WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:29:21

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Hello, D listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast, whose life doesn't make any sense.

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But whose does?

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Todd, and I'm your plastic groom who's fun to be with now with

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multiple marital attachments.

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Well, the stars have never existed.

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The universe has been destroyed and it's been a long time since we

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could get away with ending an episode with a brief shot of some

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scary floor tiles.

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So what the hell could possibly happen next?

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Let's find out as we discuss the Big Bang.

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So, one of our listeners, Nick H, at Heisenberg Pod, ask us this

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question.

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Please explain the season ending 2 parter.

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I do not get it at all.

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That's because he lives in an uncertainty principle.

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Well, on that note, Nathan, please explain.

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Okay, I'm going to do it in 30, no, I'm not going to do it.

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I can have a go.

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So Gossini and Udozo wrote and directed last week's episode

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including the Cleopatra, please.

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It really was.

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And this week's one is more Warner Brothers.

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As Scribble comedy.

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It actually feels like Myrna Loy and William Powell and Carol

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Lombardo, because it's me and I'm on the podcast.

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But, you know, this is what we talk about.

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But you can see the pace and the direction.

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Moffatt's really playing with his film, his film history and

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everything he loves in his box of delights.

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I get a real sapphire and steel vibe from it.

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Yeah.

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But I was awake for this one.

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It's shorter.

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Yeah, funnier, but it takes place in a sort of eccentric space.

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I mean, we'll talk about the opening a little bit later, but most

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of the stuff in that museum happens in a world where the rules

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don't normally apply.

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And the way that Moffat achieves this is by inventing the total

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what is it?

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Not the total perspective.

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The total event collapsed.

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You remember Matt was a complex space-time event in Time of

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Angels.

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And now we've got perfect, perfect. you know, better than bidmead

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techno babble here, total event collapse does what it says on the

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tin.

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But basically what it means is that rules don't apply.

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And so we exist in this sort of weird world that is sort of our

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world.

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But it's a world where there's no stars, where there's no sun

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where history is gradually unhappening around them.

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And all of that sort of strange time thing and the emphasis on

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historical artefacts and stuff seems to me classic sapphire and

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steel.

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I feel it's classic Douglas Adams.

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There's a lot of Douglas Adams.

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I actually feel that Moffat is in his own manic manner, which is

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always more frenetic than Adam's even at his at his most

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Parisian.

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Adams was never quite as frenetic as this, as this storytelling is

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but I really do feel it's his thinking, who's been the best story

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writer?

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I felt this is more of picking these last 2 episodes.

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We've been picking over the history of Doctor Who for the

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Christmas box best bits.

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We certainly saw that last week with all the sort of, you know, day

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poll mini figures sort of collected at the end.

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I mean, the Adams thing.

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Moffatt owes a lot to Adams because Adams does the puzzle box plot

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with time travel, and not so much in Doctor Who, but certainly in

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Dirk Gently's holistic detective agency, which is absolutely

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constructed like that, where a whole heap of inexplicable events

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happen.

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And then there's time travel and they're sort of explained and

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plus jokes.

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And also the rebooting the universe out of a small amount of

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matter that was in the Pandora car seems to me like the total

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perspective vortex extrapolating the universe. to fairy coat.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, so I think when Nick's asking sort of what happens.

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It's exactly that.

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It's kind of like ghostlight in that everything you need to know

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about what is happening in this episode happens in an info dump in

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one scene.

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It's the scene just before the doctor gets shot by the Dalek, where

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when he explains inside the Pandora, all these molecules from the

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beginning of the universe, we've seen that the light from the

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Pandoraca revives things.

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So let's just turn it up to 11. actually surprised they didn't use

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that line.

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But I do have to wonder then what made all the styles blow up in

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the 1st place.

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Well, that's a total event collapse.

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Okay.

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In the dictionary, Brandon.

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The stars.

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Not the planets.

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Well, no, because Earth survives, but I suppose where the stars

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exploding at every point in their history.

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They probably never generated planets.

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A lot of planets. point in history.

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Yeah, but they're an anomaly. at the eye of the storm.

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So the only reason the earth exists, the earth couldn't have

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existed in this reality, but the only reason it exists is because

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it did exist.

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And it's the eye of the storm and it's magic.

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You see, there are enough kind of space reasons given for the

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people who want there to be some sort of coherent scientific thing

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that they can hang their hat on.

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But basically, this works on the logic of a fairy tale, and it

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works with magic, and that's how the story is resolved.

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It's funny that like Rory says, no, not getting it.

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And I actually, as I said there, I went, well, me finally getting

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it 11 years later.

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Like all the answers are there or he set everything up and whether

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you like the space reasons or buy them or whatever for somebody

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like me who wants everything answered, they are there, but you've

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just got to accept some of them are more magic science and I think

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it's your perspective on what you think science fiction or Doctor

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Who actually is.

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Yeah, I I had canon that the reason the stars exploded is because

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the TARDIS exploded and the TARDIS has been everywhere in the

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universe.

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So if it's exploding at every point in the universe, the Tatars

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blew up all the stars.

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Yeah, well I think that's clear that that's what's happening.

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Although I will...

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I will say that watching it this time through is the 1st time I

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understood why, when River opens the TARDIS doors, there's a block

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of concrete in front of them, because the doctor says the TARDIS

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has sealed off the control room and river in a pocket dimension.

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Ah, made of concrete and put her in a time loop.

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So at the point of the explosion, she loops back a few seconds so

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she never gets blown up, but the rest of the TARDIS does.

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And it's like, okay, no, I can accept that.

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But again, magic.

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Magic I think.

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Hashtag space reason.

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So we begin?

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Yeah. 1894 years later, so with young Amy, am I correct?

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Yeah, so it's Little Amelia.

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In fact, the 1st shot there is the 1st shot of series five.

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So what happens here, I think, is that Amy gets a do over.

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We see what happens when she runs off with her imaginary friend

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the night before her wedding, it ends in catastrophe.

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It ends with the universe blowing up.

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That be a salutary list.

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Wayward girl.

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When you're an adult, nothing good happens after midnight.

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Sorry, turn left.

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Yeah, or before midnight, really.

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But now she gets a do over, right?

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The doctor never comes.

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And so she does that prayer and she goes up to the window

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expecting the doctor to be there, but instead of hearing the sort

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of wheezing, groaning sound, all we hear is the sound of the

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wind.

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And so this is a world where the doctor never came for her.

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And because of that, it's a world that has no stars and no magic

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you know, and she's trying to hold on to that because that's Amy.

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But instead she lives in a much bleaker and more desolate world

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where the doctor never shows up.

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Mind you, he turns up 4 minutes in because he can't help himself.

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And needs to invite her to the museum.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Her aunt gives up on her in that, you know?

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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You know, Lost Child Museum?

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Well, whatever.

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I'll go back tomorrow. she'll be there.

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It reminds me of this short film I saw when I was a kid, and I

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don't know if it was like a public service announcement or

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something, but brother and sister get locked overnight in a

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supermarket and they have to eat the frozen food and what have

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you.

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And it was Australian.

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I remember it was Australian.

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But I remember as a kid going, hasn't their mum or dad like called

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up and said, I last saw them in the supermarket.

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Can someone go in and law?

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Yeah, they've cracked open a couple of bottles of red, I would

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think.

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But yeah, enjoying the quiet.

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Yeah, Aunt Sharon's clearly like, Quiet night.

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No little ginger talking about stars.

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I can live with this.

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Also, I think too, it's an answer to the kind of objection that

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the doctor's sort of driven her mad in the original timeline

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because she's visiting all those psychologists and biting them and

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stuff like that.

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That's the thing that still happens in this version where the

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doctor doesn't show.

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Maybe not as much.

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She seems quite cool and collected, and she follows the procedure

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and she, I mean, all she ever does is I'm thirsty.

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It's not really difficult for an 11 year old.

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It all.

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No, I think just Auntie Sharon is a cow.

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Yeah, yeah, that's it, yeah.

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We don't see her again, do we?

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She burn very brightly?

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She is at the wedding.

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She's at the wedding. at the wedding, right at the back.

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But, you know, we need us.

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In this pre-credits teaser, obviously, we've got post-chit notes

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and the soda stolen and stick around pond and all of that's going

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to come back later on in the episode.

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Again, it's front loading it.

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It's a puzzle box because we open the Pandorica expecting to see

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the doctor inside and it's Amy and she says, all right, kid, this

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is where it gets complicated.

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And it's already fairly complicated.

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Like we've seen clearly the doctor has snatched her drink.

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We know that the doctors left the notes.

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It's the red pen from the lodger.

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It's all sort of this sort of careful, complex setup where we

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don't see the reasons for any of the things that happen.

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And then we end with this sort of big surprise that can't possibly

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be true.

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And then he will go back after the credits, which don't come in

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until sort of 7.5 minutes again and give us every reason for all

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of those things that happen.

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It's also Stephen doing what he does now with 2 partters where you

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just don't have a direct continuation like what Russell would or

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classic Doctor Who.

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You know, he throws us in at some and those answers are going to

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happen at some point through the episode, he's going to explain

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what's going on, but you're sort of thrown by where you're at and

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what's actually going on.

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Did you guys think it was going to be Amy even when she touched

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the Pandora?

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No.

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No, absolutely.

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Not originally, no, no.

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And that was a lovely, lovely bit.

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Although you are, I mean, it's all predicated, isn't it?

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Oh, she has to live.

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How will she live?

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Put her in the fridge.

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Yeah.

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I mean, it's a great surprise and sort of very deliberately that.

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Or a disappointment.

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Depending on your position as the viewer.

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Is that too much?

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And then we go 1894 years previously, with Rory talking to dead

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Amy, and a ridiculous miracle happens.

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I think I said this last week and I just want to reiterate.

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00:13:14.100 --> 00:13:17.940
I don't know what it is, but somehow Stephen Moffat manages to

254
00:13:17.940 --> 00:13:23.460
write. a man shooting his girlfriend in the stomach and not have

255
00:13:23.460 --> 00:13:24.899
it be utterly horrific.

256
00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:30.179
It is disturbing and upsetting, but I think...

257
00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:35.519
I think, though, even last week, because it's so ridiculous, like

258
00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:38.700
Rory shoots Amy, then the doctor gets locked in a box, then the

259
00:13:38.700 --> 00:13:39.840
entire universe explodes.

260
00:13:39.899 --> 00:13:42.480
Then we pull out to reveal all the stars exploding.

261
00:13:42.539 --> 00:13:45.299
I think at that point you go, well, obviously they're going to get

262
00:13:45.299 --> 00:13:45.779
out of this.

263
00:13:48.299 --> 00:13:50.700
This isn't series nine.

264
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:55.620
See, I can see Tom having huge fun with this, but I can see David

265
00:13:55.620 --> 00:14:00.600
Tennant just being quite cross with it all. wouldn't have been...

266
00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:04.019
But it is quite fun, I think.

267
00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:08.519
Like, you're comparing to Douglas Adams and the humour and the wit

268
00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:13.919
of Stephen Moffat to give you answers, but to have that in there

269
00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:17.279
so that you're not disturbed by the fact that Rory has shot Amy in

270
00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:19.860
the stomach and the doctor coming back with the fez and the mop

271
00:14:19.860 --> 00:14:22.620
and all of that ridiculousness and you're sort of chuckling away

272
00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:25.620
what's going on and that I think is marvellous.

273
00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:28.379
It is a moment of great despair, though, isn't it?

274
00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.259
And I think that's, of course, Arthur Darville really carries the

275
00:14:31.259 --> 00:14:31.799
scene.

276
00:14:31.860 --> 00:14:32.460
Oh, yes.

277
00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:35.100
I don't think it would have worked if it was anyone else in the

278
00:14:35.100 --> 00:14:35.639
car.

279
00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:40.559
And immediately when we hit that despair, something ridiculous

280
00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:41.100
happens.

281
00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:47.100
And the one thing I had never noticed before is that he appears 3

282
00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:49.860
times and the 1st time he has the mop and the fairs.

283
00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:53.340
The 2nd time he doesn't have the mop, I didn't actually notice

284
00:14:53.340 --> 00:14:56.340
that before, and it's one of those sort of continuity errors.

285
00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:58.500
You know, you might have thought it was a continuity error.

286
00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:00.419
Except when we replay it from the other end.

287
00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:03.779
You see him deliberately putting the mop down so that he doesn't

288
00:15:03.779 --> 00:15:06.299
appear with the mop in the 2nd thing.

289
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:08.879
And all of that is setting us up for the moment where the doctor

290
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:11.759
is going to jump back in time and appear and then die.

291
00:15:11.820 --> 00:15:17.279
And so when that happens, we're already primed to be aware that

292
00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:21.840
things happen to the doctor in this episode in the wrong order.

293
00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:25.500
And so it's gently set up for us, I think.

294
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:30.360
The same way that last week, Rory coming back, which we thought

295
00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:33.419
was the point of all that talk about, if you can remember

296
00:15:33.419 --> 00:15:34.740
something, it can come back.

297
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:38.399
Rory comes back and we think, okay, we understand that.

298
00:15:38.460 --> 00:15:41.639
And so when the doctor comes back at the end of this episode, we're

299
00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:43.500
already primed to understand how that works.

300
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:50.639
I like all of the dialogue with Rory about the nestines.

301
00:15:50.700 --> 00:15:54.179
And there's quite a lot of explanations there about him, you know

302
00:15:54.179 --> 00:15:56.220
being more than just an esteem duplicate.

303
00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:57.899
And it's stuff that I missed the 1st time around.

304
00:15:58.019 --> 00:16:00.539
I think I keep saying it when you come back to Stephen Margaret

305
00:16:00.539 --> 00:16:03.600
episodes, you can keep coming back and finding new stuff year

306
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:04.500
after year after year.

307
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:08.279
There's density like there is with atoms writing as well.

308
00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:09.240
Yeah, there's things.

309
00:16:09.299 --> 00:16:10.860
I don't think he's as fun.

310
00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:12.059
Well, he is fun.

311
00:16:12.179 --> 00:16:15.480
He is as fun and he certainly has a manic quality more so than

312
00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:16.679
Douglas Adams, surprisingly.

313
00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:19.620
But I don't know that his complexity is as fluid.

314
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:21.360
And Adam's story.

