WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 17:43:18

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Hello, Delissa, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety, the

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only Doctor Who podcast still without a catchphrase after 200

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episodes, but we're leaning towards marvellous.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Peter.

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I'm feeling pretty fantastic for this one too.

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Well, we've flown all the way through the entirety of the 1st era

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of Doctor Who's 21st century incarnation, and so it's time to

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pause, regroup, and reassess before we head off into the wilds of

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the Stephen Moffatt era.

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Ladies and gentlemen, and trees and multiforms.

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Welcome to the Russell T. Davis retrospective.

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I want to start with the deepest questions possible.

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So it's time for a Snog Marrier boy.

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I want my bit of Mary Tam's cake that's been in the fridge for 200

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years, if this is our anniversary.

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So Snog, Mary, avoid.

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Planet of Dead, waters of Mars, the end of time.

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I'm going to snog the end of time because it's fun, but I don't

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think it has that much staying power and I imagine it'd grow

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tiresome after, you know, quite a while.

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I want to marry, um, Planet of the Dead, because I just think it's

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terrifically fun, uh, and I will never grow weary of it, and I

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want to avoid waters of Mars.

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Well, I concur completely with you.

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Anyone else?

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Well, I think you'd quite like to marry Planet of the Dead, because

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who wouldn't want to lie in the sun all day long?

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Yeah, I'm not slogging those flies.

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Okay, so for this retrospective, we are looking at not only Russet

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T. Davies, but obviously David Tennant and Christopher Eccleston's

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time on the show, and I actually put some questions out on Twitter

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to some of our listeners, so they're going to be in the mix as

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well, so get ready for them.

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And we may as well start off with one.

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Professor Quitemes.

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Pete Lambert, ask this question.

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Why didn't he sound Scottish?

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I think you know the answer to this, don't you, Richard?

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Oh, because RTD said he's not going to be rattling up and down the

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M4 with accent.

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He's not reliving Dodo's career.

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But wasn't it also that he's supposed to absorb the character of

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his, of whom, with whom he is and his most emotional bond and at

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that point, that was cockney tooths and Billy Piper.

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I think there's dialogue, Cartram, the Christmas invasion, isn't

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there?

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To that end?

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Something like that.

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But I think it was.

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We're not doing a showcase of Britain's regional accents, was kind

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of the idea.

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Also, it was a little bit weird, doctor from Scotland filmed in

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Wales.

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It's like.

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I think he would have been better off without it, because I think

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he's sort of quite brooding and sexy in Broadchurch, and I just

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think that the accent hampers him, and the accent seems to get

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worse and worse as he goes on.

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I think Moffat puts a lovely bubble around it, doesn't he?

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Calling him Dick Van Dyke.

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It's also Russell's vision of the show is very London centric

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which is why, you know, you're always visiting London landmarks

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and things like that.

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And so I think it was only natural extension once you'd lost

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Eccleston to go for a very London doctor.

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Yeah.

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I think that Russell just thought, well, David's such a big fan.

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He's going to be coming back to do every single special from now

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into eternity.

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So just as a bit of perverse fun, I'm going to force him to

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actually have an English accent, even when he's 80, you know

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coming back to do these specials.

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That's my take on the whole thing.

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It's a bit of, it's a bit of fun from Russell.

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It's the accent that he does in Casanova as well, I think, which

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was kind of his audition piece.

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Yeah, And I think that's actually the reason we've got it because

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it was, you know, it was trial and worked for that.

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And also, I do find him a little bit difficult to follow in the

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same way that I found Dearest Sylvester that I, at the time, was

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begging for the DVD, so I could actually understand what he was

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saying back in the early 90s.

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And even with Capaldi, I have moments of what?

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I think the Americans have that same that same problem.

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I think that's right that maybe you wanted to channel David from

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Casanova because that was a very sexy take on that character and I

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think you needed some of that vibrant young energy for the role.

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Yeah.

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Speaking of sexy.

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Stephen Alexander has asked this question.

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It's definitely implied that the 10th doctor has sex at some

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point.

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Have any of the previous doctors had sex?

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I don't know, are we talking about members of the crew?

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I don't know, Peter, are we?

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Other cast members?

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God, I'm just thinking of our dear Billy Hartnall and his... and

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that very fluffy monoptera.

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It's come here, the commander of the ark.

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We know what they were doing in that security kitchen.

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Look, I choose to think that only pre-hearten or doctors have had

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sex.

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Ah, okay.

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But certainly they often want to have sex and quite visibly so, I

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think.

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I think Astrid was someone who appealed very much to the doctor

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and he can barely keep his hands off her.

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And Judith Paris, I think, was probably in considerable moral

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danger as well.

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Absolutely.

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The 6th doctor lingered a little while in front of those nappy men

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before running away.

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He did with a massive safety pin betwixt his front teeth.

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This episode will never air.

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But Tom was definitely polishing his rock collection as soon as

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Eltrad made her appearance, didn't he?

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He was definitely getting out his boy's own crystal radio set

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wasn't he?

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tuning her up. you know, with Chris Eccleston and Jabe in end...

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Dynamic stuff.

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Definitely got some wood on for that one.

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No idea where I'm going with that.

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So okay, so we're talking about David Tennant, obviously, and what

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he has brought to the role.

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As we sit here now at the end of his era, watch your feelings

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towards him and what you've discovered in this rewatch.

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I think David Tennant is wonderful.

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I mean, I know he's a little bit polarising.

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There are, you know, amongst this podcast as well.

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You know, we don't always rate his performance, but I think he

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delivers every time.

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And there was something about his performance that was so

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accessible to the general public, that the series profile and

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popularity just went through the roof when he was the doctor.

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And I think that he is a big part of that.

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So not only was he a very good accessible doctor, which may be a

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reason why diehard fans, myself included, don't rate him amongst

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one of the best because he's quite broad.

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There was something about his charisma that really elevated the

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series, and you could see it on British television when he was the

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doctor.

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He was everywhere.

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He was around talk shows, sketch shows.

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He would host comedy shows and things.

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You couldn't get away from him so much so that when the end of

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time went out and he was on the Christmas I dent.

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People started to question, is there too much, David Tennant

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because he was all over the place?

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And I think he was so good for the series, and so competent and so

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kind of invested in the series that it would be churlish to take

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anything away from him.

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I think that's a hugely underrated part of the job is the job of

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being an ambassador for the show on TV.

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And the 1st season didn't have that.

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Like Eccleston gave a sort of fairly reluctant interview, which is

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on the DVDs, but obviously he'd kind of left the production in a

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sort of sort of fairly unhappy frame of mind.

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And did turn up on Blue Peter that wants to surprise some little

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kitties, which I love him for.

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Okay, wonderful.

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I haven't seen that.

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But Tennant does a brilliant job of that.

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And he's just whip smart and charming and like super likeable and

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I think he does it really, very well.

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And he's one of us.

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He's a fan, you know, he can tell you a curse of Peladon from your

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monster of Peladon.

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He amazing.

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He makes a monoid joke in the... in the in the commentary on

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Forest of the Dead that was released at the time, which can be

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found somewhere on the FDA website.

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It's wonderful.

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He does this little trick with his ping pong balls popping them

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out, does he?

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That's it.

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I've seen that movie.

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Yes.

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Richard, what do you think of David?

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Oh, I'm rattling up and down the M1 and M4 as well.

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I look at the time.

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I thought he was glorious for all the reasons that you're saying

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he does glow on screen in a way.

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I mean, Tom described pertly as being incandescent.

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I think you can say the same for our David, and he does that very

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consciously and with great, with great a sense of tactics in the

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way he approaches the role.

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It's like I'm watching a war gamer.

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He definitely knows what he's doing.

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And there's a lot of, especially in the last, in these last story

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the end of time, which, you know, is really just a, it's a big end

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soap, isn't it?

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There's a, yeah, I know we just did that this last 2 weeks, but

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it's, he manages it where it's actually a very difficult thing to

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do when you've got all of this hoop plug going on and it's really

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Barnum and Bailey.

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So to maintain gravitas during all of this, I think if we hadn't

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had burner cribbons, it wouldn't have worked.

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And I think that's actually the case with a lot of David's

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performances.

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They're a little too much for me at the time and watching them

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again.

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I really am with Stephen Moffatt.

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Maybe it was, maybe it's the accent.

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I don't, but I just maybe just also think that's the way Mr

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Tennant approaches things.

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But if it weren't for Billy and Catherine and Freema, Definitely

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Bernard Cribbens, he seems to work best or be at his most, how can

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I put it, his most soluble, because otherwise I find him quite

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brittle.

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He's actually like a bit of shellac and you don't really want that

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in your mouth, do you?

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It's like biting a bit of old furniture.

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He's just so he's sort of brittle.

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It should be like toffee, but it's actually kind of tastes quite

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unpleasant once you've got him close.

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It's just the way that his brittleness of his acting.

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But he's one of those people that works best against a very good

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professional.

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So Russell definitely could see, I feel, his strengths and

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weaknesses, and you need someone as subtle as Russell is, who is

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all about the empathy with his performers to get that right.

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So yes, I feel that when we talk about tenant, we really need to

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talk about the so-called supporting cast.

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And also after Eccleston, who I think was very important to bring

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the actor back to the doctor, make sure that there was a good

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actor and a subtle actor playing him, you then needed to show that

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the doctor could still be a showman.

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And that's what David brings to the role as well.

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He's a very good actor, but he's also a showman on and offscreen.

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I've been surprised at the rewatch at how much I've actually

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enjoyed his performances.

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And I think, I mean, Nathan, you're nodding ahead, but it's one of

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the things that I really discovered that it was far less annoying

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than I had in my head, and I just was constantly surprised at how

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effortless and enjoyable he was to actually watch.

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And perhaps I only got a bit tired towards the end of his doctor.

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But certainly in that middle season, you know, 2 and 3 in the

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beginning of four, I really just was surprised at how much I was

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just enjoying him.

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I think that's my experience as well.

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I think I may have said before.

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I always find him much better than I expect him to be.

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And he never lets you down either.

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If there's a big moment which needs to be killed or whatever, he

247
00:12:34.259 --> 00:12:38.879
does it, the scenes I can think of where I don't think he delivers

248
00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:41.340
the best performance is always because the materials let him

249
00:12:41.340 --> 00:12:41.519
down.

250
00:12:41.580 --> 00:12:42.179
Right.

251
00:12:42.179 --> 00:12:45.840
So I'm thinking of that scene at the end of the doctor's daughter

252
00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:49.139
where he has to become really overwrought and the gun and I never

253
00:12:49.139 --> 00:12:51.899
would and all of that, very, very hard to pull off.

254
00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:52.740
Has a good stab at it though.

255
00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:57.779
Yeah, I think, I mean, I've said before in the last year that

256
00:12:57.779 --> 00:13:01.379
Waters of Mars, for instance, that performance at the end, like

257
00:13:01.379 --> 00:13:05.519
giving him the teeth acting opportunities, that that gives him

258
00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:07.259
that's a bad choice.

259
00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:11.100
Like, I do find that really alienating an off-putting.

260
00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:13.139
It is the era of the teeth, isn't it?

261
00:13:13.259 --> 00:13:17.399
A rich maximum toothiness in turn left, didn't we?

262
00:13:17.460 --> 00:13:18.600
That wasn't him, was it?

263
00:13:27.899 --> 00:13:33.659
Bob Ghibli. has asked a question, which relates to this, and I'm

264
00:13:33.659 --> 00:13:36.539
just paraphrasing this one, which 10th doctor scenes would have

265
00:13:36.539 --> 00:13:40.139
been more impactful, logical dramatic if Eccleston had stayed on

266
00:13:40.139 --> 00:13:41.279
to the end of time.

267
00:13:41.340 --> 00:13:43.440
Do you think he could have pulled off any of these scenes any

268
00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:44.220
better than Tape?

269
00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:46.379
It's a difficult question to answer.

270
00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:50.100
I think they just would have been different, really.

271
00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:54.720
I think that it's very clear that we're writing for a different

272
00:13:54.720 --> 00:14:00.120
doctor and we've given some thought to what David Tennant can do

273
00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:05.399
and how his performance is different from Christopher's

274
00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:05.879
performance.

275
00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:09.419
And I can refer the listeners and it'll be in the show notes to

276
00:14:09.419 --> 00:14:14.340
Elle Sander's essay on the idiot's lantern where she talks about a

277
00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:18.419
particular scene and how Tennant tackled it and how Eccleston

278
00:14:18.419 --> 00:14:20.580
would have tackled it differently.

279
00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:26.220
And I just think there's no time during the tenant era where I'm

280
00:14:26.220 --> 00:14:28.620
sitting there thinking I wish Chris had been here to do this.

281
00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:32.279
Bob's question that I was going to actually ask, was at what point

282
00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:34.980
do you stop seeing Eccleston as the doctor within the scripts of

283
00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:36.960
series 2 or 3 or maybe four?

284
00:14:37.019 --> 00:14:40.559
Following up to that, I don't see Eccleston at all.

285
00:14:40.620 --> 00:14:45.419
It's just David's there and they're tailored to him and that's my

286
00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:46.080
take on it.

287
00:14:46.139 --> 00:14:46.740
I really don't.

288
00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:47.759
Exactly.

289
00:14:47.820 --> 00:14:49.919
A good actor will take whatever the material is.

290
00:14:49.980 --> 00:14:50.519
This is the point.

291
00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:52.080
A writer may have one.

292
00:14:52.139 --> 00:14:58.620
Possibly if he's expansive, 2 or 3 variants on how he or she feels

293
00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:04.320
the performance will develop, but that's nothing to the almost

294
00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:08.580
infinite variety of performances that a good actor will give

295
00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:09.000
anything.

296
00:15:09.059 --> 00:15:12.899
I could see Eccleston really developing in this, but let's not

297
00:15:12.899 --> 00:15:15.720
underestimate his great fine skill.

298
00:15:15.779 --> 00:15:19.559
He's, I feel as a person, but of course I don't know him, but

299
00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:24.059
having watched his interviews and how Eccleston has responded to

300
00:15:24.059 --> 00:15:24.899
things over the years.

301
00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:28.980
I think he's a deeply sensitive, fraught man, and I think he would

302
00:15:28.980 --> 00:15:31.139
have really, if he'd felt nurtured.

303
00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:35.639
And if he'd felt safe in the production, I think he always felt

304
00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:40.019
safe with RTD, I believe his loyalty was still there with RTD, it

305
00:15:40.019 --> 00:15:42.600
was simply everything else that I hopes that's the case. anyway

306
00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:43.259
perhaps I'm wrong.

307
00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:48.779
But I feel I have got a handle on how Eccleston works, having

308
00:15:48.779 --> 00:15:50.820
watched him for so many years, and I think he would have been

309
00:15:50.820 --> 00:15:54.059
fantastic, quote, to the end of this.

310
00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:58.200
His emotional range would have given the benefit of...

311
00:15:58.259 --> 00:16:00.840
Yeah, I certainly am not saying that I would have been sorry to

312
00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:05.039
see another year of Eccleston or another, you know, 3 or 4 years

313
00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:05.879
of Eccleston.

314
00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:08.399
I would have been absolutely fine with that because I think he is

315
00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:10.379
fantastic. feel he would have developed.

316
00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:14.759
He's, you know, his awkwardness with humour, it appeared.

317
00:16:14.820 --> 00:16:18.539
But that was also the role he was playing as a war veteran.

318
00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:22.440
He certainly had has the capacity and the empathy as an actor to

319
00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:25.139
do this. that thawing process.

320
00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:27.960
And if Billy had lasted the, who knows?

321
00:16:28.019 --> 00:16:31.860
I mean, maybe Billy wouldn't have so many, so many variables.

322
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:35.279
I really would have liked to have seen him with Freema.

323
00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:38.879
I think we would have had a closer bond.

324
00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:43.860
We know offset. we all know as it's pretty much the public realm

325
00:16:43.860 --> 00:16:50.100
that there was tenants discomfort with something about Freema's

326
00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:52.679
casting or the role or whatever it was.

327
00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.440
And I think that would have been really interesting to see

328
00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:57.179
Eccleston's take on that.

329
00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:58.379
I don't believe that would have been there.

330
00:16:58.379 --> 00:17:01.200
Because one thing that made me very uncomfortable with the tenant

331
00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:04.259
era is watching his ego just go up like the Hindenburg.

332
00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:08.640
And I think that those in scenes are really just giving him the

333
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:12.059
chance to deflate. defeat slowly.

334
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:16.920
I think it wasn't so much a script issue as a structural problem

335
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:17.819
with the characters.

336
00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:22.079
So I think Rose is developed to work with the ninth doctor and

337
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:25.619
doesn't work as well with the 10th doctor, and they get by on it

338
00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:30.240
because David and Billy have great chemistry, and so they prove

339
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.660
very popular, but Rose is a character is problematic, I think, with

340
00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:38.759
the 10th doctor, and that aura of smugness that is sometimes

341
00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:42.240
commented on is because they're both big, vibrant, bright

342
00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:45.359
characters, and David's doctor, I think, needed something else

343
00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:49.500
which they then got right to differing degrees. with Martha and

344
00:17:49.500 --> 00:17:50.039
Donna.

345
00:17:50.460 --> 00:17:52.259
Yeah, it's funny.

346
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:56.519
There's a kind of, there is a version of RTD's era that didn't

347
00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:03.299
happen, which you can kind of see them working towards, like 1st

348
00:18:03.299 --> 00:18:05.640
with Chris leaving and then with Billy leaving.

349
00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:09.660
There's clearly some sort of plan about there being some kind of

350
00:18:09.660 --> 00:18:10.859
comeuppance.

351
00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:15.599
Like that, the smugness in series 2 is like one shoe dropping and

352
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.839
you're waiting for something to happen and maybe doomsday pays

353
00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:20.640
that off, but not quite.

