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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:36:30

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast now with realistic human genitalia.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Peter.

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I'm Corey.

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Well, we've been trapped in this rift for nearly a month now, and

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the crew of the USS Britain have made no effort at all to lighten

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our mood.

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As we descend into chaos and madness.

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It looks like only Councillor Troy's one moon circling can save us

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from our night terrors.

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Looked like a full moon to me.

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So, Corey, we haven't spoken on the podcast before, and I was kind

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of hoping that you might give us a bit of an idea of how you've

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been finding series 6.

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Well, as some members of this podcast are fully where I am a huge

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fan of Matt Smith, probably inappropriately so.

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And I love series 5 and I revisit it often.

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I haven't seen series 6 for, I think about 5 years.

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It's been that long since I've seen it.

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So sitting down and revisiting this series in preparation for this

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podcast.

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I was pretty underwhelmed, I have to say.

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I mean, I can see the ambition.

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But it feels to me like it falls short of the mark with most of

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the episodes.

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There are a few obvious exceptions, which you've obviously

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discussed so far in the podcast and there are some to come.

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But overall, it feels like it just falls short of the mark with at

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every step.

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And so it's it's disappointing and some of it's actually

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controversially a bit boring.

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So it'll be interesting to see where this conversation goes

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today.

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There is no inappropriate love of Matt Smith.

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There's only an inappropriate love of like William Harnell, you

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know.

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We'll talk about that later.

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Jolly good smack bottom, Corey.

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So we are back in a council estate for the very 1st time for a

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while.

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And I think, hmm, it feels different this time.

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It's been commented on the council estate under Russell, was a

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place of kind of warmth and home and community, but under Stephen

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and Mark Gaitis, It sort of a bit cold and grim and other place, no

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one smiles and people are sort of perpetually suspicious.

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I mean, I do think that Stevens version is probably a little

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closer to reality.

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I think what you say about other is right, actually.

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And and, uh, I mean, I don't know if we want to get into the weeds

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too early, but there's a sense that with the RTD era, there was a

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real, um, empathy and an understanding and, um, almost a love for

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that world.

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But here it feels, I have some real problems with this episode

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because it feels to me like there's some issues around class and

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how the story engages with working class people.

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I love Matt Smith, but his doctor is quite posh.

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He's a private schoolboy, and he seems to swoop in and fix the

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working class people and then take off again.

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And that's problematic, I think.

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I think it's particularly apparent.

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Firstly, that, uh, Amy and Rory at least seem quite disappointed

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to have turned up here.

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You know, they're hoping for sort of history and planets and

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things, and instead we're in this sort of council estate.

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And all of them.

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It's not just mad.

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It is all of them who kind of approach the residents of the estate

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as kind of middle class saviours.

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They sort of turn up as if they're sort of social workers and

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they're interrogating them about their sort of personal lives.

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And they all get the door slammed in their face one after the

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other.

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This is a place that they don't belong.

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And so in RTD's era, the council estate was home.

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And, you know, there's a sense in which they were sort of slightly

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comedy working class characters, but they were our regulars and we

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sort of grew to love them and to kind of understand them.

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And even when the companion went middle class in series 3, that

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the blow was softened by the fact that the family was black.

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And in series four, Donna, you know, is she is middle class, but

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they're not super well off or anything like that.

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And so Russell was very keen to ensure that Doctor Who wasn't just

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the middle class concern it had been during the classic series, but

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now we're back there, I think.

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And that is an alien world.

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It does kind of mirror the experience of fans as well.

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Long-term fans when the show came back, they were like, what are

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we doing on this council estate?

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We want pseudo-historicals, damn it.

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Yeah, we want reporters for Metropolitan magazine and air

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hostesses and computer programmers, you know, vaguely sort of

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idealistic jobs, you know, we don't want someone who just works in

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a shop was kind of the thing. you know, I remember people going on

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about, oh, well, what, you know, what's special about Rose?

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She works in a shop.

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You know, she's not a teenage demolitions expert or a computer

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programmer from Peace Pottage sort of thing.

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So yeah, there was a sort of snobbery.

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I think, yeah, going on.

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And it shows how middle-class our characters are when Rory kind of

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comes out of the Tatus and sort of sniffs a bit and proclaims it

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to be a place they could get the bus to.

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And later in the episode, he calls it EastEnders land.

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Yeah, which is a weird comparison because EastEnders is old

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EastEnders. high rise council estates.

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It's just very expensive old terraces with about 10 bedrooms.

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I think, though, that that's a sort of fanish reaction as well to

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the early RTD era was, you know, because he's using a lot of the

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sort of tropes and sort of character beats that you find in a soap

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opera.

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People were comparing it to EastEnders as a sort of form of

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criticism.

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Doctor Who is now set in EastEndersland rather than in sort of a

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fake secret military organisation or something.

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Like a lesser drama.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And so I think I think there's that.

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I think, I think also, though, one of the reasons why the council

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estate seems so forbidding is that we sort of have a bit of a case

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of German expressionism, I think, in some senses, it's made to

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look as scary as possible because we're seeing it through George's

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eyes.

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And remember that the moment the problem is solved, the council

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estate looks quite different.

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You know, it's sunny.

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It's much less forbidding and frightening.

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Yeah, see, I think another big part of it is we've got Mark Gatis

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writing.

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And if you look at something like League of Gentlemen, Mark Gaters

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often takes his settings and turns them into something grotesque.

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English villages are not like, say, Midsomer Murders, but they're

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also not like the League of Gentlemen, the truth-wise somewhere in

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between.

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So Mark Gate has given a housing estate like this, he's going to

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amplify the negative perceptions of it.

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And in a way that is a little bit different to doing that to an

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English village because, you know, part of the appeal of something

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like Midsomer Murders is seeing posh people get killed by

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forklifts in a jam factory.

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But I hope that's a real example, Brendan.

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That is real example.

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That is a real example actually.

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I can't remember if that was real Barnaby or fake Barnaby, but

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anyway, um...

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But here, yeah, it's...

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It's a little bit punching down. which is which is a bit

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uncomfortable.

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But that being said, you do have Alex and Claire, who are lovely

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sympathetic characters.

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And even Elsie, the little old lady.

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I love her.

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Because no one else looks after the estate and I've got to go up

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and down with me bad knees.

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I'm getting them replaced soon.

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You know, I actually really, really think that the portrayal of

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Elsie is incredibly mean-spirited and I dislike it enormously.

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She's not a very she's not a particularly likeable character at

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all, actually.

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No, she's the most unloveable long hag we've had since Dodo.

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It's not that though.

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She's such a tedious stereotype.

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You know, it's such a sort of trite observation that old people go

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on about their knees and their hips and their tablets and stuff

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like that and that they don't, you know, like I do it myself.

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They're suspicious of young people and all of that sort of thing.

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So she is just a sort of very tired collection of stereotypical

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tropes.

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And I actually think that like pulling her into those garbage bags

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there's just something kind of a bit nasty and mean-spirited

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punching down again, I think, is the problem here.

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That journey into the garbage bags didn't do her rips any good, did

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it?

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I actually think the supporting characters are pretty thinly

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drawn.

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Purcell is another example of that.

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In fact, you could take Purcell out of the story and you wouldn't

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miss him at all.

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I couldn't quite see why he was there, to be honest.

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Other than for us to see the consequences of George's, um, you

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know, what George does to the manifestations of his anxiety.

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I mean, sure we see that, and yes, he's turned into a doll towards

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the end of the episode, but I couldn't really see what the point

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of him was, to be honest.

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So both actors, I think, are working with very thin material, I

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think, for both of those characters.

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I think there's a whole juxtaposition going on in this episode

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between the modern council estate and the Victorian world, and so

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you get it, obviously, between the estate and the dollhouse.

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But then the estate is filled with grotesque characters, like Mrs

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Rossiter and Purcell, because it's not how the real world works.

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So in the real world, council estates don't have a landlord, who's

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kind of there, you pay the rent to the council, or you bought your

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flats off the government in the 80s under Thatcher.

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There's not a menacing man with a dog who owns the half place and

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turns up demanding his rent.

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But I quite like that.

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I like that odd sort of middle class idea of what a counsellor

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state is.

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I think he does manage to be properly scary in that scene where he

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sort of comes in and threatens Alex and he does do that mixture of

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genial and threatening.

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And I adore the scene where he gets sucked into the carpet and the

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dog just completely fails to react.

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The dog doesn't care.

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Do you see a horrible image of your future there, Nathan?

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And we have the wonderful Doctor Who tradition of, you know, oh

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I've got this big dog.

