WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:24:22

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Hello, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast who would actually rather have a dance than go for a pint.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm exactly who you'd expect me to be.

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Well, that's some good news, because you know what, chaps, I think we've been on Earth for far too long.

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So I think it's time to head off into space, maybe even find a nice little planet to settle down and build a colony in space.

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Now That's awful.

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I thought that was bad.

9
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Here's my other joke for colony in space.

10
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And that's so that I, well, I really enjoy John Ringham's performance in this, I actually wish that the William Hartnell era act that they'd gotten back was Leonard Sachs, so I could say this was the Admiral de Coligny in space.

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Oh, dear.

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There we are, massacre joke for you, man.

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Can you cut all that?

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I'm a big fan.

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I'm a I'm an enormous fan of in space episodes.

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Do you know what I mean?

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I think frontier in space?

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It does promise a level of excitement, like the wheel in space.

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Wheeling space, frontier in space.

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And I always think it's a great disappointment.

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We used to sort of say, wouldn't it be great if there'd been a Doctor Who story called The Planets in Space.

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This is almost that.

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This would be fun.

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Yeah, yeah, it is.

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And look, I am just gonna broach my problem with this story because, as was hinted at last episode...

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And the episode before, you've been going on about it.

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It's getting tiresome.

28
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Yeah, yeah.

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It's almost as if, you know, a story from 1966 that someone happened not to like very much and never stops talking about.

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Well, only someone crazy with it.

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Yeah, I know, I know.

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But also yesterday at your housewarming party, Nathan, we were talking to friends of the podcast, Brian and Simon.

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And when they spoke to me, they said, now you said you didn't like colony in space.

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And we take issue with that because we really like it.

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And I said, well, there's one major problem with it.

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I'm going to get that out of the way now because there's still a lot.

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There's still a lot I like about this story.

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But this is our 1st Doctor Who story, since the show has been to colour, that the TARDIS has travelled off earth to another planet.

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We had a brief bit of travel at the end of Cause of Axos, but nothing major.

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So, you know, this is the 1st time we're returning to the formula of the 60s, if doctor goes to an alien planet and gets embroiled in the local problems there.

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After that year and a half .

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Our 1st ball colour planet is this beige sand quarry filled with people in tie, almost tie-dye green jumpsuits, 70s, pick a moustache, and stick it on disguises, what have you.

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It's so disappointing.

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We've already discussed.

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This is like the year of the 2nd reboot of Doctor Who.

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Last year was a dress rehearsal for this reboot.

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And there's so much they've got rights this year or more right, I suppose. in that, you know, Katie Manning's Joe Grant is a more effective companion.

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I've said it before and I said it again, I love Liz, but Joe fits this mould on the show.

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Exactly.

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We've expanded the military roster.

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So the brigadier has sort of a trusted central team and then lots of people around him.

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We have a charismatic villain who, of course, you don't want to win, but really you rather like him.

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And it's just a shame that when Doctor Who finally steps out into space again.

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They don't use the same amount of aplomb, if you like.

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There isn't the joy de vivre that we've had with the last few stories of reinvention.

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But you know, the thing is this.

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We've been on Earth for so long in this production team, I feel, is used to, if they haven't really done anything away from Earth before.

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So they're finding their feet.

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So I think, you know, that is the one aspect of this production that might be lacking and that they might make up for in the future.

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Because it is, I mean, it's a throwback to the my old show, the one that they cancelled at the early 1969.

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There's even a little shout out to the dialects, I think, because Joe picks up a flower soon after arriving on our 1st alien planet.

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Yeah, which is exactly what Susan did.

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So yeah, there is that sort of respect to the past.

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But do you want to know what the radio times write-up that this episode was, this 1st episode of Comedy in space?

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Oh, God.

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So the 1st time Doctor Who's going back out into space in almost 2 years.

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And the way the production team at the radio times choose to announce that is...

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The doctor faces unknown danger on an alien planet.

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Well, Statney of Idols isn't that exciting.

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Well, he hasn't done it for a long time.

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He really hasn't faced on no danger in an alien planet for ages.

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You know, something like this happened to Russell T. Davis and he wrote a very funny column about it in Doctor Who magazine.

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He was flicking through his electronic program guide and he came across Doctor Who.

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There was no story title, and it was, the write-up was Doctor Who Defends the Humans from Alien Attack..

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It's just so generic and it's such a shame.

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But that's not to say I hate this story.

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It's just that's a big bugware, and it is a hard thing to get over because we're going to spend a lot of time on this planet.

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Look, I actually think that that's a pretty reasonable criticism.

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This is my favourite story of the season.

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But the setting is drab and it is that is disappointing and it's particularly just that that gray quarry where it's been raining and there's all that gray mart and stuff that is boring to look at.

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They do go out of their way to be a bit more sort of visual and interesting inside the city.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, that's one thing that's going for it.

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The internal sets, the um, the city, the colonists areas, the IMC spaceship, even the master's TARDIS are all very visually interesting.

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Yeah.

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The 3rd doctor's new TARDIS.

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Unfortunately, you still have that those 60s photographic blow-ups.

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Yeah, that's terrible.

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They get worse and worse in colour.

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There's some lovely new pieces.

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We have my favourite version of the classic series console.

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The refurbished old version.

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It's still a bit pale green because a lot of people were watching in colour, but you've got that lovely central column.

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Well, you can't quite see what's going on because there's so many layers of perspective.

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I really like that.

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It was always green, wasn't it?

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So that it looked wise.

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Exactly.

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Exactly, exactly.

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But this, gentleman, is a 1st for another reason.

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It's something involved in this artist, and I don't mean the popping effect, which just happened because the director, Michael E. Bryant, wasn't sure how the TARDIS fade in and out worked, so he just popped it.

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This is the 1st use of the phrase, coined by Mac Hook, dimensionally transcendental.

103
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Oh, really?

104
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Wasn't it always, though?

105
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No, no.

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This is the 1st story that implies that the TARDIS interior is different dimension to the exterior.

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Because, of course, we saw in Patrick Tran's last story, for instance, they land under the sea and water starts dripping onto the console.

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Right, yeah. you know, whereas this, it's dimensionally transended, we have transcended dimensions and that's it, speaker.

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And that becomes a big part of the story.

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The interior is not a different dimension.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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That's amazing.

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I didn't realise it was as late as that.

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It's part of his legacy of Doctor Who, that Terrence Dix and Baronets in their master plan have come up with this season.

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Or it's just a happy accident. accident, I think.

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It is actually a lot I like about the story.

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For me, it is a solid 6 out of 10.

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Because we have Matt Hawkes' great writing and great characterisation.

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It is really, really terrific.

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And Mac Hulk, we've talked about him before.

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He was a member of the Communicipality, and so this is a story that is suspicious of corporate behaviour.

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And so this is set in 500 years time, no, a 1000 years time. 500 years time. set in the 25th century.

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Okay, so it's set in 500 years time.

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And the Earth is a sort of terrible dystopia where the whole place is sort of massively overcrowded.

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I think there's 100000000000 people on earth.

126
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Yeah, he says 100,000 million, doesn't he?

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That's a great number, isn't it?

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100,000 gigs.

129
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It sounds are much bigger than one billion.

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It's a 100 billion.

131
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So there's a 100 people, a 100000000000 people living on Earth.

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There's nowhere for them to live, like they're building floating cities in the middle of the ocean.

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The whole place is sort of polluted and terrible and it's an oppressive totalitarian sort of political government where you can't dissent and all of that sort of thing.

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So these people are refugees from that, uh, and they all wear sort of vaguely hippie-ish.

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You know, like people talk of as if they were dressed in, um, like little house on the prairie or something, you know, Mary particular.

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But it's a sort of vague hippie sort of thing and they've all got sort of longer share and moustaches and stuff.

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Except the rather odd one who's dressed in one of the ambassador's spacesuits from last season.

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Not really.

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It's like everyone else has kind of gone, oh, we're on a planet, you know, we'll get into our day quotes now. he's like, I'm not getting out of my space.

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We could have to leave at any time.

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It's rather amusing to see them wander around the background, like stay puff the marshmallow, man.

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But it's quite nice to see in the background there are other female columnists.

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There's not more men.

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Yeah, she's actually nice in that 1st episode.

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And I actually like the leisurely pace of this story.

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I think the 1st episode sets things up really well.

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Again, they talk about the mask, they talk about the time on its exile.

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This has been reinforced to the audience.

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Joe's 1st time in the time.

150
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She's so tentative about going outside and the doctor is coaxing her out there and allaying her fears.

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I think that there's some really nice stuff in this 1st half of the episode.

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And I actually think there's a change in the 3rd doctor in this story.

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He's not as obnoxious.

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Thank you. for the word, Nathan.

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He's not he's not as nararchy.

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And certainly when it comes to the commerce at first, there is this bristling effect.

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I was thinking, oh, no, not again.

158
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But then he decides to work with Ash and he's really helpful.

159
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And he's really helpful. this is the 1st time we're really seeing this come through.

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Look, he does he does get to do some blustering outrage, but he does it against IMC.

161
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And even before he's landed, IMC have been sort of menacing.

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That's all right.

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There's the clink of glasses all the way through this podcast.

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It's one of our things.

165
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Sorry, it's okay.

166
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Oh, I've done it again.

167
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IMC have been being evil and they will kill someone, 2 people during the course of episode one.

168
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And so by the time the doctor meets them, we know that they're evil and so he does yell at them and accuse them of just being motivated by profit and all of that sort of thing.

169
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And so here having a proper target, not just someone who's come in and tried to help someone who is just evil and self-serving.

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The blustering outrage really works.

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I think.

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Yeah.

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I mean, there's so much that's great in the setup of this story, the way the way it's all, the way the world is created, the way this universe of the future of humanity is created.

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I think sort of in terms of definable years, this is the furthest we've been into the future.

175
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Of course, the arc is very, very far into the future.

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But typically when we've been given a date in the black and white Doctor Who eras.

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We've sort of looked at 22nd and 23rd century.

178
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But now we're really, really far into the future and there's been that huge population explosion.

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So coming back to something you were saying, Todd, about the way that Joe and the doctor's relationship is presented and how she's not quite sure she wants to go out.

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I think it's such a great development to the doctor's character that he's not just coaxing her.

181
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He's saying, please come with me, you know, I trust you with this.

182
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And she's the audience identification figure because, like, you know, we hadn't been.

183
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There might be members of the audience who haven't been outside the times, you know, outside of Earth, you know, if they've come.

184
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Almost all of them have never been outside of Earth.

185
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Oh, dear.

186
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It's one of those afternoons. encountered an adventure.

187
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You know, the show has been on life support in terms of ratings for a while.

188
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You know, it's certainly been making inroads over the last year and a half .

189
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Has it?

190
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Yes, it's actually holding its own between about 7 and 8000000 in fact, the story averaged about 9000000 viewers.

191
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This one was incredibly popular.

192
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Episode 3, it's 9.500000 viewers, right?

193
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Which is last season there was a 9.3.

194
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And the previous high over 9000000 was What, gentlemen?

195
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Was it the Web Planet?

196
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Is it something like 13?

197
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No, no, no, in terms of over 9000000 viewers.

198
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The last time we got over 9000000 viewers was...

199
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Space Pirates, episode four.

200
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Episode three, of the Celestial Troy Maker.

201
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Goodness.

202
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Pat got to 9000000 for Croton's episode one, but that's the highest he got to.

203
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This story does something else.

204
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And actually in terms of chant position, there's got 2 to the top 25 in episode 5 for the 1st time since the Daleks master plan.

205
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Wow.

206
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Wow.

207
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But I think what was happening, like, you know, in terms of what's happening this season and momentum that they're gaining and what they're doing, it goes through this story into the next as well.

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And you know, I mean, just as a bit of an aside, the demons, the last episode of the demons come 17th for the week, the 1st time Doctor Who has been in the top 20 since Galaxy 4.

209
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I love the Galaxy 4, always in the top 20.

210
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Episode 2 or 3 or something like that.

211
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But at the end of last season, the last 10 episodes fell away, the last 10 episodes or 15 episodes of Trout also fell away down to like, you know, under 5 million.

212
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Here it doesn't.

213
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Here it holds around 8000000 for the 1st time and the show is moving up the chart.

214
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So this is crucial, this story, I guess, for the future of the show.

215
00:14:29.340 --> 00:14:49.139
Yeah, I mean, I suppose this is the 1st season since season 5 where Doctor Who's future is assured, because we've discussed that Doctor Who was almost cancelled after season 6, but Derek Sherwin said, look, we can, we can change the format, we can make a more exciting, lots of lovely colour, a fewer episodes, that sort of thing.

216
00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:49.980
We ring the budget in.

217
00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:57.659
It was almost cancelled at the end of season 7 and the only reason it wasn't was they couldn't develop a good enough idea to replace it.

218
00:14:57.720 --> 00:14:59.279
So it kind of got renewed by default.

219
00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:06.059
But I think this is the 1st time where Doctor Who is secure for another season.

220
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:10.200
It's actually secure for much longer than that because it secures itself here.

221
00:15:10.259 --> 00:15:12.120
They come back with the Daleks the following season.

222
00:15:12.179 --> 00:15:17.940
That gives it boost, then it's the 10th anniversary, then it's, you know, Katie's leading and it's the new companion.

223
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:21.779
So you dropped her, you suddenly got this flow and effect that just keeps on flowing for the next 4 or 5 years.

224
00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:26.940
So everything that happens at the beginning of this season and want their big building to in these stories.

225
00:15:27.059 --> 00:15:30.480
I think secures the future of Doctor Who.

226
00:15:30.539 --> 00:15:35.820
It's not just this 8 season one day. suddenly going to run after this season for about 12 or 13 years.

227
00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:42.659
It's so it is so good because I love this season in context, whereas I always used to like season 7 better.

228
00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:47.159
And so it's nice to think that this reboot did the job.

229
00:15:47.220 --> 00:15:48.000
It was a success.

