WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:20:06

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Hello, and welcome to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who

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podcast. whom you can't confine to one place in one time.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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And by Richard.

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Hello.

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Who you are.

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That's who I am.

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That's the reason I'm doing that today.

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Not the only one.

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Yes, because Richard is not the last person to introduce.

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We have joining us, friend of the podcast and convention

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interviewer and organiser extraordinaire Sir Todd Bealby and Todd

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I'm now handing over to you and going to drink this very nice

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champagne.

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Cheers.

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Cheers.

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Cheers.

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Cheers.

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Cheers.

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Thank you, Brenda.

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Thank you, everybody, for having me here today.

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We feel special.

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Yes, I'm quite excited.

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I'm 600 and just stere at each other.

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I don't have to control these 2 when someone brings up the

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massacre.

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That's all you today Did somebody mention the message?

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No, please don't go.

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No, I'm really excited.

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Listeners, it's in this inner sanctum with the 3 who will.

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Okay, speak Canilla.

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I don't think there was a contest.

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Or yes, well, of course, we're here to reflect on your journey so

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far.

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I just want to thank you on half of everybody. the wonderful

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insights that you've given us along the way and all your

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discussions and arguments and affirmations and making us think

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about things that we never thought about before or dismissed, you

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know, offhand.

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I think there's been a lot of dismissal.

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Oh, no, no, it certainly made me, you know, go back and look at

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the sense rights again and reevaluate a few different characters

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and performances, but we might get to that.

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All right, let's start with something deep and meaningful.

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You've just reached the end of the 1960s.

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This journey that you've undertaken.

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What have you discovered about yourselves?

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As Doctor Who fans?

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I wonder what the youngest person thinks about that.

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Um, In a way, I have discovered that I can actually do this

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project because I don't talk about this much on the podcast itself

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but the podcast was my idea initially I do the editing.

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I posted most of the episodes.

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Richard has also hosted about... about a 3rd of them.

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The cat has helped as well.

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Yeah, yeah, Richard's cat.

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Yeah, it's just the fact that I... have been able to put my mind

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to it and edit it and cut it all down and it's it's very Zen.

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It, like darkening for me.

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Which is, sorry, what do you mean you cut it down?

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I mean, they're actually longer than that.

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They're actually longer.

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Dear listener, you know, sometimes lifting the veil here.

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Very often, especially if you hear us mention an actor's name, we

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usually have to rush to Wikipedia.

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No, rubbish, it's all it's all in our rotary file effects.

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Toby Haydock, if you're listening, I apologise that just throwing

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your iPod across the room in disgust that we don't know Doctor Who

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actors.

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But, um, I mean, that's what I've discovered about myself, I

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suppose, in this.

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It hasn't really changed any of my my views of Doctor Who.

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I have sort of come to realise more how the actors develop their

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portrayals.

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Because if we just watch, say, a solitary story featuring, say

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Deborah Watling, Victoria is much maligned by the fan community

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but if you watch...

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Yeah, they can shape, they're mistaking his head.

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We've been quite strong on that, haven't we?

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So-called secondary characters and how, you know, right from the

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beginning, the female lead was really the lead.

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It was actually called that, just as Russell called, his search

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show rose, and Russell recognised that it was there from the

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start.

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I was interested to know what you thought, Brendan, on just a view

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of the time in the 60s and that's what I've been getting out of

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this.

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There's a whole lot of other windows into what was going on

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because I didn't catch the black and whites the 1st time round, but

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we were certainly aware of them.

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And there were this great mysterious bolt of the unknown that were

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half remembered by fans 10 years old and then I was, you know, way

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too much older and cool when you're in your early teens to

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actually, you know, part with anything, but little snips of

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knowledge.

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So it was it was so difficult to find anything, even just for

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colour pictures, you have to go to university libraries and become

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a nerdy spot to find old issues of TV week or whatever it was that

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we used to look up.

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So I actually learned research skills as an 11, 12 year old.

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Yeah, going into Fisher library.

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God, isn't that nerdy?

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I'm trying to find the old images, but and now, of course, it's a

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completely different take.

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So I was wondering for someone like you who's grown up with with

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all of this information available.

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How is this taken?

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This has taken a different check for you.

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And I love that you said it's actually about the actors.

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Yeah, so you can see ongoing characterisation.

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Before I comment on that, I just want to put out that, Richard

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puts in out the 3 of us.

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You put in the biggest amount of research.

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Well, that's my homework.

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Because, but then as I just said, you do an enormous amount of

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work on the IT in the background.

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And that's really staggers me is still a Luddite.

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I just tell them how much work there is in putting something like

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this together.

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Well, mostly just editing out, I swear, and probably a lot of Mac

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and I'll say that.

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Yeah, I never swear.

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Yeah, no, the leather, never swears.

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It's always in our coat.

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It's always in archaic languages, so the rest of us can't

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understand.

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It's great.

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But it's great that you're still finding it fun and enjoyable and

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not a labour.

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The surprising thing is...

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Most Can I can I just can I do an anecdote?

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Opening the kimono and...

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We recorded the 4 the 4 episodes of season 3 all in one sitting

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one mammoth sitting.

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And I think probably, you know, those 4 episodes would have to add

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up to, you know, 5 hours.

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Yeah, the recording was something like 6.5 hours.

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The overall recording time.

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And it was murderous.

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Richard was going to kill either one of us.

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Because also Richard had volunteered to host that recording

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and...

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I was starting a new job the next day.

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You didn't know when you volunteer that.

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And Rod was sick as well, so it couldn't be at my place and I was

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going to America.

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So we got double banking or something like that trying to get

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through all of it.

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And I think our tolerance, our tolerance for that has gotten laid

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out.

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The last few times we've just recorded one.

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Yeah, we recorded one.

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I think going forward now the seasons are mercifully much

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shorter.

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We'll be able to, um, you know, we'll be able to do just sort of 2

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at a time and release 2 a month.

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Okay, 26 episodes to watch.

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See, for me, the big thing going back to your question, Todd, is

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that for me, the thing has been just how much fun it is and like

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how happy with the product, the finished product I've been.

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I've really, really enjoyed it and I tragically, occasionally re

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listened to it.

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You know, I have my favourites.

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I love that.

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The season 3 once, actually, despite the production process.

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That'll be cool 1st ones.

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I think we get I think we got very raw with season 3 and there's a

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lot in season 3 that's controversial.

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We talked about the racism in the arc.

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I was going to say YouTube is centred, but we dissented with you

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Nathan, over the massacre because we think it's wonderful and

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you're wrong.

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It's my favourite, yeah.

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I think it was more fun to listen to than it was to record.

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But I hope so.

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But it's certainly that's what a lot of these seasons are like.

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And if you do try and watch them in a hit.

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I really recommend no one does that because you do end up feeling

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it's not, again, it's, is it Sandoval?

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and all Toby Haddock says it as well.

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You're not into watch these things on the block.

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And that's right.

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And that's the other thing too. is that I didn't really know the

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60s of Doctor Who very well.

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And I'd already decided that I was going to watch the Barbara

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era.

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Um, as I like to call it, just all the way through.

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I was just going to watch the 1st 2 seasons, I was probably going

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to end the chase.

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And then Brendan brought up the idea of the podcast and so it

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ended up being watching the 60s all the way through.

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And I've mentioned on the podcast before heaps of these things

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things like Marco Polo and the Massacre and the highlanders and

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the savages and the space pirates.

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There's lots of them that I just never ever seen before.

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And so now, you know, as I mentioned in the last episode, I've

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seen all of Doctor Who.

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And that's like I'm really happy about that.

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I've loved the show since I was 10, you know, now to have a better

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idea of how it went in the 60s and also to discover just how great

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it was in the 60s.

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So someone at a party over Christmas said that they got the

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impression that I only really liked about 6 classic series stories

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and that everything else was tiresome.

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But, um, well, you do want to put a rootin or a bandrum in

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everything you lost.

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But, um...

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Why did I never think of that?

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I think going back in series nine.

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Awesome.

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They're giant 50 foot high cyborgs, apparently.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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No, just to discover how much I loved 60s Doctor Who, and

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particularly the Heartnol era, you know, and for all of its

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terrible faults.

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Even season three, it has been a really fun, a fun ride.

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And I think that's what I appreciate.

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I do the website and that kind of thing.

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And that's sort of something that I've done before and something

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that was well within my wheelhouse sort of thing, but that has

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also been fun, I think, and the interactions on the website and

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more specifically the Facebook page, which is where most people

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you know, tend to engage with us.

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And I should mention, dear listener, that shortly after this

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podcast, in time for our 1st release for the John Pert era, we

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will be debuting a redesigned website.

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So stay tuned for that.

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Does it look alright?

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I think it looks great.

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Okay.

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Oh, it's a car. excited.

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Do you think that heading into the 70s that because as Australian

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fans we've seen or they show so many times that's going to

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influence your journey?

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Are you are you looking at going in and saying, well, I want

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something to be proven different than they want my perceptions, I

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would say, you know, a performance or a story or you're just going

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in there and just taking it as an accountant.

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I'm still like watching and making notes.

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Do you know what I mean?

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And I, last night I finished watching the Siberians and and I

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discovered things that I thought about that, that I hadn't thought

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before.

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So I think you watch it sort of a bit more intentionally and a

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little bit more deliberately if you have to say something about

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it.

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But I do expect it at least to be easier.

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You know, these are things that I know so well, you know, um, that

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it will be easy to say, sort of fun things about it.

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I think the challenge will be saying things that are surprising

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about it.

254
00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:49.139
Like, I think people know the 60s a bit less well.

255
00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:51.059
You know, even among our audience.

256
00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:52.200
That's true.

257
00:11:52.259 --> 00:11:54.779
It is more familiar, but there's also surprises.

258
00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:56.580
And this is the thing with watching them again.

259
00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:58.620
I'd only just watch them the year before.

260
00:11:58.620 --> 00:12:05.700
Um, as part of the great cultural journey of life. is that there's

261
00:12:05.700 --> 00:12:08.340
something different each time, even to the point that I really

262
00:12:08.340 --> 00:12:12.240
didn't enjoy pets tenure watching them again series.

263
00:12:12.299 --> 00:12:14.820
I think I got up to just sort of the middle of Tom before we

264
00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:17.820
started the podcast a bit. back to the beginning.

265
00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:18.480
Imagine that.

266
00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:23.580
Um, and then this time around I did, and I can see how good Pat is

267
00:12:23.580 --> 00:12:26.580
even when he's laboured with you, he could say less than lustrous

268
00:12:26.580 --> 00:12:30.779
squid material, less than less than ideal plot thread, 3% of one.

269
00:12:30.779 --> 00:12:32.519
For the Christmas season.

270
00:12:32.580 --> 00:12:36.299
Um, that, yeah, there are surprises or even just seeing how the

271
00:12:36.299 --> 00:12:39.120
women players have really been fully served and they finally got

272
00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:44.460
it partly mostly partly right with Wendy Abri, but even then, she

273
00:12:44.460 --> 00:12:46.080
they kind of forgot about it.

274
00:12:46.139 --> 00:12:48.539
And yeah, there'll be lots to talk about on all the different

275
00:12:48.539 --> 00:12:49.799
cultural levels of it.

276
00:12:49.860 --> 00:12:51.299
And the 70s being more familiar.

277
00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:54.480
I think might actually be more surprising because we think we

278
00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:56.220
already know about it and then we go back.

279
00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:59.220
We were terribly young or even not there, deep listeners.

280
00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:00.539
So that's an issue.

281
00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:04.080
I never bring up my age.

282
00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:07.440
I don't think it's... to the rest of us.

283
00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:10.440
Maybe because the last 70s are great, though.

284
00:13:11.580 --> 00:13:12.600
No, they were really the best.

285
00:13:12.659 --> 00:13:14.220
They actually were.

286
00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:17.879
You could be a nine-year-old still know about Studio 54 and Bianca

287
00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:20.340
Jago, because Kenny Everett and the Goodies were constantly

288
00:13:20.340 --> 00:13:21.000
referencing that.

289
00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:25.259
We, yeah, there was, growing up without an internet didn't mean we

290
00:13:25.259 --> 00:13:26.759
didn't know the thing.

291
00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:29.820
You were just more attentive to the little than the focussed on

292
00:13:29.820 --> 00:13:30.840
the camera obscure.

293
00:13:30.899 --> 00:13:33.179
The light was narrower, but it was a lot sharper.

294
00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:37.259
Well, I do get a bit of an eye into that because, as you know, but

295
00:13:37.259 --> 00:13:39.120
I'm not sure if I mentioned a podcast before.

296
00:13:39.179 --> 00:13:43.440
My partner, Roddy, is older than myself. closer to you guys in age

297
00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:44.039
than me.

298
00:13:44.100 --> 00:13:48.659
So he does talk about that time and he...

299
00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:51.179
He's digitised most of his record collections.

300
00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:54.779
So I've heard I've heard such classics as disco wedding.

301
00:13:54.779 --> 00:13:56.580
Oh. by Nigo.

302
00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:59.279
You haven't heard that, it is gloriously bad.

303
00:14:01.019 --> 00:14:03.000
Yeah, why not?

304
00:14:03.059 --> 00:14:07.620
But I think something that's always interesting for me, looking

305
00:14:07.620 --> 00:14:10.559
back on these stories, is I have a nostalgia for an age in which I

306
00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:10.980
never lived.

307
00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:12.360
But so do we.

308
00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:14.639
Just have been immediately before our time.

309
00:14:14.700 --> 00:14:17.519
I find that quite relevant, that early 60s thing, yeah.

310
00:14:17.580 --> 00:14:20.399
I mean, the other thing I'm quite looking forward to.

311
00:14:20.460 --> 00:14:23.100
Like we did in the 60s, is rehabilitation of certain characters

312
00:14:23.100 --> 00:14:27.000
because I still talk to people who insist that Joe Grant had no

313
00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:27.960
character development.

314
00:14:28.019 --> 00:14:29.220
Oh, God, she's brilliant.

315
00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:30.240
She's the best thing ever.

316
00:14:30.299 --> 00:14:31.259
Richard can't stanza.

317
00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:32.700
Spoiler alert.

318
00:14:32.820 --> 00:14:38.100
Although, I should point out, we all look cated. and that's

319
00:14:38.100 --> 00:14:38.460
unfair.

320
00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:39.480
It's a bit more.

321
00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:40.620
I idolise.

322
00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:44.820
I idolise, Katie, because people have seen it, but...

323
00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:47.399
You and Jim Stuart Thurlow.

324
00:14:47.460 --> 00:14:51.240
Well, I only said I was doing Stuart Phil when Annelise was there

325
00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:52.139
as Katie as well.

326
00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:54.480
So, you know, but I want to embarrass her.

327
00:14:54.539 --> 00:14:55.259
No, exactly.

328
00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:56.340
I don't want to show her up.

329
00:14:56.460 --> 00:14:59.100
Some people might have thought that one of you carried off a

330
00:14:59.100 --> 00:14:59.879
little more convincing.

331
00:14:59.940 --> 00:15:01.139
Well, Katie, I'm not going to say.

332
00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:03.539
Katie said that I was the most screen accurate.

333
00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:04.440
I had the hair.

334
00:15:04.620 --> 00:15:08.279
Actually, But...

335
00:15:08.700 --> 00:15:14.940
But this is also the era of Doctor Who, the early 1970s, it was my

336
00:15:14.940 --> 00:15:15.720
favourite as Charles.

337
00:15:15.779 --> 00:15:16.919
It's not my favourite now.

338
00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:19.740
My favourite now is Patsyera, mainly for Pat, because it's your

339
00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:21.299
favourite, Richard. scripts aren't always great.

340
00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:24.779
But he's wonderful, which has been parallelled recently by Matt

341
00:15:24.779 --> 00:15:25.980
Smith, in my opinion.

342
00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:28.440
You know, his scripts aren't always great, but he is never

343
00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:30.179
anything less than ripped.

344
00:15:30.299 --> 00:15:33.299
And we're learning just how quickly they were having to run those

345
00:15:33.299 --> 00:15:36.419
things off, the period of it, pretty much like Pat's era.

346
00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:38.039
So there are lots of mirrors to that as well.

347
00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:39.360
Which doctor?

348
00:15:39.539 --> 00:15:41.100
Is better.

349
00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:42.240
Ooh.

350
00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:44.399
Which area?

351
00:15:44.460 --> 00:15:45.539
You see that?

352
00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:45.960
Okay.

353
00:15:46.019 --> 00:15:48.120
Can you scale that, though, one to the other?

354
00:15:48.179 --> 00:15:49.620
Is that a fair question?

355
00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:51.299
Like, you know, of course it is, yeah.

356
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:52.980
Can you get an answer?

357
00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:58.019
Pat's a better actor or he's more convincing or compelling to

358
00:15:58.019 --> 00:15:58.200
watch.

359
00:15:58.259 --> 00:16:00.419
He's certainly playing a part.

360
00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:01.559
Pat's extraordinary.

361
00:16:01.620 --> 00:16:02.399
He's a different actor.

362
00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:03.960
Yeah, he's a great actor.

363
00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:07.440
I really like Hartner as the doctor, though, an enormous amount.

364
00:16:07.500 --> 00:16:09.240
I love that conception of the character.

365
00:16:09.299 --> 00:16:13.139
And I have an affection for heart in a way that I don't quite for

366
00:16:13.139 --> 00:16:13.559
Pat.

367
00:16:13.620 --> 00:16:18.779
I think Pat is better and Pat is the template from which everyone

368
00:16:18.779 --> 00:16:21.299
else, everyone says this, but the template from which everyone

369
00:16:21.299 --> 00:16:25.019
else derives their performance of who the doctor is.

370
00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:30.899
But aren't always so lovely and so kind of whimsical and funny and

371
00:16:30.899 --> 00:16:33.480
yeah, Anna Kirk would agree with everything.

372
00:16:33.539 --> 00:16:35.759
Yes, yeah, no, well, I got this one.

373
00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:38.700
And I think his era is better.

374
00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:40.559
I think that, you know, it's technically worse.

375
00:16:40.620 --> 00:16:41.340
You know what I mean?

376
00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:43.259
The show looks better in the trout near up.

377
00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:45.480
You know, production, how use a better, all of that sort of

378
00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:45.720
thing.

379
00:16:45.779 --> 00:16:49.440
It's a truism to say that production values get a better year over

380
00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:49.799
year.

381
00:16:49.980 --> 00:16:54.360
And I've said this before, the Huntl era is more experimental.

382
00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:59.220
It does more interesting things and and and especially under

383
00:16:59.220 --> 00:16:59.700
verity.

384
00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:01.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

385
00:17:01.259 --> 00:17:01.679
Yeah, yeah.

386
00:17:01.740 --> 00:17:04.680
I think really that's the reason it's still going, it's very.

387
00:17:04.740 --> 00:17:05.519
Yeah I agree.

388
00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:10.079
Yeah, because Verity did so many different things in 2 years.

389
00:17:10.500 --> 00:17:15.180
There was never really an opportunity in those 1st 2 years to sum

390
00:17:15.180 --> 00:17:16.859
up the program in one sentence.

391
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:17.160
No.

392
00:17:17.220 --> 00:17:20.099
It had a sense of mystery, didn't it?

393
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:23.160
And it kept supplying that when you thought you knew what it was

394
00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:25.799
or when the production team had made a decision and the doctor is

395
00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:26.460
this sort of person.

396
00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:28.799
They would jump again.

397
00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:33.359
It was a risk taking thing every, every, really every story.

398
00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:36.480
That's why that's why watching them in isolation or seeing them as

399
00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:38.759
we've seen them compared to, as you were saying, in isolation

400
00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:41.400
through the wonderful gift of the randomiser.

401
00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:48.660
So... is a very different thing because the beauty of it is that

402
00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:51.720
when you see the time meddler is actually really startling and

403
00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:55.259
extraordinary in between the stories that says, coming at the end

404
00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:55.680
of a season.

405
00:17:55.740 --> 00:17:56.460
Wow.

406
00:17:56.579 --> 00:17:57.480
I didn't expect that.

407
00:17:57.539 --> 00:17:58.380
I didn't expect this.

408
00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:00.359
I didn't expect you. expect a week before.

409
00:18:00.420 --> 00:18:05.039
There's a freshness that we still get in our jaded, oversaturated

410
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:07.200
commercially concentrated times.

411
00:18:07.259 --> 00:18:11.579
We just get that this is, it may be simpler, but there's a lot of

412
00:18:11.579 --> 00:18:14.640
you know, a lot of complexity in that simplicity.

413
00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:15.960
I just want to shoot myself for saying that.

414
00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:18.299
But there is.

415
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:22.680
There's a, and I actually find that something that's, I, we get

416
00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:26.160
that they were on a knife edge and that they were taking a risk

417
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:28.380
every time and that I think makes it slightly more compelling to

418
00:18:28.380 --> 00:18:28.619
watch.

419
00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:32.279
That's compared to the later 60s when they were working towards

420
00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:34.559
overseas sales and making it more formulaic.

421
00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:37.619
And it just becomes a bit, it's the way of doing TV.

422
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:39.180
Back then.

423
00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:42.240
What I think is so interesting is that I've really got, and it's

424
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:46.440
probably come across just a whole flavour of the times and how

425
00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:50.099
quickly they were a changing Mr. Dylan at the time.

426
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:52.259
Every few months. totally different.

427
00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:56.880
And the pop music reflects it and the the politics reflects that

428
00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:59.279
the empire was falling apart. technology was coming in.

429
00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:00.299
We had a space program.

430
00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:03.180
We had a cold war that was spinning apparently out of control.

431
00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:05.279
Lots of different things all happening at once.

432
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:07.740
And the show miraculously somehow.

433
00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:09.779
For me reflects it better than anything else.

434
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:14.220
Perhaps because of its consistency that it was there for so long.

435
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:18.000
But I just think it was responsive and maybe unconsciously, but it

436
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:21.839
really, it really does show as a shadow mirror of the time.

437
00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:23.339
I get out of it.

438
00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:25.140
Did you expect that going into this journey?

439
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:26.700
I really didn't know.

440
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:30.960
Is that your greatest revelation in terms of what you've

441
00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:32.339
discovered about Doctor Who?

442
00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:35.339
My greatest surprise is that there's more to discover.

443
00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:37.799
I really didn't think there'd be anything else in it.

444
00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:41.640
I remember you saying that when we started it. like behind the

445
00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:42.059
scenes.

446
00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:47.519
I remember you saying, no, I remember you saying to me, you know

447
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:50.279
this is going to be fun, but do you think we're going to turn up

448
00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:53.640
stuff that people don't know or haven't thought about?

449
00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:54.299
Yeah.

450
00:19:54.299 --> 00:19:58.140
And I think you've turned up most of it because you do all the

451
00:19:58.140 --> 00:19:59.460
research in historic.

452
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.640
Yeah, it's also just I'm surprised to find that these things are

453
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:06.720
triggered in my re-listening or reviewing. or rereading.

