WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:37:31 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.960 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety 2 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:44.280 the only Doctor Who podcast with a PhD in cheesemaking or 3 00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:44.640 something. 4 00:00:44.759 --> 00:00:46.560 I'm Nathan. 5 00:00:46.619 --> 00:00:47.340 I'm Peter. 6 00:00:47.399 --> 00:00:49.740 I'm Conrad, and I'm Cy. 7 00:00:49.799 --> 00:00:54.420 Well, last week's holiday on Appalapuccia, wasn't as relaxing as 8 00:00:54.420 --> 00:00:55.140 we expected. 9 00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:59.520 And so here we are in every grimy English hotel you've ever stayed 10 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:03.119 in with rooms packed full of our darkest fears, and something 11 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:06.900 large, hairy and muscular stalking the corridors, who we find 12 00:01:06.900 --> 00:01:09.299 ourselves weirdly compelled to worship. 13 00:01:09.359 --> 00:01:13.319 It's time for us to explore the god complex. 14 00:01:31.379 --> 00:01:33.480 With that greasy breakfast buffet? 15 00:01:35.459 --> 00:01:40.859 So, Cy, how have you been enjoying series 6 so far? 16 00:01:41.099 --> 00:01:44.519 It's an interesting season, isn't it? 17 00:01:44.579 --> 00:01:46.019 It's all over the place. 18 00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:51.840 There's some really, really great episodes and some absolute 19 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:53.280 stinkers in there as well. 20 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:58.079 Um, yeah, it's so up and down, particularly after coming off the 21 00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:01.560 back of series 5, which was so brilliant all the way through. 22 00:02:01.620 --> 00:02:04.140 This one, you never know what to expect. 23 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:08.280 And so you've got the low points of the curse of the black spot 24 00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:12.060 which I think is one of the serious low points of Doctor Who in 25 00:02:12.060 --> 00:02:16.259 general, and then got the high points like the Doctor's Wife and 26 00:02:16.259 --> 00:02:19.319 this episode, which I think is near on perfect. 27 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:24.419 You know, so I think this season's going to be in X-Files for the 28 00:02:24.419 --> 00:02:28.020 1st time since Doctor Who came back in 2005 in that, the 29 00:02:28.020 --> 00:02:30.479 standalone episodes are better than the Arc episodes. 30 00:02:30.539 --> 00:02:33.840 You know, I do like the opening 2 parter, and I like the wedding 31 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:36.960 of River song, but this season, the standouts for me are this 32 00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:39.240 episode, the girl who waited and the doctor's wife. 33 00:02:39.300 --> 00:02:42.840 So, I think those kind of middle arc episodes, and let's include 34 00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:45.599 the dreadful gangers in that as well for its ending. 35 00:02:45.659 --> 00:02:46.800 I think they weighed the season down. 36 00:02:46.860 --> 00:02:48.000 So this is good. 37 00:02:48.060 --> 00:02:49.979 Well, absolutely. 38 00:02:50.039 --> 00:02:52.919 It rises so high, but it falls so low. 39 00:02:55.020 --> 00:02:57.479 Yeah, I think I'm the same. 40 00:02:57.539 --> 00:03:01.080 I much prefer the standalone stories than the arc ones, especially 41 00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:02.400 in this in this series. 42 00:03:02.460 --> 00:03:05.819 And also I read that this was originally supposed to be in series 43 00:03:05.819 --> 00:03:08.460 5, which would have been interesting. 44 00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:13.319 I read that in like a black archive and I was just intrigued that 45 00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:15.900 the idea originally came up sort of for series 5. 46 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:17.099 And I think that... 47 00:03:17.099 --> 00:03:18.960 I would surprise Chicken remember it if you read it in the Black 48 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:19.500 Archive. 49 00:03:19.620 --> 00:03:21.360 I know. 50 00:03:22.319 --> 00:03:26.340 It was interesting, but like I feel like it belongs, it would 51 00:03:26.340 --> 00:03:29.219 belong really nice in series 5 because it has got that fairy tale 52 00:03:29.219 --> 00:03:32.699 feel to it, but I definitely prefer the self-enclosed stories and 53 00:03:32.699 --> 00:03:36.479 find them more successful than the arc, which, you know, I think I 54 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:39.240 think the arc that runs through series 5, just like, oh, what's 55 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:40.319 the crack in Amy's wall? 56 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:41.460 is fine. 57 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:45.300 But this is the one where I can't really follow the ark and I'm 58 00:03:45.300 --> 00:03:47.099 not sort of interested in revisiting it much. 59 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:50.460 So I love the fact that this is, apart from a bolt on at the end. 60 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:52.439 This is a self-enclosed story and I love those. 61 00:03:52.620 --> 00:03:57.060 In fact, we've been a little bit light on the arc lately. 62 00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:02.039 The early episodes of series 6 constantly had to remind us that 63 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:05.879 the doctor was going to die and constantly had to remind us that 64 00:04:05.879 --> 00:04:07.319 Amy was pregnant. 65 00:04:07.379 --> 00:04:12.120 And I think that in some ways, the intrusion of the arc actually 66 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:14.340 affected some episodes negatively. 67 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:17.939 Like, curse of the black spot, I think, suffers from all of the 68 00:04:17.939 --> 00:04:20.579 things that we had to stick in there to get it in the 1st half of 69 00:04:20.579 --> 00:04:21.360 the series. 70 00:04:21.420 --> 00:04:25.920 And so this is a more interesting version of the arc because 71 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:29.100 Moffat's arcs aren't always about sort of cracks in the wall or 72 00:04:29.100 --> 00:04:30.720 key phrases or anything like that. 73 00:04:30.779 --> 00:04:33.000 They tend to be character arcs as well. 74 00:04:33.060 --> 00:04:38.220 And I think that this really does a very good job of that. 75 00:04:38.339 --> 00:04:42.120 So it's not just as a brilliant, self-contained episode. 76 00:04:42.180 --> 00:04:48.660 It is also kind of an interesting waypoint, I guess, in Amy and 77 00:04:48.660 --> 00:04:50.399 Rory's story. 78 00:04:50.699 --> 00:04:54.060 Yeah, I'm surprised by how little Amy and Rory featured in the 79 00:04:54.060 --> 00:04:55.800 episode actually, because it's important for them. 80 00:04:55.860 --> 00:05:01.019 Yeah, it's tangentially about them, really, particularly it's 81 00:05:01.019 --> 00:05:05.160 about Amy and the doctor's relationship and Rory's relationship 82 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:07.379 again, with the 2 of them. 83 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:12.660 But it's not at the forefront of the episode at all, is it? 84 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:16.259 And I think the reason for that is the character of Rita. 85 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:21.720 And I think she is, you know, one of the best guest characters 86 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:26.579 we've had all season and maybe so far in the Moffatt era, she's so 87 00:05:26.579 --> 00:05:27.300 charming. 88 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:32.279 Like the actor herself is just absolutely as charming as hell. 89 00:05:32.339 --> 00:05:34.259 And they... 90 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:37.199 She's so good, Nathan, that it makes that little bit about Amy 91 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:39.060 you're fired a little bit too close to her. 92 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:44.399 And then the doctor does his little call me sign thing as well. 93 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:46.560 I'm joking, but no seriously, call me. 94 00:05:46.620 --> 00:05:52.259 But I mean, I think that that's the point because it's Rita, who 95 00:05:52.259 --> 00:05:56.040 is an absolutely solid candidate for a companion. 96 00:05:56.100 --> 00:06:00.660 She has all of the characteristics that you expect a companion to 97 00:06:00.660 --> 00:06:05.399 show, you know, like Martha, I guess, at the beginning of series 98 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:05.879 3. 99 00:06:06.180 --> 00:06:07.860 She's independent. 100 00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:10.560 She's clever, she has leadership abilities. 101 00:06:10.620 --> 00:06:14.279 She's not super impressed by the doctor, but there's a spark. 102 00:06:14.339 --> 00:06:18.060 And he offers her all of time in space. 103 00:06:18.120 --> 00:06:20.040 He explicitly makes that offer. 104 00:06:20.100 --> 00:06:23.160 And we have that moment where Rory says, you know, every time I 105 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:27.300 see the doctor kind of getting pally with someone, I want to 106 00:06:27.300 --> 00:06:29.040 notify their next of kin. 107 00:06:29.100 --> 00:06:31.500 And that's the point, isn't it? 108 00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:37.500 That because of that thing that happens to Rita, that's why the 109 00:06:37.500 --> 00:06:42.120 doctor drops Amy off because the parallel between them is so 110 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:43.560 uncomfortable. 111 00:06:43.620 --> 00:06:44.339 And... 112 00:06:44.339 --> 00:06:51.120 I guess Widhouse covers this a bit in Vampires of Venice, do you 113 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:53.819 remember the speech that Rory gives to the doctor? 114 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:59.579 about how the doctor's dangerous because people try to impress him 115 00:06:59.579 --> 00:07:03.540 and then put themselves in danger. 116 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:06.899 And, you know, Windhouse picks that up here, I think. 117 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:09.600 Yeah, it's quite nice. 118 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:13.620 It's him riffing on himself, and it's also him riffing on, I think 119 00:07:13.620 --> 00:07:17.939 Stephen Moffat has touched on the doctor as kind of icon, which 120 00:07:17.939 --> 00:07:23.100 fits into the God complex in episodes like Good Man Goes to War. 121 00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:27.240 I mean, Russell did it as well in sort of more overt ways and 122 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:30.540 things like the Wars of Mars and maybe midnight. 123 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:33.060 You know, the whole I'm clever routine that the doctor has. 124 00:07:33.060 --> 00:07:36.120 And I think this is another riff on the doctor being that kind of 125 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:40.019 iconic galaxy spanning figure that we saw in a good man goes to 126 00:07:40.019 --> 00:07:42.360 war, but kind of understanding the repercussions of it. 127 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:48.120 I think one of the episodes downsides, one of its few downsides is 128 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:51.240 that like night terrors, it makes Amy and Rory a bit redundant in 129 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:55.199 the storytelling and reinforces that 2 companions is maybe too 130 00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:58.620 many, but also you've got Rita there and while she was fulfilling 131 00:07:58.620 --> 00:08:01.439 that very valuable plot and thematic function. 132 00:08:01.500 --> 00:08:03.240 She is just kind of better. 133 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:08.220 And she says, she's super charming and incredibly magnetic. 134 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:10.920 Like, you can't take your eyes off her when she's in any scene. 135 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:12.839 She really has got it, you know. 136 00:08:12.899 --> 00:08:15.000 And also seeing this as well. 137 00:08:15.060 --> 00:08:18.240 I haven't actually watched a Matt Smith story for a long time. 138 00:08:18.300 --> 00:08:19.019 I don't know why. 139 00:08:19.079 --> 00:08:24.000 And the 2nd I saw him, just like, he's the 1st shot you get at him 140 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:26.579 is just looking down, you know, this silly hair flopping forward 141 00:08:26.579 --> 00:08:28.800 this big face excited about his off words out. 142 00:08:28.860 --> 00:08:32.460 And the 2nd I saw him, I just beamed and I was like, oh my god 143 00:08:32.460 --> 00:08:33.899 I've missed you so much. 144 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:35.100 You're so brilliant. 145 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:36.419 He's hysterical. 146 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:38.519 And I know, and there's so many bits in here. 147 00:08:38.580 --> 00:08:40.620 And again, talk about not being able to take your eyes off him. 148 00:08:40.679 --> 00:08:42.899 I mean he's just magic. 149 00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:46.259 I know, Nathan, you said that this contains one of your favourite 150 00:08:46.259 --> 00:08:49.679 map moments or you've got a new favourite map moments and I'm 151 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:53.820 going to see if I can guess what it is because I've got loads. 152 00:08:53.879 --> 00:08:58.500 Like, I loved a bit when Ren Rita sort of says, oh, the rooms have 153 00:08:58.500 --> 00:08:59.279 got things in them. 154 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:01.080 And he just goes, things. 155 00:09:01.139 --> 00:09:01.679 Hello. 156 00:09:01.740 --> 00:09:06.000 Yeah, he just does this really silly kind of... 157 00:09:06.059 --> 00:09:06.779 I love that. 158 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:09.299 And there's a moment when she's talking to him and he just gargles 159 00:09:09.299 --> 00:09:13.980 his tea and you know that that's that's a mat, that's a mattsness 160 00:09:13.980 --> 00:09:14.519 thing. 161 00:09:14.580 --> 00:09:17.580 His tea drinking. it's amazing. 162 00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:19.440 No one drinks tea like that. 163 00:09:19.500 --> 00:09:21.539 But it's so watchable. 