WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:35:31

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast operated by miniaturised cross

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people.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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I'm Simon and I'm Kevin.

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Well, it's been a few weeks since the doctor started his search

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for Melody Pond, and so I guess it's time to check in on his

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progress.

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And while we're at it, we've got a time machine, a Zoom call, and

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a deadly pandemic.

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So what the hell?

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Let's kill Hitler.

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Kevin, you are on record saying that, um, this is one of your

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favourite series, am I right?

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It's my absolute favourite series.

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Hands down.

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It's massive comfort spot.

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I love the ambition.

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I don't love every episode in it, but to me, the best Doctor Who

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series.

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Don't have to have every episode not get out of the park.

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They have to have an overall energy and overall ambition, an

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overall sense of meaning to them that I vibe with, and this one

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really hits the spot for me.

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How do you feel it sort of fits into the season then in that

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sense?

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This episode?

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Yeah.

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I mean, I think it's exactly what's needed after a couple months

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away and an episode as big as a good man goes to war.

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It's just fun.

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It's cosy.

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It reminds you of why you love every single one of these

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characters.

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Even while it shows river, especially in a totally different way.

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And I just think it's a wonderful opener and a wonderful time.

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Certainly with casual fans I interact with, they usually regard

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this very well because it's just a very, very fun time.

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Just witticisms off the charts.

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I think we found last week that Goodman goes to war, we sort of

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found that a little bit strange just because there were a lot of

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elements and arc things that were happening, but that in a way it

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didn't seem to cohere quite into a story.

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Oh, I rewatched it this morning and loved it.

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So I'm going to have to disagree there.

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I actually found that I enjoyed it much more than I thought I

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would on the rewatch.

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And again, it is that thing where Moffatt's just, you know, like

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able to do things with dialogue that are just extraordinary.

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And that's definitely on show here.

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I think this is as funny as Doctor Who has ever been, I think.

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And I think also that it does have things to say about kind of

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Doctor Who as a show.

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And that was definitely the case last week, but there's some stuff

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like that in here today as well.

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Shall we start with the opening?

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Oh, I'm a big fan of that scene.

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So when I 1st watched this, you know, tiny little teenager

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thinking I know everything.

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I just see this red sports car race up through the crop circle

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which is itself, you know, amazing visual, great way to say, we're

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back.

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And I just thought, oh, it's river.

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Hell yeah.

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And someone else steps out, who's not river?

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And I'm like, That seems like a river thing to do.

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Yeah, I actually think she's incredibly well cast in that

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personification that she has. does ooze river.

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Like, it's completely consistent with the person we already know.

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It's amazing how confident Moffatt is to hide it in plain sight as

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well.

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You know, we're off hunting formality.

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And this time, things reverse from the season opener for series 6

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where the doctor is trying to attract Rory and Amy's attention by

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doing ridiculous things through history.

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And now they're trying to attract the doctor's attention by doing

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something big and showy that makes it into the paper.

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And so having them actually arrive in the middle of the crop

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circle and the doctor has already seen it, the moment that they

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finish, he gets out with a newspaper that is yellowed.

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So it's a really old copy of tomorrow's newspaper.

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And we get to look at it before we notice the line across the crop

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circle, which we didn't see.

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And that the 2nd that they noticed that.

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The 2nd that Rory notices it in the paper.

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We hear the sound of the car actually arriving to make it.

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And people kind of complain that Moffatt leans into time travel

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too heavily and, you know, has things happening in the wrong order

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and stuff like that.

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But when it's as enjoyable as this, how can you possibly

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complain?

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It is very cleverly done and the good open.

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I want my show to be less interesting please.

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Too much fun.

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Yeah, less camp, sexy women.

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Less of that.

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We don't need that in the wrong.

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Why do people say that it leans into the time travel team?

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I don't get that because it's part of the cleverness.

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Yeah, I think so.

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I mean, I think, you know, for most of the show's history, the

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Tartars has just been the thing that gets you into the story

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and...

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Yeah, yeah.

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And sometimes in the 80s, the TARDIS actually starts to be a part

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of the thing and we'll get travels in the TARDIS inside stories

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you know, which is actually a sort of a new thing once it starts

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happening in the show's history.

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And now you have Moffat, who, you know, we talked about in a

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Christmas carol, he uses the TARDIS to create a flashback so that

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the thing that's functionally a flashback in the story is actually

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happening in real time.

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Moffatt's default mode for storytelling is telling things out of

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order.

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He does it all the way through coupling, for instance.

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And now he has the TARDIS, which lets him do it even more.

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And I just think it works incredibly well.

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And speaking of his default mode of coupling.

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That's all over here because his other default mode is to be glib

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and silly as hell.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So now he's got the cheapest way ever to just throw time travel in

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for a joke and he runs with it.

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Yeah.

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Like, is this is this the 1st time he's done a comedy episode?

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Well, look, I think that probably there are episodes like Amy's

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choice last year that had incredibly funny dialogue all the way

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through and were written by a sitcom writer, like Simon Nye, but

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it's not in any sense a comedy episode.

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So I think this is probably as comedic as he's gone, but certainly

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even... the 1st full-blown one, yeah.

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But even last week, there was just hilarious dialogue all the way

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through.

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And I actually find myself the Don.

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Yes.

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Well, I actually find myself writing notes as I'm watching the

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episode, but then eventually with a Moffat episode, I'm just sort

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of copying and pasting whole kind of tracks of dialogue from the

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transcript into my notes so that I don't forget them because he is

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a sitcom writer.

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It's actually a great thing to have a sitcom writer in charge of

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the show when he's as clever and as sympathetic to Doctor Who, I

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think, as Stephen Moffatt is.

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Did you recognise what the car was?

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is that?

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It's a prince reference.

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It's a little red Corvette.

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That scene, that seems actually the last scene that was filmed for

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this series.

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It was filmed about 2 months after the rest of the series had

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wrapped because they needed to wait for the corn to get to the

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right height.

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I thought it was.

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Yeah, well that would make sense.

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I was imagining Teresa May running across it, you know, and

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constantly interrupting filming and perhaps that was the problem.

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Oh, one more thing about the opener.

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How great does Matt's new coat look?

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I feel like everyone forgets the green coat exists, but it looks

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wonderful.

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Yeah, you see, this is for me is when they start introducing that

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coat.

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See, I like the neatness of the original outfit.

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I find, and we get this later when Clara joins, where he starts to

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become that Paul McGann-esque kind of Edwardian sort of outfit.

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I hit the purple.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I am such a fan.

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I am such a fan of his original outfit.

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They did nail it, yeah.

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I just feel it.

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I feel it just goes downhill.

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Every alteration they make is a bad one for me.

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Fair.

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So, yeah, then we go into this sort of comedy flashback and it's

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got real kind of ab fab vibes.

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Do you remember the scene in series one of Abfab where Patsy and

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Eddie and a 3rd guy are being sort of hauled up before the before

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the principal?

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Yes, of course.

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And, you know, they're young.

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Like, I think that the kids here, and we already have Caitlin

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Blackwood available to play Amy with her sort of new Amy hair, and

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so that's okay.

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And now we have a new Rory and we have another Mel's.

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And all of them, I think, are really good.

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Like child actors are always a potential problem, but I'm not

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embarrassed by any of these.

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And then all of them sort of playing sort of slightly young

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versions of themselves as well, I think, is just terrifically

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great.

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Not being middle-aged at that point helps.

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It's just they're written really well as kids.

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You don't always get great kid writing, but you get here where

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like, for example, Mel's and Amy talking about why Mel's is always

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in trouble and she's like, you're almost in trouble as much as the

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boys.

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And she's like, what about you?

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I count as a boy.

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That's that's how kids talk.

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It's great.

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I just love they they don't tell Rory that the hide and seek is

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over or like whatever, like that sort of horribly dismissive.

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I feel so sorry for the fact that she assumes that he's gay for

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their entire childhoods because he's motherly in love with her and

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following her around.

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And not looking at any other girls.

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So a fun thing for that for me is it never says he never showed

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interest in any guys, just that the only woman he ever showed in

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Justin was Amy. there's room to play there.

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Do we think this is partly solving the rather unfortunate problem

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at the end of a good man goes to war where we realise that Amy and

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Rory miss out on the chance to raise their daughter, and that's

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sort of retrospectively solved by the, well, actually they grew up

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at the same time as their daughter.

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So that's sort of okay.

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I don't think it makes up for it, but do you think that's supposed

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to be saying that?

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I don't think it's trying to make up for it, but it's trying to be

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a version of it, yeah.

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Oh, I mean, Moffat has gone on record as saying that exactly why

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he wrote it that way, was to try and lessen the, you know, horror

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the impact of what had happened at the end of the midseason

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finale.

