WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 14:57:19 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:46.619 Hello, Delissa, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast with knobbly knees and turned out toes and a poisonous wart on the end of its nose. 2 00:00:46.679 --> 00:00:48.299 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:48.359 --> 00:00:49.500 I'm Todd. 4 00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:50.460 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:51.600 And I'm Eric. 6 00:00:51.659 --> 00:01:07.859 Well, we've been bringing back classic Doctor Who monsters at the rate of about one a year for a few years now, and so this week it's time to see how the Siberians have been getting on 40 years after their 1st introduction by resident Pertwee giant lizard enthusiast Malcolm Hulk. 7 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:10.620 Can they live up to the weight of our expectations? 8 00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:14.519 Let's find out as we discuss the hungry earth. 9 00:01:35.640 --> 00:01:40.500 So, Eric, are you a Silurians fan? 10 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:45.719 Of the story or the race of subterranean reptile people? 11 00:01:45.780 --> 00:01:49.140 Well, let's start with the let's start with the 1970s story. 12 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:51.060 I quite enjoy it. 13 00:01:51.120 --> 00:02:01.560 It suffers from a lot of the sort of 70s, the part we air, to be particular, issue of maybe it's an episode or 2 too long, arguably. 14 00:02:01.620 --> 00:02:03.780 Uh, but I actually quite like it. 15 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:10.500 It is, along with Inferno, I think it's as adult and dark as the show has ever gotten. 16 00:02:10.620 --> 00:02:17.639 Um, It is morally complex in a way that Doctor Who rarely actually is. 17 00:02:17.699 --> 00:02:22.439 It likes to pretend to be morally complex, but is actually usually quite simplistic. 18 00:02:22.500 --> 00:02:30.840 Uh, whereas with the Salurians, There's genuinely no good answer, um, in a way that is uh, depressing is all hell, but convincing to reality. 19 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:41.759 And I think that the, um, you know, the rubber monsters and things like that, you could sort of wave away, as I'm inclined to do with bad special effects from the past. 20 00:02:41.819 --> 00:03:01.020 But I think the story, and I think the dilemma presented, and the conflict between the doctor and the brigadier and the conflict with the Nissellirian society are all very realistic seeming and, um, sort of give an indication about why certain races are just always going to have wars because they, they're always going to be people who want wars. 21 00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:07.139 And I mean, it's true to say that this covers a lot of the same ground. 22 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:10.500 It's clearly intended to be a sort of tribute. 23 00:03:10.620 --> 00:03:15.419 Yeah, a tribute of homage to the original story. 24 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:18.360 I really like the original Silurian story a lot. 25 00:03:18.419 --> 00:03:24.900 The rubber suits of the Silurians, however, are, you know, a bit lamentable when you look back on things. 26 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:30.180 Yeah, um, you know, I love Pertwe's 1st season. 27 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:40.199 I don't necessarily think that tone was sustainable for, say, 5 years, so I'm glad they pretty much reinvent the tone of pert Wii every couple of years, which I think is a great idea. 28 00:03:41.460 --> 00:03:51.539 And I do I do think this episode is a bit of a remix of those themes, but I like, I like what new stuff is introduced here. 29 00:03:51.599 --> 00:04:01.199 And um, Chris Chibnall did say at the time that while uh, Stephen Moffatt encouraged him to use the ideas as laid down by Malcolm Hulk. 30 00:04:01.259 --> 00:04:07.680 Chris Gibnall said his main inspiration from that was actually the novelisation. 31 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:17.040 Which goes deeper into the characterisation of various people tells more from the perspective of the Silurians themselves and is one of the best target books. 32 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:19.019 I think it's brilliant. 33 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:23.220 I think cave monsters is absolutely one of the best of the range. 34 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:27.300 And Hulk's novelisations are always, I think, really very good. 35 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:29.279 Yeah, it makes colony in space. 36 00:04:29.339 --> 00:04:30.180 Exciting. 37 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:30.839 Yeah, yeah. 38 00:04:30.899 --> 00:04:44.220 The, what what it does do, what the cave monsters does do is it fixes the biggest problem with asylurans, which is that they're 3 rubber monsters all voiced by Peter Hawkins, and none of them have names. 39 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:52.319 And so by giving them names and giving them characters, which are present in the script, but maybe not in the production. 40 00:04:52.379 --> 00:05:03.660 Um, You know, the, wasn't the working title the monsters or the cave monsters and and the whole idea of this was the people in rubber suits are actually people. 41 00:05:04.500 --> 00:05:25.319 Yeah, it's definitely one of the, it's definitely one of the pert wee stories, uh, that spends at least some time trying to delineate and sort of, uh, interest the reader, the reader, the watcher, if you're watching on TV, the reader, if you're reading the book, in sort of the society and the characters of the individual. 42 00:05:25.379 --> 00:05:27.899 You know, quote unquote, aliens. 43 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:34.560 Like these are not Ogrons, these are not, you know, whatever, uh, Zog aliens. 44 00:05:34.620 --> 00:05:39.360 These are cellurians and they have different roles and they have different personalities and different outlooks. 45 00:05:39.420 --> 00:05:40.259 And I think you're right. 46 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:50.699 I think the lack of communicability through the rubber suit and the same voice and the sort of need to just sort of shake your head to indicate which one of you is talking is problematic in the show. 47 00:05:50.819 --> 00:06:00.480 But the idea is clearly there to establish that the Salarians have a society, they are not a monolith. 48 00:06:00.540 --> 00:06:03.180 They have a diverse society of viewpoints and opinions. 49 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:14.040 And that's something that, uh, Hulk would do again when he invented draconians, it's something he played again with a little bit when he brought in, uh, the sea devils, the aquatic cousin, of course. 50 00:06:14.100 --> 00:06:26.279 It's one of the times where the show, I think, actually tries to have the viewer identified not just with the humans, but identify with the quote unquote aliens as well. 51 00:06:26.699 --> 00:06:39.720 I think there's still a little bit of a problem in that eventually we just sort of settle on the idea that they want to kill us all and, you know, the old guy gets killed and the and Morca, is it Morca? 52 00:06:39.779 --> 00:06:47.279 I can never remember, the young Silurian kind of takes over and immediately just wants to kind of infect us all. 53 00:06:47.339 --> 00:06:52.560 And so they end up to some degree playing the role of monsters. 54 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:55.139 And they probably do that a bit too quickly. 55 00:06:55.379 --> 00:06:59.220 I mean, I mean, too quickly is debateable in a 7 part story. 56 00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:00.420 But I understand what you're saying. 