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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:26:30

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Hello, and welcome back to Quite Your Entirety, the only Doctor

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Who podcast who, in recent years, has been sending probes deeper

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and deeper into Spain.

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Sorry about that.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan And I'm a big mannequin on the back of your Gregory Pix

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scooter for this episode.

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Which means I'm actually Kim Catchell from Sex and the City Otto.

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There you go.

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She played.

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She was the eponymous hero in mannequin.

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Would love to say about fetishising of mannequins today, so do

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stay tuned. in the 70s. wasn't expecting this at all.

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So without any further ado, we're breaking the last taboo and

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going into colour, with spearhead from space.

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Now, Richard, I do believe this was yours.

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Honestly, it's not just backwards in time or indeed forward some

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time into colour.

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Should we just say something exciting because wearing colour?

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It is totally different, isn't it?

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What is this universe?

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This isn't anywhere I've been before.

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It's all film, isn't it?

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I mean, it's all shot up.

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You know why it's all a middle film. don't you?

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Dear fellow.

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But I'll let you say.

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No, no, it's just because, you know, there was there was a bit of

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a strike with the rehearsals, spaces, but there actually could

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have still gone onto VT, but the BBC weren't going to sacrifice

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any of their rehearsal time for their 2 absolutely lead shows

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which could never be cut.

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Do you know what they were?

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The black and white minstrel show.

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And yes, it's Lulu.

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There are lots of French and Saunders crossovers in this, or

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should they add that crossovers?

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So yeah, Lulu is the reason that we get so many 7 parts in this

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season.

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She's very greedy, Lulu.

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More champagne for Lulu.

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She's the reason for the season in fact.

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Oh, yeah.

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It's going to be like that, isn't it?

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Oh, sorry.

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Well, we're in colour.

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I wonder we're all coming up daisies.

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I do like what you're wearing.

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I actually think there's a snide reference to the strike in the

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actual dialogue because General Scobe tools autoplastics, and he's

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impressed by the automation, you know, replacing everything with

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machines.

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He says, damn machines can't go on strike, can they?

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Yeah, that's that is a real, and you know it's homes or Terrence

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sticks, big, smarty pants about it, good for them.

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Um, yeah, we're in we're in this beautiful coloured, lovely, lovely

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thing, which I'm really happy to see if Mary Whitehouse was with

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us had the very 1st nude scene in Doctor Who.

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Oh, it is too.

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It's a complete afterthought.

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They were actually everything filmed, including the Brigadiers

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Weirdly, the Brigadiers Office, and the Cottage Hospital.

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All the rest and the grounds, it's all in the one place.

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It's one of the earl of the area, some old house, and it had been

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used as an army base in the war, but that little coronet is

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because he'd been an earl, and so he had a coronet over his little

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it was off one of the, um, changing rooms off one of his drawing

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rooms.

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And yes, yes, all of that is there, but you get to see, you

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actually get to see a little bit of the back bottom cleft of Uncle

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Pertwick.

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No, I should actually say the cough 6 shock shot, shouldn't I?

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And the tattoo.

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And did you notice people took, you know, he got that.

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He doesn't remember getting that in the war one night, so it was

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even in a drunken rage, but have you did you notice the shape of

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it?

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Is it a snake thing?

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It's curled around about, have another look at the doctor's wife.

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It's the corsair symbol, which really makes me think, well, you

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know, of course there had been another forms and other shapes.

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I'm wondering if there'd been a bit of time lord branding, with a

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bit of heavy corsair on doctor action in a past life or indeed in

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season 6B. Well, yeah, because Matt Smith's doctor does say the

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Corsair was a naughty woman at one point or worth to that effect.

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I'm putting it out there.

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Well, I do wish you wouldn't because it's not a virtually getting

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it on with really anything.

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No, it's kind of prospect.

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There's kind of lovely rompy innocence to this.

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We talked.

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Well, this is not the 70s, to be honest.

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This is still 1969, written in 69 filmed in 69.

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The moon landing occurred during filming.

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Yeah.

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Because John Pertwee was disgusted that nobody else wanted to

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watch it.

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So Carrie John sat down to watch it with him and they bonded over

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that.

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Okay.

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Because they were staying in a hotel and everyone else was off

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having a drink and like sitting in the foyer looking at the

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television saying, this is important.

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Why isn't anybody else here?

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Unbelievable, the Doctor Who team would not be sitting and

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watching the thing that really is, you know, ostensibly what most

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of Australia is supposed to be about, ish, except it's not really

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is it?

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Yeah, well, Terence Sticks was probably saying, oh, we did that

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last year, but with ice quarries.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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That's the thing.

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You just touched on something that's probably, you know, we've got

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colour.

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Sorry.

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No, no. exciting and new and beautiful things, but we've actually

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got Carrie John.

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Oh, she's spectacular.

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This is how you know it's not a kid show anymore.

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Yeah.

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We've got a grown-up, just banging on about, please, can we have

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another Barbara figure, a mature type of woman in it again?

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I think we got one.

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When the show starts, I think Jackie Hill is 34, said, ooh.

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Um, and carries carries 30.

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So we have another grown-up. for the 1st time.

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And she's terrific.

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She's really, really funny and sarcastic with the brigadier.

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How could she not be in a pre-proto-bubble wrap camel here?

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Oh, terrible.

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What is that?

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Is it just the earliest sign of airbags because the cars didn't

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come with it and she was just really concerned for humanity?

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She's so into a jacket.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's really just how she could withstand the Gormous gaze of Derek

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Sherman.

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You did get to see him, as we know, that, you know, the big

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producer guy.

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He is the one standing in the undercroft in the car park.

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What kind of deal?

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What actor could not have delivered a line?

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A non-audible line that he just had to look gormous and open his

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mouth?

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He's really terrible in that role.

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He's really terrible in that role too.

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There's something going on there.

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His name was Gilbert, the actor who was kicked out and skilled.

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Oh, do we know that?

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Yes, we do.

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Yes.

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So Gilbert got sadly shafted so that he could wear an outfit.

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But back to Carrie, though, she really is the best companion since

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Barbara.

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It's not even, yeah, it's not, it's the closest easy game, Swanson

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the Avengers, but it's also quite strange report, character of

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Annabel in that, or Jason King, where you have, I've got the

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succession of women in, around, you know, Justin King played by

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Patrick.

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Peter Winger?

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Peter and Go, whom we own, who was also in Planet of Fire and

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Prison.

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No, he was number 2 in the prisoner.

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He was number 2 in the prisoner.

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Yeah, his career was sadly curtailed in the 70s and really, really

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going really well when he was discovered in his very own form of

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cottage hospital on one of the commons in London, which is very

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sad.

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He'd been Alan Bates's partner for ever and ever and ever.

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It's very sad.

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We've actually got a doctor now who's, You see the least doctor

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ish so far of the doctors?

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One of the things about this is how peripheral the doctor is for

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the action.

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It's great, isn't it?

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It is terrific.

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And, you know, for a while, perhaps he has some elastic passed

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over his mouth, which is nice.

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But he's doing his own stunts too.

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Yeah, yeah.

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But he's not elastic.

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He's a bit sort of trout-ish.

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There are little moments, you know, the Delphons or the Delphoids

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or whatever the hell they are who, you know, can be with their

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eyebrows.

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As I'm doing now, dear listener.

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And he does the chair.

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The only way I can get away with swearing on this.

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But he's quite charming with Liz, you know, he is sort of funny

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but no one really knows who he is yet and his character doesn't

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really properly settle down until later in the season.

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Which is a really good way of doing it.

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They did it sort of with Pat. in Power of the Daleks when he was

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really playing it, you know, hype away and jumping about.

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Yeah, and we weren't sure, you know, where he was going to be

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coming from.

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So then this has to be, and it's kind of a throwback throw forward

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to Capaldi.

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Am I a good man?

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We're getting that with Pat.

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With this one, we're actually getting the adventures of Cat Weasel

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in a wheelchair.

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Or actually, if Jason King and Tara King have had a lovely

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daughter.

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I think he would be a 3rd doctor.

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See, I think that it's really very effective, but pushing him to

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the periphery because it does mean that when he finally comes to

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the unit base.

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The brigadier doesn't trust him.

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And even though we've seen him fall out of the TARDIS and we, the

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viewer, know that he was going to be sent to earth with a new face

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we don't really trust him either.

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It's really harking back to the fact that we didn't trust

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Hartnall's doctor because of the mystery around him.

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And yeah, we didn't trust Pat's doctor, but we did have Polly

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saying, oh, no, he is the doctor to build up the, there's no

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really to build up the trust here. very unnerving.

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You've just got it.

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This is why this is such a risk, not just for the for the viewer

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in the sitting room, but for the BBC because apart from the brig.

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And, you know, thumbs up if you remember him because it's only 2

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stories and it's a while ago.

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If you don't remember the character of the brigadier or the word

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unit, there is nothing in this to tell you it's Doctor Who other

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than the words on maybe a bit the theme-ish.

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Oh, and the TARS. which is pick and then it's gone.

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You know, it turns up again as a box in the corner.

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That's it.

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Yeah, and you don't see the interior, which...

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You don't see the interior.

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The iconic bit, if you like, because police boxes were still not

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uncommon at this point.

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So the really unique thing about the show was the big white

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gleaming controller.

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But a nor was John Perkley.

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Not uncommon, but he, you know, we forget what a huge star, what a

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big thing radio comedy was, you mentioned before the people.

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You know, around the hall was getting over 20000000 listeners on a

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Sunday afternoon.

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The Navy Lark, which had been going since the late 50s, was still

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going and would be recorded through the Pertwear era. was massive

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massive hit, and he played Chief Petty Officer get this for

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casting pert week.

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Yeah, everyone used the same names in that.

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It also had Leslie Phillips and I'd still played on BBC 4 extra.

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I keep plugging it every week and it's lovely.

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It's quite sure it's dated.

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But it's naturally, I'm going to still listen to it and it's

250
00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:45.240
lovely.

251
00:10:45.299 --> 00:10:50.340
It just makes me think how miserable life in how post-war it still

252
00:10:50.340 --> 00:10:50.639
was.

253
00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:54.419
It sort of was, and it's sort of charming, but it's, no, it gets a

254
00:10:54.419 --> 00:10:56.100
bit risqué in sort of Leslie Phillips.

255
00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:59.639
It gets quite blue by the 70s and it's much more like, I'm sorry

256
00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:03.120
I'll read that again, which, of course, Brendan's mentioned before

257
00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:06.600
are the goodies and the Pythons before they became, before the

258
00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:08.159
goodies became the goodies and the Pythons.

259
00:11:08.220 --> 00:11:09.480
Bertley is a big, big hit.

260
00:11:09.539 --> 00:11:13.320
Was it Carrie who said I wanted to do it because pertly I'd been a

261
00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:16.500
fan of pertly as a little girl and he just gave her a shuddering

262
00:11:16.500 --> 00:11:19.080
little concept. mean, my dear.

263
00:11:19.139 --> 00:11:23.700
But the thing that's so interesting about this is, is, we get a

264
00:11:23.700 --> 00:11:25.320
monster that's really surprising.

265
00:11:25.379 --> 00:11:29.460
We get the, when they talk about the, um, the yeti and the loo in

266
00:11:29.460 --> 00:11:32.100
Tooting Vic, and are you all aware that the monster was actually

267
00:11:32.100 --> 00:11:34.559
until reasonably late in the day going to be the yeti?

268
00:11:34.620 --> 00:11:36.659
Oh, yes, a bloody Gen.

269
00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:40.139
Yep, that's why you got the yetis on his on his photo call, his

270
00:11:40.139 --> 00:11:41.039
2nd photo call.

271
00:11:41.100 --> 00:11:41.820
Yeah.

272
00:11:41.820 --> 00:11:45.179
See, I wonder why, because he invents the Yeti in the loo on

273
00:11:45.179 --> 00:11:48.000
Toosing Baker at least popularises that as a phrase.

274
00:11:48.059 --> 00:11:49.860
You just sort of think, well, you never had any.

275
00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:51.059
Yes, you would.

276
00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:53.519
Yeah, well, we don't know what happened, do we, in Tooting Beck

277
00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:56.220
because what with the cast and call or why they were called off.

278
00:11:56.220 --> 00:11:58.379
What happened in tears?

279
00:11:58.379 --> 00:11:59.460
In tears.

280
00:11:59.580 --> 00:12:02.100
Tears of fuzzy fur filts.

281
00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:05.340
But yeah, we've got we've got mannequins and I think it's the most

282
00:12:05.340 --> 00:12:06.539
exciting and creepy thing.

283
00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:09.000
I looked into this because it really, it's the bit everyone

284
00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:09.659
remembers.

285
00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:12.480
But funnily enough, when you read the papers at the time, you know

286
00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:15.600
I admitted to being nerdy enough to go back and read stuff in the

287
00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:16.259
papers.

288
00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:17.940
People thought it was an episode of The Avengers.

289
00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:21.000
They actually got English reviews, and I love that episode of the

290
00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:22.919
Avengers last week when the dummies burst out of it.

291
00:12:22.980 --> 00:12:25.559
No, it just ended, dear.

292
00:12:25.620 --> 00:12:29.580
We're still getting Tara King Epps in the 70, weren't we?

293
00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:30.720
Is it the 1st instance?

294
00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:35.820
of a monster which is a commonplace everyday item turned into a

295
00:12:35.820 --> 00:12:36.179
monster.

296
00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:36.960
I think it might be.

297
00:12:37.019 --> 00:12:38.519
Apart from foam.

298
00:12:38.580 --> 00:12:39.960
Apart from foam.

299
00:12:40.019 --> 00:12:43.740
And I suppose the whole radio thing with the side member, you know

300
00:12:43.740 --> 00:12:44.399
the real guys.

301
00:12:44.460 --> 00:12:46.019
That was a nice touch, wasn't it?

302
00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:47.399
that the little...

303
00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:47.759
You're right.

304
00:12:47.820 --> 00:12:49.320
And the 70s will do it beautifully.

305
00:12:49.379 --> 00:12:51.539
What do you think about the premise?

306
00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:56.220
There is now, you know, no spinning TARDIS as such that we landed

307
00:12:56.220 --> 00:12:57.419
on earth with a different place.

308
00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:01.440
We're actually doing Adam adamant or mini James Bond or actually

309
00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:05.580
department S shows that ITC had been famous for, which kind of

310
00:13:05.580 --> 00:13:07.259
already passed glory.

311
00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:08.580
Strange reports are what I mentioned.

312
00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:12.059
I mean, is it trying to be Avengers-ish as well, like the lovely

313
00:13:12.059 --> 00:13:13.080
car and...

314
00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:14.399
I think it's trying to be war machines.

315
00:13:15.659 --> 00:13:19.019
I just, well, look, I'll have things to say.

316
00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:21.840
I think when we reach the end of the season, I've been through 25

317
00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:24.419
episodes. looking forward to that, too, listen.

318
00:13:26.460 --> 00:13:31.200
But it is it does seem like they've cancelled my show and replaced

319
00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:31.379
it.

320
00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:32.940
I really get what you said.

321
00:13:32.940 --> 00:13:35.399
Yeah, I really get what you meant last time when you said this is

322
00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:37.620
the end of Doctor Who and I thought, well, no, it's just the

323
00:13:37.620 --> 00:13:40.559
beginning, but it really isn't Doctor Who at all.

324
00:13:40.620 --> 00:13:41.039
No.

325
00:13:41.100 --> 00:13:42.659
And we're getting into interesting worlds.

326
00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:45.360
I'm not just talking about the cop 6 shock shot, which I have to

327
00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:47.279
say again, because I really have to practice saying that.

328
00:13:47.700 --> 00:13:51.059
But we've got Bob Holmes on illicit love.

329
00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:53.759
And he's quite a quirky bloke and he does like playing with

330
00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:54.419
people's heads.

331
00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:56.220
He was very naughty in rehearsals.

332
00:13:56.279 --> 00:14:01.320
He was the one spinning the proto-colum bacon, cheeky jokes and

333
00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:04.019
playing it up, especially with the ladies.

334
00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.840
Um, and terroristics love that, which is one of the reasons they

335
00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:08.580
had him around so much, he was fun.

336
00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:12.539
The whole concept of the lifelike mannequin.

337
00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:15.720
Had actually caused a kind of stir.

338
00:14:15.779 --> 00:14:16.740
Can we say for some?

339
00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:19.440
Have a drink with a woman called Mary Brosnan.

340
00:14:19.500 --> 00:14:22.559
And her company was called Carriage Trade, and it was a US company

341
00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:23.580
in the 1950s.

342
00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:26.580
Before that, they'd been quite stylised and they looked actually

343
00:14:26.580 --> 00:14:29.820
not unlike current day meal game and cybermen.

344
00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:34.500
The store dummies were quite deco and stylised and streamlined.

345
00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:38.340
But then we started getting actual really lifelike ones.

346
00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:42.419
Um, there was a really big American fashion designer called Lester

347
00:14:42.419 --> 00:14:44.820
Garber in the 50s.

348
00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:48.299
He was ostensibly queer, but he actually, and there is a name for

349
00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:52.620
this autoerotica, he fell in love. with a dummy called her

350
00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:53.220
Cynthia.

351
00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:57.899
She became his constant, constant companion, and he took her to

352
00:14:57.899 --> 00:15:01.019
every 1st night, and every dinner party.

353
00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:03.419
Liza Minnelli's own mother, Judy.

354
00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:06.960
Judy Garland actually commented on, oh, Leicester has brought his

355
00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:07.919
tire gam.

356
00:15:08.220 --> 00:15:11.580
It's a note in one of the books of one of the diaries.

