WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:54:06

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Hello Welcome back to Flight through Entirety, the only Doctor Who

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podcast that's releasing just one episode today on the day of the

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doctor.

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Actually, it's our 1st day here.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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I'm Simon.

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I'm Peter.

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It's been a mere moment since we were discussing the 50th

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anniversary special of Doctor Who, but there's a lot more to say

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and still more people left to say it.

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So here we are again, remembering what happened on the day of the

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doctor.

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So I actually started our previous episode this way, and I'm going

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to do it again.

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Peter, can you remember where you were when you 1st saw this

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episode?

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I can.

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I was in my sitting room in London and I had around me an array of

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people who I'd been friends with for decades because of Doctor

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Who.

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So Simon was there and our friend Matt, Matt Jones. and various

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other people. as well, Fiona was there.

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Todd was there.

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Todd was there, of course.

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And so we all watched it together and we all had that kind of

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collective fan experience.

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Yep, Paul was there.

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That collector fan experience that really, I don't think I'd had

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since the curse of Fenrick in 1989 when we all gathered round to

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watch it for the 1st time together.

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So it was it was a pretty special experience actually.

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And so I don't need to ask you, Simon.

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Well, same answer, but it wasn't my living room.

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But if I could just say the great thing about that, even though a

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number of us had gone to Britain for the 50th anniversary, like

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Todd and Fiona and I, for instance, all separately, it was lovely

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having all in the main Australians in the room because in each

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nation for different reasons because of different broadcast

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schedules and so on, we all have a slightly different experience

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of the program.

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And so it was great to share the Australian experience with other

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Australians even though we were watching it in Britain.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And James. can't remember.

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Oh, come on, we went to...

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Yeah, I just seem to remember turning up with a lot of sparkling

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Shiraz at 6 o'clock in the morning or something and we had a few

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drinks.

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I had to drive.

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So I had to be well behaved.

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And then we watched it on IView.

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And then you and I went to the cinema, to the Dandy up the road

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here and watched it again. watched it again in 3D. That was when I

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was living in Waterloo, wasn't it?

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Yeah, that's right.

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Yeah.

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It was the culmination of a pretty amazing week, I think.

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And, you know, flight through entirety is partly about our

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experiences of watching Doctor Who as much as it is about the show

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itself.

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And so this was pretty seminal.

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I have very, very strong memories of watching the 5 doctors for

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the 1st time.

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I know exactly where I was and the fact that I wasn't in Sydney

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and so I could actually watch it because there was no blackout or

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whatever.

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Yeah, lost the 1st hour of it.

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Parts of Sydney.

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This was huge.

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It was one of those times where Doctor Who really connected with

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the mainstream audience.

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So I can think of, since the series came back, There was probably

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a week or 2 in 2008, around Journey's end, and the stolen earth

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where Doctor Who was absolutely the zeitgeist, and people who were

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not fans were talking about it and asking you about it.

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It was a newspaper headlines and the stars were all over the TV in

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different shows.

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And this was the 2nd time.

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That week leading up to the airing of the day of the doctor.

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Doctor Who was everywhere.

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Just everywhere you looked.

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There was mentions of Doctor Who and people talking about talk

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to.

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And of course, Simon, you might remember that we went to the big

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convention, which was held in London over the 3 days.

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Yes.

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Yes, and I can't, for the life of me, remember which day it was

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that we were there.

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Was it the Saturday or the Sunday?

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Because it was only one day that you went.

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We were there Saturday and Sunday.

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Todd went on Friday as well with Fiona.

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It was excessive, wasn't it?

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But the thing was, it wasn't.

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You just revelled in it.

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It was so amazing, the feeling.

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Let's move on to the episode itself, though.

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I think it absolutely is aware that it's being watched by a

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massive group of people and that this is a big deal.

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And just watching it yesterday.

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It just struck me how incredibly cinematic the beginning is.

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It's interesting what you say about like the number of people

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watching because this is probably the Doctor Who episode that's

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been washed by the most people ever at the same time.

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It was simulcast around the world.

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It, you know, like they, didn't they sort of work out that it had

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maybe like 90000000 viewers or something crazy like that across

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across all different countries.

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That's where it was brought.

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That's actually an interesting thing because, I mean, more so now

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but even by 2013, the need to watch something on broadcast had

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already started to fall away.

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So this idea of this communal experience where everyone you know

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is watching the same thing.

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Yeah, water cooler moments.

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Yeah, and having the water cooler moment, et cetera.

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And I think that this was obviously something that everyone did

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make the effort to watch as it went out.

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Um, even in the wee small hours of the morning, uh, at this side

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of the wall.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It was really quite early.

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Were you unspoiled?

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Does anyone remember whether they knew, for instance, that Tom was

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going to show up?

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didn't know that.

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That is one thing I did not know.

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Yeah, yeah, I didn't either.

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And I also think Capaldi appearing for just that brief shot is a

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pretty remarkable thing.

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This could have been anyone's eyes. don't think so.

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The eyebrows on the other hand.

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Their attack eyebrows.

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That's back eyebrows.

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It's funny though, with that scene, I mean, we're getting probably

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getting ahead of ourselves, but no, I didn't know that Tom was

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going to turn up, but basically about 15 seconds before he does

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you think Tom Baker's about to show up, isn't he?

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Oh, really?

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I actually had this kind of premonition when he says, I'm sure I

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did.

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I don't think I'm just, you know, thinking about this in

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retrospect.

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When, you know, everyone leaves Matt alone in front of the

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painting and the caretakers around.

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It was either going to be Tom or it was going to be Peter

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Capaldi.

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Oh, okay, yes, of course, of course.

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I mean, obviously, letting us hear his voice before we see him is

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absolutely the right move.

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We didn't mention who the director was in our last episode, but

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it's Nick Curran.

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Oh, the fabulous current.

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Yeah, it's amazing.

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And just talking about that scene with the curator, it absolutely

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gives you goosebumps, not just the way that it's scripted and Tom

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and Matt's brilliant chemistry, but it's directed beautifully with

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the cut to Tom suddenly being next to Matt where you've only heard

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his voice previously.

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And then when he leaves, he sort of fades into the background out

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of focus, as he parts the room, it's pretty amazing.

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Yeah, Harran's incredible, isn't he?

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I mean, I think he's one of the best directors of the modern era

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if not the best.

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And this episode tries to bring original series, Doctor Who, and

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new Doctor Who together.

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And I think that moment is the focus of it because not only do you

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have Tom Baker, the acme of original Doctor Who, opposite Matt

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Smith, and they really work well together.

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It feels like the marriage of the 2 parts of the series that

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you've been waiting for, all in one scene.

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Yeah.

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Well, I think that that's what this is doing, isn't it?

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And we had, you know, just in night of the doctor just a week or

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so ago we have the sisterhood of Khan being brought into the

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fold.

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This time we finally get zygons after, you know, imagining them

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turning up the most obvious sort of one shot monster to be

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recreated.

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And this is very much that.

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We end with a shot of all of the doctors, old and new series

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together in the, in the one show that's been kind of finally

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healed of the 16 year gap in the middle of it.

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And I mean, let's not be, um, you know, there was talk at the time

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that, you know, it couldn't be a proper anniversary special, unless

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it had Peter Davison and Colin Baker and Paul McGannon and that.

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I think they made the right choice.

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It was just, you needed to focus in on something.

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He couldn't just have a bunch of cameos by people who hadn't

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played the role for 30 years.

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No.

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No.

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And I mean, the 5 doctors basically is that.

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But in a sense, the 5 doctors is a children in need special.

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It's a light entertainment thing.

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It is we just haul everyone out to do their party piece and

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there's no story as such.

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Oh, I think that's a bit unkind.

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Yeah, you got Terrence Sticks, right?

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That's the criticism.

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No, no, I think you're redconning the fact that it was part of

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children in need to justify that.

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I mean, watching it as an 11 year old in Australia.

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Oh, it was the best thing ever.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Well, sorry, watching the last half hour of it. until it was

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repeated in January.

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The 5 Doctors is my earliest memory of Doctor Who.

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And you'd have been like three.

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Four, yeah, three, 3 or four.

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Yeah.

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But what we have here is a bit more ambitious than the 5 doctors

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because it is trying to tell a story about the doctor.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, I mean, you know, 5 doctors is confident and fun and funny

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and wonderful in all sorts of ways.

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And I guess it takes the same approach to story as these stars.

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I mean, this is telling 2 stories, but they're both individually

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fairly straightforward stories.

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There's a point that Moffat has made in interviews, which is that

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Doctor Who is rarely about the doctor and this story is about the

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doctor.

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The doctor is the focus of this story in a way that he events

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usually happen around him and he happens to events, but events

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don't happen to him.

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And you can't view the special in isolation.

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It's the day of the doctor, but we've also had the name of the

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doctor, the night of the doctor, and we will have the time of the

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doctor.

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So it's kind of the whole anniversary year is about the doctor and

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what he stands for.

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It's an episode about big things, deservedly, about big things.

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I think, you know, of course it's the 50th, but it's going to be

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about the biggest thing that we never saw in Doctor Who, which is

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the time war.

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And the time war is the thing, that Bridges, classic Doctor Who

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and new Doctor Who in the fiction of the show.

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Yeah.

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Yes, exactly.

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So how do what do we feel about how that's portrayed and how

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that's realised?

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Can I answer my own question?

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Yeah, please.

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That's one of the disappointments for me about it.

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I mean, I love it.

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There's so much about it to love.

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There's so much about this to love, but I just don't think it all

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quite lands.

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And unfortunately, the time war is as shown in those, not the very

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opening scene, but early on, I actually find it quite

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unimaginative.

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It sort of new Star Wars meets Terminator with all the operatic

254
00:12:14.700 --> 00:12:18.179
and coral incidental music, which says this is dramatic.

255
00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:23.519
Um, And if it's a time war, right?

256
00:12:23.580 --> 00:12:25.500
That implies something so much more exciting.

257
00:12:25.559 --> 00:12:26.220
This is just a war.

258
00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:28.440
What we're seeing is a war, right?

259
00:12:28.500 --> 00:12:29.940
That could be anything.

260
00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:31.259
Whereas a time war.

261
00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:32.759
You're talking about abstract.

262
00:12:32.820 --> 00:12:33.480
Exactly.

263
00:12:33.539 --> 00:12:37.980
A time war is something between 2 races capable of time travel.

264
00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:41.519
It almost needs to be incredibly funky, and the ultimate weapon is

265
00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:45.240
to go back in time and prevent your enemy from actually being born

266
00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:47.340
or whatever, which is kind of actually what the time lords tries

267
00:12:47.340 --> 00:12:48.779
to do in genesis of the Daleks, right?

268
00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:51.240
Which is what starts the time or...

269
00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:52.919
Well, but that's a good way.

270
00:12:52.980 --> 00:12:53.940
I don't know whether it's stated.

271
00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:54.960
It's not stated in the show.

272
00:12:55.019 --> 00:12:58.440
That was that was Russell's thinking.

273
00:12:58.500 --> 00:12:59.820
Yes, okay, but that's a backstory.

274
00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:03.299
That's not something that's...

275
00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:06.120
The Zigon's planet was destroyed in the early years of the time

276
00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:06.539
war.

277
00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:09.659
And we've had the nestings as well who've been affected by the

278
00:13:09.659 --> 00:13:10.740
time war as well.

279
00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:14.759
Russell's time war is utterly unfilmable, isn't it?

280
00:13:14.820 --> 00:13:16.379
And I think...

281
00:13:16.379 --> 00:13:16.980
Deservedly so.

282
00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:17.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

283
00:13:17.820 --> 00:13:21.480
You were mentioning the other day, like Russell's version of the

284
00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:22.980
time war is just completely.

285
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:24.720
Like you say, unfilmably.

286
00:13:24.779 --> 00:13:25.919
It's inconceivable.

287
00:13:25.980 --> 00:13:27.120
It's fantastic.

288
00:13:27.179 --> 00:13:30.299
It's...

289
00:13:30.299 --> 00:13:31.379
I don't know that any of that's true.

290
00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:34.379
Sorry, because I don't get the sense that when I hear that the

291
00:13:34.379 --> 00:13:36.840
fact that the Zygon planet, or the nesting planet, or whatever it

292
00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:39.360
is, is destroyed by the time war, I'm not getting that it's

293
00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:41.279
anything other than a great big bomb destroying.

294
00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:42.480
No, no, no, that's not what I mean.

295
00:13:42.539 --> 00:13:45.240
Like when Russell, like, writes about the time war.

296
00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:50.820
It is, like the language, the description is, you know, like, you

297
00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:53.159
know, the sometimes king, the nightmare child.

298
00:13:53.220 --> 00:13:54.539
That was a demonstration.

299
00:13:54.539 --> 00:13:56.039
Yeah.

300
00:13:56.100 --> 00:13:58.679
Yeah, yeah, so all that kind of stuff is just is just bollocks, you

301
00:13:58.679 --> 00:13:58.860
know.

302
00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:02.159
No, but it isn't, it doesn't, no, it's just words.

303
00:14:02.220 --> 00:14:04.919
It's not actually, it's not actually interesting.

304
00:14:04.980 --> 00:14:07.919
I think that gets to the heart of what you're saying, even if you

305
00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:10.080
don't particularly like the words that Russell uses.

306
00:14:10.139 --> 00:14:12.539
He's describing the war in abstract terms.