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The other thing I was going to ask about that was, do we feel that

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time has been rewritten?

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Do we feel that?

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You know, there's that reference to the fact that you weren't at

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the wedding?

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Wait, you weren't at the wedding?

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Where have you been all this time?

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And it's like, oh, I've always been here.

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I don't like weddings and so on like that.

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I mean, it's an episode called Let's Kill Hitler.

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I think it's pretty much outright, just flouncing into the room

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and saying, we're just changing everything.

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It's fun.

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Roll with it.

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You're gonna have a good time.

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No, no, I don't mean, no, I don't mean changing everything from

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the point of view of, you know, the writers changing the history

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of the show.

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I mean, from the point of view of, you know, rivers, abduction or

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melodies, abduction, in story, in story rewriting it, rewriting

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history.

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I 100% believe that's how it is, yeah.

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Yep, yep.

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See, I kind of would have loved it if Mel's had always been a

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00:12:29.879 --> 00:12:33.419
minor character in the series the last year and a half .

253
00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:37.379
And then it's revealed that actually she's their daughter as

254
00:12:37.379 --> 00:12:37.679
well.

255
00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:39.360
That would have been kind of good.

256
00:12:39.419 --> 00:12:41.639
That would have required too much forethought, right?

257
00:12:41.700 --> 00:12:44.220
Yeah, I think this is being sort of done on the fly in a way.

258
00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:48.480
I actually think that one of the things that Moffat does, and he

259
00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:51.960
very clearly does it to the doctor, but he also does it to Amy and

260
00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.259
Rory here by introducing a best friend that we've never heard of

261
00:12:55.379 --> 00:13:00.539
is that he is separating the show from the lies of the

262
00:13:00.539 --> 00:13:01.139
characters.

263
00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:05.580
So when we were watching Doctor Who, classic Doctor Who as

264
00:13:05.580 --> 00:13:08.940
children, we just assumed that the doctor was a person to whom all

265
00:13:08.940 --> 00:13:11.340
these things were happening in a sequence.

266
00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:14.759
And that sort of continues into the RTD era where the doctor kind

267
00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:18.960
of seems to age a year every season, as if these were all things

268
00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:20.759
that were just happening to the doctor in order.

269
00:13:20.820 --> 00:13:25.080
And Moffat is very keen to stop doing that.

270
00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:29.580
And to say, no, what you're seeing are adventures with this

271
00:13:29.580 --> 00:13:33.960
character in it, what this show isn't seeking to portray is the

272
00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:34.919
life of this character.

273
00:13:34.980 --> 00:13:39.179
And so we get the jump of several 100 years at the beginning of

274
00:13:39.179 --> 00:13:40.200
the series.

275
00:13:40.259 --> 00:13:45.840
We get him spending longer on the planet Christmas than he'd been

276
00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.480
adventuring for, like literally ever.

277
00:13:48.539 --> 00:13:51.659
You know, where he'd see the introduction of John Hurts doctor.

278
00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:55.500
And here, we have a new character who's been massively important

279
00:13:55.500 --> 00:13:59.519
to Rory and Amy, but just hasn't come up because they were busy

280
00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:01.440
being on adventures.

281
00:14:01.500 --> 00:14:03.360
And I think that that's actually really cool.

282
00:14:03.419 --> 00:14:09.539
And none of us were complaining about Wilf not being at Donna's

283
00:14:09.539 --> 00:14:09.899
wedding.

284
00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:11.879
So it has happened before.

285
00:14:12.059 --> 00:14:13.860
Oh, fair enough.

286
00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:17.399
I just I just want to spin off, though, on the insertion.

287
00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:20.759
They did these tie-in books around the time the series came out

288
00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:24.059
called The Brilliant Book, just for series 5 and six.

289
00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:25.919
And one of the things they did with this, they just have like

290
00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:28.740
little short fiction segments tying into each story that aired.

291
00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:33.299
So for this one, you get to see Amy, Rory, and Mel's report cards

292
00:14:33.299 --> 00:14:34.019
from grade school.

293
00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:36.179
The best thing.

294
00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:41.220
Do you think that, I mean, the reason he did that was so that Big

295
00:14:41.220 --> 00:14:44.759
Finish had plenty of space to slot whole box.

296
00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:46.740
I'm sure that wasn't a considerable...

297
00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:50.639
There was a very cute Doctor Who magazine comics sending off Amy

298
00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:52.980
and Rory about them as kids with Mel's.

299
00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:55.379
That was a really nice thing to see.

300
00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:58.500
I think it's a really fun period to play in that this episode just

301
00:14:58.500 --> 00:15:00.360
throws in for 10 minutes and then moves on from.

302
00:15:00.419 --> 00:15:06.659
So it is obviously partly being done to make up for the loss of

303
00:15:06.659 --> 00:15:07.440
the baby.

304
00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:10.679
And there are other things later in the season that we'll do that

305
00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:10.980
as well.

306
00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:15.600
In fact, even the reveal at the end of a good man goes to war, that

307
00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:18.059
the baby is here standing in front of you.

308
00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:19.139
She's river.

309
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:21.960
She's someone you like, who's smart and wonderful at turns out

310
00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:25.919
that your baby grows up to be a sort of fantastic woman.

311
00:15:25.980 --> 00:15:28.320
You know, that's some kind of reassurance.

312
00:15:28.379 --> 00:15:30.059
That means the baby's going to be okay.

313
00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:36.899
But I do think that it doesn't actually successfully make up for

314
00:15:36.899 --> 00:15:37.200
it.

315
00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:42.360
And we've talked before about the way that Moffatt's companions

316
00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:45.779
end up going through really kind of terrible things.

317
00:15:46.019 --> 00:15:48.240
And I think this is one of them.

318
00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:51.240
I think that what happens to Amy, I think, is actually too big and

319
00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:54.299
kind of too awful for the show to actually properly accommodate

320
00:15:54.299 --> 00:15:57.840
and so it actually just has to kind of sail past it in a way.

321
00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:03.600
And so Amy will get to get her revenge on Madame Cavarian in the

322
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:10.200
finale in what is a pretty satisfying way, and she does get this

323
00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:12.899
sort of fun comedy sequence with Mel's.

324
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:18.840
But there's no real sense in which the show is equipped to kind of

325
00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:21.480
deal with what happens to her.

326
00:16:21.539 --> 00:16:24.179
And I don't know whether that's a problem or not.

327
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:30.120
Look, to be fair, I wish it hadn't have gone there, I think they

328
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.720
could have done it differently and I think it's not handled as

329
00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:38.820
well as it might have been, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

330
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:41.820
I didn't come away feeling that, oh, this is absolutely terrible.

331
00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:42.840
I'm never watching the show again.

332
00:16:42.899 --> 00:16:45.240
You know, I mean, there are always things that you go, oh, you

333
00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:49.620
know, maybe not, but I ran with it once it happened and I was

334
00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:50.039
fine.

335
00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:53.279
I'm much less fine with other aspects that happen than this.

336
00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:59.159
So for me and for other people I've talked to who really relate to

337
00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:02.460
Amy and this story, the fact that it's sort of bigger than the

338
00:17:02.460 --> 00:17:05.519
show can ever actually heal or resolve is the plus.

339
00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:08.160
Like, you don't just put a band-aid on trauma.

340
00:17:08.220 --> 00:17:08.819
It doesn't go away.

341
00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:09.960
It just sort of simmers.

342
00:17:10.019 --> 00:17:13.200
And I think one of the best things about Amy Pond is a character.

343
00:17:13.259 --> 00:17:16.140
From the beginning, she's set up as a character who has baggage

344
00:17:16.140 --> 00:17:17.460
and walls it off.

345
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:21.720
So by function of her character, you can have it just simmer under

346
00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.599
and burst out in unrelated moments like it does.

347
00:17:24.660 --> 00:17:27.480
And I think throughout the back half of this series and episodes

348
00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:30.059
like the girl who waited or the god complex is there.

349
00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:33.119
And it's very explicitly there, and the Wedding of River Song, and

350
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:34.799
Asylum of the Daleks later.

351
00:17:34.859 --> 00:17:38.640
For me, that's why it works, because it's part of her, it's not

352
00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:39.900
her whole life.

353
00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:43.200
She never going to be redefined by it, but it's always part of her

354
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:47.640
and she's living on with it, and there are little things, little

355
00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:50.640
steps taken to try and make things better, but they don't fix it

356
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:51.720
and they never pretend it does.

357
00:17:52.019 --> 00:17:55.859
I think too, it's just a kind of function of Doctor Who.

