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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:16:51

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Hello, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that doesn't want to set the world on fire.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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And I'm your new assistant.

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Oh, ladies and gentlemen.

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I feel the need to explain.

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Richard is having to take a step back from podcast duty slightly.

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So he will be alternating the meantime with Sir Todd Bealby, who joins us in the 3rd slot on the sofa.

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And what better time to give him a baptism of fire, because Todd, terror of the autons is your story.

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Oh, wow.

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I've never experienced that before from this side of things.

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Oh, thank you, Brandon.

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I've heard that before.

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Thank you, Nathan. and thank you, Richard.

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And before I begin, obviously I want to say the more things change, the more they stay the same.

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So, you know, although things will be different, hopefully will be, you know, I can't hope to emulate Richard, but I will be different and, you know, change is a good thing.

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Hey, Richard would never have said that.

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No, no, you're already a business.

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Oh, dear.

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Help me, dear listener. help me now All right, so tear of the Ultrons is, yes, baptism of fire straight into it.

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Our new producer.

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Well, no, I'm not so new producer, but Barry Lex is now in control of the series, working with Sheron sticks on his 1st full series from the get go.

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And with that, of course, comes a number of changes.

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He's decided that we're going to be going for 4 episodes and 6 episode stories.

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The 7 episodes are out the window.

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And you know, I think this is a change, certainly for the good.

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You've got more 1st nights, you know, in this season with, you know, with an extra story, and script wise, they're a bit easier to write in the 7 episode stories, and obviously, the viewers don't have to be engaged over 70 weeks.

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I think we found last time, didn't we, that the 7 partters?

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Well, I certainly found them increasingly tiresome, each one slightly worse than the previous one.

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And we did talk a little bit about the advantages of 7 partners.

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And look, you know, if the 7 partners were boring, you know, per twee, 6 partners from here on in are going to certainly, you know, be pretty much equally boring.

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I think on the whole.

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But it is a much better pattern, you know, and it is precisely that episode one just tends to be better than the other episodes.

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And it's only marginally more expensive than what they were doing before.

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Yeah, and I think this year is when we start to get the pattern, the Doctor Who would bed down in for the next 20 years of its run, you know, the typical 4 to 6 part story arc and where we have 6 parts, they're usually a 4 parter with a 2 parter at the end or vice versa.

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So, yeah, this season sort of is where Doctor Who starts being the Doctor Who we know from the colour era.

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But I'll be, I'll be having a bit more to say about that when we get to, um, clause of axos.

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I agree with you on that.

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I think the legacy of Doctor Who is actually cemented in this season.

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I think Barry Letts and Terrence Styx have a lot to be praised for.

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And I think what they do in this entire season ensures the longevity of the show over the next 5 years.

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I think if we had just had a repeat of season 7, the show would have ended here in season 8 and that would have ended, it would have been a quite little show.

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So, I mean, this is a, this is a soft reboot and I think I called it a reboot last time and it really makes quite a lot of changes from last year.

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So we had virtually no TARDIS last year. you know, the Tardis exterior only appeared in the corner of the laboratory in spearhead from space.

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The TARDIS exterior is back, unit wearing sort of sensible uniforms instead of those stupid jumpsuit things or the horrific yellow turtlenecks that they were wearing.

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You've got basically 6 regular cast and something that we've really never had before at all.

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Yeah, it is the biggest wreck of a cast opportunity's ever had.

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Very next is quite clever here.

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I mean, introducing those standard uniform. is a very clever ploy.

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I mean, what is the biggest comedy show on television at the moment?

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Oh, Richard would know.

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Richard would know.

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Dad's army.

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You know?

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So it's familiar.

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He's trying to aim it for a family audience.

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We're getting a team together that you can then choose which one of that team you like more or less.

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And of course, going into that means we've got a regular captain in terms of Captain Yates.

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You know, that's a 1st change to have that 2nd in command then.

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They've already started those changes back in season 7 with Benton coming back in, you know, in the last 2 stories. whether that be by chance or by design.

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But here, by putting a regular captain in, you've now got, you know, 3 people to choose from in, you know, turn to the guys.

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But, I do have to say, Yates is by far my least favourite of the 3 regular... is terrible.

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Well, but I'll say this.

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I think his character art compared to the other 2 is actually the one that has the biggest change in his whole...

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Spoilers, but we're getting...

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Now, the thing is, and I'm glad I'm glad you both said that because it is a minor thing in Doctor Who fandom, but I've had the discussion many times before with people, who do you prefer?

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Captain Yates and Sergeant Benton.

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And nobody I've met has said, oh, I both like the Minkle or dislike Minkle.

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Someone always prefers one or the other.

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I actually prefer Captain Yates to Sergeant Benton.

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But that's just me.

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You guys obviously prefer Sergeant Benton to Captain Yates.

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And with all the things that Doctor Who fans out of you about, and there's a lot of them.

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This one seems to be the most good natured.

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You never sort of see flame walls online about, you know, Benton Gate or standards in Yates journalism.

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Well, I don't think anyone likes either of them very much.

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So maybe that's not enough to hear.

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But I do have to be just enraged on the beat and made Richard Franklin chuckle.

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But I don't have to say this.

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The way in which Richard Franklin sautés have to do his sautés.

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No, no, no, that's cooking.

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Sachet is up to do his 1st salute.

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I mean, honestly, unit were ahead of their time.

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There's a don't ask don't tell policy back in 1970.

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I mean, how anybody could ever think that this man was going to be a love interest for Joe Grant.

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I'll never know They give up on that after this story, don't they?

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They really do.

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And I have to say, I think that Richard Franklin looks really uncomfortable in many of the early scenes.

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They're really trying to put Yates into the scenes and he's looking down and he just, he just seems to be ill at ease in the role.

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In the later episodes of this story.

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He gets better and I think he, you know, been a few weeks into filming, he relaxes and you can see that difference.

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But in the 1st couple of episodes, he's not great.

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He's up and down that sort of thing.

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But they do try and work the character into the backstory of the show.

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It's really interesting The doctor says, you know, to Mike, you know, that he helped clean up the author.

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You know, and that's actually quite clever of, I think, of Terrence Dix to work this sort of stuff, then, and he does it quite often.

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It's history that's only like a year old.

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But, you know, the audience aren't going to know that he wasn't in there because there's no repeats, there's no DVDs, and they're just going to say, well, he's part of the team and they're going to accept him much easier and quicker.

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But constantly, because I'm watching a bit ahead in the pertwe era.

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They're referencing things like a few stories previous, that the audience should know, and you as an audience member sort of feel like, oh, I know that, and I remember that, and I feel, you know, you're getting caught up in it and feeling part of the...

101
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Yeah, because even a viewer who missed that earlier Auton story.

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What that scene tells them is that there has been a previous invasion.

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It doesn't say, you need to know about the previous invasion to understand this story.

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It's the best kind of continuity reference in that.

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Add something for the viewer who knows.

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But it doesn't detract anything for the viewer who doesn't understand.

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And that's one of the things with this story, Brendan, is that I really see them.

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I mean there's a complete change in style.

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It's I find it, it's much more comic book telling.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And it happens again and again.

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And it's actually it's actually very clever.

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Like you can see when Joe has to go to the plastics factory to investigate.

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She having a conversation with the brigadier about going somewhere, then you see her there, then you see the consequence, then she's back.

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Later on, in the story, they do the same thing with the daffodil.

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You find the daffodil, you see them distributed, you hear about the deaths.

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It's boom, boom, boom. picture it now as a sequence.

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And, you know, for the casual viewer who's coming in week after week, it's actually quite clever in terms of keeping the story moving and that sort of thing.

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It's this comic book style that keeps the pace going.

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I see it in the 4 episodes, George.

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You can actually sit down, dearly.

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I'm finding that you can watch, you know, 2 episodes of a per twee, 4 episode story, like, you know, with a, you know, 5 minute break in between, 6 episodes.

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I'm, you know, again, it's trip, but you need to have like a dinner break, you know, because they're, you know, they're a bit slower with the characters and that sort of thing.

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But I, you know, this is the nature of television in 1917 and what they're delivering.

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And I think those people that often watch these stories in one hit and then complain about repetitiveness and all that sort of thing.

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And if you approach it in that way, you're not going to enjoy it.

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I mean, one of the things, again, episode 3 of Brigadier does his big list of where we're up to with, you know, the master and the audience and what's going on.

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But, you know, if you hadn't watched, you know, it's been a week since you watched the show and you haven't had it on the VCR to watch 500 times and, you know, take that information in.

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Exactly, and especially seeing it from the beginning of the season, you could very easily have missed the 1st episode and then caught for the 2nd episode.

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Something I find very interesting about this as well is we now have our 5th returning Doctor Who monster in the form of the autons.

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Really?

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Fifth.

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Daleks?

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Cybermen?

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Ice Warriors?

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Yes.

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Okay. that's it.

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Now, previously, when we've had, say when the cybermen returned for their 2nd story, their 2nd story is essentially a remake of their 1st story.

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And certainly the Dalek story started to become very derivative of one another.

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The yeti stories as we kind of explore the yeti kind of a one trick thing and it's more about the great intelligence.

141
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But terrible.

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Thank you, Nathan.

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But here, the autons...

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Robert Holmes does come up with a completely new plot and idea for them because he's introduced this new character element, of course, of the master.

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How are we going this far without even mentioning the master?

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We've barely mentioned John.

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So this is, again, Holmes gets to do, uh, in the future, homes will get to, like, introduce new companions several times.

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He does it quite a lot.

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Well, I think that Terrence Sticks and RX realise how good he is at doing that.

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He does it with Sarah Jane.

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The following year, it's the same team, but lets his scripting for the new doctor and companion.

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Holmes introduces, always a script editor for Leila, and then they turn to him for a moment.

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There's a reason, you know, why he's there, you know, Letts and Dicks can see what he can do.

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And so he introduces, he introduces the master and he starts the story pretty much with what we've been missing for ages, which is the dematerialisation sound and the time lord.

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And some, and you know, we're not in a research centre.

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We've, you know, in a really gruesome circus, isn't it?

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Just a most unappealing, unhappy circus you've ever seen.

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Oh, this poor stock footage lion.

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Oh, awful.

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It is so awful.

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I'm so glad that we don't have those kinds of circuses anymore.

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It just looked terribly great.

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But all of these sort of fun things that have been missing from the previous year.

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The only real story with any sort of element set in the real world was Holmes's story last year with the Seelies and their house, a plastic factory and all of that sort of thing, everything else was sort of scientific installations and stuff.

165
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So that's all really fun, and then he, it recreates the time lords.

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So we haven't seen a time lord since the war games, and now we see our 1st time, lord.

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And the one who just appears hovering in mid-air, dressed as Patrick McNee and the Avengers.

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Well, there's a Magrit painting since Richard's not here.

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I'll...

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Yes, too, isn't it?

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Just like the opening few minutes of terror of the autons.

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The opening few minutes of this podcast are going to be based around the absence of Dr. Liz Stone.

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Zock in Cambridge.

174
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Yes, he is.

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Investigating German expression is dramatic.

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So he's suspended in midair and he looks like those men in there's a painting and a grit painting with that looks like sort of civil servants falling from the sky like rain and so he's suspended in midair like that.

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And he has some banter with poetry.

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You know, the last time we saw the, um, the time lords, they were really rather terrifying and omnipotent and the doctor was scared of them.

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But now, you know, the doctor's just sort of bantering with them and they're sort of, they are like sort of comedy civil servants.

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And later on, homes will get to do a sort of full scale reinvention of the time lords in deadly assassin, much to everyone's horror at the time.

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Yeah, well, I'm still horrified by it.

182
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I would say, I really like it.

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I think that the Holmes conception of the time lords is fun.

184
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Anyway, we're getting ahead of ourselves.

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There's already so much to discuss in this story.

186
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So then we get the master.

187
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And the master is also just a truly fantastic character here.

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Well, I think it's actually a stroke of brilliance on part of the production team to introduce another time.

189
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They've already realised the limitations of the doctor being trapped on earth.

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Here, as you've said, in the 1st shot, you've got the atar is materialising, you're reintroducing that.

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By having another timeline, you're constantly in these stories, reinforcing to the viewer the concept of the doctor's history.

192
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We've got to remember that only 5000000 people tuned in to the original time moulds back in at the end of trout.

193
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Okay.

194
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And now, in this 1st story, you've got 8000000 viewers tuning in, like you did the previous season.

195
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They're trying to ingrain this into the psyche of the viewer.

196
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You've got that wonderful scene you talked about.

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I think it's just a brilliant scene with that timeward appearing up straight away.

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It's like, this is the master, this is what he does.

199
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You're trapped on earth because we've exiled you there.

200
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You're going back to the viewer and telling them all this information so quickly.

201
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And then there's that wonderful moment where he talks about the doctor's degree is less than the master's one.

202
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Yes, yes.

203
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His scoreboard, either.

204
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I think it was astral science.

205
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Was it a higher degree than yours?

206
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Can I just say, make me look so crestfallen.

207
00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:36.419
It's such a billing card for a moment.

208
00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:38.039
I just went, oh my goodness, you know?

209
00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:40.019
And then the facade goes back up.

210
00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:51.240
There's this really big bravado facade that the 3rd doctor puts on so often that you sometimes can be mistaken for, like he's such a Tory or arrogant or such a.

211
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:52.799
I like the word obnoxious.

212
00:15:52.860 --> 00:15:58.740
Okay, obnoxious, but I actually think it's a lot of bravado and it drops every so often.

213
00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:05.279
You know, I went into this thinking, oh, good grief, you know, this is the 3rd doctor and the last one I watched this story.

214
00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:07.919
I didn't enjoy it at all.

215
00:16:07.980 --> 00:16:11.039
I thought it was a comedy send up of the previous year.

216
00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:14.639
So much so that when I actually went to view this.

217
00:16:14.700 --> 00:16:17.279
I didn't actually earn it on DVD.

218
00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:26.399
I had a DHS copy of the black and white version because I had refused to buy it because I was so outraged at the crackiness of it.

219
00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:33.899
I just can't believe that, you know, that's what I was thinking because I actually think this is actually brilliant.

220
00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:36.960
It is a bit controversial though, and I'll put something in the show notes.

221
00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:42.720
Paul Cornell wrote a very famous article in DWB about how terrible it was.

222
00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:49.139
I think he praises Delgado, and I think he praises Katie Manning, and I think he probably praises Nick Courtney.

223
00:16:49.259 --> 00:16:53.279
But he, you know, thinks the story is not an auton story.

224
00:16:53.340 --> 00:16:55.559
He thinks it's a mess and he doesn't like the doctor at all.

225
00:16:55.620 --> 00:16:59.700
So I'll put a link to that because it was sort of hugely controversial.

226
00:16:59.700 --> 00:17:06.539
And so, you know, like a lot of people didn't like this because they thought it was a comedown from season seven.

227
00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:08.940
But I'm actually relieved by it.

228
00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:10.799
I was finding season 7 so boring.

229
00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:22.980
See, I love I love season seven, but I think you've hit the nail on the head there, Todd, in that, what the presence of the masters is, in giving the doctor an enemy, it also humanises him.

230
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:30.299
And this is something you picked up on last season, Nathan, you know, he's so aloof and so far above everyone, because there's no one he can relate to.

