WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:51:03 1 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:48.359 Hello, dear listener and welcome back to Fly Through Entirety, the 2 00:00:48.359 --> 00:00:49.979 only Doctor Who podcast. 3 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:53.520 Slightly more entertaining than spending 4 minutes knitting. 4 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:55.020 I'm Nathan. 5 00:00:55.140 --> 00:00:56.280 I'm Brendan. 6 00:00:56.340 --> 00:00:57.240 I'm James. 7 00:00:57.299 --> 00:00:58.740 I'm Conrad. 8 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:03.359 Well, it's Paul McGann's 54th birthday and on BBC iPlayer, the 9 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:05.519 final episode of his era has just dropped. 10 00:01:05.640 --> 00:01:07.260 So, who lives? 11 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:10.799 Who dies, and who is unexpectedly canonised? 12 00:01:10.859 --> 00:01:14.819 Let's answer these questions as we discuss the day of the doctor 13 00:01:14.819 --> 00:01:17.159 prequel, The Knights of the Doctor. 14 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:44.099 I'm struggling to remember where I was and what was happening when 15 00:01:44.099 --> 00:01:48.120 I first watched this, and the big thing that I can't remember is 16 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:51.420 was I surprised by the Paul McGann reveal? 17 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:55.439 I got a text from somebody who was walking down the road and I 18 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:57.180 just got a text saying, have you seen the Dr. 2 thing? 19 00:01:57.239 --> 00:01:58.200 And I was like, uh, no. 20 00:01:58.260 --> 00:01:59.640 And he's like, go home now and watch it. 21 00:01:59.700 --> 00:02:02.099 And when I saw it, and Paul was on there. 22 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:02.700 That was a shock. 23 00:02:02.819 --> 00:02:04.019 Like a total shock. 24 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:07.500 So yeah, no even whispers of it here, I don't think. 25 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:09.060 What about you? 26 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:09.719 Do you remember? 27 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:10.199 James? 28 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:13.680 I think someone had ruined it for me. 29 00:02:14.699 --> 00:02:21.180 Like, had literally gone, oh, so that Paul McGann mini said, I'm 30 00:02:21.180 --> 00:02:22.800 like, what? 31 00:02:25.979 --> 00:02:30.900 It was supposed to be released the day before. the anniversary and 32 00:02:30.900 --> 00:02:34.199 they brought it forward by more than a week. 33 00:02:34.259 --> 00:02:37.740 Uh, I believe, because it was about to be leaked. 34 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:38.580 Right. 35 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:39.180 Right. 36 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:42.719 And there was another minisode, like another prequel episode 37 00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:47.580 called The Last... which I did watch today and it's super 38 00:02:47.580 --> 00:02:48.360 forgettable. 39 00:02:48.539 --> 00:02:50.699 We're getting to a podcast on that. 40 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:52.860 No, no, there's nothing there. 41 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:54.479 We'd have been over by now, I think. 42 00:02:54.599 --> 00:02:56.280 So it's not very good. 43 00:02:56.340 --> 00:03:02.400 But I think this is actually pretty amazing for like a weird pre 44 00:03:01.139 --> 00:03:05.159 publicity throwaway thing that's just going to end up as a DVD 45 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:05.879 extra eventually. 46 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:10.259 I kind of like to think of it as the pre-credit scene for Dave the 47 00:03:10.259 --> 00:03:10.560 Doctor. 48 00:03:10.620 --> 00:03:12.599 Oh, okay. 49 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:13.080 Yeah. 50 00:03:13.139 --> 00:03:13.680 Nice. 51 00:03:13.740 --> 00:03:16.860 The funny thing is, I don't remember watching it at home, and I 52 00:03:16.860 --> 00:03:22.979 think where I actually watched it was, um, I was out visiting my 53 00:03:22.979 --> 00:03:27.840 parents, and my brother must have just come up from Melbourne 54 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:31.439 because we were in my parents' car coming back from the airport 55 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:35.879 and I think I saw a notification for it on Twitter. 56 00:03:35.939 --> 00:03:39.780 And it was, and someone had retweeted it just saying, watch this 57 00:03:39.780 --> 00:03:42.960 before you read the rest of Twitter. basically. 58 00:03:43.020 --> 00:03:47.580 And so I'm like, okay, I'll just watch it in the car. 59 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:48.479 I've got my headphones. 60 00:03:48.539 --> 00:03:53.159 And I watched it and got to the moment of probably not the one 61 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:57.120 you're expecting. rewound it, leaned over to my brother, gave him 62 00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:59.159 a headphone and said, you have to watch this with me. 63 00:03:59.219 --> 00:04:00.419 He was driving. 64 00:04:03.479 --> 00:04:05.039 And we watched it. 65 00:04:05.099 --> 00:04:07.560 And sort of we got to the end of it. 66 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:09.719 And he went, he went, Oh, that was John Hurt at the end. 67 00:04:09.780 --> 00:04:12.599 And I'm like, and I'm like, yes, that was your takeaway. 68 00:04:12.659 --> 00:04:13.259 Yeah, yeah. 69 00:04:13.319 --> 00:04:15.599 Well, then he goes, who was the guy at the beginning? 70 00:04:16.980 --> 00:04:18.420 Wow. 71 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:20.639 And I had a like Paul McGann. 72 00:04:20.699 --> 00:04:22.800 From the Doctor Who movie. 73 00:04:22.860 --> 00:04:24.300 Oh, he's looking good. 74 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:25.920 I didn't have a moustache. 75 00:04:25.980 --> 00:04:32.220 No, not Peter Cushing. reanimated corpse of Peter Gushing. 76 00:04:32.339 --> 00:04:34.560 Patient to look like Paul McGann. 77 00:04:34.620 --> 00:04:38.220 Yes, that's right Eating in the novelisation of Day of the Doctor 78 00:04:38.220 --> 00:04:42.480 Moffatt makes it clear that it is actually Peter Cushing in Rogue 79 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:45.540 One, who is a friend of the doctors, and the doctor told Peter 80 00:04:45.540 --> 00:04:49.019 Cushing about his adventures, and they made a film of them. 81 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:52.139 And then he picked up Peter Cushing and transported him into the 82 00:04:52.139 --> 00:04:56.399 future to star in a Star Wars film again. which I just think one 83 00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:57.540 of my absolutely delight. 84 00:04:57.600 --> 00:04:59.339 Oh, I think the true comedy. 85 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:00.660 No, no, seriously. 86 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:01.680 I haven't read it. 87 00:05:01.740 --> 00:05:02.879 It's really good. 88 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:07.319 Isn't it written like out of order? 89 00:05:07.379 --> 00:05:08.579 What he does? 90 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:10.560 It's Moffat, everything's out. 91 00:05:10.620 --> 00:05:13.740 I mean, we might talk about this on tomorrow's episode, maybe. 92 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:19.560 But what he does is he narrates that scene in the tower with the 3 93 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:24.899 doctors in one room without resorting to any names for the doctors 94 00:05:24.899 --> 00:05:29.220 like he doesn't do the the doctor 2 thing that Terence Deeks does 95 00:05:29.220 --> 00:05:31.199 in the in the 3 doctors novelisation. 96 00:05:31.259 --> 00:05:35.699 And he also tells that in chronological order in the order as they 97 00:05:35.699 --> 00:05:36.720 happen to the doctor. 98 00:05:36.779 --> 00:05:40.920 So 1st from Tenet's point of view, then from Smith, if you, then 99 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:43.500 from Hertz point of view, it's very, very cleverly done. 100 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:46.740 There's not that much scope for that sort of thing in this 101 00:05:46.740 --> 00:05:47.279 episode. 102 00:05:47.339 --> 00:05:51.060 But there's some fun Moffatt sitcom stuff, I think, some funny 103 00:05:51.060 --> 00:05:51.600 lines. 104 00:05:52.199 --> 00:05:55.680 Yeah, like how are we going to the back of the ship because the 105 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:57.420 front crashes first. think it through. 106 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:02.759 Like, yeah, we watched it tonight back to back with Dave the 107 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:04.680 Doctor before coming down for recording and that got a big laugh 108 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:05.279 from Rod. 109 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:10.079 I'm not sure about McGann's delivery of the Bring Me Some Knitting 110 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:13.079 line, but it is absolutely moffity, isn't it? 111 00:06:13.139 --> 00:06:14.819 And it is the sort of thing that we had before. 112 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:19.319 I think the doctor says something about boiling an egg when he's 113 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:23.160 given 12 minutes to live in the Big Bang, doesn't he? 114 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:23.759 Something like that. 115 00:06:23.819 --> 00:06:25.620 So it's the sort of thing that he's done before. 116 00:06:25.860 --> 00:06:31.740 And I think there's a Douglas Adams line somewhere in one of the 117 00:06:31.740 --> 00:06:35.639 hitchhiker's books where someone has like 10 minutes to live and 118 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:38.279 they're saying, oh, I can do loads of stuff. 119 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:41.759 And the one that just sticks in my head is run half a bath. 120 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:45.300 Yeah, yeah. 121 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:54.540 On the shooting script, they just call this Doctor Who, 50th 122 00:06:54.540 --> 00:06:55.620 anniversary prequel. 123 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:58.800 But I think what's really going on here is this is a Brain of 124 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:01.379 Morpheus sequel, and that's what I'm absolutely here for. 125 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:04.259 That's one of the most, that's what that's equally to me as 126 00:07:04.259 --> 00:07:05.639 exciting as all the new stuff. 