230
00:15:48.059 --> 00:15:58.320
It's working And the BBC was starting to get quite canny with their programming because each episode of Colony in Space, I think, with one exception was followed by an old Western movie.

231
00:15:58.980 --> 00:16:07.740
Very often picking up on the same kind of land claim ideas or um, the ideas of there's great wealth in this area.

232
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:13.799
We just need to find it and having someone coming in and trying to take the wealth from the people who, quote unquote, rightfully owned it.

233
00:16:13.860 --> 00:16:15.299
There's also one other thing.

234
00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.659
This story is broadcast an hour later at 6.15.

235
00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:26.159
Yes, they did push it back because of the violence in earlier stories, which, you know, worked, obviously, in favour of Doctor Who.

236
00:16:26.340 --> 00:16:40.440
Now, of course, one thing the story is really heavily about is mining as well, which is still quite relevant, especially for us in Australia, because we've recently had a mining boom, which, a lot of balance, say, is coming to an end just this week.

237
00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:52.679
A house is sold in Port Headland, which is, of course, a big mining community, but it was also a place where they had to get a lot of fly in, fly out workers because it was too expensive to live there.

238
00:16:52.740 --> 00:17:03.899
There was a house sold in Port Headland 4 years ago, a little 3 bedroom fibro home sold for $130000 at the peak of the mining boom.

239
00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:05.519
It was resold this week.

240
00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:08.279
Any any guesses as to what it was sold for?

241
00:17:08.339 --> 00:17:09.480
300,000?

242
00:17:09.539 --> 00:17:10.920
360,000.

243
00:17:11.099 --> 00:17:13.500
It's lost $1000000 in 4 years.

244
00:17:13.859 --> 00:17:22.079
So, you know, this, this idea of, no, you can't have this land to live on.

245
00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:23.519
We need to get the rocks out of it.

246
00:17:23.579 --> 00:17:26.579
It's far more valuable than as living space.

247
00:17:26.700 --> 00:17:28.380
It's still very topical.

248
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:37.859
And at this point in the 70s. of course, we later saw in the decade the incredibly popular, the good life, which was all about self-sufficiency.

249
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:42.599
So going back to self-sufficiency, getting away from big business was a big theme of the 70s.

250
00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:45.839
And it's a theme that Matt Cork will come back to time and time again.

251
00:17:45.900 --> 00:17:47.880
Along with a theme of giant lizards.

252
00:17:47.940 --> 00:17:49.259
Along with...

253
00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:52.859
So you can I just say that. about the giant lizards in this story.

254
00:17:52.920 --> 00:18:00.960
I think Mac Hawk is also having a little bit of fun with the format of the show because the giant lizards look like a crap special effect because...

255
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:04.259
They're supposed to be, actually.

256
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:05.339
It's a wonderful twist.

257
00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:09.299
Best twist since Coquillian, who you were very rude about last episode.

258
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:20.519
But I like the fact that you actually, I actually get involved with the columns and this fight against the minors and Captain Dent, who apparently Richmond was supposed to be a woman.

259
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:21.900
Not Captain Dent.

260
00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:24.180
Morgan was supposed to be the number two.

261
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:30.000
Yeah, who ends up being played by Tony Cornter, not particularly well, but he was brought in the last minute. you can kind of forget.

262
00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:31.019
Do you know who that woman was?

263
00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:32.519
No, tell me.

264
00:18:32.579 --> 00:18:33.480
Susan Jameson?

265
00:18:33.539 --> 00:18:43.079
who went on to play Mrs. Widzed in the Hornet's Nest, Demon's Crest, Serpent, Serpent, Crest, Serpent.

266
00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:46.799
No, it's your, in the Paul Mars next cottage audios.

267
00:18:46.859 --> 00:18:47.819
Right.

268
00:18:47.819 --> 00:18:49.200
Alongside Tom Baker.

269
00:18:49.259 --> 00:18:50.579
And she's absolutely wonderful in those.

270
00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:51.660
You know what?

271
00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:56.099
I have to say, I actually quite like Morgan, the evil number two.

272
00:18:56.220 --> 00:18:57.480
Just a sidekick, isn't he?

273
00:18:57.480 --> 00:18:58.019
He's murderous.

274
00:18:58.140 --> 00:18:58.920
It's murderous.

275
00:18:58.980 --> 00:19:01.799
He's actually quite sort of...

276
00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:03.420
I don't know, there's something about him.

277
00:19:03.539 --> 00:19:05.519
Oh, please cut back.

278
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:07.319
You fancy him.

279
00:19:07.380 --> 00:19:09.240
I must, I must.

280
00:19:09.299 --> 00:19:15.539
It's really quite interesting how like, it's really quite interesting how all the columnists have like, you know, the beards and all the beards.

281
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:24.240
And then you've got everybody on the spaceship. all clean shaven, but they're evil, except for the one guy who's good, who actually has the moustache.

282
00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:26.640
Yeah, it's a great thing of shorthand.

283
00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:30.539
Little behind the scenes story because they were wearing all this false hair.

284
00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:41.700
For the for the 1st for the 1st producer's rump, they collaborated with the makeup designer who sort of put extra moustaches on people's chins and whatnot, et cetera, et cetera.

285
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:44.759
And then the moustaches on their chins, that would be very odd.

286
00:19:44.819 --> 00:19:45.599
Yeah, exactly.

287
00:19:45.660 --> 00:19:46.380
But that's the thing.

288
00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:47.339
They were having a bit of a joke.

289
00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:51.480
And Barry Letts came down and gave them all the bollocking for wasting studio resources.

290
00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:55.980
And then Maurice Perry walked in his page boy week, and Barry turned around and bollocked him.

291
00:19:55.980 --> 00:19:58.380
And Maurice said, but this is...

292
00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:01.559
This is the week I'm meant to be wearing.

293
00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:07.200
And the backup to the one was like, yeah, that's his actual, that's his character's hair and Barry's like, oh, God, I'm so sorry.

294
00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:09.900
But you know what?

295
00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:10.559
It is ridiculous.

296
00:20:10.619 --> 00:20:12.059
I just got I just caught up.

297
00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:18.240
I got caught up in the whole story of them and then what's going on in the planet with these aliens.

298
00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:22.619
Like, I just got engrossed by it, and I forgot that the master was going to appear at some point.

299
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:33.480
That's brilliant, actually, because it's, it's, it's established right at the beginning of episode one in that scene, with the time lords, that, um, that the master is going to be in it.

300
00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:41.160
He's stolen the files, and then the brigadier comes in, he's talking about looking for the master, it was the Spanish ambassador.

301
00:20:41.220 --> 00:20:46.920
Yes, yeah, that's a quotation where it's like, yeah, he all these Spanish people look alike to me.

302
00:20:46.980 --> 00:20:48.599
Yeah, a little bit ruby, Mac.

303
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:50.519
Or Terence, but that's probably Terence.

304
00:20:50.579 --> 00:20:55.680
So, um, we will, there is actually some weird racial politics in this which we'll get to.

305
00:20:55.740 --> 00:20:57.960
But we know that the master's coming along.

306
00:20:58.019 --> 00:21:04.259
But by the time he turns up and he turns up, I think, in episode four, we've actually forgotten about him.

307
00:21:04.259 --> 00:21:06.119
And it is really funny, isn't it?

308
00:21:06.180 --> 00:21:12.000
Santa for theorises that we expect the master to be to be behind the giant lizards.

309
00:21:12.059 --> 00:21:14.940
And then we discover it's IMC.

310
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.299
And so we then kind of forget about the master.

311
00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:23.039
And so even though we've been explicitly told he's going to be in it, it's a surprise when he turns out.

312
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:29.400
And even when the adjudicator actually replies because it's so distorted, you know, unless you're really listening for it the 1st time through.

313
00:21:29.460 --> 00:21:31.559
You know, it doesn't click.

314
00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:38.039
And then there's this wonderful shop where he walks in, but I think the back is to the camera, so you don't actually see it.

315
00:21:38.099 --> 00:21:40.140
And then, you know, if he turns around and you just think.

316
00:21:40.259 --> 00:21:40.859
And you get his music.

317
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:42.059
Do you get his music here?

318
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:46.619
But he's just there and just kind of think, oh, great.

319
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:51.480
I just go, yes, you know, this is getting more and more, you know, there's layers on this.

320
00:21:51.539 --> 00:21:52.259
This is great, you know?

321
00:21:52.319 --> 00:22:00.779
I do think this leads us, though, to another slight problem in the plot, but it's hard to criticise because not every story can be the same.

322
00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:10.559
So we have this story about the colonists and the fact that the planet has been classified for both mining and for colonisation.

323
00:22:10.619 --> 00:22:15.240
The colonists, of course, are not having much work planting their crops.

324
00:22:15.299 --> 00:22:18.299
And we think, for instance, oh, well, that must be the IMC people.

325
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:24.240
You know, they're doing something, but it turns out to be the radiation from this super weapon, which is what the masters come to find.

326
00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:28.019
But that's the only crossover that we have between the 2 plots.

327
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:29.220
You know what I mean?

328
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:34.980
For instance, the colonists could have used the weapon to defend themselves, but no, it's destroyed at the end.

329
00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:38.039
It just feels like the 2 stories are a bit too disparate.

330
00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:48.539
But that being said, it does mean there's a lot of variety within the plot. a small, there's a small plot, if you like, because the stake of who gets the planet is quite small.

331
00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:52.140
We care about these characters because they're Mount Cole characters, you know?

332
00:22:52.200 --> 00:23:01.440
But you then got this bigger plot of the master has something, has found a weapon which can destroy hot stars. interestingly enough.

333
00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:04.740
He says it was tested on the crabhead nebula.

334
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:10.500
I did a little bit of research and that would mean that it was tested in Earth's history in the 11th century.

335
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:13.980
Yeah, they've seen the supernova that caused.

336
00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:15.299
It's the crab nebula, right?

337
00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:16.380
The crab nebula.

338
00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:19.259
Oh, sorry, I was I was conflating...

339
00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:22.680
But yeah, no, that happened like in in the last millennium.

340
00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:22.980
Yeah.

341
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:26.519
Look, I was just so surprised by this as I was watching it.

342
00:23:26.579 --> 00:23:30.900
Like, I mean, I came into this thinking that this would be my least favourite story of the season.

343
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.420
In fact, it's my favourite of this season.

344
00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:36.119
I just enjoyed the whole thing all the way through.

345
00:23:36.180 --> 00:23:43.380
Yeah, there's some gunfights in that confined space between IMC and the colonists, which at times you're thinking, this is ridiculous.

346
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:46.440
People should be dropping dead every 5 seconds, you know?

347
00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:49.740
They've obviously been trained by the same school as Stormtroopers.

348
00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:59.279
But, you know, besides that, you know, it's a bit slower paced because it's a 6 parter, so you see the doctor travelling on the buggy here and there and that sort of thing.

349
00:23:59.339 --> 00:24:00.599
Those buggies are amazing.

350
00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:01.740
I really like them.

351
00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:02.759
I do like want one.

352
00:24:02.819 --> 00:24:04.380
Yeah, they're great.

353
00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:07.500
And you know, then you've got the whole Joe's going to be tied to the bomb business.

354
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:10.259
You know, I love tying Joe to a bomb.

355
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:11.579
I think that is an awesome thing.

356
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:13.079
If you can possibly do that in a story.

357
00:24:13.140 --> 00:24:27.599
And I actually think that does slightly undermine the political sort of allegory, not quite an allegory, but political commentary he's doing in that, the corporate villains are so, so terribly evil that they tie Joe to a bomb.

358
00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:29.460
You know, like that's how evil they are.

359
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:33.720
Like, Katie's so wonderful just throughout, throughout the whole thing, like this.

360
00:24:33.779 --> 00:24:38.640
She has her own little subplot going on with the colonists and then she's got, you know, she's got the whole thing.

361
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:44.160
And then the only reason she gets captured is because she's been proactive and she's like, let's get the dirt on them.

362
00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:56.220
Whereas, you know, quite often, um, Liz only really got her own plot in, say, ambassadors of death because she was just minding our own business and got kidnapped, you know, or she walked into a trap.

363
00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:59.759
Whereas Joe does get to be a lot more proactive in that regard.

364
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:05.339
I mean, I do love the sequence where her and the doctor wriggle into the master's TARDIS.

365
00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:07.259
Like crawling on their on their back.

366
00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:08.099
On their backs it.

367
00:25:08.099 --> 00:25:12.420
It's another thing where I think Terrence Dix has gone, Okay, you know, this is my little joke for the week.

368
00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:14.700
Let's see John and Katie do this this week, you know?

369
00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:18.000
So I have a race problem again.

370
00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:19.799
Okay, explain.

371
00:25:19.859 --> 00:25:21.539
So it's with the premises, right?

372
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:26.640
I think it's for a story that is so clearly left wing, clearly anti-capitalist.

373
00:25:26.700 --> 00:25:29.400
I think the primitives are a blind spot.

374
00:25:29.460 --> 00:25:34.019
Their call primitives, you know, in the 1st place, which is slightly problematic.

375
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:42.900
And we never really once seem concerned that the colonists are occupying someone else's planet.

376
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:50.759
And so the colonists are seen as the rightful owners of this planet, not the miners.

377
00:25:50.819 --> 00:25:53.400
It's the colonists who properly belong here.

378
00:25:53.579 --> 00:25:56.940
So it's this sort of like, you know, British imperialism?

379
00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:02.099
Yeah, and it just seems it, like, and I don't think he properly sort of justifies it.

380
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:04.559
I think the story, it's just a blind spot in the story.

381
00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:15.119
And there's scenes where the handyman guy, the electrical guy who gets killed by Norton, where he's with his primitive helper.

382
00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:18.599
Yeah, and the primitive is basically his servant, like his hand against things.

383
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:29.460
And, you know, like I, they do try and make it as if it's kind of the primitive people's fault because they develop this weapon and their culture degenerated and stuff like that.

384
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:36.599
But I still, it's just, it's an unfortunate note in what I think is a pretty, is a pretty good story.

