WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:54:07

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight for Entirety, the

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only Doctor Who podcast that really needs to get out of here in

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about half an hour, my wife and kids are waiting for me in the car

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outside.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Peter, not Davidson.

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I'm Simon.

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And I'm not Brendan nor James under sheets for this one.

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Well, as you heard a couple of days ago, the 50th anniversary

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special was completely ruined for all of us by the utterly

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disrespectful omission of Janet Fieldingers Tegan Javanka.

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So let's see if we can salvage some satisfaction from this

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terrible day as we press the red button and see what happens in

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the five-ish doctors reboot.

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So, I have to confess to being a little bit disappointed by Peter

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Davidson in this one, because I thought he was really cool and

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didn't kind of give a crap, and this can only be written by

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someone with a desperately upsettingly encyclopaedic knowledge of

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the entire history of Doctor Who.

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I think he had help on that front.

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But what it does show is he has, whatever he might pretend, he

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actually has incredible affection for the program and incredible

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affection for the fans as well.

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And this is also so Peter Davidson flavoured because not only is

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he a very Ryan sardonic person, but his doctor was Ryan sardonic

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and he's just channelled all of that into this and the entire

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thing, is an exercise in Rhinus and Sardoni.

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But he's also, though, so happy to take the piss out of himself.

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And I think that shows his true worth.

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Yeah, in fact, that actually kind of happens to everyone.

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I mean, there's that scene where Colin Baker locks. his entire

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family into the house to watch vengeance on Barrel.

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Hey, we've all been there. such a bad story.

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No.

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But Sylvester's terrifically pathetic as well in a totally

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different way.

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Yeah.

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And like no one comes off as being good except possibly Paul

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McCann.

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Yeah, they're all happy to portray themselves as washed up has

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been, who were in this kind of crappy program 30 or 40 years ago

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which wasn't actually that good. you know what I mean?

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It's the part they were born to play.

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Exactly.

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It is the Armando Ionucci episode of Doctor Who, even though it's

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sitting out on the fringe, but it does feel like 90s review.

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And again, that's kind of sweet because that's already 30 years

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ago.

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So it honestly feels like the comedic conventions.

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Has anyone said tropes this episode yet?

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No, but it's had a bit of a run this year.

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Has it?

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It's a bit of a revival.

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Well, it's a sticky trope in that case.

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Yeah, it does.

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It definitely, the whole comedic style of it also feels outmoded

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and outdated, and I think that adds to its watchability.

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We also have to say, isn't it significant for the last time we get

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to see Mr. Barrowman?

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No.

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Oh no, that's right.

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He comes back later before he...

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Yeah, twice.

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Before he's cancelled twice.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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That's the highlight of the episode for me.

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Well, it's also one of the very last things to be filmed in the

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BBC television centre.

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We said that earlier this week with adventure in space and time

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time and space.

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Right.

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But this also has a scene in the BBC television centre, which is

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where Pete oddly thinks Doctor Who is still being made.

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Well, they just kind of outside.

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No, I mean, he actually goes in there, remember, and meets Matt

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and Jenna in a dream sequence.

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Oh yes, yes, yes.

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You are my mother's favourite doctor.

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Look away, look back.

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You are my favourite.

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So lovely.

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I really wanted William Russell in that uniform to tell them to

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sod off out of the car. as William Russell, who's had no other gig

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for 50 years.

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I think would have been great.

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Yeah.

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So everyone is back.

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Like everyone who is still alive basically is bad.

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And he's basically living in the country, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And what, like what I think about it is that this week has been

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very generous to all of the doctors, I think there was literally

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no prospect of any of the classic series doctors appearing. we ask

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Colin that?

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Well, I mean, but the thing is that they don't look anything like

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maybe Sylvester.

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They don't look like they did on the show.

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Very, very few of the people know who they are.

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And if they do know who they are, that's down to Stephen Moffat, I

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think.

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Well, they know who they are if it's Tom Baker.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I don't think there was any ever any actual prospect of the old

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ones appearing in the special. certainly not at least as the

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doctors.

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Maybe it's a Tom style cameo.

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And you'd think there would be more chance because it's now shot

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in widescreen rather than four?

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Yes, and there's more of them, he said. sweeping that into the

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corner.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Colin actually, you know, play

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true to type in this one?

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Okay.

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So I quite like this but I don't love it.

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Yeah.

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And the reason is that I don't think Colin is that in on the

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joke.

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I know that he is on a surface level, but when I was saying

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earlier that this is Peter Davidson flavoured, Peter Davidson's

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like that, Peter Davidson has a very healthy relationship with

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Doctor Who in that he is just the right amount of attached to it

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but also consciously uncoupled from it.

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Whereas Doctor Who is the highlight of Colin's career and the

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circumstances under which he left were obviously quite raw and

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painful and still are raw and painful to him, quite obviously.

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And so having him depicted as someone who basically has nothing

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better to do than sit around watching and waiting for, um, with

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great joy, the delivery of vengeance on Varus, the special edition

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and then being desperate to get into the 50th anniversary episode

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when we know that he actually did want to be in it and was quite

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hurt when Tom was the only one who was in it rather than any of

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the others, is just a bit close to the bone for me.

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Yeah, I think, look, I think that's probably fair, but I do think

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that Pete gives himself enough of that sort of material as well

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and he seems to be the ringleader of the whole protest.

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He's the one who's standing outside television centre with a big

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sign.

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They're just sitting there with coffees.

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Yeah, they actually think he's a bit of an idiot.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And he is also depicted, you know, talking to his kids about how

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there's little prospect of him being in the anniversary special

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and having them just not care.

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Having them only interested in the new series.

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Yeah, yeah. which I think is pretty great.

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Yeah, I disagree with you, Peter.

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I think that Colin is on the joke.

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I think you can have, I think you can have both things.

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Both things are true.

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Yes, he was very hurt that they weren't in the 50th and there

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wasn't a way for it to work.

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But at the same time, I think he's more than capable of taking the

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piss out of himself in that way.

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I mean, locking the family in the home to watch Venice Vara

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special edition.

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I mean that is deliberately saying, yes, I know what I'm like.

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You know what I mean?

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And you're right.

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Pete gets most of the kind of stupidity part of it, especially

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when they're at the exhibition and he actually gets them all to go

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into the police box.

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It seems oddly surprised.

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But it's not the TARDIS.

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And Collin says, really?

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So I think you're probably reading something into it, which I

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don't think is there.

