WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:39:11

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Hello, dear listen, and welcome back to Fly Through Entirety, the

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only Doctor Who podcast that can be both dead and pregnant and not

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pregnant, all at the same time.

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I'm Nathan.

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I pregnant.

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I'm not pregnant.

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I am or am not the wife you've been looking for for this season.

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Well, 3 months ago we attended the doctor's funeral, and a week

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ago, we were guests at his wedding.

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In the meantime, we've met Richard Nixon, some pirates, the

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doctor's wife, twice, belligerent goo people, a scary turf, Hitler

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a time travelling, shape shifting robot operated by miniaturised

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cross people, dollies, malfunctioning medical technology twice, a

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sexy Minotaur, and James Corden.

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Can we make any sense of all of this?

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Let's find out in our series 6 retrospective.

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Sexy Minotaur James Corden.

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Yeah, that's an edit that's not gonna...

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Thanks, Nathan.

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Well, we always start with the hard-hitting questions here, so

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here we go.

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Snog, Mario, void.

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Peter.

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Peter, Elsie, Jen Gibbons.

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Well, you couldn't snog Elsie, because her hips would give way.

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Give us, you could just put him in the closet and he'd look

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scared.

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That would be fine.

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And who's the other one?

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Jen.

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Oh, that's not Rory, is it?

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I would avoid her at all costs as I would the gangers.

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Okay, thank you.

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Dry date, that one.

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Alrighty.

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So one of our listeners, the human palindrome at Mark Cochram.

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Ask this.

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Can you ever have too much of Alex Kingston?

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I'm going to say no.

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I have to say that there is something about the episodes that

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she's in, and it's not just her performance.

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It is also just the fact that the doctor has a friend who's a

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recurring character, a returning meme.

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Yeah, and who works really well with the other regular cast, I

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think.

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I think about the Angels 2 parter from last year.

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So much of that was about her relationship with a doctor and her

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relationship with Amy.

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And having her back over and over again for the arc episodes this

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year is just great, I think.

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That is such a good point.

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Would young Matt have hit his strides so well if it weren't for

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Alex Kingston in that opening story, really showing him tone.

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Because actors for actors, it's the feel of the piece.

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It's the feel in the space of the piece, is it not?

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You've both acted, so.

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Yeah, I mean, people play off one another and respond to one

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another.

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Yeah, and raising the tone to a sassy screwball 30s, Preston

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Sturgis comedy type thing, which, you know, Kingston is a fan of

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and so is our lovely Stephen.

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I think you can have far too much of River song, but that which

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elevates whoever song is Alex Kingston.

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I think what you're saying about Time of Angels, just go back to

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last season is correct because she was there in Matt and Karen's

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very 1st scenes on the beach and I think they kind of imprinted on

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her and she was a really valuable presence.

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Rubbing the oil of performance. amelioration into each other.

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Come on.

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And I think every time she turns up this season, you kind of cheer

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at the screen.

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And so when she fires the gun and knocks the Stetson off the

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doctor's head.

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You just, you know it's going to be her before you see her and

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it's just amazing. you're looking forward to it The only time I

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think you can get maybe a little bit too much of River is in Let's

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Kill Hitler, which is an otherwise interesting episode, but I

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think it asks a little bit too much of her charisma in the same

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way as it does of Matt's.

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And so that's the only point where I find her presence a little

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bit wearing, but she's phenomenal.

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And the actors had to work.

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Real horrid in that one to get the charm factors up, didn't they?

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Because there was not a lot of charm happening.

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Yeah, there was a lot of quirk.

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A lot of interest.

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Yeah, but yeah, totally.

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Yes, I do agree on that point.

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I've been listening to you guys talk about those episodes, which I

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was not in, and it was very interesting listening to you, Nathan

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in your points of view on Let's Kild, Hitler, and certainly Alex's

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performance in that as she performs as Mel's.

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And for me, it's always slightly off-putting.

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Like, it doesn't feel like River Song.

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And I struggle with the whole Mel's concept anyway.

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Again, you put forward a really good sort of defence about how we

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well, a defence, a point of view.

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Like we drop into the Amy and Rory's storyline, and we only see

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bits and pieces, and it's okay not to know about mills, and you

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sort of did it as a parallel to Wilf.

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But I see it a bit differently because we have Donna for an

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episode, and then we have Wilfred episode, and then they're both

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in it together.

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And it's not like we have a whole season of Donna without Will

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being mentioned.

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Right.

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And so if they'd mentioned Mills in a piece of dialogue back in

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season 5 at some point, just something between Amy and Rory, I

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really would have paid it off.

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Whereas in this season, I feel that, to me, it comes across like

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I'm desperately trying to rescue the whole plot that I've set up

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to make it more palatable for people, you know, or some quirky

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tricks.

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So for me, it just doesn't pay off the same way.

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But you were also talking about in an episode about the test

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selector, which I didn't like the 1st time through.

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Because again, I just thought it was a get out of jail free card

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and we're just introducing it in this episode because we have to

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would it be better to introduce it previously and seed that sort

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of thing.

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But I'm now completely, that's under 180 on that, because I think

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if you'd seeded at like the previous season, then people would

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have just said, oh, yeah, he's going to use that.

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Whereas Stephen putting it in that episode, like, yeah, it

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actually is a good thing.

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You know, I think, but it happens too much this season where it's

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sort of like, we need the gangers, so they're in that episode to

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explain what's happening to Amy and we need Mel's to explain that

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and we need the test selector.

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So it's just the same trick for me happening in the same

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episodes.

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But it was really good listening to your points of view.

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Well, you see, I think this is clearly the most complex and

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ambitious arc that the show ever attempts, and it never goes back

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again.

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And you can see Moffatt reacting against it next year with series

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7 where it's a series of movies that have no sort of linked arc.

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And that's not quite true.

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There are character arcs in series 7, but nevertheless, he doesn't

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ever do this again.

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And having each episode somehow contribute to the arc, while not

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being an arc story, like the gangers, for instance, which we

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didn't think was very successful, but introduces an important

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concept, I think that's actually quite good.

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And I don't think the arc is as complex as everyone says.

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I think it is reasonably straightforward.

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Is that right?

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I think it's pretty straightforward, but you can see the parts

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moving with it.

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It doesn't mesh to the rest of the season all that well.

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So we keep returning to it, to reiterate it because it doesn't

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feel organic to the rest of the story.

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It's like it's been imposed on top of the season.

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And so you've got banner episodes which do deal with it.

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And on the episodes which don't.

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You keep having to jimmy it in with kind of scenes in the TARDIS

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where they'll talk about Amy's pregnancy or the fact that the

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doctor died and he doesn't know.

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So it just feels like it's a little bit of hard work, not much, but

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a little bit.

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Yeah.

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I think he kind of is anxious about the ark.

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And so that's where...

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It's really racist.

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Because, yeah, not me.

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It's like he keeps having these scenes which are just completely

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unnecessary.

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And I think I have a sort of shrieking fit earlier on this season

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on FDA where I complain that an episode begins with exactly the

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same scene that had ended the previous episode with Rory and Amy

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talking about the doctor being dead.

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And it's kind of like, come on, you know.

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Fireside chat by that stuff, isn't it?

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Yeah, we bet you can always do it previously on Doctor Who.

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Like, you don't have to give us this stuff over and over again.

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I think that's the break and accelerator feeling we have with this

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season.

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It's so contemporaneous.

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It felt so fresh at the time and it is.

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And the way it's filmed and the way it's performed.

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Everything about the production values is so now then.

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But the concepts are actually Hugo Gurn's back apart from the

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phantom pregnancy thing, which is maybe a bit more ray-brebery, but

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they're all 40s, 50s. tropes.

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They really are, all those things.

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The gangers, the robot monster man.

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These are pulp fiction, 30s, 40s, golden age ideas.

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There's nothing really bling in this.

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And maybe that actually helps because if they had been proper meta

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current SF as you're getting in short stories and, you know, as

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you've been getting in SF writing now for 30 years, I don't think

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you'd keep the audience.

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Oh, we're up to flux.

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Well, I mean, the thing is that neither Moffatt nor Davies are

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really interested in science fiction.

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I don't think they're SFO, can't they?

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No, no, I don't think Moffat, Stephen Moffat is.

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ITD would probably dabble in the.

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It's now so esoteric and speculative.

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And it's been so gender fluid, actually, for at least 2 decades

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that really the only current SF that I've been getting in Doctor

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Who really since the 70s is the Jody season now.

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But that's getting ahead of ourselves, isn't it?

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way ahead.

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Yeah, but no, I think that maybe there's a certain comfort level

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in this.

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If they hadn't done the pregnancy thing, what do you think?

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If they hadn't done that, everyone would have felt a little, well

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not just a little.

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It would have fitted better.

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It would have might have been a bit more Trad.

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If you're going to go way out there, be careful where you go.

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Yeah, I think I observe that when I heard Amy was pregnant when

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she tells the doctor in that. opening 2 parter.

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It's in the 1st episode, isn't it?

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That I thought that this is something a show would be unlikely to

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be able to actually deal with and guess what?

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You know?

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Do you think it's a failure or do you think it is just a misstep

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or...

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So remember that Moffat doesn't mind being cruel to his characters

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because they're fictional, right?

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So no person was harmed in the making of this episode.

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So he does terrible things to Bill.

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He does terrible things to Clara.

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He does terrible things to Amy.

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But...

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I just think the pregnancy thing was a lapse in taste.

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I think that's the problem.

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There's an ick factor to it.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And it's kind of...

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There is something about a heterosexual man watching their partner

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be pregnant, that sometimes people find alienating.

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You know, like your wife is going through this thing, but you're

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external too.

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And it's all kind of, it's like she's put in a tube and you know

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it kind of experimented on.

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Like it's weird and I just think some of that stuff is leaking

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into the show.

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There's a kind of ickiness about pregnancy that's being expressed

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here, which I just think is unfortunate.

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Can you not use words like leaking and expressing?

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Yeah, there is there is a Nick factor.

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And I think it permeates the rest of the season as well because

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this season, well, I'm at pains to say it is still pretty good in

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a lot of places.

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It lacks the fun light touch that last year had.

249
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So it feels like some of the fun has been drained out of it.

250
00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:23.580
And that affects a whole lot of different things.

251
00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:24.899
It affects the storytelling.

252
00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.259
It affects the performances of the leads, I think, who are still

253
00:13:28.259 --> 00:13:33.059
giving immaculate performances, but just not quite as much of a

254
00:13:33.059 --> 00:13:34.500
light touch as they had last year.

255
00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:36.480
Yeah, I think that's right.

256
00:13:36.539 --> 00:13:41.879
I mean, last year's plot was all about Amy fleeing her wedding in

257
00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:43.740
order to have fun with her imaginary friend.

258
00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:47.639
And so there is sort of huge lightness about it and it's about

259
00:13:47.639 --> 00:13:49.379
childhood and all of that sort of thing.

260
00:13:49.379 --> 00:13:54.899
Now it becomes sort of miserably about adulthood in, you know, a

261
00:13:54.899 --> 00:13:58.139
sort of Buffy series 6 kind of way.