357
00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:11.820
Yeah.

358
00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:16.320
He was notorious for it, but this became fetishising of mannequins

359
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:17.100
became a big thing.

360
00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:19.620
It must start with Pygmalia, mate.

361
00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:20.159
Surely.

362
00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:20.940
That's a nice thought.

363
00:15:21.059 --> 00:15:25.559
Yeah, it's a statue and it comes to life. you know, that's a very

364
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:26.220
old myth.

365
00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:29.580
But the whole thing is fashion with when the Xandra Rhodes ones

366
00:15:29.580 --> 00:15:34.799
Adele Rootstein, what a name, was Mary Brosnan's equal in the UK

367
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:38.460
produced, ever more lifelike thing, and there was actually a thing

368
00:15:38.460 --> 00:15:40.379
between these 2 women to produce even more.

369
00:15:40.500 --> 00:15:43.500
The Xandra Rhodes dummies, if you remember Xandra Rhodes, look

370
00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:47.220
with a shock of pink hair in the 70s, and her very, it's actually

371
00:15:47.220 --> 00:15:50.879
pre-boy George, the look, that in the 70s, beautiful fabric's very

372
00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:53.879
gauzy, and really pronounced nipples, and then they were sent over

373
00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:58.620
to the US, they were sawn off before they could be...

374
00:15:58.740 --> 00:16:01.740
Yeah, before they would be allowed to be shown in the US and they

375
00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:05.220
started to get very anatomically correct to the point that they

376
00:16:05.220 --> 00:16:08.820
were having to then change other sections of these things.

377
00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:12.360
So there was a sort of this kind of thing of the dummies must have

378
00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:15.720
been, I'm hoping, at least in Bob Holmes's head when he wrote this

379
00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:16.620
story, just because.

380
00:16:17.700 --> 00:16:21.960
There is something about the face of them and being so close, and

381
00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:25.980
of course he touches on it also with 2 swords, the uncanny valley

382
00:16:25.980 --> 00:16:27.419
2 like to be comfortable.

383
00:16:27.539 --> 00:16:28.919
Well, I think that's it.

384
00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:31.799
And I think that I mean, I've heard stories of children being

385
00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:34.259
unnerved and frightened by mannequins.

386
00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:35.580
Well, it's us, isn't it?

387
00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:36.600
Yeah, absolutely.

388
00:16:36.659 --> 00:16:38.820
On watching the show when we were little.

389
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:40.500
This was on for the English listener.

390
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:44.639
This was on constantly pretty much in the late 70s, early 80s

391
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:45.000
wasn't it?

392
00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:46.139
I'm looking at you.

393
00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:47.399
Yeah, yeah, it's great.

394
00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:48.000
Not bread.

395
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:54.299
They used to show from Spearhead from Space all the way through to

396
00:16:54.299 --> 00:16:55.139
whatever.

397
00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:57.059
But we didn't get the other 3 stories.

398
00:16:57.059 --> 00:16:58.080
No, we see them soon.

399
00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:58.379
No.

400
00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:00.539
Or any of season 8 because the master was in it.

401
00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:01.379
That's right.

402
00:17:01.379 --> 00:17:02.399
We never saw Delgado.

403
00:17:02.460 --> 00:17:03.480
Yeah, it repeat, yeah.

404
00:17:03.539 --> 00:17:05.579
So they would just repeat sort of bits and pieces.

405
00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:10.619
My actual person counted with this story, though, was in Terrence

406
00:17:10.619 --> 00:17:15.059
Dix's novel, Doctor Who and the Auton invasion, which I still

407
00:17:15.059 --> 00:17:18.119
think is actually superior to the transmitted story.

408
00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:19.619
It's really, really.

409
00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:22.799
It was one of the 1st or was it the 1st new target novel to come

410
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:23.039
out?

411
00:17:23.099 --> 00:17:23.640
I think it was.

412
00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:28.380
Because before that, they'd republished the...

413
00:17:28.380 --> 00:17:28.740
Exactly.

414
00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:30.539
Crusaders.

415
00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:31.680
We're Planet?

416
00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:35.880
Yes, the exciting adventure with the Zabi, exciting adventure of

417
00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:39.599
Daleks, an exciting adventure with rapey Saracens. right.

418
00:17:39.660 --> 00:17:41.940
So this was this was quite an early one.

419
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:43.380
And like I was a kid.

420
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.000
We've talked about this.

421
00:17:45.059 --> 00:17:51.059
I used to get maybe 7 Doctor Who novelisations and lay by them at

422
00:17:51.059 --> 00:17:52.319
David Jones.

423
00:17:52.380 --> 00:17:54.000
I used to get them from the local news agency.

424
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:55.619
They were there each Saturday, yeah.

425
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:57.660
And, you know, they were like $2 a year.

426
00:17:57.720 --> 00:17:59.819
Yeah, something I would say, but my pocket money and then take

427
00:17:59.819 --> 00:18:00.359
more home.

428
00:18:00.420 --> 00:18:03.720
And I read and reread the auton invasion.

429
00:18:03.779 --> 00:18:07.019
And then my friend at primary school told me that all-time

430
00:18:07.019 --> 00:18:09.960
invasion was actually on television and I was shocked to hear that

431
00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:11.400
it was called Spearhead from Space.

432
00:18:11.460 --> 00:18:12.960
Which makes no sense at all.

433
00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:14.819
Well, I still think it makes no sense.

434
00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:18.839
No, the original working type of facsimile.

435
00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:19.680
I like that.

436
00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:20.579
There's so much things.

437
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:23.880
I think that's possibly better for an adult audience.

438
00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:26.099
There might have been a lot of children who didn't immediately

439
00:18:26.099 --> 00:18:27.299
know what facsimile was.

440
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:29.519
That being said, I didn't need him.

441
00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:30.660
He's a bit...

442
00:18:30.660 --> 00:18:31.859
They were going up to it as well.

443
00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:36.180
They were going much more adulty in the original than the

444
00:18:36.180 --> 00:18:36.539
original.

445
00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.079
There were so many drafts from what we know, but, you know, much

446
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:42.420
more adulty and kind of and more violent.

447
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:43.380
They turned down the violence.

448
00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:45.420
Or the transmitted thing.

449
00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:48.779
They were really being influenced by, you know, the film industry

450
00:18:48.779 --> 00:18:50.880
had suddenly jumped to grishy realism.

451
00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.720
It was very English thing, but it actually, from what I could see

452
00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:57.180
it actually started with Steve McQueen's bullet in 1968.

453
00:18:57.359 --> 00:18:57.900
Have you seen that?

454
00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:03.359
It's in itself influenced by advertising at the time, which was

455
00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:07.619
which became moments of people just sitting staring out into the

456
00:19:07.619 --> 00:19:10.740
blue and smoking grisly with a girl sitting there, almost in her

457
00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:13.440
dialogue and just the flowers moving, all the cars moving, great

458
00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:17.700
speed and jump cutting and such like, this is kind of like our

459
00:19:17.700 --> 00:19:19.980
boy's own version of that style.

460
00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:22.619
It's almost like a Mike Hodges film.

461
00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:25.859
You know, get Carter with Michael Kane, that kind of, or an

462
00:19:25.859 --> 00:19:26.940
episode of the Sweeney.

463
00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:29.700
And we're getting some even more of that as we go on in this

464
00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:32.640
season and action by havoc starts to jump in.

465
00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:33.960
Sadly, we don't have them just yet.

466
00:19:34.019 --> 00:19:36.599
But, um, what are they going for here?

467
00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:38.519
The tone is all over the shop.

468
00:19:38.579 --> 00:19:42.779
But in this 1st one, it still feels that like that lovely Indian

469
00:19:42.779 --> 00:19:45.420
summer, we've talked about the end of the 60s where childhood

470
00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:51.539
drama and all these other new kinds of making film for TV and are

471
00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:52.079
together.

472
00:19:52.140 --> 00:19:55.079
So we've got silly romps in wheelchairs that are more like a

473
00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:58.740
Margaret Rutherford wheeling film from the 50s when he's racing

474
00:19:58.740 --> 00:19:59.099
along.

475
00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:02.759
And then we have, I think, my favourite villain of the early 70s

476
00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:06.779
shot through vertical broadline glass so that his eyes look like a

477
00:20:06.779 --> 00:20:07.140
flies.

478
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:08.339
It's Channing.

479
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:10.079
It's Hugh Burton's chatting.

480
00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:10.980
Chatting.

481
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:12.660
I think I think he's the...

482
00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:15.180
He's actually the Delgado of season seven.

483
00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:16.859
He's just superb.

484
00:20:16.980 --> 00:20:20.099
He was so terrifying in the novel and in those illustrations that

485
00:20:20.099 --> 00:20:22.799
I was actually finally a bit disappointed when I saw him in real

486
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:23.099
life.

487
00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:27.000
Yeah, but I actually find him, he's in immobility.

488
00:20:27.059 --> 00:20:30.779
The fact where he just stands in the phone box doesn't do anything

489
00:20:30.779 --> 00:20:32.819
doesn't need to lift the receiver.

490
00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:34.440
I think that is terrific.

491
00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:36.539
And the shot that you mentioned where he is shot through the glass

492
00:20:36.539 --> 00:20:39.180
and he looks like he has multiple eyes and things.

493
00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:41.339
I think that is terrifically good.

494
00:20:41.579 --> 00:20:48.299
What really gets me about his character is Robert Holmes sort of

495
00:20:48.299 --> 00:20:51.000
takes the trick out of David Whitaker's book in that he puts off

496
00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:53.519
the confrontation between the doctor and Channing.

497
00:20:53.579 --> 00:20:55.980
Aside from Channing, trying to kidnap the doctor.

498
00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:57.839
They don't meet until that last 5 minutes.

499
00:20:57.900 --> 00:20:59.940
Well, in fact, the doctor's so sideline.

500
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.119
Because we're setting up the premise of the show, the new premise

501
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:04.259
in episodes one and two.

502
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:09.960
His sideline, but the episode two, Cliffhanger, is ransom in

503
00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:10.619
peril.

504
00:21:10.619 --> 00:21:13.740
And then the episode three, Cliffhanger, is Scobe in peril.

505
00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:17.279
Like the doctor is interacting with the plot enough to be in peril

506
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:19.140
enough to motivator cliffhanger.

507
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.019
He really is, you know, on the sideline completely.

508
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:25.619
And so, It really is only an episode 4 that he gets in any way

509
00:21:25.619 --> 00:21:27.180
involved in the plot.

510
00:21:27.299 --> 00:21:29.880
And I guess, you know, that's a little bit like the Christmas

511
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:30.660
invasion.

512
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.599
But I don't think it's quite as conscious or as clever as what

513
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.000
happened in the Christmas invasion, which is the Christmas

514
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:40.859
invasion shows you how the characters can't cope with the aliens

515
00:21:40.859 --> 00:21:42.539
in the absence of the doctor.

516
00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:44.519
That's not quite what we get here.

517
00:21:44.579 --> 00:21:45.480
Do you know what I mean?

518
00:21:45.539 --> 00:21:48.900
He is just sort of sidelined because we kind of want to see him

519
00:21:48.900 --> 00:21:52.319
swinging into action once he's bedded into place and we know what

520
00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:55.019
his relationship is with Liz and what his relationship is with the

521
00:21:55.019 --> 00:21:58.680
brigadier and why he's staying and, you know, what's going on in

522
00:21:58.680 --> 00:21:59.880
this sort of new premise.

523
00:21:59.940 --> 00:22:03.839
See, what I really love about that scene is it gives us the best

524
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:06.720
idea of Pert, his character in the story, which is when he comes

525
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:08.039
in and confronts Channing.

526
00:22:08.099 --> 00:22:09.779
He's just very conversational.

527
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:13.619
Like they're talking about a piece of modern art at a party when

528
00:22:13.619 --> 00:22:16.380
they're talking about the nestine.

529
00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:19.440
Let's not say what body part it looks like pulsating in the

530
00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:19.859
cabinet.

531
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:23.160
No, I think we have to, when we get up to that because I'm sorry

532
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:24.660
it is the 1st sphincter in space.

533
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:26.700
And we get, no, really it is even as a boy.

534
00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:29.759
I thought, is this Kenny Everett doing a special effects?

535
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:31.079
Because Captain Kremen?

536
00:22:31.140 --> 00:22:34.019
It's very, it's very Thagoid, isn't it?

537
00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:35.160
That's amazing.

538
00:22:35.220 --> 00:22:38.400
Not until the Blu-ray. you realise there's green dungeon there as

539
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:38.640
well.

540
00:22:38.700 --> 00:22:40.440
You can't see that on the thing either.

541
00:22:40.500 --> 00:22:41.519
That's a new machine.

542
00:22:41.579 --> 00:22:43.440
Did you know about the new green guns machine?

543
00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:44.519
We'll see a lot more of it.

544
00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:45.359
Yes, we do indeed.

545
00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:49.799
In the, in the novelisation, again, the, um, there's a great

546
00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:54.900
superb picture of this sort of terrifying octopus, um, advancing

547
00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:58.799
on Pertu and Liz, and just seeing that it was a sort of sad box

548
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:02.039
with some playing film in it and someone throwing tentacles out of

549
00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:05.400
it, um, was a huge, hideous disappointment to me.

550
00:23:05.460 --> 00:23:09.240
And pirtually, you know, he's still acting in season seven, but he

551
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:10.980
will retire from acting.

552
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:12.599
Oh, yeah.

553
00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:13.500
Surely soon.

554
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:17.640
He has a few tips, you know, that he increasingly relies on. like

555
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:20.579
rubbing the back of his neck or rubbing the side of his mouth or

556
00:23:20.579 --> 00:23:23.339
the famous pertwee death pose with one knee.

557
00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:25.259
He's being poised.

558
00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:27.299
Lots of less is more.

559
00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:29.759
And here we get his 1st real proper gurney.

560
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:31.019
You know, he'll go.

561
00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:34.319
He'll go in again when he's attacked by the Silurians in Doctor

562
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:37.799
Who and the Silurians, but he really sells the being attacked by

563
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:41.940
tentacles by rolling his mouth about and crossing his eyes and

564
00:23:41.940 --> 00:23:42.180
things.

565
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:45.000
It really is a virtuoso performance.

566
00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:49.140
The thing about Pertley's performance is that he's the one that's

567
00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:50.279
really out of sorts in this.

568
00:23:50.339 --> 00:23:56.220
He's famously, he said, you know, when he when he asked Bryant and

569
00:23:56.220 --> 00:23:57.900
Sherman when they appointed him how to play it.

570
00:23:57.960 --> 00:23:59.220
He said, well, we want Pert Week.

571
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:00.059
Who the hell is that?

572
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:04.619
And you can see he's, he was apparently quite nervous that um, even

573
00:24:04.619 --> 00:24:07.500
of Nick, because Nick had been in the show before and knew what he

574
00:24:07.500 --> 00:24:07.799
was doing.

575
00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:10.619
And Carrie, because she'd just been working with Olivier.

576
00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:16.619
That was enough to daunt him, but he's a very multi-layered man, as

577
00:24:16.619 --> 00:24:19.619
we know from, I've got his book here, Moonboots and dinner suits

578
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:21.960
put a picture up there and it doesn't really come across because

579
00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:25.380
he's such a raconteur, but he was terribly nervous and will go on

580
00:24:25.380 --> 00:24:27.720
later in the season about himself as a performer.

581
00:24:27.779 --> 00:24:31.980
He was very reliable to be able to do pretty much any accent

582
00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:35.700
Kenneth Williams school of any accent as long as it's John.

583
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:37.259
You can always tell it's him.

584
00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:39.900
But um, and do any role.

585
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:42.359
I mean, it can be, you know, as camp and as silly and fun as you

586
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:42.539
like.

587
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:45.240
But yeah, he had no handle on this.

588
00:24:45.299 --> 00:24:48.960
And I think that's actually why he's so likeable in this story.

589
00:24:49.019 --> 00:24:51.779
You really do get the feeling that he's finding his feet.

590
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:56.279
He does become much less likeable in later series and he...

591
00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:57.240
Even later through this.

592
00:24:57.299 --> 00:25:02.640
Yeah, later he starts to get a little bit too London Club, doesn't

593
00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:02.819
he?

594
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:05.579
Yeah, there's that, but there's also just the fact that he

595
00:25:05.579 --> 00:25:08.700
antagonises people in a way that actually makes it more difficult

596
00:25:08.700 --> 00:25:09.660
for him.

597
00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:14.279
And the, in particular the way that he antagonises Dr. Lawrence in

598
00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:14.759
the next story.

599
00:25:14.819 --> 00:25:15.599
Yeah.

600
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:17.819
But Boffins were famous for doing that.

601
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:20.819
And he sort of doesn't, oh, he doesn't.

602
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:21.420
Oh, yeah.

603
00:25:21.420 --> 00:25:23.579
You know, like he is just obnoxious.

604
00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:29.700
And he starts to do it to Ralph Cornish and the brigadier pulls

605
00:25:29.700 --> 00:25:33.599
him up and then he kind of backs off and actually ends up having

606
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:35.039
quite a nice relationship with him.

607
00:25:35.099 --> 00:25:40.799
But he, yeah, it's, it's not a take on the doctor that I like very

608
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:41.099
much.

609
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:45.539
I don't think he's that much fun to watch.

610
00:25:45.660 --> 00:25:50.339
Well, I think you and I are going to disagree a lot during this.

611
00:25:50.339 --> 00:25:54.779
Because I do see the qualities you're talking about, but I think

612
00:25:54.779 --> 00:25:58.200
that they are more complicated than just the doctor being

613
00:25:58.200 --> 00:25:59.099
obnoxious.

