Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flighter Entirety.
The only Doctor Who podcast that got thrown out of this morning's
Christmas service for taking the doctor's advice too seriously.
I'm Nathan.
I'm Todd.
I'm Peter.
I'm James.
Well, it's Christmas Day again, embarrassing relatives, unfunny
Christmas crackers, and a turkey, so undercooked that a decent vet
would give it an even chance.
But all the time, far away on trendsolore, whole centuries have
been passing.
It's the time of the doctor.
I think this is another one of those episodes where a lot of
people really dislike it a lot, and we're going to find ourselves
saying how great we think it is, is that right?
I had a journey with this episode.
The Todd experience, the Todd journey.
It kind of was the Todd experience.
We talked in our snowman episode about the importance of context
to enjoying an episode.
And so when I watched this first, I was at home in London on
Christmas Day in 2013 and I wasn't blown away by it.
I kind of channelled my inner Jeremy Bentham.
I was like, yeah, a bit of a curate, say, good in parts.
But, you know, the roof was leaking and I think Emmerdale had been
tedious and the chicken was undercooked or whatever.
And I just didn't have a particularly good time and I didn't
appreciate it for what it was.
But then I went back to it a couple of months later and I thought
I misjudged this.
This is pretty good.
And then I went back to it a year later and, you know, maybe
something had changed.
Maybe Emmerdale was good and maybe the chicken was cooked and the
roof was fixed and stuff like that.
But I thought, wow, this is really something special.
Yeah, I love it.
What about you, Tom?
I think the anniversary sort of celebrations overshadowed this.
So I was very much in the headspace of I loved day of the doctor
the 5 doctors reboot, and, of course, an adventure in time and
space.
Space and time. get it wrong every time.
And so they were all very much in my thoughts as being just
glorious trio of adventures.
And then this came along and, you know, I knew Matt was going and
it was sort of like, oh, yeah, I liked it, but it was just sort of
like it didn't blow me away.
It was sort of like we're just tying off all the loose ends and
we're getting to the end and I was just a little fanboy waiting
for the next doctor really to arrive.
I feel a bit like sort of the morning after the party.
Maybe.
Yeah.
So I just kind of, oh, yes, we're going to have.
Oh, here are the Daleks and here are the cybermen.
Here's the angels and here's the Santarans.
Here's a crack in the wall.
Yeah, and here are the silence.
We're just putting everything we can in.
And we don't have River song.
We've got another character, strong female character who the
doctor knows who can buy the Tartars, and I always quite liked it
but it was sort of like, well, I can't believe it's not River song
or somebody else.
And so it's sort of like, you know, Matt's not returning.
We've got to just wrap everything up and yeah, so I, you know, I
liked it.
But now, I love it.
Ding, ding.
James.
I also had the Todd experience, I think.
You're one of many.
It's very popular.
At the time, like it wasn't a great time in my life, like I had
just gone through a really rough breakup.
And so I think everything I watched on television from that time
was coloured by that and I've never gone back to rewatch it until
last night.
Wow, okay.
Because it just was tarnished by a really negative time in my
life.
And I really, really enjoyed it.
I, yes, I mean, I think we all talk about this. you know, it's
Moffatt desperately trying to wrap up all the plot strands from
the last few years.
It feels like a shopping list. but it's wonderfully directed
gorgeously acted and fantastically scripted.
I like it, and I think it is much better than most people say it
is, but I do think there are elements of kind of Moffat failure
mode visible in it.
And so I think a lot of the sort of sitcom stuff at the beginning
the voiceover, like papering over centuries with just all of
Brady's voiceover, all of those seem like the sort of thing that
you would do if you were kind of flailing to get the script done
structurally it's a bit 1st draft.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think what's there, though, is actually pretty great, and I
think it needs to be kind of bumped up a bit, because this is a
little bit like the girl in the fireplace in reverse, where you
have Clara has a Christmas Day, in which she nips back to the
planet Transzolore maybe 3 times at different times in the
doctor's life.
And so the doctor experiences centuries on this one day, but for
Clara, it's just one Christmas day.
And so I think it needed to be told from Clara's point of view
rather than the doctor's point of view.
And I guess it's Matt Smith Swan song and you want as much Matt in
it as possible.
But I do think that it kind of falls between 2 stools.
It isn't quite what it could be.
But I think what it is is pretty great.
I mean, the plot is all a bit chuck it in and hold decides.
But I honestly don't care.
That's not what I'm here for in this episode.
All of the answers that are given and all of the plot threads that
are has to be said very loosely tied up.
Don't really matter to me.
I'm here for what the episode is for and that's Matt's farewell.
Yeah, I don't think I would have minded if we didn't get those
plot threads wrapped up.
Same.
And I don't quite know what Moffatt's doing here.
Is he kind of making fun of the desire to have all of this sort of
stuff sorted out?
So, you know, he makes the silence genetically engineered
priests.
And, you know, he has all of Brady deal with all of the lingering
plot threats from series 5 and 6 in just one reasonably short
speech, which is kind of something that we could have worked out
for ourselves.
Maybe we didn't really need it.
I think it's like the audience.
We come to it, and we think, well, what about all those plot
threads?
And then when you're watching the episode, you realise it doesn't
matter.
What you're here for is the emotion of Matt leaving.
Yeah.
And so what the story does, I think, is it boils down who the
doctor is just to one very, very simple scenario.
And this is what the doctor's life has always been, isn't it?
He's looking after some people, silly people who are wandering
around, living their lives and just wave after wave of ridiculous
Doctor Who monsters attack them, and the doctor fights them off
and then eventually he dies of old age.
And in a sense, that's the doctor's story absolutely boiled down
to its very essence.
It's kind of like the pert we era, but instead of pert we
defending the earth.
It's the doctor defending this one village.
Yeah.
Yeah, and we just get one episode of it too.
