WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:16:22

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Hello, Delissa, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast that really knows where its trowel is.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm James.

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I'm Fiona.

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Well, we've rounded up a gang for some reason, and we're off to investigate a giant spaceship hurtling towards planet Earth, as usual.

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It's all fun and games until David Bradley murders a Triceratops in dinosaurs on a spaceship.

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I'm going to nail my colours to the mask straight away and say, I really like this episode.

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Am I wrong?

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Yes.

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Am I a bad person?

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Yes.

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No, I quite enjoyed this one as well.

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I enjoyed it at the time and have enjoyed it on each viewing since coming to it with a slightly more critical eye this time, I have questions, but we'll get into those.

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Okay.

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Are they about Brian's balls?

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Oddly no.

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So we start, I think, in a very odd way, which is the getting the gang together, like a heist movie or something.

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We're doing that.

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How do we think that works as an idea?

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Yeah, it was a little bit strange.

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I'd actually, because I only rewatched it this morning and I'd had actually forgotten that bit about how they got everybody together.

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No, I think it was okay, but it was a bit kind of...

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The bit where they get the ponds is beautiful.

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I think that's really, really great.

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And I also like the fact that my 1st impressions with Queen Nefatiti and Matt.

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She's got him up against the TARDIS kind of, you know, being very, very forward and I like the way he's, he's not doing the, oh, I'm sort of sexy kind of the doctor back.

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He's just kind of like, oh, ha, ha, doing the whole sort of, oh, get me out of here kind of thing.

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Yeah, which I, which I think is great.

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I think it would be a bit if he kind of got all sexy back and went, hey, you know, hot woman, this is great.

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I'm, I, sexy.

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I think that would be a bit, but because he's playing the whole, never seen a girl before kind of line.

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This is a bit awkward.

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I think that works really well.

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It's quite funny.

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I think Russell's doctor is sexually confident, surprisingly, and Moffatt's isn't.

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And I think that, you know, that's basically it, isn't it?

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Which is surprising.

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Yeah, you would expect it to be the other way around.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, that's right.

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But I mean, if you think about Eccleston, perhaps the only time that we really talk about sex with Eccleston is in the 2 episodes that Moffatt writes, and he's a bit awkward about sex in those.

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I mean, I'd also say Jabe.

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Yeah, they're totally cross-pollinated.

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Oh, no, he's super confident with Jane.

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That was my 1st impression when you said that comment was, Jabe.

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Yeah he's very confident in there.

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Yeah, he's definitely a man who has experience.

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And obviously, tenants doctor is insufferably sexually confident.

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There is the, you know, still got it, sort of thing that he always has, that sort of feeling.

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And Matt always reacts like this to being hit on, which I think is delightful.

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Yeah, I love it. means that it's kind of okay.

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I will also say for his doctor so far, kisses have generally been bad news.

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So like Amy kisses him and he immediately knows that he's almost broken up a wedding.

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Yeah.

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River kisses him and it's like 1st time for everything and a last.

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River kisses him again because he's on the edge of death.

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Well, River kisses him again and kills him and then kisses him again and brings him back to live.

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And then kisses him again and the universe reboots again.

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He's probably expecting the whole pyramid to come down on top of that.

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Yeah, that's fair enough.

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Euphemism and a half.

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Yeah.

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And then we get the very, very, very beautiful Rupert Graves as Riddell, and he's really fun as well.

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Yeah, yeah.

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There's something...

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Because all of that's played for kind of screwball comedy.

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It does have a very moffity feel to it.

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It's a little bit like getting the gang together, you know, a demon's run.

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It's kind of a thing that we've sort of done before, but it's absolutely played for laughs.

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And I think it does an important job of establishing that the doctor has relationships and friendships with other people, which is important thematically, I think, here.

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Yeah, I really love that once they've gotten to the Indian space agency, which I remember in 2012 thinking, of course, that's a brilliant idea.

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Because you think it's the international space agency because it's the ISA, right?

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Yeah.

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And incidentally, I think the main the main prerequisite.

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Well, the secondary prerequisite for working at the Indian Space Agency, the main prerequisite is, of course, that you know about space stuff.

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The secondary prerequisite seems to be that you have to be really hot.

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Yeah.

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All the men and women in the Indian space agency are really noticeably hot and, you know, it...

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Sorry, distracted.

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But the thing I love in that scene is the doctor and Nefertiti have been travelling for a while together because he calls her nephew and she knows about screens and what have you.

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And it's actually a lovely bit of shorthand from a writer who sometimes overwrites character explanations.

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And so I thought that was absolutely lovely.

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I think Indian Space Agency, in retrospect, turns out to be classic Chibnol, doesn't it?

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He's showrunner when we have our 1st story set outside Europe since what, the Aztecs or something?

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So, so, so I think the Indian Space Agency is very cheap, Milly, and it is really good because it gives us the chance to have some representation, and we get the gag where we think initially ISA is International Space Agency, it turns out to be Indian.

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And they're really great.

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There's that wonderful line, isn't it?

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Because he brings Nefatiti to the ISA and the woman there says we're going to fire missiles at the ship.

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And he says, oh, I really liked you until you said the word in his eyes.

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She's fabulously talked to her.

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Chicken, I think, can do comedy and we will see that later this season, won't we?

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Well, there's some great comedy moments throughout this episode.

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Yeah, I think so too.

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In fact, primarily, I think what it does is just be a hilarious romp with dinosaurs.

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It absolutely does what it says on the tin.

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So I just think it's terrifically enjoyable.

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So you did get the title wrong at the beginning of the episodes.

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It's dinosaurs.

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On a space?

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Yeah, yeah.

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That's what we say leading into the credits.

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I noticed there was a comment there in the subtitles when I was watching it before.

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Should have been an ellipse.

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I feel like that's one of times where, you know, you can accuse Chris Chipnall of overwriting, but this is one of those occasions where no one else would have done anything different.

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No, you had to do that.

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That's happening.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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But doesn't Matt just perfectly encapsulate exactly what's going in your inside your brain when you read that title for the 1st time and you just have that childish reaction going dinosaurs on a spaceship and he just like...

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He's just articulating exactly what all of us are thinking because, I mean, every who didn't love dinosaurs when you were a kid and you still do love dinosaurs.

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I mean, yeah, you couldn't get much nicer than that dinosaurs and a spaceship.

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And it reminded me a little bit of his bit in the 1st episode back in that season where the last season where he puts the helmet on with the space helmet and he's like, look at this cool stuff.

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The Impossible Astronaut.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, he finds that with a NASA gear and puts it on and he's like, oh, this is so cool.

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Like just geeking out and you're like, yeah, I'd do the same thing if I was there.

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Like, that's what you'd want to do is like put try it on and see what it looks like.

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Yeah, have fun.

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Well, I think it's one of the best things about Matt is how much he enjoys himself, like how much he loves his staff.

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I did that at the Kennedy Space Museum.

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Oh, did he?

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You put the thing on?

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Did Karen Gillen shoot you in the head?

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And you said thank you.

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You know, this is a great shot.

