WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:44:35 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.420 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety 2 00:00:39.420 --> 00:00:43.920 the only Doctor Who podcast armed with projectile acid fish and 3 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:44.759 ready to use them. 4 00:00:44.820 --> 00:00:46.920 After all, it's Christmas. 5 00:00:46.979 --> 00:00:48.420 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:49.979 I'm Todd. 7 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:50.460 I'm Peter. 8 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:51.299 And I'm Simon. 9 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:54.780 Well, it's Mr. Moffat's 3rd Christmas special, which means it's 10 00:00:54.780 --> 00:00:57.960 time for Victorian, England, and a doctor with a massive case of 11 00:00:57.960 --> 00:00:59.759 the post-poned sads. 12 00:00:59.820 --> 00:01:03.600 We'll our new manic pixie dream girl be enough to bring him back 13 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:04.140 to life. 14 00:01:04.200 --> 00:01:07.019 Let's find out in the snowman. 15 00:01:40.140 --> 00:01:44.879 So, as I just said, we're back in Victorian England, which sort of 16 00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:46.859 seems to be the kind of natural place. 17 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:49.859 And I think that's probably where all our Christmas iconography 18 00:01:49.859 --> 00:01:50.219 comes from. 19 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:53.879 So even if we're in Sardic Town, it's still kind of Victorian 20 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:58.739 England at Christmas and I think it works tremendously well. 21 00:01:58.739 --> 00:02:03.359 I kind of got sick of every 14th episode of Doctor Who being about 22 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:03.959 Christmas. 23 00:02:04.019 --> 00:02:07.680 So I like that we've diversified in the Mothat era, and it's not 24 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:08.639 necessarily about Christmas. 25 00:02:08.699 --> 00:02:10.020 It's just about the trappings of Christmas. 26 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:11.340 Yeah, yeah. 27 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:16.860 I mean, look, I think that having a Christmas special is super 28 00:02:16.860 --> 00:02:21.900 important for Doctor Who and for its visibility, for it being an 29 00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:23.099 event every year. 30 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:28.560 And so I'm happy with the fact that we have a lot of Christmases 31 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:32.280 after 26 years of what, one Christmas. 32 00:02:32.460 --> 00:02:35.159 And even then, it's not really that Christmas. 33 00:02:35.219 --> 00:02:37.319 Almost the time warrior. 34 00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:43.500 But it just looks tremendous. 35 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:48.659 It's exactly what the BBC can do really well out of just opening a 36 00:02:48.659 --> 00:02:49.080 cupboard. 37 00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:50.580 Yeah, essentially. 38 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:52.860 There's great locations, though. 39 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:54.180 Like really good locations. 40 00:02:54.180 --> 00:02:57.539 Including that empty square where the ladder comes down from the 41 00:02:57.539 --> 00:03:00.900 TARDIS. just a beautiful large empty Victorian square. 42 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:04.379 Yeah, and you see parks like that in London. 43 00:03:04.439 --> 00:03:06.960 It seems really, really convincing I think. 44 00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:10.259 But the house and all of that sort of stuff. 45 00:03:10.379 --> 00:03:14.639 The pond, everything just looks tremendous, I think. 46 00:03:14.699 --> 00:03:18.479 There's a feeling from classic Doctor Who that this feels like 47 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:22.199 classic Doctor Who, but actually, classic Doctor Who quite rarely 48 00:03:22.199 --> 00:03:26.340 visited Victorian London, but it sort of harks back to that, and I 49 00:03:26.340 --> 00:03:29.639 think it might be because so much of it was filmed during kind of 50 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:32.099 winter location days and things like that. 51 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:36.300 It just, it feels nostalgic and it feels warm at the same time. 52 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:37.860 So it's just perfect for a Christmas special. 53 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:41.819 But you have, like, in Classic 2, a lot of big old Victorian 54 00:03:41.819 --> 00:03:45.000 houses that they visit in some of the most iconic episodes. 55 00:03:45.060 --> 00:03:48.599 So I think that's where you get that nostalgia for it from. 56 00:03:48.659 --> 00:03:51.539 Look, I absolutely adore this Christmas special. 57 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:53.039 I think it's probably my favourite. 58 00:03:53.099 --> 00:03:58.259 You know, Christmas Carol technically is absolutely brilliant and 59 00:03:58.259 --> 00:04:04.919 can't be beaten, but I get tired watching it because of the time 60 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:08.639 stuff, whereas this is a much more straightforward A to B to see 61 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:10.500 the Zed story. 62 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:16.439 And I just can relax and enjoy the comedy and enjoy the sadness 63 00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:18.899 and enjoy every performance in it. 64 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:21.660 I think my favourite children. 65 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:25.620 They do bring that up. 66 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:28.620 I actually do think they are 2 of the better child actors. 67 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:33.959 As, you know, listeners know, I really don't like children actors 68 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:36.600 in Doctor Who at all, but they're not too bad. 69 00:04:36.660 --> 00:04:39.899 No, it's the maid that's having a very bad day in the house when 70 00:04:39.899 --> 00:04:42.060 she sees her screaming, you know? 71 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:45.839 There is a woman with my wife and Strax and there's snowmen and 72 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:47.459 she's just hysterical and she faints. 73 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:51.180 Like, that's the stuff in Doctor 2 that I absolutely love. 74 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:53.939 Do you know that she had a descendant who worked in a guesthouse 75 00:04:53.939 --> 00:04:56.699 north of London when Donna and Will? 76 00:04:57.240 --> 00:04:59.639 And Sylvia stayed there? 77 00:04:59.699 --> 00:05:00.899 What, she just points? 78 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:04.199 She does points and repeats the same thing over and over. 79 00:05:04.259 --> 00:05:09.720 But it's those little characters. that make it for me, you know 80 00:05:09.720 --> 00:05:12.480 just having something like that, which is totally, like, I mean, it 81 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:14.759 didn't have to be like that, but it just adds to it. 82 00:05:14.819 --> 00:05:17.519 Sorry, I'm totally not where we wanted to start, I know. 83 00:05:17.579 --> 00:05:18.180 No, no. 84 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:20.279 What I like. 85 00:05:20.339 --> 00:05:24.540 You know, I love the Russell T. Davis era because it created a 86 00:05:24.540 --> 00:05:27.000 world for the doctor to live in. 87 00:05:27.060 --> 00:05:28.920 And there are a lot of people. 88 00:05:28.980 --> 00:05:32.579 You know, by the time we reach Journey's end, the TARDIS is sort 89 00:05:32.579 --> 00:05:36.060 of stuffed with people that we've got to know for the past for 90 00:05:36.060 --> 00:05:36.540 years. 91 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:41.339 And for me, Doctor Who feels a bit lonely when the doctor's 92 00:05:41.339 --> 00:05:46.019 friendless, one of the things that I dislike about the kind of 93 00:05:46.019 --> 00:05:50.339 late say word era is that the doctor doesn't seem to have any, well 94 00:05:50.339 --> 00:05:53.339 as male, I guess, but he doesn't... 95 00:05:53.339 --> 00:05:55.439 He doesn't seem to have any friends. 96 00:05:55.500 --> 00:05:57.180 He doesn't need to. 97 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:59.579 He doesn't belong anywhere. 98 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:03.959 And one of the things that makes the Pertuy era such great comfort 99 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:06.600 viewing is that there's a large regular cast. 100 00:06:06.660 --> 00:06:12.060 And here, even though Moffatt hasn't tried to create a world for 101 00:06:12.060 --> 00:06:16.860 his show to take place in, he's managed to create enough memorable 102 00:06:16.860 --> 00:06:18.839 characters whom he's able to bring back. 103 00:06:18.899 --> 00:06:24.120 And I think Vastra, Jenny, and Strax, who have just been imported 104 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:28.860 from what a good man goes to war, are just tremendously good. 105 00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:32.759 It's quite funny because when we're watching that for the 1st time 106 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:36.480 we actually, 10 years ago, we were actually both sort of thinking 107 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:38.279 wait a minute, who are these people? 108 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:39.360 Where were we from? 109 00:06:39.420 --> 00:06:41.519 But then, of course, you know, they're from a good man goes. 110 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:44.160 Well, but even then here, it's like they've been around forever. 111 00:06:44.220 --> 00:06:44.939 Yeah. 112 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:45.720 Someone, I agree. 113 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:46.439 It totally interesting. 114 00:06:46.500 --> 00:06:49.439 Like they just suddenly they're, they're the new team and you just 115 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:53.279 accept them and they are funny and they are clever and they work 116 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:56.040 so well with Matt and with Jenner, I think. 117 00:06:56.100 --> 00:06:58.980 And of course, they're going to come back in 2 more episodes in 118 00:06:58.980 --> 00:07:00.420 this 2nd half of the season. 119 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:02.459 I really... 120 00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:05.639 Part of me is disappointed that they're not in more episodes 121 00:07:05.639 --> 00:07:06.300 overall. 122 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:09.839 You know, I just think they just, um, I was talking in the large 123 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:13.019 episode about the fact that I felt that Matt goes a bit off the 124 00:07:13.019 --> 00:07:15.420 boil in the 2nd half of the season, but the episodes where he does 125 00:07:15.420 --> 00:07:18.660 work really well, uh, with these 3 or four. 126 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:21.420 It's like the new team because he doesn't have to carry everything 127 00:07:21.420 --> 00:07:24.779 and he can share the load and have different moments and show 128 00:07:24.779 --> 00:07:26.160 different sides to the doctor. 129 00:07:26.220 --> 00:07:29.639 And it is quite incredible to think that I just accept them and 130 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:31.500 they're just so brilliant in the episode and it's like they've 131 00:07:31.500 --> 00:07:31.920 always been there. 132 00:07:31.980 --> 00:07:34.740 I'm going to lay my cards on the table and say I don't like them 133 00:07:34.740 --> 00:07:35.040 very much. 134 00:07:35.100 --> 00:07:35.879 Okay. 135 00:07:35.939 --> 00:07:37.199 I think they're fine. 136 00:07:37.259 --> 00:07:40.319 Like, they're not terrible. but the shtick wears thin very 137 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:40.860 quickly. 138 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:42.660 It hasn't worn thin in this episode. 139 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:45.480 They're good in this episode, but it will be very much a case of 140 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:48.899 diminishing returns as they come back and do the same old lines 141 00:07:48.899 --> 00:07:50.339 and the same old scenes. 142 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:53.579 However, I do like the fact that the doctor has a ready-made 143 00:07:53.579 --> 00:07:57.000 family or group of friends in this episode because it underscores 144 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:00.420 the fact that he's retired from the world and he's even keeping 145 00:08:00.420 --> 00:08:01.560 them at arm's length. 146 00:08:01.620 --> 00:08:04.079 If he didn't have them, it would just be the doctor moping around 147 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:06.600 like, you know, episode one of the deadly assassin or something. 148 00:08:06.660 --> 00:08:09.959 Yeah, no, I do agree with you on the points that they're not 149 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:13.079 characters that I am fond of later, but I think they make a strong 150 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:14.759 entrance or proper entrance here. 151 00:08:14.939 --> 00:08:18.180 Isn't part of the point, though, that, you know, that, yes, the 152 00:08:18.180 --> 00:08:21.000 doctor has sort of retired from his inventuring in solving, you 153 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:21.120 know. 154 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:23.279 I think you were going to say retired from acting. 155 00:08:23.339 --> 00:08:25.379 No, he hasn't done that. 156 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:28.920 We retired from all that and they're trying to fill the gap. 157 00:08:28.980 --> 00:08:31.079 Yeah, so I think that's why it works as well. 158 00:08:31.139 --> 00:08:34.980 And it's a nice counterpoint because the doctor, in the loss of 159 00:08:34.980 --> 00:08:39.000 Amy and Rory, has become this kind of recluse who, you know 160 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:41.220 doesn't know his place in the world or has lost his place in the 161 00:08:41.220 --> 00:08:45.480 world, whereas Madame Vastra and Jenny in particular kind of give 162 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:49.679 you an image of a successful partnership that works in that 163 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:50.039 world. 164 00:08:50.100 --> 00:08:50.580 Yeah. 165 00:08:50.580 --> 00:08:51.299 Yeah. 166 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:58.379 And I mean, they are explicitly connected to homes and Watson. 167 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:02.460 And so Simeon, so Richard E. Grant's character says you do realise 168 00:09:02.460 --> 00:09:08.399 that Dr. Doyle is turning your adventures into crummy pulp fiction 169 00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:10.440 in the Strand magazine or whatever. 