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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:15:54

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Hello, day listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that's always been able to imagine being a forest.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Pete.

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And I'm Mark.

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Well, it's Christmas Day, which means it's time for turkey, eggnog, and admitting to all your friends and relatives that you faked your death 2 years ago just to avoid them.

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And it's also time to strip mine another literary Christmas classic.

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It's the doctor, the widow, and the wardrobe.

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All right, I'm gonna ask people a question.

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Are people familiar with the lion, the witch and the wardrobe?

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Over here?

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Definitely of my age, I think.

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Yeah, it was a book that it was every school child raid.

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And that's pre-BBC 90s adaptation.

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So, yeah, what about you, Mark?

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Annoyingly, younger demographic than me.

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Was it something that was on your radar, pre-TV as well?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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It was definitely probably red, red at school.

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So it's not even just something that was big for our age group, but was like a set text or whatever.

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And then I was probably exactly the right age for the BBC adaptation, which I probably even saw Tom Baker in before I watched any Doctor Who.

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I was probably that kind of age.

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It was probably the 1st thing I ever saw him in.

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Yeah, so he plays paddle glum in the silver chair, I think.

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I vaguely remember that adaptation.

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Did you ever see that?

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I did.

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I did.

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I saw a little bit of it.

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I wasn't that much into it, and I think I either must never recognise Tom Baker or I didn't see the silver chair.

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The funny thing was, I remember at high school because I was a little swat, I was often in the English department book room fetching the books and there was every book in the series in there and I knew it as a book series.

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I think, though, I was most familiar with the young ones sketch where the white queen offers Vivian Turkish delight.

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Um, but the funny thing is, like, the books were in there in the English department bookroom, we never learned any of the books in any year.

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I was at high school.

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I don't remember any of my friends mentioning it. either.

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So I think those books had like been in there before us and were just not used for ages.

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So it was always his mythical thing.

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I think there were a huge thing to that wartime generation, the people who were evacuated, especially because that's sort of where the setting of it starts.

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And so, yeah, there's that sort of handed down from parents to children aspect to it here as well.

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All of whom, however, would know, checking from the publishing date in the front page, that it's not out of copyright yet.

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And I wonder at what point that dropped into the writer's mind while creating this particular Doctor Who episode that he couldn't quite do.

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How do I do a Charles Dickens on this one?

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these movies.

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Yeah, maybe we make it a bit less wardrobey and a bit less liony to avoid setting alarm bells ringing in that department.

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It sort of strikes me that it's not the sort of thing that Stephen Moffatt would have a lot of sympathy for, and he absolutely doesn't do anything beyond just a very, very kind of superficial use of some of its imagery, really.

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I mean, so the wartime evacuation to a big house in the country, the Christmas setting, the sort of wintry setting of the planet.

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But otherwise, it's really nothing at all, like, the source material, unlike last year, where basically, he just did a version of a Christmas Carol crossed with a Disney movie.

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Here he's kind of left with less to do with the source material.

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Early on in FTE's run, and I don't know if people remember this because it was a long time ago.

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I mentioned that C.S. Lewis was on my enemies list.

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I think he was probably a terrible person.

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And I have a bit of a loathing for the line, the winch and the wardrobe.

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And I think part of the thing is that I think Aslan is a terrible bully.

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And C.S. Lewis sort of co-ops people's feelings about Jesus sacrifice and sort of tries to attach them to his sort of rather horrible cartoon line.

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And so I'm always sort of quite cross with him about that.

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And, you know, there's obviously a lot of sexism and racism in Narnia.

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It has been sort of well rehearsed, I think. women drivers.

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Well, Stephen Moffat.

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We'll get there.

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Well, Stephen Moffatt has said was, you know, he read it as a child as well.

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And as a child, any Christian imagery and algorithm just went straight over his head.

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Yeah.

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So rather than going for a direct adaptation, which, yes, may indeed have been to do with the fact it's still in copyright because it was only published in 1950.

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As, you know, as well as that, he was sort of writing it from his childhood memory.

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And I think that's why you get the sort of crib notes version of you have something vaguely wardrobe shaped.

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And it's like, the whole title is a lie, right?

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Yeah, so there is no wardrobe.

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There is no wardrobe.

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There is no widow.

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And the doctor is hardly referred to as the doctor throughout the whole story.

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He's the caretaker.

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Yeah.

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Yes, it is another nerd baiting title, I think.

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He does, he refers to the TARDIS's wardrobe, doesn't he?

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It doesn't cover it.

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I don't know.

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Crew barring it in a bit.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, definitely the Christian stuff sailed over my head when I was a kid watching and reading this as well and I'm sure it wasn't any part of the teaching about it either.

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But I think the evacuee side of it, I think I remember was what was the lesson, like that this is what happened, that kids were taken from big cities to houses in the country that could accommodate them and stuff because there's other, I think it's wrong.

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Tom's Midnight Garden or the Secret Garden.

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There's other books like that that you read as a kid, aren't there, about evacuees and stuff?

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So it's quite a quite an evocative thing, I think.

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And the 2 girls in Curse of Fenrich, obviously.

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Yes.

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Evil in that hat.

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It's actually a refreshing change, I think, to have a Christmas special that's not sort of said in the present day.

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And so obviously, once again, we're getting Moffatt taking a different sort of tack.

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I mean, the next doctor was set in Victorian times.

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And here, though, we have a 2nd World War story and I think that it actually works really well.

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That mid-20th century thing is great.

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And I think it suits Claire Skinner as well.

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Yeah, and that's fascinating because she's such a big star at this point.

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The night before this went out, she has the outnumbered Christmas special, which is the biggest comedy show on TV of the period where she plays middle class mum with her 3 kids in the modern day.

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And so yeah, it was really Claire Skinner's Christmas on BBC One this year.

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And I thought, yeah, and this story, it felt like a real palate cleanser after the whole everything of the previous year of like how complex and how many different, how many things can be bunged into one Doctor Who story.

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Oh, if only we knew. previous year.

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But and this year, the female league doesn't get locked in a fridge while men do the ethics and has to come out and sing as a sad song once in a while.

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So I do like her having a more a much more front and centred role as the female lead of this story.

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Are we going to have a companion discussion because she gets her name in the credits.

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I think that's, but so does Kylie, is Kylie a companion.

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So does John Sim.

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Yeah.

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Cribben's count.

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We've got a new we have a new category in our collection now, don't we?

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light in Ghost Light. of a big, someone who's big enough to get their name in the opening credits, but too big to actually come back to do this day and day out unless they're as awesome as Catherine Tate.

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There we go.

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That's the name of that category of person I've just invented.

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Sure, the acronym will be marvellous.

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It is a cast made up of a lot of people known for comedy, isn't it?

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So class can, like, say, massively best known for outnumbered Alexander Armstrong at this point, best known for Armstrong and Miller.

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And as you say, where she's been cast as the mum, being best known for playing the much harassed mum in outnumbered.

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I'm sorry, another one of the famous sketches is the World War II pilots sketch.

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So I assumed that this was like a sort of a shorthand for casual viewers because, you know, the whole idea that more people watch talk to on Christmas Day that don't normally watch it.

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But I read in the complete history that Andy Pryor hadn't realised that that he just cast it. knowing yet.

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Armstrong just has that vibe.

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In fact, both of them have sort of good Doctor Who pedigrees.

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So Claire Skinner was married to Charles Palmer at one point, who directed Doctor Who and is the son of Jeffrey Palmer.

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Alexander Armstrong, of course, hangs out behind Sarah Jane's attic.

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Oh, Peter Tottenham style. not having to rehearse anything as Mr. Smith.

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There's a moment in his final scene where he's up in the, he goes up in the attic and he just looks around and it's almost like, yeah, maybe I could be at home in an attic, like, in a big old house one day.

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Just sort of verbally.

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Because, of course, I think also, between series 5 and six, you had Matt Smith on Sarah Jane Adventures as well. with Liz and Katie.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. written by Russell T. Davis for the only time, I think.

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And Alexandra, I'm sure it's technically been in Doctor Who because he's in the stallen earth journeys end of crossover, isn't he, as well?

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Oh, yes, of course, yes.

