WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:08:17 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:45.719 Hello, dear Lister, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that wants you to stay the hell away from us with that Sonic screwdriver. 2 00:00:45.780 --> 00:00:47.460 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:47.579 --> 00:00:48.420 I'm Peter. 4 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:53.460 I'm Simon, and I am a bathtub full of promising blanc mange for this one. 5 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:55.259 Richard, you're that every week. 6 00:00:56.460 --> 00:01:08.819 Well, the workers have risen up against us again for some reason, and it looks like the only person who can save us from this terrifying acid trip is still suffering from the effects of a particularly nasty facial. 7 00:01:08.819 --> 00:01:17.159 Let's see how this complex political situation can be painlessly resolved between the people and the almost people. 8 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:40.620 All right, so, let's talk very quickly, as we are wont to do about the cliffhanger resolution. 9 00:01:40.739 --> 00:01:47.879 Well, it's one of those cliffhangers that doesn't need a resolution in the way that's not like a die, doctor, die, kind of clickhanger. 10 00:01:47.939 --> 00:01:51.239 So I think the resolution is a sort of a continuation of the story. 11 00:01:51.299 --> 00:01:53.879 It's actually kind of fun in a way. 12 00:01:53.939 --> 00:01:58.319 Yeah we really did need something to get us to tune in next time after the episode. 13 00:01:58.379 --> 00:02:00.180 Oh how dare you? 14 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:04.019 I really like it. 15 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:08.340 I think that this episode straight off has more to recommend it than last episode. 16 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:19.199 I think the Matt's doctor versus doctor interaction is really fun and plays to his strengths and for all the bitching I've done about the quality of the direction last episode, I think it's seamlessly put together. 17 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:27.780 The actors do seem, I should say, the performers do seem to know I have a better handle on what they're doing this time around, don't they? 18 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:33.240 And is that the writing or is that direction or is it just simply that we've been on the set for a while? 19 00:02:33.300 --> 00:02:36.960 Matt certainly feels, I like Matt's hesitancy. 20 00:02:37.020 --> 00:02:43.740 Although I should say the doctor's hesitancy and his removal from the drama. 21 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:49.020 I do like that he's a spectator in much of this and there's an uneasiness to that. 22 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:54.539 He's not the centre of, and he's certainly not driving the narrative in this. 23 00:02:54.599 --> 00:03:00.840 When the doctor is sitting back, the stakes, I feel, become higher because he's not in control. 24 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:07.259 And for a young person who'd be watching this, I feel that perhaps this one felt more fraught because of that. 25 00:03:07.500 --> 00:03:21.599 Although, I mean, the beginning of the episode is an injection of really much needed fun into the story and having 2 Matt Smiths, which I would gladly have all the time, you know, from here on in, I think. 26 00:03:21.659 --> 00:03:28.979 Matt Smith's equal one Anthony Ainley, because we didn't have Simon's die doctor die, so we had to... 27 00:03:29.879 --> 00:03:36.900 It's also a case of diminishing returns because Matt playing against himself here, brilliant, but they'll try the same trick next season. 28 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:39.960 It won't work quite so well No, absolutely. 29 00:03:40.020 --> 00:03:51.599 But I do think that just kind of that sort of delighted admiration of himself, you know, he's super happy to be in his own company and he thinks he's really terribly good. 30 00:03:51.659 --> 00:03:54.120 And I think all of that's adorable. 31 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:57.000 Yeah, and it's all the false modesty. like, 0 no, thank you. 32 00:03:57.060 --> 00:03:58.080 Oh no, it's okay, you know? 33 00:03:58.139 --> 00:04:00.000 It's really quite fun. 34 00:04:00.060 --> 00:04:09.900 But it is kind of, I mean, I agree that it kind of does introduce sort of a much needed wit into it because the 1st episode is a little, is, I wouldn't acknowledge flat for that. 35 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:12.000 It's like having river salt there. 36 00:04:12.060 --> 00:04:14.819 You have these 2 terribly witty people bantering off each other. 37 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:15.539 Yeah. 38 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:18.000 Wouldn't it be great to have the doctor accompanied by the doctor? 39 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:20.040 Yeah, yeah, his travels. 40 00:04:20.819 --> 00:04:23.639 A multi-doctor story with the same actor. 41 00:04:23.699 --> 00:04:25.079 Basically, with the same doctor. 42 00:04:25.139 --> 00:04:27.480 Yeah, and we tried that last in Journey's end. 43 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:29.579 And it's conspicuous how better this works. 44 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:31.860 Yes, well, that goes without saying. 45 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:32.939 Oh, fine. 46 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:35.339 No, but it does. 47 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:38.519 I think it does because they're actually playing against each other. 48 00:04:38.579 --> 00:04:44.160 And I mean, my favourite bits of multi-doctor stories is not all the doctors being in their own silos. 49 00:04:44.220 --> 00:04:45.600 It's when they are talking to each other. 50 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:49.259 And this is what you've got a lot of straight straight off. 51 00:04:49.319 --> 00:05:03.540 You've got the 2 Matt Smiths having the beautiful double X. And I love, one thing we haven't covered is I love the, you know, when the gang adopter is becoming fully formed, you know, all of the, the one day I shall come back has to kind of leak out and the John Flam and so on like that. 52 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:06.120 But it is funny that the one day I... 53 00:05:06.180 --> 00:05:06.720 Did you love that? 54 00:05:06.779 --> 00:05:07.920 I found that very rose. 55 00:05:07.980 --> 00:05:11.100 Yeah, maybe not wrote. 56 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:14.100 Well, I think I think they did it well. 57 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:20.639 If they're going to do that, I think... they do tenant and they do Tom, you know, and they do the voices and all of that sort of thing. 58 00:05:20.699 --> 00:05:27.060 And I think that that's actually okay because this isn't the 1980s where we're doing that sort of stuff every week. 59 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:30.420 It's been a while since we had that in the show. 60 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:32.639 And I do think that it is actually sort of nice. 61 00:05:32.699 --> 00:05:41.040 I mean, there's a sense in which there are elements of previous Doctor Who stories in this one. 62 00:05:41.819 --> 00:05:44.519 It is very sort of TRAD. 63 00:05:44.579 --> 00:05:47.040 And I'm sort of okay with it. 64 00:05:47.100 --> 00:05:55.680 One of the things I didn't mention last week is it last week that we hear the story where the gangers go crazy and tear someone up and all that's left, is there a ear or something? 65 00:05:55.740 --> 00:05:57.240 I think buzzer tells the story. 66 00:05:57.240 --> 00:06:05.160 And it's absolutely the story that's told to Borg in the 1st episode of Robots of Dead. 67 00:06:05.220 --> 00:06:06.120 Or his arm off. 68 00:06:06.180 --> 00:06:07.079 Thank QV 15. 69 00:06:09.300 --> 00:06:11.459 I heard it was a leg. 70 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:25.560 Amy notices almost straight away that the doctors have different shoes. 71 00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:37.800 And so we know the real doctor has the sort of crummy, ludicrous shoes that he's sort of peeked out of a locker after he trod in some acid, which had some very sort of Harry Sullivan vibes for me, I have to say. 72 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:43.319 And the real doctor has his really terribly nice shoes. 73 00:06:43.379 --> 00:06:49.379 And that's obviously something that is going to be sort of a huge point. 74 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:54.779 And the director deliberately goes out of his way to not let us see the shoes. 75 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:57.300 No, there's a close-up of them digging next to a show. 76 00:06:57.360 --> 00:06:59.040 Oh, no, but from then on. 77 00:06:59.100 --> 00:06:59.759 Yeah, yeah. 78 00:06:59.819 --> 00:07:01.139 From then on, yeah. 79 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:01.680 Yep, yep. 80 00:07:01.740 --> 00:07:08.939 But isn't it interesting that they kind of hang a lantern on the somewhat stupid thing, of the fact that the flesh also mimics the clothes. 81 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:17.279 So somehow the doctor putting his hand into the flesh pond in the previous episodes where it's obviously read his biology to make the duplicate of him. 82 00:07:17.339 --> 00:07:23.160 It's also read his schwat shoes he's wearing. to do it at that point. 83 00:07:23.220 --> 00:07:30.540 It's sort of almost deliberately ignoring that, but they're kind of like invisible enemy sort of clones in that part of your DNA are the clothes that you're wearing. 84 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:32.220 That's quite beautiful though. 85 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:35.519 That's quite beautiful because it plays on the imagination. 86 00:07:35.579 --> 00:07:38.579 It also reads how we present ourselves. 87 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:41.639 I'd like to see that it would have been nice if there's a nice idea. 88 00:07:41.699 --> 00:07:43.259 There'd be a heightened sense. 89 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:46.740 Maybe the bow tie could have been even bigger and more colourful. 90 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:48.720 You could dress him as a bloody clown, actually. 91 00:07:48.779 --> 00:07:54.600 I would have liked to have said, how does the Smith doctor actually see himself and then see that presented? 92 00:07:54.660 --> 00:07:56.399 I mean, that would have been silly. 93 00:07:56.459 --> 00:07:59.220 Simon, that also could have been the title of this episode. 