WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:26:49 1 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:49.979 Hello, dear listener and welcome back to Fly Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast. 2 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:53.520 Slightly more entertaining than spending 4 minutes knitting. 3 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:55.020 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:55.140 --> 00:00:56.280 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:56.340 --> 00:00:57.240 I'm James. 6 00:00:57.299 --> 00:00:58.740 I'm Conrad. 7 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:05.519 Well, it's Paul McGann's 54th birthday and on BBC iPlayer, the final episode of his era has just dropped. 8 00:01:05.640 --> 00:01:07.260 So, who lives? 9 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:10.799 Who dies, and who is unexpectedly canonised? 10 00:01:10.859 --> 00:01:17.159 Let's answer these questions as we discuss the day of the doctor prequel, The Knights of the Doctor. 11 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:51.420 I'm struggling to remember where I was and what was happening when I first watched this, and the big thing that I can't remember is, was I surprised by the Paul McGann reveal? 12 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:57.180 I got a text from somebody who was walking down the road and I just got a text saying, have you seen the Dr. 2 thing? 13 00:01:57.239 --> 00:01:58.200 And I was like, uh, no. 14 00:01:58.260 --> 00:01:59.640 And he's like, go home now and watch it. 15 00:01:59.700 --> 00:02:02.099 And when I saw it, and Paul was on there. 16 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:02.700 That was a shock. 17 00:02:02.819 --> 00:02:04.019 Like a total shock. 18 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:07.500 So yeah, no even whispers of it here, I don't think. 19 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:09.060 What about you? 20 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:09.719 Do you remember? 21 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:10.199 James? 22 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:13.680 I think someone had ruined it for me. 23 00:02:14.699 --> 00:02:22.800 Like, had literally gone, oh, so that Paul McGann mini said, I'm like, what? 24 00:02:25.979 --> 00:02:34.199 It was supposed to be released the day before. the anniversary and they brought it forward by more than a week. 25 00:02:34.259 --> 00:02:37.740 Uh, I believe, because it was about to be leaked. 26 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:38.580 Right. 27 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:39.180 Right. 28 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:48.360 And there was another minisode, like another prequel episode called The Last... which I did watch today and it's super forgettable. 29 00:02:48.539 --> 00:02:50.699 We're getting to a podcast on that. 30 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:52.860 No, no, there's nothing there. 31 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:54.479 We'd have been over by now, I think. 32 00:02:54.599 --> 00:02:56.280 So it's not very good. 33 00:02:56.340 --> 00:03:05.879 But I think this is actually pretty amazing for like a weird pre-publicity throwaway thing that's just going to end up as a DVD extra eventually. 34 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:10.560 I kind of like to think of it as the pre-credit scene for Dave the Doctor. 35 00:03:10.620 --> 00:03:12.599 Oh, okay. 36 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:13.080 Yeah. 37 00:03:13.139 --> 00:03:13.680 Nice. 38 00:03:13.740 --> 00:03:35.879 The funny thing is, I don't remember watching it at home, and I think where I actually watched it was, um, I was out visiting my parents, and my brother must have just come up from Melbourne because we were in my parents' car coming back from the airport, and I think I saw a notification for it on Twitter. 39 00:03:35.939 --> 00:03:42.960 And it was, and someone had retweeted it just saying, watch this before you read the rest of Twitter. basically. 40 00:03:43.020 --> 00:03:47.580 And so I'm like, okay, I'll just watch it in the car. 41 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:48.479 I've got my headphones. 42 00:03:48.539 --> 00:03:59.159 And I watched it and got to the moment of probably not the one you're expecting. rewound it, leaned over to my brother, gave him a headphone and said, you have to watch this with me. 43 00:03:59.219 --> 00:04:00.419 He was driving. 44 00:04:03.479 --> 00:04:05.039 And we watched it. 45 00:04:05.099 --> 00:04:07.560 And sort of we got to the end of it. 46 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:09.719 And he went, he went, Oh, that was John Hurt at the end. 47 00:04:09.780 --> 00:04:12.599 And I'm like, and I'm like, yes, that was your takeaway. 48 00:04:12.659 --> 00:04:13.259 Yeah, yeah. 49 00:04:13.319 --> 00:04:15.599 Well, then he goes, who was the guy at the beginning? 50 00:04:16.980 --> 00:04:18.420 Wow. 51 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:20.639 And I had a like Paul McGann. 52 00:04:20.699 --> 00:04:22.800 From the Doctor Who movie. 53 00:04:22.860 --> 00:04:24.300 Oh, he's looking good. 54 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:25.920 I didn't have a moustache. 55 00:04:25.980 --> 00:04:32.220 No, not Peter Cushing. reanimated corpse of Peter Gushing. 56 00:04:32.339 --> 00:04:34.560 Patient to look like Paul McGann. 57 00:04:34.620 --> 00:04:49.019 Yes, that's right Eating in the novelisation of Day of the Doctor, Moffatt makes it clear that it is actually Peter Cushing in Rogue One, who is a friend of the doctors, and the doctor told Peter Cushing about his adventures, and they made a film of them. 58 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:57.540 And then he picked up Peter Cushing and transported him into the future to star in a Star Wars film again. which I just think one of my absolutely delight. 59 00:04:57.600 --> 00:04:59.339 Oh, I think the true comedy. 60 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:00.660 No, no, seriously. 61 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:01.680 I haven't read it. 62 00:05:01.740 --> 00:05:02.879 It's really good. 63 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:07.319 Isn't it written like out of order? 64 00:05:07.379 --> 00:05:08.579 What he does? 65 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:10.560 It's Moffat, everything's out. 66 00:05:10.620 --> 00:05:13.740 I mean, we might talk about this on tomorrow's episode, maybe. 67 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:31.199 But what he does is he narrates that scene in the tower with the 3 doctors in one room without resorting to any names for the doctors, like he doesn't do the the doctor 2 thing that Terence Deeks does in the in the 3 doctors novelisation. 68 00:05:31.259 --> 00:05:36.720 And he also tells that in chronological order in the order as they happen to the doctor. 69 00:05:36.779 --> 00:05:43.500 So 1st from Tenet's point of view, then from Smith, if you, then from Hertz point of view, it's very, very cleverly done. 70 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:47.279 There's not that much scope for that sort of thing in this episode. 71 00:05:47.339 --> 00:05:51.600 But there's some fun Moffatt sitcom stuff, I think, some funny lines. 72 00:05:52.199 --> 00:05:57.420 Yeah, like how are we going to the back of the ship because the front crashes first. think it through. 73 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:05.279 Like, yeah, we watched it tonight back to back with Dave the Doctor before coming down for recording and that got a big laugh from Rod. 74 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:13.079 I'm not sure about McGann's delivery of the Bring Me Some Knitting line, but it is absolutely moffity, isn't it? 75 00:06:13.139 --> 00:06:14.819 And it is the sort of thing that we had before. 76 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:23.160 I think the doctor says something about boiling an egg when he's given 12 minutes to live in the Big Bang, doesn't he? 77 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:23.759 Something like that. 78 00:06:23.819 --> 00:06:25.620 So it's the sort of thing that he's done before. 79 00:06:25.860 --> 00:06:38.279 And I think there's a Douglas Adams line somewhere in one of the hitchhiker's books where someone has like 10 minutes to live and they're saying, oh, I can do loads of stuff. 80 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:41.759 And the one that just sticks in my head is run half a bath. 81 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:45.300 Yeah, yeah. 82 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:55.620 On the shooting script, they just call this Doctor Who, 50th anniversary prequel. 