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And then we have 3 other people who are sort of well known for comedy, former Doctor Who, unbound actor Arabella Weir, is here, Bill Bailey, who is a very vocal Doctor Who fan, I think, appears here for the 1st time, and we also have Paul Bazley, who I didn't know, but he has, you know, like a massive IMDb page, and has never not worked.

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So he must have been a fairly familiar phase.

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Bill Bailey is one of those brilliant people for Doctor Who fandom exports, like to the normal people.

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He tells Dr. New Joke in stadiums with 20,000 people in them and everyone laughs.

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He's got that knack.

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It's an amazing thing to house.

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And it's a really small role.

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I know people, that's the sort of role where people can say, oh, it's a, you know, it's a month that big.

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I think he's become even bigger since then. why wasn't he given a massive role?

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But if he's available and you've got a small role, you would just jump, wouldn't you?

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and it's Christmas.

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And yeah, Arabella Weir is brilliant in this and it does sort of heal some of the wounds of that horrifically frightening conceptually.

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I mean, horrifically frightening big finish where she plays the 1st female doctor, who has turned into a woman because the doctor committed suicide and that's the time lord punishment for it, and she's an alcoholic who jokes about boobs all the time because she's a woman.

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And I didn't get to the end actually.

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Maybe, maybe, maybe it twists in God.

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Anyway, lovely to see her anyway. 2 doors down.

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Which is one of the biggest sitcoms.

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Well, it's not because it should be.

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It's a niche sitcom. you ever see it, track it down.

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She's the female lead in that, along with stink from Flux, is one of the stars of that too.

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The 2 people who aren't Bill Bailey, so Arabella Weir and Paul Bailey are playing Billis and Wenger, who were named for departing executive producers Beth Willis.

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Oh my god.

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Piers Wenger.

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Which makes me think that Droxel is Stephen Moffat constantly turning around to his other executive producers like, will you focus, please?

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And if that's the case, Beth Willis was probably constantly tapping Stephen on the shoulder and saying, um, so are we going to address the fact that Amy is going through massive trauma?

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Or do you think women just bounce back from this, Stephen?

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All that stuff about a visual.

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You know, it's a bad visual. you know, pointing a gun at Claire Skinner on Christmas Day.

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I actually think that that scene is surprisingly funny.

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Moffatt can write clever sitcom dialogue, but this episode has kind of the feel of him being a bit tapped out, to be honest, but I do think that's funny.

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I think it's surprising how little comedy business Arabella Weir gets to do, but in a way, just thematically with how this episode works and will definitely come to that.

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She is the one who's not an idiot because she's a woman.

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And she's really quite sympathetic.

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I think she plays it really well, like the way that she is careful with Claire Skinner's feelings.

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Do you know what I've forgotten her character's name?

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Is she Madge?

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Marjorie?

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Madge Madge.

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You got imagine Reg.

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Imagine Reg, of course you do.

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I give you into Marge, as in Simpsons, and it's not.

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It's much like neighbours. they great?

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Yes.

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And they're all great 1940s names.

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Or 30s.

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Because there's a bit of a bit of a haze over when this is set, isn't it?

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Because it starts before the war, and then we get a caption saying 3 years later, but then the telegram with his death on only says like 1941 or something, you know, I'm not quite sure which German city is on his way back from obliterating.

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But we have to pin it down on some, in a plane that apparently hadn't been invented then, the Lancaster bomber didn't come along to the lake.

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But that's.

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That's getting too picky.

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For God's sake, have a sharing.

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We've leapt into the main story, of course.

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There's that bit, I'm going to get this out of my system, because I'm going to find this very difficult to say, but the beginning bit, with getting a whole, here's your expectation of a Russell T. Davis Christmas special.

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We're on a spaceship, everything's blowing up.

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And just blowing it all up in the 1st 30 odd seconds is clever.

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There we go.

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I said it.

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I've said Moffett is clever.

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I've done it for a long time.

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And I, yeah, I've got it out my system.

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Because that is a really fun way of starting it off and play with their expectations.

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The doctor plummeting through space, his hair bellowing in the wind as he manages to put on a spacesuit and which has a reversible helmet somehow.

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We'll just have to sort of roll with that because it makes it funny when he lands.

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Yeah, I think it also is so that Madge obviously doesn't recognise him when he turns up 3 years later.

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So she's never seen his face.

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And there are sort of some jokes to be had, I think.

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Like that 1st scene is actually really rather charming and good at establishing what's going on here and certainly establishing her character.

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Yeah, I miss Roger Moore too with that bit.

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Yeah.

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Going through the sky.

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It's how didn't bellow.

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It was much more secure.

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Get real gone.

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That's what occurred to me that it seemed to be homaging a lot of films that we used to be on at Christmas when I was younger, saw the Star Wars opening, the sort of the moonraker, like you say, the Roger Moore chasing the parachute.

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And then when he crashes away, it's almost like Superman, isn't it?

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sort of like crashing into a field in sort of countryside location.

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So these were, you know, before in the UK we had sort of sky moves and things like that, the big movies they were put on over Christmas, so it's quite evocative in that way as well, I think.

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Oh, I think Russell's mind that before, hasn't he?

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I mean, Voyage of the Damned is a sort of Poseidon adventure.

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00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:20.940
Homage, I think.

207
00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:32.640
Yeah, and it does kind of, but it makes me less worried about why we don't get Christmas specials anymore because they really had done them all over the course of, there's more to come yet as we go through this era.

208
00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:34.500
The Muffet era.

209
00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:42.660
But they couldn't just keep doing that year in year out or doing the opposite of it, which you can also do, but there comes a point where it's like, how much more Christmas you can Doctor Who be.

210
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:47.099
In fact, the only thing they haven't done, which I really want, is Doctor Who does Gremlins, because that's my thing.

211
00:17:47.099 --> 00:17:49.140
That's an open door.

212
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:50.640
Russell D. Davis if you're listening.

213
00:17:50.700 --> 00:17:55.200
Well, Wizard versus Aliens did Gremlins in very early episode.

214
00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:57.420
And it's particularly good, I think.

215
00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:00.539
You could do a Christmas special with a bunch of patings.

216
00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:04.859
Oh, eating London for things that ate London.

217
00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:09.000
Russell, call us.

218
00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:12.720
The tings of comfort and joy.

219
00:18:14.220 --> 00:18:19.019
We 3 patings of...

220
00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:29.819
Meeting Madge, her 1st scene with her son, little miniadric.

221
00:18:30.180 --> 00:18:34.259
It's fantastically concise and great.

222
00:18:34.259 --> 00:18:37.500
And the way she burbles all the stuff about, and there was a spaceman or possibly an angel.

223
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:38.039
That's it.

224
00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:38.579
You know this person.

225
00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.279
You know this woman. and you like her.

226
00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:51.000
I think everyone would like, and she's just immediately a loveable and real person, which is a very hard thing to land, and that's good writing and really good acting to do that.

227
00:18:51.059 --> 00:18:54.779
Yeah, the little kid, he's doing exactly what he's been asked to do.

228
00:18:54.839 --> 00:19:04.319
I mean, and it's quite funny that what's he doing in the garden, agriculture, like, it immediately made me think of 4 to Doomsday, and Adric saying, pass the sodium chloride.

229
00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:07.559
I'm a child genius and that's how we speak.

230
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:21.839
I actually think that that it's super adorable because she gives this sort of big flustered explanation that Cyril is supposed to give Reg when he arrives and Cyril just says she's out.

231
00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:23.819
And I think that's terribly cute.

232
00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:32.519
And I also think characterising Lily as a bit of an idiot because she thinks that all of Cyril's big words are just made up.

233
00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:35.039
She doesn't think they're real words at all.

234
00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:38.039
And she's not going to be fooled by him into thinking they are.

235
00:19:38.099 --> 00:19:39.779
You're just saying things.

236
00:19:41.819 --> 00:20:13.920
Something I love so much about those scenes is, you know, when we've gone back to roughly this period in history in modern Doctor Who, the empty child, the idiot's lantern, the colours are all quite muted because we always think of the past in muted colour because it was either in black and white or CPR or very early colour systems, but I love how vibrant and vivid the colours are, and they don't even go for the tempting option of they're vibrant and vivid in 1938, but then in 194 when everything's terrible, everything's kind of dark and gloomy.

237
00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:19.740
It's like, no, the house they go to is still incredibly colourful. possibly because the doctors come in and fixed all these faults.

238
00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:21.660
I love that thing.