385
00:26:36.660 --> 00:26:38.640
And I don't think it's helped by how the primitives look.

386
00:26:38.700 --> 00:26:40.319
And like, are they naked?

387
00:26:40.380 --> 00:26:41.519
Is that meant to be their skin?

388
00:26:41.579 --> 00:26:45.059
Because it has lots of, like, wrinkles in it.

389
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:47.160
They're wearing long cloths.

390
00:26:47.220 --> 00:26:49.680
So I think that's meant to be their skin and it just looks terrible.

391
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:51.660
And they've got these sort of lumpy heads.

392
00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:53.220
The masks, you know?

393
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:54.900
Oh, yeah, and they are bad.

394
00:26:54.960 --> 00:27:01.140
And then you've got like their masks, then you've got the next step up masks, those big plan heads or whatever.

395
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:04.680
And then you've got that little creep.

396
00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:08.220
It doesn't seem to work properly and his mouth doesn't work.

397
00:27:08.220 --> 00:27:10.319
And it jumps to a lot of conclusions very quickly.

398
00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:11.339
This will happen now.

399
00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:12.480
You will need or die.

400
00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:14.519
It's very... knows what it's want.

401
00:27:14.579 --> 00:27:15.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

402
00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:17.099
He's a Muppet with a mind of its own.

403
00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:21.000
No, it really doesn't because so it says you will be put to death because you came to our city.

404
00:27:21.059 --> 00:27:23.400
Well, we didn't know coming to us if you would maybe get put to death.

405
00:27:23.460 --> 00:27:24.539
That is not an excuse.

406
00:27:24.599 --> 00:27:30.900
Oh, and pretty much the doctor says, oh, well, I thought you were a civilised man, but if you're not fine, you can go free.

407
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:32.220
Yeah, yeah.

408
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:34.920
Okay, so... does change its mind.

409
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:37.859
It does, but it changes its mind so capriciously.

410
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:41.759
Pretty much the doctor does the reverse of if you think you're so strong.

411
00:27:41.819 --> 00:27:45.059
No, I don't think you could move this boulder that's trapping me.

412
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:51.359
Yeah, it's that sort of old biblical Aesop's fable kind of kind of logic.

413
00:27:51.420 --> 00:28:03.240
I like the idea of the 3 tiered alien society because so often when we see aliens in Doctor Who, there doesn't seem to be any social structure to speak of.

414
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:06.539
What if they kind of had about the, um, sensorized?

415
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:10.380
Yes, I'm sorry. trying to get that out before you said it.

416
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:11.160
I looked at you.

417
00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:12.240
You knew exactly what.

418
00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:21.779
That is an example of how Doctor Who has denuded social structures in alien cultures before by very simple signifiers.

419
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:24.299
It's sort of been a sash, a sash.

420
00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:30.960
It's sort of been expanded upon with slur and his ice warriors who look very different.

421
00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:33.299
But this is the 1st time we get it.

422
00:28:33.299 --> 00:28:37.920
And it's not only denuding by clothing or social order.

423
00:28:38.039 --> 00:28:44.460
It's also denuding by we are the same species, but we are different permutations of that species.

424
00:28:44.519 --> 00:28:51.599
It's not explored that much, but I actually think that's a good thing because it's just sort of presented and not demystified.

425
00:28:51.660 --> 00:28:55.200
It raises some questions and even though those questions aren't answered.

426
00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:57.480
How did this splitting off happen?

427
00:28:57.539 --> 00:29:02.039
Yeah, it's vaguely referred to by the doctor and the master, but just a supposition.

428
00:29:02.099 --> 00:29:06.059
They're sort of looking at the mosaic and going, well, it could mean this and it could mean that and da da da.

429
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:07.799
It's nice.

430
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:19.019
Both of them there together, sort of, you know, working this out, you're talking about things and they have a great relationship because despite everything else, they respect one another's intellect.

431
00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:21.119
I think they're a little bit in love.

432
00:29:21.180 --> 00:29:24.119
Marry me and together, we can rule the universe.

433
00:29:24.180 --> 00:29:25.079
Yeah, yeah.

434
00:29:25.140 --> 00:29:25.859
Do you know what I mean?

435
00:29:25.859 --> 00:29:28.980
They do work terrifically well together.

436
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:35.819
And I've said so far this season that the master's much nicer and seems to be much better company than perch, where he's much less obnoxious.

437
00:29:35.880 --> 00:29:40.559
It kills people from time to time, but who doesn't have a bad day, you know, so often.

438
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:45.539
But the 2 of them work terrifically well together and there is a mutual respect.

439
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:47.160
I think all of that.

440
00:29:47.220 --> 00:29:54.720
I think it actually brings out some of the best in John Po twin, just his whole presence and that sort of thing.

441
00:29:54.779 --> 00:29:57.960
There's just something when he's in those scenes with Roger. that I really like.

442
00:29:58.019 --> 00:30:08.700
Is there a thematic parallel between that scene and the story which you said was too far separate from it, the story of the colonists and the, and the minors.

443
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:13.440
So the doctor wants to see the universe and the master wants to own it.

444
00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:14.519
Do you know what I mean?

445
00:30:14.579 --> 00:30:16.380
And so, um, That's a good point.

446
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:22.380
Like, you know, IMC, these people, the reason that they've become colonists is they want to go outside.

447
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:23.220
Do you know what I mean?

448
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:24.359
They want to grow things.

449
00:30:24.420 --> 00:30:31.380
They want to experience life in a way that's denied to them by their overcrowded, polluted world.

450
00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:37.259
And there's IMC that just profits from their being an overcrowded world.

451
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:45.720
The whole, the whole point of mining the planet is to create more houses for, you know, the increasingly and unsustainably overpopulated earth.

452
00:30:45.779 --> 00:30:48.839
Maybe there is a little parallel there.

453
00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:53.099
And certainly pertly helping the colonists is really lovely.

454
00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:54.900
I mean it really is so good.

455
00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:56.460
And he just sort of jumps in.

456
00:30:56.519 --> 00:31:00.359
He's like, you know, he's really missed helping people out in space.

457
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:03.420
It could have been called helping in space.

458
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:04.259
Helping in there.

459
00:31:04.259 --> 00:31:07.680
He uses a sonic screwdriver in this story, doesn't he?

460
00:31:07.740 --> 00:31:13.019
In episode five. something to do with them getting into the Master's Titus, is it?

461
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:24.299
Um, I think it's, I think it's to do with like the master's filing cabinets and whatnot because he's still got the key to the master's TARDIS that he stole in terror of the autops. other little..

462
00:31:25.140 --> 00:31:36.539
But this is the 1st appearance of the Sonic Screwdriver, as we mostly know it in the classic series, the little silver tube in this case with the yellow swirl alongside and the conical head inside the circle.

463
00:31:36.539 --> 00:31:40.380
Previous to this, it's just been a pen torch, you know, under Patrick.

464
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:43.380
So, yeah, we didn't have this one screwed over at all in series 7.

465
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:44.519
We had the door handle.

466
00:31:44.579 --> 00:31:46.140
It does get mentioned.

467
00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:49.799
The Sonic screwdriver. in Solurians.

468
00:31:49.859 --> 00:31:50.880
Yes, yeah.

469
00:31:50.940 --> 00:31:53.160
He says, oh, I forgot.

470
00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:56.400
Yeah, so it does get mentioned, but it doesn't appear at that point.

471
00:31:56.460 --> 00:32:02.759
Bernard Kay, who died quite recently and he played Saladin and he played.

472
00:32:02.819 --> 00:32:03.960
Who else did he play?

473
00:32:04.019 --> 00:32:08.160
Oh, Inspector, slightly Scottish guy from the face faceless ones.

474
00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:08.759
Yeah.

475
00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:12.420
And of course, um, Tyler in Darlic Invasion of Earth?

476
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:12.900
Of course.

477
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:14.640
And he plays Cordwell.

478
00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:15.119
Caldwell.

479
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:17.220
And Caldwell is the moral centre of this story.

480
00:32:17.339 --> 00:32:18.660
I guess we alluded to it before.

481
00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:20.339
He's the only miner with a moustache.

482
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:22.559
Because he's the engineer, isn't he?

483
00:32:22.619 --> 00:32:24.180
Yeah, so he's a mining engineer.

484
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:28.319
He has to do what IMC says because IMC owns the world.

485
00:32:28.380 --> 00:32:33.420
Dent also tells him that he knows how in debt he is.

486
00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:35.039
He's up to his he is in debt.

487
00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:39.000
And so he kind of has to do what Dent says.

488
00:32:39.059 --> 00:32:42.420
But Dent is really pretty openly murdering a whole bunch of people.

489
00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:45.059
He's so terrific, by the way.

490
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:47.220
Just a quick parathetic. he's great.

491
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:52.380
Great voice, just underplays it to the point of fabulous camposity.

492
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:54.299
You know, he really is terribly good.

493
00:32:54.359 --> 00:33:06.480
And so Caldwell sort of goes along with this, but then eventually, you know, like he helps Winton to escape from being gunned down by the guards and then eventually just jump ship.

494
00:33:06.539 --> 00:33:08.819
And so the story is...

495
00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:10.440
Yeah, it's a story of his redemption.

496
00:33:10.500 --> 00:33:13.140
He's kind of at the moral centre of it. makes the right choice.

497
00:33:13.259 --> 00:33:21.779
Yeah, I think it's really interesting that on the other side of that, you have Winton, who starts off, yeah, all Winton wants to do is punch people in the face.

498
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:22.619
Yes.

499
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:26.940
And again, and he does sort of save everyone at the end by punching Terry Walsh in the face a lot.

500
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:31.079
It's a really, it's Terry Walsh with a rare sort of...

501
00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:33.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. like front and sanitarium, well, take it out.

502
00:33:34.019 --> 00:33:41.640
But Winton also comes around to be more thoughtful because, of course, by the end of the story, he's the leader of the colony, so he has to be a more thoughtful character.

503
00:33:41.700 --> 00:33:45.660
Also, a little mentioned for the actor Nicholas Fennel.

504
00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:52.920
In rod score for their story, which was 6 out of 10. 5 of those points, Arthur Nicholas Fennel's bottom.

505
00:33:52.980 --> 00:33:55.319
And if you want to go back and watch the three.

506
00:33:55.380 --> 00:33:56.400
It's quite a nice bottom.

507
00:33:56.519 --> 00:33:57.779
He's also played very well.

508
00:33:57.779 --> 00:34:10.139
And even he is such a strong and proactive part of the plot because it's him saying, we need to go into INT and take their weapons and then he finds the evidence, but stops up and the evidence is destroyed and what have you.

509
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:20.280
It does lead to a bit of a loop story here, which is, of course, a favourite of Malcolm Thorke and Terroristics in that face steal the INC's weapons and have a shootout.

510
00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:25.980
And then INC weapon takes weapons back one episode later and has a shootout.

511
00:34:25.980 --> 00:34:32.400
And I think in both instances, at least a cliffhanger, just like the 1st 2 cliffhaggers of the story are the same.

512
00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:34.199
It's the doctor being menaced by the robot.

513
00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:36.179
He gets to gurn again, you know?

514
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:38.159
Yeah, another girl. added to the list.

515
00:34:38.219 --> 00:34:44.099
Interesting story that shows how much John Pertwee sort of put consideration into his character.

516
00:34:44.099 --> 00:34:53.400
There are photos from the story, which are quite famous, which is John Pertwee sort of lying on that broken table with the robot above him. photographer was giving him directional. can you look like this?

517
00:34:53.460 --> 00:34:54.000
Can you look like that?

518
00:34:54.059 --> 00:34:57.539
And John Kirby was asked, can you look terrified?

519
00:34:57.599 --> 00:34:58.019
said, no.

520
00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:02.760
The Doctor Who cannot look terrified because of Doctor Who looks terrified, it's too scary for children.

521
00:35:02.820 --> 00:35:04.800
The doctor has to look confident.

522
00:35:04.860 --> 00:35:06.480
I can look worried, I can look scared.

523
00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:09.719
I won't look terrified because Doctor Who should never be terrified.

524
00:35:09.780 --> 00:35:19.920
And yeah, it's kind of like, don't necessarily agree, I think, if the doctor looks terrified that shows how bad things are, but certainly it shouldn't be terrified by that robot.

525
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:23.639
In fact, it is part of the problem with Perjury's character, isn't it?

526
00:35:23.699 --> 00:35:26.280
And we've said it before, he just never really seems like he's in danger.

527
00:35:26.340 --> 00:35:30.179
And, you know, where he was terrified in Inferno, that was really effective.

528
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:35.099
But he just kind of strides through the thing without being particularly affected by it.

529
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:39.059
And, you know, as I've said before, when he retires from acting quite soon.

530
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:43.139
Um, that will make him, that will make him even more difficult to us.

531
00:35:43.260 --> 00:35:44.280
I think you are cool.

532
00:35:44.340 --> 00:35:49.800
I think he's actually had quite a lot of stuff in this season that's forcing to be arrogant.

533
00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:51.239
He's had comedy moments.

534
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:53.639
He's had to be sympathetic.

535
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:55.139
He's had a whole range of things.

536
00:35:55.559 --> 00:36:01.980
There's another comedy ending to this story where they come back in the brigadier moves out of the way of the time.

537
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:14.940
Last episode we had a last story, we had a comedy ending, I think, with his TARDIS not being able to get away, and so he's stuck there on earth in terribly autons, you know, he turns, turns around, I'm stuck here on the earth with you, Brigadier, and it's ho, ho, ho.

538
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:18.719
Terrence loves his little comedy endings at the end of each of the stories.

539
00:36:18.780 --> 00:36:26.820
I will talk about this more next story, but in this one it really cements that Doctor Who is becoming about, in a way, the evolution of Joe Grant.

540
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:33.840
Because, you know, Joe starts off literally bumbling in and wrecking experiments, in terror of the autopsy, in just a few short stories.

541
00:36:33.900 --> 00:36:39.420
She's proven herself capable of joining in with a revolution and going from, I don't want to go outside.