164 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:22.919 He licks the cup. 165 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:25.259 And then halfway through shit in the middle of a sentence. 166 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:27.120 He just throws his head back and gargles the tea. 167 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:29.820 And the other... 168 00:09:29.820 --> 00:09:31.139 That could be what it is. 169 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:32.580 Have I got it yet, Nathan? 170 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:33.059 I got it. 171 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:34.080 I've got one watch. 172 00:09:34.139 --> 00:09:35.039 I got one more. 173 00:09:35.100 --> 00:09:36.360 I got one more gun. 174 00:09:36.419 --> 00:09:40.860 Is another bit, which I absolutely love right at the end when, when 175 00:09:40.860 --> 00:09:43.919 when, when, well, I'm sure talk about the end later, but when Rory 176 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:46.139 gets presented with his dream car, and he's like, it's my 177 00:09:46.139 --> 00:09:47.580 favourite car, how did you know? 178 00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:49.679 And he goes, because you showed me a picture of it once, that's my 179 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:50.279 favourite car. 180 00:09:50.340 --> 00:09:52.259 And he does this wonderful impression of Rory. 181 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:53.399 I just love that. 182 00:09:53.460 --> 00:09:54.600 Like it's really good. 183 00:09:54.659 --> 00:09:57.659 So that's my go because those are my 3 moments, sort of comedic 184 00:09:57.659 --> 00:09:58.259 moments of him. 185 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:00.659 I've missed it, haven't I, that you've got another one in there? 186 00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:01.980 No, I do have another one. 187 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:05.639 I did like the cheese plant, his reaction to the cheese plant, but 188 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:07.080 just that wasn't it. 189 00:10:07.139 --> 00:10:12.059 But just generally his delight about the hotel, like just how into 190 00:10:12.059 --> 00:10:13.019 it he is. 191 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:16.440 And that moment with things where he goes, things hello. 192 00:10:16.500 --> 00:10:19.379 It's kind of like, you know, I really like things. 193 00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:20.940 They're my hobby or something. 194 00:10:20.940 --> 00:10:22.679 Like, it's so good. 195 00:10:22.740 --> 00:10:23.639 Yeah, exactly. 196 00:10:23.700 --> 00:10:26.159 And he's sort of trying to impress her in that moment. 197 00:10:26.220 --> 00:10:28.620 Like, he's literally picked up the 1st thing she said to you, there 198 00:10:28.620 --> 00:10:28.860 are things. 199 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:29.940 He's like, oh, I'm good at this. 200 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:30.539 I love things. 201 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:30.960 Hello. 202 00:10:31.019 --> 00:10:34.620 He's like, he's really magnetically drawn to her as well. 203 00:10:34.679 --> 00:10:36.120 He's trying to impress her immediately. 204 00:10:36.179 --> 00:10:36.720 He sees her. 205 00:10:36.779 --> 00:10:40.440 But yeah, so that, I mean, you know, that's the biggest, that just 206 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:43.799 watching this again, like he just, he is bloody fantastic. 207 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:46.980 And for somebody like Matt Smith is, and you see him in real life 208 00:10:46.980 --> 00:10:49.379 and how he presents himself and the kind of things he's drawn to 209 00:10:49.379 --> 00:10:53.220 Matt Smith is a very cool person, you know, he, the way he dress 210 00:10:53.220 --> 00:10:55.919 he's always prides himself on how he, how he looks, and even when 211 00:10:55.919 --> 00:10:58.440 he's, you know, you see, you've sort of pat through the shots at 212 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:00.720 him just smoking a fag or whatever, he always just looks 213 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:02.220 effortlessly cool. 214 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:07.080 And for him to throw that all away and be this total dork. 215 00:11:07.139 --> 00:11:12.179 You know, he's such an act of gener, like huge generosity and, you 216 00:11:12.179 --> 00:11:14.759 know, the fact he can't, he's totally useless with talking to 217 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:16.559 people, but especially girls. 218 00:11:16.620 --> 00:11:19.320 I was like, that's got to be the absolute opposite of Matt Smith, I 219 00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:21.600 think, is truly wonderful. 220 00:11:21.659 --> 00:11:25.259 I always, always loves seeing him and this is just a joy. 221 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:29.940 So many doctors who channel themselves for the part, but you get 222 00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:32.159 the impression that matters just channelling a very small specific 223 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:33.059 part of himself. 224 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:34.620 Yes, yeah, yeah. 225 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:35.519 Definitely. 226 00:11:35.580 --> 00:11:39.960 I mean, it's it's his line readings as well that always get me. 227 00:11:40.019 --> 00:11:43.860 Like there's, there are 2 moments that I, I am noted down. 228 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:46.080 There's the, oh, look at you. 229 00:11:46.139 --> 00:11:47.580 You are beautiful. 230 00:11:47.639 --> 00:11:52.320 He says when he sees the minotor for the 1st time, and also that 231 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:55.139 we're going to catch ourselves a monster. 232 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:59.340 And he's just, he just plays it so brilliantly and you're just 233 00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:03.059 caught up with him and his excitement in those moments all the 234 00:12:03.059 --> 00:12:03.299 time. 235 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:04.740 He's superb. 236 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:11.460 So my moment is when he is confronting David Williams' character 237 00:12:11.460 --> 00:12:20.220 and he talks to him about the cowardice and how sneaky and kind of 238 00:12:20.220 --> 00:12:22.559 passive aggressive it is. 239 00:12:22.620 --> 00:12:28.200 And I've spoken before about how much I like Matt's doctor when 240 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:33.299 he's angry and underplaying it, but he's not even really properly 241 00:12:33.299 --> 00:12:37.679 angry and he's, he's not... 242 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:42.240 I'm struggling to find the word, but he seems to be he seems to be 243 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:43.440 sort of genial. 244 00:12:43.500 --> 00:12:45.600 You know, it's not threatening. 245 00:12:45.659 --> 00:12:51.120 The lines are, but his he's just absolutely underplaying it. 246 00:12:51.179 --> 00:12:54.120 And it ends with him sort of, you know, he touches his shoulder. 247 00:12:54.179 --> 00:12:57.960 He claps him on the shoulder and says, brilliant, we agree, as if 248 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:02.460 that wasn't an agreement that had been kind of extracted just by 249 00:13:02.460 --> 00:13:03.539 force. 250 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:07.019 You know, that the doctor had had in a way threatened him, but 251 00:13:07.019 --> 00:13:10.919 without in any way playing it as a threat. 252 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:12.539 It's it's amazing. 253 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:13.559 He's so good. 254 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:18.299 Like, I love the zaniness and the awkwardness of Matt Smith, but 255 00:13:18.299 --> 00:13:23.820 what I like most of all is that he'll do something that you would 256 00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:26.460 just never, ever expect. 257 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:29.759 And eventually they start to go, oh, let's give Matt Smith say any 258 00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:33.299 things to do his zany, but I think it's better when they give him 259 00:13:33.299 --> 00:13:37.799 just normal things to do and then let him do them however he 260 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:38.100 wants. 261 00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:43.080 Yeah, he's a real mixture of like incredibly instinctive and 262 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:44.820 incredibly sophisticated. 263 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:47.580 He, you know, he'll just let himself be really free and then just 264 00:13:47.580 --> 00:13:51.240 find the one right choice that's absolutely that unpacks the whole 265 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:51.480 thing. 266 00:13:51.539 --> 00:13:53.580 I mean, I'm going to go straight, sort of, almost at the heart of 267 00:13:53.580 --> 00:13:55.679 it, in one of Matt's moments. 268 00:13:55.740 --> 00:13:58.139 They've sort of run away from the monster. 269 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:00.480 They've hidden themselves in in a room. 270 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:05.220 And the doctor is there at the peephole, you know, where you look 271 00:14:05.220 --> 00:14:06.899 out into the corridor and he wants to see it. 272 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:10.019 And this is, I think this, I don't know if it's in the script or 273 00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:11.940 whether it's a map moment, but it almost doesn't matter because 274 00:14:11.940 --> 00:14:13.019 just the way he does it. 275 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:18.659 As he looks from Amy, to the, he says, I have to see, and he just 276 00:14:18.659 --> 00:14:21.419 gives her this smile before he goes to look at it. 277 00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:26.279 It's this like, and it's, there's so, it's so truthful, there's a 278 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:28.559 1000000 moments in that. 279 00:14:28.620 --> 00:14:30.840 There's the sort of, there's the joy of doing it. 280 00:14:30.899 --> 00:14:33.360 There's the him saying to Amy, I'm going to do this thing. 281 00:14:33.419 --> 00:14:34.200 Isn't it exciting? 282 00:14:34.259 --> 00:14:36.480 He also wants to see her reaction. 283 00:14:36.539 --> 00:14:39.600 It's just, there's a 1000000 things going on in that spark. 284 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:44.039 And, and also, I think that moment of that pleasure of looking at 285 00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:47.220 something that you shouldn't want to look at, is the heart of the 286 00:14:47.220 --> 00:14:47.759 entire story. 287 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:50.639 And almost, the whole story is in that 12nd that he might have 288 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:54.120 just done off the cuff, like incredibly sophisticated actor. 289 00:14:54.179 --> 00:14:55.860 But, you know, maybe that was his 5th taking. 290 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:58.559 It would have been a totally different thing he'd have done. 291 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:01.019 He's a wonder, you know, like it really is. 292 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:01.799 He's a wonder. 293 00:15:01.980 --> 00:15:05.519 It struck me while watching it, that, do you remember when the 294 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:07.500 underwater menace 2 was returned? 295 00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:10.379 and there's so much Patrick Troughton business on screen in that 296 00:15:10.379 --> 00:15:12.720 episode, which you just don't realise if you're listening to an 297 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:13.980 audio or whatever? 298 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:16.980 And I think the comparisons between Matt Smith's doctor and the 299 00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:19.860 2nd doctor are a little bit over-egged, but they both have that 300 00:15:19.860 --> 00:15:24.299 ability to be frivolous and funny and undeplayed and then just 301 00:15:24.299 --> 00:15:27.480 turn on steel at the moments where you need to. 302 00:15:27.539 --> 00:15:30.000 Um, and it works for me. 303 00:15:30.059 --> 00:15:30.419 It's great. 304 00:15:30.659 --> 00:15:32.039 Yeah. 305 00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:34.620 And what you were saying, Nathan, it occurs to me that that moment 306 00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:37.080 when he's talking to Gibbons, and also it has to be said, who 307 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:39.419 gives brilliant reactions in that moment, if that's slightly told 308 00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:41.519 off, and yeah, I know, we're all right. 309 00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:41.820 What? 310 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:42.360 Yeah, okay. 311 00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:46.019 You know, that terrifying thing, there's that slight, there is a 312 00:15:46.019 --> 00:15:48.539 threat in there, but it's very, very subtle because when someone 313 00:15:48.539 --> 00:15:50.879 you know, that slight feeling, you know, you remember, like when 314 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:52.620 someone does kind of, you know, clap their arm on your shoulder 315 00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:53.759 and go, we're all right, aren't we? 316 00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:56.940 You're like, okay, and it's slightly threatening, but it's chummy 317 00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:59.159 and it's, it's a 1000000 things at once. 318 00:15:59.220 --> 00:16:01.139 It's very, very, he's just brilliant. 319 00:16:01.259 --> 00:16:02.519 Sorry, that's why that was it. 320 00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:04.440 That sounds brilliant. 321 00:16:04.500 --> 00:16:05.519 That's what I put my next. 322 00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:06.480 That's actually what it says. 323 00:16:18.539 --> 00:16:22.139 Let's talk about the look, as well, before we get into the story. 