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marinace.

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Now, it was my responsibility to do a lot of research and I

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learned a fair amount about architecture and German expressionism

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in preparation for this.

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Silence from this corner of the podcast.

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In preparation for this episode of the podcast.

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This was my one.

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This was allocated to me on the grounds that last episode I said

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that I was the only person I knew who loved this story to death.

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It is the story that does divide, if not conquer.

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Well, Precisely.

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And so I did a great deal of research into architecture and German

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expressionist filmmaking.

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And I found that really none of it helped at all. in any way with

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an understanding of how this story gets a bit front bottom-y.

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You know, I take it all on board.

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And you're getting the explicit tag.

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It is, however, a Rakoustic design.

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Is it?

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I love Mr. Kusik.

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Especially the city of, um, is it morpheton, the city of

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Morpheton?

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dated some of those. worked for a lot of them.

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So the idea here, um, is this is very different from, um, anything

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that we've really seen this series.

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I mean, the series do before.

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This is our 2nd science fiction story.

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So we've had the Daleks, we've got a 2nd size fiction story.

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The motor science fiction story, though.

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Well, that's just saying.

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I don't feel it is.

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There's a computer.

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There's a big computer.

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It's got a big thing that goes warp, warp, but it doesn't feel

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science fiction to me.

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But aliens.

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So it's using, let's say it's using the, like, the tropes of

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science fiction to tell it sort of fairly.

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See, that's where we disagree.

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I don't feel it's this story ever gets beyond drawing room 50

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strong.

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No, no, no, no.

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It's good.

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It's good.

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Let me prove it.

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Okay, so, um, so we don't know what we're going to do yet.

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We've done the Daleks that knocked them out of the park by

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accident.

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Do you know what I mean?

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What are we going to do?

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Terry Nation back.

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We've got Ray Cucick back.

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It should be note perfect.

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And and I think it's better than people give it credit for.

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And I think part of the reason is that the show hasn't sort of

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betted down yet into, uh, Into stories.

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Cheers.

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Cheers.

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Cheers.

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It hasn't been it down into stories.

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You know, the idea that, you know, now from the savages onwards

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there are no individual episode titles. part one, part two, part

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three.

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And as fans, we all think of stories that way.

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And so we think that it's the keys to Marinus and it's a six-part

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story.

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But of course, it isn't really that.

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What it is, it's a series of one part stories, then a two-part

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story, and then we go back for a sequel to the initial one part

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story.

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And so it's a little bit more like the 1st series of rebooted

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Doctor Who, where there is kind of a link between all of the

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episodes, but each episode is in a different place and has an

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individual episode title.

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And so, so, I actually think that however tiresome an individual

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bit of it might be, it's over quite quickly.

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Do you know what I mean?

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And you're telling stories in 25?

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Too many windows, too many revelations.

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But you know, you're telling stories in 25 minutes and so they

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never they never get bogged down.

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Do you know what I mean?

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And they tend to be quite simple and resolved in quite a simple

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way.

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And I think that's quite fun, you know?

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Um, And everyone gets a week off and so you get sort of slightly

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different regular cast each episode.

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And I mean, it is sort of standard tiresome Terry Nation stuff

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like in in the stuff on the on millennia. you know, where Ian's

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charged with murder.

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I think twice people inadvertently blurt out their plans.

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And then I was watching something the other day where it was in a

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Dalek master plan where someone inadvertently blurts out the fact

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that like Maddic Chan inadvertently blurts something out, you know

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and ruins his whole plan or something.

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Um, You know, so it's all those sort of tiresome teen Asian things

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but, but they're still not really tiresome yet.

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You know, when we've sat through a few years of Blake 7 and

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Destiny of the Daleks and stuff, we'll all be truly exhausted by

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them.

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But you're right.

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They're still new.

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They're still reasonably fresh.

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And we have some amazing cast members.

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We've got George Caluras, as straight from Awesome Wells Theatre

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you know, worked with the wonderful Patrick Maguan and Mr. Wells

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himself, as, you know, Jane Walker.

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I was going to say, and they're redoubtable.

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Fiona, you're redoubtable.

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Francis DeWolf?

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No, I have no idea who that is.

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I saw the trapper.

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Vasor, the rapey vasor.

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It's so bizarre as well.

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And this is kids TV.

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Really, really early on.

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It's like a lot of the times, people are rapey towards Barbara, and

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it never towards super particular.

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They're really creepily, so yeah.

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There's a stack of it though.

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Like she's going to be forcibly married or something.

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Vasor is really chasing around that heart.

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Yeah, there is no ambiguity in that scene at all.

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No, there's not.

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And when you go back to, say, an unearthly child.

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At one point, Za sort of reaches out to her, but it's more like

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you know, she's so clean and well presented.

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You don't get the impression there that it's desire or anything.

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It's curiosity.

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The 1st woman who's met, he's met with dental hygiene.

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Indeed.

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He doesn't smell like a dead cow.

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You know, they saw is so... that he treats Barbara worse than she

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is treated by a caveman.

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Doesn't that say at all?

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If we're going on to the whole feminist politics of this 1st

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season.

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Women are really there as symbols of, you know, have not been to

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not be raped.

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The perils of Pauline thing, put the woman in a point of crisis so

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that she'll appear to be vulnerable and therefore sexually

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attractive.

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It's pretty nasty.

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But they do.

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But then again, that's that's exactly what our culture was.

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But in a way, and I think a lot of this could come down to Verity

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Lambert, being such a strong woman in a male dominated industry.

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Whenever Barbara is in a situation of peril like that, she doesn't

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just wait to be rescued.

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Like when Vasos chasing her around.

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She throws a bowl full of steaming soup in his face.

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You know, she doesn't, she is put in those stereotypical

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situations.

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But she tries to fight her out.

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Inevitably, yes, she is rescued by Ian or another man.

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So Altos.

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With his little undies.

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Yes, in the snow.

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With his thighs.

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It didn't worry me, the thighs in the snow.

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Do you know what I mean?

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He has to be awfully, awfully cold.

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Well, Ian does have to rub his head.

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Oh, yes, he does.

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Which is a thoroughly unpleasant scene, of course.

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Yeah, that was sarcasm.

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But yeah, I mean, just getting back to Barbara.

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It's kind of weird because you have this tension of, yes, she is

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treated in a very sexist manner, but she responds in a very she

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responds in a very strong manner that, unfortunately, is only

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noticeable because of the way women are treated in adventure

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programs.

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But I guess, I guess I have to say that the thing is successful

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because it, um, it presents some really striking and memorable

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images, um, and the story sort of, I mean, you know, sort of

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mostly nonsense, really, but, but, you know, the brains with eye

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stalks.

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I think that's fantastic.

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Barbara smashes the brains with eye stalks.

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Under Beljars, 40, 50 years before Futurama.

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We have it first.

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Yeah.

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So, and and there's also um, someone is it Gaitus or someone who

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says that their 1st memory of Doctor Who is the ice soldiers

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waking up.

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I think it is...

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It's kind of lovely.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And again, just these sort of memorable images and they know how

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to sort of make memorable images.

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So the story might be a bit pants or a bit simplistic, although I

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was I just was never bored because I knew that this bit would be

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over with them, we'd be on...

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It's a play for today, done as we would have seen it episodically

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weekly, just as it was done in other, in many other means in many

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other ways on BBC and ITV.

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And I guess that's, it's blessing and for me, it's kind of cursed

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that it's, it's so wonderful that it's showing the Doctor Who can

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do anything and be anything you want through the medium of TV

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showing us what TV is.

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But it's also just kind of doing what other stations are doing

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another time slots on the beat, but already.

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It isn't massively inventive, but I think that's a problem this

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season with the science fiction stories.

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Like we essentially get 3 science fiction stories and we're

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alternating between historical and science fiction.

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And the 3 science fiction stories, none of them really totally

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work.

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And I think, I think eventually, you know, uh, that I'll find, you

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know, menacing monsters and stuff for an important, a threatening

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science, of a, of a science fiction story that works, as at work

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in the Daleks.

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There's no real threatening monsters in, um, uh, keys of marinas.

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And again, sensorized don't have it either.

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And so they struggle to find out exactly what they're for.

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And like, I actually like the sense rights, as we'll discover when

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we get to it, I like his, Mariners, I kind of like the Daleks, but

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they're not, they're not what the show's eventually going to

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settle on us.

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Maybe not, but you see, I love sensor rights, I think.

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I feel my part of that is that I feel really strong, that the

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sensor rights can look dull to us now because it's such a trope

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but that back then it was the 1st show, my belief, to give us the

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template for a real Doctor Who SF story, and it does it in a way

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the Daleks didn't do it.

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Yeah, alien does not equal evil.

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In a whole lot of other interesting things.

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And and talking about the aliens in case of mariners, the board.

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The big problem with the board.

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The alien lord.

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The alien board and Yartek, their leader.

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Yacht indeed.

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Is that, you know, they turn up at the Pyramid of Arbitan to take

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control of the conscience.

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And then the doctor and friends are sent off to find the keys.

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And it's kind of like you would expect then the board to go after

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them.

254
00:12:02.100 --> 00:12:05.879
So you've got someone chasing them, which, of course, Terry Nation

255
00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:09.360
will return to later in the 1965.

256
00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:13.620
But it's kind of old that it doesn't have...

257
00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:18.000
They just sort of, they sit there in the pyramid waiting for the

258
00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:21.960
others to come back, which maybe the Black Guardian was involved.

259
00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:23.460
No, you've got it there.

260
00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:25.259
It's the passivity of the narrative.

261
00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:27.480
This is not the how we know our characters to behave.

262
00:12:27.539 --> 00:12:28.440
I can't decide.

263
00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:32.039
I think I think the Vord don't pursue them because they belong to

264
00:12:32.039 --> 00:12:36.059
episodes one and six, which are separate stories. and so they're

265
00:12:36.059 --> 00:12:36.840
not into...

266
00:12:36.899 --> 00:12:39.059
The board don't pursue them because there's some Freudian

267
00:12:39.059 --> 00:12:44.759
archetype of some kinky, slippery, rubbery thing with handles on

268
00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:46.980
the heads that weigh before the cybermen is.

269
00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:48.899
I think they're actually one of the most sexually charged.

270
00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:52.200
They are the sexually charged archetype of this season.

271
00:12:52.259 --> 00:12:53.220
They are extraordinary.

272
00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:54.419
Don't forget.

273
00:12:54.419 --> 00:12:55.440
It's great in a hoodie.

274
00:12:55.500 --> 00:12:57.779
I think Yante Yante looks great in the hoodie.

275
00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:00.299
Oh, if you want to know how Yartik looks out of his hoodie, he

276
00:13:00.299 --> 00:13:02.879
turns up in...

277
00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:07.500
Sensorites with a lovely Billy Gray job and then under a lovely

278
00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:08.580
hairdressing...

279
00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:09.600
Wait, who is he?

280
00:13:09.659 --> 00:13:10.679
John Censoro.

281
00:13:10.740 --> 00:13:14.100
He's the mad astronaut. is John in censor rights kids.

282
00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:15.299
We are going to get to that soon.

283
00:13:15.419 --> 00:13:17.279
Don't forget, this is exact.

284
00:13:17.340 --> 00:13:18.419
I find the vaard really interesting.

285
00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:21.360
This is at the time, just before the perfumer scamblers, we later

286
00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:23.879
discovered that Prince Philip, yeah, this can get cut.

287
00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:44.519
There were guys standing around in wetsuits doing unspeakable

288
00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:46.679
things, possibly whilst Doctor Who was being played.

289
00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:48.419
Do you want me to redo that?

290
00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:52.799
Well, just... under no circumstance.

291
00:13:52.860 --> 00:13:55.139
No, I'll just cut it down to you referring to...

292
00:14:01.620 --> 00:14:04.679
So, But all of this is true.

293
00:14:04.740 --> 00:14:08.940
And I do think that they do represent some really kind of, they

294
00:14:08.940 --> 00:14:12.299
were designed to make Toya Wilcox all wibbly inside.

295
00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:13.919
Exactly.

296
00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:16.139
She does find the sidemen's sex.

297
00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:17.460
They're wrong on lots of levels.

298
00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:20.580
They're really, they're disturbing and they're really sexually

299
00:14:20.580 --> 00:14:20.820
charged.

300
00:14:20.940 --> 00:14:23.519
And it's interesting when you consider that they want to destroy

301
00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:24.539
the ordered society.

302
00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:25.440
Don't they, though?

303
00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:26.159
Of Marinus.

304
00:14:26.220 --> 00:14:28.379
They...

305
00:14:28.379 --> 00:14:29.340
I love them.

306
00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:29.639
Yeah.

307
00:14:29.700 --> 00:14:30.840
Well, when you look at it.

308
00:14:30.899 --> 00:14:33.539
And the thing is, you kind of you kind of then meet the people

309
00:14:33.539 --> 00:14:36.120
from all around mariners, and they're a bunch of wet fish.

310
00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:40.799
Although the story does give us Doctor Who's 1st female villain.

311
00:14:40.860 --> 00:14:42.480
Fiona Walker.

312
00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:43.440
Fiona Walker.

313
00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:46.019
The Eternal Fiona Walker, all things.

314
00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:47.399
Carla.

315
00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:48.179
Yes, Carla.

316
00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:51.059
All things shall soon be hers.

317
00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:52.080
Yes, indeed.

318
00:14:52.139 --> 00:14:56.639
And she, the thing is, she is easily the best guest artist in the

319
00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:56.820
story.

320
00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:58.379
Yes, season one.

321
00:14:58.440 --> 00:14:59.639
She's going to go out there on a lean.

322
00:14:59.700 --> 00:15:00.659
I think you have her.

323
00:15:00.659 --> 00:15:02.460
Oh, we've got the Aztecs coming up next year.

324
00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:04.259
Yeah, but that's...

325
00:15:04.259 --> 00:15:06.179
Barbara being marvellous, not?

326
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:07.740
Sorry, it's still Fiona Walker?

327
00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:09.059
Some female ghost.

328
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:09.600
She's it.

329
00:15:09.659 --> 00:15:11.879
And the thing is, you know, she is given...

330
00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:15.840
As much as I love keys of marinace, she is given not the best

331
00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.179
material to work with, like it's quite cliche.

332
00:15:18.299 --> 00:15:23.340
Which just shows how great she is with it. of a man's part, and

333
00:15:23.340 --> 00:15:26.340
it's being given to a woman, and much like Kathy Gale, and we keep

334
00:15:26.340 --> 00:15:28.679
referring to Kathy Gale, if you don't know who she is, Google.

335
00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:32.340
Even more so, she's playing Dietrich in Witness for the

336
00:15:32.340 --> 00:15:35.519
Prosecution. which we mentioned last week, the courtroom dramas

337
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:39.600
are based very much even the cutting scenes on Billy Wilder, the

338
00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:42.840
great Billy Wilder, who gave us comedies such as Some Like It

339
00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:43.200
Hot.

340
00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:44.159
Yep.

341
00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:45.960
A whole host of others.

342
00:15:46.019 --> 00:15:47.940
Please Google him.

343
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:51.240
Those courtroom scenes, if you don't know witness for the

344
00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:54.600
prosecution, Dietrich, Marlena Dietrich, and a Silk Fascinator

345
00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:57.899
interestingly, has been pointed out by other critics, Billy's

346
00:15:57.899 --> 00:16:03.600
performances, have been likened to hers, the way that he presents

347
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:06.299
the way that he reads his lines, certainly the way he works as

348
00:16:06.299 --> 00:16:08.940
there was a whole school of acting at that time, that you work

349
00:16:08.940 --> 00:16:10.620
with your eyes in cinema.

350
00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:15.059
Keep it really simple, keep your face passive, let your eyes do

351
00:16:15.059 --> 00:16:15.779
all of the work.

352
00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:19.259
Billy definitely does this certainly in season one.

353
00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:22.379
He follows a lot of Dietrich's tricks.

354
00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:26.100
And, um, it's worth looking at, though, if you, if you love Maron

355
00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:29.399
let's look at the scenes of, um, of hope of trail because Fiona

356
00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:31.799
Walker is definitely lifting Dietrich's performance.

357
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:34.980
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Terry Nation was lifting, you

358
00:16:34.980 --> 00:16:35.940
know, the entire plot.

359
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:37.740
Romeoing us.

360
00:16:37.860 --> 00:16:41.220
I believe that Billy and Marlena Dietrich actually wore the same

361
00:16:41.220 --> 00:16:42.000
week for those scenes.

362
00:16:42.059 --> 00:16:44.340
Well, there's a lot of, yeah, there's a lot.

363
00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:45.480
It's not me saying it.

364
00:16:45.539 --> 00:16:46.379
I read it elsewhere.

365
00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:49.559
There's a lot of a lot of Billy's performances based on DJs.

366
00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:49.799
Yes.

367
00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:51.779
There's Detri...

368
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:52.440
Totally.

369
00:16:52.500 --> 00:16:53.100
Really?

370
00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:59.340
Dietrich built a secret train line from from Berlin to get the

371
00:16:59.340 --> 00:17:01.860
Jews and the poofs and the actors out.

372
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:05.519
She was the one who put most who put most of the money up for

373
00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:09.779
reviving this underground train line that was then buried.

374
00:17:10.140 --> 00:17:14.640
And getting up, I'll look up the facts and I'll put it on the, put

375
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:16.859
it on the, on the page.

376
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:18.480
It's an extraordinary story.

377
00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:22.859
She did some amazing things in Vaima, Germany, uh, post-fine my

378
00:17:22.859 --> 00:17:24.720
Germany after the after Glass Ship.

379
00:17:24.779 --> 00:17:30.000
She was a real hero to theatre all around the world and to actors

380
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:33.960
and her performances and her codifying her way of performing was

381
00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:35.519
something that was looked at.

