WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 17:44:25

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Hello, dear listen, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast, which can't remember your name mere

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minutes after we were 1st introduced.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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I'm Peter.

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And I'm Simon.

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Well, this week we're talking about an episode in which our heroes

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spend half an hour running away from statues, which would be

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surprising if exactly the same thing hadn't happened last week as

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well.

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Still, it's a pretty riveting half an hour, as you'll soon

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discover when we discuss flesh and stone.

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You know, one thing that we failed to mention last week is how

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well this is directed and how solid the production is.

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It's amazing.

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Do you know I wrote about this story for the Doctor Who magazine

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our 1st 50 Years Special, where we compiled the big survey.

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That's a flex.

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And when I wrote about it, I was dissuaded by a certain DWM ex

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editor from saying that I think this is the most confident

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production that Doc 2 has ever mounted, but I stand by that.

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It is.

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I think maybe there might be a production or 2 later on, maybe

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world enough and time in the Doctor Falls, which are better all

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round productions, but this is amazing in its cohesiveness.

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And it looks like it's had the longest and most in-depth tone

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meeting in the world.

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It's interesting you say that because Adam Smith hated making the

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story, by all accounts, he found the weeping angels incredibly

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difficult to shoot because, you know, their people in costumes

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like he found it, like he found it so frustrating to try and shoot

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them in a way where you couldn't see them moving.

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And, I mean, the end result is brilliant, but it was apparently

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very painful.

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Well, it's the James Cameron experiences.

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No, you don't have to have a lot of fun shooting something for it

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to be a brilliant end.

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Tase Avengersani versus twin dilemma, I seem to recall.

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Correct.

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Sparkle.

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I think in Blink, they very frequently had to kind of just pause

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things.

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There were slight movements with the people in costume.

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And they had to freeze the frame.

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Yeah, yeah.

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You'll freeze the part of the frame.

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I mean, there's all that sort of magic they can do, but

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nevertheless, even so, despite that magic, what a spectacular job

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that those women did dressed up as the angels not moving.

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I mean, at no point do I think, except when their heads are

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turning when Amy's fallen on the ground.

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At no point do I think that these are not statues?

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Yeah, and like kudos to the make-up artists, like the effects

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because that's all paint.

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It's not them, like their arms are their arms.

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They're not in sort of fibreglass shells or anything like that.

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They painted their arms for 3.5 , 4 hours every day to get that

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effect.

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2 AM makeup calls kind of thing.

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To use a slightly wankery term, the Mise on the Seine in these

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episodes is incredible.

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It just kind of slightly wanky.

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You know me, James.

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I think everything fits together so well, including the effects.

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I mean, we've had good effects in the past in New Doctor Who, but

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there's some like photorealistic about the effects on this episode

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and the way that they, the way that they fit into the live action

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which is incredible.

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Even minor things like the transporter effect from last episode

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and at the end of this episode where the soldiers teleport down to

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the planet, has done with this incredible swirling dust effect

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just in the background with it's incredible.

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Interesting, but not dominant.

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Yes, exactly.

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The Wicked Witch of the West to appear.

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Well, yes.

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And I mean, again, sorry to talk about last episode, but those

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upper levels of the maze of the dead, which look like they're part

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of the location.

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They fit so well into the scenes.

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The only thing, I suppose, if you want to be really, really, really

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nitpicky, and it's not really that important, but where you do get

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those shots of Amy's feet where she's trudging through the forest

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it does look like potting mix.

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Like it's the soil is too rich. rather than it being a kind of a

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natural.

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It's that thing of it looks like a forest in a studio rather than

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a forest in a forest.

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It is a real forest.

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It is a real forest. you're kidding me.

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It's puzzlewood.

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Right.

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It's actually a real location.

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Well, that's the richness of the English earth for you.

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Very recent...

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The reason you think it might be a set is that it's backlit so

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well.

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Ah, right.

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At the risk of repeating myself from a previous episode that I did

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Planet of the Dead, about spectacle.

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And I'm not opposed to spectacle at all, but I think why this

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story does it so well is that it's not about the spectacle.

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Everything looks spectacular and fantastic.

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But that's not the reason you're watching it.

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It's casually so.

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And I think that's why, you know, doctor is not about the

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spectacle.

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It's about the story, but in the modern era, of course, it all

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needs to be made in a spectacular way.

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And I think that's the emphasis that I'm trying to heat on and I

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think this hits on it perfectly.

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The Cliffhanger resolution has one of the most surprising effect

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shots that we've ever had, which is that unbelievable pullback

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where, you know, we don't know what the doctor's plan is at the

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Cliffhanger.

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And then when we come back, we don't actually see the cliffhanger

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again, we just have the last time on Doctor Who, then the opening

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credits, and then suddenly we're standing on a different surface.

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The doctor claims we're in exactly the same place, but Amy doesn't

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know what it is.

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And then we pull back and the camera does a 180.

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And so it is literally the story turns upside down.

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And that shot has not only the surface that they're standing on

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which represents the nose cone of the Byzantium, it has the cave

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that they were in, and you can see the stairs and things that

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they've been climbing up.

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And it's a thing that Russell does as well, which is giving a

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story verticality, because the studio floor is flat, because the

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ground is flat.

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This story, both halves of it are going up and the, the flip, you

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know, the, the big change between episodes is this sort of sudden

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change in their points of view.

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And I think that that shot, which is a deliberately spectacular

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effect shot, not a subtle sort of background one, which you might

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not notice.

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But it's telling the story.

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Totally in service to the story.

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Yeah, exactly. what I mean.

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And the other most spectacular effect shot, which is at the end

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which has just all of those angels falling into the crack.

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Again, I just think is remarkable looking.

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It looked great when they did it in Army of Ghosts, Jimsday as

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well.

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But one of the reasons why that shot, the 180, the spinning out

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and around, looks so good is the detail.

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They've thought about it all.

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And also when the doctor actually gets into the nose cone and, you

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know, all the gravity's the other way, it's actually so simply

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done and so effectively casually brilliant.

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Without some, yeah, casually brilliant.

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But, you know, thank goodness it wasn't some stupid kind of wobbly

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thing there. and he kind of all floats around and then he's

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standing upright.

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Like you don't actually see the instant where you flip the

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garrity.

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And that's why I think it's just it's just nice.

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And, of course, the gravity, which is the thing that resolves the

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cliffhanger and the very 1st thing that we're playing with is the

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thing that resolves the story.

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And so it's set up straight away.

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So there's shenanigans about gravity and then he pays it off by

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making that the way that they resolve the plot.

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And you know, good direction in modern Doctor Who is not just

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about being clever with your camera work.

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It's also about editing.

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And I think that's something which is often slightly lacking in

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Doc 2 and in a lot of mid-budget television as well.

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Graham Harper gets the rhythm right in scenes and shots, and I

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think maybe later, Rachel Talele will as well.

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But here, Adam Smith, especially when you look at scenes like when

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they're in the spaceship corridor and the lights are going out and

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the angels are at the end and it's all just illuminated by gunfire

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the editing on that is whip smart and, you know, is responsible

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for all attention in that scene.

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Yes, it's not just good shot choices.

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It's not just getting the good performances.

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It needs to be edited in such a way that is engaging, but also you

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know what's going on.

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It's covered.

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You know that this is happening after that and this person's

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looking in that direction and talking to that person.

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Sometimes you're right.

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I think in a lot of sort of mid-range modern television or mid

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range television generally.

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Sometimes it's a bit sloppy.

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That's right And here it's absolutely crucial to get the spatial

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relationships between everything right because that's entirely how

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the plot resolves itself.

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And so we're going what looks like uphill.

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I mean, it looks like that hatch is opening into a well that you

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could plummet all the way down.

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And there's even dialogue about that.

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And of course, it's not, but it needs to be for the resolution of

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the story to work.

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It's tremendous.

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You know, the resolution story was not achieved by building that

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set and having them hang off.

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It was a wind machine and wires pulling their legs off the

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ground.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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It's a good thing they didn't fall and might have gone all the way

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down into the swimming pool.

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That scene in the control room, if we're going chronologically

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through the story, Matt entirely inhabits the character, in that

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moment, that you've just had moments of incredible drama and

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tension, and he just slumps into that chair in the middle, casually

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puts his feet up and starts talking to Angel Bob, and you think

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you've nailed this character, and this might be, what, 2 weeks

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after those scenes on the beach, and he's just there.

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He's got sort of the best of Tom Baker and David Tennant, all the

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good things that they brought to the role, and they just add

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something else where he can change on a dime.

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It's incredible.

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It's a changing on the dime that I think is makes him very

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powerful.

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See, my favourite thing is how he manages to convey anger or

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menace without the sort of David Tennant teeth acting in a very

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very low key way.

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And the fact that he's normally playing at that register that

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makes it so shocking when he actually does shout.

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It makes his anger seem righteous.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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We already talked about it in the beast below where that nobody

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human has anything to say to me today, which is absolutely

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terrifying, partly because it's directed at Amy.