324 00:16:24.059 --> 00:16:30.539 We had Nick Curran last week. for the girl who waited, and he will 325 00:16:30.539 --> 00:16:32.220 be back next year for what? 326 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:36.000 Asylum of the Daleks and Angels take Manhattan. 327 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:39.299 And then I think they give him day of the doctor. 328 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:40.200 Is that right? 329 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:47.220 I think that this is absolutely incredibly directed. 330 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:50.039 Like, it's amazingly good. 331 00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:52.440 And maybe even better than last week, I think. 332 00:16:53.340 --> 00:16:57.360 Yeah, I think I think from the 1st second. 333 00:16:57.419 --> 00:16:59.159 It's just incredibly rich. 334 00:16:59.220 --> 00:17:02.399 You know, he sets his stage out incredibly. 335 00:17:02.460 --> 00:17:07.019 You see just the weird looking down a staircase, a square 336 00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:10.799 staircase, not all slightly rotates, sort of like a vault, like a 337 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:14.819 bit of a Doctor Who vortex moment, and then you see there's just 338 00:17:14.819 --> 00:17:19.200 the shots and the CCTV and these empty corridors and the music 339 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:21.779 just plays, you know, it's like putting the needle on the record 340 00:17:21.779 --> 00:17:25.619 and it's very much setting out the stage that we've all turned up 341 00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:28.920 to see because we're all, you know, and I hate from that from the 342 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:32.220 1st get go, he's very much in control of this place and then later 343 00:17:32.220 --> 00:17:35.099 on he can just play and and twist and do 1000000 things with it. 344 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:38.880 But from the word go, you're in his space and you just have to 345 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:39.660 kind of deal with it. 346 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:40.980 It's masterfully done. 347 00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:46.200 And it's just the flashes of text on the screen as well with the 348 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:50.400 praise him flashing up, which is really unsettling, but really 349 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:51.599 cool as well. 350 00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:54.119 And you're wondering what the hell this is all about. 351 00:17:54.180 --> 00:17:55.500 What what is this? 352 00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:56.519 Why is this happening? 353 00:17:56.579 --> 00:18:00.900 And the flash frames and the jump cuts between people's reactions 354 00:18:00.900 --> 00:18:03.779 in the rapture and things like that and the changes of 355 00:18:03.779 --> 00:18:04.380 expressions. 356 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:08.940 He's worked so hard to get something really different on screen. 357 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:12.480 Such a good storytelling director. 358 00:18:12.539 --> 00:18:16.500 I think the visual style of this and the girl who waited make the 359 00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:19.559 episodes, they could have, dare I say it, been a little bit 360 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:23.279 ordinary in other hands, but he just tells the story with such 361 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:23.880 flair. 362 00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:27.839 All those lovely fisheye kind of shallow focussed close-ups. 363 00:18:27.900 --> 00:18:31.559 And there was a shot which really appealed to me because it's done 364 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:33.240 in essentially one take. 365 00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:35.759 I mean, I think it's edited together subliminally, but looks like 366 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:36.240 one take. 367 00:18:36.299 --> 00:18:40.859 The reveal of Joe, the character Joe slumped against the wall, dead 368 00:18:40.859 --> 00:18:41.640 when they find him. 369 00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:45.299 It's just a bit of camera trickery, which pulls from the distance 370 00:18:45.299 --> 00:18:49.019 where people are crossing into the close-up of the doctor's feet 371 00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:51.539 and then just pans up to find Joe against the wall. 372 00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:54.000 And it's a really lovely shot. 373 00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:58.559 There's another lovely shot when they find Howie. 374 00:18:58.619 --> 00:18:59.339 Do you remember that? 375 00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:01.799 and Howie is just quite small in the shot. 376 00:19:01.859 --> 00:19:05.099 It's almost as if he's there by accident and we're just interested 377 00:19:05.099 --> 00:19:06.839 in going down the corridor. 378 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.619 And the obvious thing to do would be to have then Matt enter that 379 00:19:10.619 --> 00:19:14.099 shop, but he doesn't, you know, we can't, and he enters from 380 00:19:14.099 --> 00:19:14.819 another direction. 381 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:18.779 But it's just how he's just been kind of left behind and forgotten 382 00:19:18.779 --> 00:19:21.900 like it increases the pathos enormously. 383 00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:25.680 And it just makes his presence there seem, you know, incidental. 384 00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:27.420 It's it's so good. 385 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:31.380 Even the way, like when you're doing the minor tour points of 386 00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:35.279 viewshot, the camera's like way up at the top of the of the 387 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:41.220 corridor because because he's so tall. you know, like it's it's 388 00:19:41.220 --> 00:19:42.299 just tremendous. 389 00:19:42.420 --> 00:19:45.359 The other 2 things that I think are really good. 390 00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:50.579 There's finding Lucy's police notebook and having the doctor read 391 00:19:50.579 --> 00:19:56.460 that and hearing Lucy's voice and sort of seeing the text and 392 00:19:56.460 --> 00:20:01.140 seeing her sort of all in the same shot, which I think, you know 393 00:20:01.140 --> 00:20:06.180 it would have been deadly dull to have Matt just read it out, and 394 00:20:06.180 --> 00:20:09.480 it would have been kind of cheesy to sort of flashback and have 395 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:10.619 Lucy reading it out. 396 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:16.619 And so just having the doctor evoke this woman by, you know 397 00:20:16.619 --> 00:20:19.140 reading her words, I think is beautifully done. 398 00:20:19.619 --> 00:20:24.000 Yeah, oh, and the fact that they're both out of sync as well. 399 00:20:24.059 --> 00:20:26.759 And they're not reading it together just works so well. 400 00:20:26.819 --> 00:20:31.140 It's just a tiny touch, but it's just flair. absolute flair. 401 00:20:31.259 --> 00:20:35.579 And as well as the way he, you know, he's got lots to play with 402 00:20:35.579 --> 00:20:38.700 these corridors because they, you know, contract and expand and 403 00:20:38.700 --> 00:20:41.700 there's that brilliant line where she's like, this hotel could be 404 00:20:41.700 --> 00:20:43.019 you know, it changes. 405 00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:44.519 I could be 50 miles away by now. 406 00:20:44.579 --> 00:20:45.900 That's just wonderful. 407 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:49.019 And he, you absolutely believe that because the way he stretches 408 00:20:49.019 --> 00:20:52.380 and contracts and confuses you with like basically one corridor. 409 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:55.200 But he also does sort of time as well. 410 00:20:55.259 --> 00:20:58.680 Like, when you said, Nathan, with the monster starts very high 411 00:20:58.680 --> 00:20:58.920 up. 412 00:20:58.980 --> 00:21:01.680 But when he comes into the attack, it just speeds up his journey 413 00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:04.440 he just goes, he just whizzes along the corridor to its victim. 414 00:21:04.500 --> 00:21:08.640 But then there's another moment, a key moment where Rita faces 415 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:12.720 that the monster and it just seems is all, I think it sort of 416 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:13.859 happens in slow-mo. 417 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:17.279 It does happen in slow motion, where she, in on the monitor, just 418 00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:22.799 turns around this sort of little girl turning around to this big 419 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:26.099 to the resignation to face this thing and he just slows it for the 420 00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:26.940 last few frames. 421 00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:30.720 And that's, so he's increased, like he really uses the elasticity 422 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:32.700 of the place beautifully. 423 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:37.019 And at the same time, he knows when to pull back and just leave 424 00:21:37.019 --> 00:21:37.980 well enough alone. 425 00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:40.920 So one of the most affecting shots in the episode, I found, was 426 00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:45.660 just the high shot of the 3 victims laid out on what looks like an 427 00:21:45.660 --> 00:21:50.460 altar, sort of Howie and Rita and the other character, and I just 428 00:21:50.460 --> 00:21:53.640 found it very sad in its simplicity, and he holds the shot. 429 00:21:53.700 --> 00:21:56.039 The shot is held longer than you might otherwise think. 430 00:21:56.099 --> 00:21:57.000 And it's really poignant. 431 00:21:57.059 --> 00:21:57.960 It's great storytelling. 432 00:21:58.619 --> 00:22:02.099 There's also a, there's also a real peace as well. 433 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:05.640 There's a moment after a lot of, you know, very heightened stuff 434 00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:06.180 has happened. 435 00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:09.359 They're just forced to moment of peace where the doctor talks to 436 00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:11.819 Rory, he just sort of comes up and it's a bit of like, all right 437 00:22:11.819 --> 00:22:12.299 how are you doing? 438 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:14.339 You've done your room, and it's very conversational. 439 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:17.160 And meanwhile, Amy, you just see her from somewhere else, just 440 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:19.079 quietly resetting the goldfish bowl. 441 00:22:19.140 --> 00:22:21.119 And it's there's a moment of real peace where they're all just 442 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:24.420 sort of having a breather and just resetting themselves in the 443 00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:24.720 story. 444 00:22:24.779 --> 00:22:27.960 It's a real, like, the way he paces it. is beautiful. 445 00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:34.319 Yeah, and there's the um, 2 shots that worked for me really well. 446 00:22:34.380 --> 00:22:38.039 There's the bit in the salon where you see the minotaur through 447 00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:42.420 the running water on the um, on the water feature. 448 00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:45.420 I know my hairdresser doesn't have a water feature. 449 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:53.160 But that was just beautiful because you can't quite make it out 450 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:56.579 but you can see enough to get a general idea of what the monster 451 00:22:56.579 --> 00:22:57.240 looks like. 452 00:22:57.299 --> 00:22:58.619 That was perfect. 453 00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:02.700 And it was also the shot after Rita's died, and after the doctor 454 00:23:02.700 --> 00:23:08.519 has had his moment of smashing all the all the cutlery around, and 455 00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:12.480 the 4 characters who were left are all sat in the in the booths in 456 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:16.019 the restaurant, and it's just one long shot looking down across 457 00:23:16.019 --> 00:23:19.740 the mall, and they're all doing something different, but it all it 458 00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:22.019 just was just beautifully done. 459 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:25.680 I'm all in favour of the shoddy little booth. 460 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:29.819 It is saying something about the characters too. 461 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:31.920 Like they all sat at those booths. 462 00:23:31.980 --> 00:23:33.960 They're all quite distant from one another. 463 00:23:34.019 --> 00:23:35.700 None of them are facing each other. 464 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:37.559 They're all facing the same direction. 465 00:23:37.619 --> 00:23:42.059 It's kind of like they haven't anything to offer one another in 466 00:23:42.059 --> 00:23:42.660 this situation. 467 00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:44.519 It's really, it's really something. 468 00:23:44.579 --> 00:23:48.539 And and that scene in the in the beauty salon. 469 00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:54.960 Haran uses reflections quite a lot and he used them in the girl 470 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:59.579 who waited in order to engineer a scene where old Amy and young 471 00:23:59.579 --> 00:24:03.000 Amy are speaking to one another, but their faces are both in 472 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:03.599 shot. 473 00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:09.960 And here you have a scene where the Minotaur and the doctor are in 474 00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:15.420 the same place, like one is reflected over the face of the other. 475 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:18.240 And there's 2 speeches, aren't there? 476 00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:22.500 that the Minotaur gives, that would clearly apply both to the 477 00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:23.700 Minotaur and the doctor. 