239
00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:22.380
It works normally.

240
00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:24.000
Oh, well, that's a fault. fix that.

241
00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:27.240
So let's talk about that.

242
00:20:27.299 --> 00:20:34.740
So we 1st meet the doctor again out of the suit when he sort of turns up at Uncle Thing's house.

243
00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:36.299
Big V.

244
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:39.240
Uncle Digby from their Grey Uncle.

245
00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:42.720
They snuck that in from line, the witch and the wardrobe, past the copyright people.

246
00:20:44.579 --> 00:20:47.880
And who's in a sanatorium in...

247
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:50.339
No, I think he's in aged care facility or something like that.

248
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:51.059
That's the idea.

249
00:20:51.539 --> 00:20:53.400
In Battersea.

250
00:20:53.460 --> 00:20:55.200
He's in the dog's home.

251
00:20:55.259 --> 00:20:57.779
He's Digby the biggest dog in the world.

252
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:11.400
And so this part of Matt's performance is something that I'm not actually totally on board with.

253
00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:14.220
And I'm a massive fan of man.

254
00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:40.079
He is, as I've said many times, my favourite doctor, but I start to suspect that rather than giving him interesting things to do that he spins and does in a really sort of remarkably interesting way, here, we're just relying on him being a bit zany, and I think it's probably a little bit too much.

255
00:21:40.140 --> 00:21:47.759
Maybe it's Christmas and we can get away with it, but I'm not a massive fan of him in these scenes.

256
00:21:48.000 --> 00:22:00.599
The bit with the dancing chairs has gone down in Lambert family law, as I was watching with my assembled nephews, nieces and whatnot, and the chairs all started dancing around, and Murray Gold is throwing an orchestra at you, telling you how funny it is.

257
00:22:00.660 --> 00:22:04.380
And I just, and I just went, oh, Jesus, effing.

258
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:07.079
At which point the doctor goes, I know.

259
00:22:08.700 --> 00:22:18.599
No, I'm doing that. and then he keeps doing that again and again. and it just, yeah, it tips him into overly zainly smug zone, which doesn't land right with me.

260
00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:25.380
Whereas earlier, like the bit with picking the lock in the police box that they thought was the TARDIS, there's a bit of funny business there with Claire Turner.

261
00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:27.900
And the music stops, it's just a funny moment.

262
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:37.559
And so that was laugh out loud, funny for me, but later, when I've got an orchestra yelling at me that I ought to be laughing or having any other emotional response, it actually deadens the response that I have to the drama.

263
00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:39.000
But I know that's just a matter of tone.

264
00:22:39.059 --> 00:22:40.259
People would draw that line in different places.

265
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:47.099
I do want to shout out for the use of like what is clearly stop motion.

266
00:22:47.160 --> 00:23:00.660
Like, it's, uh, it looks incredibly cheesy, and I'm absolutely on board with that, given that, you know, given that it's Christmas, it really looks aggressively silly, and there's no way that that's not what they're going for.

267
00:23:01.859 --> 00:23:06.359
I think there's also some kind of narrative confusion at this point.

268
00:23:06.539 --> 00:23:35.339
Because, so the doctor says to Madge, at the end of that 1st meeting, if you ever need me, just make a wish, and the kids make a wish, don't they, just before they go to Uncle Digby's, I think, at the end of an early scene, when we already know that the father is dead, and she's not telling them, right?

269
00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:44.700
And so it's not clear that the doctor knows what's going on with the family.

270
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:45.059
Is it?

271
00:23:45.539 --> 00:23:48.480
No, I don't think he knows.

272
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:50.880
I think as they pull the wishbone apart.

273
00:23:50.940 --> 00:24:03.779
Madge closes her eyes and makes a wish sort of silently then, and we know that the doctor is passing by between the earth and the moon because it's, you know, through the telescope sort of thing.

274
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:05.039
So I think that's what he picks up on.

275
00:24:05.099 --> 00:24:16.440
But I think, and I agree about his performance being very broad and zany in this episode, in the way that Christmas episodes have to choose is that bit broader for, you know, people are only tuning on Christmas Day.

276
00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:20.700
But I do think the scene where Madge tells him that Reg just died.

277
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:28.319
He plays that brilliantly and I really, really like that scene and I read it, that that is him learning what the situation is.

278
00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:38.160
I think everything up to that point, he's just thought, right, I just want to give these people a great Christmas because I owe them for saving him 3 years prior.

279
00:24:38.220 --> 00:24:50.339
I wonder whether it would have worked better, though, if he knew or we knew that he knew and he's trying to distract them from it.

280
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:54.779
And certainly, I think that scene that you mentioned, Mark, is absolutely superb.

281
00:24:54.839 --> 00:25:13.500
And the speech that he gives, where he says, where he tells Madge why she's shouting at the children, and she's shouting at them because she knows and they don't, and she can't bear to watch them being happy when they're going to be sad later.

282
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:19.920
And so what's the point of them being happy now and the doctor says it's because they're going to be sad later.

283
00:25:19.980 --> 00:25:23.220
And it's one of those things, you know, like, I don't know.

284
00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:37.079
Stephen Moffat is able to write dialogue for the doctor, a man who can't tell whether a woman is pregnant or not just by looking at her, that is incredibly wise and insightful.

285
00:25:37.140 --> 00:25:40.380
And I think that that's actually really quite a beautiful speech.

286
00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:43.799
Yeah, that lands, that really lands perfectly that bit.

287
00:25:43.859 --> 00:25:44.759
I didn't really get you.

288
00:25:44.819 --> 00:25:49.140
Because Doctor Who, for me and for a lot of people, gets you through some very difficult times as well.

289
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.920
It is that it's pure escapism that, you know, as a kid and everything.

290
00:25:52.980 --> 00:26:01.440
So I think that ties in beautifully with that with these kids, you know, they're about to go through something horrific and he can be there to distract them like that.

291
00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:12.000
Yeah, I mean, after I watched the episode this morning, I sent a message to the FTE group chat saying, guess how many times I cried during the doctor, the widow, and the wardrobe.

292
00:26:12.059 --> 00:26:13.259
The answer will not surprise you.

293
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:37.440
Um, but that's the 1st scene I cry in, and, you know, having seen Doctor Who as many times as I have, most of it multiple times, that's the scene where I am full-blown, eyes scrunched up, can't see the television, crying, and that speech by Matt about not being able to be happy because you know how sad they're going to be or how sad you're going to be.

294
00:26:37.500 --> 00:26:39.660
I thought, 0 my god, that's depression for a lot of people.

295
00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:41.519
That's how depression hits for a lot of people.

296
00:26:41.579 --> 00:26:44.819
If they already have it and they experience a happy emotion.

297
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:47.579
It'll suddenly be forestalled by, well, what's the point?

298
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:49.619
I'm not going to feel like this in a couple of hours.

299
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:51.359
And it's like, well that's the point.

300
00:26:51.420 --> 00:26:53.579
You know, you can remember that.

301
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:58.740
In terms of what he's doing for the family, watching this off the back of series 6.

302
00:26:59.099 --> 00:27:20.220
Even though Amy Rory and River all come out at the end of it and they're all alive, the doctor still has let a family down, that he's really close to, and I kind of see this as his atonement, and that's bookended at the end when he says to Madge that he can't go see them, and she's like, well, I don't care about your excuses.

303
00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:22.559
You're going, young man.

304
00:27:22.859 --> 00:27:27.539
I agree with you, Mark, that I think he knows something is wrong, but he doesn't know what.

305
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:32.039
So he's just going to turn up and give them the best Christmas possible.

306
00:27:32.099 --> 00:27:37.079
But of course, being the Matt Smith doctor who doesn't quite understand how humans work.

307
00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:42.779
He just throws everything at it humanly possible, just everything at the problem.

308
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:45.779
But then he finds out the exact nature of the problem.

309
00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:48.420
And he pulls back on the smugness after that.

310
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:58.319
And sort of when Lily comes up to see him, he doesn't do sort of grandiose, grandstanding or whatever, he's just, oh, you know, that's that, how can you fix a wardrobe?

311
00:27:58.380 --> 00:27:59.460
have you seen how I dress?

312
00:28:01.259 --> 00:28:04.079
I think too, perhaps then.

