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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:52:27

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Fly Through Entirety, the

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only Doctor Who podcast that just can't get 2 whole series

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completed in the time allotted and has to content itself with

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one.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Peter.

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Well, we've travelled from Scaro all the way to Transalore, and on

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the way we've experienced new kinds of Dalek, history's slowest

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alien invasion, some heartbreaking farewells, the return of a

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justly forgotten enemy, several different types of Jenna Coleman

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ghosts, carjackers, Neil Gaiman on a bad day, Dame Diana Rigg, in

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all her glory, some old doctors we loved, and another old doctor

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that we've never even heard of before.

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So it's time to take stock and make sense of the last 2 years

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which is why it's also time for our series 7 retrospective.

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Hello, listeners, and welcome to our retrospective.

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I'm always start with the hard hitting questions here.

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So Nathan, Brendan, Peter.

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Snog Marrier Void.

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Oswin Oswald, Clara Oswald, or Clara Oswald.

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Avoid all.

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Wow.

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I think I would have to snog Victorian Clara Oswald because she

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seems like a lot of fun.

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I would marry modern day Clara Oswald, but specifically the series

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7 version before she gets Grim Dark.

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And I suppose I'm avoiding Oswald Oswald because she will shoot me

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in the face.

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I would marry Oswald Oswald because she can cook and she's good

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with computers.

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So we could bond over that.

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I would avoid Victorian Clara Oswald just to be contrary.

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Really?

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Because everyone loves her so much and I would snog our Clara

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Oswald because she has snogged Jane Austen, so I would just be 2

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steps away from snogging Jane Austen myself.

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You got to be careful of snogging Victorians because their teeth

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might let them down.

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I would like to start here and now a movement to rechristen

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Victorian Clara as Beryl.

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Yes.

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Which was the character's original name.

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And in early drafts of Cold War, she's still called Beryl.

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That was my grandmother's name.

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Yeah, Stephen Moffat's got to hide it.

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It's his mother-in-law's name.

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Well, I would marry Beryl.

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I'm avoiding the Dalek, Clara, because she would shoot me in the

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face and I will snog modern day Clara, because she's been in a

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snog box.

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So there you go.

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There you go, yeah.

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All right.

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So there's a number of questions from our listeners.

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And I just want to read a few of these because they're all on the

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same sort of page.

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So, Rod who?

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Arsis, does Series 7 work as a cohesive poll with consistent

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themes slash arc, or is it better regarded as 2 distinctly

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separate seasons?

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Fraser Gregory, champion of the damned, at Felix Fraser, says

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given the big gap in the middle and the change in companion

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Tartar's interior, the doctor's outfit, an overall story arc that

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takes place from the snowman onwards, would this be considered

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series 7 and 8 rather than 7 A and 7 B?

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I'm not finished.

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The next two, Joey at Doco Ho.

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Was this the point where Stephen Moffat's workload was too much

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and he took his eye off the ball this series.

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And Stephen Alexander says, are things going terribly wrong behind

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the scenes and does this show on screen?

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We've got a lot of changes in directions after this year, like two

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part stories or one-part story, story arcs, individual blockbuster

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episodes?

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What do you think about this or are they just cosmetic?

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All right.

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Two different series?

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It is a single series, but it is definitely a series of 2 halves.

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So you have the 1st half of the series, which is finishing up the

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Amy and Rory trauma and, you know, ends in a horrible way and, you

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know, the doctor goes into seclusion and whatnot.

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And the following 2nd half is the doctor learning to have farm

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again.

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And yeah, in a way, it's a story of it's a story of a breakup and

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then a recovery from that breakup and learning to trust and what

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have you.

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And as much as I think journey to the centre of the TARDIS is one

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of the worst Doctor Who stories ever made, it does have that

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climactic moment where the doctor actually starts to trust Clara

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and then it's entirely erased.

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Well, entirely, because we do remember it later.

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Yeah, yeah, that's true.

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But yeah, it's dealing with the fallout of the silence arc and

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then bring the doctor down and then bring the doctor back up

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again.

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You can watch it and you can see that things are not going as

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smoothly behind the scenes as they have been for the last 6

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series.

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I think that 7A is vastly better than 7B. Agreed.

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And I think it's because we have the 3 regulars together who we've

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had for 2 previous years who work incredibly well together.

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I think that there's maturity to the relationship between the

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doctor and Amy, which we've watched develop over 2.5 years.

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And I think that 1st half is actually incredibly strong.

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And even Chris Chibnell, whom I criticise sort of fairly

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frequently.

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There's a jar.

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Yeah, there is.

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It's full to burst.

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But I think he produces some of his best work.

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I think that the power of 3 is spectacular despite the production

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problems.

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I think to that, I've said this before, that Moffatt reacts

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against his previous season.

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And so his 1st season is what if a Davey season only by Moffat?

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The 2nd series is let's swap the beginning and end around and do

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something as moffity as sort of possible.

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And here he's reacting against that.

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It's almost like, I don't know, series 5 and 6 were good and he's

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going to react against it by not being quite as good.

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Certainly, the serialisation thing is present in both halves and

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different in both halves, but much lighter than what we've had

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before.

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And I think it's just a little bit less ambitious and I'd be lying

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if I denied that I was a bit bored by series 7 B. Peter.

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A couple of things.

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I think it does feel like 2 separate seasons.

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And as we've pointed out, it's because the 2nd half is weaker than

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the first.

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I think production wise, because the episodes were made in such a

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different order, it might have felt more like a cohesive whole

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whereas this very definitely has 2 sides to it.

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I also think we missed 2 partters.

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And so there's no stories which have any real weight to them.

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A lot of episodes feel a little bit lightweight and a little bit

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ephemeral.

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And so you reach the end and you think, well, that was a season of

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episodes.

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I do think the Amy and Rory stuff is much stronger than the Clara

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stuff, but I think that could just be a factor of there not being

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that many strong episodes in the 2nd half of the season.

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It's like Cold War is sort of perfectly reasonable.

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There's nothing sort of massively wrong with it, but it's hard to

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imagine anyone putting it in their top 10 and it is not

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particularly memorable.

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I don't know.

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I think there is a big problem too, where you can kind of sense

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him spinning his wheels until the 50th anniversary comes along, and

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so it's a combination of Sherlock, I suppose, and the 50th

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anniversary where he just kind of takes his eye off the ball for a

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bit.

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It's also that poorly defined arc with Clara.

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It's a good idea to make her the impossible girl.

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It's a nice mystery to set up, but then he doesn't really

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structure it in the way that the season arc must resist making an

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archoke.

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It's not really the way that a season arc works because as we said

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with series 6, he just kind of sets up the mystery and then

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revisits the mystery every so often rather than moving it forward

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in certain percent.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Like, yep, yep, the pregnancy test is still up on the screen.

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Exactly.

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Clara is still an impossible goal.

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Yeah.

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I think another problem that makes the 2nd half of the series feel

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thinner is that the 1st half of the series is all about Amy and

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Rory's relationship.

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And as you say, Nathan, we've had time to get to know them, so

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it's meaningful.

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And in the 2nd half of the series, Stephen Moffatt has said, I can

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explore Clara as a character and what motivates her as a person

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her conflicts, her dreams, et cetera.

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Or I can explore the mystery.

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And he chooses almost exclusively to explore the mystery.

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Like bells and rings of acaten go into her sort of backstory and

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her motivation.

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And then after that, they kind of go, okay, that's done now.

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And I think that is what makes it feel so much thinner.

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And the reason it's entertaining at all, I think, is down to Jenna

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Coleman's talent as an actor and also her chemistry with Matt

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Smith. because they clearly adore each other.

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I think, in a sort of Tom and Liz Sladen kind of way.

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You know, they bounce off each other and part of that is dialogue

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of course, but the rhythm they get into, especially in things like

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Cold War, where they have the whole pyramids of Miles conversation

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about how time can be changed, how many times have we heard that?

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Basically every time there's a new assistant.

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And yet there, because Clara's sort of sitting up in her chair and

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looking around and, and, and, sort of being almost bird-like.

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There's a new energy there that I think is the most successful

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part of that back half.

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Well, it's interesting listening to all of your opinions.

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Yeah, it's definitely, it's the one season.

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It's like season 14 where you've got Sarah Jane's stuff in 1976

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and then the BBC build, the 2nd half with Leela as a new season.

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Again, I agree with all the things that you're saying about the

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Clara arc.

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You know, it's light on in that 1st half.

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He does introduce it.

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There's that link there.

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I would have loved Clara to have turned up at the end of a town

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called Mercy in a stagecoach just having missed the doctor.

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You know, just something just to sort of link that a bit more.

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And obviously, as Nathan, you've been saying, you know, we've been

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with Amy and Rory for so long that the exploration of their

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relationship and we know that their time on the show is ending and

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those episodes are so strong in that 1st half.

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And in the 2nd half, I think the unfortunate thing is that we do

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have, as she was saying, Brendan, we've got turposodes that do

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explore Clara and that arc, and then he sort of leaves it till the

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end and a journey to the centre of the TARDIS, which just has that

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reset.

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And I think the problem is then none of the other episodes deal

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with that.

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So it seems light on.

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And I certainly think having Cold War and hide back to back isn't

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great, you know, because they're the 1st ones that she recorded it

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as Clara and the character is really not there.

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It's what Jenna is doing.

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I think one of those needed to go and we needed to have a journey

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to the centre of the TARDIS.

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And another episode where I think that should have explored that

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Arkmore, have another Clara turn up or have the great intelligence

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again.

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I think Crimson Horror does work because you've got the link to

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the whole gang that are there, right?

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So that does work.

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But unfortunately, you've got the ending of things like hide, of

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Journey to the centre of the TARDIS.

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Cold War is, I think, light on, and then you've got nightmare in

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silver, which I think is just appalling, right?

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Towards the end of like at the end, which dragged this 2nd part of

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the season down.

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So there are good episodes, but back to what we were saying or

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what the questions are asking.

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Stephen is doing other things.

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So his episodes deal with things, and there's only really one

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episode journey to the centre of the TARDIS, and it deals with

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Clara, and he had some, obviously, work on rings, but the other

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ones don't.

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And you've got other writers doing double shits.

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You've got Chris Chibnell, who does a great job on both episodes.

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One is better than the other.

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I would say power of the 3 is the weaker one of the two.

248
00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:26.279
They're both good.

249
00:13:26.340 --> 00:13:27.179
But they're both good.

250
00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:31.500
You've got Neil Cross, who delivers, I think, I really like rings

251
00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:34.440
it does fall apart towards the end, and I think Hyde is good, but

252
00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:38.759
again, I find the ending and that sort of negates and it's very

253
00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:39.299
generic.

254
00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:42.419
Like, it's good to a point, but I just find it, well, you know

255
00:13:42.419 --> 00:13:42.960
it's good enough.

256
00:13:43.019 --> 00:13:43.740
Yeah.

257
00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:49.200
And then you've got Mark Gators, who gives us a fantastic episode

258
00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:52.200
and then you get Cold War, which should work better than what it

259
00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:54.059
does, but I just find it very generic.

260
00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:54.600
Yeah.

261
00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:58.139
So he's actually spooning out to other people to do writers he can

262
00:13:58.139 --> 00:13:58.500
trust.

263
00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:02.940
And I actually think it's maybe 2 individual writers that let him

264
00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:05.639
down and he can't go and rescue those scripts to the same degree.

265
00:14:05.700 --> 00:14:07.919
There's a thing there about the storytelling.

266
00:14:07.980 --> 00:14:11.700
It's what one of our listeners was picking up on whether it's

267
00:14:11.700 --> 00:14:13.080
Stephen is too thinly stretched.

268
00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:15.480
That was Joe, friend of the podcast.

269
00:14:15.539 --> 00:14:17.159
Joe. Oh, lovely Joe. Okay.

270
00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:20.399
The storytelling in this season doesn't quite match. previous

271
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:21.360
seasons, I think.

272
00:14:21.419 --> 00:14:24.059
It's quite chaotic in some scenes.

273
00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:27.299
There's a lot of scenes where it's the opposite of clear pacing

274
00:14:27.299 --> 00:14:27.960
and action.

275
00:14:28.019 --> 00:14:30.600
Like things just happen and people are shouting and there's things

276
00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:31.080
going on.

277
00:14:31.139 --> 00:14:33.480
And I actually can't follow what's happening.

278
00:14:33.539 --> 00:14:36.960
I'm thinking of scenes from Cold War, quite a bit of nightmare in

279
00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:41.100
silver, um, and some of dinosaurs on a spaceship where it's just

280
00:14:41.100 --> 00:14:42.120
sound and fury.

281
00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:45.179
And I think this really needed to go back to the drawing board

282
00:14:45.179 --> 00:14:47.820
this scene, to work out what's happening because you can't

283
00:14:47.820 --> 00:14:49.200
bamboozle your viewers like this.

284
00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:52.080
Stephen was heading in this direction, I think, but it really

285
00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:54.240
becomes a problem, I think, in the 2nd half of this season.

286
00:14:54.299 --> 00:14:59.940
I think there is a thing where the arc storytelling in the Moffat

287
00:14:59.940 --> 00:15:03.360
era is different from the arc storytelling in the Davies era.

288
00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:09.179
So the Davies era is all about basically, you know, Daleks or the

289
00:15:09.179 --> 00:15:11.039
master or the cyberman.

290
00:15:11.100 --> 00:15:15.299
You know, his arcs are structured around who the big villain is

291
00:15:15.299 --> 00:15:17.580
for the series that he's introducing.

292
00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:21.899
Whereas Moffatts are structured around the characters.

293
00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:27.120
So it's Amy avoiding her wedding, Amy's pregnancy and her

294
00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:29.340
relationship with River and so on.

295
00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:32.399
And series 7 is about Amy and Rory ageing out of their

296
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:34.919
relationship with the doctor, kind of outgrowing him.

297
00:15:34.980 --> 00:15:38.940
And eventually, Amy making a decision to follow Rory at the

298
00:15:38.940 --> 00:15:40.860
exclusion of the doctor.

299
00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:47.639
And so there's a big mistake in 7B of having a science fiction arc

300
00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:52.080
who is the impossible girl rather than, should I say, a space

301
00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:53.100
reason?

302
00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:57.000
A science fiction arc, which isn't a character arc.

303
00:15:57.059 --> 00:16:01.980
And so he deliberately prioritises the mystery of Clara instead of

304
00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:04.320
the character of Clara.

305
00:16:04.379 --> 00:16:08.519
And while that was okay in the classic series, it doesn't work in

306
00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:10.019
modern television.

307
00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:14.519
And so that 2nd half of the season ends up just not really being

308
00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:15.960
about anything interesting.

309
00:16:16.019 --> 00:16:22.019
And in terms of the classic series, you can have both because you

310
00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:23.220
had both with Ace.

311
00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:27.419
It wasn't anywhere near as refined as we would get with Russell T

312
00:16:27.419 --> 00:16:29.460
Davies because they were always up against the clock, but

313
00:16:29.460 --> 00:16:32.460
basically they decide we're going to develop ace as a character

314
00:16:32.460 --> 00:16:36.779
and we're going to put these hints in and then we're going to do a

315
00:16:36.779 --> 00:16:39.840
story that explains that actually she's been manipulated, her

316
00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:42.120
bloodline's been manipulated since birth.

317
00:16:42.299 --> 00:16:45.419
But because we know who AC is as a character and we've seen her

318
00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:50.279
overcome fears and overcome adversity and express outrage at

319
00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:51.480
things she finds injust.

320
00:16:51.539 --> 00:16:54.059
We really care about that revelation.

321
00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:58.200
Whereas I feel like the only reason I care about what Clara is

322
00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:01.500
doing in the name of the doctor is because I just really like how

323
00:17:01.500 --> 00:17:02.700
Jenna Coleman is playing the character.

324
00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:05.759
It's a bit like, you know, I always say I love Mel.

325
00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:09.660
Really, I love Bonnie Langford because Mel is not a character on

326
00:17:09.660 --> 00:17:10.200
television.

327
00:17:10.259 --> 00:17:14.160
Mel is a slightly sedate version of Bonnie Langford.

328
00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:15.359
Yeah, what are you talking about?

329
00:17:15.420 --> 00:17:17.160
She's a computer programmer.

330
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:20.400
That's a whole sentence near me.

331
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:27.299
But it is interesting, I think, that with Clara.

332
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:29.339
Like, she's just an ordinary girl in the end.

333
00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:31.079
I don't know, interesting is quite the word.

334
00:17:31.140 --> 00:17:34.740
I wanted it to be something more, and I kind of feel because it's

335
00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:37.799
so light on in episodes, you kind of, I kind of wanted more of a

336
00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:38.279
payoff.

337
00:17:38.339 --> 00:17:41.220
Obviously, he goes in a different direction with a brand new

338
00:17:41.220 --> 00:17:44.279
doctor we've never seen and that's where it's headed for obvious

339
00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:48.660
reasons, but I just kind of always felt like it was built up and I

340
00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:50.099
just wanted something more from it.