83 00:06:55.680 --> 00:07:01.379 But I think what's really going on here is this is a Brain of Morpheus sequel, and that's what I'm absolutely here for. 84 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:05.639 That's one of the most, that's what that's equally to me as exciting as all the new stuff. 85 00:07:05.699 --> 00:07:06.839 It's like, 0 my god. 86 00:07:06.899 --> 00:07:08.279 We're going back to calm. 87 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:12.540 Is there some like cultural critique in there as well? 88 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:18.420 Because, doesn't the doctor say something along the lines of, oh, this is the planet Khan. 89 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:22.019 You're the sisterhood of Khan, sisterhood of out of boredom or something? 90 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:23.339 Yeah, the flame of other boredom. 91 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:25.560 Like the keepers of the flame of utter boredom. 92 00:07:25.620 --> 00:07:25.800 Yeah. 93 00:07:25.860 --> 00:07:26.160 Yeah. 94 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:26.579 Yeah. 95 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:36.060 So Tom does say something fairly similar about how their immortality has caused them to stagnate and it's the sort of source of all of their problems. 96 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:51.240 But I think, because this week, I mean, this episode and day of the doctor, are all about bringing Gallifre back and healing the big 16 year rift that we had in the show's history. 97 00:07:51.300 --> 00:07:56.220 And so Gallifrey comes back, but before it comes back, we get Khan, again. 98 00:07:56.339 --> 00:07:58.500 Yes, and who would have guessed? 99 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:01.980 It just wasn't on the list of things that we thought we would ever see again. 100 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:09.360 It's kind of a pity, really, that the children in need special from 2005, a.k.a. 101 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:17.579 Pudsy Cutaway, doesn't have the fan title officially, which was born again, because Russell T. Davies suggested, oh, that could be, because this could be Khan again. 102 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:19.500 Yeah, kind of good. 103 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:20.100 Nice. 104 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:23.939 I came up with I was thinking a similar of what, like what I might have called that. 105 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:39.659 And I came up with the man with 2 brains of Morbius or... or sister act 2 wishful drinking to steal Carrie Fisher's beautiful title for her autobiography. 106 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:44.159 I mean, they are great. 107 00:08:44.220 --> 00:08:45.600 They're really, really superb. 108 00:08:45.659 --> 00:08:48.840 He does bring them back once more, but goodness me, they're good. 109 00:08:48.899 --> 00:09:05.820 Yeah, and I just, I find it interesting that Moffat would not be the last Doctor Who showrunner to go back to the well of the brain of Morbius to go, I want to reveal a heretofore unseen moment in Doctor Who's history with a hidden incarnation here or there. 110 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:10.679 And it's kind of interesting that neither of those revelations are specifically about Gallifrey. 111 00:09:10.740 --> 00:09:12.480 They're about a place that's Gallifrey adjacent. 112 00:09:12.539 --> 00:09:13.440 Yeah. 113 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:15.600 It's Gallifrey, but magic. 114 00:09:15.659 --> 00:09:20.159 Yes, it is. but magic and Gallifray, but women as well. 115 00:09:20.220 --> 00:09:20.759 Yeah. 116 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:21.899 Yeah. 117 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:24.720 I think it's exactly the right choice. 118 00:09:24.779 --> 00:09:31.139 I think one of the thing about this that strikes me about this episode is that the, I think the choices he's made. 119 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:32.759 The basic choices are really strong. 120 00:09:32.820 --> 00:09:34.799 Like, you get the sense them often knows. 121 00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:36.299 This is important stuff. 122 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:39.240 And this is where in a normal episode, he would pull something new out. 123 00:09:39.299 --> 00:09:41.639 He'll just make, you know, he'll go a 1000000000 years in the future. 124 00:09:41.700 --> 00:09:44.879 There's some thing and you just pull some sort of jokey thing out of his bag. 125 00:09:44.940 --> 00:09:47.940 But he knows that this is the sort of what's at stake here. 126 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:50.879 And I think the cisterhood of Khan is exactly the right choice. 127 00:09:50.940 --> 00:09:54.600 And this was a perfect excuse to go back and rewatch Brain and Morbius, which I did the other day. 128 00:09:54.659 --> 00:09:57.779 And it really struck me how much of that is exactly right. 129 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:09.419 You know, and I'd sort of forgotten, like, um, you know, the doctor sort of blithely says that Khan is like sort of virtually neighbouring Gallifrey. you know, it's from my neck of the woods, pretty much, he says, you know, within a couple of 1000000000 years. 130 00:10:09.539 --> 00:10:21.659 And the key thing, that the sisters say that the elixir, which I'd forgotten, that the elixir of life is, is they shared it with the Time Lords on rare occasions when there was some sort of difficulty with regenerating a body. 131 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:23.460 I'm like, well, that's what this is. 132 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:27.059 You know, that's I think it's the right choice, I think. 133 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:37.500 And because it's the 50th anniversary going back into the mythology, which is something that I normally hate is absolutely the right thing to do. 134 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:42.600 And because it's done so well, the woman they have, her name's Ohela, is she? 135 00:10:42.659 --> 00:10:44.639 Yeah, she's a heila rather than a heka. 136 00:10:44.700 --> 00:10:46.559 Ohika was the one who was left alive. 137 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:51.240 She probably is her, but she just forgot to spell it. 138 00:10:51.299 --> 00:10:56.340 Oh, maybe she's got one of those signatures where it's in a very hard... 139 00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:56.940 I don't know. 140 00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:58.860 She's been signing autographs for so long now. 141 00:10:58.919 --> 00:10:59.820 It's just loose. 142 00:10:59.879 --> 00:11:00.720 I can't remember her name. 143 00:11:00.779 --> 00:11:05.940 Yeah, they just, look, they just never get it right at Starbucks, so she's just like, fine, I'm a healer now. 144 00:11:06.419 --> 00:11:09.120 But I think she's tremendously good. 145 00:11:09.179 --> 00:11:10.259 She is terrific. 146 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:15.240 And she absolutely deserves the comeback that she gets at the beginning of series nine. 147 00:11:15.299 --> 00:11:17.639 She's really, really properly good. 148 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:19.620 And at the end of series, no? 149 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:20.879 Oh, okay. 150 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:22.980 Yeah. 151 00:11:22.980 --> 00:11:50.580 So this is Claire Higgins, who's like 6 time Olivier award winner and she's sort of, you know, for stuff like Phaedra and Hecuba. she can dash off grit, and I've seen, I've seen her in the theatre doing this stuff, and it's just, it's all that Greek, you know, you'll know all this, Nathan, is a classicist, you know, it's like, it's, it's a whole different world, and they just have to manifest just like massively elemental, you know, Titan forms of acting. 152 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:57.779 And so this for her is just like dusting off brush, cutting off a little slice, a little shaving of that kind of talent for us. 153 00:11:57.779 --> 00:12:04.799 But of course, what it does, it gives this enormous weight because you, you know, she brings all of that to it. 154 00:12:04.860 --> 00:12:12.360 So she's just amazing and it's crucially somebody who Paul would very like would really relish playing against and clearly does. 155 00:12:12.419 --> 00:12:13.559 So she's amazing. 156 00:12:13.620 --> 00:12:15.059 She really, she really is. 157 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:17.580 And she does get hefty dialogue. 