313
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:16.319
There is something about Matt Smith's doctor that is kind of Stephen Moffat's picture of what men are like, right?

314
00:28:16.380 --> 00:28:18.000
So he's a man child.

315
00:28:18.059 --> 00:28:25.559
He likes being bossed around by strong women, as perhaps does Stephen Moffat.

316
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:28.019
And here he doesn't know when to stop.

317
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:35.279
And he's not particularly good at judging or helping other people with their emotions.

318
00:28:35.339 --> 00:28:39.000
And so he just goes gets out of hand here.

319
00:28:39.059 --> 00:28:56.819
And that has to be being contrasted with Claire Skinner as the mother because all of this stuff will eventually be about motherhood and how important the role of the mother is.

320
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:15.240
And so the father, who, you know, Matt Smith standing in for in this sort of situation, is an idiot who does kind of big grandstandy gestures and stuff, but doesn't really understand the emotional complexity of what's going on and isn't properly able to look after them.

321
00:29:15.539 --> 00:29:18.779
The 11th doctor is the sort of the poshist.

322
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:23.339
Well, they're all, obviously, they're all old doctors, they're all new doctors.

323
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:36.180
He's definitely the posh. he's got that air of being the public schoolboy who didn't get expelled, whereas I think the 3rd the 3rd doctor being in a in a posh public school and began getting expelled out as pert we was, seems more more credible.

324
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:46.740
But I do find it, watching Matt Smith's doctor now, uh, after having seen him as a young Prince Philip in the crown, is where, where he has to, always tones down the poshunist a little bit to be Prince Philip.

325
00:29:48.059 --> 00:29:55.380
I just I just see him giving the amazing lines like when he sees meets Princess Margaret's fiancee and said, I thought he was a crap.

326
00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:59.339
I can't get that out of my head now when I see the 11th knock.

327
00:30:00.900 --> 00:30:06.420
But yes, the doctor's recklessness that sets in motion, the situation, isn't it?

328
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.720
Which is already done before he knows what the situation is with the family.

329
00:30:09.779 --> 00:30:16.140
And I suppose you don't know whether he's still going to go ahead with it because he's the wires and the cables.

330
00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:19.980
He's tinkering with, sort of alert him to the fact that the little boy's gone through.

331
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:26.700
But you don't know whether he's planning something different at that point or still going to go ahead with taking them to the planet.

332
00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:29.400
Which isn't called Narnia.

333
00:30:29.460 --> 00:30:30.119
What's that called?

334
00:30:30.180 --> 00:30:32.400
Well, it's not named, is it?

335
00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:33.839
It's nanny a business.

336
00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:37.319
That's why they're in the lamp.

337
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:38.519
Oh, there is a lamp post, isn't it?

338
00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:51.599
I love the little lampost glimpse that we get, right at the end where the doctor comes looks out of the tower. and he looks up to the sky and we see there is an outdoor lamp outside that tower that's in the exact style of the Narnia lamp post, which is a very nice little touch there.

339
00:30:51.660 --> 00:30:54.480
Aren't we on an Andrazani?

340
00:30:55.559 --> 00:31:01.380
Well, Bill Bailey Etau are from Andrasani Major.

341
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:06.240
But we don't, we don't know where this, where this planet's from.

342
00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:08.759
It's probably the 4th moon of Andrasani major or something.

343
00:31:08.819 --> 00:31:10.559
It's the planet from Galaxy 4.

344
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:11.519
Okay.

345
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:13.380
Named planet.

346
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:19.500
Yeah, just 200 years earlier. 200 years of planting forests and they're melting them.

347
00:31:21.180 --> 00:31:24.720
With acid rain sprayed from space.

348
00:31:24.779 --> 00:31:32.579
Now, as someone whose favourite story often gets criticised for being unsubtle in its environmental message, I think this one's pretty unsubtle as well as Orphan 55.

349
00:31:33.180 --> 00:31:39.000
I actually have giant tanks of acid spraying onto your trees really does make that point.

350
00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:40.799
But I'm on board for that.

351
00:31:40.859 --> 00:31:57.660
And of course, we get that lovely bit, the lovely, what's the word, resonance when the stars are coming out of the trees because death is raining from the skies, so the stars are all evacuating and it ties up nicely with the kids being evacuees themselves at the beginning. a nice, a nice wrap up of beginning to end.

352
00:31:58.200 --> 00:32:23.220
Yeah, yeah. um I remember at the time, my visceral reaction to this was that there's no moustache twirling villain, you know, there's certainly, I'd say the Andrazani tree loppers are antagonists, but they're not villains and they're kind of bumbling and incompetent at what have you.

353
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:27.180
And the Wooden King and Wooden Queen aren't villains.

354
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:29.339
And, you know, we find that out.

355
00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:36.720
And yeah, you can argue the corporation doing the acid rain, our villains, but they're not involved in the story.

356
00:32:36.779 --> 00:32:38.640
Who the villain is is not important.

357
00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:44.460
It's all about saving the tree spirits and saving the Arwells.

358
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:47.339
And I think that's really lovely.

359
00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:54.779
I've said before that I'm not a big fan of a Christmas carol just because of the sort of time manipulation and whatnot.

360
00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:57.900
But I acknowledge it's a very clever piece of writing and very well acted.

361
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:13.319
This, I feel like because the doctor is more open and more honest about what is happening than Madge's actions and heroism. resonate a lot more.

362
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:19.200
And it feels like a far more triumphant ending than a Christmas carol does, despite the fact that involves...

363
00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:26.640
Well, I was about to say it involves fewer people, but it also involves a planet full of like little Magara. floating off and being rescued.

364
00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:34.319
I love at the end, the doctor says, well, they've migrated to a higher plane of, I don't know, they just float off into space or something. doesn't matter.

365
00:33:34.380 --> 00:33:36.599
It's pretty much what happened to them.

366
00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:42.119
Although Madge does get the line and a little setting my teeth on edge moment, which happened a few times in this era.

367
00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:47.819
Madge turns to someone else as the script is happening to her and says, oh, this is all really rather clever.

368
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:54.299
An autorial note to self that accidentally got her name written in front of it.

369
00:33:55.019 --> 00:34:06.599
I have to say that I enjoyed the complexity of series CX even if I think there were significant lapses in taste from time to time.

370
00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:13.019
And so I actually found this one just a little bit empty.

371
00:34:13.019 --> 00:34:17.280
And it's because I'm a massive fan of a Christmas carol.

372
00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:21.000
I think it's extraordinary and really clever and very moving.

373
00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:24.539
Whereas I think...

374
00:34:24.539 --> 00:34:27.539
It's very linear for a Moffat.

375
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:35.280
There is one thing where something at the end of the episode causes something to happen right at the beginning of the episode.

376
00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:49.380
So there is at least one little bit that's out of chronological order, but after the sort of riotous successes of series 6, it just seemed a little bit spare and just a little bit simple.

377
00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:56.699
And even the fact that the aliens sort of don't have their own voices and barely speak.

378
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:58.440
And so it is...

379
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.699
I mean, at Christmas the rules are different, aren't they?

380
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:09.780
It doesn't really have to be a Doctor Who adventure as such, it can be a sort of short story, which is almost what this is.

381
00:35:09.900 --> 00:35:14.579
And the doctor also operates under different principles at Christmas.

382
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:23.460
So last year he went back and interfered with someone's past in a way that he would never do otherwise, but it's Christmas and he got the idea from Charles Dickens.

383
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:31.559
And here the doctor can be called upon by making a wish because he's essentially kind of magical.

384
00:35:31.619 --> 00:35:33.719
And like, I think that's okay.

385
00:35:33.780 --> 00:35:39.420
I do think that's okay, but it just seemed to lack incident and stuff like that.

386
00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:53.639
I was on board with the loss and triumphant return of Reg as sort of really good, proper emotional moments, but the rest of it didn't really wow me.

387
00:35:53.699 --> 00:35:56.280
It's kind of a palate cleanser, isn't it?

388
00:35:56.340 --> 00:36:01.980
After that previous year of completely insane over the top jumble of things all going on.

389
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:03.539
And I could see why they went for that.

390
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:03.840
Yeah.

391
00:36:03.900 --> 00:36:05.699
But I was kind of like, I don't know.

392
00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:06.360
I'd get right.

393
00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:07.860
Hoping is the wrong word to use.