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But here, towards the end of the episode, and he's shouting at

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River and he's sort of hugely, hugely stressed.

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I just think it's incredibly good.

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And she, her reaction to it is sort of like properly taken aback.

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He's really scary when he's actually angry, but also he's written

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with black humour.

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And it's something which Doctor Who hardly ever does, Tom Baker

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gets it.

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Like, you know, the line about Auntie Vanessa, have you seen her?

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Well, a little of her.

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And so Matt gets lines in the story, which are very dark, like

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when he says to Angel Bob, how's life?

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Sorry, bad subject.

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And I'd love lines like that.

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They're just thrown away.

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Also, the sort of using sort of humour to diffuse the tension, like

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not just in a scene, but like on an emotional level to the

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character, when Amy is lying on the ground in the forest and she's

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got 12nd left to live and she's scared and he says, oh, you're

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dying. you dying.

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Shut up.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

251
00:12:44.580 --> 00:12:50.220
So we soon see that there's this incredible forest in the middle

252
00:12:50.220 --> 00:12:51.360
of the spaceship.

253
00:12:51.419 --> 00:12:53.340
It's an oxygen factory.

254
00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:54.419
Yes it's a forest.

255
00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:57.480
But isn't that a clever bottle on a spaceship in a maze?

256
00:12:57.600 --> 00:12:58.559
I love that line.

257
00:12:58.620 --> 00:13:02.279
Have I impressed you yet, Amy Pond?

258
00:13:02.340 --> 00:13:03.179
It's so good.

259
00:13:03.299 --> 00:13:07.379
But isn't it a very clever way as well of changing the setting?

260
00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:11.580
Without it being, 0 my god, more caves, more spaceship corridors.

261
00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:13.799
We're going to go into forest now, and yet it's all entirely

262
00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:16.379
consistent, and it's fairy tale.

263
00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:18.720
Fairy tales take place in the forest.

264
00:13:18.779 --> 00:13:23.700
And the thing that prevents this from being aliens is that the

265
00:13:23.700 --> 00:13:28.799
villains are statues of angels and Amy has to close her eyes in

266
00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:31.679
order to avoid getting attacked and sort of walk through a

267
00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:31.980
forest.

268
00:13:32.100 --> 00:13:33.419
They still have terrible teeth.

269
00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:34.799
So it's still aliens.

270
00:13:34.860 --> 00:13:38.039
But it's lovely that she has to walk through the forest as if she

271
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:38.460
can see.

272
00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:43.860
So it's like the angels don't freeze because there's something

273
00:13:43.860 --> 00:13:46.259
coming out of your eyes that stops them from moving.

274
00:13:46.379 --> 00:13:48.659
They can see them.

275
00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:50.159
And that's actually very, very interesting.

276
00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:55.379
Yeah, I think that there is that sort of, you know, the observer

277
00:13:55.379 --> 00:13:55.740
effect.

278
00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:58.259
You can't observe something without changing what you're

279
00:13:58.259 --> 00:13:58.620
observing.

280
00:13:58.679 --> 00:13:59.580
Yeah, that's right.

281
00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:02.279
So I think it is initially that, and there is some dialogue there

282
00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:05.879
saying, oh, they're busy or preoccupied or scared, and so they're

283
00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:08.700
just going to assume that you can see them so act like you can.

284
00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:11.519
Do you think if a tree fell in that forest that it wouldn't have

285
00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:12.779
happened because no one could see it?

286
00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:17.879
No, it didn't happen because the crack ate it. true.

287
00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:20.279
And that's the other thing here too.

288
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.419
We've seen the crack every episode since the 11th hour.

289
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:25.320
It's appeared.

290
00:14:25.379 --> 00:14:29.039
And this is the 1st time that Amy and the doctor see it.

291
00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:32.279
So in that control room, we sort of see it up there.

292
00:14:32.340 --> 00:14:36.960
We know it's been pursuing them and that it's been present in

293
00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:39.539
every location where they've appeared.

294
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:42.059
But now we actually see that.

295
00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:46.559
And so this, even though it's not an arc story in any sort of

296
00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:51.600
proper sense, the arc intrudes in this story and actually becomes

297
00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:53.279
very important to its resolution.

298
00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:58.139
I love that word you used intrudes because it's very early on in a

299
00:14:58.139 --> 00:15:01.259
typical season for the arc story to become quite prevalent.

300
00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:04.080
And Moffatt just, there's that word again.

301
00:15:04.139 --> 00:15:06.299
He's just clever in the way that he introduces it.

302
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:09.240
It becomes intrinsic to this story and yet doesn't feel like it's

303
00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:10.200
not self-contained.

304
00:15:10.259 --> 00:15:14.700
And you've also had 4 years of sort of these arcs which are kind

305
00:15:14.700 --> 00:15:18.779
of conceptual or floating around in the background and hinted out

306
00:15:18.779 --> 00:15:21.779
and you don't really get to them until episode like 11.

307
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:25.980
And this is, well, you think that the arc is going to kind of

308
00:15:25.980 --> 00:15:30.779
float around and eventually pop up instead of episode 910 and it

309
00:15:30.779 --> 00:15:32.039
pivots the season.

310
00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:35.519
Yeah. and resolves the end of the story.

311
00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:40.980
I think it's a little bit like, so my previous favourite arc is

312
00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:45.960
the series 3 arc where the master travels back in time to sort of

313
00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:50.039
towards the end of series 2 and then he's sort of there throughout

314
00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:50.700
series three.

315
00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:52.740
That's funny because mine was the arc.

316
00:15:55.019 --> 00:16:00.600
And that does intrude in the Lazarus experiment.

317
00:16:00.659 --> 00:16:04.259
So we do actually get the arc affecting the story and the Lazarus

318
00:16:04.259 --> 00:16:04.740
experiment.

319
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:09.120
But it's nothing like this and the arc is nothing like any arc

320
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:09.960
that's happened before.

321
00:16:10.019 --> 00:16:15.120
And initially it is just a shape and some of it sort of doesn't

322
00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:15.720
make any sense.

323
00:16:15.779 --> 00:16:18.419
I don't know whether we're supposed to understand that, you know

324
00:16:18.419 --> 00:16:21.720
for instance, Craig and Daisy Haggart are going to be eaten alive

325
00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:25.320
by the quick in their wall, you know, after the doctor leaves

326
00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:26.340
clearly that doesn't happen.

327
00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:29.100
So it's not quite clear what's happening.

328
00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:31.019
We just end on his this shape again.

329
00:16:31.139 --> 00:16:33.960
They were quite grateful to have the crack because it ate the damp

330
00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:34.620
spot.

331
00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:41.940
You know, the crack was inspired by a crack in Moffatt, one of

332
00:16:41.940 --> 00:16:43.259
Moffatt's son's walls.

333
00:16:43.379 --> 00:16:47.279
He noticed this sort of crooked smile crack in the wall.

334
00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:50.700
Oh, it sounds like about the design of that. crack. looks quite

335
00:16:50.700 --> 00:16:51.179
ominous.

336
00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:55.019
But he didn't tell his son that looked like a smile because he

337
00:16:55.019 --> 00:16:56.159
wanted him to be able to sleep again.

338
00:16:56.460 --> 00:17:00.480
Well, I mean, the crack does look like a scary mouth and it's got

339
00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:01.620
jagged edges and stuff.

340
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:02.700
And it eats things.

341
00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:03.419
Yeah, yeah.

342
00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:04.740
And it eats things. absolutely.

343
00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:09.000
When it opens and closes in the 11th hour, it looks like a mouth.

344
00:17:09.059 --> 00:17:15.420
And so here having it kind of appear in the forest and having it

345
00:17:15.420 --> 00:17:16.859
eat people up.

346
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:19.740
It does actually become quite scary.

347
00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:24.119
And this is the 1st time that the doctor kind of recognises what

348
00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:24.599
it is.

349
00:17:24.660 --> 00:17:25.859
It's the end of the universe.

350
00:17:26.220 --> 00:17:29.819
There's a key difference too, though, the way Moffatt does the

351
00:17:29.819 --> 00:17:33.180
arcs versus RTD in that Moffatt starts them from the very

352
00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:33.539
beginning.

353
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:37.079
Like the crack in the wall is kind of what the 11th hour is all

354
00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:37.259
about.

355
00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:41.819
It's not like the others, which just gradually appear and dropped

356
00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:43.980
in as kind of teases throughout the season.

357
00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:47.220
I have to say that if you're going to do an arc, and I'm not a

358
00:17:47.220 --> 00:17:49.259
huge fan of them by and large, but if you're going to do them, I

359
00:17:49.259 --> 00:17:51.720
think this is a much better way to do it.

360
00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:55.200
It feels more real rather than kind of stitched on.

361
00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:58.079
Yeah, well, I mean, Bad Wolf, you know, like there's a clever

362
00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:01.799
reason why the word's Bad Wolf keep appearing through series one

363
00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:02.940
and that's all sort of fine.

