WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:08:18

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Hello and welcome to Quite Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that's just taken off from Mars.

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What the hell was that?

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm the ambassador of...

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Oh, now I think I know that's good.

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This is an amazing 1st for the program.

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And I don't really want to sort of oversell it, but it's an absolute turning point in history of Doctor Who.

9
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And it is the introduction of the sting.

10
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Yes.

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And we get it twice an episode.

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We get it, you know, a little moment, a little momenty moment at the very beginning, which is usually the reprise for the kids.

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Okay, now you're not talking about the group, the police, and you're not talking about Robert Redford.

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Paul Newman in the film of the same name.

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Or possibly the best episode of Futurama.

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Oh, yeah.

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Oh, yeah, it's good.

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However, so it sounds like this. did that very well. very, very clever.

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Without any sort of vocal treatment at all.

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It starts to appear for the 1st time here.

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At the beginning of the sort of 2nd half of the credits that happen after a prize, and then at the end of each episode.

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I think it's a wonderful directorial touch, having the reprise within the opening granite.

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Yeah, I mean, it's kind of what we do now, isn't it?

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You have a teaser and then you have the...

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It's literally what we did just then. the customer.

26
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Yes.

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Did we mention that we're talking about ambassadors of death at all?

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Well, Richard said the ambassadors are boy...

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Oh, I guess so.

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I think people got it.

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And I used Dudley's, um, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

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That's why we're all dressed as the swingle singers.

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That's right.

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We've all got sort of like yellow turtleneck, sweaters.

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It's also quite warm, which explains the mini skirts.

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Yeah, I'm draping one pieces, yeah.

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Brendan, you've got all blue and spotty.

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What's all this about?

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We've got to get some clearer sauce.

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This is terrible.

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I'll turn off the microwave.

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It's doing terrible to our complexions.

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I actually think they're the best looking aliens we've had so far.

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CSO is really, really working.

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But the 1st time this says so far this season.

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It wasn't terribly great in the caves of dreaminess, was it?

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What's happening now?

48
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The sting.

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It's one of these things that you imagine the Doctor Who actually always had, you know, that it was a part and parcel of the show from the beginning.

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But in fact, it's it only day to use here.

51
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It really livens up the cliffhangers.

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There are plenty of times in the 60s where you get a sort of slow and undramatic fade to black and then a couple of moments of silence and then we go with the closing credits.

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But this one, it really reinforces the cliffhanger.

54
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And I think in about time.

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They've got a whole essay on the sting.

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I think they're the ones who say that it sounds like your TV is surprised by the situation as well.

57
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So it's a huge thing and it really works well and it's lasted up until the present day.

58
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But the show has sort of changed unrecognisably around it.

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So this time last year, we were doing seeds of death and the space part.

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Seeds of death, you mentioned because this looks nothing like it, even though we've got the same lovely director in Michael Ferguson.

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It's absolutely nothing like it.

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There are one or 2 directorial touches, though.

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And then a year before that, we had Webber Fear and Fury from the Deep.

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And this show is now nothing at all like that.

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This is a political thriller.

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And Doctor Who doesn't do many political thrillers.

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I could think of mind of evil and invasion of the dinosaurs, but that'd be about it.

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We had one previously, enemy of the world.

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Enemy of the world.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So it's the thing that the show has done before, but it's not a well that the show, you know, goes to very frequently.

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And this one's a little bit more gone and a little bit more kind of low key.

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Certainly enemy of the world was sort of brand and camp and set in the future and had, you know, trout and acting sort of splendidly.

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This one is a bit more gritty sort of along the lines of the TV shows and things that you mentioned last episode, I think, Richard.

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What is this story?

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We've got this fantastic, this where Havik comes in and does a whole lot of action straight out of the Ipcrest file.

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And then we suddenly got Britty locations and extra, extra gritty muddy shops and factories, and it's actually, like I mentioned, Mike Hodges would get Carter.

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But then with John's fabulous flouncy Steady outfit, it's more like Get Her Carter, isn't it, really?

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We've got, there's always a bit of camp in between the grit.

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Yeah, which is probably the best way to take your camp and take your grit.

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This is actually, this is the where it veers away from...

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That sounds like someone's doing a weed.

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Brendan's pouring champagne.

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Champagne for everyone.

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But yeah, the grit is...

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I think the grits really welcome.

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Well, it provides that Doctor-ish touch of something abnormal in the normal.

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I think what the production team have realised is if you have Doctor Who filled with normality, doctor has to become even more abnormal in order to have the tension that Doctor Who has always had.

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Yeah.

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So you no longer have the TARDIS.

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Although we do see the console and have a rather amusing sequence between the doctor and Liz flitting off here and there, which actually foreshadows the next story.

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It does.

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And some fans have conjectured the possibility that the doctor's bachelor pad with all that lovely green clock wallpaper in Dive Windows is actually the TARDIS interior because it has the hum.

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And I love that idea.

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It should be.

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For one story only, the doctor's called Pure 70s.

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It's a story though, Ambassadors of Death. is not really widely known or seen even by long-term football, you know, unless you're a really diehard fan because it was so late coming out on DVD and it's kind of forgotten and not everybody.

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It is, what is this story about?

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Still not sure I know after having watched it several times.

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We've strayed away from the real world, which is where we said the Silurians was set.

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British astronaut?

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We have a British space program and they're travelling to Mars.

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They're already landed on Mars at least twice.

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And yet what year is this set in?

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Oh, is that another discussion?

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We've had this discussion and that's it.

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It was something that happened on television in 1970s.

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According to John Pertley, it was set in 1980 because he, when he gives an interview after he's been cast, that interview where John Levine was carrying him around in a yeti costume, why John Pertley was wearing a yeti costume, I don't know.

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But we said that my doctor will be a lot more modern, he will wear a modern suit, which didn't happen.

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And the stories will be set in 1980.

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Which explains Liz's amazing hat.

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And John Abaneri's outrageous Colonel Foster from UFO rug.

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What is that week?

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This is the this is the story of the Amazing Hats, isn't it?

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Oh, the space helmets of the astronauts are actually from the fabulous Hammer films, Moon 02, which was a Western inset in space with Catherine's skill from Space 1979, not yet to be vocal. and a lot of other folk we all love.

116
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And of course, you've got the wonderful variable accent of Dr. Bruno Tatalian.

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Oh, where we get an archer crossover for the 1st time in Doctor Who.

118
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Isn't he actually playing a character from Archer, would you?

119
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Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah, he's pretty much creaker, yeah.

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So what's happening?

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There are British astronauts who are trying who have been to Mars and come back.

123
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Well, they haven't come back.

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They've taken off, but they haven't returned.

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So we sent up another rocket to get them.

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How good did that rocket look?

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Did it look good?

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The model, though, we've got to get...

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It goes fresh from Jerry's 1st go at UFO and he's doing some really lovely shots.

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It's a 1st to him too, isn't it?

131
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Yeah, it is for the 1st go.

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We're actually getting some ITC level, Lou Great, Jerry Anderson effect level model shots, which take up half the story, it seems.

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Well, again, they're doing the slow moving model shot with the sort of classical-ish.

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I thought it was 2001 again.

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I thought it was a bit barkish.

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It actually sounds like...

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So that, you know, we've got... pale, all possibly bar.

139
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We've got Dudley doing our own real score.

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That most jarring thing for me in this story is all the stings and boings throughout, just to let you know, a dramatic moments coming up.

141
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I find it very generic.

142
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Although, a lot of it is very sort of 60s spy, actually.

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Yeah, if you haven't seen any of Chris File, you'd swear you're watching the same thing.

144
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But the music for the just to get back.

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What in fact happens is they lose contact with the 2 Mars astronauts who are coming back.

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And the 3rd astronaut who has come to rescue them.

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They lose contact with them completely.

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But they managed to bring down the capsule and before they can open it, the 3 astronauts they think are taken out.

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And it turns out the astronauts are aliens and they're being used in this sort of vast conspiracy.

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And there's conspiracies within conspiracies.

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There's an original conspiracy that involves like a civil servant and things, and a general, General Carrington, who's John Abenieri, who will later turn up in power of Kroll virtually naked and painted green, and did his part enough.

152
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And also an episode of Red Dwarf, and it's arguable which one has more dignity.

153
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So that conspiracy gets unmasked and the civil servant gets killed and it turns out that behind that conspiracy is a conspiracy exactly the same, involving all of the same people.

154
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It is sort of very strange.

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So I'm not sure that the conspiracy element sort of really worked, but what does work is the aliens, I think, and the aliens are very undersold, aren't they?

156
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We see them very briefly.

157
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We see a sort of blueface thing.

158
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There's a per tweak goes up in a rocket and season other alien that is Peter Halliday again.

159
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Cyberplanner.

160
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But I really like the way that's done.

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And you walk in with a very Orwellian thing of them all.

162
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It's so Englishman in space.

163
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They're not talking about the oxygen levels.

164
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They're not talking about the political climate.

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They're talking about England getting defeated by Portugal in the football that they're watching on the woo-woo screen.

166
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It's really, and of course, the alien appears through a Venetian blind.

167
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It's varying.

168
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And I love the way that it's so understated, you know, it's kind of a shame we didn't get a British space program.

169
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That would have been so silly, yes.

170
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But the other aliens are the other 3 spacesuited things.

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And we originally think that they're the astronauts coming back, but we discovered that they're not. they're really, really terrifying.

172
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And there's Yeah, they're well paced, aren't they?

173
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And they get great music.

174
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Like there's this sort of weird distorted harp music that plays.

175
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No, they're flutes, I think.

176
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Something anyway.

177
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

178
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It is sort of slightly odd and distorted.

179
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And they sound really great.

180
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And Michael Ferguson does the trick that he does in Seeds of Death.

181
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You remember when we did Seeds of Death.

182
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You said that Rod's memory of watching it for the 1st time was the Ice Warrior with looming up with the light of the sun behind him.

183
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Yeah, I love the lens sperm.

184
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He redoes that, doesn't he, for these?

185
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And you have to think that those spacesuits, because they're blank faced, you never really see, you do see one shot of the face of one of the aliens and it's sort of blue and gruesome.

186
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And very sort of quick cuts.

187
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Yeah.

188
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Like you cut back and forth to Liz's reaction.

189
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Yeah, it's horror movie stuff.

190
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That's what they do in horror movies.

191
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Yeah, it's very Hammer, actually.

192
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So that...

193
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I mean, those spaces, those astronauts, menacing people look really terrifying and you've got to think that Stephen Moffatt is reusing that iconography in the Impossible Astronaut in series 6 a lot later because they are really memorable looking.

194
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It's an interesting thought.

195
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We just read that as Scooby-Doo aliens, didn't we?

196
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From the same way with the skull heads from silence and the library, but I do remember a great comic I saw.

197
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And on the top, you've got the Scooby gang and saying, let's see who the alien really is.

198
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It's old man Winters, and then you've, on the 2nd panel.

199
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You've got the 11th doctor, Amy, Rory and River.

200
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Let's see all old Man Winters really is.

201
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He's a silence.

202
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Yeah, the double reveal, yeah.

203
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Something I love about this story is it would be easy to look at this story and say General Carrington is a villain.

204
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But really, the villain of this story is Regan, who is General Carrington's hired help.

205
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I think the least successful performance in this as well.

206
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I find him I find him quite well plotting to watch, you know?

207
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The interesting thing is if you look at the context.

208
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Regan is Irish.

209
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He doesn't, he sort of does the accent.

210
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Yeah, just a little, but the name is clear.

211
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You're right.

212
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And he's the accent, is there, and it's about the troubles.

213
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It's a real strong reference to Northern Ireland.

214
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This is 6 months after the Battle of Bogside, which is sort of the crystallising event that led to the provisional IRA. having an Irish villain was very topical.

215
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And I quite like reading because He's enjoying himself, isn't he?

216
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Well, plus he feels dangerous.

217
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He's, yeah, he is someone from the champions or later the professionals, but he's someone from an ITC series.

218
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I do feel I'm watching an episode of a lady 70s cop show in this, yeah.

219
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But it does mean that he and his lackeys get some great material with Carol and John, or rather, she gets some great material with them.

220
00:14:13.379 --> 00:14:30.899
The thing that really sticks into my mind and it just crystallises Liz's character for me is when at one point Reagan's telling her off for trying to escape and he sort of throws her to one of the guards and the guard is grabbing her and she's looking up at him. you know, he's 6 foot 6 and she just says, don't worry, I won't hurt you.

221
00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:33.059
They're a nice one to see.

222
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:39.600
But it is quite jarring, and you know, you're not watching a kitty show anymore, and the way that the doctor's companion is really manhandled in this.

223
00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:52.259
She's, she has a really rough time and she's running hard in those ridiculous go-go boots and she's outside and it's cold and the bit with the wear when she almost goes over and the actress was in fact 3 months pregnant.

224
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:52.919
Exactly.

225
00:14:52.980 --> 00:14:55.080
And a lot of that, you know, how much of that is her?

226
00:14:55.139 --> 00:14:56.700
Quite a bit when she's running along.

227
00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:57.600
Yeah, some of it's not.

228
00:14:57.720 --> 00:14:58.679
Some of it's...

229
00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:01.200
Stewart fell, but I believe the rest of it was her.

230
00:15:01.259 --> 00:15:08.220
But the physicality in the way they manhandle her is hitting unfortunate jars against the rest of the show.

231
00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:11.100
Okay, we're making this for teenage boys, not for little kids anymore.

232
00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:14.039
But, How did you feel about it?

233
00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:20.759
I think I think it cements how how villainous these villains are.

234
00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:22.440
That we're in real danger.

235
00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:23.519
That we're in real danger.

236
00:15:23.580 --> 00:15:27.000
It's very telling that when General Carrington threatens them.

237
00:15:27.059 --> 00:15:28.080
He threatens them with a gun.

238
00:15:28.139 --> 00:15:31.799
It doesn't threaten them with physical force and grabbing them and punching people and what have you.

239
00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:33.840
So what you've got is you've got 2 levels of violence.

240
00:15:33.899 --> 00:15:41.399
You've got the violence of the street thug and you've got the violence of the landed pentry, if you like.

241
00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:44.100
And really, you know, it's all terrible.

242
00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:54.360
But it's highlighting the double standard here that you have these peaceful aliens, but they're seen as evil because they have this unfortunate thing where if they touch you, they kill you.

243
00:15:54.419 --> 00:15:55.860
But it's not an intentional thing.

244
00:15:55.919 --> 00:16:00.899
Whereas you've got Carrington saying sort of the ends justify the means it was my moral duty.

245
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:03.539
Yeah, it doesn't stop the fact that you're no better than these dogs.

246
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:09.059
Yeah, I hate Carrington, and I hate the way that Pertui responds to him at the end, and it's hard to read, I guess.

247
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:28.620
But you always get this sort of impression that Reagan's a sort of terrible thug and a terrible person, but Carrington, and he says, you know, it's about his moral duty, and that's the cliffhanger to episode 6, and he, you know, he's going to shoot the doctor in the head because it's his moral duty, and you kind of think, well, he's someone who dresses up a murderous conspiracy in which, like, people have been horribly killed.

248
00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:34.019
You know, he's going to start an intergalactic war, but he's dressing it up in moral language.

249
00:16:34.019 --> 00:16:36.179
And like, I don't think that makes it any better.