170 00:09:10.679 --> 00:09:12.779 And that's terrific. 171 00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:14.399 That is tremendously wonderful. 172 00:09:14.460 --> 00:09:19.440 And of course we know that Moffatt is a massive Sherlock Holmes 173 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:19.740 fan. 174 00:09:19.860 --> 00:09:21.299 How do we know that? 175 00:09:21.299 --> 00:09:21.960 I have no idea. 176 00:09:22.019 --> 00:09:24.720 But isn't it great when we get that musical sting? 177 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:27.360 When the doctor puts on the Sherlock Holmes outfit? 178 00:09:27.419 --> 00:09:29.519 A bit of Sherlock music. 179 00:09:29.580 --> 00:09:31.379 It's very... 180 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:36.059 But it's also the moment that you know that Clara is going to be a 181 00:09:36.059 --> 00:09:40.740 great companion is when she deduces from the fact that the doctor 182 00:09:40.740 --> 00:09:45.960 brings the umbrella that he's accepted her and wanted her to come 183 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:47.580 along with him. 184 00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:52.259 And that's very different from the way that Amy gets chosen. 185 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:57.960 Like Amy is the 1st person, that the doctor sees when he turns up 186 00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:02.820 as Matt Smith, and she's funny and self-possessed and not hugely 187 00:10:02.820 --> 00:10:07.200 impressed by him and all of those wonderful things, whereas this 188 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:10.980 is a companion who is going to be like the doctor for good or 189 00:10:10.980 --> 00:10:11.460 ill. 190 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:15.059 And that's kind of why she's been chosen. 191 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:16.559 She's as smart as him. 192 00:10:16.620 --> 00:10:18.840 She thinks the way that he does. 193 00:10:18.899 --> 00:10:24.000 And she's almost set up as a Lullaward Romana, just not being the 194 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:24.720 time lady thing. 195 00:10:24.779 --> 00:10:29.940 Yeah, well, in fact, you know, Romana has different personas 196 00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:31.860 because she's a time lady. 197 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:36.179 And here, Jenna's character has lots of different personas, but 198 00:10:36.179 --> 00:10:38.820 they're all playing by Jen to have lots of dinner. 199 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:40.379 Well, yeah. 200 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:41.639 No, I kind of meant. 201 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:44.820 In name of the doctor. but yes. 202 00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:49.139 Now here she has 2 separate personas. 203 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:50.399 Yeah, she does, doesn't she? 204 00:10:50.460 --> 00:10:52.320 Barmaid and governess. 205 00:10:52.379 --> 00:10:52.980 Yeah. 206 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:56.039 And she kind of had 2 personas back in the 1st episode. 207 00:10:56.100 --> 00:10:58.440 Dalek and Osmond. 208 00:10:58.500 --> 00:10:59.759 Entertainment Officer. 209 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:02.820 This is my favourite version of Clara. 210 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:05.700 Yeah, I can see why. 211 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:12.659 I am not as down on Clara as some of us are, and I do think that 212 00:11:12.659 --> 00:11:16.919 she has sort of considerable charisma, which is able in some 213 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:21.960 senses to kind of paper over the weird way that her character is 214 00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:23.580 introduced. 215 00:11:23.639 --> 00:11:25.799 But I do like this one a lot. 216 00:11:25.860 --> 00:11:29.039 And it is because she's just able to stand up to the doctor more 217 00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:29.879 or less straight away. 218 00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:33.299 But it's a weird thing because barmaid Clara, I think, is the most 219 00:11:33.299 --> 00:11:35.639 generically approachable character. 220 00:11:35.700 --> 00:11:39.299 We all know that kind of, you know, perky barmaid from Victorian 221 00:11:39.299 --> 00:11:42.299 London, from Oliver Twist, kind of, you know, leading a sin song. 222 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:45.899 We like that, whereas when she becomes governess Clara, she 223 00:11:45.899 --> 00:11:49.559 actually takes on a lot more of the mannerisms that I don't like 224 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:50.940 from later Clara. 225 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:51.899 Right, yeah. 226 00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:54.659 She has the posh accent and the smugness. 227 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:56.639 She has like a great hair butt. 228 00:11:56.700 --> 00:11:58.980 I'm sorry, it all comes back to her hair. 229 00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:00.419 Her hair looks absolutely brilliant. 230 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:01.980 Sorry, Simon is grimacing. 231 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:03.360 No, no, I'm not. 232 00:12:03.419 --> 00:12:06.840 I was grimacing at the Peter's suggestion that he doesn't like the 233 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:08.940 smugness because I think it's good smugness. 234 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:11.100 There's bad smugness and good smugness. 235 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:13.080 Simon, that's coming from someone who's very smug. 236 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:15.120 Obviously. 237 00:12:15.179 --> 00:12:18.419 Yeah, so it has to be taken without under consideration. 238 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:21.840 But nevertheless, I actually quite like the governess, Clara, very 239 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:22.080 much. 240 00:12:22.139 --> 00:12:23.460 Yeah, it's not terrible. 241 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:28.620 But the barmaid Clara, like at the beginning, you know, when the 242 00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:31.919 doctor walks passed in his hat, isn't it like a... 243 00:12:32.220 --> 00:12:33.899 He pulls off hats like no other doctor. 244 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:34.919 Yeah. 245 00:12:34.980 --> 00:12:37.440 And you notice he's not wearing his bow tie. 246 00:12:37.500 --> 00:12:41.700 This is another situation in asylum of the Daleks. 247 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:45.840 Remember how straightening his bow tie was the thing that he did 248 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:46.620 when he solved. 249 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:47.580 Was he superpower? 250 00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:48.720 Yeah, with superpower. 251 00:12:48.779 --> 00:12:51.299 He does it once he solved Amy and Rory's marriage. 252 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:51.899 Right. 253 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.080 And that he looks into the camera and straightens his bow eye. 254 00:12:55.139 --> 00:12:58.320 He, the bow tie, is associated with his heroic persona. 255 00:12:58.379 --> 00:12:59.879 He's not wearing it at the beginning. 256 00:12:59.940 --> 00:13:02.100 And then he says, does he have a line, Simon? 257 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:04.799 It's something like I can't remember when I put that back on. 258 00:13:04.860 --> 00:13:08.340 But I, it's interesting because when the whole sequence where he 259 00:13:08.340 --> 00:13:10.200 he's looking at himself in the mirror and he can't remember when 260 00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:13.620 he put the bai tie on, I hadn't even noticed that he didn't was 261 00:13:13.620 --> 00:13:14.340 wearing it before. 262 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:17.039 So it was quite a clever, a clever thing to show. 263 00:13:17.100 --> 00:13:19.080 And he does that whole Bill Nye routine. 264 00:13:19.139 --> 00:13:20.460 You know... 265 00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:20.759 Exactly. 266 00:13:20.820 --> 00:13:23.279 Like, I mean, Clara says like it's cooler. 267 00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:23.940 Yes. 268 00:13:24.539 --> 00:13:25.620 And he misses... 269 00:13:25.620 --> 00:13:29.460 And it is the whole Bill Knight thing. 270 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:31.019 It made me sort of like, oh, quite. 271 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:33.360 I got quite emotional when that sort of happened, you know? 272 00:13:33.419 --> 00:13:35.460 It has happened before, actually. 273 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:39.120 You remember in a Christmas carol where Kazran Sardik starts 274 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:43.919 wearing a bow tie, when he's a friend of the doctor. 275 00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:46.679 And then when he finally rejects him, he stops wearing it. 276 00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:50.940 So the boat's high, I think, it's so funny, isn't it? 277 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:52.620 Because it's a weird choice. 278 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:56.639 It's clearly just been brought in because whether this story is 279 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:01.919 true or not, and I have my doubts because Matt liked Tomb of the 280 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:04.980 Cyberman and wanted to have the Bow Tie. 281 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:08.700 And so that was his kind of take on it. 282 00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:12.539 But Moffin actually gives it a symbolic meaning as things go on. 283 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:15.120 Yeah, Nathan, it's hilarious because, like, if you hadn't chosen 284 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:16.500 that, we wouldn't have all these moments. 285 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:17.820 Yeah, yeah, he takes it. 286 00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:21.120 He runs with it and he makes it something that brings out so 287 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:21.960 emotions in us all. 288 00:14:22.019 --> 00:14:24.659 Yeah, well, that's when Matt leaves. 289 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:26.820 He drops the bow tie to the floor of the tartars. 290 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:29.639 And then the 11th hour when he moves through the images of the 291 00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:32.039 other doctor, he's adjusting the bow tie, he's become the doctor. 292 00:14:32.100 --> 00:14:33.299 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 293 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:34.860 It's really fun isn't it? 294 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:37.919 And it is just one of those things that Moffatt does. 295 00:14:37.980 --> 00:14:38.940 It's not planned. 296 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:42.480 It's discovered, I think, as the show goes on. 297 00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:44.639 Yeah, because originally it's just this quirky thing. 298 00:14:44.700 --> 00:14:47.340 You know, people don't wear bow ties in the modern era outside of 299 00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:49.679 you know, tuxedos and even when they do wear a tuxedo, they're 300 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:50.820 often not wearing it. 301 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:53.879 And it's certainly not a one that you tie yourself and turning 302 00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:56.220 that into a motif does actually become a sort of a logical 303 00:14:56.220 --> 00:14:58.259 progression, given the fact that it's unusual. 304 00:14:58.320 --> 00:14:59.759 And it's always a balance of things. 305 00:14:59.820 --> 00:15:02.039 I don't think you could have put Capaldi in a bow tie because 306 00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:05.220 Capaldi, as an essence, is too doctor-ish. 307 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:08.100 And so if you add a bow tie to it, it all looks a bit over egged 308 00:15:08.100 --> 00:15:11.100 whereas Matt is not a likely doctor before you see him. 309 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:13.980 And so putting the bow tie on stamps him as the doctor. 310 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:14.279 Yeah. 311 00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:14.820 Yeah. 312 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:18.299 And also because he's so young, it's like, you know, bow ties 313 00:15:18.299 --> 00:15:19.679 being associated as a person. 314 00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:21.960 Yeah, and so it's an anachronism and that's why it works. 315 00:15:22.019 --> 00:15:25.679 Yeah, he's sort of dressed in a sort of 1950s way up until this 316 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:26.580 point, isn't he? 317 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:30.120 Like a teacher in a school in the 1950s. 318 00:15:30.179 --> 00:15:35.700 And this is the point where we won't see his old costume again, I 319 00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:37.860 think, or that he won't wear it regularly. 320 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:38.460 Yeah. 321 00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:39.960 I will miss it. 322 00:15:40.019 --> 00:15:40.559 Yeah, me too. 323 00:15:40.620 --> 00:15:44.279 I think the shorter coach is so many of the doctors wear these 324 00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:47.220 long coats and it became a thing of, you know... 325 00:15:47.220 --> 00:15:47.940 It was the 80s. 326 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.759 I mean, just basically every doctor in the 80s until McCoy came 327 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:51.000 along. 328 00:15:51.059 --> 00:15:52.740 Well, from Tom, really. 329 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:53.759 So it's the mid 70s. 330 00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:57.000 So, um, and it's only so it's only really pert wheat and McCoy 331 00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:59.279 that wear the short jackets in the old series. 332 00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:01.320 And so that for me was so refreshing. 333 00:16:01.379 --> 00:16:04.919 It makes him move so much faster and the silhouette is very 334 00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:05.340 distinctive. 335 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:08.100 And I think it was disappointing for me when they went to the 336 00:16:08.100 --> 00:16:10.799 longcoat outside of just a Victorian episode like this. 337 00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:13.740 And that's the thing that I love too, which harks back to the 338 00:16:13.740 --> 00:16:16.259 heart and the era, where they're actually changing clothes. 