WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:55:35 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.780 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety. 2 00:00:39.899 --> 00:00:45.060 The only Doctor Who podcast, which makes you dangerous to yourself when we're around. 3 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:46.920 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:46.979 --> 00:00:47.700 I'm James. 5 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:48.659 I'm Todd. 6 00:00:48.780 --> 00:00:49.619 I'm Karen. 7 00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:58.740 Well, this week we're all hiding inside this giant cake, ready to burst forth and either fix or ruin Amy and Rory's relationship. 8 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:03.539 Will a romantic trip to a recently plague free Venice help? 9 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:09.780 Let's find out, as we spend some quality holiday time, with the vampires of Venice. 10 00:01:24.840 --> 00:01:32.939 So, Karen, are you pro Matt Smith jumping out of a cake or anti Matt Smith jumping out of the cake? 11 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:34.859 I'm going to have to say pro. 12 00:01:34.980 --> 00:01:40.980 I watched it last night for the 1st time in a long time and I hadn't laughed so hard for so long. 13 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:44.219 It's a great moment It is, it is. 14 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:48.000 Just the look of total confusion on his face just adds to it, really. 15 00:01:48.060 --> 00:01:50.879 He's trying to help, isn't he? 16 00:01:50.939 --> 00:01:58.859 And he sort of stuffs it up by telling literally everyone there that he's kissed Amy and then he thinks he'll fix that by saying she's a great kisser. 17 00:01:58.920 --> 00:02:00.719 And then he just sort of stands there. 18 00:02:00.780 --> 00:02:08.400 And it's so well edited because we're made to feel uncomfortable just waiting for the shot to end. 19 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:18.780 And he does something random with his like right hand to like brush some paper out of the way or something and he sort of gulps and stuff, but he absolutely nails it, I think. 20 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:21.240 He's like one of those friends that you have. 21 00:02:21.300 --> 00:02:24.960 You absolutely love them dearly, but they just make your face palm a lot. 22 00:02:25.020 --> 00:02:27.000 Whilst I agree with you. 23 00:02:27.060 --> 00:02:34.259 In terms of the editing of that, like, you know, it does make you sort of like embarrassed us to what's going on. 24 00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:37.800 I actually find the ending of that really just, I'm kind of going, what? 25 00:02:37.860 --> 00:02:39.419 Like, that's sort of the end of it. 26 00:02:39.479 --> 00:02:41.219 Like, I don't find it awkward. 27 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:43.020 I just find it badly edited at that point. 28 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:47.219 It just sort of ends and I just don't like that bit of editing. 29 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:49.319 See, I think it's a deliberate choice. 30 00:02:49.379 --> 00:02:54.419 And I think what this what this teaser does is it subverts the normal Doctor Who teaser. 31 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:56.699 So we've had the normal Doctor Who teaser. 32 00:02:56.819 --> 00:03:02.460 And is originally scripted and and edited. 33 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:14.099 It was actually Isabella screaming going into the title sequence and they decided to flip it and make it, you know, a comedy opening instead. 34 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:16.560 And so that's the teaser. 35 00:03:16.620 --> 00:03:31.080 As you watch it, the teaser is very clearly, Guido presenting Isabella to Rosanna, and then he leaves or is dragged out or whatever, and then she screams when she sees Francesco's fish teeth. 36 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:34.319 And that's absolutely meant to be where the titles are. 37 00:03:34.379 --> 00:03:40.020 And instead, we intercut with Rory screaming at the same time at his sort of buck stew. 38 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:43.500 And then we get this sort of ludicrous scene. 39 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:51.360 And so the editing there where you're just kind of sitting there for a 2nd going, why aren't the opening credits coming in? 40 00:03:51.419 --> 00:03:58.500 Like that's a deliberate sort of attempt to make us feel as awkward as that situation sort of clearly is? 41 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:06.000 And so, you know, like I reckon that the teaser is always about what the episode's going to be about. 42 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:19.259 And so a teaser that's all about Rosanna and Isabella and stuff gives the wrong impression because this is an episode about the doctor trying to fix Amy and Rory's relationship with varying degrees of success. 43 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:23.160 Everybody keeps looking at me at this point. 44 00:04:23.220 --> 00:04:29.519 I actually think the whole, the way which is, the Amy Rory thing is it treated is, is like a rom-com. 45 00:04:29.579 --> 00:04:30.060 Yeah. 46 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:31.560 And I don't think it's real. 47 00:04:31.620 --> 00:04:34.740 Like it actually an, it's a double-edged sword. 48 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:39.180 Like, I'm just going to say this, like, you've got Rory treated as a eunuch. 49 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:47.100 Then Rory is just as good to be her brother rather than her actual lover, and then Rory's little light thing is smaller than the doctors. 50 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:49.319 And then Rory is saved by her. 51 00:04:49.379 --> 00:04:51.360 At no point in this at all. 52 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:52.860 Does she ever say I'm sorry for this? 53 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:54.600 She never says I love you to Rory? 54 00:04:54.660 --> 00:04:55.019 No. 55 00:04:55.079 --> 00:05:01.259 And I think for me, watching it the 1st time through, this is the episode that did the most damage to Amy's character. 56 00:05:01.379 --> 00:05:03.420 I just thought you're a selfish cow. 57 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:08.100 And, um, and it doesn't make Rory feel like a real person. 58 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:15.240 In fact, I don't think Rory feels like a real person, probably until he's plastic, and their relationship isn't real until that point either. 59 00:05:15.300 --> 00:05:21.779 But, as I said, it's a double-edged sword because imagine if you started with, let's sit down and let's talk about this. 60 00:05:21.839 --> 00:05:23.160 I mean how boring would that be? 61 00:05:23.220 --> 00:05:25.319 So I actually really enjoy this episode. 62 00:05:25.379 --> 00:05:29.699 And I find a lot of those things very funny, but at the same time, I do have a problem with... 63 00:05:29.699 --> 00:05:30.660 At the expense of the character. 64 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:31.680 Well, that's what I feel. 65 00:05:31.740 --> 00:05:46.680 And, you know, I've said in the past that I've had a problem with Amy and I've had a problem with Karen's performance, but I'm actually really liking Karen's performance this season because I watched past this as well and I think she does a great job at comedy and she actually plays this episode really well, but she can only play what's written. 66 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:47.100 Yeah. 67 00:05:47.100 --> 00:06:00.180 And so yeah, so for me, the one negative in this is that I just don't, I just feel that it's treated like a rom-com sitcom and it does a real disservice to her character for me in this. 68 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:01.860 That actually makes sense. 69 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:03.540 Now that you say it. 70 00:06:03.660 --> 00:06:12.300 Because it's been so long since I've watched, I just sort of took it at face value and didn't think too deeply into it, but I can see exactly what you're getting at with that. 71 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:13.019 It's quite true. 72 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:19.980 I mean, we're going to talk next week about, I think, how that issue is solved. 