WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:29:03

1
00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:40.560
Hello, Day Lister, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the

2
00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:44.100
only Doctor Who podcast that's just found out that for the last 7

3
00:00:44.100 --> 00:00:48.299
years, we've been using the same jokebook as Rory's Best Man.

4
00:00:48.420 --> 00:00:50.219
And we're doing it now.

5
00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:51.719
I'm Nathan.

6
00:00:51.780 --> 00:00:52.679
I'm James.

7
00:00:52.740 --> 00:00:53.759
I'm Todd.

8
00:00:53.820 --> 00:00:54.359
I'm Peter.

9
00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:56.939
Well, for the last 13 weeks.

10
00:00:57.000 --> 00:00:59.460
We've seen what happens when you give creative control of the

11
00:00:59.460 --> 00:01:02.939
biggest thing on TV to the person who brought us Joking Apart

12
00:01:02.939 --> 00:01:03.659
series 2.

13
00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:07.319
So this week we're going to take one more look at how all that

14
00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:11.099
turned out by travelling backwards in our own timeline through

15
00:01:11.099 --> 00:01:16.200
those 13 weeks, creating the odd continuity era along the way in

16
00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:18.540
our series 5 retrospective.

17
00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:54.659
We always start with the hard hitting questions here in our

18
00:01:54.659 --> 00:01:55.439
retrospective.

19
00:01:55.500 --> 00:01:57.480
So, Peter, Snog marry avoid.

20
00:01:57.540 --> 00:02:00.060
Dorian, Churchill, or Cully?

21
00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:01.859
Cully from the 11th hour.

22
00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:02.400
Yes.

23
00:02:02.459 --> 00:02:05.159
Oh, it would have to be Cully from the 11th hour for all 3 because

24
00:02:05.159 --> 00:02:07.140
I mean, I'm a secret dominators fan.

25
00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:10.620
Nobody knows this, but I think the dominant is actually pretty

26
00:02:10.620 --> 00:02:10.860
good.

27
00:02:10.919 --> 00:02:13.979
And so any chance, you know, Cully's in a dress there.

28
00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:15.240
I could take him straight up the aisle.

29
00:02:15.300 --> 00:02:15.960
It would be brilliant.

30
00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:18.000
Hang on, that was really rude.

31
00:02:18.060 --> 00:02:19.740
I made it.

32
00:02:20.460 --> 00:02:22.500
That staying in.

33
00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:24.840
No, that's not staying here.

34
00:02:25.379 --> 00:02:29.099
Yes, you could cheerfully marry Cully from the 11th hour.

35
00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:30.599
As for the other two, who were they?

36
00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:33.599
Dorian or Churchill?

37
00:02:33.659 --> 00:02:37.620
Dorian, you'd, well, no, I'd avoid Dorian, actually.

38
00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:40.500
And Churchill, well, you'd have to give Churchless Nog because he

39
00:02:40.500 --> 00:02:42.780
basically saved civilisation from fascism.

40
00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:43.319
So there we go.

41
00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:44.939
Right.

42
00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:45.960
Thank you very much for that.

43
00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:49.500
We'll now move on to my next question, which is one of our

44
00:02:49.500 --> 00:02:52.860
listener questions that I get from our tweets, and this is part of

45
00:02:52.860 --> 00:02:54.599
the Pandora Opens box.

46
00:02:54.659 --> 00:02:56.639
Luke Hobbs Arsis.

47
00:02:56.699 --> 00:02:59.520
This series just turned 10 years old, and we've had a lot of

48
00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:01.139
Doctor Who in the time since.

49
00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:04.979
Does series 5 still feel fresh, does it feel outdated?

50
00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:09.000
And is this a false choice that can only be resolved by an

51
00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:10.560
alchemic marriage of opposites?

52
00:03:11.340 --> 00:03:13.500
I think it's truly fresh.

53
00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:14.639
I think it's amazing.

54
00:03:14.699 --> 00:03:19.020
And maybe it's because we're coming at it after doing the RTD era

55
00:03:19.020 --> 00:03:24.240
so it's a little bit like it is in context, but it's an exciting

56
00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:27.180
new take on Doctor Who, I think.

57
00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:31.500
And, you know, some of us are sort of coming off the Moffatt era

58
00:03:31.500 --> 00:03:35.699
where perhaps it does get a bit tired by the end, but this new

59
00:03:35.699 --> 00:03:38.219
thing that he's doing is so great in context, I think.

60
00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:43.919
And I think I was very familiar with series one through four, the

61
00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:45.180
Russell T. Davies era.

62
00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:46.979
And so I kind of knew what that felt like.

63
00:03:47.099 --> 00:03:49.199
And series 4 is very good.

64
00:03:49.259 --> 00:03:51.719
Then to get into the specials, which perhaps outstayed their

65
00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:52.919
welcome just a little bit.

66
00:03:52.979 --> 00:03:57.120
But then he hit series 5 and it does feel so fresh and new and

67
00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:01.439
revisiting now, I was surprised by how Moffatt was able to step in

68
00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:04.259
and make a series that felt so much the same and so much

69
00:04:04.259 --> 00:04:04.620
different.

70
00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:06.960
Oh look, I totally agree.

71
00:04:07.020 --> 00:04:08.939
Coming back to it.

72
00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:13.800
Like early Moffat, Doctor Who was never something I was a huge fan

73
00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:16.560
of just because I loved Russell so much.

74
00:04:16.620 --> 00:04:17.759
I kind of took against it.

75
00:04:17.819 --> 00:04:21.060
I still enjoyed watching, but I was like, oh, it's not as good as

76
00:04:21.060 --> 00:04:21.660
it used to be.

77
00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:23.519
What I made was a kid.

78
00:04:23.819 --> 00:04:27.300
But coming back to watch it for FTE.

79
00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:28.019
Wow.

80
00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:30.180
It's phenomenal.

81
00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:33.060
It's so, there's so much energy.

82
00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:37.560
There's so many ideas fizzing around like in this concoction.

83
00:04:37.620 --> 00:04:40.620
It's just, it really holds out well.

84
00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:45.720
I think it seems as fresh now as it did the day it was broadcast.

85
00:04:45.779 --> 00:04:48.600
And hasn't conspicuously dated, has it?

86
00:04:48.660 --> 00:04:50.160
You watch an episode from this series.

87
00:04:50.220 --> 00:04:52.199
It doesn't feel like it's back in time.

88
00:04:52.980 --> 00:04:54.779
Yeah, I agree.

89
00:04:54.839 --> 00:04:57.779
I do think it is as fresh as it was.

90
00:04:57.899 --> 00:05:03.720
And I also think that as similar as it is in terms of structure

91
00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:06.779
and of course, the last time that we have the episodic structure

92
00:05:06.779 --> 00:05:08.639
in knew who.

93
00:05:08.699 --> 00:05:10.740
Like this is it after this, it's all different.

94
00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:14.459
We don't have necessarily an early two-parter, late two-parter, and

95
00:05:14.459 --> 00:05:18.779
two-part finale ever again, like in a series.

96
00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:22.199
I think it's absolutely amazing that you've got that, but Stephen

97
00:05:22.199 --> 00:05:26.160
just makes it seem different and it's such a success with it, I

98
00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:26.519
think.

99
00:05:26.579 --> 00:05:28.560
I've really enjoyed the whole run.

100
00:05:28.620 --> 00:05:34.199
You know, I'm very close to saying that series 5 is my favourite

101
00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:37.980
series of new who.

102
00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:40.920
I think RTD is still my favourite era.

103
00:05:40.980 --> 00:05:46.379
And series 5 has to vie with that incredible run of sort of 7 or 8

104
00:05:46.379 --> 00:05:52.019
episodes at the end of series 4, which is perhaps the best run

105
00:05:52.019 --> 00:05:53.639
that the show has ever done.

106
00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:58.500
And, uh, you know, the corresponding bit of series 5 has that

107
00:05:58.500 --> 00:06:01.740
dreadful gibnal 2 part of SmackBang in the middle of it.

108
00:06:01.860 --> 00:06:06.300
But despite that, there's something so interesting about what it's

109
00:06:06.300 --> 00:06:07.199
doing.

110
00:06:07.259 --> 00:06:10.439
And over the last few weeks, Todd, you've talked about this as

111
00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:13.259
being like a novel, you know, it has a coherence.

112
00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:16.800
It tells a single story in a way that the show has never done

113
00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:21.779
before while not sacrificing the individual episodes.

114
00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:24.060
I think it's amazing.

115
00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:25.980
Yeah, I like what you're saying there, Nathan.

116
00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:28.620
Like in series four, you do have that incredible run.

117
00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:32.399
You have all those highs and you really are swept away with it all

118
00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:33.540
but with all the continuity.

119
00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:37.500
Here, it is like a novel that unfolds chapter by chapter.

120
00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:39.480
And so if one chapter is a little bit disappointing.

121
00:06:39.540 --> 00:06:42.120
You're still wanting to go forward.

122
00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:46.319
And I necessarily don't think that the highs in this season are as

123
00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:51.540
dramatically high as maybe season four, but there's a consistency

124
00:06:51.540 --> 00:06:55.199
and there's a through line and there's just something that I

125
00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:59.160
really am intrigued by every single time I watch it. and it brings

126
00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:00.540
something new every time I watch it.

127
00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:04.199
It's one of those rare seasons, I think, that is greater than the

128
00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:04.920
sum of its parts.

129
00:07:05.100 --> 00:07:06.480
Exactly.

130
00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:09.480
And so even though there are a couple of disappointing episodes in

131
00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:12.899
there, what the season's aiming for and what you come away from it

132
00:07:12.899 --> 00:07:15.300
with is really pretty good.

133
00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:19.800
Another Pandora opens question.

134
00:07:19.860 --> 00:07:23.279
Bob Gilby says, this is the series that made Doctor Who big again

135
00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:24.000
in the USA.

136
00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:27.300
What do you think is the reason for that?

137
00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:30.180
I take issue with the word again.

138
00:07:31.079 --> 00:07:35.339
I think it's that intro, you know, that Amy does the voiceover of

139
00:07:35.339 --> 00:07:36.420
my imaginary friend.

140
00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:40.319
That's what made it US because it needs to be explained every week

141
00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:43.199
to the casual viewer, so they keep on coming back going, oh, I

142
00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:43.860
haven't seen this before.

143
00:07:44.459 --> 00:07:47.819
I think it was just a good sort of jumping on point.

144
00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:51.660
You know, Moffatt does refer to things that have happened before

145
00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:53.160
but not a lot.

146
00:07:53.279 --> 00:08:00.060
And certainly the 1st episode has a completely new cast.

147
00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:02.939
And so it is an excellent jumping on point.

148
00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:06.779
And I think I've recommended that people start with the 11th hour

149
00:08:06.779 --> 00:08:08.579
if they want to watch New Who.

150
00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:13.439
You know, however much I love the RTD era, it is sort of a good

151
00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:15.779
reasonably modern starting point.

152
00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:17.279
It works well.

153
00:08:17.339 --> 00:08:18.720
So I think it was that.

154
00:08:18.779 --> 00:08:21.540
And there was just a lot of publicity and stuff, wasn't there?

155
00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:23.459
I think so.

156
00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:27.660
I also think that you've said a number of times this series about

157
00:08:27.660 --> 00:08:31.019
3 young likeable leads.

158
00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:35.460
Yeah, yeah. for the 1st time since maybe the savages.

159
00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:41.100
Toto?

160
00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:43.259
Hartnell?

161
00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:45.299
And what else?

162
00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:46.259
That other one.

163
00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:50.519
And by the way, Todd, your fetching jumper puts me in mind of

164
00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:51.840
Stephen in the celestial toy maker.

165
00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:52.679
Yeah, yeah.

166
00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:56.879
Thank you for that You always won't get to see my fetching

167
00:08:56.879 --> 00:08:57.419
jumper.

168
00:08:57.480 --> 00:08:58.679
I'll just take a picture.

169
00:09:00.299 --> 00:09:03.600
Can we have some love for the 11th hour?

170
00:09:03.659 --> 00:09:08.039
Because, I mean, as an opener to a season, it's spectacular and it

171
00:09:08.039 --> 00:09:13.080
ticks every box, but the feat that that episode achieved by

172
00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:17.460
basically revamping the entire series and kicking off with nothing

173
00:09:17.460 --> 00:09:18.480
left from behind it.

174
00:09:18.539 --> 00:09:22.620
It's a more audacious feet than Rose, I think, in that respect.

175
00:09:22.740 --> 00:09:25.740
The only thing that's really left is Ed Thomas, behind the

176
00:09:25.740 --> 00:09:26.159
scenes.

177
00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:28.559
That's right, and he's gone by the end of the season.

178
00:09:28.620 --> 00:09:32.100
I mean, the other thing too, that it does, which hasn't been

179
00:09:32.100 --> 00:09:35.580
attempted before in the new series, is it doesn't hold off

180
00:09:35.580 --> 00:09:36.840
introducing the doctor.

