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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:32:15

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flighter Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast that got thrown out of this morning's Christmas service for taking the doctor's advice too seriously.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Peter.

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I'm James.

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Well, it's Christmas Day again, embarrassing relatives, unfunny Christmas crackers, and a turkey, so undercooked that a decent vet would give it an even chance.

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But all the time, far away on trendsolore, whole centuries have been passing.

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It's the time of the doctor.

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I think this is another one of those episodes where a lot of people really dislike it a lot, and we're going to find ourselves saying how great we think it is, is that right?

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I had a journey with this episode.

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The Todd experience, the Todd journey.

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It kind of was the Todd experience.

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We talked in our snowman episode about the importance of context to enjoying an episode.

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And so when I watched this first, I was at home in London on Christmas Day in 2013 and I wasn't blown away by it.

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I kind of channelled my inner Jeremy Bentham.

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I was like, yeah, a bit of a curate, say, good in parts.

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But, you know, the roof was leaking and I think Emmerdale had been tedious and the chicken was undercooked or whatever.

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And I just didn't have a particularly good time and I didn't appreciate it for what it was.

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But then I went back to it a couple of months later and I thought, I misjudged this.

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This is pretty good.

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And then I went back to it a year later and, you know, maybe something had changed.

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Maybe Emmerdale was good and maybe the chicken was cooked and the roof was fixed and stuff like that.

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But I thought, wow, this is really something special.

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Yeah, I love it.

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What about you, Tom?

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I think the anniversary sort of celebrations overshadowed this.

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So I was very much in the headspace of I loved day of the doctor, the 5 doctors reboot, and, of course, an adventure in time and space.

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Space and time. get it wrong every time.

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And so they were all very much in my thoughts as being just glorious trio of adventures.

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And then this came along and, you know, I knew Matt was going and it was sort of like, oh, yeah, I liked it, but it was just sort of like it didn't blow me away.

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It was sort of like we're just tying off all the loose ends and we're getting to the end and I was just a little fanboy waiting for the next doctor really to arrive.

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I feel a bit like sort of the morning after the party.

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Maybe.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So I just kind of, oh, yes, we're going to have.

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Oh, here are the Daleks and here are the cybermen.

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Here's the angels and here's the Santarans.

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Here's a crack in the wall.

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Yeah, and here are the silence.

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We're just putting everything we can in.

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And we don't have River song.

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We've got another character, strong female character who the doctor knows who can buy the Tartars, and I always quite liked it, but it was sort of like, well, I can't believe it's not River song or somebody else.

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And so it's sort of like, you know, Matt's not returning.

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We've got to just wrap everything up and yeah, so I, you know, I liked it.

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But now, I love it.

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Ding, ding.

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James.

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I also had the Todd experience, I think.

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You're one of many.

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It's very popular.

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At the time, like it wasn't a great time in my life, like I had just gone through a really rough breakup.

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And so I think everything I watched on television from that time was coloured by that and I've never gone back to rewatch it until last night.

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Wow, okay.

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Because it just was tarnished by a really negative time in my life.

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And I really, really enjoyed it.

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I, yes, I mean, I think we all talk about this. you know, it's Moffatt desperately trying to wrap up all the plot strands from the last few years.

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It feels like a shopping list. but it's wonderfully directed, gorgeously acted and fantastically scripted.

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I like it, and I think it is much better than most people say it is, but I do think there are elements of kind of Moffat failure mode visible in it.

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And so I think a lot of the sort of sitcom stuff at the beginning, the voiceover, like papering over centuries with just all of Brady's voiceover, all of those seem like the sort of thing that you would do if you were kind of flailing to get the script done. structurally it's a bit 1st draft.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I think what's there, though, is actually pretty great, and I think it needs to be kind of bumped up a bit, because this is a little bit like the girl in the fireplace in reverse, where you have Clara has a Christmas Day, in which she nips back to the planet Transzolore maybe 3 times at different times in the doctor's life.

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And so the doctor experiences centuries on this one day, but for Clara, it's just one Christmas day.

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And so I think it needed to be told from Clara's point of view rather than the doctor's point of view.

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And I guess it's Matt Smith Swan song and you want as much Matt in it as possible.

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But I do think that it kind of falls between 2 stools.

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It isn't quite what it could be.

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But I think what it is is pretty great.

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I mean, the plot is all a bit chuck it in and hold decides.

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But I honestly don't care.

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That's not what I'm here for in this episode.

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All of the answers that are given and all of the plot threads that are has to be said very loosely tied up.

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Don't really matter to me.

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I'm here for what the episode is for and that's Matt's farewell.

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Yeah, I don't think I would have minded if we didn't get those plot threads wrapped up.

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Same.

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And I don't quite know what Moffatt's doing here.

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Is he kind of making fun of the desire to have all of this sort of stuff sorted out?

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So, you know, he makes the silence genetically engineered priests.

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And, you know, he has all of Brady deal with all of the lingering plot threats from series 5 and 6 in just one reasonably short speech, which is kind of something that we could have worked out for ourselves.

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Maybe we didn't really need it.

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I think it's like the audience.

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We come to it, and we think, well, what about all those plot threads?