127 00:07:05.699 --> 00:07:06.839 It's like, 0 my god. 128 00:07:06.899 --> 00:07:08.279 We're going back to calm. 129 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:12.540 Is there some like cultural critique in there as well? 130 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:17.160 Because, doesn't the doctor say something along the lines of, oh 131 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:18.420 this is the planet Khan. 132 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:21.420 You're the sisterhood of Khan, sisterhood of out of boredom or 133 00:07:21.420 --> 00:07:22.019 something? 134 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:23.339 Yeah, the flame of other boredom. 135 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:25.560 Like the keepers of the flame of utter boredom. 136 00:07:25.620 --> 00:07:25.800 Yeah. 137 00:07:25.860 --> 00:07:26.160 Yeah. 138 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:26.579 Yeah. 139 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:30.600 So Tom does say something fairly similar about how their 140 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:34.740 immortality has caused them to stagnate and it's the sort of 141 00:07:34.740 --> 00:07:36.060 source of all of their problems. 142 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:42.300 But I think, because this week, I mean, this episode and day of 143 00:07:42.300 --> 00:07:47.160 the doctor, are all about bringing Gallifre back and healing the 144 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:51.240 big 16 year rift that we had in the show's history. 145 00:07:51.300 --> 00:07:55.680 And so Gallifrey comes back, but before it comes back, we get Khan 146 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:56.220 again. 147 00:07:56.339 --> 00:07:58.500 Yes, and who would have guessed? 148 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:01.560 It just wasn't on the list of things that we thought we would ever 149 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:01.980 see again. 150 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:07.319 It's kind of a pity, really, that the children in need special 151 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:09.360 from 2005, a.k.a. 152 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:13.259 Pudsy Cutaway, doesn't have the fan title officially, which was 153 00:08:13.259 --> 00:08:16.500 born again, because Russell T. Davies suggested, oh, that could be 154 00:08:16.500 --> 00:08:17.579 because this could be Khan again. 155 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:19.500 Yeah, kind of good. 156 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:20.100 Nice. 157 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:23.399 I came up with I was thinking a similar of what, like what I might 158 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:23.939 have called that. 159 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:30.899 And I came up with the man with 2 brains of Morbius or... or 160 00:08:30.899 --> 00:08:37.799 sister act 2 wishful drinking to steal Carrie Fisher's beautiful 161 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:39.659 title for her autobiography. 162 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:44.159 I mean, they are great. 163 00:08:44.220 --> 00:08:45.600 They're really, really superb. 164 00:08:45.659 --> 00:08:48.840 He does bring them back once more, but goodness me, they're good. 165 00:08:48.899 --> 00:08:53.879 Yeah, and I just, I find it interesting that Moffat would not be 166 00:08:53.879 --> 00:08:57.659 the last Doctor Who showrunner to go back to the well of the brain 167 00:08:57.659 --> 00:09:01.799 of Morbius to go, I want to reveal a heretofore unseen moment in 168 00:09:01.799 --> 00:09:05.820 Doctor Who's history with a hidden incarnation here or there. 169 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:09.240 And it's kind of interesting that neither of those revelations are 170 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:10.679 specifically about Gallifrey. 171 00:09:10.740 --> 00:09:12.480 They're about a place that's Gallifrey adjacent. 172 00:09:12.539 --> 00:09:13.440 Yeah. 173 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:15.600 It's Gallifrey, but magic. 174 00:09:15.659 --> 00:09:20.159 Yes, it is. but magic and Gallifray, but women as well. 175 00:09:20.220 --> 00:09:20.759 Yeah. 176 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:21.899 Yeah. 177 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:24.720 I think it's exactly the right choice. 178 00:09:24.779 --> 00:09:27.419 I think one of the thing about this that strikes me about this 179 00:09:27.419 --> 00:09:31.139 episode is that the, I think the choices he's made. 180 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:32.759 The basic choices are really strong. 181 00:09:32.820 --> 00:09:34.799 Like, you get the sense them often knows. 182 00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:36.299 This is important stuff. 183 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:38.940 And this is where in a normal episode, he would pull something new 184 00:09:38.940 --> 00:09:39.240 out. 185 00:09:39.299 --> 00:09:41.399 He'll just make, you know, he'll go a 1000000000 years in the 186 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:41.639 future. 187 00:09:41.700 --> 00:09:44.460 There's some thing and you just pull some sort of jokey thing out 188 00:09:44.460 --> 00:09:44.879 of his bag. 189 00:09:44.940 --> 00:09:47.940 But he knows that this is the sort of what's at stake here. 190 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:50.879 And I think the cisterhood of Khan is exactly the right choice. 191 00:09:50.940 --> 00:09:53.460 And this was a perfect excuse to go back and rewatch Brain and 192 00:09:53.460 --> 00:09:54.600 Morbius, which I did the other day. 193 00:09:54.659 --> 00:09:57.779 And it really struck me how much of that is exactly right. 194 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:01.620 You know, and I'd sort of forgotten, like, um, you know, the 195 00:10:01.620 --> 00:10:04.379 doctor sort of blithely says that Khan is like sort of virtually 196 00:10:04.379 --> 00:10:07.379 neighbouring Gallifrey. you know, it's from my neck of the woods 197 00:10:07.379 --> 00:10:09.240 pretty much, he says, you know, within a couple of 1000000000 198 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:09.419 years. 199 00:10:09.539 --> 00:10:12.899 And the key thing, that the sisters say that the elixir, which I'd 200 00:10:12.899 --> 00:10:15.600 forgotten, that the elixir of life is, is they shared it with the 201 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:19.259 Time Lords on rare occasions when there was some sort of 202 00:10:19.259 --> 00:10:21.659 difficulty with regenerating a body. 203 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:23.460 I'm like, well, that's what this is. 204 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:27.059 You know, that's I think it's the right choice, I think. 205 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:31.440 And because it's the 50th anniversary going back into the 206 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:36.120 mythology, which is something that I normally hate is absolutely 207 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:37.500 the right thing to do. 208 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:41.820 And because it's done so well, the woman they have, her name's 209 00:10:41.820 --> 00:10:42.600 Ohela, is she? 210 00:10:42.659 --> 00:10:44.639 Yeah, she's a heila rather than a heka. 211 00:10:44.700 --> 00:10:46.559 Ohika was the one who was left alive. 212 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:51.240 She probably is her, but she just forgot to spell it. 213 00:10:51.299 --> 00:10:54.000 Oh, maybe she's got one of those signatures where it's in a very 214 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:56.340 hard... 215 00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:56.940 I don't know. 216 00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:58.860 She's been signing autographs for so long now. 217 00:10:58.919 --> 00:10:59.820 It's just loose. 218 00:10:59.879 --> 00:11:00.720 I can't remember her name. 219 00:11:00.779 --> 00:11:03.960 Yeah, they just, look, they just never get it right at Starbucks 220 00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:05.940 so she's just like, fine, I'm a healer now. 221 00:11:06.419 --> 00:11:09.120 But I think she's tremendously good. 222 00:11:09.179 --> 00:11:10.259 She is terrific. 223 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:14.220 And she absolutely deserves the comeback that she gets at the 224 00:11:14.220 --> 00:11:15.240 beginning of series nine. 225 00:11:15.299 --> 00:11:17.639 She's really, really properly good. 226 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:19.620 And at the end of series, no? 227 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:20.879 Oh, okay. 228 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:22.980 Yeah. 229 00:11:22.980 --> 00:11:28.740 So this is Claire Higgins, who's like 6 time Olivier award winner 230 00:11:28.740 --> 00:11:33.120 and she's sort of, you know, for stuff like Phaedra and Hecuba. she 231 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:36.419 can dash off grit, and I've seen, I've seen her in the theatre 232 00:11:36.419 --> 00:11:39.299 doing this stuff, and it's just, it's all that Greek, you know 233 00:11:39.299 --> 00:11:41.820 you'll know all this, Nathan, is a classicist, you know, it's like 234 00:11:41.820 --> 00:11:44.940 it's, it's a whole different world, and they just have to manifest 235 00:11:44.940 --> 00:11:50.580 just like massively elemental, you know, Titan forms of acting. 236 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:55.019 And so this for her is just like dusting off brush, cutting off a 237 00:11:55.019 --> 00:11:57.779 little slice, a little shaving of that kind of talent for us. 238 00:11:57.779 --> 00:12:01.559 But of course, what it does, it gives this enormous weight because 239 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:04.799 you, you know, she brings all of that to it. 240 00:12:04.860 --> 00:12:08.759 So she's just amazing and it's crucially somebody who Paul would 241 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:12.360 very like would really relish playing against and clearly does. 242 00:12:12.419 --> 00:12:13.559 So she's amazing. 243 00:12:13.620 --> 00:12:15.059 She really, she really is. 244 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:17.580 And she does get hefty dialogue. 245 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:21.240 You know, there's a lot of exposition, but it's really elevated in 246 00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:23.820 its tone and the stakes are so high. 247 00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:27.840 I mean, it's an episode where she has to convince the doctor to 248 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:33.720 abandon his principles in order to fight a war that is destroying 249 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:35.039 the whole universe. 