454
00:20:06.779 --> 00:20:10.559
I like to sort of come to it as I did, like at the time, as I did

455
00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:12.960
as a child, which is through the target books.

456
00:20:13.019 --> 00:20:15.779
So I'll have a quick look at the TV that's the target books of the

457
00:20:15.779 --> 00:20:16.859
go to for me.

458
00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:19.140
Do you still have a collection?

459
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:19.619
everything.

460
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:23.640
Gary Russell's collection of every known language in Christendom

461
00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:24.299
but and beyond.

462
00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:26.880
But heathen languages too, doesn't he?

463
00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:30.359
And have the target...

464
00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:31.619
Do you know how?

465
00:20:31.619 --> 00:20:33.180
I'm missing 2 of them.

466
00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:33.900
Really?

467
00:20:34.019 --> 00:20:37.859
Yeah, I'm missing the arc and I'm missing a celestial time maker.

468
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:38.759
I thought I could go.

469
00:20:38.819 --> 00:20:39.599
Well, my father.

470
00:20:39.900 --> 00:20:42.000
Well, we know that one of them people will remain missing.

471
00:20:42.059 --> 00:20:44.579
So what's your greatest revelation?

472
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:47.579
For me, the revelation is just learning the shape of the show, and

473
00:20:47.579 --> 00:20:50.700
it is that thing which you'll get anyone would get if you were to

474
00:20:50.700 --> 00:20:55.200
watch it in order rather than watch it as, you know, using the

475
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:56.759
randomiser, as Richard said.

476
00:20:56.819 --> 00:21:01.680
And so seeing how, sort of, it's tentative in season one, but kind

477
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:04.980
of brilliant and then in season 2 it's really confident and it

478
00:21:04.980 --> 00:21:06.240
really hits its stride.

479
00:21:06.299 --> 00:21:07.619
It's, you know, just tremendous.

480
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:12.119
And then series 3 is, you know, full of production problems and

481
00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:15.180
it's flailing and it's kind of going nasty and it's not sure what

482
00:21:15.180 --> 00:21:15.660
it's doing.

483
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:19.079
And then season 4 is sort of trying to get back on track.

484
00:21:19.380 --> 00:21:24.059
Season 5 is settling into a sort of terrible formula and season 6

485
00:21:24.059 --> 00:21:26.460
is sort of breaking free from that.

486
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:29.099
I didn't really know that narrative before.

487
00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:33.779
And that's terribly oversimplified, obviously, but learning that

488
00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:37.980
and just getting to know what all the characters were like.

489
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:42.059
You know, I'd seen Vicki in, you know, a handful of things, I'd

490
00:21:42.059 --> 00:21:45.299
seen Dodo in the ark and that's about it, old war machines, half

491
00:21:45.299 --> 00:21:47.279
of war machines, poor old Sow.

492
00:21:50.460 --> 00:21:54.119
And I really think that's going to still be in it.

493
00:21:54.180 --> 00:21:56.460
Well, there's, I was listening.

494
00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:59.579
There's no there's no there's no point for me to cut that.

495
00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:03.599
That's all right. talking about Jackie Lane.

496
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:05.880
I'll ejaculate.

497
00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:07.079
I'm just gorgeous.

498
00:22:07.140 --> 00:22:09.539
I'm talking about, I'm talking about Dodo.

499
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:11.339
Do you know what might be fresh and wonderful?

500
00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:12.720
Not at all changing the point.

501
00:22:12.779 --> 00:22:15.720
You know, I'd like to, you know, because I think everyone's

502
00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:18.960
probably hurt us to the point of every family Christmas that

503
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:20.519
they've ever experienced all that again.

504
00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:23.099
Yes, we're recording your sister after Christmas.

505
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:24.660
I'd like to know what toys got out of it.

506
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:29.819
How fantastic to hear a fresh voice. normally my job.

507
00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:34.559
I think it's just that the wonder of the discovery of all these

508
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:37.619
different aspects, especially to the hardcore era and the

509
00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:39.900
different characters and the different viewpoints that you've...

510
00:22:40.019 --> 00:22:41.519
I love.

511
00:22:41.579 --> 00:22:43.440
I really, really love him.

512
00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:45.000
I just think he's glorious.

513
00:22:45.059 --> 00:22:47.160
I do not to, yeah.

514
00:22:47.220 --> 00:22:51.480
I mean, I think Pat's tremendous, but I think The freshness of the

515
00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:55.380
storms in our area and the fact that you're going historical and

516
00:22:55.380 --> 00:22:57.779
then they're trying some sort of different sci-fi that's not

517
00:22:57.779 --> 00:23:00.779
embedded into a Doctor Who pattern. is just wondrous.

518
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:03.539
And you know, sometimes it doesn't succeed, but they're in there

519
00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:04.559
giving it their rule.

520
00:23:04.619 --> 00:23:09.900
I mean, you suddenly get into Patrick's era and the moon-based

521
00:23:09.900 --> 00:23:12.420
macro terror suddenly hears the formula that we're now going

522
00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:17.880
through and for me, I find that like Nathan in season 5 very

523
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:18.779
tiresome at times.

524
00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:22.019
I'm going to take a drink.

525
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:28.920
Patrick's mesmerising watch, you know, he is, isn't he?

526
00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:32.039
That you've challenged me on different things to go back and look

527
00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:33.960
at things like sense rights.

528
00:23:34.019 --> 00:23:38.640
And I will go back now and look at Victoria and her Jack to see

529
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:39.059
what.

530
00:23:39.059 --> 00:23:41.339
She's like...

531
00:23:41.339 --> 00:23:43.319
How poor is she's served by the script?

532
00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:43.920
She's terrible.

533
00:23:47.460 --> 00:23:50.880
I've seen those stories out of sequence, different ones out of

534
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:52.680
sequences, and I just loathe the character.

535
00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:57.539
But when any of the world turned up and there's that moment where

536
00:23:57.539 --> 00:24:00.299
she almost slaps the doctor, I suddenly jumped out of my skins and

537
00:24:00.299 --> 00:24:01.619
went, hang on, what's this?

538
00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:05.940
She is my least favourite companion of the trout era.

539
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:08.099
That's a fair call, too, that she's so poor.

540
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:08.880
I'm sorry.

541
00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:10.079
If I might jump off from there.

542
00:24:10.140 --> 00:24:12.720
I'm getting back to a place where you asked earlier, sort of what

543
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:14.460
have we discovered about the 60s.

544
00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:17.519
What I've really taken away from this is, you know, for years

545
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:21.359
we've heard Carol Anne Ford, talking about how poorly served Susan

546
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:23.579
was, and that's why she left, because she was promised she'd be

547
00:24:23.579 --> 00:24:26.940
like an Avengers girl with fabulous psychic powers...

548
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:30.000
I thought more like chocky or more like one of the, yeah

549
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:30.599
surprise.

550
00:24:30.660 --> 00:24:31.559
Cuckoo.

551
00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:32.519
Yeah exactly.

552
00:24:32.579 --> 00:24:34.920
And in between a person and something we don't know anything

553
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:35.220
about.

554
00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:40.200
She actually references Kathy Gale was said to her as, this will

555
00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:41.339
be a touchstone of your character.

556
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:42.720
You'll be like Kathy Gale.

557
00:24:42.779 --> 00:24:44.039
And of course, what he got is very different.

558
00:24:44.099 --> 00:24:47.279
Now, the thing is, the mould, which is. you say that too, because

559
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:52.079
the dramatist, you know, that, that, on a black one puts the drama

560
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:54.539
that Anna Blackman puts into her character.

561
00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:55.980
It's not that she's just cool.

562
00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:59.099
She's a little bit edgy and if you watch those black and white

563
00:24:59.099 --> 00:25:01.920
avengers and she kind of, it's always pitched.

564
00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:04.319
Now you say that, I can actually see something where Carol I

565
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:06.480
thought it was coming from because it's always a little bit over

566
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:09.299
the, you know, I mean, it looks kind of over the top and a Doctor

567
00:25:09.299 --> 00:25:11.940
Who situation, but in the Avengers.

568
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:15.960
Kathy's always pushing against what she sees as Steve's complete

569
00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:17.700
effrontery and disinteresting humanity.

570
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:20.819
And yeah, that's an interesting take.

571
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:26.759
Now, the thing is, Susan is say far weaker than the Mickey as a

572
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:27.119
character.

573
00:25:27.180 --> 00:25:30.960
You know, don't we don't really see as much of dodo to comment.

574
00:25:31.019 --> 00:25:32.579
But Susan is...

575
00:25:32.579 --> 00:25:33.180
She's terrible.

576
00:25:34.859 --> 00:25:41.579
In terms of the power of the character. both in narrative and in

577
00:25:41.579 --> 00:25:42.960
what they're given to do.

578
00:25:43.019 --> 00:25:47.940
Susan is the weakest, but really it's not, it's not the role of

579
00:25:47.940 --> 00:25:49.319
the companion who changes.

580
00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:52.680
So what I've really discovered, is the strength, particularly of

581
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:55.859
the female characters comes from the performance of the artist.

582
00:25:55.920 --> 00:26:01.319
And that is in itself imbued directly by the interest and

583
00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:05.339
attention paid by the director and the strength of the producers

584
00:26:05.339 --> 00:26:06.960
in backing up the original intent.

585
00:26:07.019 --> 00:26:07.559
Absolutely.

586
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:09.180
Because with Victoria, for instance.

587
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:11.400
A lot of what I said about Victorian, you picked up on this

588
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:11.700
Nathan.

589
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.420
What I was reading was not the script, it was not the text, it was

590
00:26:15.420 --> 00:26:18.180
the subtext that Deborah Watley put into the performance, because

591
00:26:18.180 --> 00:26:22.619
Deborah Watley... seemed to look at what was on the page and find

592
00:26:22.619 --> 00:26:25.680
a way to play it where she could be scared, but she could be

593
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:27.660
determined and intelligent at the same time.

594
00:26:27.779 --> 00:26:32.460
And we forget she'd had more onscreen experience and theatre

595
00:26:32.460 --> 00:26:34.980
experience than any of the other younger actors up to that point.

596
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:36.720
As you say, she was a prestige.

597
00:26:36.779 --> 00:26:37.559
Yeah, apparently.

598
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:38.579
Prestige casting.

599
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:41.519
And really why this is so important to me is outside of Doctor

600
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:43.980
Who's Science Fiction, my other passion is video gaming.

601
00:26:44.039 --> 00:26:47.519
And there has recently been a scandal in video gaming known as

602
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:50.759
Gamer Gate, which some people claim, oh, it's about ethics in

603
00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:51.660
video gaming.

604
00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:52.799
Yeah, you may not hope about this.

605
00:26:52.859 --> 00:26:58.380
But what it's really about is Women in video game journalism, video

606
00:26:58.380 --> 00:27:01.259
game, development, being treated horribly.

607
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:02.759
We are talking.

608
00:27:02.819 --> 00:27:07.440
There's one called Anita Sakesian, who does this amazing series of

609
00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:10.619
videos about the role of women in video games as characters.

610
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:12.119
I'll put them in the show notes.

611
00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:13.259
I've actually watched a bunch of them.

612
00:27:13.319 --> 00:27:14.339
I think they're fascinating.

613
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:17.160
I'm not a gamer, but I think they're pretty good media criticism

614
00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:18.720
and they're she's fabulous.

615
00:27:18.779 --> 00:27:19.440
I really like it.

616
00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:20.160
I love to read that.

617
00:27:20.220 --> 00:27:23.819
And what is great about her videos is that...

618
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:26.759
While she is criticising and judging.

619
00:27:26.819 --> 00:27:28.380
She is very objective in her judgement.

620
00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:31.680
And she says of herself, you know, I love video games.

621
00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:34.079
I love Mario Games, but they have very questionable sexual

622
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:37.440
politics and it's apparent that she loves them too, that she comes

623
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:39.359
at it from a sort of game's perspective.

624
00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:41.279
And you know, what she gets out of this.

625
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:44.400
As well as lots of people liking her.

626
00:27:44.460 --> 00:27:49.019
She gets a small selection of people, Tweeting her death threats

627
00:27:49.019 --> 00:27:52.380
posting her address and contact details online and asking people

628
00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:54.779
to go around and sort her out.

629
00:27:54.839 --> 00:27:57.420
And this is for excitement.

630
00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:00.000
Oh, but, you know, this is quite serious.

631
00:28:00.059 --> 00:28:03.960
And even though it is a small amount, Once someone posts your

632
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:06.779
address online, says where your partner works, says where your

633
00:28:06.779 --> 00:28:09.359
child goes to school, has happened to some women in the gaming

634
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:09.839
industry.

635
00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:11.400
This is why.

636
00:28:12.299 --> 00:28:15.839
Representation of female characters is so important to me and why

637
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:18.900
I've been looking at it because this other world that I love.

638
00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:24.480
People are trying to keep women down and I'm always, I'm always

639
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:28.559
very self-conscious about talking about how women are represented

640
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:31.380
in doctor because I'm worried it'll come off as mansplaining.

641
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:33.539
You know, I'm a man talking about women's issues.

642
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:35.759
It's extraordinary we should even have to raise it.

643
00:28:35.819 --> 00:28:38.099
Yeah, I think that's it.

644
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:39.299
I'll let alone that.

645
00:28:39.299 --> 00:28:41.039
I raise it because I have to.

646
00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:44.220
I hate having to raise it. isn't she, isn't it?

647
00:28:44.339 --> 00:28:47.099
I mean, and let alone the queer politics, which of course only

648
00:28:47.099 --> 00:28:50.579
exists because and feminism, which only exists because of black

649
00:28:50.579 --> 00:28:54.839
politics, you know, as we talked about this, It's actually the

650
00:28:54.839 --> 00:28:59.099
equality, right, Super Malcolm X, and Martin Luther King and those

651
00:28:59.099 --> 00:29:04.440
fantastic riots in Chicago in the early 60s that created feminism

652
00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:07.259
and are on the back of that queer politic dynamics.

653
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:10.019
So, yeah, there's a great causal loop, I'm up between them all.

654
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:13.920
So do we think that it gets better over the 60s?

655
00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:16.559
The representation of women in Doctor Who?

656
00:29:16.619 --> 00:29:17.460
I do think it does.

657
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:22.200
I mean, I think it gets better from when Susan is right now, and I

658
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:26.519
don't quite not because of Susan, but I do think Vicki is treated

659
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.359
better in the story, but I also think Maureen O'Brien realises the

660
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:33.000
part is limited and puts in the strength where she can.

661
00:29:33.059 --> 00:29:36.660
Whereas I think Carol Anne Ford was perhaps more expecting the

662
00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:39.059
strength to be given to her from the script.

663
00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:42.000
That's a really great way of looking at it, maybe Carol Anne's own

664
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.660
take on it, and within the production crew, was more complaintive

665
00:29:45.660 --> 00:29:47.579
and combative and disappointed.

666
00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:50.880
Whereas most you're saying, Lauren O'Brien is seeing it as a

667
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:53.460
jobbing thing and she didn't see this as a great opportunity.

668
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:55.920
She just saw this as something I'll do and do and get on with it.

669
00:29:55.980 --> 00:29:59.519
And as she said, most of her time I spent nursemaid in Billy and

670
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:04.440
he's constant states of, of, you know, discomfort with the, with

671
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:06.420
the production team once there at the left.

672
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:12.119
Plus, you know, we saw the 60s with Barbara, who can who can

673
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:14.940
baffle Daleks with historical techno battle.

674
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:16.079
Thank you for bringing her on.

675
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:19.740
And we end up with Zoe, who can blow up a computer by talking to

676
00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:24.000
it and take out an entire cyberfleet without 3 missiles. beat up

677
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:24.539
the carcass.

678
00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:25.799
And beat up the carcass.

679
00:30:25.859 --> 00:30:27.480
That is a fabulous spicy.

680
00:30:27.539 --> 00:30:30.359
You know, every move she does, she throws it back over her

681
00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:33.000
shoulder, a little quip off, lesson 72.

682
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:38.039
All right, so we're moving on talking about companions.

683
00:30:38.099 --> 00:30:40.200
I'm going to ask the obvious question.

684
00:30:40.259 --> 00:30:41.819
Who was the best companion of the series?

685
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:43.200
Barbara, Barbara.

686
00:30:43.259 --> 00:30:45.480
And it comes right back to what you were just saying.

687
00:30:45.539 --> 00:30:49.200
Maybe the setup of the character of reinstating the lost

688
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:52.079
granddaughter every time, which is why it's wrong to snog them.

689
00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:57.599
She's not, she's there as a representative, as an Adam Brant of

690
00:30:57.599 --> 00:30:58.859
your lost granddaughter.

691
00:30:58.920 --> 00:30:59.519
Stop it.

692
00:30:59.579 --> 00:31:02.279
I didn't have a few lots of fine doctors the other week and you

693
00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:05.519
should see how Carol Anne Thorn and Peter Davidson look each other

694
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:06.059
up and now.

695
00:31:06.059 --> 00:31:10.079
That's all I'm saying.

696
00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:14.940
That's that movie story along.

697
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:17.819
That's the greatest loss of the 60s that they got rid of the mum

698
00:31:17.819 --> 00:31:18.240
character.

699
00:31:18.299 --> 00:31:21.839
They got rid of the middle theme, the middle-aged, I don't know

700
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:25.079
what to say that term, but the older female companion, who lent

701
00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:30.180
purpose and humanity, David Hume levels of humanity to the whole

702
00:31:30.180 --> 00:31:30.420
thing.

703
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.579
The little girl is fine, but you want the balance.

704
00:31:32.579 --> 00:31:38.339
We've actually lost a whole portion of representation of women in

705
00:31:38.339 --> 00:31:43.500
this by losing any woman over just post pubescent. that must

706
00:31:43.500 --> 00:31:49.559
inform in some way the revival, the 2005 revival, because I think

707
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:54.539
that one of the best things about seasons, your series one and two

708
00:31:55.259 --> 00:31:58.859
is Camille Kaburi's character Jackie.

709
00:31:58.920 --> 00:32:01.980
And and she, she's mumsy.

710
00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:05.759
And literally, I mean, the companion's mother, which we've never

711
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:10.619
had before, and the 1st flirtation on New Who is not between the

712
00:32:10.619 --> 00:32:11.880
companion and the doctor.

713
00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:15.539
I'm in my dressing gown.

714
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:18.900
Sorry, I wasn't quoting that.

715
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:24.059
Not only that, but if you look at the new series, the most popular

716
00:32:24.059 --> 00:32:28.380
series, critically, and in terms of ratings.

717
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:33.180
Series 4 with Catherine Tate, who is the most popular big Finnish

718
00:32:33.180 --> 00:32:37.140
companion, Dr. Evelyn is played by the very sad, late Maggie

719
00:32:37.140 --> 00:32:37.559
Sage.

720
00:32:37.619 --> 00:32:40.440
I was just going to say, isn't Collins fantastic in those?

721
00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:43.680
I've really come to admire and respect Colin Baker because of

722
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:45.539
those and how poorly he was served.

723
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:46.859
And what do you think, Billy, again?

724
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:49.799
I can see where Colin was trying to come from, which I didn't get

725
00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:51.599
in the 80s because I hadn't seen a Billy one.

726
00:32:51.660 --> 00:32:54.660
It is also that Billy is actually really rather sweet and silly

727
00:32:54.660 --> 00:32:56.880
and funny and childlike as well.

728
00:32:56.940 --> 00:32:58.200
Col is funny.

729
00:32:58.259 --> 00:33:01.859
I think he's probably the, as long of all the actors, the wittiest

730
00:33:01.859 --> 00:33:04.559
and most, most numerous in their offs, right?

731
00:33:04.619 --> 00:33:07.380
It's that lovely monologue in the 2 doctors when he thinks the

732
00:33:07.380 --> 00:33:10.079
universe is going to end and all he can think about is there won't

733
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:10.920
be any more butterflies.

734
00:33:10.980 --> 00:33:13.859
You know, he does get lovely little moments.

735
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:15.059
The man himself is great.

736
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:16.079
I come back too with you.

737
00:33:16.140 --> 00:33:18.299
You've got to have directors and production stuff and script

738
00:33:18.299 --> 00:33:20.880
editors that like you and care about your character because

739
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:23.400
otherwise there's not much an actor can do to read the lines.

740
00:33:23.460 --> 00:33:27.720
All right, it's time for a snog, Mario, void question.

741
00:33:27.779 --> 00:33:29.759
This is Nathan.

742
00:33:29.819 --> 00:33:31.500
Don't know Susan Victoria.

743
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:34.440
Dodo, Susan Victoria.

744
00:33:34.500 --> 00:33:35.579
So very avoid.

745
00:33:35.700 --> 00:33:37.440
Well...

746
00:33:37.740 --> 00:33:41.940
I think I'd have to marry Victoria because...

747
00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:42.480
She's rich.

748
00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:43.559
Well.

749
00:33:43.619 --> 00:33:47.759
She's got that big house, servants, they make those puddings, you

750
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:51.119
know, like...

751
00:33:51.180 --> 00:33:53.640
So I'd avoid dodo, obviously.

752
00:33:54.660 --> 00:33:56.400
All costs.

753
00:33:56.460 --> 00:34:02.339
And so I would have to close my eyes, think of think of morphism

754
00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:05.640
and snob, snob, Susan, I'm afraid.

755
00:34:05.700 --> 00:34:07.380
Close your eyes, think of Barbara, really?

756
00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:09.300
Yes, that's what I do.

757
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:12.539
Maybe if I could get Susan to wear a cardigan.

758
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:13.440
Yeah there you go.

759
00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:14.219
Yeah, okay.

760
00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:14.880
No problem.

761
00:34:14.940 --> 00:34:15.659
Red shit.

762
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:20.340
Sog marry, avoid.

763
00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:24.000
John Wiles, Ennis Lloyd or Peter Bryant.

764
00:34:24.059 --> 00:34:25.920
Good God.

765
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:29.400
Well, I think you'd actually have to snob Peter Bryant because he

766
00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:30.960
had the biggest drinks cabinet.

767
00:34:32.099 --> 00:34:36.059
And there'd just be he'd be a great party.

768
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:38.820
And it's interesting that Brian, well, you know, Bryant's the

769
00:34:38.820 --> 00:34:39.719
reason Pat left.

770
00:34:39.780 --> 00:34:40.619
We've talked about that.

771
00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:43.019
It's open knowledge now, so it's okay to speak about it.

772
00:34:43.139 --> 00:34:46.619
Anyway, that's a sad thing, but he also is, it was incredibly

773
00:34:46.619 --> 00:34:49.260
sensitive and when Witty and the reason he got those jobs and what

774
00:34:49.260 --> 00:34:51.599
we can see of other people talking about his work, he's really

775
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:54.599
good, but, you know, a lot of creative people are also pretty

776
00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:55.500
destructive.

777
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:56.820
So you'd be great to party with.

778
00:34:56.880 --> 00:34:58.440
Um, I don't know.