57 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.180 It's sort of once they go evil. 58 00:07:03.540 --> 00:07:09.899 Once they go evil, it sort of happens all at once and that seems, that is problematic. 59 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:27.120 But I do think it's, um, The show raises an actual question, an actual problem that it doesn't really have the ability to solve within the confines of the show without, so drastically, you'll be working its version of Earth as to be unrecognisable. 60 00:07:27.180 --> 00:07:38.160 Like, it would be wild if after season 7, there were just, oh, and there are Salurian settlements all over the world, and people were just hanging out there with the Salarian building weird cave cities and stuff. 61 00:07:38.220 --> 00:07:38.759 That would be wild. 62 00:07:39.300 --> 00:07:41.699 We will get onto that next week. 63 00:07:41.819 --> 00:07:43.800 Katie Manning is a solo road. 64 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:54.600 I'm just visioning in my head that cartoon image of that Solurian that's sitting in the, the interview chair with the, with the, is it cigarette? 65 00:07:54.660 --> 00:07:57.600 You know, the one that's all over the interwear? 66 00:07:57.660 --> 00:07:58.800 Yes, yes, yeah. 67 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:02.040 So in a way. 68 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:09.060 In a way, the production of this solves some of those problems, doesn't it? 69 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:10.920 Does it? 70 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:18.180 Well, you have Silurians who can indicate that they're speaking by actually just speaking. 71 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:24.300 Um, you have people's eyes and and mouths and things like that. 72 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:27.000 So you get an actor's performance. 73 00:08:27.060 --> 00:08:34.919 Remember, when Pertwee talks about the draconians, one of the reasons that he likes them is that they're an acting performance rather than a monster performance. 74 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:40.259 And so you get silurians with names, you do get silurians with different opinions. 75 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:47.820 And rather than just being 3 people in a room, you get this sort of big silurian settlement that looks pretty amazing. 76 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:50.039 Next episode. 77 00:08:50.100 --> 00:08:50.820 Wow. 78 00:08:50.820 --> 00:08:53.639 We're getting ahead of us. we are. 79 00:08:54.179 --> 00:09:01.679 Well, that might be a good time to talk about the new Silurian design because we weren't meant to see it this episode. 80 00:09:01.740 --> 00:09:02.879 Oh, okay. 81 00:09:02.940 --> 00:09:05.279 In Chibnall's original outline. 82 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:08.340 The sort of Silurian face reveal was the cliffhanger. 83 00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:12.419 It was the traditional monster reveal and dinosaurs. 84 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:16.259 We're going to be chasing them around the village, um, in the in the bubble. 85 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:17.519 That would have been great. 86 00:09:17.580 --> 00:09:29.639 But pretty much millennium FX and Milk came back to Stephen Moffatt and said, right, you can have the prosthetics or you can have the CG dinosaurs, which is it? 87 00:09:29.700 --> 00:09:36.120 And they're like, well, we have to have the Solurians, and that's where the character of a layer came from. 88 00:09:36.419 --> 00:09:48.419 It's like, okay, well, not only, right, we'll introduce the Silurian halfway through episode one, but they can now be taken hostage and so we mirror the situation under the surface above the surface. 89 00:09:48.659 --> 00:09:51.840 Oh, but how much budget do we have for actors? 90 00:09:51.899 --> 00:09:52.139 Right. 91 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:53.759 So Lurian's now a clone race? 92 00:09:56.039 --> 00:10:00.179 Very clear budgetary move, isn't it, to have? 93 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:02.159 We'll see that next week, of course. 94 00:10:02.220 --> 00:10:11.220 But they do they do throw a red herring in the fact that they have the mask over their faces, which makes them look a bit more like like the original rubber monsters. 95 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:24.120 And I remember being bitterly disappointed at the face of you going, oh, well, they're just another Star Trek Babylon 5 sort of creature, as opposed to rubber men in suits, you know, at the time, I was really not happy about it. 96 00:10:24.179 --> 00:10:27.299 But now actually it's the best decision they made. 97 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:39.360 I think, yeah, I think you lose something because, because I think that the genius of the original story was to have us treat rubber monsters as people. 98 00:10:39.419 --> 00:10:44.279 Whereas here we're encouraged to take the incredible step of treating people as people. 99 00:10:44.340 --> 00:10:45.960 And so you kind of lose that. 100 00:10:46.019 --> 00:10:54.360 And, you know, when you call them Star Trek monsters, Todd, of course, they're the Voth from distant origin in Voyager, aren't they? 101 00:10:54.419 --> 00:11:02.519 Yes, who return heavily ripped off the Silurians to the point of basically saying to Chikotay, no, you can't have evolved on this planet. 102 00:11:02.580 --> 00:11:03.600 We evolved on this planet. 103 00:11:03.659 --> 00:11:04.799 What are you talking about? 104 00:11:04.860 --> 00:11:07.259 I have to say, I'm with you there, Todd. 105 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:12.179 I was quite disappointed in 2010 when, you know, there's not even the 3rd eye. 106 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:13.860 Yes, there's no 3rd. 107 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:16.740 The reasoning behind that as well is so weird. 108 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:28.440 It was actually Stephen Moffatt, who said no 3rd eye, because that's Davros's thing now, and like our younger viewers who saw Davros 2 years ago might associate that, which I think is rather an odd decision. 109 00:11:28.500 --> 00:11:35.100 I do think allowing the actor's performance to get through the mask is the right decision and looking back on it now. 110 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:42.000 Also, I think as good as those original Silurian heads are, you put that on telly in 2010. 111 00:11:42.179 --> 00:11:55.080 And, you know, try and treat it seriously and do that message of everyone in their story as a person who, you know, has a right to a home and liberty and to live free of war. 112 00:11:55.139 --> 00:12:00.480 And people are just gonna laugh at that because it's like human face and weird rubber thing. 113 00:12:00.539 --> 00:12:18.779 That being said, in recent years, people have been, um, Photoshopping an original Solurian head onto Madame Vastra, and it looks, it looks hilarious, but also it suits what that character will become getting way ahead of ourselves. 114 00:12:19.019 --> 00:12:22.379 I don't think they're fully successful, I have to say. 115 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:24.539 I think, like the Santarians. 116 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:33.360 They only work with Vastra and Strax for me, but I think that's more of it in the next episode, as far as I'm concerned. 117 00:12:33.419 --> 00:12:38.460 Yeah, I mean, so we've gotten, um, Neva McIntosh, don't we? 118 00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:45.899 Yeah, so Niamh McIntosh is a layer, and we've also got Malocare, the scientist. 