614
00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:01.440
Yeah, I mean, he's always been a novel.

615
00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:03.180
Just remember Lau saying, oh, don't mind him.

616
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:04.619
He just likes to irritate people.

617
00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:08.700
You know, like he has always been irritating, but there's a

618
00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:09.960
particular kind of irritating.

619
00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:11.339
There's a very Oxbridge.

620
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:14.880
I just saw the imitation going last night with Benedict

621
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:19.559
Cumberbatch. we own him as Alan Turing and that very much Oxbridge

622
00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:23.220
professor thing, really indifferent and caustic and callous and

623
00:26:23.220 --> 00:26:25.980
indismissive, is all throughout the film.

624
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:28.380
And when you think about other portrayals, we've seen the films

625
00:26:28.380 --> 00:26:32.759
shot in the 60s and earlier of those sort of, it's, Not

626
00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:33.839
necessarily making excuses.

627
00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:35.940
I'm just trying to see where Perp's character was coming from.

628
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:37.920
I'd like to think it's not who he is himself.

629
00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:42.359
It is patrician and patronising.

630
00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:46.319
It does make him difficult to like on occasion, doesn't it?

631
00:26:46.380 --> 00:26:49.500
I think and I think they really like what character is the

632
00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:50.279
brigadier in this.

633
00:26:50.339 --> 00:26:51.539
And I think he's really terrific.

634
00:26:51.539 --> 00:26:55.859
And it's something about Courtney's performance, and you don't

635
00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:59.400
quite get it in the 60s ones, although he's heading towards their

636
00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:00.359
invasion.

637
00:27:00.420 --> 00:27:03.299
But he always does it with a slight curl of the lip, but he is

638
00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:09.359
amused by what's going on and not really phased. quite sardonic in

639
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:10.619
this one, isn't he?

640
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:12.539
And almost flirtatious with Carrie.

641
00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:13.319
There's little moments.

642
00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:14.400
Yes, my dear.

643
00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:18.779
Well, yeah, he tries to be and then she just complains. is

644
00:27:18.779 --> 00:27:19.140
amazing.

645
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:20.220
Funny.

646
00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:22.200
Like, oh, I was even such.

647
00:27:22.259 --> 00:27:24.059
Yes, it's quite a music, don't you think?

648
00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:26.220
No, no, you don't.

649
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:31.440
That's what we were hearing about. bubble wrap going in the spare

650
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:31.680
room.

651
00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:33.539
I thought, hang on, it's not arking space.

652
00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:34.680
What's all that bubble wrap?

653
00:27:35.339 --> 00:27:37.500
The new scheme for this.

654
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:39.119
You're a reason we're on Earth.

655
00:27:39.180 --> 00:27:40.799
It's actually just budget cutting.

656
00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:44.279
The BBC agreed to it because with colour they just couldn't afford

657
00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:46.980
all the extra stuff and a new space set every week.

658
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:52.500
Is what's happening that they've been somewhat surprised to get an

659
00:27:52.500 --> 00:27:53.220
extra season.

660
00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:54.660
They're in colour.

661
00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:57.900
But seeing this as the last season. fully expected that this is

662
00:27:57.900 --> 00:27:58.200
it.

663
00:27:58.259 --> 00:28:01.259
Kind of like the 2005 season, which is maybe why everyone's

664
00:28:01.259 --> 00:28:03.779
putting concerted bidding to really make it work.

665
00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:08.519
Just like 2005 season is so strong to watch again.

666
00:28:08.579 --> 00:28:10.920
Yeah, because they don't know they're a sure thing.

667
00:28:10.980 --> 00:28:11.880
Yeah, yeah.

668
00:28:11.940 --> 00:28:15.660
Just this week, I watched documentary on Stan Lee, the comics

669
00:28:15.660 --> 00:28:20.099
creator and he was talking about his early work in the industry

670
00:28:20.099 --> 00:28:23.400
and how it became so hamstrung because with McCarthyism and

671
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:26.640
chasing comic books and saying they corrupted juveniles and what

672
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:27.000
have you.

673
00:28:27.059 --> 00:28:30.059
Pretty much he had to lay off his whole comics department.

674
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:32.339
He was the only one working on them.

675
00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:34.680
And he said to his wife, I'm going to get out.

676
00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:35.880
And his wife said, don't be stupid.

677
00:28:35.940 --> 00:28:36.779
You love doing this.

678
00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:41.039
But if you're gonna get out, do one comic. the way you want to do

679
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:41.220
it.

680
00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:45.240
And, okay, if they fire you, who cares you're going to get out?

681
00:28:45.299 --> 00:28:46.920
And that comic was the fantastic four.

682
00:28:46.980 --> 00:28:48.299
Oh, yeah.

683
00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:49.859
That's how the fantastic talk about.

684
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:52.079
And that's how this Doctor Who is coming about because they think

685
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:53.400
they're going to be cancelled anyway.

686
00:28:53.460 --> 00:28:59.099
Let's just go for broke, make it this gritty adult scary show.

687
00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:02.759
We'll see a lot of that in the next story. the one after that.

688
00:29:02.819 --> 00:29:05.759
Yeah, and much like the Fantastic Four, it paid off.

689
00:29:05.819 --> 00:29:06.599
Yeah.

690
00:29:06.660 --> 00:29:09.240
I mean, they do have to substantially retool it when they come

691
00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:11.160
back in the following year, spoiler alert.

692
00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:14.220
It isn't the direction the show will take from now on.

693
00:29:14.279 --> 00:29:16.559
It is a kind of a blind alley.

694
00:29:16.619 --> 00:29:20.819
The received wisdom for a long time was that the Pertoy era was

695
00:29:20.819 --> 00:29:23.640
okay, but season 7 was great.

696
00:29:23.700 --> 00:29:32.339
But having recently watched season 7 in context, the whole time I

697
00:29:32.339 --> 00:29:36.240
was disappointed about the show that they threw under the bus, you

698
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:42.059
know, and this doesn't have all of the things that I loved about

699
00:29:42.059 --> 00:29:43.140
Doctor Who in it.

700
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:46.079
And I think that's a great shame.

701
00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:50.220
See, I adore season 7 and I do think that what was happening in

702
00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:52.259
the 60s was starting to become a bit stale.

703
00:29:52.259 --> 00:29:54.180
I think it did need a massive shakeup.

704
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:56.099
Not exactly tires up, just stale.

705
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:57.660
It didn't make me tired.

706
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:02.099
It just made me go, oh, it's this again.

707
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:03.180
Oh, that's nice.

708
00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:06.240
But you've got to feel that way by the end of season seven, don't

709
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:06.359
you?

710
00:30:06.420 --> 00:30:07.200
You would say, oh.

711
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:10.559
Oddly not, but I think I think I'll discuss that more when we get

712
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:11.220
to the internal.

713
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:13.319
Yeah, the moment for the logicians.

714
00:30:13.380 --> 00:30:16.619
We are assuming that everybody knows this story, but I mean, really

715
00:30:16.619 --> 00:30:19.019
if you're listening to the podcast, you've got to know this story

716
00:30:19.019 --> 00:30:20.400
because it's just been around.

717
00:30:20.460 --> 00:30:24.299
It's had more iterations on more kinds of medium than anything

718
00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:29.339
else we've seen, not just the book, the audio read novelisation.

719
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:31.380
We had it on video.

720
00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:33.779
It's the only one we've now got on Blu-ray officially and

721
00:30:33.779 --> 00:30:34.259
properly.

722
00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:37.859
The one bit that really annoys me, can I just have a little

723
00:30:37.859 --> 00:30:39.420
nerdism in my head here?

724
00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:42.960
Why do they put the real people in Madame Tussords?

725
00:30:43.019 --> 00:30:43.440
Why?

726
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:46.079
It's just so stupid, so it can easily be discovered if something

727
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:48.059
happens to the auton facsimile.

728
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:49.140
Why put them on display?

729
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:51.359
Apparently there isn't deleted scene.

730
00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:52.799
Scripted below.

731
00:30:52.859 --> 00:30:56.460
They explain that much like Zygons, they need to keep the original

732
00:30:56.460 --> 00:30:58.079
patent alive.

733
00:30:58.140 --> 00:30:59.400
So you put them up on big display.

734
00:30:59.579 --> 00:31:02.279
What's in the script and it was filmed?

735
00:31:02.339 --> 00:31:06.000
I wish we'd got it on the Blu-ray, but it just just doesn't exist

736
00:31:06.059 --> 00:31:10.500
is that the Scobi-Fox facsimile is having to risk detection.

737
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:13.680
So the original is kept alive to mask the signal, but it has to be

738
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:14.400
nearby.

739
00:31:14.759 --> 00:31:18.119
And for some reason, it was easier to have it.

740
00:31:18.180 --> 00:31:20.880
It has to be very close to the, oh, look, it doesn't make sense

741
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:21.900
when I say it out loud.

742
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:23.579
I don't know, there's probably why they cut it.

743
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:25.740
But yeah, it is Doctor Who.

744
00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:27.359
I mean, that's a really mass.

745
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:28.920
And it's just over that shock.

746
00:31:28.980 --> 00:31:30.599
It is actually Madame Tussault, I think.

747
00:31:30.660 --> 00:31:31.200
Yes, yeah, yeah.

748
00:31:31.259 --> 00:31:35.460
I thought, no, it just looks like a really weak BBC curtain on a

749
00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:36.539
rep rehearsal stage.

750
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:40.259
It is, and they're filming it at one in the morning, and all those

751
00:31:40.259 --> 00:31:42.000
extras are really patient, aren't they?

752
00:31:42.059 --> 00:31:43.019
Yeah, sitting around.

753
00:31:43.140 --> 00:31:47.039
I will say, though, that when you're writing science fiction and

754
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:51.119
you come up with a great idea or a great image such as replacing a

755
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:54.480
bunch of people with dummies and putting the real people in the

756
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:57.539
place of the dummies, it can be so hard to dislodge in your brain

757
00:31:57.539 --> 00:31:59.400
that when you think to yourself, oh, I don't actually have a

758
00:31:59.400 --> 00:31:59.819
reason for that.

759
00:31:59.940 --> 00:32:00.480
Oh, who cares?

760
00:32:00.539 --> 00:32:00.960
It's cool.

761
00:32:01.019 --> 00:32:03.240
And Doctor Who is very much like that.

762
00:32:03.299 --> 00:32:06.119
I mean, the set pieces and visual things and all of that sort of

763
00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:06.359
thing.

764
00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:10.380
It's a little bit like, you know, the way that James Bond films

765
00:32:10.380 --> 00:32:13.619
have, you know, giant action set pieces and then paper thin

766
00:32:13.619 --> 00:32:16.920
reasons for them to actually exist and then this time.

767
00:32:16.980 --> 00:32:18.240
It's pretty much...

768
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:20.880
That's the reason behind every script that Eric Saywood ever

769
00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:21.119
wrote.

770
00:32:21.180 --> 00:32:22.559
And you want set pieces.

771
00:32:22.619 --> 00:32:23.640
It's a TV show.

772
00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:25.019
You know, you want something memorable.

773
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:27.779
You want something to act out in the playground the next day.

774
00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:29.940
And this one is absolutely full of it.

775
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.880
I mean, you talk about the Sorry.

776
00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:34.019
That's my Altonga.

777
00:32:34.619 --> 00:32:39.059
You talk, Richard, about how many iterations of this there have

778
00:32:39.059 --> 00:32:41.759
been, but every single relaunch of the shows.

779
00:32:41.819 --> 00:32:46.319
Yes, it was cancelled has borrowed massively heavily from this.

780
00:32:46.380 --> 00:32:51.599
So the TV movie lifts Paul McGann taking the costume out of the

781
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:53.220
lockers of the hospital.

782
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:55.680
All of that stuff in the hospital.

783
00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:59.700
You know, Rose has the autons and...

784
00:32:59.700 --> 00:33:01.200
There was nothing else they could have used.

785
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:02.880
In in rows as well.

786
00:33:02.940 --> 00:33:06.119
They're actually able to afford the scene that everyone imagined

787
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:09.599
had happened, but didn't really, which was the autons breaking the

788
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:11.160
way through the shop with those.

789
00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:14.579
In fact, all that you get is, you know, cutting away from the shop

790
00:33:14.579 --> 00:33:18.720
windows to the BBC sound effect record of glass breaking and then

791
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:21.000
they're walking through because they can't afford to break any

792
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:21.720
windows.

793
00:33:21.779 --> 00:33:22.740
Still works.

794
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:26.039
And it's, 0 yeah, no, it works terrifically well and was clearly

795
00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:27.839
in the minds of just generations.

796
00:33:27.900 --> 00:33:30.119
You think that's why BBC Wales did it just so they could show

797
00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:31.019
glass broken?

798
00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:32.460
So we can afford this.

799
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:36.359
But do you remember, you remember, in fact, if you read the script

800
00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:40.440
book, the script of Rose was published along with the scripts of

801
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:45.299
all of series one, and Russell wants the autons to be terribly

802
00:33:45.299 --> 00:33:49.079
elegant and well dressed because they're wearing great clothes, so

803
00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:51.180
he wants them to move very elegantly.

804
00:33:51.180 --> 00:33:55.500
And I remember, I remember too, that when we were 1st getting kind

805
00:33:55.500 --> 00:34:01.019
of spoilers and stuff to series one, there was a hint that one of

806
00:34:01.019 --> 00:34:05.640
the crucial auton battles would happen out the front of a bridal

807
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:06.119
shop.

808
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.260
And I remember thinking, oh, please, please let there be autons in

809
00:34:10.260 --> 00:34:11.340
bridal gowns.

810
00:34:11.340 --> 00:34:12.780
And of course, there were.

811
00:34:12.900 --> 00:34:18.059
And but then the subsequent relaunch under Moffatt too, in the

812
00:34:18.059 --> 00:34:20.880
11th hour, again, borrows hugely heavily.

813
00:34:20.940 --> 00:34:24.599
We have the doctor in a hospital going through the lockers, you

814
00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:26.519
know, getting his costume together.

815
00:34:26.579 --> 00:34:30.659
You know, this is something that has been the template for

816
00:34:30.659 --> 00:34:32.219
starting the new show.

817
00:34:32.340 --> 00:34:34.139
And that's wrong.

818
00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:36.420
Thanks for mentioning that because the big chase that you get in

819
00:34:36.420 --> 00:34:38.579
11th power is very much the chase.

820
00:34:38.579 --> 00:34:42.179
Okay, they get a fire engine rather than a wheelchair, but it's

821
00:34:42.179 --> 00:34:43.019
very much the same feeling.

822
00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:47.519
Yeah, so it is, it's like a regeneration story or a launching your

823
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:50.400
show again story and that's very much what's happening here.

824
00:34:50.460 --> 00:34:54.360
And in fact, the one big relaunch of the show that borrows heavily

825
00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:58.079
from this is, of course, the following year's terror of the autons

826
00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:01.260
which is just as much a relaunch of Doctor Who's this is.

827
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:05.039
So this is a very, very important story, I think, for the history

828
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:05.699
of the program.

829
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:09.239
You should just mention how well it did, the US bought the rest of

830
00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:12.059
season 789 as a job lot.

831
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:15.119
And, of course, in Australia, Hong Kong and Dubai, so, you know

832
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:16.380
bought all the 14 stories.

833
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:20.280
The Americans weren't offered spearhead from space.

834
00:35:20.340 --> 00:35:21.000
They didn't get it.

835
00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:24.360
So if we had, you know, if anyone's listening, who grew up in the

836
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:26.699
US, you've got every right to go, huh?

837
00:35:26.820 --> 00:35:31.139
So, yeah, it's like, why would they not have done that?

838
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:34.679
Surely if it's just film, if it's filmed, like the Avengers and

839
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:38.880
all the other ITC shows, they were deliberately done on films, so

840
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:43.380
they could be easily transferred to NTSC rather than doing it on

841
00:35:43.380 --> 00:35:44.880
Powell and then transferring it.

842
00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:47.579
I believe that America and Canada were the only other countries

843
00:35:47.579 --> 00:35:49.800
who got pertly in colour initially.

844
00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:53.639
Australia still got 16 millimetre black and white film.

845
00:35:53.699 --> 00:35:54.179
Oh, we still got more.

846
00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:54.599
Mon Chrome.

847
00:35:54.659 --> 00:35:54.840
Okay.

848
00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:55.380
Yeah, yeah.

849
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:57.480
We had an odd way of showing it back then too.

850
00:35:57.539 --> 00:35:58.920
It was really delayed and choppy.

851
00:35:58.980 --> 00:36:01.860
The 16 millimetre film things.

852
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:05.760
In some cases, the only thing that survived.

853
00:36:05.820 --> 00:36:06.300
Isn't that right?

854
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:09.840
There are no missing episodes from the Pertoy era, but there were

855
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:13.619
plenty, including in this season that needed to be recolorized

856
00:36:13.619 --> 00:36:18.480
because the only existing copies of them were the 16 millimetre

857
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:19.139
prints.

858
00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:22.019
And so that was one of the reasons why these things weren't

859
00:36:22.019 --> 00:36:22.320
shown.

860
00:36:22.380 --> 00:36:25.679
The whole episodes of the Silurians don't exist in their own.

861
00:36:25.739 --> 00:36:26.639
And ambassadors are death.

862
00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:29.099
Technically, earning this episode one is colour.

863
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:30.360
Everything else was monochrome.

864
00:36:30.420 --> 00:36:31.079
Yeah, yeah.

865
00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:32.639
Next season even.