358
00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:58.740
Like the Doctor Who companion, he's going to be constantly put

359
00:17:58.740 --> 00:18:03.240
through all kinds of trauma that if it happened to a real person

360
00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:05.160
would be an absolute deal breaker.

361
00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:09.480
But the show just kind of has to let it go.

362
00:18:09.539 --> 00:18:13.259
Because if you're going to have fun adventures in peril, you're

363
00:18:13.259 --> 00:18:15.660
going to have characters put through things that ordinarily they

364
00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:18.779
wouldn't tolerate or that they would kind of collapse in the face

365
00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:19.859
of or something like that.

366
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:20.819
Yeah.

367
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:24.420
Yeah, and never do again. go home and say, I'm leaving this.

368
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:25.559
I understand this for a moment longer.

369
00:18:25.619 --> 00:18:27.000
I mean, why did Perry stay?

370
00:18:27.059 --> 00:18:27.299
Why?

371
00:18:27.420 --> 00:18:31.980
Yeah, well, we asked the question, why did Sarah get in the TARDIS

372
00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:35.819
at the end of Terror of the Zygons after, you know, that terrible

373
00:18:35.819 --> 00:18:37.500
time she had in series 12?

374
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:38.940
Like it's unthinkable.

375
00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:45.000
But Moffat leans into that in a big way in like series 7, B, 8, and

376
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.200
9. like where, you know, like we'll talk about that in in a USO's

377
00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:53.880
time, but he does lead into that and he does examine that in quite

378
00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:55.559
a big way with Clara.

379
00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:59.460
I mean, you know, he's never losing sight of the fact that these

380
00:18:59.460 --> 00:19:03.839
are not people, they are television characters, and he's writing

381
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:05.759
interesting things to happen to them.

382
00:19:05.819 --> 00:19:10.980
And it's a little bit different from the RTD approach, but not

383
00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:14.339
light years away from the RTD approach, where RTD is trying to

384
00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:17.160
write characters who are a little bit kind of more like the

385
00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:20.339
characters that you see on soap operas.

386
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:23.579
But I mean, even if you if you look at a soap opera, any given

387
00:19:23.579 --> 00:19:28.319
character on a soap opera, would be kind of quivering in a corner

388
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:32.039
in a state of learned helplessness after all of the sort of

389
00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:35.339
constant trauma and things that they have undergone as well.

390
00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:38.220
You know, Well, maybe we should get that.

391
00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:43.740
Yeah, I mean, having to run a pub and deal with ghosts from

392
00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:44.400
another universe.

393
00:19:44.460 --> 00:19:45.420
Yes, exactly.

394
00:19:45.539 --> 00:19:47.279
Peggy Mitchell.

395
00:19:57.299 --> 00:20:00.900
So, let's talk about Hitler.

396
00:20:03.420 --> 00:20:05.880
It's tasteless, but I love it.

397
00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:11.880
We learn quite early on that Mel's is obsessed with the doctor and

398
00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:15.539
she keeps getting in trouble in class for mentioning the doctor

399
00:20:15.539 --> 00:20:21.480
and she says that a key reason for Hitler's rise to power is that

400
00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:22.859
the doctor wasn't there to stop him.

401
00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:27.180
And so that is something that she's been thinking of.

402
00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:30.180
So the moment that she meets the doctor, she threatens him with a

403
00:20:30.180 --> 00:20:33.480
gun and says, let's go back and stop Hitler, right?

404
00:20:33.539 --> 00:20:37.140
Now that's a super click baby title and it was absolutely

405
00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:42.059
foregrounded at the end of the previous episode and at the launch

406
00:20:42.059 --> 00:20:45.900
of the of this 2nd half of the series.

407
00:20:46.259 --> 00:20:50.579
Why why are we killing Hitler in this episode?

408
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:52.559
Why does she want to kill Hitler?

409
00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:57.000
Because it's the ultimate one of the ultimate time travel paradox

410
00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:57.420
things.

411
00:20:57.480 --> 00:20:59.640
You know, if you're going to go back and change history in a

412
00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:02.339
meaningful way, the 1st thing that people say is, let's go back

413
00:21:02.339 --> 00:21:05.279
and kill Hitler, let's stop Hitler from doing all these terrible

414
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:05.579
things.

415
00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:07.740
I mean, you're not going to say, you're not going to say let's

416
00:21:07.740 --> 00:21:10.680
kill Stalin or let's kill Pol Pot, or let's kill any other number

417
00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:14.279
of evil dictators who, you know, cause death and destruction.

418
00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:18.779
Hitler is beyond the archetype of this.

419
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:20.819
And so it's like doing the Titanic episode.

420
00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:22.319
Everyone's kind of waiting for it.

421
00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:25.079
Well, in fact, she says that the Titanic sinks because the doctor

422
00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:27.720
wasn't there to save it as well in that sense.

423
00:21:28.259 --> 00:21:32.220
I mean, I think also there is a degree to which you can read it as

424
00:21:32.220 --> 00:21:35.579
Mel's trying to fish out what the doctor's boundaries are and what

425
00:21:35.579 --> 00:21:39.359
his morals are because she's been growing up being told one

426
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:42.539
version of him trained to want to kill him, but she says out right

427
00:21:42.539 --> 00:21:43.019
up front.

428
00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:47.519
She wanted to get to know him first. before she then murders him.

429
00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:49.140
So I think it works there.

430
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:50.819
And I also think it works like we were talking about.

431
00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:55.559
This episode is presumably rewriting things and leading with a

432
00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:57.660
title like that primes the audience did expect.

433
00:21:57.660 --> 00:22:01.859
That is going to kind of be about writing things. even if it does

434
00:22:01.859 --> 00:22:05.759
kind of, you know, shove the main one into a cupboard, which, thank

435
00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:06.420
God it does.

436
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:07.500
It's not equipped to deal with him.

437
00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:12.180
Yeah, and I think that this is the show absolutely acknowledging

438
00:22:12.180 --> 00:22:12.539
that.

439
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:15.539
I think this is the show saying, actually, we can't do Hitler.

440
00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:18.779
Back in the days of the new adventures.

441
00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:22.019
Paul Cornell said that he thought that the 7th doctor was the only

442
00:22:22.019 --> 00:22:26.579
person who had the kind of moral depth to kind of appear in a

443
00:22:26.579 --> 00:22:31.019
concentration camp or something like that, or to be put in a story

444
00:22:31.019 --> 00:22:32.339
with the Holocaust.

445
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:36.900
And I just think that that was an absolutely preposterous thing to

446
00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:37.259
say.

447
00:22:37.380 --> 00:22:43.380
And like, with all due respect, ridiculously.

448
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:45.180
And I don't know whether he would agree with that now.

449
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:46.380
That was a very long time ago.

450
00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:50.039
And we had a big, you know, we were super excited about the 7th

451
00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:53.039
doctor because he was, he did seem to be more kind of morally

452
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:54.779
complex than his predecessors.

453
00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:57.420
But the fact is that the show can't do it.

454
00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:01.079
The show can't possibly handle it.

455
00:23:01.140 --> 00:23:05.519
And so when we go back to kill Hitler, what we end up doing is

456
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:09.660
making some jokes, you know, getting Rory to punch him in the face

457
00:23:09.660 --> 00:23:14.039
getting Rory to say the words shut up, Hitler, which is so great.

458
00:23:14.099 --> 00:23:15.059
And then...

459
00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:16.619
Literally punching a Nazi in the face.

460
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:17.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

461
00:23:17.460 --> 00:23:21.960
And and the put Hitler in the cupboard over there again is also

462
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:22.680
really funny.

463
00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:26.279
But what it's basically saying is we actually can't do this.

464
00:23:26.339 --> 00:23:31.019
The story doesn't actually need to be set in Berlin in 1938 at

465
00:23:31.019 --> 00:23:31.259
all.

466
00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:32.039
It could be anywhere.

467
00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:37.019
But I do think that it's making the point that we can't do Hitler

468
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:38.279
will just put him in the cupboard over there.

469
00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:42.299
The other plus to being set in that time is you get a whole bunch

470
00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:45.420
of innocent, supposedly innocent people, that river can totally

471
00:23:45.420 --> 00:23:49.380
terrorise without anyone feeling even the slightest bit bad about

472
00:23:49.380 --> 00:23:49.619
it.

473
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:53.940
I don't think you need to have Hitler there and put him in a

474
00:23:53.940 --> 00:23:56.400
cupboard just to demonstrate that we can't do Hitler.

475
00:23:56.460 --> 00:23:59.339
I think you demonstrate not doing Hitler by not doing Hitler.

476
00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:02.880
It is kind of, would have been my preference because I think what

477
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:08.640
we end up with is a situation where it trivialises, um, it all.