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Now, this is something I've read, and I'm not sure if this was a stage direction or if this was dialogue that was cut out of the script, but apparently, according to the script, Brian, when he sees the dinosaurs, believes that Rory and Amy have drugged him and taken him to Alton Towers, which is a theme park in the UK and that he was going to start wittering on about, you had to drug me and bring me here because I hated it so much the 1st time and I got sick on the road.

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Okay, I'm running.

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He is like absolutely incredible.

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So we have actual Mark Williams from Red Dwarf, from Red Dwarf.

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Harry Potter?

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Yep, yeah. about that anymore.

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Father Brown.

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Yeah, yes, yes.

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Yes. 10 seasons.

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He's magnificent.

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He's so great and he's so much your dad as well.

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I know.

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He was great hosting the Doctor Who symphonic spectacular.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, that's right.

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He did that with...

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Alex King.

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That's right.

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Sydney yeah.

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Yeah, no, I mean, he is just so tremendous.

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And so the doctor materialises around him, which I just think is terrific.

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And Rory's reaction, like, why can't you phone ahead like a normal person?

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Yeah, it's like the doctor picks up Riddell and it's nice enough to park the Titus a safe distance away and come along and sit down and, hey, how you doing?

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With Amy and Royal.

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They'll want to come.

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What can they be doing that's more important?

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Of course, Matt, doesn't know you.

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The doctor doesn't notice that he's picked him up until afterwards.

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And then and then he goes, oh, you thought I was stupid.

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You thought I wouldn't notice, which is precisely what he did.

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But he knew his name.

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He caught him Brian.

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Did you notice that?

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He called him Brian.

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Not Rory's dad.

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He says Brian.

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Yeah.

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I think that here's the thing that we obviously don't care about, which is that we didn't see Rory's dad at the wedding and Rory's dad doesn't know who the doctor is despite his spectacular appearance at the wedding.

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And I think at this point it's just like, ah, who cares?

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You know, we had to explain...

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We had to explain why Bernard Cribbins wasn't in the runaway bride.

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And we sort of did that, but what did it had Spanish flu or something?

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Yeah, yeah, something stupid.

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And so now we're just not even bothering with that at this point.

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No, we don't care because we've got Mark Williams and his wife.

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Well, exactly.

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What if they said, oh, well, we can't have Rory's dad in that because it would introduce a continuity error.

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So call Mark Williams up and tell him he's not needed.

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I kind of wish you'd been playing this Olaf Peterson.

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Yeah, not a pocket full of golf balls, a pocket full of lager cans.

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I developed a bit of a theory watching this and I was just kind of watching it go.

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And because Brian narrates what he's going through all the time, I'm riding a dinosaur.

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I'm flying a spaceship.

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I can say...

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And I kind of went, well, you know, that's something Chris Chibnell does.

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He often has characters saying what they're doing in disbelief.

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But then I thought, hold on, is he Chris Chibnall?

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And then reading a bit like Christian.

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Reading an interview, Chris Chipnell says, I'm afraid that I am Brian, or at least that's what I will turn into, and that's where the character came from.

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It's like, yeah, exactly.

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There's that moment at the very end where Rory is fixing the light fitting and he also comes to the conclusion that it's the fitting another bulb and then like, 0 my god, I'm turning into Brian. you know I think it's just perfect. he'll come up later in the season.

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And perhaps if anything, be even more magnificent, I think.

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And I just think the bit where he's injured and Rory is treating him is one of the emotional highlights of this 1st half of the season.

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And it's a really emotional 1st half of the season with Amy and Rory's relationship, but it's just really brilliantly underplayed.

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And there's been this subtle thing throughout of Brian's sort of dissing Rory because he can't repair a light fitting.

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He doesn't carry a trowel, you know, put it on your Christmas list.

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But here there's just that quiet moment of respect of, oh, okay, no, you're good at other things, which I think for children watching at home is probably a very sweet moment if they're into something, say, like Doctor Who, that their parents might not be.

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But also like something which is misogynistically typically considered to be a female industry.

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Yeah, yeah. has at times in the scriptwriting of this show been used to emasculate him.

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Yeah.

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As a joke.

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Yep.

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And then played against.

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That's actually a really powerful message to say to kids.

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Like especially young, young boys, you can do this job.

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It doesn't make you less for man.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I think that's good.

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That's a really good point.

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Yeah.

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There's something about adult children as well. that our parents don't necessarily understand what it is that we're good at and don't get the opportunity to see us doing that.

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And so I found that quite affecting as well.

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You know, and it, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Uh, same.

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I related chat really heavily because um, for starters, like, you know how, like, I'm into horses and riding and all that, like, my parents have virtually never, ever watched me ride kind of thing, like, they've just, and even when they come, the rare occasions where they come and stay with me, like, I go and ride and they never come and watch sort of thing, and I kind of, part of me wishes they take an interest, and then for work a couple of times a year, I get to do PowerPoint presentations of my research in front of people, and I had to drag my son along recently kicking and screaming and I

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literally got quite upset.

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I said, can't you, for, you know, just one time a year, be proud of what I do?

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Like, you know, like just, I want you to come and like just go, mom is cool, you know, because I...

217
00:15:50.639 --> 00:16:00.480
Yeah, and I but it was really like for me, it was a really big deal for him to actually be in the audience and for me to kind of show my stuff and go, hey, this is what I'm good at, baby.

218
00:16:00.539 --> 00:16:02.279
Like, yeah.

219
00:16:02.340 --> 00:16:04.620
So it is a big, it is a big thing.

220
00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:16.559
Yeah, it's a very Doctor Who thing, I think, to have that family relationship moment being caused by like a big stupid robot on a giant spaceship and stuff.

221
00:16:16.620 --> 00:16:19.259
You know, the setting is absurd.

222
00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:24.299
But there's a little moment of kind of real human connection there, which I think is terrifically good.

223
00:16:24.659 --> 00:16:26.159
Love it.

224
00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:50.879
I'd like to say something about Riddell, because the 1st time watching this series, Like this series was publicised as we're doing a feature film every week, and you sort of get swept up with that.

225
00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:57.179
But this time watching it, I'm like, why is the doctor such good friends with a big game hunter?

226
00:16:57.299 --> 00:16:57.899
Yeah.

227
00:16:58.019 --> 00:17:01.559
And I thought that's really weird. that has been brought up.

228
00:17:01.620 --> 00:17:04.259
Yeah, and Amy refers to that in the dialogue too.

229
00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:06.000
Doesn't she?

230
00:17:06.059 --> 00:17:20.460
Because she says like, you know, when he's being a bit misogynist and sort of going, like, I don't take orders from women and all that and she said, well, you know, you're just some twat, who, who shoots to poor defenceless animals, you know, why would I respect you kind of thing?

231
00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:21.000
Yeah.

232
00:17:21.059 --> 00:17:23.759
So she totally stands up to him.

233
00:17:23.819 --> 00:17:31.259
Yeah, well, when when he says, I don't take orders from women, I think Nefertiti responds by saying, well, learn.

234
00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:33.119
You know, like...

235
00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:46.740
But notice that by the end of it, he and Nefertiti are together and they're both using the tranquilliser stun guns on the animals by the end.

236
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:49.619
So he learns not to be a big gamer.

237
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:50.640
And that was his idea too.

238
00:17:50.700 --> 00:17:52.140
That's the thing, isn't it?