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And then when you're watching the episode, you realise it doesn't matter.

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What you're here for is the emotion of Matt leaving.

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Yeah.

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And so what the story does, I think, is it boils down who the doctor is just to one very, very simple scenario.

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And this is what the doctor's life has always been, isn't it?

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He's looking after some people, silly people who are wandering around, living their lives and just wave after wave of ridiculous Doctor Who monsters attack them, and the doctor fights them off, and then eventually he dies of old age.

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And in a sense, that's the doctor's story absolutely boiled down to its very essence.

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It's kind of like the pert we era, but instead of pert we defending the earth.

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It's the doctor defending this one village.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, and we just get one episode of it too.

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And it's Moffatt actually really, really properly breaking the connection between the show and the doctor's life.

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So Matt Smith is the doctor for maybe a millennium, right?

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So he is the doctor for sort of 300 years between seasons 5 and six.

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Then we get 300 years. in the middle here.

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And then we get another whole bunch of 100s of years with the old doctor.

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And so the doctor's life looks nothing like the program.

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That's no way to talk about pinnacle.

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And handles is the doctor's longer serving companion.

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He's the doctor's companion for longer than anyone else at all.

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Yeah, more charisma than Vicky and prettier than Dodo.

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So handles is played, can I say?

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By my celebrity boyfriend, Cave Novak, who plays Nandor, the Relentless, in what we do in the shadows?

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Who's your ex, Chameleon?

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Gerald Flood was my ex.

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Yeah, and he's terrific.

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He's really good.

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It's a very kind of thankless part, but that bit where he dies, you know, waiting for the dawn is actually so great.

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It's got more impact than Adrick.

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Yeah, it's really good.

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It's because it's mad.

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You're on a role with one minus, Peter.

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I've got more impact than Patrick and he crashed into the dinosaur.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And he still didn't give any good information on the way out.

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No, it's that thing.

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It's the callback where the last thing that handles says is the, you know, the reminder to connect the telephone to the console again.

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Clearly the random number was something like 157000000 um minutes between the doctor giving the reminder and him finally giving it.

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That's the end.

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And then Matt, the Matt, the way that Matt says, thanks, mate, or good on you, mate, or something like that is so touching and so understated.

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It is actually, it's kind of Moffatt kind of going, look, I can make you cry when a stupid cyberman head prop dies.

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Look at what I am capable of.

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Yeah, it's like, I think you've got a tear now, wait another 15 minutes.

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Obviously, Stephen got my memo that he had to wrap up all the plot.

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And I lived for that.

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You were here for.

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That's what I was here for.

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And when that happened, it was like, oh, thank you.

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Just hand it to me on a plate.

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You've done a wonderful job.

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I don't care about anything else.

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But it's funny, isn't it, that it's done so quickly.

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And so efficiently.

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There wasn't really that much dangling, turns out.

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No, but I mean...

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I guess in the whole episode, you've got all the big monsters.

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Yeah.

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And again, Stephen's not really interested in them.

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No.

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And I'm all about the hair, really.

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Can I just say Matt's hair, that wig is absolutely appalling.

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I just want to say that all I could...

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What about Clara's?

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Did you spot it as a wig or did you know going in that he would be wearing a wig?

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I think we knew, didn't we?

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We knew, and at the time, I didn't mind it, but coming back to it, this time, all I could fixate on was the week.

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It was so stupid.

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What do you rips it off?

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Karen is wearing a wig, yes.

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Because she'd been nebula.

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And the doctor had been in something else.

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Matt had been in something else and so he had to have a buzz card or something like that.

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But it's kind of hilarious how how Stephen Moffatt just goes, all right, we're putting it in and we're going to make a joke about it.

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And the idea that the doctor was bored, and so he shaved his head just out of sheer bored.

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Yeah, like a perian mindwalk.

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Oh, bull.

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It's all happening here, everyone.

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But he does have delicate eyebrows.

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The delicate.

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So do I. He's really kind of a little bit embarrassed by that.

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No, they're just delicate.

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It's really funny.

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And also the thing where Clara says that the doctor has ears like rocket fins and he really likes that.

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Oh, I know.

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It's so great.

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But I'm wearing a wig thing.

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Like the way that the truth field is established is, again, in another really, really funny sitcom scene where he meets those people.

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They've got their stories all sorted out.

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And then the doctor just blurts out his entire backstory and then ends with, and I'm wearing a wig.

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It's so good.

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What's your name?

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Bossy control freak.

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He just has this snack, doesn't he?

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To be able to give you that humour.

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And give you information and set it all up.

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Like, it's just the way he covers his mouth like a child when he's just said something.

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It's such an unselfconscious performance, like right to the end. so good And the nudity thing, like the nakedness thing is clearly that Moffat went, oh, Matt's leaving, we have to have a scene where he's naked because all the fans will love it.

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Yeah, yeah, better on Corey McMahon.

183
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But also, he kind of thinks, you know, it's he described Matt Smith as an old man in the body of an underwear model.

184
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I'm sure that I've heard him say me as well.

185
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I wonder if Sheila Reid will be as amorous to you as she was to hear.

186
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Oh my god, I love her.

