WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:32:01 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.840 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety 2 00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:43.859 the only Doctor Who podcast hosted by the sort of boys that give 3 00:00:43.859 --> 00:00:45.479 motorcars pet names. 4 00:00:45.539 --> 00:00:47.219 I'm Nathan. 5 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:50.700 I'm James I'm Stephen. and I'm Dan. 6 00:00:50.820 --> 00:00:54.840 Well, this week's episode features special guest writer Neil 7 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:58.979 Gaiman, the famous comic book writer slash novelist who put the 8 00:00:58.979 --> 00:01:03.359 sand into the sandman, the grave into the graveyard book, and the 9 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:05.700 nightmare into nightmare in silver. 10 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:09.959 But that's all in the past or possibly the future, but in the 11 00:01:09.959 --> 00:01:12.659 present, let's talk about the doctor's wife. 12 00:01:39.719 --> 00:01:45.120 So, this started life as a whiteboard in John Nathan Turner's 13 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:46.439 office, is that right? 14 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:51.659 Yeah, wasn't it meant to be the Caves of Andrazani, but it was a 15 00:01:51.659 --> 00:01:54.420 way of JNT trying to find out who the mole was in the BBC office. 16 00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:54.840 Is that right? 17 00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:59.760 And of course, the thing about it was that it was a title that 18 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:04.620 would have been completely impossible in Classic Who or 80s Doctor 19 00:02:04.620 --> 00:02:05.340 Who in particular. 20 00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:08.819 You could never, ever, ever have even sort of countenance the idea 21 00:02:08.819 --> 00:02:11.580 of the doctor having a wife. 22 00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:17.400 And so it was an absolutely kind of obviously fake episode title, I 23 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:17.699 think. 24 00:02:18.180 --> 00:02:22.319 I love that there's a there's a mole in the BBC office. 25 00:02:22.379 --> 00:02:22.800 Did they catch? 26 00:02:22.860 --> 00:02:23.639 Did they catch her? 27 00:02:23.699 --> 00:02:25.620 But that's lots of history. 28 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:26.400 I think so. 29 00:02:26.460 --> 00:02:30.900 Well, like, I mean, you couldn't imagine him having a wife until 30 00:02:30.900 --> 00:02:33.479 she left the show and then they got married just a few months 31 00:02:33.479 --> 00:02:33.840 later. 32 00:02:33.900 --> 00:02:42.060 That's right This is, I think, sort of fairly universally liked 33 00:02:42.060 --> 00:02:42.960 isn't it? 34 00:02:43.020 --> 00:02:43.560 by everyone. 35 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:45.360 Certainly by me. 36 00:02:45.419 --> 00:02:49.860 I think it's one of those great totemic high points, I guess, in 37 00:02:49.860 --> 00:02:51.599 the Stephen Moffat era for me. 38 00:02:51.659 --> 00:02:54.539 It does help, obviously, having Neil Gaiman on board, but I also 39 00:02:54.539 --> 00:02:56.699 feel like it's the combination between the 2 of them. 40 00:02:56.759 --> 00:03:00.840 Moffatt's obviously edited this and sent a lot of notes back 41 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:04.020 according to a lot of the sort of information around this episode 42 00:03:04.020 --> 00:03:06.900 to Gamer to make sure that it does actually sing and it really 43 00:03:06.900 --> 00:03:07.080 does. 44 00:03:07.259 --> 00:03:11.639 Just a really good, um, just just starts with a really great idea 45 00:03:11.699 --> 00:03:13.199 and goes on from there. 46 00:03:13.259 --> 00:03:14.280 It's very imaginative. 47 00:03:14.340 --> 00:03:17.759 The the sort of the settings very evocative, but they got a great 48 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:19.199 writer and it all came together. 49 00:03:19.259 --> 00:03:21.599 I feel like, with a cast and crew who are obviously having a great 50 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:21.780 time. 51 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:24.300 Oh, look, I love this story. 52 00:03:24.539 --> 00:03:28.080 We were having a conversation the other day, Nathan, about it 53 00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:35.219 being a little thin, but I can forgive its thinness, because it's 54 00:03:35.219 --> 00:03:41.280 just, it's so enjoyable and like this, um, so many rich characters 55 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:47.939 and actors in it, um, and I, yeah, no, I, I, I, unconditionally 56 00:03:47.939 --> 00:03:48.479 love this story. 57 00:03:48.900 --> 00:03:51.539 And mainly just for Saran Jones. 58 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:53.039 Yeah, isn't she great? 59 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:58.259 She, um, of course, turns up in Sarah Jane Adventures doing just 60 00:03:58.259 --> 00:04:04.259 the most spectacular turn as the Mona Lisa, uh, running around an 61 00:04:04.259 --> 00:04:08.580 art gallery in Cardiff, presumably with a giant space gun. 62 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:10.800 And come on, it's an ealing. 63 00:04:10.860 --> 00:04:11.460 It's healing. 64 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:12.180 That's right. 65 00:04:12.659 --> 00:04:16.740 She really is absolutely extraordinarily good. 66 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:22.199 And I think in a way, the episode really kind of hinges on how 67 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:23.939 good her performance is. 68 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:28.199 And so it's perfect casting and really just a sublimely great 69 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:28.980 performance. 70 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:32.879 I think she's given like, you know, the lines that she's given up 71 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:36.480 and the direction that she's given really sets her up, but it's 72 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:38.100 she really, she just nails that performance. 73 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:41.699 It's just sort of a high strong, and then laconic, and then 74 00:04:41.699 --> 00:04:44.939 there's the hair and the dress, and it all goes so well together, I 75 00:04:44.939 --> 00:04:45.600 think she's just wonderful. 76 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:49.199 Seems to me like such a gaming character. 77 00:04:49.259 --> 00:04:52.019 I'm not sure whether it's more for a game and sort of bringing 78 00:04:52.019 --> 00:04:52.920 this to the fore. 79 00:04:52.980 --> 00:04:56.939 But, you know, that sort of otherworldly kookiness, which is just 80 00:04:56.939 --> 00:04:58.019 yeah, she plays it wonderfully. 81 00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:00.899 But I think the direction to her was to sort of play it like the 82 00:05:00.899 --> 00:05:03.600 doctor, which I think is really quite evident. 83 00:05:03.660 --> 00:05:08.399 I sort of read that online to sort of do a bit of research for 84 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:08.639 this. 85 00:05:08.699 --> 00:05:11.699 And then I read, I watched the episode back a 2nd time and it was 86 00:05:11.699 --> 00:05:14.579 like, actually, she's very much playing it like Matt Smith, that 87 00:05:14.579 --> 00:05:18.959 sort of otherworldly kookiness that they sort of bring both bring 88 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:20.220 to the performances in this one. 89 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:20.759 I love it. 90 00:05:20.819 --> 00:05:21.839 I've got that. 91 00:05:21.899 --> 00:05:24.420 I've actually got that written so many times in my notes I've just 92 00:05:24.420 --> 00:05:24.779 got written. 93 00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:30.360 That's so gaming. sort of the hair piled on top of a head and the 94 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:33.420 sort of the black lace and that sort of, I guess, that sort of Tim 95 00:05:33.420 --> 00:05:37.259 Burtoney, Helena Bonham Carter type type character, you know, that 96 00:05:37.259 --> 00:05:38.040 we see so many times. 97 00:05:38.100 --> 00:05:38.459 She's great. 98 00:05:38.519 --> 00:05:43.680 I'm not as familiar with Gaiman's work, I think, perhaps as I 99 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:51.420 should be, although we assigned the graveyard book to year 7 and 8 100 00:05:51.420 --> 00:05:55.319 at school and got all of the kids to read it as a kind of big sort 101 00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:58.920 of book week book club thing, and I thought it was, you know 102 00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:01.379 absolutely spectacular and adorable. 103 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:07.680 But I get the sense that, that the setting itself is a bit gaminy 104 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:11.279 like a sort of trash heap plug hole at the end of the universe and 105 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:17.220 the characters like, like auntie an uncle and a nephew, that sort 106 00:06:17.220 --> 00:06:21.000 of technological junkyard, kind of slash graveyard that's kind of 107 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:24.240 like sort of semi-Victorian, but also a little bit cyberpunky 108 00:06:24.300 --> 00:06:25.560 pretty, that's quite gaming. 109 00:06:25.620 --> 00:06:28.860 I'm not, I haven't never really been a, not a huge gaming fan, but 110 00:06:28.860 --> 00:06:32.939 I've, his works, is also very familiar, kind of, his work is very 111 00:06:32.939 --> 00:06:36.120 familiar to me, and I've always got time for an old British goth. 112 00:06:38.459 --> 00:06:41.579 Says the man wearing the Joy Division T-shirt. 113 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:47.279 I've actually been reading the Sandman. 114 00:06:47.339 --> 00:06:48.240 Oh yeah. 115 00:06:48.300 --> 00:06:53.339 Because I'd never read it and there's a Netflix adaptation 116 00:06:53.339 --> 00:06:53.699 coming. 117 00:06:53.699 --> 00:06:57.000 And I was like, what is all the fuss about? 118 00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:00.779 It's, and it is, yeah, there are a lot of, there are a lot of 119 00:07:00.779 --> 00:07:05.639 gaming tropes in this story that are really evident in, like in 120 00:07:05.639 --> 00:07:07.259 some of his earliest writing. 121 00:07:07.379 --> 00:07:13.740 Like he does have a, a really clear voice that he brings to this. 122 00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:19.920 And so this isn't the 1st attempt that Moffat has made to get a 123 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:26.220 kind of big name writer in, and even next week, he's going to try 124 00:07:26.220 --> 00:07:26.819 it again. 125 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:28.620 So we've had Simon Nye. 126 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:30.000 We've had Richard Curtis. 127 00:07:30.060 --> 00:07:34.019 We're going to have Matthew Graham from Life on Mars next week. 128 00:07:34.259 --> 00:07:40.379 And he's done that in a way that, I think, has brought something 129 00:07:40.379 --> 00:07:43.019 to Doctor Who that it hasn't had before. 