WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:44:06

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Hello, dear Lisa, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the

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only Doctor Who podcast compelled to take a break for a few weeks

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by the sheer power of narrative inevitability.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Simon.

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I'm Kevin.

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Well, the new girl already stole their Thunder way back in episode

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one, and so Amy and Rory Williams now have no choice but to leave

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us for good at the end of episode five.

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It's an unavoidable, ineluctable, fixed point in time.

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It's the Angels Take Manhattan.

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Can I start by making a controversial claim that the people who

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avoid spoilers completely who don't watch any trailers who try and

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avoid news about the show are going to have had a really difficult

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time understanding what the hell is going on in this episode?

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Why do you say that?

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Because the episode is so much about the inevitability of Amy and

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Rory leaving.

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Yes.

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Oh, fair enough, but it is kind of signposted throughout the

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episodes of the season.

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Yeah.

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I mean, it's literally an episode where the doctor reads spoilers

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that he's about to lose his companions and flips out.

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Yeah, yeah.

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There is a sort of sense in which when the show is being made very

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carefully.

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The sort of parotext, the things like the press releases the

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announcements, trailers and so on, are an important part of the

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process of understanding how the show works.

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And we've already seen that this year, I think, with Asylum of the

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Daleks, where the new girl unexpectedly turns up.

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And if you hadn't had the news that Jenna Coleman was going to be

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taking over next year, I think you would have been pretty confused

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as to what was going on there as well.

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No, I don't think so.

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I think that still works beautifully because the way she turns to

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the camera at the end and says, and remember, it still works if

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you don't know what's coming.

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Yeah, but it isn't. read the press releases and read all the

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blurbs.

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I actually watched it with people who hadn't and hadn't heard of

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her and I was just sort of gibbering for about 2 minutes before I

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could actually explain what was going on.

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It was a pretty incredible experience watching it that way.

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I think it's a bonus to actually know that she's coming. think it

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adds to it.

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Oh, yeah, absolutely.

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But you can still work with that.

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Yeah, that's true.

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You'd have to be in a complete cave to not know anything.

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I mean, I know I did.

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I know this is a slight jab.

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In my original attempt to how to watch the new series when it came

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back.

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But by now, that had long fallen out the window.

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They prove it to be impossible.

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Thank you for that, clarif. 2005, 2005 was very different, a

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different place to 20 whenever this was 2012.

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And certainly now.

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And right from the very beginning, we get this equivalence being

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drawn between this episode and a sort of, I guess it's a a sort of

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noir-ish, hard-boiled detective novel of some kind.

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The genre of noir is itself just kind of window dressing, there's

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not really an easy name, it needs to be noir, but the book itself

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is just very Amy, very Moffat, because her whole story is sort of

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bookended as a fairy tale.

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Of course, the end of her story is going to be all about a book

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ending.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And so at some point we actually see the table of contents, and

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the 1st chapter is called the dying detective, and we actually get

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that 1st chapter before the opening credits.

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And in fact, the last thing that gets typed on the screen, because

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we've got Nick Curran back and he's doing really sort of clever

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visual things.

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And so the voiceover isn't being accompanied by someone typing.

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And the last thing that's typed is the chapter title.

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Yeah, and I actually had a thought about that one because I was

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watching that thinking to myself, is this the 1st new series

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companion departure story where the companion doesn't appear in

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the pre-titles?

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It's not about them, but I sort of noticed at the end, we cut back

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to those typewriter enter cuts and it's Amy typing it.

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So actually she is hanging over it.

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It's just in a very different way from previous ones.

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Yeah, that's right.

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But I mean, we have rose as a narrator at the beginning of Army of

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Ghosts saying that we're about to hear the story of how she died

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and obviously Russell kind of, you know, punts on that or

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whatever.

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But that's just terrible, though.

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Yeah, it is a bit terrible.

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I mean, I love it.

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I love it.

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It's melodramatic.

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It makes no sense.

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I love it.

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It's over the top.

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It's too self-referential.

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Oh my god, you love me so much and you're going to be so

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devastated when I'm out of the program and I'm going to trick you

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for the next hour and a half that, you know, I actually die and

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that's what all the, you know, media is about that I'm going to be

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I'm going to die.

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And you're going to be so sad because you all love me.

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You love me so much.

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Whereas, whereas this is, this has got a word that Russell doesn't

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understand called subtle.

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Well I don't know that it does.

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I mean it has a book in it. all subtle.

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Come on, it's got the statue of Liberty.

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You know, everybody's got to turn away from the Statue of Liberty

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at the ones.

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Yes, I love it.

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It's only about 8000000 people that need to look away.

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I think that's sort of the thing that hangs over pretty much all

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the companion departures to this point, though, and doctor

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departures too, just kind of the sense that you are going to miss

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me so much.

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So we are going to go big and emotional and just let you grieve

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with the characters.

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And that, to me, is kind of the point of a big departure story.

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So I always love when they go all out to just try and make me cry

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and hit me over the head with emotions because that's what I'm

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feeling anyway if they've done the job right to make me care about

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the character.

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Oh, yeah, that's right.

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So you do their job right by making us care about the character.

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Not tell us, you should care about me, or you do care about me.

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That's my issue with me.

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You mean, just telling Yaz, she's the most important person we've

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ever met?

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Is not enough?

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Not really.

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No way.

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Anyway, that's in the future.

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But I mean, this isn't subtle.

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We have someone narrating. this episode.

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Part of this episode is us watching the episode get written.

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And one of the characters has a book in his pocket, which is the

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story of the episode.

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So this is self-referential as it's possible to get, I think.

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Oh, from that point of view, yes.

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Yeah, you know, I won't.

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Don't you think it's a bit of a nod to a target novelisation?

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Oh, yeah. think so. absolutely absolutely.

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Please tell me one of the chapters is called Escape today.

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It really is, isn't it?

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That, that particularly the shot of the, um, of the table of

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contents is absolutely a target novelisation.

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And Moffatt is someone who knows and love the target novelisations

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and even has the opportunity to write one himself, which is

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absolutely extraordinary.

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Which one's that?

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The day of the doctor.

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It's a really, really, really good novelisation.

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It's just as smug and self-congratulatory as you would expect.

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You can see him going, oh, this is pros.

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I don't know pros.

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I'm going to 2nd guess every choice and make it like 900 times

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more complicated than a meat speed.

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Because he's Moffat, it's clever anyway, and he gets away with it

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but...

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Absolutely great.

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And we've already talked about Nick Curran, and there is an

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incredible amount of atmosphere here, as always.

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Oh my god, yeah.

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It's absolutely a beautiful episode.

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I mean, he has a lot of fun with the noir stuff in the front half

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which makes it so much more than the window dressing it could have

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been.

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And then when he has to switch on a dime, just make it the

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operatic emotional fireworks.

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He does.

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I mean, Karen and Arthur just give such good performances that

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he's drawing out of them and every shot is just quite beautiful.

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Like the scene of Amy and Rory jumping off that roof is just stuck

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with me ever since.

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Yeah, yeah, I mean, we'll get to that, but I think that that is an

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extraordinary scene, a really, really, very good scene.

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He's an incredibly well crafted episode.

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It all it all looks so nice.

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It all feels consistent.

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And it's all, it's not just a few nods to the film noir genre.

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You know, the whole the whole narration of the typing. very Sam

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Spade. drag net. all that in his 40s era.

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And the fact they go back to the 30s as well.

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It's all consistent.

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I think that that visual style does continue right the way through

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even to the virtually the very end.

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So after the credits, we go straight into New York.

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Yeah.

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I mean, it's such a beautiful setting in the park, and, you know

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once Doctor Who couldn't go far from BBC television studios, but

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now we're so big that we are here with this cast.

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What a difference it is from the last time they went to New York

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where they just, you got a couple plate shots and went, okay, we're

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done. lets grab a bunch of British actors and tell them to do the

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anchor.

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Yeah.

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I actually kind of think because Dalek's in Manhattan, which we

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actually quite liked, I have to say.

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Not me Most of us actually quite liked, I must say.

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That should always have been called the Daleks Take Manhattan.

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And so this is kind of Moffatt saying, actually, you just watch me

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in charge of this show. do a story set in New York and I'll show

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you how it's done because it's amazing.

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I mean, there's a very sort of crummy dad core musical choice.

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Yeah.

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So good.

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Very much we have a straight man in charge of the show now.

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So we'll have Sting rather than Britney or Scissor Sisters.

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It's just so 11th doctor to play just the corniest possible

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musical choice.

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Oh, I'm an idiot.

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I mean, of course, you could just see him dancing like disco or

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something like that. just be terrible and he'll be having the time

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of his life.

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But it does work because he's an Englishman.

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I like that too. on about, he's that the posh public schoolboy.

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And so it works that he's the Englishman.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, I think that's fair.

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That opening scene is really terrific.

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And I like the fact that we don't catch them in the middle of an

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adventure that we actually just get to have hang time with them.

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Yeah, and these companions have had the longest run in the new

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series.

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Yeah.

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And I think that this TARDIS team is one of the most iconic teams

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in the new series.

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I love them enormously.

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And I've always loved hanging out with them.

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And so going out with them and River for the final episode is so

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great.

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And just, there's that follow-up.

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You know, in Power of three.

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We mentioned this last week.

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In power of three.

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They get a phone call.

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Amy gets a phone call from the optician saying that her reading

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glasses are ready.

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And now she's wearing them.

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And we've had all this talk about how they've been ageing out of a

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relationship with a doctor.

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The childhood friend and adulthood is definitely here.

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And so having the doctor say, oh, you know, I don't like those

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glasses, they make your eyes look liny.

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And then she takes the glasses off and he's sort of horrified to

252
00:12:28.860 --> 00:12:29.220
discover.

253
00:12:30.539 --> 00:12:33.779
I mean, that's the really beautiful thing about this script.

254
00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:35.820
Even when you're just doing hang time with the characters.

255
00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:39.120
Every line is doing so much work in so many different directions.

256
00:12:39.179 --> 00:12:41.279
The characters for the relationships, for the themes.

257
00:12:41.460 --> 00:12:44.639
It's so tight and so economical.

258
00:12:44.700 --> 00:12:48.179
I'm just, I was watching this episode and just blown away by how

259
00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:49.740
efficient a script it is.

260
00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:52.500
I forgot just how tight doctor who could be.

261
00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:56.039
The note that I made about it actually was that it feels like

262
00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:57.659
you're watching a 2 parter.

263
00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:00.419
It feels has that epic feel.

264
00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:03.480
And as you said, it's economical and yet it can all be done in 45

265
00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:04.019
minutes.

