WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:00:07 1 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:47.939 Hello, dear listener and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast which spends an inordinate amount of time thinking and talking about the invasion of the hot Italians. 2 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:49.560 Or is that just me? 3 00:00:49.619 --> 00:00:51.240 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:51.299 --> 00:00:52.020 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:52.079 --> 00:00:52.859 I'm Todd. 6 00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:53.520 I'm Peter. 7 00:00:53.579 --> 00:00:56.579 Well, it's episode 12, and you know what that means. 8 00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:02.520 Any number of celebrity guests cameos swiftly followed by the imminent destruction of the entire universe. 9 00:01:02.579 --> 00:01:12.780 But since it looks like we're planning to actually follow through this year, we must have only about an hour left to discuss what happens when the Pandorica opens. 10 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:50.099 This is an episode 12, and over the past sort of 4 years or so, not counting the specials. 11 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:53.640 We've been trained to expect certain things from episode 12. 12 00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:55.799 Does this do them, do we think? 13 00:01:56.340 --> 00:01:59.519 We have 7 minutes of pre-credit sequence? 14 00:01:59.579 --> 00:02:00.719 Have we had that before? 15 00:02:00.780 --> 00:02:03.239 No, that is a special thing, isn't it? 16 00:02:03.420 --> 00:02:05.459 I adore it actually. 17 00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:06.359 Yeah, yeah. 18 00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:10.800 I remember this was the 1st full season I saw when I was living in the UK. 19 00:02:10.860 --> 00:02:16.740 I remember sitting in my house in London with my flatmate who was also a big Doctor Who fan. 20 00:02:16.800 --> 00:02:24.060 Hello, Lee Thompson, and just our jaws getting progressively lower with, oh my god, it's Liz Ted. 21 00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:25.319 Oh my god, it's River song. 22 00:02:25.379 --> 00:02:26.699 Oh my god, it's Winston Churchill. 23 00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:27.599 Oh my god, it's Vincent. 24 00:02:27.659 --> 00:02:28.919 And I think I just did them in reverse order. 25 00:02:28.979 --> 00:02:32.699 But yeah, it was gobsmacking. 26 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:36.539 After about the 2nd one, you're thinking they're going, oh my god, are they going to do everyone? 27 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:49.080 It's the 1st time that Stephen Mothat does that kind of cutting between vignettes breathlessly in a teaser and Russell did it in 2008 with the stolen earth and it worked so well. 28 00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:51.419 I was a little bit disappointed that we didn't get more. 29 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:57.719 I mean, where was Cully from the 11th hour or Air Kiss guy from football guy from the Lodger? 30 00:02:57.780 --> 00:02:59.159 You know, I wanted them all back. 31 00:02:59.219 --> 00:03:00.360 But it was amazing. 32 00:03:00.539 --> 00:03:05.699 It is different though, isn't it, from that stolen earth thing? 33 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:16.620 Because the stolen earth is set in a universe that's been carefully built up over 4 years and the RTD finales generally tend to put us back in that world. 34 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:23.699 So they're always at least partly set on earth in the present day in this sort of well-known world. 35 00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:28.560 But Moffat doesn't create a universe for the doctor to have his adventures in. 36 00:03:28.620 --> 00:03:31.259 Moffat is telling a series of Doctor Who stories. 37 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:36.360 And so what we get instead is little bits of the previous stories that we've had this year. 38 00:03:36.419 --> 00:03:38.580 And I think they're marvellous. 39 00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:41.639 And I think I think that what he does is this caper. 40 00:03:41.699 --> 00:03:48.419 It's like it's a caper about a painting, a Van Gogh painting, a lost Van Gogh painting. 41 00:03:48.419 --> 00:03:51.060 And, you know, we're tracing it. 42 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:55.319 We don't see the painting until the very, very, very last moment. 43 00:03:55.379 --> 00:03:58.199 We hear about the painting. 44 00:03:58.259 --> 00:04:00.900 We trace River Song's adventures. 45 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:09.060 All of that sort of stuff and it's so light and fun and funny, despite the clear stakes, which are made absolutely clear at the end. 46 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:11.280 It is very funny. 47 00:04:11.340 --> 00:04:21.899 I mean, it gets, you know, the big blue guy turning up that whole sequence with, you know, the vortex manipulator off the wrist of handsome time agent. 48 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:23.459 Which is Captain Jack, right? 49 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:26.040 He grew one back. 50 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:33.180 Oh, so it's not back to like the doctor getting his hand chopped off as well. 51 00:04:33.240 --> 00:04:34.620 I didn't think about that as well. 52 00:04:34.980 --> 00:04:37.259 And then the whole, what does she put in his drink, Nathan? 53 00:04:37.319 --> 00:04:38.759 Oh, micro explosives. 54 00:04:38.819 --> 00:04:42.420 And he takes a quick sip and then asks what micro explosives. 55 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:44.759 So perfect. 56 00:04:44.819 --> 00:04:48.899 Totally river stealing that from Princess Lia in return of the Jedi. 57 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:50.579 He's holding a thermal detonator. 58 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:53.339 And let's face it, Dorian's not unlike jab of the heart. 59 00:04:53.939 --> 00:05:10.319 My favourite bit is the pretty young guard who she sort of misses Robinson's and seducers and that limp, you know, sort of stick figure that he then thinks is with the sort of big hair. 60 00:05:10.379 --> 00:05:12.300 It's just, it's so fun. 61 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:14.519 It's so incredibly fun. 62 00:05:14.579 --> 00:05:18.899 Yeah, and then and then, of course, to cut to Amy and the doctor. 63 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:25.199 Like, you know, 4 minutes into that teaser and, you know, the hollow sweetie, the 1st recorded words in history. 64 00:05:25.259 --> 00:05:26.160 I mean, really. 65 00:05:26.220 --> 00:05:31.139 And then, and then the Roman Legion and, you know, what is he, he's mistaken for what, Caesar? 66 00:05:31.139 --> 00:05:34.740 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. because of her lipstick. 67 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:36.720 She's Cleopatra. 68 00:05:36.779 --> 00:05:39.660 I mean, it's just it's just such a romp. 69 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:41.399 It's it's absolutely wonderful. 70 00:05:41.459 --> 00:05:44.579 It's light and fun and it's clearly going places. 71 00:05:44.699 --> 00:05:45.660 Yeah, yeah. 72 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:48.120 Notice how River has escalated her. 73 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:50.339 Hello, sweetie, every time she's appeared. 74 00:05:50.459 --> 00:05:52.800 So the 1st time it was on the psychic paper. 75 00:05:52.860 --> 00:05:58.019 The 2nd time it sort of carved into the black box of the Byzantium. 76 00:05:58.019 --> 00:06:01.620 And then, you know, the 3rd time it's now carved on a giant cliff. 77 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:05.399 And the 2 it says hello, sweetie, there at the top. 78 00:06:05.459 --> 00:06:13.740 And then there's Theta Sigma. are the 1st 2 characters in the 2nd row, and then there's some coordinates or whatever the hell it is. 79 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:15.720 But it's just so fun. 80 00:06:15.779 --> 00:06:18.779 And I think that computer-generated planet looks awesome. 81 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:21.060 It is the 1st time they've... 82 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:32.879 Oh, there's a planet, isn't there, in Army of Ghosts, where they visit, just in the teaser, for like, you know, I, the erode says I never want to leave the doctor, and it's similarly spectacular, because they only have to do it for the one shot. 83 00:06:32.939 --> 00:06:33.899 Yeah. 84 00:06:33.899 --> 00:06:46.920 But even then, you know, that is like a rocky planet so they can get David and Billy to stand on that rocky beach that becomes Bad Wolf Bay as well and dinosaurs on a spaceship and just CGI in St. 85 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:47.279 Rocks. 86 00:06:47.339 --> 00:06:50.579 But this is lush, hopefully not aggressive vegetation. 87 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:53.579 It reminds me of mechanism. 88 00:06:54.300 --> 00:06:56.220 Well, what doesn't? 89 00:06:56.759 --> 00:07:04.079 But it's absolutely a sort of terry nation style dalek jungle planet with giant fungoids. 90 00:07:04.139 --> 00:07:05.759 He missed a beat there. 91 00:07:05.819 --> 00:07:09.360 You know, when River is saying, like, who else is coming and she does her megalist? 92 00:07:09.420 --> 00:07:10.740 She should have said the mechanoids. 93 00:07:11.220 --> 00:07:15.060 Well, got to say, I would have loved the Hartnell version of that. 94 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:16.620 Can you imagine how that would have gone? 95 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:22.439 Dalek, Sensorites, Dravans, Monoids, Malfa, Maya Beast, Dodo. 96 00:07:37.500 --> 00:07:43.620 Immediately after the opening credits, we head straight into something that is shot as a heist, isn't it? 97 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:53.759 We see them planning to go to Stonehenge, you know, pulling out the maps, intercut with them on the horses heading there. it doubles. 98 00:07:53.819 --> 00:07:54.360 Yeah. 99 00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:55.860 Yeah. 100 00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:58.500 And and again, it's just fun. 101 00:07:58.620 --> 00:08:03.360 Caper, heist, you know, the whole thing is such such an incredible adventure. 102 00:08:03.420 --> 00:08:06.899 Like we very, very quickly are in sort of Indiana Jones mode. 103 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:07.980 Absolutely. 