181
00:09:36.899 --> 00:09:40.919
So we have to wait to meet the doctor in both rows and the

182
00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:43.799
Christmas invasion, particularly in the Christmas invasion.

183
00:09:43.860 --> 00:09:44.639
Deep breath as well.

184
00:09:44.700 --> 00:09:49.620
Yeah, yeah, but every scene has Matt in it just about.

185
00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:52.559
It's actually quite a shock when we cut to the hospital for that

186
00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:56.700
scene with Rory and Dr. Ramsden because it's the 1st time that

187
00:09:56.700 --> 00:10:02.940
Matt hasn't been the centre of every scene and it's amazing.

188
00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:05.340
He just does so well in it.

189
00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:08.159
And starters, you mean to go on, I would have Matt at the centre

190
00:10:08.159 --> 00:10:10.259
of every scene going forward all season.

191
00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:11.460
I'd be very happy with that.

192
00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:13.320
No, I totally agree.

193
00:10:13.379 --> 00:10:15.960
Like that episode is phenomenal.

194
00:10:16.019 --> 00:10:17.220
And if that had not worked.

195
00:10:17.820 --> 00:10:21.419
The series could have easily, you know, by the end of it, it could

196
00:10:21.419 --> 00:10:22.440
have been all over, really.

197
00:10:22.500 --> 00:10:25.259
And so much of it is down to Matt's performance.

198
00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:28.620
I mean, that opening scene with Caitlin Blackwood is so

199
00:10:28.620 --> 00:10:29.340
wonderful.

200
00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:31.139
He's so tremendous in it.

201
00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:32.879
And I know he's had a go.

202
00:10:32.940 --> 00:10:35.700
Like he's been doing the show for a little while by the time he

203
00:10:35.700 --> 00:10:37.200
does that episode.

204
00:10:37.259 --> 00:10:40.440
But we've already said that he nails it from his 1st scene

205
00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:41.100
anyway.

206
00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:45.179
Simon Hart asks us why is Matt Smith so damn good?

207
00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:54.360
He is an actor, I think, who is visibly thinking and trying to do

208
00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:58.919
something interesting with what he's got and what he's got is

209
00:10:58.919 --> 00:11:00.539
generally very good.

210
00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:03.179
But he's thoughtful and finds new ways of doing things.

211
00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:07.440
There's that weird physicality that he has, you know, the sort of

212
00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:08.279
awkwardness.

213
00:11:08.340 --> 00:11:10.679
And on every single take, by all accounts.

214
00:11:10.740 --> 00:11:11.940
Yeah, something different.

215
00:11:12.059 --> 00:11:12.779
Yeah.

216
00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:18.000
Which made it really difficult for the editors to piece together

217
00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:24.179
series 5 because every take he'd had a different take on the way

218
00:11:24.179 --> 00:11:24.840
to play the scene.

219
00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:25.860
Wow.

220
00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:28.620
I mean, that's just, you know, an abundance of joy, isn't it?

221
00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:32.879
I think it was also because he hadn't really locked in the acting

222
00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:34.080
lane that he was in.

223
00:11:34.139 --> 00:11:35.700
And so he'd done previous things.

224
00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:37.379
He appeared on stage and he'd been very good.

225
00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:41.039
He'd been like the sidekick in the Billy Piper series, Ruby and

226
00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:43.860
the Smoke, he'd done party animals, and each of those was a

227
00:11:43.860 --> 00:11:45.960
slightly different performance and a slightly different

228
00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:46.799
expectation.

229
00:11:46.860 --> 00:11:50.700
I think it needed a role like the doctor, where you can be many

230
00:11:50.700 --> 00:11:54.779
things and bring your own attributes to it, to really kind of

231
00:11:54.779 --> 00:11:56.700
define what he was as an actor.

232
00:11:56.759 --> 00:11:58.740
And you just kind of, it was a natural fit.

233
00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:03.000
And I'm not sure there's been Tom Baker, obviously, but apart from

234
00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:05.820
him and Tom, I'm not sure there has been such a natural fit for

235
00:12:05.820 --> 00:12:06.179
the role.

236
00:12:06.539 --> 00:12:08.879
Yeah, tenants of performance.

237
00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:12.000
Like tenant is much more kind of calm and saturnine is a real

238
00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:13.620
person than his doctor is.

239
00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:17.340
So it's definitely an acting performance.

240
00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:21.299
And, you know, with Sylvester, I think maybe he's a lot like his

241
00:12:21.299 --> 00:12:25.259
doctor and he's sort of quite interesting to watch.

242
00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:30.179
Um, but he sometimes fails at some of the acting hurdles that are

243
00:12:30.179 --> 00:12:31.320
sort of presented to him.

244
00:12:31.379 --> 00:12:35.279
But I think he also is someone who is that sort of doctor.

245
00:12:35.340 --> 00:12:39.240
Yeah, and I don't necessarily mean bringing a lot of yourself to

246
00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:42.600
the role to craft the role around you, but just finding a role

247
00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:44.759
that suits the kind of actor that you are.

248
00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:45.419
Yeah.

249
00:12:45.419 --> 00:12:48.299
I think it's interesting when you look back on all the classic

250
00:12:48.299 --> 00:12:48.960
doctors.

251
00:12:49.019 --> 00:12:53.639
I think Tom is the one that is instantly there and very much the

252
00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:56.519
performance maybe from his 2nd story is a performance that you

253
00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:59.580
could say is there in his last story.

254
00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:02.340
Whereas everybody else, there is a shakedown period, I think, with

255
00:13:02.340 --> 00:13:02.820
everyone.

256
00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:07.440
I think you can see a shift in all of their performances after, you

257
00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:10.200
know, a number of stories or a season and a half or whatever it

258
00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:11.100
happens to be.

259
00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:14.639
I think the other thing with Matt is the fact that he gets to pull

260
00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:17.159
all this stuff on camera without it being broadcast.

261
00:13:17.220 --> 00:13:22.259
So he's quite free to do whatever he wants and take risks and try

262
00:13:22.259 --> 00:13:24.419
things and just be him.

263
00:13:24.419 --> 00:13:27.539
And, you know, riders haven't necessarily seen him.

264
00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:31.679
There's no preconceived sort of ideas about what he should be

265
00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:32.039
doing.

266
00:13:32.100 --> 00:13:36.779
And so I think that really does help him in this season, perhaps

267
00:13:36.779 --> 00:13:42.059
to go out there and redefine the role and and make it as broad or

268
00:13:42.059 --> 00:13:42.899
as narrow as he wants.

269
00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:44.940
It's funny.

270
00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:49.679
I've sort of suggested before that I think that maybe once he is a

271
00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:54.059
known quantity, the writing tries to get him to do sort of Matt

272
00:13:54.059 --> 00:13:59.340
Smith style things, and I wonder what we'll think of that when we

273
00:13:59.340 --> 00:14:01.980
actually start to look closely at what's to calm.

274
00:14:02.460 --> 00:14:06.720
I think that also had an impact on the performance because the 1st

275
00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:09.659
thing that Matt shot after the series had gone out and he knew

276
00:14:09.659 --> 00:14:13.019
that he'd been a success and the show was still a success was his

277
00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:14.639
appearance in the Sarah Jane adventures.

278
00:14:14.700 --> 00:14:17.460
And then he came back and did a Christmas carol.

279
00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:20.700
And I think his performance in both of those and going forwards is

280
00:14:20.700 --> 00:14:23.700
appreciably different, not better, not worse, but a little bit

281
00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:26.879
different because he has that confidence of knowing that he was a

282
00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:27.299
success.

283
00:14:27.899 --> 00:14:31.980
I was about to say, there's a confidence in him, especially in

284
00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:32.879
that Christmas special.

285
00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:34.259
He's more confident.

286
00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:37.440
I'm not saying dramatically more, but there is just a little

287
00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:38.519
something, you know?

288
00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:41.759
I think too, and we're going to talk about this in our next

289
00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:47.100
episode, in a few weeks time, that Stephen Moffatt is now writing

290
00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:51.179
for him, and it's Stephen Moffatt doing the Christmas special that

291
00:14:51.179 --> 00:14:52.320
he had always wanted to do.

292
00:14:52.379 --> 00:14:56.639
So it's extremely good, but he's definitely writing for Matt's

293
00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:57.299
strengths in it.

294
00:14:57.299 --> 00:15:01.919
And I think it's a real kind of peak of Matt's performance in the

295
00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:02.340
show.

296
00:15:02.460 --> 00:15:05.700
Do you think that some of this series is not written for Matt?

297
00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:09.600
like it was written for David and it was just left or we went back

298
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:10.440
and revised it.

299
00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:14.460
I mean, because obviously Stephen was trying to get David to stay

300
00:15:14.460 --> 00:15:14.700
on.

301
00:15:14.700 --> 00:15:19.620
My understanding is that they had negotiated with David for quite

302
00:15:19.620 --> 00:15:21.960
a while before they made the decision.

303
00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:25.500
Well, before David made the decision not to come back.

304
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:27.360
It was months of negotiation.

305
00:15:28.259 --> 00:15:29.759
Oh, come back, come back.

306
00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:30.659
And he almost did.

307
00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:35.519
So I think there's there's a truth in that that those 1st sort of

308
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:41.340
4 or 5 episodes are not necessarily pitched format, but he's still

309
00:15:41.340 --> 00:15:42.059
brilliant in them.

310
00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:44.639
There was also quite a long lead up for this series.

311
00:15:44.700 --> 00:15:45.960
It had a very long pre-production.

312
00:15:46.019 --> 00:15:49.259
So I'm sure that Stephen would have been tailoring the role more

313
00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:51.179
for he saw Matt's performance as.

314
00:16:01.860 --> 00:16:04.919
All right, time for snob marrying void, I think.

315
00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:07.740
Liz 10, Sophie or Nasrene Chaudhary.

316
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.379
Oh, God, I love Sophie.

317
00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:12.120
I'm like James Corden.

318
00:16:12.179 --> 00:16:12.899
I love Sophie.

319
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:15.120
She is so superb.

320
00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:16.320
I love Daisy Haggard.

321
00:16:16.379 --> 00:16:20.100
So I would, I would snog her, I think.

322
00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:23.340
I think I would marry Nurse Ring, because, I mean, I think she's

323
00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:28.919
very, very smart and I would absolutely not tire of her.

324
00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:37.139
I just think she is one of the best guest stars in this in this

325
00:16:37.139 --> 00:16:37.559
season.

326
00:16:37.620 --> 00:16:42.480
And it's partly down to, it's mostly down to, um, to the

327
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:43.379
performance though, I think.

328
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:46.559
There is that venerable Doctor Who tradition of pairing the doctor

329
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:51.240
with slightly older female character who comes in.

330
00:16:51.299 --> 00:16:52.320
We saw it with Ida Scott.

331
00:16:52.379 --> 00:16:55.320
We saw it back in the old days with Dr. Todd from Kinder and that

332
00:16:55.379 --> 00:16:56.700
it works every damn time.

333
00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:00.000
Yeah, it's great actually older than the doctor as well.

334
00:17:00.059 --> 00:17:03.480
And that, that's what happens with Neresa Hughes's character, isn't

335
00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:04.500
it, in Kinder?

336
00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:05.099
Yeah.

337
00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:06.960
Yeah, it works really terrifically well.

338
00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:09.539
And then the 3rd choice was...

339
00:17:09.539 --> 00:17:12.839
She's the bloody queen, mate.

340
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:15.059
You'd get to be the prince consort.

341
00:17:15.180 --> 00:17:17.039
I would. get to be Prince Philip.

342
00:17:17.099 --> 00:17:18.599
If you avoid her, she might behead you.

343
00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:19.980
Yeah she is great.

344
00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:21.180
This is super difficult.

345
00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:22.380
They're actually all really good.

346
00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:24.660
I got 3 fantastic choices.

347
00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:29.640
I really like Liz Tan, and I think it's an amazingly great

348
00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:32.460
performance, and it was such a thrill to see her back in episode

349
00:17:32.460 --> 00:17:33.539
12, wasn't it?

350
00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:35.579
She's just terrific.

351
00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:39.359
But as a Republican, I would have to avoid her, I think.

352
00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:40.619
Fair enough.

353
00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:42.420
Todd, I take issue with these questions.

354
00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:45.599
How come Nathan gets Liz 10 and people like that?

355
00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:46.980
And I get Dorium?

356
00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:50.099
comic effect.

357
00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:54.119
Oh, Peter, you know, I have to get back at you, sir.

358
00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:57.240
In my CSO kitchen.

359
00:17:57.299 --> 00:18:01.740
But that's one of the things I love about Moffat's Doctor Who in

360
00:18:01.740 --> 00:18:03.539
his season plot arcs.

