Hello, Delissa, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety.
The only Doctor Who podcast that really knows where its trowel
is.
I'm Nathan.
I'm Brendan.
I'm James.
I'm Fiona.
Well, we've rounded up a gang for some reason, and we're off to
investigate a giant spaceship hurtling towards planet Earth, as
usual.
It's all fun and games until David Bradley murders a Triceratops
in dinosaurs on a spaceship.
I'm going to nail my colours to the mask straight away and say, I
really like this episode.
Am I wrong?
Yes.
Am I a bad person?
Yes.
No, I quite enjoyed this one as well.
I enjoyed it at the time and have enjoyed it on each viewing since
coming to it with a slightly more critical eye this time, I have
questions, but we'll get into those.
Okay.
Are they about Brian's balls?
Oddly no.
So we start, I think, in a very odd way, which is the getting the
gang together, like a heist movie or something.
We're doing that.
How do we think that works as an idea?
Yeah, it was a little bit strange.
I'd actually, because I only rewatched it this morning and I'd had
actually forgotten that bit about how they got everybody
together.
No, I think it was okay, but it was a bit kind of...
The bit where they get the ponds is beautiful.
I think that's really, really great.
And I also like the fact that my 1st impressions with Queen
Nefatiti and Matt.
She's got him up against the TARDIS kind of, you know, being very
very forward and I like the way he's, he's not doing the, oh, I'm
sort of sexy kind of the doctor back.
He's just kind of like, oh, ha, ha, doing the whole sort of, oh
get me out of here kind of thing.
Yeah, which I, which I think is great.
I think it would be a bit if he kind of got all sexy back and went
hey, you know, hot woman, this is great.
I'm, I, sexy.
I think that would be a bit, but because he's playing the whole
never seen a girl before kind of line.
This is a bit awkward.
I think that works really well.
It's quite funny.
I think Russell's doctor is sexually confident, surprisingly, and
Moffatt's isn't.
And I think that, you know, that's basically it, isn't it?
Which is surprising.
Yeah, you would expect it to be the other way around.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
But I mean, if you think about Eccleston, perhaps the only time
that we really talk about sex with Eccleston is in the 2 episodes
that Moffatt writes, and he's a bit awkward about sex in those.
I mean, I'd also say Jabe.
Yeah, they're totally cross-pollinated.
Oh, no, he's super confident with Jane.
That was my 1st impression when you said that comment was, Jabe.
Yeah he's very confident in there.
Yeah, he's definitely a man who has experience.
And obviously, tenants doctor is insufferably sexually confident.
There is the, you know, still got it, sort of thing that he always
has, that sort of feeling.
And Matt always reacts like this to being hit on, which I think is
delightful.
Yeah, I love it. means that it's kind of okay.
I will also say for his doctor so far, kisses have generally been
bad news.
So like Amy kisses him and he immediately knows that he's almost
broken up a wedding.
Yeah.
River kisses him and it's like 1st time for everything and a
last.
River kisses him again because he's on the edge of death.
Well, River kisses him again and kills him and then kisses him
again and brings him back to live.
And then kisses him again and the universe reboots again.
He's probably expecting the whole pyramid to come down on top of
that.
Yeah, that's fair enough.
Euphemism and a half.
Yeah.
And then we get the very, very, very beautiful Rupert Graves as
Riddell, and he's really fun as well.
Yeah, yeah.
There's something...
Because all of that's played for kind of screwball comedy.
It does have a very moffity feel to it.
It's a little bit like getting the gang together, you know, a
demon's run.
It's kind of a thing that we've sort of done before, but it's
absolutely played for laughs.
And I think it does an important job of establishing that the
doctor has relationships and friendships with other people, which
is important thematically, I think, here.
Yeah, I really love that once they've gotten to the Indian space
agency, which I remember in 2012 thinking, of course, that's a
brilliant idea.
Because you think it's the international space agency because it's
the ISA, right?
Yeah.
And incidentally, I think the main the main prerequisite.
Well, the secondary prerequisite for working at the Indian Space
Agency, the main prerequisite is, of course, that you know about
space stuff.
The secondary prerequisite seems to be that you have to be really
hot.
Yeah.
All the men and women in the Indian space agency are really
noticeably hot and, you know, it...
Sorry, distracted.
But the thing I love in that scene is the doctor and Nefertiti
have been travelling for a while together because he calls her
nephew and she knows about screens and what have you.
And it's actually a lovely bit of shorthand from a writer who
sometimes overwrites character explanations.
And so I thought that was absolutely lovely.
I think Indian Space Agency, in retrospect, turns out to be
classic Chibnol, doesn't it?
He's showrunner when we have our 1st story set outside Europe
since what, the Aztecs or something?
So, so, so I think the Indian Space Agency is very cheap, Milly
and it is really good because it gives us the chance to have some
representation, and we get the gag where we think initially ISA is
International Space Agency, it turns out to be Indian.
And they're really great.
There's that wonderful line, isn't it?
Because he brings Nefatiti to the ISA and the woman there says
we're going to fire missiles at the ship.