394
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:13.800
I'm just going to say in my mind's eye, there was a version of this that ends with the reapers arriving to collect reg.

395
00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:21.179
That would be the more gremlins.

396
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:25.860
But I mean, he never dies. like she doesn't change time.

397
00:36:25.980 --> 00:36:37.739
What had always happened was that he had followed her when she had gone back in the past to the 20th of December and that's why he went missing because he went forward to Christmas Day.

398
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:40.920
He took a shortcut, which they say in the dialogue.

399
00:36:40.980 --> 00:36:42.780
So time hasn't been changed.

400
00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:44.880
It's just happened in the wrong order, I think.

401
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:48.539
Yeah, I wonder what happened to the rest of his crew.

402
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:50.159
I just...

403
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:51.239
Yeah, where were I?

404
00:36:51.300 --> 00:36:53.219
It got dark out there.

405
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:55.380
We thought we were never going to make it back and I was really hungry.

406
00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:59.579
They were way, although, they were weighing me down.

407
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:04.079
Well, one of them is injured, aren't they?

408
00:37:04.139 --> 00:37:06.420
So I think the other one is tending to the injured man.

409
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:07.679
That's Yeah.

410
00:37:07.739 --> 00:37:08.460
Oh okay.

411
00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:10.619
There are a bunch of sort of scene trims.

412
00:37:10.619 --> 00:37:18.360
And in one of those, as Reg and Badger reuniting on the lawn, the hatch pops open at the top of the bomber and the co-pilot pops it out.

413
00:37:18.420 --> 00:37:22.079
Sir, what, in fact, is happening.

414
00:37:22.980 --> 00:37:29.880
And I think they cut it because Alexander Armstrong's reply is very twee, which is, I told you, we're home for Christmas.

415
00:37:29.940 --> 00:37:31.260
Check on headless.

416
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:42.420
And, you know, I think that's the kind of thing you can just assume that after a bit of a snog, they went, oh, crap, I've got a man with a ruptured spleen, because someone call a hospital.

417
00:37:55.679 --> 00:38:04.980
I felt exactly the same way as you, Nathan, that, because I unashamedly love Stephen Moffatt and the complexity and the cleverness and everything that Pete hates about it.

418
00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:09.599
So yeah, I found the same as this one.

419
00:38:09.659 --> 00:38:13.500
It's very, it's very linear, straightforward A to B sort of story.

420
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:19.199
And I think I, to be honest, tend to sort of probably miss it out and rewatches a little bit as well because it's not essential in any way.

421
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:34.139
And, uh, and and also I think a little bit, because my dad died when I was 9 and it reminds me a little bit of that as well, I think, you know, my mum sort of, you know, doing her best at that and, you know, trying to sort of feel that gap.

422
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:41.880
So it's, uh, yeah, I think same as you, Brendan, very emotional watch at times, you know, in various scenes.

423
00:38:41.940 --> 00:38:44.820
I think those bits really, really land.

424
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:52.559
I'm really pleased to watch it again, actually, for after so long because it's, I did really enjoy it this time, whereas I'd kind of dismissed it a little bit, I think, in the past.

425
00:38:53.579 --> 00:38:57.780
I think Moffat is constantly reacting against himself as well.

426
00:38:57.780 --> 00:39:06.360
And so next year, he will do none of the complexity really that characterise series 6 or even five.

427
00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:20.820
And that's a thing he kind of staggers back and forth from year to year from one extreme to another, reacting against things he did in the previous season in a way where Russell has a very consistent vision for what Doctor Who is.

428
00:39:21.659 --> 00:39:27.719
Moffatt is a bit more experimental, I think, which is why sometimes he falls over spectacularly.

429
00:39:27.780 --> 00:39:31.739
But when he hits it, you know, it's really quite amazing.

430
00:39:31.739 --> 00:39:34.559
Yeah, I think things land here.

431
00:39:34.619 --> 00:39:35.400
Yeah.

432
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:48.539
Something I totally love about Siri 6 is how Moffatt and the other writers at Moffatt chooses write about families.

433
00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:52.559
And there's a lot of stories about fathers in the season leading up to that.

434
00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:57.179
Avery, there's Alex in Night Terrors, and there's Craig, of course.

435
00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:00.659
And now we get a story about a mother.

436
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:08.519
And what's so often the case in sitcoms is the mother's the sensible one and the father's the fun one.

437
00:40:08.579 --> 00:40:15.420
And we do get that set up, as you were saying, at the beginning of this, Nathan, but it then settles.

438
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:23.880
And the thing that annoys me about that kind of setup is it's implied that the mother is only strong because the father is foolish.

439
00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:39.539
Whereas here, both parents are incredibly decent, upstanding and kind people, and their kindness and link to each other is what brings them together in the end, and I am choking up a bit.

440
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:52.679
Um, I think that what appeals to me about this story so much is just sort of how pure it is in, we're giving you a very happy story.

441
00:40:52.800 --> 00:41:02.519
And then at the end, it's like, no, we're still giving you a very happy story, you know, this isn't, we've done all this, but there's still heartbreaking, the world was like, no, for once.

442
00:41:02.579 --> 00:41:06.000
We're going to bring everything back together at the end.

443
00:41:06.059 --> 00:41:15.179
And then, of course, Madge returns the favour to the doctor by saying, well, go see your family, you idiot.

444
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:19.260
I have one reservation about it.

445
00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:27.119
And it is based on what you just said, Brendan, about the way it characterises men and women.

446
00:41:27.179 --> 00:41:36.360
And Pete, you already alluded to the lady driver thing. redeem itself?

447
00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:50.099
Yeah. she cries to get her own way and then she crashes a car, she crashes a giant thing, but then in the end she saves a day by flying a giant ping-pong ball through the already pre-rendered opening title sequence, which is very interesting.

448
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:52.800
And I proved that that's what we want, that's that's nice. a nice touch.

449
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:59.880
Yeah, I can't decide whether that is a self-redeeming thing because it does those 3 things and the 3rd one's the twist. don't know.

450
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:01.619
I mean, she pulls a gun on them.

451
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:03.000
I think that's pretty cool.

452
00:42:03.059 --> 00:42:06.300
Like, they think it's just the wool.

453
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:08.280
And she gets some fantastic lines.

454
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:12.360
I love the bit right at the end where she says to one of the kids, something like this was bound to happen.

455
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:18.840
That is one of the funniest slides of the lot.

456
00:42:18.900 --> 00:42:36.480
I'll try and park my my inner script, Karen, kicks in whenever I want to go back to this era. you know, like, um, as soon as the end credits, I think all fans have it to a certain extent, and some people make a career out of it, but like as soon as the end credits start rolling, you're like, oh, I want to speak to the script editor, that was not, I did not order a red herring.

457
00:42:36.539 --> 00:42:39.360
I demand to speak to the manager of this episode.

458
00:42:39.420 --> 00:42:42.000
And actually, you've got to just roll with it and love it for what it is.

459
00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:51.780
The thing I think you're going to talk about was the backstory that Reg followed Madge home until she sort of relented, which is a reprise of blink, isn't it?

460
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:53.039
Yeah, yeah.

461
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:57.719
The lady that gets sent back in time just gets stalked into submission.

462
00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:04.019
Yeah, because Moffatt is a sort of romantic slash sex comedy writer.

463
00:43:04.139 --> 00:43:10.079
He sort of leans into that trope and obviously the persistent man is part of that.

464
00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:27.900
But also I think the manchild or the man is an idiot and the woman as, you know, she's strong and she's able to look after the children and she can hold an entire forest inside her because of her great strength.

465
00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:29.820
In a way.

466
00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:40.139
Obviously, that's a tribute to motherhood, but in a way, also it's, and that's why you change the nappies while I'm watching television.

467
00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:44.400
You know, like it, it just strikes me as a little bit of a problem.

468
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:54.300
And with the, with the, you know, he followed me home everyday thing, you can so easily fix that if the doctor says, oh, bit creepy.

469
00:43:54.300 --> 00:43:55.679
And she responds, yes, I know.

470
00:43:55.739 --> 00:43:57.360
I had to walk past him 7 times.

471
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:01.380
It makes it clear that, no, no, no.

472
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:03.000
I made him do that.

473
00:44:03.059 --> 00:44:04.199
I wanted him to do that.