307
00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:15.539
So it's just this, it's just this thing off to the side, which you

308
00:14:15.539 --> 00:14:18.059
can, you can put anything onto it that you want to.

309
00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:20.220
Yeah, you can't imagine this is actually...

310
00:14:20.220 --> 00:14:21.120
No, no, fair, fair.

311
00:14:21.179 --> 00:14:22.019
And that's my point.

312
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:23.460
Fair enough, from that point of view.

313
00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:28.440
But I still think that there's a much more interesting way of, even

314
00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.919
if it's just a couple of lines of dialogue to describe the kinds

315
00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:35.220
of things that might be happening in a time war, which aren't just

316
00:14:35.220 --> 00:14:37.379
a whole lot of Dalek flying sauces attacking Gallifrey.

317
00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:42.299
I think, though, that the time war that we get here is the most

318
00:14:42.299 --> 00:14:44.340
gun time war imaginable.

319
00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:47.340
And that's why I don't like it, but that's why the doctor

320
00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:48.840
shouldn't be being involved in it.

321
00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:49.980
Exactly.

322
00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:51.960
I mean, I've never liked this kind of thing.

323
00:14:52.019 --> 00:14:54.960
I mean, Doctor is the soldier.

324
00:14:55.019 --> 00:14:58.980
I mean, you know, I spent my childhood watching, you know, the per

325
00:14:58.980 --> 00:15:00.179
wheat doctor on repeats.

326
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:04.980
I'm not that old. being anti-military, not in the same way that we

327
00:15:04.980 --> 00:15:08.460
come to see him Capaldi, but still being the gun is the last

328
00:15:08.460 --> 00:15:09.960
resort.

329
00:15:10.019 --> 00:15:12.419
I'm not saying it makes it terrible as a result.

330
00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:14.700
I'm just saying it makes it not nearly as interesting as it

331
00:15:14.700 --> 00:15:14.940
might.

332
00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:18.059
Surely that is the point of the episode in the character, the war

333
00:15:18.059 --> 00:15:23.039
doctor is to show that this war has perverted this character.

334
00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:27.840
And the purpose of the story is not just to heal the, you know, the

335
00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:30.779
division between the original and new series.

336
00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:36.000
It's to heal the damage that's been done to that character by the

337
00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:36.600
time war.

338
00:15:36.659 --> 00:15:37.200
Yeah.

339
00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:41.519
By Russell, you know, like Russell makes the doctor someone who

340
00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:43.799
has killed all of the time laws.

341
00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:44.460
Yeah, yeah.

342
00:15:44.460 --> 00:15:48.539
And we kind of justify that in end of time part too, because the

343
00:15:48.539 --> 00:15:53.519
time lords are now totally evil and utterly genocidal as well in a

344
00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:55.379
way that we're not going to mention in this end.

345
00:15:55.500 --> 00:15:56.759
In this episode.

346
00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:59.220
Well, hilary 4, this is arguably before the event.

347
00:15:59.220 --> 00:16:00.240
No, it's happening at the same time.

348
00:16:00.299 --> 00:16:03.360
Because the general says, oh, you know, the high council have

349
00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:06.779
their own plans or whatever, but then their plans are, let's kill

350
00:16:06.779 --> 00:16:07.139
everything.

351
00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:11.700
But it's not just that because like in end of time.

352
00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:15.419
There is a line, which is the moment has been stolen.

353
00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:16.679
Yeah Yeah.

354
00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:17.940
So Russell invents the moment.

355
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:18.360
Yes.

356
00:16:18.419 --> 00:16:18.960
Right, okay.

357
00:16:19.019 --> 00:16:22.139
And so this is this is actually red conning that.

358
00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:24.299
No, it's happening at the same time.

359
00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:29.460
Yeah, exactly. or in Arcadia or something at his sort of fabulous

360
00:16:29.460 --> 00:16:34.379
table and then Timothy Dalton's upstairs spitting and yelling at

361
00:16:34.379 --> 00:16:36.720
people and throwing time.

362
00:16:36.779 --> 00:16:39.960
Do we like the fact that all the gala friends seem to be dressed

363
00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:41.279
like this is Sisterhood of Khan?

364
00:16:41.340 --> 00:16:43.559
They will have the same kind of colour scheme.

365
00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:45.779
Maybe they're the other sisterhood of calm.

366
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:47.159
The London-based system.

367
00:16:47.460 --> 00:16:50.639
But the funny thing about that is are we getting a distinction in

368
00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:52.980
those time or sequences between gala frames and time lords?

369
00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:53.879
Maybe.

370
00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.940
Because there is that suggestion that time, not, you know, all

371
00:16:56.940 --> 00:16:58.860
time lords are gala frames, but not all gala frames.

372
00:16:58.919 --> 00:16:59.940
Maybe they're Shebogans.

373
00:17:00.059 --> 00:17:02.159
How terrible is boring. that would have been.

374
00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:05.160
Let's hope no one ever clears that up.

375
00:17:05.220 --> 00:17:08.519
I mean, that paging big finish. please don't do that.

376
00:17:08.579 --> 00:17:11.460
I have to say, I agree with both what Simon and James are saying.

377
00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:12.599
I agree with me more.

378
00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:14.759
I do agree with you.

379
00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:17.099
I agree with James that, you know, it's good.

380
00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:21.839
Yeah, it's really great that Moffat sets out to heal the idea of

381
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:22.980
the doctor as warrior.

382
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:25.680
I think that's a really interesting element to bring to the

383
00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:28.740
doctor's character that there was this part of him who had to act

384
00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:31.019
he didn't want to, and he's kind of shunned him and he shunned

385
00:17:31.019 --> 00:17:32.220
himself ever since.

386
00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:35.460
But what time I'm saying about kind of the way that the war is

387
00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:36.059
presented.

388
00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:37.980
I understand that it's for a wide audience.

389
00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:39.900
We want big effects and things like that.

390
00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:43.259
But as with the rest of this episode, and I really do like it.

391
00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:45.119
There's some brilliant parts of it.

392
00:17:45.180 --> 00:17:48.240
It felt like it was one or 2 drafts away from being really good.

393
00:17:48.299 --> 00:17:51.539
And I think if Moffat had had more time.

394
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:55.019
He might have come up with something cleverer to depict the actual

395
00:17:55.019 --> 00:17:58.019
time war rather than Daleks attacking from the sky and people

396
00:17:58.019 --> 00:17:58.500
running away.

397
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:02.220
Yeah, I worry that it's actually one or 2 drafts too many, maybe.

398
00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:04.380
It could be the other problem.

399
00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:05.160
Maybe, yeah.

400
00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:10.079
Do you think that's because this story went through production

401
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:10.799
hell?

402
00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:16.079
They did try and get Eccleston for quite a long time before he

403
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:16.619
said no?

404
00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:23.579
And there were also points at which, well, like after after series

405
00:18:23.579 --> 00:18:29.940
7 is completed, the only main cast member who is contracted to

406
00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:32.160
Doctor Who is Jenna Coleman.

407
00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:39.599
So there was a point where if Matt had actually gone, I'm done, no

408
00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:42.660
anniversary, especially, like he wrote a version of the script

409
00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:44.519
called The No Doctors.

410
00:18:44.579 --> 00:18:48.119
I mean, I mean, absence of the doctor.

411
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:51.359
I mean, I don't think that was ever seriously entertained very

412
00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:51.660
long.

413
00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:54.119
I think there was no indication that Matt was never going to come

414
00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:56.099
back, even though he was not officially under contract.

415
00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:56.880
Not contract.

416
00:18:56.940 --> 00:18:59.759
I think for maybe half a day, Moffat sat there thinking, if I

417
00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:01.619
don't have any doctors, what do I rise?

418
00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:04.980
But it was never a serious script or a version of the script.

419
00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:08.039
I think the thing that really mucked it up was that for a long

420
00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:11.039
time it was going to be Eccleston's doctor.

421
00:19:11.099 --> 00:19:13.859
And I think that would have made actually for a better story.

422
00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:16.559
It would have made for a more cohesive story within the fiction of

423
00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:17.099
Doctor Two.

424
00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:21.000
But having said that, if we couldn't get Eccleston, I think this

425
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:22.140
was an elegant way out of it.

426
00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:25.140
Yeah, I don't think that it changes it all that much.

427
00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:28.440
I think it's just nicer for us as fans had Eccleston been in

428
00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:28.619
there.

429
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:32.460
But I don't actually think fun, and obviously some things would

430
00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:34.799
have been different, but at the same time, I don't know whether

431
00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:37.500
certain fundamental things that I'm complaining about would have

432
00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:37.980
actually been different.

433
00:19:38.099 --> 00:19:40.500
I kind of disagree with that.

434
00:19:40.619 --> 00:19:45.539
I think it's actually better for having heard in it because not

435
00:19:45.539 --> 00:19:48.720
just their sort of superficial points where, you know, like

436
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:51.660
Eccleston in-rose is newly regenerated.

437
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:52.559
It's very clear.

438
00:19:52.619 --> 00:19:53.339
Yes, it's very clear.

439
00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:57.000
And, you know, so it doesn't work in that on that level, but I

440
00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:01.380
think it doesn't work for the character because this is not a man

441
00:20:01.380 --> 00:20:04.380
who would commit genocide.

442
00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:09.119
This is a man who has committed genocide and regrets it and is

443
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:10.319
completely broken by it.

444
00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:11.039
So.

445
00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:13.740
But do we know how different the Eccleston version would have

446
00:20:13.740 --> 00:20:13.920
been?

447
00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:17.519
Was the Eccles still in version, anything more than a script

448
00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:19.380
outline is what I'm sort of saying?

449
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:22.920
I don't think it ever leaked, but I do know that Stephen wrote

450
00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:25.559
some of it because he showed it to Christopher Angleston.

451
00:20:25.619 --> 00:20:26.099
Yeah.

452
00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:32.759
And then, like, seriously considered it being McGann's doctor.

453
00:20:32.819 --> 00:20:33.960
But then the baby C rejected.

454
00:20:34.019 --> 00:20:35.700
And the BBC said, no, he's not big enough.

455
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:37.380
Paul McCann.

456
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:38.160
It wouldn't have really mattered.

457
00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:40.740
But again, surely for the purposes of the 50s.

458
00:20:41.220 --> 00:20:41.819
What does it matter?

459
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:44.759
Yeah, if you can get John Hurt, parachute John Hurt into the

460
00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:44.940
show.

461
00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:45.660
Yeah, that's right.

462
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:48.059
It gives us John Hurt, a seriously good actor.

463
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:49.380
Yeah, seriously.

464
00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:50.700
What the hell is he doing in this time?

465
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:52.380
Oh, I can't do anything.

466
00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:55.140
They are, but it also...

467
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:57.720
It helps with that healing with the old series because he's an old

468
00:20:57.720 --> 00:20:58.200
man doctor.

469
00:20:58.259 --> 00:21:00.119
He's a heart and all or a pert one.

470
00:21:00.180 --> 00:21:02.039
And so we need that figure in the story.

471
00:21:02.099 --> 00:21:05.819
Because what you wouldn't have got with Eccleston is the hilarious

472
00:21:05.819 --> 00:21:11.400
critique that he brings to his success as performance ticks and

473
00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:12.299
character and all of that.

474
00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:14.220
It's amongst my favourite parts of the story.

475
00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:14.819
It really great.

476
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:16.980
Because, I mean, Tennant makes fun of him.

477
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:20.519
You know, I'm really digging the sort of posh gravel.

478
00:21:24.420 --> 00:21:27.299
And so he gets to do that.

479
00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:31.319
And so that's a big element of the old series that would otherwise

480
00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:32.519
not have been there.

481
00:21:32.579 --> 00:21:36.720
I don't think you can have Eccleston critiquing his successes

482
00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:38.099
because he's like them.

483
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:41.819
Yes, he's part of the new thing.

484
00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:45.720
In some respects, John Heard is the distillation of the original

485
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:46.680
series doctrinist.

486
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:49.980
Yes, they brought back Peter Davis and it would have turned to

487
00:21:49.980 --> 00:21:52.799
David Tennant and said, do try and speak English.

488
00:22:09.660 --> 00:22:11.819
Do people want to say nice things?

489
00:22:11.819 --> 00:22:13.319
I've got not nice things to do.

490
00:22:13.380 --> 00:22:15.180
I have nice things to say.

491
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:16.859
Not nice things to say about the repartee.

492
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:18.660
Oh, well, that's the best part of it for me.

493
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:19.259
Talk about it.

494
00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:21.720
Yeah, no, I mean, I just think those lines are funny.

495
00:22:21.779 --> 00:22:24.599
It's what we've come to expect from a multi doctor special.

496
00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:27.180
Yeah, you know, they make fun of one another and that's sort of

497
00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:27.960
terribly great.

498
00:22:28.019 --> 00:22:30.359
And just all of those sort of moffety lines.

499
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:36.119
I think the moment after Tenet critiques John Hurt for his

500
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:40.440
gravelly posh voice, that's the moment where Matt Smith calls him

501
00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:44.400
Dick Van Dyke. of his patently crap.

502
00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:46.259
London accent.

503
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:49.680
But the 1st line from Matt, though, about, well, I've never seen

504
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:50.460
it from the outside.

505
00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:52.200
That's like special.

506
00:22:53.700 --> 00:22:56.519
Yeah, it's it's just nice for them to.

507
00:22:56.579 --> 00:22:59.400
I mean, it's the old sort of fancy pants scarecrow. on speed.