And he says, oh, I really liked you until you said the word in his
eyes.
She's fabulously talked to her.
Chicken, I think, can do comedy and we will see that later this
season, won't we?
Well, there's some great comedy moments throughout this episode.
Yeah, I think so too.
In fact, primarily, I think what it does is just be a hilarious
romp with dinosaurs.
It absolutely does what it says on the tin.
So I just think it's terrifically enjoyable.
So you did get the title wrong at the beginning of the episodes.
It's dinosaurs.
On a space?
Yeah, yeah.
That's what we say leading into the credits.
I noticed there was a comment there in the subtitles when I was
watching it before.
Should have been an ellipse.
I feel like that's one of times where, you know, you can accuse
Chris Chipnall of overwriting, but this is one of those occasions
where no one else would have done anything different.
No, you had to do that.
That's happening.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
But doesn't Matt just perfectly encapsulate exactly what's going
in your inside your brain when you read that title for the 1st
time and you just have that childish reaction going dinosaurs on a
spaceship and he just like...
He's just articulating exactly what all of us are thinking because
I mean, every who didn't love dinosaurs when you were a kid and
you still do love dinosaurs.
I mean, yeah, you couldn't get much nicer than that dinosaurs and
a spaceship.
And it reminded me a little bit of his bit in the 1st episode back
in that season where the last season where he puts the helmet on
with the space helmet and he's like, look at this cool stuff.
The Impossible Astronaut.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, he finds that with a NASA gear and puts it on and he's
like, oh, this is so cool.
Like just geeking out and you're like, yeah, I'd do the same thing
if I was there.
Like, that's what you'd want to do is like put try it on and see
what it looks like.
Yeah, have fun.
Well, I think it's one of the best things about Matt is how much
he enjoys himself, like how much he loves his staff.
I did that at the Kennedy Space Museum.
Oh, did he?
You put the thing on?
Did Karen Gillen shoot you in the head?
And you said thank you.
You know, this is a great shot.
Now, this is something I've read, and I'm not sure if this was a
stage direction or if this was dialogue that was cut out of the
script, but apparently, according to the script, Brian, when he
sees the dinosaurs, believes that Rory and Amy have drugged him
and taken him to Alton Towers, which is a theme park in the UK and
that he was going to start wittering on about, you had to drug me
and bring me here because I hated it so much the 1st time and I
got sick on the road.
Okay, I'm running.
He is like absolutely incredible.
So we have actual Mark Williams from Red Dwarf, from Red Dwarf.
Harry Potter?
Yep, yeah. about that anymore.
Father Brown.
Yeah, yes, yes.
Yes. 10 seasons.
He's magnificent.
He's so great and he's so much your dad as well.
I know.
He was great hosting the Doctor Who symphonic spectacular.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
He did that with...
Alex King.
That's right.
Sydney yeah.
Yeah, no, I mean, he is just so tremendous.
And so the doctor materialises around him, which I just think is
terrific.
And Rory's reaction, like, why can't you phone ahead like a normal
person?
Yeah, it's like the doctor picks up Riddell and it's nice enough
to park the Titus a safe distance away and come along and sit down
and, hey, how you doing?
With Amy and Royal.
They'll want to come.
What can they be doing that's more important?
Of course, Matt, doesn't know you.
The doctor doesn't notice that he's picked him up until
afterwards.
And then and then he goes, oh, you thought I was stupid.
You thought I wouldn't notice, which is precisely what he did.
But he knew his name.
He caught him Brian.
Did you notice that?
He called him Brian.
Not Rory's dad.
He says Brian.
Yeah.
I think that here's the thing that we obviously don't care about
which is that we didn't see Rory's dad at the wedding and Rory's
dad doesn't know who the doctor is despite his spectacular
appearance at the wedding.
And I think at this point it's just like, ah, who cares?
You know, we had to explain...
We had to explain why Bernard Cribbins wasn't in the runaway
bride.
And we sort of did that, but what did it had Spanish flu or
something?
Yeah, yeah, something stupid.
And so now we're just not even bothering with that at this point.
No, we don't care because we've got Mark Williams and his wife.
Well, exactly.
What if they said, oh, well, we can't have Rory's dad in that
because it would introduce a continuity error.
So call Mark Williams up and tell him he's not needed.
I kind of wish you'd been playing this Olaf Peterson.
Yeah, not a pocket full of golf balls, a pocket full of lager
cans.
I developed a bit of a theory watching this and I was just kind of
watching it go.
And because Brian narrates what he's going through all the time
I'm riding a dinosaur.
I'm flying a spaceship.
I can say...
And I kind of went, well, you know, that's something Chris
Chibnell does.
He often has characters saying what they're doing in disbelief.
But then I thought, hold on, is he Chris Chibnall?
And then reading a bit like Christian.
Reading an interview, Chris Chipnell says, I'm afraid that I am
Brian, or at least that's what I will turn into, and that's where
the character came from.
It's like, yeah, exactly.
