WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:34:31

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Hello and welcome to Quite Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who

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podcast that's just taken off from Mars.

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What the hell was that?

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm the ambassador of...

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Oh, now I think I know that's good.

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This is an amazing 1st for the program.

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And I don't really want to sort of oversell it, but it's an

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absolute turning point in history of Doctor Who.

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And it is the introduction of the sting.

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Yes.

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And we get it twice an episode.

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We get it, you know, a little moment, a little momenty moment at

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the very beginning, which is usually the reprise for the kids.

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Okay, now you're not talking about the group, the police, and

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you're not talking about Robert Redford.

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Paul Newman in the film of the same name.

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Or possibly the best episode of Futurama.

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Oh, yeah.

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Oh, yeah, it's good.

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However, so it sounds like this. did that very well. very, very

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clever.

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Without any sort of vocal treatment at all.

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It starts to appear for the 1st time here.

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At the beginning of the sort of 2nd half of the credits that

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happen after a prize, and then at the end of each episode.

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I think it's a wonderful directorial touch, having the reprise

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within the opening granite.

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Yeah, I mean, it's kind of what we do now, isn't it?

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You have a teaser and then you have the...

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It's literally what we did just then. the customer.

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Yes.

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Did we mention that we're talking about ambassadors of death at

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all?

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Well, Richard said the ambassadors are boy...

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Oh, I guess so.

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I think people got it.

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And I used Dudley's, um, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

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That's why we're all dressed as the swingle singers.

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That's right.

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We've all got sort of like yellow turtleneck, sweaters.

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It's also quite warm, which explains the mini skirts.

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Yeah, I'm draping one pieces, yeah.

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Brendan, you've got all blue and spotty.

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What's all this about?

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We've got to get some clearer sauce.

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This is terrible.

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I'll turn off the microwave.

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It's doing terrible to our complexions.

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I actually think they're the best looking aliens we've had so

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far.

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CSO is really, really working.

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But the 1st time this says so far this season.

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It wasn't terribly great in the caves of dreaminess, was it?

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What's happening now?

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The sting.

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It's one of these things that you imagine the Doctor Who actually

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always had, you know, that it was a part and parcel of the show

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from the beginning.

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But in fact, it's it only day to use here.

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It really livens up the cliffhangers.

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There are plenty of times in the 60s where you get a sort of slow

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and undramatic fade to black and then a couple of moments of

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silence and then we go with the closing credits.

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But this one, it really reinforces the cliffhanger.

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And I think in about time.

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They've got a whole essay on the sting.

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I think they're the ones who say that it sounds like your TV is

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surprised by the situation as well.

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So it's a huge thing and it really works well and it's lasted up

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until the present day.

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But the show has sort of changed unrecognisably around it.

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So this time last year, we were doing seeds of death and the space

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part.

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Seeds of death, you mentioned because this looks nothing like it

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even though we've got the same lovely director in Michael

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Ferguson.

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It's absolutely nothing like it.

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There are one or 2 directorial touches, though.

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And then a year before that, we had Webber Fear and Fury from the

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Deep.

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And this show is now nothing at all like that.

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This is a political thriller.

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And Doctor Who doesn't do many political thrillers.

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I could think of mind of evil and invasion of the dinosaurs, but

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that'd be about it.

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We had one previously, enemy of the world.

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Enemy of the world.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So it's the thing that the show has done before, but it's not a

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well that the show, you know, goes to very frequently.

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And this one's a little bit more gone and a little bit more kind

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of low key.

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Certainly enemy of the world was sort of brand and camp and set in

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the future and had, you know, trout and acting sort of

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splendidly.

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This one is a bit more gritty sort of along the lines of the TV

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shows and things that you mentioned last episode, I think

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Richard.

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What is this story?

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We've got this fantastic, this where Havik comes in and does a

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whole lot of action straight out of the Ipcrest file.

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And then we suddenly got Britty locations and extra, extra gritty

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muddy shops and factories, and it's actually, like I mentioned

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Mike Hodges would get Carter.

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But then with John's fabulous flouncy Steady outfit, it's more

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like Get Her Carter, isn't it, really?

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We've got, there's always a bit of camp in between the grit.

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Yeah, which is probably the best way to take your camp and take

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your grit.

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This is actually, this is the where it veers away from...

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That sounds like someone's doing a weed.

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Brendan's pouring champagne.

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Champagne for everyone.

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But yeah, the grit is...

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I think the grits really welcome.

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Well, it provides that Doctor-ish touch of something abnormal in

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the normal.

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I think what the production team have realised is if you have

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Doctor Who filled with normality, doctor has to become even more

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abnormal in order to have the tension that Doctor Who has always

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had.

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Yeah.

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So you no longer have the TARDIS.

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Although we do see the console and have a rather amusing sequence

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between the doctor and Liz flitting off here and there, which

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actually foreshadows the next story.

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It does.

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And some fans have conjectured the possibility that the doctor's

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bachelor pad with all that lovely green clock wallpaper in Dive

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Windows is actually the TARDIS interior because it has the hum.

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And I love that idea.

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It should be.

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For one story only, the doctor's called Pure 70s.

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It's a story though, Ambassadors of Death. is not really widely

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known or seen even by long-term football, you know, unless you're

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a really diehard fan because it was so late coming out on DVD and

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it's kind of forgotten and not everybody.

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It is, what is this story about?

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Still not sure I know after having watched it several times.

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We've strayed away from the real world, which is where we said the

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Silurians was set.

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British astronaut?

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We have a British space program and they're travelling to Mars.

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They're already landed on Mars at least twice.

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And yet what year is this set in?

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Oh, is that another discussion?

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We've had this discussion and that's it.

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It was something that happened on television in 1970s.

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According to John Pertley, it was set in 1980 because he, when he

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gives an interview after he's been cast, that interview where John

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Levine was carrying him around in a yeti costume, why John Pertley

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was wearing a yeti costume, I don't know.

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But we said that my doctor will be a lot more modern, he will wear

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a modern suit, which didn't happen.

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And the stories will be set in 1980.

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Which explains Liz's amazing hat.

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And John Abaneri's outrageous Colonel Foster from UFO rug.

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What is that week?

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This is the this is the story of the Amazing Hats, isn't it?

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Oh, the space helmets of the astronauts are actually from the

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fabulous Hammer films, Moon 02, which was a Western inset in space

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with Catherine's skill from Space 1979, not yet to be vocal. and a

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lot of other folk we all love.

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And of course, you've got the wonderful variable accent of Dr

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Bruno Tatalian.

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Oh, where we get an archer crossover for the 1st time in Doctor

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Who.

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Isn't he actually playing a character from Archer, would you?

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Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah, he's pretty much creaker, yeah.

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So what's happening?

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There are British astronauts who are trying who have been to Mars

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and come back.

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Well, they haven't come back.

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They've taken off, but they haven't returned.

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So we sent up another rocket to get them.

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How good did that rocket look?

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Did it look good?

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The model, though, we've got to get...

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It goes fresh from Jerry's 1st go at UFO and he's doing some

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really lovely shots.

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It's a 1st to him too, isn't it?

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Yeah, it is for the 1st go.

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We're actually getting some ITC level, Lou Great, Jerry Anderson

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effect level model shots, which take up half the story, it seems.

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Well, again, they're doing the slow moving model shot with the

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sort of classical-ish.

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I thought it was 2001 again.

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I thought it was a bit barkish.

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It actually sounds like...

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So that, you know, we've got... pale, all possibly bar.

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We've got Dudley doing our own real score.

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That most jarring thing for me in this story is all the stings and

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boings throughout, just to let you know, a dramatic moments coming

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up.

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I find it very generic.

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Although, a lot of it is very sort of 60s spy, actually.

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Yeah, if you haven't seen any of Chris File, you'd swear you're

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watching the same thing.

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But the music for the just to get back.

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What in fact happens is they lose contact with the 2 Mars

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astronauts who are coming back.

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And the 3rd astronaut who has come to rescue them.

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They lose contact with them completely.

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But they managed to bring down the capsule and before they can

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open it, the 3 astronauts they think are taken out.

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And it turns out the astronauts are aliens and they're being used

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in this sort of vast conspiracy.

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And there's conspiracies within conspiracies.

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There's an original conspiracy that involves like a civil servant

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and things, and a general, General Carrington, who's John Abenieri

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who will later turn up in power of Kroll virtually naked and

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painted green, and did his part enough.

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And also an episode of Red Dwarf, and it's arguable which one has

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more dignity.

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So that conspiracy gets unmasked and the civil servant gets killed

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and it turns out that behind that conspiracy is a conspiracy

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exactly the same, involving all of the same people.

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It is sort of very strange.

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So I'm not sure that the conspiracy element sort of really worked

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but what does work is the aliens, I think, and the aliens are very

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undersold, aren't they?

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We see them very briefly.

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We see a sort of blueface thing.

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There's a per tweak goes up in a rocket and season other alien

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that is Peter Halliday again.

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Cyberplanner.

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But I really like the way that's done.

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And you walk in with a very Orwellian thing of them all.

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It's so Englishman in space.

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They're not talking about the oxygen levels.

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They're not talking about the political climate.

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They're talking about England getting defeated by Portugal in the

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football that they're watching on the woo-woo screen.

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It's really, and of course, the alien appears through a Venetian

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blind.

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It's varying.

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And I love the way that it's so understated, you know, it's kind

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of a shame we didn't get a British space program.

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That would have been so silly, yes.

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But the other aliens are the other 3 spacesuited things.

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And we originally think that they're the astronauts coming back

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but we discovered that they're not. they're really, really

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terrifying.

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And there's Yeah, they're well paced, aren't they?

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And they get great music.

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Like there's this sort of weird distorted harp music that plays.

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No, they're flutes, I think.

252
00:11:34.740 --> 00:11:35.879
Something anyway.

253
00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:36.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

254
00:11:36.779 --> 00:11:39.240
It is sort of slightly odd and distorted.

255
00:11:39.299 --> 00:11:41.100
And they sound really great.

256
00:11:41.100 --> 00:11:43.679
And Michael Ferguson does the trick that he does in Seeds of

257
00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:43.980
Death.

258
00:11:44.039 --> 00:11:46.620
You remember when we did Seeds of Death.

259
00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:51.120
You said that Rod's memory of watching it for the 1st time was the

260
00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:55.500
Ice Warrior with looming up with the light of the sun behind him.

261
00:11:55.559 --> 00:11:58.500
Yeah, I love the lens sperm.

262
00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:00.240
He redoes that, doesn't he, for these?

263
00:12:00.299 --> 00:12:05.340
And you have to think that those spacesuits, because they're blank

264
00:12:05.340 --> 00:12:08.940
faced, you never really see, you do see one shot of the face of

265
00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:12.000
one of the aliens and it's sort of blue and gruesome.

266
00:12:12.120 --> 00:12:14.159
And very sort of quick cuts.

267
00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:15.299
Yeah.

268
00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:17.340
Like you cut back and forth to Liz's reaction.

269
00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:19.200
Yeah, it's horror movie stuff.

270
00:12:19.259 --> 00:12:20.460
That's what they do in horror movies.

271
00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:21.960
Yeah, it's very Hammer, actually.

272
00:12:22.019 --> 00:12:23.399
So that...

273
00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:26.700
I mean, those spaces, those astronauts, menacing people look

274
00:12:26.700 --> 00:12:30.000
really terrifying and you've got to think that Stephen Moffatt is

275
00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:34.559
reusing that iconography in the Impossible Astronaut in series 6 a

276
00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:36.840
lot later because they are really memorable looking.

277
00:12:36.899 --> 00:12:38.159
It's an interesting thought.

278
00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:40.379
We just read that as Scooby-Doo aliens, didn't we?

279
00:12:40.379 --> 00:12:44.039
From the same way with the skull heads from silence and the

280
00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:46.980
library, but I do remember a great comic I saw.

281
00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:50.399
And on the top, you've got the Scooby gang and saying, let's see

282
00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:51.480
who the alien really is.

283
00:12:51.539 --> 00:12:54.360
It's old man Winters, and then you've, on the 2nd panel.

284
00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:57.059
You've got the 11th doctor, Amy, Rory and River.

285
00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:59.220
Let's see all old Man Winters really is.

286
00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:00.240
He's a silence.

287
00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:05.879
Yeah, the double reveal, yeah.

288
00:13:05.940 --> 00:13:09.720
Something I love about this story is it would be easy to look at

289
00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:11.700
this story and say General Carrington is a villain.

290
00:13:11.820 --> 00:13:15.779
But really, the villain of this story is Regan, who is General

291
00:13:15.779 --> 00:13:17.220
Carrington's hired help.

292
00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:20.340
I think the least successful performance in this as well.

293
00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:24.059
I find him I find him quite well plotting to watch, you know?

294
00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:26.039
The interesting thing is if you look at the context.

295
00:13:26.100 --> 00:13:27.000
Regan is Irish.

296
00:13:27.059 --> 00:13:29.759
He doesn't, he sort of does the accent.

297
00:13:29.820 --> 00:13:32.039
Yeah, just a little, but the name is clear.

298
00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:33.179
You're right.

299
00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:35.039
And he's the accent, is there, and it's about the troubles.

300
00:13:35.100 --> 00:13:37.559
It's a real strong reference to Northern Ireland.

301
00:13:37.620 --> 00:13:41.519
This is 6 months after the Battle of Bogside, which is sort of the

302
00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:45.360
crystallising event that led to the provisional IRA. having an

303
00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:47.039
Irish villain was very topical.

304
00:13:47.100 --> 00:13:51.059
And I quite like reading because He's enjoying himself, isn't he?

305
00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:52.919
Well, plus he feels dangerous.

306
00:13:52.980 --> 00:13:57.779
He's, yeah, he is someone from the champions or later the

307
00:13:57.779 --> 00:14:00.539
professionals, but he's someone from an ITC series.

308
00:14:00.659 --> 00:14:04.259
I do feel I'm watching an episode of a lady 70s cop show in this

309
00:14:04.259 --> 00:14:04.379
yeah.

310
00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:08.399
But it does mean that he and his lackeys get some great material

311
00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:13.019
with Carol and John, or rather, she gets some great material with

312
00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:13.320
them.

313
00:14:13.379 --> 00:14:16.440
The thing that really sticks into my mind and it just crystallises

314
00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:20.639
Liz's character for me is when at one point Reagan's telling her

315
00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:24.659
off for trying to escape and he sort of throws her to one of the

316
00:14:24.659 --> 00:14:27.779
guards and the guard is grabbing her and she's looking up at him

317
00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:30.360
you know, he's 6 foot 6 and she just says, don't worry, I won't

318
00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:30.899
hurt you.

319
00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:33.059
They're a nice one to see.

320
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.820
But it is quite jarring, and you know, you're not watching a kitty

321
00:14:35.820 --> 00:14:38.340
show anymore, and the way that the doctor's companion is really

322
00:14:38.340 --> 00:14:39.600
manhandled in this.

323
00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:43.740
She's, she has a really rough time and she's running hard in those

324
00:14:43.740 --> 00:14:47.580
ridiculous go-go boots and she's outside and it's cold and the bit

325
00:14:47.580 --> 00:14:51.360
with the wear when she almost goes over and the actress was in

326
00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:52.259
fact 3 months pregnant.

327
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:52.919
Exactly.

328
00:14:52.980 --> 00:14:55.080
And a lot of that, you know, how much of that is her?

329
00:14:55.139 --> 00:14:56.700
Quite a bit when she's running along.

330
00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:57.600
Yeah, some of it's not.

331
00:14:57.720 --> 00:14:58.679
Some of it's...

332
00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:01.200
Stewart fell, but I believe the rest of it was her.

333
00:15:01.259 --> 00:15:06.360
But the physicality in the way they manhandle her is hitting

334
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:08.220
unfortunate jars against the rest of the show.

335
00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:10.679
Okay, we're making this for teenage boys, not for little kids

336
00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:11.100
anymore.

337
00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:14.039
But, How did you feel about it?

338
00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:20.759
I think I think it cements how how villainous these villains are.

339
00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:22.440
That we're in real danger.

340
00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:23.519
That we're in real danger.

341
00:15:23.580 --> 00:15:27.000
It's very telling that when General Carrington threatens them.

342
00:15:27.059 --> 00:15:28.080
He threatens them with a gun.

343
00:15:28.139 --> 00:15:30.539
It doesn't threaten them with physical force and grabbing them and

344
00:15:30.539 --> 00:15:31.799
punching people and what have you.

345
00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:33.840
So what you've got is you've got 2 levels of violence.

346
00:15:33.899 --> 00:15:37.860
You've got the violence of the street thug and you've got the

347
00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:41.399
violence of the landed pentry, if you like.

348
00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:44.100
And really, you know, it's all terrible.

349
00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:49.259
But it's highlighting the double standard here that you have these

350
00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:52.500
peaceful aliens, but they're seen as evil because they have this

351
00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:54.360
unfortunate thing where if they touch you, they kill you.

352
00:15:54.419 --> 00:15:55.860
But it's not an intentional thing.

353
00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:59.700
Whereas you've got Carrington saying sort of the ends justify the

354
00:15:59.700 --> 00:16:00.899
means it was my moral duty.

355
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:03.179
Yeah, it doesn't stop the fact that you're no better than these

356
00:16:03.179 --> 00:16:03.539
dogs.

357
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:06.779
Yeah, I hate Carrington, and I hate the way that Pertui responds

358
00:16:06.779 --> 00:16:09.059
to him at the end, and it's hard to read, I guess.

359
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:12.840
But you always get this sort of impression that Reagan's a sort of

360
00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:16.740
terrible thug and a terrible person, but Carrington, and he says

361
00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:19.500
you know, it's about his moral duty, and that's the cliffhanger to

362
00:16:19.500 --> 00:16:22.320
episode 6, and he, you know, he's going to shoot the doctor in the

363
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:25.080
head because it's his moral duty, and you kind of think, well, he's

364
00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:27.480
someone who dresses up a murderous conspiracy in which, like

365
00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:28.620
people have been horribly killed.

366
00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:32.580
You know, he's going to start an intergalactic war, but he's

367
00:16:32.580 --> 00:16:34.019
dressing it up in moral language.

368
00:16:34.019 --> 00:16:36.179
And like, I don't think that makes it any better.

369
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:39.779
And I don't think that he deserves a pass or needs to be sort of

370
00:16:39.779 --> 00:16:44.220
regarded as somewhat somewhat more noble or worthwhile than

371
00:16:44.220 --> 00:16:45.120
Regan.

