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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:28:10

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Fly Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that just can't get 2 whole series completed in the time allotted and has to content itself with one.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Peter.

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Well, we've travelled from Scaro all the way to Transalore, and on the way we've experienced new kinds of Dalek, history's slowest alien invasion, some heartbreaking farewells, the return of a justly forgotten enemy, several different types of Jenna Coleman, ghosts, carjackers, Neil Gaiman on a bad day, Dame Diana Rigg, in all her glory, some old doctors we loved, and another old doctor that we've never even heard of before.

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So it's time to take stock and make sense of the last 2 years, which is why it's also time for our series 7 retrospective.

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Hello, listeners, and welcome to our retrospective.

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I'm always start with the hard hitting questions here.

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So Nathan, Brendan, Peter.

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Snog Marrier Void.

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Oswin Oswald, Clara Oswald, or Clara Oswald.

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Avoid all.

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Wow.

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I think I would have to snog Victorian Clara Oswald because she seems like a lot of fun.

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I would marry modern day Clara Oswald, but specifically the series 7 version before she gets Grim Dark.

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And I suppose I'm avoiding Oswald Oswald because she will shoot me in the face.

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I would marry Oswald Oswald because she can cook and she's good with computers.

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So we could bond over that.

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I would avoid Victorian Clara Oswald just to be contrary.

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Really?

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Because everyone loves her so much and I would snog our Clara Oswald because she has snogged Jane Austen, so I would just be 2 steps away from snogging Jane Austen myself.

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You got to be careful of snogging Victorians because their teeth might let them down.

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I would like to start here and now a movement to rechristen Victorian Clara as Beryl.

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Yes.

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Which was the character's original name.

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And in early drafts of Cold War, she's still called Beryl.

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That was my grandmother's name.

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Yeah, Stephen Moffat's got to hide it.

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It's his mother-in-law's name.

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Well, I would marry Beryl.

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I'm avoiding the Dalek, Clara, because she would shoot me in the face and I will snog modern day Clara, because she's been in a snog box.

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So there you go.

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There you go, yeah.

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All right.

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So there's a number of questions from our listeners.

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And I just want to read a few of these because they're all on the same sort of page.

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So, Rod who?

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Arsis, does Series 7 work as a cohesive poll with consistent themes slash arc, or is it better regarded as 2 distinctly separate seasons?

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Fraser Gregory, champion of the damned, at Felix Fraser, says, given the big gap in the middle and the change in companion, Tartar's interior, the doctor's outfit, an overall story arc that takes place from the snowman onwards, would this be considered series 7 and 8 rather than 7 A and 7 B?

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I'm not finished.

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The next two, Joey at Doco Ho.

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Was this the point where Stephen Moffat's workload was too much, and he took his eye off the ball this series.

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And Stephen Alexander says, are things going terribly wrong behind the scenes and does this show on screen?

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We've got a lot of changes in directions after this year, like two-part stories or one-part story, story arcs, individual blockbuster episodes?

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What do you think about this or are they just cosmetic?

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All right.

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Two different series?

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It is a single series, but it is definitely a series of 2 halves.

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So you have the 1st half of the series, which is finishing up the Amy and Rory trauma and, you know, ends in a horrible way and, you know, the doctor goes into seclusion and whatnot.

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And the following 2nd half is the doctor learning to have farm again.

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And yeah, in a way, it's a story of it's a story of a breakup and then a recovery from that breakup and learning to trust and what have you.

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And as much as I think journey to the centre of the TARDIS is one of the worst Doctor Who stories ever made, it does have that climactic moment where the doctor actually starts to trust Clara and then it's entirely erased.

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Well, entirely, because we do remember it later.

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Yeah, yeah, that's true.

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But yeah, it's dealing with the fallout of the silence arc and then bring the doctor down and then bring the doctor back up again.

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You can watch it and you can see that things are not going as smoothly behind the scenes as they have been for the last 6 series.

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I think that 7A is vastly better than 7B. Agreed.

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And I think it's because we have the 3 regulars together who we've had for 2 previous years who work incredibly well together.

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I think that there's maturity to the relationship between the doctor and Amy, which we've watched develop over 2.5 years.

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And I think that 1st half is actually incredibly strong.

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And even Chris Chibnell, whom I criticise sort of fairly frequently.

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There's a jar.

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Yeah, there is.

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It's full to burst.

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But I think he produces some of his best work.

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I think that the power of 3 is spectacular despite the production problems.

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I think to that, I've said this before, that Moffatt reacts against his previous season.

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And so his 1st season is what if a Davey season only by Moffat?

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The 2nd series is let's swap the beginning and end around and do something as moffity as sort of possible.

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And here he's reacting against that.

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It's almost like, I don't know, series 5 and 6 were good and he's going to react against it by not being quite as good.

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Certainly, the serialisation thing is present in both halves and different in both halves, but much lighter than what we've had before.

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And I think it's just a little bit less ambitious and I'd be lying if I denied that I was a bit bored by series 7 B. Peter.

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A couple of things.

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I think it does feel like 2 separate seasons.

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And as we've pointed out, it's because the 2nd half is weaker than the first.

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I think production wise, because the episodes were made in such a different order, it might have felt more like a cohesive whole, whereas this very definitely has 2 sides to it.

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I also think we missed 2 partters.

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And so there's no stories which have any real weight to them.

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A lot of episodes feel a little bit lightweight and a little bit ephemeral.

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And so you reach the end and you think, well, that was a season of episodes.

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I do think the Amy and Rory stuff is much stronger than the Clara stuff, but I think that could just be a factor of there not being that many strong episodes in the 2nd half of the season.

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It's like Cold War is sort of perfectly reasonable.

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There's nothing sort of massively wrong with it, but it's hard to imagine anyone putting it in their top 10 and it is not particularly memorable.

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I don't know.

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I think there is a big problem too, where you can kind of sense him spinning his wheels until the 50th anniversary comes along, and so it's a combination of Sherlock, I suppose, and the 50th anniversary where he just kind of takes his eye off the ball for a bit.

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It's also that poorly defined arc with Clara.

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It's a good idea to make her the impossible girl.

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It's a nice mystery to set up, but then he doesn't really structure it in the way that the season arc must resist making an archoke.

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It's not really the way that a season arc works because as we said with series 6, he just kind of sets up the mystery and then revisits the mystery every so often rather than moving it forward in certain percent.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Like, yep, yep, the pregnancy test is still up on the screen.

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Exactly.

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Clara is still an impossible goal.

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Yeah.

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I think another problem that makes the 2nd half of the series feel thinner is that the 1st half of the series is all about Amy and Rory's relationship.

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And as you say, Nathan, we've had time to get to know them, so it's meaningful.

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And in the 2nd half of the series, Stephen Moffatt has said, I can explore Clara as a character and what motivates her as a person, her conflicts, her dreams, et cetera.

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Or I can explore the mystery.

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And he chooses almost exclusively to explore the mystery.

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Like bells and rings of acaten go into her sort of backstory and her motivation.

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And then after that, they kind of go, okay, that's done now.

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And I think that is what makes it feel so much thinner.

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And the reason it's entertaining at all, I think, is down to Jenna Coleman's talent as an actor and also her chemistry with Matt Smith. because they clearly adore each other.

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I think, in a sort of Tom and Liz Sladen kind of way.

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You know, they bounce off each other and part of that is dialogue, of course, but the rhythm they get into, especially in things like Cold War, where they have the whole pyramids of Miles conversation about how time can be changed, how many times have we heard that?

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Basically every time there's a new assistant.

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And yet there, because Clara's sort of sitting up in her chair and looking around and, and, and, sort of being almost bird-like.

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There's a new energy there that I think is the most successful part of that back half.

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Well, it's interesting listening to all of your opinions.

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Yeah, it's definitely, it's the one season.

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It's like season 14 where you've got Sarah Jane's stuff in 1976 and then the BBC build, the 2nd half with Leela as a new season.

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Again, I agree with all the things that you're saying about the Clara arc.

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You know, it's light on in that 1st half.

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He does introduce it.

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There's that link there.

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I would have loved Clara to have turned up at the end of a town called Mercy in a stagecoach just having missed the doctor.

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You know, just something just to sort of link that a bit more.

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And obviously, as Nathan, you've been saying, you know, we've been with Amy and Rory for so long that the exploration of their relationship and we know that their time on the show is ending and those episodes are so strong in that 1st half.

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And in the 2nd half, I think the unfortunate thing is that we do have, as she was saying, Brendan, we've got turposodes that do explore Clara and that arc, and then he sort of leaves it till the end and a journey to the centre of the TARDIS, which just has that reset.

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And I think the problem is then none of the other episodes deal with that.

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So it seems light on.

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And I certainly think having Cold War and hide back to back isn't great, you know, because they're the 1st ones that she recorded it as Clara and the character is really not there.

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It's what Jenna is doing.

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I think one of those needed to go and we needed to have a journey to the centre of the TARDIS.

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And another episode where I think that should have explored that Arkmore, have another Clara turn up or have the great intelligence again.

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I think Crimson Horror does work because you've got the link to the whole gang that are there, right?

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So that does work.

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But unfortunately, you've got the ending of things like hide, of Journey to the centre of the TARDIS.

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Cold War is, I think, light on, and then you've got nightmare in silver, which I think is just appalling, right?

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Towards the end of like at the end, which dragged this 2nd part of the season down.

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So there are good episodes, but back to what we were saying or what the questions are asking.

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Stephen is doing other things.

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So his episodes deal with things, and there's only really one episode journey to the centre of the TARDIS, and it deals with Clara, and he had some, obviously, work on rings, but the other ones don't.

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And you've got other writers doing double shits.

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You've got Chris Chibnell, who does a great job on both episodes.

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One is better than the other.

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I would say power of the 3 is the weaker one of the two.

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They're both good.

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But they're both good.

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You've got Neil Cross, who delivers, I think, I really like rings, it does fall apart towards the end, and I think Hyde is good, but again, I find the ending and that sort of negates and it's very generic.

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Like, it's good to a point, but I just find it, well, you know, it's good enough.

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Yeah.

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And then you've got Mark Gators, who gives us a fantastic episode and then you get Cold War, which should work better than what it does, but I just find it very generic.

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Yeah.

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So he's actually spooning out to other people to do writers he can trust.

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And I actually think it's maybe 2 individual writers that let him down and he can't go and rescue those scripts to the same degree.

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There's a thing there about the storytelling.

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It's what one of our listeners was picking up on whether it's Stephen is too thinly stretched.

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That was Joe, friend of the podcast.

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Joe. Oh, lovely Joe. Okay.

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The storytelling in this season doesn't quite match. previous seasons, I think.

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It's quite chaotic in some scenes.

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There's a lot of scenes where it's the opposite of clear pacing and action.

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Like things just happen and people are shouting and there's things going on.

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And I actually can't follow what's happening.

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I'm thinking of scenes from Cold War, quite a bit of nightmare in silver, um, and some of dinosaurs on a spaceship where it's just sound and fury.

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And I think this really needed to go back to the drawing board, this scene, to work out what's happening because you can't bamboozle your viewers like this.

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Stephen was heading in this direction, I think, but it really becomes a problem, I think, in the 2nd half of this season.

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I think there is a thing where the arc storytelling in the Moffat era is different from the arc storytelling in the Davies era.

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So the Davies era is all about basically, you know, Daleks or the master or the cyberman.

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You know, his arcs are structured around who the big villain is for the series that he's introducing.

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Whereas Moffatts are structured around the characters.

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So it's Amy avoiding her wedding, Amy's pregnancy and her relationship with River and so on.

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And series 7 is about Amy and Rory ageing out of their relationship with the doctor, kind of outgrowing him.

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And eventually, Amy making a decision to follow Rory at the exclusion of the doctor.

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And so there's a big mistake in 7B of having a science fiction arc who is the impossible girl rather than, should I say, a space reason?

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A science fiction arc, which isn't a character arc.

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And so he deliberately prioritises the mystery of Clara instead of the character of Clara.

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And while that was okay in the classic series, it doesn't work in modern television.

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And so that 2nd half of the season ends up just not really being about anything interesting.

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And in terms of the classic series, you can have both because you had both with Ace.

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It wasn't anywhere near as refined as we would get with Russell T. Davies because they were always up against the clock, but basically they decide we're going to develop ace as a character and we're going to put these hints in and then we're going to do a story that explains that actually she's been manipulated, her bloodline's been manipulated since birth.

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But because we know who AC is as a character and we've seen her overcome fears and overcome adversity and express outrage at things she finds injust.

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We really care about that revelation.

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Whereas I feel like the only reason I care about what Clara is doing in the name of the doctor is because I just really like how Jenna Coleman is playing the character.

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It's a bit like, you know, I always say I love Mel.

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Really, I love Bonnie Langford because Mel is not a character on television.

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Mel is a slightly sedate version of Bonnie Langford.

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Yeah, what are you talking about?

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She's a computer programmer.

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That's a whole sentence near me.

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But it is interesting, I think, that with Clara.

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Like, she's just an ordinary girl in the end.

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I don't know, interesting is quite the word.

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I wanted it to be something more, and I kind of feel because it's so light on in episodes, you kind of, I kind of wanted more of a payoff.

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Obviously, he goes in a different direction with a brand new doctor we've never seen and that's where it's headed for obvious reasons, but I just kind of always felt like it was built up and I just wanted something more from it.

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And I also do think with going back to the character, like with Amy and Rory, we get their daughter, River.