262
00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:01.559
And it just is sort of slightly unpleasant.

263
00:14:01.620 --> 00:14:06.659
And I do think that scene where Amy's baby collapses into a pile

264
00:14:06.659 --> 00:14:07.440
of sick.

265
00:14:07.500 --> 00:14:12.059
You know, maybe that seemed better on the page.

266
00:14:12.539 --> 00:14:19.259
But once, once you see Karen Gillen reacting to it in a way that

267
00:14:19.259 --> 00:14:24.659
you know, a classic series actor would not have, I'm seeing Nicola

268
00:14:24.659 --> 00:14:26.700
Bryant setting fire to the studio.

269
00:14:26.700 --> 00:14:31.559
Yeah, well, yeah, no, I mean, Nicola Bryant, again, has the same

270
00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:33.659
problem, doesn't she, in case she's a Nasani?

271
00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:35.039
She's too good.

272
00:14:35.100 --> 00:14:38.220
And I think Karen is too good for that scene and so the distress

273
00:14:38.220 --> 00:14:38.879
is too real.

274
00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:42.360
And even though it's a sort of science fiction thing that could

275
00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:43.139
never happen.

276
00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.500
Her reaction brings such reality to it.

277
00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:49.679
It's too close to everything, you know, who's a couple or a single

278
00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:51.480
person who's had a miscarriage.

279
00:14:51.539 --> 00:14:52.799
It's just too damn close.

280
00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:53.879
Yeah, yeah.

281
00:15:08.940 --> 00:15:12.659
So that sort of leads to a question here from one of our listeners

282
00:15:12.659 --> 00:15:16.440
Fluxa Gregory, champion of the damned, at Felix Fraser.

283
00:15:16.500 --> 00:15:19.440
As this to say, what 3 things, and it can be anything from behind

284
00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:22.559
the scenes to what was broadcast, would you change about this

285
00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:23.100
series?

286
00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:27.059
So it sounds like the whole pregnancy storyline is certainly one

287
00:15:27.059 --> 00:15:29.340
thing that we would consider.

288
00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:29.820
Yeah.

289
00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:31.799
Could you have kept the pregnancy though?

290
00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:34.740
You see, this is the sad thing is it's one of the current missing

291
00:15:34.740 --> 00:15:38.220
episodes and that I do remember seeing it a very long time ago

292
00:15:38.220 --> 00:15:41.039
this story that we're talking about, but I actually have no real

293
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:42.899
recollection of how it hangs together.

294
00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:46.200
And I just feel that feel that if we, you know, maybe we could do

295
00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:48.659
a reconstruction of it and sort of rewrite it.

296
00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:51.059
I told the Celestial Toymaker is a great story too.

297
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:53.039
The massacre.

298
00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:54.419
Go back and say, yes.

299
00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:55.259
Well, I guess.

300
00:15:55.320 --> 00:16:00.179
No, pregnancy is not, you know, the giving of life or the most

301
00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:03.600
emotional experience you can possibly go through is not something

302
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:07.740
that we should divert ourselves from, but we should tackle it with

303
00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:09.059
as you said, with taste.

304
00:16:09.299 --> 00:16:12.720
But I think that's also the pressures of the time of the writing

305
00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:15.480
you know, when you're under the hammer to get things out.

306
00:16:15.539 --> 00:16:19.080
You know, I think Stephen in the past when he's been in the

307
00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:20.159
Russell T era.

308
00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:23.279
He's had time to reflect and polish, and here it's sort of like

309
00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:24.899
here's my 1st or 2nd draft.

310
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:27.720
I can't take a state back because I've got to deal with other

311
00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:29.159
things, you know?

312
00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:33.179
And so he has the ability to still deliver really interesting

313
00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:38.580
dialogue and complex stories, but you don't have time to replace

314
00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:40.379
scripts or you don't, do you know what I'm saying?

315
00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:44.039
And we said last season as well, one of the problems that Stephen

316
00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:46.019
faces is that he doesn't have a Stephen.

317
00:16:46.139 --> 00:16:49.200
He doesn't have another reliable person who's delivering someone

318
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:52.200
every season. to give him that sort of little break.

319
00:16:52.259 --> 00:16:53.279
That little respite.

320
00:16:53.340 --> 00:16:54.899
Well, we can look in the past.

321
00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:56.220
What would Terrence Dix have done?

322
00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:59.940
I mean, whether it be Liz Shaw or Romani, you just boot him out at

323
00:16:59.940 --> 00:17:00.720
the 1st time.

324
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:02.460
I'm getting up there.

325
00:17:02.460 --> 00:17:05.579
Or a more victorious case, tosser to the seaweed.

326
00:17:05.700 --> 00:17:09.660
Or you'll hire Bob Baker and Dave Martin and all your problems are

327
00:17:09.660 --> 00:17:10.019
solved.

328
00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:12.900
Oh.

329
00:17:12.900 --> 00:17:15.240
No, couldn't hire him now.

330
00:17:15.299 --> 00:17:16.440
No, no.

331
00:17:16.500 --> 00:17:21.779
I like the idea that Amy is River Song's mother.

332
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:24.000
And yeah, I like that.

333
00:17:24.059 --> 00:17:28.259
And I like her getting to take revenge on Madame Cavare in the

334
00:17:28.259 --> 00:17:28.680
finale.

335
00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:30.599
I think it's great scene.

336
00:17:30.660 --> 00:17:31.200
So good.

337
00:17:31.259 --> 00:17:33.900
Wedding of River Song is actually much better than people think it

338
00:17:33.900 --> 00:17:34.200
is.

339
00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:35.940
Much better than we remember, isn't it?

340
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:37.740
Yeah, we were really positive about it.

341
00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:38.759
I haven't heard that podcast yet.

342
00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:39.480
Yeah, it's good.

343
00:17:39.539 --> 00:17:39.960
It's good.

344
00:17:40.019 --> 00:17:40.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

345
00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:44.099
Interrupting you with another question from one of our listeners.

346
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:45.059
Simon Hart says this.

347
00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:48.240
It's been a series of highs and lows, but which story do you think

348
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:50.519
rise so high and which one feels so low?

349
00:17:50.579 --> 00:17:53.700
And I think the wedding of River song for me is the episode that

350
00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:55.319
actually rised so high.

351
00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:57.119
Yeah I agree too.

352
00:17:57.180 --> 00:17:59.220
I liked it more than I expected.

353
00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:03.900
I liked let's kill Hitler more than I expected. even though I

354
00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:06.599
think that there's some scenes that I don't enjoy watching

355
00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:08.099
watching towards the end of it.

356
00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:15.539
Um, I think that Night Terrace has very little to recommend it, and

357
00:18:15.539 --> 00:18:19.980
I think Curse of the Black Spot is much worse than I remember, and

358
00:18:19.980 --> 00:18:24.720
it's because of those goddamn space corridors.

359
00:18:24.779 --> 00:18:28.559
It promises pirates and just gives us the most dingy, low effort

360
00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:30.299
space corridors imaginable.

361
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:31.200
It's miserable.

362
00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:34.980
Your 1st attempt at interpretive theatre in the school gym.

363
00:18:36.299 --> 00:18:39.059
If only they'd shot it at the paper mill.

364
00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:45.000
Richard, do you highs and lows, which rise so high?

365
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:47.519
I want to be original, but nah.

366
00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:49.259
Exactly what you said.

367
00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:53.039
My lowest still lets kill Hitler because I cannot escape that

368
00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:56.160
which Mr. Moffat should have considered.

369
00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:57.660
I don't know. come back to that.

370
00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:00.059
I agree with Nathan, but what would you have done with the

371
00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:02.339
pregnancy arc, Peter and Todd?

372
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:03.900
What would you have written instead?

373
00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:07.200
Would you have had the baby at all?

374
00:19:07.259 --> 00:19:09.900
Well, I know you can't because your insides are all wrong, but

375
00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:10.740
what would you?

376
00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:14.579
Well, considering that the plot line is River Song is going to be

377
00:19:14.579 --> 00:19:17.519
her child, there is no escaping that, really, is there?

378
00:19:17.579 --> 00:19:23.279
Well, I mean, you could have her not pregnant and still discover

379
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:28.259
that later on she gets pregnant and has, because it's also the

380
00:19:28.259 --> 00:19:29.579
abduction of the baby as well.

381
00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:30.599
That's right.

382
00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:33.059
The thing that I find uncomfortable is kind of the forced Bertha

383
00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:34.859
aspect of the whole thing.

384
00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:35.640
That's quite true.

385
00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:39.359
So maybe more in a girl who waited universe. could have had the

386
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:42.000
child and perhaps there would have been something, they could have

387
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:43.019
been a gentler way of doing it.

388
00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:45.660
I think that he does make attempts to fix it.

389
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:50.759
And they work on a story kind of level on a fictional level.

390
00:19:50.819 --> 00:19:54.420
But if you're watching these imagining real people going through

391
00:19:54.420 --> 00:19:56.759
it, then it's absolutely unsatisfactory.

392
00:19:56.819 --> 00:20:01.440
The fact that, you know, she's a little girl dying of tuberculosis

393
00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:04.079
or something in New York at the end of episode two.

394
00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:06.420
Like it's miserable. terrible.

395
00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:12.240
And then she's got to get herself across to England many years

396
00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:16.440
later and I assume that she would have regenerated into an adult

397
00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:19.920
and then regenerated back into a small child so she could then

398
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:21.180
live as Mel's.

399
00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:21.839
Yeah, that's right.

400
00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:23.279
She is a small child, isn't she?

401
00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:27.180
We do see flashback males in sort of like Matt Smith Capaldi in

402
00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:27.599
reverse.

403
00:20:28.740 --> 00:20:30.660
What about you, Peter?

404
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:32.400
Like, are there any stories that you think?

405
00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:36.299
rows so high or anything that fell down for you?

406
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:40.799
I think the god complex is clearly the best episode of the season

407
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:43.920
not because of what it's attempting, but just because it's a

408
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:48.720
really good old-fashioned, traditional, excellent story, which is

409
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:51.839
really well made, and we're a bit short on those this season.

410
00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:55.980
What I would change, and going back to our previous reader's

411
00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:58.920
question as well, about 3 things you change about the season, all

412
00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:01.980
3 of mine would be the gangers two-parter.

413
00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:06.720
It's just this big mushy ganga's shaped hole in the middle of

414
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:07.259
season.

415
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:08.940
Did we ever find out if they have those, by the way?

416
00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:12.299
I'm crossing my legs.

417
00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:16.619
We got to cover that, didn't we, Peters?

418
00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:19.259
We've been in that.

419
00:21:19.259 --> 00:21:21.900
In that congee.

420
00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:23.880
Yeah, that narrative congee, yes.

421
00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:26.519
It didn't work.

422
00:21:26.579 --> 00:21:30.420
There's a lot of failures in this season for a lot of to equal the

423
00:21:30.420 --> 00:21:31.019
high points, yeah.