382
00:17:35.579 --> 00:17:38.279
I'm not just throwing her in as a No, no, no, no, no, no.

383
00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:41.160
Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah But Fiona Walker's performance is very much

384
00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:43.559
Dietrich's in Witness for the Prosecution.

385
00:17:43.619 --> 00:17:47.640
She's, I mean, it's apart from the fact that Fiona Walker is God's

386
00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:49.619
gift. story.

387
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:55.079
And again, you know, another sort of rightly reviled story, Silver

388
00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:57.059
Nemesis, she's fabulous.

389
00:17:57.059 --> 00:17:59.039
Fighting words.

390
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:00.480
I love silver.

391
00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:02.579
But we've got about 2 years before we do.

392
00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:05.819
If any of you are still with us or indeed still alive when we get

393
00:18:05.819 --> 00:18:06.359
there, yeah.

394
00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:08.880
Not if you have to go to the doctor.

395
00:18:08.940 --> 00:18:10.680
Okay, sorry, political reference.

396
00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:12.900
So are we moving on?

397
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:13.380
Oh, no.

398
00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:14.819
Oh, no, no, no, no.

399
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:15.119
Yes.

400
00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:16.319
What did ding-aling?

401
00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:17.220
What did rot say?

402
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:18.599
Nothing segment.

403
00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:20.880
Nothing funny until the censor writes.

404
00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:23.819
Okay, well, harsh criticism.

405
00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:26.339
This is Adventures with the bloke in space, isn't it?

406
00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:27.480
Well, the whole.

407
00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:28.079
Oh, well, okay.

408
00:18:28.140 --> 00:18:29.099
Shame on you, Roll.

409
00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:32.339
His comments for keys of Marinus were interesting ideas such as

410
00:18:32.339 --> 00:18:33.960
the acid C and subs to get through it.

411
00:18:34.019 --> 00:18:36.960
Vord looked very alien, excellent story, 7 out of 10.

412
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:40.920
I really like I really like the bit where they're outside the

413
00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:44.279
pyramid and people keep falling into the pyramid.

414
00:18:44.339 --> 00:18:47.160
And it's like a magic door opens and then they're in the pyramid

415
00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:50.099
and everyone else is wandering around outside the pyramid going

416
00:18:50.099 --> 00:18:51.839
ooh, where's that other person gone?

417
00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:54.180
And then they go in the pyramid.

418
00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:55.619
Carry on marinace, really.

419
00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:59.940
And following on from Ian's wonderful education of line, line of

420
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:02.940
Do you know who we still use the word hashish in English today

421
00:19:02.940 --> 00:19:03.299
Susan?

422
00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:05.220
is look at this wall.

423
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:06.119
There's no mortar.

424
00:19:06.180 --> 00:19:08.400
It must have been built with tremendous accuracy.

425
00:19:08.460 --> 00:19:12.359
And William Russell, by this point, is clearly just going, this is

426
00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:14.099
terrible, terrible dialogue.

427
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:15.299
I'm going to have fun.

428
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:16.680
Look at this wall.

429
00:19:16.740 --> 00:19:19.200
Do you think it was a throw into in the hashish thing?

430
00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:20.339
This is important to point out.

431
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:23.339
This is, perhaps, this is this is the point where the Beatles are

432
00:19:23.339 --> 00:19:26.220
starting to smoke cannabis. semi publicly.

433
00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:29.700
Okay, they're done all of the Hamburg stuff, but this is the point

434
00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:31.559
where they were being...

435
00:19:31.619 --> 00:19:31.980
Yeah, yeah.

436
00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:32.940
No, when this story went out.

437
00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:35.519
This is the point where they were actually being shot smoking

438
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:38.099
reefers. kind of exciting kids.

439
00:19:39.059 --> 00:19:41.519
I will say, though, in that scene...

440
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.099
We don't encourage the...

441
00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:47.039
I will say, though, in that scene where Ian's getting terribly

442
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:49.980
excited about the pyramid construction, he is camper than the time

443
00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:50.940
you played Ian.

444
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:51.420
Really?

445
00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:53.039
That's very hard to believe.

446
00:19:53.099 --> 00:19:57.839
For those of you who don't know, Nathan once played in Chesty Bond

447
00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:00.839
I believe the name was, in a Doctor Who play called There's

448
00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:03.839
Something About Magnus, the guy who drained me more on that

449
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:04.799
story.

450
00:20:04.859 --> 00:20:05.460
Oh, really?

451
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:06.240
Do we have to have that?

452
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:09.660
Thankfully, we've just had the sound meaning we need to move on to

453
00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:10.140
the Aztecs.

454
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:11.460
Ding, a link, ding.

455
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:14.940
Okay, so the Aztecs is mine as well.

456
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:16.740
Yeah, coincidence.

457
00:20:16.859 --> 00:20:20.400
Well, this is one of the ones where what's not to love.

458
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:21.420
Oh my god.

459
00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:23.759
No, no, no. like Seeds of Death, right?

460
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:24.779
In the...

461
00:20:24.779 --> 00:20:29.640
I put the video on and then by halfway through episode 2 hours

462
00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:31.680
always sort of doing the ironing or backing.

463
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:35.400
And like, I feel really terrible about it because the fan

464
00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:37.500
consensuses that it's sort of terribly brilliant.

465
00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:41.880
And so I'm doing it properly as I watch my way through the series

466
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:42.480
now.

467
00:20:43.619 --> 00:20:48.180
And so I did sit down and I just watched it and I watched a couple

468
00:20:48.180 --> 00:20:52.019
you know, watching 2 settings, paid proper attention to it.

469
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.920
And It has a lot going for it.

470
00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:57.660
You know, it's beautifully designed.

471
00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:01.619
It foregrounds Barbara, which is always a great idea.

472
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:07.259
It gives Barbara and Billy lots of time to interact and things.

473
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:09.480
There's all sorts of delightful things about it.

474
00:21:09.539 --> 00:21:16.559
But, I still have to say that I don't quite get why it received

475
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:22.619
the fan adulation that it does receive and I'd be fascinated to

476
00:21:22.619 --> 00:21:24.839
hear you 2 charming gentlemen.

477
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:26.279
Yes, it's very controversial.

478
00:21:26.339 --> 00:21:26.880
Do you think?

479
00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:27.599
trying to be cool.

480
00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:29.640
I'm trying to not be a dick about it.

481
00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:31.079
No, no, no, you're being fine.

482
00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:32.640
But it is just wrong.

483
00:21:32.700 --> 00:21:36.660
And you know, part of it is that part of it is that stupid

484
00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:41.279
childish, you know, lowbrow thing that I have, which is where are

485
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:44.579
the monsters, you know, like, you know, if we had the Aztecs.

486
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:46.559
So maybe some pterreleptols.

487
00:21:46.619 --> 00:21:47.460
Really?

488
00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:48.359
No, not really.

489
00:21:48.420 --> 00:21:52.859
But like I haven't, I do, I know, no, no, it's embarrassing, but

490
00:21:52.859 --> 00:21:57.720
the historicals thing, I actually find a bit boring because of the

491
00:21:57.720 --> 00:21:59.099
lack of science fiction elements.

492
00:21:59.160 --> 00:21:59.880
I'm so sorry.

493
00:21:59.940 --> 00:22:02.640
And you're an educator of yours.

494
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:03.539
I know, no, no.

495
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.000
Like the Romans is a notable exception.

496
00:22:06.059 --> 00:22:09.839
And I have to say that I recently enjoyed the myth makers as well

497
00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:11.640
but great.

498
00:22:11.700 --> 00:22:13.980
See, I find that the entire opposite.

499
00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:17.400
That, that, it's an historical for me is a lot more interesting

500
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:19.920
because we get to the real subtleties.

501
00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:21.480
To me, it's much closer to life.

502
00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:25.259
Once you put a bloke in a rubber suit, I'm not really in the

503
00:22:25.259 --> 00:22:25.440
room.

504
00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:27.180
That's when I actually turn the iron on.

505
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:32.279
So the historical to me, it just, how am I fitting into this?

506
00:22:32.339 --> 00:22:32.940
How do I feel?

507
00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:36.420
What I love about this story is that it's Barbara giving us.

508
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:38.759
It's Barbara's full entry into the narrative.

509
00:22:38.819 --> 00:22:39.839
She owns this story.

510
00:22:39.900 --> 00:22:43.019
I will always love this story because it gives Jackie Hill a

511
00:22:43.019 --> 00:22:44.700
chance to be front and foremost.

512
00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:48.119
And my God, if they'd called it Jackie who, I'd be, you know.

513
00:22:49.019 --> 00:22:50.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

514
00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:53.039
Yeah, he is there with Jackie Moo.

515
00:22:53.099 --> 00:22:54.539
This is for me.

516
00:22:54.660 --> 00:22:58.319
Okay, I'd like to know what everyone else thinks, but this is, for

517
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:01.740
me, it's one of the 1st feminist pieces of TV I ever saw.

518
00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:06.059
And it's this season that does it for me more than, well, actually

519
00:23:06.059 --> 00:23:08.279
absolutely, more than any of the others that come.

520
00:23:08.339 --> 00:23:09.240
It's about the women.

521
00:23:09.299 --> 00:23:12.720
For me, starting off, it's about Susan, as the narrative develops

522
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:19.619
because Caroline Ford is so shortly served and given comes

523
00:23:19.619 --> 00:23:22.920
straight back from being an extraordinary extraterrestrial, us

524
00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:25.980
being the viewer being in the narrative to some irritating

525
00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:30.119
schoolchild who never varies beyond 3 emotions for the entire

526
00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:32.220
season until we get to sensorized.

527
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:36.000
So they're panic, hysteria, and a slightly different kind of

528
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:36.480
panic.

529
00:23:36.539 --> 00:23:37.440
Got it.

530
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:39.000
In one.

531
00:23:39.059 --> 00:23:43.380
Whereas Barbara can put on something that looks exactly like one

532
00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:46.259
of Peter Scully's fabulous designs for Mardi Gras and look totally

533
00:23:46.259 --> 00:23:46.740
at home.

534
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:51.660
I will rule the world and I'll do it fairly, and this is why I

535
00:23:51.660 --> 00:23:52.440
love this show.

536
00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:57.599
It's how do we, in the 20th century, look at our past, it is our

537
00:23:57.599 --> 00:23:58.140
past.

538
00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:00.059
We are an imperial culture.

539
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:03.900
I'd like to throw in what you think about the cologne, the post

540
00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:04.799
colonial aspects of this season.

541
00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:07.259
So you see, I don't think it is post-colonial.

542
00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:09.420
And I think that that's part of the problem that takes me out of

543
00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:09.539
it.

544
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:11.819
Yeah, Barbara is trying to colonise, isn't she?

545
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:13.140
But no, no, no.

546
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:15.720
I thought she's narrating the, please go on.

547
00:24:15.779 --> 00:24:20.099
Well, because I think that the problem is that the narrative

548
00:24:20.099 --> 00:24:24.240
explicitly says that the reason that the Aztec society is doomed

549
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:29.279
at the hands of Cortez is because it's immoral, because they have

550
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:30.779
human sacrifice.

551
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:35.039
And so when Cortez comes along, he'll be a moral...

552
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:36.900
With his kind, gentle slaughtering way.

553
00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:38.039
Yeah, yeah. you know what I mean?

554
00:24:38.099 --> 00:24:38.940
He'll be a moral force.

555
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:40.680
And so there is a kind of...

556
00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:42.599
Pretty close for us Australian viewers. you know?

557
00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:46.859
Well, there is a kind of post-colonial thing in that, you know

558
00:24:46.859 --> 00:24:51.960
it's set in the new world. all of the characters are, you know, non

559
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:54.000
European and so on.

560
00:24:54.059 --> 00:25:02.339
But the, the explanation for, for the fall of Aztec society is so

561
00:25:02.339 --> 00:25:02.940
horrible.

562
00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:03.960
Do you know what I mean?

563
00:25:04.019 --> 00:25:05.220
It's so dark.

564
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:10.680
No, no, I'm saying it's just historically wrong and neurocentric.

565
00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:16.380
Like Cortez doesn't, doesn't triumph because he brings superior

566
00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:19.859
European values that outclass the Aztecs.

567
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:23.220
And as tech society doesn't fall because it has human sacrifice.

568
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:26.400
Aztec society falls because ruthless people with steel.

569
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:27.299
Exactly, and horses.

570
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:31.019
Because Cortez brings guns, germs, and steel as Jared Diamond

571
00:25:31.019 --> 00:25:31.680
Rose.

572
00:25:31.740 --> 00:25:33.059
It's a great book if you haven't read it.

573
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:36.480
I don't believe this narrative gives us anything other than

574
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.700
complete damnation of European copies.

575
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.599
No, no, I don't think no, Barbara Barbara explicitly says that the

576
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:46.440
reason that she wants to put a stop to the human sacrifices is so

577
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:48.420
that there's some hope that this...

578
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:49.920
The Cortes will be curtailed.

579
00:25:50.940 --> 00:25:53.940
So Barbara there, she is a colonising force, but she's trying to

580
00:25:53.940 --> 00:25:55.680
bring the best of colonialism.

581
00:25:55.740 --> 00:26:00.420
But she's trying to bring the idea of civilisation and not

582
00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:03.420
civilisation such as we will come and use your land and you will

583
00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:03.779
serve us.

584
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:07.680
She's trying to bring, look, in our civilisation, we don't kill

585
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:08.099
people.

586
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:12.059
Which, of course, in England at the time, they still did for

587
00:26:12.059 --> 00:26:12.539
murder.

588
00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:15.299
Well, oh, no.

589
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:16.259
Derek Bentley.

590
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:17.460
Only just.

591
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:18.240
Only just.

592
00:26:18.299 --> 00:26:21.359
But yeah, but you're right, because it was a major point of

593
00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:24.539
discussion. in British politics and media at the time.

594
00:26:24.660 --> 00:26:25.799
And of course, you know what?

595
00:26:25.859 --> 00:26:30.359
Barbara probably would not support that in the slightest, yeah.

596
00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:32.940
But the thing, she's trying to bring this whole thing of...

597
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:34.200
Did we mention we love Barbara?

598
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:34.740
Oh, we do.

599
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:36.420
Really, do we?

600
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:38.099
I'm kidding.

601
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:39.900
But she's trying to bring this whole thing off.

602
00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:42.660
You know, I'm not going to bring the subjugation of colonialism.

603
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:45.240
I'm going to bring the fact that you do not need to kill people to

604
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:45.720
make rain.

605
00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:47.279
I'm going to bring education.

606
00:26:47.339 --> 00:26:48.539
That's why it's exciting.

607
00:26:48.660 --> 00:26:50.880
And it's Barbara, the history teacher saying, I'm going to bring

608
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:51.779
science to these people.

609
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:55.140
Yeah, and Ian, you can just shut up for four. exactly.

610
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:57.000
It kind of does, does it?

611
00:26:57.059 --> 00:26:57.420
Yeah, he does.

612
00:26:57.480 --> 00:26:58.980
He doesn't fight.

613
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:03.359
Yeah, and there's a lot of short skirtiness and thigh action and

614
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:04.019
it's kind of good.

615
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:07.380
Why is he better than the sort of Aztec Warriors at fun just

616
00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:08.339
because he's our leader?

617
00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:09.240
Better fed and taller.

618
00:27:09.299 --> 00:27:09.900
No, come on.

619
00:27:09.900 --> 00:27:11.940
And the implication that...

620
00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:15.359
And he's watched a lot of TV, so and he was in Ivanhook, so he

621
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:15.900
knows what to do.

622
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:19.980
The implication that Paul Cornell keep Keith topping and Martin

623
00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:22.859
Day bring in the discontinuity guide is it ended national

624
00:27:22.859 --> 00:27:23.279
service.

625
00:27:23.339 --> 00:27:24.480
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.

626
00:27:24.539 --> 00:27:25.440
Oh, that's right.

627
00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:27.420
He's had hand-to-hand training.

628
00:27:27.539 --> 00:27:28.980
He's done self- defence. gentleman.

629
00:27:29.099 --> 00:27:31.619
And that means, you know, that he can hit someone with his thumb

630
00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:34.740
on their shoulder blade, hit a nerve, and they'll fall down, which

631
00:27:34.740 --> 00:27:35.339
is...

632
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:36.720
Oh, Star Trek is still free.

633
00:27:36.779 --> 00:27:37.680
Star Trek. yes.

634
00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:41.940
But that brings me to what I particularly love about the story.

635
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:45.000
Of course, you've got all the Barbara brilliantness of it.

636
00:27:45.059 --> 00:27:46.140
Brilliantness.

637
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:47.640
Yeah, yeah, brilliant.

638
00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:48.779
Theology is a frightening.

639
00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:49.440
That's a word.

640
00:27:49.500 --> 00:27:50.039
Brilliant.

641
00:27:50.099 --> 00:27:56.460
Um, But what you've also got is all of The supporting characters

642
00:27:56.460 --> 00:27:59.400
are characters, even...

643
00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:00.359
What you mean, they're not real?

644
00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:02.819
Can I just say clutoxyl?

645
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:03.599
Clutoxyl?

646
00:28:04.019 --> 00:28:05.579
Could you say that again?

647
00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:06.599
I just got a little warm.

648
00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:08.220
Can you actually say it?

649
00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:11.460
It's Quexal codal for us kids who just read it out of the book.

650
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:14.940
Um, but even even Clotoxel.

651
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:16.200
He's not just...

652
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:18.720
It's a bilateral...

653
00:28:18.779 --> 00:28:20.279
No, it really is.

654
00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:22.140
I'm paid to know this.

655
00:28:22.140 --> 00:28:23.700
I'm going to be using that.

656
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:25.259
Everyday parts?