130 00:07:43.079 --> 00:07:45.480 I think Amy's choice is surprising. 131 00:07:45.540 --> 00:07:48.240 I think that Vincent and the doctor. 132 00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:52.680 Again, is the show kind of breaking new ground. 133 00:07:52.740 --> 00:07:57.779 And so I think it has been kind of a fairly productive approach. 134 00:07:58.500 --> 00:08:05.160 In a way, in a way, this is the 1st attempt. of him trying to 135 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:08.819 bring a big name writer onto the show because he commissioned him 136 00:08:08.819 --> 00:08:09.779 for series five. 137 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:11.040 Ah, yes. 138 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:14.279 This was actually supposed to take the slot that eventually went 139 00:08:14.279 --> 00:08:18.720 to the lodger, but they had to push it because of the cost of 140 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:21.120 Mounting this story was huge. 141 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:23.160 Right. 142 00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:25.620 So budgetary issues sort of meant that this got bumped to series 143 00:08:25.620 --> 00:08:26.160 6. 144 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:29.519 I wonder whether it actually doesn't fit better into series 5, um 145 00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:33.899 and particularly if it was so late on into the series, it sort of 146 00:08:33.899 --> 00:08:36.600 foreshadows, you know, there's there's a, um, it opens, of course 147 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:37.980 with hope in a box, doesn't it? 148 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:40.320 Um, and it ends in that in that way as well. 149 00:08:40.379 --> 00:08:41.759 And I just wonder whether that would have been a beautiful 150 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:45.720 thematic link through to the Pandorica, which obviously based on 151 00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:48.539 hope being the last thing in Pandora's box. 152 00:08:48.659 --> 00:08:50.159 I think it would have worked a little bit better. 153 00:08:50.220 --> 00:08:52.139 But this way kind of works as well because it sort of 154 00:08:52.139 --> 00:08:52.919 foreshadows. 155 00:08:52.980 --> 00:08:55.200 Here we have the doctor's wife, but of course we've got the 156 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:58.740 wedding of river song right at the end as well, which is also the 157 00:08:58.740 --> 00:08:59.399 doctor's wife. 158 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:01.080 So there's a nice little link there too. 159 00:09:08.460 --> 00:09:12.539 Despite all that gamanness, though, I reckon that I can detect 160 00:09:12.539 --> 00:09:14.519 Moffat's hand in the dialogue. 161 00:09:14.580 --> 00:09:19.080 I mean, I think the, you know, biting is like kissing only there's 162 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:22.259 a winner is absolutely classic Moffat. 163 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:26.279 And the explanation of the bubble universe where the doctor 164 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:31.320 explains it, and then, you know, someone takes up with that, and 165 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:35.039 then he says, no, it's not like that at all, but yes, if that 166 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:40.440 helps, which, you know, actually happened, I think last episode 167 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:41.159 didn't it? 168 00:09:41.220 --> 00:09:43.440 It seems to be a thing that he's doing. 169 00:09:43.500 --> 00:09:45.539 So it is very moffity still. 170 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:49.320 I think I read that Gaiman had a lot of trouble with the script 171 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:52.080 and because there were some budget cuts, they had to do some 172 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:54.779 rewrites and Moffat jumped in and did a whole bunch of that. 173 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:58.200 And I can't even, like, I get, there's some things in there they 174 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:00.360 did to, very clever things in there they did to save money. 175 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:04.019 Like, they sort of use those that corridor set. a bunch of times 176 00:10:04.019 --> 00:10:08.159 and they, I really like the, where they, they get house to speak 177 00:10:08.159 --> 00:10:10.799 for the 1st time just through the uncle and auntie characters 178 00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:14.279 which I think, and it's basically just a disembodied voice, but 179 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:16.740 it's just a clever way to save money, and then they've got the 180 00:10:16.740 --> 00:10:18.840 fabulous, fabulous Michael Sheen to do that voice. 181 00:10:18.899 --> 00:10:23.340 Uh, And then they um, then they get the Doctor Who experience and 182 00:10:23.340 --> 00:10:30.720 film, film on the, the, the, the, I can't even, but then you've 183 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:33.059 got things like that junkyard set and the whole, all of those, all 184 00:10:33.059 --> 00:10:34.259 of those sets are fabulous. 185 00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:35.220 Like they're so... 186 00:10:35.220 --> 00:10:37.740 Drunkyard set is a quarry. 187 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:39.179 Just the query. 188 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:41.700 It's amazingly well done. 189 00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:46.500 Like that giant looming kind of spaceship hulk over the place 190 00:10:46.500 --> 00:10:49.019 where the TARDIS arrives. 191 00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:50.940 And then later the hardest graveyard. 192 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:52.559 That is also a great again. 193 00:10:52.620 --> 00:10:55.860 But it's a quarry that they've kind of beefed up with CG in a 194 00:10:55.860 --> 00:10:57.179 really kind of effective way. 195 00:10:57.240 --> 00:10:59.940 I think it looks really good Yeah, with match shots. 196 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:01.440 And just filled it with crap. 197 00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:04.679 And it's so simple, but it just looks, it's really evocative. 198 00:11:04.740 --> 00:11:06.960 You buy it straight away and it's kind of there. 199 00:11:07.019 --> 00:11:10.320 They're kind of surrounded by detritus for the entire episode. 200 00:11:10.379 --> 00:11:12.539 And I think I think it's wonderful. 201 00:11:12.539 --> 00:11:13.320 Fabulous. 202 00:11:13.379 --> 00:11:15.600 Michael Pickwade is fantastic, isn't he? 203 00:11:15.659 --> 00:11:17.639 Oh, he's superb. 204 00:11:17.700 --> 00:11:18.059 Absolutely. 205 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:21.059 But I also think it's kind of what the 3 doctors was meant to look 206 00:11:21.059 --> 00:11:21.299 like. 207 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:25.740 And you're talking earlier about Moffatt's sort of trademark 208 00:11:25.740 --> 00:11:27.960 dialogue there, Nathan. 209 00:11:28.019 --> 00:11:31.860 Like, isn't that example of the bubble on the bubble, a bit like 210 00:11:31.860 --> 00:11:35.519 you know, the brigadier trying to surmise what the space lightning 211 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:37.740 is, and the doctor's saying, no, that's nothing like it at all, but 212 00:11:37.740 --> 00:11:38.279 if it helps. 213 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:42.539 It's obviously written by 2 Doctor Who fans. 214 00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:45.299 It is absolutely written by 2 Doctor Who fans. 215 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:47.279 And I think the story is that Moffat tells, you know, when they 216 00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:49.620 1st met, they were sort of skirting around each other, like, you 217 00:11:49.620 --> 00:11:52.320 know, lions in a cage trying to sort of suss each other out in 218 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:54.779 terms of Doctor Who fan, you know, levels. 219 00:11:54.779 --> 00:11:57.179 And it's obvious that these 2 have just been watching it since 220 00:11:57.179 --> 00:11:58.139 forever. 221 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:00.779 And, you know, things like the hypercubes. 222 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:01.440 Like, it's obvious. 223 00:12:01.500 --> 00:12:04.799 I think I've seen game and talk before about his love for Trout in 224 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:05.879 particular the war games. 225 00:12:05.940 --> 00:12:08.399 Like that, it's just straight from it, yeah. 226 00:12:08.460 --> 00:12:09.240 Well there you go. 227 00:12:09.299 --> 00:12:09.539 Yeah. 228 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:12.720 I mean, and it's just one of those things where it doesn't need to 229 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:16.620 be explained because it works perfectly within the confines 45 230 00:12:16.620 --> 00:12:19.440 minutes and for a new audience, but we see it and we just go, oh 231 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:19.980 my god. 232 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:23.399 They obviously love this show and they're making it you know 233 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:24.600 reinterpreting it for us. 234 00:12:24.659 --> 00:12:28.980 Well, yeah, the whole I'm sort of wandering around the corridors 235 00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:30.899 not necessarily the horror aspect, but they're wandering around 236 00:12:30.899 --> 00:12:35.159 the corridors and finding another console room is, like, you know 237 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:40.379 like admittedly completely lifted from master. 238 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:44.220 Of course it is, including the little shaving mirror on top of the 239 00:12:44.220 --> 00:12:48.779 lashed up console that they put together in the junkyard. 240 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:52.799 I think it's worth mentioning that that was the winner of a blue 241 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:55.440 Peter competition to design a TARDIS console. 242 00:12:55.500 --> 00:12:56.159 Yes. 243 00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:59.639 I didn't know that until I did a little bit of research. 244 00:12:59.700 --> 00:13:01.379 That's so adorable and it's really cool as well. 245 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:02.279 Yeah, yeah. 246 00:13:02.340 --> 00:13:06.899 But even even the setting, like even the planet setting, the house 247 00:13:06.899 --> 00:13:09.960 setting is a reference to an unearthly child. 248 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:15.539 It was a deliberate reference to the 1st story. set in a 249 00:13:15.539 --> 00:13:15.960 junkyard. 250 00:13:16.019 --> 00:13:17.340 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 251 00:13:17.399 --> 00:13:20.639 So the TARDIS in a junkyard, you know, it's kind of, it's super 252 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:21.299 iconic. 