424
00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:34.259
It's that thing where people say, oh, I don't like the arc

425
00:21:34.259 --> 00:21:37.200
episodes, but I do like the individual episodes. you kind of go

426
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:37.799
well, what have you got?

427
00:21:37.859 --> 00:21:40.019
You know, girl who waited and God complex.

428
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:41.819
The other individual.

429
00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:43.619
Oh, doctor's wife. his wife.

430
00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:43.859
Yeah.

431
00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:44.339
Yeah.

432
00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:48.059
But the others are not that great, I think.

433
00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:55.259
Yeah, I kind of think last year, those episodes were like above

434
00:21:55.259 --> 00:21:58.680
the seven, for me, whereas this year they're falling below that

435
00:21:58.680 --> 00:21:59.400
right?

436
00:21:59.460 --> 00:22:01.619
And so it's just a dip.

437
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:05.339
And I don't like the gang of stuff I would change that.

438
00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:09.480
I think that Metsk Hitler has Matt's worst performances.

439
00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:10.019
Yes, yep.

440
00:22:10.019 --> 00:22:12.240
Where he has so much being asked of him.

441
00:22:12.299 --> 00:22:15.839
But that whole dying sequence with the cane and all of that on the

442
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:17.460
floor, it just doesn't work for me.

443
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:20.579
It just, that is the Nadir of his performance to the doctor.

444
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:21.839
And I think he's absolutely brilliant.

445
00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:26.039
And that on top of my dislike of the whole Mel storyline.

446
00:22:26.099 --> 00:22:29.220
But I do like all the Tesla Electa stuff and that sort of thing.

447
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:30.900
It just doesn't work for me.

448
00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:32.279
The gangers doesn't work for me.

449
00:22:32.339 --> 00:22:35.579
Although I like a lot of good man goes towards ruined by stuff at

450
00:22:35.579 --> 00:22:36.000
the end.

451
00:22:36.059 --> 00:22:40.859
And then we head into night terrors, which I just, like I just

452
00:22:40.859 --> 00:22:41.579
wanted to turn it off.

453
00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:43.200
Poor night terror.

454
00:22:43.740 --> 00:22:48.599
But for me, the story that really did come up, in my opinion, was

455
00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:49.740
the wedding of the song.

456
00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:55.140
And that sort of rescued a lot of the whole arc and I understand

457
00:22:55.140 --> 00:22:56.339
that really surprising, you know?

458
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:58.680
He's so clever he does pull it together.

459
00:22:58.740 --> 00:22:59.640
Yeah, yeah.

460
00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:03.240
And it's great too, because we're used to the big dumb explosive

461
00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:07.680
finale and this one deals with the arc as a kind of throwaway gag

462
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:08.759
at the end of the episode.

463
00:23:08.819 --> 00:23:12.720
It's really, there's a lightness of touch to it because we've

464
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:15.059
already had the doctor dying in episode one and it's all

465
00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:18.660
overwrought and you've got, you know, again, Karen's reaction to

466
00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:20.220
it, really selling it.

467
00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:25.500
And so to have it a joke at the end, like, it's fun.

468
00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:26.160
Yeah.

469
00:23:26.220 --> 00:23:29.519
And it feels like the 1st fun that Stevens had this season.

470
00:23:29.579 --> 00:23:33.119
I said last season that I would be interested to see Stephen

471
00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:37.500
Moffatt fail, and that's not because I wanted him to produce a bad

472
00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:40.619
episode, but I thought, he's been so consistently brilliant up

473
00:23:40.619 --> 00:23:43.680
until this point, that I wanted to see an episode where he doesn't

474
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:46.859
quite make it work and how interesting that would be.

475
00:23:46.980 --> 00:23:51.359
And all of his episodes this season include the opening 2 parter

476
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:53.880
in this, but certainly a good man goes to war and lets kill

477
00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:54.480
Hitler.

478
00:23:54.539 --> 00:23:58.259
He doesn't quite make it work even though all of the episodes are

479
00:23:58.259 --> 00:24:00.480
packed with interest and cleverness.

480
00:24:00.539 --> 00:24:02.940
And yet by the wedding of River song.

481
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:06.539
I think he has made it work. has that lightness of touchback.

482
00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:10.259
I was going to ask you, Peter, like, about Stephen Moffatt

483
00:24:10.259 --> 00:24:12.660
failures because that was something on my list.

484
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:16.319
Like, you know, how do you feel about his failures this season?

485
00:24:16.380 --> 00:24:20.460
I mean, you'd rather watch a Stephen Moth at failure over Curse of

486
00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:21.359
the Black Spot any day.

487
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:22.200
Oh, yeah.

488
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:23.339
Yeah, at all.

489
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:24.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

490
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:28.019
And it's just, it's, it's the inverse of last season where last

491
00:24:28.019 --> 00:24:31.259
season you looked forward to every arc episode because you knew

492
00:24:31.259 --> 00:24:33.779
that Stephen Moffatt was going to be writing it, and it was

493
00:24:33.779 --> 00:24:35.099
invariably going to be great.

494
00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:39.240
Whereas this season, as we said, some of the single episodes are

495
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:40.259
the best episodes.

496
00:24:40.259 --> 00:24:42.359
And so it feels a little bit topsy-turvy.

497
00:24:43.500 --> 00:24:49.079
I find that I like the girl who waited a lot more than I expected

498
00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:52.559
and it was a little bit like Amy's choice last year where I just

499
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.039
sort of thought it's sort of very high concept and very Star Trek

500
00:24:56.039 --> 00:25:00.779
and stuff like that, and I wasn't sort of super into it, but I do

501
00:25:00.779 --> 00:25:06.119
think that the girl who waited is so lifted by Nick Curran, that

502
00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:08.940
it is one of the best episodes of the series.

503
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:12.420
It's one of the very few Doctor Who episodes where you can

504
00:25:12.420 --> 00:25:16.980
tangibly see the input of the director and how he was raised to

505
00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:18.059
the material, which is already good.

506
00:25:18.180 --> 00:25:20.099
Well, I think the god complex is the same.

507
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:20.880
Yep.

508
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:21.299
Yeah.

509
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:26.759
I like girl who waited this time around because we get to see how

510
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:27.599
good Karen is.

511
00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:28.200
Yeah.

512
00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:31.200
And I've forgotten that 1st time around.

513
00:25:31.259 --> 00:25:34.859
I was conflating, you know, the narrative with the actor, but now

514
00:25:34.859 --> 00:25:37.200
I can see, she she really convinced me.

515
00:25:37.380 --> 00:25:38.759
Yeah.

516
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.420
Well, Richard, like we're on the same wavelength because I've said

517
00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:43.440
it a 1000 times now.

518
00:25:43.500 --> 00:25:47.279
Like, I really didn't like Karen the 1st time through, and looking

519
00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:50.400
at things now, it's more a case of the character of Amy at times

520
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:53.819
rather than actually Karen, whose performances, I think, really do

521
00:25:53.819 --> 00:25:56.220
elevate stuff, and I really like her so much more.

522
00:25:56.279 --> 00:26:01.440
In so many episodes, this season and the Madame Kavarian scene is

523
00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:04.500
just like the pinnacle of all of those things.

524
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:07.980
But I'm not going to discount, like, I think Arthur Darvel is the

525
00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:09.539
unsung hero of so many things.

526
00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:12.900
He's just there all the time and I think his performances are spot

527
00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:15.839
on and I really, really adore him.

528
00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:19.619
So I'm just going to talk about the 3 who, you know, and of course

529
00:26:19.619 --> 00:26:24.539
man is stunning and this team are really, really strong.

530
00:26:24.539 --> 00:26:29.279
And it's a shame in a, I was going to say, it's a shame in a way

531
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:31.319
but it's sort of like Stephen doesn't want to let them go.

532
00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:32.099
No.

533
00:26:32.099 --> 00:26:36.960
And I think narratively, the whole exit of Amy and Rory towards

534
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:40.799
the end of the season, and then the doctor revisiting them in

535
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:44.940
closing time and then seeing them in the Christmas special as we

536
00:26:44.940 --> 00:26:48.779
leave a place for you, and the fact that, you know, they know that

537
00:26:48.779 --> 00:26:52.559
he's alive because River has told her parents.

538
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:55.980
To me, it's sort of like it could be a nice place to leave them as

539
00:26:55.980 --> 00:26:58.680
a positive, like, you know, that our friend, the doctor's still

540
00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:01.259
out there and he will still visit us, but we will move on with our

541
00:27:01.259 --> 00:27:01.500
lives.

542
00:27:01.559 --> 00:27:04.380
We can let go of my imaginary friends.

543
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:08.759
But we have to come back next year and we have to have a different

544
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:13.920
ending and it has to not be good or happy or happy families.

545
00:27:13.980 --> 00:27:14.579
Do you know what I mean?

546
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:17.819
You've already touched on the fact what will happen to other

547
00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:18.359
companions.

548
00:27:18.420 --> 00:27:20.880
It's like Stephen can give his companions no joy.

549
00:27:20.940 --> 00:27:25.079
Nobody and maybe Russell set it up a bit too, is that, you know

550
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:28.920
you travel with a doctor and it's all going to end not in a happy

551
00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:29.339
place.

552
00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:31.980
And it's sort of like I would really like that to happen, you

553
00:27:31.980 --> 00:27:32.220
know?

554
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:37.440
I really do like the fact that the doctor lets Amy and Rory go to

555
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:39.839
an extent and we see them again in closing time.

556
00:27:39.900 --> 00:27:40.680
I really do like that.

557
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:44.579
And if that was all we saw of them in the end, like in the

558
00:27:44.579 --> 00:27:47.579
Christmas special, then I would be really, really happy with their

559
00:27:47.579 --> 00:27:48.059
arc.

560
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:51.480
And that scene at the end of the God complex is fantastic.

561
00:27:51.539 --> 00:27:52.799
It's really really good.

562
00:27:52.859 --> 00:27:53.819
Yeah, yeah.

563
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:55.680
Yeah, it's a great companion departure.

564
00:27:55.740 --> 00:28:02.400
I think that Russell does have the idea that the companion should

565
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:04.619
be better off having travelled with a doctor.

566
00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:10.680
Rose's family gets fixed and they're wealthy and her dad is back.

567
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:17.460
Martha has been through something, but she's a strong person and

568
00:28:17.460 --> 00:28:21.779
is deciding to leave on her own terms to look after her family.

569
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:26.400
And I guess we feel bad because Donna's sort of robbed of that.

570
00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:32.759
But we still see that she's marrying someone nice who, and they're

571
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:35.099
going to win the lottery and all of that sort of thing.

572
00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:37.019
So they're kind of going to be better off.

573
00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:38.519
That's very true.

574
00:28:38.579 --> 00:28:40.380
There is positives in Russell's.

575
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:42.539
There are some negatives as well getting to that point.

576
00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:43.319
Yeah, yeah.

577
00:28:43.380 --> 00:28:44.880
Moffatt doesn't do that.

578
00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:50.339
You know, like 2 of the companions become a doctor or are dead and

579
00:28:50.339 --> 00:28:51.900
become the doctor.