542
00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:41.280
I've got complete cock to shock.

543
00:36:41.340 --> 00:36:43.139
I'm terrified to when she comes back.

544
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:46.380
The doctor puts his arm around her and says, oh, don't tell him.

545
00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:47.280
He'll never believe you.

546
00:36:47.340 --> 00:36:56.219
And it's like, suddenly again, we've got that special heart of Doctor Who, which is, this is a special thing and it takes a special person to understand or do.

547
00:36:56.280 --> 00:37:05.280
It takes a special person to be this adventurous, and it's sort of saying to fans, that means you're a special person too, to me, that, you know, that means you're a special person to Doctor Who.

548
00:37:05.340 --> 00:37:06.719
And it's been building to this moment.

549
00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:07.619
Yeah, absolutely.

550
00:37:07.739 --> 00:37:10.079
And it will continue in the next story as well.

551
00:37:10.139 --> 00:37:13.559
Before we go on, can I talk about the novelisation?

552
00:37:13.619 --> 00:37:26.880
Can you talk about the plot where suddenly everything ends because they've got that self-destruct button switched then that just happens to be sitting there for this weapon that's been sitting there the whole time and then we just get to push it.

553
00:37:26.940 --> 00:37:28.260
Yeah, it is a bit crummy.

554
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:32.340
But the thing is, when you think about it, the primitives are very stupid.

555
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:33.599
So they wouldn't know how to use it.

556
00:37:33.659 --> 00:37:36.420
The priests are blind, so they wouldn't know how to use it.

557
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:38.760
And poor little, you know, squidgy puppet man.

558
00:37:38.820 --> 00:37:40.500
His arms are too short, so he can't use it.

559
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:42.780
They have to have someone else to do. brilliant.

560
00:37:42.900 --> 00:37:43.440
Okay.

561
00:37:43.500 --> 00:37:45.239
Okay, no, that makes that makes sense.

562
00:37:45.300 --> 00:37:50.219
So the normalisation solves a lot of the problems that the production has.

563
00:37:50.880 --> 00:38:01.739
So the primitives look less stupid in the novel, like they're 6 fingered and they just have sort of curly hair and they kind of read like, you know, like native populations.

564
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:05.400
I think they've got green hair or blue hair or something.

565
00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:07.079
They look a bit more like the swampies.

566
00:38:07.139 --> 00:38:09.119
Yeah, so they look a bit better.

567
00:38:09.179 --> 00:38:12.300
The priests have otter heads, you know, they look like otters.

568
00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:15.780
So rather than looking like clan heads, do you know what I mean?

569
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:16.800
Don't actually say that.

570
00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:17.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

571
00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:25.860
And the puppet, the stupid puppet, is a glowing child size figure, you know, that appears in flames.

572
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:29.699
Oh, which is what Matt, Matt Hawk originally wanted in the script.

573
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:30.780
And Terry said, we come.

574
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:32.760
We achieve that bad.

575
00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:33.420
What are you talking about?

576
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:34.559
puppet instead.

577
00:38:34.619 --> 00:38:43.079
But more than that, and it's what Hulk does all the time in his novelisations is it gives just stacks and stacks of interesting backstory.

578
00:38:43.260 --> 00:38:47.579
The Leasons who are the 1st couple to be killed by giant lizards.

579
00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:56.760
Yeah, they have that one line in the story about on earth we didn't even have a room and now we have our own room and we have land and that's expanded into it, I think, almost a whole chat.

580
00:38:56.820 --> 00:38:58.619
We find out how they 1st met.

581
00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:00.900
We learn all about what conditions are like on Earth.

582
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:03.960
You know, it's really, really, really good.

583
00:39:04.019 --> 00:39:07.139
And he changes the beginning of the story too.

584
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:08.159
Do you remember this?

585
00:39:08.219 --> 00:39:13.980
Joe arrives and joins unit and is bored for ages and ages.

586
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:15.780
The other 3 stories don't happen.

587
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:17.820
And this is the 1st time.

588
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:19.800
Because this was the 1st one that was written and published.

589
00:39:19.980 --> 00:39:24.179
Yeah, Mac was told, okay, we need the introduction for Joe in the same way.

590
00:39:24.179 --> 00:39:26.340
Dr. Had an exciting adventure in the dark.

591
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:28.559
So does he give her any parents?

592
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:31.139
No, no, I don't think so.

593
00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:34.019
I don't remember her parents, but oh, that's not true.

594
00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:38.159
There are stories of her as a little girl and she wanted to be a secret agent or something.

595
00:39:38.219 --> 00:39:38.940
Yes, yes.

596
00:39:38.940 --> 00:39:40.380
But it's so good.

597
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:44.699
It really is so good and you get, you get a chapter from dense point of view.

598
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:53.760
We learn that the company sort of pimps, you know, like picks you a wife and you come home and there's a wife there for you and, you know, that's...

599
00:39:53.820 --> 00:39:56.219
And he's like, you know, we hit along very well.

600
00:39:56.280 --> 00:39:59.579
There's no romance, but she's a nice woman and understands what a career is.

601
00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:03.000
Yeah, it's really, it's, it's really terrific.

602
00:40:03.059 --> 00:40:12.059
And and the best bit, do you remember Ash, Ash has a book, and it's the story about someone called God, who he's never heard of.

603
00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:19.920
And the 2nd half of the book has 4 stories about a man who gives up his life to save other people.

604
00:40:19.980 --> 00:40:26.099
And so clearly religion and the Bible and things don't exist in this sort of future 500 years from now.

605
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:33.300
But it's that book that prompts Ash to sacrifice himself in order to save the colony.

606
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:39.900
And it's, it's so, so well done and so much more interesting, uh, than what we get on screen.

607
00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:41.880
And like I'm a huge fan of this story.

608
00:40:41.940 --> 00:40:43.500
But I love the novelisation.

609
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:46.380
So did that enhance your enjoyment of this story?

610
00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:48.179
Yeah, yeah, because you've got that backstory.

611
00:40:48.239 --> 00:40:50.219
I mean, there's enough in the actual story on screen.

612
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:56.159
You do get enough of an impression from the dialogue of what the world was like, but it's kind of nice to be able to see it in the novel.

613
00:40:56.219 --> 00:41:01.739
And the way I recently read it was some Jeffrey Beaver's audio reading on it, which is wonderful.

614
00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:14.340
I especially like both the moment in the doll and the way that Jeffrey Beavers reads it in the TV version, when the Leasons are killed, incidentally, Mrs. Leason, Sheila Grant, the infamous voice of the Quox.

615
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:18.000
But...

616
00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:29.639
But when that happens in the TV version, the sort of winter comes back in and says to Ash, and you know, I buried the bodies up on their land and that's the only thing we hear about it.

617
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:32.340
In the book, there is a beautiful service.

618
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:39.420
So if everyone's doing it on automatic pilot because, of course, in this highly compartmentalised world they've come from, they've never had to bury anyone.

619
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:41.820
You know, and they don't know what to do.

620
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:48.659
And so the doctor is just very gently saying to Ash, okay, what you need to do is you need to dig a hole in the ground.

621
00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:52.260
Maybe, maybe their land and put them in there and fill them in with that.

622
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:56.880
And once that's done, you just talk about them. describe what they were like to know.

623
00:41:56.940 --> 00:41:59.820
And it's, it's this lovely moment.

624
00:41:59.820 --> 00:42:03.599
And the way that Jeffrey Bieber's read it because he's got such a beautiful voice just enhances it.

625
00:42:03.659 --> 00:42:10.619
And I think that is even tied in later with the fact that Ash has this book about goad.

626
00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:12.480
And Jesus.

627
00:42:12.539 --> 00:42:15.179
It is that is beautiful, that scene.

628
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:16.679
And the doctor just underplays it.

629
00:42:16.739 --> 00:42:17.940
He tells Ash.

630
00:42:17.940 --> 00:42:29.460
And, you know, they have a wake afterwards and they all meet and they have tea and they laugh and they're enjoying themselves. doctor pretty much says now you have a party. and in the book, that's when Ash finally turns around and says, what?

631
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:31.199
It's so good.

632
00:42:31.260 --> 00:42:36.659
It's kind of undermined, I think, in the thing because, you know, a bunch of people have been killed already, in fact, discovered.

633
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:40.800
But that funeral scene is breathtakingly good.

634
00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:47.519
Look, I'm just very impressed with this entire story and I've just, I really enjoyed it.

635
00:42:47.579 --> 00:42:53.159
And it is, and as I've just said, he's my favourite of the season and I was really surprised that this would be the one that would be.

636
00:42:53.219 --> 00:42:54.960
Yeah, I had exactly the same experience.

637
00:42:55.019 --> 00:42:56.880
I didn't think this would be my favourite story.

638
00:42:56.940 --> 00:43:00.900
Cornell Day and Hopping describe it as like watching socially aware paints dry.

639
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:05.340
But if you watch it as 6 episodes in one hit. going to have that call?

640
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:07.679
I mean, I think terror of the autons maybe.

641
00:43:08.219 --> 00:43:11.820
Maybe that's my favourite, but certainly this is vying for top place.

642
00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:14.579
It's still my least favourite story of the season.

643
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:17.400
But I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would.

644
00:43:17.460 --> 00:43:19.619
It's due to good performances.

645
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:22.199
I can't really fault the performance of anyone.

646
00:43:22.260 --> 00:43:26.280
I don't think Tony Korn was that great, but at the same time, he doesn't have a huge part, so that's fine.

647
00:43:26.340 --> 00:43:29.820
But I think it's pretty much down to Matt Hawk's script.

648
00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:30.599
Yeah.

649
00:43:30.659 --> 00:43:34.139
Yeah, Mac Hook cannot write a bad script, in my opinion.

650
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:35.159
Ooh.

651
00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:36.960
Well, playing with that.

652
00:43:37.019 --> 00:43:38.219
We'll see about that.

653
00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:43.679
But we're going on to a script writer who may be mad or myth in the demons.

654
00:43:55.739 --> 00:43:58.320
So, um, Nathan, this is yours, Teresa.

655
00:43:58.380 --> 00:44:01.320
I'm just going to go up on, uh, up on Devil's Hump.

656
00:44:01.380 --> 00:44:02.579
Like you do.

657
00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:03.480
Like you do.

658
00:44:03.539 --> 00:44:05.219
So, this is John Pertee's favourite story.

659
00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:05.940
Yes.

660
00:44:06.059 --> 00:44:08.280
Yeah, and it's a story that the production team really liked.

661
00:44:08.340 --> 00:44:12.119
It's written by Barry Letts and Robert Sloman, and I think they do...

662
00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:15.599
Do they do the season finale, like every year for the next four years?

663
00:44:15.659 --> 00:44:17.099
Yeah, I do indeed.

664
00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:25.500
I think the next two, though, are Time Monster and Green Death are just credited to Robert Sloan, and I think he wrote them and Barry Ree Wrote them, whereas this one they did.

665
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:27.780
Put it out under the name Guy Leopold.

666
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:31.920
Yeah, which I think is like a middle name and a child's name or something like that.

667
00:44:31.980 --> 00:44:35.159
And it's directed by Lets or am I mad?

668
00:44:35.219 --> 00:44:36.719
No, it's directed by Christopher Barry.

669
00:44:36.780 --> 00:44:37.440
Oh, okay.

670
00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:37.860
All right.

671
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:39.840
He will go on to direct, though, won't he?

672
00:44:39.900 --> 00:44:41.280
Let's direct...

673
00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:42.239
Terror of the Autrons.

674
00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:46.860
Yeah, he directed the Autons this year, and next year, he will direct the time.

675
00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:49.019
Yeah, he does start directing the finales, doesn't he?

676
00:44:49.139 --> 00:44:50.820
He'd explain that to the spiders and stuff.

677
00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:52.860
So this is going to be an annual kind of event.

678
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:54.480
It's going to be the big lets moment.

679
00:44:54.539 --> 00:44:57.599
It's his story and Robert Sloman working together.

680
00:44:57.659 --> 00:45:04.920
So you can see that it's very much what Lets wants to do with the program and that's kind of been the story of this year, you know.

681
00:45:04.980 --> 00:45:12.000
He only got He only got to really plan half a season last time, this time he's got the proper season.

682
00:45:12.059 --> 00:45:22.800
But I have to say that I think that the reason that this is per to his favourite story is that everyone had such a lovely time, you know, on location for 2 weeks.

683
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:25.079
Kurt, we got a ride around on a motorbike.

684
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:30.900
Yeah, you know, they just seem to really terrifically enjoy, you know, hanging out of that village and all of that sort of thing.

685
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:34.800
But what really ends up on screen is actually not that great.

686
00:45:34.860 --> 00:45:48.900
And it does have fun moments, and it does introduce a pretty significant new element to the show, but it's a giant mess plot wise, and it makes many, many puzzling creative choices, I think.

687
00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:51.239
So let's start positive.

688
00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:52.079
Okay.

689
00:45:52.079 --> 00:46:01.019
It starts with, you know, that fun sequence with the doctor patronising Joe and being terribly obnoxious to her, which is always fun.

690
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:05.400
And she's talking about the age of Aquarius and stuff like that.

691
00:46:05.460 --> 00:46:09.599
And so the Age of Aquarius is obviously just a reference to the musical hair.

692
00:46:09.659 --> 00:46:10.380
Yes.

693
00:46:10.380 --> 00:46:10.860
Yeah.

694
00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:13.139
You know, because she says the dawning of the age of Aquarius.

695
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:14.639
I mean that's the, but it really is.

696
00:46:14.699 --> 00:46:16.980
Yeah, I think she's talking about hair and how it's actually happening.

697
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:17.760
Yeah, yes.

698
00:46:17.820 --> 00:46:19.079
So and it's about magic.

699
00:46:19.139 --> 00:46:31.559
There hadn't been magic in Doctor Who before, and the doctor is staunchly opposed to magic and, you know, tells Joe that she should be a scientist and all of that sort of thing and then does the magic thing with the car and stuff.