361
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:09.059
He does it again and again where he will get characters that he's

362
00:18:09.059 --> 00:18:11.819
introduced throughout the season and then all have them kind of

363
00:18:11.819 --> 00:18:14.460
teaming up towards the end of the season.

364
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:20.880
He does it fantastically in series 5, in series 6, you get that

365
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:22.140
twice, really.

366
00:18:23.220 --> 00:18:26.039
And it's just fun.

367
00:18:26.099 --> 00:18:30.119
And obviously, you know, it's all filmed at the same time and just

368
00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:31.019
inserted.

369
00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:37.319
But it really gives a sense of coherence and like Todd was saying

370
00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:42.779
earlier, that sort of continuous story, like a novel on

371
00:18:42.779 --> 00:18:43.259
television.

372
00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:46.980
I mean, Russell makes an attempt to bring everything together at

373
00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:51.000
the end of the season, but generally, the way he does that is by

374
00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:56.880
making the finale a kind of sequel to a story earlier in the run

375
00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:01.859
and also foregrounding, the companions' families, which is

376
00:19:01.859 --> 00:19:07.680
something that Moffat obviously doesn't have, although Tabitha and

377
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:10.380
Augustus do come in in the final episode.

378
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:12.779
Tiny, tiny, little.

379
00:19:12.779 --> 00:19:13.619
It's so great.

380
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:14.519
Is that their name?

381
00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:15.420
That's their name.

382
00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:19.319
So they have fairy tale names as well, which I just think is

383
00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:20.519
terrific.

384
00:19:20.579 --> 00:19:22.440
I didn't know that until today.

385
00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:24.900
Sounds like what they should have named the cats.

386
00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:27.599
What's the aunt's name?

387
00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:29.160
Oh, she's Aunt Sharon.

388
00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:30.119
Auntie Sharon.

389
00:19:30.180 --> 00:19:30.900
Sharon?

390
00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:34.140
Tabitha and Augustus.

391
00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:38.700
Yeah, I want Sharon to be Tabitha's sister, I think.

392
00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:42.779
Although it's not absolutely made clear in the script.

393
00:19:42.779 --> 00:19:44.279
And she is fabulous.

394
00:19:44.339 --> 00:19:47.339
She does give good exasperated face in that final episode.

395
00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:49.019
It was the neris role.

396
00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:51.359
That's what I was thinking.

397
00:19:51.420 --> 00:19:54.960
Now I'm going to forget about these things after this episode.

398
00:19:55.019 --> 00:19:58.859
So it's interesting, isn't it, because Russell creates the family

399
00:19:58.859 --> 00:20:02.279
who you follow, whereas Moffatt's more interested in the family of

400
00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:05.339
the season, the characters who you've kind of become familiar with

401
00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:06.599
and he uses them in the same way.

402
00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:09.900
Do you think it's a shame that we never see them again or?

403
00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:13.500
I don't...

404
00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:17.400
I am happy for the show to move on and do something new.

405
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:18.480
I think that's it.

406
00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:21.000
And it very clearly says it's going to do that.

407
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:25.440
At the end of the season finale, they jump in the TARDIS, pop

408
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.700
their head out and go, yes, this is goodbye. and run off.

409
00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:31.259
It's like, you know, that was fun.

410
00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:32.819
We're gonna do something else now.

411
00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:33.839
Yeah, yeah.

412
00:20:34.140 --> 00:20:38.519
So let's talk about the runaway bride, as opposed to the runaway

413
00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:39.240
couple at the moment.

414
00:20:39.299 --> 00:20:41.400
Amy or Amelia?

415
00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:42.420
Or both.

416
00:20:42.539 --> 00:20:45.720
What are your views now that we've seen a whole series?

417
00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:50.519
I think that Amy is really great.

418
00:20:50.579 --> 00:20:54.660
And I like how spiky she is.

419
00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:59.579
I like how sort of sexually aggressive she is.

420
00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:04.799
I actually even like how kind of dismissive she is of Rory.

421
00:21:04.859 --> 00:21:07.319
I think all of those things are funny.

422
00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:09.779
I think she's a good, solid sitcom character.

423
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:16.319
I think Caitlin Blackwood is astonishingly good. as an actor in

424
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:17.400
that 1st scene.

425
00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:21.180
Like, just amazing for a child actor.

426
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:27.240
But when she comes back in the finale, she is very sidelined, like

427
00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:30.420
she doesn't get to do anything particularly interesting.

428
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:32.099
And so, I don't know.

429
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:38.339
I think that there's something to having an adult woman who is in

430
00:21:38.339 --> 00:21:40.619
a sexual relationship in the TARDIS.

431
00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:42.180
I'm absolutely on board with it.

432
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:46.140
It's Moffat who introduces it and it is that thing where you don't

433
00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:48.779
get to go on adventures because you have to be at home being a

434
00:21:48.779 --> 00:21:53.579
wife and we jettison that absolutely firmly in this season and I'm

435
00:21:53.579 --> 00:21:53.940
all here for it.

436
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:58.799
Something that I noticed over the range of the season was that Amy

437
00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:00.480
is quite a comic book character.

438
00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:05.039
I think she's less grounded and less real feeling than someone

439
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:06.119
like Martha.

440
00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:07.319
Oh, yeah.

441
00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:07.799
Rose.

442
00:22:07.859 --> 00:22:12.839
And I think the performance does an awful lot to ground her and to

443
00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:14.400
make her seem more like a real person.

444
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:19.200
Karen's got comic ticks and that, most of which work and some of

445
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:24.299
which take me out of it a little bit, but she absolutely brings a

446
00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:28.079
gravity to Amy in the serious moments and makes you feel like this

447
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:29.579
is a real person with actual steaks.

448
00:22:30.660 --> 00:22:36.180
Wow, a gravity to Amy in serious moments.

449
00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.160
I could never have put it like that.

450
00:22:38.220 --> 00:22:41.759
But now you say it, that's exactly what it is.

451
00:22:41.819 --> 00:22:45.539
And that's my discovering in this season that Karen is so much

452
00:22:45.539 --> 00:22:46.680
better than I thought.

453
00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:51.000
She's got the comedy, but towards the end, when there are large

454
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:51.420
stakes.

455
00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:55.319
She really does make you feel for what's going on and I think

456
00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:56.339
that's been tremendous.

457
00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:00.420
I vocalise that I'm not the greatest fan of Amy, and I still will

458
00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:03.779
say that, you know, at times in the season, I do struggle with the

459
00:23:03.779 --> 00:23:07.500
characterisation and how she's written, not what Karen's going

460
00:23:07.500 --> 00:23:07.799
for.

461
00:23:07.859 --> 00:23:11.819
But I'm liking her a lot more, and I'm hoping that that will

462
00:23:11.819 --> 00:23:17.099
continue in through next series, which I always did like her more

463
00:23:17.099 --> 00:23:18.359
as she went along anyway.

464
00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:24.180
But, you know, it's a big jump for me going from what I would say

465
00:23:24.180 --> 00:23:28.319
up to this point of the, the, the 4 female companions.

466
00:23:28.380 --> 00:23:31.259
She'd be my least favourite, but now I'm not so sure.

467
00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:35.759
Moffat gets all the kudos for casting Matt Smith, and so he should

468
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:38.400
because it was an absolute casting coup, but we sometimes forget

469
00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.579
that he then did the same thing with Karen Gillan and found

470
00:23:41.579 --> 00:23:45.000
somebody else who could play in that register and be the perfect

471
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.660
accompaniment format, and that's a success in itself.

472
00:23:49.259 --> 00:23:53.880
Look, I think the casting of all 3 leads in this series is

473
00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:54.660
brilliant.

474
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:58.920
Arthur Darville, you know, is sidelined for the, you know, for a

475
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:05.339
lot of this season, but he's a bloody good actor, and he, he's a

476
00:24:05.339 --> 00:24:10.859
perfect foil for their outrageously irresponsible behaviour.

477
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:16.440
Yeah, I think too, given that they are in some sense sitcom

478
00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:19.859
characters, like given that so often they're doing jokes and

479
00:24:19.859 --> 00:24:24.539
trying to make us laugh, that Arthur fits into that very well.

480
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:28.920
And we talked about that 2 weeks ago in, you know, those absurdly

481
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:33.119
comic moments in the Pandorica opens that centre around, kind of

482
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.480
Matt suddenly realising that Arthur's back.

483
00:24:36.539 --> 00:24:41.759
And he plays it really, very well, but he is a bit more grounded

484
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:45.059
and he does tend to get lost in the mix a bit in series five.

485
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:50.339
Absolutely Rory is Ricky and the doctor and Amy are both Lucy.

486
00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:59.519
Eric Stadnick says Nurse Rory or Centurion Rory.

487
00:24:59.579 --> 00:25:00.240
Both.

488
00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:05.519
Moffat has a very weird sex comedy thing going on about people

489
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:09.900
getting dressed up in costumes and nurses costumes in particular.

490
00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:15.180
There's a scene in press gang where someone says that nurses

491
00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:19.380
costumes looked terrible and Linda Day replies sort of fairly

492
00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:20.700
awkwardly.

493
00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:24.119
Oh, yes, and they're so uncomfortable and then is sort of slightly

494
00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:27.180
embarrassed as if she's sort of dressing up as a nurse to have sex

495
00:25:27.180 --> 00:25:28.859
with Dexter Fletcher.

496
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:32.940
And it just seems very period.

497
00:25:33.059 --> 00:25:38.099
Like he is a middle-aged man writing about sex who wrote sex

498
00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:39.480
comedies in the 90s.

499
00:25:39.539 --> 00:25:43.019
And so that's why when we 1st meet Karen, she's dressed up as a

500
00:25:43.019 --> 00:25:43.980
police woman.

501
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:47.519
And then in our next episode.

502
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.099
She'll be dressed as a policewoman and he'll be dressed as a

503
00:25:50.099 --> 00:25:53.640
centurion so that they can have sex on the enterprise in their

504
00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:54.240
honeymoon.

505
00:25:54.299 --> 00:25:57.599
And so they turn up on the bridge looking really shamefaced

506
00:25:57.599 --> 00:25:59.579
because these are their sex outfits.

507
00:25:59.700 --> 00:26:03.059
It's very weird.

508
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:06.960
This would also explain why Sister Lamont was such a pinup for so

509
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:07.980
many boys in the 70s.

510
00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:09.599
Oh, and me, particularly.

511
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:13.200
It explains his homosexuality.

512
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:18.900
I think I'm going to go with Centurion Rory moving forward.

513
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.440
He has a confidence about him that perhaps Nurse Rory didn't.

514
00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:23.460
Says big finish.

515
00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:24.839
Yes.

516
00:26:24.900 --> 00:26:25.559
Yeah.

517
00:26:25.619 --> 00:26:26.819
Someone said it 3 times.

518
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:28.559
What, Centurion Rory.

519
00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:30.059
Yeah, they've done it.

520
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:33.240
They've done a spinoff series with Arthur Darville playing the

521
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:34.079
Lone Centurion.

522
00:26:34.140 --> 00:26:34.920
Of course they have.

523
00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:38.160
And we know that Centurion Rory gives good sortie.

524
00:26:56.220 --> 00:26:57.599
Snog Murry avoid.

525
00:26:57.660 --> 00:27:03.900
Prisoner Zero, the Star Whale, or the Ironsides.

526
00:27:05.099 --> 00:27:12.900
I saw Prisoner Zero giving you the eye. of them.

527
00:27:14.099 --> 00:27:19.500
So I think I'd marry the star whale because it'll put up with a

528
00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:20.160
hell of a lot.

529
00:27:20.220 --> 00:27:21.180
Yep.

530
00:27:21.660 --> 00:27:23.940
Also takes you where you want to go.

531
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:25.500
I'll leave that there.

532
00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:29.759
I would snog prisoner Zero.

533
00:27:29.819 --> 00:27:31.980
Very carefully, I would think.

534
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:32.640
Very careful.

535
00:27:32.700 --> 00:27:33.720
Lots of tea.

536
00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:34.799
Yeah, the tongue though.

537
00:27:34.859 --> 00:27:36.180
What form?

538
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:37.859
Mostly tongue.

539
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:39.779
What form would it be in?

540
00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:43.740
Oh, you get to snug Olivia Goldman.

541
00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:44.460
Or Matt Smith?

542
00:27:44.579 --> 00:27:46.859
No, definitely, definitely Olivia Coleman.

543
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:50.579
Not in mother mode, though.

544
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:52.019
You wouldn't want to marry him.

545
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:52.920
But the kids were older.

546
00:27:52.980 --> 00:27:54.000
The kids would always be there.

547
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:59.819
And I would avoid the Ionsides because they're devious bastards.

548
00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:02.279
I really like the Ironside.

549
00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:03.359
Yeah, they make your tea.

550
00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:04.259
Yeah.

551
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:05.339
Yeah they're good.

552
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:07.319
And then exterminate you.