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We get Rory's father, Brian, in the 1st half of the season.

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You've got a real family there.

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With Clara, you get Artie and Angie Maitland and her parents, Dave and Ellie Oswald, are literally just brushed over.

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Yeah, well, one of them's dead.

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And, you know, there is something to explore there.

195
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You know, she's someone who's been bereaved. and she's someone who has plans to go somewhere, but has put them on hold because because I think of that bereavement, because Angie and Artie have lost their mother, she's in there, in the place of their mother, we see her interacting with Mary, in Rings of Acherton.

196
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:45.059
We see her interacting with the kids in Bells of St.

197
00:18:45.059 --> 00:18:51.299
John and in Nightmare and Silver, but that doesn't go anywhere and heaps of the stories aren't about that at all.

198
00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:58.920
And maybe that sort of character background isn't the sort of thing that's productive of new story ideas.

199
00:18:58.980 --> 00:19:10.259
But there is an attempt to make her character have some definite characteristics and some background, but it doesn't go anywhere and many of the stories completely ignore it.

200
00:19:10.380 --> 00:19:13.200
And that's a pretty generic soapy idea.

201
00:19:13.259 --> 00:19:13.799
Yeah, yeah.

202
00:19:13.859 --> 00:19:37.859
But I just think if they did, if they had explored that more after those 1st 2 episodes that she's in, then I just think if we'd had another episode or 2 that had more gravitas in the 2nd half of the season and linking that to the, to the arc that's there, I think it would have lifted this 2nd half of the series more and you wouldn't come away just thinking, well, there's a run of episodes and there's, there's a link between everything and it's all resolved.

203
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:38.579
Yeah.

204
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:48.480
In fact, the problem is that the solution to the mystery is that she's completely ordinary and that's kind of boring and it's revealed to us in episode four.

205
00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:51.180
I think we know it's high.

206
00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:53.400
Well, yeah, we are told that in hype.

207
00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:58.259
But in typical Moffatt fashion, the series then spends the next 3 episodes going, or is she?

208
00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:59.880
I was like, no, she actually is.

209
00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:04.980
Well, I think it's typical of Moffatt to just reveal it's the most obvious answer.

210
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.500
It's like that's why Hyde is such an ordinary episode.

211
00:20:07.740 --> 00:20:10.140
Because I really like Hyde.

212
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:23.819
Something I said last week, which is a positive about Clara being, and I hesitate to use the word thin, but perhaps underdeveloped character, is that the audience can imprint on her.

213
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:24.900
Yeah.

214
00:20:24.900 --> 00:20:42.779
So it means in the name of the doctor, the fan at home, the viewer can imagine themselves stepping into save the doctor, which it's an idea that was used in the earliest video games. video game protagonists didn't have characters early on.

215
00:20:42.839 --> 00:21:01.019
And even at Nintendo in the legend of Zelda series, which is hugely famous, they still don't give Link, who's ostensibly the protagonist much character, and they're like, we don't write dialogue for Link, because when other characters are talking to him, we want you at home talking to the screen about what you would do, it doesn't impact the game, but it draws you in.

216
00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:01.619
Yeah.

217
00:21:01.619 --> 00:21:10.859
And to me, that's one of the strengths of this early version of Clara is that she could be anyone and she is ordinary at the end.

218
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:23.160
And something I'd complained about for Amy and Amy and Rory was, you know, all this stuff happens to them and everyone's so damn special as the old thing goes, and, you know, that goes back to Donna as well.

219
00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:34.859
Whereas the thing that's special about Clara is actually a McGuffin, and Clara herself is just an ordinary person who, at a moment of extreme crisis, does a noble thing that saves the doctor.

220
00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:38.099
Also, with the earlier versions of Clara as well.

221
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:52.920
Like both of them, like Victorian Clara, of course, you know, is dragged off the cloud and whatnot, so it doesn't have as much agency in it, but Oswin absolutely says, well, no, if I can't be rescued, then I'm going to help you escape and I'm going to blow all this up and I'm going to make it.

222
00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:57.000
So the Daleks don't know who you are, which was going to be very interesting for the show going forward.

223
00:21:57.059 --> 00:22:01.019
I'm sure. that device works quite well.

224
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:07.140
Like the sci-fi device of why Clara is throughout the doctor's history is actually quite neat.

225
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.180
It just lacks an emotional payoff.

226
00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:13.200
And so there's nothing for the viewer to hang on and sort of feel invested in, I don't think.

227
00:22:13.259 --> 00:22:17.339
I feel at the end of the season, like when she goes through all of his time stream.

228
00:22:17.460 --> 00:22:19.319
We don't see that enough during the season.

229
00:22:19.380 --> 00:22:36.480
Like, and that's what I would have liked more of a payoff, which is why I keep going back to having her appear as a different Clara a number of times, not just the ones that we've seen, like even in the same episode with modern day Clara, I think that would have been interesting, like it could have been more than what it was.

230
00:22:36.539 --> 00:22:43.920
It's funny that he doesn't send Clara back to the Russell T. Davis here to rescue Eccleston or Tenant.

231
00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:45.240
Isn't that odd?

232
00:22:45.299 --> 00:22:46.380
It just occurred to me.

233
00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:49.319
It would have been so much easier to drop her into the place.

234
00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:50.400
That's right.

235
00:22:54.960 --> 00:23:03.480
On Todd's point, you know, one of the Russian sailors, he, you know, he's got a picture of his girlfriend in his wallet.

236
00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:05.400
That could have been Jenna Coleman.

237
00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:16.380
Out on the Rings of Akaten, when they leave, someone could have turned around in the market, it could have been Jenna Coleman with pointy ears. trim me inside that glass pyramid.

238
00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:20.759
What makes you think she wasn't?

239
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:24.359
But no, that's, you know, that's very true, Brendan.

240
00:23:24.420 --> 00:23:30.359
Yeah, like little things like that would just add more depth and resonance to this art. and I think it would help.

241
00:23:30.420 --> 00:23:33.059
Must not make a joke about the artist.

242
00:23:33.539 --> 00:23:40.259
Do you remember in time of the doctor where Clara describes herself as a bossy control freak.

243
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:48.539
And I remember being shocked and it's kind of like, oh, so that's what we're going for with this character because there's no sign of that at all.

244
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:51.480
Only in Nightmare in Silver.

245
00:23:51.539 --> 00:23:53.099
She's a different character.

246
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:54.299
That's where she's bossy, right?

247
00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:54.660
Right.

248
00:23:54.660 --> 00:24:00.539
Then we've got Hyde and Cold War where the character doesn't have the same character either, right?

249
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.480
So there's all these different things happening.

250
00:24:03.539 --> 00:24:05.160
It's Jenna's performance that brings it all together.

251
00:24:05.220 --> 00:24:08.519
But nightmare in soap is the one thing where that's showing where it's going to go.

252
00:24:09.059 --> 00:24:12.119
Bob Gilby asks this question.

253
00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:15.180
Hey, is Clara is Clara's story done?

254
00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:17.160
Should she have ended her time with the name of the doctor?

255
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:22.500
No, I don't think so.

256
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:34.680
I mean, I think Clara stays for a bit longer than most of us would like, and I can understand why because I think Jenna's very good and I think she's particularly good with Capaldi.

257
00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:42.059
So I can see why he doesn't kind of say no, dear, you know, you've had your thing, don't come back after last Christmas.

258
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:43.380
Like, I can understand that.

259
00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:47.460
And Moffatt manages to keep the companions for longer than Davies managers.

260
00:24:47.519 --> 00:25:11.160
So I'm happy that she goes on and I think that she gets quite a good story arc in series 8, except for one very crucial episode. that kind of triangle between her and Capoldi and Danny and her having to kind of balance having a relationship with both of them in this sort of strange way.

261
00:25:11.220 --> 00:25:14.579
I think there's some real energy and interest to that.

262
00:25:14.700 --> 00:25:19.559
And so I think she is served well by series 8 and I would be sorry not to have her in.

263
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:35.880
I think Clara, as we know her, should have left at the end of name of the doctor or time of the doctor, but faced with either bringing in a new character or doing something with Clara and sort of bringing her qualities like you were saying, Brendan, that she doesn't really have so far so the audience can imprint on her.

264
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:45.359
Faced with that, Stephen decides to tackle the character and I think turns her into a slightly different Clara next season, but a much better character.

265
00:25:45.420 --> 00:25:46.799
So no, she shouldn't have left.

266
00:25:46.859 --> 00:25:51.960
And she's got a crucial job in the 50th anniversary special as well.

267
00:25:52.019 --> 00:25:56.519
And that needs to be a character that we know who knows the doctor.

268
00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:07.259
And with David Dr. and I won't say much about this, but that's when she really starts to me to feel like a fully fleshed out character.

269
00:26:07.259 --> 00:26:13.319
And I'm thinking particularly of the scene where the doors unlocked, you could have got out any time.

270
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:15.180
And she just bursts into, they're like, how did you do that?

271
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:16.140
Doors unlocked.

272
00:26:16.619 --> 00:26:23.460
And also, like, you know, tenant flirting with her and she's just looking at him like, you're doing this now?

273
00:26:24.900 --> 00:26:27.000
No, I agree with you all.

274
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:36.960
I think that, yes, you should have stayed and I think the next couple of episodes show why. and where that takes the character, whether you like it or not.

275
00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:47.880
Yes, she probably did overstay her time, but I think having another year with her and certainly Matt's decision to leave, I think it's the right decision to keep Clara on and keep Gener on.

276
00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:50.160
Yeah, her time should not have ended at this point.

277
00:26:50.220 --> 00:26:58.140
The thing that Moffatt does at the beginning of his run, which is start the show with no characters that we have even met before.

278
00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:01.380
We've got a new doctor and new companions and new everything.

279
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:13.140
That's something that should only be attempted, I think, in very special circumstances, and Moffatt absolutely nails it in the 11th hour.

280
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:17.579
But if you can have some people to ease the transition, you should.

281
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:20.519
And so she does need to be there for the regeneration, I think.

282
00:27:20.579 --> 00:27:33.779
That's why it makes Clara and Rose quite special characters in the Doctor Who Canon because you're an important companion if you're there to witness a regeneration and deal with the new doctor and they both get that function.

283
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:35.579
Or you're Perry.

284
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:37.319
Perry, absolutely.

285
00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:39.000
Ben and Polly.

286
00:27:39.059 --> 00:27:39.779
Yeah.

287
00:27:39.779 --> 00:27:52.140
I mean, look, don't forget that Nicola Bryant wrote like a 7 page backstory for Perry and why she's travelling with the doctor because her deceased father looks like Peter Davison and then JNT's like, oh, that's wonderful.

288
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:54.839
By the way, Peter's leaving.

289
00:27:54.900 --> 00:27:57.240
So your father's getting a face leave.

290
00:27:57.299 --> 00:27:58.440
Your mom's getting a face.

291
00:27:58.500 --> 00:28:10.019
And the great thing about Nicola, is she then pivots and goes, well, right, then the reason Perry stays is because the doctor saved her life and she needs to return the favour and that's going to work out so... much like Clara.

292
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:10.619
Anyway.

293
00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:13.019
Talking of companions leaving.

294
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:16.619
Another listener question from our good friend Eric Stadnick.

295
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:21.539
In my head, Cannon, Rivers' book tells a false story about Amy and Rory.

296
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:29.160
In my reality, the ponds end up having a miserable existence in the past, and river lies to the doctor, happy.

297
00:28:29.220 --> 00:28:30.839
It's called marriage, et cetera.

298
00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:34.500
I just find the ending to pat otherwise, thoughts.

299
00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:38.039
I'm just thinking I can imagine that in Eric's voice.

300
00:28:38.099 --> 00:28:44.039
That's I can just imagine that I can hear the disdain in your voice, Eric.

301
00:28:44.099 --> 00:28:51.059
That's fantastic I think that I, look, I said this so many times before.

302
00:28:51.119 --> 00:29:00.420
I really just wanted them to age out and I wanted the relationship to end the way that the relationship with Martha ended and I would have liked that.

303
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:08.279
I think it would have worked thematically with the idea that, you know, the 1st series is about Amy's marriage.

304
00:29:08.339 --> 00:29:14.460
The 2nd series is about parenthood and growing up and the 3rd series is more about just growing up in ordinary life.

305
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.519
So I would have liked that better.

306
00:29:17.579 --> 00:29:26.099
I can see that they do something more heartbreaking than that because it's TV drama, you know, bad things happen to people.

307
00:29:26.339 --> 00:29:35.220
I am still ambiguous about the ending, but if anything, I want it to be better than what we get rather than worse.

308
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:42.240
So I'm still worried that they don't have access to Wi-Fi or probably indoor plumbing or God knows what.

309
00:29:42.299 --> 00:29:43.440
To live through the depression.

310
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:45.599
Garlics in Manhattan.

311
00:29:46.380 --> 00:29:48.720
That'd be quite fun, though.

312
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:51.359
Having a microwave oven for so many years.

313
00:29:51.420 --> 00:29:52.319
Grief.

314
00:29:52.380 --> 00:29:53.220
What would I do without it?

315
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:53.460
it?

316
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:58.259
Brendan, didn't you have a different sequence of episodes for series 7 A at some point?

317
00:29:58.319 --> 00:29:59.279
Yeah, yeah.

318
00:29:59.339 --> 00:30:06.299
I thought to myself that I would personally start series 7, A, with dinosaurs on a spaceship.