478 00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:28.079 So that's a moment where the doctor is being identified with the 479 00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:32.039 monotor and Haran has them in the same shot there. 480 00:24:32.099 --> 00:24:35.339 And he also makes it clear that you've met your room. 481 00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:40.319 Like he does this twice, I think, where the person is reflected in 482 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:44.460 the glass that has the number of the room. 483 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:49.500 So Amy's face is visible when it's room 7 and then we open the 484 00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:52.200 door and see that her greatest fear is being abandoned by the 485 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:54.720 doctor and then we do it again with the doctor. 486 00:24:54.779 --> 00:24:59.700 And just that stuff is, everything is sort of so rich and 487 00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:04.380 interesting and thoughtful and just, yeah, just interesting to 488 00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:04.920 look at. 489 00:25:04.980 --> 00:25:06.119 It's very very good. 490 00:25:06.299 --> 00:25:09.180 I think the basis of all this. 491 00:25:09.299 --> 00:25:11.759 It has to be said, like Stephen Moffatt's brief, you know, this 492 00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.299 was his his brief to attribute you, was to say, I want a hotel, a 493 00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:15.839 labyrinth. 494 00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:17.819 They're trapped in a labyrinth hotel. 495 00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:22.019 So he and Moffatt has a fantastic instinct for what makes things 496 00:25:22.019 --> 00:25:22.799 frightening. 497 00:25:22.859 --> 00:25:26.279 You know, gas masks children or statues that come to life. 498 00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:28.680 You know, he's got a very good as a starting point. 499 00:25:28.740 --> 00:25:33.359 And a hotel is a brilliant starting point for a Doctor Who story 500 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.660 and we've never really had one or they've never really done it as 501 00:25:36.660 --> 00:25:37.440 fully as this. 502 00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:41.759 And I think that's that does just that idea does an awful lot of 503 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:42.059 work. 504 00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:46.380 And, you know, hotels are instantly he'd have gone, oh, a scary 505 00:25:46.380 --> 00:25:49.680 hotel and it brings you the obvious references of, you know, the 506 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:50.640 shining and stuff like that. 507 00:25:50.700 --> 00:25:55.799 But it doesn't, it's a very Doctor Who idea because it's all magic 508 00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:57.240 doors and corridors. 509 00:25:57.299 --> 00:26:01.019 It feels quite Dr. Huey. we sort of feel like, 0 yeah, this is 510 00:26:01.019 --> 00:26:01.319 right. 511 00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:06.240 And then once you've got the idea of, which presumably Toby 512 00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:10.380 brought in, was like, oh, there's a scary thing in each room, then 513 00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:13.859 you're really cooking, you know, like, and hotel, hotel is a 514 00:26:13.859 --> 00:26:18.299 really interesting place because it's an artificial place. 515 00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:21.119 It's an adult place and I think that's really important. 516 00:26:21.180 --> 00:26:26.400 Like, you, you go, you, if you think about hotels, they're just so 517 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:27.059 bloody odd. 518 00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:31.019 Like you only go there to sort of do business or do business. 519 00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:35.700 You know, you go there to, you know, and there's, I just got me 520 00:26:35.700 --> 00:26:37.619 thinking about hotels and Nathan, you were talking to Ellie about 521 00:26:37.619 --> 00:26:40.500 like, you know, weird and wonderful hotels, and we've all had 522 00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:42.119 their weird experiences because they're just weird. 523 00:26:42.180 --> 00:26:45.180 And also, depending on what kind of hotels you go to. 524 00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:49.319 They're really just the principal thing there is just a bed to 525 00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:52.500 sort of sleep in or read Doctor Who magazine in. you know, like 526 00:26:52.500 --> 00:26:55.740 it's a very, and when you go in there, you get this kind of, I 527 00:26:55.740 --> 00:26:59.279 mean, it's very exciting going to hotel because you're like, ooh 528 00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:01.799 you know, I've got this little private bubble and privacy is 529 00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:04.019 absolutely what you're there for. 530 00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:07.079 And you think, oh, I can do anything on my holiday or for whatever 531 00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:08.220 reason, I'm in that hotel. 532 00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:12.480 But when you come out, you just see all of those doors with all 533 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:15.000 these other possibilities and privacies in there. 534 00:27:15.059 --> 00:27:19.740 And so you get this kind of infinite amount of kind of private 535 00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:23.640 adult desire to kind of wonder what's behind that. 536 00:27:23.700 --> 00:27:25.440 And that's so rich. 537 00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:29.460 It's like, you know, it inevitably, you know, I think as a selling 538 00:27:29.460 --> 00:27:32.220 point, the one where it's a hotel and there's something scary 539 00:27:32.220 --> 00:27:35.099 behind every door is why we turn up. 540 00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:37.920 You know, we could, there's, there's lots of things at play here. 541 00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:42.000 There's the hotel, you get, you get the, the mythical stuff that 542 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.519 Toby Witt has think is really interesting to bring to it. 543 00:27:44.579 --> 00:27:48.960 But for me, I think the real why we're all here is to see what's 544 00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:51.359 behind everyone else's doors or to see what's your own. 545 00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:56.759 And I think inevitably you do ask yourself what's behind, you know 546 00:27:56.759 --> 00:27:57.000 yours. 547 00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:58.980 And I think that's a sort of nice game to play at home. 548 00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:05.400 I think as well, Tebby House has a really good stir, like it 549 00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:06.359 really stirs you up. 550 00:28:06.420 --> 00:28:07.980 It's actually very, very disturbing. 551 00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:13.619 And they slightly fudge what's behind the door because we all, they 552 00:28:13.619 --> 00:28:15.119 actually say, what's behind the door? 553 00:28:15.180 --> 00:28:18.900 Oh, it's bad dreams and just for the 1st half of it, I think all 554 00:28:18.900 --> 00:28:21.539 that anyone has said is behind that, no one said it's your darkest 555 00:28:21.539 --> 00:28:21.900 fear. 556 00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:24.539 Everyone's just, I think for the 1st half they've just said, oh 557 00:28:24.539 --> 00:28:25.319 it's bad dreams. 558 00:28:25.380 --> 00:28:27.900 That doesn't quite cover it. 559 00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:30.240 You know, there's all sorts of things behind there, right? 560 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:32.940 Because they can't really show your deepest, darkest desire 561 00:28:32.940 --> 00:28:35.099 because that is unshowable. 562 00:28:35.099 --> 00:28:38.519 And if you ask yourself the question, you'll probably sort of say 563 00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:39.839 little phobia you've got. 564 00:28:39.900 --> 00:28:42.779 You won't really say what your deepest, darkest fear is. 565 00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:46.019 And I think it's just summed up really, really, really brilliantly 566 00:28:46.019 --> 00:28:49.980 by in the 1st line in the pre-credits thing where he says, you 567 00:28:49.980 --> 00:28:52.019 know, you don't know what's going to be in your room until you see 568 00:28:52.019 --> 00:28:54.119 it and then you realise it could never have been anything else. 569 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.039 I think that's brilliant. 570 00:28:56.099 --> 00:28:58.680 Because if you do play that game and go, what's behind mine? 571 00:28:58.740 --> 00:29:02.759 You'll come up with something, your standard phobia or something 572 00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:06.420 or a trauma or an embarrassment, but you won't really come up with 573 00:29:06.420 --> 00:29:09.480 your deepest darker spheres because you can never really know it. 574 00:29:09.480 --> 00:29:12.839 And it's because it's so it's really deeply stirring that 575 00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:15.900 psychological pot, which for I think on a Saturday night is really 576 00:29:15.900 --> 00:29:16.319 rich. 577 00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:19.980 Conrad, I think you're right in that, like, corridors are the 578 00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:23.819 fundamental of Doctor Who, and hotels are just full of corridors 579 00:29:23.819 --> 00:29:27.240 and so it's weird that we haven't had an episode set in a hotel 580 00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:27.720 before. 581 00:29:27.779 --> 00:29:31.559 Um, I also think it was probably a little bit sad with the 582 00:29:31.559 --> 00:29:33.839 changing running order that this and night terrors was so close 583 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:36.720 together because night terrors does that similar thing of that 584 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:40.079 moffity thing of taking sort of an everyday location and making it 585 00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:41.819 weird and other. 586 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:44.759 It might have worked better in the 1st half of the season. 587 00:29:44.819 --> 00:29:46.920 Also, could just make sure they understood you properly. 588 00:29:46.980 --> 00:29:49.140 When you get your copy of Doctor magazine, You take it to a hotel 589 00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:50.880 and read it with as much privacy as possible. 590 00:29:50.940 --> 00:29:51.960 Yeah, I need it. 591 00:29:52.019 --> 00:29:52.619 I need it. 592 00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:54.180 I just need to feel that. 593 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:55.079 I need to be honest. 594 00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:56.339 I got a different room for every issue. 595 00:30:09.059 --> 00:30:12.599 We don't get to see what's in Amy's room. 596 00:30:12.660 --> 00:30:13.440 She sees it. 597 00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:16.799 We don't see it at first, and then it's only later when they sort 598 00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:17.640 of hide in there. 599 00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:20.880 And we don't get to see what's in the doctor's room at all. 600 00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:25.559 And I think it's very clear despite what might happen later that 601 00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:26.880 the doctor's in his room. 602 00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:30.480 And I think for it to work, that's what it has to be. 603 00:30:30.539 --> 00:30:35.339 And so his line is, oh, yes, of course, who else would it be? 604 00:30:35.579 --> 00:30:42.900 And in the context of the story, he's his own fear because the 605 00:30:42.900 --> 00:30:47.099 things that he says to Amy about himself are all true, that he's a 606 00:30:47.099 --> 00:30:52.140 vain man who brings people along with him because he likes being 607 00:30:52.140 --> 00:30:56.400 admired and he puts them at risk. 608 00:30:56.460 --> 00:31:01.259 And this is the thing I think that's underappreciated about the 609 00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:04.140 11th doctor is that he's not always a very nice person. 610 00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:05.400 He seems lovely. 611 00:31:05.460 --> 00:31:07.319 He's good with kids, all of that sort of thing. 612 00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:11.400 But there is a complexity to the character. 613 00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:15.119 And I think, you know, he's the one who has the god complex in 614 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:16.319 dialogue, isn't he? 615 00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:20.819 I mean, this is the god complex in the sense that it's inhabited 616 00:31:20.819 --> 00:31:23.400 by a thing that compels you to worship it. 617 00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:27.420 But Rita accuses him of having a god complex. 618 00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:34.680 And it's very clear that he undergoes some kind of understanding 619 00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:38.160 that he's been doing the wrong thing and that he has to put a stop 620 00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:38.640 to her. 621 00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:43.500 It's interesting that it's called out by Rita and then by the 622 00:31:43.500 --> 00:31:45.000 Minotaur at the end. 623 00:31:45.059 --> 00:31:50.400 They both have clocked his basic character in a way that Amy and 624 00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:55.920 Rory have been almost blinded to Rory less so than Amy, but again 625 00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:00.420 the story in some ways is about the doctor breaking Amy's faith in 626 00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:02.519 him and letting her go. 627 00:32:02.579 --> 00:32:06.119 And then he doesn't let her go because he keeps coming back for 628 00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:07.200 her after that. 629 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:13.140 But though, I think their relationship is different from what it 630 00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:13.980 has been before. 