364
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.759
But in practice, what we get is just people repeating a word.

365
00:18:05.819 --> 00:18:07.619
So that's not all that exciting.

366
00:18:07.859 --> 00:18:10.440
Yes, it is a repeated meme.

367
00:18:10.500 --> 00:18:15.359
Whereas here, it resolves episode five.

368
00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:21.660
It plays a huge role at the end of the Silurian 2 parter, and then

369
00:18:21.660 --> 00:18:24.240
we find out something about it in the finale.

370
00:18:24.299 --> 00:18:29.940
So it's always visible and we learn more about it before we

371
00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:31.500
actually end up confronting it at the end.

372
00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:35.279
There's a bit of a missed opportunity in this season to rip off a

373
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:38.160
Star Trek episode, which sort of briefly happens when, you know

374
00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:39.660
Amy's sitting there with her eyes closed.

375
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:41.099
The TNG episode.

376
00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:43.680
Remember Me, where, you know, Beverly's trapped in a kind of an

377
00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:45.299
Alton universe, which is gradually contracting.

378
00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:47.819
You could have done a whole episode, like one of the kind of

379
00:18:47.819 --> 00:18:51.180
doctor light type episodes where gradually everyone around them is

380
00:18:51.180 --> 00:18:52.019
disappearing.

381
00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:54.059
There's something wonderful about who are you talking about?

382
00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:55.259
No, they were never here.

383
00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:56.039
What's that?

384
00:18:56.099 --> 00:18:57.480
It's actually really, really good.

385
00:18:57.539 --> 00:19:00.720
That is one of the best TNG episodes ever.

386
00:19:00.779 --> 00:19:01.500
I love that episode.

387
00:19:01.619 --> 00:19:04.200
And I know it would have been a ripoff, but Doctor Who rips stuff

388
00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:04.680
off all the time.

389
00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:08.519
And you do, for that, sort of, 3 or 4 minutes when Amy's realising

390
00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:09.779
that everybody's disappearing.

391
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.720
Yeah, and the idea of being left alone in the world is a very

392
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:13.680
primal fear.

393
00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:19.019
It's what I am legend is based on that you're the last person.

394
00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:21.299
There's no one to help you and you're totally alone.

395
00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:25.019
It's also the dark forest. you know, like the forest is where

396
00:19:25.019 --> 00:19:26.880
fairy tales happen.

397
00:19:26.940 --> 00:19:30.059
This is a dark forest where she's defenceless and people are

398
00:19:30.059 --> 00:19:31.619
leaving and disappearing.

399
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:35.519
And again, that disappearing thing, like it, science fiction

400
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:35.819
whatever.

401
00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:37.559
It's magic, isn't it?

402
00:19:37.619 --> 00:19:43.079
And already we're introducing the theme of memory of forgetting

403
00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:47.039
and remembering, which resolves the entire series at the very end

404
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:49.319
and which is hugely important all the way through.

405
00:19:49.380 --> 00:19:51.059
Dry run for the silence.

406
00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:52.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

407
00:19:52.740 --> 00:19:54.299
The silence do the same thing.

408
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:56.759
And, you know, day of the doctor where the guy turns up to work

409
00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:00.059
and he thinks it's his 1st day because he can't sort of remember

410
00:20:00.059 --> 00:20:03.180
it because they've got those...

411
00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:04.319
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

412
00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:08.940
I mean, we even had it in The Beast Below, where Amy literally

413
00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:09.839
votes to forget.

414
00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:14.819
And this episode, the focus shifts from the doctor to Amy.

415
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:16.259
So the episode's about Amy.

416
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:19.259
And I think it's so good for her and it's so good for Karen, who

417
00:20:19.259 --> 00:20:20.880
really pulls it off.

418
00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:26.039
So making Amy blind is a very Sarah Jane thing, and I don't just

419
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:27.660
mean because of the brain of Morpius.

420
00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:31.740
It allows her to be vulnerable but brave at the same time and

421
00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:35.759
that's the DNA of the archetypal Doctor Who companion.

422
00:20:35.819 --> 00:20:37.440
And so Moffat zeros in on that.

423
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:42.900
I really like too, the acting that she's given the opportunity to

424
00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:45.000
do when she's counting down.

425
00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:48.059
And it's so cleverly done.

426
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:49.259
Another casually brilliant thing.

427
00:20:49.259 --> 00:20:54.539
So good because it is scary and ominous, and we discover the

428
00:20:54.539 --> 00:20:57.660
angels are making her do it because it's scary and ominous.

429
00:20:57.720 --> 00:20:58.200
Yes.

430
00:20:58.259 --> 00:21:02.700
But the way it works is someone will mention a number in dialogue

431
00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:06.299
like Matt or River will say a number and then... something that

432
00:21:06.299 --> 00:21:06.960
sounds like a number.

433
00:21:07.019 --> 00:21:07.740
Yeah, yeah.

434
00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:08.339
And she'll say it.

435
00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:11.220
And then there's that wonderful line where she says no, she says

436
00:21:11.220 --> 00:21:12.900
I'm five.

437
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:14.940
No, no, no, I'm fine.

438
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:15.480
That's right.

439
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:16.259
I'm fine.

440
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:20.039
And she kind of realises it, which she hasn't before, and she's

441
00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:22.079
scared, but she's also trying to hide it.

442
00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:26.099
I think she's incredibly good in this episode.

443
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:26.819
Yeah.

444
00:21:26.819 --> 00:21:28.740
She carries this episode, I think.

445
00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:33.900
The scene where she falls over in the forest, she can't find the

446
00:21:33.900 --> 00:21:34.980
communicator.

447
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:41.160
You've had in dialogue earlier that like the transmat is kaput.

448
00:21:41.220 --> 00:21:42.839
There's no way of saving her.

449
00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:44.819
And then she falls over.

450
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:46.859
And she's blind.

451
00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:48.059
She can't open eyes.

452
00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:48.720
She going to die.

453
00:21:48.779 --> 00:21:54.900
And the angels start turning their heads and the fear that she has

454
00:21:54.900 --> 00:21:55.740
in her voice.

455
00:21:55.740 --> 00:22:01.019
Like, she is going to die, except for that, like, the Deus X

456
00:22:01.019 --> 00:22:04.019
Mashina that sort of saves her. is brilliant.

457
00:22:04.380 --> 00:22:10.440
We did briefly mention that now for the 1st time, the audience

458
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:15.299
don't count as observers and so we can actually see them moving.

459
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:19.079
And I think the reason in story that we see them moving is that

460
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:24.119
Amy can't see them, is to emphasise how defenceless she is against

461
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:28.079
them, because she can't see them, we're able to see them move

462
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:28.920
around her.

463
00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:32.700
And it's super shocking when we 1st see it, isn't it?

464
00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:37.859
I think it's possible to watch Blink and not realise that we don't

465
00:22:37.859 --> 00:22:43.319
see the angels moving even when no one else is observing them.

466
00:22:43.380 --> 00:22:46.740
It's a super clever conceit in blink.

467
00:22:46.859 --> 00:22:51.960
And then just to have it happen here just absolutely amps up the

468
00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:52.319
tension.

469
00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:56.160
And it's super, super terrifying that scene.

470
00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:57.900
And it's just wonderfully resolved.

471
00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:01.619
We have had that sort of conversation between the doctor and river

472
00:23:01.619 --> 00:23:06.900
where river says that the teleport is kaput that it won't work.

473
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:10.319
And then the doctor comes up with the plan of getting her to walk

474
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:11.700
to the control room.

475
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:15.420
And River says that's never going to work and the doctor just

476
00:23:15.420 --> 00:23:18.000
absolutely turns on her and shouts at her.

477
00:23:18.059 --> 00:23:18.960
And it's so shocking.

478
00:23:19.019 --> 00:23:22.259
Yeah, and actually it's the doctor who says the teleport won't

479
00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:24.660
work and it's River who says, no, I can make this work and does.

480
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:26.579
Yeah, that's true, actually.

481
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:27.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

482
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:29.039
And of course, she's not useless.

483
00:23:29.099 --> 00:23:31.740
Like she's as good as the doctor.

484
00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:33.480
And of course she wasn't going to let her mother die.

485
00:23:33.539 --> 00:23:34.920
Well, we don't know that yet.

486
00:23:34.980 --> 00:23:35.640
Spoilers.

487
00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:38.759
It's nice when the angels start to move because it flips the

488
00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:39.359
perspective.

489
00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:43.500
Normally, in Doctor Who terms or in scary story terms, if you're

490
00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:46.799
the person who's hiding from the monsters, you keep as still as

491
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:50.220
possible, and if you think they're gone, you might slowly start to

492
00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:53.099
move to peer around a corner to see if they're there or whatever

493
00:23:53.099 --> 00:23:56.819
it's the other way around, the angels are still, because Amy's

494
00:23:56.819 --> 00:23:59.700
there, and they're very slowly starting to move to check his.