319
00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:16.259
And so, you know, you still get the landing around them and Brian comes along and what have you, but the doctor can tell throughout that something's up with Amy and Rory what's going on, right?

320
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:22.019
And at the end, Lancetardis back, drops Brian out and says, you two, over here now, what's going on?

321
00:30:22.019 --> 00:30:24.900
And they tell him, you know, we're going to get a separation.

322
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:28.440
He's like, absolutely not, takes off again and you have a town called Mercy.

323
00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:30.720
And so he's kidnapped them.

324
00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:32.759
They're Ian and Barbara for a few episodes.

325
00:30:32.819 --> 00:30:43.259
Then you have Asylum of the Daleks, because I always felt the problem with Asylum of the Daleks, is you had no buildup to the separation and the tension and what have you, and it was all resolved in one episode.

326
00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:48.480
Then, celebration, you know, let's go to New York for your 2nd honeymoon.

327
00:30:48.539 --> 00:30:49.980
Angels in Manhattan.

328
00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:56.099
They almost get separated the way that happens at the end and the doctor's like, well, this is terrible.

329
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:59.339
I'm taking you home, takes them home and you have the power of three.

330
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:00.539
They've been away for a year.

331
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:02.519
All these cubes have appeared, blah, blah, blah.

332
00:31:02.579 --> 00:31:08.160
And at the end of that, when you have the discussion and Brian says, no, no, no, they can go with you if they want.

333
00:31:08.220 --> 00:31:12.480
Amy and Rory then say, actually, doctor, like you say, Nathan, maybe...

334
00:31:12.539 --> 00:31:20.460
Yeah, make it a proper mature choice because, you know, it is a mature choice and it is absolutely beautiful that Amy chooses to be with Rory.

335
00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:25.980
But to make it that exclusionary, for me, cheapens the choice.

336
00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:51.059
Because the choice to say, doctor, we know you can come back at any time, but please don't, is a more mature choice and it's more heartbreaking, but I suppose it's more heartbreaking from an adult perspective and the children at home, and we need to remember Doctor Who is a show that needs to be understandable by 5 to 12 year olds as well as by people who were 5 to 12 year olds when Sylvester McCoy was on.

337
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:54.900
For the children, they need it to be, no, this is definite.

338
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:56.579
This is final rather than just cerebral.

339
00:31:56.640 --> 00:31:58.259
So I understand the way they did it that way.

340
00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:02.400
But when I put those in that order, I feel more satisfied.

341
00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:14.460
I think in Doctor Who, the thing is, though, the problem with what I wanted to happen with what you wanted to happen is the decision to say, actually, Doctor, don't come back.

342
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:16.079
That's terrible.

343
00:32:16.140 --> 00:32:17.759
Who's going to do that?

344
00:32:17.819 --> 00:32:19.619
It's the wrong decision.

345
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:22.680
It's always the wrong decision because travelling with the doctor is great.

346
00:32:22.740 --> 00:32:25.680
And that's what we want to do forever.

347
00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:28.440
And so they lose our sympathy a bit, don't they?

348
00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:28.980
Yeah.

349
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:33.480
But it's also a problem that the series almost goes there twice and does it very well.

350
00:32:33.539 --> 00:32:38.519
It doesn't, the God complex, and then it does it in the power of three, and both times it feels right.

351
00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:44.579
So then to come back a 3rd time and have a space reason. that they can't travel with, the doctor feels like a bit of a cheese.

352
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:53.579
It is a space reason, but it is also a definite decision and it's a different decision than we see Amy make at the very beginning, which is Rory, not the doctor.

353
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:57.420
And even though that's a foregone conclusion from Amy's choice onward.

354
00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:00.720
I can see why that's how we end that relationship.

355
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:05.640
And, you know, it's the saying that love and commitment is a decision you make every day.

356
00:33:05.819 --> 00:33:10.500
So it is okay to have Amy reiterate that that is her choice.

357
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:17.759
And I'm a lot less angry about series 7 A now than I was 10 years ago when it was on.

358
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:24.960
And angry is perhaps too strong a word, but I sat there after the 5 episodes and I just went, but, but, but, there's ferries.

359
00:33:25.380 --> 00:33:32.460
Is it not a headspin to think that asylum of the Daleks is as distant now as the horns of Nymon was from survival.

360
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:33.720
Oh my god.

361
00:33:33.779 --> 00:33:36.900
Thank you for that little bit of...

362
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:37.980
I now feel really ancient.

363
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:40.859
Really ancient, qualitatively as well.

364
00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:44.519
I like all that you're saying, you know?

365
00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:45.960
I think in the new series.

366
00:33:46.019 --> 00:34:00.720
It's very hard to have that choice to walk away from the doctor in modern television and everybody's going to travel with a doctor forever and like you, Brendan, I was not happy the 1st time through with those choices.

367
00:34:00.779 --> 00:34:02.220
I like your order of things.

368
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:06.779
A lot, but I could totally understand why they've gone for that and there has to be a definite out.

369
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:07.140
Yeah.

370
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:09.059
It's a problem with the show, isn't it?

371
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:16.079
Once the doctor regains control of the Tartars, there's no reason why companions should ever leave at all or why they should never see him again.

372
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:21.179
And we have to make up reasons like, you know, David Tennant's doctors a bit horrible.

373
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:24.119
So he just never went back to see anyone or whatever.

374
00:34:24.420 --> 00:34:36.420
The other side of that is I notice on like Doctor Who Facebook groups and whatnot, people who came to Doctor Who with the new series discovering the old series and watching things like the chase and going, hold on, why do they need to take another ship?

375
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:37.860
Why can't the doctor just take them home?

376
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:42.300
I was like, because controlling the Tatars is a new thing.

377
00:34:42.539 --> 00:34:49.800
And yeah, really, the doctor really properly gains control of the time is in the 80s.

378
00:34:49.860 --> 00:34:51.239
Yeah, yeah.

379
00:34:51.300 --> 00:34:59.280
And so when Davison's companions leave, it's a definitive, no, no, no, this is my choice and I'm going, when Perry leaves, it's no one's choice.

380
00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:02.760
When Mel leaves, it's contract roulette.

381
00:35:02.820 --> 00:35:08.340
And the plan for Ace leaving was going to be a mutual choice between her and the doctor.

382
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:15.900
You know, each time, yeah, it has to be a choice rather than just the sort of 60s and 70s companions where it's like, well, this is the best I'm going to get.

383
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:17.639
It's the new console, isn't it?

384
00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:18.900
It's the 5 doctors console.

385
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:19.920
Suddenly, the Tartis works.

386
00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:21.000
Yeah, yeah.

387
00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:27.000
It's funny to think like the 1st time he actually intentionally tries to go anywhere is the moon base.

388
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:29.400
Okay, that's the first, and he fails.

389
00:35:29.460 --> 00:35:31.019
He's trying to go to Mars, isn't he?

390
00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:31.800
Yeah, yeah.

391
00:35:41.699 --> 00:35:44.760
Well, I think it's time for a smoke marrying void.

392
00:35:44.820 --> 00:35:48.300
So, um, here's one for you, Brendan.

393
00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:50.460
Stock Mary avoid.

394
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:51.119
Isaac?

395
00:35:51.179 --> 00:35:52.800
That's Ben Browder.

396
00:35:52.860 --> 00:35:53.460
Okay.

397
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:55.619
John Riddell, Rupert Graves.

398
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:56.039
Oh, yeah.

399
00:35:56.039 --> 00:35:58.320
Oh, Professor Alec Palmer, Doug Ray Scott.

400
00:35:58.619 --> 00:36:00.059
Right.

401
00:36:00.179 --> 00:36:04.380
He gets the 3 most handsome men in the entire series.

402
00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:05.099
Why is that?

403
00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:06.900
Am I going to be snogging a...

404
00:36:06.900 --> 00:36:09.659
I can tell you now, darling. mutant or something?

405
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:13.079
You're going to be snogging Mr. Sweet.

406
00:36:13.139 --> 00:36:14.219
I can guarantee it.

407
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:15.900
You've got Doreen.

408
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:22.679
Okay, so that was Riddell, Isaac and Dugray Scott.

409
00:36:22.739 --> 00:36:23.699
Alec Palmer.

410
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:26.880
Ah, right, I am going to marry Ben Browder.

411
00:36:26.940 --> 00:36:28.260
I'm going to marry Isaac.

412
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:30.659
Because Ben Brown is hilarious.

413
00:36:30.659 --> 00:36:31.739
And hot.

414
00:36:31.739 --> 00:36:32.340
And hot.

415
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:34.980
I'm definitely going to snog do Grace Scott, though.

416
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:36.780
He's been on the side.

417
00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:38.880
He was going to be Wolverine before Hugh Jackman.

418
00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:40.980
But he chose to do Mission Impossible 2 instead.

419
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:41.519
How did that work?

420
00:36:41.579 --> 00:36:43.019
Because he chose to do hide.

421
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:47.099
Batgirl.

422
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:53.639
Which means I'm somewhat reluctantly avoiding Rupert Graves.

423
00:36:53.699 --> 00:36:58.500
You know, it's not, it's not a kind of, I hate him.

424
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:00.119
It's just there has to be a 3rd place.

425
00:37:00.179 --> 00:37:01.380
He's a bit sexist.

426
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:07.260
And yeah, he is a bit sexist and also, I don't do well in warm weather.

427
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:10.739
So, you know, at least, at least with Isaac in Mercy.

428
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:11.579
It's a dry heat.

429
00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:12.239
Yeah.

430
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:13.500
So I should be okay.

431
00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:14.099
So there you go.

432
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:16.800
I thought Rupert Gray would have made a great doctor back in the day.

433
00:37:16.860 --> 00:37:19.139
Yeah, I really, really like him.

434
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:21.480
Yeah, he's really charming, isn't he?

435
00:37:21.539 --> 00:37:22.860
Totally.

436
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:25.440
So on that point, Snog Mario, void Nathan.

437
00:37:25.500 --> 00:37:28.860
Queen Nefatiti, Emma Greyling, or Ms. Kislet.

438
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:30.539
Oh, you've got a good selection.

439
00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:32.280
Oh, I would marry Miss Kisler.

440
00:37:32.460 --> 00:37:34.619
Like, she's fabulous.

441
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:37.559
That's Celia Imory and her son is in Star Trek.

442
00:37:37.619 --> 00:37:38.880
Oh, so she's got a badge.

443
00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:41.400
I could fan girl.

444
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:44.340
Look, like Celia Imory is in Star Wars.

445
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:47.699
Her son is a regular on Star Trek prodigy.

446
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:53.519
I would just be fangirly 24 hours a day, so I am absolutely marrying Miss Kisler.

447
00:37:53.579 --> 00:38:03.300
Um, I'm going to snog uh, Emma Greyling because I think she's really, I think she's fabulous.

448
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:10.019
I think she's actually the best thing about that episode and she is, of course, tremendous in an adventure in Spain and time.

449
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:12.000
So, quick snog for her.

450
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:21.300
And I'll avoid Nefertiti because, you know, modern television aside, I don't know, I'm not convinced that oral hygiene was all that great 2000 years ago.

451
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:23.519
Yeah, hope a teeth don't let her down.

452
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:26.940
Speaking of which, Peter, Snog, marry and void.

453
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:29.880
Grandfather, the crooked man, or a time zombie.

454
00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:35.159
It's not grandfather.

455
00:38:35.219 --> 00:38:37.260
Just because it would be a new experience for me.

456
00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:45.000
I would avoid the time zombies because, I mean, they are quite hot, but I would avoid them.

457
00:38:45.059 --> 00:38:46.139
And who was the other one?

458
00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:47.880
The crooked man.

459
00:38:47.940 --> 00:38:51.239
Oh, definitely marry the crooked man because, you know, you wouldn't have to lie straight in bed.

460
00:38:52.139 --> 00:38:55.440
I was going to put in Mr. Sweet, but you spoiled.

461
00:38:55.500 --> 00:38:58.260
You know me too well, you know, not too well.

462
00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:06.719
One of the things I found really interesting is how much of a reboot goes on in the Christmas episode.

463
00:39:06.780 --> 00:39:08.400
We've got the doctor with a new costume.

464
00:39:08.460 --> 00:39:15.300
We've got a brand new credit sequence and we've got a brand new console room.

465
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:23.400
And I think it's, you know, if you're going to do it, you're going to do it, then set things up for the following year, you've got a big audience, you can introduce all of those things.

466
00:39:23.460 --> 00:39:27.119
But also looking at this season, the monsters from the past.

467
00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:37.199
Like, I just went through, and I just, and like, we've got Daleks and Cybermen, and Ice Warriors, and the Great Intelligence, and we've got Osontarin in there as well.

468
00:39:37.260 --> 00:39:42.780
It's just interesting to see, I think, how much is sort of leading up to the 50th.

469
00:39:42.900 --> 00:39:49.139
It could go back to what we were saying earlier about whether this is one season or actually 2 very distinct seasons.

470
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:50.340
There's an aesthetic thing there.

471
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:54.719
And so that's why 7B feels quite different from 7A. Yeah, yeah.

472
00:39:54.780 --> 00:40:12.119
I think the great intelligence, you know, we talked about how Russell introduces the doctor's big enemies in order, and so we get the Daleks, then the Cyberman, then the master, and then we get, what, Davros and maybe the Santar and Tereleptals.

473
00:40:12.179 --> 00:40:14.639
It's like the first, second, 3rd and 4th doctors.

474
00:40:14.699 --> 00:40:15.420
Yeah.