354
00:18:20.700 --> 00:18:24.599
And, you know, like there's what would have happened had Billy

355
00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:26.039
stayed on for series 3.

356
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:31.980
Like there's the fun thing about TV. is that even though nowadays

357
00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:34.680
it's an hauteurs medium, you know, like you have someone who

358
00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:38.279
brings a vision to the show, there's still production that happens

359
00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:41.759
and kind of makes people...

360
00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:43.259
Yeah, it makes people change their plans.

361
00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:46.079
But I do think there's kind of, you know, like a sort of

362
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:49.500
archeologist could rake through that era and kind of find the

363
00:18:49.500 --> 00:18:54.299
evidence for sort of paths not taken as a result of those sort of

364
00:18:54.299 --> 00:18:55.140
production issues.

365
00:18:55.740 --> 00:19:00.000
Joe Ford says, what is the magical formula of relatable characters

366
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:02.339
that neither of the showrunners since have managed to capture?

367
00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:04.859
More of a comment than a question.

368
00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:05.400
Yeah.

369
00:19:05.460 --> 00:19:07.079
You controversial?

370
00:19:07.619 --> 00:19:09.839
I just think it's Russell.

371
00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:10.500
Do you know what I mean?

372
00:19:10.619 --> 00:19:14.940
I think that Moffatt isn't interested in creating characters in

373
00:19:14.940 --> 00:19:18.000
quite the same way that Russell is.

374
00:19:18.059 --> 00:19:21.539
Russell's creating a soap opera and the soap opera has a coherent

375
00:19:21.539 --> 00:19:24.660
world. 10 year olds can learn facts about the world.

376
00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:29.880
All of the RTD era takes place in the same universe.

377
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:30.960
Love all of that.

378
00:19:31.019 --> 00:19:32.940
Yeah, it's wonderful, isn't it?

379
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:37.980
And he gives us this old fans things that we can bring to it, but

380
00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:41.039
he gives new fans like fun things to know about the world.

381
00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:43.559
There's a coherency to this era.

382
00:19:43.619 --> 00:19:45.480
And in that world.

383
00:19:45.539 --> 00:19:47.700
There's space for characters to breathe.

384
00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:51.900
And you can't, like, there's no way of imagining a journey's end

385
00:19:51.900 --> 00:19:55.319
that takes place in the Moffat era because who would be there?

386
00:19:55.500 --> 00:19:58.259
It's having family.

387
00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:59.460
That's right.

388
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:01.200
We've got Rose's family.

389
00:20:01.259 --> 00:20:03.779
Martha's family, Donna's family.

390
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:06.119
The Sarah Jane Adventures family.

391
00:20:06.180 --> 00:20:06.779
Yeah.

392
00:20:06.779 --> 00:20:07.259
Right?

393
00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:08.220
The Torchwood family.

394
00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:11.460
He keeps creating all these families that are all interconnected

395
00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:13.200
ultimately and are drawn together.

396
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:17.400
And maybe the word is there's a mum.

397
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:21.059
Well, it's what Nathan said about Russell's background in soap.

398
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:22.619
You know, he was reared in soap.

399
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:25.079
He had his own high-end soap, the grand.

400
00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:28.920
I don't think Moffat, to my knowledge, ever worked on soap.

401
00:20:28.980 --> 00:20:31.140
Coupling's the closest to ever god, isn't it?

402
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:32.099
Yeah, rom-com.

403
00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:33.779
That's your background is rom-com.

404
00:20:33.900 --> 00:20:36.599
And that's still a very externalised, as you might say, Peter.

405
00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:38.279
It's a very external way of writing.

406
00:20:38.339 --> 00:20:43.740
Whereas I believe RTD is entirely, entirely internal, and his

407
00:20:43.740 --> 00:20:46.859
thinking is extremely empathetic.

408
00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:49.140
Think about how you watch a soap.

409
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.900
There are a lot of characters there and you know what their deal

410
00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:54.900
is and you know something of their history and it comes up and it

411
00:20:54.900 --> 00:20:57.059
affects other things that happen later in the program.

412
00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:59.279
And that's how we watch Doctor Who.

413
00:20:59.339 --> 00:21:01.380
It's how Star Trek people watch Star Trek.

414
00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:04.200
It's how Star Wars people watch Star Wars, you know.

415
00:21:04.259 --> 00:21:06.000
But the Moffite is not like that.

416
00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:08.160
And it doesn't aspire to be like that.

417
00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:09.059
It's not a fault.

418
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:13.799
But you couldn't have had an episode like Love and Monsters or

419
00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:18.960
Turn left in the Moffat era because both of those stories go back

420
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:25.019
and revisit things that have happened in the world up until this

421
00:21:25.019 --> 00:21:25.380
point.

422
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:28.500
But Moffatt doesn't create a world like that.

423
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:33.000
He only has the sort of regular characters, really, and river

424
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:36.779
perhaps, and missy eventually, to play with.

425
00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:39.960
He doesn't create a world full of people that we get to know.

426
00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:43.799
Even in series 10, which is all kind of said in the one place and

427
00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:45.180
he has the opportunity to do it.

428
00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.960
He doesn't really do it or series 8, set in the school, never

429
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:49.980
creates a real world.

430
00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:51.180
That's right.

431
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:54.059
He tries to bring in characters, like he brings in Clara's, I

432
00:21:54.059 --> 00:21:55.500
think, father and grandmother.

433
00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:57.960
Is it Clara's father in time of the doctor?

434
00:21:58.019 --> 00:22:00.359
And they make no impression at all because that's not what he's

435
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:00.779
interested in.

436
00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:04.259
But also when you look at soap, soaps are all about character and

437
00:22:04.259 --> 00:22:05.160
character interaction.

438
00:22:05.220 --> 00:22:06.960
I think family is the nucleus of that.

439
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:11.579
And so the big changes in soaps are not when there's a dramatic

440
00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:13.799
event, or when they have a new character, it's when a new family

441
00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:14.339
comes in.

442
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:15.240
Yeah.

443
00:22:15.779 --> 00:22:17.940
I hadn't really thought of that.

444
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.240
It's like the Kennedy suddenly arriving in Ramsey Street, isn't

445
00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:21.420
it?

446
00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:24.180
When the Joneses appear at the beginning of series three.

447
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:25.259
That's right.

448
00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:28.740
And it changes the entire dynamic of the show because you have all

449
00:22:28.740 --> 00:22:30.539
of these new characters and interactions.

450
00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:33.539
It's why they always used to say in EastEnders.

451
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:36.779
I can't remember who the character was, but the door was always

452
00:22:36.779 --> 00:22:39.900
open for this character to come back because they still had all

453
00:22:39.900 --> 00:22:40.680
the connections.

454
00:22:40.740 --> 00:22:42.240
They still had family members.

455
00:22:42.299 --> 00:22:43.559
They still had exes.

456
00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:46.259
They still had all of these storylines that they could drop into

457
00:22:46.259 --> 00:22:47.640
and pick up straight away.

458
00:22:47.700 --> 00:22:50.400
Whereas what doesn't work is when you bring back a legacy

459
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:53.220
character and they don't have the connections which they had in

460
00:22:53.220 --> 00:22:53.759
the old show.

461
00:22:53.819 --> 00:22:56.220
It's like 1st day at school, isn't it?

462
00:22:56.279 --> 00:22:57.900
Everyone's trying to find their feed.

463
00:22:57.960 --> 00:22:58.799
It's very awkward.

464
00:22:58.859 --> 00:23:01.799
Am I saying Mr. Moffatt's writing is awkward?

465
00:23:01.859 --> 00:23:02.519
Well, I don't know.

466
00:23:02.579 --> 00:23:03.539
We're not there yet.

467
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:04.079
Are we?

468
00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:07.200
I think that he is trying to do something different.

469
00:23:07.259 --> 00:23:10.680
And I think we underestimate how incredibly different his version

470
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:11.579
of Doctor Who is.

471
00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:13.440
How difficult that was and how clever it was.

472
00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:15.900
I love his one-off stories in this era.

473
00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:19.259
I mean, we were all saying 1st time around. these are the best.

474
00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:20.160
Do you remember this?

475
00:23:20.220 --> 00:23:24.240
These are the best of RTD's era. and they were all Mr. Moffatt

476
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:24.660
stories.

477
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.779
I don't think they're the best of RTDs here.

478
00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:31.200
But I do think they are extremely good, and I certainly think I'm

479
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:34.740
not willing to fight very hard against the contention that they're

480
00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:35.460
the best of the era.

481
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:36.299
They are extremely good.

482
00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:38.819
Well, what's Russell's best story then?

483
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:39.599
Todd?

484
00:23:39.660 --> 00:23:43.380
Nathan, Peter, what do you feel were his best if we're putting

485
00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:44.519
them up against Moffat?

486
00:23:44.579 --> 00:23:45.240
Oh, yeah.

487
00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:48.119
We're talking about internalised writing.

488
00:23:48.180 --> 00:23:49.259
Goodness.

489
00:23:49.259 --> 00:23:53.640
You know, the Dalek 2 parter at the end of series one.

490
00:23:53.700 --> 00:23:56.460
Oh, love and to death. amazing.

491
00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:57.720
The one with all those game shows.

492
00:23:57.779 --> 00:23:59.099
I mean, that's extraordinary.

493
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:00.660
It turns on a dime.

494
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:03.180
It's very Russell with all those game shows and that becomes a big

495
00:24:03.180 --> 00:24:07.559
old, mostly traditional series finale and Russell can do them both

496
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:08.579
with consummate ease.

497
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:10.799
And it is this sort of look at us.

498
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:11.819
This is us.

499
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:16.140
We now include all of the rest of television.

500
00:24:16.259 --> 00:24:17.220
We own TV.

501
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:21.599
Just as Billy did in episode one back in 63 when he pointed at the

502
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:22.200
monitor.

503
00:24:22.259 --> 00:24:23.640
Yeah, we thus up there.

504
00:24:23.700 --> 00:24:24.599
It's us Yeah.

505
00:24:24.660 --> 00:24:26.640
Told what you said as well.

506
00:24:26.700 --> 00:24:28.140
Turn left and midnight.

507
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:32.519
I think they're just such a showcase for Russell because one is

508
00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:36.839
written with plenty of time to spare and thought about sort of how

509
00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:39.779
the series is structured around it and how it's going to fit in.

510
00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:43.859
One, midnight is written at the very last minute as a replacement

511
00:24:43.859 --> 00:24:45.539
and both of them are phenomenal.

512
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:48.900
So whatever pressures are on Russell, he always delivers

513
00:24:48.900 --> 00:24:49.380
something.

514
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:59.940
Green fingered librarian, Simon Hart, asks this question.

515
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.660
What do you think of the RTD season formula?

516
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:07.259
Is it tiresome or does it work well?

517
00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:10.200
I think it works wonderfully well.

518
00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:12.900
I love having the past, present, future.

519
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:15.960
You've got an early 2 parter, a late 2 parter.

520
00:25:16.019 --> 00:25:19.380
There's a structure there for 5 seasons because, of course, Stephen

521
00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:22.859
also takes that through, and it harks back to what we're used to

522
00:25:22.859 --> 00:25:24.059
as classic series fan.

523
00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:29.339
You look at the perch we era with, you know, 24 partters and and

524
00:25:29.339 --> 00:25:34.380
36 parters, and then most of Tom Baker's era, you know, lots of

525
00:25:34.380 --> 00:25:36.059
four-partters and a 6 parter at the end.

526
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:37.740
And it's the rhythm of it.

527
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:41.160
You know, when you're planning season arcs and putting things in

528
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:45.000
he'll he'll put in things like, you know, Mr. Saxon at certain

529
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:48.420
points and it just flows so well.

530
00:25:48.539 --> 00:25:53.460
What he wants to do with the show based on that consistency and

531
00:25:53.460 --> 00:25:56.700
structure and as much as we'd love to have like different things

532
00:25:56.700 --> 00:25:58.920
all the time and talk about, oh, let's change it up.

533
00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:03.960
I think having that underlying it really sets up the show as

534
00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:06.660
something that you can just drop in and drop out off.

535
00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:10.559
I think it's super, super clever.

536
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:11.940
And the problem space is massive.

537
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:16.019
The big problem with Doctor Who is that because it can be anywhere

538
00:26:16.019 --> 00:26:20.460
like literally anywhere, anything, it risks being formless or not

539
00:26:20.460 --> 00:26:22.140
about anything, right?

540
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:25.319
And so this structure ensures that we come back to earth, like, you

541
00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:29.279
know, a couple of times a season, it ensures that we have a range

542
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:33.000
of tones, you know, that early two parter is always like the

543
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:35.700
return of a big Toyantic monster or something like that.

544
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:41.339
Like it's light, and it's populist, and then we have some dark

545
00:26:41.339 --> 00:26:45.359
things towards the end and sort of a cheap one in episode 11 and

546
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:48.059
you know, like a big finale with Daleks or Sidemen or the master.

547
00:26:48.180 --> 00:26:50.519
It is deeply, intuitively clever.

548
00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:53.220
I wonder how much he's actually put thought into this because it

549
00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:55.619
goes back to what we've talked about on the podcast before.

550
00:26:55.680 --> 00:27:01.319
The mammalian need for structure and repetition, which again, if

551
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:06.839
what is that but a family, a cohesive central unit in which to

552
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:11.819
that familiarity that makes us loyal to this body of work.

553
00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:14.819
And I think there's variety built into it as well.

554
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:17.160
Like there is variety build into it.

555
00:27:17.220 --> 00:27:21.480
So even though episodes foreign 5 are the same sort of thing each

556
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:21.839
year.

557
00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:24.480
They're still all vastly different from them.

558
00:27:24.539 --> 00:27:25.859
You've always got a neris, won't you?

559
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:27.720
Yeah, that's right.

560
00:27:27.779 --> 00:27:30.180
Also, I think it's comforting for kids.

561
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:33.059
Kids internalise that kind of thing where they sort of know that

562
00:27:33.059 --> 00:27:36.180
there's a big season finale coming up or isn't it about time for a

563
00:27:36.180 --> 00:27:40.619
two-parter and it helps you with kind of accessibility with the

564
00:27:40.619 --> 00:27:40.980
series.

565
00:27:41.099 --> 00:27:46.380
And when I think Stephen rightly breaks the formula for series 6

566
00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:49.019
it may have a little bit to do with the slightly cooler reaction

567
00:27:49.019 --> 00:27:52.440
to that season, because suddenly it's not the formula that, you

568
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:55.380
know, suddenly we're opening with a 2 parter, and there's a break

569
00:27:55.380 --> 00:27:59.640
in the middle and you get a 2nd opener, and it just, it slightly

570
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:00.539
puts you at odds.

571
00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:04.799
I certainly think that he made the right decision to do what he

572
00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:06.839
does in the series 5 and follow it.

573
00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:08.940
And he subverts it all the way through.

574
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:13.140
He's he follows the basic structure, but does massively different

575
00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:14.039
things with it.

576
00:28:14.099 --> 00:28:18.660
I mean, compare the early 2 parter in series five.

577
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:25.259
It's much darker and scarier than the corresponding early two

578
00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:26.880
parters in Russell's seasons.

579
00:28:27.180 --> 00:28:32.759
He does an opener, but it's nowhere near as light.

580
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:33.599
Fluffy.

581
00:28:33.660 --> 00:28:37.259
Yeah, it's not fluffy or light. funny in places, but it's actually

582
00:28:37.259 --> 00:28:38.880
you know, properly serious.

583
00:28:39.420 --> 00:28:45.420
And his finale, while it has the Daleks in it, is very, very

584
00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:49.140
strange and very, very unlike any of the previous finales.

585
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:50.460
But he's right to follow it.

586
00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:53.519
And I think that Moffat does have a problem trying to structure

587
00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:57.480
the seasons and you can see him lurch from idea to idea throughout

588
00:28:57.480 --> 00:28:58.019
his run.

589
00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:02.880
I mean, he almost in his last season, he kind of almost sort of

590
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:06.960
reverts to the traditional RTD structure.

591
00:29:07.019 --> 00:29:11.460
I also like the fact that, although we've got all these different

592
00:29:11.460 --> 00:29:14.460
themes running through as well as part of this structure, like, you

593
00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:17.640
know, you hear about Bad Wolf, and then you've got like Torchwood

594
00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:22.740
and Mr. Saxon, and you are not alone, they don't overwhelm the

595
00:29:22.740 --> 00:29:25.799
individual stories throughout the season, so you can drop in and

596
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:31.140
drop out as a casual viewer throughout all of those 4 series, even

597
00:29:31.140 --> 00:29:34.140
towards the end with, you know, the bees and the Dr. Donna. their

598
00:29:34.140 --> 00:29:37.619
little touches, their words that are said, but we're not locked

599
00:29:37.619 --> 00:29:39.599
into. there's a crack in the wall.

600
00:29:39.660 --> 00:29:40.980
Do you know what I mean?

601
00:29:41.099 --> 00:29:42.720
not a physical thing.

602
00:29:42.779 --> 00:29:45.839
It's just a word that is you. used.

603
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:49.799
And as somebody watching you is obviously pick up when that is

604
00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:54.000
said, but it only really comes into play into the finales, if at

605
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:54.240
all.

606
00:29:54.299 --> 00:29:57.480
I mean, you look at torchwood and how that's seeded, but really

607
00:29:57.480 --> 00:29:59.640
it's a setting at the end of that season.

608
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:03.299
And even the cybermen in that 2nd series, like it's not like, well

609
00:30:03.299 --> 00:30:05.940
the cybermen are coming back, you know, they just happen to be

610
00:30:05.940 --> 00:30:07.980
there as the villains at the end.

611
00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:09.839
We're not overwhelmed by these things.