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No, absolutely.

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And it's about my relationship to the new series in the old series

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as well.

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Like, um, I wasn't quite on board with the fact that in the early

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years of New Doctor Who, a lot of the classic doctors and

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companions would go around bagging the old series in comparison.

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It looks so good now.

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They've got so much money.

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Russell's writing and it's brilliant, and by implication, the old

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series was ridiculous and low budget and not worth worrying over.

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Whereas actually, I'm more of a fan of the old series and I think

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it has its own strength.

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And so something like this, while I entirely get the joke, and I

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really love Peter Davison's sense of humour about it.

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It's a little more uncomfortable for me because I don't like to

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see the old series being mocked in comparison.

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Yeah, it turns out that the new series is often low budget and...

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But that's interesting because I don't I just don't get that tone

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from it.

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Yes, it's taking the piss, but it's taking the piss in such an

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affectionate way.

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Oh yeah, definitely.

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Do you remember the bit where they head into the studios for the

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recording and outside?

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It's all incidental music from the opera?

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And when they go inside, the incidental music is from Rings of

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Acas.

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And like they keep going back and forth.

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And it's the old, it's the old multi-fart, the Jack, they're on

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film.

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It's even it's even better than that because going back to what

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you were saying, Simon, the music from outside is the caves of

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Andrazani.

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Oh, my goodness, from inside.

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Oh, that's the rings of Adam.

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That's even better.

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Did anyone else come away from this just for the, I really want

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Pete to write an episode or direct an episode or just be...

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If only had in the old days, it would have been great.

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I think definitely if he'd worked with Graham and we'd had another

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season of, it could have been really interesting.

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He is a very smart man.

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Yeah, he's a lot smarter than almost all of us actually realised

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at the time and certainly many of us realise now.

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I mean, that level of comedy is definitely.

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I think that level of comedy is starting to be shown back when

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there were those sketches when the show was off the air, but not

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far from coming back onto the air.

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I think it was around the children and needs sort of stuff.

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And there was stuff that Mark Gatis and David Wade, where they

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kidnapped, where they kidnapped...

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Davidson basically has the tape over his mouth for the entire

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time.

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But what his eyes are doing.

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Isn't that a bit of like, I think I might kiss doctor.

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So he's always had a sense.

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It's just a shame We didn't see more of it in zero. and I think we

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would have probably, if it had gone on another year or two.

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I'd forgotten that Mark Gatis is the Kevin Bacon of Doctor Who.

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Yeah, and in fact brings all of these other extraordinary people

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like we mentioned the other week.

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Diana Reig is only in Doctor Who because she's a mate of Mark

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Gatis.

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And he's and also her daughter, which is why they finally ended

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up.

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I mean, my God, what a runcible spoon he is.

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Leavering out there.

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I didn't actually want to say it like that.

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That's kind of unkind.

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What is everyone to say he's the Jethric of the...

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What is a runstable spoon?

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Is that something that's used to jimmy in action man out of a

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camera?

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It's a spoon with a very long candle.

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Exactly that purpose.

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Nothing to do with deadly assassin.

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And constipated scripts.

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You can just leave around.

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Whatever's good, but at the bottom of the barrel.

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But that sense of the lightness of touch that's in this.

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I think that's why I enjoyed this so much because I don't, I feel

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I've seen this for a while.

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I knew who.

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I think that Margatis was originally going to play the part that

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was given to John Barriman if TARDIS Wakia is to be believed and

253
00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:28.139
that it was given to Barriman because he didn't have anything

254
00:12:28.139 --> 00:12:32.700
official otherwise to do for the special.

255
00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:34.740
So what Gatis would have played, what, Gatis?

256
00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:37.500
Yeah, I think he would have played himself with his wife and kids

257
00:12:37.500 --> 00:12:39.059
and so...

258
00:12:39.059 --> 00:12:40.559
Sparrowman is infinitely funnier.

259
00:12:40.620 --> 00:12:43.259
Well, I suspect the whole thing was a moveable feast, depending on

260
00:12:43.259 --> 00:12:44.039
who was found.

261
00:12:44.100 --> 00:12:44.820
Who was going what day?

262
00:12:45.419 --> 00:12:46.980
Oh my god, so-and-so's going to win it.

263
00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:47.879
So we have to give them something.

264
00:12:47.940 --> 00:12:49.200
So who would have played Colin?

265
00:12:49.259 --> 00:12:49.559
Oh.

266
00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:54.299
I mean, the most hilarious thing, I think, is when he dumps his

267
00:12:54.299 --> 00:12:57.899
wife and children, by the side of the road, and then just bores

268
00:12:57.899 --> 00:13:02.279
them rigid with show cheating. all the way to Carter.

269
00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:07.620
And isn't the code to his secret wife and kids, him singing, I am

270
00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:08.460
what I am.

271
00:13:08.580 --> 00:13:12.899
Well, that actually appears a couple of times in the episode.

272
00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:17.879
I think the BBC radio announcer is going to play him singing, I am

273
00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:19.019
what I am at some point.

274
00:13:19.139 --> 00:13:19.500
Yes.

275
00:13:19.500 --> 00:13:23.639
And then one of those sort of security guards is listening to, I

276
00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:25.139
am, whatever.

277
00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:28.919
But again, it's another one who's perfectly happy to just take the

278
00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:30.059
Mickey out of themselves.

279
00:13:30.179 --> 00:13:32.519
You know, he's living a secret life.

280
00:13:32.580 --> 00:13:36.659
Glandestine life with a wife and 2 children and but also that

281
00:13:36.659 --> 00:13:39.000
thing of, you know, he will just ball people with his own show

282
00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:42.179
tunes and he's got the pile of DVDs and CDs that he'll give to

283
00:13:42.179 --> 00:13:45.000
anyone who walks past and they're all thrown into the remainder

284
00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:45.960
bin at the exhibition.

285
00:13:46.019 --> 00:13:47.159
You know what I mean?

286
00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:51.000
Like, that shows that someone else who is perfectly happy to make

287
00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:53.940
themselves not, I can't think of the words.

288
00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:56.700
Well, just to make fun of themselves.

289
00:13:56.759 --> 00:13:57.480
To make fun of themselves.

290
00:13:57.539 --> 00:13:57.840
Yeah, exactly.

291
00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:02.519
And both showrunners at that point. doing exactly as well. fact

292
00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:05.159
that Moffat is writing the script to the 50th using the action

293
00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:05.639
figures.