94 00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:00.240 The flesh pond. 95 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:03.060 Poor Amy. 96 00:08:03.180 --> 00:08:05.100 Or Amy. 97 00:08:05.939 --> 00:08:14.160 Does anyone else have a problem with the whole double doctor and Amy plot in this episode? 98 00:08:14.519 --> 00:08:18.000 Uh, yes, yeah, I think it's really crap. 99 00:08:18.060 --> 00:08:36.120 Amy sort of takes against the ganger doctor in a way that is kind of believable, but, you know, the whole thing's been explained to her, and she's even prepared to concede that he's almost that key word as good as the original doctor. 100 00:08:36.179 --> 00:08:41.639 And she says, you know, I didn't travel with him and I, like I don't properly know him. 101 00:08:41.700 --> 00:08:46.139 I don't have the history with this doctor that I have with the other doctor. 102 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:52.080 But I mean, that doesn't make any sense in the context of the story, does it? 103 00:08:52.139 --> 00:08:54.480 Because they have the same memories. 104 00:08:54.539 --> 00:08:58.139 I mean, in effect, she did travel with that doctor. doesn't matter. 105 00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:04.080 What are we, but the summation of our memories. and our tastes and our hopes and we're back to Blade Runner. 106 00:09:04.139 --> 00:09:10.320 Yeah, I think that's the character trying to differentiate between the 2 individuals. 107 00:09:10.379 --> 00:09:25.139 Like, if you, if you're put in that situation and you had, you know, someone who you, you know and love and care about duplicated, uh, and you, like, literally duplicated in every way, it'd be natural, I think, to try and say, well, this is the original. 108 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:31.379 And so now I need to create reasons why the 1st one is superior to the 2nd one. 109 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:38.039 I get what you're saying, and I think there is something in what you're saying, but I think we're probably thinking about that too hard. 110 00:09:38.100 --> 00:09:40.200 We're back to Benjamin, actually. 111 00:09:40.259 --> 00:09:46.200 So why does the doctor teach her this lesson about her own bigotry in such a cold, manipulative way? 112 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:51.600 Yeah, I think that's kind of the problem. 113 00:09:51.659 --> 00:10:05.159 And the fact that he drags her out of the room and physically threatens her, and that's how we're meant to read him as the flesh. 114 00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:14.879 And he even does a sort of slightly less posh version of his accent when he's doing that as well, because the flesh are, you know, the working classes or whatever. 115 00:10:14.940 --> 00:10:16.500 And so he does. conquer me. 116 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:18.120 He goes a bit EastEnders, doesn't he? 117 00:10:18.179 --> 00:10:19.559 Get out my path. 118 00:10:19.620 --> 00:10:25.980 He does sort of tone down the posh schoolboy accent for a moment there. 119 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:31.379 And he's threatening her and he gives the speech about the eyes, doesn't he? 120 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:41.340 Which is the thing that Jen remembers, like Jen is able to remember all of the previous decommissioning and what that feels like. 121 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:44.100 And that's a super cheesy scene too, isn't it? 122 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:46.080 The last question they ask is why. 123 00:10:46.139 --> 00:10:48.960 It's so on the nose. dialogue. 124 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:50.879 Shocking. 125 00:10:50.940 --> 00:10:53.279 But like, what's the purpose of that? 126 00:10:53.340 --> 00:10:55.379 I just don't understand what the purpose is. 127 00:10:55.440 --> 00:10:58.799 And I think that you're always waiting for that other shooter drop. 128 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:04.740 It doesn't come as a surprise that, oh, it was the doctor all along and your bigotry was irrational. 129 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:06.179 You know that that's where it's going. 130 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:07.679 So what is the point of it? 131 00:11:07.740 --> 00:11:09.299 That's right. 132 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:20.460 And so all you're left with is the realisation that this was, in fact, the doctor roughing up Amy and saying these nasty things and her walking away from him saying, keep him away from me. 133 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:25.980 And all in service of a red herring or something to make her think, you know, later on. 134 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:28.679 And then he goes on and he roughs up Rory as well. 135 00:11:28.740 --> 00:11:29.879 So it's really not great. 136 00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:31.860 It puts me mind of the twin dilemma. 137 00:11:32.220 --> 00:11:44.820 So I do have a thing and I don't know whether this is a crazed fan theory or whether everyone except me already knows this about series 6 and I'm going to look like a massive idiot. 138 00:11:45.059 --> 00:11:59.279 One thing that does happen, and maybe this is the reason, is that Amy tells the actual doctor and not the ganger doctor that she has seen him killed. 139 00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:05.940 And so now the doctor knows that and he didn't know it before, right? 140 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:14.100 And so at this point now, the doctor is going to try and stop that from happening. 141 00:12:14.220 --> 00:12:29.340 And if he rewrites time to do that, is it possible that Canton was telling the truth, that originally it really was the Doctor Who is dead and then the doctor intervenes later to change it so that it isn't him? 142 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:31.860 We don't know yet, do we? 143 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:38.820 But that also touches on the premise of this, and I know I keep going to the higher level on this, on the writing of this. 144 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:46.740 But there's a line, if you'll indulge me, Susan Buck Moore's wrote on Benjamin on the further critiquing of what is a copy. 145 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:47.399 What is the truth? 146 00:12:47.460 --> 00:12:58.679 When she talks about restoring the instinctual power of the human bodily senses for the sake of humanity's self-preservation, and to do this, not by avoiding new technologies, but by passing through them. 147 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:01.980 In other words, by becoming one with them or uniting with them. 148 00:13:02.039 --> 00:13:07.919 And absorbing them into the vision of ourselves and that we are, we are all one, in other words. 149 00:13:07.980 --> 00:13:15.840 And our copies and our duplicates and the things that we make are substantives for ourselves and for what we hold dear and true of ourselves. 150 00:13:15.899 --> 00:13:21.419 And that's why I really like the scene, with the cockany, Matt Smith going off. 151 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:22.379 I don't like it. 152 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:33.600 It's disturbing to watch, but the truth of it is that he's very much in touch with what his ganger is going through and that they're sharing the same thoughts and feelings at that time. 153 00:13:34.259 --> 00:13:36.299 And that's certainly true. 154 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:47.159 Like the only way that the real doctor knows about the eyes, which is something that the gang of doctor is experiencing to a lesser degree in the other room is because they're linked. 155 00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:53.580 So he is learning to feel what it's like to be a ganger just by having a ganger duplicate in this situation. 156 00:13:53.700 --> 00:14:04.860 Isn't there some suggestion that they can kind of, even, you know, after the solar storm, that they can sense each other to some extent or that there's some momentary connection from time to time. 157 00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:10.980 And you can imagine that the doctor's connection would be much more superior to the human one, to his gang herself. 158 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:13.379 That's what I got from it very much, yes. 159 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:15.240 No, I think there's something in that. 160 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:20.220 There's a charitable reading of the scene where no one is quite as they are. 161 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:23.159 So it's the doctor pretending to be the ganger doctor. 162 00:14:23.220 --> 00:14:23.700 That's fine. 163 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:27.779 And he is also interreleasing with someone who he knows is not the real Amy. 164 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:37.980 And so it's sort of, it's sort of more okay that he's, he doesn't treat her like the real Amy, but it doesn't take away from the fact that what you're watching in the moment is, like you said, Richard, a bit uncomfortable. 165 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:41.279 Yeah, but I don't think it's bad to be a bit uncomfortable. 166 00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:50.879 I mean, I remember, you know, you do get sequences in other things where the hero is being unpleasant for one reason or other, and I think I think they can be part of the complexity. 167 00:14:50.940 --> 00:14:53.639 Remember though, that the not real Amy that we discover at the end. 168 00:14:53.700 --> 00:15:01.919 She's completely linked to the real Amy off wherever she is, uh, in a way that the gangers were linked to their host's pre-the solar store. 169 00:15:01.980 --> 00:15:03.960 It's only the solar storm that split them into two. 170 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:07.259 This Amy is feeling everything that this ganger Amy is feeling. 171 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:15.419 And for us ever since Day of the Moon, this Amy has been our Amy. 172 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:19.860 I mean, we've been watching it and experiencing her as Amy. 173 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:27.059 And so the revelation that she's not at the end of this episode, you know, only comes later. 174 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:38.100 And so when we've been watching Day of the Moon, when we've been watching Curse of the Black Spot and the Doctor's Wife, that has been the Amy that we've been experiencing as actual Amy. 175 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:49.200 And so I, that is, I think, exactly right, Simon, that Amy is driving that kind of replica of herself, experiencing what it experiences. 