580
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:56.759
And then Amy and Rory are trapped somewhere miserable with no Wi

581
00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:57.779
Fi for the rest of their lives.

582
00:28:57.839 --> 00:28:59.220
I just think it's terrible.

583
00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:02.460
Rose says it, doesn't she?

584
00:29:02.579 --> 00:29:04.079
in Parting of the Way.

585
00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:07.380
She says the doctor shows you a better way of living your life.

586
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:07.920
Yeah.

587
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:12.359
And yeah, no one can make that claim for Amy and Rory or Clara, you

588
00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:12.599
know.

589
00:29:24.660 --> 00:29:30.059
Closing time. is another one that I was a bit down on previously

590
00:29:30.059 --> 00:29:33.299
and I actually like it as a nice little light story at the end of

591
00:29:33.299 --> 00:29:33.900
the season.

592
00:29:33.900 --> 00:29:36.779
I don't think it's as good as episode last year.

593
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:39.059
It needed a Leela, didn't it?

594
00:29:39.299 --> 00:29:42.480
It would have been over in 7 minutes.

595
00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:46.619
No, we do get the cyber mats.

596
00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:47.700
Yeah, good.

597
00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:49.619
Love the cyber thingies.

598
00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:51.299
Do you know what I really would have liked in that episode?

599
00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:55.140
I would have liked to see Cole where James Corden, even though I

600
00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:58.200
think he's very good in the lodger, leaves at the start and the

601
00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:01.440
doctor has the episode with Daisy Haggard.

602
00:30:01.500 --> 00:30:03.900
Daisy Haggard and Stormageddon.

603
00:30:03.900 --> 00:30:06.299
Absolutely, with Stormageddon.

604
00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:07.740
It does get a bit boys club.

605
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:12.240
I can see why because we're showing a Gormous boy who is, you know

606
00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:13.859
has never really managed his life.

607
00:30:14.099 --> 00:30:17.700
He's got a lot of confidence issues and therefore he's the fanboy

608
00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:20.039
of many who's watching it.

609
00:30:20.099 --> 00:30:21.359
I'm not going to use the word I always use.

610
00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:24.119
But 2 men and a baby, isn't it?

611
00:30:24.180 --> 00:30:24.960
Exactly.

612
00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:25.559
That kind of thing.

613
00:30:25.619 --> 00:30:28.799
And I think with, but yeah, I'd rather, I'd rather have Daisy.

614
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:31.740
Stephen could have written a sequel.

615
00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:35.339
How about 2 men and a goo baby with the doctor and Rory and the

616
00:30:35.339 --> 00:30:36.660
goo baby and the TARDIS?

617
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:37.319
That would be amazing.

618
00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:39.900
Oh, no, it's splattered on the floor.

619
00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:40.680
Amy.

620
00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:46.440
I think that was written from Stephen having to deal with the

621
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:51.480
children's. being vomited on.

622
00:30:51.660 --> 00:30:53.819
That milky flow.

623
00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:57.779
Well, qua...

624
00:30:57.779 --> 00:30:58.920
Baby spew.

625
00:30:58.980 --> 00:30:59.339
Yes.

626
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:09.180
So speaking of which, snog marry, avoid.

627
00:31:09.420 --> 00:31:12.960
The silence, the gangers, the test selector.

628
00:31:13.019 --> 00:31:18.119
Wow, I think you marry the Tesla Ector, because...

629
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:19.319
Ouch, though.

630
00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:20.519
It's still got hard edges.

631
00:31:20.579 --> 00:31:23.880
Well, I don't know, you know, like one day he's Tom Hardy, you

632
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:27.900
know, one day he's Nantor from what we do in the shadows.

633
00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:30.599
I can see it.

634
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:34.380
One day he's Agrorian from Blake 7.

635
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:35.339
Absolutely.

636
00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:36.240
Oh, wait.

637
00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:37.440
Am I snogging or marrying him?

638
00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:40.440
I'm marrying him and then repeatedly snogging him.

639
00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:44.160
I would snog the silence because however horrific it is, I

640
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:45.779
wouldn't remember it when I turned away.

641
00:31:47.819 --> 00:31:50.339
We've all been to...

642
00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:52.500
We've all...

643
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:55.559
We've all been to conventions in a year.

644
00:31:55.619 --> 00:31:57.180
That's right That's right.

645
00:31:57.240 --> 00:31:58.559
That's what alcohol's for.

646
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:01.680
And what's the other one?

647
00:32:01.740 --> 00:32:04.980
The gangers. the gangers because they're in a terrible two-part

648
00:32:04.980 --> 00:32:05.220
story.

649
00:32:05.339 --> 00:32:09.000
I think I'd have to marry the silence because that would be

650
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:09.420
amazing.

651
00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:13.019
You come home after a busy day and not have to say anything.

652
00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:15.420
Blessed silent.

653
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:21.000
DJ Alpha T, scarfunk, soul beats.

654
00:32:21.059 --> 00:32:22.079
Ask this.

655
00:32:22.140 --> 00:32:24.660
Do you think there was anything left unresolved?

656
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:28.200
I always thought the silence tunnels under the earth were a

657
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:29.279
dangling plot point?

658
00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:32.819
And what's the revelation as to what the silence are in the day of

659
00:32:32.819 --> 00:32:34.019
the doctor or misstep?

660
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:36.359
We won't talk about that last bit till we get there.

661
00:32:36.420 --> 00:32:40.559
But at this point, were there any points left unsold, and of

662
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:43.380
course, the tunnels under the earth was a dangling plot point?

663
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:45.480
Well, you know the tractators could have used them.

664
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:45.900
Exactly.

665
00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:48.660
Leaves us open for another tractor invasion.

666
00:32:48.779 --> 00:32:50.940
Another visit to Kolkakron.

667
00:32:51.059 --> 00:32:52.920
My favourite planet.

668
00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:57.119
Maybe Madame Cavarian, because, like, although she's killed in the

669
00:32:57.119 --> 00:32:58.980
well, left to die in the alternative timeline.

670
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:00.180
We never do see her again.

671
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:00.660
Do we?

672
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:04.200
No, but I think she's dead because we saw her dead on telly.

673
00:33:04.259 --> 00:33:07.799
You know, Stephen brings characters back when they're dead because

674
00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:09.960
he doesn't care because he knows it's all made up.

675
00:33:10.019 --> 00:33:13.859
But I think having seen her die and kind of plead for mercy and

676
00:33:13.859 --> 00:33:15.420
stuff is so great.

677
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:19.380
I'm just saying that happened, even if the alternate timeline gets

678
00:33:19.380 --> 00:33:21.059
erased or whatever, she's totally dead.

679
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:25.920
I think that the silence, and I think we said it at the time.

680
00:33:25.980 --> 00:33:30.539
It is that thing where suddenly the silence have been with us

681
00:33:30.539 --> 00:33:36.180
because, did I say it's like Scaroth's day off or the Fendal's day

682
00:33:36.180 --> 00:33:40.859
off, you know, you know, influencing human history and evolution

683
00:33:40.859 --> 00:33:44.160
and there's no way to square that with anything else that's ever

684
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:45.359
happened in Doctor Who.

685
00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:47.400
But I kind of don't care.

686
00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:51.480
So, yes, there's tunnels under the earth and we're all

687
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:52.259
repeatedly.

688
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:57.180
This is the thing that we keep running across silence in our

689
00:33:57.180 --> 00:34:01.920
everyday lives and we kill them and then we forget about it and

690
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:02.940
we've all done it.

691
00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:03.960
Todds killed bunches of them.

692
00:34:04.019 --> 00:34:08.639
Oh, yes, you know how I like the odd genocide.

693
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:15.420
I do like that idea, though, that it points in human history, Theo

694
00:34:15.420 --> 00:34:18.000
Ransom and the silence are facing off over who's going to

695
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:19.019
influence WAP bit.

696
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:21.000
That's right and scare us.

697
00:34:21.059 --> 00:34:22.800
They going, I invented the wheel.

698
00:34:22.860 --> 00:34:23.760
I invented the wheel.

699
00:34:25.980 --> 00:34:32.460
I still want to know how the Botswain got taken to that horrible

700
00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:34.860
space corridor ship with the AI.

701
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:36.900
That's my plot point.

702
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:41.639
Yeah, well, that's the scene where Lee Ross gets just edited out

703
00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:47.159
by mistake and disappears and it is a massive flaw in that

704
00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:47.519
episode.

705
00:34:47.579 --> 00:34:52.019
Like it's a kind of act of incompetence that I think we're fairly

706
00:34:52.019 --> 00:34:54.539
seen in the new series. up to this point Yeah.

707
00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:57.960
It's something about the grammar of television that just doesn't

708
00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:00.840
doesn't happen and yet does in that episode.

709
00:35:00.900 --> 00:35:04.079
And so it leaves you feeling a little bit uneasy about kind of the

710
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:07.260
decisions that are being made and how much focus is being put on

711
00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:07.440
things.

712
00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:12.300
All right, Blaine Coglan asks this.

713
00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:16.320
Given that the climax of a good man goes to war is more revelation

714
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:20.519
than actual cliffhanger, would the almost people have provided a

715
00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:22.559
more shocking midseason finale?

716
00:35:22.619 --> 00:35:27.059
I don't think you can go to a mid-season break with Amy collapsing

717
00:35:27.059 --> 00:35:27.840
into goo.

718
00:35:27.900 --> 00:35:29.099
It's just too traumatic.

719
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:32.099
And that cliffhanger is horrible because then she wakes up in the

720
00:35:32.099 --> 00:35:32.460
tube.

721
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:37.139
I just don't want to have that unresolved for 6 weeks, I think.

722
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:38.280
It would have been more shocking.

723
00:35:38.340 --> 00:35:43.739
I'm a big fan of the cliffhanger that's a revelation or, you know

724
00:35:43.739 --> 00:35:46.800
what are we going to do next rather than just sort of

725
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:48.659
straightforward peril, I think.

726
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:50.519
And so I like that.

727
00:35:50.579 --> 00:35:55.739
You know, the doctor is searching for melody during the mid-season

728
00:35:55.739 --> 00:35:56.280
break.

729
00:35:56.340 --> 00:36:00.179
You know, the doctor goes off with a mission and then we check in

730
00:36:00.179 --> 00:36:03.239
on his mission and it's been months since we've watched the show

731
00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:07.679
and we imagine the doctor on that quest during that time.

732
00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:12.360
See, that's interesting because like, I wanted to see that quest.

733
00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:15.000
That's the things I want to see.

734
00:36:15.059 --> 00:36:18.900
When we have time junks where we're suddenly at a point further

735
00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:21.420
along the track, it all just seems so simple.

736
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:27.900
And certainly with the cybermen, just been relegated to a scene

737
00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:28.739
right?

738
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:31.619
And getting to that point would have been quite difficult, but it

739
00:36:31.619 --> 00:36:34.559
makes it just seem so easy to defeat them, you know, with big

740
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:35.760
explosions and everything like that.