700
00:46:32.699 --> 00:46:33.900
That's very true.

701
00:46:33.960 --> 00:46:37.920
And the doctor's identified as a scientist, sort of quite a lot.

702
00:46:37.980 --> 00:46:40.920
And then they're even sort of wearing a lab coat, isn't it?

703
00:46:40.980 --> 00:46:42.960
It's science versus magic.

704
00:46:43.019 --> 00:46:48.539
Then, of course, they're watching the dig on television, which is terrific.

705
00:46:48.599 --> 00:46:50.639
I love BBC 3 everything.

706
00:46:50.699 --> 00:46:51.719
Oh, 1970s.

707
00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:53.400
They're great. so funny.

708
00:46:53.460 --> 00:47:02.579
It is, and this is a kind of lazy exposition thing that they've done before where they've had, you know, like a reporter short into camera like they did in Ambassadors of Dare.

709
00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:04.619
It's a big favourite of Malcolm Hook.

710
00:47:05.099 --> 00:47:12.599
If you look at each of his stories for pert week, he uses television or some kind of televised thing to summarise what's happened.

711
00:47:12.659 --> 00:47:13.679
He does it in solar ends.

712
00:47:13.739 --> 00:47:15.059
He did it in colony and he'll do it again.

713
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:22.139
Yeah, so Colony in Space, the doctor was in that room watching the, you know, what earth looks like these days on television.

714
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:25.559
It's like the reminder room in the invasion of the dark.

715
00:47:25.619 --> 00:47:30.960
Yes, the Solurians look at the development of Apes, the finishing with Major Baker, yeah.

716
00:47:31.019 --> 00:47:31.500
Yeah.

717
00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:37.019
So, but the reporter talking to camera for exposition, you know, that's ambassadors of death.

718
00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:39.840
And that is kind of lazy here, but they do kind of manage to make it fun.

719
00:47:39.900 --> 00:47:45.599
But the surprising thing is that crazy old Olive Hawthorne, bless her.

720
00:47:45.659 --> 00:47:46.380
Don't we love her?

721
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:47.340
She's great.

722
00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:48.480
She is awesome.

723
00:47:48.539 --> 00:47:50.219
Damaris Damon.

724
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:54.119
And so she's clearly mad and going on about the devil and all of that sort of thing.

725
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:57.179
And the doctor immediately goes, that woman's completely right.

726
00:47:57.239 --> 00:47:58.619
We must go down and stop.

727
00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:05.280
And so we've had all this anti-magic thing, but suddenly the doctor suddenly believes in magic all of a sudden and is off to stop it.

728
00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:07.559
And so for a long time in those 1st 2 episodes.

729
00:48:07.619 --> 00:48:10.139
You don't quite know why the doctor's behaving in this way.

730
00:48:10.199 --> 00:48:13.260
And it does take a while for the other shoe to drop, I think.

731
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:14.280
Yeah.

732
00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:25.920
And I think it's quite interesting as the 1st episode because Every other episode this season, by the end of the 1st episode, the doctor is well and truly entrenched in the plot.

733
00:48:25.980 --> 00:48:33.840
If we look back at episode one cliffhangers, terribly autumns, he's about to get blown up by a bomb, the mind of evil, he's in the room when the killer machine activates.

734
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:43.079
Claws of Axos, he's inside the Axe on spaceship and Joe's being menaced, Colony in space, he's being attacked by the robot.

735
00:48:43.139 --> 00:48:46.800
But in this, he is directly threatened in the Cliffhanger.

736
00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:53.820
You know, roof comes down on him, but he's only arrived on the scene about 2 minutes before that, and the rest of the plot has happened without him there.

737
00:48:53.880 --> 00:49:00.900
And we haven't seen that kind of plot development without the doctor since the days of, you know, William on Patrick Trouton going off on a holiday.

738
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:03.599
But I think to have that once in a while is okay.

739
00:49:03.659 --> 00:49:04.739
The world's being built up.

740
00:49:04.739 --> 00:49:09.300
And part of the tension is the doctor can't get there in time to stop it.

741
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:20.699
And one of the reasons, can I say, that he can't get there in time to stop it, is he goes into the palm, asks for directions to the dig, is instantly obnoxious and appalling to everyone.

742
00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:21.960
And so no one wants to tell him.

743
00:49:22.019 --> 00:49:22.679
Yes.

744
00:49:22.739 --> 00:49:26.699
And in that local park, like, they talk about, Oh, we love the costume and the wig.

745
00:49:27.780 --> 00:49:29.340
You know, it's very funny, you know.

746
00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:31.860
Terence Dix is having a dig or 2 at this.

747
00:49:31.980 --> 00:49:33.659
How nice to see you, Miss Arthur.

748
00:49:33.719 --> 00:49:37.500
But then of course, then you've got Joe in there and that sort of thing.

749
00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:46.679
And I do think that that is an indication of, perhaps, Barry, that's the way he writes the doctor and doesn't let the doctor evolve when he gets his hand on and things like this.

750
00:49:46.739 --> 00:49:49.619
We'll see it again in a year's time in the time monster.

751
00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:51.179
He's going to be obnoxious.

752
00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:55.559
As opposed to the rest of the season where I think he's less so, but that's another story.

753
00:49:55.619 --> 00:49:56.159
Right.

754
00:49:56.219 --> 00:50:04.139
We also see it at the moment with Peter Capaldi, and it was even explicitly pointed out in into the Dalek.

755
00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:05.820
She's my carer.

756
00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:07.199
She cares, so I don't have to.

757
00:50:07.260 --> 00:50:10.260
And whilst, you know, I think that's very good characterisation.

758
00:50:10.320 --> 00:50:14.880
I always felt that line was really clunky because I'm like, oh, John Poe and Katie Manning just did it with acting.

759
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:20.219
That whole 1st episode is about getting there and I think it's quite hilarious.

760
00:50:20.280 --> 00:50:22.380
You know, they have to use maps.

761
00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:26.880
There's no sat, NAV, there's no little, the science spin around and that sort of thing.

762
00:50:26.940 --> 00:50:31.980
When they're running through the field, they abandon the car and because a branch falls on that thing.

763
00:50:32.039 --> 00:50:34.380
Stop that dick. not that dick.

764
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:37.139
And in the background, Katie just goes, whoa.

765
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:38.099
It falls over.

766
00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:39.059
It's hilarious.

767
00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:39.900
Pizza stop up.

768
00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:40.559
Keeps on going.

769
00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:45.239
I used to say, our old friend Peter McTire used to say that she tripped over a sleeping cow.

770
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:47.460
Sleeping cow.

771
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:50.219
Yeah, yeah, that's what that was. was appalled.

772
00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:53.820
Can I just say there's one thing I don't like about this story?

773
00:50:53.820 --> 00:50:58.739
And it's when Miss Hawthorne meets Mr. Magister, and it's the most.

774
00:50:58.860 --> 00:51:03.360
I audibly groaned when I was watching this.

775
00:51:03.420 --> 00:51:15.179
I had no problem with the master being in any other story this year and I know, you know, the whole story about, you know, Terrence Dixon Baronets say they overdid the master during this season and up to this point.

776
00:51:15.300 --> 00:51:16.679
I didn't agree with that.

777
00:51:16.739 --> 00:51:19.920
But I just went, oh, no, not him again.

778
00:51:19.980 --> 00:51:23.099
Like, I mean, Roger's fine, you know, he's great.

779
00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:25.739
But it's sort of like, I already know the outcome.

780
00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:26.880
You're not going to win.

781
00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:28.920
He's really incompetent.

782
00:51:28.980 --> 00:51:30.179
Shockingly bad.

783
00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:39.840
And in this story too, he actually begins to get more and more agitated with people who do not fall underneath his spell, like, I think the squire gets it from him.

784
00:51:39.900 --> 00:51:43.860
Like, you know, normally he's quite controlled, you know, he can deal with these primitive apes.

785
00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:46.739
But in this story, he's beginning to lose his patience.

786
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:48.719
I think he's just been on earth for far too long.

787
00:51:48.780 --> 00:51:53.280
Something that is great about the story, though, are those minor characters.

788
00:51:53.340 --> 00:51:58.440
So the BBC 3 presenter, Alistair Ferguson, Alistair Ferguson.

789
00:51:59.159 --> 00:51:59.880
Fergie, yeah.

790
00:51:59.940 --> 00:52:01.980
I think someone actually calls him Fergie at one point.

791
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:04.440
Like, he's he's got his slightly camp.

792
00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:06.059
He's producer?

793
00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:07.139
It's like the camp producer.

794
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:08.519
This is to Professor Horner.

795
00:52:08.579 --> 00:52:17.159
If you could do, if you could break through the wall just on the street for me, that will be absolutely, well, I'll try my best to be absolutely super mad.

796
00:52:17.280 --> 00:52:19.139
I like him where he goes.

797
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:20.099
Quiet everybody.

798
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:21.360
Lots of lovely hush.

799
00:52:21.420 --> 00:52:23.760
Yeah.

800
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:36.900
But it's nice like the way that both with that happening and then you've got Mike and Benson back in base, you know, going to football, needing to turn over the brigs off, doing whatever.

801
00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:43.980
In fact, I was quite surprised how much the brigadier is actually sidelined in this story up until the last episode.

802
00:52:44.039 --> 00:52:47.579
He doesn't really get him, like, you know, he's on the outer, plot-wise or whatever.

803
00:52:47.579 --> 00:52:57.599
And a lot of the action stuff is left to Mike Yates and Sergeant Benton, you know, in the chopper and then hideous jacket that might be out.

804
00:52:58.019 --> 00:52:58.980
What the hell is that?

805
00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:07.260
Look, I actually think that this is where the story's problems come in and they are things like sidelining the brigadier for a long time.

806
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:08.460
Joe gets very little to do.

807
00:53:08.519 --> 00:53:11.219
Both Joe and the doctor spend a week in bed.

808
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:13.019
Yes, you know, 2 hearts.

809
00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:13.800
They get back to that too.

810
00:53:13.860 --> 00:53:15.780
That's that's mentioned.

811
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:24.480
I do have less of a problem with that, though, because it goes back to something I was saying last podcast, which is you now have a main cast of six.

812
00:53:24.539 --> 00:53:33.659
And as with any ensemble show, this is the year that Doctor Who is an ensemble show, you emphasise and D emphasise different characters in different places.

813
00:53:34.139 --> 00:53:43.139
And this story particularly emphasises Captain Yates, but I think even more so, it emphasises Sergeant Benton, because it constantly pairs him up with Ollie Hawthorne, which is hilarious.

814
00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:44.639
They're having tea.

815
00:53:44.699 --> 00:53:52.380
So then they get to go and investigate underneath in the crypton and he steps on that the square and has a bit of a condition.

816
00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:56.639
But it's also to the point that this was meant to be the story where the brigadier's wife would appear.

817
00:53:56.699 --> 00:54:06.659
On paper, he had a wife called Fiona, Fiona Lethbridge Stewart, and she was just going to appear briefly, pretty much when he's woken up on the phone and he's saying, right, bring around my car.

818
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:08.340
Right, well, bring around my other car.

819
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:09.300
Well, wake up the doctor.

820
00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:10.019
Where is everyone?

821
00:54:10.139 --> 00:54:20.219
Apparently, there was just going to be this slinky female arm come across and try and pull him back into bed, but the BBC had a serial and said, no, you can't pull that out instead.

822
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:22.139
And you have to have him in pyjamas.

823
00:54:22.199 --> 00:54:24.780
No, Nick can't show up his medallions, et cetera, et cetera.

824
00:54:25.139 --> 00:54:33.960
Yeah, I don't think it's a problem, but it de-emphasizes the brigadier and he literally gets stuck outside the action because he's stuck on the other side of the thing.

825
00:54:34.019 --> 00:54:37.860
I'd like the action man stuff for Bentamin Yates.

826
00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:38.940
I actually really like that.

827
00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:40.619
They do come up 2nd best at times.

828
00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:43.260
I mean, Mike is a fist fight.

829
00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:46.139
You know, then he has the motorcycle, you know, chase.

830
00:54:46.199 --> 00:54:47.639
I'm going, 0 yeah, right, great.

831
00:54:47.699 --> 00:54:50.280
Mike Yates, man of mystery or whatever.

832
00:54:50.340 --> 00:54:51.539
I mean, he's an idiot.

833
00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:53.400
He leaves the keys to the chop...

834
00:54:53.400 --> 00:54:54.840
Yeah, in the chopper.

835
00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:59.159
So that evil villager can go and, you know, menace the doctor.

836
00:54:59.219 --> 00:55:03.900
And we can have some lovely stock footage from Russia with love when the helicopter explodes.

837
00:55:03.960 --> 00:55:04.500
Really?

838
00:55:04.500 --> 00:55:04.800
Yes.

839
00:55:04.860 --> 00:55:06.840
Yeah, they didn't explode an actual...

840
00:55:06.900 --> 00:55:08.159
I actually was about to take it.

841
00:55:08.219 --> 00:55:09.900
The proper explosion was great.

842
00:55:09.960 --> 00:55:11.039
It's here in my nose.

843
00:55:11.099 --> 00:55:13.320
It's because I'm in Russia with love.

844
00:55:13.380 --> 00:55:15.780
Just the light one in Enemy of the World.

845
00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:18.179
Both chosen by Barry Letts.

846
00:55:18.239 --> 00:55:22.380
You'll have to wait until Battlefield before they blow up a practical helicopter, I'm afraid.

847
00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:24.360
Okay, it's quite my way.

848
00:55:24.420 --> 00:55:29.099
I like the whole heap barrier thing, the way they try and charring the ground and that sort of thing.

849
00:55:29.159 --> 00:55:30.360
The heat haze thing.

850
00:55:30.420 --> 00:55:34.500
Yeah, I think that works quite well and there's a pretty effective sound effect that accompanies it.

851
00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:39.480
But it is another opportunity for her tweet to be obnoxious.