73 00:06:19.980 --> 00:06:30.120 That that in fact, by the end of next week, it's very, very clear that Amy prefers Rory over the doctor. 74 00:06:30.180 --> 00:06:32.699 In this episode, it's still touch and go. 75 00:06:32.699 --> 00:07:00.240 And I think that scene, whether in Guido's place where they're arguing over who should accompany Amy to the school, and it's just assumed by Karen that the doctor should play her fiance, and then assumed by Karen that Rory should play her brother, and then Guido interjects and says, oh, I thought you were, you know, the doctor were the fiance. 76 00:07:00.300 --> 00:07:02.879 So Whitehouse is sort of a comedy writer. 77 00:07:02.879 --> 00:07:05.759 And Moffatt definitely is a comedy writer. 78 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:11.579 And so I think, yeah, we don't get a kind of level of realism about the relationship here. 79 00:07:11.699 --> 00:07:13.980 It is kind of being played for laughs. 80 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:18.060 And I do think next week it won't be played for laughs. 81 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:26.639 And from next week onwards, it becomes clear that whenever Amy is given the choice between Rory and the doctor, she will always choose Rory. 82 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:40.139 And also next week, and sort of fairly kind of implausibly, I think, Amy will say to Rory, I love you for the 1st time. which seems odd the night before their wedding. 83 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:41.279 But whatever, you know. 84 00:07:41.339 --> 00:07:54.420 Yeah, well, I mean, I can see that because it's pretty clear earlier than that, that she is very hesitant about getting married and I don't think it's because she doesn't like or love Rory. 85 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:58.439 I just think it's one of those moments where you think, holy crap, am I at that stage already? 86 00:07:58.500 --> 00:07:59.519 Yeah. 87 00:07:59.579 --> 00:07:59.819 Yeah. 88 00:07:59.879 --> 00:08:04.680 Well, I think this is about kind of escaping adulthood by regressing into your childhood. 89 00:08:04.740 --> 00:08:08.579 It's um, it's a whole season of Doctor Who is the Runaway Bride. 90 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:09.180 Yeah. 91 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:23.939 Yeah, but I mean, she's running away deliberately in order to avoid adulthood and the doctor kind of has started to be aware that this is all going wrong. and he wants to fix it, but he doesn't manage it really at all this episode. 92 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:34.379 It's just interesting because like next week, I don't know if she actually says, I love you to Rory, like when he's actually there, I thought he's actually dead by that stage and she says, I never said, I love you. 93 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:35.399 Right? 94 00:08:35.460 --> 00:08:41.639 And so, and he says it to her and like she will die for him, but I, even next week's episode, which I dearly love. 95 00:08:41.700 --> 00:08:44.100 I still don't quite feel it at the end of it. 96 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:45.419 I mean, that's just me. 97 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:55.379 And it's only actually when she's with Vincent and the doctor. when I really feel it and think she does a wonderful job and you realise how much she does love Rory at that point. 98 00:08:55.440 --> 00:09:02.759 So for me, I've still got these next few episodes with Wory where I still think that he's a mechanism for her plot lines. 99 00:09:02.820 --> 00:09:04.139 He's not really a real person. 100 00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:09.600 It's still moving all the pieces of the puzzle into the correct positions for the end of season. 101 00:09:09.659 --> 00:09:17.460 So I guess that's the one thing I'm finding about this season and this sequence that, for me, difference from your opinion, Nathan. 102 00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:32.460 Well, I wonder whether it does, because I think maybe you're right, because we've been spoiled by 5 years of Russell T. Davis writing sort of warm human relationships that we can really kind of believe on a sort of TV level. 103 00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:40.980 And now you've got Stephen Moffatt, who's a sitcom writer and a sort of general smart ass, writing complicated plot lines and that kind of thing. 104 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:46.080 And so it's unsurprising that for a lot of people, these episodes don't land. 105 00:09:46.139 --> 00:09:50.399 And you're certainly not the only person I've spoken to who doesn't like this episode. 106 00:09:50.460 --> 00:09:53.460 No, I like this episode a lot. 107 00:09:53.519 --> 00:10:00.059 It's just that that aspect of it, when I think about it, it leaves a bit of a bit of taste in my mouth. 108 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:01.980 I actually thoroughly enjoyed watching this. 109 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:07.919 I think Helen Macquarie is just phenomenal as the villainess of the piece. 110 00:10:07.980 --> 00:10:11.039 Matt Smith is knocking it out of the ballpark. 111 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:13.019 And the comedy stuff is really, really good. 112 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:14.220 Plus the location. 113 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:18.899 I mean, when they land, like in Venice, which is not actually Venice, Croatia. 114 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:20.100 Yeah, yeah. 115 00:10:20.100 --> 00:10:22.500 But I think that's just wonderful. 116 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:26.519 And the use of the psychic paper there, yes, it's at the expense of Rory, but it's so funny. 117 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:31.139 Yeah, I'm a huge fan of this episode as well. 118 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:39.419 Like not just the sort of comedy sitcom relationship staff, but just the actual plot. 119 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:42.659 And, you know, like next week, we wake up and it's all a dream. 120 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:45.840 Like next week, the plot's going to be sort of fairly thin. 121 00:10:45.899 --> 00:10:50.399 But this is a proper Doctor Who episode, I think, that they managed to do at the same time. 122 00:10:50.460 --> 00:10:58.980 Yeah, it sort of has the same feeling of the old historicals they used to do in some places worse written in some places better written. 123 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:00.960 It flows quite well. 124 00:11:01.019 --> 00:11:06.240 Yeah, I kind of get a mask of Mandragra vibe from this story. 125 00:11:06.299 --> 00:11:11.460 You know, the Italians setting. the fabulous costumes. 126 00:11:11.580 --> 00:11:12.240 Yeah. 127 00:11:12.299 --> 00:11:15.179 Yeah, it's really, I mean, it looks, it looks fantastic. 128 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:24.240 I think this is actually the 1st time that I've watched Vampires of Venice since I've actually been to Venice for the 1st time, right? 129 00:11:24.299 --> 00:11:29.279 And, you know, like it's not always 100% super convincing. 130 00:11:29.340 --> 00:11:36.840 It's not a feature film or anything like that and they didn't go to Venice and some of the canals are sort of fairly clearly CG'd in there. 131 00:11:36.899 --> 00:11:42.000 So the canals are actually the moat of carefully castle. 132 00:11:42.059 --> 00:11:42.659 Okay. 133 00:11:42.659 --> 00:11:49.440 And then they composited them together with the Croatian filming. 134 00:11:49.500 --> 00:11:50.279 Right, right. 135 00:11:50.340 --> 00:12:06.240 There's one fantastic moment where Francesco dives into the water and we cut away just before he lands, and it's actually a sort of stylish directorial choice, but absolutely kind of compulsory because there wasn't any water there for him to fall into. 136 00:12:06.899 --> 00:12:10.019 But I think it looks amazing. 137 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:11.519 I just think it looks so good. 138 00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:15.539 This is the same recording block as Vincent and the doctor. 139 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:16.740 Yeah, but it's the same. 140 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:24.539 It's the same town. and they filmed Vincent in the hills around... 