187
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They'll be coming round for you, coating twice and using someone else's voting box, both criminal offences.

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She is so good in that.

189
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And so we've got the nudity scene, which is just clearly just wanted to...

190
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But what they've done is they've made this stupid rule that you have to be naked at church for kind of no reason and then we just get all this sort of comedy nonsense about the nudity.

191
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And it's so hilarious where we come in and, you know, watching it now knowing what's going on.

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The doctor has created hologram clothes that are projected directly onto Clara's visual cortex, but not onto anyone else's.

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And so when he walks in, everyone's reaction to seeing him naked, which we don't know is happening at the time is so funny, particularly the father. he's hilarious Yeah, because Matt's like right next to him so he can't look a little to his right.

194
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Yeah, yeah, he's trying to look away.

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It's so wonderful.

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It's just terrific Is that really the same dad who was quite nice in the wings of Aakutan?

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It's a it's recast. isn't it Well, yes, isn't the dad in the rings a contend, like young?

198
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Young and short.

199
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He seems quite nice in the Rings of Actan. a bit of curmudgeon.

200
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Steens are not interested in Clara's parenting really.

201
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He's not interested in anyone's parents.

202
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Well, that's right, James.

203
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And so here again, it's just played for comedy.

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I do love the fact that the stepmother is just not liked by Clara or Gran, like that's very funny.

205
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But I do want to say something about like Stephen makes this whole nudity thing.

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Stephen makes things quite sexual and quite adult, right, in some ways.

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And I actually think, oh, I'm such a prude.

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Like, I do find it funny their reactions and everything like that, but I just kind of go, oh, really?

209
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Like you have to make the doctor that stupid as to not, like we're going to Clara's family, Christmas.

210
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Surely they're going to walk around on the street.

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Surely he would not be that dumb.

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Well, he notices that it's causing some tension, the fact that he's naked.

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He eventually notices.

214
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But you know what I'm you know what I'm saying?

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Like surely would just say, okay, I'll just put a holographic thing on me and everybody will see it.

216
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Were you on board with the turkey being naked?

217
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I mean, the whole reason he's naked is for that comedy scene.

218
00:16:12.179 --> 00:16:13.259
I know, I know.

219
00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:13.919
I'm just being.

220
00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:14.759
Yeah, yeah.

221
00:16:14.820 --> 00:16:15.600
I'm just being mean.

222
00:16:15.659 --> 00:16:16.740
No, no.

223
00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:21.720
But where I just kind of, like, I just think it's a bit nap, like, and I kind of bit over it.

224
00:16:21.779 --> 00:16:27.299
Like I just went, oh, we have to have a comedy mat moment where he's like, oh, all goofy and all that sort of stuff.

225
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:28.620
It'll be over quite soon.

226
00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:29.460
Do you know what I mean?

227
00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:31.080
Yeah, that's nearly done.

228
00:16:31.139 --> 00:16:35.039
So I'm just being a bit negative for a moment, but I do find it quite funny.

229
00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:41.519
Do you think Pertwee's doctor would occasionally just get up in the morning and forget to put clothes on while he was...

230
00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:45.059
When he's in that shower and Spearhead from Space, he's fully clothed. just don't know.

231
00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:45.899
That's right.

232
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:49.200
I think that's the really funny.

233
00:16:49.259 --> 00:16:50.820
Joe Grant never minded.

234
00:16:50.879 --> 00:17:00.419
So we have this whole joke about nudity and the doctor and Clara both being naked, but we never see it because we see the projected clothes that aren't there.

235
00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:02.399
I just hear them talking about being naked.

236
00:17:02.460 --> 00:17:09.839
And again, it's Moffat playing with the difference between a television show and what's happening to the characters, which is kind of fun.

237
00:17:10.019 --> 00:17:11.400
Yeah.

238
00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:20.400
And like, you know, when they go to church and, you know, on Christmas morning. you know, thanking them for being naked and seeing chambers.

239
00:17:20.700 --> 00:17:30.240
Well, I mean, Jenna's got her arms crossed across her despite the fact that we see her wearing that top, particularly when she's menaced by the silence.

240
00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:31.559
We see her with her arms crossed.

241
00:17:31.619 --> 00:17:37.259
So she's playing it as if she thinks of herself being naked, which I think is kind of cute.

242
00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:47.579
So Tasha Lem, I guess, is here to kind of give some sort of background to the church that we 1st see in time of angels.

243
00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:51.299
She's kind of like the good flip side of Madame Cavarian, isn't she?

244
00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:52.259
Yeah, yeah.

245
00:17:52.319 --> 00:18:00.599
So, and we learn that the Kavarian sect broke off from the church and travel back in time to fiddle about in series 6, I guess.

246
00:18:01.140 --> 00:18:12.539
I kind of love that whole, I know it's him wrapping up all these plot devices, but the fact that his last story is tied to his 1st season.

247
00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:16.079
Yeah, it's all the way back to series five, isn't it?

248
00:18:16.140 --> 00:18:16.380
Yeah.

249
00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:16.740
Yeah.

250
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:19.740
And that series 6 causes series five.

251
00:18:19.740 --> 00:18:20.880
Yes.

252
00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:21.299
Yeah.