And it's Moffatt actually really, really properly breaking the
connection between the show and the doctor's life.
So Matt Smith is the doctor for maybe a millennium, right?
So he is the doctor for sort of 300 years between seasons 5 and
six.
Then we get 300 years. in the middle here.
And then we get another whole bunch of 100s of years with the old
doctor.
And so the doctor's life looks nothing like the program.
That's no way to talk about pinnacle.
And handles is the doctor's longer serving companion.
He's the doctor's companion for longer than anyone else at all.
Yeah, more charisma than Vicky and prettier than Dodo.
So handles is played, can I say?
By my celebrity boyfriend, Cave Novak, who plays Nandor, the
Relentless, in what we do in the shadows?
Who's your ex, Chameleon?
Gerald Flood was my ex.
Yeah, and he's terrific.
He's really good.
It's a very kind of thankless part, but that bit where he dies, you
know, waiting for the dawn is actually so great.
It's got more impact than Adrick.
Yeah, it's really good.
It's because it's mad.
You're on a role with one minus, Peter.
I've got more impact than Patrick and he crashed into the
dinosaur.
Yeah, absolutely.
And he still didn't give any good information on the way out.
No, it's that thing.
It's the callback where the last thing that handles says is the
you know, the reminder to connect the telephone to the console
again.
Clearly the random number was something like 157000000 um minutes
between the doctor giving the reminder and him finally giving it.
That's the end.
And then Matt, the Matt, the way that Matt says, thanks, mate, or
good on you, mate, or something like that is so touching and so
understated.
It is actually, it's kind of Moffatt kind of going, look, I can
make you cry when a stupid cyberman head prop dies.
Look at what I am capable of.
Yeah, it's like, I think you've got a tear now, wait another 15
minutes.
Obviously, Stephen got my memo that he had to wrap up all the
plot.
And I lived for that.
You were here for.
That's what I was here for.
And when that happened, it was like, oh, thank you.
Just hand it to me on a plate.
You've done a wonderful job.
I don't care about anything else.
But it's funny, isn't it, that it's done so quickly.
And so efficiently.
There wasn't really that much dangling, turns out.
No, but I mean...
I guess in the whole episode, you've got all the big monsters.
Yeah.
And again, Stephen's not really interested in them.
No.
And I'm all about the hair, really.
Can I just say Matt's hair, that wig is absolutely appalling.
I just want to say that all I could...
What about Clara's?
Did you spot it as a wig or did you know going in that he would be
wearing a wig?
I think we knew, didn't we?
We knew, and at the time, I didn't mind it, but coming back to it
this time, all I could fixate on was the week.
It was so stupid.
What do you rips it off?
Karen is wearing a wig, yes.
Because she'd been nebula.
And the doctor had been in something else.
Matt had been in something else and so he had to have a buzz card
or something like that.
But it's kind of hilarious how how Stephen Moffatt just goes, all
right, we're putting it in and we're going to make a joke about
it.
And the idea that the doctor was bored, and so he shaved his head
just out of sheer bored.
Yeah, like a perian mindwalk.
Oh, bull.
It's all happening here, everyone.
But he does have delicate eyebrows.
The delicate.
So do I. He's really kind of a little bit embarrassed by that.
No, they're just delicate.
It's really funny.
And also the thing where Clara says that the doctor has ears like
rocket fins and he really likes that.
Oh, I know.
It's so great.
But I'm wearing a wig thing.
Like the way that the truth field is established is, again, in
another really, really funny sitcom scene where he meets those
people.
They've got their stories all sorted out.
And then the doctor just blurts out his entire backstory and then
ends with, and I'm wearing a wig.
It's so good.
What's your name?
Bossy control freak.
He just has this snack, doesn't he?
To be able to give you that humour.
And give you information and set it all up.
Like, it's just the way he covers his mouth like a child when he's
just said something.
It's such an unselfconscious performance, like right to the end. so
good And the nudity thing, like the nakedness thing is clearly
that Moffat went, oh, Matt's leaving, we have to have a scene
where he's naked because all the fans will love it.
Yeah, yeah, better on Corey McMahon.
But also, he kind of thinks, you know, it's he described Matt
Smith as an old man in the body of an underwear model.
I'm sure that I've heard him say me as well.
I wonder if Sheila Reid will be as amorous to you as she was to
hear.
Oh my god, I love her.
They'll be coming round for you, coating twice and using someone
else's voting box, both criminal offences.
She is so good in that.
And so we've got the nudity scene, which is just clearly just
wanted to...
But what they've done is they've made this stupid rule that you
have to be naked at church for kind of no reason and then we just
get all this sort of comedy nonsense about the nudity.
And it's so hilarious where we come in and, you know, watching it
now knowing what's going on.
The doctor has created hologram clothes that are projected
directly onto Clara's visual cortex, but not onto anyone else's.
And so when he walks in, everyone's reaction to seeing him naked
which we don't know is happening at the time is so funny
particularly the father. he's hilarious Yeah, because Matt's like
right next to him so he can't look a little to his right.
Yeah, yeah, he's trying to look away.
It's so wonderful.
It's just terrific Is that really the same dad who was quite nice
in the wings of Aakutan?
It's a it's recast. isn't it Well, yes, isn't the dad in the rings
a contend, like young?
Young and short.
He seems quite nice in the Rings of Actan. a bit of curmudgeon.
Steens are not interested in Clara's parenting really.
He's not interested in anyone's parents.
Well, that's right, James.
And so here again, it's just played for comedy.
I do love the fact that the stepmother is just not liked by Clara
or Gran, like that's very funny.
But I do want to say something about like Stephen makes this whole
nudity thing.
Stephen makes things quite sexual and quite adult, right, in some
ways.
And I actually think, oh, I'm such a prude.
Like, I do find it funny their reactions and everything like that
but I just kind of go, oh, really?