141 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:24.960 Right. 142 00:12:25.019 --> 00:12:28.440 And that was actually part of the Venetian Empire originally. 143 00:12:28.500 --> 00:12:31.980 So it's got kind of appropriate, you know, architecture. 144 00:12:32.039 --> 00:12:32.220 Yeah. 145 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:34.500 For the most part, I actually agree with you. 146 00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:39.059 I think I didn't even realise that a lot of those were composite shots with the water and that sort of thing. 147 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:40.080 I actually did not realise that. 148 00:12:40.139 --> 00:12:41.220 And I think that's how good it is. 149 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:49.379 Plus, the costumes, like the girls were wearing and the guards and even the over top stuff that mother and son are wearing. 150 00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:52.799 I just think just sell it completely. 151 00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:53.399 Yeah. 152 00:12:53.399 --> 00:13:01.139 So that scene when they 1st land and they're next to the Grand Canal, there's no water there. 153 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:15.000 That is, like it's a, it's a town square and they, they cut the scenes together so that just below the sort of the ledge where the water is, like it's just more ground. 154 00:13:15.059 --> 00:13:15.240 Right. 155 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:16.740 Like they just added it all together. 156 00:13:16.860 --> 00:13:18.779 It's really quite well done. 157 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:20.639 Photographically it works really, really well. 158 00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:21.600 Yeah. 159 00:13:21.659 --> 00:13:25.799 I do find there's 2 things that I don't like about the visual effects. 160 00:13:25.860 --> 00:13:30.360 One is the way in which, uh, is it Francesca? 161 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:36.600 The sun is sort of killed off within like the light beaming like a 2nd by Amy, which I think is far too quick. 162 00:13:36.659 --> 00:13:39.480 And I don't think is, for me, that convincing. 163 00:13:39.539 --> 00:13:46.139 The other is when the doctor is up on the weather vane roof thing, that looks pretty ropey. 164 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:53.279 It's one of those ones where you kind of think this is actually a bit more ambitious than they're capable of pulling off. 165 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:57.840 But then you kind of remember, essentially, Doctor Who's always kind of done that. 166 00:13:57.899 --> 00:14:00.480 And so I was prepared to give that a pass. 167 00:14:00.539 --> 00:14:05.340 So he's climbing up the campanile. in St. 168 00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:08.519 Mark's Square, which is absolutely recognisable. 169 00:14:09.059 --> 00:14:11.460 And of course, it has to happen there. 170 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:14.879 That's like the Empire State Building in New York or something. 171 00:14:14.940 --> 00:14:17.460 It's you know, the most salient landmark you can think of. 172 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:33.539 Yes, it's like David Tennant climbing up to the top of of the Empire State building without falling and now Matt's climbing up this without falling in this rain and CG, whereas Tom can climb up something, but unfortunately, Lou's grip, like, without really losing. 173 00:14:33.539 --> 00:14:34.980 And then be harassed by all his companions. 174 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:38.519 I mean, it's a very David Tennanty kind of resolution. 175 00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:52.740 Like the big hero moment and all of that sort of thing. you know, fiddling with a big mechanism and stuff while there's thunder and all of that sort of thing and then pulling a tiny, tiny switch on it, the smaller switch available to turn it off. 176 00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:59.759 Though it's not quite a David Tennant RTD ending because it doesn't all end in one big explosion. 177 00:14:59.820 --> 00:15:00.840 It just kind of fizzes out. 178 00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:16.139 There's a speech that the doctor gives Rosanna when he confronts her for the second time. 179 00:15:16.259 --> 00:15:30.360 We should talk about how they play against each other because I think they're amazing, but there's an absolute David Tennant speech where he says he's going to tear down the house of Calvieri stone by stone because Helen McCrory didn't know Isabella's name. 180 00:15:30.419 --> 00:15:32.159 It's so tenanty. 181 00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:35.700 And he delivers it so absolutely differently. 182 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:38.159 It's I've written down here in my notes. 183 00:15:38.220 --> 00:15:40.740 It's just, I just found it extremely effective. 184 00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:41.220 Yeah. 185 00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:50.639 And it's because Matt is delivering it in a different way, but I just think they work so well together and it's such a shame they only have like a couple of major scenes, but they're delicious. 186 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:54.720 She really gets her teeth stuck into things, doesn't she? 187 00:15:54.779 --> 00:16:14.759 I mean, she's going to deliver quite a bit of ongoing plot too, about, you know, running from the silence and the cracks and and it's like, she knows about the doctor, which I find quite interesting, you know, and also to like the silence, you know, in memory of the children lost to the silence. 188 00:16:14.820 --> 00:16:15.840 They're trying to build this up. 189 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:21.779 I don't think it pays off as to what the science actually become. 190 00:16:21.899 --> 00:16:23.399 How does she remember them? 191 00:16:23.460 --> 00:16:24.299 Exactly. 192 00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:26.159 And why are they killing all of her children? 193 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:27.899 But they're the silence. 194 00:16:27.899 --> 00:16:31.500 And this is the silence. don't think so. 195 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:34.980 You're grasping at straws there. 196 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:37.620 Remember when I was talking about those face palming moments? 197 00:16:39.659 --> 00:16:41.100 Yes. 198 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:49.379 Look, I really enjoy Helen McCrory and everything she I'd ever seen her and she's such a delightful actress. 199 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:57.120 And she has such depth to sort of the character she plays, I think. 200 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:05.519 I think here, the striking things about her are, firstly, that she genuinely doesn't think she's doing anything wrong. 201 00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:11.160 And it's not, it's not the sort of, she's not a megalomaniacal villain or anything like that. 202 00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:15.660 She's going to kill 100s of 1000s of people, but she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong. 203 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:20.819 And right at the end, she says, you know, one city for an entire species. 204 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:28.980 And, and that's not, like, obviously that's, that's morally wrong, but it's not crazily wrong. 205 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:30.720 She's differently moral. 206 00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:32.279 Yeah, yeah, she's differently moral. 207 00:17:32.339 --> 00:17:36.539 And so she doesn't think she's a villain and she doesn't really quite get why the doctor won't help her out. 208 00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:37.200 Yeah. 209 00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:51.900 But the other thing is, that she and the doctor are the same, that both of them are, in a sense, they're not quite the last of their species because she's got Francesco and she's got the husbands and all of that. 210 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:57.480 But they're both kind of people who fled from a planet that's been destroyed. 