231
00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:41.039
Well, suddenly he's got someone to relate to, and we see that actually the way he relates to people, of his own level is no different to the way humans relate to each other.

232
00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:44.700
And it actually just serves to humanise the character a great deal.

233
00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:57.539
I also wanted to bring up the big criticism I've seen people make of the 3rd doctor and the sort of, this is the damning proof that he is pro-establishment and it's that scene with the civil servant.

234
00:17:57.599 --> 00:17:59.579
We used to talk about this.

235
00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:00.599
Oh, what's his name?

236
00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:02.220
Tubby, Tubby Roland.

237
00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:04.259
Oh, I know brown nose.

238
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:05.700
I know Tubby from the club.

239
00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:07.680
I went into that set.

240
00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:09.779
I had to watch it twice.

241
00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:14.460
And the 1st time I'm thinking, oh, I was so obnoxious.

242
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:15.119
This is, you know.

243
00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:17.400
And then I thought, no, hang on.

244
00:18:17.460 --> 00:18:23.220
The way he's treating the brigadier and other people, he really just wants to get off this planet.

245
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:24.420
He's actually really annoyed.

246
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:30.960
But at the same time, I think he actually then goes and does a bit of research just in case anybody, you know, rockles his feathers.

247
00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:32.579
And I actually think he's never met this man.

248
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:39.119
He's just throwing it in there to ruffle this, this, um, the feathers of this, and he actually doesn't know this man at all.

249
00:18:39.180 --> 00:18:42.059
And it happens a number of times in other stories as well.

250
00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:46.920
He talk, like, in the very next story, he talks about meeting Mouse Situng, but I don't think he's ever met him.

251
00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:50.640
I think it's just to get in and find out what's going on.

252
00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:53.099
And then, you know, It's funny.

253
00:18:53.160 --> 00:19:00.900
By the time you get to the CDs, he tries it on a 3rd or 4th time with one of the guys in the boats about the different wars, and he gives up halfway through.

254
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:05.339
It's like the whole passage just comes down and goes, would you buy this war or this one or this one?

255
00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:08.039
Yeah, it...

256
00:19:08.099 --> 00:19:09.720
Yeah, this war and this war.

257
00:19:09.779 --> 00:19:16.079
And so I'm now actually convinced that in 99% of these cases, you know, it's just bravado.

258
00:19:16.140 --> 00:19:18.059
But he's so obnoxious in that scene.

259
00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:19.740
He really is unbelievable.

260
00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:23.220
And this man is being obnoxious with someone who is being obnoxious to his friend.

261
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:24.839
No, that's really not what's happening.

262
00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:31.500
Mr. Brown rose has come from the ministry. to talk about a whole heap of deaths that are sweeping the country.

263
00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:32.940
And per tweets.

264
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:36.599
So with useful information which they will actually use to help their investigation.

265
00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:37.920
He's there to help them.

266
00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:43.859
Per toy comes in and says, oh, you know, wrong sort of chap creeping into your being.

267
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:57.240
But then dismisses brown roses, petty concerns, and the petty concerns are, A, really, really relevant to the thing that they're investigating, and B, like a huge number of deaths that are sweeping the country.

268
00:19:57.299 --> 00:20:01.319
I just think that poetry comes off, they're just being absolutely unnecessarily obnoxious.

269
00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:03.480
And we will see him do this over and over again.

270
00:20:03.539 --> 00:20:04.259
He's done it before.

271
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:09.900
He comes in and actually makes it more difficult for himself by being so unpleasant.

272
00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:12.480
No, I agree that he does make it more difficult for himself.

273
00:20:12.539 --> 00:20:21.480
And I think this is part of the character from season 7 and the character that I remember as a kid, that's not the character I remember.

274
00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:30.180
And I actually think over the course of this season, It begins to change and it's through the character of Joe in particular that this happens.

275
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:32.700
And as much as I love Liz Shaw.

276
00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:40.920
Liz was seconded to unit and would side with the doctor against the brigadier, whereas Joe is actually employee.

277
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:44.700
And so she has to navigate the waters between the two.

278
00:20:44.759 --> 00:21:02.160
And you actually see as this season progresses, and the next, that there is a change in his doctor, and by the time he's not as quick to jump down the throats of these civil servants by the time I'm midway through season nine, it still happens.

279
00:21:02.220 --> 00:21:06.180
He's still not, he's still prickly, but he will pull back more.

280
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:11.880
And at this point, the character is still very much, you know, in balance with season seven.

281
00:21:11.940 --> 00:21:16.019
I'm sort of glad that it just doesn't change overnight that you actually see this progression.

282
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:17.519
But, you know, I do take your point.

283
00:21:17.579 --> 00:21:21.539
And I think that Barry Letts and Pat's chance to realise that the character can't continue like this.

284
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:31.380
And so they're trying to work a way to change this, you know, even if that's John's initial approach to the part, they're trying to work a way to try and get away from that.

285
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:34.200
So we get the family unit working together.

286
00:21:34.259 --> 00:21:42.660
I think, I think too, uh, it is held by the fact that John, that Pertwe really clearly likes Katie Manning, like, likes her a lot.

287
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:50.819
You can tell the sort of the dynamics of this group of actors really settles in quickly.

288
00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:53.519
You know, they're all getting along very well.

289
00:21:53.579 --> 00:21:59.940
Whereas with the previous season, The previous season was a lot more military in a way.

290
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:09.900
You know, no one actually seemed that chummy with Sergeant Benton, whereas now, because you have Joe, who is an assistant at unit.

291
00:22:10.019 --> 00:22:15.599
You know, she doesn't have any official rank, she's not a sort of a department head, if you like, like, sure.

292
00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:17.880
So she can get on with Benton on a personal level.

293
00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:23.579
And I think it's when Joe starts getting on with Benton on a personal level, that the doctor starts getting on with Benton at a personal level.

294
00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:28.200
Can we talk about how just truly superb, Joey?

295
00:22:28.259 --> 00:22:29.039
Oh, my God.

296
00:22:29.099 --> 00:22:39.720
So the folklore is that, um, Terence Dix thought that, um, Liz was too smart and didn't need things explained to her.

297
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:45.779
And so he brought Joey in as kind of dumb blonde to get menaced and ask the doctor stupid questions.

298
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:48.660
But she's absolutely not that at all.

299
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:51.599
And she, she's really competent.

300
00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:55.920
Um, she's, she pushes the plot along, like we see her.

301
00:22:55.980 --> 00:23:02.819
She's the one who finds the master, she ignores the doctor's instructions and goes off to rescue him at the circus.

302
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:10.200
You know, we see her ordering things on the phone and flirting on the phone in order to get things done for the doctor.

303
00:23:10.259 --> 00:23:13.680
She makes the list of plastic factories for them to investigate.

304
00:23:13.740 --> 00:23:14.940
And she's so funny.

305
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:22.259
Sandra talks about the moment where she's discovered by the master in episode one at the plastics factory.

306
00:23:22.380 --> 00:23:27.420
And rather than screaming and looking terrified or, you know, pulling a kind of Debbie Watling on us.

307
00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:30.779
She just sort of stands up sheepishly and sort of goes.

308
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:35.940
Uh, hello, you know, like, she's terribly, terribly sweet and terribly.

309
00:23:35.940 --> 00:23:39.480
And terribly competent And it's a great performance.

310
00:23:39.539 --> 00:23:50.279
She, um, you know, she really creates, you know, we've talked about this before, and Maureen O'Brien really creates the modern companion or Debbie Watling really creates the modern companion.

311
00:23:50.339 --> 00:23:56.220
But Joe, I think, you know, these days when we think of the doctors travelling with one young woman.

312
00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:00.119
You know, Joe kind of started that and she's terrific.

313
00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:01.380
No, I agree.

314
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:11.099
I mean, the casting of Katie Manning, the casting of Roger Delgado, the casting of Liz Slade and the casting of Tom Baker, Barry Letts has a lot to be praised for.

315
00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:19.500
But it starts here with the marriage of this character of Joe and what she's been written for and getting it to Holmes to actually do.

316
00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:21.359
And with the actress.

317
00:24:21.420 --> 00:24:25.140
And Katie, it's just so adorable from the get go.

318
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:32.579
And she gets in there and destroys the doctor's experiment, you know, just by doing the right thing.

319
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:42.599
And then in the very next scene, when the doctor and the brigadier spoken and the brigadier got the doctor's number and saying, well, you fire...

320
00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:45.900
And then he has to do it, but she walks in and she's so competent.

321
00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:49.200
My goodness, had it been Dodo, Dodo, Ronda pieces, you know?

322
00:24:49.259 --> 00:24:52.740
After destroying anything, I had to go off to the country.

323
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:56.880
So I could make you a list of all the plastic factories, but I burnt it.

324
00:24:56.940 --> 00:24:59.400
And now I'm going to go and have a little lie down.

325
00:24:59.460 --> 00:25:05.279
I think there are some moments in this story where Katie is over the top.

326
00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:10.319
I mean, after she gets hypnotised and gets out of the hypnotism, she's a little bit too hysterical.

327
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:15.539
And there's a few moments like that, but I think that's a settling in thing, which she does very, very quickly.

328
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:18.420
I mean, she has some lovely moments.

329
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:24.420
There's one where she's lying on the floor in the doctor, in the, um, the, the, the, the, the...

330
00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:28.859
The signal to the brigadier and she says something about, you're not gonna drive it, are you?

331
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:30.839
And it's just the look on her face.

332
00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:34.680
I just burst out in laughter and I just thought, you know, that's just so lovely.

333
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:38.519
And that's what I'm discovering is how good Katie is.

334
00:25:38.579 --> 00:25:45.059
We'll put some photos of this on the website and I'm going to out myself because I'm sure I'll be out it soon.

335
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:46.859
Back in December.

336
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:55.559
There was a Doctor Who convention with Katie in Bankstown and I actually went along in cosplay as Joe Grant.

337
00:25:55.619 --> 00:25:58.440
From Planet of the Dialect. from Day of the Dialects.

338
00:25:59.099 --> 00:26:02.099
You know, the reason was Katie was very flattered.

339
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:09.359
I explained to her, well, when I was a child, it was the pertly stories, especially the perfect stories with Joe Grant, that I just watched again and again and again.

340
00:26:09.420 --> 00:26:14.279
My 1st story memory is coming up in a couple of podcasts with Carnival of Monsters.

341
00:26:14.460 --> 00:26:17.400
And yeah, Joe Grant is...

342
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:23.279
She's the archetype of the companion we expect now, you know, she's not Liz Shaw.

343
00:26:23.339 --> 00:26:31.380
She doesn't have degrees in half a dozen subjects or whatever, but she is intelligent of her own intuition.

344
00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:34.500
And that's what you need for a doctor companion.

345
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:44.039
A doctor companion needs that intellect and that intuition and that humanity, that heart, and certainly as the season goes on.

346
00:26:44.099 --> 00:26:58.259
We're going to see a lot of heart from Joe as well, and that's a hugely important part of her character, which, as much as I love Liz Shaw, Liz Shaw didn't seem to have a lot of that list or was a scientist, she could be quite cold and analytical, which is a very positive character trait in itself.

347
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:00.960
Or snarky. or snarky.

348
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:02.880
Astringent.

349
00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:18.660
But I think, yeah, when we start getting this warmth from Joe, really through, once you've met Katie Manning, you know that that warmth isn't acting, that's just purely coming from the actress herself into the character.

350
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:20.339
I mean, you talk about warmth.

351
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:31.980
I mean, you look at the scene with the doctor and show when they go and visit Mrs. Farrow and, you know, the doctor's like gunning for questions. husband's dead.

352
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:36.180
But, you know, then she's there to be that bridge and say, oh, no, you tell us.

353
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:40.319
And then Mrs. Farrell does the very British thing and pulls itself together and tells them everything, but it's through that character.

354
00:27:40.380 --> 00:27:44.700
And Joe is just, as you're both saying, so competent.

355
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:46.380
Like she's a scape artist.

356
00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:50.160
She can knock out strong men with vases, she can rescue the doctor.

357
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:52.619
You're going to talk to Joberman's back.

358
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:54.900
Come on, I hate this so much.

359
00:27:55.019 --> 00:27:59.579
And we add alcoholism to the list of you know, unpleasant stereotypes.

360
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:00.539
He has a drink.

361
00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:01.980
That doesn't make him an alcohol.

362
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:12.960
But, you know, the fact that we see him on screen for such a short amount of time and some of that is him sort of stealing Mr. Rossini's alcohol and smirking like he's done something clever.

363
00:28:13.019 --> 00:28:14.460
It's so bad.

364
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:19.859
And he, I mean, he had been, it's Roy Stewart, isn't it?

365
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:32.700
And he'd been in Live and Let Die, and he plays Quarrel Junior, the son of disposable black guy in Dr. No, but he's like an actual human being who gets lines and things.

366
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:33.900
It just didn't have to be like that.

367
00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:35.220
And that's sort of lazy.

368
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:41.700
Holmes is occasionally guilty of that kind of lazy stereotyping, I think.

369
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:43.859
Sorry, I just had to say.

370
00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:45.480
No, no, no, I had to bring it up.

371
00:28:45.539 --> 00:28:54.359
I wanted to see what the reaction was having her, you know, tomb of the side and et cetera, you know, and what they're doing with racial stereotypes.

372
00:28:54.420 --> 00:29:00.539
But, you know, Joey's competent and, you know, when she knocks out Yates at the end of episode one, like she cloggers him to open the door.

373
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:01.440
Oh, that's good, isn't it?

374
00:29:01.500 --> 00:29:04.019
It undermines Yates, I think.

375
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:05.400
It makes Yates look weak.

376
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:08.160
I mean, later on, she punches Benton in the stomach.

377
00:29:08.220 --> 00:29:12.960
No, no, Ben Benson gets the bum off her, you know. you know, whereas Yates is down to the count.

378
00:29:13.019 --> 00:29:14.339
Luckily.

379
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:15.359
Yeah, no, no.

380
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:16.500
No, he is.

381
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:21.539
I'm watching these episodes And Yates does one thing and it all goes horribly wrong.

382
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:32.339
And then, a few episodes later, they try and redeem him, like, as in this, when he's in the blue engine, the blue little car of the brigadiers and most down in the autumn, he's suddenly man of action.

383
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:35.160
So why can't you not afford proper cars?

384
00:29:35.220 --> 00:29:36.900
I don't know, my mother had one of those cars.

385
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:40.079
I kept looking at going, I've seen that somewhere else before.

386
00:29:40.140 --> 00:29:50.099
Yeah, they had nice black Daimlers or limousines last season in Spearhead from space and now they've got this little sort of pale teal.

387
00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:54.059
Yeah, it was probably the, you know, the production unit manager's car.

388
00:29:54.180 --> 00:29:55.559
Yeah, it was probably Derek Sherwin's car.

389
00:29:55.619 --> 00:29:55.980
Probably.

390
00:29:55.980 --> 00:29:59.579
He came over there to punch that actual majority cake.

391
00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:04.559
He is very bizarre in this in this story to have that little car.

392
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:06.839
Like, I mean, later on they have their Jeeps and all that sort of thing.

393
00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:11.400
Maybe they haven't gone out to purchase them yet, but it is quite strange.