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And anytime he cuts the dog, it is the most placid, adorable thing

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on earth with a browl being dubbed over the top, like in canine

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company.

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On the topic of Purcell.

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I agree with you, Corey, that he's just sort of there to provide a

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bit of fake drama, which adds texture to the family, but there's

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no sort of payoff and like, you know, he's hugging the dog at the

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end, but there's no implication that, you know, it's Christmas

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morning and Scrooge is going to be nicer to Bob Cratchit kind of

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thing.

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And reading up on the development of the script, Mark Gaters has

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actually said that Purcell is based and named after his high

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school PE teacher whom Mark hated and had been waiting 25 years to

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find an appropriate character in a script to base him on and then

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have him melt into the floor and turned into a doll.

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So I think that's just a good writer's catharsis there.

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In that case, he can stay as far as I'm concerned.

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I'm glad he was there for good story reasons.

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I mean, while we're talking about acting, how do we feel that the

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little kid does here?

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Because, you know, we have had a few children, I think, in the

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Moffat era, and the last time I think we had anyone sort of really

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significant, we thought he was really pretty great, the boy in

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Curse of the Black Spot, who played Toby, who sort of managed to

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hold his own against Hugh Bonneville.

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How do we feel that the child actor portraying George does here?

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He blinks really well.

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It's sort of a weird thing of, you know, his characterisation is

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quite wooden because, yeah, he doesn't quite fit and he doesn't

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quite belong.

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And the problem with giving that role to a child is you're left

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wondering if they're really, really good at playing wooden.

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Or if they're just wouldn't.

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And I think he's, I think it's a performance.

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I think it is a performance choice and he convinces me as a scared

245
00:14:16.980 --> 00:14:17.460
little boy.

246
00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:24.419
I think the direction actually has a sort of pretty significant

247
00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:26.519
role in the way that he's portrayed.

248
00:14:26.580 --> 00:14:30.120
And so things like, you know, increasing the sound of him

249
00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:32.460
breathing, having him blink.

250
00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:35.519
Because this is Richard Clark, Peter.

251
00:14:35.580 --> 00:14:38.519
It is, and he did the doctor's wife as well, didn't he?

252
00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:40.019
Yeah, he did.

253
00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:40.500
He did.

254
00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:42.600
And Gridlock and Lazarus experiment.

255
00:14:42.659 --> 00:14:45.600
And I think he does a really tremendously good job here.

256
00:14:45.659 --> 00:14:49.500
I think, you know, the visuals are really quite impressive.

257
00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:54.000
But I also think he manages to coax a reasonable performance out

258
00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:58.620
of this kid, just by sort of restricting the things that he needs

259
00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:05.940
to do and by relying on conveying his emotions, not just through

260
00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:09.600
the kid's performance, but through the way that his world is

261
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:10.320
presented.

262
00:15:10.379 --> 00:15:14.100
We know what George is feeling because we see what he sees and

263
00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:16.379
what he sees are these sort of ordinary things.

264
00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:17.759
Are they ordinary?

265
00:15:17.820 --> 00:15:24.360
These strangely sort of anachronistic things that furnish his

266
00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:24.779
bedroom?

267
00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:26.279
All frightening.

268
00:15:26.340 --> 00:15:32.639
And so because Clark makes the world George's world, you know

269
00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:36.720
we're able, I think, to kind of have a better handle on that

270
00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:40.919
character than maybe the performance was capable of conveying.

271
00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:45.659
I think there can be a problem with kids that age, um, where it

272
00:15:45.659 --> 00:15:47.820
can be a little bit hit and miss and a lot of it does depend on

273
00:15:47.820 --> 00:15:48.539
the direction.

274
00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:50.519
But when you just go very slightly older.

275
00:15:50.580 --> 00:15:52.860
So I think George is probably about 8 years old.

276
00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:57.000
When you go a bit older to Toby in Curse the Blackspot or Caitlin

277
00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:57.600
Blackwood.

278
00:15:57.659 --> 00:16:00.840
You just can get a more nuanced performance from them.

279
00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:02.399
Yeah.

280
00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:03.179
Yeah.

281
00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:06.059
He seems younger than eight, but I'm not very good at judging that

282
00:16:06.059 --> 00:16:09.179
but he is 8 in the dialogue, I think.

283
00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:10.139
Yeah.

284
00:16:10.259 --> 00:16:12.840
And what you said about Richard Clark is true.

285
00:16:12.899 --> 00:16:16.379
I mean, he puts some really great images on the screen, that

286
00:16:16.379 --> 00:16:20.340
location that they found for the estate looks incredible.

287
00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:23.879
Those wide shots where it just all looks like a puzzle box that's

288
00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:27.600
been kind of put together, is incredible, like a weird jigsaw.

289
00:16:27.659 --> 00:16:32.940
And again, that juxtaposition with the Victorian kind of tropes.

290
00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:36.179
It looks like some kind of hellish factory because it's behind

291
00:16:36.179 --> 00:16:40.740
gates and high walls and there's barbed wire on kind of the ground

292
00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:41.279
floor.

293
00:16:41.340 --> 00:16:43.620
So it's a really weird and interesting look.

294
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:48.720
I think it's beautifully shot and lit.

295
00:16:48.779 --> 00:16:51.480
I think it's a case of the director and the director of

296
00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:57.000
photography really working together well to make what is a pretty

297
00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:01.679
ugly structure, quite beautiful, and the palate that's used in the

298
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:05.880
episode, the yellows, the oranges, the greens, the browns

299
00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:08.640
particularly when we get inside Alex's flat.

300
00:17:08.700 --> 00:17:11.819
I mean, it's the production design, it all just comes together

301
00:17:11.819 --> 00:17:13.799
really well on that front, I think.

302
00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.759
Yeah, so I think it's the housing estate looks quite amazing.

303
00:17:17.819 --> 00:17:18.359
Yeah.

304
00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:21.299
And it reminds me for Jeffrey Smart painting.

305
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:25.440
There's a tiny image of Matt in the bottom right hand corner of a

306
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:29.640
lonely man in a huge sort of urban landscape, and it's very much

307
00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:31.500
like a Jeffrey Smart painting as well.

308
00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:32.400
It looks brilliant.

309
00:17:32.460 --> 00:17:36.000
I just remember being sort of particularly struck by how the

310
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:40.440
TARDIS appears, and maybe this has been done before, but the

311
00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:45.599
TARDIS materialises as a reflection in a puddle, and then focus is

312
00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:49.500
pulled as people come out, you know, like there's a very, you know

313
00:17:49.500 --> 00:17:57.839
the shots are interestingly composed, and it does make, well, it

314
00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:02.160
does contribute to making the estate somewhere kind of

315
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:02.940
threatening.

316
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:03.900
We're not doing history.

317
00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.680
We're not doing a planet, but we are doing something that is just

318
00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:10.019
as weird, I think.

319
00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:12.359
That shop is beautiful.

320
00:18:12.420 --> 00:18:15.240
It actually, I really enjoyed it as it was happening.

321
00:18:15.299 --> 00:18:18.839
And I cast my mind back and I think I can't verify that the only

322
00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:20.519
other time it's been done is in the war games.

323
00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:25.559
Yes, you may well be right there, I think.

324
00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:29.880
The other thing I find quite unsettling about the design work is

325
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.779
the 2 interiors of the flats that we see.

326
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:41.640
The decor is still sort of the original, presumably 1970s kind of

327
00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:45.900
decor because the physical location is a 1970s tower block.

328
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:49.680
And so they seem to have gone with the decision that this place

329
00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:52.500
was set up and then it's just been left.

330
00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:55.019
You know, nothing's ever been updated.

331
00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:57.480
There's 1970s wallpaper everywhere.

332
00:18:57.539 --> 00:18:59.579
Even when we go to Purcell.

333
00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:03.599
I think he's got like a flat screen TV, but things like his hi-fi

334
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:06.359
and whatnot are older models.

335
00:19:06.420 --> 00:19:09.779
And also, Brendan, those weird anachronisms like the serving

336
00:19:09.779 --> 00:19:10.859
window into the kitchen.

337
00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:12.660
Yeah, yeah.

338
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:15.480
There's one of those in Rose's Flat in Rose, isn't there?

339
00:19:15.539 --> 00:19:16.559
Exactly.

340
00:19:16.619 --> 00:19:19.140
Like, you know, that is a standard feature of when the block was

341
00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:19.440
built.

342
00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:21.839
But if you look at Rose and Jackie's flat, you know, they've

343
00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:25.500
obviously repainted Jackie likes her pinks and her reds, so that's

344
00:19:25.500 --> 00:19:27.900
what they've gone for. in the 1st season.