779
00:34:58.500 --> 00:34:59.340
Does that mean kiss?

780
00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:03.960
I think it does John Miles, I just look at what he did and the

781
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:07.079
decisions he made and when we go to, you know, admirant racism.

782
00:35:07.139 --> 00:35:07.860
He's our go to.

783
00:35:07.860 --> 00:35:10.619
And we blame him for being, you know, this is the South African

784
00:35:10.619 --> 00:35:11.340
thing at the time.

785
00:35:11.340 --> 00:35:12.599
That was all changing and what.

786
00:35:12.659 --> 00:35:17.280
But he also did a theatre for the deaf children and actually did a

787
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:17.940
lot for people.

788
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:22.079
As it turns out, you know, that we're less fortunate, but he's

789
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:26.760
actually more more interesting and there's more side stream like

790
00:35:26.760 --> 00:35:29.639
everybody, I guess, but then you've got, but I'm certainly not

791
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:30.179
going to marry.

792
00:35:30.179 --> 00:35:31.559
We're heading towards a boy.

793
00:35:31.619 --> 00:35:33.360
I'm not going to marry him.

794
00:35:33.420 --> 00:35:35.340
And the other one you said was in as Lloyd.

795
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:40.619
I see of the of the 3 wonderful choices you've handed over.

796
00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:45.539
Such a God, a smoggish build, that one would make that star that

797
00:35:45.539 --> 00:35:45.840
day.

798
00:35:45.900 --> 00:35:51.960
Um, Innes Lloyd seems to have less excuse than any of the others

799
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:53.699
but the decisions that were made.

800
00:35:53.699 --> 00:35:58.739
And his treatment of senior cast from what we know now.

801
00:35:58.800 --> 00:35:59.579
I'm really...

802
00:35:59.579 --> 00:36:02.579
See, my heart goes to Billy.

803
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:05.940
So anyone who treated Billy Pauly gets short shrift from me.

804
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:08.699
Maybe you could marry Innes Lloyd and just make his life a

805
00:36:08.699 --> 00:36:09.059
mission.

806
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:13.079
No, I actually think I think Enos, I'm sorry, but like wage level

807
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:13.800
psychological.

808
00:36:13.860 --> 00:36:15.119
That's been engulfing.

809
00:36:15.179 --> 00:36:15.599
That's it.

810
00:36:15.659 --> 00:36:18.059
The trash compact is coming closer. and you're sitting in the

811
00:36:18.059 --> 00:36:19.800
Buick. it's, you know, Cheers.

812
00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:22.079
Thanks for the memories, but see you.

813
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:25.559
John Wiles, I think, is actually a better and more interesting

814
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:26.940
person than he was.

815
00:36:26.940 --> 00:36:29.400
And he, I think he later said, it's an indeed WN.

816
00:36:29.460 --> 00:36:33.719
But yeah, he felt he was pushing against, you know, she'll, you

817
00:36:33.719 --> 00:36:35.940
know, she'll wait with the BBC and the things he wanted to do.

818
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.760
Wasn't his classic story, the one he wanted to make the arc?

819
00:36:38.820 --> 00:36:40.980
Wasn't that his favourite?

820
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:42.059
Yeah, John Wales, wasn't that?

821
00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:42.960
was his fantasy story.

822
00:36:43.019 --> 00:36:46.260
And it's actually a great, you know, it goes back to the Halcyon

823
00:36:46.260 --> 00:36:47.639
days of SS.

824
00:36:47.699 --> 00:36:50.699
Yeah, I think I think Wales was a lot more interesting than he was

825
00:36:50.699 --> 00:36:51.480
able to get across.

826
00:36:51.539 --> 00:36:52.739
I probably end up marrying him.

827
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:56.219
I'm not saying it's good. more of a Tom and Lala marriage than

828
00:36:56.219 --> 00:36:58.079
Lala and Richmond marriage.

829
00:36:58.139 --> 00:37:00.179
So you're marrying you're marrying...

830
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:01.019
Oh, marry wise.

831
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:02.039
I think he's more interesting.

832
00:37:02.099 --> 00:37:03.000
Lloyd has to die.

833
00:37:03.059 --> 00:37:03.539
Sorry, sorry.

834
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:04.380
Who's avoided?

835
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:06.539
I don't definitely have a party with Peter Bryant.

836
00:37:07.260 --> 00:37:10.559
Wow, I'm surprised by those.

837
00:37:10.619 --> 00:37:11.760
Brandon.

838
00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:12.360
Oh, dear.

839
00:37:12.420 --> 00:37:15.000
So, Mari avoid, heart or Trouton or Cushing?

840
00:37:15.059 --> 00:37:15.719
Wow.

841
00:37:16.019 --> 00:37:18.000
Oh, I'm sorry.

842
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:20.460
It's just pull the gravy overboard.

843
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:21.599
This is going.

844
00:37:21.659 --> 00:37:25.320
Actually, I mean, this is surprisingly simple for me.

845
00:37:25.380 --> 00:37:28.139
I'd married Peter Cushion because he's got such a wonderful voice

846
00:37:28.139 --> 00:37:30.360
and by all accounts had a very gentle nature.

847
00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:32.280
A really fristly moustache.

848
00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:34.619
I thought I was an Edmond Warwick.

849
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:38.579
We're getting it.

850
00:37:38.579 --> 00:37:39.539
We're all adopters.

851
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:42.239
So we're getting ahead of ourselves with that silver fox.

852
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:44.460
So, right.

853
00:37:45.059 --> 00:37:47.460
Snog, it would have to be Patrick.

854
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:49.739
So I would snog Patty.

855
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:52.019
Because he's kind of really well practised sort of thing.

856
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:53.820
I expect he's got mad skills.

857
00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:58.920
Bet teeth and bits. the criteria Richard was going for, he'd be

858
00:37:58.920 --> 00:37:59.880
the most fun to party with.

859
00:37:59.940 --> 00:38:01.260
I'll play all accounts.

860
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:03.059
So it'll be Snow Patrick.

861
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:06.599
Mary Cushing, avoid Hartnall, but only by the...

862
00:38:06.659 --> 00:38:08.039
Only by the whole.

863
00:38:08.099 --> 00:38:10.260
If, you know, if it was strong married, take out for a nice

864
00:38:10.260 --> 00:38:10.679
lunch.

865
00:38:11.820 --> 00:38:14.940
That part was to be taken out for a nice lunch.

866
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:16.920
Okay, Nathan, you ready?

867
00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:22.260
The singing sands, the screaming jungle or the bell of doom.

868
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:22.920
Wow.

869
00:38:22.980 --> 00:38:25.980
Oh, God, what's the bell do?

870
00:38:26.099 --> 00:38:28.320
Is that from the smugglers?

871
00:38:28.380 --> 00:38:28.739
No.

872
00:38:29.579 --> 00:38:30.659
Which one?

873
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:32.280
Oh, my God.

874
00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:38.280
The same sense that's from Marco Molo.

875
00:38:38.820 --> 00:38:42.119
The screaming jungle is, well, that's that married.

876
00:38:42.179 --> 00:38:45.420
Toby Hader has just thrown his iPod across the room in disgust

877
00:38:45.420 --> 00:38:47.099
again because you didn't know.

878
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:48.539
I didn't know the episode titles.

879
00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:50.039
So, Jeremy Motion.

880
00:38:50.099 --> 00:38:51.300
I think it's awesome.

881
00:38:51.420 --> 00:38:56.280
So Snog, in the sense that it would be fun.

882
00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:00.300
I think it has to be the screaming jungle, I hope it's not because

883
00:39:00.300 --> 00:39:01.320
I just love it today.

884
00:39:01.380 --> 00:39:02.579
It's so fun.

885
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:05.639
It is so fun, but I kind of recognise that it's a bit cramp and

886
00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:07.619
perhaps not the basis for a long-term relationship.

887
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:08.400
Okay.

888
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:12.300
Marco Polo is the 1st doctor who story that I watched exclusively

889
00:39:12.300 --> 00:39:14.099
for the podcast that I'd never seen before.

890
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:16.980
And I was astounded by how much I liked it.

891
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:20.280
You know, I think it is really good and it's sort of worthy and

892
00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:20.519
stuff.

893
00:39:20.579 --> 00:39:21.599
So I'd marry that.

894
00:39:21.659 --> 00:39:23.519
And then the bell of doom.

895
00:39:23.579 --> 00:39:28.320
I mean, I have to say that, and I was speaking to friend of the

896
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:30.960
podcast, Peter Griffiths, and he concurs with me.

897
00:39:31.019 --> 00:39:34.679
I just think the message is a low Voltosh, and I will die before I

898
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:35.639
ever see it again, I think.

899
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:36.719
Richard.

900
00:39:36.780 --> 00:39:38.400
Stop marrying a boy.

901
00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:39.420
Ian?

902
00:39:39.659 --> 00:39:41.219
Ben.

903
00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:42.840
Jamie.

904
00:39:42.900 --> 00:39:45.059
It's not a real contest. is it?

905
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:46.139
Where's Stephen in that?

906
00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:47.699
Well, what are the name?

907
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:50.340
Well, I've been.

908
00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:56.460
The most pneumatic of the...

909
00:39:56.579 --> 00:39:58.260
He's the only one who gets his knocks out as well.

910
00:39:58.320 --> 00:39:59.820
I think it's a win.

911
00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:00.599
Smugglers.

912
00:40:00.659 --> 00:40:00.900
Yeah.

913
00:40:00.900 --> 00:40:02.219
He gets...

914
00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:03.119
That's a very blurry.

915
00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:07.380
A couple of very blurry toes now, but do carry on...

916
00:40:07.380 --> 00:40:09.300
She's, I'll toss him up to you when I'm done.

917
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:11.340
I think he's the best actor.

918
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:14.820
And I know I tend to like to find the pearls in the grit.

919
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:19.139
We don't get to see a lot of Michael Crace's performance in it, but

920
00:40:19.139 --> 00:40:21.719
what he does do, he's really good.

921
00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:25.739
He's the kind of he's the Australian pilot on the moon base, isn't

922
00:40:25.739 --> 00:40:25.920
he?

923
00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:30.000
He's the he's the nictate of early Doctor Who.

924
00:40:30.059 --> 00:40:32.519
He's just, you know, his performance keeps getting cut back.

925
00:40:32.579 --> 00:40:33.480
Ben's gorgeous.

926
00:40:33.539 --> 00:40:34.320
Who wouldn't song him?

927
00:40:34.380 --> 00:40:36.300
I think he's, I think he's interesting and I probably end up

928
00:40:36.300 --> 00:40:37.260
probably sogging him then.

929
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:37.980
Marrying him.

930
00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:38.880
Can I have 2 on the side?

931
00:40:38.940 --> 00:40:40.559
Can I have a Polly?

932
00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:41.579
Why not?

933
00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:46.800
Ian is amazing. and interesting.

934
00:40:46.860 --> 00:40:49.980
I think, I don't know that I don't know political.

935
00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:51.719
Yeah, look, he's certainly old schooler.

936
00:40:51.780 --> 00:40:56.519
I don't have any sort of interest on Ian other than a great deal

937
00:40:56.519 --> 00:40:58.980
of respect, which is probably a perfect marriage, really, because

938
00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:01.500
you get the sex outside of marriage, can't you?

939
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:02.519
Very more than no.

940
00:41:02.579 --> 00:41:05.820
Um, so, Jamie, that's a that's a snog.

941
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:09.539
Somebody.

942
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:10.860
Can you snug them and kill them?

943
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:14.519
It's not an option.

944
00:41:14.579 --> 00:41:17.340
Yeah, look, I love it. you've only got married in a family.

945
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:18.480
Well, I'm sorry.

946
00:41:18.539 --> 00:41:20.880
Okay, Fraser, I think's terrific, but then I've heard his politics

947
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:23.519
and what he says about climate change and how he's in denial about

948
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:23.699
that.

949
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:25.260
I'm sorry. has to die.

950
00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:30.239
Thank you.

951
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:32.579
Brendan.

952
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:34.139
I entered his one.

953
00:41:34.260 --> 00:41:36.300
Well, go for it.

954
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:37.860
Actually, it'd be the same.

955
00:41:38.099 --> 00:41:41.699
I would snog them, Ben would be good for a torrid affair, but

956
00:41:41.699 --> 00:41:43.739
Ian's more stable, so I'd marry Ian.

957
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:46.500
And again, I'm only avoiding Jamie by default, but I still

958
00:41:46.500 --> 00:41:47.280
wouldn't marry Jamie.

959
00:41:47.340 --> 00:41:50.280
Who is the most underrated companion of the 1960s?

960
00:41:50.340 --> 00:41:51.719
Polly for me?

961
00:41:51.780 --> 00:41:55.920
Because there's a there's the joke a few times so Polly put the

962
00:41:55.920 --> 00:41:56.340
kettle on.

963
00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:58.139
It's in at least 2 stories.

964
00:41:58.619 --> 00:42:02.940
In the smugglers, it's directly Polly put the kettle on and in the

965
00:42:02.940 --> 00:42:05.280
moon base, it's go and make them some coffee lighting or

966
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:05.460
something.

967
00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:08.699
But old Polly and Ben, she's actually the stronger, more proactive

968
00:42:08.699 --> 00:42:09.059
character.

969
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:09.659
Yeah.

970
00:42:09.659 --> 00:42:14.639
That is something that really surprised me.

971
00:42:14.699 --> 00:42:15.840
She's amazing in the Highlanders.

972
00:42:15.900 --> 00:42:17.880
She runs that show.

973
00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:18.599
With algae.

974
00:42:18.659 --> 00:42:19.440
She's really good.

975
00:42:19.500 --> 00:42:22.199
Yeah, no, she's the central companion. yeah.

976
00:42:22.260 --> 00:42:25.260
Yeah, and she does all the science-y brain box stuff with the

977
00:42:25.260 --> 00:42:28.260
doctor in the macro terra while Jamie is off in a cave being

978
00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:29.579
terrorised by monsters.

979
00:42:31.380 --> 00:42:33.539
So yeah, I would say Polly's the most underrated.

980
00:42:33.599 --> 00:42:36.300
I think she's only underrated because sadly, there is so much of

981
00:42:36.300 --> 00:42:37.500
her stuff missing.

982
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:40.139
And I think, again, it comes from the actress because if you've

983
00:42:40.139 --> 00:42:44.699
read Anika Will's autobiography, she's an immensely strong person

984
00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:48.840
with just such an amazing life.

985
00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:51.239
She's so...

986
00:42:51.300 --> 00:42:54.900
I mean, I did meet her, like, thanks to Todd.

987
00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:57.420
We talked about our past lives or her past life.

988
00:42:57.480 --> 00:42:58.559
She's just gorgeous.

989
00:42:58.619 --> 00:42:59.340
Absolutely.

990
00:42:59.460 --> 00:43:00.719
She's a warm, generous woman.

991
00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:01.559
Yeah, yeah.

992
00:43:01.619 --> 00:43:03.599
She certainly passes to the left. true.

993
00:43:03.659 --> 00:43:06.659
And for you, who's the most underrated?

994
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:07.500
Can I say Polly too?

995
00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:08.760
Wow.

996
00:43:08.820 --> 00:43:11.039
Yeah, would you, is that what you would expect?

997
00:43:11.099 --> 00:43:12.119
I can't I don't know.

998
00:43:12.179 --> 00:43:13.619
I think Barbara's underrated.

999
00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:16.380
I don't even worship Barbara, to be honest.

1000
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:17.639
I was gonna say that.

1001
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:20.940
No, that's because she's the go-to for me.

1002
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:24.420
And the reason I, I mean, I love Billy, but the reason I watched

1003
00:43:24.420 --> 00:43:27.960
the 60s ones again and started to was because of Jackie Hill.

1004
00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:29.940
And just she makes the whole thing.

1005
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:33.480
When she and Billy are together, you could have just had those 2

1006
00:43:33.480 --> 00:43:36.780
for 4 years and everything would have run smoothly.

1007
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:39.960
Okay, and that beautiful scene in the chase where they're lying

1008
00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:41.460
out in sunbaking.

1009
00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:42.840
That awful noise.

1010
00:43:42.900 --> 00:43:44.760
It's almost cocoital, isn't it?

1011
00:43:44.820 --> 00:43:47.159
They're just having a siggy...

1012
00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:48.719
They're so in love with Bob.

1013
00:43:48.780 --> 00:43:49.320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1014
00:43:49.380 --> 00:43:51.659
Because Billy really was with Jack again.

1015
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:54.780
Narratively, that's why we don't get another older female

1016
00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:57.420
companion for so long because no one can replace Bob.

1017
00:43:57.480 --> 00:44:01.260
So I'm actually thinking that we don't go ahead with the purse we

1018
00:44:01.260 --> 00:44:04.139
are in episode 21 and we're just going to get to the beginning.

1019
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:05.760
The listener would love that.

1020
00:44:05.820 --> 00:44:06.659
They would.

1021
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:07.619
He would.

1022
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:11.280
Richard, the science, Jack.

1023
00:44:11.340 --> 00:44:12.179
Oh, that was mine.

1024
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:12.900
No, that was mine.

1025
00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:13.800
Jacqulyn Hill.

1026
00:44:13.860 --> 00:44:15.960
I think Jacqueline, the reason the show did so well is because

1027
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:19.739
Jacqueline Hill really made that cast cohesive and brought them

1028
00:44:19.739 --> 00:44:23.159
together because, you know, Carol Anne was obviously discontented

1029
00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:24.840
with what was going on and it showed.

1030
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:29.219
Billy was very nervous and that made it really interesting to

1031
00:44:29.219 --> 00:44:30.239
watch him, but you could feel it.

1032
00:44:30.300 --> 00:44:35.820
Ian is very much the male league is always the dullest. every

1033
00:44:35.820 --> 00:44:38.639
writer, the gorbidala said that the most boring person on screen

1034
00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:39.420
is the hero.

1035
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:41.280
They're not that interesting.

1036
00:44:41.340 --> 00:44:44.340
They needed, but and he did a great job, but I don't find him at

1037
00:44:44.340 --> 00:44:45.000
all interesting.

1038
00:44:45.059 --> 00:44:48.239
But Jackie is just so exciting to watch.

1039
00:44:48.300 --> 00:44:50.820
In fact, when Ian is good.

1040
00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:52.679
It's in scenes with Jackie.

1041
00:44:52.739 --> 00:44:53.280
Exactly.

1042
00:44:53.340 --> 00:44:54.539
But when everybody's cooked.

1043
00:44:54.599 --> 00:44:56.519
Billy's had his best with Jacqueline Hill.

1044
00:44:56.579 --> 00:44:57.659
Yeah, I'm quite serious.

1045
00:44:57.659 --> 00:45:00.000
The reason you can see Billy's performance.

1046
00:45:00.059 --> 00:45:03.420
I'm not decaying, but getting more fractious is because he does

1047
00:45:03.420 --> 00:45:04.739
his support net pulling away.

1048
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:08.280
He's a very sensitive man in the times when that could not be

1049
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:09.059
articulated.

1050
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:12.059
He didn't have a language I'm suspecting for being able to talk to

1051
00:45:12.059 --> 00:45:13.559
the producers about how he was feeling.

1052
00:45:13.619 --> 00:45:15.599
He just got cross from what we know.

1053
00:45:15.659 --> 00:45:17.460
And I just think it's so sad.

1054
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:19.800
You're talking about Anaca and how terrific she is and she is.

1055
00:45:19.860 --> 00:45:23.639
But I just wish it would, that everyone involved in the show would

1056
00:45:23.639 --> 00:45:26.039
have been able to have a bit more sympathy for his condition and

1057
00:45:26.039 --> 00:45:29.519
how he's been, he felt, you know, how he'd been let down.

1058
00:45:29.579 --> 00:45:32.760
Because he took it so personally, Carol Ann said, when they left

1059
00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:35.820
he really felt that he was being personally betrayed.

1060
00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:36.960
This was his family.

1061
00:45:37.019 --> 00:45:38.639
His 2nd family.

1062
00:45:38.699 --> 00:45:42.599
Gaitis brings that out really well, like in adventure, in space

1063
00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:43.320
and time.

1064
00:45:43.380 --> 00:45:44.579
Am I getting that in the right order?

1065
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:45.119
Yeah, yes.

1066
00:45:45.179 --> 00:45:48.360
And that was shown here in Australia and boxing day.

1067
00:45:48.360 --> 00:45:50.280
Great to see it.

1068
00:45:50.340 --> 00:45:54.900
And it is, you know, it is really sensitive to Hartnall, who was

1069
00:45:54.900 --> 00:45:56.880
difficult and all of that.

1070
00:45:57.179 --> 00:46:00.480
But I have to sort of believe that the sweetness and the

1071
00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:04.920
childlikeness and all of those characteristics of the doctor has

1072
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:08.699
when his Bill Hartnell, you know, come from somewhere in

1073
00:46:08.699 --> 00:46:09.900
Hartnell's character.

1074
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:12.059
Yeah.

1075
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:15.179
Anyway, we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Barbara.

1076
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:17.099
So you're taking Polly back.

1077
00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:18.239
Yeah, no.

1078
00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:19.739
Okay, see, that was crazy.

1079
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:21.599
I think it was a moment of bad.

1080
00:46:21.659 --> 00:46:23.579
I'd say it's speaking.

1081
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:24.840
Oh, that's interesting.

1082
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:27.239
We do adore Vicky. think she's open.

1083
00:46:27.300 --> 00:46:30.360
I think Barbara is fantastic and Pauline is great.

1084
00:46:30.420 --> 00:46:33.719
I mean, I think and Zoe, but Vicki's the one for me throughout

1085
00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:39.420
what you've discovered and realised where I've totally gone back.

1086
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:41.880
I mean, I used to think that her and Stephen were just these clone

1087
00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:45.179
scipers that we just got them copies of the original crew, which

1088
00:46:45.179 --> 00:46:49.380
you know, you can get from any 1970s, 80s Doctor Who encyclopedia

1089
00:46:49.380 --> 00:46:50.940
of knowledge, but they're not.

1090
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:53.519
You know, I think Maureen and Brian, Vicky just, she just brings

1091
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:53.760
it.

1092
00:46:53.820 --> 00:46:54.960
You know, she's fantastic.

1093
00:46:55.019 --> 00:47:00.239
And I think that Peter Purvis, even when he's served up, The

1094
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:01.380
massacre as a script.

1095
00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:03.659
I think his that's his whole story.

1096
00:47:03.719 --> 00:47:06.300
Yeah, he's there with conviction.

1097
00:47:06.300 --> 00:47:06.960
He's great.

1098
00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:08.280
He holds all together.

1099
00:47:08.340 --> 00:47:11.099
He supports Billy, and the reason it kept going and doing well in

1100
00:47:11.099 --> 00:47:16.079
those stories is because he's, yeah, he's giving Billy a... isn't

1101
00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:16.199
it?

1102
00:47:16.260 --> 00:47:18.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's terrific.