478
00:24:08.700 --> 00:24:12.119
And I know we're not venturing into the absolute darkest of the

479
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:18.180
dark of the Nazi era, but I just think that it, and as you say, it

480
00:24:18.180 --> 00:24:19.680
doesn't need to be set there.

481
00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:20.700
It could be set anywhere.

482
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:24.779
There is nothing about Berlin in 1938, which is relevant in any

483
00:24:24.779 --> 00:24:27.299
way to the story.

484
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:29.819
It's just there basically for effect.

485
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:30.779
A fun effect.

486
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:31.380
Yes, absolutely.

487
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:35.700
But I think what we end up with is this kind of, It becomes too

488
00:24:35.700 --> 00:24:39.180
much like this light entertainment.

489
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:42.000
It's just all, it's it's a lower, low.

490
00:24:42.059 --> 00:24:45.059
It's, it's, as I was saying, it's springtime for Hitler, it's JoJo

491
00:24:45.059 --> 00:24:45.480
Rabbit.

492
00:24:45.539 --> 00:24:49.920
It's something that's not really got any kind of gravity to it.

493
00:24:49.980 --> 00:24:54.000
And I get that you want Dr. to be entertaining, and I want Dr. to

494
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:56.519
be entertaining, but I feel that the kind of entertaining that

495
00:24:56.519 --> 00:25:01.859
this episode does in this setting is, um, it's just very

496
00:25:01.859 --> 00:25:05.400
unfortunate, and it's just not the program that, that, that I

497
00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:08.160
think it should be. and can be.

498
00:25:08.339 --> 00:25:12.660
I think, though, what is interesting is that there is someone else

499
00:25:12.660 --> 00:25:14.160
who wants to kill Hitler.

500
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:16.859
And that is the Tess Elector.

501
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:24.299
And so what we have, right, is the show acknowledging that it

502
00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:29.099
can't deal with something like Hitler, that the reason that bad

503
00:25:29.099 --> 00:25:33.420
things happen in human history and the doctor doesn't stop them is

504
00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:36.720
because the doctor's not real, he's made up.

505
00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:40.559
And so he can't stop any of those things, right?

506
00:25:40.619 --> 00:25:44.519
But the test selector, which is also made up, thinks it can.

507
00:25:44.579 --> 00:25:47.039
And the test selector is the TARDIS.

508
00:25:47.099 --> 00:25:49.200
They have discovered time travel.

509
00:25:49.259 --> 00:25:52.019
They are smaller on the inside than the outside.

510
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:55.440
It has a chameleon circuit that allows it to change shape.

511
00:25:55.500 --> 00:25:59.160
It travels from place to place in order to punish bad guys.

512
00:25:59.220 --> 00:26:02.460
It literally does what the Tartars does.

513
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:05.579
But it thinks it can handle Hitler.

514
00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:08.579
I think one of the differences is it has a Star Trek bridge.

515
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:11.400
Having a Star Trek Bridge means it thinks it can take on serious

516
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:15.119
topics without being equipped for it. not be the serious sci-fi

517
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:19.200
drama, not moral parables. with a captain in a chair.

518
00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:23.519
And you get that fantastic line, you know, I'd ask you who you

519
00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:27.900
thought you were, but I think I think I already know.

520
00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:29.160
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's obvious.

521
00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:30.960
Yeah, like that's fantastic.

522
00:26:31.619 --> 00:26:36.779
I can almost forgive the, I, we, we can't do let's kill Hitler

523
00:26:36.779 --> 00:26:39.240
because of the wonderful lines you get.

524
00:26:39.299 --> 00:26:41.339
Like, I've got a banging in my head.

525
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:43.859
I think that's Hitler in the cupboard. doesn't make it better.

526
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:49.619
Oh, unquestionably, there's great lines and it plays all of that

527
00:26:49.619 --> 00:26:53.039
beautifully and there are so many great funny things.

528
00:26:53.099 --> 00:26:56.339
I just don't think it's Doctor Who is my is my issues.

529
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:57.180
It's a marvel.

530
00:26:57.240 --> 00:26:58.319
Marvel film is what it is.

531
00:26:58.380 --> 00:27:01.440
I do think there's one place where it really does fall flat on its

532
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:04.680
face too, much as I adore the episode where they say, there's a

533
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:06.720
worse war criminal than Hitler here.

534
00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:07.920
It's River song.

535
00:27:07.980 --> 00:27:08.700
Yeah.

536
00:27:08.700 --> 00:27:12.299
That is a fundamentally misguided line to include.

537
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:13.740
The episode would have been fine without it.

538
00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:15.660
Mistakes were made.

539
00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:20.640
I think, I think, though, that is a very deliberate callback to

540
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:24.000
the previous episode, kind of, it's a feint to make you think

541
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:27.480
they're talking about the doctor because the Titus is arriving and

542
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:31.619
you've just had this whole plot line where, you know, a baby has

543
00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:35.700
been turned to sick because you're trying to, you know, like

544
00:27:35.700 --> 00:27:37.799
you're trying to kill the doctor.

545
00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:38.700
Not the fluid I would have said.

546
00:27:38.700 --> 00:27:41.099
And so like that whole thing, it was a setup.

547
00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:43.200
I mean, yeah, like the line is terrible.

548
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:51.000
I think that the test selector is actually really pretty fantastic

549
00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:52.740
in all sorts of ways.

550
00:27:53.220 --> 00:27:55.319
It's 1st appearance.

551
00:27:55.380 --> 00:28:00.779
So it's taking on the appearance of, you know, one of the officers

552
00:28:00.779 --> 00:28:03.119
who's then going to go into Hitler's office and kind of attack

553
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:04.200
Hitler or whatever.

554
00:28:04.259 --> 00:28:07.859
And just the fact that it comes face to face with the officer and

555
00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:11.880
the 1st scary thing it does is just grow to be as tall as him.

556
00:28:11.940 --> 00:28:16.619
You know, like it's nothing like super weird or spacey or anything

557
00:28:16.619 --> 00:28:17.339
like that.

558
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:21.180
It just does something physically weird and impossible.

559
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:22.799
That's incredibly unsettling.

560
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:24.839
And just Harriet.

561
00:28:24.900 --> 00:28:27.599
Like, I just think Harriet is absolutely fabulous.

562
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:31.559
Like, when she runs up to eyeball it out the window, she's the art

563
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:34.079
department, she wants to get the skin colour, right?

564
00:28:34.140 --> 00:28:35.039
It's so good.

565
00:28:35.099 --> 00:28:36.359
It's so funny.

566
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:42.180
It's very funny Do you like the, um... the fact that the test

567
00:28:42.180 --> 00:28:44.279
selected can do everything apart from glasses.

568
00:28:44.339 --> 00:28:46.259
Well, that's the other thing.

569
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:48.240
Your motorbike?

570
00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:52.799
Yes, we can do a motorbike with moving parts, but it can't do a

571
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:53.339
pair of glasses.

572
00:28:53.460 --> 00:28:56.400
No, because it actually says let's keep this simple.

573
00:28:56.460 --> 00:28:58.319
We won't do anything detachable.

574
00:28:58.380 --> 00:29:01.380
So they can detach things.

575
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:04.980
And the main reason, of course, that it takes the glasses off is

576
00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:09.299
that you kind of imagine that it's going to do what the T 1000

577
00:29:09.299 --> 00:29:13.500
does in in Terminator 2 and kind of like poke his head in or

578
00:29:13.500 --> 00:29:16.380
something like that, but it just takes the glasses off him and

579
00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:19.920
puts them on. like in a way that is super menacing.

580
00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:25.680
Yeah, the effect of the tessellator changing shape is much more

581
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:28.859
interesting than it might have been with all of the, it is like a

582
00:29:28.859 --> 00:29:32.519
whole of tiles, hence the names, as opposed to, as opposed to it

583
00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:36.119
being some goobly mess that sort of morphs into the new shape.

584
00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:37.740
It's a lovely effect.

585
00:29:37.859 --> 00:29:41.339
It also has one of my favourite parts of the story once you get

586
00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:44.819
inside of it and meet the antibodies, which I think are genuinely

587
00:29:44.819 --> 00:29:48.480
one of the least appreciated but most wonderful monsters in Doctor

588
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:49.200
Who history.

589
00:29:49.259 --> 00:29:52.859
Every single moment with them fills me with deep joy.

590
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:55.799
You will feel a tingling sensation and then death.

591
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:03.539
Please stand still whilst your existence has ended or something

592
00:30:03.539 --> 00:30:03.839
like that.

