WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:40:54

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Hello, day listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast that's always been able to imagine

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being a forest.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Pete.

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And I'm Mark.

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Well, it's Christmas Day, which means it's time for turkey, eggnog

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and admitting to all your friends and relatives that you faked

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your death 2 years ago just to avoid them.

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And it's also time to strip mine another literary Christmas

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classic.

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It's the doctor, the widow, and the wardrobe.

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All right, I'm gonna ask people a question.

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Are people familiar with the lion, the witch and the wardrobe?

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Over here?

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Definitely of my age, I think.

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Yeah, it was a book that it was every school child raid.

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And that's pre-BBC 90s adaptation.

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So, yeah, what about you, Mark?

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Annoyingly, younger demographic than me.

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Was it something that was on your radar, pre-TV as well?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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It was definitely probably red, red at school.

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So it's not even just something that was big for our age group, but

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was like a set text or whatever.

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And then I was probably exactly the right age for the BBC

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adaptation, which I probably even saw Tom Baker in before I

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watched any Doctor Who.

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I was probably that kind of age.

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It was probably the 1st thing I ever saw him in.

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Yeah, so he plays paddle glum in the silver chair, I think.

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I vaguely remember that adaptation.

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Did you ever see that?

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I did.

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I did.

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I saw a little bit of it.

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I wasn't that much into it, and I think I either must never

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recognise Tom Baker or I didn't see the silver chair.

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The funny thing was, I remember at high school because I was a

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little swat, I was often in the English department book room

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fetching the books and there was every book in the series in there

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and I knew it as a book series.

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I think, though, I was most familiar with the young ones sketch

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where the white queen offers Vivian Turkish delight.

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Um, but the funny thing is, like, the books were in there in the

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English department bookroom, we never learned any of the books in

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any year.

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I was at high school.

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I don't remember any of my friends mentioning it. either.

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So I think those books had like been in there before us and were

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just not used for ages.

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So it was always his mythical thing.

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I think there were a huge thing to that wartime generation, the

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people who were evacuated, especially because that's sort of where

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the setting of it starts.

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And so, yeah, there's that sort of handed down from parents to

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children aspect to it here as well.

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All of whom, however, would know, checking from the publishing

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date in the front page, that it's not out of copyright yet.

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And I wonder at what point that dropped into the writer's mind

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while creating this particular Doctor Who episode that he couldn't

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quite do.

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How do I do a Charles Dickens on this one?

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these movies.

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Yeah, maybe we make it a bit less wardrobey and a bit less liony

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to avoid setting alarm bells ringing in that department.

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It sort of strikes me that it's not the sort of thing that Stephen

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Moffatt would have a lot of sympathy for, and he absolutely

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doesn't do anything beyond just a very, very kind of superficial

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use of some of its imagery, really.

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I mean, so the wartime evacuation to a big house in the country

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the Christmas setting, the sort of wintry setting of the planet.

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But otherwise, it's really nothing at all, like, the source

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material, unlike last year, where basically, he just did a version

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of a Christmas Carol crossed with a Disney movie.

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Here he's kind of left with less to do with the source material.

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Early on in FTE's run, and I don't know if people remember this

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because it was a long time ago.

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I mentioned that C.S. Lewis was on my enemies list.

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I think he was probably a terrible person.

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And I have a bit of a loathing for the line, the winch and the

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wardrobe.

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And I think part of the thing is that I think Aslan is a terrible

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bully.

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And C.S. Lewis sort of co-ops people's feelings about Jesus

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sacrifice and sort of tries to attach them to his sort of rather

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horrible cartoon line.

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And so I'm always sort of quite cross with him about that.

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And, you know, there's obviously a lot of sexism and racism in

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Narnia.

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It has been sort of well rehearsed, I think. women drivers.

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Well, Stephen Moffat.

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We'll get there.

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Well, Stephen Moffatt has said was, you know, he read it as a

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child as well.

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And as a child, any Christian imagery and algorithm just went

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straight over his head.

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Yeah.

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So rather than going for a direct adaptation, which, yes, may

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indeed have been to do with the fact it's still in copyright

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because it was only published in 1950.

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As, you know, as well as that, he was sort of writing it from his

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childhood memory.

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And I think that's why you get the sort of crib notes version of

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you have something vaguely wardrobe shaped.

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And it's like, the whole title is a lie, right?

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Yeah, so there is no wardrobe.

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There is no wardrobe.

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There is no widow.

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And the doctor is hardly referred to as the doctor throughout the

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whole story.

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He's the caretaker.

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Yeah.

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Yes, it is another nerd baiting title, I think.

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He does, he refers to the TARDIS's wardrobe, doesn't he?

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It doesn't cover it.

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I don't know.

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Crew barring it in a bit.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, definitely the Christian stuff sailed over my head when I

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was a kid watching and reading this as well and I'm sure it wasn't

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any part of the teaching about it either.

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But I think the evacuee side of it, I think I remember was what

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was the lesson, like that this is what happened, that kids were

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taken from big cities to houses in the country that could

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accommodate them and stuff because there's other, I think it's

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wrong.

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Tom's Midnight Garden or the Secret Garden.

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There's other books like that that you read as a kid, aren't there

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about evacuees and stuff?

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So it's quite a quite an evocative thing, I think.

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And the 2 girls in Curse of Fenrich, obviously.

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Yes.

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Evil in that hat.

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It's actually a refreshing change, I think, to have a Christmas

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special that's not sort of said in the present day.

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And so obviously, once again, we're getting Moffatt taking a

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different sort of tack.

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I mean, the next doctor was set in Victorian times.

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And here, though, we have a 2nd World War story and I think that

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it actually works really well.

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That mid-20th century thing is great.

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And I think it suits Claire Skinner as well.

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Yeah, and that's fascinating because she's such a big star at this

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point.

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The night before this went out, she has the outnumbered Christmas

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special, which is the biggest comedy show on TV of the period

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where she plays middle class mum with her 3 kids in the modern

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day.

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And so yeah, it was really Claire Skinner's Christmas on BBC One

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this year.

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And I thought, yeah, and this story, it felt like a real palate

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cleanser after the whole everything of the previous year of like

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how complex and how many different, how many things can be bunged

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into one Doctor Who story.

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Oh, if only we knew. previous year.

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But and this year, the female league doesn't get locked in a

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fridge while men do the ethics and has to come out and sing as a

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sad song once in a while.

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So I do like her having a more a much more front and centred role

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as the female lead of this story.

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Are we going to have a companion discussion because she gets her

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name in the credits.

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I think that's, but so does Kylie, is Kylie a companion.

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So does John Sim.

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Yeah.

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Cribben's count.

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We've got a new we have a new category in our collection now, don't

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we?

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light in Ghost Light. of a big, someone who's big enough to get

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their name in the opening credits, but too big to actually come

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back to do this day and day out unless they're as awesome as

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Catherine Tate.

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There we go.

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That's the name of that category of person I've just invented.

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Sure, the acronym will be marvellous.

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It is a cast made up of a lot of people known for comedy, isn't

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it?

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So class can, like, say, massively best known for outnumbered

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Alexander Armstrong at this point, best known for Armstrong and

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Miller.

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And as you say, where she's been cast as the mum, being best known

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for playing the much harassed mum in outnumbered.

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I'm sorry, another one of the famous sketches is the World War II

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pilots sketch.

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So I assumed that this was like a sort of a shorthand for casual

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viewers because, you know, the whole idea that more people watch

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talk to on Christmas Day that don't normally watch it.

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But I read in the complete history that Andy Pryor hadn't realised

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that that he just cast it. knowing yet.

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Armstrong just has that vibe.

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In fact, both of them have sort of good Doctor Who pedigrees.

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So Claire Skinner was married to Charles Palmer at one point, who

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directed Doctor Who and is the son of Jeffrey Palmer.

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Alexander Armstrong, of course, hangs out behind Sarah Jane's

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attic.

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Oh, Peter Tottenham style. not having to rehearse anything as Mr

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Smith.

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There's a moment in his final scene where he's up in the, he goes

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up in the attic and he just looks around and it's almost like, yeah

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maybe I could be at home in an attic, like, in a big old house one

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day.

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Just sort of verbally.

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Because, of course, I think also, between series 5 and six, you

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had Matt Smith on Sarah Jane Adventures as well. with Liz and

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Katie.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. written by Russell T. Davis for the only time, I

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think.

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And Alexandra, I'm sure it's technically been in Doctor Who

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because he's in the stallen earth journeys end of crossover, isn't

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he, as well?

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Oh, yes, of course, yes.

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And then we have 3 other people who are sort of well known for

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comedy, former Doctor Who, unbound actor Arabella Weir, is here

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Bill Bailey, who is a very vocal Doctor Who fan, I think, appears

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here for the 1st time, and we also have Paul Bazley, who I didn't

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know, but he has, you know, like a massive IMDb page, and has

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never not worked.

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So he must have been a fairly familiar phase.

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Bill Bailey is one of those brilliant people for Doctor Who fandom

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exports, like to the normal people.

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He tells Dr. New Joke in stadiums with 20,000 people in them and

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everyone laughs.

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He's got that knack.

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It's an amazing thing to house.

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And it's a really small role.

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I know people, that's the sort of role where people can say, oh

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it's a, you know, it's a month that big.

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I think he's become even bigger since then. why wasn't he given a

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massive role?

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But if he's available and you've got a small role, you would just

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jump, wouldn't you?

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and it's Christmas.

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And yeah, Arabella Weir is brilliant in this and it does sort of

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heal some of the wounds of that horrifically frightening

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conceptually.

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I mean, horrifically frightening big finish where she plays the

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1st female doctor, who has turned into a woman because the doctor

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committed suicide and that's the time lord punishment for it, and

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she's an alcoholic who jokes about boobs all the time because

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she's a woman.

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And I didn't get to the end actually.

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Maybe, maybe, maybe it twists in God.

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Anyway, lovely to see her anyway. 2 doors down.

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Which is one of the biggest sitcoms.

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Well, it's not because it should be.

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It's a niche sitcom. you ever see it, track it down.

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She's the female lead in that, along with stink from Flux, is one

250
00:12:52.019 --> 00:12:53.100
of the stars of that too.

251
00:12:54.179 --> 00:12:58.259
The 2 people who aren't Bill Bailey, so Arabella Weir and Paul

252
00:12:58.259 --> 00:13:04.139
Bailey are playing Billis and Wenger, who were named for departing

253
00:13:04.139 --> 00:13:06.059
executive producers Beth Willis.

254
00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:07.320
Oh my god.

255
00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:08.700
Piers Wenger.

256
00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:14.519
Which makes me think that Droxel is Stephen Moffat constantly

257
00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:17.039
turning around to his other executive producers like, will you

258
00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:17.580
focus, please?

