WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:55:09 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:46.380 Hello, dear listen, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, which can't remember your name mere minutes after we were 1st introduced. 2 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:48.000 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:48.060 --> 00:00:48.899 I'm James. 4 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:49.740 I'm Peter. 5 00:00:49.859 --> 00:00:50.579 And I'm Simon. 6 00:00:50.640 --> 00:01:01.500 Well, this week we're talking about an episode in which our heroes spend half an hour running away from statues, which would be surprising if exactly the same thing hadn't happened last week as well. 7 00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:08.939 Still, it's a pretty riveting half an hour, as you'll soon discover when we discuss flesh and stone. 8 00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:34.200 You know, one thing that we failed to mention last week is how well this is directed and how solid the production is. 9 00:01:34.260 --> 00:01:36.239 It's amazing. 10 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:43.920 Do you know I wrote about this story for the Doctor Who magazine, our 1st 50 Years Special, where we compiled the big survey. 11 00:01:43.980 --> 00:01:45.060 That's a flex. 12 00:01:50.219 --> 00:02:01.680 And when I wrote about it, I was dissuaded by a certain DWM ex editor from saying that I think this is the most confident production that Doc 2 has ever mounted, but I stand by that. 13 00:02:01.739 --> 00:02:02.280 It is. 14 00:02:02.340 --> 00:02:14.879 I think maybe there might be a production or 2 later on, maybe world enough and time in the Doctor Falls, which are better all round productions, but this is amazing in its cohesiveness. 15 00:02:14.939 --> 00:02:19.860 And it looks like it's had the longest and most in-depth tone meeting in the world. 16 00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:44.520 It's interesting you say that because Adam Smith hated making the story, by all accounts, he found the weeping angels incredibly difficult to shoot because, you know, their people in costumes, like he found it, like he found it so frustrating to try and shoot them in a way where you couldn't see them moving. 17 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:49.800 And, I mean, the end result is brilliant, but it was apparently very painful. 18 00:02:49.860 --> 00:02:52.080 Well, it's the James Cameron experiences. 19 00:02:52.139 --> 00:02:56.219 No, you don't have to have a lot of fun shooting something for it to be a brilliant end. 20 00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:58.500 Tase Avengersani versus twin dilemma, I seem to recall. 21 00:02:58.560 --> 00:02:58.919 Correct. 22 00:02:58.979 --> 00:03:00.060 Sparkle. 23 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:07.560 I think in Blink, they very frequently had to kind of just pause things. 24 00:03:07.620 --> 00:03:10.919 There were slight movements with the people in costume. 25 00:03:10.979 --> 00:03:11.939 And they had to freeze the frame. 26 00:03:12.060 --> 00:03:12.479 Yeah, yeah. 27 00:03:12.539 --> 00:03:13.800 You'll freeze the part of the frame. 28 00:03:13.860 --> 00:03:24.360 I mean, there's all that sort of magic they can do, but nevertheless, even so, despite that magic, what a spectacular job that those women did dressed up as the angels not moving. 29 00:03:24.419 --> 00:03:29.159 I mean, at no point do I think, except when their heads are turning when Amy's fallen on the ground. 30 00:03:29.219 --> 00:03:32.280 At no point do I think that these are not statues? 31 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:39.840 Yeah, and like kudos to the make-up artists, like the effects, because that's all paint. 32 00:03:39.900 --> 00:03:43.319 It's not them, like their arms are their arms. 33 00:03:43.379 --> 00:03:46.620 They're not in sort of fibreglass shells or anything like that. 34 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:51.900 They painted their arms for 3.5 , 4 hours every day to get that effect. 35 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:53.580 2 AM makeup calls kind of thing. 36 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:58.560 To use a slightly wankery term, the Mise on the Seine in these episodes is incredible. 37 00:03:58.620 --> 00:04:00.419 It just kind of slightly wanky. 38 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:02.879 You know me, James. 39 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:07.080 I think everything fits together so well, including the effects. 40 00:04:07.139 --> 00:04:18.180 I mean, we've had good effects in the past in New Doctor Who, but there's some like photorealistic about the effects on this episode and the way that they, the way that they fit into the live action, which is incredible. 41 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:32.339 Even minor things like the transporter effect from last episode and at the end of this episode where the soldiers teleport down to the planet, has done with this incredible swirling dust effect, just in the background with it's incredible. 42 00:04:32.399 --> 00:04:33.779 Interesting, but not dominant. 43 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:34.980 Yes, exactly. 44 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:36.899 The Wicked Witch of the West to appear. 45 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:37.920 Well, yes. 46 00:04:37.980 --> 00:04:46.439 And I mean, again, sorry to talk about last episode, but those upper levels of the maze of the dead, which look like they're part of the location. 47 00:04:46.500 --> 00:04:48.540 They fit so well into the scenes. 48 00:04:48.660 --> 00:05:01.139 The only thing, I suppose, if you want to be really, really, really nitpicky, and it's not really that important, but where you do get those shots of Amy's feet where she's trudging through the forest, it does look like potting mix. 49 00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:04.920 Like it's the soil is too rich. rather than it being a kind of a natural. 50 00:05:04.980 --> 00:05:08.639 It's that thing of it looks like a forest in a studio rather than a forest in a forest. 51 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:09.600 It is a real forest. 52 00:05:09.660 --> 00:05:10.920 It is a real forest. you're kidding me. 53 00:05:10.980 --> 00:05:12.060 It's puzzlewood. 54 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:12.540 Right. 55 00:05:12.540 --> 00:05:14.100 It's actually a real location. 56 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:16.199 Well, that's the richness of the English earth for you. 57 00:05:16.620 --> 00:05:19.079 Very recent... 58 00:05:19.139 --> 00:05:21.899 The reason you think it might be a set is that it's backlit so well. 59 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:22.860 Ah, right. 60 00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:29.519 At the risk of repeating myself from a previous episode that I did, Planet of the Dead, about spectacle. 61 00:05:29.579 --> 00:05:36.000 And I'm not opposed to spectacle at all, but I think why this story does it so well is that it's not about the spectacle. 62 00:05:36.060 --> 00:05:38.519 Everything looks spectacular and fantastic. 63 00:05:38.579 --> 00:05:41.819 But that's not the reason you're watching it. 64 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:44.220 It's casually so. 65 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:48.360 And I think that's why, you know, doctor is not about the spectacle. 66 00:05:48.420 --> 00:05:52.740 It's about the story, but in the modern era, of course, it all needs to be made in a spectacular way. 67 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:56.879 And I think that's the emphasis that I'm trying to heat on and I think this hits on it perfectly. 68 00:05:57.000 --> 00:06:15.000 The Cliffhanger resolution has one of the most surprising effect shots that we've ever had, which is that unbelievable pullback where, you know, we don't know what the doctor's plan is at the Cliffhanger. 69 00:06:15.060 --> 00:06:25.439 And then when we come back, we don't actually see the cliffhanger again, we just have the last time on Doctor Who, then the opening credits, and then suddenly we're standing on a different surface. 70 00:06:25.500 --> 00:06:30.720 The doctor claims we're in exactly the same place, but Amy doesn't know what it is. 71 00:06:30.779 --> 00:06:34.980 And then we pull back and the camera does a 180. 72 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:39.839 And so it is literally the story turns upside down. 73 00:06:40.379 --> 00:06:54.899 And that shot has not only the surface that they're standing on, which represents the nose cone of the Byzantium, it has the cave that they were in, and you can see the stairs and things that they've been climbing up. 74 00:06:54.959 --> 00:07:06.300 And it's a thing that Russell does as well, which is giving a story verticality, because the studio floor is flat, because the ground is flat. 75 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:17.279 This story, both halves of it are going up and the, the flip, you know, the, the big change between episodes is this sort of sudden change in their points of view. 76 00:07:17.339 --> 00:07:26.160 And I think that that shot, which is a deliberately spectacular effect shot, not a subtle sort of background one, which you might not notice. 77 00:07:26.220 --> 00:07:28.740 But it's telling the story. 78 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:30.660 Totally in service to the story. 79 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:31.680 Yeah, exactly. what I mean. 80 00:07:31.740 --> 00:07:38.220 And the other most spectacular effect shot, which is at the end, which has just all of those angels falling into the crack. 81 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:41.220 Again, I just think is remarkable looking. 82 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:45.060 It looked great when they did it in Army of Ghosts, Jimsday as well. 83 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:52.379 But one of the reasons why that shot, the 180, the spinning out and around, looks so good is the detail. 