WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:21:48 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:48.240 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that pays for its yearly holidays on Ackerton with used pizza boxes and empty wine bottles. 2 00:00:48.299 --> 00:00:49.979 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:50.700 I'm Brendan. 4 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:52.439 I'm Todd, and I'm Peter. 5 00:00:52.500 --> 00:01:02.759 Well, the doctor is taking his new friend Clara off on her 1st big space adventure as part of his ongoing application process to become her official stalker. 6 00:01:02.820 --> 00:01:09.000 It's the end of the world's new Earth, Planet of the Ude, and the Beast Below, all rolled into one. 7 00:01:09.180 --> 00:01:11.040 Welcome to the Rings of Ackerton. 8 00:01:48.299 --> 00:01:50.159 I don't hate this. 9 00:01:50.340 --> 00:01:52.439 I don't hate this at all. 10 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:55.379 I don't think I hate it either. 11 00:01:55.799 --> 00:01:58.739 Um, it still has some of the problems. 12 00:01:58.799 --> 00:02:01.859 It had for me in 2013, but I enjoyed it a lot more this time. 13 00:02:01.980 --> 00:02:07.079 I actually think it's really strong and I loathed it. 14 00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:10.680 Yeah. 2013 and it wasn't on this rewatch. 15 00:02:10.740 --> 00:02:13.979 It was on a previous one that I actually thought, no, this is really good. 16 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:27.599 And I love the way it sort of links in with the last episode, which also I thought was pretty weak 1st time through, but now I like both of these, like 7.5 to 8 for that one and this one definitely an 8 for me. 17 00:02:27.659 --> 00:02:29.639 Sorry, I'm getting it all my hearts. 18 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:33.479 But no, I really like these as a one-two punch at the beginning. 19 00:02:33.539 --> 00:02:35.699 I think there's some really great character work for Clara. 20 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:36.120 Yep. 21 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:46.020 You know, the whole leaf thing between the 2 episodes and all the great intelligence last episode and the woman in the shop giving her the message. 22 00:02:46.139 --> 00:02:49.139 And I think Matt's great in both of these too. 23 00:02:49.740 --> 00:02:54.240 I have a few problems with it, I think. 24 00:02:54.300 --> 00:03:04.439 And one of them, I think you'll be astonished to learn, is something to do with Matt's performance, but I think this is better than I thought it was initially as well. 25 00:03:04.500 --> 00:03:21.960 El Sandra says, in her review of this episode, or maybe the previous one, that series 7 B is generally good, but there's one episode in which it falls down and that one episode is basically different for everyone. 26 00:03:22.020 --> 00:03:28.740 And I do think, yeah, I do think that Rings of Ackerton is not widely liked. 27 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:41.039 No, it is exceptionally maligned and I can't quite work out why because even though I think it is a little bit thin and lightweight in a lot of ways, I don't know how you could vehemently not like it. 28 00:03:41.099 --> 00:03:46.740 I mean, to give you some context to that, I did the 1st 50 years, Paul, forgot 2 magazine. 29 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:49.259 And this came in the bottom 10 stories. 30 00:03:49.259 --> 00:03:54.780 From memory, it was like number 233 out of 241 and that just beggars belief. 31 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:55.979 It is simply not that bad. 32 00:03:56.039 --> 00:03:58.439 What do you think the problem might be? 33 00:03:58.500 --> 00:04:00.419 Well, on my initial watch? 34 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:06.659 Todd Alert was like small children, small children who sing, like doubly so. 35 00:04:06.780 --> 00:04:09.659 And, you know, last week we had some child actors in as well. 36 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:10.919 Oh, tell us about that. 37 00:04:12.479 --> 00:04:14.460 Probably couldn't find them. 38 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:15.659 They're back. 39 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:17.639 They're back for the best episode of the season. 40 00:04:17.699 --> 00:04:19.259 Nightmare of Silver. 41 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:20.160 God, that's a terrible. 42 00:04:20.220 --> 00:04:22.379 So that's interesting for another time. 43 00:04:22.439 --> 00:04:30.660 But for me, I was clouded by the fact that there was this child actor and we're having singing to resolve things and that just put me off and I was just over it. 44 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:32.879 But I actually think this thing's very beautiful. 45 00:04:32.939 --> 00:04:33.720 Yeah. 46 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:36.540 And I think she's actually a very good little actress. 47 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:37.740 You know who she is, don't you? 48 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:38.459 No, no. 49 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:43.500 She is Amelia Jones, who is the lead in last year's Oscar winning film coda. 50 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:48.540 Oh, well, I'm really glad she's had success because I think she's wonderful as well. 51 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:51.540 She's really good and she's also a nice singer. 52 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:54.959 Yeah, I think she'd been acting since she was eight. 53 00:04:55.079 --> 00:05:02.040 But she's continued to work, unlike some of our favourite child actors from the Moffatt era. 54 00:05:03.060 --> 00:05:06.959 I think she is really strong as well. 55 00:05:07.019 --> 00:05:20.279 I wonder, though, whether the problem is that this isn't science fiction in any real sense of the word, and it does seem to come from someone new to the show. 56 00:05:20.339 --> 00:05:26.459 It does a whole heap of things that Doctor Who doesn't normally do. 57 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:30.420 And so maybe it's the weird fantasy element of it that put people off. 58 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:34.500 Two things put me off on the 1st viewing. 59 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:37.079 It's very strangely paced. 60 00:05:37.139 --> 00:05:43.259 Like, it's it's kind of top heavy and then not much happens in the middle and then it's a result. kind of peters out in the middle and then at the end. 61 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:56.639 Yeah, and the other thing that put me off at the time. was, and you see, this is so stupid and I was going to say, oh, this is an example of immaturity. 62 00:05:56.699 --> 00:05:57.959 I was 30, dear listener. 63 00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:00.300 So was Mary. 64 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:09.720 I thought the creature in the glass cage was a draconian and it wasn't a draconian and that made me really cross. 65 00:06:09.779 --> 00:06:12.300 Wow, which is just stupid. 66 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:15.480 It's just stupid, but it even looks like it's wearing draconian stuff. 67 00:06:15.540 --> 00:06:17.519 All right, grandad. 68 00:06:17.579 --> 00:06:21.540 Don't look askant sitting there on your throne behind glass. 69 00:06:21.600 --> 00:06:24.600 Eyes can be seen mouth computing. 70 00:06:25.019 --> 00:06:34.560 I went into it this time, not expecting to dislike it, but just knowing I disliked it last time, and I thought, I'm not going to focus on those elements I didn't like. 71 00:06:34.620 --> 00:06:38.579 I'm just going to sort of let it wash over me. 72 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:41.879 And there's just something so charming about it. 73 00:06:41.939 --> 00:06:47.279 It's like, the doctor often says, you know, I don't go looking for trouble. 74 00:06:47.339 --> 00:06:48.600 I don't go looking for trouble. 75 00:06:48.660 --> 00:06:49.740 I travel to see things. 76 00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:59.459 And this is a story that actually goes, no, for the 1st 15 minutes, the doctor is just here because this is a lovely, beautiful place to be and he wants to show Clara something nice. 77 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:09.779 And I think that is, It's responsible for the weird pacing, but it's also a really great change of pace. 78 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:16.379 I wonder if the reason it's so poorly received is because it comes between Bells of St. 79 00:07:16.379 --> 00:07:27.300 John, which we said last week. is very slight, but very confident and brisk, and enjoyable, and Cold War, which I know a lot of people have problems with, and I can understand. 80 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:36.300 But at the same time, has an nice warrior and an all-star cast, like has got Cunningham and David Warner and Tobias Menzies, Prince Charles. 81 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:37.319 Prince Charles. 82 00:07:37.379 --> 00:07:39.779 It's the 2 Prince Philips. 83 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:40.500 Yes. 84 00:07:42.660 --> 00:07:48.899 But I think for that reason and the fact that it's a bit weird, people judge it harsher. 85 00:07:48.899 --> 00:07:57.540 I think it would be a production thing as well because coming with the fantasy element, it's very green screen heavy and Doctor Who is not usually that. 86 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:02.939 And so it has kind of shades of the Phantom menace to us, and I think it might turn off a few people. 87 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:04.800 But I like it. 88 00:08:04.860 --> 00:08:08.519 I really like the fact that it's trying to be alien. and charmingly so. 89 00:08:08.579 --> 00:08:11.759 It's got that Star Wars cantina kind of vibe. 90 00:08:11.819 --> 00:08:18.060 And, you know, it reminds you of every Star Trek Voyager marketplace that they that they ever visited. 91 00:08:18.180 --> 00:08:23.579 It's really interesting better you talk about Star Wars because, yes, that it's got the cantina. 92 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:31.680 But I also think, you know, when they're in that arena and sitting down, It's sort of like the attack of the clones, like, yeah, going to watch something. 93 00:08:31.740 --> 00:08:38.700 Yeah, or Tsung, can't say, with Jerry Ryan beating the crap out of the rock in Voyager. 94 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:40.799 I don't think I've watched that. 95 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:43.080 You should. 96 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:54.899 But if we go back to the beginning, The beginning is the doctor seeing how Clara's parents met with the leaf and the fact that he's almost run over by a car. 97 00:08:55.019 --> 00:08:59.039 Shades of rose and yeah. 98 00:08:59.100 --> 00:09:02.820 And then the doctor's really creepily watching on Clara. 