631 00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:17.579 I think that it's possible to overread something that is being 632 00:32:17.579 --> 00:32:20.579 thrown together over a period of months and stuff like that, and 633 00:32:20.579 --> 00:32:23.279 they're not always as careful as they might be to seed character 634 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:27.299 development into these stories, but certainly the fact that from 635 00:32:27.299 --> 00:32:32.220 here on in, the doctor drops into her life and takes her on 636 00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:37.079 adventures rather than her just tailing along behind him all the 637 00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:38.039 time. 638 00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:41.339 You know, like I think that this is a good transition between 639 00:32:41.339 --> 00:32:46.920 those phases of the character, where she's not scared of waiting 640 00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:47.940 for him anymore. 641 00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:53.039 Her biggest fear was being sat there being forced to wait for the 642 00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:53.819 doctor. 643 00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:58.859 And after this, she's no longer afraid to do that, and she can 644 00:32:58.859 --> 00:33:03.240 live her life with Rory in a house and just wait for the doctor to 645 00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:04.680 come back whenever he does. 646 00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:08.099 And Stephen will carry that on with the next companions as well. 647 00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:11.519 I mean, spoilers, Clara and Bill both have a home base and then 648 00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:13.200 they go off for adventures with the doctor. 649 00:33:13.259 --> 00:33:14.400 They're not trailing around after him. 650 00:33:14.460 --> 00:33:16.500 That's true, isn't it? 651 00:33:16.859 --> 00:33:21.359 So maybe he stopped doing it until he turned into Jody and then 652 00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:21.599 forgot. 653 00:33:23.099 --> 00:33:27.059 But it's also, isn't it, the transition when the doctor calls her 654 00:33:27.059 --> 00:33:31.980 Amy Williams, rather than Amy Pond, and it's that transition where 655 00:33:31.980 --> 00:33:36.240 she's with Rory, and that should be her focus and her life. 656 00:33:36.299 --> 00:33:40.680 And suddenly that changes the whole dynamic. is like the doctors 657 00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.920 realised, oh, hang on, something is not right in this 658 00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:44.519 relationship. 659 00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:46.140 We need to fix this. 660 00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:50.160 I'm going to buy them a house and a car and champagne and 661 00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:53.700 everything will be great and off you go, you have your life and 662 00:33:53.700 --> 00:33:55.920 I'll drop in from time to time and it'll be fine. 663 00:33:55.980 --> 00:33:59.099 And she started work on Monday as a geography teacher. 664 00:34:00.779 --> 00:34:06.180 Calling her Amy Williams is also rejecting her role as like the 665 00:34:06.180 --> 00:34:07.799 heroin in a fairy tale as well. 666 00:34:07.859 --> 00:34:11.219 Remember when the doctor hears her name, Amelia Pond sounds like 667 00:34:11.219 --> 00:34:12.539 the name in a fairy tale. 668 00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:17.099 And then he gives her the name Amelia Williams, which she's 669 00:34:17.099 --> 00:34:20.639 already said, sounds like like Melody Williams sounds like a 670 00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:21.659 geography teacher. 671 00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:23.760 Hasn't she complained about that last name? 672 00:34:23.820 --> 00:34:28.440 And so it is just an ordinary human name and she's going to end 673 00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:31.440 the story leading a sort of ordinary life. 674 00:34:31.619 --> 00:34:35.940 That's still got, you know, fun, weird, wacky adventures in it and 675 00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:36.179 stuff. 676 00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:40.139 We're not going to be bored watching it next year, but, uh, yeah 677 00:34:40.139 --> 00:34:43.380 it marks a real transition and maybe a, maybe a more fundamental 678 00:34:43.380 --> 00:34:46.500 transition in the, in Moffatt's conception of the character. 679 00:34:47.219 --> 00:34:52.320 Yeah, do you think it would be best for Amy and Rory's story to 680 00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:58.079 finish here or do you like them coming back for 7 A and all those 681 00:34:58.079 --> 00:34:59.099 adventures afterwards? 682 00:34:59.460 --> 00:35:04.500 The triumph at the end of series five, and I said this over and 683 00:35:04.500 --> 00:35:11.159 over again, was that Amy was rejecting adulthood in favour of 684 00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:13.860 childhood and then at the end she was able to have both. 685 00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:16.559 And I wanted to still have both. 686 00:35:16.619 --> 00:35:21.239 So I don't think that leaving her here is the right thing. 687 00:35:21.300 --> 00:35:23.579 I like what happens next year. 688 00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:26.699 I have a big problem with their final episode, which will 689 00:35:26.699 --> 00:35:31.440 obviously get to when we get there. like with how that story 690 00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:32.099 ends. 691 00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:34.980 I think it's deeply unsatisfying. 692 00:35:34.980 --> 00:35:38.639 So I do think this is a good transition rather than a good 693 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:39.960 potential stopping point. 694 00:35:40.380 --> 00:35:43.679 I think I'm quite, to be honest, I think I've got to sort of 695 00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:47.760 confess, I'm quite old-fashioned, and I think I like my companion 696 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:52.079 leavings, like I like my generations, only used in direst 697 00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:52.860 emergencies. 698 00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:55.500 I don't, like it's something that's very traumatic and very 699 00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:55.980 special. 700 00:35:56.039 --> 00:35:58.800 I went through, like, my 1st companion leaving with Sarah Jane, and 701 00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:02.039 my 1st doctor leaving was Tom Baker, both of which were deeply 702 00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:02.519 traumatic. 703 00:36:02.579 --> 00:36:05.099 But like, well, not traumatic, but they were really big. 704 00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:08.579 And so like I just am wired to want that weight to it. 705 00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:12.000 So I don't really like sort of dropping people off, saying goodbye 706 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:13.739 bringing them back, killing them, bringing them back. 707 00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:17.699 And then, and this, this, I have to sort of say that this is, For 708 00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:21.000 me, this sort of series is where Doctor Who starts to break up for 709 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:25.199 me as a, you know, I go into a phase where I don't really, I sort 710 00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:27.659 of, you know, Steve Moffatt's here, I like, I really like series 711 00:36:27.659 --> 00:36:28.079 five. 712 00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:30.659 I really like series 10 and everything else in the middle kind of 713 00:36:30.659 --> 00:36:33.780 lost me and this is where it starts to break up for me. 714 00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:37.739 So I'm, I'm, And as a viewer, I generally sort of lose my thread a 715 00:36:37.739 --> 00:36:38.820 bit, I kind of need to know. 716 00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:39.719 I'm quite simple. 717 00:36:39.780 --> 00:36:41.159 I just need to know who's in the tires. 718 00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:44.519 I don't that I can't keep up next week if they're driving. 719 00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:46.440 But yeah, and I think it's legitimate. 720 00:36:46.500 --> 00:36:50.760 I think this becomes a legitimate concern and as the leavings and 721 00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:56.340 dyings and coming back accelerate to a point where I really can't 722 00:36:56.340 --> 00:36:57.659 follow it and I also don't care. 723 00:36:57.719 --> 00:37:00.780 You know, like it's, um, it's a group, it has to be said, it's a 724 00:37:00.780 --> 00:37:04.079 great leaving scene and the, uh, the, just the chemistry between 725 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:05.519 those 3 is ridiculous. 726 00:37:05.579 --> 00:37:12.659 I mean, the whole scene is beautifully played and and Karen Gillon 727 00:37:12.659 --> 00:37:15.539 whose acting has come up hugely, you know, she's clearly coming 728 00:37:15.539 --> 00:37:18.300 with a lot of personalities. has always been a hugely likeable 729 00:37:18.300 --> 00:37:21.239 person, but, you know, she's said her acting in the 1st one to 730 00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:24.420 where she is now, with Matt Smith just leaning up against a car 731 00:37:24.420 --> 00:37:27.239 having a little joke about washing up and they kind of giggle and 732 00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:30.420 when he goes back into Target, he just gives that silly, awkward 733 00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:32.039 way before he goes and she just laughs. 734 00:37:32.099 --> 00:37:36.599 It's heartbreakingly beautiful and you, in that moment, like I 735 00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:39.539 don't know that they knew the difference between what they were 736 00:37:39.539 --> 00:37:40.800 playing, how much they loved each other. 737 00:37:40.860 --> 00:37:42.539 It is so deeply beautiful. 738 00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:43.920 So it's beautiful. 739 00:37:43.980 --> 00:37:46.440 Well, I don't generally like the Levington Cummings back. 740 00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:49.260 It's beautifully played by those three. 741 00:37:49.500 --> 00:37:50.579 The chemistry is off the scale. 742 00:37:50.820 --> 00:37:52.320 Definitely. 743 00:37:52.380 --> 00:37:54.360 It's so beautifully done. 744 00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:55.559 I mean, I cry. 745 00:37:55.619 --> 00:38:00.059 My 1st leaving scene was also Sarah leaving and I was 10. 746 00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:03.239 It was a repeat on the ABC and I was inconsolable. 747 00:38:03.300 --> 00:38:09.239 And I cry even now during this scene, even though I know they'll 748 00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:10.559 be back briefly next week. 749 00:38:10.619 --> 00:38:17.099 And I think it's, it is underplayed, like it's not overwrought at 750 00:38:17.099 --> 00:38:20.519 all and there's no bad blood or anything. 751 00:38:20.579 --> 00:38:24.539 And even when the doctor says, you know, I'm leaving you behind 752 00:38:24.539 --> 00:38:27.539 because the possibility is that I, you know, you're still 753 00:38:27.539 --> 00:38:30.599 breathing and I might be standing over your broken body, but even 754 00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:33.300 those lines, which are pretty hefty. 755 00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:35.760 He kind of tosses off. 756 00:38:35.820 --> 00:38:38.039 It's not overwrought. 757 00:38:38.099 --> 00:38:40.739 Like it's not mawkish or anything. 758 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:45.300 It's still light, but it's still sort of incredibly moving and 759 00:38:45.300 --> 00:38:46.199 there's even comedy. 760 00:38:46.260 --> 00:38:51.420 There's a gorgeous bit where Amy tells Rory to go back into the 761 00:38:51.420 --> 00:38:52.920 house and give her 2 minutes. 762 00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:57.059 And Rory tries to do that, but he's distracted by the car. 763 00:38:57.059 --> 00:38:58.980 And he can... 764 00:38:58.980 --> 00:39:04.199 He's kind of trying to decide whether to just stay and stroke the 765 00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:07.079 car or admire the car or do what Amy has said. 766 00:39:07.139 --> 00:39:08.280 It's wonderful. 767 00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:13.440 I think pardon the reason it packs a punch is that he's not saying 768 00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:14.940 goodbye to them for space reasons. 769 00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:18.719 He's saying goodbye to them for real emotional reasons, and that 770 00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:23.099 probably feeds into Nathan, your disaffection for their leaving 771 00:39:23.099 --> 00:39:25.199 next year in that that is for space reasons. 772 00:39:25.260 --> 00:39:25.800 Yeah. 773 00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:26.400 Yeah. 774 00:39:26.460 --> 00:39:28.679 There are 2 things that I really liked. 775 00:39:28.739 --> 00:39:31.800 First, that it was the doctor's choice and not the companion's 776 00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:33.840 choice, which is something we don't see very often. 777 00:39:33.900 --> 00:39:38.639 And the doctor realising that he wants to save his friends and the 778 00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:41.099 best way to save them is to give them their life back. 779 00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:45.059 And also that he doesn't say goodbye to Rory. 780 00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:45.900 It happened. 781 00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:50.280 Rory goes into the house and he doesn't say a word to him. 782 00:39:50.340 --> 00:39:54.239 It's all about him and Amy just for that moment, which I think 783 00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:56.820 says quite a lot about the doctor. 