259
00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:24.720
And if that's the case, Beth Willis was probably constantly

260
00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:29.519
tapping Stephen on the shoulder and saying, um, so are we going to

261
00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:32.039
address the fact that Amy is going through massive trauma?

262
00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:34.980
Or do you think women just bounce back from this, Stephen?

263
00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:38.220
All that stuff about a visual.

264
00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:42.779
You know, it's a bad visual. you know, pointing a gun at Claire

265
00:13:42.779 --> 00:13:44.279
Skinner on Christmas Day.

266
00:13:44.460 --> 00:13:47.639
I actually think that that scene is surprisingly funny.

267
00:13:47.700 --> 00:13:53.700
Moffatt can write clever sitcom dialogue, but this episode has

268
00:13:53.700 --> 00:13:57.960
kind of the feel of him being a bit tapped out, to be honest, but

269
00:13:57.960 --> 00:13:59.340
I do think that's funny.

270
00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:03.299
I think it's surprising how little comedy business Arabella Weir

271
00:14:03.299 --> 00:14:08.820
gets to do, but in a way, just thematically with how this episode

272
00:14:08.820 --> 00:14:10.620
works and will definitely come to that.

273
00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:15.000
She is the one who's not an idiot because she's a woman.

274
00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:18.419
And she's really quite sympathetic.

275
00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:23.519
I think she plays it really well, like the way that she is careful

276
00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:25.980
with Claire Skinner's feelings.

277
00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:28.379
Do you know what I've forgotten her character's name?

278
00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:30.179
Is she Madge?

279
00:14:30.179 --> 00:14:30.840
Marjorie?

280
00:14:30.899 --> 00:14:32.039
Madge Madge.

281
00:14:32.100 --> 00:14:32.879
You got imagine Reg.

282
00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:34.559
Imagine Reg, of course you do.

283
00:14:34.620 --> 00:14:37.919
I give you into Marge, as in Simpsons, and it's not.

284
00:14:38.340 --> 00:14:41.340
It's much like neighbours. they great?

285
00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:42.299
Yes.

286
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.240
And they're all great 1940s names.

287
00:14:45.299 --> 00:14:46.740
Or 30s.

288
00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:49.559
Because there's a bit of a bit of a haze over when this is set

289
00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:49.980
isn't it?

290
00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:52.860
Because it starts before the war, and then we get a caption saying

291
00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:55.860
3 years later, but then the telegram with his death on only says

292
00:14:55.860 --> 00:15:00.360
like 1941 or something, you know, I'm not quite sure which German

293
00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:02.279
city is on his way back from obliterating.

294
00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:06.299
But we have to pin it down on some, in a plane that apparently

295
00:15:06.299 --> 00:15:08.340
hadn't been invented then, the Lancaster bomber didn't come along

296
00:15:08.340 --> 00:15:08.879
to the lake.

297
00:15:08.940 --> 00:15:10.139
But that's.

298
00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:11.279
That's getting too picky.

299
00:15:11.340 --> 00:15:13.200
For God's sake, have a sharing.

300
00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:28.379
We've leapt into the main story, of course.

301
00:15:28.379 --> 00:15:30.960
There's that bit, I'm going to get this out of my system, because

302
00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:33.480
I'm going to find this very difficult to say, but the beginning

303
00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:37.679
bit, with getting a whole, here's your expectation of a Russell T

304
00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:38.940
Davis Christmas special.

305
00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:40.679
We're on a spaceship, everything's blowing up.

306
00:15:40.740 --> 00:15:45.240
And just blowing it all up in the 1st 30 odd seconds is clever.

307
00:15:45.299 --> 00:15:46.440
There we go.

308
00:15:46.500 --> 00:15:46.980
I said it.

309
00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:48.840
I've said Moffett is clever.

310
00:15:48.899 --> 00:15:50.759
I've done it for a long time.

311
00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:52.679
And I, yeah, I've got it out my system.

312
00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:55.799
Because that is a really fun way of starting it off and play with

313
00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:56.460
their expectations.

314
00:15:56.580 --> 00:16:00.120
The doctor plummeting through space, his hair bellowing in the

315
00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:03.120
wind as he manages to put on a spacesuit and which has a

316
00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:04.440
reversible helmet somehow.

317
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:06.659
We'll just have to sort of roll with that because it makes it

318
00:16:06.659 --> 00:16:07.740
funny when he lands.

319
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.940
Yeah, I think it also is so that Madge obviously doesn't recognise

320
00:16:11.940 --> 00:16:13.860
him when he turns up 3 years later.

321
00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:15.960
So she's never seen his face.

322
00:16:16.019 --> 00:16:20.100
And there are sort of some jokes to be had, I think.

323
00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:25.200
Like that 1st scene is actually really rather charming and good at

324
00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:30.419
establishing what's going on here and certainly establishing her

325
00:16:30.419 --> 00:16:30.899
character.

326
00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:33.419
Yeah, I miss Roger Moore too with that bit.

327
00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:33.779
Yeah.

328
00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:35.940
Going through the sky.

329
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:37.559
It's how didn't bellow.

330
00:16:37.620 --> 00:16:39.179
It was much more secure.

331
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:41.159
Get real gone.

332
00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:45.720
That's what occurred to me that it seemed to be homaging a lot of

333
00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:50.220
films that we used to be on at Christmas when I was younger, saw

334
00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:54.899
the Star Wars opening, the sort of the moonraker, like you say, the

335
00:16:54.899 --> 00:16:57.899
Roger Moore chasing the parachute.

336
00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:01.799
And then when he crashes away, it's almost like Superman, isn't

337
00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:01.919
it?

338
00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:03.899
sort of like crashing into a field in sort of countryside

339
00:17:03.899 --> 00:17:04.319
location.

340
00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:08.700
So these were, you know, before in the UK we had sort of sky moves

341
00:17:08.700 --> 00:17:10.559
and things like that, the big movies they were put on over

342
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:13.200
Christmas, so it's quite evocative in that way as well, I think.

343
00:17:13.259 --> 00:17:16.200
Oh, I think Russell's mind that before, hasn't he?

344
00:17:16.259 --> 00:17:19.500
I mean, Voyage of the Damned is a sort of Poseidon adventure.

345
00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:20.940
Homage, I think.

346
00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:25.140
Yeah, and it does kind of, but it makes me less worried about why

347
00:17:25.140 --> 00:17:27.960
we don't get Christmas specials anymore because they really had

348
00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:31.980
done them all over the course of, there's more to come yet as we

349
00:17:31.980 --> 00:17:32.640
go through this era.

350
00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:34.500
The Muffet era.

351
00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:37.740
But they couldn't just keep doing that year in year out or doing

352
00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:40.259
the opposite of it, which you can also do, but there comes a point

353
00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:42.660
where it's like, how much more Christmas you can Doctor Who be.

354
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:44.519
In fact, the only thing they haven't done, which I really want, is

355
00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:47.099
Doctor Who does Gremlins, because that's my thing.

356
00:17:47.099 --> 00:17:49.140
That's an open door.

357
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:50.640
Russell D. Davis if you're listening.

358
00:17:50.700 --> 00:17:55.200
Well, Wizard versus Aliens did Gremlins in very early episode.

359
00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:57.420
And it's particularly good, I think.

360
00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:00.539
You could do a Christmas special with a bunch of patings.

361
00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:04.859
Oh, eating London for things that ate London.

362
00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:09.000
Russell, call us.

363
00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:12.720
The tings of comfort and joy.

364
00:18:14.220 --> 00:18:19.019
We 3 patings of...

365
00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:29.819
Meeting Madge, her 1st scene with her son, little miniadric.

366
00:18:30.180 --> 00:18:34.259
It's fantastically concise and great.

367
00:18:34.259 --> 00:18:36.180
And the way she burbles all the stuff about, and there was a

368
00:18:36.180 --> 00:18:37.500
spaceman or possibly an angel.

369
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:38.039
That's it.

370
00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:38.579
You know this person.

371
00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.279
You know this woman. and you like her.

372
00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:44.880
I think everyone would like, and she's just immediately a loveable

373
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.960
and real person, which is a very hard thing to land, and that's

374
00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.000
good writing and really good acting to do that.

375
00:18:51.059 --> 00:18:54.539
Yeah, the little kid, he's doing exactly what he's been asked to

376
00:18:54.539 --> 00:18:54.779
do.

377
00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:57.900
I mean, and it's quite funny that what's he doing in the garden

378
00:18:57.900 --> 00:19:02.220
agriculture, like, it immediately made me think of 4 to Doomsday

379
00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:04.319
and Adric saying, pass the sodium chloride.

380
00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:07.559
I'm a child genius and that's how we speak.

381
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:12.720
I actually think that that it's super adorable because she gives

382
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:16.619
this sort of big flustered explanation that Cyril is supposed to

383
00:19:16.619 --> 00:19:21.839
give Reg when he arrives and Cyril just says she's out.

384
00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:23.819
And I think that's terribly cute.

385
00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:28.200
And I also think characterising Lily as a bit of an idiot because

386
00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:32.519
she thinks that all of Cyril's big words are just made up.

387
00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:35.039
She doesn't think they're real words at all.

388
00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:38.039
And she's not going to be fooled by him into thinking they are.

389
00:19:38.099 --> 00:19:39.779
You're just saying things.

390
00:19:41.819 --> 00:19:45.779
Something I love so much about those scenes is, you know, when

391
00:19:45.779 --> 00:19:49.980
we've gone back to roughly this period in history in modern Doctor

392
00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:53.640
Who, the empty child, the idiot's lantern, the colours are all

393
00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:56.880
quite muted because we always think of the past in muted colour

394
00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:00.599
because it was either in black and white or CPR or very early

395
00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:04.920
colour systems, but I love how vibrant and vivid the colours are

396
00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:08.099
and they don't even go for the tempting option of they're vibrant

397
00:20:08.099 --> 00:20:12.119
and vivid in 1938, but then in 194 when everything's terrible

398
00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:13.920
everything's kind of dark and gloomy.

399
00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:16.680
It's like, no, the house they go to is still incredibly colourful

400
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:19.740
possibly because the doctors come in and fixed all these faults.

401
00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:21.660
I love that thing.

402
00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:22.380
It works normally.

403
00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:24.000
Oh, well, that's a fault. fix that.

404
00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:27.240
So let's talk about that.

405
00:20:27.299 --> 00:20:31.380
So we 1st meet the doctor again out of the suit when he sort of

406
00:20:31.380 --> 00:20:34.740
turns up at Uncle Thing's house.

407
00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:36.299
Big V.

408
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:39.240
Uncle Digby from their Grey Uncle.