104 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:10.920 It totally reminded me of you know, the music Murray picks up on it. 105 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:25.740 The music is very Indiana Jones, but it explicitly casts river in the Indiana Jones role, and I think it makes the doctor sort of maybe a cross between Marcus, Denim Elliot's character and maybe Henry, his dad. 106 00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:32.159 I mean, it's the most Indiana Jones the Doctor Who's ever been and it's just brisk and wonderful. 107 00:08:32.220 --> 00:08:33.720 I enjoy it so much. 108 00:08:33.779 --> 00:08:41.100 Like, you know, the stone moving away, the nicely placed torches and the big door and yeah, exactly the same thing. 109 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:44.759 I just get into this and it looks sensational. 110 00:08:44.820 --> 00:08:46.919 That underhenge is wonderful. 111 00:08:46.980 --> 00:08:50.340 I mean, aren't we grateful that we didn't pay one last visit to the paper mill. 112 00:08:52.860 --> 00:09:00.059 It is a thing that we've done before where, you know, there's a secret base or something hidden underneath a famous landmark. 113 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:03.659 I mean, it's an RTD era thing, but here it's done so well. 114 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:11.460 And much like back in the Shakespeare code, Doctor Who was the 1st drama, given permission to film at Stonehenge. 115 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:12.419 Oh wow. 116 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:14.519 And they got one night. 117 00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:23.460 So the riding up on the horses was done just after sunset to indicate dawn, in fact. 118 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:32.100 So the idea is when they're then getting underneath at night, in story terms, they have been there the whole day setting this up and trying to find whatever. 119 00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:37.080 And the stone that Matt Smith jumps onto, it's a prop stone. 120 00:09:37.139 --> 00:09:43.740 It's not one of the real ones, but even then they had to get permission to put a prop stone in for him to jump onto. 121 00:09:43.740 --> 00:09:46.620 And it was just apparently this really complex thing. 122 00:09:46.620 --> 00:09:49.379 And Toby Haynes, the director basically says all the way through. 123 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:53.759 I was expecting some hand to come down on my shoulder and say, right, you've had your time. 124 00:09:53.820 --> 00:09:56.340 So we just got as much done as humanly possible. 125 00:09:56.399 --> 00:09:57.899 It was bucketing down. 126 00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:10.919 So he's like, we only got about half as much time as we wanted and we were still grateful of it because they had always intended to get as much done there as possible and then build a replica, which they called foamhenge. 127 00:10:11.340 --> 00:10:14.220 I think I saw that in the stones of blood. 128 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:30.480 But they made contingencies for shooting at other stone circles and writing dialogue as to why it's the roll right stones, for instance, rub and stonehenge, but both Toby Haynes and Stephen Moffat were like, if we can't get stonehead, what's the point? 129 00:10:30.539 --> 00:10:32.759 The cache of this show. 130 00:10:32.820 --> 00:10:33.480 Yeah. 131 00:10:33.539 --> 00:10:34.860 It's huge isn't it? 132 00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:37.559 And then we get the Pandorica. 133 00:10:37.620 --> 00:10:47.159 And I think the Pandora is absolutely classic, Stephen Moffat, which is kind of a mystery whose answer is hidden in plain sight. 134 00:10:47.220 --> 00:10:48.480 I agree. 135 00:10:48.539 --> 00:10:50.159 He does it all the time. 136 00:10:50.220 --> 00:11:00.720 He does these little lines of dialogue where he misdirects your thinking and it's between River and the doctor where they, I don't, I don't think they say it directly, but it's intimated that there's something inside. 137 00:11:00.779 --> 00:11:01.620 Yeah. 138 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:08.700 So you keep thinking that there's something inside rather than what actually happens, is somebody's going to be put in there and it's very clever. 139 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:11.159 And there's another misdirection, isn't there? 140 00:11:11.220 --> 00:11:22.500 Because we talk about who's in the box and as you said, Todd, we're assuming that it's occupied and River has that dialogue about how it's being opened from inside. 141 00:11:23.399 --> 00:11:35.159 And it's that speech, that incredibly beautiful speech that Matt gives about a goblin or a trickster who will fall out of the sky and tear down your world. 142 00:11:35.220 --> 00:11:37.860 And who locked him in the box? 143 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:43.139 Um, you know, oh, a good wizard did it, the doctor says, and then River gets the dialogue. 144 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:45.299 You know, I hate good wizards in fairy tales. 145 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:46.919 They always end up being him. 146 00:11:46.980 --> 00:11:55.559 And so for a 2nd we get the idea that he's the one who has or will have locked, whatever it is in the box. 147 00:11:55.620 --> 00:12:04.799 It's Stephen explicitly spelling out what you've been saying all season, Nathan, is that he's interested in stories and everything about Doctor Who is a story. 148 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:13.980 And because this is, the whole thing is a trap, which is conjured out of Amy's childhood and Amy's favourite books and things like that. 149 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:17.759 And she created the Raggedy Man stories. 150 00:12:17.820 --> 00:12:20.879 And as we'll see next week, she's going to recreate the Raggedy Man. 151 00:12:20.940 --> 00:12:23.159 So it's all about stories becoming manifest. 152 00:12:23.220 --> 00:12:34.200 It's interesting interesting to say that because like here he introduces that Romans are Amy's favourite topic in history and Pandora's box is her favourite fairy tale. 153 00:12:34.259 --> 00:12:37.740 I don't know whether that's been mentioned before. 154 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:45.419 Next year, it's going to annoy me. when he does introduce certain things like, you know, people that they've known their lifetime, right? 155 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:47.519 But here it works so wonderfully well. 156 00:12:47.580 --> 00:12:49.139 Yeah, I agree. 157 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:49.799 I agree. 158 00:12:49.860 --> 00:12:54.960 And so we get shots of the doctor saying, who are you? 159 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:56.519 Who could you possibly be? 160 00:12:56.580 --> 00:12:57.960 Which he says several times. 161 00:12:58.019 --> 00:12:59.940 Yeah, and he's in shot. 162 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:01.259 And there is that thing. 163 00:13:01.379 --> 00:13:04.379 If it's something this big, I would know about it. 164 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:15.539 And, you know, I don't know what you think about the doctor being so famous, you know, in this era, in this part of the Moffat era, the doctor's terribly famous. 165 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:16.860 Everyone knows who he is. 166 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:27.779 And we've been watching the doctor for a long time, and we feel like we've got a handle on the universe that he lives in, the Doctor Who stories. 167 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:29.220 And so for us as well. 168 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:31.500 Who could it possibly be in the box? 169 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:34.139 Surely we would know? 170 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:35.340 If it's this big? 171 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:37.259 Is it Fenrick? 172 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:38.580 Is it the Black Guardian? 173 00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:50.039 You know, it's got to be something that we already know about because the Doctor Who universe has been filled up over, you know, 50 years or whatever. nearly 50 years at this point. 174 00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:53.100 It's more fat playing with fan expectations, isn't it? 175 00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:55.019 But also, is he doing a wordplay? 176 00:13:55.139 --> 00:13:56.460 Who could you possibly be? 177 00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:58.080 Doctor Who could you possibly be? 178 00:13:58.139 --> 00:14:06.779 It's also, you know, obviously Matt's in shot because he's delivering those lines, but the answer to the question is in shot as he asks it. 179 00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:15.360 Can you remember when you were watching, if and when you picked, it was going to be for the doctor? 180 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:20.279 Or was it a shock when the box opens and there's nothing in there? 181 00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:21.000 It would shock. 182 00:14:21.059 --> 00:14:23.340 Yeah, I was completely shocked, yeah. 183 00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:24.059 Completely. 184 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:24.539 Brendan? 185 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:32.039 Well, my my flatmate and I discussed it after after that and I said, I thought it was going to be John Sim. 186 00:14:32.100 --> 00:14:34.740 I thought it was going to be the master because we don't know what happened to him. 187 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:38.220 Whereas Lee said, oh no, I knew it was the doctor, but I still got it wrong. 188 00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:45.240 He said, I thought it was going to be Sylvester McCoy because who is the doctor who falls from the sky and tears down your world. 189 00:14:45.299 --> 00:14:46.919 It's Sylvester McCoy. 190 00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:49.620 That would have been a dramatic highlight. 191 00:14:49.980 --> 00:14:52.919 I mean, but it's all of them, though. 192 00:14:52.980 --> 00:14:55.259 You know, think about the pirate planet. 193 00:14:55.320 --> 00:15:03.899 Think about the savages, you know, the doctor drops out of the sky and blows everything up in episode four. over and over again. 194 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:13.200 And the doctor has done this so much that that description of him from the villain's point of view, actually really works. 