239
00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:54.960
The doctor makes people better.

240
00:17:55.140 --> 00:17:55.500
Yeah.

241
00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:56.160
Yeah.

242
00:17:56.220 --> 00:18:03.000
It's the getting a character who is flawed and making them become a better person.

243
00:18:03.059 --> 00:18:03.599
Yeah.

244
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:06.480
But not totally changing who he is.

245
00:18:06.539 --> 00:18:08.579
So he's still, you know, he's still hunting.

246
00:18:09.180 --> 00:18:17.460
What I found interesting when I read up on his character was that much like Nefetiti, this character was originally going to be a real historical figure.

247
00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:18.539
Ah okay.

248
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:25.380
And he was going to be Charles Buffalo Jones, who was Buffalo.

249
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:26.220
A buffalo.

250
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:29.039
In America, in the 1800s.

251
00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:30.779
In the Wild West.

252
00:18:30.779 --> 00:18:31.680
In the Wild West.

253
00:18:31.740 --> 00:18:32.339
Yes.

254
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:51.539
And he initially started out hunting Buffalo, but then realised what wonderful creatures they were and worked on both preserving and conserving them and the possibility of crossbreeding them with cattle to make a hardier cow, which basically didn't work.

255
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:56.819
The offspring couldn't reproduce, and they were just as wilful as the buffalo with no domestic qualities.

256
00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:58.619
Oh, so like mules?

257
00:18:58.680 --> 00:18:59.579
Yeah, exactly.

258
00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:00.240
Yeah.

259
00:19:00.299 --> 00:19:14.579
And the reason that was scuppered was this was being filmed with a town called Mercy and would have gone out back to back and Moffatt said, I'm sorry, Chris, we can't have to, we can't have 2 Wild West characters in a row.

260
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:24.660
Yeah, so in choosing Redell and choosing for him to come from 1902, Chibnell's view was, let's take him from the end of that part of the empire.

261
00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:26.039
So he's on the way out anyway.

262
00:19:26.099 --> 00:19:27.420
So he has to change.

263
00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:30.599
And again, it's not overwritten for once.

264
00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:31.440
No.

265
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:31.740
Yeah.

266
00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:35.339
No, I mean, and he's mostly played for comedy.

267
00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:45.299
Like he is, you know, charming and pretty, but absolutely inappropriate all the time and he's constantly being lectured by both Nefertiti and Amy.

268
00:19:45.299 --> 00:19:48.539
And, you know, it turns out okay in the end.

269
00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:50.099
I think it's, I think it's all right.

270
00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:58.740
I have heard people object to him and particularly to him ending up with their fatigue when he's been so kind of relentlessly awful all the way through.

271
00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:05.940
But I think he does learn. and I think he does get better and it's Rupert Graves and he's charming as hell.

272
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:09.299
I almost didn't recognise him, not an EM Forster.

273
00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:12.660
Well, it's Freddie.

274
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:14.220
He'll be in Sherlock, yeah.

275
00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:15.480
Yeah, he is super pretty.

276
00:20:15.539 --> 00:20:22.440
Freddie in A Room with a View, Helena Bottom Carter's Little Brother, and he's... was so attractive.

277
00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:23.700
Oh, he's so gorgeous.

278
00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:25.200
That's where I 1st...

279
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:26.279
Floppy hair.

280
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:28.859
Yeah, he was...

281
00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:31.920
Yeah, very loveable.

282
00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:33.539
Very loveable.

283
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:34.259
Yeah.

284
00:20:34.259 --> 00:20:44.880
I didn't have a problem with him ending up with Queen Nefertiti at all because I think because she was, she's obviously very sexually confident and he is as well.

285
00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:58.799
And so it wasn't like, you know, he was either seducing her or kind of throwing himself on her, like we had the other bit where it is, sexual harassment with, um, David Bradley's character who's just repulsive.

286
00:20:58.859 --> 00:21:10.440
Yeah, Solomon, the, um, where it is basically, like, there's all this stuff about, you know, rape and and definitely, you know, sexual assault that's really quite dark and horrible.

287
00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:15.539
And Matt, at one stage, you can see on his face, he's just repulsed by this character.

288
00:21:15.539 --> 00:21:22.859
Like, but he, he's got that thing where he just wants to just kill this guy, but he can't at that stage.

289
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:23.940
He can't do anything about it.

290
00:21:24.059 --> 00:21:30.059
Um, but she's, Yeah, she's obviously confident in herself.

291
00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:34.200
So for her ending up with redoubt at the end, it's like a partnership.

292
00:21:34.259 --> 00:21:34.920
They like equals.

293
00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:39.359
I don't have an issue with that at all because it's something that she's chosen to.

294
00:21:39.420 --> 00:21:47.700
Whereas when Solomon takes her. very much against her will, but she's brave enough to make that sacrifice because she feels that it will save the others.

295
00:21:47.819 --> 00:21:50.400
So, very powerful woman.

296
00:21:50.460 --> 00:21:52.859
And and then free herself as well.

297
00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:53.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

298
00:21:53.819 --> 00:21:56.220
She's the one that she attacks him with the crutch.

299
00:21:56.339 --> 00:21:57.000
Yeah.

300
00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:57.420
Yeah.

301
00:21:57.480 --> 00:21:59.039
It's not the doctor rescuing her.

302
00:21:59.099 --> 00:22:00.359
No, no.

303
00:22:00.420 --> 00:22:03.539
That rescue underwent many changes.

304
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:04.319
Right.

305
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:15.599
So initially, uh, the doctor was going to sort of push Neffi out, lock the door and he was going to be, I'm going to stay on the ship with Solomon because, you know, that's the thing to do.

306
00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:25.380
Then there was a version where Nefi pushed the doctor out and said, I will make sure the missiles hit us because, of course, Nefiti kind of disappears from history in real history.

307
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:26.160
Okay.

308
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:31.980
And then the doctor was going to land the TARDIS around them and Stephen Moffatt said, no, it needs to be a bit more proactive than that.

309
00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:35.579
And so Stephen Moffat and Chris Chip altogether, came up with, well, hold on.

310
00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:38.819
She is the queen of Egypt, she can fight.

311
00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:39.779
We've seen that this episode.

312
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:44.279
Why doesn't she take him out, and then the doctor does the science-y stuff, and then they both leave.

313
00:22:44.339 --> 00:22:45.480
Yeah.

314
00:22:45.539 --> 00:22:47.279
And I think that ending is perfect.

315
00:22:47.339 --> 00:22:55.740
And I'm someone who has complained a lot about the last few years of Doctor Who where the doctor just seems to let the villains wander off.

316
00:22:55.799 --> 00:23:10.319
And here we have the doctor leaving David Bradley in the spaceship that's going to be hit by the missiles because he's put that dodecahedron thing there for the missiles to home in on.

317
00:23:10.380 --> 00:23:11.700
And I think it's great.

318
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:12.960
It is great.

319
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.960
I wanted him dead and I wanted the doctor to do something.

320
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:25.200
And he says beforehand, he says, did the Siderians beg you to stop?

321
00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:26.640
you know.

322
00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:38.759
And one of the things that Chibill does too, is he inadvertently sometimes includes things that are utterly, utterly horrible in his stories without really kind of addressing them.