1103
00:47:18.300 --> 00:47:20.820
Do you think that there's any companion that stayed too long?

1104
00:47:20.940 --> 00:47:24.119
Or, and conversely, should have stayed longer.

1105
00:47:24.179 --> 00:47:29.400
We change cars quite regularly in Doctor Who in a sort of an

1106
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:30.059
unusual way.

1107
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:33.179
Like it pretty much changes at the end of every year, doesn't it?

1108
00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:35.880
So the only person who really stays for a very long time.

1109
00:47:35.940 --> 00:47:38.940
Is Stephen in it longer than Barbara Neo?

1110
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:41.639
No, not any longer.

1111
00:47:41.699 --> 00:47:42.119
Yeah.

1112
00:47:42.179 --> 00:47:45.960
Um, the, I mean, the only companion longer than Barbara is.

1113
00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:46.619
Jamie.

1114
00:47:47.579 --> 00:47:48.780
Oh, Jamie stayed too long.

1115
00:47:48.840 --> 00:47:49.139
God.

1116
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:52.679
Well, I would argue the problem isn't so much that you stay too

1117
00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:55.860
long. is it's that the writers didn't write very well for him in

1118
00:47:55.860 --> 00:47:56.400
his 2nd year.

1119
00:47:56.460 --> 00:47:57.179
No, they didn't.

1120
00:47:57.300 --> 00:47:59.280
Do you think he was introduced too soon?

1121
00:47:59.340 --> 00:48:01.079
Do you think there should have been longer we've just spent in

1122
00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:02.039
Poly?

1123
00:48:02.099 --> 00:48:02.579
Yes, definitely.

1124
00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:05.099
Yeah, because it's dunk away from Ben.

1125
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:06.360
It does take away from Ben.

1126
00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:08.940
And as we see in the macroterra, and as you've said, Richard

1127
00:48:08.940 --> 00:48:10.980
Michael Craze was such a brilliant actor.

1128
00:48:11.039 --> 00:48:13.440
So I think if anyone should have stayed longer, Ben and Polly

1129
00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:14.159
should have stayed longer.

1130
00:48:14.219 --> 00:48:16.679
Well, you have that thing, don't you, where you would have loved

1131
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:19.619
Ben and Polly for a year with Hartnall?

1132
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:21.239
Yeah, that's great.

1133
00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:24.059
And with maybe Verity Back, just to give him support.

1134
00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:25.920
And he was ill, but he wasn't that ill.

1135
00:48:25.980 --> 00:48:26.579
Yeah.

1136
00:48:26.699 --> 00:48:28.860
It was yeah, it was just his frustration.

1137
00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:32.340
Yeah, if they had written the stories like the smugglers, which

1138
00:48:32.340 --> 00:48:37.380
divided up the action between the 3 leads rather than it just

1139
00:48:37.380 --> 00:48:40.320
being mostly hard on you cut to the companions occasionally.

1140
00:48:40.380 --> 00:48:42.420
Yeah, we could have had another year with Billy, I think.

1141
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:45.599
So you think cartonal, if you hadn't been or whatever, could have

1142
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:47.039
stayed till the end of season four?

1143
00:48:47.099 --> 00:48:51.480
Can you imagine what that would have been like with the mod young

1144
00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:51.960
couple?

1145
00:48:52.019 --> 00:48:54.119
It would have really enlivened him.

1146
00:48:54.179 --> 00:48:55.739
Can you imagine Billy and the Macro Terror?

1147
00:48:55.800 --> 00:48:56.340
Yeah.

1148
00:48:56.400 --> 00:48:57.780
Well, the moon bath.

1149
00:48:57.840 --> 00:48:58.380
Oh, interesting.

1150
00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:04.079
I think Billy's out of place in the 10th planet, and I don't, much

1151
00:49:04.079 --> 00:49:07.500
as I love Hart and I, I'm not sorry that the change happens when

1152
00:49:07.500 --> 00:49:11.039
it does after 3 and a bit years and I certainly think Troughton

1153
00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:14.280
enlivens it, even though the material is much worse.

1154
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:16.679
I mean, it's very quickly.

1155
00:49:16.739 --> 00:49:19.199
Obviously, the moment of his performance.

1156
00:49:19.260 --> 00:49:20.039
Well, that experience.

1157
00:49:20.099 --> 00:49:23.699
So you've got the longest run of missing episodes, which is from

1158
00:49:23.699 --> 00:49:29.280
10th planet 4 to Underwater Menace one.

1159
00:49:29.340 --> 00:49:34.920
And suddenly try out and appears in Underwater Menace 2 and he's

1160
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:35.820
which of course we haven't seen.

1161
00:49:35.940 --> 00:49:38.039
Spectac, no, because that would be illegal.

1162
00:49:38.099 --> 00:49:40.800
He's just he's just spectacular.

1163
00:49:40.860 --> 00:49:42.119
He's so compelling.

1164
00:49:42.179 --> 00:49:43.860
Yeah, so male as well.

1165
00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:46.320
Okay, Patrick, could Patrick have stayed on America?

1166
00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:51.360
Well, as Patrick and Fraser have both said, you know, if it wasn't

1167
00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:54.480
for their agents, you know, you've been in the show for 3 years

1168
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:54.960
that's enough.

1169
00:49:55.079 --> 00:49:57.539
And from a career point of view, they're quite right.

1170
00:49:57.599 --> 00:50:00.239
But they both said they would have stayed forever.

1171
00:50:00.300 --> 00:50:03.179
So Patrick could have easily stayed longer.

1172
00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:06.539
You know, I think Jamie is a character and rights course, but

1173
00:50:06.539 --> 00:50:07.800
Patrick was so...

1174
00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:12.300
Probably by the end of about season four, by the end of the

1175
00:50:12.300 --> 00:50:13.380
highlanders.

1176
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:17.159
But Patrick, I think, certainly could have done more.

1177
00:50:17.219 --> 00:50:19.800
Richard, I think you've actually got like what you would have had

1178
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:20.579
as Patrick.

1179
00:50:20.579 --> 00:50:22.739
Yeah, it's one of my pets. isn't it?

1180
00:50:22.860 --> 00:50:25.260
Well, you know that of all of them, it was actually padders.

1181
00:50:25.320 --> 00:50:28.380
It was Wendy who was offered to stay the season seven.

1182
00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:31.800
Yes, and I believe Brian and Sherwin, but really did want her to

1183
00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:32.159
stay.

1184
00:50:32.219 --> 00:50:34.380
And I believe she said there's no way you could get me in a 2 shot

1185
00:50:34.380 --> 00:50:38.639
with John Pert, you know, any shot with my face would be Pertley's

1186
00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:38.940
crotch.

1187
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:42.719
I really have to go back and watch that game.

1188
00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:48.179
I don't know that keeping a companion over to the next season

1189
00:50:48.179 --> 00:50:51.300
would have worked, but I think there's very little you would need

1190
00:50:51.300 --> 00:50:51.780
to change.

1191
00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:57.119
And personally, I just would love to have a whole season of pets

1192
00:50:57.119 --> 00:51:01.139
that like we can watch and see his character development because

1193
00:51:01.139 --> 00:51:04.380
even within stories, he allows changes to the doctor.

1194
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:08.880
He's subtle and brilliant enough with the shift to a slightly

1195
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:09.599
older audience.

1196
00:51:09.719 --> 00:51:13.860
My problem with Pat originally was that it felt too simplistic

1197
00:51:13.860 --> 00:51:15.960
when I saw them for the 1st time.

1198
00:51:16.019 --> 00:51:19.500
But he was deliberately told, the whole team was told, play it

1199
00:51:19.500 --> 00:51:19.800
down.

1200
00:51:19.860 --> 00:51:21.960
It's for a kids show, for a kiddie audience.

1201
00:51:22.019 --> 00:51:26.639
When you go to the colour series, that isn't happening in season 7

1202
00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:30.659
and only starts to happen again in season 8 when they review it

1203
00:51:30.659 --> 00:51:32.940
and ask Katie to play it.

1204
00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:36.059
Katie's admitted she's always been playing it for the under

1205
00:51:36.059 --> 00:51:36.659
teams.

1206
00:51:36.719 --> 00:51:40.199
That's how she saw the program or how they were kind of steering

1207
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:44.340
it back towards that, that the colour season to see Pat subtly

1208
00:51:44.340 --> 00:51:47.400
morph the character and deal with all of these long scenes.

1209
00:51:47.460 --> 00:51:50.699
I think you were saying how would he have dealt with...

1210
00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:53.460
Yeah, I just watched the Silurians in episode five.

1211
00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:58.440
Sorry, Doctor Who and the Siberians, and episode 5 is just sort of

1212
00:51:58.440 --> 00:52:02.460
you know, per between a room with a bunch of, you know, drugs

1213
00:52:02.460 --> 00:52:04.920
testing things under a microscope.

1214
00:52:04.980 --> 00:52:06.300
That sounds like a great weekend.

1215
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:08.340
It goes on forever and ever.

1216
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:12.539
Like, look at the Hall of the Gods and what he and Wendy worked

1217
00:52:12.539 --> 00:52:14.820
out with the physical comedy with the headsets and playing

1218
00:52:14.820 --> 00:52:15.179
around.

1219
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:16.380
You know that would have been done.

1220
00:52:16.500 --> 00:52:18.239
He would have done some fun with it.

1221
00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:19.500
Because the script was so dull.

1222
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:20.940
He would have done something amazing.

1223
00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:25.860
I'd love to have seen Pat with Carrie. with the character of Lee

1224
00:52:25.860 --> 00:52:26.280
Shaw.

1225
00:52:26.340 --> 00:52:30.119
You saw because you saw how Whittaker always set him up with a

1226
00:52:30.119 --> 00:52:34.320
slightly more mature woman and just how outrageously plantation he

1227
00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:34.559
is.

1228
00:52:34.619 --> 00:52:35.039
Exactly.

1229
00:52:35.039 --> 00:52:36.659
We talked about it so much.

1230
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:38.820
Yeah, yeah, and especially...

1231
00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:41.340
I'm no nonsense, Liz.

1232
00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:44.400
Yeah She would have really been slapping it down and he could have

1233
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:45.179
been a bit flirty.

1234
00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:47.639
I'd just like to set play it more for the adults.

1235
00:52:47.699 --> 00:52:50.280
He's such a great actor and he can do so much of it.

1236
00:52:50.340 --> 00:52:54.119
It would have given him a fresh thing and, you know, a bit more, a

1237
00:52:54.119 --> 00:52:55.860
thank you to him for putting the hard work in.

1238
00:52:55.920 --> 00:53:00.599
Yeah, in a nice short 25 episodes. short-skirted companion, I

1239
00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:01.320
thought you would say, yeah.

1240
00:53:01.380 --> 00:53:04.739
The big problem he had was making so many shows a year.

1241
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:06.900
Imagine, you know, Pat, we're going to put you on in colour.

1242
00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:07.559
Oh, that's great.

1243
00:53:07.619 --> 00:53:10.139
And you only have to do two-thirds of the year work.

1244
00:53:10.199 --> 00:53:11.340
Oh, that's brilliant.

1245
00:53:11.400 --> 00:53:13.199
And your salary stays the same.

1246
00:53:13.260 --> 00:53:14.400
Where do I sign?

1247
00:53:14.460 --> 00:53:16.500
Well, I should have doing more money.

1248
00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:19.980
And then I could have had my dream casting of Billy in macraterra

1249
00:53:19.980 --> 00:53:21.360
and Billy is...

1250
00:53:21.420 --> 00:53:24.239
Billy for an extra year and Pat for the same amount of time.

1251
00:53:24.300 --> 00:53:25.019
For the same reason.

1252
00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:27.000
It's a thank you to Billy Free's hard work.

1253
00:53:27.059 --> 00:53:29.340
These young people are going to support you and love you and you

1254
00:53:29.340 --> 00:53:31.739
are safe and we really respect what you've done.

1255
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:33.300
Please just have fun with this.

1256
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:34.320
We're here to look after you.

1257
00:53:34.380 --> 00:53:36.780
If someone had just said that to him, he would have relaxed like

1258
00:53:36.780 --> 00:53:40.199
he did with his original cast and we could have had some fun.

1259
00:53:40.260 --> 00:53:42.239
So you're talking about stories?

1260
00:53:42.420 --> 00:53:46.739
I thought we might get from you, what you consider to be your

1261
00:53:46.739 --> 00:53:49.619
favourite or the best story from each of the 2 here is that you've

1262
00:53:49.619 --> 00:53:49.860
watched.

1263
00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:54.119
Do you know, I mean, I said before, the chase is the is the hard

1264
00:53:54.119 --> 00:53:57.239
one that I watch over and over again, and I'm totally aware of all

1265
00:53:57.239 --> 00:53:57.900
of its flaws.

1266
00:53:57.960 --> 00:53:59.639
It's the most filmic though, isn't it?

1267
00:53:59.699 --> 00:54:01.260
You can see of all of the films.

1268
00:54:01.320 --> 00:54:03.599
I wish we'd got that as a movie because it would work so long.

1269
00:54:03.659 --> 00:54:05.579
It's so fun and so silly.

1270
00:54:05.579 --> 00:54:07.860
And like, do you see?

1271
00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:08.940
It's nonsense.

1272
00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:11.340
There's terrible production gaps and all sorts of things.

1273
00:54:11.400 --> 00:54:12.960
Like it really is kind of shareable.

1274
00:54:13.019 --> 00:54:16.019
I must be overlooking something much more worthy in the.

1275
00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:21.000
It's the most... you know, it's the most translatable into musical

1276
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:22.019
format, isn't it?

1277
00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:27.420
Just like the Simpsons did Blanche DuBois.

1278
00:54:27.480 --> 00:54:28.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1279
00:54:28.980 --> 00:54:30.539
I've heard street cars. right.

1280
00:54:30.900 --> 00:54:34.199
So it chased to you, the chase, the musical.

1281
00:54:34.260 --> 00:54:35.880
Check all the 1st one.

1282
00:54:35.940 --> 00:54:41.940
And for Pat, like on quite different lines, and again, it's a

1283
00:54:41.940 --> 00:54:42.539
Dalek Street.

1284
00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:44.280
It has to be power of the Daleks.

1285
00:54:44.340 --> 00:54:47.760
I think it's so, uh, it's so clever.

1286
00:54:47.820 --> 00:54:50.940
You know, it's so clever and so ominous.

1287
00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:54.840
And it's the one time Whittaker's kind of terrible delaying

1288
00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:56.639
tactics really properly pay off.

1289
00:54:56.639 --> 00:55:00.780
And it's got the doctor being really weird and off putting and

1290
00:55:00.780 --> 00:55:03.420
it's got the dream team of, you know, Ben and Polly.

1291
00:55:03.480 --> 00:55:05.699
So I think it would have to be that.

1292
00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:07.079
Okay, Brendan.

1293
00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:09.960
I'm going to go backwards on this because I'm actually still

1294
00:55:09.960 --> 00:55:11.400
trying to think of a heart no one.

1295
00:55:11.460 --> 00:55:13.079
Pat, it's easy for me.

1296
00:55:13.139 --> 00:55:13.860
It's the invasion.

1297
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:15.539
Oh, good job.

1298
00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:18.780
I just think it is so good and it's amazing that it's such a long

1299
00:55:18.780 --> 00:55:20.579
story, but it's still so good.

1300
00:55:20.699 --> 00:55:22.619
Yeah, you mentioned that too.

1301
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:23.159
Yeah, yeah.

1302
00:55:23.159 --> 00:55:24.539
You've got Pat on top form.

1303
00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:25.739
You got a great villain.

1304
00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:27.900
You've got stuff for both companions to do.

1305
00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:30.840
You've got great supporting guards, each of whom have their own

1306
00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:33.179
character and their own motivations.

1307
00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:37.559
You've got very strong female guest characters, particularly in

1308
00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:40.920
the shape of Isabel, who is very proactive.

1309
00:55:40.980 --> 00:55:43.320
Um, It's just more fun as well.

1310
00:55:43.380 --> 00:55:44.880
It is really fun.

1311
00:55:44.940 --> 00:55:46.739
It's just terribly modern.

1312
00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:49.199
I think a bit cool, actually, on his blow up, it's got the girls

1313
00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:51.420
playing poke, you know, photography.

1314
00:55:51.539 --> 00:55:54.300
It's got some other references to more culture.

1315
00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:57.000
I mean, the great thing is as well, is it's full of characters

1316
00:55:57.000 --> 00:55:57.659
making mistakes.

1317
00:55:57.719 --> 00:56:00.179
Like, you know, Vaughan makes mistake in making a deal with the

1318
00:56:00.179 --> 00:56:00.719
Superman.

1319
00:56:00.780 --> 00:56:03.000
Packers always make mistakes against God.

1320
00:56:03.059 --> 00:56:04.619
You're not changing his surname.

1321
00:56:05.519 --> 00:56:11.099
Zoe and Isabel, you know, make the mistake of going into space.

1322
00:56:11.159 --> 00:56:15.480
Villain, but none of the mistakes feel like people being stupid

1323
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:18.000
like so often in any TV show.

1324
00:56:18.059 --> 00:56:21.539
People will occasionally do things seemingly just for the reason

1325
00:56:21.539 --> 00:56:22.860
of plot expediency.

1326
00:56:22.920 --> 00:56:23.760
That doesn't happen here.

1327
00:56:23.820 --> 00:56:25.320
These feel like real people.

1328
00:56:25.679 --> 00:56:29.880
Conversely, my heart no story, I think I'm going to pick the

1329
00:56:29.880 --> 00:56:36.599
Romans, which is... which is, you know, I have 2 favourites right

1330
00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:36.840
now.

1331
00:56:37.320 --> 00:56:39.719
It is high fast.

1332
00:56:39.780 --> 00:56:44.099
And so that means that people do do things for plot expediency and

1333
00:56:44.099 --> 00:56:47.280
things happen for blood expediency, you know, like Ian phones his

1334
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:50.159
way to Rome and Barbara just happens to have been sold there.

1335
00:56:50.219 --> 00:56:52.739
But that's the point...

1336
00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:54.179
Yeah, this is so...

1337
00:56:54.179 --> 00:56:57.719
It's what, yeah, and you've got the interweaving plots where the

1338
00:56:57.719 --> 00:57:00.059
crew don't realise they're all in Rome together.

1339
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:01.920
They're all in the palace together.

1340
00:57:01.980 --> 00:57:03.179
They're all in the palace together.

1341
00:57:03.239 --> 00:57:06.179
You've got Derek Francis's Nero, which, even though, you know

1342
00:57:06.179 --> 00:57:07.500
that's historically inaccurate.

1343
00:57:07.559 --> 00:57:09.659
He's 20 years older than Nero would have been, who the hell

1344
00:57:09.659 --> 00:57:09.900
cares?

1345
00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:10.920
He gives a great performance.

1346
00:57:10.980 --> 00:57:13.739
And again, you've got strong parts for women as well.

1347
00:57:13.860 --> 00:57:16.860
Papaya and Lacusta.

1348
00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:21.659
Even the fellow slave who is imprisoned with Barbara, who doesn't

1349
00:57:21.659 --> 00:57:24.599
get a huge amount of character, but just in the few scenes she's

1350
00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:24.780
in.

1351
00:57:25.139 --> 00:57:30.000
We have this great tension between the comedy of Dennis Spooner

1352
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:33.000
and the horrible reality of what it would be like here.

1353
00:57:33.059 --> 00:57:36.179
So, you know, they're my favourites for 2 very different reasons

1354
00:57:36.179 --> 00:57:38.820
but they just highlight how varied Doctor Who is and how Doctor

1355
00:57:38.820 --> 00:57:41.159
Who can have the comedy and the drama and balance.

1356
00:57:41.219 --> 00:57:42.659
Fantastic answer.

1357
00:57:42.719 --> 00:57:45.300
That's can't be taught.

1358
00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:46.380
So good.

1359
00:57:46.500 --> 00:57:47.880
You can disagree.

1360
00:57:47.940 --> 00:57:49.199
That's true.

1361
00:57:49.260 --> 00:57:52.800
I can try and say something that we haven't said in the podcast.

1362
00:57:52.860 --> 00:57:54.360
So I agree with you.

1363
00:57:54.420 --> 00:57:57.360
My go to is Whitaker and everything he does is fresh and

1364
00:57:57.360 --> 00:57:57.719
interesting.

1365
00:57:57.780 --> 00:58:01.559
It was really great seeing Wheel in Space again or just reading

1366
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:04.380
through that, listening to parts of it, I bison to the audience.

1367
00:58:04.440 --> 00:58:09.059
Just how interestingly it's played and against type and Pat is

1368
00:58:09.059 --> 00:58:11.099
surprising and cheeky and flirtatious.

1369
00:58:11.159 --> 00:58:12.360
I plating.

1370
00:58:12.420 --> 00:58:16.019
There's just so much in it and everything that Whittaker does, I

1371
00:58:16.019 --> 00:58:18.420
simply just say it's such a hard choice.

1372
00:58:18.480 --> 00:58:21.840
The massacre is very interesting for being someone like other

1373
00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:23.039
Doctor Who stories.

1374
00:58:23.099 --> 00:58:25.980
And because Billy is given a chance to play it.

1375
00:58:26.039 --> 00:58:28.199
As if for an adult audience.

1376
00:58:28.260 --> 00:58:32.159
He really, I know he's on screen for a very long time.

1377
00:58:32.219 --> 00:58:33.179
Yeah, very little time.

1378
00:58:33.239 --> 00:58:34.679
That actually makes it more potent.

1379
00:58:34.739 --> 00:58:38.280
It's when you see less of the monster, it's more scary.

1380
00:58:38.340 --> 00:58:41.340
Why is he hitting the last word on the map?

1381
00:58:42.659 --> 00:58:44.820
That's how it works.

1382
00:58:45.900 --> 00:58:48.780
Do we get a worse story, choice?

1383
00:58:48.840 --> 00:58:50.099
Which was right.

1384
00:58:50.099 --> 00:58:51.179
It's a question.

1385
00:58:51.239 --> 00:58:52.800
This is my question.

1386
00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:54.659
You can get the last word, Nathan.

1387
00:58:54.780 --> 00:58:57.239
Which story would you like to lose all eternity?

1388
00:58:57.300 --> 00:59:00.360
The space pirates, celestial time.

1389
00:59:00.420 --> 00:59:01.440
Yeah, we've still got.

1390
00:59:01.559 --> 00:59:04.380
I actually, I disagree.

1391
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:06.659
I don't think the space pirates is quite as terrible as that.

1392
00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:08.760
It is incredible and it's not great.

1393
00:59:08.820 --> 00:59:12.059
If you're 10 years old and you make spaceship models.

1394
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:13.559
That is spectacular.

1395
00:59:13.619 --> 00:59:14.460
And it's funny.

1396
00:59:14.519 --> 00:59:15.900
It's funny.