341
00:17:50.220 --> 00:17:55.980
And I also do think with going back to the character, like with

342
00:17:55.980 --> 00:17:59.579
Amy and Rory, we get their daughter, River.

343
00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:04.079
We get Rory's father, Brian, in the 1st half of the season.

344
00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:05.279
You've got a real family there.

345
00:18:05.339 --> 00:18:09.720
With Clara, you get Artie and Angie Maitland and her parents, Dave

346
00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:12.180
and Ellie Oswald, are literally just brushed over.

347
00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:14.160
Yeah, well, one of them's dead.

348
00:18:14.220 --> 00:18:18.420
And, you know, there is something to explore there.

349
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:23.279
You know, she's someone who's been bereaved. and she's someone who

350
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:29.460
has plans to go somewhere, but has put them on hold because

351
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:34.680
because I think of that bereavement, because Angie and Artie have

352
00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:38.759
lost their mother, she's in there, in the place of their mother, we

353
00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:42.420
see her interacting with Mary, in Rings of Acherton.

354
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:45.059
We see her interacting with the kids in Bells of St.

355
00:18:45.059 --> 00:18:49.259
John and in Nightmare and Silver, but that doesn't go anywhere and

356
00:18:49.259 --> 00:18:51.299
heaps of the stories aren't about that at all.

357
00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:56.279
And maybe that sort of character background isn't the sort of

358
00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:58.920
thing that's productive of new story ideas.

359
00:18:58.980 --> 00:19:04.079
But there is an attempt to make her character have some definite

360
00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:07.859
characteristics and some background, but it doesn't go anywhere

361
00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:10.259
and many of the stories completely ignore it.

362
00:19:10.380 --> 00:19:13.200
And that's a pretty generic soapy idea.

363
00:19:13.259 --> 00:19:13.799
Yeah, yeah.

364
00:19:13.859 --> 00:19:17.220
But I just think if they did, if they had explored that more after

365
00:19:17.220 --> 00:19:21.420
those 1st 2 episodes that she's in, then I just think if we'd had

366
00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:24.779
another episode or 2 that had more gravitas in the 2nd half of the

367
00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:28.680
season and linking that to the, to the arc that's there, I think

368
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:32.099
it would have lifted this 2nd half of the series more and you

369
00:19:32.099 --> 00:19:34.859
wouldn't come away just thinking, well, there's a run of episodes

370
00:19:34.859 --> 00:19:37.440
and there's, there's a link between everything and it's all

371
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:37.859
resolved.

372
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:38.579
Yeah.

373
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:42.299
In fact, the problem is that the solution to the mystery is that

374
00:19:42.299 --> 00:19:47.039
she's completely ordinary and that's kind of boring and it's

375
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:48.480
revealed to us in episode four.

376
00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:51.180
I think we know it's high.

377
00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:53.400
Well, yeah, we are told that in hype.

378
00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:56.640
But in typical Moffatt fashion, the series then spends the next 3

379
00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:58.259
episodes going, or is she?

380
00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:59.880
I was like, no, she actually is.

381
00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:04.079
Well, I think it's typical of Moffatt to just reveal it's the most

382
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:04.980
obvious answer.

383
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.500
It's like that's why Hyde is such an ordinary episode.

384
00:20:07.740 --> 00:20:10.140
Because I really like Hyde.

385
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:17.640
Something I said last week, which is a positive about Clara being

386
00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:21.180
and I hesitate to use the word thin, but perhaps underdeveloped

387
00:20:21.180 --> 00:20:23.819
character, is that the audience can imprint on her.

388
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:24.900
Yeah.

389
00:20:24.900 --> 00:20:30.539
So it means in the name of the doctor, the fan at home, the viewer

390
00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:35.039
can imagine themselves stepping into save the doctor, which it's

391
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:40.559
an idea that was used in the earliest video games. video game

392
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:42.779
protagonists didn't have characters early on.

393
00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:46.319
And even at Nintendo in the legend of Zelda series, which is

394
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:50.160
hugely famous, they still don't give Link, who's ostensibly the

395
00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:52.920
protagonist much character, and they're like, we don't write

396
00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:55.980
dialogue for Link, because when other characters are talking to

397
00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:58.619
him, we want you at home talking to the screen about what you

398
00:20:58.619 --> 00:21:01.019
would do, it doesn't impact the game, but it draws you in.

399
00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:01.619
Yeah.

400
00:21:01.619 --> 00:21:05.579
And to me, that's one of the strengths of this early version of

401
00:21:05.579 --> 00:21:10.859
Clara is that she could be anyone and she is ordinary at the end.

402
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:16.079
And something I'd complained about for Amy and Amy and Rory was

403
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:19.980
you know, all this stuff happens to them and everyone's so damn

404
00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:22.380
special as the old thing goes, and, you know, that goes back to

405
00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:23.160
Donna as well.

406
00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:27.000
Whereas the thing that's special about Clara is actually a

407
00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:30.359
McGuffin, and Clara herself is just an ordinary person who, at a

408
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:34.440
moment of extreme crisis, does a noble thing that saves the

409
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:34.859
doctor.

410
00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:38.099
Also, with the earlier versions of Clara as well.

411
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:42.359
Like both of them, like Victorian Clara, of course, you know, is

412
00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:44.400
dragged off the cloud and whatnot, so it doesn't have as much

413
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:49.259
agency in it, but Oswin absolutely says, well, no, if I can't be

414
00:21:49.259 --> 00:21:51.539
rescued, then I'm going to help you escape and I'm going to blow

415
00:21:51.539 --> 00:21:52.920
all this up and I'm going to make it.

416
00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:55.500
So the Daleks don't know who you are, which was going to be very

417
00:21:55.500 --> 00:21:57.000
interesting for the show going forward.

418
00:21:57.059 --> 00:22:01.019
I'm sure. that device works quite well.

419
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:05.279
Like the sci-fi device of why Clara is throughout the doctor's

420
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:07.140
history is actually quite neat.

421
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.180
It just lacks an emotional payoff.

422
00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:12.119
And so there's nothing for the viewer to hang on and sort of feel

423
00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:13.200
invested in, I don't think.

424
00:22:13.259 --> 00:22:16.680
I feel at the end of the season, like when she goes through all of

425
00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:17.339
his time stream.

426
00:22:17.460 --> 00:22:19.319
We don't see that enough during the season.

427
00:22:19.380 --> 00:22:22.619
Like, and that's what I would have liked more of a payoff, which

428
00:22:22.619 --> 00:22:26.460
is why I keep going back to having her appear as a different Clara

429
00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:30.480
a number of times, not just the ones that we've seen, like even in

430
00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.839
the same episode with modern day Clara, I think that would have

431
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:36.480
been interesting, like it could have been more than what it was.

432
00:22:36.539 --> 00:22:40.619
It's funny that he doesn't send Clara back to the Russell T. Davis

433
00:22:40.619 --> 00:22:43.920
here to rescue Eccleston or Tenant.

434
00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:45.240
Isn't that odd?

435
00:22:45.299 --> 00:22:46.380
It just occurred to me.

436
00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:49.319
It would have been so much easier to drop her into the place.

437
00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:50.400
That's right.

438
00:22:54.960 --> 00:23:00.660
On Todd's point, you know, one of the Russian sailors, he, you

439
00:23:00.660 --> 00:23:03.480
know, he's got a picture of his girlfriend in his wallet.

440
00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:05.400
That could have been Jenna Coleman.

441
00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:10.619
Out on the Rings of Akaten, when they leave, someone could have

442
00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:12.960
turned around in the market, it could have been Jenna Coleman with

443
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:16.380
pointy ears. trim me inside that glass pyramid.

444
00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:20.759
What makes you think she wasn't?

445
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:24.359
But no, that's, you know, that's very true, Brendan.

446
00:23:24.420 --> 00:23:27.660
Yeah, like little things like that would just add more depth and

447
00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:30.359
resonance to this art. and I think it would help.

448
00:23:30.420 --> 00:23:33.059
Must not make a joke about the artist.

449
00:23:33.539 --> 00:23:38.339
Do you remember in time of the doctor where Clara describes

450
00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:40.259
herself as a bossy control freak.

451
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:44.099
And I remember being shocked and it's kind of like, oh, so that's

452
00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:47.460
what we're going for with this character because there's no sign

453
00:23:47.460 --> 00:23:48.539
of that at all.

454
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:51.480
Only in Nightmare in Silver.

455
00:23:51.539 --> 00:23:53.099
She's a different character.

456
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:54.299
That's where she's bossy, right?

457
00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:54.660
Right.

458
00:23:54.660 --> 00:23:58.380
Then we've got Hyde and Cold War where the character doesn't have

459
00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:00.539
the same character either, right?

460
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.480
So there's all these different things happening.

461
00:24:03.539 --> 00:24:05.160
It's Jenna's performance that brings it all together.

462
00:24:05.220 --> 00:24:07.859
But nightmare in soap is the one thing where that's showing where

463
00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:08.519
it's going to go.

464
00:24:09.059 --> 00:24:12.119
Bob Gilby asks this question.

465
00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:15.180
Hey, is Clara is Clara's story done?

466
00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:17.160
Should she have ended her time with the name of the doctor?

467
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:22.500
No, I don't think so.

468
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:28.140
I mean, I think Clara stays for a bit longer than most of us would

469
00:24:28.140 --> 00:24:32.160
like, and I can understand why because I think Jenna's very good

470
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:34.680
and I think she's particularly good with Capaldi.

471
00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:39.240
So I can see why he doesn't kind of say no, dear, you know, you've

472
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:42.059
had your thing, don't come back after last Christmas.

473
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:43.380
Like, I can understand that.

474
00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:46.859
And Moffatt manages to keep the companions for longer than Davies

475
00:24:46.859 --> 00:24:47.460
managers.

476
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:52.619
So I'm happy that she goes on and I think that she gets quite a

477
00:24:52.619 --> 00:25:01.500
good story arc in series 8, except for one very crucial episode

478
00:25:01.619 --> 00:25:05.460
that kind of triangle between her and Capoldi and Danny and her

479
00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:09.660
having to kind of balance having a relationship with both of them

480
00:25:09.660 --> 00:25:11.160
in this sort of strange way.

481
00:25:11.220 --> 00:25:14.579
I think there's some real energy and interest to that.

482
00:25:14.700 --> 00:25:18.779
And so I think she is served well by series 8 and I would be sorry

483
00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:19.559
not to have her in.

484
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:23.880
I think Clara, as we know her, should have left at the end of name

485
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:26.819
of the doctor or time of the doctor, but faced with either

486
00:25:26.819 --> 00:25:30.119
bringing in a new character or doing something with Clara and sort

487
00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:33.299
of bringing her qualities like you were saying, Brendan, that she

488
00:25:33.299 --> 00:25:35.880
doesn't really have so far so the audience can imprint on her.

489
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:39.900
Faced with that, Stephen decides to tackle the character and I

490
00:25:39.900 --> 00:25:44.460
think turns her into a slightly different Clara next season, but a

491
00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:45.359
much better character.

492
00:25:45.420 --> 00:25:46.799
So no, she shouldn't have left.

493
00:25:46.859 --> 00:25:51.720
And she's got a crucial job in the 50th anniversary special as

494
00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:51.960
well.

495
00:25:52.019 --> 00:25:56.099
And that needs to be a character that we know who knows the

496
00:25:56.099 --> 00:25:56.519
doctor.

497
00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:03.240
And with David Dr. and I won't say much about this, but that's

498
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:06.839
when she really starts to me to feel like a fully fleshed out

499
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:07.259
character.

500
00:26:07.259 --> 00:26:10.380
And I'm thinking particularly of the scene where the doors

501
00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:13.319
unlocked, you could have got out any time.

502
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:15.180
And she just bursts into, they're like, how did you do that?

503
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:16.140
Doors unlocked.

504
00:26:16.619 --> 00:26:20.880
And also, like, you know, tenant flirting with her and she's just

505
00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:23.460
looking at him like, you're doing this now?

506
00:26:24.900 --> 00:26:27.000
No, I agree with you all.

507
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:30.119
I think that, yes, you should have stayed and I think the next

508
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:36.059
couple of episodes show why. and where that takes the character

509
00:26:36.059 --> 00:26:36.960
whether you like it or not.

510
00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:40.380
Yes, she probably did overstay her time, but I think having

511
00:26:40.380 --> 00:26:44.099
another year with her and certainly Matt's decision to leave, I

512
00:26:44.099 --> 00:26:47.880
think it's the right decision to keep Clara on and keep Gener on.

513
00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:50.160
Yeah, her time should not have ended at this point.

514
00:26:50.220 --> 00:26:53.700
The thing that Moffatt does at the beginning of his run, which is

515
00:26:53.700 --> 00:26:58.140
start the show with no characters that we have even met before.

516
00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:01.380
We've got a new doctor and new companions and new everything.

517
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:06.660
That's something that should only be attempted, I think, in very

518
00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:12.720
special circumstances, and Moffatt absolutely nails it in the 11th

519
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:13.140
hour.

520
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:17.220
But if you can have some people to ease the transition, you

521
00:27:17.220 --> 00:27:17.579
should.

522
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:20.519
And so she does need to be there for the regeneration, I think.

523
00:27:20.579 --> 00:27:25.259
That's why it makes Clara and Rose quite special characters in the

524
00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:29.339
Doctor Who Canon because you're an important companion if you're

525
00:27:29.339 --> 00:27:32.880
there to witness a regeneration and deal with the new doctor and

526
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:33.779
they both get that function.

527
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:35.579
Or you're Perry.

528
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:37.319
Perry, absolutely.

529
00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:39.000
Ben and Polly.

530
00:27:39.059 --> 00:27:39.779
Yeah.

531
00:27:39.779 --> 00:27:44.099
I mean, look, don't forget that Nicola Bryant wrote like a 7 page

532
00:27:44.099 --> 00:27:46.799
backstory for Perry and why she's travelling with the doctor

533
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:50.579
because her deceased father looks like Peter Davison and then

534
00:27:50.579 --> 00:27:52.140
JNT's like, oh, that's wonderful.

535
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:54.839
By the way, Peter's leaving.

536
00:27:54.900 --> 00:27:57.240
So your father's getting a face leave.

537
00:27:57.299 --> 00:27:58.440
Your mom's getting a face.

538
00:27:58.500 --> 00:28:01.200
And the great thing about Nicola, is she then pivots and goes, well

539
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.019
right, then the reason Perry stays is because the doctor saved her

540
00:28:04.019 --> 00:28:06.180
life and she needs to return the favour and that's going to work

541
00:28:06.180 --> 00:28:10.019
out so... much like Clara.

542
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:10.619
Anyway.

543
00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:13.019
Talking of companions leaving.

544
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:16.619
Another listener question from our good friend Eric Stadnick.

545
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:21.180
In my head, Cannon, Rivers' book tells a false story about Amy and

546
00:28:21.180 --> 00:28:21.539
Rory.

547
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:25.440
In my reality, the ponds end up having a miserable existence in

548
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:29.160
the past, and river lies to the doctor, happy.

549
00:28:29.220 --> 00:28:30.839
It's called marriage, et cetera.

550
00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:34.500
I just find the ending to pat otherwise, thoughts.

551
00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:38.039
I'm just thinking I can imagine that in Eric's voice.

552
00:28:38.099 --> 00:28:43.259
That's I can just imagine that I can hear the disdain in your

553
00:28:43.259 --> 00:28:44.039
voice, Eric.

554
00:28:44.099 --> 00:28:50.579
That's fantastic I think that I, look, I said this so many times

555
00:28:50.579 --> 00:28:51.059
before.

556
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:54.660
I really just wanted them to age out and I wanted the relationship

557
00:28:54.660 --> 00:28:59.759
to end the way that the relationship with Martha ended and I would

558
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:00.420
have liked that.

559
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:04.559
I think it would have worked thematically with the idea that, you

560
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:08.279
know, the 1st series is about Amy's marriage.

561
00:29:08.339 --> 00:29:11.819
The 2nd series is about parenthood and growing up and the 3rd

562
00:29:11.819 --> 00:29:14.460
series is more about just growing up in ordinary life.

563
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.519
So I would have liked that better.

564
00:29:17.579 --> 00:29:22.140
I can see that they do something more heartbreaking than that

565
00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:26.099
because it's TV drama, you know, bad things happen to people.

566
00:29:26.339 --> 00:29:31.440
I am still ambiguous about the ending, but if anything, I want it

567
00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:35.220
to be better than what we get rather than worse.

568
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:38.880
So I'm still worried that they don't have access to Wi-Fi or

569
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:42.240
probably indoor plumbing or God knows what.

570
00:29:42.299 --> 00:29:43.440
To live through the depression.

571
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:45.599
Garlics in Manhattan.

572
00:29:46.380 --> 00:29:48.720
That'd be quite fun, though.

573
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:51.359
Having a microwave oven for so many years.

574
00:29:51.420 --> 00:29:52.319
Grief.

575
00:29:52.380 --> 00:29:53.220
What would I do without it?

576
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:53.460
it?

577
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:56.759
Brendan, didn't you have a different sequence of episodes for

578
00:29:56.759 --> 00:29:58.259
series 7 A at some point?

