WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:56:50

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Hello, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only

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Doctor Who podcast, which doesn't mind being a queen, although we

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really didn't have much of a choice.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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And hello, I'm surprisingly not pregnant, and back from Cambridge

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although I think that slip on the weir might have had something to

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do with it.

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I have this wait time carrying is nothing to do.

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Richard is back with us.

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And Todd is just getting a quick vacation in Devil's Hump, I

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believe.

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Well, that's what he wrote on the postcard.

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It meant nothing to me.

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What does it mention?

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As we move into possibly Doctor Who's only 2nd story dealing with

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Time Paradoxes, Day of the Daleks.

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Right, well, lucky me.

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This one's mine, and I'm glad I've got this one, 'cause I have to

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go and study it forever. and learn all about things.

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Well, we're here watching a show that isn't really about what it

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says it's about, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, because

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the Daleks were a last minute put in thing, weren't they?

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They were going to be in Robert Sloman's final story of the year.

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And then they thought, oh, no, we need another whiz banger sees an

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opening.

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And Sloman had previously proven himself to be a really good

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writer.

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And I think he is a really good writer and we won't look forward

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to, we look forward to your opinions on that at the end of the

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season.

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Gee, that'll be fun, won't it?

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But Gray of the Daleks, or Doris Day of the Daleks, if you look at

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what Katie's wearing in this little number.

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She's not actually, is she?

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Brendan slipped through a time bridge. hanging around a bridge

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beside a canal at a certain point in history.

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I think Katie's outfit in this is the height of fashion, quite

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frankly, I don't think.

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Well, even Katie says it's nuts.

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Even she says it's terrible.

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She says she has.

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And we have it on proof.

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Anyway.

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Well, Stewart Fell agrees with me at least.

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I mean, mostly it is Stuart Full.

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This is great.

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We've got Percy Granger's English country garden getting the

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pantomime goodies treatment, haven't we?

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It's hard to know where I am.

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Am I on a backlot?

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Am I in a disused?

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It's not a quarry.

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Disused sort of greeny place?

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I, you know.

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Yeah, it does give it a bit of visual, visual variety. doesn't

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it?

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We've got we've got the country house and we've got this sort of

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scrub land.

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And even though they're both predominantly green, the scrub land

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is dying off and it's yellowed and there's blocks of concrete

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everywhere.

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So we've already got that tense dichotomy.

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And that's just the original styles.

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So what we've got, what we've got is a lovely English country

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heist, and we've got a conference because of course it's 1970 blah

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whichever version you believe in.

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And of course, Nixon hadn't got to China yet and all the rest of

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it.

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So, you know, the Daytente thing was simmering away.

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The Cold War had sort of turned into some interesting thing in, um

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in our region here in Australia, really.

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You've got Vietnam going on for far too bloody long, simply

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because Henry Kissinger believes you've got to destroy every

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communist, wherever you can find it.

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Nixon got in, promising to end it, and that's how they got rid of

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LBJ.

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Nixon, of course, was that we own him because he's been in Doctor

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Who.

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And we then had Kissinger behind the scenes telling him with the

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CIA that it had to continue.

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The war had to continue.

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So the money had to, in fact, was taken out of the space program.

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So we've got lots of things to be angry to with Mr. Nixon for at

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this time.

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But also, before all of that was going on, Nixon was actually

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trying to get behind the scenes stuff to try and get a big

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Congress in China and meet with Mao Zi, Mao Zi, Dong, and Chewing

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Ginsburg, whatever his name was.

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And, um, you know, try and ease east-west, the new east-west

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relations.

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So that's what we're seeing here with world conferences of, you

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know, a couple of blokes in hats.

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And so that kind of overshadows, all kind of is really important

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to the entire story because the centre is, as you were saying.

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It's about wine and cheese, isn't it?

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Giant wine and cheese do.

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And the PLO.

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The world is in terrible danger and the doctor isn't aware of it

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at the beginning.

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The brigadier says, you know, I don't think you realise how

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terrible the international situation is, or is that cause of

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axos?

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anyway. a blur, isn't it?

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Well, it's a constant, it's a constant consideration in Perley's

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1st 3 seasons, and indeed, this seems to be the conference that

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leads on from the conference in the mind of the...

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And units handling security arrangements.

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Again, it's interesting what you were saying, Richard, about how

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Nixon's platform about how he got in in that your current leader

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can't do this.

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I can win this war.

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Where have we seen that in local politics recently?

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I wonder.

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The repetition goes round and round, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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And when are we going to get one of our microphones into a hotel

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room with Tony Abbott?

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Please, no.

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Actually, should we should we email this to George Brandis?

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I think that's the dumb thing now.

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We email everything to Jordan.

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I guess your international listener would think all this.

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What's the closest?

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David Cameron and Nick League don't really come anywhere near them

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do they?

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No, they try to. one umping each other on a waiter on a race to

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the bottom, but it does fit in with that whole tone of history

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repeating itself.

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And I think Louis Marx must have been a very politically aware

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writer.

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Lewis Marx isn't a bad writer at all for a bloke who came up with

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friction drive daleks in the 60s.

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Isn't that what he actually had a lovely toy empire?

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I'm sure it's the same person.

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That was M-AR-X. Groucho's younger brother.

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But look, this one... is am I crazy or did he write...

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Planet of Giant?

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Yes, he did.

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Which has...

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Yes, you're right. hasn't done anything this is?

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Yeah.

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And, yeah, he would later write a mask of man dragger rather, which

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again, has a political bent.

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And are both terrific stories.

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And you know what?

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So is this one if it just, if you just ignore all the tweaks and

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pulls.

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So he's writing a story which is called the Ghost Hunters.

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And the current political situation goes pear shaped.

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Like what happens is the conference goes wrong and it fails. and

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it creates, you know, a 100 years of war.

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And so people come back in time, anticipating the Terminator by 15

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years and try and put a stop to it.

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And that's the story that he's written.

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It's like a ghost story that becomes a time paradox story and

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things.

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And because of what you said earlier, They shoehorn the daleks

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into it.

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And I have to say that I think that that they do it really, really

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badly and they risk wrecking the story by doing it.

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They do throw another story into another story, but I think they

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do it really well because, well, I'll get to that.

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But because there's really no other technocrat organisation other

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than Scaro.

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Inc. that's going to have time tick.

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And really, Daleks work best when you see them through a slot, and

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you only see them for of minutes on screen each story.

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The less is more with Dalek, certainly by this stage.

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Well, certainly these Daleks.

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I mean, they're terrible, aren't they?

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So in the intervening time, since we last had the Daleks, and it's

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been a very, very long time.

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Five years.

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Yeah.

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Someone said it's like longer between, you know, the Daleks and

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Evil of the Daleks, that's a shorter length of time than the time

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that they've been offscreen.

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Yeah.

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So no one can remember how to do them.

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So there's 3 Daleks left.

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They're in really shockingly bad condition.

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3.5 .

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There was a skirt.

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That was left, which is the which is the bit that you see burning

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in the car park.

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It's early 70s Doctor Who.

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There always a skirt.

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So there's someone tweeted the other day and I'll put it in the

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show notes.

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Was it Clayton?

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Yeah, it was Clayton Hickman.

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He tweeted a screenshot of one of the Daleks from Day of the

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Daleks, whose luminosity emitter thing on the dome, you know, the

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light that flashes the mini Cooper light that flashes to let you

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know that he's talking. is stuck on with duct tape.

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Like there's a cross of duct tape.

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So they're a mess.

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They're really battered.

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No one can remember how to shoot them.

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There's no Dougie Campfield to, you know, do extreme close-ups or

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make them look good.

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Director Paul Bernard had never worked on the show before to the

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point that at the beginning of each episode, at the end of the

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cliffhanger, he has the sting in there because he thought that's

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what you did.

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Because he's what, he's never even watched a previous episode.

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Paul Bernard is a really good painter.

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I don't know if he's still with this.

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No, he really was.

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And he only did directions.

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He only got into TV to support his painting career and he's since

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left and went on to have a really successful.

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No, he's actually a high-end level. proper, yeah, yeah. actually, I

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really liked his stuff, looked him up.

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I actually think he's a very good director, specifically for

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people.

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Yeah.

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I like that the Daleks, so the other monsters in the cupboard

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literally, you don't see them.

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You know, the one thing we haven't mentioned, I was holding off

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deliberately.

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But the reason they feel shoe horned and they don't have much

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space is because this is actually about the glamour and apologies

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because this is a kind of contentious point to make now.

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But back in those days, terrorism was glamorous.

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A lot of sympathy was being given to the PLO.

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Don't forget the 1968 Israeli border war, that 6 day war that was

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seen to Israel really kind of tit their PR job in in that one.

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It was seen as being expansionist and without very much.

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Anyway, the public opinion at the time was that the PLO had a

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worthy complaint, and as long as they didn't affect any citizens

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even the IRA, but weirdly enough, was actually seeing more

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sympathetic light than it would be later on in the 70s, according

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to it.

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Well, you do use the word terrorist this year and it comes up in

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the mutants again.

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Exactly. vastly different way.

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It was glamorous because of Leila Khaled.

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Yes, I wonder where that name's going to come up again.

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And, of course, he was actually an incredibly stunning girl who

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was who happened to be a PLO.

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And, of course, Patty Hearst, who was the daughter of Awesome

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Wilt?

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No, but she was the daughter of William Randolph Hurst and

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subsequent star of many John Waters films.

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In between those 2 things.

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She was one of the kids who was, in effect, kidnapped, the

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daughter of a, you know, the story, don't you?

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The daughter of the empire.

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Is it the character that, um, Awson Wells-based, his citizen Kane

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film on, and she was kidnapped and developed something that, you

253
00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:38.100
know, we later all knew to be called Stockholm Syndrome.

254
00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:40.080
She became sympathetic with her keepers.

255
00:10:40.139 --> 00:10:43.860
And she was then filmed doing naughty things with a gun, holding

256
00:10:43.860 --> 00:10:44.220
things up.

257
00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:47.039
Apparently she didn't actually injure anybody, but she spent time

258
00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:47.519
in prison.

259
00:10:47.580 --> 00:10:50.639
And of course, that's why John Waters discovered her, and she's in

260
00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:52.139
some really funny John Waters film.

261
00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:56.039
There's a really great interview with Paddy Hearst in John Waters

262
00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:59.940
book role models, which came out a few years ago, and I would urge

263
00:10:59.940 --> 00:11:04.980
anyone who's interested in the background of Annat in this one

264
00:11:04.980 --> 00:11:08.700
played by Annat Barry to look it up.

265
00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:12.240
Fascinatingly, of course, Annat in the script was not a woman.

266
00:11:12.299 --> 00:11:14.820
Originally, was she originally?

267
00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:19.559
She was assumed to be male and Paul Bernard decided, no, look

268
00:11:19.559 --> 00:11:20.220
let's have a woman.

269
00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:20.820
This is the future.

270
00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:24.899
Let's have a woman who is getting down and dirty and really mostly

271
00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:25.860
in charge of this group.

272
00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:28.559
There's only, we only see one person superior to her.

273
00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:30.659
And he comes in later too.

274
00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:33.000
He comes in later and indeed defers to her.

275
00:11:33.059 --> 00:11:36.539
Like he questions some of her decisions, but it's not because

276
00:11:36.539 --> 00:11:37.259
she's a woman.

277
00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:40.259
It's because he doesn't agree with the way she has done things.

278
00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:43.139
He's got a great moustache, that guy.

279
00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:44.759
There are some great moustaches in Doctor Who.

280
00:11:44.820 --> 00:11:47.100
Oh, she got Playgirl.com.

281
00:11:47.100 --> 00:11:48.659
Yeah.

282
00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:53.700
And we've also got TV's version of Malcolm McDowell playing Stahl

283
00:11:53.700 --> 00:11:54.360
whatever his name is.

284
00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:58.980
Scott Fredericks. would later appear menacing Paul Yorick in Image

285
00:11:58.980 --> 00:11:59.639
of the Fendal.

286
00:11:59.700 --> 00:12:00.299
He's so pretty.

287
00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:01.379
Who is it?

288
00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:02.639
Scott Fredericks.

289
00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:04.320
Oh, yes, Boaz.

290
00:12:04.379 --> 00:12:05.519
Boaz.

291
00:12:05.580 --> 00:12:05.820
Yeah.

292
00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:06.720
Featherboat.

293
00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:07.379
Feather to his back.

294
00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:08.039
Feather Boaz, yeah.

295
00:12:08.100 --> 00:12:08.820
Featherboat.

296
00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:13.139
They're all sort of vaguely kind of sexy names, I was going to

297
00:12:13.139 --> 00:12:13.620
say.

298
00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:15.720
They are.

299
00:12:15.779 --> 00:12:19.259
But they're also the most convincing of the characters and players

300
00:12:19.259 --> 00:12:22.980
in this, and I think they're the reason that the show kind of

301
00:12:22.980 --> 00:12:26.519
works and you're not, look, okay, I'm going to put it out there.

302
00:12:26.580 --> 00:12:29.820
A lot of these are a little trenchant. to sit through, especially

303
00:12:29.820 --> 00:12:33.120
if you're doing a seasonal viewing simply because the pacing and

304
00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:36.240
timing of early 70s television is not what we're accustomed to

305
00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:36.600
now.

306
00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:40.740
I actually find the early 60s ones pacier than these ones.

307
00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:45.120
But the pacing of the editing in these is continuing something you

308
00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:50.580
commented on last season, Nathan, which is the characters say, oh

309
00:12:50.580 --> 00:12:51.480
let's go investigate that.

310
00:12:51.539 --> 00:12:53.460
And we don't see the travel time. just see them there.

311
00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:54.120
Yeah.

312
00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:57.120
And that certainly happens in this season as well.

313
00:12:57.179 --> 00:13:00.960
And with Day of the Daleks, we have a similar conceit to Inferno

314
00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:04.379
where we're switching between this time to time zones rather than

315
00:13:04.379 --> 00:13:06.600
to realities.

316
00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:12.419
And the action moves quite quickly in places, but then slows down

317
00:13:12.419 --> 00:13:17.039
for conversations, like that conversation between Joe, the doctor

318
00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:20.820
and the controller played by...

319
00:13:21.179 --> 00:13:23.639
Can we get onto Aubrey fabulouswoods.com?

320
00:13:23.700 --> 00:13:24.840
He's so good.

321
00:13:24.899 --> 00:13:29.220
When I was a little boy, the very 1st, I was one once, the very

322
00:13:29.220 --> 00:13:33.899
1st single, I forced my poor mother to buy me was Sammy Davis Jr

323
00:13:33.899 --> 00:13:37.559
singing The Candyman from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory

324
00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:38.279
from 1971.

325
00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:41.639
If you get out the video and watch it again, as many of us do, the

326
00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:45.659
Gene Wilder and far more proper Willy Wonka.

327
00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:47.159
Guess who sings Candyman in that?

328
00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:49.139
Aubrey Woods.

329
00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:50.580
Camp is up.

330
00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:51.360
So good.

331
00:13:51.419 --> 00:13:53.759
In Hessian sack full of candy cones.

332
00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:56.639
He is really nuts and he's really, really good.

333
00:13:56.700 --> 00:13:57.960
And I think he's amazing in this.

334
00:13:58.019 --> 00:14:00.840
So he and the terrorists are the things that make this work.

335
00:14:01.019 --> 00:14:04.919
Oh, and don't forget the pants, people on the Thermins as his UFO

336
00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:07.379
shadow operative, moon-based goals.

337
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:11.039
How freaking cool is the is the future when everyone's in Nehru

338
00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:12.000
suits working for Shadow?

339
00:14:12.059 --> 00:14:15.419
It is operated by gesture, which is what we're seeing in computers

340
00:14:15.419 --> 00:14:15.659
now.

341
00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:20.399
There is now there is now a one-handed keyboard that DJs can use

342
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:22.679
and play notes into their mix.

343
00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:24.720
Most DJs have worked like that for years, do you?

344
00:14:24.779 --> 00:14:25.860
In one-handed.

345
00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:28.799
Oh, so just so that people know exactly what we're talking about.

346
00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:31.200
So we go to the future.

347
00:14:32.820 --> 00:14:36.600
So we go to the future in Aubrey Woods is the controller of a kind

348
00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:40.620
of region and he has this secretarial stuff with shiny, shiny

349
00:14:40.620 --> 00:14:42.179
faces and blonde air.

350
00:14:42.179 --> 00:14:45.899
And he also has a lot of...

351
00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:50.340
Is this the moment where I can have my nerd goes on of the story?

352
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:51.659
peaking early.

353
00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:52.500
It's even better.

354
00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:53.279
Thank you.

355
00:14:53.340 --> 00:14:54.179
It's even better.

356
00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:55.379
It's been a while.

357
00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:56.519
It's even better than that.

358
00:14:56.580 --> 00:15:01.919
He reaches out and touches a pretty much like a 4tran card, which

359
00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:04.679
looks metallic, and he's able to read the information on it just

360
00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:05.399
by touching it.

361
00:15:05.460 --> 00:15:10.320
Now, I had an exciting little Frisson boy nerd moment when I

362
00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:14.279
thought, ah, maybe the skin effect they have is some kind of dalek

363
00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:17.039
nanotech mutation thing where their skin.

364
00:15:17.100 --> 00:15:20.460
The way that the girls are able to operate the termini, without

365
00:15:20.460 --> 00:15:23.159
actually touching it, that they have perhaps a field interface

366
00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:26.399
over their skin and he's able to read the data on a card just by

367
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:26.759
touching it.

368
00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:31.620
Like those people who get magnets, some putaneous magnets inserted

369
00:15:31.620 --> 00:15:35.340
in them and they can feel, you know, like microwaves and various

370
00:15:35.340 --> 00:15:35.820
other things.

371
00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:37.200
It could be like that.

372
00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:39.480
There's a cybernetics expert, Kevin Warwick.

373
00:15:39.539 --> 00:15:42.960
And he's been interviewed for the Doctor Who DVD range and he has

374
00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:46.860
been implanting RFID chips and nearfield communication stuff into

375
00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:50.340
his body into his wrist and whatnot to unlock his front door.

376
00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:52.799
And he's really...

377
00:15:52.860 --> 00:15:54.360
Well, he's...

378
00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:57.059
It's his sounding very graham. very a bunch of keys, really.

379
00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:58.500
I mean, he's a professor.

380
00:15:58.620 --> 00:15:59.220
Is it that hard?

381
00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:00.179
They're not that heavy.

382
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:01.019
It's always losing.

383
00:16:01.019 --> 00:16:02.519
Processor inside the netics, you know.

384
00:16:02.580 --> 00:16:04.980
And he is...

385
00:16:04.980 --> 00:16:07.080
He's interested in Dr. and interested in the cyberman.

386
00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:08.100
Come on, we love him.

387
00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:08.940
Yeah, yeah.

388
00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:12.000
He's very, you know, it may not be something I would do, but he's

389
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:12.480
very, very interesting.

390
00:16:12.539 --> 00:16:13.919
Yeah, will become like him.

391
00:16:13.980 --> 00:16:14.580
Yeah.

392
00:16:14.580 --> 00:16:18.000
A bit annoying when you, you know, shaking hands with your wife.

393
00:16:18.059 --> 00:16:19.320
It's a bit cold, love.

394
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:23.159
It is interesting, though, that we started talking about the

395
00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:25.860
dialects and straightaway veered into talking about the humans of

396
00:16:25.860 --> 00:16:27.899
this story because they are the more interesting.

397
00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:29.159
Well, that's what they're doing the voices.

398
00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:31.440
No, to the people who never do the most.

399
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:33.059
I've never done before, and oddly never will again.

400
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:33.600
But you know what?

401
00:16:33.659 --> 00:16:34.860
They lost the ring modulator.

402
00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:38.340
They were doing the voices live from the suits.

403
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:39.539
There wasn't the pre-recorded thing.

404
00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:42.120
They were doing them in the little things and then trying to treat

405
00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:42.659
them after.

406
00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:43.379
They always did do that.

407
00:16:43.379 --> 00:16:45.539
Yeah, but they didn't have a ring modulator.

408
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:48.840
So they were kind of guessing around and the early blokes, David

409
00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:50.039
Graham was busy.

410
00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:53.399
I don't know what, driving Sylvia Anderson around somewhere and

411
00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:54.179
Peter Hawkins.

412
00:16:54.179 --> 00:16:58.919
Peter Hawkins was just drunk on a big ship with Tom the Cabin boy

413
00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:00.240
I think, as Captain Pugwash.

414
00:17:00.299 --> 00:17:01.019
Oh okay.

415
00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:03.360
Because he's captain, of course, because that's a 60s thing.

416
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:05.759
So Peter Gilbert and Oliver Messalin.

417
00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:06.359
Yes they're the ones.

418
00:17:06.420 --> 00:17:08.700
Oliver Messalin has a hugely impressive name.

419
00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:09.539
He does.

420
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:12.299
I keep thinking he's a mid-century composer, but he's not.

421
00:17:12.299 --> 00:17:17.579
They have both said that the reason they did it so flat was they

422
00:17:17.579 --> 00:17:21.059
were actually told that the sort of hysterical thing was part of

423
00:17:21.059 --> 00:17:21.960
the voice modulation.

424
00:17:22.019 --> 00:17:25.920
So sort of the very high, like the high pitch that Peter Hawkins

425
00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:29.400
and Graham did, that it would be done in post.

426
00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:32.940
So they were told, give as neutral a performances you can, so we

427
00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:36.599
can play with it because as we've just, as we've just said, they

428
00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:38.460
hadn't done it for 5 years, no one on the current production

429
00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:38.819
team.

430
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:40.259
No. had done it.

431
00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:40.799
Had seen that.

432
00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:41.220
Yeah, yeah.

433
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:43.559
You know, so it was like, oh, what are we doing?

434
00:17:43.619 --> 00:17:45.059
And yeah, they...

435
00:17:45.059 --> 00:17:46.619
Well, we're doing Planet of the Apes, aren't we?

436
00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:48.779
Yeah, we are doing Planet of the Apes.

437
00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:50.220
So there's no room for Daleks.

438
00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:52.920
But, I mean, the Daleks, fortunately, are barely in us.

439
00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:55.619
They do their traditional episode one reveal.

440
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:58.380
You know, it's called something of the Dalek, so the Daleks will

441
00:17:58.380 --> 00:17:59.400
be the Cliffhanger.

442
00:17:59.460 --> 00:18:02.039
Ooh, it's the Daleks in, you know, in the cliffhanger to episode

443
00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:02.460
one.

444
00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:04.799
But of course, they've appeared midway through the episode for

445
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:05.640
like...

446
00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:06.000
Whoops.

447
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:10.079
Just a terrible suddenly crash zoom where one of them says

448
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:10.920
report.

449
00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:15.359
You know, it's like a shocking... you just see the skirt of them?

450
00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:17.039
Okay.

451
00:18:17.099 --> 00:18:18.839
Do you know my best bloop in this one?

452
00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:20.160
The Ogons.

453
00:18:20.220 --> 00:18:22.740
And any ogons are the bilottis of this story, aren't they?

454
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.559
But I mean, you've got grunting...

455
00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:28.680
And then you see the 2nd one, just totally forget what how he's

456
00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:31.079
meant to be doing the voice and Aubrey was supposed to be doing no

457
00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:31.619
complications.

458
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:34.140
Yes, it's great.

459
00:18:34.259 --> 00:18:37.140
They're really, really shockingly terrible, aren't they?

460
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:38.339
But I mean, they make the...

461
00:18:38.339 --> 00:18:39.420
I think they look good.

462
00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:40.079
I think they're very good.

463
00:18:40.140 --> 00:18:42.480
I think there's that one moment where it's a bit questionable

464
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:46.140
would have been shot very early on and they do later have a great

465
00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:50.039
deal of consistency in terms of movement and choreography and in

466
00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:51.900
terms of characterisation.

467
00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:54.779
Indeed, after that 1st scene, they don't really speak very much

468
00:18:54.779 --> 00:18:58.440
they're just big heavies who will mess you up.

469
00:18:58.500 --> 00:19:01.980
And they, I mean, they kind of work thematically and I do want to

470
00:19:01.980 --> 00:19:04.200
kind of try and rescue this a little bit.

471
00:19:04.380 --> 00:19:06.359
We don't sound enthused about this too.

472
00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:07.440
No, I love this story.

473
00:19:07.500 --> 00:19:09.960
But the Darks...

474
00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:11.400
I mean, I think it works out really well.

475
00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:11.700
Yeah.

476
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:17.519
In Galaxy, Manhattan, the dialects represent a sort of capitalism

477
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:18.960
run wild, you know what I mean?

478
00:19:19.019 --> 00:19:21.900
And that's a story where there's oppressed, unemployed, homeless

479
00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:25.079
people living in Central Park, and the Daleks are building this

480
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:27.420
sort of luxury skyscraper and things.

481
00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:30.660
And they're very corporate and Mr. Diagoras, who comes along is

482
00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:33.660
wearing a sharp suit and he's, you know, sort of terribly

483
00:19:33.660 --> 00:19:34.200
capitalist.