Like you have to make the doctor that stupid as to not, like we're
going to Clara's family, Christmas.
Surely they're going to walk around on the street.
Surely he would not be that dumb.
Well, he notices that it's causing some tension, the fact that
he's naked.
He eventually notices.
But you know what I'm you know what I'm saying?
Like surely would just say, okay, I'll just put a holographic
thing on me and everybody will see it.
Were you on board with the turkey being naked?
I mean, the whole reason he's naked is for that comedy scene.
I know, I know.
I'm just being.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm just being mean.
No, no.
But where I just kind of, like, I just think it's a bit nap, like
and I kind of bit over it.
Like I just went, oh, we have to have a comedy mat moment where
he's like, oh, all goofy and all that sort of stuff.
It'll be over quite soon.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, that's nearly done.
So I'm just being a bit negative for a moment, but I do find it
quite funny.
Do you think Pertwee's doctor would occasionally just get up in
the morning and forget to put clothes on while he was...
When he's in that shower and Spearhead from Space, he's fully
clothed. just don't know.
That's right.
I think that's the really funny.
Joe Grant never minded.
So we have this whole joke about nudity and the doctor and Clara
both being naked, but we never see it because we see the projected
clothes that aren't there.
I just hear them talking about being naked.
And again, it's Moffat playing with the difference between a
television show and what's happening to the characters, which is
kind of fun.
Yeah.
And like, you know, when they go to church and, you know, on
Christmas morning. you know, thanking them for being naked and
seeing chambers.
Well, I mean, Jenna's got her arms crossed across her despite the
fact that we see her wearing that top, particularly when she's
menaced by the silence.
We see her with her arms crossed.
So she's playing it as if she thinks of herself being naked, which
I think is kind of cute.
So Tasha Lem, I guess, is here to kind of give some sort of
background to the church that we 1st see in time of angels.
She's kind of like the good flip side of Madame Cavarian, isn't
she?
Yeah, yeah.
So, and we learn that the Kavarian sect broke off from the church
and travel back in time to fiddle about in series 6, I guess.
I kind of love that whole, I know it's him wrapping up all these
plot devices, but the fact that his last story is tied to his 1st
season.
Yeah, it's all the way back to series five, isn't it?
Yeah.
And that series 6 causes series five.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah Yes, that's really clever, isn't it?
It's interesting.
I think her performance is absolutely wonderful and it's such a
shame that we don't get to see her earlier than what we do.
We only get this one story, you know, and so she's not River
song.
She's not Madame Vastra.
She's the next female in the doctor's life who's slightly older
than what he is and knows how to pilot the TARDIS.
Yeah, it has to be said she's not a 1000000 miles from River
song.
And there's sexual tension between them.
Oh, definitely.
Well, yes, certainly.
And is it all over, babe?
Is it all of Brady?
Yeah, all of Brady.
I've seen her in something recently, I think.
Yeah, she's in Star Trek Picard.
She's the Irish Romulan in Star Trek.
She's only 12 years old.
She's against ageing.
She's fabulous in that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I kept thinking, where have I seen you before?
And then when I made back to this.
Yeah.
No, I think she's a great character and it's such a shame that she
has to be turned has to die as a dalek. and is only in this one
episode.
I really like that too.
That's so moffity, though, isn't it?
It's just like, and then I died.
Oh, funny, the things that sleep your mind.
Yeah, I died screaming your name.
Yeah.
And apparently she's died over and over again there.
But again, that's series 7, right, back to the beginning of series
7, where the Dalek suddenly can live inside people, which, again
is sort of slightly stupid or whatever and not anything that we've
ever gone back to, but it does make for pretty great visuals, I
think.
And also the body horror of that.
Yeah.
I mean, from then on, she's got that little thing in her forehead
where the Dalek eye stalk came out.
And has been fighting off the Dalek inside her for 100s of years.
Yeah, yeah.
We talked about the structure of this episode earlier, but I quite
like the fact that it starts off quite plotty and quite light and
fun, and kind of gathers melancholy as it goes along.
And so by this, you know, that 1st scene with the church is really
played for laughs with the doctor and Tasha M. But when you come
back, suddenly, as you said, it is body horror and it is quite
grim and it feels like the episode stakes are getting higher.
And for me, it's a journey through this episode.
It starts off as your regular Christmas episode, and then it
becomes something much deeper and more affecting.
I think that the invention of trendsolore was a really, really
great one.
And it is completely tied up here.
But the doctor has a starting point on Galifre, and then an ending
point on Transalore, and we know that at some point the doctor's
going to die, like that's definitely a thing that has to happen.
And so having the doctor know about it here.
And I think 2 trezilore is a good word.
It is not a bad...
Such a great name.
And it's got the same rhythm as the name Gallifrey from Gallifrey
to Trezilore.
So the words work as a pair.
And it wasn't all sorted out in name of the doctor.
It's still out there waiting.
And so it turns out that this silly comedy planet with its
ridiculous inhabitants is trendsilore, which is going to turn into
this terrible battlefield.
And it's the Moffat thing as usual of saying, no, screw that.
This might be destiny.
It might be unalterable.
This might be where the story has to go, but we're not doing it.
We're going to have a better ending.
And I really like that.
The episode starts to slow down as it goes along.
And so it starts off quite frenetic and quite plotty, and you
think, is this going to go to the place where we're just dealing
with all of the plot threads and things like that, but it goes to
somewhere completely different.
The weight of what's about to happen kind of bears down on the
story, and it sort of narrows its focus down to the doctor and
Clara, and then eventually just to the doctor, and there's
something quite beautiful about it.
Speaking of beauty, I think it is beautifully, beautifully shot.
There's just some wonderful shots of the town Christmas.
Like a bit from the tower all coming into it that I just think are
just absolutely gorgeous.
And whether they'd been attacked by angels as well, that entire
sequence or wooden cybermen.