579
00:29:58.319 --> 00:29:59.279
Yeah, yeah.

580
00:29:59.339 --> 00:30:04.920
I thought to myself that I would personally start series 7, A, with

581
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:06.299
dinosaurs on a spaceship.

582
00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:09.240
And so, you know, you still get the landing around them and Brian

583
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:12.000
comes along and what have you, but the doctor can tell throughout

584
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:16.259
that something's up with Amy and Rory what's going on, right?

585
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:20.759
And at the end, Lancetardis back, drops Brian out and says, you

586
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:22.019
two, over here now, what's going on?

587
00:30:22.019 --> 00:30:24.900
And they tell him, you know, we're going to get a separation.

588
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:27.539
He's like, absolutely not, takes off again and you have a town

589
00:30:27.539 --> 00:30:28.440
called Mercy.

590
00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:30.720
And so he's kidnapped them.

591
00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:32.759
They're Ian and Barbara for a few episodes.

592
00:30:32.819 --> 00:30:36.000
Then you have Asylum of the Daleks, because I always felt the

593
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:39.480
problem with Asylum of the Daleks, is you had no buildup to the

594
00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:41.880
separation and the tension and what have you, and it was all

595
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:43.259
resolved in one episode.

596
00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:47.880
Then, celebration, you know, let's go to New York for your 2nd

597
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:48.480
honeymoon.

598
00:30:48.539 --> 00:30:49.980
Angels in Manhattan.

599
00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:54.599
They almost get separated the way that happens at the end and the

600
00:30:54.599 --> 00:30:56.099
doctor's like, well, this is terrible.

601
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:58.980
I'm taking you home, takes them home and you have the power of

602
00:30:58.980 --> 00:30:59.339
three.

603
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:00.539
They've been away for a year.

604
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:02.519
All these cubes have appeared, blah, blah, blah.

605
00:31:02.579 --> 00:31:06.359
And at the end of that, when you have the discussion and Brian

606
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:08.160
says, no, no, no, they can go with you if they want.

607
00:31:08.220 --> 00:31:11.460
Amy and Rory then say, actually, doctor, like you say, Nathan

608
00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:12.480
maybe...

609
00:31:12.539 --> 00:31:15.599
Yeah, make it a proper mature choice because, you know, it is a

610
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:19.380
mature choice and it is absolutely beautiful that Amy chooses to

611
00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:20.460
be with Rory.

612
00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:25.980
But to make it that exclusionary, for me, cheapens the choice.

613
00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:29.640
Because the choice to say, doctor, we know you can come back at

614
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:34.200
any time, but please don't, is a more mature choice and it's more

615
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:37.740
heartbreaking, but I suppose it's more heartbreaking from an adult

616
00:31:37.740 --> 00:31:41.940
perspective and the children at home, and we need to remember

617
00:31:41.940 --> 00:31:45.839
Doctor Who is a show that needs to be understandable by 5 to 12

618
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:50.099
year olds as well as by people who were 5 to 12 year olds when

619
00:31:50.099 --> 00:31:51.059
Sylvester McCoy was on.

620
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:54.900
For the children, they need it to be, no, this is definite.

621
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:56.579
This is final rather than just cerebral.

622
00:31:56.640 --> 00:31:58.259
So I understand the way they did it that way.

623
00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:02.400
But when I put those in that order, I feel more satisfied.

624
00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:07.920
I think in Doctor Who, the thing is, though, the problem with what

625
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:12.119
I wanted to happen with what you wanted to happen is the decision

626
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:14.460
to say, actually, Doctor, don't come back.

627
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:16.079
That's terrible.

628
00:32:16.140 --> 00:32:17.759
Who's going to do that?

629
00:32:17.819 --> 00:32:19.619
It's the wrong decision.

630
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:22.079
It's always the wrong decision because travelling with the doctor

631
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:22.680
is great.

632
00:32:22.740 --> 00:32:25.680
And that's what we want to do forever.

633
00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:28.440
And so they lose our sympathy a bit, don't they?

634
00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:28.980
Yeah.

635
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:32.279
But it's also a problem that the series almost goes there twice

636
00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:33.480
and does it very well.

637
00:32:33.539 --> 00:32:36.420
It doesn't, the God complex, and then it does it in the power of

638
00:32:36.420 --> 00:32:38.519
three, and both times it feels right.

639
00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:42.480
So then to come back a 3rd time and have a space reason. that they

640
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:44.579
can't travel with, the doctor feels like a bit of a cheese.

641
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:48.000
It is a space reason, but it is also a definite decision and it's

642
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:51.420
a different decision than we see Amy make at the very beginning

643
00:32:51.420 --> 00:32:53.579
which is Rory, not the doctor.

644
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:56.940
And even though that's a foregone conclusion from Amy's choice

645
00:32:56.940 --> 00:32:57.420
onward.

646
00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:00.720
I can see why that's how we end that relationship.

647
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:04.619
And, you know, it's the saying that love and commitment is a

648
00:33:04.619 --> 00:33:05.640
decision you make every day.

649
00:33:05.819 --> 00:33:10.500
So it is okay to have Amy reiterate that that is her choice.

650
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:16.980
And I'm a lot less angry about series 7 A now than I was 10 years

651
00:33:16.980 --> 00:33:17.759
ago when it was on.

652
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:21.779
And angry is perhaps too strong a word, but I sat there after the

653
00:33:21.779 --> 00:33:24.960
5 episodes and I just went, but, but, but, there's ferries.

654
00:33:25.380 --> 00:33:29.640
Is it not a headspin to think that asylum of the Daleks is as

655
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:32.460
distant now as the horns of Nymon was from survival.

656
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:33.720
Oh my god.

657
00:33:33.779 --> 00:33:36.900
Thank you for that little bit of...

658
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:37.980
I now feel really ancient.

659
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:40.859
Really ancient, qualitatively as well.

660
00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:44.519
I like all that you're saying, you know?

661
00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:45.960
I think in the new series.

662
00:33:46.019 --> 00:33:50.640
It's very hard to have that choice to walk away from the doctor in

663
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:53.579
modern television and everybody's going to travel with a doctor

664
00:33:53.579 --> 00:33:58.799
forever and like you, Brendan, I was not happy the 1st time

665
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:00.720
through with those choices.

666
00:34:00.779 --> 00:34:02.220
I like your order of things.

667
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:05.039
A lot, but I could totally understand why they've gone for that

668
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:06.779
and there has to be a definite out.

669
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:07.140
Yeah.

670
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:09.059
It's a problem with the show, isn't it?

671
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:11.760
Once the doctor regains control of the Tartars, there's no reason

672
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:15.360
why companions should ever leave at all or why they should never

673
00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:16.079
see him again.

674
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:20.159
And we have to make up reasons like, you know, David Tennant's

675
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:21.179
doctors a bit horrible.

676
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:24.119
So he just never went back to see anyone or whatever.

677
00:34:24.420 --> 00:34:28.380
The other side of that is I notice on like Doctor Who Facebook

678
00:34:28.380 --> 00:34:30.719
groups and whatnot, people who came to Doctor Who with the new

679
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:33.480
series discovering the old series and watching things like the

680
00:34:33.480 --> 00:34:36.420
chase and going, hold on, why do they need to take another ship?

681
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:37.860
Why can't the doctor just take them home?

682
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:42.300
I was like, because controlling the Tatars is a new thing.

683
00:34:42.539 --> 00:34:48.719
And yeah, really, the doctor really properly gains control of the

684
00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:49.800
time is in the 80s.

685
00:34:49.860 --> 00:34:51.239
Yeah, yeah.

686
00:34:51.300 --> 00:34:54.539
And so when Davison's companions leave, it's a definitive, no, no

687
00:34:54.539 --> 00:34:58.679
no, this is my choice and I'm going, when Perry leaves, it's no

688
00:34:58.679 --> 00:34:59.280
one's choice.

689
00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:02.760
When Mel leaves, it's contract roulette.

690
00:35:02.820 --> 00:35:07.320
And the plan for Ace leaving was going to be a mutual choice

691
00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:08.340
between her and the doctor.

692
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:11.820
You know, each time, yeah, it has to be a choice rather than just

693
00:35:11.820 --> 00:35:14.820
the sort of 60s and 70s companions where it's like, well, this is

694
00:35:14.820 --> 00:35:15.900
the best I'm going to get.

695
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:17.639
It's the new console, isn't it?

696
00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:18.900
It's the 5 doctors console.

697
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:19.920
Suddenly, the Tartis works.

698
00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:21.000
Yeah, yeah.

699
00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:24.239
It's funny to think like the 1st time he actually intentionally

700
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:27.000
tries to go anywhere is the moon base.

701
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:29.400
Okay, that's the first, and he fails.

702
00:35:29.460 --> 00:35:31.019
He's trying to go to Mars, isn't he?

703
00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:31.800
Yeah, yeah.

704
00:35:41.699 --> 00:35:44.760
Well, I think it's time for a smoke marrying void.

705
00:35:44.820 --> 00:35:48.300
So, um, here's one for you, Brendan.

706
00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:50.460
Stock Mary avoid.

707
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:51.119
Isaac?

708
00:35:51.179 --> 00:35:52.800
That's Ben Browder.

709
00:35:52.860 --> 00:35:53.460
Okay.

710
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:55.619
John Riddell, Rupert Graves.

711
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:56.039
Oh, yeah.

712
00:35:56.039 --> 00:35:58.320
Oh, Professor Alec Palmer, Doug Ray Scott.

713
00:35:58.619 --> 00:36:00.059
Right.

714
00:36:00.179 --> 00:36:04.380
He gets the 3 most handsome men in the entire series.

715
00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:05.099
Why is that?

716
00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:06.900
Am I going to be snogging a...

717
00:36:06.900 --> 00:36:09.659
I can tell you now, darling. mutant or something?

718
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:13.079
You're going to be snogging Mr. Sweet.

719
00:36:13.139 --> 00:36:14.219
I can guarantee it.

720
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:15.900
You've got Doreen.

721
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:22.679
Okay, so that was Riddell, Isaac and Dugray Scott.

722
00:36:22.739 --> 00:36:23.699
Alec Palmer.

723
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:26.880
Ah, right, I am going to marry Ben Browder.

724
00:36:26.940 --> 00:36:28.260
I'm going to marry Isaac.

725
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:30.659
Because Ben Brown is hilarious.

726
00:36:30.659 --> 00:36:31.739
And hot.

727
00:36:31.739 --> 00:36:32.340
And hot.

728
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:34.980
I'm definitely going to snog do Grace Scott, though.

729
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:36.780
He's been on the side.

730
00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:38.880
He was going to be Wolverine before Hugh Jackman.

731
00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:40.980
But he chose to do Mission Impossible 2 instead.

732
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:41.519
How did that work?

733
00:36:41.579 --> 00:36:43.019
Because he chose to do hide.

734
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:47.099
Batgirl.

735
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:53.639
Which means I'm somewhat reluctantly avoiding Rupert Graves.

736
00:36:53.699 --> 00:36:58.500
You know, it's not, it's not a kind of, I hate him.

737
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:00.119
It's just there has to be a 3rd place.

738
00:37:00.179 --> 00:37:01.380
He's a bit sexist.

739
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:06.059
And yeah, he is a bit sexist and also, I don't do well in warm

740
00:37:06.059 --> 00:37:07.260
weather.

741
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:10.739
So, you know, at least, at least with Isaac in Mercy.

742
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:11.579
It's a dry heat.

743
00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:12.239
Yeah.

744
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:13.500
So I should be okay.

745
00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:14.099
So there you go.

746
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:16.619
I thought Rupert Gray would have made a great doctor back in the

747
00:37:16.619 --> 00:37:16.800
day.

748
00:37:16.860 --> 00:37:19.139
Yeah, I really, really like him.

749
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:21.480
Yeah, he's really charming, isn't he?

750
00:37:21.539 --> 00:37:22.860
Totally.

751
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:25.440
So on that point, Snog Mario, void Nathan.

752
00:37:25.500 --> 00:37:28.860
Queen Nefatiti, Emma Greyling, or Ms. Kislet.

753
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:30.539
Oh, you've got a good selection.

754
00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:32.280
Oh, I would marry Miss Kisler.

755
00:37:32.460 --> 00:37:34.619
Like, she's fabulous.

756
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:37.559
That's Celia Imory and her son is in Star Trek.

757
00:37:37.619 --> 00:37:38.880
Oh, so she's got a badge.

758
00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:41.400
I could fan girl.

759
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:44.340
Look, like Celia Imory is in Star Wars.

760
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:47.699
Her son is a regular on Star Trek prodigy.

761
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:51.719
I would just be fangirly 24 hours a day, so I am absolutely

762
00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:53.519
marrying Miss Kisler.

763
00:37:53.579 --> 00:38:00.480
Um, I'm going to snog uh, Emma Greyling because I think she's

764
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:03.300
really, I think she's fabulous.

765
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:06.360
I think she's actually the best thing about that episode and she

766
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:10.019
is, of course, tremendous in an adventure in Spain and time.

767
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:12.000
So, quick snog for her.

768
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:15.659
And I'll avoid Nefertiti because, you know, modern television

769
00:38:15.659 --> 00:38:19.500
aside, I don't know, I'm not convinced that oral hygiene was all

770
00:38:19.500 --> 00:38:21.300
that great 2000 years ago.

771
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:23.519
Yeah, hope a teeth don't let her down.

772
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:26.940
Speaking of which, Peter, Snog, marry and void.

773
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:29.880
Grandfather, the crooked man, or a time zombie.

774
00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:35.159
It's not grandfather.

775
00:38:35.219 --> 00:38:37.260
Just because it would be a new experience for me.

776
00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:42.659
I would avoid the time zombies because, I mean, they are quite hot

777
00:38:42.659 --> 00:38:45.000
but I would avoid them.

778
00:38:45.059 --> 00:38:46.139
And who was the other one?

779
00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:47.880
The crooked man.

780
00:38:47.940 --> 00:38:50.159
Oh, definitely marry the crooked man because, you know, you

781
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:51.239
wouldn't have to lie straight in bed.

782
00:38:52.139 --> 00:38:55.440
I was going to put in Mr. Sweet, but you spoiled.

783
00:38:55.500 --> 00:38:58.260
You know me too well, you know, not too well.

784
00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:02.699
One of the things I found really interesting is how much of a

785
00:39:02.699 --> 00:39:06.719
reboot goes on in the Christmas episode.

786
00:39:06.780 --> 00:39:08.400
We've got the doctor with a new costume.

787
00:39:08.460 --> 00:39:14.099
We've got a brand new credit sequence and we've got a brand new

788
00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:15.300
console room.

789
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:18.840
And I think it's, you know, if you're going to do it, you're going

790
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:21.420
to do it, then set things up for the following year, you've got a

791
00:39:21.420 --> 00:39:23.400
big audience, you can introduce all of those things.

792
00:39:23.460 --> 00:39:27.119
But also looking at this season, the monsters from the past.

793
00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:30.599
Like, I just went through, and I just, and like, we've got Daleks

794
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:34.800
and Cybermen, and Ice Warriors, and the Great Intelligence, and

795
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:37.199
we've got Osontarin in there as well.

796
00:39:37.260 --> 00:39:41.820
It's just interesting to see, I think, how much is sort of leading

797
00:39:41.820 --> 00:39:42.780
up to the 50th.

798
00:39:42.900 --> 00:39:46.500
It could go back to what we were saying earlier about whether this

799
00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:49.139
is one season or actually 2 very distinct seasons.

800
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:50.340
There's an aesthetic thing there.

801
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:54.719
And so that's why 7B feels quite different from 7A. Yeah, yeah.

802
00:39:54.780 --> 00:39:58.980
I think the great intelligence, you know, we talked about how

803
00:39:58.980 --> 00:40:04.380
Russell introduces the doctor's big enemies in order, and so we

804
00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:08.280
get the Daleks, then the Cyberman, then the master, and then we

805
00:40:08.280 --> 00:40:12.119
get, what, Davros and maybe the Santar and Tereleptals.

806
00:40:12.179 --> 00:40:14.639
It's like the first, second, 3rd and 4th doctors.

807
00:40:14.699 --> 00:40:15.420
Yeah.

808
00:40:15.420 --> 00:40:20.340
We've just had the big discovery of the web of fear.

809
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:24.179
And so the great intelligence who is not a very interesting

810
00:40:24.179 --> 00:40:27.659
villain, I think, in the 60s.

811
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:33.300
Like Moffatt makes him interesting and gives us someone to play

812
00:40:33.300 --> 00:40:35.039
him who's just terrific at it.

813
00:40:35.099 --> 00:40:38.460
And also the yeti never really worked.

814
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:41.099
I mean, you know, the 2 stories are good, but the yeti are funny.

815
00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:42.300
They're not very scary.

816
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:45.780
And so I think slightly transforming them into the snowmen works

817
00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:47.039
look more malevolent.

818
00:40:47.099 --> 00:40:49.139
They're spectacular, aren't they?

819
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:51.059
Because they are funny. cartoon villains.

820
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:51.599
Yeah.