158 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:23.820 You know, there's a lot of exposition, but it's really elevated in its tone and the stakes are so high. 159 00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:35.039 I mean, it's an episode where she has to convince the doctor to abandon his principles in order to fight a war that is destroying the whole universe. 160 00:12:35.100 --> 00:12:35.940 That line. 161 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:44.580 Her line about Cass, you know, the doctor says, Cass wanted to see the universe and she says, she didn't miss much. 162 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:45.960 It's very nearly over. 163 00:12:46.019 --> 00:12:48.720 It's so good and she delivers it so well. 164 00:12:48.779 --> 00:12:49.980 Exactly that. 165 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:52.500 It's like, this is like, oh, that, you know, she's like, it's already gone. 166 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:52.980 You missed it, love. 167 00:12:53.100 --> 00:12:54.659 It's like blink and eye stuff, you know. 168 00:12:54.659 --> 00:13:08.340 And, you know, you know, it's kind of an example of what, at the time, a lot of fans accused Moffat of overcasting, and, you know, if you think of Olivia Coleman in the 11th hour or in at Crosby in the 11th hour. 169 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:13.379 And interviews at the time, Stephen Moffatt sort of has an apologetic tone about getting these big actors. 170 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:20.100 But since leaving the role of executive producer, what he's asked about, he's like, no, you know, for a long time, I thought, yeah, I wasted them. 171 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:23.460 And then I thought, no, no, I didn't waste them. 172 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:31.500 I got in a great actor who put in massive impact into a small part of the episode and they enjoy doing it. 173 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:32.519 We enjoyed having them. 174 00:13:32.580 --> 00:13:37.080 He's like, you know, you don't have to give the big actor a big role. 175 00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:42.720 And he's like, even, you know, you give a less experienced actor a big role and let them shine in it as well. 176 00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:48.059 And cast is played by Emma Campbell Jones, and I'm sure I've seen her in other things, but I can't remember what. 177 00:13:48.179 --> 00:14:01.500 And even then, you know, she's got a handful of lines and Stephen Moffatt knows how to make her immediately companion material because she kept her head and saved everyone else because she was the only person who wasn't screaming. 178 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:02.220 Yeah. 179 00:14:02.220 --> 00:14:10.019 And so welcome aboard is the doctor welcoming welcoming her onto the Tartar as a new companion. 180 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:10.740 Yeah. 181 00:14:10.740 --> 00:14:20.220 But she's also the indication that the Doctor Who universe is now broken because she says absolutely not to going on this adventure. 182 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:25.919 Everyone else goes, oh, my God, you're this magical time lord with a box that's bigger on the inside than the outside. 183 00:14:25.980 --> 00:14:28.200 She finds those 2 things out and she's like, absolutely not. 184 00:14:28.259 --> 00:14:32.220 Yeah, that, I mean, that, that thing's a cliche, isn't it? 185 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:40.139 that everyone has to say it's bigger on the inside than the outside. and that's a source of wonder. 186 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:46.860 And for her, it's a source of horror, like Moffatt makes it the thing when she hears him say that. 187 00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:51.120 That's the thing that causes her to reject him and slam the door between them. 188 00:14:51.179 --> 00:14:56.039 And I think that's a really, really good subversion of that. 189 00:14:56.100 --> 00:15:01.799 Yeah, he even, as he sort of pulls a hand in hand, he goes, oh, come on, you know, like, come aboard, you'll love it. 190 00:15:01.860 --> 00:15:02.700 You know, instantly. 191 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:03.720 He's just like, oh, they all do. 192 00:15:03.779 --> 00:15:13.860 You know, it's just like, I think too, this is a week where we get to see a bit more of the time war than we ever had. 193 00:15:13.980 --> 00:15:16.019 And here we get to hear about it. 194 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:19.740 It's the background to this story and both cats and Ohealer. 195 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:20.399 Tell us about it. 196 00:15:20.460 --> 00:15:34.440 And one of the things that I think is inevitable this week, if we're going to see the time war, it needs to be, it needs to be kind of made visible. 197 00:15:34.500 --> 00:15:47.399 And whenever Russell describes the time war in dialogue, he does it in a really sort of strange poetic way and things happen that you can't even picture or understand. 198 00:15:47.460 --> 00:15:48.419 Intangible. 199 00:15:48.419 --> 00:15:50.039 It's amorphous. 200 00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:52.080 Yeah, it's certainly incomprehensible. 201 00:15:52.139 --> 00:16:01.559 And what Milford does is he really kind of just brings it down to the sort of horrible space guns thing. 202 00:16:01.620 --> 00:16:10.500 You know, the Time Lords have just been, you know, they've been brought so low that they're just sort of firing big guns at people and that sort of thing. 203 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:13.379 And like, I think you lose something. 204 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:19.620 I love Russell's version of the time war, but I think that Moffatt has to make the change. 205 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:29.279 And of course, the other thing that he dumps, and we'll talk more about this tomorrow, is the idea that the time lords were evil and as evil as the Daleks. 206 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:35.519 You know, this is a conflict, but we're meant to think that Cass is mistaken. about the doctor. 207 00:16:35.580 --> 00:16:39.059 But in the end of time, part one and two. 208 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:46.379 The Time Lords are a worse threat than the Daleks, because they want to kill everyone, essentially, at this point. 209 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:05.099 Apparently, this was all shot in sort of very, very much secrecy. 210 00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:18.180 I think it was maybe a 2 day shoot, possibly even a one, and so, you know, Paul Bagan was whisked off to Cardiff. with a code name for the production turned up and he's like, there was no costume fitting. 211 00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:19.319 They just had the costume there. 212 00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:20.460 Somehow they had my measurements. 213 00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:22.680 I don't know how that happened, but... 214 00:17:22.740 --> 00:17:23.640 Just very small. 215 00:17:23.700 --> 00:17:24.539 Yes, that's right. 216 00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:25.079 Yeah. 217 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:43.140 No, like the 1st Doctor Who convention I went to with Rod, it was Davidson, Colin Baker, Silv, and McGann, and Rob was like, oh, well, you know, I knew Peter and Colin were tall, and I knew Silv for sure. 218 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:44.579 I didn't know Paul was short. 219 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:45.599 They hid that in the movie. 220 00:17:46.619 --> 00:17:48.000 Yeah. 221 00:17:48.059 --> 00:17:53.579 In an interview, when he was talking about his costume, Paul said that he's one of his brothers. 222 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:55.619 He says, my brother reckoned I look like Frodo. 223 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:56.579 He's not wrong. 224 00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:57.180 No. 225 00:17:57.180 --> 00:17:59.819 The slightly shaggy hair in the little waistcoat. 226 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:01.500 I mean, it's a vast improvement, isn't it? 227 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:10.019 The telly movie has the doctor's look being like something Americans would have enjoyed more than we would, I think. 228 00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:14.460 I think the costume is not good in the movie and obviously that wig. 229 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:19.259 I mean, he would just not have come back, would he have been forced to wear that again? 