866
00:36:32.699 --> 00:36:35.820
And as late as, as per to his last season, of course, episode one

867
00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:37.320
invasion of the dinosaurs.

868
00:36:37.380 --> 00:36:39.900
So they only existed in black and white.

869
00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:44.579
So we are so old of seeing a reconstructed...

870
00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:45.179
Yeah, aren't we?

871
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:46.380
It's a repond.

872
00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:46.800
Yeah.

873
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:51.119
I don't really want to move leave this story. just so cool.

874
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:54.599
If you haven't seen it, this is the one to watch.

875
00:36:54.659 --> 00:36:55.260
Yeah.

876
00:36:55.260 --> 00:36:59.340
I mean, this constantly is on lists when you when you go on

877
00:36:59.340 --> 00:37:02.699
Facebook or forums or Twitter and someone says, I'm introducing a

878
00:37:02.699 --> 00:37:04.260
friend to classic doctor, what should I watch?

879
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.739
90% of people say show them spearhead from space.

880
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:11.099
Other mad people say show them caves of Andrazani, which is a

881
00:37:11.099 --> 00:37:11.340
silly idea.

882
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:13.739
Well, it's a great episode of Lake 7.

883
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:14.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

884
00:37:14.460 --> 00:37:16.079
But no, spearhead from spaceship.

885
00:37:16.139 --> 00:37:19.079
If you're listening and you want to introduce a friend to classic

886
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:21.780
doctor, show them spearhead and then get them to listen to this

887
00:37:21.780 --> 00:37:22.440
podcast.

888
00:37:28.619 --> 00:37:34.739
So moving on to Doctor Who and the Silurians with that wonderful

889
00:37:34.739 --> 00:37:38.099
score from Kerri Blyton, Kazoos.

890
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:39.300
It is so weird.

891
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:42.119
We're still with Kenny Everett and Captain Crewman, aren't we?

892
00:37:42.179 --> 00:37:43.440
That's great.

893
00:37:43.500 --> 00:37:46.619
So you didn't you did make a mistake just now.

894
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:48.780
It is Doctor Who and the side.

895
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:49.679
I just said that.

896
00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:51.300
Oh, good. okay I thought you said the sign.

897
00:37:51.780 --> 00:37:55.500
No, no. okay. we should just talk about the title as if it's a

898
00:37:55.500 --> 00:37:56.460
French symposium.

899
00:37:57.059 --> 00:38:02.340
So it was called the Silurians and they used to call the things

900
00:38:02.340 --> 00:38:03.539
Doctor Who and the Miler.

901
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:05.760
Oh, okay monsters in one of the...

902
00:38:05.820 --> 00:38:06.780
No, no, that's what the...

903
00:38:06.780 --> 00:38:08.940
No, the novel, but it just calls the monsters.

904
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:12.420
Yeah It was frequently called the monsters in the...

905
00:38:12.420 --> 00:38:15.840
The format, poor Doctor Who script, to that point, was to call

906
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:17.099
them Doctor Who and.

907
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:21.420
So, um, Apple Hook's previous co-writing with Terrence Dix, or

908
00:38:21.420 --> 00:38:22.860
Doctor Who and the War Games.

909
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:27.599
This was director Tim Coon's 1st job on Doctor Who.

910
00:38:27.659 --> 00:38:31.320
And he didn't realise you were meant to cut off the prefix.

911
00:38:31.380 --> 00:38:33.539
So that's why it's...

912
00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:35.159
That's why it's like that.

913
00:38:35.219 --> 00:38:38.760
And of course, this was Barry Lett's 1st full story of producery

914
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:41.460
had a lot going on because, you know, he didn't want to make 7

915
00:38:41.460 --> 00:38:42.119
parters.

916
00:38:42.179 --> 00:38:44.340
Ambassadors of death was in terrible trouble.

917
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:49.739
Inferno still needed extra elements added to its 7 episodes.

918
00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:52.320
So it just slipped between the cracks.

919
00:38:52.380 --> 00:38:55.920
You know, the titles were ordered and of course titles were laid

920
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:57.179
on as they were recording.

921
00:38:57.300 --> 00:39:00.719
So by the time anyone saw it, it was like, okay, do we really want

922
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:04.800
to spend £100 to do this edit to make new titles?

923
00:39:04.860 --> 00:39:05.760
It's like, ugh.

924
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:09.239
Let it go, let it go.

925
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:12.960
So yeah, nothing more, nothing more sinister than that.

926
00:39:13.019 --> 00:39:14.699
But yeah, it's a wonderful title.

927
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:16.860
Doctor Who, Doctor Who, and the Solarians.

928
00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:18.599
So is this mine?

929
00:39:18.659 --> 00:39:18.900
yours.

930
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:19.679
This is mine.

931
00:39:19.739 --> 00:39:21.719
I am going to talk my life.

932
00:39:21.780 --> 00:39:22.260
Yes, I know.

933
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:24.059
Can we talk about the other aspect of the time?

934
00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:26.159
Which is the website.

935
00:39:26.219 --> 00:39:30.119
Yes, of course, because the dinosaurs themselves hadn't hadn't

936
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:31.440
even evolved in the Silurian era.

937
00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:32.400
I believe is correct.

938
00:39:32.460 --> 00:39:35.099
It's 4430000 years ago.

939
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:36.480
Oh, what's that between?

940
00:39:38.699 --> 00:39:40.260
Whereas...

941
00:39:40.260 --> 00:39:44.400
There were only plants and arthropods on land and there were no

942
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:46.559
reptiles or apes or dinosaurs of any kind.

943
00:39:46.619 --> 00:39:48.659
I mean it is 100s of 1000000s of years.

944
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:53.219
And the production team, I think, were aware of this, but they

945
00:39:53.219 --> 00:39:54.360
just thought it's a cool name.

946
00:39:54.420 --> 00:39:58.199
Kind of like being a child in the early 1970s with the shops only

947
00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:00.360
open till 12 PM on a Saturday.

948
00:40:00.420 --> 00:40:01.679
That was it.

949
00:40:01.739 --> 00:40:04.860
It was actually very slowly rean era.

950
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:05.460
Yes, yeah, yeah.

951
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:07.260
They like this idea in era.

952
00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:10.440
So, you know, it is a pretty cool name, I suppose.

953
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:15.360
And nerdy children like us, yeah.

954
00:40:15.420 --> 00:40:16.559
They get it, right?

955
00:40:16.619 --> 00:40:18.420
It seems too hard to say.

956
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:19.559
And it's wrong anyway.

957
00:40:19.619 --> 00:40:20.400
It doesn't work either.

958
00:40:20.460 --> 00:40:22.800
I don't know.

959
00:40:22.860 --> 00:40:25.199
So it's a giant mistake as well.

960
00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:27.599
Yeah, you see, I think the original mistake is a bit more

961
00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:31.320
forgivable because the person who calls them Silurians is a

962
00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:35.099
nuclear physicist who is an amateur potholer, an archeologist.

963
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:36.300
So clearly he's just an idiot.

964
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:38.639
Well, it's just not his thing.

965
00:40:38.699 --> 00:40:41.820
Yeah, I'm a Latin teacher and I can crack an encyclopedia, I

966
00:40:41.820 --> 00:40:42.420
forgot to say.

967
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:44.639
No, I mean, it's not that hard.

968
00:40:44.699 --> 00:40:47.280
Now, is this a Barry Litt story?

969
00:40:47.340 --> 00:40:48.780
Speaking of people who should have known better?

970
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:49.019
Yes.

971
00:40:49.019 --> 00:40:56.099
So this was Barry's producer, but he didn't, he didn't commission

972
00:40:56.099 --> 00:40:56.519
it.

973
00:40:56.579 --> 00:40:57.119
I don't think.

974
00:40:57.239 --> 00:40:58.739
I think it was commissioned by Derek Sherwood.

975
00:40:58.800 --> 00:40:59.639
Was he working on it?

976
00:40:59.699 --> 00:41:02.519
Because Sher was working on special project here, wasn't he?

977
00:41:02.579 --> 00:41:03.840
With Dr. Martin King.

978
00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:06.900
From the, you know, the long forgotten, was it John Rollison?

979
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:07.980
Yeah, John the Avengers.

980
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:11.699
Who was Harold Chawney in Web of Fear, which who we've all had the

981
00:41:11.699 --> 00:41:12.659
fortune to see now?

982
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:14.880
as the irritating reporter.

983
00:41:14.940 --> 00:41:17.159
Because you can see, you wonder why that didn't get off the ground

984
00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:17.579
can't you?

985
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:21.480
But no, it would have been a fantastic Cord of RAF fabulous show

986
00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:26.639
about really lavish overseas production to rival the persuaders on

987
00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:31.019
the other network with Tony Curtis and Roger Moore, you know, being

988
00:41:31.019 --> 00:41:33.840
all terribly rap and fabulous and everyone had a moustache.

989
00:41:34.019 --> 00:41:36.360
We'll get to that later in the season.

990
00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:36.960
Yeah.

991
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:41.820
So this is the 1st 7 part story since the evil of the Dalek.

992
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:43.320
Gosh, it is too.

993
00:41:43.380 --> 00:41:46.679
And so it's also the 3rd longest story since then.

994
00:41:46.739 --> 00:41:49.440
We had the invasion, which was longer, but that had the sidemen

995
00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:52.139
and we had the war games, which was longer out of necessity.

996
00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:57.960
So we have the 1st example of these 7 episode stories, which was a

997
00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:01.019
decision made by Derek Sherwin, which Barry Letts hated but had to

998
00:42:01.019 --> 00:42:01.320
live with.

999
00:42:01.380 --> 00:42:03.239
Is it a budget tree decision?

1000
00:42:03.300 --> 00:42:04.380
ED's about a tree decision.

1001
00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:07.440
It's cheaper to do longer stories because you can use the sentence

1002
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:07.920
for longer.

1003
00:42:07.980 --> 00:42:10.679
Episode one is always very expensive.

1004
00:42:10.739 --> 00:42:11.519
Yeah, exactly.

1005
00:42:11.579 --> 00:42:13.559
Let's not forget, though, for a second.

1006
00:42:13.619 --> 00:42:18.900
Just how much outside broadcast filming was actually allocated for

1007
00:42:18.900 --> 00:42:19.559
Spearhead.

1008
00:42:19.619 --> 00:42:21.360
All their shops.

1009
00:42:21.420 --> 00:42:23.039
I mean, yeah, there wasn't really.

1010
00:42:23.099 --> 00:42:26.340
I just think maybe, you know, it was used as a bit of an excuse.

1011
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:29.639
I think they wanted a big bang at the beginning of the season and

1012
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:31.559
they, yeah, they used up all their money.

1013
00:42:31.619 --> 00:42:33.719
And it's, oh, look what happened, all that naughty strike.

1014
00:42:33.780 --> 00:42:35.400
I think they were really glad for the strike.

1015
00:42:35.460 --> 00:42:38.820
It allowed them to actually get all of this across.

1016
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:42.239
Hugely breaks free from the studio look of the 60s.

1017
00:42:42.300 --> 00:42:44.519
And so it does, it's even more than colour.

1018
00:42:44.579 --> 00:42:47.820
That's a really good point. look amazingly different.

1019
00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:50.880
Because I just wanted to you bring up your next point, Brendan.

1020
00:42:50.940 --> 00:42:53.579
Did anyone here feel a little bit, you know, lachrymosal bored

1021
00:42:53.579 --> 00:42:54.599
with the 7 partters?

1022
00:42:54.659 --> 00:42:55.920
Because I didn't.

1023
00:42:55.980 --> 00:42:57.179
The weird thing is no.

1024
00:42:57.239 --> 00:42:57.719
No.

1025
00:42:57.780 --> 00:43:01.920
They've got this amazing quality whereby instead of having one

1026
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:02.940
overarching plot.

1027
00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:04.619
They had several overlapping plots.

1028
00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:06.599
So for each of the 7 parties this season, I've written down the

1029
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:07.619
overlapping.

1030
00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:10.619
For sure and actually writes in that interview, I was quoting the

1031
00:43:10.619 --> 00:43:12.659
other week, they were deliberately trying to make every single

1032
00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:16.320
episode within each story, let alone each story, subsequent

1033
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:18.239
utterly different from the one you'd watched the week before.

1034
00:43:18.300 --> 00:43:22.739
So you might get a repetition of the plot at episode 3 again in

1035
00:43:22.739 --> 00:43:25.380
episode five, but it'll be in a different location.

1036
00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:29.460
They were really trying to spin it as play of the week looking as

1037
00:43:29.460 --> 00:43:32.460
different as they can within the module of being the same story.

1038
00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:35.639
Yeah, so in this story, it starts off as being about a mysterious

1039
00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:36.420
power drain.

1040
00:43:36.539 --> 00:43:40.440
And yeah, because Britain was having those terrible power strikes

1041
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:40.860
at the time.

1042
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:44.280
And you get all these theories that, you know, it's saboteurs from

1043
00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:48.300
the other side, you know, that mysterious...

1044
00:43:48.360 --> 00:43:51.539
Molly Sutton was suffering from it exactly the same time. are you

1045
00:43:51.539 --> 00:43:52.199
being served, yeah.

1046
00:43:52.260 --> 00:43:55.260
Now, the power drain is then explained, but not soft, because it's

1047
00:43:55.260 --> 00:43:56.039
monsters behind it.

1048
00:43:56.099 --> 00:43:58.079
And that's the 2nd plot, this plot about the monsters.

1049
00:43:58.199 --> 00:43:59.219
Commies.

1050
00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:00.420
Yes, indeed.

1051
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:03.900
You know, they're insidious. don't think so.

1052
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:05.940
The monster...

1053
00:44:05.940 --> 00:44:07.019
The monster.

1054
00:44:07.139 --> 00:44:08.519
They're tiresome.

1055
00:44:09.659 --> 00:44:10.619
What are you doing about?

1056
00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:11.760
Still talking.

1057
00:44:13.380 --> 00:44:18.539
So the monster's plot is almost solved because the leader of the

1058
00:44:18.539 --> 00:44:20.880
monster says, yes, we will work in peace with mankind, but then

1059
00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:24.539
they unleash a virus, but then the virus doesn't work, so they go

1060
00:44:24.539 --> 00:44:25.860
for a full-blown invasion.

1061
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:29.460
And so what happens is as each of these plots is partially

1062
00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:33.840
resolved or at least explained, it opens up the next plot.

1063
00:44:33.900 --> 00:44:37.019
And I think that's why this story isn't Tyson because it's not

1064
00:44:37.019 --> 00:44:37.800
just about one thing.

1065
00:44:37.860 --> 00:44:41.159
It's the same as the war games. wasn't just about one plot

1066
00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:41.639
happening.

1067
00:44:41.699 --> 00:44:43.199
Things overlap.

1068
00:44:43.260 --> 00:44:45.840
As they do in real life and in real war.

1069
00:44:45.900 --> 00:44:46.500
Absolutely.

1070
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:49.860
I think that the Siurians of the 7 parters in the season is the

1071
00:44:49.860 --> 00:44:54.179
most successful one and you have identified precisely why, that it

1072
00:44:54.179 --> 00:44:55.619
does move along.

1073
00:44:55.739 --> 00:44:56.699
It goes from place to place.

1074
00:44:56.699 --> 00:44:59.760
And I think neither of the 2 that we're going to discuss next

1075
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:01.739
episode do that quite so successfully.

1076
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:03.780
I just...

1077
00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:05.159
But it's all right.

1078
00:45:05.219 --> 00:45:06.659
You've been wrong before.

1079
00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:10.079
Um, so...

1080
00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:14.880
Oh, it's just like the production too, man.

1081
00:45:15.059 --> 00:45:17.099
Real life, isn't it?

1082
00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:19.800
We all know the colourful monsters is green, Nathan.

1083
00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:23.880
But it wouldn't be doctor if things ran smoothly, would it?

1084
00:45:23.940 --> 00:45:27.420
And it often leads to really great things happening.

1085
00:45:27.539 --> 00:45:29.760
Recently, perhaps not.

1086
00:45:29.820 --> 00:45:31.139
But yeah, I really like Dr. Quinn.

1087
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:33.599
I kept expecting Jane Seymour, though.

1088
00:45:33.659 --> 00:45:34.980
That's not the Dr. Queen.

1089
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:36.059
I thought, oh, not her.

1090
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:40.920
And that French and Saunders line, when Jen Saunders says, I just

1091
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:44.940
asked myself, you know, what would JC will do in this difficult

1092
00:45:44.940 --> 00:45:45.840
situation?

1093
00:45:45.900 --> 00:45:48.480
Yes, I don't think she would have kept it.

1094
00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:51.059
No way.

1095
00:45:51.179 --> 00:45:52.019
What would she have done?

1096
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:54.960
plastic surgery and just had a drink.

1097
00:45:55.019 --> 00:45:58.619
Okay, is just always wonderful because he has that wonderful look

1098
00:45:58.619 --> 00:46:02.579
about him where he looks all sweet and affable, but he's he can

1099
00:46:02.579 --> 00:46:05.039
actually play nasty, really, really well.

1100
00:46:05.099 --> 00:46:06.420
You know why he got the role, don't you?

1101
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:10.380
Well, you know, he was after Ron Moody and Bertus, he was up for

1102
00:46:10.380 --> 00:46:12.420
the role of wearing the big cake.

1103
00:46:12.539 --> 00:46:14.880
I think we did know that. as the 3rd doctor.

1104
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:15.840
The 3rd doctor.

1105
00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:17.159
He was up for the 3rd doctor.

1106
00:46:17.219 --> 00:46:18.480
He was in the top 5 choices.