495
00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:00.900
Can she not see us?

496
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:02.279
Are we okay to kill?

497
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:03.539
right over there?

498
00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:05.640
She got muddy shoes.

499
00:24:20.700 --> 00:24:24.900
One thing that we didn't touch on when we were briefly mentioning

500
00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:30.480
the scene where Amy's dying, you know, the doctor and river are

501
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:34.619
there with their iPhone, sort of whatever, checking her pulse and

502
00:24:34.619 --> 00:24:34.920
stuff like that.

503
00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:35.940
Mini-chlo level.

504
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.279
Yeah, we've got the latest Apple Watch.

505
00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:42.359
So, you know, they head off and then the doctor comes back.

506
00:24:42.539 --> 00:24:45.900
And we don't know that that's actually from a later point in his

507
00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:46.259
timeline.

508
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:47.640
Yeah, we think it's continuity error.

509
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:48.480
Yeah, yeah.

510
00:24:48.539 --> 00:24:52.980
So when he reaches out to grab her, his sleeves aren't visible, you

511
00:24:52.980 --> 00:24:56.400
just see his arms grab her and then he's speaking to her.

512
00:24:56.460 --> 00:25:00.420
But in the background, you can see, and it's just part of the shot

513
00:25:00.420 --> 00:25:03.960
that's out of focus, that he's wearing the tweed jacket that was

514
00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:06.599
taken off him by the angels.

515
00:25:06.660 --> 00:25:10.259
And a less confident director, an episode would have shown you

516
00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:13.140
that costume in full to beat you over the head with it.

517
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.119
Yeah, I think I think that's right.

518
00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:19.799
And it shows an understanding of how the show is watched in an era

519
00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:21.180
when there's the internet.

520
00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:24.720
And so a couple of days time we were all talking about why he's

521
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:26.400
wearing the jacket when it's not there.

522
00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:29.519
And the assumption was it's a continuity.

523
00:25:29.579 --> 00:25:30.900
There was a pickup and they stuffed it up.

524
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:31.680
Yeah, yeah.

525
00:25:31.740 --> 00:25:37.619
But the things that he says to her, don't actually properly make

526
00:25:37.619 --> 00:25:41.819
sense in the context of the episode because he's talking to her

527
00:25:41.819 --> 00:25:45.900
about you have to trust me and you have to remember.

528
00:25:46.019 --> 00:25:49.740
Remember what I said to you when...

529
00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:54.900
But that's the brilliant thing about it, is that he hasn't had

530
00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:56.700
that conversation with her yet.

531
00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:00.539
We assume he's talking about the 11th hour.

532
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:05.220
Like something he said to her when she was 7 in his 1st story, but

533
00:26:05.220 --> 00:26:08.160
he's actually referring to a conversation he hasn't had yet in the

534
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:09.119
season finale.

535
00:26:09.180 --> 00:26:10.200
Yeah.

536
00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:10.980
Yeah.

537
00:26:11.099 --> 00:26:13.680
And like I'm going to lay my cards on the table.

538
00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:17.279
I think the season finale is extraordinarily brilliant.

539
00:26:17.339 --> 00:26:18.539
Oh, yes.

540
00:26:18.539 --> 00:26:20.039
Massively, massively interesting.

541
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:23.579
If only because they destroyed one of those terrible darling

542
00:26:23.579 --> 00:26:24.299
props.

543
00:26:24.359 --> 00:26:25.799
We're getting ahead of ourselves.

544
00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:35.880
You know, I've done a fair bit of bitching about Ed Thomas over

545
00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:38.519
the course of the new series, the fact that he was always heading

546
00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:40.740
out to Cardiff Alleyways and that paper mill.

547
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:41.519
I think he lives there.

548
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.180
But what a great job he does on this episode.

549
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:47.099
The spaceship interiors are amazing.

550
00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:50.579
The forest may be, and I know that that's a location, but the way

551
00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:53.880
that it's presented on screen is absolutely incredible.

552
00:26:53.940 --> 00:26:58.440
Um, and I think, you know, if you doubt that the importance of

553
00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:01.559
design to Doctor Who, go back to an episode like The Doctor's

554
00:27:01.559 --> 00:27:05.160
Daughter, where it fails the episode completely, and compare and

555
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:07.740
contrast with this episode. victory of the Daleks.

556
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:09.539
Yeah, pretty much.

557
00:27:09.660 --> 00:27:13.500
It must be quite difficult for them to get that set up.

558
00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:17.160
The ship whole in the forest.

559
00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:22.019
It's in Puzzlewood, uh, It's a heritage listed forest, like it

560
00:27:22.019 --> 00:27:27.480
would have been quite difficult to not damage it. contemplated

561
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:27.839
grass.

562
00:27:27.900 --> 00:27:28.200
Yeah.

563
00:27:28.259 --> 00:27:32.279
So the scene in the secondary control room where we look out onto

564
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:34.200
the forest is obviously it's all just...

565
00:27:34.259 --> 00:27:34.619
Green screen.

566
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:35.160
Yeah, yeah.

567
00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:43.680
But there is the scene where Octavian is killed has the wall of

568
00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:46.980
the primary control room visible.

569
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:49.380
Yeah, do you know, I think it might be green screen on occasions.

570
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:52.319
There might be one or 2 shots where you've got it green screened

571
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:55.380
into the back with Matt, but I think it might be simpler than

572
00:27:55.380 --> 00:27:55.619
that.

573
00:27:55.680 --> 00:28:00.059
I think they might have set up that little bit of the door on

574
00:28:00.059 --> 00:28:02.819
location so that the actors could physically walk out of it.

575
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:05.460
And if you're going to ask me any one thing.

576
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:08.759
I didn't like about this two-parter because I think it is

577
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:10.079
magnificent.

578
00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:13.079
I might home in on the fact that I think that's a little

579
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:14.279
simplistically covered.

580
00:28:14.339 --> 00:28:15.599
It's very shot reversed.

581
00:28:15.660 --> 00:28:18.000
It could have been done a little bit more seamless.

582
00:28:18.059 --> 00:28:19.559
Well, just stepping over the threshold into the forest.

583
00:28:19.619 --> 00:28:20.220
That's right.

584
00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:22.680
And then cutting back to the spaceship and then cutting back to

585
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:25.079
that, you very rarely see them in the same shot.

586
00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:26.460
You know what it reminds me of?

587
00:28:26.579 --> 00:28:28.079
Nightmare of Eden?

588
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:31.200
Yeah, that's what Brian wanted me to say.

589
00:28:32.220 --> 00:28:33.839
Well, exactly.

590
00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:36.059
I said, if I'm going to defend the original series.

591
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:38.099
I can't be using Nightmare of E. as an example.

592
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.400
I have to say that I think there's a bit of confusion about just

593
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:44.279
the physical relationship between everything because it looks like

594
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:50.039
where the doctor and river have gone is where the crack is, but it

595
00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:52.140
clearly is sort of off to the side somewhere.

596
00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:55.799
And I think it's probably a bit hard to sort of establish that in

597
00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:56.940
the forest where we are.

598
00:28:57.059 --> 00:29:00.779
But I did kind of get a bit lost in the sort of spatial

599
00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:02.400
relationships and stuff this time.

600
00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:04.319
Yeah, I did too. when I watched it through.

601
00:29:04.380 --> 00:29:06.660
But not, no, no, no, yeah, yeah.

602
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:11.700
I think that scene with Father Octavian is absolutely

603
00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:12.839
extraordinary.

604
00:29:12.900 --> 00:29:16.980
And the interesting thing I noticed this time is it's entirely the

605
00:29:16.980 --> 00:29:18.839
doctor's fault that he gets killed.

606
00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:23.039
So he's saying let's go in through the hatch and the doctor's

607
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:28.380
standing there theorising about what the crack is, you know, and

608
00:29:28.380 --> 00:29:31.680
and thinking allowed and all of that sort of thing. performing to

609
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:33.480
an audience that isn't there at the other side.

610
00:29:33.539 --> 00:29:34.680
Showing off.

611
00:29:34.740 --> 00:29:35.819
Yeah, exactly showing off.

612
00:29:35.880 --> 00:29:37.500
And then suddenly he's caught.

613
00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:40.740
But I will say, because, I mean, Ian Glenn is not someone who I

614
00:29:40.740 --> 00:29:44.160
particularly like as an actor only because of Game of Thrones.

615
00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:46.859
Every time he pops up on the screen, I just keep seeing him saying

616
00:29:46.859 --> 00:29:47.880
Khaleesi.

617
00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:50.700
And it just sort of, you know, it was just sort of endlessly

618
00:29:50.700 --> 00:29:53.700
repetitive, but he's very, very good in this, in this story and

619
00:29:53.700 --> 00:29:56.519
his death sequence is, is actually really well done.

620
00:29:56.579 --> 00:29:59.579
For someone who's basically saying, no, doctor, go save yourself.

621
00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:02.160
Leave me, I'll just die here and keep the head them off.