372
00:16:45.179 --> 00:16:48.419
And I think the big difference is exactly what you've been pointed

373
00:16:48.419 --> 00:16:52.259
it's class, you know, like he's a proper general and Regan's just

374
00:16:52.259 --> 00:16:53.580
a sort of thug.

375
00:16:53.820 --> 00:16:57.480
You see, I don't think the doctor saying to him, look, I

376
00:16:57.480 --> 00:16:59.820
understand, is a pass.

377
00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:04.019
I think it's just the doctor saying, you know, you need help.

378
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:07.019
I understand that in your twisted mind, this makes sense.

379
00:17:07.380 --> 00:17:10.500
He's placating the boing boing brain.

380
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:14.099
I think that I think that John Abaneri is the boring in

381
00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:15.299
ambassadors are boring.

382
00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:21.240
There is a fabulous moment where Carrington does his 1st kind of

383
00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:24.779
moral duty speech and he has to sort of, you know, bomb the

384
00:17:24.779 --> 00:17:25.200
aliens.

385
00:17:25.259 --> 00:17:26.220
They all want to be killed.

386
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:27.960
They killed my friend Jimmy or whatever.

387
00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:34.440
And the baby... very sort of quietly says, you know, I think the

388
00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:36.059
general's a bit overraw.

389
00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:39.059
And then you had that lovely thing of Cornish there.

390
00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:41.819
Cornish without the huge steel shoulder pads from the dominator.

391
00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:43.140
Yes, it says I think he's insane.

392
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:47.579
It's not a lovely treatment, the way they take the, is it Mike

393
00:17:47.579 --> 00:17:48.059
Cornish?

394
00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:49.859
Ralph, Ralph Cornish.

395
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:52.500
Everyone's called Mike and the 70s. or Jimmy.

396
00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:54.779
Yeah, isn't the game?

397
00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:58.079
Well, Ronald Allen, who we've just enjoyed so much in the

398
00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:00.059
dominators, dominatrix is.

399
00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:00.960
He's actually pretty good.

400
00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:03.900
We never said, he's probably the best thing in the dominators.

401
00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:05.700
He seems to try to give it some realism.

402
00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:06.900
I think he's superb in this.

403
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:08.279
Oh, I think he's really perfect.

404
00:18:08.339 --> 00:18:12.599
And the way that he pivots from complete antipathy towards Pertz

405
00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:16.380
and towards the doctor's extraordinary arrogance.

406
00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:20.400
The doctor's an absolute us in the 1st episode towards everyone.

407
00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:23.220
Well, I said this in our last episode.

408
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:26.819
The doctor's instinct is to go in there and just be arrogant and

409
00:18:26.819 --> 00:18:27.599
belittle everyone.

410
00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:31.980
And the Cornish starts to react badly to this and the brigadier

411
00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:34.920
kind of mates in calm down and per tweet backs down and

412
00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:35.339
apologise.

413
00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:38.339
So the 70s way of producing tension within the drama.

414
00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:40.680
Well, I mean, it's only it's only in episode one.

415
00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:42.539
It happens very quickly and it's kind of...

416
00:18:42.539 --> 00:18:45.480
Charms it up and starts doing a Sylvester McCoy magic tricks with

417
00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:46.980
the 4 inch tape, doesn't it?

418
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:50.160
Yeah, I think that's a, I think the important distinction here is

419
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:54.539
Cornish proves that he can do his job, whereas whereas Dr. Lawrence

420
00:18:54.539 --> 00:18:55.799
really couldn't do his job.

421
00:18:55.859 --> 00:18:59.099
And Cornish is intelligent and sympathetic and a rounded human

422
00:18:59.099 --> 00:18:59.400
being.

423
00:18:59.460 --> 00:19:01.680
I believe he's a real person that we're watching.

424
00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:04.920
I don't ever sort of thought by myself critically...

425
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:07.859
Sorry, I don't even find myself critiquing his performance, the

426
00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:09.420
luck I actually do with the lead in this.

427
00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:13.259
Yeah And I think Pertwee's doctor actually respects when someone

428
00:19:13.259 --> 00:19:16.500
butts heads back with him because that's the defining aspect of

429
00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:18.000
his relationship.

430
00:19:18.059 --> 00:19:19.980
It's a typical narcissist ploy too.

431
00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:20.700
I won't know.

432
00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:21.480
Well, it is.

433
00:19:21.539 --> 00:19:23.400
The bully only respects you if you bully back.

434
00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:27.480
I'm sure I'm not saying anything against the character of the

435
00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:27.960
doctor so far.

436
00:19:28.019 --> 00:19:29.640
Oh, he's a love story.

437
00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:31.619
It does...

438
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:32.640
I don't know, what do you think?

439
00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:36.599
I don't find I'm sitting comfortably with with how I loved the

440
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:39.480
doctor as a little boy that John Pertley's performance.

441
00:19:39.539 --> 00:19:41.940
I thought he was superb and it was a lovely hangover from the

442
00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:43.740
things we liked, like the Avengers.

443
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:45.299
But now I'm just getting a hangover.

444
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:50.759
I'm finding that, yeah, he's antagonistic out of, it just seems

445
00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:51.420
arrogance.

446
00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:54.480
I can't see any other reason for it I actually like it. because

447
00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:58.859
the thing to consider with the 3rd doctor is at least for his 1st

448
00:19:58.859 --> 00:19:59.279
3 years.

449
00:19:59.339 --> 00:20:00.960
Of course he's annoyed.

450
00:20:01.019 --> 00:20:05.039
He has had the entire university's disposal and now he's stuck

451
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:06.119
with these stupid apes.

452
00:20:06.180 --> 00:20:09.000
How is his performance any different from Eccleston?

453
00:20:09.059 --> 00:20:11.279
You could say that Billy was certainly arrogant.

454
00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:12.359
And yes, indeed.

455
00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:16.740
Eccles gets to be, but there's always causality.

456
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:18.420
There's always a good reason for it.

457
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:21.779
Whereas I think that pertly sense to jumping with it.

458
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:22.559
What do you think, though?

459
00:20:22.619 --> 00:20:23.759
What about Capaldi, though?

460
00:20:23.819 --> 00:20:25.619
Yeah, that's a whole new thing.

461
00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:28.619
But don't you notice how they keep throwing in the sensitivity of

462
00:20:28.619 --> 00:20:31.440
Capaldi and the fact that he's just so distanced from everybody

463
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:32.339
else around him.

464
00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:35.759
He can't, he's not really seeing people as the rest of us see

465
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:36.059
people.

466
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:37.859
He's much more alien than person.

467
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:40.019
Yeah, but I think it's the most alien doctor we've had.

468
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.599
Because perjury is patrician, really.

469
00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:45.420
But very, very, it's not even earthy.

470
00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:46.799
He's very Surrey in Chelsea.

471
00:20:46.859 --> 00:20:48.539
He's really never left the home penalty.

472
00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:49.559
No, that's what I mean.

473
00:20:49.619 --> 00:20:51.000
He's very contritious. very upperclass.

474
00:20:51.059 --> 00:20:52.920
He sort of comes in and he...

475
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:55.259
Yeah, for a man who's seen the universe and seen the Del Fonds.

476
00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:57.779
I think it was just on a video and a saucy video from France.

477
00:20:57.839 --> 00:20:59.759
I don't think he's ever actually gone.

478
00:20:59.819 --> 00:21:04.140
The thing is, so when the 3rd doctor realises that he's really

479
00:21:04.140 --> 00:21:05.940
getting someone's go-top.

480
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.900
He will he will often back down and especially with female

481
00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:12.240
characters such as Ms. Dawson.

482
00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:15.779
He will actually go, okay, I've gone a bit too far.

483
00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:19.200
I should try and be nice now. which again is something we see in

484
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:25.200
Capaldi when Clara tells him off for telling Courtney Wilkes

485
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:25.799
Courtney.

486
00:21:25.859 --> 00:21:26.700
Courtney Love.

487
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:27.299
Yeah.

488
00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:29.339
Courtney Act, yeah.

489
00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:32.460
For telling for telling Courtney that, you know, she'll never have

490
00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:32.940
out to anything.

491
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:35.940
Dr. Rachel Jones around says, oh, okay, fine, you know, I'll tell

492
00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:36.779
her she's wonderful.

493
00:21:37.259 --> 00:21:41.819
Perley's very much like that. like, you know, you might want to, he

494
00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:42.900
might be able to help you, doctor.

495
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:45.839
He is in charge and straight away the charm comes on and look, I

496
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:46.740
can help you, old chap.

497
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:49.859
You know, I'm not saying he's a perfect character by any means.

498
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:53.099
I think he's the most flawed doctor we had but I do think it's

499
00:21:53.099 --> 00:21:53.519
conscious.

500
00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:55.440
But I wonder...

501
00:21:55.500 --> 00:21:58.440
I'm sorry, you know, if I Capaldi charming with it and I'm not

502
00:21:58.440 --> 00:21:59.579
finding charm with this so far.

503
00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:01.619
I'm not a big fan.

504
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:03.000
He's my 1st doctor.

505
00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:04.619
Mine too, yeah.

506
00:22:04.740 --> 00:22:04.980
Yeah.

507
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:06.480
And mine.

508
00:22:06.539 --> 00:22:08.339
Oh, good.

509
00:22:08.460 --> 00:22:10.319
I remember my 1st Doctor Who was Carnival Monsters.

510
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:12.059
I think we've been here.

511
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:15.480
It's a great story. to his best, haven't we?

512
00:22:15.539 --> 00:22:17.700
I've got such affection for Katie.

513
00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:19.619
And why you're dressed as a mini scope, yes.

514
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:22.440
I actually think one of the things that will happen in the reboot

515
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:24.839
next season and the introduction of Katie is something that

516
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:25.980
we'll...

517
00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:28.799
I'm sorry, is Katie Manning coming back for season 9 of with Peter

518
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:29.460
Capaldi?

519
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:33.000
There are those photos of her in the control room of Capaldi.

520
00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:35.759
That's the best spoiler alert of this podcast.

521
00:22:35.819 --> 00:22:39.779
He does seem to be having photos taken with Doctor Who Companions

522
00:22:39.779 --> 00:22:40.440
from the past series.

523
00:22:40.500 --> 00:22:42.660
And I like, I think he's just going, the fans are going to go

524
00:22:42.660 --> 00:22:43.079
nuts.

525
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:44.279
He's going nuts.

526
00:22:44.339 --> 00:22:45.599
He's the biggest fanboy of the lot.

527
00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:47.880
I don't mind his jumping, timey, whimey thing we're doing here

528
00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:49.619
because can I just have an indulgent moment?

529
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:50.339
You can cut it out.

530
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:53.160
I really want Katie Manny in season nine, please.

531
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:54.839
She's so good.

532
00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:56.819
Can she just, even if it's just a guesty.

533
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:57.660
Can we just have?

534
00:22:57.720 --> 00:22:58.200
She's great.

535
00:22:58.259 --> 00:23:00.420
Have you seen her in the Sarah Jane Adventures episode?

536
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:01.680
Yeah, it's all my all-time fate.

537
00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:03.000
That's wonderful, isn't it?

538
00:23:03.059 --> 00:23:06.599
So you were 20 or 21 when I last saw you.

539
00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:07.200
Now look at you.

540
00:23:07.259 --> 00:23:08.640
It looks like someone's baked you.

541
00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:11.880
Imagine what the Bounty will say.

542
00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:14.279
Oh, what she'll say that?

543
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:16.559
Oh, I just hope she'll say, oh, God, again.

544
00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:19.380
Well, I'm not the old, only old one now, dear.

545
00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:21.539
Yes, yes, she'll be brilliant, yeah.

546
00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:24.420
I mean, she humanises pertly.

547
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:25.980
But she's not here yet, is she?

548
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:28.200
Don't you think Carrie Human?

549
00:23:28.259 --> 00:23:29.099
I'm sorry don't you think?

550
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:31.319
I should say Le sure humanises the doctor.

551
00:23:31.380 --> 00:23:34.440
Is that cliffhanger where she hangs off the weir?

552
00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:36.059
That's the cliffhanger to episode three?

553
00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:39.779
Because I think that means that she spends 4 episodes basically

554
00:23:39.779 --> 00:23:43.019
separated from him and sidelined in the plot.

555
00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:46.740
So we don't actually see that much of them together in this

556
00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:46.980
story.

557
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:50.220
We do see one very important scene of them together, though.

558
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:53.039
I think it's in episode 6 when they kidnap the doctor. and when

559
00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:54.599
they bring him in and truck him on the floor.

560
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:57.359
When he wakes up, she's already kneeling.

561
00:23:57.420 --> 00:23:58.079
It's a touching moment.

562
00:23:58.740 --> 00:24:00.000
I hope they hurt you.

563
00:24:00.059 --> 00:24:00.299
Yes.

564
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:02.579
Yeah, especially with doctor.

565
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:04.619
He is so loud and so ebullient.

566
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:07.019
When he's saying have a, it's a whisper.

567
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:07.380
Yeah.

568
00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:07.920
You know?

569
00:24:07.980 --> 00:24:09.839
And it's not, are we being listened to?

570
00:24:09.900 --> 00:24:10.500
it's right now.

571
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:12.059
It's you and me.

572
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:12.480
That's it.

573
00:24:12.539 --> 00:24:13.859
That really works for me too.

574
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:17.880
Just because it's such a change of weather from how you normally

575
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:18.299
has been.

576
00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:22.259
And I think, you know, more than any other time in the classic

577
00:24:22.259 --> 00:24:26.039
series, that, you know what, I'm going to say, more than Billy and

578
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:29.759
Barbara, that is a moment where I get, you know, the doctor loves

579
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:30.180
this woman.

580
00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:31.259
Okay.

581
00:24:31.259 --> 00:24:35.160
You know, or at the very least has a very strong emotion towards

582
00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:37.680
her that he can't quite quantify because he is such a distant

583
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:39.900
character, emotionally distant and unavailable.

584
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:44.160
There are terrific, mutually respectful team, which I think she's

585
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:47.460
the most feminist character we've had in the series and possibly

586
00:24:47.460 --> 00:24:48.180
we'll have for a while.

587
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:49.619
She's actually...

588
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:51.059
She doesn't make any noise about it.

589
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:51.779
She just does it.

590
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:52.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

591
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:53.700
And she is...

592
00:24:53.700 --> 00:24:54.539
She's Aunt Travis.

593
00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:56.460
Thank you, because yeah, we were going to have her, weren't we?

594
00:24:56.519 --> 00:25:00.299
You know, there are, there are 2, there are 2 moments in, I think

595
00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:04.019
in, inside Urians where she tells the brigadier often than the

596
00:25:04.019 --> 00:25:06.420
doctor undermines her, like the brigadier tells her to do

597
00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:08.099
something, she says, no, don't be so silly.

598
00:25:08.220 --> 00:25:09.240
I'm going to do that.

599
00:25:09.299 --> 00:25:12.240
And the doctor says, no, Liz, do as you're told, you know.

600
00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:16.500
And that's always a bit of a shame because she is, she's not, you

601
00:25:16.500 --> 00:25:19.440
know, Sarah Jane in season 11 where she comes in telling everyone

602
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:21.000
what a big feminist she is.

603
00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:25.200
She is just, you know, a terribly accomplished and self-assured

604
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:29.339
person with lots of degrees and lots of ability, and she's very no

605
00:25:29.339 --> 00:25:33.900
nonsense, and she is very snarky and very funny, and she does, and

606
00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:36.539
she, you know, in that in that cliffhanger to episode 3 where

607
00:25:36.539 --> 00:25:37.859
she's dangling on the weird.

608
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:39.960
She does smack that one guy.

609
00:25:40.019 --> 00:25:41.880
Pretty nicely, too.

610
00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:45.720
She just compels people to respect her because she expects respect

611
00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:46.440
and turn.

612
00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:50.640
I want to refer you all to having another look if since we're

613
00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:54.660
going out at this time of Benedict Cumberbatch's role of touring

614
00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:57.900
because Kira Knightley plays the character of Joan Clarke.

615
00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:00.539
I don't remember reading in any of the books about Alan Teering as

616
00:26:00.539 --> 00:26:00.900
being there.

617
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:04.380
But anyway, the character is pewterly sure right down to the week

618
00:26:04.380 --> 00:26:07.740
a very clever woman who's disregarded by the establishment, but

619
00:26:07.740 --> 00:26:11.039
soon proves herself to be the equal of the doctor character in

620
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:11.940
Alan Turing.

621
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:13.680
So yeah, have a look at that.

622
00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:17.759
But this character, this very smart woman has featured through

623
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:21.299
film and through TV for a long time, not so much previously, but

624
00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:22.619
certainly very much in the future.

625
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:25.259
I think she's a character, not just from the 80s, but from now.

626
00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:28.500
And it's one of the main reasons I really like Carol and John as

627
00:26:28.500 --> 00:26:30.480
we sure, she's a timeless character.

628
00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:33.839
She could be up with Capaldi next year and she wouldn't look dated

629
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:34.140
at all.

630
00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:37.799
It's very telling that of all the companion characters.

631
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:43.740
The one who got the spinoff series from BBB wasn't really short.

632
00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:48.839
The probe series, because she is so interesting, it has enough of

633
00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:53.339
her own thing going on that, you know, you can have stories about

634
00:26:53.339 --> 00:26:53.700
her.

635
00:26:53.700 --> 00:26:57.420
And, you know, the series does also feature Louise Jameson in a

636
00:26:57.420 --> 00:26:57.839
new role.

637
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:02.099
What sort of probes, were they mind, mind probes?

638
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:05.099
Well, in a couple of episodes, they probed Peter Davidson and Mark

639
00:27:05.099 --> 00:27:05.519
Gaitis.

640
00:27:05.579 --> 00:27:07.019
So there you go. like you do.

641
00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:08.700
Should I kiss him now?

642
00:27:10.140 --> 00:27:12.599
I'll kiss Peter Dobes.

643
00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:18.059
God, I hope everyone's seen the kidnappers schedule on the DVD, you

644
00:27:18.059 --> 00:27:18.180
know.

645
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:20.460
Send your own drawings and send them in, yeah.

646
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:25.920
I'm going to have a lot of work justifying this bit in the show

647
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:26.400
notes.

648
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:30.180
Probe's not that bad?

649
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:32.160
I've never even heard of it.

650
00:27:32.220 --> 00:27:33.420
You okay.

651
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:34.079
That's good.

652
00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:38.940
Right, spinoff series, preternatural observation.

653
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:40.799
That would be Pope.

654
00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:42.000
Damn it.