266
00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:04.799
It's amazing.

267
00:13:04.860 --> 00:13:07.440
Yeah. without feeling rushed.

268
00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:10.500
That was sort of the big theory they were trying to prove with

269
00:13:10.500 --> 00:13:11.519
this series, isn't it?

270
00:13:11.580 --> 00:13:14.340
They suddenly ditch the serialisation, ditch the 2 partners.

271
00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:17.340
This is the 1st companion departure to this point in the new

272
00:13:17.340 --> 00:13:18.840
series that is a one-parter.

273
00:13:18.899 --> 00:13:22.740
And I remember going into it at the time thinking, oh, but they're

274
00:13:22.740 --> 00:13:23.159
my favourites.

275
00:13:23.220 --> 00:13:25.799
I'm so sad that they only get one part when everyone else got 2 to

276
00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:26.460
say goodbye.

277
00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:29.100
And then it makes every 2nd count.

278
00:13:29.460 --> 00:13:33.419
Yeah, yeah, it's really quite extraordinary, isn't it?

279
00:13:33.539 --> 00:13:39.600
And it's really quite quick that we get into the idea that there's

280
00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:40.919
an inevitability here.

281
00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:46.080
The moment that, like, Rory goes off to get coffee, mainly to

282
00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:51.000
avoid having to tell Amy that, yes, she, yeah, that's right.

283
00:13:51.299 --> 00:13:55.019
And the doctor rips out the last page of the book. ending.

284
00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:56.159
Yeah, yeah.

285
00:13:56.220 --> 00:13:56.639
Yeah.

286
00:13:56.700 --> 00:14:02.100
You know, and intercut with Rory and the little cherubs.

287
00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:03.299
Walking through the park.

288
00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:08.700
You know, it is, as you said, so efficient and every single line.

289
00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:10.620
Like, you know, I hate endings.

290
00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:12.480
It's foreshadowing what's about to happen.

291
00:14:12.539 --> 00:14:13.679
It's just so clever.

292
00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:18.960
So he gets taken back in time by the angels, which is a thing that

293
00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:21.539
they weren't doing in their last proper appearance.

294
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:24.659
They were just kind of snapping people's necks and stuff, weren't

295
00:14:24.659 --> 00:14:24.779
they?

296
00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:28.860
And here the angels...

297
00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:33.360
When the angels 1st appear, they're about the brevity of life and

298
00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:37.500
about how quickly death comes.

299
00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:41.039
And that's why they're weeping angels because they're the statues

300
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:42.779
that appear on a tombstone.

301
00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:46.740
That's why the episode's called blink, not just because you can't

302
00:14:46.740 --> 00:14:51.360
blink in front of the angels, but because you blink and suddenly

303
00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:52.019
you're old.

304
00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:54.059
Suddenly life has.

305
00:14:54.179 --> 00:14:55.860
What happened to my, where did my life?

306
00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:59.340
Yeah, yeah. when Lewis Mahoney is looking at his hands and saying

307
00:14:59.340 --> 00:15:01.080
I suddenly have old man hands.

308
00:15:01.139 --> 00:15:02.100
When did that happen?

309
00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:10.139
Here, I think the angels are a complex thing about inevitability

310
00:15:10.139 --> 00:15:16.500
about the way that this story itself is constrained to end with

311
00:15:16.500 --> 00:15:20.460
the departure of Amy and Rory, that no matter what happens, no

312
00:15:20.460 --> 00:15:24.240
matter what they do, no matter what they try in order to get out

313
00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:24.720
of it.

314
00:15:24.779 --> 00:15:27.480
And, you know, right at the end it looks like they have got out of

315
00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:31.500
it, there's no way for this to end without them leaving.

316
00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:37.379
It's got a sort of an all good things come to an end feel to it.

317
00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:40.860
The end of TNG, all good things.

318
00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:44.279
Yes, it's all transient and life is short and, you know, all good

319
00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:47.340
things must come to an end, but there's a melancholy about it that

320
00:15:47.340 --> 00:15:48.240
runs through the hole.

321
00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:52.620
But it's not that necessarily an unpleasant melancholy, I feel.

322
00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:56.820
Even though, of course, they're flung back to 1930, whatever, I

323
00:15:56.820 --> 00:15:57.539
can ever see them again.

324
00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:00.480
Even despite that, I still feel throughout the rest of it when

325
00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:02.399
you're heading towards the inevitability of their departure.

326
00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:06.240
Your melancholic about it, but you're sort of fine with it too.

327
00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:08.039
I know.

328
00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:12.840
I've spent a lot of time in this season's episode saying that I

329
00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:17.639
wanted their story to end with them ageing out of the relationship

330
00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:23.159
and saying to the doctor, look, we're not going to come back with

331
00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:23.639
you now.

332
00:16:23.700 --> 00:16:24.960
We have this home.

333
00:16:25.019 --> 00:16:27.539
We're older, we have our friends.

334
00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:30.240
I have a job, I have responsibilities, and that's where we're

335
00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.480
heading, isn't it, in last week's episode in power of three.

336
00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:38.580
And I thought that that would be a good ending partly because I'm

337
00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:43.200
not a big fan of space reasons endings and up to this point, I

338
00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:47.519
always thought Martha's was the best ending, the fact that she

339
00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:48.779
just ends on her own terms.

340
00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:53.519
And this is a very definite space reasons ending.

341
00:16:53.580 --> 00:16:54.240
Yes.

342
00:16:54.240 --> 00:17:02.700
But I'm actually much happier with it than I thought because their

343
00:17:02.700 --> 00:17:07.380
departure leaves such a gap in the program that it actually does

344
00:17:07.380 --> 00:17:12.180
violence to the show's premise, in the sense that the doctor can

345
00:17:12.180 --> 00:17:16.980
go anywhere in time and space, but he's not allowed to go back and

346
00:17:16.980 --> 00:17:18.240
see Amy and Rory.

347
00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:20.039
And that's actually true.

348
00:17:20.099 --> 00:17:23.339
We can't now have an episode with Amy and Rory in it because

349
00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:24.839
they're not under contract anymore.

350
00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:28.559
It doesn't stop others.

351
00:17:28.619 --> 00:17:34.200
No, no, but, you know, there's that real sense in which, you know

352
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:35.579
we talked about contract roulette.

353
00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:38.940
Andrew Hodson's contract roulette, that the companion will just

354
00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:43.500
leave wherever they happen to be in the last story that the actor

355
00:17:43.500 --> 00:17:47.640
is contracted for, which is why Mel goes off with Sablon Glitz at

356
00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:48.900
the end of Dragonfire.

357
00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.720
Or Dodo goes to the country.

358
00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:53.880
Or Leila suddenly falls in.

359
00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:55.019
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

360
00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:57.599
Dodo's lucky she at least made it to Earth.

361
00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:05.220
But here there is something that the show can't do again.

362
00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:09.960
It can never ever recapture the feeling of hanging out with Amy

363
00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:11.700
Rory and River ever again.

364
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.700
There's one place that the show can never go.

365
00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:19.380
And so making that real within the programs world itself, I think

366
00:18:19.380 --> 00:18:23.519
is really good, even though I feel a bit anxious about that

367
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:24.599
limitation.

368
00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:28.559
Can't they just get on a boat and like travel to London or

369
00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:28.980
something like that?

370
00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:32.759
Actually, I actually thought that you'd be more angry about the

371
00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:34.319
fact that they don't have Wi-Fi and mobile.

372
00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:35.940
Yeah, no, I'm pissed off with that.

373
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:36.839
That's awful.

374
00:18:36.900 --> 00:18:39.240
That's surprised that you're worried about the fact that they say

375
00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:42.059
just because they say something can't possibly happen in Doctor

376
00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:42.420
Who.

377
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:44.400
It doesn't mean that later that just changed their mind to do it

378
00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:44.640
anyway.

379
00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:45.180
Yeah.

380
00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:49.380
I think what it comes down to is, uh, it's less just that New York

381
00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:52.920
is the timeline is messed up, but the fact that, again, it's about

382
00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:54.779
books and about endings in paratext.

383
00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:59.400
The parotext and the text itself is, we've read that Amy and Roy

384
00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:00.599
never see the doctor again.

385
00:19:00.660 --> 00:19:02.460
Therefore, they never see the doctor again.

386
00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:05.880
Even if the doctor manages to get back into New York, we know that

387
00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:06.420
doesn't happen.

388
00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:09.779
And I think that was partially the request of Karen Gillan, right?

389
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.180
A lot of this episode was crafted from what she wanted, which was

390
00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:14.220
like, I want to go out definitively.

391
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:15.660
I want weeping angels.

392
00:19:15.660 --> 00:19:17.099
Oh, okay.

393
00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:18.000
Those are the big pieces.

394
00:19:18.059 --> 00:19:20.279
At least I remember something about that.

395
00:19:20.339 --> 00:19:24.900
I also think the really definite thing that needs to happen and

396
00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:28.140
which does happen is that she needs to make a final choice between

397
00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:29.579
Rory and the doctor.

398
00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:31.740
And that's what it's about, yeah.

399
00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:34.140
Yeah, and it's good that that actually does happen in the end.

400
00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:38.339
In fact, the doctor's a bit horrible in that scene because he kind

401
00:19:38.339 --> 00:19:40.019
of lies to Amy.

402
00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:46.799
So Amy says, will I go back to where Rory is if the angel touches

403
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:48.599
me and the doctor says no.

404
00:19:48.660 --> 00:19:54.660
And River, who loves her parents and knows how much more important

405
00:19:54.660 --> 00:20:00.480
Rory is to Amy than the doctor is, says, no, no, just go, you go.

406
00:20:00.539 --> 00:20:03.960
And I got the impression that the doctor wasn't saying, no, you

407
00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:04.319
won't.

408
00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:07.200
It's like, we don't know. you could end up anywhere Yeah, yeah.

409
00:20:07.259 --> 00:20:09.180
And you're ever saying take a chance, yeah.

410
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:12.660
Yeah, yeah, yeah. he is trying to discourage her from going.

411
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:14.700
Because there's too big a risk, yeah.

412
00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:15.240
Yeah, yeah.

413
00:20:15.299 --> 00:20:20.579
No, because he wants her and is happy to have her even if she

414
00:20:20.579 --> 00:20:21.720
doesn't get to have Rory.

415
00:20:21.779 --> 00:20:25.019
It's consistent with a doctor at the end of the chase, saying that

416
00:20:25.019 --> 00:20:25.980
he doesn't want to eat in bar.

417
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:27.059
Yeah, because it's too big a risk.