409
00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:42.000
They snuck that in from line, the witch and the wardrobe, past the

410
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:42.720
copyright people.

411
00:20:44.579 --> 00:20:47.880
And who's in a sanatorium in...

412
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:50.339
No, I think he's in aged care facility or something like that.

413
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:51.059
That's the idea.

414
00:20:51.539 --> 00:20:53.400
In Battersea.

415
00:20:53.460 --> 00:20:55.200
He's in the dog's home.

416
00:20:55.259 --> 00:20:57.779
He's Digby the biggest dog in the world.

417
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:09.240
And so this part of Matt's performance is something that I'm not

418
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:11.400
actually totally on board with.

419
00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:14.220
And I'm a massive fan of man.

420
00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:19.740
He is, as I've said many times, my favourite doctor, but I start

421
00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:25.259
to suspect that rather than giving him interesting things to do

422
00:21:25.259 --> 00:21:29.819
that he spins and does in a really sort of remarkably interesting

423
00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:37.259
way, here, we're just relying on him being a bit zany, and I think

424
00:21:37.259 --> 00:21:40.079
it's probably a little bit too much.

425
00:21:40.140 --> 00:21:45.720
Maybe it's Christmas and we can get away with it, but I'm not a

426
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:47.759
massive fan of him in these scenes.

427
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:51.539
The bit with the dancing chairs has gone down in Lambert family

428
00:21:51.539 --> 00:21:55.140
law, as I was watching with my assembled nephews, nieces and

429
00:21:55.140 --> 00:21:57.960
whatnot, and the chairs all started dancing around, and Murray

430
00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:00.359
Gold is throwing an orchestra at you, telling you how funny it

431
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:00.599
is.

432
00:22:00.660 --> 00:22:04.380
And I just, and I just went, oh, Jesus, effing.

433
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:07.079
At which point the doctor goes, I know.

434
00:22:08.700 --> 00:22:12.420
No, I'm doing that. and then he keeps doing that again and again

435
00:22:12.420 --> 00:22:17.160
and it just, yeah, it tips him into overly zainly smug zone, which

436
00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:18.599
doesn't land right with me.

437
00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:22.380
Whereas earlier, like the bit with picking the lock in the police

438
00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:24.359
box that they thought was the TARDIS, there's a bit of funny

439
00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:25.380
business there with Claire Turner.

440
00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:27.900
And the music stops, it's just a funny moment.

441
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:31.079
And so that was laugh out loud, funny for me, but later, when I've

442
00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:33.299
got an orchestra yelling at me that I ought to be laughing or

443
00:22:33.299 --> 00:22:35.819
having any other emotional response, it actually deadens the

444
00:22:35.819 --> 00:22:37.559
response that I have to the drama.

445
00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:39.000
But I know that's just a matter of tone.

446
00:22:39.059 --> 00:22:40.259
People would draw that line in different places.

447
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:45.599
I do want to shout out for the use of like what is clearly stop

448
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:47.099
motion.

449
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:52.319
Like, it's, uh, it looks incredibly cheesy, and I'm absolutely on

450
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.980
board with that, given that, you know, given that it's Christmas

451
00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:59.339
it really looks aggressively silly, and there's no way that that's

452
00:22:59.339 --> 00:23:00.660
not what they're going for.

453
00:23:01.859 --> 00:23:05.819
I think there's also some kind of narrative confusion at this

454
00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:06.359
point.

455
00:23:06.539 --> 00:23:13.140
Because, so the doctor says to Madge, at the end of that 1st

456
00:23:13.140 --> 00:23:19.319
meeting, if you ever need me, just make a wish, and the kids make

457
00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:26.160
a wish, don't they, just before they go to Uncle Digby's, I think

458
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:31.259
at the end of an early scene, when we already know that the father

459
00:23:31.259 --> 00:23:35.339
is dead, and she's not telling them, right?

460
00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:43.380
And so it's not clear that the doctor knows what's going on with

461
00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:44.700
the family.

462
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:45.059
Is it?

463
00:23:45.539 --> 00:23:48.480
No, I don't think he knows.

464
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:50.880
I think as they pull the wishbone apart.

465
00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:56.519
Madge closes her eyes and makes a wish sort of silently then, and

466
00:23:56.519 --> 00:24:01.259
we know that the doctor is passing by between the earth and the

467
00:24:01.259 --> 00:24:03.779
moon because it's, you know, through the telescope sort of thing.

468
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:05.039
So I think that's what he picks up on.

469
00:24:05.099 --> 00:24:09.000
But I think, and I agree about his performance being very broad

470
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:12.660
and zany in this episode, in the way that Christmas episodes have

471
00:24:12.660 --> 00:24:14.940
to choose is that bit broader for, you know, people are only

472
00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:16.440
tuning on Christmas Day.

473
00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:20.400
But I do think the scene where Madge tells him that Reg just

474
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:20.700
died.

475
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:24.480
He plays that brilliantly and I really, really like that scene and

476
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:28.319
I read it, that that is him learning what the situation is.

477
00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:32.759
I think everything up to that point, he's just thought, right, I

478
00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:35.339
just want to give these people a great Christmas because I owe

479
00:24:35.339 --> 00:24:38.160
them for saving him 3 years prior.

480
00:24:38.220 --> 00:24:42.539
I wonder whether it would have worked better, though, if he knew

481
00:24:42.539 --> 00:24:50.339
or we knew that he knew and he's trying to distract them from it.

482
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:53.400
And certainly, I think that scene that you mentioned, Mark, is

483
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:54.779
absolutely superb.

484
00:24:54.839 --> 00:25:02.039
And the speech that he gives, where he says, where he tells Madge

485
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:05.700
why she's shouting at the children, and she's shouting at them

486
00:25:05.700 --> 00:25:10.680
because she knows and they don't, and she can't bear to watch them

487
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:13.500
being happy when they're going to be sad later.

488
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:17.099
And so what's the point of them being happy now and the doctor

489
00:25:17.099 --> 00:25:19.920
says it's because they're going to be sad later.

490
00:25:19.980 --> 00:25:23.220
And it's one of those things, you know, like, I don't know.

491
00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:28.920
Stephen Moffat is able to write dialogue for the doctor, a man who

492
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:32.279
can't tell whether a woman is pregnant or not just by looking at

493
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:37.079
her, that is incredibly wise and insightful.

494
00:25:37.140 --> 00:25:40.380
And I think that that's actually really quite a beautiful speech.

495
00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:43.799
Yeah, that lands, that really lands perfectly that bit.

496
00:25:43.859 --> 00:25:44.759
I didn't really get you.

497
00:25:44.819 --> 00:25:47.700
Because Doctor Who, for me and for a lot of people, gets you

498
00:25:47.700 --> 00:25:49.140
through some very difficult times as well.

499
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.559
It is that it's pure escapism that, you know, as a kid and

500
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:52.920
everything.

501
00:25:52.980 --> 00:25:57.240
So I think that ties in beautifully with that with these kids, you

502
00:25:57.240 --> 00:26:00.059
know, they're about to go through something horrific and he can be

503
00:26:00.059 --> 00:26:01.440
there to distract them like that.

504
00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:06.599
Yeah, I mean, after I watched the episode this morning, I sent a

505
00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:10.019
message to the FTE group chat saying, guess how many times I cried

506
00:26:10.019 --> 00:26:12.000
during the doctor, the widow, and the wardrobe.

507
00:26:12.059 --> 00:26:13.259
The answer will not surprise you.

508
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:18.119
Um, but that's the 1st scene I cry in, and, you know, having seen

509
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:22.140
Doctor Who as many times as I have, most of it multiple times

510
00:26:22.140 --> 00:26:26.819
that's the scene where I am full-blown, eyes scrunched up, can't

511
00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:33.779
see the television, crying, and that speech by Matt about not

512
00:26:33.779 --> 00:26:36.119
being able to be happy because you know how sad they're going to

513
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:37.440
be or how sad you're going to be.

514
00:26:37.500 --> 00:26:39.660
I thought, 0 my god, that's depression for a lot of people.

515
00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:41.519
That's how depression hits for a lot of people.

516
00:26:41.579 --> 00:26:44.819
If they already have it and they experience a happy emotion.

517
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:47.579
It'll suddenly be forestalled by, well, what's the point?

518
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:49.619
I'm not going to feel like this in a couple of hours.

519
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:51.359
And it's like, well that's the point.

520
00:26:51.420 --> 00:26:53.579
You know, you can remember that.

521
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:57.539
In terms of what he's doing for the family, watching this off the

522
00:26:57.539 --> 00:26:58.740
back of series 6.

523
00:26:59.099 --> 00:27:05.039
Even though Amy Rory and River all come out at the end of it and

524
00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:09.240
they're all alive, the doctor still has let a family down, that

525
00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:13.619
he's really close to, and I kind of see this as his atonement, and

526
00:27:13.619 --> 00:27:16.619
that's bookended at the end when he says to Madge that he can't go

527
00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:20.220
see them, and she's like, well, I don't care about your excuses.

528
00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:22.559
You're going, young man.

529
00:27:22.859 --> 00:27:26.460
I agree with you, Mark, that I think he knows something is wrong

530
00:27:26.460 --> 00:27:27.539
but he doesn't know what.

531
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:31.440
So he's just going to turn up and give them the best Christmas

532
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:32.039
possible.

533
00:27:32.099 --> 00:27:35.339
But of course, being the Matt Smith doctor who doesn't quite

534
00:27:35.339 --> 00:27:37.079
understand how humans work.

535
00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:41.220
He just throws everything at it humanly possible, just everything

536
00:27:41.220 --> 00:27:42.779
at the problem.

537
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:45.779
But then he finds out the exact nature of the problem.

538
00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:48.420
And he pulls back on the smugness after that.

539
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:52.799
And sort of when Lily comes up to see him, he doesn't do sort of

540
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:55.920
grandiose, grandstanding or whatever, he's just, oh, you know

541
00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:58.319
that's that, how can you fix a wardrobe?

542
00:27:58.380 --> 00:27:59.460
have you seen how I dress?

543
00:28:01.259 --> 00:28:04.079
I think too, perhaps then.

544
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:10.680
There is something about Matt Smith's doctor that is kind of

545
00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:16.319
Stephen Moffat's picture of what men are like, right?

546
00:28:16.380 --> 00:28:18.000
So he's a man child.

547
00:28:18.059 --> 00:28:24.480
He likes being bossed around by strong women, as perhaps does

548
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:25.559
Stephen Moffat.

549
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:28.019
And here he doesn't know when to stop.

550
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:34.200
And he's not particularly good at judging or helping other people

551
00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:35.279
with their emotions.

552
00:28:35.339 --> 00:28:39.000
And so he just goes gets out of hand here.

