WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:26:59

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Hello, dear listener and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast which spends an inordinate amount of

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time thinking and talking about the invasion of the hot Italians.

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Or is that just me?

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Peter.

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Well, it's episode 12, and you know what that means.

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Any number of celebrity guests cameos swiftly followed by the

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imminent destruction of the entire universe.

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But since it looks like we're planning to actually follow through

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this year, we must have only about an hour left to discuss what

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happens when the Pandorica opens.

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This is an episode 12, and over the past sort of 4 years or so, not

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counting the specials.

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We've been trained to expect certain things from episode 12.

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Does this do them, do we think?

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We have 7 minutes of pre-credit sequence?

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Have we had that before?

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No, that is a special thing, isn't it?

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I adore it actually.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I remember this was the 1st full season I saw when I was living in

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the UK.

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I remember sitting in my house in London with my flatmate who was

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also a big Doctor Who fan.

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Hello, Lee Thompson, and just our jaws getting progressively lower

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with, oh my god, it's Liz Ted.

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Oh my god, it's River song.

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Oh my god, it's Winston Churchill.

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Oh my god, it's Vincent.

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And I think I just did them in reverse order.

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But yeah, it was gobsmacking.

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After about the 2nd one, you're thinking they're going, oh my god

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are they going to do everyone?

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It's the 1st time that Stephen Mothat does that kind of cutting

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between vignettes breathlessly in a teaser and Russell did it in

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2008 with the stolen earth and it worked so well.

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I was a little bit disappointed that we didn't get more.

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I mean, where was Cully from the 11th hour or Air Kiss guy from

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football guy from the Lodger?

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You know, I wanted them all back.

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But it was amazing.

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It is different though, isn't it, from that stolen earth thing?

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Because the stolen earth is set in a universe that's been

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carefully built up over 4 years and the RTD finales generally tend

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to put us back in that world.

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So they're always at least partly set on earth in the present day

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in this sort of well-known world.

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But Moffat doesn't create a universe for the doctor to have his

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adventures in.

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Moffat is telling a series of Doctor Who stories.

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And so what we get instead is little bits of the previous stories

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that we've had this year.

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And I think they're marvellous.

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And I think I think that what he does is this caper.

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It's like it's a caper about a painting, a Van Gogh painting, a

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lost Van Gogh painting.

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And, you know, we're tracing it.

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We don't see the painting until the very, very, very last moment.

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We hear about the painting.

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We trace River Song's adventures.

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All of that sort of stuff and it's so light and fun and funny

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despite the clear stakes, which are made absolutely clear at the

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end.

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It is very funny.

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I mean, it gets, you know, the big blue guy turning up that whole

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sequence with, you know, the vortex manipulator off the wrist of

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handsome time agent.

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Which is Captain Jack, right?

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He grew one back.

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Oh, so it's not back to like the doctor getting his hand chopped

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off as well.

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I didn't think about that as well.

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And then the whole, what does she put in his drink, Nathan?

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Oh, micro explosives.

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And he takes a quick sip and then asks what micro explosives.

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So perfect.

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Totally river stealing that from Princess Lia in return of the

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Jedi.

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He's holding a thermal detonator.

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And let's face it, Dorian's not unlike jab of the heart.

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My favourite bit is the pretty young guard who she sort of misses

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Robinson's and seducers and that limp, you know, sort of stick

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figure that he then thinks is with the sort of big hair.

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It's just, it's so fun.

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It's so incredibly fun.

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Yeah, and then and then, of course, to cut to Amy and the doctor.

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Like, you know, 4 minutes into that teaser and, you know, the

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hollow sweetie, the 1st recorded words in history.

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I mean, really.

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And then, and then the Roman Legion and, you know, what is he, he's

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mistaken for what, Caesar?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. because of her lipstick.

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She's Cleopatra.

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I mean, it's just it's just such a romp.

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It's it's absolutely wonderful.

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It's light and fun and it's clearly going places.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Notice how River has escalated her.

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Hello, sweetie, every time she's appeared.

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So the 1st time it was on the psychic paper.

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The 2nd time it sort of carved into the black box of the

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Byzantium.

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And then, you know, the 3rd time it's now carved on a giant

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cliff.

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And the 2 it says hello, sweetie, there at the top.

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And then there's Theta Sigma. are the 1st 2 characters in the 2nd

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row, and then there's some coordinates or whatever the hell it

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is.

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But it's just so fun.

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And I think that computer-generated planet looks awesome.

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It is the 1st time they've...

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Oh, there's a planet, isn't there, in Army of Ghosts, where they

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visit, just in the teaser, for like, you know, I, the erode says I

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never want to leave the doctor, and it's similarly spectacular

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because they only have to do it for the one shot.

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Yeah.

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But even then, you know, that is like a rocky planet so they can

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get David and Billy to stand on that rocky beach that becomes Bad

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Wolf Bay as well and dinosaurs on a spaceship and just CGI in St.

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Rocks.

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But this is lush, hopefully not aggressive vegetation.

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It reminds me of mechanism.

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Well, what doesn't?

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But it's absolutely a sort of terry nation style dalek jungle

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planet with giant fungoids.

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He missed a beat there.

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You know, when River is saying, like, who else is coming and she

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does her megalist?

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She should have said the mechanoids.

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Well, got to say, I would have loved the Hartnell version of

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that.

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Can you imagine how that would have gone?

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Dalek, Sensorites, Dravans, Monoids, Malfa, Maya Beast, Dodo.

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Immediately after the opening credits, we head straight into

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something that is shot as a heist, isn't it?

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We see them planning to go to Stonehenge, you know, pulling out

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the maps, intercut with them on the horses heading there. it

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doubles.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And and again, it's just fun.

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Caper, heist, you know, the whole thing is such such an incredible

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adventure.

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Like we very, very quickly are in sort of Indiana Jones mode.

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Absolutely.

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It totally reminded me of you know, the music Murray picks up on

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it.

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The music is very Indiana Jones, but it explicitly casts river in

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the Indiana Jones role, and I think it makes the doctor sort of

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maybe a cross between Marcus, Denim Elliot's character and maybe

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Henry, his dad.

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I mean, it's the most Indiana Jones the Doctor Who's ever been and

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it's just brisk and wonderful.

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I enjoy it so much.

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Like, you know, the stone moving away, the nicely placed torches

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and the big door and yeah, exactly the same thing.

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I just get into this and it looks sensational.

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That underhenge is wonderful.

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I mean, aren't we grateful that we didn't pay one last visit to

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the paper mill.

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It is a thing that we've done before where, you know, there's a

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secret base or something hidden underneath a famous landmark.

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I mean, it's an RTD era thing, but here it's done so well.

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And much like back in the Shakespeare code, Doctor Who was the 1st

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drama, given permission to film at Stonehenge.

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Oh wow.

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And they got one night.

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So the riding up on the horses was done just after sunset to

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indicate dawn, in fact.

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So the idea is when they're then getting underneath at night, in

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story terms, they have been there the whole day setting this up

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and trying to find whatever.

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And the stone that Matt Smith jumps onto, it's a prop stone.

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It's not one of the real ones, but even then they had to get

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permission to put a prop stone in for him to jump onto.

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And it was just apparently this really complex thing.

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And Toby Haynes, the director basically says all the way through.

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I was expecting some hand to come down on my shoulder and say

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right, you've had your time.

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So we just got as much done as humanly possible.

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It was bucketing down.

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So he's like, we only got about half as much time as we wanted and

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we were still grateful of it because they had always intended to

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get as much done there as possible and then build a replica, which

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they called foamhenge.

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I think I saw that in the stones of blood.

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But they made contingencies for shooting at other stone circles

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and writing dialogue as to why it's the roll right stones, for

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instance, rub and stonehenge, but both Toby Haynes and Stephen

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Moffat were like, if we can't get stonehead, what's the point?

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The cache of this show.

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Yeah.

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It's huge isn't it?

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And then we get the Pandorica.

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And I think the Pandora is absolutely classic, Stephen Moffat

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which is kind of a mystery whose answer is hidden in plain sight.

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I agree.

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He does it all the time.

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He does these little lines of dialogue where he misdirects your

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thinking and it's between River and the doctor where they, I don't

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I don't think they say it directly, but it's intimated that

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there's something inside.

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Yeah.

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So you keep thinking that there's something inside rather than

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what actually happens, is somebody's going to be put in there and

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it's very clever.

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And there's another misdirection, isn't there?

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Because we talk about who's in the box and as you said, Todd, we're

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assuming that it's occupied and River has that dialogue about how

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it's being opened from inside.

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And it's that speech, that incredibly beautiful speech that Matt

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gives about a goblin or a trickster who will fall out of the sky

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and tear down your world.

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And who locked him in the box?

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Um, you know, oh, a good wizard did it, the doctor says, and then

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River gets the dialogue.

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You know, I hate good wizards in fairy tales.

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They always end up being him.

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And so for a 2nd we get the idea that he's the one who has or will

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have locked, whatever it is in the box.

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It's Stephen explicitly spelling out what you've been saying all

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season, Nathan, is that he's interested in stories and everything

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about Doctor Who is a story.

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And because this is, the whole thing is a trap, which is conjured

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out of Amy's childhood and Amy's favourite books and things like

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that.

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And she created the Raggedy Man stories.

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And as we'll see next week, she's going to recreate the Raggedy

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Man.

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So it's all about stories becoming manifest.

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It's interesting interesting to say that because like here he

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introduces that Romans are Amy's favourite topic in history and

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Pandora's box is her favourite fairy tale.

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I don't know whether that's been mentioned before.

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Next year, it's going to annoy me. when he does introduce certain

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things like, you know, people that they've known their lifetime

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right?

