WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:24:19 1 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:46.380 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that finds itself nostalgic for that abandoned hospital. 2 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:48.240 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:48.299 --> 00:00:49.200 I'm Peter. 4 00:00:49.259 --> 00:00:50.460 I'm Simon. 5 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:51.119 I'm Matthew. 6 00:00:51.179 --> 00:00:56.759 Well, it's my 44th birthday, and it's time for the broadcast of another Doctor Who episode. 7 00:00:56.820 --> 00:01:03.719 Specifically written to occupy the all important position between last week's episode and next week's episode. 8 00:01:03.780 --> 00:01:09.180 All these corridors look the same to us on our journey to the centre of the TARDAS. 9 00:01:33.659 --> 00:01:39.299 The great thing about season four is it's brilliant, and you love it, and you can watch it for five years. 10 00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:41.760 But you couldn't watch it for 17. 11 00:01:41.879 --> 00:01:42.719 Yeah. 12 00:01:42.780 --> 00:01:49.739 So I think, well, the reason why I approve of Journey to the centre of the TARDIS is it's an attempt to do something new. 13 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:55.620 They swing at the ball, you know, they knock a foul, but they're trying. 14 00:01:55.680 --> 00:02:00.900 And this is the difference between Doctor Who and Law and Order. 15 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:05.400 You're looking at a television show which is constantly trying to do something new. 16 00:02:05.459 --> 00:02:06.540 Yeah. 17 00:02:06.540 --> 00:02:13.680 And I think this is, um, while I'll even defend the 1st half of Kill the Moon. 18 00:02:13.740 --> 00:02:15.780 I'll defend all of Kilamoon. 19 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:16.680 I think it's superb. 20 00:02:16.740 --> 00:02:22.080 We'll get there It's trying to do something. 21 00:02:22.199 --> 00:02:32.819 And unfortunately, the author, the writer of this particular episode, he's made a few not great episodes, but they've all been good ideas. 22 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:33.719 Yeah. 23 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:44.520 I have the suspicion that what tends to happen is a lot of Doctor Who is written, they go into the showrunner's office and they get to the end of the meeting and they say, well, that's a great 40 minutes of television. 24 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:47.879 In the last 2 minutes, how are you going to solve the problem of the episode? 25 00:02:47.939 --> 00:02:49.319 Yeah. 26 00:02:49.379 --> 00:02:50.699 I've got an idea. 27 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:51.960 They can hit the reset button. 28 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:56.340 I appreciate what it's trying to do this episode. 29 00:02:56.400 --> 00:03:00.539 I think I'm on board with the idea, but I don't think it works. 30 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:03.539 And I think that's because it comes off as less interesting than it should be. 31 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:06.240 The TARDIS should be a place of wonder. 32 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:10.259 And here it's just not, it's enterprise space corridors. 33 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:16.199 And so it needed to be less of the pros and more of the poetic, I think. 34 00:03:16.259 --> 00:03:18.539 There are occasional attempts. 35 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:26.759 It reminds me, you know, that opening scene of Mask of Mandraga. where we just get a glimpse of the boot cupboard. 36 00:03:26.819 --> 00:03:30.360 You know, we open the door and there's that sort of CSO'd, what is it? 37 00:03:30.419 --> 00:03:33.240 It's like some regency ballroom with a pair of... 38 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:34.860 Yeah, that's right. 39 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:38.099 And we see the pool, which just looks incredible. 40 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:41.280 We see, yeah, the library. 41 00:03:41.340 --> 00:03:45.000 There's an amazing telescope thing in a sort of conservatory and stuff. 42 00:03:45.060 --> 00:03:48.180 There are some good visuals, but they're really very brief. 43 00:03:48.300 --> 00:04:02.520 And I remember, I don't think I've watched this one all that often, but the room with the Eye of Harmony in it is vastly less impressive than my memory of it was. 44 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:04.860 It's just a gantry with some chroma key. 45 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:05.219 Yeah. 46 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:06.300 Even it's okay. 47 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:07.259 It is okay. 48 00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:11.639 I mean, can I take issue with the fact that I don't think the visual is very impressive? 49 00:04:11.699 --> 00:04:23.819 I think what we do get is a bit of a deficit of imagination in bringing the Tartars to life, because if you're going to set a story inside the Tartars, you want it to be fabulous and fantastic. 50 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:30.300 You want to be surprised by what you see and you want it to be whimsical, like the aforementioned enormous boot cupboard. 51 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:33.839 Whereas what we get is actually just space corridors. 52 00:04:33.899 --> 00:04:37.379 They look like any Star Trek Voyage space corridors and they're lit the same way. 53 00:04:37.500 --> 00:04:39.240 They got the red alert lighting going on. 54 00:04:39.300 --> 00:04:42.959 They've got bits of the wall sort of shattered over the, over the corridor. 55 00:04:43.019 --> 00:04:54.540 But the brief moments that we get of the library and the observatory and the swimming pool are actually just kind of stock standard Victoria slash Harry Potter designs. 56 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:57.060 There's nothing, there's nothing very Doctor Who about it. 57 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:04.680 Yeah, I mean, even though I have issue with most of the modern versions of the console room, you know, I prefer the classic era. 58 00:05:04.740 --> 00:05:07.800 Regardless of that, it doesn't look like anything else you've ever seen. 59 00:05:07.860 --> 00:05:11.160 Whereas you're right, the corridors just look like you could be honest. 60 00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:17.399 I keep thinking, oh, we're on the other people's spaceship, you know, the brothers spaceship or something. you have to sort of remember. 61 00:05:17.459 --> 00:05:19.079 Oh, actually, no, this is supposed to be the Tartars. 62 00:05:19.139 --> 00:05:21.959 And it needed to be done a lot more interestingly. 63 00:05:22.019 --> 00:05:22.620 You're right. 64 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:24.959 More boot cupboards and fewer corridors. 65 00:05:25.019 --> 00:05:35.040 Even though I love, you know, I loved wandering around the Tartis in the classic series, whether it's Lagopolis or even bits of like, you know, when you're in the visitation and you go to see, you know, Tegan Niss's bedroom and all that kind of stuff. 66 00:05:35.100 --> 00:05:36.660 We kind of lived for that. 67 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:38.220 I live for that. 68 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:47.040 That season 18 thing where Romana has a bedroom and then Adric, the following year has, you know, the bedroom set and Nissa and Tegan have their bedroom and so on. 69 00:05:47.100 --> 00:05:48.660 Like all of that is really fun. 70 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:55.560 I think the new series has kind of shied away from it because it doesn't need the padding in quite the same way. 71 00:05:55.620 --> 00:06:00.360 So we've had what, 2 stories that have had Tartus corridors in them? 72 00:06:00.420 --> 00:06:01.079 Yes. 73 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:02.220 It's just the doctor's wife and this. 74 00:06:02.339 --> 00:06:04.980 Yeah, but you can't compare this to the doctor's wife. 75 00:06:05.100 --> 00:06:05.579 No, you can't. 76 00:06:05.699 --> 00:06:09.899 No, but I do think the doctor's wife corridors were also a low point of that episode. 77 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:14.819 Yes, that's the least interesting point of the episode, but there's less of them, so I kind of forgive it more. 78 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:18.180 But that's also the difference between this and the doctor's wife. 79 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:29.399 The doctor's wife is let down by the same space corridors as this episode is, but the doctor's wife's conception of the TARDIS has that whimsical quality to it, which this doesn't. 80 00:06:29.459 --> 00:06:34.560 This is a primarily technological vision of the TARDIS rather than a lyrical one, I think. 81 00:06:34.620 --> 00:06:39.899 I think, though, you know, it does operate on a kind of magical principle in some senses. 82 00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:47.459 At least there's that sense where the TARDIS does have an opinion about Clara, we're building on the stuff that we say. 83 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:50.879 So do I. Pretty much the same opinion, I think. 84 00:06:50.939 --> 00:06:57.360 And we have that thing of her creating versions of the console room in order to keep the people safe. 85 00:06:57.420 --> 00:07:05.459 And I also think that weird architectural configuration thing, which is like a tree, it reminds me. 86 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:06.540 Yeah, I think it is. 87 00:07:06.660 --> 00:07:12.120 It reminded me a little bit of that sort of cherry tree and flux that Tech Taun was hanging around underneath. 88 00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:18.540 But I thought that was an attempt to make the technology of the Tartars seems strange. 89 00:07:18.540 --> 00:07:20.759 And she does react to it. 90 00:07:20.819 --> 00:07:23.519 So the TARDIS is still kind of personified. 91 00:07:23.579 --> 00:07:35.879 There are some visually striking moments in this episode, so that room really works, that Christmas tree architectural configuration room, and also the exploded engine is obviously a very arresting image. 