323
00:23:38.819 --> 00:23:46.920
So for example, does the dog die.com in episode 6 or whatever of flux.

324
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:52.740
So we have 7000000000 dogs die off screen and sort of nothing really comes of that.

325
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:56.279
I think Carbon is to house and then we all get on with our lives.

326
00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:07.259
Here, he does address the genocide of the Silurians, that David Bradley and Mitchell and Webb have systematically killed 1000s of Silurians.

327
00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:08.940
And so he makes us feel that.

328
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:11.400
And I think once he kills Tracy.

329
00:24:11.579 --> 00:24:11.940
That's it.

330
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:15.000
You know, he kills it is another...

331
00:24:15.059 --> 00:24:15.900
That was unforgivable.

332
00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:17.640
Yeah, does the dog die.com again.

333
00:24:17.700 --> 00:24:19.799
You know, he just shoots the triceratops.

334
00:24:19.859 --> 00:24:21.359
That was a...

335
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:22.559
That was a lot of dogs.

336
00:24:23.099 --> 00:24:24.480
Yeah.

337
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:26.400
Yeah.

338
00:24:26.460 --> 00:24:31.440
So I'm super on board with him just leaving him to be got by the missiles.

339
00:24:31.500 --> 00:24:32.160
He deserves it.

340
00:24:32.220 --> 00:24:35.940
But how one, please, does Matt play it as well?

341
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.819
Because he's very calm and measured.

342
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:40.980
He's not at all hysterical about it.

343
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:46.680
And I was sort of thinking about, you know, with a bit about like, oh, did the Silurians beg for mercy?

344
00:24:46.740 --> 00:25:09.599
I was thinking of Christopher Eccleston's confrontation with the Dalek, you know, when he was torturing the Dalek, and he's just that little bit at that stage, he is a bit hysterical because he's very much wounded and he has that, um, you know, like, ah, little, you know, you know, and whereas now he's just very calm and measured and just said, you know, you've done something awful.

345
00:25:09.660 --> 00:25:12.480
Think about it because, yeah.

346
00:25:12.539 --> 00:25:18.000
And it's just like he just draws that line and says that's it, buddy. you've you had your chance.

347
00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:22.920
And, yeah, um, but he's, he doesn't make it, he doesn't.

348
00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:23.940
I imagine tenant playing that.

349
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:25.980
Oh, it would be all kind of...

350
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:29.519
Yeah. behind him.

351
00:25:29.579 --> 00:25:32.099
Yeah, giant teeth. slow motion.

352
00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:35.099
Did they beg for mercy?

353
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:36.779
Tell me.

354
00:25:40.259 --> 00:25:42.960
In a sort of metatextual way.

355
00:25:43.019 --> 00:25:51.599
I think the other reason Solomon has to die, and I'm going to be on record as saying it's absolutely brilliant, and I remember in 2012 sitting there going, ooh, yeah.

356
00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:52.799
And I'm like, no, I like this.

357
00:25:52.980 --> 00:26:00.000
In a metatextual kind of way, everyone else in the story is heroic and a bit funny.

358
00:26:00.059 --> 00:26:10.859
Even the robots are kind of comedy robots, and they don't actually want to hurt you at all, and when they don't succeed in hurting you, it's just, oh, we definitely used to be faster.

359
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:14.759
You know, and they're really funny.

360
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:21.000
Whereas Solomon is almost a new adventures kind of villain.

361
00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:26.819
And it's almost like the script is going, well, no, you don't belong in the Doctor Who universe.

362
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:27.420
Bugger off.

363
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:29.279
We're having fun with dinosaurs. you.

364
00:26:29.339 --> 00:26:30.660
Excuse me.

365
00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:35.160
And yeah, he just doesn't fit in that way.

366
00:26:35.339 --> 00:26:41.579
And in a way, it's good that he doesn't fit because the scene where he's asking the doctor to treat him.

367
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:50.519
And the doctor, you know, kind of charmingly says, well, you know, yes, I'll happily treat you like, how about you tell me about what you're doing on this ship and Solomon's response is immediately, shoot one of them.

368
00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:53.460
Yeah, injure the older one or something like that.

369
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:54.059
It's really.

370
00:26:54.119 --> 00:27:01.259
Yeah, and it underlines, okay, this is not your, this is not a fun Doctor Who villain.

371
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:08.519
Like, I would say he's possibly more ruthless in execution than Madame Cavarian who is at least having fun with what she's doing.

372
00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:09.779
Yeah.

373
00:27:09.779 --> 00:27:10.500
You know?

374
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:16.019
But it's such a brilliant performance from David Bradley.

375
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:25.740
And it's sort of amazing that this is his kneebrock's moment where Stephen Moffatt goes, hey, you'd be good as William Hartnell.

376
00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:27.839
He would definitely shoot people in the face.

377
00:27:27.900 --> 00:27:30.779
At least hit them over the back of the head with a rock.

378
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:40.079
Apparently he's just the nicest, sweetest, cuddliest guy in real life, but he just plays this.

379
00:27:40.140 --> 00:27:47.039
He's made a, you know, a career out of playing repulsive characters. like he's just always, always, even the 1st doctor.

380
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:49.500
I shouldn't say that.

381
00:27:50.220 --> 00:27:53.579
It's almost a Harry Potter reunion.

382
00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:54.839
Yeah.

383
00:27:54.900 --> 00:27:57.660
I think the one problem.

384
00:27:57.720 --> 00:28:10.200
And again, it's a typically chibnal thing is having our acquisitive, money hungry person given a Jewish name.

385
00:28:10.859 --> 00:28:13.500
Oh, I didn't pick up on that.

386
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:14.880
It might have been.

387
00:28:15.420 --> 00:28:17.880
Yeah, I think it might have been better to go for a space name.

388
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:19.799
I think it is a bit unfortunate.

389
00:28:19.859 --> 00:28:22.319
Yeah, I was so good at that. space name.

390
00:28:22.380 --> 00:28:24.420
He is a cheap little space name.

391
00:28:25.019 --> 00:28:29.700
Now, I have heard that objection to this episode before.

392
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:34.319
And something that struck me was the director is Saul Metzky.

393
00:28:34.380 --> 00:28:34.920
Yeah, yeah.

394
00:28:34.980 --> 00:28:55.140
And so not only is he of Jewish heritage, but his father, Izzy Metzstein, was in Berlin in 1938 and he and his 4 siblings, their mother got them out of the country, sent them to England and joined them and they settled in Scotland and that's where Saul was sort of brought up as well.

395
00:28:55.200 --> 00:29:02.640
And so I have to think that if that consideration was there by the production team, You do at least have a Jewish director.

396
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:06.420
Yeah, someone's voice was heard about it and clearly he was okay with it.

397
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:13.920
That doesn't mean necessarily that it's okay, but certainly, you know, like it's something on which people might differ.

398
00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:14.940
I think.

399
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.380
Or possibly it's because of the connotations of the name Solomon.

400
00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:20.940
Yeah.

401
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:35.400
See, you see, I heard the name Solomon and just thought we're juxtaposing with the traditional wisdom of the character and taking it to a ridiculous extreme of what if he actually meant cutting the baby in half and just saw it as a possession.