821
00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:58.619
I think where the great intelligence sort of falls down a bit for

822
00:40:58.619 --> 00:41:01.500
me because I love the abominable snowmen.

823
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:04.800
And part of what makes that work is that Panba Sambivar is an old

824
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:05.579
friend of the doctor.

825
00:41:05.579 --> 00:41:11.099
And something we're critical of in a story like Meglos, is you

826
00:41:11.099 --> 00:41:14.039
have Zaster, who's an old friend of the doctor and does it in the

827
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:16.920
sort of way they do in monkey, like, oh, yes, hello, old friend

828
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:17.940
kind of thing.

829
00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:22.619
Whereas the scenes with the doctor and Pavma Sambova in Abominable

830
00:41:22.619 --> 00:41:23.159
Smamen.

831
00:41:23.219 --> 00:41:25.980
You do get this sense of regret and what have you.

832
00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:31.619
Um, Simeon isn't really a character before he gets taken over.

833
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:32.519
He's like a kid.

834
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:36.659
And so there's, there's no kind of emotional connection there for

835
00:41:36.659 --> 00:41:36.900
me.

836
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:40.980
Like, even in the web of fear when you discover spoiler alert

837
00:41:40.980 --> 00:41:42.900
folks, for a story from 1968.

838
00:41:43.139 --> 00:41:46.920
Even when you discover that Staff Sergeant Arnold is the vessel

839
00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:48.059
for the great intelligence.

840
00:41:48.119 --> 00:41:51.539
He's been like the funny staff sergeant and, you know, a bit

841
00:41:51.539 --> 00:41:55.260
loveably gruff and like William Hartnall in all of his army

842
00:41:55.260 --> 00:41:55.619
roles.

843
00:41:55.679 --> 00:41:58.860
So that has weight as well, because we're led to believe it's

844
00:41:58.860 --> 00:42:02.460
going to be Harold Chorley, and we all hate Harold Chorley, who's

845
00:42:02.460 --> 00:42:04.019
you know, just a bit of a dick.

846
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:06.960
And so, you know, you're like, yeah, yeah, well, he's going to get

847
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:08.639
his comeuppance and then you find out it's a character you

848
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:09.059
actually like.

849
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:13.380
And I think it's something we discussed last week in that there's

850
00:42:13.380 --> 00:42:15.659
been some accusation that Richard E. Grant is phoning his

851
00:42:15.659 --> 00:42:18.119
performance in, but it's like, even when Richard E. Grant is

852
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:20.579
phoning a performance in, He's Richard E. Grant.

853
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:22.260
And he said, incredibly entertaining.

854
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:23.820
Does he never not phone a performer?

855
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:27.599
That's the thing.

856
00:42:27.659 --> 00:42:30.599
Like, we've talked about how Clara as a character is undeveloped.

857
00:42:30.659 --> 00:42:34.679
The great intelligence as a character is undeveloped, and I'm

858
00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:38.159
actually going to disagree with Peter a bit here about the yeti in

859
00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:40.800
that I watched this season back and I'm like, they've got the

860
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:43.739
great intelligence and the yeti, and they bring back the less

861
00:42:43.739 --> 00:42:44.460
interesting one.

862
00:42:44.940 --> 00:42:48.000
But then again, with the yeti.

863
00:42:48.059 --> 00:42:50.880
If you look back at something like downtime in the 90s, which for

864
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:54.239
those of you who don't know was an officially licensed fan film

865
00:42:54.239 --> 00:42:58.320
using characters such as the Brigadier, Sarah Jane Smith, Victoria

866
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:02.579
and the Yeti, and has them wandering around a university campus.

867
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:04.079
Yeah, that doesn't work.

868
00:43:04.139 --> 00:43:06.780
So changing them into snowmen is absolutely the right thing to

869
00:43:06.780 --> 00:43:06.960
do.

870
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:09.119
They're very off their time, I think.

871
00:43:09.179 --> 00:43:10.260
They're very off their time.

872
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:13.440
But then, you know, you get the whispermen in the last episode.

873
00:43:13.500 --> 00:43:14.760
It's like, what are the whispermen?

874
00:43:14.820 --> 00:43:16.980
Well, they can rip off their face and turn into Richard E. Grant.

875
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:17.639
Okay, but what are they?

876
00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:20.639
They can rip off their face and turn it.

877
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:25.500
So, yeah, it is nonetheless entertaining, but I was just thinking

878
00:43:25.500 --> 00:43:27.000
about the great intelligence last night.

879
00:43:27.059 --> 00:43:29.880
It's like there's no emotional connection there.

880
00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:31.800
Even in the bells of St.

881
00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:37.199
John, in one line of dialogue at the end, Celia Emory gives us an

882
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:39.480
emotional connection to that character once we realised what's

883
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:41.820
happened to her and that she was taken as a little girl and can't

884
00:43:41.820 --> 00:43:42.360
remember anything.

885
00:43:42.420 --> 00:43:49.019
And I think for me, what would have redressed that is if after, you

886
00:43:49.019 --> 00:43:51.239
know, Clara had jumped into the doctor's timeline and gotten rid

887
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:55.860
of the great intelligence, we cut back to the snowman and we see

888
00:43:55.860 --> 00:44:00.480
10-year-old Dr. Simeon, and he never hears a voice from the

889
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:00.780
fountain.

890
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:02.219
Oh yeah.

891
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:04.440
You know, so Clara hasn't just saved the doctor.

892
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:07.199
Save Simeon and saved Miss Kisler.

893
00:44:07.260 --> 00:44:07.500
Yeah.

894
00:44:07.500 --> 00:44:07.739
Yeah.

895
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:08.280
Yeah.

896
00:44:08.340 --> 00:44:12.900
And I think what sort of happens this year with Moffat is he is so

897
00:44:12.900 --> 00:44:17.940
busy that he's still producing perfectly entertaining television.

898
00:44:17.940 --> 00:44:21.900
And it's kind of that old saying of even bad Doctor Who is

899
00:44:21.900 --> 00:44:22.619
something we love.

900
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:25.139
And this isn't bad Doctor Who.

901
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:29.159
It's just Doctor Who that doesn't quite finish drawing the

902
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:29.519
shapes.

903
00:44:29.579 --> 00:44:31.739
You know, it's kind of like, here you go.

904
00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:33.840
Yep, that's a perfectly entertaining 45 minutes.

905
00:44:33.900 --> 00:44:35.460
Oh, but what about this character?

906
00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:38.280
Oh, um, died on the way back to their home planet.

907
00:44:38.340 --> 00:44:39.179
You know, it's fine.

908
00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:41.940
It might be the problem with series 7 B in a nutshell.

909
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:45.659
None of it's particularly bad. but some of it is quite tedious.

910
00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:48.000
I think some of it is particularly bad.

911
00:44:48.059 --> 00:44:49.320
I think 2 of them are.

912
00:44:49.380 --> 00:44:51.900
I think 2 of them are and they're probably the same too.

913
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:55.800
I think nightmare in silver is terrible.

914
00:44:55.860 --> 00:44:57.960
And I don't think it's Neil Gaiman's fault.

915
00:44:58.019 --> 00:44:58.920
I think it's the director.

916
00:44:58.980 --> 00:45:04.380
It's just shockingly poorly directed in a way that Gaiman had no

917
00:45:04.380 --> 00:45:08.039
right to expect given who directed his previous episode.

918
00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:13.320
And I think that I just think Journey to the centre of the TARDIS

919
00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:18.840
is super boring and slightly inadvertently racist.

920
00:45:18.900 --> 00:45:20.099
That's why we said on podcast.

921
00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:22.860
It's a failure of imagination as well, taking something as

922
00:45:22.860 --> 00:45:25.199
wonderful and abstract as the TARDIS and just turning it into a

923
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:26.460
machine with corridors.

924
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:27.300
Yeah, yeah.

925
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:29.519
And Hyde is terribly boring.

926
00:45:29.579 --> 00:45:30.539
That's the problem.

927
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:31.739
It is so dull.

928
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:34.199
How can you take all of those elements and not make something

929
00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:34.920
interesting out of it?

930
00:45:34.980 --> 00:45:36.960
See, I find nightmare and silver boring.

931
00:45:37.019 --> 00:45:39.000
Like 10 minutes in, I just wanted to turn it off.

932
00:45:39.059 --> 00:45:41.639
Like, I thought, start and I thought, oh, this is going well and

933
00:45:41.639 --> 00:45:43.800
then suddenly I just lost complete interest and I was just over

934
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:43.920
it.

935
00:45:43.980 --> 00:45:48.539
Well, I just think it's overlit and badly directed and just not

936
00:45:48.539 --> 00:45:49.980
atmospheric at all.

937
00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:54.480
It relies on being about nightmares, you know, like childhood

938
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:58.320
fears and is not at all scary because everything's, you know, lit

939
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:01.079
to buggery and the whole thing is just kind of terrible.

940
00:46:01.139 --> 00:46:05.820
I just want to say something in defence of the actors playing Ang

941
00:46:05.820 --> 00:46:06.659
Giannati.

942
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:11.820
I watch them and I can recognisably see them as children, you know

943
00:46:11.820 --> 00:46:14.039
and auntie's whole soft-spoken thing.

944
00:46:14.099 --> 00:46:16.199
I think auntie's adorable, actually.

945
00:46:16.260 --> 00:46:16.980
Artie's adorable.

946
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:19.860
There were children in my family like that when my nieces and

947
00:46:19.860 --> 00:46:21.000
nephews were younger, you know.

948
00:46:21.059 --> 00:46:24.840
And Angie feels like she's straight out of the Sarah Jane

949
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:27.059
adventures and, you know, there's nothing wrong with that.

950
00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:33.000
And yet, I do not like those characters anywhere near as much as

951
00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:36.360
say, um, Caitlin Blackwood as young Amelia.

952
00:46:36.420 --> 00:46:41.519
Whereas I would say the amount that Angie and RT are given to do

953
00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:43.679
is more than Amelia is given to do.

954
00:46:43.739 --> 00:46:46.739
You know, they're tasked with delivering more emotions and more

955
00:46:46.739 --> 00:46:48.960
plot information, and I think they nail it.

956
00:46:49.019 --> 00:46:51.780
So I don't, I think, as you say, Nathan, it comes down to the

957
00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:54.960
direction, because I've heard those 2 lambasted quite a bit, and I

958
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:57.360
kind of watch them and I go, I don't think it's the actor's

959
00:46:57.360 --> 00:46:57.599
fault.

960
00:46:57.659 --> 00:47:02.820
You know, I think that Cyril and Lily are better served than Angie

961
00:47:02.820 --> 00:47:03.360
and Archie.

962
00:47:03.420 --> 00:47:04.139
Yeah, yeah.

963
00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:06.360
I think they're both reasonably good.

964
00:47:06.420 --> 00:47:07.559
I think Artie's probably better.

965
00:47:07.619 --> 00:47:09.239
But I think they're fine.

966
00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:13.980
Everybody keeps looking, you know, because you know how much he

967
00:47:13.980 --> 00:47:16.079
hates children as a school teacher.

968
00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:17.219
As a school teacher.

969
00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:20.519
And as an officiato of the new who?

970
00:47:20.579 --> 00:47:25.260
I just really despise the small children in the show most of the

971
00:47:25.260 --> 00:47:25.500
time.

972
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:27.480
Look, I think they're adequate.

973
00:47:27.539 --> 00:47:32.400
I just think they're poorly written at times and certainly in that

974
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:33.599
nightmare and silver thing.

975
00:47:33.659 --> 00:47:35.519
There's no reason why Artie shouldn't have been completely taken

976
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:35.820
over.

977
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:36.719
Do you know what I mean?

978
00:47:36.780 --> 00:47:39.300
We're just traumatising the children at home.

979
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:42.539
No, but I'm just saying like we've just gone with a cybermite and

980
00:47:42.539 --> 00:47:45.719
it's just a little problem and that's convenient for the plot and

981
00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:47.219
it's like really, yeah.

982
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:51.599
Yeah, yeah, it's because it's not 1992 written by David A

983
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:52.139
McKinty.

984
00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:55.559
That's the only reason he's not hideously murdered kind of thing.

985
00:47:55.619 --> 00:47:58.980
I was just thinking, though, the whole bloody thing with Nightmare

986
00:47:58.980 --> 00:48:02.280
and Silver is, oh, you know, if you don't take us on a trip in

987
00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:05.519
space, we're going to tell dad that you were in 1899.

988
00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:07.079
I was like, what?

989
00:48:07.139 --> 00:48:08.039
That was quite funny.

990
00:48:08.099 --> 00:48:09.780
Yeah, I actually kind of like that.

991
00:48:10.739 --> 00:48:13.320
And what's dad going to do about it?

992
00:48:13.380 --> 00:48:17.460
Exactly, you know, and it's kind of like Kyro can just go, yeah

993
00:48:17.460 --> 00:48:18.300
that's my grandma.

994
00:48:19.139 --> 00:48:23.400
Look, there is a painting, a self-portrait in a gallery in

995
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:26.519
Barcelona that looks like me with a Santa Claus beard.

996
00:48:26.579 --> 00:48:27.539
Oh, I've seen that.

997
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:28.199
You posted it?

998
00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:29.519
I've posted that.

999
00:48:29.579 --> 00:48:31.260
I'll give it to Nathan to put in the show notes.

1000
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:36.179
And yeah, I don't think that this going was my ancestor.

1001
00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:39.360
I just think that, you know, you've got a certain amount of gasica

1002
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:42.420
in you and sometimes it comes out in roughly the same shape.

1003
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:46.980
Like for me, and the other thing with nightmare in silver is the

1004
00:48:46.980 --> 00:48:50.460
doctor agrees to take children anywhere in the TARDIS?

1005
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:52.079
Has he seen the show?

1006
00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:59.400
But I mean, the thing is, though, that the idea of Doctor Who is

1007
00:48:59.400 --> 00:49:03.719
that idea of, you know, Victorian children's literature of being

1008
00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:05.940
transported to a magical place.

1009
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:09.840
And so taking children to visit something in the TARDIS is

1010
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:11.219
absolutely what it should be doing.

1011
00:49:11.219 --> 00:49:16.860
And the hilarious thing about the children blackmailing Clara.

1012
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:20.880
I just think that's a really fun and novel way of getting them on

1013
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:21.119
board.

1014
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:23.340
They're just a modern day John and John.

1015
00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:27.960
Whatever happened to John and Gillian.

1016
00:49:28.019 --> 00:49:32.519
They, um, they got rapid soap opera ageing thing and then he

1017
00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:35.400
leaves them at the University of Zebedee.

1018
00:49:35.460 --> 00:49:37.440
Should have been a case of the space syphilis.

1019
00:49:41.159 --> 00:49:46.320
Speaking of things which have a mysteriously poor reputation, in

1020
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:48.239
all those episodes we're talking about, which didn't like this

1021
00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:51.420
season, we didn't mention the Rings of Akatan, I'm a bit mystified

1022
00:49:51.420 --> 00:49:55.320
by how much that episode is loathed because although it's not good

1023
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:58.320
it's kind of charming, but it's not the worst episode this

1024
00:49:58.320 --> 00:49:58.619
season.

1025
00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:02.940
Yeah, it's thought of as being one of the worst episodes of all

1026
00:50:02.940 --> 00:50:03.119
time.

1027
00:50:03.179 --> 00:50:06.480
I don't even think it's the worst episode by that writer this

1028
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:06.900
season.

1029
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:07.440
Yeah.

1030
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:10.139
When we were discussing it.

1031
00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:13.500
I made the point that I really loathed it at the time, the whole

1032
00:50:13.500 --> 00:50:15.599
singing thing and the child and everything like that.

1033
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:18.539
And I really, and when I came back to it, I found so much more in

1034
00:50:18.539 --> 00:50:21.900
there that was related to perhaps Clara and the ongoing plot, which

1035
00:50:21.900 --> 00:50:25.320
we liked, but we did sort of say the resolution had its problems.

1036
00:50:25.380 --> 00:50:27.239
And yeah, I'm with you.

1037
00:50:27.300 --> 00:50:29.940
Like, I think people do need to revisit that episode.

1038
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:31.559
I think it's actually a good episode.

1039
00:50:31.619 --> 00:50:32.760
I think it's actually quite solid.

1040
00:50:33.059 --> 00:50:36.900
So, you know, since we're talking about that, in terms of this

1041
00:50:36.900 --> 00:50:38.039
whole series.

1042
00:50:38.099 --> 00:50:42.000
What are the episodes for you that are potentially your favourite

1043
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:44.400
or best and what is the worst?

1044
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:46.679
It's got to be a town called Mercia.

1045
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:48.300
It's got to be the best episode.

1046
00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:49.980
And, you know, that might be a problem.

1047
00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:52.559
That's what we're identifying with the whole series because it's

1048
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:53.639
not one of the big episodes.

1049
00:50:53.699 --> 00:50:55.619
It's not one of the arc episodes.

1050
00:50:55.679 --> 00:50:57.599
It's not an important episode for the show.

1051
00:50:57.659 --> 00:50:59.639
It's just a really good standalone episode.