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But here it works so wonderfully well.

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Yeah, I agree.

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I agree.

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And so we get shots of the doctor saying, who are you?

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Who could you possibly be?

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Which he says several times.

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Yeah, and he's in shot.

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And there is that thing.

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If it's something this big, I would know about it.

250
00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:08.460
And, you know, I don't know what you think about the doctor being

251
00:13:08.460 --> 00:13:14.279
so famous, you know, in this era, in this part of the Moffat era

252
00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:15.539
the doctor's terribly famous.

253
00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:16.860
Everyone knows who he is.

254
00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:22.019
And we've been watching the doctor for a long time, and we feel

255
00:13:22.019 --> 00:13:26.580
like we've got a handle on the universe that he lives in, the

256
00:13:26.580 --> 00:13:27.779
Doctor Who stories.

257
00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:29.220
And so for us as well.

258
00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:31.500
Who could it possibly be in the box?

259
00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:34.139
Surely we would know?

260
00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:35.340
If it's this big?

261
00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:37.259
Is it Fenrick?

262
00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:38.580
Is it the Black Guardian?

263
00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:42.059
You know, it's got to be something that we already know about

264
00:13:42.059 --> 00:13:46.860
because the Doctor Who universe has been filled up over, you know

265
00:13:46.860 --> 00:13:50.039
50 years or whatever. nearly 50 years at this point.

266
00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:53.100
It's more fat playing with fan expectations, isn't it?

267
00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:55.019
But also, is he doing a wordplay?

268
00:13:55.139 --> 00:13:56.460
Who could you possibly be?

269
00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:58.080
Doctor Who could you possibly be?

270
00:13:58.139 --> 00:14:01.500
It's also, you know, obviously Matt's in shot because he's

271
00:14:01.500 --> 00:14:05.279
delivering those lines, but the answer to the question is in shot

272
00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:06.779
as he asks it.

273
00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:13.080
Can you remember when you were watching, if and when you picked, it

274
00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:15.360
was going to be for the doctor?

275
00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:19.919
Or was it a shock when the box opens and there's nothing in

276
00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:20.279
there?

277
00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:21.000
It would shock.

278
00:14:21.059 --> 00:14:23.340
Yeah, I was completely shocked, yeah.

279
00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:24.059
Completely.

280
00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:24.539
Brendan?

281
00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:29.820
Well, my my flatmate and I discussed it after after that and I

282
00:14:29.820 --> 00:14:32.039
said, I thought it was going to be John Sim.

283
00:14:32.100 --> 00:14:34.259
I thought it was going to be the master because we don't know what

284
00:14:34.259 --> 00:14:34.740
happened to him.

285
00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:37.860
Whereas Lee said, oh no, I knew it was the doctor, but I still got

286
00:14:37.860 --> 00:14:38.220
it wrong.

287
00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:41.039
He said, I thought it was going to be Sylvester McCoy because who

288
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:45.240
is the doctor who falls from the sky and tears down your world.

289
00:14:45.299 --> 00:14:46.919
It's Sylvester McCoy.

290
00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:49.620
That would have been a dramatic highlight.

291
00:14:49.980 --> 00:14:52.919
I mean, but it's all of them, though.

292
00:14:52.980 --> 00:14:55.259
You know, think about the pirate planet.

293
00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:59.519
Think about the savages, you know, the doctor drops out of the sky

294
00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:03.899
and blows everything up in episode four. over and over again.

295
00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:09.299
And the doctor has done this so much that that description of him

296
00:15:09.299 --> 00:15:13.200
from the villain's point of view, actually really works.

297
00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:15.299
And that's what Moffatt's all about, isn't he?

298
00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:18.899
Like people having different points of view on things, people's

299
00:15:18.899 --> 00:15:22.620
knowledge being partial, people's memories being imperfect.

300
00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:25.679
All of that stuff is what he's about.

301
00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:29.700
And it's a really interesting idea to look at it from the

302
00:15:29.700 --> 00:15:30.659
villain's point of view.

303
00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:34.379
You actually do side with them in sort of those last scenes coming

304
00:15:34.379 --> 00:15:37.559
up where you've got where you've got Christopher Ryan, who, by the

305
00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:40.440
way, I'm sad that we lost him as kind of our go-to Santarin.

306
00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:42.059
It shouldn't have just been him.

307
00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:45.960
When he is like, you know, we've joined forces because the doctor

308
00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:49.259
destroys our universe. in many ways.

309
00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:50.879
That's really fun to think about.

310
00:15:50.940 --> 00:15:56.700
And the thing is, he, Commander Stark, looks so proud when the

311
00:15:56.700 --> 00:15:58.440
Pandora is closing at the end.

312
00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:02.820
And I'm kind of with you that we've, we've gotten so used to Dan

313
00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:04.740
Starkey being the Santarin.

314
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:08.940
I just remember at the time thinking that, obviously, we hadn't

315
00:16:08.940 --> 00:16:13.200
seen the Santarin, since then, except for one cameo in Doctor 2

316
00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:15.419
and of course, in the Sarah Jane Avengers, where it's always Dan

317
00:16:15.419 --> 00:16:16.019
Starkey.

318
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:18.480
So I was kind of of the opinion that, oh, Christopher Ryan

319
00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:20.039
obviously didn't enjoy working on the show.

320
00:16:20.100 --> 00:16:21.360
But he comes back to do this.

321
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:25.860
And I remember at the time going, sort of being almost pulled out

322
00:16:25.860 --> 00:16:27.659
of the scene going, that's Christopher Ryan.

323
00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:32.700
He's got a very nice line in kind of nodding, going as the doctor

324
00:16:32.700 --> 00:16:34.320
is being put in Pandora.

325
00:16:34.379 --> 00:16:35.940
I approve of this.

326
00:16:36.059 --> 00:16:38.279
That was very good, friend.

327
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:43.259
Hey, I know for a fact that if I'm ever a Doctor Who monster, it's

328
00:16:43.259 --> 00:16:44.820
going to be a Santara, and I've been practising.

329
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:47.879
Peter, you are totally right.

330
00:16:47.940 --> 00:16:51.360
It's a shame that he doesn't come back as a Santarian later on.

331
00:16:51.419 --> 00:16:52.559
Like, he's actually really good.

332
00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.679
But I also like the fact that you've got the big Daypole Daleks

333
00:16:55.679 --> 00:17:00.360
back after them buggering off like earlier on in the season.

334
00:17:00.419 --> 00:17:01.740
You know, what have they been up to?

335
00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:03.899
And I do think it's a shame after this that they're just

336
00:17:03.899 --> 00:17:06.059
completely, basically sidelined and written out.

337
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:09.900
Like I actually quite like the colours and the bigness and the

338
00:17:09.900 --> 00:17:13.140
sort of the 60s filmmic nature of them.

339
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:17.519
But I think it's really great that the Daleks and the cybermen and

340
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:18.480
the Santarans.

341
00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:20.039
Who else gets to speak anybody else?

342
00:17:20.099 --> 00:17:26.819
No, but basically every single kind of monster costume that they

343
00:17:26.819 --> 00:17:28.140
have lying around is there.

344
00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:32.579
And I have to confess that the scene doesn't make any sense.

345
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:37.380
Like if you're trying to kind of make it actually work.

346
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:42.359
You know, if you're, you know, writing a history or editing some

347
00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:46.079
TARDIS Wakia pages or whatever, you're going to be hard pressed to

348
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:46.980
explain what's going on.

349
00:17:46.980 --> 00:17:49.079
Because why are there Silurians there?

350
00:17:49.140 --> 00:17:53.940
You know, how does how do Cyberman even get there?

351
00:17:54.000 --> 00:18:00.720
In RTD's era, RTD was very, very careful to give the Cyberman a

352
00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:05.579
coherent story and to explain how every appearance fit in with

353
00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:06.779
that story.

354
00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:11.460
And he had an eye to the sort of 10 year old fan that he once was

355
00:18:11.460 --> 00:18:15.299
who was going to kind of, you know, make up those stories, you

356
00:18:15.299 --> 00:18:19.140
know, the future David Banks, perhaps, who was going to kind of

357
00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:22.680
tell a coherent story about how the cybermen came to be.

358
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:27.420
And the side men are created in 2006 by Roger Lloyd pack.

359
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:31.200
You know, like, it's, um, it's a definite thing that happens.

360
00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:35.220
Why are they here in 102 AD, like it just doesn't make any sense

361
00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:35.700
at all.

362
00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:39.480
And when the sideman appears, he's literally nothing like any

363
00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:41.099
sideman has ever been before.

364
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:44.940
I just want to say here, like, I, as you know, through this

365
00:18:44.940 --> 00:18:49.380
journey, I've reevaluated Russell Cyberman, and I like them so

366
00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:53.099
much more, but at the time, I had not liked basically all the

367
00:18:53.099 --> 00:18:55.380
Cyberman appearances up to this point.

368
00:18:55.440 --> 00:19:01.019
And I just enjoyed having them being so creepy, that one lone

369
00:19:01.019 --> 00:19:05.819
cyberman with its head coming at Amy and being able to, you know

370
00:19:05.819 --> 00:19:08.819
the dark going into her and then the horrible tentacle things as

371
00:19:08.819 --> 00:19:10.440
it's along the floor.

372
00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:15.900
I just thought, wow, this is scary and he's inventing what they

373
00:19:15.900 --> 00:19:16.319
can do.

374
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:18.960
And I really, really enjoyed it and I enjoyed it again.

375
00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:19.559
Yeah.

376
00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:24.119
He'll do the same with the Daleks in a season or so's time doing a

377
00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:26.099
different take and that's and that's Stephen's thing.