84 00:07:52.439 --> 00:07:54.660 They've thought about it all. 85 00:07:54.720 --> 00:08:04.500 And also when the doctor actually gets into the nose cone and, you know, all the gravity's the other way, it's actually so simply done and so effectively casually brilliant. 86 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:06.300 Without some, yeah, casually brilliant. 87 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:14.699 But, you know, thank goodness it wasn't some stupid kind of wobbly thing there. and he kind of all floats around and then he's standing upright. 88 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:17.759 Like you don't actually see the instant where you flip the garrity. 89 00:08:17.819 --> 00:08:19.319 And that's why I think it's just it's just nice. 90 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:28.500 And, of course, the gravity, which is the thing that resolves the cliffhanger and the very 1st thing that we're playing with is the thing that resolves the story. 91 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:31.079 And so it's set up straight away. 92 00:08:31.139 --> 00:08:37.200 So there's shenanigans about gravity and then he pays it off by making that the way that they resolve the plot. 93 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:42.659 And you know, good direction in modern Doctor Who is not just about being clever with your camera work. 94 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:43.740 It's also about editing. 95 00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:50.159 And I think that's something which is often slightly lacking in Doc 2 and in a lot of mid-budget television as well. 96 00:08:50.220 --> 00:08:57.539 Graham Harper gets the rhythm right in scenes and shots, and I think maybe later, Rachel Talele will as well. 97 00:08:57.539 --> 00:09:13.500 But here, Adam Smith, especially when you look at scenes like when they're in the spaceship corridor and the lights are going out and the angels are at the end and it's all just illuminated by gunfire, the editing on that is whip smart and, you know, is responsible for all attention in that scene. 98 00:09:13.620 --> 00:09:15.600 Yes, it's not just good shot choices. 99 00:09:15.659 --> 00:09:16.980 It's not just getting the good performances. 100 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:22.320 It needs to be edited in such a way that is engaging, but also you know what's going on. 101 00:09:22.379 --> 00:09:23.279 It's covered. 102 00:09:23.340 --> 00:09:28.620 You know that this is happening after that and this person's looking in that direction and talking to that person. 103 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:30.360 Sometimes you're right. 104 00:09:30.419 --> 00:09:34.919 I think in a lot of sort of mid-range modern television or mid-range television generally. 105 00:09:34.980 --> 00:09:36.659 Sometimes it's a bit sloppy. 106 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:45.899 That's right And here it's absolutely crucial to get the spatial relationships between everything right because that's entirely how the plot resolves itself. 107 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:49.379 And so we're going what looks like uphill. 108 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:54.539 I mean, it looks like that hatch is opening into a well that you could plummet all the way down. 109 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:56.159 And there's even dialogue about that. 110 00:09:56.220 --> 00:10:01.320 And of course, it's not, but it needs to be for the resolution of the story to work. 111 00:10:01.379 --> 00:10:03.299 It's tremendous. 112 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:08.580 You know, the resolution story was not achieved by building that set and having them hang off. 113 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:12.600 It was a wind machine and wires pulling their legs off the ground. 114 00:10:12.659 --> 00:10:13.559 Wow. 115 00:10:13.620 --> 00:10:14.159 Yeah. 116 00:10:14.220 --> 00:10:17.460 It's a good thing they didn't fall and might have gone all the way down into the swimming pool. 117 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:52.860 That scene in the control room, if we're going chronologically through the story, Matt entirely inhabits the character, in that moment, that you've just had moments of incredible drama and tension, and he just slumps into that chair in the middle, casually puts his feet up and starts talking to Angel Bob, and you think, you've nailed this character, and this might be, what, 2 weeks after those scenes on the beach, and he's just there. 118 00:10:52.919 --> 00:11:02.700 He's got sort of the best of Tom Baker and David Tennant, all the good things that they brought to the role, and they just add something else where he can change on a dime. 119 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:03.360 It's incredible. 120 00:11:03.419 --> 00:11:07.679 It's a changing on the dime that I think is makes him very powerful. 121 00:11:07.740 --> 00:11:19.080 See, my favourite thing is how he manages to convey anger or menace without the sort of David Tennant teeth acting in a very, very low key way. 122 00:11:19.139 --> 00:11:27.419 And the fact that he's normally playing at that register that makes it so shocking when he actually does shout. 123 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:28.799 It makes his anger seem righteous. 124 00:11:28.860 --> 00:11:29.940 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 125 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:39.659 We already talked about it in the beast below where that nobody human has anything to say to me today, which is absolutely terrifying, partly because it's directed at Amy. 126 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:46.860 But here, towards the end of the episode, and he's shouting at River and he's sort of hugely, hugely stressed. 127 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:49.500 I just think it's incredibly good. 128 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:54.059 And she, her reaction to it is sort of like properly taken aback. 129 00:11:54.120 --> 00:12:00.539 He's really scary when he's actually angry, but also he's written with black humour. 130 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:04.200 And it's something which Doctor Who hardly ever does, Tom Baker gets it. 131 00:12:04.259 --> 00:12:06.539 Like, you know, the line about Auntie Vanessa, have you seen her? 132 00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:07.320 Well, a little of her. 133 00:12:07.379 --> 00:12:14.519 And so Matt gets lines in the story, which are very dark, like when he says to Angel Bob, how's life? 134 00:12:14.580 --> 00:12:15.899 Sorry, bad subject. 135 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:18.360 And I'd love lines like that. 136 00:12:18.419 --> 00:12:19.500 They're just thrown away. 137 00:12:19.500 --> 00:12:42.720 Also, the sort of using sort of humour to diffuse the tension, like not just in a scene, but like on an emotional level to the character, when Amy is lying on the ground in the forest and she's got 12nd left to live and she's scared and he says, oh, you're dying. you dying. 138 00:12:42.779 --> 00:12:43.019 Shut up. 139 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:43.919 Yeah, yeah. 140 00:12:43.980 --> 00:12:44.519 Yeah. 141 00:12:44.580 --> 00:12:51.360 So we soon see that there's this incredible forest in the middle of the spaceship. 142 00:12:51.419 --> 00:12:53.340 It's an oxygen factory. 143 00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:54.419 Yes it's a forest. 144 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:57.480 But isn't that a clever bottle on a spaceship in a maze? 145 00:12:57.600 --> 00:12:58.559 I love that line. 146 00:12:58.620 --> 00:13:02.279 Have I impressed you yet, Amy Pond? 147 00:13:02.340 --> 00:13:03.179 It's so good. 148 00:13:03.299 --> 00:13:07.379 But isn't it a very clever way as well of changing the setting? 149 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:11.580 Without it being, 0 my god, more caves, more spaceship corridors. 150 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:16.379 We're going to go into forest now, and yet it's all entirely consistent, and it's fairy tale. 151 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:18.720 Fairy tales take place in the forest. 152 00:13:18.779 --> 00:13:31.980 And the thing that prevents this from being aliens is that the villains are statues of angels and Amy has to close her eyes in order to avoid getting attacked and sort of walk through a forest. 153 00:13:32.100 --> 00:13:33.419 They still have terrible teeth. 154 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:34.799 So it's still aliens. 155 00:13:34.860 --> 00:13:38.460 But it's lovely that she has to walk through the forest as if she can see. 156 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:46.259 So it's like the angels don't freeze because there's something coming out of your eyes that stops them from moving. 157 00:13:46.379 --> 00:13:48.659 They can see them. 158 00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:50.159 And that's actually very, very interesting. 159 00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:55.740 Yeah, I think that there is that sort of, you know, the observer effect. 160 00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:58.620 You can't observe something without changing what you're observing. 161 00:13:58.679 --> 00:13:59.580 Yeah, that's right. 162 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:08.700 So I think it is initially that, and there is some dialogue there saying, oh, they're busy or preoccupied or scared, and so they're just going to assume that you can see them so act like you can. 163 00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:12.779 Do you think if a tree fell in that forest that it wouldn't have happened because no one could see it? 164 00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:17.879 No, it didn't happen because the crack ate it. true. 165 00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:20.279 And that's the other thing here too. 166 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.419 We've seen the crack every episode since the 11th hour. 167 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:25.320 It's appeared. 