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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:31:51

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Hello, Delister, and welcome back to Flight of Entirety, the only

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Doctor Who podcast that was sure there were 6 bullets in the

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cylinder of this revolver just a minute ago.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Maxwell Well, it seems like we've spent 3 months running

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around Utah with helicopters flying overhead, so I guess it's time

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to settle down, get a grip, and resolve every single mystery that

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we introduced last week.

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It's one small step for a man and one giant leap in the history of

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arc-based storytelling.

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It's day of the moon.

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Do you know, I was born in between when last week's episode was

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set and when this week's episode is set.

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Oh wow.

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So the moon landing happened in a world that I existed in. and I

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was actually born between the broadcast of the 2nd last episode of

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Star Trek and the final episode Turnabout Intruder, which is one

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of the worst pieces of television, I think, ever to air in the

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history of the world.

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So there you go.

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But this isn't.

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No, this is really great.

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This is not, and rather charmingly, the moon landing actually

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happened while Spearhead from Space was being filmed.

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Ooh, on location.

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On the moon?

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On the moon. that's right Yeah, John Pertwin, his moon boot and

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his dinner suit.

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But the reason we know that is Carol and John has told us that she

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and John Pertwee bonded because in the pub everyone was staying at

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during filming for Spearheadrum space.

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John Pertwee was sitting in the TV room by himself, watching the

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moon landing, lamenting about how the rest of the casting crew

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were Philistines for not watching this moment in history.

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So Carrie John went and joined it.

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Which is a very doctorary thing to do, isn't it?

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Yeah, yeah.

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He took the part very seriously.

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But also it's the effing moon.

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Come on people.

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Everyone else is just drinking a piping.

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Like, yeah, yeah, we see it every night, whatever.

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Yeah.

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I think it does mean that John Pertwee and Carolyn John killed a

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whole bunch of silence in their time then after that.

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Oh, totally.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, Carol and John hit them with her pipe.

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That's it.

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Dear, I can imagine myself as a 4 month old, you know, like biting

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their ankles or something like that.

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So how do we think the cliffhanger resolves itself?

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Well, it's typical Stephen Moffatt, in that, the cliffhanger is

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not resolved to begin with.

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We start a completely different point in the story.

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Three months later, we've got Amy in the valley of the gods in

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Utah, and, you know, with lots of little markings on her and she

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gets shot by Canton.

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And then um, rivers in New York and America's occupied and so she

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decides to throw herself off the 50th floor of the whatever

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building that is.

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They never say what it is.

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And then Rory is in the Glen Canyon Dam, and so he's got so many

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markings and he also gets shot by Canton.

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And then he turns up at where is it?

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Is it Area 51 with the doctor with a lot of um, uh, with a beard.

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And, you know, thank goodness that he's the one doing the shooting

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because otherwise, you know, Amy and Rory would possibly be dead

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having to hold their breath for a very long time in those body

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bags.

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Okay, I'm so sorry.

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I love that that scene had so much tension and so much confusion

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and 0 no, Canton has betrayed them.

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But I still, from a narrative standpoint, don't understand why

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that all happened.

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And I get that he was playing a part and he was on their side all

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the time, but I don't understand why that needed to happen because

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Nixon is clearly not compromised by the silence.

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He's totally down with everything that the doctor and Amy and Rory

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and River want to do.

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So I was trying to figure out what was going on there that they

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needed to be so deceptive about.

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And the only thing I could think of was that it was the FBI that

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was compromised because like Nixon said that he didn't trust them

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but we also still never see a scene where the silence put the

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whammy on someone and be like, this is the subliminal message.

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So it was very unclear why that was happening, and I still don't

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really understand if the silence were involved in that at all.

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I mean, clearly they were to some degree, but, you know, it just

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doesn't make sense because, like, the person at the top, Nixon is

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you know, obviously not calling the shots here.

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So what's going on?

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I think it's what we said last week and it is just that is

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something that Moffatt doesn't want you to push too hard against

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because it is a really, really spectacular and upsetting scene.

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Um, and confusing is exactly right.

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But he doesn't let us stay confused for very long.

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I mean, by the time the opening credits come in, that's all

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resolved.

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So we aren't required to wait for a long time or hold that

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question in our heads for particularly long.

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And we also aren't allowed to be too upset for too long, I think.

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I think it does go back to the fact that, you know, it's cinematic

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we're reinforcing we're in America, we've got those locations, it

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all looks great.

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Even the whole, um, the doctor in the, in the cell, the way in

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which that whole cell builds itself and then, you know, they're up

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out of their body bags. river goes diving into the swimming pool

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you know, you know, there's a bit of a fun there.

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It's all to, you know, to get us back into the story.

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Yes, there's been a time jump with obvious plot points happening

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which we haven't filled in yet, and now we're going to fill them

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in.

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Yeah.

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So our flashback comes in in that section.

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And what I find interesting is Moffat has said that he loves

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cliffhangers, that cliffhanger resolutions are very often sort of

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prosaic and dull. you know, in the 80s we criticised.

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You know, the cliffhanger's great.

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The doctor's forced to his knees and someone raised an axe above

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his head and what's the resolution?

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Another person wanders in and says, no, stop.

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You know, the Clitanger resolution is often less interesting.

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So Moffatt, and he said this recently in an interview with

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Thumbjock 2 magazine about writing, is the reason there's so many

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time jumps in his work, is he's like, just cut to the interesting

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bits and make the dull bit a 2 line explanation of what's happened

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in the meantime.

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He's like, this isn't theatre.

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You can do that.

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And that's what he does here.

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And then, yep, in the flashback, he gives us the prosaic

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cliffhanger explanation of Amy Shot went a bit wide and everyone

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ran back to the TARDIS.

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It's like, Now, if that had happened in the 1st scene of the

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episode, you go, oh, I'm glad they're all safe, but instead you

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get this dynamic opening, which, as you say, Max, when you sort of

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scrutinised the narrative is like, uh, really?

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Okay.

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But it is visually interesting.

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And again, friend of the podcast, Matt H, when I was watching it

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with him, he's like, I love that Rory has clearly had the worst

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time of it because he is the most capable person aboard the TARD.

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So he's seen the most amount of silence.

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He is the most dishevelled and he is the last to get caught.

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That's so funny that you mentioned the wide shot because if you

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actually look at the astronaut suit later on, and maybe this was

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still there in the 1st episode, you'll see the book where the

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bullet hit the suit, but didn't penetrate it because it has the

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crack around it.

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So I think she actually did hit the shell of the suit.

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Oh, yeah, yeah.

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But then she doesn't have the visor up, does she?

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No, she has the helmet on.

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Okay, whatever.

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I'm not gonna think about it too much.

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So she got the inner visor.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think that what happens is the child is so small that its head

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is low in the visor and so the bit that she hits would have gone

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through an adult's head, but it misses because it's a child and

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the child is very small in this sort of massively oversized suit.

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I also just had a disturbing realisation that if the whole idea is

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that the silence have compromised the FBI, but Nixon is the free

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agent here.

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That means we're on Nixon's side against the FBI, with how gross

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of a thought is that?

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compared to real events because now we're siding with Nick's son

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being like, oh, no, he was totally valid.

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See, there were aliens.

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Oh, Chris.

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This episode is much, much less Lydia than the last one.

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So the last episode, despite the sort of weird time travel

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shenanigans we have with the 2 doctors, really just sort of goes

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from, you know, the picnic to the cafe to the TARDIS, to the Oval

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Office, to the warehouse.

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Whereas this has a few things going on and it absolutely goes

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backwards and forwards kind of all the time.

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And so we leave the opening credits and we're going into, is it

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Greystark Hall?

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Grey Star Orphanage?

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Is that right?

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And again, I think that that's foregrounded because that's a

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massively more interesting and atmospheric moment in the story

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than what we flash back to, which is us standing in the TARDIS

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telling everyone what we learned last week and what the nano

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recorders do.

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You know, what's so interesting about that?

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See, it is that, 1st of all, there's no building in America called

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Grey Star Hall.

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It's entirely too British.

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Especially in Florida.

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Weird.

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Second.

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I remember on my 2nd watch.

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I forgetting that character, the creepy caretakers, that like

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weird kind of moonlight and magnolia is like southern drawl he

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has.

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I forgot that what his name was.

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And when the door opened, I was like, oh, it's like a Rainsford

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character from Dracula.

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And he's like, my name's Rainfrew.

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I'm like, oh, I see what you're doing there, Moffin.

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Very well done.

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It just reminds me of Angels episode. like you've got a creepy

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house with, you know, darkness and writing on the wall.

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He's sort of ripping off a bit of his own writing in that aspect

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um, And then that's into come with, you know, the whole um, leto

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recorder stuff explanation that's going to be pivotal.

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And of course, Amy's not told Rory that she's pregnant.

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The nano recorders, I think, are brilliant.

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I think that they are really interesting.

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And Moffat has long had an obsession with telephones, including

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the pivotal kind of series 2 cliffhanger of press gang, which is

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just 2 characters staring at a telephone to see what's going to

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happen.

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And a lot of his stuff is around, you know, phone messages and

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stuff like that.

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I met him.

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Todd, you remember, at that day event where we met Stephen Moffat

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and I actually asked him how you're doing a telephone joke in a

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World War 2 story, and of course, he has the TARDIS telephone ring

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and someone call on that.

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We had the telephone calls last week.

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It's all mysterious telephone calls from a little girl to the

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president.

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So these, this is like a phone answering machine.

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You know, and it even has the little LED light flashing to show

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you that you've got a message.

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And I think it is incredibly effective.

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And we see a trick here, that is a feature of those scenes in the

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orphanage, which is that we see things from the character's point

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of view.

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So when they see the silence and then forget them, we don't see

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that, what we see is, you know, the scene on either side of that

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that seems uninterrupted, so suddenly the character will have an

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extra mark on their face, or suddenly the character's thing will

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be flashing because they've encountered the silence, but we're not

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allowed to see it.

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And it's a similar trick to what is done with the weeping angels

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which is not only do the characters never see the move, but we

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count as an observer.