784 00:39:56.940 --> 00:40:00.960 Yeah, but it's also, it's a very believable in that sort of blokey 785 00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:01.260 relationship. 786 00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:03.780 He's given him the car and he knows what an idiot Rory is and Rory 787 00:40:03.780 --> 00:40:04.559 would be glued to the car. 788 00:40:04.619 --> 00:40:06.539 He was like, he's done his bit, you know, and they had their 789 00:40:06.539 --> 00:40:08.579 moment of like, look, I don't care what you say to her, but can I 790 00:40:08.579 --> 00:40:09.000 just keep the car? 791 00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:09.900 and he's like, yeah, sure. 792 00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:10.800 You know, it's like this. 793 00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:15.179 Yeah, they're so believable that there's, you know, the 3 of them 794 00:40:15.179 --> 00:40:17.940 as actors and characters are just, I mean, they're real goals. 795 00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:19.500 They're one of the one of the best teams. 796 00:40:19.619 --> 00:40:23.760 You need a little factor. one heart men at Torchwood, so she could 797 00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:25.860 say, oh, I didn't realise you travelled with their husbands. 798 00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:31.800 And also, we're going right back to the beginning where he's just 799 00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:34.019 like, they're in this hotel and he says, you need to have 800 00:40:34.019 --> 00:40:34.320 arrived. 801 00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:35.340 And he's like, this is really exciting. 802 00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:37.320 Amy, Beaky, let's do this. 803 00:40:37.380 --> 00:40:39.659 And he's like, I have no idea whether, you know, I'm sure it's in 804 00:40:39.659 --> 00:40:41.099 the script, but like, you don't really know. 805 00:40:41.099 --> 00:40:45.239 Because I easily could have been a map edition or something that 806 00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:47.460 you, but you know they love those moments, you know. 807 00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:51.599 Like when he kisses him in that in dinosaurs in the spaceship, he 808 00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:53.820 just grabs him and kisses him and they both have a bit moment. 809 00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:56.159 It's like, it's it's really great. 810 00:40:56.219 --> 00:40:58.320 You know, they really sort of roll with all of that sort of 811 00:40:58.320 --> 00:40:58.559 stuff. 812 00:40:58.559 --> 00:40:59.639 And, you know, Amy does too. 813 00:40:59.699 --> 00:41:00.539 Karen does too. 814 00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:01.980 They're such a natural team. 815 00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:06.780 Matt's chemistry with Arthur is really not commented on as much as 816 00:41:06.780 --> 00:41:08.639 he's chemistry with Amy, but it's all there. 817 00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:12.659 They have that great scene earlier on where the doctor's kind of 818 00:41:12.659 --> 00:41:17.460 trying to work out the nature of what's going on here and talking 819 00:41:17.460 --> 00:41:20.699 about Rory not believing in anything. 820 00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:24.539 You know, and it is, there is a surprising amount of exposition 821 00:41:24.539 --> 00:41:28.559 here, but you don't feel like there is. 822 00:41:28.619 --> 00:41:31.199 You know, Rita comes in. 1st person that we meet. 823 00:41:31.260 --> 00:41:33.900 Rita comes in and explains things after we've had a scene where 824 00:41:33.900 --> 00:41:37.920 Matt explains things and now Matt and Rory are kind of there 825 00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:40.019 working things out. 826 00:41:40.139 --> 00:41:44.340 And again, it's just sort of so understated and so interesting. 827 00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:47.159 They're looking at the at the photographs and all of that sort of 828 00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:47.639 thing. 829 00:41:47.699 --> 00:41:54.780 And there's that beautiful scene where Rory eulogises Howie. 830 00:41:54.900 --> 00:42:01.860 How he had overcome that stammer, and not every kind of victory 831 00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:04.019 has to be saving the universe. 832 00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:06.900 And it's Rory, you know, he's a nurse. 833 00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:08.159 It's grounded. 834 00:42:08.219 --> 00:42:11.820 Rory's ready to have victories that aren't about saving the 835 00:42:11.820 --> 00:42:12.420 universe. 836 00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:17.579 And is it that scene where Rory talks about the time when we were 837 00:42:17.579 --> 00:42:20.519 on the TARDIS and the doctor calls him out for using the past 838 00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:21.059 tense? 839 00:42:22.139 --> 00:42:24.780 Yeah, that's so good, isn't it? 840 00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:28.500 It's so subtle and you don't notice it the 1st time until the 841 00:42:28.500 --> 00:42:29.699 doctor mentions it. 842 00:42:29.820 --> 00:42:34.019 It's just, yeah, really, really brilliant and lovely piece of 843 00:42:34.019 --> 00:42:34.320 writing. 844 00:42:34.380 --> 00:42:38.639 And poor old Howie, who's so great. played by the exceptionally 845 00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:41.340 attractive Dimitri Leonidas. 846 00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:43.260 And, yeah, he's so good. 847 00:42:43.260 --> 00:42:45.960 And, you know, his night his nightmare is a room full of the only 848 00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:46.860 ways Essex. 849 00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:48.000 So, you know, mine too. 850 00:42:50.219 --> 00:42:53.099 But they're mocking him for his stammer. 851 00:42:53.099 --> 00:42:55.619 And, you know, for being a nerd as well. 852 00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:57.780 They're mocking him for being a Star Trek fan, you know. 853 00:42:58.019 --> 00:42:59.760 Which fair enough. 854 00:43:18.179 --> 00:43:22.260 This is why I turn up to a story, and I remain fascinated by 855 00:43:22.260 --> 00:43:22.440 this. 856 00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:25.320 It's, like, it's, um, and I think it's such a... 857 00:43:25.380 --> 00:43:27.960 I can tell this is a very strong idea, because I'm more interested 858 00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:32.159 in the hotel and the rooms than I am about the, uh, The giant 859 00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:36.360 monster man, which is very much my bag, half man, half beast, in a 860 00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:38.519 leather leather kilt, chosen down a corridor. 861 00:43:38.579 --> 00:43:40.980 I mean, boo-hoo, you know, it's fabulous. 862 00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:44.940 The minor thing is fine, but it's really not the... 863 00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:50.639 I'm so fascinated by the, the, The other time, because there's 864 00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:53.340 there's, they set up the, you know, the god complex thing and you 865 00:43:53.340 --> 00:43:55.860 get the mirroring of the minus draw and the doctor and all, and 866 00:43:55.860 --> 00:43:58.559 that story of, of saviours and all that stuff. 867 00:43:58.619 --> 00:44:02.760 But I think the thing I can't get past that's so strong is the 868 00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:05.820 people's relationship where they're with their own fears. 869 00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:11.460 And, um, this, there becomes this theme of surrender, like of, I 870 00:44:11.460 --> 00:44:13.739 think, I think the most genuinely disturbing thing. 871 00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:16.860 And you touched an earlier site, is those shots where you see the 872 00:44:16.860 --> 00:44:21.599 person about to, you know, in their in their rapture and you get 873 00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:25.019 those jump cuts of them crying and screaming and then just 874 00:44:25.019 --> 00:44:29.639 particularly with Rita, just like giggling in total kind of 875 00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:30.780 drooling ecstasy. 876 00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:35.340 And those moments are so disturbing because that is sort of 877 00:44:35.340 --> 00:44:37.619 despite all our lovely stories, we tell ourselves, that is what's 878 00:44:37.619 --> 00:44:40.380 going on, you know, in the hind brain at all times. 879 00:44:40.380 --> 00:44:44.760 And to actually see that on screen, on is incredibly disturbing 880 00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:48.960 and unsettling and jump cutting between those, we'll fry our 881 00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:51.900 brains a bit and touch that sort of lizard brain at the back of us 882 00:44:51.900 --> 00:44:52.800 that's terrified. 883 00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:57.960 And I think the scary thing is, and it touches him with a doctor's 884 00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:00.960 god complex and try, I can't say these people, because they keep 885 00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:04.860 wandering and drawn to these things, you know, and like we want to 886 00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:06.539 look with the doctor saying, I have to see it. 887 00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:09.239 And every night, people sort of unloosing their bonds running 888 00:45:09.239 --> 00:45:14.280 towards this creature when Amy sees it and when she's sort of been 889 00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:17.280 got, and she started praising it, when she turns around, her look 890 00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:20.880 is what my look would be if I saw that thing, which is, you know 891 00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:25.199 come and get me big boy. you know that should have been the title 892 00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:25.800 of this episode. 893 00:45:27.300 --> 00:45:30.900 But, you know, like, but the real film, why the doctor can't keep 894 00:45:30.900 --> 00:45:33.300 travelling. what we're act, you know, there's what we're told, and 895 00:45:33.300 --> 00:45:36.300 then what we're actually seeing on screen is the doctor in a hotel 896 00:45:36.300 --> 00:45:40.619 and all his friends keep just wandering off and opening their 897 00:45:40.619 --> 00:45:45.179 doors and drawn towards this, you know, and it's a deeply 898 00:45:45.179 --> 00:45:46.380 psychological thing. 899 00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:48.900 And it's all in the mix, and he uses those references, you know 900 00:45:48.900 --> 00:45:50.639 when the doctor looks through that thing, you get that shot from 901 00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:52.920 Psycho, you have the eye peering through it. 902 00:45:52.980 --> 00:45:54.539 The pleasure of looking at it. 903 00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:59.460 Um, it's just, it's the, the horror of, that we've all got inside 904 00:45:59.460 --> 00:46:03.960 a somewhere of just wanting to surrender, the sort of death drive 905 00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:04.739 you know, stuff. 906 00:46:04.739 --> 00:46:07.019 And that is, that's really underneath it. 907 00:46:07.019 --> 00:46:08.639 And I can't really get over that. 908 00:46:08.699 --> 00:46:10.920 I think that's what draws me to this story so much. 909 00:46:10.980 --> 00:46:14.940 And even though the fears are, you know, not watered down, but 910 00:46:14.940 --> 00:46:18.059 they're made nice and broad, so we can all, you know, someone, when 911 00:46:18.059 --> 00:46:20.820 I was a kid, the sort of like the PE thing would have been like, oh 912 00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:22.199 yeah, that's the worst thing I can think of. 913 00:46:22.260 --> 00:46:26.400 Um, you know, and it's, I'm just so drawn to that and it's, um 914 00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:31.800 Yeah, the compulsion towards something awful and unknowable. 915 00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:33.239 I just obsessed with it. 916 00:46:33.300 --> 00:46:36.900 And so for me, the kind of the appeal is that Victorian freak 917 00:46:36.900 --> 00:46:37.199 show. 918 00:46:37.260 --> 00:46:40.440 There's a different thing behind each door, the sort of, you know 919 00:46:40.440 --> 00:46:42.780 at 1st I was like, oh, now, how many minor tour stories of the 920 00:46:42.780 --> 00:46:44.639 doctors, you know, it's Doctor Who Done, and there's been a good 921 00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:47.519 few of them, but it's not, the mythical thing isn't really the 922 00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:49.260 most interesting thing to the story. 923 00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:52.739 It's definitely that menagerie of fears, you know, it's carnival 924 00:46:52.739 --> 00:46:56.880 of monsters and, you know, mind dropper and the fantasy factory in 925 00:46:56.880 --> 00:46:59.519 the ultimate foe, that bit where Mel goes in. 926 00:46:59.579 --> 00:47:03.000 He's like, don't go through that dragon fire scream close to the 927 00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:03.360 door again. 928 00:47:03.420 --> 00:47:05.099 You know, like, I love those moments. 929 00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:08.519 And it's like, it's just all those possibilities and that's what 930 00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:11.039 doctors like. you know, Doctor Who is a little sort of Doctor 931 00:47:11.039 --> 00:47:11.519 Who. 932 00:47:11.579 --> 00:47:15.420 The whole episode is like Doctor Who in 11 building. 933 00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:19.019 On one level, it is kind of like you're just being stalked by a 934 00:47:19.019 --> 00:47:21.599 monster through corridors and there's horrors behind doors. 935 00:47:21.659 --> 00:47:22.500 That's very dog too. 936 00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:26.039 But like you say, Conrad, it's also about how you process those 937 00:47:26.039 --> 00:47:30.539 fears and how your brain works with them and the visual grammar of 938 00:47:30.539 --> 00:47:32.760 the episode really highlights that. 939 00:47:32.820 --> 00:47:35.760 And I think gives it, like, really helps with that extra level. 