119 00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:48.600 That's such a chibnal space name, isn't it? 120 00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:51.600 Well, it's based on Malcolm Hulk. 121 00:12:51.659 --> 00:13:00.179 Oh, and Restack. is, and this is a bit more of a stretch is based on Terence Dix. 122 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:01.080 Okay. 123 00:13:01.139 --> 00:13:05.399 So it, they are chip no space names, but they're also bidmead space names. 124 00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:06.419 Yeah, yeah. 125 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:07.620 That's probably fair enough. 126 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:10.620 And L Dane is based on nothing at all. 127 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:12.480 He should have been called Larry Betts, obviously. 128 00:13:25.259 --> 00:13:32.940 So, of course, we don't start with the Silurians, because it's a Doctor Who story, and we have to sort of faff about for a bit and introduce everyone. 129 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:37.980 And I think we do that at quite a leisurely pace in this story. 130 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:44.100 It kind of like the last big non-season finale 2 parter, isn't it? 131 00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:46.080 I'm not counting series 9, I guess. 132 00:13:46.139 --> 00:13:51.240 Um, But everything is is a little bit sort of stately. 133 00:13:51.299 --> 00:13:54.720 But in fact, that's actually not such a bad thing, is it? 134 00:13:55.019 --> 00:14:01.799 I, maybe, I don't, I, I, I think stately is a nice way of saying stodgy, I think. 135 00:14:01.860 --> 00:14:10.799 Uh, and I do actually find the the pacing of this story to be, to be quite slow for modern Doctor Who. 136 00:14:10.860 --> 00:14:21.720 Um, I think Chib Noel kind of only really has enough plot, such as it is for maybe an episode and a half or a 75 minute long episode and he has to stretch it out every 2 full ones. 137 00:14:21.779 --> 00:14:24.240 So everything just kind of takes a bit longer. 138 00:14:24.299 --> 00:14:38.100 There's the entire thing where you spend, you know, 5 minutes building this electronic perimeter only to have it completely destroyed as soon as a cellar range arrived, so it's just, oh, so that script time was just wasted. 139 00:14:38.220 --> 00:14:38.759 Okay. 140 00:14:38.820 --> 00:14:40.919 That's that's that's great. 141 00:14:40.980 --> 00:14:47.159 And I mean, that feels a very classic series where you spend half of episode 2 doing something that's not going to work so you can get a cliffhanger. 142 00:14:47.220 --> 00:15:06.480 Uh, yeah, I, I, I, I do, it's very chibnally feeling to me, the introduction of little Elliot, the dyslexic boy and his poor mom, and then just all very like, oh, look, I'm trying to do like RTD-ish stuff and introduce a family and these relationships, but he just doesn't do it as well. 143 00:15:06.539 --> 00:15:12.000 And it feels strangely out of place in the Moffat era, so it's sort of like, huh, this is a weird fit. 144 00:15:12.059 --> 00:15:19.320 I do think, though, he does a reasonable job of kind of delineating the human characters. 145 00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:33.840 I've been watching ahead and I did get to the end of another actual sort of 2 parter, which slipped my mind just now, which is the gangers 2 parter, and by the end of the 1st episode, I didn't know how many people were on the base or what any of their names were. 146 00:15:33.899 --> 00:15:38.700 And here I do think like Elliot, I think is quite a successful character. 147 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:41.399 I do like that little scene at the beginning. 148 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:57.419 Um, the line where Mo says to Elliot, um, who loves you more than me, and it's like no one, and then, and then Ambrose, who will obviously become a massive problem later in the episode, is actually really rather sweet there as well. 149 00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:02.759 And I guess that needs to be established given what her motivations are for the rest of the episode. 150 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:06.059 And so I don't think that that's badly done. 151 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:16.440 And I certainly think that Mira Ciel's character, um, who is just there briefly in that sort of pre-credits teaser is really something. 152 00:16:16.620 --> 00:16:38.940 Yeah, I mean, I love Miraciel in every, everything I see her in, but yeah, her, her as, as Nazarene, you know, continuing the new series thing of, um, women scientists that you want to jump in the Tartars at some point, 0 my god, she does, you know, and I'm like, Ida Scott, she's fully conscious and is just lovely in the Tartars towards the end of this episode. 153 00:16:39.299 --> 00:16:42.539 But yeah, I love the family as well. 154 00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:53.820 And the Moffat era will not always successfully handle child characters, but I think Elliot is absolutely delightful. 155 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.220 He wasn't terribly experienced. 156 00:16:56.279 --> 00:17:03.539 The production team saw him being interviewed as himself, I think, for a news item about wanting to be an actor. 157 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:07.440 And so invited him to audition for the part. 158 00:17:07.500 --> 00:17:21.539 And there's there's interview footage of him just saying, I love Doctor Who, and I'm having a fantastic tie, but what have you, which is just lovely. and much like another character Chris Chipnall will write later. 159 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:40.079 His dyslexia is written, I think, with sort of great sympathy, and just it also gives Matt Smith's doctor the chance to say that wonderful line when Elliot says, oh, I can draw your map, but I can't do the words and the doctor just leans down and says, well, I can't make a very good meringue, but, you know, this is your job. that's what I want you to do. 160 00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:43.019 And those 2 are just so lovely together. 161 00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:45.960 Matt Smith and Samuel Davies. 162 00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:47.400 Yeah, I agree. 163 00:17:47.460 --> 00:17:48.720 I think that's a beautiful moment. 164 00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:59.099 Ambrose, I'd grow to dislike intensely, like, I just really hate that character so much, but more about that next week. 165 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.380 Nazarene is fantastic. 166 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:11.099 She really does stand out as something in this era, you know, as somebody who is just suddenly there, but she has this instant connection with the doctor and believes in him right from the get go. 167 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:18.299 I found it really interesting watching it just to see how sympathetic she is towards him and is and open-minded to what is going on. 168 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:23.460 And I really enjoyed her entire performance in this entire 2 part. 169 00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:29.819 Mo, of course, gets taken down underneath right at the beginning. 170 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:37.799 I really have a problem with that scene because he's putting his hands down 1st to get sucked down and then it cuts away and comes back and then he's being dragged in by the legs. 171 00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:40.200 Yes, and it just irritates me so much. 172 00:18:40.259 --> 00:18:41.940 It's the 1st problem I have with this episode. 173 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:43.079 Yeah, yeah. 174 00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:45.420 There is an editing problem in that scene. 