474
00:44:04.260 --> 00:44:10.139
You know, but at the same time, that is what men did in the in the 20s and 30s, you know.

475
00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:15.780
It just would have been nice if there was a comment there or even Lily saying, well, I'm not going to do that.

476
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:23.219
You know, just to kind of say she's going to be, by the time she's an adult, it's going to be the cusp of the 60s and, you know.

477
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:45.059
I mean, the reason that Bill is a lesbian, isn't it, is because Moffatt, when he was riding the pilot, wanted to have these sort of love interest that pursues Bill, and he's realised by that point that actually that's really quite creepy, and if we make her heather, then it won't have those sort of unpleasant associations.

478
00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:48.300
So Moffatt does learn from this stuff.

479
00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:56.519
But yeah, this is the 2nd time he's deployed that trope and looking at it in 2021, it does look like a bit of a problem.

480
00:44:56.579 --> 00:45:01.320
Particularly in the tiny montage that we glimpse, he's stalking it through woodland as well.

481
00:45:06.059 --> 00:45:08.280
He's a fendoline.

482
00:45:25.500 --> 00:45:30.900
Honestly, if you cut the words human newwominy from this episode, it becomes one of my favourites.

483
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:34.199
That's like, it just, that knocked me off my chair.

484
00:45:34.260 --> 00:45:39.599
There's science, Y and C, and humany Wuminy, isn't there that, yeah, it's...

485
00:45:39.659 --> 00:45:46.679
And we have had bumpy wumpy, I think, at some point in series 6 and I really, really dislike it.

486
00:45:46.739 --> 00:45:55.199
It's not quite as bad as squeaky bum time in the Hungry Earth or Cold Blood, one of those.

487
00:45:55.260 --> 00:45:58.139
But those things, I think, are a bit unfortunate.

488
00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:05.699
And I think Matt can get away with silly words and sort of posh nursery speak and all of that sort of thing, but I think that's too much.

489
00:46:05.940 --> 00:46:07.380
Hmm.

490
00:46:07.380 --> 00:46:13.079
Something I remembered was that humany womeny was the last line of the episode.

491
00:46:13.139 --> 00:46:16.920
Like, I remember the doctor realising he's crying and saying huminy wominy.

492
00:46:16.980 --> 00:46:25.440
And I'm so glad I had that memory wrong because I think I just think it's so much more effective that the doctor doesn't say anything.

493
00:46:25.500 --> 00:46:30.239
Like it's it's all just a physical acting choice.

494
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:39.239
And, you know, for me, in terms of sentimentality, that ending is up there with, and they lived happily from the husbands of River Song.

495
00:46:39.420 --> 00:46:44.579
I really, really think that final scene is pitched incredibly well.

496
00:46:44.699 --> 00:46:45.599
Yep.

497
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:49.019
I was super happy to see Amy and Rory at Christmas.

498
00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:51.659
I think we knew at that point they were going to be back.

499
00:46:51.840 --> 00:47:10.559
But having this story have an effect on the doctor, like the Christmas invasion, has a doctor who previously didn't do domestic stuff going home and spending Christmas with Jackie and Rose, which is one of the highlights of the show's history for me, frankly.

500
00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:12.420
So having them come back.

501
00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:14.400
And having Amy...

502
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:45.780
Like Amy is, she's doing a Peter Capaldi, she's going to squirt Christmas carollers with the... and just having them stare at one another and refuse to make the 1st move and that doesn't matter because they're so perfectly in sync that they just kind of go for it at exactly the same time and her laughter at him and all of that is just it's just terrifically well done.

503
00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:52.019
There's a prequel to this one as well, so-called prequel that I'd forgotten about that.

504
00:47:52.079 --> 00:48:02.099
I just found on the disc when I was watching this where it's set on the spaceship at the start just before we joined the events where he's got his hand on a button and he's saying as soon as I let go this.

505
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:09.719
The ship's going to start to blow up and he's phoning Amy in the TARDIS saying, I'll give you the coordinates. you can come and pick me up and he goes, oh no, actually, you're not there anymore, are you?

506
00:48:09.780 --> 00:48:10.920
And you haven't been there for a while.

507
00:48:10.980 --> 00:48:16.679
So that sort of bookends the, you know, the Amy stuff a little bit and highlights that he's actually missing her and thinking about it.

508
00:48:16.739 --> 00:48:19.019
But I don't think you really miss anything from that.

509
00:48:19.500 --> 00:48:21.539
So how does it hang?

510
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:23.760
The previous episode ends with him.

511
00:48:23.820 --> 00:48:25.139
I'm going to go dark.

512
00:48:25.199 --> 00:48:26.280
I'm going to lurk in the shadows.

513
00:48:26.340 --> 00:48:29.460
I got too big, which I was, I cheered.

514
00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:38.579
And then, then, he just sort of changes his mind and comes back and why was it important that he, to him, that they thought he was dead.

515
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:41.579
And then he just changes his mind and it's like, oh, okay.

516
00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:42.780
Actually, yeah, it's Christmas.

517
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:43.860
I'll just not bother doing that anymore.

518
00:48:44.099 --> 00:48:46.199
I don't think it's important.

519
00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:54.420
They thought they were dead, but they'd stopped travelling with him already in the God complex and had the, you know, he'd bought them the house and the car and everything.

520
00:48:54.480 --> 00:49:00.599
I thought, oh, you got the impression you just thought, well, their travels had naturally come to a close and then he was going to go off and do his new stuff.

521
00:49:00.900 --> 00:49:04.260
He doesn't know that Rivers told them he's not dead, does he?

522
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:06.420
Amy reveals that to him at that point.

523
00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:08.639
It's a very nice moment, but just let me think, well, why did he do it then?

524
00:49:08.699 --> 00:49:17.579
I think the reason is that he did originally die in episode one and then that information was sort of widely known.

525
00:49:17.639 --> 00:49:20.460
Like the test selector had that information.

526
00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:26.400
And the changes he makes in Wedding of River song are very minimal.

527
00:49:26.460 --> 00:49:38.219
So he does a change that's consistent with what everyone knows, and so it doesn't break the timeline, whereas River makes a big change that does break the timeline.

528
00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:45.480
And so he has to come out of it being known to be dead so that river still goes to prison, blah, blah, blah, you know, the whole thing.

529
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:49.500
And so I think that that's why he goes dark.

530
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:57.300
But I also think that the show generally has a problem oscillating between whether the doctor's famous or not.

531
00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:12.840
You might remember at the end of World War 3, the doctor gives Mickey a CD ROM that has a computer virus on it that's going to delete him from everyone's database so no one knows who he is on earth anymore.

532
00:50:12.900 --> 00:50:15.480
And now he, the doctor's going dark.

533
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:23.400
In the very next episode after this, he will wipe his records from the Daleks database and they won't know who he is.

534
00:50:23.460 --> 00:50:27.119
And I think it's a weird thing because the universe is big.

535
00:50:27.179 --> 00:50:27.840
Time is big.

536
00:50:27.900 --> 00:50:35.280
The doctor can always turn up and no one knows who he or she is and that doesn't seem weird or surprising to anyone in the audience.

537
00:50:35.340 --> 00:50:37.980
So, you know, why is it a problem?

538
00:50:38.039 --> 00:50:44.940
The idea that the doctor's famous works because he's been around for 50 years and blown up lots of people and stuff.

539
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:48.300
So he can be famous, but he doesn't have to be famous everywhere.

540
00:50:48.599 --> 00:51:06.599
Yeah, because there was like this sort of phase, lasted about 10 years, of the series where that fundamental awesomeness of the doctor and the effect that that awesomeness has on everyone the doctor meets and the doctor's celebrity, just, it's always an element of the show, but it seemed to get right to the front during the Russell T. Davis Moffatt eras.

541
00:51:06.659 --> 00:51:12.360
Um, and and now, now with, with the gyminal era, it's a different kind of mythos obsession.

542
00:51:12.420 --> 00:51:17.519
But they try to do this palate cleansing thing of let's clear the decks. nobody knowing who the doctor is.

543
00:51:17.579 --> 00:51:18.179
And those are the stories.

544
00:51:18.239 --> 00:51:24.900
I love it when the doctor has to prove that the doctor is someone worth trusting, but to the characters they meet and that sort of thing.

545
00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:28.800
And if it's just, if it's just, oh, the doctor, I'm just going to say my name and the monsters run away.