1107
00:46:18.539 --> 00:46:21.239
Yeah, it's a lovely moment on the making of where Carol and John

1108
00:46:21.239 --> 00:46:23.820
talks about working with Hawton McKay and she says, oh, God, you

1109
00:46:23.820 --> 00:46:25.079
know, he was so naughty.

1110
00:46:25.139 --> 00:46:27.960
He would say, Carolyn, if you stand on this side of me, I think

1111
00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:28.440
that'd be best.

1112
00:46:28.500 --> 00:46:30.719
And John, if you stand, he just wanted to be in the middle.

1113
00:46:30.780 --> 00:46:32.280
Easy every single shot.

1114
00:46:32.340 --> 00:46:35.280
But we really knew what was going on and you can watch it on that

1115
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:38.400
level and just see, sure, the doctors look very agitated in the

1116
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:39.119
scene, isn't he?

1117
00:46:39.179 --> 00:46:43.679
Well, that scene when he goes to the cottage, it confronts Dr

1118
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:46.199
Quinn is rather like...

1119
00:46:46.260 --> 00:46:46.500
Yes.

1120
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:47.340
Yeah, yeah.

1121
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:50.699
It's rather like that scene where he confronts Channing, where, you

1122
00:46:50.699 --> 00:46:53.280
know, he's all affable, but there is just this simmering

1123
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:55.860
resentment between the...

1124
00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:56.639
I got your scene.

1125
00:46:58.139 --> 00:47:02.940
The doctor being aware that he's irritating people and he really

1126
00:47:02.940 --> 00:47:06.659
and the bit, the stupid comedy bit where uh, Mackay thinks he's

1127
00:47:06.659 --> 00:47:08.340
gone where Dr. Quinn thinks he's gone.

1128
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:12.539
He just looks in through the window and it smirks and then sort of

1129
00:47:12.539 --> 00:47:13.199
wanders off.

1130
00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:15.900
He's sort of fabulously irritating in this.

1131
00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:17.400
See, that's the thing.

1132
00:47:17.460 --> 00:47:19.920
I think we're getting a much better idea of Pertwee's character

1133
00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:23.760
here because he is being deliberately irritating to Dr. Quinn, Dr

1134
00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:24.239
Lawrence.

1135
00:47:24.300 --> 00:47:28.260
But in the case of Miss Dawson, he tries to be very sympathetic

1136
00:47:28.260 --> 00:47:32.940
with her, yes, to find out what she knows, but also because he

1137
00:47:32.940 --> 00:47:36.780
recognises that she is actually a very strong character and it

1138
00:47:36.780 --> 00:47:42.900
takes a very strong person to try to maintain a secret trust, even

1139
00:47:42.900 --> 00:47:47.760
though the right thing to do would be to break it, but she has Dr

1140
00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:48.539
Quinn's trust.

1141
00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:49.679
And...

1142
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:50.820
I really like her character.

1143
00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:53.280
And if we look at the novelisation, it was Matt Hook's.

1144
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:54.179
Oh, it's amazing.

1145
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:56.820
It was Matt Hawke's intention that she was actually in love with

1146
00:47:56.820 --> 00:48:00.659
Dr. Quinn, but it was completely unrequited and she is such a...

1147
00:48:00.659 --> 00:48:03.539
On paper, you know, you would go, oh, that is a very weak

1148
00:48:03.539 --> 00:48:06.239
character, a woman with unrequited love for a man, but actually

1149
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:08.039
she is an incredibly strong character.

1150
00:48:08.099 --> 00:48:08.820
She's wonderful.

1151
00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:11.820
The way that Hulk does this too.

1152
00:48:11.880 --> 00:48:14.639
And it's something that he does in all of his novels is he gives a

1153
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:16.199
much more background to the characters.

1154
00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:19.619
You get the impression sometimes with Terrence that he's just

1155
00:48:19.619 --> 00:48:22.800
taking the script and the sticking he said and she said into it.

1156
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:24.179
Then look, I've got a lovely novel.

1157
00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:26.699
He did have to write like 3000 a year.

1158
00:48:26.760 --> 00:48:27.960
Yeah, no, that is true.

1159
00:48:28.019 --> 00:48:30.119
But Hulk.

1160
00:48:30.179 --> 00:48:34.260
There's a whole chapter that really corresponds to nothing at all

1161
00:48:34.260 --> 00:48:37.980
that we see on screen where she's unmarried.

1162
00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:40.139
She's probably looked after a sick mother or something I can't

1163
00:48:40.139 --> 00:48:40.440
remember.

1164
00:48:40.500 --> 00:48:43.559
And she's kind of passed the point where she's going to get

1165
00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:43.920
married.

1166
00:48:43.980 --> 00:48:46.440
She likes Dr. Quinn.

1167
00:48:46.500 --> 00:48:48.239
It's a sort of older kind of world.

1168
00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:51.539
It's very clearly the 70s and so conventions are a bit different

1169
00:48:51.539 --> 00:48:54.900
but he goes over, she goes over to his place, I think, for Sunday

1170
00:48:54.900 --> 00:48:59.039
lunch, you know, regularly and they bond and then they talk about

1171
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:02.159
his discovery of the silurins and what his ambitions and things

1172
00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:02.519
are.

1173
00:49:02.579 --> 00:49:06.599
And it's really lovely and it makes her she doesn't get really the

1174
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:10.079
chance to show that the script doesn't really bring any of that

1175
00:49:10.079 --> 00:49:11.579
stuff out on screen.

1176
00:49:11.639 --> 00:49:13.920
But it's lovely in the novelisation.

1177
00:49:14.039 --> 00:49:16.440
And I'm going to go on and on about the novelisation.

1178
00:49:16.500 --> 00:49:17.760
I think it's extremely good.

1179
00:49:17.820 --> 00:49:23.519
It was the 1st I 1st encountered the this story as the Hulk novel

1180
00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:25.500
and I think it's one of the best of the range.

1181
00:49:25.559 --> 00:49:27.420
It still stands up.

1182
00:49:27.539 --> 00:49:29.880
Oh, and if you haven't read it, you could actually just watch the

1183
00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:33.599
Matt Smith Silurian stories because so much of it is used as

1184
00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:35.400
backstory.

1185
00:49:35.460 --> 00:49:38.039
We should talk about that too at some point because I think that

1186
00:49:38.039 --> 00:49:40.619
the Matt Smith story while it's not great.

1187
00:49:40.679 --> 00:49:44.280
It actually does, and this is kind of great.

1188
00:49:44.340 --> 00:49:45.960
I think this story is kind of great.

1189
00:49:46.019 --> 00:49:48.000
I think the Matt Smith one isn't really that great.

1190
00:49:48.059 --> 00:49:50.519
Buddy's Chibnol's plotting though, isn't it?

1191
00:49:50.579 --> 00:49:55.380
Well, it does some things better than this story does, I think, and

1192
00:49:55.380 --> 00:50:00.059
we'll talk about them. you know, why a bit later, I think.

1193
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:03.420
I mean, what are wonderful things about this story is the way it

1194
00:50:03.420 --> 00:50:07.320
came about, which was when Terence Dix was talking to Malcolm

1195
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:09.119
Hawke about the new premise for the show.

1196
00:50:09.179 --> 00:50:10.320
You know, it's going to be Earthbound.

1197
00:50:10.380 --> 00:50:11.519
It's going to be like Quatumats.

1198
00:50:11.579 --> 00:50:14.579
Malcolm Hawke's response was, well, you realise Robin Terrence.

1199
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:16.199
You've got 2 theories now.

1200
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:18.059
You've got mad scientists and alien invasion.

1201
00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:20.280
And Terence said, oh, dear, you're quite right.

1202
00:50:20.340 --> 00:50:23.039
And so Macolt turned around and said, what if the aliens were

1203
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:23.880
always here?

1204
00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:26.159
And that...

1205
00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:29.039
Yeah, which Terrence Dixon spins are saying that he claims he

1206
00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:31.860
simply replied, dinosaur men want their planet back, Mac.

1207
00:50:31.980 --> 00:50:34.559
And it's not, you know, because yeah, because Max said, you know

1208
00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:37.500
this is the same thing you're giving us, you know, all we've got

1209
00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:41.099
is invaders from space or scientists potting around in their lab

1210
00:50:41.099 --> 00:50:46.380
with lots of burgers and petri dishes and we know we've all said

1211
00:50:46.380 --> 00:50:48.599
you said last time, how boring would that have been to have

1212
00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:52.860
watched Pat be doing this season of the doctor as doing that?

1213
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:56.280
Do you think it is dull because of that?

1214
00:50:56.340 --> 00:50:57.719
I will say the story.

1215
00:50:57.780 --> 00:51:00.059
One part of the story that I feel doesn't work very well.

1216
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:01.619
Is that whole business in the lab?

1217
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:07.619
But it does interrupted fabulously by Peter Miles's camp comedy

1218
00:51:07.619 --> 00:51:08.699
breakdown as well.

1219
00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:11.099
Oh, I think that's I think that's absolutely wonderful.

1220
00:51:11.159 --> 00:51:12.000
Terrific.

1221
00:51:12.059 --> 00:51:15.300
Simply because he's such a restrained character all the way

1222
00:51:15.300 --> 00:51:15.900
through.

1223
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:20.760
And really, his power has been eroded. bit by bit by bit.

1224
00:51:20.820 --> 00:51:24.059
Am I to take it who have now arrested my security office?

1225
00:51:24.119 --> 00:51:25.320
He's so funny.

1226
00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:31.019
He's actually my favourite intransigent base commander so far.

1227
00:51:31.079 --> 00:51:32.880
Because he's the most realistic in a way.

1228
00:51:32.940 --> 00:51:36.179
No, no, because he's the most camp and kind of ridiculous, I

1229
00:51:36.179 --> 00:51:36.300
think.

1230
00:51:36.420 --> 00:51:39.119
Well, you see, I think he's quite realistic for the same reason

1231
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:40.500
that I thought Hobson was realistic.

1232
00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:44.400
A scientific based commander does not need to be this dashing

1233
00:51:44.400 --> 00:51:46.260
heroic figure.

1234
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:48.960
Like Peter Barkwer is actually quite dashing.

1235
00:51:49.019 --> 00:51:50.460
Like he's a dashing older man.

1236
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:54.780
And Roland Lee Hunt, has this great shock of white hair.

1237
00:51:54.840 --> 00:51:56.219
He's very visually imposing.

1238
00:51:56.280 --> 00:51:57.480
Peter Miles.

1239
00:51:57.539 --> 00:52:02.340
Is this sort of very skinny, tall, comb over kind of?

1240
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:03.480
He does look like a civil servant.

1241
00:52:03.539 --> 00:52:04.800
Exactly, exactly.

1242
00:52:04.860 --> 00:52:05.400
And he is.

1243
00:52:05.460 --> 00:52:07.860
He is a civil 7 because he's got a government job.

1244
00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:12.480
And, um, yeah, he's very much the chap who, you know, the trains

1245
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:15.179
need to run on time because the trains need to run on time because

1246
00:52:15.179 --> 00:52:16.380
the trains didn't run on time.

1247
00:52:16.380 --> 00:52:18.000
The trains wouldn't run on time.

1248
00:52:18.059 --> 00:52:20.039
The moral duty of the trades.

1249
00:52:20.099 --> 00:52:21.780
Yes, exactly. preventing that, aren't you?

1250
00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:22.619
Don't get me started.

1251
00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:28.559
Yeah, and for that reason, like Peter Miles cites that breakdown

1252
00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:31.019
is one of his favourite scenes he ever did in Doctor Who.

1253
00:52:31.139 --> 00:52:35.519
And he says that part of what made it so good was it took ages to

1254
00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:36.539
put the makeup on.

1255
00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:38.159
And there was word coming up from the studio.

1256
00:52:38.219 --> 00:52:39.420
Like, where's Peter?

1257
00:52:39.480 --> 00:52:40.920
Why is Peter taking so long?

1258
00:52:40.980 --> 00:52:43.380
So he was actually ropable when he came?

1259
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:48.119
When he jumps over the table because it's not just the repression

1260
00:52:48.119 --> 00:52:49.860
of the last 6 episodes getting to him.

1261
00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:52.019
It's the repression of his entire life.

1262
00:52:52.139 --> 00:52:56.340
And that's why where Macolp is so successful because everyone in

1263
00:52:56.340 --> 00:53:00.719
this story is a character, including the monsters.

1264
00:53:00.780 --> 00:53:02.699
Each of the...

1265
00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:04.920
Everyone who has more than 2 lines.

1266
00:53:05.039 --> 00:53:07.619
Look, I think that that's the intention.

1267
00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:10.380
And the reason why I think the monsters would have been a very

1268
00:53:10.380 --> 00:53:14.099
very clever title for it. is, of course, that they're meant to be

1269
00:53:14.099 --> 00:53:14.940
people.

1270
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:19.199
And in the novelisation, you know, they're Morca, Optal, and

1271
00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:19.920
Cato.

1272
00:53:19.980 --> 00:53:24.239
Um, you know, the, I get, I get the, the mixed up, but I think uh

1273
00:53:24.239 --> 00:53:29.699
Morgan is, Morgan is the young Silurian and, uh, and then...

1274
00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:31.380
No, no, no, Optal.

1275
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:31.800
Okay.

1276
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:34.860
Octylsolita, morc is the young one and Cato's the scientist.

1277
00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:35.579
Oh right.

1278
00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:38.820
And so they're clearly intended to be people, which is why it's

1279
00:53:38.820 --> 00:53:42.059
such a bizarre decision to get Peter Halliday to do all of their

1280
00:53:42.059 --> 00:53:42.539
voices.

1281
00:53:42.599 --> 00:53:45.960
So he's doing slightly different funny voices for them.

1282
00:53:46.019 --> 00:53:49.559
And that kind of undermines them being people.

1283
00:53:49.619 --> 00:53:53.039
And again, they're undermined being people by being sort of rubber

1284
00:53:53.039 --> 00:53:56.519
suits with really obvious seams and places for the zippers to go

1285
00:53:56.519 --> 00:53:59.880
and things that are clearly designed to cover the zippers and

1286
00:53:59.880 --> 00:54:01.500
stuff and flaps. and things.

1287
00:54:01.559 --> 00:54:04.860
And, you know, like it's the 70s and this is probably the best we

1288
00:54:04.860 --> 00:54:06.239
can expect from the costume department.

1289
00:54:06.300 --> 00:54:08.099
Do you know what else was going on though?

1290
00:54:08.159 --> 00:54:10.139
It was Christie Lawrence who'd done all with his eyes.

1291
00:54:10.199 --> 00:54:11.940
Apparently, they look really good in rehearsal.

1292
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:16.139
But on location, the cast and crew was staying in a hotel in

1293
00:54:16.139 --> 00:54:19.500
Godalming that they were sharing with a conference for Olivetti

1294
00:54:19.500 --> 00:54:20.400
typewriters.

1295
00:54:20.460 --> 00:54:25.199
And apparently the 2 parties had drinking games to outdrink each

1296
00:54:25.199 --> 00:54:27.900
other every single night of the shoot.

1297
00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:31.260
And they, and the extras were, over salarians were the worst of

1298
00:54:31.260 --> 00:54:31.800
the lot.

1299
00:54:31.860 --> 00:54:34.559
So they just all terribly hung over and didn't get zipped up the

1300
00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:34.920
next day.

1301
00:54:34.980 --> 00:54:38.280
It actually colours Perley's performance quite tellingly.

1302
00:54:38.280 --> 00:54:42.719
He seems talking around and I'm like, where the new series gets

1303
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:46.320
this right and it is partly sort of technically and people whinge

1304
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:49.800
whenever the new series reinvents the look of a monster.

1305
00:54:49.860 --> 00:54:51.239
But here they get it right.

1306
00:54:51.300 --> 00:54:55.079
And I know that there's Silurians in the hungry earth and Madame

1307
00:54:55.079 --> 00:54:56.340
Vastra and things like that.

1308
00:54:56.400 --> 00:54:59.579
People complain, oh, they look like monsters from Voyager, and

1309
00:54:59.579 --> 00:55:02.280
they do look exactly like the aliens from distant origin.

1310
00:55:02.340 --> 00:55:04.079
Which would rip off.

1311
00:55:04.079 --> 00:55:05.699
Which was very...

1312
00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:10.139
But you can, it's like what Pertuy says about the Draconians.

1313
00:55:10.199 --> 00:55:11.460
You can see the human mouth.

1314
00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:15.119
You can see the eyes, the actors get to act, and they get to be

1315
00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:17.039
different people.

1316
00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:20.460
The Hungary Earther even has an old Silurian, a young Silurian, a

1317
00:55:20.460 --> 00:55:21.780
Silurian scientist.

1318
00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:22.500
You know what I mean?

1319
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:27.420
Exactly the same thing, but they're much, much more identifiable

1320
00:55:27.420 --> 00:55:28.860
as people and monsters.

1321
00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:31.980
And I think that, and that if you're going to have a story which

1322
00:55:31.980 --> 00:55:35.340
is, it's about colonialism and it's about immigration.

1323
00:55:35.340 --> 00:55:39.239
I think it's undermined by having them be rubbery lizard head

1324
00:55:39.239 --> 00:55:41.099
people instead of people.

1325
00:55:41.159 --> 00:55:46.019
See, I disagree because when I watch this story, I can very easily

1326
00:55:46.019 --> 00:55:48.840
distinguish which southern is which?

1327
00:55:48.900 --> 00:55:52.920
Yeah, no, one is sort of Peter Halliday doing a high voice, one's

1328
00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:55.500
Peter Halliday doing a middle voice and one's Pete Halliday doing

1329
00:55:55.500 --> 00:55:56.460
it, sort of another voice.