394
00:30:11.460 --> 00:30:13.980
I want to talk about Roger Dorgado some more.

395
00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:15.420
Can we talk about the plan?

396
00:30:15.420 --> 00:30:17.160
With like with Roger Delgado.

397
00:30:17.220 --> 00:30:18.240
Yeah, yeah, we'll talk.

398
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:18.839
I counted.

399
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:21.900
I was so, you know, I did a lot of homework.

400
00:30:22.019 --> 00:30:28.079
The master tries to kill the doctor 7 times. in this story.

401
00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:28.859
Fabulous.

402
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:31.440
So what are we talking once every sort of 15 minutes.

403
00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:33.000
And it sort of fails.

404
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:35.700
And he's never that upset by it.

405
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:36.480
Do you know what I mean?

406
00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:45.839
And his final plan, which is so spectacularly bad, is, you know, he's going to kill the doctor because he's going to bring the autons of the nestines to earth.

407
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:51.180
And then the doctor says, you know, they won't be able to tell the difference between you and us.

408
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:52.680
And he goes, oh yeah, that's right.

409
00:30:52.740 --> 00:30:54.180
All right, I'll stop you.

410
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:55.619
It's so stupid.

411
00:30:55.680 --> 00:31:10.259
And again, Cornell, I think, points this out that Terrence Dix fixes that plot problem by having the brigadier pull a gun on the master and make him help the doctor, which is slightly better, but despite that, or maybe that's even the master's thing.

412
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:12.420
The whole, we get introduced to the master.

413
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:14.160
We need to know what his deal is.

414
00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:23.339
And his deal will be coming up with just increasingly baroque and stupid ways of attempting to kill the doctor and failing every time.

415
00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:29.819
And if the pace of failure or slow down a bit, you'll just fail, sort of wants a story, really, to kill the dog from now on.

416
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:31.019
But we're getting in there right away.

417
00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:56.880
See, um, Barrett Lance and Terret 6, of course, describe, you know, if the doctor Sherlock Holmes, then the master is Moriarty, but especially looking at this story, I come up with another classic hero and villain dichotomy in there, one that's been around since the 30s and has already been referenced in Doctor Who before, because the doctor is essentially an exiled orphan who is trained in hand-to-hand combat.

418
00:31:56.940 --> 00:31:58.140
He got a variety of gadgets.

419
00:31:58.200 --> 00:31:59.160
He's got a secret base.

420
00:31:59.220 --> 00:32:04.559
He got a fancy car with gadgets and a teenage sidekick who is also effectively an orphan.

421
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:06.240
We never hear about Joe's parents.

422
00:32:06.299 --> 00:32:07.980
She's just got that uncle who got her the job.

423
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:10.079
The doctor is Batman.

424
00:32:10.140 --> 00:32:12.180
And the master is the Joker.

425
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:22.319
Because the Joker comes up with these incredibly elaborate schemes based on, For instance, the daffodils because people are already giving out daffodils.

426
00:32:22.380 --> 00:32:26.039
So I will give out dacodils, but they will kill and people are giving out dolls.

427
00:32:26.099 --> 00:32:27.960
Well, I will give out dolls and they will kill.

428
00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:29.880
The doctor likes talking on the phone.

429
00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:31.319
I will kill him with a phone.

430
00:32:31.380 --> 00:32:34.920
It is, it's actually, that's actually not so crazy. is it?

431
00:32:34.980 --> 00:32:42.480
Because, I mean, Batman had run against Doctor Who's sort of fairly recently, like in living memory within the last few years. against Trown, right?

432
00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:43.200
Yes, right.

433
00:32:43.259 --> 00:32:44.160
And it was incredibly popular.

434
00:32:44.220 --> 00:32:45.000
Yeah.

435
00:32:45.059 --> 00:32:45.359
Yeah.

436
00:32:45.420 --> 00:32:45.900
So it is.

437
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:49.440
I mean, it is they are sort of preposterous plants, aren't they?

438
00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:51.059
It is really fun though.

439
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:52.559
Oh, I think so too.

440
00:32:52.619 --> 00:32:55.319
But I mean, I guess he's Batman is incredibly fun as well.

441
00:32:55.380 --> 00:33:01.559
But actually taking your point, you know, there's a number of resolutions in the poetry stories that seem to happen in the last 5 minutes.

442
00:33:01.619 --> 00:33:03.359
Sometimes it's quite rushed.

443
00:33:03.420 --> 00:33:05.940
Often, I think, actually in the 4 part stories.

444
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:13.680
The 3rd part is often the strongest, and the 4th, you know, they wrap things up or it's, you know, and then there's leftover stuff they have to do.

445
00:33:13.740 --> 00:33:17.039
Yes, the master changes his mind very quickly.

446
00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:20.460
They're like, what was the point of the last four?

447
00:33:20.460 --> 00:33:21.960
Yeah, you should have thought that through.

448
00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:28.380
I mean, the master's sort of an interesting character and we've had the master back for last season with Peter Capaldi.

449
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:32.460
And, like, I don't think he's Moriarty.

450
00:33:32.579 --> 00:33:35.279
Well, maybe he is Moriarty to, to home.

451
00:33:35.339 --> 00:33:40.920
So I think I think the idea is that he's the mirror sort of counterpart of the doctor.

452
00:33:40.980 --> 00:33:49.079
Unfortunately, the way they do that here is by having him be sort of patrician and well dressed and arrogant.

453
00:33:49.140 --> 00:33:51.420
Only he looks foreign.

454
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:53.220
So he's like per to be only foreign.

455
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:55.380
Right.

456
00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:59.519
I think that is a slightly, you know, the Nehru colour and the kind of being Spanish.

457
00:33:59.579 --> 00:34:08.340
But I think, I think, I think also Doctor Who has used the Nehru collar as a shorthand villain before in Kevin Stoney.

458
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:08.940
Yeah.

459
00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:22.320
Roger Delgado's European heritage, I don't think is what got him the role, if you like, but I think it did get him past villain roles, proved his worth as a villain, and that got in that.

460
00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:23.519
So in a way, yes.

461
00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:33.300
But at the same time, I was about to say they don't really play on it, but they do actually play on the fact that he looks a bit Spanish later on this season, don't they?

462
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:34.320
So you may have something there.

463
00:34:34.619 --> 00:34:36.599
But he's just so good.

464
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:41.340
And he's so he's so still and calm and mesmerising.

465
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:42.300
Boom.

466
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:46.019
And it's sort of like, you know, you can now watch this show.

467
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:50.760
You can either go for the team and they've got a win or...

468
00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:51.960
We've got this.

469
00:34:52.019 --> 00:34:52.559
Yeah that's right.

470
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:56.039
And what's great about that stillness is.

471
00:34:56.099 --> 00:34:57.960
Occasionally he does lose his temper.

472
00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:02.280
And you can just see there results so much bubbling under the surface.

473
00:35:02.340 --> 00:35:05.400
Like when Mr. Farrell Sr. can't be hypnotised.

474
00:35:05.460 --> 00:35:09.480
The master really gets angry for a few seconds, but then stops himself.

475
00:35:09.539 --> 00:35:19.260
And that was something I felt recently was missing with the John Sim incarnation, who just often seemed to be very, very angry and didn't have those moments of stillness, sadly.

476
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:20.880
He had sort of funny moments.

477
00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:32.519
I mean, John Simsmaster, the idea is that the real threat he poses is that he will take over a star of the show because one of the things that we know that a time war does is starring Doctor Who.

478
00:35:32.579 --> 00:35:33.599
You know what I mean?

479
00:35:33.659 --> 00:35:38.099
And so John Sim appears on the series 3 DVD covers and stuff, you know what I mean?

480
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:40.440
And sidelines tend completely.

481
00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:44.219
And I think that's a great conception, you know, that that's the real threat.

482
00:35:44.340 --> 00:35:45.239
That's true.

483
00:35:45.300 --> 00:35:48.059
The nesting is really crummy again, isn't it?

484
00:35:48.119 --> 00:35:52.559
I mean, last time it was sort of a box full of glad rap with someone throwing tentacles out of it now.

485
00:35:52.860 --> 00:35:54.539
I was out of focus washing up glove.

486
00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:56.039
It's really bad.

487
00:35:56.039 --> 00:35:57.000
It's like tinsel.

488
00:35:57.059 --> 00:36:01.019
And again, it was so the, do you remember the, do you remember the novelisation?

489
00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:04.920
Yes, the Alan Hood artwork with the with the eye.

490
00:36:04.980 --> 00:36:07.559
Yeah, the big eye octopus tentacle thing.

491
00:36:07.619 --> 00:36:09.360
It really never looked like that at all.

492
00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:10.440
It was terrible.

493
00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:11.219
No, never.

494
00:36:11.340 --> 00:36:21.659
Unfortunately, there isn't a Japanese version of that, but the Japanese novelisation, a sphere head from space, pretty much takes that nesting and that's the nesting monster in auton invasion.

495
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:24.420
I mean, even the so iconic.

496
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:30.300
Even the target novelisation had that great, had a great picture of a nesting in it.

497
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:30.840
Yeah.

498
00:36:30.900 --> 00:36:34.139
Um, I want to talk about some of the minor characters in this.

499
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:38.940
Michael Wisher, I think is fantastic as Mr. Farrell Jr.

500
00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:42.840
He was in it last year. as the newscaster guy in Ambassadors, okay?

501
00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:44.880
Yeah, we forgot to mention it.

502
00:36:44.940 --> 00:36:45.840
Yeah, yeah, completely different.

503
00:36:45.900 --> 00:37:00.539
I just think he does a great job of, you know, being under the influence and then wavering like he's not there with the master and and then you've got, you know, the scientists who get shrunk to the size of a doll, but aren't a doll?

504
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:05.400
And Mrs. Farrell, who some people have a go in, but I actually quite like her.

505
00:37:05.460 --> 00:37:13.440
She's very stoic. carries on Robert Holmes does have a gift for very strong characterisation of minor characters.

506
00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:22.800
In this story in particular, I quite like to compare young Mr. Farrell and Rossini, because young Mr. Farrell is constantly questioning why am I doing this?

507
00:37:22.860 --> 00:37:24.179
Is this really me?

508
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:24.780
What's going on?

509
00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:27.300
Whereas Brasini is just like, nah, I'm a pug.

510
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:28.139
Yep, I'll get my money.

511
00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:28.380
Great.

512
00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:30.780
And it's a great contrast there.

513
00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:36.119
But also is it saying that people of the lower classes have no moral fibre.

514
00:37:36.179 --> 00:37:38.579
Whereas a businessman has moral fibre.

515
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:43.019
Hmm, right, your answers in on one of those kinds.

516
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:46.500
Okay, there's one other thing I want to talk about and has to be talked about.

517
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:49.320
It's the use of CSO in this story.

518
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:51.300
Oh, God, yes, it's a CSO.

519
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.820
It is unbelievable.

520
00:37:53.880 --> 00:38:07.199
The number of shots that Barry Let's use is in CSO, he really does try to cut things in with mid-shots and headshots and not focus on what's going on in the background.

521
00:38:07.260 --> 00:38:15.900
For the most part, like you've got you've got the stuff in the car, like that's all we might have the CSA stuff as they're driving along, which, you know, is taken from Hollywood films and that sort of thing.

522
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:24.119
You've got the telescope tower, like, and again, most of that stuff, he tries to frame it with people rather than what's going on behind.

523
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:34.739
I watched it in black and white, to see it was any better, because of course, at this time, I still watching black and white, here in Australia, it's still going to be a black and white premium as people watching that.

524
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:45.780
And you know, for the most part, you can, you can sort of, he gets away with most of it, most of the time, because it's like it's like there and then it's gone and before you kind of think, well, there's something strange about that.

525
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:52.260
It's it's gone past you and you're not going to see it again, as I've mentioned before in rewatching it because you can't record it.

526
00:38:52.320 --> 00:39:00.840
But, There are a couple of moments that really, Take the K talking about...

527
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:06.480
Yes, Mrs. Kitchen and the Master's Auton Ladd, right?

528
00:39:06.539 --> 00:39:07.619
They're determined.

529
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:14.340
And there's another moment where Joe is on a in a telephone booth, which is also just, but I think you're wrong.

530
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:18.900
I think it's deliberate and I think it does, it's part of that comic book thing that you said before.

531
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:20.760
So we get these quick shots of things.

532
00:39:20.820 --> 00:39:33.420
Uh, you know, it would have been uh, impractical or too expensive to build a set for, you know, the scene where the master and Lou Russell um, steal the auton thing.

533
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:36.300
But so what it's doing, it is contributing.

534
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:40.860
It's got really, really quick shots and it makes the world less real.

535
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:43.199
It contributes to that comic book thing.

536
00:39:43.260 --> 00:39:45.599
And I think it's a deliberate artistic choice.

537
00:39:45.599 --> 00:40:08.159
And we're going to see poetry, poetry, era, do this again soon in Claws of Axos, where, you know, just as the master is making the world more terrifying by people in it with sort of killer flowers and killer shop window dummies and killer, promotional head guys and killer dolls, the director is making the world less real, less like the one we inhabit and more psychedelic.

538
00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:18.780
And we will see that, and it's a deliberate reaction to against last year's sort of grim succession. of bases scientific establishments. you know what I mean?

539
00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:24.300
This is a a brightly coloured, fast moving and glam and artificial world.

540
00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:25.500
I take a point.

541
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:35.400
I understand all the reasons why he's doing it. 99% of the time, or 95% of the time, I actually think it works, and he's really trying hard to use the resources that are available.

542
00:40:35.460 --> 00:40:40.380
And if you didn't have this going on now, you wouldn't have what we have now with all the CGI that we have, you know?

543
00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:48.360
This is him doing his version of CGI and using that technology to make those choices and to keep the story moving and not overspend and all that sort of stuff.

544
00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:51.179
And, you know, most of the time it works quite well.

545
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:57.360
There's just those couple of shots that I just kind of go, oh, you know, I love Mrs. Farris.

546
00:40:57.420 --> 00:40:59.159
No, I actually like her, Keisha.

547
00:40:59.219 --> 00:41:04.380
You know, and it's such a short shot, but I think that sometimes people go, oh, the CSO in this is just terrible.

548
00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:05.940
It really is the whole thing, but it doesn't.

549
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:06.539
It doesn't.

550
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:10.920
Barrylex does use it more than other directors having watched the next run of stories.

551
00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:14.639
Yeah, directors use it much more sparingly at certain times.

552
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:17.699
But he does start to pair it back a bit after this, which is good.

553
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:19.860
But just before we move on.

554
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:25.019
I would like to praise particular CSO shot, and that is the shock of Gooch in the lunchbox.

555
00:41:25.019 --> 00:41:30.900
Because both in colour and in black and white, that actually looks like an actor in a set.

556
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:32.219
Yeah.

557
00:41:32.219 --> 00:41:37.980
There's a little tiny bit of fringing on the colour version, but it's one of the best CSO shots in the entire Perl era.

558
00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:40.500
They were going to put a doll in there, weren't they?

559
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:40.920
Yeah.

560
00:41:40.980 --> 00:41:44.219
It's much better than the dollies you get in.

561
00:41:44.460 --> 00:41:47.579
They get rid of them pretty quickly.