1397
00:59:16.619 --> 00:59:19.260
One of the things that one of the things that I didn't talk about

1398
00:59:19.260 --> 00:59:24.420
very much the time was that Bob Holmes gets the doctor right.

1399
00:59:24.480 --> 00:59:27.179
And even when he's just faxing it in.

1400
00:59:27.239 --> 00:59:28.139
Yeah, doesn't it?

1401
00:59:28.199 --> 00:59:31.619
Yeah, and so, you know how when Holmes becomes the script editor

1402
00:59:31.619 --> 00:59:34.019
the doctor suddenly has pockets that are full of whole bunches of

1403
00:59:34.019 --> 00:59:34.380
themes.

1404
00:59:34.440 --> 00:59:37.139
That starts in the space fire.

1405
00:59:37.199 --> 00:59:39.719
And so the doctor is kind of fun.

1406
00:59:39.780 --> 00:59:40.860
I know he's sidelined.

1407
00:59:40.920 --> 00:59:43.619
I know it's, you know, it's flawed and we were bored and all that

1408
00:59:43.619 --> 00:59:44.099
sort of thing.

1409
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:46.079
But I wouldn't lose the space pirates.

1410
00:59:46.139 --> 00:59:51.239
I would I'd rush straight to the furnace with the remaining

1411
00:59:51.239 --> 00:59:53.400
episode of the celestial toy maker.

1412
00:59:53.460 --> 00:59:57.179
It's more interesting to imagine and think about, which is why

1413
00:59:57.179 --> 00:59:59.639
fandom loved it so much until they got to see it again.

1414
00:59:59.699 --> 01:00:02.099
Some things work better in the memory, yeah.

1415
01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:04.679
Actually, I'm going to recant on the space part.

1416
01:00:04.739 --> 01:00:06.900
It was just the 1st thing that came into my head because I

1417
01:00:06.900 --> 01:00:08.760
couldn't think of anything else that bored me more.

1418
01:00:08.820 --> 01:00:10.619
The dominator.

1419
01:00:10.619 --> 01:00:14.579
Because not only is the dominator boring, it's offensive.

1420
01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:16.500
It's offensive to pacifism.

1421
01:00:16.500 --> 01:00:17.579
I'm with you on that one.

1422
01:00:17.639 --> 01:00:19.500
It's offensive to women.

1423
01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:21.360
It's just...

1424
01:00:21.360 --> 01:00:22.440
Is it the most offensive moment?

1425
01:00:22.500 --> 01:00:25.980
It's offensive to any frock maker in the history.

1426
01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:27.480
I think the...

1427
01:00:27.539 --> 01:00:31.019
I like the most...

1428
01:00:31.079 --> 01:00:33.539
I'm asking the most offensive moment.

1429
01:00:33.599 --> 01:00:34.739
I think the arc is the worst.

1430
01:00:35.579 --> 01:00:37.860
Did that surprise you?

1431
01:00:37.920 --> 01:00:39.300
Going back to the arc.

1432
01:00:39.420 --> 01:00:42.360
I mean, have you seen it not thought about its racism and you get

1433
01:00:42.360 --> 01:00:43.380
to it and you go, 0 my goodness.

1434
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:46.079
I never thought about it until Nathan brought it up in the

1435
01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:46.380
podcast.

1436
01:00:46.380 --> 01:00:49.440
That's what our argument was at the time, wasn't it?

1437
01:00:49.500 --> 01:00:50.639
As little children.

1438
01:00:50.699 --> 01:00:53.519
This is a lizard, not a black person or not a coloured person.

1439
01:00:53.579 --> 01:00:57.539
Yeah, we take on board what you're saying, but...

1440
01:00:57.599 --> 01:00:58.860
Anyway, the most offensive moment.

1441
01:00:59.039 --> 01:01:03.539
Is it the use of the N word in the celestial time maker?

1442
01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:06.360
No, I think it has to be the arc.

1443
01:01:06.420 --> 01:01:09.719
I think the arc is the most sustained racist allegory that shows

1444
01:01:09.719 --> 01:01:10.199
produced.

1445
01:01:10.260 --> 01:01:12.119
The character of camel leaves.

1446
01:01:12.179 --> 01:01:12.780
Yeah.

1447
01:01:12.840 --> 01:01:15.659
But camel, I know it's been how he's treated.

1448
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:17.280
But he does get to be quite heroic.

1449
01:01:17.340 --> 01:01:19.800
I'd say Toberman is more plot problematic than Kemble.

1450
01:01:19.860 --> 01:01:22.019
Well, they're both a problem though, aren't they?

1451
01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:23.039
strong man.

1452
01:01:23.159 --> 01:01:26.699
Is it okay to say I just see that he's playing a strong man and he

1453
01:01:26.699 --> 01:01:28.019
happens to be a coloured actor?

1454
01:01:28.079 --> 01:01:28.920
I didn't see it.

1455
01:01:28.920 --> 01:01:29.699
I know.

1456
01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:31.260
No, that's the point.

1457
01:01:31.260 --> 01:01:33.000
He's a coloured person playing a role.

1458
01:01:33.059 --> 01:01:34.559
But I just saw him as a big guy.

1459
01:01:34.619 --> 01:01:36.900
He just happens to be, you know, really hell.

1460
01:01:36.960 --> 01:01:41.219
But these colour of the skills to me doesn't imbue that that was

1461
01:01:41.219 --> 01:01:43.079
the character was required to be coloured.

1462
01:01:43.139 --> 01:01:45.659
He was just playing this big bloke.

1463
01:01:45.780 --> 01:01:48.000
But the fact is that the only time...

1464
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:51.119
My turn is the black person is when it's a big dumb strong.

1465
01:01:51.179 --> 01:01:53.219
That starts really great, doesn't it?

1466
01:01:53.280 --> 01:01:54.059
Not era.

1467
01:01:54.119 --> 01:01:57.300
Not only that, what really highlights it for Tobin and Tupacite?

1468
01:01:57.300 --> 01:01:58.320
The other 2 villains.

1469
01:01:58.739 --> 01:02:02.940
The other 2 villains are portrayed as Intelligent. not English.

1470
01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:05.039
No, they're foreign. from Shifty Sand.

1471
01:02:05.099 --> 01:02:06.599
But they're intelligent.

1472
01:02:06.659 --> 01:02:07.079
He's not.

1473
01:02:07.139 --> 01:02:11.099
Yeah, but we're, you know, we're just...

1474
01:02:11.159 --> 01:02:12.239
I'm not actually judging.

1475
01:02:12.239 --> 01:02:14.820
They're most stupid lumps of putty, you're going to throw me to a

1476
01:02:14.820 --> 01:02:16.139
capdown and chuck down too.

1477
01:02:16.199 --> 01:02:19.380
But, you know, it's something it's something that Nathan said

1478
01:02:19.380 --> 01:02:19.679
about.

1479
01:02:19.679 --> 01:02:22.380
It's something that Nathan said about season five.

1480
01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:24.900
It's something I don't entirely agree with, but is in this story

1481
01:02:24.900 --> 01:02:27.900
that instead of, you know, going out to meet other cultures.

1482
01:02:27.960 --> 01:02:30.239
Other cultures are scary and they are coming to get you.

1483
01:02:31.260 --> 01:02:37.320
So that's a big problem. most offensive Um, Dodo.

1484
01:02:37.380 --> 01:02:38.760
Dodo unsimitized.

1485
01:02:39.300 --> 01:02:42.239
No, I don't think that's that bad.

1486
01:02:42.300 --> 01:02:44.460
She doesn't make good time to see that.

1487
01:02:44.519 --> 01:02:47.639
That's the game, displaced performance, because Jackie is playing

1488
01:02:47.639 --> 01:02:49.980
it for the 4 year olds, and no one else around her is.

1489
01:02:50.039 --> 01:02:50.519
Yeah.

1490
01:02:50.519 --> 01:02:53.880
I mean, that, coming back to something 12 after earlier, I would

1491
01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:56.159
have liked to see more Ejaculate, because when we see her in the

1492
01:02:56.159 --> 01:02:58.860
gunfighters and a sadly great story.

1493
01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:00.000
Awesome machines.

1494
01:03:00.059 --> 01:03:03.420
She is really coming into her giving it a better go.

1495
01:03:03.480 --> 01:03:07.260
But that being said, as soon as she'd put up against Ben and Polly

1496
01:03:07.260 --> 01:03:09.239
it becomes how clear, how artificial.

1497
01:03:09.300 --> 01:03:12.360
Yeah, her home count his 50s muff and the milk.

1498
01:03:12.420 --> 01:03:12.840
Yeah, yeah.

1499
01:03:12.840 --> 01:03:14.340
I'm not referring to her ankles.

1500
01:03:15.059 --> 01:03:17.219
No, that's exactly it.

1501
01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:20.039
And she looks utterly out of place in the inferno.

1502
01:03:20.099 --> 01:03:22.079
These cool kids are hanging.

1503
01:03:22.139 --> 01:03:23.880
Yeah, actually, that's the amazing thing.

1504
01:03:23.940 --> 01:03:27.480
Billy fits in really well with the whole mod speed scene.

1505
01:03:27.539 --> 01:03:29.579
You can actually see him hanging out with John Liman.

1506
01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:30.480
What is she wearing?

1507
01:03:30.539 --> 01:03:32.219
It's like a smock or something.

1508
01:03:32.519 --> 01:03:35.760
I think it's it was something left human.

1509
01:03:35.820 --> 01:03:38.880
There's something left over from a hand me down from the refusals

1510
01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:42.119
and, you know, like you can actually now see it, just shows you

1511
01:03:42.119 --> 01:03:45.360
why they all decided to give up on visibility as a culture.

1512
01:03:45.420 --> 01:03:49.500
I would still say for me that the dominators is the most

1513
01:03:49.500 --> 01:03:51.119
offensive...

1514
01:03:51.179 --> 01:03:56.820
I mean, it doesn't have the racist part of it, but I mean, even in

1515
01:03:56.820 --> 01:04:00.179
the arc, the doctor does say that perhaps you shouldn't be

1516
01:04:00.179 --> 01:04:03.239
treating the monoids so badly, perhaps they are intelligent beings

1517
01:04:03.239 --> 01:04:04.079
just as yourself.

1518
01:04:04.139 --> 01:04:07.980
I think you're more intelligent than the other people are big.

1519
01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:10.380
He does say it to the humans, but he acknowledges their

1520
01:04:10.380 --> 01:04:13.079
intelligence and respects the modern weeds as individual beings.

1521
01:04:13.139 --> 01:04:16.679
Thank you, because that is my point with the monoids of that story

1522
01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:17.099
as well.

1523
01:04:17.159 --> 01:04:21.960
I don't see it as, you know, I want to say black and white.

1524
01:04:23.460 --> 01:04:27.179
I think there are moments where they try and sort of wallpaper

1525
01:04:27.179 --> 01:04:29.940
over the racism and the refuse scenes telling them to live

1526
01:04:29.940 --> 01:04:32.940
together in peace and harmony, but I don't think it, you know, the

1527
01:04:32.940 --> 01:04:35.760
main problem, as you highlight it, stuff is happening with the

1528
01:04:35.760 --> 01:04:36.900
dissolution of the empire.

1529
01:04:37.019 --> 01:04:39.659
Yeah, no, I know, but I think this is on the wrong side of

1530
01:04:39.659 --> 01:04:39.900
history.

1531
01:04:40.019 --> 01:04:42.420
Yeah, because the main problem, as you've said before, Nathan

1532
01:04:42.420 --> 01:04:44.219
isn't so much in episodes one or 2 where they're slaves.

1533
01:04:44.280 --> 01:04:46.500
It's episodes 3 and 4 where they've taken over and they're making

1534
01:04:46.500 --> 01:04:48.780
a hash of it and they're making a hash of it because they're not

1535
01:04:48.780 --> 01:04:49.559
the great white.

1536
01:04:49.619 --> 01:04:51.000
French isn't it?

1537
01:04:51.059 --> 01:04:54.059
Well, they're just getting it all wrong, kissing everybody off.

1538
01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:56.280
They can't rule themselves, you know?

1539
01:04:56.340 --> 01:04:58.980
There was no, I am face calming.

1540
01:04:59.699 --> 01:05:04.739
Okay, well, if we're talking about the converse of that, the most

1541
01:05:04.739 --> 01:05:07.739
beautiful moment that you think the series has.

1542
01:05:08.039 --> 01:05:10.139
Oh, there's so many.

1543
01:05:10.260 --> 01:05:13.260
Okay, I'm going to throw a few out there so we can discuss them.

1544
01:05:13.320 --> 01:05:16.800
Victoria's departure and her last scene with Jamie.

1545
01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:20.760
The doctor and Barbara's blazing row in the Aztecs turning into

1546
01:05:20.760 --> 01:05:23.940
them, comforting each other about the horror of Aztec civilisation

1547
01:05:23.940 --> 01:05:24.840
and how to save it.

1548
01:05:24.900 --> 01:05:27.480
And that brilliant moment where he says he's met an older woman

1549
01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:34.619
and she says, you all in rogue and stuff. rewatch the X. Barbara

1550
01:05:34.619 --> 01:05:37.619
with Nero when he says, I've got a surprise for you.

1551
01:05:38.280 --> 01:05:42.000
And just adjust her racing with the eyes when I was.

1552
01:05:42.059 --> 01:05:46.380
The one scene in 60s shock 2 that just reliably brings me to tears

1553
01:05:46.380 --> 01:05:49.079
is Ian and Barbara's departure.

1554
01:05:49.260 --> 01:05:54.119
And I really think that nothing that nothing approaches that for

1555
01:05:54.119 --> 01:05:55.440
like emotional.

1556
01:05:55.500 --> 01:05:58.380
Like we're used to it in Doctor Who now, you know, the how the

1557
01:05:58.380 --> 01:06:01.440
characters feel and stuff is foregrounded, and it's a bit less

1558
01:06:01.440 --> 01:06:04.019
about being captured and escaping and stuff.

1559
01:06:04.079 --> 01:06:07.559
But I think that that's just spectacularly beautiful.

1560
01:06:07.619 --> 01:06:10.619
And then the other one is the one that we talked about last week.

1561
01:06:10.679 --> 01:06:13.860
That moment where Zoe leaves and she's on the screen.

1562
01:06:13.980 --> 01:06:16.559
And she thinks she can remember something.

1563
01:06:16.559 --> 01:06:20.820
She looks back at the camera, but the way it's shot is that she's

1564
01:06:20.820 --> 01:06:23.400
looking back into the courtroom and she's looking at it.

1565
01:06:23.460 --> 01:06:26.099
It's already been removed.

1566
01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:30.239
I have come up with what will be mine because I thought to myself

1567
01:06:30.239 --> 01:06:33.780
I want to avoid companion departures because they're obvious.

1568
01:06:33.840 --> 01:06:37.260
But for me, it's actually just before a companion departure.

1569
01:06:37.320 --> 01:06:40.019
It's the penultimate scene of the dynamic invasion of earth.

1570
01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:42.300
And it's just this series of little beautiful moments where

1571
01:06:42.300 --> 01:06:45.179
they're back on the shore of the Thames and they hear Big Ben in

1572
01:06:45.179 --> 01:06:47.280
the distance and the doctor says that's just the beginning.

1573
01:06:47.340 --> 01:06:50.039
And then he has that conversation with Susan about her shoe and

1574
01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:51.599
you both know they're not talking about the shoe.

1575
01:06:51.599 --> 01:06:55.679
And then Susan breaks down and says, David, I do love you, but I

1576
01:06:55.679 --> 01:06:56.159
can't say.

1577
01:06:57.179 --> 01:07:02.340
I, yeah, it's it's just all building and it's it's it's beautiful

1578
01:07:02.340 --> 01:07:04.380
and heartbreaking at the same time.

1579
01:07:04.440 --> 01:07:05.219
And I think that's the thing.

1580
01:07:05.219 --> 01:07:07.320
For a beautiful moment, it has to break your heart a little

1581
01:07:07.619 --> 01:07:10.260
because it puts it back together again.

1582
01:07:10.320 --> 01:07:14.940
It's like it's it's like it's like a really good hug when you're

1583
01:07:14.940 --> 01:07:16.019
really upset about something.

1584
01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:18.360
It doesn't stop you being upset, but it starts to put you back

1585
01:07:18.360 --> 01:07:18.599
together.

1586
01:07:18.659 --> 01:07:21.119
Yeah, I really like them.

1587
01:07:21.179 --> 01:07:23.519
It has to be one day, shock on that.

1588
01:07:23.579 --> 01:07:24.719
Yeah.

1589
01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:25.199
Thank you.

1590
01:07:25.260 --> 01:07:28.800
I think, you know, I think because that also ties, of course, into

1591
01:07:28.800 --> 01:07:31.980
the 5 doctors, like you know that sequence from it, but whenever I

1592
01:07:31.980 --> 01:07:35.219
get to that sequence, you can't help that guest going is a

1593
01:07:35.219 --> 01:07:35.460
moment.

1594
01:07:35.519 --> 01:07:37.980
You just have that dinkling sort of.

1595
01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:40.559
It's one of it's beautiful.

1596
01:07:40.619 --> 01:07:41.880
Yeah, beautiful.

1597
01:07:42.059 --> 01:07:44.400
Monsters and violence.

1598
01:07:44.460 --> 01:07:45.539
Right?

1599
01:07:45.599 --> 01:07:49.440
Which one off monster villain should have recurred?

1600
01:07:49.559 --> 01:07:51.719
One off monster.

1601
01:07:51.780 --> 01:07:56.219
I would have actually quite like to see the board come back and be

1602
01:07:56.219 --> 01:07:58.139
expanded upon in terms of their character.

1603
01:07:58.199 --> 01:07:59.219
They're cybermen, aren't they?

1604
01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:03.000
Well, they appeared to be a sort of political movement and they

1605
01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:05.099
were a political movement with some degree of sympathy because

1606
01:08:05.099 --> 01:08:07.320
like the doctor says in the end, you know.

1607
01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:10.079
That's not.

1608
01:08:10.139 --> 01:08:16.560
But like the doctor said in the end, man is not made to be judged

1609
01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:18.420
by machines and controlled by machines.

1610
01:08:18.479 --> 01:08:20.340
And really, that's what the board are saying.

1611
01:08:20.399 --> 01:08:21.840
We don't want to be controlled by machines.

1612
01:08:21.899 --> 01:08:26.939
And as we speak, big finish have released a new board audio

1613
01:08:26.939 --> 01:08:27.420
story.

1614
01:08:27.479 --> 01:08:28.979
Oh, wow.

1615
01:08:29.039 --> 01:08:30.180
The power of costumes.

1616
01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:32.699
They're fantastic.

1617
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:35.939
The new board leader actually has a crystal on his head because

1618
01:08:35.939 --> 01:08:36.659
he's on the cover.

1619
01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:37.739
I haven't heard it yet.

1620
01:08:37.800 --> 01:08:41.220
I'm way behind on my big finish, but it'll be interesting to hear

1621
01:08:41.220 --> 01:08:44.279
how they've fleshed out monsters because that's something Big Fish

1622
01:08:44.279 --> 01:08:45.960
do so well, bringing back one of them.

1623
01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:47.279
It's like the Nelly Morn.

1624
01:08:47.340 --> 01:08:48.960
They brought back the name on it.

1625
01:08:49.500 --> 01:08:51.720
It's a fairy tonight.

1626
01:08:51.779 --> 01:08:53.460
I love seasons of Shield.

1627
01:08:53.520 --> 01:08:55.859
They have great voices, though.

1628
01:08:55.920 --> 01:08:56.640
They do have great.

1629
01:08:56.699 --> 01:08:58.079
Okay, so the forward track.

1630
01:08:58.140 --> 01:08:59.100
That's a great story anyway.

1631
01:08:59.159 --> 01:09:00.239
Paul Cornell, isn't it?

1632
01:09:00.300 --> 01:09:00.899
So of course it's good.

1633
01:09:01.020 --> 01:09:02.039
And Carolyn Zimcox.

1634
01:09:02.100 --> 01:09:06.000
I want to say Magic Mavic Chen, but they did bring him back in the

1635
01:09:06.000 --> 01:09:06.720
invite.

1636
01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:10.500
So, is that like a song?

1637
01:09:10.560 --> 01:09:14.399
Yeah, he just re-emerged.

1638
01:09:14.460 --> 01:09:17.460
Um, I don't know.

1639
01:09:17.579 --> 01:09:19.739
The macra...

1640
01:09:19.739 --> 01:09:21.239
Dramas?

1641
01:09:21.300 --> 01:09:22.619
The dramans.

1642
01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:23.699
That would be really something.

1643
01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:25.079
I was Dominators.

1644
01:09:25.140 --> 01:09:29.460
Couldn't we have had that story where the dominators meet the

1645
01:09:29.460 --> 01:09:32.220
celestial toy maker on the arm?

1646
01:09:32.279 --> 01:09:36.060
And then they crash into 15th century frogs.

1647
01:09:37.500 --> 01:09:39.899
To get organised.

1648
01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:43.260
It would be all my dreams come true.

1649
01:09:44.579 --> 01:09:46.560
Give me Russell, right?

1650
01:09:46.619 --> 01:09:48.359
That is a normal one. pretty sure we did, sir.

1651
01:09:48.779 --> 01:09:50.579
Richard.

1652
01:09:51.840 --> 01:09:54.000
Sorry, Pip and Jane Blake.

1653
01:09:54.119 --> 01:09:54.960
Where were we?

1654
01:09:56.699 --> 01:10:00.060
For me, the most mesmeric.

1655
01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:03.239
And interestingly for non-fans, it's the go to, and it really was

1656
01:10:03.239 --> 01:10:05.880
in the 80s when it 1st came out on video, it's an early one that

1657
01:10:05.880 --> 01:10:07.260
came out earlier.

1658
01:10:07.319 --> 01:10:12.060
Ones that students getting around on a Saturday night, you know, as

1659
01:10:12.060 --> 01:10:15.180
in no money, we've got nothing but a bottle of hootch and a spliff

1660
01:10:15.180 --> 01:10:16.800
everybody watched the web planet.

1661
01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:18.359
And it's amazing.

1662
01:10:18.420 --> 01:10:19.680
It's really amazing.

1663
01:10:19.739 --> 01:10:23.579
I don't know if I quite like the audio return to the web planet

1664
01:10:23.579 --> 01:10:25.619
that Peter, you're talking about, big finish.

1665
01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:27.300
It's a fun little one thing story.

1666
01:10:27.359 --> 01:10:29.399
I don't think it would have worked so much as a returning

1667
01:10:29.399 --> 01:10:31.500
character, but I'd just love to see them.

1668
01:10:31.560 --> 01:10:34.500
I did some little drawings for our page when we were talking about

1669
01:10:34.500 --> 01:10:37.020
Wet Planet because I'm just so fascinated by them.

1670
01:10:37.079 --> 01:10:41.279
It's showing Todd, but it's on the revisioning of what they'd be.