195 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:15.299 And that's what Moffatt's all about, isn't he? 196 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:22.620 Like people having different points of view on things, people's knowledge being partial, people's memories being imperfect. 197 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:25.679 All of that stuff is what he's about. 198 00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:30.659 And it's a really interesting idea to look at it from the villain's point of view. 199 00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:40.440 You actually do side with them in sort of those last scenes coming up where you've got where you've got Christopher Ryan, who, by the way, I'm sad that we lost him as kind of our go-to Santarin. 200 00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:42.059 It shouldn't have just been him. 201 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:49.259 When he is like, you know, we've joined forces because the doctor destroys our universe. in many ways. 202 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:50.879 That's really fun to think about. 203 00:15:50.940 --> 00:15:58.440 And the thing is, he, Commander Stark, looks so proud when the Pandora is closing at the end. 204 00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:04.740 And I'm kind of with you that we've, we've gotten so used to Dan Starkey being the Santarin. 205 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:16.019 I just remember at the time thinking that, obviously, we hadn't seen the Santarin, since then, except for one cameo in Doctor 2, and of course, in the Sarah Jane Avengers, where it's always Dan Starkey. 206 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:20.039 So I was kind of of the opinion that, oh, Christopher Ryan obviously didn't enjoy working on the show. 207 00:16:20.100 --> 00:16:21.360 But he comes back to do this. 208 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:27.659 And I remember at the time going, sort of being almost pulled out of the scene going, that's Christopher Ryan. 209 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:34.320 He's got a very nice line in kind of nodding, going as the doctor is being put in Pandora. 210 00:16:34.379 --> 00:16:35.940 I approve of this. 211 00:16:36.059 --> 00:16:38.279 That was very good, friend. 212 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:44.820 Hey, I know for a fact that if I'm ever a Doctor Who monster, it's going to be a Santara, and I've been practising. 213 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:47.879 Peter, you are totally right. 214 00:16:47.940 --> 00:16:51.360 It's a shame that he doesn't come back as a Santarian later on. 215 00:16:51.419 --> 00:16:52.559 Like, he's actually really good. 216 00:16:52.679 --> 00:17:00.360 But I also like the fact that you've got the big Daypole Daleks back after them buggering off like earlier on in the season. 217 00:17:00.419 --> 00:17:01.740 You know, what have they been up to? 218 00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:06.059 And I do think it's a shame after this that they're just completely, basically sidelined and written out. 219 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:13.140 Like I actually quite like the colours and the bigness and the sort of the 60s filmmic nature of them. 220 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:18.480 But I think it's really great that the Daleks and the cybermen and the Santarans. 221 00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:20.039 Who else gets to speak anybody else? 222 00:17:20.099 --> 00:17:28.140 No, but basically every single kind of monster costume that they have lying around is there. 223 00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:32.579 And I have to confess that the scene doesn't make any sense. 224 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:37.380 Like if you're trying to kind of make it actually work. 225 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:46.980 You know, if you're, you know, writing a history or editing some TARDIS Wakia pages or whatever, you're going to be hard pressed to explain what's going on. 226 00:17:46.980 --> 00:17:49.079 Because why are there Silurians there? 227 00:17:49.140 --> 00:17:53.940 You know, how does how do Cyberman even get there? 228 00:17:54.000 --> 00:18:06.779 In RTD's era, RTD was very, very careful to give the Cyberman a coherent story and to explain how every appearance fit in with that story. 229 00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:22.680 And he had an eye to the sort of 10 year old fan that he once was, who was going to kind of, you know, make up those stories, you know, the future David Banks, perhaps, who was going to kind of tell a coherent story about how the cybermen came to be. 230 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:27.420 And the side men are created in 2006 by Roger Lloyd pack. 231 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:31.200 You know, like, it's, um, it's a definite thing that happens. 232 00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:35.700 Why are they here in 102 AD, like it just doesn't make any sense at all. 233 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:41.099 And when the sideman appears, he's literally nothing like any sideman has ever been before. 234 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:55.380 I just want to say here, like, I, as you know, through this journey, I've reevaluated Russell Cyberman, and I like them so much more, but at the time, I had not liked basically all the Cyberman appearances up to this point. 235 00:18:55.440 --> 00:19:10.440 And I just enjoyed having them being so creepy, that one lone cyberman with its head coming at Amy and being able to, you know, the dark going into her and then the horrible tentacle things as it's along the floor. 236 00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:16.319 I just thought, wow, this is scary and he's inventing what they can do. 237 00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:18.960 And I really, really enjoyed it and I enjoyed it again. 238 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:19.559 Yeah. 239 00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:26.099 He'll do the same with the Daleks in a season or so's time doing a different take and that's and that's Stephen's thing. 240 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:30.420 But I really like the fact that the 1st time I actually felt that the cybermen were actually scary. 241 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:33.420 Yeah, in modern Doctor Who. 242 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.799 So Moffatt's cybermen are dead bodies encased in armour. 243 00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:39.720 Yes. aren't they Yeah. 244 00:19:39.779 --> 00:19:45.599 And I have to say, you know, we've had 3 showrunners for the new series now. 245 00:19:45.660 --> 00:19:57.359 And when you look at something like the Daleks, even though each of the showrunners does do something interesting with them, it all comes back to the same germ of an idea that, you know, the Dalek is a crazed creature in a tank. 246 00:19:57.420 --> 00:19:58.259 Yeah. 247 00:19:58.259 --> 00:20:14.099 Whereas I do feel that Russell and Stephen and Chris Chipnell have all come up with different takes on the cybermen that you kind of go, that is something the other writer didn't do. 248 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:14.640 Yeah. 249 00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:19.740 So I remember that scene you're talking about, Todd, with the snap. 250 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:23.039 The head kind of biting at Amy, you know. 251 00:20:23.099 --> 00:20:24.480 Which she plays so well. 252 00:20:24.660 --> 00:20:26.519 Like, Karen... 253 00:20:26.579 --> 00:20:28.619 Yeah, that's the thing. is fighting a helmet. 254 00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:29.759 She's amazing. 255 00:20:30.180 --> 00:20:45.900 But I remember at the end of that scene thinking, because Cybermen are my favourite monsters, I'm like, that is better than every single Cyberman scene we've had up till that point from Russell, and that's not an insult, but that is just, 0 my god, that's amazing. 256 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:49.380 And I got the same thing from a shard. 257 00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:53.160 I loved the take on a shard in series 12. 258 00:20:53.460 --> 00:21:00.119 So I kind of feel like maybe the showrunners sort of we can't change the Daleks too much. 259 00:21:00.180 --> 00:21:03.539 And like literally Moffat comes in and tries to change the Dalek design. 260 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:04.380 I'm with you, Todd. 261 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:13.259 I quite like them, but there's a huge backlash against them and he backpedals on that furiously and kind of semi-explains it with a voiceover at the Doctor Who experience. 262 00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:15.660 Of course he does. 263 00:21:16.859 --> 00:21:28.200 Whereas it's almost like the production teams can put a new spin on the cybermen every time because people aren't invested in them. 264 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:30.299 They're always looking at the Daleks. 265 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:33.059 So you can do new stuff with assignment. 266 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:39.420 And I think it goes back to Eric Saywad, who brings back the Cybermen in Earthshock and really interrogates. 267 00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:40.859 Okay, now what makes them scary? 268 00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:47.579 And how can I make them as scary as they were in the 60s, but feel 1980s and feel very modern. 269 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:52.500 And yeah, I think it's something you can do with the cybermen. 270 00:21:52.559 --> 00:22:03.480 I imagine the temptation would have been, let's have a dalek guarding the underhenge because if I'm sure Stephen Moffatt's a fan like us and he'd be going, I need to have a monster guarding this. 271 00:22:03.539 --> 00:22:10.740 Of course his 1st thought would be Dalek, but instead he goes, no, no, let's have, let's turn this into a horror movie. 272 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:14.220 Let's have a slow moving monster like Jason Voorhees. 273 00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:18.539 That's the thing that people complain about as the Friday the 13th series goes on. 274 00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:26.400 Jason turns into this fast, unstoppable killer, whereas in the early films, he's slow and he is just one step at a time coming after you. 275 00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:27.420 And that's the thing. 