741
00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:39.300
So part of my dislike of that whole plot thing is that I would

742
00:36:39.300 --> 00:36:44.579
have liked to have seen peril and deadly danger for the doctor and

743
00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:50.460
Rory as a team to find out where his companion and his wife are

744
00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:51.000
you know.

745
00:36:51.059 --> 00:36:53.460
And I think that would have paid off for me so much more.

746
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:57.719
But that's obvious, you know, that's not the narrative that modern

747
00:36:57.719 --> 00:37:01.199
television necessarily or Stephen wants to go in, but for me

748
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:04.260
that's one of the changes that I would have liked, you know?

749
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:08.880
And yes, Amy may not have been around, but even if we'd had a two

750
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:12.840
parter and and, you know, something to do with, say, Vastra, Strax

751
00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:16.139
and Jenny and seeing an introduction to have actually met the

752
00:37:16.139 --> 00:37:18.659
doctor and that sort of thing rather than, I mean, it's great that

753
00:37:18.659 --> 00:37:21.659
they've been introduced and their characters like Stephen likes

754
00:37:21.659 --> 00:37:22.800
introducing these characters.

755
00:37:22.860 --> 00:37:25.019
Oh, yes, with potential, and we're going to see them again, and

756
00:37:25.019 --> 00:37:29.940
they might play things of Stephen for a little while, you know, but

757
00:37:29.940 --> 00:37:31.380
that's what I would have liked to have seen.

758
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:32.639
Yeah.

759
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:36.480
That would have been a more traditional arc if we'd seen that kind

760
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:38.099
of quest storyline.

761
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:40.679
And Stephen's not interested in telling that this season, is he?

762
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:41.400
No.

763
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:47.460
And I think, too, that he is happy to just let us infer

764
00:37:47.460 --> 00:37:48.300
backstory.

765
00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:52.739
I mean, there is a there's a kind of, is there an introduction to

766
00:37:52.739 --> 00:37:57.179
her somewhere buried on a DVD box set or something.

767
00:37:57.239 --> 00:37:59.760
Anyway, I think there is some kind of backstory somewhere.

768
00:37:59.820 --> 00:38:02.699
But it's not what he's interested in.

769
00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:06.420
The characters are here, you know, whatever, I think.

770
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:07.920
And I think that's okay.

771
00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:13.500
It's just that we want we want to be able to write our TARDIS

772
00:38:13.500 --> 00:38:19.440
WIKEA entry for them and he deliberately frustrates us at every

773
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:19.860
point.

774
00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:20.400
I think.

775
00:38:20.460 --> 00:38:25.199
It's like the character of Lorna Bucket and a good man goes to war

776
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:25.559
isn't it?

777
00:38:25.619 --> 00:38:26.159
Exactly.

778
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:27.000
Yeah.

779
00:38:27.059 --> 00:38:30.780
She's kind of like she's there and she has backstory with him and

780
00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:33.480
she's actually not a very well developed character and so she's

781
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:36.960
part of a disappointment of that episode because her death is

782
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:39.719
built up to mean something and doesn't actually mean something.

783
00:38:39.780 --> 00:38:43.739
So maybe that's the story of this season where things are built up

784
00:38:43.739 --> 00:38:47.940
to mean something and don't quite hit, Lorna with an ill.

785
00:38:49.500 --> 00:38:53.219
Speaking of which, snog marry avoid.

786
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:59.219
Lorna Bucket, Val, or Joy.

787
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:03.840
Kind of like the idea of just getting them all together for a very

788
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:08.460
exciting stock take after the doors after the shop's all closed.

789
00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:12.300
And Linda would have, you know, Linda would say, oh, I've just got

790
00:39:12.300 --> 00:39:15.119
some little tea cakes and just brings out this huge 2 litre bottle

791
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:16.320
of duty-free gin.

792
00:39:16.380 --> 00:39:21.119
And then enjoy and joy would always clean up after herself always

793
00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:23.820
even if she's made her own mess by scattering her body parts all

794
00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:24.539
over the room.

795
00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:28.079
She would still be kind enough and thoughtful enough.

796
00:39:28.139 --> 00:39:30.300
And then the other one was was...

797
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:31.619
I have no memory of these women.

798
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:32.340
Are you sure?

799
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:34.260
These are the missing episodes.

800
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:37.380
Yeah, no, I think we could have a lot of cheeky fun and there'd be

801
00:39:37.380 --> 00:39:37.980
cybermats.

802
00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:39.119
So you know, there'd be a chase.

803
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:41.219
There'd be fun.

804
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:42.480
It'd be like, you know, like a paper.

805
00:39:42.539 --> 00:39:44.400
No, I think I think we could all have a lot of fun in the room

806
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:44.820
together.

807
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:46.920
Look, their hips would give way.

808
00:39:46.980 --> 00:39:49.679
You couldn't even get near to them to snog them let alone.

809
00:39:50.519 --> 00:39:56.699
What do you think of Steven's treatment of gay characters this

810
00:39:56.699 --> 00:39:58.860
season in terms of having Canton?

811
00:39:58.860 --> 00:40:01.500
and then we've got the thin...

812
00:40:01.500 --> 00:40:02.940
The thin one in the fact?

813
00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:05.340
It's all treated as a big fat boy.

814
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:05.820
Sorry, Peter.

815
00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:07.679
Is it the big, fat, boring gaze?

816
00:40:08.099 --> 00:40:10.500
We're right here, are we?

817
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:12.780
feeling really attacked right now.

818
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:16.199
I don't like how he throws in in us.

819
00:40:16.260 --> 00:40:18.960
Oh, look, we're throwing in a surprise and look how shocking and

820
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:19.739
surprising this is.

821
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:25.199
I really, no, totally, or at least in the way it's structured in

822
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:28.800
the story, using it as the startling revelation, it may not be

823
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:32.699
that greater way to introduce a queer character and he does it, not

824
00:40:32.699 --> 00:40:35.880
just the wants, could forgive it if it was maybe just the ones.

825
00:40:35.940 --> 00:40:36.780
Oh, look, they're gay.

826
00:40:36.840 --> 00:40:42.360
Yeah, and the point is, I actually don't mind the revelation that

827
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:46.920
Canton is gay because we like him and we've seen him work with the

828
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:48.599
doctor and he's funny and stuff.

829
00:40:48.659 --> 00:40:51.119
So we're disposed to like him and then we discover he's gay.

830
00:40:51.179 --> 00:40:54.840
And then we get Richard Nixon pulling the comedy face as well

831
00:40:54.840 --> 00:40:56.579
which I just think is really hilarious.

832
00:40:56.639 --> 00:40:58.260
That actor is superb.

833
00:40:59.340 --> 00:41:00.300
He is superb.

834
00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:05.400
So I kind of like that because it also just kind of shows how

835
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.139
unpleasant Nixon is as well.

836
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:08.579
Like it challenges Nixon.

837
00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:10.079
What actually gets really accurate.

838
00:41:10.139 --> 00:41:10.800
We talked about this.

839
00:41:10.860 --> 00:41:15.059
It's actually really accurate to what we now know Nixon was like

840
00:41:15.059 --> 00:41:16.260
as a human being.

841
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:20.519
And if he wasn't, I don't want to use medical terms, but he was so

842
00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:23.760
dissociated from human involvement and understanding of human

843
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:30.300
relations and emotions that he actually said to, this was before

844
00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:31.199
Watergate.

845
00:41:31.260 --> 00:41:34.559
He, you know, he said to one of the cameramen, did you enjoy a

846
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:36.179
consummation this weekend?

847
00:41:37.500 --> 00:41:39.360
of your relationship.

848
00:41:39.420 --> 00:41:41.760
It was actually used a word even more vulgar than that.

849
00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:42.960
But it was very clinical.

850
00:41:43.019 --> 00:41:47.820
And he really didn't understand the connection between, it was, it

851
00:41:47.820 --> 00:41:50.219
was, it was all very meta for our Mr. Nixon.

852
00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:54.360
Well, he had been driven mad by the constant presence of the

853
00:41:54.360 --> 00:41:56.219
silence. and I kind of like that.

854
00:41:56.280 --> 00:42:02.039
They kind of rareify his paranoia and the constant phone calls at

855
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:03.179
all hours from little girls.

856
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:08.219
And then the other one is the fat one and the thin one and the fat

857
00:42:08.219 --> 00:42:11.519
one gets killed and awesome.

858
00:42:11.579 --> 00:42:12.539
Are we doing Bondfinger?

859
00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:15.900
Diamonds are forever.

860
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:17.460
Yes, that's right.

861
00:42:18.420 --> 00:42:25.019
And I just think, again, he has no idea about the church at all

862
00:42:25.019 --> 00:42:28.920
and, you know, doesn't realise the Anglican church is populated by

863
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:32.400
fat and thin gay people who are married to one another, and it's

864
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:34.619
not absolutely that unusual.

865
00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:36.179
So I don't know.

866
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:37.739
He's not very good at it.

867
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:38.400
He's trying.

868
00:42:38.460 --> 00:42:40.920
There were no queer people in series 5 at all.

869
00:42:40.980 --> 00:42:44.579
So he has at least nodded in our direction.

870
00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:47.159
And we didn't mention Jenny and Vastra as well.

871
00:42:47.219 --> 00:42:47.760
Yeah.

872
00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:53.460
I also like the constant mistaking of the doctor and Craig as a

873
00:42:53.460 --> 00:42:57.840
gay couple because it's done with charm. with warmth and it's sort

874
00:42:57.840 --> 00:42:59.760
of seen through Al's eyes.

875
00:42:59.820 --> 00:43:01.199
It's being something that's really nice.

876
00:43:01.260 --> 00:43:02.039
So I like that.

877
00:43:02.099 --> 00:43:03.900
Yeah, I think that one did work.

878
00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:05.460
He got it right by the end, yeah.

879
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:07.860
Also two, those last 2 episodes.

880
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:09.780
There is that joy coming back.

881
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:13.920
Like there's a weight getting lifted after all of this, which is

882
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:16.980
great at the end of the season, which is again going back to why I

883
00:43:16.980 --> 00:43:19.739
think I really do like that little run at the end.

884
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:21.000
The joy is coming back.

885
00:43:21.059 --> 00:43:22.980
I must have missed Joy coming back.

886
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:26.099
She unexploded in the corner of the toilet.

887
00:43:36.900 --> 00:43:39.539
All right, snog marrying avoid.

888
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:42.960
Captain Avery, Idris, house.

889
00:43:43.019 --> 00:43:45.480
Idris is too bitey, no snogging.

890
00:43:45.539 --> 00:43:46.739
Ah, no.

891
00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:49.019
It's like snogging only someone wins.

892
00:43:49.739 --> 00:43:52.559
Well, obviously, Captain Avery.

893
00:43:52.619 --> 00:43:53.519
Yeah, it's a no.

894
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:55.199
No, he's really hot.

895
00:43:55.260 --> 00:43:59.460
He seems to floss too, which is comfort in those times.

896
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:03.599
He has very good tea for the 17th century or whatever we are, the

897
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:04.199
16th century.

898
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:05.280
Does come with baggage, though.