250 00:12:35.100 --> 00:12:35.940 That line. 251 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:41.399 Her line about Cass, you know, the doctor says, Cass wanted to see 252 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:44.580 the universe and she says, she didn't miss much. 253 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:45.960 It's very nearly over. 254 00:12:46.019 --> 00:12:48.720 It's so good and she delivers it so well. 255 00:12:48.779 --> 00:12:49.980 Exactly that. 256 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:52.320 It's like, this is like, oh, that, you know, she's like, it's 257 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:52.500 already gone. 258 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:52.980 You missed it, love. 259 00:12:53.100 --> 00:12:54.659 It's like blink and eye stuff, you know. 260 00:12:54.659 --> 00:13:00.059 And, you know, you know, it's kind of an example of what, at the 261 00:13:00.059 --> 00:13:03.899 time, a lot of fans accused Moffat of overcasting, and, you know 262 00:13:03.899 --> 00:13:07.679 if you think of Olivia Coleman in the 11th hour or in at Crosby in 263 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:08.340 the 11th hour. 264 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:11.519 And interviews at the time, Stephen Moffatt sort of has an 265 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:13.379 apologetic tone about getting these big actors. 266 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:16.080 But since leaving the role of executive producer, what he's asked 267 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:19.379 about, he's like, no, you know, for a long time, I thought, yeah, I 268 00:13:19.379 --> 00:13:20.100 wasted them. 269 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:23.460 And then I thought, no, no, I didn't waste them. 270 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:28.200 I got in a great actor who put in massive impact into a small part 271 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:31.500 of the episode and they enjoy doing it. 272 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:32.519 We enjoyed having them. 273 00:13:32.580 --> 00:13:36.600 He's like, you know, you don't have to give the big actor a big 274 00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:37.080 role. 275 00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:40.860 And he's like, even, you know, you give a less experienced actor a 276 00:13:40.860 --> 00:13:42.720 big role and let them shine in it as well. 277 00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:46.440 And cast is played by Emma Campbell Jones, and I'm sure I've seen 278 00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:48.059 her in other things, but I can't remember what. 279 00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:52.860 And even then, you know, she's got a handful of lines and Stephen 280 00:13:52.860 --> 00:13:56.159 Moffatt knows how to make her immediately companion material 281 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:59.700 because she kept her head and saved everyone else because she was 282 00:13:59.700 --> 00:14:01.500 the only person who wasn't screaming. 283 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:02.220 Yeah. 284 00:14:02.220 --> 00:14:07.919 And so welcome aboard is the doctor welcoming welcoming her onto 285 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:10.019 the Tartar as a new companion. 286 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:10.740 Yeah. 287 00:14:10.740 --> 00:14:15.899 But she's also the indication that the Doctor Who universe is now 288 00:14:15.899 --> 00:14:19.440 broken because she says absolutely not to going on this 289 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:20.220 adventure. 290 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:23.940 Everyone else goes, oh, my God, you're this magical time lord with 291 00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:25.919 a box that's bigger on the inside than the outside. 292 00:14:25.980 --> 00:14:28.200 She finds those 2 things out and she's like, absolutely not. 293 00:14:28.259 --> 00:14:32.220 Yeah, that, I mean, that, that thing's a cliche, isn't it? 294 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:36.720 that everyone has to say it's bigger on the inside than the 295 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:40.139 outside. and that's a source of wonder. 296 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:44.700 And for her, it's a source of horror, like Moffatt makes it the 297 00:14:44.700 --> 00:14:46.860 thing when she hears him say that. 298 00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:50.100 That's the thing that causes her to reject him and slam the door 299 00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:51.120 between them. 300 00:14:51.179 --> 00:14:56.039 And I think that's a really, really good subversion of that. 301 00:14:56.100 --> 00:15:00.120 Yeah, he even, as he sort of pulls a hand in hand, he goes, oh 302 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:01.799 come on, you know, like, come aboard, you'll love it. 303 00:15:01.860 --> 00:15:02.700 You know, instantly. 304 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:03.720 He's just like, oh, they all do. 305 00:15:03.779 --> 00:15:08.460 You know, it's just like, I think too, this is a week where we get 306 00:15:08.460 --> 00:15:13.860 to see a bit more of the time war than we ever had. 307 00:15:13.980 --> 00:15:16.019 And here we get to hear about it. 308 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:19.740 It's the background to this story and both cats and Ohealer. 309 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:20.399 Tell us about it. 310 00:15:20.460 --> 00:15:26.039 And one of the things that I think is inevitable this week, if 311 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:31.980 we're going to see the time war, it needs to be, it needs to be 312 00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:34.440 kind of made visible. 313 00:15:34.500 --> 00:15:40.139 And whenever Russell describes the time war in dialogue, he does 314 00:15:40.139 --> 00:15:45.419 it in a really sort of strange poetic way and things happen that 315 00:15:45.419 --> 00:15:47.399 you can't even picture or understand. 316 00:15:47.460 --> 00:15:48.419 Intangible. 317 00:15:48.419 --> 00:15:50.039 It's amorphous. 318 00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:52.080 Yeah, it's certainly incomprehensible. 319 00:15:52.139 --> 00:15:57.899 And what Milford does is he really kind of just brings it down to 320 00:15:57.899 --> 00:16:01.559 the sort of horrible space guns thing. 321 00:16:01.620 --> 00:16:06.240 You know, the Time Lords have just been, you know, they've been 322 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.120 brought so low that they're just sort of firing big guns at people 323 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:10.500 and that sort of thing. 324 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:13.379 And like, I think you lose something. 325 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:18.659 I love Russell's version of the time war, but I think that Moffatt 326 00:16:18.659 --> 00:16:19.620 has to make the change. 327 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.559 And of course, the other thing that he dumps, and we'll talk more 328 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:26.519 about this tomorrow, is the idea that the time lords were evil and 329 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:29.279 as evil as the Daleks. 330 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:32.820 You know, this is a conflict, but we're meant to think that Cass 331 00:16:32.820 --> 00:16:35.519 is mistaken. about the doctor. 332 00:16:35.580 --> 00:16:39.059 But in the end of time, part one and two. 333 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:43.740 The Time Lords are a worse threat than the Daleks, because they 334 00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:46.379 want to kill everyone, essentially, at this point. 335 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:05.099 Apparently, this was all shot in sort of very, very much secrecy. 336 00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:10.200 I think it was maybe a 2 day shoot, possibly even a one, and so 337 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:14.339 you know, Paul Bagan was whisked off to Cardiff. with a code name 338 00:17:14.339 --> 00:17:17.700 for the production turned up and he's like, there was no costume 339 00:17:17.700 --> 00:17:18.180 fitting. 340 00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:19.319 They just had the costume there. 341 00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:20.460 Somehow they had my measurements. 342 00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:22.680 I don't know how that happened, but... 343 00:17:22.740 --> 00:17:23.640 Just very small. 344 00:17:23.700 --> 00:17:24.539 Yes, that's right. 345 00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:25.079 Yeah. 346 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:33.839 No, like the 1st Doctor Who convention I went to with Rod, it was 347 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:40.680 Davidson, Colin Baker, Silv, and McGann, and Rob was like, oh, well 348 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:42.900 you know, I knew Peter and Colin were tall, and I knew Silv for 349 00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:43.140 sure. 350 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:44.579 I didn't know Paul was short. 351 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:45.599 They hid that in the movie. 352 00:17:46.619 --> 00:17:48.000 Yeah. 353 00:17:48.059 --> 00:17:52.380 In an interview, when he was talking about his costume, Paul said 354 00:17:52.380 --> 00:17:53.579 that he's one of his brothers. 355 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:55.619 He says, my brother reckoned I look like Frodo. 356 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:56.579 He's not wrong. 357 00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:57.180 No. 358 00:17:57.180 --> 00:17:59.819 The slightly shaggy hair in the little waistcoat. 359 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:01.500 I mean, it's a vast improvement, isn't it? 360 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:05.940 The telly movie has the doctor's look being like something 361 00:18:05.940 --> 00:18:10.019 Americans would have enjoyed more than we would, I think. 362 00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:13.799 I think the costume is not good in the movie and obviously that 363 00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:14.460 wig. 364 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:17.940 I mean, he would just not have come back, would he have been 365 00:18:17.940 --> 00:18:19.259 forced to wear that again? 366 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:20.279 That was just... 367 00:18:20.339 --> 00:18:22.019 That was part of his gum contract, wasn't it? 368 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:23.220 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 369 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:25.740 No wigs. written into all his contract. 