253
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:23.819
Yeah Yes, that's really clever, isn't it?

254
00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:25.980
It's interesting.

255
00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:32.339
I think her performance is absolutely wonderful and it's such a shame that we don't get to see her earlier than what we do.

256
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:36.779
We only get this one story, you know, and so she's not River song.

257
00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:38.400
She's not Madame Vastra.

258
00:18:38.460 --> 00:18:46.200
She's the next female in the doctor's life who's slightly older than what he is and knows how to pilot the TARDIS.

259
00:18:46.259 --> 00:18:49.319
Yeah, it has to be said she's not a 1000000 miles from River song.

260
00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:51.960
And there's sexual tension between them.

261
00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:53.160
Oh, definitely.

262
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:54.240
Well, yes, certainly.

263
00:18:54.299 --> 00:18:56.099
And is it all over, babe?

264
00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:58.440
Is it all of Brady?

265
00:18:58.559 --> 00:18:59.519
Yeah, all of Brady.

266
00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:01.259
I've seen her in something recently, I think.

267
00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:02.700
Yeah, she's in Star Trek Picard.

268
00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:06.180
She's the Irish Romulan in Star Trek.

269
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:07.619
She's only 12 years old.

270
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:08.519
She's against ageing.

271
00:19:08.579 --> 00:19:10.440
She's fabulous in that.

272
00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:11.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

273
00:19:11.579 --> 00:19:12.000
Yeah, yeah.

274
00:19:12.059 --> 00:19:13.319
I kept thinking, where have I seen you before?

275
00:19:13.380 --> 00:19:14.400
And then when I made back to this.

276
00:19:14.460 --> 00:19:15.059
Yeah.

277
00:19:15.059 --> 00:19:15.420
Yeah.

278
00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:24.660
No, I think she's a great character and it's such a shame that she has to be turned has to die as a dalek. and is only in this one episode.

279
00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:26.579
I really like that too.

280
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:28.140
That's so moffity, though, isn't it?

281
00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:29.880
It's just like, and then I died.

282
00:19:29.940 --> 00:19:31.799
Oh, funny, the things that sleep your mind.

283
00:19:31.859 --> 00:19:33.660
Yeah, I died screaming your name.

284
00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:35.460
Yeah.

285
00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:35.880
Yeah.

286
00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:36.599
Yeah.

287
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:39.539
And apparently she's died over and over again there.

288
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:54.839
But again, that's series 7, right, back to the beginning of series 7, where the Dalek suddenly can live inside people, which, again, is sort of slightly stupid or whatever and not anything that we've ever gone back to, but it does make for pretty great visuals, I think.

289
00:19:54.900 --> 00:19:57.180
And also the body horror of that.

290
00:19:57.240 --> 00:19:57.779
Yeah.

291
00:19:57.839 --> 00:19:58.380
Yeah.

292
00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:04.079
I mean, from then on, she's got that little thing in her forehead where the Dalek eye stalk came out.

293
00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:07.559
And has been fighting off the Dalek inside her for 100s of years.

294
00:20:07.619 --> 00:20:08.519
Yeah, yeah.

295
00:20:20.579 --> 00:20:30.960
We talked about the structure of this episode earlier, but I quite like the fact that it starts off quite plotty and quite light and fun, and kind of gathers melancholy as it goes along.

296
00:20:31.019 --> 00:20:44.460
And so by this, you know, that 1st scene with the church is really played for laughs with the doctor and Tasha M. But when you come back, suddenly, as you said, it is body horror and it is quite grim and it feels like the episode stakes are getting higher.

297
00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:47.039
And for me, it's a journey through this episode.

298
00:20:47.099 --> 00:20:52.259
It starts off as your regular Christmas episode, and then it becomes something much deeper and more affecting.

299
00:20:52.500 --> 00:20:59.579
I think that the invention of trendsolore was a really, really great one.

300
00:20:59.579 --> 00:21:02.400
And it is completely tied up here.

301
00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:17.160
But the doctor has a starting point on Galifre, and then an ending point on Transalore, and we know that at some point the doctor's going to die, like that's definitely a thing that has to happen.

302
00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:19.680
And so having the doctor know about it here.

303
00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:22.619
And I think 2 trezilore is a good word.

304
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:23.640
It is not a bad...

305
00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:25.079
Such a great name.

306
00:21:25.140 --> 00:21:29.819
And it's got the same rhythm as the name Gallifrey from Gallifrey to Trezilore.

307
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:32.460
So the words work as a pair.

308
00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:36.059
And it wasn't all sorted out in name of the doctor.

309
00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:37.980
It's still out there waiting.

310
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:47.519
And so it turns out that this silly comedy planet with its ridiculous inhabitants is trendsilore, which is going to turn into this terrible battlefield.

311
00:21:47.579 --> 00:21:51.960
And it's the Moffat thing as usual of saying, no, screw that.

312
00:21:52.019 --> 00:21:54.779
This might be destiny.

313
00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:56.519
It might be unalterable.

314
00:21:56.579 --> 00:21:59.940
This might be where the story has to go, but we're not doing it.

315
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:02.279
We're going to have a better ending.