612
00:30:09.900 --> 00:30:13.259
Like people talk about the fact that, I mean, you look at Buffy

613
00:30:13.259 --> 00:30:16.500
the Vampire Slayer, and you look at other shows similar that have

614
00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:20.220
these season-long villains, really...

615
00:30:20.220 --> 00:30:21.240
Is that really in play?

616
00:30:21.299 --> 00:30:23.160
I don't, it's not really at all.

617
00:30:23.220 --> 00:30:26.460
You know, they, yeah, the Daleks are back at the end of season one

618
00:30:26.460 --> 00:30:29.099
and there's links and as I just said, the cybermen, even the

619
00:30:29.099 --> 00:30:32.460
master, then at the end. and Daros, but they're not overwhelming

620
00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:32.940
the rest of it.

621
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:35.819
And he and you've talked about this.

622
00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:42.240
He reimagines those classic iconic villains and monsters for a new

623
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:48.059
audience and he takes all that we love and brings out new and

624
00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:50.519
interesting aspects.

625
00:30:50.579 --> 00:30:51.779
I mean, especially the master.

626
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:55.200
Like the way he develops that, but still nods back to the past.

627
00:30:55.259 --> 00:30:58.079
And I was not at the time that happy.

628
00:30:58.140 --> 00:30:59.339
Oh, it's too over the top.

629
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:00.240
It's to whatever.

630
00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:03.359
But now looking back on it, I can see what he's doing and I

631
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:04.440
appreciate it so much more.

632
00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:07.859
Russell always has one eye on the Saturday night audience.

633
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:12.240
He knows that the show has to be populist and easily accessible

634
00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:15.359
and yet he knows that it's got a broad fan base, and so really

635
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:19.200
he's writing for himself because he is a massive fan, and he is

636
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:23.400
also a very populist writer who knows how to deliver drama for a

637
00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:24.240
wide audience.

638
00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:27.359
And I think we were very lucky to get him and combine that because

639
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:33.000
the best of his era is that you can have quite a contained self

640
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:35.759
referential episode, followed by an enormous crowd pleaser, but

641
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:37.799
both of them are accessible to the general audience.

642
00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:42.000
Okay, so Snorg, marry, avoid.

643
00:31:42.059 --> 00:31:46.559
Pete Tyler, Jeffrey Noble, Clive Jones.

644
00:31:46.619 --> 00:31:50.579
Oh, to be honest, we won't marry any of them.

645
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:52.980
You wouldn't want to marry any of them?

646
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:53.339
No.

647
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:56.579
Well, most of them don't have much longevity in them, do they?

648
00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:00.299
You're not on for the long haul, are you?

649
00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:04.200
I might give in to my latent Toronto Ophelia and snog all of

650
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:04.380
them.

651
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:04.920
Oh, yeah.

652
00:32:05.460 --> 00:32:07.680
How latent is that, Peter?

653
00:32:07.740 --> 00:32:09.839
Pretty late.

654
00:32:10.380 --> 00:32:12.000
Nathan?

655
00:32:12.059 --> 00:32:18.180
Well, there's probably only enough time for a snog with Jeffrey

656
00:32:18.180 --> 00:32:19.200
Noble, to be honest.

657
00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:23.759
And I might get a fiver off him if you're lucky.

658
00:32:23.819 --> 00:32:25.259
At least one quid.

659
00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:27.660
We're going with this.

660
00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:30.539
I like to spend the evening with him just to get to know him.

661
00:32:30.660 --> 00:32:31.140
Yeah.

662
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:33.480
Let the doctor earn that fiver.

663
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:41.099
I actually have a bit of a soft spot for the actor who plays Clive

664
00:32:41.099 --> 00:32:42.480
so I'm going to marry him.

665
00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:45.779
That would be great because you get Matrona Carney thrown in as

666
00:32:45.779 --> 00:32:46.019
well.

667
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:46.680
That's right.

668
00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:47.160
That's right.

669
00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:48.420
He knows all about the rock.

670
00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:52.559
You know, like I'd be able to get my nails done with Annalise, you

671
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:55.140
know, and have your brain transplanted into everybody.

672
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:58.440
I still haven't forgiven him for mine walk.

673
00:32:58.500 --> 00:32:59.279
I'm avoiding him.

674
00:33:00.660 --> 00:33:02.279
And I shall marry Pete for the money.

675
00:33:04.259 --> 00:33:05.460
Trust me on this.

676
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:07.380
No, actually, he's a very nice person too.

677
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.740
So, um, Snog Mary avoid.

678
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:11.640
Oh this is another one.

679
00:33:11.700 --> 00:33:14.220
Trisha Delaney, Annalise or Neris.

680
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:17.579
Well, Trisha's got a bit of fat though, has he?

681
00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:20.039
smells much longer.

682
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:23.220
No, well, Russell is.

683
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:24.720
That's another thing.

684
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:25.440
It really does actually.

685
00:33:25.500 --> 00:33:29.579
There's heaps of, like, and clearly he's a large man.

686
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:31.740
Oh, he's very sensitive about his.

687
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:32.220
Yeah, yeah.

688
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:36.119
It's a tendency to run to fat and also just being a gay man as

689
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:40.259
well and all of the weird body image stuff that we end up with.

690
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:42.359
So he does quite a lot of fat shaming.

691
00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:47.220
And the, uh, the, my favourite one is the Slovene, because they

692
00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:51.539
actually just have fat man's bellies, like they look like, you

693
00:33:51.539 --> 00:33:52.680
know, fossil.

694
00:33:54.359 --> 00:33:58.500
Look like Phil Collinson after a weekend on the booze, but he

695
00:33:58.500 --> 00:33:59.400
hasn't got to the gym yet.

696
00:33:59.460 --> 00:34:01.980
Oh, sorry, Phil.

697
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:03.900
Annalise and Neris.

698
00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:06.299
He really does write to archetypes, doesn't he?

699
00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:07.500
I writes them so well.

700
00:34:07.619 --> 00:34:09.059
They're wonderful, aren't they?

701
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:14.519
I just narris is so funny and it's partly just because Catherine

702
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:16.019
Tate is the one saying her name.

703
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:17.880
So good.

704
00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:19.739
Analise is amazing.

705
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.199
You're totally snorganalise, but you'd never marry her because

706
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:23.280
she'd have your money in no time.

707
00:34:23.340 --> 00:34:24.300
Oh, yeah, yeah.

708
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:25.320
Oh, she's terrific.

709
00:34:27.300 --> 00:34:29.880
Such a shame she never came back.

710
00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:32.340
I would have loved it. shame, isn't it?

711
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.139
Been great to see her in that year of hell.

712
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:37.800
You know, maybe she became a resistance leader or something.

713
00:34:37.860 --> 00:34:42.059
Oh, I just wanted to see her and Francine with the missiles going

714
00:34:42.059 --> 00:34:42.900
off all around them.

715
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:46.679
I would have loved to have seen her and Neres in serving made

716
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:49.739
outfits, giving them mastery's drinks and not looking really happy

717
00:34:49.739 --> 00:34:51.960
about it. so good.

718
00:34:52.019 --> 00:34:53.460
Come on, RTD.

719
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:53.940
Yeah.

720
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:57.119
Oh, right, so we're avoiding Trisha Delaney.

721
00:34:57.179 --> 00:35:00.599
We're snogging and Elise, but we're going to marry now.

722
00:35:00.659 --> 00:35:01.440
We're marrying Maris.

723
00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:03.119
No, Rich.

724
00:35:03.780 --> 00:35:06.239
Because you don't only get nerished.

725
00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:07.860
You get friends with Nereris.

726
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:27.900
Okay, so there's some of the guest stars, or non guest stars, as

727
00:35:27.900 --> 00:35:28.440
the case may be.

728
00:35:28.500 --> 00:35:31.920
Who's your favourite one off guest star during the RTD era?

729
00:35:31.980 --> 00:35:34.980
Is there something that pops into your mind?

730
00:35:35.099 --> 00:35:36.119
I'd say River song.

731
00:35:36.179 --> 00:35:37.380
Wow.

732
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:42.239
If she had only been a one and I'm quite serious about this, if

733
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:45.659
she had only been a one off guest star, there's I love that it

734
00:35:45.659 --> 00:35:50.579
gives fans and casual viewers, I would hope as well, a way in to

735
00:35:50.579 --> 00:35:51.239
the writing.

736
00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:54.599
I think it's a really nice way of getting a young person.

737
00:35:54.659 --> 00:35:58.139
I'm thinking of all of us at around the age that Russell was and

738
00:35:58.139 --> 00:36:02.099
Capaldi and all of these people were starting to write fan, Tenant

739
00:36:02.099 --> 00:36:03.179
was writing it as well, wasn't he?

740
00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:07.260
That's a lovely inn for a child and a little girl to be sitting

741
00:36:07.260 --> 00:36:09.300
there because I love that it's a female character.

742
00:36:09.300 --> 00:36:14.639
And yeah, we know it's, we later see how this paradigm just goes

743
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:15.599
on and on and on.

744
00:36:15.659 --> 00:36:18.659
And I mean, the way that I keep talking about the Moffat era, and

745
00:36:18.659 --> 00:36:20.579
I wonder why I'm doing that, probably because it's so

746
00:36:20.579 --> 00:36:21.179
comfortable.

747
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:27.539
The RTD one just feels so familiar and so easy that it's um, I'm

748
00:36:27.539 --> 00:36:31.739
finding it hard to find, I won't say flaws, but critiquing it.

749
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:35.579
It's a very comfortable sofa to be sitting in.

750
00:36:35.579 --> 00:36:37.380
RDD.

751
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:38.760
That's not fat shaming.

752
00:36:38.820 --> 00:36:40.440
That's just saying it's comfy.

753
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:43.440
But yeah, it's an inn.

754
00:36:43.500 --> 00:36:46.619
It gives us an opportunity to do, to do the thinking, to work in

755
00:36:46.619 --> 00:36:49.440
with the narrative, and I think it's always a shame with long, long

756
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:54.539
shows that's kind of taken away, and, you know, I don't like the

757
00:36:54.539 --> 00:36:55.800
thinking done for me.

758
00:36:55.860 --> 00:36:58.800
I like the old style of having to do the work.

759
00:36:58.860 --> 00:37:02.639
Alex Kingston is spectacularly good that one.

760
00:37:02.699 --> 00:37:03.179
Yeah.

761
00:37:03.239 --> 00:37:04.079
Yeah, really great.

762
00:37:04.139 --> 00:37:07.260
Miss Evangelistic, because of that story is actually probably one

763
00:37:07.260 --> 00:37:09.900
of my favourites as well for the questions that she poses.

764
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:12.539
But anyway, I can't bring a face to mind.

765
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:13.320
Stop.

766
00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:18.840
I think if I was given another half hour, I'd probably think of a

767
00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:22.079
dozen, but the person who comes to mind is Ida Scott, played by

768
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:22.980
Claire Ashbrook.

769
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:25.320
Yeah, we keep crying for the interesting women, don't we?

770
00:37:25.380 --> 00:37:26.760
She's brilliant.

771
00:37:26.820 --> 00:37:27.539
She's lovely.

772
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:30.659
Yeah, she's really nice and she works so well going back to what

773
00:37:30.659 --> 00:37:32.340
we were saying earlier with David Tennant.

774
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:35.579
That moment in the caves with the snow and when she's down there

775
00:37:35.579 --> 00:37:39.420
outside his massive pit and she's just standing there with David.

776
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:41.880
David's so good when again, when he's got someone really

777
00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:46.019
extraordinary to work against, then we see his subtlety.

778
00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:46.920
That's right.

779
00:37:46.980 --> 00:37:51.360
And she um, she is a big part of that two-part story, which I

780
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:52.679
adore that story.

781
00:37:52.739 --> 00:37:54.840
She's at sort of heart and soul.

782
00:37:54.900 --> 00:37:59.159
And even in amongst all of the action going on, which kind of, you

783
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:02.219
know, killer Oud and the devil coming back and everything, the

784
00:38:02.219 --> 00:38:05.699
most impressive parts are the 2 handers with her and David, they

785
00:38:05.699 --> 00:38:07.800
just talk about the meaning of life and faith.

786
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:11.460
And, you know, it's a rare character that can come in and make you

787
00:38:11.460 --> 00:38:12.539
want more of them.

788
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:15.179
There were plans to bring her back, which never came tuition, and

789
00:38:15.179 --> 00:38:16.619
I think were worse off for that.

790
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:20.579
She's Bernard Cribben's in a Tintin space suit, isn't it?

791
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:22.800
Love those orange spacesuits.

792
00:38:22.860 --> 00:38:23.760
Nathan.

793
00:38:23.820 --> 00:38:27.659
I'm going to say Leslie Sharp in midnight.

794
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:28.860
Oh, phenomenal.

795
00:38:28.860 --> 00:38:33.960
Yeah, and again, you know, we don't get too much of her before

796
00:38:33.960 --> 00:38:40.679
she's taken over. but she is brittle and isolated, but you can see

797
00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:46.199
her warming to the doctor, and it is that trick that Russell does

798
00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:49.739
which is just sketching a character very, very quickly.

799
00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:53.880
And so she does become a character in a very, very short amount of

800
00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:54.119
time.

801
00:38:54.179 --> 00:38:58.800
And then just the technical virtuosity of what she and David

802
00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:02.639
Tennant do in that episode, the big special effect in that episode

803
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:03.539
is the acting.

804
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.300
And she is amazing.

805
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:09.059
She is so good as the villain in that.

806
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:12.360
So terrifying, just unbelievably great.

807
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:15.719
There's a special, what's the word?

808
00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:16.679
Piquancy.

809
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:20.639
When, whenever Russell casts someone who's been a major part of

810
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:21.780
one of his previous series.

811
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:26.280
So when you get Jessica Hines coming in to play, essentially, the

812
00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:31.619
doctor's wife for those 2 partters, it's big casting and there's a

813
00:39:31.619 --> 00:39:33.960
resonance there because of that connection with Russell.

814
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:38.340
And I think Leslie Sharp is the same because she was one of the

815
00:39:38.340 --> 00:39:40.860
leads in the 2nd coming.

816
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:41.820
Yeah she's Judith.

817
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:46.440
Yeah, up against Christopher Eccleston's 2nd coming of Jesus.

818
00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:49.619
And it's an incredible role.

819
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:51.659
And if you haven't seen it.

820
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:54.239
If you haven't seen it, you should stop listening to this podcast

821
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:55.980
immediately and go and watch it.

822
00:39:56.039 --> 00:39:59.699
It's like aliens of London in a way.

823
00:39:59.820 --> 00:40:03.539
But it's about the 2nd coming of Christ, and it's Christopher

824
00:40:03.539 --> 00:40:07.260
Eccleston, and it has amazing things to say about religion and

825
00:40:07.260 --> 00:40:12.420
faith, and just the most surprising conclusion, and Leslie Sharp

826
00:40:12.420 --> 00:40:13.800
is absolutely at the heart of it.

827
00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:14.579
She's wonderful.

828
00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:19.679
This is why he could write it so quickly, midnight, because every

829
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:23.760
good writer, director relies on his ensemble cast, knowing what

830
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:28.019
they'll be able to deliver in such with such brevity, if you like

831
00:40:28.019 --> 00:40:29.039
of character development.

832
00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:34.500
He just trusts that they'll fill in and fulminate in the parts.

833
00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:36.960
This is like watching really good rep.

834
00:40:37.019 --> 00:40:38.820
Maybe that's what TV is now.

835
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:42.360
Those old touring theatre companies that Liz Sladen came from.

836
00:40:42.420 --> 00:40:44.340
And I think Lou Jameson did as well, didn't she?

837
00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:47.820
that they've different parts every week and performing.

838
00:40:47.940 --> 00:40:48.300
He knew.

839
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:51.000
Yeah, that's why that's maybe that's why midnight works so well.

840
00:40:51.059 --> 00:40:53.820
And when Russell Russell works really, really well when he's got

841
00:40:53.820 --> 00:40:56.940
no time and just knows he has to rely on his inner talent and his

842
00:40:56.940 --> 00:40:57.659
performers.

843
00:40:57.719 --> 00:40:59.579
It is a theatre piece, isn't it?

844
00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:02.820
I mean, if you're a very skilled group of actors, you could

845
00:41:02.820 --> 00:41:03.360
performer.

846
00:41:03.420 --> 00:41:06.719
You could do it on an empty set, doesn't need very much.

847
00:41:06.780 --> 00:41:10.019
And the series name which was eluding me in addition to the 2nd

848
00:41:10.019 --> 00:41:11.099
coming is Bob and Rose.

849
00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:12.119
Oh, yeah.

850
00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:14.280
Leslie was one of the leads in that.

851
00:41:14.340 --> 00:41:18.840
And I don't know, just when this performer that Russell trusts, he

852
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:21.480
gives them a big important role and they deliver every time.

853
00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:27.239
I guess I'm going to go with Probably Madame de Pompadour.

854
00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:33.480
Because I really, I think in that 40 minutes or whatever, it's for

855
00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:36.960
me probably the 1st time that somebody makes such an impact

856
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:39.659
totally as a one-off character.

857
00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:42.000
It's almost like Rose takes a backseat in that episode.

858
00:41:42.059 --> 00:41:42.840
Yeah, 0 yeah.

859
00:41:42.900 --> 00:41:43.320
Yeah.

860
00:41:43.380 --> 00:41:45.960
The other one I consider is Stanley Sparrow.

861
00:41:46.019 --> 00:41:49.679
Notice I've chosen Stephen Moffatt episodes.

862
00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:55.260
And you've just mentioned Jessica Hine from The Scarecrow 2

863
00:41:55.260 --> 00:41:55.739
parter.

864
00:41:55.920 --> 00:42:01.199
We're all choosing these really strong women who play off the

865
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:01.619
doctor.