1330
00:55:56.460 --> 00:55:57.480
You can tell my part.

1331
00:55:57.599 --> 00:56:00.360
Yeah, not because of the voices, because of the physicality of the

1332
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:00.659
actors.

1333
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:05.159
The 3 actors do put in very different physical performances.

1334
00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:10.079
And it actually makes them look different to each other on

1335
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:10.440
screen.

1336
00:56:10.500 --> 00:56:12.300
Certainly the voices help.

1337
00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:14.760
And to be honest, before I knew it was Peter Halliday doing all 3

1338
00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:16.079
voices, I didn't know it was one person.

1339
00:56:16.139 --> 00:56:19.679
And I guess the idea of calling them the monsters is, you know, the

1340
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:23.099
big discovery is the rubberheaded guys are actually just people

1341
00:56:23.099 --> 00:56:23.460
you know.

1342
00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:26.280
And so I guess there is some ambiguity there.

1343
00:56:26.340 --> 00:56:30.960
So the whole idea of colonialism is hugely present.

1344
00:56:31.019 --> 00:56:33.239
And one thing that I want to recommend is that people should watch

1345
00:56:33.239 --> 00:56:34.860
the documentary.

1346
00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:37.739
If you have the DVD, there's an hour long documentary on it.

1347
00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:40.800
And I think it's one of the best things that they've ever done.

1348
00:56:40.860 --> 00:56:46.380
It barely mentions Doctor Who at all, but it does talk about kind

1349
00:56:46.380 --> 00:56:51.420
of racial politics and stuff like that at the time and, you know

1350
00:56:51.420 --> 00:56:53.460
Enoch Powell and all of that sort of thing.

1351
00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:55.139
It's really, really terrific.

1352
00:56:55.199 --> 00:56:56.519
The rivers of blood.

1353
00:56:56.519 --> 00:56:57.539
Yeah.

1354
00:56:57.599 --> 00:56:58.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1355
00:56:58.260 --> 00:57:02.159
And so and so it talks about, you know, in a sense, the Saudi are

1356
00:57:02.159 --> 00:57:05.579
sort of colonial overlords who used to oppress the human's

1357
00:57:05.579 --> 00:57:08.219
ancestors and now it's the other way around.

1358
00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:09.119
You know what I mean?

1359
00:57:09.179 --> 00:57:13.619
Or you could say that the Siberians are an indigenous people whose

1360
00:57:13.619 --> 00:57:17.340
land we've taken and now or, you know, the cellurians are

1361
00:57:17.340 --> 00:57:19.980
immigrants and we have to learn to live with them and so on.

1362
00:57:19.980 --> 00:57:24.900
And, you know, all of these things underlie the story and I think

1363
00:57:24.900 --> 00:57:25.920
make it more interesting.

1364
00:57:25.980 --> 00:57:27.239
And it is one of these things.

1365
00:57:27.300 --> 00:57:30.480
Malcolm Hulk is famous for 2 things, I think, in the 70s.

1366
00:57:30.539 --> 00:57:34.139
One is he writes the annual story about giant lizards.

1367
00:57:34.199 --> 00:57:38.039
He writes one story a year for poetry and each story features

1368
00:57:38.039 --> 00:57:39.900
giant lizards of some kind.

1369
00:57:39.960 --> 00:57:43.619
So he's there goes to a giant lizard guy, but he's someone who

1370
00:57:43.619 --> 00:57:47.099
writes about progressive politics and all his stories have a

1371
00:57:47.099 --> 00:57:48.719
political message under them.

1372
00:57:48.780 --> 00:57:52.739
And I think this one is the one that's most interesting in that it

1373
00:57:52.739 --> 00:57:57.179
has so many different kind of things underlying it informing it.

1374
00:57:57.239 --> 00:57:58.380
So many.

1375
00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:00.900
One thing I didn't get to say earlier, we should be really

1376
00:58:00.900 --> 00:58:05.940
grateful that Peter Halliday lent us his prodigious talents.

1377
00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:08.400
Do you know who was actually lined up to do the voices?

1378
00:58:08.460 --> 00:58:10.619
Sheila Grant?

1379
00:58:10.679 --> 00:58:14.280
Yes, she of the voice of the...

1380
00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:16.860
That's what they were going for.

1381
00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:20.639
So it was actually Barry Letts, who said, what the hell?

1382
00:58:20.699 --> 00:58:22.019
Let's get Peter on the phone.

1383
00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:23.579
There's been lots of noises.

1384
00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:27.960
No, no, no.

1385
00:58:28.019 --> 00:58:29.820
No, perfect.

1386
00:58:29.880 --> 00:58:33.179
So Peter Halliday did, um, he, his packer.

1387
00:58:33.239 --> 00:58:35.159
Oh, obviously from the invasion, isn't it?

1388
00:58:35.219 --> 00:58:36.780
But he has some pub wash.

1389
00:58:36.840 --> 00:58:38.219
Really?

1390
00:58:38.280 --> 00:58:39.000
He is.

1391
00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:40.980
But he did lots of voices before.

1392
00:58:40.980 --> 00:58:42.059
He used the prosons.

1393
00:58:42.059 --> 00:58:43.559
Yeah, we can forgive him.

1394
00:58:43.619 --> 00:58:44.099
Yeah, yeah.

1395
00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:45.059
Yeah, he is pretty good.

1396
00:58:45.179 --> 00:58:47.699
And he'll be doing a voice again next door.

1397
00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:48.059
He will.

1398
00:58:48.119 --> 00:58:50.880
Now, we do have a lot of firsts in this story.

1399
00:58:50.940 --> 00:58:55.139
It is, of course, the 1st appearance of Bessie, who Kate Orman's

1400
00:58:55.139 --> 00:58:55.380
theory.

1401
00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:59.280
I think it was Kate Orman's theory, is that the reason that Liz

1402
00:58:59.280 --> 00:59:03.480
reacts the way that she does to that news because the doctor says

1403
00:59:03.480 --> 00:59:08.340
oh, she's called Bassie and Liz just goes, I see, is that she

1404
00:59:08.340 --> 00:59:10.320
realises that the doctor's named the car after her.

1405
00:59:10.380 --> 00:59:12.420
Yeah, yeah, Beth, Elizabeth.

1406
00:59:12.539 --> 00:59:13.679
Yeah, perfectly done.

1407
00:59:13.739 --> 00:59:17.639
She, well, it is built on a Ford popular chazis, isn't it?

1408
00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:22.019
No offence, Dr. Shaw.

1409
00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:23.699
Oh, there's another thing.

1410
00:59:23.760 --> 00:59:25.139
Why is she not called Dr. Shaw?

1411
00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:27.780
She's a bloody scientist with how many degrees by the age of 30.

1412
00:59:28.019 --> 00:59:31.619
They only do that in parallel fascist parallel universes.

1413
00:59:31.679 --> 00:59:32.880
I think she's a surgeon.

1414
00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:34.380
And other people have said this as well.

1415
00:59:34.440 --> 00:59:37.380
She's did a biomed engineered degree, didn't she?

1416
00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:39.239
But, no, they're really vague about it.

1417
00:59:39.300 --> 00:59:42.780
She says physics and meteorites and half a dozen other things and

1418
00:59:42.780 --> 00:59:44.820
she claims to be a doctor, a medical doctor later.

1419
00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:47.280
Well, the nice thing is, though, she does surgery, that's the

1420
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:49.019
whole thing, you know, because surgeons are called Misto.

1421
00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:52.679
It comes around about because of the old naval tradition, but

1422
00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:56.579
she's so I'd like to think that she's actually a surgeon and

1423
00:59:56.579 --> 00:59:57.780
that's why she gets to be called Miss.

1424
00:59:57.840 --> 01:00:01.199
I'm hoping it's not just another bit of rampant sexism in the

1425
01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:02.280
production.

1426
01:00:02.340 --> 01:00:03.900
We'll get to it in Inferno.

1427
01:00:03.960 --> 01:00:08.219
I do love that the 1st time we see Bessie driving.

1428
01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:09.780
She's driving down a busy street.

1429
01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:14.219
Every other car is like gray or dull green.

1430
01:00:14.340 --> 01:00:18.179
The buildings are like beige brick and you've got this gigantic

1431
01:00:18.179 --> 01:00:21.659
yellow car right in the middle, which you can only see on the new

1432
01:00:21.659 --> 01:00:21.960
version.

1433
01:00:22.019 --> 01:00:25.800
I think we have to call it a sprightly yellow. the yellow road

1434
01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:27.420
despite the fact that it's actually a tour.

1435
01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:30.539
A roadster only has 2 seats.

1436
01:00:30.599 --> 01:00:32.159
A tour has four.

1437
01:00:32.280 --> 01:00:32.940
So there you go.

1438
01:00:33.000 --> 01:00:33.719
See you knowing that.

1439
01:00:33.719 --> 01:00:35.460
I know it's cars.

1440
01:00:35.579 --> 01:00:38.639
Steve McQueen had just driven something that looked exactly like

1441
01:00:38.639 --> 01:00:43.019
it, 1905 Winton Flyer in the Rivers that came out the year

1442
01:00:43.019 --> 01:00:43.320
before.

1443
01:00:43.380 --> 01:00:45.960
And of course, there's Gabriel from the Secret Service, Jerry

1444
01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:48.599
Anderson's really weird, wacky.

1445
01:00:48.659 --> 01:00:50.340
Gosh, if you're looking for...

1446
01:00:50.340 --> 01:00:53.519
It's a puppet vicar who sold the crime. who's sometimes a real

1447
01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:53.760
person.

1448
01:00:53.820 --> 01:00:56.699
It's actually my favourite Jerry Anderson show of all time.

1449
01:00:56.760 --> 01:01:00.000
That is what I should have mentioned for war games. because it has

1450
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:03.059
quite a weirdly off-centered reality thing of it.

1451
01:01:03.119 --> 01:01:06.420
But yeah, he drives a cute little yellow car, Gabriel, which is

1452
01:01:06.420 --> 01:01:08.699
also in every bloody episode of UFO you've ever turned on.

1453
01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:10.860
And also for the final season of The Avengers.

1454
01:01:10.980 --> 01:01:15.300
Patrick McNee traded in his Green Bentley for series of yellow

1455
01:01:15.300 --> 01:01:16.079
Rolls Royces.

1456
01:01:16.139 --> 01:01:17.099
Not sure how we feel about that.

1457
01:01:17.159 --> 01:01:21.900
I do have a sort of theory that John Pertu is kind of cut price

1458
01:01:21.900 --> 01:01:22.920
John Steed.

1459
01:01:22.980 --> 01:01:26.340
And Adam Adamant, and the pop stars of the time.

1460
01:01:26.460 --> 01:01:30.300
He's actually, he's dressed in the rags of the rich hippies.

1461
01:01:30.360 --> 01:01:32.340
Which is interesting because as we've already said, like those

1462
01:01:32.340 --> 01:01:33.239
things were on the way out.

1463
01:01:33.300 --> 01:01:35.820
And so Doctor Who starts to do them now.

1464
01:01:36.119 --> 01:01:40.380
You notice that the car has replaced the tartars completely and

1465
01:01:40.380 --> 01:01:43.199
the tartars doesn't even get mentioned or seen in this story at

1466
01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:43.500
all.

1467
01:01:43.559 --> 01:01:44.460
That's true.

1468
01:01:44.519 --> 01:01:44.940
That's true.

1469
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:47.219
I think and that's the 1st time that's happened. that a bad

1470
01:01:47.219 --> 01:01:47.400
thing?

1471
01:01:47.460 --> 01:01:50.280
Yeah, it is, I think they're genisoning.

1472
01:01:50.340 --> 01:01:54.599
I think that, again, when we do terror, the autons, we'll see

1473
01:01:54.599 --> 01:01:58.860
exactly what decisions for this season that they immediately

1474
01:01:58.860 --> 01:02:02.699
reverse, and that's one of them, is backgrounding the TARDIS.

1475
01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:05.400
Well, Barry Letz did say that, you know, if he'd been setting up

1476
01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:10.619
the premise, they would have had, for instance, 3 stories on Earth

1477
01:02:10.619 --> 01:02:12.539
and one story off Earth.

1478
01:02:12.539 --> 01:02:16.019
As proven in next season, spoiler alert, he does get the TARDIS

1479
01:02:16.019 --> 01:02:17.099
working again, kind of.

1480
01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:21.539
We also have the 1st appearances of Peter Miles, whom we've

1481
01:02:21.539 --> 01:02:23.760
already discussed, and Jeffrey Palmer.

1482
01:02:23.820 --> 01:02:25.440
Isn't he great?

1483
01:02:25.500 --> 01:02:26.880
So awesome.

1484
01:02:26.940 --> 01:02:28.199
So no Wendy Craig.

1485
01:02:28.260 --> 01:02:31.619
No, he wasn't married to Wendy Craig for about 10,000 years.

1486
01:02:31.679 --> 01:02:32.699
What was that show called?

1487
01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:34.739
Butterflies, which was lovely.

1488
01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:36.960
Carla Lane wrote that, who wrote the Liva Birds.

1489
01:02:37.019 --> 01:02:40.500
And Wendy Craig is currently making Mother Makes three, which

1490
01:02:40.500 --> 01:02:41.699
would then be Mother Makes four.

1491
01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:44.460
She the early 70s or a great time for TV.

1492
01:02:44.519 --> 01:02:45.599
No, I've got them.

1493
01:02:45.659 --> 01:02:46.199
They gorgeous.

1494
01:02:46.260 --> 01:02:47.219
She's a great comic actor.

1495
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:49.559
This is the nice thing about this season that you're getting.

1496
01:02:49.619 --> 01:02:50.340
Paddy was doing it.

1497
01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:51.960
But it was more for children.

1498
01:02:52.019 --> 01:02:57.239
This is adult and gritty and kids and fantasy all at once, and you

1499
01:02:57.239 --> 01:03:00.119
can jump scene to scene and have a completely different show, even

1500
01:03:00.119 --> 01:03:00.900
within an episode.

1501
01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:04.320
Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't go all out gritty, does it?

1502
01:03:04.380 --> 01:03:05.039
I mean, you still do.

1503
01:03:05.159 --> 01:03:07.380
We're going to see that in the next story.

1504
01:03:07.500 --> 01:03:11.579
Yeah, I think Ambassadors of Death is certainly the peak of that

1505
01:03:11.579 --> 01:03:12.599
approach, isn't it?

1506
01:03:12.719 --> 01:03:15.300
But this is the experimental season.

1507
01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:16.500
Let's see what we can do this.

1508
01:03:16.559 --> 01:03:19.800
It does at least have sort of dinosaurs and lizards.

1509
01:03:19.860 --> 01:03:20.579
Yeah, yeah.

1510
01:03:20.639 --> 01:03:25.260
And still in the public consciousness at this point was 2001, the

1511
01:03:25.260 --> 01:03:25.559
film.

1512
01:03:25.980 --> 01:03:31.380
And this is, in a way, it's a reverse. of 2001 because 2001 was

1513
01:03:31.380 --> 01:03:35.940
about an alien species. sort of trying to evolve man to the point

1514
01:03:35.940 --> 01:03:37.199
where they can come out and visit them.

1515
01:03:37.260 --> 01:03:39.659
I've been here a lot longer than anybody realises.

1516
01:03:39.719 --> 01:03:40.199
Exactly.

1517
01:03:40.260 --> 01:03:44.280
Whereas this is, this is a species on Earth, who've woken up and

1518
01:03:44.280 --> 01:03:46.559
gone, oh, man's got a bit of a bit of his station.

1519
01:03:46.619 --> 01:03:49.500
Let's bring him back down again to the level we prefer.

1520
01:03:49.679 --> 01:03:54.420
And what is really great about that is, you know, we've had alien

1521
01:03:54.420 --> 01:03:58.380
menaces trying to pluck for a man, his mastery of space, back with

1522
01:03:58.380 --> 01:04:03.719
the animus, and attack humanity in the future with the ice worries

1523
01:04:03.719 --> 01:04:04.920
trying to take on team out.

1524
01:04:04.980 --> 01:04:09.179
But these stories are set now or in the near future.

1525
01:04:09.300 --> 01:04:13.320
They are a recognisable world for the viewers.

1526
01:04:13.380 --> 01:04:16.860
So this danger instead of being some hypothetical thing.

1527
01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:18.179
This danger is immediate.

1528
01:04:18.239 --> 01:04:19.260
This danger could happen now.

1529
01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:21.840
And by using a virus.

1530
01:04:21.960 --> 01:04:24.119
Measles was still a problem.

1531
01:04:24.179 --> 01:04:27.179
Smallpox and chicken pox in certain parts of the world was still a

1532
01:04:27.179 --> 01:04:27.420
problem.

1533
01:04:27.480 --> 01:04:30.900
So it was quite feasible that a virus could wipe out most of the

1534
01:04:30.900 --> 01:04:31.199
population.

1535
01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:31.739
It is.

1536
01:04:31.739 --> 01:04:32.579
It was a big deal.

1537
01:04:32.639 --> 01:04:34.739
Those scenes are so frightening too.

1538
01:04:34.800 --> 01:04:35.579
They're really awful.

1539
01:04:35.699 --> 01:04:38.340
When was the 1st anthrax terrorist?

1540
01:04:38.400 --> 01:04:40.320
scare. anthrax certainly existed.

1541
01:04:40.380 --> 01:04:44.400
Well, I was wondering when survivors starts, but that's not... for

1542
01:04:44.400 --> 01:04:46.800
a few more years. late 70s.