553
00:28:39.059 --> 00:28:45.660
And that has to be being contrasted with Claire Skinner as the

554
00:28:45.660 --> 00:28:50.519
mother because all of this stuff will eventually be about

555
00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:56.819
motherhood and how important the role of the mother is.

556
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:02.220
And so the father, who, you know, Matt Smith standing in for in

557
00:29:02.220 --> 00:29:06.480
this sort of situation, is an idiot who does kind of big

558
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:10.740
grandstandy gestures and stuff, but doesn't really understand the

559
00:29:10.740 --> 00:29:14.519
emotional complexity of what's going on and isn't properly able to

560
00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:15.240
look after them.

561
00:29:15.539 --> 00:29:18.779
The 11th doctor is the sort of the poshist.

562
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:22.140
Well, they're all, obviously, they're all old doctors, they're all

563
00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:23.339
new doctors.

564
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:26.339
He's definitely the posh. he's got that air of being the public

565
00:29:26.339 --> 00:29:30.420
schoolboy who didn't get expelled, whereas I think the 3rd the 3rd

566
00:29:30.420 --> 00:29:32.880
doctor being in a in a posh public school and began getting

567
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:36.180
expelled out as pert we was, seems more more credible.

568
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:40.380
But I do find it, watching Matt Smith's doctor now, uh, after

569
00:29:40.380 --> 00:29:43.440
having seen him as a young Prince Philip in the crown, is where

570
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:45.900
where he has to, always tones down the poshunist a little bit to

571
00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:46.740
be Prince Philip.

572
00:29:48.059 --> 00:29:51.599
I just I just see him giving the amazing lines like when he sees

573
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:54.900
meets Princess Margaret's fiancee and said, I thought he was a

574
00:29:54.900 --> 00:29:55.380
crap.

575
00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:59.339
I can't get that out of my head now when I see the 11th knock.

576
00:30:00.900 --> 00:30:05.039
But yes, the doctor's recklessness that sets in motion, the

577
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:06.420
situation, isn't it?

578
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.240
Which is already done before he knows what the situation is with

579
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:09.720
the family.

580
00:30:09.779 --> 00:30:12.960
And I suppose you don't know whether he's still going to go ahead

581
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:16.140
with it because he's the wires and the cables.

582
00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:19.259
He's tinkering with, sort of alert him to the fact that the little

583
00:30:19.259 --> 00:30:19.980
boy's gone through.

584
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:22.799
But you don't know whether he's planning something different at

585
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:26.339
that point or still going to go ahead with taking them to the

586
00:30:26.339 --> 00:30:26.700
planet.

587
00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:29.400
Which isn't called Narnia.

588
00:30:29.460 --> 00:30:30.119
What's that called?

589
00:30:30.180 --> 00:30:32.400
Well, it's not named, is it?

590
00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:33.839
It's nanny a business.

591
00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:37.319
That's why they're in the lamp.

592
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:38.519
Oh, there is a lamp post, isn't it?

593
00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:41.339
I love the little lampost glimpse that we get, right at the end

594
00:30:41.339 --> 00:30:44.039
where the doctor comes looks out of the tower. and he looks up to

595
00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:47.400
the sky and we see there is an outdoor lamp outside that tower

596
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:50.339
that's in the exact style of the Narnia lamp post, which is a very

597
00:30:50.339 --> 00:30:51.599
nice little touch there.

598
00:30:51.660 --> 00:30:54.480
Aren't we on an Andrazani?

599
00:30:55.559 --> 00:31:01.380
Well, Bill Bailey Etau are from Andrasani Major.

600
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:06.240
But we don't, we don't know where this, where this planet's from.

601
00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:08.759
It's probably the 4th moon of Andrasani major or something.

602
00:31:08.819 --> 00:31:10.559
It's the planet from Galaxy 4.

603
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:11.519
Okay.

604
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:13.380
Named planet.

605
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:18.720
Yeah, just 200 years earlier. 200 years of planting forests and

606
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:19.500
they're melting them.

607
00:31:21.180 --> 00:31:24.720
With acid rain sprayed from space.

608
00:31:24.779 --> 00:31:27.480
Now, as someone whose favourite story often gets criticised for

609
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:30.480
being unsubtle in its environmental message, I think this one's

610
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.579
pretty unsubtle as well as Orphan 55.

611
00:31:33.180 --> 00:31:37.680
I actually have giant tanks of acid spraying onto your trees

612
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:39.000
really does make that point.

613
00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:40.799
But I'm on board for that.

614
00:31:40.859 --> 00:31:44.940
And of course, we get that lovely bit, the lovely, what's the word

615
00:31:44.940 --> 00:31:48.180
resonance when the stars are coming out of the trees because death

616
00:31:48.180 --> 00:31:51.900
is raining from the skies, so the stars are all evacuating and it

617
00:31:51.900 --> 00:31:54.960
ties up nicely with the kids being evacuees themselves at the

618
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:57.660
beginning. a nice, a nice wrap up of beginning to end.

619
00:31:58.200 --> 00:32:04.680
Yeah, yeah. um I remember at the time, my visceral reaction to

620
00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:11.460
this was that there's no moustache twirling villain, you know

621
00:32:11.460 --> 00:32:16.079
there's certainly, I'd say the Andrazani tree loppers are

622
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:21.059
antagonists, but they're not villains and they're kind of bumbling

623
00:32:21.059 --> 00:32:23.220
and incompetent at what have you.

624
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:27.180
And the Wooden King and Wooden Queen aren't villains.

625
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:29.339
And, you know, we find that out.

626
00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:34.319
And yeah, you can argue the corporation doing the acid rain, our

627
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:36.720
villains, but they're not involved in the story.

628
00:32:36.779 --> 00:32:38.640
Who the villain is is not important.

629
00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:44.460
It's all about saving the tree spirits and saving the Arwells.

630
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:47.339
And I think that's really lovely.

631
00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:51.180
I've said before that I'm not a big fan of a Christmas carol just

632
00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:54.779
because of the sort of time manipulation and whatnot.

633
00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:57.299
But I acknowledge it's a very clever piece of writing and very

634
00:32:57.299 --> 00:32:57.900
well acted.

635
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:04.740
This, I feel like because the doctor is more open and more honest

636
00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:12.839
about what is happening than Madge's actions and heroism. resonate

637
00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:13.319
a lot more.

638
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:16.619
And it feels like a far more triumphant ending than a Christmas

639
00:33:16.619 --> 00:33:19.200
carol does, despite the fact that involves...

640
00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:21.480
Well, I was about to say it involves fewer people, but it also

641
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:26.039
involves a planet full of like little Magara. floating off and

642
00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:26.640
being rescued.

643
00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:31.200
I love at the end, the doctor says, well, they've migrated to a

644
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:33.480
higher plane of, I don't know, they just float off into space or

645
00:33:33.480 --> 00:33:34.319
something. doesn't matter.

646
00:33:34.380 --> 00:33:36.599
It's pretty much what happened to them.

647
00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:40.319
Although Madge does get the line and a little setting my teeth on

648
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:42.119
edge moment, which happened a few times in this era.

649
00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:45.180
Madge turns to someone else as the script is happening to her and

650
00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:47.819
says, oh, this is all really rather clever.

651
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:53.819
An autorial note to self that accidentally got her name written in

652
00:33:53.819 --> 00:33:54.299
front of it.

653
00:33:55.019 --> 00:34:02.460
I have to say that I enjoyed the complexity of series CX even if I

654
00:34:02.460 --> 00:34:06.599
think there were significant lapses in taste from time to time.

655
00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:13.019
And so I actually found this one just a little bit empty.

656
00:34:13.019 --> 00:34:17.280
And it's because I'm a massive fan of a Christmas carol.

657
00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:21.000
I think it's extraordinary and really clever and very moving.

658
00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:24.539
Whereas I think...

659
00:34:24.539 --> 00:34:27.539
It's very linear for a Moffat.

660
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:30.960
There is one thing where something at the end of the episode

661
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:35.280
causes something to happen right at the beginning of the episode.

662
00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:39.659
So there is at least one little bit that's out of chronological

663
00:34:39.659 --> 00:34:43.619
order, but after the sort of riotous successes of series 6, it

664
00:34:43.619 --> 00:34:49.380
just seemed a little bit spare and just a little bit simple.

665
00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:53.280
And even the fact that the aliens sort of don't have their own

666
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:56.699
voices and barely speak.

667
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:58.440
And so it is...

668
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.699
I mean, at Christmas the rules are different, aren't they?

669
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:06.659
It doesn't really have to be a Doctor Who adventure as such, it

670
00:35:06.659 --> 00:35:09.780
can be a sort of short story, which is almost what this is.

671
00:35:09.900 --> 00:35:14.099
And the doctor also operates under different principles at

672
00:35:14.099 --> 00:35:14.579
Christmas.

673
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:18.960
So last year he went back and interfered with someone's past in a

674
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:21.780
way that he would never do otherwise, but it's Christmas and he

675
00:35:21.780 --> 00:35:23.460
got the idea from Charles Dickens.

676
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:28.619
And here the doctor can be called upon by making a wish because

677
00:35:28.619 --> 00:35:31.559
he's essentially kind of magical.

678
00:35:31.619 --> 00:35:33.719
And like, I think that's okay.

679
00:35:33.780 --> 00:35:37.920
I do think that's okay, but it just seemed to lack incident and

680
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:39.420
stuff like that.

681
00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:46.440
I was on board with the loss and triumphant return of Reg as sort

682
00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:51.119
of really good, proper emotional moments, but the rest of it

683
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:53.639
didn't really wow me.

684
00:35:53.699 --> 00:35:56.280
It's kind of a palate cleanser, isn't it?

685
00:35:56.340 --> 00:36:00.599
After that previous year of completely insane over the top jumble

686
00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:01.980
of things all going on.

687
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:03.539
And I could see why they went for that.

688
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:03.840
Yeah.

689
00:36:03.900 --> 00:36:05.699
But I was kind of like, I don't know.

690
00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:06.360
I'd get right.

691
00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:07.860
Hoping is the wrong word to use.

692
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:11.400
I'm just going to say in my mind's eye, there was a version of

693
00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:13.800
this that ends with the reapers arriving to collect reg.

694
00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:21.179
That would be the more gremlins.

695
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:25.860
But I mean, he never dies. like she doesn't change time.

696
00:36:25.980 --> 00:36:30.960
What had always happened was that he had followed her when she had

697
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:34.860
gone back in the past to the 20th of December and that's why he

698
00:36:34.860 --> 00:36:37.739
went missing because he went forward to Christmas Day.

699
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:40.920
He took a shortcut, which they say in the dialogue.