175 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:48.000 There's 15 minutes of cut footage from this episode. 176 00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:48.660 Really? 177 00:18:48.779 --> 00:18:49.380 Yeah. 178 00:18:49.440 --> 00:19:00.779 Yeah, I do wonder because I don't think Ashley Way returns to the show after this, and I do wonder if that's why, because part of the director's job. in the planning stage is to is to inform the production team if the script is too long. 179 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:03.599 Um, there was stuff cut from M2 as well. 180 00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:08.519 But yeah, there's 15 minutes cut from F1, including where the funding is coming from from the drill. 181 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:10.319 I'm sorry to have lost that. 182 00:19:10.380 --> 00:19:14.759 Um, but it's all, but also that's why they are pushing. 183 00:19:14.819 --> 00:19:21.720 They are, but that's why they're pushing so hard and why, it's part of the reason that they don't discover what's down there. 184 00:19:21.779 --> 00:19:32.400 They haven't actually done the proper scans because they're pushing, which harks back to 42, where they don't scan the sun before they go scooping because they're on a, they're on a tight schedule. 185 00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:41.160 So, you know, it, I, I think Chibnell has a thing of scientists having to be irresponsible because of the pressure they're under. 186 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:46.440 And yeah, so, you know, it's not a big problem to have lost it. 187 00:19:46.500 --> 00:19:53.640 But it does mean we just get a bit of ADR where the doctor says you were only seeing what you wanted to see when you scanned this. 188 00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:54.480 Yeah. 189 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:57.359 I don't have a problem with that. 190 00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:06.480 It's all the little lines about, you know, we have to bus people in from the village and and so they're going to be isolated, so it's going to be a small cast. 191 00:20:06.539 --> 00:20:07.980 I'm all okay with that. 192 00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:09.539 I actually really like all of that stuff. 193 00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:12.299 Did we know that the Salarians are coming back? 194 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:15.299 I really don't know, but I think we might have, yeah. 195 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:26.160 But I was seeing that, yes, babe, we've got a big drill and we're going down and 0 my goodness, it's probably the Silurians and, and then, you know, we're going to be cut off from everybody else. 196 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:29.940 Chris sets things up very obviously. 197 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:31.079 Yeah. 198 00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:42.420 And that's another thing which irritates me is at the beginning of the episode when Amy and Rory come out of the TARS and they see themselves waving from the future, like they're there from the future, sort of like, well, this has never happened before. 199 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:45.779 And so I kind of go, well, is this going to come into play? 200 00:20:45.779 --> 00:20:48.059 Like, it's like, it's almost like he wants it at the end. 201 00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:49.319 So we're going to put it at the beginning. 202 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:52.440 And then Rory has to put the engagement ring back in the Tartar. 203 00:20:52.500 --> 00:21:03.420 Well, I don't know, it's just, it just irritates, like it's not irritating at the time, but it just big red flags as this is where I want to be at the end, so I'm going to join the dots to get to that point. 204 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.119 I think with that material in particular. 205 00:21:06.180 --> 00:21:20.759 It's very hard to disentangle what Moffatt might have been responsible for, given that the story doesn't look like it's written in any way to lead up to what happens at the end of next week. 206 00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:23.099 And so I don't know. 207 00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:26.819 Do you think that might be something Stevens put in, possibly, possibly. 208 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:32.279 I um, I do, I do commend um, future Amy and Rory from the year 2020. 209 00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:34.799 They are obviously champions of social distancing. 210 00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:37.380 They are a long way away. 211 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:53.759 Like you, Todd, I really like the small cast, and it makes episode one a base under siege story. 212 00:21:53.819 --> 00:21:57.240 But without the intransigent base commander. 213 00:21:57.299 --> 00:22:07.859 You know, we do have people in heightened emotional states for understandable reasons, like their loved ones have gone missing, but none of them outright, say to the doctor, oh, no, you can't do that, install the plot for 10 minutes. 214 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:10.380 They just go, okay, yeah, weird stuff is happening. 215 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:12.960 You're here and you know about the weird stuff. 216 00:22:13.019 --> 00:22:14.220 All right, what do we do? 217 00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:18.359 And it's only when, you know, Elliot gets taken, that they start to question him. 218 00:22:18.420 --> 00:22:21.599 But even then when he turns around and says, right, this is what I'm going to do now and this is what you're going to do. 219 00:22:21.660 --> 00:22:26.220 They all kind of grudgingly go, well, you know, we don't have much other option. 220 00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:28.200 And I like that. 221 00:22:28.259 --> 00:22:30.660 I like that even though they're all under duress. 222 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:31.619 They're not idiot. 223 00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:34.319 Yeah, yeah, I mean. 224 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:43.559 There is a difficulty with this episode, isn't it, in that we're discussing an episode that is largely just set up. 225 00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:47.099 And it does that. 226 00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:49.500 I think it does that reasonably effectively. 227 00:22:49.619 --> 00:22:55.740 Um, but, but I'm just not sort of super uh, sold on how interesting it is. 228 00:22:55.859 --> 00:23:04.859 I mean, the thing that we normally say about this 2 parter is that episode one is sort of quite good and episode 2 it all sort of goes to hell. 229 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:10.440 Episode one is is, though, a bit thin, I think. 230 00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:14.099 You know, like I just don't think there's all that much to it. 231 00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:15.660 But I like that. 232 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:19.319 I'm inclined to agree with Nathan about the thinness. 233 00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:34.079 In and of itself, the sort of, uh, the small town, you know, or the idea of there's only these few people and Elliot and Ambrose and the grave feeding people like, oh, all the sort of character stuff done in part one is fine. 234 00:23:34.259 --> 00:23:55.440 Um, I think it's very difficult, though, to watch it and sort of disconnect your knowledge of that most of it goes to waste or is not developed interestingly or whatever in in the 2nd part that he does this sort of establishment of who Elliot is, and then Elliot is essentially not really a character in part two. 235 00:23:55.500 --> 00:24:08.039 He does this work to make Ambrose vaguely sympathetic, but also establishing from the beginning that she's someone who reaches for a gun at a moment's notice, which is maybe not great. 