475
00:40:15.420 --> 00:40:20.340
We've just had the big discovery of the web of fear.

476
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:27.659
And so the great intelligence who is not a very interesting villain, I think, in the 60s.

477
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:35.039
Like Moffatt makes him interesting and gives us someone to play him who's just terrific at it.

478
00:40:35.099 --> 00:40:38.460
And also the yeti never really worked.

479
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:41.099
I mean, you know, the 2 stories are good, but the yeti are funny.

480
00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:42.300
They're not very scary.

481
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:47.039
And so I think slightly transforming them into the snowmen works. look more malevolent.

482
00:40:47.099 --> 00:40:49.139
They're spectacular, aren't they?

483
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:51.059
Because they are funny. cartoon villains.

484
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:51.599
Yeah.

485
00:40:51.599 --> 00:41:01.500
I think where the great intelligence sort of falls down a bit for me because I love the abominable snowmen.

486
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:05.579
And part of what makes that work is that Panba Sambivar is an old friend of the doctor.

487
00:41:05.579 --> 00:41:17.940
And something we're critical of in a story like Meglos, is you have Zaster, who's an old friend of the doctor and does it in the sort of way they do in monkey, like, oh, yes, hello, old friend kind of thing.

488
00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:23.159
Whereas the scenes with the doctor and Pavma Sambova in Abominable Smamen.

489
00:41:23.219 --> 00:41:25.980
You do get this sense of regret and what have you.

490
00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:31.619
Um, Simeon isn't really a character before he gets taken over.

491
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:32.519
He's like a kid.

492
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:36.900
And so there's, there's no kind of emotional connection there for me.

493
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:42.900
Like, even in the web of fear when you discover spoiler alert, folks, for a story from 1968.

494
00:41:43.139 --> 00:41:48.059
Even when you discover that Staff Sergeant Arnold is the vessel for the great intelligence.

495
00:41:48.119 --> 00:41:55.619
He's been like the funny staff sergeant and, you know, a bit loveably gruff and like William Hartnall in all of his army roles.

496
00:41:55.679 --> 00:42:04.019
So that has weight as well, because we're led to believe it's going to be Harold Chorley, and we all hate Harold Chorley, who's, you know, just a bit of a dick.

497
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:09.059
And so, you know, you're like, yeah, yeah, well, he's going to get his comeuppance and then you find out it's a character you actually like.

498
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:20.579
And I think it's something we discussed last week in that there's been some accusation that Richard E. Grant is phoning his performance in, but it's like, even when Richard E. Grant is phoning a performance in, He's Richard E. Grant.

499
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:22.260
And he said, incredibly entertaining.

500
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:23.820
Does he never not phone a performer?

501
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:27.599
That's the thing.

502
00:42:27.659 --> 00:42:30.599
Like, we've talked about how Clara as a character is undeveloped.

503
00:42:30.659 --> 00:42:44.460
The great intelligence as a character is undeveloped, and I'm actually going to disagree with Peter a bit here about the yeti in that I watched this season back and I'm like, they've got the great intelligence and the yeti, and they bring back the less interesting one.

504
00:42:44.940 --> 00:42:48.000
But then again, with the yeti.

505
00:42:48.059 --> 00:43:02.579
If you look back at something like downtime in the 90s, which for those of you who don't know was an officially licensed fan film using characters such as the Brigadier, Sarah Jane Smith, Victoria, and the Yeti, and has them wandering around a university campus.

506
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:04.079
Yeah, that doesn't work.

507
00:43:04.139 --> 00:43:06.960
So changing them into snowmen is absolutely the right thing to do.

508
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:09.119
They're very off their time, I think.

509
00:43:09.179 --> 00:43:10.260
They're very off their time.

510
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:13.440
But then, you know, you get the whispermen in the last episode.

511
00:43:13.500 --> 00:43:14.760
It's like, what are the whispermen?

512
00:43:14.820 --> 00:43:16.980
Well, they can rip off their face and turn into Richard E. Grant.

513
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:17.639
Okay, but what are they?

514
00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:20.639
They can rip off their face and turn it.

515
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:27.000
So, yeah, it is nonetheless entertaining, but I was just thinking about the great intelligence last night.

516
00:43:27.059 --> 00:43:29.880
It's like there's no emotional connection there.

517
00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:31.800
Even in the bells of St.

518
00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:42.360
John, in one line of dialogue at the end, Celia Emory gives us an emotional connection to that character once we realised what's happened to her and that she was taken as a little girl and can't remember anything.

519
00:43:42.420 --> 00:44:00.780
And I think for me, what would have redressed that is if after, you know, Clara had jumped into the doctor's timeline and gotten rid of the great intelligence, we cut back to the snowman and we see 10-year-old Dr. Simeon, and he never hears a voice from the fountain.

520
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:02.219
Oh yeah.

521
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:04.440
You know, so Clara hasn't just saved the doctor.

522
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:07.199
Save Simeon and saved Miss Kisler.

523
00:44:07.260 --> 00:44:07.500
Yeah.

524
00:44:07.500 --> 00:44:07.739
Yeah.

525
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:08.280
Yeah.

526
00:44:08.340 --> 00:44:17.940
And I think what sort of happens this year with Moffat is he is so busy that he's still producing perfectly entertaining television.

527
00:44:17.940 --> 00:44:22.619
And it's kind of that old saying of even bad Doctor Who is something we love.

528
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:25.139
And this isn't bad Doctor Who.

529
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:29.519
It's just Doctor Who that doesn't quite finish drawing the shapes.

530
00:44:29.579 --> 00:44:31.739
You know, it's kind of like, here you go.

531
00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:33.840
Yep, that's a perfectly entertaining 45 minutes.

532
00:44:33.900 --> 00:44:35.460
Oh, but what about this character?

533
00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:38.280
Oh, um, died on the way back to their home planet.

534
00:44:38.340 --> 00:44:39.179
You know, it's fine.

535
00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:41.940
It might be the problem with series 7 B in a nutshell.

536
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:45.659
None of it's particularly bad. but some of it is quite tedious.

537
00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:48.000
I think some of it is particularly bad.

538
00:44:48.059 --> 00:44:49.320
I think 2 of them are.

539
00:44:49.380 --> 00:44:51.900
I think 2 of them are and they're probably the same too.

540
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:55.800
I think nightmare in silver is terrible.

541
00:44:55.860 --> 00:44:57.960
And I don't think it's Neil Gaiman's fault.

542
00:44:58.019 --> 00:44:58.920
I think it's the director.

543
00:44:58.980 --> 00:45:08.039
It's just shockingly poorly directed in a way that Gaiman had no right to expect given who directed his previous episode.

544
00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:18.840
And I think that I just think Journey to the centre of the TARDIS is super boring and slightly inadvertently racist.

545
00:45:18.900 --> 00:45:20.099
That's why we said on podcast.

546
00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:26.460
It's a failure of imagination as well, taking something as wonderful and abstract as the TARDIS and just turning it into a machine with corridors.

547
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:27.300
Yeah, yeah.

548
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:29.519
And Hyde is terribly boring.

549
00:45:29.579 --> 00:45:30.539
That's the problem.

550
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:31.739
It is so dull.

551
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:34.920
How can you take all of those elements and not make something interesting out of it?

552
00:45:34.980 --> 00:45:36.960
See, I find nightmare and silver boring.

553
00:45:37.019 --> 00:45:39.000
Like 10 minutes in, I just wanted to turn it off.

554
00:45:39.059 --> 00:45:43.920
Like, I thought, start and I thought, oh, this is going well and then suddenly I just lost complete interest and I was just over it.

555
00:45:43.980 --> 00:45:49.980
Well, I just think it's overlit and badly directed and just not atmospheric at all.

556
00:45:50.039 --> 00:46:01.079
It relies on being about nightmares, you know, like childhood fears and is not at all scary because everything's, you know, lit to buggery and the whole thing is just kind of terrible.

557
00:46:01.139 --> 00:46:06.659
I just want to say something in defence of the actors playing Ang Giannati.

558
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:14.039
I watch them and I can recognisably see them as children, you know, and auntie's whole soft-spoken thing.

559
00:46:14.099 --> 00:46:16.199
I think auntie's adorable, actually.

560
00:46:16.260 --> 00:46:16.980
Artie's adorable.

561
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:21.000
There were children in my family like that when my nieces and nephews were younger, you know.

562
00:46:21.059 --> 00:46:27.059
And Angie feels like she's straight out of the Sarah Jane adventures and, you know, there's nothing wrong with that.

563
00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:36.360
And yet, I do not like those characters anywhere near as much as, say, um, Caitlin Blackwood as young Amelia.

564
00:46:36.420 --> 00:46:43.679
Whereas I would say the amount that Angie and RT are given to do is more than Amelia is given to do.

565
00:46:43.739 --> 00:46:48.960
You know, they're tasked with delivering more emotions and more plot information, and I think they nail it.

566
00:46:49.019 --> 00:46:57.599
So I don't, I think, as you say, Nathan, it comes down to the direction, because I've heard those 2 lambasted quite a bit, and I kind of watch them and I go, I don't think it's the actor's fault.

567
00:46:57.659 --> 00:47:03.360
You know, I think that Cyril and Lily are better served than Angie and Archie.

568
00:47:03.420 --> 00:47:04.139
Yeah, yeah.

569
00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:06.360
I think they're both reasonably good.

570
00:47:06.420 --> 00:47:07.559
I think Artie's probably better.

571
00:47:07.619 --> 00:47:09.239
But I think they're fine.

572
00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:16.079
Everybody keeps looking, you know, because you know how much he hates children as a school teacher.

573
00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:17.219
As a school teacher.

574
00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:20.519
And as an officiato of the new who?

575
00:47:20.579 --> 00:47:25.500
I just really despise the small children in the show most of the time.

576
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:27.480
Look, I think they're adequate.

577
00:47:27.539 --> 00:47:33.599
I just think they're poorly written at times and certainly in that nightmare and silver thing.

578
00:47:33.659 --> 00:47:35.820
There's no reason why Artie shouldn't have been completely taken over.

579
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:36.719
Do you know what I mean?

580
00:47:36.780 --> 00:47:39.300
We're just traumatising the children at home.

581
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:47.219
No, but I'm just saying like we've just gone with a cybermite and it's just a little problem and that's convenient for the plot and it's like really, yeah.

582
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:52.139
Yeah, yeah, it's because it's not 1992 written by David A. McKinty.

583
00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:55.559
That's the only reason he's not hideously murdered kind of thing.

584
00:47:55.619 --> 00:48:05.519
I was just thinking, though, the whole bloody thing with Nightmare and Silver is, oh, you know, if you don't take us on a trip in space, we're going to tell dad that you were in 1899.

585
00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:07.079
I was like, what?

586
00:48:07.139 --> 00:48:08.039
That was quite funny.

587
00:48:08.099 --> 00:48:09.780
Yeah, I actually kind of like that.

588
00:48:10.739 --> 00:48:13.320
And what's dad going to do about it?

589
00:48:13.380 --> 00:48:18.300
Exactly, you know, and it's kind of like Kyro can just go, yeah, that's my grandma.

590
00:48:19.139 --> 00:48:26.519
Look, there is a painting, a self-portrait in a gallery in Barcelona that looks like me with a Santa Claus beard.

591
00:48:26.579 --> 00:48:27.539
Oh, I've seen that.

592
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:28.199
You posted it?

593
00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:29.519
I've posted that.

594
00:48:29.579 --> 00:48:31.260
I'll give it to Nathan to put in the show notes.

595
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:36.179
And yeah, I don't think that this going was my ancestor.

596
00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:42.420
I just think that, you know, you've got a certain amount of gasica in you and sometimes it comes out in roughly the same shape.

597
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:50.460
Like for me, and the other thing with nightmare in silver is the doctor agrees to take children anywhere in the TARDIS?

598
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:52.079
Has he seen the show?

599
00:48:52.679 --> 00:49:05.940
But I mean, the thing is, though, that the idea of Doctor Who is that idea of, you know, Victorian children's literature of being transported to a magical place.

600
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:11.219
And so taking children to visit something in the TARDIS is absolutely what it should be doing.

601
00:49:11.219 --> 00:49:16.860
And the hilarious thing about the children blackmailing Clara.

602
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:21.119
I just think that's a really fun and novel way of getting them on board.

603
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:23.340
They're just a modern day John and John.

604
00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:27.960
Whatever happened to John and Gillian.

605
00:49:28.019 --> 00:49:35.400
They, um, they got rapid soap opera ageing thing and then he leaves them at the University of Zebedee.

606
00:49:35.460 --> 00:49:37.440
Should have been a case of the space syphilis.

607
00:49:41.159 --> 00:49:58.619
Speaking of things which have a mysteriously poor reputation, in all those episodes we're talking about, which didn't like this season, we didn't mention the Rings of Akatan, I'm a bit mystified by how much that episode is loathed because although it's not good, it's kind of charming, but it's not the worst episode this season.

608
00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:03.119
Yeah, it's thought of as being one of the worst episodes of all time.

609
00:50:03.179 --> 00:50:06.900
I don't even think it's the worst episode by that writer this season.

610
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:07.440
Yeah.

611
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:10.139
When we were discussing it.

612
00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:15.599
I made the point that I really loathed it at the time, the whole singing thing and the child and everything like that.

613
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:25.320
And I really, and when I came back to it, I found so much more in there that was related to perhaps Clara and the ongoing plot, which we liked, but we did sort of say the resolution had its problems.

