WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:41:49

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Hello, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety, the only

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Doctor Who podcast that doesn't want to set the world on fire.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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And I'm your new assistant.

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Oh, ladies and gentlemen.

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I feel the need to explain.

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Richard is having to take a step back from podcast duty slightly.

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So he will be alternating the meantime with Sir Todd Bealby, who

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joins us in the 3rd slot on the sofa.

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And what better time to give him a baptism of fire, because Todd

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terror of the autons is your story.

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Oh, wow.

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I've never experienced that before from this side of things.

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Oh, thank you, Brandon.

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I've heard that before.

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Thank you, Nathan. and thank you, Richard.

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And before I begin, obviously I want to say the more things change

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the more they stay the same.

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So, you know, although things will be different, hopefully will be

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you know, I can't hope to emulate Richard, but I will be different

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and, you know, change is a good thing.

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Hey, Richard would never have said that.

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No, no, you're already a business.

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Oh, dear.

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Help me, dear listener. help me now All right, so tear of the

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Ultrons is, yes, baptism of fire straight into it.

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Our new producer.

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Well, no, I'm not so new producer, but Barry Lex is now in control

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of the series, working with Sheron sticks on his 1st full series

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from the get go.

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And with that, of course, comes a number of changes.

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He's decided that we're going to be going for 4 episodes and 6

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episode stories.

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The 7 episodes are out the window.

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And you know, I think this is a change, certainly for the good.

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You've got more 1st nights, you know, in this season with, you

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know, with an extra story, and script wise, they're a bit easier

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to write in the 7 episode stories, and obviously, the viewers

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don't have to be engaged over 70 weeks.

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I think we found last time, didn't we, that the 7 partters?

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Well, I certainly found them increasingly tiresome, each one

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slightly worse than the previous one.

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And we did talk a little bit about the advantages of 7 partners.

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And look, you know, if the 7 partners were boring, you know, per

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twee, 6 partners from here on in are going to certainly, you know

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be pretty much equally boring.

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I think on the whole.

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But it is a much better pattern, you know, and it is precisely

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that episode one just tends to be better than the other episodes.

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And it's only marginally more expensive than what they were doing

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before.

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Yeah, and I think this year is when we start to get the pattern

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the Doctor Who would bed down in for the next 20 years of its run

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you know, the typical 4 to 6 part story arc and where we have 6

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parts, they're usually a 4 parter with a 2 parter at the end or

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vice versa.

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So, yeah, this season sort of is where Doctor Who starts being the

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Doctor Who we know from the colour era.

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But I'll be, I'll be having a bit more to say about that when we

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get to, um, clause of axos.

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I agree with you on that.

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I think the legacy of Doctor Who is actually cemented in this

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season.

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I think Barry Letts and Terrence Styx have a lot to be praised

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for.

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And I think what they do in this entire season ensures the

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longevity of the show over the next 5 years.

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I think if we had just had a repeat of season 7, the show would

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have ended here in season 8 and that would have ended, it would

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have been a quite little show.

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So, I mean, this is a, this is a soft reboot and I think I called

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it a reboot last time and it really makes quite a lot of changes

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from last year.

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So we had virtually no TARDIS last year. you know, the Tardis

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exterior only appeared in the corner of the laboratory in

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spearhead from space.

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The TARDIS exterior is back, unit wearing sort of sensible

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uniforms instead of those stupid jumpsuit things or the horrific

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yellow turtlenecks that they were wearing.

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You've got basically 6 regular cast and something that we've

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really never had before at all.

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Yeah, it is the biggest wreck of a cast opportunity's ever had.

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Very next is quite clever here.

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I mean, introducing those standard uniform. is a very clever

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ploy.

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I mean, what is the biggest comedy show on television at the

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moment?

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Oh, Richard would know.

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Richard would know.

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Dad's army.

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You know?

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So it's familiar.

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He's trying to aim it for a family audience.

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We're getting a team together that you can then choose which one

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of that team you like more or less.

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And of course, going into that means we've got a regular captain

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in terms of Captain Yates.

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You know, that's a 1st change to have that 2nd in command then.

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They've already started those changes back in season 7 with Benton

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coming back in, you know, in the last 2 stories. whether that be

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by chance or by design.

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But here, by putting a regular captain in, you've now got, you

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know, 3 people to choose from in, you know, turn to the guys.

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But, I do have to say, Yates is by far my least favourite of the 3

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regular... is terrible.

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Well, but I'll say this.

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I think his character art compared to the other 2 is actually the

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one that has the biggest change in his whole...

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Spoilers, but we're getting...

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Now, the thing is, and I'm glad I'm glad you both said that

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because it is a minor thing in Doctor Who fandom, but I've had the

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discussion many times before with people, who do you prefer?

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Captain Yates and Sergeant Benton.

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And nobody I've met has said, oh, I both like the Minkle or

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dislike Minkle.

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Someone always prefers one or the other.

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I actually prefer Captain Yates to Sergeant Benton.

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But that's just me.

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You guys obviously prefer Sergeant Benton to Captain Yates.

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And with all the things that Doctor Who fans out of you about, and

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there's a lot of them.

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This one seems to be the most good natured.

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You never sort of see flame walls online about, you know, Benton

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Gate or standards in Yates journalism.

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Well, I don't think anyone likes either of them very much.

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So maybe that's not enough to hear.

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But I do have to be just enraged on the beat and made Richard

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Franklin chuckle.

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But I don't have to say this.

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The way in which Richard Franklin sautés have to do his sautés.

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No, no, no, that's cooking.

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Sachet is up to do his 1st salute.

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I mean, honestly, unit were ahead of their time.

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There's a don't ask don't tell policy back in 1970.

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I mean, how anybody could ever think that this man was going to be

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a love interest for Joe Grant.

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I'll never know They give up on that after this story, don't

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they?

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They really do.

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And I have to say, I think that Richard Franklin looks really

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uncomfortable in many of the early scenes.

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They're really trying to put Yates into the scenes and he's

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looking down and he just, he just seems to be ill at ease in the

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role.

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In the later episodes of this story.

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He gets better and I think he, you know, been a few weeks into

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filming, he relaxes and you can see that difference.

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But in the 1st couple of episodes, he's not great.

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He's up and down that sort of thing.

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But they do try and work the character into the backstory of the

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show.

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It's really interesting The doctor says, you know, to Mike, you

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know, that he helped clean up the author.

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You know, and that's actually quite clever of, I think, of

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Terrence Dix to work this sort of stuff, then, and he does it

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quite often.

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It's history that's only like a year old.

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But, you know, the audience aren't going to know that he wasn't in

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there because there's no repeats, there's no DVDs, and they're

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just going to say, well, he's part of the team and they're going

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to accept him much easier and quicker.

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But constantly, because I'm watching a bit ahead in the pertwe

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era.

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They're referencing things like a few stories previous, that the

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audience should know, and you as an audience member sort of feel

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like, oh, I know that, and I remember that, and I feel, you know

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you're getting caught up in it and feeling part of the...

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Yeah, because even a viewer who missed that earlier Auton story.

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What that scene tells them is that there has been a previous

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invasion.

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It doesn't say, you need to know about the previous invasion to

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understand this story.

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It's the best kind of continuity reference in that.

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Add something for the viewer who knows.

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But it doesn't detract anything for the viewer who doesn't

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understand.

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And that's one of the things with this story, Brendan, is that I

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really see them.

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I mean there's a complete change in style.

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It's I find it, it's much more comic book telling.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And it happens again and again.

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And it's actually it's actually very clever.

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Like you can see when Joe has to go to the plastics factory to

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investigate.

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She having a conversation with the brigadier about going somewhere

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then you see her there, then you see the consequence, then she's

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back.

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Later on, in the story, they do the same thing with the daffodil.

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You find the daffodil, you see them distributed, you hear about

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the deaths.

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It's boom, boom, boom. picture it now as a sequence.

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And, you know, for the casual viewer who's coming in week after

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week, it's actually quite clever in terms of keeping the story

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moving and that sort of thing.

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It's this comic book style that keeps the pace going.

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I see it in the 4 episodes, George.

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You can actually sit down, dearly.

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I'm finding that you can watch, you know, 2 episodes of a per twee

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4 episode story, like, you know, with a, you know, 5 minute break

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in between, 6 episodes.

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I'm, you know, again, it's trip, but you need to have like a

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dinner break, you know, because they're, you know, they're a bit

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slower with the characters and that sort of thing.

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But I, you know, this is the nature of television in 1917 and what

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they're delivering.

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And I think those people that often watch these stories in one hit

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and then complain about repetitiveness and all that sort of

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thing.

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And if you approach it in that way, you're not going to enjoy it.

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I mean, one of the things, again, episode 3 of Brigadier does his

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big list of where we're up to with, you know, the master and the

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audience and what's going on.

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But, you know, if you hadn't watched, you know, it's been a week

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since you watched the show and you haven't had it on the VCR to

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watch 500 times and, you know, take that information in.

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Exactly, and especially seeing it from the beginning of the season

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you could very easily have missed the 1st episode and then caught

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for the 2nd episode.

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Something I find very interesting about this as well is we now

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have our 5th returning Doctor Who monster in the form of the

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autons.

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Really?

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Fifth.

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Daleks?

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Cybermen?

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Ice Warriors?

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Yes.

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Okay. that's it.

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Now, previously, when we've had, say when the cybermen returned

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for their 2nd story, their 2nd story is essentially a remake of

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their 1st story.

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And certainly the Dalek story started to become very derivative of

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one another.

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The yeti stories as we kind of explore the yeti kind of a one

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trick thing and it's more about the great intelligence.

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But terrible.

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Thank you, Nathan.

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But here, the autons...

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Robert Holmes does come up with a completely new plot and idea for

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them because he's introduced this new character element, of course

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of the master.

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How are we going this far without even mentioning the master?

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We've barely mentioned John.

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So this is, again, Holmes gets to do, uh, in the future, homes

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will get to, like, introduce new companions several times.

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He does it quite a lot.

249
00:11:36.539 --> 00:11:41.399
Well, I think that Terrence Sticks and RX realise how good he is

250
00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:41.879
at doing that.

251
00:11:41.940 --> 00:11:43.200
He does it with Sarah Jane.

252
00:11:43.259 --> 00:11:46.980
The following year, it's the same team, but lets his scripting for

253
00:11:46.980 --> 00:11:48.480
the new doctor and companion.

254
00:11:48.539 --> 00:11:52.980
Holmes introduces, always a script editor for Leila, and then they

255
00:11:52.980 --> 00:11:54.419
turn to him for a moment.

256
00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:58.500
There's a reason, you know, why he's there, you know, Letts and

257
00:11:58.500 --> 00:11:59.700
Dicks can see what he can do.

258
00:11:59.820 --> 00:12:04.559
And so he introduces, he introduces the master and he starts the

259
00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:07.799
story pretty much with what we've been missing for ages, which is

260
00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:11.399
the dematerialisation sound and the time lord.

261
00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:14.580
And some, and you know, we're not in a research centre.

262
00:12:14.700 --> 00:12:18.840
We've, you know, in a really gruesome circus, isn't it?

263
00:12:18.899 --> 00:12:23.460
Just a most unappealing, unhappy circus you've ever seen.

264
00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:25.320
Oh, this poor stock footage lion.

265
00:12:25.379 --> 00:12:26.460
Oh, awful.

266
00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:27.360
It is so awful.

267
00:12:27.419 --> 00:12:31.379
I'm so glad that we don't have those kinds of circuses anymore.

268
00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:32.700
It just looked terribly great.

269
00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:35.700
But all of these sort of fun things that have been missing from

270
00:12:35.700 --> 00:12:36.779
the previous year.

271
00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:40.080
The only real story with any sort of element set in the real world

272
00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:46.200
was Holmes's story last year with the Seelies and their house, a

273
00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:48.480
plastic factory and all of that sort of thing, everything else was

274
00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:50.399
sort of scientific installations and stuff.

275
00:12:50.460 --> 00:12:55.860
So that's all really fun, and then he, it recreates the time

276
00:12:55.860 --> 00:12:56.399
lords.

277
00:12:56.460 --> 00:13:01.139
So we haven't seen a time lord since the war games, and now we see

278
00:13:01.139 --> 00:13:02.220
our 1st time, lord.

279
00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:05.639
And the one who just appears hovering in mid-air, dressed as

280
00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:06.899
Patrick McNee and the Avengers.

281
00:13:07.019 --> 00:13:09.539
Well, there's a Magrit painting since Richard's not here.

282
00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:10.620
I'll...

283
00:13:10.620 --> 00:13:11.519
Yes, too, isn't it?

284
00:13:11.580 --> 00:13:14.940
Just like the opening few minutes of terror of the autons.

285
00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:16.919
The opening few minutes of this podcast are going to be based

286
00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:19.799
around the absence of Dr. Liz Stone.

287
00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:22.080
Zock in Cambridge.

288
00:13:22.139 --> 00:13:22.919
Yes, he is.

289
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:25.379
Investigating German expression is dramatic.

290
00:13:25.500 --> 00:13:28.980
So he's suspended in midair and he looks like those men in there's

291
00:13:28.980 --> 00:13:32.220
a painting and a grit painting with that looks like sort of civil

292
00:13:32.220 --> 00:13:35.580
servants falling from the sky like rain and so he's suspended in

293
00:13:35.580 --> 00:13:36.659
midair like that.

294
00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:38.940
And he has some banter with poetry.

295
00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:42.899
You know, the last time we saw the, um, the time lords, they were

296
00:13:42.899 --> 00:13:46.500
really rather terrifying and omnipotent and the doctor was scared

297
00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:46.980
of them.

298
00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:49.799
But now, you know, the doctor's just sort of bantering with them

299
00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:53.279
and they're sort of, they are like sort of comedy civil servants.

300
00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:56.879
And later on, homes will get to do a sort of full scale

301
00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:59.940
reinvention of the time lords in deadly assassin, much to

302
00:13:59.940 --> 00:14:01.620
everyone's horror at the time.

303
00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:04.019
Yeah, well, I'm still horrified by it.

304
00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:05.700
I would say, I really like it.

305
00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:10.500
I think that the Holmes conception of the time lords is fun.

306
00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:13.019
Anyway, we're getting ahead of ourselves.

307
00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:14.879
There's already so much to discuss in this story.

308
00:14:14.940 --> 00:14:16.799
So then we get the master.

309
00:14:16.860 --> 00:14:20.639
And the master is also just a truly fantastic character here.

310
00:14:20.700 --> 00:14:24.600
Well, I think it's actually a stroke of brilliance on part of the

311
00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:29.220
production team to introduce another time.

312
00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:32.100
They've already realised the limitations of the doctor being

313
00:14:32.100 --> 00:14:32.820
trapped on earth.

314
00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:36.840
Here, as you've said, in the 1st shot, you've got the atar is

315
00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:38.460
materialising, you're reintroducing that.

316
00:14:38.460 --> 00:14:42.360
By having another timeline, you're constantly in these stories

317
00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:45.899
reinforcing to the viewer the concept of the doctor's history.

318
00:14:45.899 --> 00:14:49.559
We've got to remember that only 5000000 people tuned in to the

319
00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:52.440
original time moulds back in at the end of trout.

320
00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:53.039
Okay.

321
00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:59.039
And now, in this 1st story, you've got 8000000 viewers tuning in

322
00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:01.200
like you did the previous season.

323
00:15:01.259 --> 00:15:05.399
They're trying to ingrain this into the psyche of the viewer.

324
00:15:05.460 --> 00:15:07.440
You've got that wonderful scene you talked about.

325
00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:09.840
I think it's just a brilliant scene with that timeward appearing

326
00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:10.500
up straight away.

327
00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:13.559
It's like, this is the master, this is what he does.

328
00:15:13.620 --> 00:15:17.399
You're trapped on earth because we've exiled you there.

329
00:15:17.460 --> 00:15:19.740
You're going back to the viewer and telling them all this

330
00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:21.120
information so quickly.

331
00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:24.299
And then there's that wonderful moment where he talks about the

332
00:15:24.299 --> 00:15:26.820
doctor's degree is less than the master's one.

333
00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:27.840
Yes, yes.

334
00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:28.799
His scoreboard, either.

335
00:15:28.860 --> 00:15:29.820
I think it was astral science.

336
00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:31.799
Was it a higher degree than yours?

337
00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:34.620
Can I just say, make me look so crestfallen.

338
00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:36.419
It's such a billing card for a moment.

339
00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:38.039
I just went, oh my goodness, you know?

340
00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:40.019
And then the facade goes back up.

341
00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:45.179
There's this really big bravado facade that the 3rd doctor puts on

342
00:15:45.179 --> 00:15:49.200
so often that you sometimes can be mistaken for, like he's such a

343
00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:51.240
Tory or arrogant or such a.

344
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:52.799
I like the word obnoxious.

345
00:15:52.860 --> 00:15:57.600
Okay, obnoxious, but I actually think it's a lot of bravado and it

346
00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:58.740
drops every so often.

347
00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:02.159
You know, I went into this thinking, oh, good grief, you know, this

348
00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:05.279
is the 3rd doctor and the last one I watched this story.

349
00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:07.919
I didn't enjoy it at all.

350
00:16:07.980 --> 00:16:11.039
I thought it was a comedy send up of the previous year.

351
00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:14.639
So much so that when I actually went to view this.

352
00:16:14.700 --> 00:16:17.279
I didn't actually earn it on DVD.

353
00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:21.240
I had a DHS copy of the black and white version because I had

354
00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:26.159
refused to buy it because I was so outraged at the crackiness of

355
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:26.399
it.

356
00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:30.419
I just can't believe that, you know, that's what I was thinking

357
00:16:30.419 --> 00:16:33.899
because I actually think this is actually brilliant.

358
00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:36.480
It is a bit controversial though, and I'll put something in the

359
00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:36.960
show notes.

360
00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:42.360
Paul Cornell wrote a very famous article in DWB about how terrible

361
00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:42.720
it was.

362
00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:46.379
I think he praises Delgado, and I think he praises Katie Manning

363
00:16:46.379 --> 00:16:49.139
and I think he probably praises Nick Courtney.

364
00:16:49.259 --> 00:16:53.279
But he, you know, thinks the story is not an auton story.

365
00:16:53.340 --> 00:16:55.559
He thinks it's a mess and he doesn't like the doctor at all.

366
00:16:55.620 --> 00:16:58.980
So I'll put a link to that because it was sort of hugely

367
00:16:58.980 --> 00:16:59.700
controversial.

368
00:16:59.700 --> 00:17:04.019
And so, you know, like a lot of people didn't like this because

369
00:17:04.019 --> 00:17:06.539
they thought it was a comedown from season seven.

370
00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:08.940
But I'm actually relieved by it.

371
00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:10.799
I was finding season 7 so boring.

372
00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:15.299
See, I love I love season seven, but I think you've hit the nail

373
00:17:15.299 --> 00:17:19.859
on the head there, Todd, in that, what the presence of the masters

374
00:17:19.859 --> 00:17:22.980
is, in giving the doctor an enemy, it also humanises him.

375
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.099
And this is something you picked up on last season, Nathan, you

376
00:17:26.099 --> 00:17:29.460
know, he's so aloof and so far above everyone, because there's no

377
00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:30.299
one he can relate to.

378
00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:32.519
Well, suddenly he's got someone to relate to, and we see that

379
00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:39.059
actually the way he relates to people, of his own level is no

380
00:17:39.059 --> 00:17:41.039
different to the way humans relate to each other.