236 00:24:08.099 --> 00:24:20.819 Um, and Tony is just sort of nice old guy, which I suppose everyone needs a nice old guy sometimes, but I think the only one who really comes out of the entire 2 part of feeling like a proper character is Nazarene. 237 00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:27.420 I think that's probably just because she gets to hang out with the doctor and therefore she gets the most screen time and gets the most interesting stuff to do. 238 00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:39.720 Yeah, it's it's thin, it's fine, but it kind of all leads nowhere in the end, I think, or leads to things that are just so outlandish as to be, you almost wish they didn't happen. 239 00:24:39.779 --> 00:24:41.339 It's, I don't know. 240 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:51.720 It's it's a really weird contrast between the 2 parts in some ways, where this one definitely is sort of like a fun monstery based under CG sort of thing. 241 00:24:51.779 --> 00:24:55.440 And then we just get slammed and just something completely different the following week. 242 00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:01.500 And I completely agree with you, and that's why I love this episode and I loved it at the time. 243 00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:07.319 I love seeing Rory without Amy because he's just been an adjunct to her over the last 2 episodes. 244 00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:13.380 And here he gets to stand in his own 2 feet and work with the doctor and meet these people by himself. 245 00:25:13.380 --> 00:25:15.420 And I really love Arthur and I love that. 246 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:18.299 I like the fact that Karen's a bit sidelined for the episode. 247 00:25:18.359 --> 00:25:33.960 Um, But, you know, she's still there, obviously, at the beginning, and I just like the way in which halfway through, suddenly we've got the whole dome and everything goes dark, and that's something that I really enjoy, and I love the music that goes with it, and all the buildup. 248 00:25:34.019 --> 00:25:43.859 And I mean, you know that obviously when Amy gets taken, she's going to be okay, but honestly, that scene where she's in the perspects coffin thing always gets to me, it's so claustrophobic. 249 00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:45.299 It really is, actually. 250 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:47.940 Just noticing how close that glass is to her face. 251 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:48.839 Yes. 252 00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:52.380 You know, it would actually have been sort of quite uncomfortable for the actor. 253 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:56.339 And I think she does a really great job there. 254 00:25:56.579 --> 00:25:59.339 It is per to his greatest hits. 255 00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:06.839 It's a love letter to the Pertwi era or is it just sort of mining the Pertwi era for sort of set pieces that have worked in the past? 256 00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:15.779 I think it is using some of the set pieces, but It's as if, okay, if we had come up with these ideas in 2010, what would they look like? 257 00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:16.440 Yeah. 258 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:24.359 And one particular thing I love about the direction in those sequences is there's a bit where Rory is setting up a camera. 259 00:26:24.420 --> 00:26:31.440 So you got Rory in the foreground up a ladder, you got docked behind him and they look up and it's getting dark and when you come back to them, it's night. 260 00:26:31.500 --> 00:26:39.180 They're in exactly the same positions, the camera is in the same position, and my god, that would have taken, you know, that would have taken effort to set up. 261 00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:48.000 It's not quite as effective the other way around with the meals on wheels, man, but capturing a Silurian in a meals on wheels van. is pretty good. 262 00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:58.380 That is that is brilliant, especially because, you know, Ambrose really is at the point where she's going to pick up a weapon and hit the 1st thing that moves. whether that's the doctor or not. 263 00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:08.039 So that is, it is a clever solution that is operating on reptiles don't like cold, but it is not a cruel solution. 264 00:27:08.099 --> 00:27:08.759 Yeah. 265 00:27:08.819 --> 00:27:12.480 You know, it's not a pit full of spears kind of thing or yeah. 266 00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:27.420 I, can I just say that Matt is really amazing in that scene, that um, that scene where he confronts Ambrose and tells her that she doesn't need the weapons and that's not how we do things. 267 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:35.279 Um, Matt has a way of being frightening by toning it down. 268 00:27:35.339 --> 00:27:38.400 But here he tones it down even further than that. 269 00:27:38.460 --> 00:27:39.720 He's not frightening. 270 00:27:39.779 --> 00:27:46.619 He's kind of friendly in a sort of odd way, as if he's trying to jolly her along, but it's not. 271 00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:53.220 It's not warm, you know, like he's, he just pitches it absolutely perfectly, I think. 272 00:27:53.819 --> 00:27:56.640 Yeah, he just says very offhandedly. 273 00:27:56.700 --> 00:27:57.660 I'm asking nicely. 274 00:27:57.720 --> 00:27:58.980 Yeah, yeah, but he is. 275 00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:05.519 Yeah, he is asking nicely, but he is asking nicely in the most threatening way possible. 276 00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:08.279 I think Matt Smith. 277 00:28:08.339 --> 00:28:17.819 It has been a number of years since I have watched a Matt Smith episode that wasn't Day of the Doctor, I think, probably, because I tend to rewatch that sometimes. 278 00:28:17.940 --> 00:28:22.259 But especially just watching a straight up season 5 story his 1st season. 279 00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:25.680 He's incredibly good in this role. 280 00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:29.519 I like, I've always been like, oh, the 11th doctor is one of my favourites. 281 00:28:29.579 --> 00:28:30.059 I adore him. 282 00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:30.900 Watching this. 283 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:34.920 I'm like, Jesus Christ, we did know how lucky we were at the time to have this guy. 284 00:28:34.980 --> 00:28:35.700 He's amazing. 285 00:28:35.819 --> 00:28:42.240 That scene is phenomenal where he's talking with Ambrose and as you say, he does the sort of polite threatening. 286 00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:45.720 His scene with Elliot, as we mentioned, is great. 287 00:28:45.779 --> 00:28:49.200 Um, him talking with Amy and Rory are really great. 288 00:28:49.259 --> 00:28:50.940 Like everything he's doing is fantastic. 289 00:28:51.000 --> 00:29:12.420 Um, at his scene where he comes in uh, with the chair to interrogate Aleia. is just like a sort of a masterclass in how to go from friendly to threatening all at the same time and sitting there in a folding chair, even his physicality in that scene where he sort of lithely sort of lifting the chair around. 290 00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:19.259 And then he quotes McCoy in a series, in an episode full of Pertwi homages, he quotes McCoy and says, there will be no battle here today. 