253 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:24.299 The other thing that I think that the story does really 254 00:13:24.299 --> 00:13:30.299 successfully is create a new version of the Time Lords in a way. 255 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:33.840 So Doctor Who hasn't had time lords because they've all been 256 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:34.500 destroyed. 257 00:13:34.620 --> 00:13:41.940 But here we get a sense of a kind of arrangement where there are a 258 00:13:41.940 --> 00:13:46.799 lot of time lords flying around the place in TARDIS and, you know 259 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:49.620 they get together for sort of drinking parties or something like 260 00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:49.799 that. 261 00:13:49.860 --> 00:13:53.700 Like the talk about the course there, you know, being a bad girl. 262 00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:57.179 Clearly they've been getting together and having a great time. 263 00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:02.340 And so it is a kind of pre-galafray conception of the time lords 264 00:14:02.340 --> 00:14:06.539 in the sense that all we know about the time lords by the time the 265 00:14:06.539 --> 00:14:10.080 the end of the war games comes along and they're introduced 266 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:16.440 properly and the show is ruined forever. is that there are time 267 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:20.519 lords like the monk and the doctor who have TARDises who travel 268 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:23.279 around sort of time and space doing things. 269 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:25.740 And so that's the version that we get. 270 00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:31.980 And I love that as a way of introducing the time lords to a new 271 00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:36.179 series audience who haven't had to sit through Mark of Infinity or 272 00:14:36.179 --> 00:14:36.419 something. 273 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:40.500 Like I think that's a much, much more fun conception of what the 274 00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:41.220 time lords are. 275 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:44.879 And my favourite thing about the time lord, the sort of the extra 276 00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:48.600 time lord stuff in this one is that he does they do the best thing 277 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:51.419 you can with it, which is you tease the time lords, you talk about 278 00:14:51.419 --> 00:14:54.179 the time lords, and then you don't bring any time lords into the 279 00:14:54.179 --> 00:14:54.419 show. 280 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:55.740 Don't go to California. 281 00:14:55.799 --> 00:15:00.240 And to introduce the idea of them changing gender for the 1st 282 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:00.600 time. 283 00:15:00.659 --> 00:15:01.320 Is this the 1st as well? 284 00:15:01.379 --> 00:15:02.159 Is this the 1st time? 285 00:15:02.220 --> 00:15:02.820 Because I noticed that. 286 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:04.379 I thought it was yeah, really cool. 287 00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:04.860 Yeah. 288 00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:08.159 And that whole conversation about the corsair, which is fun and 289 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:11.700 entertaining in itself and gives us some background into sort of 290 00:15:11.700 --> 00:15:15.240 Matt's character and it teaches us about the time lords, obviously 291 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:19.860 becomes a plot point when we see the auntie's arm comes from the 292 00:15:19.860 --> 00:15:23.639 corsair and now we start to see, in fact, what's really going on 293 00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:24.059 here. 294 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:28.379 That part where he opens up the cupboard and it's just a bunch of 295 00:15:28.379 --> 00:15:30.120 those mailboxes. 296 00:15:30.179 --> 00:15:33.299 It's just so so creepy and fun. 297 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:36.600 And at the same time, I breathe a huge sigh of relief because 298 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:40.860 we're not going to gala free. just, just, just, just a really 299 00:15:40.860 --> 00:15:41.580 wonderful moment for me. 300 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:42.120 I love that. 301 00:15:42.179 --> 00:15:45.299 Matt plays it incredibly well as well. 302 00:15:45.419 --> 00:15:50.759 Because he doesn't go the tenant route of chewing the scenery and 303 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:52.379 yelling at everyone. 304 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:56.220 It's very calm and very kind of frightening. 305 00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:59.580 That thing you gave me hope and took it away. 306 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:03.240 And that would make anyone dangerous, but he just says that 307 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:09.059 without kind of, you know, looking hugely, visibly over the top 308 00:16:09.059 --> 00:16:09.360 angry. 309 00:16:09.779 --> 00:16:13.860 Yeah, like he's, he's um, bottling it up. 310 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.559 It's uh, it's simmering beneath the surface. 311 00:16:16.620 --> 00:16:18.720 I think that's got to be a choice, right? 312 00:16:18.779 --> 00:16:22.740 Like to just get away from that kind of bug-eyed tenant hysteria. 313 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:25.080 I absolutely agree, Dan. 314 00:16:25.139 --> 00:16:27.480 I think, you know, I don't know whether it's conscious or not, but 315 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:30.419 the way that Matt Smith sort of naturally plays those lines and it 316 00:16:30.419 --> 00:16:33.299 happens again throughout, I think, his tenure, but even in this 317 00:16:33.299 --> 00:16:33.659 episode. 318 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:35.940 You know, Amy says to him, you want to be forgiven. 319 00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:39.179 And there's just this heartbreaking delivery where he says, don't 320 00:16:39.179 --> 00:16:39.659 we all? 321 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:44.399 It's such a different sort of take on the character in terms of 322 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:48.120 his relationship with the, you know, what he's done to his own 323 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:49.440 people and the time war. 324 00:16:49.500 --> 00:16:50.159 I think it's wonderful. 325 00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:52.919 I think he's superb, but it's also just a great, great way of 326 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.799 distancing this 11th doctor from the 10th doctor. 327 00:16:56.159 --> 00:17:00.419 I think Amy's response to that line is incredible because she 328 00:17:00.419 --> 00:17:04.380 clearly says yes without saying anything, like she clearly 329 00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:08.579 indicates that she understands where the doctor's coming from, but 330 00:17:08.579 --> 00:17:09.900 she just does it in a look. 331 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:15.779 And you know, people, you know, people underestimate Karen Gillen 332 00:17:15.779 --> 00:17:17.940 I think, and they're wrong to do so. 333 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:21.539 I think she does some really very subtle acting in this one. 334 00:17:22.019 --> 00:17:25.619 I think this is probably the 1st and maybe only time I'll do Matt 335 00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:27.660 Smith get to do a Matt Smith one with you guys. 336 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:31.500 But yeah, because I just really, so I wrote, Amy and Rory, one of 337 00:17:31.500 --> 00:17:34.019 my favourite combos, I know I know Rory's not like universally 338 00:17:34.019 --> 00:17:38.640 popular and not everyone likes the 2 of them, but for me, they're 339 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:41.640 just so, especially in this one, they are understated, and aside 340 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:44.519 from that whole, like Rory ageing, getting lost in a labyrinth 341 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:47.940 corridor is being controlled by an evil overmind thing, which is 342 00:17:47.940 --> 00:17:49.259 not my favourite part of the episode. 343 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:52.200 They are really, they are really good and subtle. 344 00:17:52.259 --> 00:17:55.079 And one of the things I love about Rory and Amy is they're very 345 00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:55.559 grounded. 346 00:17:55.619 --> 00:17:56.400 They ground the show. 347 00:17:56.460 --> 00:17:58.019 They're very, they're quite ordinary. 348 00:17:58.019 --> 00:18:01.140 Because, you know, we've had sort of Rose and Martha and people 349 00:18:01.140 --> 00:18:05.519 who are fabulous and excited and adventurous and they want to go 350 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:07.799 out and do things and then you've got one of my favourite things. 351 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:11.579 Rory says, once we're fuelled up, we're going to go, right? 352 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:13.680 Okay, we're going to get back in the charters and go. 353 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:16.079 And that's because that's what I always, I'm always thinking 354 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:19.559 whenever I watch Doctor Who, I'm like, I'm that companion who's 355 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:21.000 like, can we just go back to the times? 356 00:18:21.059 --> 00:18:25.019 And this will just be a one episode story where we just go, we 357 00:18:25.019 --> 00:18:26.160 just leave and everything's fine. 358 00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:27.900 And I love that. 359 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:31.559 I love how ordinary Rory isn't with his like southern coast accent 360 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:35.579 and his puffer jacket and yeah, they're quite good. 361 00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:36.240 Sheely. 362 00:18:36.299 --> 00:18:37.380 Yeah. 363 00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:40.920 I think it, I think it takes Rory to bring Amy down as well. 364 00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:43.980 Like they they are so recognisably normal and there's couples that 365 00:18:43.980 --> 00:18:45.900 I know that are very much, you know, have that dynamic. 