315
00:16:21.419 --> 00:16:23.279
You can't, you can see, it's perfectly whole.

316
00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:26.039
There's really no other way this could have gone within its own

317
00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:29.399
tenets, but when you look at a Moffatt thing, I'm thinking, you're

318
00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:31.139
writing this at 4 in the morning, aren't you?

319
00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:35.399
And you're really, and the adrenaline's a lot of fun, but you're

320
00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:36.840
really just edging it.

321
00:16:36.899 --> 00:16:39.659
I think the paradox probably is.

322
00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:44.039
Douglas Adams seems to write character 1st and then sees what

323
00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:46.139
weird stuff he can fit in around that.

324
00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:50.580
Whereas Stephen Moffat, I think, is very much a plot 1st writer.

325
00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:53.820
He wants the plot to make as much sense as possible.

326
00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.340
And then he inserts the characters into it.

327
00:16:56.399 --> 00:17:00.179
So whereas Douglas Adams, if you like, is coming up with the theme

328
00:17:00.179 --> 00:17:03.600
park ride first, whereas Stephen Moffatt's going, yes, but what

329
00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:05.880
are the engineering tolerances of the roller coaster?

330
00:17:05.940 --> 00:17:09.180
I mean, Moffat's characters are very clearly drawn.

331
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:12.119
Like you know how Amy and Rory and the doctor are going to react

332
00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:14.519
to things. but that doesn't make them realistic.

333
00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:15.480
No.

334
00:17:15.539 --> 00:17:16.259
Oh, goodness.

335
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:20.700
Well, it's it's some, the Sarah Jane principle, again, if these

336
00:17:20.700 --> 00:17:24.720
characters were realistic, they would stay home, they would not be

337
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:28.440
putting up with this week after week, especially next year.

338
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:32.940
What would Harry and Sarah have done in a similar situation?

339
00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:38.519
Well, I mean, I think the thing is that there's much less whimsy

340
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:43.980
in season 12, it's really sort of gruelling and bleak and sort of

341
00:17:43.980 --> 00:17:49.859
horrendous and kind of realistic sort of action adventure

342
00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:53.819
realistic in that it's sort of drawing from Nazism and stuff like

343
00:17:53.819 --> 00:17:54.960
that all the way through.

344
00:17:55.019 --> 00:18:00.539
And so when we did season 12 and we were all on it together, I

345
00:18:00.539 --> 00:18:00.779
think.

346
00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:05.640
We kept observing just how awful this is and how are these people

347
00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:10.079
going through this and why did Sarah get back on board the TARDIS

348
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:12.240
at the end of Terror of the Zygons?

349
00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:15.180
Why doesn't she sort of punch him in the face and run screaming

350
00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:15.660
away from him?

351
00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.359
Which is the big difference because in this one they actually do

352
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:19.079
like each other.

353
00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:20.099
Yeah.

354
00:18:20.099 --> 00:18:23.460
Well, I mean, it seriously, I think Harry would have gone to make

355
00:18:23.460 --> 00:18:24.960
a cup of tea for 2000 years.

356
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:27.420
Just leave it.

357
00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:32.279
Talking about that point of 2000 years, I think that's just a

358
00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:36.900
beautiful moment, I just love, I had tears the 1st time through.

359
00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:40.500
I still get emotional when it talks about him guarding that and

360
00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:43.920
the night of the blitz or whatever and he's not been seen.

361
00:18:43.980 --> 00:18:46.019
I just, I adore that.

362
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:49.440
But then again, I adore Rory and Arthur Darville.

363
00:18:49.500 --> 00:18:52.319
I mean, it's his penance for shooting, Amy, isn't it?

364
00:18:52.380 --> 00:18:55.859
Like he has to be, in order to still be a good guy.

365
00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:57.599
He has to kind of go through that.

366
00:18:57.660 --> 00:19:01.019
But again, it's sort of very well told in the 2 time period.

367
00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:08.339
So we see it being set up, being decided in 102 AD, and then we

368
00:19:08.339 --> 00:19:11.400
hear Nicholas Briggs telling us, I'm assuming it's Nicholas Briggs

369
00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:16.500
telling us all about it in the museum 1900 years later. getting so

370
00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:22.619
many little windows into the Moffatt virtue, own home life. be

371
00:19:22.619 --> 00:19:23.160
screwed.

372
00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:30.180
It is amazing how it takes Rory 1900 years to go, you know what?

373
00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:31.500
Maybe I'll get rid of the skirt.

374
00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:34.140
Hey, maybe I'll get some modern clothes.

375
00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:36.960
I thought they were plastic, which is a way to stay in.

376
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:41.400
Bold vision of the future and it never needs ironing.

377
00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:55.019
But here at the museum, we've got Amy and Amelia, they get to hug

378
00:19:55.019 --> 00:19:57.059
each other or hold each other's hands.

379
00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:59.640
Isn't there some sort of effect that's supposed to happen with

380
00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:00.059
that?

381
00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.720
Lenovich limitation effect, but total event collapse, I'm afraid

382
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:04.559
trumps it.

383
00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:06.299
Yeah, that's my thing as well.

384
00:20:06.420 --> 00:20:08.940
But the Sonic screwdrivers do spark when they touch each other.

385
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:10.680
But that is 2000 years ago.

386
00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:13.859
So maybe 2000 years later, the universe is so small. that the

387
00:20:13.859 --> 00:20:16.079
Blinovic limitation effect doesn't happen anymore.

388
00:20:16.140 --> 00:20:17.819
Yes, maybe that's it.

389
00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:20.519
I mean, they don't annihilate each other. don't annihilate each

390
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:20.700
other.

391
00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:21.839
No reapers appear.

392
00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:27.660
They don't, you know, short out and kill a bunch of immortals and

393
00:20:27.660 --> 00:20:29.759
give Nicholas Courtney a nervous breakdown.

394
00:20:29.819 --> 00:20:30.359
No none of that.

395
00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:36.960
Did you notice the doctor's advice to Rory, which is stay away

396
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:39.660
from radio signals when they come because they'll make him

397
00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:41.099
suffocate Katie Manning?

398
00:20:41.220 --> 00:20:43.559
It's very subtle.

399
00:20:43.619 --> 00:20:46.259
I noticed it this time and I went, 0 my goodness, that's such a

400
00:20:46.259 --> 00:20:46.859
nod.

401
00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:49.140
He just says radio signals, doesn't he?

402
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:49.680
There's nothing.

403
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:51.539
Heaton radio signals. radio signals.

404
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:53.579
And then he says, and stay out of.

405
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.839
And it could have been a duel factory. anything.

406
00:20:57.900 --> 00:21:00.480
And then when he appears in the present, he says the word

407
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:00.960
trouble.

408
00:21:01.019 --> 00:21:04.680
So, you know, again, we've got that idea that the events are

409
00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:08.940
playing out over 2 time streams, absolutely rammed home so that

410
00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:10.859
you don't miss what's going on.

411
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:13.440
There's a couple of moments around here.

412
00:21:13.500 --> 00:21:19.619
Matt's look or the doctor's look on his face as Amy and Rory

413
00:21:19.619 --> 00:21:23.759
continue to kiss and hug is just hilarious.

414
00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:25.079
Breathe.

415
00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:29.819
I love Amy's little Amelia's take on it too.

416
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:32.880
He's definitely, it's one of those lovely moments, and there's

417
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:36.119
many of them in these 2 episodes where you can see the doctor is

418
00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:39.480
the 11 year old person watching the events of these so-called

419
00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:40.859
adults and just finding it all.

420
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:42.539
Very untidy.

421
00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:46.799
That drink is, of course, circular.

422
00:21:46.859 --> 00:21:47.819
It's a paradox.

423
00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:52.079
Like the reason that she needs a drink and asks for one is that he

424
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:55.140
took it away in the teaser and she wouldn't have been thirsty if

425
00:21:55.140 --> 00:21:56.160
he hadn't done that.

426
00:21:56.220 --> 00:21:59.400
So there's no actual reason for that to happen.

427
00:21:59.460 --> 00:22:02.940
And that is just stuck in there by Moffatt because he can.

428
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.839
Like, there's no doubt that he knows that that's what he's doing

429
00:22:06.900 --> 00:22:08.160
clever clogs.

430
00:22:08.220 --> 00:22:13.019
I just say like a, and I'll say it, oh, man. a walking cliche.

431
00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:15.240
I really disliked it the 1st time around.

432
00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:20.460
Yes, you're so clever that the doctor appears, you know, because

433
00:22:20.460 --> 00:22:24.480
the doctor appears in the past to get himself out of the Pandora

434
00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:26.640
then, oh, look, I've lost the plot.

435
00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:28.440
I'm sorry, but do you know what I'm saying?

436
00:22:28.500 --> 00:22:30.900
the fact that he has to come back from the future to get himself

437
00:22:30.900 --> 00:22:32.759
out of the past, but in the past.

438
00:22:32.819 --> 00:22:34.859
Oh, I just still can't explain it.

439
00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:36.839
I just, it does my head in.

440
00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:39.839
And I'm just struggling to explain any of it that right now and I

441
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:42.000
don't know how Nathan's going to even edit back.

442
00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:47.640
But I do think it's very clever and it works wonderfully well and

443
00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:48.900
I think you can get away with it once.

444
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:49.980
Yeah.

445
00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:50.759
Yeah.

446
00:22:50.819 --> 00:22:53.099
And I think this is a great moment.

447
00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:54.779
It is a great moment.

448
00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:57.779
I really do enjoy it even though my head just has my head in.

449
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:00.960
Look, I mean, he doesn't reach for it all that often and like a

450
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:06.359
normal, a normal sort of non-event episode will happen sort of in

451
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:10.559
a linear way and won't have the doctor sort of nipping back to fix

452
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:14.279
things, sort of Bill and Ted style in order to get out of

453
00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:16.079
something and maybe that would be tedious.

454
00:23:16.140 --> 00:23:18.839
But certainly it's, I think it's fun when it does happen here.

455
00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:19.799
Oh yeah.

456
00:23:31.859 --> 00:23:36.000
And how good does the Paradigm Dalek look in stone?

457
00:23:36.059 --> 00:23:37.920
Isn't it lovely?

458
00:23:37.980 --> 00:23:39.599
And we've not seen that finish yet.

459
00:23:39.660 --> 00:23:40.200
Have we?

460
00:23:40.259 --> 00:23:41.519
brand new one.

461
00:23:41.579 --> 00:23:42.299
That's right.

462
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:43.559
I'm looking forward to...

463
00:23:43.619 --> 00:23:44.519
Well, we've had bronze.

464
00:23:44.579 --> 00:23:48.359
Yep, and we've had do co...

465
00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:49.920
Now we've got.

466
00:23:49.980 --> 00:23:50.460
Yes, what?

467
00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:55.079
I can't wait for barnacles on their bottom for the seafaring

468
00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:56.519
episodes to come out next year.

469
00:23:56.579 --> 00:24:00.059
Well, that one that came out of the river in Dale Convasion of

470
00:24:00.059 --> 00:24:00.240
Earth.

471
00:24:00.299 --> 00:24:01.980
That's probably got barnacles.

472
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:03.059
Barnacles on its bottom.

473
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:06.779
But it's very nice to have a Dalek in the season finale because

474
00:24:06.779 --> 00:24:09.900
you know, we have to keep up that tradition as much as we possibly

475
00:24:09.900 --> 00:24:12.119
can, you know, even though we had a few where they haven't been

476
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:15.059
there, but, you know, more finales.

477
00:24:15.059 --> 00:24:20.039
Well, I was actually initially disappointed by this episode.

478
00:24:20.099 --> 00:24:22.079
I had the Todd experience.

479
00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:26.099
Because back in the day, yeah. title.

480
00:24:26.819 --> 00:24:28.619
Hot experience.

481
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:30.599
It's only good things, man.

482
00:24:30.660 --> 00:24:32.819
I've got to say, I did too.

483
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:35.460
I just thought it was messy and you're pulling all the strings out

484
00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:39.779
and it just felt like the 11 hour panic attack that you've got a

485
00:24:39.779 --> 00:24:40.380
script due.

486
00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:43.559
And when Russell did it, because we've seen this a lot in the last

487
00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:45.299
however many years we've been doing this show.

488
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:47.339
Russell was doing it constantly.

489
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:52.140
Maybe there was something that Brendan said in this Douglas Adams

490
00:24:52.140 --> 00:24:55.019
style and that the characters always came 1st and in this one it's

491
00:24:55.019 --> 00:24:55.440
plot.

492
00:24:55.500 --> 00:24:58.619
So even though we're familiar with them and we and we do love the

493
00:24:58.619 --> 00:25:00.839
people that are in it and that's what saves it.

494
00:25:00.900 --> 00:25:03.180
It's not the impetus for the action.

495
00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:09.000
So in any of the Russell fantasy acres, because they are that big

496
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:11.940
it's about the character and what's happening with the characters

497
00:25:11.940 --> 00:25:13.019
1st and foremost.

498
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:17.460
I still think the best one is the Dalek 2-parter at the end of

499
00:25:17.460 --> 00:25:21.119
Eccleston's 1st only series, that really makes it all work.

500
00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:23.759
Yeah, maybe that's why you weren't so captivated.

501
00:25:23.819 --> 00:25:25.259
It's not actually.

502
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:31.740
The reason is that I was after a big dumb spectacle and

503
00:25:31.740 --> 00:25:33.480
instead...

504
00:25:33.539 --> 00:25:34.200
I did.

505
00:25:34.259 --> 00:25:36.539
And instead, I had 4 people talking in a museum.

506
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:38.160
I promised a big bang.

507
00:25:38.220 --> 00:25:40.619
Yes, exactly. in the title.

508
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:44.640
And so even though the universe has been destroyed, like really

509
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:45.539
comprehensively.

510
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:49.380
I mean, it's a bigger end of episode 12 catastrophe than we've

511
00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:49.799
ever had.

512
00:25:49.859 --> 00:25:52.140
Suddenly we're all just sort of standing around talking.

513
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:54.539
But that's what Stephen Muffet does.

514
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:59.339
He doesn't do the big, huge spectacles in these episodes.

515
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:03.180
He brings it back to his core cast and you tend to have less

516
00:26:03.180 --> 00:26:05.579
periphery cast around and other things going on.