294
00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:06.419
Yeah, yeah.

295
00:14:06.419 --> 00:14:06.960
In his office.

296
00:14:07.019 --> 00:14:07.740
Brilliant.

297
00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:09.059
Because that's what always happens.

298
00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:13.139
You know, Pandora opens, he opens his drawer of action figures and

299
00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:15.179
has them all kind of around the set.

300
00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:19.139
Like that's been his approach to the show and there he is being

301
00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:20.340
made fun of.

302
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.059
And then basically casting himself as wrestle on in the 5

303
00:14:24.059 --> 00:14:24.360
doctors.

304
00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:25.139
That's it.

305
00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:28.919
And then Russell, who is even lower on the pecking order than

306
00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:29.940
Peter Davison.

307
00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.299
Like everyone else is ringing Moffatt to try and get in the show.

308
00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:37.799
Russell's ringing Peter Davis. to get into the special year.

309
00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:42.899
But it's so knowing of all the fan tropes.

310
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:47.580
There's that word and how all these people have their own personas

311
00:14:47.580 --> 00:14:52.200
within fandom at the conventions and all that and that's what's

312
00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:54.299
you know, being portrayed as well so beautifully.

313
00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:55.679
Yeah, yeah.

314
00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:59.039
I think there's a real generosity to it because I do think that

315
00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:02.580
that week everyone gets to do something.

316
00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:06.480
And far from being left out of the anniversary celebrations.

317
00:15:06.539 --> 00:15:10.620
All of those surviving doctors, everyone except Christopher

318
00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:14.279
Eccleston, who gets referenced as the doctor, but doesn't actually

319
00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:14.820
appear.

320
00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:17.039
You get regenerated into it.

321
00:15:17.100 --> 00:15:17.460
Yeah, yeah.

322
00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:18.179
Yeah, yeah.

323
00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:19.139
But everyone.

324
00:15:19.259 --> 00:15:23.759
Well, I mean, he appears briefly in the big climactic scene, in

325
00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:24.779
day of next trunk.

326
00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:25.860
Yeah, yeah.

327
00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:30.419
And so I think there's a real warmth and generosity to that.

328
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:34.320
And that's part of the theme, I think, of the 50th anniversary is

329
00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:37.440
bringing the old series and the new series together and creating

330
00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:40.860
one glorious whole, you know.

331
00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:50.399
I also like the fact that Peter Davison is the nearest thing to a

332
00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:54.720
dynasty that we have in... 3 generations.

333
00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:57.659
Yeah, because, I mean, it's always hard to keep straight in your

334
00:15:57.659 --> 00:15:57.840
head.

335
00:15:57.899 --> 00:16:01.559
It's like what's a 1st cousin once removed and what's a 2nd cousin

336
00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:04.559
which I can never figure out, even though I've researched it many

337
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:07.860
times and tried to get it sorted in my head, I still can't put my

338
00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:09.059
finger on what the difference is.

339
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:13.019
And Georgia Tennant is the thing that wrecks everything there

340
00:16:13.019 --> 00:16:16.259
because you think, but wait, so she's Peter Davidson's daughter

341
00:16:16.259 --> 00:16:19.500
but she's married to David Tennant, which means that Peter

342
00:16:19.500 --> 00:16:24.179
Davidson's sons with his 2nd wife are the 2 kids at the start, but

343
00:16:24.179 --> 00:16:29.759
Georgia Tennant's son, who is now David Tennant's adopted son, is

344
00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:32.220
the kid who is running around the exhibition with his sonic

345
00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:32.820
screwdriver.

346
00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:34.320
Oh, my God, really?

347
00:16:34.379 --> 00:16:35.820
saying that isn't right.

348
00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:36.659
Like Susan?

349
00:16:36.659 --> 00:16:37.860
Yes.

350
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:39.720
Exactly.

351
00:16:39.779 --> 00:16:42.480
And he now is an actor as well.

352
00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:43.679
He's in Game of Thrones.

353
00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:45.179
Like he's a proper adult.

354
00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.000
And just like keeping all of that in your head and trying to work

355
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:49.679
out where all the generations sit.

356
00:16:49.740 --> 00:16:51.120
They're basically Doctor Who Royalty.

357
00:16:51.179 --> 00:16:54.659
Yeah, well, and that's brought in as well, which I just think is

358
00:16:54.659 --> 00:16:55.559
adorable.

359
00:16:55.620 --> 00:17:00.360
So you've got a very, very pregnant Georgia tenant, easy ice cream

360
00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:02.039
with a celery stick.

361
00:17:02.100 --> 00:17:03.000
Oh, yeah.

362
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:05.579
It might as well have been a runcible spin.

363
00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:09.359
And then it rings her as she's giving birth.

364
00:17:09.420 --> 00:17:09.960
Is that right?

365
00:17:10.019 --> 00:17:12.900
I can't remember that there's something else importance going on

366
00:17:12.900 --> 00:17:13.980
something else I was supposed to ask.

367
00:17:14.940 --> 00:17:17.519
So all of that's terribly fun.

368
00:17:17.579 --> 00:17:19.799
And so he uses that relationship to get in.

369
00:17:19.859 --> 00:17:21.779
That's how he even gets into the studio.

370
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:22.859
It's really true here.

371
00:17:22.980 --> 00:17:24.000
Yeah, awesome.

372
00:17:24.059 --> 00:17:25.380
Who else?

373
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:26.940
Do we have favourite cameos?

374
00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:30.180
Well, the opening sequence with Olivia Coleman.

375
00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:35.400
I mean, that's just, I mean, she is she is perfect in everything

376
00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:37.019
but I just love that kind of...

377
00:17:37.019 --> 00:17:38.039
Well, that's what she says, isn't it?

378
00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:38.579
Yes, exactly.

379
00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:39.779
I'm usually in everything.

380
00:17:40.019 --> 00:17:43.740
Even more true now. mortuary now.

381
00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:45.359
But yeah, it's just wonderful.

382
00:17:45.420 --> 00:17:45.900
Wonderful.

383
00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:46.920
Yeah.

384
00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:50.039
And so we have Sean Pertuy representing his absent father and we

385
00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:54.240
actually have David Trouton representing his absent father as one

386
00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:58.019
of the Dalek operators who seem to be reading Dalek operators

387
00:17:58.019 --> 00:17:58.680
magazines.

388
00:17:58.740 --> 00:18:02.759
So you've got Nicholas Briggs and David Trout.