940 00:47:35.820 --> 00:47:37.199 Definitely. 941 00:47:37.260 --> 00:47:40.079 And then also you've got the character of Gibbis, which is, who is 942 00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:42.659 like all about, you know, he's just there to surrender, his 943 00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:45.780 purpose in life is to surrender to oppressors and stuff. 944 00:47:45.780 --> 00:47:48.239 And it's like, it's, that's, that's a whole nother thread that 945 00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:51.539 isn't really, They didn't sort of talk about it explicitly to the 946 00:47:51.539 --> 00:47:54.960 story, but to me, that's what this story is about, is, but, you 947 00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:57.000 know, we can all take, we all got our own rooms. 948 00:47:57.059 --> 00:47:58.320 You know, we'll all take something different from it. 949 00:47:58.380 --> 00:48:02.400 I'm wondering whether it's trying to say something about faith as 950 00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:02.639 well. 951 00:48:02.699 --> 00:48:06.780 I mean, the fact that Rita is explicitly religious and comes up 952 00:48:06.780 --> 00:48:14.280 with a kind of theological response, like her initial kind of 953 00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:18.659 assessment of what's going on is that she's in hell and she's 954 00:48:18.659 --> 00:48:23.340 consoling herself that she has tried to live well in accordance 955 00:48:23.340 --> 00:48:24.360 with her religious beliefs. 956 00:48:24.420 --> 00:48:29.880 So she is explicitly said to be Muslim and a religious Muslim, I 957 00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:30.119 think. 958 00:48:31.380 --> 00:48:37.440 And the doctor has been, you know, since, what, since New Earth 959 00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:42.300 the doctor has been kind of called things like the lonely god. 960 00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:47.400 Um, And then the giant David Tennant arrogance at the end of his 961 00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:51.119 incarnation in waters of Mars and all of that sort of thing, that 962 00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:55.019 the doctor risks behaving like a god. 963 00:48:55.079 --> 00:48:58.800 And the important thing that this story has to say, I think, is 964 00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:08.340 that God is a terrible thing. that the desire to surrender to 965 00:49:08.340 --> 00:49:13.500 something sort of ultimately terrifying and unknowable is a bad 966 00:49:13.500 --> 00:49:13.860 thing. 967 00:49:14.219 --> 00:49:17.940 When Rita says that the doctor has a god complex, she's 968 00:49:17.940 --> 00:49:19.019 criticising him. 969 00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:24.000 And sort of God himself is depicted as someone who is a bit sick 970 00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:29.159 of being worshipped and actually wants out, you know, it ends with 971 00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:33.900 kind of God's dissolution in a way and a dissolution of the whole 972 00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:36.059 world that he's created. 973 00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:37.260 So I don't know, I don't know. 974 00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:40.860 There is something there about faith, and I'm not sure if I'm 975 00:49:40.860 --> 00:49:42.719 reading it in a plausible way. 976 00:49:42.900 --> 00:49:47.579 I think you are, but I think some of that does get muddled. 977 00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:50.699 I think for me, and I know, and I watched it straight, like, so I 978 00:49:50.699 --> 00:49:52.559 haven't seen it rages, and so I just switched the lights off and 979 00:49:52.559 --> 00:49:54.480 just like, I'm just going to watch this straight through, and I've 980 00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:57.659 had the sense that that moment sorry that you, you pulled up, which 981 00:49:57.659 --> 00:50:00.179 I think is an incredibly strong moment of where he says, we're 982 00:50:00.179 --> 00:50:02.159 going to catch ourselves a monster or whatever it is. 983 00:50:02.219 --> 00:50:03.059 He says that moment. 984 00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:06.179 And I remember after I was thinking that, that feel. 985 00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:08.880 I bet that's a 3rd of the way through or a halfway through and it 986 00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:11.639 is literally 22 minutes in and that's a classic episode dot 2 987 00:50:11.639 --> 00:50:12.480 cliff. hang a moment. 988 00:50:12.539 --> 00:50:16.199 And I think everything in that 1st episode, I think it's the 989 00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:18.780 mystery and all that kind of stuff, all that stuff I love, the, you 990 00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:20.940 know, all fear and the monster stuff and the buildup, which is so 991 00:50:20.940 --> 00:50:21.179 good. 992 00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:22.679 I think that bit's perfect. 993 00:50:22.739 --> 00:50:27.539 And I think from the bathroom spa moment, which for some reason in 994 00:50:27.539 --> 00:50:29.820 my head, I imagine, this must be the centre of the maze 995 00:50:29.820 --> 00:50:32.400 misremembering anything, like all my mythology. 996 00:50:32.460 --> 00:50:34.920 But then I was like, mirrors, is that something I got mixed up 997 00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:35.639 with the Medusa? 998 00:50:35.699 --> 00:50:39.480 But I think from then things do start to get muddled and I think 999 00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:45.480 it really falls apart, you know, when the hotel kind of breaks 1000 00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:49.019 down and you see the, you know, whatever's behind it. 1001 00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:53.820 And the explanations that come afterwards are extremely muddled. 1002 00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:55.199 And I've sort of listened. 1003 00:50:55.260 --> 00:50:58.019 I didn't understand it. 1st time every time I've watched it, I've 1004 00:50:58.019 --> 00:50:59.099 never really figured out. 1005 00:50:59.159 --> 00:51:00.599 So what happened here? 1006 00:51:00.659 --> 00:51:04.619 And I, even this time I had to pause every time Matt Smith said 1007 00:51:04.619 --> 00:51:05.460 something to write down. 1008 00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:06.480 So wait. 1009 00:51:06.539 --> 00:51:09.480 And if I've got this right, and I'm just going to go straight to 1010 00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:11.460 all the mess in the muddle here and see what you figure it out. 1011 00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:16.440 But like, so these, this creature, distant relation, distant 1012 00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:17.699 cousin to the 9 ones. 1013 00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:19.739 I love it when monsters are cousins. 1014 00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:23.880 Oh my God, I love I can just imagine there's crappy Silurians and 1015 00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:25.199 you know, and whatever. 1016 00:51:25.260 --> 00:51:25.619 Yeah. 1017 00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:26.940 Oh, God, it's his birthday. 1018 00:51:26.940 --> 00:51:27.840 And the family parties. 1019 00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:29.699 Yeah. 1020 00:51:29.699 --> 00:51:31.440 Yeah, exactly. 1021 00:51:31.500 --> 00:51:32.699 You go to Ixan's birthday. 1022 00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:34.980 Oh, no, it's really... 1023 00:51:34.980 --> 00:51:36.179 I love it. 1024 00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:39.599 So like, they're distant Coke cousins of the Naimons. 1025 00:51:39.659 --> 00:51:44.099 They set themselves up as gods to be worshipped until the 1026 00:51:44.099 --> 00:51:48.360 inhabitants one day overthrow them and become put them in a 1027 00:51:48.360 --> 00:51:49.079 bonkers prison. 1028 00:51:49.139 --> 00:51:51.960 So I was like, okay, they overthrew this thing, they put it in a 1029 00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:52.260 prison. 1030 00:51:52.260 --> 00:51:56.760 And they put it in a prison where it could be kept alive through 1031 00:51:56.760 --> 00:51:59.579 beaming people in and feeding off their fears. 1032 00:51:59.579 --> 00:52:05.579 And I'm just like, Okay, but like it takes a long time, it took me 1033 00:52:05.579 --> 00:52:07.860 a lot of watches and pauses to just put that explanation together 1034 00:52:07.860 --> 00:52:09.059 and it doesn't really make sense. 1035 00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:10.199 It doesn't make sense dramatically. 1036 00:52:10.260 --> 00:52:12.960 It's like this monster that we're all scared of is like, we're 1037 00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:16.619 very quickly aware that it's a night. beautiful and it's nice and 1038 00:52:16.619 --> 00:52:19.739 the moment he starts translating, you know, what's that you say? 1039 00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:23.639 You know, it's like, you know it's sympathetic and I think even 1040 00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:27.239 visually, like when the hotel breaks down and you see all this 1041 00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:28.860 digital stuff behind it. 1042 00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:31.739 That space doesn't make sense at all. 1043 00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:35.039 And there's a, there's one moment where it's not just the CGI, the 1044 00:52:35.039 --> 00:52:38.099 actual visual composition of what this room is supposed to be is 1045 00:52:38.099 --> 00:52:39.659 just garbage. 1046 00:52:39.719 --> 00:52:43.739 It's like there's a tron floor, there's a couple of like lousy 1047 00:52:43.739 --> 00:52:44.579 console things. 1048 00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:45.900 There's a cup. 1049 00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:47.940 Yeah, basically, isn't it? 1050 00:52:48.059 --> 00:52:49.920 And there's a couple of portholes in the floor. 1051 00:52:49.980 --> 00:52:51.239 There's a spotlight on the monster. 1052 00:52:51.300 --> 00:52:52.199 The TARDIS over there. 1053 00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:54.840 And at one point they start putting in these kind of weird, you 1054 00:52:54.840 --> 00:52:57.059 can't even make out what they are, these kind of a bit of a 1055 00:52:57.059 --> 00:52:58.019 spatial, a bit of that. 1056 00:52:58.079 --> 00:53:00.840 It doesn't make the visually it doesn't make sense and I think 1057 00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:01.500 it's because... 1058 00:53:02.579 --> 00:53:05.940 It's an inherent problem in fantasy stories is how you get out of 1059 00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:08.579 it, you know, it's like in Beauty and the Beast. 1060 00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:11.159 Does anyone really like it when he turns back into the prince, is 1061 00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:12.539 anyone pleased to see the prince? 1062 00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:14.639 Like, no, it always just feels like a shame. 1063 00:53:14.699 --> 00:53:17.460 You know, like all when Dorothy goes back from her fabulous 1064 00:53:17.460 --> 00:53:20.460 adventure in the city with amazing new friends, back to Hicksville 1065 00:53:20.460 --> 00:53:21.480 with her inbred cousins. 1066 00:53:21.539 --> 00:53:24.059 That's not really... 1067 00:53:24.059 --> 00:53:25.559 So there's a problem with fantasy stories. 1068 00:53:25.619 --> 00:53:27.960 How do you get them back without it spoiling the fun? 1069 00:53:28.019 --> 00:53:32.519 And I think also there's something's not quite thought through. 1070 00:53:32.579 --> 00:53:35.760 This is a prison. like, okay, this hotel is really a space 1071 00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:36.239 prison. 1072 00:53:36.300 --> 00:53:39.719 You know, hotels are buildings with corridors with lots of doors 1073 00:53:39.719 --> 00:53:40.139 behind them. 1074 00:53:40.199 --> 00:53:43.739 Prisons are buildings with corridors, lots of doors behind them. 1075 00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:47.760 It does, it's something, I think, I think, Nathan, I think some 1076 00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:49.199 thematically, some of the things are confusing. 1077 00:53:49.260 --> 00:53:53.460 So I think deep down that I think there's, It's not quite fully 1078 00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:55.079 it's not fully, it's a few drafts off. 1079 00:53:55.320 --> 00:54:01.739 Yeah, I think I think trying to come up with any sort of coherent 1080 00:54:01.739 --> 00:54:08.760 reading of it stumbles at the fact that it wants to have your 1081 00:54:08.760 --> 00:54:10.559 greatest fears in the rooms. 1082 00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:14.400 And so the doctor concludes that it's a monster that lives off 1083 00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:17.460 fear, but weirdhouse doesn't want to do that. 1084 00:54:17.519 --> 00:54:20.219 He wants to make it about faith. 1085 00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:23.820 And so there's a lot of sort of connective tissue that has to be 1086 00:54:23.820 --> 00:54:28.260 built in order for a story about a hotel that contains your 1087 00:54:28.260 --> 00:54:30.179 greatest fears to somehow be about faith. 1088 00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:33.960 And it has to be about faith in order to do the character job that 1089 00:54:33.960 --> 00:54:36.059 it does and all of that. 1090 00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:42.360 And in a way, in a way, insisting that we come away with an 1091 00:54:42.360 --> 00:54:44.699 explanation of everything might be the problem. 1092 00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:49.079 You know, it is that any explanation of this is going to be 1093 00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:49.679 stupid. 1094 00:54:49.739 --> 00:54:51.360 Like, it's a stupid idea. 1095 00:54:51.420 --> 00:54:52.260 Why build it? 1096 00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:57.360 It's like, you know, why just kill it. 1097 00:54:57.420 --> 00:54:58.440 Do you know what I mean? 1098 00:54:58.500 --> 00:54:59.460 Like just kill the thing. 1099 00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:03.059 You know, she was trying to, I was literally trying to think, it's 1100 00:55:03.059 --> 00:55:03.900 like, well, I'm going really light. 