655
00:27:42.059 --> 00:27:44.400
Oh, could be prevent.

656
00:27:44.460 --> 00:27:44.700
Okay.

657
00:27:44.700 --> 00:27:46.740
Oh, um, rapey observation.

658
00:27:46.859 --> 00:27:50.279
I think it stands for preternatural observation and examination

659
00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:50.640
unit.

660
00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:51.960
Oh, dear.

661
00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:53.579
That actually makes it worse.

662
00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:55.859
It's Lee Shaw doing the X-Files.

663
00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:56.519
Yeah, yeah.

664
00:27:57.059 --> 00:28:02.519
Or that lovely thing they do with Pamela Salem and the other and

665
00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:05.099
the other characters from Remembrance of the Daleks.

666
00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:06.539
Oh, countermeasures.

667
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:07.319
Oh, it's great.

668
00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:11.579
Well, probe is, yeah, it's Lee Shaw and her friend who is a

669
00:28:11.579 --> 00:28:13.500
detective inspector played by Louise Jameson.

670
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:16.920
And they're investigating supernatural events.

671
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:20.519
She's the Kathy Burke character from the French and Saunders alien

672
00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:20.819
the movie.

673
00:28:20.940 --> 00:28:22.140
Oh, excellent.

674
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:25.380
But what if she thinks she's scorny?

675
00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:28.200
But what's really, what's really great.

676
00:28:28.259 --> 00:28:31.140
And I think it's a wonderful addition to Liz's character is Liz

677
00:28:31.140 --> 00:28:31.920
smokes a pipe.

678
00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:33.839
Do you know she does in real life?

679
00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:34.859
Her daughter.

680
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:38.640
Her daughter Daisy Ashford, certainly, a bit Doco on spearhead on

681
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:41.759
the spearhead Blu-ray that, you know, mum smoked a pipe.

682
00:28:41.819 --> 00:28:45.299
She was really eccentric and terrific and much more like the

683
00:28:45.299 --> 00:28:47.940
character of Lee Shaw than people realise.

684
00:28:48.059 --> 00:28:50.460
Now, okay, Nathan, you're making a paint expression.

685
00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:54.480
I should point out these were written by Mark Gates.

686
00:28:54.539 --> 00:28:55.140
Oh, okay.

687
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:56.339
So the scripts are quite good.

688
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:58.200
Mark Gators appears and I think 2 of them.

689
00:28:58.259 --> 00:28:59.940
Peter Davidson appears in 2 of them.

690
00:29:00.059 --> 00:29:01.259
I've been lucky enough to hear one.

691
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:01.799
I loved it.

692
00:29:01.859 --> 00:29:02.819
Yeah, I love who there is.

693
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:04.740
So yeah, there's there's 4 in total.

694
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:06.180
Are they audios?

695
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:06.720
They're video.

696
00:29:06.779 --> 00:29:09.059
They're BBV, but I switched it.

697
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:11.160
So they're all available on...

698
00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:12.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

699
00:29:12.299 --> 00:29:15.660
So, yeah, I think I've got copies.

700
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:17.039
I think they're well worth checking out.

701
00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:20.400
I look quite well, actually, they look quite early 70s, Doctor Who

702
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:20.880
don't they?

703
00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:23.880
Yeah, they're shot on, they're shot on video, handicam.

704
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:25.140
Yeah.

705
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:27.420
There you go.

706
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.000
So she went on to have a full rich and satisfying life despite

707
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:31.920
going back to Cambridge and never seeing the doctor again.

708
00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:33.900
Oh, spoiler alert.

709
00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:34.920
Let's find out why.

710
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:40.440
I'm very worried about security at Space Control given that Regan

711
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:45.720
breaks into the complex and sabotages the fuel for the doctor's

712
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:49.380
launch. filling it with extra badly spelled M3 variant.

713
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:54.119
And then the very next episode he breaks in again and poisons the

714
00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:59.039
doctor's sexual air supply as he is in quarantine on the way

715
00:29:59.039 --> 00:29:59.220
back.

716
00:29:59.339 --> 00:30:03.000
But you've got to remember that he's got a general in his pocket

717
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:04.559
or vice versa.

718
00:30:04.619 --> 00:30:08.160
And that's something I find really great about this story because

719
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:09.779
I mean, we should talk about the genesis of it.

720
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:13.019
It was, 1st of all, written by David Whitaker.

721
00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:16.859
He wrote a full set of scripts, but he wrote them for Pat, Wendy

722
00:30:16.859 --> 00:30:17.460
and Fraser.

723
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:17.880
Yeah.

724
00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:20.339
And so the format changed.

725
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:21.599
It was originally set in the far future.

726
00:30:21.660 --> 00:30:24.539
The format changed and so they had to change the characters and it

727
00:30:24.539 --> 00:30:27.180
got to the point where he was just rewriting and rewriting it, but

728
00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:28.200
it was actually getting worse.

729
00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:31.500
You know, the way when sometimes you go over something and over

730
00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:33.480
something and over something to the point that you had nothing

731
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:34.559
original to add to it.

732
00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:37.140
It's like actors on a stage comedy.

733
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:39.660
A lot of actors on a stage comedy say they can't stay in the role

734
00:30:39.660 --> 00:30:42.359
forever because eventually the jokes aren't funny anymore.

735
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:47.880
Terrence Dix demanded that David Whitter could be paid in full and

736
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:51.779
said, right, I'll write it with Mac Hawk and my assistant, Trevor

737
00:30:51.779 --> 00:30:52.200
Ray.

738
00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:53.640
He'd also moved to Australia.

739
00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:55.440
Yeah, he was busy moving to Australia.

740
00:30:55.500 --> 00:30:57.539
Yeah, it was totally difficult doing all of that.

741
00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:02.279
And interestingly, this was actually Trevor Ray's last work on the

742
00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:02.700
program.

743
00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:05.640
Allegedly, he had a very low opinion of Mac Hulk.

744
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:07.980
Well, that's...

745
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:09.240
Yeah, exactly.

746
00:31:09.299 --> 00:31:10.859
To the point that...

747
00:31:10.859 --> 00:31:15.420
Thank you for that pertly... to the point that apparently Trevor

748
00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:20.160
Ray in the hearing of Terrence Dix called Mac Hulk, Hack Mulk.

749
00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:21.119
Brilliant.

750
00:31:21.180 --> 00:31:22.980
And terrible witch.

751
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:25.980
Terence pretty much went on the whole, you'll work in this town

752
00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:26.400
again.

753
00:31:26.460 --> 00:31:27.960
How dare you insult my mentor?

754
00:31:28.019 --> 00:31:29.400
is absolutely fantastic.

755
00:31:29.460 --> 00:31:31.140
You know who else we get in this one, though?

756
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:33.480
We get civil shaps.

757
00:31:33.539 --> 00:31:36.839
We do get serious. doing another fabulous cereal chefs.

758
00:31:36.900 --> 00:31:39.119
First, before we move on to Silver Shaps.

759
00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:41.160
What I wanted to say was, that's okay.

760
00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:45.000
Malcolm Hawke said you can only have a mad sign to store an alien

761
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:45.539
invasion.

762
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.299
It looks like what's happened here is Malcolm Holt's inverted that

763
00:31:48.299 --> 00:31:50.160
we don't have a mad scientist. a mad soldier.

764
00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:53.400
Ah, we don't have an alien invasion.

765
00:31:53.460 --> 00:31:55.559
We're keeping them prisoner, right?

766
00:31:55.619 --> 00:31:56.759
We're the baddies in this story.

767
00:31:56.819 --> 00:31:58.019
Nice, nice, nice.

768
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:01.079
But we also have Mr. Jeffrey Beaver's as Private Johnson.

769
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:02.759
Oh, yes, we've got Jeffrey Beavers.

770
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:06.180
Oh, I meant to notice him because he was at Lords of Time a couple

771
00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:08.160
of weeks ago, yeah. mentions that he's in it.

772
00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:11.039
Well, I think he's the one who gives Benton the Morse message.

773
00:32:11.099 --> 00:32:12.779
The doctor's sending it.

774
00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:13.980
He does, that's him.

775
00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:16.980
And I'm thinking, where's the scene where Dr. Lee Shaw comes

776
00:32:16.980 --> 00:32:18.900
across Private Johnson and Snigger Snigger?

777
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:21.119
There's a reason she can't come back next year, is it?

778
00:32:21.180 --> 00:32:23.279
God, that'd be wonderful.

779
00:32:23.339 --> 00:32:24.420
But yeah, Cyril Chaps.

780
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:25.799
Getting back to Cyril Shaps.

781
00:32:26.099 --> 00:32:28.799
Everyone's favourite Archie man drive.

782
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:30.900
Without that.

783
00:32:30.900 --> 00:32:33.720
And, you know, what about his death?

784
00:32:33.779 --> 00:32:36.119
He's sitting there expecting a lovely lunch.

785
00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:38.039
She lives...

786
00:32:38.099 --> 00:32:40.019
And it's like an ice.

787
00:32:40.019 --> 00:32:40.920
He's locked in the thing.

788
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:42.059
He does the face.

789
00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:45.900
No wonder people thought they were watching the Avengers.

790
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:47.819
Yes, very Avengers.

791
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:48.839
Who did that?

792
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:51.900
Wait, because it's Benton's voice, though.

793
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:54.240
Yeah, Benton kills him.

794
00:32:54.299 --> 00:32:55.559
Yeah, so...

795
00:32:55.559 --> 00:32:57.180
Who actually killed him?

796
00:32:57.240 --> 00:32:58.799
It actually looks like it is Benton.

797
00:32:58.859 --> 00:33:00.599
That's what, they're rewatching just for that?

798
00:33:00.660 --> 00:33:03.240
Because Benton has already said that exact same line.

799
00:33:03.299 --> 00:33:04.380
Yes, sir, I'll lock the door.

800
00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:06.240
So it sounds exactly the same.

801
00:33:06.299 --> 00:33:09.660
So the only, you know, unless Benton is a cold-hearted killer...

802
00:33:09.779 --> 00:33:10.680
Well, he just wants a bigger part.

803
00:33:11.339 --> 00:33:14.400
Well, like a certain person in terror of the verboids, who we

804
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:16.859
won't mention for a while, but it's a very popular theory by Sir

805
00:33:16.859 --> 00:33:17.339
Gary Russell.

806
00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:19.200
Unless Benson is a mass murderer.

807
00:33:19.259 --> 00:33:21.299
He's just brought up the tray from the kitchen, hasn't looked at

808
00:33:21.299 --> 00:33:21.480
it.

809
00:33:21.539 --> 00:33:23.640
But as we see from Benton later, he eats everything.

810
00:33:23.700 --> 00:33:25.259
So it must be Benton.

811
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:26.339
Yeah, it's mentioned.

812
00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:27.599
Don't you kill still sharps?

813
00:33:27.660 --> 00:33:28.740
They'll get the recommend.

814
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:31.200
But it wasn't part of the conspiracy.

815
00:33:31.259 --> 00:33:33.539
He ate Cyril Champs as lunch.

816
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:37.500
He was really embarrassed about it. and didn't want him telling

817
00:33:37.500 --> 00:33:38.039
anyone.

818
00:33:38.099 --> 00:33:41.160
So he just shoved a nearby isotope in there.

819
00:33:41.220 --> 00:33:43.920
Yeah, because, you know, Benton just happens to keep those lying

820
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:45.539
around for his ballroom dancing lessons.

821
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:46.680
Yeah, well, he wouldn't.

822
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:50.579
So now into woozy woo places now.

823
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:52.559
This was originally called Invaders from Mars.

824
00:33:52.619 --> 00:33:55.380
And then Carrie...

825
00:33:55.380 --> 00:33:56.759
Yeah, it's Carrie.

826
00:33:56.819 --> 00:34:00.359
They've made it to my, it's my, actually my favourite earlier on

827
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:03.720
Big Finnish audio, so Paul McGann, written by Mark Gatis.

828
00:34:03.779 --> 00:34:04.500
People don't like it.

829
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:06.119
I know Gary Russell doesn't.

830
00:34:06.180 --> 00:34:07.200
You don't like it?

831
00:34:07.259 --> 00:34:08.579
I think it's fantastic.

832
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:09.300
It's wonderful.

833
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:10.500
That's my go-to.

834
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:14.159
You've got Simon Pegg and Jessica Stevenson.

835
00:34:14.219 --> 00:34:15.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

836
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:18.000
And it's in the 30s and it names awesome wells and it's just

837
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:18.659
superb.

838
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:21.960
It's got it's got George Caluras from Keys of Madness.

839
00:34:22.019 --> 00:34:23.039
Oh, there you go, then.

840
00:34:23.099 --> 00:34:25.739
I listen to it in France, but I can't really remember.

841
00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:26.460
How exalted?

842
00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:27.840
I was paying attention.

843
00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:29.280
Probably a lot of apps.

844
00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:31.019
Yeah, yeah.

845
00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:33.300
What else could we say about this lovely?

846
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:34.860
Was this your story, but it was mine.

847
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:35.699
This was amazing.

848
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:38.280
But it's another example of having lots of overlapping plots.

849
00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:41.519
And again, much like war games, you know, written in a hurry by by

850
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:42.239
Terence and Mac.

851
00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:43.739
The overlapping plots here.

852
00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:46.679
You've got the 1st rescue of the astronauts and they come back, but

853
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:49.019
then you've got the conspiracy of kidnapping the astronauts.

854
00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:51.360
And then you've got the story about, well, the astronauts have

855
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:52.860
been horribly irradiated.

856
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:55.739
So the doctor has to go up and rescue the astronauts again, but

857
00:34:55.739 --> 00:34:56.699
that doesn't work.

858
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:59.760
And then you get the quote unquote invasion plotline, which is

859
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:00.840
actually a forced invasion.

860
00:35:00.900 --> 00:35:04.440
And then you get the whole idea of, no, they're exploiting these

861
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:04.920
aliens.

862
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:09.480
And then you get the climax is weird because it's somewhat

863
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:12.599
anticlimactic, but at the same time, you're like, well, I don't

864
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:16.320
really want to see a massive war and earth being bombed into

865
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:16.860
submission.

866
00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:20.760
So an anticlimax is actually good on this occasion.

867
00:35:20.820 --> 00:35:22.500
Maybe if you're sweet.

868
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:25.800
I love the way they end it, just walking off the huge stairs.

869
00:35:25.860 --> 00:35:27.119
Cheerio, time to launch.

870
00:35:27.179 --> 00:35:29.159
And, you know, that's very strange, isn't it?

871
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:30.119
It's very English space.

872
00:35:30.179 --> 00:35:33.360
It could have been a finale for this, sure, because the doctor

873
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:34.920
says, oh, she's far more qualified?

874
00:35:34.980 --> 00:35:35.880
You stay here, my dear.

875
00:35:35.940 --> 00:35:37.139
Just warmed her off.

876
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.780
Yeah, no, it's kind of like that. a nice handover if you look at

877
00:35:39.780 --> 00:35:40.139
it that way.

878
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:41.699
Well, they haven't quite got the message.

879
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:42.659
Gareth Roberts says.

880
00:35:43.139 --> 00:35:46.739
They haven't quite got the message to the show's formats changed

881
00:35:46.739 --> 00:35:48.599
and the doctor doesn't leave at the end of every story.

882
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:49.980
So we have a scene.

883
00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:52.260
He just leaves at the end of this story because we kind of used it

884
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.619
go back to his lovely cottage in Betsy. to go back to TV comic

885
00:35:55.619 --> 00:36:00.360
plan. fights the scarecrows of doom. like to think so.

886
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.820
Well, remember, they forced his regeneration.

887
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:06.119
Godwin nerds. don't know what you're talking about.

888
00:36:06.179 --> 00:36:07.619
So what are you saying about Gareth Roberts?

889
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:11.880
I know not to labour it, but if you swap around Inferno and

890
00:36:11.880 --> 00:36:14.519
Ambassador's Deck in the story or that, Liz Shaw gets a leaving

891
00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:14.820
suit.

892
00:36:14.940 --> 00:36:20.280
Because she gets to stay behind and interpret like a to liaise

893
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:21.900
would be and...

894
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:24.659
Which, you know, it's a pretty good job for a physicist.

895
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:25.559
Yeah, yeah.

896
00:36:34.619 --> 00:36:38.159
Here we are passing through from warp point into warp 2 into the

897
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:41.039
world of the Mohole project, Inferno.

898
00:36:41.099 --> 00:36:46.139
And this was mine again, and thank you, Randomiser, because this

899
00:36:46.139 --> 00:36:48.179
is probably my favourite.

900
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:49.500
Is that why we're all in comedy beards?

901
00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:50.760
It's really not very good.

902
00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:53.940
I've lost all my depth perception because of this eye patch.

903
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:56.460
How could it not be good when you've got exactly the same

904
00:36:56.460 --> 00:36:59.760
exposition to exactly the same character in 2 different universes

905
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:02.579
when the doctor explains the plot to the brigadier, not ones, but

906
00:37:02.579 --> 00:37:02.940
twice?

907
00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:06.360
the same story embedded inside itself twice.

908
00:37:06.420 --> 00:37:08.699
Yeah, which is not an uncomfortable position.

909
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:11.760
I'm taken back to the Tadurkum.

910
00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:17.940
This is kind of its own version of that scene in James Cameron's

911
00:37:17.940 --> 00:37:19.500
Titanic when you've got...

912
00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:25.980
When you've got Leonardo and Kate Winslet in a car in a boat. in a

913
00:37:25.980 --> 00:37:27.000
studio on an ocean.

914
00:37:27.059 --> 00:37:29.039
You've actually got a story within a story here.

915
00:37:29.099 --> 00:37:31.320
I happen you're not like this story. terrific.

916
00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:33.360
It's got the best cliffhanger of all time.

917
00:37:33.420 --> 00:37:34.320
Oh, great.

918
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:35.880
Which one's your 1st one?

919
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:37.260
The one what Kate Orman said.

920
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:38.639
With the countdown.

921
00:37:38.699 --> 00:37:39.360
That's it.

922
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:41.280
Where the countdown goes over the closing credit.

923
00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:41.940
Yes.

924
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:43.139
Yeah, and and...

925
00:37:43.139 --> 00:37:45.840
And the screening and the music rises after...

926
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:49.019
Yeah, and then you get the... so many good Kurfackers in this.

927
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:51.420
I mean you've got Benton threatening to shoot the doctor.

928
00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:55.500
And it's so weird because in just a few shorter appearances, John

929
00:37:55.500 --> 00:37:58.320
Levine has actually crafted a character you really like.