508
00:22:59.460 --> 00:23:02.519
And I don't know whether it's the sort of the bickering between

509
00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:06.539
you know, Trouton and Pertwee and the 3 doctors that means that

510
00:23:06.539 --> 00:23:08.460
this has to become a staple.

511
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:11.400
I mean, that's it clearly what everything has been based on in

512
00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:14.099
every multi doctor gathering is those scenes from the 3 doctors

513
00:23:14.099 --> 00:23:15.059
and they are unbeatable.

514
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:18.240
Yeah, and arguably that's one of the things wrong with the 5

515
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:21.059
doctors is that there isn't enough doctors together.

516
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:23.819
Yes, I mean, that bit of pairs.

517
00:23:23.819 --> 00:23:27.599
Yeah, that bit at the end of the 2 doctors where the 2nd doctor

518
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:30.299
turns to the 6th and says, I think space and time should be big

519
00:23:30.299 --> 00:23:31.259
enough for the 2 of us.

520
00:23:31.259 --> 00:23:32.220
Just.

521
00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:36.119
It is one of my favourite parts.

522
00:23:36.180 --> 00:23:37.559
No, no, no.

523
00:23:37.619 --> 00:23:41.519
The justice because he's just eaten a whole family pay area.

524
00:23:41.579 --> 00:23:42.180
Oh, okay, yeah.

525
00:23:42.180 --> 00:23:43.319
And all the rest of it at the restaurant.

526
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:46.440
I always took that as him looking at Colin saying, no, no, no, no

527
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:47.400
no, no.

528
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:49.380
In the chest, because he cuts his stomach.

529
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:52.619
Yeah, his stomach because he's eaten it all at Oscar Botchibi's

530
00:23:52.619 --> 00:23:52.799
restaurant.

531
00:23:52.859 --> 00:23:53.460
Yeah, yeah.

532
00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:54.299
At Las Cadina.

533
00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:55.859
But also he does...

534
00:23:55.859 --> 00:23:58.319
He also does kind of look Colin up and down.

535
00:23:58.319 --> 00:23:58.859
Exactly.

536
00:23:58.920 --> 00:23:59.640
It's funny.

537
00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:02.279
I'll have to watch the Bluey. doesn't he?

538
00:24:02.339 --> 00:24:02.940
He does.

539
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:03.599
He does.

540
00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:04.740
He gives him a very side.

541
00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:05.819
He gives him side eye.

542
00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:10.500
Anyway, what don't you like about the repartee, how dare you?

543
00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:12.599
It's Stephen Moffat.

544
00:24:12.660 --> 00:24:13.799
He's a sitcom writer.

545
00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:16.200
A very accomplished and skilful sitcom writer.

546
00:24:16.259 --> 00:24:17.099
I think it's fun.

547
00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:20.819
I think it's really fun and I like the repartee between David

548
00:24:20.819 --> 00:24:23.819
Tennant and Matt Smith, but it doesn't quite hit the spot for me

549
00:24:23.819 --> 00:24:24.180
sometimes.

550
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:28.259
There are some funny and there are some charming moments, mostly

551
00:24:28.259 --> 00:24:31.619
in the performances, but I think it's a little bit purele with the

552
00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:36.059
whole sand shoes, chinny, skinny, I just, I just don't think it

553
00:24:36.059 --> 00:24:37.980
really holds a candle too.

554
00:24:38.099 --> 00:24:40.680
So you're my replacement is a dandy and a cloud, which is the

555
00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:42.539
absolute height.

556
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:45.240
Yeah, that withering put down from the 1st doctor.

557
00:24:45.299 --> 00:24:47.400
I just I mean, I don't hate it.

558
00:24:47.460 --> 00:24:48.119
Don't get me wrong.

559
00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:48.960
I do enjoy it.

560
00:24:49.019 --> 00:24:51.720
I just, I felt it wasn't quite clever enough, to be honest.

561
00:24:51.779 --> 00:24:53.700
It's interesting because I would agree that some of those, you

562
00:24:53.700 --> 00:24:56.099
know, little criticisms are a bit puerile, but because they're

563
00:24:56.099 --> 00:24:58.319
generally just thrown away, I don't think it matters.

564
00:24:58.380 --> 00:25:01.619
I think that's why it's, it works for me is because they're just

565
00:25:01.619 --> 00:25:04.200
they're just included in a sentence rather than signposted too

566
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:04.380
much.

567
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:07.259
I mean, I think it's kind of the tyranny of high expectations.

568
00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:09.599
I expect Moffatt's dialogue to be so clever.

569
00:25:09.660 --> 00:25:13.440
And I just didn't really find these kind of these traded barbs all

570
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:13.920
that clever.

571
00:25:13.980 --> 00:25:16.859
Am I saying that he doesn't reach the heights of Bob Baker and

572
00:25:16.859 --> 00:25:17.279
Dave Martin?

573
00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:17.940
I might be saying that.

574
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:21.240
But I think is script edited by Terrence Steve.

575
00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:21.779
Well, yes.

576
00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:26.460
But I mean, is he keeping his powder dry for the big scene, which

577
00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:29.940
is in some ways the most important scene of the episode, which is

578
00:25:29.940 --> 00:25:36.299
the 3 doctors together in the tower, where a real proper critique

579
00:25:36.299 --> 00:25:42.299
starts to happen, where tenants doctor critiques Smith for not

580
00:25:42.299 --> 00:25:44.819
caring about what happened.

581
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:48.599
He can't remember any longer how many children were killed.

582
00:25:48.660 --> 00:25:50.099
Is that how long it takes to forget?

583
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:51.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

584
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:55.319
And then kind of Matt critiquing tenet for not moving on for not

585
00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:56.460
for dwelling on it.

586
00:25:56.579 --> 00:25:58.680
Yeah, there is a shift in tone there.

587
00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:01.019
And that's a very good description to have.

588
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:02.160
Yeah, it absolutely is.

589
00:26:02.220 --> 00:26:05.279
And I like the fact that it shifts from the usual kind of, so

590
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:08.220
you're my replacements dialogue to being about something more.

591
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:08.759
That's good.

592
00:26:08.819 --> 00:26:12.180
Because I think it's the 1st time the doctor has had a really

593
00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:16.319
serious event in his history that he can react to as a character.

594
00:26:16.380 --> 00:26:21.000
And so the 2 doctors who are there react differently and critique

595
00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:22.140
one another.

596
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:24.720
Whereas, you know, usually Doctor Who's just a whole bunch of

597
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:27.599
stuff that happened and then we forget it at the end of episode 4

598
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:31.319
that get on with our lives. you know, this big event that's kind

599
00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:35.519
of distorted the program and weighed down on the character in a

600
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:39.779
really big way is something that the 2 characters can have genuine

601
00:26:39.779 --> 00:26:40.500
differences about.

602
00:26:41.339 --> 00:26:44.279
One of the disappointments that I have with it.

603
00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:46.500
And this is, again, the, you know, the problem with high

604
00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:49.980
expectations is one of the joys of the multidoctor specials is

605
00:26:49.980 --> 00:26:53.819
always having a mix-up of a doctor and a companion.

606
00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:58.019
You know, you have having Perry with Trouton for a bit in the 2

607
00:26:58.019 --> 00:26:58.859
dogs, for instance.

608
00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:03.000
And you kind of miss that here because Billy is not playing rose.

609
00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:04.500
Billy is playing the moment.

610
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:05.940
Yeah.

611
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:08.460
I don't think Rose fits in here.

612
00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:10.259
Like, I just think that that's too much.

613
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:13.799
And I think that Moffatt makes the right decision to give her a

614
00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:15.900
different character to play.

615
00:27:15.900 --> 00:27:18.599
And it's the usual kind of Moffatt thing.

616
00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:21.960
It's a little bit like Idris not being able to tell the difference

617
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:23.579
between the past and the future.

618
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:24.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

619
00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:26.579
And so, but and I think she's magnificent.

620
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:28.740
Oh, she's superb. she is excellent.

621
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:30.779
I don't deny any of that.

622
00:27:30.900 --> 00:27:34.680
It's just that it's the 11 year old in me watching the 5 doctors

623
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:37.740
and then the 2 doctors a few years later and loving that sort of

624
00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:40.200
thing and just thinking totally with Simon.

625
00:27:40.259 --> 00:27:43.019
Wouldn't it be great if you've had a scene with Rose and Matt

626
00:27:43.019 --> 00:27:43.859
Smith, you know?

627
00:27:43.859 --> 00:27:49.680
It just, I think Clara and Clara and Tennant, or Clara...

628
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:51.720
Yes, and that, so you get a little bit of it from that point of

629
00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:51.839
view.

630
00:27:51.900 --> 00:27:52.259
Yeah.

631
00:27:52.259 --> 00:27:55.859
I mean, you kind of want Susan with the 5th doctor and like you

632
00:27:55.859 --> 00:27:59.039
said in the 2 doctors, Jamie with the 6th doctor and Perry with

633
00:27:59.039 --> 00:27:59.819
the 2nd doctor.

634
00:27:59.880 --> 00:28:02.160
It's a heartwarming fan glow.

635
00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:05.160
I do think there's not enough room in this story for it.

636
00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:08.759
I'm not sure how David Tennant turning up with Martha or something

637
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:12.359
would have impacted the special well, but...

638
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:15.000
Any companion would have been barely, they'd have had very, like, 4

639
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:17.339
lines and have been 3 scenes kind of thing.

640
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:19.200
Imagine if they've got Catherine Tape back.

641
00:28:19.259 --> 00:28:23.819
For example, we should have had more lines than that. whether they

642
00:28:23.819 --> 00:28:24.599
were in the script or not.

643
00:28:24.660 --> 00:28:28.019
I'd say, it would have been beautiful if in the last scene Martha

644
00:28:28.019 --> 00:28:30.900
had come to the door of the Tars and said, come on, doctor, where

645
00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:31.380
have you been?

646
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:33.779
Just a little cameo like that would have maybe go, oh.

647
00:28:40.740 --> 00:28:43.440
He is very restrained, isn't he?

648
00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:48.240
In that the two stories that he tells in this episode are fairly

649
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:52.740
straightforward, and he has like nearly an hour and 20 minutes to

650
00:28:52.740 --> 00:28:57.660
play with, and that does give the story time to breathe.

651
00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:03.420
I think it's not as frenetic as some other new series episodes

652
00:29:03.420 --> 00:29:04.019
have been.

653
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:08.160
And so it just gives us time to do that character exploration

654
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:10.500
which is so crucial for what this story is doing.

655
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:14.099
I mean, I think sometimes it gives it a little bit too much time

656
00:29:14.099 --> 00:29:14.940
to breathe.

657
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.960
I think those early scenes with David Tennant and Elizabeth go on

658
00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:19.259
forever.

659
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:21.420
But I've been self-indulgent.

660
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:21.960
Yes, they are.

661
00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:24.779
But I mean, the opening scene where we do this that sort of giant

662
00:29:24.779 --> 00:29:28.559
set piece with the helicopter flying over London and suddenly

663
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:29.579
London's back.

664
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:31.680
Yeah, you can't not...

665
00:29:31.859 --> 00:29:33.660
Yeah, I mean that's a great way to start the show.

666
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:37.440
Oh, but we haven't spoken about the way the program really does

667
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:40.440
start with the fabulous recreation of the heart and laughing

668
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:44.099
credits in widescreen. wide screen stereo.

669
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:47.099
And when I say widescreen, I mean widescreen, not stretched.

670
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:48.059
Yes.

671
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:48.660
Yeah.

672
00:29:48.660 --> 00:29:49.859
Yeah.

673
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:51.660
I mean, I love that thing too.

674
00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:53.519
We're back at Coal Hill School as well.

675
00:29:53.579 --> 00:29:55.980
Now, is that by any chance the same building as Remembrance?

676
00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:00.480
No, no, no, that's in that building is in Wales.

677
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:01.019
Is it right?

678
00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:01.440
Okay.

679
00:30:01.500 --> 00:30:06.059
I do love the name of the head of the board of governors.

680
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:09.480
Yes, it's...

681
00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:12.539
I like the fact that the doctors put a convenient sign towards the

682
00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:15.839
scrapyard right up next to the school in case Susan loses her way

683
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:16.740
in the fog.

684
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:20.819
But like, I mean, in an earthly child.

685
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:22.619
She is quite far away from the school.

686
00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:25.619
They have to get in a car and follow her.

687
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:27.000
No, it's cheating.

688
00:30:27.059 --> 00:30:27.599
It's terrible.

689
00:30:27.660 --> 00:30:28.740
Like whatever.

690
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:32.400
It's just that, like, they've taken the door off the hinges.

691
00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:34.980
Finally, it's just sort of lying there for no particular reason.

692
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:36.059
It is very odd.

693
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:40.859
But, I mean, that whole scene is terrifically funny and Matt and

694
00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:44.220
Jenna are wonderful together, like that, you know, will there be

695
00:30:44.220 --> 00:30:46.200
cocktail scene, the Florana speech.

696
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:48.720
Do you notice the time of the clock?

697
00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:49.559
No.

698
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:50.579
It's 516.

699
00:30:50.819 --> 00:30:54.839
Oh, right. which is when the 1st episode went out.

700
00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:55.440
Yeah, perfect.

701
00:30:55.500 --> 00:30:57.599
We're about to tune in for a brand new adventure.

