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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:20:44

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight to Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that's really worried about having Richard E. Grant living in our plumbing.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm James.

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I'm Peter.

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Well, it's the 1st episode of a new season, sort of.

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And so the doctor's back on earth meeting his new companion for the 1st time, sort of.

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It's 2013.

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We're living in a Wi-Fi soup and Habo Hotel is the biggest thing on the internet.

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And it turns out that the ringing in our ears is the bells of St.

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John.

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Or as I like to call it, what Claudia Bing did next.

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Yeah, we finally have Celia, Emory, Star Wars, Celia, Emory.

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Celia Emory of Bing, bing, bing, bing.

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So she does actually fly one of those Naboo spaceships in the Phantom Menace.

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Her son Angus is 0 on Star Trek prodigy.

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So this is a pretty serious kind of... was her grandmother and the tomorrow people.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Every scene.

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She was the Clara of the tomorrow people.

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She was Taiso.

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Such a versatile actress.

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Yeah, I feel like Celia Imory's casting in this is Moffat going, all right, yes, I should have given Olivia Coleman more to do here.

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Have Celia Emory. being just fabulous and evil and delicious.

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So she is kind of the Miss Foster of this episode because I think everyone more or less says that this is like an RTD season opener.

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Yeah, totally.

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Like, it's a modern day story.

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We get to see what Clara's life is like through a montage at the beginning before, you know, the doctor gets involved.

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We've got major London landmarks.

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Yeah.

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I thinking about that.

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Is it actually the 1st time we visited modern day recognisable central London since aliens of London, World War III?

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Central London.

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Yeah, recognisable St.

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Paul's Cathedral, Charlotte.

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Yeah.

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I mean, you know, I remember at the time thinking that I missed London during the early Moffat era around about this time, that there was something, there was something sort of +and optimistic and exciting about having Doctor Who and having Doctor Who in recognisable London rather than somewhere cheaper or somewhere kind of less interesting.

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That's right, the sidemen marching down the steps of, you know, Chichester cathedral. wouldn't quiet work with it.

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Yes, of course, this is pre-break, isn't it?

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You know, I think that's the thing, James, because when Doctor 2 1st came back, it was all that kind of new labour, kind of a British brand and all of that, whereas, you know, after 2010, it had all kind of soured slightly, so we just didn't visit London as much.

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Although this was produced around when London had the Olympics.

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Oh, yeah.

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And there's been a lot of talk since the Brexit vote, it's like, you know, in 2012, all eyes were on the UK and we were this shining beacon of culture and sport and multiculturalism.

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And then 4 years later, this happens.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I think that sort of attitude and that sort of pride is sort of typified by the scene where they land on the south bank and the doctor pulls out his fez and he's taken back because you see buskers on the south bank all the time in London.

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But it's a confident thing of showing off Doctor Who in its 50th anniversary year, showing off, you know, this is a British institution, and this is a proudly British institution.

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And when I was rewatching this episode, I remembered that scene coming up and I'm like, I want to see if this is smug, if this is too much.

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And I'm like, no, I think this is pitch just right.

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This is pride in the series.

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Yeah.

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Not, um, this isn't a bragging moment, but this is a we're here and this show is fabulous moment.

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I was kind of taken back to Rose by that scene on the South Bank.

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But I also think there's something to be said for going back as far as things like the invasion and the war machines.

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And also, given the great intelligence connection, the web of fear, obviously, you're going to be in central London.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So the web of fear had been just rediscovered in the previous few months or something?

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I don't think we knew then officially.

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Ah.

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BBC New, but weird.

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Ah, so hence Moffatt knew, which is why we're doing this sort of thing.

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I mean, the shard.

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And I remember seeing the shard for the 1st time and actually not really believing it and like, I can't remember when I had previously been to London, but it was a few years before the shard existed.

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And so there's the shard in this.

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And then, you know, 5 years later, I think is the most recent time I've been in London, thanks to various circumstances beyond our control.

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And just seeing the shard down the end of the street.

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It's so strange, isn't it?

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Our CBD. and point at it and go, shut.

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Well, it's our CBD in Sydney is just full of skyscrapers like any kind of New World City.

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And London is surprisingly different. increasingly so.

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Yeah, yeah, but, you know, in really upsetting way.

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But also it's a South Bank skyscraper and you don't get them.

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Right.

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There's very few skyscrapers south of the river.

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I think it's a grading inclusion because it is like the way that Russell included the Gherkin in Christmas invasion and that that clock tower in aliens of London.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, with a backwards block face.

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Whatever it's called.

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Oh, and you know, like putting unit under the Tower of London and having the Thames flood things house the Raknos and all of that sort of stuff.

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We talked in our rise of the psidemen episode about having all of the population of London walk into Battersea Power Station to be sawn up.

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You know, like all of that stuff was great.

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I really, really missed it because I think at the time I said, this is Russell Enchanting London, you know, making London a place where lots of Doctor Who stories have happened.

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And so it's nice to see Moffatt borrowing that as well.

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It's the double-edged sword.

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Much like the shard.

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You know, you see Moffat kind of go, okay, I'm going to show you what regional England looks like with Ledworth and what have you.

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Later Chris Chipner will say, well, what about Sheffield?

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And Moffatt, of course, will say, well, what about Bristol?

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And, you know, it's kind of like, yes, all these places, their centres of culture and learning and what have you.

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But a lot of international audiences look at it and go, where's London?

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Yeah.

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You know, and I think I think that's a great shame.

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I haven't been to Sheffield, but I have been to Bristol and Bristols. bloody wonderful.

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And you've never been to me.

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That was the previous season.

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But the, I mean, you know, Ledworth isn't a real place and it is a village from a storybook.

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I mean, it is, you know, series 5 moves Doctor Who out of the real world.

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Yeah, but London of Doctor Who is not... is a romanticised London because it's based around all these landmarks as well.

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It's just trying to do that in other places.

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An international audience doesn't recognise it as much as London.

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It's like torchwood making can't have happened.

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It's why rom-coms are set in New York and not in, I don't know, Philadelphia.

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Yeah.

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No, Antonio Badderas.

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Tom Hanks, laugh a minute.

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I think that that shot of Matt Smith riding the motorcycle up the side of the shard is absolutely superb.

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And, you know, I was actually expecting it to be a little bit crummy just from my memory of it, but I think it just falls on the right side of what we're able to do.

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There was a feeling I had coming back to this season that it was a season of excess.

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You know, the show's on a high.

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It's building up to the 50th anniversary.