276 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:32.400 When Amy gets stunned by the head and says you and whose body, we just hear clump. 277 00:22:32.460 --> 00:22:33.299 Clump. 278 00:22:33.299 --> 00:22:34.079 Clump. 279 00:22:34.140 --> 00:22:45.059 But the fact too is like the cyberman's already dismembered, like who dismembered the cyberman and you kind of think, well, you know, it's just lying around, nothing really is going to happen, but then bit by bit, it comes into play. 280 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:50.279 Like even the cyberarm, like with that hilarious moment with Matt Smith, look at me. 281 00:22:50.339 --> 00:22:51.240 I'm a target. 282 00:22:51.299 --> 00:22:52.380 Was that her? 283 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:53.099 I can't remember. 284 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:53.819 No, no, that's it. 285 00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:58.799 And the line before that is something like where he says to Amy, you know how I come up with these brilliant plans. 286 00:22:58.859 --> 00:22:59.759 Well, sorry. 287 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:06.900 And then he runs in and just says that and is so stupid and sort of wonderful. did that at the shops earlier. 288 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:11.940 I ran down and said, look at me, I'm at Target. have several thoughts about that. 289 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:23.579 I think that the Cyberman have always been a slightly amorphous enemy and so they've just fitted into whatever the plot needs them to do, which becomes strength under showrunners who want them to do different and interesting things. 290 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:35.099 And I think it's nice that Stephen does that rightly trick of having so many monsters and aliens show up that they're just kind of a horde and we don't get much time with them. 291 00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:43.259 And so he chooses one example earlier in the episode to just do something interesting with a solitary member of that of that race. 292 00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:58.380 And also, don't you think that Karen, with the snapping helmet, does the best companion struggling with monster prop that is supposed to be attacking her, but is actually just being held by her, since Sarah, in Revenge of the Cyberman. 293 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:04.140 Thanks for that, Brendan. 294 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:05.460 If you hurt that, everybody. 295 00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:07.980 He's getting attacked by a fake cyber. 296 00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:10.680 I don't know what you're talking about. cockatoo just flew in here. 297 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:26.519 My favourite thing that she does is when Matt encourages her to do what he's just done and run out and draw the arms fire and he does the thumbs up and she does this sort of terrified I really, really don't want to do this thumbs up. 298 00:24:26.579 --> 00:24:27.420 It is so good. 299 00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:31.559 That whole scene crystallises their relationship for this season. 300 00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:34.019 And I have to say, I've had a bit of an epiphany on Karen. 301 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:35.819 I always thought she was okay, but I didn't love her. 302 00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:39.119 I think she's just become great through this season. 303 00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:45.960 And the sense of fun that they have together and the business that they work out is just really joyous to watch on screen. 304 00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:52.079 And that moment where the doctor says, stay back and, you know, stay undercover. 305 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:57.900 And she takes sort of 3 steps back with the most pouty reaction ever is hilarious. 306 00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:02.940 Well, I mean, I'm with you, Peter, and call me a cliche, listeners. 307 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:07.920 I have not liked her much in the past, but I think her performances this season. 308 00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:16.200 I can see so much more and she's much, much better, like the humour she really gets and the danger here, especially in this episode. 309 00:25:16.259 --> 00:25:19.380 So I've grown to really like her over the past few episodes. 310 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.740 But even earlier on, I could see that all happening. 311 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:25.019 So she's grown for me throughout the season even. 312 00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:31.019 If Amy at times is not my favourite person, but I think Karen's doing a wonderful, wonderful job. 313 00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:32.099 Agreed. 314 00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:43.740 So that scene where they confront the cybermen. actually sort of comes in to interrupt a scene where the 2 of them are talking sort of about Rory. 315 00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:46.019 So Amy's found the engagement ring. 316 00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:49.619 Well, no, she found the engagement ring last episode. 317 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:52.079 Doesn't he talk about nothing is ever forgotten, not completely? 318 00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:57.779 And at the same time, Rivers going off to get the centurions and you've got that shadowy figure. 319 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:04.019 So it's all parallel leading up to Rory's introduction at dealing with the side of them. 320 00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:12.779 And what's happening here is that Moffatt is kind of laying out something and it's hard to believe that there isn't a subtext about Doctor Who here. 321 00:26:12.839 --> 00:26:19.200 You know, if it's remembered, it can be brought back, especially with animation. 322 00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:41.339 But you also have this sort of clever thing where there's a fake out here, because that thing about people turning from stories into reality, turning from memory into actual people, we think that that's done with once it's explained, Rory. 323 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:46.980 And what we don't know is that it's going to be the climax of the next episode as well. 324 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:49.200 I think that stuff's beautiful. 325 00:26:49.259 --> 00:26:50.640 It's very Douglas Adams-y too. 326 00:26:50.759 --> 00:27:00.900 You know, sometimes people fall out of the world and little things get left behind and all that talk about miracles and coincidences and stuff like that, I think, is just classic atoms. 327 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:03.900 It doesn't ever bother you, Amy, that your life doesn't make any sense. 328 00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:04.619 Yeah. 329 00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.319 But it's subtle because, well, it's subtle. 330 00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:27.000 It is Stephen giving you a conversation that is setting up next week and answers that are going to be delivered, even if at this point in time, you kind of think, oh, Yeah, he's just giving you a bit of mystery and maybe you don't think twice necessarily about it, but it's, yeah, it's the joy of his writing. 331 00:27:27.059 --> 00:27:35.640 I think what's super interesting is that we've had the, we had the duck pond in episode one, which is a duck pond without ducks. 332 00:27:35.700 --> 00:27:36.539 It's empty. 333 00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:37.859 There should be ducks there. 334 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:40.680 We think there ought to be ducks there, but there are no ducks. 335 00:27:40.740 --> 00:27:42.299 There's no one in her house. 336 00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:45.240 She says she doesn't have a mum and dad, but we never hear what happened to them. 337 00:27:45.299 --> 00:27:58.799 We find out kind of what happened to them in the 2nd episode of the two-part angel story when we discovered that people can be drawn into the crack and then forgotten by everyone else. 338 00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:02.339 So that's been there again, hiding in plain sight. 339 00:28:02.460 --> 00:28:06.900 And so the doctor is starting to sort of edge towards that. 340 00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:13.019 And he's always been aware once he's kind of seen the crack that that's what's happened to Amy's mom and dad. 341 00:28:13.019 --> 00:28:22.380 And Stephen introduces that in a really interesting way because part of the writer's job is to segue between plot threads and, you know, push the narrative on. 342 00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:31.680 And Stephen does this very interesting thing where sometimes he will just have the character stop talking and one character will deliver the line which pushes them onto the next scene. 343 00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:33.000 And Matt does that in that scene. 344 00:28:33.059 --> 00:28:35.940 The doctor does it, where they've been talking about something completely different. 345 00:28:35.940 --> 00:28:44.220 And the doctor just looks at Amy after a short gap and says, doesn't it ever worry you that your life doesn't make sense? 346 00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:48.900 And so he just puts it straight out there rather than being clever with the way that they transition to it. 347 00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:53.099 I think that's the last line of that scene, isn't it, before the sidemen appears? 348 00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:57.000 I think that that's where that ends. think you're right. 349 00:28:57.059 --> 00:29:05.759 Well, Rory ends the cyberman. he says he's Amy, and then, of course, the doctor comes in for another hilarious moment. 350 00:29:05.819 --> 00:29:07.319 Like, you know, how have you been? 351 00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:08.339 Yeah, good, good. 352 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:09.660 And what? 353 00:29:09.660 --> 00:29:10.140 No, is that? 354 00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:10.619 No, sorry. 