316
00:22:02.339 --> 00:22:03.839
And I really like that.

317
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:08.700
The episode starts to slow down as it goes along.

318
00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:19.500
And so it starts off quite frenetic and quite plotty, and you think, is this going to go to the place where we're just dealing with all of the plot threads and things like that, but it goes to somewhere completely different.

319
00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:30.420
The weight of what's about to happen kind of bears down on the story, and it sort of narrows its focus down to the doctor and Clara, and then eventually just to the doctor, and there's something quite beautiful about it.

320
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:36.720
Speaking of beauty, I think it is beautifully, beautifully shot.

321
00:22:36.779 --> 00:22:40.259
There's just some wonderful shots of the town Christmas.

322
00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:46.200
Like a bit from the tower all coming into it that I just think are just absolutely gorgeous.

323
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:52.079
And whether they'd been attacked by angels as well, that entire sequence or wooden cybermen.

324
00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:52.859
You know?

325
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:56.579
I just think that's one of the most beautiful things in this.

326
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:58.619
The ageing makeup.

327
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:00.480
Well, I think is done quite well.

328
00:23:00.539 --> 00:23:02.339
Are we talking about Clara again?

329
00:23:02.940 --> 00:23:04.680
I'll take that back.

330
00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:07.259
I think she's at her best here and her hair Tod is wonderful.

331
00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:09.299
Her hair is to die for, Peter.

332
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:15.240
And I actually really love this and day of the doctor as stories for Clara after a strong start.

333
00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:23.039
She then went companion generic for quite a few episodes and I think these 2 have been really great for her character.

334
00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:25.079
Yeah, she resolves both of them.

335
00:23:25.140 --> 00:23:25.680
Doesn't she?

336
00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:27.839
Yeah, I really do like them a lot.

337
00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:38.099
And I kind of, by the way through this, I kind of wished that we'd had another 5 or 6 episode run with her and Matt leading up to this, right?

338
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:51.720
I don't know how you could do it, but I just thought after day the doctor and the strength here as well, it would have been nice just to see that relationship develop and her character develop without the impossible girl thing hanging over ahead.

339
00:23:51.779 --> 00:23:58.259
And of course, the timing doesn't work because, you know, one's in November and one's in December and, you know, Matt's going.

340
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:03.539
So I think it's a shame that we didn't get at least another bit of a run with them together.

341
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:06.839
She's kind of at her most Sarah Jane here, isn't she?

342
00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:12.599
She's her most generic companion and she's brilliant. like the performance powers it.

343
00:24:12.660 --> 00:24:17.099
And Sean of all that kind of impossible girl, Blanus.

344
00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:20.160
She's just there to be the best companion she can be.

345
00:24:20.220 --> 00:24:21.599
And I'm on board with it.

346
00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:34.140
That scene at the end, it's, remember she runs back to get a Christmas cracker from the table, one of Linda's terrible Christmas crackers, which have poems rather than jokes in them.

347
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:37.859
Oh, pay that one. so appallingly good.

348
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:39.240
So good.

349
00:24:39.299 --> 00:24:51.119
And then the doctor is so frail that he can't pull the other end of the Christmas cracker and she, you know, grabs his hand, grabs his end of the cracker and helps him to do it.

350
00:24:51.180 --> 00:25:06.299
And all of that, like the ageing makeup, I don't think ever really works properly, but because Matt's performance changes 300 years later and then at his death, like they're quite distinct performances.

351
00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:12.720
And because Matt does that so well, I think that helps sell the ageing makeup, which I'm not a big fan of.

352
00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:13.680
Absolutely.

353
00:25:13.740 --> 00:25:15.720
I mean, it's a tour de force from Matt.

354
00:25:15.779 --> 00:25:16.859
Yeah, yeah.

355
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:18.420
That'd be so great.

356
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:33.119
Yeah, so changing his performance throughout the entire story and just little moments, like even when Clara comes back hugging the TARDIS and that moment with them in front of it where they appear to be cross and then they're not, you know?

357
00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:34.440
It's beautiful.

358
00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:36.900
And that line, no wonder she's late dragging you around.

359
00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:45.420
We should think ourselves lucky, though, with this makeup, because we could have got a CG Dobby doctor again.

360
00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:46.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

361
00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:48.119
Oh, look, it's very old.

362
00:25:48.180 --> 00:25:55.140
Well, even the tenant ageing makeup in that story is much worse than this ageing makeup.

363
00:25:55.259 --> 00:25:59.039
Tenant's not as much of an aesthetic old man as Matt is.

364
00:25:59.099 --> 00:26:03.420
Yeah, it's also he's sort of shrivelled and weird and like impossibly old and stuff.

365
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:05.339
And this is just Matt dying of old age.

366
00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:18.539
And I think that's another interesting take as well, that the doctor just lives on until Christmas is safe and then he can die.

367
00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:22.259
And so choosing to have him die of old age.

368
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:25.019
Like, did you ever have one of those sort of mental lists?

369
00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:35.819
You know, it was like, well, uh, old age and then sentenced to regenerate by the time lords and then spider radiation and then... you know what I mean?

370
00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:36.539
Did you ever have that?

371
00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:37.680
Only ever in my head.