546
00:51:28.860 --> 00:51:34.679
That was fun the 1st time it was done in silence in the library. 1st time it was sort of done in this way.

547
00:51:34.739 --> 00:51:40.079
But when it becomes a really regular prop beat of almost every episode.

548
00:51:40.139 --> 00:51:44.820
I'm like, this isn't adventures in space and time of the type that I'm looking for.

549
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:47.460
Probably done the same about Sherlock Holmes, probably, when he becomes famous.

550
00:51:47.519 --> 00:51:49.079
I could complain about that too.

551
00:51:49.139 --> 00:51:52.320
Conan Doyle did all right despite despite my opinions.

552
00:51:52.380 --> 00:52:03.780
I think it's the show just kind of going meta on a particular level, you know, that as viewers, we've been watching the doctor for 50 years do this all the time.

553
00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:13.559
And the show has interrogated that both at the end of series 5 and the end of series 6 where the monsters gang up on him because he's so terrifying and destructive.

554
00:52:13.619 --> 00:52:17.280
And that's a true picture of the doctor that the audience had.

555
00:52:17.340 --> 00:52:20.219
And so for us, he's like that.

556
00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:29.940
And so that kind of leaks into the reality of the program, which is a pretty contentious term when you're talking about the moffeteer, aren't you?

557
00:52:30.119 --> 00:52:44.219
I think also with the whole Amy and Rory thing, in Let's Kill Hitler, he views Amy before she met him as the only person he hasn't screwed up.

558
00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:51.300
And he sort of acknowledges on some level that every time he comes back into Amy's life, things get worse for her.

559
00:52:51.300 --> 00:53:03.420
So when he leaves her, as you said, Mark, he buys them the house, he buys them the car, and he's like, I'm giving you every opportunity, and I want you safe, and that's why you can't travel with me anymore.

560
00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:10.860
And I think that's the reason he's staying away because he sees himself as their bad luck charm.

561
00:53:10.860 --> 00:53:12.179
And...

562
00:53:12.179 --> 00:53:23.159
I love that when he turns up, there is no recrimination beyond a spray in the face with a water pistol and they're like, come in for Christmas dinner.

563
00:53:23.219 --> 00:53:24.000
He's like, what are you talking about?

564
00:53:24.059 --> 00:53:24.719
You weren't expecting me.

565
00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:26.880
And they're like, we always put out a placing for you.

566
00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:28.800
Just in case.

567
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:31.739
And, you know, they're putting out milk and bickies for Santa.

568
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:32.940
You know what I mean?

569
00:53:33.239 --> 00:53:36.719
Um, and flashing forward a bit.

570
00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:41.820
I so wish this was the last appearance of Amy and Rory.

571
00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:43.920
It's so lovely and so perfect.

572
00:53:43.980 --> 00:54:04.079
And then you can start the following season with the doctor, having made peace with them and, you know, everything's good and everything's fine and kind of weird timiness, we're now in like, I think I think someone figured out that the power of 3 has to take place after day of the doctor because of all the time jobs because it's been 2 years.

573
00:54:04.139 --> 00:54:04.679
Yeah.

574
00:54:04.800 --> 00:54:05.460
Yeah.

575
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:11.219
And, you know, then there's like a, I think, something like a three-year time jump during Power of three.

576
00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:19.199
There's literally no reason to believe that Moffat isn't doing that just to annoy the people who edit TARDIS we care.

577
00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:20.039
Yeah, yeah.

578
00:54:20.099 --> 00:54:24.000
Well, it's for the next edition of the discontinuity guy.

579
00:54:24.059 --> 00:54:27.179
Paul Cornell's like, I'm not touching that with a barge pole.

580
00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:28.139
I get real work now.

581
00:54:29.340 --> 00:54:42.480
And I think having a water pistol moment immediately before a scene where the doctor is probably seen to be crying is a nice little touch to, oh, look, if you can't handle this, you can just say that it was the water pistol and he's thinking about crying.

582
00:54:42.539 --> 00:54:46.559
If Time Lord Tears are too upsetting for you, then I'm giving you an out here.

583
00:54:47.760 --> 00:55:01.320
I mean, he has cried before and he visibly cries, you know, in doctor's wife and so on, but the happy cry, which he thought was a human, a weird human thing, a very sort of sweet human thing.

584
00:55:01.380 --> 00:55:05.880
And so obviously it is because he's half human that he does that.

585
00:55:30.179 --> 00:55:33.539
Well, the listener, that's all we have time for this year.

586
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:38.280
We'll be back in 2022 to talk to you about Doctor Who Series 7.

587
00:55:38.340 --> 00:55:59.099
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook, at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project.

588
00:55:59.340 --> 00:56:01.980
Mark, where can people find you online?

589
00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:15.659
I am on Twitter as at Quark McMullis, and you can find me on the Trot One podcast, along with Pete, uh, Saiha, Conrad, uh, other people that you've heard on Flight Throntoti, and some other brilliant people.

590
00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:16.860
I know maximum power.

591
00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:19.320
And Pete, where can people find you?

592
00:56:19.380 --> 00:56:24.599
Yeah, hi, I'm underscore quite a mess on Twitter and a roving podcast.

593
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:32.340
For some reason, people keep letting me go on podcasts, so I'll turn up whatever I'm invited to because it's lovely to speak to intelligent, lovely people about fun TV programs.

594
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:37.739
Until next time, remember, you're not dead and a happy New Year.

595
00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:40.380
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

596
00:56:40.500 --> 00:56:41.699
Good night.

597
00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:42.659
Good night.

598
00:56:42.719 --> 00:56:43.380
Good night.

599
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:53.639
That was flight through entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, Pete Lambert, and Mark McManus.

600
00:56:53.699 --> 00:56:55.860
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

601
00:56:55.920 --> 00:57:03.539
This episode, Digby, the biggest dog in the world, was recorded on the 12th of December 2021 and released on Christmas Day.

602
00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:10.079
Thank you to all of you for your time, your attention, your support, and your friendship this year.

603
00:57:10.139 --> 00:57:16.139
Enjoy the holiday season, and we look forward to joining you again in 2022.

604
00:57:22.739 --> 00:57:24.119
Yeah.

605
00:57:24.179 --> 00:57:27.300
The looms malfunctioned on the table.

606
00:57:27.420 --> 00:57:33.599
Well, got, I mean, I can't wait for Big Finishers series that's teased in this, the war looms.

607
00:57:33.659 --> 00:57:36.420
The war-master.

608
00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:38.519
The newspaper headline, yeah.

609
00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:41.219
The war looms.

610
00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:43.679
Two neo genetic material.

611
00:57:46.139 --> 00:57:48.000
Crazy Fields.

612
00:57:48.059 --> 00:57:49.019
See your soul.

613
00:57:49.079 --> 00:57:51.059
Give us an arm.

614
00:57:54.059 --> 00:58:01.019
The only thing I've got is, did 12-year-old girls really say, oh, my God, a lot in 1941 because Lily does it.

615
00:58:01.139 --> 00:58:02.219
She's about 3 times.

616
00:58:02.340 --> 00:58:03.659
She's a profane.

617
00:58:05.820 --> 00:58:07.440
I like her.

618
00:58:07.500 --> 00:58:08.519
The doctor's quite rude to her.

619
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:17.820
Well, in in a cup part of the script, he actually calls her stupid. because she's poo-pooing his brilliant ideas.

620
00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:19.679
And reading a lot.

621
00:58:19.800 --> 00:58:23.820
But does he get does he get a comeback on it, that it's actually, she turns out to be right?

622
00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:25.679
Because she does with the stars.

623
00:58:25.739 --> 00:58:27.179
She's saying, yeah, look at the stars.

624
00:58:27.239 --> 00:58:28.559
Yeah, of course there's stars.

625
00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:29.579
Stupid girl.

626
00:58:29.820 --> 00:58:34.559
Yeah, but I mean, then it's like he's weak and she's strong.

627
00:58:34.619 --> 00:58:35.760
Is that the payoff?

628
00:58:35.880 --> 00:58:49.800
Yeah But that I, um, Stephen Moffat wrote, wrote this at the end of a 4 month stint where he didn't have a day off and there's loads of cut lines from the script where the, where Madge and the doctor are just awful to the children.