702
00:30:59.819 --> 00:31:05.279
Yeah, but all that stuff with Queen Elizabeth in the Zygon is a

703
00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:07.079
bit tedious and I hate to say it.

704
00:31:07.140 --> 00:31:09.900
I mean, Zygons are something that I've wanted to have come back

705
00:31:09.900 --> 00:31:11.640
for the entirety of my family.

706
00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:15.059
And is something that has been missing.

707
00:31:15.180 --> 00:31:19.799
And unfortunately, once again, it's like, I think the essence of

708
00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:23.759
what makes the Zygons, what made the Zygons great is lost.

709
00:31:23.819 --> 00:31:26.940
They just become this sort of thing.

710
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:29.039
Slavering, lurching.

711
00:31:29.099 --> 00:31:33.720
Rather than this claustrophobic, insidious, dangerous sort of

712
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:34.140
thing.

713
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:36.059
They're just a comic, a bit of comedy, really.

714
00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:37.440
They certainly become that.

715
00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:38.460
Dare I say it?

716
00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:39.720
John Wood nutty enough.

717
00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:41.940
Yeah, well I think that that's probably the thing.

718
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:45.720
I think that it's the fact that they don't get to be characters

719
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:48.299
outside of being Zygon.

720
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:51.420
I want my zygons to say the polar ice caps must go.

721
00:31:51.420 --> 00:31:54.240
I mean, the camera...

722
00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:58.559
I don't want them to lurch from the shadows going, there.

723
00:31:58.619 --> 00:32:01.740
My family has served this county for 7 centuries, but that seems

724
00:32:01.740 --> 00:32:02.759
not to count these days.

725
00:32:02.819 --> 00:32:05.940
Was that was that Broton or was that Tom doing Broton?

726
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:07.140
I do beg your pardon?

727
00:32:07.380 --> 00:32:09.599
They really missed a trick.

728
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:14.700
Not having one of the Zygons have a door slammed in their face

729
00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:17.160
they could whisper, open this door.

730
00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:23.940
But oh, the bit with Osgood and the inhaler is great, especially

731
00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:27.299
after they've had their memories wiped and, you know, the zygon

732
00:32:27.299 --> 00:32:30.059
one passes over the inhaler and then puts finger to the lips.

733
00:32:30.059 --> 00:32:31.319
That's so good.

734
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:33.720
That's such a great episode.

735
00:32:33.779 --> 00:32:35.039
It's kind of like...

736
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:36.359
That's actually the human.

737
00:32:36.420 --> 00:32:38.880
Like she took her puffer back.

738
00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:41.279
She hands it to the Zygon gosh.

739
00:32:41.339 --> 00:32:45.119
No, but when the Zigon, but when the Zigon, I was good.

740
00:32:45.180 --> 00:32:49.079
In the previous sequence, Zygon Osgood looks over her, she's, you

741
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:51.960
know, on the floor crying and whatever, you know, in a state and

742
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:54.359
says, oh, I hate having one with a defect.

743
00:32:54.420 --> 00:32:55.559
Can I have my inhaler, please?

744
00:32:55.619 --> 00:32:58.799
And so the Zigon would have the inhaler at that point.

745
00:32:58.859 --> 00:33:02.339
No, no, no, she pulls, she pulls the scarf and runs off.

746
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:06.299
She escapes the Zigon and takes her and takes her puffer back.

747
00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:06.779
Sorry.

748
00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:08.400
I watched it last time.

749
00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:10.980
Okay, okay, no, okay, that's an important distinction though.

750
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:12.299
Well, it's nice though.

751
00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:14.099
It kind of works nicely either way.

752
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:15.180
They know.

753
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:19.079
Like, they actually realise which one is the...

754
00:33:19.140 --> 00:33:21.839
Yes, their memory's been erased in safaris, which ones are Zigon

755
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:24.420
and which ones are humid, but not in that which one of them has

756
00:33:24.420 --> 00:33:24.960
the inhaler.

757
00:33:25.019 --> 00:33:26.460
No, but so they've worked it out.

758
00:33:26.519 --> 00:33:27.359
Yes, exactly.

759
00:33:27.420 --> 00:33:27.900
They worked it out.

760
00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:28.380
Yes, yes.

761
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:32.339
The thing is that they both agree to it.

762
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:36.599
So they're not agreeing to this thing for space reasons because

763
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:37.859
their mind has been white.

764
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:42.480
They're actually going along with this negotiation plan because

765
00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:44.400
they realise it's best for all of them.

766
00:33:44.460 --> 00:33:45.839
Yeah, it's very good.

767
00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:48.059
And it's such a great moment. such a great character moment as

768
00:33:48.059 --> 00:33:50.099
well because it makes you realise that actually there might be

769
00:33:50.099 --> 00:33:53.940
some kind of affinity between the Zigon and the human that it's

770
00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:56.400
copied, but there might be something going on there because they

771
00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:59.880
do share this little smile with each other and you think, I think

772
00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:00.960
they probably like each other.

773
00:34:01.019 --> 00:34:05.039
And I think that will be continued in the Zygon 2 parter that's

774
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:06.000
coming up in future years.

775
00:34:06.059 --> 00:34:07.559
Which I think is extremely good.

776
00:34:07.619 --> 00:34:08.699
I have to say.

777
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:10.139
I mean, that looks good again.

778
00:34:10.139 --> 00:34:13.139
That look is the basis of an entire two-parter.

779
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:14.280
Basically, yeah.

780
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:17.579
But her performance is just generally so good.

781
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:19.260
She's wonderful.

782
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:23.519
It's just such a shame that we have such a fan pleasing thing as

783
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:26.760
bringing the Saigons back, which I'm totally on board with, but

784
00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:28.739
then we lose what their essence is.

785
00:34:28.860 --> 00:34:31.440
We lose what they could be any monster being brought back.

786
00:34:31.500 --> 00:34:32.699
And I think that would be ice warriors.

787
00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:37.679
Yeah, and I actually think that it's a waste in this 50th because

788
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:39.719
there's too much else to do.

789
00:34:39.780 --> 00:34:43.800
And so you're not going to bring them back with the right amount

790
00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:44.400
of bang.

791
00:34:44.460 --> 00:34:45.480
That's right.

792
00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:48.059
And the reason that they're quite of slavering monsters is that

793
00:34:48.059 --> 00:34:50.460
they don't have anything particularly Zigon-esque to do.

794
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:51.300
Exactly.

795
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:53.940
There's nothing really for them to do, and that's the problem.

796
00:34:54.059 --> 00:34:56.039
It's a very one-dimensional bit of story.

797
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:58.139
They are plot device.

798
00:34:58.199 --> 00:34:58.619
Exactly.

799
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:02.159
In fact, it's the story that's interrupted by the moment

800
00:35:02.219 --> 00:35:03.840
effectively, yeah.

801
00:35:03.900 --> 00:35:08.639
So it's not an important story in itself and it's slightly weird

802
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:12.239
that both doctors are involved in it from different ends as well.

803
00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:13.079
Yeah, yeah.

804
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:16.860
But it is extremely thin, like not very much happens and so we

805
00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:20.159
don't get the opportunity to hear very much from the zygons.

806
00:35:20.219 --> 00:35:23.880
There's that one that comes in and speaks to Queen Elizabeth with

807
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:27.539
the whispering voice, but otherwise we don't get any of that.

808
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:29.699
And actually, I don't like the Queen Elizabeth.

809
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:32.280
I don't think you mean, she's no Cape Blanchard.

810
00:35:32.340 --> 00:35:35.099
You weren't a fan of Gavin and Stacy?

811
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:36.840
This is Stacy from Gavin and Stacy.

812
00:35:36.900 --> 00:35:37.440
I didn't watch that.

813
00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:39.480
So she is... well there you go.

814
00:35:39.539 --> 00:35:43.260
See, being cast because you're someone is not a good decision.

815
00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:44.579
Well, no, we don't know.

816
00:35:44.579 --> 00:35:45.179
Did you hear us?

817
00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:45.900
She was cast.

818
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:46.320
What?

819
00:35:46.380 --> 00:35:47.099
Yes, exactly.

820
00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:48.000
Yes, is anyone?

821
00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:53.219
Like, I don't mind her, but...

822
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:53.940
Yeah, yeah.

823
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:57.900
I just think it's, it felt like it needed a star name and needed a

824
00:35:57.900 --> 00:35:58.619
dare I say it?

825
00:35:58.679 --> 00:36:02.579
Helen Mirren or someone like that to actually lift those scenes

826
00:36:02.579 --> 00:36:03.900
because it's someone like that playing her.

827
00:36:04.019 --> 00:36:06.119
But you're kind of suggesting that it isn't star name.

828
00:36:06.179 --> 00:36:09.960
No, but it needs a star name who's a star name because they're

829
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:10.260
really good.

830
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:13.019
Yeah, as opposed to just being...

831
00:36:13.019 --> 00:36:14.699
She's a comedy.

832
00:36:14.699 --> 00:36:15.420
A comedy star.

833
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:16.139
Yeah, yeah.

834
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:19.559
She's a wellknown actress for television at this point.

835
00:36:19.619 --> 00:36:20.639
Yeah.

836
00:36:20.699 --> 00:36:22.380
So it's a reasonably big coup.

837
00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:25.320
She is, I mean, she does get some pretty funny lines.

838
00:36:25.380 --> 00:36:29.940
I do like the, I may have had the body of a feeble woman.

839
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:30.780
Yeah, that's pretty good.

840
00:36:30.900 --> 00:36:33.780
I think, though, that's a pre-existing line.

841
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:34.199
I know.

842
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:37.079
Deploying it to involve Zygon.

843
00:36:37.139 --> 00:36:37.500
Yes.

844
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:45.840
The problem is when you have to set it to have a young Elizabeth.

845
00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:49.380
Yeah, who are your choices for a famous gravitas?

846
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:51.059
Yeah. actress?

847
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:54.000
We've already seen that, hadn't we?

848
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:56.159
In Shakespeare code.

849
00:36:56.219 --> 00:36:59.880
And so this is kind of Moffatt delivering on a running gag that

850
00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:00.900
Russell has.

851
00:37:01.260 --> 00:37:06.659
So firstly, the Shakespeare code, we get Queen Elizabeth is angry

852
00:37:06.659 --> 00:37:09.480
at the doctor for something and we don't know what it is.

853
00:37:09.539 --> 00:37:14.219
Yeah, then in end of time, part one, we discover he's just had sex

854
00:37:14.219 --> 00:37:15.000
with her or something.

855
00:37:15.780 --> 00:37:18.840
And then we see the marriage finally.

856
00:37:18.900 --> 00:37:21.300
And there are the references to Queen Elizabeth as well throughout

857
00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:21.780
the program.

858
00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:24.960
I mean, apart from the fact that at the end of Curse of Pilladorn

859
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:28.739
they're going to dash off to the 1st part one of the chase.

860
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:33.659
No, but there's, but there isn't there, isn't there another

861
00:37:33.659 --> 00:37:38.880
reference to in, in a Christmas carol, maybe, about, um, queen

862
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:40.320
singers, people making it confused?

863
00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:43.739
He does get married again in the Christmas carol to Marilyn.

864
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:44.280
Monroe.

865
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:44.820
Yes, yes.

866
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:49.260
And so we have seen that the doctor is married 3 times.

867
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:50.460
It's a river song.

868
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:51.539
He's a polygamist.

869
00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:53.579
Well, you know they die.

870
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:58.139
Red song, Kameka, first.

871
00:37:58.139 --> 00:37:58.920
No, proposed.

872
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:01.079
That's a proposal.

873
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:02.400
Yeah, engage through it.

874
00:38:02.460 --> 00:38:04.019
He leaves her at the altar.

875
00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:20.460
It's that thing about modern takes.

876
00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:22.139
We were talking about the time lords before.

877
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:24.780
And don't get me wrong, I do like this episode.

878
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:27.900
I think it hits with what it set out to do, especially with the

879
00:38:27.900 --> 00:38:30.840
general public, but there's something about the modern takes in

880
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:32.940
this episode, which don't quite work.

881
00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:37.920
So we talked about the Zygons and how their reimagination doesn't

882
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:40.500
really hit, but the time lords don't hit for me as well.

883
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:43.500
We talked about this on the end of time podcast that we did.

884
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:47.159
It's jettisoned everything that was interesting about the time

885
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:47.639
lords.

886
00:38:47.699 --> 00:38:49.380
They're kind of their academic society.

887
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:51.179
So not very much then.

888
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:55.920
You should have seen Nathan's face just then.

889
00:38:56.340 --> 00:38:58.860
I mean, actually, that is the point.

890
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:00.179
The only person who ever made.

891
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:01.199
No arc of Infinity.

892
00:39:02.099 --> 00:39:07.320
The only person who ever made Time Lord's interesting was Bob Hose

893
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:08.699
in the Deadly Assassin.

894
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:12.480
And it mystified me in the end of time, how Russell ejected all of

895
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:16.019
those trappings about, you know, the academic structure of the

896
00:39:16.019 --> 00:39:18.239
society and the politics behind the scenes.

897
00:39:18.300 --> 00:39:20.159
And that was what made them interesting.

898
00:39:20.219 --> 00:39:24.239
They just turned out to be ranting cod Shakespearean characters in

899
00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:24.840
their time.

900
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:27.539
And Moffat takes that and runs with it here.

901
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:30.059
And so those scenes with the time Lords are so uninteresting.