250
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:45.120
And I don't think that he deserves a pass or needs to be sort of regarded as somewhat somewhat more noble or worthwhile than Regan.

251
00:16:45.179 --> 00:16:53.580
And I think the big difference is exactly what you've been pointed, it's class, you know, like he's a proper general and Regan's just a sort of thug.

252
00:16:53.820 --> 00:16:59.820
You see, I don't think the doctor saying to him, look, I understand, is a pass.

253
00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:04.019
I think it's just the doctor saying, you know, you need help.

254
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:07.019
I understand that in your twisted mind, this makes sense.

255
00:17:07.380 --> 00:17:10.500
He's placating the boing boing brain.

256
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:15.299
I think that I think that John Abaneri is the boring in ambassadors are boring.

257
00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:25.200
There is a fabulous moment where Carrington does his 1st kind of moral duty speech and he has to sort of, you know, bomb the aliens.

258
00:17:25.259 --> 00:17:26.220
They all want to be killed.

259
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:27.960
They killed my friend Jimmy or whatever.

260
00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:36.059
And the baby... very sort of quietly says, you know, I think the general's a bit overraw.

261
00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:39.059
And then you had that lovely thing of Cornish there.

262
00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:41.819
Cornish without the huge steel shoulder pads from the dominator.

263
00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:43.140
Yes, it says I think he's insane.

264
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:48.059
It's not a lovely treatment, the way they take the, is it Mike Cornish?

265
00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:49.859
Ralph, Ralph Cornish.

266
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:52.500
Everyone's called Mike and the 70s. or Jimmy.

267
00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:54.779
Yeah, isn't the game?

268
00:17:54.839 --> 00:18:00.059
Well, Ronald Allen, who we've just enjoyed so much in the dominators, dominatrix is.

269
00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:00.960
He's actually pretty good.

270
00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:03.900
We never said, he's probably the best thing in the dominators.

271
00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:05.700
He seems to try to give it some realism.

272
00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:06.900
I think he's superb in this.

273
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:08.279
Oh, I think he's really perfect.

274
00:18:08.339 --> 00:18:16.380
And the way that he pivots from complete antipathy towards Pertz and towards the doctor's extraordinary arrogance.

275
00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:20.400
The doctor's an absolute us in the 1st episode towards everyone.

276
00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:23.220
Well, I said this in our last episode.

277
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:27.599
The doctor's instinct is to go in there and just be arrogant and belittle everyone.

278
00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:35.339
And the Cornish starts to react badly to this and the brigadier kind of mates in calm down and per tweet backs down and apologise.

279
00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:38.339
So the 70s way of producing tension within the drama.

280
00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:40.680
Well, I mean, it's only it's only in episode one.

281
00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:42.539
It happens very quickly and it's kind of...

282
00:18:42.539 --> 00:18:46.980
Charms it up and starts doing a Sylvester McCoy magic tricks with the 4 inch tape, doesn't it?

283
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:55.799
Yeah, I think that's a, I think the important distinction here is Cornish proves that he can do his job, whereas whereas Dr. Lawrence really couldn't do his job.

284
00:18:55.859 --> 00:18:59.400
And Cornish is intelligent and sympathetic and a rounded human being.

285
00:18:59.460 --> 00:19:01.680
I believe he's a real person that we're watching.

286
00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:04.920
I don't ever sort of thought by myself critically...

287
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:09.420
Sorry, I don't even find myself critiquing his performance, the luck I actually do with the lead in this.

288
00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:18.000
Yeah And I think Pertwee's doctor actually respects when someone butts heads back with him because that's the defining aspect of his relationship.

289
00:19:18.059 --> 00:19:19.980
It's a typical narcissist ploy too.

290
00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:20.700
I won't know.

291
00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:21.480
Well, it is.

292
00:19:21.539 --> 00:19:23.400
The bully only respects you if you bully back.

293
00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:27.960
I'm sure I'm not saying anything against the character of the doctor so far.

294
00:19:28.019 --> 00:19:29.640
Oh, he's a love story.

295
00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:31.619
It does...

296
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:32.640
I don't know, what do you think?

297
00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:39.480
I don't find I'm sitting comfortably with with how I loved the doctor as a little boy that John Pertley's performance.

298
00:19:39.539 --> 00:19:43.740
I thought he was superb and it was a lovely hangover from the things we liked, like the Avengers.

299
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:45.299
But now I'm just getting a hangover.

300
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:51.420
I'm finding that, yeah, he's antagonistic out of, it just seems arrogance.

301
00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:59.279
I can't see any other reason for it I actually like it. because the thing to consider with the 3rd doctor is at least for his 1st 3 years.

302
00:19:59.339 --> 00:20:00.960
Of course he's annoyed.

303
00:20:01.019 --> 00:20:06.119
He has had the entire university's disposal and now he's stuck with these stupid apes.

304
00:20:06.180 --> 00:20:09.000
How is his performance any different from Eccleston?

305
00:20:09.059 --> 00:20:11.279
You could say that Billy was certainly arrogant.

306
00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:12.359
And yes, indeed.

307
00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:16.740
Eccles gets to be, but there's always causality.

308
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:18.420
There's always a good reason for it.

309
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:21.779
Whereas I think that pertly sense to jumping with it.

310
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:22.559
What do you think, though?

311
00:20:22.619 --> 00:20:23.759
What about Capaldi, though?

312
00:20:23.819 --> 00:20:25.619
Yeah, that's a whole new thing.

313
00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:32.339
But don't you notice how they keep throwing in the sensitivity of Capaldi and the fact that he's just so distanced from everybody else around him.

314
00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:36.059
He can't, he's not really seeing people as the rest of us see people.

315
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:37.859
He's much more alien than person.

316
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:40.019
Yeah, but I think it's the most alien doctor we've had.

317
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.599
Because perjury is patrician, really.

318
00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:45.420
But very, very, it's not even earthy.

319
00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:46.799
He's very Surrey in Chelsea.

320
00:20:46.859 --> 00:20:48.539
He's really never left the home penalty.

321
00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:49.559
No, that's what I mean.

322
00:20:49.619 --> 00:20:51.000
He's very contritious. very upperclass.

323
00:20:51.059 --> 00:20:52.920
He sort of comes in and he...

324
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:55.259
Yeah, for a man who's seen the universe and seen the Del Fonds.

325
00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:57.779
I think it was just on a video and a saucy video from France.

326
00:20:57.839 --> 00:20:59.759
I don't think he's ever actually gone.

327
00:20:59.819 --> 00:21:05.940
The thing is, so when the 3rd doctor realises that he's really getting someone's go-top.

328
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:12.240
He will he will often back down and especially with female characters such as Ms. Dawson.

329
00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:15.779
He will actually go, okay, I've gone a bit too far.

330
00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:25.799
I should try and be nice now. which again is something we see in Capaldi when Clara tells him off for telling Courtney Wilkes, Courtney.

331
00:21:25.859 --> 00:21:26.700
Courtney Love.

332
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:27.299
Yeah.

333
00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:29.339
Courtney Act, yeah.

334
00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:32.940
For telling for telling Courtney that, you know, she'll never have out to anything.

335
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:36.779
Dr. Rachel Jones around says, oh, okay, fine, you know, I'll tell her she's wonderful.

336
00:21:37.259 --> 00:21:42.900
Perley's very much like that. like, you know, you might want to, he might be able to help you, doctor.

337
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:46.740
He is in charge and straight away the charm comes on and look, I can help you, old chap.

338
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:49.859
You know, I'm not saying he's a perfect character by any means.

339
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:53.519
I think he's the most flawed doctor we had but I do think it's conscious.

340
00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:55.440
But I wonder...

341
00:21:55.500 --> 00:21:59.579
I'm sorry, you know, if I Capaldi charming with it and I'm not finding charm with this so far.

342
00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:01.619
I'm not a big fan.

343
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:03.000
He's my 1st doctor.

344
00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:04.619
Mine too, yeah.

345
00:22:04.740 --> 00:22:04.980
Yeah.

346
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:06.480
And mine.

347
00:22:06.539 --> 00:22:08.339
Oh, good.

348
00:22:08.460 --> 00:22:10.319
I remember my 1st Doctor Who was Carnival Monsters.

349
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:12.059
I think we've been here.

350
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:15.480
It's a great story. to his best, haven't we?

351
00:22:15.539 --> 00:22:17.700
I've got such affection for Katie.

352
00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:19.619
And why you're dressed as a mini scope, yes.

353
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:25.980
I actually think one of the things that will happen in the reboot next season and the introduction of Katie is something that we'll...

354
00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:29.460
I'm sorry, is Katie Manning coming back for season 9 of with Peter Capaldi?

355
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:33.000
There are those photos of her in the control room of Capaldi.

356
00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:35.759
That's the best spoiler alert of this podcast.

357
00:22:35.819 --> 00:22:40.440
He does seem to be having photos taken with Doctor Who Companions from the past series.

358
00:22:40.500 --> 00:22:43.079
And I like, I think he's just going, the fans are going to go nuts.

359
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:44.279
He's going nuts.

360
00:22:44.339 --> 00:22:45.599
He's the biggest fanboy of the lot.

361
00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:49.619
I don't mind his jumping, timey, whimey thing we're doing here because can I just have an indulgent moment?

362
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:50.339
You can cut it out.

363
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:53.160
I really want Katie Manny in season nine, please.

364
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:54.839
She's so good.

365
00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:56.819
Can she just, even if it's just a guesty.

366
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:57.660
Can we just have?

367
00:22:57.720 --> 00:22:58.200
She's great.

368
00:22:58.259 --> 00:23:00.420
Have you seen her in the Sarah Jane Adventures episode?

369
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:01.680
Yeah, it's all my all-time fate.

370
00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:03.000
That's wonderful, isn't it?

371
00:23:03.059 --> 00:23:06.599
So you were 20 or 21 when I last saw you.

372
00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:07.200
Now look at you.

373
00:23:07.259 --> 00:23:08.640
It looks like someone's baked you.

374
00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:11.880
Imagine what the Bounty will say.

375
00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:14.279
Oh, what she'll say that?

376
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:16.559
Oh, I just hope she'll say, oh, God, again.

377
00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:19.380
Well, I'm not the old, only old one now, dear.

378
00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:21.539
Yes, yes, she'll be brilliant, yeah.

379
00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:24.420
I mean, she humanises pertly.

380
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:25.980
But she's not here yet, is she?

381
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:28.200
Don't you think Carrie Human?

382
00:23:28.259 --> 00:23:29.099
I'm sorry don't you think?

383
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:31.319
I should say Le sure humanises the doctor.

384
00:23:31.380 --> 00:23:34.440
Is that cliffhanger where she hangs off the weir?

385
00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:36.059
That's the cliffhanger to episode three?

386
00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:43.019
Because I think that means that she spends 4 episodes basically separated from him and sidelined in the plot.

387
00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:46.980
So we don't actually see that much of them together in this story.

388
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:50.220
We do see one very important scene of them together, though.

389
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:54.599
I think it's in episode 6 when they kidnap the doctor. and when they bring him in and truck him on the floor.

390
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:57.359
When he wakes up, she's already kneeling.

391
00:23:57.420 --> 00:23:58.079
It's a touching moment.

392
00:23:58.740 --> 00:24:00.000
I hope they hurt you.

393
00:24:00.059 --> 00:24:00.299
Yes.

394
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:02.579
Yeah, especially with doctor.

395
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:04.619
He is so loud and so ebullient.

396
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:07.019
When he's saying have a, it's a whisper.

397
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:07.380
Yeah.

398
00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:07.920
You know?

399
00:24:07.980 --> 00:24:09.839
And it's not, are we being listened to?

400
00:24:09.900 --> 00:24:10.500
it's right now.

401
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:12.059
It's you and me.

402
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:12.480
That's it.

403
00:24:12.539 --> 00:24:13.859
That really works for me too.

404
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:18.299
Just because it's such a change of weather from how you normally has been.

405
00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:30.180
And I think, you know, more than any other time in the classic series, that, you know what, I'm going to say, more than Billy and Barbara, that is a moment where I get, you know, the doctor loves this woman.

406
00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:31.259
Okay.

407
00:24:31.259 --> 00:24:39.900
You know, or at the very least has a very strong emotion towards her that he can't quite quantify because he is such a distant character, emotionally distant and unavailable.

408
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:48.180
There are terrific, mutually respectful team, which I think she's the most feminist character we've had in the series and possibly we'll have for a while.

409
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:49.619
She's actually...

410
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:51.059
She doesn't make any noise about it.

411
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:51.779
She just does it.

412
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:52.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

413
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:53.700
And she is...

414
00:24:53.700 --> 00:24:54.539
She's Aunt Travis.

415
00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:56.460
Thank you, because yeah, we were going to have her, weren't we?

416
00:24:56.519 --> 00:25:08.099
You know, there are, there are 2, there are 2 moments in, I think, in, inside Urians where she tells the brigadier often than the doctor undermines her, like the brigadier tells her to do something, she says, no, don't be so silly.

417
00:25:08.220 --> 00:25:09.240
I'm going to do that.

418
00:25:09.299 --> 00:25:12.240
And the doctor says, no, Liz, do as you're told, you know.

419
00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:21.000
And that's always a bit of a shame because she is, she's not, you know, Sarah Jane in season 11 where she comes in telling everyone what a big feminist she is.

420
00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:37.859
She is just, you know, a terribly accomplished and self-assured person with lots of degrees and lots of ability, and she's very no nonsense, and she is very snarky and very funny, and she does, and she, you know, in that in that cliffhanger to episode 3 where she's dangling on the weird.

421
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:39.960
She does smack that one guy.

422
00:25:40.019 --> 00:25:41.880
Pretty nicely, too.

423
00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:46.440
She just compels people to respect her because she expects respect and turn.

424
00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:57.900
I want to refer you all to having another look if since we're going out at this time of Benedict Cumberbatch's role of touring because Kira Knightley plays the character of Joan Clarke.

425
00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:00.900
I don't remember reading in any of the books about Alan Teering as being there.

426
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:11.940
But anyway, the character is pewterly sure right down to the week, a very clever woman who's disregarded by the establishment, but soon proves herself to be the equal of the doctor character in Alan Turing.

427
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:13.680
So yeah, have a look at that.

428
00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:22.619
But this character, this very smart woman has featured through film and through TV for a long time, not so much previously, but certainly very much in the future.

429
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:25.259
I think she's a character, not just from the 80s, but from now.

430
00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:30.480
And it's one of the main reasons I really like Carol and John as we sure, she's a timeless character.

431
00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:34.140
She could be up with Capaldi next year and she wouldn't look dated at all.

432
00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:37.799
It's very telling that of all the companion characters.

433
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:43.740
The one who got the spinoff series from BBB wasn't really short.

434
00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:53.700
The probe series, because she is so interesting, it has enough of her own thing going on that, you know, you can have stories about her.

435
00:26:53.700 --> 00:26:57.839
And, you know, the series does also feature Louise Jameson in a new role.

436
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:02.099
What sort of probes, were they mind, mind probes?

437
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:05.519
Well, in a couple of episodes, they probed Peter Davidson and Mark Gaitis.

438
00:27:05.579 --> 00:27:07.019
So there you go. like you do.

439
00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:08.700
Should I kiss him now?

440
00:27:10.140 --> 00:27:12.599
I'll kiss Peter Dobes.