553
00:28:09.059 --> 00:28:13.740
A long time ago, Peter, you mentioned something about Stephen

554
00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:15.180
Moffatt failures.

555
00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:19.500
How would we react to Stephen Moffatt not hitting an episode out

556
00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:23.700
of the ballpark like he has for the last 4 series because he's

557
00:28:23.700 --> 00:28:26.400
only had an episode or 2 to do and this year he's had to do so

558
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:26.759
much more.

559
00:28:27.059 --> 00:28:30.599
How do you feel about his episodes this year?

560
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:34.559
I'm thinking now about the Beast Below, which I really, really

561
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:37.740
like now, but at the time I thought had a lot of problems.

562
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:41.339
And there's certainly maybe a few little elements in there that

563
00:28:41.339 --> 00:28:44.519
don't quite work the way Stephen wanted to, but I actually think

564
00:28:44.519 --> 00:28:48.059
is actually a really solid episode of Doctor Who.

565
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:52.859
How do you feel about his, and I put in inverted commas, failures

566
00:28:52.859 --> 00:28:58.920
whether that be as a writer of an episode or as the showrunner.

567
00:28:58.980 --> 00:29:03.299
I may have put that slightly unkindly for good reason in that when

568
00:29:03.299 --> 00:29:05.220
I said that I wanted to see Stephen Moffat fail.

569
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:08.460
I wanted to see an episode where everything was not ideal for him

570
00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:11.880
and to see how interesting that would be, whether it was on the

571
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:15.299
production side or whether he was too rushed with writing it, and

572
00:29:15.299 --> 00:29:18.839
I'm sad slash overjoyed to report that that hasn't happened this

573
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:19.079
season.

574
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:23.160
We've seen Stephen firing on all cylinders, every episode

575
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:26.400
including the beast below, which I think is a really marvellously

576
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:31.619
good script, maybe not quite achieved by the production, but I

577
00:29:31.619 --> 00:29:34.740
think we're going to have to wait until next year to achieve that

578
00:29:34.740 --> 00:29:38.759
phenomenon of Stephen being tired and trying to write something

579
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:41.940
and not quite hitting the mark and it being as interesting as it

580
00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:42.119
is.

581
00:29:42.420 --> 00:29:45.960
If you look at the overall arc of the season.

582
00:29:46.019 --> 00:29:50.579
Um, I think looking back on it now when it feels like it's more

583
00:29:50.579 --> 00:29:54.000
regular, it's incredible to think that someone was able to step

584
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:58.920
into that program and keep it, and keep its profile and keep it as

585
00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:01.799
critically praised as it had been during Russell's era.

586
00:30:01.859 --> 00:30:04.920
And I think this brings me to something which is very important

587
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:09.779
with Doctor Who, which is continuity of people running the show.

588
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:15.180
So back in the 1970s, I think Doctor Who goes off the rails when

589
00:30:15.180 --> 00:30:16.619
it loses its continuity.

590
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:19.740
So as you go through, you will always have someone who is a key

591
00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:22.079
creative under the previous production team.

592
00:30:22.140 --> 00:30:25.440
So you'll have, say, Robert Holmes, who is key creative during the

593
00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:29.039
Barry Letts era, will become a script editor.

594
00:30:29.099 --> 00:30:31.980
And so you have an important figure there who knows how the show

595
00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:32.279
works.

596
00:30:32.339 --> 00:30:38.220
And Blake 7 clearly killed Doctor Who in the 1970s because it took

597
00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:43.440
the 2 people who were the obvious continuity showrunners away.

598
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:46.559
So once you reach the end of the Hinchcliffe era, clearly David

599
00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:50.039
Maloney should have been the next producer, having played a very

600
00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:50.819
important role.

601
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:54.240
And Chris Belcher was clearly being groomed as the new script

602
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:54.839
editor.

603
00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:57.839
And if both of them had stepped in, business as usual, doctor

604
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:01.920
would continue to be a creative and popular success, which didn't

605
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:02.579
have any issues.

606
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:04.859
Unfortunately, they were both poached for Blake 7.

607
00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:08.460
And instead you got 2 people who'd never worked on the show and

608
00:31:08.460 --> 00:31:10.920
didn't have a clear idea of what they wanted it to be.

609
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:15.059
They would have great successes, but it removed that line of

610
00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:15.779
continuity.

611
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:19.319
So bring us back to Stephen Moffat.

612
00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:23.220
He was the very clear person who needed to take over.

613
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:26.640
He had done so well under the previous production team and had a

614
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:29.339
very clear idea of what he wanted to do with the show.

615
00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:33.299
And I think that could have been gotten wrong very easily and we

616
00:31:33.299 --> 00:31:36.599
wouldn't be here talking about the show as a current item now.

617
00:31:36.660 --> 00:31:37.440
Yeah.

618
00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:38.880
Nathan?

619
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:42.480
I would have to agree with Peter.

620
00:31:42.539 --> 00:31:45.660
I think that we are going to start seeing interesting failures

621
00:31:45.660 --> 00:31:51.720
next year and those are episodes that I tend to like more than

622
00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:56.819
most people, I think, but I do recognise that they fall to bits in

623
00:31:56.819 --> 00:31:58.079
all sorts of important ways.

624
00:31:58.140 --> 00:32:04.619
I think the flaws in next year's season are also in the ones that

625
00:32:04.619 --> 00:32:08.339
Moffatt didn't write, particularly.

626
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:13.619
Here, clearly, for some reason, Chris Chibnell is thought to be a

627
00:32:13.619 --> 00:32:15.420
safe pair of hands.

628
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:19.319
And I do think that that two-parter fails.

629
00:32:19.380 --> 00:32:21.240
It is not very good.

630
00:32:21.299 --> 00:32:28.619
And it's possible that bringing the Silurians back is not a good

631
00:32:28.619 --> 00:32:29.220
decision.

632
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:31.740
They've never been back since.

633
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:34.740
We've had the single character of Madame Vastra, who works very

634
00:32:34.740 --> 00:32:38.160
well, but we've never had another Silurian story, and I think

635
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:43.019
doing the Silurians is a mistake, and it is possible that the

636
00:32:43.019 --> 00:32:48.539
Silurians only really ever work in their 1st story, that they seem

637
00:32:48.539 --> 00:32:51.000
to be there to tell a particular story.

638
00:32:51.059 --> 00:32:55.680
But Moffatt wants to bring them back into the fold, you know, to

639
00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:59.039
be part of Doctor Who Law, the way that Russell had done with the

640
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:01.500
Santarans and the Daleks and the Cyberman.

641
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:06.059
But I think maybe the Salurians were the wrong choice.

642
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:11.039
And so that might be his one kind of bad creative decision this

643
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:11.400
season.

644
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:17.759
Moffatt, I think, fails upwards a lot of the time. either because

645
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:22.500
he's got a good production team around him or because even when

646
00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:25.140
things don't work.

647
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:32.640
There's so much creative energy and so many, really through

648
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:36.180
interesting, clever ideas that he uses again and again and again

649
00:33:36.180 --> 00:33:38.400
by the end of his era.

650
00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:46.079
I think if you can criticise Buffett for anything, it's being too

651
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:51.180
creative and having too many ideas to fit into an episode.

652
00:33:51.299 --> 00:33:54.059
It's never an absence of that.

653
00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:59.700
It's never, oh, he was trying something, and he didn't have the

654
00:33:59.700 --> 00:34:01.740
skill to achieve it.

655
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:04.319
Something else has gone wrong.

656
00:34:04.380 --> 00:34:07.079
It's not, that wasn't a good enough idea.

657
00:34:07.140 --> 00:34:09.360
That wasn't clever enough.

658
00:34:09.420 --> 00:34:11.460
That wasn't witty enough.

659
00:34:11.579 --> 00:34:14.699
Like he's he's always reaching for something.

660
00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:19.440
He doesn't always get there, but he's always got an abundance of

661
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:21.239
creativity and ambition, I think.

662
00:34:21.300 --> 00:34:25.139
Stephen has a baseline of ambition and creativity, doesn't he?

663
00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:27.719
He will always deliver on something for you.

664
00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:31.739
So no matter how tired, how pressured, how many things he's got on

665
00:34:31.739 --> 00:34:35.519
his plate, whatever he serves you up will have something or many

666
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:37.619
things in it where you go, that's interesting.

667
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:40.559
It's just whether it comes together in a brilliant hole.

668
00:34:40.619 --> 00:34:43.260
Most of the time it does, sometimes it doesn't.

669
00:34:43.380 --> 00:34:46.679
You could never accuse him of having a lack of imagination.

670
00:34:46.739 --> 00:34:47.099
No.

671
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:57.179
I think it's interesting, like, Peter, you were saying, and I

672
00:34:57.179 --> 00:34:59.639
agree with you, I think all of these episodes that he writes this

673
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:00.900
year, are a success.

674
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:03.420
The episodes that are not written by him.

675
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:07.860
There are some that are a big success and others that perhaps are

676
00:35:07.860 --> 00:35:09.659
not quite as successful, right?

677
00:35:09.780 --> 00:35:15.539
And as a showrunner, I mean, you compare with Russell as to

678
00:35:15.539 --> 00:35:19.320
throwing around terms here, success and values, and we're never

679
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:23.699
quite sure how much of a rewrite things are and how much they're

680
00:35:23.699 --> 00:35:24.420
put into the script.

681
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:28.079
And so I think it's always interesting to look at those episodes

682
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:32.460
perhaps not written by him and just seeing how successful they

683
00:35:32.460 --> 00:35:36.960
perhaps are and how much of a season thematic continuity is worked

684
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:40.440
in and seeing whether you can really see his hand in it or not.

685
00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:41.760
I find that quite interesting.

686
00:35:41.820 --> 00:35:45.059
It's rarely commented on the fact that Stephen doesn't have

687
00:35:45.059 --> 00:35:45.539
Stephen.

688
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:49.079
So Russell was very lucky and that he had 2 episodes a year

689
00:35:49.079 --> 00:35:51.539
sometimes, which he could just hand off to Stephen and they would

690
00:35:51.539 --> 00:35:54.480
come back fully formed and so we had those and we had the Russell

691
00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:54.900
episodes.

692
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:56.340
Stephen doesn't have a Stephen.

693
00:35:56.460 --> 00:36:00.179
Yeah, there's no one completely reliable whom he doesn't have to

694
00:36:00.179 --> 00:36:01.139
kind of rewrite.

695
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:01.679
That's right.

696
00:36:01.739 --> 00:36:02.039
Not yet.

697
00:36:02.099 --> 00:36:04.019
Liam McNicholas.

698
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:05.460
Ask us this.

699
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:08.460
Would you like to see Simon Nye and Richard Curtis Wright more

700
00:36:08.460 --> 00:36:08.820
who?

701
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:11.940
I think they have a very different take and would love to see

702
00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:12.420
another one.

703
00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:16.199
You were talking about this the other day in one of the episodes

704
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:19.380
about having these one-off writers that Stephen knows that have

705
00:36:19.380 --> 00:36:22.260
done big films and other things and it's really great to see their

706
00:36:22.260 --> 00:36:25.679
different take on things and bring a different slant to stuff and

707
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:26.460
it's really interesting.

708
00:36:26.519 --> 00:36:29.699
I personally don't necessarily see them coming back again because

709
00:36:29.699 --> 00:36:32.820
I think it's their one big idea that they've got, that they've

710
00:36:32.820 --> 00:36:36.539
always wanted to do on Doctor Who, and it's a case of sequelitis.

711
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:39.840
But I do like the fact that if you bring in big names to do an

712
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:40.440
episode.

713
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:44.519
I think we get that perhaps with the doctor's wife next year

714
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:45.179
right?

715
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:48.659
You often have a genesis of an idea that, depending on how much

716
00:36:48.659 --> 00:36:51.900
they write or what Stephen takes with it, can then form an episode

717
00:36:51.900 --> 00:36:52.739
that is exceptional.

718
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:55.440
And we've seen that with Vincent and the doctor, which I don't

719
00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:58.980
necessarily think is the best episode ever, but the last 15

720
00:36:58.980 --> 00:37:00.119
minutes just saw.

721
00:37:00.659 --> 00:37:04.500
I think that this is something that Russell had tried to do, isn't

722
00:37:04.500 --> 00:37:04.679
it?

723
00:37:04.739 --> 00:37:06.000
He tried to get Stephen Fry.

724
00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:07.320
He tried to get Paul Abbott.

725
00:37:07.380 --> 00:37:12.000
He had wanted to get sort of big riders from TV outside of the

726
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:12.179
show.

727
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:14.940
I mean he gets... sometimes did, Matthew Graham, for instance.

728
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:16.139
Yeah, Matthew Graham, exactly.

729
00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:17.579
How did that go?