517
00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:08.640
But I actually do think this is his season.

518
00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:11.700
This is what has been in his head for a very long time and I do

519
00:26:11.700 --> 00:26:16.140
think that it is actually very well constructed and plotted out.

520
00:26:16.259 --> 00:26:19.740
And again, to harp on.

521
00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:23.460
It's like going back and rereading the novel and coming up with

522
00:26:23.460 --> 00:26:27.599
new or seeing all the answers for the 1st time or seeing answers

523
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:29.819
that were already there in plain sight, but you missed them

524
00:26:29.819 --> 00:26:32.400
because you were concentrating on other things and expecting had

525
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:33.839
other expectations, perhaps.

526
00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:34.500
Yeah.

527
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:37.920
I remember watching this in 2010.

528
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:42.180
And the scene where Amelia disappears.

529
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.900
I remember my exact thought was, this is the introspective

530
00:26:45.900 --> 00:26:46.559
finale.

531
00:26:46.619 --> 00:26:47.339
Yeah.

532
00:26:47.339 --> 00:26:52.079
So all of Russell's finales, as you say, it's big bangs, the world

533
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:52.980
is coming to an end.

534
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:57.119
There's things flying in the sky shooting lasers, whereas Stephen

535
00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:00.720
Moffat, I think, makes a conscious decision of, I'm sure I could

536
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:01.440
do more of the same.

537
00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:05.640
I'm sure I could do that, but it's going to invite comparison

538
00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:09.180
anyway to what the last 4 series have been.

539
00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:13.319
I am going to do something that is harder to directly compare.

540
00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:16.319
And I'm still going to have the big universal stakes.

541
00:27:16.380 --> 00:27:20.460
And, you know, he does 6 season finales.

542
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:24.900
And I would say 4 of them are this kind of introspective focussing

543
00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:27.960
on the lead characters and their relationships with each other

544
00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:30.059
with a very small guest cast.

545
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:34.799
Now, here, because in the last episode, we had a bunch of Romans

546
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:36.839
and this episode, we've got a wedding.

547
00:27:36.900 --> 00:27:43.200
It's not as noticeable as some of his later ones, but it's still

548
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:43.980
noticeable.

549
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:48.299
And for me, I was watching that, and I kind of went, oh, okay, it's

550
00:27:48.299 --> 00:27:51.720
not going to be a big alien invasion story, but I can accept that

551
00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:55.619
because it's consciously making that decision and it doesn't, it

552
00:27:55.619 --> 00:27:58.140
doesn't feel like Stephen Moffat going, oh, no, I can't do that

553
00:27:58.140 --> 00:28:00.119
because eventually he will do that and it'll be good.

554
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:04.200
But it's more Stephen Moffatt going, I'm a fan.

555
00:28:04.259 --> 00:28:05.460
I know what fans are like.

556
00:28:05.460 --> 00:28:10.319
If I try and do Russell's thing, people will either Gallifrey Base

557
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:13.200
will be split asunder by people saying that Moffatt did it better

558
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:16.019
or Russell did it better and I'll have to close it down for a few

559
00:28:16.019 --> 00:28:17.339
days again.

560
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:21.900
So rather than that, I'm going to do something that plays to my

561
00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:27.000
strengths and do something that focusses on basically my 3

562
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:30.359
regulars and my recurring character River song.

563
00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:37.079
So the other thing is that all of Davey's finales, once the big

564
00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:40.740
dumb spectacle is over, have a big character moment, and often

565
00:28:40.740 --> 00:28:43.859
that's because we've got a cast change or whatever at the end, but

566
00:28:43.859 --> 00:28:48.599
it's things calm down a bit, and then we have time to see where

567
00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:50.160
the characters all are as a result.

568
00:28:50.220 --> 00:28:55.440
Whereas this one, you know, we talk about the plot being the most

569
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:56.579
important thing here.

570
00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.240
But in many ways, the most important thing is Amy.

571
00:29:00.299 --> 00:29:02.220
And I've been saying this all year.

572
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:08.880
This is the story where Amy decides to accept being an adult.

573
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:12.539
And I haven't said this before, you know, the idea of a woman

574
00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:17.400
getting married as a the most important sign of adulthood is

575
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:18.779
obviously a problem.

576
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:23.579
But, yes. the sort of problem that is only going to get worse next

577
00:29:23.579 --> 00:29:24.359
year, I think.

578
00:29:24.420 --> 00:29:29.039
But in any case, she accepts her adulthood and then says no

579
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:30.839
actually, that's not enough.

580
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:34.680
I want childhood as well and calls the doctor back into

581
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:35.220
existence.

582
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:38.460
And so that's the point of this.

583
00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:44.460
And Moffatt's finales are much, much more centred around the

584
00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:45.900
characters.

585
00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:50.099
And what's happening to the characters, even if they are sort of

586
00:29:50.099 --> 00:29:53.099
science fiction, things like the hybrid or being turned into a

587
00:29:53.099 --> 00:29:57.420
Spiderman or something like that, something very serious centres

588
00:29:57.420 --> 00:30:03.539
the story on the characters in a way that, you know, Daleks invade

589
00:30:03.539 --> 00:30:08.940
Canary Wharf isn't about any of the characters, particularly.

590
00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:14.819
But I guess with all the Russell finales, there is like, you know

591
00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:19.859
there's somebody leaving every year in a different way and that

592
00:30:19.859 --> 00:30:24.059
happens right at the end after that big spectacle.

593
00:30:24.420 --> 00:30:28.740
It's always been writing dark, hasn't it?

594
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:33.299
He's always been writing, it's a sin. ever since Queer as Folk.

595
00:30:33.420 --> 00:30:36.059
I just thought it was fun and jolly because it was Doctor Who.

596
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:37.019
No, really wasn't.

597
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:37.859
No, no.

598
00:30:37.859 --> 00:30:41.880
Nothing this nice ever happens to people in Russell's universe.

599
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:43.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

600
00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:45.059
This is actually nice.

601
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:47.880
Yeah, people are happy, Russell.

602
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:51.779
Go on to nice lives.

603
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:53.460
Russell.

604
00:30:53.460 --> 00:30:59.039
In, in, in regards to people leaving sort of once a year, now

605
00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:02.880
having the complete RTD era and the complete Moffat irritable back

606
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:03.119
on.

607
00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:07.559
As a producer who decides the cast.

608
00:31:07.619 --> 00:31:09.180
Russell is actually quite ruthless.

609
00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:15.420
Because series one, obviously Christopher Eccleston leaves, so

610
00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:18.960
Billy Piper has to stay on, but they did film an ending where Rose

611
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:22.319
died and they did plan another ending where Rose left.

612
00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:25.140
Then Rose leaves at the end of series too.

613
00:31:25.259 --> 00:31:29.460
Freema is contracted for half of series four, but they decide the

614
00:31:29.460 --> 00:31:32.160
character's not working so writer out of Doctor Who and have her

615
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:34.559
as a have her as a guest role elsewhere.

616
00:31:34.619 --> 00:31:36.299
And Catherine Tate.

617
00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:38.640
They wrote her out without even asking whether she would have

618
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:43.319
continued because they realised they were having so much fun, but

619
00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:45.180
they're like, oh, we've already written her out.

620
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:47.039
But then afterwards they said to her, oh, we would have loved you

621
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:47.400
to stay on.

622
00:31:47.460 --> 00:31:48.660
She's like, of course I would have stayed on.

623
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:49.500
Why didn't you ask me?

624
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:54.900
So Russell kind of goes, okay, no, I have my unit of the companion

625
00:31:54.900 --> 00:31:56.880
story that is being told and then you're out.

626
00:31:56.940 --> 00:31:59.039
Whereas twice.

627
00:31:59.099 --> 00:32:05.220
Moffatt has his companions, writes a perfect ending for them, but

628
00:32:05.220 --> 00:32:06.420
then the actor wants to stay on.

629
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:07.559
So he's like, oh, okay.

630
00:32:07.619 --> 00:32:11.039
On you go, arguably to their detriment.

631
00:32:11.099 --> 00:32:11.759
Yeah.

632
00:32:11.819 --> 00:32:17.460
Um, But I've noticed a symmetry to this episode surrounding the

633
00:32:17.460 --> 00:32:18.000
companions.

634
00:32:18.059 --> 00:32:20.460
So the story starts with Amelia slash Amy.

635
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:24.660
Then Rory is in the story, then the doctor is in the story, then

636
00:32:24.660 --> 00:32:29.640
river, then river disappears, and the doctor is going back through

637
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:33.240
his timeline, and then we end on Amy and Rory, and then the last

638
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:36.299
shot of the episode before the TARDIS flies off into the opening

639
00:32:36.299 --> 00:32:37.920
title sequence, which is amazing.

640
00:32:37.980 --> 00:32:39.900
Is Amy looking up?

641
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:43.380
It's got this pyramid structure.

642
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:44.819
But is it digetic?

643
00:32:45.420 --> 00:32:50.099
Well, something I did notice that's digetic in that symmetry. is

644
00:32:50.099 --> 00:32:54.539
when Amelia disappears in the foyer of the museum.

645
00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:58.259
Rory runs down the stairs shouting, Amelia, Amelia.

646
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:00.779
Then the doctor from the future appears at the top of the stairs

647
00:33:00.779 --> 00:33:01.140
falls down.

648
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:02.519
They run upstairs, do all the thing.

649
00:33:02.579 --> 00:33:06.000
When they come back down, the dying doctor is gone, and Rory runs

650
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:07.619
down the stairs screaming doctor, doctor.

651
00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:08.519
Right, right.

652
00:33:08.579 --> 00:33:09.299
It's very nice.

653
00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:10.319
It's very nice.

654
00:33:10.380 --> 00:33:14.400
And I think Arthur Darvel even faces left, then faces right in

655
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:15.059
both occasions.

656
00:33:15.779 --> 00:33:21.539
See, that is how clever Stephen Moffatt is, and you don't always

657
00:33:21.539 --> 00:33:24.720
see that until somebody like yourself points it out and you think

658
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:25.259
0 my goodness.

659
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:28.380
Absolute Uber fan child.

660
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:30.119
I just say something at this point.

661
00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:34.079
I do get annoyed with Matt Smith having to talk into the ear of

662
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:36.119
that very bad doctor double.

663
00:33:36.299 --> 00:33:40.799
Like it just takes me out of that moment every single time.

664
00:33:40.859 --> 00:33:42.839
I go, that is not Matt Smith.

665
00:33:42.900 --> 00:33:44.039
The hair is all wrong.

666
00:33:44.099 --> 00:33:48.000
That's Edward Watts's bum from Edmund Warwick.

667
00:33:48.359 --> 00:33:52.619
Well, have you seen the guy in the Doctor Who Confidential who's

668
00:33:52.619 --> 00:33:53.339
Matt Smith's double?

669
00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:53.640
No.

670
00:33:53.700 --> 00:33:54.720
He's like twice his age.

671
00:33:55.140 --> 00:33:57.599
Everyone is twice.

672
00:33:57.599 --> 00:33:58.140
That's true.

673
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:00.720
But yeah, he's he's Matt Smith's stunt double.

674
00:34:00.779 --> 00:34:01.619
He did the horse riding.

675
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:03.779
Oh, like...

676
00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:05.700
He kicked all the goals.

677
00:34:10.139 --> 00:34:12.239
Harsh but fair.

678
00:34:12.300 --> 00:34:14.760
And Caitlin Blackwood, but we don't.

679
00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:17.519
That's why Matt needed to use time double next year.

680
00:34:17.579 --> 00:34:22.079
That's you if you ever go into television front of camera.

681
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:23.400
What, me, Caitlin Blackwood?

682
00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:25.800
We've seen you do the frog.

683
00:34:25.860 --> 00:34:29.460
Actually, who wants to see right in, dear listener, if you want to

684
00:34:29.460 --> 00:34:31.199
see Brendan do Amelia Pond.

685
00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:35.880
It's a thing, now say it 3 times quick.

686
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:39.360
He's doing it.

687
00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:40.619
You doing it now, aren't you, though?

688
00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:42.059
You're doing it now. wearing it now.

689
00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:01.559
So, after we get rid of the dead fake Dr. Deadwood.

690
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:02.820
Oh no, that's Russell.

691
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:04.619
We go up to the roof.

692
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:09.900
And I didn't pick it that the sun was going to be...

693
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:12.059
We haven't had river.

694
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:14.460
We get that wonderful lime or what sort of time do you call this

695
00:35:14.460 --> 00:35:16.199
when the doctor actually appears in the time?

696
00:35:16.260 --> 00:35:16.619
Yeah, yeah.

697
00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:17.639
He says, hi, honey, I'm home.

698
00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:20.099
I mean, and that's the thing too.

699
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:21.840
The mystery of who River is.

700
00:35:21.900 --> 00:35:24.000
Could she possibly be the doctor's wife?

701
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:25.139
Guess what?

702
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:26.340
You know?

703
00:35:26.340 --> 00:35:27.960
Yeah.

704
00:35:28.019 --> 00:35:30.300
And that's the Moffat approach.

705
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:31.440
Missy is the master.

706
00:35:31.500 --> 00:35:32.639
Like, who else could she be?

707
00:35:32.699 --> 00:35:37.199
He just, these mysteries are not fun to resolve.

708
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:39.360
And so he resolves them in the most obvious way.

709
00:35:39.420 --> 00:35:41.219
Could have been the Mistress Romana.

710
00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:44.760
Yes, please.

711
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:46.920
Yes, please.

712
00:35:46.980 --> 00:35:50.039
But this is the thing. is Paul Cornell talking to Stephen Moffat

713
00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:52.500
now because this is, we've done it.

714
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:54.539
We've said it so many times before, haven't we?

715
00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:55.679
This is Benny.

716
00:35:55.739 --> 00:35:56.760
Yes.

717
00:35:56.820 --> 00:36:00.059
I mean, really, really is Benny to the point that why do we need a

718
00:36:00.059 --> 00:36:00.659
river salt?

719
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:03.960
I just listened to an episode of Doctor Who, the Writer's Room

720
00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:08.699
where they did Timeworm Revelation, and they were constantly

721
00:36:08.699 --> 00:36:13.619
drawing parallels between Cornell and Moffatt's concerns.