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So we don't see them move either.

247
00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:08.820
And so it's a sort of standard directorial trick with the silence

248
00:13:08.820 --> 00:13:13.139
which I think is incredibly effective because we get to feel what

249
00:13:13.139 --> 00:13:17.279
it's like to not know that we've encountered them.

250
00:13:17.340 --> 00:13:19.200
I think it's brilliant.

251
00:13:19.259 --> 00:13:19.919
I just love that.

252
00:13:19.980 --> 00:13:22.440
It's so creepy and it sort of just shocks you knowing that it's

253
00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:23.039
just happened.

254
00:13:23.100 --> 00:13:26.460
And then, you know, even in the TARDIS, with the creature in the

255
00:13:26.460 --> 00:13:27.299
TARDIS. like you know?

256
00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:28.440
Oh my god.

257
00:13:28.500 --> 00:13:29.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

258
00:13:29.820 --> 00:13:33.360
I had kind of forgotten that scene to some degree, even though I

259
00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:34.740
actually watched it earlier this year.

260
00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:37.980
So, you know, what sort of year it's been.

261
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:43.320
The fact that Canton's nano recording is flashing when he's in the

262
00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:43.980
TARDIS.

263
00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:46.259
And you think, wait, there's a silence in here?

264
00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:47.159
Like, what's happening?

265
00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:49.080
And Heath just thinks it's a mistake.

266
00:13:49.139 --> 00:13:52.440
Like he just says, no, no, no, like I didn't receive a message.

267
00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:53.639
And of course, he did.

268
00:13:53.700 --> 00:13:54.720
It's so well done.

269
00:13:54.779 --> 00:13:58.620
It sets that directorial trick up for us as well.

270
00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:02.340
It gives us a little training wheels version of it where it's

271
00:14:02.340 --> 00:14:06.480
explained and so then he can go on to do it for all of those

272
00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:08.700
scenes in the orphanage.

273
00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:11.519
I think my challenge to my disbelief.

274
00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:16.620
And all of this was the fact that we, um, as an audience had to

275
00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:22.440
accept the fact that we could get a clear 40 K holographic image

276
00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:30.059
from a 2011 flip phone. you just wouldn't believe the machine

277
00:14:30.059 --> 00:14:32.220
learning chip at the time. has.

278
00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:33.240
It's really something.

279
00:14:34.379 --> 00:14:37.440
You're talking about the flashing hand. like, you know, with Amy

280
00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:40.980
investigating, you know, with all the stuff on her face and when

281
00:14:40.980 --> 00:14:45.059
she looks up at that pod of the silence on the roof, it's just

282
00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:49.980
jump scanning, just creepy and I love the visuals.

283
00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:54.360
It's got a real time in the Rani kind of feel to it, doesn't it?

284
00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:58.320
Well, what?

285
00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:00.360
Todd is grimacing.

286
00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:04.679
Well, you know, the tetraps hanging through the ceiling in time of

287
00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:08.100
the rowdy, although, you know, the chittering that they do and the

288
00:15:08.100 --> 00:15:11.460
fact that they're all like bunched up together against one another

289
00:15:11.460 --> 00:15:15.179
like we observed last week, like it makes them really, it makes

290
00:15:15.179 --> 00:15:19.860
them really animalistic and kind of massively, massively off

291
00:15:18.779 --> 00:15:19.860
putting.

292
00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:22.860
I think those scenes are as scary as anything that he's ever

293
00:15:22.860 --> 00:15:23.100
done.

294
00:15:24.419 --> 00:15:30.299
Much like time in the Rani, there was a physical cluster maquette

295
00:15:30.299 --> 00:15:34.980
model of the silence for a visual reference for Karen Gillan to

296
00:15:34.980 --> 00:15:38.279
look up at and ended up at the Doctor Who exhibition in London.

297
00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:42.720
And when I was teaching in the UK, I took a group of students to

298
00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:46.200
the Doctor Who exhibition and rather than pay for a guided tour

299
00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:49.799
you know, I just used me because I can identify everything there.

300
00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:55.559
So when we got to that silence hang from the roof, I turned around

301
00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:59.399
and I said, now, you guys remember these ones, they're the silence

302
00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:03.419
they're from last year's season, and the special thing about those

303
00:16:03.419 --> 00:16:05.399
is when you look away, you can't remember them.

304
00:16:05.460 --> 00:16:06.299
And I turn back to the group.

305
00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:09.899
And then I turn back to the model and I said, now, these are the

306
00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:12.419
silence from last year's season and the thing about them.

307
00:16:12.779 --> 00:16:14.759
And how did that go down?

308
00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:17.940
They actually loved it.

309
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:18.840
They actually loved it.

310
00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:23.580
So one of the interesting things about it is that that seeing the

311
00:16:23.580 --> 00:16:27.419
silence and then turning away from them and saying the thing that

312
00:16:27.419 --> 00:16:31.679
you were saying before, like the actual forgetting the science is

313
00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:36.360
even though it's horrifying sometimes, it's completely played for

314
00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:38.460
laughs at other times, I think.

315
00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:39.840
That's really terribly clever.

316
00:16:39.899 --> 00:16:41.879
With all this spookiness.

317
00:16:41.940 --> 00:16:46.139
We intercut with the lecture theatre, which reminds me of the

318
00:16:46.139 --> 00:16:50.460
Castle Theatre, actually, um, from the 1960s, um, at City

319
00:16:50.460 --> 00:16:55.799
University, with river and Rory, the background, and Nixon, and I

320
00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:57.779
love Rivers look, and Rory's look.

321
00:16:57.840 --> 00:16:59.580
Oh, the Mad Men is FedEx.

322
00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:01.200
The fashion design is fantastic.

323
00:17:01.259 --> 00:17:01.919
Oh, yes.

324
00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:06.180
What about the scene leading up to that where Amy rings the doctor

325
00:17:06.180 --> 00:17:10.079
and the doctor takes the call and then we discover that he's in

326
00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:14.400
the, you know, command module of the Apollo 11, which is just so

327
00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:15.059
fantastic.

328
00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:18.960
And even though there's just a bit leftover thing, which is such a

329
00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:19.980
sort of dad joke.

330
00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:23.819
I mean, it's such a, you know, it's the observation that everyone

331
00:17:23.819 --> 00:17:28.200
makes when they're assembling IKEA furniture or repairing Bessie.

332
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:30.119
You know, there's always one bit left over.

333
00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:33.180
It's a little bit of a limp joke, but it works so incredibly

334
00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:33.480
well.

335
00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:39.420
And that amazing CG pullout shot where we just move out away from

336
00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:42.839
the rocket and we see Kennedy Space Centre.

337
00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:44.759
It's so incredibly great.

338
00:17:44.819 --> 00:17:46.019
That's so brilliant.

339
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:50.400
And then Matt, in the lecture theatre, trying to bite through the

340
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:51.539
handcuffs.

341
00:17:51.660 --> 00:17:52.440
Why is he doing that?

342
00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:10.440
This might be a good time to talk about how this episode was

343
00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:12.720
originally gonna pay off the Easter Island gag.

344
00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:13.799
Yes.

345
00:18:13.859 --> 00:18:18.359
I've been wondering about that So the doctor was going to keep the

346
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:20.759
beard for much longer into the episode.

347
00:18:20.819 --> 00:18:24.599
So in the previously mentioned scene where he's explaining the

348
00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:27.599
nano recorder, after he finished his explanation, River was going

349
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:32.160
to pull out a bowl of hot water and a straight razor and a towel

350
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:35.279
and say, and now, darling, and he's like, no, I'm keeping a

351
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:35.519
beard.

352
00:18:35.579 --> 00:18:36.240
Beards are cool.

353
00:18:36.299 --> 00:18:39.599
So he was going to have the beard when he was up in the lunar

354
00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:42.660
module and then when he's trying to bite through the handcuffs and

355
00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:46.380
then when he gets back into the Tartars, River was not going to

356
00:18:46.380 --> 00:18:51.779
uncuff him in order to then shave his beard off. a little bit

357
00:18:51.779 --> 00:18:52.140
kinky.

358
00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:56.160
And then like, and then later on when he was talking to Nixon, he

359
00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:58.680
was going to be constantly distracted by the fact that she's done

360
00:18:58.680 --> 00:18:59.160
it wrong.

361
00:18:59.220 --> 00:19:00.539
My chin looks enormous.

362
00:19:03.180 --> 00:19:07.740
I was actually going to herald the return of the BBC press on

363
00:19:07.740 --> 00:19:11.160
Beard because it is really bad.

364
00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:12.720
Yes, it is.

365
00:19:12.779 --> 00:19:16.140
I think I think later on for the wedding of River song, he is

366
00:19:16.140 --> 00:19:20.940
allowed to grow his own, but this is very obviously a BBC press on

367
00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:23.220
state of decay beard.

368
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:24.240
Yes.

369
00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:26.460
So 18 minutes in.

370
00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:31.500
A woman with an eye patch opens a sliding window and says she's

371
00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:32.039
just dreaming.

372
00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:35.279
So another mystery is set up.

373
00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:37.319
Yes.

374
00:19:37.380 --> 00:19:39.660
Is she credited in this episode?

375
00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:43.619
So this is eye patch lady whose name we will discover a bit

376
00:19:43.619 --> 00:19:43.920
later?

377
00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:48.119
Yeah, she is just credited as eye patch lady.

378
00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:49.079
Yeah.

379
00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:49.680
Yeah.

380
00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:52.319
And that will obviously pay off later.

381
00:19:52.380 --> 00:19:55.440
And I think we're going to be reminded of it throughout the 1st

382
00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:56.279
half of the season.

383
00:19:56.339 --> 00:19:58.740
It does happen again next week, I think.

384
00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:03.299
Yeah, and look, Amy's investigating a child's room and we see

385
00:20:03.299 --> 00:20:07.680
pictures of, ultimately see a picture of Amy with the baby and um

386
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:10.079
and an astronaut enters from behind.