441
00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:18.180
God, I hope everyone's seen the kidnappers schedule on the DVD, you know.

442
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:20.460
Send your own drawings and send them in, yeah.

443
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:26.400
I'm going to have a lot of work justifying this bit in the show notes.

444
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:30.180
Probe's not that bad?

445
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:32.160
I've never even heard of it.

446
00:27:32.220 --> 00:27:33.420
You okay.

447
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:34.079
That's good.

448
00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:38.940
Right, spinoff series, preternatural observation.

449
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:40.799
That would be Pope.

450
00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:42.000
Damn it.

451
00:27:42.059 --> 00:27:44.400
Oh, could be prevent.

452
00:27:44.460 --> 00:27:44.700
Okay.

453
00:27:44.700 --> 00:27:46.740
Oh, um, rapey observation.

454
00:27:46.859 --> 00:27:50.640
I think it stands for preternatural observation and examination unit.

455
00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:51.960
Oh, dear.

456
00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:53.579
That actually makes it worse.

457
00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:55.859
It's Lee Shaw doing the X-Files.

458
00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:56.519
Yeah, yeah.

459
00:27:57.059 --> 00:28:05.099
Or that lovely thing they do with Pamela Salem and the other and the other characters from Remembrance of the Daleks.

460
00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:06.539
Oh, countermeasures.

461
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:07.319
Oh, it's great.

462
00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:13.500
Well, probe is, yeah, it's Lee Shaw and her friend who is a detective inspector played by Louise Jameson.

463
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:16.920
And they're investigating supernatural events.

464
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:20.819
She's the Kathy Burke character from the French and Saunders alien, the movie.

465
00:28:20.940 --> 00:28:22.140
Oh, excellent.

466
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:25.380
But what if she thinks she's scorny?

467
00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:28.200
But what's really, what's really great.

468
00:28:28.259 --> 00:28:31.920
And I think it's a wonderful addition to Liz's character is Liz smokes a pipe.

469
00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:33.839
Do you know she does in real life?

470
00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:34.859
Her daughter.

471
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:41.759
Her daughter Daisy Ashford, certainly, a bit Doco on spearhead on the spearhead Blu-ray that, you know, mum smoked a pipe.

472
00:28:41.819 --> 00:28:47.940
She was really eccentric and terrific and much more like the character of Lee Shaw than people realise.

473
00:28:48.059 --> 00:28:50.460
Now, okay, Nathan, you're making a paint expression.

474
00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:54.480
I should point out these were written by Mark Gates.

475
00:28:54.539 --> 00:28:55.140
Oh, okay.

476
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:56.339
So the scripts are quite good.

477
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:58.200
Mark Gators appears and I think 2 of them.

478
00:28:58.259 --> 00:28:59.940
Peter Davidson appears in 2 of them.

479
00:29:00.059 --> 00:29:01.259
I've been lucky enough to hear one.

480
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:01.799
I loved it.

481
00:29:01.859 --> 00:29:02.819
Yeah, I love who there is.

482
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:04.740
So yeah, there's there's 4 in total.

483
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:06.180
Are they audios?

484
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:06.720
They're video.

485
00:29:06.779 --> 00:29:09.059
They're BBV, but I switched it.

486
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:11.160
So they're all available on...

487
00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:12.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

488
00:29:12.299 --> 00:29:15.660
So, yeah, I think I've got copies.

489
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:17.039
I think they're well worth checking out.

490
00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:20.880
I look quite well, actually, they look quite early 70s, Doctor Who, don't they?

491
00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:23.880
Yeah, they're shot on, they're shot on video, handicam.

492
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:25.140
Yeah.

493
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:27.420
There you go.

494
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:31.920
So she went on to have a full rich and satisfying life despite going back to Cambridge and never seeing the doctor again.

495
00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:33.900
Oh, spoiler alert.

496
00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:34.920
Let's find out why.

497
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:49.380
I'm very worried about security at Space Control given that Regan breaks into the complex and sabotages the fuel for the doctor's launch. filling it with extra badly spelled M3 variant.

498
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:59.220
And then the very next episode he breaks in again and poisons the doctor's sexual air supply as he is in quarantine on the way back.

499
00:29:59.339 --> 00:30:04.559
But you've got to remember that he's got a general in his pocket or vice versa.

500
00:30:04.619 --> 00:30:09.779
And that's something I find really great about this story because, I mean, we should talk about the genesis of it.

501
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:13.019
It was, 1st of all, written by David Whitaker.

502
00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:17.460
He wrote a full set of scripts, but he wrote them for Pat, Wendy, and Fraser.

503
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:17.880
Yeah.

504
00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:20.339
And so the format changed.

505
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:21.599
It was originally set in the far future.

506
00:30:21.660 --> 00:30:28.200
The format changed and so they had to change the characters and it got to the point where he was just rewriting and rewriting it, but it was actually getting worse.

507
00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:34.559
You know, the way when sometimes you go over something and over something and over something to the point that you had nothing original to add to it.

508
00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:37.140
It's like actors on a stage comedy.

509
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:42.359
A lot of actors on a stage comedy say they can't stay in the role forever because eventually the jokes aren't funny anymore.

510
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:52.200
Terrence Dix demanded that David Whitter could be paid in full and said, right, I'll write it with Mac Hawk and my assistant, Trevor Ray.

511
00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:53.640
He'd also moved to Australia.

512
00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:55.440
Yeah, he was busy moving to Australia.

513
00:30:55.500 --> 00:30:57.539
Yeah, it was totally difficult doing all of that.

514
00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:02.700
And interestingly, this was actually Trevor Ray's last work on the program.

515
00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:05.640
Allegedly, he had a very low opinion of Mac Hulk.

516
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:07.980
Well, that's...

517
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:09.240
Yeah, exactly.

518
00:31:09.299 --> 00:31:10.859
To the point that...

519
00:31:10.859 --> 00:31:20.160
Thank you for that pertly... to the point that apparently Trevor Ray in the hearing of Terrence Dix called Mac Hulk, Hack Mulk.

520
00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:21.119
Brilliant.

521
00:31:21.180 --> 00:31:22.980
And terrible witch.

522
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:26.400
Terence pretty much went on the whole, you'll work in this town again.

523
00:31:26.460 --> 00:31:27.960
How dare you insult my mentor?

524
00:31:28.019 --> 00:31:29.400
is absolutely fantastic.

525
00:31:29.460 --> 00:31:31.140
You know who else we get in this one, though?

526
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:33.480
We get civil shaps.

527
00:31:33.539 --> 00:31:36.839
We do get serious. doing another fabulous cereal chefs.

528
00:31:36.900 --> 00:31:39.119
First, before we move on to Silver Shaps.

529
00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:41.160
What I wanted to say was, that's okay.

530
00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:45.539
Malcolm Hawke said you can only have a mad sign to store an alien invasion.

531
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:50.160
It looks like what's happened here is Malcolm Holt's inverted that we don't have a mad scientist. a mad soldier.

532
00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:53.400
Ah, we don't have an alien invasion.

533
00:31:53.460 --> 00:31:55.559
We're keeping them prisoner, right?

534
00:31:55.619 --> 00:31:56.759
We're the baddies in this story.

535
00:31:56.819 --> 00:31:58.019
Nice, nice, nice.

536
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:01.079
But we also have Mr. Jeffrey Beaver's as Private Johnson.

537
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:02.759
Oh, yes, we've got Jeffrey Beavers.

538
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:08.160
Oh, I meant to notice him because he was at Lords of Time a couple of weeks ago, yeah. mentions that he's in it.

539
00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:11.039
Well, I think he's the one who gives Benton the Morse message.

540
00:32:11.099 --> 00:32:12.779
The doctor's sending it.

541
00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:13.980
He does, that's him.

542
00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:18.900
And I'm thinking, where's the scene where Dr. Lee Shaw comes across Private Johnson and Snigger Snigger?

543
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:21.119
There's a reason she can't come back next year, is it?

544
00:32:21.180 --> 00:32:23.279
God, that'd be wonderful.

545
00:32:23.339 --> 00:32:24.420
But yeah, Cyril Chaps.

546
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:25.799
Getting back to Cyril Shaps.

547
00:32:26.099 --> 00:32:28.799
Everyone's favourite Archie man drive.

548
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:30.900
Without that.

549
00:32:30.900 --> 00:32:33.720
And, you know, what about his death?

550
00:32:33.779 --> 00:32:36.119
He's sitting there expecting a lovely lunch.

551
00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:38.039
She lives...

552
00:32:38.099 --> 00:32:40.019
And it's like an ice.

553
00:32:40.019 --> 00:32:40.920
He's locked in the thing.

554
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:42.059
He does the face.

555
00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:45.900
No wonder people thought they were watching the Avengers.

556
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:47.819
Yes, very Avengers.

557
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:48.839
Who did that?

558
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:51.900
Wait, because it's Benton's voice, though.

559
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:54.240
Yeah, Benton kills him.

560
00:32:54.299 --> 00:32:55.559
Yeah, so...

561
00:32:55.559 --> 00:32:57.180
Who actually killed him?

562
00:32:57.240 --> 00:32:58.799
It actually looks like it is Benton.

563
00:32:58.859 --> 00:33:00.599
That's what, they're rewatching just for that?

564
00:33:00.660 --> 00:33:03.240
Because Benton has already said that exact same line.

565
00:33:03.299 --> 00:33:04.380
Yes, sir, I'll lock the door.

566
00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:06.240
So it sounds exactly the same.

567
00:33:06.299 --> 00:33:09.660
So the only, you know, unless Benton is a cold-hearted killer...

568
00:33:09.779 --> 00:33:10.680
Well, he just wants a bigger part.

569
00:33:11.339 --> 00:33:17.339
Well, like a certain person in terror of the verboids, who we won't mention for a while, but it's a very popular theory by Sir Gary Russell.

570
00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:19.200
Unless Benson is a mass murderer.

571
00:33:19.259 --> 00:33:21.480
He's just brought up the tray from the kitchen, hasn't looked at it.

572
00:33:21.539 --> 00:33:23.640
But as we see from Benton later, he eats everything.

573
00:33:23.700 --> 00:33:25.259
So it must be Benton.

574
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:26.339
Yeah, it's mentioned.

575
00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:27.599
Don't you kill still sharps?

576
00:33:27.660 --> 00:33:28.740
They'll get the recommend.

577
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:31.200
But it wasn't part of the conspiracy.

578
00:33:31.259 --> 00:33:33.539
He ate Cyril Champs as lunch.

579
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:38.039
He was really embarrassed about it. and didn't want him telling anyone.

580
00:33:38.099 --> 00:33:41.160
So he just shoved a nearby isotope in there.

581
00:33:41.220 --> 00:33:45.539
Yeah, because, you know, Benton just happens to keep those lying around for his ballroom dancing lessons.

582
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:46.680
Yeah, well, he wouldn't.

583
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:50.579
So now into woozy woo places now.

584
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:52.559
This was originally called Invaders from Mars.

585
00:33:52.619 --> 00:33:55.380
And then Carrie...

586
00:33:55.380 --> 00:33:56.759
Yeah, it's Carrie.

587
00:33:56.819 --> 00:34:03.720
They've made it to my, it's my, actually my favourite earlier on Big Finnish audio, so Paul McGann, written by Mark Gatis.

588
00:34:03.779 --> 00:34:04.500
People don't like it.

589
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:06.119
I know Gary Russell doesn't.

590
00:34:06.180 --> 00:34:07.200
You don't like it?

591
00:34:07.259 --> 00:34:08.579
I think it's fantastic.

592
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:09.300
It's wonderful.

593
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:10.500
That's my go-to.

594
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:14.159
You've got Simon Pegg and Jessica Stevenson.

595
00:34:14.219 --> 00:34:15.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

596
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:18.659
And it's in the 30s and it names awesome wells and it's just superb.

597
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:21.960
It's got it's got George Caluras from Keys of Madness.

598
00:34:22.019 --> 00:34:23.039
Oh, there you go, then.

599
00:34:23.099 --> 00:34:25.739
I listen to it in France, but I can't really remember.

600
00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:26.460
How exalted?

601
00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:27.840
I was paying attention.

602
00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:29.280
Probably a lot of apps.

603
00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:31.019
Yeah, yeah.

604
00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:33.300
What else could we say about this lovely?

605
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:34.860
Was this your story, but it was mine.

606
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:35.699
This was amazing.

607
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:38.280
But it's another example of having lots of overlapping plots.

608
00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:42.239
And again, much like war games, you know, written in a hurry by by Terence and Mac.

609
00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:43.739
The overlapping plots here.

610
00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:49.019
You've got the 1st rescue of the astronauts and they come back, but then you've got the conspiracy of kidnapping the astronauts.

611
00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:52.860
And then you've got the story about, well, the astronauts have been horribly irradiated.

612
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:56.699
So the doctor has to go up and rescue the astronauts again, but that doesn't work.

613
00:34:56.760 --> 00:35:00.840
And then you get the quote unquote invasion plotline, which is actually a forced invasion.

614
00:35:00.900 --> 00:35:04.920
And then you get the whole idea of, no, they're exploiting these aliens.

615
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:16.860
And then you get the climax is weird because it's somewhat anticlimactic, but at the same time, you're like, well, I don't really want to see a massive war and earth being bombed into submission.

616
00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:20.760
So an anticlimax is actually good on this occasion.

617
00:35:20.820 --> 00:35:22.500
Maybe if you're sweet.

618
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:25.800
I love the way they end it, just walking off the huge stairs.

619
00:35:25.860 --> 00:35:27.119
Cheerio, time to launch.

620
00:35:27.179 --> 00:35:29.159
And, you know, that's very strange, isn't it?

621
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:30.119
It's very English space.

622
00:35:30.179 --> 00:35:34.920
It could have been a finale for this, sure, because the doctor says, oh, she's far more qualified?

623
00:35:34.980 --> 00:35:35.880
You stay here, my dear.

624
00:35:35.940 --> 00:35:37.139
Just warmed her off.

625
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:40.139
Yeah, no, it's kind of like that. a nice handover if you look at it that way.

626
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:41.699
Well, they haven't quite got the message.

627
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:42.659
Gareth Roberts says.

628
00:35:43.139 --> 00:35:48.599
They haven't quite got the message to the show's formats changed and the doctor doesn't leave at the end of every story.

629
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:49.980
So we have a scene.

630
00:35:50.039 --> 00:36:00.360
He just leaves at the end of this story because we kind of used it. go back to his lovely cottage in Betsy. to go back to TV comic plan. fights the scarecrows of doom. like to think so.

631
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.820
Well, remember, they forced his regeneration.

632
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:06.119
Godwin nerds. don't know what you're talking about.

633
00:36:06.179 --> 00:36:07.619
So what are you saying about Gareth Roberts?

634
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:14.820
I know not to labour it, but if you swap around Inferno and Ambassador's Deck in the story or that, Liz Shaw gets a leaving suit.

635
00:36:14.940 --> 00:36:21.900
Because she gets to stay behind and interpret like a to liaise would be and...

636
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:24.659
Which, you know, it's a pretty good job for a physicist.

637
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:25.559
Yeah, yeah.

638
00:36:34.619 --> 00:36:41.039
Here we are passing through from warp point into warp 2 into the world of the Mohole project, Inferno.