There's that moment at the very end where Rory is fixing the light
fitting and he also comes to the conclusion that it's the fitting
another bulb and then like, 0 my god, I'm turning into Brian. you
know I think it's just perfect. he'll come up later in the
season.
And perhaps if anything, be even more magnificent, I think.
And I just think the bit where he's injured and Rory is treating
him is one of the emotional highlights of this 1st half of the
season.
And it's a really emotional 1st half of the season with Amy and
Rory's relationship, but it's just really brilliantly
underplayed.
And there's been this subtle thing throughout of Brian's sort of
dissing Rory because he can't repair a light fitting.
He doesn't carry a trowel, you know, put it on your Christmas
list.
But here there's just that quiet moment of respect of, oh, okay, no
you're good at other things, which I think for children watching
at home is probably a very sweet moment if they're into something
say, like Doctor Who, that their parents might not be.
But also like something which is misogynistically typically
considered to be a female industry.
Yeah, yeah. has at times in the scriptwriting of this show been
used to emasculate him.
Yeah.
As a joke.
Yep.
And then played against.
That's actually a really powerful message to say to kids.
Like especially young, young boys, you can do this job.
It doesn't make you less for man.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's good.
That's a really good point.
Yeah.
There's something about adult children as well. that our parents
don't necessarily understand what it is that we're good at and
don't get the opportunity to see us doing that.
And so I found that quite affecting as well.
You know, and it, yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, same.
I related chat really heavily because um, for starters, like, you
know how, like, I'm into horses and riding and all that, like, my
parents have virtually never, ever watched me ride kind of thing
like, they've just, and even when they come, the rare occasions
where they come and stay with me, like, I go and ride and they
never come and watch sort of thing, and I kind of, part of me
wishes they take an interest, and then for work a couple of times
a year, I get to do PowerPoint presentations of my research in
front of people, and I had to drag my son along recently kicking
and screaming and I literally got quite upset.
I said, can't you, for, you know, just one time a year, be proud
of what I do?
Like, you know, like just, I want you to come and like just go, mom
is cool, you know, because I...
Yeah, and I but it was really like for me, it was a really big
deal for him to actually be in the audience and for me to kind of
show my stuff and go, hey, this is what I'm good at, baby.
Like, yeah.
So it is a big, it is a big thing.
Yeah, it's a very Doctor Who thing, I think, to have that family
relationship moment being caused by like a big stupid robot on a
giant spaceship and stuff.
You know, the setting is absurd.
But there's a little moment of kind of real human connection there
which I think is terrifically good.
Love it.
I'd like to say something about Riddell, because the 1st time
watching this series, Like this series was publicised as we're
doing a feature film every week, and you sort of get swept up with
that.
But this time watching it, I'm like, why is the doctor such good
friends with a big game hunter?
Yeah.
And I thought that's really weird. that has been brought up.
Yeah, and Amy refers to that in the dialogue too.
Doesn't she?
Because she says like, you know, when he's being a bit misogynist
and sort of going, like, I don't take orders from women and all
that and she said, well, you know, you're just some twat, who, who
shoots to poor defenceless animals, you know, why would I respect
you kind of thing?
Yeah.
So she totally stands up to him.
Yeah, well, when when he says, I don't take orders from women, I
think Nefertiti responds by saying, well, learn.
You know, like...
But notice that by the end of it, he and Nefertiti are together
and they're both using the tranquilliser stun guns on the animals
by the end.
So he learns not to be a big gamer.
And that was his idea too.
That's the thing, isn't it?
The doctor makes people better.
Yeah.
It's the getting a character who is flawed and making them become
a better person.
Yeah.
But not totally changing who he is.
So he's still, you know, he's still hunting.
What I found interesting when I read up on his character was that
much like Nefetiti, this character was originally going to be a
real historical figure.
Ah okay.
And he was going to be Charles Buffalo Jones, who was Buffalo.
A buffalo.
In America, in the 1800s.
In the Wild West.
Yes.
And he initially started out hunting Buffalo, but then realised
what wonderful creatures they were and worked on both preserving
and conserving them and the possibility of crossbreeding them with
cattle to make a hardier cow, which basically didn't work.
The offspring couldn't reproduce, and they were just as wilful as
the buffalo with no domestic qualities.
Oh, so like mules?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And the reason that was scuppered was this was being filmed with a
town called Mercy and would have gone out back to back and Moffatt
said, I'm sorry, Chris, we can't have to, we can't have 2 Wild
West characters in a row.
Yeah, so in choosing Redell and choosing for him to come from 1902
Chibnell's view was, let's take him from the end of that part of
the empire.
So he's on the way out anyway.
So he has to change.
And again, it's not overwritten for once.
No.
Yeah.
No, I mean, and he's mostly played for comedy.
Like he is, you know, charming and pretty, but absolutely
inappropriate all the time and he's constantly being lectured by
both Nefertiti and Amy.
And, you know, it turns out okay in the end.
I think it's, I think it's all right.
I have heard people object to him and particularly to him ending
up with their fatigue when he's been so kind of relentlessly awful
all the way through.