902
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:32.099
Yeah, it's lazy writing again, I think.

903
00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:33.719
Well, not so much lazy.

904
00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:34.679
I'm just not sure.

905
00:39:34.739 --> 00:39:38.639
Again, maybe he didn't have the time or the drafts to kind of do

906
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:39.780
anything interesting with those.

907
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:41.159
It's just slightly disappointing.

908
00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:45.000
Like Moffat does jettison the Russell idea that the time lords are

909
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:47.039
massively evil and are going to kill everyone.

910
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:49.260
That slightly needed to be destroyed.

911
00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:54.659
And that puts a different moral kind of cast on the decision to

912
00:39:54.659 --> 00:39:58.199
blow them up, you know, the doctor blew up the timelines because

913
00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:01.079
he knew that what they were planning was to basically kill

914
00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:04.980
everything and become immortal aliens.

915
00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:07.139
Is that the Russell reason why he did it?

916
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:08.159
Or is it...

917
00:40:08.280 --> 00:40:11.760
Because, I mean, for me, at least in this, the reason why the war

918
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:15.420
doctor is going to do it is that there is no way to stop the

919
00:40:15.420 --> 00:40:17.340
violence, to stop the collateral damage.

920
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:19.320
The only way to stop the collateral damage of all these other

921
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:22.800
planets being affected is to basically destroy the dogs and the

922
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:23.400
time lords.

923
00:40:23.460 --> 00:40:23.940
Yeah.

924
00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:27.360
There's that line that we were talking about now Night to the

925
00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:27.840
Doctor podcast.

926
00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:30.840
She wanted to see the universe.

927
00:40:30.900 --> 00:40:32.639
Yeah, she didn't miss much.

928
00:40:32.699 --> 00:40:37.320
It's very nearly over, is what Oheila says in response to that.

929
00:40:37.380 --> 00:40:39.659
And so it does threaten everywhere.

930
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:40.800
So that's right.

931
00:40:40.860 --> 00:40:45.599
But end of time reveals an extra bit of information that the

932
00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:49.199
timelords are worse than the Daleks, because what they're planning

933
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:53.579
is sort of ascension where everything else is destroyed and they

934
00:40:53.579 --> 00:40:56.820
become sort of disembodied rulers of what's left.

935
00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:59.219
So killing them was to stop that.

936
00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:03.420
But there is space, there is space in this for both of those

937
00:41:03.420 --> 00:41:07.440
interpretations because it is the High Council, not all of the

938
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:08.039
High Council.

939
00:41:08.099 --> 00:41:11.340
It's basically Rastalon, like wanting to do this.

940
00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:15.000
The, you know, these are the time lords who have been living this

941
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:15.840
war who appear.

942
00:41:15.900 --> 00:41:16.860
Yeah, they're downstairs.

943
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:19.380
Yeah, like he's upstairs, they're downstairs.

944
00:41:19.619 --> 00:41:23.460
And then there's, you know, the gala friends in the street who

945
00:41:23.460 --> 00:41:25.019
don't have a choice in the matter either.

946
00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:28.980
Yeah, so in a way, it's entirely consistent with what we know

947
00:41:28.980 --> 00:41:31.559
about the time wards previously and that there's always been a few

948
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:32.639
bad actors.

949
00:41:32.699 --> 00:41:34.619
Well, in many ways.

950
00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:40.559
There's always been a few bad actors within their society.

951
00:41:40.619 --> 00:41:43.679
It's just for the time lords to be interesting.

952
00:41:43.739 --> 00:41:45.840
They need to be whimsical in some ways.

953
00:41:45.900 --> 00:41:50.159
There needs to be a spandrel. and an Engian and a Hill Red who

954
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:51.420
can't get his act together.

955
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:56.099
Whereas these are just Shakespearean characters espousing at each

956
00:41:56.099 --> 00:41:56.400
other.

957
00:41:56.460 --> 00:41:59.219
And that's exactly what Russell wanted to avoid when he brought

958
00:41:59.219 --> 00:42:01.199
the show back by getting rid of the timelords.

959
00:42:01.260 --> 00:42:03.960
And then he fell straight into the trap in the end of time.

960
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:06.840
And again, I just wish we'd had something more interesting here.

961
00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:07.380
Yes.

962
00:42:07.380 --> 00:42:10.800
I just wouldn't have wanted the time loss to get much more

963
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:11.940
attention than they get here.

964
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:13.260
I mean, that is a point.

965
00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:17.460
No, but I think that's the reason why we've ended up with the kind

966
00:42:17.460 --> 00:42:21.119
of time launch that we have is because to do them properly would

967
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:24.420
become this incredibly self-indulgent story about them.

968
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:28.980
Yes, and then it's just, and I think they're trying to keep them a

969
00:42:28.980 --> 00:42:31.440
little bit mysterious in that, well, let's not talk too much about

970
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:33.840
them so that, you know, we don't categorise them too much.

971
00:42:33.900 --> 00:42:37.380
Let's let Big Finish do that for Exactly. box sets.

972
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:40.019
Yes, and they are less aggravating than they are in the end of

973
00:42:40.019 --> 00:42:42.599
time where you have Timothy Dalton doing his best.

974
00:42:42.659 --> 00:42:43.920
I know everyone else loves those.

975
00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:47.699
And you have, yes, mysterious woman covering her eyes and the

976
00:42:47.699 --> 00:42:48.719
scribbling woman and everything.

977
00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:50.219
You think, what is this that I'm watching?

978
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:54.840
But the time lords in the original series are criticised by the

979
00:42:54.840 --> 00:43:01.199
doctor and appear as past their prime, they're an ancient society

980
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:03.599
which doesn't do anything.

981
00:43:03.659 --> 00:43:08.219
They just sit around, their society is calcifying.

982
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:09.719
Everything's kind of grinding to a halt.

983
00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:12.119
Like, it's like the heat death of the universe kind of thing.

984
00:43:12.179 --> 00:43:16.260
Whereas the modern series is, you know, Russell and so on has made

985
00:43:16.260 --> 00:43:19.320
them villains, properly villains, like as a group.

986
00:43:19.380 --> 00:43:21.300
Regardless of what you're saying about the upstairs or the

987
00:43:21.300 --> 00:43:24.300
downstairs, one's doing different things. trying to make them more

988
00:43:24.300 --> 00:43:27.900
malevolent. kind of made them all powerful rather than just

989
00:43:27.900 --> 00:43:28.559
omnipotent.

990
00:43:28.619 --> 00:43:32.039
Yeah, and I think that was, I mean, that's a decision.

991
00:43:32.099 --> 00:43:34.380
It's not a decision I particularly liked.

992
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:38.219
I'd rather than be kind of the original series version, even when

993
00:43:38.219 --> 00:43:42.780
less than ideally executed in something like Ark of Infinity.

994
00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:45.900
I just don't think there is a definitive original series version

995
00:43:45.900 --> 00:43:51.719
because every time they appear, perhaps, perhaps less so after the

996
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:53.880
deadly assassin, they're different.

997
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:57.000
And certainly the time lords that you see at the end of the war

998
00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:00.179
games are absolutely not the time lords you see in the deadly

999
00:44:00.179 --> 00:44:00.659
assassin.

1000
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:02.280
100%.

1001
00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:04.559
So you have War Games 3 doctors time laws.

1002
00:44:04.619 --> 00:44:07.019
Don't forget the 1st 2 minutes of colony in space.

1003
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:10.500
Well, that's kind of lumped into the 3D purchase.

1004
00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:12.840
But you have those time lords.

1005
00:44:12.900 --> 00:44:14.760
And then you have the deadly assassin on.

1006
00:44:14.820 --> 00:44:18.360
And I think the deadly assassin on ones are, broadly speaking, all

1007
00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:18.659
the same.

1008
00:44:18.780 --> 00:44:21.239
It's just that some are done much better.

1009
00:44:21.300 --> 00:44:21.659
Right.

1010
00:44:21.659 --> 00:44:24.059
Yeah, some have Bob Holmes rising them and some have Johnny Burn

1011
00:44:24.059 --> 00:44:24.780
rice.

1012
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:25.500
Yeah exactly.

1013
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:27.780
Or, or, you know, Pip and Jane.

1014
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:28.559
Ex, for example.

1015
00:44:31.860 --> 00:44:35.880
But even information of time for all its failings is still better

1016
00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:37.380
realisation of time lord society.

1017
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:39.960
Yeah, Invasion of Time takes the deadly assassin and runs with

1018
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:43.019
Invasion of Time has that version of Barusa, who is possibly the

1019
00:44:43.019 --> 00:44:45.119
single one. we've ever seen.

1020
00:44:45.179 --> 00:44:47.820
Is Invasion of Time of David Agnew script.

1021
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:48.420
It is.

1022
00:44:48.420 --> 00:44:49.260
I think it is.

1023
00:44:49.619 --> 00:44:51.300
Graham Williams.

1024
00:44:51.300 --> 00:44:52.079
Graham Williams.

1025
00:44:52.380 --> 00:44:52.559
Yeah.

1026
00:44:52.619 --> 00:44:55.320
Anyway, the point being that they're rubbish.

1027
00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:57.840
They are indeed.

1028
00:44:57.900 --> 00:44:59.940
They're slightly less rubbish than the end of time, but they're

1029
00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:00.539
still...

1030
00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:01.199
They're not interesting.

1031
00:45:01.260 --> 00:45:03.840
They're just a plot device to create this massive war, right?

1032
00:45:03.900 --> 00:45:07.500
I think that his little friend.

1033
00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:12.659
Like, you know, there's the main general who will later on be shot

1034
00:45:12.659 --> 00:45:14.519
by Peter Capaldi.

1035
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:16.139
With that personally named Ken Bones.

1036
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:20.219
Ken Bones will turn into Tenaya Miller in one of the triumphs of

1037
00:45:20.219 --> 00:45:22.320
frame for generation.

1038
00:45:22.380 --> 00:45:25.260
And then his little friend has that fabulous.

1039
00:45:25.380 --> 00:45:28.139
I love the collar. it looks really great.

1040
00:45:28.199 --> 00:45:31.380
But yeah, I mean, they're an aesthetic thing and we have as little

1041
00:45:31.380 --> 00:45:32.579
of them as we can get away with.

1042
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:36.719
And so the, when we have the conundrum that they're having in

1043
00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:40.139
London, where Kate is wondering whether she needs to blow up, or

1044
00:45:40.139 --> 00:45:42.659
seriously considering blowing up London, killing 1000000s of

1045
00:45:42.659 --> 00:45:46.019
people, because that's better than the alternative.

1046
00:45:46.739 --> 00:45:50.639
I find that parallel, it's all a bit kind of forced and obvious

1047
00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:52.260
that we're going to have these 2 decisions.

1048
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:53.699
Like the doctor's having to make this decision.

1049
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:55.739
The war doctor's having to make this decision and Kate's having to

1050
00:45:55.739 --> 00:45:57.360
make this decision. the same decision, really.

1051
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:00.599
Moffatt lampshades that he says.

1052
00:46:00.659 --> 00:46:05.340
There's a line from the war doctor, which is the bad wolf girl, she

1053
00:46:05.340 --> 00:46:07.739
showed me exactly the future I needed to see.

1054
00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:13.079
She manipulated all 3 of them to create this story.

1055
00:46:13.139 --> 00:46:16.739
Yes, but that doesn't mean it's not... doesn't make it good

1056
00:46:16.739 --> 00:46:16.860
though.

1057
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:21.719
It doesn't work because the war doctor's takeaway from that

1058
00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:27.900
conversation is that in future his regret for what he's done will

1059
00:46:27.900 --> 00:46:31.500
inspire him to save many, many other people, including Kate and

1060
00:46:31.500 --> 00:46:32.639
the Zygons here.

1061
00:46:32.699 --> 00:46:34.079
And so he goes back.

1062
00:46:34.139 --> 00:46:36.300
And so do the other 2 doctors.

1063
00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:38.639
They go back determined to press the button.

1064
00:46:38.699 --> 00:46:39.179
Yes.

1065
00:46:39.179 --> 00:46:45.539
And the real thing that the doctor needed to see was the thing in

1066
00:46:45.539 --> 00:46:49.440
the tower where the war doctor makes the decision to set the

1067
00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:53.099
extruder over in motion, and then we have 400 years in the room

1068
00:46:53.099 --> 00:46:57.000
together, and we can solve the problem in that time, and that's

1069
00:46:57.000 --> 00:46:58.139
how Matt solves the problem.

1070
00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:01.019
Stephen always foreshadows.

1071
00:47:01.019 --> 00:47:02.280
Yeah.

1072
00:47:02.340 --> 00:47:04.320
And he usually does it as a gag, which is good.

1073
00:47:04.380 --> 00:47:05.639
Well, that's right. which is what we get here.

1074
00:47:05.699 --> 00:47:10.500
We get we get Matt Smith saying, oh, we're so clever and Clara

1075
00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:11.519
Burst.

1076
00:47:11.880 --> 00:47:14.159
Yes, there is a bunch line.

1077
00:47:14.219 --> 00:47:19.019
But that's fantastic. setting that up as that gag in otherwise.

1078
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:20.400
Yeah, the software is the same.

1079
00:47:20.460 --> 00:47:21.119
The face has changed.

1080
00:47:21.179 --> 00:47:24.659
Yeah, the face. face has changed in the 1st line and the face has

1081
00:47:24.659 --> 00:47:25.320
changed. yeah.