639
00:36:41.099 --> 00:36:48.179
And this was mine again, and thank you, Randomiser, because this is probably my favourite.

640
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:49.500
Is that why we're all in comedy beards?

641
00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:50.760
It's really not very good.

642
00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:53.940
I've lost all my depth perception because of this eye patch.

643
00:36:54.000 --> 00:37:02.940
How could it not be good when you've got exactly the same exposition to exactly the same character in 2 different universes when the doctor explains the plot to the brigadier, not ones, but twice?

644
00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:06.360
the same story embedded inside itself twice.

645
00:37:06.420 --> 00:37:08.699
Yeah, which is not an uncomfortable position.

646
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:11.760
I'm taken back to the Tadurkum.

647
00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:19.500
This is kind of its own version of that scene in James Cameron's Titanic when you've got...

648
00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:27.000
When you've got Leonardo and Kate Winslet in a car in a boat. in a studio on an ocean.

649
00:37:27.059 --> 00:37:29.039
You've actually got a story within a story here.

650
00:37:29.099 --> 00:37:31.320
I happen you're not like this story. terrific.

651
00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:33.360
It's got the best cliffhanger of all time.

652
00:37:33.420 --> 00:37:34.320
Oh, great.

653
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:35.880
Which one's your 1st one?

654
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:37.260
The one what Kate Orman said.

655
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:38.639
With the countdown.

656
00:37:38.699 --> 00:37:39.360
That's it.

657
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:41.280
Where the countdown goes over the closing credit.

658
00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:41.940
Yes.

659
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:43.139
Yeah, and and...

660
00:37:43.139 --> 00:37:45.840
And the screening and the music rises after...

661
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:49.019
Yeah, and then you get the... so many good Kurfackers in this.

662
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:51.420
I mean you've got Benton threatening to shoot the doctor.

663
00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:58.320
And it's so weird because in just a few shorter appearances, John Levine has actually crafted a character you really like.

664
00:37:58.380 --> 00:38:09.059
I mean, this is the 1st time you actually see Benton's character when he's sort of giggling about the Brigadier's photo, but you see enough of him in the last few stories to know that he's quite an affable chap and whatnot.

665
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:10.019
So when he's...

666
00:38:10.019 --> 00:38:11.940
Other than when he's murdering Cyril Shepps.

667
00:38:12.659 --> 00:38:21.480
But when he is, um, not exactly transformed, but when there is this other version of him who is callous and really sadistic.

668
00:38:21.539 --> 00:38:24.059
And he plays it very well.

669
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:28.860
He sort of says in the making of that he was worried he was too gentle, but no, he plays it really well, in my opinion.

670
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:44.699
It's actually quite shocking and he's really believably nasty and therefore it is such a job and I think he's possibly the 1st heroic character in Doctor to have a cliffhanger that he's turned, you know, aside from the doctor itself.

671
00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:51.360
I think he's actually, I actually think he does a very good job in very quickly selling the parallel world.

672
00:38:51.420 --> 00:38:54.780
It's the most salient and that's the most controversial.

673
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:55.920
For someone who hasn't seen this show.

674
00:38:55.980 --> 00:38:56.639
So, yeah.

675
00:38:56.699 --> 00:38:57.000
Yeah.

676
00:38:57.059 --> 00:38:57.900
It's another base.

677
00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:00.119
It's another intransition base command.

678
00:39:00.179 --> 00:39:06.840
It's the whole thing, another scientific establishment, another source of unlimited cheap power.

679
00:39:06.900 --> 00:39:07.980
So what happens?

680
00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:11.760
and his grammarous assistant to called out there. visiting.

681
00:39:11.820 --> 00:39:19.619
They're not called out, the doctors, pretending that he wants to consult there so he can use the power from their nuclear generation.

682
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:21.119
Which is great.

683
00:39:21.179 --> 00:39:26.460
Because that's obviously Barry Letts going, you know, he wouldn't just sit around and accept this meekly. trying to get off the planet.

684
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:33.420
But he's also kind of a bit obnoxious and stuff and he is he insists that the brigadier investigates, but it's all just a cover.

685
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:38.460
So 2 episodes where we're in there, he has conflict with the base commander.

686
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:40.739
He's, you know, obnoxious, but actually quite funny.

687
00:39:40.860 --> 00:39:44.159
The line about Stalman's liver playing him up again.

688
00:39:44.219 --> 00:39:45.539
Like, he's actually pretty funny.

689
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:49.380
And then he slips into in episode two.

690
00:39:49.380 --> 00:39:50.820
End of episode two.

691
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:51.719
That's the clip.

692
00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:53.760
He slips into a parallel world.

693
00:39:53.820 --> 00:39:57.059
He actually spends 4 episodes in that parallel world.

694
00:39:57.119 --> 00:39:58.320
Yeah, 3 through six.

695
00:39:58.380 --> 00:40:02.699
He comes back for the resolution of the story in episode seven.

696
00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:05.579
And the parallel world is a fascist parallel world.

697
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:07.920
It's, you know, there's elements of Big Brother in it.

698
00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:15.420
There's that big poster that says unity is strength with a picture of the smiling dictator on the wall at the heart when he 1st appears.

699
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:18.179
The royal family we've learned have been massacred.

700
00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:19.920
And it was in the mid 40s.

701
00:40:19.980 --> 00:40:25.380
So the implication is definitely that either Germany or Russia or possibly both took over Britain at that time.

702
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:29.039
The defence of the Republic Act, 1943 gets mentioned.

703
00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:32.099
So it's in the mid 40s, you know, that seems to be established.

704
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:33.780
We're not working for unit anymore.

705
00:40:33.900 --> 00:40:43.380
It's the Republican security forces and the Mohole project is in fact a scientific labour camp.

706
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:46.019
So they're all working there under duress.

707
00:40:46.139 --> 00:40:49.380
Did they call it the mohole project in this as well?

708
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:52.019
No, because you know where this goes back to in real life.

709
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:55.679
This was something that America talked about in 1957.

710
00:40:55.860 --> 00:41:03.000
Um, there was, you know, you know, it was actually the 57 consumption. everyone who's listening would also know that it was international geophysical year.

711
00:41:03.059 --> 00:41:06.599
Oh, hold your nerdy badge up with pride.

712
00:41:06.659 --> 00:41:07.980
Yeah, that are amazing.

713
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:08.699
They rocked you.

714
00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:10.139
They were just insane.

715
00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:11.880
First hats were just ridiculous.

716
00:41:11.940 --> 00:41:14.760
Britain sent off Dr. Vivian Folks.

717
00:41:14.820 --> 00:41:17.340
Vivian Fay, Dr. Vivian Fay.

718
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:19.739
Yes, off on another polar, lovely thing.

719
00:41:19.860 --> 00:41:24.659
But America, America was drilling into the depths.

720
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:31.619
And this theory all came about 100 years previously with a Croatian geologist, Andrea Mohorovachic.

721
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:36.480
But that was just called the moho project or the mohole project, for sure.

722
00:41:36.539 --> 00:41:47.820
But they had envisaged that there would be the existence of between the crust and the mantle, this magmari, Uzi, Captain Kremen stuff that could be used as a source of energy.

723
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:48.239
I know.

724
00:41:48.300 --> 00:41:49.019
How nuts is that?

725
00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:50.280
1957.

726
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:54.719
Buga Sputnik, there was great stuff going on just onto the toast.

727
00:41:54.780 --> 00:41:59.460
So yeah, this thing was still being talked about when the story was put put on.

728
00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:11.099
Yeah, Don Horton, the author, actually contacted both the Russian and America embassies because Russia had also tried a drilling project of similar nature and both projects stopped very suddenly.

729
00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:12.840
And when he tried to get information on them.

730
00:42:12.900 --> 00:42:18.059
The embassy staff at 1st said, oh, yeah, sure, I'll go find that out and then call him back and said, that's completely classified.

731
00:42:18.059 --> 00:42:18.599
Why are you asking?

732
00:42:18.659 --> 00:42:19.139
Yep.

733
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:22.619
So they muttering things about werewolves and staff as well.

734
00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:24.179
There was that werewolf thing.

735
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:27.119
Yeah, something like heemable, stuff.

736
00:42:27.179 --> 00:42:31.079
So I will say that the werewolves, the Primords.

737
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:34.860
Well, they were the main sticking point for rock.

738
00:42:34.980 --> 00:42:36.960
Like when he was giving me assaults on the episode.

739
00:42:37.019 --> 00:42:45.659
He was like, you know, what a great sci-fi idea, and it's a really different way to do an evil twin story, and it's great how the 2 plots evolve concurrently.

740
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:47.940
And then you've got bleeping werewolves.

741
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:51.960
Why is it always bleeping green??

742
00:42:52.019 --> 00:42:54.960
It's actually after Kernan Doyle's 1928 story.

743
00:42:55.019 --> 00:42:56.880
Did you realise he was still around and writing back then?

744
00:42:56.940 --> 00:43:01.079
It's called when the world screamed and it's pretty much the same thing that happens.

745
00:43:01.139 --> 00:43:06.840
Hairy, great, thrusty beasts with clamorous claws and jump up in...

746
00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:08.219
And plastic.

747
00:43:08.219 --> 00:43:15.119
Try and have their wolfy, hairy way with young geologists in pith helmets. right?

748
00:43:15.179 --> 00:43:16.559
It does, doesn't it?

749
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:23.219
So, so they cut out that you can get enough kind of door. think you might be able to.

750
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:27.480
So the big question is what's the parallel universe for?

751
00:43:27.539 --> 00:43:29.340
I mean, why do we have stretch?

752
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:36.900
Well, I think it's also from a story point of view and from a character point of view, it's to allow the doctor to lose.

753
00:43:37.019 --> 00:43:39.239
Oh, yeah, well said.

754
00:43:39.300 --> 00:43:41.639
Because the problem here is because he's saving earth.

755
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:45.059
The earth can't be destroyed because the viewer at home.

756
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:48.239
That's too much of a suspension of disbelief.

757
00:43:48.300 --> 00:43:58.139
But if you have a different earth, that can be destroyed and it can also then threaten the earthware on and that's where the threat comes from.

758
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:02.519
So the Primords are a threat, but the Primords are never really a threat that they're going to overrun the world.

759
00:44:02.579 --> 00:44:03.539
There's only 2 or 3 of them.

760
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:06.659
There's more in the parallel world than in our world.

761
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:12.659
But the threat is coming from the fact that not only has one version verse been destroyed.

762
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:18.000
The other version of Earth could be destroyed, and it's a great thing in the 5 episode where, you know what?

763
00:44:18.059 --> 00:44:23.519
If you hadn't seen the doctor go through everything he's gone through the parallel world, of course he's going to look completely insane.

764
00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:28.920
Yeah, I mean, he does come out and sort of start smashing things up with a big wrench and stuff.

765
00:44:28.980 --> 00:44:31.500
Like he doesn't really help his cause very much.

766
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:37.019
And he does know by this point that Stalman's been infected by the goo that comes up the pipe.

767
00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:37.619
Yes.

768
00:44:37.619 --> 00:44:43.860
And he doesn't say, you know, by the way, have a look at Salmon. his palms are looking pretty hairy at the moment or anything like that.

769
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:45.780
So he doesn't really help.

770
00:44:45.840 --> 00:45:01.019
But look, I think that that allowing the doctor to lose is quite a good reason for it, and certainly, I think episode 6 is spectacularly good, where the world is, like they, penetration 0 happens, like there are, there are 2 episodes.

771
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:01.679
I know.

772
00:45:01.739 --> 00:45:04.019
I want to say penetration 0 again.

773
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:06.480
I'm going to say mirror, mirror.

774
00:45:06.539 --> 00:45:08.639
We're not back to Star Trek yet, are we?

775
00:45:08.699 --> 00:45:13.380
No, so, um, oh, no, Star Trek had been on in 1970, but I mean, we just haven't referenced it again.

776
00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:15.719
It's the Har Avengers for the 70s, isn't it?

777
00:45:15.780 --> 00:45:18.659
Because, you know, this is the mirror, mirror, episode.

778
00:45:18.659 --> 00:45:21.719
Except except the baddies all shave off their beards.

779
00:45:21.780 --> 00:45:24.420
Instead of having...

780
00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:26.699
And we don't actually get the antidoctor.

781
00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:28.019
You know how everyone wears white.

782
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:31.440
It's the villains and those fabulous green glasses that Starman wears.

783
00:45:31.500 --> 00:45:35.579
We don't actually get the opposite doctor in all black with a black goatee and black gloves to.

784
00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:39.000
Ooh, maybe next, but I don't want to ruin it for everyone.

785
00:45:39.059 --> 00:45:43.980
So there's 2 episodes in the power universe before penetration 0 and then 2 episodes.

786
00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:45.659
So the parallel universe is...

787
00:45:45.780 --> 00:45:49.679
So Brandon has said that it's because it allows the doctor to lose.

788
00:45:49.739 --> 00:45:57.300
And I think there's a lot to be said for that because those 2 episodes after penetration 0 win the world's falling down around them.

789
00:45:57.300 --> 00:46:01.800
And there's that real fatal desperation about them and all of that sort of thing.

790
00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:07.380
And you get that incredible flary film work, you know, where it looks really hot and stuff.

791
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:09.719
I think those are really, really good.

792
00:46:09.780 --> 00:46:13.380
And I think the Cliffhanger to episode 6 is great, you know.

793
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:16.920
And so I think that that is perhaps the most convincing reason for it.

794
00:46:16.980 --> 00:46:21.360
I think other reasons might be to allow the actors to camp it up and play something different.

795
00:46:21.420 --> 00:46:22.380
Do you know what I mean?

796
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:23.820
Right.

797
00:46:23.820 --> 00:46:26.820
The Mirror Universe episodes are that in Star Trek.

798
00:46:26.820 --> 00:46:29.699
Rise of the Cyberman is very much that in...

799
00:46:29.699 --> 00:46:31.739
Carry to put on a Tara King wig.

800
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:32.099
Yeah.

801
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:39.900
The weird thing is, though, section leader, Elizabeth Shaw, brigade leader, Lethbridge Stewart, platoon under leader Benton.

802
00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:44.579
They all play it really straight. and mean and nasty.

803
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:47.699
It is camping a way because it's not what we're used to.

804
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:51.659
But you don't doubt that these people could just mess you up.

805
00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:54.119
So the real universe is the camp one.

806
00:46:54.179 --> 00:46:56.400
No, no, the brigade leader is really camp.

807
00:46:56.460 --> 00:47:00.599
He's really funny and he gets more and more panicked and crazy and over the top.

808
00:47:00.659 --> 00:47:02.340
Yeah, that's great.

809
00:47:02.340 --> 00:47:05.340
And then the movement at the end, it gets beaten up by a scientist.

810
00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:14.880
And then Liz, Liz, you know, Liz, Elizabeth Shaw becomes a lot more like our Liz towards the end and she eventually gets to kill the brigadier and stuff like that.

811
00:47:14.940 --> 00:47:16.559
All of that stuff's really fun.

812
00:47:16.619 --> 00:47:18.239
That gives them something different to do.

813
00:47:18.300 --> 00:47:23.099
You remember the famous some eye patch story that used to get told at convention.

814
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:24.179
Oh, I never heard that one.

815
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:30.599
So the famous iPad story for those of you at home who have just awoken.

816
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:32.039
Are we going to do the iPad story?