366 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:49.259 But Amy's such an elevated character, a fantasy sort of manic 367 00:18:49.259 --> 00:18:52.079 pixie girl, and it takes Rory to bring her back to that sort of 368 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:55.859 recognisable sort of dynamic that they definitely have here. 369 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:59.339 And just going back to that line about, you know, you want to be 370 00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:01.680 forgiven and don't we all in Karen's reaction to that? 371 00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:07.200 I wonder whether that's also a kind of interiority on that 372 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:09.720 character's part because, of course, she's now living with the 373 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:13.319 guilt of having Rory wait 2000 years for her, right? 374 00:19:13.380 --> 00:19:16.140 And I wonder whether that's in that performance as well. 375 00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:20.880 I just think it was a really good idea to bring Arthur Devil on 376 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:21.539 board as a regular. 377 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:22.079 I agree. 378 00:19:22.140 --> 00:19:25.319 Not least because I think him and Matt Smith know each other 379 00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:28.799 already, but like you can tell from this story and also I think 380 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:30.779 the confidentials that we're playing at the time, you can just 381 00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:32.400 tell that they are having a ball. 382 00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:34.920 They're just having the best time hanging out making this 383 00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:35.940 ludicrous show together. 384 00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:40.500 And it really, it really shows like, I found just a couple of 385 00:19:40.500 --> 00:19:46.140 weeks ago when we were doing the two-part opening story, just 386 00:19:46.140 --> 00:19:52.500 having the 3 of them back, along with River, just made me so happy 387 00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:53.400 instantly. 388 00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:58.619 I do think that this crew is really amazing. 389 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:01.980 And I think it's for exactly the reasons that you say there, Dan. 390 00:20:02.099 --> 00:20:06.119 I think this episode, especially back in the day when this aired 391 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:09.599 and I saw it for the 1st time, it just reminded me how tickled I 392 00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:12.180 was that the show was back and it had been back for about 5 or 6 393 00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:16.259 years and it just made me sit back for a minute and giggle and I 394 00:20:16.259 --> 00:20:18.359 still couldn't quite believe that it was back on TV, you know 395 00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:19.380 after that, or that long wait. 396 00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:38.400 Should we talk about Cyran Jones as the TARDIS, or the way the 397 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:40.380 TARDIS is kind of used here? 398 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:45.240 Oh, let's, I think this is a hugely interesting and fascinating 399 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:46.259 aspect of this story. 400 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:51.000 It touches on so many things that, um, well, I guess it's sort of 401 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:54.660 central to the way that Moffatt just tells stories, but also the 402 00:20:54.660 --> 00:20:57.900 way that this 11th doctor is presented as well. 403 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:01.859 And what I mean by that, in terms of the Moffat thing is that 404 00:21:01.859 --> 00:21:05.880 Nathan, you've said many times before, this is a sex com writer 405 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:08.339 writing for Doctor Who, and there's so many tropes that sort of 406 00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:12.720 come across with that, not least, the hyper-competent, incredibly 407 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:16.680 intelligent, sexualised, dominant woman, which I think we get here 408 00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:18.960 with Saran Jones is the TARTA. 409 00:21:19.140 --> 00:21:21.660 Some people just go to counselling. 410 00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:31.799 I do love the reveal when she's saying that she stole him instead 411 00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:33.599 of him stealing the TARDIS. 412 00:21:33.660 --> 00:21:34.079 I love that. 413 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:37.259 Another thing I have got written, so gaming, which is like that 414 00:21:37.259 --> 00:21:40.859 there's sort of like that sort of creepy, crazy ballerina music 415 00:21:40.859 --> 00:21:41.819 playing in the background. 416 00:21:42.779 --> 00:21:47.940 I thought I thought that Clara told the doctor to steal a child. 417 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:52.619 I mean, the fact that she can't get verb tense is right and she 418 00:21:52.619 --> 00:21:54.539 keeps remembering things that haven't happened yet. 419 00:21:54.660 --> 00:21:56.700 I think is really quite magnificent. 420 00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:03.299 There's a line earlier on about a nine-year-old trying to fix a 421 00:22:03.299 --> 00:22:06.960 motorcycle which has nothing to do with what's going on in the 422 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.019 scene that it occurs in, and then she says it later when the 423 00:22:10.019 --> 00:22:11.819 doctor's trying to fix the TARDIS. 424 00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:16.200 She's archived console rooms that haven't happened yet. 425 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:19.680 All of that stuff is really sort of tremendous. 426 00:22:19.740 --> 00:22:24.119 And of course, there's the central thing around that as well, which 427 00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:31.200 is the reveal that the very sad word, the sad thing that she has 428 00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:34.740 to say, isn't goodbye, which is what we assume it is. 429 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:36.119 She actually remembers that word. 430 00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:37.440 It's hello. 431 00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:40.799 And I just think that's actually really very good. 432 00:22:40.859 --> 00:22:44.160 And it's impossible to tell whether that's Moffat or game and 433 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:46.500 because it could easily be either one of them. 434 00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:48.299 That's so true, definitely. 435 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:49.680 And how wonderful. 436 00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:51.839 Like it obviously pays off on... 437 00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:54.660 We go back to the edge of destruction, which is a car crash of a 438 00:22:54.660 --> 00:22:57.900 story, but what's so wonderful about it is that... 439 00:22:57.900 --> 00:23:02.519 As the 3rd ever story, Whitaker establishes that the Tartars is 440 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:06.000 not just a dreary prop or just a narrative method of conveyance 441 00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:06.900 but actually a character. 442 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:11.519 And here at last, that character is given voice and it's really 443 00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.599 really just gorgeous, that we have that moment where, you know, the 444 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:19.380 oldest character, the 2, you know, 2 oldest characters or 2 oldest 445 00:23:19.380 --> 00:23:23.819 continuing characters in the show finally get to say hello. 446 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:25.079 It's just wonderful. 447 00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:29.160 Isn't it as lovely how excited he is to talk to they finally get 448 00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:29.819 to talk to each other? 449 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:31.920 And it's it's just it's so sweet. 450 00:23:31.980 --> 00:23:34.200 The whole, the whole story is so sweet and imaginative and just 451 00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:37.140 the idea, I mean, going back to the, just the, the idea of putting 452 00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:39.599 the TARDIS in a person and having it talk and be a character. 453 00:23:39.660 --> 00:23:41.460 It's just such a brilliant idea. 454 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:43.680 But at the same time, I couldn't believe that they never thought 455 00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:44.039 of it before. 456 00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:48.119 In a way, it's something that the new series has opened up because 457 00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:51.539 it has a wider range of available ways of telling stories. 458 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:54.599 And so you couldn't, I think, have done it successfully in the 459 00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:57.660 classic series because the classic series doesn't have that 460 00:23:57.660 --> 00:24:00.180 character focus that the new series has. 461 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.420 They've probably got Kamika to play. 462 00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:07.200 I would like to see that. 463 00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:08.160 I love it. 464 00:24:08.220 --> 00:24:10.559 I love a tide eccentric story, like whenever you get to go inside 465 00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:13.200 it or you learn more about it or anything like that. 466 00:24:13.380 --> 00:24:16.859 But I just couldn't believe they hadn't done it before, even like 467 00:24:16.859 --> 00:24:19.619 in New Adventures or a book or something like that, but it's just 468 00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:21.359 such a simple, brilliant idea. 469 00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:23.819 And they just, they just now, like we said before, they just 470 00:24:23.819 --> 00:24:25.440 absolutely nailed that casting. 471 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:29.640 They wanted to call the story bigger on the inside. 472 00:24:29.819 --> 00:24:35.400 But, um, yeah. connotations, but they went, oh, actually, that 473 00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:37.619 probably gives away the main plot point, doesn't it? 474 00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:44.099 No, the doctor's wife is such a fun sort of, you know, nerd 475 00:24:44.099 --> 00:24:47.940 baiting title, but also just that maybe sort of link back to the 476 00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:48.900 JNT board. 