1082
00:47:25.380 --> 00:47:30.599
And then, and then having that payoff at the end, like that's

1083
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:31.679
fantastic foreshadowing.

1084
00:47:31.739 --> 00:47:33.599
It's like that's the way to do foreshadowing.

1085
00:47:33.659 --> 00:47:36.420
I just find it hard to believe that, you know, in 400 years he

1086
00:47:36.420 --> 00:47:39.719
hasn't had to upgrade the OS, which has meant that all current

1087
00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:41.460
operations have had to start again.

1088
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:42.960
We're digging down here.

1089
00:47:43.139 --> 00:47:47.639
Yeah, because he does give that screwdriver away to River Song

1090
00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:48.119
doesn't he?

1091
00:47:48.179 --> 00:47:52.139
And he also burns up the screwdriver in 11th hour and new one pops

1092
00:47:52.139 --> 00:47:52.800
out of the car.

1093
00:47:52.860 --> 00:47:54.719
It's all in cloud.

1094
00:47:55.079 --> 00:47:57.179
Chartist backs it off.

1095
00:47:57.239 --> 00:48:00.539
But, you know, Stephen's writing always pays off and it's always

1096
00:48:00.539 --> 00:48:01.920
clever.

1097
00:48:01.980 --> 00:48:06.360
And I think we've been sadly lacking in scripts of that easy

1098
00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:09.780
sophistication since you left the show, watching this.

1099
00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:11.820
Just remind me of the fact that even though, you know, I do think

1100
00:48:11.820 --> 00:48:15.539
it's a little bit obvious in places, he always pays you off as the

1101
00:48:15.539 --> 00:48:15.840
viewer.

1102
00:48:15.900 --> 00:48:17.820
Yes, you can't complain.

1103
00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:20.159
At the end of the day, I can pick faults with it.

1104
00:48:20.219 --> 00:48:22.920
I can pick a fair number of faults with it.

1105
00:48:22.980 --> 00:48:26.940
For me, just my personal sort of things, but at the end of the day

1106
00:48:26.940 --> 00:48:27.719
I still really like it.

1107
00:48:27.780 --> 00:48:28.559
I still enjoy it.

1108
00:48:28.679 --> 00:48:30.780
And that's because, and that is, as you say, down to Stephen

1109
00:48:30.780 --> 00:48:31.199
Morphin.

1110
00:48:31.260 --> 00:48:32.940
It's always a baseline of quality.

1111
00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:35.340
You know, some things he will pull off better than other things

1112
00:48:35.340 --> 00:48:38.639
but there's never anything which lets you down and makes you think

1113
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:39.420
well, that was pretty tame.

1114
00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:43.800
In fact, I think that what it does is exactly what it has to do

1115
00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:47.699
given that it's a celebration of 50 years and it's being watched

1116
00:48:47.699 --> 00:48:51.539
by lots of people, is you have a story about what actually

1117
00:48:51.539 --> 00:48:54.300
constitutes the doctor's heroism.

1118
00:48:54.360 --> 00:48:57.659
Like, what does it mean to be a doctor?

1119
00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:02.099
And so, you know, sometimes in the in the 80s, they would put the

1120
00:49:02.099 --> 00:49:04.920
doctor in a position where he couldn't do anything or there was no

1121
00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:06.719
good choice or something like that.

1122
00:49:06.780 --> 00:49:08.219
There should have been another way.

1123
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:09.000
Yeah, yeah.

1124
00:49:09.059 --> 00:49:10.980
And that's always a writing decision.

1125
00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:13.920
I mean, you're making up the situations, the doctor's in.

1126
00:49:13.980 --> 00:49:17.219
You don't have to put him in a situation where he has no choice.

1127
00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:22.380
And I think the point that Moffatt's making is that our doctor

1128
00:49:22.380 --> 00:49:24.239
just would never have done that.

1129
00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:27.480
You could never imagine a Doctor Who story.

1130
00:49:27.539 --> 00:49:31.139
For instance, that depicted the doctor pushing the button and

1131
00:49:31.139 --> 00:49:34.619
wiping out all of Gallifray, that would just be intolerable, who

1132
00:49:34.619 --> 00:49:38.639
would want to watch that, because what the doctor has to do is be

1133
00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:43.320
clever and outwit his enemies and force them to fall into their

1134
00:49:43.320 --> 00:49:46.980
own traps and all of that sort of thing, that speech, the never

1135
00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:49.739
cruel and cowardly speech from the human nature novel.

1136
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:51.659
And so making the centre.

1137
00:49:51.719 --> 00:49:55.139
Actually, it's not from the human nature. from the 1976 edition of

1138
00:49:55.139 --> 00:49:56.099
the making of Doctor Who.

1139
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:56.820
Oh, really?

1140
00:49:57.420 --> 00:50:01.500
You see, this is the nods to the past in this episode are

1141
00:50:01.500 --> 00:50:04.619
heartwarming and brilliant. you've redecorated.

1142
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:07.980
All those bits, you know, the bits you expect, the bits that you

1143
00:50:07.980 --> 00:50:08.880
get, it's wonderful.

1144
00:50:08.940 --> 00:50:14.460
But what really hits home for me is that wonderfully directed

1145
00:50:14.460 --> 00:50:16.980
scene in the barn where it all goes to black.

1146
00:50:17.099 --> 00:50:20.400
And so you see the doctors against black while they're delivering

1147
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:21.000
these lines.

1148
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:24.360
And they're quoting Terence Sticks from the making of Doctor Who

1149
00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:28.199
never cruel or cowardly, always fights evil, is always on the side

1150
00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:28.739
of good.

1151
00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:30.599
The wheezing and the groaning.

1152
00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:33.659
Never give up, never give in.

1153
00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:35.099
That's all Terence sticks.

1154
00:50:35.159 --> 00:50:38.579
That's all him explaining the heart of Doctor Who.

1155
00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:40.440
And so Moffat references that.

1156
00:50:40.500 --> 00:50:44.760
And that's his true throwback to the original series and what

1157
00:50:44.760 --> 00:50:45.659
Doctor 2 is about.

1158
00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:49.199
The only thing I was a bit upset about was that we had the Zygons

1159
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:52.860
and not say the Fomasi, because then you would have had that other

1160
00:50:52.860 --> 00:50:53.880
Terence Sticks classic.

1161
00:50:53.940 --> 00:50:56.219
The colour of monsters is green.

1162
00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:03.360
The wheeze and groaning sound speech is fantastic as well, isn't

1163
00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:03.539
it?

1164
00:51:03.599 --> 00:51:08.880
Because it's the moment saying that that sound herald's

1165
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:09.480
salvation.

1166
00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:13.739
And now the doctor gets to experience what it's like to hear that

1167
00:51:13.739 --> 00:51:14.219
sound.

1168
00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:18.719
And again, Nick Curran is fantastic because Billy is out of focus

1169
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:22.380
in the background of that shot and the shot is centred around John

1170
00:51:22.380 --> 00:51:27.539
Hurt's ear, which is hearing that sound suddenly appear, only this

1171
00:51:27.539 --> 00:51:29.460
time it's the doctor coming to save himself.

1172
00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:32.099
Yeah, I mean, it's poetic.

1173
00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:32.940
It's really great.

1174
00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:36.420
And while we're just talking about the moment and John Hertz

1175
00:51:36.420 --> 00:51:40.199
doctor, that entire scene where he 1st goes into the barn and

1176
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:40.920
encounters her.

1177
00:51:40.980 --> 00:51:44.340
It's a long, long scene with just the 2 of them, and it may be the

1178
00:51:44.340 --> 00:51:45.840
best scene in the entire episode.

1179
00:51:45.900 --> 00:51:46.860
It's so good.

1180
00:51:47.579 --> 00:51:49.199
I love that.

1181
00:51:49.260 --> 00:51:50.579
Why can't it be 2 things?

1182
00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:53.039
It's not a chair.

1183
00:51:54.420 --> 00:51:56.280
That's really clever.

1184
00:51:56.340 --> 00:51:57.059
Yeah, yeah.

1185
00:51:57.719 --> 00:52:01.980
But in a way, Billy Piper is playing a companion in this.

1186
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:02.639
She is playing...

1187
00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:03.300
Yeah.

1188
00:52:03.300 --> 00:52:04.980
Like the war doctor's companion.

1189
00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:05.280
Yeah.

1190
00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:06.119
Oh, yes.

1191
00:52:06.179 --> 00:52:06.719
No, absolutely.

1192
00:52:06.780 --> 00:52:10.920
Oh, that line about being stuck between a girl and a box is pretty

1193
00:52:10.920 --> 00:52:11.460
gross.

1194
00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:13.019
Don't worry about me online.

1195
00:52:13.079 --> 00:52:15.900
It's so effortlessly clever.

1196
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:17.639
That's Stephen Moffat just delivering.

1197
00:52:17.699 --> 00:52:18.179
Yeah.

1198
00:52:18.179 --> 00:52:20.280
Is that is she wearing thaw trousers?

1199
00:52:20.340 --> 00:52:21.960
I don't know what she's wearing.

1200
00:52:22.019 --> 00:52:24.659
She's wearing something that's very distressed anyway.

1201
00:52:24.780 --> 00:52:27.059
It's his quick thull cosplay.

1202
00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:29.760
She didn't have scissors.

1203
00:52:29.820 --> 00:52:30.960
She just used her keys.

1204
00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:34.260
It's the pair that Barbara took with her at the end of the Darwix

1205
00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:37.559
found at the back of a wardrobe in the car, in the tanks.

1206
00:52:49.619 --> 00:52:51.659
The problem is that, and I think Peter touched on this earlier

1207
00:52:51.659 --> 00:52:54.000
with, like, the weight of expectations, and something that's gonna

1208
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:56.039
be the 50th anniversary special is gonna have a weight of

1209
00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:58.559
expectations on it, which are going to be impossible to be met.

1210
00:52:58.619 --> 00:53:02.579
And you always end up with, whether it's Doctor Who, whatever it

1211
00:53:02.579 --> 00:53:06.840
is, something that I often find is enjoyable but slightly

1212
00:53:06.840 --> 00:53:07.500
unsatisfying.

1213
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:11.340
The best episodes and stories of Doctor Who that we remember are

1214
00:53:11.340 --> 00:53:14.760
not the 35 doctors and this.

1215
00:53:14.820 --> 00:53:16.980
Funnily enough, for me, the 2 doctors is the best of the

1216
00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:19.739
multidoctor stories by like years.

1217
00:53:19.860 --> 00:53:23.760
I agree because it's just a story which has 2 doctors in it.

1218
00:53:24.300 --> 00:53:27.420
Rather than it being like this existential crisis in the life of

1219
00:53:27.420 --> 00:53:30.119
the doctor, all of Gallifray or of the universe, whatever it

1220
00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:30.719
happens to be.

1221
00:53:30.780 --> 00:53:31.679
It's not a tentpole story.

1222
00:53:31.739 --> 00:53:32.340
Exactly.

1223
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:36.840
And so many of the best stories that we love aren't that, you know

1224
00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:38.219
they're just a story.

1225
00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:41.099
Blink is just an episode.

1226
00:53:41.820 --> 00:53:45.179
And yet it's probably one of the best things that the modern

1227
00:53:45.179 --> 00:53:46.440
program has produced.

1228
00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:48.780
Pyramids of Mars is just a story.

1229
00:53:48.840 --> 00:53:51.900
But it's probably one of the best stories ever produced of the

1230
00:53:51.900 --> 00:53:52.380
classic series.

1231
00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:54.300
For episode four, obviously.

1232
00:53:55.800 --> 00:53:58.139
Scratch pyramids are mad.

1233
00:53:58.199 --> 00:54:00.960
Let's put in, let's put in scenes of Dame.

1234
00:54:01.019 --> 00:54:02.519
I knew you were going to say seats.

1235
00:54:02.579 --> 00:54:04.079
Yeah, because you know, I love it.

1236
00:54:04.139 --> 00:54:06.360
Green Death, despite the Kramer key.

1237
00:54:06.420 --> 00:54:06.900
You know what I mean?

1238
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:09.659
So, but the point being that it doesn't have to be about the end

1239
00:54:09.659 --> 00:54:11.639
of the universe for it to be the best thing and everything.

1240
00:54:11.699 --> 00:54:15.420
The problem with these sorts of stories is that the stakes are too

1241
00:54:15.420 --> 00:54:19.019
big that I just can't quite get involved in it in the same way.

1242
00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:23.039
Yeah, I guess for me, though, this is an extra thing that we got

1243
00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:25.619
to have, you know, we had a normal season.

1244
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:26.880
We have a Christmas special.

1245
00:54:26.940 --> 00:54:30.179
We have this big extra thing celebrating the program in a really

1246
00:54:30.179 --> 00:54:32.340
public way that involves everyone.

1247
00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:37.260
So I do think it's appropriate to have Daleks in it. you know, have

1248
00:54:37.260 --> 00:54:41.880
it be about the doctor and and also to kind of reorient the show

1249
00:54:41.880 --> 00:54:44.880
to kind of bring the classic series back into the fold.

1250
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:47.639
I completely understand how you end up with this.

1251
00:54:47.699 --> 00:54:50.159
I'm just saying that it's never going to be good enough for me is

1252
00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:52.320
the problem. is what I'm trying to say. never going to be good

1253
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:52.500
enough.

1254
00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:57.000
I would argue actually of the multi-doctor stories that are

1255
00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:58.619
celebrations.