562
00:41:47.699 --> 00:41:52.619
But it is interesting how, like, it's only in home stories that the master shrinks people to that size.

563
00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:55.559
Like the other ones, I don't think it shrinks anybody else in the rest of the season.

564
00:41:55.619 --> 00:41:57.179
No, he has a laser pistol later.

565
00:41:57.239 --> 00:41:58.019
It's different.

566
00:41:58.079 --> 00:41:58.559
Yeah.

567
00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:03.119
Maybe it is not to have to go through the whole CSO setup and all that sort of thing.

568
00:42:03.179 --> 00:42:07.559
It's also because it fits in with the Batman sensibility of this story.

569
00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:08.400
Do you know what I mean?

570
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:24.300
Yes, well, um, the 1966 Batman film, which featured Cesar Romero, Joker, Lee Mary, whether it's Catwoman, um, both Merrick, Penguin, Frank Gautian's Riddler, that was theatrically shown in the UK and the villains in that.

571
00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:30.059
Didn't exactly add a shrimp ray, but they had a dehydration ray, which reduced people to powder.

572
00:42:30.059 --> 00:42:33.239
Coloured powder, a little vial of coloured sherbet powder.

573
00:42:33.300 --> 00:42:35.639
Perhaps that's another antecedent of this story.

574
00:42:35.699 --> 00:42:42.599
Having been allocated this story, I was really pleasantly surprised, and I've certainly revised my opinion of it.

575
00:42:42.659 --> 00:42:48.000
It's a great start to the brand new vision that Terrence Dixon, Barry, let's bring into the show.

576
00:42:48.059 --> 00:42:51.780
Well, coming off that, let's see what you think of, the mind of evil.

577
00:42:58.019 --> 00:43:01.139
All right, so, the mind of evil.

578
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:03.539
So you've got Don...

579
00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:04.559
Yep.

580
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:06.119
Who wrote Inferno?

581
00:43:06.179 --> 00:43:08.219
Inferno, you've got the director.

582
00:43:08.460 --> 00:43:11.219
To Tim Coombe, who directed...

583
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:12.000
Oh, say lyrics.

584
00:43:12.059 --> 00:43:15.179
So we've got 2 throwbacks to season seven.

585
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:24.719
And I actually think that of all the stories in this season, for me anyway, this is the one where at least starts off very much like a season 7 story.

586
00:43:24.780 --> 00:43:25.920
I think his Shaw could be there.

587
00:43:25.980 --> 00:43:29.460
The doctor's in his own plot, separate to the brigadier, like a co-lead.

588
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:35.579
And the doctor's gone to investigate some sort of scientific thing, which he just, well, he's very narky quite frankly.

589
00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:36.659
He's obnoxious.

590
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:40.800
He keeps interrupting as Professor Watt's face.

591
00:43:40.860 --> 00:43:42.119
God, how horrible is that?

592
00:43:42.179 --> 00:43:43.559
He keeps interrupting.

593
00:43:43.619 --> 00:43:44.699
I know what a rude person.

594
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:52.619
And he derides the idea that there might be humane ways of treating prisoners and even at some point seems to be supporting the death penalty.

595
00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:54.780
It is a very odd scene, isn't it?

596
00:43:54.840 --> 00:44:03.360
When the professor says science has abolished the hangman's noose in a sign of progress, and the doctor says, it depends what you mean by progress, is it?

597
00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:04.139
Hold on.

598
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:04.440
What?

599
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:07.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah. saying we should hang people by the neck until they are dead.

600
00:44:08.099 --> 00:44:09.719
Yeah, no, awful.

601
00:44:09.780 --> 00:44:10.260
He awful.

602
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:18.840
He only tops it later in episode 6 when Barnum dies and Joe expresses grief over Barnum's death and his response is, well, how do you think I feel?

603
00:44:18.900 --> 00:44:20.639
Yeah, how do you feel?

604
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:21.539
How do you think I feel?

605
00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:23.219
I'm still stuck here without my ride home?

606
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:26.519
It's like, yeah, why did people punch it in the throat all the time?

607
00:44:26.579 --> 00:44:27.659
That's what I wanna know.

608
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:30.659
I can't answer that.

609
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:37.800
But they do subject him to the Keller machine a number of times in this episode where he gets to make those gurning faces.

610
00:44:37.860 --> 00:44:43.739
Now, we have to remember that in the previous story, he also got strangled so he kept the girding faces.

611
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:46.679
And the previous story to that, he went from one world to the other.

612
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:48.300
I mean, he got mirror-oned.

613
00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:49.980
So he got girding faces.

614
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:55.139
Then in the ambassador's deck, he got put up in a rocket, so he got the girding face.

615
00:44:55.199 --> 00:45:05.460
Then in the Salarians, he got the girding face when the Salarian went, and then in the original story of his, then he also makes the gooding face when the tentacles go around his neck.

616
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:07.559
And Greek story so far.

617
00:45:07.619 --> 00:45:09.480
I think we need to set up a tumblr.

618
00:45:09.539 --> 00:45:10.199
That's genius.

619
00:45:10.260 --> 00:45:17.460
And then in the claws of Axos, he's actually in a chair in getting zapped by the Axons and it's another.

620
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:19.260
It's another gurning face.

621
00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:24.659
I think after this point, John Hasting has gone to Terrence Sticks and going, you can't keep doing this too.

622
00:45:24.659 --> 00:45:26.519
After this series, stories.

623
00:45:26.579 --> 00:45:26.940
It's there.

624
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:27.480
It's there.

625
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:29.579
It is. right. never noticed it before.

626
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:35.159
The other thing about him being subject to the Keller machine is, is he really that afraid of Coquillian?

627
00:45:35.340 --> 00:45:50.820
I seem to recall that in the completely useless encyclopedia by Chris Lyons, they posit the theory that the only reason he's so afraid of Coquillian is that he thinks it'll take him 50 minutes again to see through such a transparent disguise and he's horribly embarrassed by the whole affair.

628
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:56.760
But I like, I like the fact that the 1st time he's subjected to it, he sees all the flames from in Furnace, that's reference to that.

629
00:45:56.760 --> 00:46:04.619
But then when you get the cliffhanger with the Dalek voices and all those images to begin with, I couldn't even make up one of what one of those images was the new struggle.

630
00:46:04.619 --> 00:46:08.880
The 2nd time it is a bit clearer and you can actually work it out.

631
00:46:08.940 --> 00:46:14.940
But that 1st time it's only the Dalek voices that sort of, you got to go, oh, okay, that's a nice little throwback to that sort of thing.

632
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:20.880
So again, here we've got these little throwbacks to what's happening in the recent past, that sort of thing.

633
00:46:20.940 --> 00:46:24.119
I think the earliest one they have in there is a zombie.

634
00:46:24.179 --> 00:46:32.099
So again, it's that reward for longtime fans. that new viewers can also go, oh, what was that?

635
00:46:32.219 --> 00:46:33.119
Was that a giant ant?

636
00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:40.139
So it's still exciting for a new viewer who has no idea what these things are.

637
00:46:40.199 --> 00:46:43.739
It's a very good method of visual storytelling.

638
00:46:43.800 --> 00:46:52.199
And just another example of, yeah, Doctor Who is starting to do info ducts and continuity references, but it's doing them very well.

639
00:46:52.260 --> 00:46:54.780
It's very nice in these 1st episodes.

640
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:59.519
Joe's really warm and she goes to see Barnum in the hospital when she's talking to the Michael Scherard.

641
00:46:59.579 --> 00:47:05.280
Michael Who's great, you know, again, it's one of these stories.

642
00:47:05.340 --> 00:47:10.860
Well, it's a 6 episode of where certain characters come in and out and that happens a few times in the perch year.

643
00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:12.719
It's very interesting that not in everything.

644
00:47:12.780 --> 00:47:14.099
He's not in every single episode.

645
00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:18.300
Speaking of, we've got another debut of a very important character, this story.

646
00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:20.280
Corporal Bell.

647
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:22.440
Fantastic.

648
00:47:22.500 --> 00:47:24.719
And they're expanding the unit family lash again.

649
00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:27.840
I knew she really even existed. 30 years.

650
00:47:27.900 --> 00:47:30.539
She just looks fabulous.

651
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:32.159
And she's so no nonsense.

652
00:47:32.219 --> 00:47:34.199
Like she just sits there and gets on with her job.

653
00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:37.260
And it's this very odd thing of, yeah, it's a small part.

654
00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:42.000
She is not given much to do, but manages to put in a good performance.

655
00:47:42.059 --> 00:47:46.260
You know, you're never in any doubt that, Okay, yes, you are a professional.

656
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:47.880
So she's invited back.

657
00:47:47.940 --> 00:47:49.619
She does 2 stories, doesn't she?

658
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:50.760
She does this an axis.

659
00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:55.019
And then Kate Foots are in a novelisation that gives her brain cancer, I think.

660
00:47:55.079 --> 00:47:56.039
Oh, great.

661
00:47:56.099 --> 00:48:06.480
And David and McKinty put her in a novel called Face of the Anime, a very good novel. where it's explained what happens to her between season 8 and 9.

662
00:48:06.599 --> 00:48:15.659
Pretty much, well, she doesn't get brain cancer at that point, maybe she does later on, but she is given a quiet discharge because she blackmailed into healthy the enemy.

663
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:17.940
Okay, I have heard of that story.

664
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:19.739
We will put a link to it in this notes.

665
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:20.340
Very, very good.

666
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:22.860
But of course, she's in the brigadiers.

667
00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:25.500
Subplot, which at this point isn't linked to the doctors.

668
00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:34.559
You know, we've got this whole peace conference with the Chinese and I think it's actually great that they're actually doing something like this, you know, Nixon hasn't gone to China yet.

669
00:48:34.619 --> 00:48:40.679
Our prime minister, you know, it's still a few years away before he is, is, um, it goes to China.

670
00:48:40.739 --> 00:48:43.619
So it's so relevant to what's going on in the world.

671
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:44.699
And I like that link.

672
00:48:44.820 --> 00:48:50.219
And then we've got actual Chinese people playing the Chinese, which is great.

673
00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:54.960
I think it may be the 1st time in Doctor Who, we've had people listen Zenya Merton from Burma.

674
00:48:55.260 --> 00:48:58.079
Yes, I think that's right.

675
00:48:58.139 --> 00:49:00.239
Actually, you're quite right.

676
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:15.119
In Marco Polo. they did actually have a lot of Asian actors filling out the background because Daniel Merton is, of course, Asian as well, but I think it's the 1st time since then because in the Crusades, we had Bernard K and Roger Avon, in 2 of the Sidemen, we had Shirley Cookland.

677
00:49:15.179 --> 00:49:18.539
And well, I suppose George Pastel.

678
00:49:18.599 --> 00:49:28.559
But yeah, it's it's a big step forward from a program who that has often just applied heavy makeup to actors' faces to make them look forward.

679
00:49:28.619 --> 00:49:31.440
You do know that it's Don Horton's wife, though, don't you?

680
00:49:31.500 --> 00:49:32.639
You do know this, actually.

681
00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:33.780
I had actually...

682
00:49:33.780 --> 00:49:36.539
Wasn't she great?

683
00:49:36.659 --> 00:49:41.940
Isn't Kicks and Lim as Corporal... sorry, Captain Chin Li.

684
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:44.579
Yeah, she is really excellent.

685
00:49:44.699 --> 00:49:48.780
I think she is very good in the 1st 2 episodes.

686
00:49:49.019 --> 00:49:51.599
I'm going to qualify this, right?

687
00:49:51.659 --> 00:49:56.340
And it's, you know, as Yeats mentions a pity, she's quite a dog.

688
00:49:56.820 --> 00:50:10.619
Well, I love that look from Nicholas Courtney, because, of course, Richard Franklin has now written novels about Yeats and what happened to Yeats afterwards, and, yeah, pretty much Yeats say it's so strange, if those novels.

689
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:16.260
And there's a look from Nicholas Courtney when Yates says that, and it's not a look of, oh, you dirty young man.

690
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:19.199
It's a look off, seriously, Mike, everyone knows.

691
00:50:19.559 --> 00:50:21.480
It's very true.

692
00:50:21.539 --> 00:50:26.820
Look, it's great that I think she does a great job of being possessed for the 1st 2 episodes.

693
00:50:26.940 --> 00:50:34.079
Then we get the unfortunate incident with the American Ambassador.

694
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:37.980
Where she has to turn into Puff the Magic Dragon.

695
00:50:38.099 --> 00:50:40.380
Oh, the dragon's really bad, isn't it?

696
00:50:40.500 --> 00:50:44.579
Yes, but I'll give the director this in Clickhang out of episode two. really cutting around it.

697
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:45.659
So you don't see it.

698
00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:49.199
Unfortunately, then for some bizarre reason at the beginning of episode three.

699
00:50:49.260 --> 00:50:52.500
You then see the whole thing in all of its disgrace, right?

700
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:53.820
It's really, really bad.

701
00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:55.739
It's a vinyl.

702
00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:57.179
Oh, it's just awful.

703
00:50:57.239 --> 00:51:05.639
And often in a poetry 6 part, I've discovered that there's almost often one episode, for some reason, that is worse than the others through design or through whatever.

704
00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:10.679
And it happens to be episode 3 because you get that stupid dragon shot, which I just went, you for real?

705
00:51:10.739 --> 00:51:19.920
Then it turns back into Captain Chinle, who then does the wonderful, I'm going to faint, but I don't want to hurt myself kind of.

706
00:51:19.980 --> 00:51:21.780
Then the doctor has...

707
00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:22.440
No, it's true.

708
00:51:22.500 --> 00:51:27.119
And then the doctor has to talk to her and she's coming around and it's just the worst acting.

709
00:51:27.179 --> 00:51:30.360
After that, she's then shipped off to the country and we never see her again.

710
00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:32.159
She's staying with Dodo.

711
00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:32.940
I must think.

712
00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:35.280
But that's her weak moment.

713
00:51:35.340 --> 00:51:36.900
The 1st episode, I think she's very good in.

714
00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:42.000
She does appear to be the only Chinese person, the only Chinese woman in London, of course.

715
00:51:42.059 --> 00:51:50.280
Because when, yeah, yeah, when the Brigadier Expresses surprise that Benton somehow managed to lose her in broad daylight.

716
00:51:50.340 --> 00:51:57.780
No, no, but there's also the thing that the link between the 2 parts of the story, published by the fact that there's a Chinese girl in both parts of the story.

717
00:51:57.840 --> 00:51:59.940
A Chinese girl, says the doctor.

718
00:52:00.300 --> 00:52:01.980
There's only one of those.

719
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:08.760
Well, you know, it's Doctor Who, and sometimes they just make these sort of links that you kind of have to...

720
00:52:08.820 --> 00:52:09.960
You just do you just run with it?

721
00:52:10.019 --> 00:52:10.920
Yeah, well, that's the thing.

722
00:52:10.980 --> 00:52:13.559
Coming back to that whole homesy an idea.

723
00:52:13.619 --> 00:52:16.679
Sherlock Holmes would often make giant leaks like that.

724
00:52:16.739 --> 00:52:19.139
It would be presented because that's the only possible option.

