WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 17:44:30 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.659 Hello, dear Lister, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety 2 00:00:39.659 --> 00:00:44.579 the only Doctor Who podcast whose words can burn stars and raise 3 00:00:44.579 --> 00:00:46.979 up empires and topple gods. 4 00:00:47.219 --> 00:00:49.320 Hello, sweetie. 5 00:00:49.380 --> 00:00:50.340 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:51.299 I'm James. 7 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:52.079 I'm Peter. 8 00:00:52.140 --> 00:00:52.979 And I'm Simon. 9 00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:57.240 Well, it's Matt Smith's 1st day on the job, and he's already 10 00:00:57.240 --> 00:01:01.500 dealing with the Anglican Church, his mother-in-law, Mrs. Doctor 11 00:01:01.500 --> 00:01:04.859 from the Future, and being chased upstairs by a bunch of angry 12 00:01:04.859 --> 00:01:05.879 statues. 13 00:01:05.939 --> 00:01:10.859 Let's see how he gets on as we discuss the time of angels. 14 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:28.799 So, it turns out this is the first thing that Matt Smith ever 15 00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:29.340 shoots. 16 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:31.500 How do you think he does, Simon? 17 00:01:31.560 --> 00:01:36.840 I think he does absolutely spectacularly, I have to say, there's 18 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:41.340 an absolute beauty in his performance, particularly compared to 19 00:01:41.340 --> 00:01:43.140 the previous doctor in my humble view. 20 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:47.760 I was so relieved when I started seeing his performance. 21 00:01:47.819 --> 00:01:49.439 There's a lightness of touch. 22 00:01:49.500 --> 00:01:52.379 He dances around the set. 23 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:55.379 His feet are sometimes barely touching the ground. 24 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:59.819 He has the ability to rattle off loads of dialogue that change 25 00:01:59.819 --> 00:02:02.939 subject in the middle of sentences, and yet it all makes sense. 26 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:04.980 He's just absolutely spectacular. 27 00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:07.079 And if this is, I did not know this was actually the 1st thing 28 00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:07.620 that was shot. 29 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:10.979 And so unlike some of the other doctors that, you know, shoot out 30 00:02:10.979 --> 00:02:11.879 of order at the beginning. 31 00:02:11.939 --> 00:02:13.500 I think he gets it right from the get go. 32 00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:15.300 It's amazing, isn't it? 33 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:20.039 Because they've clearly recorded this first. and then what does he 34 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:22.500 do between this and the 11th hour? 35 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:26.340 There's another block, which is the Beast Below and Victory of the 36 00:02:26.340 --> 00:02:26.699 Daleks. 37 00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:30.180 So they do what they do with Peter Davidson and get him to shoot a 38 00:02:30.180 --> 00:02:34.680 few episodes before he does his, you know, 1st episode, but he 39 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:36.060 just nails it instantly. 40 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:41.400 By the time he recorded Time of Angels, he had watched every 41 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:43.560 episode of the new series up to that date. 42 00:02:43.620 --> 00:02:45.599 Plus 2 of the Cybermen. 43 00:02:45.659 --> 00:02:49.560 And it's a bit of a tomb of the side men informed performance in a 44 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:54.840 way because what Troughton does is he delivers his lines kind of 45 00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:57.360 very thoughtfully he very rarely gets angry. 46 00:02:57.419 --> 00:03:02.699 He does steal the scenes sometimes, but he's also happy to kind of 47 00:03:02.699 --> 00:03:06.599 downplay things and it is a really refreshing change. 48 00:03:06.659 --> 00:03:14.460 And I just think the way that, You know, here, he is, he's doing 49 00:03:14.460 --> 00:03:17.400 something that his doctor hasn't done before, sort of 50 00:03:17.400 --> 00:03:22.439 chronologically, which is, um, he's confronted almost immediately 51 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:24.000 by River Song. 52 00:03:24.060 --> 00:03:28.979 And Riversong does this thing, I think, which is heaps like the 53 00:03:28.979 --> 00:03:34.620 1st Romana, in that she's more competent than him, and she's in 54 00:03:34.620 --> 00:03:35.400 charge. 55 00:03:35.460 --> 00:03:40.620 And so he gets to be resentful, you know, and on the back foot. 56 00:03:40.620 --> 00:03:45.479 And he plays it so well because he's alternately amused by her and 57 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:47.879 irritated by her in this sort of childish way. 58 00:03:47.939 --> 00:03:50.699 Yes, but the irritation never gets too much, does it? 59 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:52.919 It's never childish. 60 00:03:52.979 --> 00:03:56.939 He is a little bit childish, though, a little bit petulant. 61 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:58.560 Remember the blue boringers? 62 00:03:58.620 --> 00:04:02.639 like she switches on the stabilisers so that the camera stops 63 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:03.060 shaking? 64 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:06.599 There's wonderful moment in the TARDIS there, where he sits down 65 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:09.120 having got a bit irritated and just breaks into a smile. 66 00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:11.819 Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking of. 67 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:15.780 I think he's quite lucky to have had Alex Kingston in his 1st 68 00:04:15.780 --> 00:04:18.779 story and in fact, in the 1st scenes that he shoots, because they 69 00:04:18.779 --> 00:04:22.740 were the ones on the beach, um, with Amy and River, because I 70 00:04:22.740 --> 00:04:26.339 think she brings out that slightly naughty schoolboy in the 71 00:04:26.339 --> 00:04:26.759 performance. 72 00:04:26.819 --> 00:04:30.600 And I think that informs his performance for the rest of his run 73 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:32.339 and it was perfect, really. 74 00:04:32.399 --> 00:04:36.660 Because he does have a sort of posh schoolboy accent, doesn't he? 75 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:38.639 He's terribly young and a little bit posh. 76 00:04:38.699 --> 00:04:42.180 And so he does sound like that and because he's ridiculously 77 00:04:42.180 --> 00:04:42.540 young. 78 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:44.579 He sort of looks like that as well. 79 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:48.240 Well, Simon said about a lightness of touch, I think, is right 80 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:52.439 because he does overplay some scenes in the best possible way. 81 00:04:52.500 --> 00:04:55.740 And then he underplays often the very next line. 82 00:04:55.800 --> 00:04:59.040 And so it's an idiosyncratic performance, but that's not a bad 83 00:04:59.040 --> 00:04:59.279 thing. 84 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:01.019 It's perfectly judged. 85 00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:04.079 Yes, it's idiosyncratic, but not forced. 86 00:05:04.139 --> 00:05:08.699 It feels like, I mean, there's obviously a lot of thought and 87 00:05:08.699 --> 00:05:10.500 effort and planning that's gone into it. 88 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:14.160 And yet it just feels like it spontaneously happens and that is, I 89 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:15.660 think, the sign of a very good actor. 90 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:21.240 I put it this way, the other day, where he looks like he's 91 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:27.660 thinking about what to say very frequently and you can see him as 92 00:05:27.660 --> 00:05:31.079 an actor, not only thinking about what to do with the line, but it 93 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:34.139 just seems like he's coming up with these words rather than just 94 00:05:34.139 --> 00:05:34.860 reciting them. 95 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:35.879 Yes. 96 00:05:35.939 --> 00:05:38.819 And that's one of the things that they, they try and teach you in 97 00:05:38.819 --> 00:05:42.360 acting school is, is to think about what the character is thinking 98 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:45.600 as they're about to say the line so that it's not, the character's 99 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:46.079 not thinking. 100 00:05:46.139 --> 00:05:49.079 I've got this line to say in a millisecond. 101 00:05:49.139 --> 00:05:50.879 They're thinking, oh, I'm frightened. 102 00:05:50.939 --> 00:05:52.379 What are we going to do? 103 00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:54.779 And then the line comes out as a result of that emotion. 104 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:55.800 And so you're right. 105 00:05:55.860 --> 00:05:59.339 Yeah, I think, you know, David Tennant's performance is very 106 00:05:59.339 --> 00:06:04.199 presentational, you know, he is interested in conveying something 107 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:07.319 to an audience and that's a sort of slightly old-fashioned in a 108 00:06:07.319 --> 00:06:09.480 sort of rather British way of acting. 109 00:06:09.540 --> 00:06:14.220 Do you think that's because his stage actor, whereas Matt Smith 110 00:06:14.220 --> 00:06:16.560 isn't so much. 111 00:06:16.620 --> 00:06:21.420 That's possible because that sort of subtlety is not quite as 112 00:06:21.420 --> 00:06:23.639 suited for the stage as it is for the screen. 113 00:06:23.699 --> 00:06:25.379 That's absolutely a possibility. 114 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:28.560 But I also think that Tennant was sort of brought up on Doctor Who 115 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:31.980 and that was kind of the style of acting sort of generally. 116 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:35.939 Well, that's why acting has changed so much in the last 4 decades 117 00:06:35.939 --> 00:06:40.800 is because you've lost that background of actors being theatre 118 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:41.879 trained. 119 00:06:41.939 --> 00:06:44.519 And so they don't come on to television and give a performance. 120 00:06:44.579 --> 00:06:47.100 They're more trained in the nuances of working with the camera. 121 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:47.639 Yeah. 122 00:06:47.699 --> 00:06:49.500 I think it's more than that. 123 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:52.620 I agree with that, that idea that it is a different style of 124 00:06:52.620 --> 00:06:55.500 acting that that tenant's doing versus what Smith's doing. 125 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:56.939 But I hate to say it. 126 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.959 I just think that tenant's not as good as an actor. 127 00:07:01.019 --> 00:07:04.319 It's not because he's going for a different way of acting. 128 00:07:04.379 --> 00:07:09.060 It's just because I think he can't inhabit the character or Tom or 129 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:12.060 some of the other many of the other doctors that we've had. 130 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:15.720 The tenant performance feels like a performance. 131 00:07:15.779 --> 00:07:17.939 I think that's why I don't like it. 132 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:21.720 Yeah, I mean, I think there's an in-story reason for it feeling 133 00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:24.420 like a performance because both of Russell's doctors, and I may 134 00:07:24.420 --> 00:07:25.139 have said this before. 135 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:29.459 Both of Russell's doctors are a lot like Russell in that they are 136 00:07:29.459 --> 00:07:33.360 externally very jolly and everything's brilliant or marvellous or 137 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:37.680 wonderful, but there's a real kind of darkness and cynicism deep 138 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:38.399 underneath. 139 00:07:38.459 --> 00:07:41.459 And we've seen the doctor drop that mask occasionally. 140 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:43.620 So the tenant doctor is a performance. 141 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:49.019 Smith's doctor is more like Moffat in that he's the smartest 142 00:07:49.019 --> 00:07:49.860 person in the room. 143 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:52.560 He's sort of funny and silly. 144 00:07:52.620 --> 00:07:53.759 He's a man child. 145 00:07:53.819 --> 00:07:55.680 Surrounded by strong women. 146 00:07:55.740 --> 00:07:57.240 Yeah, and especially awkward. 147 00:07:57.300 --> 00:08:01.259 Yeah, socially awkward and a bit of a bastard as well. 148 00:08:01.379 --> 00:08:06.600 And so the performances is much realer, I think. 149 00:08:18.899 --> 00:08:24.720 We talked about River Song, and I have a feeling that she is a 150 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:29.279 sort of controversial character, that she has a fairly mixed 151 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:31.259 reception among Doctor Who fans? 152 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:32.940 I wasn't aware of that. 153 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:36.539 Um, I think she's a very popular part of the canon. 