1256
00:54:58.619 --> 00:54:59.940
This is the best.

1257
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:01.380
Yeah, I think so too.

1258
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:05.159
I'll give it that, given that I think the 3 doctors is pretty

1259
00:55:05.159 --> 00:55:05.400
bad.

1260
00:55:06.179 --> 00:55:07.980
Don't get me wrong.

1261
00:55:08.039 --> 00:55:09.059
Love the 5 doctors.

1262
00:55:09.059 --> 00:55:12.179
And love the 5 doctors for emotional reasons rather than rational

1263
00:55:12.179 --> 00:55:12.480
reasons.

1264
00:55:12.599 --> 00:55:19.139
But in terms of script acting special effects, the meaning of it

1265
00:55:19.139 --> 00:55:23.099
in the mythology of the show, this is this is actually better than

1266
00:55:23.099 --> 00:55:23.579
those others.

1267
00:55:23.639 --> 00:55:26.159
It's actually a thing at the time, though, isn't it?

1268
00:55:26.219 --> 00:55:29.579
Because this one is very much of its time in terms of how

1269
00:55:29.579 --> 00:55:33.119
television's made and what things are alike.

1270
00:55:33.179 --> 00:55:35.760
The 5 doctors is also very much of its time.

1271
00:55:35.820 --> 00:55:37.260
It's so much more British.

1272
00:55:37.320 --> 00:55:40.500
It's so much more of a, it's this restrained celebration where

1273
00:55:40.500 --> 00:55:44.460
we're all going to walk about the place and you know, and that's

1274
00:55:44.460 --> 00:55:45.300
about all what happened.

1275
00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:46.079
You know what I mean?

1276
00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:49.679
Get together for get together for a bit of a party.

1277
00:55:49.739 --> 00:55:51.239
Get together for a bit of a party.

1278
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:54.360
But not too much of a party. you know, not, you know, restrain

1279
00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:54.840
ourselves.

1280
00:55:54.900 --> 00:55:56.519
Just some light bondage.

1281
00:55:56.639 --> 00:56:00.840
Just those little things that Richard Herndle is chewing on.

1282
00:56:00.900 --> 00:56:01.679
Yes, exactly.

1283
00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:05.039
It's like them having tea and cake in the console room with the 5

1284
00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:05.400
doctors.

1285
00:56:05.460 --> 00:56:07.739
That's the celebration for the 5 doctors.

1286
00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:08.159
You what I mean?

1287
00:56:08.219 --> 00:56:10.440
So I agree with you. with a cup of tea.

1288
00:56:10.500 --> 00:56:14.280
And in fact, Nick Curran, as we, you know, the whole thing sort of

1289
00:56:14.280 --> 00:56:17.039
ends and then we just get Nick Curran gives us a shot of someone

1290
00:56:17.039 --> 00:56:18.719
putting sugar into a cup of tea.

1291
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:21.480
I just think it's fantastic.

1292
00:56:21.539 --> 00:56:26.639
So on the Tom thing at the end, which is just delicious and

1293
00:56:26.639 --> 00:56:29.039
wonderful and incredible.

1294
00:56:29.099 --> 00:56:30.239
Goosebumps.

1295
00:56:30.300 --> 00:56:31.980
But can I say the word but?

1296
00:56:32.039 --> 00:56:33.119
Yeah, that's good.

1297
00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:36.659
I regret the line.

1298
00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:40.019
Yeah, revisiting the old favourites or just the old favourites.

1299
00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:42.900
I think that is too obvious.

1300
00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:44.159
Yes, everything though.

1301
00:56:44.219 --> 00:56:45.719
Yes, I guess I know.

1302
00:56:45.780 --> 00:56:48.239
But this is the, I had this argument with Brian afterwards and he

1303
00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:49.199
was on your side.

1304
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:53.639
Because basically my point was, you don't need to say that.

1305
00:56:53.820 --> 00:56:55.079
The fact that he is there.

1306
00:56:55.139 --> 00:56:58.980
Yes, we all know he's the most beloved doctor of class.

1307
00:56:58.980 --> 00:57:01.860
Of course he is. only revisiting the ones who are any good.

1308
00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:04.800
Revisiting the old favourite.

1309
00:57:04.860 --> 00:57:07.199
Yes, but you don't need to say that.

1310
00:57:07.260 --> 00:57:09.900
I think basically his presence there is enough.

1311
00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:10.679
Show don't tell.

1312
00:57:10.739 --> 00:57:13.380
I just think that it overstepped the mark and I'm not saying this

1313
00:57:13.380 --> 00:57:16.500
because, you know, Colin got upset about the fact that Tom was in

1314
00:57:16.500 --> 00:57:17.219
it and he wasn't.

1315
00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:18.420
Storm down screening.

1316
00:57:18.420 --> 00:57:22.079
And, you know, that's that's by the bye.

1317
00:57:22.139 --> 00:57:26.760
But I just think showing that little modicum of restraint would

1318
00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:28.139
have made it more elegant.

1319
00:57:28.199 --> 00:57:31.500
I know what you're saying, but I think that line is the modicum of

1320
00:57:31.500 --> 00:57:31.920
restraining.

1321
00:57:31.980 --> 00:57:32.579
I think.

1322
00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:36.420
I think it goes right up to what it could have said, which would

1323
00:57:36.420 --> 00:57:38.039
have been a bit unsafely and then doesn't.

1324
00:57:38.159 --> 00:57:40.619
But no, that line's more a strength than who knows?

1325
00:57:40.679 --> 00:57:41.699
Who knows?

1326
00:57:41.760 --> 00:57:44.880
Oh, I love it. again, fantastic.

1327
00:57:44.940 --> 00:57:48.239
No, but that's, that's not the, there's kind of restraint, the

1328
00:57:48.239 --> 00:57:49.380
lack of restraint that I'm talking about.

1329
00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:50.940
Oh, no. yeah.

1330
00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:52.559
I mean, I don't think it's a problem.

1331
00:57:52.619 --> 00:57:56.039
I think we can overlay what we know about the fact that, you know

1332
00:57:56.039 --> 00:57:58.800
maybe one or 2 of the other doctors were a bit upset that they

1333
00:57:58.800 --> 00:57:59.579
didn't get a look in.

1334
00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:02.039
We're not sure, but maybe we maybe we do know that.

1335
00:58:02.099 --> 00:58:04.500
But I think you do know that because they said that the following

1336
00:58:04.500 --> 00:58:04.739
day.

1337
00:58:04.800 --> 00:58:05.400
Okay.

1338
00:58:06.059 --> 00:58:08.400
You were at that convention.

1339
00:58:08.460 --> 00:58:12.119
Yes, we were at that event and Colin sabotaging my efforts at

1340
00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:13.019
sidestepping in.

1341
00:58:13.019 --> 00:58:14.579
Not a happy little legend, Mike.

1342
00:58:14.579 --> 00:58:15.239
Colin was...

1343
00:58:15.300 --> 00:58:16.139
Yeah, I know, I know.

1344
00:58:16.260 --> 00:58:16.800
I don't blame him.

1345
00:58:16.860 --> 00:58:18.059
And it wasn't because he wasn't in it.

1346
00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:20.460
It was, I think, because of the way it's treated.

1347
00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:25.500
There's just a lack of a realistic appraisal of what the history

1348
00:58:25.500 --> 00:58:30.599
of the show has been like, that Tom was the doctor at the time

1349
00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:37.739
when it was so popular and so important and he is spectacular.

1350
00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:39.360
Like, he's given...

1351
00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:40.380
I appreciate all that.

1352
00:58:40.440 --> 00:58:41.400
It's so good.

1353
00:58:41.460 --> 00:58:43.199
But the other thing is, this...

1354
00:58:43.199 --> 00:58:44.760
And so he's the logical one to have in the special.

1355
00:58:44.820 --> 00:58:45.599
Exactly, of course.

1356
00:58:45.659 --> 00:58:46.440
I'm not saying that's right.

1357
00:58:46.500 --> 00:58:47.159
No, no, no, no.

1358
00:58:47.219 --> 00:58:53.159
But this this week, every living doctor is involved in something.

1359
00:58:53.219 --> 00:58:53.760
Yes.

1360
00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:58.559
And the five-ish doctor's reboot isn't a bit of a femmer, a bit of

1361
00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:00.420
fluff or something that doesn't matter.

1362
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:02.340
It's spectacularly gross.

1363
00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:03.599
It's imperb.

1364
00:59:03.659 --> 00:59:04.619
It's far better than this.

1365
00:59:04.679 --> 00:59:09.119
Yeah, it's a it's a world scripted comedy directed by Peter

1366
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:09.900
Davidson.

1367
00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:12.059
Like, you know, like they were involved.

1368
00:59:12.239 --> 00:59:16.440
No, no, I get what you're saying, and I get why Colin was upset.

1369
00:59:16.860 --> 00:59:20.760
Davidson on the Sunday said when everyone was saying how brilliant

1370
00:59:20.760 --> 00:59:24.480
the five-ish doctor's reboot was, and he said, and look, one of

1371
00:59:24.480 --> 00:59:29.099
the questions was basically, and innocently put, was there anyone

1372
00:59:29.099 --> 00:59:34.500
that you wanted to be in it, that said no, and he's Davidson said

1373
00:59:34.500 --> 00:59:35.579
yes, there was one person.

1374
00:59:35.639 --> 00:59:37.079
So that was Tom.

1375
00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:37.679
And that was Tom, right?

1376
00:59:37.739 --> 00:59:38.519
We assume.

1377
00:59:38.579 --> 00:59:39.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1378
00:59:39.659 --> 00:59:42.000
And that's when I goes back to what I'm saying before.

1379
00:59:42.059 --> 00:59:47.400
It's just unfortunate that the greatest living doctor is that

1380
00:59:47.400 --> 00:59:47.699
person.

1381
00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:51.119
It behaves like that. a bit of a dick about it.

1382
00:59:51.179 --> 00:59:55.139
Still, even despite all of the all of the years of soul searching

1383
00:59:55.139 --> 00:59:55.559
he's done.

1384
00:59:55.559 --> 00:59:56.880
Building bridges.

1385
00:59:56.880 --> 00:59:58.679
Building bridges back inside.

1386
00:59:58.739 --> 01:00:01.980
It seems like that that's just, it's just, the bridge was about to

1387
01:00:01.980 --> 01:00:03.960
be rebuilt and it was just demolished in one line.

1388
01:00:04.019 --> 01:00:07.500
Perhaps he's just aware that the general public holds him in far

1389
01:00:07.500 --> 01:00:09.300
gracier esteem than any other living doctor.

1390
01:00:09.420 --> 01:00:11.340
And show more modesty about it.

1391
01:00:11.400 --> 01:00:13.619
I'm not saying that that is a good thing.

1392
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:17.039
I'm not saying that he shouldn't be more open about.

1393
01:00:17.099 --> 01:00:20.400
I'm just saying that maybe we can't lay that interpretation of

1394
01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:21.420
that line at his door.

1395
01:00:21.480 --> 01:00:24.059
Oh, okay, I'm not laying it at his door. certainly not.

1396
01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:26.219
Sorry, this conversation has gone in a different direction.

1397
01:00:26.280 --> 01:00:30.239
I'm just talking about the, there is a scriptwriter who is aware

1398
01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:32.699
of all of this.

1399
01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:36.539
That scriptwriter, that showrunner is completely aware that all

1400
01:00:36.539 --> 01:00:39.599
this exists and yet that line, for some reason you couldn't stop

1401
01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:40.800
himself putting that line in.

1402
01:00:40.980 --> 01:00:42.719
I can understand that.

1403
01:00:42.780 --> 01:00:45.539
I don't care about the behind the scenes politics and cares more

1404
01:00:45.539 --> 01:00:48.659
about the fact that the audience is watching it and going, that's

1405
01:00:48.659 --> 01:00:49.079
my doctor.

1406
01:00:49.139 --> 01:00:50.340
That's the old fashion.

1407
01:00:50.400 --> 01:00:51.780
Yeah, I'm not saying it because of the behind the scenes

1408
01:00:51.780 --> 01:00:52.139
politics.

1409
01:00:52.199 --> 01:00:56.159
I'm just using that as an illustration as to why it's just more

1410
01:00:56.159 --> 01:01:00.420
elegant to not have had this that one line, just that one half

1411
01:01:00.420 --> 01:01:01.500
line. not even a full line.

1412
01:01:01.559 --> 01:01:05.699
I mean, as with this entire special, the entire thing is juggling

1413
01:01:05.699 --> 01:01:08.699
act, there are so many things which Moffat had to bring together

1414
01:01:08.699 --> 01:01:12.960
and put in and decide not to put in and focus on and not focus on

1415
01:01:12.960 --> 01:01:17.039
and still tell a coherent story about the doctor and about the

1416
01:01:17.039 --> 01:01:19.199
series and he actually pulls it off.

1417
01:01:19.260 --> 01:01:22.619
And I think that is why it's such a success.

1418
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:25.860
It may not be a success on every level, and in every scene, and

1419
01:01:25.860 --> 01:01:28.440
there's certainly things which I don't think land, as I've talked

1420
01:01:28.440 --> 01:01:31.440
about, but you can't take away from Moth at what he achieved.

1421
01:01:31.500 --> 01:01:32.280
It's something incredible.

1422
01:01:53.340 --> 01:01:56.820
Well, Lily, sir, that's all we have time for for now.

