WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:31:04 1 00:00:36.060 --> 00:00:39.840 Hello, Nilissa, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety. 2 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:44.280 The only Doctor Who podcast still standing around wondering where 3 00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:46.140 the boatswain got to. 4 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:47.219 I'm Nathan. 5 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:48.240 I'm James. 6 00:00:48.299 --> 00:00:49.679 I'm Todd. 7 00:00:49.740 --> 00:00:56.820 And I'm Robert Picardo as Lily Cole in a crunchy, soggy, crimply 8 00:00:56.820 --> 00:00:57.780 nighty for this one. 9 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:02.520 You really are. hospital night to your fat, yeah. 10 00:01:02.579 --> 00:01:07.799 Well, Pirates of the Caribbean was a huge hit just 7 years ago, and 11 00:01:07.799 --> 00:01:10.620 so it's time for Doctor Who to do what it does best. 12 00:01:10.739 --> 00:01:14.760 Cash in on a massive craze long after everyone else has well and 13 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:15.480 truly moved on. 14 00:01:15.540 --> 00:01:20.400 So let's check in on Hugh Bonneville and his crew of scurvy 15 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:25.379 bearded lads while we're all trying to avoid catching the curse of 16 00:01:25.379 --> 00:01:26.219 the black spots. 17 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:40.500 I loved the smugglers. 18 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:41.040 How about you? 19 00:01:41.099 --> 00:01:43.319 Yeah, no, I think the smugglers... 20 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:44.219 I'm kind of serious. 21 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:49.799 This feels like a reboot of Billy's last one, which is a favourite 22 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:53.159 of this podcast, if you go back and listen to our recording. 23 00:01:53.219 --> 00:01:56.340 Yeah, so it was probably not deadly bored by it. 24 00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:58.680 It's sort of a prequel to it, isn't it? 25 00:01:58.739 --> 00:02:04.200 I'm blowing my powder early, but I honestly feel that, Okay, let's 26 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:05.459 see what do we all feel about this one? 27 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:12.240 I think that it doesn't quite deserve the bad reputation that it 28 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:18.599 has until about 30 minutes in when it all goes horribly wrong. 29 00:02:19.139 --> 00:02:21.180 What about you, Todd? 30 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:23.939 I think it deserves the bad reputation. 31 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:28.680 And from 30 minutes in, it's pretty obvious it just falls 32 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:30.240 collapses in upon itself. 33 00:02:30.300 --> 00:02:32.639 And I have problems with some of the casting as well, including 34 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:34.259 Hugh Bonavill and Oscar Lloyd. 35 00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:35.219 Goodness. 36 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:36.599 James. 37 00:02:36.659 --> 00:02:38.280 I think you're all wrong. 38 00:02:38.340 --> 00:02:40.439 No, no, no. 39 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:43.500 I remember this being terrible. 40 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:47.639 And I was pleasantly whelmed. 41 00:02:47.699 --> 00:02:49.680 I wasn't overwhelmed. 42 00:02:49.740 --> 00:02:51.960 I wasn't underwhelmed, I was whelmed. 43 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:55.080 You just pushed through it. 44 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:58.800 I think that's the wrong podcast, shit. 45 00:03:00.180 --> 00:03:03.780 The reason I mention the smugglers, it's just, I feel this is a 46 00:03:03.780 --> 00:03:05.639 perfect trout and bolly and pen. 47 00:03:05.699 --> 00:03:06.539 See what I did there? 48 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:10.020 This is a perfect early trout and vehicle. 49 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:12.960 And the only thing that lets it down is hasty. 50 00:03:13.020 --> 00:03:16.259 I suspect, hasty rewriting and looking for an hour. 51 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:19.379 But the beginning of it, I think, is lovely, and Hugh Bonnable. 52 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:20.280 Oh my god. 53 00:03:20.699 --> 00:03:24.659 I think, I mean, I'm going to put my cards on the table and think 54 00:03:24.659 --> 00:03:27.060 that Hugh Bonneville should basically be in everything. 55 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:28.979 He is... 56 00:03:28.979 --> 00:03:30.719 He's the best reactive actor. 57 00:03:30.780 --> 00:03:36.300 We paid a fortune for a major star to react to Glad Rap hanging 58 00:03:36.300 --> 00:03:36.599 in. 59 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:39.360 In the studio. 60 00:03:39.419 --> 00:03:42.419 Acting is just... reacting. 61 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:46.740 I think it's horrible and it's such a wicked waste of a talent. 62 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:50.460 Yeah, yeah, I mean, he's got a sort of good, I don't know. 63 00:03:50.939 --> 00:03:55.139 I don't agree with Todd about Bonneville or Lloyd. 64 00:03:55.199 --> 00:03:56.759 I think uh, the boy. 65 00:03:56.819 --> 00:04:01.439 Toby is actually really quite subtle and seems to know what he's 66 00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:01.740 doing. 67 00:04:01.740 --> 00:04:08.039 And according to Peter, He had a fantastic turn in Emmerdale being 68 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:09.060 pulled through a hedge. 69 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:14.159 So it clearly didn't affect his future career, except he doesn't 70 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:15.659 seem to have worked since 2017. 71 00:04:15.900 --> 00:04:21.480 But if the dear listener decides to Google some images, they'll 72 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:25.560 see that he has cheekbones that you could actually cut yourself on 73 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:25.920 I think. 74 00:04:25.980 --> 00:04:28.860 He's turned into a handsome young man. 75 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:34.019 See, I knew him from Emmerdale because he was in there just prior 76 00:04:34.019 --> 00:04:37.980 and I was watching it at the time and Amanda Donahue was his 77 00:04:37.980 --> 00:04:40.800 mother and he had unfortunate storylines, the hedge storyline and 78 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:42.060 getting kicked in the head by a horse. 79 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:44.100 But you know, he was... 80 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:50.220 He was the youngest of the family. 81 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:51.899 There were much bigger things going on. 82 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:56.220 So he got, you know, the more tame sort of storylines. 83 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:59.040 I actually think is very good, and I think Hugh is very good as 84 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:03.180 well, but I just think they're just too nice for pirates, you know 85 00:05:03.180 --> 00:05:06.540 and when I think Lee Ross is actually doing, and the other members 86 00:05:06.540 --> 00:05:09.959 are doing much more down and dirty sort of pirating, and they're 87 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:12.000 just sort of the upper crust of the pirating. 88 00:05:12.060 --> 00:05:12.839 Do you know what I mean? 89 00:05:12.899 --> 00:05:15.420 Like, I just kind of think there's something a little bit amiss 90 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:17.639 there that that's what I was trying to say earlier on. 91 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:21.420 I like that he plays a gentleman pirate. 92 00:05:21.540 --> 00:05:23.819 This is very Robert Louis Stevenson's kidnapped. 93 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:30.000 The Smugglers was Dr. we talked about Dr. Sin and Moonfleets. 94 00:05:30.060 --> 00:05:31.379 It had its own antecedents. 95 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:34.620 I love that when Doctor Who does current hits. 96 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:36.420 It doesn't go to Pirates of the Caribbean. 97 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:39.420 It goes to the literary antecedent of 100 years, something years 98 00:05:39.420 --> 00:05:42.180 ago. which is, I think, very cute. 99 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:45.839 But yeah, he's a gentleman pirate, and when he discovers his son 100 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:49.500 there, as Lee Ross's character says, oh, no, he's gone solved. 101 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:54.180 So we can believe that he was a cutthroat R and a stabby type 102 00:05:54.180 --> 00:05:54.600 person. 103 00:05:54.660 --> 00:05:57.420 How good is Amy in Captain Pirate drag? 104 00:05:57.480 --> 00:05:59.279 She looks gorgeous. 