725
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:33.000
For instance, the 1st episode of the Stephen Moffat, Mark Gaitis, Sherlock Holmes, Sherlock deduces that John's sister has a drinking problem because there are scuff marks around where the charger goes into her phone.

726
00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:35.940
And I just watched that and looked at my phone and it's like, there's got work going into mind.

727
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:36.840
I am not an alcoholic.

728
00:52:36.900 --> 00:52:37.920
I just clumsy and lazy.

729
00:52:37.980 --> 00:52:42.539
Look, you really, you know, it's probably about time that Todd and I talk to you about this.

730
00:52:42.599 --> 00:52:46.500
Well, this is the 1st thing that you need to do is admit that you have a problem.

731
00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:48.599
But this is just Pepsi.

732
00:52:48.659 --> 00:52:52.500
This is just 100 mils of Pepsi with 500 mils of vodka.

733
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:53.760
I don't see what the problem is.

734
00:52:53.820 --> 00:52:56.639
It's really interesting in episode two.

735
00:52:56.760 --> 00:52:58.920
Benton's not in episode.

736
00:52:58.980 --> 00:53:10.980
And we only see him going undercover to see Chinlei in episode 2, and he, of course, has a bit of a headache and the brigadier is not so... sympathetic.

737
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:13.860
You're too delicate for intelligence to my invention.

738
00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:15.420
Perhaps you should go after that.

739
00:53:15.480 --> 00:53:27.900
One of the things I have discovered is how Barky did, in fact, the brigadier is and how rigidity is in his beliefs of how to deal with um, things from out of space or not of this world.

740
00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:43.079
And he's actually, Nick Courtney makes him so warm and you know, there's nice moments where he, you know, he raises the eyebrow or whatever, but there's, there's other points where I kind of think, you know, the brick area is quite, you know, this is the way it's going to be, and this is how I'm going to deal with it.

741
00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:47.940
He does think that that too delicate for intelligence work line is funny.

742
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:54.599
Like you can tell that, you know, even the brigadier is sort of, it is the raised eyebrow or the curled lip or something.

743
00:53:54.659 --> 00:53:59.579
However authoritarian he's been, his lovely warmth is exactly the right word, I think.

744
00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:10.079
But I think I see where you're going with this toad, and that is the brigadier doesn't seem to be change to becoming more accepting by all these alien invasions.

745
00:54:10.139 --> 00:54:14.219
If anything, it makes him batten down his belief that there's a rational explanation for everything.

746
00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:16.500
He sort of ups the scully factor, if you like.

747
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:18.239
Yeah, and it continues.

748
00:54:18.300 --> 00:54:19.619
Yeah, it continues throughout all of this.

749
00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:26.099
I was actually quite surprised at how literally he grows in as a character in that belief, like through what I've been watching.

750
00:54:26.219 --> 00:54:28.619
And it was surprising, but you know.

751
00:54:28.619 --> 00:54:30.539
It's a part in the narrative that he needs to play.

752
00:54:30.659 --> 00:54:32.219
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree.

753
00:54:32.280 --> 00:54:34.380
I mean, certainly with Yates coming in, he has to play that even more.

754
00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:36.599
And so he's much more deskbound.

755
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:44.340
So it's really great when you actually see him getting out and doing things now, but he's no longer the co-lead per se and that's changing the season.

756
00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:45.000
Yeah.

757
00:54:45.059 --> 00:54:51.059
Well, I think that's a result of you now have 6 main cast, if you like.

758
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:53.639
And yeah, we would often see this in Star Trek.

759
00:54:53.699 --> 00:55:00.840
There are very few episodes of Star Trek or Star Trek the Next Generation that feature all of the lead actors equally.

760
00:55:00.900 --> 00:55:10.679
You know, at the moment, Star Trek, the next generation discussed to a man on Blu-ray, we're making our way through that and, you know, you'll have a data episode and then you'll have a Deanna Troy episode and then you'll have a Riker episode.

761
00:55:10.739 --> 00:55:12.300
Doctor Who can't really have that.

762
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:15.659
Each episode has to focus to some extent on the doctor.

763
00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:18.840
Therefore, the secondary focus becomes the companion.

764
00:55:18.900 --> 00:55:23.280
Now, in season 7, that was pretty much split equally between the brig and Liz.

765
00:55:23.400 --> 00:55:34.079
But I think with the fact that they wanted to emphasise a costar who would need things explained to them as an audience surrogate.

766
00:55:34.139 --> 00:55:35.579
That why Joe gets sort of pushed up.

767
00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:37.440
And then you've got the master as well.

768
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:42.840
And he's a major guest star and he's Roger Delgado, who was a big name at the time.

769
00:55:42.900 --> 00:55:45.719
You know, he had guessed it in loads of different things.

770
00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:47.099
He had been in films.

771
00:55:47.159 --> 00:55:48.119
He was in high demand.

772
00:55:48.179 --> 00:55:49.260
So he needs to have a lot to do.

773
00:55:49.380 --> 00:55:56.519
In a way, Nick goes from being equal second lead last season to 4th league this season.

774
00:55:56.579 --> 00:56:07.860
And I think it's a great testament to Nick, that if he was annoyed by that, or if he felt slighted by that, you cannot see any of it in his performance, he is still having the time of his life.

775
00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:09.780
Yeah, no, no, it's so true.

776
00:56:09.780 --> 00:56:17.400
And with all these different characters, you know, Mike, for example, in this, like in episode two, he sent to get the doctor from the prison.

777
00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:23.880
And the doctor doesn't want to go, and of course, he uses his Venusian karate.

778
00:56:23.940 --> 00:56:25.199
Now, is that the 1st appearance of it?

779
00:56:25.260 --> 00:56:25.739
Am I?

780
00:56:25.980 --> 00:56:37.559
No, it did appear in Inferno and it's really weird because in Inferno, it was presented as a defensive martial art, you know, the doctor never tries to attack anyone.

781
00:56:37.619 --> 00:56:40.679
People attack him and the doctor uses their force against them.

782
00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:45.840
I think this is the 1st time that the doctor actually sets about someone with it and it's quite uncomfortable.

783
00:56:45.900 --> 00:56:56.880
But on the other hand, I think that Richard Franklin does a lot better in this story than he does in, um, than he does in terror of the autons.

784
00:56:56.940 --> 00:56:57.900
I agree with you.

785
00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:03.300
I mean, you can see that he's much more comfortable with the character and what he is doing on set.

786
00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:08.099
And he really holds his own in those couple of scenes he has with Roger Delgado.

787
00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:09.780
He's challenging Roger Dog Adam.

788
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:10.380
Why are you doing this?

789
00:57:10.440 --> 00:57:11.460
How can you be so cruel?

790
00:57:11.579 --> 00:57:18.719
And it's actually quite, his moral indignation is quite powerful and it tells us something about the character, which we'll come back to in later years.

791
00:57:18.780 --> 00:57:26.219
And it's very interesting that he's the 1st unit character to actually get that confrontation with the master, a full bedroom and before the brigadier.

792
00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:27.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good.

793
00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:27.960
I haven't thought of that.

794
00:57:28.980 --> 00:57:33.960
Now, also, we don't have to get someone back by the brigadier, but, you know, the doctor has an agenda.

795
00:57:34.019 --> 00:57:38.280
He wants certain equipment, everything, and the brigadiers going, oh, yes, yes, I'll do all of that and everything like that.

796
00:57:38.340 --> 00:57:41.400
It's really nice to see that 2 can play at that game.

797
00:57:41.400 --> 00:57:47.699
And then, of course, then they go to see the Chinese delegate and the doctor then decides to speak in Chinese.

798
00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:50.579
Is this the 1st time that we've had subtitles in the show?

799
00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:51.780
Yes, yes, I believe so.

800
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:55.860
And I think he specifically says with Fu Peng is speaking in Hokkien.

801
00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:56.519
Yes, okay.

802
00:57:56.519 --> 00:57:59.579
Whereas with Chin Li speaking Cantonese.

803
00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:00.059
Yes.

804
00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:11.280
What's interesting, of course, is according to the production notes, yeah, it's actually Pixen Lim, who coached John Pertwee, in the Chinese phraseology.

805
00:58:11.340 --> 00:58:15.420
Yeah, because it said in the script, he speaks Chinese.

806
00:58:15.420 --> 00:58:19.500
Of course, Don Horton was able to talk to Pixen Lim and say, oh, well, you know, I need a few phrases.

807
00:58:19.559 --> 00:58:21.119
Can you help me out?

808
00:58:21.179 --> 00:58:25.139
And apparently John was quite nervous about getting it right.

809
00:58:25.199 --> 00:58:35.519
You know, he didn't want to get it wrong because, yeah, he's such a professional, and we've heard so many stories that he had to follow the script rigidly, and he needed everything to make sense, so he knew what he was saying.

810
00:58:35.579 --> 00:58:42.179
So, yeah, even though his character may be a tad arrogant, at least he was trying to get it right in his own mind.

811
00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:45.239
Can I talk about the moral philosophy of this story?

812
00:58:45.780 --> 00:58:48.539
The thing that I hate the most about it.

813
00:58:48.599 --> 00:58:49.619
Okay, go to it.

814
00:58:49.679 --> 00:59:00.840
So in episode one, we get told by Professor Catering, the evil, antisocial behaviour is governed by certain negative or evil impulses.

815
00:59:00.900 --> 00:59:06.420
And so they're pulling these negative or evil impulses out of people and storing them in a giant box.

816
00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:17.760
And the reason that people are evil is these evil impulses and has nothing to do with kind of economic or social pressures. you know.

817
00:59:17.820 --> 00:59:21.119
And so the whole thing is really, really conservative.

818
00:59:21.179 --> 00:59:28.079
And it has an impact on the way the story is told because all the people in the prisoner, evil by definition.

819
00:59:28.139 --> 00:59:34.199
And so in episode, the end of episode five, I think it's a really shockingly horrible scene.

820
00:59:34.260 --> 00:59:42.599
You have the brigadier and the unit people storming the prison and just shooting a whole bunch of people and you see it sort of quite close up.

821
00:59:42.599 --> 00:59:56.639
You know, there's one, there's one thing where Nick comes in and just goes, bang, bang, bang in 3 corners of the room and just shoots 3 people in the space of like, and later on they kind of wallpaper over it by having Dr. Summers say there's lots of wounded and stuff.

822
00:59:56.699 --> 01:00:03.239
But because these people have so many evil impulses, they're evil and they can be killed.

823
01:00:03.239 --> 01:00:06.119
And that seems to be okay with all of us.

824
01:00:06.239 --> 01:00:16.980
Well, it seems like, look, I do agree that there's a huge body count in this episode and it's not just the prison guards and the prisoners, it's also unit.

825
01:00:17.039 --> 01:00:19.619
I'm actually... no, no, no.

826
01:00:19.679 --> 01:00:34.079
I swear, watching these stories that, you know, you want to be in unit, put up your hand, you know, if you've got a death wish, you've got a 50% chance of survival, you know, the brigadier has obviously got funerals are us on speed dial because, you know, unit soldiers are going down.

827
01:00:34.139 --> 01:00:40.860
You know, I'm absolutely astounded at the number of unit soldiers or red shirts that, you know, go down for the count in these stories.

828
01:00:40.920 --> 01:00:42.300
It just happens so regularly.

829
01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:43.739
And you would never do it now.

830
01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:48.480
I mean, the new Doctor Who doesn't have scenes where human beings shoot one another with guns.

831
01:00:48.539 --> 01:00:49.199
No, that's true.

832
01:00:49.260 --> 01:00:51.960
It always is sort of fantasy violence.

833
01:00:52.019 --> 01:00:54.059
But, you know, I say this.

834
01:00:54.119 --> 01:00:57.360
Some of those shots. like the actual shootings are really.

835
01:00:57.480 --> 01:01:01.920
Really, close, like, it's literally, like, you know, less than a metre away.

836
01:01:01.980 --> 01:01:03.539
Some of them are quite...

837
01:01:03.780 --> 01:01:07.440
It's because they're villains and it's kind of okay because they're evil.

838
01:01:07.500 --> 01:01:13.380
And so the moral, that the moral philosophy of the story kind of informs that.

839
01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:20.519
And the other thing that it does is that it divorces good and evil from ideas of like human behaviour.

840
01:01:20.639 --> 01:01:26.460
So the doctor can be obnoxious, he can, you know, like threaten Mike Yates.

841
01:01:26.519 --> 01:01:31.619
He can be just sort of deeply selfish and unpleasant, but the camera machine still recognises him as good.

842
01:01:32.039 --> 01:01:38.760
You know, there is something to be said for keeping a pure heart, Joe. The killer machine recognises Barnum as good.

843
01:01:38.820 --> 01:01:40.260
The killer machine still attacks the doctor.

844
01:01:40.679 --> 01:01:45.840
In episode 5, it goes after Maler instead of Joe on the doctor.

845
01:01:45.900 --> 01:01:49.500
Yeah, because perhaps because there are more evil impulses.

846
01:01:49.559 --> 01:02:01.500
But I start to wonder now, if when the doctor makes his comments at the beginning of the story, it depends what you mean by progress, if he's not referring to exactly what you're talking about, that evil is just not a matter of the evil impulse in your brain.

847
01:02:01.559 --> 01:02:04.860
Because I think the doctor realises everyone has those evil impulses.

848
01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:09.539
Even Professor Ketchering, who's running the machine, obviously has the evil impulses because the machine is able to affect it.

849
01:02:09.599 --> 01:02:16.500
So what if the doctor is not saying, I support hanging people, but he's actually saying psychology is more complex than this.

850
01:02:16.559 --> 01:02:26.460
Yeah, except that it does just seem to be a sort of curmudgeonly reactionary kind of response to dealing with prisoners in anything other than a sort of punitive way, I think.

851
01:02:26.519 --> 01:02:43.440
I don't, I mean, you know, like, I think you could imagine a reading where the doctor didn't side with the moral philosophy that was being presented, but in a story context, there really are evil impulses that can be extracted from your brain, turning into a loveable saint.

852
01:02:43.500 --> 01:02:44.519
Do you know what I mean?

853
01:02:44.579 --> 01:02:46.260
That that actually happens in the story.

854
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:48.960
So I don't think I don't think he's critiquing that.

855
01:02:49.380 --> 01:03:08.039
Coming back to um, the Star Trek idea on that, uh, a Star Trek episode that had gone out at this point is the enemy within. which very early Star Trek episode in which Captain Kirk is divided by the transporter into his good self and his evil self, and they need each other to survive.

856
01:03:08.099 --> 01:03:09.179
They hug.

857
01:03:09.239 --> 01:03:12.360
Everything at the end is sold by a hug on the transporter pad.

858
01:03:12.420 --> 01:03:14.880
But I hope I never get to watch that.

859
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:20.099
Shatner camps it up fabulously as evil shadow.

860
01:03:20.159 --> 01:03:20.880
Oh, yeah, God.

861
01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:26.579
Evil, evil, evil Shatner is up there with Malen Tekker in time lash for terms of evil.

862
01:03:26.639 --> 01:03:30.300
He's a good chat that he's kind of incompetent without evil Shatner or something.

863
01:03:30.360 --> 01:03:31.079
Yeah, yeah.

864
01:03:31.139 --> 01:03:32.340
So, well, I mean...