You know?
I just think that's one of the most beautiful things in this.
The ageing makeup.
Well, I think is done quite well.
Are we talking about Clara again?
I'll take that back.
I think she's at her best here and her hair Tod is wonderful.
Her hair is to die for, Peter.
And I actually really love this and day of the doctor as stories
for Clara after a strong start.
She then went companion generic for quite a few episodes and I
think these 2 have been really great for her character.
Yeah, she resolves both of them.
Doesn't she?
Yeah, I really do like them a lot.
And I kind of, by the way through this, I kind of wished that we'd
had another 5 or 6 episode run with her and Matt leading up to
this, right?
I don't know how you could do it, but I just thought after day the
doctor and the strength here as well, it would have been nice just
to see that relationship develop and her character develop without
the impossible girl thing hanging over ahead.
And of course, the timing doesn't work because, you know, one's in
November and one's in December and, you know, Matt's going.
So I think it's a shame that we didn't get at least another bit of
a run with them together.
She's kind of at her most Sarah Jane here, isn't she?
She's her most generic companion and she's brilliant. like the
performance powers it.
And Sean of all that kind of impossible girl, Blanus.
She's just there to be the best companion she can be.
And I'm on board with it.
That scene at the end, it's, remember she runs back to get a
Christmas cracker from the table, one of Linda's terrible
Christmas crackers, which have poems rather than jokes in them.
Oh, pay that one. so appallingly good.
So good.
And then the doctor is so frail that he can't pull the other end
of the Christmas cracker and she, you know, grabs his hand, grabs
his end of the cracker and helps him to do it.
And all of that, like the ageing makeup, I don't think ever really
works properly, but because Matt's performance changes 300 years
later and then at his death, like they're quite distinct
performances.
And because Matt does that so well, I think that helps sell the
ageing makeup, which I'm not a big fan of.
Absolutely.
I mean, it's a tour de force from Matt.
Yeah, yeah.
That'd be so great.
Yeah, so changing his performance throughout the entire story and
just little moments, like even when Clara comes back hugging the
TARDIS and that moment with them in front of it where they appear
to be cross and then they're not, you know?
It's beautiful.
And that line, no wonder she's late dragging you around.
We should think ourselves lucky, though, with this makeup, because
we could have got a CG Dobby doctor again.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, look, it's very old.
Well, even the tenant ageing makeup in that story is much worse
than this ageing makeup.
Tenant's not as much of an aesthetic old man as Matt is.
Yeah, it's also he's sort of shrivelled and weird and like
impossibly old and stuff.
And this is just Matt dying of old age.
And I think that's another interesting take as well, that the
doctor just lives on until Christmas is safe and then he can die.
And so choosing to have him die of old age.
Like, did you ever have one of those sort of mental lists?
You know, it was like, well, uh, old age and then sentenced to
regenerate by the time lords and then spider radiation and then
you know what I mean?
Did you ever have that?
Only ever in my head.
And then it's kind of like where he just dies of old age, defending
this thing.
He defends it for all of his life and then dies.
Yeah, we hit the end of time and my fanboy went, what, dying of
radiation twice.
Ben.
It's simply not allowed.
I really liken this, the throwback to one of the most affecting
moments in series one, which is the doctor sending Rose home
against her will.
And that packed a gut punch in parting of the ways.
And it does it again here twice.
Twice.
She's so thick.
And it hits differently because she falls for it.
Yeah, yeah.
It hits differently because Clara thwarts the 1st attempt and then
she and we get tricked again the 2nd time.
You're not expecting it.
And when she walks outside to see the towel block.
It just it really hits you.
I think that's one of the tower blocks that was used in the series
one.
Yeah, I think that's the parting of the way he's fake rose tower
book.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was one of the ones that was used for the power state.
Yeah.
And that line, I will never send you home again.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, she makes him say it and he just lies to her.
Well, he's not lying.
He's already done it Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
But you're right, Todd.
The episode looks absolutely beautiful.
That location is amazing.
And there's a really good look to the whole story.
The costumes are great.
So all the inhabitants of Christmas look really great and not in
you know, they could have been in space overalls, but they're
not.
It's got a really distinctive visual style this episode.
It's a little bit like a Christmas carol, I think.
It's sort of slightly Victorian.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Can we even get child actors?
Barnable.
Barnable, who's pretty good.
He is okay.
That's a great name.
It is fun book.
Is Bunnable a reference to 12th Night?
No, I think I think it's a reference to Barnable Edwards.
I think that's it.
I think it's just sort of changed the name Barnaby or Barnaby
slightly to make it a sort of Bob Holmes kind of space name, I
think.
Which are often the best space names.
Oh, yeah, I know, absolutely.
Well, like trends a lot.
You can imagine homes coming up with trends of law, because it
just has a real rhythm to it and seems like a real word.
This episode just wouldn't have been the same if, you know, the
doctor died on Rand's Core Av Coloss.
Exactly.
That village is, um, it's mostly real.
Wow, okay.
It's a, what do they call it?
like a Fibua, a fighting in built up areas, training facility from
the Cold War.
Oh, wow.
Based on like a German village.
Wow.
So when you say that, do you mean like a fake town that soldiers
storm to practice for real towns?
Yes.
Oh, I see.
And it's interesting you say that you enjoyed the angels in the
forest.
That's puzzlewood from Time of Angels.
Okay.
It's flesh and stone.
The forest in the middle of the space, yeah.
I remember our really interesting discussion about whether that
was studio or location.
It was location.
They took the door out on location to the wood.
Oh, wow.
So it really is a sort of greatest hits thing.
And I think that that's okay because it's not just cheap.
It's not just, oh, here are some set pieces that we've done
before.
It is, this is what the doctor's life is like and what he does.
And I think that's absolutely the perfect thing to do to celebrate
the end of an era.