387
00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:16.200
I think this is utterly terrifying, this scene, like absolutely

388
00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:18.000
incredibly frightening.

389
00:20:18.059 --> 00:20:22.680
And again, it's one of those moments where I think Karen's acting

390
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:25.259
is slightly too good for the program.

391
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:31.019
Because, no, the reason that I say that, I think we probably say

392
00:20:31.019 --> 00:20:34.259
this about Caves of Andrazani, one of the reasons that what

393
00:20:34.259 --> 00:20:38.940
happens to Perry in Caves of Andrazani is so upsetting is because

394
00:20:38.940 --> 00:20:42.299
Nicola is doing too good a job.

395
00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:46.740
She's not doing kind of light entertainment scared acting.

396
00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:48.839
She's doing proper drama scared acting.

397
00:20:48.900 --> 00:20:50.640
And I think that's happening here.

398
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:53.819
And it certainly happened last week when the doctor was shot.

399
00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:58.079
But she is so convincingly terrified in this that she really

400
00:20:58.079 --> 00:20:59.579
really properly sells it.

401
00:20:59.579 --> 00:21:03.000
And it was a fairly terrifying scene already, I think.

402
00:21:03.299 --> 00:21:08.460
It's so much like lost in that kind of just Moffatt is hitting us

403
00:21:08.460 --> 00:21:11.759
again and again with just weird turns, weird questions.

404
00:21:11.819 --> 00:21:13.380
We're just WTF moments.

405
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:16.440
Like, when she picks up the picture of her holding the baby, you're

406
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:17.880
just like, what is going on?

407
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:21.539
And then, of course, eye patch lady.

408
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:27.119
Yeah, so that means at this point we know that the little girl is

409
00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:28.619
the child that she's pregnant with.

410
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:32.759
Um, and she says she's not pregnant.

411
00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:37.019
Has she already told the doctor that she's not pregnant anymore?

412
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:39.299
Yeah, she's like, oh, it was a mistake.

413
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:43.500
We must know that because it's 3 months, you know, and she's still

414
00:21:43.500 --> 00:21:46.200
running around adventuring and stuff rather than taking it

415
00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:46.920
slightly easy.

416
00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:51.180
I don't know, but um, so something odd is going on there.

417
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:54.900
And I wonder whether it's a sort of moffity cheat to get the

418
00:21:54.900 --> 00:21:59.940
pregnancy into episode one because, you know, we needed to be

419
00:21:59.940 --> 00:22:04.079
pregnant going on and we'll find out at the end of the episode

420
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.079
that is a sort of shrading as pregnancy.

421
00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:13.920
But it is like absolutely confusing and terrifying, I think.

422
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:20.700
And the thing for me is on 1st viewing, I definitely recall that

423
00:22:20.700 --> 00:22:23.579
when she screams and the scene ends.

424
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:26.640
I thought, well, and you know, then when we got to later on in the

425
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:28.799
season, I'm like, 0 my God, that's the moment she's abducted, but

426
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:32.339
it can't be because she's already seen Madame Cavarian open the

427
00:22:32.339 --> 00:22:32.759
hatch.

428
00:22:32.819 --> 00:22:36.180
And this is another example, I think, of Stephen Moffatt wanting

429
00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:37.740
the audience to make up their own mind.

430
00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:43.319
There is no definitive moment of when she's taken because the next

431
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:47.099
possible, obvious moment you think of is, oh, you know, river

432
00:22:47.099 --> 00:22:52.619
discovers those burn marks outside Amy's house in the Pandora

433
00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:56.099
opens, but it can't be then because we also discovered that Amy

434
00:22:56.099 --> 00:23:00.660
the real Amy had to be aboard the TARDIS between the Big Bang and

435
00:23:00.660 --> 00:23:01.500
a Christmas carol.

436
00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:04.799
I think it's the 3 month interval where they're on the run that

437
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:05.220
they took her.

438
00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:05.880
Fair enough.

439
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:06.660
Yeah that makes sense.

440
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:10.500
I think it does make sense because she's on a planet infested by

441
00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:10.859
silence.

442
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:14.940
And so you have to think that they have abducted her and taken her

443
00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:16.559
to Madame Cavarian.

444
00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:20.819
But at no point is that even addressed, is it?

445
00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:24.420
Like, I suppose it's not super important when it happened.

446
00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:26.460
It just happened.

447
00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:32.279
And it puts me in mind of the Doctor magazine comic ground zero

448
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:35.160
which friends of the podcast, Josh Snares, has just done a

449
00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:38.339
fantastic motion comic of on YouTube.

450
00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:41.759
Because in the lead up to that, there were these stories with past

451
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:45.660
doctors where at some point in the story, a companion would be

452
00:23:45.660 --> 00:23:48.000
taken, but then returned at the end and you didn't know what that

453
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:48.539
was about.

454
00:23:48.539 --> 00:23:51.240
And it turned out they were all in this big arc story at the end.

455
00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:56.460
And yeah, it sort of reminded me a bit of that.

456
00:23:56.519 --> 00:24:00.839
But yeah, here, you know, you see her get taken and locked up in

457
00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:01.859
the silence ship.

458
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:05.579
But in a way, it sort of, it sort of wrongfoots us for when we

459
00:24:05.579 --> 00:24:06.720
find out later in the season.

460
00:24:06.779 --> 00:24:07.500
Oh, no, no, no.

461
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:08.460
She was taken ages ago.

462
00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:10.859
It's the usual Moffat thing of, no, I already told you this

463
00:24:10.859 --> 00:24:11.160
happened.

464
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:13.500
Yeah, yeah.

465
00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:18.119
I think it's very disturbing when you actually actually find Amy's

466
00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:20.519
recording device that's out of her.

467
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:23.339
Like, how do you get that out?

468
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:26.640
You know, and Amy's crying on the other end and wonderful moment

469
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:30.900
with Arthur, you know, and Rory, so resolute that, you know, um

470
00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:32.759
that Amy knows that he's coming for her.

471
00:24:32.819 --> 00:24:35.039
I think all of that is just beautiful.

472
00:24:35.339 --> 00:24:39.720
Although it's so horribly undercut almost immediately when it's

473
00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:42.059
clear that she's calling for the doctor.

474
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:47.640
Um, and like Rory tries to say face a bit by saying, I'm going to

475
00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:51.900
lead the doctor, you know, I'm going to lead you to her, but he is

476
00:24:51.900 --> 00:24:54.480
kind of embarrassed, I think, and humiliated by that.

477
00:24:54.539 --> 00:24:59.339
I actually find the weird resurrection of the love triangle

478
00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:03.720
between the doctor, Amy and Rory, a bit off putting here.

479
00:25:03.779 --> 00:25:05.940
I hated it so much in this.

480
00:25:08.099 --> 00:25:15.420
We said last year that from Amy's choice onwards in series five.

481
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:22.920
There's no question at all that Amy loves Rory and cares for him

482
00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:25.200
more than she cares about the doctor.

483
00:25:25.259 --> 00:25:28.259
Like, I think that that's made absolutely clear.

484
00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:31.799
And all of the sort of attempts to have sex with him at the end of

485
00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:35.099
Time of Angels, you know, is a blip.

486
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:40.740
All of that is thrown away because their love is made absolutely

487
00:25:40.740 --> 00:25:41.579
definite.

488
00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:45.119
And I think there's a really, really kind of heartbreaking

489
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:52.380
juxtaposition of Amy calling for the doctor and Rory hearing her

490
00:25:52.380 --> 00:25:58.019
speak and assuming that she's referring to the doctor and the

491
00:25:58.019 --> 00:26:05.160
doctor sitting with Rory and asking him about his time as the lone

492
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:13.740
centurion, where the incredible loyalty of Rory is emphas at a

493
00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:18.299
time where we can't tell whether Amy feels the same way.

494
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:24.900
And I mean, it is resolved by kind of Rory being told not to be so

495
00:26:24.900 --> 00:26:29.519
silly, you know, and she sort of earned that, I think.

496
00:26:29.579 --> 00:26:31.380
I think she has sort of earned that.

497
00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:34.740
But it does seem like a bit of a cheat.

498
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:37.920
I'm not quite sure why why we're doing that.

499
00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:41.099
It's a beautiful conversation between the doctor and Rory. written

500
00:26:41.099 --> 00:26:42.299
that down here in my notes.

501
00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:46.380
But I mean, even later in the episode where again, Roy says, I

502
00:26:46.380 --> 00:26:49.140
wasn't sure who you were talking about and they kiss.

503
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:54.119
I think there are some beats in this, again with the Rory, Amy

504
00:26:54.119 --> 00:26:57.660
doctor relationship, Nathan, which I agree with you, which don't

505
00:26:57.660 --> 00:26:58.259
sit well with me.

506
00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:00.839
Hmm, I thought we were over it.

507
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:05.220
It's just Amy being like, you stupid face, and like, how could you

508
00:27:05.220 --> 00:27:05.579
think that?

509
00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:11.400
Amy, to me, is just like gaslight, girl boss ginger.

510
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:16.319
She's so like toxic sometimes.

511
00:27:16.380 --> 00:27:18.660
And I get that she has like a really screwed up childhood and

512
00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:19.740
whatever.

513
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:22.980
But like, I'm on her side until she does something so, like, rude.

514
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:25.440
And I'm like, Amy, slow your roll.

515
00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:28.019
Like, stop like whipping this man.

516
00:27:28.140 --> 00:27:32.160
See, I think that Stephen Moffatt likes being treated like that by

517
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:34.559
women and that's why...

518
00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:36.180
He's a dirty little piggy.

519
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:36.839
Yeah, yeah.

520
00:27:36.900 --> 00:27:42.059
And to be fair, both the doctor and Rory do have stupid faces.

521
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:43.920
So there is that too.

522
00:27:43.980 --> 00:27:45.960
It's a built in ambiguity.

523
00:27:46.019 --> 00:27:48.119
They're what I like to call a weird hob.

524
00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:49.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

525
00:27:49.859 --> 00:27:50.099
Yeah.