105 00:05:59.339 --> 00:06:03.360 I actually think that that might be the best thing about it is 106 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:06.720 that wonderful scene where Amy's in Pirate Drag. 107 00:06:06.779 --> 00:06:09.120 She looks up after finding the cutlass. 108 00:06:09.180 --> 00:06:12.600 Obviously they've locked all the cutlasses away so they don't sort 109 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:15.720 of injure one another by mistake or anything. 110 00:06:15.779 --> 00:06:18.899 And then she sort of looks up at the wall and there's a pirate 111 00:06:18.899 --> 00:06:21.420 outfit hanging there and she sort of thinks, all right, I'll have 112 00:06:21.420 --> 00:06:21.660 that. 113 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:25.500 And suddenly she's swinging from the yard arm and stuff and she 114 00:06:25.500 --> 00:06:27.899 thinks she's doing a really fantastic job. 115 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:31.019 Like she thinks she's being incredibly threatening without 116 00:06:31.019 --> 00:06:34.500 realising, of course, that they're terrified of literally the 117 00:06:34.500 --> 00:06:35.939 slightest Nick at all. 118 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:40.439 I think that that's absolutely really fun and I would have loved 119 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:41.459 more of that. 120 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:45.360 And that's part of the problem, I think, is that all the really 121 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:50.220 fun piracy stuff like making Matt Smith walk the plank, you know 122 00:06:50.220 --> 00:06:55.199 having Amy swinging off the rigging and stuff, all of that stuff 123 00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:58.860 basically goes away really, really quickly. 124 00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:03.779 And we end up just sort of wandering around the pirate ship for 125 00:07:03.779 --> 00:07:04.680 quite a lot of time. 126 00:07:05.100 --> 00:07:09.420 Do you think uh, Karen in the Pirate Trag is the reason why Disney 127 00:07:09.420 --> 00:07:13.740 thought it was a good idea to reboot um, Pirates of the Caribbean 128 00:07:13.740 --> 00:07:15.360 with her a few years ago? 129 00:07:16.139 --> 00:07:17.819 Could be. 130 00:07:17.819 --> 00:07:18.600 Maybe. 131 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:21.060 Did we know that Disney cast's purely on visuals? 132 00:07:21.180 --> 00:07:22.259 Yeah. 133 00:07:22.259 --> 00:07:27.060 And she is, she is sort of properly good in this, I think, you 134 00:07:27.060 --> 00:07:31.980 know, I'm always astounded watching her by how kind of subtle she 135 00:07:31.980 --> 00:07:35.339 is, and there'll be more of that next week where I think she puts 136 00:07:35.339 --> 00:07:37.019 in an amazing performance. 137 00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:42.000 But here I think she is just kind of solidly reliable. 138 00:07:42.060 --> 00:07:43.259 I think she's really good. 139 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:47.459 And in fact, I think we'll get to this at the end, she's a little 140 00:07:47.459 --> 00:07:51.540 bit too good for the material in places and that can cause a 141 00:07:51.540 --> 00:07:52.379 problem. 142 00:07:52.439 --> 00:07:53.819 I agree with you, Nathan. 143 00:07:53.819 --> 00:07:57.060 I think she's, she does a really great job. throughout this. 144 00:07:57.120 --> 00:07:58.199 And I also love... 145 00:07:58.259 --> 00:08:00.839 I also love Arthur Darvel's acting when he's under the influence 146 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:02.639 of the siren, like in that sequence. 147 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:03.540 It's so good. 148 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:04.740 So delicious. 149 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:07.860 He leaves the cast in reactive acting. 150 00:08:08.100 --> 00:08:09.540 Yes. 151 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:13.199 If only there was something for them all to react to. 152 00:08:14.579 --> 00:08:19.620 Monitor reacts to hanging glad rap on a south stage. 153 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:25.139 At the cheapest fan production reboot of caretaker. 154 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:28.680 This really is, this really is Voyager on the holodeck, isn't it? 155 00:08:41.820 --> 00:08:45.240 We should mention the smugglers, actually, while we were talking 156 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:50.460 about it as being the first casting and speaking part of an actor 157 00:08:50.460 --> 00:08:52.320 of colour in Doctor Who. 158 00:08:52.379 --> 00:08:57.419 And so it's nice to see a mirror of things that happened then and 159 00:08:57.419 --> 00:08:58.440 happening again in this one. 160 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:02.460 I like, I like the 1st 3 quarters of this a lot more than I 161 00:09:02.460 --> 00:09:03.480 thought I did. 162 00:09:03.779 --> 00:09:06.419 And Richard, I do agree with. 163 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:07.559 I do agree with you all. 164 00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:10.440 Like, I mean, I'm being rather, you know, blunt and harsh, but, you 165 00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:12.720 know, I was quite, I was, yeah, it is my job. 166 00:09:12.779 --> 00:09:13.679 It's my contract. 167 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:17.940 But I was enjoying the 1st 20 minutes, but then I just got more 168 00:09:17.940 --> 00:09:21.059 and more annoyed as it went to the conclusion and then it just 169 00:09:21.059 --> 00:09:25.620 sort of, I just kind of, just, everything began to irritate me, you 170 00:09:25.620 --> 00:09:25.799 know? 171 00:09:25.860 --> 00:09:27.240 Yeah, I think so. 172 00:09:27.299 --> 00:09:30.120 Look, I do want to talk about that a little bit later, but I also 173 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:36.419 just kind of want to talk a bit about the good bits before we all 174 00:09:36.419 --> 00:09:38.879 kind of start tearing into it. 175 00:09:38.940 --> 00:09:43.740 I have to say that I think, you know, having Matt unable to kind 176 00:09:43.740 --> 00:09:46.620 of communicate with them properly because he keeps wanting to talk 177 00:09:46.620 --> 00:09:50.460 about senses and things, that that's kind of adorable. 178 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:55.980 I like the little bit of jockeying for position between the doctor 179 00:09:55.980 --> 00:09:59.879 and Captain Avery, about who's the proper captain. 180 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:04.559 I think it's sort of adorable the way that that pirate disappears 181 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:07.980 and Matt kind of catches his hat before it hits the ground and now 182 00:10:07.980 --> 00:10:09.779 he's wearing the guy's pirate at. 183 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:12.360 Like all of that stuff is actually really quite good. 184 00:10:12.419 --> 00:10:14.639 There's plenty of good stuff going on. 185 00:10:14.700 --> 00:10:17.399 There's a little life lesson in this for young people. 186 00:10:17.460 --> 00:10:19.320 And it really struck me this time. 187 00:10:19.379 --> 00:10:23.519 It's when, as you just said it, when the doctor hands over the 188 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:26.580 standard controlled and says, oh, Captain, what do we do now? 189 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:30.480 Which is actually a dangerous thing because we know the doctor 190 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:31.139 knows everything. 191 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:32.820 Can you imagine Tom doing that? 192 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:38.879 Again, this is why it feels like a Pat Trouton story. 193 00:10:38.940 --> 00:10:42.360 It reminds me a little bit, too, of like, you know, I think 194 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:45.779 there's some beautiful visuals with the with the pirate ship 195 00:10:45.779 --> 00:10:48.000 becalmed and the siren coming out of the water. 196 00:10:48.059 --> 00:10:51.419 Reminds me a little bit of like the highlanders with the ship sort 197 00:10:51.419 --> 00:10:53.940 of in that where there bends in the water and that sort of thing. 198 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:58.440 That very memorable scene, which we don't get to see of Ben in a 199 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:00.600 wet shirt, sort of coming out of the water. 200 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:05.279 They better do that justice when they reanimated in, you know 201 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:06.000 2045. 202 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:07.440 They had better. 203 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:09.840 Yeah, I don't know. 204 00:11:09.899 --> 00:11:13.919 It seems to have been something that was possible like a long time 205 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:18.299 ago and possible on a Doctor Who budget, you know, as early as the 206 00:11:18.299 --> 00:11:23.759 chase to have a ship in water that you can shoot on. 207 00:11:23.820 --> 00:11:25.740 And I think it is very effective here. 208 00:11:25.799 --> 00:11:27.240 Lake El Street. 209 00:11:27.299 --> 00:11:28.740 Right, right, right. 210 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:29.340 Right. 