378
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:29.099
But I really like the fact that the 1st time I actually felt that

379
00:19:29.099 --> 00:19:30.420
the cybermen were actually scary.

380
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:33.420
Yeah, in modern Doctor Who.

381
00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.799
So Moffatt's cybermen are dead bodies encased in armour.

382
00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:39.720
Yes. aren't they Yeah.

383
00:19:39.779 --> 00:19:44.940
And I have to say, you know, we've had 3 showrunners for the new

384
00:19:44.940 --> 00:19:45.599
series now.

385
00:19:45.660 --> 00:19:49.079
And when you look at something like the Daleks, even though each

386
00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:51.960
of the showrunners does do something interesting with them, it all

387
00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:55.319
comes back to the same germ of an idea that, you know, the Dalek

388
00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:57.359
is a crazed creature in a tank.

389
00:19:57.420 --> 00:19:58.259
Yeah.

390
00:19:58.259 --> 00:20:03.779
Whereas I do feel that Russell and Stephen and Chris Chipnell have

391
00:20:03.779 --> 00:20:11.700
all come up with different takes on the cybermen that you kind of

392
00:20:11.700 --> 00:20:14.099
go, that is something the other writer didn't do.

393
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:14.640
Yeah.

394
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:18.420
So I remember that scene you're talking about, Todd, with the

395
00:20:18.420 --> 00:20:19.740
snap.

396
00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:23.039
The head kind of biting at Amy, you know.

397
00:20:23.099 --> 00:20:24.480
Which she plays so well.

398
00:20:24.660 --> 00:20:26.519
Like, Karen...

399
00:20:26.579 --> 00:20:28.619
Yeah, that's the thing. is fighting a helmet.

400
00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:29.759
She's amazing.

401
00:20:30.180 --> 00:20:35.160
But I remember at the end of that scene thinking, because Cybermen

402
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:38.700
are my favourite monsters, I'm like, that is better than every

403
00:20:38.700 --> 00:20:42.299
single Cyberman scene we've had up till that point from Russell

404
00:20:42.299 --> 00:20:45.599
and that's not an insult, but that is just, 0 my god, that's

405
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:45.900
amazing.

406
00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:49.380
And I got the same thing from a shard.

407
00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:53.160
I loved the take on a shard in series 12.

408
00:20:53.460 --> 00:20:58.799
So I kind of feel like maybe the showrunners sort of we can't

409
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:00.119
change the Daleks too much.

410
00:21:00.180 --> 00:21:03.180
And like literally Moffat comes in and tries to change the Dalek

411
00:21:03.180 --> 00:21:03.539
design.

412
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:04.380
I'm with you, Todd.

413
00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:07.500
I quite like them, but there's a huge backlash against them and he

414
00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:11.700
backpedals on that furiously and kind of semi-explains it with a

415
00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:13.259
voiceover at the Doctor Who experience.

416
00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:15.660
Of course he does.

417
00:21:16.859 --> 00:21:22.740
Whereas it's almost like the production teams can put a new spin

418
00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:27.960
on the cybermen every time because people aren't invested in

419
00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:28.200
them.

420
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:30.299
They're always looking at the Daleks.

421
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:33.059
So you can do new stuff with assignment.

422
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:36.720
And I think it goes back to Eric Saywad, who brings back the

423
00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:39.420
Cybermen in Earthshock and really interrogates.

424
00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:40.859
Okay, now what makes them scary?

425
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:44.700
And how can I make them as scary as they were in the 60s, but feel

426
00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:47.579
1980s and feel very modern.

427
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:52.500
And yeah, I think it's something you can do with the cybermen.

428
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:57.240
I imagine the temptation would have been, let's have a dalek

429
00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:00.599
guarding the underhenge because if I'm sure Stephen Moffatt's a

430
00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:03.299
fan like us and he'd be going, I need to have a monster guarding

431
00:22:03.299 --> 00:22:03.480
this.

432
00:22:03.539 --> 00:22:08.220
Of course his 1st thought would be Dalek, but instead he goes, no

433
00:22:08.220 --> 00:22:10.740
no, let's have, let's turn this into a horror movie.

434
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:14.220
Let's have a slow moving monster like Jason Voorhees.

435
00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:17.880
That's the thing that people complain about as the Friday the 13th

436
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:18.539
series goes on.

437
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:22.079
Jason turns into this fast, unstoppable killer, whereas in the

438
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:25.920
early films, he's slow and he is just one step at a time coming

439
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:26.400
after you.

440
00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:27.420
And that's the thing.

441
00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:31.440
When Amy gets stunned by the head and says you and whose body, we

442
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:32.400
just hear clump.

443
00:22:32.460 --> 00:22:33.299
Clump.

444
00:22:33.299 --> 00:22:34.079
Clump.

445
00:22:34.140 --> 00:22:37.500
But the fact too is like the cyberman's already dismembered, like

446
00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:40.319
who dismembered the cyberman and you kind of think, well, you know

447
00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:42.599
it's just lying around, nothing really is going to happen, but

448
00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:45.059
then bit by bit, it comes into play.

449
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:49.079
Like even the cyberarm, like with that hilarious moment with Matt

450
00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:50.279
Smith, look at me.

451
00:22:50.339 --> 00:22:51.240
I'm a target.

452
00:22:51.299 --> 00:22:52.380
Was that her?

453
00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:53.099
I can't remember.

454
00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:53.819
No, no, that's it.

455
00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:56.819
And the line before that is something like where he says to Amy

456
00:22:56.819 --> 00:22:58.799
you know how I come up with these brilliant plans.

457
00:22:58.859 --> 00:22:59.759
Well, sorry.

458
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:04.680
And then he runs in and just says that and is so stupid and sort

459
00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:06.900
of wonderful. did that at the shops earlier.

460
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:11.160
I ran down and said, look at me, I'm at Target. have several

461
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:11.940
thoughts about that.

462
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:15.779
I think that the Cyberman have always been a slightly amorphous

463
00:23:15.779 --> 00:23:18.900
enemy and so they've just fitted into whatever the plot needs them

464
00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:22.200
to do, which becomes strength under showrunners who want them to

465
00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:23.579
do different and interesting things.

466
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:28.680
And I think it's nice that Stephen does that rightly trick of

467
00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:32.640
having so many monsters and aliens show up that they're just kind

468
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:35.099
of a horde and we don't get much time with them.

469
00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:39.420
And so he chooses one example earlier in the episode to just do

470
00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:42.900
something interesting with a solitary member of that of that

471
00:23:42.900 --> 00:23:43.259
race.

472
00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:47.880
And also, don't you think that Karen, with the snapping helmet

473
00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:52.980
does the best companion struggling with monster prop that is

474
00:23:52.980 --> 00:23:56.039
supposed to be attacking her, but is actually just being held by

475
00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:58.380
her, since Sarah, in Revenge of the Cyberman.

476
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:04.140
Thanks for that, Brendan.

477
00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:05.460
If you hurt that, everybody.

478
00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:07.980
He's getting attacked by a fake cyber.

479
00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:10.500
I don't know what you're talking about. cockatoo just flew in

480
00:24:10.500 --> 00:24:10.680
here.

481
00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:16.680
My favourite thing that she does is when Matt encourages her to do

482
00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:21.059
what he's just done and run out and draw the arms fire and he does

483
00:24:21.059 --> 00:24:24.539
the thumbs up and she does this sort of terrified I really, really

484
00:24:24.539 --> 00:24:26.519
don't want to do this thumbs up.

485
00:24:26.579 --> 00:24:27.420
It is so good.

486
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:31.559
That whole scene crystallises their relationship for this season.

487
00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:34.019
And I have to say, I've had a bit of an epiphany on Karen.

488
00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:35.819
I always thought she was okay, but I didn't love her.

489
00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:39.119
I think she's just become great through this season.

490
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:42.359
And the sense of fun that they have together and the business that

491
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:45.960
they work out is just really joyous to watch on screen.

492
00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:51.180
And that moment where the doctor says, stay back and, you know

493
00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:52.079
stay undercover.

494
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.740
And she takes sort of 3 steps back with the most pouty reaction

495
00:24:55.740 --> 00:24:57.900
ever is hilarious.

496
00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:02.279
Well, I mean, I'm with you, Peter, and call me a cliche

497
00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:02.940
listeners.

498
00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:06.660
I have not liked her much in the past, but I think her

499
00:25:06.660 --> 00:25:07.920
performances this season.

500
00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:12.839
I can see so much more and she's much, much better, like the

501
00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:15.839
humour she really gets and the danger here, especially in this

502
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:16.200
episode.

503
00:25:16.259 --> 00:25:19.380
So I've grown to really like her over the past few episodes.

504
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.740
But even earlier on, I could see that all happening.

505
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:25.019
So she's grown for me throughout the season even.

506
00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:29.819
If Amy at times is not my favourite person, but I think Karen's

507
00:25:29.819 --> 00:25:31.019
doing a wonderful, wonderful job.

508
00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:32.099
Agreed.

509
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:36.359
So that scene where they confront the cybermen. actually sort of

510
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:42.240
comes in to interrupt a scene where the 2 of them are talking sort

511
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:43.740
of about Rory.

512
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:46.019
So Amy's found the engagement ring.

513
00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:49.619
Well, no, she found the engagement ring last episode.

514
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:52.079
Doesn't he talk about nothing is ever forgotten, not completely?

515
00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:56.579
And at the same time, Rivers going off to get the centurions and

516
00:25:56.579 --> 00:25:57.779
you've got that shadowy figure.

517
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:03.180
So it's all parallel leading up to Rory's introduction at dealing

518
00:26:03.180 --> 00:26:04.019
with the side of them.