629
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:55.800
And it's like sort of one line in every 10 survives.

630
00:58:56.639 --> 00:59:03.719
Muppet hasn't said this, but I think it's very much, you know, some one of the scriptenders is going through and going, Jesus Christ.

631
00:59:03.719 --> 00:59:05.159
Is this a comedy?

632
00:59:06.780 --> 00:59:17.219
You know, I think that we've entered the tag season of our episode now because I detected an out earlier on and I think that this might be it.

633
00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:19.559
So, um, what do you think?

634
00:59:19.679 --> 00:59:20.760
Cool.

635
00:59:20.760 --> 00:59:24.179
Is anyone bursting to say anything that wasn't addressed?

636
00:59:25.380 --> 00:59:28.260
You persuaded me to like it a bit more than I did.

637
00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:31.139
Hey, that's my function.

638
00:59:32.579 --> 00:59:43.920
I think the only thing I read about a bit of sort of background on this was that the wooden king came from a dream that Stephen Moffatt had where he was a super...

639
00:59:43.980 --> 00:59:56.639
Yeah, he was a superstitious child who thought that if he if he accidentally slept facing the wall that something bad would happen, and he woke up one morning, thought he woke up facing the wall and he turned around, there's a wooden king in his room.

640
00:59:56.699 --> 01:00:02.639
So that sort of, uh, and it made me think that sort of magical thinking creeps into the episode a little bit, doesn't it?

641
01:00:02.699 --> 01:00:06.599
Because Madge says, if you read about the war, it's going to happen.

642
01:00:06.659 --> 01:00:24.360
It's going to bring it on and then the whole thing about making the wish with the wishbone and all that type of stuff, which, um, it's not as bad as when the doctor does it in the next Christmas specialties, uh, trying to make a deal with the universe, which is just Noel Edmunds crap and I don't think should be, uh, should be really something that the doctor's doing at the time.

643
01:00:24.420 --> 01:00:27.780
I think it was Oprah, you know, like...

644
01:00:27.780 --> 01:00:31.079
There's your episode title for next year's Christmas special already in the now.

645
01:00:31.139 --> 01:00:34.139
I can be the 1st person to prename another episode.

646
01:00:34.679 --> 01:00:38.820
We had cheated and done that a bunch of time, mostly for space reasons.

647
01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:39.659
Yeah.

648
01:00:39.659 --> 01:00:45.420
I love those, we didn't talk about how good those costumes are.

649
01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:46.980
I think they look really good.

650
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:47.579
Yeah.

651
01:00:47.579 --> 01:00:50.099
The wooden king and queen.

652
01:00:50.159 --> 01:00:52.500
Yeah, one of them spot the queen is Paul Casey.

653
01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:53.099
Yeah.

654
01:00:53.219 --> 01:01:03.900
And look, if it's a matter of, you know, you attract your nightmares, look, I can have a nightmare about Spencer Wilding. being at the foot of my bed.

655
01:01:03.960 --> 01:01:08.760
The wooden king. and praise him, the minor tour.

656
01:01:08.820 --> 01:01:11.699
Oh, wow, we love the monitor.

657
01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:13.980
He's fit, isn't he?

658
01:01:14.519 --> 01:01:17.519
I think those costumes are very excited about the moment.

659
01:01:17.579 --> 01:01:23.760
I think those costumes are at the doctor experience in Cardiff as well, and they look really impressive in real life as well. really striking.

660
01:01:24.300 --> 01:01:27.960
And what is Harry Hausen models, but full size?

661
01:01:28.019 --> 01:01:28.860
Yeah, yeah.

662
01:01:28.920 --> 01:01:35.159
And what is, I presume, CG for the facial movement is incredibly well integrated.

663
01:01:35.219 --> 01:01:37.619
Yeah, they're not linking, right?

664
01:01:37.679 --> 01:01:39.000
Yeah, it must be CG.

665
01:01:39.059 --> 01:01:40.260
Yeah.

666
01:01:41.760 --> 01:01:43.800
All right, what do you think?

667
01:01:43.860 --> 01:01:45.480
I think we've got a thing.

668
01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:47.579
Sounds like an episode.

669
01:01:47.639 --> 01:01:48.900
That was really fun.

670
01:01:49.199 --> 01:02:11.159
I was wondering whether I was a bit FTE down because it like it takes me like, you know, like I've spent literally all day, like sort of 6 hours listening to this all go on about wedding of river song. and um, We managed to get Todd up from a 7.5 to a 9 during the course of that.

671
01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:13.920
So, uh, that thing.

672
01:02:13.980 --> 01:02:14.579
Yeah, I know.

673
01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:21.420
I've put evidence in the tag where he says this was a 7.5 for me and then at the end of it, he said it was a nine.

674
01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:21.960
Wow.

675
01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:22.500
Yeah.

676
01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:23.219
Excellent.

677
01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:23.940
Yeah.

678
01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:25.800
This isn't for this episode.

679
01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:27.000
I'm not going to remumerate.

680
01:02:27.719 --> 01:02:31.380
I like it's all right. all right. very nice moments.

681
01:02:32.519 --> 01:02:36.780
Watching this episode and watching Matt Smith with the 2 children.

682
01:02:36.900 --> 01:02:41.760
I'm just kind of going, why have they not given Jody Whittaker any scenes with children?

683
01:02:41.820 --> 01:02:44.579
You know, everyone has had scenes with children.

684
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:47.219
Because of all the heymail I send them.

685
01:02:47.579 --> 01:02:50.280
Hey, children being a doctor.

686
01:02:50.340 --> 01:02:54.960
These are the least the 2 least annoying children in the entire mafia era.

687
01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:56.880
I reckon more and more annoying every time.

688
01:02:56.940 --> 01:03:02.940
Toby, I think, is really good in Curse of the Black Spot, I think. but he's older, like he's at 14 or something.

689
01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:04.380
I think he's pretty good.

690
01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:07.139
Yeah, the one saying literally, sorry.

691
01:03:07.199 --> 01:03:09.900
The other colour ends up, maybe.

692
01:03:09.960 --> 01:03:10.980
No.

693
01:03:10.980 --> 01:03:12.179
Sorry, Mark, yeah.

694
01:03:12.239 --> 01:03:12.659
You go.

695
01:03:12.719 --> 01:03:13.440
You go, Mark.

696
01:03:13.500 --> 01:03:16.980
The actor playing Lily here is 19 as well.

697
01:03:17.039 --> 01:03:20.760
I think that's why she's quite, she's quite self-assured and stuff, yeah.

698
01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:21.780
Yeah, yeah.

699
01:03:22.139 --> 01:03:28.739
But, but, but, Pete, but, Pete, orphan 55, Jody doesn't even get any scenes with the kid in that.

700
01:03:29.219 --> 01:03:31.980
You know, the kid...

701
01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:36.239
Yeah, but at least he's got stupid hair and actually saves the day rather than just simpering.

702
01:03:40.260 --> 01:03:41.820
So good.

703
01:03:42.420 --> 01:03:43.980
All right.

704
01:03:44.039 --> 01:03:45.360
I think we're done.

705
01:03:45.420 --> 01:03:47.039
I think that was very...

706
01:03:47.039 --> 01:03:48.119
So we can stop recording.

707
01:03:48.179 --> 01:03:49.920
But do you want to do an outro perhaps?

708
01:03:49.980 --> 01:03:51.900
Do you want to finish the episode?

709
01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:52.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

710
01:03:53.039 --> 01:03:55.920
This is nearly my 100th episode, right, that I've run.

711
01:03:56.340 --> 01:03:58.440
I still can't remember.

712
01:03:58.500 --> 01:04:00.300
Episode 230.

713
01:04:00.539 --> 01:04:02.219
So that's nearly 100.

714
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:03.239
It's like 98.

715
01:04:03.900 --> 01:04:04.559
I can't remember.

716
01:04:06.659 --> 01:04:09.719
Fortunately, always someone who knows what they're doing.

717
01:04:10.440 --> 01:04:16.199
Jesus Christ I'm sure I had a hilarious joke too that no one would have heard.

718
01:04:16.260 --> 01:04:17.760
All right, let's try it.

719
01:04:17.820 --> 01:04:18.480
Right.

720
01:04:19.500 --> 01:04:23.280
Well, the listener, that's all we have time for this year.