370 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:29.220 So he's, I mean, I think he looks really good. 371 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:33.240 And he looks, you know, like he's aged well, hasn't he? 372 00:18:33.299 --> 00:18:34.559 Yeah, yeah. 373 00:18:34.619 --> 00:18:37.799 Yeah, I mean, he's I mean, he's 54 in this. 374 00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:39.960 Um, and that's that's a good look. 375 00:18:40.019 --> 00:18:41.880 Paul is really bloody handsome man. 376 00:18:41.940 --> 00:18:44.460 If you see him in Witnall, especially the last, there's like a 377 00:18:44.460 --> 00:18:47.579 last shot where he goes. he's all sort of smartened himself off to 378 00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:49.140 go and sell out and all this kind of stuff. 379 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:51.839 And there's just a side profile of him when he puts on this fedora 380 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:52.259 hat. 381 00:18:52.259 --> 00:18:54.660 And you just really see, he's a beautiful man. 382 00:18:54.779 --> 00:18:57.059 I mean, he's a really, really good looking man and he's aged 383 00:18:57.059 --> 00:19:01.740 incredibly well and I've seen him at 61 or 2 as he is now and he's 384 00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:03.000 still, he's a fine looking man. 385 00:19:03.059 --> 00:19:03.900 No 2 ways about it. 386 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:04.920 Yeah. 387 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:09.000 Yeah, and he does come back this week again. 388 00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:11.220 Is he briefly in the five-ish doctor's reboot? 389 00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:11.819 Yes, he is. 390 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:16.019 So this thing that we're about to experience this kind of week or 391 00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:20.220 so of Doctor Who literally has every living doctor involved 392 00:19:20.220 --> 00:19:21.059 doesn't it? 393 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.059 It's very generous, I think. 394 00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:25.559 There's something really warm about it. 395 00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:29.220 And I think, you know, if you tried to shovel everyone into the 396 00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:33.839 same 70 minute special, it would have been just intolerable, but 397 00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:38.160 instead just having a huge week of exciting Doctor Who things 398 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:42.299 happen where everyone gets to, you know, do their party piece at 399 00:19:42.299 --> 00:19:43.500 some point is pretty gray. 400 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:49.019 Yeah, that's that's exactly it because, you know, in in the 401 00:19:49.019 --> 00:19:52.799 special itself, you're going to have Matt and David, and 402 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:55.920 eventually Tom at the end, and John Hurt. 403 00:19:55.980 --> 00:20:01.980 You've got Paul doing this, you've got Silv, Colin and Pete doing 404 00:20:01.980 --> 00:20:03.420 the five-ish doctors reboot. 405 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:07.619 And even at the time, Eccleston gave an interview saying, I wish 406 00:20:07.619 --> 00:20:09.839 everyone really well, I was offered it. 407 00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:12.779 I declined, but, you know, it was all very respectful and there's 408 00:20:12.779 --> 00:20:14.279 no animosity and I hope it all goes well. 409 00:20:14.339 --> 00:20:17.519 So even though Eccleston didn't contribute to any of the stories. 410 00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:21.480 He said, yep, they're in them and I'm really glad it's happening 411 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:22.440 and I was asked. 412 00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:25.920 I also think there's something to terrifically generous about 413 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:30.900 giving Paul's doctor a regeneration scene and some final words and 414 00:20:30.900 --> 00:20:31.500 all of that. 415 00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:38.339 And it is, it just reminds you that Moffatt is just a full on fan 416 00:20:38.339 --> 00:20:40.920 you know, like just a Doctor Who fan. 417 00:20:40.980 --> 00:20:45.240 And that gap mattered, I think. 418 00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:49.079 And, you know, in the in the day of the doctor, we'll get John 419 00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:53.160 Hurt to Christopher Eccleston sort of regenerating as well. 420 00:20:53.220 --> 00:20:57.720 So he's filling in those gaps as part of this bigger project of 421 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:02.700 kind of reclaiming classic Doctor Who and making it, you know 422 00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:06.720 putting it on the same footing as the new show. 423 00:21:07.259 --> 00:21:10.619 And so we ended last season with little appearances from all of 424 00:21:10.619 --> 00:21:11.400 the doctors. 425 00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:17.880 We will end the special with a big shot with all 12 of them. 426 00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:20.220 We're going to get Gallifrey back properly. 427 00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:25.319 All of those things are happening in order to kind of, in order to 428 00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:27.059 heal that gap, I think. 429 00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:31.920 And I think that's a really generous project to suddenly imbue 430 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:36.240 this show, which is at this point in its sort of 8th or ninth year 431 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:42.000 to give it an additional giant backstory that is really properly 432 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:46.799 part of it, you know, and and the other way around, you know, to 433 00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:51.599 celebrate what brought us here, including the 1st 26 years of the 434 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:52.079 program. 435 00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:53.819 I think it's really tremendous. 436 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:58.380 Yeah, and I think the fact that there's so much, like this is, it's 437 00:21:58.380 --> 00:22:02.579 6 minutes and 50 seconds long. you know, that's so short, but it 438 00:22:02.579 --> 00:22:05.940 does so much in a tiny spell, like exactly as you said, he just 439 00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:09.059 gives us those things we need, a seeing Paul McGann and the 8th 440 00:22:09.059 --> 00:22:13.140 doctor, seeing that regeneration, tying it all up, you know, with 441 00:22:13.140 --> 00:22:15.660 some stuff at the time all there with this sort of shorthand 442 00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:19.319 exactly the right shorthand of the science magic stuff of time 443 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:21.000 lords and the sisterhood. 444 00:22:21.059 --> 00:22:23.400 It's like, I think it's really good. 445 00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:26.400 I think this is one of his best stories and best scripts, I 446 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:26.700 honestly do. 447 00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:29.160 Because it's very concise. 448 00:22:29.220 --> 00:22:31.619 There is humour in there, but there isn't time for too much 449 00:22:31.619 --> 00:22:33.359 trickery and stuff. 450 00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:38.220 It's taking it seriously, but it's still fun. you know, That's 451 00:22:38.220 --> 00:22:38.819 that's great. 452 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:41.640 And I think for some people, this is one of the, I mean, some 453 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:43.980 people have said that the 5-ish doctors reboot. is their favourite 454 00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:45.720 anniversary thing. 455 00:22:45.779 --> 00:22:47.700 And I think for some people this would have been, and probably 456 00:22:47.700 --> 00:22:49.980 still is, their favourite bit when they think back to the 457 00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:51.660 anniversary. some people's minds go to this. 458 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:54.059 And I think what you're saying, Nathan, is right. 459 00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:56.819 I think they were very generous and I think whatever you're 460 00:22:56.819 --> 00:23:00.180 wherever you are in the series, there is something for you in that 461 00:23:00.180 --> 00:23:03.299 week. you know, there really is. 462 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:08.099 And on that as well, Conrad, with, you know, there's something 463 00:23:08.099 --> 00:23:09.900 that can be a favourite for everyone. 464 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:14.400 Well, something Doctor Who fans love doing is ranking things. 465 00:23:14.579 --> 00:23:16.440 Sorry, what did you say? 466 00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:19.019 Ranking, ranking with an R. 467 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:22.259 But, you know, so it's like, oh, well, is day of the doctor 1st or 468 00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:24.900 is night of the doctor 1st or is the five-ish doctor's reboot 469 00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:25.500 first? 470 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:28.200 And I think maybe we found the purpose of the last day. 471 00:23:30.900 --> 00:23:33.960 So everyone can... at the bottom. 472 00:23:34.019 --> 00:23:35.640 Oh, okay, fair enough. 473 00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:40.140 I have heard a rumour somewhere that the last day was concocted 474 00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:44.039 between the night of the doctor being released early because of 475 00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:48.180 the leak and the anniversary special because they're like, we need 476 00:23:48.180 --> 00:23:51.539 to put out something as part of the promotional strategy. 477 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:54.960 Let's get some actors in and da da. don't know if that's true. 478 00:23:55.019 --> 00:23:59.819 I don't know if that was always bland or what, but that could 479 00:23:59.819 --> 00:24:00.960 certainly have been true. 480 00:24:02.099 --> 00:24:06.480 Something I find so interesting about this is, of course, after 481 00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:13.380 the telemovie, there were approximately 75 different continuities 482 00:24:13.380 --> 00:24:14.519 for the 8th doctor. 