402
00:29:51.059 --> 00:30:02.940
We actually talked in last week's episode a little bit about how the doctor disappears himself from the database at the very end and noticed that he's not there in Solomon's database.

403
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:12.720
So Solomon has a database because of course he does that lists everything in the whole world and how much it costs, but it doesn't include the doctor somehow.

404
00:30:12.779 --> 00:30:19.079
I also like the feint that you kind of led to, oh, I don't know where you found it.

405
00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:20.759
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

406
00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:22.440
You think he's going to say...

407
00:30:22.500 --> 00:30:24.180
Yeah, I thought it was the target.

408
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:28.200
Dehumanising her. referring to her as a thing.

409
00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:28.859
It yeah.

410
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:35.220
And and then it turns out it's Nefertiti and it's like, oh, this guy is real piece of work.

411
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:39.960
I mean, we already know by that point that he's cremated genocide, I think.

412
00:30:40.019 --> 00:30:42.599
Yeah, yeah, we know he's spaced to the soilureans.

413
00:30:42.660 --> 00:30:42.839
Yeah.

414
00:30:42.900 --> 00:30:43.380
Yeah, yeah.

415
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:46.559
Oh, speaking of solo ins, it just popped into my head.

416
00:30:46.619 --> 00:30:48.839
Amy says, scan for homo reptilia.

417
00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:50.700
That is so great.

418
00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:51.539
Yeah.

419
00:30:51.539 --> 00:30:52.799
She has to be in the doctor.

420
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:55.680
New wrong name every time I appear.

421
00:30:57.420 --> 00:31:02.279
Yeah, we do know that straight up Solomon's Solomon's a nasty piece.

422
00:31:02.339 --> 00:31:03.480
And I agree with you, James.

423
00:31:03.539 --> 00:31:05.880
I totally thought he was after the Tartars.

424
00:31:05.940 --> 00:31:07.740
You know, that kind of makes sense.

425
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:11.640
And it makes you wonder what else Oswin deleted last week.

426
00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:12.480
Yeah, yeah.

427
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:15.839
Because the Daleks don't react to the TARDIS last week either.

428
00:31:15.900 --> 00:31:21.299
Like, they don't say, oh, that's a, you know, even if they've forgotten the doctor, they probably remember the time war, maybe.

429
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:27.839
But that's how Lurian we see on the screen in line with the last time Chibnall wrote them.

430
00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:32.220
So he had Restack, who was a tribute to Terence Dix.

431
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:32.759
Yes.

432
00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:35.940
We had Malocare, who was Malcolm Malcolm Hulk.

433
00:31:36.059 --> 00:31:40.799
This solar in name, never mentioned dialogue or written, but in the script, he's Blatell.

434
00:31:40.859 --> 00:31:44.160
He's Barry Letts..

435
00:31:46.140 --> 00:31:50.579
But yes, he is played by Richard Hope, who played Malakare.

436
00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:52.680
And that was in the script.

437
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:56.400
Oh, because he's like part of the same gene thing or whatever.

438
00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:58.740
Yeah, they have. thought he was really good.

439
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:01.740
I should work out our Sillyrian names.

440
00:32:01.799 --> 00:32:03.359
Like we should...

441
00:32:04.380 --> 00:32:07.200
We'll get back to you.

442
00:32:07.259 --> 00:32:07.680
Yeah.

443
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:19.799
So like I was kind of delighted the Silurians were involved because when you have the sort of dinosaurs on a spaceship premise.

444
00:32:19.859 --> 00:32:24.779
I do think that we were kind of immediately thinking, what the hell is this going to be?

445
00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:31.859
And of course, giving the Silurians the ability to travel into interstellar space, like, okay, well, whatever, who cares?

446
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:36.000
Like they certainly didn't have that in the original conception, but why not?

447
00:32:36.059 --> 00:32:39.420
Some of them hibernate underground and some of them head off into space.

448
00:32:39.779 --> 00:32:45.420
And so you get those really nice elements of the design, like all of the vegetation and stuff everywhere.

449
00:32:45.420 --> 00:32:50.400
And the spaceship itself looks absolutely incredible, doesn't it?

450
00:32:50.460 --> 00:32:52.859
And so does David Bradley spaceship.

451
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:54.660
Like those effects look just amazing.

452
00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:06.119
I love the fact that even in a prehistoric era, the Salurians were environmentalists, they used wave technology.

453
00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:14.400
Yeah, spaceship, they have a giant ocean and beach which generates the energy for their spaceship.

454
00:33:14.460 --> 00:33:16.799
That's a really fun, cool concept.

455
00:33:16.859 --> 00:33:18.480
There's a bit forest in the middle.

456
00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:21.660
Yeah, in the middle of the Byzantium.

457
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:22.740
Yeah, yeah.

458
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:26.279
And it gives us a chance to go back to that location again.

459
00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:31.259
There's there's roses...

460
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:34.319
Is there another beach in Wales?

461
00:33:34.380 --> 00:33:37.740
There's got to be more than one beach in your house.

462
00:33:38.099 --> 00:33:43.259
I mean, it's a very beautiful beach, but yeah, it's stunning.

463
00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:47.220
It's a stunning beach, but every time you go there, you're like, yeah, bad one, mate.

464
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:51.119
Around this time this episode went out, actually.

465
00:33:51.420 --> 00:33:56.819
I was staying with my friends, Ed and Die, because I was sort of doing a farewell tour before I left the UK.

466
00:33:56.819 --> 00:33:59.640
And they took me to that beach.

467
00:33:59.940 --> 00:34:02.339
It's not that far from Cardiff.

468
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:03.779
I think it was less than an hour's drive.

469
00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:04.920
Could be longer.

470
00:34:04.980 --> 00:34:06.000
My geography is terrible.

471
00:34:06.059 --> 00:34:10.139
But they did take a photo of me at the top of the cliffs.

472
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:12.239
I just sort of got close and looked down.

473
00:34:12.300 --> 00:34:15.480
And then Ed's very good with Photoshop and he Photoshopped a drashing.

474
00:34:15.539 --> 00:34:17.579
I've seen that photo, I think.

475
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:23.519
Well, in fact, that scene is very carnival monsters, isn't it?

476
00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:31.139
Because they're in this environment inside a big machine and they run into a cave to escape the monsters that are attacking them.

477
00:34:31.260 --> 00:34:35.699
Like it does have a real proper sort of kind of monsters vibe, I think.

478
00:34:35.820 --> 00:34:39.239
And I will say something, and this is something very silly.

479
00:34:39.300 --> 00:34:46.320
I noticed, like when they run into the cave, there's a close-up of Brian and there's a join line in the rock behind him, a very vertical join line.

480
00:34:46.380 --> 00:34:48.119
But I went, no, hold on.

481
00:34:48.179 --> 00:34:49.619
This is allowed to be fake.

482
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:51.420
It is fake.

483
00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:52.019
This is fine.

484
00:34:55.079 --> 00:35:02.940
Did you wonder why, because I was sort of thinking, surely Amy and Rory have seen Jurassic Park.

485
00:35:02.940 --> 00:35:07.500
And, you know, they've seen where they, with all the velociraptors, is it velociraptors?