389
00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:04.079
David operate his Gazette.

390
00:18:04.500 --> 00:18:07.500
And then there's another sequence, did you notice, where I'm sure

391
00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:10.019
that someone's holding up a copy of Dr. magazine with the Webber

392
00:18:10.019 --> 00:18:10.319
Fear.

393
00:18:10.380 --> 00:18:10.920
Tell us naps.

394
00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:12.240
Yes, I noticed that as well.

395
00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:13.799
Yeah, yeah, is it in the production office?

396
00:18:13.859 --> 00:18:14.400
They all...

397
00:18:14.460 --> 00:18:15.119
Is it a production office?

398
00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:16.920
Yes, it's in the production office, which I thought was well

399
00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:17.160
done.

400
00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:19.619
Because that wasn't known again.

401
00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:21.539
Well, known, but not public.

402
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:22.079
Right.

403
00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:24.900
And also completing everything, Jessica Carney plays one of the

404
00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:25.500
security guards.

405
00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:26.519
What does she?

406
00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:32.099
Well, it's definitely Janet's finest hour.

407
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:36.119
Oh, she gets to be the master in the regeneration scene.

408
00:18:36.180 --> 00:18:38.460
Can I say about that sequence, Peter?

409
00:18:38.460 --> 00:18:40.920
You may or may not remember this, but we are watching, of course

410
00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:45.240
all this at your place in Penge, the night of the anniversary, and

411
00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:48.539
the actual anniversary, you know, the day the doctor finishes and

412
00:18:48.539 --> 00:18:50.579
we're all going, blah, blah, blah.

413
00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:52.859
And then, of course, oh, we got to go to the red button thing

414
00:18:52.859 --> 00:18:55.259
because that's how this was shown in the UK.

415
00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:57.839
And so there would be about a 10 minute lag.

416
00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:00.240
And I assume that this had already started.

417
00:19:00.299 --> 00:19:04.920
So when we turned it on on the red button, it started with the

418
00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:06.119
regeneration sequence.

419
00:19:06.180 --> 00:19:10.019
So the 1st thing we so for us, when we saw it the 1st time, it

420
00:19:10.019 --> 00:19:13.559
starts with Moffat lying on the sofa and then all these faces

421
00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:17.400
starting to appear around him and he suddenly sort of leaps up the

422
00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:19.859
start and we thought that that was just kind of like a cute little

423
00:19:19.859 --> 00:19:20.640
tag at the beginning.

424
00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:23.160
And then, of course, because it was just on a loop, and then you

425
00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:26.220
sort of caught her... take us about 2 minutes to realise that we'd

426
00:19:26.220 --> 00:19:26.640
missed some.

427
00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:28.740
No, we didn't know.

428
00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:32.700
I was actually insisting to some people, one person in particular

429
00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:36.599
who was quite drunk that evening, that we had gotten to, when we

430
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:39.359
came round to the start again, that, no, no, no, no, we just

431
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:39.960
missed this part.

432
00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:43.980
It's just on a loop and I'll get the name off you later.

433
00:19:56.220 --> 00:20:00.420
So in the other dream, which is very, very definitely all of the

434
00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:04.799
people circling around, it's everyone, isn't it?

435
00:20:04.859 --> 00:20:10.680
Like, I think I spotted Anika and...

436
00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:11.339
Katie is obvious.

437
00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:12.539
Lala's there?

438
00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:14.460
Yep That's good.

439
00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:15.900
Did we?

440
00:20:15.900 --> 00:20:17.160
I need to go and pause and sort of.

441
00:20:17.220 --> 00:20:17.819
I never actually pause.

442
00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:18.960
Maybe that's why Tom didn't do it.

443
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:26.579
So apparently Tom didn't want to do it or Pete rang him several

444
00:20:26.579 --> 00:20:28.259
times and he replied.

445
00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:31.740
Allegedly, everyone who was asked to be in it.

446
00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:34.019
Said yes. said yes. one exception.

447
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:38.880
Now that could be a slightly apocryphal answer given during the

448
00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:39.839
convention to me.

449
00:20:39.900 --> 00:20:41.759
I mean, it is Peter Davidson telling us that.

450
00:20:41.819 --> 00:20:44.160
It is right and sardonic.

451
00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:45.779
And so there may have been, I mean, who knows?

452
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:47.339
There may have been others that said no, but I think he's just

453
00:20:47.339 --> 00:20:48.779
making, he was just making the usual point.

454
00:20:48.900 --> 00:20:51.000
Ian McCellen did it.

455
00:20:51.059 --> 00:20:53.220
Oh my god, that's great.

456
00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:58.319
And you know, so they shot that on the set and like said...

457
00:20:58.319 --> 00:20:59.400
They had an overseas budget.

458
00:21:00.660 --> 00:21:02.519
No, they didn't.

459
00:21:02.579 --> 00:21:06.299
Peter Jackson shot it and sent it over.

460
00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:08.700
It's extraordinary, but I mean, because Peter Jackson is a big

461
00:21:08.700 --> 00:21:08.940
fan.

462
00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:13.319
But that isn't that incredible that, you know, an Academy Award

463
00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:16.440
winning director slash producer, whatever he got the award for at

464
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:16.740
the time?

465
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:21.420
loves the show so much, to film this thing, to take a moment on

466
00:21:21.420 --> 00:21:25.859
the set of a multi-million dollar Hollywood production, to film a

467
00:21:25.859 --> 00:21:29.099
little joke to go in at basically what is effectively a DVD

468
00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:29.460
extra.

469
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:32.339
Yeah, I think it's just amazing because it means that Peter

470
00:21:32.339 --> 00:21:34.920
Jackson and Ron Jones have directed for the same show.

471
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:40.200
But don't you love Sylvester's iPhone screen when it comes up with

472
00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:41.640
Peter the Peter Jackson's calling?

473
00:21:41.700 --> 00:21:43.140
and he's holding the Oscar.

474
00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:45.240
Well, that's right.

475
00:21:45.299 --> 00:21:48.059
Moffatt has like BAFTAs and things like that.

476
00:21:50.460 --> 00:21:52.079
So good.

477
00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:55.920
I love Ian McCallen in that too, where he says, well, actually

478
00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:57.900
probably be better without it.

479
00:21:58.980 --> 00:22:02.039
And the fact that, you know, Peter Jackson has to remind him who

480
00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:04.140
Sylvester is...