730
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:25.139
And yes, maybe both Matthew Graham and Neil Gaiman are sort of

731
00:37:25.139 --> 00:37:31.619
good counterexamples to this because when they come back, I think

732
00:37:31.619 --> 00:37:35.940
they don't do anywhere near as good a job as they do the 1st

733
00:37:35.940 --> 00:37:36.300
time.

734
00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:41.280
And Matthew Graham did fear her, which is not great, but it also

735
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:45.659
suffers from its incredible similarity to the idiot's lantern.

736
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:49.800
So that's a problem for it, but it does at least try and do

737
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:50.639
something different.

738
00:37:50.699 --> 00:37:54.179
The monster is something that we've never experienced before.

739
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:57.539
He doesn't know how Doctor Who works, so he thinks they're going

740
00:37:57.539 --> 00:38:01.380
to be able to recreate the opening ceremony of the 2012 games in a

741
00:38:01.380 --> 00:38:04.860
way that is in any way satisfactory.

742
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:07.079
And of course, they can't do that.

743
00:38:07.139 --> 00:38:11.699
But having someone who is skilled at writing television, but not

744
00:38:11.699 --> 00:38:14.940
versed in Doctor Who, I think is a good idea.

745
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:21.239
And one of the problems with say it in the 80s, for instance, is

746
00:38:21.239 --> 00:38:25.019
that he had sort of ring fenced around the people that he thought

747
00:38:25.019 --> 00:38:29.760
could write Doctor Who, and he would say, most people can't do it

748
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:32.400
you know, most people can't write Doctor Who, even if they're good

749
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:32.940
writers.

750
00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:36.480
And one of the things that make Karm more successful is he throws

751
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:40.139
that out and just gets young riders in and gets them to write

752
00:38:40.139 --> 00:38:44.760
brilliant Doctor Who. basically creates a sort of an embryonic

753
00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:45.840
writer's room.

754
00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:46.559
Yeah.

755
00:38:46.619 --> 00:38:47.219
Yeah.

756
00:38:47.219 --> 00:38:47.579
Yeah.

757
00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:50.099
And he was very collaborative in that.

758
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:55.380
And that's why his series of Doctor Who are still highly regarded

759
00:38:55.380 --> 00:38:59.639
I think, because it was so collaborative and like there was a

760
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:00.360
coherence there.

761
00:39:00.420 --> 00:39:03.780
As a showrunner, you have to be willing to put in the work with

762
00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:06.840
someone who's not familiar with the series or maybe hasn't written

763
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:10.440
in that genre before, but the point of getting involved, people

764
00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:15.119
like Simon Nye on Amy's choice and Richard Curtis, was they bring

765
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:15.420
a voice?

766
00:39:15.539 --> 00:39:16.139
Yeah.

767
00:39:16.139 --> 00:39:18.960
And that voice is so important to the episodes that they have.

768
00:39:19.019 --> 00:39:22.139
Maybe the problem with Matthew Graham was he didn't particularly

769
00:39:22.139 --> 00:39:22.559
bring a voice.

770
00:39:22.619 --> 00:39:26.760
And so fear her doesn't feel like anything in particular, but I

771
00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:28.860
absolutely applaud Stephen for doing that.

772
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:31.500
I think that the people he brings on board make for really

773
00:39:31.500 --> 00:39:35.579
interesting episodes, maybe not 100% successful, but really

774
00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:36.000
interesting.

775
00:39:36.300 --> 00:39:40.679
I was astounded this time around by Amy's choice and how

776
00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:42.059
incredibly good it is.

777
00:39:42.119 --> 00:39:48.659
And by how it's absolutely pivotal to the season arc.

778
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:52.500
And I just would love to know how that happened.

779
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:56.820
Like, to what extent was he briefed by Stephen?

780
00:39:56.880 --> 00:39:59.579
You know, at what point was he told this has to be the episode

781
00:39:59.579 --> 00:40:03.840
where we really properly discovered that Amy loves Rory?

782
00:40:03.900 --> 00:40:06.179
It's so important and it's so good.

783
00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:07.320
It's so interesting.

784
00:40:07.380 --> 00:40:09.119
It's properly hilarious.

785
00:40:09.179 --> 00:40:10.320
It's imaginative.

786
00:40:10.380 --> 00:40:13.320
You know, he creates a great role in the Dreamlord.

787
00:40:13.380 --> 00:40:14.820
I think he's really, really good.

788
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:20.519
So, yeah, I'm 100% behind bringing people like that in, but

789
00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:24.960
eventually I think there's probably diminishing returns. like all

790
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:25.559
that you've said.

791
00:40:25.619 --> 00:40:28.679
Like, I think coming in for an episode is good. having them back

792
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:32.460
again, probably not so much, and also what you said about the fact

793
00:40:32.460 --> 00:40:36.420
that Russell did have Stephen, that he could rely on.

794
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:38.639
Stephen doesn't have that same person.

795
00:40:38.699 --> 00:40:44.880
And so, I think, as he gets tighter and more production begins to

796
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:47.940
speed up and he's got less time, then you start to see a few more

797
00:40:47.940 --> 00:40:50.219
cracks, but that doesn't mean to say that's a bad thing.

798
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:52.139
There's still interesting things happening.

799
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:55.320
Some episodes are more successful than others and we'll obviously

800
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:57.900
talk more about that as we, as we move forward.

801
00:40:57.960 --> 00:40:59.820
I think I saw a few cracks this season.

802
00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:01.260
Just a few.

803
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:03.360
Boom, boom.

804
00:41:15.420 --> 00:41:19.199
Well, speaking of episodes, is there a particular episode this

805
00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:22.380
season for any of you that stands out above the rest?

806
00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:28.440
I think there's been some really amazing episodes and I could talk

807
00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:29.699
about them until the cows come home.

808
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:34.619
The 11th hour, obviously just an amazing opening episode that

809
00:41:34.619 --> 00:41:37.380
takes, as I said earlier, so many boxes and does it so well.

810
00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:41.519
I think Pandora opens, has a strong case for being the most

811
00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:46.019
successful episode of Doctor Who ever, just in how well it fulfils

812
00:41:46.019 --> 00:41:47.579
its mission.

813
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:51.539
The time of angels 2 parter is phenomenally good and possibly my

814
00:41:51.539 --> 00:41:52.139
favourite.

815
00:41:52.260 --> 00:41:57.480
My favourite story of the entire new era, just because it is so

816
00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:01.380
many things and so exciting and a level of production that I don't

817
00:42:01.380 --> 00:42:02.940
think we'd ever seen before.

818
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:04.860
However, having said all of that, the lodger.

819
00:42:04.980 --> 00:42:07.619
The lodger is fantastic.

820
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:12.480
It is so warm and so fun and does things the Doctor Who's never

821
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:16.500
done before and wow, you know, we're 50 years into the show and

822
00:42:16.500 --> 00:42:18.719
we're still seeing new styles of episode.

823
00:42:19.380 --> 00:42:22.500
I never would have thought that you would have picked the lodger.

824
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:23.760
That's amazing.

825
00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:24.780
Yeah, it's great.

826
00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:28.739
I think that's something about this season that there's so many

827
00:42:28.739 --> 00:42:31.679
it's so similar, but it's so different and you can, you can pick

828
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:32.400
anything, you know?

829
00:42:32.460 --> 00:42:37.139
I mean, I really adore the 11th hour and I know it's not part of

830
00:42:37.139 --> 00:42:39.360
this season, but the Christmas special is the other one for me

831
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:42.719
that is the big standout, but just coming back to this, every

832
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:48.599
single episode, there are moments that I really love in every

833
00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:51.659
single episode, whether that be heart wrenching or funny or

834
00:42:51.659 --> 00:42:52.860
whatever.

835
00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:57.119
And so, I can pick 2 episodes that I don't particularly care for

836
00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:00.780
which is the 2nd part of that Silurian 2 part, which I think is

837
00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:05.579
appalling or very standard, and the 2nd half, well, bits and

838
00:43:05.579 --> 00:43:06.900
pieces of the Dalek episode, right?

839
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:09.780
They're my 2 that I see falling down, right?

840
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:14.940
But everything else is enjoyable and moments that I would do not.

841
00:43:15.059 --> 00:43:17.519
I think it's after the 1st 13 minutes, isn't that?

842
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:18.480
13.5 minutes.

843
00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:22.800
Yeah, the 1st 13.5 minutes are great.

844
00:43:22.860 --> 00:43:24.659
And then there's the rest of the episode.

845
00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:26.400
Oh, come on, there's the Jamie Dodger thing.

846
00:43:26.699 --> 00:43:33.900
Nathan, I would absolutely agree with Peter's choices there.

847
00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:35.820
Like almost exactly.

848
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:40.139
I think those are the best episodes of the season and they're not

849
00:43:40.139 --> 00:43:41.519
just very good.

850
00:43:41.579 --> 00:43:45.840
They're astoundingly good in places as good as Doctor Who has ever

851
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:46.320
been.

852
00:43:46.619 --> 00:43:52.440
I want to give props to the overlooked vampires of Venice, partly

853
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:58.139
because Helen McCrory is so spectacularly great in it and plays

854
00:43:58.139 --> 00:43:59.760
against Matt Smith so well.

855
00:43:59.820 --> 00:44:05.519
But it also has the sort of it's got 2 unenviable jobs.

856
00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:11.280
And one is being just a standard episode amidst a whole heap of

857
00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:13.619
things that are a bit more kind of interesting.

858
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:20.099
And 2 is being the 1st attempt, the 1st failed attempt to get Amy

859
00:44:20.099 --> 00:44:22.199
to realise how much he loves Rory.

860
00:44:22.260 --> 00:44:23.880
So it doesn't actually work.

861
00:44:23.940 --> 00:44:26.940
It doesn't actually do anything and we have to wait till the

862
00:44:26.940 --> 00:44:29.039
following episode for that to actually happen.

863
00:44:29.099 --> 00:44:32.940
But despite that, it just manages to be solidly enjoyable and to

864
00:44:32.940 --> 00:44:33.840
look pretty great as well.

865
00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:37.199
If that's the standard of your standard episode is pretty high

866
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:37.800
standard, yeah.

867
00:44:37.860 --> 00:44:40.800
Besides, what we always say that, you know, a boring episode is

868
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:44.460
the greatest crime, but interesting failures are much more

869
00:44:44.460 --> 00:44:46.739
interesting than moderate successors.

870
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:50.039
And so even though vampires of Venice doesn't hit, it doesn't

871
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:53.340
score on everything, it's so interesting in so many ways.

872
00:44:53.460 --> 00:44:58.019
With the beast below, it's the other really improved for me this

873
00:44:58.019 --> 00:44:58.679
time round.

874
00:44:58.739 --> 00:45:01.739
And I agree with everything that you just said about that.

875
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:07.739
For me, it would be Vincent and the Doctor, to me, regardless of

876
00:45:07.739 --> 00:45:10.980
quality, Vincent, the Doctor is my favourite Doctor Who story of

877
00:45:10.980 --> 00:45:11.400
all time.

878
00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:14.039
You are very upper middle class, though, Jess.

879
00:45:14.099 --> 00:45:15.539
Yes, I am.

880
00:45:16.380 --> 00:45:20.280
It's just got an emotional resonance with me.

881
00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:25.500
To think growing up, watching Doctor Who, that Doctor Who could do

882
00:45:25.500 --> 00:45:34.139
that, could address depression and mental health and do it in a

883
00:45:34.139 --> 00:45:40.079
quite considered and respectful way and nuanced way.

884
00:45:40.139 --> 00:45:43.679
I, like, it's just I cry for most of that episode.

885
00:45:43.739 --> 00:45:49.500
And to me, it's like the pinnacle of what Doctor Who can be, and

886
00:45:49.500 --> 00:45:55.260
it's almost... feels like it fits more in Russell's era, Doctor

887
00:45:55.260 --> 00:45:57.300
Who, because of emotional heart there.

888
00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:00.780
And being Doctor Who had achieved all of that and threw in a giant

889
00:46:00.780 --> 00:46:01.860
invisible turkey as well.

890
00:46:03.239 --> 00:46:08.159
But even then, you know, crap monster, there's a point to that as

891
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:08.699
well.

892
00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:16.619
And you feel sorry for that monster. that, like, wounded alien

893
00:46:16.619 --> 00:46:17.460
creature as well.

894
00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:20.219
And it's, I know, I just, I just love it so much.

895
00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:27.000
It never ceases to bring a tear tear eye at some point in it.

896
00:46:27.059 --> 00:46:29.940
I mean, the whole them just lying in the field with a starry

897
00:46:29.940 --> 00:46:30.480
starry night.

898
00:46:30.539 --> 00:46:34.260
Like that's that's an amazing moment as much as, you know, for Amy

899
00:46:34.260 --> 00:46:38.699
at the end or Vincent in his own museum, you know, they're all

900
00:46:38.699 --> 00:46:44.940
just incredible moments in that episode, which is, well, sound

901
00:46:44.940 --> 00:46:46.500
like a broken record, just amazing.