211 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:01.380 So they kind of understand one another. 212 00:18:01.500 --> 00:18:12.960 And the way that's played is that they actually sort of circle one another and smile at one another all the time, and particularly her, you know, she's got this incredible smile. 213 00:18:13.019 --> 00:18:16.440 And I think it works really well because it's an older woman and a younger man. 214 00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:18.599 Like there's something super nice about it. 215 00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:28.140 She also very specifically modelled her movements in her behaviour on like a predatory fish. 216 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:37.440 No, they're like, I mean, like, there's this whole thing where, like, she actually had, you know, how they, like, they were a piranha. 217 00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:49.680 Yeah, yeah, but how they were always doing like cyberman training or sort of like movement training for, you know, this type of alien, that type of, I mean, they actually they worked with her to get her to move like a fish. 218 00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:52.680 Did you know they actually contacted Rosalind de Winter? 219 00:18:52.740 --> 00:18:53.640 I believe she could help. 220 00:18:55.019 --> 00:18:57.119 She was unavailable. 221 00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:59.279 Nathan, you're quite right. 222 00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:05.700 Like, I think she's a really, she's, she's one of those villains that's not just out to destroy everything and take over everything. 223 00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:08.220 It's a much smaller scale. 224 00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:09.839 She's not out to destroy everybody. 225 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:12.059 She's not necessarily evil. 226 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:13.259 She's just trying to save her people. 227 00:19:13.380 --> 00:19:15.660 And but she's also quite clever. 228 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:19.559 Like the whole Amy and Rory think they're going to trick her, right? 229 00:19:19.619 --> 00:19:21.720 With the psychic paper and she plays them. 230 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:23.160 Yeah, yeah. 231 00:19:23.220 --> 00:19:29.099 And you don't necessarily see that coming a lot of the time with Dr. Hubilans these days in the new series. 232 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:32.339 Like the psycho paper will work on lots of people, so she's cleverer than that. 233 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:35.460 And I really like that about the episode. 234 00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:38.339 But I also like all the little things in this episode. 235 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:44.279 There's so many little bits of dialogue that are just so sweet, like, you know, Casanova liked Venice. 236 00:19:44.339 --> 00:19:47.039 Yeah, you know, that's sort of like a reference to David Tennant. 237 00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:51.539 That marvellous scene where the doctor is looking for the Calaveri girls. 238 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:54.900 And suddenly it's a jump start because they're behind him and he has to look around. 239 00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:55.740 I think that's wonderful. 240 00:19:55.799 --> 00:20:00.240 And then his whole William Hart and all library card. 241 00:20:00.299 --> 00:20:01.380 Yes, yes. 242 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:03.359 Well, that little stuff just adds. 243 00:20:03.420 --> 00:20:04.259 Do you remember that? 244 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:07.200 That was the 1st time that we saw Matt Smith in action. 245 00:20:07.259 --> 00:20:11.400 He was on like Friday night with Jonathan Ross or something. 246 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:13.319 They used that clip. 247 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:22.799 Yeah, it was like it was the week before the 11th hour aired in in sort of March 2010. and the clip was released. 248 00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:26.039 So we didn't see Jonathan Ross. obviously, but the clip was released. 249 00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:36.000 And so it was the 1st time that we saw Matt Smith's doctor in action, and it is while the girls are there, and he's looking in the mirror, and he's pulling a face, like looking at his teeth and stuff. 250 00:20:36.059 --> 00:20:40.079 It was a good little tie in with Casanova because one of the girls was actually in Casanova. 251 00:20:40.140 --> 00:20:40.619 Oh, really? 252 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:41.099 Yeah. 253 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:48.660 Helen McCrory played Heath Ledger's Casanova's mother and the film... 254 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:53.160 But I mean, that's it. is a terrific scene for him, isn't it? 255 00:20:53.220 --> 00:20:57.660 Because he's, we get that sort of weird physicality. 256 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:03.960 You know, whenever he sort of spins around and his hands are sort of weird and stuff like, so we get to see how odd he is. 257 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:08.700 We get to see how just sort of fun and enthusiastic he is. 258 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:15.420 And we get to see him sort of confront a villain and not be kind of frightened or anything, just being sort of terribly excited. 259 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:17.460 That's what I love about Matt. 260 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:20.819 He's such a, an unusual mover, I guess. 261 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:22.079 He's awkward. 262 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:25.740 Well, he looks awkward, but he pretty much dances across the screen. 263 00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:26.579 Yeah. 264 00:21:26.579 --> 00:21:30.299 When you think he's going to fall flat on his face, he doesn't. 265 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:30.839 Yeah. 266 00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:35.819 I think I think it's that and his tendency to underplay a big moments, which are really great. 267 00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:39.000 But the comedy is not just restricted to him. 268 00:21:39.059 --> 00:21:43.079 I actually think that Arthur Darville has quite a lot of comedy in this. 269 00:21:43.140 --> 00:21:45.480 Like, you know, when he's sitting on that the gunpowder. 270 00:21:45.539 --> 00:21:47.400 He just shuffles off to one side. 271 00:21:47.460 --> 00:21:48.180 It's very subtle. 272 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:52.079 It's, and, um, um, the sword fight. 273 00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:54.000 Yeah, the sword fight. 274 00:21:54.059 --> 00:21:55.500 I mean, he has to do physical stuff. 275 00:21:55.559 --> 00:22:00.420 I find that a bit, let's just play Rory for a complete fool, but he does a really great job of it. 276 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:08.819 I love the fact that he is just so unconvincing and an imbecile in front of Rosanna trying to palm off his sister. 277 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.599 Like it's, I really find that scene really hilarious. 278 00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:17.039 Just he does a deadpan delivery of lines that when he's not convinced that he's going to be convincing. 279 00:22:17.099 --> 00:22:17.880 Do you know what I'm saying? 280 00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:18.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 281 00:22:18.539 --> 00:22:29.099 And he doesn't quite, like, they're still speaking sort of modern day English and stuff in Venice in 15 and 80, but he's not doing the sort of period drama sort of speaking that he needs to be doing. 282 00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:33.779 And so he's just speaking, sort of modern day English really awkwardly and stuff. 283 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:39.359 And then he just ends that speech with sort of really embarrassed cheers, you know, at the end of it. 284 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:40.619 Yeah, I think he's really great. 