339 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:20.759 I love this, the fact that he's wearing a full-on Victorian with 340 00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:23.940 the hat and everything rather than just swanning around in his 341 00:16:23.940 --> 00:16:24.720 normal outfit. 342 00:16:24.779 --> 00:16:26.220 So it'll match the action figure. 343 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:27.539 That suits him so much. 344 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:28.320 Sorry to return. 345 00:16:28.379 --> 00:16:28.799 It does. 346 00:16:28.860 --> 00:16:29.519 No, no, it does. 347 00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:31.320 It actually works really, really well. 348 00:16:31.379 --> 00:16:33.240 It's a doctorate outfit in the Victorian era. 349 00:16:33.299 --> 00:16:33.840 Yeah. 350 00:16:33.899 --> 00:16:35.519 And he's wearing Amy's glasses too. 351 00:16:35.580 --> 00:16:36.480 Yeah, yeah. 352 00:16:36.539 --> 00:16:37.379 I didn't pick that. 353 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:38.039 Yeah. 354 00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:41.879 In fact, there's even a kind of moment where he's aware that 355 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:42.899 they're Amy's glasses. 356 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:46.860 Isn't isn't that when he's in the Tartars that we're not seeing 357 00:16:46.860 --> 00:16:48.240 when he's talking to Vestra? 358 00:16:48.299 --> 00:16:51.960 Yeah, yeah, there's some reference to Amy because there's there's 359 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:52.860 pond, isn't there? 360 00:16:52.980 --> 00:16:55.320 Yes, I will get to that, the word pond. 361 00:16:55.379 --> 00:16:58.740 And I think he refers or he looks at the glasses at that point 362 00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:03.720 because as we said over the last few episodes, in power of three 363 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:07.619 the optician calls them up to say that Amy's reading glasses are 364 00:17:07.619 --> 00:17:07.920 ready. 365 00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:12.119 She's wearing them in the next episode and they get passed on to 366 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:14.880 Matt Smith, who actually discovers that reading is much better 367 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:19.200 with them. puts them on and goes, oh, wow, this is a lot better. 368 00:17:19.259 --> 00:17:21.599 And now he's just sort of wearing them regularly. 369 00:17:21.660 --> 00:17:23.400 It's the thing that is left behind. 370 00:17:23.460 --> 00:17:27.839 And although Amy and Rory, Amy and Rory don't, do they get 371 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:28.559 mentioned by name? 372 00:17:28.619 --> 00:17:29.759 I don't know that they do. 373 00:17:29.819 --> 00:17:31.380 I think they know, only pond. 374 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:32.460 Only pond. 375 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:36.180 But we know that that's why the doctors retreated. 376 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:42.180 And there's something beautifully fairy tale about him living on a 377 00:17:42.180 --> 00:17:42.660 cloud. 378 00:17:43.740 --> 00:17:44.279 Gorgeous. 379 00:17:44.339 --> 00:17:49.500 It looks so good that the spiral staircase, like Jack going up the 380 00:17:49.500 --> 00:17:50.039 beanstalk. 381 00:17:50.099 --> 00:17:51.599 Yeah, it's really great. 382 00:17:51.660 --> 00:17:55.259 But isn't doesn't her theme come in at that point too, that her 383 00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:56.220 beautiful Clara's theme. 384 00:17:56.579 --> 00:17:57.720 Yeah, as she's walking up the 1st time. 385 00:17:57.779 --> 00:17:58.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 386 00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:00.059 Oh, it's so nice. 387 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:00.599 He's done it. 388 00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:01.740 And even though it's ridiculous. 389 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:05.279 It works, especially in the context of the Christmas episode 390 00:18:05.339 --> 00:18:06.720 nature. 391 00:18:06.779 --> 00:18:09.299 It's like, you know, all of the close-ups of the snowflakes and so 392 00:18:09.299 --> 00:18:10.980 on. you know it's just nice. 393 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:17.160 Another example of actually Marigold being good, and I don't know 394 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:19.319 whether it, again, this is the director kind of pushing him, but I 395 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:23.039 think his music in this episode is very, very strong, and that's 396 00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:24.480 coming from someone who's not a huge fan of him. 397 00:18:24.539 --> 00:18:28.619 I think getting properly to play with this new theme, you know 398 00:18:28.619 --> 00:18:31.920 invigorates him a bit, the way he always rises to a theme, doesn't 399 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:32.099 he? 400 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:35.880 And Clara's theme is very, very good and very distinctive. 401 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:51.599 Talking of themes, just going back a bit to the beginning, we 402 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:54.539 haven't mentioned the opening credits yet, which for me, no, well 403 00:18:54.539 --> 00:18:55.500 opening credits are important. 404 00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:56.339 They are. 405 00:18:56.339 --> 00:18:57.480 Very important. 406 00:18:57.539 --> 00:18:59.220 No, no, I was laughing because I knew we'd get here. 407 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:00.000 Ah, right. 408 00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:03.839 But before we get to them, we've got things in that pre-credit 409 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:07.859 sequence, we've got the doctor Doctor Who joke that Stephen seems 410 00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:09.059 to be bringing in quite a lot. 411 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:13.440 We've got the great intelligence, right, on the carriage or 412 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:13.859 whatever. 413 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:16.859 And then, of course, it cuts into the new intro. 414 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:21.000 Yes, which is the best opening credits of the modern era. 415 00:19:21.059 --> 00:19:22.319 Okay. 416 00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:23.579 Counterpoint. 417 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:26.579 It's the worst opening credits of the modern era. 418 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:27.359 Fascinating. 419 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:29.160 Can I meet you halfway? 420 00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:32.099 I do quite like it, but it's a bit like the mill threw up in a 421 00:19:32.099 --> 00:19:32.700 kaleidoscope. 422 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:35.160 Yeah, it's kind of, it's not saying anything. 423 00:19:35.220 --> 00:19:36.480 It doesn't seem to go in any direction. 424 00:19:36.539 --> 00:19:37.740 Oh I disagree. 425 00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:39.660 Like, it's quite 80s-ish. 426 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:40.140 Yeah. 427 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:40.799 Yes. 428 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:45.359 Actually, no, it's because the reason why, okay, the reason why I 429 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.480 love it so much. is that I think it's the one that's most 430 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:54.480 authentic to the original show whilst also being a modern update. 431 00:19:54.539 --> 00:19:57.599 The other thing that I love about it is, I think it's the only 432 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:01.619 opening credits where what's happening on the screen. actually 433 00:20:01.619 --> 00:20:04.559 marries with the music or vice versa. 434 00:20:04.619 --> 00:20:04.920 Okay. 435 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:10.859 The thing that drove me nuts when those credits 1st rolled in 2005 436 00:20:10.859 --> 00:20:13.859 and one of my biggest disappointments was the fact that, 0 my god 437 00:20:13.859 --> 00:20:16.440 it's like someone did the music and someone put the credits 438 00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:18.960 together and they didn't put it together until they put the 439 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:19.559 episodes together. 440 00:20:19.619 --> 00:20:21.720 It's the moment, isn't it, where the camera turns around the 441 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:22.200 TARDIS? 442 00:20:22.259 --> 00:20:23.220 The TARDIS moves. 443 00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:25.920 It doesn't match anything in the world. 444 00:20:25.980 --> 00:20:27.660 That's the thing that's the most jarring about that. 445 00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:30.480 Even the updated, when you come to the Matt Smith credits, even 446 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:33.240 that's kind of a bit lazy, the way you got the clouds. 447 00:20:33.299 --> 00:20:36.000 I mean, I like them, but it's, you know, the TARDIS going through 448 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:40.079 the clouds, it doesn't match the music in a way that it should 449 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.599 where the beats, where the strong moments of the music. 450 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:46.140 And again, when we get to the Capaldi credits, again, it's like 451 00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:48.480 completely disconnected with what's going on in the music. 452 00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:51.480 But these titles take you on a journey, like the Sylvester McCoy 453 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:54.720 ones did, for instance, which I like because it's visual interest 454 00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:58.680 whereas the Capaldi credits may have a stronger motif, but they're 455 00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:00.660 just less interesting. that's true. 456 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:03.299 I just think it's just, let's not talk about Chris Chipnell 457 00:21:03.299 --> 00:21:04.200 coughing up in England. 458 00:21:04.259 --> 00:21:06.960 Oh, no, I think that's like a oily puddle. 459 00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:09.779 I think... 460 00:21:09.779 --> 00:21:10.980 Isn't he eating blotters? 461 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:15.059 I think my thing is that it's just a whole bunch of crazy crap 462 00:21:15.059 --> 00:21:15.480 happening. 463 00:21:15.539 --> 00:21:16.380 Yeah, yeah. 464 00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:18.359 And it doesn't seem like to go here. 465 00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:22.740 I love the fact that his face appears here. 466 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:24.180 That is what got to me. 467 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:25.680 Yes, and subtly. 468 00:21:25.740 --> 00:21:26.640 That's yeah. 469 00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:29.339 Again, I don't want to dwell on that too much because that's not 470 00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:31.200 the only reason I love them, but I think that just added 471 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:32.039 beautifully to it. 472 00:21:32.099 --> 00:21:35.460 One of the most disappointing things for me is moving forward that 473 00:21:35.460 --> 00:21:38.880 you only get them in this 2nd half series and that's it. 474 00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:42.599 I kind of thought moving forward into Capaldi, it'd be like a 475 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:46.740 season 11 to 12 transition where you'd still have them with an 476 00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:48.720 updated face. eyebrows. 477 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:51.000 But yes, they're just... 478 00:21:51.059 --> 00:21:52.200 Well, like season 11 onto 12. 479 00:21:52.380 --> 00:21:52.559 Yeah. 480 00:21:52.619 --> 00:21:55.559 Well, can I just conjecture here, and it is educated conjecture 481 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:58.619 that this was meant to be a soft reboot for the show with new 482 00:21:58.619 --> 00:22:00.180 TARDIS, new credits, new music. 483 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:04.440 And I don't think that Moffat was expecting that Matt was going to 484 00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:04.680 leave. 485 00:22:04.740 --> 00:22:07.440 Yeah. stay for one more year. 486 00:22:07.500 --> 00:22:07.920 That's right. 487 00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:09.059 Yeah, at least one more movie, yeah. 488 00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:14.759 Can I say, though, that this TARDIS, this new TARDIS, which we see 489 00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:19.500 for the 1st time, is perhaps the best hardest set in the show's 490 00:22:19.500 --> 00:22:19.980 rhyme. 491 00:22:19.980 --> 00:22:20.880 Yeah, that's interesting. 492 00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:23.220 I'm surprised because I entirely agree with you on that. 493 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:25.980 And the reason I love it is because it's getting away from the 494 00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:30.539 grunge and the organicness and moving towards something that 495 00:22:30.539 --> 00:22:33.059 actually resembles for me the original show. 496 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:36.539 It effortlessly evokes the original wild being different. 497 00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:40.799 And it does it by sort of being mostly white and lit well, but 498 00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:43.859 that beautiful blue, which I prefer to the capald yellow. 499 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:44.880 Yeah, yeah. 500 00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:48.420 I mean, I quite like what they do to it in the Capaldi era. 501 00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:52.380 And I'm glad that they don't change it completely, but it's also 502 00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:53.279 super interesting. 503 00:22:53.339 --> 00:22:56.039 There's just lots of practical lights in it. 504 00:22:56.099 --> 00:22:58.619 There's things that actually move around. 505 00:22:58.680 --> 00:22:59.759 It's interesting. 506 00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:00.900 It's got different levels. 507 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:02.099 There's different places to shoot. 508 00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:04.019 And the switches seem timeless. 