230 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:20.279 That was just... 231 00:18:20.339 --> 00:18:22.019 That was part of his gum contract, wasn't it? 232 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:23.220 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 233 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:25.740 No wigs. written into all his contract. 234 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:29.220 So he's, I mean, I think he looks really good. 235 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:33.240 And he looks, you know, like he's aged well, hasn't he? 236 00:18:33.299 --> 00:18:34.559 Yeah, yeah. 237 00:18:34.619 --> 00:18:37.799 Yeah, I mean, he's I mean, he's 54 in this. 238 00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:39.960 Um, and that's that's a good look. 239 00:18:40.019 --> 00:18:41.880 Paul is really bloody handsome man. 240 00:18:41.940 --> 00:18:49.140 If you see him in Witnall, especially the last, there's like a last shot where he goes. he's all sort of smartened himself off to go and sell out and all this kind of stuff. 241 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:52.259 And there's just a side profile of him when he puts on this fedora hat. 242 00:18:52.259 --> 00:18:54.660 And you just really see, he's a beautiful man. 243 00:18:54.779 --> 00:19:03.000 I mean, he's a really, really good looking man and he's aged incredibly well and I've seen him at 61 or 2 as he is now and he's still, he's a fine looking man. 244 00:19:03.059 --> 00:19:03.900 No 2 ways about it. 245 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:04.920 Yeah. 246 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:09.000 Yeah, and he does come back this week again. 247 00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:11.220 Is he briefly in the five-ish doctor's reboot? 248 00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:11.819 Yes, he is. 249 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:21.059 So this thing that we're about to experience this kind of week or so of Doctor Who literally has every living doctor involved, doesn't it? 250 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.059 It's very generous, I think. 251 00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:25.559 There's something really warm about it. 252 00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:43.500 And I think, you know, if you tried to shovel everyone into the same 70 minute special, it would have been just intolerable, but instead just having a huge week of exciting Doctor Who things happen where everyone gets to, you know, do their party piece at some point is pretty gray. 253 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:55.920 Yeah, that's that's exactly it because, you know, in in the special itself, you're going to have Matt and David, and eventually Tom at the end, and John Hurt. 254 00:19:55.980 --> 00:20:03.420 You've got Paul doing this, you've got Silv, Colin and Pete doing the five-ish doctors reboot. 255 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:09.839 And even at the time, Eccleston gave an interview saying, I wish everyone really well, I was offered it. 256 00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:14.279 I declined, but, you know, it was all very respectful and there's no animosity and I hope it all goes well. 257 00:20:14.339 --> 00:20:17.519 So even though Eccleston didn't contribute to any of the stories. 258 00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:22.440 He said, yep, they're in them and I'm really glad it's happening and I was asked. 259 00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:31.500 I also think there's something to terrifically generous about giving Paul's doctor a regeneration scene and some final words and all of that. 260 00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:40.920 And it is, it just reminds you that Moffatt is just a full on fan, you know, like just a Doctor Who fan. 261 00:20:40.980 --> 00:20:45.240 And that gap mattered, I think. 262 00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:53.160 And, you know, in the in the day of the doctor, we'll get John Hurt to Christopher Eccleston sort of regenerating as well. 263 00:20:53.220 --> 00:21:06.720 So he's filling in those gaps as part of this bigger project of kind of reclaiming classic Doctor Who and making it, you know, putting it on the same footing as the new show. 264 00:21:07.259 --> 00:21:11.400 And so we ended last season with little appearances from all of the doctors. 265 00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:17.880 We will end the special with a big shot with all 12 of them. 266 00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:20.220 We're going to get Gallifrey back properly. 267 00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:27.059 All of those things are happening in order to kind of, in order to heal that gap, I think. 268 00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:52.079 And I think that's a really generous project to suddenly imbue this show, which is at this point in its sort of 8th or ninth year, to give it an additional giant backstory that is really properly part of it, you know, and and the other way around, you know, to celebrate what brought us here, including the 1st 26 years of the program. 269 00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:53.819 I think it's really tremendous. 270 00:21:53.880 --> 00:22:21.000 Yeah, and I think the fact that there's so much, like this is, it's 6 minutes and 50 seconds long. you know, that's so short, but it does so much in a tiny spell, like exactly as you said, he just gives us those things we need, a seeing Paul McGann and the 8th doctor, seeing that regeneration, tying it all up, you know, with some stuff at the time all there with this sort of shorthand, exactly the right shorthand of the science magic stuff of time lords and the sisterhood. 271 00:22:21.059 --> 00:22:23.400 It's like, I think it's really good. 272 00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:26.700 I think this is one of his best stories and best scripts, I honestly do. 273 00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:29.160 Because it's very concise. 274 00:22:29.220 --> 00:22:33.359 There is humour in there, but there isn't time for too much trickery and stuff. 275 00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:38.819 It's taking it seriously, but it's still fun. you know, That's that's great. 276 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:45.720 And I think for some people, this is one of the, I mean, some people have said that the 5-ish doctors reboot. is their favourite anniversary thing. 277 00:22:45.779 --> 00:22:51.660 And I think for some people this would have been, and probably still is, their favourite bit when they think back to the anniversary. some people's minds go to this. 278 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:54.059 And I think what you're saying, Nathan, is right. 279 00:22:54.119 --> 00:23:03.299 I think they were very generous and I think whatever you're, wherever you are in the series, there is something for you in that week. you know, there really is. 280 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:09.900 And on that as well, Conrad, with, you know, there's something that can be a favourite for everyone. 281 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:14.400 Well, something Doctor Who fans love doing is ranking things. 282 00:23:14.579 --> 00:23:16.440 Sorry, what did you say? 283 00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:19.019 Ranking, ranking with an R. 284 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:25.500 But, you know, so it's like, oh, well, is day of the doctor 1st or is night of the doctor 1st or is the five-ish doctor's reboot first? 285 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:28.200 And I think maybe we found the purpose of the last day. 286 00:23:30.900 --> 00:23:33.960 So everyone can... at the bottom. 287 00:23:34.019 --> 00:23:35.640 Oh, okay, fair enough. 288 00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:51.539 I have heard a rumour somewhere that the last day was concocted between the night of the doctor being released early because of the leak and the anniversary special because they're like, we need to put out something as part of the promotional strategy. 289 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:54.960 Let's get some actors in and da da. don't know if that's true. 290 00:23:55.019 --> 00:24:00.960 I don't know if that was always bland or what, but that could certainly have been true. 291 00:24:02.099 --> 00:24:14.519 Something I find so interesting about this is, of course, after the telemovie, there were approximately 75 different continuities for the 8th doctor. 292 00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:24.720 So there was the Radio Times comic strip, the Doctor Who magazine comic strip, the BBC books and Big Finish. 