1543
01:04:46.860 --> 01:04:46.980
Yeah.

1544
01:04:47.099 --> 01:04:49.139
But those scenes.

1545
01:04:49.260 --> 01:04:52.800
So that, again, is there's a bit of a sort of longer towards the

1546
01:04:52.800 --> 01:04:57.300
end of the story where Pertwee's in a room testing drugs I talked

1547
01:04:57.300 --> 01:04:57.960
about. last time.

1548
01:04:58.019 --> 01:05:00.659
It feels like it goes on for ages, but it is actually only about

1549
01:05:00.659 --> 01:05:01.260
half an episode.

1550
01:05:01.320 --> 01:05:04.619
But it is Intercart with those scenes at Marlowbone Station, where

1551
01:05:04.619 --> 01:05:07.079
people are just dying in the street.

1552
01:05:07.199 --> 01:05:10.800
It's really awful and the police come and all of that.

1553
01:05:10.800 --> 01:05:15.480
And in fact, the chase chasing masters and all of that stuff is

1554
01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:18.900
really, really good, but it is really as grim as the show's ever

1555
01:05:18.900 --> 01:05:19.139
got.

1556
01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:22.619
Jeffrey Palmer has the wonderful distinction in Doctor Who of

1557
01:05:22.619 --> 01:05:24.900
dying horribly every time he appears.

1558
01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:27.599
You know, I think it's the biggest name actor that that happens

1559
01:05:27.599 --> 01:05:27.960
to.

1560
01:05:28.019 --> 01:05:29.760
Oh, you know what he's doing?

1561
01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:31.619
He's a...

1562
01:05:31.679 --> 01:05:33.719
Which was with Billy, wasn't it?

1563
01:05:33.780 --> 01:05:36.420
Yeah, so he was actually, he has more right to be dying than

1564
01:05:36.420 --> 01:05:37.500
anybody else.

1565
01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:42.780
Because he dies of a virus in this in the mutants. shot in episode

1566
01:05:42.780 --> 01:05:43.079
one.

1567
01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:45.539
Shot an episode one. and famously very painful, I think.

1568
01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:50.039
Famously, in the discontinuity guy, the authors say Jeffrey

1569
01:05:50.039 --> 01:05:52.079
Palmer's the best thing about these dead before the end of episode

1570
01:05:52.079 --> 01:05:52.559
one.

1571
01:05:52.619 --> 01:05:57.480
And he has half a bulkhead fall on him in Voyage of the Damned.

1572
01:05:57.900 --> 01:06:01.260
Oh, of course, he's back in voyage of the dam.

1573
01:06:01.320 --> 01:06:02.400
I completely forgotten.

1574
01:06:02.460 --> 01:06:05.880
After he shot Russell Toby, which makes him one of the most evil

1575
01:06:05.880 --> 01:06:07.019
people in Doctor Who ever.

1576
01:06:07.139 --> 01:06:08.639
Wow, I must watch that again.

1577
01:06:08.699 --> 01:06:09.840
I missed that this Christmas.

1578
01:06:09.900 --> 01:06:13.199
It is kind of terrible, but I forgot that Jeffrey Palmer is in it

1579
01:06:13.260 --> 01:06:13.739
fantastic.

1580
01:06:13.800 --> 01:06:15.840
And of course, Paul Darrow.

1581
01:06:15.900 --> 01:06:18.119
Yes, very young.

1582
01:06:18.119 --> 01:06:19.500
Jimmy Darrow for this.

1583
01:06:19.559 --> 01:06:23.219
Yes, we've had Jimmy Monroe and Jimmy Bloody Everybody, Jimmy.

1584
01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:24.780
Yeah, that's Jimmy.

1585
01:06:24.780 --> 01:06:27.420
Jimmy's Magic Flute from HR Puff and stuff.

1586
01:06:27.480 --> 01:06:30.119
I think was a captain in the next story, isn't it?

1587
01:06:30.179 --> 01:06:33.840
Yeah, it's really weird that we keep having changing unit

1588
01:06:33.840 --> 01:06:34.500
captains.

1589
01:06:34.559 --> 01:06:35.460
Was there a reason for that?

1590
01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:36.179
Cool.

1591
01:06:36.179 --> 01:06:37.019
I'm glad you asked.

1592
01:06:37.079 --> 01:06:39.360
Yeah, there was...

1593
01:06:39.420 --> 01:06:41.099
Derek's just smooth as tap on.

1594
01:06:41.159 --> 01:06:42.599
Derek Sherwin had this thing.

1595
01:06:42.659 --> 01:06:46.260
I won't call it an idea that it looks so much more capacious and

1596
01:06:46.260 --> 01:06:50.159
UN and not just another episode of the Champions if you have a

1597
01:06:50.159 --> 01:06:53.039
completely different underling team, every single story.

1598
01:06:53.159 --> 01:06:54.119
It will seem vast.

1599
01:06:54.179 --> 01:06:54.840
No, it won't.

1600
01:06:54.900 --> 01:06:59.219
It'll seem choppy and discordant and that's why we get Mr. Benton

1601
01:06:59.219 --> 01:07:01.139
for the rest of her happy years.

1602
01:07:01.199 --> 01:07:03.300
And then we get, and another captain coming in.

1603
01:07:03.360 --> 01:07:04.860
Not called Jimmy next year.

1604
01:07:04.980 --> 01:07:08.760
Well, in fact, in fact, he is kind of right because next year when

1605
01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:11.760
it does settle down to being, you know, Captain...

1606
01:07:11.760 --> 01:07:12.780
Dad's army in the future.

1607
01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:16.019
Well, you know, now unit consists of 4 people, essentially.

1608
01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:17.639
It's not true, actually, isn't it?

1609
01:07:18.179 --> 01:07:23.280
At the same time, when you see senior army officers in anything

1610
01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:27.480
else, they do have an adjutant, they have one person who is their

1611
01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:29.340
assistant. you know.

1612
01:07:29.400 --> 01:07:30.659
So it is understandable.

1613
01:07:30.719 --> 01:07:33.000
But yeah, at the same time, unit does start to feel a bit

1614
01:07:33.000 --> 01:07:33.300
smaller.

1615
01:07:33.360 --> 01:07:34.920
I miss Captain Monroe.

1616
01:07:35.039 --> 01:07:36.840
Captain Monroe was great.

1617
01:07:36.900 --> 01:07:38.340
But Captain Hawkins.

1618
01:07:38.400 --> 01:07:40.380
Paul Darrow, he's not actually that bad.

1619
01:07:40.440 --> 01:07:42.059
He plays his dead streak.

1620
01:07:42.119 --> 01:07:43.260
No, he doesn't.

1621
01:07:43.320 --> 01:07:44.639
He's really camp again.

1622
01:07:44.699 --> 01:07:48.059
And he hasn't quite, you know, he hasn't quite got that snarling

1623
01:07:48.059 --> 01:07:52.619
over enunciation that Avon has, but he still he still waves his

1624
01:07:52.619 --> 01:07:55.860
gun around the way that Avon does in this sort of massively.

1625
01:07:55.920 --> 01:07:58.320
Yeah, sort of florid way.

1626
01:07:58.380 --> 01:08:00.659
He's saluting the troops at the colour, yes.

1627
01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:01.800
He's fabulous.

1628
01:08:01.860 --> 01:08:05.699
He is really great and he's got a very sort of piercing voice.

1629
01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:08.760
He'll come back as male and tanker and he'll sort of out.

1630
01:08:08.940 --> 01:08:10.500
Colin Baker.

1631
01:08:10.559 --> 01:08:11.940
Like, it's not a great moment.

1632
01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:16.680
He's revenge camping Colin Baker there, but I suppose here no one

1633
01:08:16.680 --> 01:08:17.640
has wronged him yet.

1634
01:08:17.699 --> 01:08:19.380
So he gives a lovely.

1635
01:08:19.439 --> 01:08:21.479
I actually think it's quite an understated performance.

1636
01:08:21.539 --> 01:08:23.279
For him, I think it really is.

1637
01:08:23.340 --> 01:08:23.699
Yeah.

1638
01:08:23.699 --> 01:08:27.180
And the one sort of pity about that is...

1639
01:08:27.180 --> 01:08:29.579
You don't even know if he dies or not.

1640
01:08:29.640 --> 01:08:32.699
Like a Silurian zaps him for a 2nd and he falls down.

1641
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:33.840
And he never sees me again.

1642
01:08:33.899 --> 01:08:34.800
Yeah, he's probably dead.

1643
01:08:34.920 --> 01:08:39.539
Miss Dawson, who catches the plague and then we never hear.

1644
01:08:39.600 --> 01:08:40.560
I'm sure she's better.

1645
01:08:40.619 --> 01:08:44.399
I'm sure she's visiting her mother soon after, you know, everything

1646
01:08:44.399 --> 01:08:44.939
explodes.

1647
01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:50.039
And she and she finds and nice gentlemen to settle down with, which

1648
01:08:50.039 --> 01:08:51.899
is, you know, what she wanted.

1649
01:08:51.960 --> 01:08:54.180
Yeah, she wanted to find someone to take care of.

1650
01:08:54.239 --> 01:08:55.979
Maybe octail survives.

1651
01:08:56.039 --> 01:08:58.199
Yes, she settles down with him.

1652
01:08:58.260 --> 01:09:02.579
Initially, how about how about Miss Dawkins and Captain Hawkins?

1653
01:09:02.640 --> 01:09:05.640
Oh, that would be, this story is a bit Old Testament.

1654
01:09:05.699 --> 01:09:07.800
They all die horribly in one of the many plays.

1655
01:09:08.640 --> 01:09:11.880
Maybe she settles down with Ivan Orton.

1656
01:09:11.939 --> 01:09:13.859
Did you notice that in Spearhead?

1657
01:09:13.859 --> 01:09:18.960
Because they re- they reshot the space sphincter in the space tank

1658
01:09:18.960 --> 01:09:22.619
for the final episode, that was a re- that was a remount.

1659
01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:23.159
Yeah, yeah.

1660
01:09:23.220 --> 01:09:27.000
They remounted the Space Fix, which is why...

1661
01:09:27.060 --> 01:09:30.000
Which is why it's brilliant the only bit in the story.

1662
01:09:30.300 --> 01:09:32.340
I reckon that Pertwee looks relaxed.

1663
01:09:32.399 --> 01:09:35.520
Because he knew it was a reshoot and if they got it wrong, they'd

1664
01:09:35.520 --> 01:09:35.880
do it again.

1665
01:09:35.939 --> 01:09:37.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1666
01:09:37.199 --> 01:09:42.300
But Hugh Burton had was back doing his other show on ITC based on

1667
01:09:42.300 --> 01:09:43.380
the Edgar Waller stories.

1668
01:09:43.439 --> 01:09:49.079
So it's a bloke lying down in Channing's suit, but he's billed as

1669
01:09:49.079 --> 01:09:50.220
Ivan Orton.

1670
01:09:50.279 --> 01:09:53.399
Oh, yeah, Ivan Orton.

1671
01:09:53.460 --> 01:09:53.880
Brilliant.

1672
01:09:53.939 --> 01:09:58.140
So it's probably Torah Wilcox or Barry Glitter or someone or Jimmy

1673
01:09:58.140 --> 01:10:02.460
Savile, someone famous that we own or don't want to know.

1674
01:10:02.520 --> 01:10:05.159
Yeah, we don't want to.

1675
01:10:05.159 --> 01:10:05.699
We don't know.

1676
01:10:06.539 --> 01:10:10.800
And I just want to send out there a very big thank you to the

1677
01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:13.739
restoration team because the colour version of this story is

1678
01:10:13.739 --> 01:10:15.779
pretty damn good.

1679
01:10:15.779 --> 01:10:17.880
I loved the black and white version as a child.

1680
01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:19.680
Once I finally actually sat down and watched it.

1681
01:10:19.739 --> 01:10:22.739
And then I never saw the colour VHS.

1682
01:10:22.800 --> 01:10:27.119
So the 1st time I saw it in colour was when I bought the DVD and

1683
01:10:27.119 --> 01:10:31.619
it was like, 0 my god, the base meeting room is burnt orange

1684
01:10:31.800 --> 01:10:32.100
horrible.

1685
01:10:32.159 --> 01:10:33.479
There's a lot of orange in this story.

1686
01:10:33.539 --> 01:10:36.359
Yeah, actually the young Silurian is pretty orange too.

1687
01:10:36.420 --> 01:10:39.960
And the Silurian base, I think benefits from colour as well.

1688
01:10:40.020 --> 01:10:43.380
Yeah, it's very sort of agate green.

1689
01:10:43.439 --> 01:10:47.279
Well, there's a lot of really weird psychedelic colours that are

1690
01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:50.159
coming up this particularly next season.

1691
01:10:50.220 --> 01:10:50.939
Yeah.

1692
01:10:50.939 --> 01:10:53.640
Next season, I think it hits a time, but it is a feature of the

1693
01:10:53.640 --> 01:10:54.779
Perto era.

1694
01:10:54.840 --> 01:10:57.659
So we've had black and white now we have this really, really kind

1695
01:10:57.659 --> 01:11:02.880
of off-putting psychedelic kind of rock top of the pops.

1696
01:11:02.939 --> 01:11:06.420
We're not just in colour wearing bloody colour.

1697
01:11:06.479 --> 01:11:09.420
You know, the opening titles were going to have pert wheat

1698
01:11:09.420 --> 01:11:13.079
frocking about with his cape and his cape would rise and drop to

1699
01:11:13.079 --> 01:11:14.279
reveal the swirls.

1700
01:11:14.340 --> 01:11:17.460
That was one version they filmed, or one where he's doing a

1701
01:11:17.460 --> 01:11:20.520
Christopher Lee Dracula thing with his arms outstretched in the

1702
01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:21.119
Coke wings.

1703
01:11:21.239 --> 01:11:23.640
And one way famously is, but we saved himself.

1704
01:11:23.699 --> 01:11:24.720
I had 3 noses.

1705
01:11:24.779 --> 01:11:25.920
So we didn't go with that one.

1706
01:11:26.220 --> 01:11:29.399
Which is different to the usual.

1707
01:11:29.460 --> 01:11:33.239
Did you feel that it was a bit, the score of this cut?

1708
01:11:33.300 --> 01:11:35.460
You either love it or hated, you know, because as we know, there's

1709
01:11:35.460 --> 01:11:36.239
mediaeval instruments.

1710
01:11:36.300 --> 01:11:38.760
It isn't synth, some of it, it sounds like synth is actually a

1711
01:11:38.760 --> 01:11:42.239
mediaeval oboe that he played to Barry Letts down the phone and he

1712
01:11:42.239 --> 01:11:43.619
said, it sounded execrable.

1713
01:11:44.819 --> 01:11:47.640
But how do you feel about the sound of this?

1714
01:11:47.760 --> 01:11:49.859
Do you know, I really like it.

1715
01:11:49.920 --> 01:11:53.220
Yes, do I. It's not doing what Doctor Who themes do now.

1716
01:11:53.279 --> 01:11:59.279
It is just sort of creating weird counterpoints to the action or

1717
01:11:59.279 --> 01:11:59.579
something.

1718
01:11:59.640 --> 01:12:01.859
It's quite intrusive, isn't it?

1719
01:12:01.920 --> 01:12:02.640
But then, really?

1720
01:12:02.640 --> 01:12:05.880
I think it balances the Salurian calling device.

1721
01:12:05.880 --> 01:12:07.199
Yeah, really nicely.

1722
01:12:07.260 --> 01:12:10.739
And, you know, it's some things like when we're in the cage, you'll

1723
01:12:10.739 --> 01:12:14.340
hear dripping water and the music will sound like dripping water.

1724
01:12:14.399 --> 01:12:15.600
It'll sound like where we are.

1725
01:12:15.659 --> 01:12:18.300
It'll sound a bit more technological or it will sound a bit more

1726
01:12:18.300 --> 01:12:19.260
natural.

1727
01:12:19.319 --> 01:12:20.340
Um, I think.

1728
01:12:20.340 --> 01:12:23.220
Oh, clutes, crumbles and circumstance.

1729
01:12:23.279 --> 01:12:24.300
That what you're hearing in those things.

1730
01:12:24.359 --> 01:12:25.319
Yes, of course.

1731
01:12:25.380 --> 01:12:27.600
I just think it's really atmospheric.

1732
01:12:28.260 --> 01:12:31.979
And because it's surprising because it's not electronic and it has

1733
01:12:31.979 --> 01:12:36.180
the sound of breathing in it and something that doesn't belong to

1734
01:12:36.180 --> 01:12:37.739
our time or our place.

1735
01:12:37.859 --> 01:12:42.659
Look, I mean, by sort of next year or the year after, we'll think

1736
01:12:42.659 --> 01:12:47.100
of this as sort of classical music, because the entire sort of per

1737
01:12:47.100 --> 01:12:50.100
twee score thing goes completely mental.

1738
01:12:50.100 --> 01:12:50.880
Yeah, Dudley Jones.

1739
01:12:50.939 --> 01:12:53.819
Yeah, and Malcolm...

1740
01:12:53.880 --> 01:12:57.239
No, it's like someone playing a single ringtone.

1741
01:12:58.680 --> 01:13:02.399
We get carried back for Death to the Daleks and Revenge of the

1742
01:13:02.399 --> 01:13:04.020
Cybermen. watching the song.

1743
01:13:04.020 --> 01:13:04.439
Yeah.

1744
01:13:04.500 --> 01:13:05.399
What exactly?

1745
01:13:05.399 --> 01:13:07.020
Jets of the Dianx has got gray.

1746
01:13:07.020 --> 01:13:07.979
I love it.