614
00:50:25.380 --> 00:50:27.239
And yeah, I'm with you.

615
00:50:27.300 --> 00:50:29.940
Like, I think people do need to revisit that episode.

616
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:31.559
I think it's actually a good episode.

617
00:50:31.619 --> 00:50:32.760
I think it's actually quite solid.

618
00:50:33.059 --> 00:50:38.039
So, you know, since we're talking about that, in terms of this whole series.

619
00:50:38.099 --> 00:50:44.400
What are the episodes for you that are potentially your favourite or best and what is the worst?

620
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:46.679
It's got to be a town called Mercia.

621
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:48.300
It's got to be the best episode.

622
00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:49.980
And, you know, that might be a problem.

623
00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:53.639
That's what we're identifying with the whole series because it's not one of the big episodes.

624
00:50:53.699 --> 00:50:55.619
It's not one of the arc episodes.

625
00:50:55.679 --> 00:50:57.599
It's not an important episode for the show.

626
00:50:57.659 --> 00:50:59.639
It's just a really good standalone episode.

627
00:50:59.699 --> 00:51:03.420
Yeah, yeah, I would say that would be the best of the series for sure.

628
00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:06.840
And I think probably the worst.

629
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:11.519
Like, I think Hyde is boring and doesn't go anywhere.

630
00:51:11.579 --> 00:51:16.800
I think maybe nightmare in silver is the worst.

631
00:51:16.860 --> 00:51:18.599
It's certainly the worst executed.

632
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:19.679
Absolutely.

633
00:51:19.679 --> 00:51:27.840
It's the worst, you know, it's a reasonable script and possibly a good script that's just completely butchered by poor production.

634
00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:29.699
Brendan?

635
00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:35.400
Um, My my favourite, I want to give an honourable mention to the power of three.

636
00:51:35.460 --> 00:51:36.300
Yeah, it's good.

637
00:51:36.360 --> 00:51:51.239
Which, you know, if we were just going on scripts, that would probably be my favourite, but given that Diana Rigg is in the Crimson Horror, and Rachel Sterling, that pips it, and that becomes my favourite, Matt Smith.

638
00:51:51.300 --> 00:51:54.119
And, you know, one of the most criticised...

639
00:51:54.179 --> 00:51:55.199
It's my favourite Matt Smith episode.

640
00:51:55.260 --> 00:51:56.219
It's really great.

641
00:51:56.760 --> 00:52:02.340
And, you know, one of the most criticised moments in that is, you know, when the doctor kisses Jenny and what have you.

642
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:07.980
And I have to say, in the novelisation, Mark Gatis addresses that because the novelisation is narrated by Jenny.

643
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:09.119
Oh wow.

644
00:52:09.179 --> 00:52:18.900
Yeah, and pretty much the moment happens and Jenny's like, well, you know, of course I like the doctor and he's my friend and whatnot, but I needed to make it very clear to him that he can't just go kissing people, especially not married women.

645
00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:19.679
So I hit him.

646
00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:23.820
And even watching that scene.

647
00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:28.440
It's like, it happens, and he immediately gets struck across the face and says, sorry, I was a bit excited.

648
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:34.320
So that's my favourite from this season, The Crimson Horror.

649
00:52:34.380 --> 00:52:37.260
The bottom for me is Journey to the Centre of the Tartars.

650
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:44.760
And again, it's between that and Nightmare and Silver, but Nightmare and Silver has some genuinely funny moments.

651
00:52:44.820 --> 00:52:47.639
It also has some funny moments you're not meant to be laughing at.

652
00:52:47.699 --> 00:52:48.960
Mr. Clever.

653
00:52:49.019 --> 00:52:53.699
But the thing is, Jenna is really hilarious in some bits.

654
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:59.940
Like, the script basically asks her to become a general and I get the feeling that Jenna...

655
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:00.360
Yeah.

656
00:53:00.420 --> 00:53:03.119
I get the feeling that Jenna Coleman kind of also went, what?

657
00:53:03.179 --> 00:53:03.900
Why am I?

658
00:53:04.019 --> 00:53:04.260
Okay.

659
00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:11.579
And so like she'll give an order and it'll be followed and she'll just have this look of surprise on her face like, oh, okay, all right.

660
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:13.920
Cannons here.

661
00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:17.760
And we're going to stand here by Mr. Winky's world of pleasure.

662
00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:19.440
And da, da, da, da, da.

663
00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:25.679
So, yeah, it's journey to the centre of the Tartars because it doesn't have any of those moments for me.

664
00:53:25.739 --> 00:53:34.260
It has the wonderful scene with Dr. and Clary in the exploded engine room, which is more of the abstract stuff I wanted to see in this episode.

665
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:36.900
Yeah, I wanted brick walls.

666
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:38.159
I wanted the invasion of time.

667
00:53:38.219 --> 00:53:40.500
I'm not joking Yeah, absolutely No, no, no.

668
00:53:40.619 --> 00:53:48.360
And, you know, then wander from brick walls into a park and then wander from a park into an underground station, you know. boot cupboard.

669
00:53:48.420 --> 00:53:48.780
Yeah.

670
00:53:48.780 --> 00:54:15.300
I think, you know, if you'd asked me this question 2 or 3 years ago, Asylum of the Daleks. probably would have been on the worst list, but I've really softened on that, because one of my big problems with it was what I felt was the unbelievability of Amy and Rory split, and I expressed that online at Twitter at one and some fans who are women got in touch via that and kind of respectfully explain, well, actually, this is what infertility feels like, and this is what makes you feel like.

671
00:54:15.420 --> 00:54:20.639
And this woman wasn't having a go at me by any means, but she's just like, you know, you may not understand this perspective.

672
00:54:20.699 --> 00:54:24.119
And so I have a new respect for that episode that I didn't have before.

673
00:54:24.179 --> 00:54:27.300
It's interesting, interesting because like that's one of the episodes.

674
00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:30.059
I had a problem with originally, but I actually really quite...

675
00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:30.840
I think it's good.

676
00:54:30.900 --> 00:54:32.099
I think it's a really solid episode.

677
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:33.539
I think it's one of the strongest.

678
00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:34.679
It's the strongest.

679
00:54:34.739 --> 00:54:40.139
A town called Mercy, I think, is up there for me and the Crimson Horror, but my favourite is the snowman.

680
00:54:40.199 --> 00:54:41.219
But those...

681
00:54:41.219 --> 00:54:48.780
Oh, I forgot the snowman, but those 3 are my standouts of the season, definitely the Stoneman is one of my most favourite things ever.

682
00:54:49.079 --> 00:55:00.119
Crimson horror, I just think, is stunning except for Jenna Coleman's hair, which is just utterly awful, utterly, utterly awful in that episode.

683
00:55:00.179 --> 00:55:09.780
And the nightmare in silver is just woeful, but I have problems with journey to the centre of the TARDIS, and I also have problems with Cold War in terms of I just get bored by it.

684
00:55:10.079 --> 00:55:18.659
We've been talking about, obviously, those episodes, but also guest cast, of which you've, of course, mentioned Diana Rigg, who was fantastic.

685
00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:25.500
What other guest stars this season for you, you know, stand out?

686
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:28.559
Stephen Burkoff, but I'm not sure that's exactly.

687
00:55:28.619 --> 00:55:29.699
Wait, wait.

688
00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:30.480
A compliment.

689
00:55:30.539 --> 00:55:32.099
Wait, I've got a listener question.

690
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:38.820
Nathan Botomley says, who is the worst guest star in the history of the show?

691
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:42.119
Sorry, in the history of the new series and why is it Stephen Burkock?

692
00:55:43.980 --> 00:55:48.780
He's the he's actual real-life villain, Stephen.

693
00:55:50.099 --> 00:55:52.139
Jack Drew.

694
00:55:52.380 --> 00:55:54.420
It's such a shame.

695
00:55:54.480 --> 00:55:57.000
I mean, Chibl can't really pull off endings.

696
00:55:57.059 --> 00:56:04.380
So I imagine that what we were going to get was only going to be marginally better than what we did get, but what we did get was very bad.

697
00:56:04.500 --> 00:56:15.360
I just find it so astonishing that, you know, they couldn't have popped down the old Vic and said, you know, who's appearing this week?

698
00:56:15.420 --> 00:56:18.119
Patrick Stewart, do you want to come do 2 days on this?

699
00:56:18.179 --> 00:56:23.460
I'm just astonished that they didn't just replace him, but they must have just been so up against it.

700
00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:32.099
And yet they would have had to have made at a time where Matt, Karen, Arthur, and Mark Williams were all available and what have you.

701
00:56:32.159 --> 00:56:39.059
But my God, for it to go that wrong and for them not to be able to write them out is just extraordinary.

702
00:56:39.179 --> 00:56:47.940
But even so, I didn't know anything was wrong until like 3 years later when I read about it and it didn't feel like there was anything wrong.

703
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:49.920
Like, it felt kind of weird that he just disappeared.

704
00:56:49.980 --> 00:56:53.460
But, you know, I'm used to Star Trek having ancient ships with holograms.

705
00:56:53.579 --> 00:56:56.099
I didn't feel like there was anything wrong per se.

706
00:56:56.159 --> 00:56:59.579
I just thought it was poorly executed at the end and just rushed like that's what I thought.

707
00:56:59.639 --> 00:57:01.739
Like I didn't think there was a big saga behind it.

708
00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:05.639
I just think giving everyone a heart attack was like a massively bad idea.

709
00:57:05.760 --> 00:57:10.320
And it's like for half an hour and then they stopped the signal and everyone's fine.

710
00:57:10.380 --> 00:57:11.699
That's right.

711
00:57:11.699 --> 00:57:18.960
I think this season suffers a little bit in that it doesn't have a lot of great performances. has a lot of good performances, but nothing that really stands out.

712
00:57:19.019 --> 00:57:23.340
So I would have to go for the only one that did for me, which Sager and Scarborough.

713
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:24.300
Car checks.

714
00:57:24.719 --> 00:57:25.679
He's my favourite as well.

715
00:57:25.739 --> 00:57:31.739
I mean, diner rig is superb, but yeah, Adrian Scarborough is amazingly good in that episode.

716
00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:36.179
And on the other end, the spectrum, Tams and Althwheat in Nightmare and Silver.

717
00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:37.019
So casting gone wrong.

718
00:57:37.079 --> 00:57:39.360
Yeah, yeah, it's another Michelle Collins.

719
00:57:39.420 --> 00:57:40.739
Who is she?

720
00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:41.639
Let's not go nuts.

721
00:57:41.699 --> 00:57:43.019
Who is?

722
00:57:43.079 --> 00:57:48.119
She's the blonde leader of the platoon.

723
00:57:48.179 --> 00:57:50.219
Oh, you think she's that bad?

724
00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:51.539
Okay.

725
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:54.780
Well, she's not helped by the script, obviously.

726
00:57:54.840 --> 00:57:56.039
But there's so many.

727
00:57:56.340 --> 00:57:59.039
I just think, like, you've got Ben Browder, who I think is fantastic.

728
00:57:59.099 --> 00:58:01.500
We have a Graves, Doug Ray Scott.

729
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:04.079
Mark Williams, as Brian, is just phenomenal.

730
00:58:04.139 --> 00:58:18.960
Richard E. Grant, whatever you may think you've got Liam Cunningham as Captain Zukov or whatever it is in that episode, David Warner, Tobias Menzies, Diner Rig, obviously, and Rachel Sterling, Miss Kislet.

731
00:58:19.079 --> 00:58:25.260
I think you've got a lot of actually, and let's not forget David Bradley as Solomon, right?

732
00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:28.500
I think you've actually got quite a lot of big names throughout.

733
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:29.519
Actually, the casting is good.

734
00:58:29.579 --> 00:58:30.599
Maybe it's just the characters.

735
00:58:31.619 --> 00:58:37.320
I mean, Cold War really is trying to kind of lift a boring script by overcasting all of the roles.

736
00:58:37.500 --> 00:58:40.440
And I remember I did say at the time, like coming back into it.

737
00:58:40.500 --> 00:58:57.599
I felt like David Warner was underused, but watching the episode is like, no, actually, like he's given some really good, sweet character moments and having seen David Warner interviewed, he has commented, you know, of course I love playing villains because I love working, but he's like things that say, hey, come in and don't be a villain.

738
00:58:57.659 --> 00:58:59.519
Just be, you know, just be an ordinary person.

739
00:58:59.579 --> 00:59:00.960
He's like, actually I quite like those.

740
00:59:01.019 --> 00:59:11.099
One person I want to give a shout out to because I feel he elevates a pretty poor script is Warwick Davies as the emperor in Nightmare in Silver.

741
00:59:11.159 --> 00:59:14.519
And I just love how he's always trying to give away the emperorship to someone.

742
00:59:14.579 --> 00:59:16.199
Like his last time in the episode.

743
00:59:16.260 --> 00:59:17.039
Do you want to be emperor?

744
00:59:17.099 --> 00:59:17.519
No, sir.

745
00:59:17.579 --> 00:59:19.079
No, he's good.

746
00:59:19.139 --> 00:59:21.239
And who's the other guy in that that's the...

747
00:59:21.239 --> 00:59:22.440
Jason Watkins?

748
00:59:22.500 --> 00:59:23.340
Jason Watkins?

749
00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:26.639
He's also very good, but unfortunately, that whole script is just...

750
00:59:26.639 --> 00:59:27.840
Well, he's wasted by that.