293 00:24:24.779 --> 00:24:25.500 Yeah. 294 00:24:25.500 --> 00:24:29.880 And this story basically decides, yeah, Big Finish is the one that happened. 295 00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:34.380 Yeah, now that was a moment, wasn't it? 296 00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:36.720 That was one of the biggest things that came out of it. 297 00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:39.420 It was just like, oh, wait, we're doing that now, aren't we? 298 00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:42.960 And it's, I was trying to look back at how many times they've done it. 299 00:24:43.019 --> 00:24:45.599 And, you know, we're going to have to use the C word. 300 00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:46.859 We have to talk about canon. 301 00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:48.180 Like, you can't get through this. 302 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:49.980 I try as you might. 303 00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:55.019 It's a made-up television program by stressed out writers just trying to put a kid show out every so often. 304 00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:56.460 It's you know. 305 00:24:56.519 --> 00:25:02.400 But like, you know, it's that was a huge part of of what you heard about it. 306 00:25:02.460 --> 00:25:12.359 I think, like, you got to remember at the time, because it's so, I think, another thing that 50s did was like, it really, we all got used to, through the merchandise into publicity, we all got used to seeing all the doctors in a row. 307 00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:17.400 And when we just totally assume now, you know, we're used to seeing the lineup. 308 00:25:17.460 --> 00:25:27.779 But at the time, I mean, in, it was only in 2007 that the new series acknowledged the 8th doctor when they put him in that journal of impossible things of human nature. 309 00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:30.660 I remember at the time, it was a huge... 310 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:32.640 Oh my god, okay, that does mean he actually exists. 311 00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:34.319 We are talking about the TV movie now. 312 00:25:34.380 --> 00:25:40.559 It's like, because we forget this now, but actually at the time, the Paul McGann doesn't count thing was really... 313 00:25:40.619 --> 00:25:41.759 It's in queer as folk. 314 00:25:41.819 --> 00:25:44.279 You remember that... 315 00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:47.160 The whole plot hinges on Paul McGann doesn't count. 316 00:25:47.220 --> 00:25:48.059 That's right. 317 00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:50.339 That's right It nearly does, actually. 318 00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:54.839 It's very close to the reason why he breaks up with Peter O'Brien, I think. 319 00:25:55.019 --> 00:25:58.019 So that is a thing, isn't it? 320 00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:17.819 And so what they've done, because that doctor had so little television, and because he couldn't reflect back on an era, which is sometimes the thing that we do before a regeneration happens, we talk about the version of Doctor Who that McGann himself was involved in. 321 00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:24.720 So McGann doesn't act in the books or the comic streaps, his images there, but the thing that he actually produced. 322 00:26:24.779 --> 00:26:30.240 And so the companions that he had actually acted with before get name checked. 323 00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:39.000 And I think that's, again, there has sometimes been a sort of defensiveness around big finish. 324 00:26:39.059 --> 00:26:52.859 You know, big finish wasn't allowed to touch new series concepts for a while and there were all kinds of rules about making sure that it didn't kind of damage the brand or do anything to the brand. 325 00:26:52.920 --> 00:27:03.240 And here we have the parent show actually reaching out and including big finish into its kind of orbit. 326 00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:06.240 And I think I really, I think that's a really generous thing again. 327 00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:18.420 It is one of the most significant things that Moffat does, as showrunner, is not just canonise Big Finish in the main show. 328 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:35.099 He also loosens the, the, the, hold that the BBC has on the license for the new series, which is has, you know, whatever you think of some of those new series box sets has been a good thing for the show. 329 00:27:35.700 --> 00:27:38.519 River song snogging Colin Baker. 330 00:27:38.579 --> 00:27:39.180 I'm here for it. 331 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:40.200 Oh my god. 332 00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:43.140 Oh my god. not sure I am. 333 00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:45.599 Because it actually works. 334 00:27:45.660 --> 00:27:48.660 Like, you think it won't work and it really does. 335 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:02.339 Also, I think it was during that week. 336 00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:08.460 Well, within a week or two, Doctor Who magazine had a 50th, you know, had a party for the 50th anniversary. 337 00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:12.059 And I remember I was at the bar and this thing had just aired, I think. 338 00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:15.720 I think it might have been between night of the doctor and the day of the doctor, but it was certainly in that week. 339 00:28:15.779 --> 00:28:24.059 And I was chatting to somebody at the bar and you know what rumours are like going around and that had just happened, so people coming up to me going, oh, look, you're cannon, you're Canada, which is very alarming. 340 00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:33.779 I went to see a 3D screening of Day of the Doctor because they released it at the cinema and I thought, you know what, I'd like to go and see it in 3D. And I was just sitting in this dark and drum and it sort of people were shuffling to the seats before me. somebody. 341 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:36.299 I don't know why he hissed at me in the dark, you cannon. 342 00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:37.619 It's very annoying. 343 00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:41.160 In a darkened cinema. 344 00:28:41.220 --> 00:28:42.660 That's an alarming thing in Brighton. 345 00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:44.579 That's an alarming thing to hiss anybody. 346 00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:50.519 But, you know, people so people were coming up to me at the bar and I was like, oh, my God, you know, this is fun. 347 00:28:50.579 --> 00:28:51.359 We're chatting about it. 348 00:28:51.420 --> 00:28:54.299 Somebody said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, Paul wanted to do that. 349 00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:56.339 And I was like, hm, okay. 350 00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:58.920 And there were just different rumours going around about how it came about. 351 00:28:58.980 --> 00:29:03.960 So I thought, I'd had a couple and I still thought, well, Moffatt's on the other side of the room, I'm going to go and ask. 352 00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:05.579 So it walked. 353 00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:07.859 So just walked on the side of the half, right, this is my moment. 354 00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:10.500 So I walked to the other side of the room, I tapped her on the shoulder and said, oh, hi. 355 00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:15.299 So you did tonight, the doctor thing, and you name loads of big Finnish companions and like, I was one of them. 356 00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:16.680 Like, how did that come about? 357 00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:18.900 Like, you know, yeah, how did that come about? 358 00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:21.299 And he just said, because we're very nice. 359 00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:25.259 Exactly like that. 360 00:29:25.380 --> 00:29:26.819 Exactly like that. 361 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:29.759 He really isn't, is he? 362 00:29:29.819 --> 00:29:30.779 Thanks very much. 363 00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:33.779 What was that? 364 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:36.119 He's not really very nice. 365 00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:37.680 No, no. 366 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.259 Yeah, he said it in a, he said it exactly like that. 367 00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:42.480 So I just walked by the bar and we'll never know. 368 00:29:42.539 --> 00:29:43.019 So there you go. 369 00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:44.339 There's an exclusive. 