285 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:50.039 That scene ends with that fantastic moment where he leaves and Amy is there and we just see Francesco out of focus in the background. 286 00:22:50.099 --> 00:22:51.299 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 287 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:52.799 Yeah, yeah. bearing his fish teeth. 288 00:22:52.859 --> 00:22:58.680 And then I think the next scene is like having Isabella's father in Rory's stag shirt. 289 00:22:58.740 --> 00:22:59.700 Yeah, yeah. 290 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:00.539 I love that. 291 00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:02.700 So great. 292 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:22.619 In fact, what's really terrible is, um, you know, he's wearing that stupid shirt when his daughter fails to escape, um, from the Calvieri sort of household, and he's absolutely gutted, and so the actors having to play grief wearing the stupid, stupid shirt. 293 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:27.420 But I think it's really tragic that both his daughter and him die. 294 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:29.160 Like it's, we don't get a happy ending. 295 00:23:29.339 --> 00:23:43.799 No, we never do, but I don't know, for me, it would have been part of me would have liked her to have been able to come out into the light and them to escape, but obviously he has to sacrifice himself to get rid of all the girls. 296 00:23:43.859 --> 00:23:44.640 Yeah. 297 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:53.880 When I was rewatching it, I had forgotten that she died and I was gutted because you, you know, you feel for him. 298 00:23:53.940 --> 00:23:55.200 You don't really know her. 299 00:23:55.259 --> 00:23:55.980 Yeah. 300 00:23:55.980 --> 00:24:00.000 But you feel for him and you're like, I just completely forgot. 301 00:24:00.059 --> 00:24:03.420 I hadn't watched this for like 10 years and it's just horrible. 302 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:10.319 Like, is this one of the stories where practically it, not every, every guest artist dies. 303 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:11.339 Yeah. 304 00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:18.779 Yeah, I think the harbour master or whatever the guy who, well, maybe he sort of vanishes in the final scene because we'll talk about that at the end. 305 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:20.160 I'm not quite sure what's going on there. 306 00:24:20.220 --> 00:24:21.839 But basically everyone dies. 307 00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:29.339 And it is kind of super thin in that you've got Isabella, you've got, um, Guido, you've got Francesco and you've got Rosanna. 308 00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:34.140 You've basically only got 4 guest characters, which is 3 more than we'll get next week. 309 00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:35.099 Fishwives. 310 00:24:35.099 --> 00:24:38.039 And just sort of various fish people. 311 00:24:38.099 --> 00:24:40.559 And they are they are all killed. 312 00:24:40.619 --> 00:24:52.440 And I guess Isabella needs to be killed because we need to see what's going to happen when Rosanna kills herself the same way at the end of the episode. 313 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:55.019 And her death scene is great. 314 00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:56.759 She's got this incredible voice. 315 00:24:56.819 --> 00:25:10.980 She's been really kind of a damsel in distress for the whole episode, but when she gets to sort of proudly stand there and declare that she's Venetian, and she's got an excellent voice, she's so cool, and she really pulls it off. 316 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:11.940 I really like it a lot. 317 00:25:12.779 --> 00:25:21.599 Remind me, do the, all the male fish people who eat their victims. 318 00:25:21.660 --> 00:25:22.559 Do they survive? 319 00:25:22.619 --> 00:25:23.640 No. 320 00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:24.720 How do they die? 321 00:25:24.779 --> 00:25:25.680 die out. 322 00:25:25.740 --> 00:25:29.819 So all the male fish people just die out. 323 00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:32.700 Yeah, because they've got nothing to eat. 324 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:36.720 Could they eat other people who go in the canal in the meantime? 325 00:25:37.019 --> 00:25:39.960 Am I misremembering the end of the episode people? 326 00:25:40.019 --> 00:25:43.319 Well, there's no females there anyway, so they can't breed anyhow. 327 00:25:43.380 --> 00:25:44.160 So... 328 00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:45.000 Yeah, die of old age. 329 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:46.500 Or starvation. 330 00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:50.700 I mean, maybe they've already eaten all the other fish in the in the canals. 331 00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:51.720 Yeah. 332 00:25:51.779 --> 00:25:54.480 Yeah, maybe they just died out last year. 333 00:25:54.480 --> 00:26:07.200 And so those fake pictures of porpoises in the canals in Venice or whatever weren't because of the pandemic at all, but were in fact, because all of the Calviri sons had died out. 334 00:26:07.259 --> 00:26:10.740 They're basically the Humboldt Squid in the Gulf of Mexico. 335 00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:23.279 So, so, yeah, I think I think the idea is that they die out, although I do like the idea that they maybe are deadly fish monsters in the canals in Venice for a little while after 15 years. 336 00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:24.900 Yeah you don't go swimming in there. 337 00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:58.680 There's also that scene where Rory confronts the doctor, as they're going into rescue Isabella, and he says that the doctor makes people dangerous to themselves because they want to impress him. 338 00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:06.779 It's a very significant piece of dialogue from somebody who's only met the doctor briefly, don't you think? 339 00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:11.160 Yeah, and I think I think it needs to be in a way. 340 00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:12.180 Do you know what I mean? 341 00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:24.299 Because you've got to quickly create a relationship for the doctor and Rory to have because we've got a we've got a relationship between Rory and Amy sort of. 342 00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:27.900 We've definitely got a relationship between the doctor and Navy. 343 00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:32.039 But now what's the relationship between the doctor and Rory like? 344 00:27:32.099 --> 00:27:48.180 And I think what's really clear is it's a competitive relationship and it's that scene where, you know, they both pull out the the torches, like Rory's so proud that he's prepared and then the doctor pulls out a sort of massively much bigger and more effective torch. 345 00:27:48.240 --> 00:28:02.700 But also all the way through to sort of like until sort of quite some way into the episode, Rory is a scold, you know, like he's desperate to be less fun and be more cautious than the doctor. 346 00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:05.819 And so there's a kind of antagonism between them. 347 00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:07.680 Yeah, I agree with you. 348 00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:18.720 And I think it's, I think that's part of the problem I have with the episode, is that you've got to try and set up this relationship and dynamics so quickly because you've only had Rory back in episode one. 349 00:28:18.779 --> 00:28:30.839 So here with the whole Amy as well, but you're trying to set up a separate kind of relationship with the doctor and where does he fit in and we don't want to do it the same as, say, Mickey back in season one. 350 00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:40.799 And so I just feel that it's maybe a bit rushed or a bit forced and so the dialogue is much deeper and heavier than I would expect. 351 00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:53.700 And it's sort of like, does he really have a problem with the doctor or is it really a reflection of his relationship with Amy and how insecure he actually is about her love for him? 352 00:28:53.759 --> 00:29:18.779 I think also it's that it's a theme that Moffat will come back to, again and again, I mean, we talked about series 9 earlier, that whole series is about the doctor making people like him making people, like, risk their lives and and chase danger. 