168 00:14:25.379 --> 00:14:29.039 And this is the 1st time that Amy and the doctor see it. 169 00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:32.279 So in that control room, we sort of see it up there. 170 00:14:32.340 --> 00:14:39.539 We know it's been pursuing them and that it's been present in every location where they've appeared. 171 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:42.059 But now we actually see that. 172 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:53.279 And so this, even though it's not an arc story in any sort of proper sense, the arc intrudes in this story and actually becomes very important to its resolution. 173 00:14:53.399 --> 00:15:01.259 I love that word you used intrudes because it's very early on in a typical season for the arc story to become quite prevalent. 174 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:04.080 And Moffatt just, there's that word again. 175 00:15:04.139 --> 00:15:06.299 He's just clever in the way that he introduces it. 176 00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:10.200 It becomes intrinsic to this story and yet doesn't feel like it's not self-contained. 177 00:15:10.259 --> 00:15:21.779 And you've also had 4 years of sort of these arcs which are kind of conceptual or floating around in the background and hinted out and you don't really get to them until episode like 11. 178 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:32.039 And this is, well, you think that the arc is going to kind of float around and eventually pop up instead of episode 910 and it pivots the season. 179 00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:35.519 Yeah. and resolves the end of the story. 180 00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:50.700 I think it's a little bit like, so my previous favourite arc is the series 3 arc where the master travels back in time to sort of towards the end of series 2 and then he's sort of there throughout series three. 181 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:52.740 That's funny because mine was the arc. 182 00:15:55.019 --> 00:16:00.600 And that does intrude in the Lazarus experiment. 183 00:16:00.659 --> 00:16:04.740 So we do actually get the arc affecting the story and the Lazarus experiment. 184 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:09.960 But it's nothing like this and the arc is nothing like any arc that's happened before. 185 00:16:10.019 --> 00:16:15.720 And initially it is just a shape and some of it sort of doesn't make any sense. 186 00:16:15.779 --> 00:16:26.340 I don't know whether we're supposed to understand that, you know, for instance, Craig and Daisy Haggart are going to be eaten alive by the quick in their wall, you know, after the doctor leaves, clearly that doesn't happen. 187 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:29.100 So it's not quite clear what's happening. 188 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:31.019 We just end on his this shape again. 189 00:16:31.139 --> 00:16:34.620 They were quite grateful to have the crack because it ate the damp spot. 190 00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:43.259 You know, the crack was inspired by a crack in Moffatt, one of Moffatt's son's walls. 191 00:16:43.379 --> 00:16:47.279 He noticed this sort of crooked smile crack in the wall. 192 00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:51.179 Oh, it sounds like about the design of that. crack. looks quite ominous. 193 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:56.159 But he didn't tell his son that looked like a smile because he wanted him to be able to sleep again. 194 00:16:56.460 --> 00:17:01.620 Well, I mean, the crack does look like a scary mouth and it's got jagged edges and stuff. 195 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:02.700 And it eats things. 196 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:03.419 Yeah, yeah. 197 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:04.740 And it eats things. absolutely. 198 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:09.000 When it opens and closes in the 11th hour, it looks like a mouth. 199 00:17:09.059 --> 00:17:16.859 And so here having it kind of appear in the forest and having it eat people up. 200 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:19.740 It does actually become quite scary. 201 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:24.599 And this is the 1st time that the doctor kind of recognises what it is. 202 00:17:24.660 --> 00:17:25.859 It's the end of the universe. 203 00:17:26.220 --> 00:17:33.539 There's a key difference too, though, the way Moffatt does the arcs versus RTD in that Moffatt starts them from the very beginning. 204 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:37.259 Like the crack in the wall is kind of what the 11th hour is all about. 205 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:43.980 It's not like the others, which just gradually appear and dropped in as kind of teases throughout the season. 206 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:51.720 I have to say that if you're going to do an arc, and I'm not a huge fan of them by and large, but if you're going to do them, I think this is a much better way to do it. 207 00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:55.200 It feels more real rather than kind of stitched on. 208 00:17:55.259 --> 00:18:02.940 Yeah, well, I mean, Bad Wolf, you know, like there's a clever reason why the word's Bad Wolf keep appearing through series one and that's all sort of fine. 209 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.759 But in practice, what we get is just people repeating a word. 210 00:18:05.819 --> 00:18:07.619 So that's not all that exciting. 211 00:18:07.859 --> 00:18:10.440 Yes, it is a repeated meme. 212 00:18:10.500 --> 00:18:15.359 Whereas here, it resolves episode five. 213 00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:24.240 It plays a huge role at the end of the Silurian 2 parter, and then we find out something about it in the finale. 214 00:18:24.299 --> 00:18:31.500 So it's always visible and we learn more about it before we actually end up confronting it at the end. 215 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:39.660 There's a bit of a missed opportunity in this season to rip off a Star Trek episode, which sort of briefly happens when, you know, Amy's sitting there with her eyes closed. 216 00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:41.099 The TNG episode. 217 00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:45.299 Remember Me, where, you know, Beverly's trapped in a kind of an Alton universe, which is gradually contracting. 218 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:52.019 You could have done a whole episode, like one of the kind of doctor light type episodes where gradually everyone around them is disappearing. 219 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:54.059 There's something wonderful about who are you talking about? 220 00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:55.259 No, they were never here. 221 00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:56.039 What's that? 222 00:18:56.099 --> 00:18:57.480 It's actually really, really good. 223 00:18:57.539 --> 00:19:00.720 That is one of the best TNG episodes ever. 224 00:19:00.779 --> 00:19:01.500 I love that episode. 225 00:19:01.619 --> 00:19:04.680 And I know it would have been a ripoff, but Doctor Who rips stuff off all the time. 226 00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:09.779 And you do, for that, sort of, 3 or 4 minutes when Amy's realising that everybody's disappearing. 227 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:13.680 Yeah, and the idea of being left alone in the world is a very primal fear. 228 00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:19.019 It's what I am legend is based on that you're the last person. 229 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:21.299 There's no one to help you and you're totally alone. 230 00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:26.880 It's also the dark forest. you know, like the forest is where fairy tales happen. 231 00:19:26.940 --> 00:19:31.619 This is a dark forest where she's defenceless and people are leaving and disappearing. 232 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:35.819 And again, that disappearing thing, like it, science fiction, whatever. 233 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:37.559 It's magic, isn't it? 234 00:19:37.619 --> 00:19:49.319 And already we're introducing the theme of memory of forgetting and remembering, which resolves the entire series at the very end, and which is hugely important all the way through. 235 00:19:49.380 --> 00:19:51.059 Dry run for the silence. 236 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:52.680 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 237 00:19:52.740 --> 00:19:54.299 The silence do the same thing. 238 00:19:54.359 --> 00:20:03.180 And, you know, day of the doctor where the guy turns up to work and he thinks it's his 1st day because he can't sort of remember it because they've got those... 239 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:04.319 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 240 00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:09.839 I mean, we even had it in The Beast Below, where Amy literally votes to forget. 241 00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:14.819 And this episode, the focus shifts from the doctor to Amy. 242 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:16.259 So the episode's about Amy. 243 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:20.880 And I think it's so good for her and it's so good for Karen, who really pulls it off. 244 00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:27.660 So making Amy blind is a very Sarah Jane thing, and I don't just mean because of the brain of Morpius. 245 00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:35.759 It allows her to be vulnerable but brave at the same time and that's the DNA of the archetypal Doctor Who companion. 246 00:20:35.819 --> 00:20:37.440 And so Moffat zeros in on that. 247 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:45.000 I really like too, the acting that she's given the opportunity to do when she's counting down. 248 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:48.059 And it's so cleverly done. 249 00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:49.259 Another casually brilliant thing. 