484
00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:37.019
And I think the same thing is happening here because you get the

485
00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:41.460
Daleks are the people who motivate the controller to exploit the

486
00:19:41.460 --> 00:19:42.000
workers.

487
00:19:42.059 --> 00:19:46.380
And this is something that's starting to happen a little bit in

488
00:19:46.380 --> 00:19:49.079
Doctor Who now that's starting, I think, to rescue and

489
00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:50.819
rehabilitate John Pertwee.

490
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:55.920
So the Daleks exploit the workers and they tell Aubrey Woods to

491
00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:00.779
increase the output of mine, blah, blah, blah, sector 12 and

492
00:20:00.779 --> 00:20:04.200
Aubrey Wood says, well, that will kill the workers and they say

493
00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:07.200
well, you know, only the week workers and, you know, everyone else

494
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:08.279
will survive and things.

495
00:20:08.339 --> 00:20:13.500
And so what's kind of happened is this capitalist depression is

496
00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:18.900
the result of whatever happened in sort of 1971 when the

497
00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:19.920
conference blew up.

498
00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:25.799
So I guess the Daleks sort of have some kind of thematic thing

499
00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:26.819
going for them.

500
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:29.579
But they're really ineptly done.

501
00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:33.900
And what they've forgotten is that sort of Whitticarian idea that

502
00:20:33.900 --> 00:20:37.740
the Daleks are the doctor's nemesis and that they're

503
00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:39.119
representations of evil.

504
00:20:39.180 --> 00:20:44.220
And so we don't even get the doctor confronting the Daleks.

505
00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:46.859
No, they sort of strap him to a table and shout at him and then

506
00:20:46.859 --> 00:20:48.119
put him in a cell.

507
00:20:48.180 --> 00:20:50.759
Yeah, well, give him to Aubrey Aubrey Woods to talk.

508
00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:54.599
Yeah, there was a conversation written that was mainly just to

509
00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:57.960
explain how the Daleks seem to have survived the events of evil of

510
00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:00.599
the Daleks and they decided, look, it's not necessary, which is

511
00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:03.059
quite interesting when you consider that's kind of what the new

512
00:21:03.059 --> 00:21:04.500
series do with the Daleks.

513
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:06.720
You know, the 1st few times the Daleks appear in the new series

514
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:07.259
is.

515
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:09.059
And that's the last of the Daleks that have been destroyed.

516
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:10.079
Oh, except for the ones over here.

517
00:21:10.140 --> 00:21:11.339
Okay, we'll destroy them.

518
00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:13.559
That's the last except for the one except you know what?

519
00:21:13.619 --> 00:21:15.059
just going to stop explaining it.

520
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:17.220
That's perfect sense because they have time travel.

521
00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:21.299
Oh, we haven't even mentioned Dalek Invasion of Earth 20 cough

522
00:21:21.299 --> 00:21:22.079
cough, whatever.

523
00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:23.160
That was actually meant to be.

524
00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:24.960
They do mention it though, don't they?

525
00:21:25.019 --> 00:21:25.799
57?

526
00:21:25.859 --> 00:21:27.539
We have invaded Earth again or something.

527
00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:29.039
We have changed the course of history.

528
00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:30.000
Yeah.

529
00:21:30.059 --> 00:21:33.119
And I think the implication here is this time they've invaded

530
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:35.039
Earth before their previous invasion.

531
00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:38.759
Yes, this is meant to be earlier. 20th century.

532
00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:39.420
Which makes sense.

533
00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:43.259
Not a lot of sense when you got certainly got the sense that the

534
00:21:43.259 --> 00:21:48.000
Scorovian Daleks in that one was their 1st go, which is why there

535
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:50.279
were a bit pants that the whole thing you wanted to hollow out

536
00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:53.640
habited planet, where they make, you know, with a magnet a spear

537
00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:56.279
and go flying, all that nonsense for duh.

538
00:21:56.339 --> 00:21:59.220
Oh, yeah, yeah, but Russell 2 Davies explained that, so all is

539
00:21:59.220 --> 00:21:59.640
forgiven.

540
00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:01.799
You're reconning.

541
00:22:01.859 --> 00:22:02.339
Yes.

542
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:04.440
Can we talk per tweak?

543
00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:06.299
Yeah, you know, I think I think we should.

544
00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:08.339
I was avoiding that because I haven't had a go for a while.

545
00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:09.240
Yes, go on.

546
00:22:09.539 --> 00:22:11.940
You don't want to tell that.

547
00:22:12.059 --> 00:22:15.359
Oh, I wanted to talk about the Bogdanovich limitation effect.

548
00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:20.220
That's what prevents them from going back and trying to

549
00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:20.819
assassinate.

550
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:24.119
Can either of you explain the tag scene because, okay, my research

551
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:27.420
for this was, in fact, reading the target book, I'll come out and

552
00:22:27.420 --> 00:22:27.900
say it.

553
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:28.799
I'll be out in a bit.

554
00:22:28.859 --> 00:22:30.059
I didn't watch the TV thing.

555
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:31.740
I read the target book again.

556
00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:32.579
Is it Terence?

557
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:34.319
Yeah, it is.

558
00:22:34.380 --> 00:22:35.579
But it's good.

559
00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:36.779
Are you serious?

560
00:22:36.779 --> 00:22:37.980
sometimes good.

561
00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:39.240
Yeah, he is.

562
00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:40.619
Most often when he's got a bit of time.

563
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:43.980
He's certainly, you know, the 1st author I read with any, any

564
00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:46.319
truth persistence at the age of whatever.

565
00:22:46.380 --> 00:22:50.700
The tag scene is cut out of the TV version where they meet again

566
00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:52.500
in the lab, simply for a time.

567
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:52.740
Okay.

568
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:53.339
It was filmed.

569
00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:56.579
The whole Bogdanovich limitation, I said, is surely that you can't

570
00:22:56.579 --> 00:22:57.000
meet yourself.

571
00:22:57.059 --> 00:22:59.460
So what's going on in that 1st scene and what's going on in that

572
00:22:59.460 --> 00:23:00.059
tag scene?

573
00:23:00.180 --> 00:23:04.740
It's that you can't, for instance, the future doctor can't say to

574
00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:07.319
his past self, don't press that button because I'll come into

575
00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:10.559
existence because then he's not there to say, don't press that

576
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:11.819
button or I won't come into existence.

577
00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:14.220
But that's exactly what happens around the console.

578
00:23:14.339 --> 00:23:15.420
And we do it all the time.

579
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:16.319
Do you know what I mean?

580
00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:17.400
Like in Doctor Who now.

581
00:23:17.460 --> 00:23:21.779
I mean, Blenovic limitation effect is essentially just a crummy

582
00:23:21.779 --> 00:23:25.559
McGuffin, you know, like it's an I'll explain later, essentially.

583
00:23:25.619 --> 00:23:26.160
Yeah, yeah.

584
00:23:26.220 --> 00:23:27.420
It's not actually a thing.

585
00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:28.859
And they ignore it routinely.

586
00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:31.799
Does it come up again in Modronundu?

587
00:23:31.859 --> 00:23:33.599
Yeah, Is that the thing that...

588
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:38.279
Yeah, and wherein it becomes too sentient beings, I suppose, from

589
00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:42.299
2 different time zones, cannot touch or else...

590
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:43.140
Sorry.

591
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:43.920
I thought it was the same.

592
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:47.279
Yeah, so yeah, 2 of the same sentient being from different time

593
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:51.420
zones can't. can't touch, can't interact physically without there

594
00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:54.359
being a massive explosion of time differential energy.

595
00:23:54.420 --> 00:23:59.339
Except Kazra and Sardic hugs himself in...

596
00:23:59.460 --> 00:24:01.619
The Christmas Carol. doesn't explode.

597
00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:04.740
I mean, that's to me, that's the least questionable thing about

598
00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:06.480
the Christmas carol, but we're getting ahead of ourselves

599
00:24:06.539 --> 00:24:07.799
outrageous.

600
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:09.359
No, no, I'm not saying I didn't like it.

601
00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:11.400
I just said, I just said there is quite...

602
00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:12.960
Oh, no, I totally really care about it.

603
00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:18.119
No, but per we in this, I think it's continuing something we were

604
00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:22.200
talking about last season. which is his character is softening.

605
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:26.940
In this instance, he doesn't have to be almost forcibly dragged to

606
00:24:26.940 --> 00:24:28.259
come in and help out at the peace conference.

607
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:30.299
Let Prince Stewart turns up and says, I need you and they have a

608
00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:33.240
bit of banter back and forth, which you always know is going to

609
00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:35.880
end up with the doctor going down there, but he's just going

610
00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:36.960
through...

611
00:24:37.019 --> 00:24:39.480
I was going to say, he doesn't actually have to be cajoled, does

612
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:39.779
he?

613
00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:42.000
You know, what the brigadier wants.

614
00:24:42.059 --> 00:24:47.700
It's just sort of a playful, awful slash moment.

615
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:48.720
Please don't very quickly.

616
00:24:48.779 --> 00:24:49.680
Come on.

617
00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:54.180
You know, it's gone from the antagonistic relationship they would

618
00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:57.420
have sometimes in the early seasons of the doctor saying, no, I

619
00:24:57.420 --> 00:24:58.500
just want to have a look at this.

620
00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:01.500
Sorry, what's the name of the thing I've written on the prop to

621
00:25:01.500 --> 00:25:04.680
actually... get to that later in the season.

622
00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:06.420
Yeah, the naughty thing is pinned onto props.

623
00:25:06.539 --> 00:25:08.160
Yeah, that's...

624
00:25:08.220 --> 00:25:09.539
I think I missed that. don't you?

625
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:13.200
I actually miss when Pertwe's doctor had a real kind of reason to

626
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:14.039
push against something.

627
00:25:14.099 --> 00:25:17.220
He's just a little bit too comfy, cosy home counties.

628
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:20.519
No, you see, I actually think that it's a bit cleverer than that.

629
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:23.400
He's not as obnoxious as he normally is with Reginald style.

630
00:25:23.460 --> 00:25:25.559
So Reginald Styles, he's pretty awful.

631
00:25:25.619 --> 00:25:26.880
Being obnoxious.

632
00:25:26.940 --> 00:25:29.039
He's being obstructionist.

633
00:25:29.099 --> 00:25:32.220
He's not telling us the truth about what he experienced the night

634
00:25:32.220 --> 00:25:32.880
before, all of that.

635
00:25:33.539 --> 00:25:36.299
Yeah, if anyone deserves to be treated obnoxiously.

636
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:38.039
And Kertwe is actually quiet.

637
00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:39.900
He doesn't push him.

638
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:44.220
He sort of lets him tell all of the kind of strange confabulations

639
00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:47.160
he comes up with to explain things, but he doesn't push him and

640
00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:48.059
he's not obnoxious.

641
00:25:48.059 --> 00:25:52.619
And this is a civil servant who you might expect Pertley to be

642
00:25:52.619 --> 00:25:53.099
horrible to.

643
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:56.759
And then we do see him being very comfortable in home counties in

644
00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:02.039
episode one where he's slappably reading the wine cellar.

645
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:03.839
Look, at least he's stealing the wine.

646
00:26:03.900 --> 00:26:04.680
Do you know what I mean?

647
00:26:04.740 --> 00:26:06.000
That's a little trout and touch.

648
00:26:06.059 --> 00:26:07.200
He's at least stealing this stuff.

649
00:26:07.259 --> 00:26:09.660
And you know, he's not just having a glass of wine.

650
00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:13.200
He pulls out a bottle and 3 wedges of cheese and grapes or what.

651
00:26:13.259 --> 00:26:14.279
And Joe's just like, what?

652
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:16.079
has a bouquet.

653
00:26:16.140 --> 00:26:17.220
Yeah.

654
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:19.500
It's sardonic but not cynical.

655
00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:22.019
And we get that we get that charming scene where...

656
00:26:22.019 --> 00:26:23.339
Cody rides her eyes, yeah.

657
00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:26.220
Yeah, Joe tries to give Benton some food and Mike comes in and

658
00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:28.680
you're not meant to be eating on duty and sends Benton away and he

659
00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:29.339
eats.

660
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:31.079
And what about that date, Miss Grant that we never have?

661
00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:32.099
She's, yeah, right.

662
00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:37.380
So I'm not, like, I'm not a massive fan of action pertswing.

663
00:26:37.500 --> 00:26:39.599
I don't think that the doctor should be running around hitting

664
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:40.259
people, frankly.

665
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:42.000
It's not havoc pertly anymore.

666
00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:43.619
It's profile pertly, is it?

667
00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:46.140
I am a little bit of a fan of the moment.

668
00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:47.339
Terry Walsh.

669
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:50.220
Yeah, yeah, just doing the stunts.

670
00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:51.960
So we have to mention Terry Walsh is not in this story.

671
00:26:52.019 --> 00:26:55.440
We contractually obligated to mention Terry Walsh every story

672
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:56.160
from...

673
00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:58.799
Terry Walsh's son is now following the podcast.

674
00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:02.400
I believe he found our comment for punching Terry Walsh in the

675
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:02.579
face.

676
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:05.460
I do hope he realises that that's not meant as an instruction

677
00:27:05.460 --> 00:27:07.019
because we think his dad's wonderful.

678
00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:08.940
So we're going to start Walsh watch.

679
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:14.940
So profile was like his stunt team thing that he...

680
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:16.740
I think it's just Terry standing side on.

681
00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:18.900
Oh, okay, profile, obviously.

682
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:21.359
Yeah, they got a bit pansy.

683
00:27:21.420 --> 00:27:24.599
Someone at the BBC was getting smarty pants because Derek Weir

684
00:27:24.599 --> 00:27:30.240
covered in fleas still to this day, was both an agent and a

685
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:32.880
stuntman and they didn't like him having 2 jobs.

686
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:35.519
So which is pretty much why Havoc disbanded.

687
00:27:35.579 --> 00:27:39.839
So Persui gets attacked by Ashura or someone in episode one.

688
00:27:39.900 --> 00:27:43.559
And he's doing his horrible wine and cheese thing.

689
00:27:43.619 --> 00:27:48.539
And he actually manages to attack Shura, knock him unconscious

690
00:27:48.539 --> 00:27:51.900
without putting his glass down, and then when Shura falls over, he

691
00:27:51.900 --> 00:27:52.500
takes a sip.

692
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:55.140
We don't, oh, it's awful.

693
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:57.299
I'm afraid I like it too.

694
00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:00.000
Like, it's the kind of thing I think Roger Moore tries to do it as

695
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:00.599
James Bond.

696
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:02.220
Yeah, he doesn't get away with it either exactly.

697
00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:07.380
But I think I think Pertwee does get away with it because Roger

698
00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:11.220
Moore would do it and, you know, possibly still kick the body

699
00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:14.039
while it's down because that's a very James Bond thing to do.

700
00:28:14.099 --> 00:28:17.339
Whereas the doctor is about, okay, remove the immediate threat. and

701
00:28:17.339 --> 00:28:17.700
carry on.

702
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:21.599
Well, the reason the stunts always looks so terrible in the 70s is

703
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:24.059
Roger was too lazy to do any proper rehearsals.

704
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:27.359
Yeah, Roger would just do a little...

705
00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:27.779
That's it.

706
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:28.259
Yeah, yeah.

707
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:28.559
Yeah.

708
00:28:28.619 --> 00:28:32.099
So he is very obnoxious and he's sort of horribly middle class and

709
00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:33.240
kind of annoying.

710
00:28:33.299 --> 00:28:37.799
But when it comes time, he sees the oppressed workers from a

711
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:41.700
distance in a car park because the future consists largely of sort

712
00:28:41.700 --> 00:28:43.559
of car parks and the South Bank.

713
00:28:43.619 --> 00:28:44.519
Yeah, terrible.

714
00:28:44.579 --> 00:28:46.140
Cottage is under bridges.

715
00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:50.220
But then he goes into bat on their behalf.

716
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:51.359
Do you know what I mean?

717
00:28:51.420 --> 00:28:54.660
And what we find is increasingly in this season, but we did find

718
00:28:54.660 --> 00:28:58.799
it last season as well, that he goes into bat on the progressive

719
00:28:58.799 --> 00:28:59.940
side of causes.

720
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:04.380
And here it's very, very clear where he talks about the oppressed

721
00:29:04.380 --> 00:29:08.160
workers being fit only to lead the lives of a dog, about how

722
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:11.279
they're being, you know, monstered by secret police and all of

723
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:11.880
that sort of thing.

724
00:29:11.940 --> 00:29:14.460
And so Pertuys sort of dropped the obnoxious thing.

725
00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:18.839
He still does sort of come in as a sort of patrician saviour who

726
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:21.660
you know, intervenes from a sort of moral high ground.

727
00:29:21.660 --> 00:29:24.960
That was the political savvy at the time, though, wasn't it?

728
00:29:25.019 --> 00:29:28.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah. ingratiate yourself with the upper glasses and

729
00:29:28.140 --> 00:29:32.400
then say, excuse me, you people have a real problem here because

730
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:35.339
of the way you're treating your quote unquote lower classes.

731
00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:39.660
In fact, that scene where he's actually delivering that polemic

732
00:29:39.660 --> 00:29:44.940
about the oppression of the workers from a lovely couch with wine

733
00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:48.359
and grapes and all of those things, which sort of parallels season

734
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:49.500
one.

735
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:54.059
And he doesn't do his usual blustering, you know, attacking Mr

736
00:29:54.059 --> 00:29:57.240
Brown Rose or horrible walker from the ministry or whatever.

737
00:29:57.299 --> 00:30:01.380
He's actually quite sort of urbane and quite calm about it.

738
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:04.859
And I think it is an improvement in his character.

739
00:30:04.859 --> 00:30:12.660
And spoiler alert, I'm finding myself not disliking poetry quite

740
00:30:12.660 --> 00:30:14.220
as much as I expected to.

741
00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:18.720
Dear listener, my string of pearls was about to snap from the way

742
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:20.460
I am clutching them.

743
00:30:20.519 --> 00:30:21.900
My word name.

744
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:25.259
I think Nathan's speaking entirely honourable and fair about this

745
00:30:25.259 --> 00:30:28.380
because the character of the doctor in this is entirely honourable

746
00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:28.799
re right.

747
00:30:28.859 --> 00:30:31.920
He's there is glorious without the vein in front of us.

748
00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:34.380
He's automatically sympathetic to the terrorists.

749
00:30:34.500 --> 00:30:36.539
Even when they're tying him up in the cellar.

750
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:37.619
And thank you.

751
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:40.619
Can we just mention that, the doctor gets some proper biffo in

752
00:30:40.619 --> 00:30:42.480
this, and how good is the casting?

753
00:30:42.539 --> 00:30:46.380
They're very rodent featured, no offence to the actor, but there

754
00:30:46.380 --> 00:30:50.039
is no one in this I don't thoroughly believe is true to their

755
00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:50.339
part.

756
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:51.960
The casting of this is superb.

757
00:30:52.019 --> 00:30:55.680
And the bloke at the end, not to spoil it for anyone who hasn't

758
00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:56.039
watched it.

759
00:30:56.099 --> 00:30:59.279
But we's jailer. is one of the most convincing villains I've seen

760
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:00.059
in Doctor Who ever.

761
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:04.259
There's yeah, there's no one in this that I would say is poorly

762
00:31:04.259 --> 00:31:04.619
cast.

763
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:09.420
And what's really great about pert we softening in the role in

764
00:31:09.420 --> 00:31:10.140
this one?

765
00:31:10.140 --> 00:31:11.400
Like a ripe breeze.

766
00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:13.440
Like a rice left out on the lawn?

767
00:31:13.500 --> 00:31:15.000
It has a good runny Camembert.

768
00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:17.099
It has a great, it has a great deal of character.

769
00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:22.799
Is this the 1st time that we have seen him inspire a villain to

770
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:23.460
become heroic?

771
00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:26.279
Ah, okay.

772
00:31:26.339 --> 00:31:27.660
Savages?

773
00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:30.599
Wasn't there some consideration of what was going on?

774
00:31:30.660 --> 00:31:31.319
Absolutely.

775
00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:31.680
Absolutely.

776
00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:31.980
Yeah.

777
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:34.799
So I was thinking, particularly with Pertwee's doctor, you know

778
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:37.019
usually he just slaps the villain of alphabet or what have you.

779
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:38.400
He actually saved his life.

780
00:31:38.460 --> 00:31:39.059
Yeah, yeah.

781
00:31:39.059 --> 00:31:40.980
He does prevent them from killing him.

782
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:44.099
He saves the controller's life and the controller sort of thinks

783
00:31:44.099 --> 00:31:46.980
about what he said and not only actively helps him from that

784
00:31:46.980 --> 00:31:47.220
point.

785
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:49.859
I think he saved him because he had great heroic death.

786
00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:52.559
I think he saved him because he was really envious of that peacock

787
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:53.400
green neighbourhood.

788
00:31:53.460 --> 00:31:55.500
He really wanted to wear from season one.

789
00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:57.839
It is a fabulous. mostly about the frost.

790
00:31:57.900 --> 00:31:58.799
Fabulous suit.

791
00:31:58.859 --> 00:32:01.319
So can we talk very briefly about the special edition?

792
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:02.640
I think we should.

793
00:32:02.700 --> 00:32:04.319
So have you seen this?

794
00:32:04.380 --> 00:32:06.900
I saw the special edition when it came out, but as I say, I read

795
00:32:06.900 --> 00:32:08.880
the Tiger book this time, which again was fun.

796
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:12.180
I didn't watch it this time because I wanted the authentic

797
00:32:12.180 --> 00:32:15.420
horrible experience of Peter Messelli in his voice.

798
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:16.680
Was it that bad?

799
00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:17.400
It really is.

800
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:18.660
Oliver Messi.

801
00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:19.559
Oliver Messi.

802
00:32:19.619 --> 00:32:21.480
Oliver Gilbert and Peter Messaline.

803
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:22.319
Yeah, yeah, terrible.

804
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:23.160
Truly terrible.

805
00:32:23.220 --> 00:32:24.539
So what they did for the special edition?

806
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:25.799
A lot of bird noises on the lawn.

807
00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:29.519
They put some crummy CG special effects.

808
00:32:29.579 --> 00:32:33.839
So instead of like council blocks where the controller lives with

809
00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:36.900
his retinue of blonde secretaries.

810
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:39.119
No, I've seen them once in the original cut, I just remember some

811
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:40.619
white concrete...

812
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:41.099
Yeah, yeah.

813
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:44.640
So but instead they're sort of space towers, I think that's

814
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:45.779
actually done rather sympathetically.

815
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:48.960
It's done by Farmageddon, the same chat behind the 5 doctors

816
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:49.980
special edition.

817
00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:50.339
Okay.

818
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:53.700
And Flight of the Darnd, which are 2 of the greatest.

819
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:56.220
The side of the dance. about socks.

820
00:32:56.700 --> 00:32:58.920
We can link to it on the website.

821
00:32:58.980 --> 00:32:59.579
Oh, okay, all right.

822
00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:00.599
You're in for a treat.

823
00:33:00.660 --> 00:33:06.119
Let's just say Farmageddon does a little turn on time flight.

824
00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:07.319
Oh, okay.

825
00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:08.400
It's based on time flight.

826
00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:10.019
But yeah, there's that, of course.

827
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:15.599
Nick Briggs does the new Dalek voices and we have new effects.

828
00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:16.859
We have some new editing.

829
00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:18.900
No, they did a great thing.

830
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:19.319
Yeah.

831
00:33:19.380 --> 00:33:21.539
They got some people that dress up as unit people.

832
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:24.180
They got some people to dress up as Ogre.

833
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:25.740
They got a bunch of Daleks.

834
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:27.119
So, because the final...

835
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:28.799
Do they get Sean Pertley and drag as he's dead?

836
00:33:28.859 --> 00:33:30.480
No, I want that.

837
00:33:30.539 --> 00:33:32.220
Although he did do that for Halloween.

838
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:33.539
He did, and we should stick that.

839
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:35.339
I want that, dude. pretty good, please.

840
00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:37.859
So, and the alp off against Capaldi.

841
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:41.160
With Michelle Gomez in the middle saying, you too.

842
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:46.859
Just be like, it'd be like, Mark of the Rani, only less crap. even

843
00:33:46.859 --> 00:33:47.160
better.

844
00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:53.880
So they restage the giant climactic battle at the end of episode

845
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:56.039
four, which is actually the original location.

846
00:33:56.099 --> 00:34:00.359
They used they used the same type of camera that they filmed the

847
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:01.500
exteriors on.

848
00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:07.380
Because they've got 6 Ogrons and 3 Daleks, and these people are

849
00:34:07.380 --> 00:34:11.219
trying to prevent their entire invasion of Earth from ever

850
00:34:11.219 --> 00:34:11.760
happening.

851
00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:15.239
Even the Daleks are trying to stop it, but they can only afford to

852
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:15.900
send 3 of them.