483 00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:19.920 So there was the Radio Times comic strip, the Doctor Who magazine 484 00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:24.720 comic strip, the BBC books and Big Finish. 485 00:24:24.779 --> 00:24:25.500 Yeah. 486 00:24:25.500 --> 00:24:29.400 And this story basically decides, yeah, Big Finish is the one that 487 00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:29.880 happened. 488 00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:34.380 Yeah, now that was a moment, wasn't it? 489 00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:36.720 That was one of the biggest things that came out of it. 490 00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:39.420 It was just like, oh, wait, we're doing that now, aren't we? 491 00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:42.720 And it's, I was trying to look back at how many times they've done 492 00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:42.960 it. 493 00:24:43.019 --> 00:24:45.599 And, you know, we're going to have to use the C word. 494 00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:46.859 We have to talk about canon. 495 00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:48.180 Like, you can't get through this. 496 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:49.980 I try as you might. 497 00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:52.859 It's a made-up television program by stressed out writers just 498 00:24:52.859 --> 00:24:55.019 trying to put a kid show out every so often. 499 00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:56.460 It's you know. 500 00:24:56.519 --> 00:25:02.160 But like, you know, it's that was a huge part of of what you heard 501 00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:02.400 about it. 502 00:25:02.460 --> 00:25:04.980 I think, like, you got to remember at the time, because it's so, I 503 00:25:04.980 --> 00:25:07.920 think, another thing that 50s did was like, it really, we all got 504 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:10.680 used to, through the merchandise into publicity, we all got used 505 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:12.359 to seeing all the doctors in a row. 506 00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:16.140 And when we just totally assume now, you know, we're used to 507 00:25:16.140 --> 00:25:17.400 seeing the lineup. 508 00:25:17.460 --> 00:25:21.900 But at the time, I mean, in, it was only in 2007 that the new 509 00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:25.500 series acknowledged the 8th doctor when they put him in that 510 00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:27.779 journal of impossible things of human nature. 511 00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:30.660 I remember at the time, it was a huge... 512 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:32.640 Oh my god, okay, that does mean he actually exists. 513 00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:34.319 We are talking about the TV movie now. 514 00:25:34.380 --> 00:25:36.779 It's like, because we forget this now, but actually at the time 515 00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:40.559 the Paul McGann doesn't count thing was really... 516 00:25:40.619 --> 00:25:41.759 It's in queer as folk. 517 00:25:41.819 --> 00:25:44.279 You remember that... 518 00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:47.160 The whole plot hinges on Paul McGann doesn't count. 519 00:25:47.220 --> 00:25:48.059 That's right. 520 00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:50.339 That's right It nearly does, actually. 521 00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:54.599 It's very close to the reason why he breaks up with Peter O'Brien 522 00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:54.839 I think. 523 00:25:55.019 --> 00:25:58.019 So that is a thing, isn't it? 524 00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:02.339 And so what they've done, because that doctor had so little 525 00:26:02.339 --> 00:26:06.359 television, and because he couldn't reflect back on an era, which 526 00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:11.339 is sometimes the thing that we do before a regeneration happens, we 527 00:26:11.339 --> 00:26:17.220 talk about the version of Doctor Who that McGann himself was 528 00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:17.819 involved in. 529 00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:22.500 So McGann doesn't act in the books or the comic streaps, his 530 00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:24.720 images there, but the thing that he actually produced. 531 00:26:24.779 --> 00:26:29.279 And so the companions that he had actually acted with before get 532 00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:30.240 name checked. 533 00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:37.319 And I think that's, again, there has sometimes been a sort of 534 00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:39.000 defensiveness around big finish. 535 00:26:39.059 --> 00:26:42.359 You know, big finish wasn't allowed to touch new series concepts 536 00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:46.200 for a while and there were all kinds of rules about making sure 537 00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:52.079 that it didn't kind of damage the brand or do anything to the 538 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:52.859 brand. 539 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:57.480 And here we have the parent show actually reaching out and 540 00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:03.240 including big finish into its kind of orbit. 541 00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:05.759 And I think I really, I think that's a really generous thing 542 00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:06.240 again. 543 00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:12.059 It is one of the most significant things that Moffat does, as 544 00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:18.420 showrunner, is not just canonise Big Finish in the main show. 545 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:24.779 He also loosens the, the, the, hold that the BBC has on the 546 00:27:24.779 --> 00:27:28.920 license for the new series, which is has, you know, whatever you 547 00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:34.259 think of some of those new series box sets has been a good thing 548 00:27:34.259 --> 00:27:35.099 for the show. 549 00:27:35.700 --> 00:27:38.519 River song snogging Colin Baker. 550 00:27:38.579 --> 00:27:39.180 I'm here for it. 551 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:40.200 Oh my god. 552 00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:43.140 Oh my god. not sure I am. 553 00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:45.599 Because it actually works. 554 00:27:45.660 --> 00:27:48.660 Like, you think it won't work and it really does. 555 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:02.339 Also, I think it was during that week. 556 00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:06.480 Well, within a week or two, Doctor Who magazine had a 50th, you 557 00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:08.460 know, had a party for the 50th anniversary. 558 00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:11.759 And I remember I was at the bar and this thing had just aired, I 559 00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:12.059 think. 560 00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:14.460 I think it might have been between night of the doctor and the day 561 00:28:14.460 --> 00:28:15.720 of the doctor, but it was certainly in that week. 562 00:28:15.779 --> 00:28:18.299 And I was chatting to somebody at the bar and you know what 563 00:28:18.299 --> 00:28:20.819 rumours are like going around and that had just happened, so 564 00:28:20.819 --> 00:28:22.920 people coming up to me going, oh, look, you're cannon, you're 565 00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:24.059 Canada, which is very alarming. 566 00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:27.599 I went to see a 3D screening of Day of the Doctor because they 567 00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:29.400 released it at the cinema and I thought, you know what, I'd like 568 00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:31.440 to go and see it in 3D. And I was just sitting in this dark and 569 00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:33.539 drum and it sort of people were shuffling to the seats before me 570 00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:33.779 somebody. 571 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:36.299 I don't know why he hissed at me in the dark, you cannon. 572 00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:37.619 It's very annoying. 573 00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:41.160 In a darkened cinema. 574 00:28:41.220 --> 00:28:42.660 That's an alarming thing in Brighton. 575 00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:44.579 That's an alarming thing to hiss anybody. 576 00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:48.660 But, you know, people so people were coming up to me at the bar 577 00:28:48.660 --> 00:28:50.519 and I was like, oh, my God, you know, this is fun. 578 00:28:50.579 --> 00:28:51.359 We're chatting about it. 579 00:28:51.420 --> 00:28:54.299 Somebody said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, Paul wanted to do that. 580 00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:56.339 And I was like, hm, okay. 581 00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:58.500 And there were just different rumours going around about how it 582 00:28:58.500 --> 00:28:58.920 came about. 583 00:28:58.980 --> 00:29:02.279 So I thought, I'd had a couple and I still thought, well, Moffatt's 584 00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:03.960 on the other side of the room, I'm going to go and ask. 585 00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:05.579 So it walked. 586 00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:07.859 So just walked on the side of the half, right, this is my moment. 587 00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:09.480 So I walked to the other side of the room, I tapped her on the 588 00:29:09.480 --> 00:29:10.500 shoulder and said, oh, hi. 589 00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:13.680 So you did tonight, the doctor thing, and you name loads of big 590 00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:15.299 Finnish companions and like, I was one of them. 591 00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:16.680 Like, how did that come about? 592 00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:18.900 Like, you know, yeah, how did that come about? 