899
00:44:05.340 --> 00:44:07.260
But he loses it very quickly.

900
00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:10.320
He doesn't seem to be able to hold on to any family members for

901
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:17.519
very, very length of time. making on for Downton Abbey now. his

902
00:44:17.519 --> 00:44:19.199
own personal life, which we're not going to go into.

903
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:20.579
And what about house?

904
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:22.019
Michael Sheen?

905
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:23.579
He's lovely.

906
00:44:23.579 --> 00:44:25.800
And sinister, but...

907
00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:28.320
You can do a Kenneth Williams. you won't be bored.

908
00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:29.760
No, I could marry him.

909
00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:33.960
I don't think he'd last long.

910
00:44:34.019 --> 00:44:36.360
Not in your current form anyway.

911
00:44:36.420 --> 00:44:37.559
No, well, there's that.

912
00:44:37.980 --> 00:44:42.300
Yeah, and avoid interest because of the biting.

913
00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:45.900
I wonder how we'd go if these questions were about the writers.

914
00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:48.360
It's not that.

915
00:44:48.420 --> 00:44:49.920
No we won't go there.

916
00:44:52.980 --> 00:44:54.420
But I do want to ask this question.

917
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:57.780
What do you think of the oldest question hidden in plain sight?

918
00:44:57.900 --> 00:44:59.760
Well, Revelation.

919
00:44:59.820 --> 00:45:01.199
Old since 1963.

920
00:45:01.380 --> 00:45:04.019
Yeah, it's in the opening credits of the 1st episode.

921
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:05.099
It's the 1st question.

922
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:07.920
That's what it means, hidden in plain sight. right there.

923
00:45:07.980 --> 00:45:10.619
Well, fortunately, Chibers has solved it all.

924
00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:11.940
Yeah, he's going to answer it.

925
00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:19.500
Okay, how did you feel about that?

926
00:45:19.559 --> 00:45:20.219
That's a good question.

927
00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:24.300
How did you feel about that as the season finale as the last and

928
00:45:24.300 --> 00:45:26.579
that lovely shot of Matt with the TARDIS behind him?

929
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:28.199
I was so excited.

930
00:45:28.260 --> 00:45:30.539
Like I actually felt an adrenaline rush.

931
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:34.500
It's sort of like we're going back to how it all began where the

932
00:45:34.500 --> 00:45:35.340
doctor's not known.

933
00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:39.780
It's all going to be fresh and new and I just really love the

934
00:45:39.780 --> 00:45:41.340
referencing of that, you know?

935
00:45:41.400 --> 00:45:44.639
If only we knew that Stephen didn't police punches because he

936
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:48.360
keeps trying to reset the series to this and then fails when he

937
00:45:48.360 --> 00:45:49.860
comes up with his next brilliant idea.

938
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:50.820
Yeah, yeah.

939
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:55.440
And like, I think that the acknowledgement that the doctor is

940
00:45:55.440 --> 00:46:00.300
famous is reasonable given that he's actually famous in the real

941
00:46:00.300 --> 00:46:04.500
world and the idea that he's a terrible threat.

942
00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:07.320
Again, you know, there's been 100s of stories where he's blown

943
00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:09.780
people up and all of that kind of thing.

944
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:13.320
And so making that part of the narrative behaving as if that's

945
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:16.920
actually really happened, you know, kind of interrogating the

946
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:17.280
premise.

947
00:46:17.340 --> 00:46:22.019
The entire population of divsham is still experiencing afterglow

948
00:46:22.019 --> 00:46:22.500
aren't they?

949
00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:28.679
That's right And so, you know, like, I think it's unavoidable.

950
00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:33.539
And the classic series, I think, does the doctor is famous every

951
00:46:33.539 --> 00:46:37.139
so often, but doesn't do the sort of he's a deadly threat to

952
00:46:37.139 --> 00:46:38.820
everyone in the entire universe.

953
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:40.980
Although Tom in his last season or two.

954
00:46:41.099 --> 00:46:41.880
Yeah.

955
00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:42.599
Yeah.

956
00:46:42.659 --> 00:46:46.739
I have to take him to a whole other universe where no one knows

957
00:46:46.739 --> 00:46:47.280
who he is.

958
00:46:47.340 --> 00:46:50.940
Yeah, by the time the doctor is literally saving the universe.

959
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:52.079
He's got to have some level of fame.

960
00:46:52.139 --> 00:46:52.679
Yeah.

961
00:46:52.980 --> 00:46:57.360
In a season of many different guest stars, is there anybody that

962
00:46:57.360 --> 00:47:02.820
stands out for you in terms of performance or character?

963
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:07.559
I mean, there's, I mean, there's so many from Hugh Bonneville, to

964
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:12.900
Saran Jones, I think Amarakara, who plays Rita, as a potential

965
00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:14.699
companion, I think, is very good.

966
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:17.940
Oh, I think she's easily the best guest actor in the entire

967
00:47:17.940 --> 00:47:18.300
thing.

968
00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:21.659
I think she's absolutely extraordinary.

969
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:23.940
So good, so incredibly good.

970
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:26.880
She brings that character to absolute life.

971
00:47:26.940 --> 00:47:31.920
And also, I think Dmitri Leonidas, who plays Howie, is another

972
00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:35.639
maybe slightly lesser example, because America is fantastic, but

973
00:47:35.639 --> 00:47:39.719
he also does sterling work with bringing that character to life in

974
00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:40.380
the gold complex.

975
00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:43.320
It's a reason why I really like that episode because it has a

976
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:47.820
number of really well-drawn, interesting characters played well

977
00:47:47.820 --> 00:47:49.920
and you can't say that for every episode this season.

978
00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:55.440
David Williams, as Gibbess, I think, does a really good job of

979
00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:55.980
that character.

980
00:47:56.039 --> 00:48:00.360
Like, I mean, asking somebody to play under all that makeup too

981
00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:02.340
you know, as a guest artist.

982
00:48:02.460 --> 00:48:04.619
I think it's really good that he did that, you know?

983
00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:06.900
I think a lot of people would have turned it down based on that

984
00:48:06.900 --> 00:48:07.260
fact.

985
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:10.380
I don't think David Williams would have turned a role in Doctor

986
00:48:10.380 --> 00:48:10.860
Who down.

987
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:12.659
I think he's a big giant nerd.

988
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:15.119
And then, obviously, Matt Lucas gets to out doing it.

989
00:48:15.179 --> 00:48:15.539
That's right.

990
00:48:15.539 --> 00:48:19.260
I think part of Russell's upcoming master plan will be a Gibbonson

991
00:48:19.260 --> 00:48:20.340
nod all spinoff.

992
00:48:20.519 --> 00:48:21.960
Maybe.

993
00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:27.539
Rita needed to credibly be a possible companion for the episode to

994
00:48:27.539 --> 00:48:27.780
work.

995
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:29.280
The episode is kind of about that.

996
00:48:29.340 --> 00:48:32.039
It's a companion harvester, isn't it?

997
00:48:32.099 --> 00:48:34.139
Yeah, yeah, she's so good.

998
00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:35.340
Holy crap.

999
00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:37.019
She's unbelievably great.

1000
00:48:37.079 --> 00:48:39.780
Some of us were disappointed he didn't take them in a tour.

1001
00:48:40.019 --> 00:48:41.400
Yes.

1002
00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:44.880
Some of us have been disappointed with that since the time

1003
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:45.360
monster.

1004
00:48:46.980 --> 00:48:49.199
Or what, you, me?

1005
00:48:50.699 --> 00:48:54.119
I didn't get to do the voice in that one neither.

1006
00:48:54.179 --> 00:48:56.760
My new companion, Dave Prowse.

1007
00:48:56.820 --> 00:48:59.880
So I don't know where they're using my voice for Darth Vader.

1008
00:49:08.940 --> 00:49:12.480
All right, we've got a couple of, um, award nominations.

1009
00:49:12.539 --> 00:49:14.099
And so we always do.

1010
00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:18.360
Do we have any Jenny Laird Award nominations this year?

1011
00:49:19.619 --> 00:49:25.619
Yeah, mine goes to Stephen Moffatt, and it is for thinking that

1012
00:49:25.619 --> 00:49:28.199
the pregnancy thing would work in Doctor Who.

1013
00:49:28.980 --> 00:49:31.440
Yeah, we're all thinking the same thing.

1014
00:49:31.500 --> 00:49:32.639
That's the major.

1015
00:49:32.699 --> 00:49:33.840
That's the summit.

1016
00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:36.000
That's the thing everyone's looking at thing.

1017
00:49:36.059 --> 00:49:37.199
It's frosty up there, isn't it?

1018
00:49:37.260 --> 00:49:38.340
Don't want to go up there, no.

1019
00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:40.440
It's littered and scattered with things you don't want to

1020
00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:40.980
encounter.

1021
00:49:41.039 --> 00:49:42.599
Yeah, no, I agree.

1022
00:49:42.659 --> 00:49:45.900
And then there's some poor creative choices of just the unevenness

1023
00:49:45.900 --> 00:49:46.559
of a script.

1024
00:49:46.619 --> 00:49:49.739
I think the reason, though, that stories like Knight Terrors and

1025
00:49:49.739 --> 00:49:52.559
one of the other ones we didn't like so much just keeps coming

1026
00:49:52.559 --> 00:49:53.639
back to me as an Nigeria.

1027
00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:56.099
Cursing the congees.

1028
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:56.400
Yeah.

1029
00:49:56.460 --> 00:49:59.280
It's simply that in a traditional season.

1030
00:49:59.340 --> 00:50:02.159
So if you put this in season 15, they'd probably stood out.

1031
00:50:02.219 --> 00:50:07.079
It's just that we're getting such highs and lows and that the

1032
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:10.019
expectations and production values and all the rest of it and the

1033
00:50:10.019 --> 00:50:11.579
rapidity and wit in the scripts.

1034
00:50:11.639 --> 00:50:15.599
There's a lot more density dramatically now.

1035
00:50:15.659 --> 00:50:18.719
And I think you've hit the nail on the head, the expectation.

1036
00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:22.139
We had series 4, which really incredible.

1037
00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:25.619
And then we had series five, which, again, and so you just keep

1038
00:50:25.619 --> 00:50:29.820
expecting that every year you're going to hit the mark and that

1039
00:50:29.820 --> 00:50:31.380
doesn't happen. that's not reality.

1040
00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:35.099
You just can't keep that sustainability at that level all the

1041
00:50:35.099 --> 00:50:35.460
time.

1042
00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:39.000
And if we don't meet those expectations, then you kind of are down

1043
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:39.480
on something.

1044
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:42.179
Like I've said for quite a long time that this is probably my

1045
00:50:42.179 --> 00:50:45.900
least light Stephen Moffat series. agree.

1046
00:50:45.960 --> 00:50:47.340
I don't know whether that's going to be the case.

1047
00:50:47.400 --> 00:50:52.440
I see so many more positives, but there are certain minefields to

1048
00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:53.639
get through in season.

1049
00:50:53.699 --> 00:50:57.960
And as we said earlier, there are some really great bits as well.