853
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:19.079
Even Katie said, you know, in subsequent interviews, she and John

854
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:22.139
thought it was all a bit, you know, that is a bit rubbish.

855
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.679
And this is still sort of fairly rubbish, but it does improve

856
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:27.059
things sort of enormously.

857
00:34:27.179 --> 00:34:29.699
Oh, can we just also mention, is this the 1st time I've ever seen

858
00:34:29.699 --> 00:34:34.079
the doctor actively and sensibly, insensibly?

859
00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:38.460
Shoot, a protagonist, sentia being for no good damn reason.

860
00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:39.360
No, seeds of death.

861
00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:44.579
But he's having a great time being Roger Moore with a pistol.

862
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:50.280
The Ice Warrior did have a gun when the doctor shoots the ogre on

863
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:50.579
this.

864
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:51.780
The doctor just comes around the corner.

865
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:53.940
There's one Ogon with his gun raised and the doctor shoots him.

866
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:56.400
The doctor turns around, sees another Oberon, doesn't have a gun

867
00:34:56.400 --> 00:34:59.880
in his hand, takes the time to aim and shoots him.

868
00:34:59.940 --> 00:35:01.440
Does he shoot 2 Ogron?

869
00:35:01.500 --> 00:35:02.820
This is an episode.

870
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:03.179
Yeah.

871
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:05.820
Interestingly enough, in the special edition.

872
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:09.239
They Star Wars it.

873
00:35:09.300 --> 00:35:10.739
The Ogron shoots fast.

874
00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:14.579
They do other things like they cut out the no complications line.

875
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:18.300
They cut out like all sorts of really just sort of inept

876
00:35:18.300 --> 00:35:19.920
directorial moments.

877
00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:21.300
So they do improve it.

878
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:24.420
In the book, it's a shootout, as you say.

879
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:26.820
Okay, the doctor doesn't shoot 1st in the book.

880
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:29.039
I don't like Trout and shooting those.

881
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:29.579
No.

882
00:35:29.579 --> 00:35:31.079
Seeds of death. awful.

883
00:35:31.139 --> 00:35:32.099
It's not very trap.

884
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:38.039
Can I just say, though, I do kind of like the only 3 Daleks aspect

885
00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:43.559
of the story for most of it because I love the idea that Earth is

886
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:45.900
only important enough to warrant 3 Daleks.

887
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:47.940
Oh, I thought there were only the 3 dialects of that region

888
00:35:47.940 --> 00:35:49.619
because it's a region.

889
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:52.980
Maybe England is only important enough to warrant 3 Daleks.

890
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:57.300
Where the final battle scene falls down then is, when, you know

891
00:35:57.300 --> 00:36:01.260
you're shooting the same daleks in different places to make it

892
00:36:01.260 --> 00:36:01.679
look like that.

893
00:36:01.739 --> 00:36:03.960
That usually works. unless one of them is gold.

894
00:36:04.019 --> 00:36:07.619
And we've already been told there's only one gold dalek and

895
00:36:07.619 --> 00:36:09.840
suddenly there's 10 because you're shooting them from different

896
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:10.260
angles.

897
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:12.659
If they just had a shot, the 2 gray Daleks from lots of different

898
00:36:12.659 --> 00:36:13.320
angles.

899
00:36:13.500 --> 00:36:15.119
I think it would have been a lot more convincing.

900
00:36:15.179 --> 00:36:16.260
That wrist rabens.

901
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:18.119
Well, maybe not a lot more convincing.

902
00:36:18.179 --> 00:36:22.079
Well, the gold one, because it draws your eye, immediately tells

903
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:26.460
you that these are just the same 3 props, whereas if you've got

904
00:36:26.460 --> 00:36:31.380
clever editing and, oh, there's the gold dialect and 2 great Alex

905
00:36:31.380 --> 00:36:33.659
and there's a great dialect, and there's 2 more great Alecs there

906
00:36:33.659 --> 00:36:36.840
you would still sit down afterwards and go, oh, hold on, they were

907
00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:39.480
probably the same props, but probably not what you're watching at

908
00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:39.719
the time.

909
00:36:39.900 --> 00:36:42.599
You know why they're that colour, though, don't you?

910
00:36:42.659 --> 00:36:47.099
It's funny you mentioned that the transponder emitter on their

911
00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:48.480
heads were stuck taped on.

912
00:36:48.539 --> 00:36:52.019
They're the colours of minis and mini coopers respectively at the

913
00:36:52.019 --> 00:36:52.199
time.

914
00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:54.360
The gray is a, yeah, it's calf name.

915
00:36:54.420 --> 00:36:58.199
The gold was called something sunset that Mini Coopers came out in

916
00:36:58.199 --> 00:36:59.039
the year before.

917
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:00.239
Lovely.

918
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:03.960
Do you know, we've done the whole of this story without mentioning

919
00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:04.679
Miss Paget.

920
00:37:05.099 --> 00:37:08.219
Oh, she's rather bad. full of poetry.

921
00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:09.420
Yeah, she is one of them.

922
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:12.599
I think possibly though, she's a bit eclipsed by Anat, but maybe

923
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:16.019
maybe that's a direct comparison we can draw, you know, even

924
00:37:16.019 --> 00:37:19.079
though the future is horrible and people are being worked to death

925
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:21.599
at least women aren't just secretaries who are told to shut up by

926
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:23.400
their boss because they're telling the military the truth.

927
00:37:23.460 --> 00:37:25.079
You see, English.

928
00:37:25.139 --> 00:37:25.619
That's a charm.

929
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:26.940
Miss Paget could be a terrorist.

930
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:29.400
That would be a spinoff that I would really like to see.

931
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:32.340
Well, we kind of got it, didn't we?

932
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:37.260
In Age of Steel, Rise of the Cybermen, with Mrs. Moore.

933
00:37:37.380 --> 00:37:38.699
Oh bless.

934
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:40.320
I love Mrs. Moore.

935
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:43.739
Well, you know what?

936
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:48.780
I think possibly after this story, Joe saw how brave Captain Mike

937
00:37:48.780 --> 00:37:51.840
Yates was, and we see her agree to go on a date with him at the

938
00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:54.059
beginning of The Curse of Peladin.

939
00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:55.619
Well, what could possibly go wrong?

940
00:38:02.099 --> 00:38:05.519
I don't think they're going on a date, and she's certainly not

941
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:09.119
dressed as if she's going to share a comedy beer if she does.

942
00:38:09.179 --> 00:38:10.320
She is a comedy beard.

943
00:38:10.380 --> 00:38:14.159
She, um, she's, you know, taking out to the clubs and she's

944
00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:17.280
wearing something, you know, a bit fabulous, but a little bit

945
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:19.920
frumpy because she doesn't want to attract attention away from

946
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:24.059
Mike, who's obviously the main, the main attraction here.

947
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:25.380
Good beating for each other.

948
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:26.519
Yeah, I think so.

949
00:38:26.579 --> 00:38:28.199
I think that's clearly what's happening.

950
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:30.780
It's a very, very strange opening.

951
00:38:31.500 --> 00:38:32.639
I see he was just doing her hair.

952
00:38:32.699 --> 00:38:34.559
Have you seen all the publicity shots for this?

953
00:38:34.619 --> 00:38:38.159
Every single publicity shot that was done before the final shoot

954
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:41.159
Katie had forgotten to remove one of the rollers from her hair.

955
00:38:41.219 --> 00:38:43.860
She's got a big pink roll.

956
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:46.440
I mean, well, I think Mike was just in such a hurry. forgot to

957
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:48.780
finish. forgot to...

958
00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:50.400
But he only gets mentioned.

959
00:38:50.460 --> 00:38:51.480
We don't actually see him.

960
00:38:51.539 --> 00:38:55.500
And this is kind of important because it's tiresome at this time.

961
00:38:55.559 --> 00:38:57.420
He's getting pretty tiresome.

962
00:38:57.480 --> 00:38:58.500
No, nonsense.

963
00:38:58.559 --> 00:39:02.579
This story actually has like an opening that doesn't involve the

964
00:39:02.579 --> 00:39:07.079
regular cast and it's it's set on an alien planet, a sort of

965
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:10.260
strange mediaeval planet where, you know, an argument is taking

966
00:39:10.260 --> 00:39:11.519
place in a throne room.

967
00:39:11.579 --> 00:39:15.059
And it is something that we really haven't had for a very, very

968
00:39:15.059 --> 00:39:15.539
long time.

969
00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:17.159
It's the 1st story.

970
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:20.820
It's the 1st story of John Pert, not to feature Nicholas

971
00:39:20.820 --> 00:39:21.239
Courtney.

972
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:21.960
Yeah.

973
00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:22.500
Very important.

974
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:23.400
That's interesting.

975
00:39:23.460 --> 00:39:26.699
Even in colleague in space, you know, he was there to help the

976
00:39:26.699 --> 00:39:29.940
setup and for a moment we believe went, it's all going to be on

977
00:39:29.940 --> 00:39:31.199
earth and then suddenly we're in space.

978
00:39:31.260 --> 00:39:34.139
This time it's just no, it's traditional Doctor Who, we're in the

979
00:39:34.139 --> 00:39:35.340
Tartars and we're about to land somewhere.

980
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:38.579
Yeah, there's not even a scene on Earth at all at the beginning.

981
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:41.280
And the doctor claims to have fixed the Tatus, doesn't he?

982
00:39:41.340 --> 00:39:43.320
He claims that it's a test flight.

983
00:39:43.380 --> 00:39:46.500
So this argument in the throne room is kind of the big thematic

984
00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:50.039
argument, and it's between the high priest and the chancellor, and

985
00:39:50.039 --> 00:39:54.360
it's the lovely lisping David Trouton, is king of Paladon, and

986
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:57.900
these are his 2 sort of beloved advisors, and they're arguing

987
00:39:57.900 --> 00:40:02.340
about joining the European economic community.

988
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:03.539
You know, everyone...

989
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:05.099
I believe, join Eurovision.

990
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:09.119
You know, I actually think I actually think that people overplay

991
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:12.420
the European economic community thing, and I don't think it really

992
00:40:12.420 --> 00:40:15.599
works as an allegory because Peladon is this sort of primitive

993
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:16.800
culture.

994
00:40:16.860 --> 00:40:17.699
Do you know what I mean?

995
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:20.400
And they're all sort of technologically advanced and stuff.

996
00:40:20.460 --> 00:40:23.579
But I think that there is something about progress, and I think

997
00:40:23.579 --> 00:40:26.460
it's important, sort of in the pertwi era.

998
00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:30.360
Unit belongs to the United Nations, which is a big sort of

999
00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:31.980
supernational organisation.

1000
00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:35.159
Both mind of evil and day of the Daleks present international

1001
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:39.539
diplomacy as a sort of progressive thing as a way of avoiding war

1002
00:40:39.539 --> 00:40:41.159
as a way of making the world better.

1003
00:40:41.219 --> 00:40:46.139
And in claws of Axos, Britain misbehaves by keeping Axonide for

1004
00:40:46.139 --> 00:40:47.099
itself. you know.

1005
00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:51.599
So the perjury era has this idea that forging alliances and things

1006
00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:53.099
is a good thing in itself.

1007
00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:54.840
And so this is what we see happening here.

1008
00:40:54.900 --> 00:40:58.139
You've got 2 stories in a row that are actually looking at current

1009
00:40:58.139 --> 00:40:58.980
political events.

1010
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:01.619
That hasn't happened, I don't think, ever before in Doctor Who has

1011
00:41:01.619 --> 00:41:01.860
it.

1012
00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:05.340
The savages touched on it, but you've not seen stories that are

1013
00:41:05.340 --> 00:41:09.360
trying to be quite so contemporary as this season has been.

1014
00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:11.760
This one, you know, you touched on it before.

1015
00:41:11.820 --> 00:41:14.639
Britain was trying again to join the EU.

1016
00:41:14.699 --> 00:41:18.480
The reason it had taken so long is that De Gaul, apparently

1017
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:22.380
because of simply because of Dunkirk and feeling that Britain had

1018
00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:26.760
let them down so terribly in the war, opposed Britain joining the

1019
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:27.539
EUC.

1020
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:31.860
And it was only after his passing that finally jumped in very

1021
00:41:31.860 --> 00:41:34.019
quickly and had a very short window in which to do it.

1022
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:37.500
So, really, you're just, you're seeing on TV all the delegates in

1023
00:41:37.500 --> 00:41:41.159
grapery getting together in capes because apparently you're not a

1024
00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:43.739
delegate, unless you're wearing a high collar, even if you're

1025
00:41:43.739 --> 00:41:47.760
trundling around in a front loader, you know, with suds effects

1026
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:49.800
you've still got to have a collar on the back of it.

1027
00:41:49.860 --> 00:41:50.460
And you have to be green.

1028
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:51.960
They're actually all green.

1029
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:53.099
Well, actually, yeah.

1030
00:41:53.159 --> 00:41:55.980
And again, I think the best, yeah, the best thing about this story

1031
00:41:55.980 --> 00:41:58.199
if you want to look at it, because when you analyse it and what's

1032
00:41:58.199 --> 00:42:01.079
actually working, it's not much, but the whole thing works

1033
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:01.559
together.

1034
00:42:01.619 --> 00:42:04.679
I think the costumes and the designs are gorgeous.

1035
00:42:04.739 --> 00:42:05.940
They really get that right.

1036
00:42:06.059 --> 00:42:09.360
And the lighting is lovely and the sets really work.

1037
00:42:09.420 --> 00:42:12.000
Well, for instance, the Peladonians are all different shades of

1038
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:13.079
heliotrope.

1039
00:42:13.139 --> 00:42:14.760
Different shades of purple.

1040
00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:15.840
And the delicates are...

1041
00:42:15.900 --> 00:42:17.039
I thought they were all Cadbury purple.

1042
00:42:17.099 --> 00:42:17.699
They are.

1043
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:18.960
Oh, don't say that.

1044
00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:19.559
We get soon.

1045
00:42:20.099 --> 00:42:22.619
We've already mentioned George Brandon.

1046
00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:25.739
They melt in your, they melt in your hand, not in your mouth or

1047
00:42:25.739 --> 00:42:26.340
something like that.

1048
00:42:26.460 --> 00:42:27.780
Lovely agador.

1049
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:28.980
We haven't even touched on him yet.

1050
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:32.219
Look, we haven't really said what this story is because if you're

1051
00:42:32.219 --> 00:42:33.659
listening to this, you probably know.

1052
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:37.320
And it's meant to be a hound of the basketballs thing.

1053
00:42:37.380 --> 00:42:39.119
You see a lot of fans say, I don't even see that.

1054
00:42:39.179 --> 00:42:41.699
It's just other than it's got a teddy bear that's disappeared for

1055
00:42:41.699 --> 00:42:42.420
a long time and comes back.

1056
00:42:42.539 --> 00:42:46.920
I think one of the bigger influences is Star Trek's Journey to Bay

1057
00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:50.699
which went out about a year before the script was written 2 years

1058
00:42:50.699 --> 00:42:53.699
before broadcast and it has a very similar thing.

1059
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:56.880
It's a bunch of cultures actually on their way to a conference

1060
00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:58.920
when there is a murder.

1061
00:42:59.099 --> 00:43:03.300
It's all it all dates back to Conan Doyle and Agatha Christie, of

1062
00:43:03.300 --> 00:43:07.500
course, but Journey to Babel sort of has that element, the

1063
00:43:07.500 --> 00:43:07.920
strongest.

1064
00:43:07.980 --> 00:43:10.079
It doesn't have the mysticism element, which is what this has in

1065
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:10.619
actor.

1066
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:13.679
You'd think it would, but there's one caveat.

1067
00:43:13.739 --> 00:43:16.019
There's one thing that makes me say it's actually nothing to do

1068
00:43:16.019 --> 00:43:16.440
with.

1069
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:18.840
It just superficially looks like it's the trek thing.

1070
00:43:18.900 --> 00:43:21.539
Actually, there's a lot more to do with, okay, if we want to go

1071
00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:22.500
back to antecedents.

1072
00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:24.659
This is really Ursula Le Guin's Ecumen stories.

1073
00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:26.639
Did you read those when you were a tiny, tiny person?

1074
00:43:26.699 --> 00:43:27.780
read a few of them.

1075
00:43:27.900 --> 00:43:33.480
You know, the long separated non-humanoid races that reestablish.

1076
00:43:33.539 --> 00:43:36.900
Well, Gethen in those books is Alpha Centauri with an unfixed

1077
00:43:36.900 --> 00:43:38.579
gender, but just a lot more convincing.

1078
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:42.659
That's not hard We'll get on to what lovely Lenny Maine.

1079
00:43:42.719 --> 00:43:44.219
You know who was actually credited at one point?

1080
00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:46.980
It was a joke and it almost went out, that the director of this

1081
00:43:46.980 --> 00:43:51.599
story, the Australian ex-donceur, that became a director, was

1082
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:54.420
actually billed as lovely Lenny Maine director.

1083
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:56.219
And someone said, get that off that car.

1084
00:43:57.480 --> 00:43:59.039
That's true.

1085
00:43:59.039 --> 00:43:59.699
He was Australian.

1086
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:03.119
He was Australian and had a very fruity vocabulary, which we may

1087
00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:07.019
well touch on. especially when it comes to Alpha Centauri.

1088
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:09.480
This story actually comes about, I think, again, with the

1089
00:44:09.480 --> 00:44:12.059
political stuff that was happening with Britain and the end of

1090
00:44:12.059 --> 00:44:12.539
Empire.

1091
00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:15.840
If touch on mining corporations, which is really, you know, what

1092
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:17.579
this story seems to be about minerals.

1093
00:44:17.639 --> 00:44:20.760
Mining corporations as then as now, had influence at the

1094
00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:23.940
diplomatic level, and we're pushing treaties, giving them partial

1095
00:44:23.940 --> 00:44:27.119
ownership of countries themselves, in South America, and in

1096
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:27.659
Africa.

1097
00:44:27.659 --> 00:44:31.139
And Britain, just as in every Bond film over the last 10 years, was

1098
00:44:31.139 --> 00:44:34.920
the moralising adjudicator, you know, who offered aid whilst

1099
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:38.219
shoring up its own banks, with loans that would take generations

1100
00:44:38.219 --> 00:44:40.380
for these countries to pay back.

1101
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:43.739
Now, if you look at how the federation is operating here.

1102
00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:46.260
I don't think the Star Trek Federation would have ever had

1103
00:44:46.260 --> 00:44:48.659
battleships supplying around going, well, you know, if this

1104
00:44:48.659 --> 00:44:49.800
doesn't work out, we're going to blow them.

1105
00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:52.980
No, no, the buggerries out of your purple shorts.

1106
00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:53.579
No.

1107
00:44:53.639 --> 00:44:54.780
No.

1108
00:44:54.840 --> 00:44:57.900
So on the surface, it definitely feels tricked, but I actually

1109
00:44:57.900 --> 00:45:00.840
think it's much more insidious and darker in English than Trek

1110
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:01.679
ever gone into.

1111
00:45:01.739 --> 00:45:04.860
And I think Jody Tobabel is probably the best Trek story of the

1112
00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:05.340
original series.

1113
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:08.519
And similarly, I think this is Brian Hale's best script for the

1114
00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:08.699
show.

1115
00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:10.139
And he's really good, isn't he?

1116
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:11.460
Yeah, he's great.

1117
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:12.900
I love what he's done with the Ice Warriors.

1118
00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:14.340
Spangly now.

1119
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:15.360
They have Spangler capes.

1120
00:45:15.420 --> 00:45:18.179
I actually was actually thinking they're not quite as Spangly as

1121
00:45:18.179 --> 00:45:18.780
they used to be.

1122
00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:20.639
No, they've got a new Spangley tuck cape, apparently.

1123
00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:21.900
Well, you remember the Marshall?

1124
00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:22.980
Seeds of Death.

1125
00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:25.139
Well, no one...

1126
00:45:25.860 --> 00:45:28.079
Deal listener, this is actually the day after the Mardi Gras

1127
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:29.940
parade, and I was in that, and there were quite a few grand

1128
00:45:29.940 --> 00:45:32.039
marshals, judging by the amount of glitter.

1129
00:45:32.099 --> 00:45:33.659
I still have glitter on me.

1130
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:36.000
And the other listener, I didn't wear glitter, nor did I hug

1131
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:37.320
anyone wearing glitter.

1132
00:45:37.380 --> 00:45:37.980
No, that's right.

1133
00:45:37.980 --> 00:45:38.820
God knows how it happens.

1134
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:41.099
The ice warriors in this.

1135
00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:45.659
The people have talked about it being humanising the ice

1136
00:45:45.659 --> 00:45:46.260
warriors.

1137
00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:47.159
Well, quite frankly, though.

1138
00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:49.199
That's a racist term, isn't it, really?

1139
00:45:49.260 --> 00:45:51.059
I think that's quite racist.

1140
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:55.260
Mainly because our human influences in this story are Joe and the

1141
00:45:55.260 --> 00:45:55.619
doctor.

1142
00:45:55.619 --> 00:45:57.360
Amazonia.

1143
00:45:57.360 --> 00:45:59.579
And Amazonia further down the line.

1144
00:46:00.659 --> 00:46:04.199
The chairman delegate from Earth, Nathan is looking very

1145
00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:04.619
confused.

1146
00:46:04.679 --> 00:46:05.760
She's billed as Amazonia.

1147
00:46:05.820 --> 00:46:06.659
Oh, is she?

1148
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:07.440
I love her.

1149
00:46:07.500 --> 00:46:08.579
Oh, can we talk about her later?

1150
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:09.059
Yeah.

1151
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:10.199
That means she's from the Amazon.

1152
00:46:10.260 --> 00:46:12.059
Did you notice everyone's called from the country?

1153
00:46:12.059 --> 00:46:13.860
so it's Arcturus.

1154
00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:17.099
So the doctor should really be called Earth, Soul.

1155
00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:17.880
Soul.

1156
00:46:17.940 --> 00:46:19.860
But because the doctor doesn't trust.

1157
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:21.059
The Ice Warriors.

1158
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:23.039
Joe immediately doesn't trust the ice Warrior.

1159
00:46:23.099 --> 00:46:26.400
So I, you know, I would say the racism here is coming from the

1160
00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:28.739
human element, which ties in with the colonial theme.

1161
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:33.900
But it's wonderful how the doctor then, when he realises he's been

1162
00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:34.920
wrong about the ice war is.

1163
00:46:34.980 --> 00:46:36.300
He doesn't attempt to justify himself.

1164
00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:37.860
He just says, look, you know, I was wrong.

1165
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:41.099
I was wrong because of my past experience and I'm sorry about

1166
00:46:41.099 --> 00:46:41.219
that.

1167
00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:43.679
Joe's actually a little bit sceptical of him.

1168
00:46:43.739 --> 00:46:48.179
She eventually sort of follows on and she finds Arcturus's thing

1169
00:46:48.179 --> 00:46:51.239
in... she gives them the benefit of the doubt first.

1170
00:46:51.300 --> 00:46:54.480
Yeah, she does call the doctor a little bit on his prejudice, but

1171
00:46:54.480 --> 00:46:57.239
look, I think the ice Warriors are great and it is a great thing

1172
00:46:57.239 --> 00:46:59.219
to turn them from villains into heroes.

1173
00:46:59.340 --> 00:47:01.739
But gosh, those costumes are awful.

1174
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:04.139
I mean, they really, really just look terrible.

1175
00:47:04.260 --> 00:47:05.280
Oh, they do.

1176
00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:06.179
I swore it was all weird.

1177
00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:07.739
Yes, the ice Warriors are terrible.

1178
00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:09.900
They are bits and pieces left over, you know?

1179
00:47:10.019 --> 00:47:12.840
They were a bit of a. they look worse in colour than they do in

1180
00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:13.440
black and white.

1181
00:47:13.500 --> 00:47:14.880
No, that's possible.

1182
00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:18.119
Black and white hides a multitude of things.

1183
00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:19.679
Are you saying that the costumes aren't convincing?

1184
00:47:19.739 --> 00:47:21.420
Have we touched on Alpha Centaur yet?

1185
00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:22.559
Well, that would be rude.

1186
00:47:22.619 --> 00:47:24.539
This is not...

1187
00:47:24.539 --> 00:47:26.219
You know, the director is not consented.

1188
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:30.239
If we haven't seen if the listener hadn't seen Alpha Centauri, how

1189
00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:30.900
would you describe?

1190
00:47:31.019 --> 00:47:35.159
Well, look at being giant green penis in a shower curtain

1191
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:37.800
hexodecimal hexapods, shooter pod waving.

1192
00:47:37.860 --> 00:47:38.699
It's got 6...

1193
00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:42.179
It's got a big round head with an iris and...

1194
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:43.260
Yes, yes.

1195
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:45.239
And it's green, which you wouldn't have read in colour, so it

1196
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:46.199
would actually have been even ruder.

1197
00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:49.320
It turned up, and Lenny Maine said, and I'll say this very

1198
00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:49.860
carefully.

1199
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:54.539
It looks like an effing prick, is it?