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I had a feeling, oh, you know, there's going to be moments where they go too far and they should have been someone tapping Stephen on the shoulder and saying, no, rein it in, rein it in.

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But I think that scene of going up the shard is a great example of the fact that he was still in control because now, 1st of all, it would have been very difficult to financially afford the shot of the doctor breaking through the glass on the motorcycle.

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Yeah, yeah.

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But I think the bigger reason they don't do it is it would have been irresponsible to show it, you know, because that is an imitable stunt that a child could do on attempt to do on their bike.

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And it's like, no, no, no, we're going to do it with sound effects and we're going to show that it's dangerous because there's going to be a wind whipping through and whatnot.

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It's like, okay, no, that is actually some very subtle thought going into that.

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But as a sitcom writer.

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Moffatt must know the importance of the offscreen comedy smashing noise.

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You know, like that is, and it is properly funny.

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Spearhead from Space.

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But, you know, then this Kiselet comes into the office and says, sorry about the draft.

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Yeah, it's great.

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And I think that in series seven, the technology is caught up with the HD as well.

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You've had a couple of rupee effects in the previous seasons through no faults of their own, but they're kind of, they're writing the ship now.

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Yeah, I mean, I think this is slightly ropey and no one watching it.

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Doctor Who rope.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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No one watching it is going to think that Matt Smith is really riding a motorcycle vertically up the side of the shard.

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Probably.

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Oh, you've destroyed it.

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They actually laid the shard down.

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And tilted the camera.

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It came in when they were constructing it before it was hoisted up.

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Yeah, okay, fair enough.

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Bert Ward was actually hanging behind him in the 1st take.

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Suddenly Davis.

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Jr.

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I never saw any of this on confidential.

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Well, you see, it's only on the original broadcast version and then they cuddle that out for DVD and they don't put in enough Danny Hargreaves.

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Yeah.

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It's no such thing as enough, Tannyhark. quite.

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Wait, where was I?

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This is also obviously, as an RTD season opener, our chance to meet a new companion.

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So how do we feel about how Clara ends up coming across in this 1st episode?

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I don't hate Clara in this 1st episode?

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And at some undetermined point in the future?

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I do stop liking her, but not here.

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Yeah.

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Well, as Brendan puts it.

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Which Clara?

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Yeah.

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All of them.

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Yeah.

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Like there are so many Claras.

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Yeah, like I've always been of the opinion that Clara is written as a different character in each of her 3 series and always brilliantly played by Jenna, but I adore this one.

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She is funny.

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She's capable of, you know, being a bit caustic without being mean.

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There's that beautiful bit, which is, I think, is only a 2nd or 3rd line when she's sort of gently pushing Angie.

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Oh, have you done this?

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Have you done that?

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And Angie says, you're not my mum and Clara says, and I'm not trying to be.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And it's a really sweet and sensitive moment that tells you what's happened before she has to explain it to the doctor at the end.

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Yeah, I think Jenna makes a great impression this episode.

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And somehow, you know, manages to do all those likeable things without becoming unreal.

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There's a lightness of touch to the characterisation, which maybe gets lost in later seasons with different versions of the character.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think that she's the absolutely generic companion in this episode and this season, and I don't mean that as a bad thing.

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I think she's, she's kind of Sarah Jane Smith redux in the fact that she just, she comes in, she does all the perfect companion things.

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She's played really well.

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She doesn't have a whole lot of character, and that's actually a classic series companion.

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It's powered by the performance.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I think that that's it.

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I'm not super convinced that we have lots of different Claras because I do think that Jenna is holding it all together with her performance and, you know, how many different nieces do we have?

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And Tegans and so on.

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You know, because we're not riding to a sort of template.

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Moffat wants his companions to be smarter than the doctor on the whole.

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And here we have Clara calling him you Clever Boy, which she's done in her previous 2 appearances, which kind of, it's not patronising, but it is her putting herself in a sort of situation where she can assess him and where she calls him a boy.

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And the bit at the end where she says, actually, no, I'm not running off with you. come back at 7 tomorrow, and we'll see how that plays out in the next episode.

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So Moffatt wants both Amy and Clara to be in charge of the doctor in some sort of way or to be better at some things than the doctor.

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It's how he evens up the traditional doctor companion imbalance.

183
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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We're stuck in a situation where the lead is male and then the secondary character is female.

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And in fact, he tends to de-emphasize the doctor.

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I think a bit in this story.

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There's even a line in this story about, she's very intelligent, but not very good with computers.

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Yeah.

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Like it's clearly stated this is an like an intelligent, clever person.

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I have to say, I mean, I do enjoy this episode very much, but that's one of my problems with that.

191
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And possibly one of my problems with Clara in this episode that this episode is all about sort of middle class technophobia.

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You know, there's an internet and people can watch you.

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They can track you down on social media and things like that.

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But the factions of their webcam.

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Well, exactly.

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I mean, I think that does happen.

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But see, QED, yeah.

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But the fact, I mean, that's quite funny.

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I think Moffat's poking fun at himself as well slightly with that.

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But the fact that he projects out onto Clara and initially makes her a bit of a dunce with technical things is a bit kind of ho-hum.

201
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I actually do know people.

202
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So Clara's, what, 24?

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I know people who are kind of bad at technology, even though they're sort of substantially younger than me.

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It isn't unbelievable.

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Yeah.

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Well, I was just going to say, like, usually in these kind of things, it'll be the younger character who gets the technology and the older character who's left floundering going, huh?

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What?

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I actually see that as a nice subversion.

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And I think what makes it work is Clara treats the computer like it's the stupid thing.

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You know?

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And there is a line in the draft script where when she's struggling it.

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She says, what even are you?

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A television you can type on?

214
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Who needs that?

215
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Yeah, it is another one of these things where Moffatt is absolutely a middle-aged guy who doesn't know how the internet works.

216
00:16:23.940 --> 00:16:25.620
Oh, no, he introduced the internet.

217
00:16:25.620 --> 00:16:26.759
Impress gang.

218
00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:28.080
He did too.

219
00:16:28.139 --> 00:16:31.200
Has anyone checked with Chris bid me to see if he lapped this up?

220
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:35.220
It is very funny.

221
00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:36.120
Yeah.

222
00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:53.039
I've mentioned before that with Asylum of the Daleks, I was fortunate enough to go see that at the BFI, and there was a chat afterwards with Matt, Karen and Arthur, and it came up that Matt Smith hates Twitter.

223
00:16:53.399 --> 00:17:01.740
And that's where the, the, the line about you knew nothing about computers 2 hours ago and you just made a joke about Twitter.