657
00:28:25.500 --> 00:28:31.859
So Toxel is not just a villain who doesn't like the hero, so he's

658
00:28:31.859 --> 00:28:32.759
going to be the villain.

659
00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:35.400
He genuinely believes that this will be the end of his

660
00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:36.000
civilisation.

661
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:41.099
Yeah, and if we follow new and... social imperative for opposing

662
00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:42.180
Barbara.

663
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:45.059
You know, Barbara says at one point... your taxel?

664
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:45.599
How we pronounce?

665
00:28:45.660 --> 00:28:46.380
You tax her.

666
00:28:46.380 --> 00:28:47.279
You tax her.

667
00:28:47.339 --> 00:28:48.000
Who are we talking about?

668
00:28:48.059 --> 00:28:49.319
Barbara's...

669
00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:50.039
Barbara's taxa.

670
00:28:50.099 --> 00:28:50.819
New taxer.

671
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:54.180
Barbara does say at one point, oh, you know, he just wants power

672
00:28:54.180 --> 00:28:55.259
but I don't think he does.

673
00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:58.920
I think he genuinely believes that if they follow Yetux's

674
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:00.180
teachings, will all die.

675
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.960
So he really does the people, as well as she's trying to protect

676
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:04.259
the people.

677
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:07.619
And then you've got Ortlock, you know, who's his beautiful soul

678
00:29:07.619 --> 00:29:09.960
who's ready to listen to Barbara, but no one's ready to listen to

679
00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:10.140
him.

680
00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:11.279
Yeah exactly.

681
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:16.680
So you've got all these characters. who are well-drawn characters

682
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:17.579
in their own right.

683
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:22.680
And the villain is not actually a villain. within the social

684
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:23.880
constraints of his...

685
00:29:23.940 --> 00:29:26.700
Yeah, it's like everyone is trying to do the best they can, not

686
00:29:26.700 --> 00:29:27.960
just for themselves, but for their culture.

687
00:29:28.019 --> 00:29:28.859
Except for him.

688
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:31.319
Well, he's fighting.

689
00:29:31.380 --> 00:29:32.519
Fighting away.

690
00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:35.640
He gets to actually be the bit of skirt in this.

691
00:29:35.700 --> 00:29:37.559
That's another reason why I love it.

692
00:29:37.619 --> 00:29:40.440
The bloke is right down there just performing a role.

693
00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:43.619
No one has mentioned Coutura.

694
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:45.000
Kameka.

695
00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:46.559
Well, it's the same thing, isn't it?

696
00:29:46.619 --> 00:29:47.339
Isn't the same thing?

697
00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:49.200
She becomes couture later, yeah.

698
00:29:49.259 --> 00:29:51.059
But yes, Jamaica, 0 my God.

699
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:53.819
But Billy has his little bit of romantic for a song.

700
00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:55.740
It's really sweet.

701
00:29:55.799 --> 00:29:58.019
I don't mind admitting I cry at the end.

702
00:29:59.700 --> 00:30:01.920
Tom Silvera is delicious in this.

703
00:30:02.819 --> 00:30:03.539
It's not...

704
00:30:03.539 --> 00:30:05.099
Sorry, it's Margo Vanderberg.

705
00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:05.640
Margaret.

706
00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:06.599
Margaret.

707
00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:08.220
For me, it's always a low, low.

708
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:13.319
I'm projecting.

709
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:14.460
I'm projecting, yeah.

710
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:17.279
You're right, and she's and she's lovely.

711
00:30:17.339 --> 00:30:18.359
She is terrific.

712
00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:19.319
And there is that thing.

713
00:30:19.380 --> 00:30:25.859
Like, you remember the rumours that when the 5 doctors came out, um

714
00:30:25.859 --> 00:30:30.420
was being made, John Nathan Turner was going to prevent Carol Anne

715
00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:31.920
Ford calling the doctor.

716
00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:33.240
Grandfather.

717
00:30:33.299 --> 00:30:36.480
Yes, it was just a good newman, because he had to be just like a

718
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:37.680
Doctor Who fan, otherwise.

719
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:40.319
Because he's a Barbie doll when you take his pocket.

720
00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:42.539
We would lose audience identification.

721
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:48.539
But, and so they always sort of reconned or, you know, there was

722
00:30:48.539 --> 00:30:51.420
this sort of lack of, it was not comfortable.

723
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:53.940
I think Derek Saywood wrote a short story where she was actually

724
00:30:53.940 --> 00:30:55.920
lady Lan from the dark times.

725
00:30:55.980 --> 00:30:58.259
God, I hate 5 dogs.

726
00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:01.799
But and we weren't really flirting or anything like that.

727
00:31:01.859 --> 00:31:05.759
But you look at it in context and it's really terribly sweet and

728
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:07.440
Billy's quite smitten.

729
00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:09.299
It's still, it's just...

730
00:31:09.299 --> 00:31:12.299
It's too elderly people who have both clearly lost people they've

731
00:31:12.299 --> 00:31:12.660
cared about.

732
00:31:12.660 --> 00:31:16.319
Suddenly going, here is someone intelligent and worthy of me.

733
00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:19.319
And coming back to something you were saying, Richard, about the

734
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:23.039
strength of women in this season, when Kameka realises the doctor

735
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:26.339
is leaving and he won't be coming back, she doesn't cry.

736
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:30.000
She doesn't throw herself at his feet or, you know, all of the

737
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:32.880
female tropes that you would get in films around that time.

738
00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:37.980
She just turns, turns away and then turns back. and just says, just

739
00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:38.519
think of me.

740
00:31:38.579 --> 00:31:42.900
And walks off and goes back to her garden and...

741
00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:46.200
It's probably worth noting it at this point that we've just had

742
00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:49.019
this week, the passing of Maya Angelou.

743
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:49.380
Yes.

744
00:31:49.380 --> 00:31:55.740
The wonderful, glorious American writer and human rights activist

745
00:31:55.740 --> 00:32:01.740
who's whose words actually mirror this moment in that you own

746
00:32:01.740 --> 00:32:06.119
whatever pain, whatever grief, and you rise from it, and you take

747
00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:08.519
pride in whatever comes to you because it just makes you

748
00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:08.880
stronger.

749
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:10.140
Rise like a phoenix.

750
00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:10.740
You do.

751
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:13.559
She's really worth reading if you haven't read her.

752
00:32:13.619 --> 00:32:14.819
I love everything she says.

753
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:17.700
And it's poignant and powerful, and my goodness.

754
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:19.259
Strong black women.

755
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:19.799
It's one word.

756
00:32:19.859 --> 00:32:22.319
She really owns it.

757
00:32:22.380 --> 00:32:26.279
And those moments hashtag, those moments between Billy, and you're

758
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:29.279
right, and come back, some of my favourite in the whole series.

759
00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:31.380
So maybe I do like it.

760
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:32.759
I think you do it.

761
00:32:32.819 --> 00:32:36.000
That's all I've got from what you've saying is I actually would

762
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:37.259
like to know why you don't like it.

763
00:32:37.619 --> 00:32:38.819
Because I know that so much.

764
00:32:38.819 --> 00:32:40.799
Because it'd be better if it had a saltari in it.

765
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:43.799
It's got great.

766
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:45.119
It's got amazing drag.

767
00:32:45.180 --> 00:32:46.019
Is that okay?

768
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:46.920
All right.

769
00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:51.119
And just to close out, I will say, because I'm going to send this

770
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:51.720
link to him.

771
00:32:51.779 --> 00:32:55.740
I have spoken to Ian Cullen over the internet who played Exter.

772
00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:56.519
Golly gosh.

773
00:32:56.579 --> 00:32:59.880
And he is an absolutely lovely, lovely chap.

774
00:32:59.940 --> 00:33:03.000
He's actually, um, what happened was we were talk, I was talking

775
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:05.400
about the audios I do with Planet Scar of Audios.

776
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:07.259
And he said, gosh, they sound frightfully interesting.

777
00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:10.380
And we started talking about those and he said, look, you know, if

778
00:33:10.380 --> 00:33:12.299
I'm ever available, that might be rather fun.

779
00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:12.839
Wow.

780
00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:14.039
And so even...

781
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:14.460
He's in.

782
00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:15.240
Hello, you're in.

783
00:33:15.900 --> 00:33:18.059
Which one was extra again?

784
00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:19.740
The one fighting Ian.

785
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:20.940
Oh, the hotty.

786
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:21.839
Yes, the hottie.

787
00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:23.220
Oh, and actually...

788
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:24.660
That brings me to...

789
00:33:24.779 --> 00:33:26.819
That brings me to another one of Rod's comments.

790
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:27.839
Hello, Rod.

791
00:33:27.900 --> 00:33:31.799
Which comes from the scene where Ian sneaks out to go through the

792
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:34.740
tunnel and then next locks him in because of course they're both

793
00:33:34.740 --> 00:33:36.059
sleeping on the same floor.

794
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:40.680
And Rod's response was, God, why wasn't the camera here 10

795
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:41.099
minutes?

796
00:33:41.220 --> 00:33:46.920
Oh, and there's, I mean, can we just say that Rod thought that the

797
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:48.900
Daleks was homoerotic?

798
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:51.960
Well, was that...

799
00:33:52.019 --> 00:33:52.920
No, no, that was correct.

800
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:54.779
No, that was him.

801
00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:57.000
And I think hastily moving along.

802
00:33:57.059 --> 00:33:58.380
Oh, yes, there it is.

803
00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:00.960
It's time for the censor rights, Richard.

804
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:04.619
The censorites for how do we all feel about the centre rights?

805
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:08.280
Well, I feel that an analysis of the sense rights would benefit

806
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:12.539
enormously from detailed knowledge of architectural styles and

807
00:34:12.539 --> 00:34:13.679
German experience.

808
00:34:13.739 --> 00:34:18.780
And thankfully, the moment has been prepared for.

809
00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:22.800
And I know, I know it's not 18th century grammatically correct to

810
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:24.840
end with a...

811
00:34:24.900 --> 00:34:25.679
Thank you, boys.

812
00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:27.059
Let's preposition the preposition.

813
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:33.960
I bleep iTunes love this story on so many levels.

814
00:34:34.019 --> 00:34:37.619
I love the orange headed 5 foot 5 aliens in the gimp suits.

815
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:38.280
I love them.

816
00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:39.179
They are actually orange.

817
00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:40.980
Hello, darling. glad you're here.

818
00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:43.139
When are we going to hit the cosplay in the sense?

819
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:44.519
I really love this story.

820
00:34:44.579 --> 00:34:47.219
I love this story for all the reasons of my political narkiness

821
00:34:47.219 --> 00:34:48.539
that it ticks all the boxes.

822
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:51.599
I believe it is essentially post-colonial.

823
00:34:51.659 --> 00:34:55.320
It does throw up a whole lot of things that are going on at the

824
00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:55.619
time.

825
00:34:55.739 --> 00:34:58.619
It really references just why I love this whole 1st season of

826
00:34:58.619 --> 00:34:59.159
Doctor Who.

827
00:34:59.219 --> 00:35:00.840
And honestly, I started watching.

828
00:35:00.900 --> 00:35:03.900
Have we actually discussed this, gentlemen, when we 1st started

829
00:35:03.900 --> 00:35:06.539
watching Doctor Who, what was our 1st remembered story?

830
00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:09.179
Well, my 1st remembered story.

831
00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:13.139
Don't buy for this anyone over, so it was Rose.

832
00:35:14.460 --> 00:35:18.059
And, well, you must you must remember, I was born in a certain age

833
00:35:18.059 --> 00:35:19.800
when they were lost. lots of repeats.

834
00:35:19.860 --> 00:35:24.420
So my 1st remembered story is Carnival of Monsters.

835
00:35:24.420 --> 00:35:25.920
That's not a bad place to start.

836
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:29.639
Specifically the Cliffhanger to episode 3 where John Pertwee

837
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:31.619
stumbles out of the Minoscope collapses.

838
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:33.179
Oh, that's quite a good one.

839
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:35.639
My 1st one is on Death of the Daleks.

840
00:35:35.699 --> 00:35:37.860
That was on repeat as well.

841
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:39.119
That was repeat as well.

842
00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:44.340
But, um, but yeah, uh, season 11 is not a great place to start.

843
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:48.119
But I've got to say, as the original generation of viewers here, my

844
00:35:48.119 --> 00:35:53.219
1st live broadcast in Australia, pure memory is getting totally

845
00:35:53.219 --> 00:35:58.500
hooked on, Planet of the Spiders, and watching it from episode one

846
00:35:58.500 --> 00:36:02.579
to 6 as a child in primary school, so it was 1975.

847
00:36:02.699 --> 00:36:03.480
I think we got it out here.

848
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:09.000
Absolutely hooked, so mesmeric, John Durth, as the master we

849
00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:10.920
should have had after Delgado left.

850
00:36:10.980 --> 00:36:12.000
I think he's extraordinary.

851
00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:15.719
So much in that, plunder the spiders and the score and all the

852
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:19.199
rest, and we haven't actually had our Jenny Laird moment, this

853
00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:22.260
podcast, but we know, well, that will come up along with the

854
00:36:22.260 --> 00:36:22.800
recommendations.

855
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:24.719
Because we can only have one per season.

856
00:36:24.780 --> 00:36:27.719
So yeah, please stay listening because it just gets better.

857
00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:32.099
Just to segue from a, before we get back to the sensor rights, have

858
00:36:32.099 --> 00:36:34.559
you chaps seen that thing online at the moment, your Doctor Who

859
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:35.159
horoscope?

860
00:36:35.219 --> 00:36:37.440
You put in your date of birth and it tells you the nearest story

861
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:38.639
broadcast, your date of birth?

862
00:36:38.699 --> 00:36:39.659
I think on war games.

863
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:42.840
I would, I'm actually too, I think.

864
00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:43.920
Tomb of the Cyberman.

865
00:36:43.980 --> 00:36:44.880
Very happy to say that.

866
00:36:44.940 --> 00:36:45.900
I know.

867
00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:47.820
I thought you were a Hartnell baby.

868
00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:51.239
No, I... outrageous suggestion.

869
00:36:51.300 --> 00:36:53.460
No, I'm 67, so I think in the UK.

870
00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:57.900
But here in Australia, I think we were a season or two.

871
00:36:57.960 --> 00:36:59.699
We were a bit from Australia, yeah.

872
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:03.059
Well, fun, funnily enough, with...

873
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:07.860
With with fast tracking as it was then, about 6 months.

874
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:11.760
I whether you look at the UK or Australia, I'm actually the 5

875
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:12.480
doctors.

876
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:18.000
Although if you go with what was broadcast just before me, just a

877
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:22.739
week before my birthday, it's a repeat of Terror of the Zygons

878
00:37:22.739 --> 00:37:23.219
part one.

879
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:24.360
So either way, I'm in good company.

880
00:37:24.420 --> 00:37:28.380
No, I think 5 doctors counts, I remember 5 doctors vividly, for

881
00:37:28.380 --> 00:37:28.920
God's sake.

882
00:37:28.980 --> 00:37:30.360
You were in utero.

883
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:31.860
No, no, five.

884
00:37:31.860 --> 00:37:34.199
Recently emerged ex-U. I was 2 months old.

885
00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:35.579
Five doctors were a podcast.

886
00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:37.980
I think the 18th of December.

887
00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:38.760
Don't quote me.

888
00:37:38.820 --> 00:37:42.840
Anyone from my broad DW cast might be able to confirm that.

889
00:37:42.900 --> 00:37:43.800
Right?

890
00:37:43.860 --> 00:37:50.579
Well, I just want to throw that in, but I felt that if I...

891
00:37:50.579 --> 00:37:52.380
I need to know how old we are.

892
00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:58.500
Yeah, it's kind of hard to know us is to love us. as French Spiner

893
00:37:58.500 --> 00:37:58.980
would say.

894
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:00.599
Who's never in doctor?

895
00:38:00.659 --> 00:38:01.800
Okay, so what were you talking about?

896
00:38:01.860 --> 00:38:04.199
If I'd started watching in 63.

897
00:38:04.380 --> 00:38:06.000
I've got to say this is still 64.

898
00:38:06.179 --> 00:38:08.099
This is still probably my favourite season.

899
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:11.639
Just because it sets everything up and because it has such purity

900
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:13.920
of narrative and introspection.

901
00:38:13.980 --> 00:38:17.340
It's got some amazing people talking, working behind it.

902
00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:23.039
We talked to the 1st podcast if The story was not called an

903
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:23.699
earthly child.

904
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:26.460
I thought it had to be called a little queer simply because it is

905
00:38:26.460 --> 00:38:27.360
on so many levels.

906
00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:28.980
Susan is so odd.

907
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:33.960
Um, really uncomfortably odd, just like most teenage girls with a

908
00:38:33.960 --> 00:38:35.880
you know, introspective attitude.

909
00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:39.599
It was Julie Birchill, if anyone remembers NME, new musical

910
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:43.500
express, the paper for new music in the 80s when everything was

911
00:38:43.500 --> 00:38:45.480
good and great and lush and actually still dangerous.

912
00:38:45.539 --> 00:38:50.579
She said, famously, that if anyone, any one of you didn't spend

913
00:38:50.579 --> 00:38:54.360
their 13th summer school holidays locked in their bedroom

914
00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:56.280
listening to music and hating the world.

915
00:38:56.340 --> 00:38:57.539
I had nothing to say to you.

916
00:38:57.599 --> 00:38:59.099
Don't read my colon.

917
00:38:59.159 --> 00:39:01.019
I'm totally with her on that.

918
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:04.380
This is this is the season where we set everything up.

919
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:05.880
We examine everything that's fresh.

920
00:39:05.940 --> 00:39:06.539
It's new.

921
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:07.619
It's exciting.