176 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:58.139 And that's partly part of the eye patch woman's plan to kind of make it look like she hasn't kidnapped Amy. 177 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:02.519 But it's also a deception that's being played on Amy herself. 178 00:16:02.580 --> 00:16:05.759 She doesn't know where she is or what's happening to her. 179 00:16:05.820 --> 00:16:13.379 And I think that we can now locate that in between the 1st 2 episodes, can't we, where she's suddenly not pregnant? 180 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:19.259 And that's not because it's a weird timehead pregnancy or whatever, although it is. 181 00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:26.940 But it's because we're now experiencing the ganger, Amy, and we never kind of find out when that happens. 182 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:32.460 But it must have happened by the time of day of the moon, because of course that's the 1st time we see iPads later. 183 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:33.240 Yeah. 184 00:16:33.299 --> 00:16:41.759 I was talking to a friend of the podcast, Stuart Manning about this, and I think that might be part of the problem with this story, is that it's kind of, there's some reverse engineering going on. 185 00:16:41.820 --> 00:16:55.500 So the story is here to deliver the revelation about Amy being a ganger of herself, a clone of herself, but then the whole story before that is to kind of set that up, and she doesn't really play a role in that story. 186 00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:59.519 She has the role where she's dousing the doctor because he's not real. 187 00:16:59.580 --> 00:17:06.960 Whereas actually, I think she should have had Rory's role where she feels some kinship for the gangers ahead of everyone else. 188 00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:10.019 And so plays on the sympathy of that and actually goes on a journey with it. 189 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:11.759 And I think that's thrown away a little bit. 190 00:17:12.059 --> 00:17:14.339 I think that's really interesting. 191 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:19.500 I do think that there is, there's some kind of friction, there's some sort of problem. 192 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:25.319 There's some issue at the joins here between the arc and what the story itself is doing. 193 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:26.759 Yeah. 194 00:17:27.420 --> 00:17:40.680 I think Gangers and Silurians last season, which we talked about in the previous episode, share some of the same kind of problems, because in both of them, they're progressing the arc, but it's not the showrunner doing it. 195 00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:48.599 And I'm not necessarily saying that maybe arc stories shouldn't be given to non-showrunner people, just maybe they shouldn't be given to Chris Chiplin and Matthew Graham. 196 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:56.819 I think that's needlessly cruel You and I know there is no needlessly, girl. 197 00:18:09.779 --> 00:18:19.740 I do think that we have this sort of situation where the show is attempting literally the most kind of complex and ambitious arc that it's ever done. 198 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:23.819 And there's a lot of plates that need to be kept spinning. 199 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:31.440 And I think we thought that Curse of the Black Spot suffered a bit as a result of the arc. 200 00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:37.680 And here, I think, the story is kind of built round the arc. 201 00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:42.599 Like we need to know about the gangers, we need to have a story about gangers. 202 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:52.559 I think that the story that's told here about gangers is kind of the obvious story to tell, and it's a good story to tell, but there's some problem at the seams, I think. 203 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:57.900 However, I do think the person who fares best from the 2nd episode is Cleaves. 204 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:10.079 I think that she is really quite incredible, and I just want to shout out to that scene where there are the 2 Cleaves, kind of conspiring against one another in different rooms and trying to 2nd guess one another. 205 00:19:10.140 --> 00:19:16.200 And I do think that the actor herself is really pretty damn good. 206 00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:19.259 Let me agree with you on half of that, Nathan. 207 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:22.380 I think Cleaves has the most interesting material in this episode. 208 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:27.420 However, Raquel Cassidy, who I like in other things, she was really good in Townes Abbey. 209 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:32.940 Please every line like this. too much world. 210 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:35.640 Yes, there is a bit too much world weariness in her delivery. 211 00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:36.779 Downton Abbey. 212 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:40.079 I was spending the entirety of watching it going, where have I seen this woman before? 213 00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:40.980 Yes of course. 214 00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:42.779 She's in Downton Abbey. 215 00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:55.680 But I think there you're actually seeing a character that where or the character that we're missing in the 1st episode, the only character that gets developed in any way is Jen, and Jimmy a little bit. 216 00:19:55.740 --> 00:19:58.680 And now Cleves gets her character developed. 217 00:19:58.740 --> 00:20:01.980 It's her turn and I think she comes off well because of it. 218 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:04.079 Yes, and it's quite a subtle change. 219 00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:05.819 Whereas I don't think Jen is. 220 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:07.740 I sort of struggle with the carry through Jen. 221 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:12.059 She's meek and mild, but why does that make Gangajan properly evil? 222 00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:14.940 She says she wants the gang to survive and have their own lives. 223 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:16.920 That's all fair enough, but she's psychotic. 224 00:20:16.980 --> 00:20:21.420 She seems to relish the prospect of mass murder and sort of rub her hands together in glee. 225 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:24.119 Yes, it's like we'll destroy them all. 226 00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:26.039 You know, with that sm- evil smile. 227 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:50.519 I think that's just the, you know, playing up the villainy kind of thing. and right, it would be more interesting if she wasn't quite so psychotic, but we touched on it last episode when we said that she was the one who was most intimately involved in the case of the gangers and the only one that actually shows any empathy for them. and therefore that drives her, um, her baselessness, in other words, she, she's driven to lose her sense of control and self more than the others. 228 00:20:50.579 --> 00:20:53.099 And therefore, she's probably the most interesting character in this. 229 00:20:53.160 --> 00:21:00.180 I think it may be a bit overplayed, and, you know, it's, I think the, it's asking a lot of itself, and the performance that it has. 230 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:02.160 The themes in this are so large. 231 00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:05.460 Perhaps the time and the scope isn't there. 232 00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:14.039 But I actually find her, yes, there's some of the performances boldarized, but I don't actually find that her impetus is odd at all. 233 00:21:14.099 --> 00:21:15.359 I think it's quite realistic. 234 00:21:15.539 --> 00:21:17.819 I've been to these rallies. 235 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:18.599 Yeah. 236 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:23.460 So she's the one who can remember being decommissioned. 237 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:31.079 And Brendan told me last night that the idea was that she was a person with an idetic memory. 238 00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:35.460 And so as a result, her ganger remembers the decommissioning. 239 00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:44.339 And so she's the one who tells the story about how gangers dissolve, because apparently they always fall into acid rather than anything else. 240 00:21:44.339 --> 00:21:49.740 And they dissolve with their eyes last and those, the question in those eyes is why. 241 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:52.500 And it's grotesquely overwritten. 242 00:21:52.559 --> 00:22:02.339 And she also has that scene with Rory last week, which is nearly successful and she has some sort of good moments there. 243 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:19.019 But it is that just the sort of speech that would only occur to a TV writer and that no one would ever say, this bizarre character beat where she's a little girl in Red Wellies and she remembers being scared of a picnic. 244 00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:20.640 And it's shockingly bad. 245 00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:33.240 And she imagines that there's a stronger, tougher Jennifer that, you know, like that exists basically to justify why she turns into the villain in part two. 246 00:22:33.299 --> 00:22:35.579 And it's a bad speech. 247 00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:37.980 It's not a completely terrible scene. 248 00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:42.059 There's some good stuff between her and Rory, which we mentioned last week. 249 00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:45.839 But that's also there to justify why she turns evil. 250 00:22:45.900 --> 00:22:58.680 And in fact, there is a pretty great moment where she's sort of ranting about being evil and Cleave just goes, no, actually, I'm sick of all this crap and I just want to live my life. 251 00:22:58.740 --> 00:23:00.180 Can we do that instead? 