But I think he does learn. and I think he does get better and it's
Rupert Graves and he's charming as hell.
I almost didn't recognise him, not an EM Forster.
Well, it's Freddie.
He'll be in Sherlock, yeah.
Yeah, he is super pretty.
Freddie in A Room with a View, Helena Bottom Carter's Little
Brother, and he's... was so attractive.
Oh, he's so gorgeous.
That's where I 1st...
Floppy hair.
Yeah, he was...
Yeah, very loveable.
Very loveable.
Yeah.
I didn't have a problem with him ending up with Queen Nefertiti at
all because I think because she was, she's obviously very sexually
confident and he is as well.
And so it wasn't like, you know, he was either seducing her or
kind of throwing himself on her, like we had the other bit where
it is, sexual harassment with, um, David Bradley's character who's
just repulsive.
Yeah, Solomon, the, um, where it is basically, like, there's all
this stuff about, you know, rape and and definitely, you know
sexual assault that's really quite dark and horrible.
And Matt, at one stage, you can see on his face, he's just
repulsed by this character.
Like, but he, he's got that thing where he just wants to just kill
this guy, but he can't at that stage.
He can't do anything about it.
Um, but she's, Yeah, she's obviously confident in herself.
So for her ending up with redoubt at the end, it's like a
partnership.
They like equals.
I don't have an issue with that at all because it's something that
she's chosen to.
Whereas when Solomon takes her. very much against her will, but
she's brave enough to make that sacrifice because she feels that
it will save the others.
So, very powerful woman.
And and then free herself as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She's the one that she attacks him with the crutch.
Yeah.
It's not the doctor rescuing her.
No, no.
That rescue underwent many changes.
Right.
So initially, uh, the doctor was going to sort of push Neffi out
lock the door and he was going to be, I'm going to stay on the
ship with Solomon because, you know, that's the thing to do.
Then there was a version where Nefi pushed the doctor out and said
I will make sure the missiles hit us because, of course, Nefiti
kind of disappears from history in real history.
Okay.
And then the doctor was going to land the TARDIS around them and
Stephen Moffatt said, no, it needs to be a bit more proactive than
that.
And so Stephen Moffat and Chris Chip altogether, came up with, well
hold on.
She is the queen of Egypt, she can fight.
We've seen that this episode.
Why doesn't she take him out, and then the doctor does the science
y stuff, and then they both leave.
Yeah.
And I think that ending is perfect.
And I'm someone who has complained a lot about the last few years
of Doctor Who where the doctor just seems to let the villains
wander off.
And here we have the doctor leaving David Bradley in the spaceship
that's going to be hit by the missiles because he's put that
dodecahedron thing there for the missiles to home in on.
And I think it's great.
It is great.
I wanted him dead and I wanted the doctor to do something.
And he says beforehand, he says, did the Siderians beg you to
stop?
you know.
And one of the things that Chibill does too, is he inadvertently
sometimes includes things that are utterly, utterly horrible in
his stories without really kind of addressing them.
So for example, does the dog die.com in episode 6 or whatever of
flux.
So we have 7000000000 dogs die off screen and sort of nothing
really comes of that.
I think Carbon is to house and then we all get on with our lives.
Here, he does address the genocide of the Silurians, that David
Bradley and Mitchell and Webb have systematically killed 1000s of
Silurians.
And so he makes us feel that.
And I think once he kills Tracy.
That's it.
You know, he kills it is another...
That was unforgivable.
Yeah, does the dog die.com again.
You know, he just shoots the triceratops.
That was a...
That was a lot of dogs.
Yeah.
So I'm super on board with him just leaving him to be got by the
missiles.
He deserves it.
But how one, please, does Matt play it as well?
Because he's very calm and measured.
He's not at all hysterical about it.
And I was sort of thinking about, you know, with a bit about like
oh, did the Silurians beg for mercy?
I was thinking of Christopher Eccleston's confrontation with the
Dalek, you know, when he was torturing the Dalek, and he's just
that little bit at that stage, he is a bit hysterical because he's
very much wounded and he has that, um, you know, like, ah, little
you know, you know, and whereas now he's just very calm and
measured and just said, you know, you've done something awful.
Think about it because, yeah.
And it's just like he just draws that line and says that's it
buddy. you've you had your chance.
And, yeah, um, but he's, he doesn't make it, he doesn't.
I imagine tenant playing that.
Oh, it would be all kind of...
Yeah. behind him.
Yeah, giant teeth. slow motion.
Did they beg for mercy?
Tell me.
In a sort of metatextual way.
I think the other reason Solomon has to die, and I'm going to be
on record as saying it's absolutely brilliant, and I remember in
2012 sitting there going, ooh, yeah.
And I'm like, no, I like this.
In a metatextual kind of way, everyone else in the story is heroic
and a bit funny.
Even the robots are kind of comedy robots, and they don't actually
want to hurt you at all, and when they don't succeed in hurting
you, it's just, oh, we definitely used to be faster.
You know, and they're really funny.