622
00:30:02.220 --> 00:30:04.859
It's actually a nice version of that.

623
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:06.539
And it's a restatement of the character.

624
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:07.500
Exactly.

625
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:08.220
And his principles.

626
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:10.799
And it's the Keeley whores rule from It's a Sin.

627
00:30:10.859 --> 00:30:15.240
It's weird overcasting for what he's done so far in the story, but

628
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:16.619
then it's made by that final scene.

629
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:21.119
And then you hear the crack of his neck as the doctor rushes.

630
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:27.299
I think too, you know, the doctor has been dismissive of the

631
00:30:27.299 --> 00:30:32.519
church's attitude towards sort of sexual ethics, but the story

632
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:38.579
absolutely kind of locates his bravery and his ability to face

633
00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:41.819
death within his religious beliefs.

634
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:45.720
You know, there's a there's a kind of redemption there.

635
00:30:45.779 --> 00:30:49.980
You know, this is a church that's an army, they're sort of crazy

636
00:30:49.980 --> 00:30:54.779
and maybe the bus of some sort of low-key jokes.

637
00:30:54.839 --> 00:31:00.720
But he's super brave and spectacular in that final scene. stoic

638
00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:03.420
because he believes he's going on to something else or something

639
00:31:03.420 --> 00:31:03.839
better.

640
00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:06.660
And is there not an exchange of dialogue?

641
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:10.440
I can't remember who says which line about, I wish you'd seen the

642
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:10.859
best of me.

643
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:12.720
No, so it's Matt.

644
00:31:12.779 --> 00:31:15.960
It says to him, I wish I'd known you better.

645
00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:20.339
And he says, I think you've seen me at my best. and that's a

646
00:31:20.339 --> 00:31:21.359
beautiful exchange.

647
00:31:21.420 --> 00:31:25.019
And think about, you know, the many, many times that David

648
00:31:25.019 --> 00:31:27.359
Tennant's doctor says, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.

649
00:31:27.420 --> 00:31:31.440
Whereas Matt says, I wish I had known you better because he was

650
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:36.480
sort of a bit dismissive of him as the kind of lead soldier.

651
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:38.579
And then Matt tears up.

652
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:42.359
You know, like it, Matt tears up before going into the thing.

653
00:31:42.420 --> 00:31:45.000
Like, it's incredible to have the doctor that affected by the

654
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:46.140
death of a minor character.

655
00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:50.519
The thing I like too, about the, you know, the doctor doing a bit

656
00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:52.920
of teasing and being a little bit dismissive of, you know, the

657
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.819
religion and the military sort of stuff is I think it pictures

658
00:31:56.819 --> 00:31:59.400
that sort of thing at the right level as well in terms of, you

659
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:01.559
know, that there are certain things about religion and about the

660
00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:04.559
military, which are problematic, but at the same time, you know

661
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:06.299
there's a lot of good about them, et cetera, et cetera.

662
00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:09.359
And I think that they get the tone wrong later.

663
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:13.140
And well, they have gotten the tone wrong with that at other

664
00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:13.500
times.

665
00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:17.400
And I think this is this is kind of a, I think hits it on the

666
00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:17.759
right spot.

667
00:32:17.819 --> 00:32:22.019
Isn't there always a sense the new doctor wipes the slate clean a

668
00:32:22.019 --> 00:32:23.759
little bit and has like a fresh start?

669
00:32:23.819 --> 00:32:27.119
And this is almost like the 1st time this series that Matt is

670
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:31.259
facing the fact that the 11th doctor is facing the fact that his

671
00:32:31.259 --> 00:32:32.460
actions have consequences?

672
00:32:32.579 --> 00:32:34.019
Yeah.

673
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:37.200
I think that there's no particular problem with just wiping the

674
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:37.799
slate clean.

675
00:32:37.859 --> 00:32:42.059
When we do the lodger later this season, it's really apparent that

676
00:32:42.059 --> 00:32:44.880
the doctor doesn't really know how human beings interact with one

677
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:48.839
another. despite the fact that John Pertwe spent, you know, 3

678
00:32:48.839 --> 00:32:52.500
years or 5 years or whatever, exile to Earth, and I don't care.

679
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:53.880
At the club with top.

680
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:59.039
Sorry, just that other thing about Ian Glennon, about Octavian, is

681
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:04.740
that wonderful line where he says to the doctor, something to be

682
00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:07.259
I'll be the one who has to tell their fam- think about that when I

683
00:33:07.259 --> 00:33:09.539
have to tell their families about their death.

684
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:10.980
It's a lovely...

685
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:13.019
It sort of shows that the doctors missed something.

686
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:13.920
It's nice.

687
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:15.720
It's a point that's been made before too.

688
00:33:15.779 --> 00:33:18.779
And it's also one that Moffat returns to in series 10.

689
00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:22.440
I think in thin ice where there's a whole exchange between Bill

690
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:26.339
and the doctor about you just move on and Bill has to deal with

691
00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:27.240
that and process that.

692
00:33:33.539 --> 00:33:40.079
So the angels all sort of fall into the crack and close it, because

693
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:43.980
they're a complicated space-time event, which I think is a

694
00:33:43.980 --> 00:33:48.839
terribly magical and bid median sort of way of describing.

695
00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:50.880
It's great. the anti-technobabble.

696
00:33:50.940 --> 00:33:52.200
Yeah, yeah, it's really good.

697
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:57.480
But that actually happens quite early in the episode and we

698
00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:03.299
actually do have the time to say goodbye to river for a start on

699
00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:07.079
the beach in a scene that I think is also really magnificent.

700
00:34:07.140 --> 00:34:09.300
You, me, handcuffs.

701
00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:11.880
Why does it always have to end this way?

702
00:34:11.940 --> 00:34:17.280
My favourite line is where the doctor says, can I trust you?

703
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:19.260
And she says, if you like.

704
00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:21.900
Which I would be the fun in that.

705
00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:23.340
It's so wonderful.

706
00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:24.360
It's so great.

707
00:34:24.420 --> 00:34:30.539
And that's where, you know, it's made very clear that it's the

708
00:34:30.539 --> 00:34:32.699
doctor that River's going to kill.

709
00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:35.699
And I think the doctor probably realises that as well.

710
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:39.000
It's romantic comedy banter 101.

711
00:34:39.179 --> 00:34:42.059
That's squarely in Moffatt's wheelhouse.

712
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:45.000
It's the biggest indication, I think, that kind of dialogue of the

713
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:49.019
shift from Russell to Moffat because that's dialogue that

714
00:34:49.019 --> 00:34:52.260
Russell's not that interested in, but Moffat can just reel it

715
00:34:52.260 --> 00:34:52.500
off.

716
00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:53.340
Yeah, yeah.

717
00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:59.159
It's that scene that made me fall in love with Moffatt's version

718
00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:04.860
of this show. is just the dialogue and the interplay between the

719
00:35:04.860 --> 00:35:05.340
characters.

720
00:35:05.460 --> 00:35:08.880
And I was not totally on board until the end of this episode.

721
00:35:08.940 --> 00:35:10.500
I think it's beautiful.

722
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:13.380
I also think the doctor and Aemia are really wonderful together.

723
00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:17.340
You know, the revelation that she's climbed down with her eyes

724
00:35:17.340 --> 00:35:21.179
closed. because he hasn't mentioned.

725
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:26.460
I told you, like, you know, in dialogue about 45 minutes ago.

726
00:35:26.519 --> 00:35:29.159
That's the thing with Mickey keeping his finger on the switch

727
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:29.880
isn't it?

728
00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:31.679
I forget to tell him to take it off.

729
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:34.920
But there are some beautiful shots as well of the 2 of them

730
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:36.059
standing together.

731
00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:41.699
In a way, it almost looks like a publicity shot or a statement of

732
00:35:41.699 --> 00:35:44.400
this is what the doctor and his companion look like.

733
00:35:44.460 --> 00:35:49.320
You know, you know, every season so far, we've had a big publicity

734
00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:52.980
shoot and we've seen what the doctor and the companion look like.

735
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:57.599
And here, there's a real definite sense that they're equals, you

736
00:35:57.599 --> 00:35:59.099
know, they're the same height.

737
00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:02.820
They're both young, you know, they're both attractive.

738
00:36:02.820 --> 00:36:07.199
And just that scene where they're shot from behind and they're

739
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:09.900
looking out over the sea, I think, is beautifully composed.

740
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:12.659
That's also only important things that this story does.

741
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:15.900
And I have to think it was intentional on Moffat's behalf.

742
00:36:15.900 --> 00:36:20.760
In the 1st few episodes, Amy is in awe of the doctor, and here, by

743
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:25.019
looking at the example of River, her daughter, as we'll find out

744
00:36:25.019 --> 00:36:29.400
she ceased being in awe of the doctor, and she is now knows that

745
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:32.099
she can treat him as an equal in some ways, and prod him a little

746
00:36:32.099 --> 00:36:33.960
bit, and it sets the template for the rest of their

747
00:36:33.960 --> 00:36:34.440
relationships.