593 00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:21.299 And he just said, because we're very nice. 594 00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:25.259 Exactly like that. 595 00:29:25.380 --> 00:29:26.819 Exactly like that. 596 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:29.759 He really isn't, is he? 597 00:29:29.819 --> 00:29:30.779 Thanks very much. 598 00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:33.779 What was that? 599 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:36.119 He's not really very nice. 600 00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:37.680 No, no. 601 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.259 Yeah, he said it in a, he said it exactly like that. 602 00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:42.480 So I just walked by the bar and we'll never know. 603 00:29:42.539 --> 00:29:43.019 So there you go. 604 00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:44.339 There's an exclusive. 605 00:29:44.819 --> 00:29:49.140 I always promised Nathan to come on with like a half baked sort of 606 00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:51.299 peripheral showbist story and that was that one. 607 00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:52.920 That's the one for this episode. 608 00:29:52.980 --> 00:29:56.220 So, yeah, I think the other significant thing is worth saying is 609 00:29:56.220 --> 00:29:59.819 that the name, like Kerry is that name which is, you know, plagued 610 00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:01.500 with apostrophes and Z's all over the place. 611 00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:07.079 It was originally called Quiz, KRIZ, until it was pointed out that 612 00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.220 Quiz is the name of the dying insect mutt from the brain of 613 00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:11.880 Rubius. 614 00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:13.140 There we go. 615 00:30:13.140 --> 00:30:13.980 No sisterhoods. 616 00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:15.539 There's magic in this brew, I tell you. 617 00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:18.180 It all ties back to the brain of Morbius. 618 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:18.660 There you go. 619 00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:19.440 Bit of trivia. 620 00:30:19.500 --> 00:30:23.400 We are sitting here with a Charlie Day conspiracy wall with a 621 00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:28.440 picture of Joe Martin and George Galancio and Philip Hinchcliffe 622 00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:33.000 in a funny wig and a healer and a heaker, same person. 623 00:30:33.059 --> 00:30:34.319 He knows. 624 00:30:34.859 --> 00:30:39.779 And actually, there is a moment in it when the doctor says it sees 625 00:30:39.779 --> 00:30:42.000 a healer and he looks at it and goes, is that you? 626 00:30:42.059 --> 00:30:45.240 Every time I rewatch it, I always think it's specifically 627 00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:46.859 basically what I'm saying is that Zoheka. 628 00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:48.000 That is full of... 629 00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:48.960 That's absolutely her. 630 00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:52.259 I know he says, oh, the sisterhood, but there's something in that 631 00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:54.960 moment I've just decided that is whatever. 632 00:30:55.019 --> 00:30:56.880 And here's another thing that I can't quite figure out. 633 00:30:56.940 --> 00:30:59.039 The other thing, of course, that Moffatt knows about Brainer 634 00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:02.460 Morbius, is that planes get other than planes, spaceships crash 635 00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:04.619 you know, the Sargasso Sea sort of thing. 636 00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:07.559 And I sort of, so I think in the brain of Morbius, it was the 637 00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:11.400 sisterhood bringing those down to by making them crash to stop 638 00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:12.900 people stealing the elixir or something. 639 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:13.980 I don't know. 640 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:15.660 I just couldn't remember who was doing that. 641 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:19.500 And in this story, I was like, why did it of all the places to 642 00:31:19.500 --> 00:31:19.859 crash? 643 00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:24.059 Like, is that, are we supposed to think that's a coincidence? 644 00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:27.720 are they bringing the ship down to get the doctor there? 645 00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:31.799 I don't know, because, I mean, this is just going into, this is 646 00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:33.539 this is why it's a great choice to do something like this because 647 00:31:33.539 --> 00:31:34.680 it precisely does this to us. 648 00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:35.759 It turns all insane. 649 00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:40.200 But like, you know, but just taking the story on face value, you 650 00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:43.859 know, I think she says, oh, you know, we all knew in our bones 651 00:31:43.859 --> 00:31:45.119 that one day he would return. 652 00:31:45.180 --> 00:31:49.559 So it doesn't sound like it was them, which makes you wonder, and 653 00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:51.839 Robert Holmes loved to do this and all this, you know, in 3 654 00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:55.859 doctors, Brain of Morbius, 2 doctors, Mysterious Planet. 655 00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:58.319 He always loved to have the Time Lords placing the doctor. 656 00:31:58.380 --> 00:32:00.720 You know, he does start the brain in Morbius. 657 00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:03.000 He's coming out raging at the time that's put him there. 658 00:32:03.059 --> 00:32:04.380 So there you go. 659 00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:06.180 There's a conspiracy thing there. 660 00:32:06.299 --> 00:32:09.119 But like, just in terms of if we're going to play Doctor Who is 661 00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:15.539 real, like, like, well, it's completely real. 662 00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:16.799 I'm here, James. 663 00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:19.799 I'm here. it's all fine So there we go. that's my that's my 664 00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:19.980 thing. 665 00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:20.519 I don't know. 666 00:32:20.579 --> 00:32:22.019 So basically I'm having it. 667 00:32:22.019 --> 00:32:25.619 In my head, I think the time lords crashed him there so that this 668 00:32:25.619 --> 00:32:28.440 is could fit him and then put dual. 669 00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:30.119 I don't know, does that even make sense? 670 00:32:30.180 --> 00:32:30.960 Who knows? 671 00:32:31.019 --> 00:32:32.220 It actually does. 672 00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:35.400 It may have been Cardinal Alystra played by Jacqueline Pierce. 673 00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:37.980 Yes, who I've never heard of. 674 00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:39.960 Big Finish makes a big deal out of that. 675 00:32:40.019 --> 00:32:43.980 And, you know, you see later in series 9 that they have been 676 00:32:43.980 --> 00:32:44.579 working together. 677 00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:52.380 I think the recreation of Khan that this episode does and it's got 678 00:32:52.380 --> 00:32:56.460 just one set and one kind of Matte painting. 679 00:32:56.519 --> 00:32:58.319 I think it's it looks really great. 680 00:32:58.380 --> 00:33:01.559 Like it's the same colouring and stuff. 681 00:33:01.619 --> 00:33:04.440 I mean, the great thing about Brain of Morbius is it looks like 682 00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:07.559 BBC season of Shakespeare production. 683 00:33:07.619 --> 00:33:11.279 Like there's really no attempt to make the sets look realistic at 684 00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:11.519 all. 685 00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:13.259 And that's fine. 686 00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:16.980 I think it really works for the story, but just the colouring that 687 00:33:16.980 --> 00:33:21.420 that exterior, you know, the exterior of the planet and just the 688 00:33:21.420 --> 00:33:23.220 general kind of feel of it. 689 00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:27.539 It's taking something that was a little bit low rent and a little 690 00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:31.740 bit low effort and making it properly epic just for a couple of 691 00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:32.279 seconds. 692 00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:35.700 I love how fake that looks. 693 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:37.859 Do you know what I mean? 694 00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:39.059 Like, it's so good. 695 00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:40.140 It's great. 696 00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:41.640 I love it. 697 00:33:41.700 --> 00:33:44.160 I mean, I bought it hook line and sinker when I was a kid. 698 00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:45.240 I still bought it now. 699 00:33:45.299 --> 00:33:48.839 I did see, I did, I was looking online at, just trying to look at 700 00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:51.660 like, look at Paul's costume and I found, there was a, there was 701 00:33:51.660 --> 00:33:53.640 it was obviously some doctor at doctor exhibition. 702 00:33:53.700 --> 00:33:56.039 I don't know if it was the doctor experience or what, but there is 703 00:33:56.039 --> 00:33:59.700 a picture of McGann's night of the doctor costume. next to what 704 00:33:59.700 --> 00:34:03.539 looks like Claire Higgins Ohela costume, but with one vital 705 00:34:03.539 --> 00:34:03.900 difference. 706 00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:08.940 She's wearing a hat and I'm not just talking a hat. 707 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:10.199 I'm talking the hat. 708 00:34:10.260 --> 00:34:14.280 The Maran full on the MT, you described it as the Victoria Sponge 709 00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:14.940 cake number. 710 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:16.199 I mean, I can put it. 711 00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:18.719 I can put it in the chat here, but I don't know if that's going to 712 00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:19.380 mess things up. 713 00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:19.980 I don't know. 714 00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:22.440 But there's a picture of that on there. 715 00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:25.440 And I'm trying to look like, did you make that specially, or if 716 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:27.719 you just put the, have you still got the original one on there? 