Whereas Solomon is almost a new adventures kind of villain.
And it's almost like the script is going, well, no, you don't
belong in the Doctor Who universe.
Bugger off.
We're having fun with dinosaurs. you.
Excuse me.
And yeah, he just doesn't fit in that way.
And in a way, it's good that he doesn't fit because the scene
where he's asking the doctor to treat him.
And the doctor, you know, kind of charmingly says, well, you know
yes, I'll happily treat you like, how about you tell me about what
you're doing on this ship and Solomon's response is immediately
shoot one of them.
Yeah, injure the older one or something like that.
It's really.
Yeah, and it underlines, okay, this is not your, this is not a fun
Doctor Who villain.
Like, I would say he's possibly more ruthless in execution than
Madame Cavarian who is at least having fun with what she's doing.
Yeah.
You know?
But it's such a brilliant performance from David Bradley.
And it's sort of amazing that this is his kneebrock's moment where
Stephen Moffatt goes, hey, you'd be good as William Hartnell.
He would definitely shoot people in the face.
At least hit them over the back of the head with a rock.
Apparently he's just the nicest, sweetest, cuddliest guy in real
life, but he just plays this.
He's made a, you know, a career out of playing repulsive
characters. like he's just always, always, even the 1st doctor.
I shouldn't say that.
It's almost a Harry Potter reunion.
Yeah.
I think the one problem.
And again, it's a typically chibnal thing is having our
acquisitive, money hungry person given a Jewish name.
Oh, I didn't pick up on that.
It might have been.
Yeah, I think it might have been better to go for a space name.
I think it is a bit unfortunate.
Yeah, I was so good at that. space name.
He is a cheap little space name.
Now, I have heard that objection to this episode before.
And something that struck me was the director is Saul Metzky.
Yeah, yeah.
And so not only is he of Jewish heritage, but his father, Izzy
Metzstein, was in Berlin in 1938 and he and his 4 siblings, their
mother got them out of the country, sent them to England and
joined them and they settled in Scotland and that's where Saul was
sort of brought up as well.
And so I have to think that if that consideration was there by the
production team, You do at least have a Jewish director.
Yeah, someone's voice was heard about it and clearly he was okay
with it.
That doesn't mean necessarily that it's okay, but certainly, you
know, like it's something on which people might differ.
I think.
Or possibly it's because of the connotations of the name Solomon.
Yeah.
See, you see, I heard the name Solomon and just thought we're
juxtaposing with the traditional wisdom of the character and
taking it to a ridiculous extreme of what if he actually meant
cutting the baby in half and just saw it as a possession.
We actually talked in last week's episode a little bit about how
the doctor disappears himself from the database at the very end
and noticed that he's not there in Solomon's database.
So Solomon has a database because of course he does that lists
everything in the whole world and how much it costs, but it
doesn't include the doctor somehow.
I also like the feint that you kind of led to, oh, I don't know
where you found it.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
You think he's going to say...
Yeah, I thought it was the target.
Dehumanising her. referring to her as a thing.
It yeah.
And and then it turns out it's Nefertiti and it's like, oh, this
guy is real piece of work.
I mean, we already know by that point that he's cremated genocide
I think.
Yeah, yeah, we know he's spaced to the soilureans.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, speaking of solo ins, it just popped into my head.
Amy says, scan for homo reptilia.
That is so great.
Yeah.
She has to be in the doctor.
New wrong name every time I appear.
Yeah, we do know that straight up Solomon's Solomon's a nasty
piece.
And I agree with you, James.
I totally thought he was after the Tartars.
You know, that kind of makes sense.
And it makes you wonder what else Oswin deleted last week.
Yeah, yeah.
Because the Daleks don't react to the TARDIS last week either.
Like, they don't say, oh, that's a, you know, even if they've
forgotten the doctor, they probably remember the time war, maybe.
But that's how Lurian we see on the screen in line with the last
time Chibnall wrote them.
So he had Restack, who was a tribute to Terence Dix.
Yes.
We had Malocare, who was Malcolm Malcolm Hulk.
This solar in name, never mentioned dialogue or written, but in
the script, he's Blatell.
He's Barry Letts..
But yes, he is played by Richard Hope, who played Malakare.
And that was in the script.
Oh, because he's like part of the same gene thing or whatever.
Yeah, they have. thought he was really good.
I should work out our Sillyrian names.
Like we should...
We'll get back to you.
Yeah.
So like I was kind of delighted the Silurians were involved
because when you have the sort of dinosaurs on a spaceship
premise.
I do think that we were kind of immediately thinking, what the
hell is this going to be?
And of course, giving the Silurians the ability to travel into
interstellar space, like, okay, well, whatever, who cares?
Like they certainly didn't have that in the original conception
but why not?
Some of them hibernate underground and some of them head off into
space.
And so you get those really nice elements of the design, like all
of the vegetation and stuff everywhere.
And the spaceship itself looks absolutely incredible, doesn't it?
And so does David Bradley spaceship.
Like those effects look just amazing.
I love the fact that even in a prehistoric era, the Salurians were
environmentalists, they used wave technology.