722
00:36:13.619 --> 00:36:14.940
Styles, actually.

723
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:15.840
Yeah, yeah.

724
00:36:15.900 --> 00:36:19.920
And they were friends and, you know, they got to know each other

725
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:23.699
over the writing. cats when they passed each other now.

726
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:26.579
Did they go to Tavern together and stuff?

727
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:27.179
Yeah, they did.

728
00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:29.039
They knew each other for a while.

729
00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:34.559
And so a lot of the staff that Moffatt does is stuff that Cornell

730
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:36.780
did during the wilderness years as well.

731
00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:40.260
Yeah, very, well, you can see this is, I was actually going to say

732
00:36:40.260 --> 00:36:44.639
I'm really enjoying these lovely fanfic productions that the BBC

733
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:48.539
is kindly donating cash to the last few years.

734
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:50.699
This just feels like another one of them.

735
00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:54.599
This is honestly all the lads who were, and it is mostly lads we

736
00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:57.480
really need to say to the point that it'd be nice to see a lady

737
00:36:57.480 --> 00:36:58.199
writers.

738
00:36:59.219 --> 00:37:00.300
Yeah, more than maybe once.

739
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:03.480
It is something that Moffatt became very conscious of towards the

740
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:06.360
end of his time and went to some lengths to try and rectify.

741
00:37:06.420 --> 00:37:09.900
And then I think Chibnall has taken that even further by hiring

742
00:37:09.900 --> 00:37:13.440
more female directors and writers than sort of ever before.

743
00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:16.800
Yeah, even in the 90s, we had a Kate Orman, didn't we?

744
00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:17.099
We did.

745
00:37:17.099 --> 00:37:20.940
Getting increasingly annoyed with each passing novel that she was

746
00:37:20.940 --> 00:37:24.300
the only woman writing for the range and her about the author's

747
00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:24.659
action.

748
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:27.780
What even has Kate Orban is still the only woman to have written a

749
00:37:27.780 --> 00:37:29.519
new adventure, drums, fingers.

750
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:32.760
I think that's on the back of sleep.

751
00:37:32.820 --> 00:37:36.360
I can see I can see that Moffatt's right, rubbing his hands

752
00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:38.099
together, just as Russell did right.

753
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:39.840
Now we can do everything at once.

754
00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:42.900
So does that, is that the sense that you're getting from this

755
00:37:42.900 --> 00:37:43.199
episode?

756
00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:45.059
All my Christmases at once.

757
00:37:45.179 --> 00:37:48.480
Well, I mean, the new adventures did do the time things.

758
00:37:48.539 --> 00:37:51.420
You know, the doctor going back, there are a few new adventures

759
00:37:51.420 --> 00:37:56.340
that end with the doctor going back to put things in place so

760
00:37:56.340 --> 00:37:58.199
that...

761
00:37:58.260 --> 00:38:01.019
See Brendan's probably read them more recently than the rest of

762
00:38:01.019 --> 00:38:01.139
us.

763
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:03.420
Oh, I'm stuck on the pit at the moment.

764
00:38:04.019 --> 00:38:07.920
But at the... we call it.

765
00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:09.599
That's a big.

766
00:38:10.380 --> 00:38:12.659
That's meals.

767
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:15.059
We just did the hands deal with them.

768
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:16.199
We just did the hands.

769
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:17.400
I think I ever got through that.

770
00:38:17.460 --> 00:38:18.480
No, terrible.

771
00:38:18.539 --> 00:38:21.719
I'm thinking of just putting it down so I can move on to deceit, I

772
00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:22.260
think, is next.

773
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:23.400
I didn't finish it either.

774
00:38:23.460 --> 00:38:26.400
You will have the same experience with deceit. fair enough.

775
00:38:26.460 --> 00:38:30.119
I can't remember who it's doing, but I will send you the link

776
00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:30.480
Nathan.

777
00:38:30.539 --> 00:38:33.960
There has just been a fan production of The Pit released.

778
00:38:34.019 --> 00:38:38.340
So I may I may just listen to that because it's going to be better

779
00:38:38.340 --> 00:38:38.940
than the novel.

780
00:38:39.059 --> 00:38:39.780
Well, yeah.

781
00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:43.500
Can I bring things back to the roof?

782
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:44.340
Yeah.

783
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:44.820
Yes.

784
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:50.340
Because the doctor and river obviously get out of the TARDIS with

785
00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:51.960
the time vortex manipulator.

786
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:56.280
So she's up there with Amy and the plastic centurion.

787
00:38:56.340 --> 00:38:58.139
Her parents, right?

788
00:38:58.199 --> 00:38:58.860
Yeah.

789
00:38:58.920 --> 00:38:59.699
Which, sorry.

790
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:00.960
Spoiler alert.

791
00:39:01.019 --> 00:39:04.559
But it's like, at this point in time, Alex Kingston wouldn't have

792
00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:04.800
known.

793
00:39:04.860 --> 00:39:07.320
I wonder if Moffatt knew.

794
00:39:07.380 --> 00:39:08.159
Maybe he knew.

795
00:39:08.219 --> 00:39:11.639
I don't know, it always annoys me a little that you never get any

796
00:39:11.639 --> 00:39:14.280
sort of subtle thing where she'll give a slight look or something

797
00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:15.960
knowing that they are her parents.

798
00:39:16.019 --> 00:39:17.039
Do you know what I mean?

799
00:39:17.099 --> 00:39:20.039
Like, I mean, if you if you told the actress, it would, of course

800
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:24.900
then influence her performance, but I just kind of sometimes feel

801
00:39:24.900 --> 00:39:30.300
like that river's ability to completely not give anything away is

802
00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:31.380
just too good an act.

803
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:31.920
Yeah.

804
00:39:31.980 --> 00:39:35.579
But, you know, she does get to say what in the name of sanity have

805
00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:36.420
you got on your head?

806
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:38.099
I love that.

807
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:41.099
Well, and that miss... love.

808
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:44.280
Oh, the fairs is so great, but it is that thing where she's his

809
00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:48.780
wife and he's an idiot and she doesn't want him to look like an

810
00:39:48.780 --> 00:39:49.260
idiot.

811
00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:51.179
And so she puts a stop to him.

812
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:55.260
Like, both of the women, like, doesn't Amy take the fez and throw

813
00:39:55.260 --> 00:39:57.059
it in the air so that River can shoot it.

814
00:39:57.119 --> 00:39:59.880
And then that will happen at the beginning of next year with the

815
00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:00.780
Stetson as well.

816
00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:05.699
She's constantly intervening to stop her husband looking like an

817
00:40:05.699 --> 00:40:06.780
idiot in public.

818
00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:11.219
And it's the most wifely thing that I can kind of imagine.

819
00:40:11.460 --> 00:40:17.159
On the topic of whether Alex Kingston, new or not, in Babylon 5

820
00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:18.780
which, of course, Nathan, you've never heard of.

821
00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:19.500
Yeah, what is it?

822
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:26.099
Of course, that had a five-year story arc, but the actors were

823
00:40:26.099 --> 00:40:31.320
never informed of what the story arc was because the writer JMS

824
00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:34.980
said, if you know that your character will eventually lead to the

825
00:40:34.980 --> 00:40:36.179
downfall of your civilisation.

826
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:38.460
You might play that early on.

827
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:41.280
And the whole point of your character is they think they're doing

828
00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:43.139
the right thing and it leads them down this dark path.

829
00:40:43.260 --> 00:40:45.599
This is Hellenic theatre.

830
00:40:45.659 --> 00:40:47.340
Wow, isn't it?

831
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:50.340
Gods cannot divulge.

832
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:51.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

833
00:40:51.780 --> 00:40:54.539
And I think that gods have been canine because he's the day of

834
00:40:54.539 --> 00:40:54.840
six.

835
00:40:56.400 --> 00:40:58.440
Canis X-Machina.

836
00:40:58.500 --> 00:40:59.699
I am your daughter.

837
00:41:01.739 --> 00:41:03.659
I have your what?

838
00:41:05.340 --> 00:41:08.400
Can you imagine John Leeson in these things?

839
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:10.320
Max Kingston.

840
00:41:10.380 --> 00:41:12.000
He wouldn't, it'd be fantastic.

841
00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:14.579
I think it would be literally no different at all.

842
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:16.320
Dr. Bank's fault.

843
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:17.159
Messi.

844
00:41:17.219 --> 00:41:18.300
I am K man.

845
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:25.139
Oh, Nathan, we're not going to do any...

846
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:27.900
I'm going to leave it up to the 2 professionals.

847
00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:33.000
But the other thing about whether Moffat knew at this point is he

848
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:36.840
has since said the title, The Big Bang, is a direct reference to

849
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:38.639
this is the night that Melody was conceived.

850
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:42.840
Oh, I really did not want to know.

851
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:48.539
But no, he said he said he when he was thinking of a title, he

852
00:41:48.539 --> 00:41:52.559
came up with that title thinking of Amy and Rory's honeymoon

853
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:56.099
rather than Big Bang 2 and then he remembered, oh, I've got the

854
00:41:56.099 --> 00:41:57.000
Big Bang 2 in the script.

855
00:41:57.059 --> 00:42:01.139
I thought that the party was a big bang as well, and that was a

856
00:42:01.139 --> 00:42:02.039
sort of a double meaning.

857
00:42:02.099 --> 00:42:02.820
A nice reading.

858
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:03.420
Yeah.

859
00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:07.199
It's absolutely a sitcom relationship, isn't it?

860
00:42:07.260 --> 00:42:10.619
They get married and then have sex and then she gets pregnant

861
00:42:10.619 --> 00:42:11.340
immediately.

862
00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:15.179
You know, it's classic sort of collapsing of time.

863
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:16.860
WandaVision, isn't it?

864
00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:20.280
And and, you know, the thing where you come back next season and

865
00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:23.460
the baby is like, you know, can talk and stuff like that.

866
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:26.880
Like again, absolute sort of sitcom staff.

867
00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:30.360
And they've avoided the awkward point where they have to put Karen

868
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:34.860
Gillan in a lab coat with tools that she never uses despite the

869
00:42:34.860 --> 00:42:35.820
fact she's an end.

870
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:37.079
Oh, sorry, that's Voyager.

871
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:42.059
I like that we keep looping back to the roof just like it's the

872
00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:42.480
episode.

873
00:42:42.780 --> 00:42:46.739
Well, that is the fulcrum point of the episode. still hasn't had

874
00:42:46.739 --> 00:42:47.519
his roof moment.

875
00:42:48.059 --> 00:42:49.500
Go on.

876
00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:50.940
What are you talking about?

877
00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:52.619
We keep coming back to the roof.

878
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:54.300
Well, we're now going to go down from the roof.

879
00:42:54.300 --> 00:42:59.159
Okay, did we work out why the TARDIS has taken 16000000000 years

880
00:42:59.159 --> 00:42:59.820
to explode?

881
00:42:59.940 --> 00:43:01.920
Because it's all happening at the same time.

882
00:43:01.980 --> 00:43:04.500
It's 3 points in history.

883
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:05.159
Yeah.

884
00:43:05.219 --> 00:43:07.380
According to the quantum field, exists all at once.

885
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:11.159
Also, much like this point. space reasons.

886
00:43:11.219 --> 00:43:14.340
And I just listened to the hollows of time this week by

887
00:43:14.340 --> 00:43:19.800
Christopher Hamilton bid mead, which has a quantum gravity engine

888
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:22.320
but it's basically just space reasons.

889
00:43:22.380 --> 00:43:22.860
Yeah.

890
00:43:22.860 --> 00:43:24.480
Well, I mean, this is...

891
00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:26.760
I've never come on this podcast, you know.

892
00:43:26.820 --> 00:43:28.079
I mean, this has been medium.

893
00:43:28.139 --> 00:43:31.380
This is like the collapse of the architecture in Castra Valva. as

894
00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:33.059
castravalva folds in on itself.

895
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:38.280
And it's also like that eccentric space in Warrior's Gate.

896
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:43.320
So there's a very sort of mid median feel to this and that's

897
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:44.639
that's a good thing.

898
00:43:44.699 --> 00:43:49.619
But unlike Bidmead, Moffat acknowledges that essentially this is

899
00:43:49.619 --> 00:43:53.639
just magic that you can recreate things that have been lost

900
00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:55.739
through memory and so on.

901
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:59.579
You know, the reason Rory comes back not as a plastic auton is

902
00:43:59.579 --> 00:44:02.519
because Amy really loved him and remembered him very well.

903
00:44:02.579 --> 00:44:05.099
Magic is just science unexplained.

904
00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:10.260
Well, no magic is manipulating symbols in order to manipulate

905
00:44:10.260 --> 00:44:10.679
reality.

906
00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:12.900
We've actually got to Oprah now.

907
00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:14.039
No, I'm serious.

908
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:15.119
We've actually got to new age.

909
00:44:15.179 --> 00:44:18.000
I don't know how hippie woo-woo Moffatt really is.

910
00:44:18.059 --> 00:44:22.739
I suspect he isn't, but all of this contemplation is the new age

911
00:44:22.739 --> 00:44:27.480
spiritualism, the Ecart Toll, the things we don't tend to talk

912
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:28.860
about on the podcast.

913
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:32.820
Everything you've just talked about is how they discuss, how the

914
00:44:32.820 --> 00:44:35.639
new age, and it's a big thing and a lot of people are into it now

915
00:44:35.699 --> 00:44:39.119
not just a little, not just a little fringe thing anymore, but you

916
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:40.559
know, New York Times bestsellers.

917
00:44:40.619 --> 00:44:43.199
Yeah, and Carol, Miss, and all of those folk, they talk about the

918
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:45.539
quantum field as being everything relevant and everything

919
00:44:45.539 --> 00:44:49.260
happening at once, and that is why wish fulfilment.

920
00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:50.639
And there's a lot.

921
00:44:50.699 --> 00:44:54.300
A lot of people have done it, made a lot out of, if you believe in

922
00:44:54.300 --> 00:44:57.599
it, hard enough, and you push yourself. you truly pursue it.

923
00:44:57.659 --> 00:44:58.260
It will come to you.

924
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:01.500
And if you like to surf and turf in that order.