477 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:51.660 I think I think it's absolutely perfect that way, but it's also 478 00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:55.019 isn't it funny because it's not, I don't know, literally, this 479 00:24:55.019 --> 00:24:56.519 isn't literally the doctor's wife. 480 00:24:56.579 --> 00:25:00.960 I think it rather suggests the show that we've been watching, and 481 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:03.240 particularly over the last 45 minutes, but maybe over the last, you 482 00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:06.059 know, well, 48 years at this point, should really be called the 483 00:25:06.059 --> 00:25:07.079 TARDIS's husband. 484 00:25:07.140 --> 00:25:09.180 And it is that line right at the end. 485 00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:11.339 What makes you think I would ever give you back? 486 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:15.720 Like she says, it's just wonderful. absolutely superb. 487 00:25:15.779 --> 00:25:17.339 It is wonderful. 488 00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:20.099 And like you said before, obviously written by the lifelong Doctor 489 00:25:20.099 --> 00:25:22.859 Who fans, they get to the doctor in his title is fine. 490 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:25.680 I get to have a conversation and basically tell each other they 491 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:28.740 love each other at the end of they get they get teary. 492 00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:31.259 It is kind of self-indulgent, but it's just really, really, really 493 00:25:31.259 --> 00:25:32.400 lovely and touching. 494 00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:37.500 There's an effortlessness to the way that he reinterprets the 495 00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:41.519 entire program, the premise of the entire program now gets turned 496 00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:46.920 on its head in a way that doesn't spoil anything that doesn't kind 497 00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:50.819 of require radical reinterpretations of the show, although it 498 00:25:50.819 --> 00:25:54.779 permits them, like the idea that the TARDIS gets the doctor to 499 00:25:54.779 --> 00:26:01.680 wear a good story is going to happen. you know, like we knew that 500 00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:04.980 but now here it is sort of presented as part of the show. 501 00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:08.279 Yeah, they do it without like a nerd angering retcon. 502 00:26:08.339 --> 00:26:09.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 503 00:26:09.539 --> 00:26:10.079 Yeah. 504 00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:11.880 Very deft, very yeah. 505 00:26:11.940 --> 00:26:13.500 He'll do it again. 506 00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:18.059 I think in things like listen or even in, you know, the 50th 507 00:26:18.059 --> 00:26:19.079 anniversary special. 508 00:26:19.140 --> 00:26:22.619 It is something that he's able to do that he's able to look at 509 00:26:22.619 --> 00:26:27.960 what happens in the show, produce a different interpretation of it 510 00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:30.119 and still leave the show intact. 511 00:26:30.180 --> 00:26:34.259 It's what's the point of a good idea if you can't reuse at least 2 512 00:26:34.259 --> 00:26:34.859 or 3 times. 513 00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:39.839 Sometimes, you know, just a season apart. 514 00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:42.000 Yeah. 515 00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:46.619 But also to use them in a way that is conciliatory or at least, you 516 00:26:46.619 --> 00:26:47.759 know, there's kisses to the past. 517 00:26:47.819 --> 00:26:50.579 You know, there's this sort of wonderful love for the program, what 518 00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:52.920 it was, what it is and what it can be and will be. 519 00:26:52.980 --> 00:26:56.519 And it's also another way in which, in addition to it being just 520 00:26:56.519 --> 00:26:57.720 really super meta. 521 00:26:57.779 --> 00:27:02.880 Um, it's tied in with those glorious, um, you know, beautiful sort 522 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:04.619 of emotions that underscore it as well. 523 00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.740 It's, for me, it's probably one of those top 10 new who episodes 524 00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:10.799 where the fields far outweigh the plot. 525 00:27:10.859 --> 00:27:12.119 Like, I don't really care. 526 00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:15.000 Nathan, you've said many times before about the bliz-bloss and all 527 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:15.539 the rest of it. 528 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:18.779 Like what this actually is, I feel, is a perfectly shaped, and 529 00:27:18.779 --> 00:27:22.559 maybe even deceptively simple story, because it has been refined 530 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:26.519 so much by Moffat and Game, and who I do think are geniuses, you 531 00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:29.279 know, in much the same way perhaps that a Terence Dix storyline 532 00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:31.259 seems so effortlessly simple. 533 00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:34.559 And I think it's really for all of those reasons that, you know 534 00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:39.000 the sort of kisses to the past, the emotion led character led 535 00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:42.359 narrative, which is still very much recognisably a classic Doctor 536 00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:43.920 Who kind of field story. 537 00:27:43.980 --> 00:27:47.339 Um, and, you know, a 1000 other grace notes, I think, that this 538 00:27:47.339 --> 00:27:48.660 story continually strikes. 539 00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:53.160 Like, I really couldn't possibly care less at the resolution to 540 00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:56.819 such a highly lauded script by 2 genius writers is literally a 541 00:27:56.819 --> 00:27:58.440 dais in Makina. 542 00:27:58.500 --> 00:28:00.299 I just don't care. 543 00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:07.319 So let's just talk about that because I do think that it is very 544 00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:09.599 very thin in certain ways. 545 00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:13.079 And we complained last week about the way that the curse of the 546 00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:18.180 black spot kind of fails to resolve into anything of any value at 547 00:28:18.180 --> 00:28:18.539 the end. 548 00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:26.880 So here we shunt Amy and Rory off to a side plot, which looks 549 00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:32.819 incredibly cheap and a little bit played and actually kind of 550 00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:34.859 unpleasant to watch as well, I think. 551 00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:36.720 Really, really nasty. 552 00:28:36.779 --> 00:28:41.039 You know, there were like, there were extra scenes where like Rory 553 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:42.720 got trapped in the 0 room. 554 00:28:44.460 --> 00:28:50.700 And Amy ended up in the Tartar swimming pool, but they got rid of 555 00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:53.519 the Amy in the pool scene because she couldn't swim. 556 00:28:54.059 --> 00:29:00.900 And because it costs money unlike those sort of dreadful Tartis 557 00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:01.920 corridors. 558 00:29:02.579 --> 00:29:09.059 I would have happily had them doing a wandering around an old 559 00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:12.240 hospital income art gallery. 560 00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:14.940 I do. 561 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:15.539 Why not? 562 00:29:15.660 --> 00:29:16.559 It can look like anything. 563 00:29:16.619 --> 00:29:19.740 The corridor parts are pretty drudgy. 564 00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:22.319 They're not my favourite, but I do really like something they do 565 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:26.519 often in Newhu, where they make the, they just make the Tartis 566 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:26.880 scary. 567 00:29:26.940 --> 00:29:30.660 There's like 2 ways where they just turn the lights off and it's 568 00:29:30.660 --> 00:29:31.200 such a simple thing. 569 00:29:31.259 --> 00:29:33.480 They do it at the very start of the episode and then again when 570 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:37.619 the when Michael Sheen takes over, um, and they just turn the 571 00:29:37.619 --> 00:29:40.140 lights off and it's like a dark TARDIS with no power is just 572 00:29:40.140 --> 00:29:42.119 inherently scary because it just never happens. 573 00:29:42.180 --> 00:29:46.799 And then they diffuse the whole thing with a green glow and they 574 00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:49.799 make the TARDIS menacing. 575 00:29:49.859 --> 00:29:53.220 I just really, really enjoyed that. you know, I like the idea of 576 00:29:53.220 --> 00:29:56.400 Michael Sheen watching people run around corridors. 577 00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:59.279 You can watch me run corridors anytime. 578 00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:03.480 Well, we've been doing that with Doctor Who for 50 years, so... 579 00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:04.680 Yeah, that's it. 580 00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:08.640 We need space corridors again for the 2nd week in a row. 581 00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:16.440 And then I do think that it's a little bit of a shame that there 582 00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:20.339 are basically no obstacles, you know, the plan just goes 583 00:30:20.339 --> 00:30:21.660 completely according to plan. 584 00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:23.160 We build a TARDIS. 585 00:30:23.220 --> 00:30:24.779 It lands in the other TARDIS. 586 00:30:24.839 --> 00:30:26.279 It lands on nephew. 587 00:30:26.339 --> 00:30:27.660 How can we do this really cheaply? 588 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:30.599 Telepathy with just let it tell telepathy with you with Rory. 589 00:30:30.660 --> 00:30:31.380 Rory just gets it. 590 00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:32.279 He knows what to do. 591 00:30:32.339 --> 00:30:35.220 He just does it. is so quick, isn't it? 592 00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:36.960 You get that as wonderful lines. 593 00:30:37.019 --> 00:30:39.240 It's like, you know, like the cute one. 594 00:30:39.299 --> 00:30:41.819 No, the pretty one? 595 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:42.420 pretty one. 596 00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:46.380 But again, those images. 597 00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:48.059 So what was it? 598 00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:50.759 Crimson 11 Delight Petrochor. 