381
00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:44.519
And it actually just serves to humanise the character a great

382
00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:44.700
deal.

383
00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:50.400
I also wanted to bring up the big criticism I've seen people make

384
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.940
of the 3rd doctor and the sort of, this is the damning proof that

385
00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:57.059
he is pro-establishment and it's that scene with the civil

386
00:17:57.059 --> 00:17:57.539
servant.

387
00:17:57.599 --> 00:17:59.579
We used to talk about this.

388
00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:00.599
Oh, what's his name?

389
00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:02.220
Tubby, Tubby Roland.

390
00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:04.259
Oh, I know brown nose.

391
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:05.700
I know Tubby from the club.

392
00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:07.680
I went into that set.

393
00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:09.779
I had to watch it twice.

394
00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:14.460
And the 1st time I'm thinking, oh, I was so obnoxious.

395
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:15.119
This is, you know.

396
00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:17.400
And then I thought, no, hang on.

397
00:18:17.460 --> 00:18:21.660
The way he's treating the brigadier and other people, he really

398
00:18:21.660 --> 00:18:23.220
just wants to get off this planet.

399
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:24.420
He's actually really annoyed.

400
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:28.259
But at the same time, I think he actually then goes and does a bit

401
00:18:28.259 --> 00:18:30.960
of research just in case anybody, you know, rockles his feathers.

402
00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:32.579
And I actually think he's never met this man.

403
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:36.779
He's just throwing it in there to ruffle this, this, um, the

404
00:18:36.779 --> 00:18:39.119
feathers of this, and he actually doesn't know this man at all.

405
00:18:39.180 --> 00:18:42.059
And it happens a number of times in other stories as well.

406
00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:44.940
He talk, like, in the very next story, he talks about meeting

407
00:18:44.940 --> 00:18:46.920
Mouse Situng, but I don't think he's ever met him.

408
00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:50.640
I think it's just to get in and find out what's going on.

409
00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:53.099
And then, you know, It's funny.

410
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:56.099
By the time you get to the CDs, he tries it on a 3rd or 4th time

411
00:18:56.099 --> 00:18:59.880
with one of the guys in the boats about the different wars, and he

412
00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:00.900
gives up halfway through.

413
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:03.779
It's like the whole passage just comes down and goes, would you

414
00:19:03.779 --> 00:19:05.339
buy this war or this one or this one?

415
00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:08.039
Yeah, it...

416
00:19:08.099 --> 00:19:09.720
Yeah, this war and this war.

417
00:19:09.779 --> 00:19:14.400
And so I'm now actually convinced that in 99% of these cases, you

418
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:16.079
know, it's just bravado.

419
00:19:16.140 --> 00:19:18.059
But he's so obnoxious in that scene.

420
00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:19.740
He really is unbelievable.

421
00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:21.960
And this man is being obnoxious with someone who is being

422
00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:23.220
obnoxious to his friend.

423
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:24.839
No, that's really not what's happening.

424
00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:28.440
Mr. Brown rose has come from the ministry. to talk about a whole

425
00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:31.500
heap of deaths that are sweeping the country.

426
00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:32.940
And per tweets.

427
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:35.700
So with useful information which they will actually use to help

428
00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:36.599
their investigation.

429
00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:37.920
He's there to help them.

430
00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:41.640
Per toy comes in and says, oh, you know, wrong sort of chap

431
00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:43.859
creeping into your being.

432
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:48.119
But then dismisses brown roses, petty concerns, and the petty

433
00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:52.019
concerns are, A, really, really relevant to the thing that they're

434
00:19:52.019 --> 00:19:56.460
investigating, and B, like a huge number of deaths that are

435
00:19:56.460 --> 00:19:57.240
sweeping the country.

436
00:19:57.299 --> 00:19:59.460
I just think that poetry comes off, they're just being absolutely

437
00:19:59.460 --> 00:20:01.319
unnecessarily obnoxious.

438
00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:03.480
And we will see him do this over and over again.

439
00:20:03.539 --> 00:20:04.259
He's done it before.

440
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:08.460
He comes in and actually makes it more difficult for himself by

441
00:20:08.460 --> 00:20:09.900
being so unpleasant.

442
00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:12.480
No, I agree that he does make it more difficult for himself.

443
00:20:12.539 --> 00:20:17.339
And I think this is part of the character from season 7 and the

444
00:20:17.339 --> 00:20:21.119
character that I remember as a kid, that's not the character I

445
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:21.480
remember.

446
00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:24.420
And I actually think over the course of this season, It begins to

447
00:20:24.420 --> 00:20:29.460
change and it's through the character of Joe in particular that

448
00:20:29.460 --> 00:20:30.180
this happens.

449
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:32.700
And as much as I love Liz Shaw.

450
00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:37.200
Liz was seconded to unit and would side with the doctor against

451
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:40.920
the brigadier, whereas Joe is actually employee.

452
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:44.700
And so she has to navigate the waters between the two.

453
00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:52.079
And you actually see as this season progresses, and the next, that

454
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:56.519
there is a change in his doctor, and by the time he's not as quick

455
00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.000
to jump down the throats of these civil servants by the time I'm

456
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.160
midway through season nine, it still happens.

457
00:21:02.220 --> 00:21:06.180
He's still not, he's still prickly, but he will pull back more.

458
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:10.619
And at this point, the character is still very much, you know, in

459
00:21:10.619 --> 00:21:11.880
balance with season seven.

460
00:21:11.940 --> 00:21:14.819
I'm sort of glad that it just doesn't change overnight that you

461
00:21:14.819 --> 00:21:16.019
actually see this progression.

462
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:17.519
But, you know, I do take your point.

463
00:21:17.579 --> 00:21:20.279
And I think that Barry Letts and Pat's chance to realise that the

464
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:21.539
character can't continue like this.

465
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:25.859
And so they're trying to work a way to change this, you know, even

466
00:21:25.859 --> 00:21:29.220
if that's John's initial approach to the part, they're trying to

467
00:21:29.220 --> 00:21:31.380
work a way to try and get away from that.

468
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:34.200
So we get the family unit working together.

469
00:21:34.259 --> 00:21:38.279
I think, I think too, uh, it is held by the fact that John, that

470
00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:42.660
Pertwe really clearly likes Katie Manning, like, likes her a lot.

471
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:48.299
You can tell the sort of the dynamics of this group of actors

472
00:21:48.299 --> 00:21:50.819
really settles in quickly.

473
00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:53.519
You know, they're all getting along very well.

474
00:21:53.579 --> 00:21:58.500
Whereas with the previous season, The previous season was a lot

475
00:21:58.500 --> 00:21:59.940
more military in a way.

476
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.079
You know, no one actually seemed that chummy with Sergeant Benton

477
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:09.900
whereas now, because you have Joe, who is an assistant at unit.

478
00:22:10.019 --> 00:22:13.440
You know, she doesn't have any official rank, she's not a sort of

479
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:15.599
a department head, if you like, like, sure.

480
00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:17.880
So she can get on with Benton on a personal level.

481
00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:20.880
And I think it's when Joe starts getting on with Benton on a

482
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.160
personal level, that the doctor starts getting on with Benton at a

483
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:23.579
personal level.

484
00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:28.200
Can we talk about how just truly superb, Joey?

485
00:22:28.259 --> 00:22:29.039
Oh, my God.

486
00:22:29.099 --> 00:22:36.059
So the folklore is that, um, Terence Dix thought that, um, Liz was

487
00:22:36.059 --> 00:22:39.720
too smart and didn't need things explained to her.

488
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:44.220
And so he brought Joey in as kind of dumb blonde to get menaced

489
00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:45.779
and ask the doctor stupid questions.

490
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:48.660
But she's absolutely not that at all.

491
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:51.599
And she, she's really competent.

492
00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:55.920
Um, she's, she pushes the plot along, like we see her.

493
00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:59.880
She's the one who finds the master, she ignores the doctor's

494
00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:02.819
instructions and goes off to rescue him at the circus.

495
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:07.740
You know, we see her ordering things on the phone and flirting on

496
00:23:07.740 --> 00:23:10.200
the phone in order to get things done for the doctor.

497
00:23:10.259 --> 00:23:13.680
She makes the list of plastic factories for them to investigate.

498
00:23:13.740 --> 00:23:14.940
And she's so funny.

499
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.000
Sandra talks about the moment where she's discovered by the master

500
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:22.259
in episode one at the plastics factory.

501
00:23:22.380 --> 00:23:25.079
And rather than screaming and looking terrified or, you know

502
00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:27.420
pulling a kind of Debbie Watling on us.

503
00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:30.779
She just sort of stands up sheepishly and sort of goes.

504
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:35.160
Uh, hello, you know, like, she's terribly, terribly sweet and

505
00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:35.940
terribly.

506
00:23:35.940 --> 00:23:39.480
And terribly competent And it's a great performance.

507
00:23:39.539 --> 00:23:43.259
She, um, you know, she really creates, you know, we've talked

508
00:23:43.259 --> 00:23:46.680
about this before, and Maureen O'Brien really creates the modern

509
00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:50.279
companion or Debbie Watling really creates the modern companion.

510
00:23:50.339 --> 00:23:54.420
But Joe, I think, you know, these days when we think of the

511
00:23:54.420 --> 00:23:56.220
doctors travelling with one young woman.

512
00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:00.119
You know, Joe kind of started that and she's terrific.

513
00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:01.380
No, I agree.

514
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:06.180
I mean, the casting of Katie Manning, the casting of Roger Delgado

515
00:24:06.180 --> 00:24:09.119
the casting of Liz Slade and the casting of Tom Baker, Barry Letts

516
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:11.099
has a lot to be praised for.

517
00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:15.539
But it starts here with the marriage of this character of Joe and

518
00:24:15.539 --> 00:24:19.259
what she's been written for and getting it to Holmes to actually

519
00:24:19.259 --> 00:24:19.500
do.

520
00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:21.359
And with the actress.

521
00:24:21.420 --> 00:24:25.140
And Katie, it's just so adorable from the get go.

522
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:30.420
And she gets in there and destroys the doctor's experiment, you

523
00:24:30.420 --> 00:24:32.579
know, just by doing the right thing.

524
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:36.480
And then in the very next scene, when the doctor and the brigadier

525
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:40.259
spoken and the brigadier got the doctor's number and saying, well

526
00:24:40.259 --> 00:24:42.599
you fire...

527
00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:45.420
And then he has to do it, but she walks in and she's so

528
00:24:45.420 --> 00:24:45.900
competent.

529
00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:49.200
My goodness, had it been Dodo, Dodo, Ronda pieces, you know?

530
00:24:49.259 --> 00:24:52.740
After destroying anything, I had to go off to the country.

531
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:56.160
So I could make you a list of all the plastic factories, but I

532
00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:56.880
burnt it.

533
00:24:56.940 --> 00:24:59.400
And now I'm going to go and have a little lie down.

534
00:24:59.460 --> 00:25:04.440
I think there are some moments in this story where Katie is over

535
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:05.279
the top.

536
00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:09.000
I mean, after she gets hypnotised and gets out of the hypnotism

537
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:10.319
she's a little bit too hysterical.

538
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.539
And there's a few moments like that, but I think that's a settling

539
00:25:12.539 --> 00:25:15.539
in thing, which she does very, very quickly.

540
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:18.420
I mean, she has some lovely moments.

541
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:21.180
There's one where she's lying on the floor in the doctor, in the

542
00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:24.420
um, the, the, the, the, the...

543
00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:27.839
The signal to the brigadier and she says something about, you're

544
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:28.859
not gonna drive it, are you?

545
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:30.839
And it's just the look on her face.

546
00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:33.900
I just burst out in laughter and I just thought, you know, that's

547
00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:34.680
just so lovely.

548
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:38.519
And that's what I'm discovering is how good Katie is.

549
00:25:38.579 --> 00:25:43.200
We'll put some photos of this on the website and I'm going to out

550
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:45.059
myself because I'm sure I'll be out it soon.

551
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:46.859
Back in December.

552
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:51.960
There was a Doctor Who convention with Katie in Bankstown and I

553
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:55.559
actually went along in cosplay as Joe Grant.

554
00:25:55.619 --> 00:25:58.440
From Planet of the Dialect. from Day of the Dialects.

555
00:25:59.099 --> 00:26:02.099
You know, the reason was Katie was very flattered.

556
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:05.819
I explained to her, well, when I was a child, it was the pertly

557
00:26:05.819 --> 00:26:08.099
stories, especially the perfect stories with Joe Grant, that I

558
00:26:08.099 --> 00:26:09.359
just watched again and again and again.

559
00:26:09.420 --> 00:26:12.839
My 1st story memory is coming up in a couple of podcasts with

560
00:26:12.839 --> 00:26:14.279
Carnival of Monsters.

561
00:26:14.460 --> 00:26:17.400
And yeah, Joe Grant is...

562
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:22.319
She's the archetype of the companion we expect now, you know, she's

563
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:23.279
not Liz Shaw.

564
00:26:23.339 --> 00:26:27.359
She doesn't have degrees in half a dozen subjects or whatever, but

565
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:31.380
she is intelligent of her own intuition.

566
00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:34.500
And that's what you need for a doctor companion.

567
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:39.299
A doctor companion needs that intellect and that intuition and

568
00:26:39.299 --> 00:26:44.039
that humanity, that heart, and certainly as the season goes on.

569
00:26:44.099 --> 00:26:46.259
We're going to see a lot of heart from Joe as well, and that's a

570
00:26:46.259 --> 00:26:49.740
hugely important part of her character, which, as much as I love

571
00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:53.640
Liz Shaw, Liz Shaw didn't seem to have a lot of that list or was a

572
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:56.819
scientist, she could be quite cold and analytical, which is a very

573
00:26:56.819 --> 00:26:58.259
positive character trait in itself.

574
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:00.960
Or snarky. or snarky.

575
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:02.880
Astringent.

576
00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:10.440
But I think, yeah, when we start getting this warmth from Joe

577
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:14.039
really through, once you've met Katie Manning, you know that that

578
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:17.519
warmth isn't acting, that's just purely coming from the actress

579
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:18.660
herself into the character.

580
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:20.339
I mean, you talk about warmth.

581
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:23.700
I mean, you look at the scene with the doctor and show when they

582
00:27:23.700 --> 00:27:29.940
go and visit Mrs. Farrow and, you know, the doctor's like gunning

583
00:27:29.940 --> 00:27:31.980
for questions. husband's dead.

584
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:35.759
But, you know, then she's there to be that bridge and say, oh, no

585
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:36.180
you tell us.

586
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:38.279
And then Mrs. Farrell does the very British thing and pulls itself

587
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:39.960
together and tells them everything, but it's through that

588
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:40.319
character.

589
00:27:40.380 --> 00:27:44.700
And Joe is just, as you're both saying, so competent.

590
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:46.380
Like she's a scape artist.

591
00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:49.680
She can knock out strong men with vases, she can rescue the

592
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:50.160
doctor.

593
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:52.619
You're going to talk to Joberman's back.

594
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:54.900
Come on, I hate this so much.

595
00:27:55.019 --> 00:27:58.920
And we add alcoholism to the list of you know, unpleasant

596
00:27:58.920 --> 00:27:59.579
stereotypes.

597
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:00.539
He has a drink.

598
00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:01.980
That doesn't make him an alcohol.

599
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:04.619
But, you know, the fact that we see him on screen for such a short

600
00:28:04.619 --> 00:28:08.880
amount of time and some of that is him sort of stealing Mr

601
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:12.960
Rossini's alcohol and smirking like he's done something clever.

602
00:28:13.019 --> 00:28:14.460
It's so bad.

603
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:19.859
And he, I mean, he had been, it's Roy Stewart, isn't it?

604
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:25.559
And he'd been in Live and Let Die, and he plays Quarrel Junior, the

605
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:30.539
son of disposable black guy in Dr. No, but he's like an actual

606
00:28:30.539 --> 00:28:32.700
human being who gets lines and things.

607
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:33.900
It just didn't have to be like that.

608
00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:35.220
And that's sort of lazy.

609
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:41.460
Holmes is occasionally guilty of that kind of lazy stereotyping, I

610
00:28:41.460 --> 00:28:41.700
think.

611
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:43.859
Sorry, I just had to say.

612
00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:45.480
No, no, no, I had to bring it up.

613
00:28:45.539 --> 00:28:49.259
I wanted to see what the reaction was having her, you know, tomb

614
00:28:49.259 --> 00:28:52.319
of the side and et cetera, you know, and what they're doing with

615
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:54.359
racial stereotypes.

616
00:28:54.420 --> 00:28:56.940
But, you know, Joey's competent and, you know, when she knocks out

617
00:28:56.940 --> 00:29:00.240
Yates at the end of episode one, like she cloggers him to open the

618
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:00.539
door.

619
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:01.440
Oh, that's good, isn't it?

620
00:29:01.500 --> 00:29:04.019
It undermines Yates, I think.

621
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:05.400
It makes Yates look weak.

622
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:08.160
I mean, later on, she punches Benton in the stomach.

623
00:29:08.220 --> 00:29:11.700
No, no, Ben Benson gets the bum off her, you know. you know

624
00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:12.960
whereas Yates is down to the count.

625
00:29:13.019 --> 00:29:14.339
Luckily.

626
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:15.359
Yeah, no, no.

627
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:16.500
No, he is.

628
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:20.640
I'm watching these episodes And Yates does one thing and it all

629
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:21.539
goes horribly wrong.

630
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:25.259
And then, a few episodes later, they try and redeem him, like, as

631
00:29:25.259 --> 00:29:29.400
in this, when he's in the blue engine, the blue little car of the

632
00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:31.980
brigadiers and most down in the autumn, he's suddenly man of

633
00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:32.339
action.

634
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:35.160
So why can't you not afford proper cars?

635
00:29:35.220 --> 00:29:36.900
I don't know, my mother had one of those cars.

636
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:40.079
I kept looking at going, I've seen that somewhere else before.

637
00:29:40.140 --> 00:29:44.940
Yeah, they had nice black Daimlers or limousines last season in

638
00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:48.480
Spearhead from space and now they've got this little sort of pale

639
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:50.099
teal.

640
00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:53.819
Yeah, it was probably the, you know, the production unit manager's

641
00:29:53.819 --> 00:29:54.059
car.

642
00:29:54.180 --> 00:29:55.559
Yeah, it was probably Derek Sherwin's car.

643
00:29:55.619 --> 00:29:55.980
Probably.

644
00:29:55.980 --> 00:29:59.579
He came over there to punch that actual majority cake.

645
00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:04.559
He is very bizarre in this in this story to have that little car.

646
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:06.660
Like, I mean, later on they have their Jeeps and all that sort of

647
00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:06.839
thing.

648
00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:11.099
Maybe they haven't gone out to purchase them yet, but it is quite

649
00:30:11.099 --> 00:30:11.400
strange.

650
00:30:11.460 --> 00:30:13.980
I want to talk about Roger Dorgado some more.

651
00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:15.420
Can we talk about the plan?

652
00:30:15.420 --> 00:30:17.160
With like with Roger Delgado.

653
00:30:17.220 --> 00:30:18.240
Yeah, yeah, we'll talk.

654
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:18.839
I counted.

655
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:21.900
I was so, you know, I did a lot of homework.

656
00:30:22.019 --> 00:30:28.079
The master tries to kill the doctor 7 times. in this story.

657
00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:28.859
Fabulous.

658
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:31.440
So what are we talking once every sort of 15 minutes.

659
00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:33.000
And it sort of fails.