99 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:03.779 Yeah. 100 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:06.299 Yeah, and that is a little bit of a problem. 101 00:09:06.419 --> 00:09:13.200 And Moffat doesn't want, look, he gets to introduce, what, 3 companions, right? 102 00:09:13.259 --> 00:09:20.399 And it's only by the 3rd go that he's confident enough to just say he or she is. 103 00:09:20.460 --> 00:09:21.539 This is the new companion. 104 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:24.240 She's going to come into the Tartars and say it's bigger on the... 105 00:09:24.299 --> 00:09:24.899 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 106 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:36.779 Whereas here he's got this huge kind of structure around the appearance of Clara in that she's appeared twice before there's a mystery about her. 107 00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:44.159 And so what we get is the doctor sort of creepily going back and investigating her backstory. 108 00:09:44.220 --> 00:09:50.759 How can she possibly just be Clara Oswald from 2013, age 24? 109 00:09:50.820 --> 00:09:52.919 What's kind of going on there? 110 00:09:52.980 --> 00:10:02.580 And I don't much like the fact that it's the 2nd companion in a row that he meets as a child. 111 00:10:02.580 --> 00:10:07.679 And in fact, the prequel scene thing is entirely that, isn't it? 112 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:18.299 Yeah, the thing is, from a narrative point of view, he's coming off the back of paranoia with Amy and Rory and how they were used against him. 113 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:20.100 But taken in isolation. 114 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:20.820 And that's the thing. 115 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:22.259 This is a reset for the series. 116 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:25.980 Amy and Rory are never mentioned in these 1st 2 episodes. 117 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:29.940 So if you come to this new, you're absolutely like, why is he doing this? 118 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:30.600 Yeah. 119 00:10:30.659 --> 00:10:37.320 You know, um, I think Matt Smith being Matt Smith offsets some of the sinister element of it? 120 00:10:37.379 --> 00:10:42.539 like when he gets hit in the head with the ball and jumps into a Venusian karate stance. 121 00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:46.860 But at the same time, it is a repeat of what we've had before. 122 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:52.860 We do get one big benefit from it, though, which is Clara's hot short dad. 123 00:10:52.919 --> 00:10:54.360 Yeah, he is hot, isn't he? 124 00:10:54.419 --> 00:10:57.120 It's a shame he won't be back for time of the doctor for some reason. 125 00:10:57.179 --> 00:10:57.840 Yeah. 126 00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:00.720 I think... homophobic. 127 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:13.200 I think that it is Moffat doing the thing where instead of just having a flashback, so we're giving Clara some backstory. 128 00:11:13.259 --> 00:11:16.200 We're getting to know who she is in one sense. 129 00:11:16.259 --> 00:11:20.399 And given that this is the way the episode's going to resolve itself. 130 00:11:20.460 --> 00:11:22.379 We kind of need it. 131 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:24.960 But we sort of just need it so that we know her better. 132 00:11:25.019 --> 00:11:29.340 But because we have a time machine, we can make the flashbacks not be flashbacks at all. 133 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:33.179 We could just have the doctor going back into the past and experiencing them in real time. 134 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:39.299 And it's clearly what he's doing between dropping her off at the end of Bells of St. 135 00:11:39.299 --> 00:11:43.799 John and picking her up again at 7 PM the following day. 136 00:11:43.860 --> 00:12:01.200 And another thing that I like about it is that we see Clara actually really looking forward to seeing him again, and she's sitting on the stairs waiting for him to arrive, whereas previously she'd sort of rather cooly dismissed him at the end of the episode. 137 00:12:01.259 --> 00:12:06.299 It's that modern day online romance thing where you have to be cool. 138 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:09.960 And so even though you really want to hear from someone again or go out for a date. 139 00:12:10.019 --> 00:12:11.279 Don't text them too soon. 140 00:12:11.340 --> 00:12:17.340 And so, you know, the sort of you present an artifice to the world, but really you're kind of keen on it. 141 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:17.580 Yeah. 142 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:39.659 But I do think, like, you know, as much as, you know, we can bring that up as being a bit of a point, I do think that it's great that this is continuing her character of development. 143 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:45.000 I mean, the next 2 episodes, which were filmed before these, are just so generic and don't link to anything in the season. 144 00:12:45.059 --> 00:12:46.500 I think they really suffer because of it. 145 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:56.039 Whereas this, I think it actually helps the ending or with the whole leaf thing really brings this story together when it could have just collapsed in upon itself. 146 00:12:56.100 --> 00:13:05.159 I think, too, that what they've done too is crafter story kind of around this leaf. 147 00:13:05.220 --> 00:13:12.539 So it's a story where... should have been rubber. 148 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:17.399 Oh my god, a single leaf fell and a Clara grew. 149 00:13:19.980 --> 00:13:26.159 But we go to a planet where sentimental value is value. 150 00:13:26.220 --> 00:13:30.600 And there's some sort of hand wavy thing, but essentially it's kind of magic, isn't it? 151 00:13:30.659 --> 00:13:31.620 Yeah. 152 00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:33.480 The thing is, I don't mind that. 153 00:13:33.539 --> 00:13:40.919 Like Doctor Who has done psychometry before with Professor Clegg, for instance, in Implanted the Spiders. 154 00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:49.860 Something I do have a little bit of a problem with watching through this time is the doctor is wearing Amy's specs. 155 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:53.940 And then when they go to get the space bike, he's like, oh, no, I don't have anything of sentimental value to give away. 156 00:13:54.000 --> 00:14:03.960 And I don't think it's a conscious character moment, but I do kind of go, at the same time, is this the doctor going, okay, how far are you willing to go in travels? 157 00:14:04.019 --> 00:14:08.159 Like, you can't, the universe isn't a free ride kind of thing. 158 00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:11.220 But I think if that were deliberate, it would have been cooled out. 159 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:15.179 And it does, it does mean we get the lovely moment where she gets the ring back at the end. 160 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:20.639 I was saying there's probably a practical reason to that in that he probably wears them in hide or something like that. 161 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:24.179 Yeah. 162 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.159 Can we talk about his costume? 163 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:30.600 Because this is the 1st time that he's fully in the new costume. 164 00:14:30.659 --> 00:14:31.860 Yeah, with the Westcoat. 165 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:37.320 Yeah, so we see him choose the purple coat thing. 166 00:14:37.379 --> 00:14:38.220 Purple. 167 00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:42.120 I actually have to say that I don't mind it and I think he looks pretty good. 168 00:14:42.179 --> 00:14:52.860 It's a shame that that sort of knee length kind of jacket thing is just 80s Doctor Who doctors all basically have that until... 169 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:55.559 It's the tele movies idea of what the doctor should address. 170 00:14:55.620 --> 00:14:56.580 Yeah, it really is. 171 00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:03.240 And I think here, where suddenly he has a waistcoat and a watch chain and stuff like that, this is when it just gets stupid. 172 00:15:03.299 --> 00:15:07.019 I think it becomes a Doctor Who costume and I dislike it. 173 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:08.820 Reminds me of Willy Wonka. 174 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:10.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 175 00:15:10.259 --> 00:15:16.259 And, and, you know, also, I think Tom had a short coat in his 1st series and then he got the longer coats. 176 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:19.679 It's a change and it's a costume. 177 00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:21.539 Yeah, right, totally nature. 178 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:29.460 Yeah, I mean, no one would wear what Matt wears in real life in seasons 5 and six, but once they would have. 179 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:38.399 And that kind of works, you know, when we get the doctor come up in the 1960s in 1963, he's wearing kind of Edwardian clothes. 180 00:15:38.460 --> 00:15:44.820 And so having a doctor in 2010 where sort of clothes from the 1950s works as well, I think. 181 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:53.759 But it's also the kind of character is because you would see that series 56 outfit, but kind of on a slightly eccentric university boffin. 182 00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:56.279 You know, that's kind of style that they would go for. 183 00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:59.519 It works for the character, but this, I'm just not sure what this is. 184 00:15:59.580 --> 00:16:04.019 I quite like it, but I agree it's over designed. 185 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:10.980 And I think really, it looks much more real without the waistcoat last week. 186 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:11.759 Yeah. 187 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:15.419 They add the waistcoat this week and it just, it heightens it too much. 188 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:19.320 Is it Coco Chanel who said before you leave the house, look in the mirror and take off one thing? 189 00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:20.820 Yeah, it's usually my pants. 190 00:16:22.620 --> 00:16:25.320 I was wondering about that ankle. 191 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:27.480 Your underpants? 192 00:16:27.539 --> 00:16:29.580 Look you're modelling right now. 193 00:16:31.500 --> 00:16:35.039 He's basic instincting us as we speak. 194 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:37.860 But yeah, that's the thing. 195 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:44.340 It's like, I like it as a costume and I like it as a design, but it's also very, very heightened. 