509 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:05.279 You know what I mean? 510 00:23:05.339 --> 00:23:08.579 not those 80s kind of microprocessor switches and they're not kind 511 00:23:08.579 --> 00:23:11.279 of bits of kitchen sink and stuff like that, but they just work. 512 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:15.720 I think that the bits of kitchen sink, the taps and the things on 513 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:18.779 Matt's 1st console are a bit too bad. 514 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:19.619 A bit too much, yes. 515 00:23:19.619 --> 00:23:20.160 100%. 516 00:23:20.220 --> 00:23:24.839 Well, my 2 cents is that I absolutely adore the Capaldi version 517 00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:25.619 right? 518 00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:29.400 Because I love all the stuff around the outside, all the 519 00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:29.819 bookshelves. 520 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:30.720 I think that's brilliant. 521 00:23:30.779 --> 00:23:34.440 I do take your point, the blue lighting is probably better than 522 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:38.339 the yellow lighting, but it's just that the moment you go into 523 00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:41.339 that TARDIS because they've hidden it. right? 524 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:42.599 He's been sitting down reading a book. 525 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:47.519 And then the whole thing is spinning and the lights and then it's 526 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:48.779 just a hero shot of the episode. 527 00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:51.779 It's another high point in this which is why I just adore it. 528 00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:54.480 And he actually turns out the lights in the TARDIS when he leaves 529 00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:57.539 just so he can turn them on for dramatic effect when Clara comes 530 00:23:57.539 --> 00:23:57.779 in. 531 00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:00.119 It's pick word, isn't it? 532 00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:01.259 Yeah, it's so good. 533 00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:02.940 That's genius. 534 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:04.440 Yeah, he really is very good. 535 00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:07.920 And I remember an interview with Moffatt, where Moffatt said, where 536 00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:12.000 Moffatt kind of contradicts himself, where the original kind of 537 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:18.779 whimsical Tardar said that Matt started with was to reflect the 538 00:24:18.779 --> 00:24:19.859 sort of fairy tale. 539 00:24:19.980 --> 00:24:24.359 It was a sort of Charlie and the chocolate factory thing, you know 540 00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:25.140 aesthetic. 541 00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:29.819 And he's saying, no, no, no, it's a time and space machine, and it 542 00:24:29.819 --> 00:24:32.279 should look like that, which was kind of the opposite of what he 543 00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:32.819 said before. 544 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:35.880 And I think it just feeds into my theory of Moffatt constantly 545 00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:38.579 reacting against the thing that he did previously. 546 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:39.779 I think it's stunning. 547 00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:42.779 But I love it that it's from the roof rather than built up from 548 00:24:42.779 --> 00:24:43.140 underneath. 549 00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:44.099 Yeah, that's right. 550 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.839 I mean, that was the strong point of the 1st Matt Smith TARDIS, was 551 00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:53.160 the glass floor and that area underneath where he got to wear 552 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:55.200 goggles and kind of fiddle with things. 553 00:24:55.259 --> 00:24:57.720 There's a thing coming down from the top. does hark back to the 554 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:00.960 very, very original, like an earthly child where you have this 555 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:03.000 great big thing above the console. 556 00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:07.619 I don't know how quickly that gets lost or destroyed or the roof 557 00:25:07.619 --> 00:25:07.859 thing. 558 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:08.819 Yeah, the roofing. 559 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:12.059 Because what it's doing is it's saying, this is not a set. 560 00:25:12.180 --> 00:25:14.880 Because you used to sets having walls with no root because that's 561 00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:15.720 where the lighting grid is. 562 00:25:15.779 --> 00:25:19.259 And having a sense of a roof or something coming down from above 563 00:25:19.259 --> 00:25:21.299 does make it feel like it's more of a complete space. 564 00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:24.900 That object that with the sort of concentric circles and stuff is 565 00:25:24.900 --> 00:25:27.180 referenced in Matt Smith's 1st TARDIS. 566 00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:27.779 Yes. 567 00:25:27.779 --> 00:25:30.059 So that element of the bracardi. 568 00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:31.440 I think it just executed so much better. 569 00:25:31.500 --> 00:25:32.039 Yes, so good. 570 00:25:32.099 --> 00:25:33.240 It is really great. 571 00:25:33.299 --> 00:25:36.779 And of course, it's there to tell the story of how the doctor's 572 00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:40.440 feeling as well, which is why it's moodily lit in blue and all of 573 00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:40.980 that kind of thing. 574 00:25:41.099 --> 00:25:44.519 It takes its cue from the rest of the episode, which is lit very 575 00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:48.539 practically in shots and given a deep blue grade. 576 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:51.119 It's just gorgeous and so the console looks like the rest of the 577 00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:51.420 episode. 578 00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:52.259 Yeah, yeah. 579 00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:57.900 And so the doctor's miserable and he's kind of retired from not 580 00:25:57.900 --> 00:26:03.359 just investigating things, but also saving people. 581 00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:04.740 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 582 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:09.299 He's just sort of uninterested in the world and he explains it by 583 00:26:09.299 --> 00:26:13.019 saying that the universe keeps doing this to me. 584 00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:17.220 I keep saving the universe and the universe doesn't care, I think 585 00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:17.759 he said. 586 00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:19.140 Yes, the universe doesn't care. 587 00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:19.680 Yeah. 588 00:26:19.740 --> 00:26:20.759 That's what I've learned. 589 00:26:20.819 --> 00:26:21.000 Yeah. 590 00:26:21.059 --> 00:26:22.859 What do you want doctor applause? 591 00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:26.579 You know, what I think is the best thing about that. 592 00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:32.819 There is some, there's something that this story has to say about 593 00:26:32.819 --> 00:26:37.619 men and women, and it's Moffatt, so that's inevitable, but the 2 594 00:26:37.619 --> 00:26:42.180 people who are doing the doctor's job, who have taken over when he 595 00:26:42.180 --> 00:26:49.920 is too busy having feels up in his cloud, those are women being a 596 00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:50.640 snowflake. 597 00:26:52.019 --> 00:26:56.279 It's the 2 women who are undertaking his job. 598 00:26:56.339 --> 00:27:02.519 And then when Clara comes in and Vastra interviews her in a scene 599 00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:05.099 that I think is just tremendously clever. 600 00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:08.880 When Vastra says he doesn't care. 601 00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:12.000 He's not kind, you know, whatever. 602 00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:16.920 And she just says back to her words, like says the word words 603 00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:22.019 because Vastra has said that words are full of lies, and that's 604 00:27:22.019 --> 00:27:23.759 why you're only allowed to say one at a time. 605 00:27:23.819 --> 00:27:27.420 And then when she says he doesn't want to be hurt anymore. 606 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:29.759 Her response is, man. 607 00:27:29.819 --> 00:27:34.740 You know, it's the doctor having a big suk and having lots of man 608 00:27:34.740 --> 00:27:35.519 kind. 609 00:27:35.579 --> 00:27:36.960 You might as spoil a water sign. 610 00:27:37.019 --> 00:27:40.500 I might as well have worn a sign saying manic pixie dream. 611 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:43.799 The only objection I have to that sequence and I think it's a 612 00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:47.160 great sequence is it's that introduction or the continuation of 613 00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:51.420 this idea of, you know, trying to paint the doctor as, oh, no, he's 614 00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:52.740 not kind. you know, he's an alien. 615 00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.279 He's not actually a nice person, you know, which I am always 616 00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:59.759 uncomfortable with because I think, you know, for 98% of the 617 00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:03.299 program, we see this very kind, compassionate person. 618 00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:06.420 Yes, alien and yes, sometimes his values are a little bit 619 00:28:06.420 --> 00:28:08.279 different, you know, and all that sort of stuff. 620 00:28:08.339 --> 00:28:11.279 But I don't like that when they say that he's unkind. 621 00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:12.480 I agree with you. 622 00:28:12.539 --> 00:28:15.539 And I don't think it works most of the time, but I do think it 623 00:28:15.539 --> 00:28:19.019 works for Matt Smith's doctor who is so charming and, you know 624 00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:22.200 breaks out into the smile so readily that it offers you a nice 625 00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:25.200 counterpoint, whereas, you know, you can't do it, as we'll see 626 00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:27.420 with the Capaldi doctor, because he's more brittle. and so you 627 00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:28.200 don't want to go there. 628 00:28:28.259 --> 00:28:31.259 You know, he's not kind or he's not acting kind sometimes either. 629 00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:41.220 I do like that sequence with Vestra. 630 00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:44.579 I love the fact that she is not drinking red wine. 631 00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:46.500 Yes, What is the other drink? 632 00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:48.480 Whatever, that happens to be. 633 00:28:48.539 --> 00:28:49.920 It's blood, isn't it? 634 00:28:49.980 --> 00:28:55.319 Doesn't she eat someone at the beginning of, is it the Crimson 635 00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:56.279 Horror or deep breath? 636 00:28:56.339 --> 00:28:58.079 No, because she's getting a good man goes to war. 637 00:28:58.140 --> 00:28:59.039 That's it. 638 00:28:59.099 --> 00:29:01.319 Because she, because she says she comes back there, she found the 639 00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:01.740 murderer. 640 00:29:01.740 --> 00:29:03.180 How did you find him? 641 00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:03.599 Yes. 642 00:29:03.660 --> 00:29:05.220 Grizzly or something? 643 00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:06.660 Grizzly or something? 644 00:29:07.619 --> 00:29:11.460 Speaking of things tasting bad, the doctor kissing stracks on the 645 00:29:11.460 --> 00:29:15.000 forehead and then licking his lips in disgust is one of the best 646 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:16.619 Matt Smith moment. 647 00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:17.880 Yes, yes, yes. 648 00:29:17.940 --> 00:29:22.680 But one of the best moments also is the memory worm at the 649 00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:24.299 beginning distracts the carriage. 650 00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:25.619 I think it's hilarious. 651 00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:28.740 I mean, it's so obvious, but so irritable. 652 00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:29.339 It is. 653 00:29:29.339 --> 00:29:30.059 You're right. 654 00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:34.200 But it again is Clara doesn't run away. 655 00:29:34.259 --> 00:29:37.980 They're trying to get the memory worm in order to wipe her memory 656 00:29:37.980 --> 00:29:43.140 of ever having matched it off. and watch too men be incompetent. 657 00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:44.700 Yes, that's exactly the thing. 658 00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:48.480 And there is a thing here, and it's, you talk about the Manic 659 00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:49.380 Pixie Dream Girl. 660 00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:53.400 So the idea of the manic pixie dream girl is that there's a male 661 00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:59.039 character who has the sads and then a zany girl comes along whose 662 00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:00.839 job is to lift him out of it. 663 00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:04.859 And she is absolutely a classic manic pixie dream girl. 664 00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:08.880 It's a term that was coined by Nathan Raven who used to write for 665 00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:13.380 the AV club and he's now a critic on his own site, Nathan Raven's 666 00:30:13.380 --> 00:30:15.720 happy place, and he's very cool, but he came up with that 667 00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:17.160 formulation. 668 00:30:17.220 --> 00:30:20.039 And Elizabeth Town, wasn't it? 669 00:30:20.099 --> 00:30:21.299 I can't remember actually. 670 00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:23.099 I think it was Kirsten Dunst. 671 00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:24.119 Right, right. 