1200
00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:56.460
But with an Australian accent.

1201
00:47:56.519 --> 00:47:57.360
That was like an acting prick.

1202
00:47:57.420 --> 00:47:59.099
He said, get rid of it. do something with it.

1203
00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:00.480
We don't have Australian accent.

1204
00:48:00.539 --> 00:48:01.139
No, we don't.

1205
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:01.679
No, we don't.

1206
00:48:01.739 --> 00:48:03.360
We're very not very convincing.

1207
00:48:03.420 --> 00:48:07.139
So they took it away and put literally a shower curtain around

1208
00:48:07.139 --> 00:48:07.320
it.

1209
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:09.719
He said, now it looks like an effing prick in a cave.

1210
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:13.440
But it's not as good as what he said about Aguador.

1211
00:48:13.500 --> 00:48:16.679
He was really annoyed with how English all the extras and the

1212
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:19.260
actors were being when Agador finally makes his appearance in the

1213
00:48:19.260 --> 00:48:19.679
throne room.

1214
00:48:19.739 --> 00:48:23.579
Not terribly. looks quite convincing in the half lit tunnels shot

1215
00:48:23.579 --> 00:48:24.059
from below.

1216
00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:26.639
But I'm sorry, it's a bloke in a teddy bear suit when he comes

1217
00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:26.940
out.

1218
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:28.079
Oh, it's Nick Hobbs.

1219
00:48:28.139 --> 00:48:29.219
Nick Hobbs is gorgeous.

1220
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:32.639
We saw him in Claws of Axos. as the unit driver hypnotised by the

1221
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:32.880
master.

1222
00:48:32.940 --> 00:48:33.719
He's quite gorgeous.

1223
00:48:33.780 --> 00:48:35.639
But anyway, care fluffy out there, right?

1224
00:48:35.699 --> 00:48:37.500
Well, only you would know that watching it.

1225
00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:40.139
So the folk at home are just sitting there thinking, oh, it's a

1226
00:48:40.139 --> 00:48:42.059
lovely teddy bear and everyone goes, yes, it's a teddy bear.

1227
00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:46.440
Anyway, the story goes, Lenny Maine says sort of classic.

1228
00:48:46.500 --> 00:48:50.699
Look at this thing, like you go to all say, holy freaking cow.

1229
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:53.639
And of course, there was a troop during the camera rehearsal troop

1230
00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:56.159
of Boy Scouts being led around by their vicar.

1231
00:48:56.219 --> 00:49:00.599
So, of course, at that point, Agedor comes in in the entire cast

1232
00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:05.099
in unison calls out, holy freaking cow, in a foam, for Australian

1233
00:49:05.099 --> 00:49:07.679
accents, for the scout boys all burst into laugh.

1234
00:49:07.739 --> 00:49:09.840
You don't need to go to conventions.

1235
00:49:09.900 --> 00:49:11.039
You can hear it all in the year.

1236
00:49:11.099 --> 00:49:14.159
You'd think, though, by this point that Vickers would just know to

1237
00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:17.340
avoid the Doctor Who set or indeed. hanging around with young

1238
00:49:17.340 --> 00:49:20.460
scouts, considering later eventualities.

1239
00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:21.119
Yes, sadly.

1240
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:24.539
Can I talk pertween?

1241
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:25.500
I think we have to.

1242
00:49:25.559 --> 00:49:26.400
I think we have to.

1243
00:49:26.519 --> 00:49:29.820
Yeah, it's, it's kind of, it's kind of... a bit into pert we

1244
00:49:29.820 --> 00:49:30.059
watch.

1245
00:49:30.179 --> 00:49:31.079
We don't necessarily.

1246
00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:32.400
I just love that hair.

1247
00:49:32.460 --> 00:49:36.360
This is the 1st time when he does a truly convincing B. Arthur for

1248
00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:37.139
the entire...

1249
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:38.639
No, seriously, the entire performance.

1250
00:49:38.699 --> 00:49:41.340
There are moments when I have to squint to be sure it's not per

1251
00:49:41.340 --> 00:49:41.760
week.

1252
00:49:41.820 --> 00:49:45.059
He does have to strap on his fighting wig.

1253
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:46.800
Yes, oh, here we are.

1254
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:48.000
And notice to attack.

1255
00:49:48.059 --> 00:49:50.880
Yeah, in order to make Grant because he's fairly obviously played

1256
00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:55.920
by Terry Walsh during that scene at the end of episode three, I

1257
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:59.219
want to say, when, you know, he's fighting the King's champion.

1258
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:01.019
Gron is a member of Habik, you knew.

1259
00:50:01.019 --> 00:50:01.619
Oh, is he?

1260
00:50:02.219 --> 00:50:03.360
Yeah, scored some Claire, yes.

1261
00:50:03.420 --> 00:50:03.659
Yes.

1262
00:50:03.719 --> 00:50:07.199
Yeah, I think I saw some of him last night at Mardi Gras.

1263
00:50:07.260 --> 00:50:08.519
And he's an arranger.

1264
00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:11.340
And it's time to Ranger as well, in his own right.

1265
00:50:11.400 --> 00:50:12.719
Yes, Ian Terry.

1266
00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:15.059
Why does he had his tongue cut out or something?

1267
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:16.860
Oh, because...

1268
00:50:16.860 --> 00:50:19.079
Well, because just be grateful he's not black.

1269
00:50:19.139 --> 00:50:20.340
Yeah that's true.

1270
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:22.199
It's usually what they have to be, isn't it?

1271
00:50:22.500 --> 00:50:28.860
And we do we do have another situation in this story where Joe

1272
00:50:28.860 --> 00:50:31.440
doesn't really get to meet any strong women.

1273
00:50:31.500 --> 00:50:33.239
Oh, I don't know.

1274
00:50:33.239 --> 00:50:34.440
Since Pellet, I think.

1275
00:50:35.340 --> 00:50:39.300
Yeah, Rod did comment that although he enjoyed the story, he gave

1276
00:50:39.300 --> 00:50:39.900
it 8 out of 10.

1277
00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:43.739
He doesn't really understand Peladin's marriage proposal because

1278
00:50:43.739 --> 00:50:44.760
he's clearly gay.

1279
00:50:44.820 --> 00:50:46.260
So why is he proposing to Joe?

1280
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:48.119
That's the same reason Mike Yates is.

1281
00:50:48.179 --> 00:50:48.480
Thank you.

1282
00:50:48.539 --> 00:50:52.260
I think that was artfully set up in the opening scene for us all

1283
00:50:52.260 --> 00:50:52.860
to go.

1284
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:53.280
Ah, yes.

1285
00:50:53.340 --> 00:50:55.199
Instead of cunning parallel.

1286
00:50:55.260 --> 00:50:58.619
Well, it was difficult in the 70s for young men with, you know

1287
00:50:58.619 --> 00:51:00.539
raspberry ripple hairdos too.

1288
00:51:00.539 --> 00:51:01.739
Convincing.

1289
00:51:01.739 --> 00:51:03.480
In those shorts.

1290
00:51:03.539 --> 00:51:04.860
Have you mentioned the disco shorts?

1291
00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:06.179
And the go-go there?

1292
00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:10.440
She's taking fashion advice from Altos from...

1293
00:51:10.440 --> 00:51:11.639
She's got the legs for it, though.

1294
00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:13.980
From the keys of Mariners.

1295
00:51:14.039 --> 00:51:16.320
Yes, one of my favourite stories.

1296
00:51:16.380 --> 00:51:17.699
I totally blank.

1297
00:51:17.699 --> 00:51:18.780
Second only to the massacre.

1298
00:51:18.840 --> 00:51:19.380
Yeah.

1299
00:51:19.380 --> 00:51:20.460
Which is still good.

1300
00:51:20.519 --> 00:51:22.380
Yes, I was watched a bit of it this week.

1301
00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:23.400
Right.

1302
00:51:23.460 --> 00:51:26.400
Peter Purvis says it was the best story he did, the massacre.

1303
00:51:26.460 --> 00:51:30.780
Then again, he said it was the most intelligent script and it was

1304
00:51:30.780 --> 00:51:33.960
it was really done for adults and I think that, you know, if

1305
00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:37.139
you're not getting it, you're probably looking at Doctor Who for

1306
00:51:37.139 --> 00:51:37.980
the wrong reasons.

1307
00:51:38.099 --> 00:51:40.559
I'm really fond of Peter Purpose.

1308
00:51:40.619 --> 00:51:42.360
Is that the one with the terraleptol in it?

1309
00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:46.320
I don't think that's the one that's not a nice way to talk about

1310
00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:47.579
hastily along.

1311
00:51:47.699 --> 00:51:49.559
And chaplet.

1312
00:51:49.739 --> 00:51:54.599
That being said, you know, I think the relationship between

1313
00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:58.139
Peladon and Joe is very sweet. is touching, isn't it?

1314
00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:01.679
Mainly because of how Katie Manning plays it because this is the

1315
00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:07.559
1st time and since Joe arrived on the show where Joe has had Joe

1316
00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:10.380
has met anyone who inspires her as much as the doctor does.

1317
00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:15.300
You know, it's very clear early on last season that Joe thinks the

1318
00:52:15.300 --> 00:52:16.079
world of the doctor.

1319
00:52:16.139 --> 00:52:19.860
At the end of last season, she is ready to sacrifice herself for

1320
00:52:19.860 --> 00:52:21.179
him.

1321
00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:23.219
You're saying she's a bit upwardly mobile?

1322
00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:26.400
No, no, she only goes for talk.

1323
00:52:26.460 --> 00:52:27.480
Ooh, a king.

1324
00:52:27.539 --> 00:52:28.860
No, no, no.

1325
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:32.039
I suppose I suppose it could be construed that way.

1326
00:52:32.099 --> 00:52:33.599
Essex, isn't she?

1327
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:38.219
I think Katie plays the conflict very well of choosing between her

1328
00:52:38.219 --> 00:52:42.239
life with the doctor and possibly a life with peladin.

1329
00:52:42.300 --> 00:52:44.880
And I don't think the royalty appeals because really, you know

1330
00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:48.300
peladin is an asset rich planet, but it's not a socially rich

1331
00:52:48.300 --> 00:52:48.659
planet.

1332
00:52:48.719 --> 00:52:52.079
Well, he wouldn't want to live in a big fisher price rock face

1333
00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:54.960
with, you know, stuffed turdy bear.

1334
00:52:55.019 --> 00:52:57.659
I think I had the toy version of that in Castle Greyskull as a

1335
00:52:57.659 --> 00:52:57.840
child.

1336
00:52:58.139 --> 00:53:00.420
West Castle Gray, Scott, was it?

1337
00:53:00.420 --> 00:53:01.739
It's pretty much Castle Gray, Scott.

1338
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:03.780
But a lot of the same cast.

1339
00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:08.880
But that final scene is beautiful and it does begin to set up an

1340
00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:11.400
element of Joe's character in that, you know, she is a young

1341
00:53:11.400 --> 00:53:11.699
woman.

1342
00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:17.099
And I think it's possibly the 1st time where a companion character

1343
00:53:17.099 --> 00:53:22.320
is allowed to have these romantic feelings without just being

1344
00:53:22.320 --> 00:53:24.000
kicked out of a TARDIS, Susan.

1345
00:53:24.059 --> 00:53:27.719
She gets free. and she leaves with the 3rd one.

1346
00:53:27.780 --> 00:53:30.539
But she gets petal or whatever his name is, last name.

1347
00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:31.139
Lartep.

1348
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:32.519
It's petal backwards.

1349
00:53:32.579 --> 00:53:36.480
Um, from, uh, Planet of the Daleks.

1350
00:53:36.539 --> 00:53:37.800
And then later, of course, some.

1351
00:53:38.099 --> 00:53:38.760
Professor Jones.

1352
00:53:38.820 --> 00:53:40.139
Lovely Professor Jones.

1353
00:53:40.199 --> 00:53:41.280
Long hair.

1354
00:53:41.340 --> 00:53:43.980
I inherited that from the family, obviously.

1355
00:53:44.039 --> 00:53:45.900
Sight gag, it was not.

1356
00:53:46.019 --> 00:53:50.400
But no, I think that, especially that final scene where she is

1357
00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:54.659
genuinely torn and would be devastated with either choice, but she

1358
00:53:54.659 --> 00:53:58.739
has to make one and also pert with his portrayal of his reaction

1359
00:53:58.739 --> 00:54:02.820
that he would be devastated as well, but he wouldn't try to stop

1360
00:54:02.820 --> 00:54:03.059
her.

1361
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:04.079
He's very sweet.

1362
00:54:04.139 --> 00:54:05.219
I think in that sweet.

1363
00:54:05.219 --> 00:54:06.000
It's very sweet.

1364
00:54:06.059 --> 00:54:08.159
And then, of course, they have to make their comedy escape.

1365
00:54:08.219 --> 00:54:11.699
But they don't forget they're acting emotionally when they realise

1366
00:54:11.699 --> 00:54:12.840
they have to get out of there.

1367
00:54:12.900 --> 00:54:16.079
Like Joe's voice is still breaking slightly when she's joking

1368
00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:17.400
about going to see the coronation.

1369
00:54:17.460 --> 00:54:22.380
We haven't seen an evolution of a relationship like this since I

1370
00:54:22.380 --> 00:54:23.519
think the doctor and Barbara.

1371
00:54:23.579 --> 00:54:26.820
I don't know that it's being done in the writing.

1372
00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:27.539
Do you know what I mean?

1373
00:54:27.659 --> 00:54:29.519
or particularly the production?

1374
00:54:29.579 --> 00:54:33.360
But I think it is just an artefact of John and Casey warming

1375
00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:36.059
towards each other and enjoying working together.

1376
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:39.960
And I think too, that the doctor is being allowed to relax a

1377
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:43.679
little bit and be a little bit more silly.

1378
00:54:43.739 --> 00:54:46.320
So he gets some comedy moments here.

1379
00:54:46.380 --> 00:54:47.400
Do you know what I mean?

1380
00:54:47.460 --> 00:54:51.360
He's got this rotating mirror that he's going to hypnotise Agatore

1381
00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:51.599
with.

1382
00:54:51.659 --> 00:54:54.960
He looks at it and nearly hypnotise himself and has to sort of

1383
00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:55.500
shake it off.

1384
00:54:55.559 --> 00:55:00.059
And he sings Twankador and it's sort of terribly funny and like he

1385
00:55:00.059 --> 00:55:03.480
hypnotises Joe by mistake with it later and all of that sort of

1386
00:55:03.480 --> 00:55:03.719
thing.

1387
00:55:03.780 --> 00:55:07.260
And he's starting to be allowed to do funny doctor-ish things

1388
00:55:07.260 --> 00:55:07.559
again.

1389
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:12.119
We were talking a little bit about the poetry from our childhood.

1390
00:55:12.179 --> 00:55:13.619
Were you saying that, Brendan?

1391
00:55:13.679 --> 00:55:16.079
This is starting to be the per tweet from my childhood.

1392
00:55:16.139 --> 00:55:19.320
Yeah, this is this is the part we that people remember because

1393
00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:22.079
when I talk to people who aren't Doctor Who fans, about Doctor

1394
00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:22.500
Who.

1395
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:25.980
Half of them remember Tom and he's their doctor and half of them

1396
00:55:25.980 --> 00:55:27.360
remember John and he's their doctor.

1397
00:55:27.420 --> 00:55:31.679
And the people who remember John remember the funny side and they

1398
00:55:31.679 --> 00:55:34.980
remember, oh, that, you know, that one with the teddy bear in the

1399
00:55:34.980 --> 00:55:35.340
caves.

1400
00:55:35.400 --> 00:55:37.019
Yeah, for instance.

1401
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:39.900
And he's like, he treats Agador like a dog.

1402
00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:40.739
Do you know what I mean?

1403
00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:42.179
Like in a kind of sweet way.

1404
00:55:42.239 --> 00:55:43.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1405
00:55:43.559 --> 00:55:43.920
Yeah.

1406
00:55:43.980 --> 00:55:48.539
Yeah. terrific if we'd actually got to keep Agador as an early K

1407
00:55:47.820 --> 00:55:48.539
not.

1408
00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:50.039
That would have been something, wouldn it?

1409
00:55:50.159 --> 00:55:53.039
He would have livened up the mutants enormously.

1410
00:55:53.099 --> 00:55:53.579
Oh, God.

1411
00:55:53.579 --> 00:55:55.380
The mutants coming up.

1412
00:55:55.559 --> 00:56:02.340
He's not just the pompous, obnoxious Tory bastard.

1413
00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:04.199
Oh, that's hard. in season seven.

1414
00:56:04.260 --> 00:56:06.059
Yeah, that is harsh.

1415
00:56:06.179 --> 00:56:09.960
This is what he was like all last month without your influence

1416
00:56:09.960 --> 00:56:10.440
Richard.

1417
00:56:10.500 --> 00:56:13.920
But now, you know, like I'm really warming to him enormously.

1418
00:56:14.219 --> 00:56:16.320
Doctor is Patrician.

1419
00:56:16.380 --> 00:56:19.260
I do like that line that Danny plays to Capaldi.

1420
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:22.860
Oh, you're a lord, of course you are, even with the, even with the

1421
00:56:22.860 --> 00:56:25.679
Glaswegian docs brine that you're throwing over it.

1422
00:56:25.800 --> 00:56:28.920
I can really hear you, you really are very lordly, and I really

1423
00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:29.519
like that moment.

1424
00:56:29.699 --> 00:56:33.719
Moffat has picked up on, the doctor is Patrician.

1425
00:56:33.780 --> 00:56:36.960
No matter how much he may try to deny it, which I think is why I

1426
00:56:36.960 --> 00:56:41.699
found the 10th doctor, slightly grating, and he's the love that

1427
00:56:41.699 --> 00:56:45.900
they picked up on it, the Dick Van Dyke, sensibility, copy accent

1428
00:56:45.900 --> 00:56:47.219
because it always felt a bit phoney.

1429
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:50.099
And you could see Tenet have moments of tenet have moments of real

1430
00:56:50.099 --> 00:56:53.519
obnoxious patricianism in a way that the only one that really

1431
00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:55.380
wasn't was Eccleston.

1432
00:56:55.440 --> 00:56:59.639
It is that thing where the doctor comes in to solve your problems

1433
00:56:59.639 --> 00:57:02.400
from a position of kind of superior knowledge.

1434
00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:05.159
Are you saying pissing from a great height?

1435
00:57:05.219 --> 00:57:06.480
Something like that.

1436
00:57:06.539 --> 00:57:07.019
Yeah.

1437
00:57:07.019 --> 00:57:07.320
Yeah.

1438
00:57:07.380 --> 00:57:09.239
And I think that's unavoidable in the character.

1439
00:57:09.300 --> 00:57:13.199
And the show critiques that and perhaps particularly under Moffatt

1440
00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:14.699
but the show does critique that a bit.

1441
00:57:14.820 --> 00:57:18.000
It's not until he actually does lose everything.

1442
00:57:18.059 --> 00:57:19.079
This is the pet.

1443
00:57:19.139 --> 00:57:22.920
This is a petulant teen adolescent doctor, really, if you look at

1444
00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:26.579
his overall lifespan. commented on later, that he's had his toys

1445
00:57:26.579 --> 00:57:27.119
taken away.

1446
00:57:27.179 --> 00:57:28.260
He's lost his flying ball.

1447
00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:28.980
He's been grounded.

1448
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:31.739
He's going to be here. been grounded sent to his room with a whole

1449
00:57:31.739 --> 00:57:33.659
lot of friends he's got to make for himself that aren't on his

1450
00:57:33.659 --> 00:57:37.739
level. and okay, he's doing quite well considering. and they'll

1451
00:57:37.739 --> 00:57:40.800
send his best worstie bestie worstie enemy from school.

1452
00:57:40.860 --> 00:57:43.559
Can you imagine what brittle little queens they could have both

1453
00:57:43.559 --> 00:57:47.940
been in the pride on Academy playground, just absizing everybody

1454
00:57:47.940 --> 00:57:50.760
else up, sitting on the sidelines, not playing sport and just

1455
00:57:50.760 --> 00:57:52.079
bitching about everybody else.

1456
00:57:52.139 --> 00:57:55.440
That's right. creating time flow analogues and wrecking everyone's

1457
00:57:55.440 --> 00:57:55.800
homework.

1458
00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:56.820
Exactly.

1459
00:57:57.239 --> 00:58:02.400
On a side note, Russell T. Davis was actually approached by the

1460
00:58:02.400 --> 00:58:05.639
BBC to make a series about a teenage doctor.

1461
00:58:05.880 --> 00:58:07.380
Whoa.

1462
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:08.820
Oh, Golly Wally.

1463
00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:09.840
When was this?

1464
00:58:09.900 --> 00:58:11.039
After his...

1465
00:58:11.099 --> 00:58:14.039
This was during the, this was um, when it was really big.

1466
00:58:14.099 --> 00:58:16.440
I think during the production of season two, they started talking

1467
00:58:16.440 --> 00:58:19.860
to him about before Sarah Jones.

1468
00:58:19.920 --> 00:58:21.780
Yeah, yeah, it becomes Sarah Jane Adventures, that's what they

1469
00:58:21.780 --> 00:58:22.019
do.

1470
00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:23.219
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1471
00:58:23.579 --> 00:58:24.360
Do you think they would have gone?

1472
00:58:24.420 --> 00:58:25.559
Well, that's the thing.

1473
00:58:25.619 --> 00:58:27.960
He said, I did like a one page document and decided it would be

1474
00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:28.679
absolutely terrible.

1475
00:58:28.739 --> 00:58:30.420
So I pitched them Sarah Jane instead.

1476
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:31.800
Well, I'm really grateful for that.

1477
00:58:31.860 --> 00:58:33.960
I don't think it would have been terrible, but I think it would

1478
00:58:33.960 --> 00:58:37.019
have been a lot more work when, you know, Liz gave us a whole

1479
00:58:37.019 --> 00:58:37.559
world.

1480
00:58:37.619 --> 00:58:38.579
Yeah, we don't want to know.

1481
00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:40.139
It would have been demystification.

1482
00:58:40.199 --> 00:58:43.320
Yeah, we had that lovely moment in listen recently where we had

1483
00:58:43.320 --> 00:58:44.039
the young doctor.

1484
00:58:44.099 --> 00:58:45.539
Spoiler alert, but you know what?

1485
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:46.559
It was broadcast a few months ago.

1486
00:58:48.420 --> 00:58:51.360
But yeah, I, you know, that was brilliant.

1487
00:58:51.420 --> 00:58:54.059
And we don't see him.

1488
00:58:54.119 --> 00:58:58.380
We see him in shadow and we see him like we see a monster, which

1489
00:58:58.380 --> 00:58:58.980
is amazing.

1490
00:58:59.099 --> 00:59:03.599
And that, I mean, that brings me back to the monsters in this.

1491
00:59:03.659 --> 00:59:05.159
Put these nostrils.

1492
00:59:05.219 --> 00:59:07.260
You do get quite a few shots of those.

1493
00:59:07.320 --> 00:59:07.739
Yeah, yeah.

1494
00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:10.079
Remember when he's lying on that he hates those nostrils.

1495
00:59:10.139 --> 00:59:13.380
They do them quite a lot for someone who's asked them not to, don't

1496
00:59:13.380 --> 00:59:13.559
they?

1497
00:59:13.619 --> 00:59:16.679
But what's what's really interesting about this is they're really

1498
00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:21.719
trying to do non-humanoid aliens because Star Trek had finished

1499
00:59:21.719 --> 00:59:24.179
its run in the UK by this point.

1500
00:59:24.239 --> 00:59:26.639
And the original Star Trek had 2 types of aliens.

1501
00:59:26.699 --> 00:59:30.300
They had humans with funny bits or funny paint on them and they

1502
00:59:30.300 --> 00:59:34.260
had wibbly cameras on the pattern representing energy beings and

1503
00:59:34.260 --> 00:59:35.760
sometimes a combination of the two.

1504
00:59:35.880 --> 00:59:40.440
So when Doctor Who's trying to do aliens, they're going to do a

1505
00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:42.780
non-bipedal alien.

1506
00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:45.300
Okay, ends up looking like a penis in a coat, but whatever.

1507
00:59:45.360 --> 00:59:48.480
And they're going to do an alien which is a head in a jar.

1508
00:59:48.539 --> 00:59:49.980
We do it much, much better.

1509
00:59:50.039 --> 00:59:52.440
I can't wait to see how they do Croton the Coronavore.

1510
00:59:52.500 --> 00:59:53.400
It's going to be fantastic.

1511
00:59:53.519 --> 00:59:56.880
But the croats on the coronavirus.

1512
00:59:56.940 --> 00:59:59.579
I love the I love the head on the jar.

1513
00:59:59.639 --> 01:00:02.519
That's like the face of bow. you know where he turns up later?

1514
01:00:02.579 --> 01:00:03.840
Octurus.

1515
01:00:03.900 --> 01:00:04.980
Very good.

1516
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:07.860
It only turns out later, Bernard's his name.