922
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:10.980
And we're also pointing at the rest of the world around us and

923
00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:12.780
saying, what's not working out there.

924
00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:13.980
What's uncomfortable?

925
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:16.619
The sensor rights is doing everything like this for me.

926
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:22.380
Um, okay, politically, you kind of got the 2 levels of what's

927
00:39:22.380 --> 00:39:23.760
happening on outside.

928
00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:27.059
You've got political crises, as we mentioned earlier, with Mao's

929
00:39:27.059 --> 00:39:31.079
great leap forward in 58, that whole pogrom are totally against

930
00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:35.460
the people and taking the food and slaughtering between 50 and 70

931
00:39:35.460 --> 00:39:35.940
million.

932
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:39.420
Britain was just, with reportage being slower in those days and

933
00:39:39.420 --> 00:39:41.460
coming larger likely through print media.

934
00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:43.980
We were just starting to get to read about this.

935
00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:45.599
It was kind of threatening.

936
00:39:45.659 --> 00:39:49.079
We were also as part of an Australia very much part of the

937
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:49.739
Commonwealth.

938
00:39:49.860 --> 00:39:52.920
Very much still part of the British Empire.

939
00:39:52.980 --> 00:39:57.480
The Queen had only visited for Australian viewers 10 years before

940
00:39:57.480 --> 00:39:59.039
and it was still very much in our mind.

941
00:39:59.099 --> 00:40:02.039
Robert Lindsey's was still our prime minister.

942
00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:06.360
We were even we weren't perhaps as conservative as our current

943
00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:10.619
government would have us be now, but we were certainly very much

944
00:40:10.619 --> 00:40:12.599
of the past and of the empire.

945
00:40:12.659 --> 00:40:16.619
This is a story, the sensor rights, that looks at what it is to be

946
00:40:16.619 --> 00:40:20.219
a colonial empire and what it is to let go of it.

947
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:23.820
Why I really love this story is it's the 1st one to see, we

948
00:40:23.820 --> 00:40:25.380
mentioned post-colonialism before.

949
00:40:25.500 --> 00:40:28.320
The 1st one to see aliens as not other.

950
00:40:28.380 --> 00:40:32.880
But actually as people that come up 1st off as something strange

951
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:33.780
and unusual.

952
00:40:33.780 --> 00:40:36.960
And I love the way the 1st episode's filmed in that very

953
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:38.760
somnambulistic style.

954
00:40:38.820 --> 00:40:44.699
It feels like I'm that state of of being awake and being asleep

955
00:40:44.699 --> 00:40:47.820
like a David Lynch film, where I'm watching this thing.

956
00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:50.880
But it doesn't feel like it's in real time.

957
00:40:50.940 --> 00:40:52.019
It's so hazy.

958
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:55.980
It's so, it feels like not just the way it's shot and not just the

959
00:40:55.980 --> 00:40:59.219
lighting, but the way the actors behave, Maitland especially, the

960
00:40:59.219 --> 00:41:02.519
chief pilot has been criticised as being one of the worst actors

961
00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:03.420
in Doctor Who.

962
00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:07.559
I really love him because it's there's a sense of when they're

963
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:09.360
just waking up out of the soporific state.

964
00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:13.260
Have you seen Cabinet of Dr. Kalagari?

965
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:17.280
Yeah, it's Robert Avina, I believe it's pronounced, stop

966
00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:17.880
sniggering.

967
00:41:17.940 --> 00:41:22.559
Conrad Vice, amazing, amazing German expression of cinema, very

968
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:23.880
similar lighting, similar set.

969
00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:24.719
That is.

970
00:41:24.780 --> 00:41:27.960
Thank you, ding-a-ling-a-ling. everyone We've got it.

971
00:41:28.019 --> 00:41:28.800
We've got it.

972
00:41:29.099 --> 00:41:30.780
There's a lot of that around in Britain at the time.

973
00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:32.579
We'll move on, I promise. eventually.

974
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:35.099
Gorgeous set.

975
00:41:35.099 --> 00:41:37.019
I love that the...

976
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:40.019
I love that again, we're looking at our recent history and I love

977
00:41:40.019 --> 00:41:41.639
again, Reiku's success design.

978
00:41:41.699 --> 00:41:46.019
This isn't a quasi-futuristic, fabulous spaceship of all silvery

979
00:41:46.019 --> 00:41:48.599
George Powell, day the Earth stood still intent.

980
00:41:48.659 --> 00:41:50.880
This is a Lancaster Bomber.

981
00:41:50.940 --> 00:41:55.500
It's got bolt holes in, yes, circular, circular doorways, but it's

982
00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:59.699
a really mechanical functionary, ordinary ship.

983
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:01.139
There's nothing glamorous about it.

984
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:05.820
Even the uniforms, it's functional.

985
00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:09.659
What I love, what I love so much about it is that it's a zip up

986
00:42:09.659 --> 00:42:10.619
the back.

987
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:12.960
You can't, like, just like the sensory.

988
00:42:13.019 --> 00:42:13.739
Just like a mandrill.

989
00:42:13.860 --> 00:42:15.539
All those kind of lights themselves.

990
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:18.960
Just like start a generation. you kind of go, how do you reach?

991
00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:21.239
That's it. it every morning.

992
00:42:21.300 --> 00:42:22.440
Yeah, exactly.

993
00:42:22.500 --> 00:42:23.159
Not exactly.

994
00:42:23.219 --> 00:42:24.360
Oh, God, I'm Janet Fielding.

995
00:42:24.420 --> 00:42:25.679
I'm talking about clothes.

996
00:42:25.739 --> 00:42:27.539
I've never ever wondered that before.

997
00:42:27.659 --> 00:42:28.860
Years of Star Trek.

998
00:42:29.460 --> 00:42:31.320
Is it just me?

999
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:35.519
Or is it possible in episode one just to raise the intellectual

1000
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:35.880
tone?

1001
00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:40.079
Is it possible that you can see a censorite Willie through the

1002
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:41.579
costume?

1003
00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:46.739
Oh, the John Hamm meme of... of a budget?

1004
00:42:48.300 --> 00:42:50.219
Well, you know what they say about censor right's feet?

1005
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:51.000
Ah.

1006
00:42:51.059 --> 00:42:52.619
No, I'm sure that you can.

1007
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:55.500
There's like one shot where they, the sensor rights like walk

1008
00:42:55.500 --> 00:42:57.300
through the shot and they're sort of shot.

1009
00:42:57.360 --> 00:42:58.679
You shoot their car.

1010
00:42:58.679 --> 00:42:59.940
Oh, yeah, are you talking?

1011
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:00.840
No, it's true.

1012
00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:03.960
And I'm sure that I'm sure that they got more heavy duty

1013
00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:08.820
underpants for the later, like the later episodes, but there is a

1014
00:43:08.820 --> 00:43:10.860
definite, there is a definite willy.

1015
00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:12.960
So much to read into.

1016
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:15.480
As, as one says to an od.

1017
00:43:15.539 --> 00:43:18.179
Is that your translator or be you just happy to say?

1018
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:19.079
Hey, hooray.

1019
00:43:19.139 --> 00:43:21.900
What I also really like about this story and why it's really

1020
00:43:21.900 --> 00:43:25.980
important for me is that it's the problem of Susan is re-engaged.

1021
00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:29.760
This is the 1st story written by this extraordinary man, Peter

1022
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:37.619
Newman, and if you haven't seen the Doco, the lovely...

1023
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:40.500
Well, I love Toby Hado. everything he does.

1024
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:43.320
But the documentary is so poignant and so kind of sad.

1025
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:45.480
He didn't have a great life.

1026
00:43:45.539 --> 00:43:50.159
But the writer of this, apart from the fact that he'd gone through

1027
00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:53.400
the war and had this really peripatetic lifestyle of just, you

1028
00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:54.480
know, odd jobs.

1029
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:56.880
And I really wanted to break into theatre writing and TV writing

1030
00:43:56.880 --> 00:44:00.780
and this is his 1st kind of crack at TV, which starts off really

1031
00:44:00.780 --> 00:44:05.639
well and ends up really Agatha Christie 1955 in the later

1032
00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:06.239
episodes.

1033
00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:07.920
But for the 1st two, I really love it.

1034
00:44:07.980 --> 00:44:13.260
Um, and one of the things I really like about it is that he is the

1035
00:44:13.260 --> 00:44:16.619
1st writer to have seen the show going out and seeing what, not

1036
00:44:16.619 --> 00:44:18.360
just getting the note, the writer's notes.

1037
00:44:18.420 --> 00:44:19.619
This was scripted.

1038
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:22.679
Yeah, this was scripted after he'd seen the Daleks.

1039
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:25.619
So the 1st 2 stories had gone out.

1040
00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:30.539
So we're getting a much more interesting play on Billy on the

1041
00:44:30.539 --> 00:44:34.199
doctor's role and when we get later on to episode four, I'll talk

1042
00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:34.679
more about that.

1043
00:44:34.739 --> 00:44:38.159
But what I really like is that Susan is actually read as still

1044
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:39.119
being interesting.

1045
00:44:39.179 --> 00:44:43.079
Yeah, this is actually, I have to agree with that.

1046
00:44:43.139 --> 00:44:44.699
This might be Susan's best story.

1047
00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:50.460
And partly that's because, um, which is off for a week or two.

1048
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:52.860
No, no, it's hard.

1049
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:54.360
Barbara's off getting a lovely test.

1050
00:44:54.539 --> 00:44:57.659
Lovely sunray treatment on this.

1051
00:44:57.659 --> 00:45:00.480
Yeah, who knew that this really functional submarine of a

1052
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:02.340
spaceship had a tanning wheel?

1053
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:03.719
No, they actually would have to.

1054
00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:05.159
Vitamin D. Very true.

1055
00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:07.920
Relaxing, cheer. you're trying to justify it.

1056
00:45:07.980 --> 00:45:10.260
No, no, you would have to do that.

1057
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:10.860
It makes sense.

1058
00:45:10.860 --> 00:45:14.699
You would have to do it in diagetic terms. as well as Susan being

1059
00:45:14.699 --> 00:45:18.179
very well written in the story and having this psychic ability to

1060
00:45:18.179 --> 00:45:18.780
play on.

1061
00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:19.619
She's interesting.

1062
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:20.099
Yeah, yeah.

1063
00:45:20.579 --> 00:45:22.500
Well, you remember, you were talking about this last time.

1064
00:45:22.860 --> 00:45:25.320
The premise of her character is that she would have exotic

1065
00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:28.559
extraordinary clothes, not just the Vidalsis in haircut kids, but

1066
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:30.539
she'd also have telepathic abilities.

1067
00:45:30.539 --> 00:45:36.059
And, well, you know, not only that, but that then gives, because

1068
00:45:36.059 --> 00:45:39.119
you know, Ian has managed to save everyone by being strong and the

1069
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:41.099
doctors managed to save everyone by being intelligent.

1070
00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:43.380
Barbara's managed to save everyone by trying to bring culture to

1071
00:45:43.380 --> 00:45:44.099
the Aztecs.

1072
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:47.400
And finally, Susan is able to save everyone.

1073
00:45:47.460 --> 00:45:51.000
And the thing is, when Susan does it, she actually goes, not only

1074
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:53.639
am I going to save you, I'm going to make myself a hostage to save

1075
00:45:53.639 --> 00:45:57.179
you because that's the only way, which is amazingly brave.

1076
00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:00.840
And Carolan Ford really rises to the material because, you know

1077
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:05.159
you can tell, especially in Keys of Marinus and the Aztecs, she's

1078
00:46:05.159 --> 00:46:07.980
getting bored, which is understandable because she's been promised

1079
00:46:07.980 --> 00:46:09.119
this great part with nothing to do.

1080
00:46:09.179 --> 00:46:11.760
Suddenly the censor rights comes along, which is maybe not the

1081
00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:15.539
greatest story ever written, but she is given such wonderful

1082
00:46:15.539 --> 00:46:18.539
heroic, intelligent, interesting stuff to do.

1083
00:46:18.599 --> 00:46:20.760
And she just goes, I'm going to act my socks off.

1084
00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:24.179
Fortunately, though, next month, she'll be back to being a panicky

1085
00:46:24.179 --> 00:46:24.780
idiot.

1086
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:25.500
And you know why?

1087
00:46:25.559 --> 00:46:26.579
Billy.

1088
00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:27.960
And it's not actually Billy.

1089
00:46:28.019 --> 00:46:28.980
I should say the doctor.

1090
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:33.719
There's a really interesting structure here, but it's so good.

1091
00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:39.780
A young person achieving a voice finding her voice, finding her

1092
00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:42.300
role is cut down immediately.

1093
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:46.139
I've never seen that, until this point, the doctor being so angry

1094
00:46:46.139 --> 00:46:52.019
and so hostile. from this pendulum ridiculousness of, oh, we never

1095
00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:53.639
argue, speaking of his granddaughter.

1096
00:46:53.699 --> 00:46:55.860
He completely shuts her down when she says, I'm going to go to the

1097
00:46:55.860 --> 00:46:58.380
planet and I'm going to, actually, lead the narrative and I'm

1098
00:46:58.380 --> 00:46:59.280
going to actually sort this out.

1099
00:46:59.340 --> 00:47:01.500
You will not contradict me.

1100
00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:02.519
You're my granddaughter.

1101
00:47:02.579 --> 00:47:04.679
You're not, you know, you don't have adulthood.

1102
00:47:04.739 --> 00:47:05.400
You're a child.

1103
00:47:05.460 --> 00:47:09.179
You can really see that moment where Carol Anne Ford as well as

1104
00:47:09.179 --> 00:47:11.099
Susan says, I am so out of here.

1105
00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:13.380
This is just not.

1106
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:14.519
I've got no room to move.

1107
00:47:14.579 --> 00:47:16.139
I've got no room to be anything.

1108
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:18.900
I'm wearing Alice in Wonderland white socks.

1109
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:21.840
I'm having to stand here in a pinafore and take this grab.

1110
00:47:21.900 --> 00:47:23.820
She, you can really see.

1111
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:26.639
Is it episode 4 that wears Carol Anne 4?

1112
00:47:26.699 --> 00:47:28.739
you can see in their face thinking this is not going anywhere.

1113
00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:32.880
And it perfectly mirrors the situation between her grandfather and

1114
00:47:32.880 --> 00:47:37.500
the granddaughter is the power play, the polemics between the

1115
00:47:37.500 --> 00:47:38.280
elder.

1116
00:47:38.340 --> 00:47:40.139
It's lovely that the parents in this.

1117
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:42.900
This is why, I think this has such electricity this season.

1118
00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:46.619
The parents are dissociated and adopted, and it's actually the

1119
00:47:46.619 --> 00:47:50.159
grandfather and the granddaughter who have had to adopt parental

1120
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:52.380
models into their family unit.

1121
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:55.980
And Ian and Barbara are constantly, sort of, Susan's talking to

1122
00:47:55.980 --> 00:47:58.199
them and saying grandfather's being very difficult and they're

1123
00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:00.059
saying, Susan, okay, we'll have a word with him.

1124
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:00.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1125
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:02.519
They're the moderator.

1126
00:48:02.579 --> 00:48:04.920
Yeah, they are. the parents that the family unit didn't have.

1127
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:08.219
And the grandfather being curmudgeonly and brilliant and having

1128
00:48:08.219 --> 00:48:12.179
all the power because he's got the keys to Nani's wardrobe says, no

1129
00:48:12.179 --> 00:48:15.119
no, that's I will rewrite the scene at every moment.

1130
00:48:15.179 --> 00:48:18.719
What is so lovely about this story is the 1st time in episode four

1131
00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:21.599
we get the doctor actually acting as the doctor.

1132
00:48:21.659 --> 00:48:24.000
That's what I meant before when I said it's interesting that we've

1133
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:26.519
got the 1st script that doesn't just come from liner notes.

1134
00:48:26.579 --> 00:48:30.900
Peter Newman says, the doctor will stay on the planet after he

1135
00:48:30.900 --> 00:48:34.440
solved the water crisis after the cultures, you know, after the

1136
00:48:34.440 --> 00:48:37.679
story plot has been resolved, simply to assist the narrative and

1137
00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:38.579
be a good person.

1138
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:39.360
Yeah.

1139
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:43.380
But at the same time, the only way he can achieve that is by

1140
00:48:43.380 --> 00:48:46.980
completely denigrating the Susan character to the point that she

1141
00:48:46.980 --> 00:48:48.360
has nowhere to go anymore.

1142
00:48:48.420 --> 00:48:50.699
She grows and then she's bonsai.

1143
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:54.780
And even in the last scene, she says, oh, grandfather, I can't use

1144
00:48:54.780 --> 00:48:55.619
telepathy anymore.

1145
00:48:55.679 --> 00:48:58.199
Oh, no, darling, that's just the influence of the planet.

1146
00:48:58.260 --> 00:48:59.460
And I was like, why?

1147
00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:00.360
Why?

1148
00:49:00.420 --> 00:49:02.519
Because screw you, you're not going to get in charge.

1149
00:49:02.579 --> 00:49:06.780
This is why I hate 5 doctors because this is after so many years.

1150
00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:07.920
She's back.

1151
00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:13.260
She's the, she's the vestigial force of this narrative to start

1152
00:49:13.260 --> 00:49:13.679
off with.

1153
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:17.280
She stands in the TARDIS and looking pleadingly at Peter for

1154
00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:17.699
recognition.

1155
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:18.300
Yeah, yeah.

1156
00:49:18.300 --> 00:49:21.000
And Peter Davidson completely ignores her.

1157
00:49:21.059 --> 00:49:24.599
I hated that in 1983 and I still hated that.

1158
00:49:24.659 --> 00:49:26.340
It's terrible. and it's what we said before.