154 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:40.799 There might be a fairly minority romp who don't like her, but I 155 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:43.740 think that's because she's quite a flamboyant character. 156 00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:49.379 And so if you're very gun to use to use your vernacular, Nathan. 157 00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:51.539 You might not appreciate what she brings to the series. 158 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:56.580 And I think Moffat might have seen Alex Kingston's performance in 159 00:08:56.580 --> 00:09:00.779 Silence Library and been informed by that because she is written 160 00:09:00.779 --> 00:09:04.620 quite differently in Time of Angels from how she is in the Library 161 00:09:04.620 --> 00:09:05.279 2 partter. 162 00:09:05.340 --> 00:09:09.179 So things like hello, sweetie, which is the message that the 163 00:09:09.179 --> 00:09:12.240 doctor gets on the psychic paper in silence in the library now 164 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:15.240 here hardens into the 1st thing that she always says. 165 00:09:15.299 --> 00:09:19.500 And later this season, she will also send the hello sweetie 166 00:09:19.500 --> 00:09:22.919 message to the doctor in a sort of weird archeological way. 167 00:09:22.980 --> 00:09:26.639 And there's an effort to make her glamorous and fabulous. 168 00:09:26.700 --> 00:09:29.399 So, you know, her very 1st entrance with that long dress and the 169 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:31.679 impossibly skyscraper heels and everything. 170 00:09:31.740 --> 00:09:33.600 I mean, she's made to be iconic now. 171 00:09:33.659 --> 00:09:38.879 There's that wonderful shot of her using the gun as a sort of 172 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:43.440 oxyacetylene torch to carve the thing into the home box, and it's 173 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:47.820 just a shot of the corner of her fabulous sunglasses with the 174 00:09:47.820 --> 00:09:49.379 sparks reflected in them. 175 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:51.840 Yeah, no, she's it's spectacular. 176 00:09:51.899 --> 00:09:55.019 I mean, I'm not aware of anyone who, you know, a group that 177 00:09:55.019 --> 00:09:57.840 actively doesn't, doesn't like her or doesn't like the character. 178 00:09:57.899 --> 00:10:00.480 Maybe it's because it's kind of like, is this supposed to have 179 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:02.039 been Bernice Summerfield, but not. 180 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:04.440 Is that anything to do with it? 181 00:10:04.500 --> 00:10:07.080 Well, there may be that, but I do think that she is different from 182 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:07.679 Bernice. 183 00:10:07.740 --> 00:10:11.519 Bernice is a lot more kind of down to earth and stuff, whereas she 184 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:14.100 is sort of ridiculously flamboyant. 185 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:18.120 And I think that opening, seeing that fabulous heist scene, which 186 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:22.379 eventually ends up, you know, that it's a very moffity thing to 187 00:10:22.379 --> 00:10:26.399 tell the story out of order or to have 2 time streams and a switch 188 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:27.000 between them. 189 00:10:27.059 --> 00:10:29.399 But I do think it's absolutely marvellous. 190 00:10:29.460 --> 00:10:33.960 That she's so confident that all she needs to do is leave the 191 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:36.960 doctor a message at some point in his time stream. 192 00:10:37.019 --> 00:10:38.820 He'll come and rescue her. 193 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:41.340 And it's it's so tremendous. 194 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:44.220 And there's even a point where the doctor says something like, you 195 00:10:44.220 --> 00:10:48.480 know, I'm not going to be there to just turn up every... 196 00:10:48.539 --> 00:10:50.519 Yeah, it's sweet that you think that. 197 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:52.440 But you are. 198 00:10:52.500 --> 00:10:53.279 It's wonderful. 199 00:10:53.399 --> 00:10:55.019 Yeah, it's because I love that. 200 00:10:55.500 --> 00:10:59.340 I think the teaser on this episode is one of the best ever in its 201 00:10:59.340 --> 00:11:02.759 cleverness and just kind of like, you know, a little vignette all 202 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:04.200 by itself, which you can enjoy. 203 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:08.399 But I interviewed Jamie Matheson, who wrote oxygen and various 204 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:09.120 other episodes. 205 00:11:09.179 --> 00:11:13.740 And he said that Moffat, who is always examining his past work and 206 00:11:13.740 --> 00:11:18.179 kind of things like that. um, specifically referenced this scene 207 00:11:18.179 --> 00:11:22.320 with River song floating out into space when he said to Jamie, look 208 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:23.700 I want to make space dangerous skin. 209 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:24.840 I dont want any more scenes like that. 210 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:28.500 But I mean, I don't know. 211 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:31.080 You know, Moffat's always kind of 2nd guessing himself and going 212 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:33.960 back and deciding that the things that he's done in the past for a 213 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:37.320 mistake and we'll see more of that next week. then he'll redo than 214 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:38.039 the next year. 215 00:11:38.100 --> 00:11:42.120 But I mean, the amount of fun in that scene is just unbelievably 216 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:42.539 great. 217 00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:44.279 And it's the perfect place for it. 218 00:11:44.340 --> 00:11:47.399 But going back to the whole structure of that cold open sequence. 219 00:11:47.460 --> 00:11:51.419 It's so reminiscent of that Paul Cornell New Adventures sort of 220 00:11:51.419 --> 00:11:54.299 era where the doctor has already planted all these things, not 221 00:11:54.299 --> 00:11:57.120 sorry, we'll plant them in his future so that they're there for 222 00:11:57.120 --> 00:11:57.779 him in the past. 223 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:00.000 It starts with Battlefield and it's a great reminder of that. 224 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:02.940 That's what I was thinking when I was watching that episode was 225 00:12:02.940 --> 00:12:06.480 it's basically the new Adventures 7th doctor. 226 00:12:06.539 --> 00:12:11.340 And the great thing is that she is in many ways better at being 227 00:12:11.340 --> 00:12:13.799 the doctor than the doctor, which is so much fun. 228 00:12:13.860 --> 00:12:14.879 What's that, Romana? 229 00:12:14.940 --> 00:12:16.320 Yeah, yeah, well, that's exactly it. 230 00:12:16.379 --> 00:12:20.759 I love the joke and I've heard people complain about this joke as 231 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:21.000 well. 232 00:12:21.059 --> 00:12:24.120 That the reason the TARDIS makes the wheeze and groaning noise 233 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:27.779 which Matt Smith does a brilliant imitation of while looking 234 00:12:27.779 --> 00:12:31.679 slightly embarrassed about doing it, is because he leaves the 235 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:34.500 brakes on and she manages to materialise without it. 236 00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:37.379 Moffatt later claimed that she was just pulling his leg. 237 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:40.980 Well, isn't that an exact reference back to the pirate planet 238 00:12:40.980 --> 00:12:44.039 where Romana does exactly the same thing and lands the Tartars 239 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:45.179 perfectly without a bump? 240 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:46.679 Yeah, yeah, that's right. 241 00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:47.279 That's right. 242 00:12:47.340 --> 00:12:48.240 It's wonderful. 243 00:12:48.299 --> 00:12:51.179 I mean, you know, uh, the master's hardest does that as well. 244 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.580 So I'm not sure that Joker's Canon. 245 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:57.299 But I mean, basically, I am completely on board with throwing out 246 00:12:57.299 --> 00:13:01.019 as much continuity as we need to throw out in order to have a 247 00:13:01.019 --> 00:13:02.879 really funny line like that. 248 00:13:02.940 --> 00:13:05.340 But don't you think it's also plausible that the master would be 249 00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:07.679 making the same mistakes about buying the status that the doctor 250 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:08.100 does? 251 00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:09.899 He was a man, after all. 252 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:27.299 So let's talk about the structure of the story, because I do think 253 00:13:27.299 --> 00:13:30.899 it's actually surprisingly straightforward for a Moffat script. 254 00:13:31.019 --> 00:13:36.059 Yes, but I think that's why it's successful because the plot is 255 00:13:36.059 --> 00:13:39.659 relatively straightforward, but it's got all of these layers 256 00:13:39.659 --> 00:13:41.940 sitting on top of that simplicity. 257 00:13:41.940 --> 00:13:45.659 And I think that's why you have a successful episode. 258 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:47.879 Yeah, so you've just got basically a chase. 259 00:13:47.940 --> 00:13:50.159 You know, we discover... 260 00:13:50.220 --> 00:13:53.759 Yeah, well, we're heading up to the Byzantium because we think 261 00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:56.279 that there's an angel in there or whatever. 262 00:13:56.340 --> 00:13:57.120 Lord of the Rings, really. 263 00:13:57.179 --> 00:13:57.840 Yeah, yeah. 264 00:13:57.899 --> 00:14:00.539 And we've got a character party, some of whom get sort of picked 265 00:14:00.539 --> 00:14:01.679 off one by one. 266 00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:04.860 So it is super, super straightforward, but it's exactly what you 267 00:14:04.860 --> 00:14:05.159 said. 268 00:14:05.220 --> 00:14:10.860 There's enough going on as well at the same time that it still 269 00:14:10.860 --> 00:14:12.779 seems sort of smart and interesting. 270 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:16.679 And narratively, it moves from sort of set piece to set piece or 271 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:19.019 what we were talking about the other day, vignette to vignette. 272 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:22.379 And they're all just strung together into this wonderfully 273 00:14:22.379 --> 00:14:23.220 cohesive hole. 274 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:28.379 If I can add two, it's the things that are added are all relevant 275 00:14:28.379 --> 00:14:29.340 to what they're doing. 276 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:32.879 It's not like there have been 3 other random things that have been 277 00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:35.940 thrown into the episode just to make it more exciting and fill it 278 00:14:35.940 --> 00:14:36.960 with incident and stuff. 279 00:14:37.019 --> 00:14:41.700 It's all, it's all built from that base and that's... 280 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:44.639 It all drives the plot forward and it's all relevant to either the 281 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:47.460 characters relationships with each other with rivers, bits and 282 00:14:47.460 --> 00:14:50.399 pieces gradually becoming more known as to who she is and so on. 283 00:14:50.460 --> 00:14:53.159 Or, you know, bits to do with the Byzantium and so on. 284 00:14:53.220 --> 00:14:54.059 It all builds from that. 285 00:14:54.179 --> 00:14:56.879 It's all got to do with time, hasn't it? 286 00:14:56.940 --> 00:15:01.019 And I mean that, as in how much work you can get done in a 287 00:15:01.019 --> 00:15:04.980 specific period, because I would say that for this 2 parter 288 00:15:04.980 --> 00:15:09.600 Stephen Mothat had the most time he's ever had to write a script 289 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:13.080 and put it together, and it shows, there's nothing missing 290 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:15.720 everything links together, It's perfectly structured. 291 00:15:15.779 --> 00:15:19.980 And so, um, you know, if you've got the time, he can deliver the 292 00:15:19.980 --> 00:15:20.759 goods 100%. 293 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:24.720 This is the 1st script he writes for his season, isn't it? 294 00:15:24.779 --> 00:15:25.080 Yes. 295 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:25.379 Yeah. 296 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:30.600 So this is the sort of thing that we got in in series one where 297 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:33.600 everyone was sort of bringing the idea that they'd had kind of 298 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:36.899 slowly simmering for... 299 00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:41.279 And and, you know, like we just end up with some really incredible 300 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:41.700 things. 