1517
01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:08.940
Burn it up.

1518
01:00:08.940 --> 01:00:10.619
Bernard is his name.

1519
01:00:10.679 --> 01:00:11.519
Do you know he turns up?

1520
01:00:11.579 --> 01:00:13.139
In fact, he is Bernard.

1521
01:00:13.199 --> 01:00:15.599
The same out costume he's used to the blackout a Christmas special

1522
01:00:15.599 --> 01:00:19.920
and he's with nursey inside it, Bernard, and he's part of the...

1523
01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:21.659
He's part of the triple husbandoid.

1524
01:00:21.719 --> 01:00:22.739
That's right.

1525
01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:23.579
That Queenie.

1526
01:00:23.639 --> 01:00:25.320
I must say that again.

1527
01:00:25.380 --> 01:00:27.179
So they did revive and resuscitate him.

1528
01:00:27.239 --> 01:00:28.260
And it was nursey all the time.

1529
01:00:28.320 --> 01:00:31.679
It's actually Murphy Grumba inside that machine.

1530
01:00:31.679 --> 01:00:32.460
It's been a Dalek.

1531
01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:35.219
Murphy Grumbo and he has to operate the gun by kicking it with his

1532
01:00:35.219 --> 01:00:35.460
foot.

1533
01:00:35.519 --> 01:00:39.119
But this is a, I mean, this is this is what they try and do in the

1534
01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:42.840
end of the world and then again in the rings of Atkinson, which is

1535
01:00:42.840 --> 01:00:47.400
to produce as many sort of strange aliens as they possibly can on

1536
01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:48.780
their sort of limited budget.

1537
01:00:48.840 --> 01:00:52.079
And you can see, like Russell's just pulling out all of the stops

1538
01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:55.980
in the end of the world to be as expensive as possible. in the

1539
01:00:55.980 --> 01:01:00.300
discontinuity guide, Cornell Day and topping note that there's

1540
01:01:00.300 --> 01:01:02.219
only one bed in the ice Warriors.

1541
01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:03.000
Yes.

1542
01:01:03.119 --> 01:01:05.880
We don't know the gender of Sorg, though, do we?

1543
01:01:05.940 --> 01:01:06.659
Sorg has to stand.

1544
01:01:07.199 --> 01:01:08.760
How do you know that?

1545
01:01:09.420 --> 01:01:11.880
Because the outfit has a rod in the back.

1546
01:01:11.940 --> 01:01:14.519
That's the thing has to click into.

1547
01:01:14.579 --> 01:01:17.519
To sit down on the set of the ice Warriors, Bernard Brisler had to

1548
01:01:17.519 --> 01:01:18.599
have a shooting stick round up.

1549
01:01:18.659 --> 01:01:19.860
So to me, really?

1550
01:01:19.980 --> 01:01:21.000
Yes, you know, you did.

1551
01:01:21.059 --> 01:01:21.360
He did.

1552
01:01:21.420 --> 01:01:23.099
That's why he's terrible.

1553
01:01:23.159 --> 01:01:25.260
That's why he begged to have the part returned.

1554
01:01:25.260 --> 01:01:29.159
Who would have known that fibreglass was so expensive that you had

1555
01:01:29.159 --> 01:01:34.139
to amortise the expense over like 4 terrible stories?

1556
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:36.539
Okay, they're not that terrible.

1557
01:01:36.599 --> 01:01:39.780
Except for Monster Paladon, which is really, truly awful.

1558
01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:40.800
Well, we're not there yet.

1559
01:01:40.860 --> 01:01:45.300
I do think this is a lot more effective than, like, all the aliens

1560
01:01:45.300 --> 01:01:47.460
turning up in the end of the world and all the aliens turning up

1561
01:01:47.460 --> 01:01:50.760
in rings of Akaten, simply because each of the aliens in this are

1562
01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:53.400
given a character, they're given characterisation.

1563
01:01:53.460 --> 01:01:55.800
Oh, they're just spectacle, I think, in the end of the world. you

1564
01:01:55.800 --> 01:01:56.219
know what I mean?

1565
01:01:56.280 --> 01:02:00.179
I think that's deliberately, you know, intended to say this is

1566
01:02:00.179 --> 01:02:02.099
Doctor Who, you know, you might remember it.

1567
01:02:02.159 --> 01:02:04.739
Well, this is this is flashing...

1568
01:02:04.739 --> 01:02:09.119
You might remember it as a sort of penis in our shower curtain, but

1569
01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:10.920
we have a lot more money now and here's what we can do.

1570
01:02:10.980 --> 01:02:12.659
And we've got people made out of wicker baskets.

1571
01:02:12.780 --> 01:02:15.719
I actually think the most convincing alien is Alpha Centauri, and

1572
01:02:15.719 --> 01:02:17.099
I love the characterisation.

1573
01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:20.760
He's utterly convincing as a perplexed civil servant.

1574
01:02:20.820 --> 01:02:24.900
And you know, Isan Churchman, who plays, yeah, the queen of the

1575
01:02:24.900 --> 01:02:28.079
spiders, as Alpha Centauri, as everything else, was told to play

1576
01:02:28.079 --> 01:02:34.019
Centauri as a perplexed and bothered homosexualist civil servant.

1577
01:02:34.079 --> 01:02:34.679
Yes.

1578
01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:35.699
I think she's great.

1579
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:38.219
It's a really memorable character.

1580
01:02:38.280 --> 01:02:38.699
I really love it.

1581
01:02:38.760 --> 01:02:39.420
Really love him.

1582
01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:41.880
And especially... he was going to get his own spinoff too, wasn't

1583
01:02:41.880 --> 01:02:42.000
he?

1584
01:02:42.059 --> 01:02:43.079
Offer Centorian friends.

1585
01:02:43.139 --> 01:02:45.480
I thought that was just disappearance on the black and white

1586
01:02:45.480 --> 01:02:46.139
minstrel show.

1587
01:02:46.199 --> 01:02:49.320
Yes, we should make sure that he actually did appear. didn't he

1588
01:02:49.320 --> 01:02:50.159
actually appear...

1589
01:02:50.219 --> 01:02:51.360
Did he do it black and white men?

1590
01:02:51.360 --> 01:02:51.780
Yeah, he do.

1591
01:02:51.840 --> 01:02:54.900
Yeah, yep, they did a dance number on the moon, so he's surrounded

1592
01:02:54.900 --> 01:02:57.119
by people in blackface and curly wings.

1593
01:02:57.179 --> 01:02:59.340
Oh my God, England is such a miserable place.

1594
01:02:59.400 --> 01:03:00.840
You know, it says a lot.

1595
01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:04.260
It was the highest rating program on the ABC. rated higher than

1596
01:03:04.260 --> 01:03:06.539
the 2 Ronnies, which was the other highest rating thing at the

1597
01:03:06.539 --> 01:03:06.659
time.

1598
01:03:06.719 --> 01:03:10.320
It says a lot when the when the least objectionable thing on the

1599
01:03:10.320 --> 01:03:12.599
screen is a giant green penis in a shower curtain.

1600
01:03:12.719 --> 01:03:14.099
I've never seen no.

1601
01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:17.159
I've seen this.

1602
01:03:17.159 --> 01:03:19.139
I was going to say, the greens are your dogs.

1603
01:03:19.199 --> 01:03:19.980
It's very sensible.

1604
01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:24.360
I think we stop it from splashing all over the parquetry.

1605
01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:26.639
Ah, parquetry.

1606
01:03:26.699 --> 01:03:28.559
The doctor's in his parquet waistcoat.

1607
01:03:28.559 --> 01:03:30.960
It's the 1st time he wears a waistcoat.

1608
01:03:31.079 --> 01:03:33.179
Forgive our indulgence listener, we'll get there in the end.

1609
01:03:33.300 --> 01:03:34.260
And he makes it out of parquet.

1610
01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:35.639
It's so awful, isn't it?

1611
01:03:35.699 --> 01:03:38.940
There are some real... terrible fashion experiments for the doctor

1612
01:03:38.940 --> 01:03:41.880
this year because in the mutants he's going to wear...

1613
01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:42.239
Stop that.

1614
01:03:42.300 --> 01:03:44.699
Do you know Pertwee was designing his own outfits because Patrick

1615
01:03:44.699 --> 01:03:45.780
McNee got to.

1616
01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:47.280
Did you know this story, Brandon?

1617
01:03:47.340 --> 01:03:49.320
this time I'm wearing a cravat.

1618
01:03:49.380 --> 01:03:50.579
We had a lot more.

1619
01:03:50.639 --> 01:03:52.860
Yeah, probably had a lot more influence on what he wore this

1620
01:03:52.860 --> 01:03:53.099
season.

1621
01:03:53.159 --> 01:03:54.599
I can't say I'm surprised.

1622
01:03:54.659 --> 01:03:56.400
Yeah, it certainly didn't help though.

1623
01:03:57.360 --> 01:03:59.760
Awful, awful, awful.

1624
01:03:59.820 --> 01:04:03.059
Look at what Roger and Tony were wearing in the persuaders.

1625
01:04:03.119 --> 01:04:05.340
It's not that bad right at the same time.

1626
01:04:05.400 --> 01:04:08.519
And it does add a lot more character to him because he pretty much

1627
01:04:08.519 --> 01:04:13.739
spent 8 of the 9 stories of his 1st 2 years in the same costume.

1628
01:04:13.739 --> 01:04:19.679
And this year, there's red coats, there's orange coats, there's

1629
01:04:19.679 --> 01:04:23.579
the black coat and blue coat occasionally, you know, it makes him

1630
01:04:23.579 --> 01:04:24.420
a lot more...

1631
01:04:24.420 --> 01:04:25.199
Scarf and a pin.

1632
01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:27.119
Oh, that's next season.

1633
01:04:27.239 --> 01:04:28.920
I think we're getting less capes too.

1634
01:04:28.980 --> 01:04:31.019
And I actually think I hate the cape.

1635
01:04:31.079 --> 01:04:31.800
I think it just looks stupid.

1636
01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:34.500
He's got a lovely Inverness cape now, hasn't he?

1637
01:04:34.559 --> 01:04:37.559
Sherlock Holmes, because again, it's the Baskervilles reference.

1638
01:04:37.619 --> 01:04:39.780
I think it's to wear the cape as much.

1639
01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:41.340
He'll wear it at the beginning and then take it off.

1640
01:04:41.400 --> 01:04:43.139
I think it's his day wear.

1641
01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:47.340
He looks like dashing, I have to say, with the jacket. you know

1642
01:04:47.340 --> 01:04:47.699
what I mean?

1643
01:04:47.760 --> 01:04:48.659
Like, I like it a lot.

1644
01:04:48.840 --> 01:04:49.860
Just with the velvet.

1645
01:04:49.920 --> 01:04:53.159
Yeah, no previous doctor has, you know, everyone's worn sort of

1646
01:04:53.159 --> 01:04:55.739
tails or quite a long jacket and he's just wearing a sort of

1647
01:04:55.739 --> 01:04:57.480
normal length coat thing.

1648
01:04:57.599 --> 01:04:58.500
I think he looks pretty good.

1649
01:04:58.559 --> 01:05:01.739
And I like the way his costume's going where it'll be like a

1650
01:05:01.739 --> 01:05:05.340
wardrobe of different coloured sort of velvet. he mixes and

1651
01:05:05.340 --> 01:05:06.179
snatches with that.

1652
01:05:06.239 --> 01:05:09.480
Like, sort of like Capaldi, except that that polka dot thing that

1653
01:05:09.480 --> 01:05:11.519
he wears in Kilamoon is unforgivably bad.

1654
01:05:11.579 --> 01:05:15.059
I'll see if I can find it, but there was a rather wonderful thing

1655
01:05:15.059 --> 01:05:19.380
when the classic series Doctor Who figures 5 inch range was still

1656
01:05:19.380 --> 01:05:19.980
in production.

1657
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:25.619
You know, an adult wouldn't snigger at the words 5 inch.

1658
01:05:26.039 --> 01:05:31.199
But it was when various pertwies were coming out.

1659
01:05:31.260 --> 01:05:35.699
I think we ended up with sort of six. to figure outfits of pert

1660
01:05:35.699 --> 01:05:36.000
week.

1661
01:05:36.059 --> 01:05:39.900
Well, someone took the basic stock standard photo of the pert we

1662
01:05:39.900 --> 01:05:43.980
action figure and Photoshopped all the different possible pert we

1663
01:05:43.980 --> 01:05:44.340
outfits.

1664
01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:46.559
And I think they ended up with about 20 because, of course, some

1665
01:05:46.559 --> 01:05:49.199
of them are unique to their story, like Monster of Pellet and he

1666
01:05:49.199 --> 01:05:51.659
never wears that again. et cetera, et cetera.

1667
01:05:51.719 --> 01:05:55.559
And I just thought I would buy all 20 of these.

1668
01:05:55.980 --> 01:05:59.340
I would want to have my rainbow of pertly.

1669
01:05:59.400 --> 01:06:01.019
And I think that's that's the one.

1670
01:06:01.139 --> 01:06:02.519
Rainbow of perk, sweet.

1671
01:06:02.579 --> 01:06:04.199
We would now have the collective noun.

1672
01:06:05.099 --> 01:06:08.219
I think he'd approve. he'd approve of that.

1673
01:06:08.280 --> 01:06:12.179
Poetry, we do discover at the end, and it does seem to be

1674
01:06:12.179 --> 01:06:16.679
something that's kind of grafted on by Terence Diggs because Brian

1675
01:06:16.679 --> 01:06:20.460
Hales is writing a kind of old-fashioned story where the doctor's

1676
01:06:20.460 --> 01:06:21.659
just sort of travelling around.

1677
01:06:21.780 --> 01:06:25.440
So Terrence Dix has the doctor to decide that in fact, what's

1678
01:06:25.440 --> 01:06:28.559
happened all along is that he hasn't got the TARDAS to work and

1679
01:06:28.559 --> 01:06:30.480
this is the time...

1680
01:06:30.539 --> 01:06:30.900
Yeah.

1681
01:06:30.960 --> 01:06:33.719
And that's something that is going to be used in a couple of times

1682
01:06:33.719 --> 01:06:35.820
again, I think, in the it's been used once before.

1683
01:06:35.880 --> 01:06:37.980
It's going to be used once more.

1684
01:06:38.039 --> 01:06:40.380
Yeah, so it's been used in colony.

1685
01:06:40.440 --> 01:06:44.159
It's going to be used again in mutants, and then it's used for a

1686
01:06:44.159 --> 01:06:46.320
couple of early Tom Bakers, actually.

1687
01:06:46.380 --> 01:06:47.400
Yes, yes, that's true.

1688
01:06:47.460 --> 01:06:50.699
But he won't quite fix the TARDIS, yeah.

1689
01:06:50.760 --> 01:06:51.059
No.

1690
01:06:51.119 --> 01:06:55.139
And as we'll see, the next story seems to be going back a little

1691
01:06:55.139 --> 01:06:59.219
in the per we hear in that we do not see the Tartars at all in the

1692
01:06:59.219 --> 01:07:00.059
sea devils.

1693
01:07:07.079 --> 01:07:12.119
Someone said that it's the last story where the TARDIS doesn't get

1694
01:07:12.119 --> 01:07:12.840
seen or mentioned.

1695
01:07:12.900 --> 01:07:16.380
It is the last story where you just, it's not even. progged.

1696
01:07:16.440 --> 01:07:20.400
The only time it almost happens again is seeds of doom, but they

1697
01:07:20.400 --> 01:07:23.159
throw in that last... at the end.

1698
01:07:23.219 --> 01:07:24.420
Have we been here before?

1699
01:07:24.480 --> 01:07:26.219
It's like doing a podcast, isn't it?

1700
01:07:26.340 --> 01:07:27.420
Have we said this before?

1701
01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:29.820
No, I was wondering if in season 12.

1702
01:07:30.119 --> 01:07:31.260
Like, you don't see...

1703
01:07:31.380 --> 01:07:35.519
Yes, actually, you don't see it in... and Genesis of the Daleks.

1704
01:07:35.639 --> 01:07:37.199
Yeah, it might get a mention, though.

1705
01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:38.219
I think it might be mentioned.

1706
01:07:38.340 --> 01:07:40.320
I don't think it's even mentioned in this story.

1707
01:07:40.380 --> 01:07:42.000
No, it's not.

1708
01:07:42.059 --> 01:07:44.460
Yeah, we've got Malcolm Hawke back again writing a direct sequel

1709
01:07:44.460 --> 01:07:46.260
to his season 7 story.

1710
01:07:46.320 --> 01:07:48.659
We haven't applauded Malcolm Hulk yet, have we?

1711
01:07:48.719 --> 01:07:49.199
No, no.

1712
01:07:49.260 --> 01:07:53.579
So this is Malcolm Hulk's yearly story about giant lizards, as you

1713
01:07:53.579 --> 01:07:54.360
would say, Nathan.

1714
01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:55.559
We have the sea devils here.

1715
01:07:56.400 --> 01:08:01.619
Yes, and the experimental score by Malcolm Clark, who wouldn't

1716
01:08:01.619 --> 01:08:04.139
work on the show again until 1982.

1717
01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:05.400
Poor thing though.

1718
01:08:05.460 --> 01:08:09.719
Apparently he was just told we want it to be electronic, unusual

1719
01:08:09.719 --> 01:08:10.440
and experimental.

1720
01:08:10.500 --> 01:08:12.179
You know, I was given no other guidance.

1721
01:08:12.239 --> 01:08:13.139
You know why?

1722
01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:13.980
It was a budget cup.

1723
01:08:14.039 --> 01:08:16.680
The reason they could have Dudley was working very, very hard on

1724
01:08:16.680 --> 01:08:20.460
other things and was bringing things only 3 days before the cut.

1725
01:08:20.460 --> 01:08:25.199
Because Dudley was also freelancer, the BBC radiophonic workshop

1726
01:08:25.199 --> 01:08:27.720
and yes, they weren't actually seen as perfunctory as the title

1727
01:08:27.720 --> 01:08:30.060
suggests, we're told to do it.

1728
01:08:30.119 --> 01:08:33.060
And I think was Hodgson said, look, you know, we're all too busy.

1729
01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:35.279
We've got lovely young chap here called Malcolm Clark.

1730
01:08:35.340 --> 01:08:37.500
And he was given the Delaware, as they called it, because of

1731
01:08:37.500 --> 01:08:41.880
Delaware, Delaware Road, but it's the SC 63, I think it was

1732
01:08:41.939 --> 01:08:42.479
exerciseer.

1733
01:08:42.539 --> 01:08:43.979
Yeah, it was a very early synthesiser.

1734
01:08:44.039 --> 01:08:46.500
But the problem is you could only play one note at a time, so

1735
01:08:46.500 --> 01:08:49.140
everything had to be multi-tracked just to get a chord, every

1736
01:08:49.140 --> 01:08:49.680
single chord.

1737
01:08:50.159 --> 01:08:53.279
Funnily enough, I don't find this score.

1738
01:08:53.340 --> 01:08:55.500
We haven't talked much about the music so far this year, and yet

1739
01:08:55.500 --> 01:08:56.340
it's quite prevalent.

1740
01:08:56.399 --> 01:08:59.640
I don't find this score anywhere near as grating as my all-time

1741
01:08:59.640 --> 01:09:02.579
favourite composer's work for this series is Tristram Carey.

1742
01:09:02.640 --> 01:09:05.579
I mean, Tristram's work comes up in a future story of this

1743
01:09:05.579 --> 01:09:05.939
season.

1744
01:09:05.939 --> 01:09:07.680
It's really annoying.

1745
01:09:07.739 --> 01:09:11.939
I think that, I mean, the music is odd this season and this stands

1746
01:09:11.939 --> 01:09:13.140
out, but not that much.

1747
01:09:13.199 --> 01:09:14.520
That's the thing, isn't it?

1748
01:09:14.579 --> 01:09:16.920
It should support the story, but not to the point you're going

1749
01:09:16.920 --> 01:09:18.899
what the hell is that noise when you're actually trying to watch

1750
01:09:18.899 --> 01:09:19.739
the production?

1751
01:09:19.859 --> 01:09:20.760
It's true.

1752
01:09:20.760 --> 01:09:24.119
It does a bit of both. face or something like that?

1753
01:09:24.180 --> 01:09:27.659
See, what I quite like about it is it starts off as really quite

1754
01:09:27.659 --> 01:09:28.380
conventional.

1755
01:09:28.439 --> 01:09:33.060
But then when the monsters start appearing, we get the famous, you

1756
01:09:33.060 --> 01:09:35.939
know, we get the famous...

1757
01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:38.579
So you don't need, you don't need TV.

1758
01:09:38.640 --> 01:09:41.880
No, I'm just going to sit here and listen to Brendan and do

1759
01:09:41.880 --> 01:09:42.359
the...

1760
01:09:42.359 --> 01:09:45.359
I really quite like it.

1761
01:09:45.420 --> 01:09:46.439
And we get all those things.

1762
01:09:46.439 --> 01:09:49.439
Like, bang, wing, wing.

1763
01:09:49.439 --> 01:09:54.000
They do the they do the master's theme in the sea devil style

1764
01:09:54.000 --> 01:09:54.960
music sting.

1765
01:09:55.020 --> 01:09:55.920
You know, it's really well.

1766
01:09:55.979 --> 01:09:57.720
And of course, Roger Delgado's back.

1767
01:09:57.779 --> 01:10:02.399
We haven't seen him for a couple of stories, which is...

1768
01:10:02.460 --> 01:10:05.520
This is probably the biggest story where you can look at it and go

1769
01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:08.460
right, I'm seeing where Michelle Gomez is getting informed by her

1770
01:10:08.460 --> 01:10:11.159
characters because the master is having a wow of a time in this

1771
01:10:11.159 --> 01:10:11.460
story.

1772
01:10:11.520 --> 01:10:14.159
You know, yes, okay, he's locked up, but he's in luxury.

1773
01:10:14.279 --> 01:10:16.560
I want a colour telly.

1774
01:10:16.619 --> 01:10:18.960
But Russell steals the clang of scene.

1775
01:10:19.020 --> 01:10:22.319
So the clangers are like knitted puppets.

1776
01:10:22.319 --> 01:10:23.039
Little knitted puppet.

1777
01:10:23.159 --> 01:10:25.739
On wood instruments.

1778
01:10:25.800 --> 01:10:26.939
They talk with recorders.

1779
01:10:27.000 --> 01:10:29.939
Yeah, and they sort of go for a couple of years and stuff and

1780
01:10:29.939 --> 01:10:32.159
they're like kids TV, a little short, I think.

1781
01:10:32.159 --> 01:10:33.420
You can see them on YouTube.

1782
01:10:33.479 --> 01:10:36.539
But Russell steals the scene for sound of drums.

1783
01:10:36.600 --> 01:10:38.340
Yeah, with Teletubbies.

1784
01:10:38.399 --> 01:10:41.939
Yeah, I don't I don't think it's impacted there simply because

1785
01:10:41.939 --> 01:10:46.020
John Sim isn't the charming master, like Rod Delgado is very

1786
01:10:46.020 --> 01:10:47.699
charming and so...

1787
01:10:47.699 --> 01:10:49.079
He's actually there whistling along with them.

1788
01:10:49.140 --> 01:10:51.239
Like, as if he's trying to communicate with them.

1789
01:10:51.300 --> 01:10:53.460
He's actually whistling as he's watching the players.

1790
01:10:53.520 --> 01:10:56.460
And he's watching the clangers on the world's worst video screen

1791
01:10:56.460 --> 01:10:58.079
which they just stole from the goodies set.

1792
01:10:58.199 --> 01:11:00.060
Oh, you mean John Sims or this one?

1793
01:11:00.180 --> 01:11:02.340
No, they are goodies.

1794
01:11:02.340 --> 01:11:03.899
Yeah, they're yellow painted.

1795
01:11:03.960 --> 01:11:05.699
Yellow Venetian blinds.

1796
01:11:05.760 --> 01:11:07.380
Because this is the future.

1797
01:11:07.800 --> 01:11:10.260
But in the goodies, it's done as a joke.

1798
01:11:11.520 --> 01:11:14.760
Yeah, it was meant to be said on an oil rig.

1799
01:11:14.819 --> 01:11:18.720
The old sea fort where the doctor 1st encounters sea devils was

1800
01:11:18.720 --> 01:11:20.939
meant to be an oil rig, and that was ruled out for several

1801
01:11:20.939 --> 01:11:21.300
reasons.

1802
01:11:21.359 --> 01:11:22.439
First of all, the location.

1803
01:11:22.500 --> 01:11:26.039
It wasn't where the oil rigs at the time existed and there was no

1804
01:11:26.039 --> 01:11:27.239
evidence there would be oil there.

1805
01:11:27.300 --> 01:11:30.479
So of all the things to go, oh, that's too much of a stretch.

1806
01:11:30.539 --> 01:11:33.359
We're not going to say there's oil under this stretch of the

1807
01:11:33.359 --> 01:11:33.600
channel.