700
00:36:40.980 --> 00:36:42.780
So time hasn't been changed.

701
00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:44.880
It's just happened in the wrong order, I think.

702
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:48.539
Yeah, I wonder what happened to the rest of his crew.

703
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:50.159
I just...

704
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:51.239
Yeah, where were I?

705
00:36:51.300 --> 00:36:53.219
It got dark out there.

706
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:55.079
We thought we were never going to make it back and I was really

707
00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:55.380
hungry.

708
00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:59.579
They were way, although, they were weighing me down.

709
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:04.079
Well, one of them is injured, aren't they?

710
00:37:04.139 --> 00:37:06.420
So I think the other one is tending to the injured man.

711
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:07.679
That's Yeah.

712
00:37:07.739 --> 00:37:08.460
Oh okay.

713
00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:10.619
There are a bunch of sort of scene trims.

714
00:37:10.619 --> 00:37:14.940
And in one of those, as Reg and Badger reuniting on the lawn, the

715
00:37:14.940 --> 00:37:18.119
hatch pops open at the top of the bomber and the co-pilot pops it

716
00:37:18.119 --> 00:37:18.360
out.

717
00:37:18.420 --> 00:37:22.079
Sir, what, in fact, is happening.

718
00:37:22.980 --> 00:37:27.300
And I think they cut it because Alexander Armstrong's reply is

719
00:37:27.300 --> 00:37:29.880
very twee, which is, I told you, we're home for Christmas.

720
00:37:29.940 --> 00:37:31.260
Check on headless.

721
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:35.579
And, you know, I think that's the kind of thing you can just

722
00:37:35.579 --> 00:37:39.719
assume that after a bit of a snog, they went, oh, crap, I've got a

723
00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:42.420
man with a ruptured spleen, because someone call a hospital.

724
00:37:55.679 --> 00:37:59.159
I felt exactly the same way as you, Nathan, that, because I

725
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:02.579
unashamedly love Stephen Moffatt and the complexity and the

726
00:38:02.579 --> 00:38:04.980
cleverness and everything that Pete hates about it.

727
00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:09.599
So yeah, I found the same as this one.

728
00:38:09.659 --> 00:38:13.139
It's very, it's very linear, straightforward A to B sort of

729
00:38:13.139 --> 00:38:13.500
story.

730
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:16.500
And I think I, to be honest, tend to sort of probably miss it out

731
00:38:16.500 --> 00:38:18.780
and rewatches a little bit as well because it's not essential in

732
00:38:18.780 --> 00:38:19.199
any way.

733
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:24.599
And, uh, and and also I think a little bit, because my dad died

734
00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:28.019
when I was 9 and it reminds me a little bit of that as well, I

735
00:38:28.019 --> 00:38:30.780
think, you know, my mum sort of, you know, doing her best at that

736
00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:34.139
and, you know, trying to sort of feel that gap.

737
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:39.059
So it's, uh, yeah, I think same as you, Brendan, very emotional

738
00:38:39.059 --> 00:38:41.880
watch at times, you know, in various scenes.

739
00:38:41.940 --> 00:38:44.820
I think those bits really, really land.

740
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:47.699
I'm really pleased to watch it again, actually, for after so long

741
00:38:47.699 --> 00:38:50.340
because it's, I did really enjoy it this time, whereas I'd kind of

742
00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:52.559
dismissed it a little bit, I think, in the past.

743
00:38:53.579 --> 00:38:57.780
I think Moffat is constantly reacting against himself as well.

744
00:38:57.780 --> 00:39:03.179
And so next year, he will do none of the complexity really that

745
00:39:03.179 --> 00:39:06.360
characterise series 6 or even five.

746
00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:11.820
And that's a thing he kind of staggers back and forth from year to

747
00:39:11.820 --> 00:39:15.179
year from one extreme to another, reacting against things he did

748
00:39:15.179 --> 00:39:18.599
in the previous season in a way where Russell has a very

749
00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:20.820
consistent vision for what Doctor Who is.

750
00:39:21.659 --> 00:39:25.260
Moffatt is a bit more experimental, I think, which is why

751
00:39:25.260 --> 00:39:27.719
sometimes he falls over spectacularly.

752
00:39:27.780 --> 00:39:31.739
But when he hits it, you know, it's really quite amazing.

753
00:39:31.739 --> 00:39:34.559
Yeah, I think things land here.

754
00:39:34.619 --> 00:39:35.400
Yeah.

755
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:44.460
Something I totally love about Siri 6 is how Moffatt and the other

756
00:39:44.460 --> 00:39:48.539
writers at Moffatt chooses write about families.

757
00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:52.079
And there's a lot of stories about fathers in the season leading

758
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:52.559
up to that.

759
00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:56.880
Avery, there's Alex in Night Terrors, and there's Craig, of

760
00:39:56.880 --> 00:39:57.179
course.

761
00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:00.659
And now we get a story about a mother.

762
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:06.539
And what's so often the case in sitcoms is the mother's the

763
00:40:06.539 --> 00:40:08.519
sensible one and the father's the fun one.

764
00:40:08.579 --> 00:40:11.519
And we do get that set up, as you were saying, at the beginning of

765
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:15.420
this, Nathan, but it then settles.

766
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:19.679
And the thing that annoys me about that kind of setup is it's

767
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:23.099
implied that the mother is only strong because the father is

768
00:40:23.099 --> 00:40:23.880
foolish.

769
00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:30.780
Whereas here, both parents are incredibly decent, upstanding and

770
00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:36.480
kind people, and their kindness and link to each other is what

771
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:39.539
brings them together in the end, and I am choking up a bit.

772
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:46.500
Um, I think that what appeals to me about this story so much is

773
00:40:46.500 --> 00:40:52.139
just sort of how pure it is in, we're giving you a very happy

774
00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:52.679
story.

775
00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:56.219
And then at the end, it's like, no, we're still giving you a very

776
00:40:56.219 --> 00:41:00.179
happy story, you know, this isn't, we've done all this, but

777
00:41:00.179 --> 00:41:02.519
there's still heartbreaking, the world was like, no, for once.

778
00:41:02.579 --> 00:41:06.000
We're going to bring everything back together at the end.

779
00:41:06.059 --> 00:41:12.000
And then, of course, Madge returns the favour to the doctor by

780
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:15.179
saying, well, go see your family, you idiot.

781
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:19.260
I have one reservation about it.

782
00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:25.619
And it is based on what you just said, Brendan, about the way it

783
00:41:25.619 --> 00:41:27.119
characterises men and women.

784
00:41:27.179 --> 00:41:35.880
And Pete, you already alluded to the lady driver thing. redeem

785
00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:36.360
itself?

786
00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:41.820
Yeah. she cries to get her own way and then she crashes a car, she

787
00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:44.340
crashes a giant thing, but then in the end she saves a day by

788
00:41:44.340 --> 00:41:47.400
flying a giant ping-pong ball through the already pre-rendered

789
00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:50.099
opening title sequence, which is very interesting.

790
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:52.500
And I proved that that's what we want, that's that's nice. a nice

791
00:41:52.500 --> 00:41:52.800
touch.

792
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:56.460
Yeah, I can't decide whether that is a self-redeeming thing

793
00:41:56.460 --> 00:41:59.760
because it does those 3 things and the 3rd one's the twist. don't

794
00:41:59.760 --> 00:41:59.880
know.

795
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:01.619
I mean, she pulls a gun on them.

796
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:03.000
I think that's pretty cool.

797
00:42:03.059 --> 00:42:06.300
Like, they think it's just the wool.

798
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:08.280
And she gets some fantastic lines.

799
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:10.920
I love the bit right at the end where she says to one of the kids

800
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:12.360
something like this was bound to happen.

801
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:18.840
That is one of the funniest slides of the lot.

802
00:42:18.900 --> 00:42:22.440
I'll try and park my my inner script, Karen, kicks in whenever I

803
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:26.159
want to go back to this era. you know, like, um, as soon as the

804
00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:28.440
end credits, I think all fans have it to a certain extent, and

805
00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:30.480
some people make a career out of it, but like as soon as the end

806
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:32.760
credits start rolling, you're like, oh, I want to speak to the

807
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:36.480
script editor, that was not, I did not order a red herring.

808
00:42:36.539 --> 00:42:39.360
I demand to speak to the manager of this episode.

809
00:42:39.420 --> 00:42:41.760
And actually, you've got to just roll with it and love it for what

810
00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:42.000
it is.

811
00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:45.179
The thing I think you're going to talk about was the backstory

812
00:42:45.179 --> 00:42:50.039
that Reg followed Madge home until she sort of relented, which is

813
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:51.780
a reprise of blink, isn't it?

814
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:53.039
Yeah, yeah.

815
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:56.699
The lady that gets sent back in time just gets stalked into

816
00:42:56.699 --> 00:42:57.719
submission.

817
00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:03.119
Yeah, because Moffatt is a sort of romantic slash sex comedy

818
00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:04.019
writer.

819
00:43:04.139 --> 00:43:08.219
He sort of leans into that trope and obviously the persistent man

820
00:43:08.219 --> 00:43:10.079
is part of that.

821
00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:16.260
But also I think the manchild or the man is an idiot and the woman

822
00:43:16.260 --> 00:43:22.139
as, you know, she's strong and she's able to look after the

823
00:43:22.139 --> 00:43:26.940
children and she can hold an entire forest inside her because of

824
00:43:26.940 --> 00:43:27.900
her great strength.

825
00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:29.820
In a way.

826
00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:35.760
Obviously, that's a tribute to motherhood, but in a way, also it's

827
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:39.420
and that's why you change the nappies while I'm watching

828
00:43:39.420 --> 00:43:40.139
television.

829
00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:44.039
You know, like it, it just strikes me as a little bit of a

830
00:43:44.039 --> 00:43:44.400
problem.

831
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:49.079
And with the, with the, you know, he followed me home everyday

832
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:53.219
thing, you can so easily fix that if the doctor says, oh, bit

833
00:43:53.219 --> 00:43:54.300
creepy.

834
00:43:54.300 --> 00:43:55.679
And she responds, yes, I know.

835
00:43:55.739 --> 00:43:57.360
I had to walk past him 7 times.

836
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:01.380
It makes it clear that, no, no, no.

837
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:03.000
I made him do that.

838
00:44:03.059 --> 00:44:04.199
I wanted him to do that.

839
00:44:04.260 --> 00:44:08.639
You know, but at the same time, that is what men did in the in the

840
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:10.139
20s and 30s, you know.

841
00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:14.219
It just would have been nice if there was a comment there or even

842
00:44:14.219 --> 00:44:15.780
Lily saying, well, I'm not going to do that.