930
00:37:58.380 --> 00:38:01.500
I mean, this is the 1st time you actually see Benton's character

931
00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:04.920
when he's sort of giggling about the Brigadier's photo, but you

932
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:07.679
see enough of him in the last few stories to know that he's quite

933
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:09.059
an affable chap and whatnot.

934
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:10.019
So when he's...

935
00:38:10.019 --> 00:38:11.940
Other than when he's murdering Cyril Shepps.

936
00:38:12.659 --> 00:38:17.039
But when he is, um, not exactly transformed, but when there is

937
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:21.480
this other version of him who is callous and really sadistic.

938
00:38:21.539 --> 00:38:24.059
And he plays it very well.

939
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:26.460
He sort of says in the making of that he was worried he was too

940
00:38:26.460 --> 00:38:28.860
gentle, but no, he plays it really well, in my opinion.

941
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:34.019
It's actually quite shocking and he's really believably nasty and

942
00:38:34.019 --> 00:38:37.500
therefore it is such a job and I think he's possibly the 1st

943
00:38:37.500 --> 00:38:42.239
heroic character in Doctor to have a cliffhanger that he's turned

944
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:44.699
you know, aside from the doctor itself.

945
00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:49.320
I think he's actually, I actually think he does a very good job in

946
00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:51.360
very quickly selling the parallel world.

947
00:38:51.420 --> 00:38:54.780
It's the most salient and that's the most controversial.

948
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:55.920
For someone who hasn't seen this show.

949
00:38:55.980 --> 00:38:56.639
So, yeah.

950
00:38:56.699 --> 00:38:57.000
Yeah.

951
00:38:57.059 --> 00:38:57.900
It's another base.

952
00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:00.119
It's another intransition base command.

953
00:39:00.179 --> 00:39:04.679
It's the whole thing, another scientific establishment, another

954
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:06.840
source of unlimited cheap power.

955
00:39:06.900 --> 00:39:07.980
So what happens?

956
00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:11.760
and his grammarous assistant to called out there. visiting.

957
00:39:11.820 --> 00:39:15.659
They're not called out, the doctors, pretending that he wants to

958
00:39:15.659 --> 00:39:19.199
consult there so he can use the power from their nuclear

959
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:19.619
generation.

960
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:21.119
Which is great.

961
00:39:21.179 --> 00:39:23.699
Because that's obviously Barry Letts going, you know, he wouldn't

962
00:39:23.699 --> 00:39:26.219
just sit around and accept this meekly. trying to get off the

963
00:39:26.219 --> 00:39:26.460
planet.

964
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:30.420
But he's also kind of a bit obnoxious and stuff and he is he

965
00:39:30.420 --> 00:39:33.179
insists that the brigadier investigates, but it's all just a

966
00:39:33.179 --> 00:39:33.420
cover.

967
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:37.920
So 2 episodes where we're in there, he has conflict with the base

968
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:38.460
commander.

969
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:40.739
He's, you know, obnoxious, but actually quite funny.

970
00:39:40.860 --> 00:39:44.159
The line about Stalman's liver playing him up again.

971
00:39:44.219 --> 00:39:45.539
Like, he's actually pretty funny.

972
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:49.380
And then he slips into in episode two.

973
00:39:49.380 --> 00:39:50.820
End of episode two.

974
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:51.719
That's the clip.

975
00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:53.760
He slips into a parallel world.

976
00:39:53.820 --> 00:39:57.059
He actually spends 4 episodes in that parallel world.

977
00:39:57.119 --> 00:39:58.320
Yeah, 3 through six.

978
00:39:58.380 --> 00:40:02.699
He comes back for the resolution of the story in episode seven.

979
00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:05.579
And the parallel world is a fascist parallel world.

980
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:07.920
It's, you know, there's elements of Big Brother in it.

981
00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:10.440
There's that big poster that says unity is strength with a picture

982
00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:14.340
of the smiling dictator on the wall at the heart when he 1st

983
00:40:14.340 --> 00:40:15.420
appears.

984
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:18.179
The royal family we've learned have been massacred.

985
00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:19.920
And it was in the mid 40s.

986
00:40:19.980 --> 00:40:22.860
So the implication is definitely that either Germany or Russia or

987
00:40:22.860 --> 00:40:25.380
possibly both took over Britain at that time.

988
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:29.039
The defence of the Republic Act, 1943 gets mentioned.

989
00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:32.099
So it's in the mid 40s, you know, that seems to be established.

990
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:33.780
We're not working for unit anymore.

991
00:40:33.900 --> 00:40:40.440
It's the Republican security forces and the Mohole project is in

992
00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:43.380
fact a scientific labour camp.

993
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:46.019
So they're all working there under duress.

994
00:40:46.139 --> 00:40:49.380
Did they call it the mohole project in this as well?

995
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:52.019
No, because you know where this goes back to in real life.

996
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:55.679
This was something that America talked about in 1957.

997
00:40:55.860 --> 00:40:58.980
Um, there was, you know, you know, it was actually the 57

998
00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:01.320
consumption. everyone who's listening would also know that it was

999
00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:03.000
international geophysical year.

1000
00:41:03.059 --> 00:41:06.599
Oh, hold your nerdy badge up with pride.

1001
00:41:06.659 --> 00:41:07.980
Yeah, that are amazing.

1002
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:08.699
They rocked you.

1003
00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:10.139
They were just insane.

1004
00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:11.880
First hats were just ridiculous.

1005
00:41:11.940 --> 00:41:14.760
Britain sent off Dr. Vivian Folks.

1006
00:41:14.820 --> 00:41:17.340
Vivian Fay, Dr. Vivian Fay.

1007
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:19.739
Yes, off on another polar, lovely thing.

1008
00:41:19.860 --> 00:41:24.659
But America, America was drilling into the depths.

1009
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:27.960
And this theory all came about 100 years previously with a

1010
00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:31.619
Croatian geologist, Andrea Mohorovachic.

1011
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:36.179
But that was just called the moho project or the mohole project

1012
00:41:36.179 --> 00:41:36.480
for sure.

1013
00:41:36.539 --> 00:41:39.900
But they had envisaged that there would be the existence of

1014
00:41:39.900 --> 00:41:45.480
between the crust and the mantle, this magmari, Uzi, Captain

1015
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:47.820
Kremen stuff that could be used as a source of energy.

1016
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:48.239
I know.

1017
00:41:48.300 --> 00:41:49.019
How nuts is that?

1018
00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:50.280
1957.

1019
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:54.719
Buga Sputnik, there was great stuff going on just onto the toast.

1020
00:41:54.780 --> 00:41:58.079
So yeah, this thing was still being talked about when the story

1021
00:41:58.079 --> 00:41:59.460
was put put on.

1022
00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:03.480
Yeah, Don Horton, the author, actually contacted both the Russian

1023
00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:08.219
and America embassies because Russia had also tried a drilling

1024
00:42:08.219 --> 00:42:10.679
project of similar nature and both projects stopped very

1025
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:11.099
suddenly.

1026
00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:12.840
And when he tried to get information on them.

1027
00:42:12.900 --> 00:42:15.960
The embassy staff at 1st said, oh, yeah, sure, I'll go find that

1028
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:17.519
out and then call him back and said, that's completely

1029
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:18.059
classified.

1030
00:42:18.059 --> 00:42:18.599
Why are you asking?

1031
00:42:18.659 --> 00:42:19.139
Yep.

1032
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:22.619
So they muttering things about werewolves and staff as well.

1033
00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:24.179
There was that werewolf thing.

1034
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:27.119
Yeah, something like heemable, stuff.

1035
00:42:27.179 --> 00:42:31.079
So I will say that the werewolves, the Primords.

1036
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:34.860
Well, they were the main sticking point for rock.

1037
00:42:34.980 --> 00:42:36.960
Like when he was giving me assaults on the episode.

1038
00:42:37.019 --> 00:42:39.780
He was like, you know, what a great sci-fi idea, and it's a really

1039
00:42:39.780 --> 00:42:43.199
different way to do an evil twin story, and it's great how the 2

1040
00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:45.659
plots evolve concurrently.

1041
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:47.940
And then you've got bleeping werewolves.

1042
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:51.960
Why is it always bleeping green??

1043
00:42:52.019 --> 00:42:54.960
It's actually after Kernan Doyle's 1928 story.

1044
00:42:55.019 --> 00:42:56.880
Did you realise he was still around and writing back then?

1045
00:42:56.940 --> 00:43:00.239
It's called when the world screamed and it's pretty much the same

1046
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:01.079
thing that happens.

1047
00:43:01.139 --> 00:43:06.059
Hairy, great, thrusty beasts with clamorous claws and jump up

1048
00:43:06.059 --> 00:43:06.840
in...

1049
00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:08.219
And plastic.

1050
00:43:08.219 --> 00:43:13.019
Try and have their wolfy, hairy way with young geologists in pith

1051
00:43:13.019 --> 00:43:15.119
helmets. right?

1052
00:43:15.179 --> 00:43:16.559
It does, doesn't it?

1053
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:22.500
So, so they cut out that you can get enough kind of door. think

1054
00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:23.219
you might be able to.

1055
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:27.480
So the big question is what's the parallel universe for?

1056
00:43:27.539 --> 00:43:29.340
I mean, why do we have stretch?

1057
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:34.139
Well, I think it's also from a story point of view and from a

1058
00:43:34.139 --> 00:43:36.900
character point of view, it's to allow the doctor to lose.

1059
00:43:37.019 --> 00:43:39.239
Oh, yeah, well said.

1060
00:43:39.300 --> 00:43:41.639
Because the problem here is because he's saving earth.

1061
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:45.059
The earth can't be destroyed because the viewer at home.

1062
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:48.239
That's too much of a suspension of disbelief.

1063
00:43:48.300 --> 00:43:52.860
But if you have a different earth, that can be destroyed and it

1064
00:43:52.860 --> 00:43:57.239
can also then threaten the earthware on and that's where the

1065
00:43:57.239 --> 00:43:58.139
threat comes from.

1066
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:01.079
So the Primords are a threat, but the Primords are never really a

1067
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:02.519
threat that they're going to overrun the world.

1068
00:44:02.579 --> 00:44:03.539
There's only 2 or 3 of them.

1069
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:06.659
There's more in the parallel world than in our world.

1070
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:11.159
But the threat is coming from the fact that not only has one

1071
00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:12.659
version verse been destroyed.

1072
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:15.119
The other version of Earth could be destroyed, and it's a great

1073
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:18.000
thing in the 5 episode where, you know what?

1074
00:44:18.059 --> 00:44:20.519
If you hadn't seen the doctor go through everything he's gone

1075
00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:22.380
through the parallel world, of course he's going to look

1076
00:44:22.380 --> 00:44:23.519
completely insane.

1077
00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:27.599
Yeah, I mean, he does come out and sort of start smashing things

1078
00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:28.920
up with a big wrench and stuff.

1079
00:44:28.980 --> 00:44:31.500
Like he doesn't really help his cause very much.

1080
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:35.099
And he does know by this point that Stalman's been infected by the

1081
00:44:35.099 --> 00:44:37.019
goo that comes up the pipe.

1082
00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:37.619
Yes.

1083
00:44:37.619 --> 00:44:40.860
And he doesn't say, you know, by the way, have a look at Salmon

1084
00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:43.559
his palms are looking pretty hairy at the moment or anything like

1085
00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:43.860
that.

1086
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:45.780
So he doesn't really help.

1087
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:50.039
But look, I think that that allowing the doctor to lose is quite a

1088
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:53.400
good reason for it, and certainly, I think episode 6 is

1089
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:57.960
spectacularly good, where the world is, like they, penetration 0

1090
00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:01.019
happens, like there are, there are 2 episodes.

1091
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:01.679
I know.

1092
00:45:01.739 --> 00:45:04.019
I want to say penetration 0 again.

1093
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:06.480
I'm going to say mirror, mirror.

1094
00:45:06.539 --> 00:45:08.639
We're not back to Star Trek yet, are we?

1095
00:45:08.699 --> 00:45:12.300
No, so, um, oh, no, Star Trek had been on in 1970, but I mean, we

1096
00:45:12.300 --> 00:45:13.380
just haven't referenced it again.

1097
00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:15.719
It's the Har Avengers for the 70s, isn't it?

1098
00:45:15.780 --> 00:45:18.659
Because, you know, this is the mirror, mirror, episode.

1099
00:45:18.659 --> 00:45:21.719
Except except the baddies all shave off their beards.

1100
00:45:21.780 --> 00:45:24.420
Instead of having...

1101
00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:26.699
And we don't actually get the antidoctor.

1102
00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:28.019
You know how everyone wears white.

1103
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:31.079
It's the villains and those fabulous green glasses that Starman

1104
00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:31.440
wears.

1105
00:45:31.500 --> 00:45:34.019
We don't actually get the opposite doctor in all black with a

1106
00:45:34.019 --> 00:45:35.579
black goatee and black gloves to.

1107
00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:39.000
Ooh, maybe next, but I don't want to ruin it for everyone.

1108
00:45:39.059 --> 00:45:42.900
So there's 2 episodes in the power universe before penetration 0

1109
00:45:42.900 --> 00:45:43.980
and then 2 episodes.

1110
00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:45.659
So the parallel universe is...

1111
00:45:45.780 --> 00:45:49.500
So Brandon has said that it's because it allows the doctor to

1112
00:45:49.500 --> 00:45:49.679
lose.

1113
00:45:49.739 --> 00:45:52.800
And I think there's a lot to be said for that because those 2

1114
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:56.519
episodes after penetration 0 win the world's falling down around

1115
00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:57.300
them.

1116
00:45:57.300 --> 00:46:01.320
And there's that real fatal desperation about them and all of that

1117
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:01.800
sort of thing.

1118
00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:06.059
And you get that incredible flary film work, you know, where it

1119
00:46:06.059 --> 00:46:07.380
looks really hot and stuff.

1120
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:09.719
I think those are really, really good.

1121
00:46:09.780 --> 00:46:13.380
And I think the Cliffhanger to episode 6 is great, you know.

1122
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:16.679
And so I think that that is perhaps the most convincing reason for

1123
00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:16.920
it.

1124
00:46:16.980 --> 00:46:20.519
I think other reasons might be to allow the actors to camp it up

1125
00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:21.360
and play something different.

1126
00:46:21.420 --> 00:46:22.380
Do you know what I mean?

1127
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:23.820
Right.

1128
00:46:23.820 --> 00:46:26.820
The Mirror Universe episodes are that in Star Trek.

1129
00:46:26.820 --> 00:46:29.699
Rise of the Cyberman is very much that in...

1130
00:46:29.699 --> 00:46:31.739
Carry to put on a Tara King wig.

1131
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:32.099
Yeah.

1132
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:36.840
The weird thing is, though, section leader, Elizabeth Shaw, brigade

1133
00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:39.900
leader, Lethbridge Stewart, platoon under leader Benton.

1134
00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:44.579
They all play it really straight. and mean and nasty.

1135
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:47.699
It is camping a way because it's not what we're used to.

1136
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:51.659
But you don't doubt that these people could just mess you up.

1137
00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:54.119
So the real universe is the camp one.

1138
00:46:54.179 --> 00:46:56.400
No, no, the brigade leader is really camp.

1139
00:46:56.460 --> 00:47:00.059
He's really funny and he gets more and more panicked and crazy and

1140
00:47:00.059 --> 00:47:00.599
over the top.

1141
00:47:00.659 --> 00:47:02.340
Yeah, that's great.

1142
00:47:02.340 --> 00:47:04.920
And then the movement at the end, it gets beaten up by a

1143
00:47:04.920 --> 00:47:05.340
scientist.

1144
00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:10.199
And then Liz, Liz, you know, Liz, Elizabeth Shaw becomes a lot

1145
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:13.440
more like our Liz towards the end and she eventually gets to kill

1146
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:14.880
the brigadier and stuff like that.

1147
00:47:14.940 --> 00:47:16.559
All of that stuff's really fun.

1148
00:47:16.619 --> 00:47:18.239
That gives them something different to do.

1149
00:47:18.300 --> 00:47:22.380
You remember the famous some eye patch story that used to get told

1150
00:47:22.380 --> 00:47:23.099
at convention.

1151
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:24.179
Oh, I never heard that one.

1152
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:29.940
So the famous iPad story for those of you at home who have just

1153
00:47:29.940 --> 00:47:30.599
awoken.

1154
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:32.039
Are we going to do the iPad story?

1155
00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:33.599
Are you going to do the accent?

1156
00:47:33.719 --> 00:47:37.980
Those of you who have awoken from Silurian hibernation and haven't

1157
00:47:37.980 --> 00:47:40.679
heard anything that's gone on in a Doctor Who convention forever.

1158
00:47:40.739 --> 00:47:44.280
Nick Courtney wears an eye patch and has no fake moustache, which

1159
00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:47.519
is a little bit of a relief, actually, when he's in the parallel

1160
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:48.960
world in his 1st scene.

1161
00:47:49.019 --> 00:47:50.280
He doesn't have rounds.

1162
00:47:50.340 --> 00:47:51.599
He doesn't have lips like a slug.

1163
00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:53.280
We always wonder what the moustache was for.

1164
00:47:53.340 --> 00:47:53.579
Yeah.

1165
00:47:53.639 --> 00:47:57.780
So he swivels around in his chair for the very 1st time to reveal

1166
00:47:57.780 --> 00:48:00.599
he's got an eye patch and every all the other actors in the room

1167
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:01.800
are wearing eye patches.

1168
00:48:01.860 --> 00:48:03.780
Oh, my...

1169
00:48:03.780 --> 00:48:07.079
Nick doesn't pat an eyelid because he's an old trooper.

1170
00:48:07.139 --> 00:48:10.559
Sorry, I just lost a lung from apoplexy there. hilarious.

1171
00:48:10.619 --> 00:48:11.099
Yeah.

1172
00:48:11.099 --> 00:48:17.280
No, they are... in the power.

1173
00:48:17.340 --> 00:48:19.079
They were naked apart from me, I patches.

1174
00:48:19.139 --> 00:48:22.260
Yeah, that's not normally mentioned, but it is an integral part of

1175
00:48:22.260 --> 00:48:23.340
the anecdote.

1176
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:26.280
I've been a bit quiet because I've been looking something up.

1177
00:48:26.340 --> 00:48:27.119
Have you?

1178
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:34.260
And that is that Inferno... in the UK, Inferno, in the UK, the

1179
00:48:34.260 --> 00:48:40.260
closing episode... went out in the same week as Star Trek Mirror

1180
00:48:40.260 --> 00:48:42.300
Mirror, premiered on the BBC.