751
00:59:27.900 --> 00:59:30.239
I genuinely don't think it's a script though.

752
00:59:30.300 --> 00:59:35.400
I think that the script could have been good if we'd got Richard Clark back or someone competent.

753
00:59:35.460 --> 00:59:36.480
And to do it.

754
00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:40.199
I just don't like the Mr. Clever thing and having to do all of that.

755
00:59:40.260 --> 00:59:41.400
It just doesn't work for me.

756
00:59:41.460 --> 00:59:47.280
But yeah, again, I think had he been directed rather than them just saying, oh, he's the lead, let him do whatever he wants.

757
00:59:47.400 --> 00:59:48.239
Yeah, yeah.

758
00:59:48.300 --> 00:59:50.820
I think, you know, that would have improved that.

759
00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:56.639
I have to have problems with any science fiction thing where there's in someone's person's head and they have to do multiple things.

760
00:59:56.699 --> 00:59:58.860
I just really dislike it anything that I watch.

761
00:59:58.920 --> 01:00:07.500
Wouldn't you love to see the offspring of Mr. Sweet and Mr. Clever. think I've seen something like that. maple fool.

762
01:00:19.739 --> 01:00:22.500
Peter, I have to give you another dog, Mary.

763
01:00:22.559 --> 01:00:25.199
I feel very, very poor about the first one.

764
01:00:25.260 --> 01:00:28.079
Josh O'Connor, James Norton, or Charlie Anson.

765
01:00:28.199 --> 01:00:29.940
Do you know who these characters are?

766
01:00:30.059 --> 01:00:30.719
Please tell me.

767
01:00:30.780 --> 01:00:36.179
There are 3 of the sailors on the ship in the submarine whose names I cannot pronounce.

768
01:00:36.599 --> 01:00:40.440
I've got them written here, but I just can't pronounce them, but they all.

769
01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:41.880
I think I know which 3 they are.

770
01:00:41.940 --> 01:00:43.679
You don't have to answer.

771
01:00:43.739 --> 01:00:44.940
No, no, no, no.

772
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:47.940
I would snog and marry Josh Charles.

773
01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:48.719
Is Josh Charles?

774
01:00:48.780 --> 01:00:49.860
Josh O'Connor.

775
01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:52.139
Josh O'Connor, who plays...

776
01:00:52.139 --> 01:00:52.559
Charles.

777
01:00:52.619 --> 01:00:55.500
Charles Charles in one of my favourite films, Dead Pelts.

778
01:00:55.559 --> 01:00:58.380
Yeah, Josh O'Connor, who plays Prince Charles and is in Cold War.

779
01:00:58.440 --> 01:00:59.760
I would snog and marry him.

780
01:00:59.820 --> 01:01:03.780
And so therefore, because I'm that kind of guy, I would have to avoid the others.

781
01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:04.619
Yes.

782
01:01:04.679 --> 01:01:07.260
I've got their Russian names here, but I just can't pronounce them.

783
01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:09.059
Sorry, listeners, it's just not going to happen.

784
01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:15.840
Let's just talk about a few people that are very important in this season. and your thoughts on them.

785
01:01:15.900 --> 01:01:17.039
Karen Gillan.

786
01:01:17.099 --> 01:01:18.179
Oh terrific.

787
01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:19.980
Just tremendous. as good as ever.

788
01:01:20.039 --> 01:01:20.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

789
01:01:20.940 --> 01:01:25.380
Her hair's fantastic and I have a complete new appreciation of her talent.

790
01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:32.219
Yeah, I think they give her more things to do, like the breakup and like the final departure and stuff.

791
01:01:32.280 --> 01:01:34.260
I think she's extremely good.

792
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:35.340
After Darvel?

793
01:01:35.460 --> 01:01:40.079
as reliable as ever and get some really good moments of quiet emotion.

794
01:01:40.139 --> 01:01:46.679
And I also really like in a town called Mercy, their conflict when, you know, the doctor goes out to face the guns.

795
01:01:46.679 --> 01:01:48.960
Amy wants to go with him and Rory's like, absolutely not.

796
01:01:49.019 --> 01:01:53.699
Well, they're on different sides of the debate about what to do about Carla James as well.

797
01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:54.659
Yeah, yeah.

798
01:01:54.719 --> 01:02:03.480
And I like that the argument between them isn't resolved, but it also doesn't become a massive wedge. you know neither of them do something stupid because of it.

799
01:02:03.539 --> 01:02:10.199
No, I think it's just a way that the writer can explore the idea that they're 2 valid possible approaches.

800
01:02:10.260 --> 01:02:17.940
Yeah, and also it does give rise to my favourite Dr. Rory scene from dinosaurs on a spaceship with the kiss and then the slap income.

801
01:02:19.019 --> 01:02:23.219
Oh yeah, and all the scenes between Arthur and Mark Williams.

802
01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:27.000
Yeah, even like, dad, you don't have to sit there watching the cube.

803
01:02:27.059 --> 01:02:28.559
The doctor has told me to watch this queue.

804
01:02:28.679 --> 01:02:30.000
That's what I'm going to do.

805
01:02:30.059 --> 01:02:30.780
Brian's log.

806
01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:32.400
You're not calling it Brian's log.

807
01:02:33.900 --> 01:02:35.820
I always say it.

808
01:02:35.880 --> 01:02:39.239
I think Arthur is an unsung hero on the show and I will miss him terribly.

809
01:02:39.300 --> 01:02:40.260
Alex Kingston.

810
01:02:40.440 --> 01:02:43.260
Oh, I just think she's always great.

811
01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:52.860
And I think that she's absolutely superb at the end of series 7 A with the Angels take Manhattan.

812
01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:59.099
I also think that she lifts what is a, you know, scrape that basically consists of Moffatt vamping for 45.

813
01:02:59.940 --> 01:03:01.980
So let's get her in.

814
01:03:02.039 --> 01:03:05.159
She's got a big head and she's really funny.

815
01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:12.360
I just weep when the doctor says I can always, I can always hear you.

816
01:03:12.420 --> 01:03:16.380
Yeah, that's, I just, in floods.

817
01:03:16.440 --> 01:03:20.940
And, you know, Matt's doing the line, of course, but it's Alex's face.

818
01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:29.039
And I've been listening to the diary of a river song recently and she is just so she loves the character so much and it comes through the performance.

819
01:03:29.099 --> 01:03:31.619
Yeah, she's as reliable as ever.

820
01:03:31.679 --> 01:03:37.800
I think the character is pretty well done by the end of this season, but then I'm proved wrong.

821
01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:41.039
Yeah, she comes back for a superb code, doesn't she?

822
01:03:41.099 --> 01:03:41.340
Yeah.

823
01:03:41.400 --> 01:03:43.199
Niamh Macintosh.

824
01:03:43.260 --> 01:03:51.780
I like her a lot, in fact, as Madame Vastra, and there's, I don't know.

825
01:03:51.840 --> 01:04:00.480
I don't know quite what it is because she's completely different, obviously, from what she plays as a layer in the in the Sillyrian 2 parter.

826
01:04:00.539 --> 01:04:02.159
Is she different from Restak?

827
01:04:02.219 --> 01:04:05.039
Yeah, thankfully for the same reason.

828
01:04:06.059 --> 01:04:08.280
Yeah, I think she's wonderful.

829
01:04:08.340 --> 01:04:09.239
Really, really great.

830
01:04:09.300 --> 01:04:10.619
There's a kind of dignity.

831
01:04:10.679 --> 01:04:16.440
And sort of she's intimidatingly serious and proper. she's very good.

832
01:04:16.860 --> 01:04:20.880
I love that she has the Scottish accent.

833
01:04:20.940 --> 01:04:23.579
Like we have a music with a Scottish accent because why not?

834
01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:39.239
But I also love because something that happens a lot with when people are writing aliens is, the 1st thing they do is remove humour, like aliens don't get humour, whereas Madame Vastra is seriously funny and saki and charming.

835
01:04:39.300 --> 01:04:41.039
She's not an alien.

836
01:04:41.099 --> 01:04:42.119
She's of this planet.

837
01:04:42.179 --> 01:04:43.139
That's true. that's true.

838
01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:46.380
I'm using alien in the sense of different.

839
01:04:47.099 --> 01:04:48.960
Madame Vestra?

840
01:04:49.019 --> 01:04:49.860
Bit tiresome.

841
01:04:50.579 --> 01:04:54.780
I really like her, but I actually, I like she liked Jenny Moore.

842
01:04:54.840 --> 01:04:55.980
Is it Catherine Stewart?

843
01:04:56.039 --> 01:04:56.579
Catherine Stewart.

844
01:04:56.639 --> 01:04:58.860
Catherine Stewart, I think she's great all the time.

845
01:04:58.920 --> 01:05:03.360
I think she's the unsung hero, all the overlooked part of that trailer.

846
01:05:03.420 --> 01:05:05.460
I mean, Dan Starkey, I think is just hilarious.

847
01:05:05.519 --> 01:05:06.420
Silence, girl.

848
01:05:10.199 --> 01:05:28.380
I think Dan Starkey is so funny. and and the Santarans, we with him are used much better than Russell T. And it's sort of like what, perhaps, if I go to Star Trek, what the Ferengi were to DS9 as they were to TNG.

849
01:05:28.440 --> 01:05:29.039
Oh, yeah.

850
01:05:29.039 --> 01:05:35.280
And I never thought they would be able to do anything better with the Santarins after Dan.

851
01:05:35.340 --> 01:05:37.920
I thought this is the way the Santarians are going.

852
01:05:37.980 --> 01:05:42.300
I think he's great, but back to Catherine, you guys, Nathan.

853
01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:52.860
Yeah, I think she is really good, and I do think that I really like the Pardon Oster gang, and I think that they are generally used.

854
01:05:52.920 --> 01:06:25.500
Well, it's my usual thing where if the doctor has no friends, I feel a bit sad about that, you know, in this era, given that we're not creating a world full of Harriet Jones and Jackie and Sylvia and Fran, Sarah, things, Neres, Annalise, Clive, all of those people that the doctor knows, given that we're not going to do that, giving them those friends and it's absolutely moffity, that they should be to Doctor Who monsters and a person all doing sort of jokes and stuff.

855
01:06:25.559 --> 01:06:26.400
I think that's perfect.

856
01:06:26.460 --> 01:06:28.199
So I'm on board with all of them.

857
01:06:28.260 --> 01:06:30.239
I just wish they had more episodes, Brendan.

858
01:06:30.300 --> 01:06:30.719
Yeah.

859
01:06:30.780 --> 01:06:35.400
I think that Jenny, she's the glue that makes that trio work.

860
01:06:35.460 --> 01:06:40.380
Like if it was a Solurian, a Sontara, and a Zygon, or walk into a bar.

861
01:06:40.500 --> 01:06:41.940
Exactly.

862
01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:42.900
It sounds like a joke.

863
01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:50.880
But, you know, much like the doctor and companion relationship and it works better when the companion is a recognisable human.

864
01:06:50.940 --> 01:07:05.340
I think having Jenny there is what grounds those 2 and makes it believable that Vastra can be running around in a veil and Strax is, you know, just has a funny shaped head, but at least he's in a suit and she's the respectable face of the organisation.

865
01:07:05.400 --> 01:07:07.739
Are they the Dr. Bill and Nardo?

866
01:07:07.800 --> 01:07:08.820
Is that what's happening there?

867
01:07:08.940 --> 01:07:10.199
Yeah, yeah.

868
01:07:11.039 --> 01:07:13.679
Like not all Strax.

869
01:07:14.639 --> 01:07:18.059
And yeah, and Jenny's Bill.

870
01:07:18.119 --> 01:07:18.659
Yeah, yeah.

871
01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:19.559
She's a lesbian?

872
01:07:19.619 --> 01:07:20.460
Yeah that's right.

873
01:07:20.519 --> 01:07:24.119
All right, our series 7, Jenny Laird Award nominations.

874
01:07:24.179 --> 01:07:25.199
Oh, went through to me.

875
01:07:25.260 --> 01:07:28.199
Because you're going to just be awful about it.

876
01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:30.840
Jenny?

877
01:07:30.900 --> 01:07:32.340
bit tiresome.

878
01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:36.239
Nathan has his lawyers on standby. use that once more.

879
01:07:37.139 --> 01:07:39.239
And strikes?

880
01:07:39.300 --> 01:07:40.619
Ah, strikes is quite fun.

881
01:07:40.679 --> 01:07:41.039
Yeah.

882
01:07:41.099 --> 01:07:42.420
Can't hate strikes.

883
01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:43.380
Strax is great.

884
01:07:43.440 --> 01:07:51.900
Just to shout out in terms of Strakes, one of Dan Starkey's best performances out of makeup is in good omens.

885
01:07:51.900 --> 01:07:52.679
Oh.

886
01:07:52.679 --> 01:08:02.460
Where, um, so you've got Crowley, played by David Tennant, and you've got Michael Sheen playing Azira Fail, and...

887
01:08:02.460 --> 01:08:03.780
That's TV's house.

888
01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:06.420
TV's house. that's right Not Hugh Laurie.

889
01:08:06.480 --> 01:08:06.840
No.

890
01:08:06.900 --> 01:08:11.940
But at one point, they have a falling out, you know, one's an angel, one's a devil.

891
01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:19.439
So Zyrafel, the Angel is walking away and David Tennant is shouting, Angel, come with me.