224
00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:04.619
Clara's like, it's people screaming into the voice.

225
00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:08.519
There's such vehemence in the way he pronounces the word Twitter.

226
00:17:08.579 --> 00:17:09.839
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

227
00:17:09.900 --> 00:17:11.819
I think someone asked Karen about her social media.

228
00:17:11.940 --> 00:17:14.279
I think she had quite an active Instagram at the time.

229
00:17:14.339 --> 00:17:19.079
And Karen's like, oh, do you guys have Instagram?

230
00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:21.720
And I was like, oh, I've got an Instagram, but I don't really use it.

231
00:17:21.779 --> 00:17:22.799
And that's like, no.

232
00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:26.220
No, I've got I've got Facebook.

233
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:28.079
I might get Instagram one day.

234
00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:31.140
I'm not getting on.

235
00:17:31.259 --> 00:17:32.819
Twitter.

236
00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:34.980
He's a man after my own.

237
00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:38.519
Did Moffat get hounded off Twitter?

238
00:17:38.579 --> 00:17:40.200
Yeah, that was another thing.

239
00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:45.240
Yeah, which is probably another place that like come from a people screaming into the void.

240
00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:46.559
Oh, yeah.

241
00:17:47.099 --> 00:17:48.420
Yeah. a huge gentleist.

242
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:50.339
You're very attractive.

243
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:51.779
Yes, special to us.

244
00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:53.940
Speaking of people screaming into the void.

245
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:56.220
That teaser, which is really great.

246
00:17:56.279 --> 00:18:04.920
All I can see as it pulls out, is it next to the central guy who's been talking throughout the teaser on his left is Scotty Hancock.

247
00:18:04.980 --> 00:18:06.359
My friend's cut.

248
00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:10.319
I was thinking, because I think he was the production secretary at the time.

249
00:18:10.380 --> 00:18:13.319
And so that's why he's making a brain of Morbius style cameos.

250
00:18:13.380 --> 00:18:20.339
But I was thinking, I must zoom with Scott one of these days so I can personalise the experience. just edited into the episode.

251
00:18:21.660 --> 00:18:33.539
It is one of the things that makes this not a pure RTD season opener, is that the actual threat is pure Moffat, isn't it?

252
00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:36.779
It's, you know, don't click on the thing.

253
00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:41.819
There's this thing that inhabits something that is around you every day.

254
00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:47.460
There's a thing about it that causes you to have a catchphrase when it attacks you.

255
00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:48.900
Whatever you do don't click.

256
00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:50.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

257
00:18:50.339 --> 00:18:51.119
Yeah.

258
00:18:51.180 --> 00:18:52.140
Good advice.

259
00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:56.039
But it is that, you know, I don't know where I am.

260
00:18:56.099 --> 00:19:01.440
And it is a sort of weird conceptual thing, like some things living in the Wi-Fi.

261
00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:06.000
It's not, you know, rhino policeman or anything like that.

262
00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:13.859
The thing is, when I watched it 1st back in 2013, I thought, oh, this is a bit silly, and Moffatt doesn't really understand what Wi-Fi is.

263
00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:19.440
It's not living in the Wi-Fi, actually, living in the internet. sitting here like this.

264
00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:21.900
And, you know, I misunderstood what the spoonheads were.

265
00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:28.319
I'm like, oh, so what Clara's router has suddenly grown legs and just like, no, no, no, it is explained in the story.

266
00:19:28.380 --> 00:19:29.460
I'm not going there, James.

267
00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:32.640
How do English people?

268
00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:34.559
How do we English?

269
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:35.339
She would be amused.

270
00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:40.259
How do English people manage to call it a rooter with a straight face?

271
00:19:42.299 --> 00:19:45.240
That's the thing I love about Australian English.

272
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:50.460
We call a root, a root, and a router, a router.

273
00:19:50.460 --> 00:19:52.259
To differentiate.

274
00:19:52.259 --> 00:19:53.819
Yeah. very strange.

275
00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:56.099
And the combination of the 2 is a roto.

276
00:19:58.140 --> 00:20:01.619
Yeah, I want death to the dialect style root problem.

277
00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:08.940
I think we're getting the beginning of his sort of weird doing CGI manipulations with heads on the aliens as well.

278
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.400
So you've got the sort of weird spoonheads turning around.

279
00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:15.720
Later on, we'll have people who can sort of zip their heads diagonally and stuff like that.

280
00:20:15.779 --> 00:20:18.180
I mean, all of this is very morford.

281
00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:25.380
It is, I have to say, even though, again, I'm at pains to say I do enjoy this episode, it feels slightly warmed over, the concepts in this.

282
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.279
I think, um, it all feels like a bit silent in the library.

283
00:20:29.339 --> 00:20:37.019
The spoonheads are a bit nude-like. and I don't know where I am sort of took me back there as well.

284
00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:41.339
It all feels a little bit like he didn't have a very strong idea for the episode.

285
00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:42.299
No.

286
00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:43.980
It's super thin, isn't it?

287
00:20:44.099 --> 00:20:44.460
Yeah.

288
00:20:44.460 --> 00:20:44.819
Yeah.

289
00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:49.859
Yeah, but I think that's also part of the RTDness of it.

290
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:50.640
Yeah.

291
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:54.599
In that RTD's season openers are deliberately thin.

292
00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:56.279
Especially partners in crime.

293
00:20:56.579 --> 00:21:00.000
Especially partners in crime, especially Smith and Jones.

294
00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:02.700
Like, Smith and Jones ends 10 minutes before the ending.

295
00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:04.380
So you can have the character moment.

296
00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:13.559
They're there to serve a purpose, which is to be accessible and to get someone involved, who doesn't necessarily want to get bogged down with all of the backplot.

297
00:21:13.619 --> 00:21:14.160
Yeah.

298
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:23.640
There's an accessibility about these season openers, which maybe goes missing in later seasons and I think that's the right choice.

299
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:24.839
Yeah.

300
00:21:24.900 --> 00:21:25.440
Yeah.

301
00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:26.700
Yeah, I agree.

302
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:38.759
The other thing, though, I mean, the RTD openers all have reasonably thin plots, but one thing that they do have that this doesn't have is kind of interesting characters.

303
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:46.920
There's a guy, is he called Marla, the guy with glasses, the other guy, the other guy who's called Alexi.

304
00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:52.200
So there are 2 people who are in the office with Miss Kisler.

305
00:21:52.259 --> 00:21:58.440
But Miss Kislett's really the only person there, and we don't really get to meet anyone else at all.