866
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:05.460
And don't forget your favourite as well from Fear Her, the old

867
00:42:05.460 --> 00:42:06.239
woman in the street.

868
00:42:06.300 --> 00:42:07.559
They've taken the children.

869
00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:08.760
Remember that?

870
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:09.900
She's one of your favourites.

871
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:10.800
Oh yes.

872
00:42:10.860 --> 00:42:12.780
Much like the doctor's daughter as well.

873
00:42:14.219 --> 00:42:17.579
Okay, so monsters.

874
00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:19.260
I want to talk about this for a moment.

875
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:23.639
I mentioned earlier, we're talking a bit about Russell reimagining

876
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:27.059
old classic series, monsters and villains.

877
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:31.019
What's your favourite or the most successful you think of all the

878
00:42:31.019 --> 00:42:33.000
ones that he's brought back, Macra?

879
00:42:33.059 --> 00:42:34.139
Sylvia.

880
00:42:34.260 --> 00:42:35.880
Sylvia.

881
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:39.300
Sylvia, definitely, yeah.

882
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:41.099
I'm going to say the cyberman.

883
00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:45.539
Because the cybermen are brought back in the 60s with this weird

884
00:42:45.539 --> 00:42:49.619
sort of kit peddler fear that, you know, your pacemaker would turn

885
00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:51.300
you into an unfeeling robot.

886
00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:58.800
So they don't have really anything that they're about in the 60s

887
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:04.019
and it's very soon, they become, you know, absence of the Daleks

888
00:43:04.019 --> 00:43:06.539
it's kind of like, we'll have the side men in this because, you

889
00:43:06.539 --> 00:43:08.579
know, Terry's gone off to LA.

890
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:12.059
And then in the 80s, they're just sort of big shouty robots.

891
00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:15.719
I think they're actually the most in a way if you want to talk

892
00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:17.519
about what the 60s to the 80s is about.

893
00:43:17.579 --> 00:43:22.260
They're the Nietzsque paradigm, they're the Uber Mensch, and a big

894
00:43:22.260 --> 00:43:25.199
big warning because they're the bland, they're the face of

895
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:26.579
neoliberalists.

896
00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:31.619
They are thatch of Reagan, Kissinger, Nixon, economics.

897
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:34.559
Well, we'll get to that when we talk about the Slovene later

898
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:36.960
because I think they're absolutely the face.

899
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:38.760
You're right.

900
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:42.480
They're the Tories we actually would like to have lunch with

901
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:43.739
but...

902
00:43:43.739 --> 00:43:47.219
And that's even unfair on the Tories because the Tories were

903
00:43:47.219 --> 00:43:48.300
changed by all of this as well.

904
00:43:48.420 --> 00:43:51.659
I think they actually end up being very interesting, but you're

905
00:43:51.659 --> 00:43:53.099
right, because they're only a cypher.

906
00:43:53.159 --> 00:43:53.880
See what I did there?

907
00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:55.260
They're only they're cypher men.

908
00:43:55.320 --> 00:43:58.139
So he tries to reinvent them.

909
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:05.159
So he replaces, you know, upside down earth with Malaysia, with a

910
00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:09.300
parallel universe, and he gives them something, and it is a sort

911
00:44:09.300 --> 00:44:12.480
of slightly boomer and slightly dated conception, but the idea

912
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:16.800
that we're turning into cybermen by participating in the same

913
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:19.619
media, living so much of our lives online.

914
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:22.559
And so that gives them something to be about.

915
00:44:22.619 --> 00:44:26.039
And then I think the other reinvention, the other aspect of the

916
00:44:26.039 --> 00:44:29.699
reinvention is where the entire population of London marches into

917
00:44:29.699 --> 00:44:33.840
Battersea Power Station to be sawn up and turn into Cyberman.

918
00:44:33.900 --> 00:44:37.739
Like I just think putting the cybermen in London so that as you go

919
00:44:37.739 --> 00:44:41.579
past that building on the train, you remember that that's where

920
00:44:41.579 --> 00:44:42.960
cybermen come from.

921
00:44:43.019 --> 00:44:46.980
So I think the cybermen are sort of a bit crummy and classic who

922
00:44:46.980 --> 00:44:50.099
and I think he does a very, very good job of reinventing them and

923
00:44:50.099 --> 00:44:50.579
making them work.

924
00:44:50.579 --> 00:44:54.300
And also Battersea Power Station is now being turned into a high

925
00:44:53.880 --> 00:44:55.320
end soulless flat.

926
00:44:55.380 --> 00:44:56.460
So I mean, nothing changes.

927
00:44:56.579 --> 00:45:00.239
Oh, but it's okay because when we get to the Dalek invasion of

928
00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:01.260
Earth, look at this.

929
00:45:01.860 --> 00:45:04.260
I'm going to go with the autons.

930
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:07.800
Oh, because they're such a perennially good idea.

931
00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:11.639
And we sort of had them twice in the early 70s and they were

932
00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:12.780
excellent both times.

933
00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:16.260
Bob Holmes was writing them, and it just seemed after the fact

934
00:45:16.260 --> 00:45:19.739
such a natural idea to use them to bring the series back because

935
00:45:19.739 --> 00:45:23.460
that image loomed large in the public consciousness.

936
00:45:23.699 --> 00:45:26.579
And they're just such a great idea.

937
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:29.159
It's incredible that we haven't revisited them since.

938
00:45:29.219 --> 00:45:32.219
I know we had a little bit of them in kind of the Pandoric are

939
00:45:32.219 --> 00:45:34.079
open, so that's not an auton story.

940
00:45:34.139 --> 00:45:38.579
What we really need now is a big two-part auton story playing to

941
00:45:38.579 --> 00:45:39.179
their strengths.

942
00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:42.059
It would be like Spearhead from Space all over again. written by

943
00:45:42.059 --> 00:45:42.780
Chris Chipner.

944
00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:43.860
Well, you know what?

945
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.559
I think that might play to his strengths because he's a bit of a

946
00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:49.679
70s, babe, and he has strong memories of that.

947
00:45:49.739 --> 00:45:52.559
And so I think if he's going to succeed, maybe that would be the

948
00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:53.400
vehicle to do it.

949
00:45:53.460 --> 00:45:56.039
And thinking back to his Iurian story, he could just go back and

950
00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:57.239
read the novel.

951
00:45:57.420 --> 00:45:59.099
That's true.

952
00:45:59.159 --> 00:46:01.920
You could do worse than a two-part based on the novel of spearhead

953
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:02.400
from space.

954
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:07.260
You know, one of the very 1st kind of leaks from the production

955
00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:13.019
that I ever saw back in 2005 or 2004 was that there would be

956
00:46:13.019 --> 00:46:16.860
autons in bridal dresses and it could always have happened.

957
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:19.559
You know, it could always have happened in Spearhead from space

958
00:46:19.559 --> 00:46:22.380
but just the fact that it happens in rows, you know, having Jackie

959
00:46:22.380 --> 00:46:26.579
attacked by autumns in bridal dresses is so great.

960
00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:28.199
So brilliant.

961
00:46:28.260 --> 00:46:31.320
And it's a shame because it's not, it doesn't come off all that

962
00:46:31.320 --> 00:46:31.800
well.

963
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:35.579
It's not staged particularly well, but the potency of the idea.

964
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:36.179
It's amazing.

965
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:38.400
I think I'll go with the Daleks.

966
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:42.000
I just that bringing back that sound.

967
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:43.920
I can already hear it now.

968
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:45.119
Womp, warm.

969
00:46:45.179 --> 00:46:47.159
Thank you, Chomp.

970
00:46:47.219 --> 00:46:53.940
But also just the way in which they can levitate, they can not be

971
00:46:53.940 --> 00:46:56.820
shot, blown up by, you know, a few shots.

972
00:46:56.880 --> 00:46:59.099
I'm thinking back to series one now.

973
00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:03.719
I just think that them in series one was just all that they needed

974
00:47:03.719 --> 00:47:04.079
to be.

975
00:47:04.139 --> 00:47:09.599
In their started late career, share Mad Max bronze leather look.

976
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:10.980
Yes.

977
00:47:11.039 --> 00:47:12.960
It's just like one of it.

978
00:47:13.019 --> 00:47:14.880
You can just see the fireworks going off on one of her stage

979
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:16.199
presentations, can't you?

980
00:47:16.260 --> 00:47:17.579
They're a bit share like, aren't they?

981
00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:18.360
How long have they been around?

982
00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:20.699
A long, long.

983
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:24.719
Just one touch by Billy Piper turns them into a powerful enemy.

984
00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:28.079
I'm not saying we'd been there with Chris Evans, but...

985
00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:32.460
Well, it's time for a house party and it's the monsters house

986
00:47:32.460 --> 00:47:32.940
party.

987
00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:34.380
So who are you going to invite?

988
00:47:34.619 --> 00:47:37.500
The jujune or the Centaurants?

989
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:38.639
What's different?

990
00:47:38.699 --> 00:47:39.840
Yeah.

991
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:41.820
One's hornier.

992
00:47:42.539 --> 00:47:46.019
I think I like the Jadoon more than the Santarans.

993
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:49.619
I'm, uh, I think I think the Santarians have been spoiled for me.

994
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:53.880
Although Chris Ryan, you know, he's pretty cool, but the Jadoon, a

995
00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:56.639
lot of leather, you know, I'm sure that we'd find something to

996
00:47:56.639 --> 00:47:56.820
do.

997
00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:59.519
They'd make good door bitches because they've got those things

998
00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:01.800
where they can mark your hand once you entered.

999
00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:04.920
The weeping angels or the Crillitains?

1000
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:08.159
Well, they get rid of, if you live in an old house, the

1001
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:10.800
acryletines would certainly get rid of all your unwanted pets

1002
00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:11.280
wouldn't they?

1003
00:48:14.340 --> 00:48:15.239
Weeping angels?

1004
00:48:15.420 --> 00:48:17.099
I don't know.

1005
00:48:17.159 --> 00:48:19.559
I love the idea of hide and seek.

1006
00:48:19.619 --> 00:48:21.059
Now that's a house party.

1007
00:48:21.179 --> 00:48:23.460
The oud or the adipose?

1008
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:27.719
Well, I think that some hybrid, the Udipose, the Udipose.

1009
00:48:27.780 --> 00:48:31.199
The Ud could just bring you food, and then you would eventually

1010
00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:32.760
produce your own adipose, I would think.

1011
00:48:32.820 --> 00:48:36.179
But would they bring you food or would they would their eyes turn

1012
00:48:36.179 --> 00:48:38.280
red and they would start a war against God?

1013
00:48:38.340 --> 00:48:40.559
Well, only if you deserved it though.

1014
00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:43.980
The lady Cassandra or the face of Beau?

1015
00:48:44.099 --> 00:48:46.500
I love the lady cassette.

1016
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:48.360
No, we all know where we're going with this, don't we?

1017
00:48:48.780 --> 00:48:51.059
Do you think it's the same character?

1018
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:53.880
Do you think that eventually she got a face stretch so much that

1019
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:55.380
it fitted over the bow frame?

1020
00:48:56.099 --> 00:48:59.760
That means that Jack is actually Cassandra.

1021
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:04.559
Isn't like, she's kind of the 1st villain, isn't she really?

1022
00:49:04.619 --> 00:49:06.659
And she's so great.

1023
00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:09.179
She's so funny and wonderful.

1024
00:49:09.420 --> 00:49:13.500
I just remember kids in class. you know, like, because this was so

1025
00:49:13.500 --> 00:49:13.800
huge.

1026
00:49:13.860 --> 00:49:17.579
Yeah, yeah, shedding out moisturise me and stuff as a joke.

1027
00:49:17.639 --> 00:49:19.920
I mean, just just so brilliant.

1028
00:49:19.980 --> 00:49:22.199
Also, if you're going to have a house party, you want someone

1029
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:24.360
who's going to sort of stand there and deliver waspish comments

1030
00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:25.320
that you can laugh at.

1031
00:49:25.380 --> 00:49:27.840
Yeah, I'll give something for the young people to bounce off.

1032
00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:30.420
Is that the face of both?

1033
00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:32.579
What if they thought, isn't it?

1034
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:37.500
Do you want a weekend with a Dalai Lama sitting on your haunches

1035
00:49:37.500 --> 00:49:41.280
you know, exchanging meaningful platitudes, or you just want a

1036
00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:45.659
really, there's a lot of really bitchy anecdotes and martinis.

1037
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:46.980
I don't think there's a competition.

1038
00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:50.699
The Guelf or the Vashtanarata?

1039
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:55.739
Vashinarada would certainly help you clean up the leftovers.

1040
00:49:55.800 --> 00:49:57.840
And then less whiffy.

1041
00:49:57.900 --> 00:49:59.460
That's true.

1042
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.119
The absorbeloff or the Jaggerfess.

1043
00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:09.659
These words, I can't get over.

1044
00:50:09.659 --> 00:50:10.860
So good.

1045
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:12.239
You'd have the absorber off.

1046
00:50:12.300 --> 00:50:14.579
You could feed unwanted guests to it and you'd go, taste like

1047
00:50:14.579 --> 00:50:15.000
chicken.

1048
00:50:16.260 --> 00:50:20.519
But again, another whiffy monster, you know, like another farty

1049
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:21.599
Russell monster.

1050
00:50:21.659 --> 00:50:24.300
The para vials or the beast?

1051
00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:27.900
Richard.

1052
00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:29.880
Well, they're both so hot.

1053
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:33.360
I'd go with the pyra vials.

1054
00:50:33.420 --> 00:50:35.340
They're better conversationalists.

1055
00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:36.119
Exactly.

1056
00:50:36.179 --> 00:50:38.219
And told your friend, Madame Pyrevile.

1057
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:40.079
Yes, my friend, thank you, Peter.

1058
00:50:40.139 --> 00:50:44.280
And uh, the wire or the Slavene.

1059
00:50:44.340 --> 00:50:45.960
Oh, that's a hard one.

1060
00:50:46.019 --> 00:50:48.119
Isn't the wire great?

1061
00:50:48.179 --> 00:50:50.820
We should have mentioned her in our search.

1062
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:53.099
Most valuable player. thing.

1063
00:50:53.159 --> 00:50:53.699
She's wonderful.

1064
00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:57.300
And she's played by a good enough actress that she can deliver

1065
00:50:57.300 --> 00:50:59.699
evil cackling and it's really quite good.

1066
00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:02.519
I think there's just Maureen Lippman as, you know, just sitting

1067
00:51:02.519 --> 00:51:03.480
there being herself.

1068
00:51:03.539 --> 00:51:04.619
I like it.

1069
00:51:04.739 --> 00:51:09.360
James and I did a big rewatch of agony after we did our Idiot's

1070
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:10.139
Lantern episode.

1071
00:51:10.199 --> 00:51:12.360
And I just loved her as a kid.

1072
00:51:12.420 --> 00:51:14.400
I think she's really super terrific.

1073
00:51:14.460 --> 00:51:15.900
But I think the Celine.

1074
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:19.260
I think the Selena, one of the best monsters that Russell's

1075
00:51:19.260 --> 00:51:21.719
created, like quite seriously.

1076
00:51:21.780 --> 00:51:27.539
I think that they work incredibly well because of the job that

1077
00:51:27.539 --> 00:51:30.539
they're doing in the satire that that story's doing.

1078
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:36.840
So it turns out our politicians are just fat, flatulent aliens who

1079
00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:41.460
will allow us all to be killed, provided that some people will

1080
00:51:41.460 --> 00:51:42.780
make a profit.

1081
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:48.000
And I think, as I said before, it's an absolute blistering satire

1082
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:52.559
of neoliberalism and just having them be childish and silly and

1083
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:56.280
farty and stuff, having them be genuinely funny.

1084
00:51:56.340 --> 00:52:01.139
Remember when Margaret Slaven is collecting all of their skin

1085
00:52:01.139 --> 00:52:03.659
suits and they hang them up.

1086
00:52:03.659 --> 00:52:06.840
And like one of them farts, she goes, oh, you know, that's the

1087
00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:08.460
that's the spirit or something.

1088
00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:11.639
Like they are, they are so wonderful.

1089
00:52:11.699 --> 00:52:12.840
They're so great.

1090
00:52:12.900 --> 00:52:16.079
So, yeah, I'm going with the Sabine.

1091
00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:18.840
Imagine how Russell would have written for COVID this year.

1092
00:52:18.900 --> 00:52:19.860
Yeah, yeah.

1093
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:23.460
I think we would have had him at his bitiest and probably also his

1094
00:52:23.460 --> 00:52:26.639
most humourous and you can bet he would have used this Levine.

1095
00:52:26.699 --> 00:52:30.179
Yeah, I think that, you know, aliens of London is massively

1096
00:52:30.179 --> 00:52:32.880
underrated because I don't think that Doctor Who has done

1097
00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:38.880
political satire, like that, like, maybe sort of, doesn't.

1098
00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:41.519
Makers, but Hulk isn't as funny.

1099
00:52:41.579 --> 00:52:43.199
You know, he just isn't as funny.

1100
00:52:43.260 --> 00:52:46.199
So I think that that story is a real achievement.

1101
00:52:46.260 --> 00:52:50.519
It's super surprising at every turn and the Savina, a huge part of

1102
00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:50.699
that.

1103
00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:53.519
And I think it might be a shame that it was one of the few times

1104
00:52:53.519 --> 00:52:55.139
that Russell pulled his punches.

1105
00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:58.139
They saw the reaction to the slithine, which was not universally

1106
00:52:58.139 --> 00:52:59.579
positive.

1107
00:52:59.639 --> 00:53:03.360
And I think decided really not to use them again. they kind of get

1108
00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:06.960
hived off into a Sarah Jane Adventures monster, which is a shame.