353 00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:23.400 And I think that's that's something that the Moffat is actually really interested in. 354 00:29:24.059 --> 00:29:33.359 It's a kind of the dark flip side of the idea that the doctor makes people better that the doctor inspires people to feats of bravery and stuff. 355 00:29:33.420 --> 00:29:41.220 You know, the way that he inspires Kathika to find out what's going on and be a proper journalist in the long game or... 356 00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:41.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 357 00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:45.420 And so this is the same thing, but told from a sort of negative point of view. 358 00:29:45.539 --> 00:29:58.680 I think Moffatt's doctor, however much we love Matt Smith, I think in some ways Moffatt's setting him up as a bad man and is setting Rory up as a good man. 359 00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:02.700 And Amy has to make the choice between the 2 of them. 360 00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:04.980 So we'll see you here next week. 361 00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:09.720 But that's very definitely what's happening here. 362 00:30:09.779 --> 00:30:15.480 And so initially Rory is less fun than the doctor, but he does come on board. 363 00:30:15.539 --> 00:30:18.119 There is that wonderful moment where the 2 of them are sort of super excited about that. 364 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:23.279 Funnily enough, I was thinking about it and thinking of it being a parallel with the whole Mickey Dr. Rose thing. 365 00:30:23.339 --> 00:30:23.759 Yeah. 366 00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:37.980 But now that I think about it, it probably is, while it's sort of almost like they're harking back to that, it is totally opposite in terms of how it all ends up, whereas Rose chose the doctor. 367 00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:40.859 Amy chooses Rory. 368 00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:41.519 Yeah. 369 00:30:41.579 --> 00:30:43.859 Yes, Karen, you will get that payoff at the end. 370 00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:45.299 She will choose Rory over the doctor. 371 00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:46.740 And... 372 00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:49.140 But then she'll choose to have the doctor as well at the last minute. 373 00:30:49.259 --> 00:30:52.200 And I think that that's, I'll go on about this all year. 374 00:30:52.259 --> 00:31:19.200 But I think that that's sort of hugely great. that there's a thing going on in Amy's head that she's running away from adulthood, going back to childhood, uncertain of her relationship with Rory, and all of the stages of that and all of the things that happen to her and that she does throughout this year are kind of visible manifestations of that decision and it going sort of different ways. 375 00:31:19.259 --> 00:31:22.500 And then what happens at the Andes that she says, no, both. 376 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:24.119 And I just think that's wonderful. 377 00:31:24.180 --> 00:31:28.319 And it ends up in something pretty damn good after that. 378 00:31:28.380 --> 00:31:48.960 It's very true Now that I've sort of complained a bit about how quick it's the doctor and Rory sort of relationship is developed, I do think I really love the fact that Rory is that perceptive and it actually helps his character a lot because he hasn't had many moments before that. 379 00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:53.519 And I really like the way Arthur and Matt play off each other. 380 00:31:53.579 --> 00:31:57.059 I think there's real chemistry between them. 381 00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:06.119 And I would have liked to have seen more episodes with them and without Amy, you know, just to see, just to see that dynamic. 382 00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:09.839 Maybe Amy should have been eaten by the crack at the end of episode nine. 383 00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:12.000 Yeah, it's her story though. 384 00:32:12.059 --> 00:32:23.880 But that's, I think, one of the great joys of this era. is that you've got these 3 attractive young people who all really, really like each other clearly and have great chemistry together, all travelling in the TARDIS together. 385 00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:24.960 I think it works just so well. 386 00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:40.799 I have a question, actually. 387 00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:46.680 It was something we spoke about earlier, about the light on killing Francesca. 388 00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:50.640 How does light kill him if he can go out in the sun anyway? 389 00:32:50.700 --> 00:32:55.079 I mean, what's so special about him suddenly exploding into ashes? 390 00:32:55.140 --> 00:33:06.240 I think it's a bit like the myth of vampires that you can still be in the shadows, but if you're in direct sunlight, then that's going to kill you. 391 00:33:06.299 --> 00:33:13.259 So if you notice they're always inside or they're in shade, even when they're outside, they're undercover, they're not in the direct beams of the sunlight. 392 00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:15.180 So that's the way... 393 00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:17.519 Yeah, so that's the way in which I read it as. 394 00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:24.779 But they can be in there perhaps for a little while, but the fact that that's a focussed beam, it obviously just takes milliseconds. 395 00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:30.180 And maybe the sun of their planet doesn't have this. 396 00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:31.500 They're underwater. 397 00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:33.059 Maybe that's it. 398 00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:34.259 Yeah, because they fish. 399 00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:37.019 Yes, or maybe the sun on their planet doesn't have the same effect. 400 00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:39.900 I think it's plot expediency. 401 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:40.440 Oh yeah. 402 00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.859 Like we've got to have Amy kill himself. 403 00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:47.819 Is it product experience here or is it we can only do this special effect 2 seconds. 404 00:33:48.180 --> 00:33:51.779 It's a bit like a magnifying glass on an ant. 405 00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:54.420 How do you think the fish come off? 406 00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:57.299 Like the CG fish. 407 00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:59.579 The girls, when they switch between them? 408 00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:00.779 Oh, yeah, that's right. 409 00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:03.059 We get to see the girls as well outside the window. 410 00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:09.239 Oh, let me in, let me in, and then, of course, when Rosanna, her... 411 00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:10.079 Perception filter? 412 00:34:10.139 --> 00:34:11.039 Malfunctions? 413 00:34:11.099 --> 00:34:11.400 Yeah. 414 00:34:12.059 --> 00:34:17.760 I think my favourite line in the entire episode is, aren't we on the 2nd floor? 415 00:34:18.179 --> 00:34:20.460 Is it 2nd floor, 1st floor? 416 00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:21.780 Well, there's 2 lines about that. 417 00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:29.820 So Guido's house, there's this sort of hilarious thing where I think the doctor says, gosh, the neighbours upstairs are noisy. 418 00:34:29.820 --> 00:34:32.099 And then Guido says, this is the top floor. 419 00:34:32.099 --> 00:34:35.639 And the doctor smiles and says, I knew you were going to say that. 420 00:34:35.699 --> 00:34:40.079 He just sort of awkwardly goes, this, there is no one upstairs. 421 00:34:40.619 --> 00:34:44.159 But it's really sort of genre aware. 