370 00:29:44.819 --> 00:29:51.299 I always promised Nathan to come on with like a half baked sort of peripheral showbist story and that was that one. 371 00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:52.920 That's the one for this episode. 372 00:29:52.980 --> 00:30:01.500 So, yeah, I think the other significant thing is worth saying is that the name, like Kerry is that name which is, you know, plagued with apostrophes and Z's all over the place. 373 00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:11.880 It was originally called Quiz, KRIZ, until it was pointed out that Quiz is the name of the dying insect mutt from the brain of Rubius. 374 00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:13.140 There we go. 375 00:30:13.140 --> 00:30:13.980 No sisterhoods. 376 00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:15.539 There's magic in this brew, I tell you. 377 00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:18.180 It all ties back to the brain of Morbius. 378 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:18.660 There you go. 379 00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:19.440 Bit of trivia. 380 00:30:19.500 --> 00:30:33.000 We are sitting here with a Charlie Day conspiracy wall with a picture of Joe Martin and George Galancio and Philip Hinchcliffe in a funny wig and a healer and a heaker, same person. 381 00:30:33.059 --> 00:30:34.319 He knows. 382 00:30:34.859 --> 00:30:42.000 And actually, there is a moment in it when the doctor says it sees a healer and he looks at it and goes, is that you? 383 00:30:42.059 --> 00:30:46.859 Every time I rewatch it, I always think it's specifically, basically what I'm saying is that Zoheka. 384 00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:48.000 That is full of... 385 00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:48.960 That's absolutely her. 386 00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:54.960 I know he says, oh, the sisterhood, but there's something in that moment I've just decided that is whatever. 387 00:30:55.019 --> 00:30:56.880 And here's another thing that I can't quite figure out. 388 00:30:56.940 --> 00:31:04.619 The other thing, of course, that Moffatt knows about Brainer Morbius, is that planes get other than planes, spaceships crash. you know, the Sargasso Sea sort of thing. 389 00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:12.900 And I sort of, so I think in the brain of Morbius, it was the sisterhood bringing those down to by making them crash to stop people stealing the elixir or something. 390 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:13.980 I don't know. 391 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:15.660 I just couldn't remember who was doing that. 392 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:19.859 And in this story, I was like, why did it of all the places to crash? 393 00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:24.059 Like, is that, are we supposed to think that's a coincidence? 394 00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:27.720 are they bringing the ship down to get the doctor there? 395 00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:34.680 I don't know, because, I mean, this is just going into, this is, this is why it's a great choice to do something like this because it precisely does this to us. 396 00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:35.759 It turns all insane. 397 00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:45.119 But like, you know, but just taking the story on face value, you know, I think she says, oh, you know, we all knew in our bones that one day he would return. 398 00:31:45.180 --> 00:31:55.859 So it doesn't sound like it was them, which makes you wonder, and Robert Holmes loved to do this and all this, you know, in 3 doctors, Brain of Morbius, 2 doctors, Mysterious Planet. 399 00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:58.319 He always loved to have the Time Lords placing the doctor. 400 00:31:58.380 --> 00:32:00.720 You know, he does start the brain in Morbius. 401 00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:03.000 He's coming out raging at the time that's put him there. 402 00:32:03.059 --> 00:32:04.380 So there you go. 403 00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:06.180 There's a conspiracy thing there. 404 00:32:06.299 --> 00:32:15.539 But like, just in terms of if we're going to play Doctor Who is real, like, like, well, it's completely real. 405 00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:16.799 I'm here, James. 406 00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:19.980 I'm here. it's all fine So there we go. that's my that's my thing. 407 00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:20.519 I don't know. 408 00:32:20.579 --> 00:32:22.019 So basically I'm having it. 409 00:32:22.019 --> 00:32:28.440 In my head, I think the time lords crashed him there so that this is could fit him and then put dual. 410 00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:30.119 I don't know, does that even make sense? 411 00:32:30.180 --> 00:32:30.960 Who knows? 412 00:32:31.019 --> 00:32:32.220 It actually does. 413 00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:35.400 It may have been Cardinal Alystra played by Jacqueline Pierce. 414 00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:37.980 Yes, who I've never heard of. 415 00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:39.960 Big Finish makes a big deal out of that. 416 00:32:40.019 --> 00:32:44.579 And, you know, you see later in series 9 that they have been working together. 417 00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:56.460 I think the recreation of Khan that this episode does and it's got just one set and one kind of Matte painting. 418 00:32:56.519 --> 00:32:58.319 I think it's it looks really great. 419 00:32:58.380 --> 00:33:01.559 Like it's the same colouring and stuff. 420 00:33:01.619 --> 00:33:07.559 I mean, the great thing about Brain of Morbius is it looks like BBC season of Shakespeare production. 421 00:33:07.619 --> 00:33:11.519 Like there's really no attempt to make the sets look realistic at all. 422 00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:13.259 And that's fine. 423 00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:23.220 I think it really works for the story, but just the colouring that that exterior, you know, the exterior of the planet and just the general kind of feel of it. 424 00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:32.279 It's taking something that was a little bit low rent and a little bit low effort and making it properly epic just for a couple of seconds. 425 00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:35.700 I love how fake that looks. 426 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:37.859 Do you know what I mean? 427 00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:39.059 Like, it's so good. 428 00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:40.140 It's great. 429 00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:41.640 I love it. 430 00:33:41.700 --> 00:33:44.160 I mean, I bought it hook line and sinker when I was a kid. 431 00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:45.240 I still bought it now. 432 00:33:45.299 --> 00:33:53.640 I did see, I did, I was looking online at, just trying to look at, like, look at Paul's costume and I found, there was a, there was, it was obviously some doctor at doctor exhibition. 433 00:33:53.700 --> 00:34:03.900 I don't know if it was the doctor experience or what, but there is a picture of McGann's night of the doctor costume. next to what looks like Claire Higgins Ohela costume, but with one vital difference. 434 00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:08.940 She's wearing a hat and I'm not just talking a hat. 435 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:10.199 I'm talking the hat. 436 00:34:10.260 --> 00:34:14.940 The Maran full on the MT, you described it as the Victoria Sponge cake number. 437 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:16.199 I mean, I can put it. 438 00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:19.380 I can put it in the chat here, but I don't know if that's going to mess things up. 439 00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:19.980 I don't know. 440 00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:22.440 But there's a picture of that on there. 441 00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:27.719 And I'm trying to look like, did you make that specially, or if you just put the, have you still got the original one on there? 