291 00:29:19.380 --> 00:29:32.160 And he sort of just strides out, confident as ever, that as the doctor, he's going to fix things, and he does, but at a cost, but it is, it's a phenomenal performance from him. 292 00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:40.200 It was the thing I was by far most uh, most astounded by in most uh, most uh, such a pleasure to revisit when we watched this. 293 00:29:40.740 --> 00:30:11.279 My 2 things are, the moment where he says that he's the last of his species, um, without being sort of tenancy and overwrought is super refreshing, and then the scene where everyone turns to look at him, because he's let Elliot go off on his own, and he's sort of embarrassed and mortified and completely silent, and, and I just think that's extraordary. 294 00:30:11.339 --> 00:30:12.539 He's so good. 295 00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:20.279 I've just enjoyed his performance all this season and uh, you know, when Nasreen claps him after his that scene. 296 00:30:20.339 --> 00:30:25.019 I mean, she is us and that's why I love her so much, but it's just, it's so earned from that character. 297 00:30:25.140 --> 00:30:28.319 It's so earned. he nobody dies today. 298 00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:30.599 He really is just phenomenal in this. 299 00:30:30.660 --> 00:30:31.740 Yeah. 300 00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:34.140 Can I say I hate that speech? 301 00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:39.839 And I think the reason I hate that speech is that we know what's going to happen. 302 00:30:39.900 --> 00:30:45.599 It's so clearly the doctor setting up the, now, everyone. 303 00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:48.839 Just make sure you don't kill the lizard lady. 304 00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:57.359 And you just kind of think, it would have been so easy not to kill the lizard lady, but like it's definitely a thing that's going to happen. 305 00:30:57.420 --> 00:30:58.980 And also, you know what? 306 00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:03.839 I wasn't considering it, but now... now that you put it into my mind. 307 00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:06.480 Yeah, and then codiles really tasty. 308 00:31:06.539 --> 00:31:07.859 It is. 309 00:31:07.859 --> 00:31:12.299 And then she even takes it on board herself and says, I know which one review is going to kill me. 310 00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:14.160 How generous. 311 00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:20.940 Now, the thing is, I have to say with that, and I've spoken about this on our waters of Mars Thick. 312 00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:33.180 I do kind of enjoy stories sometimes where you as the viewer inevitably know that the thing that the characters say must not happen is gonna happen. 313 00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:38.640 And I think, I think a lot of, a lot of Doctor Who writers have, have used that. 314 00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:49.019 And, you know, I reckon in a way, Russell uses it in turn left because we as the viewer know the events of the Doctor Who universe and how they're going to unfold. 315 00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:58.079 And, um, sort of when Donna and Will say things like, oh, you know, things can't get much worse and the cars start spewing out toxic gas or what have you. 316 00:31:58.140 --> 00:32:06.359 Yeah, no, I just think I think it sort of sets up this moral dilemma for the characters in a way that just a little bit too on the nose. 317 00:32:07.140 --> 00:32:10.920 Yeah, and I actually, I'm inclined to agree with Nathan again. 318 00:32:10.980 --> 00:32:14.039 Uh, this is why Nathan and uh, like having me on. 319 00:32:14.099 --> 00:32:16.680 I agree with that. about that speech. 320 00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:20.220 I think Nazarene's clapping is entirely earned and perfectly justified. 321 00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:23.579 I do think, though, it feels too much like a speech. 322 00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:33.539 It feels too much like a pep talk from the coach, which means it feels performative in a way that sort of pushes me out a bit. 323 00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:41.519 I also do think it's one of those situations where, okay, doctor, is this a test for the humans in this room? 324 00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:47.220 Because if you wanted Alaya to be safe, you could lock her in the TARDIS where no one could get at her and she would be fine. 325 00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:55.740 Like, you're locking her in this room in the church because you want her to be available to be killed conveniently. 326 00:32:55.799 --> 00:33:02.640 It's almost like the doctor is testing to see whether humanity is up to the job, and of course, humanity fails because it's a chymnal script. 327 00:33:02.700 --> 00:33:08.400 So I, yeah, that moment and the entire thing with Ambrose, which we'll get into next episode. 328 00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:11.039 It really bothers me. 329 00:33:11.099 --> 00:33:18.660 Uh, but, but I suppose it's, Season 5 is there's a lot of like, let's give the doctor a big speech moment. 330 00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:21.779 And I guess this is his chance to have one in this episode. 331 00:33:37.019 --> 00:33:52.079 Look, as obvious as some of these little signposts are of where things are going to go, I actually, I actually really enjoy it, you know, for that fact, it does hearken back to classic Doctor Who, I think, in so many aspects in this episode. 332 00:33:52.140 --> 00:34:03.660 And I know that it's all set up, and I know that it's all going to fall apart in part 2 as inevitably, in virtually quite a few classic and knew whose stories it does. 333 00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:08.519 But I just, I just really love the whole setup, the music, what they do generally. 334 00:34:08.579 --> 00:34:21.300 I mean, it is quite funny that, you know, a layer can run really fast and capture small boys and everything, but the moment she's captured, then she sort of loses all of her superpowers, like in other episodes where people are sort of have that sort of ability. 335 00:34:21.539 --> 00:34:39.300 And I like the fact too, that they try and do things with the Silurians, like even the tongue poisoning thing, which, you know, is a bit of a side point for Tony, but I think some of that must have been cut from the episode because it's sort of there and then it's not a bit and... 336 00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:45.000 Yeah, they give Matt a line saying it takes 24 hours to refill the venom sack. 337 00:34:45.059 --> 00:34:48.659 Which is why, which is why a layer is not a threat. 338 00:34:49.019 --> 00:34:58.500 But the, um, the tongue was, After Chipnall was told he wasn't allowed to have the 3rd eye, he's like, well, you know, in, in that case, they're just walking lizards. 339 00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:09.119 We need to give them something lizard like that gives them an edge over the humans and he came up with a chameleon-esque tongue that delivers a poison. 340 00:35:09.179 --> 00:35:16.079 But I mean, Tony Mac takes the Barbara Rice approach to being poisoned, which is just not to mention it. 341 00:35:16.139 --> 00:35:16.679 Yeah. 342 00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:17.219 Yeah. 343 00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:23.639 Because I was, I was watching F1 going, hold on, why doesn't the doctor just give him something for the hardest medical care? 344 00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:26.820 That's because he does, and I realised, oh, he never actually tells anyone. 