1423
01:01:57.119 --> 01:02:00.780
We'll be back in a couple of days to discuss the real 50th

1424
01:02:00.780 --> 01:02:04.679
anniversary special, as Peter Davidson, Colin Baker, and Sylvester

1425
01:02:04.679 --> 01:02:08.219
McCoy joined forces in the 5 ish doctors reboot.

1426
01:02:08.340 --> 01:02:10.079
What about Paul McGann?

1427
01:02:10.199 --> 01:02:12.000
He doesn't count.

1428
01:02:15.239 --> 01:02:18.840
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1429
01:02:18.840 --> 01:02:21.360
and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook

1430
01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:24.719
at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website

1431
01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:27.599
FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other

1432
01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:32.340
podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterterra, maximum power, and

1433
01:02:32.340 --> 01:02:34.079
untitled Star Trek project.

1434
01:02:34.440 --> 01:02:39.420
Until next time, may you never step in anything unimportant.

1435
01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:41.039
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1436
01:02:41.099 --> 01:02:41.880
Good night.

1437
01:02:41.940 --> 01:02:42.539
Bye bye.

1438
01:02:42.599 --> 01:02:43.260
Good night.

1439
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:51.059
That was Flightthrough Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter

1440
01:02:51.059 --> 01:02:52.860
Griffith, Simon Moore, and James Selwood.

1441
01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:55.079
Theme arrangements by Cameron Lan.

1442
01:02:55.139 --> 01:02:58.739
This episode, it's No Arc of Infinity, was recorded on the 24th of

1443
01:02:58.739 --> 01:03:01.679
July 2022 and released on the 23rd of November.

1444
01:03:06.119 --> 01:03:09.480
If you just picked up your podcatcher to listen to the latest

1445
01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:12.900
episode of FTE, you'll be delighted to learn that you just missed

1446
01:03:12.900 --> 01:03:17.940
the 1st of our 2 episodes on the day of the doctor, episode 248

1447
01:03:17.940 --> 01:03:19.500
the glue that holds everything together.

1448
01:03:19.559 --> 01:03:23.099
So have a listen to that now, and we'll see you back here on

1449
01:03:23.099 --> 01:03:23.579
Sunday.

1450
01:03:23.639 --> 01:03:24.780
Bye for now.

1451
01:03:32.159 --> 01:03:34.079
That's the end of the episode.

1452
01:03:34.199 --> 01:03:36.840
No, I didn't want to end the episode with a soliloquy.

1453
01:03:36.960 --> 01:03:39.059
Oh, no, I think it's a good speed.

1454
01:03:39.119 --> 01:03:39.840
That's a good ending.

1455
01:03:39.900 --> 01:03:40.500
That's a ending.

1456
01:03:40.559 --> 01:03:41.940
Because, I mean, that is it, isn't it?

1457
01:03:42.059 --> 01:03:43.500
Yeah, there'll be a tag or whatever.

1458
01:03:43.559 --> 01:03:46.260
We didn't even talk about listening to us right now.

1459
01:03:47.039 --> 01:03:53.880
The tag can be that fight over which Osgood is this like...

1460
01:03:53.880 --> 01:04:00.239
Yes, because we didn't even talk about the very best thing in the

1461
01:04:00.239 --> 01:04:00.480
episode.

1462
01:04:00.539 --> 01:04:01.199
What's that?

1463
01:04:01.199 --> 01:04:02.880
Sarah Kingdom and Mike Yates.

1464
01:04:02.940 --> 01:04:04.440
We talked about it this morning.

1465
01:04:04.500 --> 01:04:05.099
What?

1466
01:04:05.219 --> 01:04:09.960
So thinking of it on the paranoia board in the black archive.

1467
01:04:10.019 --> 01:04:12.480
There's a photograph of Mike Yates.

1468
01:04:12.539 --> 01:04:13.380
Oh, with Sarah Kingdom.

1469
01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:14.340
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

1470
01:04:14.400 --> 01:04:16.019
But we did talk about that this morning.

1471
01:04:16.079 --> 01:04:17.219
I want to see more.

1472
01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:19.440
I want to see like, you know, Vicky and Kquillian.

1473
01:04:21.059 --> 01:04:23.099
No, but that's the point.

1474
01:04:23.159 --> 01:04:24.420
The point is it's people who didn't meet together.

1475
01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:25.920
But how does it work?

1476
01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:26.940
I got that wrong.

1477
01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:28.500
I want to see more of that.

1478
01:04:28.559 --> 01:04:30.480
I want to see, say, Vicky and Chameleon.

1479
01:04:31.380 --> 01:04:33.719
Chameleon is on that ball.

1480
01:04:33.780 --> 01:04:34.980
Yeah, comedians on the board.

1481
01:04:35.039 --> 01:04:35.940
No Vicky.

1482
01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:37.380
No. no Katarina.

1483
01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:39.900
I can just imagine the...

1484
01:04:39.960 --> 01:04:40.800
What about Dodo?

1485
01:04:40.860 --> 01:04:43.380
Well, Dodo is in the after party.

1486
01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:47.460
So she does actually get to turn up and participate in the in the

1487
01:04:47.460 --> 01:04:48.539
week celebration.

1488
01:04:48.599 --> 01:04:49.380
That was a mess.

1489
01:04:49.500 --> 01:04:50.820
I finally...

1490
01:04:50.820 --> 01:04:51.599
That was embarrassing.

1491
01:04:51.659 --> 01:04:54.840
When are we doing the after party, we went live.

1492
01:04:54.900 --> 01:04:56.699
We're not even doing that.

1493
01:04:56.699 --> 01:04:57.900
Was it embarrassing?

1494
01:04:57.960 --> 01:04:58.980
It was embarrassing.

1495
01:04:59.039 --> 01:05:00.539
Partly because I think Have you never seen it?

1496
01:05:00.780 --> 01:05:01.199
No, no.

1497
01:05:01.260 --> 01:05:03.059
It's absolutely terrible.

1498
01:05:03.119 --> 01:05:04.079
They assemble.

1499
01:05:04.139 --> 01:05:09.420
Virtually, every main star from Classic Doc 2, aside from the

1500
01:05:09.420 --> 01:05:11.099
doctors, they get virtually everybody in.

1501
01:05:11.159 --> 01:05:13.380
And then they completely waste it.

1502
01:05:13.440 --> 01:05:16.679
They sit them around tables and every so often throw them and go

1503
01:05:16.679 --> 01:05:18.480
did you enjoy being in Doctor Who?

1504
01:05:18.539 --> 01:05:19.019
Yes.

1505
01:05:19.079 --> 01:05:20.940
And then they throw, you think, oh, my God.

1506
01:05:20.940 --> 01:05:22.559
And all of a sudden, it's poorly done.

1507
01:05:22.619 --> 01:05:25.019
They're trying to do what they sort of chat chase now where

1508
01:05:25.019 --> 01:05:26.820
they're all on irregularly shaped sofas.

1509
01:05:26.880 --> 01:05:29.400
No one looks like this eating particularly comfortably.

1510
01:05:29.460 --> 01:05:32.280
And they've all, they've all got their shirts and everything are

1511
01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:36.239
all kind of blowing out and showing that they're less, they're

1512
01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:38.760
less nice sides, unflatteringly.

1513
01:05:38.820 --> 01:05:40.920
It was just, but it was also, yeah, you're right.

1514
01:05:40.980 --> 01:05:42.719
They didn't ask anyone anything at all.

1515
01:05:42.780 --> 01:05:45.000
And they're all kind of sitting there a bit shell shocked so that

1516
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:46.320
this thing had just been off.

1517
01:05:46.380 --> 01:05:49.079
It actually felt like a real mark of disrespect to the original

1518
01:05:49.079 --> 01:05:52.679
show, which the rest of the anniversary week is absolutely not.

1519
01:05:52.739 --> 01:05:54.059
Yes, absolutely not.

1520
01:05:54.119 --> 01:05:55.860
Yeah, like they were thrown away.

1521
01:05:55.920 --> 01:05:57.179
Yeah, it was really terrible.

1522
01:05:57.239 --> 01:06:00.239
We sat there watching it in a group and about 10 minutes in we're

1523
01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:00.780
going, oh, dear.

1524
01:06:00.900 --> 01:06:01.980
Yeah, we didn't...

1525
01:06:01.980 --> 01:06:03.300
And that's when we turned everyone off.

1526
01:06:03.300 --> 01:06:03.960
Switch it off.

1527
01:06:04.019 --> 01:06:05.039
Yeah, so we cheered off.

1528
01:06:05.099 --> 01:06:05.639
Yes.

1529
01:06:08.699 --> 01:06:10.019
And cut it.

1530
01:06:10.079 --> 01:06:11.039
Now.

1531
01:06:14.099 --> 01:06:17.760
I'm sure there was a fanboy in the audience doing that as well.

1532
01:06:17.820 --> 01:06:22.139
Well, the, um, in that, in that thing too, who's the blonde hottie

1533
01:06:22.139 --> 01:06:27.780
um, Peter Davidson. gay boy. from A, A, from Rise of the Cyber Age

1534
01:06:27.780 --> 01:06:28.139
of Steel.

1535
01:06:28.199 --> 01:06:29.159
Oh, yeah, Jake.

1536
01:06:29.219 --> 01:06:29.880
Jake.

1537
01:06:29.940 --> 01:06:33.360
He was then and he was apparently so happy to have been included

1538
01:06:33.360 --> 01:06:35.460
as a kind of a pseudo-companion.

1539
01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:37.500
Because of course he's in like 4 episodes, isn't he?

1540
01:06:37.559 --> 01:06:39.119
Yeah, he's in four. four, yeah.

1541
01:06:39.179 --> 01:06:43.920
And so he kind of made the cast and he was so apparently happy to

1542
01:06:43.920 --> 01:06:46.199
be invited through him and he was one of the most buoyant, the

1543
01:06:46.199 --> 01:06:47.039
more buoyant people there.

1544
01:06:47.159 --> 01:06:50.820
In fact, it was the new series people that seem to have the energy

1545
01:06:50.820 --> 01:06:53.579
in that room to actually talk and do stuff.

1546
01:06:53.639 --> 01:06:56.760
It was the original series, people who were kind of sitting there

1547
01:06:56.760 --> 01:06:57.300
a little bit sheltered.

1548
01:06:57.360 --> 01:07:00.119
Yeah, but to say the energy, I think it's because the original

1549
01:07:00.119 --> 01:07:01.920
series people deserve respect.

1550
01:07:01.980 --> 01:07:05.340
They deserve veneration for the fact that they were part of this

1551
01:07:05.340 --> 01:07:08.699
show and they were sort of brought along and piled together at

1552
01:07:08.699 --> 01:07:09.179
tables.

1553
01:07:09.239 --> 01:07:10.559
And so it was a little bit off.

1554
01:07:10.619 --> 01:07:14.159
Yeah, yeah, like like dragged dragged out of retirement and

1555
01:07:14.159 --> 01:07:17.880
inverted commas to watch this thing that's much better than when

1556
01:07:17.880 --> 01:07:19.860
you were in it is how it felt to me.

1557
01:07:19.920 --> 01:07:20.340
Yeah.

1558
01:07:20.340 --> 01:07:23.760
I would say that it's made much better than when they were.

1559
01:07:23.820 --> 01:07:26.460
No, no, no, no. not saying I agree with that, but that's how it

1560
01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:27.599
felt watching it.

1561
01:07:27.659 --> 01:07:30.059
It was like, oh, look at this fantastic Doctor Who.

1562
01:07:30.119 --> 01:07:31.320
What was it like when you were in it?

1563
01:07:31.380 --> 01:07:34.079
In fact, the only thing that I really did like was when Jackie

1564
01:07:34.079 --> 01:07:37.679
Lane turned up on the...

1565
01:07:37.739 --> 01:07:39.179
Yeah, she's on the screen.

1566
01:07:39.300 --> 01:07:42.900
She does a William Hartman. happy anniversary to Doctor Who fans

1567
01:07:42.900 --> 01:07:45.960
and everything and it really is absolutely heartwarming because

1568
01:07:45.960 --> 01:07:50.340
she's one of the stars who at the time was not very prevalent.

1569
01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:51.239
She didn't go to conventions.

1570
01:07:51.300 --> 01:07:53.159
No, we didn't see her interviewed and things like that.

1571
01:07:53.219 --> 01:07:56.760
So to see her acknowledging the anniversary of the show was really

1572
01:07:56.760 --> 01:07:57.000
great.

1573
01:07:58.380 --> 01:08:00.719
It would have just been better for them to appear in clips like

1574
01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:00.840
that.

1575
01:08:00.900 --> 01:08:01.440
I agree.

1576
01:08:01.500 --> 01:08:04.380
Right, and have a montage, a 10 minute montage of them all.

1577
01:08:04.440 --> 01:08:04.980
Wow.

1578
01:08:05.039 --> 01:08:06.059
Or just litter them through.

1579
01:08:06.119 --> 01:08:07.679
You're so mean to Jackie Lane normally.

1580
01:08:07.739 --> 01:08:09.360
I love Jackie Lane.

1581
01:08:09.420 --> 01:08:10.800
We're mean to dodo.

1582
01:08:10.860 --> 01:08:13.739
I mean to Simon. like Simon.

1583
01:08:13.800 --> 01:08:14.940
Do you?

1584
01:08:16.140 --> 01:08:18.060
All right, I'm gonna stop.