92 00:07:35.939 --> 00:07:37.920 So there are stabs at it. 93 00:07:37.980 --> 00:07:40.860 I just, I think they're approaching it from the wrong angle. 94 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:46.680 It needs to be cloister rooms and referring back to the invasion of time that you mentioned in the intro, Nathan. 95 00:07:46.740 --> 00:07:49.139 I know that it was pilloried at the time and since. 96 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:51.600 But if we're going to visit the inside of the TARDIS. 97 00:07:51.660 --> 00:08:00.660 I want exposed brickwork and old hospital corridors and things which have been repurposed on an apparently random basis. 98 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:03.060 I think that's more interesting than space corridors. 99 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:20.220 I thought it was striking, actually, and I actually rewound it slightly to make sure I hadn't missed something, just about the 1st door that Clara goes to after the opening credits, is a wooden door surrounded by stone that leads into the library, and I did like that. 100 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:34.919 And I guess the cloister room in Lagopolis, which is pretty great because it's, you know, it's fibreglass subbing in for stone, but it's still got the roundels in the, like there's something fun about it. 101 00:08:34.980 --> 00:08:36.899 Where were the roundlers in this episode, Nathan? 102 00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:38.580 Where were the roundors? 103 00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:39.960 my constant question. 104 00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:46.500 I mean, are the space corridors, I mean, is Piquo designing this? 105 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:53.100 So the space corridors do take elements from that lower outside section. 106 00:08:53.220 --> 00:08:54.539 Oh, it's consistent with the console room. 107 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:58.080 Set, but it's just doesn't feel tartacy is the problem. 108 00:08:58.139 --> 00:08:58.980 No, it doesn't. 109 00:08:59.100 --> 00:09:00.179 They're too small. 110 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:01.559 Like they're not. 111 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:02.340 They are too short. 112 00:09:02.460 --> 00:09:03.659 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 113 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:09.419 I can't imagine, you know, Tom Baker not hitting his head on the kind of the doorways and things. 114 00:09:09.539 --> 00:09:14.220 But again, it goes back to Star Trek because it has like on the enterprise in Next Generation. 115 00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:16.860 It has those angled sections of corridors. 116 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:18.360 So nothing is ever very long. 117 00:09:18.419 --> 00:09:22.860 All you have is a section of corridor, which then planes away to the right and you can't see what's beyond it. 118 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:24.659 And it's a bit bog standard. 119 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:26.700 And cheap and cheap. 120 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:30.419 Was this the cheap episode, quote unquote? 121 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:31.019 we know? 122 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:31.919 don't know. 123 00:09:31.980 --> 00:09:35.639 It definitely looks like it was an attempt to be the cheap episode. 124 00:09:35.700 --> 00:09:36.299 Yeah. 125 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:39.059 Sometimes they tend a cheap episode and it backfires. 126 00:09:39.059 --> 00:09:40.500 It's really expensive. 127 00:09:40.500 --> 00:09:41.639 Carnival of monsters. 128 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:44.159 Was that supposed to be cheap? 129 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:10.139 So maybe the TARDIS doesn't come off all that well, what do we think of the 3 guest stars? 130 00:10:10.500 --> 00:10:18.720 Oh, the 3 guest stars, um, the good attempts, the characterisation is incredibly all over the place. 131 00:10:18.779 --> 00:10:23.519 I mean, your brother's just been brutally murdered and you've heard him scream and you don't care. 132 00:10:23.580 --> 00:10:30.000 Yet your other brother is slightly injured and you're suddenly, desperately unhappy about it. 133 00:10:30.059 --> 00:10:35.340 Why don't you care that your brother's just been brutally murdered and you've heard him being brutally murdered. 134 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:36.059 Yeah. 135 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:41.100 I think, like, I think Gregory is pretty good, and he's the main brother. 136 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:43.919 The older one is giving a very strange performance. 137 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:46.919 And I think Tricky is okay. 138 00:10:46.980 --> 00:10:49.139 But I mean, what's the arc? 139 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:49.740 What do they learn? 140 00:10:49.860 --> 00:10:52.200 Well, nothing because there's a reset match? 141 00:10:52.259 --> 00:10:52.740 That's right. 142 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:54.059 That's true. 143 00:10:54.059 --> 00:10:57.480 No, they all retain, everyone retains some impression of what's happening. 144 00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:00.360 And we'll come to that, I think, because that might be important. 145 00:11:00.539 --> 00:11:14.700 But at the beginning, we see a photo of the family and it's torn and it's the father and the 2 brothers and Tricky's been torn out of the photo because they're doing this elaborate stupid prank. 146 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:22.679 And then when we go back, he doesn't quite say, oh, actually, sorry about all that Android thing that's sort of a bit crap. 147 00:11:22.740 --> 00:11:30.480 So he doesn't do that, but the photo isn't torn and Tricky's in the photo and Gregor is a little bit kinder to him. 148 00:11:30.659 --> 00:11:34.679 But it's never actually specified that they're not still pranking him. 149 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:35.940 No, no, it's not. 150 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:37.379 No, it's actually quite clear that they are. 151 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:38.399 Yeah, yeah. 152 00:11:38.460 --> 00:11:42.659 But there is a line, the doctor's line about having a shred of decency. 153 00:11:42.779 --> 00:11:45.600 Gregor actually says that line himself. 154 00:11:45.659 --> 00:11:48.960 So I guess he's learned something from it. 155 00:11:49.019 --> 00:11:53.460 But it is like it's just weird and implausible, isn't it? 156 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:56.639 Like you trick someone into believing they're an android. 157 00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:59.580 Like what, what, how are we supposed to feel about that? 158 00:11:59.639 --> 00:12:01.980 Is that a good thing, a bad thing? 159 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:04.860 Well, it's an incredibly cruel thing to have done. 160 00:12:04.980 --> 00:12:10.500 But he's had an accident and his eyes have been replaced and he's lost his memory, which I don't know, it must be a thing that can happen when you're in a space accident. 161 00:12:10.679 --> 00:12:16.200 And they decided we're going to pretend you're an Android and for some reason because he really has lost his memory completely. 162 00:12:16.259 --> 00:12:17.100 He accepts this. 163 00:12:17.100 --> 00:12:20.940 And yes, he obviously has organic bits, you know, the actual, that sort of rubbish. 164 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:23.220 It is just this sort of incredibly cruel thing. 165 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:29.580 But I think it's just a substitute for the character that's being bullied all their life or everything that we remember. 166 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:38.759 And I think we're supposed to, and I feel like from, you know, that that's the audience surrogate character, at least for a certain style of fan, which I associate myself with. 167 00:12:38.820 --> 00:12:45.899 And so I actually quite strongly identified with Tricky and really felt for him and the sort of the journey that happens. 168 00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:49.860 And I think afterwards, you know, when we're in the new present after the reset button. 169 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:54.059 Yes, they're still ribbing him back being an Android, but he knows that he isn't an Android, if you know what I mean. 170 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:58.799 Like it's sort of, it's like it's become a joke rather than a bullying thing. 171 00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:02.159 And, you know, and he is the most interesting one. 172 00:13:02.220 --> 00:13:07.740 I mean, you know, as you said, Gregor is kind of the generic nasty leader guy. 173 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:11.700 The other brother is the one I have got the names around the right way, haven't they? 174 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:12.179 That's the problem. 175 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:13.559 I can't even remember which name to use. 176 00:13:13.620 --> 00:13:15.840 Yeah, I think that's a problem too, isn't it? 177 00:13:15.899 --> 00:13:18.240 Bram's name is used in dialogue once, I think. 178 00:13:18.299 --> 00:13:19.559 Bram's the one who gets killed. 179 00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:22.620 No, yeah, yeah, the older Dumber one. 180 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:24.720 Yeah, but it's funny because of that. 181 00:13:24.779 --> 00:13:29.639 And what you said, Matthew, about them not really reacting to that, I sort of forget that he's actually a brother. 182 00:13:29.700 --> 00:13:33.059 I thought that there are 2 brothers and there's this other bloke that they've got. 183 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:33.899 You know what I mean? 184 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:35.639 Like this other employee, who's the grunt? 185 00:13:35.700 --> 00:13:36.539 Yeah. 186 00:13:36.539 --> 00:13:41.879 I remember when you said space accident earlier, I think that's the problem in that they're a bit space characterish. 