526
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:53.940
But even at the end, you know, when the doctor's talking to Amy

527
00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:58.259
about, you know, why shouldn't tell Rory she was pregnant and he's

528
00:27:58.259 --> 00:28:00.839
got the listening device, you know, to listen to that and then

529
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:01.680
they sort of resolve it.

530
00:28:01.740 --> 00:28:06.000
It's, I just kind of go, to be needed?

531
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:12.180
I think that's made okay, though, by the fact that Amy makes it

532
00:28:12.180 --> 00:28:15.660
clear that she knew all along that Rory was listening, that she

533
00:28:15.660 --> 00:28:17.940
wasn't speaking behind his back at all.

534
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:21.779
She knew that he was listening in and then she calls him in to say

535
00:28:21.779 --> 00:28:24.480
all right, come on, I'm going to take that off you if you're going

536
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:25.500
to use it to spy on me.

537
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:30.240
So it does seem much worse than it actually ends up being, I

538
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:30.480
think.

539
00:28:30.539 --> 00:28:34.980
Yeah, I find it a cheap joke and I kind of think, you know, like

540
00:28:34.980 --> 00:28:36.359
to be really needed.

541
00:28:36.420 --> 00:28:39.359
Like, just adds to that little bit in this episode where I think

542
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:42.000
personally, I don't like this episode as much as last week.

543
00:28:42.059 --> 00:28:45.180
Like if last week I gave a 9 out of 10 here, I think it's an 8 and

544
00:28:45.180 --> 00:28:48.299
there's just some little things in here that, and even with the

545
00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:50.880
resolution of the season and what's to come, retrospectively, I

546
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:53.819
look back on it and think it's, the shine takes off just a little

547
00:28:53.819 --> 00:28:54.779
for me anyway.

548
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:56.759
Yeah, yeah.

549
00:28:56.819 --> 00:28:57.299
It's fair.

550
00:28:57.420 --> 00:29:00.900
As we're talking about relationships, I'd also like to mention

551
00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:03.960
something from the end, which is the reveal that the reason that

552
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:09.660
Canton left or was kicked out of the FBI is that he is in a

553
00:29:09.660 --> 00:29:11.940
relationship with a man whom he wants to marry.

554
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:17.940
And I think this highlights that Stephen Moffat does at this stage

555
00:29:17.940 --> 00:29:22.619
have a little bit of a problem in writing for queer characters.

556
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:26.220
And if we look back at coupling, which was, you know, his other

557
00:29:26.220 --> 00:29:27.359
big success before this.

558
00:29:27.420 --> 00:29:29.519
Like, I know he had press gang and joking apart, which were very

559
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:31.980
popular, coupling is what sort of catapulted him into the

560
00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:32.519
spotlight.

561
00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:37.559
There's one explicitly gay character throughout the whole thing.

562
00:29:37.619 --> 00:29:43.079
And Stephen Moffat, 1st of all, has Jane constantly trying to

563
00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:47.279
seduce him as a comedy thing, but also he's like, how can I make a

564
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:48.359
gay character interesting?

565
00:29:48.420 --> 00:29:50.759
I'll make him a huge fan of Margaret Thatcher.

566
00:29:51.539 --> 00:29:53.339
Yeah, yeah.

567
00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:53.880
What?

568
00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:54.660
Yeah, yeah.

569
00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:56.460
How is that a choice?

570
00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:00.359
And you know, also, how do I define him as gay?

571
00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:04.259
I'll have him say, when I was born, I turned around and said, don't

572
00:30:04.259 --> 00:30:07.079
turn me back in that big scary cave, you know?

573
00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:11.220
And it's just, it's straight writers writing for gay characters

574
00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:13.200
sort of cheat book.

575
00:30:13.259 --> 00:30:19.440
And here, um, obviously, we can't rewrite history to have same-sex

576
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:21.359
marriage be legal in 1969.

577
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:27.000
But the fact that it is a Canton sexuality is a punchline.

578
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:32.880
It still makes me chuckle in a dark way, but I'm kind of like one

579
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:36.180
of the things that Moffat was criticised for in series 5 is it's

580
00:30:36.180 --> 00:30:37.799
like there's no queer rep in the show.

581
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:40.380
And Moffatt even spoke about that in an interview.

582
00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:41.220
He was like, you know what?

583
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:44.160
It didn't occur to me and that is a problem and I'm going to

584
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:44.700
address it.

585
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:50.220
And the characters here dresses it with in this season. 1st of all

586
00:30:50.220 --> 00:30:51.660
there's Canton.

587
00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:56.160
And 2nd of all, there's the couple in, um, a good man goes to

588
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:56.640
war.

589
00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:01.559
And also Jenny and Vastra and how their relationship is sort of

590
00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:02.460
treated.

591
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:04.380
It kind of like, oh, Stephen, you're trying.

592
00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:06.779
Yeah, I can see that you're trying.

593
00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:10.559
Although the line, this is my, this is my lizard wife from the

594
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:11.160
dawn of time.

595
00:31:11.220 --> 00:31:12.119
It was pretty great.

596
00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:13.380
Yes, that is a great life.

597
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:16.140
Yeah, Jenny and Bastor's relationship gets better as it goes along

598
00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:16.559
absolutely.

599
00:31:16.980 --> 00:31:21.059
I have to say though, that he is genuinely trying.

600
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:22.079
I do think he's trying.

601
00:31:22.140 --> 00:31:26.160
And I do think that making a character that is integral to the

602
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:32.700
plot, who gets to be part of the main team, and who is really good

603
00:31:32.700 --> 00:31:36.000
and really competent and terribly likably played by Mark Shepard

604
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:38.460
and then revealing that he's gay at the end.

605
00:31:38.579 --> 00:31:41.940
You know, like, I think there's something to be said for that.

606
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:43.019
That's okay.

607
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:49.200
And I do think it gives like the punchline, which is Nixon pulls a

608
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:52.500
face because he's gay.

609
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:54.779
And remember, Nixon is a horrible person.

610
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:59.640
And he's got all of those prosthetics and he does pull this sort

611
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:04.559
of hilarious Google-eyed, rubber face kind of eye-rolling thing at

612
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:05.099
the very end.

613
00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:07.680
I also like tend to think that's funny.

614
00:32:07.740 --> 00:32:11.880
I actually think that we overestimate how good Doctor Who is at

615
00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:13.680
queer representation generally.

616
00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:19.079
And even in the RTD era, there isn't all that much of it. everyone

617
00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:22.200
assumes there is, but there actually isn't really.

618
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:26.579
Yeah, yeah, it's got a gay sensibility.

619
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:29.460
It's got an absolute gay sensibility for sure.

620
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:34.019
And so I've, you know, I think we feel included in that for that

621
00:32:34.019 --> 00:32:38.039
very reason, you know, in a real way it's made for us on all sorts

622
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:38.700
of levels.

623
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:42.359
But the explicit queer representation is pretty rare.

624
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:46.619
And I don't think Doctor Who has ever really got that right.

625
00:32:46.680 --> 00:32:51.599
I think, you know, there's Praxius, which I think is a really

626
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:54.480
really good example of that actually going well.

627
00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:56.460
But I can't think of many others.

628
00:32:56.519 --> 00:32:58.619
I'd make an argument for Bill.

629
00:32:58.680 --> 00:32:59.700
Oh, yeah.

630
00:32:59.700 --> 00:33:03.720
Because I know that's later days, but I will say when it came to

631
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:06.779
that romance or whatever that was, even though there wasn't a lot

632
00:33:06.779 --> 00:33:10.799
of development there, I did like the queering of those characters

633
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:14.279
and I thought it very romantic in a very kind of two-dimensional

634
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:17.880
way that I, you know, I could see myself, I guess, as a lesbian

635
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:18.960
being like, this is really cute.

636
00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:19.440
I love it.

637
00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:23.460
My problem with Bill was the fact that she was a black woman who

638
00:33:23.460 --> 00:33:27.720
was subjected to a lot of violence and trauma, that other pretty

639
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:32.279
white Jenna Coleman's, God bless them, were not subjugated to too

640
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:33.299
much throughout the series.

641
00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:35.579
And I think that just really bothered me, especially her getting

642
00:33:35.579 --> 00:33:36.059
shot.

643
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:36.900
That was a really big thing.

644
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:42.240
But I did like the queering of Bill and Heather slash alien goop

645
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:42.660
lady.

646
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:43.799
I thought that was cute.

647
00:33:43.859 --> 00:33:45.180
Gwyneth Paltrow.

648
00:33:48.420 --> 00:33:52.259
I have to say that one of the things that Moffat does is torture

649
00:33:52.259 --> 00:33:57.240
his regular characters, and I think that part of the problem is

650
00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:02.579
that there's a sort of I'm colourblind approach to what Moffat

651
00:34:02.579 --> 00:34:07.799
does or what happens to black characters in Moffat's era, which is

652
00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:08.519
not good enough.

653
00:34:08.579 --> 00:34:09.599
Do you know what I mean?

654
00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:11.159
Which is it's a problem.

655
00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:15.840
Yeah, it's more like, I'd be okay if that was universal, but there

656
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:19.739
are certain things I think you should avoid with people of colour

657
00:34:19.739 --> 00:34:24.960
in terms of violence, in the context of fiction, and one of those

658
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:27.480
things is anything too close to the real world or that's a

659
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:28.199
pervasive problem.

660
00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:32.280
And just, you know, shooting the shooting a black character.

661
00:34:32.340 --> 00:34:35.099
I think maybe that maybe resonates with me more as an American

662
00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:39.539
who's just like one of the gross ills of our society is just how

663
00:34:39.539 --> 00:34:42.119
many black people get shot on a daily basis by the police in

664
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:42.480
America.

665
00:34:42.539 --> 00:34:44.820
But seeing that to Bill.

666
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:46.019
That was the 1st thing I thought of.

667
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:47.159
And it was really upsetting.

668
00:34:47.219 --> 00:34:49.320
It just like the whole wide shot with the whole other stomach.

669
00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:50.219
I was like, this is not okay.

