WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:48:56 1 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:40.439 Hello, Delissa, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the 2 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:43.679 only Doctor Who podcast that would have no objections at all to 3 00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:45.420 being appointed Queen of the Universe. 4 00:00:45.539 --> 00:00:47.039 I'm Nathan. 5 00:00:47.100 --> 00:00:47.939 I'm James. 6 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:53.100 I'm Peter, and I'm Natty Longshoe's comical electrolytic spar and 7 00:00:53.100 --> 00:00:54.060 sauna for this one. 8 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:58.140 Well, everyone loved the doctor's wife, of course, and so Neil 9 00:00:58.140 --> 00:01:02.100 Gaiman is back to try his hand at a script, which recreates all of 10 00:01:02.100 --> 00:01:06.120 his most resonant childhood fears, and which demands the credible 11 00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:09.359 realisation of about 3000000 cybermen. 12 00:01:09.420 --> 00:01:15.239 What could possibly go wrong as Angian Artie confront a nightmare 13 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:16.439 in silver? 14 00:01:34.500 --> 00:01:37.140 So am I right? 15 00:01:37.260 --> 00:01:39.900 everyone hates this episode. 16 00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:44.340 There were people, there were people clambering over each other to 17 00:01:44.340 --> 00:01:48.540 get on this episode of FTE and get a good solid rant on. 18 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:49.439 Is that right? 19 00:01:49.500 --> 00:01:52.319 Oh, I thought people were clambering over each other to get off 20 00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:53.819 this episode of MT. 21 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:55.560 Most episodes. 22 00:01:55.620 --> 00:01:58.079 I mean I have some sympathy with the people who hate it. 23 00:01:58.140 --> 00:02:01.500 I hate it myself because it just doesn't rouse that much in me. 24 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:02.280 Right. 25 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:02.700 Yes. 26 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:06.120 I think this is a very successful episode of the Sarah Jane 27 00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:06.659 Adventures. 28 00:02:07.379 --> 00:02:13.800 You know, I think that there is something. about there's something 29 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:17.280 about childhood fear, which is a thing that Gaiman is very 30 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:18.539 definitely into. 31 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:23.219 And so we have these kids who have kind of inveigled their way 32 00:02:23.219 --> 00:02:26.280 onto the TARDIS at the end of last episode. 33 00:02:26.340 --> 00:02:30.180 And we're kind of telling it from their point of view. 34 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:33.780 But then they're kind of suddenly sidelined and stuff. 35 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:38.280 And so it ends up not being about what it probably ought to be 36 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:38.580 about. 37 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:42.419 This is the WC feels and he was actually, you know, when he 38 00:02:42.419 --> 00:02:45.180 famously said, don't work with animals or children. 39 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:48.659 But what he was actually saying in the, you know, in the 30s films 40 00:02:48.659 --> 00:02:52.860 that he did, and some of them did have both of these avenues of 41 00:02:52.860 --> 00:02:57.840 thespian intern, is that they require so much absolute genius 42 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:02.219 directing and then editing and very cautious, very, even with a 43 00:03:02.219 --> 00:03:03.000 brilliant child. 44 00:03:03.060 --> 00:03:08.340 And I did like the little girl Angie's sparks and her anger and I 45 00:03:08.340 --> 00:03:12.180 did like that they are actually both mirror selves of Clara's 46 00:03:12.180 --> 00:03:12.659 personality. 47 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:16.979 I like posh little auntie, you know, he's got this terrible posh 48 00:03:16.979 --> 00:03:20.219 voice and he's a member of the chess club because of course he 49 00:03:20.219 --> 00:03:20.520 is. 50 00:03:20.580 --> 00:03:23.759 But then there's the cantankerous son of a. 51 00:03:24.060 --> 00:03:27.780 Angie, who is just, you know, the thing we all love to hate. 52 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:31.439 But no, I just honestly think this could have been, it's almost 53 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:31.740 there. 54 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:35.699 It's maybe of Disney, it had Disney's production crew behind it 55 00:03:35.699 --> 00:03:38.939 and they're editing suites and their directors. 56 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:42.780 Okay, I will say out front, I just think it comes down to time and 57 00:03:42.780 --> 00:03:43.139 directing. 58 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:44.819 I think everyone does their absolute best. 59 00:03:44.939 --> 00:03:47.340 Matt doesn't look like he's being directed. 60 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:50.699 So he's just doing it as Matt would feel he's doing it. 61 00:03:50.819 --> 00:03:52.979 It feels like a very competent rehearsal shoot. 62 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:53.819 Yeah. 63 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:57.000 I think that that's actually the problem. 64 00:03:57.060 --> 00:04:01.379 So the director of this episode has never directed another Doctor 65 00:04:01.379 --> 00:04:02.340 Who episode. 66 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:03.360 Astonish me. 67 00:04:03.419 --> 00:04:08.340 Yeah, his name is Stephen Wolfenden, and he doesn't come back, and 68 00:04:08.340 --> 00:04:11.039 I think I'm going to say it. 69 00:04:11.099 --> 00:04:12.300 I think he's bad. 70 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:17.040 I think this is a badly directed episode, and nearly everything 71 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:19.139 that goes wrong with it comes down to that. 72 00:04:19.620 --> 00:04:23.579 This episode feels to me like a difficult 2nd album in the 73 00:04:23.579 --> 00:04:24.120 writing. 74 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:28.860 So it's the doctor's wife was a pretty tight marriage between Neil 75 00:04:28.860 --> 00:04:30.839 Gaiman's brand and Doctor Who. 76 00:04:30.899 --> 00:04:33.360 This feels like Neil Gaiman without much to say. 77 00:04:33.420 --> 00:04:35.279 So it's pretty scattershot. 78 00:04:35.339 --> 00:04:39.360 He's got some ideas there, but there's nothing really driving it 79 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:42.720 and so it's tricked out with all kinds of diversions like 80 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:46.379 bizarrely whimsical characters who don't really fit the narrative 81 00:04:46.379 --> 00:04:47.279 or drive it forward. 82 00:04:47.339 --> 00:04:49.740 And I think that that extends to the production. 83 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:52.620 It feels like there wasn't really a tone meeting. 84 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:54.959 So nothing's really on the same page. 85 00:04:54.959 --> 00:04:58.800 And so I don't know what we're seeing on screen, really. 86 00:04:58.860 --> 00:05:00.060 It's bizarrely unfocused. 87 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:03.600 Yeah, I mean, part of the problem is, I think that Gamean gets 88 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:07.379 such an incredible director and Richard Clarke in his last episode 89 00:05:07.379 --> 00:05:11.579 he is relying on having a director that good. 90 00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:16.920 And like, you know, there's a scene kind of early on where the 91 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:23.879 doctor puts Angie and Artie to bed and says, you know, don't 92 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:24.480 wander off. 93 00:05:24.540 --> 00:05:28.079 Otherwise, we might have to go rescuing and or someone might have 94 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:29.459 to go and rescue you or something. 95 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:34.560 And one of the kids says, you know, rescue what, from, you know 96 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:37.439 like there's clearly some sort of danger and the doctor refuses to 97 00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:39.180 say anything and he just leaves. 98 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:44.639 And then you get Angie leaves and you've got auntie by himself in 99 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:48.899 this room full of waxworks and it's meant to be terrifying. 100 00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:51.600 It's meant to be about childhood terror. 101 00:05:51.660 --> 00:05:55.560 And that's why you have sort of incompetent adults and people not 102 00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:58.199 telling you the truth and stuff like that. 103 00:05:58.259 --> 00:06:01.680 You know, if this had been more like night terrors. 104 00:06:01.740 --> 00:06:05.459 If this had been more about, like nightmares in the name. 105 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:10.079 If this had been more directly about the fears of childhood. 106 00:06:10.139 --> 00:06:15.420 And if it had had a consistent aesthetic, it might have worked. 107 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:20.399 Well, it suffers from the doctor's daughter, itis, in that I think 108 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:24.120 you know, we've seen many times in Doctor Who, in episodes like 109 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:27.600 The Leisure Hive, and the girl who waited that are fairly 110 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:31.740 unremarkable script can be totally brought home by the design. 111 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:35.459 And what this needed was a consistent design ethos, something that 112 00:06:35.459 --> 00:06:39.420 made you believe in the fairly whimsical and bizarre world that 113 00:06:39.420 --> 00:06:40.079 it's producing. 114 00:06:40.139 --> 00:06:42.720 But actually, it's the doctor's daughter. 115 00:06:42.779 --> 00:06:46.680 It ends up being shot in a castle with kind of gels on the light. 116 00:06:46.740 --> 00:06:50.519 Yeah, it actually even uses one of the same locations. 117 00:06:50.579 --> 00:06:55.800 The barracks is the same location as the, as the, theatre. 