486
00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:07.980
Yeah.

487
00:35:07.980 --> 00:35:09.420
Like these little...

488
00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:12.239
Yeah, they were bloody scary in Jurassic Park.

489
00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:13.199
I was terrified.

490
00:35:13.260 --> 00:35:19.199
I went to see that with friends of the podcast, Pete McTie and Paul Masters when it came out.

491
00:35:19.260 --> 00:35:22.260
And we were all really, really scared.

492
00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:24.539
And those were nasty.

493
00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:35.519
So if you had actually seen Jurassic Park, and then you came across and you were like, you'd be like, whoa, you'd be really like, this isn't just a bit of fun, like with a gun.

494
00:35:35.579 --> 00:35:37.980
Yeah, just shoot a dinosaur, shoot a dinosaur.

495
00:35:37.980 --> 00:35:40.559
You'd be like, oh, I don't, I'm out of here.

496
00:35:40.619 --> 00:35:43.079
Yeah, these are nasty little.

497
00:35:43.139 --> 00:35:46.320
It's all the same CG models that they use in primeval.

498
00:35:46.380 --> 00:35:48.420
Oh, okay.

499
00:35:48.420 --> 00:35:49.019
How come?

500
00:35:49.079 --> 00:35:50.340
Because primeval's ITV.

501
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:51.360
Yeah, it's the mill.

502
00:35:51.420 --> 00:35:53.519
Ah, the mill did the...

503
00:35:53.579 --> 00:35:55.800
They own the they own the CG model.

504
00:35:55.860 --> 00:35:59.940
Ah, I mean, it's a mixture of puppetry and CG models, isn't it?

505
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:06.900
Well, apparently the only practical dinosaur was a large section of Tricey. jump on.

506
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:14.519
But isn't the, isn't the, no, there is a practical puppet, which is the sleepy baby T-Rex, which they walk over. definitely a puppet.

507
00:36:14.579 --> 00:36:16.019
I did think that was a prop, yeah.

508
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:16.440
Yeah.

509
00:36:16.500 --> 00:36:18.420
I mean, the puppetry is really great.

510
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:27.360
Often the often that dinosaur, you know, when they're riding it and stuff, it is CG and then they've got the puppet so that it can kind of leak Brian's face.

511
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:32.760
It's so crazy.

512
00:36:32.820 --> 00:36:33.960
It's so good.

513
00:36:34.019 --> 00:36:37.679
His face is covered in swarf eager and he's kind of going, I want to go home.

514
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:39.780
It's tremendous.

515
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:48.000
It's actually, um, that, so yes, they're writing a puppet. but most of those scenes are then see, like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

516
00:36:48.059 --> 00:36:49.619
CG mapped onto the...

517
00:36:49.619 --> 00:36:49.920
Yeah.

518
00:36:49.920 --> 00:37:00.119
For the motion shots to cover that it's more just that you want the reference material, so you can get everything exactly right.

519
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:08.760
I could tell you too that as somebody who rides horses, there's no way that you would be able to sit on the back of that triceratops without falling off.

520
00:37:10.019 --> 00:37:14.639
I love Matt going, how do you start a triceratops?

521
00:37:14.699 --> 00:37:17.639
And then him looking for the brakes later on.

522
00:37:17.699 --> 00:37:19.019
So good.

523
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:22.380
Matt Smith does actually say in confidential.

524
00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:27.119
Yeah, this is very, very different and bumpier than riding a whore.

525
00:37:27.179 --> 00:37:30.539
Even just like the prop on wheels.

526
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:35.400
I mean, that thing is so much fun.

527
00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:41.519
And, you know, we have a fantastic dinosaur story already in Doctor Who.

528
00:37:41.579 --> 00:37:46.079
But, you know, the puppets are absolutely lamentably terrible.

529
00:37:46.139 --> 00:37:54.480
If only they could get the CG models from this and use them to do the special edition of Invasion of the Dinosaurs for this series.

530
00:37:54.539 --> 00:37:55.019
Oh, sorry.

531
00:37:55.019 --> 00:37:56.340
Yeah, 11 Blu-ray.

532
00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:56.699
Yeah.

533
00:37:56.699 --> 00:37:58.739
Get on it, Pete McKay.

534
00:38:00.659 --> 00:38:07.260
But look, before he passed away for the Time Warrior DVD, which had new effects.

535
00:38:07.500 --> 00:38:13.559
Barry let's turn to the animator after seeing the new effects and said, so about invasion of the dinosaur.

536
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:17.460
Barry wants it to happen.

537
00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:19.739
I think it should happen.

538
00:38:19.739 --> 00:38:20.400
It should happen.

539
00:38:20.460 --> 00:38:24.360
I mean, I just think they're so fun and so effective.

540
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:25.920
They're incredibly good.

541
00:38:25.980 --> 00:38:28.440
And, you know, there are moments where you kind of think...

542
00:38:28.619 --> 00:38:30.900
Well, I mean, they look like special effects and of course they do.

543
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:32.820
But they're hero special effects.

544
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:38.099
They're ones that you're supposed to look at and go, this is an amazing effect and they really work.

545
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:40.199
So let's see, what do we have?

546
00:38:40.260 --> 00:38:42.179
We have Angleosaurs at the beginning.

547
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:43.800
Baby T-Rex.

548
00:38:43.860 --> 00:38:46.500
A whole gaggle of velociraptors.

549
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:47.039
Yep.

550
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:48.480
Pterodactyls.

551
00:38:48.539 --> 00:38:51.179
And triceratops. and triceratops.

552
00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:53.820
Yeah, you know, 5 kinds of dinosaurs.

553
00:38:53.880 --> 00:39:07.260
And Chris Chibnall, Caro Skinner went into the mill and had a discussion and an interview about, okay, what kind of dinosaurs can we actually have?

554
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:09.239
And that then worked its way into the script.

555
00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:12.780
Fiona, would you like to describe to the listener what your whole card?

556
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:15.179
Is this Tri-C?

557
00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:16.260
It's Tracy.

558
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:25.139
It's a, um, it's one of my dog's toys, but it's a little, it's, it's nearly as cute as Tricey, the dinosaurs on a spaceship Tricey.

559
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:26.760
It's kind of a miniature version.

560
00:39:26.820 --> 00:39:29.519
A miniature version with kind of...

561
00:39:29.579 --> 00:39:32.400
I think so, yeah, in the show notes, I think.

562
00:39:32.460 --> 00:39:36.059
But yeah, Tracy, unfortunately, has an injury.

563
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:41.340
Not a laser gun to the head, but a chewed horn.

564
00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:46.079
One of his 3 horns has been... called Solomon by any other.

565
00:39:46.139 --> 00:39:48.179
No, no, Albert.

566
00:39:54.599 --> 00:40:09.840
One thing I'd like to mention before we go is it's been 10 months in universe since Asylum of the Daleks, which in itself has to be a few months after Wedding of River Song, and between those, you've got the doctor, the widow, and the wardrobe, where they hadn't seen him for 2 years.

567
00:40:09.900 --> 00:40:10.500
Yeah.

568
00:40:10.500 --> 00:40:13.619
So if we assume the Wedding of River Song is late 2011.