843
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:20.519
You know, just to kind of say she's going to be, by the time she's

844
00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:23.219
an adult, it's going to be the cusp of the 60s and, you know.

845
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:28.019
I mean, the reason that Bill is a lesbian, isn't it, is because

846
00:44:28.019 --> 00:44:31.980
Moffatt, when he was riding the pilot, wanted to have these sort

847
00:44:31.980 --> 00:44:36.119
of love interest that pursues Bill, and he's realised by that

848
00:44:36.119 --> 00:44:40.380
point that actually that's really quite creepy, and if we make her

849
00:44:40.380 --> 00:44:44.340
heather, then it won't have those sort of unpleasant

850
00:44:44.340 --> 00:44:45.059
associations.

851
00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:48.300
So Moffatt does learn from this stuff.

852
00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:51.599
But yeah, this is the 2nd time he's deployed that trope and

853
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:56.519
looking at it in 2021, it does look like a bit of a problem.

854
00:44:56.579 --> 00:45:00.480
Particularly in the tiny montage that we glimpse, he's stalking it

855
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:01.320
through woodland as well.

856
00:45:06.059 --> 00:45:08.280
He's a fendoline.

857
00:45:25.500 --> 00:45:29.460
Honestly, if you cut the words human newwominy from this episode

858
00:45:29.460 --> 00:45:30.900
it becomes one of my favourites.

859
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:34.199
That's like, it just, that knocked me off my chair.

860
00:45:34.260 --> 00:45:38.519
There's science, Y and C, and humany Wuminy, isn't there that, yeah

861
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:39.599
it's...

862
00:45:39.659 --> 00:45:43.860
And we have had bumpy wumpy, I think, at some point in series 6

863
00:45:43.860 --> 00:45:46.679
and I really, really dislike it.

864
00:45:46.739 --> 00:45:53.579
It's not quite as bad as squeaky bum time in the Hungry Earth or

865
00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:55.199
Cold Blood, one of those.

866
00:45:55.260 --> 00:45:58.139
But those things, I think, are a bit unfortunate.

867
00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:02.219
And I think Matt can get away with silly words and sort of posh

868
00:46:02.219 --> 00:46:05.280
nursery speak and all of that sort of thing, but I think that's

869
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:05.699
too much.

870
00:46:05.940 --> 00:46:07.380
Hmm.

871
00:46:07.380 --> 00:46:12.659
Something I remembered was that humany womeny was the last line of

872
00:46:12.659 --> 00:46:13.079
the episode.

873
00:46:13.139 --> 00:46:15.719
Like, I remember the doctor realising he's crying and saying

874
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:16.920
huminy wominy.

875
00:46:16.980 --> 00:46:20.820
And I'm so glad I had that memory wrong because I think I just

876
00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:25.019
think it's so much more effective that the doctor doesn't say

877
00:46:25.019 --> 00:46:25.440
anything.

878
00:46:25.500 --> 00:46:30.239
Like it's it's all just a physical acting choice.

879
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:34.860
And, you know, for me, in terms of sentimentality, that ending is

880
00:46:34.860 --> 00:46:38.820
up there with, and they lived happily from the husbands of River

881
00:46:38.820 --> 00:46:39.239
Song.

882
00:46:39.420 --> 00:46:44.219
I really, really think that final scene is pitched incredibly

883
00:46:44.219 --> 00:46:44.579
well.

884
00:46:44.699 --> 00:46:45.599
Yep.

885
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:49.019
I was super happy to see Amy and Rory at Christmas.

886
00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:51.659
I think we knew at that point they were going to be back.

887
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:57.659
But having this story have an effect on the doctor, like the

888
00:46:57.659 --> 00:47:02.099
Christmas invasion, has a doctor who previously didn't do domestic

889
00:47:02.099 --> 00:47:07.320
stuff going home and spending Christmas with Jackie and Rose, which

890
00:47:07.320 --> 00:47:10.559
is one of the highlights of the show's history for me, frankly.

891
00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:12.420
So having them come back.

892
00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:14.400
And having Amy...

893
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:20.039
Like Amy is, she's doing a Peter Capaldi, she's going to squirt

894
00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:27.480
Christmas carollers with the... and just having them stare at one

895
00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:33.840
another and refuse to make the 1st move and that doesn't matter

896
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:38.099
because they're so perfectly in sync that they just kind of go for

897
00:47:38.099 --> 00:47:42.960
it at exactly the same time and her laughter at him and all of

898
00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:45.780
that is just it's just terrifically well done.

899
00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:51.000
There's a prequel to this one as well, so-called prequel that I'd

900
00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:52.019
forgotten about that.

901
00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:55.139
I just found on the disc when I was watching this where it's set

902
00:47:55.139 --> 00:47:58.920
on the spaceship at the start just before we joined the events

903
00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:01.500
where he's got his hand on a button and he's saying as soon as I

904
00:48:01.500 --> 00:48:02.099
let go this.

905
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:05.519
The ship's going to start to blow up and he's phoning Amy in the

906
00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:07.500
TARDIS saying, I'll give you the coordinates. you can come and

907
00:48:07.500 --> 00:48:09.480
pick me up and he goes, oh no, actually, you're not there anymore

908
00:48:09.480 --> 00:48:09.719
are you?

909
00:48:09.780 --> 00:48:10.920
And you haven't been there for a while.

910
00:48:10.980 --> 00:48:14.340
So that sort of bookends the, you know, the Amy stuff a little bit

911
00:48:14.340 --> 00:48:16.440
and highlights that he's actually missing her and thinking about

912
00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:16.679
it.

913
00:48:16.739 --> 00:48:19.019
But I don't think you really miss anything from that.

914
00:48:19.500 --> 00:48:21.539
So how does it hang?

915
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:23.760
The previous episode ends with him.

916
00:48:23.820 --> 00:48:25.139
I'm going to go dark.

917
00:48:25.199 --> 00:48:26.280
I'm going to lurk in the shadows.

918
00:48:26.340 --> 00:48:29.460
I got too big, which I was, I cheered.

919
00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:34.260
And then, then, he just sort of changes his mind and comes back

920
00:48:34.260 --> 00:48:38.099
and why was it important that he, to him, that they thought he was

921
00:48:38.099 --> 00:48:38.579
dead.

922
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:41.579
And then he just changes his mind and it's like, oh, okay.

923
00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:42.780
Actually, yeah, it's Christmas.

924
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:43.860
I'll just not bother doing that anymore.

925
00:48:44.099 --> 00:48:46.199
I don't think it's important.

926
00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:48.659
They thought they were dead, but they'd stopped travelling with

927
00:48:48.659 --> 00:48:53.099
him already in the God complex and had the, you know, he'd bought

928
00:48:53.099 --> 00:48:54.420
them the house and the car and everything.

929
00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:56.579
I thought, oh, you got the impression you just thought, well, their

930
00:48:56.579 --> 00:48:59.880
travels had naturally come to a close and then he was going to go

931
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:00.599
off and do his new stuff.

932
00:49:00.900 --> 00:49:04.260
He doesn't know that Rivers told them he's not dead, does he?

933
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:06.420
Amy reveals that to him at that point.

934
00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:08.280
It's a very nice moment, but just let me think, well, why did he

935
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:08.639
do it then?

936
00:49:08.699 --> 00:49:14.039
I think the reason is that he did originally die in episode one

937
00:49:14.039 --> 00:49:17.579
and then that information was sort of widely known.

938
00:49:17.639 --> 00:49:20.460
Like the test selector had that information.

939
00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:25.440
And the changes he makes in Wedding of River song are very

940
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:26.400
minimal.

941
00:49:26.460 --> 00:49:32.340
So he does a change that's consistent with what everyone knows, and

942
00:49:32.340 --> 00:49:36.420
so it doesn't break the timeline, whereas River makes a big change

943
00:49:36.420 --> 00:49:38.219
that does break the timeline.

944
00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:42.360
And so he has to come out of it being known to be dead so that

945
00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:45.239
river still goes to prison, blah, blah, blah, you know, the whole

946
00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:45.480
thing.

947
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:49.500
And so I think that that's why he goes dark.

948
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:55.320
But I also think that the show generally has a problem oscillating

949
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:57.300
between whether the doctor's famous or not.

950
00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:02.099
You might remember at the end of World War 3, the doctor gives

951
00:50:02.099 --> 00:50:08.219
Mickey a CD ROM that has a computer virus on it that's going to

952
00:50:08.219 --> 00:50:12.179
delete him from everyone's database so no one knows who he is on

953
00:50:12.179 --> 00:50:12.840
earth anymore.

954
00:50:12.900 --> 00:50:15.480
And now he, the doctor's going dark.

955
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:20.579
In the very next episode after this, he will wipe his records from

956
00:50:20.579 --> 00:50:23.400
the Daleks database and they won't know who he is.

957
00:50:23.460 --> 00:50:27.119
And I think it's a weird thing because the universe is big.

958
00:50:27.179 --> 00:50:27.840
Time is big.

959
00:50:27.900 --> 00:50:31.380
The doctor can always turn up and no one knows who he or she is

960
00:50:31.380 --> 00:50:34.860
and that doesn't seem weird or surprising to anyone in the

961
00:50:34.860 --> 00:50:35.280
audience.

962
00:50:35.340 --> 00:50:37.980
So, you know, why is it a problem?

963
00:50:38.039 --> 00:50:41.820
The idea that the doctor's famous works because he's been around

964
00:50:41.820 --> 00:50:44.940
for 50 years and blown up lots of people and stuff.

965
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:48.300
So he can be famous, but he doesn't have to be famous everywhere.

966
00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:52.139
Yeah, because there was like this sort of phase, lasted about 10

967
00:50:52.139 --> 00:50:55.559
years, of the series where that fundamental awesomeness of the

968
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:58.679
doctor and the effect that that awesomeness has on everyone the

969
00:50:58.679 --> 00:51:01.679
doctor meets and the doctor's celebrity, just, it's always an

970
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:03.420
element of the show, but it seemed to get right to the front

971
00:51:03.420 --> 00:51:06.599
during the Russell T. Davis Moffatt eras.

972
00:51:06.659 --> 00:51:10.440
Um, and and now, now with, with the gyminal era, it's a different

973
00:51:10.440 --> 00:51:12.360
kind of mythos obsession.

974
00:51:12.420 --> 00:51:15.960
But they try to do this palate cleansing thing of let's clear the

975
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:17.519
decks. nobody knowing who the doctor is.

976
00:51:17.579 --> 00:51:18.179
And those are the stories.

977
00:51:18.239 --> 00:51:20.940
I love it when the doctor has to prove that the doctor is someone

978
00:51:20.940 --> 00:51:24.719
worth trusting, but to the characters they meet and that sort of

979
00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:24.900
thing.