196 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:53.879 And I also feel that this console room, which I know has been discussed a couple of episodes ago, I know pretty much everyone loves this and it's their favourite of the new series. 197 00:16:53.940 --> 00:17:03.899 I think it's better later on when they make modifications, but even then, I think the console room is also too designed and too precise. 198 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:07.079 But I know I'm in the minority of that. 199 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:09.359 Yes, Brendan. 200 00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:13.680 Yeah, I like the Whittaker console room. 201 00:17:13.740 --> 00:17:14.279 What do I know? 202 00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:17.880 Do you also like the opening credits and dodo? 203 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:19.980 Yes. 204 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:22.140 And also new dodo. 205 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:24.480 Lauren Cornelius doing a great job. 206 00:17:24.539 --> 00:17:28.680 But it kind of works because it works on Matt Smith. 207 00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:29.579 You know what I mean? 208 00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:31.319 But I totally agree. 209 00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:32.160 It is a costume. 210 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:36.359 And I think what we needed, He doesn't, like, he changes the shirt and bow tie every week. 211 00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:46.500 But I think maybe what we needed is the same cut of coat, but one or 2 different colours because, you know, as soon as Tenant gets his blue suit, his costuming becomes a lot more interesting. 212 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:50.279 And, you know, he always varied it with like tie, no tie, et cetera. 213 00:17:50.339 --> 00:17:57.420 Matt had had different tweed coats and then he had the green great coat, which I know not everyone liked, but it was something different. 214 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:01.799 This, he, it's just too much the same all the way through. 215 00:18:01.859 --> 00:18:04.259 They're not changing enough each week. 216 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:06.240 Purple just don't work for me. 217 00:18:06.299 --> 00:18:07.200 Yeah. 218 00:18:07.259 --> 00:18:10.799 I'm kind of getting a Colin Baker vibe from it. 219 00:18:10.859 --> 00:18:24.839 And it's another one of those occasions where you think if only Colin had been allowed to wear something a little bit more like this where it is weird, it is still a costume, but it's not quite as horrific as what he was forced to wear for his time on the show. 220 00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:26.279 You keep looking at me. 221 00:18:26.339 --> 00:18:31.140 Well, it's because you came here dressed in Colin Baker's outfit and I'm trying to be polite about it. 222 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.559 At the hair. 223 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:37.920 No, no, no. 224 00:18:37.980 --> 00:18:39.420 I'm totally fine with these comments. 225 00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:42.900 You look fabulous. 226 00:18:49.140 --> 00:18:51.779 I have to say, I really like Doreen. 227 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:53.099 Lovely smile. 228 00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:57.539 Yeah, adore in the moped Wrangler. 229 00:18:58.019 --> 00:19:00.359 I've got that written down. 230 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:04.799 Oh, I called it the moped renter, but it... 231 00:19:04.859 --> 00:19:09.599 I like a little barking, like et cetera, with carvinista, and they could bark at each other to their heart's content. 232 00:19:09.660 --> 00:19:16.680 My favourite thing about the name is that in the credits, there's an apostrophe because it's a space name. 233 00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:18.779 Because it is... 234 00:19:18.779 --> 00:19:21.480 Like the hoofaloo. 235 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:31.259 But I just like the fact that it's the whole marketplace and you get to see all sorts of different alien designs and we've seen that a couple of times. 236 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:31.799 Yeah. 237 00:19:31.859 --> 00:19:37.680 Well, I think, you know, obviously the end of the world is the kind of locus classicus of that. 238 00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:42.779 You take her to an alien place but make it really properly alien. 239 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:47.819 And he rattles off a list of alien names which I can't remember. 240 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:51.720 I like the pan Babylonians, that's one of my favourite ones, I think. 241 00:19:51.779 --> 00:19:57.000 They're Babylonians, and they're not very picky about who they're going to have sex with. is the idea. 242 00:19:57.180 --> 00:19:59.460 I like the Hooveloo. 243 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.640 Yeah, it's like a list of your house cleaning tasks. 244 00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:07.559 I like the blue fruit. 245 00:20:07.619 --> 00:20:09.720 I would have a norm on that Bluefruit. 246 00:20:09.779 --> 00:20:11.039 It looks nice, doesn't it? 247 00:20:11.099 --> 00:20:11.519 Yeah, yeah. 248 00:20:11.579 --> 00:20:13.200 Clara doesn't like it, but the doctor clearly does. 249 00:20:13.259 --> 00:20:22.380 See, it just isn't quite as good as the beef slushy in the long game, which is, I guess, the other time that we do this. 250 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:24.599 And let's not forget the start of turn left. 251 00:20:24.660 --> 00:20:25.500 Yeah. 252 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:26.880 Yeah, yeah. 253 00:20:26.940 --> 00:20:27.299 Yeah, yeah. 254 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:34.920 I think what really works about the bluefruit for me is Clara sort of biting into it and smiling and going, and then going, hmm. 255 00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:37.140 That's something that the stools lady would say. 256 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:39.180 Greatest show, yeah. 257 00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:42.779 And that leads us to a great bit where the doctor wanders off. 258 00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:44.220 Yeah, yeah. 259 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:45.779 Clara's like, what? 260 00:20:45.779 --> 00:20:48.779 And then she gets embroiled in the adventure. 261 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:53.640 But nothing terrible happens, like she doesn't get knocked out like Amy does or something like that. 262 00:20:53.700 --> 00:20:55.680 And then when the doctor finds... beckoned into a tent. 263 00:20:55.740 --> 00:20:57.180 Red hair. 264 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:00.839 Big guys. 265 00:21:00.900 --> 00:21:03.000 Do you want to see the snake in my globe? 266 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:06.839 I flutter my fingers. 267 00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:15.779 It's lovely that, you know, Clara's 1st intervention on an alien world doesn't lead to something horrible happening. 268 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:21.779 It doesn't lead to her getting locked up and it like things start to go wrong, but the plot very clearly says, no, no, no. 269 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:23.279 Clara didn't do anything wrong. 270 00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:25.019 Mary didn't do anything wrong. 271 00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:29.039 It's this bastard over here who's messing things up for everyone. 272 00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:34.980 And I think it's so lovely when the doctor finds her again, she doesn't gush about, oh, you know, I helped the kid and da da da. 273 00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:37.799 She's like, no, I'm just having fun and enjoying the sights. 274 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:41.819 And I think he sort of looks at her like, okay, no, something's happened, but you're good. 275 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:42.359 It's all good. 276 00:21:42.420 --> 00:21:44.519 Let's go watch the song. 277 00:21:44.579 --> 00:21:48.480 I love the fact that the doctor originally came here with his granddaughter. 278 00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:49.440 Yeah. 279 00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:51.960 Why is that mentioned? 280 00:21:52.019 --> 00:21:55.680 I mean, I know it's to make Clara Boggle for a second. 281 00:21:55.740 --> 00:22:01.200 You know, this is a 30-year-old who apparently has a granddaughter, but the other... into Essex. 282 00:22:03.900 --> 00:22:11.819 I mean, the other grandfather in the episode is the grandfather, like that horrible mummy thing in the in the glass case. 283 00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:12.779 Yeah. 284 00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:17.099 Well, I think there is an effort there of juxtaposition. 285 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:23.099 And it's played on in the climax in that the doctor gives, you know what I mean? 286 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:28.140 And there are times when the doctor is selfish and doesn't take other people into account because he's not a perfect character. 287 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:30.779 But the doctor is basically a giver. 288 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:34.500 He gives people these experiences where all the other grandfather does his take. 289 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:35.940 Yeah, yeah. 290 00:22:35.940 --> 00:22:47.160 I felt really wistful with that mention because there's something which the black and white years never did, which I wish they had, which was like, take the characters to a truly alien world with marketplace and things like that. 291 00:22:47.220 --> 00:22:54.960 You can just imagine the doctor and Vicky poking around a place like this while Ian and Barber off, I don't know, getting sold into slavery. 292 00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:57.299 And it was a real like, I wish that we'd seen that. 293 00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:58.019 And so, yeah. 294 00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:10.140 I will say, though, Marco Polo sort of does that because something that David Whitaker said was that for Ian and Barbara, the past is as alien as an alien world. 295 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:14.940 But yeah, I totally agree with you there, Peter, because there's an element in the heart and malaria, because you have longer stories. 296 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:19.980 You often have periods where the characters, like in the Romans, are just living in the time. 297 00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:22.200 And that's what this seems to be. 298 00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:25.559 And I think the mention of Susan is both because it's the 50th anniversary. 