372
00:26:38.099 --> 00:26:42.180
And then it's kind of like where he just dies of old age, defending this thing.

373
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.240
He defends it for all of his life and then dies.

374
00:26:45.299 --> 00:26:49.200
Yeah, we hit the end of time and my fanboy went, what, dying of radiation twice.

375
00:26:49.259 --> 00:26:49.740
Ben.

376
00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:53.279
It's simply not allowed.

377
00:26:54.119 --> 00:27:04.380
I really liken this, the throwback to one of the most affecting moments in series one, which is the doctor sending Rose home against her will.

378
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:07.380
And that packed a gut punch in parting of the ways.

379
00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:09.839
And it does it again here twice.

380
00:27:09.900 --> 00:27:10.380
Twice.

381
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:12.240
She's so thick.

382
00:27:12.299 --> 00:27:15.359
And it hits differently because she falls for it.

383
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:16.259
Yeah, yeah.

384
00:27:16.259 --> 00:27:24.299
It hits differently because Clara thwarts the 1st attempt and then she and we get tricked again the 2nd time.

385
00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:25.200
You're not expecting it.

386
00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:27.660
And when she walks outside to see the towel block.

387
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:28.680
It just it really hits you.

388
00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:32.460
I think that's one of the tower blocks that was used in the series one.

389
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:36.480
Yeah, I think that's the parting of the way he's fake rose tower book.

390
00:27:36.539 --> 00:27:36.779
Yeah.

391
00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:40.500
Yeah, it was one of the ones that was used for the power state.

392
00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:40.859
Yeah.

393
00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:41.460
Yeah.

394
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:44.579
And that line, I will never send you home again.

395
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:45.359
Yes.

396
00:27:45.420 --> 00:27:45.960
Yeah.

397
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:49.799
Yeah, she makes him say it and he just lies to her.

398
00:27:49.859 --> 00:27:50.940
Well, he's not lying.

399
00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:53.099
He's already done it Yeah, yeah.

400
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:53.640
Yeah.

401
00:27:53.700 --> 00:27:54.299
Yeah.

402
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:56.160
But you're right, Todd.

403
00:27:56.220 --> 00:27:58.200
The episode looks absolutely beautiful.

404
00:27:58.259 --> 00:27:59.519
That location is amazing.

405
00:27:59.579 --> 00:28:02.519
And there's a really good look to the whole story.

406
00:28:02.579 --> 00:28:03.660
The costumes are great.

407
00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:10.559
So all the inhabitants of Christmas look really great and not in, you know, they could have been in space overalls, but they're not.

408
00:28:10.619 --> 00:28:13.859
It's got a really distinctive visual style this episode.

409
00:28:13.980 --> 00:28:17.339
It's a little bit like a Christmas carol, I think.

410
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:18.779
It's sort of slightly Victorian.

411
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:19.559
Yeah, yeah.

412
00:28:19.619 --> 00:28:20.039
Yeah, yeah.

413
00:28:20.099 --> 00:28:20.460
Yeah.

414
00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:21.900
Can we even get child actors?

415
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:22.619
Barnable.

416
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:23.940
Barnable, who's pretty good.

417
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:25.200
He is okay.

418
00:28:25.259 --> 00:28:26.039
That's a great name.

419
00:28:26.099 --> 00:28:27.180
It is fun book.

420
00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:29.640
Is Bunnable a reference to 12th Night?

421
00:28:29.700 --> 00:28:32.519
No, I think I think it's a reference to Barnable Edwards.

422
00:28:32.700 --> 00:28:34.440
I think that's it.

423
00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:43.380
I think it's just sort of changed the name Barnaby or Barnaby slightly to make it a sort of Bob Holmes kind of space name, I think.

424
00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:45.359
Which are often the best space names.

425
00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:46.680
Oh, yeah, I know, absolutely.

426
00:28:46.740 --> 00:28:47.759
Well, like trends a lot.

427
00:28:47.819 --> 00:28:54.180
You can imagine homes coming up with trends of law, because it just has a real rhythm to it and seems like a real word.

428
00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:59.819
This episode just wouldn't have been the same if, you know, the doctor died on Rand's Core Av Coloss.

429
00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:00.839
Exactly.

430
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:19.859
That village is, um, it's mostly real.

431
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:21.059
Wow, okay.

432
00:29:21.059 --> 00:29:22.859
It's a, what do they call it?

433
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:29.279
like a Fibua, a fighting in built up areas, training facility from the Cold War.

434
00:29:29.339 --> 00:29:30.000
Oh, wow.

435
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:32.940
Based on like a German village.

436
00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:33.599
Wow.

437
00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:39.960
So when you say that, do you mean like a fake town that soldiers storm to practice for real towns?

438
00:29:40.019 --> 00:29:40.500
Yes.

439
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:41.039
Oh, I see.

440
00:29:41.220 --> 00:29:47.640
And it's interesting you say that you enjoyed the angels in the forest.

441
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:51.599
That's puzzlewood from Time of Angels.

442
00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:52.740
Okay.

443
00:29:52.740 --> 00:29:54.119
It's flesh and stone.