355 00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:13.740 He comes in and talks to Rory about missing the obvious and goes out. 356 00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:15.299 Do you like that? 357 00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:18.059 Do you think it's a little bit overdone? 358 00:29:18.059 --> 00:29:19.019 Is it Com? 359 00:29:19.740 --> 00:29:21.059 Yeah, it's slightly over egged. 360 00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:25.740 I think though the reason it works is Arthur Darville's reactions. 361 00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:27.839 He's great, isn't he, Brendan? 362 00:29:27.900 --> 00:29:29.160 Just his reactions to all of that. 363 00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:33.539 But then when the doctor comes back and it's, oh, hello, how have you been good, Roman, you know, blah, blah. 364 00:29:33.539 --> 00:29:36.119 But like the absolute sitcom moment. 365 00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:38.700 Firstly, he calls him Rory twice before he notices that he's there. 366 00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:42.180 And he talks about not being someone who misses the obvious. 367 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:46.200 He goes out of shot and then drops something noisily. 368 00:29:46.259 --> 00:29:47.279 So there's a crash. 369 00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:50.519 And doesn't Rory give sort of a little nod to himself? 370 00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:52.740 And then he comes back in. 371 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.440 Then he pushes Rory with one finger. 372 00:29:55.500 --> 00:30:02.940 And Rory goes back and then forward and you can hear the leather of his armour creaking. 373 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:04.920 It's so great. 374 00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:06.180 It's so funny. 375 00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:11.519 Maybe Mario for does it with his sort of little comedy music that comes in there. 376 00:30:11.579 --> 00:30:16.500 But I love the fact after we've just had a lot of tension and a big dramatic moment. 377 00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:28.500 Then Stephen just, you know, turns things 180 degrees and suddenly you've got a comedy moment, which sort of breaks the tension and and and you're reintroducing the wonderful Arthur Darville back into the cars. 378 00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:30.299 And that's the thing about Stephen. 379 00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:32.220 People miss this about his writing. 380 00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:35.579 They think he's all about sort of big ideas and clever tricks. 381 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:37.319 He's also just hilarious. 382 00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:39.779 He writes really funny scenes. 383 00:30:39.900 --> 00:30:40.920 Yeah, yeah. 384 00:30:40.980 --> 00:30:41.819 All the way through this. 385 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.700 I was just sort of super aware of how funny everything is. 386 00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:53.279 I love, you know, very early on, even in the pre-credits teaser, where the doctor goes 102 AM. no wait, 102 p.m. 387 00:30:53.339 --> 00:30:57.480 Oh, right, 102 AD. And like, it's not just funny. 388 00:30:57.539 --> 00:30:58.380 It's clever. 389 00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:00.059 Like, would you have thought of it? 390 00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:08.519 And I just, you know, that experience of being wowed by how smart dialogue is, is something that I've been missing, I think. 391 00:31:08.579 --> 00:31:10.799 Doctor Who is always funny when it does the Romans. 392 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:16.200 Even the eaters of light, but that wasn't funny. 393 00:31:16.259 --> 00:31:16.799 Ha ha. 394 00:31:16.859 --> 00:31:18.480 Oh god. 395 00:31:18.539 --> 00:31:20.700 I like the eating. 396 00:31:20.700 --> 00:31:22.019 Yeah, I do too, Tom. 397 00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:23.700 I do not. 398 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:24.299 But anyway. 399 00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:48.539 What about the shop where Matt is on Stonehenge talking to all of the aliens in the sky and all of those spaceships and the way that he's shot with the wind and what and how he's delivering it as well, Nathan? 400 00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:50.220 It's so amazing. 401 00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:53.220 It's such an odd choice, the way that he does it. 402 00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:55.500 It's nothing that you would predict, I think. 403 00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:04.259 I gather that it was Toby Haines, who said to Stephen Moffatt, how about we do it like he is in the middle of Wembley? 404 00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:10.259 Yeah, he, he, this isn't just the doctor telling off the villains. 405 00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:25.380 This is the doctor realising that the villains are his captive audience and just in performing it in that way, the doctor is saying, no, no, no, I'm in control, even though you've got all your ships up there, and all your guns, none of you are fired yet, and there's a reason for that. 406 00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:26.460 I'm in control. 407 00:32:26.519 --> 00:32:26.940 Thank you. 408 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:28.500 And he's not. 409 00:32:28.619 --> 00:32:29.759 No. 410 00:32:29.819 --> 00:32:38.279 I mean, because there are sort of spotlights and stuff, which are sort of practical lights, presumably intending to be lights from the spaceships and stuff. 411 00:32:38.339 --> 00:32:42.599 And there's wind and kind of rain and stuff like that. 412 00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:44.700 So he's having to shout all over that. 413 00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:47.339 And he pauses while he's talking. 414 00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:55.920 There's 2 incredible moments, which is where he does the I am talking and they all stop and the camera pulls up. 415 00:32:55.980 --> 00:33:01.259 It's above and it pulls up into the sky and we see him getting smaller and smaller. 416 00:33:01.259 --> 00:33:15.779 And then the very end where he drops that loud kind of shouting over a Wembley crowd delivery and just says, let someone else be the 1st try in his kind of normal sort of register. 417 00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:17.099 Things so good. 418 00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:19.200 It's so visually striking as well. 419 00:33:19.259 --> 00:33:33.660 I mean, you can imagine in the 80s under a director like Ron Jones, a bunch of spaceships above Stonehenge Waller dog talks would have looked execrable. whereas Ron Jones, we have Peter Moffatt there as well. better and better. 420 00:33:34.140 --> 00:33:42.779 The decision just to represent those spaceships by basically close encounter style lights. sort of moving above absolutely makes the scene. 421 00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:48.000 And of course, Stephen's been looking to give Matt these wonderful speeches all season. 422 00:33:48.059 --> 00:33:51.420 He gave him one in the 11th hour, which obviously worked brilliantly. 423 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:52.859 He gets one in the angels. 424 00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:58.319 He's been searching as a child of the Hinchcliffe era, and as the Ark in Space, his favourite story. 425 00:33:58.380 --> 00:34:04.440 He's been searching to give Matt really good indomitable speeches and here he just does it again. 426 00:34:04.500 --> 00:34:06.240 Did you imagine? 427 00:34:06.299 --> 00:34:08.460 David Tennant doing this one? 428 00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:15.780 You know, I don't think David Tennant would have failed at this, but it would have been just vastly less interesting. 429 00:34:17.099 --> 00:34:21.480 Someone else try fast, apples and pears, apples and pears. 430 00:34:21.539 --> 00:34:26.099 It is it is interesting that like Stephen comes back to that point. 431 00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:30.599 Let someone else try first. like back in the library to part of last season. 432 00:34:30.659 --> 00:34:53.699 Like, I'm the doctor, look me up, you know, and they sort of back off, and it's something that he now continues to use quite often where the villains, you know, when the doctor look me up, or, or, or, is that the, um, what does River say about him in silence in the library or Forest of the Dead, where he could turn whole armies away with a single word or something like that? 433 00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:55.739 Well, that sort of relates to here. 434 00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:56.400 They do turn away. 435 00:34:56.460 --> 00:34:58.860 Stop, but really they've got something else up their sleeve. 436 00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:00.539 Yes, that's the other thing too. 437 00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:07.380 It's so beautifully delivered that we actually think he's triumphed, but it turns out they were playing him all along. 438 00:35:07.500 --> 00:35:09.000 I love that line. 439 00:35:09.059 --> 00:35:11.880 Everything that ever hated you is coming here tonight. 440 00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:14.039 Not Mary Whitehouse or Lala Walk, though. 441 00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:17.760 Not even dodo. 442 00:35:18.059 --> 00:35:21.300 To be fair, we hated that. 443 00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:22.800 The doctor just tolerated that. 444 00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:45.239 There's a heartrending bit at the end where he says, Did she miss me? 445 00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:48.719 and the doctor's just like, um... 446 00:35:48.780 --> 00:35:51.239 Yeah, his reaction is amazing. 447 00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:55.380 Yeah, the gutted look on Rory's face is just incredible. 448 00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:59.519 And Karen comes in and does an incredible comedy performance as well. 449 00:35:59.579 --> 00:36:05.579 You know, like she's all loose limbed and stuff because she's kind of coming off the drugs or whatever. 450 00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:08.039 But she's got a very Edina monsoon vibe. 451 00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:11.039 Comes in is super dismissive. 