211 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:33.600 Well, I mean, it's a great choice and it does give us some good 212 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:34.200 visuals. 213 00:11:34.259 --> 00:11:35.700 The sheep is terribly convincing. 214 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:40.440 The scene later on where they finally stop being becalmed and run 215 00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:44.580 into a storm is tremendously good and quite exciting. 216 00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:47.220 There's a great bit of sort of piratory in that. 217 00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:51.899 I think it was a good choice for a Doctor Who story. 218 00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:56.460 And I think that pirates are just reliably, terribly fun. 219 00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:00.419 So I'm absolutely on board with it. 220 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:03.659 The problem is, I think, that far too early, they sort of switch 221 00:12:03.659 --> 00:12:08.519 from pirates to space corridors and, you know, that's where 222 00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:09.659 everything goes wrong. 223 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:13.799 I would have found it more interesting visually. 224 00:12:13.860 --> 00:12:17.340 And maybe, I think, I feel like they ran out of time with this 225 00:12:17.340 --> 00:12:17.519 one. 226 00:12:17.580 --> 00:12:22.139 But it went through some structural changes, but it visually the 227 00:12:22.139 --> 00:12:26.580 pirate void or the alternate ship in the mirror universe should 228 00:12:26.580 --> 00:12:32.039 have all had goatees and beards, and it's been an evil version. 229 00:12:32.100 --> 00:12:33.720 No, sorry, that's Star Trek, isn't it? 230 00:12:33.779 --> 00:12:36.960 But just if they've gone with the liquid motif or just gone with 231 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:38.100 something that was very surreal. 232 00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:41.820 I feel it's just let down by the budget crash and that terrible 233 00:12:41.820 --> 00:12:49.139 year 12 version of Voyager Caretaker. you see in the, I mean 234 00:12:49.139 --> 00:12:49.679 seriously. 235 00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:53.340 And you've got Hugh Bonnable wandering about looking astonished at 236 00:12:53.340 --> 00:12:56.399 Gurneys and floating slabs. 237 00:12:56.460 --> 00:12:57.059 It's not good. 238 00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:57.960 No. 239 00:12:58.019 --> 00:12:58.740 No. 240 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:04.620 So how do we feel about our siren, our stroppy homicidal mermaid 241 00:13:04.620 --> 00:13:05.759 as the doctor calls her? 242 00:13:05.820 --> 00:13:08.039 I think she's absolutely beautiful. 243 00:13:08.100 --> 00:13:13.139 Like, I love the change of colours from green to red and all of 244 00:13:13.139 --> 00:13:16.740 that and her song and there's some beautiful moments, but you know 245 00:13:16.740 --> 00:13:19.799 does it really make much sense that, you know, she goes homicidal 246 00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:23.159 on them and and like, and even at the end with, you know, trying 247 00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:28.440 to get the permission to, to let them be cured or whatever, or 248 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:31.080 whatever, even I'm not convinced by that whole plot either. 249 00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:35.639 See, I'm kind of glad they didn't get Lily Cole to act because 250 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:38.519 have you seen the imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus? 251 00:13:38.580 --> 00:13:39.480 No? 252 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:42.000 Not good. 253 00:13:42.059 --> 00:13:45.899 No, she's not an actor, but she was one of the highest paid, the 254 00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:48.779 10 highest paid models of the year before in the UK. 255 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:53.340 It was it was a massive coup getting her publicity wise. 256 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:56.639 But yeah, it shouldn't, we shouldn't have gone to such a static 257 00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:57.299 realm. 258 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:00.539 If it had been something of a mystery. 259 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:05.159 If rather than the holographic doctor from Voyager, if we'd 260 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:09.240 actually had a little bit of, well, what if what's happening 261 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:09.600 here? 262 00:14:09.659 --> 00:14:14.580 If, say, the aliens existed in a liquid environment, and they 263 00:14:14.580 --> 00:14:18.960 weren't exactly just put into a make do sick bay, and there was 264 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:21.899 some, I don't know how visually you would do that. 265 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:26.580 But, as I say, if you just truncated that last half or quarter 266 00:14:26.580 --> 00:14:28.080 into a smaller moment. 267 00:14:28.139 --> 00:14:29.340 But I guess that's the point. 268 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:31.200 This is a very thin premise, isn't it? 269 00:14:31.259 --> 00:14:32.279 Yeah. 270 00:14:32.340 --> 00:14:38.159 And I think the bit early on where we're trying to discover what's 271 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:39.419 going on. 272 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:43.860 So the problem is set up immediately in the teaser, which is just 273 00:14:43.860 --> 00:14:47.879 largely played for laughs, I think, where poor old McGrath kind of 274 00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:51.779 slightly nicks his hand or whatever and suddenly he goes outside 275 00:14:51.779 --> 00:14:53.820 and he's completely disappeared. 276 00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:56.759 And then you have the doctor coming along to try and solve it. 277 00:14:56.820 --> 00:14:59.340 And the doctor comes up with a sort of series of theories. 278 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:03.000 I think there's 4 theories that he presents that are just 279 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:04.019 disproved. 280 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:08.279 And even though that doesn't go anywhere or do anything, it's a 281 00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:11.100 nice change from a Doctor Who turns up and immediately knows 282 00:15:11.100 --> 00:15:15.539 what's going on and is just able to say, you know, this is from 283 00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:18.659 the planet Zog, and I know how it works and all of that, we 284 00:15:18.659 --> 00:15:21.899 actually see him doing what the doctor used to do a lot more 285 00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:26.399 frequently, I think, which is to try and work out what the rules 286 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:27.000 are. 287 00:15:27.059 --> 00:15:29.580 And so he comes up with a theory it's falsified. 288 00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:31.500 He has to come up with another theory and so on. 289 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:34.379 And I think that that's actually quite good. 290 00:15:34.500 --> 00:15:40.440 And I also like the idea that suddenly it's reflective surfaces 291 00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:43.320 that are the danger. 292 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:47.159 Initially, we think it's water and then we find out it's any sort 293 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:50.399 of reflective surfaces at all and having them hide in the powder 294 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:51.899 room where there's the powder room. 295 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:56.519 The armoury, the arsenal, where there's no protective services. 296 00:15:56.580 --> 00:15:59.639 All of that's actually sort of quite interesting and that develops 297 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:02.639 and that's how the plot propels itself. 298 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:05.940 I believe that pirates have a powder room. 299 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.240 They are very, they are very pretty pirates. 300 00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:15.779 They do have bad teeth. 301 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:17.940 I think there is quite a lot of bad. 302 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:19.860 Another nod to the heart no era, yes. 303 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:22.860 But they do have a big manicurist. 304 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:25.379 They have lovely beards, don't they? 305 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:30.059 I would have liked the final moment. to continue from Dave the 306 00:16:30.059 --> 00:16:32.460 Moon. where everyone is now sporting a beard. 307 00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:39.059 That's right Matt turns around and Amy and Rory have beards. 