1159
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:30.059
But it is, it is that thing where they wanted to, they wanted to

1160
00:49:30.059 --> 00:49:31.860
airbrush over that, Grant.

1161
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:33.539
Yeah, because that was JNT.

1162
00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:34.019
Yeah, yeah.

1163
00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:37.860
And it didn't fit into our neat, you know, list of 38 companions.

1164
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:39.599
Yeah, whatever.

1165
00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:42.059
Anyway, um, Yeah, yeah.

1166
00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:46.199
So I think like that's a great lost opportunity. will never ever

1167
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:46.739
happen now.

1168
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:49.320
Can you imagine Russell T. Davies reuniting Susan and the doctor

1169
00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:50.280
and not having it done?

1170
00:49:50.340 --> 00:49:52.679
This is why I'm so grateful to Russell.

1171
00:49:52.739 --> 00:49:56.219
Well, Susan, when she turns up in the Paul McGann audios, it's a

1172
00:49:56.219 --> 00:49:57.239
brilliant dynamic.

1173
00:49:57.300 --> 00:50:00.300
Can we we'll name those at the end as our choices because yes, I

1174
00:50:00.300 --> 00:50:00.840
was going to say that.

1175
00:50:00.900 --> 00:50:01.920
I love these ones.

1176
00:50:01.980 --> 00:50:03.119
Oh, okay.

1177
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:05.519
But yeah, there's this great tension between the fact that, you

1178
00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:09.900
know, she, Susan is now in her 60s or 70s and the doctor is in his

1179
00:50:09.900 --> 00:50:10.440
30s.

1180
00:50:10.500 --> 00:50:13.679
Yes, and he's a grandson now.

1181
00:50:13.739 --> 00:50:14.699
Paul Mcann wishes.

1182
00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:16.320
She's still she's still called...

1183
00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:17.699
Yeah, she still calls him grandpa.

1184
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:19.380
I won't go too much into that because...

1185
00:50:19.380 --> 00:50:20.519
But we'll put it up.

1186
00:50:21.420 --> 00:50:23.340
There's almost certainly a Santarian in it at some point.

1187
00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:24.179
At some point.

1188
00:50:24.300 --> 00:50:25.380
There is actually a monster.

1189
00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:26.280
Oh, okay, yes.

1190
00:50:26.340 --> 00:50:28.860
Anyway, back to...

1191
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:32.039
So I think I actually really like this one.

1192
00:50:32.099 --> 00:50:33.179
Do you know what I mean?

1193
00:50:33.239 --> 00:50:36.179
I've probably expressed for 12 different contradictory opinions

1194
00:50:36.179 --> 00:50:38.039
about it over the course of the podcast already.

1195
00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:39.900
But I did sort of quite enjoy it.

1196
00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:45.179
And it is partly because, you know, at this point it's all sort of

1197
00:50:45.179 --> 00:50:50.519
something new and it is because the fake out, you know, like

1198
00:50:50.519 --> 00:50:55.739
episode one sets up the, um, sense rights as sort of, uh, you know

1199
00:50:55.739 --> 00:51:00.239
terrible scary monsters, but then it turns out that they're the

1200
00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:00.960
good guys.

1201
00:51:01.019 --> 00:51:03.119
And so you've actually been. yeah they're really quite

1202
00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:03.840
vulnerable.

1203
00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:06.000
And all of that's quite good.

1204
00:51:06.059 --> 00:51:09.780
And the fact that it, you know, has a planet and a sort of social

1205
00:51:09.780 --> 00:51:13.380
structure and stuff and people wear lovely sashes so they can tell

1206
00:51:13.380 --> 00:51:14.460
each other apart.

1207
00:51:14.460 --> 00:51:17.039
Pretty denuded social structure, though.

1208
00:51:17.099 --> 00:51:19.860
They don't even have names and it just seems to be one city.

1209
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:21.119
Yeah, yeah. that's, I mean, that's.

1210
00:51:21.300 --> 00:51:26.519
It's the 1st time I can think of, that a culture, an alien culture

1211
00:51:26.519 --> 00:51:29.340
has been attempted to be described on television at the course of

1212
00:51:29.340 --> 00:51:29.820
a serial.

1213
00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:33.300
So, you know, they, they don't get everything right, but they get

1214
00:51:33.300 --> 00:51:36.239
this idea that they've got their own hierarchy, their own value

1215
00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:36.840
structure.

1216
00:51:36.900 --> 00:51:37.920
Yeah.

1217
00:51:37.980 --> 00:51:41.340
Okay, so they don't have names, but maybe they don't have names.

1218
00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:45.599
I also quite like just that we get to spend a bit of time with

1219
00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:47.159
them. you know what I mean?

1220
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:49.019
Like it's a bit more leisurely.

1221
00:51:49.019 --> 00:51:50.280
I do like the drawn out note.

1222
00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:53.760
And the real plot really doesn't kick out until episode six.

1223
00:51:53.820 --> 00:51:57.119
Like, I don't think those soldier guys, even a few.

1224
00:51:57.239 --> 00:51:58.260
I found that very strange.

1225
00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:00.840
That, you know, you get this reference of, 0 no, these people

1226
00:52:00.840 --> 00:52:01.320
don't out.

1227
00:52:01.380 --> 00:52:02.579
These people died out these...

1228
00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:05.159
And so you think, okay, they poison the water supply and then they

1229
00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:05.460
die.

1230
00:52:05.579 --> 00:52:06.599
And now they're here.

1231
00:52:06.659 --> 00:52:07.199
No, they're here.

1232
00:52:07.260 --> 00:52:07.800
They're in a cave.

1233
00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:08.579
But that's okay.

1234
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:11.940
We get some villains and stuff and some drama at the end.

1235
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:16.139
And some lovely post-colonial nods to, you know, Britain is losing

1236
00:52:16.139 --> 00:52:20.880
their empire and this is how we now view our role in that, hiding

1237
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:21.179
you know.

1238
00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:24.420
Not only that, but of course, Peter on Newman based those

1239
00:52:24.420 --> 00:52:27.900
characters who had been in the caves for so long, they've gone mad

1240
00:52:27.900 --> 00:52:31.559
on prisoners of war because he was a prisoner of war.

1241
00:52:31.619 --> 00:52:36.659
And it was such a pity because that little sort of 5 minute scene

1242
00:52:36.659 --> 00:52:37.800
that those characters have.

1243
00:52:37.860 --> 00:52:39.239
I thought that's really interesting.

1244
00:52:39.300 --> 00:52:42.239
I would have liked to see more of these characters in the episodes

1245
00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:43.500
like just in the background.

1246
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:46.380
I would have liked to see them poisoning the water supply and

1247
00:52:46.380 --> 00:52:47.099
discussing what they were doing.

1248
00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:48.780
Then you wouldn't get the reveal.

1249
00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:51.179
Yeah, no, I think the reveal's fun, and I think the fact that they

1250
00:52:51.179 --> 00:52:54.239
wind it all up in an episode is actually sort of pretty good.

1251
00:52:54.300 --> 00:52:55.320
It's very atypical.

1252
00:52:55.380 --> 00:52:56.340
I'll get it that.

1253
00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:58.199
But there's nothing to be atypical of.

1254
00:52:58.260 --> 00:52:58.440
Yeah.

1255
00:52:58.500 --> 00:52:59.159
Do you know what I mean?

1256
00:52:59.219 --> 00:53:00.179
1st one.

1257
00:53:00.179 --> 00:53:00.480
Exactly.

1258
00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:01.800
The science fiction story.

1259
00:53:01.860 --> 00:53:04.440
And it's the 1st one that sets up all the stuff. the 1st time

1260
00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:07.260
we're inside a spaceship other than the TARDIS.

1261
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:10.500
It's the 1st one that has that purely technical thing of walking

1262
00:53:10.500 --> 00:53:13.559
from the tide set into the spaceship, which I don't remember

1263
00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:16.380
happening again to, okay, maybe colony in space, but I don't

1264
00:53:16.380 --> 00:53:19.800
remember happening again till that moment with Liz Sladin and Tom

1265
00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:20.820
in Pyramid of Mars.

1266
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:22.019
And I can tell you as a little boy.

1267
00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:25.260
That blew my head sideways. was so exciting.

1268
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:28.739
I think the landing on a spaceship, I remember thinking that was

1269
00:53:28.739 --> 00:53:29.880
really terrific.

1270
00:53:29.940 --> 00:53:30.539
We can do that.

1271
00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:31.619
We can land out beautiful.

1272
00:53:31.679 --> 00:53:32.639
Exactly.

1273
00:53:32.699 --> 00:53:34.920
And it was just as exciting for the audience at the time.

1274
00:53:34.980 --> 00:53:36.179
We didn't know the Titus could do that.

1275
00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:36.960
Yeah, yeah.

1276
00:53:37.019 --> 00:53:38.639
Yeah, no, that is pretty good.

1277
00:53:38.699 --> 00:53:39.900
Love it, love it, love it.

1278
00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:41.699
I score?

1279
00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:46.199
I give it for the things that it does, if not the way it does it, 9

1280
00:53:46.199 --> 00:53:46.559
out of 10.

1281
00:53:46.739 --> 00:53:48.000
Okay.

1282
00:53:48.059 --> 00:53:49.320
Interesting.

1283
00:53:49.380 --> 00:53:54.239
Because you see, I find that, like you say, Richard, it's got some

1284
00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:54.960
very interesting ideas.

1285
00:53:55.019 --> 00:54:00.360
It doesn't necessarily execute them that well, but where in the

1286
00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:03.960
Daleks you've got, what is a science fiction trope?

1287
00:54:04.019 --> 00:54:09.059
introduced in things like the time machine with the Morlocks and

1288
00:54:09.059 --> 00:54:14.219
the Eloi as the Daleks and the Thals, and where in keys of

1289
00:54:14.219 --> 00:54:20.760
marinace, you had sort of stock standard 1940s serial locations.

1290
00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:24.480
Here, you do have traditional science fiction ideas.

1291
00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:27.420
You got the Earth spaceship, you've got the psychic aliens, but it

1292
00:54:27.420 --> 00:54:28.380
does turn it on its head.

1293
00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:32.280
And for that, it really does have to be commended, and it's such a

1294
00:54:32.280 --> 00:54:34.139
shame that Peter R.

1295
00:54:34.139 --> 00:54:37.380
Newman didn't get to write either more doctor or more film in

1296
00:54:37.380 --> 00:54:37.679
general.

1297
00:54:37.739 --> 00:54:38.519
I think he did.

1298
00:54:38.579 --> 00:54:43.260
I think he did a couple of hammer films, but then didn't write for

1299
00:54:43.260 --> 00:54:44.099
one reason or another.

1300
00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:47.760
And he's he's got a very good grip on character.

1301
00:54:47.820 --> 00:54:51.179
He's got a very good grip on turning cliches on their head.

1302
00:54:51.239 --> 00:54:57.000
Not necessarily a great grip on narrative, but with those two, And

1303
00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:58.860
given more time, he could have done some really interesting

1304
00:54:58.860 --> 00:54:59.340
stuff.

1305
00:54:59.400 --> 00:55:03.000
I think it's a real shame that we don't have more of him either in

1306
00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:05.340
Doctor Who or in anything else.

1307
00:55:05.460 --> 00:55:10.199
In fact, it is, you know, like Richard expressed scepticism that

1308
00:55:10.199 --> 00:55:12.900
keys of marinas were science fiction at all.

1309
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:15.360
And there's a sense in which that's right.

1310
00:55:15.420 --> 00:55:18.480
Whereas this is sort of undeniably science fiction in that sort of

1311
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:20.400
playing with ideas thing.

1312
00:55:20.460 --> 00:55:25.860
You know, it's not just people being menaced by monsters, uh, which

1313
00:55:25.860 --> 00:55:27.420
is what the show essentially becomes.

1314
00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:32.579
Um, Spoiler alert, some of us look for.

1315
00:55:32.579 --> 00:55:37.260
But it is a proper science fiction thing with an A. It really is.

1316
00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:42.420
Manchurian candidate is a film that came out in 1963 by the

1317
00:55:42.420 --> 00:55:49.139
extraordinary, violent, and outwardly queer John Frankenheimer.

1318
00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:53.400
He's actually the, he was the Douglas Campfield in a frock of

1319
00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:54.960
mainline cinema.

1320
00:55:55.019 --> 00:55:58.800
He had all of the army intention and the uh, ebullience and the

1321
00:55:58.800 --> 00:56:02.639
bullishness of Dougie Canfield, but really outwardly openly

1322
00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:03.000
queer.

1323
00:56:03.059 --> 00:56:06.480
It was kind of a rare thing in those days, but really strongly

1324
00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:06.780
so.

1325
00:56:06.840 --> 00:56:12.960
Um, Yeah, he's, he's filamentarian candidate with Lawrence Harvey

1326
00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:17.219
Angela Lansbury, Frank Sinatra, interestingly enough, was a film

1327
00:56:17.219 --> 00:56:22.679
about mind control, and that had been revealed that the Chinese

1328
00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:26.880
were doing with spies in their own concentration camps, the spies

1329
00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:29.519
that they had captured, they were brainwashing and sending them

1330
00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:30.599
back to the West.

1331
00:56:30.659 --> 00:56:34.440
Film didn't actually get full release at the time, although it was

1332
00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:37.739
shown in Britain. shown for a short time, not full release in the

1333
00:56:37.739 --> 00:56:39.300
US because it was so political.

1334
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:45.179
Um, it's, It's nicely suggested in this, and you're kind of

1335
00:56:45.179 --> 00:56:47.639
wondering where all of this stuff with the telepathy is coming

1336
00:56:47.639 --> 00:56:47.940
from.

1337
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:49.559
I believe that's on the strong parts of it.

1338
00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:53.639
It also has one of the greatest billy fluffs that's generally

1339
00:56:53.639 --> 00:56:55.079
ignored of this season.

1340
00:56:55.079 --> 00:57:00.300
When he calls out, stabilises Matron, the same time rather than

1341
00:57:00.300 --> 00:57:01.320
Maitland.

1342
00:57:01.380 --> 00:57:05.099
I'm firmly convinced that they were, which I think is the 28th

1343
00:57:05.099 --> 00:57:07.739
season equivalent of quickness screens.

1344
00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:11.099
We have a lovely nod to carry on in that one moment.

1345
00:57:12.119 --> 00:57:13.619
All right.

1346
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:15.539
Just before noise.

1347
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:18.780
Well, just before we move on, I just want to praise Stephen

1348
00:57:18.780 --> 00:57:20.159
Dartnell's performances, John.

1349
00:57:20.219 --> 00:57:21.239
Yeah, it's great.

1350
00:57:21.300 --> 00:57:24.719
He's like a primordial David Tennant, really, isn't he?

1351
00:57:24.780 --> 00:57:25.920
Yeah, well, and...

1352
00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:26.820
In a billywig, yeah.

1353
00:57:26.940 --> 00:57:30.239
It's kind of the thing of, you know, his madman, you can't really

1354
00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:33.059
appreciate his madman performance until the later episodes when

1355
00:57:33.059 --> 00:57:33.659
he's restored.

1356
00:57:33.659 --> 00:57:38.460
And he is so sort of straight down the line, really a matinee idol

1357
00:57:38.460 --> 00:57:39.119
kind of voice.

1358
00:57:39.960 --> 00:57:43.139
And then you look back and when he's sort of clutching at Susan's

1359
00:57:43.139 --> 00:57:45.420
leg and saying, no, I won't hurt them.

1360
00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:46.079
They're my friends.

1361
00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:48.300
You go, actually, that's really good.

1362
00:57:48.420 --> 00:57:49.800
Yeah, really.

1363
00:57:49.860 --> 00:57:51.239
And he was Yante.

1364
00:57:51.300 --> 00:57:53.159
He was the art tech leader of the alien board.

1365
00:57:53.219 --> 00:57:54.480
He's got a range.

1366
00:57:54.539 --> 00:57:55.440
Yes.

1367
00:57:55.500 --> 00:57:58.559
From good to leader of the alien board?

1368
00:57:58.619 --> 00:57:58.800
Yep.

1369
00:57:59.219 --> 00:58:03.000
The only observation I have from Rod on this story.

1370
00:58:03.059 --> 00:58:05.219
Here we go. is kind of erotic.

1371
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:05.940
No, no.

1372
00:58:05.940 --> 00:58:07.440
There was a wheelie in episode one.

1373
00:58:07.500 --> 00:58:09.420
No, no, but he does wonder...

1374
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:12.239
Sorry.

1375
00:58:12.900 --> 00:58:18.539
He does wonder that why after the doctor says, you know, they're

1376
00:58:18.539 --> 00:58:19.619
very sensitive to loud noise.

1377
00:58:19.679 --> 00:58:22.440
It's like, no, no, stay back, stay back, stay back.

1378
00:58:22.500 --> 00:58:24.000
Why doesn't anyone just scream?

1379
00:58:24.780 --> 00:58:26.820
Oh, yeah, interesting.

1380
00:58:27.300 --> 00:58:29.460
Oh, since rights are about to attack me.

1381
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:30.420
I'll just scream.

1382
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:33.480
I'll shout, I'll shout obscenities out there.

1383
00:58:33.539 --> 00:58:34.199
But they didn't know that.

1384
00:58:34.260 --> 00:58:36.239
Well, no, Billy says that they do.

1385
00:58:36.300 --> 00:58:39.599
Yeah, but not when they were 1st anyway. not when they 1st came.

1386
00:58:39.659 --> 00:58:42.059
But that's that's his witty observation.

1387
00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:43.920
Okay, so, ah, right.

1388
00:58:43.980 --> 00:58:44.400
There we are.

1389
00:58:47.460 --> 00:58:49.079
Gosh, we're at the end of the season.