187 00:13:41.940 --> 00:13:43.980 They don't act like normal people. 188 00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:44.700 It's completely wonderful. 189 00:13:44.700 --> 00:13:46.139 Like family would act. 190 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:53.639 And it is an incredibly cruel thing that they've done tricky, and yet they don't actually seem to be that sad about it when they're called on it. 191 00:13:53.700 --> 00:13:59.519 It is perfectly consistent with a lot of the many brother families that I met. 192 00:13:59.580 --> 00:14:04.139 I know, like the bullying is perfectly consistent with, you know, my cousins. 193 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:05.100 There's 4 of them. 194 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:07.440 I could see them doing that to the youngest brother. 195 00:14:07.500 --> 00:14:20.220 The problem is, of course, it is incredibly cruel, and it is consistent with the Middle Brothers character that, you know, he's he wants to be the captain, but he's just being overlooked, and so he's done this thing. 196 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:24.360 The problem, I think, is the single line about that accident. 197 00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:26.399 It comes at the end of the episode. 198 00:14:26.460 --> 00:14:28.860 It's very quickly moved on. 199 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:34.320 So you don't really get the sense through the episode of the character building and the reasons for it. 200 00:14:34.379 --> 00:14:39.600 It's just a lot of the problems with this episode are exposition rather than communication. 201 00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:51.299 But it comes back to that thing, which I often repeat, is that I don't think you can successfully do those kind of developed, or at least the kind of development that you're looking for, Nathan, they're in a 45 minute episode when you've got all this stuff going on. 202 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:57.720 I think to really feel like that there's been a journey, it needs to be told over a longer time frame. generally. 203 00:14:57.779 --> 00:15:02.879 Sometimes it can work, but too often it's thrown in like this and therefore it sort of feels a bit unsatisfying. 204 00:15:02.940 --> 00:15:03.480 Yeah. 205 00:15:03.539 --> 00:15:06.419 I think, look, there isn't a lot going on in this episode. 206 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:10.440 You know, they wander around some corridors and then hit a button and then stop. 207 00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:12.059 You know, there's not a lot happening. 208 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:19.919 And the, like, doing a better job of riding the brothers would have helped, I think, and all. 209 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:24.059 There's not going on, but there's not a lot going on urgently is the problem. 210 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:32.700 And because all the scenes are played with this sort of heightened urgency, it means that we're kind of doing all this marking time from a character point of view. 211 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:34.320 Yeah, which is understandable and fine. 212 00:15:34.379 --> 00:15:36.600 But I think the thing with tricky, which is great. 213 00:15:36.659 --> 00:15:41.759 You know, he is the younger brother and they've cast an actor who is smaller than the others and more boyish looking than the others. 214 00:15:41.820 --> 00:15:44.820 And, you know, you know, dad said, you were always the smart one. 215 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:46.980 You were always the one he left the ship to you and so on like that. 216 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:56.759 And I think there is something about the younger brother, younger child, being the one that's actually grows up to be the leader of them. 217 00:15:56.820 --> 00:16:10.259 You know, the episode's not saying anything very deep, but it does have something basic to say about the fact that Tricky, who is being presented as an android, is actually the most human and the most emotional amongst them. is trying to say something. 218 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:11.639 It's just not going very deep. 219 00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:16.860 Yeah, I think the episode has a significant problem with law of conservation of detail. 220 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:19.500 It's trying to say a lot. 221 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:25.200 Like, I watched this again last night, and then the 1st 26 minutes, it's fine, Clara, and there's a lot going on. 222 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:31.139 And the next 26 minutes, it's, ozotardis is about to explode, how do we stop that? 223 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:33.000 And there's too many plot points. 224 00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:34.799 Too many plot points. 225 00:16:34.860 --> 00:16:39.480 When you add in the eyes and the characterisations in the ship and all the rest of it, You're right. 226 00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:42.659 It does not have enough time to deal with all that sufficiently. 227 00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:45.720 The other problem is the sense of urgency. 228 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:55.440 Like, at the very start, Clara opens a door that's on fire and that has no purpose in the episode, except to demonstrate that Clara is one an idiot. 229 00:16:55.500 --> 00:17:02.700 And two, you know, there's a real threat here, but it's, and three, she has the superhuman ability to outrun fireballs. 230 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:06.900 Well, yeah, she is the primary character. 231 00:17:07.259 --> 00:17:09.180 She's immune. 232 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:11.819 Walks through fire, you know, that kind of thing. 233 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.779 And the total inconsistency about how dangerous the eye of harmony is. 234 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:22.380 It goes from being, oh, if you're in here for more than a few moments, your skin will blister and peel to, oh, well, you can be in here for minutes. 235 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:23.039 Yeah. 236 00:17:23.099 --> 00:17:25.259 Yeah, they didn't think that one through. 237 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:32.819 You like the fact that now every TARDIS has its own eye of harmony rather than it being a single eye of harmony, wherever it is under the monoptagon or somewhere. 238 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.299 I thought it was, I thought that's the one that Omega collapses. 239 00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:37.079 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 240 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:39.960 Yeah, but it's actually in that big kind of... 241 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:41.579 It's the eye of harmony. 242 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:42.660 Under that... 243 00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:44.759 I think we've had a few eyes of high school thing. 244 00:17:44.940 --> 00:17:45.299 Yes, yes. 245 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:46.259 Crystal. 246 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:47.460 Well... 247 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:48.480 It's wood. 248 00:17:49.259 --> 00:17:55.859 But then there's The Eye of Harmony in the Tardis in the telly movie, and that's where that idea comes from. 249 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:57.059 Of course. 250 00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:58.079 Yes, yes, yes. 251 00:17:58.140 --> 00:17:59.220 So it's already it's already happened. 252 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:01.859 But, I mean, back in the day, in the 60s, 70s, whatever. 253 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:09.599 The idea of there being a collapsing star in the heart of every TARTIS would have been too far-fetched. whilst obviously it's sort of too far-fetched. 254 00:18:09.660 --> 00:18:19.140 Now, we have a greater conception of the true size of the universe and how, you know, one race capturing a few black holes here and there is nothing compared to the mass of the universe. 255 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:20.460 I do like the idea. 256 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:26.640 I think there's something that's when that sort of magical conception of how the TARDIS works. 257 00:18:26.700 --> 00:18:29.819 You know, there's a dying star fuelling each one. 258 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:36.960 Like, if it can be more preposterous and less, like, it has a warp drive or something like that or, you know, tacky on things. 259 00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:38.039 That's all very boring. 260 00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:40.440 But if it can be a little bit more lyrical. 261 00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:42.480 I think that it should definitely. 262 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:46.079 But also it gives a sense of how much energy is required to power this thing. 263 00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:48.720 And, you know, it's like a Dyson sphere. 264 00:18:48.779 --> 00:18:53.039 You know, it's taking the entire output of a collapsing slash exploding star. 265 00:18:53.099 --> 00:18:54.779 No, it's nice. 266 00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:57.180 It's the midi-chlorian effect, isn't it? 267 00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:59.220 You don't want things explained too much. 268 00:19:00.539 --> 00:19:01.740 It just works. 269 00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:02.339 Yeah. 270 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:12.240 I have a problem with the casting. 271 00:19:12.299 --> 00:19:12.960 Right? 272 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:21.059 So, for most of its run, Doctor Who just cast white actors and often white male actors. 273 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:27.240 Yes, yeah, very frequently. and here, again, we have another story where there's only one woman and it's Clara. 