308 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:42.720 Yeah, so all of that is quite good. 309 00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:47.220 And there are some sort of decent jump scares as well. 310 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:52.019 So, you know, like, I think, I think for a while we're doing okay 311 00:16:52.019 --> 00:16:55.200 here, at what point does it go wrong? 312 00:16:55.500 --> 00:17:00.720 For me, they're just little things that begin to sort of add up 313 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:04.500 like, you know, I just find, And I started to be so negative. 314 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:06.240 I just I really do. 315 00:17:06.299 --> 00:17:07.079 I'm so sorry. 316 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:12.000 Like, the goal, like all the pirate treasure reminds me of the 317 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:16.140 treasure from the ultimate foe that, um, Anthony Amy tries to 318 00:17:16.140 --> 00:17:17.039 bribe bits with. 319 00:17:17.099 --> 00:17:19.980 It looks like fake sort of pantomime stuff. 320 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:21.000 Do you know what I mean? 321 00:17:21.059 --> 00:17:25.259 And then, you know, suddenly Hugh Bonneville is so cuddly and he's 322 00:17:25.259 --> 00:17:30.119 in the TARDIS and also accepting and does that really stick? 323 00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:30.779 you know what I mean? 324 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:34.500 And then, like, we find his son and he's supposed to be hiding 325 00:17:34.500 --> 00:17:37.619 away for, I don't know how long, but it's like, surely he would 326 00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:38.759 have been discovered before then. 327 00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:43.019 Like, there's just, for me, there's little tiny things that, Just 328 00:17:43.019 --> 00:17:43.859 begin to add up. 329 00:17:43.859 --> 00:17:46.799 And then, of course, when they do get taken, and we know that, of 330 00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:49.859 course, Lee Ross's character gets taken, but we don't see that 331 00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:53.579 happen because of the having to re-edit the episode, because it 332 00:17:53.579 --> 00:17:55.859 was moved in the sequence of the season and have the eye 333 00:17:55.859 --> 00:17:56.640 passionating in. 334 00:17:56.700 --> 00:18:00.539 That always irritates me, that the fact that we don't see that. 335 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:04.319 I mean, I know that I just find it a very Star Trek Voyager 336 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:04.680 thing. 337 00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:07.500 You might all disagree with me, but there's these little things 338 00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:12.480 that just begin to just, for me, just slowly sort of add up to the 339 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:16.859 point then when we are in Star Trek Voyager holodeck with the 340 00:18:16.859 --> 00:18:22.200 doctor, that by the end when we have to watch, Rory died, again 341 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:26.759 and I think the really appalling attempts at reviving him, and 342 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:28.019 it's not Karen's fault. 343 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:31.619 It's the way it's shot and just totally unconvincing that whole 344 00:18:31.619 --> 00:18:33.480 CPR sequence. 345 00:18:33.539 --> 00:18:34.680 That really just irritates me. 346 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:35.759 Like, totally. 347 00:18:35.819 --> 00:18:39.480 Like, I really, that just, well, sorry, I'm just, you know, that 348 00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:42.660 whole sequence just really just, is the icing on the cake for me 349 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:45.480 as, as the whole thing collapses in upon itself towards the end. 350 00:18:45.539 --> 00:18:46.920 I'm so sorry. 351 00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:47.640 I'm so sorry. 352 00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:50.640 I'm going to get much worse than that, Todd. no need to 353 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:51.299 apologise. 354 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:56.460 The, the, I think that you identified earlier on, Todd, something 355 00:18:56.460 --> 00:19:00.900 that is a problem in the episode, and that is the Hugh Bonneville 356 00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:05.220 learns a valuable lesson about the importance of fatherhood, is 357 00:19:05.220 --> 00:19:11.039 such a sort of weird anachronistic and kind of cheesy and trite 358 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:13.259 character arc for him. 359 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:17.339 You know, like he learns that, um, it's very important to look 360 00:19:17.339 --> 00:19:20.460 after his son, he tries to throw away the treasure to kind of 361 00:19:20.460 --> 00:19:22.380 protect him from the siren. 362 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:25.799 He can't bring himself to throw away that cheesy, fake looking 363 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:26.519 crown. 364 00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:29.579 And then he loses his son. 365 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:37.500 It's all just incredibly kind of tedious and kind of played. 366 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:41.460 It's it's, there's nothing really very interesting about it. 367 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:43.799 So I think that's a problem. 368 00:19:43.859 --> 00:19:47.400 I think that going to the TARDIS in the middle of the episode 369 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:48.599 kills it. 370 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:51.240 Very much so. 371 00:19:51.299 --> 00:19:53.160 But it is, it is that thing. 372 00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:56.579 It's that thing where it seems to be marking time. 373 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:00.119 We've run out of pirate things to do, so are you going to do 374 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:00.299 this? 375 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:04.740 I had the same experience with my Lego pirate ship after I built 376 00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:08.579 it and very quickly it descended into sodomy and after that there 377 00:20:08.579 --> 00:20:11.880 wasn't much else to do until he brought in the Ghostbusters. 378 00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:12.420 I mean. 379 00:20:27.779 --> 00:20:29.880 I mean, so there's that. 380 00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:31.619 There is, there is that. 381 00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:35.279 And there's some kind of character development going on there in 382 00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:40.019 that tartar scene, but the whole point of the episode is just that 383 00:20:40.019 --> 00:20:42.059 sort of the piratiness of it. 384 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:43.859 And so that's not there. 385 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:48.839 You take the least pirate pirate out of the plot for a while so 386 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:51.539 that they can hang around the TARDIS in a way that doesn't go 387 00:20:51.539 --> 00:20:52.140 anywhere. 388 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:55.079 Like it doesn't seem to develop the plot any further. 389 00:20:55.140 --> 00:20:58.500 It does just seem to be marking time and I just think it's 390 00:20:58.500 --> 00:20:59.700 probably a mistake. 391 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:03.720 And then there's the disappearance of Lee Ross. 392 00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:07.500 Now, James, you didn't notice that. 393 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:08.279 Is that right? 394 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:13.319 Yeah, look, I just, um, I thought that she was just a really 395 00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:15.000 efficient killer mermaid. 396 00:21:15.059 --> 00:21:17.339 Like, she just killed him between cuts. 397 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:21.240 Yeah And that's clearly what happened. 398 00:21:21.299 --> 00:21:24.839 But we're left in the arsenal with him threatening them. 399 00:21:24.900 --> 00:21:28.740 There's conflict between him and Toby, and then suddenly the next 400 00:21:28.740 --> 00:21:30.240 time we come back, he's gone. 401 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:34.319 So there was something happening there, some kind of conflict 402 00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:37.440 which looked like it was set up as being important, and then it 403 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:38.460 disappears completely. 404 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:43.380 And they've clearly edited it because Mulligan's disappearance was 405 00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:46.259 sort of similar or something, and I think James, maybe you even 406 00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:50.339 kind of thought that that was Lee Ross disappearing through the 407 00:21:50.339 --> 00:21:50.700 door. 408 00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:58.740 But in any case, it was sacrificed for the overall plot arc 409 00:21:58.740 --> 00:21:59.460 right? 