250 00:20:49.259 --> 00:20:57.660 So good because it is scary and ominous, and we discover the angels are making her do it because it's scary and ominous. 251 00:20:57.720 --> 00:20:58.200 Yes. 252 00:20:58.259 --> 00:21:06.960 But the way it works is someone will mention a number in dialogue, like Matt or River will say a number and then... something that sounds like a number. 253 00:21:07.019 --> 00:21:07.740 Yeah, yeah. 254 00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:08.339 And she'll say it. 255 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:12.900 And then there's that wonderful line where she says no, she says, I'm five. 256 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:14.940 No, no, no, I'm fine. 257 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:15.480 That's right. 258 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:16.259 I'm fine. 259 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:22.079 And she kind of realises it, which she hasn't before, and she's scared, but she's also trying to hide it. 260 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:26.099 I think she's incredibly good in this episode. 261 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:26.819 Yeah. 262 00:21:26.819 --> 00:21:28.740 She carries this episode, I think. 263 00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:34.980 The scene where she falls over in the forest, she can't find the communicator. 264 00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:41.160 You've had in dialogue earlier that like the transmat is kaput. 265 00:21:41.220 --> 00:21:42.839 There's no way of saving her. 266 00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:44.819 And then she falls over. 267 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:46.859 And she's blind. 268 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:48.059 She can't open eyes. 269 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:48.720 She going to die. 270 00:21:48.779 --> 00:21:55.740 And the angels start turning their heads and the fear that she has in her voice. 271 00:21:55.740 --> 00:22:04.019 Like, she is going to die, except for that, like, the Deus X Mashina that sort of saves her. is brilliant. 272 00:22:04.380 --> 00:22:15.299 We did briefly mention that now for the 1st time, the audience don't count as observers and so we can actually see them moving. 273 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:28.920 And I think the reason in story that we see them moving is that Amy can't see them, is to emphasise how defenceless she is against them, because she can't see them, we're able to see them move around her. 274 00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:32.700 And it's super shocking when we 1st see it, isn't it? 275 00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:43.319 I think it's possible to watch Blink and not realise that we don't see the angels moving even when no one else is observing them. 276 00:22:43.380 --> 00:22:46.740 It's a super clever conceit in blink. 277 00:22:46.859 --> 00:22:52.319 And then just to have it happen here just absolutely amps up the tension. 278 00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:56.160 And it's super, super terrifying that scene. 279 00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:57.900 And it's just wonderfully resolved. 280 00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:06.900 We have had that sort of conversation between the doctor and river where river says that the teleport is kaput that it won't work. 281 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:11.700 And then the doctor comes up with the plan of getting her to walk to the control room. 282 00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:18.000 And River says that's never going to work and the doctor just absolutely turns on her and shouts at her. 283 00:23:18.059 --> 00:23:18.960 And it's so shocking. 284 00:23:19.019 --> 00:23:24.660 Yeah, and actually it's the doctor who says the teleport won't work and it's River who says, no, I can make this work and does. 285 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:26.579 Yeah, that's true, actually. 286 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:27.779 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 287 00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:29.039 And of course, she's not useless. 288 00:23:29.099 --> 00:23:31.740 Like she's as good as the doctor. 289 00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:33.480 And of course she wasn't going to let her mother die. 290 00:23:33.539 --> 00:23:34.920 Well, we don't know that yet. 291 00:23:34.980 --> 00:23:35.640 Spoilers. 292 00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:39.359 It's nice when the angels start to move because it flips the perspective. 293 00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:59.700 Normally, in Doctor Who terms or in scary story terms, if you're the person who's hiding from the monsters, you keep as still as possible, and if you think they're gone, you might slowly start to move to peer around a corner to see if they're there or whatever, it's the other way around, the angels are still, because Amy's there, and they're very slowly starting to move to check his. 294 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:00.900 Can she not see us? 295 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:02.279 Are we okay to kill? 296 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:03.539 right over there? 297 00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:05.640 She got muddy shoes. 298 00:24:20.700 --> 00:24:34.920 One thing that we didn't touch on when we were briefly mentioning the scene where Amy's dying, you know, the doctor and river are there with their iPhone, sort of whatever, checking her pulse and stuff like that. 299 00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:35.940 Mini-chlo level. 300 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.279 Yeah, we've got the latest Apple Watch. 301 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:42.359 So, you know, they head off and then the doctor comes back. 302 00:24:42.539 --> 00:24:46.259 And we don't know that that's actually from a later point in his timeline. 303 00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:47.640 Yeah, we think it's continuity error. 304 00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:48.480 Yeah, yeah. 305 00:24:48.539 --> 00:24:56.400 So when he reaches out to grab her, his sleeves aren't visible, you just see his arms grab her and then he's speaking to her. 306 00:24:56.460 --> 00:25:06.599 But in the background, you can see, and it's just part of the shot that's out of focus, that he's wearing the tweed jacket that was taken off him by the angels. 307 00:25:06.660 --> 00:25:13.140 And a less confident director, an episode would have shown you that costume in full to beat you over the head with it. 308 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.119 Yeah, I think I think that's right. 309 00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:21.180 And it shows an understanding of how the show is watched in an era when there's the internet. 310 00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:26.400 And so a couple of days time we were all talking about why he's wearing the jacket when it's not there. 311 00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:29.519 And the assumption was it's a continuity. 312 00:25:29.579 --> 00:25:30.900 There was a pickup and they stuffed it up. 313 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:31.680 Yeah, yeah. 314 00:25:31.740 --> 00:25:45.900 But the things that he says to her, don't actually properly make sense in the context of the episode because he's talking to her about you have to trust me and you have to remember. 315 00:25:46.019 --> 00:25:49.740 Remember what I said to you when... 316 00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:56.700 But that's the brilliant thing about it, is that he hasn't had that conversation with her yet. 317 00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:00.539 We assume he's talking about the 11th hour. 318 00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:09.119 Like something he said to her when she was 7 in his 1st story, but he's actually referring to a conversation he hasn't had yet in the season finale. 319 00:26:09.180 --> 00:26:10.200 Yeah. 320 00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:10.980 Yeah. 321 00:26:11.099 --> 00:26:13.680 And like I'm going to lay my cards on the table. 322 00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:17.279 I think the season finale is extraordinarily brilliant. 323 00:26:17.339 --> 00:26:18.539 Oh, yes. 324 00:26:18.539 --> 00:26:20.039 Massively, massively interesting. 325 00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:24.299 If only because they destroyed one of those terrible darling props. 326 00:26:24.359 --> 00:26:25.799 We're getting ahead of ourselves. 327 00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:40.740 You know, I've done a fair bit of bitching about Ed Thomas over the course of the new series, the fact that he was always heading out to Cardiff Alleyways and that paper mill. 328 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:41.519 I think he lives there. 329 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.180 But what a great job he does on this episode. 330 00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:47.099 The spaceship interiors are amazing. 331 00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:53.880 The forest may be, and I know that that's a location, but the way that it's presented on screen is absolutely incredible. 332 00:26:53.940 --> 00:27:07.740 Um, and I think, you know, if you doubt that the importance of design to Doctor Who, go back to an episode like The Doctor's Daughter, where it fails the episode completely, and compare and contrast with this episode. victory of the Daleks. 333 00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:09.539 Yeah, pretty much. 334 00:27:09.660 --> 00:27:13.500 It must be quite difficult for them to get that set up. 335 00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:17.160 The ship whole in the forest. 