902
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:48.840
But now I'll just change tack.

903
00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:52.019
And I'm just going to go to Snog, marry, and avoid for myself, and

904
00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:55.860
it's Rosanna Calvieri, Rest tack, and Ambrose.

905
00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:59.340
You're marrying Ambrose, aren't you?

906
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:02.400
Todd is Ambrose.

907
00:47:03.659 --> 00:47:05.340
Oh wow.

908
00:47:05.820 --> 00:47:08.820
Ambrosia steeped in it.

909
00:47:09.659 --> 00:47:12.539
I'm avoiding Ambrose.

910
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:15.179
I'm going to snog wrestack.

911
00:47:15.300 --> 00:47:17.039
That tongue.

912
00:47:17.099 --> 00:47:18.179
Yeah, yeah.

913
00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:21.239
Which means, you know, I'm going to have to marry Rosanna.

914
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:22.920
She is spectacular.

915
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:29.400
Another spectacular older woman with Matt Smith.

916
00:47:29.460 --> 00:47:32.519
So let's talk about the other older woman that we haven't spoken

917
00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:36.119
about yet, and that has to be River Song, and her involvement with

918
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:37.440
this era of the show.

919
00:47:37.500 --> 00:47:41.760
If Alex Kingston had no chemistry with Matt Smith. would be over.

920
00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:46.260
I think that she is fantastic.

921
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:49.679
It's one of my favourite things about this era is that you have

922
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:51.179
her dropping in occasionally.

923
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:53.639
I love the episodes that she's in.

924
00:47:53.699 --> 00:47:57.420
I think she just lifts any episode that she's a part of.

925
00:47:57.480 --> 00:47:59.639
I think she's wonderful with Matt.

926
00:47:59.699 --> 00:48:02.579
I think the concept of the character is terrific.

927
00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:07.320
I think that 1st introduction in David's last season and the way

928
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:12.360
that that story ends is, you know, astonishing, if not sort of 100

929
00:48:12.360 --> 00:48:16.559
original, I'm totally on board for it, she's absolutely one of the

930
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:17.639
highlights of the era.

931
00:48:17.699 --> 00:48:21.780
And if you can get Alex Kingston to agree to be on your show as

932
00:48:21.780 --> 00:48:24.119
much as that, use her as much as possible.

933
00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:26.760
Yeah, she is fantastic, isn't she?

934
00:48:26.820 --> 00:48:28.739
Do you know who she reminds me of?

935
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:32.159
From the classic series in terms of her importance and her

936
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:32.820
utility?

937
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:33.960
Corporal Bell.

938
00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:40.559
There were freak weather conditions on that beach.

939
00:48:40.619 --> 00:48:42.239
No, the brigadier, actually.

940
00:48:42.300 --> 00:48:43.800
Yeah, I was thinking that too.

941
00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:47.699
She's that important to the show and she just she walks into the

942
00:48:47.699 --> 00:48:52.619
series and pitches her performance so perfectly and the character

943
00:48:52.619 --> 00:48:56.940
fits in so well that she she's in danger of taking over the

944
00:48:56.940 --> 00:48:57.239
series.

945
00:48:57.300 --> 00:48:58.320
She's like the master.

946
00:48:58.380 --> 00:49:00.599
And every time she comes onto the screen.

947
00:49:00.659 --> 00:49:05.699
She absolutely draws your eye and is another principle to match

948
00:49:05.699 --> 00:49:06.179
the doctor.

949
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:09.420
It's an incredible creation river song.

950
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:11.699
I'd happily let her take over the show.

951
00:49:11.820 --> 00:49:13.619
No more Matt.

952
00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:15.179
Well, no, no.

953
00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:20.940
Just, you know, like, the more river in a Doctor Who season, the

954
00:49:20.940 --> 00:49:22.139
better, in my opinion.

955
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:25.619
Can you think of a female character who's been quite like that

956
00:49:25.619 --> 00:49:26.639
ever?

957
00:49:26.699 --> 00:49:27.900
In the series?

958
00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:33.059
Well, yeah, like in Doctor Who, up until this point, because she

959
00:49:33.059 --> 00:49:37.440
has that sort of swagger and bravado and that sort of, you know

960
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:42.360
she's an adventurer, but she's like super glamorous and confident

961
00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:44.519
and absolutely sort of feminine.

962
00:49:44.579 --> 00:49:47.039
I just think she's so fabulous.

963
00:49:47.099 --> 00:49:48.119
It's so interesting.

964
00:49:48.179 --> 00:49:49.980
I think of the Rani.

965
00:49:50.039 --> 00:49:54.900
But the Rani was so 80s and so of that time and that production

966
00:49:54.900 --> 00:49:58.619
team that they never achieve anything of the heights of River song

967
00:49:58.619 --> 00:50:01.440
but she was definitely a prototype kind of character who could

968
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:03.239
have taken over the show in that interesting way.

969
00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:05.940
Yeah, I think she's...

970
00:50:05.940 --> 00:50:11.039
She is a little bit more panto, like in her 2nd appearance, which

971
00:50:11.039 --> 00:50:12.300
is kind of my favourite.

972
00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:16.920
And I like her a great deal, but there is something about this.

973
00:50:16.980 --> 00:50:20.219
And, you know, like we end up complaining that Moffatt writes

974
00:50:20.219 --> 00:50:24.780
strong women because he loves being bossed around by women and

975
00:50:24.780 --> 00:50:26.519
that's his kind of thing.

976
00:50:26.579 --> 00:50:31.679
Like, well, he likes the idea of a sort of hapless man who has a

977
00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:34.199
woman to come in and kind of sort him out.

978
00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:40.860
And that's been variously interpreted as empowering or, you know, a

979
00:50:40.860 --> 00:50:43.440
bit sexist by different critics.

980
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:47.820
But I really like her.

981
00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:51.539
I just think she's amazingly charismatic and she's just fun to

982
00:50:51.539 --> 00:50:52.139
have around.

983
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:55.619
That thing at the beginning of Time of Angels.

984
00:50:55.679 --> 00:51:00.000
That whole sort of wonderful caper sequence and she's in a sort of

985
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.739
gorgeous evening dress and all of that, the heels, the glasses, the

986
00:51:04.739 --> 00:51:05.219
glasses.

987
00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:06.360
It's wonderful.

988
00:51:06.420 --> 00:51:07.559
It's so enjoyable.

989
00:51:07.619 --> 00:51:11.039
You know, it occurs to me, as we're speaking now, that there's

990
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:13.739
sometimes debate over whether the river is a companion or not, you

991
00:51:13.739 --> 00:51:16.739
know, one of those useless canonical debates, but she's not a

992
00:51:16.739 --> 00:51:17.159
companion.

993
00:51:17.219 --> 00:51:17.760
She's a doctor.

994
00:51:17.820 --> 00:51:23.159
She's given the same amount of on-screen presence and backstory

995
00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:27.719
and scenes that she has to herself that she leads and she's played

996
00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:31.619
by an actress who is of a calibre where she just easily could have

997
00:51:31.619 --> 00:51:32.400
been the doctor.

998
00:51:32.460 --> 00:51:34.440
And so when have we had that in the past?

999
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:40.079
It's interesting that you compared it to the brigadier, because I

1000
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:43.500
was just thinking going along the lines of having her in there is

1001
00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:47.519
like having this older female that pops up in all these stories

1002
00:51:47.519 --> 00:51:50.519
but it's an ongoing one, but you're so totally right.

1003
00:51:50.579 --> 00:51:53.760
She just is that other lead in the show.

1004
00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:57.119
And she's brilliant.

1005
00:51:57.179 --> 00:51:57.960
I'm lover.

1006
00:51:58.440 --> 00:52:01.079
I know we're doing the River song podcast.

1007
00:52:01.139 --> 00:52:18.000
We just did it So this is one for everybody.

1008
00:52:18.059 --> 00:52:19.199
Snogmarrier, void.

1009
00:52:19.260 --> 00:52:22.079
Vincent, Craig, Jeff.

1010
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:25.679
So easy, very.

1011
00:52:26.099 --> 00:52:32.280
Snog, Jeff, because look at him, marry Craig and avoid Vincent

1012
00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:33.059
because drama.

1013
00:52:33.179 --> 00:52:34.559
Yeah.

1014
00:52:34.679 --> 00:52:37.320
Well, that lasted all the 5 times.

1015
00:52:37.380 --> 00:52:42.659
See, see, I would marry Vincent because he needs someone to

1016
00:52:42.659 --> 00:52:44.400
support him.

1017
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:45.239
You want to fix her upper?

1018
00:52:45.300 --> 00:52:48.059
No, I just, I have compassion for him.

1019
00:52:48.179 --> 00:52:49.800
Baby.

1020
00:52:50.219 --> 00:52:53.400
Also, he died quite early and left a large estate.

1021
00:52:53.460 --> 00:52:55.019
No, he did.

1022
00:52:55.139 --> 00:52:58.260
He left in a 100 years time.

1023
00:52:58.320 --> 00:52:59.340
Lovely painting.

1024
00:52:59.460 --> 00:53:02.699
Well, it's mainly about the lovely paintings.

1025
00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:05.219
I think Jeff.

1026
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:06.179
Oh, Jeff.

1027
00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:07.980
I know, what a waste.

1028
00:53:08.039 --> 00:53:08.940
The pretty one.

1029
00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:10.079
I said on screen.

1030
00:53:10.139 --> 00:53:12.719
It's so funny that line.

1031
00:53:12.780 --> 00:53:14.219
And Rory's reaction.

1032
00:53:14.280 --> 00:53:14.760
Oh, thanks.

1033
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:16.920
So great.

1034
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:21.300
So I yes, I think if I started snogging Jeff, I wouldn't stop.

1035
00:53:24.659 --> 00:53:28.320
Who are you a fan of this season in terms of actors and actresses

1036
00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:31.260
that have come into the show as guest stars?

1037
00:53:32.219 --> 00:53:35.039
Well, Olivia Coleman, obviously.

1038
00:53:35.099 --> 00:53:36.360
And Helen.

1039
00:53:36.420 --> 00:53:38.880
And Helen McCrory, I think, probably.

1040
00:53:38.940 --> 00:53:40.440
And Daisy Haggard.

1041
00:53:40.500 --> 00:53:42.300
Oh, Daisy Haggard, absolutely.

1042
00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:44.639
I mean, it's an unshowy part, isn't it?

1043
00:53:44.699 --> 00:53:46.079
She is magnificent.

1044
00:53:46.139 --> 00:53:49.019
And you know, it's got to know her and things like back to life

1045
00:53:49.019 --> 00:53:53.760
and episodes. with her famous catchphrase.

1046
00:53:56.880 --> 00:53:58.980
So she's wonderful.

1047
00:53:59.039 --> 00:54:02.579
But, I mean, the casting in that episode. is spectacular, the

1048
00:54:02.579 --> 00:54:03.059
lodger.

1049
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:04.139
We get Daisy Haggard.

1050
00:54:04.260 --> 00:54:06.719
We get James Corden, who then was sort of at the peak of his

1051
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:09.719
dramatic power. on British screens.

1052
00:54:09.780 --> 00:54:14.099
And I mean, can we just say how many great people have we had from

1053
00:54:14.099 --> 00:54:15.059
the history boys?

1054
00:54:15.059 --> 00:54:17.280
We had James Corden.

1055
00:54:17.340 --> 00:54:20.219
Of course, we're going to get Danny Pink in a couple of seasons

1056
00:54:20.219 --> 00:54:20.639
time.

1057
00:54:20.699 --> 00:54:23.400
Dominic Cooper and people like that who've just been amazing.

1058
00:54:23.460 --> 00:54:25.559
And Russell Toby, of course.

1059
00:54:25.619 --> 00:54:27.420
So that provided...

1060
00:54:27.420 --> 00:54:28.079
Sasha.

1061
00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:31.320
Well, how could I miss my boyfriend Sasha?

1062
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:34.559
We don't talk much about his career, yeah.

1063
00:54:34.619 --> 00:54:36.659
Too busy doing that.

1064
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:37.980
You just stare longingly.

1065
00:54:38.039 --> 00:54:39.000
That's correct.

1066
00:54:39.059 --> 00:54:43.440
But, I mean, that production unleashed an enormous amount of

1067
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:45.840
talent into British screens.

1068
00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:49.619
And I think James Corden was the perfect choice to play that role

1069
00:54:49.619 --> 00:54:50.940
in the lodger.

1070
00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:53.760
It wouldn't have been as charming with anyone else.

1071
00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:56.280
There's so many to pick from.

1072
00:54:56.340 --> 00:54:57.420
There really is.

1073
00:54:57.480 --> 00:55:01.139
I mean, I can't remember actors and actresses names, but if we go

1074
00:55:01.139 --> 00:55:06.000
with like Liz 10, or if we go with Nasrin Chowdhry, or if we go

1075
00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:11.099
with Vincent, you know, episode after episode has somebody in it

1076
00:55:11.099 --> 00:55:14.340
that is a name that is a standout that is a character.