717 00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:31.199 I'm choosing to believe it, Claire Higgins saw that and caused an 718 00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:34.920 almighty stick and demanded that on no way in hell was she 719 00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:35.340 wearing? 720 00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:37.920 went completely postal. 721 00:34:37.980 --> 00:34:40.679 The trailer was the Winnebago was shaking with fear, the windows 722 00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:45.420 blew as she unleashed all this elemental fury that she wasn't 723 00:34:45.420 --> 00:34:45.840 wearing that hat. 724 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:48.119 That's my story. 725 00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:48.539 Yeah. 726 00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:49.320 So there you go. 727 00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:50.099 The mystery of the hat. 728 00:34:50.340 --> 00:34:54.480 Maybe the set was so small that they couldn't, she couldn't wear 729 00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:56.099 the hat without shooting off the set. 730 00:34:58.019 --> 00:34:59.099 It is fine. 731 00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:00.599 I will send a photograph of it Yes. 732 00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:01.739 Sure. 733 00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:03.300 That's one for the show notes. 734 00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:05.940 I think also another thing worth mentioning is the actual, just 735 00:35:05.940 --> 00:35:08.940 about the how the regeneration happens because it is exactly that 736 00:35:08.940 --> 00:35:10.440 science and magic thing. 737 00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:12.059 And I think it's perfect. 738 00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:15.179 I think it's, I think it's exactly the right mixture to do. 739 00:35:15.179 --> 00:35:18.960 And also it slightly gives you that, you know, in the TV movie, he 740 00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:20.760 had that whole Frankenstein sequence. 741 00:35:20.820 --> 00:35:23.159 It all has, which is, I think, is appropriate because it is this 742 00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:26.940 kind of unnatural, you know, like thematically and it is this sort 743 00:35:26.940 --> 00:35:29.400 of unnaturally extended life that regeneration is. 744 00:35:29.460 --> 00:35:31.500 So I think Frankenstein is a good callback there. 745 00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:35.099 And here, you know, he gets the, you know, the smoking. 746 00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:35.820 Yeah, you know. 747 00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:37.800 It's a magic post challenge in the palace. 748 00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:39.239 A magic potion. 749 00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:40.679 Which another, here's another thing. 750 00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:44.219 Healer says, oh, I made, I took the liberty of preparing it 751 00:35:44.219 --> 00:35:44.639 myself. 752 00:35:44.699 --> 00:35:47.880 Like, so she so she might not have brought him there, but when she 753 00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:51.599 was like doing the potions, it suggests that she knew this had to 754 00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:51.780 happen. 755 00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:53.460 This is when she wanted to make him happen. 756 00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:56.219 And like, he has to drink this. this is the one he's got to 757 00:35:56.219 --> 00:35:56.400 drink. 758 00:35:56.460 --> 00:36:03.539 So Moffat Moffat later admitted that he had written that as it was 759 00:36:03.539 --> 00:36:07.440 actually just sugar or, you know, like it was nothing was fake. 760 00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:10.860 She just convinced the doctor he needed to be a warrior? 761 00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:12.780 Yeah, he says it's lemonade and dry ice. 762 00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:16.559 He says the amazing thing, which is he's the sort of thing I'm so 763 00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:18.179 glad he put in the book and not on the TV. 764 00:36:18.300 --> 00:36:20.639 That's exactly the thing he could have put in the TV show, which 765 00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:24.239 is luckily absent from this 6 minutes. 766 00:36:24.300 --> 00:36:28.860 When you were talking just now about the regeneration in the movie 767 00:36:28.860 --> 00:36:31.139 I remember Clayton Hickman talking about that on a documentary 768 00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:34.440 kind of going, you know, Silv is sitting there doing all the 769 00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:38.579 facial expressions, you know, and his mouth is trying to eat his 770 00:36:38.579 --> 00:36:39.900 own chin and what have you. 771 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:43.079 And then you fade it into Paul, who's just very slightly moving 772 00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:45.179 his cheek muscles going, oh, must I? 773 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:49.860 Now flash forward, 17 years, and McGann is perfectly comfortable 774 00:36:49.860 --> 00:36:51.719 going, Oh, oh, oh. 775 00:36:51.900 --> 00:36:54.480 They'll pull it in later in post. 776 00:36:54.539 --> 00:36:55.019 It's fine. 777 00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:55.739 You know. 778 00:36:56.760 --> 00:37:00.539 But it's funny, I show, because I can't see, because I've spent 779 00:37:00.539 --> 00:37:03.119 weeks, you know, locked in a room with Paul McGann, you know 780 00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:04.019 watching him act. 781 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:04.679 And so it's interesting. 782 00:37:04.739 --> 00:37:08.159 I can't, I know he's good and I can see he's really good, but I 783 00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:09.360 know how he's good. 784 00:37:09.420 --> 00:37:11.219 I can see which lines like the knitting one. 785 00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:13.679 Like, the lines he's less keen on, he'll throw away. 786 00:37:13.739 --> 00:37:16.079 I can see which I can see what he's done. 787 00:37:16.139 --> 00:37:17.880 I know what he's doing at every moment. 788 00:37:17.940 --> 00:37:20.039 You see which muscles he's using? 789 00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:23.159 Kind of, he's being operated from the back. 790 00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:33.960 So, I showed it to my partner last night, who had seen it before 791 00:37:33.960 --> 00:37:36.360 back in the day, and just said, Can you just look at this 792 00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:37.980 objectively and tell me what you think of it? 793 00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:41.280 And I particularly wanted, like, what do you think of him? 794 00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:44.519 And he, you know, he just watched it through and just said, like 795 00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:45.360 he's really good. 796 00:37:45.420 --> 00:37:47.760 He goes, the 1st thing he said, he goes, he's very gentle. 797 00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:50.760 And I was like, oh, okay, that's interesting. 798 00:37:50.820 --> 00:37:52.199 He goes, yeah, he's very quiet. 799 00:37:52.260 --> 00:37:53.460 And I was like, oh, okay. 800 00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:54.840 He went, not like these two. 801 00:37:54.900 --> 00:37:58.019 And he just pointed to the TV, which just had the still of Tennant 802 00:37:58.019 --> 00:37:58.800 and Smith on there. 803 00:37:58.860 --> 00:38:03.179 And I was like, oh, that's interesting actually because, you know 804 00:38:03.179 --> 00:38:06.539 he's he's an interesting doctor because he's very different to all 805 00:38:06.539 --> 00:38:06.900 the others. 806 00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:10.260 Like he was probably, I mean, no, Davidson wasn't a character 807 00:38:10.260 --> 00:38:14.579 actor, but typically Doctor Who had been a character actor and he 808 00:38:14.579 --> 00:38:15.420 absolutely isn't. 809 00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:18.239 He's a, I don't know, what do you call him? 810 00:38:18.300 --> 00:38:20.579 But the perception of Paul, I think, especially with fans, and I 811 00:38:20.579 --> 00:38:22.079 think it's why he's partly so loved by fans. 812 00:38:22.139 --> 00:38:23.579 He's got this kind of credibility. 813 00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:24.900 He's got this call about him. 814 00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:26.579 He's sort of like not one of us. 815 00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:29.699 He's he's not that crazy grandfather figure. 816 00:38:29.820 --> 00:38:32.940 He's quite cool. you know, incredible. 817 00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:34.320 But he's really good. 818 00:38:34.380 --> 00:38:37.260 I think that's worth saying like he is and he's really good in 819 00:38:37.260 --> 00:38:37.500 this. 820 00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:40.260 I think he does, like he does a really good job and I think he's 821 00:38:40.260 --> 00:38:41.400 why he sort of liked so much. 822 00:38:41.460 --> 00:38:45.059 Also, he has the advantage of, or not the advantage, but not 823 00:38:45.059 --> 00:38:47.099 having had much screen time. 824 00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:49.920 We can all just project everything we like on him because he's 825 00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:50.940 hardly, you know. 826 00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:51.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 827 00:38:51.900 --> 00:38:55.559 Any, you know, whatever you think of the TV movie, we've never 828 00:38:55.559 --> 00:38:59.340 actually seen him sort of tank in something or try desperately to 829 00:38:59.340 --> 00:39:01.679 salvage something from terrible material or anything. 830 00:39:01.980 --> 00:39:04.739 So, and also, and this bit I don't know. 831 00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:07.739 Like, I think, I think, um, if I've got this right, like plan A 832 00:39:07.739 --> 00:39:11.699 for the anniversary, which it was going to be, presumably, in an 833 00:39:11.699 --> 00:39:15.000 ideal world, Eccleston Tennant and Smith, I'm guessing. 834 00:39:15.059 --> 00:39:17.699 So, uh, Eccleston's out of the equation. 