569
00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:20.039
So then Christmas 2013 is Dr. Widow on the wardrobe, that scene.

570
00:40:20.099 --> 00:40:25.920
We are approaching Christmas 2014 in this episode, at least, if not early 2015.

571
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:35.219
So Amy and Rory have lived through cybermen rising from the graves while a strange Scottish woman floats over the parasol.

572
00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:38.820
You know, I really, really like this.

573
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:56.400
And we said last week, and again, in this episode, we've talked about how this is supposed to be like a series of movies, but it does have an arc, and the arc is that Amy and Rory might not need the doctor so much anymore.

574
00:40:56.460 --> 00:41:02.820
And it's beautifully done in Power of 3 where Amy actually does do the maths, doesn't she?

575
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:10.980
And or Rory, one of them does the maths and says, you know, I think we're probably 5 years older than we should be or something like that, you know.

576
00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:18.000
But the distances between their meetings with the doctor are being spaced out.

577
00:41:18.059 --> 00:41:38.460
And I think the doctor's aware of it because there is that absolutely stunningly beautiful scene where Brian is sat with his legs dangling out of the TARDIS door, looking down on earth, drinking tea from a thermos and having a sandwich.

578
00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:44.940
And that's beautiful because we've been told that all that Brian does is go to the shops and plays golf.

579
00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:46.139
He doesn't like travelling.

580
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:53.760
And then, yeah, you have to hang a lantern on that with the, let's have lots of photos of him and postcards.

581
00:41:53.820 --> 00:41:55.619
Oh, but that's a beautiful ending.

582
00:41:55.679 --> 00:41:57.000
We'll get to that in a second.

583
00:41:57.059 --> 00:42:09.000
But the point I wanted to make here. is that Amy and Rory are looking out onto earth and smiling and the doctor notices it and is crestfallen.

584
00:42:09.059 --> 00:42:12.239
Like he's starting to realise that they're growing.

585
00:42:12.300 --> 00:42:13.079
Yeah.

586
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:14.460
They're growing out of him.

587
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:14.820
Yeah.

588
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:19.739
And there's a change made to the original script to emphasise that.

589
00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:31.380
So the way Chibnall writes it is, 1st of all, Brian's there, and then Amy and Rory come and sit with him in the doorway, and then the doctor brings the sandwiches in the thermos.

590
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:35.519
And Stephen Moffatt kind of said, well, no, the arc we're going for is this.

591
00:42:35.579 --> 00:42:40.619
So can we change it to actually the doctors not quite a part of this?

592
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:42.599
And it's like, yeah, great.

593
00:42:42.659 --> 00:42:54.059
And it's just interesting how 2 writers have the same idea, but just by changing who's responsible for the sandwiches and the coffee and the actor's facial expressions changes the whole meaning of the scene.

594
00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:56.219
Yeah, it's a really, really good scene, I think.

595
00:42:56.280 --> 00:42:57.900
It's a really pretty good scene.

596
00:42:58.019 --> 00:43:09.900
I think that scene also has a great emotional resonance for Brian and for Amy and Rory, not just for the doctor realising that he's losing them and that they're growing out of him.

597
00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:22.739
Um, Brian, you know, is established in this episode and power of 3 and he was going to return at the end of uh, angels take Manhattan.

598
00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:29.340
And it shows how much that Rory and Amy love him.

599
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:47.159
Yeah, and that if they had made that the film that tiny little scene at the end with him getting the letter from them from the past, that would have had a huge emotional payoff for the character, you've grown, you've grown to love in just a few episodes.

600
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:48.480
Yeah.

601
00:43:48.539 --> 00:44:11.460
Yeah, I really love that ending scene. it's just beautiful And I think on the other side, Amy is worried that the doctor is losing interest in her and she actually asks whether he's travelling with Riddell and Nefertiti, the way that he travels with her and Rory.

602
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:21.420
And the doctor says, no, you know, you're the ponds, you're kind of special, and these are just sort of people that I'm, you know, travelling around with a bit, but you're important.

603
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:36.960
And, and Brian gets to be an honorary pond because it's his, yeah, his, um, it's his insight that Rory and him constitute that gene thingy you were just talking about.

604
00:44:37.019 --> 00:44:41.280
And so he's the one who actually saves the day and turns the spaceship around.

605
00:44:41.340 --> 00:44:43.139
And so he gets to be another pond.

606
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:53.099
And it's like Pond is this kind of honorific that the doctor, the reason that it's Rory Pond is that Rory is as important as Amy and now Brian is important.

607
00:44:53.159 --> 00:45:00.300
And so he isn't letting go of her, but there is something where they're kind of pulling apart.

608
00:45:00.539 --> 00:45:04.920
Yeah, that I love the scene with the just the 2 of them.

609
00:45:04.980 --> 00:45:13.079
Um, just the, the doctor and Amy, that little scene where he, she just says, oh, I just feel like you're weaning us off you.

610
00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:16.260
And um, and yeah, he does a little kiss on the forehead.

611
00:45:16.260 --> 00:45:19.920
And I think there's, the relationship in that is, is just gorgeous.

612
00:45:19.980 --> 00:45:28.800
And I love the fact that it's kind of that affectionate relationship where he obviously like adores her, but it's not at all sexualised.

613
00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:36.539
Whereas with, when you get Clara, it becomes a bit more kind of sexualised and a little bit, uh, bit dodgy.

614
00:45:36.599 --> 00:45:43.559
But with this, it's just kind of like, oh, you know, I just adore this woman and she adores me, but, um, yeah.

615
00:45:43.619 --> 00:45:48.840
And did you notice in the beginning, like, it's also a lovely episode for Amy and Rory's relationship.

616
00:45:48.900 --> 00:45:51.000
They're actually wearing matching clothes.

617
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:52.320
If you go back in the beginning.

618
00:45:52.380 --> 00:45:54.719
Yeah, she's got her horizontal stripes.

619
00:45:54.780 --> 00:45:58.380
He's actually the shirt underneath is horizontal stripes.

620
00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:16.920
So they're actually wearing matching clothes and they really are like working together beautifully after that conflict in the previous episode where, you know, they're on the verge of divorcing and they're just this beautiful little unit and a family, even, you know, with Brian in as well.

621
00:46:16.980 --> 00:46:28.199
Like it's, uh, I just love them all and I love the way too that they've subtly with her makeup made her just look that bit more grown up as well, just subtle changes.

622
00:46:28.739 --> 00:46:35.699
Because in viewing time, it's actually not that long, but in story, like you said, in story arc, it is a very long time.

623
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:42.659
They have done a really good way of making her look more like a grown up because she's very, very young in the, in the 1st few episodes.

624
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:48.719
Apart from when she's Amelia Pond and played by Caitlin, of course, when she's definitely younger.

625
00:46:51.300 --> 00:47:14.880
I really think that that's the best thing about this year's Doctor Who episodes. is the way that Amy and Rory's relationship settles down to be something that is just domestic, but it's a relationship that's been through a lot and the 2 of them absolutely have grown together.

626
00:47:14.940 --> 00:47:29.340
And it's the reason I think that maybe for me, town called Mercy is very, very good indeed, but I am a massive fan of the power of 3 because we just get so much of that in that episode.