410 00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:05.099 And so what's gone into this episode, when it's moved up, it's 411 00:22:05.099 --> 00:22:07.259 exchanged with night terrors in the running order. 412 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:08.099 Am I right about that? 413 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:08.880 Yes. 414 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.599 And so it is now a pre-gangers episode. 415 00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:16.859 And so we have to have the eye patch lady appearing to kind of 416 00:22:16.859 --> 00:22:20.400 continue with that plot thread, but that doesn't take very long. 417 00:22:20.460 --> 00:22:22.019 That's about 30 seconds probably. 418 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:23.400 That's right. 419 00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:24.240 I timed it. 420 00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:26.039 Like I went, this is a 22nd scene. 421 00:22:26.099 --> 00:22:28.619 It doesn't, like, you know, it's seen such a feeble excuse. 422 00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:33.240 But what else goes on at the end of the episode is a bit longer 423 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:38.880 where we have an ending to this episode that is essentially there 424 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:42.299 for the people who have forgotten how last week's episode ended 425 00:22:42.299 --> 00:22:45.779 because last week's episode ended exactly the same way. 426 00:22:46.140 --> 00:22:51.599 With Amy and Rory going, oh, we mustn't tell the doctor that we 427 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:52.440 saw him die. 428 00:22:52.500 --> 00:22:56.640 And the doctor looking at his screen going, we can't tell Amy that 429 00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.819 she is and simultaneously isn't pregnant. 430 00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:04.079 And that's exactly how the previous episode ended. 431 00:23:04.140 --> 00:23:08.700 And next week we're going to pick up with a scene where Amy and 432 00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:11.400 Rory discussed the fact that they saw the doctor die. 433 00:23:11.460 --> 00:23:16.259 I just don't see that that scene, which is clearly what ate up the 434 00:23:16.259 --> 00:23:19.259 running time that saw Lee Ross edited out. 435 00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:21.900 I don't know why that's there. you know. 436 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.220 Lee Ross, he is absolutely the best player in this. 437 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:27.119 He's great number. 438 00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:31.079 Johnny Spandrel, guest of the podcast, and possible friend of the 439 00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:31.500 podcast. 440 00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:35.640 Mentioned this in his in his random Hoonist thing when he talks 441 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:42.059 about the jumping of the editing to fit in, um, you know, this 442 00:23:42.059 --> 00:23:44.099 anodyne plot line. 443 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.339 It's meant to be jigging us up, isn't it, for every single week 444 00:23:47.339 --> 00:23:51.000 but I'm actually finding it a bit trying to drive a mini moke when 445 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:54.420 you've never tried a manual gearbox before. 446 00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:57.539 I just keep getting stuck and I don't care. 447 00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:00.359 And that's my real problem with the season. 448 00:24:00.420 --> 00:24:02.700 I know we'll probably get to this further on, but yeah, is she 449 00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:03.119 pregnant? 450 00:24:03.180 --> 00:24:04.200 Is she not pregnant? 451 00:24:04.259 --> 00:24:07.500 I don't know that things that are so personal to the characters 452 00:24:07.500 --> 00:24:09.779 really work in this situation. 453 00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:13.680 It's too big an event to make such lightness of. 454 00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:17.759 Yeah, I think that we will definitely be getting onto that too 455 00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:21.900 probably. at the, you know, at the end of this sort of 1st half of 456 00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:24.480 the season at the kind of mid-season cliffhanger. 457 00:24:24.539 --> 00:24:27.119 But I agree with you exactly, Richard. 458 00:24:27.180 --> 00:24:28.740 I think that's the problem with that plot. 459 00:24:28.859 --> 00:24:32.519 But, you know, people complain that the plot is too complicated 460 00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:35.880 but here we have a situation where we're seeing things that we've 461 00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:39.839 seen before and I don't know why we have to see them again. 462 00:24:39.900 --> 00:24:45.480 We won't get Madame Cavaria next week, but she will reappear in 463 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:47.099 the gangers 2 parter, I think. 464 00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:48.420 Am I right? 465 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:49.980 I can't remember. 466 00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:51.720 But we just didn't need it. 467 00:24:51.779 --> 00:24:55.440 And it wrecks the episode to some degree, I think. 468 00:24:55.500 --> 00:24:57.720 Can you explain something to me? 469 00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:01.619 When the doctor realises what's going on with the siren and they 470 00:25:01.619 --> 00:25:03.059 all cut themselves simultaneously? 471 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:04.259 They all get taken. 472 00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:05.099 All 3 of them. 473 00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:07.559 Why don't they all get put into like on the beds and everything 474 00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:07.980 like that? 475 00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:11.400 What's the, can you, like, everybody else seems to be connected to 476 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:12.660 it and unconscious, but they're not. 477 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:14.579 Yes, yeah. 478 00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:16.079 Okay. 479 00:25:16.140 --> 00:25:17.400 So, all right. 480 00:25:17.460 --> 00:25:21.720 The very, very 1st time I think that we've had a medical device 481 00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:28.619 out of control, instead of a villain, is in the vastly superior 482 00:25:28.619 --> 00:25:30.779 empty child doctor dances. 483 00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:34.619 Although Vira goes a bit AWOL on Nertha Beacon. 484 00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:45.240 And that, everyone agrees that that story is absolutely 485 00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:46.200 tremendous. 486 00:25:46.259 --> 00:25:52.259 But you don't actually need to push very hard before realising 487 00:25:52.259 --> 00:25:56.759 that the Chula ambulances, medical technology and the nano genes 488 00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:03.420 are really just doing whatever it is that we need in order to get 489 00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:04.200 the plot to work. 490 00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:08.579 In order for us to get to that big climax at the end, where Nancy 491 00:26:08.579 --> 00:26:12.599 tells Jamie, that she's his mother, right? 492 00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:15.599 The only other reason the Chula ambulance behaves like that is so 493 00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:17.460 that we can get creepy gas mask monsters. 494 00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:19.319 So it's analysed human beings. 495 00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:24.059 It's decided because it's really not very good that this thing 496 00:26:24.059 --> 00:26:27.960 made out of rubber and metal is part of a normal functioning human 497 00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:31.259 being and that it goes rewriting people so that they're all like 498 00:26:31.259 --> 00:26:31.559 that. 499 00:26:31.619 --> 00:26:33.660 And none of that makes any sense. 500 00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:36.000 You get away with that once, I think. 501 00:26:36.059 --> 00:26:42.779 And here, what we have is a medical AI that's out of control that 502 00:26:42.779 --> 00:26:47.279 does whatever it needs to do to look like a spooky, stroppy 503 00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:51.480 homicidal mermaid in the 1st half of the story, and then to 504 00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:55.019 suddenly unexpectedly reveal itself to be a medical device at the 505 00:26:55.019 --> 00:26:55.319 end. 506 00:26:55.380 --> 00:27:00.539 And the other thing about that is that who cares? 