1050
00:50:58.019 --> 00:51:02.219
Like doctor's wife, girl who waited, the god complex, but the good

1051
00:51:02.219 --> 00:51:04.139
bits don't come where you expect that they will.

1052
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:05.039
Yes.

1053
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:07.380
Yeah, we're not meeting those expectations.

1054
00:51:07.619 --> 00:51:09.960
Any other nominations?

1055
00:51:10.019 --> 00:51:14.880
I would nominate the whole of the gangers, just because already

1056
00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:18.840
it's quite a problematic bland script, not really dealing well

1057
00:51:18.840 --> 00:51:21.719
with the issues which it's trying to deal with, and then overlaid

1058
00:51:21.719 --> 00:51:22.079
on that.

1059
00:51:22.139 --> 00:51:25.079
I think the direction misses, and then on top of that, they drain

1060
00:51:25.079 --> 00:51:27.000
the colour out of it also, it's difficult to watch.

1061
00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:32.280
So it's just a whole big mess of bad Jenny Ladd choices.

1062
00:51:32.340 --> 00:51:36.480
In fact, maybe Jenny Laird award can go to the terrible lighting

1063
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:41.519
in the 1st half of the series. from Impossible Astronaut all the

1064
00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:44.340
way through to the end of the Kangers 2 parter.

1065
00:51:44.400 --> 00:51:46.920
It's turned the goddamn lights on someone.

1066
00:51:46.980 --> 00:51:51.719
It might actually be post because I'm thinking back to film at the

1067
00:51:51.719 --> 00:51:52.260
time too.

1068
00:51:52.260 --> 00:51:55.619
When I did animation, which is now 20 years ago, the folk that

1069
00:51:55.619 --> 00:51:59.639
ended up doing the best out of that and are still getting paid the

1070
00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:03.360
highest are the folk that do the digital grading, the compositors

1071
00:52:03.360 --> 00:52:04.500
at the end of it.

1072
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:07.260
And the fashion at the time, you think about films around this

1073
00:52:07.260 --> 00:52:10.199
time, 10, 11 years ago, everything was freaking drained.

1074
00:52:10.199 --> 00:52:10.800
Yeah.

1075
00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:13.860
And almost sepia. was so fashionable and chic.

1076
00:52:13.980 --> 00:52:16.199
And it's annoying.

1077
00:52:16.260 --> 00:52:16.679
I agree.

1078
00:52:16.739 --> 00:52:18.000
It's annoying.

1079
00:52:18.059 --> 00:52:20.460
But it's interesting you're talking about the gangers episodes

1080
00:52:20.460 --> 00:52:25.199
which I haven't really commented on and now feel the need to.

1081
00:52:25.260 --> 00:52:27.480
I really dislike Jen as a character.

1082
00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:32.400
And I really, I really dislike the CGI when she becomes a monster

1083
00:52:32.460 --> 00:52:33.360
builds for me.

1084
00:52:33.420 --> 00:52:37.320
But, Nathan, you did talk about Cleave's journey, and it's

1085
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:40.980
something that has made me sort of reevaluate that aspect of the

1086
00:52:40.980 --> 00:52:41.280
story.

1087
00:52:41.340 --> 00:52:45.059
There is a glimmer in there because in my notes, looking back on

1088
00:52:45.059 --> 00:52:48.599
it, it was something that I did comment about, like too, not as

1089
00:52:48.599 --> 00:52:51.360
articulated as what you did in the episode, but it's something

1090
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:54.420
that I did notice there was more to that, where I just sort of

1091
00:52:54.420 --> 00:52:57.360
tarnished the whole thing with that one horrible brush.

1092
00:52:57.420 --> 00:52:57.960
Yeah.

1093
00:52:57.960 --> 00:53:04.199
But nothing can save those 2 episodes for me, the whole baby goo

1094
00:53:04.199 --> 00:53:10.139
thing, the whole melts into river and the appalling performance

1095
00:53:10.139 --> 00:53:12.599
sequence with Matt Smith in that episode.

1096
00:53:12.659 --> 00:53:16.380
Like those things are just front and century in my mind.

1097
00:53:16.380 --> 00:53:19.440
But I've got to take myself out of that because there is so much

1098
00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:20.880
to really like in this season.

1099
00:53:21.059 --> 00:53:24.360
That said, though, you can always find things that you'll enjoy

1100
00:53:24.360 --> 00:53:25.920
even in the bits that you don't.

1101
00:53:25.980 --> 00:53:30.719
So when Matt comes out of the TARDIS to do that prolonged dying

1102
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:34.800
scene, which is asking far too much of any actor, he is dressed as

1103
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:35.940
Marlena Dietrich.

1104
00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:38.579
And of course, if you're going to come out of Latardis and do your

1105
00:53:38.579 --> 00:53:42.000
big turn in pre-war Germany, that's what you're going to look

1106
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:42.239
like.

1107
00:53:42.300 --> 00:53:44.760
He's not doing Fred Astaire.

1108
00:53:44.820 --> 00:53:46.679
Von Sternberg's Blue Angel.

1109
00:53:46.739 --> 00:53:47.219
You're right.

1110
00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:48.360
He is okay.

1111
00:53:48.360 --> 00:53:51.300
He's the boys in the back room, they'll have.

1112
00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:53.639
You'd appreciate that, Richard.

1113
00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:56.699
I've got a trick hip.

1114
00:53:56.760 --> 00:53:57.360
Yes.

1115
00:53:57.420 --> 00:53:58.619
Yeah.

1116
00:53:59.039 --> 00:54:02.519
There's a lot that needs rescuing in this season.

1117
00:54:02.579 --> 00:54:03.480
Ooh.

1118
00:54:03.539 --> 00:54:06.719
But on the flip side is the Bonnie Langford.

1119
00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:09.360
Startling discovery, is there?

1120
00:54:09.420 --> 00:54:10.679
Nick Horan.

1121
00:54:10.739 --> 00:54:12.719
Sorry, I've stolen everyone else's.

1122
00:54:12.900 --> 00:54:14.940
I think absolutely.

1123
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:21.239
And you remember my reaction to the leisure hive, which is a story

1124
00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:28.320
that is experimental visually and just so much better and more

1125
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:29.760
interesting than what's come before.

1126
00:54:29.820 --> 00:54:32.760
I think Nick Curran does that with a god complex.

1127
00:54:33.239 --> 00:54:36.059
Yes, I think that's a really good nomination.

1128
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:43.559
Mine is for Karen Gillan's hair. because she has wonderful hair

1129
00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:49.079
throughout this entire season and I think that then affects the

1130
00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:51.300
subtlety in her performance as well.

1131
00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:52.559
I think it just adds to that.

1132
00:54:52.739 --> 00:54:54.539
It's like a hair.

1133
00:54:54.599 --> 00:54:56.400
Like I mean, it's all about the hair for me.

1134
00:54:56.460 --> 00:54:58.199
Like if you talk about Sarah Jane Smith.

1135
00:54:58.260 --> 00:55:02.519
I think Sarah Jane's hair in season 13 is the perfect length

1136
00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:02.760
right?

1137
00:55:02.820 --> 00:55:07.980
And so Sarah goes through different phases from short, medium long

1138
00:55:07.980 --> 00:55:10.800
and extra long right at the end, but she has this golden patch.

1139
00:55:10.920 --> 00:55:13.619
And so for me, with Karen's hair, it's sort of like, this is the

1140
00:55:13.619 --> 00:55:15.840
revelation about how good she is.

1141
00:55:15.900 --> 00:55:17.579
You also like Dodo's hair.

1142
00:55:18.840 --> 00:55:20.760
Just stop it.

1143
00:55:20.820 --> 00:55:22.380
Just stop it.

1144
00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:25.260
This is why I've been pointing to it.

1145
00:55:25.260 --> 00:55:26.340
The entire year.

1146
00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:29.699
It has to be said that Karen does have magical hair because even

1147
00:55:29.699 --> 00:55:33.539
when she's aged 36 years, It still has that beautiful organ tune

1148
00:55:33.539 --> 00:55:33.900
to it.

1149
00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:37.739
Well, they doll the red down, which as we know happens in real

1150
00:55:37.739 --> 00:55:39.420
life for most of us as well.

1151
00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:40.260
Yes.

1152
00:55:40.260 --> 00:55:43.559
I was a lovely, almost virtual titian.

1153
00:55:43.619 --> 00:55:46.079
I was never that light, but yeah, no, yeah.

1154
00:55:46.139 --> 00:55:50.760
Life, like cinematography tends to drain the colour out of us the

1155
00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:51.900
longer the season we go.

1156
00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:53.340
Like the gangers.

1157
00:55:53.460 --> 00:55:54.119
The gangers.

1158
00:55:54.179 --> 00:55:54.900
Yes.

1159
00:55:55.139 --> 00:55:58.679
It's a good point if we just come back to that, because actors do

1160
00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:02.699
give a stronger or more cohesive performance if they feel

1161
00:56:02.699 --> 00:56:07.440
confident in the role, and as P.G. Woodhouse, and Bo Brum will

1162
00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:10.440
both say, if you put a good suit on them, put a good boiler on

1163
00:56:10.440 --> 00:56:12.179
them, you're going to get a better show.

1164
00:56:12.239 --> 00:56:13.860
Clothes maketh man.

1165
00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:15.480
Yeah, I think there might be something too that.

1166
00:56:15.539 --> 00:56:18.119
So finally, looking to the future.

1167
00:56:18.179 --> 00:56:23.159
I always ask, where does series 7A slash 7B?

1168
00:56:23.219 --> 00:56:27.539
Sit with you before we embark on that journey.

1169
00:56:27.960 --> 00:56:32.219
Um, I think there's some good stuff in it in both halves.

1170
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:36.960
I don't like, we've talked about this before, possibly.

1171
00:56:37.019 --> 00:56:42.539
I don't like the way that Amy and Rory leave at all, but I think

1172
00:56:42.539 --> 00:56:43.739
they're sort of fun to be had.

1173
00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:47.340
I actually miss the complexity a bit.

1174
00:56:47.400 --> 00:56:51.960
But it's nice to try new things and, you know, I think there are

1175
00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:54.239
some reasonably entertaining things in there.

1176
00:56:54.300 --> 00:56:56.579
So I'm kind of looking forward to it.

1177
00:56:56.639 --> 00:56:58.019
Peter?

1178
00:56:58.139 --> 00:57:02.639
I'm definitely looking forward to series 7 A because I think it

1179
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:06.179
regains some of the fun that's been a bit diminished this season.

1180
00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:09.420
And I think it's a series of very strongest. episodes.

1181
00:57:09.480 --> 00:57:12.179
I haven't seen them in a long time, so I may revise this opinion

1182
00:57:12.179 --> 00:57:14.159
but I think it's a series of strong episodes.

1183
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:16.980
And I wouldn't have thought that I'd said that about a mini-season

1184
00:57:16.980 --> 00:57:18.360
with 2 chipmil episodes, but there we go.

1185
00:57:18.420 --> 00:57:19.860
Richard.