519
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:07.440
And what's happening here is that Moffatt is kind of laying out

520
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:11.519
something and it's hard to believe that there isn't a subtext

521
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:12.779
about Doctor Who here.

522
00:26:12.839 --> 00:26:18.480
You know, if it's remembered, it can be brought back, especially

523
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:19.200
with animation.

524
00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:26.279
But you also have this sort of clever thing where there's a fake

525
00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:30.480
out here, because that thing about people turning from stories

526
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:36.779
into reality, turning from memory into actual people, we think

527
00:26:36.779 --> 00:26:41.339
that that's done with once it's explained, Rory.

528
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.240
And what we don't know is that it's going to be the climax of the

529
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:46.980
next episode as well.

530
00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:49.200
I think that stuff's beautiful.

531
00:26:49.259 --> 00:26:50.640
It's very Douglas Adams-y too.

532
00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:53.400
You know, sometimes people fall out of the world and little things

533
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:58.559
get left behind and all that talk about miracles and coincidences

534
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:00.900
and stuff like that, I think, is just classic atoms.

535
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:03.660
It doesn't ever bother you, Amy, that your life doesn't make any

536
00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:03.900
sense.

537
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:04.619
Yeah.

538
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.319
But it's subtle because, well, it's subtle.

539
00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:14.519
It is Stephen giving you a conversation that is setting up next

540
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.460
week and answers that are going to be delivered, even if at this

541
00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:20.579
point in time, you kind of think, oh, Yeah, he's just giving you a

542
00:27:20.579 --> 00:27:24.180
bit of mystery and maybe you don't think twice necessarily about

543
00:27:24.180 --> 00:27:27.000
it, but it's, yeah, it's the joy of his writing.

544
00:27:27.059 --> 00:27:32.819
I think what's super interesting is that we've had the, we had the

545
00:27:32.819 --> 00:27:35.640
duck pond in episode one, which is a duck pond without ducks.

546
00:27:35.700 --> 00:27:36.539
It's empty.

547
00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:37.859
There should be ducks there.

548
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:40.680
We think there ought to be ducks there, but there are no ducks.

549
00:27:40.740 --> 00:27:42.299
There's no one in her house.

550
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:44.579
She says she doesn't have a mum and dad, but we never hear what

551
00:27:44.579 --> 00:27:45.240
happened to them.

552
00:27:45.299 --> 00:27:50.759
We find out kind of what happened to them in the 2nd episode of

553
00:27:50.759 --> 00:27:55.259
the two-part angel story when we discovered that people can be

554
00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:58.799
drawn into the crack and then forgotten by everyone else.

555
00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:02.339
So that's been there again, hiding in plain sight.

556
00:28:02.460 --> 00:28:06.900
And so the doctor is starting to sort of edge towards that.

557
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:10.619
And he's always been aware once he's kind of seen the crack that

558
00:28:10.619 --> 00:28:13.019
that's what's happened to Amy's mom and dad.

559
00:28:13.019 --> 00:28:16.440
And Stephen introduces that in a really interesting way because

560
00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:21.119
part of the writer's job is to segue between plot threads and, you

561
00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:22.380
know, push the narrative on.

562
00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:25.319
And Stephen does this very interesting thing where sometimes he

563
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:28.980
will just have the character stop talking and one character will

564
00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:31.680
deliver the line which pushes them onto the next scene.

565
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:33.000
And Matt does that in that scene.

566
00:28:33.059 --> 00:28:34.980
The doctor does it, where they've been talking about something

567
00:28:34.980 --> 00:28:35.940
completely different.

568
00:28:35.940 --> 00:28:40.500
And the doctor just looks at Amy after a short gap and says

569
00:28:40.500 --> 00:28:44.220
doesn't it ever worry you that your life doesn't make sense?

570
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:47.099
And so he just puts it straight out there rather than being clever

571
00:28:47.099 --> 00:28:48.900
with the way that they transition to it.

572
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:52.259
I think that's the last line of that scene, isn't it, before the

573
00:28:52.259 --> 00:28:53.099
sidemen appears?

574
00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:57.000
I think that that's where that ends. think you're right.

575
00:28:57.059 --> 00:29:02.460
Well, Rory ends the cyberman. he says he's Amy, and then, of

576
00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:05.759
course, the doctor comes in for another hilarious moment.

577
00:29:05.819 --> 00:29:07.319
Like, you know, how have you been?

578
00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:08.339
Yeah, good, good.

579
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:09.660
And what?

580
00:29:09.660 --> 00:29:10.140
No, is that?

581
00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:10.619
No, sorry.

582
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:13.440
He comes in and talks to Rory about missing the obvious and goes

583
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:13.740
out.

584
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:15.299
Do you like that?

585
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:18.059
Do you think it's a little bit overdone?

586
00:29:18.059 --> 00:29:19.019
Is it Com?

587
00:29:19.740 --> 00:29:21.059
Yeah, it's slightly over egged.

588
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:25.019
I think though the reason it works is Arthur Darville's

589
00:29:25.019 --> 00:29:25.740
reactions.

590
00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:27.839
He's great, isn't he, Brendan?

591
00:29:27.900 --> 00:29:29.160
Just his reactions to all of that.

592
00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:31.680
But then when the doctor comes back and it's, oh, hello, how have

593
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:33.539
you been good, Roman, you know, blah, blah.

594
00:29:33.539 --> 00:29:36.119
But like the absolute sitcom moment.

595
00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:38.519
Firstly, he calls him Rory twice before he notices that he's

596
00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:38.700
there.

597
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:42.180
And he talks about not being someone who misses the obvious.

598
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:46.200
He goes out of shot and then drops something noisily.

599
00:29:46.259 --> 00:29:47.279
So there's a crash.

600
00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:50.519
And doesn't Rory give sort of a little nod to himself?

601
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:52.740
And then he comes back in.

602
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.440
Then he pushes Rory with one finger.

603
00:29:55.500 --> 00:30:00.480
And Rory goes back and then forward and you can hear the leather

604
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:02.940
of his armour creaking.

605
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:04.920
It's so great.

606
00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:06.180
It's so funny.

607
00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:10.920
Maybe Mario for does it with his sort of little comedy music that

608
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:11.519
comes in there.

609
00:30:11.579 --> 00:30:15.660
But I love the fact after we've just had a lot of tension and a

610
00:30:15.660 --> 00:30:16.500
big dramatic moment.

611
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:19.680
Then Stephen just, you know, turns things 180 degrees and suddenly

612
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:22.559
you've got a comedy moment, which sort of breaks the tension and

613
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:27.960
and and you're reintroducing the wonderful Arthur Darville back

614
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:28.500
into the cars.

615
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:30.299
And that's the thing about Stephen.

616
00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:32.220
People miss this about his writing.

617
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:35.579
They think he's all about sort of big ideas and clever tricks.

618
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:37.319
He's also just hilarious.

619
00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:39.779
He writes really funny scenes.

620
00:30:39.900 --> 00:30:40.920
Yeah, yeah.

621
00:30:40.980 --> 00:30:41.819
All the way through this.

622
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.700
I was just sort of super aware of how funny everything is.

623
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:49.200
I love, you know, very early on, even in the pre-credits teaser

624
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:53.279
where the doctor goes 102 AM. no wait, 102 p.m.

625
00:30:53.339 --> 00:30:57.480
Oh, right, 102 AD. And like, it's not just funny.

626
00:30:57.539 --> 00:30:58.380
It's clever.

627
00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:00.059
Like, would you have thought of it?

628
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:04.619
And I just, you know, that experience of being wowed by how smart

629
00:31:04.619 --> 00:31:08.519
dialogue is, is something that I've been missing, I think.

630
00:31:08.579 --> 00:31:10.799
Doctor Who is always funny when it does the Romans.

631
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:16.200
Even the eaters of light, but that wasn't funny.

632
00:31:16.259 --> 00:31:16.799
Ha ha.

633
00:31:16.859 --> 00:31:18.480
Oh god.

634
00:31:18.539 --> 00:31:20.700
I like the eating.

635
00:31:20.700 --> 00:31:22.019
Yeah, I do too, Tom.

636
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:23.700
I do not.

637
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:24.299
But anyway.

638
00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:39.539
What about the shop where Matt is on Stonehenge talking to all of

639
00:31:39.539 --> 00:31:44.099
the aliens in the sky and all of those spaceships and the way that

640
00:31:44.099 --> 00:31:47.279
he's shot with the wind and what and how he's delivering it as

641
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:48.539
well, Nathan?

642
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:50.220
It's so amazing.

643
00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:53.220
It's such an odd choice, the way that he does it.

644
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:55.500
It's nothing that you would predict, I think.

645
00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:01.019
I gather that it was Toby Haines, who said to Stephen Moffatt, how

646
00:32:01.019 --> 00:32:04.259
about we do it like he is in the middle of Wembley?

647
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:09.720
Yeah, he, he, this isn't just the doctor telling off the

648
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:10.259
villains.

649
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:13.079
This is the doctor realising that the villains are his captive

650
00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:17.700
audience and just in performing it in that way, the doctor is

651
00:32:17.700 --> 00:32:21.420
saying, no, no, no, I'm in control, even though you've got all

652
00:32:21.420 --> 00:32:24.480
your ships up there, and all your guns, none of you are fired yet

653
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:25.380
and there's a reason for that.

654
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:26.460
I'm in control.

655
00:32:26.519 --> 00:32:26.940
Thank you.

656
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:28.500
And he's not.

657
00:32:28.619 --> 00:32:29.759
No.

658
00:32:29.819 --> 00:32:33.059
I mean, because there are sort of spotlights and stuff, which are

659
00:32:33.059 --> 00:32:36.900
sort of practical lights, presumably intending to be lights from

660
00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:38.279
the spaceships and stuff.