925
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:06.539
But it's also the logic of narrative where you can use words and

926
00:45:06.539 --> 00:45:11.099
manipulate symbols in order to create a world and make events

927
00:45:11.099 --> 00:45:11.519
happen.

928
00:45:11.579 --> 00:45:14.039
And Moffatt is all about story.

929
00:45:14.099 --> 00:45:18.420
And as a storyteller, he has the power to bring something back

930
00:45:18.420 --> 00:45:19.800
that's been forgotten.

931
00:45:19.860 --> 00:45:22.619
And I think.

932
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:23.579
Is it the doctor?

933
00:45:23.639 --> 00:45:28.380
It's, no, it's, it's Amy realises that the doctor was trying to

934
00:45:28.380 --> 00:45:35.340
get her to sort of bring him back into being through her words at

935
00:45:35.340 --> 00:45:35.880
the wedding.

936
00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:37.980
And that's absolutely magic.

937
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:39.360
That's conjuring, you know.

938
00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:42.000
But let's go back to the roof.

939
00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:46.380
So we've gone up the ladder to the roof, but now we're coming back

940
00:45:46.380 --> 00:45:52.139
down and it's river versus the Dalek, which I just adore that

941
00:45:52.139 --> 00:45:52.500
scene.

942
00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:55.440
Like it's sort of a parallel to the doctor, you know, look me up

943
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:55.679
you know.

944
00:45:55.739 --> 00:45:58.320
Yeah, yeah, see Mercy with the Dalek.

945
00:45:58.380 --> 00:46:02.579
And then, of course, Amy and Rory discover that the doctor is not

946
00:46:02.579 --> 00:46:05.280
lying on the steps and River says, well, the doctor lies.

947
00:46:05.340 --> 00:46:05.820
Rule one.

948
00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:08.880
So we're coming back to something that Stephen's been setting up

949
00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:09.360
for some time.

950
00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:12.960
Can we talk about the confrontation with the dalek though?

951
00:46:13.019 --> 00:46:13.440
Sure.

952
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:15.360
It's amazingly well shot.

953
00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:18.599
So you've got Dutch angles, you've got the camera moving in on

954
00:46:18.599 --> 00:46:19.380
both of them.

955
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:24.480
And it is clearly intended to set up the themes of the next season

956
00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:31.860
by having her just kill a dalek and cold blood.

957
00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:35.579
And, you know, shooting Daleks, I think, is a fine thing to do.

958
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:37.860
You know, it seems perfectly moral to me.

959
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:42.360
But here, it is a sign that she's a bit of a psychopath.

960
00:46:42.420 --> 00:46:43.800
And she taunts it.

961
00:46:43.860 --> 00:46:44.519
She torments it.

962
00:46:44.579 --> 00:46:45.960
It's the gloating.

963
00:46:46.019 --> 00:46:50.219
It's not necessarily the act of killing Dalek itself because...

964
00:46:50.219 --> 00:46:52.139
She's the doctor in this one.

965
00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:55.619
Yeah, well, but the Dalek has killed her husband just now.

966
00:46:55.679 --> 00:46:58.739
I mean, you know, like has shot him dead.

967
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:01.320
And so, you know, I'd be annoyed.

968
00:47:01.380 --> 00:47:03.840
Back to Greek theatre again, aren't we?

969
00:47:03.900 --> 00:47:05.460
Yeah, she's allowed to take revenge.

970
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:06.420
It's proper.

971
00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:08.519
But we get down to the Pandorica.

972
00:47:08.579 --> 00:47:13.679
And I love the way Matt, the lighting and how he shot while he's

973
00:47:13.679 --> 00:47:14.099
in that.

974
00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:16.019
Yeah, lovely bluey green.

975
00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:17.699
Doesn't he look like Prince Philip?

976
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:19.380
He really does.

977
00:47:19.500 --> 00:47:20.460
Like not right now.

978
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:25.559
But, you know, just the whole conversations down there

979
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:28.139
explanations like, you know, to Pandora, a restoration field

980
00:47:28.139 --> 00:47:32.099
powered by an exploding TARDIS at every point in history and, and

981
00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:34.739
you know, talking to Amy about, you know, the girl who waited and

982
00:47:34.739 --> 00:47:39.239
bringing back all, you know, talking to her about the mum and dad

983
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:40.860
you know, I lost my mum and dad.

984
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:45.119
There's just so much richness in the explanations and what's going

985
00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:45.360
on.

986
00:47:45.420 --> 00:47:47.820
It's pulling everything together, unless you may not agree with

987
00:47:47.820 --> 00:47:48.000
me.

988
00:47:48.059 --> 00:47:48.719
No, no.

989
00:47:48.780 --> 00:47:52.920
I think the really interesting moment is the moment that Amy

990
00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:58.079
realises for the 1st time that she doesn't know what happened to

991
00:47:58.079 --> 00:47:58.679
her parents.

992
00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:02.760
And because it's never come up in the narrative, we assume that

993
00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:05.519
there's a real story that we don't know about.

994
00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:07.860
But that's not how narrative works.

995
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:09.059
There's no real world.

996
00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:10.920
There's no fact of the matter.

997
00:48:10.980 --> 00:48:13.860
And so the fact that it's never been mentioned what happened to

998
00:48:13.860 --> 00:48:18.599
her parents ends up being a sign that no one actually knows.

999
00:48:18.780 --> 00:48:24.300
And we've seen the crack in her wall, suck people up. and no one

1000
00:48:24.300 --> 00:48:28.380
remembers them right back in sort of episode five.

1001
00:48:28.440 --> 00:48:32.219
And so that's where we discover what happened to Amy's parents.

1002
00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:35.699
But it's Moffatt does this all the time.

1003
00:48:35.699 --> 00:48:39.960
And in a way that I think annoys people who love the universe.

1004
00:48:40.019 --> 00:48:42.960
You know, there's an imagined universe that's consistent in which

1005
00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:44.460
all these stories take place.

1006
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:49.079
Moffatt absolutely not only doesn't care about that, but is its

1007
00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:50.219
active enemy.

1008
00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:54.780
I think he's meta-ing the doctor and the construction of the last

1009
00:48:54.780 --> 00:48:58.800
30 years of something of Doctor Who in that you just keep

1010
00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:01.559
forgetting your own past obliquely and very quickly.

1011
00:49:01.619 --> 00:49:02.219
Yeah.

1012
00:49:02.219 --> 00:49:06.179
I also think calling the doctor back into existence is what

1013
00:49:06.179 --> 00:49:09.420
they've been doing for the last five, 6 years.

1014
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:13.139
How generous of the BBC to find so much fan fiction.

1015
00:49:14.579 --> 00:49:17.340
Because that's all this is to me, really.

1016
00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:18.840
I have to say it out bad.

1017
00:49:18.900 --> 00:49:20.400
When someone says, do you want to talk to who I got?

1018
00:49:20.460 --> 00:49:22.380
Oh, yes, I just watched Seeds of Doom the other day.

1019
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:23.099
What?

1020
00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:26.340
That is doctor.

1021
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:32.159
The way Matt underplays that scene.

1022
00:49:32.219 --> 00:49:33.119
He does, doesn't he?

1023
00:49:33.179 --> 00:49:34.440
is beautiful.

1024
00:49:34.500 --> 00:49:38.460
It's tempting to make the joke that Tennant would have done it

1025
00:49:38.460 --> 00:49:40.440
with lots of teeth breathing and what have you.

1026
00:49:40.500 --> 00:49:44.639
But Tennant was capable of underplaying things, like in gridlock

1027
00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:47.940
when he's talking about galafray, but even that is kind of

1028
00:49:47.940 --> 00:49:50.400
heightened compared to what Matt Smith is doing here.

1029
00:49:50.460 --> 00:49:55.559
Matt Smith here, he's talking about sacrificing himself to save

1030
00:49:55.559 --> 00:50:00.840
Amy's parents, whom he has never met, plus the universe, plus the

1031
00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:01.199
universe.

1032
00:50:01.260 --> 00:50:04.440
But there's no...

1033
00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:05.519
I could have done so much more.

1034
00:50:05.579 --> 00:50:07.440
There's no I don't want to go.

1035
00:50:07.500 --> 00:50:10.920
There is, this is the right thing to do and I'm the only one

1036
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:13.380
capable of doing it and you're going to have a wonderful life.

1037
00:50:13.500 --> 00:50:17.340
It's also like that 12 minute speech earlier on, you know, if 12

1038
00:50:17.340 --> 00:50:18.300
minutes left to live.

1039
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:20.159
You can do a lot in 12 minutes, very short bath.

1040
00:50:20.219 --> 00:50:24.420
You know, like there's no there's no kind of mopey weepiness about

1041
00:50:24.420 --> 00:50:25.139
all of that.

1042
00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:26.400
It's refreshing.

1043
00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:41.820
We're about 17 minutes or something like that from the end of the

1044
00:50:41.820 --> 00:50:45.300
episode, and, you know, everything's resolved and back to normal.

1045
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:49.500
So the plot has ended in a sense, but the story hasn't ended.

1046
00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:54.119
And so the next 7 minutes we rewind through the doctor's life, but

1047
00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:56.880
it's not really the doctor's life that we rewind through, is that

1048
00:50:56.880 --> 00:50:58.860
it's Amy's story.

1049
00:50:58.920 --> 00:50:59.760
Yeah.

1050
00:50:59.820 --> 00:51:01.980
And it's the story of this season.

1051
00:51:02.039 --> 00:51:05.400
And he explicitly says actually, I'm popping off before we get to

1052
00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:07.559
the end of time part two.

1053
00:51:07.619 --> 00:51:08.099
Thanks.

1054
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:10.380
No fares.

1055
00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:14.340
But then we go back to the forest in flesh and stone with that

1056
00:51:14.340 --> 00:51:18.719
particular scene, that seemed out of place at the time or not as

1057
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:22.260
avid fans would know.

1058
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:26.159
And we go back, obviously, to, I mean, this house the night she

1059
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:27.119
waited for the doctor.

1060
00:51:27.179 --> 00:51:31.019
And he came and he actually came and put it to bed.

1061
00:51:31.079 --> 00:51:34.199
And that is the scene that makes me ugly cry.

1062
00:51:34.260 --> 00:51:40.139
Every time when he puts her to bed and tells her a story and then

1063
00:51:40.139 --> 00:51:41.940
says, I don't belong here anymore.

1064
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:42.599
I'm going to go.

1065
00:51:42.659 --> 00:51:44.400
It's so beautifully done.

1066
00:51:44.519 --> 00:51:46.619
And it's played.

1067
00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:47.820
It's absolutely played.

1068
00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:50.280
Like, this is his last speech before he goes.

1069
00:51:50.340 --> 00:51:55.139
But we later discover there's another meaning to that story

1070
00:51:55.139 --> 00:51:59.639
because he tells the story of the Tartars and it does the most

1071
00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:01.440
clever thing with it, I think.

1072
00:52:01.500 --> 00:52:02.519
Which is?

1073
00:52:02.579 --> 00:52:06.239
Well, you know, there's something old, something new. something

1074
00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:11.760
borrowed, something blue, that old wedding thing, as Rory calls

1075
00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:12.239
it.

1076
00:52:12.300 --> 00:52:14.519
You know, we all know that.

1077
00:52:14.579 --> 00:52:19.739
And applying that to the Tartars is so perfect and I don't know of

1078
00:52:19.739 --> 00:52:21.179
anyone having done it before.

1079
00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:24.059
No, it's so obvious when you see it.

1080
00:52:24.119 --> 00:52:28.199
And that's that's what's so good about Moffat at his best.

1081
00:52:28.260 --> 00:52:28.980
I think.

1082
00:52:29.099 --> 00:52:32.159
And so obvious when you, when you see it, but you would never have

1083
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:32.760
thought it.

1084
00:52:32.820 --> 00:52:33.480
No, self.

1085
00:52:33.539 --> 00:52:33.840
Yeah.

1086
00:52:33.900 --> 00:52:34.559
Yeah.

1087
00:52:34.619 --> 00:52:39.900
That last bit where Matt is talking to young Amelia and says like

1088
00:52:39.900 --> 00:52:44.460
we're all stories in the end and then says, you know, daft old man

1089
00:52:44.460 --> 00:52:45.719
who stole a magic box.

1090
00:52:45.780 --> 00:52:49.199
I think that's the 1st time I knew who that it's actually really

1091
00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:52.139
vocalised, that he stole a box, you know?

1092
00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:54.300
Yeah, like universe law.

1093
00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:58.139
Because we've been highlighting Billy Harton all season, haven't

1094
00:52:58.139 --> 00:52:58.380
we?

1095
00:52:58.440 --> 00:53:00.719
As in going back to origins.

1096
00:53:00.780 --> 00:53:04.679
This is the 1st time in the series, possibly since 5 doctors, that

1097
00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:10.019
we've had 1st doctor explicitly shown on screen and because I'm

1098
00:53:10.019 --> 00:53:11.099
talking about his library card.

1099
00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:11.940
Oh, yeah.

1100
00:53:11.940 --> 00:53:14.039
Just assume everybody's.

1101
00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:16.260
Just goes back and watches that constantly.

1102
00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:18.420
I do.

1103
00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:20.579
I got a heart leap.

1104
00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:22.980
You and I talked about this Todd back in the day when that was 1st

1105
00:53:22.980 --> 00:53:25.139
on 2000 and whatever this is.

1106
00:53:25.199 --> 00:53:29.159
And she's like, oh, he's really made me feel, oh, yeah.

1107
00:53:29.219 --> 00:53:32.340
Okay, so yeah, it's definitely an origency.

1108
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:33.059
Yeah.

1109
00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:33.659
Yeah.

1110
00:53:33.719 --> 00:53:35.340
And just the borrowing.

1111
00:53:35.460 --> 00:53:38.400
I mean, that was something that the doctor used to say, but I

1112
00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:41.940
don't think has said in the new series about the Tartars, and so

1113
00:53:41.940 --> 00:53:43.019
it was always something borrowed.

1114
00:53:43.139 --> 00:53:47.340
Yeah, and he even then says to Amelia, and therefore us, did I

1115
00:53:47.340 --> 00:53:48.539
ever tell you I stole it?

1116
00:53:48.599 --> 00:53:50.400
I was always gonna return it.

1117
00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:52.320
You know?