1186
00:57:19.920 --> 00:57:23.460
And I'm really looking forward to seeing what comes next because I

1187
00:57:23.460 --> 00:57:25.500
haven't watched them since they 1st went out.

1188
00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:28.440
My memory is very dim.

1189
00:57:28.500 --> 00:57:32.219
I'm glad to hear they're not amongst the lost episodes and so we

1190
00:57:32.219 --> 00:57:34.260
will be able to see them and review them next year.

1191
00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:36.900
Really no memory at all.

1192
00:57:37.739 --> 00:57:45.420
Is there a giant squid in it and some and 7 sexy rituals and a

1193
00:57:45.420 --> 00:57:47.280
methane extractor, I believe?

1194
00:57:47.579 --> 00:57:49.320
Conflating that.

1195
00:57:49.380 --> 00:57:50.579
Yeah, no, I have no memory.

1196
00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:51.780
And I like doing these.

1197
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:53.639
I don't know if you've been doing them the same way.

1198
00:57:53.699 --> 00:57:58.139
I know Nathan hasn't, but not watching them until we're going to

1199
00:57:58.139 --> 00:58:01.800
do the stories and then you're, oh, ah, and that's when, like Todd

1200
00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:05.039
my opinions have been really revised to the point that it's just a

1201
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:05.460
flip.

1202
00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:06.780
It's a pancake flip.

1203
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:07.739
Oh, I hated her.

1204
00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:08.820
I don't quite like her now.

1205
00:58:09.480 --> 00:58:14.039
Yeah, for me, I'm very much like you, Peter.

1206
00:58:14.099 --> 00:58:17.159
I really think that that set of 5 episodes at the beginning of

1207
00:58:17.159 --> 00:58:21.780
next season is quite strong consistently, and I'm with Nathan, the

1208
00:58:21.780 --> 00:58:24.420
writing out of Amy and Rory is problematic.

1209
00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:30.420
In terms of Clara, like I really think that I really love Jenna

1210
00:58:30.420 --> 00:58:33.300
Coleman in the 1st episode and in the Christmas, that those

1211
00:58:33.300 --> 00:58:35.880
versions of golf Clara after that.

1212
00:58:35.940 --> 00:58:39.599
Well, I still think she's a great actress, but am I going to find

1213
00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:42.900
that I find the 2nd half of the season much more forgettable

1214
00:58:42.900 --> 00:58:46.679
although I will say this, that there is one episode in there which

1215
00:58:46.679 --> 00:58:50.579
I absolutely detested beyond all imagining at the time.

1216
00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:52.860
Cold War hide.

1217
00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:54.239
That's your toy maker.

1218
00:58:54.300 --> 00:58:57.539
It's not Journey to the Senator Tatars, which I still...

1219
00:58:57.539 --> 00:58:58.260
Rings of Ackerton.

1220
00:58:58.320 --> 00:59:00.539
Yeah, which are absolutely detested at the time.

1221
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:01.619
Yeah, I did too.

1222
00:59:01.679 --> 00:59:03.539
I'm looking forward to seeing what I think about.

1223
00:59:03.539 --> 00:59:04.500
But I have seen it since.

1224
00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:07.679
And I reversed my opinion.

1225
00:59:32.219 --> 00:59:35.699
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.

1226
00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:40.860
We'll be back at Christmas to get our Narnia on in the doctor, the

1227
00:59:40.860 --> 00:59:42.239
widow, and the wardrobe.

1228
00:59:42.360 --> 00:59:46.619
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1229
00:59:46.619 --> 00:59:49.440
and you can keep up with us at Flight 3 Entirety on Facebook at

1230
00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:54.360
FTE podcast on Twitter and on our website, flightthroughentirety

1231
00:59:52.500 --> 00:59:57.659
com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger

1232
00:59:57.659 --> 01:00:01.860
Jody Interterterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek

1233
01:00:01.860 --> 01:00:02.340
project.

1234
01:00:02.460 --> 01:00:06.780
Until next time, sweetheart, I think Mummy might need another

1235
01:00:06.780 --> 01:00:07.320
drink.

1236
01:00:07.380 --> 01:00:10.079
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1237
01:00:10.139 --> 01:00:11.099
Good night.

1238
01:00:11.159 --> 01:00:12.179
See you soon.

1239
01:00:12.239 --> 01:00:13.139
Chin Chin.

1240
01:00:16.320 --> 01:00:20.099
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd Beelby, Nathan

1241
01:00:20.099 --> 01:00:22.139
Bottomley, Peter Griffithson, Richard Stone.

1242
01:00:22.199 --> 01:00:24.360
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1243
01:00:24.420 --> 01:00:28.079
This episode, Playthings of Stephen, was recorded on the 28th of

1244
01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:31.380
November 2021 and released on the 19th of December.

1245
01:00:32.699 --> 01:00:36.900
That's the end of our Series 6 coverage, and so we'd like to thank

1246
01:00:36.900 --> 01:00:39.659
everyone who's joined us on the couch over the last few weeks.

1247
01:00:39.780 --> 01:00:44.219
Maxwell Coviello, Stephen and Dan from New To Who podcast, Simon

1248
01:00:44.219 --> 01:00:48.659
Moore, Adam Richard, Kevin Bernard, Corey McMahon, Syhart, Conrad

1249
01:00:48.659 --> 01:00:51.480
Westmus, Joe Ford and Jack Shanahan.

1250
01:00:54.539 --> 01:00:56.820
What do you think of the child actors this season?

1251
01:00:56.880 --> 01:00:58.860
Besides Toby Avery?

1252
01:00:58.920 --> 01:01:02.400
Oscarloid is Toby Avery, who I think is a bit older?

1253
01:01:02.460 --> 01:01:07.380
And if I was to include Lily Arnell from the Christmas special at

1254
01:01:07.380 --> 01:01:09.000
the end of the season, who I actually think is quite good.

1255
01:01:09.059 --> 01:01:12.900
What do you think of the other assorted children?

1256
01:01:13.860 --> 01:01:16.139
I thought George was sweet.

1257
01:01:16.199 --> 01:01:17.579
I really like George.

1258
01:01:17.639 --> 01:01:20.639
Yeah, I taught George sweet as well.

1259
01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:23.039
Damn him.

1260
01:01:23.099 --> 01:01:24.239
He's just a kid.

1261
01:01:24.300 --> 01:01:26.519
He's just a little boy.

1262
01:01:26.579 --> 01:01:28.260
Don't blink, George.

1263
01:01:28.320 --> 01:01:33.900
No, but I mean, clearly, clearly... that is... grab that pillow

1264
01:01:33.900 --> 01:01:34.980
and smother him, Todd.

1265
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:36.420
These are awful.

1266
01:01:36.539 --> 01:01:37.199
I hate it.

1267
01:01:37.320 --> 01:01:39.059
He and Cyril can team up.

1268
01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:41.039
Some bloody Cyril Arnold.

1269
01:01:43.139 --> 01:01:47.940
I think I've been triggered. triggered.

1270
01:01:48.239 --> 01:01:50.880
We forget to the list here at home.

1271
01:01:50.940 --> 01:01:53.099
I hate the bit.

1272
01:01:53.099 --> 01:01:54.659
They are terrible children.

1273
01:01:54.659 --> 01:01:57.539
For the listener at home, we have to remember what our podcasters

1274
01:01:57.539 --> 01:01:58.260
do for a living.

1275
01:01:58.380 --> 01:02:03.059
It's so surprising that Toby delivered such a good performance

1276
01:02:03.059 --> 01:02:04.800
because he'd been kicked in the ed buyer.

1277
01:02:05.219 --> 01:02:10.980
I'm still laughing about that because I said it and your laughter

1278
01:02:10.980 --> 01:02:12.780
at that point. episode.

1279
01:02:12.840 --> 01:02:14.699
I just kept going back.

1280
01:02:14.699 --> 01:02:16.380
Oh, yeah, scintillating things.

1281
01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:19.019
Like, you know, dragged through a hedge and kicked.

1282
01:02:20.639 --> 01:02:25.019
Because when you say it, you don't realise how funny it is.

1283
01:02:27.300 --> 01:02:30.119
So you deliver it completely straight.

1284
01:02:30.179 --> 01:02:32.219
It's really great.

1285
01:02:32.280 --> 01:02:35.400
It's one of my favourite moments from this season to fly through

1286
01:02:35.400 --> 01:02:35.940
entirety.

1287
01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:37.380
I think Stephen should have come up with that.

1288
01:02:37.380 --> 01:02:40.019
I think that child actors could have been kicking their hair by

1289
01:02:40.019 --> 01:02:40.980
our horse this season.

1290
01:02:41.039 --> 01:02:41.699
Sorry.

1291
01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:43.980
Blackwood's very good.

1292
01:02:44.099 --> 01:02:44.760
She is always.

1293
01:02:44.820 --> 01:02:47.760
In fact, the 3 kids in the flashbacks are great.

1294
01:02:47.820 --> 01:02:48.900
How can I just say?

1295
01:02:48.900 --> 01:02:49.800
Except for Rory, maybe.

1296
01:02:49.860 --> 01:02:52.860
No, that little Rory is so confusing.

1297
01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:55.559
He's so convincing is a little gory.

1298
01:02:55.619 --> 01:02:57.420
He's too glormless.

1299
01:02:57.480 --> 01:03:00.000
It just undermines Rory yet again.

1300
01:03:00.059 --> 01:03:01.380
That's what I don't like about it.

1301
01:03:01.440 --> 01:03:03.539
I just think he's such a little dweeby thing.

1302
01:03:03.599 --> 01:03:06.599
It's sort of like, oh, please, you're going to have to cuddle

1303
01:03:06.599 --> 01:03:06.840
this.

1304
01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:09.960
Oh, well look.

1305
01:03:10.079 --> 01:03:12.119
Child actors, they're not getting...

1306
01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:16.800
Exactly. damaged best psyche for their entire adult lives.

1307
01:03:16.860 --> 01:03:17.219
Who knows?

1308
01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:18.300
Yeah that's right.

1309
01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:18.900
Perhaps.

1310
01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:22.139
All right, Baby Rory's robbed a convenience store now.

1311
01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:25.920
So he's got convention appearances.

1312
01:03:25.980 --> 01:03:26.940
No I made that up.

1313
01:03:27.059 --> 01:03:28.440
Allegedly.

1314
01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:31.619
Alright.

1315
01:03:31.679 --> 01:03:33.300
Keeping all this.

1316
01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:33.840
Yeah.

1317
01:03:33.840 --> 01:03:35.880
These are stayers.

1318
01:03:36.480 --> 01:03:37.139
Marry this guy.

1319
01:03:37.199 --> 01:03:38.039
This is the show.

1320
01:03:38.099 --> 01:03:39.300
This is it.

1321
01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:40.559
You're doomed, all of you.

1322
01:03:40.619 --> 01:03:44.280
All right, we've got a couple of award nominations.

1323
01:03:44.340 --> 01:03:45.840
And so we always do.

1324
01:03:45.900 --> 01:03:48.719
Do we have any Jenny Laird Award nominations?