274 00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:31.319 But here we've cast 3 brothers. 275 00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:42.779 They're all black actors, but I think that there is a bit of an issue about sensitivity around who you cast to do what. 276 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:47.039 And so if you're casting 3 brothers who carjack the TARDIS. 277 00:19:47.220 --> 00:19:48.900 I don't know. 278 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:49.619 I don't know. 279 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:50.339 I don't know. 280 00:19:50.400 --> 00:20:08.400 It worries me a little bit that this is something that happens going forward where the show is kind of going, oh, we are colourblind casting and all of that's very good, but then they don't kind of realise the implications or the stereotypes that they might inadvertently be perpetuating with the sort of casting that they do. 281 00:20:08.460 --> 00:20:17.400 And I think maybe this once it doesn't constitute a pattern, but like in the next season, we will get a bit more of that, I think. 282 00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:20.640 And I think it might be a problem. 283 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:24.480 Yeah, look, I'm very sympathetic to it. 284 00:20:24.539 --> 00:20:25.980 The view or the thought. 285 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:30.359 I'm The reason why I'm not sort of 100% on board with it. 286 00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:44.579 I recognise that it's a potential problem, but I also recognise that there's an awful lot of people cast, you know, in Doctor Who in the modern era who are people of colour or women or whatever, and there's much more diverse. 287 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:49.140 So it makes up for the fact, otherwise we need to sort of end up with 3 white brothers. 288 00:20:49.259 --> 00:20:51.480 Or maybe make one of them a sister at least. 289 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:52.440 And that could have worked. 290 00:20:52.500 --> 00:20:55.799 Maybe the Android could have been assistant, quite unquote tricky, could have been a sister. 291 00:20:55.859 --> 00:21:03.299 But I don't know, I get what you're saying, but I think it's, because they're not, I mean, they're operating what is effectively an independent business. 292 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:05.880 They're not slaves. 293 00:21:05.940 --> 00:21:10.140 They're not they're not beholden to some large evil intergalactic corporation. 294 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:11.759 They've got their own autonomy. 295 00:21:11.819 --> 00:21:18.660 And yes, there is something a bit dodgy in some of the practises they're doing. you know, crossing legal boundaries. 296 00:21:18.779 --> 00:21:22.440 I think saying that they're carjacking the TARDIS is probably a bit much. 297 00:21:22.500 --> 00:21:23.579 Maybe, maybe. 298 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:38.339 I think there is one particular scene where I found it super awkward and that's Matt being white and as posh as humanly possible, kind of ordering them around like they're not very smart and... 299 00:21:38.339 --> 00:21:39.299 But that's the doctor, though. 300 00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:40.259 Yeah, yeah, I know. 301 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:44.700 But you've got to, it's still kind of looks bad. 302 00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:47.220 Yeah, it's not a massive problem, I don't think. 303 00:21:47.339 --> 00:21:48.539 But it's a slight problem. 304 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:58.500 It's a problem of optics and it's problem of not thinking through to the very end result of what you're putting on screen, I think. 305 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:05.099 And like you say, it will, it's not a pattern and no one thinks that there's any kind of wrong agenda here or anything like that. 306 00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:11.039 But it will sort of, when we come on in a couple of seasons time to Rigsy in Flatline. 307 00:22:11.099 --> 00:22:18.420 I think that's where it starts to become more of a problem because as far as I'm aware, that character was written to be was written colourblind. 308 00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:23.279 Like there's no there's no indication in the script that you should be a particular race or anything. 309 00:22:23.339 --> 00:22:26.640 And yet he was cast black and you think, why? 310 00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:28.259 Because he's graffiti artist? 311 00:22:28.380 --> 00:22:29.339 Yeah, yeah. 312 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:33.599 It's difficult for us to talk about this because we're all wise. 313 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:42.359 But we have, like, have had some experience of representation in Doctor Who, where we would kind of try and grab the little crumbs that we had. 314 00:22:42.420 --> 00:22:44.160 Oh, you know, Harrison Chase is gay. 315 00:22:46.380 --> 00:22:56.640 And then you sort of become aware of when, you know, gay people or lesbians or just generally queer people appear in Doctor Who and how they're treated and things. 316 00:22:56.700 --> 00:22:58.799 Brutally murdered over the soup. 317 00:22:58.859 --> 00:23:00.660 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 318 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:14.279 Yeah, I think generally, Doctor Who has done, even in the modern era, even under Davies and Moffatt and Chipnall, there's been very little gate mail representation, and generally the gay men don't tend to survive the episode. 319 00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:17.400 But you kind of think... 320 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:18.599 A lot of people don't survive... 321 00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:19.140 Well, that's true. 322 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:19.980 You know what I mean? 323 00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:26.519 This is what I suppose what I'm saying as well, is that if you, I mean, you know, Harrison Chase, you know, being red is gay. 324 00:23:26.579 --> 00:23:32.099 I mean, having the villain being gay in that era and even now is quite a normal thing. 325 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:36.180 You know, gay people either get brutally killed or they die of age or they're the villain, right? 326 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:40.019 And even, you know, you could argue that Count Scarlione sort of reads a bit gay. 327 00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:40.980 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 328 00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:43.859 I mean, you know, any gay man would have that would have... 329 00:23:43.980 --> 00:23:45.000 Oh, his wife is very discreet. 330 00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:47.880 Exactly. would have her as a wife. 331 00:23:47.940 --> 00:23:55.740 But, you know, I mean, I, I, look, thinking of the representation thing, you know, I don't necessarily get tired of the arch gay villain, you know? 332 00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:56.400 No, I love it. 333 00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:58.680 And I don't get... 334 00:23:58.740 --> 00:24:01.440 No, I just I merely aspire to that. 335 00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:02.640 I merely aspire. 336 00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:03.000 Please. 337 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:09.660 You know, and so it's kind of like, does that mean you can't cast a black person as a graffiti artist? 338 00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:11.880 Can't cast a black person, someone who's doing a card? 339 00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:12.359 you know what I mean? 340 00:24:12.539 --> 00:24:31.319 But this is the problem with which I find with the kind of the discussion more broadly is that if you're going to have proper diverse casting, it means that sometimes, and even often when you've got the key central characters being the doctor and companion, these people are going to play roles which historically have been their stereotype. 341 00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:33.119 Yes, no, absolutely you're right. 342 00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:42.900 And I think the benefits of casting 3 actors of colour in this episode far outweigh whatever, you know, you might look at and say, well, you know, that can be a bit awkward sometimes. 343 00:24:42.960 --> 00:25:05.579 And I think we probably moved beyond in representation, the idea that to take the example of gay men on screen, where the gay man used to be the villain or the AIDS victim or whatever, we've moved far enough forward in representation that the gay man can actually be everything and all of those things and doesn't have to be the virtuous best friend or the comedy sidekick or whatever. 344 00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:08.400 And so, I think it's a transitional issue. 345 00:25:08.460 --> 00:25:09.599 Do you know what I mean? 346 00:25:09.660 --> 00:25:28.619 Eventually, once if, you know, we do gain proper amounts of diversity and, you know, you've seen the last few years of Doctor Who improved both in front of and behind the camera enormously in that respect, then I think maybe we could be a bit more relaxed about it. 347 00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:32.880 But I just think maybe at this point it's something that we need to kind of think about a little bit. 348 00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:34.859 You're talking about the point where this was being made. 349 00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:57.240 Yeah, maybe, I mean, even then, I think there was still lots of, I mean, I'm not going to do an account because I don't know, but and I'm sure it would be unfavourable to people of colour and so on, but because it would be too low or too many kind of stereotypical roles, but nevertheless, I still think even at this point, I think it's not an issue and it's an accident. 350 00:25:57.299 --> 00:26:06.180 And I get what you're saying, Peter, that sometimes, you know, they're not thinking through, um, they haven't thought through how it might end up on screen at the end of the day when you've got a complete program. 