306
00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:01.740
And when you think about, say, partners in crime.

307
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:04.859
Is it Stacy, that Donna goes to visit?

308
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:05.819
Yeah, there's Stacy.

309
00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:06.480
Penny.

310
00:22:06.539 --> 00:22:09.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got Sylvia and the girls.

311
00:22:10.019 --> 00:22:17.400
Yeah, yeah, being reintroduced. like there's lots of fun people and it's not what Moffatt does here at all.

312
00:22:17.460 --> 00:22:18.960
There's nearly no one at all.

313
00:22:19.019 --> 00:22:25.259
We get to see Angie and Artie and I think their father, Mr. Maitland, whose 1st name I don't even know.

314
00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:28.440
They've got very, very minor roles to just...

315
00:22:28.500 --> 00:22:28.920
I don't know.

316
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:30.539
There's a couple of lines each, you know.

317
00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:31.500
Captain.

318
00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:32.579
He's from the sense, right?

319
00:22:42.299 --> 00:22:48.599
That's actually part of my issue with this episode, is that it's not quite as fun as you anticipate it will be.

320
00:22:48.660 --> 00:22:51.240
And so we've got Celia Emory of Bing, Bing, Bing, and Bing.

321
00:22:51.299 --> 00:22:54.480
And she's fantastic, but I think the character's a bit thin.

322
00:22:54.539 --> 00:22:56.700
And so she's not quite as fantastic as I thought she might be.

323
00:22:56.759 --> 00:22:57.359
Yeah.

324
00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:01.680
This feels a lot like season 24 to be.

325
00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:06.480
Which you all know out there, dear listeners, I love season 24.

326
00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:15.000
And when you say, you know, Clara being a sort of generic companion and being a Sarah Jane, I actually see her a lot like Mel.

327
00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:27.240
She's slightly sarky, but she's there to have fun. and she's totally happy to say to the doctor, you're being stupid now, you know, you're being stupid and waving your fez around and whatnot.

328
00:23:27.299 --> 00:23:33.960
But yeah, in terms of the supporting characters, yeah, Marla and Alexi are not terribly interesting.

329
00:23:34.019 --> 00:23:42.599
There's a line that I'm very glad Moffatt cut out, which during the bit where she's manipulating Marla to make him more compliant.

330
00:23:42.660 --> 00:23:48.599
He basically wanders off and she just moves to herself, who knew he was gay when he came in?

331
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:53.220
And now, but now she's convinced him he has a wife and whatnot.

332
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:57.599
And I think Moffatt's idea was she can change anything about you.

333
00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:06.599
But there's no record I could find of why that line was removed, but I think it was probably removed because he went, actually, no, hold on. terrible.

334
00:24:06.660 --> 00:24:08.160
That's kind of terrible.

335
00:24:08.220 --> 00:24:14.819
And there's something he'll do next week as well, which I will cover at the time, which again was cut out of the script.

336
00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:24.059
And I don't know from reading it if it was Moffatt or Neil Cross, but someone kind of went, oh, actually, no, I can see what you're going for there, but listen.

337
00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:24.539
Yeah.

338
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:28.319
It does give Celia a bit of a chance to shine.

339
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:31.319
And it's kind of like a lot of what you see Celia in.

340
00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:42.299
She has, of course, played villains in the past, but quite often, even when she's Claudia Bing, you know, she's only a villain in so much as she's the antagonist to Eddie, but it's not like Eddie's a nice person.

341
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:42.900
You know what I mean?

342
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:46.140
Claudia Bing's probably altogether more professional.

343
00:24:46.259 --> 00:24:47.160
Yeah, absolutely.

344
00:24:47.220 --> 00:24:59.279
And, you know, Celia is most famous for acorn antiques, probably, but has done sort of period dramas since then and what have you and is usually sort of a kindly matron or aunt sort of figure.

345
00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:03.720
So to have her here unrelentingly sinister.

346
00:25:03.779 --> 00:25:06.960
While still being Celia Imri.

347
00:25:07.019 --> 00:25:14.640
You know, it's really, it's really powerful and she has that wonderful line of no one loves cattle more than Burger King.

348
00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:16.380
That's so good, isn't it?

349
00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:22.380
And it's a, well, it's amazing that they could get away with... pointing at pointing at a brand like that.

350
00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:22.740
That it.

351
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:24.779
Other hamburger places are also available.

352
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:25.319
Yes.

353
00:25:37.619 --> 00:25:44.160
Can we just talk briefly about how her character ends that final scene?

354
00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:45.960
It's heartbreaking?

355
00:25:46.019 --> 00:25:51.059
Well, it's the sort of thing that isn't horrible if you're a kid watching it.

356
00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:52.019
Right.

357
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:56.220
But it's conceptually really terrifying if you're an adult.

358
00:25:56.339 --> 00:26:02.519
It's the same thing as in the snowmen's note with the corrupting influence of the great intelligence on the children.

359
00:26:02.579 --> 00:26:03.420
Yeah, that's right.

360
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:09.000
It's also Emery's performance, I think, in that scene when she's being the little girl because she's so good.

361
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:12.660
And that could come off ridiculous.

362
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:15.480
That could easily have flopped that scene, I think.

363
00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:17.279
But I don't think it does.

364
00:26:17.339 --> 00:26:25.500
And it is this sort of terrifying thing where a nine-year-old girl suddenly wakes up and her parents are dead and she's an old woman, you know.

365
00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:33.779
What's also quite deep about that scene is you get everyone else in the office 1st and they're just kind of like, oh, hold on.

366
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:36.000
I came in to fix the loop.

367
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:37.319
Yeah, that was Marl, I wasn't.

368
00:26:37.380 --> 00:26:38.880
Yeah, that's why I can't even fix the loop.

369
00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:39.359
Where am I?

370
00:26:39.420 --> 00:26:41.339
It's like, oh, you soldiers, can you help me?

371
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:43.799
And it's kind of like, okay, these people have maybe lost a couple of months.

372
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:48.480
The person responsible for it has lost more.

373
00:26:48.539 --> 00:26:52.019
And so there's a sense of sacrifice in what she's done.

374
00:26:52.140 --> 00:27:07.319
But also a sense of justice and it's kind of, it's kind of horrible and kind of uncomfortable in that way that Doctor Who does, where it's like sometimes a villain will get a comeuppance and you go, actually was that, was that what we should have done?

375
00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:10.319
Was that what should have happened to Solomon in dinosaurs on a spaceship?

376
00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:10.859
Yes.

377
00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:12.299
When, yeah.