418
00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:30.420
Well, because he's selfish and he's a man child, you know.

419
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:33.299
And that's basically all he gets to do in this episode.

420
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:35.940
He's kind of impotent the whole episode.

421
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:39.960
Everyone else's actions drive the pot while he just tries to beg

422
00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:40.740
them not to do them.

423
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:41.759
Yeah.

424
00:20:41.819 --> 00:20:45.359
But it's also consistent with when Amy and Rory jump off the

425
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:45.660
building.

426
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:46.920
He calls out after Amy.

427
00:20:46.980 --> 00:20:48.539
He says nothing about Rory at all.

428
00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.680
Like Rory's always, well, in my head anyway, always like a

429
00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:54.539
secondary thought after Amy.

430
00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:58.200
But back to what you're saying, like, with the doctor saying no to

431
00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:01.680
River, like, you know, Shishona knows that Amy will go back to

432
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:05.400
Rory, if we go back to the beginning where Rory gets taken, it's

433
00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:08.519
very convenient that he suddenly just, it just happens to go to

434
00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:09.359
Melody Malone.

435
00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:10.619
Do you know what I mean?

436
00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:13.920
Like, it's very efficient and very convenient, right?

437
00:21:13.980 --> 00:21:16.980
Because we've got a one-part story, not a two-part story.

438
00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:17.700
Exactly.

439
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:19.140
It's storytelling logic.

440
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.319
It's a story rather than a series of events that happen to

441
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:25.440
imaginary people, and that's Moffatt's approach all the time.

442
00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:29.759
So he couldn't go back to somewhere that didn't have some kind of

443
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:31.079
relevance to him, I think.

444
00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:31.920
Of course.

445
00:21:31.980 --> 00:21:32.400
Yeah.

446
00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:36.059
Yes, the space reasons would be rivers tracking him or something

447
00:21:36.059 --> 00:21:38.519
tracking the time anomalies or whatever.

448
00:21:38.579 --> 00:21:39.839
River knows all the space reasons.

449
00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:42.599
Or the fact that they are father and daughter.

450
00:21:42.660 --> 00:21:45.960
So time is dragging him towards her, do you know what I mean?

451
00:21:46.019 --> 00:21:47.220
Yeah, he's a cause of her.

452
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:48.720
You know, they're linked.

453
00:21:48.779 --> 00:21:51.359
But I just love the way the doctor reads Hollow River.

454
00:21:51.420 --> 00:21:53.579
And then it's like, there he is.

455
00:22:07.259 --> 00:22:12.539
Speaking of the Rory River dynamic, I think this episode's really

456
00:22:12.539 --> 00:22:15.119
one thing that makes it special for me is it's the one time we

457
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:18.299
really get to see Amy Rory and River as an actual family, knowing

458
00:22:18.299 --> 00:22:20.880
where they stand with each other, and you get a lot of little

459
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:24.299
moments with that, just little beats, like, there's the one moment

460
00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:27.960
where, uh, the doctor and River have the fight about the wrist

461
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:31.799
breaking, and Amy immediately chooses Riverside and goes after her

462
00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:35.279
instead of after the doctor, where in past, she would always stand

463
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:35.940
with the doctor.

464
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:39.480
Like, there's that sense of growth away from the doctor into her

465
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:40.319
family that I really love.

466
00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:46.500
Even at the very end where she says to a river to be a good girl

467
00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:51.599
and to look after the doctor for her, you know, that's her being

468
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:52.319
mum.

469
00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:57.180
But it's also the 1st episode where the doctor and river are

470
00:22:57.180 --> 00:22:59.880
unambiguously husband and wife as well.

471
00:22:59.940 --> 00:23:03.660
And so the interesting thing about this episode is you have 2

472
00:23:03.660 --> 00:23:10.319
married couples and you get to see these 2 marriage relationships

473
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:13.319
driving the way that they behave.

474
00:23:13.380 --> 00:23:16.200
And there's even that the line about creating the future

475
00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:16.799
together.

476
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.819
Changing the future, that's called marriage, and it's applied to

477
00:23:20.819 --> 00:23:23.700
both of them marriages, like to both relationships.

478
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:25.500
I think it's terribly good.

479
00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:28.859
I mean, people always talk about drama being driven by triangles

480
00:23:28.859 --> 00:23:31.680
and um, Kitfoil and all that.

481
00:23:31.740 --> 00:23:34.500
This is such an episode where you can see Moffatt's sitcom

482
00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:36.720
experience with that, just coming to full force.

483
00:23:36.779 --> 00:23:40.079
It's not a sitcom episode by any means, but you can see that focus

484
00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:43.140
on contrasting relationships, contrasting dynamics building the

485
00:23:43.140 --> 00:23:43.980
drama at every turn.

486
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:45.119
It works really well.

487
00:23:45.180 --> 00:23:46.200
Yeah.

488
00:23:46.259 --> 00:23:49.559
I've said over and over again that Moffat's sitcom experience is

489
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:53.220
an absolute asset to writing Doctor Who, because Doctor Who is

490
00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:59.039
melodrama, and it requires characters that are well-defined.

491
00:23:59.099 --> 00:24:00.900
We know how Rory is going to react.

492
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:02.640
We know how Amy's going to react.

493
00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:04.859
We know how river's going to react.

494
00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:09.480
We know them as people, and they behave in predictable ways, and

495
00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:12.960
then the thing is to bounce them off each other and see what you

496
00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:13.680
discover.

497
00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:18.539
So absolutely, I think just the strength of these characters

498
00:24:18.539 --> 00:24:19.740
they're so well drawn.

499
00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:23.400
We know them so well that putting them together in these different

500
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:28.380
situations and having them behave in response to various things is

501
00:24:28.380 --> 00:24:29.819
absolutely what we want to see.

502
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:31.200
It's a real strength.

503
00:24:31.259 --> 00:24:32.400
I agree.

504
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:41.039
Shall we talk about the angels?

505
00:24:41.220 --> 00:24:43.079
Yes, let's.

506
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:47.819
You were talking earlier about how they're sort of, in blank, they

507
00:24:47.819 --> 00:24:51.480
are very much one thing, the inevitability of time and age, and

508
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:55.500
then, and they're two-parter with the doctor and Amy.

509
00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:57.480
It's very a different thing.

510
00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:01.079
They're more the aliens approach where they are the evil monsters

511
00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:01.740
who kill you.

512
00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:05.460
And this is, I feel I feel like quite consciously, I know in the

513
00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:08.220
asylum of the Daleks podcast, you were talking about how Moffatt

514
00:25:08.220 --> 00:25:11.279
always reacts to what he did previously and tweaks in response.

515
00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:15.900
I think he looked back at the Angels 2 parter in the series 5 and

516
00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:18.900
went, okay, I've gone a bit far from what they originally started

517
00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:19.200
with.

518
00:25:19.259 --> 00:25:22.319
Let's go back and explore the original ideas I didn't really get

519
00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:22.740
into.

520
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:26.220
So like their plot of the battery farm is very much their original

521
00:25:26.220 --> 00:25:27.480
concept is taken further.

522
00:25:27.539 --> 00:25:30.720
All the different statues are very much just the end of blank, but

523
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:31.440
taken further.

524
00:25:31.500 --> 00:25:34.799
It's going back to its roots and then just saying, okay, what if

525
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:36.000
we explore that avenue now?

526
00:25:36.900 --> 00:25:39.779
There's that sense of constraint.

527
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:45.119
You know, like once you, at the beginning of blink, once Sally

528
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:49.980
receives the letter from Kathy saying that she's lived a long life

529
00:25:49.980 --> 00:25:54.539
then that's it, we know that Kathy can't be rescued because we

530
00:25:54.539 --> 00:25:56.339
already know how this ends.

531
00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:00.420
So that idea of inevitability of narrative inevitability is

532
00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:01.980
already present in blink.

533
00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:06.359
And, you know, it's the same thing with the Lewis Mahoney

534
00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:06.900
character.

535
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:09.119
Pretty Billy Shipton.

536
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:10.140
Yeah, yeah.

537
00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:14.099
When they end up in the graveyard after trying to land in New York

538
00:26:14.099 --> 00:26:15.240
in 1938.

539
00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:20.819
And then Amy reads ahead, like once we know what's coming, it's

540
00:26:20.819 --> 00:26:21.180
fixed.

541
00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:22.980
You know, you're going to break something.

542
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:25.019
Like we know that's going to happen.

543
00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:30.960
And then we also, we, as the audience, see the grave of Rory

544
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:32.460
Arthur Williams, just the headstone.

545
00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:37.200
So again, but to what you're saying, it's an inevitability that

546
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:39.180
it's going to happen and there's no way out of it.

547
00:26:39.180 --> 00:26:42.900
And it adds to the, I don't know, the foreboding or the dread or

548
00:26:42.900 --> 00:26:44.279
the inevitability of this episode.

549
00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:47.640
I think that's just a wonderful sequence in that graveyard.

550
00:26:47.700 --> 00:26:50.039
I never thought, why are they in this graveyard, you know, what is

551
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:50.279
it?

552
00:26:50.339 --> 00:26:50.819
You know?

553
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:54.359
And then, of course, everything Stephen does is for an absolute

554
00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:54.839
reason.

555
00:26:54.900 --> 00:26:58.500
Well, he says there's some causal relationship or something that's

556
00:26:58.500 --> 00:26:59.640
perhaps bringing them there.

557
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:03.240
And we see the gravestone the 1st time.

558
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:05.880
At the end of the scene, the 1st time they're in that graveyard

559
00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:10.319
and we see it just with Rory's name on it.

560
00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:12.660
It doesn't have Amelia on it, yeah.

561
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:13.200
Oh, okay.

562
00:27:13.619 --> 00:27:15.599
He hasn't panned out.

563
00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:16.559
Yeah, yeah.

564
00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:17.460
But it is clever.

565
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:20.880
So for us, we've read it. know that it has to end this way.

566
00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:25.019
And the other terribly clever thing is they finally take the idea

567
00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:28.920
of a angel statue to its inevitable place of you see them all the

568
00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:29.880
time in graveyards.

569
00:27:29.940 --> 00:27:32.819
So you see that looming over the graveyard and every shot and

570
00:27:32.819 --> 00:27:35.279
you're like, is that an angel or are they just playing with the

571
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:35.759
imagery?

572
00:27:35.819 --> 00:27:39.660
And of course it turns out to be an angel, but it leaves you with

573
00:27:39.660 --> 00:27:40.440
just enough doubt.

574
00:27:40.980 --> 00:27:45.900
I also think that the cherubs are incredibly gray.