1671
01:10:41.340 --> 01:10:44.460
I just think it'd be amazing as in CG.

1672
01:10:44.520 --> 01:10:47.100
I did see G animation for a few years there.

1673
01:10:47.159 --> 01:10:48.720
I just think it would be a beautiful thing.

1674
01:10:48.779 --> 01:10:52.680
And just to take Doctor Who, you know, Vernian, this show can do

1675
01:10:52.680 --> 01:10:54.119
everything and that's why we love it.

1676
01:10:54.180 --> 01:10:57.060
I want to see it do pure esotericusF again.

1677
01:10:57.119 --> 01:10:59.819
I'm not saying it'll be a quality...

1678
01:10:59.880 --> 01:11:02.520
I don't know that it would work, but hey, for an hour format.

1679
01:11:02.579 --> 01:11:07.739
Just give us pure Edwardian fantasy of the a Lewis Carroll kind of

1680
01:11:07.739 --> 01:11:08.579
nutsy thing.

1681
01:11:08.640 --> 01:11:09.840
I think it would work really well.

1682
01:11:10.020 --> 01:11:11.939
That's amazing picture.

1683
01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:12.600
Oh, thanks.

1684
01:11:12.659 --> 01:11:15.539
Yeah, well, I think they're they'd be amazing creatures to have.

1685
01:11:15.600 --> 01:11:20.039
You throw us into a truly alien environment, not just a rich for

1686
01:11:20.039 --> 01:11:23.579
her pleasure rubber for it, started Voyager kind of.

1687
01:11:23.640 --> 01:11:26.880
Yeah, no, I like we're playing a lot, and that's something that I

1688
01:11:26.880 --> 01:11:29.039
was kind of surprised by because it was something that we used to

1689
01:11:29.039 --> 01:11:30.779
scoff at, really, wasn't it?

1690
01:11:30.840 --> 01:11:31.920
But it really is.

1691
01:11:32.039 --> 01:11:33.659
And there's not been enough corks.

1692
01:11:33.720 --> 01:11:34.380
I mean, come on.

1693
01:11:34.439 --> 01:11:35.939
Oh, yes, have they come back?

1694
01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:39.420
They're actually quite they are quite odd and threatening with the

1695
01:11:39.420 --> 01:11:40.020
little kitty boys.

1696
01:11:40.140 --> 01:11:41.279
You could have done something with them.

1697
01:11:41.340 --> 01:11:43.079
It's the top of the thing on a shoe box.

1698
01:11:43.140 --> 01:11:44.640
Remember I said at the time?

1699
01:11:44.699 --> 01:11:47.760
No, no, no, no, they kind of come back as the top of the thing.

1700
01:11:47.819 --> 01:11:49.859
Yeah, they really do, don't they?

1701
01:11:49.979 --> 01:11:52.560
But without the with a board crystal on there.

1702
01:11:52.619 --> 01:11:55.739
Let's talk about some of the recurring monsters.

1703
01:11:55.800 --> 01:11:56.880
Resting the Dalks.

1704
01:11:57.000 --> 01:11:57.779
Was that a positive?

1705
01:11:57.840 --> 01:11:58.500
Absolutely.

1706
01:11:58.560 --> 01:11:59.340
Yes, I agree.

1707
01:11:59.399 --> 01:12:00.060
No.

1708
01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:01.439
No, we are.

1709
01:12:01.560 --> 01:12:05.579
Because they were replaced with the, basically, the cybermen, who

1710
01:12:05.579 --> 01:12:06.720
look careful, essentially.

1711
01:12:06.779 --> 01:12:08.279
But look how fresh and interesting it was.

1712
01:12:08.340 --> 01:12:08.939
For the cast.

1713
01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:09.659
It was more interesting.

1714
01:12:09.720 --> 01:12:11.939
The blokes can move around a bit more.

1715
01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:15.420
The Daleks are a brilliant concept that occasionally when we

1716
01:12:15.420 --> 01:12:19.020
reboot, we get it right, Genesis, lovely Robbie Shuman, Stylek

1717
01:12:19.020 --> 01:12:20.039
story, power.

1718
01:12:20.100 --> 01:12:21.960
I would say, beautiful.

1719
01:12:22.020 --> 01:12:25.260
When you've got a good writer and you hold back on them, but my

1720
01:12:25.260 --> 01:12:27.239
goodness, it's so easy to get them wrong.

1721
01:12:27.300 --> 01:12:31.079
Yeah, well, I mean, look at look at the Dalek stories we're

1722
01:12:31.079 --> 01:12:33.479
getting coming up in the 70s where they were doing one a year.

1723
01:12:33.539 --> 01:12:37.739
You can't have power of the dialects and evil of the dialects

1724
01:12:37.739 --> 01:12:38.460
every year.

1725
01:12:38.520 --> 01:12:40.500
In the 70s, we get Day of the Daleks, which is great.

1726
01:12:40.560 --> 01:12:43.079
We get Plan of the Daleks, which is a bit of a runaround.

1727
01:12:43.140 --> 01:12:44.939
We get Deaths of the Daleks, which is okay.

1728
01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:49.079
But then we get Genesis because we have a new producer coming in.

1729
01:12:49.140 --> 01:12:51.180
And you got Bob Holmes, both telling Terry Nation.

1730
01:12:51.300 --> 01:12:53.640
And the Daleks are hardly in it, which is fine.

1731
01:12:53.699 --> 01:12:56.399
I mean, I think you should keep them as the ontological threat.

1732
01:12:56.460 --> 01:12:57.239
Yeah, yeah.

1733
01:12:57.300 --> 01:12:58.079
That's right.

1734
01:12:58.140 --> 01:13:00.600
And I think that that's where Terry Nation misunderstands the

1735
01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:01.140
Daleks.

1736
01:13:01.199 --> 01:13:04.319
She just thinks they're sort of, you know, shrill robots and

1737
01:13:04.319 --> 01:13:07.920
things, but we think it gets them and I think, I think, you know

1738
01:13:07.920 --> 01:13:12.300
Bob Holmes gets got them like much under under estimated victory

1739
01:13:12.300 --> 01:13:14.220
of the dialects, but then all the stuff that was cut out.

1740
01:13:14.279 --> 01:13:15.600
It would have been an amazing 2 part.

1741
01:13:15.659 --> 01:13:17.699
We were talking about that just before you arrived because we

1742
01:13:17.699 --> 01:13:24.720
actually have a new dialect supreme... new paradigm, Diana

1743
01:13:24.720 --> 01:13:25.500
Rothstarlik.

1744
01:13:25.560 --> 01:13:27.300
What's Diana Roster?

1745
01:13:27.359 --> 01:13:29.039
It's a supreme job.

1746
01:13:29.100 --> 01:13:31.739
Oh, I thought you made it...

1747
01:13:34.800 --> 01:13:38.159
That's the content.

1748
01:13:38.220 --> 01:13:43.140
Anyway, the Darlic in question is an alarm clock, which does

1749
01:13:43.140 --> 01:13:43.500
this.

1750
01:13:49.560 --> 01:13:52.079
It operates the teleport and the grader.

1751
01:13:52.140 --> 01:13:53.159
That's so interesting.

1752
01:13:53.699 --> 01:13:57.420
So what is that achieve?

1753
01:13:57.539 --> 01:14:00.300
Why is that getting kicked in?

1754
01:14:00.359 --> 01:14:02.159
Is it Cameron?

1755
01:14:02.760 --> 01:14:04.800
Is it doing the accent?

1756
01:14:04.859 --> 01:14:05.760
Let's...

1757
01:14:05.760 --> 01:14:08.819
There you go.

1758
01:14:08.819 --> 01:14:13.560
So I actually say we're tired of Daleks already.

1759
01:14:13.619 --> 01:14:16.920
Okay, but if we if we just look at the different recurring

1760
01:14:16.920 --> 01:14:20.699
monsters like Dalek, Simon, Yeti, Great Intelligence, Ice Foyers

1761
01:14:20.699 --> 01:14:21.720
and the Methling Monk.

1762
01:14:21.779 --> 01:14:24.119
Who were the most effective who released the SG?

1763
01:14:24.180 --> 01:14:27.539
I mean, I do I do want to properly address the idea that resting

1764
01:14:27.539 --> 01:14:34.859
the Daleks was unfortunate because I think the Daleks and the

1765
01:14:34.859 --> 01:14:38.579
doctor, by power of Daleks, they become opposites and they become

1766
01:14:38.579 --> 01:14:41.159
like proper modelling.

1767
01:14:41.220 --> 01:14:43.979
And they're really, really so associated with the program.

1768
01:14:44.039 --> 01:14:49.859
And I have to kind of suspect that that part of the dropping

1769
01:14:49.859 --> 01:14:55.020
interest in the late 60s had to do with the Daleks not being in it

1770
01:14:55.020 --> 01:14:55.380
anymore.

1771
01:14:55.439 --> 01:14:56.399
Do you know what I mean?

1772
01:14:56.460 --> 01:14:58.439
And I think the cybermen always...

1773
01:14:58.439 --> 01:15:01.979
I think Xander says these things, they always have the kind of the

1774
01:15:01.979 --> 01:15:03.539
whiff of disappointment about them.

1775
01:15:03.600 --> 01:15:08.220
You know, they're always like not the daleks, you know, so are

1776
01:15:08.220 --> 01:15:08.819
they invasions?

1777
01:15:08.939 --> 01:15:10.319
Well, have worked with them.

1778
01:15:10.380 --> 01:15:12.479
But that's right, but they're barely in it.

1779
01:15:12.600 --> 01:15:15.659
You know, 10th planet's obviously an exception because the, the

1780
01:15:15.659 --> 01:15:18.840
the premise of the, the sidemen is established there and they're

1781
01:15:18.840 --> 01:15:21.659
they're not just old, the cybermen again, they're something really

1782
01:15:21.659 --> 01:15:23.460
frightening and weird and different.

1783
01:15:23.520 --> 01:15:25.859
But I think they just become sort of dull robots.

1784
01:15:25.920 --> 01:15:28.020
It's like pretty... as did the Daleks.

1785
01:15:28.079 --> 01:15:29.579
Just don't use any of them too often.

1786
01:15:29.640 --> 01:15:32.640
They were overused in the same way that the dialects happened.

1787
01:15:32.699 --> 01:15:34.380
Unlike a lot of people.

1788
01:15:34.439 --> 01:15:37.199
I think having the dialects back every year in the new program is

1789
01:15:37.199 --> 01:15:40.800
great, essentially, even as a cameo, just to remind us that

1790
01:15:40.800 --> 01:15:42.420
they're the.

1791
01:15:42.420 --> 01:15:43.380
Can they win sometimes?

1792
01:15:43.439 --> 01:15:46.140
That's another reason why I love Michael is a story.

1793
01:15:46.199 --> 01:15:49.380
Just don't let them be able to pushed down a flight of stairs.

1794
01:15:49.439 --> 01:15:50.939
It's just ridiculous.

1795
01:15:51.000 --> 01:15:53.100
See, yeah, I agree.

1796
01:15:53.159 --> 01:15:54.420
I agree with that.

1797
01:15:54.479 --> 01:15:57.960
You know, the Dalek should be allowed to have a at least a partial

1798
01:15:57.960 --> 01:15:59.340
win occasionally.

1799
01:15:59.399 --> 01:16:02.340
I mean, really, they get that in Genesis because even though

1800
01:16:02.340 --> 01:16:03.720
they're in tune, they survive.

1801
01:16:03.840 --> 01:16:09.840
I actually have always preferred cybermen to Daleks. simply

1802
01:16:09.840 --> 01:16:10.800
because...

1803
01:16:10.859 --> 01:16:17.340
Well, until the 80s, You couldn't become a Dalek, there is no

1804
01:16:17.340 --> 01:16:20.340
threat to you as a human being that you can become a Dalek, and

1805
01:16:20.340 --> 01:16:21.420
then of course they start doing that.

1806
01:16:21.479 --> 01:16:25.380
But with the side of the men, it's stated right from their 1st

1807
01:16:25.380 --> 01:16:26.159
scene that they are human.

1808
01:16:26.220 --> 01:16:28.920
They are human underneath all that and it strips that away from

1809
01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:29.100
me.

1810
01:16:29.159 --> 01:16:32.579
And that's why I find them so much more interesting.

1811
01:16:32.699 --> 01:16:35.579
And I would argue that really in the 60s, the only story that

1812
01:16:35.579 --> 01:16:39.659
doesn't really work for the side meant in that it could have been

1813
01:16:39.659 --> 01:16:41.159
anyone is the wheel in space.

1814
01:16:41.220 --> 01:16:45.300
But I think they're very effectively used in all the other stories

1815
01:16:45.300 --> 01:16:46.439
they appear in the 60s.

1816
01:16:46.500 --> 01:16:48.479
I love them in wheeling sports.

1817
01:16:48.539 --> 01:16:50.039
Yeah, I kind of do as well.

1818
01:16:50.100 --> 01:16:51.180
But I do agree with you.

1819
01:16:51.239 --> 01:16:52.439
I think they could be anyone.

1820
01:16:52.500 --> 01:16:55.199
But I think they could just foul be anyone in the moon base as

1821
01:16:55.199 --> 01:16:55.380
well.

1822
01:16:55.439 --> 01:16:58.439
And, you know, there's enough similarity, I guess, between the war

1823
01:16:58.439 --> 01:17:01.079
machines and the invasion where, you know, it didn't need to be

1824
01:17:01.079 --> 01:17:04.680
the side of them, particularly, uh, do you know what I mean?

1825
01:17:04.739 --> 01:17:07.439
Maybe it could have just been robot guys or any kind of alien

1826
01:17:07.439 --> 01:17:07.800
really.

1827
01:17:07.859 --> 01:17:12.420
But with the invasion, it has the thing off the cybermen are

1828
01:17:12.420 --> 01:17:12.779
coming home.

1829
01:17:13.800 --> 01:17:17.100
They're coming home in force this time because last time they came

1830
01:17:17.100 --> 01:17:19.079
home, they just took over a couple of offices.

1831
01:17:19.140 --> 01:17:19.319
Yeah.

1832
01:17:19.319 --> 01:17:19.800
Yeah.

1833
01:17:19.800 --> 01:17:21.539
This is the previous time.

1834
01:17:21.840 --> 01:17:25.079
Yeah, but for us, it's this time.

1835
01:17:25.140 --> 01:17:28.380
Well, you see, I actually think that they've so kind of forgotten

1836
01:17:28.380 --> 01:17:30.779
the premise of the side meant, you know what I mean?

1837
01:17:30.840 --> 01:17:32.399
That they just don't really care.

1838
01:17:32.460 --> 01:17:35.939
Um, and I guess, I guess it has to be the same because it's

1839
01:17:35.939 --> 01:17:40.560
international electromatics and taking the world over using, you

1840
01:17:40.560 --> 01:17:42.720
know, transistor radios and stuff like that.

1841
01:17:42.779 --> 01:17:43.680
So maybe I'm wrong.

1842
01:17:43.739 --> 01:17:45.000
Maybe it does need to be assignment.

1843
01:17:45.060 --> 01:17:48.300
But the Simon don't need to be, you know, humans that have been

1844
01:17:48.300 --> 01:17:50.819
brutally changed and things.

1845
01:17:50.880 --> 01:17:52.739
It's not most true, is it?

1846
01:17:52.859 --> 01:17:55.140
That what's coming out of this between you, listening to YouTube.

1847
01:17:55.199 --> 01:17:56.039
What do you think, Todd?

1848
01:17:56.100 --> 01:17:56.760
It's not the monster.

1849
01:17:56.819 --> 01:18:00.479
It's the way you divest the monster within the narrative.

1850
01:18:00.539 --> 01:18:05.340
It's how the monster addresses and comes up against the main

1851
01:18:05.340 --> 01:18:07.020
characters and where the story goes with them.

1852
01:18:07.079 --> 01:18:09.659
Is that the basis of how is the writer?

1853
01:18:09.720 --> 01:18:12.060
That's the writer, the producer, the director.

1854
01:18:12.119 --> 01:18:13.260
And you can enter behind that.

1855
01:18:13.319 --> 01:18:17.159
And you've kept coming back to that type of Whittaker or Veryton

1856
01:18:17.159 --> 01:18:18.180
Lambert and that sort of thing.

1857
01:18:18.239 --> 01:18:24.300
So, I think, I'd like to ask the best production team, in terms of

1858
01:18:24.300 --> 01:18:26.399
producers.

1859
01:18:26.399 --> 01:18:28.859
You can't, like, well, you always got 2 things, haven't you?

1860
01:18:28.920 --> 01:18:33.239
In art theory in architecture, in fact, as it's now, you know, the

1861
01:18:33.239 --> 01:18:36.239
classical model of art movements, is you have the establishing

1862
01:18:36.239 --> 01:18:39.000
period, which is the classical period where you have fresh ideas

1863
01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:45.060
that are then strengthened and commodified and put into a

1864
01:18:45.060 --> 01:18:45.960
protocol.

1865
01:18:46.020 --> 01:18:48.840
You have the mannerist period coming right after that and you

1866
01:18:48.840 --> 01:18:51.539
start to become a bit more playful and perhaps a bit of joy comes

1867
01:18:51.539 --> 01:18:51.840
in.

1868
01:18:51.899 --> 01:18:55.979
Um, there's recognition of the stale, but then you go to the

1869
01:18:55.979 --> 01:19:00.000
baroque, which you would might say for us is the Colin Baker era.

1870
01:19:00.060 --> 01:19:03.060
In that things are just thrown up and let's be as amazing and

1871
01:19:03.060 --> 01:19:03.899
creative as possible.

1872
01:19:03.960 --> 01:19:07.260
You could say with the 80s, the mannerrest period followed the

1873
01:19:07.260 --> 01:19:11.220
baroque because Sylvester's one had a lot of that, but it also

1874
01:19:11.220 --> 01:19:16.140
looked at where they got it wrong, perhaps, and jumping forward.

1875
01:19:16.199 --> 01:19:19.739
In the 60s, for me, the classical period, which is the early

1876
01:19:19.739 --> 01:19:23.640
Hartnell, is the strongest because it's refresh and creative and

1877
01:19:23.640 --> 01:19:24.180
they're scared.

1878
01:19:24.239 --> 01:19:27.300
And you do some brilliant creative work when you're scared.

1879
01:19:27.300 --> 01:19:30.960
And you're running with those appearances every single week.

1880
01:19:31.020 --> 01:19:33.479
So yeah, my dream team is verity.

1881
01:19:33.539 --> 01:19:36.600
But then I also look at, there were great ideas, even with wilds.

1882
01:19:36.659 --> 01:19:37.680
They were interesting ideas.

1883
01:19:37.739 --> 01:19:39.420
Things weren't working together.

1884
01:19:39.479 --> 01:19:42.899
Then you get something like the war games, which is just this

1885
01:19:42.899 --> 01:19:45.239
gorgeous black pearl we just talked about.

1886
01:19:45.300 --> 01:19:46.739
And it's so fresh.

1887
01:19:46.800 --> 01:19:49.319
And there's something you talked about when Caroline Ford was

1888
01:19:49.319 --> 01:19:49.619
leaving.

1889
01:19:49.680 --> 01:19:51.840
There's something about knowing you're going to leave, whether it

1890
01:19:51.840 --> 01:19:54.840
be a job or once you've decided to end a relationship.

1891
01:19:54.899 --> 01:19:58.680
Well, there's a sense of peace and perhaps the unconscious kicks

1892
01:19:58.680 --> 01:20:01.140
in, but you're actually able to say what you'd always wanted to

1893
01:20:01.140 --> 01:20:04.859
say without any fear of threat or just put it out there.

1894
01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:09.000
And you get amazing performances from people, not just the actors

1895
01:20:09.000 --> 01:20:11.819
but the whole production team when they know something's about to

1896
01:20:11.819 --> 01:20:14.340
end, which is why these stories are so poignant.

1897
01:20:14.399 --> 01:20:16.680
As Brendan was saying, it's the scenes leading up to the

1898
01:20:16.680 --> 01:20:17.220
departure.

1899
01:20:17.279 --> 01:20:19.260
It's not just that moment.

1900
01:20:19.319 --> 01:20:20.399
Of course that's the article.

1901
01:20:20.460 --> 01:20:23.220
But I think that people are actually putting a bit more in and

1902
01:20:23.220 --> 01:20:24.479
forgetting how stressed they are.

1903
01:20:24.539 --> 01:20:27.539
You know how great you feel on the last day of work, even if

1904
01:20:27.539 --> 01:20:28.260
you're still busy.

1905
01:20:28.380 --> 01:20:31.199
You just know because it's over for now. can relax.

1906
01:20:31.260 --> 01:20:33.659
So those points for me.

1907
01:20:34.079 --> 01:20:36.539
Are the great moments.

1908
01:20:36.600 --> 01:20:39.359
So maybe the last few stories of pet and that really, you know, was

1909
01:20:39.359 --> 01:20:41.699
that really early period of 60s person last.

1910
01:20:41.760 --> 01:20:45.659
Yeah, I would have to say it has to be, you know, Barry Lambert

1911
01:20:45.659 --> 01:20:47.579
and David Whitaker, a scoop later.

1912
01:20:47.640 --> 01:20:51.180
I'm going to say something slightly different, which is Veritini

1913
01:20:51.180 --> 01:20:52.380
Lambert and Dennis Spooner.

1914
01:20:52.439 --> 01:20:53.819
Oh, okay.

1915
01:20:53.880 --> 01:20:56.880
And the reason I'm saying that is, you know, Verity, Lambert and

1916
01:20:56.880 --> 01:21:01.739
David Wicker, you know, set up this universe, we know and love.

1917
01:21:01.800 --> 01:21:05.460
But it was when Dennis Spooner came on board that it really

1918
01:21:05.460 --> 01:21:08.640
introduced the sort of sense of anarchy and reverence.

1919
01:21:08.760 --> 01:21:11.279
You know, in the romance.

1920
01:21:11.399 --> 01:21:12.600
It was fun again, wasn't it?

1921
01:21:12.659 --> 01:21:14.819
I mean, the 1st series was still fun.

1922
01:21:14.880 --> 01:21:18.600
It had moments, but it's only in the Romans where you start

1923
01:21:18.600 --> 01:21:21.359
catching the doctor and Vicky throwing people out of windows.

1924
01:21:22.079 --> 01:21:26.699
And, you know, I just love Dennis Spooner's work in everything he

1925
01:21:26.699 --> 01:21:27.239
touches.

1926
01:21:27.300 --> 01:21:32.880
But for me, that run of stories in that 2nd season, it's so well

1927
01:21:32.880 --> 01:21:35.880
crystalised and you can tell everyone on the show is having an

1928
01:21:35.880 --> 01:21:39.960
immense amount of fun, whereas in the 1st season, for instance, we

1929
01:21:39.960 --> 01:21:42.300
know Carol Anne Ford wasn't having fun by the end of it.

1930
01:21:42.359 --> 01:21:45.479
But that part, everyone's having fun.

1931
01:21:45.539 --> 01:21:48.420
And it is after that, that everyone involved said, you know, after

1932
01:21:48.420 --> 01:21:51.000
verity left and after Dennis left it kind of fell apart.

1933
01:21:51.060 --> 01:21:53.699
I'm not blaming Miles and Tosh for that.

1934
01:21:53.760 --> 01:21:57.960
I'm just saying that for me is the best of the 60s.

1935
01:21:58.020 --> 01:22:01.800
It became a job. rather than it became a production thing. you

1936
01:22:01.800 --> 01:22:04.140
know, so I'm not something that had to be produced and made rather

1937
01:22:04.140 --> 01:22:06.899
than, yeah, exactly rather than this thing of wonder.

1938
01:22:07.380 --> 01:22:11.159
I love how Sherwin pumps heart blood back into it.

1939
01:22:11.220 --> 01:22:11.939
Oh, yeah.

1940
01:22:11.939 --> 01:22:16.920
And he's another person, Sherman, I think, that really does get it

1941
01:22:16.979 --> 01:22:18.479
really puts the effort in.

1942
01:22:18.539 --> 01:22:21.539
I mean, I said last podcast that even though season 5 is more

1943
01:22:21.539 --> 01:22:24.720
successful than season 6, like 1st season 6 because it's

1944
01:22:24.720 --> 01:22:25.739
imaginative again.

1945
01:22:25.800 --> 01:22:27.180
Yeah, yeah, I think so too.

1946
01:22:27.300 --> 01:22:30.659
Yeah, I think it's time for some salt Mary avoid.

1947
01:22:30.720 --> 01:22:32.699
Magic magic chen.

1948
01:22:32.760 --> 01:22:34.979
A monoid or the morpho brains?

1949
01:22:35.039 --> 01:22:36.000
Right.

1950
01:22:36.060 --> 01:22:37.500
Um...

1951
01:22:37.500 --> 01:22:41.640
I think I'd have to avoid the more for brains.

1952
01:22:41.699 --> 01:22:46.500
I think possibly because I, possibly because I am a Doctor Who

1953
01:22:46.500 --> 01:22:46.739
fan.

1954
01:22:46.800 --> 01:22:49.619
I had this thing about not wanting to be controlled and confined

1955
01:22:49.619 --> 01:22:52.500
because everyone in Doctor Who Stories is controlled and confined

1956
01:22:52.500 --> 01:22:53.340
by the alien matter.

1957
01:22:53.399 --> 01:22:55.619
So I couldn't deal with an morpho brain at all.

1958
01:22:56.100 --> 01:22:58.979
I think I'd have to snog the monoid.

1959
01:22:59.039 --> 01:23:00.659
How can you solve the monitor?

1960
01:23:00.720 --> 01:23:01.560
They don't have mouths.

1961
01:23:01.619 --> 01:23:03.779
Oh, they're like big pongols in their mouth.

1962
01:23:03.840 --> 01:23:05.340
Oh, they eat chicken through their necks.

1963
01:23:05.399 --> 01:23:06.060
Oh, well.

1964
01:23:06.060 --> 01:23:09.600
How unfortunate, then it has to marry Mavic Chan.

1965
01:23:09.600 --> 01:23:12.539
Just put everyone to death who annoyed me.

1966
01:23:12.600 --> 01:23:15.899
So yeah, marry mamic Chen, snogger monoids somehow.

1967
01:23:15.960 --> 01:23:19.020
It'd be interesting finding out, as Captain Jack would say, and

1968
01:23:19.020 --> 01:23:20.279
avoid the morpho brain.

1969
01:23:20.399 --> 01:23:22.140
All right, wretched.

1970
01:23:22.199 --> 01:23:22.920
Marga.

1971
01:23:22.979 --> 01:23:23.880
Oh yeah.

1972
01:23:25.319 --> 01:23:26.819
Which one?

1973
01:23:26.880 --> 01:23:27.600
Cara?

1974
01:23:27.600 --> 01:23:28.439
Theoda War.

1975
01:23:28.500 --> 01:23:30.600
This is going to be tough one, isn't it?

1976
01:23:30.659 --> 01:23:31.319
Cafe.

1977
01:23:31.380 --> 01:23:33.359
Betty cat cat.

1978
01:23:33.420 --> 01:23:34.439
Betty Cafe.

1979
01:23:34.500 --> 01:23:35.279
Is that a name?

1980
01:23:35.340 --> 01:23:36.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1981
01:23:37.500 --> 01:23:42.119
It always comes down to who's eliminate by Lease Resistance.

1982
01:23:42.180 --> 01:23:43.380
Who's the best one party with?

1983
01:23:43.439 --> 01:23:47.159
Fiona Walker, I think we all decided it was a bit drainy when we

1984
01:23:47.159 --> 01:23:48.659
were doing...

1985
01:23:48.659 --> 01:23:50.399
So, in those courtrooms.

1986
01:23:50.460 --> 01:23:53.640
I just like her in everything, so I'd probably want to snob going

1987
01:23:53.640 --> 01:23:55.199
to walkers or something wrong with them.

1988
01:23:55.260 --> 01:23:57.300
I think she'd be dangerous if you kept her around for too long.

1989
01:23:57.359 --> 01:23:58.680
She'd probably have you killed, actually.

1990
01:23:59.460 --> 01:24:02.460
But only if you blurt it out all your plans.

1991
01:24:03.300 --> 01:24:06.119
And Kaftan was another one. was she?

1992
01:24:06.180 --> 01:24:14.159
Yes. really No, no, it's the problem.

1993
01:24:14.220 --> 01:24:15.180
Who are you going to get along with?

1994
01:24:15.239 --> 01:24:15.840
Actually, you know what?

1995
01:24:15.840 --> 01:24:17.819
I'll probably have to marry if you want to walk or just pushing

1996
01:24:17.819 --> 01:24:18.539
you the most woods.

1997
01:24:18.600 --> 01:24:21.300
I think should be the most fun to hang out with because Benny's a

1998
01:24:21.300 --> 01:24:22.319
little bit single-minded.

1999
01:24:22.380 --> 01:24:25.560
I don't know that she might be, she might be fine.

2000
01:24:25.619 --> 01:24:26.819
Yeah, maybe I'll have to redress that.

2001
01:24:26.880 --> 01:24:29.699
She might be fine to party with Marga. actually.

2002
01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:34.140
Yeah, I just don't know that we're going to get on that well in

2003
01:24:34.140 --> 01:24:34.680
the end of it.

2004
01:24:34.739 --> 01:24:37.920
She'll just put me in an airlock. in a cardigan.

2005
01:24:37.979 --> 01:24:39.659
Barbara's cardigan.

2006
01:24:39.720 --> 01:24:42.840
Yeah, and we'll all just be, you know, sort of like, don't we see

2007
01:24:42.840 --> 01:24:44.279
relationships spent in a fridge?

2008
01:24:44.340 --> 01:24:47.220
So, yeah, she's probably sorry, Mark, I love you to death, but

2009
01:24:47.220 --> 01:24:48.779
death is where we're going to end up.

2010
01:24:48.840 --> 01:24:50.159
Okay.

2011
01:24:50.220 --> 01:24:50.939
Nathan.

2012
01:24:51.000 --> 01:24:52.619
It's not marry a void.

2013
01:24:52.680 --> 01:24:54.720
Sandy the Sandbanks.

2014
01:24:54.779 --> 01:24:58.199
Voltan and the carcass.

2015
01:24:58.319 --> 01:24:59.880
Or too easy.

2016
01:24:59.939 --> 01:25:06.420
I think the sand beast, Botan and the carcass. robbing that rubber

2017
01:25:06.420 --> 01:25:07.020
jumpsuit.

2018
01:25:07.079 --> 01:25:10.920
It's so awful, that costume, and it's clearly that he's not.

2019
01:25:10.979 --> 01:25:12.840
He's gorgeous.

2020
01:25:12.899 --> 01:25:14.520
Are you seeing him out of it?

2021
01:25:14.579 --> 01:25:17.579
No, I've only seen him as a Cyberman.

2022
01:25:17.579 --> 01:25:21.779
Hands on hips, everyone. like 2 of the worst performances in

2023
01:25:21.779 --> 01:25:22.920
Doctor Who history.

2024
01:25:22.979 --> 01:25:26.579
So I guess he would have to be endlessly entertaining.

2025
01:25:26.640 --> 01:25:30.300
So I'm heading towards marrying the carcass, actually, which would

2026
01:25:30.300 --> 01:25:31.979
have to make...

2027
01:25:32.039 --> 01:25:34.680
Could I slow botan without being electrocuted?

2028
01:25:34.739 --> 01:25:35.399
How would I do?

2029
01:25:35.460 --> 01:25:38.220
Yeah, I think I think it's a given that you'd survive any of

2030
01:25:38.220 --> 01:25:38.399
these.

2031
01:25:38.460 --> 01:25:39.000
Okay.

2032
01:25:39.180 --> 01:25:45.119
I buy computers.. yeah.

2033
01:25:45.180 --> 01:25:46.680
You could do them on the side.

2034
01:25:46.739 --> 01:25:48.060
I mean you don't need to talk.

2035
01:25:48.119 --> 01:25:49.260
Sandy does have tusks.

2036
01:25:49.739 --> 01:25:54.000
Yeah, unfortunate problem with Barbara's...

2037
01:25:54.000 --> 01:25:55.319
But you just shoot.

2038
01:25:55.680 --> 01:25:58.079
Baby or a firework.

2039
01:25:58.319 --> 01:26:00.899
I think I would have to...

2040
01:26:00.899 --> 01:26:04.140
I could marry Wotan and then just talk to him in our goal when I

2041
01:26:04.140 --> 01:26:05.760
got sick of him when he would explode.

2042
01:26:05.819 --> 01:26:08.340
It's actually true as well, who do you want to spend least time

2043
01:26:08.340 --> 01:26:09.899
with your mistress or your partner?

2044
01:26:09.960 --> 01:26:10.800
Yeah, yeah.

2045
01:26:10.859 --> 01:26:11.520
Yeah.

2046
01:26:11.520 --> 01:26:13.439
Okay, so...

2047
01:26:13.439 --> 01:26:14.939
Oh, marry Votan.

2048
01:26:15.000 --> 01:26:17.100
Yeah, and avoid Sandy.

2049
01:26:17.159 --> 01:26:20.460
Who would win in a showdown between Tobias Bourne and Magic Magic

2050
01:26:20.460 --> 01:26:21.119
Magic Jane?

2051
01:26:21.180 --> 01:26:21.960
Vaughan.

2052
01:26:22.020 --> 01:26:22.859
Yeah, easily.

2053
01:26:22.920 --> 01:26:24.840
Check is too kind of crazy.

2054
01:26:24.899 --> 01:26:26.760
Yeah, Thorn has a sense of humour.

2055
01:26:26.880 --> 01:26:29.939
Well, it's also it's just more higher functioning narcissist.

2056
01:26:30.000 --> 01:26:33.060
They're actually essentially the same person in many ways, aren't

2057
01:26:33.060 --> 01:26:33.239
they?

2058
01:26:33.300 --> 01:26:38.640
But yeah, yeah, he's there's definitely more of the street wise in

2059
01:26:38.640 --> 01:26:40.199
Vaughan than there is in.

2060
01:26:40.260 --> 01:26:42.239
I think Vaughn is a much.

2061
01:26:42.300 --> 01:26:44.579
There's still some punch below the bell.

2062
01:26:44.699 --> 01:26:48.720
There's still cam overacting Doctor Who villain performances, but

2063
01:26:48.720 --> 01:26:54.119
Vaughan is much more complex and interesting, I think.

2064
01:26:54.180 --> 01:26:58.140
Plus, I'm just a completely physical, no, born.

2065
01:26:58.199 --> 01:26:59.760
I just realised has a cyber body.

2066
01:26:59.819 --> 01:27:02.159
He could just He's got incredible strength.

2067
01:27:02.220 --> 01:27:04.199
And those fingernails that really do my mischief.

2068
01:27:04.260 --> 01:27:05.939
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2069
01:27:06.000 --> 01:27:07.800
Well, look at how he has to write.

2070
01:27:10.979 --> 01:27:15.539
That mid-career, Barbara Streisand, where she could never hold a

2071
01:27:15.539 --> 01:27:17.220
mic without cutting herself.

2072
01:27:17.279 --> 01:27:22.439
So is Kevin's journey your favourite guest or is it filmmatic or

2073
01:27:22.439 --> 01:27:24.239
who is your favourite guest?

2074
01:27:24.359 --> 01:27:25.800
favourite guest star.

2075
01:27:25.859 --> 01:27:27.420
You know what?

2076
01:27:27.479 --> 01:27:31.140
Because he's so underplayed and because he very rarely got any

2077
01:27:31.140 --> 01:27:34.680
lines, I'm going to go for Peter Diamond, who was the stuntman

2078
01:27:34.680 --> 01:27:37.800
many times, he did Kenton Moore's stunt walking into the River

2079
01:27:37.800 --> 01:27:41.340
Thames in Dire Convasion of Earth, but he's probably most

2080
01:27:41.340 --> 01:27:45.899
recognised for his role as Delos, Ian's little friend in the

2081
01:27:45.899 --> 01:27:46.380
Romans.

2082
01:27:46.859 --> 01:27:50.819
And of course, you know, one more time for the 60s, that was one

2083
01:27:50.819 --> 01:27:53.579
of the ones that Rod read a homerotic relationship.

2084
01:27:53.640 --> 01:27:54.239
Yes.

2085
01:27:54.239 --> 01:27:55.800
I think, and they...

2086
01:27:55.800 --> 01:27:58.319
Sheet before she wrote back the Mountain.

2087
01:27:58.380 --> 01:28:00.300
Yeah, entertaining both of them.

2088
01:28:00.359 --> 01:28:01.739
No, she doesn't.

2089
01:28:01.800 --> 01:28:03.060
She'd never written that.

2090
01:28:03.119 --> 01:28:06.840
No, what any person about Brokeback Mountain just recently saw is

2091
01:28:06.840 --> 01:28:10.500
very tired that people see this about a homerotic cowboy story and

2092
01:28:10.500 --> 01:28:11.039
nothing else.

2093
01:28:11.100 --> 01:28:13.560
And she gets bam sick every bloody day.

2094
01:28:13.619 --> 01:28:16.859
About saying, you know, one of them died and the other one, sorry

2095
01:28:16.859 --> 01:28:17.579
if you haven't seen it.

2096
01:28:17.640 --> 01:28:21.000
Read it to me. is that, you know, they keep going on and having

2097
01:28:21.000 --> 01:28:21.420
affairs.

2098
01:28:21.479 --> 01:28:22.920
She said, it's about homophobia.

2099
01:28:22.979 --> 01:28:25.739
It's about the perception of homophobia between men who are

2100
01:28:25.739 --> 01:28:28.500
ostensibly straight, and then thrown into a situation.

2101
01:28:28.560 --> 01:28:31.560
Love is love, companionship is companionship and sexuality.

2102
01:28:31.680 --> 01:28:35.579
It will a river finds its own course. needs need to be met.

2103
01:28:35.640 --> 01:28:39.479
And the home of, she, she even sees needing this to be maintained

2104
01:28:39.479 --> 01:28:44.880
as a sensibly and over and above, a queer relationship is not

2105
01:28:44.880 --> 01:28:46.140
getting the point.

2106
01:28:46.199 --> 01:28:48.960
Oh, well, if you're listening, E any proof.

2107
01:28:49.020 --> 01:28:51.300
She's a great friend of the podcast.

2108
01:28:51.359 --> 01:28:54.000
I actually read this when I was 17.

2109
01:28:54.180 --> 01:28:57.000
I read it for my HSE English and I got that at the time.

2110
01:28:57.000 --> 01:29:00.119
And of course, I was, yeah, very deep in the closet at that time.

2111
01:29:00.180 --> 01:29:03.720
But yeah, I, I, I, and it really helps.

2112
01:29:03.779 --> 01:29:06.420
Oh, well, the closet is closed.

2113
01:29:06.479 --> 01:29:08.579
And how did you get a lot of them?

2114
01:29:08.640 --> 01:29:09.600
Yes.

2115
01:29:09.659 --> 01:29:11.399
Have I got a lot of Doctor Who girls?

2116
01:29:11.460 --> 01:29:12.420
Yeah.

2117
01:29:12.420 --> 01:29:13.500
But...

2118
01:29:13.500 --> 01:29:17.520
I have actually never watched the film because for me it can't

2119
01:29:17.520 --> 01:29:17.880
live up.

2120
01:29:18.000 --> 01:29:19.739
Yeah, it's a different text.

2121
01:29:19.800 --> 01:29:20.880
It's different actually.

2122
01:29:20.939 --> 01:29:21.779
It is a bit beautiful.

2123
01:29:21.899 --> 01:29:23.460
The cinematography is spectacular.

2124
01:29:23.520 --> 01:29:25.680
But it can't live up to the personal effects.

2125
01:29:25.739 --> 01:29:27.300
That's right.

2126
01:29:27.359 --> 01:29:30.060
And I think that's a, that's a bit like Richard, your reluctance

2127
01:29:30.060 --> 01:29:33.539
to watch some of the recons because for you, those stories are the

2128
01:29:33.539 --> 01:29:33.899
novels.

2129
01:29:33.960 --> 01:29:38.159
Yeah, and the audios, and I get a purity with that that I don't

2130
01:29:38.159 --> 01:29:38.819
get with those.

2131
01:29:38.819 --> 01:29:42.060
I find that visual, if it's not the original visual, really

2132
01:29:42.060 --> 01:29:44.220
interrupts the flow of the story.

2133
01:29:44.279 --> 01:29:47.640
And I noticed that you 2 have said on some stories that I really

2134
01:29:47.640 --> 01:29:47.880
like.

2135
01:29:47.939 --> 01:29:50.340
Oh, this is interminable or that team word again.

2136
01:29:50.399 --> 01:29:52.920
And yet I really enjoy them.

2137
01:29:52.979 --> 01:29:56.220
You don't get that when you're imagination for me.

2138
01:29:56.279 --> 01:29:59.640
It's like I hate 3D films, can't go to see them, David and

2139
01:29:59.640 --> 01:30:00.060
Margaret.

2140
01:30:00.119 --> 01:30:02.460
I can't because it's interrupting the flow.

2141
01:30:02.520 --> 01:30:04.020
I don't I have my own imagination.

2142
01:30:04.079 --> 01:30:06.779
I don't need extra stuff being thrown on.

2143
01:30:06.840 --> 01:30:07.800
I can picture it myself.

2144
01:30:07.859 --> 01:30:11.039
So I don't need the visual interruptions.

2145
01:30:11.220 --> 01:30:15.239
I do actually prefer most 60s stories as audios.

2146
01:30:15.300 --> 01:30:17.880
A lot of them I'd listen to audios before.

2147
01:30:17.939 --> 01:30:19.979
Like Dalek Master Plan, I've grown.

2148
01:30:20.100 --> 01:30:20.819
Great audio.

2149
01:30:20.880 --> 01:30:22.920
Thank you, because Victoria, you're going to say, would we

2150
01:30:22.920 --> 01:30:24.359
recommend something that doesn't exist?

2151
01:30:24.479 --> 01:30:26.640
I listen to master plan many times.

2152
01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:27.840
It's wonderful, is it?

2153
01:30:27.899 --> 01:30:28.439
It is great.

2154
01:30:28.500 --> 01:30:29.399
I enjoy it more each time.

2155
01:30:29.460 --> 01:30:32.939
But I did I did want to be able to develop an opinion about the

2156
01:30:32.939 --> 01:30:35.880
design and, you know, what you could determine from the clinical

2157
01:30:35.880 --> 01:30:36.479
pervert.

2158
01:30:36.479 --> 01:30:41.939
And so I was a little bit I was a little bit OCD about making sure

2159
01:30:41.939 --> 01:30:44.699
that everything I watched, you know, in whatever form.

2160
01:30:44.760 --> 01:30:45.420
It was available.

2161
01:30:45.479 --> 01:30:47.220
What was the question?

2162
01:30:47.279 --> 01:30:48.899
It doesn't really matter.

2163
01:30:48.960 --> 01:30:51.479
My question was, who was your favourite gift starter?

2164
01:30:52.140 --> 01:30:54.899
I'm just going to say again, Peter Diamond.

2165
01:30:54.960 --> 01:30:58.079
I just couldn't get my picture away from just how the usual Peter

2166
01:30:58.079 --> 01:30:59.939
down what a little diamond in the rough he was.

2167
01:31:00.960 --> 01:31:02.819
There are so many.

2168
01:31:02.880 --> 01:31:06.060
I think I probably answered that by answering another question.

2169
01:31:06.119 --> 01:31:12.359
I mean, I, I guess, is pretty remarkable, you know, in the 2 roles

2170
01:31:12.359 --> 01:31:14.880
that he has in season six.

2171
01:31:14.939 --> 01:31:19.739
Not to mention broccoli, cubby broccoli in cubby broccoli

2172
01:31:19.739 --> 01:31:22.319
obviously, in the in that dalek film.

2173
01:31:22.380 --> 01:31:27.060
Um, he is he's pretty spectacular and he will come back a couple

2174
01:31:27.060 --> 01:31:29.100
of times before the show's finished.

2175
01:31:29.159 --> 01:31:30.720
We have to mention Roberta Toby.

2176
01:31:30.779 --> 01:31:33.060
Every, again, you go to.

2177
01:31:33.119 --> 01:31:34.079
Oh, no, no, terrible.

2178
01:31:34.199 --> 01:31:35.640
She actually great in the 2nd film.

2179
01:31:35.699 --> 01:31:36.720
She runs the story.

2180
01:31:36.779 --> 01:31:38.640
She's the plucky young heroine.

2181
01:31:38.699 --> 01:31:39.539
Yeah, Roberto Tone.

2182
01:31:39.600 --> 01:31:41.340
If I had picked someone...

2183
01:31:41.579 --> 01:31:43.140
You know what?

2184
01:31:43.199 --> 01:31:45.720
If I had to pick an artist from the films to come into the

2185
01:31:45.720 --> 01:31:46.079
series.

2186
01:31:46.500 --> 01:31:49.260
I love the idea of a younger Susan.

2187
01:31:49.319 --> 01:31:49.979
How amazing.

2188
01:31:50.039 --> 01:31:53.340
And then we would have avoided all those problems of the sexuality

2189
01:31:53.340 --> 01:31:56.579
of the younger person and, you know, just because we talked about

2190
01:31:56.579 --> 01:31:59.279
the rapiness and all of that or that she always needs to be

2191
01:31:59.279 --> 01:31:59.699
rescued.

2192
01:31:59.760 --> 01:32:02.340
If Susan had been a little girl, totally different.

2193
01:32:02.399 --> 01:32:04.680
And I will also... like Amelia Pond.

2194
01:32:04.739 --> 01:32:05.819
How amazing that would have been.