672 00:30:24.180 --> 00:30:28.319 And I think that's actually slightly a problem with the show is 673 00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:34.079 that the emotional labour has to be done by a woman, that a man 674 00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:38.160 can sit up there in his cloud not caring about anyone not wanting 675 00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:42.059 to do anything, being absorbed in his own thoughts, and then a 676 00:30:42.059 --> 00:30:44.039 woman comes along and kind of fixes him. 677 00:30:44.099 --> 00:30:47.220 And it is something that Moffatt always does. 678 00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:50.160 The women are more competent than the man. 679 00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:55.799 And given that male incompetence is a time worn strategy for 680 00:30:55.799 --> 00:31:00.240 getting out of your share of the housework and all of that kind of 681 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:04.619 thing or doing emotional labour or doing child rearing or all of 682 00:31:04.619 --> 00:31:04.859 that. 683 00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:05.819 I'm no good at that. 684 00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:07.440 I know about that, Nathan. 685 00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:09.420 We'll have to ask your suspiciously intimate other. 686 00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:11.819 It's that. 687 00:31:11.819 --> 00:31:14.519 You know, Latimer does it. 688 00:31:14.579 --> 00:31:18.539 Pretty Colonel Latimer or General Latimer or something, the 689 00:31:18.539 --> 00:31:20.160 children are not my area. 690 00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:23.339 I need you a woman to deal with them. 691 00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:26.460 And Moffat always does that. and it looks like it's being 692 00:31:26.460 --> 00:31:30.240 complimentary to women because women are more competent, more able 693 00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:34.980 more bossy, more intelligent, less stupid than man, but it is, I 694 00:31:34.980 --> 00:31:36.960 just can never escape the idea. 695 00:31:37.019 --> 00:31:39.119 It means that the women are doing more work. right. 696 00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:44.400 I mean, I think it's partly a function of the show in the 697 00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:46.740 companion will always be there to service the character of the 698 00:31:46.740 --> 00:31:47.880 doctor in some ways. 699 00:31:47.940 --> 00:31:50.400 And the doctor's usually male, and the companion is usually 700 00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:50.880 female. 701 00:31:50.940 --> 00:31:55.019 And so Motho reacts against that by making the companion quirky 702 00:31:55.019 --> 00:31:56.759 and fun and have equal status. 703 00:31:56.819 --> 00:31:58.980 But you're just locked into the structure of the program. 704 00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:00.299 I think that's probably right. 705 00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:04.859 But the worm is funny. 706 00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:09.059 I'm sorry, I think I've been run over by a cab and then... 707 00:32:09.059 --> 00:32:13.140 I mean, that is comedy gold, right? 708 00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:16.200 And Clara's just standing there looking, going, 0 my goodness. 709 00:32:16.259 --> 00:32:19.140 But again, it's one of these things where Stephen Morford 710 00:32:19.140 --> 00:32:21.779 introduces that thing early on and you think it's a throwaway 711 00:32:21.779 --> 00:32:25.619 thing and later on it comes back to bite in the pot, you don't see 712 00:32:25.619 --> 00:32:29.099 it coming that you know that Richard E. Grant is going to grab the 713 00:32:29.099 --> 00:32:29.519 worm. 714 00:32:29.579 --> 00:32:32.819 And it's just a throwaway line that, you know, let it bite you and 715 00:32:32.819 --> 00:32:33.480 you'll lose decades. 716 00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:34.200 Decades, yeah. 717 00:32:34.259 --> 00:32:35.700 It's so clever, isn't it? 718 00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:37.619 And that's how Moffatt does exposition. 719 00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:43.380 He actually has a really memorable comedy bit that we don't know 720 00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:47.640 at the time has the additional job of introducing the memory worm 721 00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:49.380 as a way of resolving. 722 00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:52.740 And that's what makes it so clever and so engaging because there's 723 00:32:52.740 --> 00:32:56.160 nothing like getting the payoff of that later because without that 724 00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:57.660 it's just a bit of silliness. 725 00:32:57.720 --> 00:32:58.140 Yeah. 726 00:32:58.200 --> 00:32:59.279 But silliness is great. 727 00:32:59.339 --> 00:33:00.660 I see this is fine. 728 00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:02.099 It's the silliness with the extra thing. 729 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:03.359 It balances it out. 730 00:33:03.420 --> 00:33:05.579 Yeah, I think memory worm for new companion. 731 00:33:05.940 --> 00:33:09.240 Memory worm seeded through the doctor's past. 732 00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:14.039 Tom would have loved that. 733 00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:17.339 Tom would have loved that. memory worm and a cabbage on his 734 00:33:17.339 --> 00:33:17.819 shoulder. 735 00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:20.940 It's such a great crummy puppet as well. 736 00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:22.799 It's just awesome. 737 00:33:22.859 --> 00:33:23.640 It's great. 738 00:33:23.700 --> 00:33:24.539 That's great. 739 00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:25.200 It was really good. 740 00:33:25.259 --> 00:33:29.039 So we haven't talked about the great intelligence very much. 741 00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:33.660 And here, the great intelligence, who was a mysterious force back 742 00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:39.480 in the 1960s, is now given an absolute solid specific origin 743 00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:40.200 story. 744 00:33:40.259 --> 00:33:41.579 Yes, how we feel. 745 00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:43.559 I think it's really nicely done. 746 00:33:43.619 --> 00:33:48.000 It's, I love, often origin stories are a bit rubbish. 747 00:33:48.059 --> 00:33:51.359 But I actually thought that it was so nicely done that it's 748 00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:56.700 basically grown out of this lonely boy's emotions and it feeds 749 00:33:56.700 --> 00:34:00.119 into the show because, you know, you know, part of the demographic 750 00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:02.940 of Doctor Who view is at least, you know, when we were children, is 751 00:34:02.940 --> 00:34:03.480 we are that boy. 752 00:34:03.539 --> 00:34:04.799 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 753 00:34:04.859 --> 00:34:09.480 Yeah, I love the fact that he explains it so delicately, like, you 754 00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:12.900 know, low telepathic field and then isn't there like a lunchbox 755 00:34:12.900 --> 00:34:14.099 with the London underground? 756 00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:16.980 Like it's feeding into all of that, but pointing out how 757 00:34:16.980 --> 00:34:19.860 ridiculous it actually is, but loving it at the same time. 758 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:23.400 Yeah, so the doctor actually gives the great intelligence the idea 759 00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:27.659 of putting yeti in the underground in this episode. 760 00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:31.199 Doesn't Jenny or somebody say... or Vastral, Jenny say something 761 00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:35.699 about how could the London Underground be a strategic weakness? 762 00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:36.059 Yeah. 763 00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:40.139 I mean, I'm not quite on board with the intelligence being reduced 764 00:34:40.139 --> 00:34:43.800 in dialogue to the level of Meglos or the Borad, you know 765 00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:46.679 incompetent, invading the underground, even though we know it was 766 00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:48.119 incompetent. 767 00:34:48.179 --> 00:34:50.159 But I really do like it. 768 00:34:50.219 --> 00:34:51.840 I think it is a good origin story. 769 00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:55.440 And I think that the snowmen are a really good modern iteration of 770 00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:57.659 the yeti. always looked a bit stupid. 771 00:34:57.719 --> 00:35:00.000 Yeah, the snowmen don't. 772 00:35:00.059 --> 00:35:03.659 They kind of they have the silhouette and the fierceness, but they 773 00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:04.500 don't look silly. 774 00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:06.420 They have shark's teeth, don't they? 775 00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:07.320 that work really well. 776 00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:12.179 And the snowflake, that's a little... 777 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:12.719 I love it. 778 00:35:12.780 --> 00:35:16.199 But yeah, no, I didn't think about that, the fact that they're 779 00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:19.019 sort of like the yeti because I love the fact that at the end you 780 00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:21.480 think the intelligence is defeated, right? 781 00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:26.460 Because he's dead, but then it's grown bigger than Simeon and 782 00:35:26.460 --> 00:35:27.239 winter is coming. 783 00:35:27.300 --> 00:35:29.760 I just love the fact that he's referencing Game of Thrones with 784 00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:30.599 Game of Thrones. 785 00:35:30.659 --> 00:35:31.500 Game train started by now. 786 00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:34.079 Oh yeah, it's a big phenomenon by now. really growing. 787 00:35:34.139 --> 00:35:36.659 So I really love that fact. 788 00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:40.920 But, I mean, obviously, next episode we're going to get the great 789 00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:45.360 intelligence again, and I kind of wish that we'd get it a bit, I 790 00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:47.940 would have liked it one more time during that 2nd half of the 791 00:35:47.940 --> 00:35:48.239 season. 792 00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:51.360 Well, that's just me perhaps thinking that maybe we need an 793 00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:53.820 episode with the edge somewhere down the track. 794 00:35:53.940 --> 00:35:56.219 Well, I sort of picked it straight away only because of the fact 795 00:35:56.219 --> 00:35:57.539 that it's, you know, the snowman. 796 00:35:57.539 --> 00:35:58.860 Like, it's abominable. 797 00:35:58.920 --> 00:35:59.280 Yeah. 798 00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:02.639 So I thought it was a deliberate play on that. 799 00:36:02.699 --> 00:36:03.599 And it clearly was. 800 00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:07.199 Yeah, but I like the little touches, like the sphere that he's 801 00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:09.179 putting the snow into that's kind of holding the greatest 802 00:36:09.179 --> 00:36:10.559 television is a sphere. 803 00:36:10.619 --> 00:36:13.019 Who knew that the Greece Intelligence lived in one of those things 804 00:36:13.019 --> 00:36:14.579 that scrambles the lotto. 805 00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:16.739 It's great, isn't it? 806 00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:18.539 I forgot that it comes back in the bells of St. 807 00:36:18.539 --> 00:36:18.780 John. 808 00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:22.980 But isn't it refreshing that the doctor at the end still can't 809 00:36:22.980 --> 00:36:24.360 quite remember the great injunction? 810 00:36:24.420 --> 00:36:26.280 Yeah, it's vaguely familiar. 811 00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:27.119 Where have I heard that? 812 00:36:27.179 --> 00:36:29.219 Because, of course, it's like so long ago in my history. 813 00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:32.039 Yeah, Clara, to slap him and say the episode's called The 814 00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:32.880 Snowmen. 815 00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:35.159 So how? 816 00:36:35.579 --> 00:36:36.960 Oh, can I just say something, by the way? 817 00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:40.500 Saul Metzstein, who does such a great job on this episode. 818 00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:43.500 I mean, I think the last thing he did was a town called Mercy and 819 00:36:43.500 --> 00:36:44.820 we raved about his direction in that. 820 00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:49.860 He is actually the 2nd assistant director on a 2017 film called 821 00:36:49.860 --> 00:36:53.639 The Snowman. 6% on rotten tomatoes. 822 00:36:53.699 --> 00:36:56.400 Hurry and watch it. 6% as high as them, my goodness. 823 00:36:56.460 --> 00:36:57.840 What else does he direct after these two? 824 00:36:57.900 --> 00:37:00.300 He does the name of the doctor and one other. 825 00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:02.820 Yeah, but he doesn't come back after series 7. 826 00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:05.760 He's only, he only directs episodes in series seven. 827 00:37:05.820 --> 00:37:08.219 He also directed dinosaurs on a spaceship, for instance. 828 00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:09.840 Oh, no, I thought that was good too. 829 00:37:09.900 --> 00:37:10.860 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 830 00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:12.599 Maybe he does the Crimson horror. 831 00:37:12.659 --> 00:37:13.440 I think that's other thing. 832 00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:15.059 Oh, yeah, well that's great. 833 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.579 So he only does episodes with Jenny. 834 00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:19.559 I love Jenny. 835 00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:36.360 It means that we introduce Ian McCallen. as the voice of the Great 836 00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:40.199 Intelligence, and we give the Great Intelligence a human aspect 837 00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:46.019 which is Richard E. Grant, who we always felt should have been in 838 00:37:46.019 --> 00:37:49.199 Doctor Who at some point, but... 839 00:37:49.260 --> 00:37:52.320 Well, he was he was the animated doctor. 840 00:37:52.380 --> 00:37:54.480 Like, he was kind of, he was the animated ninth doctor. 841 00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:57.119 And he is in curse of fatal death for about 2 minutes. 842 00:37:57.179 --> 00:37:58.139 Yeah, yeah. 843 00:37:58.139 --> 00:37:59.039 But it's so funny. 844 00:37:59.099 --> 00:38:00.599 He's sort of almost the doctor, but not. 845 00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:02.940 But if you're going to make him the doctor, you make him a 846 00:38:02.940 --> 00:38:03.239 villain. 847 00:38:03.300 --> 00:38:03.780 Absolutely. 