301 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:46.080 And so here, because the announcement is made quite early that 302 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:50.700 Moffat's taking over, he has a whole season, I think, that 303 00:15:50.700 --> 00:15:55.019 operates a lot like series one in that we're trying something 304 00:15:55.019 --> 00:15:55.500 new. 305 00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:57.360 We don't know whether it will work. 306 00:15:57.419 --> 00:16:00.240 We make sure that we bring our A game. 307 00:16:00.299 --> 00:16:06.779 And this, you know, is such a departure from the early season 2 308 00:16:06.779 --> 00:16:07.860 parties. 309 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:12.960 We've already talked about how Moffatt adopts Russell's structure 310 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:18.059 for the season, you know, with the opening on Earth, past, future 311 00:16:18.059 --> 00:16:23.100 early season 2 parter, late season 2 parter, 2 part finale, all of 312 00:16:23.100 --> 00:16:23.700 that is all there. 313 00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:28.500 But compare this to all of the previous early 2 partters, which 314 00:16:28.500 --> 00:16:33.899 tended to be lighter, that often featured a returning monster, that 315 00:16:33.899 --> 00:16:36.360 sometimes had a sort of Sarah Jane vibe. 316 00:16:36.419 --> 00:16:40.980 This episode feels like should be a sort of episode 7 or eight. 317 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:45.600 Yeah, or like the 9 and 10, you know, like... 318 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:48.360 Yes, it's the impossible planet slot rather than the, you know 319 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:49.620 rise of the Sidemen slot. 320 00:16:49.740 --> 00:16:56.159 Especially because of the amount of continuing plot arc that is in 321 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:58.259 that 2nd episode, but we'll get to that next week. 322 00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:00.539 It's basically the 2 parter where they turn the lights off. 323 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:02.460 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 324 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:06.299 So the that late season 2 part is always a bit darker. 325 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:08.339 Human nature and... 326 00:17:08.339 --> 00:17:09.660 And Moffatt wrote 2 of those. 327 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:14.519 You know, like Moffat wrote the empty child and silence in the 328 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:17.460 library, you know, and this, I think, is a lot like that. 329 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:21.059 It does feature a very popular monster returning, obviously. 330 00:17:21.299 --> 00:17:26.099 But it is reflective of his slightly more serious, slightly more 331 00:17:26.099 --> 00:17:28.920 sombre, slightly darker iteration of the show. 332 00:17:28.980 --> 00:17:31.079 You get that right from the 11th hour. 333 00:17:31.140 --> 00:17:32.759 Yes, there are funny bits. 334 00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:33.359 It's light. 335 00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:37.380 It's got its moments, but there's, there's something about it 336 00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:41.460 where it's all just, the silliness level is just dialled down just 337 00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:45.839 enough, I think, and except that I go back and look at the notes 338 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:49.079 that I wrote when I was watching this, and basically I'm just 339 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:52.799 copying down all the most hilarious lines from the dialogue 340 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:57.779 because he's a sitcom writer, and it's often really laugh out loud 341 00:17:57.779 --> 00:17:58.200 funny. 342 00:17:58.259 --> 00:18:01.140 It is, but it's not the lines themselves. 343 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:02.339 It's how they're delivered. 344 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:06.299 And I think they're actually funnier in something like this, those 345 00:18:06.299 --> 00:18:10.200 funny lines, then they are in the Rustically Davies era, because 346 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:13.319 in the RTD era, it's all overplayed. 347 00:18:13.380 --> 00:18:15.660 Whereas here they're just thrown away. 348 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:19.680 All those fabulously funny lines, that river and the doctor are 349 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:22.559 saying to each other, they just disappear in a fraction of a 350 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:22.799 second. 351 00:18:22.859 --> 00:18:24.059 And that's what makes them so brilliant. 352 00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:29.160 I think, though, that Moffatt is willing to sacrifice a bit of 353 00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:35.400 realism in order to come up with just a really superb, funny sort 354 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:36.539 of sitcom line. 355 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:41.400 And I think that I'm absolutely on board with that as a sort of 356 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:41.940 priority. 357 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:46.019 I agree with both of you, actually, because I think it's actually 358 00:18:46.019 --> 00:18:47.160 quite silly in places. 359 00:18:47.220 --> 00:18:49.740 But the silliness is limited to the doctor. 360 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:53.640 And so it's the Hinchcliffe template where the situations around 361 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:58.859 are quite serious and threatening, but the doctor barrels his way 362 00:18:58.859 --> 00:19:00.539 through it being quite silly sometimes. 363 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:04.799 Okay, so let me move to a topic where I contradict you. which is 364 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:08.579 that line verger, how we're doing with those explosives. 365 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:14.700 So you have the army, but they're the Anglican church for some 366 00:19:14.700 --> 00:19:15.299 reason. 367 00:19:15.539 --> 00:19:17.460 What do you think is happening there? 368 00:19:17.940 --> 00:19:22.680 It's just a choice to do something interesting and make it kind of 369 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:23.819 work and consistent. 370 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:27.420 But also it's a joke character, if you want to put it that way 371 00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:28.619 played extremely straight. 372 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:29.579 Yes, exactly. 373 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:33.839 But do you think that's also commentary on the power and corrupt 374 00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:36.059 nature of religion over time? 375 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:39.059 I think it probably has its origins there. 376 00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:42.900 I think Russell is much more obviously opposed to religion. and 377 00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:46.680 there's things like it being listed among the weapons that are 378 00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:51.539 forbidden on platform one and the adherence of the repeated meme 379 00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:55.140 which meant something quite different in 2005 than it would now. 380 00:19:55.200 --> 00:20:00.900 But there is that moment where they talk about applands, the 2 381 00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:03.960 headed applands getting into relationships and how the church 382 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.380 outlawed it or looked down on it. 383 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:10.859 And, you know, you have the doctor say, oh, typical church and 384 00:20:10.859 --> 00:20:14.819 Father Octavian gets kind of offended and huffy about it. 385 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.200 And I think we get more of that later next year because this 386 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.019 church will be back and we'll continue to be a feature of the 387 00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:22.799 Moffat era. 388 00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:25.259 But then you get that fabulous line about the divorces being 389 00:20:25.259 --> 00:20:26.039 really messy. 390 00:20:27.059 --> 00:20:30.900 I just saw it as a sort of a reference to the fact that, you know 391 00:20:30.900 --> 00:20:35.099 back in the Middle Ages. popes and churches and bishops and things 392 00:20:35.099 --> 00:20:39.660 had standing armies in the same way that lords and counts and 393 00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:41.039 whatnot did in kings. 394 00:20:41.099 --> 00:20:43.319 I thought it was just a sort of a, oh, it all comes around again 395 00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:45.599 and, you know, like the 2nd Roman Empire. 396 00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:46.380 Exactly. 397 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:47.099 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 398 00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:48.240 Or the crusades. 399 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:50.400 But it does make it more interesting. 400 00:20:50.460 --> 00:20:52.740 Like, you could have just had army people. 401 00:20:52.859 --> 00:20:57.180 And there's even a sort of wonderful visual moment where one of 402 00:20:57.180 --> 00:20:58.500 the soldiers turns. 403 00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:01.740 He's sort of half looking at the camera and he looks exactly like 404 00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:04.859 Dwayne Hicks does in the dropship in aliens. 405 00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:09.299 Like, it cannot not be a direct visual reference to that. 406 00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:12.900 Well, it's interesting you say that because when Moffatt was 407 00:21:12.900 --> 00:21:19.079 writing this, his idea for this story was aliens to alien this to 408 00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:19.380 blink. 409 00:21:19.500 --> 00:21:24.900 Yeah, because the other thing that he does is what aliens does 410 00:21:24.900 --> 00:21:31.380 which is we actually learn more interesting new things about the 411 00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:31.980 angels. 412 00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:34.859 And it moves it into a different genre. 413 00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:36.599 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 414 00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:40.619 So they are functionally a lot like the Marines and aliens, aren't 415 00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:40.799 they? 416 00:21:40.859 --> 00:21:45.420 But I think making them the church is a Doctor Who thing to do. 417 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:50.039 Like it's a mashup and it gives us those sort of hilarious lines 418 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:53.339 about verges and explosives. 419 00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:57.000 It's interesting because that's oft quoted what Moffat says about 420 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:00.960 Blink being alien and this 2 part of being aliens, but it's also 421 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:05.339 the Empire Strikes Back versus Star Wars, because it takes that 422 00:22:05.339 --> 00:22:09.599 sort of wonderful source material, and it deepens it and darkens 423 00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:11.700 it and kind of adds mythology to it. 424 00:22:11.819 --> 00:22:16.559 I think the most interesting thing he does is he makes the angels 425 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:20.220 even more kind of metaphysical. 426 00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:22.140 So they were always impossible, weren't they? 427 00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:27.240 They were, and they were designed to fit into a particular plot. 428 00:22:27.299 --> 00:22:31.980 So blink is a puzzle box, and it requires the angels to have 429 00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:34.859 certain characteristics just to get the plot to work. 430 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:38.099 And in particular, it's the, you know, they send you back in time 431 00:22:38.099 --> 00:22:40.500 and feed off your time energy and stuff like that. 432 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:44.640 Here, he's got a completely different plot, and he needs to get 433 00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:47.940 them to do different things, but we still learn more things about 434 00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:55.259 them, and I think the idea, The idea of the angels is, I think 435 00:22:55.259 --> 00:23:01.319 that they turn up in a television program and it's when you view 436 00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:05.579 them that they're powerless and when you stop looking at them, they 437 00:23:05.579 --> 00:23:07.740 can possibly attack you. 438 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:11.940 And given that we engage with television by watching images. 439 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:16.619 It's telling that in blink, the angels don't move when they're 440 00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:20.400 observed by characters in the show, but they also don't move when 441 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:25.740 we're watching them as well. so we never see them move at all. 442 00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:30.839 And so having an angel on television come out of the television 443 00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:37.859 and threaten Amy because the angel on your TV screen is also an 444 00:23:37.859 --> 00:23:41.519 angel because the image of an angel is in itself an angel. 