299 00:23:25.619 --> 00:23:26.880 Oh, yeah, we're going to mention that. 300 00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:35.759 But it's motivated by the fact that the doctor is talking about this place so affectionately that Clara is like, oh, you've been here before. 301 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:41.579 And I hear that and I immediately go, okay, we're going to get another awkward gridlock moment. 302 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:46.440 But instead, Clara's just like, oh, you've brought me to somewhere you know is great. 303 00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:51.119 And it just, it makes me love this pairing immediately. 304 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:56.220 Like, they're both on the same frequency of, let's do something fun. 305 00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:01.500 And we've had that line immediately previously where the doctor's like, where do you want to go? 306 00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:06.480 And Clara says, you know that thing where you asked for your favourite book and you suddenly forget every book you ever read? 307 00:24:06.539 --> 00:24:07.259 No, no idea. 308 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:10.559 It's so, it's so sweet. 309 00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:18.779 I think if Richard were here, you know, he would be comparing it to Carrie Granton, Catherine Hepburn or Spencer Tracy and Catherine Hepburn. 310 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:23.819 You know, they have that rapid fire thing between them, Matt and Jenner. really gel very quickly. 311 00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:26.400 And also that's such an easy thing to answer. 312 00:24:26.460 --> 00:24:27.900 Doctor Who Planet of the Daleks. 313 00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:30.119 Yeah. 314 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:40.200 I think they missed a trick with the whole Susan connection by not having Clara at the end screaming, going, no, grandfather, no. 315 00:24:50.039 --> 00:25:04.680 But it is quite nice because it's a fantastical situation, but in those scenes with Clara and Mary, Jenna is great and she's really playing it just like a normal person who's come across child in distress and reaching out to them. 316 00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:06.299 There's no kind of space acting involved. 317 00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:12.539 But she's had 3 episodes in a row where she's had to be with small children at some point. 318 00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:18.960 You know, she's a master at acting with them and helping their performances or some of them anyway. 319 00:25:19.019 --> 00:25:27.299 It is very strange because we very definitely seem to be wanting to position Clara as someone who is very caring. 320 00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:42.960 And I don't know whether I've just got a false impression, but I think that she is much more brittle and much less like that in her last 2 seasons, but maybe it's because I haven't rewatched them recently. 321 00:25:43.019 --> 00:25:48.180 Well, I think, though, the ongoing plot does attempt to explain why that is. 322 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:52.140 But yeah, I think early on, we are we are setting up for that. 323 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:59.099 And something I really like about it is, you know, we've had the flashback, we know what's happened to Clara's mother, Ellie. 324 00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:04.440 But the story never says Clara looks after children because this happened to her. 325 00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:10.859 I think that's definitely the conclusion we're meant to draw as the audience, but it's not crammed down our throats. 326 00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:13.259 It's organic character development. 327 00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:22.380 And something that I don't think is ever commented on is Ellie dies on the 2nd day that Rose takes place. 328 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:25.859 So it's highly likely that Ellie was killed by an auton. 329 00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:33.599 Yeah, I mean, I kind of want her not to have died for space reasons, obviously. because lots of people died on that day. 330 00:26:33.660 --> 00:26:34.140 Do you know what I mean? 331 00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:35.279 And weren't... 332 00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:35.940 Yeah, totally. 333 00:26:35.940 --> 00:26:37.259 When dresses or whatever. 334 00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:39.960 But that date was also chosen by the production team. 335 00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:45.779 You know, and I only noticed it this time around because I went, oh, yeah, it's 2005. when the new series came back. 336 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:50.400 Oh yeah, it's March, which is when it's the 5th and I'm going to Doctor Who Wikia now. 337 00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:55.019 But yeah, Jenna has such warmth in her performance there. 338 00:26:55.079 --> 00:27:01.859 And even when it looks like she was wrong and, you know, singing the song was a bad idea. 339 00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:09.180 And even when Mary attacks her, her instinct is, no, Mary, I know you're scared, I'm going to protect you. 340 00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:15.180 It's really well done and it's done without big speechifying or explaining character motivation. 341 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:16.920 Is Moffat doing a thing here? 342 00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:25.920 Because we talked in the last podcast about the fact that the great intelligence, it's thing is corrupting children and turning into things. 343 00:27:25.980 --> 00:27:32.400 So is Moffat playing that against the fact that Clara has this really maternal role and bond with children? 344 00:27:32.460 --> 00:27:34.200 Yeah, maybe. 345 00:27:34.259 --> 00:27:41.220 Maybe there, I mean, Moffat, you know, the Moffat era is the 1st era of Doctor Who ever to regularly bring children into it. 346 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:43.440 You know, it is a Moffat thing. 347 00:27:43.500 --> 00:27:51.420 There aren't many children in Doctor Who before then. and there haven't been many children subsequent to that either. 348 00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:59.099 And, you know, for Moffatt, Doctor Who is the thing that you are slightly scared of that you watch as a child. 349 00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:06.240 And Mothat might be the only producer, stroke showrunner who has young children. time, didn't you? 350 00:28:06.299 --> 00:28:07.019 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 351 00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:24.000 Can we talk about the setting? 352 00:28:24.059 --> 00:28:36.660 I sometimes wonder whether part of the antipathy towards this show is that if you're a big kind of space science fiction, the setting is preposterous. 353 00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:39.180 So Ackerton is a son. 354 00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:45.180 See, this is where I was confused because it's referred to as a sun at the beginning, but then it's referred to as a gas giant. 355 00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:47.220 But maybe it's a binary star system. 356 00:28:47.339 --> 00:28:50.279 It's a gas giant with a frowny face in eyes. 357 00:28:50.339 --> 00:28:58.259 So you've got the rings, which is like a, you know, like a disc of kind of, you know, asteroids. 358 00:28:58.259 --> 00:29:04.740 And we see 2 of the 7 asteroids or worlds or planets and they get referred to as planets. 359 00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:08.759 Yeah, but they're not spherical or spheroid. 360 00:29:08.819 --> 00:29:13.079 And in fact, the marketplace seems to be built on top. 361 00:29:13.140 --> 00:29:28.380 In fact, you know, on both planets, we seem to be building on top of the asteroid, as if down was kind of still working and we get these planets that we can see from one planet to another one, sound appears to carry from one planet to the other one. 362 00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:31.799 The moped appears to go from planet to planet in like 3 seconds. 363 00:29:31.859 --> 00:29:35.880 Yeah, so I'm sort of waving my hand in the corner and having a conniption. 364 00:29:35.940 --> 00:29:36.900 Yes, that's the thing. 365 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:38.039 That's the problem I have with it. 366 00:29:38.099 --> 00:29:42.359 It's like they sort of viewing everything that seems to be going on with grandfather over there and what goes in between. 367 00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:47.759 And I can never work out if it's like from here to the end of this room or from here to like 2 suburbs away. 368 00:29:47.819 --> 00:29:48.240 Yeah. 369 00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:56.640 And so, that's one part of the episode where I kind of think, oh, that's a bit unrealistic, like, yeah, that there's not clear how all that happened. 370 00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:01.680 And I can understand why it raises people's ire because Doctor Who has never got its science wrong before. 371 00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:04.200 Yeah exactly right. 372 00:30:04.259 --> 00:30:06.779 I never will again. 373 00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:13.500 I think that there is a really, really proper effort to put something super weird on the screen. 374 00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:15.240 That's kind of why I like it. 375 00:30:15.299 --> 00:30:16.079 Yeah, me too. 376 00:30:16.140 --> 00:30:18.359 But you see, he wrote this after. 377 00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:32.039 The other episode, which he does later in the season, is tied, which they liked, and then they got him to do some reason. as that can be, but that also tries to do something a bit different from what you expect. 378 00:30:32.099 --> 00:30:34.259 And so I think that's sort of similar here. 379 00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:34.980 Yeah. 380 00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:42.599 The concept of this episode came about because Marcus Wilson, I can't remember if he's producer or co-exec at this point. 381 00:30:42.660 --> 00:30:56.039 No, I think I think just producer, but he pointed out to Stephen Moffatt, look, in the 1st half of this series, we had our American shoot and our Spanish shoot, we don't have a budget for an international shoot in this half, but we still want something visually spectacular. 