599 00:30:50.819 --> 00:30:54.839 And that's so similar to the way that the Tartars communicates 600 00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:58.740 with them in edge of destruction, just by showing a series of 601 00:30:58.740 --> 00:30:59.579 images. 602 00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:03.900 So it does make sense with, we know the TARDIS has a telepathic 603 00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:06.299 kind of field or whatever. 604 00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:07.859 So I don't mind that. 605 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.519 I think that that kind of plays on the mythology, but it is all 606 00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:14.339 just a little bit easy and a little bit straightforward. 607 00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:20.099 I kind of love how that's actually, it's the show fulfilling its 608 00:31:20.099 --> 00:31:21.900 original educational remit. 609 00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:26.339 It's teaching people what the word metrical means. 610 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:27.779 That's how I learned. 611 00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:31.619 And it'll become very, very valuable in episode 12, I think. 612 00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:36.839 Petrochord, is it, like, is Petrochord is an Australian? 613 00:31:36.900 --> 00:31:37.440 word? 614 00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:41.460 Like it's as in, it's a word that was 1st used to describe that 615 00:31:41.460 --> 00:31:43.380 smell by an Australian scientist. 616 00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:44.460 Oh, okay. 617 00:31:44.460 --> 00:31:52.079 It's the smell of, you know, the smell of water on dry earth in 618 00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:52.619 the outback. 619 00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:56.339 Yeah, no, now available at a perfume counter near you. 620 00:31:56.819 --> 00:31:57.420 Duty-free. 621 00:31:58.380 --> 00:32:01.380 You were saying before about like a thin plot. 622 00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:05.460 It's really just a good idea with a bunch of great dialogue and 623 00:32:05.460 --> 00:32:06.539 some good casting around it. 624 00:32:06.660 --> 00:32:08.519 And then they kind of, I guess they have to beef up the episode 625 00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:13.259 and you end up with these, the corridors, which, I feel like I can 626 00:32:13.259 --> 00:32:15.599 just, you can forgive because the rest of it's just so good. 627 00:32:15.660 --> 00:32:19.440 It is just, I did find myself when they were in the corridors with 628 00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:20.220 old Rory. 629 00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:23.099 I was just like, I just remember, I felt like I was shouting at 630 00:32:23.099 --> 00:32:25.680 the team, you're like, get back to the, get back to the love in 631 00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:29.579 because it's just like, all those climactic, all the climactic 632 00:32:29.579 --> 00:32:32.099 stuff when they're, um, the doctor and the TARDIS are, you know 633 00:32:32.099 --> 00:32:35.160 flying through the vortex, like without a shell and they're just 634 00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:36.779 like yelling at each other and having a great time. 635 00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:39.299 Then they just keep cutting back to Amy and Rory. 636 00:32:39.299 --> 00:32:40.980 And I'm like, no, no, take me back. 637 00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:46.380 Maybe it doesn't have like the full confidence to not be a Doctor 638 00:32:46.380 --> 00:32:47.099 Who episode. 639 00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:49.980 And that's a problem with Doctor Who, I think. 640 00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:54.779 It's like Power of 3 or Boomtown or something where all of the 641 00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:58.319 things that aren't the Doctor Who episode are vastly more fun than 642 00:32:58.319 --> 00:32:59.339 the things that are. 643 00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:03.119 And here I think we could have afforded to have a few less space 644 00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:07.259 corridors and a few and a bit less of a Doctor Who story going 645 00:33:07.259 --> 00:33:07.619 on. 646 00:33:07.619 --> 00:33:10.200 And that would have been more entertaining, I think. 647 00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:13.319 It could have, but I'm not sure I particularly mind. 648 00:33:13.380 --> 00:33:16.740 Like, and I know I say this as someone who loves Castra Valver. 649 00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:19.920 So it's not going to maybe carry too much weight, but those 650 00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:23.279 corridor scenes, the creepiness, all the rest of it, it kind of 651 00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:26.400 does found it in a Doctor Who nurse that maybe doesn't alienate 652 00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:29.460 you know, as many viewers as maybe it probably could have in 653 00:33:29.460 --> 00:33:31.980 introducing essentially the doctor's wife, right? 654 00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:35.099 And I feel like Doctor Who, I think Richard said this before many 655 00:33:35.099 --> 00:33:36.480 times on the pod in the past. 656 00:33:36.539 --> 00:33:39.900 Doctor Who is best when it does something else, but it's still 657 00:33:39.900 --> 00:33:41.039 Doctor Who doing those things. 658 00:33:41.160 --> 00:33:42.779 And I feel like that's what it does here. 659 00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:47.220 Yes, the plot is really thin, but isn't it also thin in city of 660 00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:47.640 death? 661 00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:49.500 It's not about necessarily the plot. 662 00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:53.279 It's about just how wonderful a ride it is across the duration of 663 00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:56.400 the episode and that's really what really works here for me. 664 00:33:56.700 --> 00:34:03.299 I guess it's a way of showing how essential Idris's character, the 665 00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:08.280 matrix of the TARDIS, the soul of the TARDIS, to the TARDIS being 666 00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:11.760 a sort of friendly, safe environment, like once she's gone from 667 00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:12.059 there. 668 00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:14.460 Yeah, making the tide is scary. 669 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:15.300 It just always works for me. 670 00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:19.440 I really like it. a dead, a dead TARDIS, a dark TARDIS, or when 671 00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:21.960 the TARDIS disappears, and it's separated from the doctor, that's 672 00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:24.059 just inherently scary to me because it just doesn't happen very 673 00:34:24.059 --> 00:34:24.300 often. 674 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:28.619 I guess for me, the problem is the kind of implication that Rory 675 00:34:28.619 --> 00:34:31.380 is suffering for prolonged periods of time. 676 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:34.079 I just find sort of deeply unpleasant, I think. 677 00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:38.340 Yeah, nah, it's just sort of nasty and yeah, Rory's a punching bag 678 00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:38.579 again. 679 00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:41.280 I like that they give them a bit of agency with the that sort of 680 00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:42.599 telepathy and the... 681 00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:43.679 I didn't read it that way. 682 00:34:43.739 --> 00:34:47.219 Like, I think you're supposed to read it that way in the, in the 683 00:34:47.219 --> 00:34:50.699 initial sort of moments, you're supposed to think, oh, he's 684 00:34:50.699 --> 00:34:56.219 trapped, again, for, ah, you know, 1000s of years or whatever 685 00:34:56.219 --> 00:35:02.880 slowly dying and hating Amy, but then that's just house screwing 686 00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:05.460 with her head because he just pops around the corner the next 687 00:35:05.460 --> 00:35:05.639 moment. 688 00:35:05.699 --> 00:35:09.960 So they, like, they set that up and then defuse it immediately 689 00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:12.480 going, well, no, actually we're not doing that to him this time. 690 00:35:12.539 --> 00:35:14.400 Well, except that we see it. 691 00:35:14.460 --> 00:35:15.360 Do you know what I mean? 692 00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:17.039 It doesn't matter whether it really happened or not. 693 00:35:17.099 --> 00:35:17.579 Guess what? 694 00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:20.460 of it actually happened. weekend to see it, though. 695 00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:24.179 I did laugh and I really did really enjoy that sort of corridor 696 00:35:24.179 --> 00:35:26.219 covered in graffiti with a skeleton in the middle. 697 00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:27.539 I did really enjoy that. 698 00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:28.320 It was quite fun. 699 00:35:41.820 --> 00:35:46.320 So, I just want to go back to that issue of the doctor's 700 00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:49.019 relationship with relationships, really, and the topic of your 701 00:35:49.019 --> 00:35:52.920 sexuality, or even asexuality, particularly for this 11th doctor 702 00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:55.800 who, you know, doesn't quite get it right. and it sort of 703 00:35:55.800 --> 00:36:00.420 indicates that this isn't as a sort of romantic lead as perhaps 704 00:36:00.420 --> 00:36:01.679 tenants doctor was. 705 00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:05.460 And I feel like that there's always that tension in Moffat stories 706 00:36:05.460 --> 00:36:07.739 particularly with the 11th doctor, that straddles the line between 707 00:36:07.739 --> 00:36:12.719 that sort of, you know, very early 2010s hetero lattishness, which 708 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.619 really is Moffat stock in trade, but also was very zeitgeist at 709 00:36:16.619 --> 00:36:17.099 the time. 710 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:21.239 And also his, at the same time, utterly alien asexuality. 711 00:36:21.300 --> 00:36:23.340 You know, at the end he talks about bunk beds, a bed with a 712 00:36:23.340 --> 00:36:23.639 ladder. 713 00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:25.019 You can't beat that. 714 00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:30.480 Like, just sort of, you know, showing just how clueless he 715 00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:31.559 actually is in this regard. 