1109
00:53:07.019 --> 00:53:09.119
But before they do, we get Boomtown.

1110
00:53:09.179 --> 00:53:12.119
And Boomtown is so good with the slithine.

1111
00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:15.179
If you've got a good actress playing them and you just have a

1112
00:53:15.179 --> 00:53:15.840
single character.

1113
00:53:15.900 --> 00:53:18.480
They're amongst the best enemies that we've ever had.

1114
00:53:18.539 --> 00:53:20.159
So it's a shame that they don't get used more.

1115
00:53:20.219 --> 00:53:23.639
Well, it is that 1st day of filming with the costumes and Keith

1116
00:53:23.639 --> 00:53:24.239
Boke.

1117
00:53:24.300 --> 00:53:25.920
You know, they were never going to survive that.

1118
00:53:25.980 --> 00:53:27.179
It's a big problem.

1119
00:53:27.300 --> 00:53:29.880
We do have this listener question that came in.

1120
00:53:29.940 --> 00:53:32.940
It's from a Natan Botomli.

1121
00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:37.679
And it says, what is the best story of...

1122
00:53:38.039 --> 00:53:40.860
What is the best story of the RTD era?

1123
00:53:40.860 --> 00:53:42.480
And why is it aliens of London?

1124
00:53:42.539 --> 00:53:45.420
Perhaps you can answer or have answered that question?

1125
00:53:45.539 --> 00:53:46.679
You probably have.

1126
00:53:46.739 --> 00:53:49.139
You have the support of the masses, Nathan.

1127
00:53:49.260 --> 00:53:51.239
Everyone agrees with me.

1128
00:54:00.300 --> 00:54:01.800
What is the one to watch?

1129
00:54:01.860 --> 00:54:04.980
What is the one that you always go back to in this entire era if

1130
00:54:04.980 --> 00:54:05.519
you had to sit down?

1131
00:54:05.699 --> 00:54:08.400
Impossible planet in the Satan pits?

1132
00:54:08.460 --> 00:54:09.059
Wow, okay.

1133
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:11.039
I think it's phenomenally good.

1134
00:54:11.099 --> 00:54:15.659
It's such a melding of Russell sensibility with a Hinchcliffe

1135
00:54:15.659 --> 00:54:20.820
style story and, you know, a sort of lost evil coming back from

1136
00:54:20.820 --> 00:54:21.360
the dead.

1137
00:54:21.420 --> 00:54:24.960
And of course, that lovely friend of the podcast, Matt Jones

1138
00:54:25.019 --> 00:54:27.000
that's his era, Henchcliffe.

1139
00:54:27.059 --> 00:54:28.260
And so we were always going to get that.

1140
00:54:28.380 --> 00:54:32.760
And I just think, um, it's the two-parter that's brilliantly

1141
00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:37.679
structured and has a really great um, a really great ensemble cast

1142
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:39.780
all of whom you get to know and love.

1143
00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:41.940
And I just think it's knockout.

1144
00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:46.199
I think it's except for one other, which we will come to.

1145
00:54:46.260 --> 00:54:48.360
It is the best story of the new era.

1146
00:54:48.900 --> 00:54:54.239
My go to tends to be the series one finale, the two-part finale

1147
00:54:54.239 --> 00:54:55.199
for series one.

1148
00:54:55.260 --> 00:54:58.619
And it is because of what you were saying before, Peter.

1149
00:54:58.679 --> 00:55:03.599
You know, it does those send-ups of TV, um, then it changes to be

1150
00:55:03.599 --> 00:55:09.119
like a traditional Doctor Who Dalek story, and inside that Doctor

1151
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:12.179
Who Dalek story, there's Jackie and Mickey playing their part as

1152
00:55:12.179 --> 00:55:12.480
well.

1153
00:55:12.539 --> 00:55:15.659
It, you know, summarises the era.

1154
00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:17.099
It's super confident.

1155
00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:18.780
It's incredibly entertaining.

1156
00:55:18.840 --> 00:55:20.760
I just think it's magnificent.

1157
00:55:20.820 --> 00:55:22.980
It's the one that I watch. maybe more than anything else.

1158
00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:27.059
And even within all of the plot that we've got in those stories

1159
00:55:27.059 --> 00:55:29.699
and all the big things it does, you still have a brilliant new

1160
00:55:29.699 --> 00:55:31.440
character in the form of Linda with a Y.

1161
00:55:31.500 --> 00:55:32.519
Yeah, yeah.

1162
00:55:32.579 --> 00:55:34.139
She's a great one off too.

1163
00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:35.219
Yeah, isn't she?

1164
00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:38.400
Richard is there one that leaps to your mind?

1165
00:55:38.460 --> 00:55:43.619
I do keep going back to Moffat stories in this era as being just

1166
00:55:43.619 --> 00:55:46.380
little jewels, probably because they were just so very different.

1167
00:55:46.440 --> 00:55:51.119
They stood as a different dress, a different.

1168
00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:54.360
You could really feel that this is someone who has a completely

1169
00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:58.440
different way of viewing the series, of viewing the concept than

1170
00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:00.059
Russell.

1171
00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:01.380
Can I posit as well, Richard?

1172
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:04.980
A story that you've been a very effective champion for, Daleks in

1173
00:56:04.980 --> 00:56:05.519
Manhattan.

1174
00:56:05.579 --> 00:56:06.780
And you know, the Daleks?

1175
00:56:06.840 --> 00:56:07.380
didn't want to.

1176
00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:10.440
I am not even a fan of musicals, but I keep going back to it.

1177
00:56:10.920 --> 00:56:14.099
Is there an argument that that's the best of the era for you?

1178
00:56:14.159 --> 00:56:16.199
It fills the warmest and the most fun.

1179
00:56:16.260 --> 00:56:19.679
And if we're talking about this period of writing being about the

1180
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:24.960
familial, the comfy and the, you know, the huge sponge, the

1181
00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:25.920
victorious sponge.

1182
00:56:25.980 --> 00:56:26.940
It's that one.

1183
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:29.639
I actually think it's because of Miranda Raisin.

1184
00:56:29.699 --> 00:56:33.360
She really makes it work and I love her.

1185
00:56:33.420 --> 00:56:36.599
She's probably one of my favourite companions in all of the big

1186
00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:40.920
Finnish audios and she plays, I mean, she plays lovely RP Wren.

1187
00:56:40.980 --> 00:56:44.159
So, of course, we love her and Colin adores her.

1188
00:56:44.280 --> 00:56:46.679
So, what's her name again?

1189
00:56:46.739 --> 00:56:48.480
Todd in the, have you listened to them yet?

1190
00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:51.900
on the, um, the big fishes with, she's just lovely.

1191
00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:54.480
Just, just, just, love, love, love, love, love, love, love.

1192
00:56:54.539 --> 00:56:55.440
So yeah, no, of course.

1193
00:56:55.500 --> 00:56:57.900
I know I keep going back to that. do.

1194
00:56:58.019 --> 00:57:03.360
It is, it is really interesting how, like, we're all fans, but we

1195
00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:06.960
all have such different opinions, like, if you, if you ask me one

1196
00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:10.199
to avoid, that would be the, the one that I would avoid watching.

1197
00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:10.980
That one.

1198
00:57:10.980 --> 00:57:13.800
Um, against everything else, if you said, I want to put that on, I

1199
00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:16.260
would say, I don't really want to watch it, like 9 times out of

1200
00:57:16.260 --> 00:57:16.380
10.

1201
00:57:16.619 --> 00:57:17.639
So it's really interesting.

1202
00:57:17.699 --> 00:57:21.480
Are you going to ask us one to avoid because it's definitely going

1203
00:57:21.480 --> 00:57:22.440
to be the doctor's daughter?

1204
00:57:22.500 --> 00:57:24.719
You've just answered that question.

1205
00:57:26.039 --> 00:57:28.079
Nathan will watch everything.

1206
00:57:28.139 --> 00:57:30.480
I think I will pretty much watch everything.

1207
00:57:30.539 --> 00:57:35.159
I actually find myself, and this is super weird, avoiding the

1208
00:57:35.159 --> 00:57:37.440
Moffatt ones, apart from blink.

1209
00:57:37.500 --> 00:57:41.579
Oh, and it might be like a feeling that I need to save them up for

1210
00:57:41.579 --> 00:57:44.159
a special occasion or something, or I don't want to waste them, you

1211
00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:47.880
know, like, but when it comes to blink, I can't resist that urge.

1212
00:57:47.940 --> 00:57:50.159
It's the Gareth Roberts City of Death Rule.

1213
00:57:50.219 --> 00:57:53.400
He not city of death, and yet he's watched it a sum total of 3

1214
00:57:53.400 --> 00:57:56.400
times because he cannot spoil it by watching it too often.

1215
00:57:56.460 --> 00:57:57.300
So interesting.

1216
00:57:57.420 --> 00:58:01.440
I mean, blink is probably my favourite.

1217
00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:06.300
Carrie Mulligan, every time we name a story that we love, it's

1218
00:58:06.300 --> 00:58:13.019
because of supremely superior. female casting and writing.

1219
00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:16.440
But also, which should go in to say, I really like historical

1220
00:58:16.440 --> 00:58:16.920
settings.

1221
00:58:16.980 --> 00:58:22.440
So you give me Pompeii or you give me the Shakespeare code or the

1222
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:27.599
werewolf with Queen Victoria or now you've done it with Agatha

1223
00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:30.059
Christie, they are also go-to's for me.

1224
00:58:30.119 --> 00:58:31.679
Totally with you on that one, Todd.

1225
00:58:31.739 --> 00:58:34.980
I like the fact that we have historical settings, obviously with

1226
00:58:34.980 --> 00:58:38.340
the sci-fi element, but you know, characters in there that are

1227
00:58:38.340 --> 00:58:44.280
funny and relatable and you I'm often having a whale of a time in

1228
00:58:44.280 --> 00:58:45.239
most of those.

1229
00:58:45.300 --> 00:58:47.940
See, when we were growing up and watching Doctor Who.

1230
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:51.780
There was a huge run that just avoided historicals, wasn't there?

1231
00:58:51.840 --> 00:58:56.219
Like Williams and and, you know, the Davis and era and stuff.

1232
00:58:56.280 --> 00:58:58.320
They just weren't that many historical stories.

1233
00:58:58.380 --> 00:59:02.460
So exciting to see a Renaissance sitting room, wasn't it?

1234
00:59:02.699 --> 00:59:05.039
What came with thumb screws.

1235
00:59:06.539 --> 00:59:10.619
Whenever they did do a pseudohistorical, as they were called back

1236
00:59:10.619 --> 00:59:11.880
then, they were always good.

1237
00:59:11.940 --> 00:59:12.420
Yeah.

1238
00:59:12.420 --> 00:59:14.699
Maskman Dragara, the time warrior.

1239
00:59:14.699 --> 00:59:16.320
Maskman.

1240
00:59:18.780 --> 00:59:19.800
Black Orchard.

1241
00:59:19.860 --> 00:59:22.260
Oh, that's cool.

1242
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:24.059
That's great fatigue.

1243
00:59:24.059 --> 00:59:24.539
It's drunk.

1244
00:59:24.599 --> 00:59:25.739
Mark of the Rani.

1245
00:59:25.800 --> 00:59:26.699
Actually, I like Mark.

1246
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:30.000
They glow don't they?

1247
00:59:30.599 --> 00:59:32.940
Like strontium 90.

1248
00:59:33.119 --> 00:59:37.079
One of the things Russell has introduced in this era are the

1249
00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:37.920
Christmas specials.

1250
00:59:37.980 --> 00:59:39.119
Yes.

1251
00:59:39.119 --> 00:59:41.699
I think you're doing John Wiles a disservice there.

1252
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:45.960
I invited you.

1253
00:59:46.139 --> 00:59:48.300
When we feast on Stephen.

1254
00:59:48.420 --> 00:59:52.380
What I mean is meat and beef and pork and fat.

1255
00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:55.739
Well, he was getting bigger is the role, you've got to admit.

1256
00:59:55.800 --> 00:59:58.320
Getting him into that jumper and the celestial toy maker was like

1257
00:59:58.320 --> 00:59:59.519
getting toothpaste back in the tube.

1258
01:00:00.179 --> 01:00:02.460
Sorry, Todd, do go on.

1259
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:05.039
As an annual event.

1260
01:00:05.099 --> 01:00:08.039
And all of them are with David Tennant thus far.

1261
01:00:08.099 --> 01:00:11.519
But they all have their moments like the Christmas invasion.

1262
01:00:11.579 --> 01:00:12.719
Like that Christmas tree.

1263
01:00:12.780 --> 01:00:15.780
I'm going to be killed by a Christmas tree that is still a moment

1264
01:00:15.780 --> 01:00:18.119
that is glazed in my head.

1265
01:00:18.179 --> 01:00:22.559
You know, in the runaway bride when the doctor doctor's got the

1266
01:00:22.559 --> 01:00:23.820
TARDIS coming down the freeway.

1267
01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:25.860
Like, I mean, another amazing moment.

1268
01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:27.300
Santa's a robot.

1269
01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:32.039
The voice of the dam, which is my favourite of those being a

1270
01:00:32.039 --> 01:00:33.179
complete disaster movie.

1271
01:00:33.239 --> 01:00:36.179
And of course, we've got the next doctor in the end of time.

1272
01:00:36.239 --> 01:00:40.380
So they're probably not in my top three.

1273
01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:41.699
What are your favourites of these?

1274
01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:44.579
And what do you think of having this Christmas event?

1275
01:00:44.940 --> 01:00:46.739
I adore it.

1276
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:47.519
Yep.

1277
01:00:47.579 --> 01:00:51.119
It's everything I, I, my little secret child inside.

1278
01:00:51.179 --> 01:00:52.619
Oh, yes, I love I love this.

1279
01:00:52.679 --> 01:00:53.820
The adult self says.

1280
01:00:53.880 --> 01:00:57.059
But no, no, this is for this is for our little child.

1281
01:00:57.119 --> 01:00:59.039
This is for the little person inside.

1282
01:00:59.099 --> 01:01:00.000
I agree with you.

1283
01:01:00.059 --> 01:01:03.599
I think they got less as they went on, but that's maybe just the

1284
01:01:03.599 --> 01:01:08.219
tyranny of time and the requirements of writing so much.

1285
01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:13.440
But I still think Christmas invasion is possibly David's best

1286
01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:15.539
performances, the doctor.

1287
01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:16.500
Can I put it out there?

1288
01:01:16.559 --> 01:01:21.420
And I'm not saying it's because I don't see him for most times.

1289
01:01:21.480 --> 01:01:25.739
But he really gets it and it's is exactly the way he plays

1290
01:01:25.739 --> 01:01:27.420
Casanova, even to the hair.

1291
01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:30.300
It's the same performance at the end.

1292
01:01:30.300 --> 01:01:32.940
And I'm thinking, oh, you're a little bit much, but it's just so

1293
01:01:32.940 --> 01:01:36.000
refreshing after a year of beautiful Eccleston.

1294
01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:37.980
And I mean that, I loved him.

1295
01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:39.599
But just to see someone having fun.

1296
01:01:40.079 --> 01:01:42.960
He really loves being here.

1297
01:01:43.019 --> 01:01:46.260
He's so proud of this moment and he's giving it so much.

1298
01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:50.159
How can you not but get carried along with it?

1299
01:01:50.519 --> 01:01:54.960
I retweeted something during the week or last week's, uh, where

1300
01:01:54.960 --> 01:01:57.900
someone was calling for an immediate inquiry into why there were

1301
01:01:57.900 --> 01:02:01.139
no more Doctor Who Christmas specials anymore, like a trial with

1302
01:02:01.139 --> 01:02:04.380
uh, you know, prosecutions and perhaps Bellingham.

1303
01:02:04.440 --> 01:02:07.980
Like, I just think it's crazy that we don't have them anymore.

1304
01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:13.980
And they are a huge part of what made this show as big as

1305
01:02:13.980 --> 01:02:14.280
possible.

1306
01:02:14.340 --> 01:02:16.440
I mean, what gets Christmas specials?

1307
01:02:16.500 --> 01:02:17.940
You know, EastEnders.

1308
01:02:17.940 --> 01:02:19.320
Call the midwife.

1309
01:02:19.380 --> 01:02:22.860
Yeah, just the biggest shows on TV get Christmas specials.

1310
01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:24.300
Miss Brown's boys.

1311
01:02:24.659 --> 01:02:26.400
Absolutely true.

1312
01:02:26.460 --> 01:02:29.159
For all of its many sins, it's one of the biggest shows.

1313
01:02:29.219 --> 01:02:32.099
And so Doctor Who becomes the biggest show on TV.

1314
01:02:32.159 --> 01:02:33.360
How does that for a crossover?

1315
01:02:34.320 --> 01:02:35.699
God.

1316
01:02:35.699 --> 01:02:36.480
No.

1317
01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:40.019
Mrs. Morbius's boys.

1318
01:02:41.280 --> 01:02:43.139
Same actors.

1319
01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:46.739
But they're also my go-to's. even past this era.

1320
01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:47.579
Yeah.

1321
01:02:47.579 --> 01:02:51.780
Because there's a warmth in them even when there's bad things

1322
01:02:51.780 --> 01:02:55.199
happening and there's a joy usually at the end.

1323
01:02:55.260 --> 01:02:58.679
And I just, they're also my go-to is when I think about watching

1324
01:02:58.679 --> 01:03:01.619
things, it's often I'll come up, and I say to myself, I want to

1325
01:03:01.619 --> 01:03:02.519
watch a Christmas special.

1326
01:03:02.579 --> 01:03:07.739
I think it's great that they're on and that they're big, fun

1327
01:03:07.739 --> 01:03:10.920
family oriented shows which reek of Christmas day.