Yeah, spaceship, they have a giant ocean and beach which generates
the energy for their spaceship.
That's a really fun, cool concept.
There's a bit forest in the middle.
Yeah, in the middle of the Byzantium.
Yeah, yeah.
And it gives us a chance to go back to that location again.
There's there's roses...
Is there another beach in Wales?
There's got to be more than one beach in your house.
I mean, it's a very beautiful beach, but yeah, it's stunning.
It's a stunning beach, but every time you go there, you're like
yeah, bad one, mate.
Around this time this episode went out, actually.
I was staying with my friends, Ed and Die, because I was sort of
doing a farewell tour before I left the UK.
And they took me to that beach.
It's not that far from Cardiff.
I think it was less than an hour's drive.
Could be longer.
My geography is terrible.
But they did take a photo of me at the top of the cliffs.
I just sort of got close and looked down.
And then Ed's very good with Photoshop and he Photoshopped a
drashing.
I've seen that photo, I think.
Well, in fact, that scene is very carnival monsters, isn't it?
Because they're in this environment inside a big machine and they
run into a cave to escape the monsters that are attacking them.
Like it does have a real proper sort of kind of monsters vibe, I
think.
And I will say something, and this is something very silly.
I noticed, like when they run into the cave, there's a close-up of
Brian and there's a join line in the rock behind him, a very
vertical join line.
But I went, no, hold on.
This is allowed to be fake.
It is fake.
This is fine.
Did you wonder why, because I was sort of thinking, surely Amy and
Rory have seen Jurassic Park.
And, you know, they've seen where they, with all the velociraptors
is it velociraptors?
Yeah.
Like these little...
Yeah, they were bloody scary in Jurassic Park.
I was terrified.
I went to see that with friends of the podcast, Pete McTie and
Paul Masters when it came out.
And we were all really, really scared.
And those were nasty.
So if you had actually seen Jurassic Park, and then you came
across and you were like, you'd be like, whoa, you'd be really
like, this isn't just a bit of fun, like with a gun.
Yeah, just shoot a dinosaur, shoot a dinosaur.
You'd be like, oh, I don't, I'm out of here.
Yeah, these are nasty little.
It's all the same CG models that they use in primeval.
Oh, okay.
How come?
Because primeval's ITV.
Yeah, it's the mill.
Ah, the mill did the...
They own the they own the CG model.
Ah, I mean, it's a mixture of puppetry and CG models, isn't it?
Well, apparently the only practical dinosaur was a large section
of Tricey. jump on.
But isn't the, isn't the, no, there is a practical puppet, which
is the sleepy baby T-Rex, which they walk over. definitely a
puppet.
I did think that was a prop, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, the puppetry is really great.
Often the often that dinosaur, you know, when they're riding it
and stuff, it is CG and then they've got the puppet so that it can
kind of leak Brian's face.
It's so crazy.
It's so good.
His face is covered in swarf eager and he's kind of going, I want
to go home.
It's tremendous.
It's actually, um, that, so yes, they're writing a puppet. but
most of those scenes are then see, like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
CG mapped onto the...
Yeah.
For the motion shots to cover that it's more just that you want
the reference material, so you can get everything exactly right.
I could tell you too that as somebody who rides horses, there's no
way that you would be able to sit on the back of that triceratops
without falling off.
I love Matt going, how do you start a triceratops?
And then him looking for the brakes later on.
So good.
Matt Smith does actually say in confidential.
Yeah, this is very, very different and bumpier than riding a
whore.
Even just like the prop on wheels.
I mean, that thing is so much fun.
And, you know, we have a fantastic dinosaur story already in
Doctor Who.
But, you know, the puppets are absolutely lamentably terrible.
If only they could get the CG models from this and use them to do
the special edition of Invasion of the Dinosaurs for this series.
Oh, sorry.
Yeah, 11 Blu-ray.
Yeah.
Get on it, Pete McKay.
But look, before he passed away for the Time Warrior DVD, which
had new effects.
Barry let's turn to the animator after seeing the new effects and
said, so about invasion of the dinosaur.
Barry wants it to happen.
I think it should happen.
It should happen.
I mean, I just think they're so fun and so effective.
They're incredibly good.
And, you know, there are moments where you kind of think...
Well, I mean, they look like special effects and of course they
do.
But they're hero special effects.
They're ones that you're supposed to look at and go, this is an
amazing effect and they really work.
So let's see, what do we have?
We have Angleosaurs at the beginning.
Baby T-Rex.
A whole gaggle of velociraptors.
Yep.
Pterodactyls.
And triceratops. and triceratops.
Yeah, you know, 5 kinds of dinosaurs.
And Chris Chibnall, Caro Skinner went into the mill and had a
discussion and an interview about, okay, what kind of dinosaurs
can we actually have?
And that then worked its way into the script.
Fiona, would you like to describe to the listener what your whole
card?
Is this Tri-C?
It's Tracy.