382 00:30:56.099 --> 00:31:01.079 What if we created something on the scale of an international shoot as a science fiction setting? 383 00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:06.000 So it's like, right, we're going to have this marketplace and we're going to have this pyramid and we're going to have more aliens than we've ever had before. 384 00:31:06.059 --> 00:31:10.619 And the alien design work is one of the really successful things. 385 00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:15.839 Like I only spotted one of them that was a reuse of an alien from earlier in the series. 386 00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:19.680 And they did, they did say, oh, we can have Jadoon and we can have this and we can have that. 387 00:31:19.740 --> 00:31:26.039 And Stephen Moffat actually said, no, if we're going to do this, let's not make it look like we've just raided the costume cupboard. 388 00:31:26.099 --> 00:31:26.460 Yeah. 389 00:31:26.460 --> 00:31:32.700 You know, and pretty much that went down to, okay, in that case, we're not having Jadoon and Hoyks and Slovine. 390 00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:33.299 Yeah. 391 00:31:33.299 --> 00:31:37.559 Although I think that one of the brothers hot pylene or something is... 392 00:31:37.619 --> 00:31:45.299 And I think someone has mugged some half, stolen, stolen their breathing things, left them to drown. 393 00:31:45.299 --> 00:31:51.240 When they were mugged, they tried to call out for help and it was... 394 00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:55.380 Poor half key. 395 00:31:56.579 --> 00:32:01.140 It's kind of like there are moments where the marketplace looks really cheap. 396 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:02.339 Yeah, yeah. 397 00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:04.079 Hey, but it's Doctor Who. 398 00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:05.700 The set looks really terrible. 399 00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:17.640 I think a lot of it looks good and I kind of go, no, I would rather you look cheap when you're trying to be ambitious than be cheap because you think it's going to look bad anyway. 400 00:32:17.700 --> 00:32:18.779 Yeah, you know. 401 00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:19.259 Yeah. 402 00:32:19.259 --> 00:32:26.400 Do you think some of the, I think some of the green screen is not the best. like whether it be on the moped going between the planets or whatever. 403 00:32:26.460 --> 00:32:31.319 Or where Mary is being dragged by that force field across to the grandfather's planet. 404 00:32:31.380 --> 00:32:34.740 Which, of course, then undermines the whole distance between things. 405 00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:35.759 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 406 00:32:35.819 --> 00:32:42.119 And it's like the problem with Chromickey and the classic series and that some of it actually really is good, which only highlights the bits that aren't. 407 00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:42.720 Yeah. 408 00:32:42.779 --> 00:32:44.759 But again, I think I would agree with you. 409 00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:55.259 Rather than do the 90 Star Trek thing of, let's just not show anything too interesting because that would be expensive, we get, we don't care. 410 00:32:55.319 --> 00:32:59.039 Let's try and see what we can do and some of it falls flat. 411 00:32:59.099 --> 00:33:00.720 But they deserve praise. 412 00:33:00.779 --> 00:33:01.259 Yeah. 413 00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:12.059 I think I think they deserve praise for being like that rather than then coming, cutting back and saying, well, we just did this and this happened, you know, without actually seeing it, you know, like 90 Star Trek voyager, it does. 414 00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:15.539 Yeah, it's kind of like with the mopeds. 415 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:23.700 That came about because as part of this idea, Marcus Wilson said to Neil Cross, you know what we've never done in Doctor Who? 416 00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:28.920 We've never done something as good as the speeder bike chase in Return of the Jedi. 417 00:33:28.980 --> 00:33:29.880 It never will. 418 00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:32.940 Yeah, it's like, you still haven't, mate. 419 00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:35.039 That's the genesis of the idea. 420 00:33:35.099 --> 00:33:39.900 And I think it's one of those things where by the time it comes for them to do it. 421 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:48.000 They've kind of forgotten the original intent and they're just doing it because it's there instead of just going, you know what? 422 00:33:48.059 --> 00:33:55.019 Let's have a transmat cubicle over here and save the money to do this other shot here. 423 00:33:55.079 --> 00:34:02.700 But at the same time, it's like the speed of bike stuff is sorry, the moped stuff is not as bad as I remember it then. 424 00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:03.119 Yeah. 425 00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:19.679 The really dodgy bit of green screen for me is when the doctor's trying to unlock the door and he's standing about 3 or 4 metres away from Clara because the camera is focussed on him, which means she's out of focus, which means you get that CSO fuzziness around her head because there's no clean edge. 426 00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:20.579 Yeah. 427 00:34:20.579 --> 00:34:23.219 And I'm just like, that's green screen 101. 428 00:34:23.340 --> 00:34:24.420 You've gotta have a clean edge. 429 00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:28.440 You got to have everything on the same plane or you shoot in multiple things. 430 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:33.659 In a way, I'm more critical of that than I am of the speed of bike because that's something simple. 431 00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:34.260 Yeah. 432 00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:45.360 I mean, look, the speed of bike is more interesting and having it go between planets rather than just from this mountain to the nearby mountain is also more interesting. 433 00:34:45.420 --> 00:34:52.739 And so, look, I mean, the effects often don't come off at all, but, you know, it's Doctor Who. 434 00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:58.980 It's interesting how the Sonic's used here too. against those soldiers with the blue energy and all that sort of thing. 435 00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:01.380 It's much more of a weapon type thing. 436 00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:13.920 I love the fact that it seems like it's costing Matt physical effort to hold the Sonic up under the door and that's actually really funny. like that's an actually sort of fun beer. 437 00:35:13.980 --> 00:35:15.840 Yeah, it's a good moment, I think. 438 00:35:15.900 --> 00:35:16.559 Yeah, yeah. 439 00:35:16.619 --> 00:35:18.599 Yeah, withholding back the vigil. 440 00:35:18.659 --> 00:35:24.119 There was a scripted explanation that was cut basically because it was an exposition speech during a fight. 441 00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:25.679 Yeah, like we're not going to do that. 442 00:35:25.739 --> 00:35:30.420 And that is the vigil, they've got those grill like mouths because they're speakers. 443 00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:31.860 They're attacking with sonic energy. 444 00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:37.139 Ergo, the Sonic can counteract that and the doctor says, it's like noise cancelling headphones. 445 00:35:37.139 --> 00:35:41.579 And Clara says, what a noise cancelling. doesn't know about tech. 446 00:35:41.699 --> 00:35:43.559 We'll start with Clara. 447 00:35:43.619 --> 00:35:44.340 What's the Internet? 448 00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:46.440 Voice cancelling headphones. 449 00:35:46.500 --> 00:35:48.480 Yeah, she's very non-techy. 450 00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:49.920 Brandon, that's brilliant. 451 00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:52.079 That's just improved this story. 452 00:35:52.139 --> 00:35:53.820 And the thing is, the effects. 453 00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:55.860 Once I read that, I thought about the effect. 454 00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:58.559 It's like, yeah, he's absolutely making a bubble around. 455 00:35:58.619 --> 00:36:07.079 And he does comment with the door that it's based on an audio lock, which for a culture based around song makes sense. 456 00:36:07.139 --> 00:36:13.320 And later, Mary, you know, remembers a song about a secret passageway and that opens the secret passageway. 457 00:36:13.380 --> 00:36:18.000 And that's the kind of alien thought logic that you get way back in the web planet. 458 00:36:18.059 --> 00:36:20.039 A silent wall. 459 00:36:20.099 --> 00:36:23.340 We must make mouths in it with our guns so it will speak more light. 460 00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:35.639 You know, and for me, that that beauty and effort to imagine what a different culture would emphasise and make important makes up for the deficiencies in this episode. 461 00:36:35.699 --> 00:36:40.679 This kind of is a bit where planetish in that there's some imagination happening. 462 00:36:40.739 --> 00:36:42.360 And I'm all on board for that. 463 00:36:42.420 --> 00:36:50.400 But you mentioned the singing, and I think that is another major reason why people don't like it because people don't come to Dot 2 for singing in general. 464 00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:57.599 I do quite like it because I think it's done quite nicely and I think it's an imaginative idea, but the episode is heavily focussed on it. 465 00:36:57.659 --> 00:37:07.019 I like that, though, because it does sort of work well with the rest of the sort of fantasy environment and it is literally magic, isn't it? 466 00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:09.239 You aren't to certain words in certain patterns. 467 00:37:09.300 --> 00:37:12.239 You do a ritual that you can't make a mistake in. 468 00:37:12.300 --> 00:37:17.159 All of those things are features of magic and religious ritual. 469 00:37:17.219 --> 00:37:22.679 And I think that it works really well too, because the music is great. 470 00:37:22.739 --> 00:37:30.119 And it means something to me retrospectively because it's the music that's used during Matt's regeneration. 471 00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:32.760 And that makes me very sad. 472 00:37:32.940 --> 00:37:34.980 So it has resonance. 473 00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:38.760 First time through, I just gave up with the singing. 474 00:37:38.820 --> 00:37:39.780 I was going, oh, please. 475 00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:42.000 But I really agree with you. 476 00:37:42.059 --> 00:37:45.840 I really think it's beautiful and I don't love the way it's actually used now. 477 00:37:45.900 --> 00:38:03.960 Do you remember that exchange in a Christmas carol, where the doctor gives space reasons why the shark is carved by Catherine Jenkins seeing and the fish start biting him to make him stop doing it because the real reason is the sharks love the singing. 