336 00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:27.839 It's in Puzzlewood, uh, It's a heritage listed forest, like it would have been quite difficult to not damage it. contemplated grass. 337 00:27:27.900 --> 00:27:28.200 Yeah. 338 00:27:28.259 --> 00:27:34.200 So the scene in the secondary control room where we look out onto the forest is obviously it's all just... 339 00:27:34.259 --> 00:27:34.619 Green screen. 340 00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:35.160 Yeah, yeah. 341 00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:46.980 But there is the scene where Octavian is killed has the wall of the primary control room visible. 342 00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:49.380 Yeah, do you know, I think it might be green screen on occasions. 343 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:55.619 There might be one or 2 shots where you've got it green screened into the back with Matt, but I think it might be simpler than that. 344 00:27:55.680 --> 00:28:02.819 I think they might have set up that little bit of the door on location so that the actors could physically walk out of it. 345 00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:05.460 And if you're going to ask me any one thing. 346 00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:10.079 I didn't like about this two-parter because I think it is magnificent. 347 00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:14.279 I might home in on the fact that I think that's a little simplistically covered. 348 00:28:14.339 --> 00:28:15.599 It's very shot reversed. 349 00:28:15.660 --> 00:28:18.000 It could have been done a little bit more seamless. 350 00:28:18.059 --> 00:28:19.559 Well, just stepping over the threshold into the forest. 351 00:28:19.619 --> 00:28:20.220 That's right. 352 00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:25.079 And then cutting back to the spaceship and then cutting back to that, you very rarely see them in the same shot. 353 00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:26.460 You know what it reminds me of? 354 00:28:26.579 --> 00:28:28.079 Nightmare of Eden? 355 00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:31.200 Yeah, that's what Brian wanted me to say. 356 00:28:32.220 --> 00:28:33.839 Well, exactly. 357 00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:36.059 I said, if I'm going to defend the original series. 358 00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:38.099 I can't be using Nightmare of E. as an example. 359 00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:52.140 I have to say that I think there's a bit of confusion about just the physical relationship between everything because it looks like where the doctor and river have gone is where the crack is, but it clearly is sort of off to the side somewhere. 360 00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:56.940 And I think it's probably a bit hard to sort of establish that in the forest where we are. 361 00:28:57.059 --> 00:29:02.400 But I did kind of get a bit lost in the sort of spatial relationships and stuff this time. 362 00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:04.319 Yeah, I did too. when I watched it through. 363 00:29:04.380 --> 00:29:06.660 But not, no, no, no, yeah, yeah. 364 00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:12.839 I think that scene with Father Octavian is absolutely extraordinary. 365 00:29:12.900 --> 00:29:18.839 And the interesting thing I noticed this time is it's entirely the doctor's fault that he gets killed. 366 00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:33.480 So he's saying let's go in through the hatch and the doctor's standing there theorising about what the crack is, you know, and and thinking allowed and all of that sort of thing. performing to an audience that isn't there at the other side. 367 00:29:33.539 --> 00:29:34.680 Showing off. 368 00:29:34.740 --> 00:29:35.819 Yeah, exactly showing off. 369 00:29:35.880 --> 00:29:37.500 And then suddenly he's caught. 370 00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:44.160 But I will say, because, I mean, Ian Glenn is not someone who I particularly like as an actor only because of Game of Thrones. 371 00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:47.880 Every time he pops up on the screen, I just keep seeing him saying Khaleesi. 372 00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:56.519 And it just sort of, you know, it was just sort of endlessly repetitive, but he's very, very good in this, in this story and his death sequence is, is actually really well done. 373 00:29:56.579 --> 00:29:59.579 For someone who's basically saying, no, doctor, go save yourself. 374 00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:02.160 Leave me, I'll just die here and keep the head them off. 375 00:30:02.220 --> 00:30:04.859 It's actually a nice version of that. 376 00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:06.539 And it's a restatement of the character. 377 00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:07.500 Exactly. 378 00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:08.220 And his principles. 379 00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:10.799 And it's the Keeley whores rule from It's a Sin. 380 00:30:10.859 --> 00:30:16.619 It's weird overcasting for what he's done so far in the story, but then it's made by that final scene. 381 00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:21.119 And then you hear the crack of his neck as the doctor rushes. 382 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:41.819 I think too, you know, the doctor has been dismissive of the church's attitude towards sort of sexual ethics, but the story absolutely kind of locates his bravery and his ability to face death within his religious beliefs. 383 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:45.720 You know, there's a there's a kind of redemption there. 384 00:30:45.779 --> 00:30:54.779 You know, this is a church that's an army, they're sort of crazy and maybe the bus of some sort of low-key jokes. 385 00:30:54.839 --> 00:31:03.839 But he's super brave and spectacular in that final scene. stoic because he believes he's going on to something else or something better. 386 00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:06.660 And is there not an exchange of dialogue? 387 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:10.859 I can't remember who says which line about, I wish you'd seen the best of me. 388 00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:12.720 No, so it's Matt. 389 00:31:12.779 --> 00:31:15.960 It says to him, I wish I'd known you better. 390 00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:21.359 And he says, I think you've seen me at my best. and that's a beautiful exchange. 391 00:31:21.420 --> 00:31:27.359 And think about, you know, the many, many times that David Tennant's doctor says, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. 392 00:31:27.420 --> 00:31:36.480 Whereas Matt says, I wish I had known you better because he was sort of a bit dismissive of him as the kind of lead soldier. 393 00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:38.579 And then Matt tears up. 394 00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:42.359 You know, like it, Matt tears up before going into the thing. 395 00:31:42.420 --> 00:31:46.140 Like, it's incredible to have the doctor that affected by the death of a minor character. 396 00:31:46.200 --> 00:32:06.299 The thing I like too, about the, you know, the doctor doing a bit of teasing and being a little bit dismissive of, you know, the religion and the military sort of stuff is I think it pictures that sort of thing at the right level as well in terms of, you know, that there are certain things about religion and about the military, which are problematic, but at the same time, you know, there's a lot of good about them, et cetera, et cetera. 397 00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:09.359 And I think that they get the tone wrong later. 398 00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:13.500 And well, they have gotten the tone wrong with that at other times. 399 00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:17.759 And I think this is this is kind of a, I think hits it on the right spot. 400 00:32:17.819 --> 00:32:23.759 Isn't there always a sense the new doctor wipes the slate clean a little bit and has like a fresh start? 401 00:32:23.819 --> 00:32:32.460 And this is almost like the 1st time this series that Matt is facing the fact that the 11th doctor is facing the fact that his actions have consequences? 402 00:32:32.579 --> 00:32:34.019 Yeah. 403 00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:37.799 I think that there's no particular problem with just wiping the slate clean. 404 00:32:37.859 --> 00:32:52.500 When we do the lodger later this season, it's really apparent that the doctor doesn't really know how human beings interact with one another. despite the fact that John Pertwe spent, you know, 3 years or 5 years or whatever, exile to Earth, and I don't care. 405 00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:53.880 At the club with top. 406 00:32:54.240 --> 00:33:09.539 Sorry, just that other thing about Ian Glennon, about Octavian, is that wonderful line where he says to the doctor, something to be, I'll be the one who has to tell their fam- think about that when I have to tell their families about their death. 407 00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:10.980 It's a lovely... 408 00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:13.019 It sort of shows that the doctors missed something. 409 00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:13.920 It's nice. 410 00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:15.720 It's a point that's been made before too. 411 00:33:15.779 --> 00:33:18.779 And it's also one that Moffat returns to in series 10. 412 00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:27.240 I think in thin ice where there's a whole exchange between Bill and the doctor about you just move on and Bill has to deal with that and process that. 413 00:33:33.539 --> 00:33:48.839 So the angels all sort of fall into the crack and close it, because they're a complicated space-time event, which I think is a terribly magical and bid median sort of way of describing. 