660
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:35.700
And he's never that upset by it.

661
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:36.480
Do you know what I mean?

662
00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:41.700
And his final plan, which is so spectacularly bad, is, you know

663
00:30:41.700 --> 00:30:43.559
he's going to kill the doctor because he's going to bring the

664
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:45.839
autons of the nestines to earth.

665
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:50.160
And then the doctor says, you know, they won't be able to tell the

666
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:51.180
difference between you and us.

667
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:52.680
And he goes, oh yeah, that's right.

668
00:30:52.740 --> 00:30:54.180
All right, I'll stop you.

669
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:55.619
It's so stupid.

670
00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:59.099
And again, Cornell, I think, points this out that Terrence Dix

671
00:30:59.099 --> 00:31:02.279
fixes that plot problem by having the brigadier pull a gun on the

672
00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:06.240
master and make him help the doctor, which is slightly better, but

673
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:10.259
despite that, or maybe that's even the master's thing.

674
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:12.420
The whole, we get introduced to the master.

675
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:14.160
We need to know what his deal is.

676
00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:19.140
And his deal will be coming up with just increasingly baroque and

677
00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:22.980
stupid ways of attempting to kill the doctor and failing every

678
00:31:22.980 --> 00:31:23.339
time.

679
00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:27.000
And if the pace of failure or slow down a bit, you'll just fail

680
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:29.819
sort of wants a story, really, to kill the dog from now on.

681
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:31.019
But we're getting in there right away.

682
00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:36.420
See, um, Barrett Lance and Terret 6, of course, describe, you know

683
00:31:36.420 --> 00:31:39.299
if the doctor Sherlock Holmes, then the master is Moriarty, but

684
00:31:39.299 --> 00:31:42.539
especially looking at this story, I come up with another classic

685
00:31:42.539 --> 00:31:46.740
hero and villain dichotomy in there, one that's been around since

686
00:31:46.740 --> 00:31:51.059
the 30s and has already been referenced in Doctor Who before

687
00:31:51.059 --> 00:31:55.799
because the doctor is essentially an exiled orphan who is trained

688
00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:56.880
in hand-to-hand combat.

689
00:31:56.940 --> 00:31:58.140
He got a variety of gadgets.

690
00:31:58.200 --> 00:31:59.160
He's got a secret base.

691
00:31:59.220 --> 00:32:03.420
He got a fancy car with gadgets and a teenage sidekick who is also

692
00:32:03.420 --> 00:32:04.559
effectively an orphan.

693
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:06.240
We never hear about Joe's parents.

694
00:32:06.299 --> 00:32:07.980
She's just got that uncle who got her the job.

695
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:10.079
The doctor is Batman.

696
00:32:10.140 --> 00:32:12.180
And the master is the Joker.

697
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.599
Because the Joker comes up with these incredibly elaborate schemes

698
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:21.240
based on, For instance, the daffodils because people are already

699
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:22.319
giving out daffodils.

700
00:32:22.380 --> 00:32:25.259
So I will give out dacodils, but they will kill and people are

701
00:32:25.259 --> 00:32:26.039
giving out dolls.

702
00:32:26.099 --> 00:32:27.960
Well, I will give out dolls and they will kill.

703
00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:29.880
The doctor likes talking on the phone.

704
00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:31.319
I will kill him with a phone.

705
00:32:31.380 --> 00:32:34.920
It is, it's actually, that's actually not so crazy. is it?

706
00:32:34.980 --> 00:32:38.640
Because, I mean, Batman had run against Doctor Who's sort of

707
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:41.160
fairly recently, like in living memory within the last few years

708
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:42.480
against Trown, right?

709
00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:43.200
Yes, right.

710
00:32:43.259 --> 00:32:44.160
And it was incredibly popular.

711
00:32:44.220 --> 00:32:45.000
Yeah.

712
00:32:45.059 --> 00:32:45.359
Yeah.

713
00:32:45.420 --> 00:32:45.900
So it is.

714
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:49.440
I mean, it is they are sort of preposterous plants, aren't they?

715
00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:51.059
It is really fun though.

716
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:52.559
Oh, I think so too.

717
00:32:52.619 --> 00:32:55.319
But I mean, I guess he's Batman is incredibly fun as well.

718
00:32:55.380 --> 00:32:57.240
But actually taking your point, you know, there's a number of

719
00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:00.900
resolutions in the poetry stories that seem to happen in the last

720
00:33:00.900 --> 00:33:01.559
5 minutes.

721
00:33:01.619 --> 00:33:03.359
Sometimes it's quite rushed.

722
00:33:03.420 --> 00:33:05.940
Often, I think, actually in the 4 part stories.

723
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:09.960
The 3rd part is often the strongest, and the 4th, you know, they

724
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:13.200
wrap things up or it's, you know, and then there's leftover stuff

725
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:13.680
they have to do.

726
00:33:13.740 --> 00:33:17.039
Yes, the master changes his mind very quickly.

727
00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:20.460
They're like, what was the point of the last four?

728
00:33:20.460 --> 00:33:21.960
Yeah, you should have thought that through.

729
00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:24.240
I mean, the master's sort of an interesting character and we've

730
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:28.380
had the master back for last season with Peter Capaldi.

731
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:32.460
And, like, I don't think he's Moriarty.

732
00:33:32.579 --> 00:33:35.279
Well, maybe he is Moriarty to, to home.

733
00:33:35.339 --> 00:33:39.779
So I think I think the idea is that he's the mirror sort of

734
00:33:39.779 --> 00:33:40.920
counterpart of the doctor.

735
00:33:40.980 --> 00:33:45.359
Unfortunately, the way they do that here is by having him be sort

736
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:49.079
of patrician and well dressed and arrogant.

737
00:33:49.140 --> 00:33:51.420
Only he looks foreign.

738
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:53.220
So he's like per to be only foreign.

739
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:55.380
Right.

740
00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:58.079
I think that is a slightly, you know, the Nehru colour and the

741
00:33:58.079 --> 00:33:59.519
kind of being Spanish.

742
00:33:59.579 --> 00:34:04.319
But I think, I think, I think also Doctor Who has used the Nehru

743
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:08.340
collar as a shorthand villain before in Kevin Stoney.

744
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:08.940
Yeah.

745
00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:15.179
Roger Delgado's European heritage, I don't think is what got him

746
00:34:15.179 --> 00:34:18.780
the role, if you like, but I think it did get him past villain

747
00:34:18.780 --> 00:34:22.320
roles, proved his worth as a villain, and that got in that.

748
00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:23.519
So in a way, yes.

749
00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:28.320
But at the same time, I was about to say they don't really play on

750
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:31.559
it, but they do actually play on the fact that he looks a bit

751
00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:33.300
Spanish later on this season, don't they?

752
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:34.320
So you may have something there.

753
00:34:34.619 --> 00:34:36.599
But he's just so good.

754
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:41.340
And he's so he's so still and calm and mesmerising.

755
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:42.300
Boom.

756
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:46.019
And it's sort of like, you know, you can now watch this show.

757
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:50.760
You can either go for the team and they've got a win or...

758
00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:51.960
We've got this.

759
00:34:52.019 --> 00:34:52.559
Yeah that's right.

760
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:56.039
And what's great about that stillness is.

761
00:34:56.099 --> 00:34:57.960
Occasionally he does lose his temper.

762
00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:01.860
And you can just see there results so much bubbling under the

763
00:35:01.860 --> 00:35:02.280
surface.

764
00:35:02.340 --> 00:35:05.400
Like when Mr. Farrell Sr. can't be hypnotised.

765
00:35:05.460 --> 00:35:08.579
The master really gets angry for a few seconds, but then stops

766
00:35:08.579 --> 00:35:09.480
himself.

767
00:35:09.539 --> 00:35:12.599
And that was something I felt recently was missing with the John

768
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:17.159
Sim incarnation, who just often seemed to be very, very angry and

769
00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:19.260
didn't have those moments of stillness, sadly.

770
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:20.880
He had sort of funny moments.

771
00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:24.780
I mean, John Simsmaster, the idea is that the real threat he poses

772
00:35:24.780 --> 00:35:28.619
is that he will take over a star of the show because one of the

773
00:35:28.619 --> 00:35:32.519
things that we know that a time war does is starring Doctor Who.

774
00:35:32.579 --> 00:35:33.599
You know what I mean?

775
00:35:33.659 --> 00:35:37.500
And so John Sim appears on the series 3 DVD covers and stuff, you

776
00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:38.099
know what I mean?

777
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:40.440
And sidelines tend completely.

778
00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:43.739
And I think that's a great conception, you know, that that's the

779
00:35:43.739 --> 00:35:44.219
real threat.

780
00:35:44.340 --> 00:35:45.239
That's true.

781
00:35:45.300 --> 00:35:48.059
The nesting is really crummy again, isn't it?

782
00:35:48.119 --> 00:35:50.579
I mean, last time it was sort of a box full of glad rap with

783
00:35:50.579 --> 00:35:52.559
someone throwing tentacles out of it now.

784
00:35:52.860 --> 00:35:54.539
I was out of focus washing up glove.

785
00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:56.039
It's really bad.

786
00:35:56.039 --> 00:35:57.000
It's like tinsel.

787
00:35:57.059 --> 00:36:00.300
And again, it was so the, do you remember the, do you remember the

788
00:36:00.300 --> 00:36:01.019
novelisation?

789
00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:04.920
Yes, the Alan Hood artwork with the with the eye.

790
00:36:04.980 --> 00:36:07.559
Yeah, the big eye octopus tentacle thing.

791
00:36:07.619 --> 00:36:09.360
It really never looked like that at all.

792
00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:10.440
It was terrible.

793
00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:11.219
No, never.

794
00:36:11.340 --> 00:36:14.820
Unfortunately, there isn't a Japanese version of that, but the

795
00:36:14.820 --> 00:36:17.579
Japanese novelisation, a sphere head from space, pretty much takes

796
00:36:17.579 --> 00:36:21.659
that nesting and that's the nesting monster in auton invasion.

797
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:24.420
I mean, even the so iconic.

798
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:28.139
Even the target novelisation had that great, had a great picture

799
00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:30.300
of a nesting in it.

800
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:30.840
Yeah.

801
00:36:30.900 --> 00:36:34.139
Um, I want to talk about some of the minor characters in this.

802
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:38.940
Michael Wisher, I think is fantastic as Mr. Farrell Jr.

803
00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:42.539
He was in it last year. as the newscaster guy in Ambassadors

804
00:36:42.539 --> 00:36:42.840
okay?

805
00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:44.880
Yeah, we forgot to mention it.

806
00:36:44.940 --> 00:36:45.840
Yeah, yeah, completely different.

807
00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:48.840
I just think he does a great job of, you know, being under the

808
00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:52.500
influence and then wavering like he's not there with the master

809
00:36:52.500 --> 00:36:56.579
and and then you've got, you know, the scientists who get shrunk

810
00:36:56.579 --> 00:37:00.539
to the size of a doll, but aren't a doll?

811
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:04.440
And Mrs. Farrell, who some people have a go in, but I actually

812
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:05.400
quite like her.

813
00:37:05.460 --> 00:37:10.380
She's very stoic. carries on Robert Holmes does have a gift for

814
00:37:10.380 --> 00:37:13.440
very strong characterisation of minor characters.

815
00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:17.639
In this story in particular, I quite like to compare young Mr

816
00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:21.539
Farrell and Rossini, because young Mr. Farrell is constantly

817
00:37:21.539 --> 00:37:22.800
questioning why am I doing this?

818
00:37:22.860 --> 00:37:24.179
Is this really me?

819
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:24.780
What's going on?

820
00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:27.300
Whereas Brasini is just like, nah, I'm a pug.

821
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:28.139
Yep, I'll get my money.

822
00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:28.380
Great.

823
00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:30.780
And it's a great contrast there.

824
00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:35.280
But also is it saying that people of the lower classes have no

825
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:36.119
moral fibre.

826
00:37:36.179 --> 00:37:38.579
Whereas a businessman has moral fibre.

827
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:43.019
Hmm, right, your answers in on one of those kinds.

828
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:46.079
Okay, there's one other thing I want to talk about and has to be

829
00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:46.500
talked about.

830
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:49.320
It's the use of CSO in this story.

831
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:51.300
Oh, God, yes, it's a CSO.

832
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.820
It is unbelievable.

833
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:58.199
The number of shots that Barry Let's use is in CSO, he really does

834
00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:04.860
try to cut things in with mid-shots and headshots and not focus on

835
00:38:04.860 --> 00:38:07.199
what's going on in the background.

836
00:38:07.260 --> 00:38:10.380
For the most part, like you've got you've got the stuff in the car

837
00:38:10.380 --> 00:38:13.019
like that's all we might have the CSA stuff as they're driving

838
00:38:13.019 --> 00:38:15.480
along, which, you know, is taken from Hollywood films and that

839
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:15.900
sort of thing.

840
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:20.400
You've got the telescope tower, like, and again, most of that

841
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:23.639
stuff, he tries to frame it with people rather than what's going

842
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:24.119
on behind.

843
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:27.719
I watched it in black and white, to see it was any better, because

844
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:32.159
of course, at this time, I still watching black and white, here in

845
00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:34.019
Australia, it's still going to be a black and white premium as

846
00:38:34.019 --> 00:38:34.739
people watching that.

847
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:38.280
And you know, for the most part, you can, you can sort of, he gets

848
00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:41.219
away with most of it, most of the time, because it's like it's

849
00:38:41.219 --> 00:38:44.699
like there and then it's gone and before you kind of think, well

850
00:38:44.699 --> 00:38:45.780
there's something strange about that.

851
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:48.780
It's it's gone past you and you're not going to see it again, as

852
00:38:48.780 --> 00:38:51.960
I've mentioned before in rewatching it because you can't record

853
00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:52.260
it.

854
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:59.760
But, There are a couple of moments that really, Take the K talking

855
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:00.840
about...

856
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:06.480
Yes, Mrs. Kitchen and the Master's Auton Ladd, right?

857
00:39:06.539 --> 00:39:07.619
They're determined.

858
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:10.920
And there's another moment where Joe is on a in a telephone booth

859
00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:14.340
which is also just, but I think you're wrong.

860
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:17.159
I think it's deliberate and I think it does, it's part of that

861
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:18.900
comic book thing that you said before.

862
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:20.760
So we get these quick shots of things.

863
00:39:20.820 --> 00:39:24.960
Uh, you know, it would have been uh, impractical or too expensive

864
00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:28.679
to build a set for, you know, the scene where the master and Lou

865
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:33.420
Russell um, steal the auton thing.

866
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:36.300
But so what it's doing, it is contributing.

867
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:39.960
It's got really, really quick shots and it makes the world less

868
00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:40.860
real.

869
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:43.199
It contributes to that comic book thing.

870
00:39:43.260 --> 00:39:45.599
And I think it's a deliberate artistic choice.

871
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:49.139
And we're going to see poetry, poetry, era, do this again soon in

872
00:39:49.139 --> 00:39:53.340
Claws of Axos, where, you know, just as the master is making the

873
00:39:53.340 --> 00:39:56.579
world more terrifying by people in it with sort of killer flowers

874
00:39:56.579 --> 00:40:00.059
and killer shop window dummies and killer, promotional head guys

875
00:40:00.059 --> 00:40:05.460
and killer dolls, the director is making the world less real, less

876
00:40:05.460 --> 00:40:08.159
like the one we inhabit and more psychedelic.

877
00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:11.639
And we will see that, and it's a deliberate reaction to against

878
00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:17.219
last year's sort of grim succession. of bases scientific

879
00:40:17.219 --> 00:40:18.780
establishments. you know what I mean?

880
00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:24.059
This is a a brightly coloured, fast moving and glam and artificial

881
00:40:24.059 --> 00:40:24.300
world.

882
00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:25.500
I take a point.

883
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:30.179
I understand all the reasons why he's doing it. 99% of the time, or

884
00:40:30.179 --> 00:40:32.880
95% of the time, I actually think it works, and he's really trying

885
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:35.400
hard to use the resources that are available.

886
00:40:35.460 --> 00:40:38.039
And if you didn't have this going on now, you wouldn't have what

887
00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:40.380
we have now with all the CGI that we have, you know?

888
00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:44.579
This is him doing his version of CGI and using that technology to

889
00:40:44.579 --> 00:40:47.519
make those choices and to keep the story moving and not overspend

890
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:48.360
and all that sort of stuff.

891
00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:51.179
And, you know, most of the time it works quite well.

892
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:54.960
There's just those couple of shots that I just kind of go, oh, you

893
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:57.360
know, I love Mrs. Farris.

894
00:40:57.420 --> 00:40:59.159
No, I actually like her, Keisha.

895
00:40:59.219 --> 00:41:01.739
You know, and it's such a short shot, but I think that sometimes

896
00:41:01.739 --> 00:41:04.380
people go, oh, the CSO in this is just terrible.

897
00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:05.940
It really is the whole thing, but it doesn't.

898
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:06.539
It doesn't.

899
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:09.599
Barrylex does use it more than other directors having watched the

900
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:10.920
next run of stories.

901
00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:14.639
Yeah, directors use it much more sparingly at certain times.

902
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:17.400
But he does start to pair it back a bit after this, which is

903
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:17.699
good.

904
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:19.860
But just before we move on.

905
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:23.280
I would like to praise particular CSO shot, and that is the shock

906
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:25.019
of Gooch in the lunchbox.

907
00:41:25.019 --> 00:41:29.280
Because both in colour and in black and white, that actually looks

908
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:30.900
like an actor in a set.

909
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:32.219
Yeah.

910
00:41:32.219 --> 00:41:35.219
There's a little tiny bit of fringing on the colour version, but

911
00:41:35.219 --> 00:41:37.980
it's one of the best CSO shots in the entire Perl era.

912
00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:40.500
They were going to put a doll in there, weren't they?

913
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:40.920
Yeah.

914
00:41:40.980 --> 00:41:44.219
It's much better than the dollies you get in.

915
00:41:44.460 --> 00:41:47.579
They get rid of them pretty quickly.

916
00:41:47.699 --> 00:41:50.880
But it is interesting how, like, it's only in home stories that

917
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:52.619
the master shrinks people to that size.

918
00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:55.019
Like the other ones, I don't think it shrinks anybody else in the

919
00:41:55.019 --> 00:41:55.559
rest of the season.

920
00:41:55.619 --> 00:41:57.179
No, he has a laser pistol later.

921
00:41:57.239 --> 00:41:58.019
It's different.

922
00:41:58.079 --> 00:41:58.559
Yeah.

923
00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:02.579
Maybe it is not to have to go through the whole CSO setup and all

924
00:42:02.579 --> 00:42:03.119
that sort of thing.

925
00:42:03.179 --> 00:42:07.260
It's also because it fits in with the Batman sensibility of this

926
00:42:07.260 --> 00:42:07.559
story.

927
00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:08.400
Do you know what I mean?

928
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:15.539
Yes, well, um, the 1966 Batman film, which featured Cesar Romero

929
00:42:15.539 --> 00:42:19.380
Joker, Lee Mary, whether it's Catwoman, um, both Merrick, Penguin

930
00:42:19.380 --> 00:42:23.340
Frank Gautian's Riddler, that was theatrically shown in the UK and

931
00:42:23.340 --> 00:42:24.300
the villains in that.

932
00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:27.840
Didn't exactly add a shrimp ray, but they had a dehydration ray

933
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:30.059
which reduced people to powder.