716 00:36:31.619 --> 00:36:35.699 Or rather a sexuality, maybe, that we can't possibly fathom in 717 00:36:35.699 --> 00:36:39.900 full, in the same way that even the doctor can't fathom time in 718 00:36:39.900 --> 00:36:42.539 the same way that the Tartars can perceive of time. 719 00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:46.320 There's this sort of alienness about him. 720 00:36:46.380 --> 00:36:48.059 Like, obviously he has a sexuality. 721 00:36:48.119 --> 00:36:51.480 Moffat said many times he has a granddaughter in as an answer to 722 00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:53.639 the question of, you know, does a doctor have sex, basically. 723 00:36:53.699 --> 00:36:57.599 So he's not sort of shying away from it, but he's, he reinterprets 724 00:36:57.599 --> 00:36:59.579 it and we, you know, obviously see it later. 725 00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:02.639 I think Missy in the season 9 opener sort of, you know, talks 726 00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:06.840 about his companions being like the dog in the couple. 727 00:37:07.260 --> 00:37:12.059 And I feel like that's just like a really clever having it both 728 00:37:12.059 --> 00:37:15.360 ways. like Moffatt being someone who can just sort of, you know 729 00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:18.480 produce this ambiguous depiction of the doctor's sexuality, which 730 00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:22.320 is at one time, you know, quite lettish and hetero, as I say, but 731 00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:24.059 also at the other, just utterly alien. 732 00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:26.340 And that kind of works for me, and I'm not sure whether it works 733 00:37:26.340 --> 00:37:26.880 for everyone else. 734 00:37:27.420 --> 00:37:31.920 I have said before that I think that both of Moffatt's doctors are 735 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:37.440 him in the way that both of RTDs doctors are him as well. 736 00:37:37.500 --> 00:37:46.320 Like, RTD's doctors are a facade of sort of jolliness and being 737 00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:51.239 charming and being likeable over a core of kind of cynicism and 738 00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:53.340 sort of self-hatred. 739 00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:54.719 And I think that that's Russell. 740 00:37:54.780 --> 00:38:00.420 And I think Moffatt's doctor is a kind of clueless manchild who 741 00:38:00.420 --> 00:38:06.239 likes being bossed around by other people and who secretly 742 00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:06.960 suspects. 743 00:38:07.019 --> 00:38:10.139 Yeah, by strong women. and who secretly suspects he's a bad 744 00:38:10.139 --> 00:38:10.559 person. 745 00:38:10.619 --> 00:38:16.440 And I think that the asexuality is playing up that manchildness 746 00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:20.219 because the asexuality often manifests itself as just being 747 00:38:20.219 --> 00:38:21.900 childish, like the bunk beds. 748 00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:25.739 You know, a 10 year old loves bunk beds because a 10 year old only 749 00:38:25.739 --> 00:38:27.659 conceives of beds as a place to sleep. 750 00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:36.000 And so I do think that that's what you get with Matt Smith's 751 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:40.320 doctor that he is actually kind of unpleasant in all sorts of ways 752 00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:45.119 like and often quite unlikeable, despite the sort of jolly 753 00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:46.260 exterior. 754 00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:49.800 But his incompetence. 755 00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:55.079 You know, the way that River comes in, just a few weeks ago, River 756 00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:59.280 again demonstrates how much better she is at Flying the TARDIS 757 00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:00.000 than he is. 758 00:39:00.059 --> 00:39:04.559 No one else would have dared ever to suggest that in the history 759 00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:08.820 of Doctor Who, but Moffatt does because Moffatt himself is a 760 00:39:08.820 --> 00:39:11.519 little bit of a man child and is kind of aware of. 761 00:39:11.579 --> 00:39:14.940 And she's constantly being like confusing him and embarrassing him 762 00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:18.780 by being sexy at him in close proximity. 763 00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:24.000 I do think that there's I think there's a bit where it's somewhere 764 00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:27.000 maybe it's in the Smith's 1st season. someone offers him alcohol 765 00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:30.360 and he takes a sip and then just spits it straight back out and 766 00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:31.619 it's... 767 00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:35.460 Again, he did that 3 weeks ago in the Impossible Astronaut. 768 00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:36.480 I love that. so simple. 769 00:39:36.539 --> 00:39:39.000 It's like you don't have to explain why he doesn't drink or they 770 00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:39.719 don't have to... 771 00:39:39.780 --> 00:39:43.500 They don't really have to explain his sexuality because he's a 772 00:39:43.500 --> 00:39:46.380 1000 year old alien and it should be something that we probably 773 00:39:46.380 --> 00:39:48.059 can't understand or conceive of. 774 00:39:48.119 --> 00:39:51.000 Like they do with that missy episode down the line, which I do. 775 00:39:51.059 --> 00:39:52.380 I just love that conversation they have. 776 00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:53.880 It's brilliant. 777 00:39:53.940 --> 00:39:58.980 But, yeah, I just think, uh, I'd like they sort of toyed with, uh 778 00:39:58.980 --> 00:40:03.539 companion fancies the doctor a 3rd time with Amy earlier on, and 779 00:40:03.539 --> 00:40:07.019 I'm so glad they got past it and got, because it's just been so 780 00:40:07.019 --> 00:40:09.960 done, um, and and done, done clumsily, I think. 781 00:40:10.019 --> 00:40:13.920 And I'm glad that they seem to just have like, now, not taken a 782 00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:16.500 stand, but like staked a position out that that's probably not 783 00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:19.800 going to happen with this doctor because he's, uh, he's a weird 784 00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:22.079 1000 year old alien and he's just not not into it. 785 00:40:22.139 --> 00:40:23.099 He's just not that into you. 786 00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:28.320 I like to think that, like, you know, um, River and the 11th 787 00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:31.199 doctor never, never consummated their relationship. 788 00:40:31.260 --> 00:40:34.019 That didn't happen. 789 00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:36.420 And until Capaldi is the doctor. 790 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:36.780 I agree. 791 00:40:36.780 --> 00:40:42.360 Like they spend 24 years together on... 792 00:40:42.420 --> 00:40:45.480 Yeah, like, like, I kind of like that conception. 793 00:40:45.659 --> 00:40:49.679 Yeah, Matt Smith does seem like with River Song. he's got a 794 00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:50.820 girlfriend that he doesn't know what to do with. 795 00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:54.900 Like a, like, when you get a girlfriend, when you're in, like, in 796 00:40:54.900 --> 00:40:56.699 primary school, you just don't know what to do with them. 797 00:40:56.820 --> 00:40:57.960 Like, you know? 798 00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:10.500 So, originally this episode, like the introductory scene, um, that 799 00:41:10.500 --> 00:41:13.860 became the Tartar scene, uh, at the beginning of this episode, were 800 00:41:13.860 --> 00:41:15.840 set on the Planet of the Raincords. 801 00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:22.500 Um, and the the hypercube turned up and and interrupted them being 802 00:41:22.500 --> 00:41:24.539 sacrificed. 803 00:41:24.539 --> 00:41:26.460 Just some rainbows. 804 00:41:26.460 --> 00:41:29.340 And it was just cheaper to have it knock on the door. 805 00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:32.639 Well exactly. like that I did so much. 806 00:41:32.699 --> 00:41:38.219 He rewrote it for the doctor and river, like as a mini, a mini 807 00:41:38.219 --> 00:41:41.820 episode that they used on, like, yeah, they released on the series 808 00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:42.719 7 box set. 809 00:41:42.780 --> 00:41:43.619 Oh really? 810 00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:46.079 I do, I do, it's quite fabulous. 811 00:41:46.139 --> 00:41:49.679 I do love that. another tiny little idea that's just nothing and 812 00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:52.079 it's just a quick thing, but like the idea of someone knocking on 813 00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:55.679 the knocking on the TARDIS door in deep space is just so fun and 814 00:41:55.679 --> 00:41:55.980 silly. 815 00:41:56.219 --> 00:41:59.340 It's quite quick and they go past it quickly, but they do enjoy 816 00:41:59.340 --> 00:41:59.639 it. 817 00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:02.639 Like, the doctor's like, someone's knocking on the door. 818 00:42:02.699 --> 00:42:03.179 It's great. 819 00:42:03.239 --> 00:42:03.840 Who's it gonna be? 820 00:42:03.900 --> 00:42:04.380 What's so good? 821 00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:06.659 It's a continuity range. 822 00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:34.980 Well, they listener, that's all we have time for this week. 823 00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:39.000 We'll be back next week for some timely lessons in workplace 824 00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:41.820 health and safety in the rebel flesh. 825 00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:45.659 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts 826 00:42:45.659 --> 00:42:48.420 and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook 827 00:42:48.420 --> 00:42:51.599 at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website 828 00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:54.599 FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other 829 00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:57.780 podcasts, Bondfinger, and Jody into terror. 830 00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:03.119 Until next time, may you find a man who looks at you the way the 831 00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:05.400 doctor looks at that helmet regulator. 832 00:43:05.460 --> 00:43:08.280 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 833 00:43:08.340 --> 00:43:09.780 Good night. 834 00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:10.920 Be seeing you. 835 00:43:10.980 --> 00:43:12.659 Good night, beautiful idiots. 836 00:43:17.340 --> 00:43:20.880 That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley 837 00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:23.579 Stephen, B, and Dan from New to Who, and James Selwood. 