442 00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:35.340 I'm choosing to believe it, Claire Higgins saw that and caused an almighty stick and demanded that on no way in hell was she wearing? 443 00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:37.920 went completely postal. 444 00:34:37.980 --> 00:34:45.840 The trailer was the Winnebago was shaking with fear, the windows blew as she unleashed all this elemental fury that she wasn't wearing that hat. 445 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:48.119 That's my story. 446 00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:48.539 Yeah. 447 00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:49.320 So there you go. 448 00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:50.099 The mystery of the hat. 449 00:34:50.340 --> 00:34:56.099 Maybe the set was so small that they couldn't, she couldn't wear the hat without shooting off the set. 450 00:34:58.019 --> 00:34:59.099 It is fine. 451 00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:00.599 I will send a photograph of it Yes. 452 00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:01.739 Sure. 453 00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:03.300 That's one for the show notes. 454 00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:10.440 I think also another thing worth mentioning is the actual, just about the how the regeneration happens because it is exactly that science and magic thing. 455 00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:12.059 And I think it's perfect. 456 00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:15.179 I think it's, I think it's exactly the right mixture to do. 457 00:35:15.179 --> 00:35:20.760 And also it slightly gives you that, you know, in the TV movie, he had that whole Frankenstein sequence. 458 00:35:20.820 --> 00:35:29.400 It all has, which is, I think, is appropriate because it is this kind of unnatural, you know, like thematically and it is this sort of unnaturally extended life that regeneration is. 459 00:35:29.460 --> 00:35:31.500 So I think Frankenstein is a good callback there. 460 00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:35.099 And here, you know, he gets the, you know, the smoking. 461 00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:35.820 Yeah, you know. 462 00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:37.800 It's a magic post challenge in the palace. 463 00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:39.239 A magic potion. 464 00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:40.679 Which another, here's another thing. 465 00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:44.639 Healer says, oh, I made, I took the liberty of preparing it myself. 466 00:35:44.699 --> 00:35:51.780 Like, so she so she might not have brought him there, but when she was like doing the potions, it suggests that she knew this had to happen. 467 00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:53.460 This is when she wanted to make him happen. 468 00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:56.400 And like, he has to drink this. this is the one he's got to drink. 469 00:35:56.460 --> 00:36:07.440 So Moffat Moffat later admitted that he had written that as it was actually just sugar or, you know, like it was nothing was fake. 470 00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:10.860 She just convinced the doctor he needed to be a warrior? 471 00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:12.780 Yeah, he says it's lemonade and dry ice. 472 00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:18.179 He says the amazing thing, which is he's the sort of thing I'm so glad he put in the book and not on the TV. 473 00:36:18.300 --> 00:36:24.239 That's exactly the thing he could have put in the TV show, which is luckily absent from this 6 minutes. 474 00:36:24.300 --> 00:36:39.900 When you were talking just now about the regeneration in the movie, I remember Clayton Hickman talking about that on a documentary kind of going, you know, Silv is sitting there doing all the facial expressions, you know, and his mouth is trying to eat his own chin and what have you. 475 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:45.179 And then you fade it into Paul, who's just very slightly moving his cheek muscles going, oh, must I? 476 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:51.719 Now flash forward, 17 years, and McGann is perfectly comfortable going, Oh, oh, oh. 477 00:36:51.900 --> 00:36:54.480 They'll pull it in later in post. 478 00:36:54.539 --> 00:36:55.019 It's fine. 479 00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:55.739 You know. 480 00:36:56.760 --> 00:37:04.019 But it's funny, I show, because I can't see, because I've spent weeks, you know, locked in a room with Paul McGann, you know, watching him act. 481 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:04.679 And so it's interesting. 482 00:37:04.739 --> 00:37:09.360 I can't, I know he's good and I can see he's really good, but I know how he's good. 483 00:37:09.420 --> 00:37:11.219 I can see which lines like the knitting one. 484 00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:13.679 Like, the lines he's less keen on, he'll throw away. 485 00:37:13.739 --> 00:37:16.079 I can see which I can see what he's done. 486 00:37:16.139 --> 00:37:17.880 I know what he's doing at every moment. 487 00:37:17.940 --> 00:37:20.039 You see which muscles he's using? 488 00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:23.159 Kind of, he's being operated from the back. 489 00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:37.980 So, I showed it to my partner last night, who had seen it before back in the day, and just said, Can you just look at this objectively and tell me what you think of it? 490 00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:41.280 And I particularly wanted, like, what do you think of him? 491 00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:45.360 And he, you know, he just watched it through and just said, like, he's really good. 492 00:37:45.420 --> 00:37:47.760 He goes, the 1st thing he said, he goes, he's very gentle. 493 00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:50.760 And I was like, oh, okay, that's interesting. 494 00:37:50.820 --> 00:37:52.199 He goes, yeah, he's very quiet. 495 00:37:52.260 --> 00:37:53.460 And I was like, oh, okay. 496 00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:54.840 He went, not like these two. 497 00:37:54.900 --> 00:37:58.800 And he just pointed to the TV, which just had the still of Tennant and Smith on there. 498 00:37:58.860 --> 00:38:06.900 And I was like, oh, that's interesting actually because, you know, he's he's an interesting doctor because he's very different to all the others. 499 00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:15.420 Like he was probably, I mean, no, Davidson wasn't a character actor, but typically Doctor Who had been a character actor and he absolutely isn't. 500 00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:18.239 He's a, I don't know, what do you call him? 501 00:38:18.300 --> 00:38:22.079 But the perception of Paul, I think, especially with fans, and I think it's why he's partly so loved by fans. 502 00:38:22.139 --> 00:38:23.579 He's got this kind of credibility. 503 00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:24.900 He's got this call about him. 504 00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:26.579 He's sort of like not one of us. 505 00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:29.699 He's he's not that crazy grandfather figure. 506 00:38:29.820 --> 00:38:32.940 He's quite cool. you know, incredible. 507 00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:34.320 But he's really good. 508 00:38:34.380 --> 00:38:37.500 I think that's worth saying like he is and he's really good in this. 509 00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:41.400 I think he does, like he does a really good job and I think he's why he sort of liked so much. 510 00:38:41.460 --> 00:38:47.099 Also, he has the advantage of, or not the advantage, but not having had much screen time. 511 00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:50.940 We can all just project everything we like on him because he's hardly, you know. 512 00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:51.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 513 00:38:51.900 --> 00:39:01.679 Any, you know, whatever you think of the TV movie, we've never actually seen him sort of tank in something or try desperately to salvage something from terrible material or anything. 514 00:39:01.980 --> 00:39:04.739 So, and also, and this bit I don't know. 515 00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:15.000 Like, I think, I think, um, if I've got this right, like plan A for the anniversary, which it was going to be, presumably, in an ideal world, Eccleston Tennant and Smith, I'm guessing. 516 00:39:15.059 --> 00:39:17.699 So, uh, Eccleston's out of the equation. 