378
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:19.799
When Terence Dix writes the novelisation of the sun makers, he has the workers regret throwing the gatherer off the roof.

379
00:27:19.859 --> 00:27:21.119
They're like, it went a little bit far.

380
00:27:21.180 --> 00:27:22.740
Yeah, nearly as funny.

381
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:24.599
No, what a class trader.

382
00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:25.319
Yeah, yeah.

383
00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:33.299
The thing is, he doesn't condemn, but he kind of goes, these people are human and that guy is human even if he's a horrible monster, you know what I mean?

384
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:43.200
Just in a couple of lines, it's showing moral complexity, as well as character, as well as giving Celia, as you say, a great moment, which she pictures perfectly.

385
00:27:43.259 --> 00:27:44.880
It would have been so easy to overdo.

386
00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:49.140
Yeah. especially seeing as so far, you know, her character has been quite arch.

387
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:57.299
But as an actress, she just really strips it down to a very believable.

388
00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:06.240
And as you say, very, very scary level, which to a kid, a kid would understand what happened, but a kid hasn't grown into an adult, so doesn't know what's been lost.

389
00:28:06.299 --> 00:28:06.900
Yeah, really.

390
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:07.799
Yeah.

391
00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:12.299
I mean, she was going to kill Alexi after he came back from his holiday.

392
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:13.079
Oh, yeah.

393
00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:16.799
My conscience says that we should probably kill him.

394
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:35.579
I also like the fact that at the end, even though I have slight misgivings about the episode before that, I really like that it's got one of those moth at twists, which you don't see coming where the doctor who rides up the side of the shine. turns out to be a spoonhead and he's got the helmet on, so you don't know.

395
00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:37.259
It's vintage Moffat.

396
00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:37.740
Yeah, yeah.

397
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:38.400
Yeah, yeah.

398
00:28:38.460 --> 00:28:50.819
And something I also love about it, because I'd actually forgotten that watching this time. something I love about it as well is when he's riding up there, I'm like, Clara is all alone and dying. you know, and then, of course, no, she's not.

399
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:53.700
You know, he won't leave her alone.

400
00:28:53.819 --> 00:28:55.319
And then when he knows she's safe.

401
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:58.559
He kind of just rubs her head a bit and walks off.

402
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:02.039
And my reading of that is him going, I've saved her this time.

403
00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:05.160
And she's not in danger now and I can go away.

404
00:29:05.220 --> 00:29:12.299
And then obviously a day or so later, he's like, well, if she's safe now, she, you know, we can be friends.

405
00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:13.200
Yeah.

406
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:18.599
Matt is one of the finest actors to ever play the doctor and he just picks out such nuance.

407
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:19.740
Great.

408
00:29:19.740 --> 00:29:21.000
It's really nice, isn't it?

409
00:29:21.059 --> 00:29:39.059
It's interesting that one of the ways that the misdirect works is that that's the doctor's hero moment for the episode and it gets given to the spoonhead disguise as the doctor and even Murray is doing the kind of hero music as he rides up the skyscraper and everything.

410
00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:41.220
So it surprised me as well.

411
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:42.359
I'd forgotten too.

412
00:29:42.420 --> 00:29:46.859
And you get a proud bear holding a bag of chips, getting to be celia.

413
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:48.299
So great.

414
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:49.559
It's my drink.

415
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:52.859
I was like, good.

416
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:54.180
Lord.

417
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:56.880
He's really great, isn't he?

418
00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:13.799
I really like one of the classic moth at lines there.

419
00:30:13.859 --> 00:30:15.960
Your dad called mainly about the government.

420
00:30:16.019 --> 00:30:17.339
He's very cross at it.

421
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:20.579
That is every phone call I have with my dad.

422
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:21.240
It's great.

423
00:30:21.299 --> 00:30:23.640
It's so funny, isn't it?

424
00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:29.819
And he's even, so he's reading the answering machine messages that have happened while Clara was asleep.

425
00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:36.720
And there's one from Angie as well and he repeats this, you know, so just get off her back, will you?

426
00:30:36.779 --> 00:30:42.359
Like, he's really funny reading that stuff out and it is classic Moffatt sitcom stuff, isn't it?

427
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:46.079
There's another bit that I'm glad Moffat cut out there.

428
00:30:46.140 --> 00:30:49.440
Which is, you know, um, Clara's unconscious.

429
00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:52.920
The doctor puts her to bed and then sits outside because it's the gentlemanly thing to do.

430
00:30:53.160 --> 00:31:00.000
In the original script, Clara wakes up and she's like, whose nightdress is this?

431
00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:02.880
And the doctor says, Martahari's.

432
00:31:02.940 --> 00:31:03.839
She gave it to me.

433
00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:05.460
She said it was her only one.

434
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:06.480
I have no idea why.

435
00:31:06.539 --> 00:31:15.240
And I'm just like, yeah, but Moffatt realises the implication is that the doctor has like undressed Clara put her in and he's kind of gone, maybe not.

436
00:31:15.660 --> 00:31:28.259
In fact, that's adorable, that scene where he sort of parked himself out the front in his mobile phone and he's sitting in the chair in front of it and stuff and they're chatting via the window.

437
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:30.839
I think that is really, really terrific.

438
00:31:30.900 --> 00:31:34.920
And she kind of says, you know, you're guarding me, aren't you?

439
00:31:34.980 --> 00:31:36.480
And he says yes.

440
00:31:36.539 --> 00:31:37.500
That's really.

441
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:38.460
Yeah, it's really good.

442
00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:40.440
And he's invented the quadricycle.

443
00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:42.059
And he's included the quadricycle.

444
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:44.700
Max delivery of that is so perfect.

445
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:45.599
Honey.

446
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:46.740
Oh my god.

447
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:48.000
What an idiot.

448
00:31:48.059 --> 00:31:49.200
It's so funny.

449
00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:57.420
I have that bizarre little set piece afterwards, which doesn't quite fit, but it's quite fun where they're suddenly in the cockpit of a plane which she prevents from crashing.

450
00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:00.000
I was thinking, when was the last time the doctor was in a cockpit of a plane?

451
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:00.839
Time flight.

452
00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:03.000
This is better than time slide.

453
00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:03.660
Yes it is.

454
00:32:04.259 --> 00:32:06.839
Again, I really like that.

455
00:32:06.900 --> 00:32:08.759
I think that's really terrific.

456
00:32:08.819 --> 00:32:10.740
We just have one scene in the plane.

457
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:15.359
And I think it's nearly a hitchhiker's quote. isn't isn't it?