934
00:42:30.059 --> 00:42:33.239
Coloured powder, a little vial of coloured sherbet powder.

935
00:42:33.300 --> 00:42:35.639
Perhaps that's another antecedent of this story.

936
00:42:35.699 --> 00:42:40.199
Having been allocated this story, I was really pleasantly

937
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:42.599
surprised, and I've certainly revised my opinion of it.

938
00:42:42.659 --> 00:42:46.679
It's a great start to the brand new vision that Terrence Dixon

939
00:42:46.679 --> 00:42:48.000
Barry, let's bring into the show.

940
00:42:48.059 --> 00:42:51.239
Well, coming off that, let's see what you think of, the mind of

941
00:42:51.239 --> 00:42:51.780
evil.

942
00:42:58.019 --> 00:43:01.139
All right, so, the mind of evil.

943
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:03.539
So you've got Don...

944
00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:04.559
Yep.

945
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:06.119
Who wrote Inferno?

946
00:43:06.179 --> 00:43:08.219
Inferno, you've got the director.

947
00:43:08.460 --> 00:43:11.219
To Tim Coombe, who directed...

948
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:12.000
Oh, say lyrics.

949
00:43:12.059 --> 00:43:15.179
So we've got 2 throwbacks to season seven.

950
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:19.739
And I actually think that of all the stories in this season, for

951
00:43:19.739 --> 00:43:22.679
me anyway, this is the one where at least starts off very much

952
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:24.719
like a season 7 story.

953
00:43:24.780 --> 00:43:25.920
I think his Shaw could be there.

954
00:43:25.980 --> 00:43:29.460
The doctor's in his own plot, separate to the brigadier, like a co

955
00:43:28.860 --> 00:43:29.460
lead.

956
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:32.579
And the doctor's gone to investigate some sort of scientific thing

957
00:43:32.579 --> 00:43:35.579
which he just, well, he's very narky quite frankly.

958
00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:36.659
He's obnoxious.

959
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:40.800
He keeps interrupting as Professor Watt's face.

960
00:43:40.860 --> 00:43:42.119
God, how horrible is that?

961
00:43:42.179 --> 00:43:43.559
He keeps interrupting.

962
00:43:43.619 --> 00:43:44.699
I know what a rude person.

963
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:48.360
And he derides the idea that there might be humane ways of

964
00:43:48.360 --> 00:43:51.719
treating prisoners and even at some point seems to be supporting

965
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:52.619
the death penalty.

966
00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:54.780
It is a very odd scene, isn't it?

967
00:43:54.840 --> 00:43:58.920
When the professor says science has abolished the hangman's noose

968
00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:02.219
in a sign of progress, and the doctor says, it depends what you

969
00:44:02.219 --> 00:44:03.360
mean by progress, is it?

970
00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:04.139
Hold on.

971
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:04.440
What?

972
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:07.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah. saying we should hang people by the neck until

973
00:44:07.500 --> 00:44:07.980
they are dead.

974
00:44:08.099 --> 00:44:09.719
Yeah, no, awful.

975
00:44:09.780 --> 00:44:10.260
He awful.

976
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:14.519
He only tops it later in episode 6 when Barnum dies and Joe

977
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:18.119
expresses grief over Barnum's death and his response is, well, how

978
00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:18.840
do you think I feel?

979
00:44:18.900 --> 00:44:20.639
Yeah, how do you feel?

980
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:21.539
How do you think I feel?

981
00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:23.219
I'm still stuck here without my ride home?

982
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:26.280
It's like, yeah, why did people punch it in the throat all the

983
00:44:26.280 --> 00:44:26.519
time?

984
00:44:26.579 --> 00:44:27.659
That's what I wanna know.

985
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:30.659
I can't answer that.

986
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:34.320
But they do subject him to the Keller machine a number of times in

987
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:37.800
this episode where he gets to make those gurning faces.

988
00:44:37.860 --> 00:44:41.579
Now, we have to remember that in the previous story, he also got

989
00:44:41.579 --> 00:44:43.739
strangled so he kept the girding faces.

990
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:46.500
And the previous story to that, he went from one world to the

991
00:44:46.500 --> 00:44:46.679
other.

992
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:48.300
I mean, he got mirror-oned.

993
00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:49.980
So he got girding faces.

994
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:53.699
Then in the ambassador's deck, he got put up in a rocket, so he

995
00:44:53.699 --> 00:44:55.139
got the girding face.

996
00:44:55.199 --> 00:44:57.719
Then in the Salarians, he got the girding face when the Salarian

997
00:44:57.719 --> 00:45:02.460
went, and then in the original story of his, then he also makes

998
00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:05.460
the gooding face when the tentacles go around his neck.

999
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:07.559
And Greek story so far.

1000
00:45:07.619 --> 00:45:09.480
I think we need to set up a tumblr.

1001
00:45:09.539 --> 00:45:10.199
That's genius.

1002
00:45:10.260 --> 00:45:14.400
And then in the claws of Axos, he's actually in a chair in getting

1003
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:17.460
zapped by the Axons and it's another.

1004
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:19.260
It's another gurning face.

1005
00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:22.920
I think after this point, John Hasting has gone to Terrence Sticks

1006
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:24.659
and going, you can't keep doing this too.

1007
00:45:24.659 --> 00:45:26.519
After this series, stories.

1008
00:45:26.579 --> 00:45:26.940
It's there.

1009
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:27.480
It's there.

1010
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:29.579
It is. right. never noticed it before.

1011
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:32.699
The other thing about him being subject to the Keller machine is

1012
00:45:32.699 --> 00:45:35.159
is he really that afraid of Coquillian?

1013
00:45:35.340 --> 00:45:40.199
I seem to recall that in the completely useless encyclopedia by

1014
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:42.780
Chris Lyons, they posit the theory that the only reason he's so

1015
00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:46.199
afraid of Coquillian is that he thinks it'll take him 50 minutes

1016
00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:49.739
again to see through such a transparent disguise and he's horribly

1017
00:45:49.739 --> 00:45:50.820
embarrassed by the whole affair.

1018
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:54.300
But I like, I like the fact that the 1st time he's subjected to it

1019
00:45:54.300 --> 00:45:56.760
he sees all the flames from in Furnace, that's reference to that.

1020
00:45:56.760 --> 00:46:00.000
But then when you get the cliffhanger with the Dalek voices and

1021
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:02.760
all those images to begin with, I couldn't even make up one of

1022
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:04.619
what one of those images was the new struggle.

1023
00:46:04.619 --> 00:46:08.760
The 2nd time it is a bit clearer and you can actually work it

1024
00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:08.880
out.

1025
00:46:08.940 --> 00:46:12.000
But that 1st time it's only the Dalek voices that sort of, you got

1026
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:14.639
to go, oh, okay, that's a nice little throwback to that sort of

1027
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:14.940
thing.

1028
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:17.820
So again, here we've got these little throwbacks to what's

1029
00:46:17.820 --> 00:46:20.880
happening in the recent past, that sort of thing.

1030
00:46:20.940 --> 00:46:24.119
I think the earliest one they have in there is a zombie.

1031
00:46:24.179 --> 00:46:30.480
So again, it's that reward for longtime fans. that new viewers can

1032
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:32.099
also go, oh, what was that?

1033
00:46:32.219 --> 00:46:33.119
Was that a giant ant?

1034
00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:39.659
So it's still exciting for a new viewer who has no idea what these

1035
00:46:39.659 --> 00:46:40.139
things are.

1036
00:46:40.199 --> 00:46:43.739
It's a very good method of visual storytelling.

1037
00:46:43.800 --> 00:46:47.519
And just another example of, yeah, Doctor Who is starting to do

1038
00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:51.960
info ducts and continuity references, but it's doing them very

1039
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:52.199
well.

1040
00:46:52.260 --> 00:46:54.780
It's very nice in these 1st episodes.

1041
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:57.719
Joe's really warm and she goes to see Barnum in the hospital when

1042
00:46:57.719 --> 00:46:59.519
she's talking to the Michael Scherard.

1043
00:46:59.579 --> 00:47:05.280
Michael Who's great, you know, again, it's one of these stories.

1044
00:47:05.340 --> 00:47:08.400
Well, it's a 6 episode of where certain characters come in and out

1045
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:10.860
and that happens a few times in the perch year.

1046
00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:12.719
It's very interesting that not in everything.

1047
00:47:12.780 --> 00:47:14.099
He's not in every single episode.

1048
00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:17.940
Speaking of, we've got another debut of a very important character

1049
00:47:17.940 --> 00:47:18.300
this story.

1050
00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:20.280
Corporal Bell.

1051
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:22.440
Fantastic.

1052
00:47:22.500 --> 00:47:24.719
And they're expanding the unit family lash again.

1053
00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:27.840
I knew she really even existed. 30 years.

1054
00:47:27.900 --> 00:47:30.539
She just looks fabulous.

1055
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:32.159
And she's so no nonsense.

1056
00:47:32.219 --> 00:47:34.199
Like she just sits there and gets on with her job.

1057
00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:37.260
And it's this very odd thing of, yeah, it's a small part.

1058
00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:41.519
She is not given much to do, but manages to put in a good

1059
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:42.000
performance.

1060
00:47:42.059 --> 00:47:45.780
You know, you're never in any doubt that, Okay, yes, you are a

1061
00:47:45.780 --> 00:47:46.260
professional.

1062
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:47.880
So she's invited back.

1063
00:47:47.940 --> 00:47:49.619
She does 2 stories, doesn't she?

1064
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:50.760
She does this an axis.

1065
00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:54.179
And then Kate Foots are in a novelisation that gives her brain

1066
00:47:54.179 --> 00:47:55.019
cancer, I think.

1067
00:47:55.079 --> 00:47:56.039
Oh, great.

1068
00:47:56.099 --> 00:48:01.199
And David and McKinty put her in a novel called Face of the Anime

1069
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:04.920
a very good novel. where it's explained what happens to her

1070
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:06.480
between season 8 and 9.

1071
00:48:06.599 --> 00:48:09.360
Pretty much, well, she doesn't get brain cancer at that point

1072
00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:13.139
maybe she does later on, but she is given a quiet discharge

1073
00:48:13.139 --> 00:48:15.659
because she blackmailed into healthy the enemy.

1074
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:17.940
Okay, I have heard of that story.

1075
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:19.739
We will put a link to it in this notes.

1076
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:20.340
Very, very good.

1077
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:22.860
But of course, she's in the brigadiers.

1078
00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:25.500
Subplot, which at this point isn't linked to the doctors.

1079
00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:28.619
You know, we've got this whole peace conference with the Chinese

1080
00:48:28.619 --> 00:48:31.380
and I think it's actually great that they're actually doing

1081
00:48:31.380 --> 00:48:34.559
something like this, you know, Nixon hasn't gone to China yet.

1082
00:48:34.619 --> 00:48:37.619
Our prime minister, you know, it's still a few years away before

1083
00:48:37.619 --> 00:48:40.679
he is, is, um, it goes to China.

1084
00:48:40.739 --> 00:48:43.619
So it's so relevant to what's going on in the world.

1085
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:44.699
And I like that link.

1086
00:48:44.820 --> 00:48:49.800
And then we've got actual Chinese people playing the Chinese, which

1087
00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:50.219
is great.

1088
00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:52.739
I think it may be the 1st time in Doctor Who, we've had people

1089
00:48:52.739 --> 00:48:54.960
listen Zenya Merton from Burma.

1090
00:48:55.260 --> 00:48:58.079
Yes, I think that's right.

1091
00:48:58.139 --> 00:49:00.239
Actually, you're quite right.

1092
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:03.480
In Marco Polo. they did actually have a lot of Asian actors

1093
00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:06.239
filling out the background because Daniel Merton is, of course

1094
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:08.579
Asian as well, but I think it's the 1st time since then because in

1095
00:49:08.579 --> 00:49:13.980
the Crusades, we had Bernard K and Roger Avon, in 2 of the Sidemen

1096
00:49:13.980 --> 00:49:15.119
we had Shirley Cookland.

1097
00:49:15.179 --> 00:49:18.539
And well, I suppose George Pastel.

1098
00:49:18.599 --> 00:49:23.699
But yeah, it's it's a big step forward from a program who that has

1099
00:49:23.699 --> 00:49:28.079
often just applied heavy makeup to actors' faces to make them look

1100
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:28.559
forward.

1101
00:49:28.619 --> 00:49:31.440
You do know that it's Don Horton's wife, though, don't you?

1102
00:49:31.500 --> 00:49:32.639
You do know this, actually.

1103
00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:33.780
I had actually...

1104
00:49:33.780 --> 00:49:36.539
Wasn't she great?

1105
00:49:36.659 --> 00:49:41.940
Isn't Kicks and Lim as Corporal... sorry, Captain Chin Li.

1106
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:44.579
Yeah, she is really excellent.

1107
00:49:44.699 --> 00:49:48.780
I think she is very good in the 1st 2 episodes.

1108
00:49:49.019 --> 00:49:51.599
I'm going to qualify this, right?

1109
00:49:51.659 --> 00:49:56.340
And it's, you know, as Yeats mentions a pity, she's quite a dog.

1110
00:49:56.820 --> 00:50:01.260
Well, I love that look from Nicholas Courtney, because, of course

1111
00:50:01.260 --> 00:50:03.780
Richard Franklin has now written novels about Yeats and what

1112
00:50:03.780 --> 00:50:08.460
happened to Yeats afterwards, and, yeah, pretty much Yeats say

1113
00:50:08.460 --> 00:50:10.619
it's so strange, if those novels.

1114
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:13.920
And there's a look from Nicholas Courtney when Yates says that, and

1115
00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:16.260
it's not a look of, oh, you dirty young man.

1116
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:19.199
It's a look off, seriously, Mike, everyone knows.

1117
00:50:19.559 --> 00:50:21.480
It's very true.

1118
00:50:21.539 --> 00:50:24.599
Look, it's great that I think she does a great job of being

1119
00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:26.820
possessed for the 1st 2 episodes.

1120
00:50:26.940 --> 00:50:33.179
Then we get the unfortunate incident with the American

1121
00:50:33.179 --> 00:50:34.079
Ambassador.

1122
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:37.980
Where she has to turn into Puff the Magic Dragon.

1123
00:50:38.099 --> 00:50:40.380
Oh, the dragon's really bad, isn't it?

1124
00:50:40.500 --> 00:50:43.260
Yes, but I'll give the director this in Clickhang out of episode

1125
00:50:43.260 --> 00:50:44.579
two. really cutting around it.

1126
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:45.659
So you don't see it.

1127
00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:48.659
Unfortunately, then for some bizarre reason at the beginning of

1128
00:50:48.659 --> 00:50:49.199
episode three.

1129
00:50:49.260 --> 00:50:52.500
You then see the whole thing in all of its disgrace, right?

1130
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:53.820
It's really, really bad.

1131
00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:55.739
It's a vinyl.

1132
00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:57.179
Oh, it's just awful.

1133
00:50:57.239 --> 00:51:00.119
And often in a poetry 6 part, I've discovered that there's almost

1134
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:03.480
often one episode, for some reason, that is worse than the others

1135
00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:05.639
through design or through whatever.

1136
00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:08.460
And it happens to be episode 3 because you get that stupid dragon

1137
00:51:08.460 --> 00:51:10.679
shot, which I just went, you for real?

1138
00:51:10.739 --> 00:51:15.599
Then it turns back into Captain Chinle, who then does the

1139
00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:18.539
wonderful, I'm going to faint, but I don't want to hurt myself

1140
00:51:18.539 --> 00:51:19.920
kind of.

1141
00:51:19.980 --> 00:51:21.780
Then the doctor has...

1142
00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:22.440
No, it's true.

1143
00:51:22.500 --> 00:51:25.739
And then the doctor has to talk to her and she's coming around and

1144
00:51:25.739 --> 00:51:27.119
it's just the worst acting.

1145
00:51:27.179 --> 00:51:30.000
After that, she's then shipped off to the country and we never see

1146
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:30.360
her again.

1147
00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:32.159
She's staying with Dodo.

1148
00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:32.940
I must think.

1149
00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:35.280
But that's her weak moment.

1150
00:51:35.340 --> 00:51:36.900
The 1st episode, I think she's very good in.

1151
00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:40.679
She does appear to be the only Chinese person, the only Chinese

1152
00:51:40.679 --> 00:51:42.000
woman in London, of course.

1153
00:51:42.059 --> 00:51:47.400
Because when, yeah, yeah, when the Brigadier Expresses surprise

1154
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:50.280
that Benton somehow managed to lose her in broad daylight.

1155
00:51:50.340 --> 00:51:53.219
No, no, but there's also the thing that the link between the 2

1156
00:51:53.219 --> 00:51:56.159
parts of the story, published by the fact that there's a Chinese

1157
00:51:56.159 --> 00:51:57.780
girl in both parts of the story.

1158
00:51:57.840 --> 00:51:59.940
A Chinese girl, says the doctor.

1159
00:52:00.300 --> 00:52:01.980
There's only one of those.

1160
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:05.039
Well, you know, it's Doctor Who, and sometimes they just make

1161
00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:08.760
these sort of links that you kind of have to...

1162
00:52:08.820 --> 00:52:09.960
You just do you just run with it?

1163
00:52:10.019 --> 00:52:10.920
Yeah, well, that's the thing.

1164
00:52:10.980 --> 00:52:13.559
Coming back to that whole homesy an idea.

1165
00:52:13.619 --> 00:52:16.679
Sherlock Holmes would often make giant leaks like that.

1166
00:52:16.739 --> 00:52:19.139
It would be presented because that's the only possible option.

1167
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:23.519
For instance, the 1st episode of the Stephen Moffat, Mark Gaitis

1168
00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:28.860
Sherlock Holmes, Sherlock deduces that John's sister has a

1169
00:52:28.860 --> 00:52:31.559
drinking problem because there are scuff marks around where the

1170
00:52:31.559 --> 00:52:33.000
charger goes into her phone.

1171
00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:34.980
And I just watched that and looked at my phone and it's like

1172
00:52:34.980 --> 00:52:35.940
there's got work going into mind.

1173
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:36.840
I am not an alcoholic.

1174
00:52:36.900 --> 00:52:37.920
I just clumsy and lazy.

1175
00:52:37.980 --> 00:52:41.699
Look, you really, you know, it's probably about time that Todd and

1176
00:52:41.699 --> 00:52:42.539
I talk to you about this.

1177
00:52:42.599 --> 00:52:46.079
Well, this is the 1st thing that you need to do is admit that you

1178
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:46.500
have a problem.

1179
00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:48.599
But this is just Pepsi.

1180
00:52:48.659 --> 00:52:52.500
This is just 100 mils of Pepsi with 500 mils of vodka.

1181
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:53.760
I don't see what the problem is.

1182
00:52:53.820 --> 00:52:56.639
It's really interesting in episode two.

1183
00:52:56.760 --> 00:52:58.920
Benton's not in episode.

1184
00:52:58.980 --> 00:53:03.719
And we only see him going undercover to see Chinlei in episode 2

1185
00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:08.219
and he, of course, has a bit of a headache and the brigadier is

1186
00:53:08.219 --> 00:53:10.980
not so... sympathetic.

1187
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:13.860
You're too delicate for intelligence to my invention.

1188
00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:15.420
Perhaps you should go after that.

1189
00:53:15.480 --> 00:53:19.440
One of the things I have discovered is how Barky did, in fact, the

1190
00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:23.280
brigadier is and how rigidity is in his beliefs of how to deal

1191
00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:27.900
with um, things from out of space or not of this world.