593
00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:08.940
I mean, I know it's a screwball comedy episode, but I mean, if we

594
00:30:08.940 --> 00:30:12.180
were if one were to be making it more seriously, you'd you

595
00:30:12.180 --> 00:30:14.640
wouldn't have them say any of that stuff, it'd be far more creepy

596
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:17.519
and they'd just be sort of, you know, approaching silently.

597
00:30:17.579 --> 00:30:22.380
But to make it that, again, the fun Marvel universe, the antibody

598
00:30:22.380 --> 00:30:25.200
jellyfish things need to, you know, proclaim what they're about to

599
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:26.400
do in this kind of weird way.

600
00:30:26.460 --> 00:30:28.079
I mean, I think that's Doctor Who.

601
00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:30.180
Oh, I don't know whether it's always Doctor Who.

602
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:32.940
I think that that comes and goes, that sort of thing.

603
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:34.799
Depending on whether they're going for that.

604
00:30:34.859 --> 00:30:37.619
I think I think Doctor Who Monsters have always kind of walked a

605
00:30:37.619 --> 00:30:40.619
line between silly and scary where there's an element of camp.

606
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:43.140
There's an element of playground catchphrases.

607
00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:46.859
They're, their, their score for kids, and there's always an

608
00:30:46.859 --> 00:30:49.619
element of, it's kind of silly, and that's kind of why we love it

609
00:30:49.619 --> 00:30:50.579
to it.

610
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:51.059
I think.

611
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:53.519
No, you see, I think the silliness.

612
00:30:53.579 --> 00:30:55.500
Do you think that that's deliberate in the new series?

613
00:30:55.619 --> 00:30:56.819
Yes, exactly, James.

614
00:30:56.940 --> 00:31:00.119
It's deliberately done in a new series because I think in the

615
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:04.140
original series, it is all, well, in the main, trying to be more

616
00:31:04.140 --> 00:31:07.740
serious and it's silly when it's failing to do that.

617
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:11.519
And so the new series, the style of the new series, is it's run

618
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:16.200
with that, um, by bringing the silliness in as a as a Nintendo

619
00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:16.799
aspect of it.

620
00:31:16.859 --> 00:31:20.160
And you're right, they've always had catchphrases, but not

621
00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:21.359
deliberately so.

622
00:31:21.420 --> 00:31:24.900
I mean, not, you know, the catchphrases have been, should we say, a

623
00:31:24.900 --> 00:31:27.779
little less subtle nowadays, they do a catchphrase because they

624
00:31:27.779 --> 00:31:28.559
want a catchphrase.

625
00:31:28.619 --> 00:31:30.240
It's just a different way of doing.

626
00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:32.279
Yeah, they're lampshading it.

627
00:31:32.339 --> 00:31:34.140
Like the new series lampshades.

628
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:36.779
I'd say the classic series did too.

629
00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:39.180
I mean, you don't put Hartnell in the Dalek in the space museum

630
00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:40.680
because you want it to be taken seriously.

631
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:43.740
Yeah, I actually think it's a function of when we were watching

632
00:31:43.740 --> 00:31:44.160
it.

633
00:31:44.220 --> 00:31:50.460
I actually think that the creators of the show were kind of aware

634
00:31:50.460 --> 00:31:56.220
that their monsters did kind of walk the line between funny and

635
00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:58.140
silly and that silly wasn't a failure mode.

636
00:31:58.200 --> 00:32:00.779
I think silly was often what they were kind of going for.

637
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:04.380
And I certainly think that Bob Holmes' approach is often that.

638
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:11.579
Like Bob Holmes is often kind of aiming for sort of camp nonsense

639
00:32:11.579 --> 00:32:15.900
and hitting it rather than aiming for serious terror and failing

640
00:32:15.900 --> 00:32:16.380
to hit it.

641
00:32:16.619 --> 00:32:19.740
Oh, I don't think it was aiming for serious terror.

642
00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:21.599
And you're right, there are a lot of moments, whether it's

643
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:25.140
heartland, the Dalek in the Space Museum, or what, but it's just a

644
00:32:25.140 --> 00:32:29.220
different, and yeah, and I will accept that it is a function of

645
00:32:29.220 --> 00:32:30.420
when, when, when we're watching it.

646
00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:36.180
But I still think, as James is saying, they lampshaded a little

647
00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:40.440
bit more in the new series compared to in the old twos.

648
00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:42.480
Yes, of course, there are moments of camp.

649
00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:44.460
Deliberate, deliberate stupidity, yeah.

650
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:45.420
Deliberate campness.

651
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:50.339
I think the show, the new series is based on the reception of the

652
00:32:50.339 --> 00:32:54.359
old series, more than it is on the actual old series itself.

653
00:32:54.420 --> 00:32:56.759
So how did we watch the old series?

654
00:32:56.819 --> 00:33:00.660
Let's replicate that rather than how what was the old series

655
00:33:00.660 --> 00:33:02.819
actually like and replicate that.

656
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:06.539
And I think that that's fine because, you know, the new series is

657
00:33:06.539 --> 00:33:10.319
written in full knowledge of the things that everyone remembers

658
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:12.539
fondly about the old series.

659
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:17.339
Yeah, I mean, but that's why or remembers fondly about what they

660
00:33:17.339 --> 00:33:18.839
wish the old series might have had.

661
00:33:18.900 --> 00:33:22.019
That's why you have Dalek versusylum in the end, you know, the 2nd

662
00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:22.440
season.

663
00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:24.779
You know, that is all about that.

664
00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:27.420
Well, that's why you have the Titanic and a kind of a Titanic

665
00:33:27.420 --> 00:33:30.359
popping up because that's everyone was waiting for that story in

666
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:32.279
the 1st in the 1st original run.

667
00:33:47.339 --> 00:33:52.200
So, was anyone surprised, I'm talking about the first time round

668
00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:57.660
um, 10 years ago, when Mel regenerates into Alex Kingston?

669
00:33:58.259 --> 00:34:00.720
Oh, yep.

670
00:34:00.779 --> 00:34:04.200
I mean, like I said, I expected it to be river from the start, but

671
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:08.519
the recasting through me and I at that point stopped thinking

672
00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:09.659
about it as a possibility.

673
00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:11.340
So when it hits, it's like, oh.

674
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:13.440
I think that's the brilliance of it, isn't it?

675
00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:16.679
So we have already learned.

676
00:34:16.739 --> 00:34:22.139
We've already learned that melody is river, so we do know that.

677
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:27.179
We know the character is called Mel's, and it is the usual Moffat

678
00:34:27.179 --> 00:34:30.480
thing of hiding the solution to the mystery in plain sight.

679
00:34:30.539 --> 00:34:31.679
Who is Missy?

680
00:34:31.739 --> 00:34:32.460
Guess what?

681
00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:33.780
She's the master.

682
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:34.920
Who else could it possibly be?

683
00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:38.820
And yet it does actually come as a surprise.

684
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:41.699
We know that the doctor's hunting for melody.

685
00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:46.800
We know that river is melody, and yet when river actually turns up

686
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:49.139
we're surprised to see her.

687
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:51.780
And I think that that's actually pretty good.

688
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:58.260
I have to say, though, that clearly we're characterising river

689
00:34:58.260 --> 00:35:04.380
quite differently, the river that we know is older, and in silence

690
00:35:04.380 --> 00:35:06.480
in the library, she's as old as she's ever going to get.

691
00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:09.420
And so this is young river.

692
00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:11.039
And so she is very different.

693
00:35:11.099 --> 00:35:17.099
And I don't quite know how to feel about how girly she is.

694
00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:23.579
So there's that line when Mel's is regenerating where she says

695
00:35:23.579 --> 00:35:29.219
shut up, dad. focussing on a dress size and then and then you get

696
00:35:29.219 --> 00:35:32.400
River kind of running out of the room to check something and it's

697
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:33.480
clearly her arse.

698
00:35:33.539 --> 00:35:38.699
Like, she clearly checks her butt and then comes back...

699
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:42.480
I honestly think it's the best post-regeneration scene for that

700
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:46.500
reason. entirely Jodie had done it.

701
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:49.860
If Ali Jo did look down and said, wow, there's a lot going on down

702
00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:50.460
there.

703
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:55.500
Matt Smith, if Matt Smith had looked down and said that, that

704
00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:56.400
would have been a lot of fun too.

705
00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:59.940
No, he's a bit skinny, so it would be more, there's not a lot

706
00:35:59.940 --> 00:36:00.719
going on down there.

707
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:09.000
So yeah, it does sort of play into sort of Moffatt's stereotype

708
00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:13.260
gender essentialism thing that he is always kind of being hit for

709
00:36:13.260 --> 00:36:16.139
and is certainly a massive feature of coupling.