817
00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:33.599
Are you going to do the accent?

818
00:47:33.719 --> 00:47:40.679
Those of you who have awoken from Silurian hibernation and haven't heard anything that's gone on in a Doctor Who convention forever.

819
00:47:40.739 --> 00:47:48.960
Nick Courtney wears an eye patch and has no fake moustache, which is a little bit of a relief, actually, when he's in the parallel world in his 1st scene.

820
00:47:49.019 --> 00:47:50.280
He doesn't have rounds.

821
00:47:50.340 --> 00:47:51.599
He doesn't have lips like a slug.

822
00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:53.280
We always wonder what the moustache was for.

823
00:47:53.340 --> 00:47:53.579
Yeah.

824
00:47:53.639 --> 00:48:01.800
So he swivels around in his chair for the very 1st time to reveal he's got an eye patch and every all the other actors in the room are wearing eye patches.

825
00:48:01.860 --> 00:48:03.780
Oh, my...

826
00:48:03.780 --> 00:48:07.079
Nick doesn't pat an eyelid because he's an old trooper.

827
00:48:07.139 --> 00:48:10.559
Sorry, I just lost a lung from apoplexy there. hilarious.

828
00:48:10.619 --> 00:48:11.099
Yeah.

829
00:48:11.099 --> 00:48:17.280
No, they are... in the power.

830
00:48:17.340 --> 00:48:19.079
They were naked apart from me, I patches.

831
00:48:19.139 --> 00:48:23.340
Yeah, that's not normally mentioned, but it is an integral part of the anecdote.

832
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:26.280
I've been a bit quiet because I've been looking something up.

833
00:48:26.340 --> 00:48:27.119
Have you?

834
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:42.300
And that is that Inferno... in the UK, Inferno, in the UK, the closing episode... went out in the same week as Star Trek Mirror, Mirror, premiered on the BBC.

835
00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:43.500
Oh, there you go.

836
00:48:43.500 --> 00:48:44.579
How's he bouncy that?

837
00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:45.780
So they were ahead again.

838
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:47.280
Yeah, I mean a week.

839
00:48:47.340 --> 00:48:49.559
Yeah, they were ahead again for British broadcast.

840
00:48:49.619 --> 00:48:51.239
Yeah, but the episode was 3 years old.

841
00:48:51.300 --> 00:48:56.099
Oh, doesn't mean to say they would have seen it because the aunts of this as we've mentioned are a lot older.

842
00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:56.940
Absolutely.

843
00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:14.400
So yeah, but the other the other reason, and this is, Santa forgets a bit cross with the with the parallel universe because he calls it the most egregious bit of padding and delaying tactics ever, to interrupt a story and tell exactly the same story again and then go back to the original story.

844
00:49:14.460 --> 00:49:17.940
And there are 2 objections here, and I think that they're both really interesting.

845
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:29.219
One is that you've got the opportunity for some kind of thematic resonance with the doctors working with the military and then he goes into a parallel universe where the military are even more military.

846
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:33.780
And so you could think that this could be a comment on the way the doctor sees the brigadier.

847
00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:35.699
Or the way the doctor sold out this year.

848
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:37.320
Yeah, I'm finding troublesome watching them.

849
00:49:37.380 --> 00:49:38.820
But we don't get any of it.

850
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:41.400
That doesn't seem to go anywhere and it could have been really interesting.

851
00:49:41.460 --> 00:49:48.360
The other thing is that the doctor really should go to the parallel universe to find the thing to save this universe.

852
00:49:48.420 --> 00:49:55.860
Or there should be some reason why fascist parallel universe gets destroyed, but our universe doesn't.

853
00:49:55.920 --> 00:50:02.280
And that doesn't seem to be, they are not very careful about that. a 6 hour difference though, isn't it, at the end of the episode?

854
00:50:02.340 --> 00:50:03.659
Don't think so ahead.

855
00:50:03.719 --> 00:50:08.519
The moment he arrives in the power of universe, he knows that it will be destroyed at penetration zero.

856
00:50:08.579 --> 00:50:10.860
He doesn't seem to know that in our universe.

857
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:13.139
There's a sense in which it doesn't quite work.

858
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:16.619
It doesn't do the story job that it should do, that for it to really work.

859
00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:30.659
There needs to be a reason why we survive, and it would be a great idea of perjury rather than just baffing around and being absent in the parallel universe for 4 episodes was actually able to bring something back that saves us in the real world.

860
00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:33.659
See, I couldn't disagree more.

861
00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:35.579
I'm sorry, Nathan, I'm sorry, Philip Sander.

862
00:50:35.699 --> 00:50:37.260
Is this unforgivable padding?

863
00:50:37.320 --> 00:50:42.900
And I would reply, really, is a Christmas carol unforgivable padding when Scrooge is shown his past, his present, his future.

864
00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:44.400
He knows his past, he knows his present.

865
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:45.300
Nice.

866
00:50:45.300 --> 00:50:47.460
And really he knows what his future is going to bring.

867
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:49.139
So that's what this is for the doctor.

868
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:50.880
The doctor is trying to get away from Earth.

869
00:50:50.940 --> 00:50:53.219
That's the doctor's sole motivation here.

870
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:55.500
As you've already said, Nathan, he doesn't care about the project.

871
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:57.539
He's just trying to get his Titus operational.

872
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:00.059
If he got his Titus operational on left, the earth would be destroyed.

873
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:01.619
And that's what the doctor learns here.

874
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:03.659
He's learned that, yes, the earth does need him.

875
00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:06.480
And yes, not everything can be solved with military might.

876
00:51:06.539 --> 00:51:07.380
That's what he learns.

877
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:09.480
That's what he brings back and that's how he saves the world.

878
00:51:09.539 --> 00:51:16.380
But I think that you're kind of agreeing in the sense that he needs to learn something in the parallel universe for it not to just be patting.

879
00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:17.159
Do you know what I mean?

880
00:51:17.219 --> 00:51:18.059
It needs that.

881
00:51:18.119 --> 00:51:20.639
Yeah, that then justifies it and it's not padding.

882
00:51:20.699 --> 00:51:21.059
Yeah.

883
00:51:21.059 --> 00:51:24.119
Well, and there is even a sort of party attempt as well.

884
00:51:24.179 --> 00:51:33.000
You know, the number 2 output point thing that he bambles on about when he's unconscious, which is something that he's learned about in the previous in the previous universe, sort of thing.

885
00:51:33.059 --> 00:51:43.619
But I have to say that by now I am getting a bit tired of the scientific establishments, and I'm getting a bit tired of her and getting homesick for the TARDIS prop.

886
00:51:43.739 --> 00:51:45.900
And really silly scientists.

887
00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:53.039
I'm really glad, though, that it's someone called Slocum, although it's Harry Slocum, who touches the green bubbling goo to start off with.

888
00:51:53.099 --> 00:51:54.840
He's called Mrs. to his mates.

889
00:51:54.900 --> 00:52:06.360
But, you know, you're a scientist and you're doing something stupid, but then again, we've got Ridley Scott doing exactly the same stupid thing in Prometheus and still managing to break budgets and blockbuster.

890
00:52:06.420 --> 00:52:09.480
And was it the heroin in Prometheus Dr. Elizabeth Shaw?

891
00:52:09.539 --> 00:52:10.500
Yes.

892
00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:12.000
It was actually her last name.

893
00:52:12.059 --> 00:52:13.860
Rumi Repace was Dr. Elizabeth Shaw.

894
00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:19.079
That's why it was so offensive when she did that whole abortion scene on the...

895
00:52:19.079 --> 00:52:23.579
Remember that on the laser card abortion and then goes up and carries a gun and runs her up.

896
00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:25.500
I really hate that film.

897
00:52:25.619 --> 00:52:27.300
I'm really glad I haven't seen it.

898
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:31.619
She does major abdominal surgery on herself and then gets up and wanders off carrying a gun.

899
00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:34.619
Yeah, after having the thing aborted from her and it's just...

900
00:52:34.619 --> 00:52:36.300
Yeah, that never happened to Al is a bit sure.

901
00:52:36.420 --> 00:52:38.340
And isn't she amazing?

902
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:41.400
Because that's the other thing that the doctor going to the other universe does.

903
00:52:41.460 --> 00:52:44.400
Liz carries the plot in the main universe.

904
00:52:44.460 --> 00:52:44.699
Yeah.

905
00:52:44.699 --> 00:52:52.199
And a lot of it is her sort of saying the doctor's not here, but then she does things like she inspires the palace revolution against Stalman.

906
00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:55.980
It's amazing how little of our universe is in those middle forest. episodes.

907
00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:57.659
It tends to be one scene, an episode.

908
00:52:57.719 --> 00:52:59.579
The closing credits.

909
00:52:59.639 --> 00:53:02.159
Credit people as like brigade leader, Led Brit Stewart.

910
00:53:02.219 --> 00:53:09.780
Yeah, because I believe it's episode 5 that the brigadier and Liz don't appear, but the brigade leader and section leader shore do it.

911
00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:11.820
And Petra is some...

912
00:53:11.820 --> 00:53:13.079
Yeah, it's...

913
00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:14.400
Dougie Canfield's wife.

914
00:53:14.460 --> 00:53:15.659
And in fact, this is really interesting.

915
00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:18.059
It feels like a Ducky Canfield story, doesn't it?

916
00:53:18.059 --> 00:53:23.760
Well, except that what happens is that Canfield stuff is a heart attack during studio recording.

917
00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:27.900
Yeah, he got all the pre-filming done and the studios for F1 and 2.

918
00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:31.260
Yeah, and then and then Barry Letts takes over it.

919
00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:36.780
He's working for the camera script that Canfield. prepared initially, but then just has to go on his own.

920
00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:39.780
So all of that film stuff is can filled and it's just a reason.

921
00:53:39.780 --> 00:53:42.840
Why, so cool when they're all tumbling down the stairs on the oil refinery thing.

922
00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:44.519
Yeah, yeah.

923
00:53:44.579 --> 00:53:48.719
All of that action stuff is really fantastically effective that Canfield does.

924
00:53:48.780 --> 00:53:54.840
But I just think the amazing thing is how Sheila Dunn just soldiers on tremendously.

925
00:53:54.900 --> 00:53:58.800
Do you feel as if she's almost a replacement for Lou Shaw in apopheosis?

926
00:53:58.860 --> 00:54:01.079
She plays pretty much the same kind of character.

927
00:54:01.139 --> 00:54:06.599
Yeah, no, no, I mean, she soldiers on when her husband's just had a major heart attack and being part of it.

928
00:54:06.659 --> 00:54:07.260
Oh, yes, of course.

929
00:54:07.260 --> 00:54:09.840
In hospital and she has to continue working over the next few weeks.

930
00:54:09.900 --> 00:54:12.300
Maybe that's why they're saying...

931
00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:15.420
She's terrific in the parallel world. but she's really great.

932
00:54:15.539 --> 00:54:18.239
I really like she and Greg Sutton.

933
00:54:18.300 --> 00:54:20.280
I think it's the 1st romance for me.

934
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:22.619
There aren't many of them in Doctor Who anyway. actually is convincing.

935
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:25.079
He's such a caveman in episode one.

936
00:54:25.139 --> 00:54:27.000
I know, but he's got rid of the fleas by now.

937
00:54:27.059 --> 00:54:31.619
We should mention he's also Zaro...

938
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:34.320
Zar in unearthly child way back in the beginning.

939
00:54:34.380 --> 00:54:36.480
He's got very antiquated sexual politics.

940
00:54:36.480 --> 00:54:38.039
Just as much.

941
00:54:38.039 --> 00:54:39.480
And just gets slapped down.

942
00:54:39.539 --> 00:54:40.079
Yeah, yeah.

943
00:54:40.139 --> 00:54:41.159
I mean, the wonderful thing.

944
00:54:41.159 --> 00:54:42.059
We had a beard.

945
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:43.679
We'd all have posters on them in our walls.

946
00:54:44.219 --> 00:54:52.380
The wonderful thing about the characters in this is very often, and science fiction has done lots of evil twin films before.

947
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:58.619
The evil twin is literally some split off from the original.

948
00:54:58.679 --> 00:55:04.440
But these evil twins, if you want to call them that. are actually individuals in their own right.

949
00:55:04.500 --> 00:55:07.739
Exactly the same person, just grown up under different.

950
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:09.059
It's nature or nurture in this case.

951
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:13.139
What happens to a good person when they're brought up.

952
00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:13.920
Yeah, yeah.

953
00:55:13.980 --> 00:55:27.900
And yeah, you get fascinating insights to character, such as it's sectionally Elizabeth Shaw, who can overcome her training and become a decent human being, whereas the brigade leader just goes to pieces.

954
00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:32.460
You've got Greg and Petra are essentially the same characters in both universes.

955
00:55:32.519 --> 00:55:39.179
They're just a little bit more uptight because of their surroundings, but as soon as things start going to hell in either universe, they end up in each other's arms.

956
00:55:39.239 --> 00:55:40.559
And what is great?

957
00:55:40.860 --> 00:55:41.579
What is really great?

958
00:55:41.639 --> 00:55:49.559
We've spoken about how Petro just sort of slaps Greg down the 1st time he tries something and he sort of walks away with a bruised ego.

959
00:55:49.619 --> 00:55:56.820
When eventually, Yeah, it's not even a verbal thing of saying I have feelings for you.

960
00:55:56.880 --> 00:56:06.659
It's very much uh, it's, it's in the action that they perform with each other. you know, sort of throwing your arms around him and saying, I'm frightened, that sort of thing.

961
00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:17.639
It doesn't weaken the intelligence of her character, which is something you would so often see in 50s and 60s sci-fi films, you know, the heroine would be great and resourceful until she falls in love and then she's a mess.

962
00:56:17.699 --> 00:56:29.760
You know, when Ultimate Universe, Petra, actually acknowledges her feelings for Greg, it gives her a new window strength. because when she says I'm frightened, you know, she's pretty much defeated her entire world's fallen apart.

963
00:56:29.940 --> 00:56:37.500
She and Greg share a hug and suddenly she is willing to risk everything to get the reactor back on.

964
00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:41.039
You know, she runs back out into a world which is literally falling apart.

965
00:56:41.099 --> 00:56:45.000
You know, there's a lava appearing everywhere just to get the reactor back on to save someone else.

966
00:56:45.059 --> 00:56:51.300
And I think that's where their love story is so powerful because it's an inspiration for both of them.

967
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:54.719
And because the female character is the stronger character of the two.

968
00:56:54.780 --> 00:56:56.159
I love how she does that.

969
00:56:56.219 --> 00:56:58.739
And I love how we just discover it's happened.

970
00:56:58.800 --> 00:56:59.460
We don't see it.

971
00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:01.139
But it's like, where's Petra?

972
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:04.920
Oh, she's gone off to restart the nuclear reactor?

973
00:57:04.980 --> 00:57:07.380
She's really, really tremendous in those scenes.

974
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:19.320
And I think even if the parallel universe stuff is kind of padding, the fact that the stakes are high and the fact that you get such fun episodes, like episodes 5 and 6 out of it, I think, make it worth it.

975
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:21.480
What do you think about the doctor in this one?

976
00:57:21.539 --> 00:57:23.820
Because you know it's the 1st one written by Doc Horton?