458
00:32:15.420 --> 00:32:17.759
It's the, can you fly a plane?

459
00:32:17.819 --> 00:32:20.279
No, neither can I, all right, let's do it together.

460
00:32:20.339 --> 00:32:21.359
Is that it?

461
00:32:21.420 --> 00:32:24.960
Yeah, when they take manual control of the heart of gold in hitchhikers.

462
00:32:25.019 --> 00:32:28.200
Zaphord, Ford, and trillion have that exchange.

463
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:29.039
Yeah, yeah.

464
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:31.440
And then from across the room, Arthur says, I can't fly it either.

465
00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:32.160
No one asks.

466
00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:33.779
Okay.

467
00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:34.380
I guess.

468
00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:35.039
I guess that.

469
00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:47.220
Now, the thing is, as I was watching that plane scene this time, I'm like, I know now why I like this episode so much, this feels like the colour series of the Avengers.

470
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:49.380
Like it's fast paced.

471
00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:50.400
It's frenetic.

472
00:32:50.460 --> 00:32:53.519
You don't see them travelling to from location to location a lot.

473
00:32:53.579 --> 00:33:00.059
And when they do, you know, it's exposition about what they're going to do. like when Steed and Emma are in the Bentley.

474
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:01.019
It's like, oh where are we going?

475
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:01.619
We're going here.

476
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:02.220
Why are we going there?

477
00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:03.720
They serve really good crumpets, steed.

478
00:33:03.779 --> 00:33:04.259
Okay.

479
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:05.460
There's a dead scientist.

480
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:06.000
You know.

481
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:11.700
Do you think that that's the dynamic that Moffat was going for with the doctor and Clara in this season?

482
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:13.740
I think quite possibly, yes.

483
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:20.880
And I think that feeds into the quasi-romantic element of that.

484
00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:30.420
And I think the quasi-romantic element works this time because it's not Amy who is engaged to Rory, but throwing herself at the doctor.

485
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:37.319
It's a young woman who is confident in her own attraction and sexuality, like when she thinks the doctor is coming onto her.

486
00:33:37.380 --> 00:33:41.339
Her message is basically, don't assume, but also don't not assume.

487
00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:42.059
Yeah, yeah.

488
00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:43.319
It's kind of just down boy.

489
00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:49.980
Yeah, and so there is a real sort of quirk between them.

490
00:33:50.039 --> 00:34:00.359
And then when she's sort of flirting with him, but also being rude to him in the cafe, and he's just like, I do not have, what is, I, uh, uh, uh, with...

491
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:00.779
Coffee.

492
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:01.140
Okay.

493
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:09.840
And again, that's very Avengers as well, in that Steed would flirt with Mrs. Peel, and she kind of rebuff him, and occasionally she'd flirt with him, and he'd just look up like, what?

494
00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:10.320
I'm sorry?

495
00:34:10.380 --> 00:34:13.619
Can we, uh, okay, no, you're hitting someone now.

496
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:14.340
All right, fine.

497
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:21.780
It's really the whole dynamic is the reverse of the tenant doctor, is it, where he was sexually confident and the companions would be a bit taken aback.

498
00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:26.099
Whereas now it's always the companions who are sexually confident the doctor's like, um...

499
00:34:26.099 --> 00:34:31.139
I did have one more thing to mention.

500
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:42.420
Now, of course, as we mentioned earlier, the BBC were aware that the web of fear was coming back, but by this point, the problems had happened, which I'll get into.

501
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:46.199
But if you look at Miss Kislett's badge, it's 2 circles.

502
00:34:46.260 --> 00:34:46.800
Her what?

503
00:34:46.860 --> 00:34:47.940
Her back.

504
00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:49.920
Oh, dear.

505
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:52.920
If you look at Miss Gislet's brooch.

506
00:34:52.980 --> 00:34:54.119
Peter.

507
00:34:55.500 --> 00:34:58.320
You've got a ring inside another ring.

508
00:34:58.380 --> 00:34:59.460
So oh, oh.

509
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:00.840
Oh.

510
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:08.159
And Doctor Who story codes back in the classic series started A, through to Z, and then A, through to ZZ, and so on and so forth.

511
00:35:08.219 --> 00:35:09.900
And then there's 3 bars.

512
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:12.659
And what episode of the web of fear is missing?

513
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:14.519
Episode three?

514
00:35:14.579 --> 00:35:20.099
And this would be such a great reference, if OO was not, in fact, the ice warrior.

515
00:35:20.099 --> 00:35:22.619
And I'm totally misleading.

516
00:35:23.099 --> 00:35:25.500
So what is the web affair?

517
00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:28.380
Oh, um, look, no, sorry.

518
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:29.519
I thought you knew these.

519
00:35:29.579 --> 00:35:30.239
NN.

520
00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:31.079
Back in the day.

521
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:33.300
It's it's NN.

522
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:34.800
No. hold on.

523
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:36.599
Oh, oh, PP, Cuckoo.

524
00:35:36.659 --> 00:35:37.260
Oh okay.

525
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:39.119
What's NM, enemy of the world?

526
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:42.360
NNN, is there?

527
00:35:42.420 --> 00:35:42.900
Hold on.

528
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:44.880
No, PP is the enemy.

529
00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:46.860
Please enjoy this, listeners.

530
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:48.840
Cutting all of this.

531
00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:50.639
Two Patros, this.

532
00:35:53.699 --> 00:35:55.320
Don't you know this?

533
00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:59.639
There's someone out there screaming at us because one of them is wrong.

534
00:36:00.300 --> 00:36:04.739
Screaming in joy and ecstasy that we are in fact discussing this.

535
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:06.300
Is that Simon?

536
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.800
And we haven't even talked about the cute title.

537
00:36:22.860 --> 00:36:28.860
Yeah, so all that weird thing in Cumbria in 1207 as well.

538
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:30.780
Just another little set piece that he's thrown.

539
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:32.340
Just so you can make that church.

540
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:33.780
Yeah, yeah.

541
00:36:33.780 --> 00:36:35.519
It's...

542
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:46.440
So it's another kind of Moffat thing that Russell would never do, which is that, you know, we build a whole place and characters and stuff and then kind of throw them away.

543
00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:49.739
And yeah, I don't know.

544
00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:51.900
I mean, I sort of like it.

545
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:53.940
And you do get that moment of, is it a demon?

546
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:54.539
It's a woman.

547
00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:55.920
Genuflect.