I've forgotten about the Comedy Son Torrance, like their brief
appearance because we'd had the tickerbox list of everything else
and then, you know, we just have to have them in there as well.
And it's 2 Dan Starkeys, isn't it?
I think so.
Both from the same gene pool.
Yeah, the way they're shot by the church.
The church of the people means, what is it?
Church of the Silence apologises for your death.
And the relevant afterlives have been informed, I think, as well.
That's like, uh, you will experience a tinkling sensation and then
death.
Don't we have reverse the polarity of the neutron flowers?
No, so this is actually quite a clever beard and it's one last go
at the, it doesn't do wood joke.
It doesn't do turkey either.
So he tells the cyberman that he's reversed the polarity of the
weapon so that the weapon will fire back at him and then the
sideman goes, oh, okay, he's telling the truth, I will turn my
weapon around again.
But that's when the cyberman actually turns the weapon to face
himself.
So he tricks the sideman verbally into blowing a hole in the
middle of himself.
He doesn't actually do anything with the Sonic screwdriver because
it doesn't do wood.
I think that's sort of cool.
And I think the wooden cybermen are just a brilliant visual and
why not use them here?
Well, that likes doing different things with Simon, doesn't he?
So he had sort of, you know, the snapping helmet from Pandora
opens and just the arm that was crawling around by itself and now
they're wood.
Is that a very nice way to talk about Karen Gillan?
Now, now.
The crack in the wall is back.
Yeah.
And so we now know that that's been caused by Madame Cavarian.
So she sets series 5 in motion and it's the destiny paradox.
It's exactly what the people in Day of the Daleks experience that
their attempts to thought something actually end up causing it.
And so it's the one crack that's left.
Yes, which on the other side of that crack is Galifre.
Yes.
Which is why can bones.
What?
That's why Ken Bones is doing the voiceover.
It is.
It's Ken Bones.
Who's Ken Bones?
The general from Day of the Doctor.
Oh my goodness.
Is that?
Yeah.
Who will then show up in Hellbent?
Yeah.
Yeah, heaven sent.
And regenerates into Tsai Miller.
Yeah, wonderful.
So that's interesting, isn't it?
Because now what is at risk is that the time war starts again
after he fixed it.
Is it?
Yeah, yeah.
So he fixes it in the previous story in Day of the Doctor, and
then he goes searching for Gallifrey.
And I think that that is why it might have been nice to have
another season with Matt.
Switching for Gala.
Yeah, because that looks like where we're heading.
Oh, because Handel says the planet's Galaframe.
Therefore, he's sensing the crack or galafre behind in the other
realm or whatever it happens to be.
Yeah, the message is from Gallifrey.
So he assumes the planet is Gallifrey because the message is
Gallifrey.
And come on, we've got the seal of wrestle on... from the 5
doctors, you know?
I just think all these tie backs, like not only from this era, but
from way back, it's very fanboy and it's very clever.
And we've said it's a shopping list, but the structure of it, all
the lines, everything leaning to this point is just brilliant.
I think as well.
They could so easily have made the seal of Gallifrey look
completely different.
And it does look better than it did in the 5 doctors.
Ring of pearls.
Ring of pearls around the outside.
Like it's still supposed to be the same prop and he does steal it
from the master in the death zone on Gallifrey.
It such a perfect reference and they could have stuffed it up.
They could have metabolist 3D. That's what's so hilarious is that
pertby takes it, therefore he's got that seal from that point.
It's been in his pocket for over 300 years, 100s.
Just occasionally going, oh, oh.
The seal of Wrestleon, James.
I got the joke.
So what we have is the time war threatening to break out again
after we fixed it in the previous story.
And so that just makes this even more important.
And there's one moment, the musical cue, that incredible musical
cue.
Oh my god, the music in this.
Oh, it's good.
It's so good because Murray gets to do all of his themes for, you
know, Clara.
Murray's greatest hits.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He gets to do the Dalek theme.
He gets to do the music from Rings of Acherson when the
regeneration happens.
All of that stuff is all there.
But that triumphant moment where the crack appears in the sky, and
we get that this is gala frame music.
There is that, but then that moment just before when Clara is
talking to the crack and that swell of music behind it, if you
love him, and you should help him.
So good, isn't it?
Because they've been waiting there for 100s and 100s of years to
come through.
They're waiting for the doctor to give them his name and he
doesn't do it.
And then when Clara speaks to them, they go, yes, you're right, we
just can't get through this time, we have to help him.
And so they abandon.
They do the right thing and abandon their plans to come through
into our universe this way.
You know, they cause the problem and they decide to fix it after
Clara speaks to them.
And I also think that speech is unbelievably great because it
answers the name of the doctor question too.
His name is the doctor. that he's called that because that's what
he does.
That moment gets me every time.
I've seen people online talking about crying at moments in Doctor
Who too frequently in my opinion.
If you're after an emotional catharsis, This is not the program
for you.
You know, get a grip.
But I will pay that moment.
If you love him and you should, yeah, help him, that's speaking to
the audience as well, if you love him and you should.
And I think it also is testament to Jenna's acting.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Like we can say what we want about how the character's written.
But I just think she just continually nails it time and time
again.
She's emoting like hell to a green screen.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
She's talking to the wall, you know.
But even early, I think when, doesn't she say now it's time for
one last bow, 11th hour is over now.
The clock is striking 12. isn't that?
Is that her dialogue?
Does she read it?
She does.
She reads the the cracker message.
Yeah, from the fake poet.
I think that's so funny.
So the way that's set up is that Linda has brought these classy
Christmas crackers.
And, like, shout out to Linda for a second.
Moffat doesn't normally do the sort of Annalise Neres kind of
character.
But this is probably as close as he gets with Linda.
And we had all that stuff about Ellie, like Clara's mother dies
and we see the grave side and all of that sort of thing early in
series 7B, and now he's her father with this horrible, horrible
stepmother.