661
00:32:38.339 --> 00:32:42.599
And there's wind and kind of rain and stuff like that.

662
00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:44.700
So he's having to shout all over that.

663
00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:47.339
And he pauses while he's talking.

664
00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:51.660
There's 2 incredible moments, which is where he does the I am

665
00:32:51.660 --> 00:32:55.920
talking and they all stop and the camera pulls up.

666
00:32:55.980 --> 00:32:59.940
It's above and it pulls up into the sky and we see him getting

667
00:32:59.940 --> 00:33:01.259
smaller and smaller.

668
00:33:01.259 --> 00:33:06.720
And then the very end where he drops that loud kind of shouting

669
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:11.220
over a Wembley crowd delivery and just says, let someone else be

670
00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:15.779
the 1st try in his kind of normal sort of register.

671
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:17.099
Things so good.

672
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:19.200
It's so visually striking as well.

673
00:33:19.259 --> 00:33:23.220
I mean, you can imagine in the 80s under a director like Ron Jones

674
00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:26.039
a bunch of spaceships above Stonehenge Waller dog talks would have

675
00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:31.799
looked execrable. whereas Ron Jones, we have Peter Moffatt there

676
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:33.660
as well. better and better.

677
00:33:34.140 --> 00:33:38.519
The decision just to represent those spaceships by basically close

678
00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:42.420
encounter style lights. sort of moving above absolutely makes the

679
00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:42.779
scene.

680
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:46.380
And of course, Stephen's been looking to give Matt these wonderful

681
00:33:46.380 --> 00:33:48.000
speeches all season.

682
00:33:48.059 --> 00:33:50.640
He gave him one in the 11th hour, which obviously worked

683
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:51.420
brilliantly.

684
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:52.859
He gets one in the angels.

685
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:56.940
He's been searching as a child of the Hinchcliffe era, and as the

686
00:33:56.940 --> 00:33:58.319
Ark in Space, his favourite story.

687
00:33:58.380 --> 00:34:03.119
He's been searching to give Matt really good indomitable speeches

688
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:04.440
and here he just does it again.

689
00:34:04.500 --> 00:34:06.240
Did you imagine?

690
00:34:06.299 --> 00:34:08.460
David Tennant doing this one?

691
00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:12.360
You know, I don't think David Tennant would have failed at this

692
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:15.780
but it would have been just vastly less interesting.

693
00:34:17.099 --> 00:34:21.480
Someone else try fast, apples and pears, apples and pears.

694
00:34:21.539 --> 00:34:25.500
It is it is interesting that like Stephen comes back to that

695
00:34:25.500 --> 00:34:26.099
point.

696
00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:30.059
Let someone else try first. like back in the library to part of

697
00:34:30.059 --> 00:34:30.599
last season.

698
00:34:30.659 --> 00:34:33.420
Like, I'm the doctor, look me up, you know, and they sort of back

699
00:34:33.420 --> 00:34:37.320
off, and it's something that he now continues to use quite often

700
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:42.119
where the villains, you know, when the doctor look me up, or, or

701
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:45.840
or, is that the, um, what does River say about him in silence in

702
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:50.880
the library or Forest of the Dead, where he could turn whole

703
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:53.699
armies away with a single word or something like that?

704
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:55.739
Well, that sort of relates to here.

705
00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:56.400
They do turn away.

706
00:34:56.460 --> 00:34:58.860
Stop, but really they've got something else up their sleeve.

707
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:00.539
Yes, that's the other thing too.

708
00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:02.760
It's so beautifully delivered that we actually think he's

709
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:07.380
triumphed, but it turns out they were playing him all along.

710
00:35:07.500 --> 00:35:09.000
I love that line.

711
00:35:09.059 --> 00:35:11.880
Everything that ever hated you is coming here tonight.

712
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:14.039
Not Mary Whitehouse or Lala Walk, though.

713
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:17.760
Not even dodo.

714
00:35:18.059 --> 00:35:21.300
To be fair, we hated that.

715
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:22.800
The doctor just tolerated that.

716
00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:44.880
There's a heartrending bit at the end where he says, Did she miss

717
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:45.239
me?

718
00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:48.719
and the doctor's just like, um...

719
00:35:48.780 --> 00:35:51.239
Yeah, his reaction is amazing.

720
00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:55.380
Yeah, the gutted look on Rory's face is just incredible.

721
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:59.219
And Karen comes in and does an incredible comedy performance as

722
00:35:59.219 --> 00:35:59.519
well.

723
00:35:59.579 --> 00:36:02.940
You know, like she's all loose limbed and stuff because she's kind

724
00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:05.579
of coming off the drugs or whatever.

725
00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:08.039
But she's got a very Edina monsoon vibe.

726
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:11.039
Comes in is super dismissive.

727
00:36:11.099 --> 00:36:16.800
You know, like he's kind of horny for Romans visibly in front of

728
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:17.519
Rory.

729
00:36:17.579 --> 00:36:20.820
And she's got that very Amy dialogue where she says, thanks for

730
00:36:20.820 --> 00:36:22.440
the swordie, nice swordie.

731
00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:25.079
I don't think that's the 1st time Rory's ever heard that.

732
00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:31.860
Yeah, you're right, Nathan. she really is doing a great job there

733
00:36:31.860 --> 00:36:35.039
as the supporting player in that scene without you really thinking

734
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:36.599
about what she's actually doing.

735
00:36:36.659 --> 00:36:40.440
It's actually really selling, how distressed he is about the whole

736
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:40.559
thing.

737
00:36:40.619 --> 00:36:41.579
Yeah, that's right.

738
00:36:41.639 --> 00:36:45.659
She's completely kind of more or less unaware of him or absolutely

739
00:36:45.659 --> 00:36:49.320
dismissive of him in this sort of comedy way, which makes it worse

740
00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:50.579
for Rory, I think.

741
00:36:50.699 --> 00:36:55.920
And then when we do move above ground and it moves totally away

742
00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:59.880
from comedy, it's heartbreaking in the writing, but Karen also

743
00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:02.940
plays it so well where she just starts crying and doesn't know

744
00:37:02.940 --> 00:37:03.420
why.

745
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:06.119
It really got to me when I was watching it.

746
00:37:06.179 --> 00:37:07.079
Yeah, yeah.

747
00:37:07.380 --> 00:37:11.579
That whole, that whole plot is so affecting.

748
00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:16.920
And again, the genius of Stephen Moffat is you think it's going to

749
00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:22.800
go in a very maudlin direction of Rory, you know, pontificating

750
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.079
about why Amy doesn't remember it, blah, blah.

751
00:37:25.139 --> 00:37:28.619
And Stephen Moffat is just like, I'm not interested in that.

752
00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:29.880
No one's interested in that.

753
00:37:29.940 --> 00:37:32.099
The doctor says, shut up and go talk to her.

754
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:35.159
And Rory's like, but why am I here?

755
00:37:35.219 --> 00:37:35.760
What happened to me?

756
00:37:35.820 --> 00:37:38.099
And the doctor's just like, I don't care.

757
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:39.599
You're here.

758
00:37:39.659 --> 00:37:41.820
That's a wonderful thing.

759
00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:42.719
Shut up and accept it.

760
00:37:42.780 --> 00:37:47.880
And to get back to what you were saying earlier, Nathan, and to

761
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:48.780
use one of your phrases.

762
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:50.460
So when you were talking about how does this fit in with

763
00:37:50.460 --> 00:37:53.519
cybercontinuity, to use one of your phrases, I don't care about

764
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:53.820
that.

765
00:37:54.179 --> 00:37:57.780
And the 10 year old at home doesn't care about that.

766
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:02.039
The 10-year-old at home is going to go. theres Daleks, and there's

767
00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:04.440
cybermen, and there's autons, and there's a hoix.

768
00:38:04.500 --> 00:38:05.820
I love them.

769
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:07.139
Is there a steak?

770
00:38:07.260 --> 00:38:08.219
I loved the hooks.

771
00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:09.719
You know, there was also Spirit-ons.

772
00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:10.619
We just couldn't see that.

773
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:12.900
And Vizians.

774
00:38:14.099 --> 00:38:17.039
They asked refusians, but they refused.

775
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:20.940
Oh, dear.

776
00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:25.800
But that's the, see, Stephen Moffatt kind of goes down the root of

777
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:31.139
saying, I've explained well enough how this could possibly have

778
00:38:31.139 --> 00:38:31.860
happened.

779
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:34.500
Now let's get back to the human story.

780
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:36.599
And that's it.

781
00:38:36.659 --> 00:38:41.280
I mean, he's telling Roy to shut up because he has seen that Amy

782
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:45.239
loves Rory and it was in question at the beginning of the season

783
00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:46.980
but it's not in question now.

784
00:38:47.099 --> 00:38:51.659
And so he says shut up, go up there and kind of, you know, get her

785
00:38:51.659 --> 00:38:52.320
really.

786
00:38:52.380 --> 00:38:54.539
And that's kind of the subtext of that.

787
00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:58.079
He's super confident that Rory's able to win her back.

788
00:38:58.139 --> 00:39:03.480
And part of the tragedy of that whole scene is that Amy is too

789
00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:04.380
confident as well.

790
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:08.880
Amy, earlier in the season, talked Professor Brieswell in victory

791
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:13.679
of the Daleks around and sort of made him human again through the

792
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:17.519
power of her emotion, and she tries the same thing with Rory, and

793
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:20.340
she's confident that she'll succeed and she doesn't.

794
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:21.000
Yeah.

795
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:21.719
Yeah.