It's a, um, it's one of my dog's toys, but it's a little, it's
it's nearly as cute as Tricey, the dinosaurs on a spaceship
Tricey.
It's kind of a miniature version.
A miniature version with kind of...
I think so, yeah, in the show notes, I think.
But yeah, Tracy, unfortunately, has an injury.
Not a laser gun to the head, but a chewed horn.
One of his 3 horns has been... called Solomon by any other.
No, no, Albert.
One thing I'd like to mention before we go is it's been 10 months
in universe since Asylum of the Daleks, which in itself has to be
a few months after Wedding of River Song, and between those, you've
got the doctor, the widow, and the wardrobe, where they hadn't
seen him for 2 years.
Yeah.
So if we assume the Wedding of River Song is late 2011.
So then Christmas 2013 is Dr. Widow on the wardrobe, that scene.
We are approaching Christmas 2014 in this episode, at least, if
not early 2015.
So Amy and Rory have lived through cybermen rising from the graves
while a strange Scottish woman floats over the parasol.
You know, I really, really like this.
And we said last week, and again, in this episode, we've talked
about how this is supposed to be like a series of movies, but it
does have an arc, and the arc is that Amy and Rory might not need
the doctor so much anymore.
And it's beautifully done in Power of 3 where Amy actually does do
the maths, doesn't she?
And or Rory, one of them does the maths and says, you know, I
think we're probably 5 years older than we should be or something
like that, you know.
But the distances between their meetings with the doctor are being
spaced out.
And I think the doctor's aware of it because there is that
absolutely stunningly beautiful scene where Brian is sat with his
legs dangling out of the TARDIS door, looking down on earth
drinking tea from a thermos and having a sandwich.
And that's beautiful because we've been told that all that Brian
does is go to the shops and plays golf.
He doesn't like travelling.
And then, yeah, you have to hang a lantern on that with the, let's
have lots of photos of him and postcards.
Oh, but that's a beautiful ending.
We'll get to that in a second.
But the point I wanted to make here. is that Amy and Rory are
looking out onto earth and smiling and the doctor notices it and
is crestfallen.
Like he's starting to realise that they're growing.
Yeah.
They're growing out of him.
Yeah.
And there's a change made to the original script to emphasise
that.
So the way Chibnall writes it is, 1st of all, Brian's there, and
then Amy and Rory come and sit with him in the doorway, and then
the doctor brings the sandwiches in the thermos.
And Stephen Moffatt kind of said, well, no, the arc we're going
for is this.
So can we change it to actually the doctors not quite a part of
this?
And it's like, yeah, great.
And it's just interesting how 2 writers have the same idea, but
just by changing who's responsible for the sandwiches and the
coffee and the actor's facial expressions changes the whole
meaning of the scene.
Yeah, it's a really, really good scene, I think.
It's a really pretty good scene.
I think that scene also has a great emotional resonance for Brian
and for Amy and Rory, not just for the doctor realising that he's
losing them and that they're growing out of him.
Um, Brian, you know, is established in this episode and power of 3
and he was going to return at the end of uh, angels take
Manhattan.
And it shows how much that Rory and Amy love him.
Yeah, and that if they had made that the film that tiny little
scene at the end with him getting the letter from them from the
past, that would have had a huge emotional payoff for the
character, you've grown, you've grown to love in just a few
episodes.
Yeah.
Yeah, I really love that ending scene. it's just beautiful And I
think on the other side, Amy is worried that the doctor is losing
interest in her and she actually asks whether he's travelling with
Riddell and Nefertiti, the way that he travels with her and Rory.
And the doctor says, no, you know, you're the ponds, you're kind
of special, and these are just sort of people that I'm, you know
travelling around with a bit, but you're important.
And, and Brian gets to be an honorary pond because it's his, yeah
his, um, it's his insight that Rory and him constitute that gene
thingy you were just talking about.
And so he's the one who actually saves the day and turns the
spaceship around.
And so he gets to be another pond.
And it's like Pond is this kind of honorific that the doctor, the
reason that it's Rory Pond is that Rory is as important as Amy and
now Brian is important.
And so he isn't letting go of her, but there is something where
they're kind of pulling apart.
Yeah, that I love the scene with the just the 2 of them.
Um, just the, the doctor and Amy, that little scene where he, she
just says, oh, I just feel like you're weaning us off you.
And um, and yeah, he does a little kiss on the forehead.
And I think there's, the relationship in that is, is just
gorgeous.
And I love the fact that it's kind of that affectionate
relationship where he obviously like adores her, but it's not at
all sexualised.
Whereas with, when you get Clara, it becomes a bit more kind of
sexualised and a little bit, uh, bit dodgy.
But with this, it's just kind of like, oh, you know, I just adore
this woman and she adores me, but, um, yeah.
And did you notice in the beginning, like, it's also a lovely
episode for Amy and Rory's relationship.
They're actually wearing matching clothes.
If you go back in the beginning.
Yeah, she's got her horizontal stripes.
He's actually the shirt underneath is horizontal stripes.