345 00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:30.239 But doesn't the doctor also see it happen? 346 00:35:30.420 --> 00:35:32.639 is a bit of a problem there. 347 00:35:32.699 --> 00:35:39.780 But yeah, maybe he's like, oh, you know, if there was, if there was something green spreading under his skin, Tell me. 348 00:35:39.900 --> 00:35:41.940 I'm sure he'd bring it up. 349 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:45.960 It does rely heavily on the idiot plot at moment. 350 00:35:46.019 --> 00:35:52.320 Yeah, um, where uh, Rory doesn't say, no, I'm not a policeman. 351 00:35:52.380 --> 00:35:53.699 This is just a bucks. 352 00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:57.780 It's, you know, he makes up some lie about like, oh, no, it's a, it's a toy. 353 00:35:57.840 --> 00:35:58.980 Sorry, not actually the police. 354 00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:02.820 Tony doesn't say anything about the venom tunk. 355 00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:10.199 Like, people just aren't saying things that would actually expedite the plot because Gibnal needs the plot about a certain way. 356 00:36:10.260 --> 00:36:12.179 And so people are just sort of not saying stuff. 357 00:36:12.300 --> 00:36:14.579 And because it's a two-parter. 358 00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:17.460 And because he couldn't think of a more elegant way to handle these things. 359 00:36:18.119 --> 00:36:23.880 So one thing I really dislike about this is while Amy's being dragged underground. 360 00:36:24.059 --> 00:36:33.360 Um, there, you know, there's some quite good sort of very um, stabbing strings, heavy music from Murray. 361 00:36:33.420 --> 00:36:35.099 But as the scene drags on. 362 00:36:35.099 --> 00:36:39.360 And, you know, she's very slowly being dragged onto the ground. 363 00:36:39.420 --> 00:36:42.719 It segues into the piano section from AB's theme. 364 00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:52.260 And then just the fact that you're left with Karen, just Karen Gillan's face with no hair or body or anything slowly sinking into the dust. 365 00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:54.840 It's it becomes hilarious. 366 00:36:54.900 --> 00:37:04.199 And it really shouldn't be a hilarious moment, but because you've got ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, I'm like, for God's sake, really? 367 00:37:13.260 --> 00:37:24.179 I think just sort of modern production values and having a budget and things for the 1st time means that we can do things that we did in the pertu era in a really different way. 368 00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:30.960 And one of the things that's really striking is how great the big mining thing looks. 369 00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:44.219 You know, what the drill was like in Inferno and we all love Inferno to some degree, um, You know, it's a shiny room with a big sort of perspex thing in the middle of it. 370 00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:51.599 And so having this drill, which is actually largely a fairly cheap kind of graphic on a computer screen most of the time. 371 00:37:51.659 --> 00:38:05.820 But like the actual building and the computer screens and the giant tower and all of that looks great, we can now do the energy barrier from the demons with sort of modern special effects and that looks really good. 372 00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:07.619 The energy barrier is fantastic. 373 00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:08.699 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 374 00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:10.619 Like I'm sort of totally up for that. 375 00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:14.460 And going back and seeing what these things look like now in 2010. 376 00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:16.199 What do you think of the blue green grass? 377 00:38:16.260 --> 00:38:19.320 Yeah, yeah, someone's worked very hard on that. 378 00:38:21.300 --> 00:38:24.599 I actually wonder if that's all done in grading. 379 00:38:25.260 --> 00:38:28.199 No, I think they're, I think they're props. 380 00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:30.480 I think some guys are, yeah, no, it's definitely thing. 381 00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:39.539 Because in Stargate, whenever they went to another planet, which was actually just the outer wilds of Vancouver, they would just digitally recolour the plants. 382 00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:41.940 Yeah, well that's how Battlestar Galactica worked. 383 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:42.360 Yeah. 384 00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:48.420 I love it at the end, when nursery's in the TARDIS, and they get dragged down. 385 00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:52.920 Does that mean the Tartar just goes down like one of those little vent things, like that's, yeah, yeah. 386 00:38:52.980 --> 00:38:57.599 Well, I think we see on the screen the sort of earth moving sort of rapidly outside. 387 00:38:58.139 --> 00:39:00.659 You see anybody else around when that happens? 388 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:03.900 doesn't land on anyone, which is kind of fortunate, I guess. 389 00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:05.760 Yes. 390 00:39:05.820 --> 00:39:17.760 But I love the fact that they go down and then they're exploring and I had all this anticipation of what they were going to find because I just thought it'd be like, you know, by Silurians, there'd be a little lab and they'd have to go past some sort of roaring monster. 391 00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:18.719 A kazoo. 392 00:39:18.780 --> 00:39:27.420 But then, when they actually, that reveal at the end when she calls a doctor to come and look, I was completely blown away. 393 00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:29.940 I did not expect to see an entire civilisation. 394 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:33.900 It just threw me for 6 at the time thinking, 0 my goodness, where is this going to go? 395 00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:37.139 This entire city civilisation is here. 396 00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:38.340 I swore. 397 00:39:38.579 --> 00:39:42.000 I went, oh, yes. 398 00:39:42.059 --> 00:39:43.380 Sugar nuts. 399 00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:44.340 I think it looks amazing. 400 00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:52.440 I do think it looks really something and it's sort of, you know, stylishly done and the plants, all the tropical plants and stuff. 401 00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:58.980 There's a real kind of sweaty humidity to the kind of look of it and the way that it's lit and stuff like that. 402 00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:01.619 And I'm a big fan. 403 00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:03.480 I guess we're talking about the cliffhanger. 404 00:40:03.900 --> 00:40:13.800 I'm a big fan of the cliffhanger, which is not, we're in peril, but, oh goodness me, this is a different situation than what we thought it was. 405 00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:20.940 Um, or, uh, he's an interesting new piece of information or or what on earth is going to happen next. 406 00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:24.300 I think that's a much more interesting approach to the cliffhanger. 407 00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:35.880 Yeah, I actually quite like that element of the cliffhanger, although I have always wondered who brought the TARDIS down and why weren't they waiting for it at the bottom of the tunnel. 