345
00:19:29.339 --> 00:19:36.180
Whereas here, you've got the 1970s sort of patterned, as you say

346
00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:39.480
Corey, the greens and the yellows wallpaper, those slightly sickly

347
00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:39.960
colours.

348
00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:45.359
And, you know, George's room, it's not like a nice blue paint, like

349
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:46.859
you might find in a child's bedroom.

350
00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:49.500
I think I had a similar shade, but in green as a kid.

351
00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:53.579
It's old sort of nature wallpaper.

352
00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:58.500
And he's got the sort of 1920s, 1930s wardrobe as well.

353
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:02.460
And then you have, as you say, Nathan, all the modern toys, and it

354
00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:04.680
just all creates this feeling of unease.

355
00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:10.619
I have this horrible memory which has just surfaced.

356
00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:13.859
And I think it must have been staying in.

357
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.180
There's one grandparent that I used to stay with sort of

358
00:20:18.180 --> 00:20:22.799
reasonably regularly, but there was like a great grandmother.

359
00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:26.279
I think I stayed in my great grandmother's house and she had that

360
00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:32.339
weird old, is it Deco, that sort of weird old furniture, which I

361
00:20:32.339 --> 00:20:33.960
actually found really threatening.

362
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:38.579
Um, and I'm not quite sure about the smell of it as well, wasn't

363
00:20:38.579 --> 00:20:38.700
there?

364
00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:40.980
Yeah, yeah, there's something sort of uneasy about it.

365
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:43.140
I mean, this is Mark Gatis's wheelhouse, right?

366
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:46.259
He's sort of mid-20th century stuff.

367
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:49.680
The aesthetic of League of Gentlemen was very similar.

368
00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:54.420
Everything was sort of very old and kind of garish and bad taste.

369
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:56.819
And I think that bedroom is terrifying.

370
00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:00.960
I mean, I know it's terrifying because it's meant to convey the

371
00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:02.460
fact that George is scared.

372
00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:05.700
But like, I don't know why Alex doesn't just look at the bedroom

373
00:21:05.700 --> 00:21:10.380
and say, holy crap, these things are all incredibly frightening

374
00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:12.420
and they need to be put away somewhere.

375
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.480
That's why they just kissed it out the bedroom for IKEA.

376
00:21:15.539 --> 00:21:16.259
It would have been fine.

377
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:18.000
That's right.

378
00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:19.859
It's so horrible.

379
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:21.599
I mean, it is so horrible.

380
00:21:21.660 --> 00:21:23.160
No wonder the kids' scared.

381
00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:25.380
And the toys aren't modern, are they?

382
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:30.660
I mean, they're sort of like the crummy wind up robots and all of

383
00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:31.380
that sort of thing.

384
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:36.119
Again, these are the toys of Gatus's childhood and not of any kid

385
00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:36.960
now, I think.

386
00:21:37.140 --> 00:21:42.059
I really like the aesthetic focus of these episodes. everything

387
00:21:42.059 --> 00:21:45.119
like the toys and the room, they all fit together really well.

388
00:21:45.180 --> 00:21:47.700
And so it helps to create a really defined world.

389
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:51.180
I mean, it is a little bit subdued, I think.

390
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:55.380
It could have had a dash of Paradise Towers, kind of, you know

391
00:21:55.380 --> 00:21:58.859
madcap look, which is the last time we visited a high rise in

392
00:21:58.859 --> 00:21:59.460
Doctor Who.

393
00:21:59.579 --> 00:22:01.380
Um, but I like it.

394
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:03.059
I think it really works kind of well.

395
00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:06.480
And like you say, it's that unsettling world where it's meant to

396
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:10.079
be something which is modern and which we recognise, but it's kind

397
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:10.440
of not.

398
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:12.839
Yeah, yeah.

399
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:30.539
I'd love to hear what you guys think about the TARDIS team

400
00:22:30.539 --> 00:22:31.380
themselves.

401
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:37.319
I find them all slightly out of character in this story.

402
00:22:37.380 --> 00:22:41.700
Matt isn't particularly nice to Alex at all throughout the entire

403
00:22:41.700 --> 00:22:43.440
story, the way he talks to him.

404
00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:49.440
There's normally such energy and enthusiasm and um, and spark in

405
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:52.619
Matt, but it feels like he's working against dialogue that he

406
00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:54.299
doesn't feel entirely comfortable saying.

407
00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:56.519
I don't know what everyone else feels about this.

408
00:22:56.579 --> 00:23:00.480
And Rory is sort of annoyingly obtuse a lot of the time.

409
00:23:00.539 --> 00:23:04.140
Um, he seems to just dismiss what's happening around him.

410
00:23:04.140 --> 00:23:08.220
And yet, If we're to look at where the episode sits in the season

411
00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:12.059
he's gone through a lot in the episodes leading up to this point.

412
00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:14.579
So you'd think he'd be a little bit more adept at handling time

413
00:23:14.579 --> 00:23:14.940
travel.

414
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.720
Of course, we know it was filmed 1st and due to go out very early

415
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:19.500
in the season.

416
00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:22.319
So you could probably forgive it for that, that actually he's

417
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:25.920
probably still on his pee plates, I guess, if it's earlier in the

418
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:26.220
season.

419
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:28.559
But because it's placed in the 2nd half of the season.

420
00:23:28.619 --> 00:23:32.099
I just really struggled with the idea that he was like, oh, we're

421
00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:35.220
dead, and Amy was having to always bring him back on track and get

422
00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:37.019
him to sort of focus on what was happening.

423
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:40.619
If it weren't for her, I think Rory would have been a real mess in

424
00:23:40.619 --> 00:23:41.160
the episode.

425
00:23:41.220 --> 00:23:43.259
So I'd love to hear what people think about that.

426
00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:47.519
Corey, I was thinking exactly the same thing as I was watching it

427
00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:49.500
because Amy and Rory have just been through an ordeal.

428
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:52.500
You know, they've lost their daughter and the whole Mel's river

429
00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:53.819
kind of revelation.

430
00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:57.599
But here they kind of shrug off the idea of a child in distress

431
00:23:57.599 --> 00:23:59.519
and Rory even cracks a joke about it.

432
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:04.019
And so it is an artefact of the swap in the running order, but

433
00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:06.720
it's a good reason why Doctor Who shouldn't tackle those kind of

434
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:09.839
big traumatic ideas like losing a child, which aren't a good fit

435
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:12.420
for it because you need follow through that it doesn't really

436
00:24:12.420 --> 00:24:12.720
get.

437
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:14.460
No.

438
00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:19.440
I mean, the arc, even though it turns up in just about every

439
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:23.400
episode, we're reminded of some important element of the arc in

440
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:26.700
just about every episode, and that does happen here where the sort

441
00:24:26.700 --> 00:24:31.440
of nursery rhyme that's been in the soundtrack appears over the

442
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:34.859
screen readout of Lake Silencio in the very final scene.

443
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:38.279
So, but generally speaking, the arc doesn't intrude on the

444
00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:41.279
individual episodes apart from little moments like that.

445
00:24:41.339 --> 00:24:44.400
And here it is, I think, a problem.

446
00:24:44.460 --> 00:24:48.420
I think it is a problem that we're just off on jolly adventures

447
00:24:48.420 --> 00:24:48.720
again.

448
00:24:48.779 --> 00:24:51.539
And the horrible trauma that Amy's been through is just not

449
00:24:51.539 --> 00:24:52.319
addressed at all.

450
00:24:52.380 --> 00:24:54.359
And he doesn't want to address it.

451
00:24:54.420 --> 00:24:58.140
He doesn't want this to be a show about a woman who's lost her

452
00:24:58.140 --> 00:25:03.299
child because that's not what Doctor Who can handle and Doctor Who

453
00:25:03.299 --> 00:25:07.259
is a sort of family adventure fantasy show.

454
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:12.299
So maybe the losing a child wasn't a good fit for the show in the

455
00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:13.079
1st place.

456
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:14.640
Yeah.

457
00:25:14.700 --> 00:25:15.420
Yeah.

458
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:18.119
And, you know, we will see in a couple of seasons where Stephen

459
00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:21.299
Moffatt goes, okay, no, let's, you know, if I put a character

460
00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:24.059
through trauma, let's address that for a whole season and that

461
00:25:24.059 --> 00:25:25.380
brings its own problems as well.

462
00:25:25.740 --> 00:25:30.420
The moment I find Rory so out of character in this is actually

463
00:25:30.420 --> 00:25:33.539
when he says, oh, maybe we should leave the kid to the monsters.