548
00:36:55.980 --> 00:36:56.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

549
00:36:57.179 --> 00:37:10.739
But something I noticed this time around, which, of course, I couldn't have noticed because last time I hadn't seen, Heaven sent, is that the doctor is sitting in the dark in a castle ruminating with a portrait of Clara he's painted.

550
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:12.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

551
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:14.519
Because she's died.

552
00:37:14.579 --> 00:37:28.079
I also think too, maybe there are elements of the 1st episode of series 9 as well, where he hides himself in the past, doesn't he, to kind of...

553
00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:31.920
I think Matt Smith could have pulled off playing an electric guitar on a, what was it, a tank?

554
00:37:31.980 --> 00:37:33.119
Yeah, yeah.

555
00:37:33.179 --> 00:37:35.340
To be fair, I think Peter does forward.

556
00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:42.119
See, yeah, Matt Matt would have played it discordantly and suddenly go, oh, yeah, I can't play guitar.

557
00:37:42.179 --> 00:37:42.659
What am I doing?

558
00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:44.820
It's like that line.

559
00:37:44.820 --> 00:37:48.239
The line where he says he came last in the Gravity Olympics.

560
00:37:48.300 --> 00:37:49.500
You know, I came last.

561
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:58.860
I think it's just a chance for sort of more wacky sitcom dialogue and I guess that's as good a reason as any to have it. absolutely.

562
00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:04.380
And also I just adore the fact that the episode is named after a silly throwaway gag.

563
00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:06.719
We won't get that again until timeless children.

564
00:38:15.420 --> 00:38:27.900
This is part of Series 7, and Series 7's kind of remit is to be a feature film every week, and I think that we would probably agree that this doesn't quite hit that mark.

565
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:33.360
But what the idea seems to be is standalone episodes that are fairly straightforward.

566
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:39.659
I think this does hit the mark in the way of it feels like a British invasion film.

567
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:40.320
Yeah.

568
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:47.099
You know, by which I mean the British sort of heist films. of the 70s because you have all those London settings.

569
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:51.659
And also, this is an episode clearly in love with Doctor Who's past and with film.

570
00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:56.639
And sci-fi films, like we get a Star Trek 4 reference of I can't tell the future.

571
00:38:56.699 --> 00:38:57.300
I just work there.

572
00:38:57.360 --> 00:38:58.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

573
00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:00.239
Captain Kirk isn't from outer space. just works there.

574
00:39:00.300 --> 00:39:08.699
We've got the doctor and Clara on the motorcycle having a chat that is clearly a crib to the telly movie.

575
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:09.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

576
00:39:09.900 --> 00:39:14.400
We've got some balls in the background, which is, you know, a throwback to the invasion.

577
00:39:14.460 --> 00:39:15.719
And that's the weird thing.

578
00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:17.519
I find this episode derivative.

579
00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:21.840
But in a popcorn movie kind of thing. affectionate.

580
00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:24.780
Yeah, it's not being derivative because it can't come up with his own ideas.

581
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:28.679
It's being derivative because it's like these ideas are really good and we're going to arrange them in a new way for you.

582
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:32.760
Being referential and reverential.

583
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:34.260
Yes.

584
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:37.860
All you really needed was Miss Kislet played by Michael Kane in a wig.

585
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:51.420
It's funny that it's an episode that works absolutely on the level of being a fun thing to watch and not really being designed for like a bunch of dorks to sit around a coffee table podcasting about.

586
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:53.760
So why are you doing this?

587
00:39:53.820 --> 00:39:57.000
And yet somehow. somehow we manage.

588
00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:00.360
I mean, it is fun and it is colourful.

589
00:40:00.420 --> 00:40:01.380
You can't hold anything against it.

590
00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:33.480
Well, Nelissa, that's all we have time for this week.

591
00:40:33.539 --> 00:40:38.760
We'll be back next week for the green screen extravaganza that is the Rings of Ackerton.

592
00:40:38.820 --> 00:40:57.360
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook, at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterterra, maximum power, and Untitled Star Trek project.

593
00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:07.739
Until next time, remember that if you're over 50 and posting political commentary on Twitter from your iPad, our base stations will be around to harvest you directly.

594
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:10.380
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

595
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:12.179
I'm the little spoon.

596
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:12.599
Good night.

597
00:41:12.659 --> 00:41:13.800
Ta-ta.

598
00:41:13.860 --> 00:41:14.340
Good night.

599
00:41:17.820 --> 00:41:23.760
That was Flight for Entirety, sorry, Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffiths, Brendan Jones, and James Selwood.

600
00:41:23.820 --> 00:41:25.920
Theme arrangement by Canon Lamb.

601
00:41:25.980 --> 00:41:34.619
This episode of Proud Bear, holding a bag of chips, getting to be Celia Imry, was recorded on the 29th of May 2022 and released on the 4th of September.

602
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:41.340
Of course, Stephen Moffat's hostility to the internet isn't just the result of middle class technophobia.

603
00:41:41.400 --> 00:41:52.619
His upcoming autobiography details a horrifyingly awkward incident, where he was contacted by an unsolicited Fendoline, who asked if he could add him to his professional network on LinkedIn.

604
00:41:55.679 --> 00:41:56.639
And cut it to there.

605
00:41:56.699 --> 00:41:57.659
What do you reckon?

606
00:41:57.780 --> 00:42:02.099
Yeah, I think we're going to struggle to speak for this long.

607
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:06.780
Like that's probably a bit over 40 minutes.

608
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:10.079
I do have one more thing I could bring.

609
00:42:10.139 --> 00:42:10.920
Yeah, go on, say something.

610
00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:13.739
So the woman in the shop.

611
00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:15.239
Ah, yeah.

612
00:42:15.300 --> 00:42:18.239
So this is when we introduced the idea of the woman in the shop.

613
00:42:18.300 --> 00:42:24.599
And look, if you're watching the new series along with us and you haven't seen forward from here, I'm not going to mention how that plot resolves itself.

614
00:42:25.139 --> 00:42:26.159
Missy.

615
00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:29.159
Spoilers.

616
00:42:29.820 --> 00:42:31.739
Linda Barron.

617
00:42:33.599 --> 00:42:35.340
You've got to wonder 9 years later.

618
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:37.920
Maybe they should have watched this.

619
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:39.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

620
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:42.300
Darth Vader is anarcha Skywalker, folks.

621
00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:46.380
That smelly old man who just turned up in Ithaca is Odysseus.

622
00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:58.559
But originally, she actually played a larger role in the plot, the woman in the shop, in that the doctor was going to get 2 phone calls during the episode.