1181
00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:43.500
Oh, there you go.

1182
00:48:43.500 --> 00:48:44.579
How's he bouncy that?

1183
00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:45.780
So they were ahead again.

1184
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:47.280
Yeah, I mean a week.

1185
00:48:47.340 --> 00:48:49.559
Yeah, they were ahead again for British broadcast.

1186
00:48:49.619 --> 00:48:51.239
Yeah, but the episode was 3 years old.

1187
00:48:51.300 --> 00:48:54.840
Oh, doesn't mean to say they would have seen it because the aunts

1188
00:48:54.840 --> 00:48:56.099
of this as we've mentioned are a lot older.

1189
00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:56.940
Absolutely.

1190
00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:00.179
So yeah, but the other the other reason, and this is, Santa

1191
00:49:00.179 --> 00:49:04.320
forgets a bit cross with the with the parallel universe because he

1192
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:06.840
calls it the most egregious bit of padding and delaying tactics

1193
00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:12.000
ever, to interrupt a story and tell exactly the same story again

1194
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:14.400
and then go back to the original story.

1195
00:49:14.460 --> 00:49:17.400
And there are 2 objections here, and I think that they're both

1196
00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:17.940
really interesting.

1197
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:22.559
One is that you've got the opportunity for some kind of thematic

1198
00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:25.679
resonance with the doctors working with the military and then he

1199
00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:28.619
goes into a parallel universe where the military are even more

1200
00:49:28.619 --> 00:49:29.219
military.

1201
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:32.400
And so you could think that this could be a comment on the way the

1202
00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:33.780
doctor sees the brigadier.

1203
00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:35.699
Or the way the doctor sold out this year.

1204
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:37.320
Yeah, I'm finding troublesome watching them.

1205
00:49:37.380 --> 00:49:38.820
But we don't get any of it.

1206
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:41.039
That doesn't seem to go anywhere and it could have been really

1207
00:49:41.039 --> 00:49:41.400
interesting.

1208
00:49:41.460 --> 00:49:44.519
The other thing is that the doctor really should go to the

1209
00:49:44.519 --> 00:49:48.360
parallel universe to find the thing to save this universe.

1210
00:49:48.420 --> 00:49:53.340
Or there should be some reason why fascist parallel universe gets

1211
00:49:53.340 --> 00:49:55.860
destroyed, but our universe doesn't.

1212
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:59.219
And that doesn't seem to be, they are not very careful about that

1213
00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:02.280
a 6 hour difference though, isn't it, at the end of the episode?

1214
00:50:02.340 --> 00:50:03.659
Don't think so ahead.

1215
00:50:03.719 --> 00:50:06.300
The moment he arrives in the power of universe, he knows that it

1216
00:50:06.300 --> 00:50:08.519
will be destroyed at penetration zero.

1217
00:50:08.579 --> 00:50:10.860
He doesn't seem to know that in our universe.

1218
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:13.139
There's a sense in which it doesn't quite work.

1219
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:16.139
It doesn't do the story job that it should do, that for it to

1220
00:50:16.139 --> 00:50:16.619
really work.

1221
00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:20.639
There needs to be a reason why we survive, and it would be a great

1222
00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:23.639
idea of perjury rather than just baffing around and being absent

1223
00:50:23.639 --> 00:50:27.000
in the parallel universe for 4 episodes was actually able to bring

1224
00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:30.659
something back that saves us in the real world.

1225
00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:33.659
See, I couldn't disagree more.

1226
00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:35.579
I'm sorry, Nathan, I'm sorry, Philip Sander.

1227
00:50:35.699 --> 00:50:37.260
Is this unforgivable padding?

1228
00:50:37.320 --> 00:50:40.199
And I would reply, really, is a Christmas carol unforgivable

1229
00:50:40.199 --> 00:50:42.900
padding when Scrooge is shown his past, his present, his future.

1230
00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:44.400
He knows his past, he knows his present.

1231
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:45.300
Nice.

1232
00:50:45.300 --> 00:50:47.460
And really he knows what his future is going to bring.

1233
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:49.139
So that's what this is for the doctor.

1234
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:50.880
The doctor is trying to get away from Earth.

1235
00:50:50.940 --> 00:50:53.219
That's the doctor's sole motivation here.

1236
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:55.260
As you've already said, Nathan, he doesn't care about the

1237
00:50:55.260 --> 00:50:55.500
project.

1238
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:57.539
He's just trying to get his Titus operational.

1239
00:50:57.599 --> 00:50:59.639
If he got his Titus operational on left, the earth would be

1240
00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:00.059
destroyed.

1241
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:01.619
And that's what the doctor learns here.

1242
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:03.659
He's learned that, yes, the earth does need him.

1243
00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:06.480
And yes, not everything can be solved with military might.

1244
00:51:06.539 --> 00:51:07.380
That's what he learns.

1245
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:09.480
That's what he brings back and that's how he saves the world.

1246
00:51:09.539 --> 00:51:12.780
But I think that you're kind of agreeing in the sense that he

1247
00:51:12.780 --> 00:51:15.480
needs to learn something in the parallel universe for it not to

1248
00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:16.380
just be patting.

1249
00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:17.159
Do you know what I mean?

1250
00:51:17.219 --> 00:51:18.059
It needs that.

1251
00:51:18.119 --> 00:51:20.639
Yeah, that then justifies it and it's not padding.

1252
00:51:20.699 --> 00:51:21.059
Yeah.

1253
00:51:21.059 --> 00:51:24.119
Well, and there is even a sort of party attempt as well.

1254
00:51:24.179 --> 00:51:27.119
You know, the number 2 output point thing that he bambles on about

1255
00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:29.340
when he's unconscious, which is something that he's learned about

1256
00:51:29.340 --> 00:51:33.000
in the previous in the previous universe, sort of thing.

1257
00:51:33.059 --> 00:51:37.320
But I have to say that by now I am getting a bit tired of the

1258
00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:40.739
scientific establishments, and I'm getting a bit tired of her and

1259
00:51:40.739 --> 00:51:43.619
getting homesick for the TARDIS prop.

1260
00:51:43.739 --> 00:51:45.900
And really silly scientists.

1261
00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:49.019
I'm really glad, though, that it's someone called Slocum, although

1262
00:51:49.019 --> 00:51:52.679
it's Harry Slocum, who touches the green bubbling goo to start off

1263
00:51:52.679 --> 00:51:53.039
with.

1264
00:51:53.099 --> 00:51:54.840
He's called Mrs. to his mates.

1265
00:51:54.900 --> 00:51:57.239
But, you know, you're a scientist and you're doing something

1266
00:51:57.239 --> 00:52:00.539
stupid, but then again, we've got Ridley Scott doing exactly the

1267
00:52:00.539 --> 00:52:03.539
same stupid thing in Prometheus and still managing to break

1268
00:52:03.539 --> 00:52:06.360
budgets and blockbuster.

1269
00:52:06.420 --> 00:52:09.480
And was it the heroin in Prometheus Dr. Elizabeth Shaw?

1270
00:52:09.539 --> 00:52:10.500
Yes.

1271
00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:12.000
It was actually her last name.

1272
00:52:12.059 --> 00:52:13.860
Rumi Repace was Dr. Elizabeth Shaw.

1273
00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:17.940
That's why it was so offensive when she did that whole abortion

1274
00:52:17.940 --> 00:52:19.079
scene on the...

1275
00:52:19.079 --> 00:52:21.960
Remember that on the laser card abortion and then goes up and

1276
00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:23.579
carries a gun and runs her up.

1277
00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:25.500
I really hate that film.

1278
00:52:25.619 --> 00:52:27.300
I'm really glad I haven't seen it.

1279
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:30.300
She does major abdominal surgery on herself and then gets up and

1280
00:52:30.300 --> 00:52:31.619
wanders off carrying a gun.

1281
00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:34.619
Yeah, after having the thing aborted from her and it's just...

1282
00:52:34.619 --> 00:52:36.300
Yeah, that never happened to Al is a bit sure.

1283
00:52:36.420 --> 00:52:38.340
And isn't she amazing?

1284
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:40.559
Because that's the other thing that the doctor going to the other

1285
00:52:40.559 --> 00:52:41.400
universe does.

1286
00:52:41.460 --> 00:52:44.400
Liz carries the plot in the main universe.

1287
00:52:44.460 --> 00:52:44.699
Yeah.

1288
00:52:44.699 --> 00:52:47.699
And a lot of it is her sort of saying the doctor's not here, but

1289
00:52:47.699 --> 00:52:51.119
then she does things like she inspires the palace revolution

1290
00:52:51.119 --> 00:52:52.199
against Stalman.

1291
00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:55.559
It's amazing how little of our universe is in those middle forest

1292
00:52:55.679 --> 00:52:55.980
episodes.

1293
00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:57.659
It tends to be one scene, an episode.

1294
00:52:57.719 --> 00:52:59.579
The closing credits.

1295
00:52:59.639 --> 00:53:02.159
Credit people as like brigade leader, Led Brit Stewart.

1296
00:53:02.219 --> 00:53:05.519
Yeah, because I believe it's episode 5 that the brigadier and Liz

1297
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:09.539
don't appear, but the brigade leader and section leader shore do

1298
00:53:09.539 --> 00:53:09.780
it.

1299
00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:11.820
And Petra is some...

1300
00:53:11.820 --> 00:53:13.079
Yeah, it's...

1301
00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:14.400
Dougie Canfield's wife.

1302
00:53:14.460 --> 00:53:15.659
And in fact, this is really interesting.

1303
00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:18.059
It feels like a Ducky Canfield story, doesn't it?

1304
00:53:18.059 --> 00:53:22.199
Well, except that what happens is that Canfield stuff is a heart

1305
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:23.760
attack during studio recording.

1306
00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:27.780
Yeah, he got all the pre-filming done and the studios for F1 and

1307
00:53:27.780 --> 00:53:27.900
2.

1308
00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:31.260
Yeah, and then and then Barry Letts takes over it.

1309
00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:34.500
He's working for the camera script that Canfield. prepared

1310
00:53:34.500 --> 00:53:36.780
initially, but then just has to go on his own.

1311
00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:39.780
So all of that film stuff is can filled and it's just a reason.

1312
00:53:39.780 --> 00:53:42.059
Why, so cool when they're all tumbling down the stairs on the oil

1313
00:53:42.059 --> 00:53:42.840
refinery thing.

1314
00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:44.519
Yeah, yeah.

1315
00:53:44.579 --> 00:53:47.820
All of that action stuff is really fantastically effective that

1316
00:53:47.820 --> 00:53:48.719
Canfield does.

1317
00:53:48.780 --> 00:53:53.159
But I just think the amazing thing is how Sheila Dunn just

1318
00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:54.840
soldiers on tremendously.

1319
00:53:54.900 --> 00:53:58.019
Do you feel as if she's almost a replacement for Lou Shaw in

1320
00:53:58.019 --> 00:53:58.800
apopheosis?

1321
00:53:58.860 --> 00:54:01.079
She plays pretty much the same kind of character.

1322
00:54:01.139 --> 00:54:04.920
Yeah, no, no, I mean, she soldiers on when her husband's just had

1323
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:06.599
a major heart attack and being part of it.

1324
00:54:06.659 --> 00:54:07.260
Oh, yes, of course.

1325
00:54:07.260 --> 00:54:09.599
In hospital and she has to continue working over the next few

1326
00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:09.840
weeks.

1327
00:54:09.900 --> 00:54:12.300
Maybe that's why they're saying...

1328
00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:15.420
She's terrific in the parallel world. but she's really great.

1329
00:54:15.539 --> 00:54:18.239
I really like she and Greg Sutton.

1330
00:54:18.300 --> 00:54:20.280
I think it's the 1st romance for me.

1331
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:22.079
There aren't many of them in Doctor Who anyway. actually is

1332
00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:22.619
convincing.

1333
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:25.079
He's such a caveman in episode one.

1334
00:54:25.139 --> 00:54:27.000
I know, but he's got rid of the fleas by now.

1335
00:54:27.059 --> 00:54:31.619
We should mention he's also Zaro...

1336
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:34.320
Zar in unearthly child way back in the beginning.

1337
00:54:34.380 --> 00:54:36.480
He's got very antiquated sexual politics.

1338
00:54:36.480 --> 00:54:38.039
Just as much.

1339
00:54:38.039 --> 00:54:39.480
And just gets slapped down.

1340
00:54:39.539 --> 00:54:40.079
Yeah, yeah.

1341
00:54:40.139 --> 00:54:41.159
I mean, the wonderful thing.

1342
00:54:41.159 --> 00:54:42.059
We had a beard.

1343
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:43.679
We'd all have posters on them in our walls.

1344
00:54:44.219 --> 00:54:49.139
The wonderful thing about the characters in this is very often, and

1345
00:54:49.139 --> 00:54:52.380
science fiction has done lots of evil twin films before.

1346
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:58.619
The evil twin is literally some split off from the original.

1347
00:54:58.679 --> 00:55:02.880
But these evil twins, if you want to call them that. are actually

1348
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:04.440
individuals in their own right.

1349
00:55:04.500 --> 00:55:07.739
Exactly the same person, just grown up under different.

1350
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:09.059
It's nature or nurture in this case.

1351
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:13.139
What happens to a good person when they're brought up.

1352
00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:13.920
Yeah, yeah.

1353
00:55:13.980 --> 00:55:17.579
And yeah, you get fascinating insights to character, such as it's

1354
00:55:17.579 --> 00:55:22.320
sectionally Elizabeth Shaw, who can overcome her training and

1355
00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:27.300
become a decent human being, whereas the brigade leader just goes

1356
00:55:27.300 --> 00:55:27.900
to pieces.

1357
00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:31.739
You've got Greg and Petra are essentially the same characters in

1358
00:55:31.739 --> 00:55:32.460
both universes.

1359
00:55:32.519 --> 00:55:34.980
They're just a little bit more uptight because of their

1360
00:55:34.980 --> 00:55:37.139
surroundings, but as soon as things start going to hell in either

1361
00:55:37.139 --> 00:55:39.179
universe, they end up in each other's arms.

1362
00:55:39.239 --> 00:55:40.559
And what is great?

1363
00:55:40.860 --> 00:55:41.579
What is really great?

1364
00:55:41.639 --> 00:55:45.300
We've spoken about how Petro just sort of slaps Greg down the 1st

1365
00:55:45.300 --> 00:55:49.019
time he tries something and he sort of walks away with a bruised

1366
00:55:49.019 --> 00:55:49.559
ego.

1367
00:55:49.619 --> 00:55:55.980
When eventually, Yeah, it's not even a verbal thing of saying I

1368
00:55:55.980 --> 00:55:56.820
have feelings for you.

1369
00:55:56.880 --> 00:56:01.619
It's very much uh, it's, it's in the action that they perform with

1370
00:56:01.619 --> 00:56:04.500
each other. you know, sort of throwing your arms around him and

1371
00:56:04.500 --> 00:56:06.659
saying, I'm frightened, that sort of thing.

1372
00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:10.199
It doesn't weaken the intelligence of her character, which is

1373
00:56:10.199 --> 00:56:13.380
something you would so often see in 50s and 60s sci-fi films, you

1374
00:56:13.380 --> 00:56:16.559
know, the heroine would be great and resourceful until she falls

1375
00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:17.639
in love and then she's a mess.

1376
00:56:17.699 --> 00:56:23.579
You know, when Ultimate Universe, Petra, actually acknowledges her

1377
00:56:23.579 --> 00:56:25.980
feelings for Greg, it gives her a new window strength. because

1378
00:56:25.980 --> 00:56:28.199
when she says I'm frightened, you know, she's pretty much defeated

1379
00:56:28.199 --> 00:56:29.760
her entire world's fallen apart.

1380
00:56:29.940 --> 00:56:35.340
She and Greg share a hug and suddenly she is willing to risk

1381
00:56:35.340 --> 00:56:37.500
everything to get the reactor back on.

1382
00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:40.139
You know, she runs back out into a world which is literally

1383
00:56:40.139 --> 00:56:41.039
falling apart.

1384
00:56:41.099 --> 00:56:43.139
You know, there's a lava appearing everywhere just to get the

1385
00:56:43.139 --> 00:56:45.000
reactor back on to save someone else.

1386
00:56:45.059 --> 00:56:49.800
And I think that's where their love story is so powerful because

1387
00:56:49.800 --> 00:56:51.300
it's an inspiration for both of them.

1388
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:54.480
And because the female character is the stronger character of the

1389
00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:54.719
two.

1390
00:56:54.780 --> 00:56:56.159
I love how she does that.

1391
00:56:56.219 --> 00:56:58.739
And I love how we just discover it's happened.

1392
00:56:58.800 --> 00:56:59.460
We don't see it.

1393
00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:01.139
But it's like, where's Petra?

1394
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:04.920
Oh, she's gone off to restart the nuclear reactor?

1395
00:57:04.980 --> 00:57:07.380
She's really, really tremendous in those scenes.

1396
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:12.059
And I think even if the parallel universe stuff is kind of padding

1397
00:57:12.059 --> 00:57:15.420
the fact that the stakes are high and the fact that you get such

1398
00:57:15.420 --> 00:57:18.960
fun episodes, like episodes 5 and 6 out of it, I think, make it

1399
00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:19.320
worth it.

1400
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:21.480
What do you think about the doctor in this one?

1401
00:57:21.539 --> 00:57:23.820
Because you know it's the 1st one written by Doc Horton?

1402
00:57:23.880 --> 00:57:27.659
The 1st one. actually written for Pertwee, rather than some heart

1403
00:57:27.659 --> 00:57:31.500
and all trout and hybrid that they were all writing for since he's

1404
00:57:31.500 --> 00:57:33.659
since, you know, it's gone out and they've seen him work.

1405
00:57:33.719 --> 00:57:37.559
So I want to say, hey, can we just throw in the 1st time we get to

1406
00:57:37.559 --> 00:57:37.860
hear that?

1407
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:40.139
I want to slap him right from the very 1st scene.

1408
00:57:40.199 --> 00:57:43.980
And the reason is that he's driving along in the car singing La

1409
00:57:43.980 --> 00:57:47.579
Donne Morbile, which means women are unreliable.

1410
00:57:47.639 --> 00:57:51.539
Women are immobile. mobile. mobile.

1411
00:57:52.380 --> 00:57:54.719
But he doesn't know any of the words.

1412
00:57:54.780 --> 00:58:02.460
So he's just going, la, la, la, and he's just appalling.

1413
00:58:02.519 --> 00:58:03.719
I hate him instantly.