865
01:03:32.340 --> 01:03:42.239
It's hunting is quite interesting because the master who I've spoken very much about thus far. actually has to turn to the doctor to solve his problem with the actual Keller machine creature.

866
01:03:42.300 --> 01:03:46.139
Um, and sort of like, well, maybe can't you actually do it yourself?

867
01:03:46.199 --> 01:03:48.300
Like, you know, just like the 2nd time.

868
01:03:49.260 --> 01:03:53.519
This is the 2nd time you brought an alien here and you stuffed it up again.

869
01:03:53.579 --> 01:04:00.300
It's like a child saying to their parent, look, I know I said I'd look after this dog, but it's peeing everywhere.

870
01:04:00.360 --> 01:04:02.039
Can you help?

871
01:04:02.099 --> 01:04:03.659
And it's like, no, use it.

872
01:04:03.719 --> 01:04:09.059
Can I talk about his absolute hero moment in the story, which is in episode three.

873
01:04:09.119 --> 01:04:19.320
He is in the car and he's being driven around by his chauffeur and he appears to stretch over and turn the incidental music off.

874
01:04:19.380 --> 01:04:21.300
Like, it's on.

875
01:04:21.300 --> 01:04:26.280
You think it's the incidental music, but it turns out that it's, it's, it's digetic.

876
01:04:26.340 --> 01:04:28.980
And he actually is able to turn it off.

877
01:04:28.980 --> 01:04:33.599
And it does that thing where the master is in control of the program.

878
01:04:33.659 --> 01:04:36.659
It just makes him look, you know, more powerful than the director.

879
01:04:36.719 --> 01:04:38.699
What I absolutely love.

880
01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:46.199
What I absolutely love about that as well is it's just after he's installed the bug on the phone line outside unit where he can't actually be seen.

881
01:04:46.260 --> 01:04:47.280
You know, he's got that hat on.

882
01:04:47.340 --> 01:04:51.179
He's got that scarf on, but he still feels the need to put on one of his little rubber disguises.

883
01:04:51.239 --> 01:04:52.860
No, he just does that to relax.

884
01:04:52.920 --> 01:04:54.059
Yeah, like this twitch.

885
01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:55.139
It's a face pack.

886
01:04:56.400 --> 01:05:02.039
But of course, that's part of the audience identifying that character with the audience and what he...

887
01:05:02.099 --> 01:05:04.679
And that's part of his whole modus operanda, you know.

888
01:05:04.739 --> 01:05:09.659
And as if he wasn't already evil enough, it appears he's a Tottenham Hotspur fan, dodging by the scarf.

889
01:05:09.719 --> 01:05:10.800
There you are.

890
01:05:10.860 --> 01:05:14.880
And he also gets to smoke that big cigar in the back of the...

891
01:05:14.940 --> 01:05:16.199
He's just so good.

892
01:05:16.260 --> 01:05:19.260
And there's just a wonderful scene being in episode four.

893
01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:25.739
There's some really nice poetry Delgado scenes when they're in the prison in the cell and with Joe Grant.

894
01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:27.119
Lovely to see you, Miss Grant.

895
01:05:27.179 --> 01:05:27.780
I just love that.

896
01:05:27.840 --> 01:05:36.179
In fact, I think that Pertuy is vastly more obnoxious than the master who's never less than unfailingly polite.

897
01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:43.739
There is, that also reminds me, and Sandifer brings up this scene, and I also think it's a real highlight, and it is, it's episode five.

898
01:05:43.800 --> 01:05:54.239
The master comes into the cell and Joe and the doctor are playing drafts, checkers, and like they kind of hold up their finger and make the master wait.

899
01:05:54.300 --> 01:06:05.820
But the genus of the moment is, of course, that Joe beats the doctor at Czechos and just takes all of his pieces, you know, one after the other and he has some obnoxious dismissive thing to say, but it is terribly sweet.

900
01:06:05.820 --> 01:06:07.679
And it goes to show how great Joe is.

901
01:06:07.739 --> 01:06:12.539
And Joe, of course, foils the prison riot single-handed in episode three.

902
01:06:12.599 --> 01:06:13.380
That's right.

903
01:06:13.440 --> 01:06:17.699
You know, I couldn't necessarily see Liz Shaw single-handedly doing this.

904
01:06:17.699 --> 01:06:19.559
The fact that she's a trained agent.

905
01:06:19.619 --> 01:06:22.860
She, you know, she, She gets the gun and she's got the gun.

906
01:06:22.920 --> 01:06:27.239
Like she actually whacks somebody out and she and she actually holds that pistol and it's actually great to see.

907
01:06:27.300 --> 01:06:35.099
I mean, she sort of gets sidelined a bit in the 1st two episodes, but then the whole next two episodes with the whole prison ride and getting captured and released and that.

908
01:06:35.159 --> 01:06:36.420
She's actually taking an active part.

909
01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:37.679
She's the only female there.

910
01:06:37.739 --> 01:06:39.719
It's actually quite...

911
01:06:39.719 --> 01:06:40.320
Tiresome?

912
01:06:40.380 --> 01:06:46.079
Oh, I actually thought I was going to say it's a bit tense because she is the only female and this is a male prison.

913
01:06:46.139 --> 01:06:50.219
Yeah, I actually wondered because that is slightly yucky, that thought, isn't it?

914
01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:52.559
And it does, you do have it as you're watching it.

915
01:06:52.619 --> 01:06:54.119
They don't seem to want to put it there.

916
01:06:54.179 --> 01:07:00.239
Although Mela does blow her a kiss. as he leaves the cell at some point in a really aggressive and unpleasant way.

917
01:07:00.239 --> 01:07:06.900
But, you know, since it's still a kid's show, even though this is a bit more adult, a bit more like season seven.

918
01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:11.639
It's still a kid show, so it's not going to really go there explicitly, I think.

919
01:07:11.699 --> 01:07:24.119
I, I do, when I said Tyson, I do, I do think that, oh, I guess you've got, I guess you've got Chin Li, but this is a sausage fest, this story, isn't it?

920
01:07:24.179 --> 01:07:25.380
There aren't very many women at all.

921
01:07:25.440 --> 01:07:27.840
No, I mean, that's why you've got...

922
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:35.099
Sorry, that's why you've got Corporal Belling there to try and give that balance, but you're quite right, you know, it's very male dominated.

923
01:07:35.159 --> 01:07:38.340
It wouldn't, it wouldn't pass the back, backadale test, for instance.

924
01:07:38.400 --> 01:07:40.739
No, because 2 women never talk.

925
01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:41.400
No, exactly.

926
01:07:41.460 --> 01:07:44.400
Joe and Joe and Captain Chinley never actually meet.

927
01:07:44.579 --> 01:07:48.179
Corporal Bell and Chinley are in the same room, but don't talk.

928
01:07:48.300 --> 01:07:56.940
But I really like towards the end of the story in part 5 is the fact that the brigadier actually has to play cockney because he's there.

929
01:07:57.119 --> 01:07:59.699
Yes, the provisions driver.

930
01:07:59.760 --> 01:08:08.579
It's really great to see Nick Courtney doing something different and seeing that the brigadier can get there, can get involved, and is not just desk bound.

931
01:08:08.639 --> 01:08:16.199
And obviously in part 6 as we get to the conclusion of the story, he has to leave acting Governor Benton in charge.

932
01:08:16.260 --> 01:08:17.819
And I actually really like it.

933
01:08:17.880 --> 01:08:18.960
See how band he turned his hand?

934
01:08:19.020 --> 01:08:20.460
Yeah, because he gets attacked.

935
01:08:20.520 --> 01:08:33.180
Well, that's because we have the whole missile business where the missile was attacked where we've got that wonderful stunt where the 2 lead drivers on the motorbikes decide to do some sort of somersault thing before them actually even attacked.

936
01:08:33.600 --> 01:08:41.819
And then everybody seems to get shot, but Bitten survives, and of course, Mike Yates is in charge of it thinking, oh, yes. here we go again, Yates.

937
01:08:41.939 --> 01:08:53.520
But then he gets on the motorcycle and, you know, drives off to, um, the hideout of the master and the prison guards and, which gives him that wonderful confrontation with the master we were talking about earlier.

938
01:08:54.239 --> 01:08:58.920
I think it's time for a couple of observations from Rod, this story.

939
01:08:58.979 --> 01:08:59.880
Oh really?

940
01:08:59.939 --> 01:09:04.800
Roy actually made a really interesting observation on the story, which I had never thought of.

941
01:09:05.100 --> 01:09:10.380
And it relates to the Keller machine because of course, when we get to see the inside of the Keller machine.

942
01:09:10.439 --> 01:09:15.239
It's a green one-eyed blob that feeds on hate.

943
01:09:15.300 --> 01:09:20.520
Rod fully expected in episode 6, that it was going to be revealed to be a darlic mutant.

944
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:22.619
I thought that'd be a wonderful idea.

945
01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:30.840
They, you know, they ended up trying to do that in the 80s with the unmade story, the elite, which has now been recorded by a big finish.

946
01:09:30.899 --> 01:09:34.079
But yeah, it's like, why did I never think of that?

947
01:09:34.140 --> 01:09:34.920
So that was a good one.

948
01:09:34.979 --> 01:09:37.619
Rod's other observation was, I'm getting a bit sick of the master.

949
01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:39.420
I'm hoping it doesn't turn up in every story this season.

950
01:09:39.479 --> 01:09:41.939
Yeah, that'd be terrible. stupid idea.

951
01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:44.880
Well, you know, we've had the 1st story had to be introduced here.

952
01:09:44.939 --> 01:09:46.619
He's come back for the sequel, right?

953
01:09:46.680 --> 01:09:50.279
And then saving me a year later. carry on.

954
01:09:50.340 --> 01:09:58.020
Yes, the timing of that, you know, he would have had to set up a lot of this stuff before he actually arrived in the previous story, you know.

955
01:09:58.079 --> 01:09:59.100
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

956
01:09:59.159 --> 01:10:02.520
So he arrives with that alien thing, then has a bit of a go with some autons.

957
01:10:02.579 --> 01:10:06.479
Yeah, kind of comes back to it, plan B. So he had 7 fail plans.

958
01:10:06.539 --> 01:10:12.960
He would have been a bit disappointed had any one of them succeeded because he wouldn't have had he wouldn't have got to play with the Keller machine.

959
01:10:13.020 --> 01:10:20.939
Yes, and he also had to, of course, lose his dematerialisation circuit to the doctor as part of that entire planet, but he gets it back at the end of this story.

960
01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:24.119
Presumably think he's not going to be in the next one.

961
01:10:24.180 --> 01:10:24.479
Yes.

962
01:10:24.479 --> 01:10:37.260
Well, we, well, we don't know, but the fact is, again, it's part of this legacy of Doctor Who that's being presented where this deometrization thing is being ceded into various episodes, the doctors repairing it, the master needs it.

963
01:10:37.319 --> 01:10:44.640
You know, the audience is suddenly becoming aware of this sort of history of the show, you know, like never before.

964
01:10:44.699 --> 01:10:55.619
And we're going to see in the cause of access that we're going to get one step further to, you know, the TARDIS coming back and all these elements, you know, returning to the show after being absent for quite some time.

965
01:10:55.680 --> 01:10:59.399
I think I preferred the fluid leak to the team serial.

966
01:10:59.460 --> 01:11:02.100
You could zap things with the fluid link.

967
01:11:02.159 --> 01:11:02.399
Yeah.

968
01:11:02.460 --> 01:11:03.000
Yeah, yeah.

969
01:11:12.060 --> 01:11:14.819
So, we move into what's this one called?

970
01:11:14.880 --> 01:11:16.619
Is it the cause of accessors?

971
01:11:16.619 --> 01:11:18.060
Is it the vampire from space?

972
01:11:18.119 --> 01:11:20.460
Is it Bernard Holly can't see in this cost?

973
01:11:20.460 --> 01:11:21.359
You'd get me out of here.

974
01:11:21.420 --> 01:11:22.380
I don't know.

975
01:11:22.439 --> 01:11:28.140
Um, and just as this is happening, deal with snow, we're looking outside, and there are freak weather conditions across the whole area.

976
01:11:28.199 --> 01:11:31.380
Who are, who are, who are?

977
01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:33.720
I believe this is yours.

978
01:11:33.779 --> 01:11:42.060
So you kind of get this impression, in fact, that the alien invasion is sort of a staple of Doctor Who is something that's been going for a long time.

979
01:11:42.119 --> 01:11:44.460
That's exactly what I was going to say about the story.

980
01:11:44.579 --> 01:11:49.619
Yeah, this is an alien invasion, but they are actually surprisingly rare, aren't they?

981
01:11:49.680 --> 01:11:53.699
So we actually really normally only get one alien invasion a year.

982
01:11:53.760 --> 01:11:57.779
That's actually probably less than sort of in RTD's era.

983
01:11:57.840 --> 01:12:02.699
And this one begins exactly the same way as Spearhead from Space did a year earlier.

984
01:12:02.760 --> 01:12:07.739
So it's 2 unit people tracking, you know, some kind of meteorite thing.

985
01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:12.899
And I guess this is what we were led to expect from the invasion, I guess, and the web of fear.

986
01:12:12.960 --> 01:12:17.939
We just thought unit would be dealing with alien menaces, but they don't really actually do that.

987
01:12:18.180 --> 01:12:21.060
So this has to be the weirdest Doctor Who story.

988
01:12:21.119 --> 01:12:22.859
We're just looking Doctor Who story so far.

989
01:12:22.920 --> 01:12:23.880
Would you say so?

990
01:12:23.939 --> 01:12:32.100
Because I was actually going to say about the story, that we were talking about this season is the season that sets up the archetype for Doctor Who.

991
01:12:32.159 --> 01:12:36.479
I think it's sort of distilled in this story, this is the archetype for Doctor Who.

992
01:12:36.539 --> 01:12:40.380
We have aliens but there is something we don't know about them.

993
01:12:40.500 --> 01:12:48.659
Sometimes the aliens we have in Doctor Who just turn up and say, we are going to take over your planet, but there's always some kind of twist or reveal with them, just like there are with the axons here.

994
01:12:49.079 --> 01:12:55.859
I think this really sets the template for much of what we're going to get over the next 20 seasons, this story.

995
01:12:55.920 --> 01:12:58.319
But visually, do you know what I mean?

996
01:12:58.380 --> 01:13:00.180
It's something that we've absolutely never seen.

997
01:13:00.239 --> 01:13:01.739
It's so crazy looking.

998
01:13:01.800 --> 01:13:04.500
Oh, the whole inside of the Axos.

999
01:13:04.560 --> 01:13:12.060
Yeah, but just sort of everything, you know, like um, you've got the eye of Axos, which is, you know, the rudest looking alien we've had so far.

1000
01:13:12.119 --> 01:13:12.779
Yes.

1001
01:13:12.779 --> 01:13:17.579
Yeah, it's up there with the vervoids and Alva Centauri, I think, is...

1002
01:13:17.579 --> 01:13:18.359
Really?

1003
01:13:18.420 --> 01:13:22.140
I just look at it as a big iron stalk, and I've never thought of it as anything else.

1004
01:13:22.500 --> 01:13:25.380
Honestly, maybe it's just me.