977
00:57:23.880 --> 00:57:33.659
The 1st one. actually written for Pertwee, rather than some heart and all trout and hybrid that they were all writing for since he's, since, you know, it's gone out and they've seen him work.

978
00:57:33.719 --> 00:57:37.860
So I want to say, hey, can we just throw in the 1st time we get to hear that?

979
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:40.139
I want to slap him right from the very 1st scene.

980
00:57:40.199 --> 00:57:47.579
And the reason is that he's driving along in the car singing La Donne Morbile, which means women are unreliable.

981
00:57:47.639 --> 00:57:51.539
Women are immobile. mobile. mobile.

982
00:57:52.380 --> 00:57:54.719
But he doesn't know any of the words.

983
00:57:54.780 --> 00:58:02.460
So he's just going, la, la, la, and he's just appalling.

984
00:58:02.519 --> 00:58:03.719
I hate him instantly.

985
00:58:03.780 --> 00:58:05.639
He loves the royal family.

986
00:58:05.699 --> 00:58:06.539
Do you know what I mean?

987
00:58:06.599 --> 00:58:08.400
Oh, charming, charming family.

988
00:58:08.460 --> 00:58:09.900
I'm not sure if he murdered him.

989
00:58:09.960 --> 00:58:15.000
I'm not sure if he loves them more that he didn't want to see them gummed down by a firing squad.

990
00:58:15.059 --> 00:58:15.840
Yeah, I know.

991
00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:19.559
There's a bit of a, there's a bit of a middle ground in there.

992
00:58:19.619 --> 00:58:21.480
No, but he's so pompous about it.

993
00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:24.179
And then he starts to, you know, anecdotalize.

994
00:58:24.239 --> 00:58:31.559
He sort of pulls that out of chair and says, you know, I knew her great, great, great grandfather in Paris one time. just really go away, you know.

995
00:58:31.619 --> 00:58:35.940
So he does get X. Yes, but it's an annoying character.

996
00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:44.099
He does get extra points for the way he puts Stalman down and the big grin that he gives at the end of it.

997
00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:44.820
That's kind good.

998
00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:46.559
Well, Stalin, Stalin, Stalin.

999
00:58:46.619 --> 00:58:51.179
I mean, Stalman is actually playing Adolf von Science bastard, isn't he in this one?

1000
00:58:51.239 --> 00:58:53.159
Oh, can we talk about Stalin?

1001
00:58:53.159 --> 00:58:54.000
Stalin?

1002
00:58:54.059 --> 00:58:55.139
Oh, yeah.

1003
00:58:55.139 --> 00:58:56.460
He's still with us.

1004
00:58:56.519 --> 00:58:58.500
So Ola Pooley.

1005
00:58:58.500 --> 00:59:03.300
Yeah, exactly. 54 when this when this show is shot.

1006
00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:08.400
He's now approaching his 101st birthday and he's still with us.

1007
00:59:08.460 --> 00:59:10.260
Is he in, oh, just in California?

1008
00:59:10.320 --> 00:59:23.400
I think he's moved to California His wife, his former wife, Gabrielle Beaumont, used to direct Star Trek episodes and he himself appeared in a Star Trek Voyager episode called Blink of an Eye.

1009
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:24.960
Oh, that was a bloody good one.

1010
00:59:25.019 --> 00:59:29.340
Yeah, it really is a good one. and you don't see that much in Voyager a bloody good episode.

1011
00:59:29.460 --> 00:59:30.480
But there are one or two.

1012
00:59:30.539 --> 00:59:31.920
And he's very visibly him.

1013
00:59:31.980 --> 00:59:36.179
So he, I think he's the oldest living person to have been in Doctor Who.

1014
00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:42.300
I think someone who was in Marco Polo who passed away last year.

1015
00:59:42.360 --> 00:59:44.039
Yeah, she died last year and she was 100.

1016
00:59:44.280 --> 00:59:46.860
So I think Olaf is holding the record.

1017
00:59:46.920 --> 00:59:51.300
So his liver can't have been quite as bad as that per twee suggests it was.

1018
00:59:51.420 --> 00:59:58.139
We do get because this is the 1st group written for per week, we get action per week for the 1st time.

1019
00:59:58.199 --> 01:00:00.000
You know, he's got his Venusian, Akido.

1020
01:00:00.059 --> 01:00:08.039
He's got the car chase and as the stuntmen say, we did all the driving, pert we threw Alan Chunks over his shoulder.

1021
01:00:08.099 --> 01:00:11.280
Pert we left a gash in a stuntman's leg, that sort of thing.

1022
01:00:11.340 --> 01:00:13.440
See, it's a psychopath, is he?

1023
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:16.019
As Terence Dix points out.

1024
01:00:16.079 --> 01:00:18.000
It's Aikido.

1025
01:00:18.059 --> 01:00:24.000
His moves are all like kido, and Aikido is a defensive martial art where you use your opponent's strength against them.

1026
01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:27.239
And that is a very doctor-ish thing.

1027
01:00:27.300 --> 01:00:32.460
If you're going to have a doctor with a hand-to-hand form of combat, it should be something like Akido or judo, which are more defensive.

1028
01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:36.659
I would have liked to see Sylvester McCoy do a bit of my keto during his time.

1029
01:00:36.719 --> 01:00:37.679
With the umbrella, yeah.

1030
01:00:37.860 --> 01:00:44.219
Well, very much later on, the ultimate adventure, which started as a stage player with John Pertby.

1031
01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:49.199
Colin Baker then took over the role because John Pertley was too ill to continue.

1032
01:00:49.260 --> 01:00:51.300
He had impacted discs in his back, I believe.

1033
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:52.739
Which was always actually a problem.

1034
01:00:52.860 --> 01:00:54.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1035
01:00:54.840 --> 01:01:00.360
But there was a scene with a sword fight, which, of course, is very perfect, to get into a sword fight, maybe.

1036
01:01:00.420 --> 01:01:05.099
And when Colin Baker came in, he said, well, the thing is, I don't think my doctor would do a sword fight.

1037
01:01:05.159 --> 01:01:06.900
You know, he might...

1038
01:01:07.019 --> 01:01:09.119
Well, he's just like, my, my, that's cruel.

1039
01:01:09.300 --> 01:01:14.820
My doctor, my doctor's not the dashing knight in shining armour, the doctor.

1040
01:01:14.880 --> 01:01:16.860
Yeah, he could have allowed himself to stretch a bit.

1041
01:01:16.920 --> 01:01:19.199
We didn't see that much of his doctor on screen after all.

1042
01:01:19.260 --> 01:01:23.460
The thing is, what his doctor would do was be cancelled after 2 years.

1043
01:01:23.579 --> 01:01:27.300
How Colin Baker did the fight scene was.

1044
01:01:27.360 --> 01:01:37.559
He started having a conversation with someone with his back to the fight and was gesticulating with the sword in his hand and just so happened to parry all the blows and then disarm the guy.

1045
01:01:37.679 --> 01:01:41.099
So it just goes to...

1046
01:01:41.099 --> 01:01:42.179
It's terrible.

1047
01:01:42.840 --> 01:01:45.960
If only we'd been there. to see it.

1048
01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:58.800
The thing is, I think this goes to show just how unique a doctor John Pertwee was and really that no other doctor has that hand-to-hand form of combat because it suits his doctor so much because he is this flamboyant figure.

1049
01:01:58.860 --> 01:02:07.920
So he's going to have a fighting style, which is quite flamboyant, but in the end is more about, okay, if you're going to use violence, I'm going to use violence against you.

1050
01:02:07.980 --> 01:02:10.139
But is it slightly crap violence?

1051
01:02:10.199 --> 01:02:15.239
It's like Roger Moore's judo chop, you know, like Roger, clearly as Bond.

1052
01:02:15.300 --> 01:02:19.559
Roger didn't want to spend a lot of time practising fight sequences and stuff.

1053
01:02:19.619 --> 01:02:21.900
And so he also judo chopped people.

1054
01:02:22.019 --> 01:02:24.780
He also felt that bombs shouldn't be excessively violent.

1055
01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:27.059
There's a reason that Roger Moore is the worst James Bond.

1056
01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:29.400
No, that's an absolute I don't know that he is.

1057
01:02:29.519 --> 01:02:31.199
No, no, he's just perfect for his time.

1058
01:02:31.260 --> 01:02:32.699
I've heard we have bonds.

1059
01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:37.019
Well, I was actually just saying to say, is this the 1st doctor, okay, we've only got 3 so far?

1060
01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:43.619
Is this the 1st doctor who really just sits to be so far in this season kind of troublingly undocterish?

1061
01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:45.179
He doesn't feel like the doctor anymore?

1062
01:02:45.239 --> 01:02:46.320
Certainly like this story?

1063
01:02:46.380 --> 01:02:47.400
someone completely different.

1064
01:02:47.460 --> 01:02:48.840
Trout wouldn't beat people up.

1065
01:02:48.900 --> 01:02:49.619
Do you know what I mean?

1066
01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:51.960
I don't think he'd be ostentatious about anything.

1067
01:02:52.019 --> 01:02:54.960
And even though Billy was, you know, it could be...

1068
01:02:55.019 --> 01:02:55.739
Sorry, that was fun.

1069
01:02:55.800 --> 01:02:57.480
Trapon did gram a lawyer's head into a desk.

1070
01:02:57.539 --> 01:03:02.639
But sorry, you were saying, but that was that was... 15 hours afterwards.

1071
01:03:02.699 --> 01:03:04.739
The lawyer could have grown a new head.

1072
01:03:04.800 --> 01:03:19.079
But we did see Billy being grandiose, but we never kind of saw him contextually as, as, I think so much as taking the horns of the plot and actually riding that bull with his cape streaming in the background.

1073
01:03:19.139 --> 01:03:28.619
Billy was always on the defensive because he knew he had very few defences, a school teacher and a granddaughter and some bloke came out of hanging about in a suit, had to get out of there as quickly as possible.

1074
01:03:28.679 --> 01:03:34.860
Partly, okay, maybe by force of the plot is here and making the best of it.

1075
01:03:34.920 --> 01:03:38.400
But he also seems to be saying, I'm not only going to be making the best of it.

1076
01:03:38.460 --> 01:03:40.860
I'll be taking command of the whole thing.

1077
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:46.559
And do you know, one of the things that I love about Trouton is that he works really well when he's when he's slightly panicked.

1078
01:03:46.619 --> 01:03:47.579
Do you know what I mean?

1079
01:03:47.639 --> 01:03:54.659
And he often does that, the sort of breathing thing that he does and the sort of that, the way that his voice goes when he's panicked and stuff.

1080
01:03:54.719 --> 01:03:56.940
Like us in this podcast. like that.

1081
01:03:57.000 --> 01:03:58.260
And he's lovely.

1082
01:03:58.320 --> 01:04:02.639
He's really likeable because, you know, he doesn't seem like he's got everything under control.

1083
01:04:02.699 --> 01:04:09.659
Whereas, and in photos of a sort of notable exception, per tweet, he never seems like he's in any particular danger.

1084
01:04:09.719 --> 01:04:13.079
He always just sort of strides in very calmly and commandingly.

1085
01:04:13.199 --> 01:04:17.760
And, you know, like for people who like Pertu, I can understand how they would like that about his character.

1086
01:04:17.820 --> 01:04:18.480
Do you know what I mean?

1087
01:04:18.539 --> 01:04:22.440
I think that is an appealing kind of part of the character. certainly a change.

1088
01:04:22.500 --> 01:04:26.639
But it's a bit less interesting to watch, I think.

1089
01:04:26.699 --> 01:04:33.300
See, I'd agree that he's been like that for the 1st 3 stories of this season. when General Carrington puts a gun in his face.

1090
01:04:33.360 --> 01:04:35.159
He doesn't panic at all.

1091
01:04:35.219 --> 01:04:37.440
But in this story, in the alternate universe.

1092
01:04:37.500 --> 01:04:39.300
He does become very panic in places.

1093
01:04:39.360 --> 01:04:49.380
And it's taken us 4 stories, but yeah, I think John Pertley was putting a lot of thought into the character and sort of peeling the layers back as the aforementioned Colin Baker intended to do.

1094
01:04:49.440 --> 01:04:54.780
But we rather wisely chose to peel all the layers back in the 1st season rub than assume he was going to get that yet.

1095
01:04:54.840 --> 01:04:58.139
Yeah, so those scenes where he's panicked screaming.

1096
01:04:58.199 --> 01:04:58.800
No, that's enough.

1097
01:04:58.860 --> 01:05:02.820
Don't use any more orthotic thing, which that's the sound of this planet screaming out its rage.

1098
01:05:02.880 --> 01:05:09.300
It's so much more effective than he has been so calm and commanding up until now, but there's nothing he can do at this point.

1099
01:05:09.360 --> 01:05:11.400
And as we'll find out later in his tenure.

1100
01:05:11.460 --> 01:05:14.099
His experiences here really did affect him in staying with him.

1101
01:05:14.159 --> 01:05:14.880
Yeah.

1102
01:05:14.940 --> 01:05:20.579
Even though I say this is my favourite story, there is one thing, and I'd like to throw it open to you guys because I'm undecided.

1103
01:05:20.760 --> 01:05:26.039
Is Stalman just Dr. Lawrence again from the Silurians?

1104
01:05:26.699 --> 01:05:38.519
He's a bit less panicked than Dr. Lawrence, but he is just one in a long line of intransition base commanders, but he's pretty appealingly played, I think, and we do see 2 versions of him.

1105
01:05:38.579 --> 01:05:39.179
I like him.

1106
01:05:39.239 --> 01:05:40.199
Do you know what I mean?

1107
01:05:40.260 --> 01:05:47.760
And I probably shouldn't at this point, just given all of the crummy base commanders that we've had to sit through over the past 3 years.

1108
01:05:47.820 --> 01:05:49.739
But I think it's pretty good.

1109
01:05:49.800 --> 01:05:51.840
I really like Stalman.

1110
01:05:51.900 --> 01:05:52.860
I want to call him Carmen.

1111
01:05:52.920 --> 01:05:53.400
I don't know.

1112
01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:55.260
I want to call him want to call him a lot of other names.

1113
01:05:55.500 --> 01:06:01.800
I think he's probably the weakest because it's just so jarring that his performance doesn't fit in.

1114
01:06:01.860 --> 01:06:04.860
But I think he's also the most realistic because of that.

1115
01:06:04.920 --> 01:06:11.400
He's kind of dodtery and not quite on the beat with the rest of the cast and he's sort of out of sync in the accent.

1116
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:13.440
You're doing that because it doesn't always really hold.

1117
01:06:13.500 --> 01:06:15.480
Therefore, he's the most realistic.

1118
01:06:15.539 --> 01:06:17.940
But real life is more like that.

1119
01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:20.039
Yeah, I actually find him very convincing.

1120
01:06:20.099 --> 01:06:24.480
And when I 1st saw this story, that was, again, on video, came out in the 90s.

1121
01:06:24.539 --> 01:06:25.500
I thought it was spectacular.

1122
01:06:25.559 --> 01:06:27.300
Really surprising.

1123
01:06:27.360 --> 01:06:28.380
I like the duality.

1124
01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:33.659
It doesn't, okay, it's padding, but it does feel like you're getting an extra story.

1125
01:06:33.719 --> 01:06:38.099
You know, we asked the question, I think, last week about 7 part stories.