414 00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:50.880 It's great. the anti-technobabble. 415 00:33:50.940 --> 00:33:52.200 Yeah, yeah, it's really good. 416 00:33:52.319 --> 00:34:07.079 But that actually happens quite early in the episode and we actually do have the time to say goodbye to river for a start on the beach in a scene that I think is also really magnificent. 417 00:34:07.140 --> 00:34:09.300 You, me, handcuffs. 418 00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:11.880 Why does it always have to end this way? 419 00:34:11.940 --> 00:34:17.280 My favourite line is where the doctor says, can I trust you? 420 00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:19.260 And she says, if you like. 421 00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:21.900 Which I would be the fun in that. 422 00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:23.340 It's so wonderful. 423 00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:24.360 It's so great. 424 00:34:24.420 --> 00:34:32.699 And that's where, you know, it's made very clear that it's the doctor that River's going to kill. 425 00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:35.699 And I think the doctor probably realises that as well. 426 00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:39.000 It's romantic comedy banter 101. 427 00:34:39.179 --> 00:34:42.059 That's squarely in Moffatt's wheelhouse. 428 00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:52.500 It's the biggest indication, I think, that kind of dialogue of the shift from Russell to Moffat because that's dialogue that Russell's not that interested in, but Moffat can just reel it off. 429 00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:53.340 Yeah, yeah. 430 00:34:53.400 --> 00:35:05.340 It's that scene that made me fall in love with Moffatt's version of this show. is just the dialogue and the interplay between the characters. 431 00:35:05.460 --> 00:35:08.880 And I was not totally on board until the end of this episode. 432 00:35:08.940 --> 00:35:10.500 I think it's beautiful. 433 00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:13.380 I also think the doctor and Aemia are really wonderful together. 434 00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:21.179 You know, the revelation that she's climbed down with her eyes closed. because he hasn't mentioned. 435 00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:26.460 I told you, like, you know, in dialogue about 45 minutes ago. 436 00:35:26.519 --> 00:35:29.880 That's the thing with Mickey keeping his finger on the switch, isn't it? 437 00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:31.679 I forget to tell him to take it off. 438 00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:36.059 But there are some beautiful shots as well of the 2 of them standing together. 439 00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:44.400 In a way, it almost looks like a publicity shot or a statement of this is what the doctor and his companion look like. 440 00:35:44.460 --> 00:35:52.980 You know, you know, every season so far, we've had a big publicity shoot and we've seen what the doctor and the companion look like. 441 00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:59.099 And here, there's a real definite sense that they're equals, you know, they're the same height. 442 00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:02.820 They're both young, you know, they're both attractive. 443 00:36:02.820 --> 00:36:09.900 And just that scene where they're shot from behind and they're looking out over the sea, I think, is beautifully composed. 444 00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:12.659 That's also only important things that this story does. 445 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:15.900 And I have to think it was intentional on Moffat's behalf. 446 00:36:15.900 --> 00:36:34.440 In the 1st few episodes, Amy is in awe of the doctor, and here, by looking at the example of River, her daughter, as we'll find out, she ceased being in awe of the doctor, and she is now knows that she can treat him as an equal in some ways, and prod him a little bit, and it sets the template for the rest of their relationships. 447 00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:37.199 Are you being Mr. Grumpy fixed? 448 00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:38.280 Yes. 449 00:36:38.340 --> 00:36:40.739 I actually think that that's already there a little bit. 450 00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:42.000 I've mentioned it before. 451 00:36:42.059 --> 00:36:48.420 It's that moment where the doctor's eating fish custard and little Amelia just looks at him and it goes, hmm, funny. 452 00:36:48.420 --> 00:36:57.239 Like, and I think too, that that is some of the source of the fan discomfort about Amy is that she refuses to be in awe of the doctor. 453 00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:08.400 But I mean, that was what we liked about Donna, was that you had this sort of grandstanding showboating doctor and Donna's constantly sort of puncturing him. 454 00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:12.420 This is a much more low key version of the same thing. 455 00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:15.059 And I think it's just tremendous. 456 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.760 And possibly the problem that people picked up on with Martha. 457 00:37:17.820 --> 00:37:22.739 You know, there was never any great problem with Martha, but the fact that she is too in awe of the doctor. 458 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:23.099 Yeah. 459 00:37:23.099 --> 00:37:23.699 Yeah. 460 00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:25.380 Yes, it's just not very interesting. 461 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:42.059 So, we should talk about the final controversial final scene. 462 00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:43.679 Speaking of not being in awe of. 463 00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:53.519 I think that Moffat has gone on record saying he wouldn't have done this now or he thinks that it was a mistake. 464 00:37:53.579 --> 00:38:05.639 Not necessarily that the scene wouldn't have happened, but the writing it as a screwball, almost literally, comedy. was the wrong move. 465 00:38:05.699 --> 00:38:15.719 I mean, Moffatt always does that, and rule one is that Moffatt lies, and he's constantly kind of going back and saying, no, I didn't like what I did here. 466 00:38:15.780 --> 00:38:18.059 I'm you know, I'll do something different going on. 467 00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:24.420 But I actually think that the scene works in a way. 468 00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:38.099 I'm not super on board with the idea that Amy falls in love with her imaginary friend, um, and that she seems to, um, you know, she seems to already fancy him in victory of the Daleks. 469 00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:42.360 There's a dialogue about it where she's talking to Bracewell. 470 00:38:42.420 --> 00:38:44.699 But I think it is a pretty funny scene. 471 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:46.500 I think Moffat had a problem with that as well. 472 00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:48.300 He regretted writing that bit as well. 473 00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:55.019 There's also the sequence in 11th hour where she watches him undress and says, look away. 474 00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:55.320 No. 475 00:38:55.559 --> 00:39:01.139 I don't I don't read that and I don't think it's supposed to be read as she's in love with him. 476 00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:06.840 She's just like, oh, this funny raggedy man that, you know, was my imaginary friend. 477 00:39:06.900 --> 00:39:07.559 He's kind of hot. 478 00:39:07.619 --> 00:39:09.840 Yeah, she is playing sexual desire. 479 00:39:09.900 --> 00:39:10.920 It's not it's not love. 480 00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:12.179 And that's what this is. 481 00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:13.619 I mean, that's what this is. 482 00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:16.199 She has sort of nearly died. 483 00:39:16.260 --> 00:39:33.480 And something important has happened in this episode to change their relationship because she's been running away from her wedding, from her impending adulthood into the arms of her, you know, imaginary childhood friend in order to be sort of irresponsible. 484 00:39:33.539 --> 00:39:43.500 And I think she says that it's because she sees river, his relationship with river, he's running away from river, he's running away from his wife, you know, as well. 485 00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:47.639 And so she admits to him what's happening here. 486 00:39:47.699 --> 00:39:53.760 And so this is this is kind of the low point of Amy and Rory's relationship. 487 00:39:53.820 --> 00:40:03.900 So when we 1st meet them, she's embarrassed about Rory and won't admit that he's her boyfriend. 488 00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:08.159 And here, she admits that she's not marrying the good looking one. 489 00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:16.260 Oh, that thing with the nose, which was ad-libbed by by by Matt Smith. 490 00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:17.460 He's nice too. 491 00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:22.139 And then she sort of tries and gets her leg over the doctor. 492 00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:25.019 And I think it's actually, it is properly funny. 493 00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:28.860 I appreciate what it's trying to do more so than I did at the time. 494 00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:30.840 I've had a todd evolution on this. 495 00:40:30.900 --> 00:40:32.039 It used to be a four. 496 00:40:32.099 --> 00:40:32.940 It now a 7.2. 497 00:40:33.059 --> 00:40:43.739 I like the boldness of it because it's really Amy's, Amy's running away from her life and this is her last ditch attempt to just turn her back on it and move on. 498 00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:46.139 Whereas the doctor correctly identifies. 