1005
01:13:25.439 --> 01:13:26.760
It might just be me.

1006
01:13:26.819 --> 01:13:28.739
It's a rato, I have problems.

1007
01:13:29.039 --> 01:13:36.479
But, you know, like the doorways are kind of a bit organic and a bit icky and sort of proto-geeger sort of thing.

1008
01:13:36.539 --> 01:13:39.119
Everything sort of is breathing.

1009
01:13:39.239 --> 01:13:42.359
But there's also these sort of weird video effects as well.

1010
01:13:42.420 --> 01:14:03.239
So remember the Axon man with his weird revolving head in episode 3 where his head is just kind of revolving for no reason and the monsters all appear using CSO rather than just sort of rollback and mix, you know, and then, of course, there's the, you know, notorious attack duvet at the end of episode three.

1011
01:14:04.380 --> 01:14:09.180
I'm sorry, I'm just, I'm just, yes, I can just visualise that attack, do that.

1012
01:14:09.239 --> 01:14:12.840
Again, Star Trek had been on recently, The Horter from the Devil in the dark.

1013
01:14:12.899 --> 01:14:14.220
It is crumblier though.

1014
01:14:14.279 --> 01:14:15.000
I never water that.

1015
01:14:15.060 --> 01:14:15.359
Oh yeah.

1016
01:14:15.420 --> 01:14:17.699
But I like the revolving head of the act.

1017
01:14:17.760 --> 01:14:18.239
Oh yeah, yeah.

1018
01:14:18.300 --> 01:14:23.039
I like that overlay that they put in that it's psychedelic effect in the Axos station.

1019
01:14:23.100 --> 01:14:24.060
I think that's great.

1020
01:14:24.060 --> 01:14:24.779
It's really weird.

1021
01:14:24.779 --> 01:14:28.500
And it is doing and it's television sort of effects as well.

1022
01:14:28.560 --> 01:14:29.399
Do you know what I mean?

1023
01:14:29.460 --> 01:14:36.000
It's using videotape and CSO and all of those sorts of things that TV uses and film doesn't really.

1024
01:14:36.060 --> 01:14:40.260
And so it creates this, you know, very, very strange look.

1025
01:14:40.319 --> 01:14:46.560
And the show won't go, I think, quite as far as this again, but it is really kind of remarkable looking.

1026
01:14:46.619 --> 01:14:49.079
It's Michael Ferguson, again, isn't it?

1027
01:14:49.140 --> 01:14:51.420
It is, and I think it actually does a great job.

1028
01:14:51.479 --> 01:14:55.979
There's some wonderful shots in the 1st episode where you've got the entire cast.

1029
01:14:56.279 --> 01:14:58.500
And they're all framed.

1030
01:14:58.619 --> 01:15:04.920
Like, they're all in the shot in different positions, and it happens not once it happens, you know, a number of times in the big sets that he's got.

1031
01:15:04.979 --> 01:15:06.840
And he manages to get them all in.

1032
01:15:06.960 --> 01:15:09.539
It's actually really interesting to see what he's doing.

1033
01:15:09.600 --> 01:15:20.340
He also does his signature shot, which is the looming monster on film with the sun behind them, which is sort of previously with the ambassadors of death and with the on in the seeds of death.

1034
01:15:20.399 --> 01:15:22.439
And so here he does it with an axe on as well.

1035
01:15:22.500 --> 01:15:25.319
So visually, it's really interesting.

1036
01:15:25.380 --> 01:15:29.520
Like you said, it's an alien invasion that kind of sets the template for alien invasions to come.

1037
01:15:29.579 --> 01:15:34.319
But gosh, the characters are all, without exception, utterly terrible.

1038
01:15:34.500 --> 01:15:36.359
Oh, no.

1039
01:15:36.359 --> 01:15:37.859
I really like it.

1040
01:15:37.920 --> 01:15:38.340
Oh, come on.

1041
01:15:38.399 --> 01:15:40.380
They've got Mr. Chin, or as I like to know.

1042
01:15:40.439 --> 01:15:41.699
Do you mean Colonel Sanders?

1043
01:15:43.319 --> 01:15:47.100
You've got Mr. Chin, who I think is hilarious.

1044
01:15:47.159 --> 01:15:48.539
Even he's chicken.

1045
01:15:48.600 --> 01:15:54.239
And I like his superior, who's got his resignation ready to go. comedy goal.

1046
01:15:54.359 --> 01:16:00.359
He speaks to the, he speaks to the, so Chin is ringing up his superior and says that, shall I scramble, sir?

1047
01:16:00.420 --> 01:16:02.279
And the guy says, no, gin.

1048
01:16:02.340 --> 01:16:04.439
I am sure your report will be quite garbled enough.

1049
01:16:04.800 --> 01:16:15.539
So all, like, I'm not saying it's not funny and it's not entertaining, but all of the characters just, just sort of massively overdrawn and kind of overacted and stuff.

1050
01:16:15.600 --> 01:16:17.520
She was terrible.

1051
01:16:17.579 --> 01:16:19.680
Yeah, Bill Final.

1052
01:16:19.739 --> 01:16:20.699
What's he even doing there?

1053
01:16:20.760 --> 01:16:21.539
It is very strange.

1054
01:16:21.600 --> 01:16:23.760
What section of liaising?

1055
01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:26.220
The CIA are amazing with unit about the movie.

1056
01:16:26.279 --> 01:16:28.560
Oh, no, no, but I mean, what's he doing from a story standpoint?

1057
01:16:28.619 --> 01:16:32.159
Is he's trying to be the male lead or something?

1058
01:16:32.220 --> 01:16:43.260
Well, you know, I think, you know, he's this American cowboy who's come in to investigate what's happened with the master and the American ambassador in the previous story, I would presume.

1059
01:16:43.319 --> 01:16:45.239
And he's really blokey bloke.

1060
01:16:45.300 --> 01:16:47.760
You know, he flirts with Joe right at the beginning there.

1061
01:16:47.819 --> 01:16:49.680
She hasn't had she hasn't had this before.

1062
01:16:49.739 --> 01:16:52.319
You know, she's more convincing than Richard Franklin.

1063
01:16:52.439 --> 01:16:52.739
Correct.

1064
01:16:52.800 --> 01:16:55.140
She only had all these British Toshes.

1065
01:16:55.199 --> 01:16:57.119
He has a remarkably charmed life.

1066
01:16:57.180 --> 01:17:02.399
I mean, the accents could have killed him, not once, but twice in this story and he manages to survive.

1067
01:17:02.460 --> 01:17:04.560
I actually quite liked the fact that he's that gun.

1068
01:17:04.619 --> 01:17:08.159
So these obviously had a great respect for sideburns.

1069
01:17:08.220 --> 01:17:09.779
Well, that could be it.

1070
01:17:09.840 --> 01:17:12.420
I mean, I just, I think that I think he's probably there.

1071
01:17:12.479 --> 01:17:19.380
You know how in the empty child, the doctor dancers, the doctor gets contrasted with a more traditional American sort of style hero.

1072
01:17:19.439 --> 01:17:20.399
Do you know what I mean?

1073
01:17:20.460 --> 01:17:23.100
Gun, so he's a bit sexier and all of that sort of thing.

1074
01:17:23.220 --> 01:17:32.880
And they're clearly doing this with Bill Finer, but the actor himself is so kind of hideous that that really kind of hugely undermines his kind of leading man credibility, I think.

1075
01:17:33.000 --> 01:17:40.859
I think he looks like a lot of Americans and people of the early 1970s with the sideburns and the chest here and that sort of thing.

1076
01:17:40.920 --> 01:17:44.100
If you look at any magazines from that time, that's the man's man.

1077
01:17:44.220 --> 01:17:45.420
And certainly...

1078
01:17:45.420 --> 01:17:46.979
I don't really look at any magazines from that time.

1079
01:17:47.100 --> 01:17:59.939
Well, neither do I, but I'm just saying that, you know, I think I think also he's heavily based on some of the ITC programs at the time, things like the persuaders, the champions, he's that kind of figure.

1080
01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:02.039
And yet he is spoofing them a bit.

1081
01:18:02.100 --> 01:18:08.699
It's doctor who's trying to go, oh, look, we're better than this because he goes along, he doesn't listen to the doctor. he gets captures the 1st chance he gets.

1082
01:18:08.760 --> 01:18:14.220
But I also think he is quite a comedic character deliberately in his own right as well.

1083
01:18:14.279 --> 01:18:19.199
There's that great bit where the doctor almost kills him instead of the axe on duplicate.

1084
01:18:19.260 --> 01:18:24.300
And the doctor realises his mistake because Filer calls him Doc.

1085
01:18:24.359 --> 01:18:27.659
And afterwards, Doc says, are you all right?

1086
01:18:27.720 --> 01:18:29.220
And he says, yes, are you sure?

1087
01:18:29.279 --> 01:18:30.659
And he actually thinks about it.

1088
01:18:30.720 --> 01:18:32.880
Yeah, neat, yeah, good.

1089
01:18:32.939 --> 01:18:40.079
And there's also that wonderful line, he has when he wakes up in hospital saying, could one of you Florence Nightingales, please get me my trousers.

1090
01:18:40.979 --> 01:18:55.260
Which is, you know, it's pure carry on and I think Barry Letts has learned his lesson a little bit about CSO because I think if you'd made the story at the beginning of the year, We would have had a CSO hospital ward behind him, whereas we've just got a flat with a bet this time.

1091
01:18:55.319 --> 01:18:58.619
He's realised, oh yeah, I've got studio flat so I can use.

1092
01:18:58.680 --> 01:19:00.779
Roger Delgado.

1093
01:19:00.840 --> 01:19:03.000
I think it's, again, a great performance.

1094
01:19:03.060 --> 01:19:05.399
He gets to do something different with the master.

1095
01:19:05.460 --> 01:19:06.840
He forced to work with unit.

1096
01:19:06.899 --> 01:19:08.520
He's great in it too.

1097
01:19:08.579 --> 01:19:10.199
I mean, he takes the doctor roles.

1098
01:19:10.260 --> 01:19:14.939
So the doctor's off and he's like, he's charming and and clever.

1099
01:19:15.000 --> 01:19:23.399
Those scenes with him and Sir George, the line where he goes, you know, like I think he's going to blow up the, the, you know, the whole power public.

1100
01:19:23.460 --> 01:19:30.899
And he goes, oh, I suppose you could take the normal precautions against nuclear blast, like a sticky tape on the windows and that sort of thing.

1101
01:19:30.960 --> 01:19:33.239
Like, he's so, he's wonderful.

1102
01:19:33.300 --> 01:19:37.380
And poetry has been at his most obnoxious all story.

1103
01:19:37.439 --> 01:19:47.159
So he's been yelling at Chin and yelling at the brigadier and like fighting with Windsor and being like just completely awful to him as well.

1104
01:19:47.220 --> 01:19:53.520
Again, having the master in this story, it's great because it's focussed on the fact that the doctor doesn't have his TARDIS.

1105
01:19:53.640 --> 01:19:56.460
The master doesn't have his tartars.

1106
01:19:56.520 --> 01:20:03.180
Then who is the character that actually gets to go inside the doctor's tires for the 1st time in the season and a half .

1107
01:20:03.239 --> 01:20:04.199
Oh the master.

1108
01:20:04.319 --> 01:20:04.859
The master.

1109
01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:06.359
He's really unimpressed.

1110
01:20:06.420 --> 01:20:07.619
Very unimpressed.

1111
01:20:07.680 --> 01:20:09.000
But it's great that's reintroduced.

1112
01:20:09.060 --> 01:20:11.819
You actually then get to see both Tarnus's working partially.

1113
01:20:11.939 --> 01:20:16.079
So do we see the master in the TARDIS before we see the doctor in the tunnel?

1114
01:20:16.140 --> 01:20:16.560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1115
01:20:16.619 --> 01:20:17.819
And it's a real mess.

1116
01:20:17.880 --> 01:20:22.319
He's been redecorating and the master is fabulously dismissive about it.

1117
01:20:22.380 --> 01:20:22.859
Oh, really?

1118
01:20:23.399 --> 01:20:32.579
Which is amazing because one of the show's big conceits is we have this miraculous machine that's bigger on the inside than outside.

1119
01:20:32.640 --> 01:20:33.119
It's wonderful.

1120
01:20:33.180 --> 01:20:33.899
It's this, is that.

1121
01:20:33.960 --> 01:20:43.859
And then the villain, who is a villain that we love as the audience, we're still going, oh, you're terrible, but ooh, we like you, who comes in and says, this is rubbish.

1122
01:20:44.039 --> 01:20:46.260
That's just cardboard.

1123
01:20:46.319 --> 01:21:00.779
Yeah, he's saying what the sort of 12 and 13 year olds who are possibly getting a little bit old for the show are looking at them going and saying as well, it doesn't stop them watching it because really they still like it, but they're trying to be cool and saying look, it's cardboard.

1124
01:21:00.840 --> 01:21:03.119
Do people get too old for this show?

1125
01:21:03.180 --> 01:21:04.319
When is that gonna happen?

1126
01:21:04.619 --> 01:21:07.439
The set is terrible. you know what I mean?

1127
01:21:07.500 --> 01:21:09.119
Like, it's a tiny corner of the set.

1128
01:21:09.180 --> 01:21:13.619
You know, it's not the, you know, the massive grand heart and all console room.

1129
01:21:13.680 --> 01:21:16.979
It is, you know, just a little corner they've erected in a corner of a studio.

1130
01:21:17.039 --> 01:21:19.319
And did you notice when they opened the doors?

1131
01:21:19.380 --> 01:21:24.720
Then there's roundels outside the doors as well that never makes any sense, does it?

1132
01:21:24.779 --> 01:21:25.500
No, not at all.

1133
01:21:25.560 --> 01:21:34.680
And I'm completely forgotten about the ending where the doctor appears to be agreeing to the master's plan and then, of course, double crosses in them.

1134
01:21:34.739 --> 01:21:35.939
I actually quite like that.

1135
01:21:36.060 --> 01:21:45.000
It does give the doctor to play to his strength, which is, is to be rude to everybody, you know, before, before he departs, just to make his betrayal seem more convincing.

1136
01:21:45.060 --> 01:21:48.720
Can I talk to you about a great personal disappointment with this story?

1137
01:21:48.779 --> 01:21:50.220
Go for it.

1138
01:21:50.399 --> 01:22:00.000
Windsor, who has one of the worst lines of dialogue where he calls the doctor a stupid quack. and who is killed.

1139
01:22:00.060 --> 01:22:01.619
Is he killed by the attack Duvet?

1140
01:22:01.680 --> 01:22:04.020
No, no, he is still by an axe on.

1141
01:22:04.079 --> 01:22:06.239
Oh, no, the accent explodes.

1142
01:22:06.300 --> 01:22:07.260
The axonite explode.

1143
01:22:07.319 --> 01:22:11.100
Pretty much because the doctors put the X in the particle accelerator and set it off.

1144
01:22:11.159 --> 01:22:16.920
When Windsor goes over the particle accelerator, he's like broken down like pigbin Joshua's.

1145
01:22:16.979 --> 01:22:18.300
So...

1146
01:22:18.359 --> 01:22:22.920
So his his is a really terrible performance and more overacting and stuff.