422 00:34:44.219 --> 00:34:45.000 Do you know what I mean? 423 00:34:45.059 --> 00:34:56.880 Like Rory kind of knows what to expect when he goes into the TARDIS because he's been reading up on scientific theories or watching Star Trek or something and the doctor knows that Guido's going to say there's no floor above here. 424 00:34:56.940 --> 00:35:05.460 And the doctor also guesses that Amy is going to offer to present herself as a candidate because of course she is because that's what has to happen at this point in the episode. 425 00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:17.579 So I think Widhouse does do comedy and does do sort of genre stuff, and I do think that some of the humour is just kind of deliberately sort of lampshading, the stuff that needs... 426 00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:19.920 Yeah, yeah, is a sort of obvious trove. 427 00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:28.860 Yeah, but I think he does actually finds a very good balance because there's still moments where you kind of think what's going to happen like when Amy gets taken down to be put in the chair so her blood can be transfused. 428 00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:30.719 And it's very effective. 429 00:35:30.780 --> 00:35:36.059 And I think that Karen does great job of screaming and struggling and that, yes, James? 430 00:35:36.119 --> 00:35:47.940 So when they were working on that scene, Helen McCrory wanted to, she was like, well, I think she, I think she should bite Amy at this point. 431 00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:51.360 So they wrote it in. 432 00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:53.400 That's so great. 433 00:35:53.460 --> 00:35:55.619 I love Amy's line about Offsted. 434 00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:56.760 I think that's really great. 435 00:35:57.059 --> 00:36:00.420 You know, that she's from Offsted. 436 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:01.800 She's come to inspect the school. 437 00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:11.699 Somehow, Rosanna must know what Offstead is because she's certainly very cross that Amy's making a joke at her expense. 438 00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:14.519 She might just pick up that she's being made fun of. 439 00:36:14.579 --> 00:36:18.480 She might not necessarily have to know, but there's no reason why she shouldn't. 440 00:36:18.539 --> 00:36:22.440 She, oh, well, I suppose it is a bit early in history for Offsted. 441 00:36:31.500 --> 00:36:40.500 The concept that Widhouse came up with for this slot was the doctor being trapped in a labyrinth that looked like a hotel. 442 00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:41.699 Ah. 443 00:36:41.699 --> 00:36:44.460 Well, that'd be ridiculous. 444 00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:46.019 Thank God no one ever approved that. 445 00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:49.920 But because there was a labyrinth in the previous two, like two-parter. 446 00:36:49.980 --> 00:36:50.639 Ah, yeah. 447 00:36:50.699 --> 00:36:55.139 It was also initially they were they were going to call it blood and water. 448 00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:57.059 But then we had flesh and stone. 449 00:36:57.059 --> 00:36:58.260 Straight after flesh and stone. 450 00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:03.059 I think that would have been quite fun, but vampires of Venice is a great title. 451 00:37:03.179 --> 00:37:03.719 Yeah. 452 00:37:03.780 --> 00:37:04.440 Yeah. 453 00:37:04.500 --> 00:37:06.840 No, I just think it's just terrifically solid. 454 00:37:06.900 --> 00:37:10.679 You know, like it's got character work, whatever you think of it. 455 00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:13.199 It's got some pretty good monsters. 456 00:37:13.260 --> 00:37:18.960 It's got some just sort of fairly solid straightforward plotting, it looks really good. 457 00:37:19.019 --> 00:37:20.519 And a great Gekkus cast. 458 00:37:20.579 --> 00:37:21.239 Yeah, yeah. 459 00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:25.019 And it's got the team, obviously, the 3 of these guys working well together. 460 00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:29.639 It's got recycled prisoners 0 teeth from episode one. 461 00:37:29.699 --> 00:37:34.679 Don't you think they look like the prisoner 0 teeth from the 1st episode of the season where... 462 00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:36.480 Weren't they? 463 00:37:36.539 --> 00:37:39.300 No, are they were CG in episode one? 464 00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:41.880 and these aren't their practical because they have to be in more shots. 465 00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:43.679 And the great thing too. 466 00:37:43.739 --> 00:37:49.440 Like, I would have just excused the fact that we could see their teeth. 467 00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:50.280 Do you know what I mean? 468 00:37:50.340 --> 00:37:50.940 Like, who cares? 469 00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:51.719 It's Doctor Who. 470 00:37:51.780 --> 00:37:52.800 That's how these things work. 471 00:37:52.860 --> 00:37:54.000 Their vampires and stuff. 472 00:37:54.059 --> 00:38:02.519 But in fact, we actually managed in some very quick sort of expository dialogue, explain all of it. 473 00:38:02.579 --> 00:38:12.539 You know, that we can see the teeth, despite the perception filter because our instincts for self-preservation make us see the teeth. fabulous. 474 00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:13.800 Yeah, yeah, that's really good. 475 00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:23.519 And the reason we can't see them in the mirror is because we, our brains kind of see it because the perception filter doesn't change their form. 476 00:38:23.579 --> 00:38:29.039 It just changes our thoughts and it just interacts with the mirror in an odd way and we just put a blank space there. 477 00:38:29.099 --> 00:38:30.960 Speaking of the teeth. 478 00:38:31.019 --> 00:38:34.860 Alex Price had to ADR most of his dialogue. 479 00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:37.980 Because he couldn't speak through them. 480 00:38:38.460 --> 00:38:42.659 They're sort of fish teeth rather than vampire teeth. 481 00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:45.840 Well, they're very similar to piranha teeth. 482 00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:46.559 Yeah. 483 00:38:46.619 --> 00:38:55.619 I think, like, one objection I've, I've heard is that fish are actually a bit less interesting than vampires. 484 00:38:55.739 --> 00:38:58.380 And so it's sort of slightly disappointing. 485 00:38:58.380 --> 00:39:00.659 Like, in stage decay. 486 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:07.320 The vampires are actual proper vampires and in fact, sort of somewhat more scarier and sort of mythical than vampires. 487 00:39:07.380 --> 00:39:10.019 Here they're somewhat less mythical in that they're fish. 488 00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:24.840 And partly, I think, I don't know how much Stephen Moffatt was involved in this, but Stephen Moffatt has said before that the word fish is inherently funny, and that he'll put it in dialogue all the time. 489 00:39:24.900 --> 00:39:30.420 So Matt's looking for an escaped fish in the beast below and we have Jim the Fish next year. 490 00:39:30.420 --> 00:39:36.119 And, you know, there's all those fish in a Christmas carol and stuff. 491 00:39:36.179 --> 00:39:43.500 So he likes there to be fish just so that people can say the word fish in dialogue and it certainly sort of does work here. 492 00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:49.380 But I kind of understand perhaps that it's a little bit less exciting than a vampire. 493 00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:53.340 It works really well in Monty Python, the meaning of life. 494 00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:54.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 495 00:39:54.420 --> 00:39:56.039 Fishy, fishy, fishy. 496 00:39:56.099 --> 00:39:57.960 No, it is a genuinely funny word. 497 00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:09.539 How does this one end? 498 00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:10.800 Is it a um... 499 00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:12.599 Is it a voiceover? 500 00:40:12.659 --> 00:40:15.119 No, well, sort of. 501 00:40:15.300 --> 00:40:18.840 So they go back to the TARDIS. 