1390
00:58:49.139 --> 00:58:50.280
All right.

1391
00:58:50.340 --> 00:58:52.920
And it seems not a moment too soon.

1392
00:58:52.980 --> 00:58:59.159
So we're now moving into the reign of terror. which for trivia

1393
00:58:59.159 --> 00:59:00.539
fans out there.

1394
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:04.440
Like Marco Polo, has missing episodes, but whereas Marco Polo has

1395
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:08.519
all its episodes missing, Reign of Terror only has episodes 4 and

1396
00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:09.000
5 missing.

1397
00:59:09.059 --> 00:59:10.440
Yes, it is, yes.

1398
00:59:10.500 --> 00:59:11.760
And they're animated.

1399
00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:17.219
Yes, they are animated by an Australian animation studio called, I

1400
00:59:17.219 --> 00:59:18.659
believe they're called Theta Sigma.

1401
00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:20.099
The reign.

1402
00:59:20.099 --> 00:59:21.239
The reign of terror.

1403
00:59:21.300 --> 00:59:23.579
How do we all feel about this?

1404
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:25.139
Well, it's just terrible, is it?

1405
00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:27.059
There's no monsters.

1406
00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:28.199
There's not the same.

1407
00:59:28.260 --> 00:59:29.639
Do you know what I mean?

1408
00:59:29.699 --> 00:59:35.340
If there had been a varden kind of yerking in there in that cell.

1409
00:59:35.400 --> 00:59:39.539
And then, you know, like it's like le conciergerie.

1410
00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:40.860
And then there's another room.

1411
00:59:40.920 --> 00:59:45.539
Like the entire last 4 episodes are just in these 2 rooms, it's

1412
00:59:45.539 --> 00:59:47.639
really just sort of terribly tiresome.

1413
00:59:47.699 --> 00:59:51.119
The 1st episode sort of quite entertaining, although I don't know

1414
00:59:51.119 --> 00:59:54.599
why suddenly, you know, after all, again, I think this is the

1415
00:59:54.599 --> 00:59:57.539
sound of a thing, but we had all that hard one characterisation in

1416
00:59:57.539 --> 01:00:00.420
earlier on in the season and now he's just going to turf them off

1417
01:00:00.420 --> 01:00:01.199
his ship.

1418
01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:06.059
Because Ian made an offhand remark about, oh, do you know where

1419
01:00:06.059 --> 01:00:06.539
we're going?

1420
01:00:06.599 --> 01:00:09.179
Well, I don't know where we're going, but I'm not going to tell

1421
01:00:09.179 --> 01:00:10.260
you I don't know where we're going.

1422
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:11.880
In fact, wherever we're going, you're going there.

1423
01:00:11.940 --> 01:00:13.199
And that's exactly it.

1424
01:00:13.260 --> 01:00:14.159
Billy says, that's it.

1425
01:00:14.219 --> 01:00:17.460
You're off the ship. makes no sense. other than for the need to

1426
01:00:17.460 --> 01:00:18.360
have a cliffhanger.

1427
01:00:18.420 --> 01:00:19.380
Yeah, it is.

1428
01:00:19.440 --> 01:00:23.880
It's the need to have a cliffhanger. you know, and it creates, and

1429
01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:26.340
they sort of throw it away pretty early on in episode one.

1430
01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:28.199
And ever since quite, episode one's quite...

1431
01:00:28.260 --> 01:00:28.980
Not too quickly, yeah.

1432
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:29.940
I like episode.

1433
01:00:30.059 --> 01:00:33.239
Especially the cliffhanger, when they pan from the fire to the

1434
01:00:33.239 --> 01:00:34.079
Black Knight sky.

1435
01:00:34.139 --> 01:00:37.139
And you just go, my god, the doctor's going to burn to death.

1436
01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:40.199
And then it's like, no, wait, a boy half his science has dragged

1437
01:00:40.199 --> 01:00:40.739
him out of the fire.

1438
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:41.219
It's okay.

1439
01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:43.320
But that's a quite expensive looking thing.

1440
01:00:43.380 --> 01:00:45.719
Like there's a model and there's some stock footage and stuff

1441
01:00:45.780 --> 01:00:46.440
looks really good.

1442
01:00:46.500 --> 01:00:50.460
And then and then we get the famous, you know, 1st uh, actual

1443
01:00:50.460 --> 01:00:55.800
location footage, uh, which we've never had before, which is...

1444
01:00:55.860 --> 01:00:57.300
It's Ryan Proud.

1445
01:00:57.360 --> 01:00:58.679
It's quote unquote, Billy.

1446
01:00:58.739 --> 01:01:02.280
It's a robot replica.

1447
01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:03.840
It's by the Dalek.

1448
01:01:03.900 --> 01:01:04.739
Spoiler alert.

1449
01:01:05.159 --> 01:01:09.780
And and you know, like maybe that scene with the guy who's digging

1450
01:01:09.780 --> 01:01:11.639
the road is sort of reasonably entertaining.

1451
01:01:11.699 --> 01:01:13.980
Although, like, why is he not in the plot for so long?

1452
01:01:14.039 --> 01:01:15.059
I don't really understand it.

1453
01:01:15.119 --> 01:01:18.119
And then just the rest of it is them just all going in and out of

1454
01:01:18.119 --> 01:01:20.760
prison, which is all just sort of kind of around.

1455
01:01:21.239 --> 01:01:27.000
And I think, again, the only thing that I think is fun is, Because

1456
01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:32.760
you know, again, like the Aztecs, we've kind of got a comic book

1457
01:01:32.760 --> 01:01:34.139
version of history.

1458
01:01:34.199 --> 01:01:37.199
And so, you know, naturally the aristocrats are good guys because

1459
01:01:37.199 --> 01:01:39.599
the revolutionaries are killing people.

1460
01:01:39.659 --> 01:01:41.400
Do you know what I mean?

1461
01:01:41.460 --> 01:01:45.539
Like there's this sort of reactionary, crummy politics to it, which

1462
01:01:45.539 --> 01:01:49.260
Barbara then stands up and addresses and she tells them all off

1463
01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:51.900
and says, you know, that's not what it's like. these people.

1464
01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:54.840
I mean, you know, and the actual narrative doesn't do any of

1465
01:01:54.840 --> 01:01:55.079
that.

1466
01:01:55.139 --> 01:01:57.539
The narrative is sort of fairly reactionary, but at least within

1467
01:01:57.539 --> 01:02:02.340
within the narrative, Barbara stands up and tells it like it is

1468
01:02:02.340 --> 01:02:03.599
and she's fantastic.

1469
01:02:03.659 --> 01:02:05.159
You know, that's a great moment.

1470
01:02:05.219 --> 01:02:07.619
But the rest of it's all really exhausting.

1471
01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:11.159
And Carol Anne continues to degenerate horribly.

1472
01:02:11.219 --> 01:02:14.159
She's Paul, terribly yeah, treated a Paul.

1473
01:02:14.219 --> 01:02:18.000
I mean, and this is why this, I think, story is interesting, but

1474
01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:21.420
only to observe not to actually be involved with as a viewer. to

1475
01:02:21.420 --> 01:02:22.199
know the backstory.

1476
01:02:22.260 --> 01:02:24.119
It's the historical we had to have.

1477
01:02:24.179 --> 01:02:26.280
It's the most obvious thing to do.

1478
01:02:26.340 --> 01:02:30.059
We forget that I kind of benefitted from this, but doing history

1479
01:02:30.059 --> 01:02:34.139
at school, French Revolution is still something that was taught

1480
01:02:34.139 --> 01:02:36.719
and that school children knew a lot about.

1481
01:02:36.780 --> 01:02:39.480
That was kind of like there was.

1482
01:02:39.539 --> 01:02:41.400
There was that book on the card, but it was one of the, it was one

1483
01:02:41.400 --> 01:02:44.340
of the last, kind of the last generation where we were taught

1484
01:02:44.340 --> 01:02:46.800
about this in schools, both here and in Britain.

1485
01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:52.079
It's also the one where the stuff going on behind the scenes was a

1486
01:02:52.079 --> 01:02:54.780
hell of a lot more exciting and interesting and dangerous and the

1487
01:02:54.780 --> 01:02:56.699
stuff that was happening on screen.

1488
01:02:56.760 --> 01:03:01.139
We had, we had a director, um, Henrik Hirsch, Heinrich Hirsch, who

1489
01:03:01.139 --> 01:03:05.639
was kind of a great leap forward and verity was being, we forget

1490
01:03:05.639 --> 01:03:09.000
how experimental she was, perhaps we forget how experimental she

1491
01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:11.699
was being in this season. and taking a director who'd only done

1492
01:03:11.699 --> 01:03:15.239
one other thing she'd seen, a political historical piece.

1493
01:03:15.300 --> 01:03:20.280
He'd escaped from Native Hungary in 56 in the Revolution.

1494
01:03:20.340 --> 01:03:24.480
He was greatly troubled by this and had a was already known to

1495
01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:25.679
have a nervous temperament.

1496
01:03:25.739 --> 01:03:29.519
The same director who passed out in episode, the filming of

1497
01:03:29.519 --> 01:03:31.920
episode 3 or 4 and Pinfield took over.

1498
01:03:33.119 --> 01:03:33.480
After that.

1499
01:03:33.539 --> 01:03:38.940
He was so antagonistic that Carol Anne Ford was apparently yelling

1500
01:03:38.940 --> 01:03:42.840
to, well, not yelling, but just saying to the to the powers that

1501
01:03:42.840 --> 01:03:44.219
be that I am so out of here.

1502
01:03:44.280 --> 01:03:47.519
And it was because of this story and because of this director

1503
01:03:47.519 --> 01:03:51.000
there's that famous thing that she's always been put down for the

1504
01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:52.619
way she was behaving in the cells.

1505
01:03:52.679 --> 01:03:56.280
Oh, no, the rats and being, you know, pretty much received as

1506
01:03:56.280 --> 01:03:57.539
being entirely pathetic in this.

1507
01:03:57.599 --> 01:04:00.059
Yeah, it's like, I'm going to get my head dropped off.

1508
01:04:00.119 --> 01:04:01.619
Oh, no, I can't face any rats, yeah.

1509
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:02.880
Well, it's the best point.

1510
01:04:02.940 --> 01:04:05.639
Well, she was also and they weren't given direction.

1511
01:04:05.699 --> 01:04:09.179
He was apparently not the kind of director that he was just

1512
01:04:09.179 --> 01:04:09.840
finding his feet.

1513
01:04:09.900 --> 01:04:12.059
He was finding it really technically difficult to understand how

1514
01:04:12.059 --> 01:04:12.780
the cameras work.

1515
01:04:12.840 --> 01:04:17.760
He said, and you got this note that why must you be so maudlin?

1516
01:04:17.820 --> 01:04:21.000
Yeah, he was Hungarian and he'd say, he'd seen a revolution.

1517
01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:22.019
It escaped in 56.

1518
01:04:22.199 --> 01:04:23.460
You think he would have been sympathetic?

1519
01:04:23.760 --> 01:04:26.940
She's standing there and she's sending notes back.

1520
01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:30.480
I'm in a sewer like cell.

1521
01:04:30.539 --> 01:04:31.980
I've got surrounded.

1522
01:04:32.039 --> 01:04:32.880
I'm really ill.

1523
01:04:32.940 --> 01:04:34.079
I'm surrounded by rats.

1524
01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:35.760
And I'm going to be decapitated.

1525
01:04:35.880 --> 01:04:36.900
Exactly.

1526
01:04:36.960 --> 01:04:39.420
I'm feeling a little maudlin right now.

1527
01:04:41.099 --> 01:04:46.019
It's as if Judith Lucy was personally narrative way back then.

1528
01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:48.719
Oh my god, can you imagine Judith Lucy and Susan?

1529
01:04:48.780 --> 01:04:51.599
think we'd have an entirely different show.

1530
01:04:51.659 --> 01:04:54.360
Well, Judith losing a tough car is dead.

1531
01:04:54.420 --> 01:04:55.920
Oh, yeah.

1532
01:04:55.980 --> 01:04:57.900
Well, in some ways, she...

1533
01:04:57.960 --> 01:04:58.920
You stupid man.

1534
01:04:59.820 --> 01:05:04.019
You didn't realise you would have died if I hadn't got the food

1535
01:05:04.019 --> 01:05:05.400
machine working for you.

1536
01:05:08.159 --> 01:05:11.880
I do do a rather reasonable due to blue seat, which is unfortunate

1537
01:05:11.880 --> 01:05:12.659
because I'm a man.

1538
01:05:15.300 --> 01:05:17.400
I think we should keep that in.

1539
01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:21.239
They were back in Lime Grove. horrendous.

1540
01:05:21.300 --> 01:05:23.519
Terrible, terrible timing.

1541
01:05:23.579 --> 01:05:28.019
No, but now they've, did I make a lime grove mistake earlier on in

1542
01:05:28.019 --> 01:05:30.059
the podcast and you were both too polite to mention it.

1543
01:05:30.119 --> 01:05:31.559
No, I think you were still correct.

1544
01:05:31.619 --> 01:05:32.820
No, you're correct.

1545
01:05:32.880 --> 01:05:35.820
They had gone out, but they were back on back in Studio D. And

1546
01:05:35.820 --> 01:05:40.139
this was awful for everybody, terribly hot, this kept going off

1547
01:05:40.139 --> 01:05:41.340
the sets kept getting wet.

1548
01:05:41.400 --> 01:05:43.679
They had to wait for it to wait, the sprinkles to go.

1549
01:05:43.739 --> 01:05:48.179
So a lot, she said, you know, she said the tension that you see is

1550
01:05:48.179 --> 01:05:50.820
entirely naturalistic, this is exactly what we were going

1551
01:05:50.820 --> 01:05:51.059
through.

1552
01:05:51.119 --> 01:05:55.320
But he would produce notes is why she saw Maudlin.

1553
01:05:55.380 --> 01:05:56.219
Why has she been so difficult?

1554
01:05:56.280 --> 01:05:57.480
Bloody hell.

1555
01:05:57.539 --> 01:06:00.780
I been nibbled by rats and I'm ill and the way it's written and

1556
01:06:00.780 --> 01:06:02.880
I'm trying to like my little socks off because I've got nothing

1557
01:06:02.880 --> 01:06:05.820
else to do and I'm getting copying criticism from everyone

1558
01:06:05.820 --> 01:06:07.559
including the fan base today.

1559
01:06:07.619 --> 01:06:09.900
And you see this being really crap and week in this.

1560
01:06:09.960 --> 01:06:10.920
I think she's fine.

1561
01:06:10.980 --> 01:06:13.500
I think she's doing a great job and she's got nothing else to do.

1562
01:06:13.559 --> 01:06:17.159
I mean, her performance, like whatever about her performance, it

1563
01:06:17.159 --> 01:06:19.139
is really a problem with the way the character is written.

1564
01:06:19.199 --> 01:06:20.699
It's really holy...

1565
01:06:20.820 --> 01:06:21.840
Carol's a good actress.

1566
01:06:21.900 --> 01:06:23.099
Yes.

1567
01:06:23.159 --> 01:06:25.260
Especially if in this, yes.

1568
01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:27.900
Well, especially the censor rights.

1569
01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:28.860
She's really good in.

1570
01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:30.239
Um, an earthly child.

1571
01:06:30.300 --> 01:06:30.840
She's really good.

1572
01:06:30.900 --> 01:06:32.039
She's very good in the Daleks.

1573
01:06:32.099 --> 01:06:33.179
Outside of Doctor Who.

1574
01:06:33.239 --> 01:06:33.960
She is great in the St.

1575
01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:36.480
Trinian's film she's in, and also Day of the Triffords.

1576
01:06:36.539 --> 01:06:37.199
Yeah.

1577
01:06:37.199 --> 01:06:39.659
Do you know I've never seen that day of the truth?

1578
01:06:39.719 --> 01:06:40.260
good, yeah.

1579
01:06:40.320 --> 01:06:40.679
It's good.

1580
01:06:40.739 --> 01:06:44.159
It's, I would say it's not as good as the 80s TV version, which

1581
01:06:44.159 --> 01:06:45.239
covers more of the story.

1582
01:06:45.300 --> 01:06:49.380
But for a Hollywood adaptation where they have to shorten the

1583
01:06:49.380 --> 01:06:50.219
story to 90 minutes.

1584
01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:54.119
It, you know, where a lot of those things they will cut out so

1585
01:06:54.119 --> 01:06:57.900
much of the intent of the book, it still maintains the spirit.

1586
01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:04.980
And Carol, she is a supporting character in it, but she is a very

1587
01:07:04.980 --> 01:07:06.360
memorable character in it.

1588
01:07:06.420 --> 01:07:09.719
No, well, I've never seen her in anything else, so it's hard to

1589
01:07:09.719 --> 01:07:09.960
know.

1590
01:07:10.019 --> 01:07:11.699
For me, it's has no...

1591
01:07:11.820 --> 01:07:14.159
Yeah, it sounds like in the pilot, she could have played a more

1592
01:07:14.159 --> 01:07:18.300
detached and more self-possessed alien character who was who

1593
01:07:18.300 --> 01:07:19.739
enjoyed the adventures.

1594
01:07:19.800 --> 01:07:22.800
But here she's just sort of a blubbery, panicky fool.

1595
01:07:22.860 --> 01:07:23.699
Do you know what I mean?

1596
01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:26.340
And like worse than in any of those stories so far?

1597
01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:30.480
And, you know, I'm sure that's not Caroline's choice, but gosh

1598
01:07:30.480 --> 01:07:32.219
it's really sort of miserable to watch.

1599
01:07:32.340 --> 01:07:37.019
Kind of when you compare with our self-possessed Jackie is in the

1600
01:07:37.019 --> 01:07:38.940
same circumstances.