1126
01:06:38.159 --> 01:06:53.099
And I have to say that one of the things that I like about this and always have, was this is perhaps the story in this season that I've seen the most often is the way it does give you the chance to get to know a bunch of characters.

1127
01:06:53.159 --> 01:07:06.300
And I don't think they're astoundingly well characterised or anything like that, but we get to spend 3 hours with them, you know, you're kind of, it's sweet when Greg and Petra go off together because you know them sort of thing.

1128
01:07:06.360 --> 01:07:10.139
And I think those stories do at least allow us to do that.

1129
01:07:10.199 --> 01:07:22.019
And I'm not one of those people who thinks, oh, you know, I think that the new series should be full of 4 part stories because there's nothing more interesting than lots of people standing around talking cheaply in corridors for long periods of time.

1130
01:07:22.079 --> 01:07:24.719
A close-up of Peter Capelli is shocked.

1131
01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:26.699
A slightly bemused face every 25 minutes.

1132
01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:33.599
Yeah, you know, like I'm glad that we're now watching a program where you get a full story every week.

1133
01:07:33.659 --> 01:07:37.019
I don't think there's any way it could survive if you didn't do that.

1134
01:07:37.079 --> 01:07:47.699
But there is something quite nice about the leisure of a 7 parter and certainly all of them try and do something a bit different.

1135
01:07:47.760 --> 01:07:51.360
It's not just fury from the deep or, you know, it's such as one setting.

1136
01:07:51.420 --> 01:07:54.059
You know, we're not just confined to a base.

1137
01:07:54.119 --> 01:07:55.920
Something different happens each time.

1138
01:07:56.280 --> 01:08:06.539
We also get a likeable civil servant in this story in the form of Christopher Benjamin playing the ultimate enemy of the cybermen, Sir Keith Gold.

1139
01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:08.340
And a Jew.

1140
01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:09.179
Is he?

1141
01:08:09.179 --> 01:08:13.619
playing it as a Jew and gold is a Jewish... in England.

1142
01:08:13.679 --> 01:08:15.659
And it's a nicely, it's a nicely done thing.

1143
01:08:15.719 --> 01:08:17.520
Is he a Jewish Christopher Benjamin?

1144
01:08:17.579 --> 01:08:18.840
I'm not sure who the character is.

1145
01:08:18.899 --> 01:08:19.739
Yeah, characters.

1146
01:08:19.800 --> 01:08:22.619
So he comes back in the new series to be married to Felicity Kendall.

1147
01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:25.859
The wasp, which is wonderful.

1148
01:08:25.920 --> 01:08:27.000
He's hilarious in it.

1149
01:08:27.060 --> 01:08:32.039
And of course, he's perhaps most famous in Doctor Who circles for playing...

1150
01:08:32.039 --> 01:08:33.359
Henry Gordon Jago.

1151
01:08:33.420 --> 01:08:34.560
And he still is.

1152
01:08:35.640 --> 01:08:39.180
Big finish, I believe they're up to series 10 at that.

1153
01:08:39.239 --> 01:08:40.140
Shut up.

1154
01:08:40.199 --> 01:08:41.100
How good is that?

1155
01:08:41.760 --> 01:08:44.579
I've heard the 1st series, I really like it.

1156
01:08:44.640 --> 01:08:45.539
I recommend, yeah.

1157
01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:48.720
You know, with all with all these supporting characters.

1158
01:08:48.779 --> 01:09:08.699
So, you know, you've got Greg Sutton, Petra Williams, Professor Stalman, Benton is given far more of a character in this, Christopher Benjamin, for how he's held in fan esteem now because of Jago. essentially quite a small part, sir Keith, because sir Keith is quite big in the 1st couple of episodes and then he's in a road accident and we don't know.

1159
01:09:08.760 --> 01:09:10.979
He's dead in the parallel university.

1160
01:09:11.159 --> 01:09:15.060
We don't know if he's dead in this universe, and then he just turns up again in episode 6 or seven.

1161
01:09:15.180 --> 01:09:16.380
With his ominously.

1162
01:09:16.439 --> 01:09:20.699
I mean, with his arm and it's like, yeah, oh, yes, I've been in a horrible car accident that's kept me out half the story.

1163
01:09:20.760 --> 01:09:22.680
I've just sprained my elbow, that kind of thing.

1164
01:09:22.739 --> 01:09:28.560
But he does give the part such presence and such believability.

1165
01:09:28.619 --> 01:09:38.760
And what's nice after Jeffrey Palmer is Masters, whose only interest really is the image of the project and his own image.

1166
01:09:38.819 --> 01:09:42.899
So Keith Gold actually does want the project to succeed.

1167
01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:45.659
He just wants it to succeed safely.

1168
01:09:45.720 --> 01:09:52.199
So, I think he may be unique in the per era of being a civil servant who is not self-serving.

1169
01:09:52.260 --> 01:09:54.539
He's very warm and very likeable.

1170
01:09:54.600 --> 01:09:55.739
I mean, he really is.

1171
01:09:55.800 --> 01:09:56.880
He's a terrific character.

1172
01:09:56.939 --> 01:09:59.399
I think that's what makes this story work.

1173
01:09:59.460 --> 01:10:04.920
It's the ensemble cast and the characters interplay between it from it, yeah.

1174
01:10:04.979 --> 01:10:09.239
And just before we move on to the Jenny Laird award and pick of the week.

1175
01:10:09.300 --> 01:10:17.159
This story, I believe, is possibly the 1st one entirely commissioned by Barry Letts and Terence Dix.

1176
01:10:17.220 --> 01:10:24.060
Derek Sherwin has well and truly moved on at this point and it picks up on something that Barry Letts is very interested in.

1177
01:10:24.119 --> 01:10:26.279
This is a story about the earth fighting back.

1178
01:10:26.340 --> 01:10:33.840
Something is happening and we never find out the nature of the gas or the ooze or what's causing the primords.

1179
01:10:33.899 --> 01:10:38.279
It is just this, as the name would suggest, is primal force from the earth.

1180
01:10:38.340 --> 01:10:40.439
The earth doesn't want us dinging.

1181
01:10:40.500 --> 01:10:43.800
Yeah, there's that thing about Krakato, which isn't followed up either.

1182
01:10:43.859 --> 01:10:44.520
Do you know what I mean?

1183
01:10:44.579 --> 01:10:45.960
It is kept inexplicable.

1184
01:10:46.020 --> 01:10:48.180
You know, the effect of the use is a bit stupid.

1185
01:10:48.239 --> 01:10:49.140
Do you know what I mean?

1186
01:10:49.199 --> 01:10:56.880
Like it inspires you to smash up the machines or, you know, kind of, uh, I don't know, it just makes you behave very oddly.

1187
01:10:56.939 --> 01:11:02.520
Yeah, go absolutely mad and aggressively psychopathic.

1188
01:11:02.579 --> 01:11:09.779
But you get the impression that Stalman is so hell bent on breaking the earth's crust because he's under the control of that ooze thing.

1189
01:11:09.840 --> 01:11:13.800
Yeah, the earth is fighting back, but at the same time, the earth wants to be broken open.

1190
01:11:13.920 --> 01:11:14.520
Yeah, yeah.

1191
01:11:14.579 --> 01:11:15.539
It doesn't really make a lot of sense.

1192
01:11:15.600 --> 01:11:16.979
But I like what you say.

1193
01:11:17.039 --> 01:11:19.380
The idea is that the threat is kept vague.

1194
01:11:19.439 --> 01:11:22.260
We don't really know what's going on and that's good, I think.

1195
01:11:22.319 --> 01:11:26.760
I think the reason that doesn't make a lot of sense is, you know, how can we understand the thought process for planet?

1196
01:11:27.359 --> 01:11:29.699
If that is what is going on?

1197
01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:44.399
And it's a question that not many people raise about the story, I think because the story is circled on its own, but it's one of the great unresolved questions of Doctor Who in that what is actually happening underneath the mantle?

1198
01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:46.800
Spooky.

1199
01:11:46.859 --> 01:11:49.260
I think it's a little magma creatures.

1200
01:11:49.319 --> 01:11:50.520
It's a metaphor.

1201
01:11:50.579 --> 01:11:51.119
It is.

1202
01:11:51.479 --> 01:11:54.300
He's the lovely metaphor.

1203
01:11:54.539 --> 01:12:22.260
I just would like to posit an anti-Jemmy Laird award for someone we don't get to see a lot of Wally Randall, who's, you know, dressed up and doing one of the blokes in the coats, but he always, in his place, Prime Ward, but he's famous, apparently, anecdotally, conventions for having the Prime Ward outfits and having to double for Carrie when she's offset in rehearsal shops with John and the establishing shots in the Prime Ward outfit.

1204
01:12:22.439 --> 01:12:30.779
And a white lab coat and carries black week and playing it totally straight against John and John trying not to crack up.

1205
01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:39.720
The best trick he did was get a half crown coin on those really fine invisible wires and drag it around the floor, so pertly would see it each time and try and pick it up and it would disappear.

1206
01:12:39.779 --> 01:12:47.579
But he was apparently really cross at the end of the shoot with Canfield and and the practical jokes.

1207
01:12:47.640 --> 01:12:49.319
The havoc were even naughtier.

1208
01:12:49.439 --> 01:12:53.039
Because they're all ex-army boys and a bit cheeky.

1209
01:12:53.100 --> 01:13:01.920
So, of course, there was a real team with Duggee Canfield playing naughty buggers and, and, um, the castman and Pert we being perhaps sidelight by the jokes.

1210
01:13:01.979 --> 01:13:05.279
So can I tell you my surprising fact about Inferno?

1211
01:13:05.340 --> 01:13:08.640
that Sheila Dunn was cast when Kate O'Mara was unavailable.

1212
01:13:09.840 --> 01:13:13.680
Yeah, according to the TARDIS databank thing on the internet.

1213
01:13:13.739 --> 01:13:15.119
So it's probably true.

1214
01:13:15.180 --> 01:13:16.199
But can you imagine?

1215
01:13:16.260 --> 01:13:17.039
Wouldn't that have been great?

1216
01:13:17.100 --> 01:13:19.020
I think I have actually heard that somewhere before.

1217
01:13:19.079 --> 01:13:19.800
I'd love that to be.

1218
01:13:19.859 --> 01:13:27.779
I know that Sheila wanted to play it because the tachycardia, it wasn't a full heart attack, but the heart problems that Canfield were having.

1219
01:13:27.840 --> 01:13:30.659
She was very concerned that, you know, she wasn't on set.

1220
01:13:30.720 --> 01:13:31.739
She wanted to be there.

1221
01:13:31.800 --> 01:13:35.399
Yeah, just to keep an eye on him and get him out of the way before it got too bad.

1222
01:13:35.460 --> 01:13:36.300
Right.

1223
01:13:36.300 --> 01:13:38.579
I mean, he was okay.

1224
01:13:38.640 --> 01:13:39.180
He came back.

1225
01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:44.819
He came back later, but it was actually pretty, you know, a touch and go and he was taken off set and didn't finish it.

1226
01:13:44.880 --> 01:13:46.800
I think it's a terrific story.

1227
01:13:46.859 --> 01:13:49.199
It's well worth watching if you've never seen it. absolutely.

1228
01:13:49.260 --> 01:13:52.859
This is actually probably my favourite season of the Purp Week.

1229
01:13:52.979 --> 01:13:57.840
I thought it was, and maybe as we continue our flights.

1230
01:13:57.899 --> 01:14:01.920
And I, uh, continue into season eight, maybe I'll still think it is.

1231
01:14:01.979 --> 01:14:05.699
But I'm actually, I'm pining for the show to be more fun.

1232
01:14:05.760 --> 01:14:06.720
Do you know what I mean?

1233
01:14:06.779 --> 01:14:10.319
And I want my show back.

1234
01:14:10.380 --> 01:14:13.739
So perhaps you should tell us who your Jenny Laird Award is for?

1235
01:14:13.859 --> 01:14:15.119
Well, it has to be.

1236
01:14:15.239 --> 01:14:22.140
I mean, I guess it's Sherwin, although I just can't tell whether it's Sherwin or Letts or Dix, but it is the decision.

1237
01:14:22.140 --> 01:14:37.800
Whoever makes the decision to cancel Doctor Who at the end of 1969 and replace it with this show, which lacks any of the iconography of Doctor Who, we haven't had the TARDIS exterior in shot the 21 episodes.

1238
01:14:37.859 --> 01:14:46.500
It's, you know, a series of sort of greasy Quaker mass knockoffs undermined by occasional moments of sort of Doctor Who silliness.

1239
01:14:46.560 --> 01:14:55.020
And, you know, the show gets renewed, but, but, I miss it and I'm looking forward to season 8 starting.

1240
01:14:55.020 --> 01:15:09.720
And maybe I'll reevaluate it at the end of pertly, but to my surprise, I found myself thinking that this was just a little bit too tiresome to be the program I loved.

1241
01:15:09.779 --> 01:15:13.560
Well, my Jenny Way toward is for something a lot more specific.

1242
01:15:13.619 --> 01:15:25.380
And it's actually something we've mentioned already, so I won't go on about it, but it's for Terrence Dix and Mac Hulk and Trevor Ray, who killed Dr. Lennox.

1243
01:15:25.439 --> 01:15:27.659
We needed affinity answer.

1244
01:15:27.720 --> 01:15:28.619
Richard.

1245
01:15:28.680 --> 01:15:30.779
Ah, ooh, minutiae.

1246
01:15:30.840 --> 01:15:36.359
I'm really perplexed with this one because I don't actually have one.

1247
01:15:36.420 --> 01:15:39.779
I think that all I can say is praise where it's due.

1248
01:15:39.840 --> 01:15:49.319
They were trying to be as experimental as possible, really pushed the boundaries of a show that had dropped in the ratings where it had become terribly formulaic.

1249
01:15:49.380 --> 01:15:53.460
They said, we'll never do that again. lumbered, if you like, with these very long stories.

1250
01:15:53.520 --> 01:15:59.159
Let's try and make each one as different within the same, you know, based under siege.

1251
01:15:59.220 --> 01:16:00.000
It would kind of do.

1252
01:16:00.060 --> 01:16:02.640
We have a world or at least a county under siege, don't we?

1253
01:16:02.699 --> 01:16:04.439
an island under siege this time round.

1254
01:16:04.500 --> 01:16:08.039
It's just a slightly bigger canvas, but there's a lot more variety in it.

1255
01:16:08.100 --> 01:16:10.619
And I think well done, everyone, for having a go-at.

1256
01:16:10.680 --> 01:16:16.140
I'm sure there were flaws that we've talked about them and pert we still trying to find his legs on and off.

1257
01:16:16.199 --> 01:16:17.520
But I find that very interesting.

1258
01:16:17.579 --> 01:16:22.680
This is actually a really laudable season and I'm really glad to be able to enjoy it.

1259
01:16:23.520 --> 01:16:26.159
Yeah, that's just to annoy everyone.

1260
01:16:27.899 --> 01:16:32.939
Well, moving hastily along to our picks of the month.

1261
01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:36.119
Mine has to be, and Richard, you were talking about it earlier.

1262
01:16:36.180 --> 01:16:40.619
Carolyn John's reading of Doctor Who and the Cave Monsters.

1263
01:16:40.680 --> 01:16:44.399
It's an excellent, excellent reading of a novel.