1808
01:11:33.659 --> 01:11:37.140
But the main reason was they wouldn't have been able to do any

1809
01:11:37.140 --> 01:11:40.079
location filming on it because women weren't permitted on oil

1810
01:11:40.079 --> 01:11:40.680
rigs.

1811
01:11:40.739 --> 01:11:42.960
And Katie wouldn't have been able to go on it.

1812
01:11:43.079 --> 01:11:45.119
They could have just got Stuart failing the week.

1813
01:11:45.180 --> 01:11:45.539
What exactly?

1814
01:11:45.600 --> 01:11:46.739
Two points of irony there.

1815
01:11:47.279 --> 01:11:50.579
Joe never climbs the exterior of the four.

1816
01:11:50.699 --> 01:11:51.359
It Stuart fell.

1817
01:11:51.479 --> 01:11:52.439
Very convincing.

1818
01:11:52.500 --> 01:11:52.920
Yeah.

1819
01:11:52.979 --> 01:11:53.399
Oh yeah.

1820
01:11:53.399 --> 01:11:54.300
There's a bottom double.

1821
01:11:54.359 --> 01:11:58.140
Stuart Fell is...

1822
01:11:58.140 --> 01:12:00.720
He says in an interview that he deliberately gave himself a bit of

1823
01:12:00.720 --> 01:12:02.340
a wiggle to emulate Katie.

1824
01:12:02.399 --> 01:12:06.899
But the 2nd thing, do we know who the 1st woman in Britain allowed

1825
01:12:06.899 --> 01:12:08.220
on an oil rig was?

1826
01:12:08.279 --> 01:12:09.180
Margaret Thatcher.

1827
01:12:09.239 --> 01:12:10.859
Elizabeth Sladen.

1828
01:12:10.920 --> 01:12:11.460
Oh, really?

1829
01:12:11.520 --> 01:12:14.880
Several years later, and you can see this on the terror of the

1830
01:12:14.880 --> 01:12:16.079
Zigon's DVD.

1831
01:12:16.140 --> 01:12:19.380
Yeah, she made a school special about oil rigs and she was the 1st

1832
01:12:19.380 --> 01:12:20.939
woman permitted on an oil rig.

1833
01:12:21.000 --> 01:12:21.420
Wow.

1834
01:12:21.420 --> 01:12:24.659
I can see them all clutching their phantom pearls and spooning all

1835
01:12:24.659 --> 01:12:25.739
these poor riggers.

1836
01:12:25.800 --> 01:12:28.800
But collapsing under the weight of...

1837
01:12:28.800 --> 01:12:31.920
Because they have to wear pants because there's a lady around.

1838
01:12:31.979 --> 01:12:34.140
But the thing is, I do love the story.

1839
01:12:34.199 --> 01:12:35.760
It's such a clever script.

1840
01:12:35.819 --> 01:12:37.739
For instance, it is Mac Hulk.

1841
01:12:37.859 --> 01:12:42.119
Blind, Trenchard, Hart, Walker.

1842
01:12:42.300 --> 01:12:46.979
The 4 major human characters who assist the doctor and really take

1843
01:12:46.979 --> 01:12:49.439
the place of the unit and the civil servant in this story.

1844
01:12:49.859 --> 01:12:53.819
They're all named after commissioned ships of the time.

1845
01:12:53.880 --> 01:12:55.199
Oh bless.

1846
01:12:55.260 --> 01:12:58.859
And also Blythe, as well as being an incredibly strong female

1847
01:12:58.859 --> 01:13:01.619
character who would have outranked Sergeant Benton.

1848
01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:03.060
Is that Maggie Harris?

1849
01:13:03.060 --> 01:13:04.020
It is Maggie Harris.

1850
01:13:04.079 --> 01:13:04.439
Yeah, yeah.

1851
01:13:04.439 --> 01:13:06.539
And the whole reason she was hired...

1852
01:13:06.539 --> 01:13:09.420
The one who murdered Victoria not long after the incurrence.

1853
01:13:09.479 --> 01:13:09.960
That's right.

1854
01:13:10.020 --> 01:13:13.560
The whole reason she was hired was that director Michael Lee

1855
01:13:13.560 --> 01:13:18.300
Bryant had worked on Fury from the Deep. and was impressed with

1856
01:13:18.300 --> 01:13:21.300
her because of the scene where she walks into the water and he

1857
01:13:21.300 --> 01:13:23.520
sort of says, you know, she made no fuss about it.

1858
01:13:23.579 --> 01:13:24.300
There was no panic.

1859
01:13:24.359 --> 01:13:27.060
She went in and stayed under the water for 30 seconds before

1860
01:13:27.060 --> 01:13:29.760
popping out. 30 minutes before anyone had remembered that she was

1861
01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:32.460
there before popping her head up and saying, that's professional.

1862
01:13:32.520 --> 01:13:33.180
Did I get that right?

1863
01:13:33.239 --> 01:13:35.279
She actually died in 10 minutes.

1864
01:13:35.340 --> 01:13:36.119
We have to recite.

1865
01:13:36.180 --> 01:13:37.079
But you know, she's a professional.

1866
01:13:37.199 --> 01:13:41.159
But she is such a, she is such a bit slow now.

1867
01:13:41.220 --> 01:13:43.800
A bit, you know, bones hard to remember the words.

1868
01:13:43.859 --> 01:13:46.439
Yeah, and then or, you know, where she put a soup or anything, but

1869
01:13:46.439 --> 01:13:47.939
she's, she's a trooper.

1870
01:13:48.000 --> 01:13:52.859
She's such a strong character and everyone around her treats her

1871
01:13:52.859 --> 01:13:54.899
with the respect, you know what?

1872
01:13:54.899 --> 01:13:56.279
And she never says she met Nelson.

1873
01:13:56.340 --> 01:13:58.800
No, she never she never bloody does.

1874
01:13:58.859 --> 01:14:03.300
The only person to disrespect her on the basis of her agenda is

1875
01:14:03.300 --> 01:14:03.600
Walker.

1876
01:14:03.659 --> 01:14:04.140
Walker.

1877
01:14:04.140 --> 01:14:04.380
Yeah.

1878
01:14:04.439 --> 01:14:05.460
That's true.

1879
01:14:05.520 --> 01:14:06.239
And that's the thing.

1880
01:14:06.239 --> 01:14:07.800
We're not meant to like Walker.

1881
01:14:07.859 --> 01:14:08.279
No, no, no.

1882
01:14:08.340 --> 01:14:10.680
Mr. Walker's the one who can't stop notion, can he?

1883
01:14:10.739 --> 01:14:12.539
He's the pert we. in a puffyosis.

1884
01:14:12.659 --> 01:14:14.159
He's season 7 pertly.

1885
01:14:14.220 --> 01:14:15.659
He's season 7 per week.

1886
01:14:15.720 --> 01:14:17.880
Whereas Per we nixed the cheese sambos, though.

1887
01:14:17.880 --> 01:14:20.039
Per we does need so mean...

1888
01:14:20.100 --> 01:14:23.100
I think it's the Nadir of their relationship is in this one.

1889
01:14:23.159 --> 01:14:26.100
He's pretty horrible in this...

1890
01:14:26.159 --> 01:14:28.859
I think that's the worst thing that he does to her.

1891
01:14:28.920 --> 01:14:32.760
But again, he doesn't violent sword play makes me hungry.

1892
01:14:32.819 --> 01:14:35.819
Yeah, no, he's constantly stealing sandwiches all the way.

1893
01:14:35.880 --> 01:14:37.619
Yeah, he steals the master sandwich.

1894
01:14:37.739 --> 01:14:39.060
He steals that guy's boat.

1895
01:14:39.119 --> 01:14:42.359
He does sort of apologise to Joe for the sandwiches.

1896
01:14:42.420 --> 01:14:45.600
Yeah, and Blythe is just like, Blythe kind of gives her a look

1897
01:14:45.600 --> 01:14:47.939
like, oh, man, I'll go make his...

1898
01:14:48.000 --> 01:14:48.659
No, thank you.

1899
01:14:48.720 --> 01:14:49.619
She does, man.

1900
01:14:49.619 --> 01:14:50.100
That's the thing.

1901
01:14:50.159 --> 01:14:51.119
She doesn't make the sandwiches.

1902
01:14:51.180 --> 01:14:53.100
She orders someone else to make the sense.

1903
01:14:53.159 --> 01:14:54.119
She's too good for that.

1904
01:14:54.180 --> 01:14:58.560
If she is a wren, at the time the women's naval officers were in a

1905
01:14:58.560 --> 01:14:59.460
different category.

1906
01:14:59.520 --> 01:15:04.859
She is a 3rd officer, which is the equivalent of a sub-lieutenant

1907
01:15:04.859 --> 01:15:05.880
or ensign.

1908
01:15:05.939 --> 01:15:09.300
So she's the Leslie Phillips equivalent from the Navy luck.

1909
01:15:09.359 --> 01:15:10.500
I think the reason I really liked this.

1910
01:15:10.560 --> 01:15:12.420
You know, Perkley was still making the Navy life.

1911
01:15:12.420 --> 01:15:13.260
Oh, yeah, this was filmed.

1912
01:15:13.319 --> 01:15:13.560
Yeah.

1913
01:15:13.560 --> 01:15:14.640
You know, we've touched on it.

1914
01:15:14.699 --> 01:15:15.960
I'm still making that after Doctor Who.

1915
01:15:16.020 --> 01:15:16.739
Yeah, very much so.

1916
01:15:16.800 --> 01:15:17.699
Went into the late 70s.

1917
01:15:17.760 --> 01:15:21.239
The longest running British sitcom happened to be on the radio.

1918
01:15:21.300 --> 01:15:22.140
It started in 59.

1919
01:15:22.319 --> 01:15:24.300
And I love Pertwi in that.

1920
01:15:24.359 --> 01:15:27.359
I actually like him a lot more in that than I do in Doctor Who.

1921
01:15:27.420 --> 01:15:29.279
What's him do, I think, because the characters, but I think

1922
01:15:29.279 --> 01:15:32.159
Perkley himself felt more comfortable in his playing a denoted

1923
01:15:32.159 --> 01:15:32.579
character.

1924
01:15:32.640 --> 01:15:33.960
I think he was still.

1925
01:15:34.199 --> 01:15:35.220
Did you get the feeling?

1926
01:15:35.279 --> 01:15:36.899
Maybe that's why, in fact, he's interesting.

1927
01:15:36.960 --> 01:15:39.899
He's still not feeling entirely comfortable with the idea of just

1928
01:15:39.899 --> 01:15:40.380
playing himself.

1929
01:15:40.439 --> 01:15:41.760
Doesn't know who that is.

1930
01:15:41.819 --> 01:15:46.020
So he keeps defaulting to Basil Rathbone in the Robin Hood film or

1931
01:15:46.020 --> 01:15:50.039
he's a little bit patrician or, you know, when he's with a little

1932
01:15:50.039 --> 01:15:51.840
bit with whomever.

1933
01:15:51.899 --> 01:15:54.359
He's still trying to work out exactly what the doctor is, but that

1934
01:15:54.359 --> 01:15:55.260
makes it interesting to watch.

1935
01:15:55.319 --> 01:15:58.800
Well, I think when his demands are placed on him.

1936
01:15:58.859 --> 01:15:59.760
Do you know what I mean?

1937
01:15:59.760 --> 01:16:02.640
when he's actually forced to act by the script and that doesn't

1938
01:16:02.640 --> 01:16:03.180
happen very often.

1939
01:16:03.239 --> 01:16:04.680
He's pretty good.

1940
01:16:04.739 --> 01:16:07.920
When he's horribly treated, when he's under adversity, such as

1941
01:16:07.920 --> 01:16:10.680
Dave the Daleks, he's actually at his best when he's actually

1942
01:16:10.680 --> 01:16:12.000
getting a bit of proper biffo.

1943
01:16:12.060 --> 01:16:15.060
I mean, here too, here too, he has to convince people as well.

1944
01:16:15.119 --> 01:16:18.180
He doesn't just have the brigadier to, you know, go and do what he

1945
01:16:18.180 --> 01:16:18.479
says.

1946
01:16:18.539 --> 01:16:19.439
Yeah.

1947
01:16:19.439 --> 01:16:21.060
And with walk...

1948
01:16:21.060 --> 01:16:21.359
Yeah.

1949
01:16:21.359 --> 01:16:22.619
Is that Edwin Richfield?

1950
01:16:22.680 --> 01:16:23.399
Edwin Richfield.

1951
01:16:23.460 --> 01:16:27.359
He just he literally just stepped off the set from UFO playing an

1952
01:16:27.359 --> 01:16:27.720
admiral.

1953
01:16:27.779 --> 01:16:29.819
Captain John Hart, not the James.

1954
01:16:29.880 --> 01:16:33.060
Yeah, sorry, Captain's character from from Torchwork.

1955
01:16:33.119 --> 01:16:35.939
He's very convincing because you know how they got to use the pom

1956
01:16:35.460 --> 01:16:38.220
pom guns and other things is that a lot of the officers on the

1957
01:16:38.220 --> 01:16:42.359
ships thought that Richfield was actually a captain. because they

1958
01:16:42.359 --> 01:16:42.840
weren't allowed.

1959
01:16:42.899 --> 01:16:44.640
Siiblings weren't allowed anywhere near any of the tech.

1960
01:16:44.699 --> 01:16:45.060
Yeah.

1961
01:16:45.060 --> 01:16:46.500
Could I have some gam on this place?

1962
01:16:46.560 --> 01:16:49.560
Oh, yes, though. and opi-pops.

1963
01:16:49.560 --> 01:16:53.220
Yeah, he said to he said to a warrant officer, I think, oh, this

1964
01:16:53.220 --> 01:16:53.880
boat has gone.

1965
01:16:53.939 --> 01:16:54.899
How does that work?

1966
01:16:54.899 --> 01:16:56.520
Warrant officer, oh, well, you press this.

1967
01:16:56.579 --> 01:16:57.359
Oh, so I pressed this.

1968
01:16:57.420 --> 01:16:58.140
Yes, that's right, sir.

1969
01:16:58.199 --> 01:16:58.859
Okay, let's go.

1970
01:16:58.920 --> 01:17:02.220
And that was that got into the final program and the Navy were

1971
01:17:02.220 --> 01:17:05.340
rather annoyed, but as Barry Letz pointed out to them, we've just

1972
01:17:05.340 --> 01:17:08.279
given you 6 weeks of free publicity showing people how wonderful

1973
01:17:08.279 --> 01:17:09.539
life is in the Navy.

1974
01:17:09.600 --> 01:17:14.159
And a series got made off the back of this by the BBC called

1975
01:17:14.159 --> 01:17:16.739
Warship, which ran for 4 years.

1976
01:17:17.039 --> 01:17:21.899
It was already in pre-production because let's pitch a series to

1977
01:17:21.899 --> 01:17:22.380
the BBC.

1978
01:17:22.439 --> 01:17:23.760
You know, now we've worked with the Navy does.

1979
01:17:23.760 --> 01:17:26.279
And they said, actually, we're making one already, but it helped

1980
01:17:26.279 --> 01:17:29.279
strengthen the relationship to make warship and worship ran for 4

1981
01:17:29.279 --> 01:17:29.520
years.

1982
01:17:29.579 --> 01:17:32.220
A few details about the production of the story.

1983
01:17:32.279 --> 01:17:35.340
First of all, it actually had a very pragmatic development.

1984
01:17:35.399 --> 01:17:38.520
First of all, they decided the sort of setting they wanted.

1985
01:17:38.579 --> 01:17:40.079
They wanted a contemporary earth setting.

1986
01:17:40.140 --> 01:17:42.539
And then they thought, well, we've got to have the master back and

1987
01:17:42.539 --> 01:17:44.579
he's got to escape so we can use them in future stories.

1988
01:17:44.699 --> 01:17:48.300
Then they thought, oh, okay, in terms of a monster, we need to

1989
01:17:48.300 --> 01:17:49.500
have a monster in the story.

1990
01:17:49.560 --> 01:17:51.119
The Silurians, they were very popular.

1991
01:17:51.180 --> 01:17:52.380
It was actually planned.

1992
01:17:52.439 --> 01:17:53.939
Let's bring the Silurians back.

1993
01:17:54.000 --> 01:17:58.500
And it was Mac Hook, because he was chosen as the writer after

1994
01:17:58.500 --> 01:17:59.159
that idea.

1995
01:17:59.220 --> 01:18:01.079
It was, let's bring the Solarians back.

1996
01:18:01.140 --> 01:18:03.000
Oh, and if we're having a modern day earth story.

1997
01:18:03.060 --> 01:18:05.640
Let's make it a six-parter in case we need to make new costumes

1998
01:18:05.640 --> 01:18:09.659
because it's cheaper to make costumes for a six-parter than it is

1999
01:18:09.659 --> 01:18:10.500
for a four-parter.

2000
01:18:10.560 --> 01:18:13.739
And then it was decided, Mac Hook, and it was Mac Hook, who

2001
01:18:13.739 --> 01:18:17.039
decided I will give you a related race rather than just do the

2002
01:18:17.039 --> 01:18:17.699
same race again.

2003
01:18:17.760 --> 01:18:20.279
It was going to be called the C signing rate.

2004
01:18:20.340 --> 01:18:23.880
I think that was just a working title until we came up with

2005
01:18:23.880 --> 01:18:24.300
something better.

2006
01:18:24.420 --> 01:18:26.520
Oh, he never did, though, did he really?

2007
01:18:26.579 --> 01:18:28.079
Watery otters.

2008
01:18:28.140 --> 01:18:31.619
Also, the 1st episode of this story was one of the lowest rating

2009
01:18:31.619 --> 01:18:36.539
of the season, but that was because power strikes.

2010
01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:37.439
Power strikes.

2011
01:18:37.500 --> 01:18:37.920
That's right.

2012
01:18:37.979 --> 01:18:43.260
Because of a mining strike, meaning there was no coal to go in the

2013
01:18:43.260 --> 01:18:47.579
power, which also meant that at the top of episode two, Doctor Who

2014
01:18:47.579 --> 01:18:50.760
got its 1st ever narrated reprise, if you missed Doctor Who last

2015
01:18:50.760 --> 01:18:51.840
week, here is what happened.

2016
01:18:51.899 --> 01:18:53.460
It's on the disk, isn't it?

2017
01:18:53.460 --> 01:18:54.359
Oh, is it?

2018
01:18:54.420 --> 01:18:57.359
And the ratings did actually go up and up and up.

2019
01:18:57.420 --> 01:19:00.479
This was another story which broke 10000000 viewers several

2020
01:19:00.479 --> 01:19:00.899
times.

2021
01:19:01.439 --> 01:19:06.479
Again, we see the new sort of production model, Barry, let's set

2022
01:19:06.479 --> 01:19:09.180
up of 2 episodes being filmed at once because we've got the prison

2023
01:19:09.180 --> 01:19:12.180
for the 1st 4 episodes and then we get the sea devil's base for

2024
01:19:12.180 --> 01:19:12.899
the last 2 episodes.

2025
01:19:12.960 --> 01:19:15.539
We've got Trenchard for the 1st 4 episodes and then we get Walker

2026
01:19:15.539 --> 01:19:16.739
for the last 2 episodes.

2027
01:19:16.800 --> 01:19:20.159
Is this also the 1st one that's broadcast out of production

2028
01:19:20.159 --> 01:19:20.460
order?

2029
01:19:20.520 --> 01:19:21.420
It is indeed.

2030
01:19:21.479 --> 01:19:25.020
So it was shot after the mutants, but broadcast before.

2031
01:19:25.079 --> 01:19:26.579
That's right, before.

2032
01:19:26.579 --> 01:19:29.399
And so sometimes in the 60s, they were, I think they got as close

2033
01:19:29.399 --> 01:19:31.800
as a fortnight before transmission.

2034
01:19:31.920 --> 01:19:35.039
The whole reason this was broadcast out of order was to take

2035
01:19:35.039 --> 01:19:36.659
advantage for longer filming days.

2036
01:19:36.720 --> 01:19:37.680
Oh okay.

2037
01:19:37.739 --> 01:19:40.319
Because this was an episode with so much outside filming, they

2038
01:19:40.319 --> 01:19:44.220
allocated a more summary time of the year to get the hours and

2039
01:19:44.220 --> 01:19:48.720
pushed, I think it was Curse of Peladin, which was more studio

2040
01:19:48.720 --> 01:19:51.539
bound into the winter months for production.

2041
01:19:52.560 --> 01:19:55.859
They wanted some non-unit stories and they wanted to kind of, you

2042
01:19:55.859 --> 01:19:56.579
know, space them out.

2043
01:19:56.640 --> 01:19:59.399
This is the only non-unit story, though, on Earth.

2044
01:19:59.460 --> 01:20:01.260
Yeah, yeah, at all.

2045
01:20:01.319 --> 01:20:04.319
And unit is certainly mentioned and Captain Hart called them to

2046
01:20:04.319 --> 01:20:05.159
get the doctor.

2047
01:20:05.220 --> 01:20:07.859
They keep mentioning them, actually, in his unit passes and all of

2048
01:20:07.859 --> 01:20:10.619
that, and unit is the only reason that the doctor and Joe get to

2049
01:20:10.619 --> 01:20:11.760
see the master in his prison.

2050
01:20:11.880 --> 01:20:12.779
Yes, yeah.

2051
01:20:12.840 --> 01:20:16.079
And the master is the only prisoner in his prison.

2052
01:20:16.199 --> 01:20:17.220
It's a converted castle.

2053
01:20:17.279 --> 01:20:19.680
You know, we're back in the influence of Patrick McGooan again, I

2054
01:20:19.680 --> 01:20:19.800
think.

2055
01:20:19.920 --> 01:20:24.239
And it's guarded by people in capes and berets, all of whom have

2056
01:20:24.239 --> 01:20:28.140
moustaches, and all of whom drive citrons.

2057
01:20:28.199 --> 01:20:29.640
So are they all French?

2058
01:20:29.699 --> 01:20:31.680
Renault's without the drawers on.

2059
01:20:31.739 --> 01:20:32.399
Yeah, yeah.

2060
01:20:32.460 --> 01:20:35.159
Well, the whole reason for that was Michael E. Bryant owned one

2061
01:20:35.159 --> 01:20:38.279
and never saw them very much on British Rhodes.

2062
01:20:38.399 --> 01:20:40.560
So if I'm setting this slightly in the future.

2063
01:20:40.619 --> 01:20:44.159
Let's get something that's not popular in Britain yet, but my wife

2064
01:20:44.159 --> 01:20:45.420
and I have one and it's wonderful.

2065
01:20:45.539 --> 01:20:47.159
People must start buying them soon.

2066
01:20:47.159 --> 01:20:50.340
And we'll take the doors off to make them look futuristic because

2067
01:20:50.340 --> 01:20:51.000
of it.

2068
01:20:51.000 --> 01:20:52.260
Why do they all have moustaches?

2069
01:20:52.319 --> 01:20:53.399
That just seems...

2070
01:20:53.399 --> 01:20:55.500
Well, I think I think that's the influence of the master.

2071
01:20:55.500 --> 01:20:59.100
Because, yeah, clearly hypnotising the guards.

2072
01:20:59.159 --> 01:21:02.220
What I find really fascinating, though, is, you know, when

2073
01:21:02.220 --> 01:21:04.500
Trenchard starts acting weirdly, you think, oh, he's hypnotised

2074
01:21:04.500 --> 01:21:06.000
Trenchard, but no, he hasn't.

2075
01:21:06.060 --> 01:21:09.600
He's just convinced Trenchard that it's his patriotic duty to help

2076
01:21:09.600 --> 01:21:11.159
him and there's enemy agents.

2077
01:21:11.220 --> 01:21:14.340
And because Trenchard is this ex-colonial governor.

2078
01:21:14.399 --> 01:21:16.020
We're back on the theme of colonialism.

2079
01:21:16.140 --> 01:21:20.159
And he's been essentially put out to pastor, you know, he used to

2080
01:21:20.159 --> 01:21:22.920
run a whole colony and now he runs a prison with one prisoner.

2081
01:21:23.039 --> 01:21:26.399
Which a lot of ex-clinonials would be, you know, shuffled into

2082
01:21:26.399 --> 01:21:27.119
when they came home.

2083
01:21:27.180 --> 01:21:29.279
Like they joke about him being a failure.

2084
01:21:29.340 --> 01:21:31.859
Even the doctor and the master joke about how...

2085
01:21:31.920 --> 01:21:34.859
Yeah, yeah, he got sent out as colonial governor and the colony

2086
01:21:34.859 --> 01:21:37.319
declared independence, you know, like a few weeks later.

2087
01:21:37.380 --> 01:21:39.600
You'll see it again with the marshal and the mutants.

2088
01:21:39.659 --> 01:21:40.979
Yeah, we'll talk about that.

2089
01:21:41.039 --> 01:21:43.979
Yeah, I mean, it's amazing because it's the 1st time the masters

2090
01:21:43.979 --> 01:21:47.640
had someone helping him, but instead of forcing them to help him

2091
01:21:47.699 --> 01:21:50.939
He's manipulated him into that position.