1077
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:18.900
I think Tony Curran is amazing, as Vincent, and you had to really

1078
00:55:18.900 --> 00:55:21.780
get, as well as it's written, you had to get someone who could

1079
00:55:21.780 --> 00:55:25.920
just look like him and embody that character.

1080
00:55:25.980 --> 00:55:27.900
And I think he does an incredible job.

1081
00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:31.920
I will go back to Helen Macquarie again back in the vampires of

1082
00:55:31.920 --> 00:55:33.360
Venice because I think she is that good.

1083
00:55:33.420 --> 00:55:35.400
And serenely beautiful.

1084
00:55:35.460 --> 00:55:36.960
Oh magnificent.

1085
00:55:37.019 --> 00:55:42.659
I think it's really difficult to choose. a favourite this season.

1086
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:45.659
There are so many good guest actors.

1087
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:47.820
Helen McCrory is amazing.

1088
00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:52.619
Going back to watching this season, I was never a huge fan of

1089
00:55:52.619 --> 00:55:56.460
Vampires of Venice because, like you said earlier, Nathan is a

1090
00:55:56.460 --> 00:55:57.179
standard episode.

1091
00:55:57.239 --> 00:56:02.460
There's nothing really plot wise in the season that makes it that

1092
00:56:02.460 --> 00:56:03.900
important.

1093
00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:08.280
Oh, so I thought when I was watching it, but she is amazing.

1094
00:56:08.340 --> 00:56:10.260
She's a brilliant.

1095
00:56:10.320 --> 00:56:11.940
She was a brilliant actress.

1096
00:56:12.599 --> 00:56:16.860
Yeah, it's really, it's really difficult to choose someone not to

1097
00:56:16.860 --> 00:56:17.099
like.

1098
00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:19.860
That's because you're a complicated space-time event.

1099
00:56:21.900 --> 00:56:23.639
The dream lord.

1100
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:25.380
Toby...

1101
00:56:25.380 --> 00:56:25.920
Toby Jones.

1102
00:56:25.980 --> 00:56:28.739
Toby Jones, I think does a phenomenal job in that episode.

1103
00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:31.380
So let's do a dog, Mary avoid.

1104
00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:33.300
Strong Mary avoid.

1105
00:56:33.360 --> 00:56:34.139
Bracewell.

1106
00:56:34.199 --> 00:56:36.659
Father Octavian, the Dream Lord.

1107
00:56:36.780 --> 00:56:39.599
You'd have to avoid the Dream Lord, surely.

1108
00:56:39.659 --> 00:56:44.460
Yeah, particularly in that sort of 70s, you know, shirt open to

1109
00:56:44.460 --> 00:56:49.079
the waist look that he does. right. in his butcher's frock trying

1110
00:56:49.079 --> 00:56:52.559
trying to do Amy in her nurse's frock and not succeeding.

1111
00:56:52.619 --> 00:56:55.800
He's he is amazing, Todd, isn't he?

1112
00:56:55.860 --> 00:56:56.760
He really is something.

1113
00:56:56.820 --> 00:56:58.440
It's a great character too.

1114
00:56:58.559 --> 00:57:00.719
And I'm glad it doesn't go anywhere.

1115
00:57:00.780 --> 00:57:04.619
It's just a one off, a super weird kind of quirk in the doctor's

1116
00:57:04.619 --> 00:57:06.239
psychology or something.

1117
00:57:06.420 --> 00:57:08.159
For space reason.

1118
00:57:08.219 --> 00:57:09.539
Yeah, space reasons.

1119
00:57:09.599 --> 00:57:12.480
We don't have to go back and kind of find out what planet he's

1120
00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:13.440
from or anything like that.

1121
00:57:13.500 --> 00:57:15.059
He's really good.

1122
00:57:15.119 --> 00:57:17.519
I think you have to avoid the Dreamlord.

1123
00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:20.099
I'd snog Father Octavian?

1124
00:57:20.159 --> 00:57:21.780
Oh, yeah, I think that's the logical choice.

1125
00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:23.639
You want to see the best of him, don't you?

1126
00:57:23.699 --> 00:57:25.500
Yes, yes.

1127
00:57:25.559 --> 00:57:27.420
And so that leaves us with...

1128
00:57:27.420 --> 00:57:28.019
Bracewell.

1129
00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:31.320
Bracewell seems like a bit of an old romantic.

1130
00:57:31.380 --> 00:57:34.320
I think I could put up with that. nice little house Yeah

1131
00:57:34.320 --> 00:57:36.480
absolutely, you'd have competition with that woman he was always

1132
00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:36.900
talking about.

1133
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:38.519
Yeah, Adorabella.

1134
00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:42.059
Dorabella, where is that name from?

1135
00:57:42.179 --> 00:57:45.719
Sorry, I just have never heard of it before, and, you know, that's

1136
00:57:45.719 --> 00:57:46.079
my middle name.

1137
00:57:49.139 --> 00:57:50.820
Just stop it, Peter.

1138
00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:55.679
Wasn't that the name of, um, It's like a cow name, isn't it?

1139
00:57:56.400 --> 00:57:58.380
Like, where does it come from?

1140
00:57:58.500 --> 00:58:00.840
Like, I mean, we know a lot of eccentric British names.

1141
00:58:00.900 --> 00:58:04.199
No offence to anybody who's from Britain who makes...

1142
00:58:04.260 --> 00:58:05.639
Oh, he's called Torabella.

1143
00:58:05.699 --> 00:58:07.320
I've never heard of that.

1144
00:58:07.380 --> 00:58:10.739
Like, Esme, whatever it happens to me, adorable.

1145
00:58:10.739 --> 00:58:12.480
It reminds me of Doris from the Silurians.

1146
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:14.940
There's so many in my barn.

1147
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:18.599
I was going to say, Mrs. Watson name's kitchen.

1148
00:58:18.659 --> 00:58:19.139
What's her name?

1149
00:58:19.199 --> 00:58:20.639
Mrs. Farrell.

1150
00:58:20.699 --> 00:58:21.960
That Farrell.

1151
00:58:22.019 --> 00:58:23.039
Yeah.

1152
00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:27.719
It was actually Rodan's 1st name in the Invasion of Time.

1153
00:58:27.780 --> 00:58:29.400
Whatabella Road?

1154
00:58:29.460 --> 00:58:29.760
Yeah, yeah.

1155
00:58:29.820 --> 00:58:30.719
Not many people know.

1156
00:58:30.780 --> 00:58:31.739
Just draw for short.

1157
00:58:31.800 --> 00:58:33.539
Yeah, just me and Andrew Pixley know that one.

1158
00:58:33.599 --> 00:58:37.139
He was a very popular name on Gallifrey. was also Dorabella

1159
00:58:37.139 --> 00:58:37.800
Angen.

1160
00:58:40.860 --> 00:58:42.119
Oh, dear.

1161
00:58:42.179 --> 00:58:42.960
All right.

1162
00:58:43.019 --> 00:58:47.159
Let's head into Jenny Laird.

1163
00:58:47.219 --> 00:58:49.679
Oh, Jenny Lanner Ward.

1164
00:58:50.159 --> 00:58:55.380
It goes to Stephen Moffat for giving Chris Chibnell an important

1165
00:58:55.380 --> 00:58:57.539
two-part episode at the end of the season.

1166
00:58:57.599 --> 00:59:00.900
I will not be elaborating further on that at this time.

1167
00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:04.380
I think the puzzling creative choice has to be the obvious one

1168
00:59:04.380 --> 00:59:04.980
those Daleks.

1169
00:59:05.579 --> 00:59:08.280
But we secretly like them.

1170
00:59:08.340 --> 00:59:10.980
We secretly do, but there's a reason that we secretly like them

1171
00:59:10.980 --> 00:59:12.300
and don't openly like them.

1172
00:59:13.079 --> 00:59:16.500
I love Nathan and Peter, both of your choices.

1173
00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:17.760
I think they're great.

1174
00:59:17.820 --> 00:59:19.980
I can't come up with anything to supersede that.

1175
00:59:20.039 --> 00:59:22.199
I really can't, you know, I really can't.

1176
00:59:22.260 --> 00:59:23.579
James.

1177
00:59:23.880 --> 00:59:26.340
It has to be those Staleks.

1178
00:59:26.639 --> 00:59:31.019
They were so close in a lot of ways.

1179
00:59:31.079 --> 00:59:34.320
Like the idea of very far away in lots of other ways.

1180
00:59:34.380 --> 00:59:38.940
Yeah, yeah, they like, it was a great idea to redesign them. you

1181
00:59:38.940 --> 00:59:40.260
know, to freshen them up.

1182
00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:45.300
And I think the idea of making them pop art colours is not

1183
00:59:45.300 --> 00:59:46.619
necessarily a bad one.

1184
00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:54.480
It's the fiddling too much with the design of them, the humpback

1185
00:59:54.480 --> 00:59:57.119
the, you know, tiny, tiny heads.

1186
00:59:57.179 --> 01:00:01.199
The tiny heads and the big asses. right here.

1187
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:07.619
And you can tell from the moment that they like made the decision

1188
01:00:07.619 --> 01:00:11.760
to make certain design changes that they regretted it because they

1189
01:00:11.760 --> 01:00:15.719
spend the next, you know, 3 or 4 seasons, like every time they

1190
01:00:15.719 --> 01:00:18.659
come back, you know, shooting them instead of ways, repainting

1191
01:00:18.659 --> 01:00:18.840
them.

1192
01:00:18.900 --> 01:00:21.599
Um, multicolidelics is a great idea.

1193
01:00:21.659 --> 01:00:24.360
And it's such a cruel juxtaposition with the Ionsides in that

1194
01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:25.500
story, which look phenomenal.

1195
01:00:25.559 --> 01:00:26.519
Yeah, yeah.

1196
01:00:26.579 --> 01:00:28.980
And they basically just say, well, the iron sides are no more

1197
01:00:28.980 --> 01:00:31.739
which gets every fan offside, I think, you know?

1198
01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:34.860
So it's an important time now for Stog Mario, avoid.

1199
01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:37.980
The new Salurians, the new Dalek paradigm or Angel Bob.

1200
01:00:38.099 --> 01:00:40.920
Oh, Angel Bob.

1201
01:00:40.980 --> 01:00:46.139
Pre-getting his spine ripped out. post.

1202
01:00:48.300 --> 01:00:51.239
The only chance I stand, I think.

1203
01:00:51.239 --> 01:00:53.760
That jawline.

1204
01:00:53.820 --> 01:00:54.119
Wow.

1205
01:00:54.179 --> 01:00:56.820
I mean, look, you wouldn't...

1206
01:00:56.820 --> 01:00:57.539
You wouldn't remember it.

1207
01:00:58.380 --> 01:00:59.940
That's true.

1208
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:01.679
You just have to experience it again and again.

1209
01:01:03.059 --> 01:01:06.539
I have a big soft spot for the new Silurians.

1210
01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:07.739
I think that they're good.

1211
01:01:07.800 --> 01:01:10.500
I'd marry them Not Malakare though.

1212
01:01:10.559 --> 01:01:12.360
Yeah, he's a monster.

1213
01:01:12.659 --> 01:01:15.780
But we talked about this in the episodes.

1214
01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:21.780
I think that you can't have super rubber faced people and still

1215
01:01:21.780 --> 01:01:22.679
have that work.

1216
01:01:22.739 --> 01:01:24.119
You need to have an actors' performance.

1217
01:01:24.179 --> 01:01:26.460
So I think they're quite well judged.

1218
01:01:26.519 --> 01:01:32.460
And certainly the success of Madame Vastra kind of...

1219
01:01:32.519 --> 01:01:32.940
Yeah, yeah.

1220
01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:37.199
And if there is a slight problem this season and it's not a big

1221
01:01:37.199 --> 01:01:37.860
problem at all.

1222
01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:39.960
I think that the design sometimes misses.

1223
01:01:40.019 --> 01:01:43.079
I think that the new Daleks were misconceived.

1224
01:01:43.139 --> 01:01:46.739
They got wrong, the things were trussle absolutely got right when

1225
01:01:46.739 --> 01:01:47.940
he brought the Daleks back.

1226
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:52.320
I think the Silurians aren't entirely successful in their

1227
01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:55.260
prosthetics and the way that they look and why they are the

1228
01:01:55.260 --> 01:01:57.239
Silurians, if they're going to be so different.

1229
01:01:57.300 --> 01:01:59.579
And, you know, just on a smaller level, things like the Dalek

1230
01:01:59.579 --> 01:02:02.039
control room and victory of the Dalek. doesn't work.

1231
01:02:02.099 --> 01:02:05.639
And so there's a couple of noticeable lapses in design work, just

1232
01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:06.179
a couple.