848 00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:06.780 Especially because as Richard D. Grant has aged, he has become 849 00:38:06.780 --> 00:38:07.739 more sinister looking. 850 00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:10.079 Yes, he's no longer lick the mirror handsome. 851 00:38:10.380 --> 00:38:12.719 Like the mirror handsome. 852 00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:17.519 He does that. that underbite thing that he has. 853 00:38:17.579 --> 00:38:20.280 Like, he's got this strange way of delivering his lines as the 854 00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:20.699 greatest. 855 00:38:20.699 --> 00:38:24.480 He's a bit too clenched, perhaps, but what I think of is the way 856 00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:29.639 that the Mara is explained in snake dance, which gives it a sort 857 00:38:29.639 --> 00:38:34.920 of weird space explanation without ruining it without destroying 858 00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:37.980 its kind of underlying mythic nature. 859 00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:43.980 I think that's perhaps one of the best examples of bringing back a 860 00:38:43.980 --> 00:38:46.440 monster and doing something different with it. 861 00:38:46.500 --> 00:38:49.260 And I think this does a very good job of that as well. 862 00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:51.719 Snake Dance is also a Mara origin story. 863 00:38:51.780 --> 00:38:53.280 Yeah, that's what I mean. 864 00:38:53.340 --> 00:38:55.079 And it also has a Punch and Judy show in it. 865 00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:56.880 It does. 866 00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:57.659 There you go. 867 00:38:57.719 --> 00:39:00.539 Stephen Mauve had just watched Snake Dance somewhere, I know. 868 00:39:01.260 --> 00:39:08.699 And even the idea of just sentient snow is very, very simple and 869 00:39:08.699 --> 00:39:13.260 doesn't need a lot of explanation or work. silly. 870 00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:15.780 It's not sentient. 871 00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:17.280 It's sentient. 872 00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:19.199 It's empathic or something. 873 00:39:19.260 --> 00:39:21.119 I can't remember something. 874 00:39:21.179 --> 00:39:21.480 Yeah. 875 00:39:21.539 --> 00:39:24.659 But it imitates, it mirrors what it sees around it. 876 00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:27.599 And that's incredibly simple. 877 00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:32.039 And yet it underlies a whole heap of phenomena, including the 878 00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:35.639 scary ice governess and I love it, but I love all of that. 879 00:39:35.699 --> 00:39:38.519 Like, you know, the ponder still frozen over and she fell in there 880 00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:39.300 and she died. 881 00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:41.579 And like the 1st time through when I watched it, I didn't pick up 882 00:39:41.579 --> 00:39:44.400 a lot of that, like it was only in subsequent viewings that I 883 00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:47.159 realised how much that was connected with little lines and I just 884 00:39:47.159 --> 00:39:51.900 love how he's outside with his no making device, you know, the 885 00:39:51.900 --> 00:39:52.380 ring. 886 00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:54.360 That's great. 887 00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:56.400 It's like a Dyson snowmaker. 888 00:39:57.599 --> 00:40:01.980 But also, like the fact that Clara's expecting the doctor to come 889 00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:05.219 upstairs and then it's the ice governess and they've got to defeat 890 00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:07.380 her and break her apart and she keeps on humming. 891 00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:10.800 And I love the fact that, you know, Digby or whatever saw a dead 892 00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:11.880 cow, you know? 893 00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:13.380 I think that's a great line. 894 00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:14.219 Great, aren't they? 895 00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:17.280 But it's so sort of a bit gruesome the way, you know, the 896 00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:20.159 governors, the previous governors had fallen into the lake and it 897 00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:21.840 froze, she drowned and it froze over. 898 00:40:21.900 --> 00:40:23.880 I mean, it's quite actually a bit gruesome. 899 00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:24.960 But that's kind of Victorian. 900 00:40:25.019 --> 00:40:26.880 You know, that sort of weird macabre. 901 00:40:27.539 --> 00:40:28.860 Yes, yes, exactly. 902 00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:30.179 Absolutely. absolutely absolutely. 903 00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:33.900 And the girl is having bad dreams and yeah, yeah. 904 00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:34.679 Yeah. 905 00:40:34.739 --> 00:40:38.880 Well, again, we have that idea that we see the snowman appear 906 00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:45.119 because Clara is remembering them from before and we have... 907 00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:46.019 Is that frame? 908 00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:50.880 Yeah, so Franny is dreaming about the governess being angry and 909 00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:56.340 Simeon is aware that we have ice that has learnt to imitate her 910 00:40:56.340 --> 00:41:02.099 body and we have the psychic stuff coming from Franny's dreams 911 00:41:02.099 --> 00:41:04.559 which is going to animate the governess. 912 00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:07.860 And so it all works really tightly. 913 00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:13.139 It all is explained without giving us laborious explanation. 914 00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:15.059 Overexplaining. 915 00:41:15.179 --> 00:41:17.039 It works thematically as well. 916 00:41:17.099 --> 00:41:19.139 It's one of the reasons that, you know, you've got to love 917 00:41:19.139 --> 00:41:23.400 Stephen's writing because even in a nice Christmas romp like this 918 00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:25.079 there's things happening. 919 00:41:25.139 --> 00:41:29.699 So the great intelligence and Simeon are both kind of analogues 920 00:41:29.699 --> 00:41:33.239 for the doctor in the story because the great intelligence goes 921 00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:37.619 back and basically corrupts a child to become its vessel and do 922 00:41:37.619 --> 00:41:38.219 what it wants. 923 00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:41.639 And the doctor's been doing that all season and basically all 924 00:41:41.639 --> 00:41:42.119 doctor. 925 00:41:42.179 --> 00:41:44.280 So, you know, he thought nothing about playing around in Amy 926 00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:46.260 Pond's childhood as Amelia. 927 00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:48.599 In the Rings of Akatan, he'll do that to Clara. 928 00:41:48.659 --> 00:41:51.239 He'll go back and sort of, you know, have a play around with her 929 00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:51.659 past. 930 00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:54.900 He did it with Kasran Sardik now that I'm thinking about it. 931 00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:56.820 And then you get Simeon as well. 932 00:41:56.880 --> 00:42:01.139 And Simeon is a lonely boy, and the doctor, he'll, Stephen will 933 00:42:01.139 --> 00:42:04.320 explicitly return to that and listen and show the doctor as a 934 00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:06.840 lonely boy, who grew up to be a bad person. 935 00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:10.619 And it's been shown many times in the new series, that the doctor 936 00:42:10.619 --> 00:42:14.699 needs people around him to temper him and make him a good person. 937 00:42:14.820 --> 00:42:17.460 And so he's just playing them both off against the doctor. 938 00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:20.039 And so this stuff happening under the surface in a jolly Christmas 939 00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:20.579 romp. 940 00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:24.059 It's really interesting you talking about Simeon being a young boy 941 00:42:24.059 --> 00:42:28.619 and then we see him like being the older man and dying being 942 00:42:28.619 --> 00:42:29.039 killed off. 943 00:42:29.099 --> 00:42:31.860 I don't actually feel sorry for him at all. 944 00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:33.960 Like, I mean, I guess we're supposed to. 945 00:42:34.019 --> 00:42:37.619 It's actually the 1st episode of Clara's run with Miss Kisman. 946 00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:40.500 That the one that gets to me because she's taken over by the great 947 00:42:40.500 --> 00:42:43.980 intelligence and at the end, she's a little girl with her voice. 948 00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:46.380 That's the one that affects me every time I watch it. 949 00:42:46.500 --> 00:42:48.000 It is a bit similar, isn't it? 950 00:42:48.059 --> 00:42:51.659 Like he's kind of losing some decades of his memory by being 951 00:42:51.659 --> 00:42:55.079 bitten by the worm and ends up being taken over by the great 952 00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:55.739 intelligence. 953 00:42:55.800 --> 00:43:00.539 I actually think the title has more than one meaning. 954 00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:06.239 And the snowmen are the doctor and Simeon, because we have this 955 00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:12.059 idea where the weather reflects the emotions that the characters 956 00:43:12.059 --> 00:43:13.079 are experiencing. 957 00:43:13.139 --> 00:43:19.980 And so it's the family weeping over the death of Clara that turns 958 00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:23.579 into rain, that washes away the snow. 959 00:43:23.579 --> 00:43:29.280 At the beginning of the episode, the doctor is trying not to feel 960 00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:30.059 anything. 961 00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:35.880 He's not feeling curiosity or kindness, he's walled himself up 962 00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:39.179 from human contact because he doesn't want to be hurt again. 963 00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:42.300 So he's frozen as well. 964 00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:47.159 And then you get the little boy who is scared of the other 965 00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:50.880 children, who doesn't want to have anything to do with them, who 966 00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:55.500 creates this imaginary friend that just reflects that loneliness 967 00:43:55.500 --> 00:43:56.280 back to him. 968 00:43:56.340 --> 00:43:59.340 And he physically becomes frozen. doesn't he? 969 00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:01.980 When the great intelligence takes over his body. 970 00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:03.119 He's frozen. 971 00:44:03.179 --> 00:44:07.199 We have a scene where the doctor is frozen as well by the great 972 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:07.980 intelligence. 973 00:44:08.039 --> 00:44:12.360 And so in a way, the snowmen are Simeon and the doctor, as much as 974 00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:17.159 they are, the sort of hilarious comedy snowmen that appear. 975 00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:19.559 And all of this at 650 on Christmas Day. 976 00:44:19.619 --> 00:44:20.519 Yeah, yeah. 977 00:44:20.579 --> 00:44:21.300 Yeah. 978 00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:40.380 So, is the fact that the Great Intelligence come back, and that 979 00:44:40.380 --> 00:44:43.260 there's a reference to the, specifically the web of fear, rather 980 00:44:43.260 --> 00:44:44.760 than the probable snowman. 981 00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:49.739 What is known, and this is a question, about the fact that the 982 00:44:49.739 --> 00:44:53.099 recovery of the web of fear was known but not public at the time 983 00:44:53.099 --> 00:44:54.059 that this was made. 984 00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:57.840 I mean, it certainly would have been playing on Stephen's mind. 985 00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:00.780 Because he was one of the people who knew about it. 986 00:45:00.780 --> 00:45:01.440 Who knew about it? 987 00:45:01.500 --> 00:45:01.860 Yeah, yeah. 988 00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:08.460 And so, because this season originally was kind of a reaction 989 00:45:08.460 --> 00:45:14.940 against 6 and so we don't have the complex serialisation that we 990 00:45:14.940 --> 00:45:18.900 had in 6 and those sort of interlocking elements and everything 991 00:45:18.900 --> 00:45:20.639 was going to be a movie of the week. 992 00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:26.460 But in spite of that, you know, unable to help himself, I mean 993 00:45:26.460 --> 00:45:31.500 there is a character arc with Amy and Rory and the doctor in the 994 00:45:31.500 --> 00:45:32.760 1st half of the season. 995 00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:38.460 And then there are 2 elements, I think, in the 2nd half, which is 996 00:45:38.460 --> 00:45:41.820 the great intelligence. 997 00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:45.239 So he's chosen to have a sort of miniarch about the great 998 00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:50.579 intelligence because perhaps he's aware that the web of fear is 999 00:45:50.579 --> 00:45:50.820 back. 1000 00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:54.900 And as far as I recall, the snowmen were shot very late in the run 1001 00:45:54.900 --> 00:45:56.039 so very close to transmission. 1002 00:45:56.099 --> 00:45:57.119 Right, okay. 1003 00:45:57.179 --> 00:46:01.559 And, and of course, who is Clara is the other one. 1004 00:46:01.619 --> 00:46:04.860 And it's interesting that. 1005 00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:10.019 So Russell kills Kylie on Christmas Day. which is a bit of a 1006 00:46:10.019 --> 00:46:10.559 downer. 1007 00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:17.039 And and Moffatt kills Jenna, again, on Christmas Day. 1008 00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:18.420 Not so much of a downer. 1009 00:46:18.480 --> 00:46:21.360 Well, but it is that... 1010 00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:24.300 We should have seen it coming because the moment Clara kisses the 1011 00:46:24.300 --> 00:46:25.739 doctor, you know it's certain doom. 1012 00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:33.119 It's actually a little bit kind of horrible, I think. 1013 00:46:33.179 --> 00:46:36.840 And so what defeats the snowman? 1014 00:46:36.900 --> 00:46:44.639 What thaws the world that this story is in is the grief over the 1015 00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:48.480 loss of someone, their their governess? 