1414
00:58:03.780 --> 00:58:05.639
He loves the royal family.

1415
00:58:05.699 --> 00:58:06.539
Do you know what I mean?

1416
00:58:06.599 --> 00:58:08.400
Oh, charming, charming family.

1417
00:58:08.460 --> 00:58:09.900
I'm not sure if he murdered him.

1418
00:58:09.960 --> 00:58:13.079
I'm not sure if he loves them more that he didn't want to see them

1419
00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:15.000
gummed down by a firing squad.

1420
00:58:15.059 --> 00:58:15.840
Yeah, I know.

1421
00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:19.559
There's a bit of a, there's a bit of a middle ground in there.

1422
00:58:19.619 --> 00:58:21.480
No, but he's so pompous about it.

1423
00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:24.179
And then he starts to, you know, anecdotalize.

1424
00:58:24.239 --> 00:58:27.239
He sort of pulls that out of chair and says, you know, I knew her

1425
00:58:27.239 --> 00:58:30.239
great, great, great grandfather in Paris one time. just really go

1426
00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:31.559
away, you know.

1427
00:58:31.619 --> 00:58:35.940
So he does get X. Yes, but it's an annoying character.

1428
00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:42.480
He does get extra points for the way he puts Stalman down and the

1429
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:44.099
big grin that he gives at the end of it.

1430
00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:44.820
That's kind good.

1431
00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:46.559
Well, Stalin, Stalin, Stalin.

1432
00:58:46.619 --> 00:58:50.460
I mean, Stalman is actually playing Adolf von Science bastard

1433
00:58:50.460 --> 00:58:51.179
isn't he in this one?

1434
00:58:51.239 --> 00:58:53.159
Oh, can we talk about Stalin?

1435
00:58:53.159 --> 00:58:54.000
Stalin?

1436
00:58:54.059 --> 00:58:55.139
Oh, yeah.

1437
00:58:55.139 --> 00:58:56.460
He's still with us.

1438
00:58:56.519 --> 00:58:58.500
So Ola Pooley.

1439
00:58:58.500 --> 00:59:03.300
Yeah, exactly. 54 when this when this show is shot.

1440
00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:08.400
He's now approaching his 101st birthday and he's still with us.

1441
00:59:08.460 --> 00:59:10.260
Is he in, oh, just in California?

1442
00:59:10.320 --> 00:59:15.059
I think he's moved to California His wife, his former wife

1443
00:59:15.059 --> 00:59:19.739
Gabrielle Beaumont, used to direct Star Trek episodes and he

1444
00:59:19.739 --> 00:59:22.920
himself appeared in a Star Trek Voyager episode called Blink of an

1445
00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:23.400
Eye.

1446
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:24.960
Oh, that was a bloody good one.

1447
00:59:25.019 --> 00:59:28.139
Yeah, it really is a good one. and you don't see that much in

1448
00:59:28.139 --> 00:59:29.340
Voyager a bloody good episode.

1449
00:59:29.460 --> 00:59:30.480
But there are one or two.

1450
00:59:30.539 --> 00:59:31.920
And he's very visibly him.

1451
00:59:31.980 --> 00:59:35.519
So he, I think he's the oldest living person to have been in

1452
00:59:35.519 --> 00:59:36.179
Doctor Who.

1453
00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:42.300
I think someone who was in Marco Polo who passed away last year.

1454
00:59:42.360 --> 00:59:44.039
Yeah, she died last year and she was 100.

1455
00:59:44.280 --> 00:59:46.860
So I think Olaf is holding the record.

1456
00:59:46.920 --> 00:59:50.460
So his liver can't have been quite as bad as that per twee

1457
00:59:50.460 --> 00:59:51.300
suggests it was.

1458
00:59:51.420 --> 00:59:55.860
We do get because this is the 1st group written for per week, we

1459
00:59:55.860 --> 00:59:58.139
get action per week for the 1st time.

1460
00:59:58.199 --> 01:00:00.000
You know, he's got his Venusian, Akido.

1461
01:00:00.059 --> 01:00:04.440
He's got the car chase and as the stuntmen say, we did all the

1462
01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:08.039
driving, pert we threw Alan Chunks over his shoulder.

1463
01:00:08.099 --> 01:00:11.280
Pert we left a gash in a stuntman's leg, that sort of thing.

1464
01:00:11.340 --> 01:00:13.440
See, it's a psychopath, is he?

1465
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:16.019
As Terence Dix points out.

1466
01:00:16.079 --> 01:00:18.000
It's Aikido.

1467
01:00:18.059 --> 01:00:21.780
His moves are all like kido, and Aikido is a defensive martial art

1468
01:00:21.780 --> 01:00:24.000
where you use your opponent's strength against them.

1469
01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:27.239
And that is a very doctor-ish thing.

1470
01:00:27.300 --> 01:00:29.400
If you're going to have a doctor with a hand-to-hand form of

1471
01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:32.099
combat, it should be something like Akido or judo, which are more

1472
01:00:32.099 --> 01:00:32.460
defensive.

1473
01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:35.820
I would have liked to see Sylvester McCoy do a bit of my keto

1474
01:00:35.820 --> 01:00:36.659
during his time.

1475
01:00:36.719 --> 01:00:37.679
With the umbrella, yeah.

1476
01:00:37.860 --> 01:00:42.420
Well, very much later on, the ultimate adventure, which started as

1477
01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:44.219
a stage player with John Pertby.

1478
01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:48.239
Colin Baker then took over the role because John Pertley was too

1479
01:00:48.239 --> 01:00:49.199
ill to continue.

1480
01:00:49.260 --> 01:00:51.300
He had impacted discs in his back, I believe.

1481
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:52.739
Which was always actually a problem.

1482
01:00:52.860 --> 01:00:54.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1483
01:00:54.840 --> 01:00:58.019
But there was a scene with a sword fight, which, of course, is

1484
01:00:58.019 --> 01:01:00.360
very perfect, to get into a sword fight, maybe.

1485
01:01:00.420 --> 01:01:03.599
And when Colin Baker came in, he said, well, the thing is, I don't

1486
01:01:03.599 --> 01:01:05.099
think my doctor would do a sword fight.

1487
01:01:05.159 --> 01:01:06.900
You know, he might...

1488
01:01:07.019 --> 01:01:09.119
Well, he's just like, my, my, that's cruel.

1489
01:01:09.300 --> 01:01:14.099
My doctor, my doctor's not the dashing knight in shining armour

1490
01:01:14.099 --> 01:01:14.820
the doctor.

1491
01:01:14.880 --> 01:01:16.860
Yeah, he could have allowed himself to stretch a bit.

1492
01:01:16.920 --> 01:01:19.199
We didn't see that much of his doctor on screen after all.

1493
01:01:19.260 --> 01:01:23.280
The thing is, what his doctor would do was be cancelled after 2

1494
01:01:23.280 --> 01:01:23.460
years.

1495
01:01:23.579 --> 01:01:27.300
How Colin Baker did the fight scene was.

1496
01:01:27.360 --> 01:01:31.019
He started having a conversation with someone with his back to the

1497
01:01:31.019 --> 01:01:34.559
fight and was gesticulating with the sword in his hand and just so

1498
01:01:34.559 --> 01:01:37.559
happened to parry all the blows and then disarm the guy.

1499
01:01:37.679 --> 01:01:41.099
So it just goes to...

1500
01:01:41.099 --> 01:01:42.179
It's terrible.

1501
01:01:42.840 --> 01:01:45.960
If only we'd been there. to see it.

1502
01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:50.400
The thing is, I think this goes to show just how unique a doctor

1503
01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:54.360
John Pertwee was and really that no other doctor has that hand-to

1504
01:01:53.820 --> 01:01:57.480
hand form of combat because it suits his doctor so much because he

1505
01:01:57.480 --> 01:01:58.800
is this flamboyant figure.

1506
01:01:58.860 --> 01:02:02.940
So he's going to have a fighting style, which is quite flamboyant

1507
01:02:02.940 --> 01:02:06.300
but in the end is more about, okay, if you're going to use

1508
01:02:06.300 --> 01:02:07.920
violence, I'm going to use violence against you.

1509
01:02:07.980 --> 01:02:10.139
But is it slightly crap violence?

1510
01:02:10.199 --> 01:02:13.860
It's like Roger Moore's judo chop, you know, like Roger, clearly

1511
01:02:13.860 --> 01:02:15.239
as Bond.

1512
01:02:15.300 --> 01:02:18.420
Roger didn't want to spend a lot of time practising fight

1513
01:02:18.420 --> 01:02:19.559
sequences and stuff.

1514
01:02:19.619 --> 01:02:21.900
And so he also judo chopped people.

1515
01:02:22.019 --> 01:02:24.780
He also felt that bombs shouldn't be excessively violent.

1516
01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:27.059
There's a reason that Roger Moore is the worst James Bond.

1517
01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:29.400
No, that's an absolute I don't know that he is.

1518
01:02:29.519 --> 01:02:31.199
No, no, he's just perfect for his time.

1519
01:02:31.260 --> 01:02:32.699
I've heard we have bonds.

1520
01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:35.760
Well, I was actually just saying to say, is this the 1st doctor

1521
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:37.019
okay, we've only got 3 so far?

1522
01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:40.079
Is this the 1st doctor who really just sits to be so far in this

1523
01:02:40.079 --> 01:02:43.619
season kind of troublingly undocterish?

1524
01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:45.179
He doesn't feel like the doctor anymore?

1525
01:02:45.239 --> 01:02:46.320
Certainly like this story?

1526
01:02:46.380 --> 01:02:47.400
someone completely different.

1527
01:02:47.460 --> 01:02:48.840
Trout wouldn't beat people up.

1528
01:02:48.900 --> 01:02:49.619
Do you know what I mean?

1529
01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:51.960
I don't think he'd be ostentatious about anything.

1530
01:02:52.019 --> 01:02:54.960
And even though Billy was, you know, it could be...

1531
01:02:55.019 --> 01:02:55.739
Sorry, that was fun.

1532
01:02:55.800 --> 01:02:57.480
Trapon did gram a lawyer's head into a desk.

1533
01:02:57.539 --> 01:03:02.099
But sorry, you were saying, but that was that was... 15 hours

1534
01:03:02.099 --> 01:03:02.639
afterwards.

1535
01:03:02.699 --> 01:03:04.739
The lawyer could have grown a new head.

1536
01:03:04.800 --> 01:03:10.320
But we did see Billy being grandiose, but we never kind of saw him

1537
01:03:10.320 --> 01:03:15.539
contextually as, as, I think so much as taking the horns of the

1538
01:03:15.539 --> 01:03:18.719
plot and actually riding that bull with his cape streaming in the

1539
01:03:18.719 --> 01:03:19.079
background.

1540
01:03:19.139 --> 01:03:22.440
Billy was always on the defensive because he knew he had very few

1541
01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:25.679
defences, a school teacher and a granddaughter and some bloke came

1542
01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:28.079
out of hanging about in a suit, had to get out of there as quickly

1543
01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:28.619
as possible.

1544
01:03:28.679 --> 01:03:34.320
Partly, okay, maybe by force of the plot is here and making the

1545
01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:34.860
best of it.

1546
01:03:34.920 --> 01:03:37.860
But he also seems to be saying, I'm not only going to be making

1547
01:03:37.860 --> 01:03:38.400
the best of it.

1548
01:03:38.460 --> 01:03:40.860
I'll be taking command of the whole thing.

1549
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:43.320
And do you know, one of the things that I love about Trouton is

1550
01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:46.559
that he works really well when he's when he's slightly panicked.

1551
01:03:46.619 --> 01:03:47.579
Do you know what I mean?

1552
01:03:47.639 --> 01:03:50.579
And he often does that, the sort of breathing thing that he does

1553
01:03:50.579 --> 01:03:53.880
and the sort of that, the way that his voice goes when he's

1554
01:03:53.880 --> 01:03:54.659
panicked and stuff.

1555
01:03:54.719 --> 01:03:56.940
Like us in this podcast. like that.

1556
01:03:57.000 --> 01:03:58.260
And he's lovely.

1557
01:03:58.320 --> 01:04:01.500
He's really likeable because, you know, he doesn't seem like he's

1558
01:04:01.500 --> 01:04:02.639
got everything under control.

1559
01:04:02.699 --> 01:04:06.960
Whereas, and in photos of a sort of notable exception, per tweet

1560
01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:09.659
he never seems like he's in any particular danger.

1561
01:04:09.719 --> 01:04:13.079
He always just sort of strides in very calmly and commandingly.

1562
01:04:13.199 --> 01:04:16.019
And, you know, like for people who like Pertu, I can understand

1563
01:04:16.019 --> 01:04:17.760
how they would like that about his character.

1564
01:04:17.820 --> 01:04:18.480
Do you know what I mean?

1565
01:04:18.539 --> 01:04:20.820
I think that is an appealing kind of part of the character

1566
01:04:20.880 --> 01:04:22.440
certainly a change.

1567
01:04:22.500 --> 01:04:26.639
But it's a bit less interesting to watch, I think.

1568
01:04:26.699 --> 01:04:30.900
See, I'd agree that he's been like that for the 1st 3 stories of

1569
01:04:30.900 --> 01:04:33.300
this season. when General Carrington puts a gun in his face.

1570
01:04:33.360 --> 01:04:35.159
He doesn't panic at all.

1571
01:04:35.219 --> 01:04:37.440
But in this story, in the alternate universe.

1572
01:04:37.500 --> 01:04:39.300
He does become very panic in places.

1573
01:04:39.360 --> 01:04:44.340
And it's taken us 4 stories, but yeah, I think John Pertley was

1574
01:04:44.340 --> 01:04:46.679
putting a lot of thought into the character and sort of peeling

1575
01:04:46.679 --> 01:04:49.380
the layers back as the aforementioned Colin Baker intended to do.

1576
01:04:49.440 --> 01:04:52.679
But we rather wisely chose to peel all the layers back in the 1st

1577
01:04:52.679 --> 01:04:54.780
season rub than assume he was going to get that yet.

1578
01:04:54.840 --> 01:04:58.139
Yeah, so those scenes where he's panicked screaming.

1579
01:04:58.199 --> 01:04:58.800
No, that's enough.

1580
01:04:58.860 --> 01:05:01.199
Don't use any more orthotic thing, which that's the sound of this

1581
01:05:01.199 --> 01:05:02.820
planet screaming out its rage.

1582
01:05:02.880 --> 01:05:06.420
It's so much more effective than he has been so calm and

1583
01:05:06.420 --> 01:05:09.000
commanding up until now, but there's nothing he can do at this

1584
01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:09.300
point.

1585
01:05:09.360 --> 01:05:11.400
And as we'll find out later in his tenure.

1586
01:05:11.460 --> 01:05:14.099
His experiences here really did affect him in staying with him.

1587
01:05:14.159 --> 01:05:14.880
Yeah.

1588
01:05:14.940 --> 01:05:17.940
Even though I say this is my favourite story, there is one thing

1589
01:05:17.940 --> 01:05:20.579
and I'd like to throw it open to you guys because I'm undecided.

1590
01:05:20.760 --> 01:05:26.039
Is Stalman just Dr. Lawrence again from the Silurians?

1591
01:05:26.699 --> 01:05:31.440
He's a bit less panicked than Dr. Lawrence, but he is just one in

1592
01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:35.400
a long line of intransition base commanders, but he's pretty

1593
01:05:35.400 --> 01:05:38.519
appealingly played, I think, and we do see 2 versions of him.

1594
01:05:38.579 --> 01:05:39.179
I like him.

1595
01:05:39.239 --> 01:05:40.199
Do you know what I mean?

1596
01:05:40.260 --> 01:05:43.380
And I probably shouldn't at this point, just given all of the

1597
01:05:43.380 --> 01:05:46.920
crummy base commanders that we've had to sit through over the past

1598
01:05:46.920 --> 01:05:47.760
3 years.

1599
01:05:47.820 --> 01:05:49.739
But I think it's pretty good.

1600
01:05:49.800 --> 01:05:51.840
I really like Stalman.

1601
01:05:51.900 --> 01:05:52.860
I want to call him Carmen.

1602
01:05:52.920 --> 01:05:53.400
I don't know.

1603
01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:55.260
I want to call him want to call him a lot of other names.

1604
01:05:55.500 --> 01:06:00.360
I think he's probably the weakest because it's just so jarring

1605
01:06:00.360 --> 01:06:01.800
that his performance doesn't fit in.

1606
01:06:01.860 --> 01:06:04.860
But I think he's also the most realistic because of that.

1607
01:06:04.920 --> 01:06:08.340
He's kind of dodtery and not quite on the beat with the rest of

1608
01:06:08.340 --> 01:06:11.400
the cast and he's sort of out of sync in the accent.

1609
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:13.440
You're doing that because it doesn't always really hold.

1610
01:06:13.500 --> 01:06:15.480
Therefore, he's the most realistic.

1611
01:06:15.539 --> 01:06:17.940
But real life is more like that.

1612
01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:20.039
Yeah, I actually find him very convincing.

1613
01:06:20.099 --> 01:06:23.820
And when I 1st saw this story, that was, again, on video, came out

1614
01:06:23.820 --> 01:06:24.480
in the 90s.

1615
01:06:24.539 --> 01:06:25.500
I thought it was spectacular.

1616
01:06:25.559 --> 01:06:27.300
Really surprising.

1617
01:06:27.360 --> 01:06:28.380
I like the duality.

1618
01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:32.280
It doesn't, okay, it's padding, but it does feel like you're

1619
01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:33.659
getting an extra story.

1620
01:06:33.719 --> 01:06:37.559
You know, we asked the question, I think, last week about 7 part

1621
01:06:37.559 --> 01:06:38.099
stories.

1622
01:06:38.159 --> 01:06:41.400
And I have to say that one of the things that I like about this

1623
01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:45.239
and always have, was this is perhaps the story in this season that

1624
01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:51.059
I've seen the most often is the way it does give you the chance to

1625
01:06:51.059 --> 01:06:53.099
get to know a bunch of characters.

1626
01:06:53.159 --> 01:06:56.280
And I don't think they're astoundingly well characterised or

1627
01:06:56.280 --> 01:07:00.420
anything like that, but we get to spend 3 hours with them, you

1628
01:07:00.420 --> 01:07:03.599
know, you're kind of, it's sweet when Greg and Petra go off

1629
01:07:03.599 --> 01:07:06.300
together because you know them sort of thing.

1630
01:07:06.360 --> 01:07:10.139
And I think those stories do at least allow us to do that.