1118
00:53:52.380 --> 00:53:56.099
So it's Moffatt does all these knowing winks to the audience.

1119
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:59.219
By the time we get to Capaldi, like Capaldi actually delivers a

1120
00:53:59.219 --> 00:54:01.860
fair chunk of dialogue down, the camera in a couple of episodes

1121
00:54:01.860 --> 00:54:05.159
but it's fine by then because we know that that's what this era

1122
00:54:05.159 --> 00:54:05.519
does.

1123
00:54:05.579 --> 00:54:08.579
The doctor will occasionally tell the companion things that he's

1124
00:54:08.579 --> 00:54:09.179
directly telling us.

1125
00:54:09.239 --> 00:54:10.139
Yeah.

1126
00:54:10.199 --> 00:54:13.860
I think the scene ends beautifully as well when he decides to go

1127
00:54:13.860 --> 00:54:16.440
into the crack and we don't see him do it.

1128
00:54:16.500 --> 00:54:18.360
We just see it's a shadow play on the wall.

1129
00:54:18.420 --> 00:54:21.719
You see the light coming from the crack and then you see Matt sort

1130
00:54:21.719 --> 00:54:24.119
of figure heading towards it.

1131
00:54:24.179 --> 00:54:26.880
And it would have looked stupid if you'd seen it, but that

1132
00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:28.559
actually looks really beautiful, I think.

1133
00:54:28.619 --> 00:54:32.519
And then we look at the, once he does that, we look at the window

1134
00:54:32.519 --> 00:54:36.000
and the stars are all back. stars are all back.

1135
00:54:36.059 --> 00:54:36.659
Yeah.

1136
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:42.119
And the world is at rights and we get to see Amy's mum and tiny

1137
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:46.980
little dad for a few scenes and they're never, they're not, Steve's

1138
00:54:46.980 --> 00:54:48.659
not interested in exploring them ever again.

1139
00:54:48.719 --> 00:54:51.420
So this is their moment to shine.

1140
00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:55.980
Yes, it was my little one moment of having a mother in this whole

1141
00:54:55.980 --> 00:54:58.619
season and you know how much I love that.

1142
00:54:59.820 --> 00:55:01.679
Do you think she's good?

1143
00:55:01.739 --> 00:55:06.659
She's a little bit like Amy with her husband, you know, your

1144
00:55:06.659 --> 00:55:09.780
father made the breakfast so you can tip it out the window if it's

1145
00:55:09.780 --> 00:55:10.619
an atrocity.

1146
00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:13.139
I just think it's tremendous.

1147
00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:16.139
Could we have had a whole series next year with them in the

1148
00:55:16.139 --> 00:55:17.880
background as doting grandparents?

1149
00:55:17.940 --> 00:55:18.480
I mean, who knows?

1150
00:55:18.539 --> 00:55:19.860
Yeah, I mean, they would have worked.

1151
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:25.980
Brian Williams works quite well as a father in Series 7.

1152
00:55:26.039 --> 00:55:26.820
Yeah.

1153
00:55:32.880 --> 00:55:35.400
We've got Toby Haynes directing.

1154
00:55:35.400 --> 00:55:37.199
We like.

1155
00:55:37.260 --> 00:55:39.300
What else has he done?

1156
00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:41.760
He done Sherlock and being human in Black Mirror.

1157
00:55:41.820 --> 00:55:44.460
So yeah, it's very, and something's called Jonathan Strange and Dr

1158
00:55:44.460 --> 00:55:45.900
Narell, which I love the book.

1159
00:55:45.960 --> 00:55:48.599
I didn't, haven't seen it as a, as a telling show.

1160
00:55:48.659 --> 00:55:52.800
It's Peter Harness, a Doctor Who's Peter Harness, who writes it.

1161
00:55:52.860 --> 00:55:55.739
What do we think about the direction of this one?

1162
00:55:55.800 --> 00:55:57.599
Oh, I think it's stunning.

1163
00:55:57.659 --> 00:56:01.860
I think it's very tight, and it's very, and you all touched on

1164
00:56:01.860 --> 00:56:02.099
it.

1165
00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:04.320
It's a really difficult piece to direct successfully.

1166
00:56:04.380 --> 00:56:08.280
Yeah, well, it is for people speaking in a museum. you know, for

1167
00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:11.880
people, 4.5 people and a dalek, chatting in a museum.

1168
00:56:11.940 --> 00:56:13.440
It's tough to make interesting.

1169
00:56:13.500 --> 00:56:16.139
Yeah, and you've got the same scenes repeated in different

1170
00:56:16.139 --> 00:56:18.719
sequences, so you need to film them at the same time and make sure

1171
00:56:18.719 --> 00:56:22.199
that all the angles and perspectives all work that editing

1172
00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:22.619
sequence.

1173
00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:26.579
Script editor Lindsay Alford has no entry on Wiki or anything

1174
00:56:26.579 --> 00:56:27.179
else.

1175
00:56:27.239 --> 00:56:31.019
I'm considering that Lindsay probably compressed.

1176
00:56:31.500 --> 00:56:35.219
Quantum singularity. the season.

1177
00:56:37.320 --> 00:56:39.900
I will say regarding the direction.

1178
00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:42.300
I wasn't going to bring this up because it's a bit of a nitpick.

1179
00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:48.780
But at around 13 minutes and 35 seconds, when, around, around that

1180
00:56:48.780 --> 00:56:53.820
when Amy is doing the sort of height comparison with Amelia, there

1181
00:56:53.820 --> 00:56:55.380
is actually a person.

1182
00:56:55.440 --> 00:57:00.300
Ooh, just in the right of shot who realises the camera has pulled

1183
00:57:00.300 --> 00:57:01.500
out and gets out of the way.

1184
00:57:01.559 --> 00:57:06.480
And I did think, is it security guard Rory, but with Amy's eyeline

1185
00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:07.199
she would have seen him.

1186
00:57:07.260 --> 00:57:11.940
It's a member of the crew. who, unfortunately, and they could have

1187
00:57:11.940 --> 00:57:13.079
digitally painted them out.

1188
00:57:13.139 --> 00:57:16.139
Like, it's literally just the cameras pulling back their, like, a

1189
00:57:16.139 --> 00:57:18.719
fingers width into the screen as you're looking at the screen and

1190
00:57:18.719 --> 00:57:19.800
then they go, oh.

1191
00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:25.980
So, do you think it's the person with a clipboard in Earthshock

1192
00:57:25.980 --> 00:57:27.239
doing a set tour?

1193
00:57:27.300 --> 00:57:28.559
Yeah, it's Val McRriman.

1194
00:57:28.679 --> 00:57:28.860
Yeah.

1195
00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:33.000
Oh, I'm on camera again.

1196
00:57:33.059 --> 00:57:37.440
But look, yes, aside from that, Toby Haynes does this very

1197
00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:38.159
deftly.

1198
00:57:38.219 --> 00:57:40.320
He was a Doctor Who fan.

1199
00:57:40.380 --> 00:57:43.739
He had a subscription to Doctor Who magazine.

1200
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:47.579
Yeah, and, you know, he did all the wonderful stuff in Stonehenge

1201
00:57:47.579 --> 00:57:50.519
last week and, of course, Foamhenge, just down the road.

1202
00:57:51.900 --> 00:57:58.320
I like how some of the stuff in the wedding is actually filmed

1203
00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:02.579
like, you know, with River slowly walking past the windows

1204
00:58:02.579 --> 00:58:06.780
although I still don't get how she's there to give the diary, so

1205
00:58:06.780 --> 00:58:08.159
she remembers the doctor as well.

1206
00:58:08.219 --> 00:58:10.320
Is that just a space reason?

1207
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:12.119
collapse. total event collapse.

1208
00:58:12.179 --> 00:58:14.159
And the book is blank.

1209
00:58:14.159 --> 00:58:15.059
It's empty.

1210
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:20.760
And I love, again, it's just a moment of absolute magic where

1211
00:58:20.760 --> 00:58:25.260
she's crying and we had this in Vincent and we had it last week

1212
00:58:25.260 --> 00:58:32.340
where Amy is crying because there's someone who's not here who she

1213
00:58:32.340 --> 00:58:34.019
doesn't even properly remember.

1214
00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:37.980
But at the same time, he makes, he makes a joke out of it, like

1215
00:58:37.980 --> 00:58:39.599
you know, happy Mrs. Rory.

1216
00:58:39.659 --> 00:58:40.500
No, I'm sad.

1217
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:40.920
Great.

1218
00:58:40.980 --> 00:58:45.420
You know, you just like, you go, you know, you're affected and

1219
00:58:45.420 --> 00:58:47.760
then you've got a bit of witticism.

1220
00:58:47.820 --> 00:58:51.719
But maybe it's the whole thing that, you know, Amy remembers the

1221
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:54.480
doctrine when he comes back into existence, then river from the

1222
00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:57.960
future knows what's going on, so she comes back to make it happen

1223
00:58:57.960 --> 00:59:01.019
just perform to make it happen, another loopy thing.

1224
00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:01.739
I don't know.

1225
00:59:01.800 --> 00:59:03.719
It's grasping at straw.

1226
00:59:03.780 --> 00:59:06.000
It happens because it looks fantastic.

1227
00:59:06.599 --> 00:59:11.099
And there's the slow motion, like the tear drops, you know, so

1228
00:59:11.099 --> 00:59:12.719
it's absolutely magic.

1229
00:59:12.780 --> 00:59:16.619
You know, magic uses blood and tears and things that represent

1230
00:59:16.619 --> 00:59:17.280
things.

1231
00:59:17.340 --> 00:59:19.980
You know, it's her tear falls onto something that represents the

1232
00:59:19.980 --> 00:59:23.760
TARDIS that represents the doctor's absence from the story.

1233
00:59:23.820 --> 00:59:27.000
All of those things happen and that's when she gets up and gives

1234
00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:27.719
her speech.

1235
00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:31.440
And her speech is absolutely superb.

1236
00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:34.380
It's only then that we get something old, something new, something

1237
00:59:34.380 --> 00:59:36.420
borrowed, something blue, isn't it?

1238
00:59:36.480 --> 00:59:38.400
And then she yells at him.

1239
00:59:38.460 --> 00:59:39.780
So good.

1240
00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:42.780
Like she gets up to go on about her imaginary friend.

1241
00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:47.820
Aunt Sharon's there rolling her eyes, you know, the mum is not

1242
00:59:47.820 --> 00:59:48.659
this again.

1243
00:59:48.719 --> 00:59:50.579
Yeah, I was plastic.

1244
00:59:50.639 --> 00:59:54.119
You know, you get you get to see the bow tie and the...

1245
00:59:54.119 --> 00:59:57.059
Yes, yeah, little shots of things that remind her of him.

1246
00:59:57.119 --> 01:00:00.900
And I mean, the doctor did exist as the raggedy man as her

1247
01:00:00.900 --> 01:00:03.420
imaginary friend. in this version of reality.

1248
01:00:03.480 --> 01:00:05.460
It's just that he wasn't real.

1249
01:00:05.519 --> 01:00:10.440
What do you think about, like, Amy saying you made definitely kiss

1250
01:00:10.440 --> 01:00:11.219
the bride?

1251
01:00:11.280 --> 01:00:13.500
Like, do you like that line?

1252
01:00:13.800 --> 01:00:15.599
Oh yes, I do.

1253
01:00:15.659 --> 01:00:16.679
Yeah, okay.

1254
01:00:16.739 --> 01:00:17.880
See, I don't.

1255
01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:19.980
Oh, come on, just give it up, girl, you know?

1256
01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:22.139
But no, you're married now.

1257
01:00:22.199 --> 01:00:24.059
And like he makes it quite clear.

1258
01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:28.019
No, that's I'll leave that up to Mr. Pond and now it's Mr. Pond

1259
01:00:28.019 --> 01:00:31.440
and like we're always like so complicit and it's, you know, you're

1260
01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:33.900
talking about, you know, it's all about getting married, but in

1261
01:00:33.900 --> 01:00:35.940
the end, he's taking on her name.

1262
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:37.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1263
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:39.420
Because she's the star.

1264
01:00:39.480 --> 01:00:42.119
It's her name in the credits at the beginning at the moment.

1265
01:00:42.179 --> 01:00:43.920
Arthur Darville's not in them.

1266
01:00:43.980 --> 01:00:46.920
This is the diary of a fangirl, is it?

1267
01:00:46.980 --> 01:00:49.380
If Billy Piper had been playing it.

1268
01:00:49.500 --> 01:00:51.599
It's rather than a call girl.

1269
01:00:51.659 --> 01:00:52.980
But it's so wonderful.

1270
01:00:53.039 --> 01:00:54.000
It's so wonderful.

1271
01:00:54.059 --> 01:00:57.179
That sort of thing is it doesn't work like that because, you know

1272
01:00:57.179 --> 01:01:00.420
the doctor doesn't understand things like pregnancy or football or

1273
01:01:00.420 --> 01:01:01.139
anything like that.

1274
01:01:01.199 --> 01:01:02.699
It doesn't work like that, doctor.

1275
01:01:02.760 --> 01:01:04.139
He just goes, yeah, it does.

1276
01:01:04.199 --> 01:01:05.820
And he goes, yeah, it does.

1277
01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:09.659
You know, and so all of that stuff about having a snog in the

1278
01:01:09.659 --> 01:01:13.380
bushes with Matt or you may definitely kiss the bride.

1279
01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:19.019
Like there's no doubt, though, that it's Rory.

1280
01:01:19.079 --> 01:01:22.800
She's absolutely in love with Rory and she's just being kind of

1281
01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:26.699
slightly sexually aggressive in a funny way.

1282
01:01:26.760 --> 01:01:31.739
And so it post-me too, that sort of comedy sexual aggression, you

1283
01:01:31.739 --> 01:01:35.880
know, it's a little bit less problematic coming from a woman.

1284
01:01:35.940 --> 01:01:41.400
But I do think in terms of Moffatt's, you know, 90s rom-com sitcom

1285
01:01:41.400 --> 01:01:43.619
background, it's fun.

1286
01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:44.940
It's intended to be fun.

1287
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:48.360
I don't think that we're supposed to think that Amy will cheat on

1288
01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:49.679
her husband or anything like that.

1289
01:01:49.739 --> 01:01:50.760
We never imagined that for a second.