481
00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:08.160
And Sylvester and Sylvester is wearing the Hobbit thing and is

482
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:12.839
doing what we ourselves have personally experienced just going on

483
00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:15.900
and on and on about being... all the time.

484
00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:17.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

485
00:22:17.700 --> 00:22:21.900
And the comedy, the oversized comedy t-shirts that the doctors

486
00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:25.740
wear under their jackets, that same sort of thing, and recognising

487
00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:27.480
that they're all filled out.

488
00:22:27.900 --> 00:22:28.619
That's it.

489
00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:34.259
I think for me, though, the thing that made it so incredible was

490
00:22:34.259 --> 00:22:35.880
that it was so incredibly unexpected.

491
00:22:35.940 --> 00:22:38.460
We knew that there was this going to be this little red button

492
00:22:38.460 --> 00:22:41.400
thing that we we were supposed to watch after the day of the

493
00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:41.759
doctor.

494
00:22:41.819 --> 00:22:47.519
But the fact that it was so long, it's half an hour, it's not 10

495
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:47.819
minutes.

496
00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:51.420
You know, the fact that, as we've said, everybody is in it.

497
00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:55.440
Not just nearly everybody, but basically everybody is in it to

498
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:55.920
some degree.

499
00:22:55.980 --> 00:23:00.779
The fact that it is both so affectionate about the program.

500
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:02.519
And that's why I sort of want to pick up with what you were saying

501
00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:03.119
before, Peter.

502
00:23:03.180 --> 00:23:06.180
I don't think it crosses the line to mocking it.

503
00:23:06.299 --> 00:23:08.160
And I agree with you that when the show comes back, they're all

504
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:10.380
trying to distance themselves from the original series going, you

505
00:23:10.380 --> 00:23:11.700
know, it was all a bit rubbish, and we understand that, and you

506
00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:13.980
know, it was all a lot of shoestring, and it's so much better now

507
00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:14.519
blah, blah, blah.

508
00:23:14.579 --> 00:23:16.140
That's also to some extent what fandom was doing.

509
00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:19.319
You know, people like you and I were very much in the minority.

510
00:23:19.380 --> 00:23:22.380
You know, we did start to love the classic series even more

511
00:23:22.380 --> 00:23:24.900
because I was worried that, oh, the new series was going to come

512
00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:26.880
along and, you know, the classic series was going to be sort of

513
00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:27.660
shoved into a cupboard.

514
00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:33.660
And so I think, yes, in 2013, this show has only been back 8

515
00:23:33.660 --> 00:23:34.079
years.

516
00:23:34.140 --> 00:23:36.960
We're still kind of to some extent in that mindset.

517
00:23:37.019 --> 00:23:39.480
But certainly watching it from this distance where I think those

518
00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:40.680
feelings have moved away.

519
00:23:40.740 --> 00:23:44.819
I think it just rides this beautiful line of being affectionately

520
00:23:44.819 --> 00:23:48.359
mocking, not really mocking the show, but mocking the people in

521
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:52.799
the show and relying on our decades of experience with these

522
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:57.900
actors, with these actual people at conventions and when they

523
00:23:57.900 --> 00:24:03.240
appear on DVD extras and the kind of the meta part of fandom

524
00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:05.279
rather than the actual show part necessarily.

525
00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:06.720
Oh yes, absolutely.

526
00:24:06.779 --> 00:24:08.759
And I don't have many problems with it.

527
00:24:08.819 --> 00:24:10.140
I do quite like it.

528
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:14.339
As I said before, it's partly about my own reaction to how classic

529
00:24:14.339 --> 00:24:17.940
Doctor Who was kind of a little bit waylaid by a new Doctor Who

530
00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:21.299
but the fact that it's Peter Davidson who's doing it makes a lot

531
00:24:21.299 --> 00:24:26.519
of difference because it is about almost fan constructs of what

532
00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:28.799
the doctor's personalities were.

533
00:24:28.859 --> 00:24:32.220
And Peter Davidson is very aware of that and is channelling that.

534
00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:36.480
And so I can put my slight awkwardness at that aside, it just

535
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:39.779
means that I'm not 100% on board.

536
00:24:39.900 --> 00:24:40.980
I'm 90% on board.

537
00:24:41.220 --> 00:24:47.220
I think, though, that this whole year has been about bringing

538
00:24:47.220 --> 00:24:50.579
classic Doctor Who back into the fold, and I can kind of

539
00:24:50.579 --> 00:24:55.920
understand the Doctor Who was a punchline, and it was a show that

540
00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:59.400
was kind of science fiction drama produced like a light

541
00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:03.359
entertainment program, a show that they'd been making for years

542
00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:06.599
and years without properly thinking about why on earth they were

543
00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:07.140
doing it.

544
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:10.680
And we were all still around to enjoy the Sylvester McCoy era

545
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:16.079
where it suddenly had some proper ideas behind it and had had some

546
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:17.279
thought put into it.

547
00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:19.740
But it had been a punchline.

548
00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:23.519
And so I think that they were right initially when bringing it

549
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:27.299
back to be wary of the association with the old program.

550
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:31.140
But I certainly think by the time series 7 comes along, we're much

551
00:25:31.140 --> 00:25:33.900
more relaxed about that because we're successful on our own

552
00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:34.200
terms.

553
00:25:34.259 --> 00:25:38.039
And it's contextual as well because the new series was a massive

554
00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:42.960
hit for its 1st few years and was definitely in the anniversary

555
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:43.740
year.

556
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:46.980
And so the comparisons would sort of audience profile and

557
00:25:46.980 --> 00:25:48.839
popularity are apt.

558
00:25:48.900 --> 00:25:52.259
But we can look at it a little bit differently now where the new

559
00:25:52.259 --> 00:25:56.099
series is still popular enough, but is another drama series on

560
00:25:56.099 --> 00:25:56.579
television.

561
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.519
It doesn't have the heavenly choir of angel singing every time

562
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:00.059
it's mentioned.

563
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:02.700
Yeah, well, we'll get that next year.

564
00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:03.359
It'll be fine.

565
00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:07.079
But Doctor Who, I think, becomes the punchline in that way in the

566
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:07.680
80s.

567
00:26:07.740 --> 00:26:08.220
Yeah.

568
00:26:08.220 --> 00:26:10.799
And not because, I mean, I love I love all that area as well.