445 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:44.880 But isn't that also that typical sort of wonderful Moffatt thing 446 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:47.640 of getting at the things that frighten you as a child. 447 00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:50.579 You know, a small child will think that the person on the 448 00:23:50.579 --> 00:23:54.180 television screen can see them as much as you can see the person 449 00:23:54.180 --> 00:23:56.220 on the television and it harks back to that. 450 00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:58.859 But the other wonderful thing is I love the effect, they have this 451 00:23:58.859 --> 00:24:01.619 low def video effect on it, and that, I think, makes it all the 452 00:24:01.619 --> 00:24:02.160 more creepy. 453 00:24:02.220 --> 00:24:02.700 Yeah. 454 00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:06.539 And the way that she deals with it by waiting until the picture 455 00:24:06.539 --> 00:24:08.160 drops out and pausing the video. 456 00:24:08.220 --> 00:24:09.660 It's very retro. 457 00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:12.119 It's like us going back to a VHS in the 80s or something. 458 00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:12.539 Yeah. 459 00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:16.200 And it's a great scene for Karen because I think you were pointing 460 00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:18.420 out the other day, Nathan, when we were talking about it, it gives 461 00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:21.779 Amy a chance to be properly clever to get out of it by herself. 462 00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:24.539 She doesn't need rescuing by the doctor and river. 463 00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:29.640 And the way that it's shot is really important for Amy, because 464 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:33.900 you have all of those big close-ups on the smooth round angel face 465 00:24:33.900 --> 00:24:38.160 matched by big close-ups on Amy's wide-eyed face. 466 00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:39.900 And so there's kind of a resonance there. 467 00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:41.099 Yeah, yeah. 468 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.160 I also think too, it's quite clever that we're intercutting 469 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.299 between that scene and the doctor reading the book that doesn't 470 00:24:48.299 --> 00:24:51.539 have any pictures in it because a picture of an angel is itself an 471 00:24:51.539 --> 00:24:52.019 angel. 472 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.619 So he discovers what she's experiencing at the same time. 473 00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:59.400 And even though he runs to the dropship or wherever they are and 474 00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:03.539 sort of tries to help her out, she's the one who comes up with the 475 00:25:03.539 --> 00:25:04.500 way of solving it. 476 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:09.539 And again, this is Karen's 1st day and she is incredible. 477 00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:10.980 I love her. 478 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:12.000 She is brilliant. 479 00:25:12.059 --> 00:25:15.420 You know, I think she's such a good companion. 480 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:18.119 She's an actress, but she's also such a good companion. 481 00:25:18.180 --> 00:25:20.279 The way, you know, she has that teasing of the doctor. 482 00:25:20.339 --> 00:25:24.059 Just, just, it goes back to the way Sarah Jane would tease Tom or 483 00:25:24.059 --> 00:25:27.000 Tegan would tease, tease the Davidson doctor. 484 00:25:27.059 --> 00:25:30.000 It's just got they just got the relationship right. 485 00:25:30.059 --> 00:25:32.940 But if I can just catch it on the book and the way the doctor's 486 00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:35.519 reading the book and discovering it as we're discovering it 487 00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:36.240 through Amy. 488 00:25:36.299 --> 00:25:39.900 I mean, that is a classic way of building tension in that way. 489 00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:44.819 You know just words ahead of what the characters on the screen are 490 00:25:44.819 --> 00:25:45.240 saying. 491 00:25:45.299 --> 00:25:47.339 You know, you already caught up. 492 00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:48.180 You're ahead of them. 493 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:50.640 And that's what creates this wonderful moment of tension because 494 00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:53.759 you've got the 2 scenes going on in parallel and it just builds up 495 00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:54.180 beautifully. 496 00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:13.380 The other thing that's sort of super interesting is the reveal 497 00:26:13.380 --> 00:26:16.440 that the statues that they've been walking beside of all the time 498 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:18.900 are actually literally all angels. 499 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.740 It's not one angel, but it's an entire maze full of angels. 500 00:26:22.859 --> 00:26:27.240 And again, you realise that practically at the same time as the 501 00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:30.660 characters, oh, no, they've only got one head. 502 00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:31.920 Yeah, yeah. 503 00:26:31.980 --> 00:26:36.059 In fact, I think it's cleverer than that because the doctor 504 00:26:36.059 --> 00:26:40.980 realises it and River realises it immediately and both of them or 505 00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:45.180 River at least says, how can we not have seen that? 506 00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:47.819 And it's possible that on 1st watch. 507 00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:50.279 You haven't picked up on it either. 508 00:26:50.339 --> 00:26:53.640 Because all the Appland dialogue about the Applands having 2 heads 509 00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:57.359 is played for comedy because it's as silly as anything and it's 510 00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:58.859 all about them snogging and stuff like that. 511 00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:01.319 You just think, oh, well, this is sort of wonderful, silly 512 00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:02.880 throwaway Doctor Who dialogue. 513 00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:05.460 But, of course, it becomes an absolute clue. 514 00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:08.880 And then the moment you find it out, then you think, 0 my god, how 515 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:10.380 did we not realise that as well? 516 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:15.539 And he'll do this next week where the doctor realises something 517 00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:20.099 and River realises it before the doctor actually articulates it. 518 00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:24.059 And it's one of the things that Moffatt is capable of that not 519 00:27:24.059 --> 00:27:27.779 every Doctor Who writer is capable of, which is making the 520 00:27:27.779 --> 00:27:32.940 characters properly smart because you need a smart person to write 521 00:27:32.940 --> 00:27:33.900 smart people. 522 00:27:33.900 --> 00:27:39.480 And so often the doctor is blustering or charismatic or whatever 523 00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:40.859 and solves things that way. 524 00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:45.839 But more properly makes the doctor smart again, I think. 525 00:27:45.900 --> 00:27:49.079 But also in the old series, often writers would make the mistake 526 00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:52.079 of having the doctor explain to the characters around them. 527 00:27:52.140 --> 00:27:55.200 And so therefore the characters around them were stupid. 528 00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:58.200 Whereas what Moffat does is make the characters around the doctor 529 00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:00.779 smart, and so they interact with him on the same level. 530 00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:03.839 And he just pushes it that little further, it says, and that means 531 00:28:03.839 --> 00:28:04.559 or whatever. 532 00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:07.259 He gets them to reach the conclusion. 533 00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:07.680 Yep. 534 00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:10.619 And that becomes now suddenly properly scary. 535 00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:13.799 Like that changes the nature of everything we've seen up to that 536 00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:17.220 point, which is we're just, you know, walking among statues of the 537 00:28:17.220 --> 00:28:17.579 dead. 538 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:19.559 Now it turns out there's a whole army. 539 00:28:19.619 --> 00:28:22.259 And I think that's the point at which the doctor realises that the 540 00:28:22.259 --> 00:28:25.920 crash of the Byzantium isn't an accident, that the angel has sent 541 00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:28.019 it there so he can rescue all of the other angels. 542 00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:31.019 Isn't it great too, that you see all this written on his face? 543 00:28:31.079 --> 00:28:33.960 Like there are those moments where he's he's looking, not at the 544 00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:35.819 camera, but sort of vaguely towards the camera and everyone else 545 00:28:35.819 --> 00:28:38.759 is behind him and you can see his his eyes dart and he's sort of 546 00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:41.819 thinking and you can you can see the thought process going and 547 00:28:41.819 --> 00:28:42.420 working it out. 548 00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:44.460 It's very Sherlock, admittedly, that sort of thing. 549 00:28:44.519 --> 00:28:45.299 Yeah, yeah. 550 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:49.200 And of course, Sweet Little Bob, the actor who plays Bob, went 551 00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:52.079 into Hollyoaks after this, obviously liked being surrounded by 552 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:52.920 inanimate objects. 553 00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:56.400 He is so pretty. 554 00:28:56.460 --> 00:28:57.960 He is very pretty, yes. 555 00:28:58.019 --> 00:28:59.579 The loveliest eyes. 556 00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:03.119 I mean, he must have been cast for his voice because his voice is 557 00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:04.019 so innocent. 558 00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:07.799 Well, I mean, he's only on screen for like one scene. 559 00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:13.740 And it's that it's Moffatt sort of riffing, I think, on army of 560 00:29:13.740 --> 00:29:17.880 ghosts where, you know, a character goes and gets taken over by 561 00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:20.700 Cyberman and then calls another character and says, here, come and 562 00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:21.660 look at this interesting thing. 563 00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:22.200 What is it? 564 00:29:22.259 --> 00:29:23.220 I'm not going to tell you. 565 00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:24.240 Just come and look at it. 566 00:29:24.299 --> 00:29:25.500 And it happens twice. 567 00:29:25.559 --> 00:29:27.960 It happens 3 times. 568 00:29:28.019 --> 00:29:29.279 That's right. 569 00:29:29.339 --> 00:29:31.680 And it's another Moffat thing. 570 00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:36.720 And I think that I'm still at the point where I'm happy for Moffat 571 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:38.460 to do his things again. 572 00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:44.940 And this is a dead person who is still in some sense conscious and 573 00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:46.619 is speaking. 574 00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:50.460 And so that's another thing that's never been done before with the 575 00:29:50.460 --> 00:29:54.480 angels because they're voiceless, but they're given the voice of 576 00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:59.279 Bob, and that works because A, it's terrifying. 577 00:29:59.339 --> 00:30:02.220 You know, he's been torn to pieces and his brain's being used. 578 00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:08.339 Lovely, innocent young man. being used by these evil creatures. 579 00:30:08.339 --> 00:30:12.660 And the way that Angel Bob describes his dad. 580 00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:14.099 Yeah, yeah. is just horrific. 581 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:15.960 So he's at both at the same time. 582 00:30:16.019 --> 00:30:18.720 He is the dead bob, but he's also the angel. 583 00:30:18.779 --> 00:30:22.140 It's just the angel Bob has the dying Bob's memories. 584 00:30:22.259 --> 00:30:25.559 It ripped out my cerebral cortex or something. 585 00:30:25.619 --> 00:30:26.039 Yeah, yeah. 586 00:30:26.099 --> 00:30:30.000 But it just means that that angel now has a voice, but it's not a 587 00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:32.519 sort of scary, you know, Gabriel Wolf voice. 