835 00:39:17.699 --> 00:39:20.219 I don't know if this is true or not, but there was some, there was 836 00:39:20.219 --> 00:39:23.099 the sort of common thing is like they wanted to have Paul instead 837 00:39:23.099 --> 00:39:26.219 as the war doctor, but the BBC didn't feel he was big enough or 838 00:39:26.219 --> 00:39:28.139 did they just wanted a big or different star. 839 00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:29.760 So that's how they got John Hurt. 840 00:39:29.820 --> 00:39:31.260 I don't know if that's true or not. 841 00:39:31.739 --> 00:39:36.119 I think either way, if they, even if they had had Eccleston, like 842 00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:38.460 Knight of the Doctor would have absolutely happened in an ideal 843 00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:39.840 world, you'd have... 844 00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:43.500 Yes, all of them generating into Eccleston, I think. 845 00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:47.820 I remember when we 1st saw John Heard at the end of name of the 846 00:39:47.820 --> 00:39:52.199 doctor, and I thought that one of the things that we lose is the 847 00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:56.039 idea that one of our doctors, you know, one of the doctors that 848 00:39:56.039 --> 00:40:00.719 we've watched on TV and loved did this terrible thing. 849 00:40:00.780 --> 00:40:05.699 And instead it becomes a person that we've never heard of who did 850 00:40:05.699 --> 00:40:06.059 that. 851 00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:11.400 And I think, like, I think it works, and again, we'll talk more 852 00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:12.239 about this tomorrow. 853 00:40:12.300 --> 00:40:16.860 I think that John Hurt plays an important role. 854 00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:20.159 He brings something to the role that wouldn't have been available 855 00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:23.099 to Eccleston, I think. 856 00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:27.119 But I do think that sort of dissociation's a little bit of a 857 00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:27.480 shame. 858 00:40:27.539 --> 00:40:32.219 And clearly, Moffatt, You know, Moffatt loves Russell's Doctor 859 00:40:32.219 --> 00:40:32.760 Who. 860 00:40:32.820 --> 00:40:37.440 It's very, very clear, and he constantly picks up on running gags 861 00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:43.559 that Russell's introduced or plays with things that Russell hasn't 862 00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:45.360 had the chance to kind of pick up on again. 863 00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:48.059 But I don't think... 864 00:40:48.059 --> 00:40:52.559 Well, Queen Elizabeth I. I'm thinking the fact that nothing 865 00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:57.119 interesting happened this year, this Christmas in London, as far 866 00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:00.300 as the doctor remembers, except that there was a giant cyber king 867 00:41:00.300 --> 00:41:01.739 stopping all over the place. 868 00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:06.360 You know, like, so there've been things that he picks up on. 869 00:41:06.420 --> 00:41:11.760 But I don't think that he likes, what the doctor does, like making 870 00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:16.559 the doctor kill all of the time lords is something that... 871 00:41:16.619 --> 00:41:20.699 Yeah, he thinks that that was a bad call, I think. 872 00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:25.920 And so I think part of the motivation for kind of healing that 873 00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:30.000 rift this week is because he doesn't think the doctor would have 874 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:31.500 made that decision. 875 00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:36.119 And so he uses his power as showrunner to make sure that he did. 876 00:41:58.380 --> 00:42:01.739 Wealthy listener, that's all we have time for, for now. 877 00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:05.699 We'll be back tomorrow to celebrate Doctor Who's 50th and 59th 878 00:42:05.699 --> 00:42:09.539 birthdays at the same time, with two episodes of Flight Through 879 00:42:09.539 --> 00:42:11.820 Entirety on the day of the doctor. 880 00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:15.900 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts 881 00:42:15.900 --> 00:42:19.019 and you can keep up with us at flights for entirety on Facebook, at 882 00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:23.340 FDE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, flightthroughentirety 883 00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:26.699 com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger 884 00:42:26.699 --> 00:42:31.199 Jody Interterterra, Maximum Power, and Untitled Star Trek 885 00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:31.679 project. 886 00:42:31.739 --> 00:42:35.699 Until next time, remember sitting at the front of the plane in the 887 00:42:35.699 --> 00:42:39.840 event of a crash means that you die several seconds earlier, which 888 00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:42.659 is more than made up for by the additional leg room. 889 00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:45.239 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 890 00:42:45.300 --> 00:42:45.900 Good night. 891 00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:46.739 Ta-ta. 892 00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:47.280 Good night. 893 00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:57.719 That was flight through entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley 894 00:42:57.719 --> 00:43:00.119 Breeman, Jones, James Selwood, and Conrad Westmas. 895 00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:02.460 Theme arrangements by Cameron Lamb. 896 00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:06.000 This episode, not like these 2, was recorded on the 23rd of July 897 00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:08.940 2022, and released on the 22nd of November. 898 00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:13.860 We'll see you tomorrow, of course, but in the meantime, don't 899 00:43:13.860 --> 00:43:18.179 forget to tune in to Disney Plus on the 22nd of November 2033 for 900 00:43:18.179 --> 00:43:21.840 the 70th anniversary prequel, in which Jody Whittaker returns 901 00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:25.739 unexpectedly to prevent Prime Minister for Lai Frishi Sunak from 902 00:43:25.739 --> 00:43:28.260 crashing Starship UK into the heart of the sun. 903 00:43:35.699 --> 00:43:38.099 I don't know where I'm going. 904 00:43:39.780 --> 00:43:41.940 Now that it's big finish. 905 00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:45.059 Cut that. 906 00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:46.559 Cut that. 907 00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:49.559 Sorry. 908 00:43:49.619 --> 00:43:51.539 Everyone's got a time war series now. 909 00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:53.280 Susan has a time war series now. 910 00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:55.860 Wow, is there the war, Susan? 911 00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:57.059 There's the war, Susan. 912 00:43:57.059 --> 00:44:02.099 With the war, Susan's war, and she goes to enlist the help of the 913 00:44:02.099 --> 00:44:02.579 censorites. 914 00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:03.480 Of course she does. 915 00:44:03.539 --> 00:44:08.940 I'm not joking That's a real genuine box set, and at this stage 916 00:44:08.940 --> 00:44:11.699 it's likely to be William Russell's last contribution to Doctor 917 00:44:11.699 --> 00:44:12.059 Who. 918 00:44:12.300 --> 00:44:13.739 Wow. 919 00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:18.659 The war, Susan. when you think about that. 920 00:44:23.219 --> 00:44:25.440 Who plays the war, Susan? 921 00:44:25.500 --> 00:44:26.639 Oh, it's still Carol Anne Ford? 922 00:44:26.699 --> 00:44:28.619 No, you have to get some big ass. 923 00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:29.760 That's the wars, Susan. 924 00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:32.400 Agent doesn't know the memory of the word no. 925 00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:35.159 It's always that thing with it's like John Heard. 926 00:44:35.219 --> 00:44:39.420 It's like he was a fucking cartoon dragon on Merlin every Sunday 927 00:44:39.420 --> 00:44:40.019 night. 928 00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:41.760 Like, it's not that big a coup. 929 00:44:41.820 --> 00:44:42.360 He'll do anything. 930 00:44:42.420 --> 00:44:43.559 Yeah, well, that's the thing. 931 00:44:43.619 --> 00:44:46.380 John Hurt said about doing Doctor Who. 932 00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:49.800 He said, the weird thing about acting is the more successful you 933 00:44:49.800 --> 00:44:55.019 are, the less people think you will do when he's like, if I'm 934 00:44:55.019 --> 00:44:58.500 interested in the project and you're going to pay me because I 935 00:44:58.500 --> 00:45:02.099 need to eat, of course I'll do it, you know, but he's like, you 936 00:45:02.099 --> 00:45:04.920 know, you win a couple of awards and suddenly people think, oh, no 937 00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:05.820 you don't want to do this thing. 938 00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:08.820 I want to have fun. 939 00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:11.639 I mean, he's going to be really good in it. 940 00:45:11.699 --> 00:45:15.300 We just see a tiny reflection of him in the car. 941 00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:18.960 Yeah, which I think is taken from an eye, Claudius, or from a BBC 942 00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:19.800 Shakespeare. 943 00:45:19.860 --> 00:45:21.059 Oh, crime and punishment. 944 00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:21.719 I beg your pardon. 945 00:45:21.780 --> 00:45:22.079 Thank you. 946 00:45:22.139 --> 00:45:24.960 It's Paul McCann's hand, though, apparently. 947 00:45:25.019 --> 00:45:26.280 So it's still Paul McGann. 948 00:45:26.340 --> 00:45:28.199 He's just regenerated from the neck up, apparently. 949 00:45:29.340 --> 00:45:32.820 It also says also available for hand monthly. 950 00:45:35.940 --> 00:45:37.559 Is that true? 951 00:45:37.619 --> 00:45:39.420 Do you know that from personal experience? 952 00:45:39.539 --> 00:45:40.860 That sounds a bit wrong. 953 00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:42.719 That's really wrong. 954 00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:45.539 I kept all of your life. 955 00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:48.179 I'm not even into this episode, Conrad. 956 00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:53.280 Oh, I'm so sorry. 957 00:45:53.340 --> 00:45:54.300 I didn't mean it like that. 958 00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:55.860 Cut to the test card. 959 00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:56.760 Just cut to the test card.