507 00:27:02.819 --> 00:27:05.279 We have no villain now. 508 00:27:05.339 --> 00:27:06.900 We have nothing to overcome. 509 00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:09.119 We found out that it's a medical thing. 510 00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:12.720 We sign a form and then we escape. 511 00:27:12.779 --> 00:27:20.819 And so it's so undramatic and so, so tedious and it has absolutely 512 00:27:20.819 --> 00:27:24.000 nothing to do with the piratry in the 1st half of the episode 513 00:27:24.599 --> 00:27:27.900 except the captain does get to fly the ship at the end. 514 00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:30.480 I mean, obviously he's just a genius at space technology. 515 00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:34.740 That's kind of what the scene in the TARDIS was for, wasn't it? 516 00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:37.440 It's like my ship and your ship aren't that different. 517 00:27:37.500 --> 00:27:39.720 The astrolabe, you know, the all of that. 518 00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:42.779 I get it, but I don't care. just don't care. 519 00:27:43.859 --> 00:27:45.299 Yeah. 520 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:46.259 Yeah. 521 00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:50.700 A very slim premise is taken at 90 degrees and shoved down a space 522 00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:52.380 corridor and then we left with the results. 523 00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:59.339 You know, I think it's, I think it's, um, Xander, who sort of 524 00:27:59.339 --> 00:28:04.500 makes the point that in underworld, the Golden Fleece is guarded 525 00:28:04.500 --> 00:28:08.519 by a dragon, you know, like a worm or something like that. 526 00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:15.660 And when the doctor meets the version of that in underworld, the 527 00:28:15.660 --> 00:28:19.140 exciting science fiction version of that in underworld, it's 528 00:28:19.140 --> 00:28:22.980 actually vastly less interesting than a dragon because it's just a 529 00:28:22.980 --> 00:28:25.680 sort of CSO tunnel that he floats up. 530 00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:29.099 You know, the invisible dragon, so we don't have to pay to realise 531 00:28:29.099 --> 00:28:29.460 them. 532 00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:30.839 They're terrible, you know. 533 00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:32.700 And I think that that's what we get here. 534 00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:36.539 We're promised pirates and we get space corridors and we don't 535 00:28:36.539 --> 00:28:37.920 just get space corridors. 536 00:28:37.980 --> 00:28:42.900 We get the cheapest, most low effort space corridors that the show 537 00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:44.940 has done in an incredibly long time. 538 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:50.160 They might as well have just been in like one of Ed Thomas's 539 00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:51.000 warehouses. 540 00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:53.400 I think they may as well. 541 00:28:53.460 --> 00:28:57.240 They may as well have been in, you know, a spaceship from season 542 00:28:57.240 --> 00:28:57.960 17. 543 00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:03.240 Like they're poor and they're cheap and they're visually... is 544 00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:04.019 exactly the same, yeah. 545 00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:07.440 They should be trapped in hyperspace forever. 546 00:29:08.700 --> 00:29:11.940 But the stones of blood pulls that off so much better. 547 00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:14.279 Yes, yes, exactly. 548 00:29:14.339 --> 00:29:17.339 That spaceship is visually interesting in a way that this is not 549 00:29:17.339 --> 00:29:18.480 in any way. 550 00:29:18.539 --> 00:29:20.819 You're doing a top ramp, Nathan. 551 00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:23.160 No, sorry. 552 00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:23.819 No, not at all. 553 00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:24.839 Not at all. 554 00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:29.039 You know, this is like a 5 out of 10 to a six. 555 00:29:29.099 --> 00:29:33.660 Like, this is bad. bad news and this is not my least favourite 556 00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:34.619 episode of the season. 557 00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:37.140 I was wondering when we get your rating. 558 00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:43.980 It says beautiful directorial talent in the beginning, the lovely 559 00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:47.099 shot of the TARDIS materialising as a reflection in the water. 560 00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:48.779 It's just gorgeous. 561 00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:50.880 There's some really lovely visual moments. 562 00:29:50.940 --> 00:29:54.599 And then you realise that the problem is that we're making a 563 00:29:54.599 --> 00:29:57.779 television series that's got to be crammed into a certain time 564 00:29:57.779 --> 00:30:02.279 slot and made in a certain order and we lose what makes it work. 565 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:07.319 See, you know, all of the below deck scenes are actually in studio 566 00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:08.400 at upper boat. 567 00:30:08.460 --> 00:30:10.319 That that's not the ship. 568 00:30:10.380 --> 00:30:10.920 Yes. 569 00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:11.940 Right. 570 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:13.319 I mean, I think they look great. 571 00:30:13.380 --> 00:30:15.119 I mean, they look tremendous. 572 00:30:15.180 --> 00:30:19.140 That, the set for the, uh, what we are now calling the powder room 573 00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:24.359 um, is is stunning and detailed, the set of Avery's quarters looks 574 00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:24.660 great. 575 00:30:24.779 --> 00:30:29.279 You know, all of that stuff is incredibly good, but they decide to 576 00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:30.000 throw it all away. 577 00:30:30.059 --> 00:30:32.880 They're not confident enough to make it the setting for an entire 578 00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:33.359 episode. 579 00:30:33.660 --> 00:30:36.240 It's like Jody's 2nd episode. 580 00:30:36.299 --> 00:30:40.019 It looks parts of this look absolutely stunning, but that does not 581 00:30:40.019 --> 00:30:41.519 save a story. 582 00:30:41.579 --> 00:30:42.420 Do you know what I mean? 583 00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:43.500 No. 584 00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:47.220 But imagine if the spaceship had looked like the spaceship in the 585 00:30:47.220 --> 00:30:51.539 Saranga conundrum, you know, that if it had been a real contrast 586 00:30:51.539 --> 00:30:55.980 to what we've what we'd seen, but instead it's just lit with the 587 00:30:55.980 --> 00:30:59.759 same sort of greeny colour palette and stuff like that, it's it's 588 00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:00.420 boring. 589 00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:01.859 It's just visually dull. 590 00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:03.299 And cheap as hell. 591 00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:06.720 I'm still going with the liquid environment thing. 592 00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:11.400 I want the threat to have been proper, not just ostensible because 593 00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:13.680 it's the podcast that we use ostensible every episode. 594 00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:19.740 I would have liked, maybe they'd have to transmogrify into liquid 595 00:31:19.740 --> 00:31:20.819 form. 596 00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:23.039 So that they do in die in a way. 597 00:31:23.099 --> 00:31:26.099 I don't know how you get the doctor and Amy out of that and Rory 598 00:31:26.099 --> 00:31:26.880 but it doesn't really matter. 599 00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:30.900 But the idea of the alien, just being in a space set. 600 00:31:30.900 --> 00:31:34.140 With, with focussing. 601 00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:35.039 Yeah, exactly. 602 00:31:35.099 --> 00:31:37.980 I would have liked that there is some sacrifice in changing over 603 00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:39.000 to that other world. 604 00:31:39.059 --> 00:31:43.859 And no, and they do fly, maybe they fly around in a big, in an 605 00:31:43.859 --> 00:31:46.319 universe in, they have to give up their bodies. 606 00:31:46.380 --> 00:31:50.220 It becomes a little bit, a little bit woo woo, a little bit sad, a 607 00:31:50.220 --> 00:31:52.859 little bit, yeah, because the fact that they're still pirates in 608 00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:56.220 the same gear on a space bridge. 609 00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:56.700 Yeah. 610 00:31:57.240 --> 00:31:59.819 But again, that would have been great. 