478 00:38:04.019 --> 00:38:12.960 And here, I just think the worst thing that you could possibly do is space reasons to explain away how the singing works. 479 00:38:13.019 --> 00:38:15.059 The singing works because it's magic. 480 00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:29.280 The singing works because it's a bunch of people together, all doing something and it's meant to placate this sort of horrible thing and it works because we've all joined together despite our different backgrounds and stuff like that. 481 00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:35.579 We've all brought something to sacrifice, and that has an effect on the monster, which is also magical. 482 00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:36.239 Yeah. 483 00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:48.900 And it ties in with the concept of sentimental value as currency because all of these people are singing with sentiment. 484 00:38:49.019 --> 00:38:53.159 You know, they're singing because they love the grandfather, you know what I mean? 485 00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:58.440 And they think that this is what the grandfather wants. 486 00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:07.440 And both Moffatt and RTD to this point had both been critical of religion, but also praising religion, like in gridlock. 487 00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:08.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 488 00:39:08.460 --> 00:39:08.820 You know? 489 00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:14.880 And so I think what it sort of makes clear is, you know, Doctor Who is not anti-religion. 490 00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:23.760 And sometimes people pick up on stories like this or, you know, the whole plot with the silence and kind of point to Doctor Who and, you know, Doctor Who's saying religion is bad. 491 00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:24.840 It's like, no, no, no. 492 00:39:24.900 --> 00:39:28.800 You know, Doctor Who is saying it's a pile of good things and a pile of bad things. 493 00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:30.300 And when it's good, it's beautiful. 494 00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:45.360 Do you remember that exchange where the doctor says to Clara, they think that this is where all life in the universe came from, and she kind of pins him, tries to pin him down on whether it's true or not. 495 00:39:45.420 --> 00:39:47.340 And he says it's a lovely story. 496 00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:52.800 And so that does introduce the idea of like religion as a source of truth or not. 497 00:39:52.860 --> 00:40:05.400 Yeah And, you know, when they're over with the creature, we think, is the grandfather at the time. and the tenor is still desperately singing to try and put him to sleep and the doctor sort of sits down in front of him. 498 00:40:05.460 --> 00:40:11.579 And the subtext of the conversation is basically like, you didn't do anything wrong, but you can't do anything now. 499 00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:12.360 I've got this. 500 00:40:12.420 --> 00:40:13.739 You're okay. 501 00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:21.360 And he, you know, he doesn't do it by destroying the guy's belief, he doesn't do it by tearing him down and saying, you know, you're a stupid idiot. 502 00:40:21.420 --> 00:40:26.940 He respects the effort and belief that this guy has put into his life. 503 00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:31.260 And it's it's not his fault that he's been lied to and deceived. 504 00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:31.679 Yeah. 505 00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:34.019 And it's not his fault that he's believed the lie. 506 00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:36.900 The doctor's just like, no, I will handle this. 507 00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:38.820 You know, you get out of here to save yourself. 508 00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:42.360 And it's really a lovely and sweet moment. 509 00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:46.980 It's like so much of this episode, I think it goes against expectations. 510 00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:54.239 You know, there are stories where we have, you know, evil gods or things that aren't gods and the doctor decries them and what have you. 511 00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:59.579 But here, I think he recognises the differences this guy's motivation is pure. 512 00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:06.000 I actually cried watching that little moment this time because this guy basically has no character, you know. 513 00:41:06.059 --> 00:41:11.400 His whole life is this, and it's all we see him doing, and it's been destroyed. 514 00:41:11.460 --> 00:41:16.980 And in just a few lines between them, there's acknowledgement, there's respect, there's acceptance. 515 00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:20.820 Yeah, this story is a lot cleverer than I gave it credit for going in. 516 00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:23.579 And also, it's not any kind of singing. 517 00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:28.260 I mean, they're not all getting together and singing love in the 1st degree drama. 518 00:41:28.380 --> 00:41:29.940 It's a hymn, a long song. 519 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:31.679 And so it sort of plays into that. 520 00:41:31.739 --> 00:41:34.139 And I think it's quite beautiful, actually. 521 00:41:34.980 --> 00:41:42.539 Like, I'm an atheist, but I sometimes, jealousy is not the right word. 522 00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:48.599 But I sometimes wish I had... 523 00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:49.679 The certainty. 524 00:41:49.739 --> 00:42:02.639 The sort of quiet faith and serenity that I see, for instance, that my grandmother's had who were religious, you know, and I, it's not, it's something I've decided not to pursue because I know I wouldn't really be believing in it. 525 00:42:02.699 --> 00:42:08.820 But I think this story highlights that that is possible and that is a net positive. 526 00:42:09.179 --> 00:42:13.440 But it does it without, it does it without judgement. 527 00:42:13.500 --> 00:42:15.420 It doesn't say it's a good thing or a bad thing. 528 00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:17.760 It says it's a good thing for these people and it works for these people. 529 00:42:17.820 --> 00:42:20.519 Yeah, I mean, it's like gridlock, isn't it? 530 00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:24.059 It is like gridlock, which has prophecies and all sorts of things that come true. 531 00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:26.639 It has the people singing a Christian hymn together. 532 00:42:26.699 --> 00:42:35.760 And the doctor's reaction is, you know, this is just here to prevent you from doing anything about the situation that you find yourself in. 533 00:42:35.820 --> 00:42:45.840 But Martha's response is that this is kind of an expression of human solidarity that these people use to sustain themselves. 534 00:42:45.900 --> 00:43:01.260 And so the religious trappings of this, and the fact that it all works via magic, I think, kind of raises those questions without sort of properly answering them, and that's a good thing. 535 00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:06.239 Also, the trappings of religion can have their own social effect, even without the religion. 536 00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:16.739 So people gain together who never go to church, but go to church on Christmas Eve to enjoy the carols and the hymns and that, that can have its own cohesive effect and there's nothing more social. 537 00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:19.380 You know, the great social activities, people singing together. 538 00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:32.820 Can we talk about the end? 539 00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:35.099 So the climax. 540 00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:35.579 Is that all right? 541 00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:36.780 Oh, so did you want to... 542 00:43:37.619 --> 00:43:40.199 No, I'm just enjoying this discussion of religion. 543 00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:42.179 I think it's really interesting. 544 00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:57.059 I'm always reminded of Major Kira on Deep Space 9 and that performance and the way that character was crafted by none of visitor and the writers, in that she had that absolute faith and certainty in that grounding in that character over those 7 years. 545 00:43:57.119 --> 00:43:59.039 That's a performance that I always look to. 546 00:43:59.099 --> 00:44:01.019 But the stuff you were saying, Brendan, yeah. 547 00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:02.639 It's quite affecting. 548 00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:08.159 I think there's a lot here that you can miss if you just take it at surface level. 549 00:44:08.219 --> 00:44:16.559 But let's go on to the actual climax of this whole thing, which is giving Matt Smith a huge speech. 550 00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:21.480 I don't like his delivery of this speech at all. 551 00:44:21.539 --> 00:44:26.039 And I guess, what are we trying to do? 552 00:44:26.099 --> 00:44:33.480 Are we trying to recreate the speech from the Pandoraca opens, which I think is a remarkable performance. 553 00:44:33.539 --> 00:44:35.340 Like it's really quite extraordinary. 554 00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:38.519 It's rainy, there's flashing lights ahead. 555 00:44:38.579 --> 00:44:40.739 He's got this big microphone thing. 556 00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:47.400 He's talking as if he's addressing a massive crowd of people and he does it in all sorts of surprising ways. 557 00:44:47.460 --> 00:44:49.860 And I think it works really well. 558 00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:53.219 It's because it's in Pandora Opens. 559 00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:59.579 It's a dramatic speech, which is given a grandstanding delivery by Matt, and this is a grandstanding speech. 560 00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:00.480 Yeah, yeah. 561 00:45:00.539 --> 00:45:08.579 Also, I think that, you know, the Pandora speech is so incredibly well directed as well with all those shots from above and stuff like that. 562 00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:11.280 Here, he's like on a studio set. 563 00:45:11.340 --> 00:45:18.119 It's much more constrained and the speech, I think, is a bit crummy. 564 00:45:18.179 --> 00:45:23.880 Like it is a little bit kind of, I don't know, it's philosophical. 