1631
01:07:10.199 --> 01:07:13.559
And I'm not one of those people who thinks, oh, you know, I think

1632
01:07:13.559 --> 01:07:16.440
that the new series should be full of 4 part stories because

1633
01:07:16.440 --> 01:07:19.019
there's nothing more interesting than lots of people standing

1634
01:07:19.019 --> 01:07:22.019
around talking cheaply in corridors for long periods of time.

1635
01:07:22.079 --> 01:07:24.719
A close-up of Peter Capelli is shocked.

1636
01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:26.699
A slightly bemused face every 25 minutes.

1637
01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:31.440
Yeah, you know, like I'm glad that we're now watching a program

1638
01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:33.599
where you get a full story every week.

1639
01:07:33.659 --> 01:07:36.780
I don't think there's any way it could survive if you didn't do

1640
01:07:36.780 --> 01:07:37.019
that.

1641
01:07:37.079 --> 01:07:43.739
But there is something quite nice about the leisure of a 7 parter

1642
01:07:43.739 --> 01:07:47.699
and certainly all of them try and do something a bit different.

1643
01:07:47.760 --> 01:07:50.820
It's not just fury from the deep or, you know, it's such as one

1644
01:07:50.820 --> 01:07:51.360
setting.

1645
01:07:51.420 --> 01:07:54.059
You know, we're not just confined to a base.

1646
01:07:54.119 --> 01:07:55.920
Something different happens each time.

1647
01:07:56.280 --> 01:08:01.260
We also get a likeable civil servant in this story in the form of

1648
01:08:01.260 --> 01:08:05.820
Christopher Benjamin playing the ultimate enemy of the cybermen

1649
01:08:05.820 --> 01:08:06.539
Sir Keith Gold.

1650
01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:08.340
And a Jew.

1651
01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:09.179
Is he?

1652
01:08:09.179 --> 01:08:13.619
playing it as a Jew and gold is a Jewish... in England.

1653
01:08:13.679 --> 01:08:15.659
And it's a nicely, it's a nicely done thing.

1654
01:08:15.719 --> 01:08:17.520
Is he a Jewish Christopher Benjamin?

1655
01:08:17.579 --> 01:08:18.840
I'm not sure who the character is.

1656
01:08:18.899 --> 01:08:19.739
Yeah, characters.

1657
01:08:19.800 --> 01:08:22.260
So he comes back in the new series to be married to Felicity

1658
01:08:22.260 --> 01:08:22.619
Kendall.

1659
01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:25.859
The wasp, which is wonderful.

1660
01:08:25.920 --> 01:08:27.000
He's hilarious in it.

1661
01:08:27.060 --> 01:08:31.020
And of course, he's perhaps most famous in Doctor Who circles for

1662
01:08:31.020 --> 01:08:32.039
playing...

1663
01:08:32.039 --> 01:08:33.359
Henry Gordon Jago.

1664
01:08:33.420 --> 01:08:34.560
And he still is.

1665
01:08:35.640 --> 01:08:39.180
Big finish, I believe they're up to series 10 at that.

1666
01:08:39.239 --> 01:08:40.140
Shut up.

1667
01:08:40.199 --> 01:08:41.100
How good is that?

1668
01:08:41.760 --> 01:08:44.579
I've heard the 1st series, I really like it.

1669
01:08:44.640 --> 01:08:45.539
I recommend, yeah.

1670
01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:48.720
You know, with all with all these supporting characters.

1671
01:08:48.779 --> 01:08:52.140
So, you know, you've got Greg Sutton, Petra Williams, Professor

1672
01:08:52.140 --> 01:08:55.439
Stalman, Benton is given far more of a character in this

1673
01:08:55.439 --> 01:09:00.119
Christopher Benjamin, for how he's held in fan esteem now because

1674
01:09:00.119 --> 01:09:04.920
of Jago. essentially quite a small part, sir Keith, because sir

1675
01:09:04.920 --> 01:09:07.560
Keith is quite big in the 1st couple of episodes and then he's in

1676
01:09:07.560 --> 01:09:08.699
a road accident and we don't know.

1677
01:09:08.760 --> 01:09:10.979
He's dead in the parallel university.

1678
01:09:11.159 --> 01:09:13.260
We don't know if he's dead in this universe, and then he just

1679
01:09:13.260 --> 01:09:15.060
turns up again in episode 6 or seven.

1680
01:09:15.180 --> 01:09:16.380
With his ominously.

1681
01:09:16.439 --> 01:09:18.659
I mean, with his arm and it's like, yeah, oh, yes, I've been in a

1682
01:09:18.659 --> 01:09:20.699
horrible car accident that's kept me out half the story.

1683
01:09:20.760 --> 01:09:22.680
I've just sprained my elbow, that kind of thing.

1684
01:09:22.739 --> 01:09:28.560
But he does give the part such presence and such believability.

1685
01:09:28.619 --> 01:09:33.479
And what's nice after Jeffrey Palmer is Masters, whose only

1686
01:09:33.479 --> 01:09:38.760
interest really is the image of the project and his own image.

1687
01:09:38.819 --> 01:09:42.899
So Keith Gold actually does want the project to succeed.

1688
01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:45.659
He just wants it to succeed safely.

1689
01:09:45.720 --> 01:09:49.979
So, I think he may be unique in the per era of being a civil

1690
01:09:49.979 --> 01:09:52.199
servant who is not self-serving.

1691
01:09:52.260 --> 01:09:54.539
He's very warm and very likeable.

1692
01:09:54.600 --> 01:09:55.739
I mean, he really is.

1693
01:09:55.800 --> 01:09:56.880
He's a terrific character.

1694
01:09:56.939 --> 01:09:59.399
I think that's what makes this story work.

1695
01:09:59.460 --> 01:10:04.260
It's the ensemble cast and the characters interplay between it

1696
01:10:04.260 --> 01:10:04.920
from it, yeah.

1697
01:10:04.979 --> 01:10:08.880
And just before we move on to the Jenny Laird award and pick of

1698
01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:09.239
the week.

1699
01:10:09.300 --> 01:10:14.340
This story, I believe, is possibly the 1st one entirely

1700
01:10:14.340 --> 01:10:17.159
commissioned by Barry Letts and Terence Dix.

1701
01:10:17.220 --> 01:10:20.579
Derek Sherwin has well and truly moved on at this point and it

1702
01:10:20.579 --> 01:10:24.060
picks up on something that Barry Letts is very interested in.

1703
01:10:24.119 --> 01:10:26.279
This is a story about the earth fighting back.

1704
01:10:26.340 --> 01:10:30.840
Something is happening and we never find out the nature of the gas

1705
01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:33.840
or the ooze or what's causing the primords.

1706
01:10:33.899 --> 01:10:37.739
It is just this, as the name would suggest, is primal force from

1707
01:10:37.739 --> 01:10:38.279
the earth.

1708
01:10:38.340 --> 01:10:40.439
The earth doesn't want us dinging.

1709
01:10:40.500 --> 01:10:43.500
Yeah, there's that thing about Krakato, which isn't followed up

1710
01:10:43.500 --> 01:10:43.800
either.

1711
01:10:43.859 --> 01:10:44.520
Do you know what I mean?

1712
01:10:44.579 --> 01:10:45.960
It is kept inexplicable.

1713
01:10:46.020 --> 01:10:48.180
You know, the effect of the use is a bit stupid.

1714
01:10:48.239 --> 01:10:49.140
Do you know what I mean?

1715
01:10:49.199 --> 01:10:53.100
Like it inspires you to smash up the machines or, you know, kind

1716
01:10:53.100 --> 01:10:56.880
of, uh, I don't know, it just makes you behave very oddly.

1717
01:10:56.939 --> 01:11:02.520
Yeah, go absolutely mad and aggressively psychopathic.

1718
01:11:02.579 --> 01:11:05.819
But you get the impression that Stalman is so hell bent on

1719
01:11:05.819 --> 01:11:08.880
breaking the earth's crust because he's under the control of that

1720
01:11:08.880 --> 01:11:09.779
ooze thing.

1721
01:11:09.840 --> 01:11:12.600
Yeah, the earth is fighting back, but at the same time, the earth

1722
01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:13.800
wants to be broken open.

1723
01:11:13.920 --> 01:11:14.520
Yeah, yeah.

1724
01:11:14.579 --> 01:11:15.539
It doesn't really make a lot of sense.

1725
01:11:15.600 --> 01:11:16.979
But I like what you say.

1726
01:11:17.039 --> 01:11:19.380
The idea is that the threat is kept vague.

1727
01:11:19.439 --> 01:11:22.260
We don't really know what's going on and that's good, I think.

1728
01:11:22.319 --> 01:11:24.779
I think the reason that doesn't make a lot of sense is, you know

1729
01:11:24.779 --> 01:11:26.760
how can we understand the thought process for planet?

1730
01:11:27.359 --> 01:11:29.699
If that is what is going on?

1731
01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:33.359
And it's a question that not many people raise about the story, I

1732
01:11:33.359 --> 01:11:36.779
think because the story is circled on its own, but it's one of the

1733
01:11:36.779 --> 01:11:41.399
great unresolved questions of Doctor Who in that what is actually

1734
01:11:41.399 --> 01:11:44.399
happening underneath the mantle?

1735
01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:46.800
Spooky.

1736
01:11:46.859 --> 01:11:49.260
I think it's a little magma creatures.

1737
01:11:49.319 --> 01:11:50.520
It's a metaphor.

1738
01:11:50.579 --> 01:11:51.119
It is.

1739
01:11:51.479 --> 01:11:54.300
He's the lovely metaphor.

1740
01:11:54.539 --> 01:11:59.520
I just would like to posit an anti-Jemmy Laird award for someone

1741
01:11:59.520 --> 01:12:02.220
we don't get to see a lot of Wally Randall, who's, you know

1742
01:12:02.220 --> 01:12:05.699
dressed up and doing one of the blokes in the coats, but he always

1743
01:12:05.699 --> 01:12:09.600
in his place, Prime Ward, but he's famous, apparently, anecdotally

1744
01:12:09.600 --> 01:12:14.520
conventions for having the Prime Ward outfits and having to double

1745
01:12:14.520 --> 01:12:19.319
for Carrie when she's offset in rehearsal shops with John and the

1746
01:12:19.319 --> 01:12:22.260
establishing shots in the Prime Ward outfit.

1747
01:12:22.439 --> 01:12:27.000
And a white lab coat and carries black week and playing it totally

1748
01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:30.779
straight against John and John trying not to crack up.

1749
01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:34.439
The best trick he did was get a half crown coin on those really

1750
01:12:34.439 --> 01:12:37.619
fine invisible wires and drag it around the floor, so pertly would

1751
01:12:37.619 --> 01:12:39.720
see it each time and try and pick it up and it would disappear.

1752
01:12:39.779 --> 01:12:44.340
But he was apparently really cross at the end of the shoot with

1753
01:12:44.340 --> 01:12:47.579
Canfield and and the practical jokes.

1754
01:12:47.640 --> 01:12:49.319
The havoc were even naughtier.

1755
01:12:49.439 --> 01:12:53.039
Because they're all ex-army boys and a bit cheeky.

1756
01:12:53.100 --> 01:12:55.619
So, of course, there was a real team with Duggee Canfield playing

1757
01:12:55.619 --> 01:13:00.000
naughty buggers and, and, um, the castman and Pert we being

1758
01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:01.920
perhaps sidelight by the jokes.

1759
01:13:01.979 --> 01:13:05.279
So can I tell you my surprising fact about Inferno?

1760
01:13:05.340 --> 01:13:08.640
that Sheila Dunn was cast when Kate O'Mara was unavailable.

1761
01:13:09.840 --> 01:13:13.680
Yeah, according to the TARDIS databank thing on the internet.

1762
01:13:13.739 --> 01:13:15.119
So it's probably true.

1763
01:13:15.180 --> 01:13:16.199
But can you imagine?

1764
01:13:16.260 --> 01:13:17.039
Wouldn't that have been great?

1765
01:13:17.100 --> 01:13:19.020
I think I have actually heard that somewhere before.

1766
01:13:19.079 --> 01:13:19.800
I'd love that to be.

1767
01:13:19.859 --> 01:13:23.760
I know that Sheila wanted to play it because the tachycardia, it

1768
01:13:23.760 --> 01:13:27.180
wasn't a full heart attack, but the heart problems that Canfield

1769
01:13:27.180 --> 01:13:27.779
were having.

1770
01:13:27.840 --> 01:13:30.659
She was very concerned that, you know, she wasn't on set.

1771
01:13:30.720 --> 01:13:31.739
She wanted to be there.

1772
01:13:31.800 --> 01:13:34.680
Yeah, just to keep an eye on him and get him out of the way before

1773
01:13:34.680 --> 01:13:35.399
it got too bad.

1774
01:13:35.460 --> 01:13:36.300
Right.

1775
01:13:36.300 --> 01:13:38.579
I mean, he was okay.

1776
01:13:38.640 --> 01:13:39.180
He came back.

1777
01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:42.479
He came back later, but it was actually pretty, you know, a touch

1778
01:13:42.479 --> 01:13:44.819
and go and he was taken off set and didn't finish it.

1779
01:13:44.880 --> 01:13:46.800
I think it's a terrific story.

1780
01:13:46.859 --> 01:13:49.199
It's well worth watching if you've never seen it. absolutely.

1781
01:13:49.260 --> 01:13:52.859
This is actually probably my favourite season of the Purp Week.

1782
01:13:52.979 --> 01:13:57.840
I thought it was, and maybe as we continue our flights.

1783
01:13:57.899 --> 01:14:01.619
And I, uh, continue into season eight, maybe I'll still think it

1784
01:14:01.619 --> 01:14:01.920
is.

1785
01:14:01.979 --> 01:14:05.699
But I'm actually, I'm pining for the show to be more fun.

1786
01:14:05.760 --> 01:14:06.720
Do you know what I mean?

1787
01:14:06.779 --> 01:14:10.319
And I want my show back.

1788
01:14:10.380 --> 01:14:13.739
So perhaps you should tell us who your Jenny Laird Award is for?

1789
01:14:13.859 --> 01:14:15.119
Well, it has to be.

1790
01:14:15.239 --> 01:14:18.300
I mean, I guess it's Sherwin, although I just can't tell whether

1791
01:14:18.300 --> 01:14:22.140
it's Sherwin or Letts or Dix, but it is the decision.

1792
01:14:22.140 --> 01:14:26.880
Whoever makes the decision to cancel Doctor Who at the end of 1969

1793
01:14:26.880 --> 01:14:33.060
and replace it with this show, which lacks any of the iconography

1794
01:14:33.060 --> 01:14:37.020
of Doctor Who, we haven't had the TARDIS exterior in shot the 21

1795
01:14:37.020 --> 01:14:37.800
episodes.

1796
01:14:37.859 --> 01:14:42.420
It's, you know, a series of sort of greasy Quaker mass knockoffs

1797
01:14:42.420 --> 01:14:46.500
undermined by occasional moments of sort of Doctor Who silliness.

1798
01:14:46.560 --> 01:14:53.220
And, you know, the show gets renewed, but, but, I miss it and I'm

1799
01:14:53.220 --> 01:14:55.020
looking forward to season 8 starting.

1800
01:14:55.020 --> 01:15:00.720
And maybe I'll reevaluate it at the end of pertly, but to my

1801
01:15:00.720 --> 01:15:07.439
surprise, I found myself thinking that this was just a little bit

1802
01:15:07.439 --> 01:15:09.720
too tiresome to be the program I loved.

1803
01:15:09.779 --> 01:15:13.560
Well, my Jenny Way toward is for something a lot more specific.

1804
01:15:13.619 --> 01:15:17.279
And it's actually something we've mentioned already, so I won't go

1805
01:15:17.279 --> 01:15:21.840
on about it, but it's for Terrence Dix and Mac Hulk and Trevor Ray

1806
01:15:21.840 --> 01:15:25.380
who killed Dr. Lennox.

1807
01:15:25.439 --> 01:15:27.659
We needed affinity answer.

1808
01:15:27.720 --> 01:15:28.619
Richard.

1809
01:15:28.680 --> 01:15:30.779
Ah, ooh, minutiae.

1810
01:15:30.840 --> 01:15:35.939
I'm really perplexed with this one because I don't actually have

1811
01:15:35.939 --> 01:15:36.359
one.

1812
01:15:36.420 --> 01:15:39.779
I think that all I can say is praise where it's due.

1813
01:15:39.840 --> 01:15:43.500
They were trying to be as experimental as possible, really pushed

1814
01:15:43.500 --> 01:15:47.579
the boundaries of a show that had dropped in the ratings where it

1815
01:15:47.579 --> 01:15:49.319
had become terribly formulaic.

1816
01:15:49.380 --> 01:15:52.439
They said, we'll never do that again. lumbered, if you like, with

1817
01:15:52.439 --> 01:15:53.460
these very long stories.

1818
01:15:53.520 --> 01:15:58.260
Let's try and make each one as different within the same, you know

1819
01:15:58.260 --> 01:15:59.159
based under siege.

1820
01:15:59.220 --> 01:16:00.000
It would kind of do.

1821
01:16:00.060 --> 01:16:02.640
We have a world or at least a county under siege, don't we?

1822
01:16:02.699 --> 01:16:04.439
an island under siege this time round.

1823
01:16:04.500 --> 01:16:07.500
It's just a slightly bigger canvas, but there's a lot more variety

1824
01:16:07.500 --> 01:16:08.039
in it.

1825
01:16:08.100 --> 01:16:10.619
And I think well done, everyone, for having a go-at.

1826
01:16:10.680 --> 01:16:13.920
I'm sure there were flaws that we've talked about them and pert we

1827
01:16:13.920 --> 01:16:16.140
still trying to find his legs on and off.

1828
01:16:16.199 --> 01:16:17.520
But I find that very interesting.

1829
01:16:17.579 --> 01:16:21.300
This is actually a really laudable season and I'm really glad to

1830
01:16:21.300 --> 01:16:22.680
be able to enjoy it.

1831
01:16:23.520 --> 01:16:26.159
Yeah, that's just to annoy everyone.

1832
01:16:27.899 --> 01:16:32.939
Well, moving hastily along to our picks of the month.

1833
01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:36.119
Mine has to be, and Richard, you were talking about it earlier.

1834
01:16:36.180 --> 01:16:40.619
Carolyn John's reading of Doctor Who and the Cave Monsters.

1835
01:16:40.680 --> 01:16:44.399
It's an excellent, excellent reading of a novel.

1836
01:16:44.460 --> 01:16:45.779
Don't tell us this.