748
00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:37.199
Are you being Mr. Grumpy fixed?

749
00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:38.280
Yes.

750
00:36:38.340 --> 00:36:40.739
I actually think that that's already there a little bit.

751
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:42.000
I've mentioned it before.

752
00:36:42.059 --> 00:36:45.900
It's that moment where the doctor's eating fish custard and little

753
00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:48.420
Amelia just looks at him and it goes, hmm, funny.

754
00:36:48.420 --> 00:36:53.280
Like, and I think too, that that is some of the source of the fan

755
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:57.000
discomfort about Amy is that she refuses to be in awe of the

756
00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:57.239
doctor.

757
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:01.440
But I mean, that was what we liked about Donna, was that you had

758
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:06.840
this sort of grandstanding showboating doctor and Donna's

759
00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:08.400
constantly sort of puncturing him.

760
00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:12.420
This is a much more low key version of the same thing.

761
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:15.059
And I think it's just tremendous.

762
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.760
And possibly the problem that people picked up on with Martha.

763
00:37:17.820 --> 00:37:20.099
You know, there was never any great problem with Martha, but the

764
00:37:20.099 --> 00:37:22.739
fact that she is too in awe of the doctor.

765
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:23.099
Yeah.

766
00:37:23.099 --> 00:37:23.699
Yeah.

767
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:25.380
Yes, it's just not very interesting.

768
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:42.059
So, we should talk about the final controversial final scene.

769
00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:43.679
Speaking of not being in awe of.

770
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:50.340
I think that Moffat has gone on record saying he wouldn't have

771
00:37:50.340 --> 00:37:53.519
done this now or he thinks that it was a mistake.

772
00:37:53.579 --> 00:37:58.679
Not necessarily that the scene wouldn't have happened, but the

773
00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:05.340
writing it as a screwball, almost literally, comedy. was the wrong

774
00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:05.639
move.

775
00:38:05.699 --> 00:38:10.619
I mean, Moffatt always does that, and rule one is that Moffatt

776
00:38:10.619 --> 00:38:14.579
lies, and he's constantly kind of going back and saying, no, I

777
00:38:14.579 --> 00:38:15.719
didn't like what I did here.

778
00:38:15.780 --> 00:38:18.059
I'm you know, I'll do something different going on.

779
00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:24.420
But I actually think that the scene works in a way.

780
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:28.139
I'm not super on board with the idea that Amy falls in love with

781
00:38:28.139 --> 00:38:34.500
her imaginary friend, um, and that she seems to, um, you know, she

782
00:38:34.500 --> 00:38:38.099
seems to already fancy him in victory of the Daleks.

783
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:42.360
There's a dialogue about it where she's talking to Bracewell.

784
00:38:42.420 --> 00:38:44.699
But I think it is a pretty funny scene.

785
00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:46.500
I think Moffat had a problem with that as well.

786
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:48.300
He regretted writing that bit as well.

787
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:52.440
There's also the sequence in 11th hour where she watches him

788
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.019
undress and says, look away.

789
00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:55.320
No.

790
00:38:55.559 --> 00:38:59.519
I don't I don't read that and I don't think it's supposed to be

791
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:01.139
read as she's in love with him.

792
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:06.000
She's just like, oh, this funny raggedy man that, you know, was my

793
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:06.840
imaginary friend.

794
00:39:06.900 --> 00:39:07.559
He's kind of hot.

795
00:39:07.619 --> 00:39:09.840
Yeah, she is playing sexual desire.

796
00:39:09.900 --> 00:39:10.920
It's not it's not love.

797
00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:12.179
And that's what this is.

798
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:13.619
I mean, that's what this is.

799
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:16.199
She has sort of nearly died.

800
00:39:16.260 --> 00:39:19.619
And something important has happened in this episode to change

801
00:39:19.619 --> 00:39:23.579
their relationship because she's been running away from her

802
00:39:23.579 --> 00:39:29.460
wedding, from her impending adulthood into the arms of her, you

803
00:39:29.460 --> 00:39:32.519
know, imaginary childhood friend in order to be sort of

804
00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:33.480
irresponsible.

805
00:39:33.539 --> 00:39:38.099
And I think she says that it's because she sees river, his

806
00:39:38.099 --> 00:39:41.280
relationship with river, he's running away from river, he's

807
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:43.500
running away from his wife, you know, as well.

808
00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:47.639
And so she admits to him what's happening here.

809
00:39:47.699 --> 00:39:52.920
And so this is this is kind of the low point of Amy and Rory's

810
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:53.760
relationship.

811
00:39:53.820 --> 00:40:00.239
So when we 1st meet them, she's embarrassed about Rory and won't

812
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:03.900
admit that he's her boyfriend.

813
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:07.920
And here, she admits that she's not marrying the good looking

814
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:08.159
one.

815
00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:15.900
Oh, that thing with the nose, which was ad-libbed by by by Matt

816
00:40:15.900 --> 00:40:16.260
Smith.

817
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:17.460
He's nice too.

818
00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:22.139
And then she sort of tries and gets her leg over the doctor.

819
00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:25.019
And I think it's actually, it is properly funny.

820
00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:28.619
I appreciate what it's trying to do more so than I did at the

821
00:40:28.619 --> 00:40:28.860
time.

822
00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:30.840
I've had a todd evolution on this.

823
00:40:30.900 --> 00:40:32.039
It used to be a four.

824
00:40:32.099 --> 00:40:32.940
It now a 7.2.

825
00:40:33.059 --> 00:40:37.679
I like the boldness of it because it's really Amy's, Amy's running

826
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:42.000
away from her life and this is her last ditch attempt to just turn

827
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:43.739
her back on it and move on.

828
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:46.139
Whereas the doctor correctly identifies.

829
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:47.400
You can't turn your back on it.

830
00:40:47.460 --> 00:40:48.420
You've got to face it.

831
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:53.880
Tony, it's a little bit jarring with the rest of the episode.

832
00:40:53.940 --> 00:40:54.900
I think that's intentional.

833
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:59.400
The bigger problem, I think, is that it's slightly icky in a Me

834
00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:02.940
Too world, because Amy is clearly making moves on the doctor that

835
00:41:02.940 --> 00:41:06.659
he doesn't want, and I think that hasn't worn well.

836
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:09.539
But it does end with that wonderful line.

837
00:41:09.659 --> 00:41:15.179
The most important thing right now is Amy Pond is that I sought

838
00:41:15.179 --> 00:41:15.599
you out.

839
00:41:15.780 --> 00:41:17.280
Jesus.

840
00:41:17.340 --> 00:41:19.440
That's what I've been telling you.

841
00:41:19.500 --> 00:41:20.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

842
00:41:20.340 --> 00:41:24.179
Which is funny. you know, it's great rom-com kind of, you know

843
00:41:24.179 --> 00:41:25.019
snafu.

844
00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:27.179
It just, it slightly misses.

845
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:28.559
It doesn't miss by a long way.

846
00:41:28.619 --> 00:41:29.400
It's slightly misses.

847
00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:33.539
I actually secretly love the line where he's explaining that

848
00:41:33.539 --> 00:41:37.860
there's 2 lines where he's explaining that he'll change and doing

849
00:41:37.860 --> 00:41:39.900
that whole thing that he says to Sarah.

850
00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:42.360
Say, you know, I'll, you'll grow old.

851
00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:43.739
I'll just change.

852
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:45.840
And she goes, oh, doctor, how sweet that you thought I was

853
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:47.940
thinking of something, you know, or I wasn't thinking of something

854
00:41:47.940 --> 00:41:49.739
quite so long to...

855
00:41:49.739 --> 00:41:54.239
And also the where he says, I'm 907 years old, do you know what

856
00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:54.659
that means?

857
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:57.059
She says, well, it's been a while.

858
00:41:58.139 --> 00:42:03.179
Like all of that is actually properly funny and it's where the

859
00:42:03.179 --> 00:42:07.320
doctor kind of leaps into action and decides to fix their

860
00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:07.860
relationship.

861
00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:12.840
It's again, it's an example of what we were talking about before

862
00:42:12.840 --> 00:42:19.079
where the humour is being used to, as a relief, as a release from

863
00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:22.199
the tension of the whole episode.

864
00:42:22.260 --> 00:42:24.539
It's like things can get better.

865
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:29.039
You can try and jump your your imaginary friend from when you're 7

866
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:29.460
years old.

867
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:30.179
Yeah.

868
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:32.820
I think it's also possible to sort of take it a little bit too

869
00:42:32.820 --> 00:42:33.480
seriously as well.

870
00:42:33.539 --> 00:42:34.980
I mean, yeah, I wouldn't have done it.

871
00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:38.039
I probably wouldn't wish they didn't do the sequence, but, you

872
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:41.400
know, at this moment, Rory is on his bucks night, which, you know

873
00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:43.559
the doctor's about to crash by bursting out of the cake.