980
00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:27.480
And if it's just, if it's just, oh, the doctor, I'm just going to

981
00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:28.800
say my name and the monsters run away.

982
00:51:28.860 --> 00:51:33.300
That was fun the 1st time it was done in silence in the library

983
00:51:33.360 --> 00:51:34.679
1st time it was sort of done in this way.

984
00:51:34.739 --> 00:51:39.719
But when it becomes a really regular prop beat of almost every

985
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:40.079
episode.

986
00:51:40.139 --> 00:51:44.280
I'm like, this isn't adventures in space and time of the type that

987
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:44.820
I'm looking for.

988
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:46.920
Probably done the same about Sherlock Holmes, probably, when he

989
00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:47.460
becomes famous.

990
00:51:47.519 --> 00:51:49.079
I could complain about that too.

991
00:51:49.139 --> 00:51:52.320
Conan Doyle did all right despite despite my opinions.

992
00:51:52.380 --> 00:51:56.519
I think it's the show just kind of going meta on a particular

993
00:51:56.519 --> 00:52:01.260
level, you know, that as viewers, we've been watching the doctor

994
00:52:01.260 --> 00:52:03.780
for 50 years do this all the time.

995
00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:07.800
And the show has interrogated that both at the end of series 5 and

996
00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:11.639
the end of series 6 where the monsters gang up on him because he's

997
00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:13.559
so terrifying and destructive.

998
00:52:13.619 --> 00:52:17.280
And that's a true picture of the doctor that the audience had.

999
00:52:17.340 --> 00:52:20.219
And so for us, he's like that.

1000
00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:25.139
And so that kind of leaks into the reality of the program, which

1001
00:52:25.139 --> 00:52:28.860
is a pretty contentious term when you're talking about the

1002
00:52:28.860 --> 00:52:29.940
moffeteer, aren't you?

1003
00:52:30.119 --> 00:52:35.159
I think also with the whole Amy and Rory thing, in Let's Kill

1004
00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:43.139
Hitler, he views Amy before she met him as the only person he

1005
00:52:43.139 --> 00:52:44.219
hasn't screwed up.

1006
00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:48.599
And he sort of acknowledges on some level that every time he comes

1007
00:52:48.599 --> 00:52:51.300
back into Amy's life, things get worse for her.

1008
00:52:51.300 --> 00:52:55.380
So when he leaves her, as you said, Mark, he buys them the house

1009
00:52:55.380 --> 00:52:57.960
he buys them the car, and he's like, I'm giving you every

1010
00:52:57.960 --> 00:53:02.340
opportunity, and I want you safe, and that's why you can't travel

1011
00:53:02.340 --> 00:53:03.420
with me anymore.

1012
00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:08.940
And I think that's the reason he's staying away because he sees

1013
00:53:08.940 --> 00:53:10.860
himself as their bad luck charm.

1014
00:53:10.860 --> 00:53:12.179
And...

1015
00:53:12.179 --> 00:53:19.860
I love that when he turns up, there is no recrimination beyond a

1016
00:53:19.860 --> 00:53:22.619
spray in the face with a water pistol and they're like, come in

1017
00:53:22.619 --> 00:53:23.159
for Christmas dinner.

1018
00:53:23.219 --> 00:53:24.000
He's like, what are you talking about?

1019
00:53:24.059 --> 00:53:24.719
You weren't expecting me.

1020
00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:26.880
And they're like, we always put out a placing for you.

1021
00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:28.800
Just in case.

1022
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:31.739
And, you know, they're putting out milk and bickies for Santa.

1023
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:32.940
You know what I mean?

1024
00:53:33.239 --> 00:53:36.719
Um, and flashing forward a bit.

1025
00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:41.820
I so wish this was the last appearance of Amy and Rory.

1026
00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:43.920
It's so lovely and so perfect.

1027
00:53:43.980 --> 00:53:46.739
And then you can start the following season with the doctor, having

1028
00:53:46.739 --> 00:53:50.159
made peace with them and, you know, everything's good and

1029
00:53:50.159 --> 00:53:55.019
everything's fine and kind of weird timiness, we're now in like, I

1030
00:53:55.019 --> 00:53:58.139
think I think someone figured out that the power of 3 has to take

1031
00:53:58.139 --> 00:54:03.119
place after day of the doctor because of all the time jobs because

1032
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:04.079
it's been 2 years.

1033
00:54:04.139 --> 00:54:04.679
Yeah.

1034
00:54:04.800 --> 00:54:05.460
Yeah.

1035
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:08.039
And, you know, then there's like a, I think, something like a

1036
00:54:08.039 --> 00:54:11.219
three-year time jump during Power of three.

1037
00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:15.719
There's literally no reason to believe that Moffat isn't doing

1038
00:54:15.719 --> 00:54:19.199
that just to annoy the people who edit TARDIS we care.

1039
00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:20.039
Yeah, yeah.

1040
00:54:20.099 --> 00:54:24.000
Well, it's for the next edition of the discontinuity guy.

1041
00:54:24.059 --> 00:54:27.179
Paul Cornell's like, I'm not touching that with a barge pole.

1042
00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:28.139
I get real work now.

1043
00:54:29.340 --> 00:54:33.659
And I think having a water pistol moment immediately before a

1044
00:54:33.659 --> 00:54:37.320
scene where the doctor is probably seen to be crying is a nice

1045
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:40.019
little touch to, oh, look, if you can't handle this, you can just

1046
00:54:40.019 --> 00:54:42.480
say that it was the water pistol and he's thinking about crying.

1047
00:54:42.539 --> 00:54:46.139
If Time Lord Tears are too upsetting for you, then I'm giving you

1048
00:54:46.139 --> 00:54:46.559
an out here.

1049
00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:52.679
I mean, he has cried before and he visibly cries, you know, in

1050
00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:57.300
doctor's wife and so on, but the happy cry, which he thought was a

1051
00:54:57.300 --> 00:55:01.320
human, a weird human thing, a very sort of sweet human thing.

1052
00:55:01.380 --> 00:55:05.880
And so obviously it is because he's half human that he does that.

1053
00:55:30.179 --> 00:55:33.539
Well, the listener, that's all we have time for this year.

1054
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:38.280
We'll be back in 2022 to talk to you about Doctor Who Series 7.

1055
00:55:38.340 --> 00:55:42.480
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1056
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:45.719
and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook

1057
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:49.019
at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website

1058
00:55:49.019 --> 00:55:52.380
FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other

1059
00:55:52.380 --> 00:55:57.179
podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterterra, maximum power, and

1060
00:55:57.179 --> 00:55:59.099
untitled Star Trek project.

1061
00:55:59.340 --> 00:56:01.980
Mark, where can people find you online?

1062
00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:08.280
I am on Twitter as at Quark McMullis, and you can find me on the

1063
00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:12.840
Trot One podcast, along with Pete, uh, Saiha, Conrad, uh, other

1064
00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:15.000
people that you've heard on Flight Throntoti, and some other

1065
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:15.659
brilliant people.

1066
00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:16.860
I know maximum power.

1067
00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:19.320
And Pete, where can people find you?

1068
00:56:19.380 --> 00:56:24.059
Yeah, hi, I'm underscore quite a mess on Twitter and a roving

1069
00:56:24.059 --> 00:56:24.599
podcast.

1070
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:27.539
For some reason, people keep letting me go on podcasts, so I'll

1071
00:56:27.539 --> 00:56:29.880
turn up whatever I'm invited to because it's lovely to speak to

1072
00:56:29.880 --> 00:56:32.340
intelligent, lovely people about fun TV programs.

1073
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:37.739
Until next time, remember, you're not dead and a happy New Year.

1074
00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:40.380
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1075
00:56:40.500 --> 00:56:41.699
Good night.

1076
00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:42.659
Good night.

1077
00:56:42.719 --> 00:56:43.380
Good night.

1078
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:51.179
That was flight through entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley

1079
00:56:51.179 --> 00:56:53.639
Brendan Jones, Pete Lambert, and Mark McManus.

1080
00:56:53.699 --> 00:56:55.860
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1081
00:56:55.920 --> 00:56:59.940
This episode, Digby, the biggest dog in the world, was recorded on

1082
00:56:59.940 --> 00:57:03.539
the 12th of December 2021 and released on Christmas Day.

1083
00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:08.280
Thank you to all of you for your time, your attention, your

1084
00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:10.079
support, and your friendship this year.

1085
00:57:10.139 --> 00:57:14.519
Enjoy the holiday season, and we look forward to joining you again

1086
00:57:14.519 --> 00:57:16.139
in 2022.

1087
00:57:22.739 --> 00:57:24.119
Yeah.

1088
00:57:24.179 --> 00:57:27.300
The looms malfunctioned on the table.

1089
00:57:27.420 --> 00:57:32.039
Well, got, I mean, I can't wait for Big Finishers series that's

1090
00:57:32.039 --> 00:57:33.599
teased in this, the war looms.

1091
00:57:33.659 --> 00:57:36.420
The war-master.

1092
00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:38.519
The newspaper headline, yeah.

1093
00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:41.219
The war looms.

1094
00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:43.679
Two neo genetic material.

1095
00:57:46.139 --> 00:57:48.000
Crazy Fields.

1096
00:57:48.059 --> 00:57:49.019
See your soul.

1097
00:57:49.079 --> 00:57:51.059
Give us an arm.

1098
00:57:54.059 --> 00:57:58.019
The only thing I've got is, did 12-year-old girls really say, oh

1099
00:57:58.019 --> 00:58:01.019
my God, a lot in 1941 because Lily does it.

1100
00:58:01.139 --> 00:58:02.219
She's about 3 times.

1101
00:58:02.340 --> 00:58:03.659
She's a profane.

1102
00:58:05.820 --> 00:58:07.440
I like her.

1103
00:58:07.500 --> 00:58:08.519
The doctor's quite rude to her.

1104
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:14.340
Well, in in a cup part of the script, he actually calls her stupid

1105
00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:17.820
because she's poo-pooing his brilliant ideas.

1106
00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:19.679
And reading a lot.

1107
00:58:19.800 --> 00:58:23.039
But does he get does he get a comeback on it, that it's actually

1108
00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:23.820
she turns out to be right?

1109
00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:25.679
Because she does with the stars.

1110
00:58:25.739 --> 00:58:27.179
She's saying, yeah, look at the stars.

1111
00:58:27.239 --> 00:58:28.559
Yeah, of course there's stars.

1112
00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:29.579
Stupid girl.

1113
00:58:29.820 --> 00:58:34.559
Yeah, but I mean, then it's like he's weak and she's strong.

1114
00:58:34.619 --> 00:58:35.760
Is that the payoff?