1052
00:50:59.699 --> 00:51:03.119
Yeah, yeah, I would say that would be the best of the series for

1053
00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:03.420
sure.

1054
00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:06.840
And I think probably the worst.

1055
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:11.519
Like, I think Hyde is boring and doesn't go anywhere.

1056
00:51:11.579 --> 00:51:16.800
I think maybe nightmare in silver is the worst.

1057
00:51:16.860 --> 00:51:18.599
It's certainly the worst executed.

1058
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:19.679
Absolutely.

1059
00:51:19.679 --> 00:51:23.940
It's the worst, you know, it's a reasonable script and possibly a

1060
00:51:23.940 --> 00:51:27.840
good script that's just completely butchered by poor production.

1061
00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:29.699
Brendan?

1062
00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:34.739
Um, My my favourite, I want to give an honourable mention to the

1063
00:51:34.739 --> 00:51:35.400
power of three.

1064
00:51:35.460 --> 00:51:36.300
Yeah, it's good.

1065
00:51:36.360 --> 00:51:40.380
Which, you know, if we were just going on scripts, that would

1066
00:51:40.380 --> 00:51:44.039
probably be my favourite, but given that Diana Rigg is in the

1067
00:51:44.039 --> 00:51:48.659
Crimson Horror, and Rachel Sterling, that pips it, and that

1068
00:51:48.659 --> 00:51:51.239
becomes my favourite, Matt Smith.

1069
00:51:51.300 --> 00:51:54.119
And, you know, one of the most criticised...

1070
00:51:54.179 --> 00:51:55.199
It's my favourite Matt Smith episode.

1071
00:51:55.260 --> 00:51:56.219
It's really great.

1072
00:51:56.760 --> 00:52:00.239
And, you know, one of the most criticised moments in that is, you

1073
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:02.340
know, when the doctor kisses Jenny and what have you.

1074
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:06.000
And I have to say, in the novelisation, Mark Gatis addresses that

1075
00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:07.980
because the novelisation is narrated by Jenny.

1076
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:09.119
Oh wow.

1077
00:52:09.179 --> 00:52:12.480
Yeah, and pretty much the moment happens and Jenny's like, well

1078
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:14.340
you know, of course I like the doctor and he's my friend and

1079
00:52:14.340 --> 00:52:16.920
whatnot, but I needed to make it very clear to him that he can't

1080
00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:18.900
just go kissing people, especially not married women.

1081
00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:19.679
So I hit him.

1082
00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:23.820
And even watching that scene.

1083
00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:26.639
It's like, it happens, and he immediately gets struck across the

1084
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:28.440
face and says, sorry, I was a bit excited.

1085
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:34.320
So that's my favourite from this season, The Crimson Horror.

1086
00:52:34.380 --> 00:52:37.260
The bottom for me is Journey to the Centre of the Tartars.

1087
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:40.679
And again, it's between that and Nightmare and Silver, but

1088
00:52:40.679 --> 00:52:44.760
Nightmare and Silver has some genuinely funny moments.

1089
00:52:44.820 --> 00:52:47.280
It also has some funny moments you're not meant to be laughing

1090
00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:47.639
at.

1091
00:52:47.699 --> 00:52:48.960
Mr. Clever.

1092
00:52:49.019 --> 00:52:53.699
But the thing is, Jenna is really hilarious in some bits.

1093
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:58.079
Like, the script basically asks her to become a general and I get

1094
00:52:58.079 --> 00:52:59.940
the feeling that Jenna...

1095
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:00.360
Yeah.

1096
00:53:00.420 --> 00:53:03.119
I get the feeling that Jenna Coleman kind of also went, what?

1097
00:53:03.179 --> 00:53:03.900
Why am I?

1098
00:53:04.019 --> 00:53:04.260
Okay.

1099
00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:08.219
And so like she'll give an order and it'll be followed and she'll

1100
00:53:08.219 --> 00:53:11.340
just have this look of surprise on her face like, oh, okay, all

1101
00:53:11.340 --> 00:53:11.579
right.

1102
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:13.920
Cannons here.

1103
00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:17.760
And we're going to stand here by Mr. Winky's world of pleasure.

1104
00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:19.440
And da, da, da, da, da.

1105
00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:23.760
So, yeah, it's journey to the centre of the Tartars because it

1106
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:25.679
doesn't have any of those moments for me.

1107
00:53:25.739 --> 00:53:29.699
It has the wonderful scene with Dr. and Clary in the exploded

1108
00:53:29.699 --> 00:53:33.480
engine room, which is more of the abstract stuff I wanted to see

1109
00:53:33.480 --> 00:53:34.260
in this episode.

1110
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:36.900
Yeah, I wanted brick walls.

1111
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:38.159
I wanted the invasion of time.

1112
00:53:38.219 --> 00:53:40.500
I'm not joking Yeah, absolutely No, no, no.

1113
00:53:40.619 --> 00:53:44.219
And, you know, then wander from brick walls into a park and then

1114
00:53:44.219 --> 00:53:47.820
wander from a park into an underground station, you know. boot

1115
00:53:47.820 --> 00:53:48.360
cupboard.

1116
00:53:48.420 --> 00:53:48.780
Yeah.

1117
00:53:48.780 --> 00:53:51.480
I think, you know, if you'd asked me this question 2 or 3 years

1118
00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:54.420
ago, Asylum of the Daleks. probably would have been on the worst

1119
00:53:54.420 --> 00:53:57.960
list, but I've really softened on that, because one of my big

1120
00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:02.579
problems with it was what I felt was the unbelievability of Amy

1121
00:54:02.579 --> 00:54:06.179
and Rory split, and I expressed that online at Twitter at one and

1122
00:54:06.179 --> 00:54:10.619
some fans who are women got in touch via that and kind of

1123
00:54:10.619 --> 00:54:12.840
respectfully explain, well, actually, this is what infertility

1124
00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:15.300
feels like, and this is what makes you feel like.

1125
00:54:15.420 --> 00:54:18.360
And this woman wasn't having a go at me by any means, but she's

1126
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:20.639
just like, you know, you may not understand this perspective.

1127
00:54:20.699 --> 00:54:23.760
And so I have a new respect for that episode that I didn't have

1128
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:24.119
before.

1129
00:54:24.179 --> 00:54:26.940
It's interesting, interesting because like that's one of the

1130
00:54:26.940 --> 00:54:27.300
episodes.

1131
00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:30.059
I had a problem with originally, but I actually really quite...

1132
00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:30.840
I think it's good.

1133
00:54:30.900 --> 00:54:32.099
I think it's a really solid episode.

1134
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:33.539
I think it's one of the strongest.

1135
00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:34.679
It's the strongest.

1136
00:54:34.739 --> 00:54:38.519
A town called Mercy, I think, is up there for me and the Crimson

1137
00:54:38.519 --> 00:54:40.139
Horror, but my favourite is the snowman.

1138
00:54:40.199 --> 00:54:41.219
But those...

1139
00:54:41.219 --> 00:54:46.139
Oh, I forgot the snowman, but those 3 are my standouts of the

1140
00:54:46.139 --> 00:54:48.360
season, definitely the Stoneman is one of my most favourite things

1141
00:54:48.360 --> 00:54:48.780
ever.

1142
00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:53.940
Crimson horror, I just think, is stunning except for Jenna

1143
00:54:53.940 --> 00:54:58.380
Coleman's hair, which is just utterly awful, utterly, utterly

1144
00:54:58.380 --> 00:55:00.119
awful in that episode.

1145
00:55:00.179 --> 00:55:05.159
And the nightmare in silver is just woeful, but I have problems

1146
00:55:05.159 --> 00:55:07.380
with journey to the centre of the TARDIS, and I also have problems

1147
00:55:07.380 --> 00:55:09.780
with Cold War in terms of I just get bored by it.

1148
00:55:10.079 --> 00:55:13.500
We've been talking about, obviously, those episodes, but also

1149
00:55:13.500 --> 00:55:17.940
guest cast, of which you've, of course, mentioned Diana Rigg, who

1150
00:55:17.940 --> 00:55:18.659
was fantastic.

1151
00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:25.500
What other guest stars this season for you, you know, stand out?

1152
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:28.559
Stephen Burkoff, but I'm not sure that's exactly.

1153
00:55:28.619 --> 00:55:29.699
Wait, wait.

1154
00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:30.480
A compliment.

1155
00:55:30.539 --> 00:55:32.099
Wait, I've got a listener question.

1156
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:38.159
Nathan Botomley says, who is the worst guest star in the history

1157
00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:38.820
of the show?

1158
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:41.519
Sorry, in the history of the new series and why is it Stephen

1159
00:55:41.519 --> 00:55:42.119
Burkock?

1160
00:55:43.980 --> 00:55:48.780
He's the he's actual real-life villain, Stephen.

1161
00:55:50.099 --> 00:55:52.139
Jack Drew.

1162
00:55:52.380 --> 00:55:54.420
It's such a shame.

1163
00:55:54.480 --> 00:55:57.000
I mean, Chibl can't really pull off endings.

1164
00:55:57.059 --> 00:56:00.539
So I imagine that what we were going to get was only going to be

1165
00:56:00.539 --> 00:56:03.900
marginally better than what we did get, but what we did get was

1166
00:56:03.900 --> 00:56:04.380
very bad.

1167
00:56:04.500 --> 00:56:09.840
I just find it so astonishing that, you know, they couldn't have

1168
00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:15.000
popped down the old Vic and said, you know, who's appearing this

1169
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:15.360
week?

1170
00:56:15.420 --> 00:56:18.119
Patrick Stewart, do you want to come do 2 days on this?

1171
00:56:18.179 --> 00:56:21.420
I'm just astonished that they didn't just replace him, but they

1172
00:56:21.420 --> 00:56:23.460
must have just been so up against it.

1173
00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:26.940
And yet they would have had to have made at a time where Matt

1174
00:56:26.940 --> 00:56:31.860
Karen, Arthur, and Mark Williams were all available and what have

1175
00:56:31.860 --> 00:56:32.099
you.

1176
00:56:32.159 --> 00:56:35.880
But my God, for it to go that wrong and for them not to be able to

1177
00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:39.059
write them out is just extraordinary.

1178
00:56:39.179 --> 00:56:44.519
But even so, I didn't know anything was wrong until like 3 years

1179
00:56:44.519 --> 00:56:47.400
later when I read about it and it didn't feel like there was

1180
00:56:47.400 --> 00:56:47.940
anything wrong.

1181
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:49.920
Like, it felt kind of weird that he just disappeared.

1182
00:56:49.980 --> 00:56:52.739
But, you know, I'm used to Star Trek having ancient ships with

1183
00:56:52.739 --> 00:56:53.460
holograms.

1184
00:56:53.579 --> 00:56:56.099
I didn't feel like there was anything wrong per se.

1185
00:56:56.159 --> 00:56:58.320
I just thought it was poorly executed at the end and just rushed

1186
00:56:58.320 --> 00:56:59.579
like that's what I thought.

1187
00:56:59.639 --> 00:57:01.739
Like I didn't think there was a big saga behind it.

1188
00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:04.440
I just think giving everyone a heart attack was like a massively

1189
00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:05.639
bad idea.

1190
00:57:05.760 --> 00:57:09.300
And it's like for half an hour and then they stopped the signal

1191
00:57:09.300 --> 00:57:10.320
and everyone's fine.

1192
00:57:10.380 --> 00:57:11.699
That's right.

1193
00:57:11.699 --> 00:57:15.239
I think this season suffers a little bit in that it doesn't have a

1194
00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:17.820
lot of great performances. has a lot of good performances, but

1195
00:57:17.820 --> 00:57:18.960
nothing that really stands out.

1196
00:57:19.019 --> 00:57:22.320
So I would have to go for the only one that did for me, which

1197
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:23.340
Sager and Scarborough.

1198
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:24.300
Car checks.

1199
00:57:24.719 --> 00:57:25.679
He's my favourite as well.

1200
00:57:25.739 --> 00:57:29.579
I mean, diner rig is superb, but yeah, Adrian Scarborough is

1201
00:57:29.579 --> 00:57:31.739
amazingly good in that episode.

1202
00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:35.219
And on the other end, the spectrum, Tams and Althwheat in

1203
00:57:35.219 --> 00:57:36.179
Nightmare and Silver.

1204
00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:37.019
So casting gone wrong.

1205
00:57:37.079 --> 00:57:39.360
Yeah, yeah, it's another Michelle Collins.

1206
00:57:39.420 --> 00:57:40.739
Who is she?

1207
00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:41.639
Let's not go nuts.

1208
00:57:41.699 --> 00:57:43.019
Who is?

1209
00:57:43.079 --> 00:57:48.119
She's the blonde leader of the platoon.

1210
00:57:48.179 --> 00:57:50.219
Oh, you think she's that bad?

1211
00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:51.539
Okay.

1212
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:54.780
Well, she's not helped by the script, obviously.

1213
00:57:54.840 --> 00:57:56.039
But there's so many.

1214
00:57:56.340 --> 00:57:58.500
I just think, like, you've got Ben Browder, who I think is

1215
00:57:58.500 --> 00:57:59.039
fantastic.

1216
00:57:59.099 --> 00:58:01.500
We have a Graves, Doug Ray Scott.

1217
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:04.079
Mark Williams, as Brian, is just phenomenal.

1218
00:58:04.139 --> 00:58:07.440
Richard E. Grant, whatever you may think you've got Liam

1219
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:11.400
Cunningham as Captain Zukov or whatever it is in that episode

1220
00:58:11.400 --> 00:58:16.619
David Warner, Tobias Menzies, Diner Rig, obviously, and Rachel

1221
00:58:16.619 --> 00:58:18.960
Sterling, Miss Kislet.

1222
00:58:19.079 --> 00:58:23.940
I think you've got a lot of actually, and let's not forget David

1223
00:58:23.940 --> 00:58:25.260
Bradley as Solomon, right?

1224
00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:28.500
I think you've actually got quite a lot of big names throughout.

1225
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:29.519
Actually, the casting is good.

1226
00:58:29.579 --> 00:58:30.599
Maybe it's just the characters.

1227
00:58:31.619 --> 00:58:35.159
I mean, Cold War really is trying to kind of lift a boring script

1228
00:58:35.159 --> 00:58:37.320
by overcasting all of the roles.

1229
00:58:37.500 --> 00:58:40.440
And I remember I did say at the time, like coming back into it.

1230
00:58:40.500 --> 00:58:42.960
I felt like David Warner was underused, but watching the episode

1231
00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:46.500
is like, no, actually, like he's given some really good, sweet

1232
00:58:46.500 --> 00:58:50.280
character moments and having seen David Warner interviewed, he has

1233
00:58:50.280 --> 00:58:53.340
commented, you know, of course I love playing villains because I

1234
00:58:53.340 --> 00:58:56.820
love working, but he's like things that say, hey, come in and

1235
00:58:56.820 --> 00:58:57.599
don't be a villain.

1236
00:58:57.659 --> 00:58:59.519
Just be, you know, just be an ordinary person.

1237
00:58:59.579 --> 00:59:00.960
He's like, actually I quite like those.

1238
00:59:01.019 --> 00:59:05.039
One person I want to give a shout out to because I feel he

1239
00:59:05.039 --> 00:59:10.139
elevates a pretty poor script is Warwick Davies as the emperor in

1240
00:59:10.139 --> 00:59:11.099
Nightmare in Silver.

1241
00:59:11.159 --> 00:59:12.960
And I just love how he's always trying to give away the

1242
00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:14.519
emperorship to someone.

1243
00:59:14.579 --> 00:59:16.199
Like his last time in the episode.

1244
00:59:16.260 --> 00:59:17.039
Do you want to be emperor?

1245
00:59:17.099 --> 00:59:17.519
No, sir.

1246
00:59:17.579 --> 00:59:19.079
No, he's good.

1247
00:59:19.139 --> 00:59:21.239
And who's the other guy in that that's the...

1248
00:59:21.239 --> 00:59:22.440
Jason Watkins?

1249
00:59:22.500 --> 00:59:23.340
Jason Watkins?

1250
00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:26.219
He's also very good, but unfortunately, that whole script is

1251
00:59:26.219 --> 00:59:26.639
just...

1252
00:59:26.639 --> 00:59:27.840
Well, he's wasted by that.

1253
00:59:27.900 --> 00:59:30.239
I genuinely don't think it's a script though.

1254
00:59:30.300 --> 00:59:33.719
I think that the script could have been good if we'd got Richard

1255
00:59:33.719 --> 00:59:35.400
Clark back or someone competent.

1256
00:59:35.460 --> 00:59:36.480
And to do it.

1257
00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:40.019
I just don't like the Mr. Clever thing and having to do all of

1258
00:59:40.019 --> 00:59:40.199
that.

1259
00:59:40.260 --> 00:59:41.400
It just doesn't work for me.

1260
00:59:41.460 --> 00:59:44.880
But yeah, again, I think had he been directed rather than them

1261
00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:47.280
just saying, oh, he's the lead, let him do whatever he wants.

1262
00:59:47.400 --> 00:59:48.239
Yeah, yeah.