852
00:55:39.539 --> 00:55:46.980
So you've got Sergeant Osgood, who seems to be quite sweet, um, and he's trying desperately to...

853
00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:49.920
He's having a very bad day, the poor man.

854
00:55:49.980 --> 00:55:50.820
I think he does escape.

855
00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:51.360
He escapes.

856
00:55:51.420 --> 00:55:54.539
He blows up, but he has sort of the comedy black, maybe. sort.

857
00:55:54.539 --> 00:56:08.519
And so he's trying to understand from the doctor how to create this machine and pertry is sort of shouting instructions through the heat barrier at him and he's really dismissive and unpleasant to someone who is trying to help him as usual.

858
00:56:08.579 --> 00:56:13.559
Uh, and it, Pertwee's arrogant so often punches down.

859
00:56:13.619 --> 00:56:22.619
You know, he's often rude to people who, he is in a higher social position, man, and that's what makes him obnoxious.

860
00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:24.239
When he's angry at IMC.

861
00:56:24.300 --> 00:56:25.500
Do you know what I mean?

862
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:26.099
That's okay.

863
00:56:26.159 --> 00:56:28.320
That seems to be well-directed, righteous anger.

864
00:56:28.380 --> 00:56:32.400
But just being dismissive and unpleasant to Sergeant Osgood.

865
00:56:32.460 --> 00:56:34.380
It just makes him look mean.

866
00:56:34.500 --> 00:56:34.800
I think.

867
00:56:34.860 --> 00:56:43.559
Do you think that he's more so quite dismissive of people who are actually trying to help him and that also gets you back up at sometimes?

868
00:56:43.619 --> 00:56:44.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

869
00:56:44.760 --> 00:57:11.820
Look, I mean, I can I take your point and I can see that in the character, but when I went into this season and watching it, I was actively looking for positive things and I actually saw a journey that the character began to mellow, and although at times I was irritated, through Joe and through the team and through what was happening, At the end of the season, I was far happier with where the character was as opposed to the beginning.

870
00:57:11.880 --> 00:57:16.619
I do think there's some step backs in this story and I think that comes from the writer from Let's.

871
00:57:16.679 --> 00:57:28.079
But I, you know, certainly as we head into season nine, I think the character is, you know, if you look back at the beginning of season seven, the character is in a very different place, I think, anyway.

872
00:57:28.139 --> 00:57:29.280
It's improved.

873
00:57:29.340 --> 00:57:33.719
It's still not ever going to be perfect or what perhaps you want.

874
00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:39.179
But I'm pleasantly surprised that I'm actually liking him a lot more than what I thought.

875
00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:39.539
Okay.

876
00:57:39.599 --> 00:57:44.880
He gets, you know, some moments in here to be the great wizard, the qui, qui, quad.

877
00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:46.679
Oh, which is Latin.

878
00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:48.659
Yes, for what is it Latin for?

879
00:57:48.719 --> 00:57:49.619
It's such a mystery.

880
00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:50.340
Who?

881
00:57:50.340 --> 00:57:50.699
Yeah.

882
00:57:50.760 --> 00:57:51.900
Is it?

883
00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:52.739
No, no what?

884
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:55.920
Well, it's actually who, then feminine who, then what?

885
00:57:56.039 --> 00:58:04.500
It's the way that the word for who would have presented itself in like a kid's vocabulary book, Latin, vocabulary book or a dictionary.

886
00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:07.679
So at least masculine, feminine, and neuter. off the word for who?

887
00:58:07.739 --> 00:58:15.480
So he's a great wizard, Qui, Qui, Qui, which really brings us to another problem with the story, which is the villagers are just terrible and kind of stupid.

888
00:58:15.539 --> 00:58:23.280
And the qui quad things being used to get him out of being burned alive by a mob of angry villagers.

889
00:58:23.340 --> 00:58:30.780
And it's been observed over and over again that they are the most bored looking mob of angry villagers that's ever been committed to film.

890
00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:35.519
They're all just standing around, looking listless and sort of only vaguely interested.

891
00:58:35.579 --> 00:58:40.559
You know what I think it is, except really for Bert McKillop and a couple of these cronies.

892
00:58:40.619 --> 00:58:42.059
No one actually knows what's going on.

893
00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:45.840
They're just like, oh, this year's made procession is a bit out of control.

894
00:58:46.139 --> 00:58:54.179
You know, you even get a moment where there's a child standing out on a doorstep watching and mum sort of drags the child back in very disapproving.

895
00:58:54.239 --> 00:58:54.840
Yes, yes.

896
00:58:54.900 --> 00:58:55.440
What is it?

897
00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:58.920
Is that the, is it because the Maypole thing is kind of a...

898
00:58:58.980 --> 00:59:00.420
It's a little bit pagan a little bit.

899
00:59:00.420 --> 00:59:01.440
Yeah, okay. versatility.

900
00:59:01.500 --> 00:59:04.019
Yeah, I think most people are just going, this is a bit weird.

901
00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:06.239
Why are they tying someone up?

902
00:59:06.300 --> 00:59:08.340
I mean, why are they so stupid?

903
00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:09.719
Why are the villagers so stupid?

904
00:59:09.780 --> 00:59:10.559
It is a big shame.

905
00:59:10.619 --> 00:59:16.320
And, and, Can I just say, on the villages, those Morris dances and all that May dancing?

906
00:59:16.380 --> 00:59:20.820
Oh, I just wanted to like, I just, oh, I was just thinking, this is padding.

907
00:59:20.880 --> 00:59:24.119
Well, it is, but it's also just sort of strange stereotonic things.

908
00:59:24.179 --> 00:59:25.800
So this is actually our 1st English village.

909
00:59:25.860 --> 00:59:33.059
And the English village, the sleepy English village becomes kind of one of the staples of the program, and we will see it sort of over and over again.

910
00:59:33.119 --> 00:59:52.320
And I think that the Maypole thing and credulous, uh, you know, gangs of witch burning hayseed hicks, is actually just sort of more unpleasant stereotyping, but that's how, you know, sophisticated BBC people out, you know, like in the villages.

911
00:59:52.380 --> 00:59:54.000
It is sort of somewhat unpleasable.

912
00:59:54.119 --> 01:00:06.000
So it's not an attempt to put something into the program that is familiar, like here are the villages, and you live in a village and you're watching our program and this is you and you can identify.

913
01:00:06.059 --> 01:00:07.019
You're really stupid.

914
01:00:07.139 --> 01:00:10.860
And let's see the ratings positive. like 2 million viewers.

915
01:00:10.980 --> 01:00:15.119
But also the BBC do send themselves up in the character.

916
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:20.400
Oh, yeah, yeah. in the character of Fergie and his and his...

917
01:00:20.460 --> 01:00:21.119
Harry.

918
01:00:21.179 --> 01:00:26.519
One of the things I do like about this is that the master gets a cliffhanger in episode three.

919
01:00:26.579 --> 01:00:27.840
He's under threat.

920
01:00:27.900 --> 01:00:32.400
It's not only that, he gets pretty much 2 unedable pleafangers, one after the other.

921
01:00:32.460 --> 01:00:38.159
So Azal arrives, the master's in peril, Azal goes away and has a bit of a sleep.

922
01:00:38.219 --> 01:00:42.360
Then Azar arrives at the end of episode 4 and the Masters...

923
01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:44.280
Well, the master's actually doing quite well by then.

924
01:00:44.340 --> 01:00:45.659
But as I arrived.

925
01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:51.900
So we actually literally go back to the same position and we have 25 minutes of just sort of marking time.

926
01:00:51.960 --> 01:00:54.599
So it is a sort of giant plot.

927
01:00:54.719 --> 01:00:58.139
Mess, pacing wise, you know.

928
01:00:58.199 --> 01:01:02.880
Maybe they were struggling with the fact that it was 5 episodes and not 6 or four.

929
01:01:02.940 --> 01:01:05.159
Why is it 5 episodes?

930
01:01:05.219 --> 01:01:09.000
Because they've still got 25 from the previous season and they haven't been given any budget.

931
01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:11.639
And now that they've proved themselves, they can be successful.

932
01:01:11.699 --> 01:01:12.239
They get 26.

933
01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:12.900
They get 26.

934
01:01:13.079 --> 01:01:13.920
Yeah, exactly.

935
01:01:13.980 --> 01:01:15.539
That's precisely why.

936
01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:18.420
Just to talk about where the story might have come from a little.

937
01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:25.559
The idea of the sleepy yet sinister English village had actually been explored quite a bit in the previous five years.

938
01:01:25.619 --> 01:01:31.980
First of all, you had the publication of the novel Ritual, which 2 years later would be used as a basis for the Wickerman.

939
01:01:32.099 --> 01:01:41.820
You also had the novel The Owl Service, published in 1967, I believe, which in 1969 was adapted for television on ITV.

940
01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:50.039
And that was about an English village where a tragic debt that it had occurred and 3 teenage characters were starting to act out.

941
01:01:50.099 --> 01:01:52.019
So that had a magical element to it as well.

942
01:01:52.079 --> 01:02:00.179
And finally, one of the most popular episodes of The Avengers, which we can still come up to, take a drink, dear listener, Murdersville.

943
01:02:00.179 --> 01:02:10.380
I've seen that, actually. is all about a sleepy English village in which you can pay the villagers a £10000, lure your business enemy there and kill them, and they'll dispose of the body for you.

944
01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:11.880
So that sounds great.

945
01:02:11.940 --> 01:02:24.900
So in the years leading up to this, we had quite a few stories, quite a few popular stories, which, yeah, we're kind of saying, um, village, village life.

946
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:33.960
Oh, it's mysterious and it's odd because of the rise of populations in cities and that's where people were watching television and that's where people were buying lots of books.

947
01:02:34.019 --> 01:02:37.800
The Doctor Who seems to have sort of jumped on the bandwagon there.

948
01:02:37.860 --> 01:02:40.800
Can I tell you another band by that it's jumped on?

949
01:02:40.860 --> 01:02:41.159
Yes.

950
01:02:41.219 --> 01:02:56.880
So, um, in 1968, Eric von Denniken published chariots of the gods, which is a very famous book in which he suggested that aliens had helped, you know, to construct the pyramids in Stonehenge and that it wasn't Peter Butterworth who did that after all.

951
01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:03.659
And that elements of the Old Testament and other human belief systems were influenced by aliens.

952
01:03:03.719 --> 01:03:09.000
And that is directly in this story, isn't it?

953
01:03:09.059 --> 01:03:22.260
It turns out that magic isn't real, and the doctor explains it using a lovely slideshow presentation with horns. brilliant.

954
01:03:22.320 --> 01:03:43.139
So, so, um, the doctor explains that what is magic is an alien kind of uh, that feeds on sort of scionic energy or, or human emotion or something like that, and that the rituals being used in the master ceremony are part of the sort of demons, you know, ancient magic technology.

955
01:03:43.619 --> 01:03:51.300
And Olive Hawthorne very sensibly says that, well, that is magic then, isn't it?

956
01:03:51.360 --> 01:03:55.679
And because we like Olive Hawthorne and we're now inclined to believe what she says.

957
01:03:55.739 --> 01:04:00.719
So I think this is the moment where the where Doctor Who gets to have magic now.

958
01:04:00.780 --> 01:04:09.179
And all it has to do is say some sort of stupid hand wavy things about it being science and it can essentially do whatever it wants.

959
01:04:09.239 --> 01:04:15.539
And now that's um, that's something that will, you know, continue into the present day.

960
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:28.559
And the other thing that this story does for the 1st time, which is a staple of Doctor Who, is the sleeping evil from the dawn of time that influences, you know, the world's mythology or human evolution or something.

961
01:04:28.619 --> 01:04:37.559
And so we get, you know, Kronos next year, pyramids of Mars, image of the Fendal, state of decay, curse of Fendrick, the impossible planet.

962
01:04:37.619 --> 01:04:39.659
Like it happens over and over again.

963
01:04:39.719 --> 01:04:42.300
And so that's something that this story introduces.

964
01:04:42.360 --> 01:04:44.099
So that broadens the scope.

965
01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:48.840
And I guess this is Santa for that broadens the scope of what this show can actually now do.

966
01:04:48.900 --> 01:04:53.579
And it also gives the the 2nd sinking of Atlantis.

967
01:04:53.639 --> 01:04:55.260
You just can't keep a good city down.

968
01:04:55.320 --> 01:04:55.980
No.

969
01:04:55.980 --> 01:05:01.139
So really, it's not all that bad, if that's what it does.

970
01:05:01.199 --> 01:05:02.880
It's seminal. you know what I mean?

971
01:05:02.940 --> 01:05:07.559
It introduces some elements to the show that haven't happened before.

972
01:05:07.619 --> 01:05:10.199
It's a train wreck as far as pacing's concerned.

973
01:05:10.260 --> 01:05:16.500
You know, like we did talk about the village, but maybe it's really only Olive Hawthorne, who's of any interest.

974
01:05:16.500 --> 01:05:19.559
I love the fact that what she carries in her handbag.

975
01:05:20.340 --> 01:05:22.260
That's so funny.

976
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:25.019
Hitch, he hits that guy with her reticule.

977
01:05:25.079 --> 01:05:26.820
She should be killed.

978
01:05:26.880 --> 01:05:28.320
I mean, really?

979
01:05:28.440 --> 01:05:32.340
And she says, on these occasions, the outcome is a certain.

980
01:05:32.400 --> 01:05:34.320
She's terrific.

981
01:05:34.380 --> 01:05:36.659
There is in this in this season.

982
01:05:36.719 --> 01:05:44.219
These little comic characters and comic elements much more so than what happened, I think, the previous year.

983
01:05:44.280 --> 01:05:45.360
I think there's a lot more comedy.

984
01:05:45.420 --> 01:05:47.579
And maybe than before.

985
01:05:47.639 --> 01:05:48.539
Yeah, yeah.

986
01:05:48.599 --> 01:05:52.860
And I think I think it's a lot better balanced than the comedy that came before as well.