1101 00:55:03.960 --> 00:55:06.000 I really not happy then. he was like, okay, what would you have 1102 00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:06.719 done, clever clubs? 1103 00:55:06.780 --> 00:55:07.019 What? 1104 00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:07.679 what it in the old days? 1105 00:55:07.739 --> 00:55:08.519 Well, the doctor 2 story? 1106 00:55:08.579 --> 00:55:12.119 I was like, I think I'd like to sort of blown it up and run away. 1107 00:55:13.019 --> 00:55:16.440 That was my amazing quick, set the timer. 1108 00:55:16.500 --> 00:55:18.300 And they run through the door. 1109 00:55:18.360 --> 00:55:19.079 They all leap. 1110 00:55:19.139 --> 00:55:22.739 There's a big explosion like, phew. off we go. 1111 00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:24.480 So that's me writing up to. 1112 00:55:24.539 --> 00:55:28.139 It's like, it's very, but making you right. the only thing to do 1113 00:55:28.139 --> 00:55:28.800 is just stop it. 1114 00:55:28.860 --> 00:55:31.980 It's like, it's very hard to bolt this reason on the end. 1115 00:55:31.980 --> 00:55:37.079 You know, the whole idea, the whole, it just, like, you remember 1116 00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:39.719 there was a series of sort of not sufficiently executed enough 1117 00:55:39.719 --> 00:55:43.380 monsters and stuff, you know, people like Eldrad and sort of, yeah 1118 00:55:43.380 --> 00:55:44.880 it's kind of like that. 1119 00:55:44.940 --> 00:55:48.719 They could have just killed the Minotaur rather than imprisoning 1120 00:55:48.719 --> 00:55:51.059 him in this sort of giant weird holodeck. 1121 00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:53.280 And yes, obviously it doesn't make any sense. 1122 00:55:53.340 --> 00:55:57.119 And that's not a problem for Doctor Who, except if we're going to 1123 00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:01.800 spend the running time trying to justify it, which is kind of 1124 00:56:01.800 --> 00:56:02.340 tedious. 1125 00:56:02.940 --> 00:56:06.599 But also, Doctor Who has never investigated faith and the 1126 00:56:06.599 --> 00:56:09.119 collision between faith and religion with any interesting 1127 00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:10.079 outcomes. 1128 00:56:10.139 --> 00:56:11.460 It's just not that kind of show. 1129 00:56:11.519 --> 00:56:14.639 I think the closest we ever got was the Satan Pit, where the 1130 00:56:14.639 --> 00:56:18.659 doctor and I talk about the nature of faith, and she says, it's 1131 00:56:18.659 --> 00:56:22.199 the devil, is the things that men do, and the doctor says that 1132 00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:24.960 religion is, I don't believe we've seen everything. 1133 00:56:25.019 --> 00:56:29.579 And that's the kind of open-ended kind of outcome that you need 1134 00:56:29.579 --> 00:56:32.460 when you're looking in an episode at what faith is about. 1135 00:56:32.519 --> 00:56:35.340 You're bound to not come away with very satisfying answers in Dr 1136 00:56:35.340 --> 00:56:35.639 Day. 1137 00:56:59.699 --> 00:57:02.039 Well, me listener, that's all we have time for this week. 1138 00:57:02.099 --> 00:57:06.960 We'll be back next week to stock up on lamps and vegetables in 1139 00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:07.679 closing time. 1140 00:57:08.460 --> 00:57:12.239 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts 1141 00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:15.119 and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook 1142 00:57:15.119 --> 00:57:18.420 at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website 1143 00:57:18.420 --> 00:57:21.059 FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other 1144 00:57:21.059 --> 00:57:26.099 podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterterra, maximum power, and 1145 00:57:26.099 --> 00:57:28.139 untitled Star Trek project. 1146 00:57:28.199 --> 00:57:30.119 Until next time. 1147 00:57:30.300 --> 00:57:32.039 Praise him. 1148 00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:35.880 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 1149 00:57:35.940 --> 00:57:36.900 Good night. 1150 00:57:37.019 --> 00:57:37.920 Good night. 1151 00:57:38.039 --> 00:57:38.760 Good night. 1152 00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:45.960 That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter 1153 00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:49.380 Griffith, Siheart and Conrad Westness, theme arrangement by 1154 00:57:49.380 --> 00:57:50.340 Cameron Lamb. 1155 00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:53.699 This episode, something really different on screen, was recorded 1156 00:57:53.699 --> 00:57:57.480 on the 5th of September 2021 and released on the 28th of 1157 00:57:57.480 --> 00:57:57.840 November. 1158 00:57:58.860 --> 00:58:03.659 Spinoff idea for this episode, hotel manager King Minos, John 1159 00:58:03.659 --> 00:58:07.800 Cleese, runs a hotel in Johanna. with his wife, Safei, Prunella 1160 00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:11.880 Scales, and her son, the beast, Marak Anton, who constantly 1161 00:58:11.880 --> 00:58:16.199 exasperates his stepfather, by eating the guests, and smashing all 1162 00:58:16.199 --> 00:58:16.860 the crockery. 1163 00:58:19.920 --> 00:58:22.260 That could even be an hour now that you've killed the 1164 00:58:22.260 --> 00:58:22.619 conversation. 1165 00:58:25.679 --> 00:58:29.340 It's gonna be the absolute definitive statements that well. 1166 00:58:29.400 --> 00:58:30.239 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1167 00:58:30.300 --> 00:58:35.280 Is there anyone who feels that anything that they wanted to say 1168 00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:36.119 has not been said? 1169 00:58:36.179 --> 00:58:37.739 Yes, I do. 1170 00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:39.539 There's 2 things. 1171 00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:40.440 Go on. 1172 00:58:41.039 --> 00:58:45.780 Okay, 1st of all, I'm really pleased they didn't do this in series 1173 00:58:45.780 --> 00:58:50.519 5 because Michael Pickwode got to design the set. 1174 00:58:50.579 --> 00:58:51.239 Well spotted. 1175 00:58:51.239 --> 00:58:55.139 And the set design is absolutely spot on. 1176 00:58:55.199 --> 00:59:01.980 It is exactly what an 80s UK hotel looked like from the flowery 1177 00:59:01.980 --> 00:59:07.739 Axminster carpet to the flowery floral wallpaper that's very 1178 00:59:07.739 --> 00:59:08.400 pale. 1179 00:59:08.460 --> 00:59:10.619 The corridors that go on forever. 1180 00:59:10.679 --> 00:59:12.840 It's an absolute masterpiece of design. 1181 00:59:12.900 --> 00:59:13.739 He is so good. 1182 00:59:13.800 --> 00:59:17.460 How dire would it have been with paper mill something, something? 1183 00:59:17.519 --> 00:59:18.659 Exactly. 1184 00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:22.920 They imprisoned him in a in a paper meal that contained all of 1185 00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:24.000 your darkest fears. 1186 00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:29.699 And watching the, because I watched the confidential episode about 1187 00:59:29.699 --> 00:59:31.139 it all as well. 1188 00:59:31.260 --> 00:59:34.800 And it is literally just 2 corridor sets. 1189 00:59:34.800 --> 00:59:35.340 Yeah. 1190 00:59:35.340 --> 00:59:40.320 But it feels like it's so expansive because of the way it's shot 1191 00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:41.159 all the way through. 1192 00:59:41.219 --> 00:59:43.380 It's, yeah, he's so brilliant. 1193 00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:44.340 He just brings it. 1194 00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:46.619 It's helped by by Harran. 1195 00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:50.099 Like there's that scene where the doctor's running after Rita and 1196 00:59:50.099 --> 00:59:52.619 we go through all of those corridors that all seem to sort of 1197 00:59:52.619 --> 00:59:57.000 ramify off one another in these sort of strange ways, but like I 1198 00:59:57.000 --> 00:59:59.760 was never in any doubt that it was any more than just one 1199 00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:00.480 corridor. 1200 01:00:00.539 --> 01:00:01.019 No. 1201 01:00:01.019 --> 01:00:04.320 It's a perfect corridor. 1202 01:00:04.380 --> 01:00:06.059 It really is. 1203 01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:09.000 And also, he's such a lesser designer would have gone, oh, Ryan 1204 01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:11.760 80s hotel and run out and bought lots of Athena things and made it 1205 01:00:11.760 --> 01:00:15.119 very neon and whatever, but he, you know, Michael Pittwood knows 1206 01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:19.260 that an 80s hotel looks like is left over from the 50s, 60s, 40. 1207 01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:23.880 And it's, it's, actually, I did have a question on that. 1208 01:00:23.940 --> 01:00:27.360 It's just like, what, what, why a 1980s hotel? 1209 01:00:27.420 --> 01:00:29.460 I mean, I'm not asking that of the people who built the prison 1210 01:00:29.460 --> 01:00:31.500 because they've clearly got their own reasons for doing everything 1211 01:00:31.500 --> 01:00:36.239 but like, like, apart from maybe the shining reference, but like 1212 01:00:36.239 --> 01:00:39.119 what, what, I mean, I think obviously putting things in a period 1213 01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:41.460 does enclose it off into a little bubble. 1214 01:00:41.519 --> 01:00:42.059 So it does that. 1215 01:00:42.119 --> 01:00:48.000 But some of the 80s thing, I was like, I'm just not quite sure 1216 01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:48.420 what it did. 1217 01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:50.760 It gave you a Rubik's cube, which, you know, it's brilliant. 1218 01:00:50.820 --> 01:00:52.500 You see one minute unsolved. 1219 01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:55.139 And there's a few look in magazines there and a bit of a rouche 1220 01:00:55.139 --> 01:00:58.619 curtain, but I didn't know, I just didn't, I was like, why 1980s 1221 01:00:58.619 --> 01:00:59.699 hotel, I suppose, why not? 1222 01:00:59.760 --> 01:01:02.099 I think it's the series being meta. 1223 01:01:02.159 --> 01:01:05.219 I think they just wanted to look exactly like the hotel that the 1224 01:01:05.219 --> 01:01:07.079 cast stated when they were filming. 1225 01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:10.019 Do you know what I think it is? 1226 01:01:10.079 --> 01:01:14.940 I remember when the 80s started and I was like 11 or whatever and 1227 01:01:14.940 --> 01:01:17.880 you know, the 70s for a long time where the decade that Star 1228 01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:22.800 forgot and the 80s was sort of really, you know, new and modern 1229 01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:25.739 and fabulous and neon, as you said, Conrad. 1230 01:01:25.800 --> 01:01:29.760 But there is something just deeply miserable about it. 1231 01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:38.280 And you know, like if you're staying in a hotel in England in 2010 1232 01:01:38.280 --> 01:01:42.179 and it hasn't been renovated for 30 years, that's what it's going 1233 01:01:42.179 --> 01:01:42.599 to look like. 1234 01:01:42.659 --> 01:01:48.659 There's a sort of, it's, it fits in with Rita's idea that she's in 1235 01:01:48.659 --> 01:01:49.260 hell. 1236 01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:53.639 Like this is what hell is like, you know, it's chintzy. 1237 01:01:53.699 --> 01:01:54.599 That is true. 1238 01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:59.699 Also, maybe it was 1980s to make the clown feel at home who's 1239 01:01:59.699 --> 01:02:04.320 played by this actor, Damon Jeffrey, who is Dave, the bloke who is 1240 01:02:04.320 --> 01:02:09.179 washing his car in survival before he got on my game. seats of 1241 01:02:09.179 --> 01:02:09.420 people. 1242 01:02:10.079 --> 01:02:14.699 Oh, your dinner's on the table. home for tea. 1243 01:02:14.699 --> 01:02:16.380 Don't talk to the clown. 1244 01:02:17.039 --> 01:02:19.559 He got whizzed off to the hotel. 1245 01:02:19.619 --> 01:02:21.960 That's why an 80s hotel. 1246 01:02:23.699 --> 01:02:25.320 There we go. 1247 01:02:25.380 --> 01:02:28.800 I was going to say, and the other thing I wanted to mention was 1248 01:02:28.800 --> 01:02:32.940 just how perfect Murray Gold's music is for this episode as well. 1249 01:02:33.000 --> 01:02:37.559 Because he's on autopilot, a lot of the time in this period, I 1250 01:02:37.559 --> 01:02:39.719 feel, after the heights of series 5. 1251 01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:41.099 But he is so good. 1252 01:02:41.159 --> 01:02:46.380 The sort of Musak that plays through the hotel is really good and 1253 01:02:46.380 --> 01:02:51.420 the score for the Minotaur and the Rapture moments are so just 1254 01:02:51.420 --> 01:02:53.639 yeah, it's really, really lovely work. 1255 01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:57.960 Yeah, that moment, I think, you're right, when that moment where I 1256 01:02:57.960 --> 01:03:01.619 think, particularly when Rita is the most the most serious loss 1257 01:03:01.619 --> 01:03:03.960 that we see, that we almost have to switch off because we can't 1258 01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:07.380 see it, the music sounds like like sort of very high pitched 1259 01:03:07.380 --> 01:03:09.360 choral, but almost backwards. 1260 01:03:09.420 --> 01:03:16.320 It's really odd and terribly sad and Yeah, brilliant. 1261 01:03:16.440 --> 01:03:19.860 I'm just a little tired of enemies that don't talk like the 1262 01:03:19.860 --> 01:03:22.019 nestines and the devil in the Satan pit. 1263 01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:24.480 I would have loved the Minotaur to come out with. finally, you 1264 01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:26.159 understand, doctor. 1265 01:03:27.420 --> 01:03:32.219 It's actually, it's actually a little bit unusual to have, you 1266 01:03:32.219 --> 01:03:35.039 know, like a growly monster that the doctor can translate, but 1267 01:03:35.039 --> 01:03:37.019 that we can't understand as the audience. 1268 01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:39.480 That's not something that they've done all that much of. 1269 01:03:39.539 --> 01:03:41.639 No. like the hat, isn't it? 1270 01:03:41.699 --> 01:03:42.719 Yeah, the hat. 1271 01:03:42.719 --> 01:03:46.320 That's right, Hath. 1272 01:03:46.380 --> 01:03:47.699 We should go out on the surface. 1273 01:03:48.539 --> 01:03:50.760 Where you can drown. 1274 01:03:50.820 --> 01:03:51.960 All right. 1275 01:03:52.500 --> 01:03:54.599 I think that's our tag. 1276 01:03:54.719 --> 01:03:55.860 All right. 1277 01:03:55.920 --> 01:03:57.360 I'll do the outro. 1278 01:03:58.980 --> 01:04:02.400 Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.