452 00:36:11.099 --> 00:36:17.519 You know, like he's kind of horny for Romans visibly in front of Rory. 453 00:36:17.579 --> 00:36:22.440 And she's got that very Amy dialogue where she says, thanks for the swordie, nice swordie. 454 00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:25.079 I don't think that's the 1st time Rory's ever heard that. 455 00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:36.599 Yeah, you're right, Nathan. she really is doing a great job there as the supporting player in that scene without you really thinking about what she's actually doing. 456 00:36:36.659 --> 00:36:40.559 It's actually really selling, how distressed he is about the whole thing. 457 00:36:40.619 --> 00:36:41.579 Yeah, that's right. 458 00:36:41.639 --> 00:36:50.579 She's completely kind of more or less unaware of him or absolutely dismissive of him in this sort of comedy way, which makes it worse for Rory, I think. 459 00:36:50.699 --> 00:37:03.420 And then when we do move above ground and it moves totally away from comedy, it's heartbreaking in the writing, but Karen also plays it so well where she just starts crying and doesn't know why. 460 00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:06.119 It really got to me when I was watching it. 461 00:37:06.179 --> 00:37:07.079 Yeah, yeah. 462 00:37:07.380 --> 00:37:11.579 That whole, that whole plot is so affecting. 463 00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:25.079 And again, the genius of Stephen Moffat is you think it's going to go in a very maudlin direction of Rory, you know, pontificating about why Amy doesn't remember it, blah, blah. 464 00:37:25.139 --> 00:37:28.619 And Stephen Moffat is just like, I'm not interested in that. 465 00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:29.880 No one's interested in that. 466 00:37:29.940 --> 00:37:32.099 The doctor says, shut up and go talk to her. 467 00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:35.159 And Rory's like, but why am I here? 468 00:37:35.219 --> 00:37:35.760 What happened to me? 469 00:37:35.820 --> 00:37:38.099 And the doctor's just like, I don't care. 470 00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:39.599 You're here. 471 00:37:39.659 --> 00:37:41.820 That's a wonderful thing. 472 00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:42.719 Shut up and accept it. 473 00:37:42.780 --> 00:37:48.780 And to get back to what you were saying earlier, Nathan, and to use one of your phrases. 474 00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:53.820 So when you were talking about how does this fit in with cybercontinuity, to use one of your phrases, I don't care about that. 475 00:37:54.179 --> 00:37:57.780 And the 10 year old at home doesn't care about that. 476 00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:04.440 The 10-year-old at home is going to go. theres Daleks, and there's cybermen, and there's autons, and there's a hoix. 477 00:38:04.500 --> 00:38:05.820 I love them. 478 00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:07.139 Is there a steak? 479 00:38:07.260 --> 00:38:08.219 I loved the hooks. 480 00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:09.719 You know, there was also Spirit-ons. 481 00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:10.619 We just couldn't see that. 482 00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:12.900 And Vizians. 483 00:38:14.099 --> 00:38:17.039 They asked refusians, but they refused. 484 00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:20.940 Oh, dear. 485 00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:31.860 But that's the, see, Stephen Moffatt kind of goes down the root of saying, I've explained well enough how this could possibly have happened. 486 00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:34.500 Now let's get back to the human story. 487 00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:36.599 And that's it. 488 00:38:36.659 --> 00:38:46.980 I mean, he's telling Roy to shut up because he has seen that Amy loves Rory and it was in question at the beginning of the season, but it's not in question now. 489 00:38:47.099 --> 00:38:52.320 And so he says shut up, go up there and kind of, you know, get her, really. 490 00:38:52.380 --> 00:38:54.539 And that's kind of the subtext of that. 491 00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:58.079 He's super confident that Rory's able to win her back. 492 00:38:58.139 --> 00:39:04.380 And part of the tragedy of that whole scene is that Amy is too confident as well. 493 00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:20.340 Amy, earlier in the season, talked Professor Brieswell in victory of the Daleks around and sort of made him human again through the power of her emotion, and she tries the same thing with Rory, and she's confident that she'll succeed and she doesn't. 494 00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:21.000 Yeah. 495 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:21.719 Yeah. 496 00:39:21.780 --> 00:39:37.019 I mean, we said earlier this season that the bit after Hungry Earth and cold blood, that that's where the relationship has gone horribly wrong, where her decision to flee has had terrible consequences. 497 00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:40.860 And, you know, she doesn't even remember Rory anymore. 498 00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:45.300 And so the natural arc is for that to be fixed. 499 00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:49.440 You know, we have to be waiting for the other shooter drop at that point in the season. 500 00:39:49.500 --> 00:39:52.679 And so doing the thing. 501 00:39:52.739 --> 00:39:55.440 It's an absolute episode 12 thing, isn't it? 502 00:39:55.500 --> 00:39:59.039 where that looks like it's going to be resolved only to be snatched away. 503 00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:00.719 Yeah. 504 00:40:00.780 --> 00:40:14.820 And it's also, this becomes a troop of Stephen Moffatt to do something really horrendous to the characters in the finale or the penultimate episode. 505 00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:16.019 So, you know, here. 506 00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:19.260 Rory shoots Amy. 507 00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:19.860 Yeah, yeah. 508 00:40:19.860 --> 00:40:23.099 And basically kills her. 509 00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:26.639 And, you know, we're gonna get these throughout Moffatt's tenure. 510 00:40:26.699 --> 00:40:31.679 And I don't quite know. 511 00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:38.039 It feels like I should want to switch off the television at that moment. 512 00:40:38.099 --> 00:40:39.659 But I don't. 513 00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:46.920 There is something about the writing and the performance that makes me go, okay, that's horrible, but I want to see where this goes next. 514 00:40:46.980 --> 00:40:59.880 And we have it right up until Bill gets turned into a cyberman in world enough in time. that it's a sickening moment, but you're like, I need to know how this turns out. 515 00:40:59.940 --> 00:41:04.860 I mean, she spends decades down there with the master. 516 00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:12.659 Like I, I think Moffatt's playing a kind of knife edge game that clearly doesn't work for a lot of people. 517 00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:27.360 And it's because he's writing in this storybook register where the characters perform plot functions and deliver funny lines, but you can't kind of interrogate how they would feel. 518 00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:29.280 And it's part of a problem with Doctor Who, right? 519 00:41:29.340 --> 00:41:36.840 Right from the point where Billy Piper gets hit in the face by an adherent of the repeated meme and knocked unconscious and locked in a room. 520 00:41:36.900 --> 00:41:48.360 You know, why would someone who is as realistic as her in rose ever travel with a doctor again after that's happened to her? 521 00:41:48.420 --> 00:41:53.159 So no one really works as a real person in the Doctor Who world? 522 00:41:53.219 --> 00:41:59.280 But Moffat pushes that further than most people would like, I think. 523 00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:03.659 And we'll see that next year, I think he flubs it a few times. 524 00:42:03.719 --> 00:42:05.340 He goes too far next year. 525 00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:05.880 Yeah. 526 00:42:05.940 --> 00:42:08.880 Isn't she what you say about that moment in end of the world, Nathan? 527 00:42:08.940 --> 00:42:13.500 Because that was the actual scene where New Doctor Who became Doctor Who for me. 528 00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:20.219 It felt like, you know, the companion's just been clobbered and put in a room to die by lightning coming through the walls. 529 00:42:21.059 --> 00:42:37.260 I think it's an artefact of Moffat having been raised on the Hinchcliffe era. because he saw how strong Sarah was companion and everything that was thrown at Sarah Jane and he's kind of he's that's in his subconscious and that's what he does with companions. 530 00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:43.320 And I think we said that Sarah Jane didn't work for us in ways for that reason as a character. 531 00:42:43.380 --> 00:42:50.039 The performances, you know, impeccable and we love Sarah Jane to death, but like why is she still travelling with a doctor? 532 00:42:50.099 --> 00:42:51.539 She ceased to become a real person. 533 00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:52.500 Yeah, yeah. 534 00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:55.500 And I don't think Moffatt wants these people to be real people. 535 00:42:55.559 --> 00:43:05.039 I think they're sitcom characters and I think that it works on a kind of sitcom logic, that, you know, there's the male lead and the female lead and all of that sort of thing. 536 00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:15.119 So I don't, I'm not as upset as people might be by Rory shooting Amy, but that might just be because it's the 1st time he pulls this. 537 00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:16.440 Yeah, yeah. 538 00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:19.079 And that's the thing, I'm not upset about it, but I feel like I should be. 539 00:43:19.139 --> 00:43:20.280 You know what I mean? 540 00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:21.480 And that's the thing. 541 00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:24.360 I'm not even that upset when we get to Bill. 542 00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:27.780 I hate the bill things. so much. 543 00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:30.960 But I think that's possibly because of the way it's resolved. 