252 00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:04.440 That would shut the master up at times. 253 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:10.740 I think you are right, Nathan, about that speech. the red... 254 00:23:10.740 --> 00:23:11.579 Red Welly's. 255 00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:17.940 It is that kind of species that for me, a not very good writer, writes going, I have now created a character for this person. 256 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:18.720 Great kick. 257 00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:22.079 But you see those speeches in loads of stuff. 258 00:23:22.140 --> 00:23:23.519 And so maybe just wash over me. 259 00:23:23.579 --> 00:23:33.900 But maybe the reason why she remembers the decommissioning stuff is because remember all the flesh is, when they've all been melted down, and the flesh is just in the big vat, it's all connected to itself. 260 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:37.380 So, you know, it can divide the cells converted, et cetera, and it's all one thing. 261 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:42.420 So I think what it is is rather than the gen having a memory of it, of her decommissioning. 262 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:45.599 It like the flesh itself, is remembering all the deer commissionings. 263 00:23:45.660 --> 00:23:50.519 And for some reason that's been loaded into Jen's body, Jen's flesh body rather than any of the others. 264 00:23:50.579 --> 00:23:51.960 You know what I mean? 265 00:23:52.019 --> 00:23:52.859 Like there's a connection. 266 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:54.660 It's all one thing. 267 00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:55.740 It's all one entity. 268 00:23:55.799 --> 00:24:06.299 It just seems to me that the idea is that she's the person who's most conscious of their oppression and mistreatment and everyone else is telling her to calm the hell down. 269 00:24:06.299 --> 00:24:12.000 And I'm not sure that I like, you know, like, I'm just not sure that I like that very much. 270 00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:25.140 I do love the thing where she's sort of weirdly painting bits of herself on the wall and then we get the scene where the eyes are accusing everyone and it's super grotesque and it's only just on the boundary of what works. 271 00:24:25.259 --> 00:24:29.279 Like it risks enormously looking stupid. 272 00:24:29.339 --> 00:24:31.680 I'm absolutely on board with that. 273 00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:32.819 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 274 00:24:32.940 --> 00:24:39.599 I would just say when the lips appeared from the Gunge last episode and said, trust me, it all got perilously rocky horror. 275 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:44.700 God, this story could have used Patricia Quinn. 276 00:24:44.940 --> 00:24:48.000 Is there a story that's true of any story? 277 00:24:50.339 --> 00:24:53.460 During a grumbly, grindy jaw face. 278 00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:54.119 Yes. 279 00:24:54.359 --> 00:24:58.079 Oh, she would have made a great cleaves and made a meal. 280 00:24:58.140 --> 00:25:00.240 Does Jen get the immortal line? 281 00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:01.500 How could they do this? 282 00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:03.000 Who are the real monsters? 283 00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:06.119 Oh, actually deliver that life. 284 00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:08.819 I should missed it the 1st time. 285 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:09.420 Yes. 286 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:16.980 God, her crush on Rory has all the narrative depth of a Chumbly developing a crush on Finky. 287 00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:18.359 Terrible. 288 00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:19.680 Or canine. 289 00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:46.140 There is something clever about establishing that we've killed the gangagen only to find out that there's another gangagen. 290 00:25:46.140 --> 00:25:49.140 Because we never saw the actual real Jennifer die. 291 00:25:49.200 --> 00:26:00.059 We did have that reasonably effective scene last week where the real Jen, whom we hadn't seen for a while, is sort of walking along muling and being irritating. 292 00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:06.660 And then sort of scary gangagen is on the roof about to attack her, but we never see her killed. 293 00:26:06.660 --> 00:26:10.319 And, you know, it's established that she has a limp and all of that sort of thing. 294 00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:16.200 So I was actually, despite having seen this any number of times, momentarily blindsided by that. 295 00:26:16.259 --> 00:26:30.599 I'd actually forgotten that development and thought for a 2nd that we had the real Jen until, of course, she dupes Rory into activating the explode the base machine, which is conveniently located somewhere on the base. 296 00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:48.000 There is a point where, and I think you've just touched it where I feel we're watching a representation of Stella Gibbon's cold comfort farm, and I'm waiting for Joanna Lumley to turn up and espouse the benefits of a tight fitting corset, as perhaps one of the more controlling women. 297 00:26:48.059 --> 00:26:51.480 It just it just does feel a little bit yokel, doesn't it, by this stage? 298 00:26:51.539 --> 00:26:57.779 I'm trying to, you know, see it in its lofty ambitions, but unfortunately yeah, presentation does let us down. 299 00:26:58.980 --> 00:27:01.019 Also, it's so dull. 300 00:27:02.819 --> 00:27:07.740 No, I think probably a doll is not, not. 301 00:27:07.859 --> 00:27:09.000 Actually, at all. 302 00:27:09.059 --> 00:27:10.079 He's not dull. 303 00:27:10.140 --> 00:27:12.299 It's predictive, isn't it? 304 00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:16.200 It feels like the iPhone's written it with predictive text. 305 00:27:16.259 --> 00:27:19.920 You do kind of tell you know what's going to come in each moment. 306 00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:21.779 That's, yeah, but that's different to dull. 307 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:23.220 That's very dull. 308 00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:35.940 I think there can be something comforting about watching something which follows the, God, here's that word, tropes. you sort of know you sort of know what's going to happen next and you can expect it. 309 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:39.480 Maybe something's a signposted too much and the rest of it. 310 00:27:39.539 --> 00:27:40.440 But, oh, no. 311 00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:45.599 I do think that the gen thing is that's a surprise. 312 00:27:45.660 --> 00:27:49.380 I do like the stuff between the Cleaves's. 313 00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:58.200 I mean, we know that Ganga Cleaves is going to work out the special code word that the real Cleaves is typing into the thing. 314 00:27:58.259 --> 00:27:59.400 That comes as no surprise. 315 00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:01.980 We know that's kind of going to happen. 316 00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:13.680 But I do think that the way the whole thing is resolved is just unbearably kind of neat and pat. you know, towards the end, right? 317 00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:16.980 We're all running into the TARDIS in order to escape. 318 00:28:17.339 --> 00:28:20.400 The base is exploding around us. 319 00:28:20.460 --> 00:28:27.420 We have a few extra duplicates that we need to deal with so that only one of each person survives. 320 00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:31.980 And everyone just behaves like a complete moron. 321 00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:37.319 I mean, the whole thing is people sacrificing themselves for no reason at all. 322 00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:47.039 If they hadn't stood there explaining why they're sacrificing their lives, they could have all just gone into the TARDIS and they would have been fine. 323 00:28:47.099 --> 00:28:53.579 That's his bizarre scripting choice of playing out an entire emotional climax while people are valiantly holding a door closed. 324 00:28:53.819 --> 00:28:56.579 And she's still down the corridor. 325 00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:57.359 I just don't get it. 326 00:28:57.420 --> 00:28:58.259 I don't care. 327 00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:03.420 Yeah, sacrificing themselves, you know, on the metre of sacrificing yourself for no reason. 328 00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:06.299 It hardly meets Lexa in Neglos level. 329 00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:12.059 It normally says a bit of that and it's and it's poor. 330 00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:21.839 And I think one of the flaws, one of the things that the show runs away from, is not having 2 versions of the one person, even one of them having 2 versions of themselves surviving. 331 00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:26.819 Otherwise, it just ends up feeling like the ultimate episode of Get Smart, doesn't it? 332 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:30.599 How to finish 7 years of a run with multiple doors. 333 00:29:30.660 --> 00:29:30.900 Yeah. 334 00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:36.960 Maybe the doctor could have taken the ganger doctor and dropped it off on alternate world with rose. 335 00:29:37.019 --> 00:29:37.440 Here you go. 336 00:29:37.500 --> 00:29:38.279 There's choice of two. 337 00:29:40.019 --> 00:29:53.519 I mean, there is a kind of hint that the gangers are human in that they are prepared to sacrifice their lives. and so they're not monsters. 338 00:29:53.579 --> 00:29:55.619 Like they've decided not to be monsters. 339 00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:57.359 They've decided to be people. 340 00:29:57.420 --> 00:30:01.380 And one of the things that people do. 341 00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:09.420 And one of the things that we regard as incredibly meritorious is the choice to lay down your life to save someone. 342 00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:12.960 And so the fact that Ganga Cleaves does do that. 343 00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:18.599 I think kind of speaks to her humanity. certainly in a sort of Doctor Who context, at least. 344 00:30:18.660 --> 00:30:23.220 If only we could have believed from what we saw on screen that she needed to do it. 345 00:30:23.220 --> 00:30:25.680 Yeah, that's the problem, I think. 