575
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:48.240
And they're heaps different.

576
00:27:48.299 --> 00:27:52.200
We do hear the sound of beating wings in Murray's music for the

577
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:56.279
angels in blink, but I don't think we have sort of diagetic

578
00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:57.119
beating wings.

579
00:27:57.180 --> 00:27:58.319
And here we do.

580
00:27:58.380 --> 00:28:01.019
So we have little flapping wings and giggling and stuff.

581
00:28:01.019 --> 00:28:04.799
And it's completely different from the angels who have no voice in

582
00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:05.460
blink.

583
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:06.839
We don't hear from them at all.

584
00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:08.279
It's so disturbing.

585
00:28:08.339 --> 00:28:10.859
And I just, I mean, the sequence where that one blows out the

586
00:28:10.859 --> 00:28:11.940
match.

587
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:13.559
Fantastic.

588
00:28:13.619 --> 00:28:14.400
So good.

589
00:28:14.460 --> 00:28:15.720
Very unsettling.

590
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:18.299
Yeah.

591
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:20.279
I mean, that's the thing with Moffat.

592
00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:22.619
He never lets himself get bored with a monster.

593
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:25.019
He has to keep trying a new trick out with them.

594
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:29.519
And so that this episode is just, I mean, he doesn't necessarily

595
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:32.759
extend out the new trick beyond where to be welcome, but the

596
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:36.180
cherubs are a great single scene menace where you get that scene

597
00:28:36.180 --> 00:28:39.839
in the cellar, you just get to go get in, pay off the idea of just

598
00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:42.119
how creepy they are, get right out.

599
00:28:42.180 --> 00:28:43.680
Rory's been zapped away.

600
00:28:43.740 --> 00:28:44.279
It's great.

601
00:28:44.339 --> 00:28:52.259
I think too, that you 2 were dissing the idea that the Statue of

602
00:28:52.259 --> 00:28:53.579
Liberty could be an angel.

603
00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:56.880
But I have to say, how could you not do that?

604
00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:01.259
You said it in New York, there's a giant, giant statue there.

605
00:29:01.380 --> 00:29:02.579
I wasn't dissing it.

606
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:03.900
I actually think it's fantastic.

607
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:06.960
It's one of those things where it doesn't have to make sense

608
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:08.940
because it's too much fun not to do it.

609
00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:09.779
Yeah.

610
00:29:09.779 --> 00:29:13.799
No, no, that's where, unfortunately, the breaks the formats for

611
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:14.039
me.

612
00:29:14.099 --> 00:29:16.440
I think you can make the Statue of Liberty and Angel, but I don't

613
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:18.420
think you can make the Statue of Liberty and Angel the way they

614
00:29:18.420 --> 00:29:18.779
did it.

615
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:20.160
Oh, so good.

616
00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:22.319
That step too far for me, I'm afraid.

617
00:29:22.380 --> 00:29:22.980
It's a shame.

618
00:29:23.099 --> 00:29:25.440
How good is Arthur Darfel's delivery of?

619
00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:27.539
I always wanted to see the Statue of Liberty.

620
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:28.619
I guess she got impatient.

621
00:29:29.579 --> 00:29:33.660
When Ghana is doing the voiceover at the very beginning, we get a

622
00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:38.160
shot of the Statue of Liberty in situ as he's describing the

623
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:38.759
statues.

624
00:29:38.819 --> 00:29:42.420
And so it's not supposed to be a surprise.

625
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:45.660
It's supposed to be inevitable as well.

626
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:51.779
And Moffatt knows full well that it's impossible for the Statue of

627
00:29:51.779 --> 00:29:53.339
Liberty to get there unobserved.

628
00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:57.720
He actually describes New York or refers to New York. as the city

629
00:29:57.720 --> 00:29:58.619
that never sleeps.

630
00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:01.200
Like it's in the dialogue.

631
00:30:01.259 --> 00:30:02.460
So he doesn't care.

632
00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:10.259
He just and he's aware that it's just too incredible a visual to

633
00:30:10.259 --> 00:30:14.160
allow something like narrative plausibility to ruin it.

634
00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:16.619
I mean, he did have an explanation though, didn't he?

635
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:19.680
It was something about the angels had such complete control over

636
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:20.700
the city at that point.

637
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:22.140
They could just direct people to look away.

638
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:24.359
I mean, sure.

639
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:28.440
It would be so boring if they actually said that in the episode.

640
00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:29.099
Who cares?

641
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:31.200
Oh, right, I see what you made, right?

642
00:30:31.259 --> 00:30:31.859
Yes, yes.

643
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:33.779
It would be boring if they did that on the inside. absolutely

644
00:30:33.779 --> 00:30:34.019
right.

645
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:36.240
Sorry, I agree with Nathan.

646
00:30:36.299 --> 00:30:38.819
I just love the fact that he does say it's a city that never

647
00:30:38.819 --> 00:30:40.619
sleeps and, well, here it is.

648
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:44.519
So if you can't deal with that in your brain, like all the time

649
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:48.059
travel logic of me, well, bad luck. just have to live with it.

650
00:30:48.180 --> 00:30:51.180
It's probably more relevant to the story than the Chrysler

651
00:30:51.180 --> 00:30:53.279
building being in completely the wrong place most of the time.

652
00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:57.900
It's like it's like they're down at the bottom end of Manhattan

653
00:30:57.900 --> 00:31:00.359
and the Chrysler Building seems to only be about 6 or 7 blocks

654
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:00.539
away.

655
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:05.099
Yeah, but it's like every hotel room in France has the Eiffel

656
00:31:05.099 --> 00:31:05.400
Tower.

657
00:31:05.460 --> 00:31:06.240
Yeah, yeah.

658
00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:08.940
Maybe the Chrysler Building's just also an angel.

659
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:12.059
Yeah, just moves about the city, depending on the time of night.

660
00:31:12.539 --> 00:31:17.880
And of course, we've got Grail's Angel, which is all up in locked

661
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:21.839
up in chains, screaming. screaming that the others can hear.

662
00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:25.019
Like, I just find that really creepy.

663
00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:27.299
Yeah, it's super terrifying, isn't it?

664
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:29.880
He's quite good, I think.

665
00:31:29.940 --> 00:31:34.019
I don't think he's as scary in the show as he is on paper.

666
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:38.039
I think he's probably meant to be scarier than he ends up being.

667
00:31:38.099 --> 00:31:39.900
The bloke with the house.

668
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:41.220
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

669
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:44.519
Yeah, I think he's actually probably the weakest, weakest point of

670
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:45.480
the whole episode, actually.

671
00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:48.960
I don't find the performance, particularly compelling.

672
00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:50.579
Yeah, maybe that's the problem.

673
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:54.299
And possibly because he's just so much less good than everybody

674
00:31:54.299 --> 00:31:54.660
else.

675
00:31:54.720 --> 00:31:55.440
Yeah.

676
00:31:55.500 --> 00:31:57.720
And he's unconscious for all the best bits as well.

677
00:31:57.779 --> 00:32:00.059
It's kind of like, oh, he's fainted, he'll be fine.

678
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:02.880
And we don't need to have him in this scene.

679
00:32:02.940 --> 00:32:04.559
And where do all of his guards go?

680
00:32:04.619 --> 00:32:08.039
And, you know, they do just leave the door open so all the angels

681
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:09.480
can get in and deal with them, I guess.

682
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:13.799
I mean, he's just a plot contrivance and a genre fixture to get

683
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:16.500
the characters from A to B and get the stylings in place.

684
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:18.660
And I think that works for it.

685
00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:19.619
You're absolutely right.

686
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:21.000
He's not the best performance in it.

687
00:32:21.059 --> 00:32:23.099
He's not very memorable.

688
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:25.619
But I like how the characters respond to him.

689
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:28.980
Rivers, tete a tete with him or whatever you want to call it, where

690
00:32:28.980 --> 00:32:30.839
she faces off with him is great.

691
00:32:30.900 --> 00:32:32.039
Yes, absolutely.

692
00:32:32.099 --> 00:32:37.319
It's great seeing her pre-husbands of her her song in her middle

693
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:38.519
of one of her adventures.

694
00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:39.839
Yeah.

695
00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:45.960
You know, we've in the past talked about how indebted morphities

696
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:54.000
to Douglas Adams, and there is that wonderful moment where he nips

697
00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:01.380
back in time to China, to get Yowza written on the vase. fake.

698
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:06.779
And it is exactly the same thing that happens in Dirk Gently's

699
00:33:06.779 --> 00:33:10.559
holistic detective agency where Chronotis nips off in the middle

700
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:17.220
of a high table dinner to go back in time to get someone to bake a

701
00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:22.079
salt cellar from the table into a pot that he has with him.

702
00:33:22.140 --> 00:33:26.759
So in order to do a magic trick where he makes...

703
00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:30.180
And it's exactly the same thing. going back in time to find the

704
00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:35.940
guy who created the bit of porcelain or whatever, uh, in order to

705
00:33:35.940 --> 00:33:40.019
send a message in order to make it possible for him to land.

706
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:44.279
But isn't that such a wonderfully clever use of the format in a

707
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:47.579
way that, you know, as we're recording, this legend of the sea

708
00:33:47.579 --> 00:33:49.680
devils is but a week old.

709
00:33:49.740 --> 00:33:55.980
And it does it really terribly when the doctor and Yaz go back to

710
00:33:55.980 --> 00:33:56.579
is it Yaz?

711
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:59.579
Yes, go back to the ship and see the past.

712
00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:02.519
To see the past briefly just for a bit of exposition.

713
00:34:02.579 --> 00:34:04.680
In the defensive legend of the sea devils.

714
00:34:04.740 --> 00:34:09.000
Careful with it, in terms of limitations with Moffatt's era.

715
00:34:09.059 --> 00:34:10.739
That's all we see of China.

716
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:11.280
That's it.

717
00:34:11.340 --> 00:34:15.059
We get a quick one scene gag and then we're back to the white

718
00:34:15.059 --> 00:34:15.360
people.

719
00:34:15.420 --> 00:34:18.059
That's one thing I have to give to Chipnell.

720
00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:20.639
He does better than that. that's true.

721
00:34:20.699 --> 00:34:23.159
But in terms of using it in an interesting, in an interesting

722
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:23.519
way.

723
00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:25.079
It's so much interesting fun.

724
00:34:25.139 --> 00:34:26.579
No contest.

725
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:27.239
Yes.