987
01:05:52.920 --> 01:05:58.500
Because, you know, if we look at, say, the space pirates, that had comic characters in it.

988
01:05:58.679 --> 01:06:00.119
Exactly.

989
01:06:00.179 --> 01:06:03.300
You know, that had Milo Clancy and Domacy Gree.

990
01:06:03.300 --> 01:06:05.280
Two...

991
01:06:05.340 --> 01:06:12.840
I'm not going to watch that. 2 unintelligible old men possibly making jokes at each other who can say they could have been reading recipes.

992
01:06:12.900 --> 01:06:17.880
But, you know, this is comedy that anyone can understand because it's coming from recognisable characters.

993
01:06:17.940 --> 01:06:24.420
You've got the whole team there who can make these little jokes because they've got a bond and that sort of thing.

994
01:06:24.420 --> 01:06:32.219
And then you've got the characters like, oh, Hawthorne who come in and because Mikey, it's Mikey, it's some officer to dance with the brigadier at the end.

995
01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:34.920
Oh, see, another little comedy ending to the season.

996
01:06:34.980 --> 01:06:37.320
But before we get there, God.

997
01:06:37.440 --> 01:06:40.019
What resolution, the climax of the whole story.

998
01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:45.719
Oh, the wonderful Joe is going to sacrifice herself for the doctor.

999
01:06:45.780 --> 01:06:46.619
Is that what we talking about?

1000
01:06:46.679 --> 01:06:51.300
Yeah, so the doctor's doing a really crummy job of convincing himself to destroy the earth.

1001
01:06:51.360 --> 01:07:02.159
And one of the ways that he tries to convince us all is by saying how bad humanity is, how we're polluting everything, how we could blow up the world, we probably will.

1002
01:07:02.219 --> 01:07:07.860
It's like a really poorly written speech as well, and it's poorly delivered by poetry news kind of thing.

1003
01:07:07.920 --> 01:07:08.880
What the hell are you doing?

1004
01:07:08.940 --> 01:07:10.679
Say nice things about us.

1005
01:07:10.739 --> 01:07:12.599
You know, do you want him to destroy us?

1006
01:07:12.659 --> 01:07:15.480
It's like that Monty Python sketch.

1007
01:07:15.539 --> 01:07:17.039
I'm sorry about my wife.

1008
01:07:17.099 --> 01:07:30.179
She's horrid, short, and she doesn't conduct very good conversation, but on the other hand, Sorry, I forgot where I was going, you know, that's exactly that kind of speech. terrible.

1009
01:07:30.239 --> 01:07:35.460
And so Joe leaps in to sacrifice yourself a friend of the doctor.

1010
01:07:35.519 --> 01:07:37.019
Yeah, don't kill him, kill me.

1011
01:07:37.079 --> 01:07:44.219
And, you know, the logical pop thing would have been for us all to go, you see, that's what I was looking for. humanity's capable of this, right?

1012
01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:44.940
I'll bugger off.

1013
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:47.039
But instead of like...

1014
01:07:47.099 --> 01:07:49.380
It's like Zoe has spoken to him in our goal.

1015
01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:51.119
And so he's going to explode.

1016
01:07:51.179 --> 01:07:52.980
It's like you're exactly right.

1017
01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:58.320
It would have been so simple for that that act of self-sacrifice to convince us all.

1018
01:07:58.380 --> 01:08:00.840
But do we have to kill a monster and blow up the church.

1019
01:08:00.900 --> 01:08:04.199
You know, it'd have been no good if the monster had just gone, all right, well, I'm off then.

1020
01:08:04.260 --> 01:08:06.239
I'm the devil, but I'm going.

1021
01:08:06.300 --> 01:08:08.460
The thing is, see, that'd be quite nice, but...

1022
01:08:08.460 --> 01:08:09.480
You could have blown up the church.

1023
01:08:09.539 --> 01:08:11.940
I mean, it's like in the previous story, is that dent.

1024
01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:13.679
Yes, and killed.

1025
01:08:13.739 --> 01:08:15.780
No, he isn't killed.

1026
01:08:15.840 --> 01:08:18.479
But he, there will be consequences, but you don't see it here.

1027
01:08:18.539 --> 01:08:23.699
Here, as no one could say, right, well, you've proven your worth as a species, I shall now depart.

1028
01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:25.920
It's like a Star Trek ending.

1029
01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:32.699
Well, the thing is, how awesome would it have been for a result to then go, yes, I will know the part.

1030
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:34.199
The thing is, he doesn't shrink.

1031
01:08:34.260 --> 01:08:41.399
He just grows and destroys the church and we have a Godzilla ending where he stomps across back to devil's hump to the spaceship and goes home.

1032
01:08:41.460 --> 01:08:42.479
Never too.

1033
01:08:43.020 --> 01:08:49.979
Yeah, we could have actually had giant sizes are stomping on buildings as he goes and everyone go, ah, we're terrible scarcity.

1034
01:08:50.039 --> 01:08:51.300
That could have been great.

1035
01:08:51.420 --> 01:08:53.880
He has a few moments of CSO problem, doesn't he?

1036
01:08:53.939 --> 01:08:56.340
And he's another one that chest hair, I think.

1037
01:08:56.399 --> 01:08:57.180
With horses, though.

1038
01:08:57.239 --> 01:09:00.479
But he's got he's got skin on his legs.

1039
01:09:00.539 --> 01:09:05.279
So he's clearly wearing stockings that probably he shops in the same place as the primitives, I think.

1040
01:09:05.340 --> 01:09:06.659
Sorry.

1041
01:09:06.720 --> 01:09:07.920
I think that might be the problem.

1042
01:09:07.920 --> 01:09:09.659
And it is Stephen Thorne shouting.

1043
01:09:09.720 --> 01:09:15.600
Okay, it adds the 1st appearance of Stephen Thorne. who will become a regular guest star over the next 3 years.

1044
01:09:15.659 --> 01:09:16.739
He keeps coming back.

1045
01:09:16.800 --> 01:09:18.659
So he's the only guy who else is in?

1046
01:09:18.720 --> 01:09:19.380
wearing masks.

1047
01:09:19.439 --> 01:09:20.460
He's Omega.

1048
01:09:20.520 --> 01:09:21.539
He's an Ogrom.

1049
01:09:21.600 --> 01:09:22.739
Oh, really?

1050
01:09:22.739 --> 01:09:25.979
He is also Eldred.

1051
01:09:26.039 --> 01:09:27.600
Oh yes, of course he is.

1052
01:09:27.659 --> 01:09:30.960
Although you'd be forgiven for thinking he's Elder has played by Brian Blessett.

1053
01:09:31.020 --> 01:09:33.539
Stephen Thorn doing a very good Brian Blessed impersonation.

1054
01:09:33.600 --> 01:09:35.279
He is rational, but we're getting ahead of that.

1055
01:09:35.340 --> 01:09:36.720
That's spoil.

1056
01:09:36.720 --> 01:09:37.199
Yes.

1057
01:09:37.500 --> 01:09:41.880
I actually think the Damens is my favourite story of this season.

1058
01:09:41.939 --> 01:09:42.600
Okay.

1059
01:09:42.600 --> 01:09:52.500
Just because it's almost mind of evil, but I think Damon's really balances drama and comedy and character quite well.

1060
01:09:52.560 --> 01:09:58.800
I know the brigadier doesn't get very much to do, but really, a brigadier is a brigadier general.

1061
01:09:58.859 --> 01:10:00.659
He shouldn't always be in the field.

1062
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:02.159
He's got his 2 guys in the field.

1063
01:10:02.220 --> 01:10:03.359
They're running around in sippies.

1064
01:10:03.420 --> 01:10:04.680
So having a fabulous time.

1065
01:10:05.159 --> 01:10:10.920
I know it's very sort of big in spectacle, but yeah, I can't help but like it.

1066
01:10:10.979 --> 01:10:15.239
Yeah, and you've got the whole team there having fun and that sort of thing.

1067
01:10:15.300 --> 01:10:15.899
You know I like it.

1068
01:10:15.960 --> 01:10:19.739
I can see, Nathan, what you're saying, there are problems with it.

1069
01:10:19.800 --> 01:10:27.659
But again, you know, I've come away from this season, enjoying all the stories, some a little bit more than others.

1070
01:10:27.720 --> 01:10:33.539
But really discovering something new and feeling quite positive about the journey that is ahead.

1071
01:10:33.659 --> 01:10:38.460
I think all 5 stories are pretty fun and they're all watchable.

1072
01:10:38.520 --> 01:10:49.680
And I think, you know, Pertwee, you know, is always, you know, like he's never sort of, he's never bad to watch and it is nice having all those regular people around and hanging out with those people.

1073
01:10:49.800 --> 01:10:53.699
You know, even if they're not particularly spectacularly characterised.

1074
01:10:53.760 --> 01:11:02.100
But I would have to say that I, my opinion, is completely the opposite of yours, and my least favourite ones were mine of evil.

1075
01:11:02.159 --> 01:11:04.619
And um, and, and this one.

1076
01:11:05.039 --> 01:11:08.819
Um, just before we move on to our awards for the season.

1077
01:11:08.880 --> 01:11:16.380
I just want to say that I think part of the reason I love this story so much is it wraps itself up and it wraps the whole season up so well.

1078
01:11:16.439 --> 01:11:20.520
I mean, I don't just mean the master being captured, but I mean that beautiful last line.

1079
01:11:20.579 --> 01:11:23.340
I mean, everyone quotes, fancier dance, brigadier.

1080
01:11:23.399 --> 01:11:24.060
No thanks, Captain.

1081
01:11:24.119 --> 01:11:25.680
I'd rather have a pint, which is very sweet.

1082
01:11:25.739 --> 01:11:36.720
The closing line just sort of sums up that Doctor Who is back and it's finished reinventing itself when the doctor says to Joe, you know, Joe, perhaps there is magic in the world.

1083
01:11:36.779 --> 01:11:41.520
And everyone's just having great time. peace has been restored to this village.

1084
01:11:41.579 --> 01:11:50.220
The world's been saved, the master's under lock and key, and the doctor, I think, in that moment, that's his final acceptance of Joe. That's lovely.

1085
01:11:50.279 --> 01:11:52.500
Yeah, I think that's...

1086
01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:59.460
So, um, from that sort of a loveliness.

1087
01:11:59.520 --> 01:12:11.939
Let's move on to our Jenny Laird awards and I've been having a look at some dates and Terror of the Autons was recorded 9 months after Ambassadors of Death. roughly.

1088
01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:25.859
Now, we know from Carolyn John that she was about 3 months pregnant during Ambassador's death, which means she would have had her child 3 months before terror of the auton started location filming.

1089
01:12:26.460 --> 01:12:36.479
So my Jenny Laird award from those puzzling creative choice is, Could we not have had some way to have a leaving scene for this?

1090
01:12:36.539 --> 01:12:40.380
Some brief appearance in some way, shape, or form?

1091
01:12:40.439 --> 01:12:50.880
Now, Barry Letzer said, I didn't record a leaving scene for her, because I felt that the character hadn't been in the show long enough to need a leaving scene.

1092
01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:55.079
They'd already decided that she was leaving before they finished recording Inferno.

1093
01:12:55.140 --> 01:12:56.340
She knew that was me.

1094
01:12:56.399 --> 01:12:57.779
She knew that was her last story.

1095
01:12:57.840 --> 01:12:58.859
I believe that's true.

1096
01:12:58.920 --> 01:13:06.420
She was actually on the contract for the 1st 2 stories of season 7, then was contracted separately for the last 2 and Barry already had misgivings about the character at that point.

1097
01:13:06.479 --> 01:13:06.899
Right.

1098
01:13:06.960 --> 01:13:13.979
I understand that it was mutual, and of course, that 3 month old baby, you're probably not going to want to work.

1099
01:13:14.039 --> 01:13:15.000
You want to spend time with your child.

1100
01:13:15.060 --> 01:13:25.199
But if she wasn't important enough, if you like, to warrant a leaving scene, why is she important enough to mention in the script, it's either one way or the other.

1101
01:13:25.319 --> 01:13:30.239
So I think if they couldn't get her back, it might have even been preferable not to say anything at all.

1102
01:13:30.359 --> 01:13:47.939
It's that, it is that terrible 60s thing, isn't it, that they just almost never get it right with getting rid of the characters, and the 2 exceptions are, obviously, Ian and Barbara, and, um, Debbie Watling's character who might've completely forgotten, what was she called?

1103
01:13:48.000 --> 01:13:48.479
Victoria?

1104
01:13:48.539 --> 01:13:49.260
Yeah, I've heard that.

1105
01:13:49.319 --> 01:13:54.300
Oh, and obviously Jamie and Zoe as well, you know, but the whole show's...

1106
01:13:54.359 --> 01:13:59.100
Yeah, actually, but mind you, Ben and Polly are written out halfway through their leaving story.

1107
01:13:59.159 --> 01:14:02.699
They get a decent enough scene saying goodbye to the doctor.

1108
01:14:02.760 --> 01:14:04.560
But the final story is for me.

1109
01:14:04.619 --> 01:14:06.119
Yeah, yeah, it's a shame.

1110
01:14:06.180 --> 01:14:14.340
So it's a real problem, I think, because we're going to invest in these characters and they're just going to throw them away.

1111
01:14:14.460 --> 01:14:18.899
But the thing is, you know, they are setting up a whole new premise at the beginning of the season.

1112
01:14:18.960 --> 01:14:23.039
And I think to have her there is just, would have been a jarring moment.

1113
01:14:23.159 --> 01:14:26.579
And they just needed to just to have the new faces.

1114
01:14:26.640 --> 01:14:28.800
And you know, I'm glad she's at least mentioned.

1115
01:14:28.920 --> 01:14:35.939
In fact, it's really interesting because they introduce Joe before they tell us that Liz is leaving.

1116
01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:39.180
And so you are kind of sitting there going, where's Liz?

1117
01:14:39.239 --> 01:14:39.840
Is she coming?

1118
01:14:39.899 --> 01:14:40.500
Where is she?