346 00:30:25.740 --> 00:30:26.579 That is the problem. 347 00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:31.980 But that's a flaw of the production or a flaw of the writing around that moment, if you know what I mean. 348 00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:35.880 Do you think there's a direction problem there, too, in that scene? 349 00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:36.839 Yes. 350 00:30:36.900 --> 00:30:48.900 Broadly speaking, like, not talking direction from a shot choice point of view, but there's a little bit of writing a little bit of direction, a little bit of the way it's put together, makes it, you know, you realise later, wait a minute, they didn't need to die. 351 00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:51.240 And I acknowledge that is a problem. 352 00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:59.339 It's just a problem of having just not thought through how that little sequence is going to work well enough and that's, that's a fault of a number of people, I think. 353 00:30:59.579 --> 00:31:06.420 Certainly, Dickon just deciding to close the door with himself on the other side of it is utterly baffling. 354 00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:12.779 That's actually the most the more ridiculous than the gang of doctor and gang of cleaves holding in the door chart. 355 00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:13.799 Yeah, absolutely. 356 00:31:13.859 --> 00:31:16.319 Especially because it was the other one that was going to be locked or something. 357 00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:18.240 Didn't he do that because he had to lock it. 358 00:31:18.299 --> 00:31:25.380 See, there's probably a missing line of dialogue where what's his face has to close the door from the other side in order to lock it properly. 359 00:31:25.500 --> 00:31:31.200 Yeah, but again, even putting them in a situation where that's the problem is kind of stupid. 360 00:31:31.259 --> 00:31:33.960 Like even if they'd managed to put that dialogue in there. 361 00:31:34.019 --> 00:31:37.259 It's kind of like, well, that seems an odd choice for a door. 362 00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:38.279 Why would you do that? 363 00:31:38.339 --> 00:31:38.940 You know? 364 00:31:39.299 --> 00:31:41.759 Todd should have been on this episode. 365 00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:51.599 And it doesn't help, of course, that we don't care about Dickon, you know. 366 00:31:51.660 --> 00:31:54.420 No, no, he's just generic potato person. 367 00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:56.519 And we don't care about doors. 368 00:31:56.579 --> 00:31:57.779 It's like terrible. 369 00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:02.220 I think the script is to blame, but also, yeah, the director fumbles things. 370 00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:04.440 I think it's part of the editing. 371 00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:18.779 I noticed last episode, the scene where Cleaves runs out the door from kind of the communal quarters is so loosely edited that you're not really sure where people are and like she, she runs from long shot sort of next to the community thing. 372 00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:20.039 Why did that shot last so long? 373 00:32:20.099 --> 00:32:22.859 It's really poorly paste in its shot structure. 374 00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:27.299 Well, I mean, Richard was talking about that last week, I think. 375 00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:27.960 Yeah. 376 00:32:34.019 --> 00:32:39.539 How do we feel about the final Monstery form of Jen? 377 00:32:41.099 --> 00:32:42.839 That's my reaction. 378 00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:47.519 Reminds me of the Mark Gaters Scorpion thing in the Lazarus. 379 00:32:47.579 --> 00:32:48.059 Oh, yeah, yeah. 380 00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:50.640 Yes Puzzling creative choice, perhaps. 381 00:32:50.700 --> 00:32:53.819 In fact, is that where we've seen the head thing come out? 382 00:32:53.819 --> 00:32:54.960 Because doesn't that happen in that as well? 383 00:32:55.019 --> 00:32:56.519 Like the earlier sequence in the bathroom? 384 00:32:56.759 --> 00:32:58.980 Also her giant mouth. 385 00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:02.099 I mean, she actually killed one of the human beings. 386 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:02.819 Yeah. 387 00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:20.700 Like, I actually think that the kind of uncomfortable grotesqueness of that actually works in the way, I think, that the Gatus, you know, scorpion monster sort of works in the Lazarus experiment. 388 00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:35.759 I do think it needs to kind of skirt making you laugh out loud at how terrible and ridiculous it is and also just sort of being this sort of uncomfortable thing about her physicality, I think. 389 00:33:35.819 --> 00:33:38.279 I think it works because it's not very long. 390 00:33:38.339 --> 00:33:46.799 Like it would have been tedious if she was like that multiple times throughout the 2nd episode or perished the thought through most of the 2nd episode. 391 00:33:46.859 --> 00:33:56.579 Where I think the Lazarix experiment one fails for me is that he's liked that for too long, whereas here it's just the climax and I think that would have been a better use of it. 392 00:33:56.700 --> 00:34:01.740 Is she a projection of Rory's libido, Rory's darkest desires. 393 00:34:02.099 --> 00:34:04.980 Speaking of unfortunate climax. 394 00:34:05.579 --> 00:34:16.500 She's the only one who does it apart from that kind of wonderful moment where Ganga Cleave turns a head around 180 degrees at some point. love that. 395 00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:22.800 I just wanted to vomit up human flesh like Jen did in the sink last week. 396 00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:26.159 Linda Blair's pea suit. 397 00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:29.039 I really like that final form of gen. 398 00:34:29.099 --> 00:34:31.079 I think it's quite unsettling. looks quite good. 399 00:34:31.139 --> 00:34:35.519 It's just a shame that the CG isn't quite up to it. which is you know, the story of these episodes. 400 00:34:35.820 --> 00:34:40.199 Was the mill on this one or had they'd left by now, hadn't they? 401 00:34:40.260 --> 00:34:42.719 No, I think the mill was still working on the show. 402 00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:43.199 Yeah. 403 00:34:43.559 --> 00:35:01.320 I do think that the decision to go HD, which was kind of inevitable for a TV production at this point, does actually kind of take its toll on some of the CG effects for a number of years, and I think we're still kind of feeling that. 404 00:35:01.380 --> 00:35:08.460 Certainly some CGFX look spectacular and the creation of environments and stuff is particularly successful generally. 405 00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:14.760 But sometimes CG creatures that kind of move their mouths and stuff like that don't quite work at this point. 406 00:35:14.820 --> 00:35:17.340 Yeah, you remember the 11th hour last year? 407 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:18.480 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 408 00:35:18.539 --> 00:35:19.139 Yeah. 409 00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:21.659 Although that was Olivia Coleman's own teeth. 410 00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:22.800 It was. 411 00:35:22.860 --> 00:35:27.659 There's a reason she's truly terrified, and that's why people keep employing. 412 00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:29.880 What was she doing? 413 00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:31.800 You just have to CG regular teeth in. 414 00:35:34.860 --> 00:35:38.579 Let's talk about the sort of end once we escape in the Tartars. 415 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:46.739 But I do think again, the blood clot in Cleaves's brain is just incredibly summarily dealt with. 416 00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:50.219 And in a way that sort of is a massive cheat. 417 00:35:50.219 --> 00:35:58.800 And it's kind of like particularly bad given that just a few weeks ago, the doctor couldn't revive Rory. 418 00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:02.400 And Amy had to, you know, do CPR on him. 419 00:36:02.460 --> 00:36:07.199 And now all you need is a little vial of kind of something that smells like burnt onions. 420 00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:09.179 Yeah, that's right. 421 00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:10.440 And we're all okay. 422 00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:13.920 And that was actually a slightly interesting thing. 423 00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:18.659 The moment where Cleaves tells other Cleaves, welcome to the human race. 424 00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:21.780 You've got an inoperable brain clot, you know, it sucks to be you. 425 00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:23.340 That's actually quite cool. 426 00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:25.019 It's the human race but not for long. 427 00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:27.840 It's also totally unnecessary. 428 00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:30.659 There's no suggestion that she's going to drop dead in the next 24 hours. 429 00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:32.099 It's a problem. 430 00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:33.360 She going to die at some point. 431 00:36:33.420 --> 00:36:35.340 Why did we need to save it? 432 00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:37.800 Why can't she just, well we don't know, she should die at some point. 433 00:36:37.860 --> 00:36:38.519 That just the way it goes. 434 00:36:38.579 --> 00:36:39.480 It's totally unnecessary. 435 00:36:39.539 --> 00:36:40.619 Yeah. 436 00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:52.380 And then we sort of stabilise Jimmy and Dick and, you know, just from the TARDIS's magical space reasons field and everything's going to be okay from now on, they can't turn into monsters even if they want to. 437 00:36:53.340 --> 00:36:56.159 All you needed was some ad fab dialogue. 438 00:36:56.219 --> 00:36:56.699 What's she doing? 439 00:36:56.760 --> 00:36:57.900 Just clearing a blockage, I think. 440 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:03.840 Yes, in fact, the stabilising thing of those two. 441 00:37:03.900 --> 00:37:06.300 It's almost like, is there, again, another missing. 