1263
00:59:48.300 --> 00:59:50.820
I think, you know, that would have improved that.

1264
00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:53.460
I have to have problems with any science fiction thing where

1265
00:59:53.460 --> 00:59:56.099
there's in someone's person's head and they have to do multiple

1266
00:59:56.099 --> 00:59:56.639
things.

1267
00:59:56.699 --> 00:59:58.860
I just really dislike it anything that I watch.

1268
00:59:58.920 --> 01:00:03.599
Wouldn't you love to see the offspring of Mr. Sweet and Mr. Clever

1269
01:00:04.679 --> 01:00:07.500
think I've seen something like that. maple fool.

1270
01:00:19.739 --> 01:00:22.500
Peter, I have to give you another dog, Mary.

1271
01:00:22.559 --> 01:00:25.199
I feel very, very poor about the first one.

1272
01:00:25.260 --> 01:00:28.079
Josh O'Connor, James Norton, or Charlie Anson.

1273
01:00:28.199 --> 01:00:29.940
Do you know who these characters are?

1274
01:00:30.059 --> 01:00:30.719
Please tell me.

1275
01:00:30.780 --> 01:00:34.800
There are 3 of the sailors on the ship in the submarine whose

1276
01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:36.179
names I cannot pronounce.

1277
01:00:36.599 --> 01:00:39.599
I've got them written here, but I just can't pronounce them, but

1278
01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:40.440
they all.

1279
01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:41.880
I think I know which 3 they are.

1280
01:00:41.940 --> 01:00:43.679
You don't have to answer.

1281
01:00:43.739 --> 01:00:44.940
No, no, no, no.

1282
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:47.940
I would snog and marry Josh Charles.

1283
01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:48.719
Is Josh Charles?

1284
01:00:48.780 --> 01:00:49.860
Josh O'Connor.

1285
01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:52.139
Josh O'Connor, who plays...

1286
01:00:52.139 --> 01:00:52.559
Charles.

1287
01:00:52.619 --> 01:00:55.500
Charles Charles in one of my favourite films, Dead Pelts.

1288
01:00:55.559 --> 01:00:58.380
Yeah, Josh O'Connor, who plays Prince Charles and is in Cold War.

1289
01:00:58.440 --> 01:00:59.760
I would snog and marry him.

1290
01:00:59.820 --> 01:01:03.119
And so therefore, because I'm that kind of guy, I would have to

1291
01:01:03.119 --> 01:01:03.780
avoid the others.

1292
01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:04.619
Yes.

1293
01:01:04.679 --> 01:01:06.599
I've got their Russian names here, but I just can't pronounce

1294
01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:07.260
them.

1295
01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:09.059
Sorry, listeners, it's just not going to happen.

1296
01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:13.380
Let's just talk about a few people that are very important in this

1297
01:01:13.380 --> 01:01:15.840
season. and your thoughts on them.

1298
01:01:15.900 --> 01:01:17.039
Karen Gillan.

1299
01:01:17.099 --> 01:01:18.179
Oh terrific.

1300
01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:19.980
Just tremendous. as good as ever.

1301
01:01:20.039 --> 01:01:20.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1302
01:01:20.940 --> 01:01:25.079
Her hair's fantastic and I have a complete new appreciation of her

1303
01:01:25.079 --> 01:01:25.380
talent.

1304
01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:29.400
Yeah, I think they give her more things to do, like the breakup

1305
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:32.219
and like the final departure and stuff.

1306
01:01:32.280 --> 01:01:34.260
I think she's extremely good.

1307
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:35.340
After Darvel?

1308
01:01:35.460 --> 01:01:39.480
as reliable as ever and get some really good moments of quiet

1309
01:01:39.480 --> 01:01:40.079
emotion.

1310
01:01:40.139 --> 01:01:45.059
And I also really like in a town called Mercy, their conflict when

1311
01:01:45.059 --> 01:01:46.679
you know, the doctor goes out to face the guns.

1312
01:01:46.679 --> 01:01:48.960
Amy wants to go with him and Rory's like, absolutely not.

1313
01:01:49.019 --> 01:01:52.199
Well, they're on different sides of the debate about what to do

1314
01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:53.699
about Carla James as well.

1315
01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:54.659
Yeah, yeah.

1316
01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:58.500
And I like that the argument between them isn't resolved, but it

1317
01:01:58.500 --> 01:02:02.340
also doesn't become a massive wedge. you know neither of them do

1318
01:02:02.340 --> 01:02:03.480
something stupid because of it.

1319
01:02:03.539 --> 01:02:07.440
No, I think it's just a way that the writer can explore the idea

1320
01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:10.199
that they're 2 valid possible approaches.

1321
01:02:10.260 --> 01:02:13.860
Yeah, and also it does give rise to my favourite Dr. Rory scene

1322
01:02:13.860 --> 01:02:16.920
from dinosaurs on a spaceship with the kiss and then the slap

1323
01:02:16.920 --> 01:02:17.940
income.

1324
01:02:19.019 --> 01:02:23.219
Oh yeah, and all the scenes between Arthur and Mark Williams.

1325
01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:26.760
Yeah, even like, dad, you don't have to sit there watching the

1326
01:02:26.760 --> 01:02:27.000
cube.

1327
01:02:27.059 --> 01:02:28.559
The doctor has told me to watch this queue.

1328
01:02:28.679 --> 01:02:30.000
That's what I'm going to do.

1329
01:02:30.059 --> 01:02:30.780
Brian's log.

1330
01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:32.400
You're not calling it Brian's log.

1331
01:02:33.900 --> 01:02:35.820
I always say it.

1332
01:02:35.880 --> 01:02:38.820
I think Arthur is an unsung hero on the show and I will miss him

1333
01:02:38.820 --> 01:02:39.239
terribly.

1334
01:02:39.300 --> 01:02:40.260
Alex Kingston.

1335
01:02:40.440 --> 01:02:43.260
Oh, I just think she's always great.

1336
01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:50.639
And I think that she's absolutely superb at the end of series 7 A

1337
01:02:50.639 --> 01:02:52.860
with the Angels take Manhattan.

1338
01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:56.639
I also think that she lifts what is a, you know, scrape that

1339
01:02:56.639 --> 01:02:59.099
basically consists of Moffatt vamping for 45.

1340
01:02:59.940 --> 01:03:01.980
So let's get her in.

1341
01:03:02.039 --> 01:03:05.159
She's got a big head and she's really funny.

1342
01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:12.119
I just weep when the doctor says I can always, I can always hear

1343
01:03:12.119 --> 01:03:12.360
you.

1344
01:03:12.420 --> 01:03:16.380
Yeah, that's, I just, in floods.

1345
01:03:16.440 --> 01:03:20.340
And, you know, Matt's doing the line, of course, but it's Alex's

1346
01:03:20.340 --> 01:03:20.940
face.

1347
01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:24.179
And I've been listening to the diary of a river song recently and

1348
01:03:24.179 --> 01:03:28.139
she is just so she loves the character so much and it comes

1349
01:03:28.139 --> 01:03:29.039
through the performance.

1350
01:03:29.099 --> 01:03:31.619
Yeah, she's as reliable as ever.

1351
01:03:31.679 --> 01:03:34.920
I think the character is pretty well done by the end of this

1352
01:03:34.920 --> 01:03:37.800
season, but then I'm proved wrong.

1353
01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:41.039
Yeah, she comes back for a superb code, doesn't she?

1354
01:03:41.099 --> 01:03:41.340
Yeah.

1355
01:03:41.400 --> 01:03:43.199
Niamh Macintosh.

1356
01:03:43.260 --> 01:03:51.599
I like her a lot, in fact, as Madame Vastra, and there's, I don't

1357
01:03:51.599 --> 01:03:51.780
know.

1358
01:03:51.840 --> 01:03:54.420
I don't know quite what it is because she's completely different

1359
01:03:54.420 --> 01:03:59.820
obviously, from what she plays as a layer in the in the Sillyrian

1360
01:03:59.820 --> 01:04:00.480
2 parter.

1361
01:04:00.539 --> 01:04:02.159
Is she different from Restak?

1362
01:04:02.219 --> 01:04:05.039
Yeah, thankfully for the same reason.

1363
01:04:06.059 --> 01:04:08.280
Yeah, I think she's wonderful.

1364
01:04:08.340 --> 01:04:09.239
Really, really great.

1365
01:04:09.300 --> 01:04:10.619
There's a kind of dignity.

1366
01:04:10.679 --> 01:04:16.260
And sort of she's intimidatingly serious and proper. she's very

1367
01:04:16.260 --> 01:04:16.440
good.

1368
01:04:16.860 --> 01:04:20.880
I love that she has the Scottish accent.

1369
01:04:20.940 --> 01:04:23.579
Like we have a music with a Scottish accent because why not?

1370
01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:28.260
But I also love because something that happens a lot with when

1371
01:04:28.260 --> 01:04:31.079
people are writing aliens is, the 1st thing they do is remove

1372
01:04:31.079 --> 01:04:36.000
humour, like aliens don't get humour, whereas Madame Vastra is

1373
01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:39.239
seriously funny and saki and charming.

1374
01:04:39.300 --> 01:04:41.039
She's not an alien.

1375
01:04:41.099 --> 01:04:42.119
She's of this planet.

1376
01:04:42.179 --> 01:04:43.139
That's true. that's true.

1377
01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:46.380
I'm using alien in the sense of different.

1378
01:04:47.099 --> 01:04:48.960
Madame Vestra?

1379
01:04:49.019 --> 01:04:49.860
Bit tiresome.

1380
01:04:50.579 --> 01:04:54.780
I really like her, but I actually, I like she liked Jenny Moore.

1381
01:04:54.840 --> 01:04:55.980
Is it Catherine Stewart?

1382
01:04:56.039 --> 01:04:56.579
Catherine Stewart.

1383
01:04:56.639 --> 01:04:58.860
Catherine Stewart, I think she's great all the time.

1384
01:04:58.920 --> 01:05:02.820
I think she's the unsung hero, all the overlooked part of that

1385
01:05:02.820 --> 01:05:03.360
trailer.

1386
01:05:03.420 --> 01:05:05.460
I mean, Dan Starkey, I think is just hilarious.

1387
01:05:05.519 --> 01:05:06.420
Silence, girl.

1388
01:05:10.199 --> 01:05:16.920
I think Dan Starkey is so funny. and and the Santarans, we with

1389
01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:22.019
him are used much better than Russell T. And it's sort of like

1390
01:05:22.019 --> 01:05:27.000
what, perhaps, if I go to Star Trek, what the Ferengi were to DS9

1391
01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:28.380
as they were to TNG.

1392
01:05:28.440 --> 01:05:29.039
Oh, yeah.

1393
01:05:29.039 --> 01:05:32.880
And I never thought they would be able to do anything better with

1394
01:05:32.880 --> 01:05:35.280
the Santarins after Dan.

1395
01:05:35.340 --> 01:05:37.920
I thought this is the way the Santarians are going.

1396
01:05:37.980 --> 01:05:42.300
I think he's great, but back to Catherine, you guys, Nathan.

1397
01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:45.960
Yeah, I think she is really good, and I do think that I really

1398
01:05:45.960 --> 01:05:52.320
like the Pardon Oster gang, and I think that they are generally

1399
01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:52.860
used.

1400
01:05:52.920 --> 01:05:56.039
Well, it's my usual thing where if the doctor has no friends, I

1401
01:05:56.039 --> 01:06:00.179
feel a bit sad about that, you know, in this era, given that we're

1402
01:06:00.179 --> 01:06:06.000
not creating a world full of Harriet Jones and Jackie and Sylvia

1403
01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:11.159
and Fran, Sarah, things, Neres, Annalise, Clive, all of those

1404
01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:14.460
people that the doctor knows, given that we're not going to do

1405
01:06:14.460 --> 01:06:17.820
that, giving them those friends and it's absolutely moffity, that

1406
01:06:17.820 --> 01:06:24.480
they should be to Doctor Who monsters and a person all doing sort

1407
01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:25.500
of jokes and stuff.

1408
01:06:25.559 --> 01:06:26.400
I think that's perfect.

1409
01:06:26.460 --> 01:06:28.199
So I'm on board with all of them.

1410
01:06:28.260 --> 01:06:30.239
I just wish they had more episodes, Brendan.

1411
01:06:30.300 --> 01:06:30.719
Yeah.

1412
01:06:30.780 --> 01:06:35.400
I think that Jenny, she's the glue that makes that trio work.

1413
01:06:35.460 --> 01:06:40.079
Like if it was a Solurian, a Sontara, and a Zygon, or walk into a

1414
01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:40.380
bar.

1415
01:06:40.500 --> 01:06:41.940
Exactly.

1416
01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:42.900
It sounds like a joke.

1417
01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:47.820
But, you know, much like the doctor and companion relationship and

1418
01:06:47.820 --> 01:06:50.880
it works better when the companion is a recognisable human.

1419
01:06:50.940 --> 01:06:55.260
I think having Jenny there is what grounds those 2 and makes it

1420
01:06:55.260 --> 01:07:00.239
believable that Vastra can be running around in a veil and Strax

1421
01:07:00.239 --> 01:07:02.940
is, you know, just has a funny shaped head, but at least he's in a

1422
01:07:02.940 --> 01:07:05.340
suit and she's the respectable face of the organisation.

1423
01:07:05.400 --> 01:07:07.739
Are they the Dr. Bill and Nardo?

1424
01:07:07.800 --> 01:07:08.820
Is that what's happening there?

1425
01:07:08.940 --> 01:07:10.199
Yeah, yeah.

1426
01:07:11.039 --> 01:07:13.679
Like not all Strax.

1427
01:07:14.639 --> 01:07:18.059
And yeah, and Jenny's Bill.

1428
01:07:18.119 --> 01:07:18.659
Yeah, yeah.

1429
01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:19.559
She's a lesbian?

1430
01:07:19.619 --> 01:07:20.460
Yeah that's right.

1431
01:07:20.519 --> 01:07:24.119
All right, our series 7, Jenny Laird Award nominations.

1432
01:07:24.179 --> 01:07:25.199
Oh, went through to me.

1433
01:07:25.260 --> 01:07:28.199
Because you're going to just be awful about it.

1434
01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:30.840
Jenny?

1435
01:07:30.900 --> 01:07:32.340
bit tiresome.

1436
01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:36.239
Nathan has his lawyers on standby. use that once more.

1437
01:07:37.139 --> 01:07:39.239
And strikes?

1438
01:07:39.300 --> 01:07:40.619
Ah, strikes is quite fun.

1439
01:07:40.679 --> 01:07:41.039
Yeah.

1440
01:07:41.099 --> 01:07:42.420
Can't hate strikes.

1441
01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:43.380
Strax is great.

1442
01:07:43.440 --> 01:07:48.300
Just to shout out in terms of Strakes, one of Dan Starkey's best

1443
01:07:48.300 --> 01:07:51.900
performances out of makeup is in good omens.

1444
01:07:51.900 --> 01:07:52.679
Oh.

1445
01:07:52.679 --> 01:07:57.480
Where, um, so you've got Crowley, played by David Tennant, and

1446
01:07:57.480 --> 01:08:02.460
you've got Michael Sheen playing Azira Fail, and...

1447
01:08:02.460 --> 01:08:03.780
That's TV's house.

1448
01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:06.420
TV's house. that's right Not Hugh Laurie.

1449
01:08:06.480 --> 01:08:06.840
No.

1450
01:08:06.900 --> 01:08:11.099
But at one point, they have a falling out, you know, one's an

1451
01:08:11.099 --> 01:08:11.940
angel, one's a devil.

1452
01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:17.760
So Zyrafel, the Angel is walking away and David Tennant is

1453
01:08:17.760 --> 01:08:19.439
shouting, Angel, come with me.

1454
01:08:19.500 --> 01:08:23.579
Angel, Angel, and then drives off and Dan Starkey walks past Zara

1455
01:08:23.579 --> 01:08:25.619
Fail and says, oh, he's not worth it, love.

1456
01:08:28.380 --> 01:08:32.159
And I was laughing so hard at the line.

1457
01:08:32.220 --> 01:08:34.020
And then went, oh my god, it stands talking.

1458
01:08:34.140 --> 01:08:36.060
I was like, gay.

1459
01:08:36.119 --> 01:08:37.380
Alright.

1460
01:08:37.439 --> 01:08:39.899
Series 7 Jenny Laird award nominations.

1461
01:08:40.140 --> 01:08:45.359
I think it has to be whoever the hell directed Nightmare and

1462
01:08:45.359 --> 01:08:45.840
Silver.

1463
01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:48.060
It's a one off.

1464
01:08:48.119 --> 01:08:49.439
He doesn't direct again.

1465
01:08:49.500 --> 01:08:55.020
It is like an extraordinary production failure for the new series

1466
01:08:55.020 --> 01:08:59.640
which even terrible episodes tend to be kind of competently done

1467
01:08:59.640 --> 01:09:02.159
but I think this is really, really properly bad.

1468
01:09:02.220 --> 01:09:07.739
And it was a mistake to do that to Neil Gaiman, because Neil

1469
01:09:07.739 --> 01:09:11.159
Gaiman wrote one of the most highly regarded scripts for series 6

1470
01:09:11.159 --> 01:09:14.939
and it was produced beautifully.