623
00:42:58.619 --> 00:43:04.260
And one of them was just basically, well, how's it going?

624
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:05.760
Have you met Clara?

625
00:43:05.820 --> 00:43:06.840
Right, right.

626
00:43:06.900 --> 00:43:07.320
Quick.

627
00:43:07.380 --> 00:43:09.480
Oh, actually, that would have paid off quite nicely.

628
00:43:09.539 --> 00:43:10.019
Yeah.

629
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:25.739
And then when he comes back at the end of the episode, just before that, he was going to get a call saying, after everything you've been through, are you sure you can trust her enough to find out who she is?

630
00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:30.360
And so this voice on the phone was going to be goading him.

631
00:43:30.420 --> 00:43:34.380
Now, now it was dropped in the early stage of the script.

632
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:37.320
It was originally conceived as something that could happen throughout the season.

633
00:43:37.380 --> 00:43:38.400
Right, okay.

634
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:41.159
And that makes more sense of calling the episode the Bells.

635
00:43:41.219 --> 00:43:42.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah. because it's introducing the phone.

636
00:43:43.019 --> 00:43:44.039
Yeah.

637
00:43:44.039 --> 00:43:48.719
Um, And I think I think it was dropped.

638
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:58.860
So as not to put the cart before the horse, you know, we, I think at this stage, we want to believe that maybe this is or coincidence.

639
00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:03.360
Maybe there's, you know, there, maybe there's nothing sinister about Clara.

640
00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:05.039
Yeah, you know, kind of thing.

641
00:44:05.099 --> 00:44:07.980
And that would have told us, no, there is.

642
00:44:08.699 --> 00:44:23.519
Because the other big coincidence, I mean, the thing that convinces Matt that it is Clara isn't just that she calls him on the phone, but that the Wi-Fi password spells out, run you, Clever Boy, and remember.

643
00:44:23.579 --> 00:44:25.380
And I think the...

644
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:25.800
Yeah.

645
00:44:25.860 --> 00:44:28.019
Yeah, one, two, three. don't do that at home.

646
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:30.059
Just in case you didn't care.

647
00:44:30.539 --> 00:44:37.079
Like, I think that's a thing that will just never be explained and that's fine.

648
00:44:37.139 --> 00:44:39.179
But we have this tension.

649
00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:47.039
We'll talk more about it next week, I think, between Clara just being a companion and Clara being a mystery or a puzzle box.

650
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:53.699
And I think that if this half season has a theme, it's probably that.

651
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:54.719
Yeah.

652
00:44:54.780 --> 00:44:56.579
Yeah it's the impossible gut.

653
00:44:56.639 --> 00:44:57.179
Yeah, yeah.

654
00:44:58.500 --> 00:45:03.960
And, you know, that does lead us to that lovely scene of Clara explaining why she's still living in the house.

655
00:45:04.019 --> 00:45:08.039
And the doctor has a really interesting line where he says, I wish I was more like that.

656
00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:15.119
And it's kind of like, okay, but just before you lost Amy and Rory, you were exactly like that.

657
00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:18.900
You stayed for a year to see if the cubes were safe.

658
00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:21.059
You know, you actually didn't run off.

659
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:27.000
Um, and I think I think it's sort of, it's a moment of dramatic irony.

660
00:45:27.059 --> 00:45:28.019
It's not the doctor being modest.

661
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:39.780
The doctor genuinely believes he couldn't do that and wouldn't do that, even though he has, you know, and it's fascinating to me because, you know, he's the man who never says still.

662
00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:43.679
She's a woman who willingly got stuck.

663
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:48.000
And that's something that's going to come back towards the end of this season.

664
00:45:49.139 --> 00:45:50.940
What do you think then?

665
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:53.639
I've got 56 5 minutes.

666
00:45:53.699 --> 00:45:55.380
Is there anything anyone else wanted to add?

667
00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:58.980
No, I made my joke of the beginning.

668
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:00.840
Unspent.

669
00:46:02.460 --> 00:46:04.380
That's all I'm doing.

670
00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:06.960
I should have just been silent for the rest of it.

671
00:46:07.019 --> 00:46:08.280
Yes, usually.

672
00:46:08.340 --> 00:46:10.019
When is Tom will be after editing?

673
00:46:10.980 --> 00:46:13.679
Well, I self-edited it.

674
00:46:13.739 --> 00:46:15.059
Nathan said everything I was going to.

675
00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:16.739
So you didn't have to.

676
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:23.340
The Maitland's house is smoky as fuck. just full of smoke.

677
00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:24.719
Is it?

678
00:46:24.780 --> 00:46:29.940
Yeah, you know, to give a kind of soft lighting effect, but it's just really like smoky.

679
00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:31.559
Oh, yeah, that sort of dust stream.

680
00:46:31.619 --> 00:46:32.099
Yeah.

681
00:46:32.099 --> 00:46:42.360
And I also like, you know, when Clara hacks into the network, it's kind of like a reverse of the EastEnders title theme because you're panning up and you get drum beats as...

682
00:46:44.219 --> 00:46:51.239
I love all of the kind of, it's like sort of JavaScript, a little bit of HDML, a little bit of just complete, you know.

683
00:46:51.300 --> 00:46:52.860
Yeah, Pearl.

684
00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:55.320
Like it's all just nonsense.

685
00:46:55.380 --> 00:46:58.920
Sorry, that's a very sophisticated joke about Pearl.

686
00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:01.260
Mackie.

687
00:47:02.519 --> 00:47:07.980
This isn't for the episode, obviously, but as you know, I'm currently obsessed with a game called the Stanley Parable.

688
00:47:08.219 --> 00:47:19.019
And there's a great YouTube series called boundary break where they take they hack a game, take and take the camera to view details you can't usually view.

689
00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:31.500
And there's a bit in the Stanley Parable where there's this room full of screens, and one of them is flashing an error message, but you're like 50 metres where you can't read it, and he zooms into it, and it's like error, error, error, can't find file, error, error, error.

690
00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:33.300
Is anyone even reading this?

691
00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:39.719
Do you have any idea what it's like to have to make up a screen of this era text knowing that no one will ever read it?

692
00:47:39.780 --> 00:47:43.559
And he's like, well, this game came out 10 years ago and I hope you're out there.

693
00:47:43.860 --> 00:47:45.420
All right.

694
00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:46.860
I'm going to press stop.

695
00:47:46.980 --> 00:47:47.820
What do you think?

696
00:47:47.820 --> 00:47:49.139
Yeah, because you've already done the app.

697
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:50.880
Nathan, they always know when you press stop.