2092
01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:55.319
And that makes his death all the more tragic because unlike, say

2093
01:21:55.319 --> 01:22:00.359
Farrell or the Verger in the Daimons, you know, you feel sorry for

2094
01:22:00.359 --> 01:22:03.000
them because they had no control of their actions, here's someone

2095
01:22:03.000 --> 01:22:05.399
who has just made a series of very bad decisions.

2096
01:22:05.460 --> 01:22:07.979
But for the what he believes is the right reason.

2097
01:22:08.039 --> 01:22:12.239
The novelisation, which is also by Malcolm Hulk, makes Trenchard's

2098
01:22:12.239 --> 01:22:16.319
death even more kind of tragic, what happens in the actual

2099
01:22:16.319 --> 01:22:19.979
broadcast thing, the sea devils invade the prison sort of

2100
01:22:19.979 --> 01:22:22.739
roundabout episode four, sort of midway through.

2101
01:22:22.800 --> 01:22:26.460
And they're attacking everyone and all of the moustache beret guys

2102
01:22:26.460 --> 01:22:28.800
are all being killed and that sort of thing.

2103
01:22:28.859 --> 01:22:31.619
And Trenchard goes to his office and gets out a revolver, his

2104
01:22:31.619 --> 01:22:34.979
trustee service revolver and he shoots a few.

2105
01:22:35.039 --> 01:22:37.619
We see him get off a few shots, but they don't have any effect.

2106
01:22:37.680 --> 01:22:41.399
And then the next time we see him, he's just lying dead in the

2107
01:22:41.399 --> 01:22:42.060
corridor.

2108
01:22:42.119 --> 01:22:43.500
In the novelisation.

2109
01:22:43.560 --> 01:22:46.560
He imagines, because he's terribly patriotic.

2110
01:22:46.619 --> 01:22:49.739
He imagines that he'll be the one man who sort of fought back

2111
01:22:49.739 --> 01:22:51.300
against the sea devils.

2112
01:22:51.359 --> 01:22:56.699
He envisages a future where there's a plaque on the wall, with his

2113
01:22:56.699 --> 01:22:59.220
name on it, talking about his sort of heroic victory.

2114
01:22:59.279 --> 01:23:03.239
And then he goes to shoot a sea devil and realises just at the

2115
01:23:03.239 --> 01:23:06.600
moment when the sea devil's ray gun kind of cooks his body.

2116
01:23:06.659 --> 01:23:09.899
Just at that moment he realises he's left the safety catch on.

2117
01:23:10.979 --> 01:23:15.720
Oh, that is, that, oh, that's really...

2118
01:23:15.720 --> 01:23:16.199
Yeah.

2119
01:23:16.260 --> 01:23:19.739
But it is that thing. you know, Mac Hulk, when he does his

2120
01:23:19.739 --> 01:23:23.819
novelisations, gives so much sort of depth and richness to the

2121
01:23:23.819 --> 01:23:25.140
characters in the background.

2122
01:23:25.199 --> 01:23:26.279
Mr. Robbins.

2123
01:23:26.340 --> 01:23:30.239
The doctor steals his boat and then Joe steals his motorcycle and

2124
01:23:30.239 --> 01:23:31.859
then the doctor blows up his boat.

2125
01:23:31.979 --> 01:23:35.039
He's not going to get that deposit back.

2126
01:23:35.100 --> 01:23:38.159
He wanted the master to be killed.

2127
01:23:38.220 --> 01:23:41.640
Like the death penalty and that was a big public trial and all of

2128
01:23:41.640 --> 01:23:42.300
that sort of thing.

2129
01:23:42.359 --> 01:23:45.479
The doctor intervenes to suggest life imprisonment for the master

2130
01:23:45.479 --> 01:23:47.760
and all of that sort of thing, but it had been a sort of big

2131
01:23:47.760 --> 01:23:48.420
political thing.

2132
01:23:48.479 --> 01:23:52.079
And so there's all this stuff, all this extra stuff, which I think

2133
01:23:52.079 --> 01:23:57.539
you know, always makes Matt Hulk's novelisations superior to the

2134
01:23:57.539 --> 01:23:58.319
actual stories.

2135
01:23:58.380 --> 01:23:59.460
Absolutely.

2136
01:23:59.520 --> 01:23:59.939
Absolutely.

2137
01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:03.300
I mean, even if he doesn't put it in the script, Mac Hole just has

2138
01:24:03.300 --> 01:24:04.079
this all in his head.

2139
01:24:04.140 --> 01:24:06.479
He's like, I can't, you know, I can't put this into half an hour

2140
01:24:06.479 --> 01:24:08.460
of television, but I can put it into a book.

2141
01:24:08.520 --> 01:24:12.119
A word on some of the actors, of course, Edward and Richfield

2142
01:24:12.119 --> 01:24:14.699
famous character actor, Richard, you mentioned, he was in UFO.

2143
01:24:14.760 --> 01:24:17.760
He is the only actor aside from Patrick McNee to appear in every

2144
01:24:17.760 --> 01:24:18.720
season of The Avengers.

2145
01:24:18.779 --> 01:24:20.760
He plays a different villain every season.

2146
01:24:20.819 --> 01:24:22.079
Oh, he does.

2147
01:24:22.140 --> 01:24:23.279
This is Captain Hart.

2148
01:24:23.340 --> 01:24:24.960
This is Captain Hart, Edward Richfield.

2149
01:24:25.020 --> 01:24:27.000
Do you know who he goes on to play in Doctor Who?

2150
01:24:27.060 --> 01:24:31.859
Yes, of course, he goes on to play Mestor in Doctor Who.

2151
01:24:31.920 --> 01:24:32.939
They're being sluggy.

2152
01:24:32.939 --> 01:24:33.899
The big...

2153
01:24:33.960 --> 01:24:34.680
Is that who he was?

2154
01:24:34.680 --> 01:24:35.520
That's who he was.

2155
01:24:35.579 --> 01:24:39.000
But only sometimes because he was incredibly claustrophobic.

2156
01:24:39.180 --> 01:24:42.359
And, you know, they put him in this giant slot costume.

2157
01:24:42.420 --> 01:24:46.619
Declan Mulholland. turns up as one of the workers converting the

2158
01:24:46.619 --> 01:24:46.979
fort.

2159
01:24:47.039 --> 01:24:48.420
And he'll turn up again.

2160
01:24:48.420 --> 01:24:52.380
Androids of Tara. and was also the original jab of the hut.

2161
01:24:52.439 --> 01:24:54.899
Ah, yes, okay.

2162
01:24:54.960 --> 01:25:00.779
And Hugh Futcher, his co-worker on the rig, was actually a

2163
01:25:00.779 --> 01:25:04.319
contender for the 7th doctor all the way later in 1987.

2164
01:25:04.439 --> 01:25:05.100
Really?

2165
01:25:05.159 --> 01:25:06.899
Yeah, I didn't realise that either.

2166
01:25:06.960 --> 01:25:10.800
Sorry, another nice note about Declan Melholland who, of course

2167
01:25:10.800 --> 01:25:12.479
passed away, I think, in the early 2000s.

2168
01:25:12.539 --> 01:25:18.960
The DVD mentions that any royalties he gets from DVD sales or TV

2169
01:25:18.960 --> 01:25:23.399
sales or anything like that actually go to a bursary funding the

2170
01:25:23.399 --> 01:25:24.479
education of young actors.

2171
01:25:24.539 --> 01:25:26.220
Oh, bless.

2172
01:25:26.279 --> 01:25:27.119
So he's rather wonderful.

2173
01:25:27.239 --> 01:25:33.000
And this is also a really, really good story for Pert Wheat, I

2174
01:25:33.000 --> 01:25:33.180
think.

2175
01:25:33.239 --> 01:25:36.779
Because, okay, we do have that incident with the sandwiches.

2176
01:25:36.840 --> 01:25:42.239
Yes, but also he's got those really rather wonderful gentle scenes

2177
01:25:42.239 --> 01:25:45.479
with the chief sea devil, where he actually tells off the chief

2178
01:25:45.479 --> 01:25:47.039
sea devil for running away underground.

2179
01:25:47.100 --> 01:25:50.579
When he's with the old Silurian in the Solurians.

2180
01:25:50.640 --> 01:25:52.439
There's no recrimination.

2181
01:25:52.500 --> 01:25:53.579
He's very, very gentle.

2182
01:25:53.640 --> 01:25:57.359
But here, his voice is very gentle, but he's saying things to the

2183
01:25:57.359 --> 01:25:57.960
sea devil.

2184
01:25:58.020 --> 01:26:01.140
Like, you abandoned this planet, and now you're turning up and

2185
01:26:01.140 --> 01:26:03.899
complaining because 1000000s of years later, someone else is

2186
01:26:03.899 --> 01:26:04.859
making use of it.

2187
01:26:04.920 --> 01:26:06.359
How about you share it?

2188
01:26:06.420 --> 01:26:11.460
You know, he doesn't kind of say that, oh, yes, you're absolutely

2189
01:26:11.460 --> 01:26:11.880
right.

2190
01:26:11.939 --> 01:26:13.199
He doesn't say you're absolutely wrong.

2191
01:26:13.260 --> 01:26:18.779
He says, look, you know, it's not as if you have been displaced.

2192
01:26:18.840 --> 01:26:21.420
You displaced yourselves, but let's try and find a peaceful

2193
01:26:21.420 --> 01:26:22.079
solution of this.

2194
01:26:22.140 --> 01:26:24.840
And when the master starts shouting, oh, no, he's your enemy.

2195
01:26:24.899 --> 01:26:26.939
The doctor just, no, I'm going to maintain my car.

2196
01:26:27.000 --> 01:26:28.319
I'm maintaining my adult voice.

2197
01:26:28.380 --> 01:26:29.340
He's being a child.

2198
01:26:29.399 --> 01:26:30.539
We're the adults here.

2199
01:26:30.600 --> 01:26:32.159
It nearly works. too, doesn't it?

2200
01:26:32.220 --> 01:26:34.020
The thing that stops it is that...

2201
01:26:34.020 --> 01:26:34.680
Bloody Walker.

2202
01:26:34.739 --> 01:26:36.000
Walker bombs them.

2203
01:26:36.000 --> 01:26:41.520
Yeah, and Walker is the example of what happens when the

2204
01:26:41.520 --> 01:26:43.680
bureaucrats are there and the doctor isn't.

2205
01:26:43.739 --> 01:26:47.699
In fact, the doctor, you know, has a perfect opportunity to be a

2206
01:26:47.699 --> 01:26:49.979
blustering, obnoxious fool with Walker.

2207
01:26:50.039 --> 01:26:52.800
And he has every reason to be, actually.

2208
01:26:52.859 --> 01:26:53.640
Do you know what I mean?

2209
01:26:53.699 --> 01:26:55.260
Because Walker does.

2210
01:26:55.319 --> 01:26:58.920
This is before the doctor meets him, that Walker bombs the sea

2211
01:26:58.920 --> 01:27:02.460
devil base and puts paid to the idea of peace.

2212
01:27:02.520 --> 01:27:05.699
But then he comes up and actually tries to persuade him.

2213
01:27:05.760 --> 01:27:09.000
You know, we saw last a couple of episodes of the podcast that

2214
01:27:09.000 --> 01:27:12.239
Pertwe would come in, be obnoxious, everyone will get their back

2215
01:27:12.239 --> 01:27:13.739
up and no one would help him.

2216
01:27:13.800 --> 01:27:20.699
But here he actually persuades and cajoles Walker into letting him

2217
01:27:20.699 --> 01:27:24.239
continue the peace process by saying, you know, wouldn't you like

2218
01:27:24.239 --> 01:27:26.699
to be called Walker the Peacemaker and all of that sort of thing

2219
01:27:26.699 --> 01:27:27.539
by flattering him?

2220
01:27:27.600 --> 01:27:30.600
And so the obnoxious thing has kind of gone away.

2221
01:27:30.659 --> 01:27:33.659
And he has some fun, doctor-ish moments again.

2222
01:27:33.720 --> 01:27:35.100
Like the sandwiches is fun.

2223
01:27:35.159 --> 01:27:39.600
He's in Trenchard's office blindfolded and he cuts a ball into a

2224
01:27:39.600 --> 01:27:42.779
glass, you know, when they're trapped on the fort and he turns the

2225
01:27:42.779 --> 01:27:47.159
transistor radio into a transmitter and it doesn't work and he

2226
01:27:47.159 --> 01:27:49.319
looks like a bit of an idiot and then it does work.

2227
01:27:49.380 --> 01:27:49.739
Yeah, exactly.

2228
01:27:49.739 --> 01:27:52.260
And then it blows up in his face, you know, and all of that.

2229
01:27:52.319 --> 01:27:54.180
And so he gets to be fun and silly.

2230
01:27:54.239 --> 01:27:55.859
Yeah, he gets to be fallible.

2231
01:27:56.039 --> 01:27:56.579
Yeah.

2232
01:27:56.579 --> 01:28:00.479
And also, that really extends to when the sea devil is trying to

2233
01:28:00.479 --> 01:28:01.560
break into the room on the fort.

2234
01:28:01.619 --> 01:28:05.159
He actually looks quite terrified by what's about to happen.

2235
01:28:05.220 --> 01:28:08.760
I know a criticism of him that you've laid, Nathan, is.

2236
01:28:08.819 --> 01:28:11.159
If the doctor's not scared, why should we be scared?

2237
01:28:11.220 --> 01:28:13.739
But in this, yeah, he's allowed to be scared.

2238
01:28:13.800 --> 01:28:15.840
He is allowed to be fallible and make mistakes.

2239
01:28:15.899 --> 01:28:18.539
He gets chained up and not for the 1st time.

2240
01:28:18.600 --> 01:28:19.500
Joe rescues him.

2241
01:28:19.560 --> 01:28:21.600
And I've been trying to do a count in my head.

2242
01:28:21.659 --> 01:28:23.520
So we've got terror of the Auto.

2243
01:28:23.640 --> 01:28:24.720
Joe rescues him.

2244
01:28:24.779 --> 01:28:28.260
Mind of Evil, Joe tries to break him out of the cell.

2245
01:28:28.319 --> 01:28:31.439
She thinks he's still unconscious, and she tries to get him out of

2246
01:28:31.439 --> 01:28:31.619
there.

2247
01:28:31.680 --> 01:28:35.579
Damons, of course, she tries to sacrifice himself, herself for him

2248
01:28:35.579 --> 01:28:39.060
this moment in sea devils, which is almost identical to the moment

2249
01:28:39.060 --> 01:28:40.319
in terror of the autons.

2250
01:28:40.380 --> 01:28:42.779
But instead of breaking a vase over someone's head, She actually

2251
01:28:42.779 --> 01:28:44.039
uses her brain a bit.

2252
01:28:44.100 --> 01:28:46.140
No, I'll get locked in with him.

2253
01:28:46.199 --> 01:28:48.539
That sequence is actually terribly enjoyable.

2254
01:28:48.600 --> 01:28:50.159
Yeah, the sign language.

2255
01:28:50.220 --> 01:28:53.819
It's like Donna and the doctor in partners in crime.

2256
01:28:53.880 --> 01:28:58.199
But she, the only reason that she's running free in the, in the

2257
01:28:58.199 --> 01:29:00.960
grounds of the prison is because Walsh watch...

2258
01:29:00.960 --> 01:29:02.760
She's punched terry in the face.

2259
01:29:02.819 --> 01:29:04.020
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2260
01:29:04.079 --> 01:29:05.819
In fact, she overcomes 2 guards.

2261
01:29:05.880 --> 01:29:08.039
Yeah, well, she...

2262
01:29:08.100 --> 01:29:11.399
Yeah, she throws Terry Walsh into Terry Walsh.

2263
01:29:12.000 --> 01:29:16.920
And yeah, there's...

2264
01:29:16.979 --> 01:29:18.779
Yeah, they did explode into a universe.

2265
01:29:18.779 --> 01:29:20.220
I think that it happened off screen.

2266
01:29:20.279 --> 01:29:23.100
Yeah, I mean, Joe's just basically pretty wonderful in this

2267
01:29:23.100 --> 01:29:23.399
story.

2268
01:29:23.460 --> 01:29:28.140
When they 1st meet Trenchard, Joe now realises that she's the one

2269
01:29:28.140 --> 01:29:29.520
who has to start the introductions.

2270
01:29:29.579 --> 01:29:32.880
Hello, I'm Joe. You know, I'm the charming one.

2271
01:29:32.939 --> 01:29:36.960
Hello. and and this is the doctor, you know, don't she's like, no

2272
01:29:36.960 --> 01:29:38.460
I'm not going to let him introduce himself else.

2273
01:29:38.520 --> 01:29:40.079
He'll just say, you're a dick.

2274
01:29:40.199 --> 01:29:41.819
You know, let's just get on.

2275
01:29:41.880 --> 01:29:45.119
Trenton sleazes on to her, really, revoltingly later on.

2276
01:29:45.180 --> 01:29:48.000
She deals with, like, she puts him in his place so well.

2277
01:29:48.060 --> 01:29:50.939
Like, he sleazes onto her in Captain Hart's office later and she

2278
01:29:50.939 --> 01:29:54.180
sort of extricates her hand and then he goes to give her a

2279
01:29:54.180 --> 01:29:57.000
handshake and she just not doing it.

2280
01:29:57.060 --> 01:29:59.640
Slapping him in the face would have been an even better.

2281
01:29:59.699 --> 01:30:02.699
But the cold rejection for someone like that who's so full of

2282
01:30:02.699 --> 01:30:04.680
himself is a really good tactic.

2283
01:30:04.739 --> 01:30:08.100
The other great thing about Joe is towards the end of the story

2284
01:30:08.100 --> 01:30:11.159
when he's going to go down to the sea devils for a 2nd time in the

2285
01:30:11.159 --> 01:30:13.920
diving bell, you know, she protests and she's like, no, you can't

2286
01:30:13.920 --> 01:30:14.159
do that.

2287
01:30:14.220 --> 01:30:15.539
Look at what happened last time.

2288
01:30:15.600 --> 01:30:17.399
And you almost got blown up.

2289
01:30:17.460 --> 01:30:19.020
Well, she objects the 1st time.

2290
01:30:19.079 --> 01:30:20.399
She says, do you really have to go down?

2291
01:30:20.460 --> 01:30:23.520
But the 2nd time is when she really says, no, no, no, you really

2292
01:30:23.520 --> 01:30:24.239
you can't.

2293
01:30:24.300 --> 01:30:28.859
But when he finally decides to and we see them walk out, she's

2294
01:30:28.859 --> 01:30:32.100
made her objection, but she is still going to stand by and well

2295
01:30:32.100 --> 01:30:32.520
she does it.

2296
01:30:32.579 --> 01:30:35.520
Yeah, it's the definition of friendship.

2297
01:30:35.579 --> 01:30:37.380
I don't agree with what you're going to do, but I'm still going to

2298
01:30:37.380 --> 01:30:38.220
support you in doing it.

2299
01:30:38.279 --> 01:30:40.979
Isn't that sequence so superb?

2300
01:30:41.100 --> 01:30:45.539
that the navy thing and all that navy hardware and stuff.

2301
01:30:45.600 --> 01:30:46.560
It's so fun.

2302
01:30:46.619 --> 01:30:48.600
That scene is really good.

2303
01:30:48.720 --> 01:30:50.039
And they're all real sailors.

2304
01:30:50.100 --> 01:30:54.359
Except for the admiral who's most in Evans, previously seen as the

2305
01:30:54.359 --> 01:30:55.979
puppet in colony in space.

2306
01:30:56.760 --> 01:30:57.119
Brilliant.

2307
01:30:57.180 --> 01:31:00.659
But as Barry Letts pointed out after the rushes were in, you do

2308
01:31:00.659 --> 01:31:04.079
realise that admirals are meant to have perfect eyesight and you

2309
01:31:04.079 --> 01:31:05.279
wouldn't be wearing glasses.

2310
01:31:05.340 --> 01:31:07.260
Apparently that's a thing.

2311
01:31:07.380 --> 01:31:07.800
Really?

2312
01:31:07.800 --> 01:31:08.399
It's a lesson.

2313
01:31:08.399 --> 01:31:09.659
They learned from Lord Nelson.

2314
01:31:09.779 --> 01:31:14.279
But yeah, Buckley Bryant's responsibility was, but he looked so

2315
01:31:14.279 --> 01:31:15.359
clever in his glasses.

2316
01:31:15.479 --> 01:31:20.100
And finally, you know, Joe really gives Walker a big telling off.

2317
01:31:20.159 --> 01:31:24.300
The doctor's attitude of pacifism and not blowing things up is

2318
01:31:24.300 --> 01:31:26.939
really rubbing off on her, but rather than take it out on the

2319
01:31:26.939 --> 01:31:29.340
doctor, which we saw didn't work out too well in the Damons, but

2320
01:31:29.340 --> 01:31:29.939
probably should have.

2321
01:31:30.000 --> 01:31:33.359
Yeah, instead, you know, she's directing at where it should be

2322
01:31:33.359 --> 01:31:36.779
directed and calling in a monster and a butcher and what have

2323
01:31:36.779 --> 01:31:36.960
you.

2324
01:31:37.020 --> 01:31:40.260
We see Walker eating all the time and we get those close-ups of

2325
01:31:40.260 --> 01:31:42.960
his mouth while he's eating and talking while he's eating.

2326
01:31:43.020 --> 01:31:48.000
He is constantly engaged in a destructive act. in a very sensual

2327
01:31:48.000 --> 01:31:50.579
carnal, destructive act.

2328
01:31:51.000 --> 01:31:55.380
Sandifer tries to say that that part of the story is almost being

2329
01:31:55.380 --> 01:31:58.800
told from the sea devil's point of view is if we're looking at

2330
01:31:58.800 --> 01:31:58.979
it.

2331
01:31:58.979 --> 01:32:01.979
Well, that's where the doctor is, like an animal sort of thing.

2332
01:32:01.979 --> 01:32:04.800
He's sort of chewing his way through sandwiches.

2333
01:32:04.859 --> 01:32:08.460
Yeah, it's kind of reaching a little bit to find any real politics

2334
01:32:08.460 --> 01:32:09.539
here though, isn't it?

2335
01:32:09.600 --> 01:32:10.140
You know what I say?

2336
01:32:10.140 --> 01:32:11.340
No, it's a recruitment.

2337
01:32:11.340 --> 01:32:12.539
For the Navy.

2338
01:32:12.600 --> 01:32:12.960
Yeah.

2339
01:32:12.960 --> 01:32:17.039
Because the, you know, the sign, it's also anti-colonial.

2340
01:32:17.100 --> 01:32:21.239
The fact that the master turns up really just turns it into a sort

2341
01:32:21.239 --> 01:32:23.880
of, you know, a cartoonish kind of thing.

2342
01:32:23.939 --> 01:32:25.439
And that's not a criticism.

2343
01:32:25.500 --> 01:32:28.859
The Silurians attempted, I think, to have something about

2344
01:32:28.859 --> 01:32:30.840
colonialism and something about immigration.

2345
01:32:30.899 --> 01:32:34.020
But I think I argued at the time. that it was undermined by the

2346
01:32:34.020 --> 01:32:37.439
fact that the Silurians killed the only sympathetic side you were

2347
01:32:37.439 --> 01:32:41.159
in in the entire colony and just went out and tried to be terribly

2348
01:32:41.159 --> 01:32:41.460
evil.

2349
01:32:41.520 --> 01:32:43.199
Here, you don't even get that.

2350
01:32:43.260 --> 01:32:44.159
Do you know what I mean?

2351
01:32:44.220 --> 01:32:46.140
Yeah, there's no manipulating them.

2352
01:32:46.199 --> 01:32:48.720
And there's no discussion between the Solurians.

2353
01:32:48.779 --> 01:32:51.060
There's the chief solar in. the only one with any character.

2354
01:32:51.180 --> 01:32:52.500
The sea devil.

2355
01:32:52.560 --> 01:32:53.880
Sorry, the chief sea devil.

2356
01:32:53.939 --> 01:32:55.680
He's the only one with any character, yeah.

2357
01:32:55.739 --> 01:32:58.319
Yeah, well, it's actually, you know, apart from the noble

2358
01:32:58.319 --> 01:33:00.000
personnel that are closest to the doctor.

2359
01:33:00.060 --> 01:33:02.279
They're the most sympathetic, the only sympathetic characters

2360
01:33:02.279 --> 01:33:04.020
outside of their team.

2361
01:33:04.079 --> 01:33:07.979
And there seems to be that whole kind of the Jacques Cristeau

2362
01:33:07.979 --> 01:33:11.159
documentaries that were really big in the early 70s when we got

2363
01:33:11.159 --> 01:33:14.340
colour TV, the undersea thing was on every almost every week.

2364
01:33:14.399 --> 01:33:16.199
You know, there was a new respect.