Such a shame we don't get those 5 or 6 episodes looking for
Galafray and having them as and Gran as supporting characters.
Hollow, big finish.
That's the missed opportunity for me is that the structure of
series 7. means that you get that mini season, then a big gap, then
the 2nd half, then the anniversary, then the Christmas special.
If only maybe they'd push things back and we could have had more
episodes between the anniversary and the next Christmas special. so
that there would be more room to breathe.
I guess the problem is, isn't it that Moffatt wasn't expecting
Smith to leave?
and everything was kind of falling to the ground a bit.
Even though he told him, I will only do 3 years and he was not
contracted after name of the doctor.
Yeah.
I mean, I could be wrong on this, but as far as I'm aware, Matt
wasn't contracted beyond his 3 seasons and so he did the day of
the doctor as a favour, basically.
He didn't have to do that. contractually obliged.
And I think Matt might have wanted to leave in Day of the Doctor
so he might have wanted to come back and go and Stephen kind of
twisted the friendship arm a little bit and said, no, no, let's do
another episode like Christmas episode.
I will write you a really good story.
And Matt, again, just because he's a good guy and he had
allegiance to the program, Stephen said, yeah, okay, I'll do
that.
And so we were really lucky that we got this episode to say
goodbye to Matt.
I agree with you.
I think everything that Stephen's been doing is leading up to this
50th anniversary.
All the problems with that and the way he got around it and how
that ties together.
And we've mentioned like this is, well, Nathan, you talked about
the fact that there's kind of Moffat failures within this and this
could be a 1st draft, but even if it is a 1st or 2nd draft, it's
still quite amazing how we can then leapfrog onto this and bring
all of this stuff together format for everybody and do it in a way
that I think perhaps only he or even Russell can do, you know?
Yeah, I mean, I think he does a better job than Russell does
because I think Russell, in the end of time, parts one and 2 is
running on fumes at that point as well.
And both Moffat and Russell can write really great stuff under
really trying circumstances.
But I have to say that I like this a lot more than I like the end
of time.
And I like the end of time quite a lot more than other people do, I
think.
That's your 1st draft.
Yeah, I mean, I 1st draft.
I think I think...
Yeah, I think there are the sort of things that disappear, like
artificers like voiceovers and stuff like that.
Oh, no, no.
But what I'm saying is this is a rush job. written at the 11th
hour.
You're struggling to get this out in time because you're running
on fumes and you've had all these production problems. is still
bloody good.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Like, that's testament to his ability as a writer.
Sandophus thing about how Bob Holmes could write Doctor Who in his
sleep and...
We know that.
I think that that's the same thing here.
Moffat's mission more...
Holmes ever did.
He hasn't quite reached that point here, but he will reach that
point in Capaldi's 2nd season where he's written more Doctor Who
than anyone else.
So I'm not willing to say that this is the best thing that Stephen
Moffat has ever written.
Comes close in parts, but I think what it is is the most heartfelt
thing.
It's not only about his love affair with the show and the doctor
as well as Clara's and ours, but it's informed by Stephen's
friendship with Matt.
And he's kind of his disconsolation at losing him from Doctor
Who.
And because Clara feels the same and because we in the audience
feel the same, the episode kind of transcends your typical goodbye
to a doctor.
It's about growing older and it's about change being the only
constant.
You know, that line, we all change. all different people through
our lives.
That's okay.
In this instance, in particular.
I don't think we're ready for things to change, and we're not
ready for Matt to leave the program, so it hurts on a level.
And so seeing him reduced to a frail old man who's kind of
shouting at the Daleks to get off his lawn.
Stephen just taps into that and there's no disguising the fact
that he's writing it from the heart.
Yeah.
It is that here is the doctor living out his life, fulfilling his
absolute mission statement and just getting the essence of the
program happening in the story.
There are moments in that final speech from Matt where it feels
like he can't look at the camera because he's on the verge of
tears.
That weird thing where he moves his hands around.
Like he does some very strange... he makes some very strange
choices in that final speech and I think they're great.
There's a little pause there before he embarks on the very final
bit of the speech where he just kind of looks at Clarence, like
he's gathering his strength to deliver those last lines.
It's so much better than what Capoldi gets to do, which, again, is
another, will get there, but it's another Moffat running on empty
script where he just relies on the fact that Capoldi can give a 10
minute speech with no problems at all and then just flings one in
his direction.
Whereas this one is about who the doctor is every bit as much as
Capoli's final speech is, but it's just a lot better.
And then we get the regeneration energy as like an atomic bomb.
Bigger and better than ever before.
Well, he's been holding it in.
You say that's what happens when you hold it in.
And it's the 1st regeneration that sort of happened outside the
TARDIS as well.
And I think that's really terrific.
It's just this tiny breath, isn't it?
He takes this.
It's this little breath, the crack opens, we get the music, that
little sort of tiny wisp of regeneration energy, and then it
suddenly it's like lava pouring out of his arms.
It's so tremendously gray.
That's because he got topped up with a fuel that he didn't
actually need.
No, I refuse to...
No, that's not Canada.
So it's that, you know, whole new cycle of regeneration.
That's something that we haven't talked about either.
We discover in this episode that Matt Smith has been the last
doctor all along.
And it's clear that that's just an idea that he's had for this
story because there is talk of the possibility of him regenerating
and things during the era.
So here we've decided that all along the doctor has known that
this is his last go at things.
Because we've got the war doctor and 10 had a...
Another generation.
Vanity issues.
And I think that's genius.
I think that's so good.
So making the doctor dying of old age.
Like, this is the doctor dying.
It's not just, oh, Matt Smith's doctor will just regenerate and
it'll be different.
This is him facing death in a way that Tenant wasn't.
Remember, Tennant had to give us that gloopy speech about how you
die and then another man saunters away in your place.