118 00:06:55.860 --> 00:06:57.720 Yeah, the human's base, the theatre. 119 00:06:57.779 --> 00:06:59.579 Do you know, I actually thought that when I was watching. 120 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:01.980 I looked and I thought, this doesn't really suit what it's going 121 00:07:01.980 --> 00:07:02.459 for. 122 00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:04.560 It's just like the doctor's daughter and isn't that funny? 123 00:07:04.620 --> 00:07:06.120 It's actually the doctor's daughter. 124 00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:06.839 Yeah. 125 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:10.199 Actually, I think the settings and all the rest of it are very 126 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:15.300 gaman, but it comes down to, you know, there are at least 20 I can 127 00:07:15.300 --> 00:07:21.959 think of hammer horrors, one of which stars, Adrian Corey, and 128 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:24.600 Lala Ward. trying to remember what that one's called. 129 00:07:24.660 --> 00:07:26.339 It's about 97. leisure hive. 130 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:27.839 Is it something about vampires? 131 00:07:27.899 --> 00:07:31.500 It's usually about vampires, but there's Zombieland came out a 132 00:07:31.500 --> 00:07:34.199 couple of years before with Woody Harrelson, which is almost the 133 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:36.839 same plot, again, set in a fun fair. 134 00:07:36.899 --> 00:07:40.560 It's a grand tradition of similar going all the way back to Robert 135 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:44.939 Vener's cabinet of Dr. Caligari, which we might have mentioned. 136 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:49.439 I mean, it's really sound notions of how to set up a thing like 137 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:52.620 this and get, do the drama happening and get the audience 138 00:07:52.620 --> 00:07:53.220 involved. 139 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:56.699 And I sort of think it just maybe it's just down to rushing. 140 00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:59.220 I don't even know that the shots of the directors are actually all 141 00:07:59.220 --> 00:07:59.519 that bad. 142 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:01.620 I think the cybermen are shot very nicely. 143 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:04.860 There's camera angles that, you know, with the number of crew that 144 00:08:04.860 --> 00:08:05.279 you've got. 145 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:06.899 The movement is gorgeous. 146 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:08.519 He's got the speed working. 147 00:08:08.579 --> 00:08:11.579 A little child would be, you know, this is the thing with game and 148 00:08:11.579 --> 00:08:12.360 that I'm trying to say. 149 00:08:12.420 --> 00:08:18.540 He writes so beautifully. of children for children as readers, and 150 00:08:18.540 --> 00:08:20.759 I'm thinking graveyard book, which is actually one of my favourite 151 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:22.259 children's books of all time. 152 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:27.120 And the subtleties and the nuances that he expects from his 153 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:31.079 characters and therefore from his actors is, I just feel beyond 154 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:36.059 the actual structure of Doctor Who in the time they have. 155 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:39.240 If he'd been writing for adult characters, I think we'd have a 156 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:42.480 different, we just don't get genuineness from this and that's what 157 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:43.379 Peter was saying before. 158 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:48.659 I mean, if you look at the 2 children in the doctor, the widow, and 159 00:08:48.659 --> 00:08:53.399 the wardrobe, where you've got Lillian Cyril, who are well-defined 160 00:08:53.399 --> 00:08:54.120 characters. 161 00:08:54.179 --> 00:08:58.200 And it is an older sister and a younger brother. 162 00:08:58.259 --> 00:09:01.500 And I think that they're better defined. 163 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:04.379 Angie and Artie, I think, the idea is that they're kind of 164 00:09:04.379 --> 00:09:07.799 naturalistic and they're, you know, Angie in particular is a sort 165 00:09:07.799 --> 00:09:10.500 of bullshy, annoying teenager who's not impressed by anything. 166 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:15.000 And like that's kind of okay, but they're just not characterised 167 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:17.039 clearly enough, I think, is the problem. 168 00:09:17.100 --> 00:09:19.980 And I mean, as for the setting. 169 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:26.460 Like the crumbling fun fair is a great classic setting. 170 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:30.779 We're looking back on childhood, on our own childhood, the fears 171 00:09:30.779 --> 00:09:33.000 that inhabited our childhood. 172 00:09:33.059 --> 00:09:37.320 So the crumbling fun fair is perfect, but it's one shot. 173 00:09:37.379 --> 00:09:39.899 You know, it's one effect shot. 174 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:42.480 It doesn't feel like it's set in a crumbling fun fair at all. 175 00:09:42.539 --> 00:09:46.019 No, it's that modern Doctor Who cliche of basically looking out a 176 00:09:46.019 --> 00:09:47.340 door at a digital effect shot. 177 00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:51.720 And it just brings home how cruelly that opening scene, which is 178 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:54.720 meant to be a moonscape, is actually just a corner of the studio 179 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:56.159 with a bit of green screen behind it. 180 00:09:56.220 --> 00:09:58.019 Do you think that's a moon base reference? 181 00:09:58.080 --> 00:09:59.639 Yeah, of course. 182 00:09:59.700 --> 00:10:02.100 I thought they were going to do a cubric. 183 00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:03.299 Kubrick Griffin. 184 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:05.940 I was getting a bit excited about that But the Hammer horror films 185 00:10:05.940 --> 00:10:09.240 that he's referencing vampire circuses, the Lala War. 186 00:10:09.299 --> 00:10:09.840 Oh, here we go. 187 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:13.559 David Proud, David Pruss. in it as well. 188 00:10:13.620 --> 00:10:17.519 And the other one I'm thinking of is waxwork with David Warner and 189 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:22.259 Patrick McNee from 80 from the late 80s, which is hilarious and 190 00:10:22.259 --> 00:10:25.139 looks, yeah, this has got really strong legs. 191 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:27.779 They just, they just got crumbly knees. 192 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:29.399 It's what you were saying earlier, Richard. 193 00:10:29.460 --> 00:10:33.480 It's so hard to bring in successfully, something which is meant to 194 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:35.580 be about kids and scary for kids. 195 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:39.240 So for every Willy Wonka in the chocolate factory, you've just got 196 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:42.360 a miss like this where you think these moments, which should work 197 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:42.720 don't. 198 00:10:42.779 --> 00:10:46.860 Well, I mean, look at what Richard Clarke manages to do with Night 199 00:10:46.860 --> 00:10:48.600 Terror is, which is not a good script. 200 00:10:48.659 --> 00:10:53.100 I don't think, but it has not real proper look to it. 201 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:54.899 It's so beautiful for sure. 202 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:56.399 Yeah, it feels a bit fun. 203 00:10:56.460 --> 00:10:58.200 It's shot like a Cronenberg. 204 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:02.399 It's definitely looking at David Cronenberg's early stuff and I'm 205 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:05.100 actually thinking of the harsh overlighting and the saturation of 206 00:11:05.100 --> 00:11:07.259 the fly, which was actually a Mel Brooks film. 207 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:08.639 Did you know that Anyway, yeah. 208 00:11:08.700 --> 00:11:09.539 No, it was. 209 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:12.899 Millbrooks created a lot of those great schlocky horror things in 210 00:11:12.899 --> 00:11:13.799 the 80s and 90s. 211 00:11:13.860 --> 00:11:16.919 Yeah, the lighting directing. 212 00:11:16.980 --> 00:11:19.320 I honestly think it just comes down to, if you're working with 213 00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:23.700 children, you need a lot more time and some very judicial cuts. 214 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:24.240 Yeah. 215 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:28.320 It's the perils of bringing YA fiction to the screen. 216 00:11:28.379 --> 00:11:31.440 I was talking to a friend of the podcast about this episode last 217 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:33.720 night and he said it feels like a live action cartoon. 218 00:11:33.779 --> 00:11:37.080 And I'd agree with that. got a very Scooby-doo feel to it, and I'm 219 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:38.519 not sure that that's what Gaman was going for. 220 00:11:38.580 --> 00:11:39.779 No, it wasn't. 221 00:11:39.899 --> 00:11:41.159 Yeah, yeah. 222 00:11:41.220 --> 00:11:48.360 No, the sort of crumbling past its time, you know, dark, you know 223 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:51.600 a childhood that's sort of haunted by strange fears. 224 00:11:51.659 --> 00:11:57.659 It's all just too kind of slap dash, I think, in just the visual 225 00:11:57.659 --> 00:11:58.320 look of it. 226 00:11:58.379 --> 00:12:01.500 And far too grand a scale for what they can achieve in the top. 227 00:12:01.620 --> 00:12:04.679 Yeah, but I mean, if they'd given us that, if they'd given us that 228 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:07.139 effect shot of the crumbling fun fair. 229 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:10.559 And then we had seen them in there, do you know what I mean? 230 00:12:10.620 --> 00:12:14.700 Tider shots with actual sort of practical set elements that which 231 00:12:14.700 --> 00:12:17.700 placed them in that glass painting. 232 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:21.240 Yeah, rather than just looking out at the glass painting. think 233 00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:21.840 it's a problem. 234 00:12:21.899 --> 00:12:24.299 It's the kind of story, I think, that they might have actually 235 00:12:24.299 --> 00:12:28.200 done better back in the 1980s in a Sylvester McCoy 3 parter 236 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:30.120 because they would like the happiness patrol. 237 00:12:30.179 --> 00:12:33.179 They would have gamely approached making this fun fair in the 238 00:12:33.179 --> 00:12:33.480 studio. 239 00:12:33.539 --> 00:12:36.659 And it probably would have worked in that kind of that way that 240 00:12:36.659 --> 00:12:37.500 the happiness patrol does. 241 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:42.659 And with that sort of the falseness, the facade of funfare would 242 00:12:42.659 --> 00:12:43.259 work really well. 243 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:45.779 Good point, actually. with cheap sets instead of locations. 244 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:49.200 Well, I mean, if you if you think about what happened in the 245 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:53.519 doctor's wife, where you've got that crashed spaceship that is an 246 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:57.419 effect shot, but that, the characters are interacting underneath 247 00:12:57.419 --> 00:13:01.139 it, they're integrated into that shop, there's a real proper sense 248 00:13:01.139 --> 00:13:07.320 of place, and it's the sort of place that this needed to have, I 249 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:07.440 think. 250 00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:11.700 It needs to feel more like theatre in the way that the early 251 00:13:11.700 --> 00:13:12.779 German filmmakers. 252 00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:14.580 Nosferado is a 100 years old this year. 253 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:15.960 I thought we were looking quite good. 254 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:21.059 Is that you're working as you're both saying, Peter and James 255 00:13:21.059 --> 00:13:23.759 you're working with flats, so angle them, play with them and 256 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:26.940 harshly light them and make them surreal, make them hyper real? 257 00:13:39.659 --> 00:13:43.860 Actually, it's a question of timing, and, yeah, more time with the 258 00:13:43.860 --> 00:13:44.399 actors. 259 00:13:44.460 --> 00:13:47.879 Actually, the biggest letdown for me isn't the children. 260 00:13:47.940 --> 00:13:52.799 It's Matt being given a lot of exposition time and there's not a 261 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:54.600 lot of pitch in your in what he's doing. 262 00:13:54.659 --> 00:13:55.259 No. 263 00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:56.580 No. 264 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:01.019 I think the script needs the doctor and Mr. Clever to be 265 00:14:01.019 --> 00:14:06.179 indistinguishable from one another from the outside, you know, so 266 00:14:06.179 --> 00:14:11.519 Clara has to guess which person she's interacting with. 267 00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:15.360 But I think it's just a lot of effort to put Matt through. 268 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:19.799 And I think he tries to make it watchable, but I don't think he's 269 00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:22.019 being given any direction, as you said before. 270 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.940 He's the over eager substitute teacher for this episode trying to 271 00:14:26.940 --> 00:14:29.279 win us all over and you're just trying. 272 00:14:29.340 --> 00:14:31.139 Oh, you just haven't got the tone right. 273 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:35.100 I mean, we've seen that before, that multiple personality disorder 274 00:14:35.100 --> 00:14:37.740 effect where one person snaps between things. 275 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:40.860 And I think Matt puts in a game effort to pull it off, but I'm 276 00:14:40.860 --> 00:14:41.399 just not sure. 277 00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:42.539 I think it's a tall order. 278 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:44.340 No one really could. 279 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:45.659 Was this shot in a hurry? 280 00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:46.200 This one? 281 00:14:46.259 --> 00:14:47.700 Do we know the history? 282 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:50.279 I think it just looks like a... 283 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:53.460 Because it is a 50th anniversary Cyberman story. 284 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:54.720 That's a very special thing. 285 00:14:54.779 --> 00:14:57.720 I know, side man anniversary stories are always so good. 286 00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:02.820 Thank you, silver nemesis. we still love you don't we? 287 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:04.860 It's even got gold in it. 288 00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:06.360 Yeah, yeah. 289 00:15:06.419 --> 00:15:08.159 Gold's back. cleaning fluid. 290 00:15:08.220 --> 00:15:10.679 Oh, yes, lots of lovely knobs. 291 00:15:10.740 --> 00:15:11.940 Lots of lovely knots. 292 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:13.919 Of course, Neil Gaiman watched the moon base before this. 293 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:14.820 Oh, yeah. 294 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:16.320 And he probably watched it as a child. 295 00:15:16.379 --> 00:15:18.779 He's the bright age to a voice, doesn't he? 296 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:19.799 He is a Doctor Who fan. 297 00:15:19.860 --> 00:15:22.799 Yeah, he said the cybermen were the most terrifying. 298 00:15:22.860 --> 00:15:24.600 Well, you know, people say this. 299 00:15:24.659 --> 00:15:26.340 But when has that been proven? 300 00:15:27.779 --> 00:15:29.879 You know, when you're five. 301 00:15:29.940 --> 00:15:36.600 I think this is someone pointed out, the 2nd time this half of the 302 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:40.860 season has gone back to season five. 303 00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:44.879 You know, we've got Cold War doing a base under siege and now 304 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:48.240 we've got this doing the Cyberman attacking a base. 305 00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:48.840 Right. 306 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:50.580 We've got a lot of week next week. 307 00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:56.580 And we know that Matt loved Pat Trouton's. work. 308 00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:57.059 So, yeah. 309 00:15:57.120 --> 00:16:03.600 I think though, I think that Cold War is boring is the problem. 310 00:16:03.659 --> 00:16:05.100 It's an unambitious script. 311 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:06.899 I thoroughly enjoyed it because of that. 312 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:09.899 I just like that it was an episode of the Champions that just 313 00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:12.059 happened to be a doctor. fair enough. 314 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:16.379 I think this is more interesting than that, but it just works less 315 00:16:16.379 --> 00:16:20.340 well because it's something the show doesn't seem to be able to 316 00:16:20.340 --> 00:16:20.879 pull off. 317 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:24.120 You know, I think the thing that fails for me about this episode 318 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:28.679 is that the doctor's wife is the Doctor Who story that Gaiman has 319 00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:30.059 wanted to write his entire life. 320 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.580 And it's brilliant. 321 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:34.440 It's an amazing concept. 322 00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:39.360 This is Neil Gaiman as Doctor Who fan going, how do I write Doctor 323 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:40.080 Who story? 324 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:44.460 Oh, I'll just chuck all of these sort of things that scared me 325 00:16:44.460 --> 00:16:49.200 about the cybermen as a child into a melting pot and it's just 326 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:50.220 it's a mess. 327 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:52.200 It's a bit of a nothing burg of a story. 328 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:53.879 That's what I said at the start. 329 00:16:53.940 --> 00:16:57.779 The doctor's wife was a tight marriage between Neil Gaiman's brand 330 00:16:57.779 --> 00:17:00.899 and Doctor Who, whereas this is an open marriage. 331 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:01.799 This is very loose. 332 00:17:01.860 --> 00:17:05.759 I think, I mean, there's a version of this story that nearly works 333 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:06.599 though. 334 00:17:06.660 --> 00:17:12.660 If this is a story about Gaiman's own childhood fears, watching 335 00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:15.480 Doctor Who with the Cyberman in it. 336 00:17:15.539 --> 00:17:19.619 And because he does childhood fears, you know, that's part of his 337 00:17:19.619 --> 00:17:24.180 sort of brand, it's not hard to imagine a version of this, that's 338 00:17:24.180 --> 00:17:28.859 well directed and that coheres around that idea. 339 00:17:28.980 --> 00:17:33.359 And I just think the problem is that it's so flat and 340 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:34.559 unambitiously directed. 341 00:17:34.619 --> 00:17:37.200 It's like those doctor versus doctor scenes. 342 00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:40.259 I see where that's coming from and I see how you might think we 343 00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:42.299 can rely on Matt to make this work. 344 00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:47.579 But the way that it's presented is a fantasy writer's idea of a 345 00:17:47.579 --> 00:17:48.480 sci-fi concept. 346 00:17:48.539 --> 00:17:54.119 And so when we go into Matt's brain and you've got the doctor and 347 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:57.180 Mr. Clever talking to each other, the way that it's mounted is not 348 00:17:57.180 --> 00:18:01.740 that different from the Matrix in the Arc of Infinity, you know 349 00:18:01.740 --> 00:18:04.920 things haven't moved on, there's no more visual impact to those 350 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:06.960 scenes than there were in Arc of Infinity. 351 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:08.160 Wait till next week. 352 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:18.839 How do we feel about the redesign of the Cyberman? 353 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:23.039 Because I am going to, again, put my cards on the table and say, I 354 00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:23.579 really hate it. 355 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:27.720 Brendan pointed out to me the other day that this Cyberman 356 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:31.680 redesign is basically the MCU's Iron Man. 357 00:18:31.740 --> 00:18:33.359 Yeah. he's right. 358 00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:35.519 It just needs a nice paint job. 359 00:18:35.579 --> 00:18:40.619 I think the problem is that it's so clearly plastic or whatever. 360 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:46.319 I mean, the previous costumes are made out of fibreglass, are 361 00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:46.680 they? 362 00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:51.299 And they're painted with metallic paint because it was important 363 00:18:51.299 --> 00:18:57.000 for Russell, that they should be made of steel, that they were 364 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:02.400 people in steel armour, and they were wearing the steel armour to 365 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:06.299 protect them against their inherent vulnerability. 366 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:10.380 And, you know, it's the emotional vulnerability that destroys them 367 00:19:10.380 --> 00:19:12.960 at the end of the age of steel. 368 00:19:13.019 --> 00:19:15.359 But they needed to look like steel. 369 00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:17.819 These ones look like plastic, I think. 370 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:20.339 There's something that could work about them. 371 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:24.900 The idea that they're segmented in the same way that a cybermatch 372 00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:27.599 is that they could change form. 373 00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:31.440 I wanted to see them do phantom agents things and turn into 374 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:32.160 bowling balls. 375 00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:36.960 That's a reference for the older listeners. 376 00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:39.960 It's just not there's something that doesn't quite work about 377 00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:40.200 them. 378 00:19:40.259 --> 00:19:40.980 No. 379 00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:43.559 I think they're too slick and well designed, and as you say, they 380 00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:48.180 do look like an earth sets made in Hong Kong iron person toy that 381 00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:49.500 you'd see it that used to show. 382 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:51.720 Yeah, yeah, that's right, a knockoff one. 383 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:56.039 For the body horror that Neil Gaiman is going for, which again is 384 00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:58.920 an uncomfortable marriage with what we actually get on screen. 385 00:19:58.980 --> 00:20:01.019 The design doesn't really work for it. 386 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:03.839 The faces don't look very skull-like. 387 00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:07.019 They look kind of like smooth, and as you said, Nathan, plasticky 388 00:20:07.019 --> 00:20:08.400 and not very frightening, actually. 389 00:20:08.460 --> 00:20:10.619 It's a bit of a nod to metropolis. 390 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:12.119 It's a bit of a nod to Fritz Lang. 391 00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:14.220 They have definitely a deco inspiration there. 392 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:17.579 But they're also a 1930s car hood ornament. 393 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:19.140 Yeah. 394 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:24.359 I think the featurelessness of the face is probably trying to hark 395 00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:29.940 back to the original look, and that's kind of fair enough, I 396 00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:30.119 guess. 397 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:32.400 I just don't think it works. 398 00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:35.279 Well, there's a reason we don't see them much more, isn't there? 399 00:20:35.339 --> 00:20:40.680 Well, except that they're going to be in the finale next year 400 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:41.579 aren't they? 401 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:44.220 And they are those cybermen. 402 00:20:44.220 --> 00:20:45.059 And then we'll see. 403 00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:46.200 We've made them all. 404 00:20:46.259 --> 00:20:47.519 Yeah, that's right. 405 00:20:47.579 --> 00:20:50.400 And then we'll see all of the different costumes hauled out for 406 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:51.900 the end of series 10. 407 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:56.640 Sidemen only get scary again when you bring back Sandra's latex 408 00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:57.480 body stockings. 409 00:20:57.539 --> 00:20:58.740 Yes, I think so. 410 00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:00.059 Imp Mask. 411 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:01.380 They are really terrifying. 412 00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:02.460 Oh, yeah. 413 00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:02.880 Yeah. 414 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:03.539 Yeah. 415 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:06.960 There's something about those 1960 sidemen where they're scary 416 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:08.099 where they're up close to you. 417 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:11.400 So if sidemen in 60s get up close to you. 418 00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:14.099 They chop you or they grab you and they're big and they're 419 00:21:14.099 --> 00:21:15.480 overbearing and they're visceral. 420 00:21:15.539 --> 00:21:17.579 These don't look like any of those things. 421 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:20.099 It doesn't look scary if it gets within 2 feast sphere. 422 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:22.799 In fact, when one does get within 2 feet of Clara and she swings 423 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:23.579 that thing at her. 424 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:24.480 It's pretty lame. 425 00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:25.440 Yeah. 426 00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:30.660 Yeah, and there's that weird effect shot of just like 1000s and 427 00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:32.339 1000s of them marching in. 428 00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:37.019 And I don't know how they managed to make that boring, but they 429 00:21:37.019 --> 00:21:38.640 really, they really do. 430 00:21:38.700 --> 00:21:39.779 It's so lifeless. 431 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:42.180 So much of a climax, is it? 432 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:42.539 No. 433 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:47.880 Also, plot question, and I've watched it twice now. trying to work 434 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:48.299 out how. 435 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:54.720 So we're all in diaparel.com and Matt's covered in gorgeous 7 of 9 436 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:58.440 facial jewellery effect thing like is going to the worst pride 437 00:21:58.440 --> 00:21:59.400 festival time. 438 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:03.240 Because it's going to get hot if you're wearing that all day. 439 00:22:03.299 --> 00:22:08.160 And then they're back on the set of the end of the world and 440 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:09.420 everything's fabulous. 441 00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:13.019 And we've got Willow, one of Willow's mates. 442 00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:15.119 We've got the lovely Warwick Davies, who just makes everything 443 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:19.259 warm and wonderful and really carries a scene just by being in the 444 00:22:19.259 --> 00:22:19.740 scene. 445 00:22:19.740 --> 00:22:21.839 I find him. 446 00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:23.279 I think, I don't believe any of this. 447 00:22:23.339 --> 00:22:26.160 Oh, but then this work, Davies, and actually he, I don't know how 448 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:26.579 he does it. 449 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:27.420 He grounds things. 450 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:30.660 Probably not just by looking at everyone in the room saying, I'm 451 00:22:30.660 --> 00:22:31.799 not buying your shtick. 452 00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:34.079 I think he is magnificent. 453 00:22:34.140 --> 00:22:36.420 I think he is really good and maybe the best thing about it. 454 00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:37.319 Yeah, he is. 455 00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:41.519 And I can't decide whether going back to the temple of peace and 456 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:48.900 putting a viewscreen in is a horrifically bad misstep or a sort of 457 00:22:48.900 --> 00:22:52.980 delightful ignorance of how spaceships normally get realised in 458 00:22:52.980 --> 00:22:53.700 Doctor Who. 459 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:55.859 And I might land with the 2nd one. 460 00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:59.579 It is kind of fun, and there is that effect shot, it's the 461 00:22:59.579 --> 00:23:02.819 spaceship flies off where we're looking into the room in the 462 00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:06.539 temple of peace, through the... 463 00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:07.259 Yeah, yeah. 464 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:09.119 You know, like, I think that's kind of okay. 465 00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:10.920 He is really good. 466 00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:15.000 And so it's that thing where he blows up the planet with the 467 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.720 cyberman on it by using his A ghetto blaster. 468 00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:20.279 Yes, using the ghetto blast. 469 00:23:20.339 --> 00:23:21.779 Okay, that's ghetto blast. 470 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:23.039 Yeah, it makes the ghetto blaster. 471 00:23:23.099 --> 00:23:25.980 That effect is the most explosive implusion I've ever seen. 472 00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:29.579 Or of an unexplosion. 473 00:23:29.819 --> 00:23:35.640 Like, and I like how Angie is the one who works out that he's the 474 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:37.559 emperor. pretty good. 475 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.920 And, you know, like that scene at the end. 476 00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:41.460 I don't know. 477 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:43.920 I think it's, it is strange. 478 00:23:43.980 --> 00:23:45.839 But I think it's going for strange. 479 00:23:45.900 --> 00:23:47.160 It is. 480 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:49.079 Warick Davis is charming. in the role. 481 00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:53.940 But the character, again, even in the constraints of this bizarre 482 00:23:53.940 --> 00:23:57.359 world that we created this universe, doesn't work. 483 00:23:57.420 --> 00:24:02.099 Okay, so he's the emperor and he's sick of ruling the empire, but 484 00:24:02.099 --> 00:24:04.680 does that mean that he wants to spend his days manipulating an 485 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:05.700 empty cyberman? 486 00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:11.099 Yes, sitting in a box playing in a mechanical turf. in a discarded 487 00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:11.819 fun fan. 488 00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:14.400 How the fricking long has been sitting in that commode? 489 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:17.640 In the working bit of the commode. 490 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:20.220 Yeah. 491 00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:22.740 It's not commodious at all. 492 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:26.099 It doesn't really work, does it? 493 00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:32.759 But the world that this episode creates is one that I'm kind of 494 00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:38.640 weirdly interested in because it's a future. 495 00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:41.400 We don't know when it is or anything about it. 496 00:24:41.460 --> 00:24:42.960 We don't know where it's set. 497 00:24:43.019 --> 00:24:47.339 It's one of those empires that has a bunch of galaxies, you know 498 00:24:47.339 --> 00:24:49.980 in it, so it could kind of be anywhere. 499 00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:54.000 You look up at the night sky and there's a massive hole in the 500 00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:58.500 night sky where they've detonated an entire galaxy and killed 501 00:24:58.500 --> 00:25:01.500 10000000000s upon 10000000000s of people. 502 00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:05.460 And there's a thing called the Siberia, and we don't know what it 503 00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:09.240 is, but it's like their version of the internet or Wikipedia or 504 00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:09.480 something. 505 00:25:09.539 --> 00:25:11.220 Or the Bork hive money. 506 00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:12.000 Yeah, yeah. 507 00:25:12.059 --> 00:25:17.279 And we've got cyber mites, which I think that's... 508 00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:17.940 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 509 00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:21.599 I would have liked more of the shot of them being tossed onto Matt 510 00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:23.759 so to speak, because that is quite disturbing. 511 00:25:23.819 --> 00:25:25.740 It is, and that shot is just thrown away. 512 00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:28.980 It's like Captain blonde hair, lipstick's death, just thrown away 513 00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:29.700 in the ground. 514 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:30.359 Did you want to speak? 515 00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:32.819 Oh, really? 516 00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:35.519 I wasn't even sure she was dead. 517 00:25:35.579 --> 00:25:37.980 Like, I thought they were so poorly done. 518 00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:39.420 Is this a performance note? 519 00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:43.920 No, Tamsin health, it was just sleepwalking. 520 00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:49.559 So she's she's a big name. 521 00:25:49.619 --> 00:25:50.759 She's EastEnders. 522 00:25:50.819 --> 00:25:54.599 Yeah, she was mellow in EastEnders, and it's that sliding scale of 523 00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:58.680 soap stars in Doctor Who, where you're at the very top with Tracy 524 00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:00.779 Ann, Cyberman, and Luis Germison. 525 00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:03.599 Well, absolutely, all that wrong way around. 526 00:26:03.660 --> 00:26:07.500 And then you sort of scrape the bottom of the barrel with... 527 00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:09.000 That's her. 528 00:26:09.059 --> 00:26:12.299 And I don't think that Tamsin Hathwaite does very well. 529 00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:15.180 She's not quite at the bottom of the barrel, but she is looking at 530 00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:15.480 it. 531 00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:18.839 But that's where all the delicious fruity lees are. 532 00:26:34.140 --> 00:26:36.000 And in fact, I have a problem with that. 533 00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:40.319 That string of characters that make up the punishment platoon. 534 00:26:40.380 --> 00:26:44.339 I think it feels like a tacked on effort to give these characters 535 00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:49.319 something to hang on because they don't really fulfil a function 536 00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:50.039 in the plot. 537 00:26:50.099 --> 00:26:51.720 They're not driving forward any of the ideas. 538 00:26:51.779 --> 00:26:55.740 I was waiting for Georgia Moffatt, McDonald, to swoop back in and 539 00:26:55.740 --> 00:27:00.599 rescue us all only to be cruelly disapporated, some point or 540 00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:00.839 another. 541 00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:02.279 It did feel a bit Jenny. 542 00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:02.940 Yeah. 543 00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:06.240 So they don't even have names. like one's called beauty. 544 00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:09.420 One's called brains, and the fat guy is called ha ha. 545 00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:11.519 I just call him the James Corden one. 546 00:27:11.579 --> 00:27:12.960 Yeah, the James Corden one. 547 00:27:13.019 --> 00:27:14.279 Like, Ouch. 548 00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:15.839 What is that? 549 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:17.700 I mean he does that, doesn't he? 550 00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:19.079 Does it in the doctor's wife? 551 00:27:19.140 --> 00:27:23.519 The characters are called Idris, Uncle, Auntie House. 552 00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:26.880 And yet all of that is integral to the story, the doctor's wife. 553 00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:29.819 I'm sure there's there's stuff that's left out of this. 554 00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:31.799 Maybe it was meant to be a two-parter. 555 00:27:31.859 --> 00:27:33.420 Maybe it was written as a longer. 556 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.500 There's just a lot of stuff to get through in 45 minutes. 557 00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:41.099 But the thing is, those are character names in the doctor's wife 558 00:27:41.099 --> 00:27:42.779 these are just descriptions. 559 00:27:42.779 --> 00:27:46.500 Yeah, they are. of what, what, they're plot functioning. because 560 00:27:46.500 --> 00:27:49.200 they don't get any, They don't get names in dialogue. 561 00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:50.579 So he just calls them anything. 562 00:27:50.579 --> 00:27:51.359 Yeah, like... 563 00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:52.319 Boy one, boy two. 564 00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:53.519 Yeah, yeah, yeah, fair enough. 565 00:27:53.579 --> 00:27:54.720 Angie Artie. 566 00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:58.980 It does feel a bit Eurovision, doesn't it? 567 00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:01.200 So what's your band called? 568 00:28:01.259 --> 00:28:02.160 It does. 569 00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:05.279 I didn't think that that gingerhead guy could act in skins and he 570 00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:06.240 can't act here either. 571 00:28:06.299 --> 00:28:08.400 And I didn't recognise any of them. 572 00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:12.359 I also still don't understand why it's a punishment force. 573 00:28:12.420 --> 00:28:14.339 I don't know why they're at a circus. 574 00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:15.299 Yeah. 575 00:28:15.299 --> 00:28:17.940 So they were put there. 576 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.460 So they had been in the army? 577 00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:23.700 Is that their understanding and they had refused to obey orders? 578 00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:28.980 So the captain says that she had been given the order to explode a 579 00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:32.700 planet and she didn't do it before. 580 00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:39.119 And so there's meant to be a tension between Clara and her, because 581 00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:43.319 Clara has been told not to let her blow up the planet and she's 582 00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:46.920 already suffering in this punishment thing, and that they're stuck 583 00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:49.740 here because it's the middle of nowhere and they can't. 584 00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:51.299 It's meant to be the army. 585 00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:52.019 Yeah, yeah. 586 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:52.500 Yeah. 587 00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:55.920 What do we think about Clara in this episode? 588 00:28:55.980 --> 00:28:57.960 Treading water very quickly. 589 00:28:58.019 --> 00:29:05.039 I do love how she's doing Sarah Jane Smith's season 11 accent of 590 00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:05.400 the episode. 591 00:29:05.460 --> 00:29:08.220 Yeah, it does rock off the game for a bit, doesn't it, doesn't 592 00:29:08.220 --> 00:29:08.339 it? 593 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:09.960 Isn't that Jenna's own? 594 00:29:10.019 --> 00:29:10.740 Yeah, I think. 595 00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:12.180 Leaking through, yeah. 596 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:16.019 I think, yes, like she hadn't settled on it properly by this point 597 00:29:16.019 --> 00:29:17.579 where she was pitching the character. 598 00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:20.339 And yet Dodo got so much flag. 599 00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:22.799 And that was all from me. 600 00:29:24.299 --> 00:29:27.059 I think it's a little bit of a step down. 601 00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:29.940 And is it because last week's episode was recorded after this? 602 00:29:30.059 --> 00:29:33.839 I don't think she's very well catered for. think she's very good 603 00:29:33.900 --> 00:29:35.220 in last week's episode. 604 00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:36.839 I think she's very good in this too. 605 00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:39.359 Again, it's what am I supposed to do with this scene? 606 00:29:39.420 --> 00:29:40.500 Look feisty. 607 00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:41.880 Yeah, yeah. 608 00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:42.359 Yeah. 609 00:29:42.420 --> 00:29:43.440 And resolute. 610 00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:48.960 And yet sort of vulnerable and is my, you know, and lip glossy and 611 00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.619 again, it all gets very French and so does very quickly, doesn't 612 00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:52.799 it? 613 00:29:52.859 --> 00:29:56.279 You could really say, she's the one with the pen knife in this 614 00:29:56.279 --> 00:29:56.759 episode. 615 00:29:57.660 --> 00:29:59.640 Yeah, it could. 616 00:29:59.700 --> 00:30:02.700 I actually would have liked it if it had I need more comedy in 617 00:30:02.700 --> 00:30:02.880 this. 618 00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:05.160 It needs something to rescue it. 619 00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:08.279 What did Graham Williams era, which everyone looked, you know 620 00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:10.380 there was all those years later, I was like, it was terrible. 621 00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:10.859 It was terrible. 622 00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:12.539 I can tell you at 12 years of age. 623 00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:13.920 It was fantastic. 624 00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:17.759 And the assides and the buffoonery and Tom saying, well, this is a 625 00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:19.140 bit piss, isn't it, Lana? 626 00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:20.759 You know, pretty much to camera. 627 00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:24.059 Or, you know, actually, he was doing that more with Mary. 628 00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:27.900 There was a whole lot of, we know this is, and it just worked. 629 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:30.359 You get a bit better and have some fun with it. 630 00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:35.819 It's because of that that interplay between the comedy and the 631 00:30:35.819 --> 00:30:36.299 horror. 632 00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:39.539 There's a lightness there, even if it's not deliberate, even if 633 00:30:39.539 --> 00:30:40.740 it's Tom Hamming it up. 634 00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:47.160 The comedy, the comedy often actually works with, like with the 635 00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:47.460 horror. 636 00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:49.440 It just, maybe this is just a rush. 637 00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:54.839 Do we know if Matt and Jenna, Louise were getting on really well? 638 00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:57.839 I mean, I don't think it was Matt and Karen, but then nothing 639 00:30:57.839 --> 00:30:58.319 was. 640 00:30:58.380 --> 00:31:01.319 And actually when I was watching it, I kept thinking that Amy 641 00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:04.920 would be a better fit for the Clara role in this because she would 642 00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:08.220 have played that kind of fish out of water, thrust into an 643 00:31:08.220 --> 00:31:12.480 authority role, but not quite able to pull it off in a more human 644 00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:12.960 way. 645 00:31:13.019 --> 00:31:15.660 I don't believe in Clara as a real person in this episode. 646 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:18.779 Again, where umbrella did never to believe, and we keep being 647 00:31:18.779 --> 00:31:20.039 reminded she's impossible. 648 00:31:20.099 --> 00:31:21.900 It's not really a person. 649 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:31.079 It is a problem, I think, because the, well, because the mystery 650 00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:35.160 and we've said this before this year, The mystery is that, in fact 651 00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:36.240 there is no mystery. 652 00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:41.339 She's just an ordinary person and we find that out for sure. next 653 00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:41.700 week. 654 00:31:42.420 --> 00:31:46.680 I think, you know, because she's an ordinary person, that kind of 655 00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:49.259 limits how she can play it. 656 00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:53.039 She's a mystery, but an ordinary person and there's something 657 00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:57.359 hanging over the characterisation combined with the fact that it's 658 00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:01.140 all being shot out of order, which just means that it never 659 00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:03.180 properly lands, I think. 660 00:32:03.900 --> 00:32:06.960 And so I think she's fairly appealing, but there's nothing to the 661 00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:07.920 character at the moment. 662 00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:10.079 Because the character is the arc of the season. 663 00:32:10.140 --> 00:32:13.799 There can be no development for her over the course of that arc 664 00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:16.500 because it's all discovering the mystery of what she was in the 665 00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:16.680 beginning. 666 00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:18.720 Yeah, and we still get that here. 667 00:32:18.779 --> 00:32:24.480 I mean, we have the Mr. Clever discovering the impossible girl and 668 00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:29.160 telling Clara that the impossible girl is her and something that 669 00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:33.240 the doctor's obsessing about and the doctor kind of tries to talk 670 00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:34.019 his way out of it. 671 00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:36.119 I think later, but it does come up again. 672 00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:39.359 And that's got to not be gaman, does it? 673 00:32:39.420 --> 00:32:40.859 That has to be Mofford doing that. 674 00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:44.579 Anyway, it just doesn't end up being very good and I don't think 675 00:32:44.579 --> 00:32:48.480 she's got this role. which is potentially interesting, but nothing 676 00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:49.859 really comes of it. 677 00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:53.460 Yeah, and I think that the episodes are shot later. 678 00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:56.279 Obviously, were scripted later, and Mothat has a better handle on 679 00:32:56.279 --> 00:32:57.720 what he wants to do with the character. 680 00:32:57.779 --> 00:32:59.400 So we're a bit all over the place. 681 00:32:59.460 --> 00:33:01.019 It's season 19 Tegan. 682 00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:03.180 Yeah, changing from story to story. 683 00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:05.220 So much so. 684 00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:08.579 So which was this in shooting order? 685 00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:12.900 I'm not precisely sure, but I know that the snowman, Crimson 686 00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:15.660 Horror, and the name of the doctor, say anything which had to do 687 00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:18.240 with Vastra and her group were all shot towards the end. 688 00:33:18.299 --> 00:33:20.339 Yeah, so that you can have. 689 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:25.259 So you can have those characters and lovely Richard E. Grant 690 00:33:25.259 --> 00:33:26.339 phoning it in as well. 691 00:33:26.519 --> 00:33:30.900 So they all had to be shot when everyone's available at the same 692 00:33:30.900 --> 00:33:31.619 time in a blog. 693 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:34.380 No, that's interesting because yes, there is a very different 694 00:33:34.380 --> 00:33:37.319 characterisation from the act from Germany. 695 00:33:37.380 --> 00:33:41.339 Yeah, and there's a consistency in the in the characterisation and 696 00:33:41.339 --> 00:33:45.480 the and the tone of all of those episodes as well between each 697 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:45.720 other. 698 00:33:45.779 --> 00:33:49.019 And Jenna is very assured playing the snowmen version. 699 00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:52.559 So she's obviously hit on what to do with the character. how to 700 00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:53.039 present it. 701 00:33:53.099 --> 00:33:55.440 Actually, that's my favourite of her performances. 702 00:33:55.500 --> 00:33:57.480 And maybe in deep breath as well. 703 00:33:57.539 --> 00:34:00.480 She has moments where she's asked to just react. 704 00:34:00.539 --> 00:34:03.180 She's and I can see why she was cast. 705 00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:05.460 She's really brilliant in reactive shots. 706 00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:07.079 Not everyone can do that. 707 00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:19.920 There is a bit of an obsession with cybermen's stories flashing up 708 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.559 like publicity shots from earlier, Doctor Who. 709 00:34:22.619 --> 00:34:23.519 I really loved that. 710 00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:27.420 No, not the Mind Pro. It was nice. 711 00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:31.019 I could see pertly with one knee up, strapped to the table again 712 00:34:31.019 --> 00:34:32.460 all of that stay of the Daleks. 713 00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:35.880 And they're gorgeous shots. 714 00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:40.860 And then they culminate with Matt Smith doing his terrific Duke of 715 00:34:40.860 --> 00:34:44.099 Edinburgh Award green into the camera. 716 00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:49.800 Like, think about the way that it just rips off the design of Tomb 717 00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:50.880 of the Cyberman. 718 00:34:50.940 --> 00:34:53.340 In a way that kind of excited me. 719 00:34:53.340 --> 00:34:54.840 It was so exciting. 720 00:34:54.900 --> 00:34:57.900 We've got little half roundels you can climb up again. 721 00:34:58.019 --> 00:35:02.340 Yeah, like it's odd that that never sort of turns up and maybe 722 00:35:02.340 --> 00:35:03.599 that's a Moffat thing. 723 00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:08.460 Like in a year's time or so, we'll have a Dalek city that has the 724 00:35:08.460 --> 00:35:11.519 doorways from the Dale. 725 00:35:11.579 --> 00:35:16.260 I can't wait to talk about how, no, the external design is lifted 726 00:35:16.260 --> 00:35:17.639 from the TV 21 comics. 727 00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:20.159 James and I are a bit pash about. 728 00:35:20.219 --> 00:35:23.699 So there'll be more yaveling to come. 729 00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:28.980 But the, you know, that scene where the cybermen, you know, all 730 00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:32.579 3000000 cybermen are coming out of the thing is just that. 731 00:35:32.699 --> 00:35:36.420 3,30000, James. 732 00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:37.559 How many was it? 733 00:35:37.619 --> 00:35:39.480 It was a very big number. 734 00:35:39.539 --> 00:35:41.219 It was, wasn't it? 735 00:35:41.340 --> 00:35:45.360 Like, I think that is kind of cool and that's the sort of thing 736 00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:46.739 that we're going to see before. 737 00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:51.900 And so it is, I think, game and having childhood memories of 738 00:35:51.900 --> 00:35:56.880 watching the moon base, which is why we get the Spacey Zuma scene 739 00:35:56.880 --> 00:36:01.679 with everyone jumping up and down in an unconvincing moon surface 740 00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:02.340 set. 741 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:08.039 And then we get the sidemen coming out of the thing as what is 742 00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:10.800 supposed to be the high point, but again, it's sort of weirdly 743 00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:11.699 thrown away. 744 00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:15.239 It could have been really thrilling. 745 00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:19.679 It could have been like the fantastic March on the, like on the 746 00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:24.119 bridge of whatever that spaceship is, Beryl Reed spaceship at the 747 00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:26.940 end of... 748 00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:30.480 But somehow it doesn't have, it's not that exciting. 749 00:36:30.539 --> 00:36:34.559 It's kind of missing one of those long zoom ins on Peter 750 00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:35.579 Davidson's face. 751 00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:38.460 As he screams, no. 752 00:36:38.460 --> 00:36:40.199 Cyberman. 753 00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:41.820 Not my feelings. 754 00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:43.980 Don't get them in the shop. 755 00:36:44.039 --> 00:36:47.400 It's obviously like the episode pulls its punches a little bit 756 00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:51.239 because if that's what Neil Gaiman is going for, the cybermites 757 00:36:51.239 --> 00:36:52.320 should be the scariest thing ever. 758 00:36:52.380 --> 00:36:56.219 It should be like the cyber mats in Tomb of the Sidemen, which 759 00:36:56.219 --> 00:36:59.039 sort of leap onto you, and they look like some kind of leech was 760 00:36:59.039 --> 00:36:59.820 attached to you. 761 00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:02.880 Whereas what happens here when we mentioned that scene earlier 762 00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:06.000 where the doctor gets a handful of cybermites thrown at him. 763 00:37:06.059 --> 00:37:08.400 And we pull away into long shot. 764 00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:12.300 He turns and then he has he has prosthetic on. 765 00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:15.539 Like, I would have liked to see them and you're not going to do 766 00:37:15.539 --> 00:37:17.519 this in Doctor Who, but burrow into his skin. 767 00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:19.980 They could have done that in Doctor Who. 768 00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:21.059 Yeah, of course they could. 769 00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:23.099 Yeah, it is pulling its punches. 770 00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:24.420 It's just, I don't know. 771 00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:28.619 It's a bit depressing, but I just think it's kind of terribly lack 772 00:37:28.619 --> 00:37:29.159 cluster. 773 00:37:29.219 --> 00:37:31.320 The whole thing is kind of a bit mere. 774 00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:34.500 And it really shouldn't have been. you're right. 775 00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:35.760 There are ideas working. 776 00:37:35.820 --> 00:37:37.380 Nice, meh. 777 00:37:40.619 --> 00:37:42.960 I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself. 778 00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:48.420 I don't think it deserves the sort of hatred that it gets. 779 00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:51.480 I mean, Todd and friend of the podcast, Joe Ford and a number of 780 00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:52.920 other people. 781 00:37:52.980 --> 00:37:55.860 Yeah, all but they were all desperate to be on this episode 782 00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:57.119 husbands of Nathan Bottom. 783 00:37:57.539 --> 00:38:01.139 To rip it to peace. 784 00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:03.659 Oh, no, that is fun, isn't it? 785 00:38:04.019 --> 00:38:07.440 I don't know how you could get that worked up over this episode. 786 00:38:08.519 --> 00:38:14.219 Well, it is a bit like that all the way through 7B. In a way, there 787 00:38:14.219 --> 00:38:14.699 are episodes. 788 00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:15.480 Oh, really? 789 00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:19.440 We've got a new title sequence into series of episodes that just 790 00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:20.880 don't quite deliver on their promise. 791 00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:24.300 So, yeah, it feels like Cold War, this? 792 00:38:24.420 --> 00:38:26.760 Yeah, season, which is what, thank you. 793 00:38:26.820 --> 00:38:28.019 That's what I wanted to say before. 794 00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:32.280 It feels like a series of comic novel adaptions, as we now call 795 00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:34.559 them, or actually just comics, as we used to say. 796 00:38:34.619 --> 00:38:37.739 So there were some really good ones coming out at the time that I 797 00:38:37.739 --> 00:38:40.559 think Titan were doing, and James and I, I think, have copies of 798 00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:41.940 them and they're hardbound. 799 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.579 I can't remember the names of them anyway, but who cares? 800 00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:47.820 But there's, you know, and because there's more in them and the 801 00:38:47.820 --> 00:38:51.780 graphics of it all, yeah, these feel like comic strips for TV 802 00:38:51.780 --> 00:38:57.719 which can be a very fractious, thin line to draw upon because you 803 00:38:57.719 --> 00:38:59.159 still require. 804 00:38:59.219 --> 00:39:00.300 Jenna does it very well. 805 00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:01.260 Matt does it very well. 806 00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:03.000 Karen did it sublimely. 807 00:39:03.059 --> 00:39:05.340 If you're going to shoot like that and you're going to write like 808 00:39:05.340 --> 00:39:08.400 that, you've got to have the reactive shots. 809 00:39:08.460 --> 00:39:09.840 You know what it is for me. 810 00:39:09.900 --> 00:39:11.519 It's it's season 20. 811 00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:12.780 Ouch. 812 00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:14.219 So mean. 813 00:39:14.340 --> 00:39:15.900 We're back at the Ark of Infinity. 814 00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:20.519 Well, especially with the, you know, the shots there with the 2 815 00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:23.699 doctors in the sort of void space, that's very arc of Infinity. 816 00:39:23.699 --> 00:39:25.199 With better graphics. 817 00:39:25.260 --> 00:39:26.579 Oh, that's a horrible thing to say. 818 00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:28.860 Oh, the hard-on-kaleider thing. 819 00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:55.260 Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week. 820 00:39:55.380 --> 00:39:59.400 We'll be back next week to try and wrap up all of this nonsense in 821 00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:00.300 the name of the doctor. 822 00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:04.199 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts 823 00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:07.019 and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook 824 00:40:07.019 --> 00:40:11.760 at FTE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightTroughEntirety 825 00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:14.699 com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger 826 00:40:14.699 --> 00:40:18.840 Jody Interterterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek 827 00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:19.380 project. 828 00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:23.820 Until next time, remember that the future is stupid, despite the 829 00:40:23.820 --> 00:40:25.440 abundance of phone service. 830 00:40:25.500 --> 00:40:27.900 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 831 00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:28.980 Good night. 832 00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:29.880 Good night. 833 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:31.079 Good then. 834 00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:39.480 That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Otterley, Peter 835 00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:41.280 Griffiths, James Selwood, and Richard Stone. 836 00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:43.380 Theme arrangement, Break Hammer and Lam. 837 00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:46.559 These episodes, shot in a hurry, was recorded on the 26th of June 838 00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:49.320 2022 and released on the 16th of October. 839 00:40:53.099 --> 00:40:57.000 We'd like to apologise to those of you who tuned in expecting us 840 00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:58.260 to get our rant on this week. 841 00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:02.219 Be assured that we will all be well fed and well rested just in 842 00:41:02.219 --> 00:41:05.760 time for our episode on the caretaker, which will probably be 843 00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:07.320 released about May 2023. 844 00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:13.199 Sorry, what was the other thing? 845 00:41:13.260 --> 00:41:15.179 Jason Watkins? 846 00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:21.119 Yeah, the little guy playing the usual Neil Gaiman thing of, and 847 00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:26.400 it's very Decensian, and it's also very early horror, the little 848 00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:31.559 cute guy with the top hat, and he turns out, and then he's got all 849 00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:33.300 the face flash on. 850 00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:34.199 Who was that? 851 00:41:34.260 --> 00:41:39.179 So that's Jason Watkins, who I think is an extremely good actor. 852 00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:42.059 He's great in everything else. 853 00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:45.119 So I am the only person. 854 00:41:45.179 --> 00:41:49.440 James and I are the only 2 people ever to watch the English being 855 00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:51.000 human all the way through the end. 856 00:41:51.059 --> 00:41:51.900 Oh did you? 857 00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:53.519 Yeah, which is Toby Withouse. 858 00:41:53.579 --> 00:41:55.139 That's the show. 859 00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:56.699 He plays like a head vampire. 860 00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:57.300 Yeah. 861 00:41:57.300 --> 00:41:58.800 And he's amazing. 862 00:41:58.860 --> 00:42:01.800 I think I want to go and watch that He's also he's also in he's 863 00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:03.480 fantastic in comedy. 864 00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:06.360 He is absolutely terrifying. 865 00:42:06.420 --> 00:42:08.519 I've never seen anything like it because he's kind of like a 866 00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:09.840 doughy, middle-aged man. 867 00:42:09.900 --> 00:42:11.159 I'm right. 868 00:42:11.219 --> 00:42:12.659 We all are. 869 00:42:12.780 --> 00:42:15.960 He's not physically imposing in any way. 870 00:42:16.019 --> 00:42:23.340 Yeah, but he is absolutely terrifying as Herrick in being human. 871 00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:28.380 And so I was super excited to see him the 1st time I saw this, but 872 00:42:28.380 --> 00:42:29.820 it doesn't go anywhere. 873 00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:35.099 And he, I think he plays the kind of borgified version of himself 874 00:42:35.099 --> 00:42:36.059 quite well. 875 00:42:36.179 --> 00:42:38.159 You know, it's not much to do, is there? 876 00:42:38.219 --> 00:42:42.300 No, but it's not, you know, he's not playing it as a robot or 877 00:42:42.300 --> 00:42:42.599 anything. 878 00:42:42.659 --> 00:42:45.840 He's still playing it as a sort of version of himself. 879 00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:49.800 But again, it all just seems to be just, it all just seems to not 880 00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:51.059 add up to anything very much. 881 00:42:51.179 --> 00:42:54.900 So what was he in that I remember him from? 882 00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:56.280 in Psychoville series too? 883 00:42:56.340 --> 00:43:00.000 He, he collects Nazi memorabilia in a tournament. 884 00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:00.840 Not in Victoria. 885 00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:01.619 Yes. 886 00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:03.059 Yes. 887 00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:04.800 That's where I'm thinking of him. 888 00:43:04.860 --> 00:43:05.940 He's very gay in that. 889 00:43:06.059 --> 00:43:06.599 Yeah. 890 00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:11.639 Let's try and get it out happening because we've done now. 891 00:43:11.820 --> 00:43:15.599 I'm just a hard episode to talk about. 892 00:43:15.659 --> 00:43:16.980 Yeah, it really is. 893 00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:18.659 There's nothing very much here. 894 00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:21.539 Just wait till you hear next week's episode. 895 00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:26.639 Did we talking off about Angie and Artie? 896 00:43:26.699 --> 00:43:27.119 Yeah. 897 00:43:27.179 --> 00:43:28.320 Yeah, I think so. 898 00:43:28.380 --> 00:43:29.460 I think they're all right. 899 00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:30.900 All right. 900 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:31.739 What do you reckon? 901 00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:33.360 I think there's something, I'll find something. 902 00:43:33.420 --> 00:43:36.300 I mean, I think next week is the same problem. 903 00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:36.780 It is. 904 00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:37.500 What's next? 905 00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:42.360 Next week is the name of Doctor, which is just... you're recording 906 00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:42.900 that next week? 907 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:43.800 We're recording it now. 908 00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:46.920 It's just Moffat vamping. 909 00:43:46.980 --> 00:43:48.900 Like it's all of Moffatt's things. 910 00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:51.119 He's just vamping for 45 minutes. 911 00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:55.380 And because he's a good rider and he's got, you know, a great semi 912 00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:56.099 regular cast happening. 913 00:43:56.159 --> 00:43:58.800 It's watchable, but it doesn't really amount to anything. 914 00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:03.539 And like when you compare it to the previous weird single episode 915 00:44:03.539 --> 00:44:04.980 season finale. 916 00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:09.119 Um, which was also him sort of vamping in a way and relying on 917 00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:10.260 that regular cast. 918 00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:11.820 It's much better. 919 00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:16.679 It's much more interesting and colourful and stuff than name of 920 00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:17.099 the doctor. 921 00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:20.039 I mean, I think at the end of the day, the thing I enjoyed most 922 00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:23.219 about this episode was that Anginati was so middle class. 923 00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:27.719 Even after everything that they've been through. 924 00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:30.900 Artie's there at the end saying, this is the most fun I've had in 925 00:44:30.900 --> 00:44:32.820 my whole life to the doctor. 926 00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:34.679 I wish I could sympathise, auntie. 927 00:44:36.539 --> 00:44:38.579 That's our out. 928 00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:40.019 That's very true. 929 00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:41.099 Oh, yeah. 930 00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:44.639 See, there is that thing where the kids are sort of obnoxious. 931 00:44:44.699 --> 00:44:47.579 You know, like they, they, they, they get their way onto the 932 00:44:47.579 --> 00:44:51.539 Tartars and she's all, oh, the future is so boring and this is 933 00:44:51.539 --> 00:44:52.380 also crap. 934 00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:53.639 Put me down. hate you. 935 00:44:53.699 --> 00:44:55.320 Yeah, but then they're into it. 936 00:44:55.380 --> 00:44:57.659 Like there's supposed to be an arc where they discover that 937 00:44:57.659 --> 00:45:00.360 actually they've had fun and it's all been great and they're kind 938 00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:02.219 of good. 939 00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:06.900 Yeah, but their neocortex has been stabbed in front with whole 940 00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:07.559 wires. 941 00:45:07.619 --> 00:45:10.019 Yeah, and I love the fact that she has a space phone. 942 00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:11.940 It doesn't just say there's no connection. 943 00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:15.480 It has to flash up in big hitchhiker's letters, no service. 944 00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:18.599 All right, I'm gonna press stop.