1837
01:16:45.779 --> 01:16:47.039
I'll be a triumvirate.

1838
01:16:47.100 --> 01:16:47.939
No it wasn't even mine.

1839
01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:49.439
That was mine too.

1840
01:16:49.500 --> 01:16:49.739
Yeah.

1841
01:16:49.800 --> 01:16:52.560
Let's just all recommend that because it's wonderful.

1842
01:16:52.619 --> 01:16:53.819
Nathan might have something new.

1843
01:16:53.880 --> 01:16:56.579
I do have something different, but that is really, really good.

1844
01:16:56.640 --> 01:16:57.600
Yeah, yeah.

1845
01:16:57.600 --> 01:17:02.760
The novelisation, like all of Mac Holt's novelisations, is really

1846
01:17:02.760 --> 01:17:05.699
terrific and I could recommend, you know, the dinosaur invasion

1847
01:17:05.699 --> 01:17:10.020
and the doomsday weapon and, you know, all of those ones, I think

1848
01:17:10.020 --> 01:17:11.460
are really terrifically good.

1849
01:17:11.520 --> 01:17:15.539
But having Caroline John read it and do the voices and stuff and

1850
01:17:15.539 --> 01:17:17.039
they do voice treatments, don't they?

1851
01:17:17.100 --> 01:17:18.779
Yes, they do.

1852
01:17:18.840 --> 01:17:22.079
It's a terrific book.

1853
01:17:22.140 --> 01:17:26.640
My pick was going to be actually the auton invasion.

1854
01:17:26.699 --> 01:17:30.420
My favourite story of the season needs to be had from space

1855
01:17:30.420 --> 01:17:34.140
because it is the most Doctor Who-ish of the story.

1856
01:17:34.199 --> 01:17:35.399
It's very fresh.

1857
01:17:35.399 --> 01:17:35.699
Yeah.

1858
01:17:35.760 --> 01:17:38.579
And it's the direction of the show with a bit of tweaking will

1859
01:17:38.579 --> 01:17:43.260
eventually decide to go. you know, in in subsequent years.

1860
01:17:43.319 --> 01:17:49.800
But it's a great book and a lot of people say that, um, that one

1861
01:17:49.800 --> 01:17:52.319
of the characteristics of the pertwe years is that the books are

1862
01:17:52.319 --> 01:17:53.640
better than the show.

1863
01:17:53.699 --> 01:17:59.279
And certainly my experience. encountering autumn invasion as a

1864
01:17:59.279 --> 01:18:02.159
book, you know, beautifully illustrated, really fun and readable.

1865
01:18:02.220 --> 01:18:05.579
I think it's better than the final story.

1866
01:18:05.640 --> 01:18:09.300
A lot of those books are inexplicably out of prints and

1867
01:18:09.300 --> 01:18:12.779
inexplicably impossible to buy as e-books.

1868
01:18:12.840 --> 01:18:15.659
Unless you join our competition, Brent.

1869
01:18:15.720 --> 01:18:19.020
No, but this one is actually in print.

1870
01:18:19.079 --> 01:18:20.520
Oh, is it actually re-released?

1871
01:18:20.579 --> 01:18:22.560
So both Cave Monsters is as well.

1872
01:18:22.619 --> 01:18:26.460
Friend of the podcast, Jeff Wellen, gave me a copy of Dr. Doom and

1873
01:18:26.460 --> 01:18:28.020
the Cave Monsters, which he bought last time.

1874
01:18:28.500 --> 01:18:30.899
I have a lovely original edition.

1875
01:18:31.020 --> 01:18:31.500
Of course you do.

1876
01:18:32.220 --> 01:18:34.020
They're collected.

1877
01:18:34.079 --> 01:18:34.920
Yeah, they're both good.

1878
01:18:34.979 --> 01:18:37.140
Terrence's. is it Terrence's 1st novelisation?

1879
01:18:37.199 --> 01:18:38.939
Yeah, yeah, and we talked about it last week.

1880
01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:40.680
And he really pulls all the stops out.

1881
01:18:40.739 --> 01:18:42.899
He's definitely showing what he's worth in this.

1882
01:18:42.960 --> 01:18:45.119
He's a terrific children's rider.

1883
01:18:45.180 --> 01:18:46.560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1884
01:18:46.619 --> 01:18:49.020
Those books, I mean, those books are so important to my

1885
01:18:49.020 --> 01:18:49.439
childhood.

1886
01:18:49.500 --> 01:18:51.600
Also, can I do another pick very quickly?

1887
01:18:51.659 --> 01:18:55.500
It's pretty hard to find, but there's a documentary by Mark Gaitis

1888
01:18:55.500 --> 01:18:57.239
called from the outside.

1889
01:18:57.300 --> 01:19:00.899
It looked like an old fashioned police box and it's a radio

1890
01:19:00.899 --> 01:19:04.680
documentary about the history of the Doctor Who novelisations.

1891
01:19:04.739 --> 01:19:07.319
It includes an interview with Terrence Dix.

1892
01:19:07.380 --> 01:19:13.560
Look, it's possible to find in shady corners of the internet, if

1893
01:19:13.560 --> 01:19:17.760
you can possibly get hold that is utterly utterly compelling.

1894
01:19:17.819 --> 01:19:23.520
And those novelisations did so much for sort of the literacy of

1895
01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:27.060
teenagers and so much to inspire a whole new generation of people

1896
01:19:27.060 --> 01:19:29.520
to, you know, take over Doctor Who.

1897
01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:33.539
And, you know, Russell T. Davis gets interviewed and Mark Gatis

1898
01:19:33.539 --> 01:19:34.800
runs it and all of that sort of thing.

1899
01:19:34.859 --> 01:19:37.199
So if you can get hold of that, that's why we're listening to as

1900
01:19:37.199 --> 01:19:37.319
well.

1901
01:19:37.680 --> 01:19:40.859
And my go-to's are always the target north as well.

1902
01:19:40.920 --> 01:19:43.140
Because it's such a short season, really, with only 4 stories.

1903
01:19:43.199 --> 01:19:46.619
It's not much else to mention other than, you said Quadomass.

1904
01:19:46.680 --> 01:19:49.800
I mean, if you want to look at other films at the time, we could

1905
01:19:49.800 --> 01:19:53.880
look at Jerry Anderson's UFO, which was being broadcast from

1906
01:19:53.880 --> 01:19:54.720
1970.

1907
01:19:54.899 --> 01:19:58.380
So at the same period, it's really nice to see as a counterpoint

1908
01:19:58.380 --> 01:19:58.680
to this.

1909
01:19:58.739 --> 01:20:02.880
I mean, it's streets ahead as far as special effects, but the

1910
01:20:02.880 --> 01:20:05.640
storylines are still with alien incursions.

1911
01:20:05.699 --> 01:20:11.039
It's nice to see how a truly fascist organisation deals with

1912
01:20:11.039 --> 01:20:11.279
this.

1913
01:20:11.340 --> 01:20:13.680
And it's got some Doctor Who crossover actors and it's lovely, you

1914
01:20:13.680 --> 01:20:15.720
know, it's just gorgeous and modern flesh.

1915
01:20:15.720 --> 01:20:17.579
And it's got more to dent them in it.

1916
01:20:17.640 --> 01:20:19.079
So how can you not watch it?

1917
01:20:19.140 --> 01:20:22.260
So, yeah, I'd have a look at that if you've never seen it.

1918
01:20:22.380 --> 01:20:25.859
Two novelisations we were talking about, the auton invasion in the

1919
01:20:25.859 --> 01:20:30.539
cave monsters, were 2 of 5 Doctor Who novelisations, the rights

1920
01:20:30.539 --> 01:20:34.739
for which were bought by Hawakaya publishing in Japan in 1980.

1921
01:20:34.859 --> 01:20:37.260
And I actually have all five.

1922
01:20:37.319 --> 01:20:39.960
So I'll be putting up some photos on the website because what they

1923
01:20:39.960 --> 01:20:42.779
have is they have amazing new artwork covers.

1924
01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:46.680
They have a 2 page colour frontis piece and illustrations

1925
01:20:46.680 --> 01:20:50.760
different from the target novelisations because the Japanese

1926
01:20:50.760 --> 01:20:54.180
artists doing them only had reference to the text.

1927
01:20:54.239 --> 01:20:55.739
They didn't have any visual reference.

1928
01:20:55.800 --> 01:20:57.539
So you end up...

1929
01:20:57.600 --> 01:20:59.159
They look great, don't they?

1930
01:20:59.220 --> 01:21:00.659
The Daleks are superb.

1931
01:21:00.720 --> 01:21:04.439
Yeah, so I'll be putting, at the very least, the covers up on the

1932
01:21:04.439 --> 01:21:04.739
website.

1933
01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:06.779
I'll see if I can scan the frontist pieces as well.

1934
01:21:07.020 --> 01:21:10.979
The other thing is, gentlemen, do you know what would have

1935
01:21:10.979 --> 01:21:14.880
happened if Doctor Who had been cancelled at the end of this

1936
01:21:14.880 --> 01:21:15.119
season?

1937
01:21:16.800 --> 01:21:21.479
Well, Barry Letts, if you like, was contracted to be a producer

1938
01:21:21.479 --> 01:21:22.800
for this time slot.

1939
01:21:22.859 --> 01:21:26.880
So if Doctor Who had been cancelled, Barry Letts had actually

1940
01:21:26.880 --> 01:21:29.760
developed that, the request for the BBC, a new drama series called

1941
01:21:29.760 --> 01:21:30.600
Snowy Black.

1942
01:21:30.960 --> 01:21:32.460
Oh, no.

1943
01:21:32.520 --> 01:21:33.420
Which one?

1944
01:21:33.420 --> 01:21:37.319
Which was about an Australian drover. who moves to London and the

1945
01:21:37.319 --> 01:21:38.520
resultant culture clash.

1946
01:21:38.579 --> 01:21:40.920
It's Crocodile Dundee 15 years early.

1947
01:21:40.979 --> 01:21:42.000
No, really, it is.

1948
01:21:42.060 --> 01:21:42.840
I've heard of this too.

1949
01:21:42.899 --> 01:21:44.279
Oh, gosh.

1950
01:21:44.279 --> 01:21:45.960
Apparently the reason it didn't go ahead.

1951
01:21:46.079 --> 01:21:46.979
It's terrible.

1952
01:21:47.520 --> 01:21:48.840
Yes, that would be a reason.

1953
01:21:48.899 --> 01:21:51.840
But it would have resulted in the heat depth of the universe.

1954
01:21:51.899 --> 01:21:55.260
Pretty much they couldn't get script writers willing to write for

1955
01:21:55.260 --> 01:21:57.539
it and they couldn't get an actor willing to play it and that's

1956
01:21:57.539 --> 01:22:00.600
why Doctor Who got mate season because Inferno was down to less

1957
01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:02.159
than 4000000 viewers by the end.

1958
01:22:02.220 --> 01:22:03.840
So it wasn't that successful.

1959
01:22:03.899 --> 01:22:06.239
It wasn't that this show was so successful. was just that all the

1960
01:22:06.239 --> 01:22:07.619
other ideas they had were really terrible.

1961
01:22:07.680 --> 01:22:09.479
It was moderately successful.

1962
01:22:09.539 --> 01:22:12.479
It was no, it was no worse than the previous year.

1963
01:22:12.539 --> 01:22:15.180
And indeed, when you average out the rating because there were

1964
01:22:15.180 --> 01:22:17.699
fewer episodes, the average rating was higher, the audience

1965
01:22:17.699 --> 01:22:19.199
appreciation index was higher.

1966
01:22:19.260 --> 01:22:22.380
But yeah, pretty much it got renewed for season 8 by default.

1967
01:22:23.039 --> 01:22:24.960
Not for the 1st time.

1968
01:22:25.020 --> 01:22:26.640
Not all the last indeed.

1969
01:22:41.699 --> 01:22:46.260
Now, as we expected, earlier, we still have a competition

1970
01:22:46.260 --> 01:22:46.800
running.

1971
01:22:46.859 --> 01:22:50.699
Please comment on our website for your chance to win a target

1972
01:22:50.699 --> 01:22:52.199
novelisation of your choice.

1973
01:22:52.260 --> 01:22:55.199
The newly revamped website.

1974
01:22:55.199 --> 01:22:56.279
Now, thank you, Nathan.

1975
01:22:56.340 --> 01:22:56.939
Now in colour.

1976
01:22:57.000 --> 01:22:58.560
What is the address of the website?

1977
01:22:58.619 --> 01:23:00.060
flight through entirety.com.

1978
01:23:00.180 --> 01:23:02.100
The flight through entirety.com.

1979
01:23:02.220 --> 01:23:03.539
Yeah, that is it.

1980
01:23:03.600 --> 01:23:04.140
Gosh.

1981
01:23:04.199 --> 01:23:08.279
Yeah, I can buy a domain name like the best of them.

1982
01:23:08.340 --> 01:23:11.159
To begin with a chance to win that, please just comment on our

1983
01:23:11.159 --> 01:23:13.920
website at flightthroughentirety.com.

1984
01:23:13.979 --> 01:23:17.640
Now, gentlemen, next month we are heading into season eight.

1985
01:23:17.699 --> 01:23:19.920
So here come your story allocations.

1986
01:23:20.039 --> 01:23:23.640
Now, in terms of pert we, he has a total of 24 stories.

1987
01:23:23.699 --> 01:23:25.739
So what I've done is I've actually divided up the whole era so we

1988
01:23:25.739 --> 01:23:26.460
get 8 stories each.

1989
01:23:26.520 --> 01:23:29.760
So occasionally you might be doing 2 stories, one, season, one

1990
01:23:29.760 --> 01:23:31.619
story, the next, et cetera, et cetera.

1991
01:23:31.680 --> 01:23:32.399
Nathan.

1992
01:23:32.760 --> 01:23:39.239
Your stories are the clause of Axos. and the Damons.

1993
01:23:39.300 --> 01:23:41.880
Ooh, the demons, one of those.

1994
01:23:41.939 --> 01:23:44.399
Depends on which episode you're in.

1995
01:23:44.460 --> 01:23:44.939
It does.

1996
01:23:45.000 --> 01:23:46.020
Richard.

1997
01:23:46.079 --> 01:23:49.199
Your stories are Terror of the Autons.

1998
01:23:49.199 --> 01:23:50.939
Golly. and the mind of evil.

1999
01:23:51.000 --> 01:23:53.399
They're the bestests too.

2000
01:23:53.460 --> 01:23:54.420
How exciting.

2001
01:23:54.479 --> 01:23:57.000
That's not worth taking a holiday in Cambridge for, is it?

2002
01:23:57.060 --> 01:23:57.479
That's great.

2003
01:23:57.600 --> 01:24:02.100
And you know what that leaves me with, don't you?

2004
01:24:02.159 --> 01:24:03.539
The luckiest of the lucky.

2005
01:24:03.539 --> 01:24:07.199
Colony in space, dear listener.

2006
01:24:07.260 --> 01:24:10.680
Just so you know, there is no favouritism in how these stories are

2007
01:24:10.680 --> 01:24:11.220
chosen.

2008
01:24:11.279 --> 01:24:15.239
They are chosen by the Randomiser.net, which gave me the colony in

2009
01:24:15.239 --> 01:24:15.600
space.

2010
01:24:15.659 --> 01:24:18.899
Thank you, Nathan, who plays...

2011
01:24:18.960 --> 01:24:19.619
It totally hates you.

2012
01:24:19.680 --> 01:24:22.619
You've also got a brilliant target novel. very true.

2013
01:24:22.680 --> 01:24:23.399
It's really good.

2014
01:24:23.399 --> 01:24:25.140
Japanese version.

2015
01:24:25.199 --> 01:24:28.020
Yeah, why don't you just do the whole podcast in Japanese the next

2016
01:24:28.020 --> 01:24:29.279
time we just do that?

2017
01:24:29.699 --> 01:24:34.439
I think I think any native Japanese speaker would shun me, disown

2018
01:24:34.439 --> 01:24:36.239
me, if I attempted to do that.

2019
01:24:36.300 --> 01:24:37.859
I know how to say about 5 words.

2020
01:24:37.920 --> 01:24:40.979
So, dear listener, until a fortnight's time.

2021
01:24:41.039 --> 01:24:42.720
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

2022
01:24:42.779 --> 01:24:43.500
Good night.

2023
01:24:43.560 --> 01:24:44.100
Thank you.

2024
01:24:47.159 --> 01:24:50.100
Look, and listen to Flight 2 Entirety with Windsor Leader

2025
01:24:50.100 --> 01:24:53.220
Bottomley, editing leader of James, and a recent leader starting.

2026
01:24:53.279 --> 01:24:56.340
This episode, Chad Ducking, was recorded on Sunday, the 4th of

2027
01:24:56.340 --> 01:24:56.819
January.

2028
01:24:56.880 --> 01:24:59.579
The next episode will be released on February 15th.

2029
01:24:59.640 --> 01:25:02.220
You can find us online at flightthroughentirety.com, flight

2030
01:25:02.220 --> 01:25:05.579
through entirety on Facebook and iTunes, their FTE podcast and

2031
01:25:05.579 --> 01:25:06.000
Twitter.

2032
01:25:06.060 --> 01:25:09.000
If you're planning to wear an eye patch, it's best to wear it on

2033
01:25:09.000 --> 01:25:09.659
your eye.

2034
01:25:12.720 --> 01:25:15.600
Just one in a long line of intransition-based commanders.

2035
01:25:15.659 --> 01:25:18.420
But he's pretty appealingly played.

2036
01:25:18.479 --> 01:25:20.340
I think, and we do see 2 versions of him.

2037
01:25:20.399 --> 01:25:21.060
I like him.

2038
01:25:21.119 --> 01:25:21.960
Do you know what I mean?

2039
01:25:22.020 --> 01:25:25.260
And I probably shouldn't at this point, just given all of the

2040
01:25:25.260 --> 01:25:28.800
crummy base commanders that we've had to sit through over the past

2041
01:25:28.800 --> 01:25:30.300
3 years.

2042
01:25:30.359 --> 01:25:31.619
But I think it's pretty good.

2043
01:25:31.680 --> 01:25:33.539
Richard, do you like it?

2044
01:25:33.600 --> 01:25:35.039
Pertly?

2045
01:25:35.100 --> 01:25:35.579
No.

2046
01:25:35.640 --> 01:25:36.420
Stalman.

2047
01:25:36.600 --> 01:25:37.140
Cut.

2048
01:25:37.439 --> 01:25:39.359
I...