502 00:40:18.900 --> 00:40:28.800 And Amy does that sort of joke about my boys and stuff, which is sort of there to show that she's really learned nothing at all from this episode or something. 503 00:40:28.860 --> 00:40:31.380 Yes, another moment where I can go, great. 504 00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:33.960 So Rory's just one of the boys, not really her fiance. 505 00:40:34.019 --> 00:40:34.980 Thank you, Amy. 506 00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:35.579 Yeah. 507 00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:39.900 And then you get that great speech from Rosanna. 508 00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:40.920 Well, before that. 509 00:40:40.980 --> 00:40:42.360 Overdubbed over the top. 510 00:40:42.420 --> 00:40:46.559 Yeah, but before that, what happens is just there's dead silence. 511 00:40:46.619 --> 00:40:48.000 So there's no atmosphere sound. 512 00:40:48.059 --> 00:40:51.239 There's nothing like that, you know, I don't think you can even hear the water. 513 00:40:51.420 --> 00:40:54.300 No, it just goes completely silent. 514 00:40:54.360 --> 00:40:56.219 Yeah, and the doctor says, can you hear that? 515 00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:57.780 And Rory says, I can't hear anything. 516 00:40:57.780 --> 00:40:59.400 And he goes into the Tartars. 517 00:40:59.460 --> 00:41:03.360 And then we hear Rosanna's speech from before. 518 00:41:03.420 --> 00:41:10.139 And so it's introducing the silence for the 1st time and it's also saying something about the cracks. 519 00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:14.639 And so the doctor only saw the crack for the 1st time. 520 00:41:14.699 --> 00:41:17.519 Well, for the 2nd time, what, last week? 521 00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:22.260 And so this kind of is starting to beef that up a little bit. 522 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:34.260 And so the cracks, like unlike in an RTD arc, you know, the cracks start to become a feature of the episodes, but the doctor is aware of them in some way. 523 00:41:34.380 --> 00:41:36.420 As opposed to RTD, I think. 524 00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:37.139 Yeah, yeah. 525 00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:39.300 So no, I think it's significant. 526 00:41:39.360 --> 00:42:00.480 And I think that's one thing about this episode with all of its light and humour and little things that we like about it, that it is moving the cracks and the silence into our minds and building this up at a crucial point in the season where we are halfway through, effectively this run. 527 00:42:00.539 --> 00:42:13.739 Are we supposed to think that basically everywhere that the doctor and Amy appear this year, there's a crack somewhere and that it destroys the people that we've grown to love through like during that episode. 528 00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:14.699 I don't think. 529 00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:16.320 So it's eaten it's eaten Venice. 530 00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:17.400 It's eaten Venice. 531 00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:19.199 It's eaten Starship UK. 532 00:42:19.260 --> 00:42:20.579 Is that what's happening? 533 00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:21.599 It's eaten. 534 00:42:22.139 --> 00:42:23.280 It's eaten Daisy Haggard. 535 00:42:23.340 --> 00:42:25.980 It's eaten the vampires of Venice. 536 00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:26.880 There you go. 537 00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:27.539 They're all gone. 538 00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:28.260 All the boys are gone. 539 00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:30.179 Oh, maybe they disappeared into the crash. 540 00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:30.900 Maybe they did. 541 00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:33.780 Yeah, Sounds reasonable if it suddenly goes dead silent. 542 00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:41.579 I think it's really ominous and I think that we just kind of never find out either way or whatever, but it does make for a good sort of final scene. 543 00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:42.960 And then weirdly as well. 544 00:42:43.019 --> 00:42:49.019 We go into the closing credits through the TARDIS keyhole for some reason for the 1st time. 545 00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:20.400 Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week. 546 00:43:20.460 --> 00:43:26.699 We'll be back next week to experience the horrible nightmare of ordinary family life in Amy's choice. 547 00:43:26.820 --> 00:43:42.900 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook, at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger and Jody and Tara. 548 00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:52.559 Until next time, whenever you visit the Campanile di San Marco, please remember to keep your arms and legs completely inside the belfry at all times. 549 00:43:52.619 --> 00:43:55.199 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 550 00:43:55.260 --> 00:43:56.099 Good night. 551 00:43:56.159 --> 00:43:58.440 See you soon Ta-ta. 552 00:44:01.500 --> 00:44:07.619 That was Flight 3 Entirety, starring Todd Beelby, Nathan Bottomley, Karen Carpenter, and James Selwood. 553 00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:09.780 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 554 00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:16.440 This episode, those face palming moments, was recorded on the 27th of February 2021 and released on the 18th of April. 555 00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:23.760 In 2000, Helen McCrory wrote about her rollers Anna Karanina in that year's Channel 4 production. 556 00:44:23.820 --> 00:44:36.719 How should a woman live her life, she said, survive to the age of 70 fearfully being as everyone else instructed to be, or play the heroine passionately, in the knowledge that trying and failing need not equal defeat? 557 00:44:38.219 --> 00:44:41.400 What other percent is Toby Withouse right? 558 00:44:41.460 --> 00:44:43.079 So school reunion? 559 00:44:43.139 --> 00:44:44.940 The god complex. 560 00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:47.940 And the under the lake before the flood too, partner. 561 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:50.340 And was there another? 562 00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:53.760 I mean, he created being human. 563 00:44:53.820 --> 00:44:55.199 Oh, I knew that. 564 00:44:55.260 --> 00:44:57.840 I just wanted to know what ones he'd written. 565 00:44:57.900 --> 00:45:03.480 I actually like all of those and especially like the under the lake before the flood 2 parter. 566 00:45:03.659 --> 00:45:13.860 Yeah, no, I think he's got the chops have been actually a really good showrunner for Doctor Who, quite frankly, if we were doing 6 episodes a year based on his work on being human. 567 00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:16.320 Yeah. 6 to 8 episodes. 568 00:45:16.380 --> 00:45:16.619 Yeah. 569 00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:18.539 No, like that would be really good. 570 00:45:18.599 --> 00:45:24.780 It's funny, I think I was the last person still watching being human when it limped its way to the end. 571 00:45:24.780 --> 00:45:26.639 I liked being human. 572 00:45:26.699 --> 00:45:27.059 Did you? 573 00:45:27.059 --> 00:45:27.599 Did you get it? 574 00:45:27.659 --> 00:45:27.840 Yeah. 575 00:45:27.900 --> 00:45:28.980 I enjoyed it. 576 00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:31.500 I mean, even though you replace the entire cast. 577 00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:32.579 Yeah, yeah. 578 00:45:32.579 --> 00:45:35.460 I really like that final season cast. 579 00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:36.480 Yeah, yeah, me too. 580 00:45:36.539 --> 00:45:41.219 I mean, I love I love the original cast as well, but I really quite enjoyed what they did that season. 581 00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:47.099 And that ending or anyway, let's not talk about that in case they have nobody. 582 00:45:47.219 --> 00:45:51.239 Let's not talk about that in case the listener has not watched it. 583 00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:53.519 When are we doing the being human podcast? 584 00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:57.900 We're doing it sometime later in the year, probably. 585 00:45:58.260 --> 00:46:00.300 How does this one end? 586 00:46:00.420 --> 00:46:02.940 Is it a um, is it a voiceover?