Here it's real actual death that he's facing.
But the other thing too is as fans.
Like if you just regenerated, then you'd be going, oh, well, this
is the last regeneration.
That's it.
So is that going to be sort of looming over the series or the
doctor and all of his moves for the next, you know, a couple of
years.
This way it's just sort of, well, yes, this is the last one and
now we've solved that problem.
He's got a whole new cycle.
Boom.
In fact, Russell sort of half-heartedly tries to solve the problem
in the Sarah Jane adventures because Clyde, I think, asks Matt
Smith's doctor.
Is it Matt Smith or tenants?
He wants both of them.
How many times do you get to generate?
And he says 506 or something.
And, you know, the 12 regeneration limit was a throwaway line of
exactly the same type, but it stuck and everyone, you know, it
happened during a, it happened.
Well, so it's in deadly assassin that it comes up, but then we
move to a version of the program that's in love with its own
mythos, and so it turns that Bob Holmes throwaway line into, you
know, an inviolable canonical rule.
And so it's nice that that goes away here.
We don't need it anymore.
And this is fanwank kind of done correctly.
Yeah, something, which, you know, it's just fan law, which the
wider public wouldn't care about, and which we really shouldn't
care about, but it becomes integral to the episode and it becomes
part of the dramatic thrust of the episode.
Well, I mean, it is the fact that the doctor is living out his
life.
He doesn't have a regeneration ahead of him.
He's staying Christmas for 100s of years and he doesn't get to
turn into someone else and walk away once the problem's...
I've had Christmas days like that.
Maybe this should have been called the 12 Regenerations for
Christmas.
It was originally going to be called 12th Night.
No, well, I think that that should have been what Capoldi's final
episode was called too.
I was slightly disappointed by Twice upon a Time.
Although that's nice.
This is such a lovely bookend to Matt Smith. would have been nice
if it was 11th hour, 12th night.
Yeah.
Yeah, that would have been.
So I think when you were saying earlier, Nathan, about Capaldi's
regeneration can't really stack up to this one.
I think making any comparison to this regeneration is pretty much
a difficult thing to do.
I think this might be the best.
And it starts from that moment where the doctor's on top of the of
the church tower.
And then it all quietens down and we're left in the aftermath and
you've just got Clara with a lot of trepidation kind of picking
her way towards the TARDIS and going inside and we share that
trepidation.
We don't know what we're going to find.
And, like, you can feel it swelling up inside you because you know
that you're approaching the moment of regeneration.
And I don't think we've ever had that kind of that emotional
catharsis.
Maybe Planet of the Spiders in the classic series when the TARDIS
reappears and Sarah Jane and the Brigadier are there.
You know the moment of generation is coming and it's almost
unbearable.
It's interesting because like, you know, as they shoot it with him
walking up the stairs in the Tartars.
Like, I just expected it.
I thought, well, is it?
or is it Capaldi?
Like, I mean, surely, is that is going to be Matt in the old age
makeup is going to be the Matt we know?
That energy's happened like based on what's happened twice before
then he should have changed.
So when you get that code of scene with him, you know, saying his
final lines, and then looking at the vision of the fake young
Amelia, walking around, running around, where because Caitlin's a
teenager.
She's too old.
Yeah, it's 82.
So it's like she's too small and she's too thin. for that.
Every time I see that, I kind of go, mm, I just, I just go, mm
could you have got a different child actor who was a bit more?
Or just shock it slightly differently?
Same body shape, like it just annoys me.
But then looking up and when Karen suddenly comes into shot, like
I mean, that just got to me.
Yeah, totally.
It's funny.
Do you think that we have Matt Smith in ageing makeup so that when
Matt regenerates into Capaldi, we're not kind of sort of horrified
by the fact that he's suddenly aged 30 years?
Nathan, I look in the mirror every morning, nothing horrifies me.
I don't Old manhands.
What did that happen?
Yeah, so I, like, I think that the decision he makes is right, that
he gives Matt a final scene without the ageing makeup so that he
can just be the Matt that we know, that he has some throwaway line
about how it's a reset or whatever, like who cares?
It's space reasons and we just deal with it really quickly.
The real reason is that we allow Matt to die of old age.
We allow his doctor to die of old age.
Then we get the mat that we know saying the farewell speech, and
then we suddenly get Capaldi.
But we get Karen, we get the bow tie coming off, you know, makes a
sound.
Not a digetic sound, but it's a sound in the music when he pulls
the tie off and drops and then false the floor.
Yeah, it's so good.
All of his instincts are right in this regeneration scene.
It's just, it's so gorgeously written and it kind of gives full
expression to Stephen's sadness, I think, at losing Matt.
It's the saddest regeneration.
If there's something that can be said about the production of this
era.
This early era with Moffatt is that it was a family production.
You know, like, he evidently got on very well with his leads, you
know, like Matt, Karen and Arthur and Stephen were like really
really close.
And really the show that he created in 2010 has been dying.
And I don't mean that in a negative way.
No, no, no.
Again, it's like pertly era kind of being stripped away a bit like
that.
Yeah, exactly.
This is an analogue to season 11, really. is that that version of
the show has been dying for the last season.
Like, this has been a really drawn out kind of stripping away of
these characters.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, we've lost River Song most recently.
We even lost like, you know, the Tartis console room that we knew
even though this one is better. you know, the bits being taken
away.
Yeah.
Yeah, maybe that's it.
Maybe that's why the closest analogue is the... is the per to a
era, because the per to year is the only era of the show with that
expanded regular cast and a home base.
It's the only era of the show that has enough that you could
gradually strip it away and still have a functioning show.
And when I said earlier that I think this is the saddest
regeneration, the only other contender, as I said, I think, is
planet of the spiders, and it's for the same reason.
Very true And then you get Peter appearing.