444
00:29:54.180 --> 00:29:56.700
The forest in the middle of the space, yeah.

445
00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:00.539
I remember our really interesting discussion about whether that was studio or location.

446
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:03.180
It was location.

447
00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:05.819
They took the door out on location to the wood.

448
00:30:05.940 --> 00:30:07.079
Oh, wow.

449
00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:09.839
So it really is a sort of greatest hits thing.

450
00:30:09.900 --> 00:30:13.440
And I think that that's okay because it's not just cheap.

451
00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:17.339
It's not just, oh, here are some set pieces that we've done before.

452
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:23.640
It is, this is what the doctor's life is like and what he does.

453
00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:29.400
And I think that's absolutely the perfect thing to do to celebrate the end of an era.

454
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:40.019
I've forgotten about the Comedy Son Torrance, like their brief appearance because we'd had the tickerbox list of everything else and then, you know, we just have to have them in there as well.

455
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:42.240
And it's 2 Dan Starkeys, isn't it?

456
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:42.960
I think so.

457
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:44.759
Both from the same gene pool.

458
00:30:44.819 --> 00:30:48.599
Yeah, the way they're shot by the church.

459
00:30:49.140 --> 00:30:51.960
The church of the people means, what is it?

460
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:54.779
Church of the Silence apologises for your death.

461
00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:58.859
And the relevant afterlives have been informed, I think, as well.

462
00:30:59.220 --> 00:31:04.200
That's like, uh, you will experience a tinkling sensation and then death.

463
00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:08.880
Don't we have reverse the polarity of the neutron flowers?

464
00:31:08.940 --> 00:31:16.079
No, so this is actually quite a clever beard and it's one last go at the, it doesn't do wood joke.

465
00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:18.000
It doesn't do turkey either.

466
00:31:18.059 --> 00:31:35.759
So he tells the cyberman that he's reversed the polarity of the weapon so that the weapon will fire back at him and then the sideman goes, oh, okay, he's telling the truth, I will turn my weapon around again.

467
00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:40.259
But that's when the cyberman actually turns the weapon to face himself.

468
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:44.759
So he tricks the sideman verbally into blowing a hole in the middle of himself.

469
00:31:44.819 --> 00:31:49.500
He doesn't actually do anything with the Sonic screwdriver because it doesn't do wood.

470
00:31:49.619 --> 00:31:51.480
I think that's sort of cool.

471
00:31:51.539 --> 00:31:56.640
And I think the wooden cybermen are just a brilliant visual and why not use them here?

472
00:31:56.700 --> 00:32:00.059
Well, that likes doing different things with Simon, doesn't he?

473
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:06.960
So he had sort of, you know, the snapping helmet from Pandora opens and just the arm that was crawling around by itself and now they're wood.

474
00:32:07.019 --> 00:32:09.779
Is that a very nice way to talk about Karen Gillan?

475
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:11.039
Now, now.

476
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:14.279
The crack in the wall is back.

477
00:32:14.339 --> 00:32:15.480
Yeah.

478
00:32:15.539 --> 00:32:19.500
And so we now know that that's been caused by Madame Cavarian.

479
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:25.259
So she sets series 5 in motion and it's the destiny paradox.

480
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:32.880
It's exactly what the people in Day of the Daleks experience that their attempts to thought something actually end up causing it.

481
00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:35.039
And so it's the one crack that's left.

482
00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:41.339
Yes, which on the other side of that crack is Galifre.

483
00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:42.000
Yes.

484
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:44.099
Which is why can bones.

485
00:32:44.220 --> 00:32:45.299
What?

486
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:47.099
That's why Ken Bones is doing the voiceover.

487
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:47.940
It is.

488
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:48.660
It's Ken Bones.

489
00:32:48.779 --> 00:32:49.740
Who's Ken Bones?

490
00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:51.960
The general from Day of the Doctor.

491
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:52.859
Oh my goodness.

492
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:53.579
Is that?

493
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:54.059
Yeah.

494
00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:56.039
Who will then show up in Hellbent?

495
00:32:56.099 --> 00:32:56.519
Yeah.

496
00:32:56.579 --> 00:32:57.420
Yeah, heaven sent.

497
00:32:57.480 --> 00:32:59.220
And regenerates into Tsai Miller.

498
00:32:59.279 --> 00:32:59.940
Yeah, wonderful.

499
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:02.519
So that's interesting, isn't it?

500
00:33:02.579 --> 00:33:07.920
Because now what is at risk is that the time war starts again after he fixed it.

501
00:33:08.099 --> 00:33:09.539
Is it?

502
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:10.859
Yeah, yeah.

503
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:17.700
So he fixes it in the previous story in Day of the Doctor, and then he goes searching for Gallifrey.

504
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:24.900
And I think that that is why it might have been nice to have another season with Matt.

505
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:26.940
Switching for Gala.

506
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:28.559
Yeah, because that looks like where we're heading.

507
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:31.740
Oh, because Handel says the planet's Galaframe.

508
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:38.099
Therefore, he's sensing the crack or galafre behind in the other realm or whatever it happens to be.

509
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:40.380
Yeah, the message is from Gallifrey.

510
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:44.039
So he assumes the planet is Gallifrey because the message is Gallifrey.