351 00:26:06.299 --> 00:26:11.579 But I still think at the end of the day, I'd much rather see 3 black actors cast in this. 352 00:26:11.579 --> 00:26:12.180 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 353 00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:13.740 In these home. 354 00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:14.339 The not. 355 00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:28.259 And I think that's where the discussion starts to become unhelpful because if you've got to 2nd guess the situation so much, that I think actually becomes a big problem in terms of actually achieving that representation because they're 2nd guessing themselves too much. 356 00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:33.119 You know, the casting gets so wound up in it that they can't just cast people. 357 00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:38.339 And I think I'd like to think that they've moved to a point where they're just casting people. 358 00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:39.900 And I think it's been like that for quite a while. 359 00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:42.839 No, I agree with you. 100% on board with what you're saying. 360 00:26:42.900 --> 00:26:45.119 It's a very slight tone deafness. 361 00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:46.680 It is not a reason not to do it. 362 00:26:46.740 --> 00:26:50.160 I think this would be a worse episode if it was 3 White Brothers. 363 00:26:50.220 --> 00:26:50.759 Sure. 364 00:26:50.819 --> 00:27:01.859 I do think, though, that with series 7 and 8, we do get fairly close to a pattern, there is quite a bit of carelessness and we will get to that when we talk about it next year, I think. 365 00:27:01.980 --> 00:27:04.319 And you're right, what you said before. 366 00:27:04.380 --> 00:27:06.599 A single incident is not a pattern. 367 00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:12.599 But there are, and there are, you know, people, but one would hope, an overarching view of the casting. 368 00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:29.339 But it is possible to get, and I do recognise that maybe we do step over a line in the coming years, but even then, I suppose what I'm saying is I'm prepared to forgive that, and I'm prepared to understand that rather than criticise it, if you know. 369 00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:30.599 It's because it's coming from a good place. 370 00:27:30.660 --> 00:27:35.400 It's coming from a desire to increase the representation of people of colour on screen and dog too. 371 00:27:35.460 --> 00:27:35.940 That a good thing. 372 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:37.200 Or just television more broadly. 373 00:27:37.259 --> 00:27:45.539 And we've had do have and will continue to have lots of sympathetic hero characters who are people of colour, queer, whatever minority we're talking about. 374 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:50.220 There is a distinct like of Asian characters within Doctor Who still. 375 00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:54.059 Yes, there's South Asian in the new series. 376 00:27:54.119 --> 00:27:56.640 There was one episode. 377 00:27:56.700 --> 00:28:00.480 I can't remember which episode it was, but the Indian Space Command was. 378 00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:03.660 Dinosaurs on a spaceship. 379 00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:04.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 380 00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:07.259 But very little East Asian. 381 00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:07.500 Yeah. 382 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:09.359 Very little East Asian. 383 00:28:09.420 --> 00:28:12.839 But that's a reflection of the population makeup of the UK, remember? 384 00:28:12.900 --> 00:28:23.940 If the program was being made here, you'd have a lot of East Asian faces and probably fewer African faces because of, you know, the mix of the population in Australia, you know, it is what it is. 385 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:27.359 That is actually the piece of the diversity puzzle in Doctor Who, which is sort of missing. 386 00:28:40.980 --> 00:28:44.339 We've discussed various weaknesses of the episode. 387 00:28:44.460 --> 00:28:49.319 I think one of the main weaknesses is that it is all just disjointed. 388 00:28:49.380 --> 00:28:58.200 It's a series of set pieces or moments, which don't necessarily string together for me in a way that's satisfying. 389 00:28:58.259 --> 00:29:04.859 And you've got weird things like, you know, the big kaplunk roads that shove in and, you know, threaten to take Tricky's arm off. 390 00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:06.180 I mean, what the hell was that about? 391 00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:07.859 I couldn't even work that out. 392 00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:12.900 So something was failing and then Yeah, so the rods were going to expand or explode or something. 393 00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:16.980 It's explained because I have the advantage of watching this late last night. 394 00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:19.740 I watched it yesterday and I still don't understand. 395 00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:21.900 It doesn't make sense. 396 00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:25.619 The doctor says all of the fuel is emptied out of the tank. 397 00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:30.720 What happens when the fuel rods are left exposed, they expand and explode? 398 00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:31.680 They shatter. 399 00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:40.980 The idea is somehow there is, it's like a nuclear reactor and there's fuel rods being blown out of the engine which they're under and that's what's going to the walls. 400 00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:44.400 But then that's completely contradicted in the next 2 scenes. 401 00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:50.339 So it's just in trying to find the opportunity for the scene. you're talking about. 402 00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:51.599 Yes, yes. and that's my criticism. 403 00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:58.559 It's like Sigourney Weaver in Galaxy Quest when they have to go through the great big hammer things that are going, and, you know, Sigourney Weaver says, this doesn't make any sense. 404 00:29:58.619 --> 00:30:07.920 It's that referential thing that you have things like this in Doctor Who or Star Trek, whatever, which I just, that actually makes no logical sense as to how this machine. 405 00:30:07.980 --> 00:30:16.380 I mean, I know the tarnis is a fantastical and wonderful and magical machine, but these great big rods coming in does not for me match that. 406 00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:25.259 So episode 2 of the new series reminded me so much of Galaxy Quest because you've got the doctor running through giant bags. 407 00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:25.980 Oh, yes, yes. 408 00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:28.079 Yes, yes, yes. to press the button. 409 00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:28.680 There you go. 410 00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:30.000 Turn the thing off. 411 00:30:30.059 --> 00:30:30.359 Yes. 412 00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:32.519 Why is this Doctor Who thing to do? 413 00:30:32.579 --> 00:30:35.700 And I thought it made for some really good visuals. 414 00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:40.619 And I definitely jumped more than once when the things went through the wall. 415 00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:42.960 I thought it had gone through his arm, but what happens? 416 00:30:43.019 --> 00:30:44.039 How does it trap his arm? 417 00:30:44.099 --> 00:30:45.779 No, it just holds his arm. 418 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:46.559 Holds him arm. 419 00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:48.480 He's in pain because he's not gone through his arm. 420 00:30:48.539 --> 00:30:49.019 Okay, yeah. 421 00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:52.440 But I think that's the problem what we were talking about earlier, Simon. 422 00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:54.119 No, it goes through him. 423 00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:57.359 No, no, I don't think it does because there's no blunt or anything. 424 00:30:57.420 --> 00:30:59.759 But it doesn't have an injury. 425 00:30:59.819 --> 00:31:01.619 But no, because he said, cut my arm off. 426 00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:03.299 Yeah, yeah, the whole thing. 427 00:31:03.299 --> 00:31:06.299 No, I think it's like a sort of 87 hours or whatever it was called. 428 00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:10.380 It's like that guy who got trapped, the rock climber guy who had to cut his own arm off to his back. 429 00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:13.019 I think that's what the... 430 00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:14.460 Because he doesn't seem to be wounded. 431 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:18.240 He just seems to be in pain and it never gets mentioned again. 432 00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:19.079 Do you know what I mean? 433 00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:22.980 Like he's just sort of holding it vaguely in the next scene, but that's about it. 434 00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:28.319 I think it goes back to what we were saying earlier, that it's been a bit reverse engineered. 435 00:31:28.380 --> 00:31:32.220 They need some peril and so they're going to have some things flying through the walls that are dangerous. 436 00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:33.119 Inventive peril. 437 00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:39.000 And so they then talked about the fact that the TARDIS has fuel rods and they're empty and you sort of think this isn't the enterprise. 438 00:31:39.059 --> 00:31:39.779 Yeah, no, exactly. 