544 00:43:31.019 --> 00:43:32.039 Yeah. 545 00:43:32.099 --> 00:43:32.880 You know. 546 00:43:32.940 --> 00:43:38.940 Where, whereas Nathan, I know, for instance, for a fact that you were, you were quite upset with Darkwater Death in heaven. 547 00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:39.539 Yes. 548 00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:40.199 Yeah. 549 00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:40.739 Yeah. 550 00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:49.199 But again, I think that's a really, really good 2 parter, and I just remember feeling an absolute sense of dread all the way through dark water. 551 00:43:49.260 --> 00:43:55.800 And if there is, I think, just because Danny's death is so terrible, you know, so awful. 552 00:43:55.860 --> 00:43:57.960 I think it's the worst death in Doctor Who. 553 00:43:58.019 --> 00:44:01.019 Like the most upsetting death, I think, in Doctor Who. 554 00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:18.300 But it's kind of that Stephen Moffatt is operating at a register where it's impossible to read those companions as people, you know, and it's a feature of the show, but Moffatt sort of turns it up to 11, I think. 555 00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:23.159 And is it interesting that Moffat's not interested in interrogating that, but Russell is. 556 00:44:23.219 --> 00:44:34.079 And so we have those scenes in Army of Ghosts where Jackie talks to Rose and tells her that she's becoming a storybook character, tells her you're not going to be a real person anymore. 557 00:44:34.139 --> 00:44:38.880 You're just going to be some woman walking through a market on an alien planet and you won't be you. 558 00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:40.559 You'll be a space person. 559 00:44:40.619 --> 00:44:41.340 Correct. 560 00:44:54.119 --> 00:45:03.420 Speaking of space people, we do have the whole Rory shoots Amy intercut with Rivers' dilemma. 561 00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:15.179 Yeah. and her whole discovery of Amy's house and her room and the figures and the books on the Romans and the Pandorica and all of that leading into the final few minutes. 562 00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:20.880 I'm just going back to what Brendan said where he doesn't really feel like upset at Rory killing Amy. 563 00:45:20.940 --> 00:45:30.300 I'm sort of similar because it's intercut with the doctor getting put in the Pandorica, rivers, rivers getting trapped in the TARDIS and all these things are happening. 564 00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:33.659 And so I feel like all of these things are going to be resolved. 565 00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:35.099 Like I don't, she's not going to remain dead. 566 00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:37.980 The doctor's not going to remain trapped in the doctor. 567 00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:39.179 All these questions are going to be answered. 568 00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:42.059 And I think they are in the next episode. 569 00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:47.639 So, I guess jumping back to River for a bit. you know, and what she's discovering. 570 00:45:47.699 --> 00:46:01.739 It's interesting how he's writing her into the TARDIS, sort of putting her in the side plot, perhaps jumping ahead like the next week, but getting rid of her, but she's still discovering all these important plot points. 571 00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:02.280 Yeah. 572 00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:07.860 Do you do you think the burn marks outside Amy's house are Daleks have landed? 573 00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:08.400 Yeah. 574 00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:10.980 Like, so that's like in remembrance of the Daleks. 575 00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:11.340 Yeah. 576 00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:13.019 So the Daleks have landed. 577 00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:18.420 They've gone upstairs to a bedroom, they've read all of her books, you know, they've gone through the photo collection. 578 00:46:18.480 --> 00:46:20.699 Who is Nancy Drew? 579 00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:27.360 A couple of them through flew in through the skylight like they did with Adelaide. 580 00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:33.659 It's so great that he gives them such a preposterous non-science fiction job. 581 00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:39.840 You know, it could have been anyone else, but it's the daleks who are rummaging through Amy's stuff. you know in her bedroom. 582 00:46:39.900 --> 00:46:43.019 Daleks do not understand, choose your own adventure. 583 00:46:44.219 --> 00:46:53.699 It's interesting you say that because I don't think the 1st time through it registered, there were burn marks there, that they were even Daleks, that the house had been ransacked by whatever monsters. 584 00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:55.860 Yeah, a part of the alliance. 585 00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:58.380 But it's interesting how like you've got the books on Roman. 586 00:46:58.440 --> 00:46:59.159 And so that's come true. 587 00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:02.219 And you've got the Pandoraca's box and that's in the Pandoraca. 588 00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:03.780 But then you've got the picture of Rory. 589 00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:11.460 Now, if he's been erased from time, like, would have ever existed, that picture, I'm a bit confused by that one point. 590 00:47:11.519 --> 00:47:21.960 So did they go there before he got erased or doesn't the doctor say people fall out of the world, but things get left behind? 591 00:47:22.019 --> 00:47:30.119 Okay, so again, Stephen is actually explaining the cracks perhaps in his plot away through lines always one step ahead of us. 592 00:47:30.179 --> 00:47:31.019 That's right. 593 00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:42.179 And it's something that I think only when you come back to rewatch his episodes, is that you pick up on all of these things and often in the moment, because there's so much wonderful dialogue and things going on. 594 00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:43.199 You miss. 595 00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:47.579 Well, I do anyway, miss little bits and pieces around and think, Oh, has he explained all of that? 596 00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:49.019 I'm a bit, you know, you know what? 597 00:47:49.019 --> 00:47:56.940 You know what I'm like, where I want everything sign sealed and delivered in a bow, and it actually is all there in plain sight when you go back and rewatch it. 598 00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:04.800 Won't you be lucky next week for the series, though one of Amy's favourite childhood books was Doctor Who in an exciting adventure with the Daleks. 599 00:48:05.699 --> 00:48:09.539 Also tell what you said about, everything is kind of answered. 600 00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:12.599 Do we ever get an answer for why the TARDIS is blowing up? 601 00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:14.159 Or is it just for space reasons? 602 00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:17.099 It is I think it is just for space reasons. 603 00:48:18.059 --> 00:48:26.219 There are throwaway comedy lines in time of the doctor. where he kind of realises that he never explained it. 604 00:48:26.219 --> 00:48:31.380 And so there's something about, oh, I don't know, the silence or something. 605 00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:36.480 And it's surprising how little that matters. 606 00:48:36.539 --> 00:48:39.539 I think this two-part finale is triumphant. 607 00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:42.539 Central to it is the TARDIS exploding. 608 00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:53.940 And it looks like it's going to be the silence because we get a voice on the screen saying silence will fall, but series 6 never really resolves it either. 609 00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:54.659 No. 610 00:48:54.719 --> 00:49:02.159 I also think this cliffhanger is a product of having to follow on from Russell. 611 00:49:02.219 --> 00:49:18.000 So, you know, Stephen knows that he's being handed an incredibly popular show, but he also knows from all of his experience in television that it would be very easy to fumble it and get it wrong, which is why he follows Russell's structure so much this season. 612 00:49:18.059 --> 00:49:20.280 But I think for this cliffhanger. 613 00:49:20.340 --> 00:49:25.800 He's looking back at Russell's last big season cliffhanger, which is the stolen earth. 614 00:49:25.860 --> 00:49:28.440 And so the cliffhanger for the stolen earth. 615 00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:31.260 The doctor is regenerating in the TARDIS. 616 00:49:31.320 --> 00:49:37.139 Sarah has almost run over some Daleks in her, Nissan Figaro, and now she's going to get shot. 617 00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:38.280 That'll never not be funny. 618 00:49:40.019 --> 00:49:49.559 Gwen and Yanto are unloading submachine guns into a Dalek while screaming, you know, everyone is in some form of danger. 619 00:49:49.619 --> 00:49:57.659 So Moffatt is like, I need to put everyone in some form of danger, but I don't have 2 spinoffs worth of characters to put in danger. 620 00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:05.760 So the doctor's being locked in a box that we know takes several hours to open and can only open if it feels like it and there's a bunch of monsters outside. 621 00:50:05.820 --> 00:50:07.619 River is in the Tardus. 622 00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:11.699 She's locked in there and it's exploding and we don't know what is happening. 623 00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:15.659 And Amy is dead and Rory is an auton. 624 00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:26.219 Oh, and by the way, every star in the universe is blowing up at every point in its history, fade to black, cliffhanger scream, no next time trailer, titles. 625 00:50:26.280 --> 00:50:28.920 Get out of that one, whoever writes the next episode. 626 00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:31.619 That sounds like a good. 627 00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:33.659 Oh my god, it's so good. 628 00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:34.860 It's so ambitious. 629 00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:38.340 And the special effect of all the stars exploding. 