442 00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:25.500 And when I say missing dialogue, I'm sometimes meaning like from an earlier draft or when they were doing the story idea and then they never ran with it, it was an idea at one point that eventually those ganger duplicates, even though they were made real by the solar storm, were going to eventually decay. you know what I mean? 443 00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:29.699 Because there are certain things that don't make sense unless something like that's gonna happen. 444 00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:35.280 I think the idea is that they can't turn into sort of giant lolloping monsters at some point. 445 00:37:35.340 --> 00:37:45.239 You know, they're stable in the sense that their heads won't turn around 180 degrees and like, you know, they won't be able to snake through toilet doors and stuff from now on. 446 00:37:45.300 --> 00:37:57.719 And we need to get Jimmy in particular to be sufficiently human because he's actually properly replacing Jimmy, who dies in a completely arbitrary way. 447 00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:01.679 He's going to raise a child. needs to give his son some acting lessons. 448 00:38:02.579 --> 00:38:04.860 So the sun is terrible. 449 00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:06.539 No, he's not terrible. 450 00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:10.260 He's just not very good. there is a range here. like 4 hours. 451 00:38:10.739 --> 00:38:13.079 Terence Dudley's children and survivors bad. 452 00:38:13.139 --> 00:38:14.639 Yeah, I think we are too. 453 00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:24.179 Well, certainly, we had a child actor who was probably about 14 a couple of weeks ago in Curse of the Black Spot, who was actually very good indeed. 454 00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:29.940 And it might have been an idea to make Adam just a little bit older. 455 00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:35.579 And I guess that's where the story properly resolves itself, isn't it? 456 00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:49.920 Where Ganger Jimmy can actually properly replace Jimmy, that Ganger Jimmy is Adam's father, every bit as much as Jimmy was, and both of them acknowledge it. 457 00:38:49.980 --> 00:38:53.280 Um, I think it's that's actually properly good. 458 00:38:53.340 --> 00:38:55.500 That's a resolution to the problem. 459 00:38:55.559 --> 00:39:08.460 The problem is that these people suddenly became something that was no longer a human being that had the potential to be a monster and that that Jimmy rejects that. 460 00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:13.679 In fact, you know, it's not Rory that rescues them from the locked room at all. 461 00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:22.079 It is Ganga Jimmy because Ganga Jimmy goes, oh my god, my son's father is in that room and he needs to be rescued. 462 00:39:22.139 --> 00:39:25.619 And I do think that that actually works really quiet well. 463 00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:26.820 Yes, it does. 464 00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:29.099 I mean the whole thing's a bit perfunctory. 465 00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:32.099 He dies in a completely kind of random accident and stuff. 466 00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:37.260 He gets acid on him and something and an 80 yard line from that. 467 00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:41.699 The character's last moment is his one character beat through the 2 episodes, but you know. 468 00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:43.380 Yeah, yeah. 469 00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:46.500 Like, I think that that is a properly good resolution of things. 470 00:39:46.559 --> 00:40:03.900 But I I just think there's a problem politically, which I I kind of hinted at last week, which is that everyone needs to settle down about being mistreated and just kind of go in and resolve it with a nice conversation with management. 471 00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:12.300 Um, and the, the idea to go, like the idea to go full ood and start killing people from marketing. 472 00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:14.039 That's the wrong approach. 473 00:40:14.219 --> 00:40:16.440 Acting, though, it is. 474 00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:24.119 And I think that that's a shame, given that this is Doctor Who and everything should be sort of, you know, a bit heightened. 475 00:40:24.179 --> 00:40:25.800 I couldn't agree more. 476 00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:36.000 Yeah, and given the kind of oppression to which the flesh has been subjected, there's 10s of 1000000s of them in India, you know, we get that. 477 00:40:36.059 --> 00:40:52.139 There's 1000000s and 1000000s of these gangers around the world that are being repeatedly kind of melted and then reconstituted, and they feel it and they suffer, and that it's regarded as monstrous and illegitimate for them to strike back. 478 00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:55.800 They just have to turn up at a board meeting and everything will be okay. 479 00:40:56.519 --> 00:41:13.260 The difficulty, though, is, is that these gangers here have been, you know, made into real people by the solar storm, whereas the ones, the 10s of 1000000s of them in India, and the Amy that is melted in the TARS at the end, are still connected to their originals. 480 00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:14.099 Right? 481 00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:20.699 Although, isn't there the feeling that the big pool has actually achieved sentience? 482 00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:21.059 Exactly. 483 00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:24.239 But the pool as a whole, perhaps, right? 484 00:41:24.300 --> 00:41:25.679 Rather than the individuals. 485 00:41:25.739 --> 00:41:30.719 And the individuals only became the individuals when they fully adopted the lives of the people they're duplicated. 486 00:41:30.780 --> 00:41:33.900 I suppose what I'm trying to say is, I think you're not necessarily wrong. 487 00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:39.300 I'm just trying to say you're not necessarily right because I think it's deliberately muddy and murky. 488 00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:58.199 That's sort of one of the things we're sort of questioning is, you know, when did they, when did the ganger become an individual rather than a piece of a larger slab of goo, which, yes, we have to look after or we have to do something we have to improve the conditions of because the goo is sent into and is feeling the pain every time they did commission, blah, blah, blah. 489 00:41:58.260 --> 00:42:00.420 But it's not as custom dried as that. 490 00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:05.760 I get what you're saying about the fact that, you know, you want a bit more of a revolution going on, but that's kind of a different story. 491 00:42:05.820 --> 00:42:07.800 If you're going to do that, that's episode three. 492 00:42:07.860 --> 00:42:19.199 Like, you can't tell, they're not going to, they're not going to walk out of the TARDIS, get their automatic rifles and barge through the door into the press conference and mow down all of the humans. you know what I mean? 493 00:42:19.260 --> 00:42:20.579 It's not going to work like that. 494 00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:22.559 It's a different story. 495 00:42:22.619 --> 00:42:33.840 And so I think the way to resolve this story, rather than hiding the fact that you're the ganger, Jimmy, and pretending that, you know, everything's fine, you actually say, no, no, no, I am the ganger, and I am going to still need a normal life now. 496 00:42:33.900 --> 00:42:35.099 Do you know what I mean? 497 00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:37.380 As I say, I think I think it's deliberately ambiguous. 498 00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:38.940 So I mean, I think you're right. 499 00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:48.300 And one of the things that I do like about this episode is the fact that the scene with Amy at the end, where we've just had this big fight for kind of, you know, ganger independence and all of that. 500 00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:53.820 The doctor is fine with melting her down because she is not one of those kinds of gangers. 501 00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:55.980 She is just basically a skin suit. 502 00:42:56.039 --> 00:43:00.960 And so even though I don't think it's narratively that clear, the murkiness does add something to it. 503 00:43:01.019 --> 00:43:04.019 Yeah, it's not an allegory or anything like that. 504 00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:05.219 It's hinting at things. 505 00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:10.679 And I and I do think that it does associate the desire for revolution with becoming a monster. 506 00:43:10.860 --> 00:43:14.639 Like I just, I don't like that quite so much. 507 00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:31.320 So, let's talk about melting Amy down because I think. 508 00:43:31.860 --> 00:43:33.960 Only Todd was here. 509 00:43:35.219 --> 00:43:39.719 I think that that scene is actually really quite uncomfortable to watch. 510 00:43:39.780 --> 00:43:41.820 Oh, it's horribly on Doctor Who. 511 00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:43.019 Yeah, yeah. 512 00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:44.579 It's really unpleasant, isn't it? 513 00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:50.760 Yeah, it's a real world intrusion of body horror in a way that I don't think the show has ever done before. 514 00:43:50.820 --> 00:43:52.019 It is. 515 00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:54.539 Even before she wakes up in the tube. 516 00:43:54.599 --> 00:44:06.059 You have the doctor being horrible to her all of a sudden and her being frightened and forcing Rory to step away from her and leave her isolated. 517 00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:08.460 And Rory does that as well. 518 00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:19.500 I mean, there's, is there an in-story reason like maybe gangers go crazy when you, or something like he expects some danger from the ganger because we've seen the... doesn't want me to melt it down at the same time by accident. 519 00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:20.159 Maybe. 520 00:44:20.219 --> 00:44:23.699 I think he doesn't want Rory to ruin his clothes. 521 00:44:23.820 --> 00:44:26.699 Or was that about fetching a towel, Nathan? 522 00:44:27.780 --> 00:44:36.539 Part of the problem, I think, is that it's another one of those situations where Karen is too good an actor for the scene. 