565 00:45:23.940 --> 00:45:28.139 It's hard to know how a character would, like, what does he want? 566 00:45:28.199 --> 00:45:29.760 you know, like it's, I don't know. 567 00:45:29.820 --> 00:45:31.380 In the Pandorica speech, right? 568 00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:39.900 He's desperate to scare these people off despite the fact that he has no plan and no weapons and these are all of his enemies and stuff. 569 00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:42.360 So there's a character thing to do. 570 00:45:42.420 --> 00:45:49.559 Here, he's just kind of saying a lot of platitudes and I just don't think he pulls it off. 571 00:45:49.619 --> 00:45:54.840 He's saying it so that, you know, ultimately it will fail, so that Clara will come. 572 00:45:54.900 --> 00:45:55.860 That's the reason why. 573 00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:58.500 And that makes the speech fail. 574 00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:06.780 But we've talked about this, Nathan, the fact that we're now at the point where the writers are writing moments for Matt. 575 00:46:06.840 --> 00:46:11.099 And so here's a big speech for him rather than the Pandorica, where site yet unseen. 576 00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:12.000 Yeah, yeah. 577 00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:25.679 And I just think that also without his team of River Amy and Rory in this 2nd half of the season, they're trying to give Matt these moments to sort of carry the episode. 578 00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:37.260 I think he works so much better when he's got the Paternoster game with him because he's not having, like, he can bounce off different things and come up with different things and it's much more organic when it's just him and Clara. 579 00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:38.039 Yeah. 580 00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:43.679 Then he has to carry the workload and then just making it about his performance and what he can do. 581 00:46:43.739 --> 00:46:46.619 Oh, this is a Matt Smith thing, whether he's twirling around or whatever. 582 00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:50.039 And I think, and I don't say this in a horrible way. 583 00:46:50.099 --> 00:46:56.880 But this is the moment for me that Matt begins to go off the boil in terms of what comes next. 584 00:46:56.940 --> 00:47:01.079 I just think I kind of begin to go, oh, it's a Matt Smith thing. 585 00:47:01.139 --> 00:47:06.539 Matt Smith thing in episodes coming up because he has to carry much more of the action because there's only the 2 of them. 586 00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:09.599 I'm not saying that's a bad thing because I think Matt's brilliant. 587 00:47:09.659 --> 00:47:11.219 But back to this. 588 00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:13.440 This is, I totally agree with you. 589 00:47:13.500 --> 00:47:14.400 It doesn't quite work. 590 00:47:14.460 --> 00:47:21.659 Yeah, I think this is the moment for me as well, where I start to think he's not pulling it off. 591 00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:23.760 And I don't think it's entirely Matt's fault. 592 00:47:23.820 --> 00:47:25.440 I don't think it's a good speech. 593 00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:28.619 It's just the fact he doesn't have Amy and Rory and River. 594 00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:31.019 That sort of was the nucleus of his performance. 595 00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:33.480 And now he's having to he's having to strike out on his own. 596 00:47:33.539 --> 00:47:35.039 But it's what you were saying, Nathan. 597 00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:36.420 I don't think the writings all that good. 598 00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:39.539 It feels a bit fan servicey, this kind of speech. 599 00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:41.039 Oh yeah, he's talking about that bit. 600 00:47:41.099 --> 00:47:42.539 They should have just gone further. 601 00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:47.820 You know, I've walked in universes where Stephen and Dodo acted like simpletons while playing hopscotch. 602 00:47:48.360 --> 00:47:50.099 Stuff like that. 603 00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:51.780 But it all felt a bit lame. 604 00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:52.800 Yeah, yeah. 605 00:47:52.860 --> 00:47:55.860 I think it needed it needed precision. 606 00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:59.460 Like, I walked in universes where the laws and physics had gone mad. 607 00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:02.760 No, I've walked in universes where the earth died in flame. 608 00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:04.380 Yeah. 609 00:48:04.380 --> 00:48:10.619 Perhaps what it needed was that Stephen Muffin needed to come in and actually rewrite this heavily and I don't think that's necessarily happened. 610 00:48:10.739 --> 00:48:11.280 Yeah. 611 00:48:11.340 --> 00:48:12.780 It was almost worse. 612 00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:14.219 Oh, yeah. 613 00:48:14.219 --> 00:48:15.539 It was almost worse. 614 00:48:15.659 --> 00:48:17.400 Something about Stephen and Dodo. 615 00:48:17.460 --> 00:48:18.239 No? 616 00:48:18.239 --> 00:48:19.380 Not the speech. 617 00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:21.420 The speech was the same in the draft. 618 00:48:21.539 --> 00:48:23.519 In the draft, it worked. 619 00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:26.340 In the draft, that destroyed Akaten. 620 00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:30.780 And it was Stephen Moffat who said, no, this is Clara's 1st trip. 621 00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:33.420 Clara needs to be integral to the solution. 622 00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:38.039 And the leaf had already been invented as part of the thing. 623 00:48:38.099 --> 00:48:41.579 And the whole thing with the leaf was Clara wouldn't give it up. 624 00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:43.139 So it gave away the ring instead. 625 00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:49.800 But she still had the leaf at the end. you know, and then Stephen Moffatt said to Neil. 626 00:48:49.860 --> 00:48:55.260 It's like, what if it looks like it works, but then Clara has to come over and use the leaf and explain what the leaf is. 627 00:48:55.320 --> 00:48:58.260 And he's like, of course, why didn't I think of that? 628 00:48:58.320 --> 00:48:59.219 And we get that. 629 00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:00.900 And that's the successful part of the ending. 630 00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:01.679 Yeah. 631 00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:02.039 Yeah. 632 00:49:02.099 --> 00:49:03.900 It really is the beast below, isn't it? 633 00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:07.139 Because Amy has the same function at the end. 634 00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:09.480 But without the doctor being a bloody moron. 635 00:49:10.019 --> 00:49:11.880 But yes, yes. 636 00:49:11.940 --> 00:49:17.460 And I think that's why I like it more than the beast below because it's not, oh, that's big cool. 637 00:49:18.119 --> 00:49:26.519 See, my problem with the beast below is Amy's solution is clever, but it's diminished by the fact that the doctor can't see the obvious. 638 00:49:26.639 --> 00:49:31.860 Whereas here, with everything we know, what the doctor has suggested should work. 639 00:49:31.860 --> 00:49:37.079 And it doesn't because the creature is infinite. 640 00:49:37.139 --> 00:49:45.480 But you know, the doctor thinks, oh, I can engorge it and make it explode, but it's like, no, no, no, your experiences are still finite. 641 00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:47.880 And Clara provides the infinite. 642 00:49:47.940 --> 00:49:55.559 And so the doctor's failure is a noble heroic failure rather than a failure of failing to understand the situation. 643 00:49:55.619 --> 00:50:01.079 But we're told that it eats your soul and that your soul is made up of stories. 644 00:50:01.139 --> 00:50:07.440 And so we feed it on things that have sentimental value and stuff like that because they're our stories. 645 00:50:07.500 --> 00:50:08.940 That's what our soul is about. 646 00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:11.579 And we're all very scared of it. 647 00:50:11.639 --> 00:50:16.079 But Matt gives his big speech and then what, he's fine? 648 00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:18.480 Well, he is time lord. 649 00:50:18.539 --> 00:50:20.159 But do you know what I mean? 650 00:50:20.340 --> 00:50:24.300 They're selling us some danger here that just never eventuates. 651 00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:29.219 He gives his big speech and then, you know, Jenna comes on and says, you know, move out of the way. 652 00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:30.059 I'll fix this. 653 00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:32.280 And she gives a better speech too. 654 00:50:32.340 --> 00:50:36.119 You're right, Todd, in that because this speech has to fail. 655 00:50:36.179 --> 00:50:38.340 It's not the climax of the episode, right? 656 00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:40.559 So he can't give a better speech than her. 657 00:50:40.619 --> 00:50:53.460 She has to give a better speech and perhaps it needs to be more heartfelt as well because it's about all of the things that never happened, all of the days that her mother never got to experience. 658 00:50:53.820 --> 00:51:00.960 And so it makes you wonder why they don't just keep grandfather in check by basically reciting their life stories. 659 00:51:01.019 --> 00:51:02.400 That's all it needs to. 660 00:51:02.519 --> 00:51:11.039 And like this is not the sort of thing that is going to hold up to even sort of fairly gentle scrutiny, I think. 661 00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:15.780 But like as far as the story goes. 662 00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:17.880 It's not clear what's at stake. 663 00:51:17.940 --> 00:51:25.380 Is Matt sacrificing his life for the sake of everyone else and Clara comes in and stops him from doing that. 664 00:51:25.980 --> 00:51:31.260 But no one seems to be under threat at all. 665 00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:35.639 It's just not clear what danger grandfather poses. 666 00:51:35.699 --> 00:51:37.559 Can you fry something for me? 667 00:51:37.619 --> 00:51:42.659 Like when they do dispense with grandfather, does that mean that whole son's gone and so... 668 00:51:42.719 --> 00:51:43.559 Yeah, I wanted that too. 669 00:51:43.619 --> 00:51:46.440 The whole system just collapses and nobody can live there. 670 00:51:46.500 --> 00:51:49.380 Please, the laws of unintended concerts. 671 00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:51.900 It does disappear, doesn't it? 672 00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:52.980 And it is completely dark. 673 00:51:53.099 --> 00:51:53.760 Yeah. 674 00:51:53.820 --> 00:51:58.739 And from what I can see, it was never considered a problem in the scripting state. 