1471
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:19.680
And this is, you know, an extraordinary writer who is just given

1472
01:09:19.680 --> 01:09:24.659
someone kind of terrible to turn his script into reality.

1473
01:09:24.720 --> 01:09:29.340
And I still think that there was a salvageable episode that the

1474
01:09:29.340 --> 01:09:30.479
script isn't the problem.

1475
01:09:30.539 --> 01:09:33.840
I thought you were going to go down the road of another guest

1476
01:09:33.840 --> 01:09:34.319
star.

1477
01:09:34.380 --> 01:09:34.979
Oh, who?

1478
01:09:35.039 --> 01:09:36.779
Stephen Burkoff.

1479
01:09:36.899 --> 01:09:42.060
Or your other favourite, Gemma Redgrave, is Kate Stewart, who you

1480
01:09:42.060 --> 01:09:44.220
reckon phones it in all the time. find it in.

1481
01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:50.399
I will go specifically, and I have nothing against David Warner at

1482
01:09:50.399 --> 01:09:53.880
all for the character of Professor Kreshenko who annoys the hell

1483
01:09:53.880 --> 01:09:54.359
out of me.

1484
01:09:54.420 --> 01:09:57.420
He is a character tick in search of a character.

1485
01:09:57.479 --> 01:10:00.899
So giving him that thing of loving 80s pop music.

1486
01:10:00.960 --> 01:10:04.380
I mean, fine, that's hook, but that is the entire character and it

1487
01:10:04.380 --> 01:10:04.979
annoys me.

1488
01:10:05.039 --> 01:10:09.840
But 80s pop music and he chooses Ultravox, who, I have to say, I've

1489
01:10:09.840 --> 01:10:10.619
never even heard of.

1490
01:10:10.680 --> 01:10:12.479
He's on a submarine.

1491
01:10:12.600 --> 01:10:13.920
Why wasn't he singing The Tide is High?

1492
01:10:17.159 --> 01:10:21.539
For me, it's Stephen Thompson, writer of Journey to the Centre of

1493
01:10:21.539 --> 01:10:25.020
the TARDIS, and also writer of Curse of the Black Spot.

1494
01:10:25.079 --> 01:10:26.159
Yeah.

1495
01:10:26.159 --> 01:10:28.560
But also writer of Time Heist.

1496
01:10:28.619 --> 01:10:29.100
That's true.

1497
01:10:29.159 --> 01:10:30.960
You know, 3rd time lucky.

1498
01:10:31.020 --> 01:10:32.279
Absolutely, I love Time Heist.

1499
01:10:32.340 --> 01:10:33.479
Th time's the charm, yes.

1500
01:10:33.539 --> 01:10:33.899
Yes.

1501
01:10:33.960 --> 01:10:38.880
You're given a gift of remaking, basically remaking, as you say

1502
01:10:38.880 --> 01:10:42.359
Peter, the last 2 episodes of the invasion of time, but with a

1503
01:10:42.359 --> 01:10:43.319
modern budget.

1504
01:10:43.380 --> 01:10:45.180
And that's what you write.

1505
01:10:45.239 --> 01:10:48.119
And I've, you know, I've read up the development of the script.

1506
01:10:48.180 --> 01:10:51.479
It's not a matter of the budget was massively cut or anything like

1507
01:10:51.479 --> 01:10:51.659
that.

1508
01:10:51.720 --> 01:10:55.739
There were budget cuts as there always are, but yeah, it's just

1509
01:10:55.739 --> 01:11:00.960
space corridors and a library that's actually a library, you know

1510
01:11:00.960 --> 01:11:03.119
and it's the eye of harmony.

1511
01:11:03.180 --> 01:11:05.880
It's like, well, why does it look like a star instead of a black

1512
01:11:05.880 --> 01:11:06.420
hole.

1513
01:11:06.479 --> 01:11:08.699
It's just basic stuff like that.

1514
01:11:08.760 --> 01:11:12.180
And because I love the edge of destruction and the invasion of

1515
01:11:12.180 --> 01:11:18.359
time, it's like, I should not be disappointed by the 50th

1516
01:11:18.359 --> 01:11:21.659
anniversary update of those concepts, in my opinion.

1517
01:11:21.720 --> 01:11:23.640
So yeah, it's Stephen Thompson.

1518
01:11:23.699 --> 01:11:25.260
And look, I'm glad he gets it right next year.

1519
01:11:25.319 --> 01:11:26.579
Todd?

1520
01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:30.239
Well, for me, it has to be, whoever did Clara's hair.

1521
01:11:30.239 --> 01:11:32.819
It's in horror.

1522
01:11:32.880 --> 01:11:35.460
I just hate it so much and they obviously come back and do a

1523
01:11:35.460 --> 01:11:41.039
shield of hair in her episode with that cat lion creature as

1524
01:11:41.039 --> 01:11:41.220
well.

1525
01:11:41.279 --> 01:11:43.439
That bun on the top of the... woman who lived?

1526
01:11:43.500 --> 01:11:43.859
Yeah.

1527
01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:46.680
Yeah, I just yeah, I just hate her hair in that.

1528
01:11:46.739 --> 01:11:51.119
And also I will also give it to the nightmare in silver, which I

1529
01:11:51.119 --> 01:11:55.500
just think is woeful on many levels, more than just direction, I'm

1530
01:11:55.500 --> 01:11:55.979
sorry to say.

1531
01:11:56.039 --> 01:11:56.880
All right.

1532
01:11:56.939 --> 01:11:59.579
Well, from bad to best.

1533
01:11:59.699 --> 01:12:01.319
What is the Bonnie Langford Award?

1534
01:12:01.380 --> 01:12:05.640
Michael Pickwode for that wonderful new console room.

1535
01:12:05.699 --> 01:12:07.739
It looks beautiful.

1536
01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:10.380
I enjoy everything that's set inside it.

1537
01:12:10.380 --> 01:12:14.220
And it sort of, it harks back to the original beautiful TARDIS

1538
01:12:14.220 --> 01:12:15.239
while not copying it.

1539
01:12:15.300 --> 01:12:18.180
I think he just does a sterling job. isn't it fantastic?

1540
01:12:18.239 --> 01:12:21.420
Right from the get go, the whole lighting and everything.

1541
01:12:21.479 --> 01:12:25.619
It just, it's just a rush, you know, I just love it.

1542
01:12:25.680 --> 01:12:28.979
I think that is the best Tardis console room.

1543
01:12:29.039 --> 01:12:31.680
I go with the original, but yeah, it's pretty close.

1544
01:12:31.739 --> 01:12:32.399
Yeah.

1545
01:12:32.460 --> 01:12:35.640
I like all the editions that they put in with the capaldi.

1546
01:12:35.699 --> 01:12:37.859
Like all the sort of bookshelves and all that.

1547
01:12:37.920 --> 01:12:39.239
I think that's just enhances it even more.

1548
01:12:39.359 --> 01:12:40.979
But that whole basic thing is great.

1549
01:12:41.039 --> 01:12:41.939
Brendan?

1550
01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:45.720
I do want to give a shout out to Jenna Coleman because I just love

1551
01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:49.319
watching her on screen, but I don't usually think it's quite right

1552
01:12:49.319 --> 01:12:51.600
to pick a specific regular.

1553
01:12:51.659 --> 01:12:53.220
So I'm going to say Mark Williams.

1554
01:12:53.279 --> 01:12:54.119
Yeah.

1555
01:12:54.119 --> 01:12:57.960
Because, you know, he has been a dramatic actor before this for

1556
01:12:57.960 --> 01:13:02.039
many years, but of course, I'm most familiar with him as Peterson

1557
01:13:02.039 --> 01:13:04.140
from Red Dwarf, for God's sake.

1558
01:13:04.199 --> 01:13:10.439
And then he comes into this and he's he's funny and he's silly and

1559
01:13:10.439 --> 01:13:15.720
he's charming and he's dramatic and emotive and he's all the

1560
01:13:15.720 --> 01:13:19.920
things and it's such a shame that the epilogue that Chris Chibnell

1561
01:13:19.920 --> 01:13:23.340
wrote PS, which is a very good script, never got filmed.

1562
01:13:23.399 --> 01:13:26.340
And I think this is a shame too, that he wasn't introduced earlier

1563
01:13:26.340 --> 01:13:27.359
because he's that good.

1564
01:13:27.420 --> 01:13:27.960
Yeah.

1565
01:13:28.020 --> 01:13:29.159
Absolutely.

1566
01:13:29.220 --> 01:13:29.520
Absolutely.

1567
01:13:29.579 --> 01:13:30.840
Where was he at the wedding?

1568
01:13:31.920 --> 01:13:34.140
Yeah, Spanish fluey.

1569
01:13:34.319 --> 01:13:36.659
Snorged Bernard Cribbons.

1570
01:13:36.899 --> 01:13:38.399
Nathan?

1571
01:13:38.399 --> 01:13:43.380
I am going to give it to Mark Gaitis because I think that Gaitis

1572
01:13:43.380 --> 01:13:51.420
has got a very definite wheelhouse and he usually does an okay job

1573
01:13:51.420 --> 01:13:56.460
but I think that the Unquiet Dead is a spectacularly good script

1574
01:13:56.460 --> 01:13:59.100
from him in series one.

1575
01:13:59.159 --> 01:14:03.960
And since then, he hasn't done anything that equals it until

1576
01:14:03.960 --> 01:14:07.560
Crimson Horror, which is absolutely the sort of thing that he

1577
01:14:07.560 --> 01:14:08.520
should be writing.

1578
01:14:08.520 --> 01:14:12.000
And I just think it's really terrifically fun.

1579
01:14:12.060 --> 01:14:13.319
So he's getting it for that.

1580
01:14:13.380 --> 01:14:16.680
And if you want to extend that a little bit beyond this season, an

1581
01:14:16.680 --> 01:14:17.760
adventure in space and time.

1582
01:14:17.819 --> 01:14:18.300
Yeah.

1583
01:14:18.300 --> 01:14:18.840
Yeah.

1584
01:14:18.899 --> 01:14:19.739
He has a really good year.

1585
01:14:20.100 --> 01:14:22.500
Yes, he does have a really good year.

1586
01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:26.399
He does introduce like reintroduce the Ice Warriors and changes

1587
01:14:26.399 --> 01:14:27.239
their concept.

1588
01:14:27.300 --> 01:14:30.180
We haven't really talked about that. like I don't really like it.

1589
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:34.319
Well, I think that there's a sort of stupid problem with the Ice

1590
01:14:34.319 --> 01:14:37.859
Warriors, because the costumes in the 60s are so terrible.

1591
01:14:37.979 --> 01:14:42.720
You can't tell where the lizard begins and the armour ends.

1592
01:14:42.779 --> 01:14:44.579
That's just my everyday problem.

1593
01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:45.960
Yeah, well, that's right.

1594
01:14:46.020 --> 01:14:48.119
And like normal people aren't worried by that.

1595
01:14:48.180 --> 01:14:52.859
But Mark Gators has to bring it back and make it absolutely clear

1596
01:14:52.859 --> 01:14:57.000
which is which and why and now they're cyborgs and like I just

1597
01:14:57.000 --> 01:14:58.140
couldn't possibly care less.

1598
01:14:58.199 --> 01:15:01.920
And they have those little tiny claws, like, you know, do

1599
01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:02.159
anything.

1600
01:15:02.220 --> 01:15:05.579
They look like the dalek claw that comes out from under the cloak

1601
01:15:05.579 --> 01:15:09.359
in the Daleks.

1602
01:15:09.420 --> 01:15:12.180
Yeah, and when the series ignores all that and just makes the mice

1603
01:15:12.180 --> 01:15:14.279
Warriors and the Empress of Mars, looks pretty good.

1604
01:15:14.340 --> 01:15:15.479
It's better. better.

1605
01:15:15.539 --> 01:15:18.899
My Bunny Langford goes jointly to Amy's hair.

1606
01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:20.939
I'm on a hair thing.

1607
01:15:20.939 --> 01:15:25.140
And Alice the Maid from the snowman. because she's just a

1608
01:15:25.140 --> 01:15:28.079
wonderful character. just gets to scream and scream and scream and

1609
01:15:28.079 --> 01:15:28.859
I think it's brilliant.

1610
01:15:28.920 --> 01:15:31.680
I'm the lizard woman of paternostero and this is my wife.

1611
01:15:31.739 --> 01:15:34.979
She has guests to scream and scream and scream and she gets the

1612
01:15:34.979 --> 01:15:35.939
Bonnie Langford award.

1613
01:15:51.840 --> 01:15:55.560
As always, we end with, you know, where are you at with the next

1614
01:15:55.560 --> 01:15:58.260
little thing, which is the specials and the end of the Matt Smith

1615
01:15:58.260 --> 01:15:58.680
era.

1616
01:15:58.920 --> 01:16:01.199
One of our listeners sent this in.

1617
01:16:01.260 --> 01:16:02.220
Richard Stonewall.

1618
01:16:02.279 --> 01:16:05.100
Is it possible that almost everyone was too busy to remember that

1619
01:16:05.100 --> 01:16:08.460
this was the 50th anniversary, and that is why everyone forgot to

1620
01:16:08.460 --> 01:16:09.600
cast Katie Manning?

1621
01:16:11.159 --> 01:16:13.199
She was probably busy.

1622
01:16:13.739 --> 01:16:17.880
Um, I do think it was one of the periods where Katie Manning was

1623
01:16:17.880 --> 01:16:21.720
living in Australia, possibly, but yes, it's a definite oversight

1624
01:16:21.720 --> 01:16:25.199
that we don't have any returning companions this year.

1625
01:16:25.260 --> 01:16:28.020
Now, of course, we have lost Liz already, but that's the perfect

1626
01:16:28.020 --> 01:16:32.340
time to bring in Katie Manning or Sarah Sutton or Bonnie

1627
01:16:32.340 --> 01:16:32.939
Langford.

1628
01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:33.720
Jackie Lane.

1629
01:16:33.779 --> 01:16:34.260
Jackie Lane.

1630
01:16:34.319 --> 01:16:34.739
Lane.

1631
01:16:34.800 --> 01:16:35.100
Why not?

1632
01:16:35.159 --> 01:16:38.039
Would have been a different spin on Tasha Lem.

1633
01:16:38.520 --> 01:16:42.840
I mean, Jackie Lane would have been great instead of that Irish

1634
01:16:42.840 --> 01:16:44.399
Romulan woman that got in.

1635
01:16:44.640 --> 01:16:48.659
I mean, Jackie Lane does give the best performance of the Doctor

1636
01:16:48.659 --> 01:16:53.699
Who live event. that's true She's like, I'm in France and I'm too

1637
01:16:53.699 --> 01:16:55.800
good to come back and talk to you about this.

1638
01:16:55.859 --> 01:16:57.420
I'm gonna puff on a cigarette now.

1639
01:16:57.479 --> 01:17:01.079
And in fact, Dodo was the original impossible girl with that ever

1640
01:17:01.079 --> 01:17:01.979
changing accent.

1641
01:17:02.520 --> 01:17:05.399
See, I got an archoke in.

1642
01:17:07.079 --> 01:17:10.800
Well, I'm just imagining now Jenna Cole, but sitting in a country

1643
01:17:10.800 --> 01:17:13.439
house and like from the back you've got Dodo and Jenna leaning

1644
01:17:13.439 --> 01:17:15.479
over and saying, you know, it's really nice here.

1645
01:17:15.539 --> 01:17:16.380
You should stay.

1646
01:17:16.979 --> 01:17:20.340
Why couldn't we bring back the visions or whatever they're

1647
01:17:20.340 --> 01:17:20.579
called?

1648
01:17:20.640 --> 01:17:21.720
Maybe he did.

1649
01:17:22.560 --> 01:17:27.180
There's actually, yeah, there's a Visian in every episode. played

1650
01:17:27.180 --> 01:17:28.140
by Jenna Coleman.

1651
01:17:28.199 --> 01:17:33.300
The end of the Matt Smith era and the specials, I have a lot of

1652
01:17:33.300 --> 01:17:36.720
warmth for what's coming up and I think it's actually executed

1653
01:17:36.720 --> 01:17:37.140
very well.

1654
01:17:37.199 --> 01:17:39.180
I just wish there was more Matt Smith.

1655
01:17:39.239 --> 01:17:39.600
Yeah.

1656
01:17:39.600 --> 01:17:39.960
Yeah.

1657
01:17:40.020 --> 01:17:41.460
There almost was.

1658
01:17:41.520 --> 01:17:44.579
Like, he was in discussions to stay on for another year.

1659
01:17:44.640 --> 01:17:48.899
The BBC even made an announcement where they all but confirmed he

1660
01:17:48.899 --> 01:17:51.359
was staying on for another year, but it was worded as Matt Smith

1661
01:17:51.359 --> 01:17:53.520
is very much looking forward to series 8.

1662
01:17:53.579 --> 01:17:56.760
Not Matt Smith is looking forward to working on Sarah.