1328
01:03:10.980 --> 01:03:14.639
I think there is a slight structural problem in that it becomes

1329
01:03:14.639 --> 01:03:18.300
every 14th episode of Doctor Who is about Christmas, but I think

1330
01:03:18.300 --> 01:03:20.340
that becomes less of a problem as it goes on.

1331
01:03:20.400 --> 01:03:24.360
The Christmas elements are kind of really jammed into Runaway

1332
01:03:24.360 --> 01:03:24.900
Bride.

1333
01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:27.179
But then you start getting different takes on things.

1334
01:03:27.239 --> 01:03:30.780
So you'll end up with an episode later on, like the snowmen, which

1335
01:03:30.780 --> 01:03:32.820
is not very Christmassy at all, but has all the Christmas

1336
01:03:32.820 --> 01:03:36.539
trappings of Victorian London and snow and all that.

1337
01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:38.460
I think that probably gets it right.

1338
01:03:38.519 --> 01:03:42.000
So I get a little bit tired of the Christmas elements, but I'm

1339
01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:44.400
with Todd, I think Voyage of the Damned is the best of the Russell

1340
01:03:44.400 --> 01:03:44.820
ones.

1341
01:03:44.880 --> 01:03:45.780
So good.

1342
01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:50.760
I think, um, you know, like even quite late, like Moffat finds new

1343
01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:53.519
things to do with the Christmas special and something like last

1344
01:03:53.519 --> 01:03:59.820
Christmas, which I think is unjustly overlooked. is Christmassy

1345
01:03:59.820 --> 01:04:02.460
and uses Christmas to say a particular thing.

1346
01:04:02.519 --> 01:04:06.000
I think it's a great idea and I think we should never have given

1347
01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:08.219
that particular time slot up.

1348
01:04:08.280 --> 01:04:12.960
And it stops being about Christmas and starts being about big

1349
01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:14.820
things that you wouldn't normally do in the series.

1350
01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:18.420
So it becomes the rom-com with the husbands of River Song and it

1351
01:04:18.420 --> 01:04:22.320
becomes the DC movie with the return of Dr. Mysterio.

1352
01:04:22.380 --> 01:04:24.840
And so you save the Christmas slot, not necessarily for a

1353
01:04:24.840 --> 01:04:28.320
Christmas episode, but for a big ballsy adventure, you might not

1354
01:04:28.320 --> 01:04:28.800
otherwise do.

1355
01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:31.260
It helps focus, I think, Stephen Moffatt.

1356
01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:34.860
And it helps, I think, Russell sort of reset things after we've

1357
01:04:34.860 --> 01:04:37.559
been crying our eyes out, really.

1358
01:04:37.619 --> 01:04:40.440
So I think they're a success in every, every way, shape and form.

1359
01:04:40.500 --> 01:04:45.119
We haven't talked much about the production side of things.

1360
01:04:45.179 --> 01:04:48.960
There's a number of directors that keep coming back in this era.

1361
01:04:49.019 --> 01:04:54.719
You're a slim directs at least 11 episodes, Graham Harper 12, James

1362
01:04:54.719 --> 01:04:55.739
Strong 7.

1363
01:04:55.800 --> 01:05:00.000
Um, and there's others like Elvis Troughton.

1364
01:05:00.059 --> 01:05:02.099
I'm just reading a list of names here.

1365
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:06.300
Douglas McKinnon, Charles Palmer, Hetty, McDonald, Colin Teague

1366
01:05:06.300 --> 01:05:09.900
you know, James Hawes does 5 back in series one.

1367
01:05:09.960 --> 01:05:11.400
Joe O'Hearn.

1368
01:05:12.179 --> 01:05:15.179
Are there any directors for you that stand out?

1369
01:05:15.239 --> 01:05:17.880
I mean, I've mentioned before, the stellar drop that I think

1370
01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:22.019
Graham Harper did back in throughout series 4 and certainly Eurus

1371
01:05:22.019 --> 01:05:24.539
coming back at the end, you can see why.

1372
01:05:24.599 --> 01:05:30.000
And it just gives this whole era by using similar people.

1373
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:32.460
And most of them, most of them are fairly successful.

1374
01:05:33.719 --> 01:05:39.179
It just gives it a flavour that I really now appreciate so much

1375
01:05:39.179 --> 01:05:39.420
more.

1376
01:05:39.599 --> 01:05:43.619
You never have to worry about the directors in the Russell era.

1377
01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:44.519
They always deliver.

1378
01:05:44.579 --> 01:05:46.139
There's never a weak link.

1379
01:05:46.199 --> 01:05:50.519
You can have different style, you can have different focusses.

1380
01:05:50.579 --> 01:05:52.500
You mean from season 2 onwards?

1381
01:05:52.619 --> 01:05:55.139
Maybe from block 2 on.

1382
01:05:55.199 --> 01:05:56.219
Maybe it's a lot too on.

1383
01:05:56.280 --> 01:05:57.300
Yes, I've forgotten, Keith.

1384
01:05:57.360 --> 01:05:58.199
Let's not forget.

1385
01:05:58.260 --> 01:05:59.639
Keith also has some strengths.

1386
01:05:59.699 --> 01:06:04.019
The scene, the very 1st scene that they shot, which is space piggy

1387
01:06:04.019 --> 01:06:08.940
in the morgue, is a really effectively shot scene.

1388
01:06:09.000 --> 01:06:11.880
So, you know, I think maybe he might have been a little bit out of

1389
01:06:11.880 --> 01:06:14.639
his depth, but he does do some good work, but yeah, let's not

1390
01:06:14.639 --> 01:06:15.420
include him on the list.

1391
01:06:15.659 --> 01:06:19.260
So you'll get people like Graham Harper who just deliver time

1392
01:06:19.260 --> 01:06:20.639
after time in any kind of story.

1393
01:06:20.699 --> 01:06:23.579
He'll give the unicorn and the wasp one week and then he'll give

1394
01:06:23.579 --> 01:06:24.960
you the stolen earth the next week.

1395
01:06:25.019 --> 01:06:29.219
But also occasionally you'll get in a director like Hetty McDonald

1396
01:06:29.219 --> 01:06:32.760
who just comes in and gives her own spin and Blink is so

1397
01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:36.300
beautifully directed and not like a normal Doctor Who story.

1398
01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:37.139
A couple of butch.

1399
01:06:37.199 --> 01:06:38.699
They're both quite camp, aren't they?

1400
01:06:38.760 --> 01:06:40.920
Harper and Hertie.

1401
01:06:42.900 --> 01:06:45.599
Very similar styles too, both of them.

1402
01:06:45.659 --> 01:06:47.639
I mean, I actually look at their directorial style.

1403
01:06:47.699 --> 01:06:51.179
They could both be jumped into an episode of the New Avengers and

1404
01:06:51.179 --> 01:06:54.659
get Joanna Lumley's high kicks over the barbed wire fence without

1405
01:06:54.659 --> 01:06:56.280
tearing her stockings very easily.

1406
01:06:56.340 --> 01:07:00.000
Am I incorrect in thinking that Hetty McDonald actually directed

1407
01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:02.880
the seminal gay love story beautiful thing?

1408
01:07:02.940 --> 01:07:04.260
Yeah, she did.

1409
01:07:04.320 --> 01:07:05.820
So, you know, she was a real fine.

1410
01:07:05.880 --> 01:07:08.340
She a feature film director and she comes in and does one episode

1411
01:07:08.340 --> 01:07:10.079
of our series and just knocks it straight out of life.

1412
01:07:10.139 --> 01:07:11.039
Yeah, we're lucky to get her.

1413
01:07:11.280 --> 01:07:13.079
Here are some names.

1414
01:07:13.139 --> 01:07:15.179
Julie Gardner, Phil Collinson.

1415
01:07:15.239 --> 01:07:16.800
Susie Liggett.

1416
01:07:16.860 --> 01:07:20.940
Lorraine Hecase, controller of BBC One, Jane Tranter, controller

1417
01:07:20.940 --> 01:07:21.960
of drama commissioning.

1418
01:07:22.019 --> 01:07:23.280
Your thoughts on these people?

1419
01:07:24.179 --> 01:07:28.500
One of the things that I miss about Doctor Who from about halfway

1420
01:07:28.500 --> 01:07:30.780
through the Moffat era onwards?

1421
01:07:30.840 --> 01:07:33.659
is just knowing those people.

1422
01:07:33.719 --> 01:07:38.159
You know, do you remember the project Who CD, which was that audio

1423
01:07:38.159 --> 01:07:43.619
documentary that they did about how Doctor Who started again, and

1424
01:07:43.619 --> 01:07:49.440
then Doctor Who Confidential, and then all of those, they released

1425
01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:54.599
commentaries as a podcast, like in the week of broadcast, and just

1426
01:07:54.599 --> 01:07:59.760
knowing all of those people, to the extent that, you know, that I

1427
01:07:59.760 --> 01:08:03.300
would walk 500 miles, thing, the proclaimers thing that they do

1428
01:08:03.300 --> 01:08:05.219
with all of the cast and crew.

1429
01:08:05.280 --> 01:08:10.679
Like, it never fails to bring tears to my eyes, just because, you

1430
01:08:10.679 --> 01:08:14.699
know, Russell created that world, but also created that production

1431
01:08:14.699 --> 01:08:18.300
team that we kind of got to know because we were kind of, you know

1432
01:08:18.300 --> 01:08:20.939
absurdly obsessed with all of this.

1433
01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:24.119
And I miss, I kind of miss that level.

1434
01:08:24.180 --> 01:08:25.439
I didn't have access.

1435
01:08:25.500 --> 01:08:26.460
I didn't know any of them.

1436
01:08:26.520 --> 01:08:27.960
I know maybe one person on that.

1437
01:08:28.020 --> 01:08:30.239
We were our friends, though, in the extension.

1438
01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:31.439
We were our friends, yeah.

1439
01:08:31.500 --> 01:08:33.060
I loved fill and Julie.

1440
01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:33.779
I really do.

1441
01:08:33.840 --> 01:08:35.039
Yes, I want this spinoff.

1442
01:08:35.159 --> 01:08:39.659
Well, think about, you know, like, his dark materials, which I'm

1443
01:08:39.659 --> 01:08:42.840
watching at the moment is Jane Trantor and Julie Gardner, and I

1444
01:08:42.840 --> 01:08:44.520
think our Ross has worked on that too.

1445
01:08:44.579 --> 01:08:48.420
You know, like it's, I miss those people when they all went away, I

1446
01:08:48.420 --> 01:08:48.600
think.

1447
01:08:48.659 --> 01:08:52.560
The impression you got was that they made Doctor Who for 16 hours

1448
01:08:52.560 --> 01:08:55.380
a day and then would gather in each other's lounge rooms and laugh

1449
01:08:55.380 --> 01:08:55.979
about the day.

1450
01:08:56.220 --> 01:08:59.220
Not unlike this podcast.

1451
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:01.739
They just gather around and talk nonsense about Doctor Who.

1452
01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:03.420
And it was beautiful.

1453
01:09:03.479 --> 01:09:06.180
And I think that's all to Russell's credit as well because he

1454
01:09:06.180 --> 01:09:11.220
attracted those very personable, very competent people to the

1455
01:09:11.220 --> 01:09:12.600
series and they all jelled.

1456
01:09:16.079 --> 01:09:20.760
The music of Murray Gold. is one other thing that I'd like to talk

1457
01:09:20.760 --> 01:09:23.399
about before we head to a conclusion.

1458
01:09:23.640 --> 01:09:28.380
For me, knew who is about what he does.

1459
01:09:28.560 --> 01:09:32.640
It's a distinction between classic and Yoo Hoo, and I absolutely

1460
01:09:32.640 --> 01:09:39.359
adore his scoring of themes of pivotal moments, perhaps telling a

1461
01:09:39.359 --> 01:09:42.539
sport how to feel at times, but I really adore it, and I think

1462
01:09:42.539 --> 01:09:47.220
Stephen, to keep him on, was the right decision to make at that

1463
01:09:47.220 --> 01:09:47.520
time.

1464
01:09:47.579 --> 01:09:52.680
And yes, I know some people who listen to the podcast feel that

1465
01:09:52.680 --> 01:09:54.899
he's very intrusive at times.

1466
01:09:54.960 --> 01:10:00.539
But when I think of Doctor Who, then you who, it's just something

1467
01:10:00.539 --> 01:10:03.600
that is the forefront of my mind and I think the man's a genius.

1468
01:10:03.720 --> 01:10:08.399
I just think complaining that the music is telling you how to feel

1469
01:10:08.460 --> 01:10:13.140
seems like that's a baffling thing to say. you know what I mean?

1470
01:10:13.199 --> 01:10:17.760
It's, it's, um, it's what the music is for, and this is a

1471
01:10:17.760 --> 01:10:24.119
melodrama, and it's an adventure story, and having something big

1472
01:10:24.119 --> 01:10:28.800
and orchestral, like a Star Wars film would have, like, you know

1473
01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:30.239
Indiana Jones has.

1474
01:10:30.300 --> 01:10:33.180
I think it was absolutely the right choice.

1475
01:10:33.239 --> 01:10:37.260
And, you know, there are times where you can see Murray recycling

1476
01:10:37.260 --> 01:10:38.699
some music cues and all of that.

1477
01:10:38.760 --> 01:10:42.659
Like he's not always bringing his A game and I watched the 11th

1478
01:10:42.659 --> 01:10:46.199
hour yesterday and he's clearly decided to just absolutely sort of

1479
01:10:46.199 --> 01:10:49.319
amp things up a bit and do an incredible job there.

1480
01:10:49.380 --> 01:10:54.600
But even in Russell's era, it's just an indispensable part of the

1481
01:10:54.600 --> 01:10:57.539
way the era feels, it's wonderful.

1482
01:10:57.600 --> 01:10:58.920
It's another.

1483
01:10:58.979 --> 01:10:59.640
Yeah, yeah.

1484
01:10:59.699 --> 01:11:03.300
And each story has a different flavour.

1485
01:11:03.359 --> 01:11:07.500
So even though he's working to a formula and it's Murray on every

1486
01:11:07.500 --> 01:11:07.979
episode.

1487
01:11:08.039 --> 01:11:12.239
So much of what I think of these stories in my mind's eye is to do

1488
01:11:12.239 --> 01:11:14.640
with how they sound, and that's entirely down to him.

1489
01:11:14.699 --> 01:11:18.840
I think he's phenomenal and I would be very happy if he was still

1490
01:11:18.840 --> 01:11:19.319
on the show now.

1491
01:11:19.380 --> 01:11:21.119
I think he's a good structuralist.

1492
01:11:21.180 --> 01:11:25.560
He certainly understands the way an orchestra works.

1493
01:11:25.619 --> 01:11:28.619
And maybe this is what film composers need to be and always have

1494
01:11:28.619 --> 01:11:30.239
been going right back to corn gold.

1495
01:11:30.300 --> 01:11:31.859
He's a good bricker largest.

1496
01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:36.300
So whether he's doing caccatourian or Sanson, you know, and

1497
01:11:36.300 --> 01:11:41.039
everyone in between, he does it really, obviously, he's quite

1498
01:11:41.039 --> 01:11:43.859
exploitative of past composer's work.

1499
01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:46.140
But then again, I can't really think of a successful.

1500
01:11:46.260 --> 01:11:47.220
John Williams does that too.

1501
01:11:47.279 --> 01:11:49.680
I can't think of a successful composer who doesn't do that.

1502
01:11:49.739 --> 01:11:51.180
And in his own right.

1503
01:11:51.239 --> 01:11:55.680
I mean, I do love, I do love Auntie Flavia's theme.

1504
01:11:55.739 --> 01:11:58.439
I love what I can't forgive Timothy Dalton for what he did to

1505
01:11:58.439 --> 01:11:58.619
her.

1506
01:11:58.920 --> 01:12:01.079
I do love...

1507
01:12:01.140 --> 01:12:02.819
Yeah, I love his little mood moments.

1508
01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:06.840
He understands what scoring needs to be.

1509
01:12:06.899 --> 01:12:12.300
And yes, it is big and it's always full of marshmallow and fat and

1510
01:12:12.300 --> 01:12:16.020
cholesterol and all the good things that it should be.

1511
01:12:16.079 --> 01:12:18.420
Yeah, I go, he's absolutely right for Russell.

1512
01:12:18.479 --> 01:12:21.420
Let's see if he's right for Moffatt, but I'm certainly agree with

1513
01:12:21.420 --> 01:12:22.020
you, Tom.

1514
01:12:22.079 --> 01:12:23.159
It's what we needed.

1515
01:12:23.279 --> 01:12:27.300
And people complain that he scores for characters as well, but

1516
01:12:27.300 --> 01:12:29.699
that overlooks the fact that every one of his themes for the

1517
01:12:29.699 --> 01:12:30.899
regular characters is amazing.

1518
01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:31.560
Yeah brilliant.

1519
01:12:31.619 --> 01:12:34.619
That rose theme from series one, which then carries over into

1520
01:12:34.619 --> 01:12:36.899
series 2 and then gets referenced onwards.

1521
01:12:36.960 --> 01:12:41.159
It even plays when Mickey leaves in the age of steel, is

1522
01:12:41.159 --> 01:12:41.939
phenomenally.

1523
01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:44.100
Martha's theme is beautiful.

1524
01:12:44.159 --> 01:12:45.779
So gorgeous, isn't it?

1525
01:12:45.899 --> 01:12:47.279
And he does different things with it.

1526
01:12:47.340 --> 01:12:51.060
Donna's theme is really fun and funny. that all the strange

1527
01:12:51.060 --> 01:12:54.840
strange creatures thing that was used, you know, on Next Time

1528
01:12:54.840 --> 01:12:57.960
trailers and stuff, you know, just so good.