1192
00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:33.000
And he's actually, Nick Courtney makes him so warm and you know

1193
00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:35.639
there's nice moments where he, you know, he raises the eyebrow or

1194
00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:38.579
whatever, but there's, there's other points where I kind of think

1195
00:53:38.579 --> 00:53:41.280
you know, the brick area is quite, you know, this is the way it's

1196
00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:43.079
going to be, and this is how I'm going to deal with it.

1197
00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:47.460
He does think that that too delicate for intelligence work line is

1198
00:53:47.460 --> 00:53:47.940
funny.

1199
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:51.900
Like you can tell that, you know, even the brigadier is sort of, it

1200
00:53:51.900 --> 00:53:54.599
is the raised eyebrow or the curled lip or something.

1201
00:53:54.659 --> 00:53:58.679
However authoritarian he's been, his lovely warmth is exactly the

1202
00:53:58.679 --> 00:53:59.579
right word, I think.

1203
00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:02.159
But I think I see where you're going with this toad, and that is

1204
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:08.820
the brigadier doesn't seem to be change to becoming more accepting

1205
00:54:08.820 --> 00:54:10.079
by all these alien invasions.

1206
00:54:10.139 --> 00:54:12.659
If anything, it makes him batten down his belief that there's a

1207
00:54:12.659 --> 00:54:14.219
rational explanation for everything.

1208
00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:16.500
He sort of ups the scully factor, if you like.

1209
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:18.239
Yeah, and it continues.

1210
00:54:18.300 --> 00:54:19.619
Yeah, it continues throughout all of this.

1211
00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:23.280
I was actually quite surprised at how literally he grows in as a

1212
00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:26.099
character in that belief, like through what I've been watching.

1213
00:54:26.219 --> 00:54:28.619
And it was surprising, but you know.

1214
00:54:28.619 --> 00:54:30.539
It's a part in the narrative that he needs to play.

1215
00:54:30.659 --> 00:54:32.219
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree.

1216
00:54:32.280 --> 00:54:34.139
I mean, certainly with Yates coming in, he has to play that even

1217
00:54:34.139 --> 00:54:34.380
more.

1218
00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:36.599
And so he's much more deskbound.

1219
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:39.119
So it's really great when you actually see him getting out and

1220
00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:43.440
doing things now, but he's no longer the co-lead per se and that's

1221
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:44.340
changing the season.

1222
00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:45.000
Yeah.

1223
00:54:45.059 --> 00:54:50.699
Well, I think that's a result of you now have 6 main cast, if you

1224
00:54:50.699 --> 00:54:51.059
like.

1225
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:53.639
And yeah, we would often see this in Star Trek.

1226
00:54:53.699 --> 00:54:56.400
There are very few episodes of Star Trek or Star Trek the Next

1227
00:54:56.400 --> 00:55:00.840
Generation that feature all of the lead actors equally.

1228
00:55:00.900 --> 00:55:04.800
You know, at the moment, Star Trek, the next generation discussed

1229
00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:06.719
to a man on Blu-ray, we're making our way through that and, you

1230
00:55:06.719 --> 00:55:08.760
know, you'll have a data episode and then you'll have a Deanna

1231
00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:10.679
Troy episode and then you'll have a Riker episode.

1232
00:55:10.739 --> 00:55:12.300
Doctor Who can't really have that.

1233
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:15.659
Each episode has to focus to some extent on the doctor.

1234
00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:18.840
Therefore, the secondary focus becomes the companion.

1235
00:55:18.900 --> 00:55:22.500
Now, in season 7, that was pretty much split equally between the

1236
00:55:22.500 --> 00:55:23.280
brig and Liz.

1237
00:55:23.400 --> 00:55:30.659
But I think with the fact that they wanted to emphasise a costar

1238
00:55:30.659 --> 00:55:34.079
who would need things explained to them as an audience surrogate.

1239
00:55:34.139 --> 00:55:35.579
That why Joe gets sort of pushed up.

1240
00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:37.440
And then you've got the master as well.

1241
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:41.579
And he's a major guest star and he's Roger Delgado, who was a big

1242
00:55:41.579 --> 00:55:42.840
name at the time.

1243
00:55:42.900 --> 00:55:45.719
You know, he had guessed it in loads of different things.

1244
00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:47.099
He had been in films.

1245
00:55:47.159 --> 00:55:48.119
He was in high demand.

1246
00:55:48.179 --> 00:55:49.260
So he needs to have a lot to do.

1247
00:55:49.380 --> 00:55:54.900
In a way, Nick goes from being equal second lead last season to

1248
00:55:54.900 --> 00:55:56.519
4th league this season.

1249
00:55:56.579 --> 00:56:01.380
And I think it's a great testament to Nick, that if he was annoyed

1250
00:56:01.380 --> 00:56:05.039
by that, or if he felt slighted by that, you cannot see any of it

1251
00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:07.860
in his performance, he is still having the time of his life.

1252
00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:09.780
Yeah, no, no, it's so true.

1253
00:56:09.780 --> 00:56:13.320
And with all these different characters, you know, Mike, for

1254
00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:16.380
example, in this, like in episode two, he sent to get the doctor

1255
00:56:16.380 --> 00:56:17.400
from the prison.

1256
00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:22.079
And the doctor doesn't want to go, and of course, he uses his

1257
00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:23.880
Venusian karate.

1258
00:56:23.940 --> 00:56:25.199
Now, is that the 1st appearance of it?

1259
00:56:25.260 --> 00:56:25.739
Am I?

1260
00:56:25.980 --> 00:56:30.059
No, it did appear in Inferno and it's really weird because in

1261
00:56:30.059 --> 00:56:34.380
Inferno, it was presented as a defensive martial art, you know, the

1262
00:56:34.380 --> 00:56:37.559
doctor never tries to attack anyone.

1263
00:56:37.619 --> 00:56:40.679
People attack him and the doctor uses their force against them.

1264
00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:44.099
I think this is the 1st time that the doctor actually sets about

1265
00:56:44.099 --> 00:56:45.840
someone with it and it's quite uncomfortable.

1266
00:56:45.900 --> 00:56:50.519
But on the other hand, I think that Richard Franklin does a lot

1267
00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:56.159
better in this story than he does in, um, than he does in terror

1268
00:56:56.159 --> 00:56:56.880
of the autons.

1269
00:56:56.940 --> 00:56:57.900
I agree with you.

1270
00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:01.260
I mean, you can see that he's much more comfortable with the

1271
00:57:01.260 --> 00:57:03.300
character and what he is doing on set.

1272
00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:07.139
And he really holds his own in those couple of scenes he has with

1273
00:57:07.139 --> 00:57:08.099
Roger Delgado.

1274
00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:09.780
He's challenging Roger Dog Adam.

1275
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:10.380
Why are you doing this?

1276
00:57:10.440 --> 00:57:11.460
How can you be so cruel?

1277
00:57:11.579 --> 00:57:15.539
And it's actually quite, his moral indignation is quite powerful

1278
00:57:15.539 --> 00:57:17.880
and it tells us something about the character, which we'll come

1279
00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:18.719
back to in later years.

1280
00:57:18.780 --> 00:57:21.480
And it's very interesting that he's the 1st unit character to

1281
00:57:21.480 --> 00:57:24.960
actually get that confrontation with the master, a full bedroom

1282
00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:26.219
and before the brigadier.

1283
00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:27.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good.

1284
00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:27.960
I haven't thought of that.

1285
00:57:28.980 --> 00:57:32.760
Now, also, we don't have to get someone back by the brigadier, but

1286
00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:33.960
you know, the doctor has an agenda.

1287
00:57:34.019 --> 00:57:36.239
He wants certain equipment, everything, and the brigadiers going

1288
00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:38.280
oh, yes, yes, I'll do all of that and everything like that.

1289
00:57:38.340 --> 00:57:41.400
It's really nice to see that 2 can play at that game.

1290
00:57:41.400 --> 00:57:44.400
And then, of course, then they go to see the Chinese delegate and

1291
00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:47.699
the doctor then decides to speak in Chinese.

1292
00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:50.579
Is this the 1st time that we've had subtitles in the show?

1293
00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:51.780
Yes, yes, I believe so.

1294
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:55.320
And I think he specifically says with Fu Peng is speaking in

1295
00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:55.860
Hokkien.

1296
00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:56.519
Yes, okay.

1297
00:57:56.519 --> 00:57:59.579
Whereas with Chin Li speaking Cantonese.

1298
00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:00.059
Yes.

1299
00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:03.420
What's interesting, of course, is according to the production

1300
00:58:03.420 --> 00:58:10.079
notes, yeah, it's actually Pixen Lim, who coached John Pertwee, in

1301
00:58:10.079 --> 00:58:11.280
the Chinese phraseology.

1302
00:58:11.340 --> 00:58:15.420
Yeah, because it said in the script, he speaks Chinese.

1303
00:58:15.420 --> 00:58:18.119
Of course, Don Horton was able to talk to Pixen Lim and say, oh

1304
00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:19.500
well, you know, I need a few phrases.

1305
00:58:19.559 --> 00:58:21.119
Can you help me out?

1306
00:58:21.179 --> 00:58:25.139
And apparently John was quite nervous about getting it right.

1307
00:58:25.199 --> 00:58:28.739
You know, he didn't want to get it wrong because, yeah, he's such

1308
00:58:28.739 --> 00:58:31.199
a professional, and we've heard so many stories that he had to

1309
00:58:31.199 --> 00:58:34.440
follow the script rigidly, and he needed everything to make sense

1310
00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:35.519
so he knew what he was saying.

1311
00:58:35.579 --> 00:58:39.960
So, yeah, even though his character may be a tad arrogant, at

1312
00:58:39.960 --> 00:58:42.179
least he was trying to get it right in his own mind.

1313
00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:45.239
Can I talk about the moral philosophy of this story?

1314
00:58:45.780 --> 00:58:48.539
The thing that I hate the most about it.

1315
00:58:48.599 --> 00:58:49.619
Okay, go to it.

1316
00:58:49.679 --> 00:58:55.440
So in episode one, we get told by Professor Catering, the evil

1317
00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:59.760
antisocial behaviour is governed by certain negative or evil

1318
00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:00.840
impulses.

1319
00:59:00.900 --> 00:59:04.559
And so they're pulling these negative or evil impulses out of

1320
00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:06.420
people and storing them in a giant box.

1321
00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:12.420
And the reason that people are evil is these evil impulses and has

1322
00:59:12.420 --> 00:59:17.579
nothing to do with kind of economic or social pressures. you

1323
00:59:17.579 --> 00:59:17.760
know.

1324
00:59:17.820 --> 00:59:21.119
And so the whole thing is really, really conservative.

1325
00:59:21.179 --> 00:59:25.320
And it has an impact on the way the story is told because all the

1326
00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:28.079
people in the prisoner, evil by definition.

1327
00:59:28.139 --> 00:59:32.340
And so in episode, the end of episode five, I think it's a really

1328
00:59:32.340 --> 00:59:34.199
shockingly horrible scene.

1329
00:59:34.260 --> 00:59:38.639
You have the brigadier and the unit people storming the prison and

1330
00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:42.059
just shooting a whole bunch of people and you see it sort of quite

1331
00:59:42.059 --> 00:59:42.599
close up.

1332
00:59:42.599 --> 00:59:46.500
You know, there's one, there's one thing where Nick comes in and

1333
00:59:46.500 --> 00:59:49.920
just goes, bang, bang, bang in 3 corners of the room and just

1334
00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:53.280
shoots 3 people in the space of like, and later on they kind of

1335
00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:55.980
wallpaper over it by having Dr. Summers say there's lots of

1336
00:59:55.980 --> 00:59:56.639
wounded and stuff.

1337
00:59:56.699 --> 01:00:01.800
But because these people have so many evil impulses, they're evil

1338
01:00:01.800 --> 01:00:03.239
and they can be killed.

1339
01:00:03.239 --> 01:00:06.119
And that seems to be okay with all of us.

1340
01:00:06.239 --> 01:00:10.019
Well, it seems like, look, I do agree that there's a huge body

1341
01:00:10.019 --> 01:00:15.119
count in this episode and it's not just the prison guards and the

1342
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:16.980
prisoners, it's also unit.

1343
01:00:17.039 --> 01:00:19.619
I'm actually... no, no, no.

1344
01:00:19.679 --> 01:00:23.280
I swear, watching these stories that, you know, you want to be in

1345
01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:25.860
unit, put up your hand, you know, if you've got a death wish

1346
01:00:25.860 --> 01:00:29.219
you've got a 50% chance of survival, you know, the brigadier has

1347
01:00:29.219 --> 01:00:33.119
obviously got funerals are us on speed dial because, you know, unit

1348
01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:34.079
soldiers are going down.

1349
01:00:34.139 --> 01:00:37.440
You know, I'm absolutely astounded at the number of unit soldiers

1350
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:40.500
or red shirts that, you know, go down for the count in these

1351
01:00:40.500 --> 01:00:40.860
stories.

1352
01:00:40.920 --> 01:00:42.300
It just happens so regularly.

1353
01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:43.739
And you would never do it now.

1354
01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:46.500
I mean, the new Doctor Who doesn't have scenes where human beings

1355
01:00:46.500 --> 01:00:48.480
shoot one another with guns.

1356
01:00:48.539 --> 01:00:49.199
No, that's true.

1357
01:00:49.260 --> 01:00:51.960
It always is sort of fantasy violence.

1358
01:00:52.019 --> 01:00:54.059
But, you know, I say this.

1359
01:00:54.119 --> 01:00:57.360
Some of those shots. like the actual shootings are really.

1360
01:00:57.480 --> 01:01:01.260
Really, close, like, it's literally, like, you know, less than a

1361
01:01:01.260 --> 01:01:01.920
metre away.

1362
01:01:01.980 --> 01:01:03.539
Some of them are quite...

1363
01:01:03.780 --> 01:01:06.480
It's because they're villains and it's kind of okay because

1364
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:07.440
they're evil.

1365
01:01:07.500 --> 01:01:12.239
And so the moral, that the moral philosophy of the story kind of

1366
01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:13.380
informs that.

1367
01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:17.639
And the other thing that it does is that it divorces good and evil

1368
01:01:17.639 --> 01:01:20.519
from ideas of like human behaviour.

1369
01:01:20.639 --> 01:01:24.900
So the doctor can be obnoxious, he can, you know, like threaten

1370
01:01:24.900 --> 01:01:26.460
Mike Yates.

1371
01:01:26.519 --> 01:01:29.519
He can be just sort of deeply selfish and unpleasant, but the

1372
01:01:29.519 --> 01:01:31.619
camera machine still recognises him as good.

1373
01:01:32.039 --> 01:01:35.579
You know, there is something to be said for keeping a pure heart

1374
01:01:35.579 --> 01:01:38.760
Joe. The killer machine recognises Barnum as good.

1375
01:01:38.820 --> 01:01:40.260
The killer machine still attacks the doctor.

1376
01:01:40.679 --> 01:01:45.840
In episode 5, it goes after Maler instead of Joe on the doctor.

1377
01:01:45.900 --> 01:01:49.500
Yeah, because perhaps because there are more evil impulses.

1378
01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:53.400
But I start to wonder now, if when the doctor makes his comments

1379
01:01:53.400 --> 01:01:55.139
at the beginning of the story, it depends what you mean by

1380
01:01:55.139 --> 01:01:57.599
progress, if he's not referring to exactly what you're talking

1381
01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:01.260
about, that evil is just not a matter of the evil impulse in your

1382
01:02:01.260 --> 01:02:01.500
brain.

1383
01:02:01.559 --> 01:02:04.139
Because I think the doctor realises everyone has those evil

1384
01:02:04.139 --> 01:02:04.860
impulses.

1385
01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:07.019
Even Professor Ketchering, who's running the machine, obviously

1386
01:02:07.019 --> 01:02:09.539
has the evil impulses because the machine is able to affect it.

1387
01:02:09.599 --> 01:02:13.440
So what if the doctor is not saying, I support hanging people, but

1388
01:02:13.440 --> 01:02:16.500
he's actually saying psychology is more complex than this.

1389
01:02:16.559 --> 01:02:19.920
Yeah, except that it does just seem to be a sort of curmudgeonly

1390
01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:24.179
reactionary kind of response to dealing with prisoners in anything

1391
01:02:24.179 --> 01:02:26.460
other than a sort of punitive way, I think.

1392
01:02:26.519 --> 01:02:30.539
I don't, I mean, you know, like, I think you could imagine a

1393
01:02:30.539 --> 01:02:34.260
reading where the doctor didn't side with the moral philosophy

1394
01:02:34.260 --> 01:02:38.219
that was being presented, but in a story context, there really are

1395
01:02:38.219 --> 01:02:42.300
evil impulses that can be extracted from your brain, turning into

1396
01:02:42.300 --> 01:02:43.440
a loveable saint.

1397
01:02:43.500 --> 01:02:44.519
Do you know what I mean?

1398
01:02:44.579 --> 01:02:46.260
That that actually happens in the story.

1399
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:48.960
So I don't think I don't think he's critiquing that.

1400
01:02:49.380 --> 01:02:54.360
Coming back to um, the Star Trek idea on that, uh, a Star Trek

1401
01:02:54.360 --> 01:02:58.800
episode that had gone out at this point is the enemy within. which

1402
01:02:58.800 --> 01:03:03.179
very early Star Trek episode in which Captain Kirk is divided by

1403
01:03:03.179 --> 01:03:06.780
the transporter into his good self and his evil self, and they

1404
01:03:06.780 --> 01:03:08.039
need each other to survive.

1405
01:03:08.099 --> 01:03:09.179
They hug.

1406
01:03:09.239 --> 01:03:12.360
Everything at the end is sold by a hug on the transporter pad.

1407
01:03:12.420 --> 01:03:14.880
But I hope I never get to watch that.

1408
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:20.099
Shatner camps it up fabulously as evil shadow.

1409
01:03:20.159 --> 01:03:20.880
Oh, yeah, God.

1410
01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:24.599
Evil, evil, evil Shatner is up there with Malen Tekker in time

1411
01:03:24.599 --> 01:03:26.579
lash for terms of evil.

1412
01:03:26.639 --> 01:03:29.460
He's a good chat that he's kind of incompetent without evil

1413
01:03:29.460 --> 01:03:30.300
Shatner or something.

1414
01:03:30.360 --> 01:03:31.079
Yeah, yeah.

1415
01:03:31.139 --> 01:03:32.340
So, well, I mean...

1416
01:03:32.340 --> 01:03:35.280
It's hunting is quite interesting because the master who I've

1417
01:03:35.280 --> 01:03:38.039
spoken very much about thus far. actually has to turn to the

1418
01:03:38.039 --> 01:03:41.400
doctor to solve his problem with the actual Keller machine

1419
01:03:41.400 --> 01:03:42.239
creature.

1420
01:03:42.300 --> 01:03:45.780
Um, and sort of like, well, maybe can't you actually do it

1421
01:03:45.780 --> 01:03:46.139
yourself?

1422
01:03:46.199 --> 01:03:48.300
Like, you know, just like the 2nd time.

1423
01:03:49.260 --> 01:03:53.099
This is the 2nd time you brought an alien here and you stuffed it

1424
01:03:53.099 --> 01:03:53.519
up again.

1425
01:03:53.579 --> 01:03:57.420
It's like a child saying to their parent, look, I know I said I'd

1426
01:03:57.420 --> 01:04:00.300
look after this dog, but it's peeing everywhere.