569
00:26:10.859 --> 00:26:16.380
But I think it's because, well, actually, should I say it becomes

570
00:26:16.380 --> 00:26:20.339
the punchline in the sort of from the Williams era on, because I

571
00:26:20.339 --> 00:26:25.019
think that's when the show starts to fall behind what's needed

572
00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:27.660
visually to keep up with...

573
00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:28.259
Exactly.

574
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:30.660
And because they just can't, right?

575
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:34.440
But also, you know, high inflation, relatively speaking, budget

576
00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:38.400
cuts, terrible producer, well, yeah, well, different kinds of

577
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:40.980
terrible producer, like they're both terrible in their own way.

578
00:26:41.099 --> 00:26:43.980
Great Williams and James, he much as I'm fond of both of them.

579
00:26:44.039 --> 00:26:49.019
But they both have significant spots, yeah.

580
00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:49.380
Yeah.

581
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:51.779
You know, Graham Williams, I think, isn't able to get the best out

582
00:26:51.779 --> 00:26:53.579
of the BBC people that he can.

583
00:26:53.579 --> 00:26:56.279
And everyone starts, it becomes the Tom Baker comedy half hour

584
00:26:56.279 --> 00:26:56.700
show.

585
00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:59.339
JNT can get the best out of the BBC.

586
00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:01.440
That's why we have Greater Show in the Galaxy at all because he

587
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:02.579
knew how the system worked.

588
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:04.619
He could fudge things together and make it work.

589
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:06.779
But he kind of gets so obsessed with the merchandising and

590
00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:08.640
everything else that the shade starts to become a parody of

591
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:09.900
itself.

592
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:13.259
And he has no taste and he's not very into writing.

593
00:27:13.859 --> 00:27:16.559
Exactly He cares less about the scripts and more about the kind of

594
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:17.819
the set piece moments.

595
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:19.559
And I think that's why it becomes the punchline.

596
00:27:19.619 --> 00:27:23.400
That's when the BBC hierarchy starts to want to go away.

597
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:24.059
Yeah.

598
00:27:24.059 --> 00:27:25.559
And I think that's where it is.

599
00:27:25.619 --> 00:27:27.180
I don't think that's the case in the 60s.

600
00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:29.160
You know, had the program ended in 1978.

601
00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:31.799
I think this wouldn't have even been a conversation.

602
00:27:31.859 --> 00:27:32.339
No.

603
00:27:32.339 --> 00:27:35.460
I mean, that's pretty much why when you have a crossover in the

604
00:27:35.460 --> 00:27:39.599
fiction, with the new show, it's Tom Baker's doctor, more or less

605
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:42.000
who is back and not one of the 80s doctors.

606
00:27:42.059 --> 00:27:45.420
And so Peter Davidson's instincts and what he's what he's saying

607
00:27:45.420 --> 00:27:47.279
in this program are actually correct.

608
00:27:47.339 --> 00:27:47.940
Yeah.

609
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:52.140
I mean, when they start starting to rehabilitate the show from

610
00:27:52.140 --> 00:27:55.319
like in the early 90s, you know, when Alan Yentov is trying to

611
00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:57.420
kind of get things going again.

612
00:27:57.480 --> 00:27:58.380
What are they showing?

613
00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:01.500
You know, they're not showing the 80s stories.

614
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:06.000
They're showing, you know, Pertwee and Tom Baker stories on those

615
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:07.319
Friday night repeats as a rule.

616
00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:09.240
Yeah, in the late 90s, yes.

617
00:28:09.299 --> 00:28:11.160
Spearhead and Silurians and Genesis.

618
00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:11.460
Yeah.

619
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:30.720
I mean, that we talk about Davidson being smart, but one of the

620
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:34.680
ways you know that he's smart is that he gets this terrible

621
00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:37.859
material and finds some way of performing it.

622
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:40.500
You know, he always seems to be doing something.

623
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:41.640
Like you can tell.

624
00:28:41.700 --> 00:28:43.559
Yes, he's never just finding it in.

625
00:28:43.619 --> 00:28:45.119
Yeah, obviously rubbish, isn't it?

626
00:28:45.180 --> 00:28:46.680
Because as a whole, it's not.

627
00:28:46.740 --> 00:28:50.579
It's just, I think most of the failures are failures of

628
00:28:50.579 --> 00:28:51.960
production.

629
00:28:52.019 --> 00:28:52.680
Yeah.

630
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:55.259
I mean, there's always going to be script things, which are a bit

631
00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:57.420
rubbish, but no, mostly they're fine.

632
00:28:57.480 --> 00:29:02.640
I think that the show becomes too horrible, I think.

633
00:29:02.700 --> 00:29:03.720
Oh, well, yes, you have an issue.

634
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:04.559
It stops being fun.

635
00:29:04.619 --> 00:29:06.240
Yeah, no I disagree with that.

636
00:29:06.299 --> 00:29:07.619
With Capaldi or with Joe?

637
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:08.700
No, with Davis.

638
00:29:08.700 --> 00:29:11.339
David, yeah.

639
00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:12.660
I think that's overstated.

640
00:29:12.660 --> 00:29:13.619
Exactly so, but.

641
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:15.420
And you can really see the cast.

642
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:19.799
The cast are led by Davison's emotional responses to that.

643
00:29:19.859 --> 00:29:24.839
And you can really see him, forgive me, petering out. why I'm

644
00:29:24.839 --> 00:29:25.019
here.

645
00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:28.680
The best thing that happened to the program in that era is Peter

646
00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:32.039
Davidson making the conscious decision between, I would say, the 5

647
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:35.160
doctors and Warriors of the Deep to just start playing the doctor

648
00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:35.819
as himself.

649
00:29:35.880 --> 00:29:36.480
Yeah.

650
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.819
It's that one...

651
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:40.500
Yeah, that's what's missing.

652
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:44.160
I mean, you get flashes of it. a bit of a joy at the time. as a

653
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:46.019
little boy thinking, I'm actually enjoying this.

654
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:49.079
I mean, we loved all of it, but there was just a sense of...

655
00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:50.220
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

656
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:52.980
I mean, even worries of the deep, which we now scored.

657
00:29:53.099 --> 00:29:54.059
I loved it at the time.

658
00:29:54.059 --> 00:29:55.740
It had a big...

659
00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:59.160
It looked very 80s instead of very 70s, you know?

660
00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:01.619
It was a bubbly space 1999.

661
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:05.279
But can I say until but it's interesting after 1920s.

662
00:30:05.339 --> 00:30:08.099
After sort of 1920, even though I can't, yeah, you're right.