464
00:25:33.660 --> 00:25:34.680
Yeah.

465
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:39.359
There's not even considering like this is after, you know, they've

466
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:40.200
lost melody.

467
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:44.279
That just seems such a weird thing for Rory to say, and it's

468
00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:47.880
literally just there for George to overhear so that Rory and Amy

469
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:49.440
are someone he's scared of.

470
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:53.220
And so he'll put them in the dollhouse.

471
00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:58.680
And the funny thing is, I look at that and I go, Actually, I can

472
00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:00.539
imagine Amy saying that more.

473
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:04.799
Like Amy is a bit more flippant like that, whereas Rory is usually

474
00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:07.799
the one to go, well, no, we need to be more cautious, et cetera, et

475
00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:08.160
cetera.

476
00:26:08.220 --> 00:26:10.619
And he's been set up as more empathetic, hasn't he?

477
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:11.819
Yeah exactly.

478
00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:16.680
I will admit that I still laugh a great deal when he sits up in

479
00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:18.599
the dollhouse and says, oh, we're dead again.

480
00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:21.000
Again.

481
00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:25.440
Because that was something I had a very polite argument about with

482
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:28.140
Tom Spielsbury on Twitter once.

483
00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:30.299
He's like, Rory and Amy don't die that often.

484
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:31.799
I'm like, here's a spreadsheet.

485
00:26:31.859 --> 00:26:36.119
They don't have that as much as Harry Kim, but...

486
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:37.980
Because my answer do everything as a spreadsheet.

487
00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:40.980
It's interesting because, of course, Arthur Darville plays that

488
00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:45.839
perfectly well because he's a very good actor, but he, yeah, he

489
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:49.740
still turned into sort of Harry Sullivan at his most buffoonish

490
00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:52.859
for, for much of this.

491
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:56.640
And it is just a bit of a weird choice.

492
00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:00.000
And that line about, um, you know, maybe we should leave him to

493
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:00.539
the monsters.

494
00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:02.940
It actually replaced something else where when they were initially

495
00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:05.640
going up and having doors slammed in their face.

496
00:27:05.700 --> 00:27:07.920
When they got back together, Rory said, well, you know, no one

497
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:09.900
likes being knocked up in the middle of the night.

498
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:12.779
It's like those people who knock your door to talk to you about

499
00:27:12.779 --> 00:27:13.140
God.

500
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:15.720
And the doctor's like, oh, yes, them, and they have this

501
00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:18.480
conversation where the doctor implies that anyone who does that is

502
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:19.740
actually an alien.

503
00:27:21.420 --> 00:27:27.059
And George overhears that and associates that with Rory and Amy

504
00:27:27.059 --> 00:27:31.140
but, um, Stephen Moffat eventually said, you know, let's not annoy

505
00:27:31.140 --> 00:27:34.259
um, you know, Jehovah's Witnesses and people who go around doing

506
00:27:34.259 --> 00:27:35.880
that door knocking or what have you.

507
00:27:35.940 --> 00:27:37.559
And Mark Gater said in an interview.

508
00:27:37.619 --> 00:27:40.140
I got away with it for 5 drafts. 5 drafts.

509
00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:41.460
I didn't think I'd get past one.

510
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:46.619
Um, And then and then at the end of the story, um, as Dr. Amy and

511
00:27:46.619 --> 00:27:49.619
Rory are leaving, there was going to be a man and a woman knocking

512
00:27:49.619 --> 00:27:53.160
on a door and saying to the 2 twins, is mummy home and handing

513
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:54.299
them a leaflet?

514
00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:58.319
You know, slightly livid.

515
00:27:58.380 --> 00:27:59.880
Slightly laboured.

516
00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:01.140
Probably an element too far.

517
00:28:01.619 --> 00:28:06.240
But yeah, it does it does give us then this contrivance that Rory

518
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:10.440
suddenly has to be this insensitive, slightly panicky idiot, you

519
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:10.740
know.

520
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:14.640
He's sort of given, he's sort of given the dodo role, really.

521
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:19.740
I think that they are shunted into a subplot that is completely

522
00:28:19.740 --> 00:28:26.279
weightless and is merely just atmosphere and sort of standard

523
00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:27.599
horror tropes.

524
00:28:27.660 --> 00:28:31.140
I think there's just not very much to what's going on in the

525
00:28:31.140 --> 00:28:31.859
dollhouse.

526
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:33.720
So we sort of slowly wander around.

527
00:28:33.779 --> 00:28:35.880
It's lit.

528
00:28:35.940 --> 00:28:38.579
I mean, they even make the point themselves, don't they, in

529
00:28:38.579 --> 00:28:41.160
dialogue that if it had been well lit, it wouldn't be scary.

530
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:46.140
You know, and take the Warriors and the deep lesson.

531
00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:51.900
And so there's nothing very much to that, I think.

532
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:55.140
They are just shunted off very quickly into a side plot to leave

533
00:28:55.140 --> 00:28:58.019
the doctor alone with Alex.

534
00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:01.380
And the doctor is in that awkward position of having kind of

535
00:29:01.380 --> 00:29:04.980
forced his way into Alex's home under false pretences.

536
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:11.519
Um, And it not being who Alex kind of thinks he is.

537
00:29:11.579 --> 00:29:16.019
And that is sort of awkward, you know, to have him sort of in the

538
00:29:16.019 --> 00:29:19.140
kitchen making tea after he's been explicitly told to leave.

539
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:22.619
You know, there's something slightly unpleasant about that.

540
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:26.640
I do, I do like his I'm the doctor speech.

541
00:29:26.700 --> 00:29:31.380
You know, it gives a speech about who he is and how he got there.

542
00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:35.220
And it's the sort of speech that, you know, David Tennant would

543
00:29:35.220 --> 00:29:37.980
have showboated his way through.

544
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:43.380
And Matt Smith chooses to deliver it really quite casually and

545
00:29:43.380 --> 00:29:48.240
just to let the words do the job rather than his performance.

546
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:52.980
And I was struck by how well that worked.

547
00:29:53.339 --> 00:29:57.119
The focus is entirely on the doctor in this episode, I think.

548
00:29:57.180 --> 00:29:59.819
And Matt does a great job as always.

549
00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:03.539
I mean, it doesn't matter if he's up against the child playing

550
00:30:03.539 --> 00:30:07.200
George or if he's up against Daniel Mays, who's terrific and has

551
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:08.099
had a stellar career.

552
00:30:08.819 --> 00:30:11.519
He injects life into every scene.

553
00:30:11.579 --> 00:30:15.119
And I think it is clear that Amy and Rory have been shunted off

554
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:18.000
into this subplot, whereas you said, Nathan, nothing really

555
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:18.480
happens.

556
00:30:18.539 --> 00:30:20.400
There's not really enough incidents.

557
00:30:20.460 --> 00:30:23.519
It a little bit spooky, but I think the fact that it's just a bare

558
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:26.460
dollhouse actually hurts it visually because we're just walking

559
00:30:26.460 --> 00:30:27.960
through an undressed set.

560
00:30:28.019 --> 00:30:30.779
And so there's not much of visual interest there either.

561
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:34.680
What do you think of the um, the peg dolls?

562
00:30:35.099 --> 00:30:38.519
They're kind of emblematic of the episode, aren't they?

563
00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:42.779
Because, um, they look good and the sound design is creepy, but

564
00:30:42.779 --> 00:30:45.059
they're kind of more unsettling than scary.

565
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:47.460
They don't quite have as much impact as they should.

566
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:52.019
But that said, I think the transformation of Purcell is fantastic

567
00:30:52.019 --> 00:30:53.220
like really unsettling.

568
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:57.240
And then when it happens to Amy, it's a genuine moment of body

569
00:30:57.240 --> 00:30:59.339
horror, because you're not sure what's going to happen next.

570
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:01.319
I actually don't agree.

571
00:31:01.380 --> 00:31:03.180
I think the episode pulls its punches a bit.

572
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:05.940
It is unsettling, but it's not particularly scary.

573
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:10.259
Mind you, I'm not a 12 year old, but that's, I know hard to

574
00:31:10.259 --> 00:31:11.039
believe, but it's true.

575
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:16.140
And in terms of pulling its punches, it's, well, I guess you could

576
00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:19.440
argue that the imagination is much more powerful, but I wanted to

577
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:22.980
see, I wanted to see Amy transform into the doll, but we actually

578
00:31:22.980 --> 00:31:24.420
had the reverse angle of that.