726
00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:32.159
And if I can just extend on that, generally speaking, the timey

727
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:36.119
whiminess of this episode, and I know that the timey whiminess was

728
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:39.599
always a criticism back in the day of the Moffat era, people were

729
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:42.239
whinging about the fact that, oh, it's so confusing, no, no one's

730
00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:42.900
going to understand it.

731
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:44.400
There's all these going back and forth in time.

732
00:34:44.460 --> 00:34:47.639
I remember that, I don't know how real that was, or whether it was

733
00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:51.360
just a couple of people having a whinge, but I found it so well

734
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:53.519
done in this episode, at least.

735
00:34:53.579 --> 00:34:54.599
Everything fits together.

736
00:34:54.659 --> 00:34:57.539
It all means what it needs to mean, and there are no sort of

737
00:34:57.539 --> 00:34:58.980
bizarre internal contradictions.

738
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:00.239
It doesn't create any at least.

739
00:35:00.300 --> 00:35:01.800
Simon I am not a couple of people.

740
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:04.559
I'm referring to you.

741
00:35:05.579 --> 00:35:08.400
I mean, I meant, you know, the great unwashed.

742
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:10.380
I also watch.

743
00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:12.119
Indeed.

744
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:13.619
So I can't have possibly been referring to you.

745
00:35:13.739 --> 00:35:16.860
Oh no, look, I have various episodes where it does do my head in

746
00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:18.480
but in this particular one.

747
00:35:18.539 --> 00:35:22.559
It's just absolutely perfect in all of the jumps around.

748
00:35:22.619 --> 00:35:27.119
I mean, I do wonder like, you know, again, when Rory does get sent

749
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:28.800
to the key.

750
00:35:28.860 --> 00:35:30.239
Like he's actually not in the building.

751
00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:31.079
He's outside.

752
00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:34.440
And so I kind of go, oh, so he's drawn into it.

753
00:35:34.500 --> 00:35:35.639
Do you know what I mean?

754
00:35:35.699 --> 00:35:38.639
Like I kind of go, why aren't you just right at the steps?

755
00:35:38.699 --> 00:35:39.840
Yeah.

756
00:35:39.900 --> 00:35:40.679
You know?

757
00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:42.960
I mean, that's a minor thing.

758
00:35:43.019 --> 00:35:46.260
That's definitely a visual storytelling moment where it's just

759
00:35:46.260 --> 00:35:49.980
it's more compelling in a sort of nightmare dream sequence image

760
00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:53.820
where you see the scary building and you go inside and you go see

761
00:35:53.820 --> 00:35:54.539
what's inside.

762
00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:57.119
Like, I don't know why there's a little girl in the window

763
00:35:57.119 --> 00:35:58.260
covering her eyes.

764
00:35:58.320 --> 00:35:59.039
Who is that?

765
00:35:59.099 --> 00:35:59.820
What is she doing?

766
00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:00.420
I don't know.

767
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.280
But it's great visual.

768
00:36:02.340 --> 00:36:05.639
That is an incredible location, isn't it?

769
00:36:05.699 --> 00:36:07.019
So we get it at the beginning.

770
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:10.800
And so we know what's in store for Rory before we find it out

771
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:17.400
because we've had Ghana go in there and there's that wonderful

772
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:19.559
moment, isn't there, where he picks up his wallet?

773
00:36:19.619 --> 00:36:22.199
Like, where...

774
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:22.860
Yeah, yeah.

775
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:26.940
So his hat, the hat and jacket that he's wearing are hung up.

776
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:29.820
Like he's actually wearing them, but they're hung up in the

777
00:36:29.820 --> 00:36:33.420
hallway of that apartment and then he goes into the pocket and

778
00:36:33.420 --> 00:36:36.239
gets his wallet out, which is exactly the same as the wallet that

779
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:38.519
he's currently carrying, only much older.

780
00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:43.320
So we don't need to get that actor in sort of crappy ageing

781
00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:44.219
makeup.

782
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:47.099
We know that that's him in there.

783
00:36:47.159 --> 00:36:52.019
And so when we see Rory going in there, in a scene that looks the

784
00:36:52.019 --> 00:36:56.039
same as the scene at the beginning before the credits, we know

785
00:36:56.039 --> 00:36:59.639
that that's what's in store for him as well. crappy ageing

786
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:00.000
makeup?

787
00:37:00.059 --> 00:37:00.360
Yeah.

788
00:37:00.420 --> 00:37:02.400
Yeah, they're not feeling the bed, isn't it?

789
00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:02.880
It is.

790
00:37:02.940 --> 00:37:04.619
It's not Ghana in the bed.

791
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:06.480
There's a different actor playing old Ghana.

792
00:37:06.539 --> 00:37:07.619
Yeah, yeah, we know that.

793
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:09.420
Yeah, it is definitely Raring.

794
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:10.380
Yeah, yeah.

795
00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:11.099
Yeah.

796
00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:14.699
But it is such a horrifying thought.

797
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:18.960
It's different to, you know, travelling time and meeting an older

798
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:20.340
or younger version than yourself.

799
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:24.719
It is quite a horrific thought to go to a point in time where

800
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:27.539
you're watching yourself die from old age.

801
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:31.079
It's quite sombre and unsettling for me.

802
00:37:31.139 --> 00:37:33.840
And not only that, knowing it's a life of torment living up to

803
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:34.860
that trapped in one room.

804
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:37.860
That is just, and there's nothing you can do to escape.

805
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:39.719
That is just deeply disturbing.

806
00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:44.099
And that smile on the angel at that point too is just horrific.

807
00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:49.559
I think what's really good and what's really terrifying is that we

808
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:53.039
discover that he's been in that room because is it the doctor who

809
00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:58.199
says because he was happy to see you or surprise to see you and

810
00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:02.039
that's how we know he hasn't seen Amy for 40 years or whatever.

811
00:38:02.099 --> 00:38:03.360
Yeah.

812
00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:05.280
It's really bleak.

813
00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:06.239
It's horrible.

814
00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:10.619
But that's the extension of what going back to what was being said

815
00:38:10.619 --> 00:38:14.219
earlier. extending to the ages, because in blink, some of these

816
00:38:14.219 --> 00:38:18.599
people are flung back in time and then seem to live very rich and

817
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:19.380
fulfilled life.

818
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:19.860
Yeah.

819
00:38:19.860 --> 00:38:22.500
And have families and have relationships.

820
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:25.500
Yeah, Kathy and Billy. have a wonderful relationship.

821
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:27.000
She makes the best of it.

822
00:38:27.059 --> 00:38:32.039
Whereas here, your life is effectively over and you, but you just

823
00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:33.119
got to serve out the time.

824
00:38:33.179 --> 00:38:36.239
Because it's a battery phone. that's awful Yes, that's awful.

825
00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:38.880
And can I just say how much more effective is that than the

826
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:41.940
episode more recently that totally contradicts this, which is the

827
00:38:41.940 --> 00:38:43.679
angels touching you twice, just killing you.

828
00:38:43.739 --> 00:38:47.099
I mean, that works as a cheap way out.

829
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:51.119
But how much more existentially terrifying is it to see this where

830
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:54.179
they control every moment of your life from birth to death?

831
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:55.019
don't need to kill you.

832
00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:57.239
They've got you where they want you and can just keep you there.

833
00:38:57.300 --> 00:38:59.760
That's just, that disturbs me a lot more than turning into

834
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:00.300
boulders.

835
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:03.900
Yeah, yeah, that is super terrifying, I think.

836
00:39:03.960 --> 00:39:09.300
And there is a real horrible bleakness to the story, which I think

837
00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:11.159
is magnificent.

838
00:39:11.219 --> 00:39:14.760
You know, we we talk about all the foreshadowing and all the sort

839
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:18.539
of impending fear that we have just watching this and knowing that

840
00:39:18.539 --> 00:39:21.599
it has to end with their final departure.

841
00:39:21.659 --> 00:39:28.199
But the whole setup of just a building, a horrible building that's

842
00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:32.219
under control of the angels, where you just get repeatedly sent

843
00:39:32.219 --> 00:39:37.139
back in time so that the angels can feed off you until you die.

844
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:40.320
And there's just such a delicate touch to the details of it.

845
00:39:40.380 --> 00:39:42.179
Like, how good a name is Winter Key?

846
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:45.179
That has stuck with me since I 1st saw the episode.

847
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:48.840
It's like Russell and Moffatt have a way of just throwing words

848
00:39:48.840 --> 00:39:51.780
together where it's just immediate poetry that just launches

849
00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:52.619
itself in your head.

850
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:53.400
I love that.

851
00:39:53.460 --> 00:39:55.079
It really good, isn't it?

852
00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:56.579
It's really good.

853
00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:58.019
Just the winter idea.

854
00:39:58.260 --> 00:40:00.420
It's so brilliant.

855
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:00.960
Yeah.

856
00:40:01.019 --> 00:40:03.000
Yeah, things coming to an end.

857
00:40:03.059 --> 00:40:03.659
Yeah.

858
00:40:03.719 --> 00:40:04.079
Exactly.

859
00:40:14.820 --> 00:40:20.280
And so that scene at the top of the building where Rory decides to

860
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:27.480
kill himself rather than go through that 40 years and he's been

861
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:31.320
told that there are space reasons why that will put an end to

862
00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:32.280
the...

863
00:40:32.460 --> 00:40:33.659
No, he's worked out the space reasons.

864
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:34.800
Yeah, yeah, okay.

865
00:40:34.860 --> 00:40:35.460
Yeah.

866
00:40:35.460 --> 00:40:39.300
But if he he has to, this will prevent that future from

867
00:40:39.300 --> 00:40:40.619
happening.

868
00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:47.699
And just the fact that he can't really do it, and she can't push

869
00:40:47.699 --> 00:40:52.920
him, and the solution has to be that they get up there together

870
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:55.019
and hold hands and go down together.

871
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:56.699
It's so good.

872
00:40:56.699 --> 00:40:59.519
And I was absolutely bawling my eyes out.

873
00:40:59.579 --> 00:41:01.920
Even though I've seen this so many times.

874
00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:03.480
It's so affecting.

875
00:41:03.539 --> 00:41:06.960
I was basically coding the lines back of the actors and I was

876
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:11.880
still crying. the performances of Arthur and Karen have never been

877
00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:15.659
better I just think they are absolutely stunning, yeah. in that

878
00:41:15.659 --> 00:41:16.019
moment.

879
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:19.559
Well, actually throughout this entire episode, the 4 of them are

880
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:21.539
just absolutely brilliant.

881
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:27.059
And in particular, I think Alex Kingston gets, we overlook Alex a

882
00:41:27.059 --> 00:41:31.380
lot, but she is just sublime in every delivery.