1663
01:17:56.760 --> 01:17:57.420
He wants to watch it.

1664
01:17:57.479 --> 01:17:59.520
He sits at home and watches it on Saturday night.

1665
01:17:59.579 --> 01:18:02.220
And, you know, I think there are some things in the following

1666
01:18:02.220 --> 01:18:05.880
series that were written for Matt Smith that take on a very

1667
01:18:05.880 --> 01:18:10.199
different tone when you have an older actor playing the role, such

1668
01:18:10.199 --> 01:18:14.039
as the caretaker, where the love triangle aspect would have been

1669
01:18:14.039 --> 01:18:16.380
played for comedy with Matt Smith.

1670
01:18:16.439 --> 01:18:18.960
Whereas it's just freaking nasty with Cabaldi.

1671
01:18:19.020 --> 01:18:22.319
I guess the one thing I should have said, and I haven't done in

1672
01:18:22.319 --> 01:18:24.300
this, is Matt Smith.

1673
01:18:24.359 --> 01:18:25.560
Your thoughts on Matt Smith this year?

1674
01:18:25.619 --> 01:18:30.000
I think that we've said this over the last few weeks, which is

1675
01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:37.079
that Matt is a little bit unmoored without Arthur and Karen and

1676
01:18:37.079 --> 01:18:41.279
that the writers are occasionally getting Matt Smith to do Matt

1677
01:18:41.279 --> 01:18:44.520
Smith things instead of just getting him to do things in a Matt

1678
01:18:44.520 --> 01:18:45.359
Smith way.

1679
01:18:45.420 --> 01:18:50.939
And I think the absolute culmination of all of that is those

1680
01:18:50.939 --> 01:18:54.960
fairly difficult to watch scenes in nightmare in silver.

1681
01:18:55.020 --> 01:18:56.640
It's a very good sum of that.

1682
01:18:56.699 --> 01:19:00.539
And I actually think they rectify that in the next 2 stories where

1683
01:19:00.539 --> 01:19:03.960
he's actually given much better material and is so much better and

1684
01:19:03.960 --> 01:19:06.359
is not spinning on his wheels.

1685
01:19:06.420 --> 01:19:09.119
No, but Thisis Moffatt giving it his full attention.

1686
01:19:09.180 --> 01:19:13.739
And so he's absolutely doing the best he can for the 50th

1687
01:19:13.739 --> 01:19:15.180
anniversary and to send Matt off.

1688
01:19:15.239 --> 01:19:15.960
Absolutely.

1689
01:19:16.020 --> 01:19:19.380
And it's Matt, you know, Matt, no matter what they ask him to do

1690
01:19:19.380 --> 01:19:20.640
never lets you down.

1691
01:19:20.640 --> 01:19:24.119
And I think is one of the few doctors that you're really bereft to

1692
01:19:24.119 --> 01:19:24.960
see go.

1693
01:19:25.020 --> 01:19:26.699
I mean, you're excited about the future.

1694
01:19:26.760 --> 01:19:29.520
You're always excited about a new doctor, but I really did want

1695
01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:30.600
another season with him.

1696
01:19:30.659 --> 01:19:31.380
Yeah.

1697
01:19:31.380 --> 01:19:34.979
Yeah, it's kind of like as great as David Tennant was.

1698
01:19:35.100 --> 01:19:37.739
When he goes, it's like, you know, this is actually a good time

1699
01:19:37.739 --> 01:19:42.180
for you to go because you've had such a breadth of material and

1700
01:19:42.180 --> 01:19:42.659
whatnot.

1701
01:19:42.720 --> 01:19:45.479
And Matt Smith, I think, has the same breadth of material, but I

1702
01:19:45.479 --> 01:19:46.560
still want to see more from him.

1703
01:19:46.739 --> 01:19:54.000
This season for him feels like Tom Baker in season 16 and 17 in

1704
01:19:54.000 --> 01:19:57.960
that, yes, he is off the rails, but I think a lot of people sort

1705
01:19:57.960 --> 01:20:01.260
of say with Tom in the Graham Williams era in that, he's off the

1706
01:20:01.260 --> 01:20:02.640
rails and he doesn't care about the show anymore.

1707
01:20:02.699 --> 01:20:05.520
It's like he's off the rails, but he absolutely cares about the

1708
01:20:05.520 --> 01:20:05.760
show.

1709
01:20:05.880 --> 01:20:09.899
And when you look at Matt Smith here, you get, yeah, he is like

1710
01:20:09.899 --> 01:20:12.420
throwing himself around in Nightmare and Silver and whatnot.

1711
01:20:12.479 --> 01:20:16.079
And then the following week in name of the doctor, he cries at its

1712
01:20:16.079 --> 01:20:21.119
proper ugly crying and speaking in a hoarse whisper and what have

1713
01:20:21.119 --> 01:20:21.359
you.

1714
01:20:21.420 --> 01:20:24.060
But then, you know, you've got the ring tobacca 10 as well, where

1715
01:20:24.060 --> 01:20:25.739
he's making the big shouty speech.

1716
01:20:25.800 --> 01:20:29.760
But then when he gives Clara back her ring, it's just this really

1717
01:20:29.760 --> 01:20:32.939
quiet figure, they wanted to say thank you and he's absolutely

1718
01:20:32.939 --> 01:20:36.899
thinking about the performance and sometimes it is perhaps too

1719
01:20:36.899 --> 01:20:37.319
big.

1720
01:20:37.380 --> 01:20:42.600
But he is still always capable of bringing it down to that low

1721
01:20:42.600 --> 01:20:46.380
level that I think is what in the audition. surprised Stephen

1722
01:20:46.380 --> 01:20:49.380
Moffat and made him suddenly go, oh, bloody hell, I want to cast

1723
01:20:49.380 --> 01:20:52.380
someone in their 40s and I'm now casting the youngest doctor of

1724
01:20:52.380 --> 01:20:52.739
all time.

1725
01:20:52.800 --> 01:20:57.659
It's because he has that quality to suddenly feel the weight of a

1726
01:20:57.659 --> 01:20:58.020
1000 years.

1727
01:20:58.079 --> 01:21:01.920
And he's still bringing that in some of the best times he brings

1728
01:21:01.920 --> 01:21:02.220
that here.

1729
01:21:02.279 --> 01:21:05.340
Yeah, and even in amidst all the problems.

1730
01:21:05.399 --> 01:21:08.159
He still, as I think we said on the episode, delivers probably his

1731
01:21:08.159 --> 01:21:09.960
best performance in a town called Mercy.

1732
01:21:34.800 --> 01:21:38.279
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for for now.

1733
01:21:38.399 --> 01:21:42.180
We'll be back at the end of November for a massive week of 50th

1734
01:21:42.180 --> 01:21:47.100
anniversary celebrations, starting all the way back in 1963 with

1735
01:21:47.100 --> 01:21:49.079
an adventure in space and time.

1736
01:21:49.619 --> 01:21:53.460
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1737
01:21:53.460 --> 01:21:56.220
and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook

1738
01:21:56.220 --> 01:21:59.220
at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website

1739
01:21:59.220 --> 01:22:02.100
flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find links to our other

1740
01:22:02.100 --> 01:22:06.300
podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterterra, maximum power, and

1741
01:22:06.300 --> 01:22:08.039
untitled Star Trek project.

1742
01:22:08.100 --> 01:22:11.760
Until next time, remember to give yourself some proper thinking

1743
01:22:11.760 --> 01:22:15.479
time when deciding whether to snog, marry, or avoid.

1744
01:22:15.539 --> 01:22:17.819
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1745
01:22:17.880 --> 01:22:18.960
Good night.

1746
01:22:19.020 --> 01:22:19.979
See you soon.

1747
01:22:20.039 --> 01:22:20.939
Good night.

1748
01:22:25.260 --> 01:22:27.779
That was Flight through Entirety.

1749
01:22:27.840 --> 01:22:30.539
Todd Bilby, Nathan Bottleley, Peter Griffiths, and Brendan Jones.

1750
01:22:30.600 --> 01:22:32.520
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1751
01:22:32.579 --> 01:22:35.939
This episode, everyone's so damn special, was recorded on the 17th

1752
01:22:35.939 --> 01:22:38.939
of July 2022 and released on the 30th of October.

1753
01:22:39.420 --> 01:22:43.380
That's the end of our Series 7 coverage, and so I'd like to thank

1754
01:22:43.380 --> 01:22:46.079
everyone who joined us on the sofa of reasonable comfort this

1755
01:22:46.079 --> 01:22:46.319
year.

1756
01:22:46.380 --> 01:22:50.520
Fiona Tolney, Stephen B, Adam Richard, Kevin Bernard, Jack

1757
01:22:50.520 --> 01:22:54.840
Shanahan, Mark McManus, Syhart, Pete Lambert, Corey McMahon, and

1758
01:22:54.840 --> 01:22:55.680
Matthew Hansel.

1759
01:22:55.739 --> 01:22:57.060
We'll see you next month.

1760
01:23:00.960 --> 01:23:06.000
I think that's where, um, in the second half of the season, because

1761
01:23:06.000 --> 01:23:07.739
he's got his hand in so many different things.

1762
01:23:07.800 --> 01:23:10.140
He doesn't have time to reflect on that stuff.

1763
01:23:10.199 --> 01:23:10.680
Yeah.

1764
01:23:10.739 --> 01:23:14.399
And he can deliver something that's very good, but he doesn't have

1765
01:23:14.399 --> 01:23:17.579
time to do that reform and to actually go, no, I need to do that.

1766
01:23:17.699 --> 01:23:18.600
I think...

1767
01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:21.000
There was a bit of that last year as well, wasn't there?

1768
01:23:21.060 --> 01:23:23.880
Like, you know, those sort of undercooked episodes around the

1769
01:23:23.880 --> 01:23:26.159
finale and the mid-season finale.

1770
01:23:26.220 --> 01:23:27.720
But isn't isn't this where?

1771
01:23:27.720 --> 01:23:30.720
Sherlock's really taking off like these years?

1772
01:23:30.899 --> 01:23:31.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1773
01:23:31.800 --> 01:23:35.640
And I think it really is putting a lot of effort into the 50th.

1774
01:23:35.640 --> 01:23:37.739
And there's all problems around the 50th, isn't there?

1775
01:23:37.800 --> 01:23:38.579
No one's contractor.

1776
01:23:38.640 --> 01:23:41.520
Jenna Coleman is the only actor contracted.

1777
01:23:41.640 --> 01:23:45.000
When they when they finish shooting name of the doctor.

1778
01:23:45.060 --> 01:23:46.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1779
01:23:46.319 --> 01:23:47.399
Matt's not there.

1780
01:23:47.460 --> 01:23:50.399
Yeah, we've tried to get Eggleston, but no one ever talks about

1781
01:23:50.399 --> 01:23:55.079
the fact that Matt put off other work and delayed his move to

1782
01:23:55.079 --> 01:23:57.600
Hollywood as a favour to Stephen.

1783
01:23:57.659 --> 01:23:58.439
Right.

1784
01:23:58.439 --> 01:23:59.460
He wasn't contracted.

1785
01:23:59.520 --> 01:24:01.140
He just did it because Stephen asked.

1786
01:24:01.199 --> 01:24:01.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1787
01:24:01.979 --> 01:24:07.439
And and didn't he also, like, in that, um, maybe not in the, in

1788
01:24:07.439 --> 01:24:10.079
the last scene of name of the doctor, but hadn't he hurt his back

1789
01:24:10.079 --> 01:24:12.420
and there was meant to be a bit, there was apparently meant to be

1790
01:24:12.420 --> 01:24:13.859
a bit more of an action scene there.

1791
01:24:13.920 --> 01:24:17.520
But it's kind of like, yeah, you know, the doctor's stumbling

1792
01:24:17.520 --> 01:24:18.539
around because he's in his own psych.

1793
01:24:18.600 --> 01:24:20.640
Like, no, the doctor's stumbling around because Matt Smith can't

1794
01:24:20.640 --> 01:24:21.180
stand up.

1795
01:24:21.239 --> 01:24:24.420
Isn't that the same thing that happened to Peter Capaldi?

1796
01:24:24.479 --> 01:24:25.560
You know, they had the same name.

1797
01:24:25.859 --> 01:24:26.819
They all injure it.

1798
01:24:26.819 --> 01:24:27.779
Because Tenon?

1799
01:24:27.779 --> 01:24:29.279
heard his back, remember?

1800
01:24:29.340 --> 01:24:30.479
Like, that's the whole thing.

1801
01:24:30.539 --> 01:24:31.739
It's just...

1802
01:24:31.739 --> 01:24:32.819
With Capone...

1803
01:24:32.880 --> 01:24:35.699
Yeah, with Capaldi as well, he also runs like 2 marathons a year.

1804
01:24:35.760 --> 01:24:37.199
So it was a little bit doctor.

1805
01:24:37.199 --> 01:24:38.880
I runs like a penguin.

1806
01:24:38.939 --> 01:24:41.279
I would love to see Cavaldi run.

1807
01:24:41.460 --> 01:24:43.619
Could have got a whole commentary.

1808
01:24:43.680 --> 01:24:46.859
It was Armano Yanucci who said that you can't put anything funnier

1809
01:24:46.859 --> 01:24:49.319
on television than Peter Capaldi running.

1810
01:24:49.439 --> 01:24:53.880
So Malcolm Tucker's running out by the bins at the back in the

1811
01:24:53.880 --> 01:24:55.380
final episode in the thick of it.

1812
01:24:55.439 --> 01:24:56.100
It's so good.

1813
01:24:56.760 --> 01:24:59.819
Reading up on some of the script developments, and I can't

1814
01:24:59.819 --> 01:25:02.579
specifically remember, but there are some lines, I think, in the

1815
01:25:02.579 --> 01:25:03.539
bells of St.

1816
01:25:03.539 --> 01:25:10.319
John, which, you know, are kind of sexista, ha, ha, women jokes

1817
01:25:10.319 --> 01:25:12.539
and the complete history just notes.

1818
01:25:12.600 --> 01:25:14.939
Stephen Moffatt decided to remove this line.

1819
01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:18.239
So it's very clear that when he's writing these, it's just kind

1820
01:25:18.239 --> 01:25:21.180
not exactly stream of consciousness, but he's deciding, I'll cut

1821
01:25:21.180 --> 01:25:21.720
stuff out later.

1822
01:25:21.779 --> 01:25:25.199
And I think sometimes he just hasn't caught stuff, but really

1823
01:25:25.199 --> 01:25:26.279
should be caught.

1824
01:25:26.340 --> 01:25:28.199
When you crack jokes sometimes, you go for the lowest common

1825
01:25:28.199 --> 01:25:31.560
denominator, and if you have your time, you think, oh, no, actually

1826
01:25:31.560 --> 01:25:33.479
because, you know, it's the nature of humour.

1827
01:25:33.539 --> 01:25:36.840
But also, you know, in Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS, where

1828
01:25:36.840 --> 01:25:40.979
Bram cuts away a bit of the console, I like to think that that's

1829
01:25:40.979 --> 01:25:44.039
the bit that Jody's hanging onto, which comes apart and chucks her

1830
01:25:44.039 --> 01:25:45.840
out the door and twice upon a time.

1831
01:25:47.279 --> 01:25:53.640
Oh, that's the other Ginny leader ward, making that one of those

1832
01:25:53.640 --> 01:25:56.579
the brother, the brothers think that he's an android?

1833
01:25:56.640 --> 01:25:58.680
Oh, God, so appalling. dumb.

1834
01:25:58.739 --> 01:26:02.699
Like, you know, it's, it's clearly Steve, Steve Thompson has gone

1835
01:26:02.699 --> 01:26:06.060
you know, the twist is always this person we thought was human was

1836
01:26:06.060 --> 01:26:06.659
an Android.

1837
01:26:06.720 --> 01:26:10.020
What if we do it the other way round and no one says, this is why

1838
01:26:10.020 --> 01:26:10.560
you don't.

1839
01:26:10.680 --> 01:26:12.600
What does he eat?

1840
01:26:12.659 --> 01:26:13.319
Nuts.

1841
01:26:13.920 --> 01:26:15.779
Dumb, isn't it?

1842
01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:16.680
Plug himself in?

1843
01:26:16.739 --> 01:26:18.779
You know, it might work if he was the only one.

1844
01:26:19.079 --> 01:26:23.460
You know, and he's like the brother of Theseus.

1845
01:26:23.520 --> 01:26:25.079
They've just been replaced.

1846
01:26:25.140 --> 01:26:28.500
But, you know, no, I'm still thinking human who thinks he's an

1847
01:26:28.500 --> 01:26:28.920
Android.

1848
01:26:28.979 --> 01:26:30.300
No, Android who thinks he's a human.

1849
01:26:30.359 --> 01:26:31.920
What the fuck?

1850
01:26:31.979 --> 01:26:33.119
dumb shit.

1851
01:26:33.180 --> 01:26:33.840
Dumb.

1852
01:26:33.899 --> 01:26:35.279
All right.

1853
01:26:35.340 --> 01:26:37.140
I'm going to press stop because we were swearing now.