611 00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:03.119 That would have been more fun if it had been gleaming white 612 00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:08.279 futuristic corridors, but you have sort of scurvy, filthy pirates 613 00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:08.519 you know. 614 00:32:08.579 --> 00:32:12.539 Yeah, yeah, you've got pirates kind of flying the enterprise 615 00:32:12.539 --> 00:32:13.559 around the galaxy. 616 00:32:13.619 --> 00:32:15.839 That would have been actually a lot more fun. 617 00:32:15.900 --> 00:32:20.579 But instead, you've got them in the same grungy ass corridors that 618 00:32:20.579 --> 00:32:23.579 they were in on the spaceship who cares, you know, it's just not 619 00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:24.119 that interesting. 620 00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:26.099 I don't just say it. 621 00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:28.200 Like, I mean, if this hadn't kept its same position in the season 622 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:34.079 and not had to go like the re-edits, like coming after quite a 623 00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:37.200 strong two-parter to begin with, maybe we might think a little bit 624 00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:39.960 more of it, like if it had been placed a bit later on in the 625 00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:43.500 season, like, you know, rather than here, it's wedged between what 626 00:32:43.500 --> 00:32:46.859 I think is a good 2 partner and the doctor's wife, which I adore 627 00:32:46.859 --> 00:32:47.160 right? 628 00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:50.819 So for me, it's sort of, there's a bit of that going on too, I 629 00:32:50.819 --> 00:32:51.240 have to say. 630 00:32:51.299 --> 00:32:52.559 Yeah. 631 00:32:52.619 --> 00:32:56.819 The other thing too, Nathan, you were saying, and you've said a 632 00:32:56.819 --> 00:32:59.220 number of times, like, you know, from this point forward, like the 633 00:32:59.220 --> 00:33:01.859 writers are now writing for Matt Smith, and they're purposely 634 00:33:01.859 --> 00:33:05.039 writing eccentric things for him to do, and I'm really beginning 635 00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:08.460 to pick up on it in this episode, like ultra-accentive, lots of 636 00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:12.119 throwaway lines and asides, and this is something that I'm seeing 637 00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:14.640 a lot more, and I think early on in the episode it works really 638 00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:14.880 well. 639 00:33:14.940 --> 00:33:19.140 Later on, there's that whole alien bogies joke, which I just think 640 00:33:19.140 --> 00:33:21.240 falls completely flat for me. 641 00:33:21.299 --> 00:33:24.420 It's another thing that really just gets to me and I just kind of 642 00:33:24.420 --> 00:33:25.619 think, oh, really? 643 00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:27.900 Like that, probably think it's the best thing ever. 644 00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:28.500 But, you know. 645 00:33:28.619 --> 00:33:31.559 Do you know who sells that is Karen? 646 00:33:31.619 --> 00:33:37.619 So when he wipes his hand on Karen's jacket and she does this look 647 00:33:37.619 --> 00:33:40.859 which is like, this is literally the kind of crap I have to put up 648 00:33:40.859 --> 00:33:43.079 with from this idiot all the time. 649 00:33:43.140 --> 00:33:46.559 Like, it's really quite subtle, but it's perfect. 650 00:33:46.619 --> 00:33:49.019 She absolutely makes that joke work. 651 00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:51.420 But I agree, the alien bogies thing. 652 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:54.180 It's like bumpy wumpy a couple of weeks ago. 653 00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:59.160 Like, it is, I think, leaning too much into that sort of stuff 654 00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:04.200 whereas the genius of Matt is the spin that he gives on new things 655 00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:05.579 that you give him to do. 656 00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:12.179 And so he is starting maybe at this point to become a little bit 657 00:34:12.179 --> 00:34:15.719 of an impression of himself. 658 00:34:16.500 --> 00:34:19.980 I'm going to say, I, and it's not a bad thing. 659 00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:20.760 I do agree with you. 660 00:34:20.820 --> 00:34:23.579 That's the one thing that I picked up on a number of episodes this 661 00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:23.940 season. 662 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:28.079 I know I'm jumping ahead, but I just began to notice it more and 663 00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:28.980 stuff like that. 664 00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:32.519 And this was the 1st time I kind of thought, oh, That's what 665 00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:33.000 you're doing. 666 00:34:33.059 --> 00:34:36.300 This is, I don't want to say this is the David Tenant shtick. 667 00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:38.159 It's like, this is your default, you know? 668 00:34:38.219 --> 00:34:41.039 And I'm sorry to sort of be putting it into this episode because I 669 00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:44.219 think Matt's great and I really love him as the doctor, but it's 670 00:34:44.219 --> 00:34:45.539 just something that I observed. 671 00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:02.639 Can I have another rant about that horrible CPR scene and having 672 00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:04.739 like, Rory lying there dead in the TARDIS? 673 00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:08.400 Like, they then transport him from the Sick Bay into the Tartars 674 00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:12.179 just so we can do that there, like, for no apparent reason. 675 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:13.739 It just annoys me so much. 676 00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:16.860 It's just like we don't know how to end this and this is what 677 00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:17.519 we're going to do. 678 00:35:17.579 --> 00:35:20.579 It's utterly pretend drama. 679 00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:22.440 There's no drama here at all. 680 00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:28.500 So the doctor doesn't do it and doesn't cure him for literally no 681 00:35:28.500 --> 00:35:29.219 reason at all. 682 00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.219 It's just so that we get Amy to do it. 683 00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:36.000 He's standing there kind of biting his fingernails and stuff, not 684 00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:36.719 doing anything. 685 00:35:36.780 --> 00:35:40.860 You know, like in a few years time, he'll be replacing Ram's leg 686 00:35:40.860 --> 00:35:45.059 in the 1st episode of class, you know, or Nardol's whole body. 687 00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:50.219 Like, it's clear the doctor could have done this, but doesn't, and 688 00:35:50.219 --> 00:35:54.659 that's just so that we can have Amy do some acting for this 689 00:35:54.659 --> 00:35:55.079 scene. 690 00:35:55.139 --> 00:35:57.239 And there's no drama to it. 691 00:35:57.300 --> 00:35:59.099 We know that Rory's not going to die. 692 00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:00.960 Of course, it's not going to die. 693 00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:02.340 Everything's going to be okay. 694 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:04.380 No, it doesn't matter. 695 00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:08.400 It's absolute, it's the simulacrum of drama. 696 00:36:08.460 --> 00:36:10.559 It's utterly pretend. 697 00:36:10.619 --> 00:36:12.420 There's no stakes. 698 00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:14.579 Everyone's overwrought. 699 00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:19.199 Karen's acting her socks off in a scene that doesn't matter in any 700 00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:19.619 way. 701 00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:21.539 I think it's dreadful. 702 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:25.079 Oh my god, it's the lockdown of Doctor Who. 703 00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:31.260 You know, like to be fair, they couldn't have filmed that scene on 704 00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:35.039 one of those beds because they would have shaken too much. 705 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:42.719 Like, they gave, they gave the actors. a direction on those beds 706 00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:46.679 that please don't move too much and don't breathe too heavily 707 00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:52.019 because it would set up this sort of swaying motion of of the beds 708 00:36:52.019 --> 00:36:52.559 on the wires. 709 00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:54.059 It would have been more dramatic. 710 00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:58.380 That's the most movement you've seen in the 2nd half of the 711 00:36:58.380 --> 00:36:58.619 episode. 