588 00:30:32.579 --> 00:30:34.559 He keeps calling the doctor, sir. 589 00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:36.900 He's referring to the angel in the 3rd person. 590 00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:40.980 The doctor will trick him next week into saying the words comfy 591 00:30:40.980 --> 00:30:41.460 chairs. 592 00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:43.440 You know, like, it's fun. 593 00:30:43.500 --> 00:30:44.700 It's still terrifying. 594 00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:47.279 It doesn't make the angels any less terrifying, but it's much more 595 00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:47.519 fun. 596 00:30:47.579 --> 00:30:49.500 You should have been so for a reasonable comfort. 597 00:30:49.619 --> 00:30:50.579 It should have. 598 00:30:50.700 --> 00:30:53.640 When the doctor says about stripping his cerebral cortex. 599 00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:55.259 It sounds like de veining a prawn. 600 00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:58.079 Yeah, throw another bulb on the Barbie. 601 00:30:58.140 --> 00:30:59.940 I think Moffat missed a trick. 602 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:03.119 He should have been a radio writer as well, because so many of his 603 00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:06.779 rightly tricks are to do with voice and things like that. 604 00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:09.480 And we'll see it again in world and often time and the doctor 605 00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:13.980 falls, where that whole scene is built around the fact that the 606 00:31:13.980 --> 00:31:16.019 patients aren't being treated for pain. 607 00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:17.460 They're just having the volume turned down. 608 00:31:17.460 --> 00:31:18.240 Yeah, yeah. 609 00:31:18.299 --> 00:31:20.099 And he's so good at that kind of thing. 610 00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:22.859 If I can just touch on what you're saying about, you know, the 611 00:31:22.859 --> 00:31:24.000 Angel Bob thing, it's so fun. 612 00:31:24.059 --> 00:31:26.880 Okay, yeah, he gets to say comfy sofa and all that business. 613 00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:28.259 But it's not fun. 614 00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:31.500 It's very dark I mean, I know that it allows. 615 00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:32.579 See, this is what I'm trying to say. 616 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:36.720 It allows for these witty lines to be thrown away here and there 617 00:31:36.779 --> 00:31:40.799 like the word sofa, but it's actually a very dark creepy thing. 618 00:31:40.859 --> 00:31:43.200 And I thought to being silly in a serious situation. 619 00:31:43.259 --> 00:31:43.920 Exactly. 620 00:31:43.980 --> 00:31:46.319 And I think that's worth underscoring. 621 00:31:46.380 --> 00:31:49.740 Do you think that's why the humour works so well in these stories 622 00:31:49.740 --> 00:31:53.759 is because of that juxtaposition between the lightness of the 623 00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:56.339 humour and the darkness, the story. 624 00:31:56.400 --> 00:31:59.460 Yeah, 100%, but it's because the humour isn't the central thing 625 00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:01.079 the humour is the layer. 626 00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:03.720 It's the, it's the garnish. 627 00:32:03.779 --> 00:32:04.079 Thank you. 628 00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:05.099 You know what I mean? 629 00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:07.920 And I think it's when the humour becomes what it's about. 630 00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:10.319 That's when it's been... 631 00:32:10.380 --> 00:32:12.119 I mean, you can do that from time to time because it's fine. 632 00:32:12.180 --> 00:32:13.859 You know, you still want to do love and monsters or whatever, but 633 00:32:13.859 --> 00:32:16.500 it can't always be like that. 634 00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:19.500 And I just think that it's got that creepiness. 635 00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:25.140 But at the same time, you need the humour to dull the creepiness 636 00:32:25.140 --> 00:32:27.599 because otherwise, oh, actually, that's really, really good. 637 00:32:27.660 --> 00:32:29.880 As a relief, as a relief. as a relief. 638 00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:30.839 You need a humourous relief. 639 00:32:30.900 --> 00:32:32.579 And that's why I think the balance is right. 640 00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:34.920 And that's why I think Moffat, by and large, gets the balance 641 00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:35.279 right. 642 00:32:35.339 --> 00:32:37.019 But of course, he also just can't help himself. 643 00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:38.880 He's just a clever funny writer. 644 00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:40.019 So he's going to throw in jokes. 645 00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:44.519 Do we like the whole concept of the angels now having a voice? 646 00:32:44.579 --> 00:32:45.720 Yes. 647 00:32:45.779 --> 00:32:46.619 I think so. 648 00:32:46.680 --> 00:32:50.519 I think it's necessary for just purposes of exposition so that we 649 00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:52.500 know what the angels want and what they're doing. 650 00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:56.400 We do lose something because what's interesting about the angels 651 00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:58.500 in blink is that they're implacable and completely 652 00:32:58.500 --> 00:33:00.000 incomprehensible. 653 00:33:00.059 --> 00:33:02.220 You know, they're from the dawn of time. 654 00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:06.420 They're in some senses sort of an elemental force. 655 00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:09.960 They're described as having evolved and stuff, but, you know, how 656 00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:11.099 can that possibly have happened? 657 00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:14.519 So it does take something away by giving them a voice. 658 00:33:14.579 --> 00:33:15.480 We know what they want. 659 00:33:15.539 --> 00:33:20.039 But because what they want is so terrible, you know, like they 660 00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:25.559 laugh at one point next week, they are doing things just for fun. 661 00:33:25.619 --> 00:33:30.660 Like they're doing evil things. where they explain that Bob died 662 00:33:30.660 --> 00:33:32.160 in fear and pain. 663 00:33:32.220 --> 00:33:34.079 The angels were very keen for you to know. 664 00:33:34.140 --> 00:33:35.519 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 665 00:33:35.579 --> 00:33:38.880 So it actually allows them because they're manipulating the doctor 666 00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:39.960 there, aren't they? 667 00:33:40.019 --> 00:33:42.900 They're trying to get him angry is what's said. 668 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:47.160 And so giving us an insight into their thought processes, yes, we 669 00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:48.299 do lose something there. 670 00:33:48.359 --> 00:33:51.480 But what we gain, I think, is absolutely worth it. 671 00:33:51.539 --> 00:33:52.859 Yeah, I agree. 672 00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:56.940 I think it's needed for, you know, a 2 part plot to work. 673 00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:00.299 Otherwise, it had become a bit flat, but at the same time, I 674 00:34:00.299 --> 00:34:04.079 there's a part of me that wants to see what might it have looked 675 00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:08.699 like had there been no angel Bob, because that also makes it very 676 00:34:08.699 --> 00:34:15.000 mysterious and you never quite know and unfathomable. 677 00:34:15.059 --> 00:34:15.300 Exactly. 678 00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:17.340 And it's one of those things the more you get to find out about 679 00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:18.840 something, the more known they are. 680 00:34:18.900 --> 00:34:22.199 And therefore, sort of the more normal they are, the more boring 681 00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:22.500 they are. 682 00:34:22.619 --> 00:34:26.280 There is something that I think is lost following all this that 683 00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:27.360 they've introduced since Blink. 684 00:34:27.420 --> 00:34:28.800 It's the Borg effect, isn't it? 685 00:34:28.860 --> 00:34:29.639 Yes, exactly. 686 00:34:29.699 --> 00:34:30.599 Oh, queen. 687 00:34:30.659 --> 00:34:32.219 Is that a good thing or a bad thing? 688 00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:35.460 I mean, it opens up storytelling, but, you know, people... 689 00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:36.480 Well, exactly. 690 00:34:36.539 --> 00:34:36.960 Yeah. 691 00:34:37.019 --> 00:34:39.480 And before that, of course, you get Patrick Stewart playing 692 00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:41.639 Locutus, fulfilling the same function. 693 00:34:41.699 --> 00:34:45.780 But it opens up the storytelling, but in many ways, the Borg were 694 00:34:45.780 --> 00:34:48.179 never as popular as they were in their 1st appearance or 2 when 695 00:34:48.179 --> 00:34:49.019 they didn't have that. 696 00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:53.760 Yeah, but, but, I mean, the Borg are a little bit boring in their 697 00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:57.000 1st appearance, except, well, look, they're amazing, but they 698 00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:00.179 don't react to you when you wander around their spaceship in a way 699 00:35:00.179 --> 00:35:01.739 they're not a threat. 700 00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:04.260 Basically just to rip off of the cyberman. 701 00:35:04.260 --> 00:35:04.500 Yeah. 702 00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:06.659 Yeah, but also that's Deanna Troy as well. 703 00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:12.179 But it is sort of like when the crinoid and seeds of doom suddenly 704 00:35:12.179 --> 00:35:13.380 talks to them when they're in the house. 705 00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:15.179 You know, it's kind of like, where the hell did that come from? 706 00:35:15.300 --> 00:35:16.380 And then it never happens again. 707 00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:20.579 I guess, though, that we do gain new things. 708 00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:25.260 And I do think the idea that the very sight of an angel is a 709 00:35:25.260 --> 00:35:25.860 threat. 710 00:35:25.980 --> 00:35:30.719 And we start to see, you know, Amy, Amy does a little bit of a 711 00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:34.079 sort of Barbara in Planet of Giants thing where she kind of 712 00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:34.739 downplays. 713 00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:37.199 She's got something in her eye, but we're sort of downplaying it 714 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.659 and she rubs her eye and all this sand comes out and stuff. 715 00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:40.980 I am just dying. 716 00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:47.400 And so suddenly, not looking at an angel is deadly, but looking at 717 00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:48.599 an angel is deadly. 718 00:35:48.659 --> 00:35:51.659 Deadly swear. beautifully a beautiful edition. 719 00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:52.679 It's really good. 720 00:35:53.219 --> 00:35:57.420 And because angels are, they're iconic, you know, we think of them 721 00:35:57.420 --> 00:36:00.539 as associated with sort of gravestones and stuff, that's why 722 00:36:00.539 --> 00:36:02.219 they're called the weeping angels and things. 723 00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:05.460 You know, they are an image. 724 00:36:05.460 --> 00:36:10.260 And so having them be an image in the show, I think, is sort of is 725 00:36:10.260 --> 00:36:11.039 terrifically good. 726 00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:14.099 Oh my goodness, Karen plays those scenes well. 727 00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:15.179 Oh, good. 728 00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:17.579 That scene at the end where her hand is stone. 729 00:36:17.579 --> 00:36:23.219 And, you know, we do the no leave me scene, you know, which the 730 00:36:23.219 --> 00:36:25.920 doctor just subverts wonderfully by just biting her. 731 00:36:25.980 --> 00:36:28.199 And he kept biting her hand for real. 732 00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:30.239 In the takes. 733 00:36:30.300 --> 00:36:31.019 Yeah, in the takes. 734 00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:37.019 Can I just also, though, go back to the angels, the changing of 735 00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:39.239 the angels because, of course, you have to, and that's, it opens 736 00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:40.800 the plot up and blah, blah, blah. 737 00:36:40.860 --> 00:36:44.579 I wonder whether I necessarily wanted us to have the thing that 738 00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:49.500 the angels, you know, wanted Angel Bob to die in fear and terror 739 00:36:49.500 --> 00:36:50.699 and pain and all the rest of it. 740 00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:53.519 I don't want them to have that motivation. 