579
00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:28.019
And I guess that's because of the reveal when she turns or the

580
00:31:28.019 --> 00:31:32.160
doll, Amy Doll turns and faces Rory, but just a taste of that

581
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:35.819
transformation before we cut back to Rory's point of view would

582
00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:39.119
have been, would have been just enough to just push it a little

583
00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:39.900
bit further for me.

584
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:42.299
It just felt like it was a bit tepid that moment.

585
00:31:43.019 --> 00:31:47.460
I think that the scene where Purcell transforms and he looks in

586
00:31:47.460 --> 00:31:49.799
horror at his own kind of wooden hand.

587
00:31:49.859 --> 00:31:54.359
I think it would have been much harder to watch Karen do that.

588
00:31:54.420 --> 00:31:58.680
And so I think it is a deliberate choice not to kind of rub our

589
00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:02.160
noses in in Amy's transformation.

590
00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:04.619
Where's the fun in that, Nathan?

591
00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:05.700
Where's the phone?

592
00:32:08.940 --> 00:32:11.519
I'm with you on this one, Corey.

593
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:16.920
Because I think also it represents something that I think is in

594
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:17.759
Moffat's thinking.

595
00:32:17.819 --> 00:32:22.859
He's never really spoken about that, but, you know, Moffat... is a

596
00:32:22.859 --> 00:32:24.359
very clever person.

597
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:30.839
And we as regular viewers of the show, and again, not 12 year olds

598
00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:33.900
we know that Amy's going to be fine by the end of the episode.

599
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:37.200
She has to be fine because there's a story out going on.

600
00:32:37.259 --> 00:32:37.920
You know what I mean?

601
00:32:37.980 --> 00:32:45.180
Um, And I think, Sometimes Stephen Moffat remembers that we know

602
00:32:45.180 --> 00:32:47.160
that, but forgets that kids might not.

603
00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:51.480
And so he probably goes, oh, we don't need to see Amy go through

604
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:53.400
it because we've seen Purcell go through it.

605
00:32:53.940 --> 00:32:57.420
And Amy's going to be fine by the end anyway. anyway, it's like

606
00:32:57.420 --> 00:33:01.319
well, well, no, in that in that case, show the full extent of it.

607
00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:06.359
Because you're, you're not going to get the shock of Amy's still a

608
00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:09.180
peg doll at the end and is going around the TARDIS going like

609
00:33:09.180 --> 00:33:09.539
this.

610
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:12.420
Sorry, once again, miming on a podcast.

611
00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:12.900
It's great.

612
00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:18.480
But yeah, I agree with you, Corey.

613
00:33:18.539 --> 00:33:21.000
You know, it's already a sad and surprising moment.

614
00:33:21.059 --> 00:33:23.039
Make it as sad and surprising as possible.

615
00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:28.500
I mean, especially considering what happened a few weeks ago at

616
00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:32.519
the end of a good man goes to war, Moffatt is not averse to

617
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:33.180
disgusting us.

618
00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:34.500
Yeah.

619
00:33:34.500 --> 00:33:37.619
And I think this is a moment where he could have pushed it

620
00:33:37.619 --> 00:33:37.920
further.

621
00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:40.740
It's such a dark season.

622
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:45.660
Up to this point, it is pretty dark and as Peter and I discussed

623
00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:49.140
uh, away from this podcast, um, sometimes it's quite devoid of

624
00:33:49.140 --> 00:33:49.559
humour.

625
00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:53.160
That sort of trademark humour we need to sort of break up the

626
00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:54.900
darkness in the world of Doctor Who.

627
00:33:54.900 --> 00:33:59.579
And so for us to sort of step back from that kind of reveal and

628
00:33:59.579 --> 00:34:01.619
see Amy transform into the doll.

629
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:05.279
I just, it's at odds with the tone of the rest of the season as

630
00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:06.059
far as I'm concerned.

631
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:09.900
I think this is a sapphire and steel dog 2 episode.

632
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:12.119
I think that's what Mark is going for.

633
00:34:12.179 --> 00:34:16.500
And so actually Sapphire and Steel was not graphic and was not in

634
00:34:16.500 --> 00:34:17.099
your face.

635
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:18.480
It sort of hinted at everything.

636
00:34:18.539 --> 00:34:22.980
And so I think this episode is, as you say, Corey, I do think it

637
00:34:22.980 --> 00:34:25.980
pulls its punches at times, but it's sort of getting away with

638
00:34:25.980 --> 00:34:29.159
creating atmosphere with a few sound effects and, you know, a fan

639
00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:31.440
in the corner of the studio doing all the heavy lifting.

640
00:34:31.500 --> 00:34:33.179
I mean, an actual fan, not Mark eaters.

641
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:36.780
And I quite like it for that.

642
00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:40.320
I like the fact that it's basically just creating a world with not

643
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:43.500
much and it's hinting at a lot of things without putting it all on

644
00:34:43.500 --> 00:34:43.679
screen.

645
00:34:44.940 --> 00:34:50.159
One such example of that is that nursery rhyme, which was a um, a

646
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:51.179
post-production decision.

647
00:34:51.300 --> 00:34:59.280
So they had in um, 2 young child actors uh, recording the dolls

648
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:03.119
dialogue, and what they found when they were editing was the dolls

649
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:04.860
were really creepy when they were standing still.

650
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:08.219
But less creepy when they were moving.

651
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:09.840
And...

652
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:11.519
Because they look stupid.

653
00:35:13.980 --> 00:35:18.179
So Stephen Moffat asked Mark Gaiters, hey, can you come up with

654
00:35:18.179 --> 00:35:20.340
this nursery rhyme and Mark came up with it.

655
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:23.340
It's like, actually, we can now see this through the 2nd half of

656
00:35:23.340 --> 00:35:23.820
the season.

657
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:27.119
And of course, this being shot first, they could then factor that

658
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:27.360
in.

659
00:35:27.420 --> 00:35:31.440
And it really, really helps because I'd forgotten that we started

660
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:34.920
hearing the nursery rhyme at the beginning of the episode and I

661
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:36.719
remembered it was through the season.

662
00:35:36.780 --> 00:35:38.940
So when we start hearing of the incidental music.

663
00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:39.960
I got a little frisson.

664
00:35:40.019 --> 00:35:40.980
It's like, oh, it's here.

665
00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:44.940
You know, we've got the nursery right now and it does really

666
00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:47.159
really help the peg dolls.

667
00:35:47.219 --> 00:35:52.320
Around this time was when I stopped collecting every single action

668
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:57.300
figure because I think the 1st set for this series came out and

669
00:35:57.300 --> 00:35:58.619
was a bit uninspired.

670
00:35:58.679 --> 00:35:59.820
I'm just like, okay.

671
00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:03.900
But the one I was tempted to get, but I never did, was the peg

672
00:36:03.900 --> 00:36:07.920
doll that came out, because I absolutely love their design and the

673
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:11.940
like, the grotesque, massive faces, and it's like, yeah, I can

674
00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:17.219
easily imagine a child being absolutely terrified by this.

675
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:21.179
And one thing Mark Gator said about the script was that he was

676
00:36:21.179 --> 00:36:25.079
inspired as a children by action figures and toys because they

677
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:28.079
were almost human, but not quite.

678
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:32.760
And he couldn't quite see what other children saw in them because

679
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:33.780
aren't they hideous?

680
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:34.619
Don't they terrify you?

681
00:36:35.340 --> 00:36:38.099
Where does that dollhouse come from?

682
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:41.579
Like, I just don't understand why that dollhouse with these weird

683
00:36:41.579 --> 00:36:44.400
Victorian dolls is in his cupboard.

684
00:36:44.460 --> 00:36:46.139
You know, Mrs. Rossiter gave it to them.

685
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:48.300
It's so weird.

686
00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:52.920
Like all of those toys, all of that furniture, like all of that

687
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:57.300
sort of anachronistic kind of set dressing, like it's there to

688
00:36:57.300 --> 00:36:59.400
serve Mark Gatas's aesthetic.

689
00:36:59.460 --> 00:37:01.440
But it doesn't really make any sense.

690
00:37:01.500 --> 00:37:07.380
And like the peg dolls, I just don't know what they even are.

691
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:09.480
You know, it's it is very strange.

692
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:14.039
Yeah, it's a peculiarly kind of league of gentlemen idea of kind

693
00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:15.599
of wide British childhood.

694
00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:18.780
Yeah, yeah, I think that's it.

695
00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:34.199
Does anyone have any thoughts about the absence of women in this

696
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:34.500
episode?

697
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:37.139
It's a very male dominated episode.