710
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:21.780
Um, but it's hard not to enjoy it for just being incredibly fun

711
00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:26.519
even though it's, it trivialised as a, I guess we know that that's

712
00:36:26.519 --> 00:36:31.440
not all that there is to river and it is just a sort of post

713
00:36:30.420 --> 00:36:34.260
regeneration excitement with a new body, I think.

714
00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:38.460
I think it also helps that Alex Kingston sort of plays the

715
00:36:38.460 --> 00:36:41.340
character in this episode is just like a sort of naughty

716
00:36:41.340 --> 00:36:42.599
rebellious teen the whole time.

717
00:36:42.659 --> 00:36:44.460
It's a totally different performance.

718
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:46.980
I've never really picked up on just how different it is before, but

719
00:36:46.980 --> 00:36:49.980
she's having a lot of fun playing a snotty kid.

720
00:36:50.099 --> 00:36:55.260
But she's just, she's just regenerated from basically being a snot

721
00:36:55.260 --> 00:36:55.559
18.

722
00:36:55.860 --> 00:36:59.039
So, like, that is a natural progression.

723
00:36:59.099 --> 00:37:01.980
But also the character of River Song.

724
00:37:02.219 --> 00:37:04.500
He's very fashion conscious.

725
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:08.820
She's always looking spectacular in whatever she wears, whether

726
00:37:08.820 --> 00:37:12.599
she's, you know, sabotaging an alien spaceship in high heels or

727
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:15.420
whether whatever it is she's doing, even when she's in a uniform

728
00:37:15.420 --> 00:37:16.199
she looks fantastic.

729
00:37:16.619 --> 00:37:21.780
Regenerating is like putting on another set of clothes for a time

730
00:37:21.780 --> 00:37:22.800
lord, surely.

731
00:37:22.860 --> 00:37:25.199
So, and a surprising set of clothes.

732
00:37:25.260 --> 00:37:26.760
A set of clothes that you don't know what they're going to be

733
00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:26.940
like.

734
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:28.800
And it's like, 0 my god, this is so fantastic.

735
00:37:28.860 --> 00:37:30.059
I've got this and that, I've got that.

736
00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:34.199
And the comedy with the doctor is always like discovering, oh my

737
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:35.820
god, the chin's huge or the nose is huge.

738
00:37:35.940 --> 00:37:37.019
Oh my god, what's this?

739
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:39.900
There's always the joke about looking in the mirror going, 0 my

740
00:37:39.900 --> 00:37:40.619
god, what's that?

741
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:45.059
Whereas it's great that with the females who regenerate, whether

742
00:37:45.059 --> 00:37:49.139
it's Ramada or River song, they're always looking at how fabulous

743
00:37:49.139 --> 00:37:51.179
they are, because let's face it, they are.

744
00:37:52.619 --> 00:37:55.920
Well, except that bit where Romana's a fish person.

745
00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:02.699
It is that thing about the, you know, the female timelords, see

746
00:38:02.699 --> 00:38:05.639
well, that the time or 2 are predominantly female, seem to have

747
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:08.820
much more control over the regeneration and the male ones do.

748
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:12.539
For the men, it's all a chaotic nightmare and they're traumatised

749
00:38:12.539 --> 00:38:15.599
afterwards, whereas both Romana and River song, go through these

750
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:18.119
generations and are totally invigorated by the process.

751
00:38:18.300 --> 00:38:20.820
I think the doctors just crap at it.

752
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:23.340
I know a lot of trans women who really love that.

753
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:24.960
Great.

754
00:38:25.019 --> 00:38:28.019
And and then we get the shopping, like going shopping.

755
00:38:28.019 --> 00:38:30.780
And that, like, you actually think you're in Berlin.

756
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:33.059
You know, it's one of the world centres of fashion.

757
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:36.360
She's literally going to go to the shops, but instead there she is

758
00:38:36.360 --> 00:38:40.800
in the Temple of Peace in Cardiff, like with machine guns, you

759
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:45.000
know, threatening all these horrible, horrible sort of Nazi people

760
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:50.099
that thing where Rory and Amy sort of turn up on a motorcycle

761
00:38:50.099 --> 00:38:52.679
going, where on earth do we find river?

762
00:38:52.739 --> 00:38:55.679
And then all of these people run out of a restaurant in their

763
00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:58.320
underwear and oh, there she is.

764
00:38:58.380 --> 00:38:59.400
It's so good.

765
00:38:59.460 --> 00:39:03.059
I mean it is just so terrifically funny. is very funny.

766
00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:06.599
Speaking of so terrifically funny, how we get there is incredible

767
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:09.000
with the very Sherlocky.

768
00:39:09.059 --> 00:39:13.559
I switched the weapon and back and forth clever montage because

769
00:39:13.559 --> 00:39:15.119
it's just so knowingly ridiculous.

770
00:39:15.179 --> 00:39:19.199
You get that amazing shot of Alex Kingston looking royally ticked

771
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:20.159
off holding a banana.

772
00:39:20.219 --> 00:39:20.940
It's wonderful.

773
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:25.019
It's the 2nd time, of course, too, that the doctor has substituted

774
00:39:25.019 --> 00:39:30.900
a banana for a gun in Moffat story because Christopher Eckleston

775
00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:35.579
does it to Captain Jack way, way, way back in series one.

776
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:36.719
He probably forgot he did it.

777
00:39:36.780 --> 00:39:37.260
Let's be real.

778
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:39.659
No, it's Moffat.

779
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:42.000
He's going back to his tried and true tropes.

780
00:39:42.059 --> 00:39:43.079
It's his thing.

781
00:39:43.139 --> 00:39:47.099
And of course, we have missed out in getting to this point, we

782
00:39:47.099 --> 00:39:49.920
have missed out one of the perhaps funniest lines is when River

783
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:53.519
comes out with being about going to a gay gypsy ber mitzvah.

784
00:39:53.579 --> 00:39:54.360
For the disabled.

785
00:39:54.420 --> 00:39:57.000
It's just beautiful. confident same.

786
00:39:57.059 --> 00:39:58.019
I didn't give up.

787
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:02.880
I mentioned last week that one of my history teacher colleagues

788
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:06.780
had a screen cap of that on the wall of her classroom, not a

789
00:40:06.780 --> 00:40:10.440
particular Doctor Who fan, but absolutely adored that line.

790
00:40:10.500 --> 00:40:14.579
And it's even the, oh, the Fuhrer is a bit rubbish, or what is

791
00:40:14.579 --> 00:40:14.760
it?

792
00:40:14.820 --> 00:40:17.159
The 3rd rider's rubbish. a bit rubbish.

793
00:40:17.219 --> 00:40:18.179
I think or kill the Furrer.

794
00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:18.840
Who's with me?

795
00:40:18.900 --> 00:40:20.579
So good.

796
00:40:21.420 --> 00:40:25.679
It's one of those lines that transcends the show it came from and

797
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:27.719
just goes viral on the strength of itself.

798
00:40:27.780 --> 00:40:30.239
I definitely saw that line all over the place after the episode

799
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:31.980
aired. that good.

800
00:40:32.519 --> 00:40:39.179
There's that whole bit before that where he references the

801
00:40:39.179 --> 00:40:40.199
graduate as well.

802
00:40:40.260 --> 00:40:43.500
Oh, yeah, the moment she's that she's older.

803
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:44.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

804
00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:45.719
She lifts her leg.

805
00:40:46.139 --> 00:40:48.960
You know, like Mrs. Robinson.

806
00:40:49.019 --> 00:40:49.679
It's absolutely.

807
00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:54.480
But somehow he's forgotten the graduate from the series opener

808
00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:56.039
because clearly he knows the plot there.

809
00:40:56.159 --> 00:40:58.559
He's forgotten in about 7 episodes.

810
00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:15.300
So, one of the most wonderful and impactful scenes to me in this

811
00:41:15.300 --> 00:41:18.239
episode is the scene where the doctors and the TARDIS speaking to

812
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:22.079
the voice interface, and it comes out after, you know, some

813
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:25.320
shockingly wonderful callbacks to the last couple companions

814
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:26.400
little Amy.

815
00:41:26.460 --> 00:41:32.219
And it's just so dry but so touching with the, uh, I mean, for, for

816
00:41:32.219 --> 00:41:33.300
a start, it's just funny.

817
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:37.320
You'll be dead in 32 minutes, just keeps escalating perfectly, but

818
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:40.019
it never really loses track of the emotion in the scene and it

819
00:41:40.019 --> 00:41:40.380
really gets me.