1747
01:13:07.979 --> 01:13:12.180
And the other, the saxophone. watching this again, I thought, oh

1748
01:13:12.180 --> 01:13:13.260
actually, I didn't watch it.

1749
01:13:13.319 --> 01:13:18.000
I listened to Carrie reading it on the audio, like I just got

1750
01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:18.300
right here.

1751
01:13:18.359 --> 01:13:19.800
Terrific, isn't it?

1752
01:13:19.859 --> 01:13:21.180
She does the best pert.

1753
01:13:21.239 --> 01:13:22.979
I really enjoyed it this time. is wonderful.

1754
01:13:23.039 --> 01:13:24.180
I love those podcasts.

1755
01:13:24.479 --> 01:13:27.359
I'm listening to it this time around in that version really worked

1756
01:13:27.359 --> 01:13:29.279
for me. really worked for me.

1757
01:13:29.579 --> 01:13:32.880
Carrie Plyton, I should say, I mean, Carrie John.

1758
01:13:32.939 --> 01:13:37.380
Carrie Blythe and other great calls the fame of adding the

1759
01:13:37.380 --> 01:13:41.640
clarinet to the Andy Pandy theme, writing the bananas in pyjamas

1760
01:13:41.640 --> 01:13:43.739
theme for which he got constantly paid.

1761
01:13:43.800 --> 01:13:44.880
He didn't really have to work after that.

1762
01:13:44.939 --> 01:13:46.739
And his aunt wrote the noddy theme.

1763
01:13:46.800 --> 01:13:49.500
So when you're thinking this sounds a little bit like Play School

1764
01:13:49.500 --> 01:13:50.340
you're actually right.

1765
01:13:52.020 --> 01:13:56.159
The last thing I want to talk about is just the technology in the

1766
01:13:56.159 --> 01:14:01.319
story and specifically the Cyclotron, which being used as a method

1767
01:14:01.319 --> 01:14:04.859
of power was quite unusual, but much like the use of plate

1768
01:14:04.859 --> 01:14:08.640
tectonics in the plot, it was cutting edge science at the time.

1769
01:14:08.699 --> 01:14:11.039
A lot of palaeontologists still didn't believe that plate

1770
01:14:11.039 --> 01:14:13.920
technonics were a thing in 1917.

1771
01:14:14.159 --> 01:14:15.539
I know it's so weird, isn't it?

1772
01:14:15.600 --> 01:14:18.779
We just think we must have always known that, but it was really

1773
01:14:18.779 --> 01:14:19.079
recent.

1774
01:14:19.140 --> 01:14:21.659
We didn't even know about black holes when this was filmed.

1775
01:14:21.720 --> 01:14:23.279
No, 3 years off, yeah.

1776
01:14:23.340 --> 01:14:27.479
But the Cyclotron very much interested me because when I sort of

1777
01:14:27.479 --> 01:14:28.859
really listened to what it does.

1778
01:14:28.920 --> 01:14:32.039
I'm like, that's just a large Hadrinkolider.

1779
01:14:32.100 --> 01:14:33.119
That's CERN.

1780
01:14:33.180 --> 01:14:34.439
It's a particle accelerator.

1781
01:14:34.439 --> 01:14:35.640
Yeah, it's described.

1782
01:14:35.760 --> 01:14:41.520
And, you know, it's amazing that We go from that being a cutting

1783
01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:46.199
edge idea in 1970 to being a mainstream idea.

1784
01:14:46.260 --> 01:14:49.560
Certain part, certainly particle accelerators and particle

1785
01:14:49.560 --> 01:14:52.260
colliders existed before the large hadron collider, but that's

1786
01:14:52.260 --> 01:14:56.880
really when it hit currency in about 2010 with people going, 0 my

1787
01:14:56.880 --> 01:14:57.960
god, yeah, that's amazing.

1788
01:14:58.020 --> 01:15:00.659
Look at that. 40 years.

1789
01:15:00.720 --> 01:15:01.380
That's it.

1790
01:15:01.439 --> 01:15:02.340
How is it going?

1791
01:15:02.399 --> 01:15:07.140
years ago and Peter Miles had one..

1792
01:15:07.199 --> 01:15:09.060
How was going to be a power source?

1793
01:15:10.079 --> 01:15:13.380
Well, I mean, is the other thing the Van Allen belt as well?

1794
01:15:13.500 --> 01:15:16.500
Yes, I mean, science that we'd get from, is that the thing?

1795
01:15:16.560 --> 01:15:19.979
Yeah, the schoolboys were riding into Mac Holt, according to the

1796
01:15:19.979 --> 01:15:21.180
production office, saying, got that long.

1797
01:15:21.180 --> 01:15:22.920
Yeah, yeah.

1798
01:15:23.039 --> 01:15:25.199
Yeah, apparently is a thing, but it wouldn't have actually

1799
01:15:25.199 --> 01:15:26.819
affected the way they were talking.

1800
01:15:26.880 --> 01:15:27.420
Oh, okay.

1801
01:15:27.479 --> 01:15:27.899
Yeah.

1802
01:15:27.960 --> 01:15:32.100
But there is a belt of the atmosphere, whose name escapes me at

1803
01:15:32.100 --> 01:15:34.380
the moment, where if you stripped that away, would have the effect

1804
01:15:34.380 --> 01:15:35.340
Liz was talking about.

1805
01:15:35.399 --> 01:15:37.260
The ozone lighter.

1806
01:15:37.319 --> 01:15:38.939
We've lost that.

1807
01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:39.720
Quite possibly.

1808
01:15:39.779 --> 01:15:41.279
No, we haven't.

1809
01:15:41.279 --> 01:15:41.760
Almost.

1810
01:15:41.819 --> 01:15:43.380
A cup burnt phone.

1811
01:15:43.800 --> 01:15:45.539
We're inside.

1812
01:15:46.319 --> 01:15:49.020
There is a kind of moral dilemma here.

1813
01:15:49.079 --> 01:15:52.199
And the very last moment, I think, is pretty well done.

1814
01:15:52.260 --> 01:15:54.720
So you've got the doctor and Liz in Bessie.

1815
01:15:54.779 --> 01:15:55.920
Bessie stalled.

1816
01:15:55.979 --> 01:15:59.159
The brigadier thinks the doctor and Lisa have gone already, but

1817
01:15:59.159 --> 01:16:00.000
they haven't.

1818
01:16:00.060 --> 01:16:04.680
The doctor does something very Troutonian with his uh, with the

1819
01:16:04.680 --> 01:16:05.159
car.

1820
01:16:05.220 --> 01:16:08.760
He puts something silly in the in the crack.

1821
01:16:08.819 --> 01:16:10.619
Yeah, tracks it.

1822
01:16:10.680 --> 01:16:11.039
It's cute.

1823
01:16:11.880 --> 01:16:17.699
So there's a little bit of silly fun and and Liz is wearing like

1824
01:16:17.699 --> 01:16:20.340
an atrocious headscarf for no kind of reason.

1825
01:16:20.460 --> 01:16:23.520
And then things start exploding and it turns out that the

1826
01:16:23.520 --> 01:16:29.579
brigadier has killed all of the Siurians, that they've all been

1827
01:16:29.579 --> 01:16:30.239
exploded.

1828
01:16:30.300 --> 01:16:33.779
He's blown up the sleeping banks as well, is blown up.

1829
01:16:33.840 --> 01:16:35.399
Yeah, that's and that's how we meant to read it.

1830
01:16:35.460 --> 01:16:36.720
It is so genocide.

1831
01:16:36.779 --> 01:16:42.119
And it's a really cold, cool, realistic moment for pert weed.

1832
01:16:42.180 --> 01:16:45.000
It's kind of the birth and death of Doctor Who in these last 2

1833
01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:45.420
stories.

1834
01:16:45.479 --> 01:16:49.319
This is the season 7, beginning and end with the previous story in

1835
01:16:49.319 --> 01:16:51.899
this one, and after this, we'll have a whole different show.

1836
01:16:51.960 --> 01:16:53.039
Barry Letts did this.

1837
01:16:53.100 --> 01:16:54.960
This was Barry's writing at the end of it.

1838
01:16:55.020 --> 01:16:56.220
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1839
01:16:56.279 --> 01:16:58.920
The doctor in Mac Hulk's script was apparently getting all excited

1840
01:16:58.920 --> 01:17:00.359
about the new science-y stuff.

1841
01:17:00.359 --> 01:17:01.800
That was scripted.

1842
01:17:01.859 --> 01:17:06.420
But there was no death to the infidels as you get in this one.

1843
01:17:06.539 --> 01:17:08.939
Well, it's appalling, isn't it?

1844
01:17:09.000 --> 01:17:12.300
Well, like I, Santa says it blows up the program.

1845
01:17:12.359 --> 01:17:12.960
Do you know what I mean?

1846
01:17:13.020 --> 01:17:16.560
He says, well, you know, why on earth would the doctor ever

1847
01:17:16.560 --> 01:17:18.000
consider continuing to work?

1848
01:17:18.060 --> 01:17:20.939
Yeah, why would you come back after the, it's his moral duty?

1849
01:17:21.000 --> 01:17:21.840
moral duty?

1850
01:17:21.899 --> 01:17:24.420
But I actually think that the script does go out of its way to try

1851
01:17:24.420 --> 01:17:25.439
and justify it.

1852
01:17:25.500 --> 01:17:31.079
So, you know, Morca, um, is staying alive.

1853
01:17:31.140 --> 01:17:32.100
Do you know what I mean?

1854
01:17:32.159 --> 01:17:33.180
He's not.

1855
01:17:33.239 --> 01:17:34.739
And he's going to release everyone again.

1856
01:17:34.800 --> 01:17:36.239
He's about to release.

1857
01:17:36.239 --> 01:17:37.380
So he's about to release everyone.

1858
01:17:37.439 --> 01:17:41.880
Everyone's set anyway to wake up in 50 years time and Morpus says

1859
01:17:41.880 --> 01:17:44.340
make sure that you kill all the humans, you know, or deal with

1860
01:17:44.340 --> 01:17:44.939
them and stuff.

1861
01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:48.000
And with the death of octail, you know, again, we have this thing

1862
01:17:48.000 --> 01:17:51.479
where the Silurians are meant to be people, but they're just sort

1863
01:17:51.479 --> 01:17:54.479
of genocidal lizards, really, with the exception of octail.

1864
01:17:54.539 --> 01:17:57.239
You know, all of them are quite willing to kill everyone.

1865
01:17:57.420 --> 01:18:01.859
And so, you know, it is painted as a moral dilemma.

1866
01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:04.619
It's certainly directed that way and the very last shot of the

1867
01:18:04.619 --> 01:18:07.500
story is, you know, explosions on the hillside.

1868
01:18:07.560 --> 01:18:12.539
So we are left with that image, but I have to say the script tries

1869
01:18:12.539 --> 01:18:15.479
at least to justify the brigadier's position.

1870
01:18:15.539 --> 01:18:17.640
It's very up to date, is it?

1871
01:18:17.760 --> 01:18:22.920
What it also does is it really enhances the characters we've got.

1872
01:18:22.979 --> 01:18:26.579
You know, it shows us that the brigadier is ruthless in the

1873
01:18:26.579 --> 01:18:27.899
pursuit of his duty.

1874
01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:33.539
But it's also a great character moment for Liz because in the

1875
01:18:33.539 --> 01:18:35.340
revised version of the script.

1876
01:18:35.520 --> 01:18:37.079
Liz was in on it.

1877
01:18:37.140 --> 01:18:40.979
Liz knew what the brigady had made and so sort of bundled the

1878
01:18:40.979 --> 01:18:44.100
doctor out of the place and then they broke down and...

1879
01:18:44.159 --> 01:18:46.619
Well, Carol and John actually put her foot down and said, well, no

1880
01:18:46.619 --> 01:18:47.939
I think Liz would agree with the doctor.

1881
01:18:48.000 --> 01:18:50.279
She a scientist and she's not a murderer.

1882
01:18:50.340 --> 01:18:55.380
And but we said, how is the doctor meant to live with this

1883
01:18:55.380 --> 01:18:56.340
character of Liz?

1884
01:18:56.399 --> 01:18:56.939
She's his friend.

1885
01:18:57.000 --> 01:18:58.260
The brigadier is just a colleague.

1886
01:18:58.319 --> 01:19:00.720
You know, he can sort of put that, he can't do that with his

1887
01:19:00.720 --> 01:19:00.960
friends.

1888
01:19:01.020 --> 01:19:01.979
They're stuck up for each other.

1889
01:19:02.039 --> 01:19:04.260
Similarly, right at the beginning of the story, when they go down

1890
01:19:04.260 --> 01:19:08.520
into the caves, in the script, Liz was meant to go down into the

1891
01:19:08.520 --> 01:19:09.840
caves in her miniskirt.

1892
01:19:09.840 --> 01:19:12.479
And Carolyn John was like, well, that's a bit stupid.

1893
01:19:12.539 --> 01:19:14.340
Why can't, you know, it's not realistic.

1894
01:19:14.399 --> 01:19:16.739
And Pertwee actually said that director, that That's completely

1895
01:19:16.739 --> 01:19:17.460
ridiculous.

1896
01:19:17.520 --> 01:19:20.579
The doctor would not hang out with anyone so stupid as to go

1897
01:19:20.579 --> 01:19:22.979
caving in a miniskirt, get her into a boiler suit.

1898
01:19:23.100 --> 01:19:26.399
So, you know, but it's the only time of his life he ever said

1899
01:19:26.399 --> 01:19:26.640
that.

1900
01:19:26.699 --> 01:19:29.100
Yeah, it all changes next to you.

1901
01:19:29.159 --> 01:19:33.479
But, you know, we have heard stories that John and Kara may not

1902
01:19:33.479 --> 01:19:33.840
have got on.

1903
01:19:33.899 --> 01:19:36.840
There was apparently some tension between them on the 75 doctors.

1904
01:19:36.899 --> 01:19:41.939
But really, more recently, um, with the now sadly departed Carrie

1905
01:19:41.939 --> 01:19:45.479
John on DVD extras, it sounds like there was a great deal of um

1906
01:19:45.479 --> 01:19:48.000
fondness and respect between them.

1907
01:19:48.060 --> 01:19:50.579
I think you were saying earlier, Richard, she idolised him and he

1908
01:19:50.579 --> 01:19:52.859
was amazed because she'd worked with Olivier.

1909
01:19:52.920 --> 01:19:53.579
Yeah.

1910
01:19:53.579 --> 01:19:55.079
They are nice together.

1911
01:19:55.140 --> 01:19:56.460
I think they are nice.

1912
01:19:56.579 --> 01:19:57.180
Their dream team.

1913
01:19:57.239 --> 01:19:58.979
I'd have liked another year, thanks.

1914
01:19:59.039 --> 01:20:03.899
I mean, it wasn't possible because she was ready to find out. or

1915
01:20:03.899 --> 01:20:04.199
alone.

1916
01:20:16.380 --> 01:20:20.880
Well, that's, um, that's all the time we have for these two

1917
01:20:20.880 --> 01:20:21.300
stories.

1918
01:20:21.420 --> 01:20:25.920
We will be back to discuss the ambassador's death and inferno, but

1919
01:20:25.920 --> 01:20:28.920
just before we go, gentlemen, do we know what yesterday was?

1920
01:20:30.479 --> 01:20:31.979
Saturday.

1921
01:20:32.039 --> 01:20:38.640
It was Saturday, the 3rd of January, therefore 45 years since the

1922
01:20:38.640 --> 01:20:40.859
broadcast of episode one of Spearhead from Space.

1923
01:20:40.920 --> 01:20:42.840
Oh, how exciting.

1924
01:20:42.899 --> 01:20:44.760
In the UK, not here, yeah.

1925
01:20:44.819 --> 01:20:47.100
Yeah, in the UK. 45 years.

1926
01:20:47.159 --> 01:20:47.819
Goodness.

1927
01:20:47.880 --> 01:20:49.020
Just seems like yesterday.

1928
01:20:49.079 --> 01:20:52.319
So, celebrating 45 years of pert week.

1929
01:20:52.380 --> 01:20:53.880
This is quite through entirety signing off.

1930
01:20:53.939 --> 01:20:54.180
Good night.

1931
01:20:54.239 --> 01:20:54.779
Good night.

1932
01:20:54.840 --> 01:20:55.319
Goodbye.

1933
01:20:55.380 --> 01:20:55.619
Thank you.

1934
01:21:00.300 --> 01:21:04.199
That was Fletcher Entitled to you, Nathan Bottle, Roman Jones, and

1935
01:21:04.199 --> 01:21:04.920
Richard Stone.

1936
01:21:04.979 --> 01:21:08.159
This episode, they've cancelled my show, was recorded on January

1937
01:21:08.159 --> 01:21:09.779
the 3rd, 2015.

1938
01:21:10.020 --> 01:21:12.359
The next episode will be released on February 2nd.

1939
01:21:12.420 --> 01:21:15.899
You can find us online to entirety.com, fly the entirety on

1940
01:21:15.899 --> 01:21:18.659
Facebook and iTunes at FTA podcast on Twitter.

1941
01:21:18.720 --> 01:21:21.840
I'm not sure if we're with 150000000 pins, but that seems a very

1942
01:21:21.840 --> 01:21:23.159
odd unit of currency anyway.

1943
01:21:29.220 --> 01:21:33.659
Do you remember the, um, The French and Saunders sketch.

1944
01:21:33.720 --> 01:21:34.739
With the solorians.

1945
01:21:34.800 --> 01:21:38.579
I am the side you're in, and I'm going on my tea break.