499 00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:47.400 You can't turn your back on it. 500 00:40:47.460 --> 00:40:48.420 You've got to face it. 501 00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:53.880 Tony, it's a little bit jarring with the rest of the episode. 502 00:40:53.940 --> 00:40:54.900 I think that's intentional. 503 00:40:54.960 --> 00:41:06.659 The bigger problem, I think, is that it's slightly icky in a Me Too world, because Amy is clearly making moves on the doctor that he doesn't want, and I think that hasn't worn well. 504 00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:09.539 But it does end with that wonderful line. 505 00:41:09.659 --> 00:41:15.599 The most important thing right now is Amy Pond is that I sought you out. 506 00:41:15.780 --> 00:41:17.280 Jesus. 507 00:41:17.340 --> 00:41:19.440 That's what I've been telling you. 508 00:41:19.500 --> 00:41:20.340 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 509 00:41:20.340 --> 00:41:25.019 Which is funny. you know, it's great rom-com kind of, you know, snafu. 510 00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:27.179 It just, it slightly misses. 511 00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:28.559 It doesn't miss by a long way. 512 00:41:28.619 --> 00:41:29.400 It's slightly misses. 513 00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:39.900 I actually secretly love the line where he's explaining that there's 2 lines where he's explaining that he'll change and doing that whole thing that he says to Sarah. 514 00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:42.360 Say, you know, I'll, you'll grow old. 515 00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:43.739 I'll just change. 516 00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:49.739 And she goes, oh, doctor, how sweet that you thought I was thinking of something, you know, or I wasn't thinking of something quite so long to... 517 00:41:49.739 --> 00:41:54.659 And also the where he says, I'm 907 years old, do you know what that means? 518 00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:57.059 She says, well, it's been a while. 519 00:41:58.139 --> 00:42:07.860 Like all of that is actually properly funny and it's where the doctor kind of leaps into action and decides to fix their relationship. 520 00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:22.199 It's again, it's an example of what we were talking about before, where the humour is being used to, as a relief, as a release from the tension of the whole episode. 521 00:42:22.260 --> 00:42:24.539 It's like things can get better. 522 00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:29.460 You can try and jump your your imaginary friend from when you're 7 years old. 523 00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:30.179 Yeah. 524 00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:33.480 I think it's also possible to sort of take it a little bit too seriously as well. 525 00:42:33.539 --> 00:42:34.980 I mean, yeah, I wouldn't have done it. 526 00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:43.559 I probably wouldn't wish they didn't do the sequence, but, you know, at this moment, Rory is on his bucks night, which, you know, the doctor's about to crash by bursting out of the cake. 527 00:42:43.619 --> 00:42:48.420 Now, it would have been some kind of scant-clag young woman, I imagine, who was going to be bursting out of the cake. 528 00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:49.079 Tracy. 529 00:42:49.139 --> 00:42:49.860 She's a diabetic. 530 00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:51.059 Oh, I do beg your pardon. 531 00:42:51.119 --> 00:43:02.579 But the point is all Amy is doing is asserting her kind of sexuality and having the last fling, as it were, which men have been encouraged to do for many a year, less so now. 532 00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:08.460 But the tradition of the bucks night is to basically, effectively have your last extra marital affair before you get married. 533 00:43:08.460 --> 00:43:13.619 And all Amy's doing is kind of taking that bull by the horns and doing it herself. 534 00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:15.659 As she says, she's not after anything long term. 535 00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:16.920 She just wants to have a shag. 536 00:43:16.980 --> 00:43:21.119 She had this incredibly impossible adventure where she almost died. have a shag and move on. 537 00:43:21.179 --> 00:43:28.320 And the doctor is hot, you know, like Matt Smith's doctor isn't weird looking, but he is young and pretty in a way. 538 00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:30.480 If you fancy drunk giraffes. 539 00:43:30.539 --> 00:43:36.360 And the show has long since decided not to ignore that fact, you know. 540 00:43:36.420 --> 00:43:37.559 And I think that's perfectly fine. 541 00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:43.199 Do you think Moffat is having fun at Russell's expense with the companions falling in love with the doctor? 542 00:43:43.260 --> 00:43:43.739 Yes. 543 00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:44.579 Maybe, yeah. 544 00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:46.079 Maybe, I don't see it. 545 00:43:46.139 --> 00:43:49.260 It's refreshing that she's not in love with him. 546 00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:52.619 She thinks he's hot and she wants a shack. 547 00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:57.780 And he plays the emotional basis, the whole underpending of previous seasons as a one scene joke. 548 00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:05.820 Yeah, I think I think the other thing too, which is sort of fun, is that that David Tennant's doctor is kind of sexually confident. 549 00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:12.239 Like he has, he's had Queen Elizabeth I, you know, which Moffat keeps going back to, actually. 550 00:44:12.300 --> 00:44:20.400 Whereas this doctor is absolutely kind of clueless and I just think that's kind of super funny. 551 00:44:20.460 --> 00:44:23.340 My my feeling about this scene is that it works. 552 00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:25.019 It's super funny. 553 00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:35.039 I think people get annoyed at Amy for being so much more sexual than any previous companion. 554 00:44:35.099 --> 00:44:35.940 Do you know what I mean? 555 00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:38.639 I mean, that's yeah. effectively what I was meaning. 556 00:44:38.699 --> 00:44:39.719 Yeah, I agree with that. 557 00:44:39.780 --> 00:44:41.099 And I think she is. 558 00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:43.860 I also think she takes it slightly too far. 559 00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:44.699 The character does. 560 00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:50.159 Yeah, but I think that he just kind of gets carried away with the joy of writing rom-com dialogue. 561 00:44:50.219 --> 00:44:52.800 Yes, and there was no one there to tell him to dial it back basically. 562 00:44:52.860 --> 00:44:54.059 Then you're so good at it. 563 00:44:54.119 --> 00:44:55.199 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 564 00:44:55.260 --> 00:44:55.500 Why not? 565 00:44:55.500 --> 00:45:07.800 But I think its problem is not the scene itself. because of the seasons we've had before and the fact that Rory is not just going to have been in one or 2 episodes, he's going to join the Tartar crew. 566 00:45:07.860 --> 00:45:18.179 And I think it just for a moment undermines their relationship in a way that you're always questioning for the rest of the time whether Amy's actually falling in love with the doctor. 567 00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:39.300 I mean, and there's whole sequences about Rory questioning whether she actually feels for the doctor more than she feels for him, except that I think that we'll have vampires of Venice next week, then we'll have Amy's choice, and from then on, it's sort of an ever given a choice between the doctor and Rory, Amy unfailingly chooses Rory. 568 00:45:39.539 --> 00:45:42.719 Until the Dalek story. in series. 569 00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:44.460 No, but even then, do you know what I mean? 570 00:45:44.579 --> 00:45:56.699 And again, this is the doctor fixing their relationship and he does exactly the same thing after being told that the doctor, your job is to fight monsters, not to fix our marriage, but he fixes it anyway. 571 00:45:56.760 --> 00:46:04.440 This is very empathetic and self-aware for a doctor who in the lodger won't even know how to coexist with somebody else in a flat. 572 00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:07.619 How could you coexist with James Corden? 573 00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:09.059 Yeah, yeah. 574 00:46:09.059 --> 00:46:13.079 And I'm not saying that what you just said is not wrong because it's entirely right. 575 00:46:13.139 --> 00:46:17.940 I'm just saying that it's easy to kind of forget that that's all the structure and how it evolved. you know what I mean? 576 00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:20.099 You keep remembering this. 577 00:46:20.219 --> 00:46:25.980 And you remember this because you remember the fact that Rose and Martha were in love with the doctor and wanted to shag it every time. 578 00:46:26.039 --> 00:46:26.639 That what I'm saying. 579 00:46:26.699 --> 00:46:27.840 I just feel like, oh, here we are again. 580 00:46:27.900 --> 00:46:33.059 I think because this season is about Amy's relationship with her own adulthood. 581 00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:35.099 You know, we see her as a child. 582 00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:36.719 We see her as a child again. 583 00:46:36.780 --> 00:46:44.760 You know, she escapes the night before assuming the adult role of wife with her childhood imaginary friend. 584 00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:59.639 And the resolution of the entire series is her accepting her adulthood and integrating her childhood sort of fantasy world into that as well in a sort of really sort of triumphant synthesis. 