796
00:39:21.780 --> 00:39:27.480
I mean, we said earlier this season that the bit after Hungry

797
00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:32.099
Earth and cold blood, that that's where the relationship has gone

798
00:39:32.099 --> 00:39:35.340
horribly wrong, where her decision to flee has had terrible

799
00:39:35.340 --> 00:39:37.019
consequences.

800
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:40.860
And, you know, she doesn't even remember Rory anymore.

801
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:45.300
And so the natural arc is for that to be fixed.

802
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:48.599
You know, we have to be waiting for the other shooter drop at that

803
00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:49.440
point in the season.

804
00:39:49.500 --> 00:39:52.679
And so doing the thing.

805
00:39:52.739 --> 00:39:55.440
It's an absolute episode 12 thing, isn't it?

806
00:39:55.500 --> 00:39:58.320
where that looks like it's going to be resolved only to be

807
00:39:58.320 --> 00:39:59.039
snatched away.

808
00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:00.719
Yeah.

809
00:40:00.780 --> 00:40:07.320
And it's also, this becomes a troop of Stephen Moffatt to do

810
00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:13.860
something really horrendous to the characters in the finale or the

811
00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:14.820
penultimate episode.

812
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:16.019
So, you know, here.

813
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:19.260
Rory shoots Amy.

814
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:19.860
Yeah, yeah.

815
00:40:19.860 --> 00:40:23.099
And basically kills her.

816
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:26.639
And, you know, we're gonna get these throughout Moffatt's tenure.

817
00:40:26.699 --> 00:40:31.679
And I don't quite know.

818
00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:37.800
It feels like I should want to switch off the television at that

819
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:38.039
moment.

820
00:40:38.099 --> 00:40:39.659
But I don't.

821
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:42.599
There is something about the writing and the performance that

822
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:46.440
makes me go, okay, that's horrible, but I want to see where this

823
00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:46.920
goes next.

824
00:40:46.980 --> 00:40:51.719
And we have it right up until Bill gets turned into a cyberman in

825
00:40:51.719 --> 00:40:57.780
world enough in time. that it's a sickening moment, but you're

826
00:40:57.780 --> 00:40:59.880
like, I need to know how this turns out.

827
00:40:59.940 --> 00:41:04.860
I mean, she spends decades down there with the master.

828
00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:09.719
Like I, I think Moffatt's playing a kind of knife edge game that

829
00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:12.659
clearly doesn't work for a lot of people.

830
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:17.099
And it's because he's writing in this storybook register where the

831
00:41:17.099 --> 00:41:22.559
characters perform plot functions and deliver funny lines, but you

832
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:27.360
can't kind of interrogate how they would feel.

833
00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:29.280
And it's part of a problem with Doctor Who, right?

834
00:41:29.340 --> 00:41:33.300
Right from the point where Billy Piper gets hit in the face by an

835
00:41:33.300 --> 00:41:36.179
adherent of the repeated meme and knocked unconscious and locked

836
00:41:36.179 --> 00:41:36.840
in a room.

837
00:41:36.900 --> 00:41:45.059
You know, why would someone who is as realistic as her in rose

838
00:41:45.059 --> 00:41:48.360
ever travel with a doctor again after that's happened to her?

839
00:41:48.420 --> 00:41:53.159
So no one really works as a real person in the Doctor Who world?

840
00:41:53.219 --> 00:41:58.860
But Moffat pushes that further than most people would like, I

841
00:41:58.860 --> 00:41:59.280
think.

842
00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:03.659
And we'll see that next year, I think he flubs it a few times.

843
00:42:03.719 --> 00:42:05.340
He goes too far next year.

844
00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:05.880
Yeah.

845
00:42:05.940 --> 00:42:08.460
Isn't she what you say about that moment in end of the world

846
00:42:08.460 --> 00:42:08.880
Nathan?

847
00:42:08.940 --> 00:42:12.480
Because that was the actual scene where New Doctor Who became

848
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:13.500
Doctor Who for me.

849
00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:16.980
It felt like, you know, the companion's just been clobbered and

850
00:42:16.980 --> 00:42:20.219
put in a room to die by lightning coming through the walls.

851
00:42:21.059 --> 00:42:25.019
I think it's an artefact of Moffat having been raised on the

852
00:42:25.019 --> 00:42:30.300
Hinchcliffe era. because he saw how strong Sarah was companion and

853
00:42:30.300 --> 00:42:33.840
everything that was thrown at Sarah Jane and he's kind of he's

854
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:36.659
that's in his subconscious and that's what he does with

855
00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:37.260
companions.

856
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:41.880
And I think we said that Sarah Jane didn't work for us in ways for

857
00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:43.320
that reason as a character.

858
00:42:43.380 --> 00:42:47.400
The performances, you know, impeccable and we love Sarah Jane to

859
00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:50.039
death, but like why is she still travelling with a doctor?

860
00:42:50.099 --> 00:42:51.539
She ceased to become a real person.

861
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:52.500
Yeah, yeah.

862
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:55.500
And I don't think Moffatt wants these people to be real people.

863
00:42:55.559 --> 00:42:59.460
I think they're sitcom characters and I think that it works on a

864
00:42:59.460 --> 00:43:02.940
kind of sitcom logic, that, you know, there's the male lead and

865
00:43:02.940 --> 00:43:05.039
the female lead and all of that sort of thing.

866
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:11.340
So I don't, I'm not as upset as people might be by Rory shooting

867
00:43:11.340 --> 00:43:14.760
Amy, but that might just be because it's the 1st time he pulls

868
00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:15.119
this.

869
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:16.440
Yeah, yeah.

870
00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:18.659
And that's the thing, I'm not upset about it, but I feel like I

871
00:43:18.659 --> 00:43:19.079
should be.

872
00:43:19.139 --> 00:43:20.280
You know what I mean?

873
00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:21.480
And that's the thing.

874
00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:24.360
I'm not even that upset when we get to Bill.

875
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:27.780
I hate the bill things. so much.

876
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:30.960
But I think that's possibly because of the way it's resolved.

877
00:43:31.019 --> 00:43:32.039
Yeah.

878
00:43:32.099 --> 00:43:32.880
You know.

879
00:43:32.940 --> 00:43:36.599
Where, whereas Nathan, I know, for instance, for a fact that you

880
00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:38.940
were, you were quite upset with Darkwater Death in heaven.

881
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:39.539
Yes.

882
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:40.199
Yeah.

883
00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:40.739
Yeah.

884
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:45.119
But again, I think that's a really, really good 2 parter, and I

885
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:48.059
just remember feeling an absolute sense of dread all the way

886
00:43:48.059 --> 00:43:49.199
through dark water.

887
00:43:49.260 --> 00:43:53.519
And if there is, I think, just because Danny's death is so

888
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:55.800
terrible, you know, so awful.

889
00:43:55.860 --> 00:43:57.960
I think it's the worst death in Doctor Who.

890
00:43:58.019 --> 00:44:01.019
Like the most upsetting death, I think, in Doctor Who.

891
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:06.539
But it's kind of that Stephen Moffatt is operating at a register

892
00:44:06.539 --> 00:44:13.139
where it's impossible to read those companions as people, you know

893
00:44:13.139 --> 00:44:17.699
and it's a feature of the show, but Moffatt sort of turns it up to

894
00:44:17.699 --> 00:44:18.300
11, I think.

895
00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:21.239
And is it interesting that Moffat's not interested in

896
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:23.159
interrogating that, but Russell is.

897
00:44:23.219 --> 00:44:27.900
And so we have those scenes in Army of Ghosts where Jackie talks

898
00:44:27.900 --> 00:44:31.380
to Rose and tells her that she's becoming a storybook character

899
00:44:31.380 --> 00:44:34.079
tells her you're not going to be a real person anymore.

900
00:44:34.139 --> 00:44:37.260
You're just going to be some woman walking through a market on an

901
00:44:37.260 --> 00:44:38.880
alien planet and you won't be you.

902
00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:40.559
You'll be a space person.

903
00:44:40.619 --> 00:44:41.340
Correct.

904
00:44:54.119 --> 00:45:00.059
Speaking of space people, we do have the whole Rory shoots Amy

905
00:45:00.059 --> 00:45:03.420
intercut with Rivers' dilemma.

906
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:08.880
Yeah. and her whole discovery of Amy's house and her room and the

907
00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:12.539
figures and the books on the Romans and the Pandorica and all of

908
00:45:12.539 --> 00:45:15.179
that leading into the final few minutes.

909
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:17.400
I'm just going back to what Brendan said where he doesn't really

910
00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:20.880
feel like upset at Rory killing Amy.

911
00:45:20.940 --> 00:45:24.179
I'm sort of similar because it's intercut with the doctor getting

912
00:45:24.179 --> 00:45:28.920
put in the Pandorica, rivers, rivers getting trapped in the TARDIS

913
00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:30.300
and all these things are happening.

914
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:33.659
And so I feel like all of these things are going to be resolved.

915
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:35.099
Like I don't, she's not going to remain dead.

916
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:37.980
The doctor's not going to remain trapped in the doctor.

917
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:39.179
All these questions are going to be answered.

918
00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:42.059
And I think they are in the next episode.

919
00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:46.860
So, I guess jumping back to River for a bit. you know, and what

920
00:45:46.860 --> 00:45:47.639
she's discovering.

921
00:45:47.699 --> 00:45:52.920
It's interesting how he's writing her into the TARDIS, sort of

922
00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:57.239
putting her in the side plot, perhaps jumping ahead like the next

923
00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:00.480
week, but getting rid of her, but she's still discovering all

924
00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:01.739
these important plot points.

925
00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:02.280
Yeah.