1427
01:04:00.360 --> 01:04:02.039
Can you help?

1428
01:04:02.099 --> 01:04:03.659
And it's like, no, use it.

1429
01:04:03.719 --> 01:04:07.860
Can I talk about his absolute hero moment in the story, which is

1430
01:04:07.860 --> 01:04:09.059
in episode three.

1431
01:04:09.119 --> 01:04:15.239
He is in the car and he's being driven around by his chauffeur and

1432
01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:19.320
he appears to stretch over and turn the incidental music off.

1433
01:04:19.380 --> 01:04:21.300
Like, it's on.

1434
01:04:21.300 --> 01:04:24.900
You think it's the incidental music, but it turns out that it's

1435
01:04:24.900 --> 01:04:26.280
it's, it's digetic.

1436
01:04:26.340 --> 01:04:28.980
And he actually is able to turn it off.

1437
01:04:28.980 --> 01:04:33.059
And it does that thing where the master is in control of the

1438
01:04:33.059 --> 01:04:33.599
program.

1439
01:04:33.659 --> 01:04:36.300
It just makes him look, you know, more powerful than the

1440
01:04:36.300 --> 01:04:36.659
director.

1441
01:04:36.719 --> 01:04:38.699
What I absolutely love.

1442
01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:41.639
What I absolutely love about that as well is it's just after he's

1443
01:04:41.639 --> 01:04:45.239
installed the bug on the phone line outside unit where he can't

1444
01:04:45.239 --> 01:04:46.199
actually be seen.

1445
01:04:46.260 --> 01:04:47.280
You know, he's got that hat on.

1446
01:04:47.340 --> 01:04:49.619
He's got that scarf on, but he still feels the need to put on one

1447
01:04:49.619 --> 01:04:51.179
of his little rubber disguises.

1448
01:04:51.239 --> 01:04:52.860
No, he just does that to relax.

1449
01:04:52.920 --> 01:04:54.059
Yeah, like this twitch.

1450
01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:55.139
It's a face pack.

1451
01:04:56.400 --> 01:05:00.300
But of course, that's part of the audience identifying that

1452
01:05:00.300 --> 01:05:02.039
character with the audience and what he...

1453
01:05:02.099 --> 01:05:04.679
And that's part of his whole modus operanda, you know.

1454
01:05:04.739 --> 01:05:07.559
And as if he wasn't already evil enough, it appears he's a

1455
01:05:07.559 --> 01:05:09.659
Tottenham Hotspur fan, dodging by the scarf.

1456
01:05:09.719 --> 01:05:10.800
There you are.

1457
01:05:10.860 --> 01:05:14.880
And he also gets to smoke that big cigar in the back of the...

1458
01:05:14.940 --> 01:05:16.199
He's just so good.

1459
01:05:16.260 --> 01:05:19.260
And there's just a wonderful scene being in episode four.

1460
01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:23.099
There's some really nice poetry Delgado scenes when they're in the

1461
01:05:23.099 --> 01:05:25.739
prison in the cell and with Joe Grant.

1462
01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:27.119
Lovely to see you, Miss Grant.

1463
01:05:27.179 --> 01:05:27.780
I just love that.

1464
01:05:27.840 --> 01:05:31.860
In fact, I think that Pertuy is vastly more obnoxious than the

1465
01:05:31.860 --> 01:05:36.179
master who's never less than unfailingly polite.

1466
01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:39.900
There is, that also reminds me, and Sandifer brings up this scene

1467
01:05:39.900 --> 01:05:42.599
and I also think it's a real highlight, and it is, it's episode

1468
01:05:42.599 --> 01:05:43.739
five.

1469
01:05:43.800 --> 01:05:46.800
The master comes into the cell and Joe and the doctor are playing

1470
01:05:46.800 --> 01:05:52.320
drafts, checkers, and like they kind of hold up their finger and

1471
01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:54.239
make the master wait.

1472
01:05:54.300 --> 01:05:57.719
But the genus of the moment is, of course, that Joe beats the

1473
01:05:57.719 --> 01:06:01.320
doctor at Czechos and just takes all of his pieces, you know, one

1474
01:06:01.320 --> 01:06:04.739
after the other and he has some obnoxious dismissive thing to say

1475
01:06:04.739 --> 01:06:05.820
but it is terribly sweet.

1476
01:06:05.820 --> 01:06:07.679
And it goes to show how great Joe is.

1477
01:06:07.739 --> 01:06:12.179
And Joe, of course, foils the prison riot single-handed in episode

1478
01:06:12.179 --> 01:06:12.539
three.

1479
01:06:12.599 --> 01:06:13.380
That's right.

1480
01:06:13.440 --> 01:06:17.219
You know, I couldn't necessarily see Liz Shaw single-handedly

1481
01:06:17.219 --> 01:06:17.699
doing this.

1482
01:06:17.699 --> 01:06:19.559
The fact that she's a trained agent.

1483
01:06:19.619 --> 01:06:22.860
She, you know, she, She gets the gun and she's got the gun.

1484
01:06:22.920 --> 01:06:25.320
Like she actually whacks somebody out and she and she actually

1485
01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:27.239
holds that pistol and it's actually great to see.

1486
01:06:27.300 --> 01:06:30.119
I mean, she sort of gets sidelined a bit in the 1st two episodes

1487
01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:33.239
but then the whole next two episodes with the whole prison ride

1488
01:06:33.239 --> 01:06:35.099
and getting captured and released and that.

1489
01:06:35.159 --> 01:06:36.420
She's actually taking an active part.

1490
01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:37.679
She's the only female there.

1491
01:06:37.739 --> 01:06:39.719
It's actually quite...

1492
01:06:39.719 --> 01:06:40.320
Tiresome?

1493
01:06:40.380 --> 01:06:43.320
Oh, I actually thought I was going to say it's a bit tense because

1494
01:06:43.320 --> 01:06:46.079
she is the only female and this is a male prison.

1495
01:06:46.139 --> 01:06:49.559
Yeah, I actually wondered because that is slightly yucky, that

1496
01:06:49.559 --> 01:06:50.219
thought, isn't it?

1497
01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:52.559
And it does, you do have it as you're watching it.

1498
01:06:52.619 --> 01:06:54.119
They don't seem to want to put it there.

1499
01:06:54.179 --> 01:06:57.900
Although Mela does blow her a kiss. as he leaves the cell at some

1500
01:06:57.900 --> 01:07:00.239
point in a really aggressive and unpleasant way.

1501
01:07:00.239 --> 01:07:04.619
But, you know, since it's still a kid's show, even though this is

1502
01:07:04.619 --> 01:07:06.900
a bit more adult, a bit more like season seven.

1503
01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:09.599
It's still a kid show, so it's not going to really go there

1504
01:07:09.599 --> 01:07:11.639
explicitly, I think.

1505
01:07:11.699 --> 01:07:18.239
I, I do, when I said Tyson, I do, I do think that, oh, I guess

1506
01:07:18.239 --> 01:07:23.159
you've got, I guess you've got Chin Li, but this is a sausage fest

1507
01:07:23.159 --> 01:07:24.119
this story, isn't it?

1508
01:07:24.179 --> 01:07:25.380
There aren't very many women at all.

1509
01:07:25.440 --> 01:07:27.840
No, I mean, that's why you've got...

1510
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:29.880
Sorry, that's why you've got Corporal Belling there to try and

1511
01:07:29.880 --> 01:07:34.139
give that balance, but you're quite right, you know, it's very

1512
01:07:34.139 --> 01:07:35.099
male dominated.

1513
01:07:35.159 --> 01:07:38.039
It wouldn't, it wouldn't pass the back, backadale test, for

1514
01:07:38.039 --> 01:07:38.340
instance.

1515
01:07:38.400 --> 01:07:40.739
No, because 2 women never talk.

1516
01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:41.400
No, exactly.

1517
01:07:41.460 --> 01:07:44.400
Joe and Joe and Captain Chinley never actually meet.

1518
01:07:44.579 --> 01:07:48.179
Corporal Bell and Chinley are in the same room, but don't talk.

1519
01:07:48.300 --> 01:07:52.920
But I really like towards the end of the story in part 5 is the

1520
01:07:52.920 --> 01:07:56.699
fact that the brigadier actually has to play cockney because he's

1521
01:07:56.699 --> 01:07:56.940
there.

1522
01:07:57.119 --> 01:07:59.699
Yes, the provisions driver.

1523
01:07:59.760 --> 01:08:02.699
It's really great to see Nick Courtney doing something different

1524
01:08:02.699 --> 01:08:07.199
and seeing that the brigadier can get there, can get involved, and

1525
01:08:07.199 --> 01:08:08.579
is not just desk bound.

1526
01:08:08.639 --> 01:08:12.780
And obviously in part 6 as we get to the conclusion of the story

1527
01:08:12.780 --> 01:08:16.199
he has to leave acting Governor Benton in charge.

1528
01:08:16.260 --> 01:08:17.819
And I actually really like it.

1529
01:08:17.880 --> 01:08:18.960
See how band he turned his hand?

1530
01:08:19.020 --> 01:08:20.460
Yeah, because he gets attacked.

1531
01:08:20.520 --> 01:08:24.659
Well, that's because we have the whole missile business where the

1532
01:08:24.659 --> 01:08:27.239
missile was attacked where we've got that wonderful stunt where

1533
01:08:27.239 --> 01:08:30.659
the 2 lead drivers on the motorbikes decide to do some sort of

1534
01:08:30.659 --> 01:08:33.180
somersault thing before them actually even attacked.

1535
01:08:33.600 --> 01:08:37.560
And then everybody seems to get shot, but Bitten survives, and of

1536
01:08:37.560 --> 01:08:40.800
course, Mike Yates is in charge of it thinking, oh, yes. here we

1537
01:08:40.800 --> 01:08:41.819
go again, Yates.

1538
01:08:41.939 --> 01:08:46.920
But then he gets on the motorcycle and, you know, drives off to, um

1539
01:08:46.920 --> 01:08:51.060
the hideout of the master and the prison guards and, which gives

1540
01:08:51.060 --> 01:08:53.159
him that wonderful confrontation with the master we were talking

1541
01:08:53.159 --> 01:08:53.520
about earlier.

1542
01:08:54.239 --> 01:08:58.560
I think it's time for a couple of observations from Rod, this

1543
01:08:58.560 --> 01:08:58.920
story.

1544
01:08:58.979 --> 01:08:59.880
Oh really?

1545
01:08:59.939 --> 01:09:03.659
Roy actually made a really interesting observation on the story

1546
01:09:03.659 --> 01:09:04.800
which I had never thought of.

1547
01:09:05.100 --> 01:09:08.520
And it relates to the Keller machine because of course, when we

1548
01:09:08.520 --> 01:09:10.380
get to see the inside of the Keller machine.

1549
01:09:10.439 --> 01:09:15.239
It's a green one-eyed blob that feeds on hate.

1550
01:09:15.300 --> 01:09:19.380
Rod fully expected in episode 6, that it was going to be revealed

1551
01:09:19.380 --> 01:09:20.520
to be a darlic mutant.

1552
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:22.619
I thought that'd be a wonderful idea.

1553
01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:26.039
They, you know, they ended up trying to do that in the 80s with

1554
01:09:26.039 --> 01:09:30.479
the unmade story, the elite, which has now been recorded by a big

1555
01:09:30.479 --> 01:09:30.840
finish.

1556
01:09:30.899 --> 01:09:34.079
But yeah, it's like, why did I never think of that?

1557
01:09:34.140 --> 01:09:34.920
So that was a good one.

1558
01:09:34.979 --> 01:09:37.319
Rod's other observation was, I'm getting a bit sick of the

1559
01:09:37.319 --> 01:09:37.619
master.

1560
01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:39.420
I'm hoping it doesn't turn up in every story this season.

1561
01:09:39.479 --> 01:09:41.939
Yeah, that'd be terrible. stupid idea.

1562
01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:44.520
Well, you know, we've had the 1st story had to be introduced

1563
01:09:44.520 --> 01:09:44.880
here.

1564
01:09:44.939 --> 01:09:46.619
He's come back for the sequel, right?

1565
01:09:46.680 --> 01:09:50.279
And then saving me a year later. carry on.

1566
01:09:50.340 --> 01:09:53.819
Yes, the timing of that, you know, he would have had to set up a

1567
01:09:53.819 --> 01:09:57.600
lot of this stuff before he actually arrived in the previous story

1568
01:09:57.600 --> 01:09:58.020
you know.

1569
01:09:58.079 --> 01:09:59.100
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1570
01:09:59.159 --> 01:10:01.920
So he arrives with that alien thing, then has a bit of a go with

1571
01:10:01.920 --> 01:10:02.520
some autons.

1572
01:10:02.579 --> 01:10:06.479
Yeah, kind of comes back to it, plan B. So he had 7 fail plans.

1573
01:10:06.539 --> 01:10:09.180
He would have been a bit disappointed had any one of them

1574
01:10:09.180 --> 01:10:11.880
succeeded because he wouldn't have had he wouldn't have got to

1575
01:10:11.880 --> 01:10:12.960
play with the Keller machine.

1576
01:10:13.020 --> 01:10:16.619
Yes, and he also had to, of course, lose his dematerialisation

1577
01:10:16.619 --> 01:10:19.859
circuit to the doctor as part of that entire planet, but he gets

1578
01:10:19.859 --> 01:10:20.939
it back at the end of this story.

1579
01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:24.119
Presumably think he's not going to be in the next one.

1580
01:10:24.180 --> 01:10:24.479
Yes.

1581
01:10:24.479 --> 01:10:28.199
Well, we, well, we don't know, but the fact is, again, it's part

1582
01:10:28.199 --> 01:10:31.800
of this legacy of Doctor Who that's being presented where this

1583
01:10:31.800 --> 01:10:35.579
deometrization thing is being ceded into various episodes, the

1584
01:10:35.579 --> 01:10:37.260
doctors repairing it, the master needs it.

1585
01:10:37.319 --> 01:10:41.819
You know, the audience is suddenly becoming aware of this sort of

1586
01:10:41.819 --> 01:10:44.640
history of the show, you know, like never before.

1587
01:10:44.699 --> 01:10:48.300
And we're going to see in the cause of access that we're going to

1588
01:10:48.300 --> 01:10:51.779
get one step further to, you know, the TARDIS coming back and all

1589
01:10:51.779 --> 01:10:55.140
these elements, you know, returning to the show after being absent

1590
01:10:55.140 --> 01:10:55.619
for quite some time.

1591
01:10:55.680 --> 01:10:59.399
I think I preferred the fluid leak to the team serial.

1592
01:10:59.460 --> 01:11:02.100
You could zap things with the fluid link.

1593
01:11:02.159 --> 01:11:02.399
Yeah.

1594
01:11:02.460 --> 01:11:03.000
Yeah, yeah.

1595
01:11:12.060 --> 01:11:14.819
So, we move into what's this one called?

1596
01:11:14.880 --> 01:11:16.619
Is it the cause of accessors?

1597
01:11:16.619 --> 01:11:18.060
Is it the vampire from space?

1598
01:11:18.119 --> 01:11:20.460
Is it Bernard Holly can't see in this cost?

1599
01:11:20.460 --> 01:11:21.359
You'd get me out of here.

1600
01:11:21.420 --> 01:11:22.380
I don't know.

1601
01:11:22.439 --> 01:11:25.680
Um, and just as this is happening, deal with snow, we're looking

1602
01:11:25.680 --> 01:11:27.779
outside, and there are freak weather conditions across the whole

1603
01:11:27.779 --> 01:11:28.140
area.

1604
01:11:28.199 --> 01:11:31.380
Who are, who are, who are?

1605
01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:33.720
I believe this is yours.

1606
01:11:33.779 --> 01:11:37.380
So you kind of get this impression, in fact, that the alien

1607
01:11:37.380 --> 01:11:40.859
invasion is sort of a staple of Doctor Who is something that's

1608
01:11:40.859 --> 01:11:42.060
been going for a long time.

1609
01:11:42.119 --> 01:11:44.460
That's exactly what I was going to say about the story.

1610
01:11:44.579 --> 01:11:47.460
Yeah, this is an alien invasion, but they are actually

1611
01:11:47.460 --> 01:11:49.619
surprisingly rare, aren't they?

1612
01:11:49.680 --> 01:11:53.520
So we actually really normally only get one alien invasion a

1613
01:11:53.520 --> 01:11:53.699
year.

1614
01:11:53.760 --> 01:11:57.779
That's actually probably less than sort of in RTD's era.

1615
01:11:57.840 --> 01:12:01.260
And this one begins exactly the same way as Spearhead from Space

1616
01:12:01.260 --> 01:12:02.699
did a year earlier.

1617
01:12:02.760 --> 01:12:07.199
So it's 2 unit people tracking, you know, some kind of meteorite

1618
01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:07.739
thing.

1619
01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:11.640
And I guess this is what we were led to expect from the invasion, I

1620
01:12:11.640 --> 01:12:12.899
guess, and the web of fear.

1621
01:12:12.960 --> 01:12:16.020
We just thought unit would be dealing with alien menaces, but they

1622
01:12:16.020 --> 01:12:17.939
don't really actually do that.

1623
01:12:18.180 --> 01:12:21.060
So this has to be the weirdest Doctor Who story.

1624
01:12:21.119 --> 01:12:22.859
We're just looking Doctor Who story so far.

1625
01:12:22.920 --> 01:12:23.880
Would you say so?

1626
01:12:23.939 --> 01:12:27.119
Because I was actually going to say about the story, that we were

1627
01:12:27.119 --> 01:12:31.199
talking about this season is the season that sets up the archetype

1628
01:12:31.199 --> 01:12:32.100
for Doctor Who.

1629
01:12:32.159 --> 01:12:35.340
I think it's sort of distilled in this story, this is the

1630
01:12:35.340 --> 01:12:36.479
archetype for Doctor Who.

1631
01:12:36.539 --> 01:12:40.380
We have aliens but there is something we don't know about them.

1632
01:12:40.500 --> 01:12:43.140
Sometimes the aliens we have in Doctor Who just turn up and say, we

1633
01:12:43.140 --> 01:12:45.119
are going to take over your planet, but there's always some kind

1634
01:12:45.119 --> 01:12:48.359
of twist or reveal with them, just like there are with the axons

1635
01:12:48.359 --> 01:12:48.659
here.

1636
01:12:49.079 --> 01:12:53.880
I think this really sets the template for much of what we're going

1637
01:12:53.880 --> 01:12:55.859
to get over the next 20 seasons, this story.

1638
01:12:55.920 --> 01:12:58.319
But visually, do you know what I mean?

1639
01:12:58.380 --> 01:13:00.180
It's something that we've absolutely never seen.

1640
01:13:00.239 --> 01:13:01.739
It's so crazy looking.

1641
01:13:01.800 --> 01:13:04.500
Oh, the whole inside of the Axos.

1642
01:13:04.560 --> 01:13:08.100
Yeah, but just sort of everything, you know, like um, you've got

1643
01:13:08.100 --> 01:13:10.920
the eye of Axos, which is, you know, the rudest looking alien

1644
01:13:10.920 --> 01:13:12.060
we've had so far.

1645
01:13:12.119 --> 01:13:12.779
Yes.

1646
01:13:12.779 --> 01:13:16.920
Yeah, it's up there with the vervoids and Alva Centauri, I think

1647
01:13:16.920 --> 01:13:17.579
is...

1648
01:13:17.579 --> 01:13:18.359
Really?