1290
01:01:50.880 --> 01:01:52.619
No, no, I mean, I do agree.

1291
01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:53.699
I just, I don't know.

1292
01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:57.780
I just kind of think, oh, I'm kind of with you, Todd, in that, just

1293
01:01:57.780 --> 01:01:59.699
by the time we get here, we've done this joke.

1294
01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:00.719
Yeah.

1295
01:02:00.780 --> 01:02:03.059
We've done this joke several times over the season.

1296
01:02:03.179 --> 01:02:06.659
Except that she does want to have sex with him at the end of

1297
01:02:06.659 --> 01:02:07.559
Legenstone.

1298
01:02:07.619 --> 01:02:08.519
Yes, that's true.

1299
01:02:08.639 --> 01:02:09.480
Yes.

1300
01:02:10.019 --> 01:02:14.579
I don't I don't think you'd necessarily show evolution by doing

1301
01:02:14.579 --> 01:02:17.519
the same joke again and say, oh, but this time we're kidding.

1302
01:02:17.579 --> 01:02:19.199
You know what I mean?

1303
01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:20.039
That's gross.

1304
01:02:21.599 --> 01:02:23.400
Oh dear.

1305
01:02:23.460 --> 01:02:24.719
I mean, it's a minor.

1306
01:02:24.780 --> 01:02:25.860
It's a minor blip.

1307
01:02:25.860 --> 01:02:29.159
And the fact the matter is, Matt's response to it is hilarious.

1308
01:02:29.219 --> 01:02:30.000
Yeah.

1309
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:33.300
And Rose response to the comment later.

1310
01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:35.940
It's my wedding, I can do what I want.

1311
01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:37.679
Our wedding.

1312
01:02:37.739 --> 01:02:42.179
I like how he's brushing his teeth, but he's dressed for the

1313
01:02:42.179 --> 01:02:42.539
wedding.

1314
01:02:42.599 --> 01:02:46.320
Like, he completely gets dressed, puts his tie on, his being, his

1315
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:49.380
little corsage thing, and then decides, oh, I better brush my

1316
01:02:49.380 --> 01:02:50.219
teeth, I think.

1317
01:02:50.219 --> 01:02:52.679
To be honest, when I brush my teeth in the morning, I'm usually

1318
01:02:52.679 --> 01:02:53.460
fully dressed as well.

1319
01:02:53.940 --> 01:02:56.400
Because I hate brushing my teeth, so I always put it off.

1320
01:02:56.460 --> 01:02:58.260
But I would get it down my front.

1321
01:02:58.320 --> 01:02:59.579
Oh, well, that's the thing.

1322
01:02:59.699 --> 01:03:03.239
I sort of, I sort of, I sort of, you can't see me listening, but

1323
01:03:03.239 --> 01:03:04.860
I'm jutting my chin forward.

1324
01:03:04.920 --> 01:03:06.360
I sort of lean forward like that.

1325
01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:09.659
That's why morning suits and dinner jackets have little bibs

1326
01:03:09.659 --> 01:03:10.260
little.

1327
01:03:10.320 --> 01:03:12.179
That's the toothpaste.

1328
01:03:12.239 --> 01:03:14.340
That's why they're white. and shiny.

1329
01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:19.079
In the end, the doctor only came for the damn thing.

1330
01:03:19.619 --> 01:03:21.659
It's so good.

1331
01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:25.559
And his dancing is hilarious. with the kids. boys dancing.

1332
01:03:25.619 --> 01:03:29.519
He just works so well with children like Matt just has that energy

1333
01:03:29.519 --> 01:03:30.300
with them.

1334
01:03:30.360 --> 01:03:34.019
But then you get that, but then you take that to the TARDIS, like

1335
01:03:34.019 --> 01:03:35.940
like with River and his conversation.

1336
01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:36.719
Did you dance?

1337
01:03:36.780 --> 01:03:37.800
You know?

1338
01:03:37.860 --> 01:03:39.059
Yeah, yeah.

1339
01:03:39.119 --> 01:03:40.920
And that, are you married?

1340
01:03:40.980 --> 01:03:41.639
Are you asking?

1341
01:03:41.699 --> 01:03:42.059
Yes.

1342
01:03:42.119 --> 01:03:46.380
Well, the yes, yes, yes. enigmatic thing that we had, you know, at

1343
01:03:46.380 --> 01:03:51.659
the end of flesh and stone, where the doctor asked River, can I

1344
01:03:51.659 --> 01:03:52.380
trust you?

1345
01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:57.420
And her response is, if you like, which I think is wonderful.

1346
01:03:57.480 --> 01:04:01.500
And here she literally just gives nothing at all away, but it is

1347
01:04:01.500 --> 01:04:07.739
absolutely 100% clear that the only possible non-stupid resolution

1348
01:04:07.739 --> 01:04:11.820
to this mystery is yes, she is the doctor's wife.

1349
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:33.659
So, we're now, in the TARDIS, off on new adventures with Amy and

1350
01:04:33.659 --> 01:04:38.699
Rory, they, well, they appear, like, from their wedding, and do we

1351
01:04:38.699 --> 01:04:39.599
have something about the silence?

1352
01:04:39.659 --> 01:04:40.860
I'm quite confused.

1353
01:04:40.920 --> 01:04:44.219
Yeah, so the doctor's like, we still don't know why the Tardos

1354
01:04:44.219 --> 01:04:44.760
exploded.

1355
01:04:44.820 --> 01:04:47.760
It's something to do with the silence, the silence out there, and

1356
01:04:47.760 --> 01:04:48.840
now I need to get the phone.

1357
01:04:48.900 --> 01:04:49.980
Yeah.

1358
01:04:50.039 --> 01:04:54.119
So we do get we do get that in season comedy moment.

1359
01:04:54.179 --> 01:04:58.800
You know, there's a Egyptian goddess loose on the own express in

1360
01:04:58.800 --> 01:05:02.280
space, and I fully expected that's what we were going to get for

1361
01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:03.659
Christmas.

1362
01:05:03.719 --> 01:05:04.380
Christmas.

1363
01:05:04.440 --> 01:05:05.159
Yeah, yeah.

1364
01:05:05.219 --> 01:05:05.639
Yep, yep.

1365
01:05:05.699 --> 01:05:08.219
I think we end up getting something a lot better.

1366
01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:13.019
It is, it's, again, a sort of funny sitcom line to emphasise

1367
01:05:13.019 --> 01:05:13.980
they're off on new adventures.

1368
01:05:14.039 --> 01:05:18.780
But the bit that I like is the moment when they say this is time

1369
01:05:18.780 --> 01:05:22.320
to say goodbye because she's married.

1370
01:05:22.440 --> 01:05:23.639
Her story is finished.

1371
01:05:23.699 --> 01:05:28.139
She is like Vicki or Leila or Susan.

1372
01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:29.940
Once a woman knows, she's dead.

1373
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:34.019
Yeah, or Joe. You have to leave the series once you're married.

1374
01:05:34.079 --> 01:05:36.659
And Stephen subverts that.

1375
01:05:36.719 --> 01:05:41.699
And this is also the 1st time where Rory willingly participates.

1376
01:05:41.760 --> 01:05:43.800
And so they both go out.

1377
01:05:43.860 --> 01:05:45.599
You know, she goes out to say goodbye.

1378
01:05:45.659 --> 01:05:49.019
Yes, it's time to say goodbye, but it's time to say goodbye to

1379
01:05:49.019 --> 01:05:54.480
Ledworth and it is that usual thing of having people say things

1380
01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:58.260
that mean something different from what we expect.

1381
01:05:58.320 --> 01:06:01.860
So we are sort of tricked for a moment into thinking that this is

1382
01:06:01.860 --> 01:06:02.400
goodbye.

1383
01:06:02.460 --> 01:06:04.980
But of course, it's not goodbye to the thing that we thought it

1384
01:06:04.980 --> 01:06:05.219
was.

1385
01:06:05.340 --> 01:06:09.179
And thanks to Russell, we have come to expect that the companion

1386
01:06:09.179 --> 01:06:10.139
leaves in episode 13.

1387
01:06:10.260 --> 01:06:10.739
Yeah.

1388
01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:13.800
Especially if they have something to leave too.

1389
01:06:13.860 --> 01:06:16.679
Like, you know, Martha leaves to look after her family.

1390
01:06:16.739 --> 01:06:18.599
Amy and Rory are married.

1391
01:06:18.659 --> 01:06:21.480
They're going to go off and have some boring children.

1392
01:06:21.539 --> 01:06:25.079
But no, they're still going to fly off into time and space.

1393
01:06:25.139 --> 01:06:26.880
They might not be boring.

1394
01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:32.460
They just might be a puddle of stick on the floor, but more of

1395
01:06:32.460 --> 01:06:33.000
that next year.

1396
01:06:33.059 --> 01:06:33.599
Sorry.

1397
01:06:33.599 --> 01:06:33.719
Sorry.

1398
01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:36.360
Yes, it doesn't go world.

1399
01:06:36.420 --> 01:06:39.480
No, it's a bit of a disaster.

1400
01:06:39.539 --> 01:06:42.659
But I just think that this is an absolute high point.

1401
01:06:42.719 --> 01:06:46.019
We get the hero music coming in at the very end.

1402
01:06:46.079 --> 01:06:49.500
It's really, truly exciting and satisfying.

1403
01:06:49.559 --> 01:06:53.579
And it is that thing you said before, Richard, where every

1404
01:06:53.579 --> 01:06:57.900
previous season finale has been sort of bleak and terrible in some

1405
01:06:57.900 --> 01:07:02.400
kind of way and to have this go out on such a high note with the

1406
01:07:02.400 --> 01:07:07.079
story resolved and something very, very exciting over the

1407
01:07:07.079 --> 01:07:07.679
horizon.

1408
01:07:07.739 --> 01:07:10.679
I think it's one of Doctor Who's absolute high points ever.

1409
01:07:10.739 --> 01:07:13.019
The last chapter of this novel.

1410
01:07:13.079 --> 01:07:13.860
Yeah.

1411
01:07:13.860 --> 01:07:14.219
Yeah.

1412
01:07:14.280 --> 01:07:17.940
Yes. of this particular novel and it's leaving on a positive

1413
01:07:17.940 --> 01:07:20.519
because we're going to come back in the sequel.

1414
01:07:21.420 --> 01:07:24.179
The sequel novel, more adventures of this TARDIS team.

1415
01:07:24.239 --> 01:07:25.260
Of the Tomorrow people.

1416
01:07:25.679 --> 01:07:28.619
But it never has been like that, has it?

1417
01:07:28.739 --> 01:07:31.320
The season has never been. might not be again.

1418
01:07:31.380 --> 01:07:33.780
As you no, I don't think it ever will be again.

1419
01:07:33.840 --> 01:07:36.539
It's unified and it says something.

1420
01:07:36.599 --> 01:07:41.159
What did it get, 6.70000 viewers, audience appreciation of, I

1421
01:07:41.159 --> 01:07:43.500
think, the highest, 89 or something?

1422
01:07:43.559 --> 01:07:47.159
Okay, I'm sounding like dot, but not as informed.

1423
01:07:47.219 --> 01:07:51.059
It also, because I think I was at the World Con this year.

1424
01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:52.500
I remember getting, Yeah, I was.

1425
01:07:52.559 --> 01:07:56.460
This is to the 2011 Hugo Awards presentation, which they have at

1426
01:07:56.460 --> 01:07:57.360
World Conage year.

1427
01:07:57.420 --> 01:07:58.019
This one won.

1428
01:07:58.139 --> 01:08:02.639
This script won for, I think it's short performance drama, but it

1429
01:08:02.639 --> 01:08:04.800
won the, it, Hugo's a big deals.

1430
01:08:04.860 --> 01:08:09.960
Yeah, it won the Hugo for best short dramatic presentation.

1431
01:08:10.079 --> 01:08:12.360
It's it's really something.

1432
01:08:12.539 --> 01:08:15.780
I just think it's very cleverly written.

1433
01:08:15.840 --> 01:08:21.359
It brings everything from this season to a, well, most things to a

1434
01:08:21.359 --> 01:08:24.840
conclusion that, you know, there's still a few things that need to

1435
01:08:24.840 --> 01:08:29.159
be answered next season, but the majority of Amy's journey to this

1436
01:08:29.159 --> 01:08:32.939
point, there have been answers for, and it's deeply satisfying.

1437
01:08:33.000 --> 01:08:38.039
I don't know if for Nick, whether we've actually explained.

1438
01:08:42.359 --> 01:08:46.020
Well enough so that, you know, he...

1439
01:08:46.199 --> 01:08:52.560
Maybe, maybe Nick, you've and listeners, you get it a bit more.

1440
01:08:52.619 --> 01:08:55.319
I get it a bit more, but then I don't.

1441
01:08:55.380 --> 01:08:57.420
So I think that's what it's supposed to be.

1442
01:08:57.479 --> 01:09:01.380
Maybe the explanation was the confusion we all had along the way.

1443
01:09:14.279 --> 01:09:18.899
Okay, so it is part two of a two part story, which means pics of

1444
01:09:18.899 --> 01:09:19.140
the week.

1445
01:09:19.260 --> 01:09:19.920
Todd.

1446
01:09:19.979 --> 01:09:23.819
Well, I think that I should go with a deeply satisfying season

1447
01:09:23.819 --> 01:09:27.779
finale that alludes to a marriage and it's just going to conclude

1448
01:09:27.779 --> 01:09:30.899
a season just so wonderfully, like the whole plot lines for the

1449
01:09:30.899 --> 01:09:31.260
whole season.

1450
01:09:31.319 --> 01:09:32.939
So I'm going with the invasion of time.

1451
01:09:33.239 --> 01:09:34.979
I thought so.

1452
01:09:35.640 --> 01:09:41.939
From my favourite season of the 1970.

1453
01:09:42.300 --> 01:09:43.560
Brace yourself for the box set.

1454
01:09:45.779 --> 01:09:49.319
So please go and watch the invasion of time and then come and

1455
01:09:49.319 --> 01:09:50.520
watch this and tell me which is better.

1456
01:09:50.579 --> 01:09:51.600
Yeah, watch it twice.

1457
01:09:51.659 --> 01:09:53.220
I actually love the invite.