2195
01:32:05.880 --> 01:32:09.300
I will also say that by pushing forward Roberta Toby in that.

2196
01:32:09.420 --> 01:32:13.140
I could take a lead Peter Cushing being in Doctor Who, the main

2197
01:32:13.140 --> 01:32:14.039
series proper.

2198
01:32:14.100 --> 01:32:16.199
I thought he'd do a great job in the films, but I would love to

2199
01:32:16.199 --> 01:32:18.239
see more of Reverse Hovey in anything.

2200
01:32:18.300 --> 01:32:19.079
Oh wow.

2201
01:32:19.079 --> 01:32:20.819
Best Billy Floss.

2202
01:32:24.239 --> 01:32:26.819
I think it's the ones that were trying it out.

2203
01:32:26.939 --> 01:32:31.079
Maybe I should say like the best comedy moments that's not meant

2204
01:32:31.079 --> 01:32:33.359
to be comedy, but it could be Billy, it could be somebody else, you

2205
01:32:33.359 --> 01:32:33.539
know.

2206
01:32:33.600 --> 01:32:34.619
That's the great thing.

2207
01:32:34.680 --> 01:32:35.640
We don't know, do we?

2208
01:32:35.699 --> 01:32:37.619
How much of it was in covering up?

2209
01:32:37.680 --> 01:32:43.260
Sentimental value for me goes to, um, if you had had your shoes

2210
01:32:43.260 --> 01:32:46.680
you could have lent her hers because I adapted that for the 1st

2211
01:32:46.680 --> 01:32:49.800
introduction to the podcast where I say we're the only Doctor Who

2212
01:32:49.800 --> 01:32:50.939
podcast where...

2213
01:32:50.939 --> 01:32:53.340
And I did...

2214
01:32:53.399 --> 01:32:53.640
Yeah.

2215
01:32:53.640 --> 01:32:54.060
Yeah.

2216
01:32:54.119 --> 01:32:56.159
And I didn't know if that would work and you 2 guys laughed.

2217
01:32:56.220 --> 01:32:57.239
I'm like, right, that'll work.

2218
01:32:57.300 --> 01:32:59.640
So that's that's got to be mine.

2219
01:32:59.699 --> 01:33:02.159
Like, if you had her shoes, you could have lent her hers because

2220
01:33:02.159 --> 01:33:04.859
and I think also because It could have been a fluff, but at the

2221
01:33:04.859 --> 01:33:05.880
same time it works for the character.

2222
01:33:06.119 --> 01:33:12.779
So I think it was some, is it one of the sense, right, who uh, he's

2223
01:33:12.779 --> 01:33:13.800
someone over talking?

2224
01:33:13.859 --> 01:33:14.460
Yes.

2225
01:33:14.460 --> 01:33:15.300
I think it is.

2226
01:33:15.359 --> 01:33:19.380
So they're desperately desperate about how to finish that line

2227
01:33:19.380 --> 01:33:20.520
kind of losing their way.

2228
01:33:20.579 --> 01:33:25.680
But sentimentally, I think my favourite Billy Fluff is the lost in

2229
01:33:25.680 --> 01:33:30.600
Spain one where he just says you'll end up as a pair of burnt out

2230
01:33:30.600 --> 01:33:34.140
cinders floating about in Spain, space.

2231
01:33:34.199 --> 01:33:36.359
I think partly the reason that I like it.

2232
01:33:36.420 --> 01:33:40.020
And again, I've talked about this scene already, this episode. is

2233
01:33:40.020 --> 01:33:44.399
the scene is so emotional and the doctor is so upset that it kind

2234
01:33:44.399 --> 01:33:48.300
of is understandable that he gets blustered and can't complete his

2235
01:33:48.300 --> 01:33:49.199
line properly.

2236
01:33:49.260 --> 01:33:52.260
So while it's sort of hilarious and we're constantly talking about

2237
01:33:52.260 --> 01:33:55.500
adventures in Spain and time and all of that sort of thing.

2238
01:33:55.560 --> 01:33:58.199
I think it has a little emotional content as well.

2239
01:33:58.260 --> 01:34:00.300
So that's my favourite Billy Club, frankly.

2240
01:34:00.359 --> 01:34:00.840
Richard?

2241
01:34:00.899 --> 01:34:02.699
How can you go past the mountain goat?

2242
01:34:02.760 --> 01:34:06.300
Yeah And besides, I prefer walking any day.

2243
01:34:06.420 --> 01:34:07.140
That's right.

2244
01:34:07.739 --> 01:34:12.539
Or indeed prizing Chatterton off the fornicator.

2245
01:34:12.600 --> 01:34:15.479
I should say, which didn't get kept in although it's in the

2246
01:34:15.479 --> 01:34:17.579
adventures in Spain and time, isn't it?

2247
01:34:18.659 --> 01:34:24.300
I've also been quite fond of in the Space Museum of some

2248
01:34:24.300 --> 01:34:29.460
phosphorus and substance in the walls, mainly because it's a 2

2249
01:34:29.460 --> 01:34:32.760
shot of Billy and Jackie's faces and Jackie doesn't even blink.

2250
01:34:32.819 --> 01:34:36.180
Jackie just sort of keeps nodding like, yes, doctor, what you're

2251
01:34:36.180 --> 01:34:36.899
saying is perfect sense.

2252
01:34:36.960 --> 01:34:39.060
So that's mostly for Jackie Rob, the Billy.

2253
01:34:39.060 --> 01:34:40.140
All right.

2254
01:34:40.199 --> 01:34:42.300
I've only got a couple of questions remaining.

2255
01:34:42.359 --> 01:34:43.319
Your dream team.

2256
01:34:43.380 --> 01:34:45.119
You had to take a doctor.

2257
01:34:45.539 --> 01:34:48.539
And a set of companions who is your dream.

2258
01:34:49.020 --> 01:34:51.600
It can be for me that, you know, I don't know.

2259
01:34:51.600 --> 01:34:53.039
It's hard to just thrown up, isn't it?

2260
01:34:53.100 --> 01:34:54.779
It's really easy.

2261
01:34:54.840 --> 01:35:00.840
It's just the 1st doctor, Barbara, Ian and Vicky, just about my

2262
01:35:00.840 --> 01:35:02.159
favourite companion group.

2263
01:35:02.159 --> 01:35:05.699
So I don't have to go do anachronism or anything like that.

2264
01:35:05.699 --> 01:35:07.079
She's my favourite.

2265
01:35:07.140 --> 01:35:10.560
I only have to do a slight anachronym because I would say the 2nd

2266
01:35:10.560 --> 01:35:12.359
doctor in Barbara and Vicki.

2267
01:35:12.420 --> 01:35:13.260
Oh, that would be something.

2268
01:35:13.319 --> 01:35:16.859
But you wouldn't get Hartnell and Jackie together.

2269
01:35:16.859 --> 01:35:20.699
And I think that that's one of the kind of key elements of that

2270
01:35:20.699 --> 01:35:21.659
TARS crew.

2271
01:35:21.779 --> 01:35:25.560
You see, I think you would get Paddy flirting with Jackie and

2272
01:35:25.560 --> 01:35:28.020
Jackie just completely going, nah, nah.

2273
01:35:28.079 --> 01:35:31.260
So don't again, you get to choose one that is established.

2274
01:35:31.319 --> 01:35:35.220
I would actually go for Pat Jamie and Zoe, possibly because they

2275
01:35:35.220 --> 01:35:36.840
were my 1st black and white team.

2276
01:35:36.899 --> 01:35:39.180
We're staying within the 60s, aren't we?

2277
01:35:39.239 --> 01:35:43.979
That's correct Well, more of Billy and Billy getting support, I'd

2278
01:35:43.979 --> 01:35:48.600
like to see Billy and Barbara going for the 4 years, so to speak

2279
01:35:48.600 --> 01:35:50.220
and I'd like curse to you.

2280
01:35:50.279 --> 01:35:54.119
I'd like Hannah Gordon as the companion. if we go into the 60s.

2281
01:35:54.180 --> 01:35:57.659
And maybe Jamie can stay on the Battle of Cologne chasing that red

2282
01:35:57.659 --> 01:36:01.199
coat and to a beautiful relationship somewhere over there, though.

2283
01:36:01.319 --> 01:36:03.539
And we've got that Kirsty into a war game.

2284
01:36:03.600 --> 01:36:05.520
Can I just have more women, please?

2285
01:36:05.579 --> 01:36:06.359
That would be good too.

2286
01:36:06.420 --> 01:36:10.800
That is a great response and it does trigger my mind as to my

2287
01:36:10.800 --> 01:36:13.920
question I was going to ask, which one character should have been

2288
01:36:13.920 --> 01:36:15.180
a companion, wasn't it?

2289
01:36:15.180 --> 01:36:16.439
And you just that for me.

2290
01:36:16.500 --> 01:36:19.560
You guys, anybody that you think should have been picked up and?

2291
01:36:19.739 --> 01:36:21.539
Oh, Samantha Briggs.

2292
01:36:21.600 --> 01:36:22.500
Really?

2293
01:36:22.560 --> 01:36:24.899
Yeah.

2294
01:36:24.899 --> 01:36:25.500
Is she that?

2295
01:36:25.500 --> 01:36:26.279
Great though.

2296
01:36:26.340 --> 01:36:29.039
I mean, wouldn't it get a bit great in Sicily?

2297
01:36:29.100 --> 01:36:32.039
turned out she would have had an RP accent probably.

2298
01:36:32.100 --> 01:36:35.279
Yeah, it started spraying and whinge. that's right No, no, well, I

2299
01:36:35.279 --> 01:36:38.159
mean, you know, she's a great actress and she had real chemistry

2300
01:36:38.159 --> 01:36:39.060
with Jamie.

2301
01:36:39.119 --> 01:36:39.779
It was...

2302
01:36:39.840 --> 01:36:42.600
She actually made him a lot more interesting, not offence to the

2303
01:36:42.600 --> 01:36:46.140
actor, but the characters, well, Jamie was more interesting with

2304
01:36:46.140 --> 01:36:46.319
her.

2305
01:36:46.380 --> 01:36:46.619
Yeah.

2306
01:36:46.680 --> 01:36:50.279
She's the one who's most obviously being groomed to be a companion

2307
01:36:50.279 --> 01:36:50.460
I think.

2308
01:36:50.579 --> 01:36:51.060
Yeah.

2309
01:36:51.119 --> 01:36:52.020
Well, she was off it.

2310
01:36:52.079 --> 01:36:52.260
Yeah.

2311
01:36:52.260 --> 01:36:54.119
For me, Jim McCallen.

2312
01:36:55.859 --> 01:36:58.739
It's a very not the reanimated course of just.

2313
01:36:58.800 --> 01:37:01.800
No, no, no, no, sorry, I am going to take that back.

2314
01:37:01.859 --> 01:37:06.720
She still would have been great, but...

2315
01:37:06.779 --> 01:37:07.319
Maria.

2316
01:37:07.319 --> 01:37:09.359
Oh, Maria. let me say this.

2317
01:37:09.420 --> 01:37:09.899
Hang on now.

2318
01:37:09.960 --> 01:37:13.560
Gemma Cole, we're talking...

2319
01:37:13.619 --> 01:37:14.939
What did you about Gia Kelly?

2320
01:37:16.079 --> 01:37:18.300
I mean, she's and she's great.

2321
01:37:18.359 --> 01:37:19.079
Travis.

2322
01:37:19.140 --> 01:37:21.479
And Travis. you know, she was meant to be.

2323
01:37:21.539 --> 01:37:25.439
She's not only the least short character in the 70s, that was

2324
01:37:25.439 --> 01:37:28.739
envisioned, but she was actually meant to be back for invasion.

2325
01:37:29.100 --> 01:37:30.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2326
01:37:30.779 --> 01:37:32.279
Yeah, you said Korean.

2327
01:37:32.340 --> 01:37:32.939
Korea.

2328
01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:34.199
Korea is my 1st one.

2329
01:37:34.260 --> 01:37:35.399
Yes, yes, thank you for everything.

2330
01:37:35.520 --> 01:37:36.720
Because Korea would have been so me.

2331
01:37:36.779 --> 01:37:40.020
First, she would be, she's a strong female character. written

2332
01:37:40.020 --> 01:37:40.619
intelligently.

2333
01:37:40.680 --> 01:37:44.279
She has a very similar backstory to Victoria in that she's an

2334
01:37:44.279 --> 01:37:46.199
orphan, but you know, she is angry about it.

2335
01:37:46.260 --> 01:37:50.460
And, yeah, she she is out to destroy the world.

2336
01:37:50.699 --> 01:37:55.619
She's actually the ace character, but more but more mature and

2337
01:37:55.619 --> 01:37:57.899
more intelligently written in the 1st part than yeah.

2338
01:37:57.960 --> 01:37:59.880
And she is a non-Caucasian actor.

2339
01:37:59.939 --> 01:38:01.439
Which was...

2340
01:38:01.439 --> 01:38:02.579
It's okay to say black, I think.

2341
01:38:02.640 --> 01:38:06.239
Well, I'm just saying in general, non-Caucasian actors were very

2342
01:38:06.239 --> 01:38:08.819
uncommon in 60s, Dr. who continued to do.

2343
01:38:08.880 --> 01:38:09.720
They're not, actually.

2344
01:38:09.779 --> 01:38:12.779
They're much more common than they are in the 70s, I think.

2345
01:38:12.840 --> 01:38:15.720
Maybe that's something we will discover very soon.

2346
01:38:15.779 --> 01:38:16.380
Yeah, actually.

2347
01:38:16.439 --> 01:38:18.779
Okay, final... final question.

2348
01:38:18.840 --> 01:38:21.359
Your nomination to the whole same.

2349
01:38:21.420 --> 01:38:22.859
The horn of fame.

2350
01:38:22.920 --> 01:38:23.880
Hall of Fame.

2351
01:38:24.000 --> 01:38:25.020
Who gets the horn?

2352
01:38:25.800 --> 01:38:27.479
Snigger.

2353
01:38:27.659 --> 01:38:29.640
Go back to that game.

2354
01:38:29.640 --> 01:38:31.079
I'm going to rustle on the thing.

2355
01:38:31.140 --> 01:38:33.720
Like, it has to be either trout.

2356
01:38:33.840 --> 01:38:35.039
Do you know what I mean?

2357
01:38:35.100 --> 01:38:38.460
who rescues the program where when it's doing something massively

2358
01:38:38.460 --> 01:38:44.159
desperate and risky and crazy by recasting the lead with no

2359
01:38:44.159 --> 01:38:45.180
explanation.

2360
01:38:45.239 --> 01:38:47.579
And because, as you said, yeah, a few people could have done what

2361
01:38:47.579 --> 01:38:48.180
throughout.

2362
01:38:48.239 --> 01:38:51.119
And he's the template for all subsequent doctors, people don't

2363
01:38:51.119 --> 01:38:54.000
base their performances of heart and all, and even the idea of

2364
01:38:54.000 --> 01:38:56.880
what the doctor is like is largely established by Trouton.

2365
01:38:56.939 --> 01:38:58.920
But maybe it has to be his mother verity.

2366
01:38:58.979 --> 01:39:00.359
Yes.

2367
01:39:00.539 --> 01:39:01.619
Do you know what I mean?

2368
01:39:01.680 --> 01:39:03.239
Like, um, yeah.

2369
01:39:03.420 --> 01:39:06.239
Um, Sydney Newman.

2370
01:39:06.300 --> 01:39:11.640
But not, you know, not really for dreaming up the concept of the

2371
01:39:11.640 --> 01:39:14.039
program, because it's arguable how much of it he came up with.

2372
01:39:14.159 --> 01:39:15.060
Very little apparently.

2373
01:39:15.119 --> 01:39:16.560
You just skirted them off, yeah.

2374
01:39:16.619 --> 01:39:19.920
But what several people have said he did do was when Patrick

2375
01:39:19.920 --> 01:39:22.560
Troughton was coming into it and wanted to black up and put a

2376
01:39:22.560 --> 01:39:26.159
turban on or put on a false beard or pretty much to pretty much

2377
01:39:26.159 --> 01:39:27.239
turn it into a caricature.

2378
01:39:27.239 --> 01:39:29.640
Sydney Newman came in and said, no, no, no, we want simple.

2379
01:39:29.699 --> 01:39:32.220
What about what about the cosmic hobo ID you had?

2380
01:39:32.279 --> 01:39:34.199
And Patrick took that and ran with it?

2381
01:39:34.260 --> 01:39:36.000
I think...

2382
01:39:36.060 --> 01:39:39.600
Yeah, Patrick saved the show, but without that simple idea of, no

2383
01:39:39.600 --> 01:39:42.779
no, no, you're not playing a caricature, you are playing a

2384
01:39:42.779 --> 01:39:44.279
character. keep it simple.

2385
01:39:44.340 --> 01:39:47.760
I think without that, the show would have died before we even got

2386
01:39:47.760 --> 01:39:48.300
the yeti.

2387
01:39:48.479 --> 01:39:52.380
So there would have been that to a big separate.

2388
01:39:52.439 --> 01:39:53.819
We wouldn't be here.

2389
01:39:53.880 --> 01:39:55.439
Yes, he is so stupid.

2390
01:39:56.880 --> 01:40:00.840
I like the I like the context thing, though, that they throw A

2391
01:40:00.840 --> 01:40:04.859
into Amos to enter B scenario and you can really literally throw

2392
01:40:04.859 --> 01:40:08.399
anything for the tooting beck, but Lou could have been a monster

2393
01:40:08.399 --> 01:40:10.619
itself. by the end of it.

2394
01:40:12.420 --> 01:40:16.920
I feel like we talk about the dream team and we've talked about

2395
01:40:16.920 --> 01:40:19.800
Mark Davis's adventures in space and time.

2396
01:40:19.800 --> 01:40:23.760
And for the obvious omission of that is something we talk about

2397
01:40:23.760 --> 01:40:25.560
all the time, Whittaker wasn't talked about.

2398
01:40:25.619 --> 01:40:29.100
Wasn't nothing in the in the space and time.

2399
01:40:29.159 --> 01:40:30.479
Yeah, he sort of took on the Whittaker.

2400
01:40:30.539 --> 01:40:31.199
Yeah, interesting.

2401
01:40:31.260 --> 01:40:33.359
And I just think that that's such an omission.

2402
01:40:33.420 --> 01:40:37.260
Um, We took a script, everything is one of, is the major reason it

2403
01:40:37.260 --> 01:40:40.380
had the sense of mystery and oddness, verity was holding it all

2404
01:40:40.380 --> 01:40:43.619
together and visionary that she allowed people to do wondrous

2405
01:40:43.619 --> 01:40:45.840
things, but I don't know how much creative role she had.

2406
01:40:45.899 --> 01:40:46.800
I don't think she had the time.

2407
01:40:46.859 --> 01:40:47.520
No.

2408
01:40:47.520 --> 01:40:50.880
I think Whitaker creates the TARDIS properly understands the

2409
01:40:50.880 --> 01:40:51.539
dialect.

2410
01:40:51.600 --> 01:40:56.760
And it's Whitaker that allows the doctor to be all of these spiky

2411
01:40:56.760 --> 01:40:59.760
fracture things that are uncomfortable, but still bring back his

2412
01:40:59.760 --> 01:41:00.300
humanity.

2413
01:41:00.420 --> 01:41:04.859
And then it's the performances of Jacqueline Hill and the other

2414
01:41:04.859 --> 01:41:07.260
cast that bring that all together.

2415
01:41:07.319 --> 01:41:10.500
But yeah, I think Whittaker is a really important part of that

2416
01:41:10.500 --> 01:41:11.159
chemistry.

2417
01:41:20.220 --> 01:41:23.039
Well, dear listeners, I don't want to thank the gentleman for the

2418
01:41:23.039 --> 01:41:24.060
air romance today.

2419
01:41:24.119 --> 01:41:25.619
It's been...

2420
01:41:25.619 --> 01:41:27.000
I've been changing years.

2421
01:41:27.119 --> 01:41:29.279
It has been for me, you know, asking.

2422
01:41:29.819 --> 01:41:33.420
And of course, you know, we're heading into the 70s and there's

2423
01:41:33.420 --> 01:41:37.979
some burning questions that, you know, we will need ants, Rodan or

2424
01:41:37.979 --> 01:41:38.520
Romana.

2425
01:41:38.579 --> 01:41:40.800
Gala free or gala free.

2426
01:41:40.859 --> 01:41:43.199
Sarah Jane or Sarah?

2427
01:41:43.260 --> 01:41:45.720
The Eocenes or Siurians.

2428
01:41:45.779 --> 01:41:48.180
Which unit captain is the best?

2429
01:41:48.239 --> 01:41:50.699
Turner, Monroe, Hawkins, or Yates.

2430
01:41:50.760 --> 01:41:55.560
How large was Lee Shaw's expense account for those glamorous props

2431
01:41:55.560 --> 01:41:56.340
of hairs?

2432
01:41:56.399 --> 01:42:00.659
Our 7 episode stories worth their weight in gold, and will we get

2433
01:42:00.659 --> 01:42:04.380
a funky 70s remix of the podcast theme too?

2434
01:42:04.979 --> 01:42:06.720
Can only know.

2435
01:42:06.779 --> 01:42:07.859
Thank you.

2436
01:42:07.920 --> 01:42:09.420
Thanks for everyone.

2437
01:42:09.479 --> 01:42:10.260
Thank you all for listening.

2438
01:42:16.319 --> 01:42:19.380
You've been listening to Flat Mentality with Nathan Botany, Roman

2439
01:42:19.380 --> 01:42:21.960
James, Richard Sodan, special guest star, Todd Bielby.

2440
01:42:22.020 --> 01:42:25.619
This episode, how can you snog a monoid was recorded on the 30th

2441
01:42:25.619 --> 01:42:26.880
of December, 2014?

2442
01:42:26.939 --> 01:42:29.640
The next episode would be released on January 17th.

2443
01:42:29.699 --> 01:42:33.119
We wish to dedicate this episode to the memory of Bernard Kay, who

2444
01:42:33.119 --> 01:42:36.119
appeared in several 1960s Doctor Who stories, and it still has one

2445
01:42:36.119 --> 01:42:36.600
more coming up.

2446
01:42:40.140 --> 01:42:43.920
I'm wondering if you're going to start incorporating snob barrier

2447
01:42:43.920 --> 01:42:44.880
void into your classes.

2448
01:42:44.939 --> 01:42:45.659
Oh, awesome.

2449
01:42:45.659 --> 01:42:47.220
So, boys, in the LA.

2450
01:42:47.340 --> 01:42:48.960
Stop merry boys.

2451
01:42:48.960 --> 01:42:51.600
I'm a chocolates.

2452
01:42:51.659 --> 01:42:54.239
I think I think we have to do it for the...

2453
01:42:54.960 --> 01:42:57.239
In Oedipus the King.

2454
01:42:57.300 --> 01:42:59.699
Oh, it takes on a hole.