926
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:07.019
Do you do you think the burn marks outside Amy's house are Daleks

927
00:46:07.019 --> 00:46:07.860
have landed?

928
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:08.400
Yeah.

929
00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:10.980
Like, so that's like in remembrance of the Daleks.

930
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:11.340
Yeah.

931
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:13.019
So the Daleks have landed.

932
00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:16.440
They've gone upstairs to a bedroom, they've read all of her books

933
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:18.420
you know, they've gone through the photo collection.

934
00:46:18.480 --> 00:46:20.699
Who is Nancy Drew?

935
00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:26.519
A couple of them through flew in through the skylight like they

936
00:46:26.519 --> 00:46:27.360
did with Adelaide.

937
00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:32.820
It's so great that he gives them such a preposterous non-science

938
00:46:32.820 --> 00:46:33.659
fiction job.

939
00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:37.139
You know, it could have been anyone else, but it's the daleks who

940
00:46:37.139 --> 00:46:39.840
are rummaging through Amy's stuff. you know in her bedroom.

941
00:46:39.900 --> 00:46:43.019
Daleks do not understand, choose your own adventure.

942
00:46:44.219 --> 00:46:47.400
It's interesting you say that because I don't think the 1st time

943
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:49.860
through it registered, there were burn marks there, that they were

944
00:46:49.860 --> 00:46:53.099
even Daleks, that the house had been ransacked by whatever

945
00:46:53.099 --> 00:46:53.699
monsters.

946
00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:55.860
Yeah, a part of the alliance.

947
00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:58.380
But it's interesting how like you've got the books on Roman.

948
00:46:58.440 --> 00:46:59.159
And so that's come true.

949
00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:02.219
And you've got the Pandoraca's box and that's in the Pandoraca.

950
00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:03.780
But then you've got the picture of Rory.

951
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:09.239
Now, if he's been erased from time, like, would have ever existed

952
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:11.460
that picture, I'm a bit confused by that one point.

953
00:47:11.519 --> 00:47:18.659
So did they go there before he got erased or doesn't the doctor

954
00:47:18.659 --> 00:47:21.960
say people fall out of the world, but things get left behind?

955
00:47:22.019 --> 00:47:27.059
Okay, so again, Stephen is actually explaining the cracks perhaps

956
00:47:27.059 --> 00:47:30.119
in his plot away through lines always one step ahead of us.

957
00:47:30.179 --> 00:47:31.019
That's right.

958
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:34.980
And it's something that I think only when you come back to rewatch

959
00:47:34.980 --> 00:47:38.579
his episodes, is that you pick up on all of these things and often

960
00:47:38.579 --> 00:47:41.639
in the moment, because there's so much wonderful dialogue and

961
00:47:41.639 --> 00:47:42.179
things going on.

962
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:43.199
You miss.

963
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:45.900
Well, I do anyway, miss little bits and pieces around and think, Oh

964
00:47:45.900 --> 00:47:47.579
has he explained all of that?

965
00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:49.019
I'm a bit, you know, you know what?

966
00:47:49.019 --> 00:47:52.139
You know what I'm like, where I want everything sign sealed and

967
00:47:52.139 --> 00:47:55.199
delivered in a bow, and it actually is all there in plain sight

968
00:47:55.199 --> 00:47:56.940
when you go back and rewatch it.

969
00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:01.139
Won't you be lucky next week for the series, though one of Amy's

970
00:48:01.139 --> 00:48:04.079
favourite childhood books was Doctor Who in an exciting adventure

971
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:04.800
with the Daleks.

972
00:48:05.699 --> 00:48:09.539
Also tell what you said about, everything is kind of answered.

973
00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:12.599
Do we ever get an answer for why the TARDIS is blowing up?

974
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:14.159
Or is it just for space reasons?

975
00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:17.099
It is I think it is just for space reasons.

976
00:48:18.059 --> 00:48:23.639
There are throwaway comedy lines in time of the doctor. where he

977
00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:26.219
kind of realises that he never explained it.

978
00:48:26.219 --> 00:48:31.079
And so there's something about, oh, I don't know, the silence or

979
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:31.380
something.

980
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:36.480
And it's surprising how little that matters.

981
00:48:36.539 --> 00:48:39.539
I think this two-part finale is triumphant.

982
00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:42.539
Central to it is the TARDIS exploding.

983
00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:46.800
And it looks like it's going to be the silence because we get a

984
00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:52.800
voice on the screen saying silence will fall, but series 6 never

985
00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:53.940
really resolves it either.

986
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:54.659
No.

987
00:48:54.719 --> 00:49:00.360
I also think this cliffhanger is a product of having to follow on

988
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:02.159
from Russell.

989
00:49:02.219 --> 00:49:06.360
So, you know, Stephen knows that he's being handed an incredibly

990
00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:10.440
popular show, but he also knows from all of his experience in

991
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:14.219
television that it would be very easy to fumble it and get it

992
00:49:14.219 --> 00:49:17.579
wrong, which is why he follows Russell's structure so much this

993
00:49:17.579 --> 00:49:18.000
season.

994
00:49:18.059 --> 00:49:20.280
But I think for this cliffhanger.

995
00:49:20.340 --> 00:49:24.000
He's looking back at Russell's last big season cliffhanger, which

996
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:25.800
is the stolen earth.

997
00:49:25.860 --> 00:49:28.440
And so the cliffhanger for the stolen earth.

998
00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:31.260
The doctor is regenerating in the TARDIS.

999
00:49:31.320 --> 00:49:36.059
Sarah has almost run over some Daleks in her, Nissan Figaro, and

1000
00:49:36.059 --> 00:49:37.139
now she's going to get shot.

1001
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:38.280
That'll never not be funny.

1002
00:49:40.019 --> 00:49:46.320
Gwen and Yanto are unloading submachine guns into a Dalek while

1003
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:49.559
screaming, you know, everyone is in some form of danger.

1004
00:49:49.619 --> 00:49:52.980
So Moffatt is like, I need to put everyone in some form of danger

1005
00:49:52.980 --> 00:49:57.659
but I don't have 2 spinoffs worth of characters to put in danger.

1006
00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:00.840
So the doctor's being locked in a box that we know takes several

1007
00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:04.619
hours to open and can only open if it feels like it and there's a

1008
00:50:04.619 --> 00:50:05.760
bunch of monsters outside.

1009
00:50:05.820 --> 00:50:07.619
River is in the Tardus.

1010
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:11.219
She's locked in there and it's exploding and we don't know what is

1011
00:50:11.219 --> 00:50:11.699
happening.

1012
00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:15.659
And Amy is dead and Rory is an auton.

1013
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:19.440
Oh, and by the way, every star in the universe is blowing up at

1014
00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:24.300
every point in its history, fade to black, cliffhanger scream, no

1015
00:50:24.300 --> 00:50:26.219
next time trailer, titles.

1016
00:50:26.280 --> 00:50:28.920
Get out of that one, whoever writes the next episode.

1017
00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:31.619
That sounds like a good.

1018
00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:33.659
Oh my god, it's so good.

1019
00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:34.860
It's so ambitious.

1020
00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:38.340
And the special effect of all the stars exploding.

1021
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:42.059
The last thing we see is earth and we fade to black and the music

1022
00:50:42.059 --> 00:50:43.980
is interrupted by that.

1023
00:50:44.039 --> 00:50:45.840
It's so well done.

1024
00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:47.760
And is the stars fading?

1025
00:50:47.820 --> 00:50:49.619
Does that look like Van Gogh painting?

1026
00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:51.119
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1027
00:50:51.179 --> 00:50:52.019
Yeah, a little bit.

1028
00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:55.199
The stars are all kind of swirling and stuff like that.

1029
00:50:55.260 --> 00:50:58.320
I can't even say Metala oriensis.

1030
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:01.860
It's incredible.

1031
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:04.860
I hope that tracking comes back in the reset.

1032
00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:07.559
But you are right.

1033
00:51:07.619 --> 00:51:10.199
Like, you know, all of that going to black and just having the

1034
00:51:10.199 --> 00:51:12.960
earth, it's sort of a bit of a mirror of like when we come in.

1035
00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:13.980
Yeah.

1036
00:51:13.980 --> 00:51:16.079
The shots that always come into earth at the beginning of

1037
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:19.619
Russell's and even this season with Stephen Moffatt.

1038
00:51:19.739 --> 00:51:23.039
It's now it's sort of the pull back and it's just this little

1039
00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:23.699
dot.

1040
00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:27.420
Very evocative shot, just earth left by itself and a sea of

1041
00:51:27.420 --> 00:51:27.719
blackness.

1042
00:51:27.780 --> 00:51:31.320
But I love the fact that there are all those different

1043
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:32.460
cliffhangers to resolve.

1044
00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:37.199
And you're quite right, Brendan, you know, how can Stephen compete

1045
00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:39.059
with what Russell's done before?

1046
00:51:39.059 --> 00:51:42.300
And here you go, people, here are all my multiple cliffhangers and

1047
00:51:42.300 --> 00:51:45.960
hopefully you'll like at least one of them to come back or more

1048
00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:46.619
than one.

1049
00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:49.199
And can we make a mention for how beautifully it's shot?

1050
00:51:49.260 --> 00:51:53.460
Toby Haynes is fantastic throughout the episode, but in particular

1051
00:51:53.460 --> 00:51:56.820
the cliffhanger and the buildup is so beautifully put together.

1052
00:51:56.880 --> 00:52:00.239
All of those wonderful, slightly slow motion scenes with River and

1053
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:03.480
the Tartars intercut with the doctor being dragged into the

1054
00:52:03.480 --> 00:52:06.539
Pandorica and Rory holding Amy.

1055
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:08.340
I mean, it's just superbly shot.