1458
01:09:53.279 --> 01:09:54.840
I do too.

1459
01:09:54.899 --> 01:09:57.420
I could have nominated the Armageddon factor, but, you know

1460
01:09:57.420 --> 01:09:59.279
besides Mary Tam, it's a slog.

1461
01:09:59.340 --> 01:10:00.840
We like our listeners.

1462
01:10:01.439 --> 01:10:02.819
Right.

1463
01:10:02.880 --> 01:10:07.260
My pick of the week is also marriage related, but it's marriage.

1464
01:10:07.319 --> 01:10:08.159
It's great.

1465
01:10:09.060 --> 01:10:11.100
I've just done it for a year.

1466
01:10:11.159 --> 01:10:11.760
I might keep going.

1467
01:10:11.939 --> 01:10:16.920
No, the what I'm picking, it's something we started watching

1468
01:10:16.920 --> 01:10:17.579
recently.

1469
01:10:17.640 --> 01:10:20.399
Rod saw it back when it was originally on, and this is my 1st time

1470
01:10:20.399 --> 01:10:22.859
watching it, and it shows what might have happened to Amy and

1471
01:10:22.859 --> 01:10:23.220
Rory.

1472
01:10:23.279 --> 01:10:26.340
Had they decided to stay in Leadworth and have 2 boring children?

1473
01:10:26.399 --> 01:10:29.279
And I think Richard is going to like this recommendation.

1474
01:10:29.340 --> 01:10:34.260
It's butterflies featuring Wendy Craig and Jeffrey Palmer.

1475
01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:35.699
Carla Lane.

1476
01:10:35.760 --> 01:10:36.600
Yeah.

1477
01:10:36.659 --> 01:10:39.420
Now, I am only halfway through season one.

1478
01:10:39.479 --> 01:10:45.180
And I have no idea what happens with the relationships that Rhea

1479
01:10:45.180 --> 01:10:51.420
the lead, is forming both in her family and outside.

1480
01:10:51.479 --> 01:10:52.439
Hello, Leonard.

1481
01:10:52.500 --> 01:10:54.840
I haven't seen this since it was on.

1482
01:10:54.899 --> 01:10:56.579
No, me either, but I did watch it.

1483
01:10:56.640 --> 01:10:57.420
Yeah.

1484
01:10:57.479 --> 01:11:02.220
So I'm only halfway through season one and I will say, especially

1485
01:11:02.220 --> 01:11:06.359
for a modern audience expecting a sitcom, there is some, there is

1486
01:11:06.359 --> 01:11:10.739
some confronting language in there and concepts, but it is done

1487
01:11:10.739 --> 01:11:12.300
with a certain lightness of touch.

1488
01:11:12.359 --> 01:11:17.159
It also has very young Nicholas Lyndhurst as one of her sons, one

1489
01:11:17.159 --> 01:11:20.880
of her painfully thin sons, because it's 1978.

1490
01:11:21.060 --> 01:11:23.939
Oh, wait, just on the Prince and the Pauper.

1491
01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:25.560
If you ever saw that one.

1492
01:11:25.619 --> 01:11:27.479
He's a good actor right from the word go.

1493
01:11:27.539 --> 01:11:30.359
I think it's on Britbox if you want to see it.

1494
01:11:30.420 --> 01:11:31.560
Yes.

1495
01:11:31.619 --> 01:11:33.060
So butterflies.

1496
01:11:33.720 --> 01:11:39.659
For me, if you like exploding things and time out of sequence and

1497
01:11:39.659 --> 01:11:43.560
marriages that you hope will go right, but you expect they won't

1498
01:11:43.560 --> 01:11:45.539
I'm really enjoying Disney's the right stuff.

1499
01:11:45.600 --> 01:11:47.579
I know shock horror.

1500
01:11:47.640 --> 01:11:50.579
It's Mad Men in space and it even has some of the same actors, but

1501
01:11:50.579 --> 01:11:53.279
it's beautifully done, beautifully written, and it doesn't pull

1502
01:11:53.279 --> 01:11:53.880
punches.

1503
01:11:53.939 --> 01:11:59.279
So it's the Thunderbirds crew, as in Scott, John, Alan, Gordon, and

1504
01:11:59.279 --> 01:12:02.399
Virgil, but they're actually the mercury astronauts.

1505
01:12:03.300 --> 01:12:08.340
And considering these are based on real persons and they're only

1506
01:12:08.340 --> 01:12:09.359
recently deceased.

1507
01:12:09.420 --> 01:12:14.340
It goes over the complexity, as I said, it's, it's, it's, um

1508
01:12:14.340 --> 01:12:15.899
madmen with rockets.

1509
01:12:15.960 --> 01:12:20.520
So it doesn't pull punches with people with real people's history

1510
01:12:20.520 --> 01:12:24.600
but it's very interesting and it doesn't paint Werner von Braun in

1511
01:12:24.600 --> 01:12:29.460
anything but a truthful and historically accurate light.

1512
01:12:29.520 --> 01:12:31.920
It gets quite dark. really, really enjoying that.

1513
01:12:31.979 --> 01:12:37.739
And I also grabbed Doctor Who season 8 Blu-ray off Nathan's shelf

1514
01:12:37.739 --> 01:12:39.659
because I just think everyone should have one.

1515
01:12:41.699 --> 01:12:44.039
Well, I'm going to pick something.

1516
01:12:44.100 --> 01:12:47.159
I guess we've had sort of rom-com things happening.

1517
01:12:47.340 --> 01:12:52.680
I'm going to pick a show called Love Victor, which I don't think

1518
01:12:52.680 --> 01:12:53.399
I've mentioned before.

1519
01:12:53.699 --> 01:12:59.460
So you might remember Love Simon was a film in which a sort of

1520
01:12:59.460 --> 01:13:03.359
well-off white kid who was gay, came out to his parents and

1521
01:13:03.359 --> 01:13:06.479
nothing really bad happened and then he got a boyfriend and the

1522
01:13:06.479 --> 01:13:07.020
whole thing ended.

1523
01:13:07.199 --> 01:13:09.300
I really liked it.

1524
01:13:09.359 --> 01:13:11.220
It was a good rom-com.

1525
01:13:11.279 --> 01:13:15.239
It was sort of fun and sweet and it was unusual to have just a gay

1526
01:13:15.239 --> 01:13:18.539
rom-com that isn't about being gay necessarily.

1527
01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:23.399
But people observed at the time that it was very wise and very

1528
01:13:23.399 --> 01:13:25.079
kind of middle class and stuff.

1529
01:13:25.140 --> 01:13:28.979
And so there is a sequel TV series.

1530
01:13:29.039 --> 01:13:31.680
It was originally going to be Disney, but they had a little bit of

1531
01:13:31.680 --> 01:13:37.319
stage fright about it, and then it was released by Hulu, and it is

1532
01:13:37.319 --> 01:13:45.180
about a kid who arrives in Atlanta after moving from Texas.

1533
01:13:45.239 --> 01:13:49.800
His family is Hispanic, they're working class or sort of kind of

1534
01:13:49.800 --> 01:13:55.020
working class, and he has a much sort of rougher time, and it's

1535
01:13:55.020 --> 01:13:56.340
slower, it's more complicated.

1536
01:13:56.399 --> 01:13:58.140
It's got a lovely cast of characters.

1537
01:13:58.199 --> 01:14:02.399
And I'm a bit of a sucker for TV shows set in schools just because

1538
01:14:02.399 --> 01:14:07.439
you know, I'm a schoolteacher and it's, again, nice to have a

1539
01:14:07.439 --> 01:14:10.739
romantic comedy that centres on sort of gay concerns.

1540
01:14:10.800 --> 01:14:11.760
It's fun.

1541
01:14:11.819 --> 01:14:14.699
I really, really enjoyed it. it's quite moving in places as well.

1542
01:14:37.020 --> 01:14:40.140
Well, new listener, that's all we have time for this week.

1543
01:14:40.199 --> 01:14:44.039
We'll be back next week to revel in what might be Doctor Who's

1544
01:14:44.039 --> 01:14:48.479
most coherent season ever in our Series 5 retrospective.

1545
01:14:48.479 --> 01:14:52.560
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1546
01:14:52.560 --> 01:14:55.199
and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook

1547
01:14:55.199 --> 01:14:58.199
at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website

1548
01:14:58.199 --> 01:15:01.319
FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other

1549
01:15:01.319 --> 01:15:04.199
podcasts, Bondfinger and Jody into Terror.

1550
01:15:04.439 --> 01:15:09.359
Until next time, if something can be remembered, it can come

1551
01:15:09.359 --> 01:15:09.779
back.

1552
01:15:09.840 --> 01:15:15.899
So close your eyes, wish really hard, and one day, maybe, we can

1553
01:15:15.899 --> 01:15:20.760
all sit down together and watch Zenia Merton dancing in Marco Polo

1554
01:15:20.760 --> 01:15:21.119
part three.

1555
01:15:21.720 --> 01:15:24.840
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1556
01:15:24.899 --> 01:15:27.539
I'm manifesting my house keys.

1557
01:15:27.659 --> 01:15:27.960
Good night.

1558
01:15:28.020 --> 01:15:30.720
See you soon Good, baby.

1559
01:15:33.840 --> 01:15:36.720
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd Building, Nathan

1560
01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:38.699
Bottomley, Brendan Jones and Richard Stone.

1561
01:15:38.760 --> 01:15:40.859
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1562
01:15:40.920 --> 01:15:44.699
This episode, the Todd experience, was recorded on the 16th of May

1563
01:15:44.699 --> 01:15:47.579
2021, and released on the 6th of June.

1564
01:15:48.840 --> 01:15:53.340
Nothing is more ridiculous or miraculous than the continued love

1565
01:15:53.340 --> 01:15:55.140
and support. we received from our listeners.

1566
01:15:55.199 --> 01:15:58.800
So this week I'd like to thank Liam McNicholas, who has been

1567
01:15:58.800 --> 01:16:02.100
releasing incredible artwork every week to accompany our series 5

1568
01:16:02.100 --> 01:16:02.520
episodes.

1569
01:16:02.640 --> 01:16:05.760
Check him out on Twitter at Liam McNicholas.

1570
01:16:05.819 --> 01:16:07.680
There'll be a link in this week's show notes.

1571
01:16:14.760 --> 01:16:19.319
I don't know why it only says I have 2 hours and 4 minutes left on

1572
01:16:19.319 --> 01:16:21.119
the, for recording.

1573
01:16:21.180 --> 01:16:22.199
And you've just cleared the card.

1574
01:16:22.199 --> 01:16:23.760
And I've just cleared the entire card.

1575
01:16:23.819 --> 01:16:26.640
We're not gonna go for 2 hours and 4 minutes, are we?

1576
01:16:26.699 --> 01:16:28.500
No, okay, good.

1577
01:16:28.560 --> 01:16:29.159
All right.

1578
01:16:29.220 --> 01:16:31.140
I've got Vincent and the doctor to put out.

1579
01:16:32.220 --> 01:16:34.560
Which means listening to it again.

1580
01:16:35.520 --> 01:16:41.579
Our title this week, by the way, is balancing the darkness, which

1581
01:16:41.579 --> 01:16:42.720
I think is pretty good.

1582
01:16:42.779 --> 01:16:43.199
Yes.

1583
01:16:43.199 --> 01:16:43.739
Yes.

1584
01:16:43.800 --> 01:16:49.619
Given the rule that it has to be the guest on their 1st

1585
01:16:49.619 --> 01:16:50.039
appearance.

1586
01:16:51.300 --> 01:16:52.859
Okay.

1587
01:16:52.920 --> 01:16:56.579
So everyone say something funny and compete for the title of this

1588
01:16:56.579 --> 01:16:57.300
week's one.

1589
01:16:57.960 --> 01:17:03.060
We've already decided the title for the one that we recorded last

1590
01:17:03.060 --> 01:17:07.500
week is Space Reasons because I'm desperate to get space reasons

1591
01:17:07.500 --> 01:17:07.979
to happen.

1592
01:17:09.840 --> 01:17:10.979
Yes, we must do that this way.

1593
01:17:11.039 --> 01:17:12.479
It was Peter.

1594
01:17:12.779 --> 01:17:14.340
Peter.

1595
01:17:14.399 --> 01:17:17.939
And I just think space reasons are so much better than like, we're

1596
01:17:17.939 --> 01:17:20.939
talking about stupid science fiction reasons, but space reasons is

1597
01:17:20.939 --> 01:17:23.460
much funnier because it's like space corridors.

1598
01:17:23.760 --> 01:17:27.180
Space Reasons is something you can imagine being set in lower

1599
01:17:27.180 --> 01:17:27.600
decks.

1600
01:17:27.659 --> 01:17:30.119
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1601
01:17:30.420 --> 01:17:33.180
Dr. Tana, what's caused with virus?

1602
01:17:33.239 --> 01:17:33.899
space reasons.

1603
01:17:33.960 --> 01:17:37.739
Well, I mean, I can actually literally hear it happening in Blake

1604
01:17:37.739 --> 01:17:43.979
Severn series A. my degree, my degree in space critical theory.

1605
01:17:46.680 --> 01:17:48.239
All right.

1606
01:17:48.960 --> 01:17:51.300
Yeah, it works for me too.

1607
01:17:52.199 --> 01:17:54.960
All right, should we get started?

1608
01:17:55.020 --> 01:17:57.899
So I'm going to throw it to Todd at the beginning.

1609
01:17:57.960 --> 01:18:01.739
I mean, Todd's going to just start talking at the beginning rather

1610
01:18:01.739 --> 01:18:02.760
than me throwing to him.

1611
01:18:05.819 --> 01:18:07.859
I watched this last night.

1612
01:18:07.920 --> 01:18:08.939
Yes.

1613
01:18:09.000 --> 01:18:11.819
And a week ago and before that.

1614
01:18:11.880 --> 01:18:12.899
Okay.

1615
01:18:14.279 --> 01:18:19.020
So Nathan Brendan told Richard the traditional order.

1616
01:18:19.140 --> 01:18:19.859
Yeah.

1617
01:18:19.920 --> 01:18:20.880
There we go.

1618
01:18:20.939 --> 01:18:21.479
Okay.

1619
01:18:22.260 --> 01:18:26.279
Hello, D-listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety.