WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:24:54

1
00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:45.420
Hello, Delissa, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that would have no objections at all to being appointed Queen of the Universe.

2
00:00:45.539 --> 00:00:47.039
I'm Nathan.

3
00:00:47.100 --> 00:00:47.939
I'm James.

4
00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:54.060
I'm Peter, and I'm Natty Longshoe's comical electrolytic spar and sauna for this one.

5
00:00:54.119 --> 00:01:09.359
Well, everyone loved the doctor's wife, of course, and so Neil Gaiman is back to try his hand at a script, which recreates all of his most resonant childhood fears, and which demands the credible realisation of about 3000000 cybermen.

6
00:01:09.420 --> 00:01:16.439
What could possibly go wrong as Angian Artie confront a nightmare in silver?

7
00:01:34.500 --> 00:01:37.140
So am I right?

8
00:01:37.260 --> 00:01:39.900
everyone hates this episode.

9
00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:48.540
There were people, there were people clambering over each other to get on this episode of FTE and get a good solid rant on.

10
00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:49.439
Is that right?

11
00:01:49.500 --> 00:01:53.819
Oh, I thought people were clambering over each other to get off this episode of MT.

12
00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:55.560
Most episodes.

13
00:01:55.620 --> 00:01:58.079
I mean I have some sympathy with the people who hate it.

14
00:01:58.140 --> 00:02:01.500
I hate it myself because it just doesn't rouse that much in me.

15
00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:02.280
Right.

16
00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:02.700
Yes.

17
00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:06.659
I think this is a very successful episode of the Sarah Jane Adventures.

18
00:02:07.379 --> 00:02:18.539
You know, I think that there is something. about there's something about childhood fear, which is a thing that Gaiman is very definitely into.

19
00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:26.280
And so we have these kids who have kind of inveigled their way onto the TARDIS at the end of last episode.

20
00:02:26.340 --> 00:02:30.180
And we're kind of telling it from their point of view.

21
00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:33.780
But then they're kind of suddenly sidelined and stuff.

22
00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:38.580
And so it ends up not being about what it probably ought to be about.

23
00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:45.180
This is the WC feels and he was actually, you know, when he famously said, don't work with animals or children.

24
00:02:45.240 --> 00:03:03.000
But what he was actually saying in the, you know, in the 30s films that he did, and some of them did have both of these avenues of thespian intern, is that they require so much absolute genius directing and then editing and very cautious, very, even with a brilliant child.

25
00:03:03.060 --> 00:03:12.659
And I did like the little girl Angie's sparks and her anger and I did like that they are actually both mirror selves of Clara's personality.

26
00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:20.520
I like posh little auntie, you know, he's got this terrible posh voice and he's a member of the chess club because of course he is.

27
00:03:20.580 --> 00:03:23.759
But then there's the cantankerous son of a.

28
00:03:24.060 --> 00:03:27.780
Angie, who is just, you know, the thing we all love to hate.

29
00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:31.740
But no, I just honestly think this could have been, it's almost there.

30
00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:38.939
It's maybe of Disney, it had Disney's production crew behind it and they're editing suites and their directors.

31
00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:43.139
Okay, I will say out front, I just think it comes down to time and directing.

32
00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:44.819
I think everyone does their absolute best.

33
00:03:44.939 --> 00:03:47.340
Matt doesn't look like he's being directed.

34
00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:50.699
So he's just doing it as Matt would feel he's doing it.

35
00:03:50.819 --> 00:03:52.979
It feels like a very competent rehearsal shoot.

36
00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:53.819
Yeah.

37
00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:57.000
I think that that's actually the problem.

38
00:03:57.060 --> 00:04:02.340
So the director of this episode has never directed another Doctor Who episode.

39
00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:03.360
Astonish me.

40
00:04:03.419 --> 00:04:11.039
Yeah, his name is Stephen Wolfenden, and he doesn't come back, and I think I'm going to say it.

41
00:04:11.099 --> 00:04:12.300
I think he's bad.

42
00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:19.139
I think this is a badly directed episode, and nearly everything that goes wrong with it comes down to that.

43
00:04:19.620 --> 00:04:24.120
This episode feels to me like a difficult 2nd album in the writing.

44
00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:30.839
So it's the doctor's wife was a pretty tight marriage between Neil Gaiman's brand and Doctor Who.

45
00:04:30.899 --> 00:04:33.360
This feels like Neil Gaiman without much to say.

46
00:04:33.420 --> 00:04:35.279
So it's pretty scattershot.

47
00:04:35.339 --> 00:04:47.279
He's got some ideas there, but there's nothing really driving it, and so it's tricked out with all kinds of diversions like bizarrely whimsical characters who don't really fit the narrative or drive it forward.

48
00:04:47.339 --> 00:04:49.740
And I think that that extends to the production.

49
00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:52.620
It feels like there wasn't really a tone meeting.

50
00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:54.959
So nothing's really on the same page.

51
00:04:54.959 --> 00:04:58.800
And so I don't know what we're seeing on screen, really.

52
00:04:58.860 --> 00:05:00.060
It's bizarrely unfocused.

53
00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:11.579
Yeah, I mean, part of the problem is, I think that Gamean gets such an incredible director and Richard Clarke in his last episode, he is relying on having a director that good.

54
00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:24.480
And like, you know, there's a scene kind of early on where the doctor puts Angie and Artie to bed and says, you know, don't wander off.

55
00:05:24.540 --> 00:05:29.459
Otherwise, we might have to go rescuing and or someone might have to go and rescue you or something.

56
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:39.180
And one of the kids says, you know, rescue what, from, you know, like there's clearly some sort of danger and the doctor refuses to say anything and he just leaves.

57
00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:48.899
And then you get Angie leaves and you've got auntie by himself in this room full of waxworks and it's meant to be terrifying.

58
00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:51.600
It's meant to be about childhood terror.

59
00:05:51.660 --> 00:05:58.199
And that's why you have sort of incompetent adults and people not telling you the truth and stuff like that.

60
00:05:58.259 --> 00:06:01.680
You know, if this had been more like night terrors.

61
00:06:01.740 --> 00:06:05.459
If this had been more about, like nightmares in the name.

62
00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:10.079
If this had been more directly about the fears of childhood.

63
00:06:10.139 --> 00:06:15.420
And if it had had a consistent aesthetic, it might have worked.

64
00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:31.740
Well, it suffers from the doctor's daughter, itis, in that I think, you know, we've seen many times in Doctor Who, in episodes like The Leisure Hive, and the girl who waited that are fairly unremarkable script can be totally brought home by the design.

65
00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:40.079
And what this needed was a consistent design ethos, something that made you believe in the fairly whimsical and bizarre world that it's producing.

66
00:06:40.139 --> 00:06:42.720
But actually, it's the doctor's daughter.

67
00:06:42.779 --> 00:06:46.680
It ends up being shot in a castle with kind of gels on the light.

68
00:06:46.740 --> 00:06:50.519
Yeah, it actually even uses one of the same locations.

69
00:06:50.579 --> 00:06:55.800
The barracks is the same location as the, as the, theatre.

70
00:06:55.860 --> 00:06:57.720
Yeah, the human's base, the theatre.

71
00:06:57.779 --> 00:06:59.579
Do you know, I actually thought that when I was watching.

72
00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:02.459
I looked and I thought, this doesn't really suit what it's going for.

73
00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:04.560
It's just like the doctor's daughter and isn't that funny?

74
00:07:04.620 --> 00:07:06.120
It's actually the doctor's daughter.

75
00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:06.839
Yeah.

76
00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:24.600
Actually, I think the settings and all the rest of it are very gaman, but it comes down to, you know, there are at least 20 I can think of hammer horrors, one of which stars, Adrian Corey, and Lala Ward. trying to remember what that one's called.

77
00:07:24.660 --> 00:07:26.339
It's about 97. leisure hive.

78
00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:27.839
Is it something about vampires?

79
00:07:27.899 --> 00:07:36.839
It's usually about vampires, but there's Zombieland came out a couple of years before with Woody Harrelson, which is almost the same plot, again, set in a fun fair.

80
00:07:36.899 --> 00:07:44.939
It's a grand tradition of similar going all the way back to Robert Vener's cabinet of Dr. Caligari, which we might have mentioned.

81
00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:53.220
I mean, it's really sound notions of how to set up a thing like this and get, do the drama happening and get the audience involved.

82
00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:56.699
And I sort of think it just maybe it's just down to rushing.

83
00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:59.519
I don't even know that the shots of the directors are actually all that bad.

84
00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:01.620
I think the cybermen are shot very nicely.

85
00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:05.279
There's camera angles that, you know, with the number of crew that you've got.

86
00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:06.899
The movement is gorgeous.

87
00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:08.519
He's got the speed working.

88
00:08:08.579 --> 00:08:12.360
A little child would be, you know, this is the thing with game and that I'm trying to say.

89
00:08:12.420 --> 00:08:22.259
He writes so beautifully. of children for children as readers, and I'm thinking graveyard book, which is actually one of my favourite children's books of all time.

90
00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:36.059
And the subtleties and the nuances that he expects from his characters and therefore from his actors is, I just feel beyond the actual structure of Doctor Who in the time they have.

91
00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:43.379
If he'd been writing for adult characters, I think we'd have a different, we just don't get genuineness from this and that's what Peter was saying before.

92
00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:54.120
I mean, if you look at the 2 children in the doctor, the widow, and the wardrobe, where you've got Lillian Cyril, who are well-defined characters.

93
00:08:54.179 --> 00:08:58.200
And it is an older sister and a younger brother.

94
00:08:58.259 --> 00:09:01.500
And I think that they're better defined.

95
00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:10.500
Angie and Artie, I think, the idea is that they're kind of naturalistic and they're, you know, Angie in particular is a sort of bullshy, annoying teenager who's not impressed by anything.

96
00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:17.039
And like that's kind of okay, but they're just not characterised clearly enough, I think, is the problem.

97
00:09:17.100 --> 00:09:19.980
And I mean, as for the setting.

98
00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:26.460
Like the crumbling fun fair is a great classic setting.

99
00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:33.000
We're looking back on childhood, on our own childhood, the fears that inhabited our childhood.

100
00:09:33.059 --> 00:09:37.320
So the crumbling fun fair is perfect, but it's one shot.

101
00:09:37.379 --> 00:09:39.899
You know, it's one effect shot.

102
00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:42.480
It doesn't feel like it's set in a crumbling fun fair at all.

103
00:09:42.539 --> 00:09:47.340
No, it's that modern Doctor Who cliche of basically looking out a door at a digital effect shot.

104
00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:56.159
And it just brings home how cruelly that opening scene, which is meant to be a moonscape, is actually just a corner of the studio with a bit of green screen behind it.

105
00:09:56.220 --> 00:09:58.019
Do you think that's a moon base reference?

106
00:09:58.080 --> 00:09:59.639
Yeah, of course.

107
00:09:59.700 --> 00:10:02.100
I thought they were going to do a cubric.

108
00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:03.299
Kubrick Griffin.

109
00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:09.240
I was getting a bit excited about that But the Hammer horror films that he's referencing vampire circuses, the Lala War.

110
00:10:09.299 --> 00:10:09.840
Oh, here we go.

111
00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:13.559
David Proud, David Pruss. in it as well.

112
00:10:13.620 --> 00:10:25.139
And the other one I'm thinking of is waxwork with David Warner and Patrick McNee from 80 from the late 80s, which is hilarious and looks, yeah, this has got really strong legs.

113
00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:27.779
They just, they just got crumbly knees.

114
00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:29.399
It's what you were saying earlier, Richard.

115
00:10:29.460 --> 00:10:35.580
It's so hard to bring in successfully, something which is meant to be about kids and scary for kids.

116
00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:42.720
So for every Willy Wonka in the chocolate factory, you've just got a miss like this where you think these moments, which should work, don't.

117
00:10:42.779 --> 00:10:48.600
Well, I mean, look at what Richard Clarke manages to do with Night Terror is, which is not a good script.

118
00:10:48.659 --> 00:10:53.100
I don't think, but it has not real proper look to it.

119
00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:54.899
It's so beautiful for sure.

120
00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:56.399
Yeah, it feels a bit fun.

121
00:10:56.460 --> 00:10:58.200
It's shot like a Cronenberg.

122
00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:07.259
It's definitely looking at David Cronenberg's early stuff and I'm actually thinking of the harsh overlighting and the saturation of the fly, which was actually a Mel Brooks film.

123
00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:08.639
Did you know that Anyway, yeah.

124
00:11:08.700 --> 00:11:09.539
No, it was.

125
00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:13.799
Millbrooks created a lot of those great schlocky horror things in the 80s and 90s.

126
00:11:13.860 --> 00:11:16.919
Yeah, the lighting directing.

127
00:11:16.980 --> 00:11:23.700
I honestly think it just comes down to, if you're working with children, you need a lot more time and some very judicial cuts.

128
00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:24.240
Yeah.

129
00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:28.320
It's the perils of bringing YA fiction to the screen.

130
00:11:28.379 --> 00:11:33.720
I was talking to a friend of the podcast about this episode last night and he said it feels like a live action cartoon.

131
00:11:33.779 --> 00:11:38.519
And I'd agree with that. got a very Scooby-doo feel to it, and I'm not sure that that's what Gaman was going for.

132
00:11:38.580 --> 00:11:39.779
No, it wasn't.

133
00:11:39.899 --> 00:11:41.159
Yeah, yeah.

134
00:11:41.220 --> 00:11:51.600
No, the sort of crumbling past its time, you know, dark, you know, a childhood that's sort of haunted by strange fears.

135
00:11:51.659 --> 00:11:58.320
It's all just too kind of slap dash, I think, in just the visual look of it.

136
00:11:58.379 --> 00:12:01.500
And far too grand a scale for what they can achieve in the top.

137
00:12:01.620 --> 00:12:07.139
Yeah, but I mean, if they'd given us that, if they'd given us that effect shot of the crumbling fun fair.

138
00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:10.559
And then we had seen them in there, do you know what I mean?

139
00:12:10.620 --> 00:12:17.700
Tider shots with actual sort of practical set elements that which placed them in that glass painting.

140
00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:21.840
Yeah, rather than just looking out at the glass painting. think it's a problem.

141
00:12:21.899 --> 00:12:30.120
It's the kind of story, I think, that they might have actually done better back in the 1980s in a Sylvester McCoy 3 parter because they would like the happiness patrol.

142
00:12:30.179 --> 00:12:33.480
They would have gamely approached making this fun fair in the studio.

143
00:12:33.539 --> 00:12:37.500
And it probably would have worked in that kind of that way that the happiness patrol does.

144
00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:43.259
And with that sort of the falseness, the facade of funfare would work really well.

145
00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:45.779
Good point, actually. with cheap sets instead of locations.

146
00:12:45.840 --> 00:13:07.440
Well, I mean, if you if you think about what happened in the doctor's wife, where you've got that crashed spaceship that is an effect shot, but that, the characters are interacting underneath it, they're integrated into that shop, there's a real proper sense of place, and it's the sort of place that this needed to have, I think.

147
00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:12.779
It needs to feel more like theatre in the way that the early German filmmakers.

148
00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:14.580
Nosferado is a 100 years old this year.

149
00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:15.960
I thought we were looking quite good.

150
00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:26.940
Is that you're working as you're both saying, Peter and James, you're working with flats, so angle them, play with them and harshly light them and make them surreal, make them hyper real?

151
00:13:39.659 --> 00:13:44.399
Actually, it's a question of timing, and, yeah, more time with the actors.

152
00:13:44.460 --> 00:13:47.879
Actually, the biggest letdown for me isn't the children.

153
00:13:47.940 --> 00:13:54.600
It's Matt being given a lot of exposition time and there's not a lot of pitch in your in what he's doing.

154
00:13:54.659 --> 00:13:55.259
No.

155
00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:56.580
No.

156
00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:11.519
I think the script needs the doctor and Mr. Clever to be indistinguishable from one another from the outside, you know, so Clara has to guess which person she's interacting with.

157
00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:15.360
But I think it's just a lot of effort to put Matt through.

158
00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:22.019
And I think he tries to make it watchable, but I don't think he's being given any direction, as you said before.

159
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:29.279
He's the over eager substitute teacher for this episode trying to win us all over and you're just trying.

160
00:14:29.340 --> 00:14:31.139
Oh, you just haven't got the tone right.

161
00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:37.740
I mean, we've seen that before, that multiple personality disorder effect where one person snaps between things.

162
00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:41.399
And I think Matt puts in a game effort to pull it off, but I'm just not sure.

163
00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:42.539
I think it's a tall order.

164
00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:44.340
No one really could.

165
00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:45.659
Was this shot in a hurry?

166
00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:46.200
This one?

167
00:14:46.259 --> 00:14:47.700
Do we know the history?

168
00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:50.279
I think it just looks like a...

169
00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:53.460
Because it is a 50th anniversary Cyberman story.

170
00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:54.720
That's a very special thing.

171
00:14:54.779 --> 00:14:57.720
I know, side man anniversary stories are always so good.

172
00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:02.820
Thank you, silver nemesis. we still love you don't we?

173
00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:04.860
It's even got gold in it.

174
00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:06.360
Yeah, yeah.

175
00:15:06.419 --> 00:15:08.159
Gold's back. cleaning fluid.

176
00:15:08.220 --> 00:15:10.679
Oh, yes, lots of lovely knobs.

177
00:15:10.740 --> 00:15:11.940
Lots of lovely knots.

178
00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:13.919
Of course, Neil Gaiman watched the moon base before this.

179
00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:14.820
Oh, yeah.

180
00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:16.320
And he probably watched it as a child.

181
00:15:16.379 --> 00:15:18.779
He's the bright age to a voice, doesn't he?

182
00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:19.799
He is a Doctor Who fan.

183
00:15:19.860 --> 00:15:22.799
Yeah, he said the cybermen were the most terrifying.

184
00:15:22.860 --> 00:15:24.600
Well, you know, people say this.

185
00:15:24.659 --> 00:15:26.340
But when has that been proven?

186
00:15:27.779 --> 00:15:29.879
You know, when you're five.

187
00:15:29.940 --> 00:15:40.860
I think this is someone pointed out, the 2nd time this half of the season has gone back to season five.

188
00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:48.240
You know, we've got Cold War doing a base under siege and now we've got this doing the Cyberman attacking a base.

189
00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:48.840
Right.

190
00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:50.580
We've got a lot of week next week.

191
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:56.580
And we know that Matt loved Pat Trouton's. work.

192
00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:57.059
So, yeah.

193
00:15:57.120 --> 00:16:03.600
I think though, I think that Cold War is boring is the problem.

194
00:16:03.659 --> 00:16:05.100
It's an unambitious script.

195
00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:06.899
I thoroughly enjoyed it because of that.

196
00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:12.059
I just like that it was an episode of the Champions that just happened to be a doctor. fair enough.

197
00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:20.879
I think this is more interesting than that, but it just works less well because it's something the show doesn't seem to be able to pull off.

198
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:30.059
You know, I think the thing that fails for me about this episode is that the doctor's wife is the Doctor Who story that Gaiman has wanted to write his entire life.

199
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.580
And it's brilliant.

200
00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:34.440
It's an amazing concept.

201
00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:40.080
This is Neil Gaiman as Doctor Who fan going, how do I write Doctor Who story?

202
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:50.220
Oh, I'll just chuck all of these sort of things that scared me about the cybermen as a child into a melting pot and it's just, it's a mess.

203
00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:52.200
It's a bit of a nothing burg of a story.

204
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:53.879
That's what I said at the start.

205
00:16:53.940 --> 00:17:00.899
The doctor's wife was a tight marriage between Neil Gaiman's brand and Doctor Who, whereas this is an open marriage.

206
00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:01.799
This is very loose.

207
00:17:01.860 --> 00:17:06.599
I think, I mean, there's a version of this story that nearly works though.

208
00:17:06.660 --> 00:17:15.480
If this is a story about Gaiman's own childhood fears, watching Doctor Who with the Cyberman in it.

209
00:17:15.539 --> 00:17:28.859
And because he does childhood fears, you know, that's part of his sort of brand, it's not hard to imagine a version of this, that's well directed and that coheres around that idea.

210
00:17:28.980 --> 00:17:34.559
And I just think the problem is that it's so flat and unambitiously directed.

211
00:17:34.619 --> 00:17:37.200
It's like those doctor versus doctor scenes.

212
00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:42.299
I see where that's coming from and I see how you might think we can rely on Matt to make this work.

213
00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:48.480
But the way that it's presented is a fantasy writer's idea of a sci-fi concept.

214
00:17:48.539 --> 00:18:06.960
And so when we go into Matt's brain and you've got the doctor and Mr. Clever talking to each other, the way that it's mounted is not that different from the Matrix in the Arc of Infinity, you know, things haven't moved on, there's no more visual impact to those scenes than there were in Arc of Infinity.

215
00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:08.160
Wait till next week.

216
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:18.839
How do we feel about the redesign of the Cyberman?

217
00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:23.579
Because I am going to, again, put my cards on the table and say, I really hate it.

218
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:31.680
Brendan pointed out to me the other day that this Cyberman redesign is basically the MCU's Iron Man.

219
00:18:31.740 --> 00:18:33.359
Yeah. he's right.

220
00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:35.519
It just needs a nice paint job.

221
00:18:35.579 --> 00:18:40.619
I think the problem is that it's so clearly plastic or whatever.

222
00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:46.680
I mean, the previous costumes are made out of fibreglass, are they?

223
00:18:46.740 --> 00:19:06.299
And they're painted with metallic paint because it was important for Russell, that they should be made of steel, that they were people in steel armour, and they were wearing the steel armour to protect them against their inherent vulnerability.

224
00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:12.960
And, you know, it's the emotional vulnerability that destroys them at the end of the age of steel.

225
00:19:13.019 --> 00:19:15.359
But they needed to look like steel.

226
00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:17.819
These ones look like plastic, I think.

227
00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:20.339
There's something that could work about them.

228
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:27.599
The idea that they're segmented in the same way that a cybermatch is that they could change form.

229
00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:32.160
I wanted to see them do phantom agents things and turn into bowling balls.

230
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:36.960
That's a reference for the older listeners.

231
00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:40.200
It's just not there's something that doesn't quite work about them.

232
00:19:40.259 --> 00:19:40.980
No.

233
00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:49.500
I think they're too slick and well designed, and as you say, they do look like an earth sets made in Hong Kong iron person toy that you'd see it that used to show.

234
00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:51.720
Yeah, yeah, that's right, a knockoff one.

235
00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:58.920
For the body horror that Neil Gaiman is going for, which again is an uncomfortable marriage with what we actually get on screen.

236
00:19:58.980 --> 00:20:01.019
The design doesn't really work for it.

237
00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:03.839
The faces don't look very skull-like.

238
00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:08.400
They look kind of like smooth, and as you said, Nathan, plasticky, and not very frightening, actually.

239
00:20:08.460 --> 00:20:10.619
It's a bit of a nod to metropolis.

240
00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:12.119
It's a bit of a nod to Fritz Lang.

241
00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:14.220
They have definitely a deco inspiration there.

242
00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:17.579
But they're also a 1930s car hood ornament.

243
00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:19.140
Yeah.

244
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:30.119
I think the featurelessness of the face is probably trying to hark back to the original look, and that's kind of fair enough, I guess.

245
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:32.400
I just don't think it works.

246
00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:35.279
Well, there's a reason we don't see them much more, isn't there?

247
00:20:35.339 --> 00:20:41.579
Well, except that they're going to be in the finale next year, aren't they?

248
00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:44.220
And they are those cybermen.

249
00:20:44.220 --> 00:20:45.059
And then we'll see.

250
00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:46.200
We've made them all.

251
00:20:46.259 --> 00:20:47.519
Yeah, that's right.

252
00:20:47.579 --> 00:20:51.900
And then we'll see all of the different costumes hauled out for the end of series 10.

253
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:57.480
Sidemen only get scary again when you bring back Sandra's latex body stockings.

254
00:20:57.539 --> 00:20:58.740
Yes, I think so.

255
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:00.059
Imp Mask.

256
00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:01.380
They are really terrifying.

257
00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:02.460
Oh, yeah.

258
00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:02.880
Yeah.

259
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:03.539
Yeah.

260
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:08.099
There's something about those 1960 sidemen where they're scary where they're up close to you.

261
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:11.400
So if sidemen in 60s get up close to you.

262
00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:15.480
They chop you or they grab you and they're big and they're overbearing and they're visceral.

263
00:21:15.539 --> 00:21:17.579
These don't look like any of those things.

264
00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:20.099
It doesn't look scary if it gets within 2 feast sphere.

265
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:23.579
In fact, when one does get within 2 feet of Clara and she swings that thing at her.

266
00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:24.480
It's pretty lame.

267
00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:25.440
Yeah.

268
00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:32.339
Yeah, and there's that weird effect shot of just like 1000s and 1000s of them marching in.

269
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:38.640
And I don't know how they managed to make that boring, but they really, they really do.

270
00:21:38.700 --> 00:21:39.779
It's so lifeless.

271
00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:42.180
So much of a climax, is it?

272
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:42.539
No.

273
00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:48.299
Also, plot question, and I've watched it twice now. trying to work out how.

274
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:59.400
So we're all in diaparel.com and Matt's covered in gorgeous 7 of 9 facial jewellery effect thing like is going to the worst pride festival time.

275
00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:03.240
Because it's going to get hot if you're wearing that all day.

276
00:22:03.299 --> 00:22:09.420
And then they're back on the set of the end of the world and everything's fabulous.

277
00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:13.019
And we've got Willow, one of Willow's mates.

278
00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:19.740
We've got the lovely Warwick Davies, who just makes everything warm and wonderful and really carries a scene just by being in the scene.

279
00:22:19.740 --> 00:22:21.839
I find him.

280
00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:23.279
I think, I don't believe any of this.

281
00:22:23.339 --> 00:22:26.579
Oh, but then this work, Davies, and actually he, I don't know how he does it.

282
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:27.420
He grounds things.

283
00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:31.799
Probably not just by looking at everyone in the room saying, I'm not buying your shtick.

284
00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:34.079
I think he is magnificent.

285
00:22:34.140 --> 00:22:36.420
I think he is really good and maybe the best thing about it.

286
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:37.319
Yeah, he is.

287
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:53.700
And I can't decide whether going back to the temple of peace and putting a viewscreen in is a horrifically bad misstep or a sort of delightful ignorance of how spaceships normally get realised in Doctor Who.

288
00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:55.859
And I might land with the 2nd one.

289
00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:06.539
It is kind of fun, and there is that effect shot, it's the spaceship flies off where we're looking into the room in the temple of peace, through the...

290
00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:07.259
Yeah, yeah.

291
00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:09.119
You know, like, I think that's kind of okay.

292
00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:10.920
He is really good.

293
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:18.720
And so it's that thing where he blows up the planet with the cyberman on it by using his A ghetto blaster.

294
00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:20.279
Yes, using the ghetto blast.

295
00:23:20.339 --> 00:23:21.779
Okay, that's ghetto blast.

296
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:23.039
Yeah, it makes the ghetto blaster.

297
00:23:23.099 --> 00:23:25.980
That effect is the most explosive implusion I've ever seen.

298
00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:29.579
Or of an unexplosion.

299
00:23:29.819 --> 00:23:37.559
Like, and I like how Angie is the one who works out that he's the emperor. pretty good.

300
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.920
And, you know, like that scene at the end.

301
00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:41.460
I don't know.

302
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:43.920
I think it's, it is strange.

303
00:23:43.980 --> 00:23:45.839
But I think it's going for strange.

304
00:23:45.900 --> 00:23:47.160
It is.

305
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:49.079
Warick Davis is charming. in the role.

306
00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:57.359
But the character, again, even in the constraints of this bizarre world that we created this universe, doesn't work.

307
00:23:57.420 --> 00:24:05.700
Okay, so he's the emperor and he's sick of ruling the empire, but does that mean that he wants to spend his days manipulating an empty cyberman?

308
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:11.819
Yes, sitting in a box playing in a mechanical turf. in a discarded fun fan.

309
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:14.400
How the fricking long has been sitting in that commode?

310
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:17.640
In the working bit of the commode.

311
00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:20.220
Yeah.

312
00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:22.740
It's not commodious at all.

313
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:26.099
It doesn't really work, does it?

314
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:38.640
But the world that this episode creates is one that I'm kind of weirdly interested in because it's a future.

315
00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:41.400
We don't know when it is or anything about it.

316
00:24:41.460 --> 00:24:42.960
We don't know where it's set.

317
00:24:43.019 --> 00:24:49.980
It's one of those empires that has a bunch of galaxies, you know, in it, so it could kind of be anywhere.

318
00:24:50.039 --> 00:25:01.500
You look up at the night sky and there's a massive hole in the night sky where they've detonated an entire galaxy and killed 10000000000s upon 10000000000s of people.

319
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:09.480
And there's a thing called the Siberia, and we don't know what it is, but it's like their version of the internet or Wikipedia or something.

320
00:25:09.539 --> 00:25:11.220
Or the Bork hive money.

321
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:12.000
Yeah, yeah.

322
00:25:12.059 --> 00:25:17.279
And we've got cyber mites, which I think that's...

323
00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:17.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

324
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:23.759
I would have liked more of the shot of them being tossed onto Matt, so to speak, because that is quite disturbing.

325
00:25:23.819 --> 00:25:25.740
It is, and that shot is just thrown away.

326
00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:29.700
It's like Captain blonde hair, lipstick's death, just thrown away in the ground.

327
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:30.359
Did you want to speak?

328
00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:32.819
Oh, really?

329
00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:35.519
I wasn't even sure she was dead.

330
00:25:35.579 --> 00:25:37.980
Like, I thought they were so poorly done.

331
00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:39.420
Is this a performance note?

332
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:43.920
No, Tamsin health, it was just sleepwalking.

333
00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:49.559
So she's she's a big name.

334
00:25:49.619 --> 00:25:50.759
She's EastEnders.

335
00:25:50.819 --> 00:26:00.779
Yeah, she was mellow in EastEnders, and it's that sliding scale of soap stars in Doctor Who, where you're at the very top with Tracy Ann, Cyberman, and Luis Germison.

336
00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:03.599
Well, absolutely, all that wrong way around.

337
00:26:03.660 --> 00:26:07.500
And then you sort of scrape the bottom of the barrel with...

338
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:09.000
That's her.

339
00:26:09.059 --> 00:26:12.299
And I don't think that Tamsin Hathwaite does very well.

340
00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:15.480
She's not quite at the bottom of the barrel, but she is looking at it.

341
00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:18.839
But that's where all the delicious fruity lees are.

342
00:26:34.140 --> 00:26:36.000
And in fact, I have a problem with that.

343
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:40.319
That string of characters that make up the punishment platoon.

344
00:26:40.380 --> 00:26:50.039
I think it feels like a tacked on effort to give these characters something to hang on because they don't really fulfil a function in the plot.

345
00:26:50.099 --> 00:26:51.720
They're not driving forward any of the ideas.

346
00:26:51.779 --> 00:27:00.839
I was waiting for Georgia Moffatt, McDonald, to swoop back in and rescue us all only to be cruelly disapporated, some point or another.

347
00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:02.279
It did feel a bit Jenny.

348
00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:02.940
Yeah.

349
00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:06.240
So they don't even have names. like one's called beauty.

350
00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:09.420
One's called brains, and the fat guy is called ha ha.

351
00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:11.519
I just call him the James Corden one.

352
00:27:11.579 --> 00:27:12.960
Yeah, the James Corden one.

353
00:27:13.019 --> 00:27:14.279
Like, Ouch.

354
00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:15.839
What is that?

355
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:17.700
I mean he does that, doesn't he?

356
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:19.079
Does it in the doctor's wife?

357
00:27:19.140 --> 00:27:23.519
The characters are called Idris, Uncle, Auntie House.

358
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:26.880
And yet all of that is integral to the story, the doctor's wife.

359
00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:29.819
I'm sure there's there's stuff that's left out of this.

360
00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:31.799
Maybe it was meant to be a two-parter.

361
00:27:31.859 --> 00:27:33.420
Maybe it was written as a longer.

362
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.500
There's just a lot of stuff to get through in 45 minutes.

363
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:42.779
But the thing is, those are character names in the doctor's wife, these are just descriptions.

364
00:27:42.779 --> 00:27:49.200
Yeah, they are. of what, what, they're plot functioning. because they don't get any, They don't get names in dialogue.

365
00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:50.579
So he just calls them anything.

366
00:27:50.579 --> 00:27:51.359
Yeah, like...

367
00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:52.319
Boy one, boy two.

368
00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:53.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, fair enough.

369
00:27:53.579 --> 00:27:54.720
Angie Artie.

370
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:58.980
It does feel a bit Eurovision, doesn't it?

371
00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:01.200
So what's your band called?

372
00:28:01.259 --> 00:28:02.160
It does.

373
00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:06.240
I didn't think that that gingerhead guy could act in skins and he can't act here either.

374
00:28:06.299 --> 00:28:08.400
And I didn't recognise any of them.

375
00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:12.359
I also still don't understand why it's a punishment force.

376
00:28:12.420 --> 00:28:14.339
I don't know why they're at a circus.

377
00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:15.299
Yeah.

378
00:28:15.299 --> 00:28:17.940
So they were put there.

379
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.460
So they had been in the army?

380
00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:23.700
Is that their understanding and they had refused to obey orders?

381
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:32.700
So the captain says that she had been given the order to explode a planet and she didn't do it before.

382
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:49.740
And so there's meant to be a tension between Clara and her, because Clara has been told not to let her blow up the planet and she's already suffering in this punishment thing, and that they're stuck here because it's the middle of nowhere and they can't.

383
00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:51.299
It's meant to be the army.

384
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:52.019
Yeah, yeah.

385
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:52.500
Yeah.

386
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:55.920
What do we think about Clara in this episode?

387
00:28:55.980 --> 00:28:57.960
Treading water very quickly.

388
00:28:58.019 --> 00:29:05.400
I do love how she's doing Sarah Jane Smith's season 11 accent of the episode.

389
00:29:05.460 --> 00:29:08.339
Yeah, it does rock off the game for a bit, doesn't it, doesn't it?

390
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:09.960
Isn't that Jenna's own?

391
00:29:10.019 --> 00:29:10.740
Yeah, I think.

392
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:12.180
Leaking through, yeah.

393
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:17.579
I think, yes, like she hadn't settled on it properly by this point where she was pitching the character.

394
00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:20.339
And yet Dodo got so much flag.

395
00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:22.799
And that was all from me.

396
00:29:24.299 --> 00:29:27.059
I think it's a little bit of a step down.

397
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:29.940
And is it because last week's episode was recorded after this?

398
00:29:30.059 --> 00:29:35.220
I don't think she's very well catered for. think she's very good. in last week's episode.

399
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:36.839
I think she's very good in this too.

400
00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:39.359
Again, it's what am I supposed to do with this scene?

401
00:29:39.420 --> 00:29:40.500
Look feisty.

402
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:41.880
Yeah, yeah.

403
00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:42.359
Yeah.

404
00:29:42.420 --> 00:29:43.440
And resolute.

405
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:52.799
And yet sort of vulnerable and is my, you know, and lip glossy and again, it all gets very French and so does very quickly, doesn't it?

406
00:29:52.859 --> 00:29:56.759
You could really say, she's the one with the pen knife in this episode.

407
00:29:57.660 --> 00:29:59.640
Yeah, it could.

408
00:29:59.700 --> 00:30:02.880
I actually would have liked it if it had I need more comedy in this.

409
00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:05.160
It needs something to rescue it.

410
00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:10.380
What did Graham Williams era, which everyone looked, you know, there was all those years later, I was like, it was terrible.

411
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:10.859
It was terrible.

412
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:12.539
I can tell you at 12 years of age.

413
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:13.920
It was fantastic.

414
00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:19.140
And the assides and the buffoonery and Tom saying, well, this is a bit piss, isn't it, Lana?

415
00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:20.759
You know, pretty much to camera.

416
00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:24.059
Or, you know, actually, he was doing that more with Mary.

417
00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:27.900
There was a whole lot of, we know this is, and it just worked.

418
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:30.359
You get a bit better and have some fun with it.

419
00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:36.299
It's because of that that interplay between the comedy and the horror.

420
00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:40.740
There's a lightness there, even if it's not deliberate, even if it's Tom Hamming it up.

421
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:47.460
The comedy, the comedy often actually works with, like with the horror.

422
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:49.440
It just, maybe this is just a rush.

423
00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:54.839
Do we know if Matt and Jenna, Louise were getting on really well?

424
00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:58.319
I mean, I don't think it was Matt and Karen, but then nothing was.

425
00:30:58.380 --> 00:31:12.960
And actually when I was watching it, I kept thinking that Amy would be a better fit for the Clara role in this because she would have played that kind of fish out of water, thrust into an authority role, but not quite able to pull it off in a more human way.

426
00:31:13.019 --> 00:31:15.660
I don't believe in Clara as a real person in this episode.

427
00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:20.039
Again, where umbrella did never to believe, and we keep being reminded she's impossible.

428
00:31:20.099 --> 00:31:21.900
It's not really a person.

429
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:36.240
It is a problem, I think, because the, well, because the mystery, and we've said this before this year, The mystery is that, in fact, there is no mystery.

430
00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:41.700
She's just an ordinary person and we find that out for sure. next week.

431
00:31:42.420 --> 00:31:49.259
I think, you know, because she's an ordinary person, that kind of limits how she can play it.

432
00:31:49.319 --> 00:32:03.180
She's a mystery, but an ordinary person and there's something hanging over the characterisation combined with the fact that it's all being shot out of order, which just means that it never properly lands, I think.

433
00:32:03.900 --> 00:32:07.920
And so I think she's fairly appealing, but there's nothing to the character at the moment.

434
00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:10.079
Because the character is the arc of the season.

435
00:32:10.140 --> 00:32:16.680
There can be no development for her over the course of that arc because it's all discovering the mystery of what she was in the beginning.

436
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:18.720
Yeah, and we still get that here.

437
00:32:18.779 --> 00:32:34.019
I mean, we have the Mr. Clever discovering the impossible girl and telling Clara that the impossible girl is her and something that the doctor's obsessing about and the doctor kind of tries to talk his way out of it.

438
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:36.119
I think later, but it does come up again.

439
00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:39.359
And that's got to not be gaman, does it?

440
00:32:39.420 --> 00:32:40.859
That has to be Mofford doing that.

441
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:49.859
Anyway, it just doesn't end up being very good and I don't think she's got this role. which is potentially interesting, but nothing really comes of it.

442
00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:53.460
Yeah, and I think that the episodes are shot later.

443
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:57.720
Obviously, were scripted later, and Mothat has a better handle on what he wants to do with the character.

444
00:32:57.779 --> 00:32:59.400
So we're a bit all over the place.

445
00:32:59.460 --> 00:33:01.019
It's season 19 Tegan.

446
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:03.180
Yeah, changing from story to story.

447
00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:05.220
So much so.

448
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:08.579
So which was this in shooting order?

449
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:18.240
I'm not precisely sure, but I know that the snowman, Crimson Horror, and the name of the doctor, say anything which had to do with Vastra and her group were all shot towards the end.

450
00:33:18.299 --> 00:33:20.339
Yeah, so that you can have.

451
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:26.339
So you can have those characters and lovely Richard E. Grant phoning it in as well.

452
00:33:26.519 --> 00:33:31.619
So they all had to be shot when everyone's available at the same time in a blog.

453
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:37.319
No, that's interesting because yes, there is a very different characterisation from the act from Germany.

454
00:33:37.380 --> 00:33:45.720
Yeah, and there's a consistency in the in the characterisation and the and the tone of all of those episodes as well between each other.

455
00:33:45.779 --> 00:33:49.019
And Jenna is very assured playing the snowmen version.

456
00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:53.039
So she's obviously hit on what to do with the character. how to present it.

457
00:33:53.099 --> 00:33:55.440
Actually, that's my favourite of her performances.

458
00:33:55.500 --> 00:33:57.480
And maybe in deep breath as well.

459
00:33:57.539 --> 00:34:00.480
She has moments where she's asked to just react.

460
00:34:00.539 --> 00:34:03.180
She's and I can see why she was cast.

461
00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:05.460
She's really brilliant in reactive shots.

462
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:07.079
Not everyone can do that.

463
00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:22.559
There is a bit of an obsession with cybermen's stories flashing up, like publicity shots from earlier, Doctor Who.

464
00:34:22.619 --> 00:34:23.519
I really loved that.

465
00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:27.420
No, not the Mind Pro. It was nice.

466
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:32.460
I could see pertly with one knee up, strapped to the table again, all of that stay of the Daleks.

467
00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:35.880
And they're gorgeous shots.

468
00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:44.099
And then they culminate with Matt Smith doing his terrific Duke of Edinburgh Award green into the camera.

469
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:50.880
Like, think about the way that it just rips off the design of Tomb of the Cyberman.

470
00:34:50.940 --> 00:34:53.340
In a way that kind of excited me.

471
00:34:53.340 --> 00:34:54.840
It was so exciting.

472
00:34:54.900 --> 00:34:57.900
We've got little half roundels you can climb up again.

473
00:34:58.019 --> 00:35:03.599
Yeah, like it's odd that that never sort of turns up and maybe that's a Moffat thing.

474
00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:11.519
Like in a year's time or so, we'll have a Dalek city that has the doorways from the Dale.

475
00:35:11.579 --> 00:35:17.639
I can't wait to talk about how, no, the external design is lifted from the TV 21 comics.

476
00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:20.159
James and I are a bit pash about.

477
00:35:20.219 --> 00:35:23.699
So there'll be more yaveling to come.

478
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:32.579
But the, you know, that scene where the cybermen, you know, all 3000000 cybermen are coming out of the thing is just that.

479
00:35:32.699 --> 00:35:36.420
3,30000, James.

480
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:37.559
How many was it?

481
00:35:37.619 --> 00:35:39.480
It was a very big number.

482
00:35:39.539 --> 00:35:41.219
It was, wasn't it?

483
00:35:41.340 --> 00:35:46.739
Like, I think that is kind of cool and that's the sort of thing that we're going to see before.

484
00:35:46.800 --> 00:36:02.340
And so it is, I think, game and having childhood memories of watching the moon base, which is why we get the Spacey Zuma scene, with everyone jumping up and down in an unconvincing moon surface set.

485
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:11.699
And then we get the sidemen coming out of the thing as what is supposed to be the high point, but again, it's sort of weirdly thrown away.

486
00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:15.239
It could have been really thrilling.

487
00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:26.940
It could have been like the fantastic March on the, like on the bridge of whatever that spaceship is, Beryl Reed spaceship at the end of...

488
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:30.480
But somehow it doesn't have, it's not that exciting.

489
00:36:30.539 --> 00:36:35.579
It's kind of missing one of those long zoom ins on Peter Davidson's face.

490
00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:38.460
As he screams, no.

491
00:36:38.460 --> 00:36:40.199
Cyberman.

492
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:41.820
Not my feelings.

493
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:43.980
Don't get them in the shop.

494
00:36:44.039 --> 00:36:52.320
It's obviously like the episode pulls its punches a little bit because if that's what Neil Gaiman is going for, the cybermites should be the scariest thing ever.

495
00:36:52.380 --> 00:36:59.820
It should be like the cyber mats in Tomb of the Sidemen, which sort of leap onto you, and they look like some kind of leech was attached to you.

496
00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:06.000
Whereas what happens here when we mentioned that scene earlier where the doctor gets a handful of cybermites thrown at him.

497
00:37:06.059 --> 00:37:08.400
And we pull away into long shot.

498
00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:12.300
He turns and then he has he has prosthetic on.

499
00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:17.519
Like, I would have liked to see them and you're not going to do this in Doctor Who, but burrow into his skin.

500
00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:19.980
They could have done that in Doctor Who.

501
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:21.059
Yeah, of course they could.

502
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:23.099
Yeah, it is pulling its punches.

503
00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:24.420
It's just, I don't know.

504
00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:29.159
It's a bit depressing, but I just think it's kind of terribly lack cluster.

505
00:37:29.219 --> 00:37:31.320
The whole thing is kind of a bit mere.

506
00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:34.500
And it really shouldn't have been. you're right.

507
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:35.760
There are ideas working.

508
00:37:35.820 --> 00:37:37.380
Nice, meh.

509
00:37:40.619 --> 00:37:42.960
I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.

510
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:48.420
I don't think it deserves the sort of hatred that it gets.

511
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:52.920
I mean, Todd and friend of the podcast, Joe Ford and a number of other people.

512
00:37:52.980 --> 00:37:57.119
Yeah, all but they were all desperate to be on this episode. husbands of Nathan Bottom.

513
00:37:57.539 --> 00:38:01.139
To rip it to peace.

514
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:03.659
Oh, no, that is fun, isn't it?

515
00:38:04.019 --> 00:38:07.440
I don't know how you could get that worked up over this episode.

516
00:38:08.519 --> 00:38:14.699
Well, it is a bit like that all the way through 7B. In a way, there are episodes.

517
00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:15.480
Oh, really?

518
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:20.880
We've got a new title sequence into series of episodes that just don't quite deliver on their promise.

519
00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:24.300
So, yeah, it feels like Cold War, this?

520
00:38:24.420 --> 00:38:26.760
Yeah, season, which is what, thank you.

521
00:38:26.820 --> 00:38:28.019
That's what I wanted to say before.

522
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:34.559
It feels like a series of comic novel adaptions, as we now call them, or actually just comics, as we used to say.

523
00:38:34.619 --> 00:38:41.940
So there were some really good ones coming out at the time that I think Titan were doing, and James and I, I think, have copies of them and they're hardbound.

524
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.579
I can't remember the names of them anyway, but who cares?

525
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:59.159
But there's, you know, and because there's more in them and the graphics of it all, yeah, these feel like comic strips for TV, which can be a very fractious, thin line to draw upon because you still require.

526
00:38:59.219 --> 00:39:00.300
Jenna does it very well.

527
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:01.260
Matt does it very well.

528
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:03.000
Karen did it sublimely.

529
00:39:03.059 --> 00:39:08.400
If you're going to shoot like that and you're going to write like that, you've got to have the reactive shots.

530
00:39:08.460 --> 00:39:09.840
You know what it is for me.

531
00:39:09.900 --> 00:39:11.519
It's it's season 20.

532
00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:12.780
Ouch.

533
00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:14.219
So mean.

534
00:39:14.340 --> 00:39:15.900
We're back at the Ark of Infinity.

535
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:23.699
Well, especially with the, you know, the shots there with the 2 doctors in the sort of void space, that's very arc of Infinity.

536
00:39:23.699 --> 00:39:25.199
With better graphics.

537
00:39:25.260 --> 00:39:26.579
Oh, that's a horrible thing to say.

538
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:28.860
Oh, the hard-on-kaleider thing.

539
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:55.260
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.

540
00:39:55.380 --> 00:40:00.300
We'll be back next week to try and wrap up all of this nonsense in the name of the doctor.

541
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:19.380
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook, at FTE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightTroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project.

542
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:25.440
Until next time, remember that the future is stupid, despite the abundance of phone service.

543
00:40:25.500 --> 00:40:27.900
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

544
00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:28.980
Good night.

545
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:29.880
Good night.

546
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:31.079
Good then.

547
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:41.280
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Otterley, Peter Griffiths, James Selwood, and Richard Stone.

548
00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:43.380
Theme arrangement, Break Hammer and Lam.

549
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:49.320
These episodes, shot in a hurry, was recorded on the 26th of June 2022 and released on the 16th of October.

550
00:40:53.099 --> 00:40:58.260
We'd like to apologise to those of you who tuned in expecting us to get our rant on this week.

551
00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:07.320
Be assured that we will all be well fed and well rested just in time for our episode on the caretaker, which will probably be released about May 2023.

552
00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:13.199
Sorry, what was the other thing?

553
00:41:13.260 --> 00:41:15.179
Jason Watkins?

554
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:33.300
Yeah, the little guy playing the usual Neil Gaiman thing of, and it's very Decensian, and it's also very early horror, the little cute guy with the top hat, and he turns out, and then he's got all the face flash on.

555
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:34.199
Who was that?

556
00:41:34.260 --> 00:41:39.179
So that's Jason Watkins, who I think is an extremely good actor.

557
00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:42.059
He's great in everything else.

558
00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:45.119
So I am the only person.

559
00:41:45.179 --> 00:41:51.000
James and I are the only 2 people ever to watch the English being human all the way through the end.

560
00:41:51.059 --> 00:41:51.900
Oh did you?

561
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:53.519
Yeah, which is Toby Withouse.

562
00:41:53.579 --> 00:41:55.139
That's the show.

563
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:56.699
He plays like a head vampire.

564
00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:57.300
Yeah.

565
00:41:57.300 --> 00:41:58.800
And he's amazing.

566
00:41:58.860 --> 00:42:03.480
I think I want to go and watch that He's also he's also in he's fantastic in comedy.

567
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:06.360
He is absolutely terrifying.

568
00:42:06.420 --> 00:42:09.840
I've never seen anything like it because he's kind of like a doughy, middle-aged man.

569
00:42:09.900 --> 00:42:11.159
I'm right.

570
00:42:11.219 --> 00:42:12.659
We all are.

571
00:42:12.780 --> 00:42:15.960
He's not physically imposing in any way.

572
00:42:16.019 --> 00:42:23.340
Yeah, but he is absolutely terrifying as Herrick in being human.

573
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:29.820
And so I was super excited to see him the 1st time I saw this, but it doesn't go anywhere.

574
00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:36.059
And he, I think he plays the kind of borgified version of himself quite well.

575
00:42:36.179 --> 00:42:38.159
You know, it's not much to do, is there?

576
00:42:38.219 --> 00:42:42.599
No, but it's not, you know, he's not playing it as a robot or anything.

577
00:42:42.659 --> 00:42:45.840
He's still playing it as a sort of version of himself.

578
00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:51.059
But again, it all just seems to be just, it all just seems to not add up to anything very much.

579
00:42:51.179 --> 00:42:54.900
So what was he in that I remember him from?

580
00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:56.280
in Psychoville series too?

581
00:42:56.340 --> 00:43:00.000
He, he collects Nazi memorabilia in a tournament.

582
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:00.840
Not in Victoria.

583
00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:01.619
Yes.

584
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:03.059
Yes.

585
00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:04.800
That's where I'm thinking of him.

586
00:43:04.860 --> 00:43:05.940
He's very gay in that.

587
00:43:06.059 --> 00:43:06.599
Yeah.

588
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:11.639
Let's try and get it out happening because we've done now.

589
00:43:11.820 --> 00:43:15.599
I'm just a hard episode to talk about.

590
00:43:15.659 --> 00:43:16.980
Yeah, it really is.

591
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:18.659
There's nothing very much here.

592
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:21.539
Just wait till you hear next week's episode.

593
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:26.639
Did we talking off about Angie and Artie?

594
00:43:26.699 --> 00:43:27.119
Yeah.

595
00:43:27.179 --> 00:43:28.320
Yeah, I think so.

596
00:43:28.380 --> 00:43:29.460
I think they're all right.

597
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:30.900
All right.

598
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:31.739
What do you reckon?

599
00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:33.360
I think there's something, I'll find something.

600
00:43:33.420 --> 00:43:36.300
I mean, I think next week is the same problem.

601
00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:36.780
It is.

602
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:37.500
What's next?

603
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:42.900
Next week is the name of Doctor, which is just... you're recording that next week?

604
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:43.800
We're recording it now.

605
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:46.920
It's just Moffat vamping.

606
00:43:46.980 --> 00:43:48.900
Like it's all of Moffatt's things.

607
00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:51.119
He's just vamping for 45 minutes.

608
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:56.099
And because he's a good rider and he's got, you know, a great semi-regular cast happening.

609
00:43:56.159 --> 00:43:58.800
It's watchable, but it doesn't really amount to anything.

610
00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:04.980
And like when you compare it to the previous weird single episode season finale.

611
00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:10.260
Um, which was also him sort of vamping in a way and relying on that regular cast.

612
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:11.820
It's much better.

613
00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:17.099
It's much more interesting and colourful and stuff than name of the doctor.

614
00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:23.219
I mean, I think at the end of the day, the thing I enjoyed most about this episode was that Anginati was so middle class.

615
00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:27.719
Even after everything that they've been through.

616
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:32.820
Artie's there at the end saying, this is the most fun I've had in my whole life to the doctor.

617
00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:34.679
I wish I could sympathise, auntie.

618
00:44:36.539 --> 00:44:38.579
That's our out.

619
00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:40.019
That's very true.

620
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:41.099
Oh, yeah.

621
00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:44.639
See, there is that thing where the kids are sort of obnoxious.

622
00:44:44.699 --> 00:44:52.380
You know, like they, they, they, they get their way onto the Tartars and she's all, oh, the future is so boring and this is also crap.

623
00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:53.639
Put me down. hate you.

624
00:44:53.699 --> 00:44:55.320
Yeah, but then they're into it.

625
00:44:55.380 --> 00:45:02.219
Like there's supposed to be an arc where they discover that actually they've had fun and it's all been great and they're kind of good.

626
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:07.559
Yeah, but their neocortex has been stabbed in front with whole wires.

627
00:45:07.619 --> 00:45:10.019
Yeah, and I love the fact that she has a space phone.

628
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:11.940
It doesn't just say there's no connection.

629
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:15.480
It has to flash up in big hitchhiker's letters, no service.

630
00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:18.599
All right, I'm gonna press stop.