439 00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:45.599 That's why it was just not Dr. Huey in terms of, I mean, great big fans in the end of the world. 440 00:31:45.660 --> 00:31:45.900 Yes. 441 00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:47.220 They were keeping it cool. 442 00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:48.599 Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. 443 00:31:48.660 --> 00:31:57.180 Unless we forget that in the end of the world, Rose is also trapped in a room where there's bits of sunlight coming through spearing through the window at her. 444 00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:04.500 Yes, but we're going for, obviously, a surreal style of story where, you know, the architectural configuration of the TARDIS is spontaneously changing. 445 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:09.720 You've got these ghost states of people in slightly different console rooms or time streams or whatever the hell it is. 446 00:32:09.779 --> 00:32:15.839 Those kind of things need to have internal logic for them to work so you can kind of follow what's going on. 447 00:32:15.900 --> 00:32:20.099 And I think they need to be sort of well-directed, which is harder when you're dealing with a lot of identical looking corridors. 448 00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:20.579 Yeah. 449 00:32:20.579 --> 00:32:23.519 So I suppose mine. when you have a good director. 450 00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:25.200 It's not well directed, is it? 451 00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:27.599 No, I think it's, well, it's not, it's just covered. 452 00:32:27.660 --> 00:32:40.380 And even then I don't even know whether it's covered because sometimes you're kind of going, you're not sure whether it's a trick of the, oh, where, you know, she's turned a corner and the whole thing's changed or whether it's just a bit of direction that's not quite... hasn't got quite right. 453 00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:46.859 Yeah, and for me, it sort of is on the wrong side of the line of making logical sense. 454 00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:47.759 It's not terrible. 455 00:32:47.819 --> 00:32:51.480 It's not a total mess, but it's just slightly on the wrong side of that. 456 00:32:51.539 --> 00:32:58.440 I can understand how all this is actually working in a way that doesn't require me to kind of retcon everything in my head. 457 00:32:58.500 --> 00:33:01.500 I'm also not convinced we need the zombie creatures. 458 00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:02.640 It would have been... 459 00:33:02.700 --> 00:33:04.019 I think we need monsters. 460 00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:05.220 I do think we need more. 461 00:33:05.339 --> 00:33:06.359 Well, no, I think that's the floor. 462 00:33:06.420 --> 00:33:09.720 I think someone has said we need monsters. 463 00:33:09.779 --> 00:33:12.180 And like the kaplunk rods. 464 00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:14.700 That's what's been inserted into the thing. 465 00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:17.279 And I don't know whether that actually for me adds to the peril. 466 00:33:17.339 --> 00:33:18.599 It makes no sense. 467 00:33:18.660 --> 00:33:29.160 It's your future states that have been somehow destroyed by the the idea is that they've been crispied by the Eye of Harmony. 468 00:33:29.220 --> 00:33:29.640 Yeah. 469 00:33:29.700 --> 00:33:32.099 But then they're running around the TARDIS trying to attack you. 470 00:33:32.220 --> 00:33:48.240 No, if they'd been running around the Tartars like seeking help. and you could clearly get this idea that they were seeking help, then maybe it would make sense, but they're just there for the peril. out of focus is zombie monster things that are chasing. 471 00:33:48.299 --> 00:33:51.420 I mean, I think they are invented peril, but I think we need it. 472 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:52.799 Otherwise the episode would be so empty. 473 00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:59.279 No, because, I mean, the problem is we just had the haunted house episode with Hyde, but if we pretend that that episode didn't happen. 474 00:33:59.339 --> 00:34:18.119 I think this episode would be so much better if it was done like a haunted house episode, that it was a bit slower, a bit more creepy, a bit darker, like basically more like the TARDIS is, you know, rather than kind of exploding everywhere, it's run out of power and it's dark and quiet and all that sort of thing rather than noisy, loud. 475 00:34:18.179 --> 00:34:18.599 Absolutely right. 476 00:34:18.659 --> 00:34:20.880 I think if you're going to do which kind of episode, that's what you want. 477 00:34:20.940 --> 00:34:30.719 Yes, and the scene which does work for that, the one scene which works is the one where Clara is in the library and the creature comes in behind her and she's hiding behind the bookcase that sort of springs out from behind. 478 00:34:30.780 --> 00:34:34.199 I think that works quite well, but it's an isolated instance. 479 00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:42.179 Is the problem that we're doing this in a story that's basically about we finally go into other rooms in the TARDIS. 480 00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:54.480 And if it had been more like the invasion of time, where some other story is going on, and incidentally we end up wandering around the Tartars, that that might have been better. 481 00:34:54.539 --> 00:34:55.860 So he would have had peril. 482 00:34:55.860 --> 00:35:04.619 That was organic rather than peril that was just kind of a bit silly, which is not, you know, it's not unknown as a phenomenon in Doctor Who. 483 00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:14.039 But it's one of those points I like to come back to, is that episodes one likes, for some reason, one gravitates too. there will be things wrong with them and inexplicably one can forgive them. 484 00:35:14.099 --> 00:35:19.199 And then there are episodes that you don't particularly like, which are, in other ways, flawless. 485 00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:23.460 And for some reason, you dismiss those things as, oh, well, you know, but that's just generic and blah, blah, blah. 486 00:35:23.579 --> 00:35:25.380 There is always a je ne sais quoi. 487 00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:29.579 And I think that that's what's missing from this episode is the je ne sais quoi that makes it special. 488 00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:34.679 The mistake was to go for the monsters because that was the imperative from the BBC. 489 00:35:34.739 --> 00:35:36.000 There shall always be monsters. 490 00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:39.179 I think it would have been much better if it had been the edge of destruction. 491 00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:44.219 And it had been the conflict between the characters and the doctor. 492 00:35:44.219 --> 00:35:49.500 And he does that brilliant speech of, oh, I've set the self-destruct, you have to save Clara. 493 00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:54.300 Otherwise, we're all dying, which is very Matt Smith, and he really acts brilliantly in this. 494 00:35:54.360 --> 00:36:01.380 There's some scenes there where he's just standing in the background and he, the camera loves him and he's really acting with his face. 495 00:36:01.380 --> 00:36:16.019 But I think you miss the opportunity to have the conflict between the characters, evolve the characters, drive the plot, and there's a point at the end where you're now discussing the impossible girl plot. 496 00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:22.679 And Clara says, oh, you're scaring me now more than anything else in the TARDIS, but she doesn't really act like it. 497 00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:27.360 And there is the ability there for Matt Smith to be truly terrifying. 498 00:36:27.420 --> 00:36:33.659 And there could have been that kind of thing where, you know, the question comes up, who are you, Clara? 499 00:36:33.719 --> 00:36:40.019 And now Clara's worried about doctor and she runs off and she gets herself into peril and blah, blah, blah. 500 00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:40.619 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 501 00:36:40.619 --> 00:36:45.000 I think this was shot quite early on and they don't quite have a handle on Clara yet. 502 00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:47.460 And so she's a little bit generic in this episode. 503 00:36:47.579 --> 00:37:00.300 And so those scenes with her, if you'd had Amy doing them or, you know, a really good companion like Donna or someone like that, they would have been quite magnetic, but she's just not quite there enough on screen to lead those scenes. 504 00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:02.699 It's a strange choice, I think. 505 00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:07.619 So we have these revelations about Clara. 506 00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:23.099 And they happen in this time loop episode where maybe they're forgotten, but we can't be sure because we know that the Van Balen boys have learned from this episode sort of sticks. 507 00:37:23.219 --> 00:37:27.900 But having the doctor, you know, Well the doctor remembers it all. 508 00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:28.920 Yeah, does he? 509 00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:29.639 Oh, yes. 510 00:37:29.699 --> 00:37:31.800 That's my interpretation at the end. 511 00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:32.460 He remembers everything. 512 00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:37.079 So the doctor knows that Clara's not evil and not trying to infiltrate his time or whatever. 513 00:37:37.139 --> 00:37:42.059 He knows that she's, for some other reason, there are multiple Claras listed in his history. 514 00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:48.000 I mean, we had the reveal in Hyde that she's just a normal person. 515 00:37:48.059 --> 00:37:52.139 That's what Emma tells the doctor at the end of Hyde. 516 00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:59.940 And it is that thing where Moffatt just goes for the obvious answer to the mystery is the correct one. 517 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:05.219 And because mysteries are fun but the reveals are often a bit disappointing. 