820
00:41:40.679 --> 00:41:46.860
I have to be uncharacteristically, uh, curmudgeonly about this, but

821
00:41:46.860 --> 00:41:52.139
I actually find that whole end a little bit overwrought, and it's

822
00:41:52.139 --> 00:41:59.340
and it's the 1st time I think that I'm not totally sold on Matt's

823
00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:03.780
performance choices, or whether it's that I just don't want to

824
00:42:03.780 --> 00:42:06.900
watch sort of prolonged scenes of him crying out in pain or

825
00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:07.500
something like that.

826
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:14.460
Like, I just, I just find that that's the bit where I kind of

827
00:42:14.460 --> 00:42:17.340
that's the bit where I kind of check out a little bit and I'm no

828
00:42:17.340 --> 00:42:20.940
longer kind of fully on board with the episode.

829
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:25.139
And I don't know if it's the script or exactly what's happening

830
00:42:25.139 --> 00:42:32.400
there, but it's, it's, you know, Doctor Who always kind of changes

831
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:34.199
tone. you know what I mean?

832
00:42:34.260 --> 00:42:37.199
Like it pivots from comedy to tragedy and all sorts of things all

833
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:39.480
the time and that's one of the things that we really like about

834
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:39.780
it.

835
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:43.679
But for me, I don't think that those that final scene quite

836
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:44.639
lands.

837
00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:46.980
Do you think it just goes on too long?

838
00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:47.940
Maybe.

839
00:42:47.940 --> 00:42:48.840
In terms of all the...

840
00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:49.800
Yeah, agony and pain part.

841
00:42:49.860 --> 00:42:52.139
Maybe, I mean, there's funny things about it.

842
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:54.840
You know, like there are properly funny things about it.

843
00:42:54.900 --> 00:42:57.539
And I do like the interaction with the test selector and stuff.

844
00:42:57.599 --> 00:43:02.880
But I just think, you know, the, it just, it all gets a little bit

845
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:07.920
weepy over a death that we know isn't real and I, I don't know.

846
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:11.579
But I suppose it needs to build to the bit where Rivers giving her

847
00:43:11.579 --> 00:43:13.380
regenerations to the doctor.

848
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:14.880
So...

849
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:17.699
I mean, for me, it's rushed anyway, that sequence.

850
00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:22.500
And so maybe they're just trying to create enough of enough of a

851
00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:23.340
rationale for that.

852
00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:23.880
You're right.

853
00:43:23.940 --> 00:43:29.940
I don't think it's particularly good, but um, Uh, I suppose

854
00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:30.659
they're trying to build.

855
00:43:30.780 --> 00:43:35.760
I really like how it ties into the overall idea in the episode of

856
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:39.000
changing history and interfering with things because the whole

857
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:41.760
plot arc of the series is we saw the doctor die.

858
00:43:41.820 --> 00:43:43.199
We know when it's going to happen.

859
00:43:43.260 --> 00:43:44.760
We're wondering how to get out of it.

860
00:43:44.820 --> 00:43:46.980
And then it just decides to throw a wrench in it and kill them

861
00:43:46.980 --> 00:43:47.219
early.

862
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:50.039
And to see how the characters react to that.

863
00:43:50.099 --> 00:43:53.039
I think it's really satisfying in that way because you know, you

864
00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:55.559
know, in both cases, the doctor's going to get out of it, but by

865
00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:59.280
throwing an extra one in, it sort of gives you a chance to explore

866
00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:00.900
a different reaction from everybody.

867
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:04.019
I think it really is meaningful for River as a character to see

868
00:44:04.019 --> 00:44:07.320
that happen early, given that's the true trajectory, we know she's

869
00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:07.800
always been on.

870
00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:11.820
And I think it works for how the characters bounce off of it.

871
00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:15.719
I think it's a good antidote to what happened last episode because

872
00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:18.960
last episode we kind of come to the conclusion that the doctor is

873
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:23.280
actually a bad man, a good man who goes to war is Rory, and the

874
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:29.099
doctor is a terrifying force who has, by his behaviour, caused

875
00:44:29.099 --> 00:44:35.639
this problem to occur, that people are stealing his friend's baby

876
00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:39.300
to use against him as a weapon because they're terrified of him.

877
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:45.000
And here, the question is asked, is the doctor a good man or not?

878
00:44:45.059 --> 00:44:48.059
Is the doctor worth saving?

879
00:44:48.059 --> 00:44:52.980
and a river is the one who answers yes and is kind of prepared to

880
00:44:52.980 --> 00:44:55.739
do that at a particular cost.

881
00:44:55.800 --> 00:45:02.820
So, you know, the fact that that she kills him and then he rescues

882
00:45:02.820 --> 00:45:07.440
her from the test selector and just allows himself to die.

883
00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:11.099
I think that that actually works.

884
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:15.960
I think there's just something about the tone of it that I don't

885
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:16.199
like.

886
00:45:16.980 --> 00:45:23.099
I mean, I'm not a fan of the whole, uh, trying to paint the doctor

887
00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:27.420
as some ultimate evil in the universe or at least evil.

888
00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:30.960
I mean, yes, it's all great to say, you know, your evil is my good

889
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:32.760
kind of thing.

890
00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:37.440
Um, that aspect of it always works, but but I just think that the

891
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:42.900
series started to go down this, um, unfortunate path where we

892
00:45:42.900 --> 00:45:45.539
start to question whether the doctor is actually a good man, you

893
00:45:45.539 --> 00:45:47.820
know, he is self evidently a very good man.

894
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:51.780
Now we can question and wonder about some of the things that he's

895
00:45:51.780 --> 00:45:55.739
done and some of the consequences of his actions and their

896
00:45:55.739 --> 00:46:01.559
unfortunate outcomes that may spring from that, but I think that

897
00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:05.280
it crosses a line into sort of suggesting that his motivations are

898
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:05.699
impure.

899
00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:08.460
Don't you think it does that or not?

900
00:46:08.699 --> 00:46:10.980
I personally don't.

901
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:15.300
To me, I feel like the idea of the criticism of him in a good man

902
00:46:15.300 --> 00:46:19.139
goes to war and other series within Moffatt and outside.

903
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:22.320
Davies was doing a lot of the same thing was, I feel like it's

904
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:24.960
more questioning the idea of mythologising the doctor than it is

905
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:27.059
questioning the doctor as a character themselves.

906
00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:30.239
Like the doctor is clearly the protagonist.

907
00:46:30.300 --> 00:46:33.059
They're clearly fundamentally good, even if they make mistakes.

908
00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:37.380
But also, this is a TV show with flaws.

909
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:40.139
And we see some of those flaws in some of the episodes.

910
00:46:40.199 --> 00:46:41.760
We see the doctor abandoning people.

911
00:46:41.820 --> 00:46:43.260
We see a lot of that.

912
00:46:43.260 --> 00:46:46.199
And the instinct of the new series is to respond to those gaps and

913
00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:48.000
say, well, what do we make of those?

914
00:46:48.059 --> 00:46:48.719
Yeah.

915
00:46:48.780 --> 00:46:54.539
Yeah, and this is a man that like he, he's a good man, he's trying

916
00:46:54.539 --> 00:47:00.000
to do good in the universe, but quite often he has to take actions

917
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:06.000
which are, terrible to achieve that, you know, wiping out alien

918
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:06.539
races.

919
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:13.559
Like changing people's lives to suit his ends. to save other

920
00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:14.039
people.

921
00:47:14.099 --> 00:47:19.199
Like, they, like, he, he is making these choices, which are, you

922
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:20.820
know, are morally questionable.

923
00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:23.400
For what he thinks for the right reasons.

924
00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:27.539
So I think I don't think that's an overreach, like the questioning

925
00:47:27.539 --> 00:47:31.500
that they keep coming back to in this era, am I a good man?

926
00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:33.539
I think that's a good character beat.

927
00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:37.619
It's saying, you know, he actually does have some interiority.

928
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:43.380
Yeah, that these, I think that, I think that Kevin nails it, these

929
00:47:43.380 --> 00:47:46.019
things that happen that just because it's a sort of adventure

930
00:47:46.019 --> 00:47:51.059
genre program, where we defeat villains at the end and where the

931
00:47:51.059 --> 00:47:54.300
you know, companions leave when their contract runs out, what

932
00:47:54.300 --> 00:47:57.420
happens if all of that's happening in a real world to a real

933
00:47:57.420 --> 00:47:59.519
character, what does that make that character?

934
00:47:59.579 --> 00:48:03.960
There is a problem in that, and we say this in our last episode.

935
00:48:04.019 --> 00:48:06.840
The doctor can't really learn from that because he's still going

936
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:10.199
to be in a genre program of that kind.

937
00:48:10.260 --> 00:48:13.920
So we're not going to see some great reformation where he decides

938
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:15.539
to not do that anymore.