1147
01:22:22.979 --> 01:22:24.119
And do you know who it is?

1148
01:22:24.180 --> 01:22:24.899
Yeah, I do.

1149
01:22:24.960 --> 01:22:25.739
Yeah.

1150
01:22:25.739 --> 01:22:27.239
It's Carstairs.

1151
01:22:27.300 --> 01:22:29.579
It's from the War Games, who was lovely.

1152
01:22:29.640 --> 01:22:30.659
Cr stairs, yes.

1153
01:22:30.720 --> 01:22:31.859
And he's awful in this.

1154
01:22:31.920 --> 01:22:41.760
And I guess, I guess the thing that I don't like about it, like I liked, you know, we talked about the comic street thing in terms of the autons and how fun and successful this was.

1155
01:22:41.819 --> 01:22:49.800
I think all of the characters are so so grotesque and so overplayed that it kind of undermines it a little bit.

1156
01:22:49.859 --> 01:22:51.420
And I think the other thing too.

1157
01:22:51.479 --> 01:22:55.920
And this is something that Sandra identifies as a big problem with Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

1158
01:22:55.979 --> 01:22:57.180
This is their 1st grid.

1159
01:22:57.239 --> 01:22:58.020
Yeah, yeah.

1160
01:22:58.079 --> 01:23:02.279
And they'll go on to be old hands of the series and they'll be writing for it long after they've stopped being any good.

1161
01:23:02.340 --> 01:23:08.880
And the problem is that they just have too many ideas and they don't follow any of them up.

1162
01:23:08.939 --> 01:23:19.020
So it looks like it's going to be, you know, like a very straightforward Trojan horse story, you know, that the humans are tricked into sort of accepting this gift from the axons.

1163
01:23:19.079 --> 01:23:38.520
But here we have sort of axos and then we have, there's a cyclotron and then there's a, you know, the power complex and then there's filer and then there's a double of filer and then there's some sort of bizarre thriller thing, political thriller thing about England keeping axe and eye to itself and not telling anyone else and, you know, then the doctor abandoning everyone and teaming up with the master.

1164
01:23:38.640 --> 01:23:45.899
There's just sort of nothing gets developed and it all just, there just seems to be sort of too much in it, I think.

1165
01:23:46.020 --> 01:23:48.239
It's undisciplined.

1166
01:23:48.300 --> 01:23:49.439
Absolutely.

1167
01:23:49.500 --> 01:23:50.460
It reminds me.

1168
01:23:50.520 --> 01:24:05.699
Or perhaps it informed a scene from the comedy black books, in which Bernard and Manning are trying to write a children's book, and you cut away from them as they start planning, and then you cut back and mainly say, okay, okay, okay, okay.

1169
01:24:05.760 --> 01:24:13.560
But perhaps instead of the butcher and his composer daughter and the boyfriend that the butcher doesn't really approve of.

1170
01:24:13.619 --> 01:24:16.680
Perhaps instead of them, the character can be an elephant.

1171
01:24:16.739 --> 01:24:22.739
And perhaps instead of the backdrop of the salon is purges and them attempting to escape from St.

1172
01:24:22.739 --> 01:24:23.340
Petersburg.

1173
01:24:23.399 --> 01:24:25.319
Perhaps he's lost his blue.

1174
01:24:25.380 --> 01:24:28.979
Yes, that's really what needed to happen.

1175
01:24:29.039 --> 01:24:30.300
We needed Manny in there.

1176
01:24:30.359 --> 01:24:34.800
Maybe put an elephant in it, just kind of simplify a little bit.

1177
01:24:34.859 --> 01:24:36.239
So it's a frog.

1178
01:24:36.300 --> 01:24:39.359
So it just means you need to be paired back a bit.

1179
01:24:39.420 --> 01:24:58.140
Well, the thing is, it already was because the original plotline is the ship, the ship, which is shaped like a giant skull, crashes in Hyde Park, so they wanted the story to be in Hyde Park, and all this stuff was in it, and pretty much Barry Lance wrote back to them saying, boys, it's a wonderful thrilling story.

1180
01:24:58.260 --> 01:25:00.600
If we had the budget for a feature film.

1181
01:25:00.720 --> 01:25:03.840
And so there was a giant carrot in it. okay.

1182
01:25:03.899 --> 01:25:06.479
So it was like, it was literally that situation.

1183
01:25:06.539 --> 01:25:11.220
So perhaps instead of Hyde Park, we can have an abandoned field in Skegness.

1184
01:25:11.279 --> 01:25:21.840
You see, and that's the other thing too, and it's something that they do again in hand of fear, which is why I'm going to disagree with you when that comes up, depending how much I hate it, is that it's not set really in the real world at all.

1185
01:25:21.960 --> 01:25:25.260
This is what, you know, pig binge Josh is the real world.

1186
01:25:25.260 --> 01:25:30.720
And then everything else is this stupid power complex and, and, you know, like the brigade is office and stuff.

1187
01:25:30.779 --> 01:25:39.479
And we don't, like, are the people on earth, like are the people in supermarkets and buskies and stuff, even aware that Axos has landed. you know, no one really cares.

1188
01:25:39.539 --> 01:25:46.979
Yeah, I'm like when the autons break through the window on the high street, you know, people are aware of that, the disease hits Marlerbone station.

1189
01:25:47.039 --> 01:25:53.520
Yeah, yeah, that everyone's watching Mars Probe 7 trying to link up on television. people are aware of all that.

1190
01:25:53.579 --> 01:25:57.180
But we are moving away from that level of grittiness.

1191
01:25:57.239 --> 01:25:58.319
And perhaps we are losing something there.

1192
01:25:58.380 --> 01:26:02.579
Yeah, no, I think I think it is it is a bit of a giant mess, unfortunately.

1193
01:26:02.640 --> 01:26:05.460
I quite enjoyed the mess.

1194
01:26:05.520 --> 01:26:13.800
Like it moved along and there were a number of, you know, sequences that I really enjoyed from Roger Delgado jumping on top of a moving truck.

1195
01:26:13.859 --> 01:26:15.060
I'm sure that was here.

1196
01:26:15.119 --> 01:26:17.819
I was going, gee, that's a bit, you know?

1197
01:26:17.880 --> 01:26:34.140
And then, you know, then we get Benjamin Yates in the truck in episode four, I think, aren't they being attacked by all the axons and then and the blue sheet and Mike decides to blow up the van with his grenade and they have to jump for it.

1198
01:26:34.199 --> 01:26:37.380
So there's a bit of action stuff happening and I have a graphic.

1199
01:26:37.439 --> 01:26:38.579
Almost certainly.

1200
01:26:38.699 --> 01:26:39.239
Yeah.

1201
01:26:39.300 --> 01:26:40.560
The time loop thing.

1202
01:26:40.619 --> 01:26:41.460
Does that make any sense to you?

1203
01:26:41.819 --> 01:26:46.079
I think it does, but it does.

1204
01:26:46.199 --> 01:26:46.859
It is Doctor Who.

1205
01:26:46.920 --> 01:26:47.819
I mean, do you know what I mean?

1206
01:26:47.880 --> 01:26:50.939
It doesn't make sense in the way they explain it.

1207
01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:56.699
It only makes sense once, you know, you're a bit more familiar with science fiction. and have seen time loops and other things.

1208
01:26:57.479 --> 01:27:09.300
All we really needed to see, well, something on the axon ship, where the same few seconds played out over and over again, like we'll see later in Meglos, like we see in quite a few episodes of Star Trek.

1209
01:27:09.359 --> 01:27:13.439
That's the sort of standard acceptance of what a time loop is in sci-fi.

1210
01:27:13.500 --> 01:27:17.579
And if we just had that, you know, I think that would have made the idea a lot clearer.

1211
01:27:17.640 --> 01:27:22.920
Well, I mean, it just needs to be a trap that the doctor can get Axos into using the TARDIS.

1212
01:27:22.979 --> 01:27:24.899
And so you call it a time loop, who cares?

1213
01:27:24.960 --> 01:27:25.619
Do you know what I mean?

1214
01:27:25.680 --> 01:27:29.760
Um, it could have been a time shoe box or, you know.

1215
01:27:29.939 --> 01:27:31.680
No, forget.

1216
01:27:31.739 --> 01:27:32.340
I said that.

1217
01:27:32.399 --> 01:27:32.939
Do you know what I mean?

1218
01:27:33.000 --> 01:27:33.779
But it could have been anything.

1219
01:27:33.840 --> 01:27:34.199
Okay.

1220
01:27:34.260 --> 01:27:39.119
So, I don't, I don't, you know, like, I'm not surprised that they don't do a sort of loopy time thing.

1221
01:27:39.300 --> 01:27:46.439
I like the design of the axons, both in their corporal form and when they depersonalise.

1222
01:27:46.500 --> 01:27:47.760
They do have zippers.

1223
01:27:47.819 --> 01:27:49.619
Oh, that's the chance.

1224
01:27:49.680 --> 01:27:50.880
Let's have a look at the action figure.

1225
01:27:50.939 --> 01:27:51.539
I got in here.

1226
01:27:51.600 --> 01:27:54.180
Oh, there's a sort of seam there, isn't there?

1227
01:27:54.239 --> 01:27:55.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1228
01:27:55.500 --> 01:27:57.420
Come to this, dear listener.

1229
01:27:57.479 --> 01:28:00.600
We're looking at action figures on an audio podcast.

1230
01:28:00.659 --> 01:28:03.060
So who plays Axeon Man?

1231
01:28:03.119 --> 01:28:03.600
Who is that?

1232
01:28:03.659 --> 01:28:05.819
That is Bernard Holly?

1233
01:28:05.880 --> 01:28:07.979
And he's been in it before. hasn't he?

1234
01:28:08.039 --> 01:28:10.979
Yes, he was Peter Hayden in Tom of the Cyberman.

1235
01:28:11.039 --> 01:28:12.840
Was he doing the accent?

1236
01:28:12.899 --> 01:28:14.520
No, no, he wasn't one of the Americans.

1237
01:28:14.579 --> 01:28:16.260
He's the one who gets killed at the end of episode one.

1238
01:28:16.319 --> 01:28:18.060
Oh, is he the one who opens the door?

1239
01:28:18.119 --> 01:28:19.859
No, not one.

1240
01:28:19.859 --> 01:28:20.640
Oh, at the end of episode.

1241
01:28:20.699 --> 01:28:21.779
Yeah, yeah, he gets shot.

1242
01:28:21.840 --> 01:28:27.119
So he's the one who sort of paired up with Jamie and there's a bit of a broke back mountain thing going on.

1243
01:28:27.180 --> 01:28:38.399
Do you think it's kind of racist that when the axe on man says to them about the frog, I trust this is one of your food animals and they both say no.

1244
01:28:38.520 --> 01:28:43.020
They always say, you just have to hop across the English channel for it to be one of our food animals.

1245
01:28:43.079 --> 01:28:48.119
See, I think it's actually playing into the theme of Britain keeping it for themselves.

1246
01:28:48.180 --> 01:28:48.720
Britain.

1247
01:28:48.779 --> 01:28:56.760
Yeah, Britain's imperialism because Bob Baker and Dave Martin, whilst their ideas aren't very well organised, they're very good at writing on theme.

1248
01:28:56.819 --> 01:29:05.340
And I think that's why their stories are often so chaotic because all their ideas can relate that to a theme and, you know, the theme here is imperialism.

1249
01:29:05.399 --> 01:29:11.159
The axons themselves are quite imperialistic because all they care about is what they can use Earth for.

1250
01:29:11.220 --> 01:29:13.619
They don't care about pain and suffering they cause.

1251
01:29:13.680 --> 01:29:21.420
Similarly, all chin cares about is getting the concession for England so England can keep all the money or Great Britain can keep all the money.

1252
01:29:21.479 --> 01:29:26.340
And hence the doctor's obnoxious English, England for the English beach, whereas yelling at cheating.

1253
01:29:26.399 --> 01:29:26.880
Yeah, exactly.

1254
01:29:26.939 --> 01:29:28.140
That's really good, isn't it?

1255
01:29:28.199 --> 01:29:34.859
So accentite's really like sort of glass beads that you give the natives sort of thing before coming in and taking over their entire planet.

1256
01:29:34.920 --> 01:29:36.479
Yeah absolutely. yeah.

1257
01:29:36.539 --> 01:29:37.140
Lovely.

1258
01:29:49.199 --> 01:29:51.600
You're quite lost.

1259
01:29:52.199 --> 01:29:53.520
I think it is the weakest.

1260
01:29:53.579 --> 01:29:55.260
Yeah, I think that's probably it.

1261
01:29:55.319 --> 01:29:58.619
Pertui never really gets too terrible.

1262
01:29:58.619 --> 01:30:01.680
But it's never that great either.

1263
01:30:01.739 --> 01:30:06.899
So the worst, you know, I think that probably Axos is the worst story in the season, but it's not very bad.

1264
01:30:06.960 --> 01:30:08.939
No, no, it's still...

1265
01:30:09.000 --> 01:30:09.779
Yeah, still quite enjoyable.

1266
01:30:09.899 --> 01:30:14.460
I think I'm going to have to disagree on that one, but we'll find out that more about that next episode.

1267
01:30:14.520 --> 01:30:15.899
So, clearly, listener.

1268
01:30:15.960 --> 01:30:28.020
We'll be back in a fortnight, discussing the last 2 stories of this season, Colony in Space, and the Damons, as well as giving our Jenny Laird awards, and our picks of the month, but until then, thank you very much for listening and good night.

1269
01:30:28.079 --> 01:30:28.739
Good night.

1270
01:30:28.859 --> 01:30:29.819
Bye.

1271
01:30:31.380 --> 01:30:34.920
Hello, hello, flight to entirety.

1272
01:30:34.979 --> 01:30:36.600
Hello, Todd, BLB.

1273
01:30:36.659 --> 01:30:38.699
Nathan Botany, and Brandon Jones.

1274
01:30:38.760 --> 01:30:41.640
All are increasingly Baroccan stupid.

1275
01:30:41.699 --> 01:30:43.800
Sunday, 8th of February.

1276
01:30:43.859 --> 01:30:46.920
Whoa, next episode or March 1st.

1277
01:30:46.979 --> 01:30:52.739
Our flight to entire view on Facebook and iTunes, our FG podcast on Twitter.

1278
01:30:56.640 --> 01:31:04.199
And like fighting with Windsor and being like just completely awful to him as well.

1279
01:31:04.319 --> 01:31:07.319
Including that really awful bit.

1280
01:31:07.380 --> 01:31:10.079
And you know, I've been saying, oh, no, it's all character in that.

1281
01:31:10.079 --> 01:31:14.640
No, there is that really awful bit where pretty much the doctor criticises what the brigadier is going to do.

1282
01:31:14.640 --> 01:31:17.399
And Joe says, that's right. you know, what use of shooting how to go back?

1283
01:31:17.460 --> 01:31:20.939
He is your commanding officer, German, you should serve some respect. in the demons.

1284
01:31:21.000 --> 01:31:21.960
Fucker.

1285
01:31:23.279 --> 01:31:25.319
There's the credits.

1286
01:31:26.640 --> 01:31:31.380
You know, I've been compiling a list of his most obnoxious moments.