517 00:39:17.699 --> 00:39:28.139 I don't know if this is true or not, but there was some, there was the sort of common thing is like they wanted to have Paul instead as the war doctor, but the BBC didn't feel he was big enough or did they just wanted a big or different star. 518 00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:29.760 So that's how they got John Hurt. 519 00:39:29.820 --> 00:39:31.260 I don't know if that's true or not. 520 00:39:31.739 --> 00:39:39.840 I think either way, if they, even if they had had Eccleston, like Knight of the Doctor would have absolutely happened in an ideal world, you'd have... 521 00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:43.500 Yes, all of them generating into Eccleston, I think. 522 00:39:43.559 --> 00:40:00.719 I remember when we 1st saw John Heard at the end of name of the doctor, and I thought that one of the things that we lose is the idea that one of our doctors, you know, one of the doctors that we've watched on TV and loved did this terrible thing. 523 00:40:00.780 --> 00:40:06.059 And instead it becomes a person that we've never heard of who did that. 524 00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:12.239 And I think, like, I think it works, and again, we'll talk more about this tomorrow. 525 00:40:12.300 --> 00:40:16.860 I think that John Hurt plays an important role. 526 00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:23.099 He brings something to the role that wouldn't have been available to Eccleston, I think. 527 00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:27.480 But I do think that sort of dissociation's a little bit of a shame. 528 00:40:27.539 --> 00:40:32.760 And clearly, Moffatt, You know, Moffatt loves Russell's Doctor Who. 529 00:40:32.820 --> 00:40:45.360 It's very, very clear, and he constantly picks up on running gags that Russell's introduced or plays with things that Russell hasn't had the chance to kind of pick up on again. 530 00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:48.059 But I don't think... 531 00:40:48.059 --> 00:41:01.739 Well, Queen Elizabeth I. I'm thinking the fact that nothing interesting happened this year, this Christmas in London, as far as the doctor remembers, except that there was a giant cyber king stopping all over the place. 532 00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:06.360 You know, like, so there've been things that he picks up on. 533 00:41:06.420 --> 00:41:16.559 But I don't think that he likes, what the doctor does, like making the doctor kill all of the time lords is something that... 534 00:41:16.619 --> 00:41:20.699 Yeah, he thinks that that was a bad call, I think. 535 00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:31.500 And so I think part of the motivation for kind of healing that rift this week is because he doesn't think the doctor would have made that decision. 536 00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:36.119 And so he uses his power as showrunner to make sure that he did. 537 00:41:58.380 --> 00:42:01.739 Wealthy listener, that's all we have time for, for now. 538 00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:11.820 We'll be back tomorrow to celebrate Doctor Who's 50th and 59th birthdays at the same time, with two episodes of Flight Through Entirety on the day of the doctor. 539 00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:31.679 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us at flights for entirety on Facebook, at FDE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterterra, Maximum Power, and Untitled Star Trek project. 540 00:42:31.739 --> 00:42:42.659 Until next time, remember sitting at the front of the plane in the event of a crash means that you die several seconds earlier, which is more than made up for by the additional leg room. 541 00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:45.239 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 542 00:42:45.300 --> 00:42:45.900 Good night. 543 00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:46.739 Ta-ta. 544 00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:47.280 Good night. 545 00:42:54.119 --> 00:43:00.119 That was flight through entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Breeman, Jones, James Selwood, and Conrad Westmas. 546 00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:02.460 Theme arrangements by Cameron Lamb. 547 00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:08.940 This episode, not like these 2, was recorded on the 23rd of July 2022, and released on the 22nd of November. 548 00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:28.260 We'll see you tomorrow, of course, but in the meantime, don't forget to tune in to Disney Plus on the 22nd of November 2033 for the 70th anniversary prequel, in which Jody Whittaker returns unexpectedly to prevent Prime Minister for Lai Frishi Sunak from crashing Starship UK into the heart of the sun. 549 00:43:35.699 --> 00:43:38.099 I don't know where I'm going. 550 00:43:39.780 --> 00:43:41.940 Now that it's big finish. 551 00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:45.059 Cut that. 552 00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:46.559 Cut that. 553 00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:49.559 Sorry. 554 00:43:49.619 --> 00:43:51.539 Everyone's got a time war series now. 555 00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:53.280 Susan has a time war series now. 556 00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:55.860 Wow, is there the war, Susan? 557 00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:57.059 There's the war, Susan. 558 00:43:57.059 --> 00:44:02.579 With the war, Susan's war, and she goes to enlist the help of the censorites. 559 00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:03.480 Of course she does. 560 00:44:03.539 --> 00:44:12.059 I'm not joking That's a real genuine box set, and at this stage, it's likely to be William Russell's last contribution to Doctor Who. 561 00:44:12.300 --> 00:44:13.739 Wow. 562 00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:18.659 The war, Susan. when you think about that. 563 00:44:23.219 --> 00:44:25.440 Who plays the war, Susan? 564 00:44:25.500 --> 00:44:26.639 Oh, it's still Carol Anne Ford? 565 00:44:26.699 --> 00:44:28.619 No, you have to get some big ass. 566 00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:29.760 That's the wars, Susan. 567 00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:32.400 Agent doesn't know the memory of the word no. 568 00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:35.159 It's always that thing with it's like John Heard. 569 00:44:35.219 --> 00:44:40.019 It's like he was a fucking cartoon dragon on Merlin every Sunday night. 570 00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:41.760 Like, it's not that big a coup. 571 00:44:41.820 --> 00:44:42.360 He'll do anything. 572 00:44:42.420 --> 00:44:43.559 Yeah, well, that's the thing. 573 00:44:43.619 --> 00:44:46.380 John Hurt said about doing Doctor Who. 574 00:44:46.440 --> 00:45:05.820 He said, the weird thing about acting is the more successful you are, the less people think you will do when he's like, if I'm interested in the project and you're going to pay me because I need to eat, of course I'll do it, you know, but he's like, you know, you win a couple of awards and suddenly people think, oh, no, you don't want to do this thing. 575 00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:08.820 I want to have fun. 576 00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:11.639 I mean, he's going to be really good in it. 577 00:45:11.699 --> 00:45:15.300 We just see a tiny reflection of him in the car. 578 00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:19.800 Yeah, which I think is taken from an eye, Claudius, or from a BBC Shakespeare. 579 00:45:19.860 --> 00:45:21.059 Oh, crime and punishment. 580 00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:21.719 I beg your pardon. 581 00:45:21.780 --> 00:45:22.079 Thank you. 582 00:45:22.139 --> 00:45:24.960 It's Paul McCann's hand, though, apparently. 583 00:45:25.019 --> 00:45:26.280 So it's still Paul McGann. 584 00:45:26.340 --> 00:45:28.199 He's just regenerated from the neck up, apparently. 585 00:45:29.340 --> 00:45:32.820 It also says also available for hand monthly. 586 00:45:35.940 --> 00:45:37.559 Is that true? 587 00:45:37.619 --> 00:45:39.420 Do you know that from personal experience? 588 00:45:39.539 --> 00:45:40.860 That sounds a bit wrong. 589 00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:42.719 That's really wrong. 590 00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:45.539 I kept all of your life. 591 00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:48.179 I'm not even into this episode, Conrad. 592 00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:53.280 Oh, I'm so sorry. 593 00:45:53.340 --> 00:45:54.300 I didn't mean it like that. 594 00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:55.860 Cut to the test card. 595 00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:56.760 Just cut to the test card.