1016 00:46:48.539 --> 00:46:53.579 And the doctor is experiencing grief over the loss of Amy and Rory 1017 00:46:53.579 --> 00:46:56.820 but his way of dealing with it has been to kind of shut himself 1018 00:46:56.820 --> 00:47:00.179 away from everything and to try and not feel it. 1019 00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:04.380 And so it's actually feeling grief that kind of resolves the 1020 00:47:04.380 --> 00:47:04.860 story. 1021 00:47:05.460 --> 00:47:10.860 But there is something, like we've got a manic pixie dream girl 1022 00:47:10.860 --> 00:47:14.519 getting fridged, you know, now she's killed. 1023 00:47:14.579 --> 00:47:21.300 Do you, when she's lying on the snow, having just fallen and the 1024 00:47:21.300 --> 00:47:22.739 way the camera comes across her. 1025 00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:28.019 For me, it's very reminiscent of a classic series regeneration. 1026 00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:29.159 Okay. 1027 00:47:29.219 --> 00:47:30.420 Yes, you're right. 1028 00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:34.739 And giving her sort of, I mean, I don't know where that's 1029 00:47:34.739 --> 00:47:35.039 liberal. 1030 00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:37.619 That's probably just the way you know, a director will shoot 1031 00:47:37.619 --> 00:47:38.460 someone who's dying. 1032 00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:42.780 Because I said, that is one of the most beautiful moments of the 1033 00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:45.119 episode where they just hear the thud because obviously you don't 1034 00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:45.480 want to see it. 1035 00:47:45.539 --> 00:47:46.739 She's lying there. 1036 00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:48.539 The camera tracks in on her. 1037 00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:50.760 Even the thud though is the thud is quite graphic. 1038 00:47:50.820 --> 00:47:55.800 And then the doctor, when Vastra says, he's coming for her and the 1039 00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:57.059 TARS materialise around it. 1040 00:47:57.119 --> 00:47:58.139 That's a beautiful sequence. 1041 00:47:58.199 --> 00:47:59.219 Really? 1042 00:47:59.219 --> 00:48:00.059 Really nice. 1043 00:48:00.059 --> 00:48:01.380 Quite tear joking. 1044 00:48:02.219 --> 00:48:04.500 I just wanted her to live. 1045 00:48:05.340 --> 00:48:06.599 Like all throughout the episode. 1046 00:48:06.659 --> 00:48:07.920 I don't know. 1047 00:48:07.980 --> 00:48:09.420 Like, I mean, I think my memory cheats. 1048 00:48:09.480 --> 00:48:11.039 Like, I don't know if I expected her to die. 1049 00:48:11.099 --> 00:48:13.079 Like when she kissed the doctor, I thought that was concerning. 1050 00:48:13.139 --> 00:48:16.860 And of course, then they were up in the TARDIS and he gives it the 1051 00:48:16.860 --> 00:48:19.440 key and it's sort of like, well, this is too quick. know. 1052 00:48:19.500 --> 00:48:21.900 Whenever the doctor is inviting someone aboard. 1053 00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:22.440 That's it. 1054 00:48:22.500 --> 00:48:23.460 Yeah, that's for them. 1055 00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:24.840 Yeah, Linda with a Y. 1056 00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:28.739 Red flags. 1057 00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:29.400 Yeah, yeah. 1058 00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:32.639 You know, and then to be pulled out of the TARDIS in that slow 1059 00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:34.920 motion sequence. 1060 00:48:34.980 --> 00:48:38.940 I mean, it's all rather gorgeous, but I can understand it's 1061 00:48:38.940 --> 00:48:39.420 bleak. 1062 00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:41.039 The bleakness of it all. 1063 00:48:41.099 --> 00:48:43.739 If I can just pick up on that thing about handing the key over 1064 00:48:43.739 --> 00:48:46.559 regardless of whether it's a red flag for you, it's almost like 1065 00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:49.320 communicating something that is unspoken in the show, you know, why 1066 00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:51.659 does someone, why does this person become a companion and not that 1067 00:48:51.659 --> 00:48:51.900 person? 1068 00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.539 You know, I never know why I only know who. 1069 00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:58.320 I think it's that thing that we know a companion when we see one. 1070 00:48:58.380 --> 00:48:59.280 You know what I mean? 1071 00:48:59.340 --> 00:49:03.780 Well, I do think there is that moment where she draws the 1072 00:49:03.780 --> 00:49:05.099 conclusion about the umbrella. 1073 00:49:05.159 --> 00:49:08.159 Why has the doctor brought the umbrella with him and she does a 1074 00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:09.900 homes style deduction? 1075 00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:12.179 And so she's similar enough to him. 1076 00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:15.300 There are moments like that going right back to Rose where the 1077 00:49:15.300 --> 00:49:17.519 doctor looks at Rose after she says something particularly 1078 00:49:17.519 --> 00:49:18.900 perceptive and says, that's very good. 1079 00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:20.340 It's like this little movement. 1080 00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:21.599 The students. 1081 00:49:21.659 --> 00:49:23.579 The autons must be students. 1082 00:49:23.639 --> 00:49:24.480 Yeah. 1083 00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:27.539 I mean, I think they should have run with the doctor's companion 1084 00:49:27.539 --> 00:49:30.059 just becomes the 1st person that he sees because then we would 1085 00:49:30.059 --> 00:49:33.719 have had Sir Wester McCoy with the runny. would have been 1086 00:49:33.719 --> 00:49:34.019 awesome. 1087 00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:35.760 Well, she was dressed as man. 1088 00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:38.099 We had a few episodes of it. 1089 00:49:38.219 --> 00:49:40.980 Series 26 finale. 1090 00:49:41.039 --> 00:49:42.239 You mean you're not Mel? 1091 00:49:48.059 --> 00:49:52.679 It's a sequence on the roof with the governess after them when she 1092 00:49:52.679 --> 00:49:57.300 falls on top of the doctor and that whole exchange of dialogue and 1093 00:49:57.300 --> 00:49:59.760 just more Jenna delivers. 1094 00:49:59.820 --> 00:50:03.539 Just throughout this entire episode, I just loved her so much more 1095 00:50:03.539 --> 00:50:04.500 than Amy. 1096 00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:08.460 I'm going back to my original run and thoughts. 1097 00:50:08.579 --> 00:50:10.619 I didn't like Amy that much. 1098 00:50:10.619 --> 00:50:13.980 And quite often, what happens with me is that if I haven't liked 1099 00:50:13.980 --> 00:50:17.400 something, then the next one, the next person that comes along is 1100 00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:19.260 like fantastic. 1101 00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:21.599 Well, it's like Peter Davidson, Colin Colin. 1102 00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:22.679 Like, there's that. 1103 00:50:22.739 --> 00:50:24.480 So, you know, that transition is hard. 1104 00:50:24.539 --> 00:50:28.860 But for me, she just, throughout this entire episode, one of the 1105 00:50:28.860 --> 00:50:32.219 joys is the fact that it's not, at the time, it's not Amy. 1106 00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:36.059 Now, obviously I've come to love Amy so much more in Rory, but I 1107 00:50:36.059 --> 00:50:39.360 still love the fact that it's fresh and new because we've had 2.5 1108 00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:40.619 years ago. you know? 1109 00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:44.039 And then she gets to die. 1110 00:50:44.340 --> 00:50:50.280 Do you think we expect her to die because Oswald died in Asylum of 1111 00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:50.760 the Darlings? 1112 00:50:50.820 --> 00:50:51.420 I didn't. 1113 00:50:51.420 --> 00:50:53.400 I thought she was just going to be whisked off in the Tartars. 1114 00:50:53.460 --> 00:50:57.119 And it just seemed unlikely that we would have a character from 1115 00:50:57.119 --> 00:51:00.960 not the present day as a companion. 1116 00:51:01.019 --> 00:51:03.420 Yeah, but maybe that's what I was hoping. 1117 00:51:03.539 --> 00:51:03.719 Yeah. 1118 00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:06.780 Certainly people were saying that. would have liked that. 1119 00:51:06.840 --> 00:51:08.940 And Clara's very contemporary. 1120 00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:11.159 She doesn't use like barmaid Clara. 1121 00:51:11.219 --> 00:51:14.039 She doesn't use contemporary language, but in her attitudes and 1122 00:51:14.039 --> 00:51:15.119 the way that she works things out. 1123 00:51:15.179 --> 00:51:15.960 She's contemporary. 1124 00:51:16.019 --> 00:51:16.739 And she's not Victoria. 1125 00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:20.039 Yeah, and she's not so far in the past that she can't understand 1126 00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:21.179 new technology. 1127 00:51:21.239 --> 00:51:23.880 I think that's the thing that I just wanted to have a companion 1128 00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:26.699 that was from the past, you know? 1129 00:51:26.760 --> 00:51:29.940 Because when Madame Vastra is interviewing her to be the next 1130 00:51:29.940 --> 00:51:31.139 companion, actually. 1131 00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:35.280 Basically, it's not whether, you know, she knows what the internet 1132 00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:35.579 is. 1133 00:51:35.639 --> 00:51:39.360 It's whether her brain is open to concepts, new concepts and 1134 00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:39.659 ideas. 1135 00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:42.119 That's basically what Master is doing. 1136 00:51:42.179 --> 00:51:45.179 Yeah, that would have been amazing if that was Jenna Coleman's 1137 00:51:45.179 --> 00:51:47.460 actual audition with Stephen Mothad saying, why do you want this 1138 00:51:47.460 --> 00:51:47.699 role? 1139 00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:48.780 One word. 1140 00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:51.000 Jenna Coleman going, salary. 1141 00:51:51.059 --> 00:51:53.280 Yes, exactly. mortgage. 1142 00:51:55.139 --> 00:51:56.760 Career. 1143 00:51:57.659 --> 00:52:00.119 It does go on to be Queen Victoria's. 1144 00:52:00.179 --> 00:52:00.840 Yeah, yeah. 1145 00:52:00.840 --> 00:52:02.039 She does. 1146 00:52:02.099 --> 00:52:10.619 So I guess then what happens is that the doctor is animated by the 1147 00:52:10.619 --> 00:52:11.400 mystery? 1148 00:52:11.460 --> 00:52:14.400 He's withdrawn from 2 things, hasn't he? 1149 00:52:14.460 --> 00:52:17.699 He's withdrawn from solving the problem and he's withdrawn from 1150 00:52:17.699 --> 00:52:18.420 saving the day. 1151 00:52:18.420 --> 00:52:23.099 And we see him go back to solving the problem when he does that 1152 00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:27.300 ridiculous Sherlock Holmes thing, where he's super terrible at 1153 00:52:27.300 --> 00:52:28.559 being Sherlock Holmes. 1154 00:52:28.619 --> 00:52:33.840 And now he's also discovered that there's a problem. 1155 00:52:33.900 --> 00:52:38.400 The day has been saved, but it was kind of saved by Clara and the 1156 00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:39.059 family. 1157 00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:43.320 But now he has this mystery that's kind of animating him. 1158 00:52:43.380 --> 00:52:50.519 And I guess the death of Clara, in the 19th century is kind of 1159 00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:56.039 softened by our view of the Clara, who we now know, is going to be 1160 00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:57.780 the doctor's companion for the rest of the season. 1161 00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:02.820 But I love all the flashback dialogue, like, run you, Clipper boy 1162 00:53:02.820 --> 00:53:07.260 remember, and then cut into the to him at the grave, which, again 1163 00:53:07.260 --> 00:53:11.699 has Osmond, Clara Osmond Oswald, which is explained, I know. 1164 00:53:11.820 --> 00:53:16.019 It's so paper thin that I just dislike it intensely. 1165 00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:20.460 And then, of course, cutting to a more modern Clara in that same 1166 00:53:20.460 --> 00:53:26.460 position, again. conveniently so, but the universe is conspiring 1167 00:53:26.460 --> 00:53:30.840 to put her in that position and them into that position, which I 1168 00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:34.320 which I just love all that sort of, yeah, the threads that are 1169 00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:36.119 there that are binding that sort of together. 1170 00:53:36.179 --> 00:53:40.019 Yeah, even though I don't like the fact that she died in this 1171 00:53:40.019 --> 00:53:42.179 episode at the time, I was thinking, oh, like when we just picked 1172 00:53:42.179 --> 00:53:45.719 up the companion from this point, you need the 3rd Clara for it to 1173 00:53:45.719 --> 00:53:46.440 work at the end of the season. 1174 00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:48.300 It's not a pattern if it's just happened once before. 1175 00:53:48.360 --> 00:53:49.199 Yes, exactly. 1176 00:53:49.260 --> 00:53:50.099 You need the 3 of them. 1177 00:53:50.159 --> 00:53:50.340 Yeah. 1178 00:53:50.340 --> 00:53:50.639 Yeah. 1179 00:53:50.699 --> 00:53:53.159 Yeah, and Malford is so often criticised about killing off his 1180 00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:54.420 companions and then bringing them back. 1181 00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:56.639 Why not come up with an in universe reason? 1182 00:53:56.699 --> 00:53:57.059 Yeah, exactly. 1183 00:53:57.119 --> 00:54:00.659 I would have actually liked to have seen a Clara turn up in the 1184 00:54:00.659 --> 00:54:06.719 Wild West, like as they leave, like in a stagecoach, just to just 1185 00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:08.880 to have a link to what happens later on in the season. 1186 00:54:08.940 --> 00:54:12.659 And that one, because the Asylum of the Daleks and the snowman 1187 00:54:12.659 --> 00:54:15.659 Clara are our versions of Clara that don't remember the doctor 1188 00:54:15.659 --> 00:54:18.599 whereas you could have that one in, you know, a town called Mercy 1189 00:54:18.599 --> 00:54:20.940 turn up at the stagecoach just as they're leaving and she's one 1190 00:54:20.940 --> 00:54:23.460 that actually knows who the doctor is running up going, doctor 1191 00:54:23.460 --> 00:54:23.699 wait. 1192 00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:26.340 Belt out the chorus to the last chance. 1193 00:54:28.500 --> 00:54:31.559 Maybe that's something that he was trying to avoid, even though 1194 00:54:31.559 --> 00:54:34.500 there are those mini arcs and mini character developments. 1195 00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:38.159 What you don't get in this season is all of these endless sort of 1196 00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:41.400 at the end of the episode, some reference to the ongoing plot. 1197 00:54:41.460 --> 00:54:43.500 I think that's possibly what he was trying to avoid. 