630 00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:43.980 The last thing we see is earth and we fade to black and the music is interrupted by that. 631 00:50:44.039 --> 00:50:45.840 It's so well done. 632 00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:47.760 And is the stars fading? 633 00:50:47.820 --> 00:50:49.619 Does that look like Van Gogh painting? 634 00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:51.119 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 635 00:50:51.179 --> 00:50:52.019 Yeah, a little bit. 636 00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:55.199 The stars are all kind of swirling and stuff like that. 637 00:50:55.260 --> 00:50:58.320 I can't even say Metala oriensis. 638 00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:01.860 It's incredible. 639 00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:04.860 I hope that tracking comes back in the reset. 640 00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:07.559 But you are right. 641 00:51:07.619 --> 00:51:12.960 Like, you know, all of that going to black and just having the earth, it's sort of a bit of a mirror of like when we come in. 642 00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:13.980 Yeah. 643 00:51:13.980 --> 00:51:19.619 The shots that always come into earth at the beginning of Russell's and even this season with Stephen Moffatt. 644 00:51:19.739 --> 00:51:23.699 It's now it's sort of the pull back and it's just this little dot. 645 00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:27.719 Very evocative shot, just earth left by itself and a sea of blackness. 646 00:51:27.780 --> 00:51:32.460 But I love the fact that there are all those different cliffhangers to resolve. 647 00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:39.059 And you're quite right, Brendan, you know, how can Stephen compete with what Russell's done before? 648 00:51:39.059 --> 00:51:46.619 And here you go, people, here are all my multiple cliffhangers and hopefully you'll like at least one of them to come back or more than one. 649 00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:49.199 And can we make a mention for how beautifully it's shot? 650 00:51:49.260 --> 00:51:56.820 Toby Haynes is fantastic throughout the episode, but in particular, the cliffhanger and the buildup is so beautifully put together. 651 00:51:56.880 --> 00:52:06.539 All of those wonderful, slightly slow motion scenes with River and the Tartars intercut with the doctor being dragged into the Pandorica and Rory holding Amy. 652 00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:08.340 I mean, it's just superbly shot. 653 00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:11.340 But isn't the inside of the Pandoraca like a blue green colour? 654 00:52:11.400 --> 00:52:18.239 Like it's a slightly different whiting and in some of the shots, Matt looks absolutely stunning like the way in which he's actually framed. 655 00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:24.119 I think, yeah, you're totally right, Peter, the direction and the lighting in that is just utterly superb. 656 00:52:24.179 --> 00:52:26.039 There's another shot wrong in the entire episode. 657 00:52:26.099 --> 00:52:27.119 It's just masterfully done. 658 00:52:54.179 --> 00:52:56.940 Well, they listen to that's all we have time for this week. 659 00:52:57.059 --> 00:52:58.739 We'll be back next week. 660 00:52:58.860 --> 00:53:05.340 If there is a next week, to try and work out what in God's name is going on in the Big Bang. 661 00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:19.980 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook, at FDE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, and Jody Interterra. 662 00:53:20.099 --> 00:53:25.920 Until next time, please remember your training about Doctor Song's hallucinogenic lipstick. 663 00:53:25.980 --> 00:53:34.380 We only just kissed you 2 minutes ago, and already you imagine that we've been droning on about this silly TV show for more than 210 episodes. 664 00:53:34.500 --> 00:53:37.440 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 665 00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:38.639 Kiss kiss. 666 00:53:38.699 --> 00:53:39.300 See you soon. 667 00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:40.019 Good night. 668 00:53:43.739 --> 00:53:49.559 That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd Building, Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffiths and Brendan Jones. 669 00:53:49.619 --> 00:53:51.480 Theme arrangement by Cameron Ladd. 670 00:53:51.539 --> 00:53:57.719 This episode, Space Reasons, was recorded on the 9th of May 2020, and released on the 30th of May. 671 00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:04.980 Now that the universe has been destroyed, a post-credits joke seems somehow inappropriate. 672 00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:18.420 So instead, let me thank the many guests who joined us this series, Stephen from New to Who, Kevin Bernard, Col Solito, Simon Moore, Karen Carpenter, Johnny Spandrel, Eric Stadnick, Fiona Tomney, Jack Shanahan, and Joe Ford. 673 00:54:18.480 --> 00:54:20.219 We'll see you next week. 674 00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:21.659 I think that's it. 675 00:54:21.719 --> 00:54:22.380 What do you think? 676 00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:24.119 It's good discussion. 677 00:54:24.179 --> 00:54:25.679 Yeah, that was so good. 678 00:54:25.739 --> 00:54:26.699 There's so much to say. 679 00:54:26.760 --> 00:54:31.619 It's so good I will give you the link, but someone at a convention made Sylveste to do the... 680 00:54:31.619 --> 00:54:33.420 Yeah, someone else do our 1st speech. 681 00:54:33.420 --> 00:54:34.800 And it's actually quite good. 682 00:54:34.860 --> 00:54:39.000 Like, it's it's actually madder because it's silver sight reading. 683 00:54:39.059 --> 00:54:52.739 It's like he's drunk or something, you know, like, there's something, you know, like, he really is sort of selling the, I've got nothing left to lose thing and he's doing his sort of weird posh boy accent and stuff like that. 684 00:54:52.800 --> 00:55:00.960 And he changes his, he changes his delivery, so he slows things down and then speeds things up and delivers things in a staccato way sometimes. 685 00:55:01.019 --> 00:55:02.159 So good. 686 00:55:02.219 --> 00:55:08.400 I think later on they give him sort of things that we know Matt Smith can do in the scripts. 687 00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:15.059 And I always think that's a shame because what Matt Smith can do is something you've never seen before. 688 00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:29.880 And, you know, I think eventually I think they just sort of turn to sort of, you know, Matt Smithy things, you know, I felt the speech in Rings of Ackerton, which is supposed to be like this absolutely falls flat and is sort of super embarrassing, really. 689 00:55:29.940 --> 00:55:31.860 And again, Colin's done a version of that. 690 00:55:31.980 --> 00:55:34.380 In that case it's actually much better. 691 00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:35.519 Well, I can imagine. 692 00:55:35.579 --> 00:55:36.179 I can imagine. 693 00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:46.440 Mainly because to hear Colin Baker performing as his doctor and most of that speech is quite erudite, but then to hear Colin Baker saying, you take it all, baby. 694 00:55:48.059 --> 00:55:50.400 John Pertley said that once. 695 00:55:51.179 --> 00:55:53.159 That's not that again. 696 00:55:53.219 --> 00:55:54.480 No, no. 697 00:55:54.539 --> 00:55:56.699 Well, I like the rings of maggot. 698 00:55:56.760 --> 00:55:57.360 Yeah, yeah. 699 00:55:57.900 --> 00:55:59.760 Colin was David Troughton's flat mate. 700 00:55:59.820 --> 00:56:00.539 Just saying. 701 00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:02.940 All right. 702 00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:04.679 I'll stop recording. 703 00:56:04.739 --> 00:56:05.579 Hang on. 704 00:56:05.579 --> 00:56:06.840 Do you want to do the outro? 705 00:56:06.900 --> 00:56:07.199 Oh, yeah. 706 00:56:07.260 --> 00:56:08.099 Do we do the outro? 707 00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:08.699 forget that. 708 00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:09.780 We have an outro. 709 00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:11.880 We want to talk about the title a bit as well. 710 00:56:11.940 --> 00:56:13.679 I really love the fact it's a verb title. 711 00:56:13.739 --> 00:56:16.380 Well, no, no, it's not a verb. a sentence. 712 00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:20.280 So, yeah, it's not just a verb phrase. a full sentence. 713 00:56:20.340 --> 00:56:22.199 So we have verb phrases like kill the moon. 714 00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:25.860 Um, and let's kill hit, well, let's kill hit. 715 00:56:25.860 --> 00:56:26.579 The doctor dances. 716 00:56:26.639 --> 00:56:28.980 Well, that's its 1st one that's a sentence, I think. 717 00:56:29.039 --> 00:56:30.239 Isn't it? 718 00:56:30.300 --> 00:56:32.159 Yeah, I think you might be wrong. 719 00:56:32.219 --> 00:56:35.880 Don't shoot the pianist is obviously a sentence, but that's a single episode. 720 00:56:35.940 --> 00:56:38.519 We should have had more of those in the classic series. 721 00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:40.380 Yes, well, let's kill Delta. 722 00:56:41.639 --> 00:56:43.739 Bring it on, baby. 723 00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:44.820 Maimon pursues. 724 00:56:45.300 --> 00:56:47.460 We did all... 725 00:56:47.460 --> 00:56:50.880 We did almost have There a doctor in the horse? 726 00:56:50.940 --> 00:56:52.860 Yes, he did. 727 00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:53.820 That would have been great. 728 00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:57.119 What's all roads lead to a nightmare? 729 00:56:57.179 --> 00:57:00.119 Yeah, yeah, that's a sentence and the nightmare begins as a sentence. 730 00:57:00.179 --> 00:57:02.519 Yeah, we did more often than we think, do we? 731 00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:06.599 Well, no story titles, I don't think, but certainly episode titles. 732 00:57:06.659 --> 00:57:07.440 Yeah. 733 00:57:07.559 --> 00:57:12.659 Yeah, but I think the doctor dances are the 1st one that's a thing. 734 00:57:12.719 --> 00:57:17.039 Yeah, it was like when attached was a Star Trek. 735 00:57:17.099 --> 00:57:17.519 Yeah. 736 00:57:17.579 --> 00:57:21.179 When attached was a Star Trek title and I thought, oh, adjective. 737 00:57:21.239 --> 00:57:22.920 Well, maybe it's a verb. 738 00:57:22.980 --> 00:57:23.460 Okay. 739 00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:25.139 All right, here goes. 740 00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:30.059 Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.