741 00:36:53.579 --> 00:36:56.579 I just want them to be sucking people back in time and I want them 742 00:36:56.579 --> 00:36:57.360 to be evil. 743 00:36:57.420 --> 00:36:58.199 You want them to be implacable. 744 00:36:58.260 --> 00:36:58.860 Exactly. 745 00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:00.840 And I think they were, in some respects, it's more interesting 746 00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:04.739 when they're just implacable, but they have an evil effect rather 747 00:37:04.739 --> 00:37:07.079 than their motivation is evil, if that makes sense. 748 00:37:07.139 --> 00:37:09.059 I think it's, I agree with you. 749 00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:12.480 I think it's slightly lampshaded in the writing by the fact that 750 00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:15.719 these are not the same angels, and so you have a species which has 751 00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:19.739 different motivations and worse examples of the species than 752 00:37:19.739 --> 00:37:20.039 others. 753 00:37:20.099 --> 00:37:21.239 Like the gunna dalek. 754 00:37:21.780 --> 00:37:27.420 And the implication is that these angels, what have been dormant 755 00:37:27.420 --> 00:37:28.139 for a very long time. 756 00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:32.099 So they might be an earlier evolutionary part of it. 757 00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:34.139 Well, they just got bored and they want to create some mischief. 758 00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:34.679 Yes, exactly. 759 00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:38.340 Or did they did they eat all the app plans and then starve? 760 00:37:38.460 --> 00:37:40.260 You know what they say? 761 00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:41.099 An app land a day. 762 00:37:41.159 --> 00:37:44.159 Well, the athletic this time, the doctor came. 763 00:37:44.820 --> 00:37:48.900 Well, we know that they died out and we didn't know why, and the 764 00:37:48.900 --> 00:37:51.119 doctor does say, ah, now we know why. 765 00:37:51.179 --> 00:37:55.079 So we do know that the angels have wiped out the app plans and we 766 00:37:55.079 --> 00:38:01.019 know that there's 6000000000 people in word peril on this planet. 767 00:38:01.019 --> 00:38:04.079 Somewhat unnecessarily who are going to be killed. 768 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:07.500 And so, look, I don't mind that so much. 769 00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:14.099 What Moffatt does to monsters is he changes them so that he can 770 00:38:14.099 --> 00:38:16.380 tell the story that he wants to tell? 771 00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:17.940 He does it. 772 00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.219 But he does it, I think, more than anyone else. 773 00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:22.139 You know, suddenly the cybermen can fly. 774 00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:25.500 Suddenly a dalek can be a person with an eye stalk sticking out of 775 00:38:25.500 --> 00:38:25.860 their head. 776 00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:28.679 You know, like all of those things. all the most successful 777 00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:29.400 examples. 778 00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:32.519 I love that. 779 00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:34.559 But we will. 780 00:38:35.219 --> 00:38:38.400 It's a thing that we'll talk about more because it's the theme of 781 00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:39.420 this series. 782 00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:43.260 It's that Moffat is all about storytelling. 783 00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:47.519 And one of the things that stops this from being super 784 00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:48.420 straightforward. 785 00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:51.719 And there's more of that next week than this week is the fact that 786 00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:55.320 people have partial knowledge that people forget things, that 787 00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:56.820 people lie to one another. 788 00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:59.039 All of that stuff is here. 789 00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:06.539 And that's that's Moffatt fighting against a coherent external 790 00:39:06.539 --> 00:39:10.440 version of reality because his Doctor Who is all about telling 791 00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:11.219 stories. 792 00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:16.619 And that will obviously reach a massive peak in the finale, but 793 00:39:16.619 --> 00:39:18.599 and more of it next week, I think. 794 00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:28.619 Speaking of partial knowledge and people lying. 795 00:39:28.980 --> 00:39:31.019 You upset me. 796 00:39:31.019 --> 00:39:35.099 We do find out quite a bit about River Song. 797 00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:35.760 Yes. 798 00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:37.440 So it's funny. 799 00:39:37.619 --> 00:39:42.719 It's funny that Karen immediately identifies that it's the 800 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:43.440 doctor's wife. 801 00:39:43.500 --> 00:39:45.059 And the doctor... 802 00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:49.980 The doctor says, yes. straight away, but turns out he's saying yes 803 00:39:49.980 --> 00:39:50.579 about something else. 804 00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:53.280 Yes, that's that's just beautiful dialogue. 805 00:39:53.340 --> 00:39:54.179 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 806 00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:57.599 And then she needles him like repeatedly throughout the next 807 00:39:57.599 --> 00:39:59.820 two... 808 00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:05.579 All the answers are in plain sight because when Amy says to very 809 00:40:05.579 --> 00:40:08.579 early on, she says to River and the Tartars, are you his wife? 810 00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:11.039 River Song says you're very clever. 811 00:40:11.099 --> 00:40:12.239 I'm not saying yes. 812 00:40:12.300 --> 00:40:14.460 Of course she is saying yes. 813 00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:18.119 I think my favourite line, though, in all of that sort of sequence 814 00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:20.340 is it's a long story and I don't know most of it. 815 00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:21.480 Yeah, yeah. 816 00:40:21.539 --> 00:40:25.920 Again, you know, that stuff about partial knowledge, you know, the 817 00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:32.219 doctor and river both have sort of massive scary ignorances of 818 00:40:32.219 --> 00:40:35.760 what goes on in their relationship and even the nature of it. 819 00:40:35.820 --> 00:40:37.380 It's really sort of something. 820 00:40:37.500 --> 00:40:41.460 But I, I like that about Moffat, that's one of the things that I 821 00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:47.159 actually like is we know that they're married and the moment that 822 00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:50.579 we hear that she's killed someone even more so next week. 823 00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:52.619 It's very clear that she's killed the doctor. 824 00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:56.219 And he follows through on that in series 6. 825 00:40:56.280 --> 00:41:02.519 And it's a little bit like series 8 where Missy is probably the 826 00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:07.619 master and it turns out to nobody's surprised that she's actually 827 00:41:07.619 --> 00:41:08.340 the master. 828 00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:15.539 And in a way, the actual revelation isn't the interesting thing 829 00:41:15.539 --> 00:41:18.780 the being teased is the interesting thing. 830 00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:22.980 That's a thing that people complain about with Moffat, that things 831 00:41:22.980 --> 00:41:28.920 don't always pay off or things that he teasers don't always 832 00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:34.800 properly get addressed, but again, it's stories and who cares? 833 00:41:34.860 --> 00:41:37.500 Is that what people complain about with Moffin? 834 00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:38.159 Sometimes. 835 00:41:38.219 --> 00:41:41.460 I mean, I still don't know who why the Tardis blows up in the 836 00:41:41.460 --> 00:41:41.940 finale. 837 00:41:42.059 --> 00:41:44.940 But it doesn't really matter. 838 00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:45.599 Yeah. 839 00:41:45.659 --> 00:41:46.500 Well, that's it. 840 00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:48.420 There's lots of things that happen in Doctor Who that you don't 841 00:41:48.420 --> 00:41:48.659 know why. 842 00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:49.139 Yeah, exactly. 843 00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:49.500 I agree. 844 00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:50.219 I absolutely agree. 845 00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:53.880 And also, he does he does wrap everything up in time of the 846 00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:54.179 doctor. 847 00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:54.900 Yeah. 848 00:41:54.900 --> 00:41:59.340 But with a few, he makes a stab at it Well, but again, he's kind 849 00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:00.119 of toying with this. 850 00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:03.360 It's like, it's like the beginning of the 3rd series of Sherlock. 851 00:42:03.420 --> 00:42:07.500 Basically, the idea is any resolution of this cliffhanger is in 852 00:42:07.500 --> 00:42:08.820 some way going to be dumb. 853 00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:11.099 So let's just kind of lean into it. 854 00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:14.039 Moffatt's always clever and he's always writing to a high level. 855 00:42:14.099 --> 00:42:16.860 I think the thing that changes is the audience response to it. 856 00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:20.519 So if you like what he's doing and where he's gone with it, you'll 857 00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:23.280 say isn't Moffat clever, if you don't, she'll say, well, he's 858 00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:23.699 being too clever. 859 00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:26.039 And also he's doing his shtick. 860 00:42:26.099 --> 00:42:26.460 Yeah. 861 00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:31.500 I remember there was that event at Fox Studios or in the Horton 862 00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:36.239 Pavilion, where Moffat came out with Capaldi and it was towards 863 00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:37.440 the end of the run, I think. 864 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:43.199 And an audience member actually said to his face, I mean, you know 865 00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:46.139 in a room of a 1000 people that, oh, you're just going to come up 866 00:42:46.139 --> 00:42:49.800 with some Moffat thing to, you know, get out of whatever. 867 00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:52.440 And he called them on it as he should. 868 00:42:52.500 --> 00:42:55.139 But isn't that, so is that what, is it what they're talking about 869 00:42:55.139 --> 00:42:57.059 the fact that there's kind of like something that's just magicked 870 00:42:57.059 --> 00:42:58.860 up out of nowhere because that's actually not how I see his 871 00:42:58.860 --> 00:42:59.219 writing. 872 00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:03.659 Or is it just the timey whiminess that some people find OTT? 873 00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:05.940 That person mentors an insult that... 874 00:43:05.940 --> 00:43:07.500 No, no, that means the insult. was terrible. 875 00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:09.300 It goes back to what I was saying. 876 00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:12.119 I think if you like what he's doing, then you will sing his 877 00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:12.539 praises. 878 00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:15.360 If you don't, you'll say he's being too clever and he's doing his 879 00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:15.900 shtick. 880 00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:20.400 And so it's a purely subjective response to a 100% cleverness all 881 00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:20.639 the time. 882 00:43:20.699 --> 00:43:26.820 I do actually later in the run think that there are episodes where 883 00:43:26.820 --> 00:43:31.980 he's doing the thing that he's done before and maybe not as well. 884 00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:36.119 And I do think that he does have a tendency to go back to a few 885 00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:37.920 sort of favourite tropes. 886 00:43:37.980 --> 00:43:41.639 But I do like the cleverness of his writing. 887 00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:47.880 And I actually really like the aggressive refusal to build up a 888 00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:52.440 coherent world. like an active rejection of the universe. 889 00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:55.860 And I think you've put your finger on one of the reasons why when 890 00:43:55.860 --> 00:43:59.280 this season started, I responded so differently to the program. 891 00:43:59.340 --> 00:44:03.599 I just recently heard your RTD era retrospective. 