2365
01:33:16.260 --> 01:33:17.699
It wasn't just something to be exploited.

2366
01:33:17.760 --> 01:33:19.920
It was a wonderful place that we were only starting to learn

2367
01:33:19.920 --> 01:33:20.279
about.

2368
01:33:20.340 --> 01:33:23.159
I think that, you know, it's considering also it's Mac Hock.

2369
01:33:23.220 --> 01:33:25.739
And he had been a member of the Communist Party and he certainly

2370
01:33:25.739 --> 01:33:28.680
was still very much a humanist and believed in the rights of the

2371
01:33:28.680 --> 01:33:30.659
underprivileged and the underdogs. generally.

2372
01:33:30.720 --> 01:33:33.539
And yeah, I think that the sea devils, certainly.

2373
01:33:33.539 --> 01:33:37.979
There's that wonderful scene that almost wants a member of, oh

2374
01:33:37.979 --> 01:33:40.680
you're being served to be doing the voice for the sea devil when

2375
01:33:40.680 --> 01:33:46.199
he's on the on board the submarine and they're standing around as

2376
01:33:46.199 --> 01:33:48.239
if they're playing Ludo.

2377
01:33:48.300 --> 01:33:50.880
And it's just so silly and so funny.

2378
01:33:50.939 --> 01:33:54.180
It's the sea devil's world and we're looking out from in their

2379
01:33:54.180 --> 01:33:54.479
world.

2380
01:33:54.539 --> 01:33:59.340
I think I mean, I think this is Hulk's least political script.

2381
01:33:59.460 --> 01:34:02.819
Yeah, it is the most action adventure one. exactly.

2382
01:34:02.880 --> 01:34:06.779
And it has a lot of hardware and lots of great locations and stuff

2383
01:34:06.779 --> 01:34:07.619
stacks of filming.

2384
01:34:07.680 --> 01:34:11.399
And so it is really terrifically enjoyable to watch, but it's not

2385
01:34:11.399 --> 01:34:14.939
exactly the sort of thing that Matt Hulk will do kind of

2386
01:34:14.939 --> 01:34:15.420
normally.

2387
01:34:15.479 --> 01:34:19.439
I think it's all the more effective for that. because he is such

2388
01:34:19.439 --> 01:34:23.760
an intelligent writer, we do get an action adventure story, but we

2389
01:34:23.760 --> 01:34:25.979
get an action adventure story with a lot of brains as well.

2390
01:34:26.039 --> 01:34:28.920
Yeah, yeah, that's which I think is really effective.

2391
01:34:29.039 --> 01:34:30.960
In terms of the characters.

2392
01:34:31.020 --> 01:34:32.699
I would just like to talk about the master for a second.

2393
01:34:32.760 --> 01:34:36.000
He spends the 1st half of the story, having a wow of a time.

2394
01:34:36.060 --> 01:34:39.420
Yes, he's in prison, but because he's taken over the prison.

2395
01:34:39.479 --> 01:34:42.779
He just has a staff at his beck and call.

2396
01:34:42.840 --> 01:34:44.220
He's the lord of the castle.

2397
01:34:44.279 --> 01:34:45.479
He really is.

2398
01:34:45.539 --> 01:34:47.760
He's very much Bezel Rathbone in this one.

2399
01:34:47.819 --> 01:34:50.220
We haven't seen him for a while, so they're giving him a big.

2400
01:34:50.939 --> 01:34:51.300
Yeah, yeah.

2401
01:34:51.359 --> 01:34:52.020
Oh, it's great.

2402
01:34:52.079 --> 01:34:52.979
Yeah, big comeback.

2403
01:34:53.039 --> 01:34:55.979
Yeah, and he gets who all the masterly things except shrink

2404
01:34:55.979 --> 01:34:56.279
people.

2405
01:34:56.340 --> 01:34:57.840
You know, he gets to hold a gun.

2406
01:34:57.899 --> 01:34:59.579
He gets to throw knives and have a sword fight.

2407
01:34:59.640 --> 01:35:01.020
He gets to dress up in disguise.

2408
01:35:01.079 --> 01:35:02.640
He gets to do electronic things.

2409
01:35:02.699 --> 01:35:06.000
He gets to lie to people, he gets to hypnotise people.

2410
01:35:06.000 --> 01:35:07.739
There's that wonderful scene, of course.

2411
01:35:07.800 --> 01:35:09.060
We know it's subterfuge.

2412
01:35:09.119 --> 01:35:12.119
But he tries to hypnotise the garden, the girl just says, let me

2413
01:35:12.119 --> 01:35:14.279
know when you finish with your book and walks in.

2414
01:35:14.279 --> 01:35:16.859
And Delgado's reaction to that is perfect.

2415
01:35:16.920 --> 01:35:20.100
Where it all falls down, of course, is where it always falls down

2416
01:35:20.100 --> 01:35:22.800
for the master in that the master's whole storyline in this can be

2417
01:35:22.800 --> 01:35:27.600
summed up as the master turns to the doctor for help again, and

2418
01:35:27.600 --> 01:35:31.199
the doctor tricks him again, and the master doesn't realise the

2419
01:35:31.199 --> 01:35:33.899
doctor's tricked him until the doctor explains that he's tricked

2420
01:35:33.899 --> 01:35:34.800
him again.

2421
01:35:34.859 --> 01:35:38.939
And the sea devils betray the master and bless him, he's really

2422
01:35:38.939 --> 01:35:39.479
surprised.

2423
01:35:39.539 --> 01:35:40.619
I know.

2424
01:35:40.680 --> 01:35:44.220
Who would have thought of the autons and Nazal, and, you know

2425
01:35:44.220 --> 01:35:47.340
literally every other alien he's ever brought to earth.

2426
01:35:47.939 --> 01:35:49.680
How cute.

2427
01:35:49.739 --> 01:35:54.180
Oh, yeah, you kind of start to feel sorry for him because

2428
01:35:54.180 --> 01:35:56.880
underneath it all, he seems to have a really great sense of fair

2429
01:35:56.880 --> 01:36:00.239
play, but he wants everyone to play fair by him, but he doesn't

2430
01:36:00.239 --> 01:36:01.680
get to play fair by everyone else.

2431
01:36:01.739 --> 01:36:05.880
You know, he's like a little boy who, you know, in one of those

2432
01:36:05.880 --> 01:36:09.420
made up games, like tag or something where this is safe and this

2433
01:36:09.420 --> 01:36:11.520
is, you know, he's declaring everything safe, but, you know

2434
01:36:11.520 --> 01:36:12.479
someone can still tackle you.

2435
01:36:12.539 --> 01:36:14.220
It doesn't matter if you say that's safe.

2436
01:36:14.819 --> 01:36:18.060
He's very well prepared in this story, I think.

2437
01:36:18.180 --> 01:36:21.119
And I think that's an impressive take home lesson.

2438
01:36:21.180 --> 01:36:23.819
So he and the doctor escape.

2439
01:36:23.880 --> 01:36:27.000
They're floating, you know, up from the Siberian base and they're

2440
01:36:27.000 --> 01:36:30.840
rescued and he fakes a heart attack and he happens to have a

2441
01:36:30.840 --> 01:36:34.680
master mask on him at the time.

2442
01:36:34.739 --> 01:36:38.819
And so he's able to put the mastermask on the sort of ambulance

2443
01:36:38.819 --> 01:36:39.180
guy.

2444
01:36:39.239 --> 01:36:42.720
He escapes in the hovercraft and the mastermask is on the

2445
01:36:42.720 --> 01:36:44.220
ambulance guy and they take it off.

2446
01:36:44.279 --> 01:36:48.420
So I've got a mastermask on me right now, actually, just in case

2447
01:36:48.420 --> 01:36:51.180
sort of something similar occurs to me on the way home from here.

2448
01:36:51.239 --> 01:36:53.100
It's the last time we see them, isn't it?

2449
01:36:53.159 --> 01:36:54.420
The mastermask.

2450
01:36:54.479 --> 01:36:55.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2451
01:36:55.680 --> 01:36:56.340
Yeah, I think it is.

2452
01:36:56.399 --> 01:36:59.100
The hovercraft, the boats, the little ski-doos.

2453
01:36:59.159 --> 01:36:59.819
They're all wonderful.

2454
01:36:59.880 --> 01:37:02.939
Well, they did create some problems on production, though.

2455
01:37:03.000 --> 01:37:05.340
They were meant to have a helicopter, but they ended up with her.

2456
01:37:05.399 --> 01:37:08.159
You know, you're talking about the moment where Katie was having

2457
01:37:08.159 --> 01:37:09.539
to drive the hovercraft.

2458
01:37:09.600 --> 01:37:10.260
Well, that's one moment.

2459
01:37:10.319 --> 01:37:10.920
Do you want to tell it?

2460
01:37:10.979 --> 01:37:13.680
Oh, it was just, you know, being Katie, she pressed the wrong

2461
01:37:13.680 --> 01:37:17.399
button and the starboard skirt deflated and a dozen sailors fell

2462
01:37:17.399 --> 01:37:19.619
on top of the dot com.

2463
01:37:21.000 --> 01:37:23.399
Well, why do you think I?

2464
01:37:23.399 --> 01:37:25.140
Why do you think I dress up as Katie Manley?

2465
01:37:25.199 --> 01:37:26.579
I wanted to be Katie Manic.

2466
01:37:26.640 --> 01:37:28.979
The other thing that happened, of course, was you had those little

2467
01:37:28.979 --> 01:37:32.939
sort of jet ski things that the doctor chases the master on.

2468
01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:36.600
And of course, the master in that shot is Derek Ware because Roger

2469
01:37:36.600 --> 01:37:38.819
had terrible sea legs.

2470
01:37:38.880 --> 01:37:41.100
Well, like me, Roger Delgado couldn't swim.

2471
01:37:41.159 --> 01:37:43.500
And so was terrified of the open water.

2472
01:37:43.560 --> 01:37:45.359
It is him floating around at the end.

2473
01:37:45.420 --> 01:37:46.380
I know.

2474
01:37:46.439 --> 01:37:49.800
It is him floating around at the end and apparently it took 20

2475
01:37:49.800 --> 01:37:52.140
minutes to coax him into the water and just as he was about to get

2476
01:37:52.140 --> 01:37:52.380
in.

2477
01:37:52.619 --> 01:37:53.819
Should have just pushed him into it.

2478
01:37:53.880 --> 01:37:54.539
That would have done it.

2479
01:37:54.600 --> 01:37:57.000
Like John was already in the water saying, look, Roger, it's

2480
01:37:57.000 --> 01:37:57.180
fine.

2481
01:37:57.239 --> 01:37:58.319
Come into the wall.

2482
01:37:58.380 --> 01:37:58.920
Come into the water.

2483
01:37:58.979 --> 01:37:59.819
It's lovely.

2484
01:37:59.819 --> 01:38:00.840
I mean, did you water?

2485
01:38:00.899 --> 01:38:02.279
Apparently, just as he was getting in.

2486
01:38:02.340 --> 01:38:04.859
A member of the crew said, oh, finally.

2487
01:38:04.920 --> 01:38:09.720
And John lost his nut and just said, sort of, like right there and

2488
01:38:09.720 --> 01:38:09.899
then.

2489
01:38:09.960 --> 01:38:11.399
How dare you?

2490
01:38:11.520 --> 01:38:14.939
How dare you criticise an actor for preparing his performance

2491
01:38:14.939 --> 01:38:15.359
loan?

2492
01:38:15.359 --> 01:38:17.640
And then went up to Barry Later and said, we are not working with

2493
01:38:17.640 --> 01:38:19.500
this person. do you know what he did to Roger?

2494
01:38:19.560 --> 01:38:20.760
Barry's a bit, yeah.

2495
01:38:20.760 --> 01:38:21.600
What did Barry say?

2496
01:38:21.659 --> 01:38:25.199
I don't know I don't know what Barry said, but yeah, John John was

2497
01:38:25.199 --> 01:38:26.760
one, you don't do that to an actor two.

2498
01:38:26.819 --> 01:38:30.239
You don't do that to my friend, who is, I was just coming to be a

2499
01:38:30.239 --> 01:38:31.199
child. you know who I am?

2500
01:38:31.260 --> 01:38:33.000
But anyway, the jet skis.

2501
01:38:33.180 --> 01:38:37.500
Of course, filming takes a long time to set up.

2502
01:38:37.560 --> 01:38:39.539
John and Katie had nothing to do.

2503
01:38:39.600 --> 01:38:42.060
There are 2 jet skis sitting there.

2504
01:38:42.119 --> 01:38:43.260
Where is this story going?

2505
01:38:43.319 --> 01:38:47.039
This is going into John and Katie in the next few scenes.

2506
01:38:47.100 --> 01:38:48.720
They were going to be soaked down anyway.

2507
01:38:48.779 --> 01:38:52.500
So in full costume, jumped on the 2 jet skis and we're chasing

2508
01:38:52.500 --> 01:38:53.100
each other around.

2509
01:38:53.159 --> 01:38:55.020
I forgot that on film.

2510
01:38:55.079 --> 01:38:59.159
The problem being, Katie's flares shrunk.

2511
01:38:59.220 --> 01:39:02.460
They shrunk around the waist so the zipper couldn't be done up and

2512
01:39:02.460 --> 01:39:04.439
they rode up about 4 inches.

2513
01:39:04.500 --> 01:39:08.100
She had a spare pair, which they used for the ab sailing scene the

2514
01:39:08.100 --> 01:39:09.659
next day, which tour.

2515
01:39:09.720 --> 01:39:14.279
So Katie's trousers are about 4 inches longer on location than

2516
01:39:14.279 --> 01:39:17.939
they were in the studio. which means in the studio, her jumper is

2517
01:39:17.939 --> 01:39:18.720
untucked.

2518
01:39:18.720 --> 01:39:21.239
On location, her jumper is tucked in.

2519
01:39:21.300 --> 01:39:25.500
It is also why in the studio we get so many shots of Katie's bum.

2520
01:39:25.560 --> 01:39:31.619
Because if there was a if there was a shot, if there was a shot of

2521
01:39:31.619 --> 01:39:34.260
her metre, if i.e. when she's going up into the roof and she was

2522
01:39:34.260 --> 01:39:36.720
facing the camera. the fly was constantly busting.

2523
01:39:37.260 --> 01:39:40.020
This is how she tells the story.

2524
01:39:40.079 --> 01:39:44.579
Well, actually, in the in the doctor prison break scene, after

2525
01:39:44.579 --> 01:39:48.000
she's down on the floor, when she gets up, as she goes to the door

2526
01:39:48.000 --> 01:39:49.079
you see her doing up her flight.

2527
01:39:49.500 --> 01:39:51.239
What do you have borrowed?

2528
01:39:51.239 --> 01:39:53.100
Stuart Fowls out, family?

2529
01:39:53.159 --> 01:39:54.600
Well, that was one of the spares.

2530
01:39:54.659 --> 01:39:55.140
Oh, okay.

2531
01:39:55.140 --> 01:39:58.079
So he didn't take it home with him, right?

2532
01:39:58.439 --> 01:39:59.399
No, no.

2533
01:39:59.460 --> 01:40:00.600
No, he took the wig.

2534
01:40:00.659 --> 01:40:01.619
He took the wig home.

2535
01:40:01.680 --> 01:40:04.859
But continuing on the behind the scenes.

2536
01:40:04.920 --> 01:40:06.479
God, I love Michael Bryant's direction.

2537
01:40:06.539 --> 01:40:09.420
Yeah, it's a lot of work, friends.

2538
01:40:09.479 --> 01:40:11.399
Do you have a lot of crazy camera angles and stuff?

2539
01:40:11.460 --> 01:40:15.119
There's lots of crazy camera angles, but also he uses triangles a

2540
01:40:15.119 --> 01:40:16.199
lot in his geometry.

2541
01:40:16.260 --> 01:40:18.420
He'll have a figure standing in the foreground and another figure

2542
01:40:18.420 --> 01:40:19.319
sitting in the background.

2543
01:40:19.380 --> 01:40:22.199
So you have the foreground figures head, the foreground figures

2544
01:40:22.199 --> 01:40:26.340
waist, and the figure in the background's head as your triangle.

2545
01:40:26.399 --> 01:40:28.319
And Katie's bum in the making.

2546
01:40:28.380 --> 01:40:29.460
And Katie's bum, of course.

2547
01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:34.079
I believe all the angles add up to 180 degrees on Katie's butt.

2548
01:40:34.859 --> 01:40:41.520
When John and Roger are in scenes together, if there is a shot of

2549
01:40:41.520 --> 01:40:44.100
John, there is a negative space in the shot.

2550
01:40:44.159 --> 01:40:46.560
And then in the next shot of Roger, Roger's in the negative space

2551
01:40:46.560 --> 01:40:49.319
and there's and there's negative space in his shot, they're

2552
01:40:49.319 --> 01:40:51.600
completing each other's shots, they're yin and yang.

2553
01:40:51.659 --> 01:40:54.119
Michael Lee Bryant is very, very clever.

2554
01:40:54.180 --> 01:40:57.300
But you notice it most in the beginning of episode 3 after the

2555
01:40:57.300 --> 01:41:01.140
doctor and the master have had their big sword fight and Trenchard

2556
01:41:01.140 --> 01:41:04.560
catches them and takes the doctor prisoner and lie, da, da, da.

2557
01:41:04.619 --> 01:41:07.319
Whenever the doctor and the master are talking, there's almost no

2558
01:41:07.319 --> 01:41:07.920
one else in the shop.

2559
01:41:07.979 --> 01:41:11.340
There's lots of negative space and they're cutting back and forth

2560
01:41:11.340 --> 01:41:12.659
between the doctor and the master.

2561
01:41:12.720 --> 01:41:16.439
Now that is a standard of visual filmmaking, but it's a standard

2562
01:41:16.439 --> 01:41:19.199
to imply that these 2 characters are very deeply connected.

2563
01:41:19.260 --> 01:41:24.000
And I don't recall seeing another director previously in a story

2564
01:41:24.000 --> 01:41:24.479
do that.

2565
01:41:24.600 --> 01:41:27.060
I think Mike Lee Bryant's terribly clever.

2566
01:41:27.180 --> 01:41:32.159
So just before we move on, there's a continuation to something we

2567
01:41:32.159 --> 01:41:33.899
were talking about earlier and there's an end to something as

2568
01:41:33.899 --> 01:41:34.140
well.

2569
01:41:34.199 --> 01:41:36.720
So for the continuation, Nathan, what do we see in this story that

2570
01:41:36.720 --> 01:41:38.039
we've seen in several previous stories?

2571
01:41:38.159 --> 01:41:38.760
All right.

2572
01:41:38.819 --> 01:41:43.260
Well, a couple of episodes ago, Todd, listed every gurning

2573
01:41:43.260 --> 01:41:46.859
instance in the pertwe era up until that point.

2574
01:41:46.920 --> 01:41:52.260
And it turns out he'd gurned at least once per story up until, I

2575
01:41:52.260 --> 01:41:54.539
can't remember exactly when, but certainly midway through sort of

2576
01:41:54.539 --> 01:41:55.079
season eight.

2577
01:41:55.199 --> 01:41:58.979
Here he gets captured in at the end of episode 5 of the episode 5

2578
01:41:58.979 --> 01:42:02.340
Cliffhanger, he gets captured by a sea devil and does some real

2579
01:42:02.340 --> 01:42:03.359
quality gurney.

2580
01:42:03.420 --> 01:42:06.960
So I thought I'd mention that for as a little shout out to Todd.

2581
01:42:07.020 --> 01:42:07.739
Yeah, yeah.

2582
01:42:07.800 --> 01:42:11.520
And also, sadly with this story, we say goodbye to Havoc.

2583
01:42:11.579 --> 01:42:14.159
This is the last story with action by havoc.

2584
01:42:14.220 --> 01:42:18.479
The sea devils, Stuart fell flipping along the beach, which the

2585
01:42:18.479 --> 01:42:21.000
other Stantartists apparently didn't approve of because the BBC

2586
01:42:21.000 --> 01:42:22.199
should only get what they paid for.

2587
01:42:22.260 --> 01:42:24.239
They're not paying for Flit Stewart. dont do any flips.

2588
01:42:24.300 --> 01:42:28.619
This is the last story that havoc is build on. shall we say?

2589
01:42:28.739 --> 01:42:29.220
Yeah.

2590
01:42:29.279 --> 01:42:32.939
And it's the only story in which the doctor says reverse the

2591
01:42:32.939 --> 01:42:34.319
polarity of the neutron flow.

2592
01:42:34.439 --> 01:42:34.979
Indeed.

2593
01:42:34.979 --> 01:42:37.859
Although in Time Monster, we get a lot of variations on that

2594
01:42:37.859 --> 01:42:38.159
theme.

2595
01:42:38.220 --> 01:42:39.300
Oh, yeah, yeah, it does.

2596
01:42:39.359 --> 01:42:41.699
There are variations of it, but it doesn't actually occur again

2597
01:42:41.699 --> 01:42:44.640
until the 5 doctors in its, you know, glorious entirety.

2598
01:42:54.359 --> 01:42:58.739
What a perfect time to say that our next episode, out in two weeks

2599
01:42:58.739 --> 01:43:03.000
will be focussing on the mutants and the Time Monster.

2600
01:43:03.479 --> 01:43:07.739
Please don't forget that you can comment on our website for a

2601
01:43:07.739 --> 01:43:11.460
chance to win a target novelisation from a selection we still have

2602
01:43:11.460 --> 01:43:11.819
available.

2603
01:43:11.880 --> 01:43:13.859
Of only these 5 stories.

2604
01:43:14.039 --> 01:43:15.899
Only these photos.

2605
01:43:15.960 --> 01:43:19.560
Also, we do have a presence on Facebook, just search for this

2606
01:43:19.560 --> 01:43:22.979
flight through entirety, and Twitter, FTE podcast.

2607
01:43:23.039 --> 01:43:26.159
There are also some changes to the website incoming.

2608
01:43:26.220 --> 01:43:28.500
So if you are new to our podcast, Welcome.

2609
01:43:28.560 --> 01:43:32.399
We will be introducing some pages before our next episode.

2610
01:43:32.460 --> 01:43:35.100
We'll be listing each episode of the podcast along with the

2611
01:43:35.100 --> 01:43:38.279
stories covered in them and separated out by doctor as well

2612
01:43:38.279 --> 01:43:41.819
because this is, gentlemen, our 25th episode.

2613
01:43:41.939 --> 01:43:43.199
Hurrah.

2614
01:43:43.260 --> 01:43:45.659
Well, I should say the nemesis of episodes.

2615
01:43:45.720 --> 01:43:48.779
Actually, I should say, there's a lovely portrait of you just as

2616
01:43:48.779 --> 01:43:50.579
Madame Poppadour.

2617
01:43:50.699 --> 01:43:53.100
Yeah, yeah, they actually use that at the beginning of every

2618
01:43:53.100 --> 01:43:55.739
Gainsborough picture in the 30s and 40s.

2619
01:43:55.859 --> 01:43:57.420
Of you, just to Stuart Phil.

2620
01:43:57.479 --> 01:43:58.739
Yeah, yeah, it's lovely.

2621
01:43:58.800 --> 01:43:59.460
Yeah.

2622
01:43:59.520 --> 01:44:04.439
And until next time where I will be dressed in a brown and yellow

2623
01:44:04.439 --> 01:44:08.159
knitted ensemble or is it blue and white?

2624
01:44:08.279 --> 01:44:08.760
I'm not sure.

2625
01:44:08.819 --> 01:44:09.479
Good night.

2626
01:44:09.539 --> 01:44:10.739
Good night.

2627
01:44:10.800 --> 01:44:11.760
And thank you.

2628
01:44:14.819 --> 01:44:17.579
You have been listening to Flight Through Entirety with Nathan

2629
01:44:17.579 --> 01:44:19.800
Bottomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone.

2630
01:44:19.859 --> 01:44:24.420
This episode, a Hessian Sack full of candy canes, was recorded on

2631
01:44:24.420 --> 01:44:25.439
Sunday, March the 8th.

2632
01:44:25.500 --> 01:44:28.439
The next episode will be released on March the 29th.

2633
01:44:28.560 --> 01:44:32.279
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go make 7000 sandwiches.

2634
01:44:32.340 --> 01:44:33.539
Herclees coming over.

2635
01:44:39.600 --> 01:44:41.520
Oh, yeah, we're not starting yet.

2636
01:44:41.579 --> 01:44:41.939
Okay.

2637
01:44:42.000 --> 01:44:45.659
Now, yours may pop off, so just keep an eye, keep an eye on that.

2638
01:44:46.979 --> 01:44:49.020
I may position it.

2639
01:44:49.079 --> 01:44:51.840
A little further up, just because...

2640
01:44:51.840 --> 01:44:52.920
Just clamp it onto his nipple.

2641
01:44:52.979 --> 01:44:54.840
Yeah, that's better folds. not very big.

2642
01:44:54.899 --> 01:44:55.380
Okay.

2643
01:44:55.439 --> 01:44:56.220
Where is he?