670
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:52.139
But that's later days.

671
00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:54.599
Let's talk about, let's talk about Day of the Moon.

672
00:34:54.659 --> 00:34:57.719
It's very interesting because, like, throughout the whole episode

673
00:34:57.719 --> 00:35:02.099
Stephen leads you on a path to think that Canton's just going out

674
00:35:02.099 --> 00:35:08.820
with a black woman, not a man, and that just seems, that just

675
00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:12.480
seems to be thrown in at the end that, oh, no, it's not a woman

676
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:13.079
it's actually a man.

677
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:17.099
So he says he wants to get married and that's why he got kicked

678
00:35:17.099 --> 00:35:24.239
out of the FBI and then someone, Amy perhaps says it's not a crime

679
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:24.599
is it?

680
00:35:24.659 --> 00:35:26.039
And he says, yes, it is.

681
00:35:26.099 --> 00:35:28.739
And so that's a hint, okay?

682
00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:31.260
beforehand.

683
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:36.059
And then, of course, and and you know, like our default is to

684
00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:38.820
assume that characters are heterosexual, that's what people do.

685
00:35:38.820 --> 00:35:41.820
They just assume that unless told otherwise characters are

686
00:35:41.820 --> 00:35:42.960
heterosexual.

687
00:35:43.019 --> 00:35:46.860
I get asked questions by people on the phone about my wife. from

688
00:35:46.860 --> 00:35:47.400
time to time.

689
00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:52.320
And so there's a hint that he's queer, you know, before the show

690
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:53.099
ends.

691
00:35:53.099 --> 00:35:58.619
And I love the fact that Nixon guesses wrong, but doesn't guess

692
00:35:58.619 --> 00:35:59.039
wrong.

693
00:35:59.099 --> 00:36:02.519
Guesses that the problem is that he wants to marry someone black

694
00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:06.179
and then talks about I'm a bit more liberal than you know, people

695
00:36:06.179 --> 00:36:07.320
give me credit for.

696
00:36:07.380 --> 00:36:10.920
You know, like it's actually sort of quite a good moment and then

697
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:14.940
suddenly, no, that's a bridge too far in 1969.

698
00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:19.980
So I think it's a well constructed gag and, you know, like I'm

699
00:36:19.980 --> 00:36:21.360
prepared to give it a pass.

700
00:36:21.420 --> 00:36:25.800
And I think I'm prepared to see Stephen Moffatt actually growing

701
00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:28.260
and responding to criticism in that area, I think.

702
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:30.599
He won't get it right for a while though.

703
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:44.519
Speaking of, like, Canton, I think it's really great that he gets

704
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:48.960
to film the silence for what becomes such a pivotal moment in this

705
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:52.619
particular episode with the landing on the moon and the using of

706
00:36:52.619 --> 00:36:55.860
that footage, but the fact that the silence has been here and

707
00:36:55.860 --> 00:37:01.199
influence humans for 1000s of years, is quite, um, I don't know

708
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:04.019
it's sort of like I sat there going, 1st time through going, oh

709
00:37:04.019 --> 00:37:04.260
really?

710
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:06.599
Like, you know, suddenly you're reinventing the wheel by putting

711
00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:10.920
them into the history of the show, but it's actually, again, it's

712
00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:13.260
a very Stephen Moffatt thing to do, and it's, it's rather

713
00:37:13.260 --> 00:37:15.360
brilliant, I think, in retrospect.

714
00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:20.340
I would have been more okay with that if the payoff, because we

715
00:37:20.340 --> 00:37:25.619
don't really know who the silence are until the end of or the

716
00:37:25.619 --> 00:37:26.760
middle of this season.

717
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:31.980
And for me, that almost felt like sort of a, maybe something that

718
00:37:31.980 --> 00:37:34.860
was in the original draft that didn't get edited out because we

719
00:37:34.860 --> 00:37:38.579
ultimately find out that they're a religious order whose whole

720
00:37:38.579 --> 00:37:41.639
like, you know, modus operada is trying to kill the doctor to

721
00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:46.199
prevent him from, you know, reigniting the time war, and I won't

722
00:37:46.199 --> 00:37:48.059
get too much into that because it's coming up later on.

723
00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:52.079
But that really undercut the silence for me as a terrifying

724
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:53.340
villain.

725
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:57.179
So yeah, for who they built them up to be, it did not pay off.

726
00:37:57.239 --> 00:38:00.059
I thought they were going to be some real, like kind of like love

727
00:38:00.059 --> 00:38:02.519
crafting, super sinister.

728
00:38:02.579 --> 00:38:04.920
Maybe we wouldn't really fully comprehend their motives.

729
00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:08.699
Like, what they represented as these really terrifying, bizarre.

730
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:12.300
Like, again, love crafty and villains, in my eyes, was not what it

731
00:38:12.300 --> 00:38:15.599
ended up being, which I can see why the stylist would want to

732
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:19.559
invest that much time on the back end of the planet's history to

733
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:22.619
screw with the doctor, but it just the payoff wasn't there for me

734
00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:23.760
in regards to them.

735
00:38:23.820 --> 00:38:24.900
It undercut them as villains.

736
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:27.960
But you see, I don't care a bad man.

737
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:29.940
Which is fine.

738
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.679
What I think is super, super interesting and fantastic is, again

739
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:36.659
Moffat rewriting the history of the show.

740
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:40.739
I mean, I don't know how the silence kind of influenced human

741
00:38:40.739 --> 00:38:47.099
evolution unless it was like on Scaroff and the Fendal's day off

742
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:47.699
you know what I mean?

743
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:49.320
Or Azal, frankly.

744
00:38:49.380 --> 00:38:52.619
Like all of the other monsters that have influenced human

745
00:38:52.619 --> 00:38:53.280
evolution.

746
00:38:53.340 --> 00:38:57.960
And so what he does is he rewrites human history, it's not the

747
00:38:57.960 --> 00:38:59.099
silence doing it.

748
00:38:59.159 --> 00:39:02.880
It's Moffat rewrites human history and inserts these terrifying

749
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:05.519
monsters into it so that they're around all the time.

750
00:39:05.579 --> 00:39:07.320
They're like the Vasht Narada.

751
00:39:07.380 --> 00:39:10.860
They're on your planet and they will get you when you're not

752
00:39:10.860 --> 00:39:14.099
looking and they're responsible for all of the scary things that

753
00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:14.340
happen.

754
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:18.059
I think later, in time of the doctor, when we discover that

755
00:39:18.059 --> 00:39:21.719
they're a scary religious order or whatever, that that is just

756
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:26.519
essentially Moffat going, here's a hilarious gag about this thing

757
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:30.059
that I never got round to resolving and don't really care about.

758
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:35.400
And so my feeling is that the silence as a religious order is a

759
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:35.760
joke.

760
00:39:35.820 --> 00:39:36.960
Do you know what I mean?

761
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:40.619
And I don't think it affects the way that we end up kind of

762
00:39:40.619 --> 00:39:42.000
feeling about them here.

763
00:39:42.059 --> 00:39:44.820
And the story needs them to be.

764
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:46.860
As you said last week, Maxwell.

765
00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:49.500
This kind of terrifying presence.

766
00:39:49.559 --> 00:39:50.579
They're always there.

767
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:51.780
They're always in the background.

768
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:53.400
They're the source of our paranoia.

769
00:39:53.460 --> 00:39:57.480
They're the source of the paranoia in the US in 1969.

770
00:39:57.719 --> 00:40:02.280
But Moffat always tries to make his monsters a threat to you, the

771
00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:05.760
audience, which is why he's not interested in sort of lizard

772
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:08.280
people invading the home counties or anything like that.

773
00:40:08.340 --> 00:40:12.420
The monster always has to be under your bed, whether it's a face

774
00:40:12.420 --> 00:40:17.579
spider or an angel or the bastard or the silence.

775
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:19.619
That's what he tries to do.

776
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:25.619
And so, and and also, for the purposes of the resolution, he needs

777
00:40:25.619 --> 00:40:31.079
to make them absolutely terrifying and omnipresent and utterly

778
00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:34.199
utterly evil so that it's all right to shoot them in the face when

779
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:35.159
you encounter them.

780
00:40:35.219 --> 00:40:39.539
They really capitalise on America's propensity for violence in the

781
00:40:39.539 --> 00:40:40.260
end, don't they?

782
00:40:41.820 --> 00:40:43.860
Did you forget where you were?

783
00:40:43.980 --> 00:40:45.239
Bang, bang.

784
00:40:46.019 --> 00:40:48.480
But there's more of them in America.

785
00:40:48.539 --> 00:40:51.179
So hence the more gun violence, I think.

786
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:52.920
They're concentrated in America.

787
00:40:52.980 --> 00:40:56.340
So you all have guns so that you can shoot the silence whenever

788
00:40:56.340 --> 00:40:59.579
you see them. such a grim fight.

789
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:04.559
I think I'm with Maxwell on this, in that, I think for these 2

790
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:07.380
partters, like they're built up to be these scary things and we've

791
00:41:07.380 --> 00:41:10.019
been waiting for them to arrive, but I actually do think what

792
00:41:10.019 --> 00:41:13.440
happens down the track with the religious order and how they're

793
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:16.440
sort of subordinate to other things makes them less scarier later

794
00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:21.239
on, which for me does influence my feelings about them now.

795
00:41:21.300 --> 00:41:24.840
But it doesn't stop the fact that I think the whole use of the

796
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:28.559
moon landing and you should kill us all on site, like the whole

797
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:32.219
use of that editing of that sequence and as that happens, is

798
00:41:32.219 --> 00:41:34.559
nothing short of, I think, wonderful television.

799
00:41:34.619 --> 00:41:35.880
Yes, absolutely.

800
00:41:35.940 --> 00:41:40.320
Oh, and using the footage from NASA command, where, of course, you

801
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:44.880
know, those cameras were on these poor, tired workers, and so

802
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:48.179
they're blinking and whatever, and they use the footage of them

803
00:41:48.179 --> 00:41:51.179
kind of blinking as the kind of like, oh, we've got a subliminal

804
00:41:51.179 --> 00:41:51.599
message now.