892
01:08:19.500 --> 01:08:25.619
Angel, Angel, and then drives off and Dan Starkey walks past Zara Fail and says, oh, he's not worth it, love.

893
01:08:28.380 --> 01:08:32.159
And I was laughing so hard at the line.

894
01:08:32.220 --> 01:08:34.020
And then went, oh my god, it stands talking.

895
01:08:34.140 --> 01:08:36.060
I was like, gay.

896
01:08:36.119 --> 01:08:37.380
Alright.

897
01:08:37.439 --> 01:08:39.899
Series 7 Jenny Laird award nominations.

898
01:08:40.140 --> 01:08:45.840
I think it has to be whoever the hell directed Nightmare and Silver.

899
01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:48.060
It's a one off.

900
01:08:48.119 --> 01:08:49.439
He doesn't direct again.

901
01:08:49.500 --> 01:09:02.159
It is like an extraordinary production failure for the new series, which even terrible episodes tend to be kind of competently done, but I think this is really, really properly bad.

902
01:09:02.220 --> 01:09:14.939
And it was a mistake to do that to Neil Gaiman, because Neil Gaiman wrote one of the most highly regarded scripts for series 6 and it was produced beautifully.

903
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:24.659
And this is, you know, an extraordinary writer who is just given someone kind of terrible to turn his script into reality.

904
01:09:24.720 --> 01:09:30.479
And I still think that there was a salvageable episode that the script isn't the problem.

905
01:09:30.539 --> 01:09:34.319
I thought you were going to go down the road of another guest star.

906
01:09:34.380 --> 01:09:34.979
Oh, who?

907
01:09:35.039 --> 01:09:36.779
Stephen Burkoff.

908
01:09:36.899 --> 01:09:44.220
Or your other favourite, Gemma Redgrave, is Kate Stewart, who you reckon phones it in all the time. find it in.

909
01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:54.359
I will go specifically, and I have nothing against David Warner at all for the character of Professor Kreshenko who annoys the hell out of me.

910
01:09:54.420 --> 01:09:57.420
He is a character tick in search of a character.

911
01:09:57.479 --> 01:10:00.899
So giving him that thing of loving 80s pop music.

912
01:10:00.960 --> 01:10:04.979
I mean, fine, that's hook, but that is the entire character and it annoys me.

913
01:10:05.039 --> 01:10:10.619
But 80s pop music and he chooses Ultravox, who, I have to say, I've never even heard of.

914
01:10:10.680 --> 01:10:12.479
He's on a submarine.

915
01:10:12.600 --> 01:10:13.920
Why wasn't he singing The Tide is High?

916
01:10:17.159 --> 01:10:25.020
For me, it's Stephen Thompson, writer of Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS, and also writer of Curse of the Black Spot.

917
01:10:25.079 --> 01:10:26.159
Yeah.

918
01:10:26.159 --> 01:10:28.560
But also writer of Time Heist.

919
01:10:28.619 --> 01:10:29.100
That's true.

920
01:10:29.159 --> 01:10:30.960
You know, 3rd time lucky.

921
01:10:31.020 --> 01:10:32.279
Absolutely, I love Time Heist.

922
01:10:32.340 --> 01:10:33.479
Th time's the charm, yes.

923
01:10:33.539 --> 01:10:33.899
Yes.

924
01:10:33.960 --> 01:10:43.319
You're given a gift of remaking, basically remaking, as you say, Peter, the last 2 episodes of the invasion of time, but with a modern budget.

925
01:10:43.380 --> 01:10:45.180
And that's what you write.

926
01:10:45.239 --> 01:10:48.119
And I've, you know, I've read up the development of the script.

927
01:10:48.180 --> 01:10:51.659
It's not a matter of the budget was massively cut or anything like that.

928
01:10:51.720 --> 01:11:03.119
There were budget cuts as there always are, but yeah, it's just space corridors and a library that's actually a library, you know, and it's the eye of harmony.

929
01:11:03.180 --> 01:11:06.420
It's like, well, why does it look like a star instead of a black hole.

930
01:11:06.479 --> 01:11:08.699
It's just basic stuff like that.

931
01:11:08.760 --> 01:11:21.659
And because I love the edge of destruction and the invasion of time, it's like, I should not be disappointed by the 50th anniversary update of those concepts, in my opinion.

932
01:11:21.720 --> 01:11:23.640
So yeah, it's Stephen Thompson.

933
01:11:23.699 --> 01:11:25.260
And look, I'm glad he gets it right next year.

934
01:11:25.319 --> 01:11:26.579
Todd?

935
01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:30.239
Well, for me, it has to be, whoever did Clara's hair.

936
01:11:30.239 --> 01:11:32.819
It's in horror.

937
01:11:32.880 --> 01:11:41.220
I just hate it so much and they obviously come back and do a shield of hair in her episode with that cat lion creature as well.

938
01:11:41.279 --> 01:11:43.439
That bun on the top of the... woman who lived?

939
01:11:43.500 --> 01:11:43.859
Yeah.

940
01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:46.680
Yeah, I just yeah, I just hate her hair in that.

941
01:11:46.739 --> 01:11:55.979
And also I will also give it to the nightmare in silver, which I just think is woeful on many levels, more than just direction, I'm sorry to say.

942
01:11:56.039 --> 01:11:56.880
All right.

943
01:11:56.939 --> 01:11:59.579
Well, from bad to best.

944
01:11:59.699 --> 01:12:01.319
What is the Bonnie Langford Award?

945
01:12:01.380 --> 01:12:05.640
Michael Pickwode for that wonderful new console room.

946
01:12:05.699 --> 01:12:07.739
It looks beautiful.

947
01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:10.380
I enjoy everything that's set inside it.

948
01:12:10.380 --> 01:12:15.239
And it sort of, it harks back to the original beautiful TARDIS while not copying it.

949
01:12:15.300 --> 01:12:18.180
I think he just does a sterling job. isn't it fantastic?

950
01:12:18.239 --> 01:12:21.420
Right from the get go, the whole lighting and everything.

951
01:12:21.479 --> 01:12:25.619
It just, it's just a rush, you know, I just love it.

952
01:12:25.680 --> 01:12:28.979
I think that is the best Tardis console room.

953
01:12:29.039 --> 01:12:31.680
I go with the original, but yeah, it's pretty close.

954
01:12:31.739 --> 01:12:32.399
Yeah.

955
01:12:32.460 --> 01:12:35.640
I like all the editions that they put in with the capaldi.

956
01:12:35.699 --> 01:12:37.859
Like all the sort of bookshelves and all that.

957
01:12:37.920 --> 01:12:39.239
I think that's just enhances it even more.

958
01:12:39.359 --> 01:12:40.979
But that whole basic thing is great.

959
01:12:41.039 --> 01:12:41.939
Brendan?

960
01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:51.600
I do want to give a shout out to Jenna Coleman because I just love watching her on screen, but I don't usually think it's quite right to pick a specific regular.

961
01:12:51.659 --> 01:12:53.220
So I'm going to say Mark Williams.

962
01:12:53.279 --> 01:12:54.119
Yeah.

963
01:12:54.119 --> 01:13:04.140
Because, you know, he has been a dramatic actor before this for many years, but of course, I'm most familiar with him as Peterson from Red Dwarf, for God's sake.

964
01:13:04.199 --> 01:13:23.340
And then he comes into this and he's he's funny and he's silly and he's charming and he's dramatic and emotive and he's all the things and it's such a shame that the epilogue that Chris Chibnell wrote PS, which is a very good script, never got filmed.

965
01:13:23.399 --> 01:13:27.359
And I think this is a shame too, that he wasn't introduced earlier because he's that good.

966
01:13:27.420 --> 01:13:27.960
Yeah.

967
01:13:28.020 --> 01:13:29.159
Absolutely.

968
01:13:29.220 --> 01:13:29.520
Absolutely.

969
01:13:29.579 --> 01:13:30.840
Where was he at the wedding?

970
01:13:31.920 --> 01:13:34.140
Yeah, Spanish fluey.

971
01:13:34.319 --> 01:13:36.659
Snorged Bernard Cribbons.

972
01:13:36.899 --> 01:13:38.399
Nathan?

973
01:13:38.399 --> 01:13:59.100
I am going to give it to Mark Gaitis because I think that Gaitis has got a very definite wheelhouse and he usually does an okay job, but I think that the Unquiet Dead is a spectacularly good script from him in series one.

974
01:13:59.159 --> 01:14:08.520
And since then, he hasn't done anything that equals it until Crimson Horror, which is absolutely the sort of thing that he should be writing.

975
01:14:08.520 --> 01:14:12.000
And I just think it's really terrifically fun.

976
01:14:12.060 --> 01:14:13.319
So he's getting it for that.

977
01:14:13.380 --> 01:14:17.760
And if you want to extend that a little bit beyond this season, an adventure in space and time.

978
01:14:17.819 --> 01:14:18.300
Yeah.

979
01:14:18.300 --> 01:14:18.840
Yeah.

980
01:14:18.899 --> 01:14:19.739
He has a really good year.

981
01:14:20.100 --> 01:14:22.500
Yes, he does have a really good year.

982
01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:27.239
He does introduce like reintroduce the Ice Warriors and changes their concept.

983
01:14:27.300 --> 01:14:30.180
We haven't really talked about that. like I don't really like it.

984
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:37.859
Well, I think that there's a sort of stupid problem with the Ice Warriors, because the costumes in the 60s are so terrible.

985
01:14:37.979 --> 01:14:42.720
You can't tell where the lizard begins and the armour ends.

986
01:14:42.779 --> 01:14:44.579
That's just my everyday problem.

987
01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:45.960
Yeah, well, that's right.

988
01:14:46.020 --> 01:14:48.119
And like normal people aren't worried by that.

989
01:14:48.180 --> 01:14:58.140
But Mark Gators has to bring it back and make it absolutely clear which is which and why and now they're cyborgs and like I just couldn't possibly care less.

990
01:14:58.199 --> 01:15:02.159
And they have those little tiny claws, like, you know, do anything.

991
01:15:02.220 --> 01:15:09.359
They look like the dalek claw that comes out from under the cloak in the Daleks.

992
01:15:09.420 --> 01:15:14.279
Yeah, and when the series ignores all that and just makes the mice Warriors and the Empress of Mars, looks pretty good.

993
01:15:14.340 --> 01:15:15.479
It's better. better.

994
01:15:15.539 --> 01:15:18.899
My Bunny Langford goes jointly to Amy's hair.

995
01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:20.939
I'm on a hair thing.

996
01:15:20.939 --> 01:15:28.859
And Alice the Maid from the snowman. because she's just a wonderful character. just gets to scream and scream and scream and I think it's brilliant.

997
01:15:28.920 --> 01:15:31.680
I'm the lizard woman of paternostero and this is my wife.

998
01:15:31.739 --> 01:15:35.939
She has guests to scream and scream and scream and she gets the Bonnie Langford award.

999
01:15:51.840 --> 01:15:58.680
As always, we end with, you know, where are you at with the next little thing, which is the specials and the end of the Matt Smith era.

1000
01:15:58.920 --> 01:16:01.199
One of our listeners sent this in.

1001
01:16:01.260 --> 01:16:02.220
Richard Stonewall.

1002
01:16:02.279 --> 01:16:09.600
Is it possible that almost everyone was too busy to remember that this was the 50th anniversary, and that is why everyone forgot to cast Katie Manning?

1003
01:16:11.159 --> 01:16:13.199
She was probably busy.

1004
01:16:13.739 --> 01:16:25.199
Um, I do think it was one of the periods where Katie Manning was living in Australia, possibly, but yes, it's a definite oversight that we don't have any returning companions this year.

1005
01:16:25.260 --> 01:16:32.939
Now, of course, we have lost Liz already, but that's the perfect time to bring in Katie Manning or Sarah Sutton or Bonnie Langford.

1006
01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:33.720
Jackie Lane.

1007
01:16:33.779 --> 01:16:34.260
Jackie Lane.

1008
01:16:34.319 --> 01:16:34.739
Lane.

1009
01:16:34.800 --> 01:16:35.100
Why not?

1010
01:16:35.159 --> 01:16:38.039
Would have been a different spin on Tasha Lem.

1011
01:16:38.520 --> 01:16:44.399
I mean, Jackie Lane would have been great instead of that Irish Romulan woman that got in.

1012
01:16:44.640 --> 01:16:55.800
I mean, Jackie Lane does give the best performance of the Doctor Who live event. that's true She's like, I'm in France and I'm too good to come back and talk to you about this.

1013
01:16:55.859 --> 01:16:57.420
I'm gonna puff on a cigarette now.

1014
01:16:57.479 --> 01:17:01.979
And in fact, Dodo was the original impossible girl with that ever changing accent.

1015
01:17:02.520 --> 01:17:05.399
See, I got an archoke in.

1016
01:17:07.079 --> 01:17:15.479
Well, I'm just imagining now Jenna Cole, but sitting in a country house and like from the back you've got Dodo and Jenna leaning over and saying, you know, it's really nice here.

1017
01:17:15.539 --> 01:17:16.380
You should stay.

1018
01:17:16.979 --> 01:17:20.579
Why couldn't we bring back the visions or whatever they're called?

1019
01:17:20.640 --> 01:17:21.720
Maybe he did.

1020
01:17:22.560 --> 01:17:28.140
There's actually, yeah, there's a Visian in every episode. played by Jenna Coleman.

1021
01:17:28.199 --> 01:17:37.140
The end of the Matt Smith era and the specials, I have a lot of warmth for what's coming up and I think it's actually executed very well.