883
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:34.500
I mean, the whole relationship with the doctor, like, I just love

884
00:41:34.500 --> 00:41:38.639
the way Matt Smith, or the 11th doctor, just before he sees River

885
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:41.699
like he looks, checks the hair, the breath, the bowtie, and all

886
00:41:41.699 --> 00:41:41.940
that.

887
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:42.840
You know?

888
00:41:42.900 --> 00:41:46.500
We think he's checking for radiation and oxygen content.

889
00:41:46.500 --> 00:41:50.400
And it's not, do I look acceptable because my wife's going to be

890
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:50.639
here?

891
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:54.119
And then and just the conversations they have.

892
00:41:54.179 --> 00:41:59.280
Like together are just, oh, there's just a dynamic a spark there

893
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:02.699
that just, you know, it's coming to an end.

894
00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:06.539
It's amazing that that worked out as well as it did, isn't it?

895
00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:10.199
Because Alex Kingston is obviously cast for a David Tennant

896
00:42:10.199 --> 00:42:11.039
story.

897
00:42:11.099 --> 00:42:16.260
And then, you know, she's in the 1st story that Matt ever shoots

898
00:42:16.260 --> 00:42:20.400
and they absolutely click immediately.

899
00:42:20.699 --> 00:42:22.559
It's surprising.

900
00:42:22.619 --> 00:42:25.619
It's almost like Elizabeth Slade and Tom B. Yeah, yeah.

901
00:42:25.619 --> 00:42:27.659
You have to keep remembering, oh, that's right.

902
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:29.639
No, she was actually cast to be with John Pertwee.

903
00:42:29.699 --> 00:42:32.400
And yet the relationship is just extraordinary.

904
00:42:32.460 --> 00:42:36.659
Yeah, I mean, that story is basically the story of the 11th doctor

905
00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:38.099
whatever big finish might do.

906
00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:42.599
And the 2 of them just work magnificently well together.

907
00:42:42.659 --> 00:42:47.219
And particularly the fact that she is, you know, overtly sexy and

908
00:42:47.219 --> 00:42:52.199
confident and he is kind of inept and fumbling and not good at any

909
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:53.460
of that sort of stuff at all.

910
00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:56.699
It works so terrifically well.

911
00:42:56.940 --> 00:43:01.440
It's definitely a, I think, I mean, I look back at this as the

912
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:03.599
sort of the golden age of the modern show.

913
00:43:03.659 --> 00:43:05.820
Yeah, maybe I do too.

914
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:08.219
Only no, I do.

915
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:09.960
And I think, especially in terms of popularity.

916
00:43:10.019 --> 00:43:12.480
This was the peak, especially internationally.

917
00:43:12.539 --> 00:43:15.119
This is when people in the US started really getting into this

918
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:15.420
show.

919
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:17.579
This storyline, this doctor, this team.

920
00:43:17.639 --> 00:43:20.280
That was Doctor Who at its biggest.

921
00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:24.719
And I think, especially because the 50th was coming up, and

922
00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:29.460
especially because the next run that becomes a bit more

923
00:43:29.460 --> 00:43:29.940
difficult.

924
00:43:30.059 --> 00:43:34.440
This is really sort of an apex moment and it's saying goodbye to

925
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:36.000
so much of what's been making the show work.

926
00:43:36.300 --> 00:43:40.320
I mean, that's part of why I cry on top of just how good it is.

927
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:43.019
Just watching that come to an end is a lot.

928
00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:44.159
Yeah.

929
00:43:44.219 --> 00:43:44.760
Yeah.

930
00:43:45.179 --> 00:43:48.420
I might say something controversial here.

931
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:50.639
This is the peak for Matt Smith for me.

932
00:43:50.699 --> 00:43:52.380
I've been watching the 2nd half of the season.

933
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:55.860
I don't want to say he's going through the motions, but I do find

934
00:43:55.860 --> 00:43:57.300
in the 2nd half of the season.

935
00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:01.139
He's spinning on his heels a lot more and having to do a lot more

936
00:44:01.139 --> 00:44:03.599
heavy lifting because he doesn't have this team around him.

937
00:44:03.659 --> 00:44:05.159
Like there's something to do with the character.

938
00:44:05.219 --> 00:44:06.599
This is what I'm discovering.

939
00:44:06.659 --> 00:44:10.079
I just really think that this is the peak for me for him after

940
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:10.380
this.

941
00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:14.639
I think this is controversial going into going ahead, but I don't

942
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:15.840
quite like him as much.

943
00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:18.000
Maybe it's the characters.

944
00:44:18.059 --> 00:44:21.480
Yeah, see, I mean, I originally thought the peak as the end of the

945
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:24.059
last season, but now having to watch these last five.

946
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:27.719
I mean, obviously, you know, the Doctor, the Widow, and the

947
00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:34.079
Wardrobe is a terrible Nadir of the show. are actually much better

948
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:36.059
than and hold together much better than I thought.

949
00:44:36.119 --> 00:44:38.940
But my memory was from here and I haven't yet watched the rest of

950
00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:39.239
the season.

951
00:44:39.300 --> 00:44:43.260
My memory was from here, his performance starts to become almost

952
00:44:43.260 --> 00:44:44.460
like a parody of itself.

953
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:44.940
Yeah.

954
00:44:44.940 --> 00:44:48.659
And all the things that made it great are still there, but they're

955
00:44:48.659 --> 00:44:51.000
you're kind of right, they're not quite there in the same way.

956
00:44:51.059 --> 00:44:53.400
And I think it's because he's not bouncing off the same people.

957
00:44:53.460 --> 00:44:56.579
Great as Jenna is, and she's superb, we've already said that, but

958
00:44:56.579 --> 00:44:57.840
it's not just that.

959
00:44:57.900 --> 00:45:00.719
It's also the way the episodes, I think, are.

960
00:45:01.139 --> 00:45:02.519
Yeah Don't get me wrong.

961
00:45:02.579 --> 00:45:03.900
I think he's absolutely brilliant.

962
00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:07.500
But I mean, we got tired of tenant in that last little bit of the

963
00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:08.039
run, right?

964
00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:09.300
When we're watching it.

965
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:11.039
Well, no, no, no.

966
00:45:11.099 --> 00:45:13.739
We had criticisms, but in particular it was heightened towards the

967
00:45:13.739 --> 00:45:13.920
end.

968
00:45:13.980 --> 00:45:16.800
You know, you look at you look perhaps at John Perchby in the

969
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:19.019
classic, you can see that he's tired towards you.

970
00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:21.239
And so phoning it in a bit.

971
00:45:21.300 --> 00:45:23.880
But here it's just everything is working on, you compare

972
00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:25.440
everything to this, right?

973
00:45:25.500 --> 00:45:26.579
That's what I'm trying to say.

974
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:32.340
And his dynamic with Alex Kingston is, as I, well, I'm just back

975
00:45:32.340 --> 00:45:32.760
to it again.

976
00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:34.139
It just works so well.

977
00:45:34.139 --> 00:45:35.820
And she will be missed.

978
00:45:35.820 --> 00:45:39.000
And it's great that she is, you know, in one more episode, but

979
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:40.320
it's like such a closure.

980
00:45:40.380 --> 00:45:41.940
Everything is getting close.

981
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:46.019
So you're mourning for that, yeah, as well as Amy and Rory.

982
00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:47.639
I can only agree.

983
00:45:47.699 --> 00:45:49.739
Matt is my all-time favourite doctor.

984
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:51.780
I think he's one of the best people to ever be in the role.

985
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:55.920
And I think in the next half of the series, he just sort of loses

986
00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:56.460
the map.

987
00:45:56.519 --> 00:46:01.320
I think you can tell the actor, Matt Smith, the man is lonely.

988
00:46:01.380 --> 00:46:03.179
He misses his friends and he feels lost.

989
00:46:03.300 --> 00:46:06.119
And I don't think he ever quite builds that rapport with Jenna.

990
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:09.300
I think either he needed to leave around the same time as the

991
00:46:09.300 --> 00:46:12.599
pawns or he needed to stay another series to get his bearings

992
00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:16.440
again because leaving after this awkward half series just sort of

993
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:20.280
leaves him going from the show at a point when it feels like the

994
00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:23.099
show's already moved on past him and it's an awkward feeling.

995
00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:28.320
I think the season 11 analogy is the right one where you have all

996
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:32.340
of these people who Pertwee has been bouncing off, you know, Katie

997
00:46:32.340 --> 00:46:38.280
and Roger have gone and he's a bit at sea and he doesn't quite

998
00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:39.539
know what to do.

999
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:45.179
And I think I noticed as soon as Rings of Ackerton that his big

1000
00:46:45.179 --> 00:46:50.159
giant speech seems to have been written as a speech for Matt to do

1001
00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:51.840
Matt things in.

1002
00:46:51.900 --> 00:46:58.380
And it's much better, I think, to give Matt just things to do and

1003
00:46:58.380 --> 00:47:00.420
then see what interesting things he does with them.

1004
00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:01.500
Great.

1005
00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:04.920
And yes, the writing, the writing starts to be trying to write for

1006
00:47:04.920 --> 00:47:05.820
the quirks.

1007
00:47:05.880 --> 00:47:09.659
Yeah. and the quirks just coming out of his performance.

1008
00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:10.739
Yeah, yeah.

1009
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:11.519
Yeah.

1010
00:47:11.579 --> 00:47:13.559
We do digress.

1011
00:47:13.619 --> 00:47:16.440
One thing I wanted to say, and we've been talking about this

1012
00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:21.000
earlier. is all about the fact that Stephen came up with this

1013
00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:23.400
plotline where the doctor was sort of deleting himself from

1014
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:24.659
history.

1015
00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:27.659
And again, it's touched on here when he's talking to River and she

1016
00:47:27.659 --> 00:47:30.900
says, turns out the person I killed never exists.

1017
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:31.920
Never exist.

1018
00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:34.500
And I just noticed that like this time too.

1019
00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:38.099
I went, okay, so he's still been deleted from history, but when

1020
00:47:38.099 --> 00:47:39.179
are we going to drop that?

1021
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:40.739
Still, it's still...

1022
00:47:40.739 --> 00:47:41.880
Pretty much from here on.

1023
00:47:41.940 --> 00:47:42.539
Yeah.

1024
00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:46.079
I actually think there are a few things in the 2nd half that pick

1025
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:46.500
up on that.

1026
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:50.519
I mean, that would be going into a different episode, but I mean

1027
00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:54.000
one of the musical cues from name of the doctor is called I am

1028
00:47:54.000 --> 00:47:55.440
Information to throw that out there.