805
00:41:51.659 --> 00:41:55.679
Using that real footage in that context was so clever.

806
00:41:55.739 --> 00:41:59.940
And God bless the archivist who had to just wait for like a shift

807
00:41:59.940 --> 00:42:03.420
through hours of footage of like Houston or whatever, waiting for

808
00:42:03.420 --> 00:42:07.079
some poor, tired guy who's probably been chain smoking all day and

809
00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:10.500
drinking liquid lunches to just like blink or like, you know, just

810
00:42:10.500 --> 00:42:12.900
kind of do this for a 2nd just to get that clip.

811
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:14.579
Like, come on, that's great.

812
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:16.199
Use real history. beautiful.

813
00:42:16.260 --> 00:42:20.039
Having worked on an archive documentary series last year, it is

814
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:20.760
exactly that.

815
00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:25.500
It is trawling through newsreels to find just the right emotion on

816
00:42:25.500 --> 00:42:28.199
Hitler's face to support the voiceover.

817
00:42:29.340 --> 00:42:32.579
With the you should kill us all on site.

818
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:37.500
And the retrospect of knowing, you know, what the silence are.

819
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:42.059
I look at that line now and I think, is that the silence gloating

820
00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:44.519
or is that the silence ashamed?

821
00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:47.940
Because we find out that they are a splinter group.

822
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:49.500
Of the church?

823
00:42:49.739 --> 00:42:52.860
They're not the church itself.

824
00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:55.860
They are a splinter group. and is this the silence saying, yeah

825
00:42:55.860 --> 00:42:57.119
you should kill us all on site.

826
00:42:57.179 --> 00:42:57.719
Ha, ha, ha.

827
00:42:57.780 --> 00:42:59.519
Or is it someone saying, please kill us.

828
00:42:59.579 --> 00:43:01.980
We, you know, we are being used.

829
00:43:02.219 --> 00:43:06.360
It's, it's ambiguous and look, I think there is more in the text

830
00:43:06.360 --> 00:43:10.380
to support them being villainous than that reading I just gave, but

831
00:43:10.380 --> 00:43:14.460
it is layered and built upon because the other thing I sort of

832
00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:18.960
look at is, why else would the silence say that?

833
00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:23.280
Like, okay, it could be gloating and we think it may have enjoyed

834
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:28.500
killing Joy last week and it may enjoy what it's doing, or does

835
00:43:28.500 --> 00:43:31.260
its voice just sound scary?

836
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:32.820
So anything it says is scary.

837
00:43:32.940 --> 00:43:34.860
Or did Marfa just need that line?

838
00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:41.880
Yeah, it's like sometimes people in Moffat scripts say things that

839
00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:45.179
you need to move the plot forward like when the doctor says, no

840
00:43:45.179 --> 00:43:47.099
one says saved, you say safe.

841
00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:51.539
It's like, no, no, lots of people say saved in the context of 20

842
00:43:51.539 --> 00:43:53.519
people saved.

843
00:43:53.579 --> 00:43:55.739
Steve, I'm going to go with you.

844
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:56.579
Okay.

845
00:43:56.639 --> 00:43:58.920
But that's tenuous.

846
00:43:58.980 --> 00:44:06.599
But yeah, it's it is an amazing moment of triumph.

847
00:44:07.019 --> 00:44:12.119
But it also brings to me the thing that makes me slightly

848
00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:17.039
uncomfortable about this season, which is the doctor waltzes in

849
00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:19.260
and does his usual thing of saying, right, I'm giving you a chance

850
00:44:19.260 --> 00:44:21.420
to get off this planet before I enact my plan.

851
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:23.699
But then when he enacts the plan.

852
00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:26.159
He says I was never going to give you a chance to escape.

853
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:32.340
It really shocked me in 2011 when I saw that because I'm like, well

854
00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:33.000
no hold on.

855
00:44:33.059 --> 00:44:39.119
As ranty and toothy as David Tennant ever got, it was always, I'm

856
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:39.780
giving you a chance.

857
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:43.739
You know, he even walked up to Dalek Khan at the end of the

858
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:47.400
evolution of the Daleks and said, look, let's just work together

859
00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:48.960
with the last 2 survivors.

860
00:44:49.019 --> 00:44:52.199
You know, he said that to a dalek, but now...

861
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:54.719
The doctor is merciless.

862
00:44:54.780 --> 00:44:57.360
And it's, I don't think it's a mistake.

863
00:44:57.420 --> 00:44:59.579
I think it's a conscious choice and I think it's an interesting

864
00:44:59.579 --> 00:45:03.659
dramatic choice, but it makes me feel uncomfortable as a long-term

865
00:45:03.659 --> 00:45:03.900
viewer.

866
00:45:04.619 --> 00:45:06.659
I really like it.

867
00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:08.099
I have to say.

868
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:14.460
I like the fact that Moffat's doctors are a problem, that they're

869
00:45:14.460 --> 00:45:18.360
not sort of unambiguously good guys.

870
00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:23.579
And, you know, the doctor's refusal to have a gun himself, but his

871
00:45:23.579 --> 00:45:27.659
admission that he finds River with a gun actually kind of hot

872
00:45:27.659 --> 00:45:32.159
which, fair enough, she absolutely is like incredible.

873
00:45:33.659 --> 00:45:40.920
But, but also the fact that he has constructed these aliens to be

874
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:43.139
the sort of thing that it's right for you to kill.

875
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:49.500
And why is it right to kill them because they are oppressing us?

876
00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:52.380
We are in their thrall.

877
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:57.480
They are controlling all of humanity, and it's right to rise up

878
00:45:57.480 --> 00:45:59.579
against them and overthrow them.

879
00:45:59.639 --> 00:46:05.099
And remember, in Planet of the Oud, how excited I was by the Oud

880
00:46:05.099 --> 00:46:07.679
you know, killing all of those people, including the lovely girl

881
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:08.579
from marketing.

882
00:46:08.699 --> 00:46:10.320
It's the same here.

883
00:46:10.380 --> 00:46:15.239
I'm absolutely on board. with all of us killing the silence.

884
00:46:15.300 --> 00:46:17.400
They deserve it and it's right to do so.

885
00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:22.079
Including River in that sequence where she's just, you know, firing

886
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:26.099
left, right and centre round the, you know.

887
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:28.559
So good.

888
00:46:28.619 --> 00:46:30.119
It is very liberating.

889
00:46:30.179 --> 00:46:31.079
It's very cathartic.

890
00:46:31.199 --> 00:46:35.099
After 2 episodes of feeling completely powerless under these

891
00:46:35.099 --> 00:46:37.679
beings, which says such a testament to the writing and the

892
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:38.579
depiction and everything.

893
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:41.460
And then just the N word, we just kick their asses.

894
00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:44.219
Oh, it's so such a great release.

895
00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:46.500
And it's setting up another mystery.

896
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:49.500
Like it is, or it's setting up another piece of the puzzle because

897
00:46:49.500 --> 00:46:50.940
that only happens.

898
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:55.440
Like she admits that she can probably kill 8 or 9 of them before

899
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:58.559
you know, they overpower her or whatever.

900
00:46:58.619 --> 00:47:00.059
But she's lying.

901
00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:03.420
And after the doctor and Amy go into the TARDIS.

902
00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:06.420
And Rory comes out for some reason to kind of tell it to get

903
00:47:06.420 --> 00:47:07.500
inside or something like that.

904
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:10.139
But the doctor doesn't see this.

905
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:15.119
And it's the river is in fact a highly trained assassin thing.

906
00:47:15.179 --> 00:47:19.199
And she tells Rory not to tell the doctor about it.

907
00:47:19.260 --> 00:47:21.900
So it's another part of the puzzle.

908
00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:27.360
It's another indication that she is the person in the astronaut

909
00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:30.599
suit that's been trained to assassinate, you know.

910
00:47:32.219 --> 00:47:36.599
Something I wanted to point out about this scene is the doctor

911
00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:40.559
does when he sees the inside of the silent spaceship say, this is

912
00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:41.639
very Aikman Road.

913
00:47:41.699 --> 00:47:45.780
So he does link it and say, oh, I wonder how that got there.

914
00:47:45.780 --> 00:47:51.239
And there is a fan theory that this silence ship ends up on the

915
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:52.380
top of Craig's house.

916
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:55.679
Yeah. after this episode.

917
00:47:55.739 --> 00:47:58.739
So there is a silence somewhere who takes it and tries to escape

918
00:47:58.739 --> 00:48:00.300
and Crashlands in 2010.

919
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:04.860
It's interesting that they're bringing that character back for the

920
00:48:04.860 --> 00:48:07.019
forthcoming season, is what I've read.

921
00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:09.900
Just interested to see if they do anything more with him.

922
00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:13.440
Um, I sense that we're coming sort of to a close here.

923
00:48:13.500 --> 00:48:17.460
Uh, but I just want to say, I would love to see another episode

924
00:48:17.460 --> 00:48:24.420
with the silence in the same way that uh, time of the angels was

925
00:48:24.420 --> 00:48:25.260
to blink.

926
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:29.219
I would love to see an equivalent for this two-parter that

927
00:48:29.219 --> 00:48:33.480
elevates them more because we haven't really seen them since the

928
00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:37.500
um, you know, aside from one or 2 gags, we've seen, you know, after

929
00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:40.860
the the ending of this season, we don't really see them again.

930
00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:45.780
And, you know, now that theoretically they're no longer aligned

931
00:48:45.780 --> 00:48:50.340
with the church, what are they like on their own as a species, what

932
00:48:50.340 --> 00:48:51.000
are their motives?

933
00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:54.719
You know, because, you know, in many ways, we saw their potential

934
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:58.739
to be so scary and omnipresent and mess with human history for

935
00:48:58.739 --> 00:49:01.199
1000s of 1000 years, but that was what they were kind of a

936
00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:05.820
subordinate, or, you know, they had a cause that was connected to

937
00:49:05.820 --> 00:49:08.159
some other humans who just had a grudge against the doctor.