1601
01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:39.780
You know?

1602
01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:42.179
I mean, it's not real peril. you know what I mean?

1603
01:07:42.239 --> 01:07:44.280
It's not she's not with Peter R.

1604
01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:46.320
Newman in a prisoner of war camp.

1605
01:07:46.380 --> 01:07:49.679
She's just in Lime Grove pretending to be in a prison cell.

1606
01:07:49.739 --> 01:07:52.619
You know, we don't need quite that level of hysteria.

1607
01:07:52.679 --> 01:07:58.139
And I think just the kind of, um, the, the way that Barbara

1608
01:07:58.139 --> 01:08:00.599
pitches it, where it's a terrible thing, but she's sort of

1609
01:08:00.599 --> 01:08:03.300
resigned to it, and we're not being forced to sit through a lot of

1610
01:08:03.300 --> 01:08:04.019
histrionics.

1611
01:08:04.079 --> 01:08:04.920
Do you know what I mean?

1612
01:08:04.980 --> 01:08:07.019
Yeah, they're sort of, they're on 2 levels.

1613
01:08:07.079 --> 01:08:11.940
And if if Carol Anne was on Barbara's level of, okay, I'm really

1614
01:08:11.940 --> 01:08:15.239
scared, but I'm going to work through it, or if Jackie was on

1615
01:08:15.239 --> 01:08:17.460
Carol Anne's level of, oh my god, I'm going to panic.

1616
01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:19.619
It wouldn't seem so jarring.

1617
01:08:19.680 --> 01:08:21.239
Not fun to watch that.

1618
01:08:21.300 --> 01:08:24.300
I think the reason that scene is JoJo is when we can't forget this

1619
01:08:24.300 --> 01:08:24.539
now.

1620
01:08:24.600 --> 01:08:28.500
It's written by Dennis Spooner and Dennis Spooner is 1st and

1621
01:08:28.500 --> 01:08:30.119
foremost, a comedic writer.

1622
01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:32.819
This is actually meant to be seen as a comedy.

1623
01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:35.159
Yeah, and I think again, the movie?

1624
01:08:35.220 --> 01:08:36.060
The direction is...

1625
01:08:36.180 --> 01:08:37.500
The direction doesn't quite pick up.

1626
01:08:37.560 --> 01:08:38.159
No, at all.

1627
01:08:38.220 --> 01:08:38.939
Except for...

1628
01:08:38.939 --> 01:08:40.560
You've got a non-English...

1629
01:08:40.619 --> 01:08:42.899
The director had very little English, apparently, when he was

1630
01:08:42.899 --> 01:08:43.979
making this suit.

1631
01:08:44.039 --> 01:08:46.319
He's not quite there yet either.

1632
01:08:46.380 --> 01:08:48.060
Like his next story.

1633
01:08:48.119 --> 01:08:49.319
Spooner.

1634
01:08:49.380 --> 01:08:51.000
Oh, yeah, yeah, it's tremendous.

1635
01:08:51.060 --> 01:08:53.520
And this is not as good as that.

1636
01:08:53.579 --> 01:08:56.760
You know, he's still finding his feet as well. with Doctor Who.

1637
01:08:56.880 --> 01:09:00.779
And it's amazing when you consider that in the time frame we're

1638
01:09:00.779 --> 01:09:01.140
thinking of.

1639
01:09:01.199 --> 01:09:04.739
It's either this or the Romans, which got him the job as script

1640
01:09:04.739 --> 01:09:05.159
editor.

1641
01:09:05.220 --> 01:09:08.579
And I think it's this because he scripted it to dumb the rescue.

1642
01:09:09.300 --> 01:09:11.220
Which is true.

1643
01:09:11.220 --> 01:09:12.420
Which meant that he was going to get the job.

1644
01:09:12.479 --> 01:09:14.640
Yeah, Whittaker wrote the rescue.

1645
01:09:14.699 --> 01:09:15.659
Whittaker Rose script there.

1646
01:09:15.720 --> 01:09:15.960
Yeah.

1647
01:09:16.560 --> 01:09:19.380
I could think of German expressionism at all.

1648
01:09:19.439 --> 01:09:22.140
Well, I was actually going to segue if that's okay to

1649
01:09:22.140 --> 01:09:23.640
unintentional comedy.

1650
01:09:23.699 --> 01:09:26.939
If this is rent to be read as a comedy, and I thought, you know, we

1651
01:09:26.939 --> 01:09:27.539
know that it is.

1652
01:09:27.600 --> 01:09:31.800
There are little moments like, you know, um, Barbara playing it

1653
01:09:31.800 --> 01:09:35.039
with a mormoset accent when they're playing 2 servants and at the

1654
01:09:35.039 --> 01:09:38.640
end of the thing, is this kind of, as it is, I suppose, hilarious.

1655
01:09:38.699 --> 01:09:40.199
But it's the supporting cast.

1656
01:09:40.260 --> 01:09:45.779
Most, I guess most significantly we've got James Canncross.

1657
01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:51.239
As Le Maitre and later reveal as James Sterling, to give us the

1658
01:09:51.239 --> 01:09:55.500
campus performance, I believe, we've ever had, even Billy's fluffy

1659
01:09:55.500 --> 01:10:00.840
feathered hat, cannot meet James Cancross's extraordinary

1660
01:10:00.840 --> 01:10:05.399
performance in this as the Sydney Carton character, the tale of 2

1661
01:10:05.399 --> 01:10:05.760
cities.

1662
01:10:05.819 --> 01:10:07.439
He's playing Dirk Bogart.

1663
01:10:07.500 --> 01:10:10.500
That film had just come out a few years before the British tailor

1664
01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:11.819
tremendously popular.

1665
01:10:11.880 --> 01:10:15.539
And if we're talking about unintentional reveals, the very 1st

1666
01:10:15.539 --> 01:10:23.039
brine island stretch jersey packed lunch reveal was Dirk Bogart's

1667
01:10:23.039 --> 01:10:26.699
famously well-packed, apparently, cinematically moments of wearing

1668
01:10:26.699 --> 01:10:29.520
them, wearing the pantaloons in that film anyway, he was kind of

1669
01:10:29.520 --> 01:10:30.180
well known for it.

1670
01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:36.000
Um, But I just can't get over James Kangross's performance.

1671
01:10:36.060 --> 01:10:40.380
He actually gives us Duckface and invented it in 9064.

1672
01:10:40.560 --> 01:10:43.260
We have the 1st selfie.

1673
01:10:43.319 --> 01:10:44.640
We didn't...

1674
01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:45.960
Doctor Who.

1675
01:10:46.020 --> 01:10:47.159
Star Trek?

1676
01:10:47.159 --> 01:10:48.180
Taken by John Cure.

1677
01:10:48.239 --> 01:10:49.020
Exactly.

1678
01:10:49.079 --> 01:10:53.159
James, you know, Star Trek may have invented the flip phone, but

1679
01:10:53.159 --> 01:10:56.399
Doctor Who created the Duckface Selfie.

1680
01:10:56.460 --> 01:10:57.420
Watch again.

1681
01:10:57.479 --> 01:11:01.319
He's doing it the entire way through, the way he looks up William

1682
01:11:01.319 --> 01:11:04.560
Russell, and there is no other way of saying that through all of

1683
01:11:04.560 --> 01:11:05.100
these episodes.

1684
01:11:05.159 --> 01:11:07.319
It's Carry on Frenchy.

1685
01:11:07.560 --> 01:11:12.000
It sets up beautifully that Caroline Ford's next big cinematic

1686
01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:15.899
performance that's the saucy French mistress in the Great

1687
01:11:15.899 --> 01:11:18.659
Centrinian's train robbery of 1966.

1688
01:11:18.840 --> 01:11:20.640
I have never seen this.

1689
01:11:20.699 --> 01:11:25.079
It is well worth watching directly after you watch this. picking

1690
01:11:25.079 --> 01:11:26.880
up what you were saying about William Russell.

1691
01:11:26.939 --> 01:11:29.520
And, well, we haven't discussed William Russell much because we've

1692
01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:32.579
been talking about the strengths of Barbara and the deficiencies

1693
01:11:32.579 --> 01:11:33.180
of Susan.

1694
01:11:33.239 --> 01:11:37.079
William Russell is just steady and he's the rock throughout the

1695
01:11:37.079 --> 01:11:37.500
whole season.

1696
01:11:37.560 --> 01:11:40.920
And, you know, it's easy to see why people say the show is about

1697
01:11:40.920 --> 01:11:42.659
Ian for much of the 1st season.

1698
01:11:44.039 --> 01:11:45.539
No, about Barbara.

1699
01:11:45.600 --> 01:11:47.460
Barbara, I would have thought for the 1st season.

1700
01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:50.520
But I think that's a big reason that Reign of Terror falls, but

1701
01:11:50.520 --> 01:11:52.500
because Ian is...

1702
01:11:52.500 --> 01:11:53.760
So obviously not in the room.

1703
01:11:53.819 --> 01:11:55.260
Yeah, yeah, holiday.

1704
01:11:55.319 --> 01:11:57.420
He's on holiday for episodes 2 or three.

1705
01:11:57.479 --> 01:12:00.960
And literally the plot grinds to a halt.

1706
01:12:01.020 --> 01:12:02.460
The doctor gets some new clothes.

1707
01:12:02.579 --> 01:12:06.359
He gets in a in, sorry, the doctor gets some new clothes.

1708
01:12:06.420 --> 01:12:08.159
He gets Barbara and Susan out of jail.

1709
01:12:08.819 --> 01:12:10.859
And then they go back in.

1710
01:12:11.159 --> 01:12:13.859
Yes, I know.

1711
01:12:13.859 --> 01:12:17.399
And then he gets called to a meeting with Robespierre and then Ian

1712
01:12:17.399 --> 01:12:18.960
is released in time to come back.

1713
01:12:19.020 --> 01:12:21.420
Sorry, Ian is kidnapped in time to come back for his holiday, but

1714
01:12:21.420 --> 01:12:23.100
we don't see him until the following week.

1715
01:12:23.159 --> 01:12:25.140
And that's all that happens in 2 episodes.

1716
01:12:25.199 --> 01:12:28.260
But the 2 episodes we've lost are the ones where the plot actually

1717
01:12:28.260 --> 01:12:28.859
gets going again.

1718
01:12:28.920 --> 01:12:30.359
So true.

1719
01:12:30.359 --> 01:12:33.300
Do you remember, do you remember what happened to Rose here?

1720
01:12:33.359 --> 01:12:35.579
like something really horrible.

1721
01:12:35.640 --> 01:12:36.720
Yeah, what happened in real life?

1722
01:12:36.779 --> 01:12:39.420
She got in the jaw, shot in the jaw. right to me.

1723
01:12:39.479 --> 01:12:41.640
And so he actually wants to see it.

1724
01:12:41.699 --> 01:12:45.659
We hear the shot and we see it's again that moment that...

1725
01:12:45.659 --> 01:12:47.939
So everyone at home knows he's been all the kiddies at home know

1726
01:12:47.939 --> 01:12:48.720
he's been shot.

1727
01:12:48.720 --> 01:12:49.680
We knew the story.

1728
01:12:49.739 --> 01:12:50.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1729
01:12:50.340 --> 01:12:51.840
It's kind of like...

1730
01:12:51.899 --> 01:12:52.739
It's awful.

1731
01:12:52.800 --> 01:12:57.420
It's kind of like perhaps not my nieces and nephews, but people my

1732
01:12:57.420 --> 01:12:59.399
age know that Harold Holt drowned.

1733
01:12:59.460 --> 01:13:02.579
That's the kind of thing it was at the time, I think, that people

1734
01:13:02.579 --> 01:13:03.899
knew that...

1735
01:13:03.899 --> 01:13:07.920
Because history was not an elective in at that time.

1736
01:13:07.979 --> 01:13:09.239
You were taught this stuff.

1737
01:13:09.300 --> 01:13:12.239
Yeah, so I didn't I actually didn't know the shot in the jaw, I

1738
01:13:12.239 --> 01:13:14.520
think, because I'm lamentably ignorant about everything.

1739
01:13:14.579 --> 01:13:16.859
I didn't know until random terror.

1740
01:13:16.979 --> 01:13:17.579
Yeah, yeah.

1741
01:13:17.640 --> 01:13:18.479
Dr. Boutour.

1742
01:13:18.479 --> 01:13:19.739
That's horrible.

1743
01:13:19.800 --> 01:13:21.600
That is kind of horrible because he wanders through the thing.

1744
01:13:21.659 --> 01:13:24.239
The scene, you know, after that's happened.

1745
01:13:24.300 --> 01:13:25.739
Do you know the reason he was shot in the jaw?

1746
01:13:25.800 --> 01:13:27.539
Because it wouldn't shut up.

1747
01:13:27.600 --> 01:13:29.699
Much like outback.

1748
01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:31.500
He wouldn't need his mushroom.

1749
01:13:31.560 --> 01:13:35.579
It's kind of that, but no, it's it's that even he was respected

1750
01:13:35.579 --> 01:13:36.840
even by the general public.

1751
01:13:36.899 --> 01:13:42.060
But the general public realised, like the ones who knew the ones

1752
01:13:42.060 --> 01:13:45.119
who knew what he was really like, and I did air quotes around that

1753
01:13:45.119 --> 01:13:48.720
realised that if he gets the chance to talk to people, he will he

1754
01:13:48.720 --> 01:13:51.420
will convert them to his way of thinking, we will see him

1755
01:13:51.420 --> 01:13:51.600
talking.

1756
01:13:51.659 --> 01:13:52.380
Yeah, yeah.

1757
01:13:52.439 --> 01:13:55.020
That's the reason he specifically shot in the drawer.

1758
01:13:55.079 --> 01:13:57.420
We don't want to kill him because we need to put him on trial.

1759
01:13:57.479 --> 01:13:58.979
Tony Abbott.

1760
01:13:59.100 --> 01:14:01.020
He shoots himself in the drawer.

1761
01:14:02.279 --> 01:14:04.079
Ah, dear.

1762
01:14:04.079 --> 01:14:08.340
And then has to pay his doctor $7, right?

1763
01:14:08.760 --> 01:14:11.640
I think we've done tremendously well.

1764
01:14:11.699 --> 01:14:14.220
I hope you've been opening a bottle with us. how you would have

1765
01:14:14.220 --> 01:14:15.000
survived this without it.

1766
01:14:15.060 --> 01:14:15.720
No, no.

1767
01:14:15.720 --> 01:14:16.739
So they're doing it in 2 bits.

1768
01:14:16.800 --> 01:14:18.600
Oh, hurray, okay, one.

1769
01:14:18.600 --> 01:14:22.680
Yeah, we've actually recorded this in one session with just minor

1770
01:14:22.680 --> 01:14:23.399
lubrics.

1771
01:14:23.460 --> 01:14:25.979
So, um, I think...

1772
01:14:25.979 --> 01:14:27.000
We believe...

1773
01:14:27.060 --> 01:14:30.060
So 1st of all, we've got to discuss the Jenny Lairdward for most

1774
01:14:30.060 --> 01:14:31.619
cuzzling creative choice.

1775
01:14:31.680 --> 01:14:33.720
So do we have any nominees?

1776
01:14:33.779 --> 01:14:36.720
Well, again, I have to nominate James Cancross for giving me just

1777
01:14:36.720 --> 01:14:39.899
so much duck face for so little in return.

1778
01:14:39.960 --> 01:14:43.140
I really, really love what he managed to do for me.

1779
01:14:43.199 --> 01:14:46.199
It rescues Reign of Terror from being something I would have done

1780
01:14:46.199 --> 01:14:47.520
a lot of ironing instead of.

1781
01:14:48.359 --> 01:14:50.520
Oh, gosh.

1782
01:14:50.520 --> 01:14:51.659
What do you think?

1783
01:14:51.720 --> 01:14:52.439
I don't know.

1784
01:14:52.500 --> 01:14:54.420
I'm being forced to come up with an opinion on the spot.

1785
01:14:54.479 --> 01:14:56.039
I did think, what do we think?

1786
01:14:56.100 --> 01:15:01.739
Maybe I would give uh, Terry Nation, the Journey Laird Award.

1787
01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:08.220
And it really is just, you know, I still don't buy the idea that

1788
01:15:08.220 --> 01:15:14.159
it's a clever, unexpected fusion between hard science fiction and

1789
01:15:14.159 --> 01:15:15.359
action adventure story.

1790
01:15:15.420 --> 01:15:17.819
I think it is just the daleks, you mean?

1791
01:15:17.880 --> 01:15:18.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1792
01:15:18.720 --> 01:15:21.420
I think I think he's just run out of things to do at the end of

1793
01:15:21.420 --> 01:15:22.439
episode four.

1794
01:15:22.500 --> 01:15:25.199
And he goes, oh, crap, I've still got another 3 episodes.

1795
01:15:25.260 --> 01:15:26.100
Let's have a swamp.

1796
01:15:26.159 --> 01:15:27.600
He's even wound it up.

1797
01:15:27.659 --> 01:15:28.739
We found the fluid link.

1798
01:15:28.800 --> 01:15:29.460
We're ready to go.

1799
01:15:29.520 --> 01:15:31.260
Everything's resolved.

1800
01:15:31.319 --> 01:15:34.680
Off we go and it's just like the terrible sinking feeling that we

1801
01:15:34.680 --> 01:15:40.140
have just 3 more episodes of creeping slowly through, you know

1802
01:15:40.140 --> 01:15:43.619
unimpressive looking corridors to go because he can't think of

1803
01:15:43.619 --> 01:15:46.079
anything else to do for the next 7 episodes.

1804
01:15:46.140 --> 01:15:47.100
And that's really it.