874
00:42:43.619 --> 00:42:46.199
Now, it would have been some kind of scant-clag young woman, I

875
00:42:46.199 --> 00:42:48.420
imagine, who was going to be bursting out of the cake.

876
00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:49.079
Tracy.

877
00:42:49.139 --> 00:42:49.860
She's a diabetic.

878
00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:51.059
Oh, I do beg your pardon.

879
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:54.900
But the point is all Amy is doing is asserting her kind of

880
00:42:54.900 --> 00:42:59.460
sexuality and having the last fling, as it were, which men have

881
00:42:59.460 --> 00:43:02.579
been encouraged to do for many a year, less so now.

882
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:05.639
But the tradition of the bucks night is to basically, effectively

883
00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:08.460
have your last extra marital affair before you get married.

884
00:43:08.460 --> 00:43:12.360
And all Amy's doing is kind of taking that bull by the horns and

885
00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:13.619
doing it herself.

886
00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:15.659
As she says, she's not after anything long term.

887
00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:16.920
She just wants to have a shag.

888
00:43:16.980 --> 00:43:19.739
She had this incredibly impossible adventure where she almost died

889
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:21.119
have a shag and move on.

890
00:43:21.179 --> 00:43:24.840
And the doctor is hot, you know, like Matt Smith's doctor isn't

891
00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:28.320
weird looking, but he is young and pretty in a way.

892
00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:30.480
If you fancy drunk giraffes.

893
00:43:30.539 --> 00:43:36.119
And the show has long since decided not to ignore that fact, you

894
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:36.360
know.

895
00:43:36.420 --> 00:43:37.559
And I think that's perfectly fine.

896
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:41.639
Do you think Moffat is having fun at Russell's expense with the

897
00:43:41.639 --> 00:43:43.199
companions falling in love with the doctor?

898
00:43:43.260 --> 00:43:43.739
Yes.

899
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:44.579
Maybe, yeah.

900
00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:46.079
Maybe, I don't see it.

901
00:43:46.139 --> 00:43:49.260
It's refreshing that she's not in love with him.

902
00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:52.619
She thinks he's hot and she wants a shack.

903
00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:55.800
And he plays the emotional basis, the whole underpending of

904
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:57.780
previous seasons as a one scene joke.

905
00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:01.320
Yeah, I think I think the other thing too, which is sort of fun, is

906
00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:05.820
that that David Tennant's doctor is kind of sexually confident.

907
00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:11.159
Like he has, he's had Queen Elizabeth I, you know, which Moffat

908
00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:12.239
keeps going back to, actually.

909
00:44:12.300 --> 00:44:17.820
Whereas this doctor is absolutely kind of clueless and I just

910
00:44:17.820 --> 00:44:20.400
think that's kind of super funny.

911
00:44:20.460 --> 00:44:23.340
My my feeling about this scene is that it works.

912
00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:25.019
It's super funny.

913
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:33.360
I think people get annoyed at Amy for being so much more sexual

914
00:44:33.360 --> 00:44:35.039
than any previous companion.

915
00:44:35.099 --> 00:44:35.940
Do you know what I mean?

916
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:38.639
I mean, that's yeah. effectively what I was meaning.

917
00:44:38.699 --> 00:44:39.719
Yeah, I agree with that.

918
00:44:39.780 --> 00:44:41.099
And I think she is.

919
00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:43.860
I also think she takes it slightly too far.

920
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:44.699
The character does.

921
00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:48.539
Yeah, but I think that he just kind of gets carried away with the

922
00:44:48.539 --> 00:44:50.159
joy of writing rom-com dialogue.

923
00:44:50.219 --> 00:44:52.440
Yes, and there was no one there to tell him to dial it back

924
00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:52.800
basically.

925
00:44:52.860 --> 00:44:54.059
Then you're so good at it.

926
00:44:54.119 --> 00:44:55.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

927
00:44:55.260 --> 00:44:55.500
Why not?

928
00:44:55.500 --> 00:45:00.599
But I think its problem is not the scene itself. because of the

929
00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:04.619
seasons we've had before and the fact that Rory is not just going

930
00:45:04.619 --> 00:45:07.380
to have been in one or 2 episodes, he's going to join the Tartar

931
00:45:07.380 --> 00:45:07.800
crew.

932
00:45:07.860 --> 00:45:12.480
And I think it just for a moment undermines their relationship in

933
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:15.239
a way that you're always questioning for the rest of the time

934
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:18.179
whether Amy's actually falling in love with the doctor.

935
00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:21.900
I mean, and there's whole sequences about Rory questioning whether

936
00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:24.599
she actually feels for the doctor more than she feels for him

937
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:30.300
except that I think that we'll have vampires of Venice next week

938
00:45:30.300 --> 00:45:33.420
then we'll have Amy's choice, and from then on, it's sort of an

939
00:45:33.420 --> 00:45:38.460
ever given a choice between the doctor and Rory, Amy unfailingly

940
00:45:38.460 --> 00:45:39.300
chooses Rory.

941
00:45:39.539 --> 00:45:42.719
Until the Dalek story. in series.

942
00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:44.460
No, but even then, do you know what I mean?

943
00:45:44.579 --> 00:45:49.679
And again, this is the doctor fixing their relationship and he

944
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:52.800
does exactly the same thing after being told that the doctor, your

945
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:56.340
job is to fight monsters, not to fix our marriage, but he fixes it

946
00:45:56.340 --> 00:45:56.699
anyway.

947
00:45:56.760 --> 00:46:00.300
This is very empathetic and self-aware for a doctor who in the

948
00:46:00.300 --> 00:46:04.139
lodger won't even know how to coexist with somebody else in a

949
00:46:04.139 --> 00:46:04.440
flat.

950
00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:07.619
How could you coexist with James Corden?

951
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:09.059
Yeah, yeah.

952
00:46:09.059 --> 00:46:12.000
And I'm not saying that what you just said is not wrong because

953
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:13.079
it's entirely right.

954
00:46:13.139 --> 00:46:16.260
I'm just saying that it's easy to kind of forget that that's all

955
00:46:16.260 --> 00:46:17.940
the structure and how it evolved. you know what I mean?

956
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:20.099
You keep remembering this.

957
00:46:20.219 --> 00:46:23.219
And you remember this because you remember the fact that Rose and

958
00:46:23.219 --> 00:46:25.679
Martha were in love with the doctor and wanted to shag it every

959
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:25.980
time.

960
00:46:26.039 --> 00:46:26.639
That what I'm saying.

961
00:46:26.699 --> 00:46:27.840
I just feel like, oh, here we are again.

962
00:46:27.900 --> 00:46:31.860
I think because this season is about Amy's relationship with her

963
00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:33.059
own adulthood.

964
00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:35.099
You know, we see her as a child.

965
00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:36.719
We see her as a child again.

966
00:46:36.780 --> 00:46:41.400
You know, she escapes the night before assuming the adult role of

967
00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:44.760
wife with her childhood imaginary friend.

968
00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:51.659
And the resolution of the entire series is her accepting her

969
00:46:51.659 --> 00:46:55.980
adulthood and integrating her childhood sort of fantasy world into

970
00:46:55.980 --> 00:46:59.639
that as well in a sort of really sort of triumphant synthesis.

971
00:46:59.699 --> 00:47:04.500
So I think her sexuality is an important element of that arc.

972
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:07.559
So you might almost say that the emotional arc of the series is

973
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:08.519
Amy's choice.

974
00:47:20.579 --> 00:47:24.780
All right, so it's part two of a two-part story.

975
00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:26.280
So it's time for peaks of the week.

976
00:47:26.340 --> 00:47:27.300
James.

977
00:47:27.539 --> 00:47:30.780
Well, my pick of the week, surprise, surprise.

978
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:31.619
Have you met me?

979
00:47:31.619 --> 00:47:33.539
is a big finish audio.

980
00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:36.059
It was released about 5 years ago.

981
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:40.679
It's from their classic doctor's new monsters range.

982
00:47:40.739 --> 00:47:47.219
It's a 5th doctor story featuring Michelangelo and the Weeping

983
00:47:47.219 --> 00:47:47.639
Angels.

984
00:47:47.699 --> 00:47:49.260
It's called Fallen Angels.

985
00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:51.119
It's quite enjoyable.

986
00:47:51.179 --> 00:47:53.699
And you'll like this, Peter.

987
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:59.099
Sasha Dawan plays one of the bit part characters, your future ex

988
00:47:58.320 --> 00:47:59.460
husband, I believe.

989
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:03.059
So yes, I check that out.

990
00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:06.179
Or any any of the Diary of River song.

991
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:06.840
Brilliant.

992
00:48:06.900 --> 00:48:08.219
Peter?

993
00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:13.320
My pick of the week is Bridgerton, simply because series 3's a Joa

994
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:19.139
Ando, fabulous, and time heist, Jonathan Bailey, hot, and there we

995
00:48:19.139 --> 00:48:19.440
go.