1056
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:11.340
But isn't the inside of the Pandoraca like a blue green colour?

1057
00:52:11.400 --> 00:52:14.219
Like it's a slightly different whiting and in some of the shots

1058
00:52:14.219 --> 00:52:17.699
Matt looks absolutely stunning like the way in which he's actually

1059
00:52:17.699 --> 00:52:18.239
framed.

1060
00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:21.780
I think, yeah, you're totally right, Peter, the direction and the

1061
00:52:21.780 --> 00:52:24.119
lighting in that is just utterly superb.

1062
00:52:24.179 --> 00:52:26.039
There's another shot wrong in the entire episode.

1063
00:52:26.099 --> 00:52:27.119
It's just masterfully done.

1064
00:52:54.179 --> 00:52:56.940
Well, they listen to that's all we have time for this week.

1065
00:52:57.059 --> 00:52:58.739
We'll be back next week.

1066
00:52:58.860 --> 00:53:03.059
If there is a next week, to try and work out what in God's name is

1067
00:53:03.059 --> 00:53:05.340
going on in the Big Bang.

1068
00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:09.059
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1069
00:53:09.059 --> 00:53:11.699
and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook

1070
00:53:11.699 --> 00:53:14.579
at FDE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website

1071
00:53:14.579 --> 00:53:17.159
FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other

1072
00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:19.980
podcasts, Bondfinger, and Jody Interterra.

1073
00:53:20.099 --> 00:53:24.480
Until next time, please remember your training about Doctor Song's

1074
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:25.920
hallucinogenic lipstick.

1075
00:53:25.980 --> 00:53:29.760
We only just kissed you 2 minutes ago, and already you imagine

1076
00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:32.880
that we've been droning on about this silly TV show for more than

1077
00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:34.380
210 episodes.

1078
00:53:34.500 --> 00:53:37.440
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1079
00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:38.639
Kiss kiss.

1080
00:53:38.699 --> 00:53:39.300
See you soon.

1081
00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:40.019
Good night.

1082
00:53:43.739 --> 00:53:47.519
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd Building, Nathan

1083
00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:49.559
Bottomley, Peter Griffiths and Brendan Jones.

1084
00:53:49.619 --> 00:53:51.480
Theme arrangement by Cameron Ladd.

1085
00:53:51.539 --> 00:53:55.860
This episode, Space Reasons, was recorded on the 9th of May 2020

1086
00:53:55.860 --> 00:53:57.719
and released on the 30th of May.

1087
00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:03.420
Now that the universe has been destroyed, a post-credits joke

1088
00:54:03.420 --> 00:54:04.980
seems somehow inappropriate.

1089
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:08.760
So instead, let me thank the many guests who joined us this series

1090
00:54:08.760 --> 00:54:12.900
Stephen from New to Who, Kevin Bernard, Col Solito, Simon Moore

1091
00:54:12.900 --> 00:54:16.739
Karen Carpenter, Johnny Spandrel, Eric Stadnick, Fiona Tomney, Jack

1092
00:54:16.739 --> 00:54:18.420
Shanahan, and Joe Ford.

1093
00:54:18.480 --> 00:54:20.219
We'll see you next week.

1094
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:21.659
I think that's it.

1095
00:54:21.719 --> 00:54:22.380
What do you think?

1096
00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:24.119
It's good discussion.

1097
00:54:24.179 --> 00:54:25.679
Yeah, that was so good.

1098
00:54:25.739 --> 00:54:26.699
There's so much to say.

1099
00:54:26.760 --> 00:54:29.880
It's so good I will give you the link, but someone at a convention

1100
00:54:29.880 --> 00:54:31.619
made Sylveste to do the...

1101
00:54:31.619 --> 00:54:33.420
Yeah, someone else do our 1st speech.

1102
00:54:33.420 --> 00:54:34.800
And it's actually quite good.

1103
00:54:34.860 --> 00:54:38.699
Like, it's it's actually madder because it's silver sight

1104
00:54:38.699 --> 00:54:39.000
reading.

1105
00:54:39.059 --> 00:54:42.719
It's like he's drunk or something, you know, like, there's

1106
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:46.739
something, you know, like, he really is sort of selling the, I've

1107
00:54:46.739 --> 00:54:50.340
got nothing left to lose thing and he's doing his sort of weird

1108
00:54:50.340 --> 00:54:52.739
posh boy accent and stuff like that.

1109
00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:57.059
And he changes his, he changes his delivery, so he slows things

1110
00:54:57.059 --> 00:55:00.059
down and then speeds things up and delivers things in a staccato

1111
00:55:00.059 --> 00:55:00.960
way sometimes.

1112
00:55:01.019 --> 00:55:02.159
So good.

1113
00:55:02.219 --> 00:55:06.420
I think later on they give him sort of things that we know Matt

1114
00:55:06.420 --> 00:55:08.400
Smith can do in the scripts.

1115
00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:12.119
And I always think that's a shame because what Matt Smith can do

1116
00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:15.059
is something you've never seen before.

1117
00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:19.139
And, you know, I think eventually I think they just sort of turn

1118
00:55:19.139 --> 00:55:22.920
to sort of, you know, Matt Smithy things, you know, I felt the

1119
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:26.400
speech in Rings of Ackerton, which is supposed to be like this

1120
00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:29.880
absolutely falls flat and is sort of super embarrassing, really.

1121
00:55:29.940 --> 00:55:31.860
And again, Colin's done a version of that.

1122
00:55:31.980 --> 00:55:34.380
In that case it's actually much better.

1123
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:35.519
Well, I can imagine.

1124
00:55:35.579 --> 00:55:36.179
I can imagine.

1125
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:40.980
Mainly because to hear Colin Baker performing as his doctor and

1126
00:55:40.980 --> 00:55:43.800
most of that speech is quite erudite, but then to hear Colin Baker

1127
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:46.440
saying, you take it all, baby.

1128
00:55:48.059 --> 00:55:50.400
John Pertley said that once.

1129
00:55:51.179 --> 00:55:53.159
That's not that again.

1130
00:55:53.219 --> 00:55:54.480
No, no.

1131
00:55:54.539 --> 00:55:56.699
Well, I like the rings of maggot.

1132
00:55:56.760 --> 00:55:57.360
Yeah, yeah.

1133
00:55:57.900 --> 00:55:59.760
Colin was David Troughton's flat mate.

1134
00:55:59.820 --> 00:56:00.539
Just saying.

1135
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:02.940
All right.

1136
00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:04.679
I'll stop recording.

1137
00:56:04.739 --> 00:56:05.579
Hang on.

1138
00:56:05.579 --> 00:56:06.840
Do you want to do the outro?

1139
00:56:06.900 --> 00:56:07.199
Oh, yeah.

1140
00:56:07.260 --> 00:56:08.099
Do we do the outro?

1141
00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:08.699
forget that.

1142
00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:09.780
We have an outro.

1143
00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:11.880
We want to talk about the title a bit as well.

1144
00:56:11.940 --> 00:56:13.679
I really love the fact it's a verb title.

1145
00:56:13.739 --> 00:56:16.380
Well, no, no, it's not a verb. a sentence.

1146
00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:20.280
So, yeah, it's not just a verb phrase. a full sentence.

1147
00:56:20.340 --> 00:56:22.199
So we have verb phrases like kill the moon.

1148
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:25.860
Um, and let's kill hit, well, let's kill hit.

1149
00:56:25.860 --> 00:56:26.579
The doctor dances.

1150
00:56:26.639 --> 00:56:28.980
Well, that's its 1st one that's a sentence, I think.

1151
00:56:29.039 --> 00:56:30.239
Isn't it?

1152
00:56:30.300 --> 00:56:32.159
Yeah, I think you might be wrong.

1153
00:56:32.219 --> 00:56:35.280
Don't shoot the pianist is obviously a sentence, but that's a

1154
00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:35.880
single episode.

1155
00:56:35.940 --> 00:56:38.519
We should have had more of those in the classic series.

1156
00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:40.380
Yes, well, let's kill Delta.

1157
00:56:41.639 --> 00:56:43.739
Bring it on, baby.

1158
00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:44.820
Maimon pursues.

1159
00:56:45.300 --> 00:56:47.460
We did all...

1160
00:56:47.460 --> 00:56:50.880
We did almost have There a doctor in the horse?

1161
00:56:50.940 --> 00:56:52.860
Yes, he did.

1162
00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:53.820
That would have been great.

1163
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:57.119
What's all roads lead to a nightmare?

1164
00:56:57.179 --> 00:56:59.760
Yeah, yeah, that's a sentence and the nightmare begins as a

1165
00:56:59.760 --> 00:57:00.119
sentence.

1166
00:57:00.179 --> 00:57:02.519
Yeah, we did more often than we think, do we?

1167
00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:05.940
Well, no story titles, I don't think, but certainly episode

1168
00:57:05.940 --> 00:57:06.599
titles.

1169
00:57:06.659 --> 00:57:07.440
Yeah.

1170
00:57:07.559 --> 00:57:11.460
Yeah, but I think the doctor dances are the 1st one that's a

1171
00:57:11.460 --> 00:57:12.659
thing.

1172
00:57:12.719 --> 00:57:17.039
Yeah, it was like when attached was a Star Trek.

1173
00:57:17.099 --> 00:57:17.519
Yeah.

1174
00:57:17.579 --> 00:57:21.179
When attached was a Star Trek title and I thought, oh, adjective.

1175
00:57:21.239 --> 00:57:22.920
Well, maybe it's a verb.

1176
00:57:22.980 --> 00:57:23.460
Okay.

1177
00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:25.139
All right, here goes.

1178
00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:30.059
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.