1529
01:12:58.020 --> 01:13:01.920
And the most heartbreaking thing he ever did, which is Donna's

1530
01:13:01.920 --> 01:13:06.060
theme from turn left, which he then recycles for when she has the

1531
01:13:06.060 --> 01:13:08.279
metacrisis and has to have her mind wiped.

1532
01:13:08.340 --> 01:13:11.340
And it gets you in the heart every time.

1533
01:13:11.819 --> 01:13:16.500
Your final thoughts on the different Tardis teams of this era.

1534
01:13:16.560 --> 01:13:18.180
Eccleston and Piper.

1535
01:13:18.359 --> 01:13:23.399
I think they're both magnificent together, just absolutely

1536
01:13:23.399 --> 01:13:24.539
perfect.

1537
01:13:24.600 --> 01:13:28.199
It was so exciting, so different from what we expected.

1538
01:13:28.260 --> 01:13:28.680
I think.

1539
01:13:28.739 --> 01:13:31.319
I'm so different from anything that had ever happened before but

1540
01:13:31.319 --> 01:13:32.220
just brilliant.

1541
01:13:32.279 --> 01:13:34.260
It feels so right.

1542
01:13:34.319 --> 01:13:38.939
And seeing Christopher, perhaps, in those final 5 episodes, I

1543
01:13:38.939 --> 01:13:40.619
think he really nails it at the end of that season.

1544
01:13:40.680 --> 01:13:47.819
And, and, you know, through Fate or whatever, having that one

1545
01:13:47.819 --> 01:13:51.720
season with him, I think in the end has served the show so well.

1546
01:13:52.140 --> 01:13:55.920
I was living in London at the time, and in the week that the 1st

1547
01:13:55.920 --> 01:14:00.119
episode went out, Rose, I walked into Waterloo Station, and there

1548
01:14:00.119 --> 01:14:03.779
at the end of the station, was a massive poster of Christopher

1549
01:14:03.779 --> 01:14:07.920
Eccleston and Billy Piper in character, looking back towards the

1550
01:14:07.920 --> 01:14:11.100
camera with the Tartar stores behind them, and the motto, I think

1551
01:14:11.100 --> 01:14:11.939
do you want to come with me?

1552
01:14:12.000 --> 01:14:15.539
And I stood there looking at it and I thought, these guys have

1553
01:14:15.539 --> 01:14:16.800
always inhabited these characters.

1554
01:14:16.859 --> 01:14:18.659
I'm here for it right now and I haven't seen it.

1555
01:14:18.720 --> 01:14:23.819
You can see Eccleston's delight in just how good a performer Billy

1556
01:14:23.819 --> 01:14:26.760
really is. right from the word go.

1557
01:14:26.819 --> 01:14:28.800
I think that gave him his impetus.

1558
01:14:28.859 --> 01:14:30.840
Piper and Tennant?

1559
01:14:30.899 --> 01:14:34.979
I mean, people have said before in this episode that they don't

1560
01:14:34.979 --> 01:14:38.699
know that they work all that well together, but I do think that

1561
01:14:38.699 --> 01:14:42.239
there is a reason that they're regarded as iconic.

1562
01:14:42.300 --> 01:14:46.079
And, you know, it's the relationship that people remember from

1563
01:14:46.079 --> 01:14:47.939
this era maybe more than any other.

1564
01:14:48.239 --> 01:14:52.319
I think there's something to be said for how much fun they're

1565
01:14:52.319 --> 01:14:52.619
having.

1566
01:14:52.680 --> 01:14:57.779
And I think that it's important in Doctor Who to show that.

1567
01:14:57.840 --> 01:15:01.020
Remember we were complaining about the Hinge Cliff era and the way

1568
01:15:01.020 --> 01:15:04.380
Sarah's being dragged through corridors full of dead bodies.

1569
01:15:04.439 --> 01:15:06.300
I remember ever complaining about the Hinchcliffe era.

1570
01:15:06.300 --> 01:15:09.539
Being pushed down the stairs and blinded.

1571
01:15:09.600 --> 01:15:10.140
Yeah, yeah.

1572
01:15:10.199 --> 01:15:14.819
So it's nice to see them having fun, even if they do seem rather

1573
01:15:14.819 --> 01:15:15.359
smug.

1574
01:15:15.479 --> 01:15:17.279
Yeah, and don't get me wrong on that.

1575
01:15:17.340 --> 01:15:21.180
I think that the chemistry between David and Billy is so amazing

1576
01:15:21.180 --> 01:15:23.880
that they are rightly iconic.

1577
01:15:23.939 --> 01:15:27.479
In fact, that's even referenced in the series in my favourite 2

1578
01:15:27.479 --> 01:15:31.319
parter of the era, where they are the stuff of legends at the

1579
01:15:31.319 --> 01:15:31.439
end.

1580
01:15:31.500 --> 01:15:32.340
They even say it on screen.

1581
01:15:32.399 --> 01:15:36.180
I think it's problem that the character doesn't necessarily work

1582
01:15:36.180 --> 01:15:39.359
as well with the 10th doctor as with the ninth, but they easily

1583
01:15:39.359 --> 01:15:40.020
overcome that.

1584
01:15:40.079 --> 01:15:42.539
Yeah, I think what you're saying there.

1585
01:15:42.600 --> 01:15:44.939
You're comparing it to the relationship the year before.

1586
01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:47.640
And if you didn't have that the year before, you wouldn't be

1587
01:15:47.640 --> 01:15:50.760
saying, oh, they're not as good because they are extremely all

1588
01:15:50.760 --> 01:15:51.239
together.

1589
01:15:52.500 --> 01:15:55.979
Freema and David.

1590
01:15:56.039 --> 01:15:59.699
I think it's really underrated and I think she's really underrated

1591
01:15:59.699 --> 01:16:02.819
and I really love that character so much more.

1592
01:16:02.880 --> 01:16:04.979
And when she leaves on her own terms.

1593
01:16:05.039 --> 01:16:07.920
I think it really says something to his character.

1594
01:16:07.979 --> 01:16:10.800
And I think they actually work a lot better than perhaps what even

1595
01:16:10.800 --> 01:16:12.060
David or people think.

1596
01:16:12.119 --> 01:16:12.960
Yeah.

1597
01:16:13.020 --> 01:16:15.960
I think the it's the best leaving scene of the era because it

1598
01:16:15.960 --> 01:16:18.960
isn't motivated by science fiction reasons.

1599
01:16:19.020 --> 01:16:21.359
And so there's a real truth to it.

1600
01:16:21.420 --> 01:16:22.199
I think that's great.

1601
01:16:22.260 --> 01:16:26.159
We've said before and, you know, everyone says, oh, if only she

1602
01:16:26.159 --> 01:16:28.079
hadn't been in love with a doctor or whatever.

1603
01:16:28.140 --> 01:16:32.520
But I think it's a forgivable mistake because, you know, Russell

1604
01:16:32.520 --> 01:16:36.659
very definitely wants there to be adults in the Tartars who are

1605
01:16:36.659 --> 01:16:40.020
attracted to one another and stuff like that and making the doctor

1606
01:16:40.020 --> 01:16:44.220
kind of a figure that you don't have those feelings for isn't what

1607
01:16:44.220 --> 01:16:45.840
this year is going for at all.

1608
01:16:45.899 --> 01:16:48.060
So I can forgive it.

1609
01:16:48.119 --> 01:16:48.779
But yeah.

1610
01:16:48.840 --> 01:16:50.159
And I think she's wonderful.

1611
01:16:50.220 --> 01:16:53.819
I wonder if it was Russell's idea to make us dislike the doctor a

1612
01:16:53.819 --> 01:16:54.119
little bit.

1613
01:16:54.180 --> 01:16:56.819
Because he's just so good at this.

1614
01:16:56.880 --> 01:17:01.500
Russell is also really dark and his humour is that kind of person

1615
01:17:01.500 --> 01:17:05.640
will get out there winkle picker and poke any situation.

1616
01:17:05.699 --> 01:17:09.479
I'm sure he's a terror to have at a party or in an intimate

1617
01:17:09.479 --> 01:17:13.260
friendship because he would just keep going that little bit to get

1618
01:17:13.260 --> 01:17:13.920
at your truth.

1619
01:17:13.979 --> 01:17:15.359
A lot of writers are like this.

1620
01:17:15.420 --> 01:17:19.560
There doesn't tend to be a lot of compunction for, I hope this

1621
01:17:19.560 --> 01:17:22.680
won't make you feel bad at the end, but I need to know how you

1622
01:17:22.680 --> 01:17:23.880
feel about this.

1623
01:17:23.939 --> 01:17:27.960
I can see him being you know, I can see him being quite a

1624
01:17:27.960 --> 01:17:31.199
difficult partner. in the home situation.

1625
01:17:31.260 --> 01:17:34.560
No, I think they quite deliberately did that too.

1626
01:17:34.680 --> 01:17:38.279
And when he saw when he saw David's reaction, which was not

1627
01:17:38.279 --> 01:17:42.180
dissimilar to Tom and Lou Jamison's thing.

1628
01:17:42.239 --> 01:17:43.859
I only thought, aha, I've got that again.

1629
01:17:43.920 --> 01:17:47.399
I'm going to work with this I think it was probably wicked enough

1630
01:17:47.399 --> 01:17:48.840
to actually exploit that.

1631
01:17:48.899 --> 01:17:52.199
It's not really very fair to Freema and, you know, my opinions on

1632
01:17:52.199 --> 01:17:58.319
this. ventured before, but I don't, yeah, I think it works out

1633
01:17:58.319 --> 01:18:01.380
very well and certainly Freema triumphs at the end of it.

1634
01:18:01.439 --> 01:18:04.739
That's a fantastic leaving scene that she has, probably one of the

1635
01:18:04.739 --> 01:18:05.460
best of all time.

1636
01:18:05.520 --> 01:18:07.380
Don't need you.

1637
01:18:07.439 --> 01:18:08.939
Yeah, yeah.

1638
01:18:09.000 --> 01:18:14.880
I think it's the human nature problem where human nature is really

1639
01:18:14.880 --> 01:18:17.760
great and you look at it while you're watching and you think, well

1640
01:18:17.760 --> 01:18:19.859
this might be the best of the season, except blink then comes

1641
01:18:19.859 --> 01:18:20.399
along.

1642
01:18:20.460 --> 01:18:24.359
I think Freema and David work really well and Martha's great

1643
01:18:24.359 --> 01:18:24.899
character.

1644
01:18:24.960 --> 01:18:28.439
However, they've already had a sample of how David works with

1645
01:18:28.439 --> 01:18:34.560
Catherine and that is just that little bit better, even though the

1646
01:18:34.560 --> 01:18:36.119
doctor and Freema is fantastic.

1647
01:18:36.180 --> 01:18:38.579
And so it's an embarrassment of riches.

1648
01:18:38.640 --> 01:18:41.460
So, of course, Catherine Tate and David Tennant.

1649
01:18:41.520 --> 01:18:42.479
I mean, stuff of legends.

1650
01:18:42.539 --> 01:18:43.260
Yeah.

1651
01:18:43.260 --> 01:18:44.340
It's that thing.

1652
01:18:44.399 --> 01:18:50.460
It's Colin Baker needs Evelyn so that he can't bully her because

1653
01:18:50.460 --> 01:18:51.720
she's immune to that.

1654
01:18:51.779 --> 01:18:56.159
You know, John Pertie needs Joe Grant because he's super

1655
01:18:56.159 --> 01:19:00.659
unlikeable until Joe comes along and then it's clear that he loves

1656
01:19:00.659 --> 01:19:02.699
her and so he must be a good guy.

1657
01:19:02.760 --> 01:19:06.779
What David Tennant needs is someone to make fun of him.

1658
01:19:06.840 --> 01:19:10.319
And she does such a great job of that.

1659
01:19:10.380 --> 01:19:13.079
And on top of that, to our absolute astonishment.

1660
01:19:13.140 --> 01:19:15.420
She's an incredibly good actor.

1661
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:19.979
And so she's able to sort of carry all the emotional sort of

1662
01:19:19.979 --> 01:19:20.340
things.

1663
01:19:20.340 --> 01:19:23.819
And I'd much rather watch Catherine crying in the TARDIS than

1664
01:19:23.819 --> 01:19:25.079
David Tennant, I think.

1665
01:19:25.619 --> 01:19:30.840
I think, um, it may be, we talked about it on the podcast, the

1666
01:19:30.840 --> 01:19:33.359
only time apart from William Russell and William Hartner, where we

1667
01:19:33.359 --> 01:19:34.079
had co-leads.

1668
01:19:34.140 --> 01:19:38.699
Catherine Tate is that strong and that well-known and famous that

1669
01:19:38.699 --> 01:19:42.060
she could come in and own the series and not take away from David

1670
01:19:42.060 --> 01:19:45.659
because they work really well together, but you could watch

1671
01:19:45.659 --> 01:19:47.640
Donahue quite easily.

1672
01:19:47.699 --> 01:19:50.699
I think Janet Fielding put up a good fight.

1673
01:19:59.760 --> 01:20:03.720
Do we have any Jenny Laird awards or Bonnie Langford nominations

1674
01:20:03.720 --> 01:20:04.500
for this era?

1675
01:20:04.560 --> 01:20:08.880
I mean, I give the money length it to Russell T. Davies because he

1676
01:20:08.880 --> 01:20:12.659
is that good and I just didn't necessarily see it all at that time

1677
01:20:12.659 --> 01:20:17.699
and his ability to showrun to write interesting characters from

1678
01:20:17.699 --> 01:20:21.840
you know, secretaries to companions, to be able to come up with

1679
01:20:21.840 --> 01:20:25.199
scripts, polish other people's scripts, to have the right, the

1680
01:20:25.199 --> 01:20:28.319
serendipity of events or the right casting.

1681
01:20:28.380 --> 01:20:29.460
It's just incredible.

1682
01:20:29.520 --> 01:20:32.939
No wonder he was so tired there at the end, but, you know, for 4

1683
01:20:32.939 --> 01:20:37.619
seasons, building and building and building and writing, just, yeah

1684
01:20:37.619 --> 01:20:38.039
amazing.

1685
01:20:38.100 --> 01:20:41.640
I give that to Julie and Phil as well.

1686
01:20:41.699 --> 01:20:43.979
Yeah, it's a triumvirate.

1687
01:20:44.039 --> 01:20:45.180
Yeah, I think so.

1688
01:20:45.300 --> 01:20:48.420
This is still my favourite era of the show.

1689
01:20:48.479 --> 01:20:52.439
Like absolutely of the entire show, including the classic series.

1690
01:20:52.500 --> 01:20:58.380
I don't think Doctor Who had been as good as this up until now, and

1691
01:20:58.380 --> 01:21:00.359
I don't think it's ever been as good as this again.

1692
01:21:00.420 --> 01:21:05.039
I think that we didn't deserve someone as skilled at television

1693
01:21:05.039 --> 01:21:09.840
writing and production as Russell and someone who knows and loves

1694
01:21:09.840 --> 01:21:14.340
Doctor Who and who is writing our memory of Doctor Who rather than

1695
01:21:14.340 --> 01:21:16.319
a direct continuation of Doctor Who.

1696
01:21:16.380 --> 01:21:19.619
He's writing a sort of Doctor Who, that's composed of all of the

1697
01:21:19.619 --> 01:21:22.140
things that we love and remember and all of the things that really

1698
01:21:22.140 --> 01:21:27.300
worked and I think it just came off magnificently.

1699
01:21:27.359 --> 01:21:30.180
So he gets my Bonnie Langford, I think.

1700
01:21:30.239 --> 01:21:34.800
You know, without these 45 years, we would not have the next 10

1701
01:21:34.800 --> 01:21:39.300
like if he had not been as half as talented, the show would not

1702
01:21:39.300 --> 01:21:42.720
have survived changes of showrunners. absolutely right.

1703
01:21:42.779 --> 01:21:47.159
Can I give a specific Bonnie Langford to Catherine Tate and the

1704
01:21:47.159 --> 01:21:47.819
casting of?

1705
01:21:47.819 --> 01:21:53.279
Yeah, because Catherine Tate was stunt casting to an extent, but

1706
01:21:53.279 --> 01:21:56.460
it proves that J&T had the right instinct because Bonnie Langford

1707
01:21:56.460 --> 01:21:59.340
back in the day was the same kind of stunt casting.

1708
01:21:59.460 --> 01:22:03.060
It was someone who had a profile, who was brought in to sort of be

1709
01:22:03.060 --> 01:22:05.819
popular with the masses, and it didn't quite come off because of

1710
01:22:05.819 --> 01:22:06.840
various things at the time.

1711
01:22:06.899 --> 01:22:10.619
We didn't have a script editor who was on board with that.

1712
01:22:10.680 --> 01:22:14.220
The program itself wasn't popular enough to sort of withstand that

1713
01:22:14.220 --> 01:22:16.380
external barrage.

1714
01:22:16.439 --> 01:22:20.399
But I think they were the same idea and Catherine Tate shows how

1715
01:22:20.399 --> 01:22:23.399
well it can work. and could have worked with Bonnie.

1716
01:22:23.460 --> 01:22:25.439
And, you know, maybe they could bring Bonnie back now because

1717
01:22:25.439 --> 01:22:27.180
she's such a proven dramatic actress.

1718
01:22:27.239 --> 01:22:28.920
I'm sure that she would have the same positive effect.

1719
01:22:28.979 --> 01:22:31.739
I missed having Lou Jamieson.

1720
01:22:31.800 --> 01:22:33.479
Louise Jamison in this series.

1721
01:22:33.539 --> 01:22:34.140
I really did.

1722
01:22:34.199 --> 01:22:36.479
I was thinking there were so many opportunities where she could

1723
01:22:36.479 --> 01:22:39.779
have appeared, not necessarily as Leila, would have liked her as

1724
01:22:39.779 --> 01:22:41.340
one of the mothers.