1805
01:15:47.159 --> 01:15:51.000
He's out of things probably by that, you know, it'll just be

1806
01:15:51.000 --> 01:15:52.739
recycling from here on in, I think.

1807
01:15:52.859 --> 01:15:55.140
I believe in Oprah speak, we need to own that.

1808
01:15:55.199 --> 01:15:56.699
Yeah, maybe right.

1809
01:15:56.760 --> 01:16:00.960
Well, I suppose my nominee for the Jenny Laird award for the most

1810
01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:05.939
puzzling creative choice is Daphne Dare, who is the costume

1811
01:16:05.939 --> 01:16:08.939
designer for much of this series, but specifically, because she

1812
01:16:08.939 --> 01:16:12.239
does loads of good stuff, I'm just questioning one puzzling

1813
01:16:12.239 --> 01:16:15.720
creative choice, which is why is Altos wearing a pair of Speedos

1814
01:16:15.720 --> 01:16:18.479
in the Keys of Mariners?

1815
01:16:18.539 --> 01:16:22.619
Why does he have no shorts, no trousers, no kilt, no anything.

1816
01:16:22.680 --> 01:16:23.880
He's got a cape.

1817
01:16:23.939 --> 01:16:25.380
He's got a cape, that's true.

1818
01:16:25.500 --> 01:16:29.039
I suppose you could say it's inverting the whole thing off.

1819
01:16:29.100 --> 01:16:32.100
He's scantily clad and showing off our legs while Sabita has a

1820
01:16:32.100 --> 01:16:33.779
collar to floor dress.

1821
01:16:33.840 --> 01:16:37.560
I suppose you could say that, but it's just rather odd, especially

1822
01:16:37.560 --> 01:16:41.520
seeing as Altos seems to rather enjoy having his thighs rubbed.

1823
01:16:41.579 --> 01:16:43.260
Sorry, I'll do that as due to Lucy.

1824
01:16:43.319 --> 01:16:47.100
It is rather odd, especially when you consider that Altos rather

1825
01:16:47.100 --> 01:16:51.000
enjoys having his thighs rubbed for warmth by Ian, but then again

1826
01:16:51.000 --> 01:16:52.260
who wouldn't.

1827
01:16:52.739 --> 01:16:57.060
I really like that you drop down to Tanner to... from your own

1828
01:16:57.060 --> 01:16:57.420
reign.

1829
01:16:57.479 --> 01:17:01.619
According to my according to my audition, my failed audition, I

1830
01:17:01.619 --> 01:17:05.819
should say, for the creative arts school at Wollongong University

1831
01:17:05.819 --> 01:17:06.960
I am a barattenna.

1832
01:17:07.020 --> 01:17:07.560
So there you go.

1833
01:17:09.239 --> 01:17:12.359
Which would make due to base baritime, I guess.

1834
01:17:12.420 --> 01:17:16.079
They actually made that up just to kick me out. to kick you in the

1835
01:17:16.079 --> 01:17:16.319
ass.

1836
01:17:16.380 --> 01:17:19.260
And what about what about gorgeous things that we should then go

1837
01:17:19.260 --> 01:17:20.279
and have a look at?

1838
01:17:20.340 --> 01:17:21.659
Pics of the week.

1839
01:17:21.720 --> 01:17:22.859
Pick up the week. week.

1840
01:17:22.920 --> 01:17:25.920
My peaks of the week are about time.

1841
01:17:26.039 --> 01:17:27.479
Yeah, hurrah.

1842
01:17:27.539 --> 01:17:30.479
It's a series we have a copyright here, which you can see at home

1843
01:17:30.479 --> 01:17:31.800
through the microphone.

1844
01:17:31.800 --> 01:17:33.659
Spacetime visualiser.

1845
01:17:33.659 --> 01:17:37.199
Brendan's presenting it to the microphone, so you can all

1846
01:17:37.260 --> 01:17:39.000
presenting the book to my screen.

1847
01:17:39.060 --> 01:17:40.199
Yeah, sorry, the book.

1848
01:17:40.260 --> 01:17:42.359
It's Mr. Tat Wood and Mr. Lawrence Miles.

1849
01:17:42.420 --> 01:17:45.899
So it's the increasingly crazy...

1850
01:17:45.899 --> 01:17:48.960
Interestingly involved at Lawrence Miles, plus Tatwood. and

1851
01:17:48.960 --> 01:17:52.500
Tatwood in who used to wash his hair with dishwashing liquid and

1852
01:17:52.500 --> 01:17:53.640
wear a pith helmet.

1853
01:17:54.119 --> 01:17:56.819
There you go, when we used to know him.

1854
01:17:56.880 --> 01:17:57.899
I love your tab.

1855
01:17:58.020 --> 01:18:00.119
So it's a series of 7 books.

1856
01:18:00.239 --> 01:18:08.880
The 1st 6 are on the classic series and the 7th book, which has

1857
01:18:08.880 --> 01:18:12.479
only recently released, covers series one or 2 of the new series.

1858
01:18:12.600 --> 01:18:15.960
And it really is just some of the most extraordinarily detailed

1859
01:18:15.960 --> 01:18:16.619
writing.

1860
01:18:16.680 --> 01:18:19.500
There's a thing about sort of Doctor Who books of Doctor Who

1861
01:18:19.500 --> 01:18:21.899
program guides where you sort of think, eh, I could do that in my

1862
01:18:21.899 --> 01:18:22.140
sleep.

1863
01:18:22.199 --> 01:18:22.859
Do you know what I mean?

1864
01:18:22.920 --> 01:18:25.140
I could get a couple of my friends together and sit on a couch and

1865
01:18:25.140 --> 01:18:29.220
just blow V 8 without doing any research or preparation for like

1866
01:18:29.220 --> 01:18:30.000
hours.

1867
01:18:30.060 --> 01:18:30.720
Not at all like this.

1868
01:18:31.079 --> 01:18:36.659
But, um, but about time is meticulously researched.

1869
01:18:36.779 --> 01:18:39.300
It's really, really...

1870
01:18:39.300 --> 01:18:40.079
And they don't agree.

1871
01:18:40.140 --> 01:18:41.100
They don't get on.

1872
01:18:41.159 --> 01:18:42.960
So you get some really good moments.

1873
01:18:43.020 --> 01:18:43.800
I don't think so.

1874
01:18:43.859 --> 01:18:44.939
Yeah, I like that.

1875
01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:47.279
It's, it's, it's terrifically well written.

1876
01:18:47.340 --> 01:18:49.619
And if you need to know anything about the production, It's all

1877
01:18:49.619 --> 01:18:49.859
there.

1878
01:18:49.979 --> 01:18:52.560
Like it's not just people's opinions.

1879
01:18:52.619 --> 01:18:56.340
There's lots of concrete detail about the production and lots and

1880
01:18:56.340 --> 01:19:00.119
lots of really interesting stuff about the world into which each

1881
01:19:00.119 --> 01:19:01.380
episode was transmitted.

1882
01:19:01.439 --> 01:19:06.659
But it is uproariously entertaining and funny, just terribly well

1883
01:19:06.659 --> 01:19:07.500
terribly, terribly good.

1884
01:19:07.560 --> 01:19:10.560
Well worth, well worth a look, really terribly, terribly good

1885
01:19:10.560 --> 01:19:10.859
stuff.

1886
01:19:10.920 --> 01:19:14.460
And if you're at all interested in the sort of history of Doctor

1887
01:19:14.460 --> 01:19:17.939
Who's production, there's really nowhere else you can go for that

1888
01:19:17.939 --> 01:19:18.600
sort of information.

1889
01:19:19.199 --> 01:19:23.819
Well, my recommendation for this month, going from physical

1890
01:19:23.819 --> 01:19:27.479
imprint books to a book that did have a very small physical print

1891
01:19:27.479 --> 01:19:30.420
run, but I believe you can still get it as a PDF and we'll include

1892
01:19:30.420 --> 01:19:31.199
a link on the website.

1893
01:19:31.260 --> 01:19:34.079
It's the wonderful book of Doctor Who, 1964.

1894
01:19:34.199 --> 01:19:35.520
Oh, golly.

1895
01:19:35.579 --> 01:19:35.939
What?

1896
01:19:36.000 --> 01:19:37.319
And what it is.

1897
01:19:37.859 --> 01:19:41.340
When Matt Smith started as the doctor, instead of doing annuals

1898
01:19:41.340 --> 01:19:46.920
the BBC started doing the brilliant book of Doctor Who, very well

1899
01:19:46.920 --> 01:19:48.840
edited by Clayton Hickman.

1900
01:19:48.899 --> 01:19:49.979
Yeah, I mean, laughing's word.

1901
01:19:50.039 --> 01:19:54.359
Well, this is a book done in that style, but for Billy's 1st

1902
01:19:54.359 --> 01:19:54.600
season.

1903
01:19:54.659 --> 01:19:55.619
Have you guys not seen it?

1904
01:19:55.680 --> 01:19:58.020
I think I've got the PDF on it.

1905
01:19:58.079 --> 01:20:00.539
Tom is a little extra in one of the DWEs.

1906
01:20:00.659 --> 01:20:03.119
No, no, that was another movie. because that's great. was very

1907
01:20:03.119 --> 01:20:03.359
different.

1908
01:20:03.420 --> 01:20:07.739
But no, so this is exactly in that style with with fake interviews

1909
01:20:07.739 --> 01:20:08.760
with Heart Law.

1910
01:20:08.819 --> 01:20:09.840
No.

1911
01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:13.319
And it you get a map of marinace.

1912
01:20:14.579 --> 01:20:21.000
If anybody's familiar with the velvet jacket DVD covers website

1913
01:20:21.000 --> 01:20:24.720
the artist on their Joe Cannon is one of the artists who put this

1914
01:20:24.720 --> 01:20:25.079
book together.

1915
01:20:25.140 --> 01:20:28.979
I believe he's the head artist, but if you're the head artist and

1916
01:20:28.979 --> 01:20:31.199
you're listening, I do apologise for getting that.

1917
01:20:31.319 --> 01:20:32.279
Please let us know.

1918
01:20:32.340 --> 01:20:33.239
Please let us know.

1919
01:20:33.300 --> 01:20:34.380
This is called the...

1920
01:20:34.439 --> 01:20:35.819
This is called the Wonderful...

1921
01:20:35.819 --> 01:20:37.560
The Wonderful Book of Doctor Who, 1964.

1922
01:20:37.739 --> 01:20:38.340
Look at this.

1923
01:20:38.399 --> 01:20:39.840
It's absolutely beautiful.

1924
01:20:39.899 --> 01:20:42.119
I have a PDF.

1925
01:20:42.180 --> 01:20:43.260
I hope I'm meant to have that.

1926
01:20:43.319 --> 01:20:46.680
I believe it's available for free download, but the limited print

1927
01:20:46.680 --> 01:20:50.340
rum has ended, but it still looks beautiful on your computer

1928
01:20:50.340 --> 01:20:50.819
screen.

1929
01:20:50.880 --> 01:20:52.020
So that's my recommendation.

1930
01:20:52.079 --> 01:20:52.920
Google it.

1931
01:20:52.979 --> 01:20:54.180
We will also include a link.

1932
01:20:54.239 --> 01:20:54.899
Yeah, please.

1933
01:20:54.960 --> 01:20:56.039
I'm looking forward to seeing that.

1934
01:20:56.159 --> 01:21:00.720
Well, as representing the elder fandom here, for default, if not

1935
01:21:00.720 --> 01:21:05.039
choice, I've got to say, print medium is the 1st way I got to

1936
01:21:05.039 --> 01:21:08.460
catch up with Doctor Who in the 70s and 80s and it's still my 1st

1937
01:21:08.460 --> 01:21:09.659
go to of choice.

1938
01:21:09.720 --> 01:21:13.140
Please, if you haven't read them, find everything that David

1939
01:21:13.140 --> 01:21:15.779
Whittaker has ever written and read it.

1940
01:21:15.840 --> 01:21:19.619
I know that it's the popular thing now to listen to the audios, but

1941
01:21:19.619 --> 01:21:24.600
honestly, you don't have the subtleties of your own interpretation

1942
01:21:24.600 --> 01:21:28.680
and your own voice that you get from just reading a paper book

1943
01:21:28.680 --> 01:21:29.460
back novel.

1944
01:21:29.520 --> 01:21:31.260
I think there's only three.

1945
01:21:31.319 --> 01:21:34.380
David Whitaker in an exciting adventure with the Daleks.

1946
01:21:34.439 --> 01:21:37.020
I know it's meant to be Doctor Who, but we'll play it this way.

1947
01:21:37.079 --> 01:21:40.680
The Crusades and the 3rd one.

1948
01:21:40.739 --> 01:21:41.819
No, he didn't write the zerbie.

1949
01:21:41.880 --> 01:21:42.659
That was Bill Stratton.

1950
01:21:42.720 --> 01:21:43.859
It was Bill Stratton.

1951
01:21:43.920 --> 01:21:44.699
So it is just those two.

1952
01:21:44.760 --> 01:21:45.539
It is just the two.

1953
01:21:45.600 --> 01:21:48.180
Okay, because I was, yeah, and glorious.

1954
01:21:48.239 --> 01:21:51.779
If I can just add to that, Richard, you don't need to track down a

1955
01:21:51.779 --> 01:21:54.840
copy of the originals because both of those have been reprinted by

1956
01:21:54.840 --> 01:21:57.779
being reprinting their out right now with a lovely introduction

1957
01:21:57.779 --> 01:21:59.760
and you can also get them as PDFs.

1958
01:21:59.819 --> 01:22:06.000
I actually have the audible.com audiobook of William Russell

1959
01:22:06.000 --> 01:22:07.680
reading Doctor Who.

1960
01:22:07.680 --> 01:22:11.340
And I have heard that because BBC 4 played it last year and it's

1961
01:22:11.340 --> 01:22:14.880
beautiful, but I honestly say, if you're used to hearing or

1962
01:22:14.880 --> 01:22:18.840
getting your target novels as audios, just for these two, go back

1963
01:22:18.840 --> 01:22:21.479
and read them in print because your own voice will make a

1964
01:22:21.479 --> 01:22:21.899
difference.

1965
01:22:22.079 --> 01:22:23.520
They are actually quite beautiful.

1966
01:22:23.520 --> 01:22:29.520
And something to look out for in the, in both of them, really, is

1967
01:22:29.520 --> 01:22:34.199
David Whittaker really focusses on and captures the relationship

1968
01:22:34.199 --> 01:22:35.399
between Ian and Barbara.

1969
01:22:35.460 --> 01:22:37.500
I won't say anything more than that.

1970
01:22:37.560 --> 01:22:41.520
I think it's interesting to see how much the script editor's role

1971
01:22:41.520 --> 01:22:44.699
was really involved because Dave Whitaker was script editor.

1972
01:22:44.760 --> 01:22:48.539
So much of his voice after reading the books, I can now see in

1973
01:22:48.539 --> 01:22:49.380
that 1st series.

1974
01:22:51.000 --> 01:22:53.100
So there we have it.

1975
01:22:53.159 --> 01:22:59.100
I think that's everything we've got to say about the 1st season of

1976
01:22:59.100 --> 01:22:59.880
Doctor Who.

1977
01:22:59.939 --> 01:23:04.380
So we'll be back next month with another two-part podcast in July

1978
01:23:04.380 --> 01:23:07.560
for Doctor Who season two.

1979
01:23:07.619 --> 01:23:10.979
So we'll be looking at all the stories from Planet of Giants

1980
01:23:10.979 --> 01:23:13.319
through to the Time Meddler inclusives.

1981
01:23:13.380 --> 01:23:14.399
A lot.

1982
01:23:14.460 --> 01:23:15.420
I'm so excited.

1983
01:23:15.479 --> 01:23:16.260
It's a great year.

1984
01:23:16.319 --> 01:23:17.460
It's fantastic year.

1985
01:23:17.520 --> 01:23:19.979
Yeah, we say goodbye to Susan and we say hello to Vicky.

1986
01:23:20.039 --> 01:23:21.060
Oh, thank God.

1987
01:23:21.119 --> 01:23:23.579
But we are getting ahead of ourselves.

1988
01:23:23.640 --> 01:23:25.439
So I'm going to say goodbye.

1989
01:23:25.800 --> 01:23:27.659
Oh, goodbye.

1990
01:23:27.720 --> 01:23:29.340
And goodbye and thank you.

1991
01:23:34.020 --> 01:23:37.140
You have been listening to Flat Through Entirety with Nathan

1992
01:23:37.140 --> 01:23:39.300
Bottomley, Brendan Jones and Richard Stone.

1993
01:23:39.359 --> 01:23:43.020
This episode, Sir Maudlin, was recorded on June the 1st in Sydney

1994
01:23:43.020 --> 01:23:43.319
Australia.

1995
01:23:43.380 --> 01:23:45.600
The next episode will be released on July 20.

1996
01:23:46.079 --> 01:23:50.460
You can find us at flightthroughentirety.com or on Twitter at FTE

1997
01:23:50.460 --> 01:23:51.000
podcast.

1998
01:23:51.060 --> 01:23:54.000
I'm going to go into a room in which no light will shine and fill

1999
01:23:54.000 --> 01:23:54.899
that room with noise.

2000
01:23:54.960 --> 01:23:56.399
It's a One Direction concert.

2001
01:23:59.460 --> 01:24:02.760
Because you see, I, I, I don't, I think it's got very interesting

2002
01:24:02.760 --> 01:24:03.300
ideas.

2003
01:24:03.359 --> 01:24:07.739
I don't rate it that highly though, but I find it...

2004
01:24:07.800 --> 01:24:10.859
That's okay, it was just, wasn't it, darling?

2005
01:24:10.920 --> 01:24:12.239
That's alright.

2006
01:24:12.300 --> 01:24:13.680
I find that.