698
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:42.360
The mother Claire is sent off to night shift, and then comes back

699
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:45.300
the next day after the men have fixed the problem and is

700
00:37:45.300 --> 00:37:48.420
effectively patted on the head and told, it's all okay.

701
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:49.800
Trust us, it's being fixed.

702
00:37:49.860 --> 00:37:51.360
Now can you fix the kippers for us?

703
00:37:51.420 --> 00:37:57.480
Well, Matt and Alex, they go out on the balcony and sort of tie up

704
00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:00.059
the loose scenes and you can hear in the kitchen going, kippers

705
00:38:00.059 --> 00:38:00.480
are ready.

706
00:38:00.539 --> 00:38:01.619
And I thought that's about all.

707
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:03.360
She's been reduced to that.

708
00:38:03.420 --> 00:38:06.119
Call me that was one of my favourite parts of the episode.

709
00:38:06.179 --> 00:38:07.739
It just reminded me.

710
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:11.400
It reminded me of the movie Hairspray where Zac Efron's been

711
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:14.400
singing and dancing around the room and John Travolta's Edna calls

712
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:16.619
out, Link, your pork is ready.

713
00:38:18.539 --> 00:38:20.760
If you laugh out loud.

714
00:38:20.820 --> 00:38:25.440
So like Gatus's next script for the show won't have any women in

715
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:28.320
it at all, apart from Clara, is that right?

716
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:32.639
And it's just a sort of very TRAD approach to Doctor Who, and I

717
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:34.440
just think he's more comfortable writing man.

718
00:38:34.500 --> 00:38:39.059
And, you know, the woman who gets the biggest speaking part is

719
00:38:39.059 --> 00:38:42.300
Elsie and she's a horrific stereotype.

720
00:38:42.420 --> 00:38:43.559
I think it's a weakness.

721
00:38:43.619 --> 00:38:49.500
And I also just think there is a level of absurdity about that

722
00:38:49.500 --> 00:38:51.000
ending.

723
00:38:51.000 --> 00:39:00.480
Because the child is presented to us as a kid who, you know, seems

724
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:05.639
to have some like OCD symptoms and, you know, various kind of real

725
00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:10.380
world issues, you know, the blinking and the being scared of

726
00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:13.260
everything and the rituals and all of that.

727
00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:17.519
Those are kind of real world problems, childhood problems that

728
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:22.320
kind of just get solved by a sort of touching reconciliation scene

729
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:25.559
and then everything is going to be all right from then on.

730
00:39:25.619 --> 00:39:27.239
Our parents' love saves the day again.

731
00:39:27.300 --> 00:39:34.619
Yeah, it just seems just a little bit too pat.

732
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:37.079
Like it just doesn't convince in any way.

733
00:39:37.139 --> 00:39:38.579
I think it's a problem.

734
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:41.280
You know, if it's an alien invasion, you can repel it.

735
00:39:41.340 --> 00:39:45.599
But if it's a kid with kind of emotional and behavioural problems

736
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:49.739
just fixing it like that just seems a little bit crap, I think.

737
00:39:50.340 --> 00:39:55.079
It just reminds me of what Pat said to Eddie once in AbFab.

738
00:39:55.139 --> 00:39:56.579
Oh, Eddie, we've been here before.

739
00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:58.679
That's what it feels like to me.

740
00:39:58.739 --> 00:40:02.940
It feels like, well, it's a remake of Fear Her, I think, in just

741
00:40:02.940 --> 00:40:04.920
about every respect, is it?

742
00:40:04.980 --> 00:40:05.460
Goody.

743
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:08.099
But that's what it is, isn't it?

744
00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:12.059
It's like a, you know, fear her as more middle class than this.

745
00:40:12.179 --> 00:40:14.820
It's in a suburban street.

746
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:20.280
There is a scary child who, you know, has the power through an

747
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:25.800
alien or because of an alien to transform people and put them in a

748
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:28.260
sort of weird kind of fantasy location.

749
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:33.599
The child has suffered some trauma, and the doctor comes in, you

750
00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:34.980
know, goes through the fridge.

751
00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:39.539
Um, he fixes the problem and then everything's okay again.

752
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:43.199
It isn't a story that really needed a remake.

753
00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:48.239
And I, you know, like I think it's generally, I don't know, better

754
00:40:48.239 --> 00:40:49.559
shot than fear her.

755
00:40:49.619 --> 00:40:55.019
But it is in many respects, just a straight remake.

756
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:58.559
It's what we were saying a little bit earlier about the Amy and

757
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:00.659
Rory and their baby arc this season.

758
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:03.179
If you're going to delve into those kinds of things about, you

759
00:41:03.179 --> 00:41:06.059
know, childhood trauma, and as you were saying, Nathan, genuine

760
00:41:06.059 --> 00:41:09.300
childhood problems, don't kind of gloss over them too much, you

761
00:41:09.300 --> 00:41:12.000
know, don't go there if you're not going to deal with it in a

762
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:12.599
reasonable way.

763
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:16.679
Um, and also, Corey, what you were saying about the lack of female

764
00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:17.820
characters is true.

765
00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:21.239
I think there's a recurrent theme in the Moffat era of paternal

766
00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:21.599
bonding.

767
00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:26.099
So we'll see it in closing time later this season as well, where

768
00:41:26.099 --> 00:41:29.519
it's all about the bond between the father and the child.

769
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:32.940
And I think that probably comes from Stephen because, you know

770
00:41:32.940 --> 00:41:33.840
he's got 2 sons.

771
00:41:33.900 --> 00:41:37.199
And I think so that was probably foreground in his mind.

772
00:41:37.260 --> 00:41:38.460
Yeah.

773
00:41:38.699 --> 00:41:41.699
Yeah, I agree with you there, Peter.

774
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:46.559
And I think also it's possibly a response to Russell's Doctor Who

775
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:51.420
where the family bonds were all about mothers, essentially.

776
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:55.920
You know, you had Jackie, and when Pete was there, in either

777
00:41:55.920 --> 00:41:59.280
dimension, Pete's a bit rubbish, you know, even in the alternative

778
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:02.340
dimension where he's a big success, he spends half the finale

779
00:42:02.340 --> 00:42:05.159
debating about whether he's going to save Rose or not and, you

780
00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:08.280
know, step up and be her father.

781
00:42:08.340 --> 00:42:11.880
And, you know, then you've got Francine, who's fabulous, and Clive

782
00:42:11.880 --> 00:42:14.099
who's a bit rubbish because he's run off with Annelise.

783
00:42:15.059 --> 00:42:17.099
Say properly, Brendan.

784
00:42:20.219 --> 00:42:21.300
Hi, babe.

785
00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:28.800
And then, of course, you got Sylvia, who is a bit rubbish, but we

786
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:30.360
adore her because she's hilarious.

787
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:34.199
And you do have Wolf, who is a far more capable character and a

788
00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:38.280
father, but is still sort of kept in place by Sylvia.

789
00:42:38.340 --> 00:42:39.420
Like, oh, I voted for her.

790
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:39.960
You did not.

791
00:42:40.019 --> 00:42:41.519
She won't let me have it with can.

792
00:42:41.579 --> 00:42:42.059
They naughty?

793
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:42.719
You know what I mean?

794
00:42:42.780 --> 00:42:46.500
Now, series 5 comes along, and I remember at the time was

795
00:42:46.500 --> 00:42:50.880
criticised for a lack, you know, we, Amy doesn't have a family, and

796
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:53.579
that's the big problem, you know, and then they turn up for 5

797
00:42:53.579 --> 00:42:53.940
minutes.

798
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.519
So I think Stephen Moffatt here is like, right, I'm going to do

799
00:42:56.519 --> 00:42:58.739
families, but how do I do families in a way that haven't been done

800
00:42:58.739 --> 00:42:59.039
before.

801
00:42:59.099 --> 00:43:03.780
So we've got Avery, we've got Alex, and we've got Craig later in

802
00:43:03.780 --> 00:43:08.280
the season, all doing very similar stories to each other about

803
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:09.300
bonding with their child.

804
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:16.079
And it is interesting that in 2 of those 3 cases, the only way to

805
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:18.960
do it is to remove the women.

806
00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:23.579
Yeah, you know, and even in close time.

807
00:43:23.579 --> 00:43:27.059
In all of those cases, yeah, in all of those cases, yeah.

808
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:27.659
Yeah.

809
00:43:27.719 --> 00:43:30.119
Like with closing time, I was going to say you've at least got

810
00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:30.900
Linda Barron.

811
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:31.860
You know what I mean?

812
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:35.880
who takes on a grand maternal, a figure in the story.