So they're actually wearing matching clothes and they really are
like working together beautifully after that conflict in the
previous episode where, you know, they're on the verge of
divorcing and they're just this beautiful little unit and a family
even, you know, with Brian in as well.
Like it's, uh, I just love them all and I love the way too that
they've subtly with her makeup made her just look that bit more
grown up as well, just subtle changes.
Because in viewing time, it's actually not that long, but in story
like you said, in story arc, it is a very long time.
They have done a really good way of making her look more like a
grown up because she's very, very young in the, in the 1st few
episodes.
Apart from when she's Amelia Pond and played by Caitlin, of course
when she's definitely younger.
I really think that that's the best thing about this year's Doctor
Who episodes. is the way that Amy and Rory's relationship settles
down to be something that is just domestic, but it's a
relationship that's been through a lot and the 2 of them
absolutely have grown together.
And it's the reason I think that maybe for me, town called Mercy
is very, very good indeed, but I am a massive fan of the power of
3 because we just get so much of that in that episode.
The other thing I think the needs to be said from that, the scene
with the doctor and Amy is the bit where she says like, oh, you'll
be the deaf of me.
No, he'll be you'll be the deaf of me or said all vice.
And then he's, the doctor's face when she's, um, he thinks about
the fact that Amy could die.
Um, yeah.
And of course, it's all that foreshadowing.
But that's what I love about Matt Stock.
Do I get endlessly in arguments of Joe Ford because he thinks Matt
is rubbish and can't act?
And I'm like, are you a psychopath?
Like, this is just...
But yeah, just like, how...
But he's one of those actors where he can say so much without
uttering a word, like it's all on his face and just those subtle.
He can be completely goofy and hands everywhere one minute and
then very still and reflective and deadly serious and next and
that's why he is my favourite doctor.
Love him.
Yeah.
Yeah, I got god complex vibes from that moment where he's
remembering that the reason that he originally left her behind was
because he didn't want to be the death of her and like just the
how his face falls as if maybe he's falling back into bad habits
or something.
It's very good.
Well,ly listener, that's all we have time for this week.
We'll be back next week for some moral quandaries and gunslinging
in a town called Mercy.
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts
and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook
at FTE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, Flightthrough
Entirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts
Bondfinger, Jody InterTara, Maximum Power, and Untitled Star Trek
project.
Until next time, remember, it's never a good idea to keep
vegetable massa in your pants.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
Courgettes, good night.
Ta-ta.
Good night.
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley
Brendan Jones, James Selwood, and Fiona Tomney.
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.
This episode, his kneebrox moment was recorded on the 13th of
March 2022 and released on the 17th of April.
Anyone can wish for a version of the invasion of the dinosaurs
with updated CGI dinosaur effects, but only FDE can campaign for a
version of dinosaurs on a spaceship with the CGI dinosaurs
replaced by rod and wire puppets created by Rodney Fuller.
Join our campaign on Twitter at hashtag MakeTriceyReal.
Maybe kind of appropriate to mention that Mass Myth really plants
one on Arthur Darwin.
I know this episode.
But then he slaps his face.
Like it's like, oh, you did a good thing.
Kiss.
Oh, you idiot, it didn't work.
And like it's one of those things where it's that slapping his
face thing has got to be just mad.
Like, there's no way that that's not business matters, Vincent.
So good.
Chris Chibnell's best script.
I think Power of 3, E, maybe, Power of 3, although this is very
good.
This is up there.
Yeah, no, I agree, I agree.
It's worrying that his 2 best scripts are in this season.
Yeah, well, what's his best script for the, what's his best script
for the 13th doctor, do you think?
Well, do you do you count the co-written script?
Or do you count his soul?
You are like fugitive of the jury?
because that's the thing.
I would say fugitive, but if we're doing solo, I would say War of
the Centaurans.
Yeah, I would probably say War of the Sautarans too.
It is pretty damn great.
Yeah.
But I was also going to say this is completely facetious, but
between my 1st viewing of this episode and this current viewing
I've seen Matt Smith in Maplethorpe.
Oh, that, that's out.
I don't...
It's probably prosthetic G. To be honest, I think the sexual
content in it is tamer than the American queer as folk.
Right, okay.
But he's still bloody excellent in it.
Wow, he's such a great actor.
And like the 1st shot is over his shoulder and Rod didn't tell me
what we were watching.
First shot is over his shoulder.
I'm like, I know that chin.
Like, literally, I went, I know that chick.
Where's that chin going?
Chinny.
Is it does John Hurt call him chinny?
Chinny and sand shoes?
Yeah, chinny and sand shoes.
Yeah.
Oh, dear.
John Smith.
Did I say John Smith or John?
No, you said John Herbert.
I've got a Matt Smith chip.
No, you don't.
I've got a chin.
Cyra has it, Matt Smith's chin.
Yes.
Yeah, in discovering.
Oh, that was really fun.
Thank you for that.
Thank you for being on that.
I think there was a little bit of latency between...
Yeah, like I think you were hearing us again after we...
Yeah, but I can fix that. yeah fix it and post it.
I am very skilled.