518 00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:08.940 And, you know, I think this sort of works. 519 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:10.139 Like I don't mind it. 520 00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:23.699 It does mean that we are approaching Clara as a bit of an enigma and to have that happen in a season where the later episodes are being shot earlier when she doesn't have much of a handle on what she's going to be like. 521 00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:25.500 I think it is a problem for the character. 522 00:38:25.619 --> 00:38:28.380 And it's a bit for to doomsday. 523 00:38:28.619 --> 00:38:30.480 Not quite as bad. 524 00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:33.239 Well, that would be an achievement. 525 00:38:33.900 --> 00:38:36.360 Past the sodium. 526 00:38:36.420 --> 00:38:40.440 I think she's a bit of a peril monkey in this episode, Clara. 527 00:38:40.500 --> 00:38:45.900 She exists just to, you know, go up and open doors, which clearly shouldn't be opened and then outrun the fireball. 528 00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:59.340 And so there's not much to hang on the character, but also, and I will return to this point, this is the start of a problematic quality for Clara's character, and that is violent, aggressive Clara. 529 00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:04.019 So there is a scene in this where she hits the doctor multiple times and it's not fun. 530 00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:10.500 She's doing it because she's angry and she's quite an aggressive character and I think it's a problem and will return to that. 531 00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:12.840 I actually like that hit, I have to say. 532 00:39:12.900 --> 00:39:15.300 Yeah, she punches him in the shoulder. 533 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:21.659 I don't think that tips over the, it doesn't just yet, but she's clearly doing it because she's angry. 534 00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:22.380 She's lashing out. 535 00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:24.000 She's angry because she's angry. 536 00:39:24.059 --> 00:39:24.900 That's the only reason. 537 00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:26.760 And the doctor recoils from it. 538 00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:29.400 And she's not sorry about it. 539 00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:35.039 And she will become increasingly verbally and physically aggressive, culminating in the line. 540 00:39:35.099 --> 00:39:41.039 Say that again, and I'll slap you so hard, you'll regenerate, and I find a problematic quality with her character. 541 00:39:41.099 --> 00:39:47.639 Moffatt does sometimes have cracks about the doctor where he's so irritating that people punch him in the face. 542 00:39:47.699 --> 00:39:53.099 You know, like people will say, oh, and before they left, you know, did they smack you in the head or anything like that? 543 00:39:53.159 --> 00:40:04.380 Like Moffatt is aware that his doctor is irritating and sometimes expresses it through comedy lines, not like the one you mentioned, but through comedy kind of hilarious lines. 544 00:40:04.500 --> 00:40:06.300 This I thought was kind of givable. 545 00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:10.079 I think the dogs are probably Matt's doctor probably deserves a casual punch in the shoulders. 546 00:40:10.139 --> 00:40:18.840 And also what you're sort of complaining about there is fair enough, but it's also kind of where they're taking the Capaldi doctor as well as being a less pleasant person to be around in some regards. 547 00:40:18.900 --> 00:40:19.860 Yeah, that's true. 548 00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:21.599 And I think, you know, Moffat finds it charming. 549 00:40:21.659 --> 00:40:28.980 He finds it charming when sort of perky, pixie dream girls kind of, you know, take it out on the league character for being annoying. 550 00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:35.639 And it works with river because rivers played with that knowing kind of charm, whereas I don't think it works with Clara. 551 00:40:35.699 --> 00:40:38.940 I think for better or for worse, Jenna is playing it too real. 552 00:40:38.940 --> 00:40:40.860 And I find it quite uncomfortable. 553 00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:44.940 A little less coupling and a little more drama. 554 00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:10.500 We've kind of talked about the reset button, but the reset button thing for me is, I mean, you know, it's not the first time Doctor Who or other programs have done these sorts of things, but it's very difficult to do well. 555 00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:13.320 It always ends up being a little bit unsatisfying for me. 556 00:41:13.380 --> 00:41:14.460 It is a cheat. 557 00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:25.079 And I think, like a lot of the other things we've talked about, like the zombie creatures and the, for me, the client rods and those sorts of things, I think there are too many lazy decisions and that's just another one of them. 558 00:41:25.139 --> 00:41:26.460 It's like the easy way. 559 00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:28.619 Oh, we just need to, how are we going to get out of this? 560 00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:30.420 Oh we'll just press a button and we'll go back to the way it was. 561 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:34.559 It's not quite that because the button is there in the 1st iteration the 1st time through. 562 00:41:34.619 --> 00:41:42.360 So that thing appears on the floor and I remember thinking at the time, how did that get there and being slightly surprised that it hadn't been addressed? 563 00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:46.260 It looks like Clara's picking up like a grenade of some sort. 564 00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:48.840 Yes, you think it's related to what the brothers have done? 565 00:41:48.900 --> 00:41:49.860 Yeah, yeah. 566 00:41:49.920 --> 00:42:00.179 And then we go all the way through and then he finds that moment in the timeline of the console bursts through, gives the button and dies in the process. 567 00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:02.159 Is he not disintegrated in the thing? 568 00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:04.559 Like, like, he seems, yeah. yeah, yeah. 569 00:42:04.619 --> 00:42:09.360 And it's picked up from her dialogue where she says, isn't there a big friendly button? 570 00:42:09.420 --> 00:42:17.460 And so the doctor gets that thing, which has turned up in the console room earlier, writes big friendly button on it, gives it to her, and then presses the button. 571 00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:22.440 I think, you know, if you're gonna have a reset button, that's cleverer than most. 572 00:42:22.500 --> 00:42:31.260 And it is clearly explained that he picks it up, the remote for the magnet scoop or whatever it is, from their pockets. 573 00:42:31.320 --> 00:42:34.260 Like he's just randomly picking their pockets as he arrives. 574 00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:35.639 Yeah. 575 00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:41.400 So it is all very well explained, but it is kind of terrible that that is the solution. 576 00:42:41.460 --> 00:42:45.360 Like Simon says, it's slightly lazy, even though technically it works. 577 00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:46.920 It's a slightly lazy decision. 578 00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:48.539 Yeah. 579 00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:57.179 I think, though, that this is such a sort of high concept, kind of science fiction episode sort of show that it kind of makes sense. 580 00:42:57.300 --> 00:43:04.380 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it makes sense, but there's just too much of it and too much of the other things in the episode, which is kind of the easy way out. 581 00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:11.460 It doesn't feel like anyone's really trying to create, like they think they, they think they've got the idea of the journey to the centre of the TARDIS. 582 00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:15.300 They've got this Jules Verne title that they're throwing in and 0 my god, that's the episode. 583 00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:18.599 We've done it. everyone, we've done it. 584 00:43:18.659 --> 00:43:20.159 Let's go for lunch Let's go for lunch. 585 00:43:20.219 --> 00:43:20.519 Yes. 586 00:43:20.579 --> 00:43:26.880 And dude has to go off and write the episode and throws up this stuff and, you know, who knows what the rationality is. 587 00:43:26.940 --> 00:43:33.539 It's that kind of, you know, it's that two-thirds, three-quarter mark of the season episode, which kind of is just a space. 588 00:43:33.659 --> 00:43:36.300 Space filler is too cruel a word because it's more than that. 589 00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:38.579 Is it kind of the that'll do slot? 590 00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:40.199 Yes, it's the that'll do slot. 591 00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:42.300 I think it's the and it's a that'll do episode. 592 00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:44.519 More so than some of the other that'll do episodes. 593 00:43:44.579 --> 00:43:46.019 I kind of disagree. 594 00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:49.440 Okay, because the thing about the 3 stories that he's written. 595 00:43:49.500 --> 00:43:51.179 They're all kind of high concept. 596 00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:52.980 So that's curse of the black spot. 597 00:43:52.980 --> 00:43:54.360 Curse of the black spot. 598 00:43:54.420 --> 00:43:56.940 Journey to the centre of the TARDIS and time heights. 599 00:43:57.000 --> 00:43:58.139 They're all big concepts. 600 00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:01.980 I just don't think they'd land as well as they could. 601 00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:18.119 I think there's definitely some shortcuts and tropes used in it that are there to get them over the line because they weren't show how to resolve things and they needed too much peril because they thought the concept was a bit thin. 602 00:44:18.179 --> 00:44:26.940 I do suspect this one has, it does have that air of um, a script that really needed either to be junked or rewritten. 