813
00:43:35.940 --> 00:43:40.019
Um, it's, I think it's slightly undermines what Moffat is trying

814
00:43:40.019 --> 00:43:44.400
to do of presenting um, father figures who overcome adversity for

815
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:45.480
the sake of their child.

816
00:43:45.539 --> 00:43:48.539
And it's like, you can only do that by removing the mother from

817
00:43:48.539 --> 00:43:51.659
the story. is a bit of an odd message.

818
00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:56.519
You do have a big central arc that is about a mother and her

819
00:43:56.519 --> 00:44:00.539
daughter, though, and I don't think that makes up for it in any

820
00:44:00.539 --> 00:44:00.840
way.

821
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:05.159
I think it is a problem, but that is at least happening at the

822
00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:05.760
same time.

823
00:44:05.820 --> 00:44:07.920
But like the arc, it's a space arc.

824
00:44:09.900 --> 00:44:14.340
I think that is an effort to sort of balance it.

825
00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:17.940
It's like we've got, you know, the whole season is about

826
00:44:17.940 --> 00:44:21.840
motherhood, like Amy's motherhood of river and is that

827
00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:22.800
particularly successful?

828
00:44:22.860 --> 00:44:23.400
Perhaps not.

829
00:44:23.460 --> 00:44:25.500
So we'll make these mini arcs about these fathers.

830
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:27.420
Are they particularly successful, perhaps not.

831
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:29.280
An effort was made.

832
00:44:40.739 --> 00:44:43.920
I actually think this is a pretty underrated episode.

833
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:45.539
I think there's a lot to like.

834
00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:49.500
I don't mind the idea of kind of the cuckoo child as the rationale

835
00:44:49.500 --> 00:44:50.880
for the urban horror setup.

836
00:44:50.940 --> 00:44:55.739
Um, we've had much more tenuously technobabbly explanations for

837
00:44:55.739 --> 00:44:59.039
things like the psychic pollen last year in Amy's choice.

838
00:44:59.099 --> 00:45:01.800
Um, and I think it is trying to say things.

839
00:45:01.860 --> 00:45:04.440
You know, there's there's sort of a little bit of comment being

840
00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:07.920
here on the breakdown of society and the impact on family and the

841
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:11.460
isolation of kids, which I think is more relevant in a lockdown

842
00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:13.679
world than it was 10 years ago.

843
00:45:13.739 --> 00:45:18.000
But the problem as ever with Mark's scripts, and I do enjoy, um

844
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:21.659
you know, I do enjoy his scripts as a rule, is that they do have a

845
00:45:21.659 --> 00:45:24.300
good setup, but it's not quite developed that well.

846
00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:27.360
And so like we were saying with the subplot in the in the

847
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:31.019
dollhouse, it's an interesting idea, but then nothing is really

848
00:45:31.019 --> 00:45:32.639
done with it and it loses steam.

849
00:45:32.699 --> 00:45:37.139
See, I actually think there's quite a lot to like about it, but it

850
00:45:37.139 --> 00:45:38.460
doesn't quite land, does it?

851
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:41.159
I'm not sure I agree with you, Peter.

852
00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:47.400
I actually think this episode is completely devoid of any real

853
00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:53.340
political position around class and around housing estates.

854
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:58.559
Um, And I really struggled with the idea that the doctor just

855
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:03.420
stays in George's room while Purcell does some heavy work on Alex

856
00:46:03.420 --> 00:46:05.099
to get the rent out of him.

857
00:46:05.219 --> 00:46:09.840
That seems a very odd choice for the doctor in that moment.

858
00:46:09.900 --> 00:46:14.159
If I were to place that situation in perhaps the old series, and

859
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:16.980
this might be a problematic thing to say, but drop it into the old

860
00:46:16.980 --> 00:46:17.340
series.

861
00:46:17.460 --> 00:46:20.880
You can imagine the doctor possibly stepping out and intervening

862
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:24.360
and um, and writing the wrong there, I guess.

863
00:46:24.420 --> 00:46:27.599
But I guess more to the point is that I don't think Gates is

864
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:30.960
actually really saying anything about housing estates and about

865
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:33.360
the breakdown of community.

866
00:46:33.420 --> 00:46:35.880
There's a fleeting comment.

867
00:46:35.940 --> 00:46:40.679
I think that Matt's doctor makes about housing estates, but it

868
00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:45.719
flies by so quick that I think, you know, you have to watch the

869
00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:47.940
episode a number of times to pick up that comment.

870
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:51.360
There's nothing really about what do these housing states

871
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:51.960
represent?

872
00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:55.440
They, in effect, ring fence working class people.

873
00:46:55.500 --> 00:47:00.119
Um, socially disadvantaged people away from the rest of the rest

874
00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:00.480
of us.

875
00:47:00.539 --> 00:47:03.000
That's certainly my take on it.

876
00:47:03.059 --> 00:47:05.820
And there's, it's problematic that the doctor doesn't comment on

877
00:47:05.820 --> 00:47:06.840
that at all in the episode.

878
00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:09.840
Yeah, I really struggle with it, actually, to be honest, just to

879
00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:10.559
be contrary.

880
00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:11.340
Sorry, chaps.

881
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:13.019
No, not contrary at all.

882
00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:15.780
I mean, I actually I agree to a large extent with you.

883
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:18.420
I think that there isn't a lot of comment in the episode.

884
00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:23.099
I think Mark is, you know, he is striving to say a couple of

885
00:47:23.099 --> 00:47:27.420
things, but his politics are not the politics of the working class

886
00:47:27.420 --> 00:47:29.880
and not the politics of kind of people who live in a states.

887
00:47:29.940 --> 00:47:34.079
And so um, I'm not sure if he knows exactly what he's saying.

888
00:47:34.139 --> 00:47:36.719
I think he's trying to say a few things, but he doesn't actually

889
00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:37.679
end up saying them.

890
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:39.420
So I actually agree with you broadly.

891
00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:41.940
Like I knew you would, Peter.

892
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:44.460
We always do, Corey.

893
00:47:46.139 --> 00:47:49.440
I think that Gatus's interests are aesthetic rather than

894
00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:50.039
political.

895
00:47:50.099 --> 00:47:53.639
I think he ends up being sort of accidentally conservative as a

896
00:47:53.639 --> 00:47:54.239
result of that.

897
00:47:54.300 --> 00:47:59.400
But what he really wants to do is bring that sort of grotesque mid

898
00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:02.820
20th century horror aesthetic that he had in League of Gentlemen

899
00:48:02.820 --> 00:48:06.840
and to some extent in the idiot's lantern, and then sort of do it

900
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:07.980
in a modern setting.

901
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:11.099
And it, you know, his most political script.

902
00:48:11.159 --> 00:48:15.719
I think probably, like his most explicitly political script is

903
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:17.400
sleep no more.

904
00:48:17.460 --> 00:48:22.980
But even there, he can't resist shoe horning his mid-20th century

905
00:48:22.980 --> 00:48:25.800
aesthetic into that in places as well.

906
00:48:25.860 --> 00:48:28.980
And indeed, shoehorning in Reese Shearsmith.

907
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:31.019
Oh yeah, quite.

908
00:48:31.019 --> 00:48:31.920
Which is not a problem.

909
00:48:31.980 --> 00:48:35.219
He's the best part of the episode No, I should imagine a lot of

910
00:48:35.219 --> 00:48:37.619
people don't have a problem with shoehorning.

911
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:42.239
Why did I know you were going to say something like that, Peter.

912
00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:46.440
I agree with what you're saying about Mark Gator said, because, you

913
00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:50.159
know, if you look back at the Unquiet Dead, and he's commented on

914
00:48:50.159 --> 00:48:54.119
this since then, people kind of said at the time, so is this anti

915
00:48:52.980 --> 00:48:54.119
refugee?

916
00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:56.099
And Mark says, oh my god, no, it's a space thing.

917
00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:56.519
No.

918
00:48:56.579 --> 00:48:58.440
No, that's not what I was going for at all.

919
00:48:58.500 --> 00:49:02.460
You know, but it's because, you know, he's thought about, as you

920
00:49:02.460 --> 00:49:05.639
say, the aesthetic, the script function without thinking about the

921
00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:07.320
world that script is going out into.

922
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:09.360
You know what I mean?

923
00:49:09.420 --> 00:49:12.719
But Peter said something he liked about this.