1725
01:22:41.399 --> 01:22:45.539
She could have been scribbling away behind Rastalon and then...

1726
01:22:45.600 --> 01:22:48.000
Well, actually, no, I do have a little quickie question.

1727
01:22:48.060 --> 01:22:52.859
What's the Claire Bloom character meant to be our Susan?

1728
01:22:52.920 --> 01:22:55.319
Was that actually written for Carol Anne?

1729
01:22:55.380 --> 01:23:00.359
I think Russell has said that he thinks it's the doctor's mother.

1730
01:23:00.420 --> 01:23:00.960
Yeah.

1731
01:23:00.960 --> 01:23:07.199
And he has deliberately just not said anything in order to leave

1732
01:23:07.199 --> 01:23:09.899
that open for people to play with, I think.

1733
01:23:09.960 --> 01:23:12.479
I think it's post-regeneration Engen.

1734
01:23:12.539 --> 01:23:15.119
Yay That's true.

1735
01:23:15.180 --> 01:23:16.859
It could be runsable for all we, you know.

1736
01:23:16.920 --> 01:23:19.260
All right, Snorg Mary avoid.

1737
01:23:19.319 --> 01:23:22.739
The Lord President, Josiah A. Smith, Sean Temple.

1738
01:23:23.159 --> 01:23:25.680
Oh, you'd have to Snog Sean.

1739
01:23:25.739 --> 01:23:28.920
PC. what's his name from the bill?

1740
01:23:29.579 --> 01:23:32.399
No, you'd have to marry Sean.

1741
01:23:32.460 --> 01:23:36.659
I mean, you know, like, Donna has terrible taste in Man Up until

1742
01:23:36.659 --> 01:23:38.939
this point.

1743
01:23:38.939 --> 01:23:42.420
But, um, he does seem very nice and he's good for her.

1744
01:23:42.479 --> 01:23:44.579
So I think that he would be a good one to marry.

1745
01:23:44.640 --> 01:23:49.439
Um, I would avoid the nasmiths because um, terrible.

1746
01:23:49.439 --> 01:23:51.600
Because they are...

1747
01:23:51.600 --> 01:23:53.340
Just not one, you'd have to snog the other.

1748
01:23:53.340 --> 01:23:55.140
All of them, you'd have to snog all of them.

1749
01:23:55.199 --> 01:24:01.680
And I would definitely snog Timothy Dalton because he's James

1750
01:24:01.680 --> 01:24:02.460
Bond.

1751
01:24:02.520 --> 01:24:04.199
James Bond.

1752
01:24:04.319 --> 01:24:06.180
But they'd left him with his fluffy morning hair.

1753
01:24:06.479 --> 01:24:08.640
There's nothing to him.

1754
01:24:08.699 --> 01:24:10.140
He's obviously turned up 5 minutes.

1755
01:24:10.199 --> 01:24:11.279
Remember, give me that.

1756
01:24:11.340 --> 01:24:12.600
Oh, okay, we're doing King Arthur.

1757
01:24:12.659 --> 01:24:13.619
That's the glove.

1758
01:24:13.680 --> 01:24:14.340
No love.

1759
01:24:14.399 --> 01:24:16.560
Just do whatever you'd usually do.

1760
01:24:16.619 --> 01:24:17.220
Oh, points.

1761
01:24:17.340 --> 01:24:18.720
Yes, that disappointing giggle.

1762
01:24:18.779 --> 01:24:19.140
There you go.

1763
01:24:19.199 --> 01:24:21.300
He'd shag the living daylights out here.

1764
01:24:21.359 --> 01:24:22.260
Hey.

1765
01:24:24.239 --> 01:24:30.539
So we're about to embark on a new era in series 5 as we sit here

1766
01:24:30.539 --> 01:24:31.020
right now.

1767
01:24:31.079 --> 01:24:36.600
What are your thoughts, expectations or what you hope to discover

1768
01:24:36.600 --> 01:24:39.539
in the next series or where do you sit with it?

1769
01:24:39.600 --> 01:24:43.020
I'm looking forward to Clair Foy as the new companion.

1770
01:24:43.079 --> 01:24:49.739
And some lovely sets and some really interesting badinage and

1771
01:24:49.739 --> 01:24:53.039
close and just to know how harmonious relationship in the Tartars

1772
01:24:53.039 --> 01:24:53.460
can actually be.

1773
01:24:53.520 --> 01:24:56.819
I'm looking forward to seeing Moffat fail.

1774
01:24:56.880 --> 01:25:01.619
And I say this, as in what we've seen so far, is Stephen coming in

1775
01:25:01.619 --> 01:25:05.640
and doing one or 2 episodes per season and giving us of his best

1776
01:25:05.640 --> 01:25:08.640
because he's got all the time in the world to do them and he's

1777
01:25:08.640 --> 01:25:10.859
coming in and doing one or 2 episodes per year.

1778
01:25:10.920 --> 01:25:12.180
He's giving of his best.

1779
01:25:12.239 --> 01:25:15.659
He doesn't have all the problems of running the show and dealing

1780
01:25:15.659 --> 01:25:16.500
with other writers.

1781
01:25:16.560 --> 01:25:20.039
I'm looking forward to seeing what he will do when he's placed

1782
01:25:20.039 --> 01:25:22.979
under pressure and what he will deliver.

1783
01:25:23.039 --> 01:25:26.220
And I think we'll get some episodes in the next few seasons, which

1784
01:25:26.220 --> 01:25:29.579
are not Moffat at his best, but which are stunningly interesting.

1785
01:25:29.640 --> 01:25:31.500
So not predicting any cracks.

1786
01:25:31.560 --> 01:25:36.060
I want to see an episode from him where he's not firing on all

1787
01:25:36.060 --> 01:25:38.939
cylinders and just how interesting that will be. expect your wish

1788
01:25:38.939 --> 01:25:39.659
will be granted.

1789
01:25:39.840 --> 01:25:44.880
It is the thing where Moffat is more ambitious and more

1790
01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:45.899
experimental.

1791
01:25:45.960 --> 01:25:51.239
Far more, you know, beyond the just original kind of feat of

1792
01:25:51.239 --> 01:25:52.260
bringing the show back.

1793
01:25:52.319 --> 01:25:54.000
Like now the show's back.

1794
01:25:54.060 --> 01:25:56.159
It's been going for 5 years.

1795
01:25:56.220 --> 01:26:02.279
He is much, much more ambitious and he has a completely different

1796
01:26:02.279 --> 01:26:02.880
take.

1797
01:26:02.880 --> 01:26:07.380
And I think his highs are higher and his lows are lower.

1798
01:26:07.439 --> 01:26:10.199
I wonder if that will feel like a panic response, though.

1799
01:26:10.260 --> 01:26:13.979
I think there's all sorts of panic responses over the next few

1800
01:26:13.979 --> 01:26:14.399
years.

1801
01:26:14.520 --> 01:26:17.279
I think that's very clearly a thing that happened too.

1802
01:26:17.399 --> 01:26:20.340
And so that stuff's going to be terribly interesting.

1803
01:26:20.399 --> 01:26:23.520
But I actually think that Moffat, Moffat's approach is very

1804
01:26:23.520 --> 01:26:26.460
interesting indeed, and I'm really looking forward to getting into

1805
01:26:26.460 --> 01:26:26.640
it.

1806
01:26:26.760 --> 01:26:31.319
For me, I guess with series 5, I always used to say, oh, series 4

1807
01:26:31.319 --> 01:26:36.239
and 5 are about the same, whether that proves to be in terms of my

1808
01:26:36.239 --> 01:26:37.920
enjoyment, the same thing.

1809
01:26:37.979 --> 01:26:42.479
I guess the focus I'll be looking at is Amy Pond and Karen

1810
01:26:42.479 --> 01:26:48.359
Gillan's performance, which I don't universally love, and I've

1811
01:26:48.359 --> 01:26:50.939
always loved Matt Smith and Arthur Darvel.

1812
01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:53.819
So I'm going to be really focussing on her next year to see what

1813
01:26:53.819 --> 01:26:56.699
she's delivering and how the character of Amy is written as well

1814
01:26:56.699 --> 01:26:57.600
throughout that series.

1815
01:26:57.659 --> 01:27:00.180
So that's where I'm at with things.

1816
01:27:04.020 --> 01:27:08.460
So we've reached the end, there's only but one snog Marrier void

1817
01:27:08.460 --> 01:27:12.479
left, and thanks to Colin Neal, we had a chat about this, and here

1818
01:27:12.479 --> 01:27:14.699
it go, Snog, Mary, avoid.

1819
01:27:14.760 --> 01:27:19.079
Jackie Tyler, Supreme Commander Servolan, Emperor Philippa

1820
01:27:19.079 --> 01:27:19.800
Giorgio.

1821
01:27:19.859 --> 01:27:20.399
Nathan.

1822
01:27:21.300 --> 01:27:26.399
So, well, Emperor Philippa Giorgio is, of course, my cousin-in-law

1823
01:27:26.399 --> 01:27:27.600
cousin Michelle.

1824
01:27:27.720 --> 01:27:31.680
And I think she is actually really pretty great.

1825
01:27:31.739 --> 01:27:37.319
But I'm just not a huge fan of her management style.

1826
01:27:37.380 --> 01:27:42.840
And, you know, it is possible to disappoint the supreme commander

1827
01:27:42.840 --> 01:27:43.500
and live.

1828
01:27:43.560 --> 01:27:47.819
I'm not quite so sure that it's possible to disappoint Philippa

1829
01:27:47.819 --> 01:27:48.899
Georgia in the same way.

1830
01:27:48.960 --> 01:27:50.340
So I'd avoid her.

1831
01:27:50.399 --> 01:27:55.739
I would snog the supreme commander because I have a feeling that

1832
01:27:55.739 --> 01:27:57.539
she would very much like me to do that again.

1833
01:27:59.100 --> 01:28:03.420
And so I would absolutely marry Jackie Tyler.

1834
01:28:03.479 --> 01:28:06.960
You could do much worse than Jackie Tyler as supreme commander of

1835
01:28:06.960 --> 01:28:08.460
the Terran Federation, couldn't you?

1836
01:28:08.520 --> 01:28:11.579
She'd have those outer planets in line.

1837
01:28:33.359 --> 01:28:36.600
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.

1838
01:28:36.720 --> 01:28:40.439
We'll be back in a few weeks' time with our coverage of series

1839
01:28:40.439 --> 01:28:45.000
five, starting with Matt Smith's first story as the doctor, the

1840
01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:46.199
11th hour.

1841
01:28:46.260 --> 01:28:49.979
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1842
01:28:49.979 --> 01:28:52.739
and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook

1843
01:28:52.739 --> 01:28:56.159
at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website

1844
01:28:56.159 --> 01:28:59.159
FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other

1845
01:28:59.159 --> 01:29:02.220
podcasts, Bondfinger, and Jody into Terror.

1846
01:29:02.340 --> 01:29:07.260
Until next time, remember that some people live more in 20 years

1847
01:29:07.260 --> 01:29:09.420
than others do in 80.

1848
01:29:09.600 --> 01:29:11.279
It's not the time that matters.

1849
01:29:11.340 --> 01:29:12.479
It's the person.

1850
01:29:12.539 --> 01:29:15.600
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1851
01:29:15.659 --> 01:29:17.159
See you soon.

1852
01:29:17.220 --> 01:29:17.640
Good night.

1853
01:29:17.699 --> 01:29:18.539
Good then.

1854
01:29:21.600 --> 01:29:25.560
That was Flight 3 Entirety, starring Todd Bilby, Nathan Bottomley

1855
01:29:25.560 --> 01:29:27.000
Peter Griffiths, and Richard Stone.

1856
01:29:27.000 --> 01:29:29.760
Themer ancient by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane

1857
01:29:29.760 --> 01:29:30.600
Alberg.

1858
01:29:30.659 --> 01:29:34.140
This episode, Technical Virtuosity, was recorded on the 27th of

1859
01:29:34.140 --> 01:29:37.500
December 2020, and released on the 8th of January 2021.

1860
01:29:40.680 --> 01:29:43.500
Russell D. Davis, Channel 4 drama.

1861
01:29:43.560 --> 01:29:46.619
It's a sin will be broadcast at the end of this month, and we're

1862
01:29:46.619 --> 01:29:49.140
awaiting it with a mixture of both excitement and dread.

1863
01:29:49.260 --> 01:29:51.779
Let's look after one another while we watch it.

1864
01:29:51.840 --> 01:29:52.199
Okay?

1865
01:29:55.260 --> 01:29:57.000
So I guess I'll do the thing.

1866
01:29:57.060 --> 01:29:58.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1867
01:29:58.979 --> 01:29:59.399
Yeah.

1868
01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:01.380
Yeah.

1869
01:30:01.380 --> 01:30:03.960
Closing statement?

1870
01:30:04.020 --> 01:30:06.420
I don't think I haven't done, yeah, and I think we've covered it

1871
01:30:06.420 --> 01:30:06.779
haven't we?

1872
01:30:06.840 --> 01:30:08.520
I can't think of anything we haven't said.

1873
01:30:08.579 --> 01:30:12.899
Over the last 60 episodes. 68 episodes.

1874
01:30:12.960 --> 01:30:16.380
And let's not forget. how great Camille Kudry is as Jackie

1875
01:30:16.380 --> 01:30:17.100
Tomlin.

1876
01:30:17.159 --> 01:30:18.600
Without her, we would not have...

1877
01:30:18.600 --> 01:30:19.739
That depended on Camille.

1878
01:30:19.800 --> 01:30:21.180
That was all right. was the right thing to do.

1879
01:30:21.239 --> 01:30:22.199
It's that thing.

1880
01:30:22.260 --> 01:30:25.199
It's that thing where, you know, if it wasn't for Barbara Wright.

1881
01:30:25.260 --> 01:30:27.539
We wouldn't have the show and I just think if it wasn't for Kamil

1882
01:30:27.539 --> 01:30:28.739
Kaduri, we wouldn't have the show.

1883
01:30:28.800 --> 01:30:31.439
Yes, I think that would be a tag.

1884
01:30:31.500 --> 01:30:33.779
I talked about family earlier, weren't we?

1885
01:30:33.840 --> 01:30:35.220
We don't really mean the other families.

1886
01:30:35.279 --> 01:30:36.000
We mean Jackie.

1887
01:30:36.060 --> 01:30:36.659
Yeah.

1888
01:30:36.720 --> 01:30:39.239
Oh, no, I'd like I mean, I mean the other family as well, but

1889
01:30:39.239 --> 01:30:40.380
Jackie is Jackie.

1890
01:30:40.439 --> 01:30:43.500
I still want I still want to have drinks with Francine.

1891
01:30:43.560 --> 01:30:46.380
She's in Bridgerton. you know about this?

1892
01:30:46.439 --> 01:30:51.119
Oh, so it's like a sort of crappy romance novel set in the regency

1893
01:30:51.119 --> 01:30:51.600
period.

1894
01:30:51.659 --> 01:30:53.460
It all just dropped on Netflix.

1895
01:30:53.520 --> 01:30:55.199
It's colourblind casting.

1896
01:30:55.560 --> 01:31:00.659
And so the male lead, the Duke is a very, very handsome black

1897
01:31:00.659 --> 01:31:01.079
man.

1898
01:31:01.079 --> 01:31:06.420
And a Joa is in it as well. as Lady Danford or something.

1899
01:31:06.479 --> 01:31:10.500
And my friend Robert has watched nearly the whole series since it

1900
01:31:10.500 --> 01:31:12.000
dropped 2 days ago.

1901
01:31:12.000 --> 01:31:14.039
And he just says she's magnificent in it.

1902
01:31:14.100 --> 01:31:15.960
So I'm quite excited.

1903
01:31:16.020 --> 01:31:18.539
Oh, I'm glad she got work since the last we saw her.

1904
01:31:18.600 --> 01:31:19.920
We're sheltering under a table.

1905
01:31:19.979 --> 01:31:22.439
She's in cucumber, remember?

1906
01:31:22.500 --> 01:31:25.079
Oh, she, oh, and she's great.

1907
01:31:25.199 --> 01:31:26.399
Again, sort of terrible.

1908
01:31:26.460 --> 01:31:28.079
She's in Julius Caesar, isn't she?

1909
01:31:28.079 --> 01:31:29.880
She did Julius Caesar in London.

1910
01:31:29.939 --> 01:31:30.779
Oh, okay.

1911
01:31:30.840 --> 01:31:31.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1912
01:31:31.560 --> 01:31:32.100
She's really good.

1913
01:31:32.159 --> 01:31:35.640
And let's not forget the videos that the Russell mums did during

1914
01:31:35.640 --> 01:31:39.659
lockdown and HR is so beautiful in them.

1915
01:31:39.720 --> 01:31:42.000
Oh, look them up. are so warm and gorgeous.

1916
01:31:42.060 --> 01:31:45.119
What was that just with Russell as a little COVID thing for us

1917
01:31:45.119 --> 01:31:45.420
all?

1918
01:31:45.479 --> 01:31:47.340
Yeah, I can't remember exactly what it was.

1919
01:31:47.399 --> 01:31:50.100
They sort of did like 2 or 3 minutes to camera just basically

1920
01:31:50.100 --> 01:31:53.399
telling people to keep their spirits up and we love you, Doctor

1921
01:31:53.399 --> 01:31:56.640
Who fans, and it is so heartwarming.

1922
01:31:57.000 --> 01:31:58.619
Nostril.

1923
01:31:58.680 --> 01:32:01.140
No, she's very cool. right.

1924
01:32:01.199 --> 01:32:03.180
We're actors, we need.

1925
01:32:03.300 --> 01:32:03.659
They do.

1926
01:32:04.800 --> 01:32:08.340
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.