1264
01:16:44.460 --> 01:16:45.779
Don't tell us this.

1265
01:16:45.779 --> 01:16:47.039
I'll be a triumvirate.

1266
01:16:47.100 --> 01:16:47.939
No it wasn't even mine.

1267
01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:49.439
That was mine too.

1268
01:16:49.500 --> 01:16:49.739
Yeah.

1269
01:16:49.800 --> 01:16:52.560
Let's just all recommend that because it's wonderful.

1270
01:16:52.619 --> 01:16:53.819
Nathan might have something new.

1271
01:16:53.880 --> 01:16:56.579
I do have something different, but that is really, really good.

1272
01:16:56.640 --> 01:16:57.600
Yeah, yeah.

1273
01:16:57.600 --> 01:17:11.460
The novelisation, like all of Mac Holt's novelisations, is really terrific and I could recommend, you know, the dinosaur invasion and the doomsday weapon and, you know, all of those ones, I think, are really terrifically good.

1274
01:17:11.520 --> 01:17:17.039
But having Caroline John read it and do the voices and stuff and they do voice treatments, don't they?

1275
01:17:17.100 --> 01:17:18.779
Yes, they do.

1276
01:17:18.840 --> 01:17:22.079
It's a terrific book.

1277
01:17:22.140 --> 01:17:26.640
My pick was going to be actually the auton invasion.

1278
01:17:26.699 --> 01:17:34.140
My favourite story of the season needs to be had from space because it is the most Doctor Who-ish of the story.

1279
01:17:34.199 --> 01:17:35.399
It's very fresh.

1280
01:17:35.399 --> 01:17:35.699
Yeah.

1281
01:17:35.760 --> 01:17:43.260
And it's the direction of the show with a bit of tweaking will eventually decide to go. you know, in in subsequent years.

1282
01:17:43.319 --> 01:17:53.640
But it's a great book and a lot of people say that, um, that one of the characteristics of the pertwe years is that the books are better than the show.

1283
01:17:53.699 --> 01:18:02.159
And certainly my experience. encountering autumn invasion as a book, you know, beautifully illustrated, really fun and readable.

1284
01:18:02.220 --> 01:18:05.579
I think it's better than the final story.

1285
01:18:05.640 --> 01:18:12.779
A lot of those books are inexplicably out of prints and inexplicably impossible to buy as e-books.

1286
01:18:12.840 --> 01:18:15.659
Unless you join our competition, Brent.

1287
01:18:15.720 --> 01:18:19.020
No, but this one is actually in print.

1288
01:18:19.079 --> 01:18:20.520
Oh, is it actually re-released?

1289
01:18:20.579 --> 01:18:22.560
So both Cave Monsters is as well.

1290
01:18:22.619 --> 01:18:28.020
Friend of the podcast, Jeff Wellen, gave me a copy of Dr. Doom and the Cave Monsters, which he bought last time.

1291
01:18:28.500 --> 01:18:30.899
I have a lovely original edition.

1292
01:18:31.020 --> 01:18:31.500
Of course you do.

1293
01:18:32.220 --> 01:18:34.020
They're collected.

1294
01:18:34.079 --> 01:18:34.920
Yeah, they're both good.

1295
01:18:34.979 --> 01:18:37.140
Terrence's. is it Terrence's 1st novelisation?

1296
01:18:37.199 --> 01:18:38.939
Yeah, yeah, and we talked about it last week.

1297
01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:40.680
And he really pulls all the stops out.

1298
01:18:40.739 --> 01:18:42.899
He's definitely showing what he's worth in this.

1299
01:18:42.960 --> 01:18:45.119
He's a terrific children's rider.

1300
01:18:45.180 --> 01:18:46.560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1301
01:18:46.619 --> 01:18:49.439
Those books, I mean, those books are so important to my childhood.

1302
01:18:49.500 --> 01:18:51.600
Also, can I do another pick very quickly?

1303
01:18:51.659 --> 01:18:57.239
It's pretty hard to find, but there's a documentary by Mark Gaitis called from the outside.

1304
01:18:57.300 --> 01:19:04.680
It looked like an old fashioned police box and it's a radio documentary about the history of the Doctor Who novelisations.

1305
01:19:04.739 --> 01:19:07.319
It includes an interview with Terrence Dix.

1306
01:19:07.380 --> 01:19:17.760
Look, it's possible to find in shady corners of the internet, if you can possibly get hold that is utterly utterly compelling.

1307
01:19:17.819 --> 01:19:29.520
And those novelisations did so much for sort of the literacy of teenagers and so much to inspire a whole new generation of people to, you know, take over Doctor Who.

1308
01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:34.800
And, you know, Russell T. Davis gets interviewed and Mark Gatis runs it and all of that sort of thing.

1309
01:19:34.859 --> 01:19:37.319
So if you can get hold of that, that's why we're listening to as well.

1310
01:19:37.680 --> 01:19:40.859
And my go-to's are always the target north as well.

1311
01:19:40.920 --> 01:19:43.140
Because it's such a short season, really, with only 4 stories.

1312
01:19:43.199 --> 01:19:46.619
It's not much else to mention other than, you said Quadomass.

1313
01:19:46.680 --> 01:19:54.720
I mean, if you want to look at other films at the time, we could look at Jerry Anderson's UFO, which was being broadcast from 1970.

1314
01:19:54.899 --> 01:19:58.680
So at the same period, it's really nice to see as a counterpoint to this.

1315
01:19:58.739 --> 01:20:05.640
I mean, it's streets ahead as far as special effects, but the storylines are still with alien incursions.

1316
01:20:05.699 --> 01:20:11.279
It's nice to see how a truly fascist organisation deals with this.

1317
01:20:11.340 --> 01:20:15.720
And it's got some Doctor Who crossover actors and it's lovely, you know, it's just gorgeous and modern flesh.

1318
01:20:15.720 --> 01:20:17.579
And it's got more to dent them in it.

1319
01:20:17.640 --> 01:20:19.079
So how can you not watch it?

1320
01:20:19.140 --> 01:20:22.260
So, yeah, I'd have a look at that if you've never seen it.

1321
01:20:22.380 --> 01:20:34.739
Two novelisations we were talking about, the auton invasion in the cave monsters, were 2 of 5 Doctor Who novelisations, the rights for which were bought by Hawakaya publishing in Japan in 1980.

1322
01:20:34.859 --> 01:20:37.260
And I actually have all five.

1323
01:20:37.319 --> 01:20:42.779
So I'll be putting up some photos on the website because what they have is they have amazing new artwork covers.

1324
01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:54.180
They have a 2 page colour frontis piece and illustrations different from the target novelisations because the Japanese artists doing them only had reference to the text.

1325
01:20:54.239 --> 01:20:55.739
They didn't have any visual reference.

1326
01:20:55.800 --> 01:20:57.539
So you end up...

1327
01:20:57.600 --> 01:20:59.159
They look great, don't they?

1328
01:20:59.220 --> 01:21:00.659
The Daleks are superb.

1329
01:21:00.720 --> 01:21:04.739
Yeah, so I'll be putting, at the very least, the covers up on the website.

1330
01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:06.779
I'll see if I can scan the frontist pieces as well.

1331
01:21:07.020 --> 01:21:15.119
The other thing is, gentlemen, do you know what would have happened if Doctor Who had been cancelled at the end of this season?

1332
01:21:16.800 --> 01:21:22.800
Well, Barry Letts, if you like, was contracted to be a producer for this time slot.

1333
01:21:22.859 --> 01:21:30.600
So if Doctor Who had been cancelled, Barry Letts had actually developed that, the request for the BBC, a new drama series called Snowy Black.

1334
01:21:30.960 --> 01:21:32.460
Oh, no.

1335
01:21:32.520 --> 01:21:33.420
Which one?

1336
01:21:33.420 --> 01:21:38.520
Which was about an Australian drover. who moves to London and the resultant culture clash.

1337
01:21:38.579 --> 01:21:40.920
It's Crocodile Dundee 15 years early.

1338
01:21:40.979 --> 01:21:42.000
No, really, it is.

1339
01:21:42.060 --> 01:21:42.840
I've heard of this too.

1340
01:21:42.899 --> 01:21:44.279
Oh, gosh.

1341
01:21:44.279 --> 01:21:45.960
Apparently the reason it didn't go ahead.

1342
01:21:46.079 --> 01:21:46.979
It's terrible.

1343
01:21:47.520 --> 01:21:48.840
Yes, that would be a reason.

1344
01:21:48.899 --> 01:21:51.840
But it would have resulted in the heat depth of the universe.

1345
01:21:51.899 --> 01:22:02.159
Pretty much they couldn't get script writers willing to write for it and they couldn't get an actor willing to play it and that's why Doctor Who got mate season because Inferno was down to less than 4000000 viewers by the end.

1346
01:22:02.220 --> 01:22:03.840
So it wasn't that successful.

1347
01:22:03.899 --> 01:22:07.619
It wasn't that this show was so successful. was just that all the other ideas they had were really terrible.

1348
01:22:07.680 --> 01:22:09.479
It was moderately successful.

1349
01:22:09.539 --> 01:22:12.479
It was no, it was no worse than the previous year.

1350
01:22:12.539 --> 01:22:19.199
And indeed, when you average out the rating because there were fewer episodes, the average rating was higher, the audience appreciation index was higher.

1351
01:22:19.260 --> 01:22:22.380
But yeah, pretty much it got renewed for season 8 by default.

1352
01:22:23.039 --> 01:22:24.960
Not for the 1st time.

1353
01:22:25.020 --> 01:22:26.640
Not all the last indeed.

1354
01:22:41.699 --> 01:22:46.800
Now, as we expected, earlier, we still have a competition running.

1355
01:22:46.859 --> 01:22:52.199
Please comment on our website for your chance to win a target novelisation of your choice.

1356
01:22:52.260 --> 01:22:55.199
The newly revamped website.

1357
01:22:55.199 --> 01:22:56.279
Now, thank you, Nathan.

1358
01:22:56.340 --> 01:22:56.939
Now in colour.

1359
01:22:57.000 --> 01:22:58.560
What is the address of the website?

1360
01:22:58.619 --> 01:23:00.060
flight through entirety.com.

1361
01:23:00.180 --> 01:23:02.100
The flight through entirety.com.

1362
01:23:02.220 --> 01:23:03.539
Yeah, that is it.

1363
01:23:03.600 --> 01:23:04.140
Gosh.

1364
01:23:04.199 --> 01:23:08.279
Yeah, I can buy a domain name like the best of them.

1365
01:23:08.340 --> 01:23:13.920
To begin with a chance to win that, please just comment on our website at flightthroughentirety.com.

1366
01:23:13.979 --> 01:23:17.640
Now, gentlemen, next month we are heading into season eight.

1367
01:23:17.699 --> 01:23:19.920
So here come your story allocations.

1368
01:23:20.039 --> 01:23:23.640
Now, in terms of pert we, he has a total of 24 stories.

1369
01:23:23.699 --> 01:23:26.460
So what I've done is I've actually divided up the whole era so we get 8 stories each.

1370
01:23:26.520 --> 01:23:31.619
So occasionally you might be doing 2 stories, one, season, one, story, the next, et cetera, et cetera.

1371
01:23:31.680 --> 01:23:32.399
Nathan.

1372
01:23:32.760 --> 01:23:39.239
Your stories are the clause of Axos. and the Damons.

1373
01:23:39.300 --> 01:23:41.880
Ooh, the demons, one of those.

1374
01:23:41.939 --> 01:23:44.399
Depends on which episode you're in.

1375
01:23:44.460 --> 01:23:44.939
It does.

1376
01:23:45.000 --> 01:23:46.020
Richard.

1377
01:23:46.079 --> 01:23:49.199
Your stories are Terror of the Autons.

1378
01:23:49.199 --> 01:23:50.939
Golly. and the mind of evil.

1379
01:23:51.000 --> 01:23:53.399
They're the bestests too.

1380
01:23:53.460 --> 01:23:54.420
How exciting.

1381
01:23:54.479 --> 01:23:57.000
That's not worth taking a holiday in Cambridge for, is it?

1382
01:23:57.060 --> 01:23:57.479
That's great.

1383
01:23:57.600 --> 01:24:02.100
And you know what that leaves me with, don't you?

1384
01:24:02.159 --> 01:24:03.539
The luckiest of the lucky.

1385
01:24:03.539 --> 01:24:07.199
Colony in space, dear listener.

1386
01:24:07.260 --> 01:24:11.220
Just so you know, there is no favouritism in how these stories are chosen.

1387
01:24:11.279 --> 01:24:15.600
They are chosen by the Randomiser.net, which gave me the colony in space.

1388
01:24:15.659 --> 01:24:18.899
Thank you, Nathan, who plays...

1389
01:24:18.960 --> 01:24:19.619
It totally hates you.

1390
01:24:19.680 --> 01:24:22.619
You've also got a brilliant target novel. very true.

1391
01:24:22.680 --> 01:24:23.399
It's really good.

1392
01:24:23.399 --> 01:24:25.140
Japanese version.

1393
01:24:25.199 --> 01:24:29.279
Yeah, why don't you just do the whole podcast in Japanese the next time we just do that?

1394
01:24:29.699 --> 01:24:36.239
I think I think any native Japanese speaker would shun me, disown me, if I attempted to do that.

1395
01:24:36.300 --> 01:24:37.859
I know how to say about 5 words.

1396
01:24:37.920 --> 01:24:40.979
So, dear listener, until a fortnight's time.

1397
01:24:41.039 --> 01:24:42.720
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1398
01:24:42.779 --> 01:24:43.500
Good night.

1399
01:24:43.560 --> 01:24:44.100
Thank you.

1400
01:24:47.159 --> 01:24:53.220
Look, and listen to Flight 2 Entirety with Windsor Leader Bottomley, editing leader of James, and a recent leader starting.

1401
01:24:53.279 --> 01:24:56.819
This episode, Chad Ducking, was recorded on Sunday, the 4th of January.

1402
01:24:56.880 --> 01:24:59.579
The next episode will be released on February 15th.

1403
01:24:59.640 --> 01:25:06.000
You can find us online at flightthroughentirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes, their FTE podcast and Twitter.

1404
01:25:06.060 --> 01:25:09.659
If you're planning to wear an eye patch, it's best to wear it on your eye.

1405
01:25:12.720 --> 01:25:15.600
Just one in a long line of intransition-based commanders.

1406
01:25:15.659 --> 01:25:18.420
But he's pretty appealingly played.

1407
01:25:18.479 --> 01:25:20.340
I think, and we do see 2 versions of him.

1408
01:25:20.399 --> 01:25:21.060
I like him.

1409
01:25:21.119 --> 01:25:21.960
Do you know what I mean?

1410
01:25:22.020 --> 01:25:30.300
And I probably shouldn't at this point, just given all of the crummy base commanders that we've had to sit through over the past 3 years.

1411
01:25:30.359 --> 01:25:31.619
But I think it's pretty good.

1412
01:25:31.680 --> 01:25:33.539
Richard, do you like it?

1413
01:25:33.600 --> 01:25:35.039
Pertly?

1414
01:25:35.100 --> 01:25:35.579
No.

1415
01:25:35.640 --> 01:25:36.420
Stalman.

1416
01:25:36.600 --> 01:25:37.140
Cut.

1417
01:25:37.439 --> 01:25:39.359
I...