892 00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:08.099 And many of you were talking about how comfortable and safe and 893 00:44:08.099 --> 00:44:11.280 cosy the Russ Sitty Davies era felt. 894 00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:14.579 And I think you, Nathan, would talk about how, you know, there was 895 00:44:14.579 --> 00:44:18.119 a family in a home and you got you got a sense of A world. 896 00:44:18.179 --> 00:44:18.840 Yeah. 897 00:44:18.840 --> 00:44:22.860 Well, I think for me, the existence of that world, that kind of 898 00:44:22.860 --> 00:44:25.739 world in Doctor Who was what made me feel uncomfortable about it. 899 00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:29.039 Whereas now we reject the concept of those worlds. 900 00:44:29.099 --> 00:44:32.039 Yes, there are still real places and there's still some sense of 901 00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:33.780 ongoing continuity. 902 00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:36.900 But, you know, you go from, you know, an English village in the 903 00:44:36.900 --> 00:44:40.980 1st episode to a totally imaginary and ridiculous idea of, you 904 00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:44.039 know, the English or English and Welsh population, whatever it is 905 00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:47.340 on a spaceship in the nondescriptly distant future. 906 00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:50.099 It doesn't matter that you have to be able to work out how that 907 00:44:50.099 --> 00:44:52.380 fits within arc in space and all this other stuff. you know what I 908 00:44:52.380 --> 00:44:52.500 mean? 909 00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:54.539 It's just because of a function. 910 00:44:54.599 --> 00:44:58.019 Yeah, but my point is that there's not this sense of we're all in 911 00:44:58.019 --> 00:44:59.400 this continuous universe. 912 00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:02.099 There's no manual on the shelf where they've written the history 913 00:45:02.099 --> 00:45:05.219 of the universe from go to woe, and everything's got to fit within 914 00:45:05.219 --> 00:45:05.699 this world. 915 00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:07.980 There is, you know, didn't Lance Park and right? 916 00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:10.320 But you know what I mean? 917 00:45:10.380 --> 00:45:11.099 But it is a flavour. 918 00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:12.360 It changes the flavour of the show. 919 00:45:12.420 --> 00:45:16.440 I think that's one of the brilliant things and one of the things I 920 00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:20.940 love so much about Moffatt's version of the show is that although 921 00:45:20.940 --> 00:45:23.400 the universe isn't coherent. 922 00:45:23.460 --> 00:45:26.760 He gives reasons for why it isn't as well, constantly is giving 923 00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:31.619 reasons for why continuity doesn't work, but it's so expansive and 924 00:45:31.619 --> 00:45:35.940 imaginative and... 925 00:45:35.940 --> 00:45:36.539 There are no boundaries. 926 00:45:36.599 --> 00:45:38.099 There are no boundaries, exactly. 927 00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:44.280 I mean, I love, I love the ITD era, because it uses his skills as 928 00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:49.559 a TV writer to do something to a show that can literally be 929 00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:55.619 anything and to find a way sure of circumscribing it, but of 930 00:45:55.619 --> 00:45:58.739 enabling a group of characters that you grow to love. 931 00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:02.039 And it's super important for Russell. 932 00:46:02.099 --> 00:46:03.840 It's something that he's supremely skilled at. 933 00:46:03.900 --> 00:46:07.500 Think of years and years and it's a sin, you know, both of those 934 00:46:07.500 --> 00:46:10.079 you end up with a group of characters whom you really like. 935 00:46:10.139 --> 00:46:14.519 And the ongoing impact of that is that it enriches the show. 936 00:46:14.579 --> 00:46:18.900 And bringing it back into a sort of TV environment that didn't 937 00:46:18.900 --> 00:46:20.519 really know about Doctor Who. 938 00:46:20.579 --> 00:46:25.139 I think it was kind of the right approach, but when we go away 939 00:46:25.139 --> 00:46:28.380 from it, we can always go back and watch that, if that's what we 940 00:46:28.380 --> 00:46:28.619 want. 941 00:46:28.679 --> 00:46:30.480 When we move away from it. 942 00:46:30.539 --> 00:46:34.800 I've spent a lot of time thinking, you know, wishing there was a 943 00:46:34.800 --> 00:46:37.139 mum. in the Moffett era. 944 00:46:37.260 --> 00:46:41.579 And I do think Amy's mum who gets one scene in the finale. 945 00:46:41.639 --> 00:46:42.659 Isn't it River song? 946 00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:43.380 No. 947 00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:45.659 Isn't she the mum in the era? 948 00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:46.440 Well, I guess so. 949 00:46:46.500 --> 00:46:47.400 I guess she probably is. 950 00:46:47.460 --> 00:46:48.780 But she's a little sexier. 951 00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:50.579 She's a MILF. 952 00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:52.860 How dare you say that about Kimmel? 953 00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:56.039 I actually think Amy's mum is really funny in that one scene. 954 00:46:56.099 --> 00:46:57.599 She gets some pretty funny lines. 955 00:46:57.659 --> 00:47:01.559 But it is fun to leave that. 956 00:47:01.619 --> 00:47:03.840 And then to do something sort of... 957 00:47:03.900 --> 00:47:06.000 Yeah, really ambitious and interesting. 958 00:47:06.059 --> 00:47:09.420 And a friend of the podcast, Eric, from the writer's room. 959 00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:14.099 The last episode of his that I heard was talking about the 1st 2 960 00:47:14.099 --> 00:47:15.539 episodes of series one. 961 00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:22.260 And he talked about how great the universe that Russell creates is 962 00:47:22.260 --> 00:47:26.579 but says that by the end he was finding it a bit stifling. 963 00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:30.420 You know, I've observed before that Russell makes the same season 964 00:47:30.420 --> 00:47:33.300 4 times in a very real sense. 965 00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:34.320 There's a lot of variety. 966 00:47:34.380 --> 00:47:35.039 Do you know what I mean? 967 00:47:35.099 --> 00:47:37.920 We go to the far future in the past and we have comedy episodes 968 00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:39.960 and dark episodes and horror episodes and stuff. 969 00:47:40.019 --> 00:47:43.320 Doctor Who can still do a lot of things, but it is kind of nice to 970 00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:44.940 see it set free from that a bit. 971 00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:47.519 But it's like, it's a formula that works. 972 00:47:47.579 --> 00:47:50.579 That formula works, you said earlier, earlier in this recording 973 00:47:50.579 --> 00:47:54.539 that Moffatt uses that basic formula. 974 00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:55.260 Yeah. 975 00:47:55.380 --> 00:47:58.260 And and continues to do it until series 9. 976 00:47:58.380 --> 00:48:00.900 Yeah, that's a formula of just in Safari is how you structure the 977 00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:01.800 production of the season. 978 00:48:01.860 --> 00:48:05.820 That's not formula in terms of how the episodes are written 979 00:48:05.820 --> 00:48:06.599 particularly. 980 00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:07.920 I don't know about that. 981 00:48:07.980 --> 00:48:12.360 Yeah, no, I think it's very much kind of in the Ross Lera and 982 00:48:12.360 --> 00:48:13.739 Moffat follows that in series five. 983 00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:16.619 You have those 1st couple of episodes which sort of run the gamut 984 00:48:16.619 --> 00:48:20.219 of where Doctor Who goes, then you have the big fun 2 parter. 985 00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:23.159 You have some character stuff in the middle, the darker 2 part. 986 00:48:23.219 --> 00:48:24.539 That's not just a function of production. 987 00:48:24.659 --> 00:48:29.159 No, but it's still, um, okay, yes, I get what you're saying, but 988 00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:31.079 I'm talking about production in terms of, well, how you do 989 00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:33.239 episodes about A, B, and C and how you kind of scatter them 990 00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:33.840 throughout the season. 991 00:48:33.900 --> 00:48:36.000 Kind of like you might, you know, Barrelettes might have done in 992 00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:37.260 the early 70s. 993 00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:39.480 Separating Mark of the Ranian time lash. 994 00:48:39.539 --> 00:48:40.980 For example. 995 00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:45.000 But it's still, it's still the bandwidth is open. 996 00:48:45.059 --> 00:48:47.699 And I'm not saying it was the wrong decision. 997 00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:50.280 I totally get why they brought it back the way they did in all 998 00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:50.699 power to him. 999 00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:54.239 I think it's, you know, did a spectacular job, but it was just 1000 00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:57.719 there's a certain saminess that you get in the RTD era, which is 1001 00:48:57.719 --> 00:48:59.579 as you say, is necessary and important for all this host of 1002 00:48:59.579 --> 00:48:59.940 reasons. 1003 00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:01.500 Great, fine, wonderful. 1004 00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:03.599 Thank God that's over, was my response. 1005 00:49:03.659 --> 00:49:05.219 Well, it's Doctor Who, isn't it? 1006 00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:08.280 I mean, Doctor Who, there is no right approach or wrong approach. 1007 00:49:08.340 --> 00:49:13.019 And so Russell's version stands right alongside Stevens version 1008 00:49:13.019 --> 00:49:16.679 and they're both legitimate ways of doing Doctor Who. 1009 00:49:16.739 --> 00:49:20.579 It's a little bit like going from the Letts era to the Hinchcliffe 1010 00:49:20.579 --> 00:49:20.880 era. 1011 00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:21.239 Exactly. 1012 00:49:21.300 --> 00:49:21.659 Yeah. 1013 00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:26.099 You know, the Let's era is cosy, is set in a coherent world. 1014 00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:28.380 There are lots of characters. 1015 00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:31.139 Perhaps they're not quite as well drawn as the ones in the RTD 1016 00:49:31.139 --> 00:49:31.559 era. 1017 00:49:31.619 --> 00:49:33.360 Oh, I don't know about that. 1018 00:49:33.420 --> 00:49:34.920 Corporal Bell. 1019 00:49:35.460 --> 00:49:39.360 Then we get the Hinge Cliffera, and suddenly all that falls away 1020 00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:42.239 and the universe is now bigger. 1021 00:49:42.300 --> 00:49:45.059 I think the mistake Doctor Who makes when it makes it is being the 1022 00:49:45.059 --> 00:49:45.719 same for too long. 1023 00:49:45.780 --> 00:49:46.440 Right. 1024 00:49:46.500 --> 00:49:47.159 Yeah, yeah. 1025 00:49:59.219 --> 00:50:02.219 Let's finish off by talking about the cliffhanger. 1026 00:50:02.280 --> 00:50:10.260 I think that this has to be very high up in the, you know, hit 1027 00:50:10.260 --> 00:50:14.460 parade of all-time great cliffhangers in Doctor Who history. 1028 00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:16.199 It's superb. 1029 00:50:16.260 --> 00:50:18.300 And it builds perfectly. 1030 00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:20.460 From about the 3 minute mark out. 1031 00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:22.739 You know that it's building to a cliffhanger. 1032 00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:23.519 You can feel it on screen. 1033 00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:31.380 And it uses that, um, the style of dialogue that you were, I think 1034 00:50:31.380 --> 00:50:36.840 you were talking about earlier, Simon, um, that Matt Smith is just 1035 00:50:36.840 --> 00:50:41.400 talking a 1000000 miles an hour and he, he's basically saying 1036 00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:44.639 don't, don't you cross me, you know, like you've made a huge 1037 00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:45.360 mistake. 1038 00:50:45.420 --> 00:50:46.079 It fantastic. 1039 00:50:46.139 --> 00:50:49.619 It's basically all world word peril. 1040 00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:50.159 Yeah. 1041 00:50:50.219 --> 00:50:56.159 But it's him going into that cliffhanger with power, not having 1042 00:50:56.159 --> 00:50:57.360 the power taken away from him. 1043 00:50:57.420 --> 00:51:02.400 It inverts the traditional cliffhanger of I'm being menaced. 1044 00:51:02.460 --> 00:51:04.679 He's been menaced and now he's taking back control. 1045 00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:05.820 That's right. 1046 00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:08.699 And the tension rises with the doctor's simmering anger. 1047 00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:10.739 That's why you know it's building a cliffhanger. 