924
00:49:12.780 --> 00:49:15.059
I'd like to say something I really like, and I know, Corey, it's

925
00:49:15.059 --> 00:49:17.039
something you brought up earlier that you don't think works so

926
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:20.940
well, but I actually really like the relationship between the

927
00:49:20.940 --> 00:49:25.440
doctor and Alex after the doctor gives him the stunning star

928
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:29.940
speech and whatever, especially that conversation about, do we

929
00:49:29.940 --> 00:49:31.019
open the cupboard or not?

930
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:37.920
There is such a sort of doctor and Harry Sullivan vibe to that

931
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:41.880
whole conversation where the doctor's saying, no, no, it's far too

932
00:49:41.880 --> 00:49:44.039
dangerous. and Alex says, yes, it's far too dangerous. and the

933
00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:45.960
doctor goes, yes, Alex, what are you thinking?

934
00:49:46.019 --> 00:49:47.639
We can't possibly open the cupboard.

935
00:49:47.699 --> 00:49:49.440
Now hold this cup while they open the cupboard.

936
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:51.599
You've taught me into it.

937
00:49:51.659 --> 00:49:53.280
It's really well done.

938
00:49:53.340 --> 00:49:55.199
It's really well done.

939
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:57.360
And also, I don't quite know where this comes from.

940
00:49:57.420 --> 00:49:59.519
But...

941
00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:07.320
Here and with James Corden, there is a homoerotic vibe, when

942
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:10.800
Matt's Mind, please don't put that image in my head.

943
00:50:10.860 --> 00:50:12.480
I'm sorry but it's true.

944
00:50:12.539 --> 00:50:13.500
I'm sorry.

945
00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:14.280
I'm sorry.

946
00:50:14.460 --> 00:50:18.900
Peter, we must face our fears if this story is about...

947
00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:21.480
If not, put James Corden in the cupboard.

948
00:50:21.539 --> 00:50:26.460
But, um, yeah, there's this homoerotic vibe, especially during

949
00:50:26.460 --> 00:50:31.199
that stunning star speech, they're just gazing into each other's

950
00:50:31.199 --> 00:50:34.199
eyes while the doctor is actually, not even stunning stars.

951
00:50:34.260 --> 00:50:37.199
He's basically giving the Florana speech without become with me at

952
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:37.619
the end.

953
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:38.940
You know what I mean?

954
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:41.219
And they're just staring into each other's eyes and you just cut

955
00:50:41.219 --> 00:50:42.059
to Alex babies.

956
00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:44.159
You're not from social services.

957
00:50:44.219 --> 00:50:48.539
It's such a brilliant thing and it really brings it down to

958
00:50:48.539 --> 00:50:49.019
earth.

959
00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:52.920
And the other thing I really love about that relationship is, at

960
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:55.800
the end, when they're surrounded on the stairs, the doctor

961
00:50:55.800 --> 00:51:00.300
explains why George is feeling the way he's feeling, but he

962
00:51:00.300 --> 00:51:02.340
doesn't say to Alex, now go hug your son.

963
00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:05.460
That would have utterly ruined it.

964
00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:09.539
He says you can end this, but he doesn't explain how, and it's up

965
00:51:09.539 --> 00:51:13.440
to Alex to figure that out because that love has to come from a

966
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:14.099
genuine place.

967
00:51:15.780 --> 00:51:20.039
I mean, George calls out dad, and that's what he responds to.

968
00:51:20.099 --> 00:51:24.420
And, you know, he responds as dad in a situation where he's

969
00:51:24.420 --> 00:51:26.519
questioning whether the child is his at all.

970
00:51:26.579 --> 00:51:30.300
And it is kind of the same thing that we are going to get in a few

971
00:51:30.300 --> 00:51:32.760
weeks time with closing time.

972
00:51:32.820 --> 00:51:38.400
So I think maybe fear her suffers from being in the same season as

973
00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:42.780
the idiot's lantern, which it has lots of similarities with.

974
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:45.900
And I think this one probably suffers from being a little bit too

975
00:51:45.900 --> 00:51:48.000
much like closing time.

976
00:51:48.179 --> 00:51:52.440
I know it sounds like I'm really down on this episode, but I agree

977
00:51:52.440 --> 00:51:55.139
there is much to enjoy about it, and it's hearts are in the right

978
00:51:55.139 --> 00:51:55.800
place, I think.

979
00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:26.460
Well, new listener, that's all we have time for this week.

980
00:52:26.519 --> 00:52:30.300
You will be back next week for another Star Trek episode with the

981
00:52:30.300 --> 00:52:31.260
girl who waited.

982
00:52:31.559 --> 00:52:35.460
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

983
00:52:35.460 --> 00:52:38.280
and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook

984
00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:41.519
at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website

985
00:52:41.519 --> 00:52:44.579
FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other

986
00:52:44.579 --> 00:52:50.099
podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody InterTara, maximum power, and Untitled

987
00:52:50.099 --> 00:52:51.480
Star Trek Project.

988
00:52:51.719 --> 00:52:56.460
Until next time, please go easy on the patented wallpaper.

989
00:52:56.519 --> 00:52:58.800
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

990
00:52:58.860 --> 00:53:00.059
Good night.

991
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:00.719
Good night.

992
00:53:00.780 --> 00:53:01.559
Good night.

993
00:53:06.059 --> 00:53:09.659
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter

994
00:53:09.659 --> 00:53:11.760
Griffith, Brendan Jones and Corey McMahon.

995
00:53:11.820 --> 00:53:13.739
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

996
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:17.039
This episode, Fixed the Kippers, was recorded on the 29th of

997
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:19.739
August 2021 and released on the 14th of November.

998
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:26.519
Fans of the League of Gentlemen will be delighted to know that for

999
00:53:26.519 --> 00:53:30.780
FDE 29th of August is new today, which means that this episode was

1000
00:53:30.780 --> 00:53:33.599
recorded with all 4 of us wearing nothing but upsettingly fluffy

1001
00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:34.019
merkins.

1002
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:37.980
As a result, we strongly recommend unsubscribing from our YouTube

1003
00:53:37.980 --> 00:53:38.340
channel.

1004
00:53:41.400 --> 00:53:45.360
Also, can we just say that Mark, being the big old geek that he is

1005
00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:48.420
throwing in jokes about Snow White and the 7 Keys to do this day?

1006
00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:49.980
That's right.

1007
00:53:49.980 --> 00:53:51.659
He laugh out loud.

1008
00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:54.300
I thought to myself, what others could you have?

1009
00:53:54.360 --> 00:53:56.579
How about Ian Barbara and the 40 Thebes?

1010
00:53:58.380 --> 00:54:00.719
Captain Jack and the Beanstalk.

1011
00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:06.360
You know, like I'm, this is the tag now, I think, at this and I

1012
00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:11.699
just think this episode's really boring and I'm glad that you all

1013
00:54:11.699 --> 00:54:14.340
derived some kind of enjoyment from it.

1014
00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:15.480
Oh God.

1015
00:54:15.539 --> 00:54:17.699
I thought it was charming.

1016
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:18.300
Oh, bugger.

1017
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:18.960
I agree with you.

1018
00:54:19.019 --> 00:54:19.380
It is.

1019
00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:19.920
It's boring.

1020
00:54:19.980 --> 00:54:21.179
I had to watch it 3 times.

1021
00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:22.920
It was like, oh, not again.

1022
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:28.380
Do you know that comparison with EastEnders?

1023
00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:29.579
Sorry, you go on, Brennan.

1024
00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:33.239
I was just going to say, I, you know, I enjoy it, but I don't

1025
00:54:33.239 --> 00:54:35.219
overly enjoy this series.

1026
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:38.699
So would I have enjoyed it as much if it were part of last year's

1027
00:54:38.699 --> 00:54:39.420
series?

1028
00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:44.219
Um, which also begs the question, is dragging a stereotypical

1029
00:54:44.219 --> 00:54:47.820
little old lady into the trash better or worse than driving a van

1030
00:54:47.820 --> 00:54:48.480
into them?

1031
00:54:49.380 --> 00:54:51.599
Oh, I go for the van.

1032
00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:53.579
A van every time. man every time.

1033
00:54:53.639 --> 00:54:57.300
I'm absolutely on board with the violence towards old people in

1034
00:54:57.300 --> 00:54:58.739
Amy's choice. hilarious.

1035
00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:01.440
It's a go-to moment.

1036
00:55:01.500 --> 00:55:02.460
It's a go-to moment.

1037
00:55:02.940 --> 00:55:04.500
Hit up.

1038
00:55:04.500 --> 00:55:05.340
Whack up.

1039
00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:10.199
It's a go-get. man.

1040
00:55:10.260 --> 00:55:10.800
All right.

1041
00:55:10.860 --> 00:55:13.199
So, shall we do an outro?