523 00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:40.619 And I was talking to a friend of the podcast, Joe Ford last night. 524 00:44:40.619 --> 00:44:55.739 And I compared it to, you know, the scene where Perry C's Shara's Jack's face and then screams and, you know, and Shara's Jack screams and runs under the table and stuff. 525 00:44:55.800 --> 00:45:08.820 And one of the problems with Caves of Andrazani is that Perry is so convincingly frightened that it makes the thing too real and a bit like not quite comic book enough. 526 00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:18.300 And I think that's the problem here, seeing Karen being convincingly scared in this situation is actually quite upsetting, I think. 527 00:45:18.539 --> 00:45:23.039 And it's not the scariness of on being pursued by monsters. 528 00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:26.519 It's the scariness of why are my friends treating me in this awful way. 529 00:45:26.579 --> 00:45:27.420 Yeah. 530 00:45:27.420 --> 00:45:28.079 Yeah. 531 00:45:28.139 --> 00:45:47.519 I think, though, that, I mean, maybe it's just a question of, you know, what we think Doctor Who is, but I think it's okay to be pushing those boundaries and, you know, you can talk about whether that sequence in, say, case of understanding goes a little bit too far, but it's one of the reasons why I think that story is so brilliant because it is so real, those sequences. 532 00:45:47.579 --> 00:45:50.340 And I don't think we should be afraid to eventually. 533 00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:53.940 I think I think comic book is not something that I want Doctor Who to be, really. 534 00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:55.320 Maybe that's where we differ. 535 00:45:55.380 --> 00:45:59.760 No, I'm actually, I'm actually fine with what we see on screen up to that point. 536 00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:00.780 I think it's uncomfortable. 537 00:46:00.900 --> 00:46:03.599 I think what comes after crosses the line quite significantly. 538 00:46:03.659 --> 00:46:13.019 Okay, so is it the fact, is it the fact that she turns into a pile of goo, rather that if, say, she was an android and her face fell off, you know, would that be okay? 539 00:46:13.139 --> 00:46:17.519 Would that be better then dissolving it? 540 00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:18.420 Yeah, well... 541 00:46:18.420 --> 00:46:20.760 Well, no, from this point of view, originally. 542 00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:26.460 Very much so, because we've already explored that the simulacra of the flesh is that it is us. 543 00:46:26.519 --> 00:46:36.480 And the doctor presages it nicely in, I think, episode one or this one, it's all a blanc mange to me, when he says, I wanted to go and see the flesh in its earliest days. 544 00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:48.059 So again, I'm thinking, Mr. Moffat, why did we not have a part 3 and 4 of this when we explore the flesh as its own separate, I suppose, because it would have been tedious. 545 00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:49.440 Yes, by mercy. 546 00:46:49.860 --> 00:46:54.780 Yeah, as another race, because it's kind of, that's where we're going with this. 547 00:46:54.840 --> 00:47:00.539 And if this is going to have any stability as a storyline itself, as I mean, as if it's going to stand on its own. 548 00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:06.239 And I think we've all identified that perhaps it doesn't, then it needs to continue. 549 00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:13.980 Because otherwise, yes, as Simon says, how is it okay to melt Delia Smith putting pond? 550 00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:21.960 Yeah, perhaps there's an exothermic reaction and Rory would have been nastily scalded had he stood too close to the hot milk? 551 00:47:22.019 --> 00:47:38.880 I think part of the problem is that we have spent 2 episodes exploring the fact that gangers are real people and even though there are space reasons why Amy's not the same, that's not quite enough to prevent it from being unpleasant. 552 00:47:38.940 --> 00:47:39.719 Yeah. 553 00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:42.300 It's too high concept to wrap up like this. 554 00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:45.780 You can't have it each way and they try to. 555 00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:46.380 Yeah. 556 00:47:46.380 --> 00:47:47.099 Yeah. 557 00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:50.219 And then, of course, there's a scene where she wakes up in that tunnel. 558 00:47:50.579 --> 00:47:53.519 That's the bit that I find truly icky. 559 00:47:53.639 --> 00:47:55.440 Yeah, something cheers. 560 00:47:55.500 --> 00:48:05.519 So basically the arc of the season is that a pregnant companion was kidnapped from the doctor held in a nightmare hospital until she comes to term and then has to deliver her baby to her captors. 561 00:48:05.579 --> 00:48:06.659 That's just a bit gross. 562 00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:11.460 That's when Mr. Moffat lost me in Doctor Who at the time. 563 00:48:11.579 --> 00:48:15.420 I found that absolutely, it was worse than anything that had been done to Sarah Jones. 564 00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:20.460 Yes, I think that's absolutely right It puts being blinded and falling down some stairs into perspective. 565 00:48:20.460 --> 00:48:20.940 Yeah. 566 00:48:21.059 --> 00:48:21.960 I still prefer it, yeah. 567 00:48:22.019 --> 00:48:22.500 Yeah. 568 00:48:22.500 --> 00:48:27.119 Look, I think I think it's a massive problem. 569 00:48:27.179 --> 00:48:35.340 It's something that we addressed last season finale when we talked about Amy being shot to death by Rory. 570 00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:38.519 And I think that that falls on the right side of the line. 571 00:48:38.579 --> 00:48:39.300 It's not great. 572 00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:40.260 Do you know what I mean? 573 00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:43.380 But Doctor Who is scary and people get shot and terrible things happen. 574 00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:45.420 And that's part of the deal. 575 00:48:45.539 --> 00:48:52.320 But here I think, and I think it has something to do with the fact that it's around pregnancy. 576 00:48:53.219 --> 00:48:58.019 And that there seems to be this uncomfortable suggestion. 577 00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:06.719 There's something weird that it reveals about Stephen Moffatt's attitude to pregnancy in a way. 578 00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:26.039 It's, it's, I think it's kind of uncomfortable and I think it's something that the show shouldn't really be attempting. touches it touches on some very broad business that's going on with control of women's reproduction in the world and I don't think it should have gone there. 579 00:49:26.099 --> 00:49:27.059 Yeah, yeah. 580 00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:37.860 Yeah, I'm inclined to agree that I think I wish it had gone there, but given that it did, I didn't have a particular problem with it, and I certainly don't have a kind of problem that you're sort of having with it. 581 00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:46.559 Now, I sort of saw it more as a rosemary's baby sort of thing, that the evil people, because remember the people at the other side, they're evil. 582 00:49:46.619 --> 00:49:47.699 She's wearing an eye patch. 583 00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:48.360 Of course she's evil. 584 00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:51.000 She's Francis Barber. 585 00:49:51.059 --> 00:49:51.960 For God's sake, of course. 586 00:49:53.219 --> 00:49:55.079 Or Nicholas, Courtney, and Inferno. 587 00:49:55.500 --> 00:50:06.000 I think what's supposed to be going on is that they're effectively, you know, using Amy Zassarigate in order to get a baby that they can make, you know, the evil emperor of the universe or whatever it is. 588 00:50:06.059 --> 00:50:10.619 I mean, you know, the story will unfold, but that was my take on it. 589 00:50:10.739 --> 00:50:12.780 And yes, it's it's cruel, it's a bit awful. 590 00:50:12.840 --> 00:50:16.019 It's a bit icky and all that, and it's a bit, should they have done that? 591 00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:19.380 But it's kind of happening in front of me and I went with it. 592 00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:29.820 I think we are going to discover in 2 episodes time that Moffatt is capable of recognising things that Doctor Who can't deal with. 593 00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:33.719 And it's kind of the centrepiece of that episode. 594 00:50:34.139 --> 00:50:41.639 But here, I think that this is something that Doctor Who can't deal with satisfactorily. 595 00:50:41.699 --> 00:50:52.860 And I remember actually being a bit queasy when I 1st watched The Impossible Astronaut and Amy told the doctor that she was pregnant. 596 00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:56.219 And I just thought, how can this show even do this? 597 00:50:56.280 --> 00:50:57.420 Do you know what I mean? 598 00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:00.539 How can we now put Amy in danger every week? 599 00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:02.280 Like, how does this even play out? 600 00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:05.039 And also kind of why is it happening? 601 00:51:05.099 --> 00:51:15.059 It's all just a little bit kind of, well, the 1st important stage in a woman's life is marriage and this. 602 00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:18.659 Yeah, this season is going to be about her trying to avoid her marriage. 603 00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:24.300 Now the next thing that we can think of for the female companion is pregnancy. 604 00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:34.199 And so there's a kind of sort of unpleasantly essentialist thing to turn her into a kind of baby making device. 605 00:51:34.260 --> 00:51:38.940 That's interesting because I think and thought the opposite. 606 00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:56.400 I thought, well, actually, isn't that interesting and refreshing because isn't the whole point of, you know, what we're trying to do on this issue is to suggest that when a woman gets pregnant, she doesn't have to sort of shut herself away for 9 months plus that, you know, she can carry on and be a working woman and so on. 607 00:51:56.460 --> 00:51:57.000 Do you know what I mean? 608 00:51:57.059 --> 00:52:01.980 I think there's something going to the office is not the same as, you know, throwing yourself in front of aliens every week. 609 00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:02.400 Agreed. 