675 00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:04.559 It's not like there's a missing scene with the doctor saying, well, you know, he just took over the sun. 676 00:52:04.619 --> 00:52:06.659 It's a normal son that he was living on. 677 00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:10.019 It's like, no, it's gone and we just go back to London. 678 00:52:10.199 --> 00:52:13.380 No more days sunbathing for Dory. 679 00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:16.380 Do you remember that thing where? 680 00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:20.880 You know, the doctor tries to go, oh, you know, I've seen bigger. 681 00:52:20.940 --> 00:52:23.099 And Clara goes, what, really? 682 00:52:23.159 --> 00:52:24.719 He said, no, this is massive. 683 00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:28.199 That was brilliant. is really great. 684 00:52:28.260 --> 00:52:31.980 I mean, I think it has to be a gas giant, isn't it? 685 00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:32.880 It's got rings. 686 00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:33.960 Yeah, that makes sense. 687 00:52:33.960 --> 00:52:34.800 So it goes away. 688 00:52:34.860 --> 00:52:41.579 It's still like, you know, like gravitational collapse, but we're absolutely asking the wrong questions about the thing, I think. 689 00:52:41.639 --> 00:52:44.219 I think, but I do think it is worth asking. 690 00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:47.159 We don't know what threat's being posed here, like what the problem is. 691 00:52:47.219 --> 00:52:48.659 There is word peril. 692 00:52:48.719 --> 00:52:56.280 Mary says that grandfather will get out and feed on the souls of the 7 planets and then go forward through the universe and that's what one of the old songs says. 693 00:52:56.340 --> 00:52:57.119 Yeah. 694 00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:02.159 But, you know, I think it's while the vigil are going, and while the song's going... 695 00:53:02.219 --> 00:53:03.659 So it's a bit hard to hit. 696 00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:12.480 And this is why people don't like it because the stakes are not defined and so it feels a bit silly and it's all being held in check by singing and so it feels a bit silly. 697 00:53:12.539 --> 00:53:16.920 It's all shot against green screen and so it feels a bit silly, et cetera. 698 00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:18.000 But it's not. 699 00:53:18.059 --> 00:53:18.420 I like it. 700 00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:22.860 I like it too, but it's what Russell says about Zog monsters on the planet Zog. 701 00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:24.780 Yeah, Dog Monster, isn't she? 702 00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:26.340 And the thing is... 703 00:53:26.340 --> 00:53:32.280 I think you can get away with it occasionally. 704 00:53:32.340 --> 00:53:34.739 And I think we do get away with here. 705 00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:38.039 The 1st half has the same confidence as last week. 706 00:53:38.099 --> 00:53:47.219 It's like, yep, we are putting 20 different aliens on screen for you and you're going to enjoy it and that one has lights in his face and this one barks and rents out mopeds. 707 00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:53.880 Actually, it reminds me a bit of snake dance and we, you know, we made a snake dance joke earlier. 708 00:53:53.940 --> 00:53:54.960 Do you know what it reminds me? 709 00:53:55.019 --> 00:53:55.739 Oh, Dragonfire. 710 00:53:55.800 --> 00:53:56.280 Yes. 711 00:53:56.340 --> 00:53:57.059 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 712 00:53:57.119 --> 00:54:03.599 It's it's a criticism we made of Eric Saywood back in the day was that he wanted everything to be really sensible. 713 00:54:03.659 --> 00:54:12.960 And it was like, even Christopher Hamilton Bidmead, who was like, I don't want silliness and I want science, still writes, let's materialise the TARDIS and underwater and open the door. right. 714 00:54:13.019 --> 00:54:16.139 Let's get out of a time loop by acting it out. 715 00:54:16.199 --> 00:54:17.460 Yeah, yeah. 716 00:54:17.519 --> 00:54:22.500 Those are brilliant big bonkers ideas, which is what Doctor Who needs, and that's what we have here. 717 00:54:22.619 --> 00:54:26.099 And, you know, with the whole, so are they all dead now? 718 00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:28.199 It's like, nah, something happened and they're fine. 719 00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:34.320 You know, we know they're fine or else it's a matter of, oh, they wanted me to have my ring back. 720 00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:36.659 Yes, because they're all dead, Clara. 721 00:54:36.780 --> 00:54:39.659 We blew up a sun, Morty. 722 00:54:40.619 --> 00:54:45.420 I think getting the ring back from all of them is a beautiful moment. 723 00:54:45.480 --> 00:54:46.139 Yes. 724 00:54:46.139 --> 00:54:49.860 Maybe that's the rings of Akatown. 725 00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:52.199 Or the keys of marinace. 726 00:54:52.260 --> 00:54:54.239 Or the hats of the archi man drive. 727 00:54:54.300 --> 00:54:58.920 I like the fact that this is the 2nd episode in a road that's concerned with ringing the title. 728 00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:02.639 What will next week then? 729 00:55:03.059 --> 00:55:06.239 It's so nice to all Matt's little moment with the beano. 730 00:55:06.300 --> 00:55:07.260 Yeah, yeah. 731 00:55:07.260 --> 00:55:10.860 That remind me of Delta and the Bannerman with Murray. 732 00:55:10.920 --> 00:55:11.400 Yes. 733 00:55:11.460 --> 00:55:12.000 Yeah, yeah. 734 00:55:12.059 --> 00:55:16.139 I've got the dog 2 magazine, 1981 summer special, by the way. 735 00:55:16.199 --> 00:55:17.460 I should have been reading. 736 00:55:17.940 --> 00:55:21.900 It's got a profile of this new producer, JNT. 737 00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:26.340 And I think an examination of the other rooms in the Tartars. 738 00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:27.420 Oh my god. 739 00:55:27.539 --> 00:55:29.400 Nothing's changed. 740 00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:34.260 At the end, does Clara realised that the doctor was at the grave? 741 00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:34.860 Yes. 742 00:55:34.920 --> 00:55:35.400 Yeah, yeah. 743 00:55:35.460 --> 00:55:36.659 Does it make her suspicious? 744 00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:38.039 I can't remember. 745 00:55:38.099 --> 00:55:38.760 I just wrote it down. 746 00:55:38.820 --> 00:55:39.420 Yeah. 747 00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:46.019 She asks him about it and he says you remind me of someone I, someone I lost, someone who died. 748 00:55:46.079 --> 00:55:49.980 And her response is, well, no, I'm Clara. 749 00:55:50.039 --> 00:55:52.380 If I'm travelling, I'm not a replacement. 750 00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:53.820 And he's like, no, no, no. 751 00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:55.619 It's, look, it's fine. 752 00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:57.539 It's just that that's, I had to check. 753 00:55:57.599 --> 00:55:58.860 And she's like, okay. 754 00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:05.039 So it's actually a refreshing moment because, yeah, he didn't tell Amy about the flesh pregnancy thing. 755 00:56:05.099 --> 00:56:12.539 He didn't tell Amy that her house didn't make sense, but here he's questioned up front and he goes, you know, this is the situation. 756 00:56:12.599 --> 00:56:20.099 And he does basically tell her everything he currently. knows about it, except that she was in another time, but Clara can probably guess at that. 757 00:56:20.699 --> 00:56:30.780 I think, though, it is at this point made very clear to the doctor that Clara is just a normal person. 758 00:56:30.900 --> 00:56:32.880 He's seen her childhood, he's seen the funeral. 759 00:56:32.940 --> 00:56:35.940 He's met her, he's heard her speak. 760 00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:45.480 She tells him that she's not those other people or that other person, who he remembers, but he still sort of persists. 761 00:56:45.539 --> 00:56:50.639 And so it's another one of the Moffatt hiding the resolution in plain sight things. 762 00:56:50.699 --> 00:56:57.840 Turns out she's just completely normal and in no way impossible and it's just in the season finale. 763 00:56:57.900 --> 00:56:58.860 She does something remarkable. 764 00:56:58.920 --> 00:57:00.900 Yeah, but it's just her. 765 00:57:22.980 --> 00:57:26.340 Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week. 766 00:57:26.460 --> 00:57:30.960 We'll be back next week for the best of Ultravox in Cold War. 767 00:57:31.019 --> 00:57:49.139 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook at FDE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody InterTara, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project. 768 00:57:49.260 --> 00:57:56.280 Until next time, remember to respect the Todd experience, because one day, it might just happen to you. 769 00:57:56.340 --> 00:57:59.099 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 770 00:57:59.159 --> 00:57:59.880 Good night. 771 00:57:59.940 --> 00:58:01.019 See you soon. 772 00:58:01.079 --> 00:58:01.980 Good night. 773 00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:15.480 That was Flight Through Entirety, sir, and Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffith, and Brendan Jones, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 774 00:58:15.539 --> 00:58:22.199 This episode, there's an apostrophe, was recorded on the 29th of May 2022 and released on the 11th of September. 775 00:58:25.260 --> 00:58:29.820 We all enjoyed the Rings of Ackerson, but due to its eccentric ideas about planetary physics. 776 00:58:29.880 --> 00:58:34.679 Please don't mention it to American astrophysicist and Notorious internet pedant Neil DeGrasse Tyson. 777 00:58:34.739 --> 00:58:36.840 Seriously, we'll never hear the end of it. 778 00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:45.659 But the doctor is basically a giver. 779 00:58:45.719 --> 00:58:49.500 He gives people these experiences where all the other grandfather does his take. 780 00:58:49.619 --> 00:58:50.699 Yeah, yeah. 781 00:58:50.699 --> 00:58:52.500 And they're both impossibly old. 782 00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:54.300 So he's a giver, not a taker. 783 00:58:54.360 --> 00:58:58.199 He's a given on a taker. that's right God, we're filthy today. 784 00:58:58.619 --> 00:59:00.539 We. 785 00:59:00.539 --> 00:59:03.840 Just wait until you hear what he said about Celia Emery. 786 00:59:03.900 --> 00:59:08.039 And if Nathan had to cut it, that could be... 787 00:59:08.039 --> 00:59:10.139 She was fantastic in that scene at the end. 788 00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:11.400 Yeah. 789 00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:12.179 It's a little girl. 790 00:59:12.239 --> 00:59:12.900 Just heartbreaking. 791 00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:14.159 They should have cast her as merry. 792 00:59:17.460 --> 00:59:20.579 I felt really wistful with that mention.