1119
01:14:40.560 --> 01:14:47.880
You know, and then, you know, this woman comes in and, you know, hand fisted bum vendor, which again, gosh, Pertu is obnoxious.

1120
01:14:47.939 --> 01:14:55.680
Um, uh, and then only then do we, like we start, I think, to suspect maybe Lizzie's and coming back. then we get it confirmed.

1121
01:14:55.739 --> 01:14:59.939
I think that's when Sue, and the wife in space, says something, winds up, oh, this isn't going to like this.

1122
01:15:00.659 --> 01:15:06.779
But yeah, I mean, and the thing is, this is a minor nickel because I don't have a problem with much in this season.

1123
01:15:06.840 --> 01:15:11.819
I was tempted to make my journey later war, you know, why is our 1st alien planet in 2 years, so crap.

1124
01:15:11.880 --> 01:15:14.159
But I've already harped on about that.

1125
01:15:14.220 --> 01:15:20.100
So I'm just going to say, Don't try and hit the middle ground with a companion leaving scene, either have one or don't.

1126
01:15:20.159 --> 01:15:22.619
They won't learn from this lesson, will they?

1127
01:15:22.680 --> 01:15:24.899
It will happen very badly again and again.

1128
01:15:25.140 --> 01:15:27.899
I don't think it ever happens quite this badly.

1129
01:15:28.020 --> 01:15:30.060
This production team will learn from this.

1130
01:15:30.119 --> 01:15:32.340
Oh, yeah, with Joe's leaving seems beautiful.

1131
01:15:32.399 --> 01:15:33.300
Spoiler alert.

1132
01:15:34.199 --> 01:15:37.260
Yeah, maybe this is the worst.

1133
01:15:37.260 --> 01:15:38.640
We've had this conversation, haven't we?

1134
01:15:38.699 --> 01:15:42.300
We did decide it was Liz, that her leaving is worse than dodo.

1135
01:15:42.359 --> 01:15:42.960
It's worse.

1136
01:15:42.960 --> 01:15:44.220
Because we care about it more.

1137
01:15:44.279 --> 01:15:45.239
Yeah I think that's it.

1138
01:15:45.300 --> 01:15:48.300
My Jenny Laird award goes to Michael Burtle.

1139
01:15:48.359 --> 01:15:49.439
Who is that?

1140
01:15:49.500 --> 01:15:52.560
He is responsible for the costumes in colony in space.

1141
01:15:53.279 --> 01:16:06.659
And it is that just the massively unflattering look of the costumes that the IMC people wear that just make them all look paunchy and have big bums.

1142
01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:10.920
And then and then there's Dent, you know, who we've said is really, really good.

1143
01:16:10.979 --> 01:16:17.640
Like, I think he must be one of the best Doctor Who villains ever, who is just absolutely hamstrung by that wig.

1144
01:16:17.699 --> 01:16:19.439
The wig is so bad.

1145
01:16:19.500 --> 01:16:25.619
And you can see that it's like trying to be, you know, like Commander Straker from UFO or something.

1146
01:16:25.680 --> 01:16:27.779
It's like he's got future hair.

1147
01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:31.500
You know, but it is he's more gay Ellis from UFO.

1148
01:16:31.560 --> 01:16:33.060
It's really, really bad.

1149
01:16:33.119 --> 01:16:36.960
So everyone looks sort of pigeon chested and so on.

1150
01:16:37.020 --> 01:16:48.779
So, uh, so Michael uh, gets my Jenny Laird award, uh, and he's well and truly uh, in the running because he does come back in season 16 and do the costumes for the Armageddon factor.

1151
01:16:48.840 --> 01:16:50.159
Oh, damn.

1152
01:16:50.279 --> 01:16:52.260
Not a great track record.

1153
01:16:52.319 --> 01:16:52.739
No.

1154
01:16:52.739 --> 01:16:56.159
Well, I guess my Jenny Laird Award.

1155
01:16:56.220 --> 01:16:58.380
Oh, this is Todd's 1st Jenny Laird award.

1156
01:16:58.439 --> 01:16:59.819
Savour the moment.

1157
01:16:59.939 --> 01:17:00.960
Oh, save at the moment.

1158
01:17:01.020 --> 01:17:02.220
Gee, don't build it up too much.

1159
01:17:02.279 --> 01:17:07.560
I've been fishing around in my head all sorts of options, but I think it has to go to puff the magic dragon.

1160
01:17:07.680 --> 01:17:12.960
I mean, what were they thinking, you know, and showing the whole thing was a mistake.

1161
01:17:13.020 --> 01:17:15.060
A mistake, a mistake.

1162
01:17:15.119 --> 01:17:16.020
Terrific?

1163
01:17:16.079 --> 01:17:16.680
Yeah, well done.

1164
01:17:16.739 --> 01:17:22.800
For my pick of the month. going back to my old stalwart big finish, and it kind of ties in with my Jenny Laird Award 2.

1165
01:17:22.979 --> 01:17:26.220
Set between terror of the autons and the mind of evil.

1166
01:17:26.279 --> 01:17:31.439
We have The Sentinels of the New Dawn, which is performed by Carol and John.

1167
01:17:31.500 --> 01:17:32.520
Oh wow.

1168
01:17:32.579 --> 01:17:33.659
What this is.

1169
01:17:33.720 --> 01:17:41.279
This is a story during season 8 where Liz has encountered something sinister at Cambridge and calls the doctor for help.

1170
01:17:41.880 --> 01:17:49.739
And as it's told in the story, rather than being a reunion of 2 people saying, bitterly saying, why did you, why did you leave?

1171
01:17:49.800 --> 01:17:51.000
you know, da.

1172
01:17:51.060 --> 01:17:59.039
It's actually 2 colleagues meeting and it's written as a great mutual respect and it's so wonderful to see you, you're doing so well.

1173
01:17:59.100 --> 01:18:08.819
And the thing is, though, she gets a more season eight-ish alien invasion, sinister organisation, trip on a speedboat kind of plot.

1174
01:18:08.880 --> 01:18:10.739
So it's really, really good.

1175
01:18:10.800 --> 01:18:16.380
It's also a prequel to a later Doctor Who missing story Leviathan, which is very good.

1176
01:18:16.439 --> 01:18:24.479
But my recommendation is Doctor Who, the Companion Chronicles, the Sentinels of the New Dawn, because I haven't had enough Liz Shaw yet.

1177
01:18:24.539 --> 01:18:25.800
Who has?

1178
01:18:25.859 --> 01:18:27.300
Indeed.

1179
01:18:27.420 --> 01:18:31.560
So my pick of the week is a completely self-serving one.

1180
01:18:31.619 --> 01:18:32.279
Hooray!

1181
01:18:32.340 --> 01:18:34.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah. randomiser again?

1182
01:18:34.739 --> 01:18:40.680
It's not the randomiser, although go and visit the randomiser.net if you want to not know what Doctor Who story you're going to watch next.

1183
01:18:40.739 --> 01:18:44.819
No, my pick of the week is a new website, which has just only been up for a few weeks.

1184
01:18:44.880 --> 01:18:47.220
It's called Crater of Needles.

1185
01:18:47.279 --> 01:18:47.760
Oh, yes.

1186
01:18:47.760 --> 01:18:51.539
And it's created, I think, by Stephen Wood.

1187
01:18:51.600 --> 01:18:54.000
So there are a few articles so far.

1188
01:18:54.060 --> 01:18:58.260
He's talked about heart, all he's talked about and compared it to the beginning of the new season.

1189
01:18:58.319 --> 01:19:01.739
He's talked about Doctor Who marathons.

1190
01:19:01.739 --> 01:19:13.979
And in that context, he was kind enough to mention the podcast favourably and talk about how we were chronicling the experience of watching Doctor Who all the way through in order.

1191
01:19:14.039 --> 01:19:15.539
And it was very sweet.

1192
01:19:15.600 --> 01:19:20.579
It was, uh, it was uh, very nice to have such nice things set of bounces.

1193
01:19:20.699 --> 01:19:25.739
So, uh, it's crater of needles.com, uh, and you can follow the author, Stephen Wood.

1194
01:19:25.800 --> 01:19:29.760
He's Stephen with a PH, Stephen Wood underscore UK on Twitter.

1195
01:19:29.819 --> 01:19:34.739
Yeah, well, I hope he's enjoyed season 8. interesting.

1196
01:19:35.279 --> 01:19:39.420
My pick of the...

1197
01:19:39.479 --> 01:19:41.640
I call it pick of the week, but that's crazy talk.

1198
01:19:41.699 --> 01:19:47.880
Okay, because the week is the big finish audio, The Feast of Axels.

1199
01:19:47.939 --> 01:19:51.300
Axel's climate, fuel system exhausted.

1200
01:19:51.359 --> 01:19:53.100
Request immediate assistance.

1201
01:19:53.460 --> 01:19:56.159
We don't fall for that again, do we?

1202
01:19:56.220 --> 01:20:06.300
Well, you'll have to listen to it and find out what the 6th doctor, Evelyn Smythe, and Bernard Holy, who was the voice of Axelos is back.

1203
01:20:06.300 --> 01:20:07.199
Get up to.

1204
01:20:07.260 --> 01:20:08.640
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1205
01:20:08.699 --> 01:20:11.579
It's worth it just to hear him say those immortal minds.

1206
01:20:11.640 --> 01:20:16.560
So it's strange that again, it was like having the zombie big finish one.

1207
01:20:16.619 --> 01:20:17.340
Do you know what I mean?

1208
01:20:17.399 --> 01:20:17.880
kind of thing.

1209
01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:26.399
This is so visual and so TV-ish that it would be a strange choice to kind of try and create a sequel to on audio.

1210
01:20:26.460 --> 01:20:27.000
Does it work?

1211
01:20:27.060 --> 01:20:30.420
I think it does, and I think it's because it's the voice of Axels.

1212
01:20:30.479 --> 01:20:31.199
Yeah, yeah.

1213
01:20:31.260 --> 01:20:32.520
And it just works.

1214
01:20:32.579 --> 01:20:34.619
I really like that one too.

1215
01:20:34.680 --> 01:20:37.739
And dear listener, if you do track down that story and listen to it.

1216
01:20:37.800 --> 01:20:41.039
I highly recommend the Cliffhanger to episode three.

1217
01:20:41.159 --> 01:20:44.279
I'm not gonna say anything more about it, but very, very effective.

1218
01:20:44.340 --> 01:20:45.659
Ooh, I'm intrigued.

1219
01:20:59.460 --> 01:21:06.899
Now, next time, it will be, uh, myself, Nathan, and Richard Todd, you will join us again for season 10, I believe.

1220
01:21:06.960 --> 01:21:08.039
NT.

1221
01:21:08.100 --> 01:21:11.100
However, the story allocations are as follows.

1222
01:21:11.760 --> 01:21:19.439
Nathan, for Season 9, you will be discussing the Mutants, and the Time Monster.

1223
01:21:19.680 --> 01:21:22.859
I actually don't mind the time also, that'll be fun.

1224
01:21:22.920 --> 01:21:27.119
I will again be on the Planet of Mac Hulk with the sea devils.

1225
01:21:27.239 --> 01:21:29.460
More giant lizards, more giant lizards.

1226
01:21:29.520 --> 01:21:32.220
And Richard, if you're listening, and I hope you are.

1227
01:21:32.279 --> 01:21:35.159
You have got Day of the Daleks.

1228
01:21:35.279 --> 01:21:37.859
And the curse of Paladin.

1229
01:21:37.920 --> 01:21:45.479
Now, Todd, the next time you join us for season 10, you will be mainlining the classic carnival of monsters.

1230
01:21:45.539 --> 01:21:47.039
Oh, no.

1231
01:21:47.039 --> 01:21:48.779
That's her to his best story.

1232
01:21:48.840 --> 01:21:50.460
I love it.

1233
01:21:50.520 --> 01:21:52.319
Time to rewatch it.

1234
01:21:52.619 --> 01:21:59.159
As already proven, there are things that I've watched that I thought I didn't like that I really like, so, you know?

1235
01:21:59.220 --> 01:22:00.300
He's hoping.

1236
01:22:00.420 --> 01:22:03.119
Well, it's bound to be a very interesting next 2 months.

1237
01:22:03.239 --> 01:22:06.239
But until we see you again in 2 weeks, dear listener.

1238
01:22:06.300 --> 01:22:08.340
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1239
01:22:08.399 --> 01:22:09.060
Good night.

1240
01:22:09.119 --> 01:22:09.659
Good night.

1241
01:22:11.039 --> 01:22:16.020
That was Flight 2 Entirety, with Todd Building, Nathan Bottomley, and Brandon New Jones.

1242
01:22:16.079 --> 01:22:20.640
This episode, punching Terry Walsh in the face, was reported on February the 1st, 2015.

1243
01:22:20.819 --> 01:22:23.579
The next episode will be released on March 15th.

1244
01:22:23.640 --> 01:22:30.000
You can find us online at flight toentires.com, flight to entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter.

1245
01:22:30.060 --> 01:22:34.380
We dedicate this episode to memory of Bernard K, who played Caldwell in Colony and Space.

1246
01:22:37.560 --> 01:22:39.600
Try and truly.

1247
01:22:39.659 --> 01:22:40.260
No, that's okay.

1248
01:22:40.319 --> 01:22:42.300
I just pressed record so I could just sit down.

1249
01:22:44.039 --> 01:22:45.960
So what should we talk about?

1250
01:22:46.020 --> 01:22:47.100
Blake seven.

1251
01:22:48.239 --> 01:22:50.699
Oh, I want to get more notes.

1252
01:22:50.819 --> 01:22:54.239
We've got so many fascinating things to say about this.

1253
01:22:54.359 --> 01:22:57.180
Hmm, I'm a fascinating fellow.

1254
01:22:57.720 --> 01:22:59.760
You got a fascinator.

1255
01:23:00.539 --> 01:23:01.859
Sorry.

1256
01:23:01.859 --> 01:23:02.880
That's what I'm wearing now.