610 00:52:02.460 --> 00:52:08.280 But nevertheless, you have to acknowledge that she's got the right to still lead her life the way she chooses. 611 00:52:08.340 --> 00:52:09.780 Of course, of course. 612 00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:18.300 But what we actually do discover is that she's immediately stuffed in a tube and just turned into a sort of incubator for... 613 00:52:18.360 --> 00:52:18.900 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 614 00:52:18.900 --> 00:52:21.300 And, like, I think it's deeply uncomfortable. 615 00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:23.159 Do you know what it reminded me of? 616 00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:26.639 Angel, you know, the series Angel. 617 00:52:26.699 --> 00:52:43.500 So, um, in the 3rd series, Dala becomes pregnant and Dala is basically going to give birth to this, Angel's baby, um, and she she starts to go mad because the baby has a soul, and so it's making her go mad, and she ends up staking herself so that the baby can live. 618 00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:44.699 And that's fine. 619 00:52:44.760 --> 00:52:47.639 That's all science fiction because she's, you know, she's a vampire. 620 00:52:47.699 --> 00:52:48.539 So we get away with that. 621 00:52:48.599 --> 00:52:49.260 It's fine. 622 00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:58.559 The next series, they make Cordelia, one of our regulars pregnant, and basically put the devil spawn inside her, and that's deeply uncomfortable because it's Cordelia. 623 00:52:58.860 --> 00:53:07.440 And we also know why narratively that happened because she was fighting with Joss Whedon, who was a predatory presence on set. 624 00:53:07.500 --> 00:53:08.340 Yeah. 625 00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:10.800 Yeah, it's as dark as it looks. 626 00:53:10.860 --> 00:53:11.219 Yeah. 627 00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:28.800 All right, so this is part two of a two part story, and that can only mean picks of the week, gentlemen. 628 00:53:28.860 --> 00:53:31.679 Well, I can go 1st because I've got one ready. 629 00:53:31.739 --> 00:53:39.840 And that is, I'd like to recommend a film from 2009 called Moon, starring Sam Rockwell. 630 00:53:39.900 --> 00:53:50.940 It's very difficult to say why it's my pick of the week based on this story, so I would just without giving too much away, but I would just encourage you to watch it. 631 00:53:51.059 --> 00:53:57.659 It's a great science fiction film and it's kind of harder science fiction, but not sort of meaning boring. 632 00:53:57.719 --> 00:53:59.400 It is relatively slow paced. 633 00:53:59.460 --> 00:54:06.539 There aren't very many characters in it, spoiler alert, but it's a lovely, gentle film. and really, really well made. 634 00:54:06.599 --> 00:54:16.679 It's also very hauntingly uses the 2nd slow movement from Mozart's flute and harp concerto rather in the way that 2001 uses the Blue Danube walls. 635 00:54:16.739 --> 00:54:19.019 It's very elegant and I thoroughly recommend it. 636 00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:21.599 Apparently, its working title was egg. 637 00:54:21.659 --> 00:54:25.860 I hope it wasn't that was also the working title of Kill the Moon. 638 00:54:28.980 --> 00:54:32.099 My pick of the week is going to be the good fight. 639 00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:44.340 It's a series in its 6th season about an African-American law firm in Chicago, and I wanted to choose it because it's so far from the, as Nathan said earlier, perfunctoriness of this ganger's 2 parter. 640 00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:48.599 I actually watched them back to back, um, the good fight and this, and there was no contest. 641 00:54:48.659 --> 00:55:00.239 Unlike so much recent drama, it kind of faced up to, and lived in a world where Trump was president, and it's clever and it's nimble, and it's whimsical, um, as much as gangers is leaden. 642 00:55:00.300 --> 00:55:10.800 It has superb performances from people like Niambi and Iambi and Audra McDonald, who has 6 Tony Awards, go figure, and also the eternally fabulous Christine Baranski. 643 00:55:10.860 --> 00:55:12.960 So stop whatever you're doing and go and watch it. 644 00:55:13.139 --> 00:55:14.760 Richard? 645 00:55:15.179 --> 00:55:20.820 I love Moon as well, and it was actually on my list for all of the reasons. 646 00:55:20.940 --> 00:55:22.500 Interestingly, that Simon said. 647 00:55:22.500 --> 00:55:24.599 I'm glad you did. 648 00:55:24.900 --> 00:55:28.079 It reflects the times we've been in this year. 649 00:55:28.139 --> 00:55:34.980 It's beautifully directed Davey Jones, who, of course, we've got, I'm trying to remember his name, actually, the director. 650 00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:35.639 Duncan. 651 00:55:35.699 --> 00:55:37.559 Duncan is, of course, David Bowie's son. 652 00:55:37.619 --> 00:55:49.559 And so the budget was not really a problem, but it, it was still a small budget thing that uses unrealised designs by Ron Cobb and Macquarie. 653 00:55:49.619 --> 00:55:56.460 So designs from Alien and other productions that they hadn't been able to use their artwork for. 654 00:55:56.519 --> 00:56:03.900 So for a fanboy, it's got some really lovely 70s, high notes in it, even if you just watch a film from a design point of view. 655 00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:10.440 And it's really stunningly beautifully done of what it is to be a person on their own and how that's explored. 656 00:56:10.500 --> 00:56:18.599 I really do want to talk about, um, and I won't do it for long, but, um, Cousinsev's 1964 Hamlet, we touched on that. 657 00:56:18.659 --> 00:56:25.380 It's the music is Shostakovich, and I'm sure Simon might agree with me that it's used really well in the production. 658 00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:32.639 It's just a really lovely piece if you want to look at water crashing against ancient stone walls on an island. 659 00:56:34.619 --> 00:56:41.699 It feels it feels to me as what this might have been had they just been a bit more creative with the camera work. 660 00:56:41.760 --> 00:57:00.659 And I do feel that just as Simon's choice, Moon is so supported by the production values and by the sensitivity of the skills that he used to make it, that this story we've just watched might in fact, we would have felt better about it had it just had a bit more time spent on it. 661 00:57:00.719 --> 00:57:04.739 I'm not sure about that actually, because we've revealed some really deep flaws in this. 662 00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:06.840 Might have been better with a few laughs as well. 663 00:57:06.900 --> 00:57:09.840 Had all the raucous wit of a space 1999 episode. 664 00:57:12.659 --> 00:57:16.860 All right, I'm going to take a desperately lowbrow. 665 00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:26.159 I am secretly a massive fan of Star Trek, and particularly Kurtzman Star Trek, which a lot of people hate. and their hate keeps me alive. 666 00:57:26.519 --> 00:57:28.739 It sustains you. 667 00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:46.739 I have really enjoyed Lower Decks, which is the comedy, cartoon, Star Trek, that's been released as one of the sort of suite of Star Trek series that we're currently enjoying. 668 00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:54.539 It is a marvellous, wonderful parody of Star Trek while still being in the Star Trek universe. 669 00:57:54.599 --> 00:58:03.840 It creates real proper Star Trek episodes so that are genuinely funny, that are character driven and, you know, insanely violent. 670 00:58:03.900 --> 00:58:08.880 It's really, really terribly good and I highly recommend it. 671 00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:10.079 Yay. 672 00:58:10.139 --> 00:58:12.000 It's really well written, yeah. 673 00:58:12.059 --> 00:58:13.320 Yeah, really well written. 674 00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:13.800 Very good. 675 00:58:39.420 --> 00:58:43.019 Well, listen, that's all we have time for this week. 676 00:58:43.139 --> 00:58:51.719 We'll be back next week to wrap everything up in a completely satisfying and totally non upsetting way in a good man goes to war. 677 00:58:52.139 --> 00:59:08.519 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook at FTE podcast on Twitter and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll be able to find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger and Jody into Terra. 678 00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:16.260 Until next time, remember that the thing about a board meeting is that there are almost never enough guillotines available. 679 00:59:16.320 --> 00:59:17.760 So be prepared. 680 00:59:17.820 --> 00:59:20.460 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 681 00:59:20.519 --> 00:59:21.599 Good night. 682 00:59:21.659 --> 00:59:22.980 Good night. 683 00:59:23.099 --> 00:59:23.940 Good then. 684 00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:32.880 That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffith, Simon Moore, and Richard Stone. 685 00:59:32.940 --> 00:59:35.159 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lam. 686 00:59:35.219 --> 00:59:42.000 This episode, Generic Potato Person, was recorded on the 15th of August 2021 and released on the 17th of October. 687 00:59:42.719 --> 00:59:56.400 If yesterday's Doctor Who Trail has piqued her excitement for Series 13, you'll be even more excited to learn that in just over two weeks, we'll be back with our undercooked reactions to the series, at Jodi Interterterra. 688 00:59:56.400 --> 01:00:01.980 Available now at Jodi Interterra.com and wherever good podcasts can be found. 689 01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:08.699 I'm going very Marxist in my intros and outros. 690 01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:09.599 Yes, you are. 691 01:00:09.659 --> 01:00:10.500 Oh, good. 692 01:00:10.500 --> 01:00:12.300 Only now. 693 01:00:13.260 --> 01:00:19.739 I have to say that was a camp high points of the episode where, you know, they're talking about, well, you have to convince the board. 694 01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:27.599 And so then they open this door and there's suddenly the hubbub of press and some flashes and people shout questions at them and then they close the door and it all goes away. 695 01:00:27.659 --> 01:00:30.000 There's 1000s of them out there, sir. 696 01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:32.519 So bad. 697 01:00:32.579 --> 01:00:33.300 All right. 698 01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:37.079 Does everyone want to press some stop and send me their thing? 699 01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:38.940 Okay, stop.