And I think that he looks really old. and haggard.
Like, I really think he's badly lit in this.
Like, I just think he just looks washed out and appalling and he
actually looks better later on in his run than at this point.
I don't know if it's the lighting of the Tardis or what.
But when I watch it again, it's like, oh, good grief.
And I love him, but I'm thinking, what do people are going to
think about this going from a really young hot doctor and having 2
young doctors in a row suddenly to somebody that is your grandpa.
He's 55.
Or closer to Maya.
I mean, that's the often cited fact is that he's the same age as
Hartnell was when he was cast as Doctor Who.
I agree.
Like he, he, he, it's not just the contrast between a 20 something
year old actor and a 50 something year old actor.
It is badly laid.
He looks so much better in series 8.
Right.
And that's not an ages thing.
Like, I just think it's, there's something going on with the
lighting, maybe.
Or the makeup or the makeup or they didn't have time.
It was a rush job.
I have to say, though, that I really like it.
You remember when Davison turns into Colin Baker and it happens
just like that, like he's lying down in his Davis and then he sits
up and suddenly his baker.
Yes, you're right.
That shocked me.
So much of the time it's like, boom.
Suddenly I went, oh, that's it?
That's the change.
Yeah, yeah.
Because we'd had all of that stuff before.
We couldn't do another one of him standing there with stuff
pouring out of him again because we already had that to destroy
the Tartars.
So having the doctor just kind of fall out of frame and then
suddenly, suddenly look up and it's Capoldi is so shocking and so
funny, I think.
With his attack eyebrows.
Yeah, yeah.
It's off putting.
Yeah.
And I think it is deliberately, though.
The same way that Colin Baker's initial appearance is meant to be
off putting.
It gives you the right energy for Capaldi's 1st moments because
he's really intense and it would be difficult to go to that from a
lying on the ground, energy pouring out of him.
You would need to snap into it.
Yeah, yeah.
And it is really funny.
I'm not sure about the kidneys line.
I think it is perhaps... somewhere...
I read somewhere that those lines were improvised.
Oh really?
Yeah, which seems strange.
Surely you wouldn't just leave your leading actor to improvise
their 1st line.
But the can you fly this thing, like ending it that way and just
the shock on Clara's face at what's just happened.
Which we will be discussing in the future.
We will. that's right But it may mean, you know, everything is set
up here, you know, um, Clara walking to the Tartars and finding
the phone.
Yeah, yeah, hanging the phone up.
Hanging the phone up.
Oh, and he must have fixed the phone.
When Handel said, that's right.
Yeah, he's fixed the phone.
So there's, you know, Stephen is clever and there's things in this
that will pay off next time.
And it's what I like when there's little things like this rather
than suddenly out of the blue, having to retrofit things into
plot.
When little things like this are set up and the woman in the shop
several episodes ago, moving forward, there's going to be a payoff
and I like that, you know?
You know, Stephen is sometimes labelled a clever clogs writer, and
actually, like I said, Todd, he's just clever.
His detractors try to make out that he's kind of a bit cynical and
a bit plot twisty and that's his thing and he can be.
He is those things.
But here he's those things, but he's also kind of genuine and
rawly emotional.
And I think that's what powers this episode for me.
It's what makes it one of the best.
Well, there, listener, that's all we have time for this
Christmas.
We'll be back on New Year's Day to bring the 11th hour to an end
in our Matt Smith retrospective.
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts
and you can keep up with us at flight through entirety on Facebook
at FTE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, Flightthrough
Entirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts
Bondfinger, Jody Interterterra, maximum power, and untitled Star
Trek project.
Until next time, may you never forget all the people that you used
to be.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
See you soon.
Merry Christmas.
Raggedy man.
Good night.
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd Wilby, Nathan
Bottomley, Peter Griffith, and James Selwood.
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lann.
This episode, to have a better ending, was recorded on the 11th of
September 2022 and released on Christmas Day.
Thank you, dear listener for joining us this year.
We'll see you again on New Year's Day, but until then, as always, a
happy Christmas to all of you at home.
I'm gonna press record.
That way, we have to talk.
The, uh, the tag is, uh, you talking about, no, you talking, like
I think Brandon says, because there's 2 grandfathers in Rings of
Ackerton, right?
And, uh, most gracious.
Exactly.
Because the doctor mentions that he's a grandfather, and then
there's grandfather.
And...
Is there a Susan joke in there somewhere?
Yes.
And there's also there's a Stephen a Dodo joke naturally as well.
But you, Brendan says, but the doctor's a giver, not a taker.
And then you repeat it in the most appallingly way, and then we go
back to talking about Miss Kislett's badge. have no memory of
this.
Well, Ms. Kislett's badge was nearly the title of the Rebels of
St.
Tron one.
He innocently goes, if you look closely at Miss Kislet's badge, I'm
like, oh what?
Yes, when I was listening to that, I went, oh my god.
That was nearly the title.
There was a lot that you cut out after that, wasn't there?
I did.
Yes, I did tone that down.
Yeah, we were very rude.
It makes it really funny, James, is that you're expiring in the
background.
You're going, oh, no.
It's not usually where I react.
I also talk about the pan Babylonians. that they're Babylonians
but they are not very picky about who they have sex with.
We have fun.
All right.
This is Rings of Ackerton, just a sec.
Time of the doctor.
Directed by Jamie Payne.
Yeah.
Who did hide?
Yeah.
We also slam hide in that episode.
The doctor's well directed, though.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I think Hyde looks pretty good.
Yeah.
If only something was happening.
Boring.
I tentative about saying this, but just put it when you pick that
up and put it down, make sure no one's talking.
I was probably not going to actually drink more of it.
Okay, all right.
Here goes.
Oh, order.
Nathan Todd, Peter James.
No, Nathan, what order?
Yeah.
Yeah, okay.
Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight for Entirety.