663
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:09.180
We were sort of all loving it.

664
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:11.700
But I was sort of loving it, but at the same time, I was then

665
00:30:11.700 --> 00:30:14.940
looking forward to going back to the Ark and Space after time

666
00:30:14.940 --> 00:30:17.279
flight finished or whatever they went back to would have been

667
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:17.759
something like that.

668
00:30:17.819 --> 00:30:21.240
And you're watching then the Toms and so on like that.

669
00:30:21.299 --> 00:30:23.519
And then, 0 my god, they go back and do Day of the Daleks.

670
00:30:23.579 --> 00:30:28.799
And so, you know, that was more exciting for me in 1982, 83. than

671
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:32.579
it was for me to see a brand new episode. same.

672
00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:33.119
Yeah.

673
00:30:33.180 --> 00:30:37.680
I actually gave this comparison to Matt Jones at that do that we

674
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:41.339
keep coming back to about comparing the 50th and the 20th.

675
00:30:41.339 --> 00:30:44.700
And I was kind of predicting a, you know, is it all going to start

676
00:30:44.700 --> 00:30:47.519
to go horribly wrong in the same way that it did after the 20th.

677
00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:48.900
I remember that conversation.

678
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:50.460
Look what happened.

679
00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:52.140
Look, it happened because of the fact that, you know, everything

680
00:30:52.140 --> 00:30:54.240
builds to this massive anniversary special.

681
00:30:54.299 --> 00:30:55.920
There's this great celebration of the program.

682
00:30:55.980 --> 00:31:00.000
So anything after that is going to be a sort of a denouement, a

683
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.740
bit of a kind of a disappointment.

684
00:31:01.799 --> 00:31:05.579
And the show starts to change a direction to try and do something

685
00:31:05.579 --> 00:31:08.279
different and I'll what if we have a doctor like this and do

686
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:08.460
that.

687
00:31:08.579 --> 00:31:09.359
And it is.

688
00:31:09.420 --> 00:31:10.740
And I actually think there are a lot of parallels.

689
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:11.940
And it never happens immediately.

690
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:13.619
There's always some residual goodwill.

691
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:16.680
So in the original show, you'll get season 21, which is pretty

692
00:31:16.680 --> 00:31:16.920
good.

693
00:31:16.980 --> 00:31:19.140
And season 22, which you and I think is pretty good.

694
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:21.000
And it is, it's this.

695
00:31:21.059 --> 00:31:21.299
It is.

696
00:31:21.420 --> 00:31:21.960
Yeah, terrible.

697
00:31:22.019 --> 00:31:25.740
And in the new series, you do get pretty much the rest of the Moth

698
00:31:25.740 --> 00:31:27.000
era, which is pretty good.

699
00:31:27.059 --> 00:31:29.880
Series 8 is and series 10.

700
00:31:30.059 --> 00:31:32.160
Yeah, Series 8's a proper return to form.

701
00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:33.660
I'll be interested to see what I think.

702
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:37.140
Well, I just think it's like he's too embarrassed to like he wants

703
00:31:37.140 --> 00:31:41.220
to do a good job because the doctor suddenly him, his old Scottish

704
00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:41.400
guy.

705
00:31:41.460 --> 00:31:44.759
It's like, oh, I'm the doctor now. have to write good things for

706
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:45.180
me to say.

707
00:31:45.299 --> 00:31:49.740
And series 8 retains basically the popularity of the Matt Smith

708
00:31:49.740 --> 00:31:50.220
era.

709
00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:53.700
It's a fraction down in ratings, but it has that kind of audience

710
00:31:53.700 --> 00:31:56.279
and appreciation to it.

711
00:31:56.339 --> 00:32:01.680
It is the closest, I think, in structure to a Davies series, even

712
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:03.599
more so than five, I think.

713
00:32:03.660 --> 00:32:06.660
You know, it's lightly serialised.

714
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:09.000
It's got the master in a kind of arc.

715
00:32:09.059 --> 00:32:12.000
We just go back and forward and do various sort of different

716
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:12.299
things.

717
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:13.500
Yeah, you know.

718
00:32:36.299 --> 00:32:39.900
Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for for now.

719
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:43.740
We'll be back at Christmas to say a centuries long farewell to

720
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:46.200
Matt Smith in time of the doctor.

721
00:32:46.380 --> 00:32:50.339
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

722
00:32:50.339 --> 00:32:52.980
and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook

723
00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:55.980
at FTE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website

724
00:32:55.980 --> 00:32:59.039
FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other

725
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:04.079
podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterra, maximum power, and untitled

726
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:05.160
Star Trek project.

727
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:10.259
Until next time, may Olivia Coleman continue to be in everything.

728
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:12.720
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

729
00:33:12.779 --> 00:33:13.559
Good night.

730
00:33:13.619 --> 00:33:14.160
Bye bye.

731
00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:14.940
Good then.

732
00:33:21.779 --> 00:33:25.619
That was Flight True Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter

733
00:33:25.619 --> 00:33:27.480
Griffith, Simon Warren, Richard Stone.

734
00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:29.700
Theme arrangements by Cameron Lamb.

735
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:32.700
This episode, petering out, was recorded on the 2nd of October

736
00:33:32.700 --> 00:33:36.059
2022 and released on the 27th of November.

737
00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:45.900
Thank you all very much for joining us for this week's anniversary

738
00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:49.440
celebrations and special thanks to Conrad Westmas for joining us

739
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:51.299
for our night of the doctor episode.

740
00:33:51.420 --> 00:33:54.839
And thank you to all the loyal and attractive listeners who gave

741
00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:55.920
us feedback this week.

742
00:33:55.980 --> 00:33:57.660
We couldn't have done it without you.

743
00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:06.240
We've been going for half an hour.

744
00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:09.539
I think that we should do an out, though.

745
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:15.059
Well, we haven't talked about the part two. that they were going

746
00:34:15.059 --> 00:34:15.420
to do.

747
00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:16.980
There's nothing to say about it.

748
00:34:17.099 --> 00:34:17.940
There was going to be a part two.

749
00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:22.559
McGain was talking about it at a convention 12 months after. part

750
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.079
two Exactly.

751
00:34:25.139 --> 00:34:27.239
And why isn't everyone, you know, why aren't we in it?

752
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:29.340
What were they going to?

753
00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:31.500
He was saying it's in pre-production and they're scripts and we're

754
00:34:31.500 --> 00:34:33.179
still, you know, What were they going to call it?