938
00:49:08.219 --> 00:49:11.639
I love to see how terrifying they are when they have their own

939
00:49:11.639 --> 00:49:12.119
agenda.

940
00:49:18.179 --> 00:49:23.760
So the doctor obviously returns River to her cell, and they have

941
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:26.159
some very interesting words.

942
00:49:26.219 --> 00:49:31.079
I mean, she kisses him and says, like, you're acting like we've

943
00:49:31.079 --> 00:49:33.840
never done that before, and, you know, there's a 1st time for

944
00:49:33.840 --> 00:49:34.739
everything in a last.

945
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:41.400
Stephen's dialogue is always just so infuriating me fun like, you

946
00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:44.219
know, he doesn't tell you anything, but he tells you everything.

947
00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:47.699
I think too, is the different reactions to that.

948
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:53.760
The doctor is like a bit, like he sort of likes it, but is a bit

949
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:57.480
confused and a little bit silly, like his reaction is a sort of

950
00:49:57.480 --> 00:49:59.099
comedy Matt Smith reaction.

951
00:49:59.099 --> 00:50:03.900
And it's a real moment of heartbreak for River.

952
00:50:03.960 --> 00:50:09.840
Like it's it's amazingly well played by her because she's already

953
00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:12.719
explained the implications of this in the last episode.

954
00:50:12.780 --> 00:50:17.940
So this is the last time that River gets to kiss the doctor

955
00:50:17.940 --> 00:50:23.579
goodbye, that she now knows that she's reaching the endpoint of

956
00:50:23.579 --> 00:50:25.019
her relationship with him.

957
00:50:25.019 --> 00:50:30.239
And I think that's, that is amazingly well played.

958
00:50:30.300 --> 00:50:32.639
And there is something, you know, Moffat.

959
00:50:32.760 --> 00:50:36.300
Mistreets his character so poorly that sometimes it's hard to.

960
00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:38.699
It's hard to empathise with them.

961
00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:42.239
Like, why aren't they punching the doctor in the face more often?

962
00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:47.760
And he's so clever and so self-consciously clever, but sometimes

963
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:52.139
he's able to just create, despite that context, these incredibly

964
00:50:52.139 --> 00:50:53.699
emotional scenes.

965
00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:55.380
And I think that's a really great one.

966
00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:59.460
Alex Kingston is amazing. and um, yeah.

967
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.440
Involvement in this era of the show cannot be underestimated. in

968
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:04.739
the least.

969
00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:06.599
Yeah, yeah.

970
00:51:06.659 --> 00:51:11.159
No, she's a huge, huge important part of it and a superb part of

971
00:51:11.159 --> 00:51:11.340
it.

972
00:51:11.400 --> 00:51:14.400
But also this scene, of course, is yet another thing for this

973
00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:16.800
season is that people know there's going to be some sort of answer

974
00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:17.460
coming soon.

975
00:51:17.639 --> 00:51:21.300
You know, we've got eye patch lady now, we've got this.

976
00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:26.820
And then, you know, in a moment, we're going to have, Is Amy

977
00:51:26.820 --> 00:51:28.920
pregnant, what's going on with that, you know?

978
00:51:28.980 --> 00:51:33.239
Um, this 2 parter is just setting up all these questions, which

979
00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:37.559
you know, Stephen is now putting front and centre visually in

980
00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:42.360
dialogue, um, to make sure that fans and new people stay invested

981
00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:42.960
in the whole season.

982
00:51:43.800 --> 00:51:47.219
In fact, he's repeating a trope from last year, isn't he?

983
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:51.840
Remember that he takes Amy on board, not just because she's lovely

984
00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:55.739
or whatever, but because there's the crack in her wall that he

985
00:51:55.739 --> 00:51:56.940
wants to investigate.

986
00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:03.239
And we see him in the 11th hour, when she says, why are you

987
00:52:03.239 --> 00:52:09.300
inviting me on board, he says, oh, I'm lonely, but he's looking at

988
00:52:09.300 --> 00:52:11.519
that screen, which has a picture of the crack on it.

989
00:52:11.579 --> 00:52:14.099
And I think he later admits that to her.

990
00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:17.340
And here, we're having a conversation.

991
00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:20.639
He's looking at a picture on the screen and there's her quantum

992
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:22.199
pregnancy kind of happening.

993
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:26.039
And he chooses not to tell her about it.

994
00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:30.960
And again, there's something really kind of upsetting about that

995
00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:32.699
choice.

996
00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:36.239
It seems like a bad choice and it makes the doctor seem like a bad

997
00:52:36.239 --> 00:52:36.719
person.

998
00:52:36.780 --> 00:52:38.099
And I think...

999
00:52:38.099 --> 00:52:38.880
But it kind of is sometimes.

1000
00:52:38.940 --> 00:52:39.719
Yeah.

1001
00:52:39.780 --> 00:52:40.860
Oh, I think it's deliberate.

1002
00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:42.239
I think it's absolutely deliberate.

1003
00:52:42.300 --> 00:52:42.900
Yeah.

1004
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:45.960
Yeah, I like when the doctor gets a little bit sinister and like

1005
00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:47.519
we're not always on their side.

1006
00:52:47.940 --> 00:52:51.659
I think we're also reminded too, that they're keeping a secret

1007
00:52:51.659 --> 00:52:53.820
from him in that scene as well.

1008
00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:57.360
And so that's another thing, yet another thing.

1009
00:52:57.420 --> 00:52:58.559
So the pregnancy.

1010
00:52:58.619 --> 00:53:02.639
Madame Cavarian, you know, Rivers an assassin, all of these things

1011
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:07.500
that are still left completely up in the air at the end of this.

1012
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:10.739
And your brain is trying to sort of come up with answers to these

1013
00:53:10.739 --> 00:53:12.780
things and is on an overload.

1014
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:15.360
Like, I mean, I'm thinking, how can Amy be pregnant and not

1015
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:16.079
pregnant, you know?

1016
00:53:16.139 --> 00:53:20.760
And that's just in my head constantly and reinforced in upcoming

1017
00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:21.539
episodes as well?

1018
00:53:22.019 --> 00:53:25.800
And and so, you know, we've got all of that going on.

1019
00:53:26.039 --> 00:53:28.679
And then it cuts to a scene.

1020
00:53:28.679 --> 00:53:31.320
On the street with with the little girl.

1021
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:35.820
So are we in New York 6 months later or something like that?

1022
00:53:35.880 --> 00:53:36.960
Yep.

1023
00:53:37.019 --> 00:53:38.280
Manhattan.

1024
00:53:38.340 --> 00:53:39.659
We near the Chrysler Building.

1025
00:53:39.719 --> 00:53:41.159
Right, right.

1026
00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:46.800
And, and again, that's very short, and it is like kind of

1027
00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:50.219
upsetting, and I think we'll come back to this later in the season

1028
00:53:50.219 --> 00:53:53.519
when more of the arc has been filled in for us.

1029
00:53:53.579 --> 00:53:58.739
Um, but the little girl uh, says she's dying and then

1030
00:53:58.739 --> 00:53:59.639
regenerates.

1031
00:54:01.019 --> 00:54:04.860
And again, we've been introduced to regeneration last episode.

1032
00:54:05.579 --> 00:54:08.219
My brain was just going on overload.

1033
00:54:08.280 --> 00:54:11.039
I was just stunned that this little girl was regenerating.

1034
00:54:11.099 --> 00:54:12.659
Oh my goodness, there's another timeline.

1035
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:13.619
Is it Ramana?

1036
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:14.519
Is it the Rani?

1037
00:54:14.579 --> 00:54:14.940
Who is it?

1038
00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:20.519
I thought it might be like the doctor's kid in some capacity.

1039
00:54:20.579 --> 00:54:25.440
Um, I never thought it was going to be who it ends up being.

1040
00:54:25.500 --> 00:54:30.239
The thing is, is that dialogue in the TARDIS where the doctor and

1041
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:33.780
Amy are discussing the pregnancy and she says that she didn't want

1042
00:54:33.780 --> 00:54:38.880
to tell Rory in case the baby had a time head and guess what?

1043
00:54:38.940 --> 00:54:40.860
It has a tight head.

1044
00:54:43.980 --> 00:54:48.659
On the topic of casting, Sidney Wade is playing the young girl.

1045
00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:56.519
Sidney Wade and Alex Kingston had just been seen on BBC One in the

1046
00:54:56.519 --> 00:54:59.639
show Marchlands playing mother and daughter.

1047
00:55:02.760 --> 00:55:04.920
The girl is British.

1048
00:55:04.980 --> 00:55:05.940
Yes.

1049
00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:08.340
That's so interesting they decide.

1050
00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:10.500
Well, I guess maybe that was to throw them off the track by giving

1051
00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:12.780
her an American accent, and I guess it makes sense because she was

1052
00:55:12.780 --> 00:55:15.059
raised in America, but that was an interesting choice.

1053
00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:19.260
And I think I think also giving her an American accent is a way to

1054
00:55:19.260 --> 00:55:19.860
distance her.

1055
00:55:20.280 --> 00:55:21.719
Yeah.

1056
00:55:21.780 --> 00:55:25.739
Throwing up from anyone we know because, you know, no one in the

1057
00:55:25.739 --> 00:55:28.619
regular cast of the show has an American accent, so she can't be

1058
00:55:28.619 --> 00:55:31.260
related to them is how your brain automatically works.

1059
00:55:32.039 --> 00:55:36.719
Yeah, yeah, but I don't know if that casting was deliberate.

1060
00:55:36.780 --> 00:55:40.199
The book I read it in just states it as a matter of fact.

1061
00:55:40.260 --> 00:55:42.059
I think Alex may have suggested that.

1062
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:45.179
That's entirely possible, you know?

1063
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:49.079
So Alex was informed of the season art.

1064
00:55:49.139 --> 00:55:51.179
She was told this is where we're going.

1065
00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:52.619
Matt Smith wasn't.