603 00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:33.000 It's one of those ones that commits the sin that I don't like it to commit in that. 604 00:44:33.059 --> 00:44:35.159 It's a great potential that is wasted. 605 00:44:35.219 --> 00:44:41.340 As you said, at the beginning, Nathan, we all loved Tegan and Nissa's bedroom in the visitation and all these other places. 606 00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:43.679 You know, we love the invasion of time, even though it was a hospital. 607 00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:44.460 We love the goblins. 608 00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:45.420 We're close to it. 609 00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:47.579 Love Lagopolos. 610 00:44:47.639 --> 00:44:52.199 And, you know, I even like, you know, attack assignment where he's tinkering with a bit neuron. you know, all that sort of stuff. 611 00:44:52.260 --> 00:44:52.800 Great. 612 00:44:52.860 --> 00:45:02.519 And for me, it just does not fulfil what it could have been if I if I kind of was able to provide one paragraph to the writer to say, look, can you do it like this? 613 00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:03.840 And that would have... 614 00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:05.880 The title completely oversells and underdelivers. 615 00:45:05.940 --> 00:45:06.539 There you go. 616 00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:07.380 That's it. 617 00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:17.820 I have to say, though, that in this most Star Trek Voyager of episodes, kind of with the Red Alert, lights and the corridors and the bits and that. 618 00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:20.340 I mean, of course we're going to have a reset button. 619 00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:49.559 Well, be listener, that's all we have time for this week. 620 00:45:49.619 --> 00:45:54.780 We'll be back next week to welcome Emma Peel to the Doctor Who family in the Crimson Horror. 621 00:45:54.840 --> 00:46:13.920 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook, at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project. 622 00:46:13.980 --> 00:46:22.320 Until next time, remember that it's probably time you stopped pulling that prank where you convince your sister-in-law that she's actually a toaster. 623 00:46:22.380 --> 00:46:24.840 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 624 00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:25.860 Good night. 625 00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:26.699 Bye for now. 626 00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:27.480 Au voir. 627 00:46:30.780 --> 00:46:33.539 That was Flight through Entirety. 628 00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:36.599 Sorry, Nathan Bottleley, Peter Griffiths, Matthew Hounsell and Simon Moore. 629 00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:38.820 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 630 00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:45.480 This episode, the law of conservation of detail was recorded on the 19th of June 2022 and released on the 2nd of October. 631 00:46:47.219 --> 00:47:03.239 Here at FDE publishing, we would like to announce the imminent release of Nathan and Brendan's big book of the time war, in which the authors reveal all their favourite time war moments, and which, at 500 fully illustrated pages, still manages to be shorter than the TARDIS Wakia entry. 632 00:47:09.059 --> 00:47:18.000 I was wondering whether the reset button is like this kind of thing so that they can have the big revelation speech, but don't have to do any of the consequences on it. 633 00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:20.099 When I looked up, looked up yesterday. 634 00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:21.659 I'm preparing my notes. 635 00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:30.420 One of the reviews said that it sped the arc, the season arc forward only to have it then ripped away from you again. 636 00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:31.139 Yeah. 637 00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:34.260 So the audience is being told this, but the character isn't. 638 00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:35.820 But you see, but it's weird. 639 00:47:35.940 --> 00:47:39.539 This is why I'm saying that the doctor remembers it all because he's a timeline. 640 00:47:39.659 --> 00:47:41.639 He remembers through all this kind of crap. 641 00:47:41.699 --> 00:47:46.500 Whereas Clara, with Clara, the humans have a vague sense of it. 642 00:47:46.739 --> 00:47:58.019 You know, in these time loopy kind of reset episodes, the characters almost always retain something from the bit that's been erased from their existence. 643 00:47:58.079 --> 00:48:05.940 But so what we get is the opportunity for the doctor to yell at Clara is to say, what are you, what are you, what's business, and for her to deny it all. 644 00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:08.039 And for them, the luxury. 645 00:48:08.099 --> 00:48:09.840 Yeah, we never have to follow that up. 646 00:48:09.900 --> 00:48:14.039 We just know now that the doctor knows what we know, which is the fact that, yes, she's just a normal human being. 647 00:48:14.099 --> 00:48:17.880 And the fact that we've already seen Clara twice before, well, what's that? 648 00:48:17.940 --> 00:48:23.579 And like it was the same in Hyde, you know, like, so we didn't have any reference to it in Cold War, maybe? 649 00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:26.400 No, Cold War was just an episode from that point. 650 00:48:26.460 --> 00:48:27.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 651 00:48:27.420 --> 00:48:32.519 There's a moment where Clara opens a book conveniently at the right spot about the timeline. 652 00:48:32.579 --> 00:48:34.019 And then at the end of the day. 653 00:48:34.019 --> 00:48:34.739 Who wrote that book? 654 00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:35.880 Davros? 655 00:48:35.940 --> 00:48:37.380 Timothy Dalton? 656 00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:38.519 Who wrote that book? 657 00:48:38.579 --> 00:48:40.079 It doesn't matter. 658 00:48:40.139 --> 00:48:40.800 It doesn't matter. 659 00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:42.900 But the Tarnus opens the book for it, one could argue. 660 00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:44.760 It's book of the time war. 661 00:48:44.820 --> 00:48:48.300 But isn't that just a representation of what the TARDIS knows about the time war? 662 00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:51.119 You know, like it's that that's a kind of metaphorical space? 663 00:48:51.179 --> 00:48:52.619 And so I'm okay with that. 664 00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:53.699 No one has to have written it. 665 00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:54.480 But that's it. 666 00:48:54.539 --> 00:49:05.760 I'd forgotten, and it was the thing we had mentioned, that she knows secrets about him, including his name, and then he's trying to find out secrets about her and we have this sort of thing, and then it just gets wiped. 667 00:49:05.820 --> 00:49:11.099 So, but her knowledge of him gets wiped as well and I don't know. 668 00:49:11.159 --> 00:49:18.599 It seems, it looks like it's they're trying to create the link to the name of doctor. at the end of the thing. 669 00:49:18.659 --> 00:49:25.199 But it all kind of, it all gets erased by just the reset button. 670 00:49:25.260 --> 00:49:33.960 And you left you're left kind of in this point where, yes, the doctor and the audience all know that Clara's not this evil being now will move on. 671 00:49:34.139 --> 00:49:37.019 But why did you need that in the 1st place? 672 00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:38.460 Yeah. 673 00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:40.380 I'm going to take next week. 674 00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:41.699 Crimson R. 675 00:49:41.699 --> 00:49:42.900 It's got nothing about the... 676 00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:44.099 No, I can't remember. 677 00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:44.699 I can't either. 678 00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:46.440 I don't think I've seen it. isn't it okay? 679 00:49:46.500 --> 00:49:48.960 Isn't the Crimson and Horror the Great Intelligence? 680 00:49:49.019 --> 00:49:50.099 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 681 00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:52.679 Is it the Great Intelligence is that appeared, is it? 682 00:49:52.739 --> 00:49:53.340 No, I can't remember. 683 00:49:53.400 --> 00:49:55.739 Yeah, isn't it the great intelligence that's driving there? 684 00:49:55.800 --> 00:49:56.880 Mr. Sweeney? 685 00:49:56.880 --> 00:49:57.599 It's Mr. Sweet. 686 00:49:57.659 --> 00:49:58.139 Mr. Sweet. 687 00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:00.360 The king of the... the name of the doctor. 688 00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:10.619 But in defence of the reset thing because, you see, where I think the reset thing does work is at the end of episodes like the Big Bang and Wedding of River song, that has a reset, but it's different. 689 00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:11.579 It's more clever. 690 00:50:11.639 --> 00:50:12.059 It's interesting. 691 00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:16.199 It feels less like, 0 gosh, is that the time? 692 00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:23.820 You know, it's because you've been on a journey with the characters to that research as opposed to it just ending the plot. 693 00:50:23.880 --> 00:50:24.960 That's there it is. 694 00:50:25.019 --> 00:50:32.039 And, you know, that's unfortunately, when you're trying to cram all this into 44.5 minutes or whatever it is, it's often it's not going to work. 695 00:50:32.099 --> 00:50:34.320 All right, I think we'll wind up. 696 00:50:34.380 --> 00:50:35.340 That's probably a tag. 697 00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:36.480 Yeah. 698 00:50:36.539 --> 00:50:37.320 Cool. 699 00:50:37.380 --> 00:50:37.860 Excellent. 700 00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:39.119 Oh, and you've already done the outro. 701 00:50:39.179 --> 00:50:40.739 And we've already done the outro, so we're done.