1029
00:47:55.500 --> 00:47:59.400
I love that exchange because then River then turns around and says

1030
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:00.840
didn't you used to be someone?

1031
00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:04.320
That's great.

1032
00:48:04.380 --> 00:48:07.980
Oh, there's so many good lines in it and the delivery of the

1033
00:48:07.980 --> 00:48:08.340
most.

1034
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:10.139
Yeah. beautiful thrown away.

1035
00:48:10.199 --> 00:48:13.559
As I said before about when we're doing the Angels 2 parter is the

1036
00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:15.659
beauty of so many of those great lines, you see, they're just

1037
00:48:15.659 --> 00:48:16.139
thrown away.

1038
00:48:16.199 --> 00:48:19.440
Yeah, yeah. full subtle light and they're not, they're not chewed

1039
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:22.320
on. which is what a previous doctor might have done.

1040
00:48:22.380 --> 00:48:23.760
That's true.

1041
00:48:23.820 --> 00:48:26.280
And Matt's performance going back to it.

1042
00:48:26.340 --> 00:48:30.000
When he sees Amelia's last farewell and how angry he gets.

1043
00:48:30.059 --> 00:48:34.079
It's, I think, just perfectly pitched and delivered.

1044
00:48:34.139 --> 00:48:37.440
It's not for David Tennant over the top scenario.

1045
00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:39.840
It affects you so much seeing him so affected.

1046
00:48:39.900 --> 00:48:43.619
Speaking of over the top and perfectly delivered, I think the

1047
00:48:43.619 --> 00:48:46.440
music on this episode is absolutely phenomenal.

1048
00:48:46.500 --> 00:48:49.380
Like, that's something I really miss about Murray Gold.

1049
00:48:49.380 --> 00:48:52.320
When it came to a big dramatic episode like this, he would

1050
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:55.739
suddenly throw in a number of new motifs and new themes you hadn't

1051
00:48:55.739 --> 00:48:58.380
heard before and really hit them home.

1052
00:48:58.380 --> 00:49:02.099
Like, that piece about, um, Amy and Rory on the roof.

1053
00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:05.880
It's been teased throughout series 7, but it comes to the full 4

1054
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:07.980
here and it's just an astonishing piece.

1055
00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:11.519
Yeah, yeah, I was listening to that last night, actually.

1056
00:49:11.579 --> 00:49:14.760
I think, you know, there have been times when Murray has phoned it

1057
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:20.159
in a bit, but when he's inspired and when he's pushed, I mean

1058
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:23.760
there's so much history, like among all of these characters, and

1059
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:27.780
they all have their own motifs, the doctor, Amy, and River have

1060
00:49:27.780 --> 00:49:29.519
their own musical themes.

1061
00:49:29.579 --> 00:49:34.860
And so there's things that he can do with those which aren't sort

1062
00:49:34.860 --> 00:49:37.380
of really available at other times in the show's history, I

1063
00:49:37.380 --> 00:49:37.559
think.

1064
00:49:37.619 --> 00:49:40.500
Yeah, I mean, I've said in the past that I'm not a huge fan of

1065
00:49:40.500 --> 00:49:41.159
Murray Gold.

1066
00:49:41.219 --> 00:49:43.980
I will absolutely acknowledge that he's capable of some excellent

1067
00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:44.159
work.

1068
00:49:44.219 --> 00:49:47.820
I think his problem is not necessarily his fault in that he's

1069
00:49:47.820 --> 00:49:48.960
doing absolutely every episode.

1070
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:52.920
And therefore, there are things that are less good about it and

1071
00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:53.760
there's no variety.

1072
00:49:53.820 --> 00:49:57.239
I think this is one of his best scores and I think the snowman

1073
00:49:57.239 --> 00:49:59.340
which we'll do next, is even better.

1074
00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:01.079
I think it's one of the most beautiful scores he's done.

1075
00:50:01.139 --> 00:50:03.360
I wonder how much it's got to do with a director.

1076
00:50:03.420 --> 00:50:06.179
We've said that this director is a particularly good director.

1077
00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:09.420
I think maybe he's just one of those people who needs to be pushed

1078
00:50:09.420 --> 00:50:10.800
or directed or whatever the word.

1079
00:50:10.860 --> 00:50:14.639
I don't know how that relationship works in the modern duration of

1080
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:19.800
the show. and how much of the musical choices are Moffatt's

1081
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:22.139
direction, the showrunner's direction versus the director's

1082
00:50:22.139 --> 00:50:22.500
direction.

1083
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:23.699
But yeah, definitely.

1084
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:26.699
I think from this, I suspect it's the director.

1085
00:50:26.820 --> 00:50:29.159
Yeah, I suspect it's not Moffatt.

1086
00:50:29.219 --> 00:50:32.579
I think that one of the reasons that Moffat goes with Murray is

1087
00:50:32.579 --> 00:50:36.539
just that this isn't an element of the production that he has a

1088
00:50:36.539 --> 00:50:37.559
strong opinion about.

1089
00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:40.800
And so... changing other things, and this is something.

1090
00:50:40.860 --> 00:50:42.239
Yeah, that's right.

1091
00:50:42.300 --> 00:50:46.920
And, you know, we get a whole new group of themes when he comes in

1092
00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:50.400
and we get that incredible music for the 11th doctor.

1093
00:50:50.460 --> 00:50:55.559
So it does renew itself a beard and it leaves some old themes

1094
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:59.340
behind, but I just think that that's not Moffatt's forte, I

1095
00:50:59.340 --> 00:50:59.579
think.

1096
00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:17.639
Well, speaking of dead, so Amy and Rory sit up in the graveyard.

1097
00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:21.539
It's quite a comic sort of like, just to sit up.

1098
00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:24.179
I like the fact that there's near their grave.

1099
00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:33.179
Yeah. into a sequence where the inevitable happens, but the whole

1100
00:51:33.179 --> 00:51:36.000
TARDIS, you know, is all, isn't it on fire?

1101
00:51:36.059 --> 00:51:37.019
isn't he putting it out?

1102
00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:38.039
Am I incorrect?

1103
00:51:38.099 --> 00:51:41.519
Yeah, that's when he 1st lands in the graveyard for the 1st time.

1104
00:51:41.699 --> 00:51:46.079
But the 2nd, like that final scene, I think.

1105
00:51:46.139 --> 00:51:51.239
And, you know, it's nearly sort of 7 minutes from the end, it's

1106
00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:52.860
quite a long distance from the end.

1107
00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:56.400
There's quite a bit of wrapping up to happen at the end of the

1108
00:51:56.400 --> 00:51:56.880
story.

1109
00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:00.360
And I think, you know, Moffat has learned to judge how much can go

1110
00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:05.159
into 40 minutes or 35 minutes and allows himself enough time to

1111
00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:07.139
see the character's reactions.

1112
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:11.519
And I think maybe the most shocking thing about the ending is how

1113
00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:18.300
completely Rory and Amy are erased from the story at the moment

1114
00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:19.980
that they're taken back in time.

1115
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:23.039
And we do get that finale.

1116
00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:27.719
We do get the afterward in the book, the page that the doctor is

1117
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:29.699
torn out and left behind.

1118
00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:33.780
So we are sort of reassured, but we don't get to see their

1119
00:52:33.780 --> 00:52:34.440
response.

1120
00:52:34.500 --> 00:52:37.679
We don't get to see their reunion and we don't get to see that

1121
00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:42.960
scene where the doctor goes to Brian and explains what's

1122
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:43.800
happened.

1123
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:46.679
And I think that's kind of the right choice.

1124
00:52:46.739 --> 00:52:52.619
I think that we do need to be a bit bereft, by their departure, and

1125
00:52:52.619 --> 00:52:56.340
we do need to feel that it was traumatic.

1126
00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:59.579
And my preferred option that I mentioned before, which is just

1127
00:52:59.579 --> 00:53:02.760
they age out of the relationship and ask the doctor to stop coming

1128
00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:08.099
around quite so much, is nowhere near as good as the ending where

1129
00:53:08.099 --> 00:53:12.900
they're just yanked from us unexpectedly by...

1130
00:53:12.900 --> 00:53:18.480
It's like, it's, you know, the bit where Jackie Hill gets shot by

1131
00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:23.460
the um, the guy on the floor in their glass.

1132
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:29.280
Or, like, suddenly Rory gets shot by a layer or whoever the hell

1133
00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:33.420
that is at the end of the Silurians too, partner, and it is that.

1134
00:53:33.480 --> 00:53:35.099
It's kind of like, oh, everything's good.

1135
00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:36.059
The episode's over.

1136
00:53:36.119 --> 00:53:38.579
Oh, whoops. you know, off they go.

1137
00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:41.880
I mean, the especially great thing about that is because you have

1138
00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:46.139
2 companions leaving, you can be extra cruel with Rory, he's sort

1139
00:53:46.139 --> 00:53:49.380
of the supporting companion anyway, and it's about Amy's

1140
00:53:49.380 --> 00:53:51.300
relationship to him, and just yank him out.

1141
00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:52.139
We never see him again.

1142
00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:54.239
Like mid-sentence pretty much.

1143
00:53:54.300 --> 00:53:56.760
And then you can have Amy react to that.

1144
00:53:56.820 --> 00:53:59.760
I know a lot of people are sad that Bory didn't get a goodbye, but

1145
00:53:59.760 --> 00:54:01.920
it is kind of Amy's story at the end of the day.

1146
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:04.500
And I think having both of them means you kind of get to have it

1147
00:54:04.500 --> 00:54:05.159
both ways there.

1148
00:54:05.219 --> 00:54:08.940
Kevin, I completely and totally agree with you because I'm a huge

1149
00:54:08.940 --> 00:54:11.219
Rory fan as opposed to an Amy fan.

1150
00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:15.480
So it's like, oh, yes, he's got the short end of the stick again

1151
00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:17.820
but it's, that doesn't worry me.

1152
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:21.000
Like that's totally his relationship with the doctor and how the

1153
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:22.739
character has been treated over time.

1154
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:26.039
And also, there's a bit of a fake out because he, they walk to the

1155
00:54:26.039 --> 00:54:26.880
Tartars, right?

1156
00:54:26.940 --> 00:54:28.619
And you think, okay, they're going to get away.

1157
00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:32.760
And then he makes the decision to be drawn back to the grave, to

1158
00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:35.099
look at it, and then, boom, that's it.

1159
00:54:35.159 --> 00:54:35.699
He's gone.

1160
00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:37.320
So it's a causal link.