1649
01:13:18.420 --> 01:13:21.359
I just look at it as a big iron stalk, and I've never thought of

1650
01:13:21.359 --> 01:13:22.140
it as anything else.

1651
01:13:22.500 --> 01:13:25.380
Honestly, maybe it's just me.

1652
01:13:25.439 --> 01:13:26.760
It might just be me.

1653
01:13:26.819 --> 01:13:28.739
It's a rato, I have problems.

1654
01:13:29.039 --> 01:13:33.239
But, you know, like the doorways are kind of a bit organic and a

1655
01:13:33.239 --> 01:13:36.479
bit icky and sort of proto-geeger sort of thing.

1656
01:13:36.539 --> 01:13:39.119
Everything sort of is breathing.

1657
01:13:39.239 --> 01:13:42.359
But there's also these sort of weird video effects as well.

1658
01:13:42.420 --> 01:13:46.439
So remember the Axon man with his weird revolving head in episode

1659
01:13:46.439 --> 01:13:51.420
3 where his head is just kind of revolving for no reason and the

1660
01:13:51.420 --> 01:13:55.560
monsters all appear using CSO rather than just sort of rollback

1661
01:13:55.560 --> 01:13:59.520
and mix, you know, and then, of course, there's the, you know

1662
01:13:59.520 --> 01:14:03.239
notorious attack duvet at the end of episode three.

1663
01:14:04.380 --> 01:14:08.399
I'm sorry, I'm just, I'm just, yes, I can just visualise that

1664
01:14:08.399 --> 01:14:09.180
attack, do that.

1665
01:14:09.239 --> 01:14:12.239
Again, Star Trek had been on recently, The Horter from the Devil

1666
01:14:12.239 --> 01:14:12.840
in the dark.

1667
01:14:12.899 --> 01:14:14.220
It is crumblier though.

1668
01:14:14.279 --> 01:14:15.000
I never water that.

1669
01:14:15.060 --> 01:14:15.359
Oh yeah.

1670
01:14:15.420 --> 01:14:17.699
But I like the revolving head of the act.

1671
01:14:17.760 --> 01:14:18.239
Oh yeah, yeah.

1672
01:14:18.300 --> 01:14:21.479
I like that overlay that they put in that it's psychedelic effect

1673
01:14:21.479 --> 01:14:23.039
in the Axos station.

1674
01:14:23.100 --> 01:14:24.060
I think that's great.

1675
01:14:24.060 --> 01:14:24.779
It's really weird.

1676
01:14:24.779 --> 01:14:28.500
And it is doing and it's television sort of effects as well.

1677
01:14:28.560 --> 01:14:29.399
Do you know what I mean?

1678
01:14:29.460 --> 01:14:33.119
It's using videotape and CSO and all of those sorts of things that

1679
01:14:33.119 --> 01:14:36.000
TV uses and film doesn't really.

1680
01:14:36.060 --> 01:14:40.260
And so it creates this, you know, very, very strange look.

1681
01:14:40.319 --> 01:14:44.699
And the show won't go, I think, quite as far as this again, but it

1682
01:14:44.699 --> 01:14:46.560
is really kind of remarkable looking.

1683
01:14:46.619 --> 01:14:49.079
It's Michael Ferguson, again, isn't it?

1684
01:14:49.140 --> 01:14:51.420
It is, and I think it actually does a great job.

1685
01:14:51.479 --> 01:14:54.180
There's some wonderful shots in the 1st episode where you've got

1686
01:14:54.180 --> 01:14:55.979
the entire cast.

1687
01:14:56.279 --> 01:14:58.500
And they're all framed.

1688
01:14:58.619 --> 01:15:01.439
Like, they're all in the shot in different positions, and it

1689
01:15:01.439 --> 01:15:03.840
happens not once it happens, you know, a number of times in the

1690
01:15:03.840 --> 01:15:04.920
big sets that he's got.

1691
01:15:04.979 --> 01:15:06.840
And he manages to get them all in.

1692
01:15:06.960 --> 01:15:09.539
It's actually really interesting to see what he's doing.

1693
01:15:09.600 --> 01:15:13.319
He also does his signature shot, which is the looming monster on

1694
01:15:13.319 --> 01:15:17.159
film with the sun behind them, which is sort of previously with

1695
01:15:17.159 --> 01:15:20.340
the ambassadors of death and with the on in the seeds of death.

1696
01:15:20.399 --> 01:15:22.439
And so here he does it with an axe on as well.

1697
01:15:22.500 --> 01:15:25.319
So visually, it's really interesting.

1698
01:15:25.380 --> 01:15:27.899
Like you said, it's an alien invasion that kind of sets the

1699
01:15:27.899 --> 01:15:29.520
template for alien invasions to come.

1700
01:15:29.579 --> 01:15:33.960
But gosh, the characters are all, without exception, utterly

1701
01:15:33.960 --> 01:15:34.319
terrible.

1702
01:15:34.500 --> 01:15:36.359
Oh, no.

1703
01:15:36.359 --> 01:15:37.859
I really like it.

1704
01:15:37.920 --> 01:15:38.340
Oh, come on.

1705
01:15:38.399 --> 01:15:40.380
They've got Mr. Chin, or as I like to know.

1706
01:15:40.439 --> 01:15:41.699
Do you mean Colonel Sanders?

1707
01:15:43.319 --> 01:15:47.100
You've got Mr. Chin, who I think is hilarious.

1708
01:15:47.159 --> 01:15:48.539
Even he's chicken.

1709
01:15:48.600 --> 01:15:52.079
And I like his superior, who's got his resignation ready to go

1710
01:15:52.260 --> 01:15:54.239
comedy goal.

1711
01:15:54.359 --> 01:15:57.960
He speaks to the, he speaks to the, so Chin is ringing up his

1712
01:15:57.960 --> 01:16:00.359
superior and says that, shall I scramble, sir?

1713
01:16:00.420 --> 01:16:02.279
And the guy says, no, gin.

1714
01:16:02.340 --> 01:16:04.439
I am sure your report will be quite garbled enough.

1715
01:16:04.800 --> 01:16:08.279
So all, like, I'm not saying it's not funny and it's not

1716
01:16:08.279 --> 01:16:11.039
entertaining, but all of the characters just, just sort of

1717
01:16:11.039 --> 01:16:15.539
massively overdrawn and kind of overacted and stuff.

1718
01:16:15.600 --> 01:16:17.520
She was terrible.

1719
01:16:17.579 --> 01:16:19.680
Yeah, Bill Final.

1720
01:16:19.739 --> 01:16:20.699
What's he even doing there?

1721
01:16:20.760 --> 01:16:21.539
It is very strange.

1722
01:16:21.600 --> 01:16:23.760
What section of liaising?

1723
01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:26.220
The CIA are amazing with unit about the movie.

1724
01:16:26.279 --> 01:16:28.560
Oh, no, no, but I mean, what's he doing from a story standpoint?

1725
01:16:28.619 --> 01:16:32.159
Is he's trying to be the male lead or something?

1726
01:16:32.220 --> 01:16:36.239
Well, you know, I think, you know, he's this American cowboy who's

1727
01:16:36.239 --> 01:16:39.899
come in to investigate what's happened with the master and the

1728
01:16:39.899 --> 01:16:43.260
American ambassador in the previous story, I would presume.

1729
01:16:43.319 --> 01:16:45.239
And he's really blokey bloke.

1730
01:16:45.300 --> 01:16:47.760
You know, he flirts with Joe right at the beginning there.

1731
01:16:47.819 --> 01:16:49.680
She hasn't had she hasn't had this before.

1732
01:16:49.739 --> 01:16:52.319
You know, she's more convincing than Richard Franklin.

1733
01:16:52.439 --> 01:16:52.739
Correct.

1734
01:16:52.800 --> 01:16:55.140
She only had all these British Toshes.

1735
01:16:55.199 --> 01:16:57.119
He has a remarkably charmed life.

1736
01:16:57.180 --> 01:17:00.359
I mean, the accents could have killed him, not once, but twice in

1737
01:17:00.359 --> 01:17:02.399
this story and he manages to survive.

1738
01:17:02.460 --> 01:17:04.560
I actually quite liked the fact that he's that gun.

1739
01:17:04.619 --> 01:17:08.159
So these obviously had a great respect for sideburns.

1740
01:17:08.220 --> 01:17:09.779
Well, that could be it.

1741
01:17:09.840 --> 01:17:12.420
I mean, I just, I think that I think he's probably there.

1742
01:17:12.479 --> 01:17:15.300
You know how in the empty child, the doctor dancers, the doctor

1743
01:17:15.300 --> 01:17:18.899
gets contrasted with a more traditional American sort of style

1744
01:17:18.899 --> 01:17:19.380
hero.

1745
01:17:19.439 --> 01:17:20.399
Do you know what I mean?

1746
01:17:20.460 --> 01:17:23.100
Gun, so he's a bit sexier and all of that sort of thing.

1747
01:17:23.220 --> 01:17:26.100
And they're clearly doing this with Bill Finer, but the actor

1748
01:17:26.100 --> 01:17:29.579
himself is so kind of hideous that that really kind of hugely

1749
01:17:29.579 --> 01:17:32.880
undermines his kind of leading man credibility, I think.

1750
01:17:33.000 --> 01:17:38.100
I think he looks like a lot of Americans and people of the early

1751
01:17:38.100 --> 01:17:40.680
1970s with the sideburns and the chest here and that sort of

1752
01:17:40.680 --> 01:17:40.859
thing.

1753
01:17:40.920 --> 01:17:43.680
If you look at any magazines from that time, that's the man's

1754
01:17:43.680 --> 01:17:44.100
man.

1755
01:17:44.220 --> 01:17:45.420
And certainly...

1756
01:17:45.420 --> 01:17:46.979
I don't really look at any magazines from that time.

1757
01:17:47.100 --> 01:17:51.060
Well, neither do I, but I'm just saying that, you know, I think I

1758
01:17:51.060 --> 01:17:54.539
think also he's heavily based on some of the ITC programs at the

1759
01:17:54.539 --> 01:17:59.520
time, things like the persuaders, the champions, he's that kind of

1760
01:17:59.520 --> 01:17:59.939
figure.

1761
01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:02.039
And yet he is spoofing them a bit.

1762
01:18:02.100 --> 01:18:04.079
It's doctor who's trying to go, oh, look, we're better than this

1763
01:18:04.079 --> 01:18:07.140
because he goes along, he doesn't listen to the doctor. he gets

1764
01:18:07.140 --> 01:18:08.699
captures the 1st chance he gets.

1765
01:18:08.760 --> 01:18:13.079
But I also think he is quite a comedic character deliberately in

1766
01:18:13.079 --> 01:18:14.220
his own right as well.

1767
01:18:14.279 --> 01:18:17.880
There's that great bit where the doctor almost kills him instead

1768
01:18:17.880 --> 01:18:19.199
of the axe on duplicate.

1769
01:18:19.260 --> 01:18:24.300
And the doctor realises his mistake because Filer calls him Doc.

1770
01:18:24.359 --> 01:18:27.659
And afterwards, Doc says, are you all right?

1771
01:18:27.720 --> 01:18:29.220
And he says, yes, are you sure?

1772
01:18:29.279 --> 01:18:30.659
And he actually thinks about it.

1773
01:18:30.720 --> 01:18:32.880
Yeah, neat, yeah, good.

1774
01:18:32.939 --> 01:18:36.180
And there's also that wonderful line, he has when he wakes up in

1775
01:18:36.180 --> 01:18:39.119
hospital saying, could one of you Florence Nightingales, please

1776
01:18:39.119 --> 01:18:40.079
get me my trousers.

1777
01:18:40.979 --> 01:18:45.779
Which is, you know, it's pure carry on and I think Barry Letts has

1778
01:18:45.779 --> 01:18:49.020
learned his lesson a little bit about CSO because I think if you'd

1779
01:18:49.020 --> 01:18:51.180
made the story at the beginning of the year, We would have had a

1780
01:18:51.180 --> 01:18:54.659
CSO hospital ward behind him, whereas we've just got a flat with a

1781
01:18:54.659 --> 01:18:55.260
bet this time.

1782
01:18:55.319 --> 01:18:58.619
He's realised, oh yeah, I've got studio flat so I can use.

1783
01:18:58.680 --> 01:19:00.779
Roger Delgado.

1784
01:19:00.840 --> 01:19:03.000
I think it's, again, a great performance.

1785
01:19:03.060 --> 01:19:05.399
He gets to do something different with the master.

1786
01:19:05.460 --> 01:19:06.840
He forced to work with unit.

1787
01:19:06.899 --> 01:19:08.520
He's great in it too.

1788
01:19:08.579 --> 01:19:10.199
I mean, he takes the doctor roles.

1789
01:19:10.260 --> 01:19:14.939
So the doctor's off and he's like, he's charming and and clever.

1790
01:19:15.000 --> 01:19:19.079
Those scenes with him and Sir George, the line where he goes, you

1791
01:19:19.079 --> 01:19:22.500
know, like I think he's going to blow up the, the, you know, the

1792
01:19:22.500 --> 01:19:23.399
whole power public.

1793
01:19:23.460 --> 01:19:26.760
And he goes, oh, I suppose you could take the normal precautions

1794
01:19:26.760 --> 01:19:30.359
against nuclear blast, like a sticky tape on the windows and that

1795
01:19:30.359 --> 01:19:30.899
sort of thing.

1796
01:19:30.960 --> 01:19:33.239
Like, he's so, he's wonderful.

1797
01:19:33.300 --> 01:19:37.380
And poetry has been at his most obnoxious all story.

1798
01:19:37.439 --> 01:19:41.279
So he's been yelling at Chin and yelling at the brigadier and like

1799
01:19:41.279 --> 01:19:46.739
fighting with Windsor and being like just completely awful to him

1800
01:19:46.739 --> 01:19:47.159
as well.

1801
01:19:47.220 --> 01:19:50.640
Again, having the master in this story, it's great because it's

1802
01:19:50.640 --> 01:19:53.520
focussed on the fact that the doctor doesn't have his TARDIS.

1803
01:19:53.640 --> 01:19:56.460
The master doesn't have his tartars.

1804
01:19:56.520 --> 01:19:59.699
Then who is the character that actually gets to go inside the

1805
01:19:59.699 --> 01:20:03.180
doctor's tires for the 1st time in the season and a half .

1806
01:20:03.239 --> 01:20:04.199
Oh the master.

1807
01:20:04.319 --> 01:20:04.859
The master.

1808
01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:06.359
He's really unimpressed.

1809
01:20:06.420 --> 01:20:07.619
Very unimpressed.

1810
01:20:07.680 --> 01:20:09.000
But it's great that's reintroduced.

1811
01:20:09.060 --> 01:20:11.819
You actually then get to see both Tarnus's working partially.

1812
01:20:11.939 --> 01:20:15.420
So do we see the master in the TARDIS before we see the doctor in

1813
01:20:15.420 --> 01:20:16.079
the tunnel?

1814
01:20:16.140 --> 01:20:16.560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1815
01:20:16.619 --> 01:20:17.819
And it's a real mess.

1816
01:20:17.880 --> 01:20:21.899
He's been redecorating and the master is fabulously dismissive

1817
01:20:21.899 --> 01:20:22.319
about it.

1818
01:20:22.380 --> 01:20:22.859
Oh, really?

1819
01:20:23.399 --> 01:20:29.399
Which is amazing because one of the show's big conceits is we have

1820
01:20:29.399 --> 01:20:32.579
this miraculous machine that's bigger on the inside than outside.

1821
01:20:32.640 --> 01:20:33.119
It's wonderful.

1822
01:20:33.180 --> 01:20:33.899
It's this, is that.

1823
01:20:33.960 --> 01:20:38.939
And then the villain, who is a villain that we love as the

1824
01:20:38.939 --> 01:20:41.939
audience, we're still going, oh, you're terrible, but ooh, we like

1825
01:20:41.939 --> 01:20:43.859
you, who comes in and says, this is rubbish.

1826
01:20:44.039 --> 01:20:46.260
That's just cardboard.

1827
01:20:46.319 --> 01:20:50.819
Yeah, he's saying what the sort of 12 and 13 year olds who are

1828
01:20:50.819 --> 01:20:54.300
possibly getting a little bit old for the show are looking at them

1829
01:20:54.300 --> 01:20:57.479
going and saying as well, it doesn't stop them watching it because

1830
01:20:57.479 --> 01:20:59.640
really they still like it, but they're trying to be cool and

1831
01:20:59.640 --> 01:21:00.779
saying look, it's cardboard.

1832
01:21:00.840 --> 01:21:03.119
Do people get too old for this show?

1833
01:21:03.180 --> 01:21:04.319
When is that gonna happen?

1834
01:21:04.619 --> 01:21:07.439
The set is terrible. you know what I mean?

1835
01:21:07.500 --> 01:21:09.119
Like, it's a tiny corner of the set.

1836
01:21:09.180 --> 01:21:12.539
You know, it's not the, you know, the massive grand heart and all

1837
01:21:12.539 --> 01:21:13.619
console room.

1838
01:21:13.680 --> 01:21:16.199
It is, you know, just a little corner they've erected in a corner

1839
01:21:16.199 --> 01:21:16.979
of a studio.

1840
01:21:17.039 --> 01:21:19.319
And did you notice when they opened the doors?

1841
01:21:19.380 --> 01:21:23.760
Then there's roundels outside the doors as well that never makes

1842
01:21:23.760 --> 01:21:24.720
any sense, does it?

1843
01:21:24.779 --> 01:21:25.500
No, not at all.

1844
01:21:25.560 --> 01:21:29.640
And I'm completely forgotten about the ending where the doctor

1845
01:21:29.640 --> 01:21:33.779
appears to be agreeing to the master's plan and then, of course

1846
01:21:33.779 --> 01:21:34.680
double crosses in them.

1847
01:21:34.739 --> 01:21:35.939
I actually quite like that.

1848
01:21:36.060 --> 01:21:39.359
It does give the doctor to play to his strength, which is, is to

1849
01:21:39.359 --> 01:21:43.380
be rude to everybody, you know, before, before he departs, just to

1850
01:21:43.380 --> 01:21:45.000
make his betrayal seem more convincing.

1851
01:21:45.060 --> 01:21:48.479
Can I talk to you about a great personal disappointment with this

1852
01:21:48.479 --> 01:21:48.720
story?

1853
01:21:48.779 --> 01:21:50.220
Go for it.

1854
01:21:50.399 --> 01:21:55.439
Windsor, who has one of the worst lines of dialogue where he calls

1855
01:21:55.439 --> 01:22:00.000
the doctor a stupid quack. and who is killed.

1856
01:22:00.060 --> 01:22:01.619
Is he killed by the attack Duvet?

1857
01:22:01.680 --> 01:22:04.020
No, no, he is still by an axe on.

1858
01:22:04.079 --> 01:22:06.239
Oh, no, the accent explodes.

1859
01:22:06.300 --> 01:22:07.260
The axonite explode.

1860
01:22:07.319 --> 01:22:09.479
Pretty much because the doctors put the X in the particle

1861
01:22:09.479 --> 01:22:11.100
accelerator and set it off.

1862
01:22:11.159 --> 01:22:14.880
When Windsor goes over the particle accelerator, he's like broken

1863
01:22:14.880 --> 01:22:16.920
down like pigbin Joshua's.

1864
01:22:16.979 --> 01:22:18.300
So...