1066
00:55:54.840 --> 00:56:00.300
But Matt, Karen, and Arthur knew that Alex knew and were

1067
00:56:00.300 --> 00:56:04.139
constantly bugging her on set and she wouldn't tell them. for

1068
00:56:04.139 --> 00:56:04.320
her.

1069
00:56:04.380 --> 00:56:06.000
Because Spoilers.

1070
00:56:06.300 --> 00:56:10.980
Moffat's whole rationale is, from River's perspective, this is the

1071
00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:12.000
last story of the season.

1072
00:56:12.900 --> 00:56:15.420
She's been through all of it already.

1073
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:17.880
So of course she's going to know everything.

1074
00:56:17.940 --> 00:56:19.800
That still does my head in.

1075
00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:23.159
Every time.

1076
00:56:23.219 --> 00:56:24.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1077
00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:28.860
Look, look, yeah, I remember I was the same as you, Todd.

1078
00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:31.320
I was, ah, it's Romani, it's Susa.

1079
00:56:31.380 --> 00:56:32.820
Chancellor of Flavia.

1080
00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:35.099
I'm the one with the time head.

1081
00:56:51.659 --> 00:56:56.820
Well, it's episode 2 of the season, but weirdly enough, it's also

1082
00:56:56.820 --> 00:57:01.559
part 2 of a two-part story, and that can only mean picks of the

1083
00:57:01.559 --> 00:57:01.739
week.

1084
00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:03.179
Todd.

1085
00:57:03.239 --> 00:57:05.579
I'm going to go for a Netflix series.

1086
00:57:05.639 --> 00:57:06.780
There's only one season of this.

1087
00:57:06.840 --> 00:57:08.940
It's called AJ and the Queen.

1088
00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:09.960
RuPaul.

1089
00:57:10.019 --> 00:57:13.139
Um, who we all know and love stars in it.

1090
00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:17.940
Um, The young girl in it is extremely annoying, but he's he's

1091
00:57:17.940 --> 00:57:22.920
great and uh, It's very heartwarming. 10 episodes, go and watch

1092
00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:23.159
it.

1093
00:57:23.219 --> 00:57:24.539
AJ and the Queen.

1094
00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:27.420
I thought you were going to tell us to watch, you know, the deadly

1095
00:57:27.420 --> 00:57:28.619
assassin or something.

1096
00:57:28.679 --> 00:57:29.880
Yeah.

1097
00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:32.460
It's a much better choice.

1098
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:33.539
Yes.

1099
00:57:33.599 --> 00:57:34.679
Brandon?

1100
00:57:35.820 --> 00:57:39.059
I am going to choose something from Big Finish.

1101
00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:43.199
I have recently relistened to, which is the Blake 7 Crossfire

1102
00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:44.099
miniseries.

1103
00:57:44.340 --> 00:57:48.659
It is the final appearance of the late Jacqueline Pierce in the

1104
00:57:48.659 --> 00:57:48.900
range.

1105
00:57:48.960 --> 00:57:54.659
It is one of the early appearances of Yasmin Bannerman as Dana, and

1106
00:57:54.659 --> 00:57:55.440
we own her.

1107
00:57:55.500 --> 00:57:59.400
She was Jade in the end of the world, and it also brings in Hugh

1108
00:57:59.400 --> 00:58:03.420
Fraser as the previous president of the Federation and has a

1109
00:58:03.420 --> 00:58:07.619
fabulous civil war plot arc set in between the last 2 episodes of

1110
00:58:07.619 --> 00:58:08.940
series C.

1111
00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:11.519
So that is Blake 7 crossfire.

1112
00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:16.079
Well, you've done an audio and a TV show, so I guess I'll

1113
00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:17.099
recommend a video game.

1114
00:58:17.159 --> 00:58:22.860
Shin Magami Tensei Nocturne has just been rereleased in HD on the

1115
00:58:22.860 --> 00:58:27.780
Switch and other platforms, and it's basically like Pokemon for

1116
00:58:27.780 --> 00:58:33.719
adults because it's, instead of Pokemon, it's creatures and gods

1117
00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:36.119
and goddesses from mythology, like from all over the world.

1118
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:39.840
And it takes place in a post-apocalyptic environment.

1119
00:58:39.900 --> 00:58:41.340
It's very tough.

1120
00:58:41.400 --> 00:58:45.780
It's very challenging, but just aesthetically, and narratively

1121
00:58:45.780 --> 00:58:49.860
it's really rich, and they are coming out with a sequel on the

1122
00:58:49.860 --> 00:58:53.699
Switch this November, the 5th iteration of Shinagami Tensei.

1123
00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:57.480
So it's a good, which is, I think, going to be a pretty big game, a

1124
00:58:57.480 --> 00:58:58.199
pretty big release.

1125
00:58:58.260 --> 00:59:01.679
So this would be a good time to cut your teeth if you're a gamer

1126
00:59:01.679 --> 00:59:04.380
and you like RPGs and you like a bit of a challenge.

1127
00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:08.579
Good, good setting, pretty spooky, definitely check it out.

1128
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:10.619
All right.

1129
00:59:10.679 --> 00:59:13.500
Well, I'm going to recommend going outside.

1130
00:59:13.679 --> 00:59:19.320
It's a new thing that I've been sort of doing lately going for

1131
00:59:19.320 --> 00:59:24.179
very, very long walks with the dogs by the water and basically

1132
00:59:24.179 --> 00:59:28.920
enjoying the fresh air and it is literally a thing that I haven't

1133
00:59:28.920 --> 00:59:31.380
remembered to do for a very long time.

1134
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:36.960
And as a result of very circumstances, it's a thing that I'm still

1135
00:59:36.960 --> 00:59:42.360
able to do, and I can absolutely recommend it to all of you out

1136
00:59:42.360 --> 00:59:42.960
there at home.

1137
00:59:43.019 --> 00:59:45.780
And while you're on your walk, if you see a little girl with

1138
00:59:45.780 --> 00:59:46.619
glowing hands.

1139
00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:47.880
Don't worry, she'll be fine.

1140
00:59:47.940 --> 00:59:49.260
Just fine.

1141
01:00:11.880 --> 01:00:15.659
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.

1142
01:00:15.780 --> 01:00:20.099
We'll be back next week for a jolly old roggering from Henry Avery

1143
01:00:20.099 --> 01:00:22.139
in the Curse of the Black Spot.

1144
01:00:22.679 --> 01:00:26.579
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1145
01:00:26.579 --> 01:00:30.000
and you can keep up with us at flights or entirety on Facebook, at

1146
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:34.440
FTE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, flightthroughentirety

1147
01:00:32.940 --> 01:00:37.800
com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger and

1148
01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:39.119
Jody InterTara.

1149
01:00:39.179 --> 01:00:41.880
Maxwell, where can people find you online?

1150
01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:47.039
You can find me at Relic, the Lost Treasure podcast, which is a

1151
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:50.699
podcast I do on, as the title would imply, Lost Treasures and

1152
01:00:50.699 --> 01:00:51.300
Artefacts.

1153
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:53.940
You could just Google, relic the Lost Treasure podcast.

1154
01:00:54.000 --> 01:00:58.739
You'll come up with Stitcher links, Apple podcasts, whatever

1155
01:00:58.739 --> 01:00:59.880
they're calling it these days.

1156
01:00:59.940 --> 01:01:02.159
They seem to change it every 5 minutes, Spotify.

1157
01:01:02.219 --> 01:01:05.340
Um, I also do streaming when we're not in a pandemic.

1158
01:01:05.340 --> 01:01:11.159
Um, at uh, Twitch slash Treasurehunter Maxwell and just follow me

1159
01:01:11.159 --> 01:01:11.579
on Twitter.

1160
01:01:11.639 --> 01:01:13.980
I like to talk to people and that's atlaw treasure pod.

1161
01:01:14.039 --> 01:01:18.360
Until next time, remember that if the doctor asks you to tape all

1162
01:01:18.360 --> 01:01:21.659
the conversations you have in your office, it's probably best to

1163
01:01:21.659 --> 01:01:26.460
stop doing that sometime soon after the end of the episode.

1164
01:01:26.519 --> 01:01:29.039
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1165
01:01:29.099 --> 01:01:30.360
Good night.

1166
01:01:30.420 --> 01:01:32.219
See you soon Cheers.

1167
01:01:38.280 --> 01:01:41.159
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd Beelby, Nathan

1168
01:01:41.159 --> 01:01:43.739
Bottomley, Maxwell, Coviello, and Brendan Jones.

1169
01:01:43.800 --> 01:01:45.900
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1170
01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:50.099
This episode, Gaslight Girl Boss Ginger was recorded on the 1st of

1171
01:01:50.099 --> 01:01:53.820
August 2021 and released on the 19th of September.

1172
01:01:54.480 --> 01:01:57.840
Now that you've listened to this episode, head on over to

1173
01:01:57.840 --> 01:02:02.219
maximumpowerpodcast.com and subscribe to the new Blake 7 podcast

1174
01:02:02.219 --> 01:02:05.820
featuring many of the hosts and guests from FDE and now available

1175
01:02:05.820 --> 01:02:08.219
in all good podcatchers everywhere.

1176
01:02:12.599 --> 01:02:15.360
Doing it now. doing it now.

1177
01:02:15.539 --> 01:02:17.340
Doing it now.

1178
01:02:17.639 --> 01:02:21.000
Okay, I'm clearly audible.

1179
01:02:24.059 --> 01:02:25.320
All good?

1180
01:02:25.380 --> 01:02:26.280
Yep.

1181
01:02:26.280 --> 01:02:26.940
Yep.

1182
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:30.480
Okay, I'm going into do not disturb mode.

1183
01:02:31.679 --> 01:02:34.139
Not on my phone just generally.

1184
01:02:34.199 --> 01:02:35.940
Um, okay.

1185
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:41.760
So let's start with the, let's start with the um, the plug.

1186
01:02:43.019 --> 01:02:48.300
From the end of for the end of episode 216.

1187
01:02:50.159 --> 01:02:53.099
So, Maxwell, where can people find you?