1233
01:02:06.239 --> 01:02:09.539
So you're avoiding the new Dialect paradigm and you're marrying

1234
01:02:09.539 --> 01:02:10.260
angel Bob.

1235
01:02:10.320 --> 01:02:10.679
Is that correct?

1236
01:02:10.739 --> 01:02:14.460
Uh, I would snog and marry Angel Bob.

1237
01:02:14.519 --> 01:02:17.940
Thank you for clarifying that Then try and avoid him and die.

1238
01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:20.820
All right.

1239
01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:25.260
The Bonnie Langford, the startling discovery or moment of...

1240
01:02:25.260 --> 01:02:30.599
Oh, I think the Bonnie Langford Award should go to Karen Gillen.

1241
01:02:30.659 --> 01:02:34.739
She's an unknown actress, really, at that point.

1242
01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:40.320
And she has gone on to great success since.

1243
01:02:40.800 --> 01:02:43.380
But she's just revelation.

1244
01:02:44.039 --> 01:02:46.920
I think that Bonnie Langford goes to Matt Smith.

1245
01:02:46.980 --> 01:02:48.960
I'll be allowed to choose him.

1246
01:02:49.079 --> 01:02:50.460
Yeah, absolutely.

1247
01:02:50.519 --> 01:02:51.599
I'm choosing Matt Smith.

1248
01:02:51.659 --> 01:02:53.219
I think he is astonishing.

1249
01:02:53.340 --> 01:02:55.920
And immediately astonishing.

1250
01:02:55.980 --> 01:02:59.579
In fact, maybe not immediately, maybe he doesn't land that scene

1251
01:02:59.579 --> 01:03:02.460
at the end of End of Time part two.

1252
01:03:02.519 --> 01:03:04.619
You know, like he's not quite sure what he's doing.

1253
01:03:04.679 --> 01:03:06.960
Which has charms all the time.

1254
01:03:07.019 --> 01:03:07.619
Yes, yeah.

1255
01:03:07.619 --> 01:03:10.500
To be fair, he has half of the Tartars in his mouth at that

1256
01:03:10.500 --> 01:03:10.679
point.

1257
01:03:10.739 --> 01:03:11.760
Yeah, yeah, I know.

1258
01:03:11.820 --> 01:03:13.199
But it suddenly, suddenly...

1259
01:03:13.260 --> 01:03:15.000
We won't see that again until the door is away.

1260
01:03:18.059 --> 01:03:20.880
But he suddenly appears on the scene at the beginning of the 11th

1261
01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:22.619
hour and he's incredible.

1262
01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:26.519
And it's a kind of doctor that we hadn't had in the new series

1263
01:03:26.519 --> 01:03:29.340
because you had Russell saying, I don't want the doctor to be

1264
01:03:29.340 --> 01:03:30.000
eccentric.

1265
01:03:30.059 --> 01:03:31.800
He's got the time machine and all of that.

1266
01:03:31.860 --> 01:03:33.179
He's got enough going on.

1267
01:03:33.239 --> 01:03:35.159
He doesn't have to wear a silly costume.

1268
01:03:35.219 --> 01:03:36.780
He doesn't have to be a weirdo.

1269
01:03:36.840 --> 01:03:42.659
But it turns out making him eccentric and making him into the

1270
01:03:42.659 --> 01:03:46.380
eccentric old man that he was when the show started was a

1271
01:03:46.380 --> 01:03:48.900
brilliant idea and that Matt was the perfect person for it.

1272
01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:50.639
So mine goes to Matt Smith.

1273
01:03:50.699 --> 01:03:54.179
I mean, Matt is the obvious choice, but can I also say, Matt

1274
01:03:54.179 --> 01:03:56.219
Smith's doctor, Bonnie Langford's companion.

1275
01:03:56.280 --> 01:03:58.500
I would watch an entire series of that.

1276
01:03:58.860 --> 01:04:00.659
Say it 3 times.

1277
01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:04.980
My Bunny Langford will go to Adam Smith, the director of the Time

1278
01:04:04.980 --> 01:04:08.820
of Angels 2 parter and the 11th hour because he resets this series

1279
01:04:08.820 --> 01:04:13.559
and brings let the series in general and brings a confidence and a

1280
01:04:13.559 --> 01:04:18.360
style and a focus to production that is unprecedented, I think, in

1281
01:04:18.360 --> 01:04:18.900
Doctor Who.

1282
01:04:19.019 --> 01:04:21.300
I don't know if I really got one.

1283
01:04:21.360 --> 01:04:25.260
I think, you know, I think Karen's a startling discovery, for me

1284
01:04:25.260 --> 01:04:26.159
Matt is phenomenal.

1285
01:04:26.219 --> 01:04:28.679
I've always loved Arthur Darvel in the role.

1286
01:04:28.739 --> 01:04:32.280
It might even be the vampires of Venice, could be my Bonnie

1287
01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:36.179
Langford for an episode that I had really discounted and one that

1288
01:04:36.179 --> 01:04:40.139
just really surprised me so much and how pivotal you've mentioned

1289
01:04:40.139 --> 01:04:42.300
is to the whole season.

1290
01:04:42.360 --> 01:04:48.000
And I guess the other moment for me, originally was the starry

1291
01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:51.000
night when they were lying down in the fields and seeing the

1292
01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:53.099
heavens just come to life as a painting.

1293
01:04:53.099 --> 01:04:58.619
Every time I watch that episode this season, that moment is just

1294
01:04:58.619 --> 01:04:59.219
there for me.

1295
01:05:06.059 --> 01:05:10.079
All right, we're about to embark on series 6.

1296
01:05:10.139 --> 01:05:12.300
Where do you sit with that at the moment?

1297
01:05:12.360 --> 01:05:15.119
What are your thoughts or what do you hope to discover?

1298
01:05:15.300 --> 01:05:22.019
I think I'm going to be disappointed because I originally thought

1299
01:05:22.019 --> 01:05:27.420
series 6 was better than series 5 and I think I'm going to be

1300
01:05:27.420 --> 01:05:30.239
terribly, terribly underwhelmed by it.

1301
01:05:30.300 --> 01:05:34.739
I hope I'm not, but I think I will be.

1302
01:05:34.860 --> 01:05:40.320
I've watched ahead because I wanted to be more familiar with Matt

1303
01:05:40.320 --> 01:05:43.920
sort of generally before we started doing series 5.

1304
01:05:44.219 --> 01:05:50.760
And I think there are some good things in series 6, but I think

1305
01:05:50.760 --> 01:05:58.500
that I think that he tries to do a similar arc centred on Amy and

1306
01:05:58.500 --> 01:06:03.059
a particular kind of milestone that she reaches in her life.

1307
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:07.619
And I think that the treatment of it is weird and upsetting.

1308
01:06:07.679 --> 01:06:11.340
And I think that there's a significant problem in the production

1309
01:06:11.340 --> 01:06:13.619
that causes it to be split into 2 parts.

1310
01:06:13.679 --> 01:06:16.920
There's something going on in the background that actually starts

1311
01:06:16.920 --> 01:06:19.019
to affect the quality of what we see on screen.

1312
01:06:19.079 --> 01:06:24.059
But nevertheless, it's still like incredibly entertaining and I

1313
01:06:24.059 --> 01:06:27.480
think there are some amazing episodes in it and some really dismal

1314
01:06:27.480 --> 01:06:27.780
ones.

1315
01:06:27.840 --> 01:06:28.980
Peter?

1316
01:06:29.039 --> 01:06:33.239
I think I'll get my wish of seeing Moffat fail, and that will be

1317
01:06:33.239 --> 01:06:36.539
very interesting and nevertheless absorbing viewing.

1318
01:06:36.599 --> 01:06:41.880
I think also the series loses maybe a little bit of its reviewer

1319
01:06:41.880 --> 01:06:42.960
next series.

1320
01:06:43.019 --> 01:06:44.400
That may not be true.

1321
01:06:44.460 --> 01:06:46.079
I'm looking forward to rewatching it and seeing.

1322
01:06:46.139 --> 01:06:50.820
For me, what I'm looking forward to is seeing where Karen goes

1323
01:06:50.820 --> 01:06:57.059
with the role of Amy because I'm reevaluating her and I'm now

1324
01:06:57.059 --> 01:06:58.440
starting off in a much better place.

1325
01:06:58.559 --> 01:07:03.239
So that may affect what I actually think of a number of episodes.

1326
01:07:03.300 --> 01:07:08.280
But I say this quite openly, I consider series 6 to be the worst

1327
01:07:08.280 --> 01:07:12.239
Moffat season for me by far in all of the 6 that he did do.

1328
01:07:12.300 --> 01:07:13.440
Others won't agree.

1329
01:07:13.500 --> 01:07:16.079
Um, but it's my least favourite.

1330
01:07:16.139 --> 01:07:18.900
I'm going to see where, obviously, made up.

1331
01:07:18.960 --> 01:07:20.099
You'll end up loving it.

1332
01:07:21.239 --> 01:07:25.559
Listeners, I am looking at Nathan now with my desk stair look that

1333
01:07:25.559 --> 01:07:28.980
I give to children in class who won't shut up or say a smart

1334
01:07:28.980 --> 01:07:33.119
comment that just does not impress me very much, but hey, you know

1335
01:07:33.119 --> 01:07:33.480
me.

1336
01:07:33.539 --> 01:07:35.099
I'll end up loving.

1337
01:07:35.280 --> 01:07:36.780
Thank you.

1338
01:08:03.900 --> 01:08:07.260
Well, Davis, now that's all we had time for this week, and for

1339
01:08:07.260 --> 01:08:08.579
this series of Doctor Who.

1340
01:08:08.699 --> 01:08:12.599
We'll be back in a few weeks' time for Christmas in July with a

1341
01:08:12.599 --> 01:08:13.679
Christmas carol.

1342
01:08:13.739 --> 01:08:17.520
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1343
01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:20.220
and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook

1344
01:08:20.220 --> 01:08:25.020
at FT Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety

1345
01:08:23.340 --> 01:08:28.079
com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, and

1346
01:08:28.079 --> 01:08:29.220
Jody Intetera.

1347
01:08:29.340 --> 01:08:33.960
Until next time, whatever it is, whatever you're doing, let's make

1348
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:34.859
it a good one, eh?

1349
01:08:34.920 --> 01:08:36.119
We'll see you soon.

1350
01:08:36.180 --> 01:08:38.939
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1351
01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:39.720
Good night.

1352
01:08:39.779 --> 01:08:40.560
See you later.

1353
01:08:40.619 --> 01:08:41.039
Good night.

1354
01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:49.500
That was Flight 3 Entirety, starring Todby, will be Nathan

1355
01:08:49.500 --> 01:08:52.439
Bottomley, Peter Dorabella Griffiths and James Selwood.

1356
01:08:52.500 --> 01:08:54.600
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1357
01:08:54.659 --> 01:08:58.020
This episode of Brilliant Pole was recorded on the 6th of June

1358
01:08:58.020 --> 01:09:00.659
2020 and released on the 13th of June.

1359
01:09:03.720 --> 01:09:07.680
We're off in a few weeks, holiday now, so if you need us, we've

1360
01:09:07.680 --> 01:09:10.619
got our sunglasses, our sun lotion, and our water wings, and

1361
01:09:10.619 --> 01:09:13.619
you'll find us sitting in a fizzy puddle somewhere on the planet

1362
01:09:13.619 --> 01:09:14.279
Florama.

1363
01:09:14.340 --> 01:09:16.680
Oh, wait, should that red light be flashing?

1364
01:09:21.359 --> 01:09:23.699
I think your phone is buzzing.

1365
01:09:24.479 --> 01:09:27.239
It might be an idea to take it off the table.

1366
01:09:27.300 --> 01:09:28.439
Oh, okay.

1367
01:09:28.500 --> 01:09:29.220
Someone's is.

1368
01:09:29.279 --> 01:09:30.119
Might have been mine.

1369
01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:32.699
It could have been me.

1370
01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:34.920
No, that was 8 minutes ago.

1371
01:09:34.979 --> 01:09:37.500
Anyone else fancy sister Lamont?

1372
01:09:38.819 --> 01:09:40.800
Pre-Zigon.

1373
01:09:42.659 --> 01:09:44.460
Or post?

1374
01:09:44.460 --> 01:09:47.880
I loathe this abomination of a body.

1375
01:09:48.840 --> 01:09:52.199
He was the sucker, persistently.

1376
01:09:55.260 --> 01:09:56.939
I think we pay that one.

1377
01:09:57.000 --> 01:09:57.539
Come on.

1378
01:09:58.920 --> 01:10:02.939
A fetish, please, locking people in oxygen tanks.

1379
01:10:03.840 --> 01:10:05.880
What's the safe word?

1380
01:10:07.439 --> 01:10:09.060
Scaraza.

1381
01:10:13.979 --> 01:10:18.239
Well, on that note, James, Snog Murray avoid.