838 00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:25.260 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 839 00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:28.380 This episode, nerd baiting title, was recorded on the 8th of 840 00:43:28.380 --> 00:43:30.960 August 2021 and released on the 3rd of October. 841 00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:37.920 You know that recurring nightmare you have where the soul of your 842 00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:41.099 beloved Prius is placed in the body of Siran Jones, who then comes 843 00:43:41.099 --> 00:43:43.199 over to your house and beats the crap out of you for all those 844 00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:44.460 times you crashed her into other cars. 845 00:43:44.579 --> 00:43:46.619 Just knee? 846 00:43:46.739 --> 00:43:47.699 Bye for now. 847 00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:57.420 I thought you were gonna talk about the, um, the little thing at 848 00:43:57.420 --> 00:43:59.639 the start, which I've never seen in Doctor Who before, which I 849 00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:02.400 forgot it even happened, that there's like a little bit of a recap 850 00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:05.880 where I don't know if it happened at the time or if it's just 851 00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:08.579 something on when I watched it just now on a streaming service 852 00:44:08.579 --> 00:44:11.880 where it's like Amy's just doing a little recap of previous, not 853 00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:14.699 previous on the doctor, but like, uh, a man came and took me away 854 00:44:14.699 --> 00:44:17.400 and now we're travelling through time and space, blah, blah, blah. 855 00:44:17.460 --> 00:44:17.820 Yeah. 856 00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:22.199 So it's not on the DVDs, but it is on the streaming versions that 857 00:44:22.199 --> 00:44:22.980 we have. 858 00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:24.239 So I was watching on the stand. 859 00:44:24.300 --> 00:44:25.500 It's on series 5 as well. 860 00:44:25.619 --> 00:44:28.679 And I think it is an attempt to kind of make the show accessible 861 00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:30.420 to an American audience in particular. 862 00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:33.480 Well, I, because I thought, because I thought it was, it was a 863 00:44:33.480 --> 00:44:36.300 little trite, but I did really, I did quite enjoy it and it did 864 00:44:36.300 --> 00:44:39.059 make me think, like, if they did, if they did it, did they do it 865 00:44:39.059 --> 00:44:39.420 at the time? 866 00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:43.260 Yeah, but not when they showed it on the BBC, I don't think. 867 00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:43.679 James? 868 00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:44.099 No. 869 00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:45.119 Just in America. 870 00:44:45.179 --> 00:44:50.699 I think maybe we did get some episodes on the ABC. 871 00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:55.260 They did it with, and I think maybe, you know, Australian Doctor 872 00:44:55.260 --> 00:44:57.300 Who fans, Australian Doctor Who fans. 873 00:44:57.360 --> 00:44:58.559 There were lots of complaints. 874 00:44:58.619 --> 00:45:00.179 Oh, ruining my break. 875 00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:03.960 I don't need this explained to me, I'm not an American. 876 00:45:04.019 --> 00:45:08.760 That's annoying because it does seem silly and unnecessary, but 877 00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:11.880 then, like, you remember, like, in the classic era, one of the 878 00:45:11.880 --> 00:45:13.980 mistakes they made when they got by the time they got to the 80s 879 00:45:13.980 --> 00:45:17.519 they didn't, they forgot that their fans had sort of children had 880 00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:20.159 aged up and left the show and they weren't making an attempt to 881 00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:22.139 like, bring in 2 kids. 882 00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:25.920 And this is just this is just one of the things they do with this 883 00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:28.619 doctor to kind of appeal to to new kids. 884 00:45:28.679 --> 00:45:31.199 But it's just a tiny thing, like a little recap. 885 00:45:31.260 --> 00:45:33.179 If you're a kid, you've never seen it before. 886 00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:35.219 You're immediately up to speed as much as you need to be. 887 00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:37.199 And I just thought it was a really cool little thing. 888 00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:40.320 I don't care what the Australia is. what the nerds think. 889 00:45:40.380 --> 00:45:41.940 I'm not plugged into fan. 890 00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:42.719 None of us jumped. 891 00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:45.659 We didn't jump into Doctor Who from the beginning. 892 00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:46.440 Do you know what I mean? 893 00:45:46.500 --> 00:45:49.079 All of us kind of rocked up at some point in the middle of it. 894 00:45:49.139 --> 00:45:51.900 And in fact, series 5 is a great starting point. 895 00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:54.059 You wouldn't want to never go back and watch the earliest 896 00:45:54.059 --> 00:45:54.539 seasons. 897 00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:55.559 Do you know what I mean? 898 00:45:55.619 --> 00:45:59.460 Because they're all sort of, well, that's like a personal 899 00:45:59.460 --> 00:45:59.940 trainer. 900 00:46:00.539 --> 00:46:04.199 But, but, you know, like I think it's a pretty good start. 901 00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:08.099 I think that Matt Smith here is pretty, you can, like, if you're a 902 00:46:08.099 --> 00:46:10.260 kid, you could probably jump in anywhere and be fine. 903 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:11.639 Yeah, yeah. 904 00:46:11.820 --> 00:46:13.980 Yeah, it's not an accident. 905 00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:17.099 This is the series and the doctor that broke the broke into the 906 00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:19.139 American market through BBC America. absolutely. 907 00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:22.440 And again, again, it's one of those seasons where with the arc 908 00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:26.219 where it's got, like, sure, it has a season arc, but most episodes 909 00:46:26.219 --> 00:46:28.079 it's like 10 seconds at the end. 910 00:46:28.139 --> 00:46:29.340 They're like, oh, put the arc thing in. 911 00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:32.940 Just put the, you know, put them under of Amy's pregnant thing and 912 00:46:32.940 --> 00:46:34.860 the doctor's like, well, no, remember the arc? 913 00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:35.400 Oh, boy. 914 00:46:35.460 --> 00:46:36.719 And then it's the end. 915 00:46:36.780 --> 00:46:38.579 Well, don't we start with that this week? 916 00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:40.860 We actually start with a discussion of having seen the doctor 917 00:46:40.860 --> 00:46:41.219 die. 918 00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:41.940 Yeah, that's right. 919 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:42.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 920 00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:46.440 This season's so all over the place in my memory because I didn't 921 00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:48.480 I don't think I watched it all at the time and then I watched it 922 00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:51.960 later and it's all out of sequence in my head, but to be fair 923 00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:53.760 series 6 is all over the place. 924 00:46:54.179 --> 00:46:58.920 You had something, Stephen, about a YouTube interview? 925 00:46:58.980 --> 00:47:00.059 Oh, yeah. 926 00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:02.219 So, I mean, this is probably just something that you can put as a 927 00:47:02.219 --> 00:47:02.639 tag. 928 00:47:03.659 --> 00:47:07.139 But I don't know, but I don't know if you gents have seen it. 929 00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:10.619 It's actually from something called the Hay Festival in 2017, back 930 00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:14.280 before, you know, life was good and we weren't locked down. 931 00:47:14.340 --> 00:47:17.880 And it's an interview panel interview on stage with Neil Gaiman 932 00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:18.480 and Stephen Fry. 933 00:47:18.539 --> 00:47:19.500 It's called the Mythmakers. 934 00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:20.219 It's really wonderful. 935 00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:23.280 But, uh, you know, towards the end where they get the inevitable 936 00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:27.360 questions from the audience, what one lady asks, have you ever 937 00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:30.000 felt like a god, uh, they were talking about gods the whole time. 938 00:47:30.059 --> 00:47:34.860 And the gamer's response to this was something along the lines of 939 00:47:34.860 --> 00:47:37.920 the closest that I've ever felt to feeling like a god is when I 940 00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:41.280 sat down and wrote interior Tartus console. 941 00:47:41.340 --> 00:47:44.159 And I just think that was just such a beautiful answer and just 942 00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:47.099 speaks again to how much of a fan, a super fan he is of the show. 943 00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:50.579 So I wonder whether one day he won't actually be sort of like the 944 00:47:50.579 --> 00:47:52.500 Netflix show runner for Doctor Who. 945 00:47:53.639 --> 00:47:55.440 That would be something. 946 00:47:55.500 --> 00:47:56.699 That'll be something. 947 00:47:56.699 --> 00:47:58.619 He can't get my favourite. to see one. 948 00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:01.679 He's so busy making all the other BBC. 949 00:48:02.940 --> 00:48:04.500 All right. 950 00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:08.159 Let's let's do an outro, I think. 951 00:48:08.219 --> 00:48:10.559 I think we've got, I think we've sorted. 952 00:48:10.619 --> 00:48:11.340 Yeah. 953 00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:12.239 All right, here goes. 954 00:48:12.300 --> 00:48:13.380 Are you ready? 955 00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:20.579 Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week. 956 00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:25.079 We'll be back next week for some timely lessons in workplace. 957 00:48:25.980 --> 00:48:29.880 I'm so, I'm really excited to be on the flight for retarity 958 00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:30.420 Gabriel. 959 00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:31.320 Let me just say.