755
00:34:33.239 --> 00:34:34.199
The next day of the doctor.

756
00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:35.639
That's it.

757
00:34:35.699 --> 00:34:39.539
And then Colin said, immediately afterwards, possibly the same

758
00:34:39.539 --> 00:34:40.019
convention.

759
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:41.519
I can't remember, it's a very long time ago.

760
00:34:41.579 --> 00:34:44.940
It's on, um, it's on the Tatus Wiki thing, this story as well.

761
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:46.619
He said, no, you?

762
00:34:46.619 --> 00:34:50.159
In his best car, but more northern.

763
00:34:50.219 --> 00:34:54.000
They said, no, we have looked at several ideas, but it would feel

764
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:57.900
a pale imitation of the glory that was the five-ish doctor's

765
00:34:57.900 --> 00:34:58.380
reboot.

766
00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:02.280
But there is apparently chat going on.

767
00:35:02.340 --> 00:35:03.420
Us, Colin.

768
00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:06.719
Colin is a bit of a blab. quite happy to chat.

769
00:35:06.780 --> 00:35:07.619
That would have been great.

770
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:10.139
They could have fired Colin and then gone on without him.

771
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:11.940
Wow.

772
00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:14.099
No, too soon.

773
00:35:14.340 --> 00:35:20.039
It's still too soon But I do hope he's doing something for next

774
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:20.280
year.

775
00:35:20.340 --> 00:35:24.480
It'll be interesting to see... things.

776
00:35:24.539 --> 00:35:26.639
So, you know, if anyone follows Uncle Colin.

777
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:34.199
The funny thing is that this is going to be released after the

778
00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:38.039
Chibnall centenary special.

779
00:35:38.099 --> 00:35:38.820
Oh.

780
00:35:38.820 --> 00:35:44.699
And so by then, we will know what a bad idea it was to bring all

781
00:35:44.699 --> 00:35:46.559
of those people back into the main show.

782
00:35:46.619 --> 00:35:49.380
I don't need to see it can tell from the trailer.

783
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:51.119
Oh, yeah, yeah.

784
00:35:51.179 --> 00:35:53.219
With all due respect to the people involved in it, none of them

785
00:35:53.219 --> 00:35:53.699
listen, do they?

786
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:56.340
Janet Janet doesn't listen to everything she's mentioned, is it?

787
00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:59.159
Well, we'll just ask her when we're released.

788
00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:02.039
Maybe that could be the sequel to this.

789
00:36:02.099 --> 00:36:04.920
It could be Peter Davison in a cave zone design or a generation

790
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:07.139
coming back and say, they're not going to have you back, Janet.

791
00:36:08.699 --> 00:36:13.320
It is a bit sad that Janet Fielding and Sophie Aldred never had

792
00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:15.239
more to do with the new show than Peter Davidson has.

793
00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:19.440
That is a that is a crime against nature.

794
00:36:19.500 --> 00:36:23.699
Well, Peter Davidson and David Tennant were watched by 13000000

795
00:36:23.699 --> 00:36:24.780
people in 2007.

796
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:27.059
I don't think they're going to be watched by the same number of

797
00:36:27.059 --> 00:36:27.239
people.

798
00:36:27.300 --> 00:36:28.920
Oh, for that?

799
00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:30.179
Children of Nate thing.

800
00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:30.719
Oh, okay.

801
00:36:30.780 --> 00:36:31.320
Okay, fair enough.

802
00:36:31.380 --> 00:36:31.860
He did do that.

803
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:32.820
I forgot about that one.

804
00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:35.219
So it's actually this month.

805
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:36.599
So it's extraordinary thing.

806
00:36:36.659 --> 00:36:37.199
October, yeah.

807
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:38.340
We're in October now.

808
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:41.699
It's extraordinary to think that I am totally uninterested in

809
00:36:41.699 --> 00:36:42.719
what's going on.

810
00:36:43.139 --> 00:36:44.579
It's in 3 week, 3 or four. 4 weeks time.

811
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:46.440
Is there anyone who is excited about it?

812
00:36:46.500 --> 00:36:48.360
I don't know, Brendan.

813
00:36:48.420 --> 00:36:49.980
I used to be.

814
00:36:49.980 --> 00:36:52.679
So is this the, is this, does she regenerate at the end?

815
00:36:52.739 --> 00:36:53.280
Yes, yes.

816
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:54.360
Into David Tenant?

817
00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:55.139
Into David Tenant?

818
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:56.760
Not into shooting.

819
00:36:56.820 --> 00:37:00.659
So he's actually not into the watcher. to David Tenner, who's

820
00:37:00.659 --> 00:37:01.619
going to regenerate into shooting.

821
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:02.159
Right.

822
00:37:02.219 --> 00:37:04.860
So I wasn't sure whether so the David Tennant bits aren't like a

823
00:37:04.860 --> 00:37:06.659
flashback to his earlier thing.

824
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:08.639
Because he looks older and, you know, he's wearing different

825
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:09.780
clothes.

826
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.179
No, but I think they've...

827
00:37:12.179 --> 00:37:13.079
They've let into on with.

828
00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:14.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

829
00:37:14.219 --> 00:37:15.659
Yeah.

830
00:37:15.780 --> 00:37:17.219
God.

831
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:19.019
This is going to be terrible.

832
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:23.460
I think I very definitely a, sorry, we've for the last few years

833
00:37:23.460 --> 00:37:27.059
up and we're going to reassure you all that it's going to be...

834
00:37:27.059 --> 00:37:29.039
No, but I don't want them to make it look like we've stuffed up

835
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:30.420
everything since David Tennant left.

836
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:31.679
No that's true.

837
00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:33.300
They certainly haven't.

838
00:37:33.300 --> 00:37:34.440
No.

839
00:37:34.500 --> 00:37:37.500
But it did go off the boil, though, I think.

840
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:41.099
You know, like it stops after the 50th anniversary.

841
00:37:41.099 --> 00:37:43.260
After the 50th anniversary, I think it does.

842
00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:46.079
I mean, the Capaldi era is a disappointment to me.

843
00:37:46.139 --> 00:37:50.159
And especially because I thought he would, he's such a, has such a

844
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:52.320
good doctor and can be such a good doctor and I think he's just

845
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:54.420
wasted and it's a shame.

846
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:58.139
I actually gave this comparison to Matt Jones at that do that we

847
00:37:58.139 --> 00:37:58.800
keep coming back to.