1115
00:58:35.880 --> 00:58:41.400
Yeah But that I, um, Stephen Moffat wrote, wrote this at the end

1116
00:58:41.400 --> 00:58:45.119
of a 4 month stint where he didn't have a day off and there's

1117
00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:48.179
loads of cut lines from the script where the, where Madge and the

1118
00:58:48.179 --> 00:58:49.800
doctor are just awful to the children.

1119
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:55.800
And it's like sort of one line in every 10 survives.

1120
00:58:56.639 --> 00:58:59.159
Muppet hasn't said this, but I think it's very much, you know, some

1121
00:58:59.159 --> 00:59:03.719
one of the scriptenders is going through and going, Jesus Christ.

1122
00:59:03.719 --> 00:59:05.159
Is this a comedy?

1123
00:59:06.780 --> 00:59:11.699
You know, I think that we've entered the tag season of our episode

1124
00:59:11.699 --> 00:59:16.500
now because I detected an out earlier on and I think that this

1125
00:59:16.500 --> 00:59:17.219
might be it.

1126
00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:19.559
So, um, what do you think?

1127
00:59:19.679 --> 00:59:20.760
Cool.

1128
00:59:20.760 --> 00:59:24.179
Is anyone bursting to say anything that wasn't addressed?

1129
00:59:25.380 --> 00:59:28.260
You persuaded me to like it a bit more than I did.

1130
00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:31.139
Hey, that's my function.

1131
00:59:32.579 --> 00:59:37.079
I think the only thing I read about a bit of sort of background on

1132
00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:40.980
this was that the wooden king came from a dream that Stephen

1133
00:59:40.980 --> 00:59:43.920
Moffatt had where he was a super...

1134
00:59:43.980 --> 00:59:47.219
Yeah, he was a superstitious child who thought that if he if he

1135
00:59:47.219 --> 00:59:50.280
accidentally slept facing the wall that something bad would happen

1136
00:59:50.280 --> 00:59:54.059
and he woke up one morning, thought he woke up facing the wall and

1137
00:59:54.059 --> 00:59:56.639
he turned around, there's a wooden king in his room.

1138
00:59:56.699 --> 01:00:00.420
So that sort of, uh, and it made me think that sort of magical

1139
01:00:00.420 --> 01:00:02.639
thinking creeps into the episode a little bit, doesn't it?

1140
01:00:02.699 --> 01:00:06.420
Because Madge says, if you read about the war, it's going to

1141
01:00:06.420 --> 01:00:06.599
happen.

1142
01:00:06.659 --> 01:00:09.719
It's going to bring it on and then the whole thing about making

1143
01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:12.599
the wish with the wishbone and all that type of stuff, which, um

1144
01:00:12.599 --> 01:00:15.840
it's not as bad as when the doctor does it in the next Christmas

1145
01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:19.440
specialties, uh, trying to make a deal with the universe, which is

1146
01:00:19.440 --> 01:00:22.679
just Noel Edmunds crap and I don't think should be, uh, should be

1147
01:00:22.679 --> 01:00:24.360
really something that the doctor's doing at the time.

1148
01:00:24.420 --> 01:00:27.780
I think it was Oprah, you know, like...

1149
01:00:27.780 --> 01:00:30.119
There's your episode title for next year's Christmas special

1150
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:31.079
already in the now.

1151
01:00:31.139 --> 01:00:34.139
I can be the 1st person to prename another episode.

1152
01:00:34.679 --> 01:00:38.280
We had cheated and done that a bunch of time, mostly for space

1153
01:00:38.280 --> 01:00:38.820
reasons.

1154
01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:39.659
Yeah.

1155
01:00:39.659 --> 01:00:45.420
I love those, we didn't talk about how good those costumes are.

1156
01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:46.980
I think they look really good.

1157
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:47.579
Yeah.

1158
01:00:47.579 --> 01:00:50.099
The wooden king and queen.

1159
01:00:50.159 --> 01:00:52.500
Yeah, one of them spot the queen is Paul Casey.

1160
01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:53.099
Yeah.

1161
01:00:53.219 --> 01:00:57.780
And look, if it's a matter of, you know, you attract your

1162
01:00:57.780 --> 01:01:01.199
nightmares, look, I can have a nightmare about Spencer Wilding

1163
01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:03.900
being at the foot of my bed.

1164
01:01:03.960 --> 01:01:08.760
The wooden king. and praise him, the minor tour.

1165
01:01:08.820 --> 01:01:11.699
Oh, wow, we love the monitor.

1166
01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:13.980
He's fit, isn't he?

1167
01:01:14.519 --> 01:01:17.519
I think those costumes are very excited about the moment.

1168
01:01:17.579 --> 01:01:19.980
I think those costumes are at the doctor experience in Cardiff as

1169
01:01:19.980 --> 01:01:23.400
well, and they look really impressive in real life as well. really

1170
01:01:23.400 --> 01:01:23.760
striking.

1171
01:01:24.300 --> 01:01:27.960
And what is Harry Hausen models, but full size?

1172
01:01:28.019 --> 01:01:28.860
Yeah, yeah.

1173
01:01:28.920 --> 01:01:34.260
And what is, I presume, CG for the facial movement is incredibly

1174
01:01:34.260 --> 01:01:35.159
well integrated.

1175
01:01:35.219 --> 01:01:37.619
Yeah, they're not linking, right?

1176
01:01:37.679 --> 01:01:39.000
Yeah, it must be CG.

1177
01:01:39.059 --> 01:01:40.260
Yeah.

1178
01:01:41.760 --> 01:01:43.800
All right, what do you think?

1179
01:01:43.860 --> 01:01:45.480
I think we've got a thing.

1180
01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:47.579
Sounds like an episode.

1181
01:01:47.639 --> 01:01:48.900
That was really fun.

1182
01:01:49.199 --> 01:01:53.400
I was wondering whether I was a bit FTE down because it like it

1183
01:01:53.400 --> 01:01:56.340
takes me like, you know, like I've spent literally all day, like

1184
01:01:56.340 --> 01:02:01.380
sort of 6 hours listening to this all go on about wedding of river

1185
01:02:01.380 --> 01:02:10.320
song. and um, We managed to get Todd up from a 7.5 to a 9 during

1186
01:02:10.320 --> 01:02:11.159
the course of that.

1187
01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:13.920
So, uh, that thing.

1188
01:02:13.980 --> 01:02:14.579
Yeah, I know.

1189
01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:19.619
I've put evidence in the tag where he says this was a 7.5 for me

1190
01:02:19.619 --> 01:02:21.420
and then at the end of it, he said it was a nine.

1191
01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:21.960
Wow.

1192
01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:22.500
Yeah.

1193
01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:23.219
Excellent.

1194
01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:23.940
Yeah.

1195
01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:25.800
This isn't for this episode.

1196
01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:27.000
I'm not going to remumerate.

1197
01:02:27.719 --> 01:02:31.380
I like it's all right. all right. very nice moments.

1198
01:02:32.519 --> 01:02:36.239
Watching this episode and watching Matt Smith with the 2

1199
01:02:36.239 --> 01:02:36.780
children.

1200
01:02:36.900 --> 01:02:41.039
I'm just kind of going, why have they not given Jody Whittaker any

1201
01:02:41.039 --> 01:02:41.760
scenes with children?

1202
01:02:41.820 --> 01:02:44.579
You know, everyone has had scenes with children.

1203
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:47.219
Because of all the heymail I send them.

1204
01:02:47.579 --> 01:02:50.280
Hey, children being a doctor.

1205
01:02:50.340 --> 01:02:52.980
These are the least the 2 least annoying children in the entire

1206
01:02:52.980 --> 01:02:54.960
mafia era.

1207
01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:56.880
I reckon more and more annoying every time.

1208
01:02:56.940 --> 01:03:00.360
Toby, I think, is really good in Curse of the Black Spot, I think

1209
01:03:00.420 --> 01:03:02.940
but he's older, like he's at 14 or something.

1210
01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:04.380
I think he's pretty good.

1211
01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:07.139
Yeah, the one saying literally, sorry.

1212
01:03:07.199 --> 01:03:09.900
The other colour ends up, maybe.

1213
01:03:09.960 --> 01:03:10.980
No.

1214
01:03:10.980 --> 01:03:12.179
Sorry, Mark, yeah.

1215
01:03:12.239 --> 01:03:12.659
You go.

1216
01:03:12.719 --> 01:03:13.440
You go, Mark.

1217
01:03:13.500 --> 01:03:16.980
The actor playing Lily here is 19 as well.

1218
01:03:17.039 --> 01:03:20.639
I think that's why she's quite, she's quite self-assured and stuff

1219
01:03:20.639 --> 01:03:20.760
yeah.

1220
01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:21.780
Yeah, yeah.

1221
01:03:22.139 --> 01:03:27.300
But, but, but, Pete, but, Pete, orphan 55, Jody doesn't even get

1222
01:03:27.300 --> 01:03:28.739
any scenes with the kid in that.

1223
01:03:29.219 --> 01:03:31.980
You know, the kid...

1224
01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:34.619
Yeah, but at least he's got stupid hair and actually saves the day

1225
01:03:34.619 --> 01:03:36.239
rather than just simpering.

1226
01:03:40.260 --> 01:03:41.820
So good.

1227
01:03:42.420 --> 01:03:43.980
All right.

1228
01:03:44.039 --> 01:03:45.360
I think we're done.

1229
01:03:45.420 --> 01:03:47.039
I think that was very...

1230
01:03:47.039 --> 01:03:48.119
So we can stop recording.

1231
01:03:48.179 --> 01:03:49.920
But do you want to do an outro perhaps?

1232
01:03:49.980 --> 01:03:51.900
Do you want to finish the episode?

1233
01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:52.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1234
01:03:53.039 --> 01:03:55.920
This is nearly my 100th episode, right, that I've run.

1235
01:03:56.340 --> 01:03:58.440
I still can't remember.

1236
01:03:58.500 --> 01:04:00.300
Episode 230.

1237
01:04:00.539 --> 01:04:02.219
So that's nearly 100.

1238
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:03.239
It's like 98.

1239
01:04:03.900 --> 01:04:04.559
I can't remember.

1240
01:04:06.659 --> 01:04:09.719
Fortunately, always someone who knows what they're doing.

1241
01:04:10.440 --> 01:04:15.780
Jesus Christ I'm sure I had a hilarious joke too that no one would

1242
01:04:15.780 --> 01:04:16.199
have heard.

1243
01:04:16.260 --> 01:04:17.760
All right, let's try it.

1244
01:04:17.820 --> 01:04:18.480
Right.

1245
01:04:19.500 --> 01:04:23.280
Well, the listener, that's all we have time for this year.