585 00:46:59.699 --> 00:47:04.500 So I think her sexuality is an important element of that arc. 586 00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:08.519 So you might almost say that the emotional arc of the series is Amy's choice. 587 00:47:20.579 --> 00:47:24.780 All right, so it's part two of a two-part story. 588 00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:26.280 So it's time for peaks of the week. 589 00:47:26.340 --> 00:47:27.300 James. 590 00:47:27.539 --> 00:47:30.780 Well, my pick of the week, surprise, surprise. 591 00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:31.619 Have you met me? 592 00:47:31.619 --> 00:47:33.539 is a big finish audio. 593 00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:36.059 It was released about 5 years ago. 594 00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:40.679 It's from their classic doctor's new monsters range. 595 00:47:40.739 --> 00:47:47.639 It's a 5th doctor story featuring Michelangelo and the Weeping Angels. 596 00:47:47.699 --> 00:47:49.260 It's called Fallen Angels. 597 00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:51.119 It's quite enjoyable. 598 00:47:51.179 --> 00:47:53.699 And you'll like this, Peter. 599 00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:59.460 Sasha Dawan plays one of the bit part characters, your future ex-husband, I believe. 600 00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:03.059 So yes, I check that out. 601 00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:06.179 Or any any of the Diary of River song. 602 00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:06.840 Brilliant. 603 00:48:06.900 --> 00:48:08.219 Peter? 604 00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:19.440 My pick of the week is Bridgerton, simply because series 3's a Joa Ando, fabulous, and time heist, Jonathan Bailey, hot, and there we go. 605 00:48:19.500 --> 00:48:20.880 And naked, yes. 606 00:48:20.940 --> 00:48:22.380 Which one, Joe? 607 00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:31.019 I think this one may have been mentioned before, but I think it's definitely worth mentioning again, is the time traveler's wife. 608 00:48:31.079 --> 00:49:01.679 It was originally a book in 2003, but it was made into a film in 2009 with Eric Banner and Rager McAdams, and it's that thing of these 2 people are having a relationship in the wrong order because Eric Banner's character is floating through time, and it's obviously where all the inspiration has come from for River song, but it's good to see it. having seen all of the Doctor Who related stuff because it obviously has does have a different take on it and it does work differently. 609 00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:10.079 And the film is actually very, very good, but it just kind of disappeared a little bit when it was released in 2009 didn't get much much. into a crack. 610 00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:11.400 Yeah, that's what happened. 611 00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:21.239 Well, I'm going to pick something fairly obvious, which is it's a sin, which by the time you hear this, it will have been out for some months. 612 00:49:21.300 --> 00:49:23.699 And if you've already watched it, watch it again. 613 00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:41.699 Well, one of the things is that I had expected it to be sort of fairly harrowing because the premise is that it's set in London, a small group of friends in the 1980s, sort of as HIV becomes a thing and as gay men start dying of AIDS. 614 00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:46.440 And so it seems like it's going to be a premise that's super upsetting. 615 00:49:46.440 --> 00:50:13.440 And it is, it is quite upsetting, but I would go back and watch it again in a heartbeat because I adore those characters and there's some real warmth and humanity and some proper lessons that we've forgotten about perhaps the way that gay men were treated and regarded in the 1980s, things that we find it easy to forget now, but that are definitely worth remembering. 616 00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:19.980 We were, some of us, well, all of us were around in the 1980s, um, to something. 617 00:50:19.980 --> 00:50:22.019 I'm from 1980. 618 00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:22.679 That's right. 619 00:50:22.739 --> 00:50:30.719 And so some of us perhaps experienced some of this stuff early on, but just being reminded of the scale of it is absolutely worthwhile. 620 00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:34.139 In an interesting kind of turn of fate. 621 00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:36.300 I'm rereading all of the tales of the city. 622 00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:44.940 I just hit significant others, which is the book where Michael Tolliver tests positive. 623 00:50:44.940 --> 00:51:00.719 And I haven't watched It's a Sin yet, but I find that diff- that book's so difficult to start because it's so, it is so harrowing, but the humour by the end of it has, you know, lifted you out of that. 624 00:51:00.780 --> 00:51:10.019 And even away from the melancholy of it's a sin and the upsetting content and the real moments of comedy. 625 00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:11.699 It's the best iteration. 626 00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:27.000 I think I've seen of that phenomenon where gay men historically, maybe not so much now, but historically, um, were rejected by their families and so had to create their own family, um, and it just feels incredible for that. can cause that the logical family. 627 00:51:27.059 --> 00:51:28.199 Yeah, yeah. 628 00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:30.539 Your biological family, a neological family. 629 00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:34.800 And it's a huge, It's a very good example of it in it's a sin. 630 00:51:34.860 --> 00:51:41.039 It does all of the things that Russell does so well, including making you very scared and upset. 631 00:51:41.099 --> 00:51:46.920 But it's not, it's not cynical or exploitative. 632 00:51:46.980 --> 00:51:50.760 And like I said, I would gladly watch it again. 633 00:51:50.820 --> 00:51:51.900 I think it's extremely good. 634 00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:15.900 Well, there, listen, that's all we have time for this week. 635 00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:25.019 We'll be back next week to watch the doctor take on the exciting new roles of Stripper and Relationship Counsellor in the Vampires of Venice. 636 00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:41.039 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook, at FT Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, and Jody into Terror. 637 00:52:41.579 --> 00:52:48.780 Until next time, may you always find yourself holding on to someone lovely when the gravity gives out. 638 00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:51.780 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 639 00:52:51.840 --> 00:52:53.820 That sounds like my last Saturday night. 640 00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:54.780 Good night. 641 00:52:54.840 --> 00:52:55.739 Bye for now. 642 00:52:59.880 --> 00:53:05.880 That was Flight for Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffith, Simon Moore, and James Selwood. 643 00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:08.039 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 644 00:53:08.099 --> 00:53:14.760 This episode, Spatial Relationships, was recorded on the 6th of February 2021 and released on the 11th of April. 645 00:53:18.059 --> 00:53:34.320 Fans of the complex asynchronicity of the Doctor and River's relationship can recreate the same experience in their own homes by watching Doctor Who under the guidance of the Randomiser, which you can find at the Randomiser.net and on Twitter at DW Randomiser. 646 00:53:35.699 --> 00:53:39.780 I think the season finale is extraordinarily brilliant. 647 00:53:40.440 --> 00:53:42.599 Massively, massively interesting. 648 00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:47.579 If only because they destroyed one of those terrible darling props. 649 00:53:47.639 --> 00:53:48.960 We're getting ahead of ourselves. 650 00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:53.820 I have to say that because Brendan says it. 651 00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:56.639 Oh, right, okay. trademark. 652 00:53:56.699 --> 00:54:01.079 Well, it's so spectacular because it's the 1st one that's, you know, good. 653 00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:02.340 No, no, no. 654 00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:04.079 All the previous ones are marvellous. 655 00:54:04.199 --> 00:54:06.960 But this is marvellous in a completely different way. 656 00:54:07.019 --> 00:54:08.579 It's marvellous because it's actually good. 657 00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:11.099 We think there's some cleric scene because that was heresy. 658 00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:15.900 I like to stir. 659 00:54:15.900 --> 00:54:19.619 What do we need to talk about? 660 00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:25.679 Oh, by the way, can you think of a, I should have, this is me throwing it at you. 661 00:54:25.739 --> 00:54:28.199 The thing, pics of the week. 662 00:54:28.260 --> 00:54:29.460 Yeah, don't do it now. 663 00:54:29.460 --> 00:54:31.619 No, but I need to... 664 00:54:32.099 --> 00:54:35.639 I need to know whether I need to know whether it's one that you've done before. 665 00:54:35.699 --> 00:54:36.960 Have you done Time Traveler's Wife? 666 00:54:37.019 --> 00:54:37.440 No. 667 00:54:37.500 --> 00:54:38.579 Okay, well I'll mention that then. 668 00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:40.139 Oh, maybe, have we? 669 00:54:40.199 --> 00:54:43.320 Well, I mean, he did W1I and I read that. 670 00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:44.039 So, yeah, yeah. 671 00:54:44.099 --> 00:54:44.519 Just do it. 672 00:54:44.579 --> 00:54:45.360 It's been a while ago. 673 00:54:45.420 --> 00:54:45.780 Yeah, yeah.