1865
01:22:18.359 --> 01:22:22.619
So his his is a really terrible performance and more overacting

1866
01:22:22.619 --> 01:22:22.920
and stuff.

1867
01:22:22.979 --> 01:22:24.119
And do you know who it is?

1868
01:22:24.180 --> 01:22:24.899
Yeah, I do.

1869
01:22:24.960 --> 01:22:25.739
Yeah.

1870
01:22:25.739 --> 01:22:27.239
It's Carstairs.

1871
01:22:27.300 --> 01:22:29.579
It's from the War Games, who was lovely.

1872
01:22:29.640 --> 01:22:30.659
Cr stairs, yes.

1873
01:22:30.720 --> 01:22:31.859
And he's awful in this.

1874
01:22:31.920 --> 01:22:35.159
And I guess, I guess the thing that I don't like about it, like I

1875
01:22:35.159 --> 01:22:37.979
liked, you know, we talked about the comic street thing in terms

1876
01:22:37.979 --> 01:22:41.760
of the autons and how fun and successful this was.

1877
01:22:41.819 --> 01:22:45.840
I think all of the characters are so so grotesque and so

1878
01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:49.800
overplayed that it kind of undermines it a little bit.

1879
01:22:49.859 --> 01:22:51.420
And I think the other thing too.

1880
01:22:51.479 --> 01:22:54.479
And this is something that Sandra identifies as a big problem with

1881
01:22:54.479 --> 01:22:55.920
Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

1882
01:22:55.979 --> 01:22:57.180
This is their 1st grid.

1883
01:22:57.239 --> 01:22:58.020
Yeah, yeah.

1884
01:22:58.079 --> 01:23:00.239
And they'll go on to be old hands of the series and they'll be

1885
01:23:00.239 --> 01:23:02.279
writing for it long after they've stopped being any good.

1886
01:23:02.340 --> 01:23:07.680
And the problem is that they just have too many ideas and they

1887
01:23:07.680 --> 01:23:08.880
don't follow any of them up.

1888
01:23:08.939 --> 01:23:11.939
So it looks like it's going to be, you know, like a very

1889
01:23:11.939 --> 01:23:15.479
straightforward Trojan horse story, you know, that the humans are

1890
01:23:15.479 --> 01:23:19.020
tricked into sort of accepting this gift from the axons.

1891
01:23:19.079 --> 01:23:22.260
But here we have sort of axos and then we have, there's a

1892
01:23:22.260 --> 01:23:25.500
cyclotron and then there's a, you know, the power complex and then

1893
01:23:25.500 --> 01:23:28.140
there's filer and then there's a double of filer and then there's

1894
01:23:28.140 --> 01:23:30.899
some sort of bizarre thriller thing, political thriller thing

1895
01:23:30.899 --> 01:23:34.260
about England keeping axe and eye to itself and not telling anyone

1896
01:23:34.260 --> 01:23:37.439
else and, you know, then the doctor abandoning everyone and

1897
01:23:37.439 --> 01:23:38.520
teaming up with the master.

1898
01:23:38.640 --> 01:23:43.800
There's just sort of nothing gets developed and it all just, there

1899
01:23:43.800 --> 01:23:45.899
just seems to be sort of too much in it, I think.

1900
01:23:46.020 --> 01:23:48.239
It's undisciplined.

1901
01:23:48.300 --> 01:23:49.439
Absolutely.

1902
01:23:49.500 --> 01:23:50.460
It reminds me.

1903
01:23:50.520 --> 01:23:55.979
Or perhaps it informed a scene from the comedy black books, in

1904
01:23:55.979 --> 01:23:59.039
which Bernard and Manning are trying to write a children's book

1905
01:23:59.039 --> 01:24:02.880
and you cut away from them as they start planning, and then you

1906
01:24:02.880 --> 01:24:05.699
cut back and mainly say, okay, okay, okay, okay.

1907
01:24:05.760 --> 01:24:10.619
But perhaps instead of the butcher and his composer daughter and

1908
01:24:10.619 --> 01:24:13.560
the boyfriend that the butcher doesn't really approve of.

1909
01:24:13.619 --> 01:24:16.680
Perhaps instead of them, the character can be an elephant.

1910
01:24:16.739 --> 01:24:21.180
And perhaps instead of the backdrop of the salon is purges and

1911
01:24:21.180 --> 01:24:22.739
them attempting to escape from St.

1912
01:24:22.739 --> 01:24:23.340
Petersburg.

1913
01:24:23.399 --> 01:24:25.319
Perhaps he's lost his blue.

1914
01:24:25.380 --> 01:24:28.979
Yes, that's really what needed to happen.

1915
01:24:29.039 --> 01:24:30.300
We needed Manny in there.

1916
01:24:30.359 --> 01:24:34.800
Maybe put an elephant in it, just kind of simplify a little bit.

1917
01:24:34.859 --> 01:24:36.239
So it's a frog.

1918
01:24:36.300 --> 01:24:39.359
So it just means you need to be paired back a bit.

1919
01:24:39.420 --> 01:24:42.720
Well, the thing is, it already was because the original plotline

1920
01:24:42.720 --> 01:24:49.199
is the ship, the ship, which is shaped like a giant skull, crashes

1921
01:24:49.199 --> 01:24:52.979
in Hyde Park, so they wanted the story to be in Hyde Park, and all

1922
01:24:52.979 --> 01:24:55.260
this stuff was in it, and pretty much Barry Lance wrote back to

1923
01:24:55.260 --> 01:24:58.140
them saying, boys, it's a wonderful thrilling story.

1924
01:24:58.260 --> 01:25:00.600
If we had the budget for a feature film.

1925
01:25:00.720 --> 01:25:03.840
And so there was a giant carrot in it. okay.

1926
01:25:03.899 --> 01:25:06.479
So it was like, it was literally that situation.

1927
01:25:06.539 --> 01:25:10.260
So perhaps instead of Hyde Park, we can have an abandoned field in

1928
01:25:10.260 --> 01:25:11.220
Skegness.

1929
01:25:11.279 --> 01:25:13.979
You see, and that's the other thing too, and it's something that

1930
01:25:13.979 --> 01:25:16.560
they do again in hand of fear, which is why I'm going to disagree

1931
01:25:16.560 --> 01:25:19.680
with you when that comes up, depending how much I hate it, is that

1932
01:25:19.680 --> 01:25:21.840
it's not set really in the real world at all.

1933
01:25:21.960 --> 01:25:25.260
This is what, you know, pig binge Josh is the real world.

1934
01:25:25.260 --> 01:25:28.979
And then everything else is this stupid power complex and, and, you

1935
01:25:28.979 --> 01:25:30.720
know, like the brigade is office and stuff.

1936
01:25:30.779 --> 01:25:34.140
And we don't, like, are the people on earth, like are the people

1937
01:25:34.140 --> 01:25:37.380
in supermarkets and buskies and stuff, even aware that Axos has

1938
01:25:37.380 --> 01:25:39.479
landed. you know, no one really cares.

1939
01:25:39.539 --> 01:25:43.439
Yeah, I'm like when the autons break through the window on the

1940
01:25:43.439 --> 01:25:46.020
high street, you know, people are aware of that, the disease hits

1941
01:25:46.020 --> 01:25:46.979
Marlerbone station.

1942
01:25:47.039 --> 01:25:51.420
Yeah, yeah, that everyone's watching Mars Probe 7 trying to link

1943
01:25:51.420 --> 01:25:53.520
up on television. people are aware of all that.

1944
01:25:53.579 --> 01:25:57.180
But we are moving away from that level of grittiness.

1945
01:25:57.239 --> 01:25:58.319
And perhaps we are losing something there.

1946
01:25:58.380 --> 01:26:02.100
Yeah, no, I think I think it is it is a bit of a giant mess

1947
01:26:02.100 --> 01:26:02.579
unfortunately.

1948
01:26:02.640 --> 01:26:05.460
I quite enjoyed the mess.

1949
01:26:05.520 --> 01:26:09.840
Like it moved along and there were a number of, you know, sequences

1950
01:26:09.840 --> 01:26:13.199
that I really enjoyed from Roger Delgado jumping on top of a

1951
01:26:13.199 --> 01:26:13.800
moving truck.

1952
01:26:13.859 --> 01:26:15.060
I'm sure that was here.

1953
01:26:15.119 --> 01:26:17.819
I was going, gee, that's a bit, you know?

1954
01:26:17.880 --> 01:26:22.319
And then, you know, then we get Benjamin Yates in the truck in

1955
01:26:22.319 --> 01:26:25.979
episode four, I think, aren't they being attacked by all the axons

1956
01:26:25.979 --> 01:26:31.739
and then and the blue sheet and Mike decides to blow up the van

1957
01:26:31.739 --> 01:26:34.140
with his grenade and they have to jump for it.

1958
01:26:34.199 --> 01:26:37.380
So there's a bit of action stuff happening and I have a graphic.

1959
01:26:37.439 --> 01:26:38.579
Almost certainly.

1960
01:26:38.699 --> 01:26:39.239
Yeah.

1961
01:26:39.300 --> 01:26:40.560
The time loop thing.

1962
01:26:40.619 --> 01:26:41.460
Does that make any sense to you?

1963
01:26:41.819 --> 01:26:46.079
I think it does, but it does.

1964
01:26:46.199 --> 01:26:46.859
It is Doctor Who.

1965
01:26:46.920 --> 01:26:47.819
I mean, do you know what I mean?

1966
01:26:47.880 --> 01:26:50.939
It doesn't make sense in the way they explain it.

1967
01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:53.760
It only makes sense once, you know, you're a bit more familiar

1968
01:26:53.760 --> 01:26:56.699
with science fiction. and have seen time loops and other things.

1969
01:26:57.479 --> 01:27:02.039
All we really needed to see, well, something on the axon ship

1970
01:27:02.039 --> 01:27:05.399
where the same few seconds played out over and over again, like

1971
01:27:05.399 --> 01:27:08.699
we'll see later in Meglos, like we see in quite a few episodes of

1972
01:27:08.699 --> 01:27:09.300
Star Trek.

1973
01:27:09.359 --> 01:27:12.899
That's the sort of standard acceptance of what a time loop is in

1974
01:27:12.899 --> 01:27:13.439
sci-fi.

1975
01:27:13.500 --> 01:27:16.439
And if we just had that, you know, I think that would have made

1976
01:27:16.439 --> 01:27:17.579
the idea a lot clearer.

1977
01:27:17.640 --> 01:27:20.340
Well, I mean, it just needs to be a trap that the doctor can get

1978
01:27:20.340 --> 01:27:22.920
Axos into using the TARDIS.

1979
01:27:22.979 --> 01:27:24.899
And so you call it a time loop, who cares?

1980
01:27:24.960 --> 01:27:25.619
Do you know what I mean?

1981
01:27:25.680 --> 01:27:29.760
Um, it could have been a time shoe box or, you know.

1982
01:27:29.939 --> 01:27:31.680
No, forget.

1983
01:27:31.739 --> 01:27:32.340
I said that.

1984
01:27:32.399 --> 01:27:32.939
Do you know what I mean?

1985
01:27:33.000 --> 01:27:33.779
But it could have been anything.

1986
01:27:33.840 --> 01:27:34.199
Okay.

1987
01:27:34.260 --> 01:27:37.319
So, I don't, I don't, you know, like, I'm not surprised that they

1988
01:27:37.319 --> 01:27:39.119
don't do a sort of loopy time thing.

1989
01:27:39.300 --> 01:27:45.060
I like the design of the axons, both in their corporal form and

1990
01:27:45.060 --> 01:27:46.439
when they depersonalise.

1991
01:27:46.500 --> 01:27:47.760
They do have zippers.

1992
01:27:47.819 --> 01:27:49.619
Oh, that's the chance.

1993
01:27:49.680 --> 01:27:50.880
Let's have a look at the action figure.

1994
01:27:50.939 --> 01:27:51.539
I got in here.

1995
01:27:51.600 --> 01:27:54.180
Oh, there's a sort of seam there, isn't there?

1996
01:27:54.239 --> 01:27:55.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1997
01:27:55.500 --> 01:27:57.420
Come to this, dear listener.

1998
01:27:57.479 --> 01:28:00.600
We're looking at action figures on an audio podcast.

1999
01:28:00.659 --> 01:28:03.060
So who plays Axeon Man?

2000
01:28:03.119 --> 01:28:03.600
Who is that?

2001
01:28:03.659 --> 01:28:05.819
That is Bernard Holly?

2002
01:28:05.880 --> 01:28:07.979
And he's been in it before. hasn't he?

2003
01:28:08.039 --> 01:28:10.979
Yes, he was Peter Hayden in Tom of the Cyberman.

2004
01:28:11.039 --> 01:28:12.840
Was he doing the accent?

2005
01:28:12.899 --> 01:28:14.520
No, no, he wasn't one of the Americans.

2006
01:28:14.579 --> 01:28:16.260
He's the one who gets killed at the end of episode one.

2007
01:28:16.319 --> 01:28:18.060
Oh, is he the one who opens the door?

2008
01:28:18.119 --> 01:28:19.859
No, not one.

2009
01:28:19.859 --> 01:28:20.640
Oh, at the end of episode.

2010
01:28:20.699 --> 01:28:21.779
Yeah, yeah, he gets shot.

2011
01:28:21.840 --> 01:28:24.539
So he's the one who sort of paired up with Jamie and there's a bit

2012
01:28:24.539 --> 01:28:27.119
of a broke back mountain thing going on.

2013
01:28:27.180 --> 01:28:32.579
Do you think it's kind of racist that when the axe on man says to

2014
01:28:32.579 --> 01:28:36.899
them about the frog, I trust this is one of your food animals and

2015
01:28:36.899 --> 01:28:38.399
they both say no.

2016
01:28:38.520 --> 01:28:41.340
They always say, you just have to hop across the English channel

2017
01:28:41.340 --> 01:28:43.020
for it to be one of our food animals.

2018
01:28:43.079 --> 01:28:47.220
See, I think it's actually playing into the theme of Britain

2019
01:28:47.220 --> 01:28:48.119
keeping it for themselves.

2020
01:28:48.180 --> 01:28:48.720
Britain.

2021
01:28:48.779 --> 01:28:52.020
Yeah, Britain's imperialism because Bob Baker and Dave Martin

2022
01:28:52.020 --> 01:28:55.380
whilst their ideas aren't very well organised, they're very good

2023
01:28:55.380 --> 01:28:56.760
at writing on theme.

2024
01:28:56.819 --> 01:29:00.539
And I think that's why their stories are often so chaotic because

2025
01:29:00.539 --> 01:29:03.659
all their ideas can relate that to a theme and, you know, the

2026
01:29:03.659 --> 01:29:05.340
theme here is imperialism.

2027
01:29:05.399 --> 01:29:09.300
The axons themselves are quite imperialistic because all they care

2028
01:29:09.300 --> 01:29:11.159
about is what they can use Earth for.

2029
01:29:11.220 --> 01:29:13.619
They don't care about pain and suffering they cause.

2030
01:29:13.680 --> 01:29:17.220
Similarly, all chin cares about is getting the concession for

2031
01:29:17.220 --> 01:29:20.939
England so England can keep all the money or Great Britain can

2032
01:29:20.939 --> 01:29:21.420
keep all the money.

2033
01:29:21.479 --> 01:29:24.600
And hence the doctor's obnoxious English, England for the English

2034
01:29:24.600 --> 01:29:26.340
beach, whereas yelling at cheating.

2035
01:29:26.399 --> 01:29:26.880
Yeah, exactly.

2036
01:29:26.939 --> 01:29:28.140
That's really good, isn't it?

2037
01:29:28.199 --> 01:29:31.319
So accentite's really like sort of glass beads that you give the

2038
01:29:31.319 --> 01:29:34.199
natives sort of thing before coming in and taking over their

2039
01:29:34.199 --> 01:29:34.859
entire planet.

2040
01:29:34.920 --> 01:29:36.479
Yeah absolutely. yeah.

2041
01:29:36.539 --> 01:29:37.140
Lovely.

2042
01:29:49.199 --> 01:29:51.600
You're quite lost.

2043
01:29:52.199 --> 01:29:53.520
I think it is the weakest.

2044
01:29:53.579 --> 01:29:55.260
Yeah, I think that's probably it.

2045
01:29:55.319 --> 01:29:58.619
Pertui never really gets too terrible.

2046
01:29:58.619 --> 01:30:01.680
But it's never that great either.

2047
01:30:01.739 --> 01:30:04.739
So the worst, you know, I think that probably Axos is the worst

2048
01:30:04.739 --> 01:30:06.899
story in the season, but it's not very bad.

2049
01:30:06.960 --> 01:30:08.939
No, no, it's still...

2050
01:30:09.000 --> 01:30:09.779
Yeah, still quite enjoyable.

2051
01:30:09.899 --> 01:30:12.720
I think I'm going to have to disagree on that one, but we'll find

2052
01:30:12.720 --> 01:30:14.460
out that more about that next episode.

2053
01:30:14.520 --> 01:30:15.899
So, clearly, listener.

2054
01:30:15.960 --> 01:30:18.960
We'll be back in a fortnight, discussing the last 2 stories of

2055
01:30:18.960 --> 01:30:22.739
this season, Colony in Space, and the Damons, as well as giving

2056
01:30:22.739 --> 01:30:26.579
our Jenny Laird awards, and our picks of the month, but until then

2057
01:30:26.579 --> 01:30:28.020
thank you very much for listening and good night.

2058
01:30:28.079 --> 01:30:28.739
Good night.

2059
01:30:28.859 --> 01:30:29.819
Bye.

2060
01:30:31.380 --> 01:30:34.920
Hello, hello, flight to entirety.

2061
01:30:34.979 --> 01:30:36.600
Hello, Todd, BLB.

2062
01:30:36.659 --> 01:30:38.699
Nathan Botany, and Brandon Jones.

2063
01:30:38.760 --> 01:30:41.640
All are increasingly Baroccan stupid.

2064
01:30:41.699 --> 01:30:43.800
Sunday, 8th of February.

2065
01:30:43.859 --> 01:30:46.920
Whoa, next episode or March 1st.

2066
01:30:46.979 --> 01:30:51.779
Our flight to entire view on Facebook and iTunes, our FG podcast

2067
01:30:51.779 --> 01:30:52.739
on Twitter.

2068
01:30:56.640 --> 01:31:01.680
And like fighting with Windsor and being like just completely

2069
01:31:01.680 --> 01:31:04.199
awful to him as well.

2070
01:31:04.319 --> 01:31:07.319
Including that really awful bit.

2071
01:31:07.380 --> 01:31:09.779
And you know, I've been saying, oh, no, it's all character in

2072
01:31:09.779 --> 01:31:10.079
that.

2073
01:31:10.079 --> 01:31:12.840
No, there is that really awful bit where pretty much the doctor

2074
01:31:12.840 --> 01:31:14.640
criticises what the brigadier is going to do.

2075
01:31:14.640 --> 01:31:17.100
And Joe says, that's right. you know, what use of shooting how to

2076
01:31:17.100 --> 01:31:17.399
go back?

2077
01:31:17.460 --> 01:31:19.800
He is your commanding officer, German, you should serve some

2078
01:31:19.800 --> 01:31:20.939
respect. in the demons.

2079
01:31:21.000 --> 01:31:21.960
Fucker.

2080
01:31:23.279 --> 01:31:25.319
There's the credits.

2081
01:31:26.640 --> 01:31:31.020
You know, I've been compiling a list of his most obnoxious

2082
01:31:31.020 --> 01:31:31.380
moments.