1198 00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:45.300 Yeah, so he's reacting to what he did like. 1199 00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:46.500 Yes, yes, yes, again. 1200 00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:46.980 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1201 00:54:47.099 --> 00:54:50.460 The one thing that I was a bit disappointed about was the fact 1202 00:54:50.460 --> 00:54:53.039 that Vastra just gets knocked out in one second. 1203 00:54:53.099 --> 00:54:57.059 Yeah, I would have liked to have seen her do more fighting. 1204 00:54:57.119 --> 00:54:58.920 Well, just do a bit more. 1205 00:54:58.980 --> 00:55:02.519 I mean, she has her one sequence, but then that's about it, really 1206 00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:04.619 for her. anyway, that's a minor thing. 1207 00:55:04.679 --> 00:55:08.760 I just think that this episode, and I link it to the 1st half of 1208 00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:13.320 the season, is that the 5 episodes we've seen previously, it's all 1209 00:55:13.320 --> 00:55:16.260 building, and although I think the power of 3 is slightly weaker 1210 00:55:16.260 --> 00:55:18.840 than the rest, but I think Angels is great. 1211 00:55:18.900 --> 00:55:21.659 I just love this even more and it's sort of like the anticipation 1212 00:55:21.659 --> 00:55:25.619 for the 2nd half of the season and sort of like, it's only going 1213 00:55:25.619 --> 00:55:29.699 to get better, but I could be massively let down, like, like, could 1214 00:55:29.699 --> 00:55:30.119 you? 1215 00:55:30.420 --> 00:55:34.980 I have been watching ahead and, but you know, you run that risk of 1216 00:55:34.980 --> 00:55:37.800 then saying you wanted to keep getting better and better and you 1217 00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:41.099 know that there's only, you know, so far episodes can go. 1218 00:55:41.159 --> 00:55:43.679 I mean, compared to the patchiness of series 6. 1219 00:55:43.739 --> 00:55:46.260 This has been a remarkable return for. 1220 00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:49.739 This is a really solid run. 2012 is a pretty good year for Doctor 1221 00:55:49.739 --> 00:55:50.340 Who, I think. 1222 00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:52.260 All 6 episodes. 1223 00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:52.920 Yeah. 1224 00:56:16.980 --> 00:56:20.400 Well, hey, listener, that's all we have time for, for now. 1225 00:56:20.460 --> 00:56:25.619 We'll be back soon with the second half of Series 7 in the Bells 1226 00:56:25.619 --> 00:56:25.980 of St. 1227 00:56:25.980 --> 00:56:26.460 John. 1228 00:56:26.519 --> 00:56:30.239 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts 1229 00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:33.179 and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook 1230 00:56:33.179 --> 00:56:36.300 at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website 1231 00:56:36.300 --> 00:56:39.360 FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other 1232 00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:44.699 podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Intertera, Maximum Power, and Untitled 1233 00:56:44.699 --> 00:56:45.840 Star Trek Project. 1234 00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:50.460 Until next time, run, you clever boy, and remember. 1235 00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:53.159 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 1236 00:56:53.219 --> 00:56:54.599 See you soon. 1237 00:56:54.659 --> 00:56:55.440 Good night. 1238 00:56:55.500 --> 00:56:56.039 Bye bye. 1239 00:57:00.420 --> 00:57:04.139 That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd, we'll be Nathan 1240 00:57:04.139 --> 00:57:06.059 Bottomley, Peter Grifferson, Simon Moore. 1241 00:57:06.119 --> 00:57:08.099 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 1242 00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:11.460 This episode, good smugness, was recorded on the 24th of April 1243 00:57:11.460 --> 00:57:14.099 2022 and released on the 25th of July. 1244 00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:20.280 Simon Moore and Peter Griffiths will be returning in the next 1245 00:57:20.280 --> 00:57:24.420 season of FTE Playhouses, Holmes and Watson in The Mystery of the 1246 00:57:24.420 --> 00:57:27.000 People who Don't Like the Partagnoster Game very much for some 1247 00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:30.719 reason, available from all of the least discriminating audiobook 1248 00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:31.260 services. 1249 00:57:31.260 --> 00:57:32.880 Merry Christmas, everyone. 1250 00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:37.679 That's it. 1251 00:57:37.739 --> 00:57:38.280 What do you think? 1252 00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:40.380 Yeah, yeah. 1253 00:57:40.380 --> 00:57:43.260 I mean, I had a line about, I only had a line about the fact that 1254 00:57:43.260 --> 00:57:47.280 the Mary Poppins routine, I thought, was nicely done, but not too 1255 00:57:47.280 --> 00:57:48.000 overplayed. 1256 00:57:48.059 --> 00:57:48.719 I thought that was lovely. 1257 00:57:48.780 --> 00:57:51.840 I think Mary Poppins is better when she comes back in series 1258 00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:52.320 eight. 1259 00:57:53.340 --> 00:57:54.960 Far out. 1260 00:57:55.019 --> 00:57:58.380 She's so good And it's smaller on the inside. don't like that line 1261 00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:01.860 smaller on the outside. whatever. smaller on the outside. 1262 00:58:01.920 --> 00:58:04.559 I do like it when the staircase is taller on the inside. 1263 00:58:04.619 --> 00:58:06.119 Yeah, that's fair. 1264 00:58:06.300 --> 00:58:09.059 Do you know, they use that as the promotional image. 1265 00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:10.739 You know, each episode was meant to be a movie. 1266 00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:12.239 And so I had one big hero image. 1267 00:58:12.300 --> 00:58:15.420 The image is the doctor and Clara clinging to that ladder on the 1268 00:58:15.420 --> 00:58:15.719 cloud. 1269 00:58:15.780 --> 00:58:16.380 It's amazing. 1270 00:58:16.440 --> 00:58:18.000 So good, isn't it? 1271 00:58:18.059 --> 00:58:18.900 It's so beautiful. 1272 00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:21.059 Yeah I mean, it's... 1273 00:58:21.059 --> 00:58:25.380 So where are we, where are we putting it in Christmas specials? 1274 00:58:25.500 --> 00:58:26.460 Moffin writes 10. 1275 00:58:26.699 --> 00:58:28.739 This is one of my top ones. 1276 00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:32.340 Hey, right, 10 Christmas movies. seasons are all spread out. 1277 00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:34.079 I'm going to put this at number 3. 1278 00:58:34.260 --> 00:58:37.199 So a Christmas Carol. 1279 00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:37.860 Number two. 1280 00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:39.900 Christmas Carol's 2 for you. 1281 00:58:39.960 --> 00:58:41.760 No, time of the doctor. 1282 00:58:41.820 --> 00:58:42.539 Absolutely, yeah. 1283 00:58:42.539 --> 00:58:44.280 I'm a doctor. not like that at first. 1284 00:58:44.340 --> 00:58:45.539 No, I love it. 1285 00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:46.440 Really? 1286 00:58:46.500 --> 00:58:49.619 It took time to work out what, what's going on? 1287 00:58:49.679 --> 00:58:52.139 And I still think there are ways you could improve the script. 1288 00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:56.099 Yes, to give it a little bit more coherence, but I like it a lot. 1289 00:58:56.219 --> 00:58:57.000 Yeah, yeah. 1290 00:58:57.059 --> 00:59:01.019 I probably put this one at three. fractionally behind time of the 1291 00:59:01.019 --> 00:59:01.380 doctor. 1292 00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:04.800 But a Christmas carol's just still going to be deep. streets ahead 1293 00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:06.900 of everything just because it's phenomenal. 1294 00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:10.500 Do you know, I secretly like the Return of Dr. Mysterio, even 1295 00:59:10.500 --> 00:59:12.539 though it's a terrible Christmas special. 1296 00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:13.440 That's actually fun. 1297 00:59:13.500 --> 00:59:16.199 I think last Christmas is magnificently. 1298 00:59:16.260 --> 00:59:17.639 Christmas is magnificent. 1299 00:59:17.699 --> 00:59:19.980 I put this, I put this near the top. 1300 00:59:20.039 --> 00:59:21.840 Like I think I like a... 1301 00:59:22.139 --> 00:59:26.280 I think I prefer to watch it. over a Christmas carol um because of 1302 00:59:26.280 --> 00:59:27.420 the work I have to do with that. 1303 00:59:27.480 --> 00:59:30.480 I also love Voyage of the Damned every single time. 1304 00:59:30.539 --> 00:59:34.139 It's got highly and it's Russell and all of that. 1305 00:59:34.199 --> 00:59:36.239 And you doesn't want to hit a bum nose at Christmas. 1306 00:59:36.300 --> 00:59:38.699 You don't want... sorry, Brendan, the doctor, the widow and the 1307 00:59:38.699 --> 00:59:41.039 wardrobe. and you don't want the end of time part one. 1308 00:59:41.099 --> 00:59:42.599 No. 1309 00:59:42.599 --> 00:59:44.460 Well, at the end of time, part one's not really a Christmas 1310 00:59:44.460 --> 00:59:46.739 special. coincidentally on Christmas, isn't it? 1311 00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:49.079 I'm really surprised how much you... 1312 00:59:49.139 --> 00:59:51.780 Guys are into time of the doctor as a Christmas special. 1313 00:59:51.840 --> 00:59:54.719 I guess I haven't got up to that watching yet. 1314 00:59:54.780 --> 00:59:56.880 So I'm going to be really interested to see what I do think of it 1315 00:59:56.880 --> 00:59:58.619 as a Christmas sort of special. 1316 00:59:58.679 --> 01:00:00.960 I think it's the 2nd best Matt Smith story. 1317 01:00:01.079 --> 01:00:01.860 Really? 1318 01:00:01.860 --> 01:00:02.280 Wow. 1319 01:00:02.340 --> 01:00:03.119 Yeah. 1320 01:00:03.179 --> 01:00:06.119 I mean, it's also, for me, the circumstances under which I watched 1321 01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:07.860 it and I'll go into this more detail. 1322 01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:08.760 I think I won the episode. 1323 01:00:09.179 --> 01:00:12.239 I was we were in Poland. 1324 01:00:12.300 --> 01:00:16.739 And because it was the Brian didn't want to watch it on an iPad 1325 01:00:16.739 --> 01:00:18.840 but I thought, no, no, no, because I didn't want to be spoiled by 1326 01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:20.460 how the document was. 1327 01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:23.159 I thought, no, no, no, on, on, I think it was Boxing Day. 1328 01:00:23.219 --> 01:00:25.139 Well, maybe it was, yeah, it would have been Boxing Day. 1329 01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:28.079 I was in the hotel, you know, we had a kind of siesta cocktail 1330 01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:34.679 hour and I was sitting on the bed watching it on an iPad mini with 1331 01:00:34.679 --> 01:00:38.280 headphones in completely enclosed in the cold with like, you know 1332 01:00:38.280 --> 01:00:42.000 Krakov outside was quite magical for me. 1333 01:00:42.059 --> 01:00:45.719 And I think the circumstances in how you watch an episode, I think 1334 01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:49.260 cannot be under stated in terms of how you enjoy it. 1335 01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:52.980 I was under complete duress for the Doctor the widow of the 1336 01:00:52.980 --> 01:00:53.579 wardrobe. 1337 01:00:53.639 --> 01:00:55.860 And that was just watching and I didn't need any other. 1338 01:00:55.980 --> 01:01:03.480 I watched the very last Christmas special, which was twice upon a 1339 01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:03.659 time. 1340 01:01:03.719 --> 01:01:08.639 In the 1st class lounge at Dubai Airport at 3 o'clock in the 1341 01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:13.260 morning and I've never watched it again since and I really hated 1342 01:01:13.260 --> 01:01:13.559 it. 1343 01:01:13.619 --> 01:01:17.820 But I am almost certain that that's because I was sleep deprived 1344 01:01:17.820 --> 01:01:22.800 that in this sort of weird liminal space between one place and 1345 01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:23.099 another. 1346 01:01:23.159 --> 01:01:24.239 One universe and another. 1347 01:01:24.300 --> 01:01:27.420 I think that was also a real flex that you managed to get. 1348 01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:27.840 Yeah, yeah. 1349 01:01:27.900 --> 01:01:29.400 Well, he didn't crack off, all right? 1350 01:01:29.519 --> 01:01:31.739 You see, I quite like... 1351 01:01:31.739 --> 01:01:33.360 There's a lovely hotel on the main square too. 1352 01:01:33.420 --> 01:01:34.380 It was beautiful. 1353 01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:35.460 And it was so suited. 1354 01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:38.039 But no, but yeah, that would have ruined it for me because you're 1355 01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:41.519 in this, yeah, foreign space. foreign space, not like being in a 1356 01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:44.940 foreign country, but yeah, as you say, it's like interstitial time 1357 01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:45.719 0 room. 1358 01:01:45.780 --> 01:01:48.360 The gap between now and now. 1359 01:01:49.260 --> 01:01:52.260 You expect a Gundan to come in and start. 1360 01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:53.699 Although at least you wouldn't have paid. 1361 01:01:53.699 --> 01:01:55.800 Did you have people constantly interrupting you wanting to give 1362 01:01:55.800 --> 01:01:56.699 you food and drinks? 1363 01:01:56.820 --> 01:01:58.860 No, no, no, no, because it's basically dessert. 1364 01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:00.239 Basically dessert. 1365 01:02:00.300 --> 01:02:04.079 But stupidly brightly linked. everybody puts that episode down. 1366 01:02:04.139 --> 01:02:05.579 I don't think it's as bad as everybody says. 1367 01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:07.559 It probably is better than I think, but it is. 1368 01:02:07.619 --> 01:02:09.000 Yeah, I quite like it. 1369 01:02:09.059 --> 01:02:11.219 But there's just one problem. 1370 01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:14.400 That's the characterisation of the 1st doctor, but that's another 1371 01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:14.699 time. 1372 01:02:14.760 --> 01:02:17.460 Oh, it's kind of what happens even when you get a genius like 1373 01:02:17.460 --> 01:02:20.579 Stephen Motha when he's forced to carve 5 minutes off the end of 1374 01:02:20.579 --> 01:02:22.559 the last episode and whip it up into something. 1375 01:02:22.619 --> 01:02:23.579 That's right. 1376 01:02:23.639 --> 01:02:24.960 Yes, yes. a bit rough. 1377 01:02:25.019 --> 01:02:26.940 All right, I'm going to stop. 1378 01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:29.340 That might be a tag, actually, because I do like that conversation 1379 01:02:29.340 --> 01:02:30.599 about Christmas. 1380 01:02:30.659 --> 01:02:32.280 Okay, specials, you think? 1381 01:02:32.340 --> 01:02:34.079 This context is very important. 1382 01:02:34.199 --> 01:02:35.099 100%