627
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:39.900
The other thing I think the needs to be said from that, the scene with the doctor and Amy is the bit where she says like, oh, you'll be the deaf of me.

628
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:42.900
No, he'll be you'll be the deaf of me or said all vice.

629
00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:49.500
And then he's, the doctor's face when she's, um, he thinks about the fact that Amy could die.

630
00:47:49.559 --> 00:47:51.179
Um, yeah.

631
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:53.099
And of course, it's all that foreshadowing.

632
00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:55.380
But that's what I love about Matt Stock.

633
00:47:55.440 --> 00:48:01.199
Do I get endlessly in arguments of Joe Ford because he thinks Matt is rubbish and can't act?

634
00:48:01.980 --> 00:48:04.380
And I'm like, are you a psychopath?

635
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:05.340
Like, this is just...

636
00:48:05.340 --> 00:48:08.519
But yeah, just like, how...

637
00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:18.119
But he's one of those actors where he can say so much without uttering a word, like it's all on his face and just those subtle.

638
00:48:18.179 --> 00:48:29.460
He can be completely goofy and hands everywhere one minute and then very still and reflective and deadly serious and next and that's why he is my favourite doctor.

639
00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:30.840
Love him.

640
00:48:30.900 --> 00:48:31.559
Yeah.

641
00:48:31.619 --> 00:48:48.480
Yeah, I got god complex vibes from that moment where he's remembering that the reason that he originally left her behind was because he didn't want to be the death of her and like just the how his face falls as if maybe he's falling back into bad habits or something.

642
00:48:48.539 --> 00:48:50.519
It's very good.

643
00:49:12.119 --> 00:49:15.719
Well,ly listener, that's all we have time for this week.

644
00:49:15.780 --> 00:49:21.539
We'll be back next week for some moral quandaries and gunslinging in a town called Mercy.

645
00:49:21.659 --> 00:49:41.340
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook, at FTE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, Flightthrough Entirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody InterTara, Maximum Power, and Untitled Star Trek project.

646
00:49:41.519 --> 00:49:48.179
Until next time, remember, it's never a good idea to keep vegetable massa in your pants.

647
00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:50.699
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

648
00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:52.679
Courgettes, good night.

649
00:49:52.739 --> 00:49:53.760
Ta-ta.

650
00:49:53.820 --> 00:49:55.019
Good night.

651
00:49:59.579 --> 00:50:05.579
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, James Selwood, and Fiona Tomney.

652
00:50:05.639 --> 00:50:07.739
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

653
00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:14.579
This episode, his kneebrox moment was recorded on the 13th of March 2022 and released on the 17th of April.

654
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:30.119
Anyone can wish for a version of the invasion of the dinosaurs with updated CGI dinosaur effects, but only FDE can campaign for a version of dinosaurs on a spaceship with the CGI dinosaurs replaced by rod and wire puppets created by Rodney Fuller.

655
00:50:30.179 --> 00:50:34.320
Join our campaign on Twitter at hashtag MakeTriceyReal.

656
00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:40.920
Maybe kind of appropriate to mention that Mass Myth really plants one on Arthur Darwin.

657
00:50:40.980 --> 00:50:41.940
I know this episode.

658
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:43.019
But then he slaps his face.

659
00:50:43.079 --> 00:50:44.699
Like it's like, oh, you did a good thing.

660
00:50:44.760 --> 00:50:45.480
Kiss.

661
00:50:45.539 --> 00:50:46.920
Oh, you idiot, it didn't work.

662
00:50:47.219 --> 00:50:53.519
And like it's one of those things where it's that slapping his face thing has got to be just mad.

663
00:50:53.579 --> 00:50:57.000
Like, there's no way that that's not business matters, Vincent.

664
00:50:57.059 --> 00:50:58.559
So good.

665
00:50:58.619 --> 00:51:00.900
Chris Chibnell's best script.

666
00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:08.519
I think Power of 3, E, maybe, Power of 3, although this is very good.

667
00:51:08.579 --> 00:51:09.420
This is up there.

668
00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:10.679
Yeah, no, I agree, I agree.

669
00:51:10.739 --> 00:51:14.159
It's worrying that his 2 best scripts are in this season.

670
00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:20.280
Yeah, well, what's his best script for the, what's his best script for the 13th doctor, do you think?

671
00:51:20.340 --> 00:51:22.619
Well, do you do you count the co-written script?

672
00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:24.539
Or do you count his soul?

673
00:51:24.599 --> 00:51:25.920
You are like fugitive of the jury?

674
00:51:25.980 --> 00:51:27.599
because that's the thing.

675
00:51:27.659 --> 00:51:30.539
I would say fugitive, but if we're doing solo, I would say War of the Centaurans.

676
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:33.119
Yeah, I would probably say War of the Sautarans too.

677
00:51:33.179 --> 00:51:34.260
It is pretty damn great.

678
00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:35.460
Yeah.

679
00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:46.380
But I was also going to say this is completely facetious, but between my 1st viewing of this episode and this current viewing, I've seen Matt Smith in Maplethorpe.

680
00:51:46.619 --> 00:51:49.139
Oh, that, that's out.

681
00:51:49.619 --> 00:51:55.079
I don't...

682
00:51:55.079 --> 00:52:02.219
It's probably prosthetic G. To be honest, I think the sexual content in it is tamer than the American queer as folk.

683
00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:02.940
Right, okay.

684
00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:06.539
But he's still bloody excellent in it.

685
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:08.699
Wow, he's such a great actor.

686
00:52:08.820 --> 00:52:13.500
And like the 1st shot is over his shoulder and Rod didn't tell me what we were watching.

687
00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:14.460
First shot is over his shoulder.

688
00:52:14.519 --> 00:52:15.719
I'm like, I know that chin.

689
00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:19.260
Like, literally, I went, I know that chick.

690
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:21.659
Where's that chin going?

691
00:52:21.780 --> 00:52:22.679
Chinny.

692
00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:28.199
Is it does John Hurt call him chinny?

693
00:52:28.260 --> 00:52:29.400
Chinny and sand shoes?

694
00:52:29.460 --> 00:52:30.539
Yeah, chinny and sand shoes.

695
00:52:31.619 --> 00:52:33.059
Yeah.

696
00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:34.260
Oh, dear.

697
00:52:34.260 --> 00:52:35.099
John Smith.

698
00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:36.420
Did I say John Smith or John?

699
00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:37.139
No, you said John Herbert.

700
00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:38.340
I've got a Matt Smith chip.

701
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:39.840
No, you don't.

702
00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:42.300
I've got a chin.

703
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:45.539
Cyra has it, Matt Smith's chin.

704
00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:46.079
Yes.

705
00:52:46.139 --> 00:52:48.179
Yeah, in discovering.

706
00:52:50.099 --> 00:52:52.139
Oh, that was really fun.

707
00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:52.980
Thank you for that.

708
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:54.000
Thank you for being on that.

709
00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:58.739
I think there was a little bit of latency between...

710
00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:01.800
Yeah, like I think you were hearing us again after we...

711
00:53:01.860 --> 00:53:04.739
Yeah, but I can fix that. yeah fix it and post it.

712
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:05.519
I am very skilled.