1161
00:54:37.380 --> 00:54:41.579
His disappearance is caused by him spotting the result of his

1162
00:54:41.579 --> 00:54:42.420
disappearance.

1163
00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:47.280
It's another weird circular time thing as usual.

1164
00:54:47.340 --> 00:54:48.539
But it's inevitable.

1165
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:51.539
You know, that's where the episode's supposed to end.

1166
00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:56.880
And I think Moffatt sometimes kind of expects us to forget, you

1167
00:54:56.880 --> 00:54:59.039
know, it's like, oh, okay, it's all over.

1168
00:54:59.099 --> 00:54:59.699
We're good.

1169
00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:04.559
And then suddenly it is actually surprising when Rory gets taken

1170
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:05.639
and it shouldn't be.

1171
00:55:05.699 --> 00:55:08.940
We've known from the very beginning that this is the end of their

1172
00:55:08.940 --> 00:55:10.920
story and there's no escape from it.

1173
00:55:10.980 --> 00:55:12.119
Yeah, true.

1174
00:55:12.179 --> 00:55:15.719
Look, I mean, I'm really into minds, possibly more minds

1175
00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:15.900
actually.

1176
00:55:16.139 --> 00:55:19.199
There are so many different ways you could do this.

1177
00:55:19.260 --> 00:55:22.920
Maybe another choice might have been, and I'm not saying this is

1178
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:25.019
better or worse, but you could have had while the doctor is

1179
00:55:25.019 --> 00:55:31.380
reading the final page, you get a, you know, mute shots of Rory

1180
00:55:31.380 --> 00:55:35.039
having just been flung back in time, being incredibly upset, and

1181
00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:38.280
then looks up, and then there's Amy arrived as well, and they run

1182
00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:39.179
and embrace each other.

1183
00:55:39.300 --> 00:55:44.219
You know, just as a kind of a little softening of, but are you

1184
00:55:44.219 --> 00:55:45.420
right, it's kind of more final.

1185
00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:46.320
The fact they're just gone.

1186
00:55:46.380 --> 00:55:46.800
Yeah.

1187
00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:50.820
Going back to the original thing about how they leave and, you

1188
00:55:50.820 --> 00:55:55.380
know, I was so wanting them to be, you know, to decide, I think

1189
00:55:55.380 --> 00:55:56.219
we've had enough now.

1190
00:55:56.280 --> 00:55:58.559
We've got to get on with this or whatever, whatever the reason

1191
00:55:58.559 --> 00:55:58.860
is.

1192
00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:03.420
And Martha is, again, my one of my preferred departures because

1193
00:56:03.420 --> 00:56:06.599
there's a difference between that and the contract roulette thing

1194
00:56:06.659 --> 00:56:06.900
right?

1195
00:56:06.960 --> 00:56:09.179
Obviously, contract roulette is unfortunate.

1196
00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:14.219
Whereas I think the problem with most of the companion departures

1197
00:56:14.219 --> 00:56:18.059
or too many of the companion departures in the modern era are not

1198
00:56:18.059 --> 00:56:20.159
under their own agency.

1199
00:56:20.219 --> 00:56:23.639
They lose their agency when they, the choice has been taken away

1200
00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:24.000
from them.

1201
00:56:24.059 --> 00:56:27.119
I know that where the characters were moving to that place of

1202
00:56:27.119 --> 00:56:29.280
deciding that it's time to move on.

1203
00:56:29.340 --> 00:56:32.219
But the final choice has been taken away.

1204
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:33.840
And I know that that makes for a great story.

1205
00:56:33.900 --> 00:56:35.039
I'm into...

1206
00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:35.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1207
00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:37.920
It makes such a great story and such a powerful ending.

1208
00:56:37.980 --> 00:56:41.219
But it is just disappointing for me that this sort of thing keeps

1209
00:56:41.219 --> 00:56:41.579
happening.

1210
00:56:41.639 --> 00:56:43.380
Yeah, I think I feel the same way.

1211
00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:46.739
I do like being gutted though.

1212
00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:51.179
Like I like being upset by that departure because that's the right

1213
00:56:51.179 --> 00:56:52.019
response.

1214
00:56:52.139 --> 00:56:58.739
And the ageing out ending, that alternate ending is good in all

1215
00:56:58.739 --> 00:57:01.980
sorts of ways, but we're robbed of it in a horrible way.

1216
00:57:02.039 --> 00:57:05.639
And of course, then the doctor has the sads for the next episode

1217
00:57:05.639 --> 00:57:07.440
which is super important, I suppose.

1218
00:57:07.559 --> 00:57:11.219
Like I said, I like being forced to grieve with the characters in

1219
00:57:11.219 --> 00:57:11.699
real time.

1220
00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:14.460
It helps me take it a lot easier once the characters are gone

1221
00:57:14.460 --> 00:57:18.719
because I have had my moment to let it all out and be traumatised

1222
00:57:18.719 --> 00:57:23.099
and it kind of lets you process that in the same time as the

1223
00:57:23.099 --> 00:57:24.780
doctor, which I think is really well done.

1224
00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:27.780
You get that sense of loss and then you get a couple moments to

1225
00:57:27.780 --> 00:57:31.260
heal, which I think, I think it's the right choice, especially for

1226
00:57:31.260 --> 00:57:32.519
a team as beloved as this one.

1227
00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:36.599
It's interesting because I'd been complaining so much about this

1228
00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:38.099
ending leading up to this end.

1229
00:57:38.159 --> 00:57:38.699
Yeah, yeah.

1230
00:57:38.699 --> 00:57:42.420
Like I really liked the fact that they made choices to let them go

1231
00:57:42.420 --> 00:57:43.800
at the end of last season.

1232
00:57:43.860 --> 00:57:48.719
But in the end, you know, I'm actually quite okay with what's

1233
00:57:48.719 --> 00:57:50.280
happened here, right here and now.

1234
00:57:50.340 --> 00:57:53.099
I do give, you're looking at my notes.

1235
00:57:53.099 --> 00:57:54.239
I want to know what score you give it.

1236
00:57:54.300 --> 00:57:55.980
Nine out of 10.

1237
00:57:56.219 --> 00:57:57.000
I think it's great.

1238
00:58:22.739 --> 00:58:27.059
Well, listen, that's all we have time for during this half of the

1239
00:58:27.059 --> 00:58:27.300
year.

1240
00:58:27.360 --> 00:58:32.099
We'll be back for a wintry Christmas in July with the snowman.

1241
00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:36.539
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1242
00:58:36.539 --> 00:58:38.820
and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook

1243
00:58:38.820 --> 00:58:42.539
at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website

1244
00:58:42.539 --> 00:58:45.599
FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other

1245
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:51.179
podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterra, maximum power, and untitled

1246
00:58:51.179 --> 00:58:52.320
Star Trek project.

1247
00:58:53.039 --> 00:58:55.500
Kevin, where can people find you?

1248
00:58:55.559 --> 00:59:00.239
Well, mostly, I am tweeting inane and kind of miserable thoughts

1249
00:59:00.239 --> 00:59:04.380
right now, given the current state of the TV show, but that's at

1250
00:59:04.380 --> 00:59:08.940
Scribble Script, and I've also been, you know, contributing to

1251
00:59:08.940 --> 00:59:09.420
various things.

1252
00:59:09.480 --> 00:59:12.900
There's the, uh, 12th doctor fan audios on YouTube, which I've

1253
00:59:12.900 --> 00:59:14.940
been less involved with lately, but have been a lot of fun to work

1254
00:59:14.940 --> 00:59:16.920
on, but they think they're about halfway through their series

1255
00:59:16.920 --> 00:59:17.280
now.

1256
00:59:17.400 --> 00:59:20.519
I've been doing some stuff on the new adventures as part of an

1257
00:59:20.519 --> 00:59:23.579
ensemble group for the TARDIS scene.

1258
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:25.559
And that faction paradox short.

1259
00:59:25.619 --> 00:59:28.500
I keep threatening people with is, I think, finally almost out.

1260
00:59:28.559 --> 00:59:30.360
I don't know a date on that yet.

1261
00:59:31.019 --> 00:59:35.280
Until next time, remember, everything has got to end.

1262
00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:38.340
Sometime, otherwise nothing would ever get started.

1263
00:59:38.460 --> 00:59:41.039
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1264
00:59:41.099 --> 00:59:42.840
See you soon.

1265
00:59:42.900 --> 00:59:43.440
Bye for now.

1266
00:59:43.500 --> 00:59:44.159
Good night.

1267
00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:52.320
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd BLB, Nathan

1268
00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:54.300
Bottomley, Kevin Bernard and Simon Moore.

1269
00:59:54.360 --> 00:59:56.340
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1270
00:59:56.400 --> 00:59:59.940
This episode, River Knows All the Space Reasons, was recorded on

1271
00:59:59.940 --> 01:00:03.360
the 24th of April 2022, and released on the 8th of May.

1272
01:00:03.420 --> 01:00:06.719
You've just heard that we're taking a few weeks off before the

1273
01:00:06.719 --> 01:00:09.719
Christmas special and that we'll be doing the rest of series 7

1274
01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:10.320
later in the year.

1275
01:00:10.380 --> 01:00:14.340
So next time you feel like complaining about Moffat and Shipnell

1276
01:00:14.340 --> 01:00:15.840
not releasing enough, Doctor Who.

1277
01:00:15.900 --> 01:00:19.980
Remember that with all the resources of FTE studios behind us, even

1278
01:00:19.980 --> 01:00:23.460
flight through entirety came in with a reduced episode count in

1279
01:00:23.460 --> 01:00:24.179
2022.

1280
01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:01.199
Nine out of 10.

1281
01:01:01.440 --> 01:01:02.159
I think it's great.

1282
01:01:02.940 --> 01:01:05.219
I think that's where you ended.

1283
01:01:06.059 --> 01:01:09.239
I think that's where the TARDIS takeoff comes in.

1284
01:01:09.300 --> 01:01:10.920
What do you reckon?

1285
01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:14.639
I should say, and that's why I give this 9 out of 10.

1286
01:01:15.780 --> 01:01:20.460
So what time do we have people arriving?

1287
01:01:20.579 --> 01:01:22.380
1130 for Peter?

1288
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:24.900
Peter's going to be here and then it's just us.

1289
01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:26.519
It's just 4 of us.

1290
01:01:26.579 --> 01:01:27.179
Yeah, cool.

1291
01:01:27.239 --> 01:01:28.860
So we'll move and stuff.

1292
01:01:29.159 --> 01:01:32.400
So, Kevin, we might let you go.

1293
01:01:32.460 --> 01:01:34.320
Is that all right?