1048 00:51:10.739 --> 00:51:13.019 Little cartoon Graham Norton comes along and ruins it all. 1049 00:51:13.079 --> 00:51:18.539 Do you know, I was at an Olympiad, a fan Olympiad in Britain, and 1050 00:51:18.539 --> 00:51:21.719 we all watched this episode on the Saturday night after it. 1051 00:51:21.719 --> 00:51:24.840 And I think it was Gary Gillett who said that when the little 1052 00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:28.559 cartoon Graham Norton came on over the doctor's final speech. 1053 00:51:28.619 --> 00:51:32.880 He'd never heard such a rumbling roar of resentment from a crowd 1054 00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:33.179 of people. 1055 00:51:33.300 --> 00:51:37.679 Graham Norton just can't stop interrupting Doctor Who, can he? 1056 00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:38.579 It's a thing. 1057 00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:40.980 Oh, this was just because he was on next one. 1058 00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:41.639 That's right. 1059 00:51:41.699 --> 00:51:43.440 And so it's a little animated dancing. 1060 00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:46.679 They started a few minutes early before the credits. started about 1061 00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:47.400 20 seconds earlier. 1062 00:51:47.460 --> 00:51:50.280 It should have come up over the end credits and like someone made 1063 00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:53.280 a mistake and it pops up over Matt Smith's mouth. 1064 00:51:53.340 --> 00:51:56.039 His incredible hero speech. 1065 00:51:56.099 --> 00:51:57.900 Like, this is his Aristea. 1066 00:51:57.960 --> 00:51:59.340 This is absolutely brilliant. 1067 00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:02.340 You see, there's a reason why I waited for the ABC transmission. 1068 00:52:04.019 --> 00:52:06.360 I don't think I ever saw that. 1069 00:52:06.420 --> 00:52:09.780 Maybe I had mysterious access to a mysterious copy. 1070 00:52:09.780 --> 00:52:12.300 BBC. 3 repeats or something. 1071 00:52:12.300 --> 00:52:15.420 And people wonder why broadcast television is dying. sure someone 1072 00:52:15.420 --> 00:52:16.440 just mentioned it to you. 1073 00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:17.760 That's right. 1074 00:52:17.820 --> 00:52:23.699 I think that the closest parallel to this is the end of Bad Wolf 1075 00:52:23.699 --> 00:52:28.380 where the doctor announces to Rose that he's coming to rescue 1076 00:52:28.380 --> 00:52:28.920 her. 1077 00:52:28.980 --> 00:52:31.619 And so this isn't us in peril. 1078 00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:35.820 This isn't us discovering a new thing about the plot. 1079 00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:41.159 This is the doctor declaring his mission to solve the problem. 1080 00:52:41.219 --> 00:52:42.780 Mission statement for the next episode. 1081 00:52:42.900 --> 00:52:47.519 Yeah, yeah, but it also functions just this early on in his 4th 1082 00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:51.480 episode as a very clear kind of mission statement for the doctor 1083 00:52:51.480 --> 00:52:52.199 as a whole. 1084 00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:56.760 I mean, unquestionably, it's a great cliffhanger just because it's 1085 00:52:56.760 --> 00:52:58.380 not sort of die, doctor die. 1086 00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:05.880 But I have not really... trying to think of a really good 1087 00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:09.900 cliffhanger in the in the modern era when there have been them and 1088 00:53:09.900 --> 00:53:12.000 I don't think this is one of them, I confess. 1089 00:53:12.059 --> 00:53:13.079 I think it's really great. 1090 00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:17.820 I think it's the, it's the, it's a cliffhanger doing something 1091 00:53:17.820 --> 00:53:18.179 different. 1092 00:53:18.239 --> 00:53:23.579 My, my previous uh, favourite cliffhanger is uh, Happiness Patrol 1093 00:53:23.579 --> 00:53:28.320 episode two, uh, which is OD doesn't, doesn't look like Daphne S 1094 00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:29.940 went down too well now, does it? 1095 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:35.760 Because that is some mysterious impending peril and the doctor 1096 00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:36.539 thinking about it. 1097 00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:38.340 And that's an accidental cliffhanger. 1098 00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:41.039 And then the zoom in on Ace, like, she's next. 1099 00:53:41.099 --> 00:53:41.820 Yeah, yeah. 1100 00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:45.420 And she's sort of trapped in a poster, so she can't actually do 1101 00:53:45.420 --> 00:53:45.780 anything. 1102 00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:48.000 When are we doing the happiness patrol? 1103 00:53:48.059 --> 00:53:50.579 We should have done that at some point. at some point. 1104 00:53:50.639 --> 00:53:56.159 It's like the cliffhanger is a sensible spot to stop the episode 1105 00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:59.820 now and so we can continue the story later rather than it being a 1106 00:53:59.820 --> 00:54:04.320 completely, you know, invented moment of peril so that you can 1107 00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:06.000 stop the episode and continue next week. 1108 00:54:06.059 --> 00:54:08.760 There's a moment of peril, though, because there's no way out. 1109 00:54:08.820 --> 00:54:12.239 They're surrounded by angels that are coming to get them. 1110 00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:16.019 You know, the soldiers are sort of desperately looking at them to 1111 00:54:16.019 --> 00:54:17.219 prevent them from coming. 1112 00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:18.960 There's nowhere for them to go. 1113 00:54:19.019 --> 00:54:22.199 And so it is, yes, in peril. 1114 00:54:22.260 --> 00:54:26.340 But what Moffatt knows is that we know that the doctor's going to 1115 00:54:26.340 --> 00:54:27.900 get out of the peril. 1116 00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:32.400 And so he gives the doctor a speech, and then an action, and the 1117 00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:36.059 action is super compelling as well, because it's the doctor 1118 00:54:36.059 --> 00:54:40.139 shooting a gun at something, and then we cut to something that's 1119 00:54:40.139 --> 00:54:41.340 completely incomprehensible. 1120 00:54:41.400 --> 00:54:42.300 Do you know what I mean? 1121 00:54:42.360 --> 00:54:46.139 It's the gravity globe maybe blowing up, but we don't really know 1122 00:54:46.139 --> 00:54:47.099 what's happening. 1123 00:54:47.159 --> 00:54:54.539 And it allows that classic Moffat. device where he flips the 1124 00:54:54.539 --> 00:54:57.059 entire story on its head in the next episode. 1125 00:54:57.119 --> 00:54:57.900 That's right. 1126 00:54:57.960 --> 00:54:59.880 Moffat uses cliffhanger as a pivot in the story. 1127 00:54:59.940 --> 00:55:00.960 Yeah, yeah. 1128 00:55:01.019 --> 00:55:03.599 Well, that's quite common, I think, in the modern year of the show 1129 00:55:03.599 --> 00:55:05.940 the 1st episode focusses on the one thing the 2nd episode focusses 1130 00:55:05.940 --> 00:55:06.420 on the next. 1131 00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:08.099 Oh, it's Moffat that really introduces that. 1132 00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:12.119 Russell does it to an extent in Bad Wolf, but that's more 1133 00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:13.920 thematically kind of tied together. 1134 00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:16.860 I think Moffat does it in the library 2 parter and then thinks 1135 00:55:16.860 --> 00:55:17.579 that worked. 1136 00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:18.539 That's a good one. 1137 00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:21.179 I mean, he sets it in a completely different place and possibly 1138 00:55:21.179 --> 00:55:22.139 even later. 1139 00:55:22.199 --> 00:55:23.039 That's right. 1140 00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:25.199 The thing about the peril, which I agree with. 1141 00:55:25.260 --> 00:55:29.699 But the thing that softens it in that beautiful way is when he 1142 00:55:29.699 --> 00:55:33.179 asks River, do you trust me and she just says, always. 1143 00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:36.000 And it's so, yes, it's such a warm feeling. 1144 00:55:36.059 --> 00:55:37.320 Yeah, yeah. 1145 00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:39.179 But I mean, we trust the doctor. 1146 00:55:39.239 --> 00:55:40.739 We know he's going to get out of the peril. 1147 00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:43.980 So having him declare that he's going to do that. doesn't blunt it 1148 00:55:43.980 --> 00:55:44.639 in any way. 1149 00:55:44.760 --> 00:55:46.380 It just gives him a massive hero moment. 1150 00:55:46.500 --> 00:55:48.599 Yeah, I mean, I suppose when I'm talking about the, there's a lack 1151 00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:51.360 of that, the full peril is that there isn't like, you know, the 1152 00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:53.639 army standing, you know, centimetres away from them with guns at 1153 00:55:53.639 --> 00:55:56.639 the heads where it's any resolution's just going to be dumb. 1154 00:55:56.699 --> 00:55:57.179 Yeah. 1155 00:55:57.179 --> 00:55:57.900 That's what I meant. 1156 00:55:57.960 --> 00:55:59.639 You know, Moffat loves the arc in space. 1157 00:55:59.699 --> 00:56:03.059 And I think he spends a fair proportion of this season looking to 1158 00:56:03.059 --> 00:56:05.820 give the doctor an indomitable moment, and this is one of them. 1159 00:56:05.880 --> 00:56:09.420 And then he repeats a similar kind of speech. 1160 00:56:09.480 --> 00:56:12.360 He goes, oh, wow, Matt Smith can do these kind of speeches. 1161 00:56:12.420 --> 00:56:17.760 So he gives him a speech in his 1st story that's kind of similar 1162 00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:24.179 in the sort of statement of who I am, what my what my purpose is 1163 00:56:24.179 --> 00:56:26.880 then and then at the end of the season you get another one as well 1164 00:56:26.940 --> 00:56:27.420 right. 1165 00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:29.099 The Pandora opens a bit. 1166 00:56:29.159 --> 00:56:30.119 Stonehenge. 1167 00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:30.420 Yeah. 1168 00:56:57.480 --> 00:56:59.820 Well, then, listen, that's all we have time for this week. 1169 00:56:59.880 --> 00:57:02.940 We'll be back next week for another meeting of the Adam and Matt 1170 00:57:02.940 --> 00:57:07.260 Smith Appreciation Society, with this story's exciting conclusion 1171 00:57:07.260 --> 00:57:08.460 flesh and stone. 1172 00:57:09.119 --> 00:57:12.840 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts 1173 00:57:12.840 --> 00:57:15.300 and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook 1174 00:57:15.300 --> 00:57:20.699 at FTE podcast on Twitter and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety 1175 00:57:19.019 --> 00:57:24.119 com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger and 1176 00:57:24.119 --> 00:57:25.260 Jody into Terror. 1177 00:57:25.559 --> 00:57:30.780 Until next time, may you find a nice app plan to settle down with 1178 00:57:30.780 --> 00:57:31.619 someday soon. 1179 00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:34.800 I'm sure you'll both make a lovely throuple. 1180 00:57:34.860 --> 00:57:37.380 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 1181 00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:38.579 Ta-ta. 1182 00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:39.059 Good night. 1183 00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:39.719 See you soon. 1184 00:57:42.780 --> 00:57:45.599 That was Flight 3 Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter 1185 00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:48.539 Griffith, Simon Moore and James Selwood, theme arrangement by 1186 00:57:48.539 --> 00:57:49.440 Cameron Lamb. 1187 00:57:49.500 --> 00:57:52.860 This episode, implacable and completely incomprehensible, was 1188 00:57:52.860 --> 00:57:56.219 recorded on the 6th of February 2021 and released on the 4th of 1189 00:57:56.219 --> 00:57:56.519 April. 1190 00:57:57.840 --> 00:58:01.380 So any alien monsters listening, the list of things you should 1191 00:58:01.380 --> 00:58:05.159 never put into a trap also includes a clearly visible door, a 1192 00:58:05.159 --> 00:58:09.780 control mode to the entire spaceship, the key, a massive gun, an 1193 00:58:09.780 --> 00:58:13.860 interplanetary missile, an army of robot mummies, and that creepy 1194 00:58:13.860 --> 00:58:16.380 stage hand who won't stop fondling your buttocks. 1195 00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:22.619 So, let's talk about the structure of the episode as a whole 1196 00:58:22.619 --> 00:58:27.539 because I actually think it's surprisingly straightforward for a 1197 00:58:27.539 --> 00:58:28.739 Moffat story. 1198 00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:30.119 Oh yes. 1199 00:58:30.179 --> 00:58:34.320 I think, oh, well, sorry, did I trade on that? 1200 00:58:34.380 --> 00:58:36.539 Did I trade on that? 1201 00:58:36.599 --> 00:58:38.579 No, no, no, no. 1202 00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:41.099 Because I can say, no, I'm about to say something. can you do that 1203 00:58:41.099 --> 00:58:41.280 again? 1204 00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:46.260 Simon, was your, Oh yes, a quote from the Silurians. 1205 00:58:46.320 --> 00:58:47.099 Oh yes. 1206 00:58:47.159 --> 00:58:48.900 Oh, yes, yes. 1207 00:58:50.219 --> 00:58:53.639 Because I said, yes, I said, yes, the top V, sorry. 1208 00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:54.239 No, that's right. 1209 00:58:54.360 --> 00:58:55.079 I wasn't going to go. 1210 00:58:55.139 --> 00:58:58.320 I was waiting to throw it for someone to... 1211 00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:02.280 So let's talk about the structure of the story because I do think 1212 00:59:02.280 --> 00:59:02.648 it...