712 00:36:58.739 --> 00:37:03.599 Like a 70s executive desk toy with all the little crunch forks 713 00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:04.920 bouncing and fixed up. 714 00:37:04.980 --> 00:37:05.639 Exactly. 715 00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:10.320 We needed a Vivian Fay in this. 716 00:37:10.380 --> 00:37:13.920 We needed like, you know, Lee Ross to actually be silver and be 717 00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:17.820 between both the ship and the spaceship or something. 718 00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:20.099 I don't know, not the stupid buddy hologram. 719 00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:21.179 I agree. 720 00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:22.920 It needed a villain. 721 00:37:22.980 --> 00:37:24.599 It needed something to overcome. 722 00:37:24.659 --> 00:37:29.519 Basically all that happened is they made a guess that everyone was 723 00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:33.239 being kept alive before they realised that she was a medical 724 00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:34.139 device. 725 00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:37.739 They appear and there's no threat. 726 00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:39.119 There's nothing to overcome. 727 00:37:39.179 --> 00:37:41.820 There's nothing clever to do. 728 00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:43.019 There is no one to defeat. 729 00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:47.760 Like, I just think that it makes for a dull story. 730 00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:52.019 And they're trying to do something dramatic at the end, but it's 731 00:37:52.019 --> 00:37:57.360 so meretricious and so kind of specious that no one cares. 732 00:37:57.420 --> 00:37:58.980 Like, how could you possibly care? 733 00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:01.739 I think it's a great shame. 734 00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:05.880 I think it is a great shame because there's some great stuff early 735 00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:09.480 on, but it all just craters spectacularly at the end. 736 00:38:09.539 --> 00:38:12.780 But you know what, for me, is the worst thing is the fact that, you 737 00:38:12.780 --> 00:38:16.019 know, I like this episode more than the Gangers episode and Night 738 00:38:16.019 --> 00:38:20.219 Terrace. you know, it's for me, it's not the worst of the season 739 00:38:20.219 --> 00:38:24.179 and but last year we had some problems with a number of episodes 740 00:38:24.179 --> 00:38:25.440 one I'll write off. 741 00:38:25.500 --> 00:38:29.099 But ending stuck, or there were minor things. 742 00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:30.780 This, you know, it's so right, Nathan. 743 00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:32.099 It just, this just craters. 744 00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:36.659 Like, a lot of us didn't like the ending of, say, victory of the 745 00:38:36.659 --> 00:38:39.900 Daleks, which is diffusing a bomb, you know, it's a little bit 746 00:38:39.900 --> 00:38:40.380 similar. 747 00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:43.500 You've got someone lying there and we're trying to kind of make 748 00:38:43.500 --> 00:38:44.699 them better or whatever. 749 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:49.440 But there are kind of, there are interesting things there. 750 00:38:49.500 --> 00:38:51.900 You know, there's some character stuff there. 751 00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:57.360 There's some stuff about, you know, grief and hurt and identity 752 00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:01.019 and it's all very kind of thin and underdone, but there is at 753 00:39:01.019 --> 00:39:04.980 least something going on there, which is very different from this 754 00:39:04.980 --> 00:39:09.000 which is just Rory's going to die, and Amy really doesn't want him 755 00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:09.360 to. 756 00:39:09.420 --> 00:39:13.440 And that's absolutely in no way interesting, I think. 757 00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:15.300 Yeah, no, I agree. 758 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:18.000 Like, I mean, the 1st time through that ending of victory at the 759 00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:19.139 Daleks really irritated me. 760 00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:21.539 But coming back to it, I actually like it a lot more, whereas 761 00:39:21.539 --> 00:39:23.400 coming back to this, it just irritates me more. 762 00:39:51.059 --> 00:39:54.539 Well, listen, that's all we have time for this week. 763 00:39:54.659 --> 00:39:58.440 We'll be back next week for our regular meeting of the Suran Jones 764 00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:01.380 Appreciation Society in the Doctor's Wife. 765 00:40:01.500 --> 00:40:05.400 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts 766 00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:08.219 and you can keep up with us at flight through entirety on Facebook 767 00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:11.639 at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website 768 00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:14.579 flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find links to our other 769 00:40:14.579 --> 00:40:18.000 podcasts, Bondfinger, and Jody into Terror. 770 00:40:18.059 --> 00:40:22.679 Until next time, remember that nothing is more important than 771 00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:27.119 family, apart from your collection of Blu-ray box sets and day 772 00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:28.139 pole figurines. 773 00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:30.840 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 774 00:40:30.900 --> 00:40:32.039 Good night. 775 00:40:32.099 --> 00:40:33.059 See you soon. 776 00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:34.860 Keep your water wings on. 777 00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:41.460 That was Flight Through Entirety. 778 00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:43.920 Sorry, Todd Building, Nathan Bottomley, James Selwood, and Richard 779 00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:44.460 Stone. 780 00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:46.679 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lan. 781 00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:50.219 This episode, everyone is now sporting a beard was recorded on the 782 00:40:50.219 --> 00:40:53.820 8th of August 2021 and released on the 26th of September. 783 00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:01.079 If any of you know how to get in touch with Tenaya Miller's people 784 00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:02.280 can you please DM me? 785 00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:06.900 There's a fantastic new job opportunity opening up in 2023, and I 786 00:41:06.900 --> 00:41:08.400 think she'd be just perfect for it. 787 00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:17.400 Do you think we've got an out there? 788 00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:20.099 We're at 45 minutes. 789 00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:24.659 I don't think we need to do, like, an hour long episode of this 790 00:41:24.659 --> 00:41:27.119 like we did for the Impossible. doesn't deserve it. 791 00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:33.239 Did you know that, I mean, this, the plot of this is inspired by 792 00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:37.619 an actual mermaid story from Cornwall. 793 00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:40.380 Who cares? 794 00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:42.300 And it turned out it was a seal. 795 00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:48.000 It was a seal all along that was kidnapping the pirates. 796 00:41:48.539 --> 00:41:49.800 James, that could go at the beginning. 797 00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:50.880 Do you know anything more about it? 798 00:41:50.940 --> 00:42:00.420 Um, It's a Cornish legend, um, The Mermaid of Zenor, or Xenor, or 799 00:42:00.420 --> 00:42:01.920 Castria. 800 00:42:01.980 --> 00:42:03.239 No, um... 801 00:42:03.239 --> 00:42:08.400 It's obviously a very... 802 00:42:08.460 --> 00:42:09.780 No, I mean, that's a different... 803 00:42:09.780 --> 00:42:11.880 That's all I've got. 804 00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:14.460 I don't think that's of much use to the episode. 805 00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:16.380 Yeah, it's all right. 806 00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:17.940 It's a tag. 807 00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:18.539 All right. 808 00:42:18.599 --> 00:42:19.679 I'm going to do the out track. 809 00:42:19.739 --> 00:42:21.659 There you go. 810 00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:25.260 Look, what a sweet, precious angel. 811 00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:28.619 Until she suffocates you in your sleep. 812 00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:31.019 Yeah, well, that's cats. 813 00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:32.039 All right, here goes. 814 00:42:32.699 --> 00:42:36.119 Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.