996
00:48:19.500 --> 00:48:20.880
And naked, yes.

997
00:48:20.940 --> 00:48:22.380
Which one, Joe?

998
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:27.599
I think this one may have been mentioned before, but I think it's

999
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:31.019
definitely worth mentioning again, is the time traveler's wife.

1000
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:35.760
It was originally a book in 2003, but it was made into a film in

1001
00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:39.659
2009 with Eric Banner and Rager McAdams, and it's that thing of

1002
00:48:39.659 --> 00:48:42.599
these 2 people are having a relationship in the wrong order

1003
00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:48.239
because Eric Banner's character is floating through time, and it's

1004
00:48:48.239 --> 00:48:51.119
obviously where all the inspiration has come from for River song

1005
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:57.179
but it's good to see it. having seen all of the Doctor Who related

1006
00:48:57.179 --> 00:49:00.179
stuff because it obviously has does have a different take on it

1007
00:49:00.179 --> 00:49:01.679
and it does work differently.

1008
00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:05.579
And the film is actually very, very good, but it just kind of

1009
00:49:05.579 --> 00:49:08.280
disappeared a little bit when it was released in 2009 didn't get

1010
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:10.079
much much. into a crack.

1011
00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:11.400
Yeah, that's what happened.

1012
00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:16.440
Well, I'm going to pick something fairly obvious, which is it's a

1013
00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:20.519
sin, which by the time you hear this, it will have been out for

1014
00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:21.239
some months.

1015
00:49:21.300 --> 00:49:23.699
And if you've already watched it, watch it again.

1016
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:27.840
Well, one of the things is that I had expected it to be sort of

1017
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:32.639
fairly harrowing because the premise is that it's set in London, a

1018
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:38.460
small group of friends in the 1980s, sort of as HIV becomes a

1019
00:49:38.460 --> 00:49:41.699
thing and as gay men start dying of AIDS.

1020
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:45.840
And so it seems like it's going to be a premise that's super

1021
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:46.440
upsetting.

1022
00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:51.840
And it is, it is quite upsetting, but I would go back and watch it

1023
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:57.119
again in a heartbeat because I adore those characters and there's

1024
00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:01.260
some real warmth and humanity and some proper lessons that we've

1025
00:50:01.260 --> 00:50:06.480
forgotten about perhaps the way that gay men were treated and

1026
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:11.099
regarded in the 1980s, things that we find it easy to forget now

1027
00:50:11.099 --> 00:50:13.440
but that are definitely worth remembering.

1028
00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:19.019
We were, some of us, well, all of us were around in the 1980s, um

1029
00:50:19.019 --> 00:50:19.980
to something.

1030
00:50:19.980 --> 00:50:22.019
I'm from 1980.

1031
00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:22.679
That's right.

1032
00:50:22.739 --> 00:50:27.239
And so some of us perhaps experienced some of this stuff early on

1033
00:50:27.239 --> 00:50:30.000
but just being reminded of the scale of it is absolutely

1034
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:30.719
worthwhile.

1035
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:34.139
In an interesting kind of turn of fate.

1036
00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:36.300
I'm rereading all of the tales of the city.

1037
00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:42.719
I just hit significant others, which is the book where Michael

1038
00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:44.940
Tolliver tests positive.

1039
00:50:44.940 --> 00:50:51.119
And I haven't watched It's a Sin yet, but I find that diff- that

1040
00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:55.019
book's so difficult to start because it's so, it is so harrowing

1041
00:50:55.019 --> 00:51:00.119
but the humour by the end of it has, you know, lifted you out of

1042
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:00.719
that.

1043
00:51:00.780 --> 00:51:06.179
And even away from the melancholy of it's a sin and the upsetting

1044
00:51:06.179 --> 00:51:10.019
content and the real moments of comedy.

1045
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:11.699
It's the best iteration.

1046
00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:16.739
I think I've seen of that phenomenon where gay men historically

1047
00:51:16.739 --> 00:51:20.219
maybe not so much now, but historically, um, were rejected by

1048
00:51:20.219 --> 00:51:23.460
their families and so had to create their own family, um, and it

1049
00:51:23.460 --> 00:51:26.699
just feels incredible for that. can cause that the logical

1050
00:51:26.699 --> 00:51:27.000
family.

1051
00:51:27.059 --> 00:51:28.199
Yeah, yeah.

1052
00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:30.539
Your biological family, a neological family.

1053
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:34.800
And it's a huge, It's a very good example of it in it's a sin.

1054
00:51:34.860 --> 00:51:38.400
It does all of the things that Russell does so well, including

1055
00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:41.039
making you very scared and upset.

1056
00:51:41.099 --> 00:51:46.920
But it's not, it's not cynical or exploitative.

1057
00:51:46.980 --> 00:51:50.760
And like I said, I would gladly watch it again.

1058
00:51:50.820 --> 00:51:51.900
I think it's extremely good.

1059
00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:15.900
Well, there, listen, that's all we have time for this week.

1060
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:19.260
We'll be back next week to watch the doctor take on the exciting

1061
00:52:19.260 --> 00:52:24.239
new roles of Stripper and Relationship Counsellor in the Vampires

1062
00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:25.019
of Venice.

1063
00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:28.860
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1064
00:52:28.860 --> 00:52:31.800
and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook

1065
00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:36.539
at FT Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety

1066
00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:39.840
com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, and

1067
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:41.039
Jody into Terror.

1068
00:52:41.579 --> 00:52:46.139
Until next time, may you always find yourself holding on to

1069
00:52:46.139 --> 00:52:48.780
someone lovely when the gravity gives out.

1070
00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:51.780
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1071
00:52:51.840 --> 00:52:53.820
That sounds like my last Saturday night.

1072
00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:54.780
Good night.

1073
00:52:54.840 --> 00:52:55.739
Bye for now.

1074
00:52:59.880 --> 00:53:03.900
That was Flight for Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter

1075
00:53:03.900 --> 00:53:05.880
Griffith, Simon Moore, and James Selwood.

1076
00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:08.039
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1077
00:53:08.099 --> 00:53:11.639
This episode, Spatial Relationships, was recorded on the 6th of

1078
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:14.760
February 2021 and released on the 11th of April.

1079
00:53:18.059 --> 00:53:22.019
Fans of the complex asynchronicity of the Doctor and River's

1080
00:53:22.019 --> 00:53:25.079
relationship can recreate the same experience in their own homes

1081
00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:29.340
by watching Doctor Who under the guidance of the Randomiser, which

1082
00:53:29.340 --> 00:53:33.239
you can find at the Randomiser.net and on Twitter at DW

1083
00:53:33.239 --> 00:53:34.320
Randomiser.

1084
00:53:35.699 --> 00:53:39.780
I think the season finale is extraordinarily brilliant.

1085
00:53:40.440 --> 00:53:42.599
Massively, massively interesting.

1086
00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:46.860
If only because they destroyed one of those terrible darling

1087
00:53:46.860 --> 00:53:47.579
props.

1088
00:53:47.639 --> 00:53:48.960
We're getting ahead of ourselves.

1089
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:53.820
I have to say that because Brendan says it.

1090
00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:56.639
Oh, right, okay. trademark.

1091
00:53:56.699 --> 00:54:00.480
Well, it's so spectacular because it's the 1st one that's, you

1092
00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:01.079
know, good.

1093
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:02.340
No, no, no.

1094
00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:04.079
All the previous ones are marvellous.

1095
00:54:04.199 --> 00:54:06.960
But this is marvellous in a completely different way.

1096
00:54:07.019 --> 00:54:08.579
It's marvellous because it's actually good.

1097
00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:11.099
We think there's some cleric scene because that was heresy.

1098
00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:15.900
I like to stir.

1099
00:54:15.900 --> 00:54:19.619
What do we need to talk about?

1100
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:24.960
Oh, by the way, can you think of a, I should have, this is me

1101
00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:25.679
throwing it at you.

1102
00:54:25.739 --> 00:54:28.199
The thing, pics of the week.

1103
00:54:28.260 --> 00:54:29.460
Yeah, don't do it now.

1104
00:54:29.460 --> 00:54:31.619
No, but I need to...

1105
00:54:32.099 --> 00:54:35.340
I need to know whether I need to know whether it's one that you've

1106
00:54:35.340 --> 00:54:35.639
done before.

1107
00:54:35.699 --> 00:54:36.960
Have you done Time Traveler's Wife?

1108
00:54:37.019 --> 00:54:37.440
No.

1109
00:54:37.500 --> 00:54:38.579
Okay, well I'll mention that then.

1110
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:40.139
Oh, maybe, have we?

1111
00:54:40.199 --> 00:54:43.320
Well, I mean, he did W1I and I read that.

1112
00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:44.039
So, yeah, yeah.

1113
00:54:44.099 --> 00:54:44.519
Just do it.

1114
00:54:44.579 --> 00:54:45.360
It's been a while ago.

1115
00:54:45.420 --> 00:54:45.780
Yeah, yeah.