408 00:40:35.940 --> 00:40:42.119 They just sort of get dragged down and their left to wander around on their own for a bit so they can have a cliffhanger. 409 00:40:42.300 --> 00:40:42.780 But strange. 410 00:40:42.840 --> 00:41:02.280 Um, but it is, yeah, that that reveal of the, like, how, how substantial this, uh, this pod of, if you will, is, is really incredible, and it looks fantastic, especially, uh, because they, they don't actually focus on it too long, which is nice. 411 00:41:02.340 --> 00:41:04.500 It's sort of a fairly quick shot, which is good. 412 00:41:04.619 --> 00:41:08.880 The other cliffhanger is dire, I think, the... 413 00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:10.380 Oh, something's coming towards Amy. 414 00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:13.199 Oh no, that feels very, yeah. 415 00:41:13.260 --> 00:41:14.760 A big needle, isn't it? 416 00:41:14.820 --> 00:41:16.920 Yeah, I don't like that at all. 417 00:41:16.980 --> 00:41:26.159 And we'll talk about it next week, obviously, but kind of the idea that Amy is now waiting to be kind of cut open while conscious. 418 00:41:26.219 --> 00:41:33.300 I actually think that that's too much for Doctor Who and for a companion in particular. 419 00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:36.960 And it's all right to do it to Mo, I guess, although Mo's lovely. 420 00:41:37.139 --> 00:41:41.400 But, like, I don't like that as a threat. 421 00:41:41.460 --> 00:41:44.519 And I just think the kind of horror of that. 422 00:41:44.579 --> 00:41:52.920 Like, I think it does horror quite well earlier, this episode, like the, like Elliot, in particular, in the dark, through the graveyard being chased by a layer. 423 00:41:52.980 --> 00:41:53.699 That's great. 424 00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:55.679 Well, that buildup to that is great. 425 00:41:55.739 --> 00:41:56.699 All that horror is great. 426 00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:59.159 But I don't, I think the Amy thing is too much. 427 00:41:59.219 --> 00:42:11.099 It's interesting that Eric's just said like, you know, with the cliffhanger, when you start to think about various plot points in this episode, it is very typical Chris Chipnell, where it doesn't really hang together when you start to think about things. 428 00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:14.639 I was going to give this a 9 out of 10. one of my favourite episodes of the season. 429 00:42:14.699 --> 00:42:17.219 Now that we're talking, I think I'm going to downgrade it to eight. 430 00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:20.579 That's our job to ruin Doctor Who for Todd. 431 00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:28.679 I've got some information about next week's episode that'll ruin this story for Todd further. 432 00:42:28.739 --> 00:42:31.019 So look forward to that. ruined next week's episode. 433 00:42:31.139 --> 00:42:32.219 It's already ruined. 434 00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:40.320 Oh, well, this is this is a deep cut, which will um, which will shake your hive council to its very foundations. 435 00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:42.900 Only I may impose order. 436 00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:45.420 So vaguely anticipate that, Brendan. 437 00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:14.280 Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week. 438 00:43:14.340 --> 00:43:26.460 We'll be back next week to resolve our differences and find an exciting new way for all of Earth's inhabitants to live together in peace and justice, or not, in cold blood. 439 00:43:26.699 --> 00:43:42.840 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook, at FDE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger and Jody into Tara. 440 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:46.079 Eric, where can people find you online? 441 00:43:46.199 --> 00:43:49.739 Sure, I have 2 Doctor Who podcasts. 442 00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:52.320 People might be interested to check out. 443 00:43:52.380 --> 00:43:59.159 One is called Doctor Who, the Writers Room, where my co-host, Kyle Anderson and I, talk about Doctor Who, from a writing perspective. 444 00:43:59.219 --> 00:44:06.360 We did all the classic series a few years ago and have recently started doing the modern 2005 series. 445 00:44:06.420 --> 00:44:09.239 So we'll be getting around to this two-parter in a few years. 446 00:44:09.300 --> 00:44:13.860 Um, it probably won't improve upon another few years of rewatching. 447 00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:27.480 I also have a podcast called The Real McCoy, which I co-host with my friend Adam Clegg, in which we talk about the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor Who, including the novels and the audience. 448 00:44:27.539 --> 00:44:29.159 So, exciting stuff. 449 00:44:29.219 --> 00:44:46.619 And you can find me on Twitter at SJC Austinite, that's SJC A-U-S-T-E-N-I-T-E. So until next time, remember to install a good UPS in your local church building so that your exciting installing security cameras montage doesn't go completely to waste. 450 00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:49.320 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 451 00:44:49.380 --> 00:44:50.579 See you soon. 452 00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:51.239 Good night. 453 00:44:51.300 --> 00:44:52.619 Ta-da. 454 00:44:55.679 --> 00:45:01.380 That was Flight through Entirety, starring Tom Bilby, Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, and Eric Stadnick. 455 00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:03.360 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 456 00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:09.719 This episode, Don't Kill the Lizard Lady, was recorded on the 21st of February 2021 and released on the 2nd of May. 457 00:45:15.780 --> 00:45:27.599 Our lawyers here at FDE have asked me to state that the prediction that you're about to hear me making does not in any way constitute an admission of guilt, and that I am not claiming responsibility for any harm that may have befallen any individual referred to hereafter. 458 00:45:33.659 --> 00:45:35.940 I can't believe we haven't been recording. 459 00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:36.840 That was all gold. 460 00:45:36.900 --> 00:45:38.400 Yeah, well, you'll never hear it. 461 00:45:38.460 --> 00:45:40.860 Well, I mean, Prince Philip, it's Sue us. 462 00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:42.360 Well, yeah, as usual. 463 00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:45.119 It's from beyond the ground. 464 00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:46.920 From being with, probably. out. 465 00:45:46.980 --> 00:45:48.960 No, but this doesn't go out until kind of. 466 00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:50.579 What do you mean, no, he died? 467 00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:53.340 No, no, he's still alive, but he will be dead by the time. 468 00:45:57.059 --> 00:46:00.239 So Richard can finally tell a story about the wetsuit. 469 00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:02.039 Yeah, that's right. 470 00:46:02.099 --> 00:46:02.579 That's right. 471 00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:10.440 So, um, So I think this is sort of, this seems to be working okay, although we are sort of quiet and Eric sort of flipping. 472 00:46:10.500 --> 00:46:11.159 Is that? 473 00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:11.880 Oh, that was good. 474 00:46:11.940 --> 00:46:12.840 Well, that was a big laugh. 475 00:46:12.900 --> 00:46:13.380 Yeah. 476 00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:15.960 And what happens? 477 00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:17.340 I try to move away when I laugh. 478 00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:23.280 So I think that what happens...