939
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:18.480
But it does make it interesting.

940
00:48:18.539 --> 00:48:22.199
And I do think it's telling that in a few seasons time when the

941
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:27.059
show really kind of abandons that idea, I do think it suffers as a

942
00:48:27.059 --> 00:48:27.239
result.

943
00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:40.019
One of the other things that kind of disappoints me a bit about

944
00:48:40.019 --> 00:48:45.840
this episode is, I feel like it rushes through what could have

945
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:51.539
been a really interesting story of Mel's becoming river and the

946
00:48:51.539 --> 00:48:54.480
woman who attempts to kill the doctor or does kill a doctor.

947
00:48:54.539 --> 00:48:59.460
I think that it all happens so fast, and it's a wasted opportunity

948
00:48:59.460 --> 00:48:59.820
there.

949
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:02.219
I think it would have been much more interesting for those events

950
00:49:02.219 --> 00:49:07.559
to happen, but to have been split across, say, just say 3 episodes

951
00:49:07.619 --> 00:49:10.139
you know half a season apart from each other.

952
00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:14.940
Now, maybe that stretches the river song thing out too much and it

953
00:49:14.940 --> 00:49:18.719
would have been too self-indulgent, but I just feel it's too

954
00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:18.900
quick.

955
00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:19.860
I agree.

956
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:21.659
I mean, I love this series.

957
00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:24.420
I'm on the record saying it's my favourite as I did at the top of

958
00:49:24.420 --> 00:49:24.659
this.

959
00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:27.059
I do think we could have used more of Mel's.

960
00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:28.380
We could have used more of that.

961
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:31.920
And I'm still disappointed we never got a story of River and Mel's

962
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:32.579
interacting together.

963
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:33.900
We can do 2 doctors.

964
00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:34.920
Why not 2 rivers?

965
00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:39.000
I mean, Big Finish kind of did it, but they wiggled out of it.

966
00:49:39.059 --> 00:49:39.659
It was good though.

967
00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:42.900
There's so many opportunities there.

968
00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:46.079
This episode sets up more good ideas than it has time to spend

969
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:46.679
with.

970
00:49:46.739 --> 00:49:50.219
And that's a bit of a shame, but I prefer Doctor Who with having

971
00:49:50.219 --> 00:49:53.639
too many ideas to give full focus to all of them than to not

972
00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:55.019
having the ideas in the 1st place.

973
00:49:55.079 --> 00:49:57.900
Oh, it's being dull is the ultimate crime.

974
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:24.840
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.

975
00:50:24.900 --> 00:50:28.860
You'll be back next week for a very middle class excursion to one

976
00:50:28.860 --> 00:50:33.059
of England's most scenic housing estates in night terrors.

977
00:50:33.059 --> 00:50:37.679
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

978
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:39.960
and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook

979
00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:43.739
at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website

980
00:50:43.739 --> 00:50:46.800
FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other

981
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:52.139
podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody InterTara, maximum power, and untitled

982
00:50:52.139 --> 00:50:53.460
Star Trek Project.

983
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:56.760
Kevin, where can people find you?

984
00:50:56.820 --> 00:51:01.260
Well, I am still tweeting embarrassing tweets away at Scribble

985
00:51:01.260 --> 00:51:02.340
Script on Twitter.

986
00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:05.400
I am so sorry for any of you who follow me already, but please

987
00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:06.239
follow me if you don't.

988
00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:11.400
And at some point, I will be announcing the, uh, well, I'll be

989
00:51:11.400 --> 00:51:14.400
sharing the link to buy the faction paradox book, which I'm

990
00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:15.360
writing a short story for.

991
00:51:15.420 --> 00:51:17.099
I just sent off the 2nd draft this week.

992
00:51:17.219 --> 00:51:21.000
And so hopefully progress will happen on that soon.

993
00:51:21.059 --> 00:51:23.579
I do not know the mines behind it.

994
00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:25.559
I just know I'm feeling kind of proud of what I did.

995
00:51:26.460 --> 00:51:30.840
Until next time, remember that it is normal to experience fear

996
00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:32.760
during your incineration.

997
00:51:32.820 --> 00:51:36.719
Please remain calm and thank you very much for listening and good

998
00:51:36.719 --> 00:51:37.019
night.

999
00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:38.340
Good death.

1000
00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:39.539
See you soon.

1001
00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:40.380
Good night.

1002
00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:47.760
That was Flight 3 entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Kevin

1003
00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:49.860
Bernard, Simon Moore and James Selwood.

1004
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:51.900
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lann.

1005
00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:55.739
This episode, Tried and True Tropes, was recorded on the 22nd of

1006
00:51:55.739 --> 00:51:58.559
August 2021 and released on the 7th of November.

1007
00:51:59.940 --> 00:52:04.079
As you heard me suggest me a seconds ago, we have just released a

1008
00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:08.099
new commentary podcast called Untitled Star Trek Project, in which

1009
00:52:08.099 --> 00:52:11.400
friend of the podcast Joe Ford and I watch and discuss a randomly

1010
00:52:11.400 --> 00:52:13.920
chosen episode from any Star Trek series.

1011
00:52:14.039 --> 00:52:19.019
You can find it at Untitled Star Trek Project.com or wherever good

1012
00:52:19.019 --> 00:52:20.400
podcasts can be found.

1013
00:52:20.820 --> 00:52:22.920
I think that's the out.

1014
00:52:26.099 --> 00:52:26.460
Yeah.

1015
00:52:26.519 --> 00:52:27.780
No, I think that's the app.

1016
00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:28.380
What do you reckon?

1017
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:30.659
Yes, yes, that is the out.

1018
00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:36.960
Like, you know, it seemed the very end with the professor at Lunar

1019
00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:37.440
University.

1020
00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:41.579
That's actually a reference to a short story he wrote for Declog

1021
00:52:41.579 --> 00:52:41.820
3.

1022
00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:44.820
The mid 90s.

1023
00:52:45.360 --> 00:52:47.280
I love that fact.

1024
00:52:47.940 --> 00:52:50.460
Mm, Professor Candy.

1025
00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:51.360
Yes.

1026
00:52:51.420 --> 00:52:54.119
Actually, the character, the character was also in Paul

1027
00:52:54.119 --> 00:52:54.900
Cornell's.

1028
00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:57.300
Oh no, it isn't the 1st Bernie Summerfield, the whole.

1029
00:52:57.360 --> 00:52:58.139
I think is the 1st one.

1030
00:52:58.199 --> 00:53:01.980
And that character spends the entire story as a panto drag queen

1031
00:53:01.980 --> 00:53:04.079
which is, I think, a very important fact.

1032
00:53:04.980 --> 00:53:09.719
It said like the 1st episode with Chris in the new adventures, the

1033
00:53:09.719 --> 00:53:13.199
1st book where he's like been body grafted into a big giant teddy

1034
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:13.500
bear.

1035
00:53:13.980 --> 00:53:18.900
This is the 2nd this is the 2nd this is the 2nd episode in a row

1036
00:53:18.900 --> 00:53:23.940
where Moffat's plundered his ideas from his from his childhood.

1037
00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:28.980
And to this day, isn't Professor Candy the only character to

1038
00:53:28.980 --> 00:53:33.000
graduate from the tie-in books and comics and stuff to the TV

1039
00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:34.139
show?

1040
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:38.760
Well, Nathan didn't make it across. from Human Nature in the TV

1041
00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:39.059
show.

1042
00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:44.400
I was so I was so integral to the book of human nature.

1043
00:53:44.460 --> 00:53:45.480
You're never speaking of people.

1044
00:53:45.900 --> 00:53:49.260
That I didn't make it into the actual thing, ever.

1045
00:53:50.639 --> 00:53:52.079
Okay.

1046
00:53:52.139 --> 00:53:52.980
All right.

1047
00:53:53.039 --> 00:53:56.340
Well, we'll do an outro and Kevin, I'll do the, where can people

1048
00:53:56.340 --> 00:53:58.440
find you and you can plug something?

1049
00:53:59.039 --> 00:54:00.539
All right.

1050
00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:01.380
Whatever you like.

1051
00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:02.400
Okay, here goes.

1052
00:54:02.940 --> 00:54:05.219
Is it night terrors next?

1053
00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:06.300
I think it's Night Terrace next.

1054
00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:06.960
Yes it is.

1055
00:54:07.019 --> 00:54:08.880
Yes, I am so sorry for you.

1056
00:54:08.940 --> 00:54:10.739
I'm so glad I don't have to do it.

1057
00:54:13.739 --> 00:54:17.099
Wealthy listener, that's all we have time for this week.