1022
01:17:37.199 --> 01:17:39.180
I just wish there was more Matt Smith.

1023
01:17:39.239 --> 01:17:39.600
Yeah.

1024
01:17:39.600 --> 01:17:39.960
Yeah.

1025
01:17:40.020 --> 01:17:41.460
There almost was.

1026
01:17:41.520 --> 01:17:44.579
Like, he was in discussions to stay on for another year.

1027
01:17:44.640 --> 01:17:53.520
The BBC even made an announcement where they all but confirmed he was staying on for another year, but it was worded as Matt Smith is very much looking forward to series 8.

1028
01:17:53.579 --> 01:17:56.760
Not Matt Smith is looking forward to working on Sarah.

1029
01:17:56.760 --> 01:17:57.420
He wants to watch it.

1030
01:17:57.479 --> 01:17:59.520
He sits at home and watches it on Saturday night.

1031
01:17:59.579 --> 01:18:16.380
And, you know, I think there are some things in the following series that were written for Matt Smith that take on a very different tone when you have an older actor playing the role, such as the caretaker, where the love triangle aspect would have been played for comedy with Matt Smith.

1032
01:18:16.439 --> 01:18:18.960
Whereas it's just freaking nasty with Cabaldi.

1033
01:18:19.020 --> 01:18:24.300
I guess the one thing I should have said, and I haven't done in this, is Matt Smith.

1034
01:18:24.359 --> 01:18:25.560
Your thoughts on Matt Smith this year?

1035
01:18:25.619 --> 01:18:45.359
I think that we've said this over the last few weeks, which is that Matt is a little bit unmoored without Arthur and Karen and that the writers are occasionally getting Matt Smith to do Matt Smith things instead of just getting him to do things in a Matt Smith way.

1036
01:18:45.420 --> 01:18:54.960
And I think the absolute culmination of all of that is those fairly difficult to watch scenes in nightmare in silver.

1037
01:18:55.020 --> 01:18:56.640
It's a very good sum of that.

1038
01:18:56.699 --> 01:19:06.359
And I actually think they rectify that in the next 2 stories where he's actually given much better material and is so much better and is not spinning on his wheels.

1039
01:19:06.420 --> 01:19:09.119
No, but Thisis Moffatt giving it his full attention.

1040
01:19:09.180 --> 01:19:15.180
And so he's absolutely doing the best he can for the 50th anniversary and to send Matt off.

1041
01:19:15.239 --> 01:19:15.960
Absolutely.

1042
01:19:16.020 --> 01:19:20.640
And it's Matt, you know, Matt, no matter what they ask him to do, never lets you down.

1043
01:19:20.640 --> 01:19:24.960
And I think is one of the few doctors that you're really bereft to see go.

1044
01:19:25.020 --> 01:19:26.699
I mean, you're excited about the future.

1045
01:19:26.760 --> 01:19:30.600
You're always excited about a new doctor, but I really did want another season with him.

1046
01:19:30.659 --> 01:19:31.380
Yeah.

1047
01:19:31.380 --> 01:19:34.979
Yeah, it's kind of like as great as David Tennant was.

1048
01:19:35.100 --> 01:19:42.659
When he goes, it's like, you know, this is actually a good time for you to go because you've had such a breadth of material and whatnot.

1049
01:19:42.720 --> 01:19:46.560
And Matt Smith, I think, has the same breadth of material, but I still want to see more from him.

1050
01:19:46.739 --> 01:20:02.640
This season for him feels like Tom Baker in season 16 and 17 in that, yes, he is off the rails, but I think a lot of people sort of say with Tom in the Graham Williams era in that, he's off the rails and he doesn't care about the show anymore.

1051
01:20:02.699 --> 01:20:05.760
It's like he's off the rails, but he absolutely cares about the show.

1052
01:20:05.880 --> 01:20:12.420
And when you look at Matt Smith here, you get, yeah, he is like throwing himself around in Nightmare and Silver and whatnot.

1053
01:20:12.479 --> 01:20:21.359
And then the following week in name of the doctor, he cries at its proper ugly crying and speaking in a hoarse whisper and what have you.

1054
01:20:21.420 --> 01:20:25.739
But then, you know, you've got the ring tobacca 10 as well, where he's making the big shouty speech.

1055
01:20:25.800 --> 01:20:37.319
But then when he gives Clara back her ring, it's just this really quiet figure, they wanted to say thank you and he's absolutely thinking about the performance and sometimes it is perhaps too big.

1056
01:20:37.380 --> 01:20:52.739
But he is still always capable of bringing it down to that low level that I think is what in the audition. surprised Stephen Moffat and made him suddenly go, oh, bloody hell, I want to cast someone in their 40s and I'm now casting the youngest doctor of all time.

1057
01:20:52.800 --> 01:20:58.020
It's because he has that quality to suddenly feel the weight of a 1000 years.

1058
01:20:58.079 --> 01:21:02.220
And he's still bringing that in some of the best times he brings that here.

1059
01:21:02.279 --> 01:21:05.340
Yeah, and even in amidst all the problems.

1060
01:21:05.399 --> 01:21:09.960
He still, as I think we said on the episode, delivers probably his best performance in a town called Mercy.

1061
01:21:34.800 --> 01:21:38.279
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for for now.

1062
01:21:38.399 --> 01:21:49.079
We'll be back at the end of November for a massive week of 50th anniversary celebrations, starting all the way back in 1963 with an adventure in space and time.

1063
01:21:49.619 --> 01:22:08.039
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook, at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project.

1064
01:22:08.100 --> 01:22:15.479
Until next time, remember to give yourself some proper thinking time when deciding whether to snog, marry, or avoid.

1065
01:22:15.539 --> 01:22:17.819
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1066
01:22:17.880 --> 01:22:18.960
Good night.

1067
01:22:19.020 --> 01:22:19.979
See you soon.

1068
01:22:20.039 --> 01:22:20.939
Good night.

1069
01:22:25.260 --> 01:22:27.779
That was Flight through Entirety.

1070
01:22:27.840 --> 01:22:30.539
Todd Bilby, Nathan Bottleley, Peter Griffiths, and Brendan Jones.

1071
01:22:30.600 --> 01:22:32.520
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1072
01:22:32.579 --> 01:22:38.939
This episode, everyone's so damn special, was recorded on the 17th of July 2022 and released on the 30th of October.

1073
01:22:39.420 --> 01:22:46.319
That's the end of our Series 7 coverage, and so I'd like to thank everyone who joined us on the sofa of reasonable comfort this year.

1074
01:22:46.380 --> 01:22:55.680
Fiona Tolney, Stephen B, Adam Richard, Kevin Bernard, Jack Shanahan, Mark McManus, Syhart, Pete Lambert, Corey McMahon, and Matthew Hansel.

1075
01:22:55.739 --> 01:22:57.060
We'll see you next month.

1076
01:23:00.960 --> 01:23:07.739
I think that's where, um, in the second half of the season, because he's got his hand in so many different things.

1077
01:23:07.800 --> 01:23:10.140
He doesn't have time to reflect on that stuff.

1078
01:23:10.199 --> 01:23:10.680
Yeah.

1079
01:23:10.739 --> 01:23:17.579
And he can deliver something that's very good, but he doesn't have time to do that reform and to actually go, no, I need to do that.

1080
01:23:17.699 --> 01:23:18.600
I think...

1081
01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:21.000
There was a bit of that last year as well, wasn't there?

1082
01:23:21.060 --> 01:23:26.159
Like, you know, those sort of undercooked episodes around the finale and the mid-season finale.

1083
01:23:26.220 --> 01:23:27.720
But isn't isn't this where?

1084
01:23:27.720 --> 01:23:30.720
Sherlock's really taking off like these years?

1085
01:23:30.899 --> 01:23:31.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1086
01:23:31.800 --> 01:23:35.640
And I think it really is putting a lot of effort into the 50th.

1087
01:23:35.640 --> 01:23:37.739
And there's all problems around the 50th, isn't there?

1088
01:23:37.800 --> 01:23:38.579
No one's contractor.

1089
01:23:38.640 --> 01:23:41.520
Jenna Coleman is the only actor contracted.

1090
01:23:41.640 --> 01:23:45.000
When they when they finish shooting name of the doctor.

1091
01:23:45.060 --> 01:23:46.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1092
01:23:46.319 --> 01:23:47.399
Matt's not there.

1093
01:23:47.460 --> 01:23:57.600
Yeah, we've tried to get Eggleston, but no one ever talks about the fact that Matt put off other work and delayed his move to Hollywood as a favour to Stephen.

1094
01:23:57.659 --> 01:23:58.439
Right.

1095
01:23:58.439 --> 01:23:59.460
He wasn't contracted.

1096
01:23:59.520 --> 01:24:01.140
He just did it because Stephen asked.

1097
01:24:01.199 --> 01:24:01.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1098
01:24:01.979 --> 01:24:13.859
And and didn't he also, like, in that, um, maybe not in the, in the last scene of name of the doctor, but hadn't he hurt his back and there was meant to be a bit, there was apparently meant to be a bit more of an action scene there.

1099
01:24:13.920 --> 01:24:18.539
But it's kind of like, yeah, you know, the doctor's stumbling around because he's in his own psych.

1100
01:24:18.600 --> 01:24:21.180
Like, no, the doctor's stumbling around because Matt Smith can't stand up.

1101
01:24:21.239 --> 01:24:24.420
Isn't that the same thing that happened to Peter Capaldi?

1102
01:24:24.479 --> 01:24:25.560
You know, they had the same name.

1103
01:24:25.859 --> 01:24:26.819
They all injure it.

1104
01:24:26.819 --> 01:24:27.779
Because Tenon?

1105
01:24:27.779 --> 01:24:29.279
heard his back, remember?

1106
01:24:29.340 --> 01:24:30.479
Like, that's the whole thing.

1107
01:24:30.539 --> 01:24:31.739
It's just...

1108
01:24:31.739 --> 01:24:32.819
With Capone...

1109
01:24:32.880 --> 01:24:35.699
Yeah, with Capaldi as well, he also runs like 2 marathons a year.

1110
01:24:35.760 --> 01:24:37.199
So it was a little bit doctor.

1111
01:24:37.199 --> 01:24:38.880
I runs like a penguin.

1112
01:24:38.939 --> 01:24:41.279
I would love to see Cavaldi run.

1113
01:24:41.460 --> 01:24:43.619
Could have got a whole commentary.

1114
01:24:43.680 --> 01:24:49.319
It was Armano Yanucci who said that you can't put anything funnier on television than Peter Capaldi running.

1115
01:24:49.439 --> 01:24:55.380
So Malcolm Tucker's running out by the bins at the back in the final episode in the thick of it.

1116
01:24:55.439 --> 01:24:56.100
It's so good.

1117
01:24:56.760 --> 01:25:03.539
Reading up on some of the script developments, and I can't specifically remember, but there are some lines, I think, in the bells of St.

1118
01:25:03.539 --> 01:25:12.539
John, which, you know, are kind of sexista, ha, ha, women jokes, and the complete history just notes.

1119
01:25:12.600 --> 01:25:14.939
Stephen Moffatt decided to remove this line.

1120
01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:21.720
So it's very clear that when he's writing these, it's just kind, not exactly stream of consciousness, but he's deciding, I'll cut stuff out later.

1121
01:25:21.779 --> 01:25:26.279
And I think sometimes he just hasn't caught stuff, but really should be caught.

1122
01:25:26.340 --> 01:25:33.479
When you crack jokes sometimes, you go for the lowest common denominator, and if you have your time, you think, oh, no, actually, because, you know, it's the nature of humour.

1123
01:25:33.539 --> 01:25:45.840
But also, you know, in Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS, where Bram cuts away a bit of the console, I like to think that that's the bit that Jody's hanging onto, which comes apart and chucks her out the door and twice upon a time.

1124
01:25:47.279 --> 01:25:56.579
Oh, that's the other Ginny leader ward, making that one of those the brother, the brothers think that he's an android?

1125
01:25:56.640 --> 01:25:58.680
Oh, God, so appalling. dumb.

1126
01:25:58.739 --> 01:26:06.659
Like, you know, it's, it's clearly Steve, Steve Thompson has gone, you know, the twist is always this person we thought was human was an Android.

1127
01:26:06.720 --> 01:26:10.560
What if we do it the other way round and no one says, this is why you don't.

1128
01:26:10.680 --> 01:26:12.600
What does he eat?

1129
01:26:12.659 --> 01:26:13.319
Nuts.

1130
01:26:13.920 --> 01:26:15.779
Dumb, isn't it?

1131
01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:16.680
Plug himself in?

1132
01:26:16.739 --> 01:26:18.779
You know, it might work if he was the only one.

1133
01:26:19.079 --> 01:26:23.460
You know, and he's like the brother of Theseus.

1134
01:26:23.520 --> 01:26:25.079
They've just been replaced.

1135
01:26:25.140 --> 01:26:28.920
But, you know, no, I'm still thinking human who thinks he's an Android.

1136
01:26:28.979 --> 01:26:30.300
No, Android who thinks he's a human.

1137
01:26:30.359 --> 01:26:31.920
What the fuck?

1138
01:26:31.979 --> 01:26:33.119
dumb shit.

1139
01:26:33.180 --> 01:26:33.840
Dumb.

1140
01:26:33.899 --> 01:26:35.279
All right.

1141
01:26:35.340 --> 01:26:37.140
I'm going to press stop because we were swearing now.