511
00:33:44.099 --> 00:33:49.980
And come on, we've got the seal of wrestle on... from the 5 doctors, you know?

512
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:59.519
I just think all these tie backs, like not only from this era, but from way back, it's very fanboy and it's very clever.

513
00:33:59.579 --> 00:34:07.920
And we've said it's a shopping list, but the structure of it, all the lines, everything leaning to this point is just brilliant.

514
00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:09.599
I think as well.

515
00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:13.800
They could so easily have made the seal of Gallifrey look completely different.

516
00:34:13.860 --> 00:34:16.559
And it does look better than it did in the 5 doctors.

517
00:34:16.619 --> 00:34:18.239
Ring of pearls.

518
00:34:18.239 --> 00:34:19.739
Ring of pearls around the outside.

519
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:24.599
Like it's still supposed to be the same prop and he does steal it from the master in the death zone on Gallifrey.

520
00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:27.480
It such a perfect reference and they could have stuffed it up.

521
00:34:27.539 --> 00:34:36.300
They could have metabolist 3D. That's what's so hilarious is that pertby takes it, therefore he's got that seal from that point.

522
00:34:36.420 --> 00:34:39.360
It's been in his pocket for over 300 years, 100s.

523
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:40.980
Just occasionally going, oh, oh.

524
00:34:40.980 --> 00:34:46.500
The seal of Wrestleon, James.

525
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:48.059
I got the joke.

526
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:56.699
So what we have is the time war threatening to break out again after we fixed it in the previous story.

527
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:59.219
And so that just makes this even more important.

528
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:03.960
And there's one moment, the musical cue, that incredible musical cue.

529
00:35:04.019 --> 00:35:05.219
Oh my god, the music in this.

530
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:06.360
Oh, it's good.

531
00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:12.480
It's so good because Murray gets to do all of his themes for, you know, Clara.

532
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:13.679
Murray's greatest hits.

533
00:35:13.739 --> 00:35:14.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

534
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:16.380
He gets to do the Dalek theme.

535
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:20.039
He gets to do the music from Rings of Acherson when the regeneration happens.

536
00:35:20.099 --> 00:35:21.780
All of that stuff is all there.

537
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:27.719
But that triumphant moment where the crack appears in the sky, and we get that this is gala frame music.

538
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:43.139
There is that, but then that moment just before when Clara is talking to the crack and that swell of music behind it, if you love him, and you should help him.

539
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:44.699
So good, isn't it?

540
00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:48.840
Because they've been waiting there for 100s and 100s of years to come through.

541
00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:55.559
They're waiting for the doctor to give them his name and he doesn't do it.

542
00:35:55.619 --> 00:36:06.780
And then when Clara speaks to them, they go, yes, you're right, we just can't get through this time, we have to help him.

543
00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:08.280
And so they abandon.

544
00:36:08.340 --> 00:36:15.780
They do the right thing and abandon their plans to come through into our universe this way.

545
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:21.960
You know, they cause the problem and they decide to fix it after Clara speaks to them.

546
00:36:22.019 --> 00:36:29.699
And I also think that speech is unbelievably great because it answers the name of the doctor question too.

547
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:35.039
His name is the doctor. that he's called that because that's what he does.

548
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:38.880
That moment gets me every time.

549
00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:44.519
I've seen people online talking about crying at moments in Doctor Who too frequently in my opinion.

550
00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:47.280
If you're after an emotional catharsis, This is not the program for you.

551
00:36:47.340 --> 00:36:48.960
You know, get a grip.

552
00:36:49.019 --> 00:36:50.400
But I will pay that moment.

553
00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:57.360
If you love him and you should, yeah, help him, that's speaking to the audience as well, if you love him and you should.

554
00:36:57.420 --> 00:37:02.159
And I think it also is testament to Jenna's acting.

555
00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:03.000
Oh, yeah.

556
00:37:03.059 --> 00:37:03.599
Yeah.

557
00:37:03.659 --> 00:37:06.119
Like we can say what we want about how the character's written.

558
00:37:06.179 --> 00:37:11.639
But I just think she just continually nails it time and time again.

559
00:37:11.699 --> 00:37:13.860
She's emoting like hell to a green screen.

560
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:14.820
Yeah.

561
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:15.719
Yeah, yeah.

562
00:37:15.780 --> 00:37:17.519
She's talking to the wall, you know.

563
00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:23.940
But even early, I think when, doesn't she say now it's time for one last bow, 11th hour is over now.

564
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:25.619
The clock is striking 12. isn't that?

565
00:37:25.619 --> 00:37:26.340
Is that her dialogue?

566
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:27.239
Does she read it?

567
00:37:27.300 --> 00:37:27.900
She does.

568
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:29.519
She reads the the cracker message.

569
00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:31.440
Yeah, from the fake poet.

570
00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:33.059
I think that's so funny.

571
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:37.800
So the way that's set up is that Linda has brought these classy Christmas crackers.

572
00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:40.079
And, like, shout out to Linda for a second.

573
00:37:40.139 --> 00:37:45.239
Moffat doesn't normally do the sort of Annalise Neres kind of character.

574
00:37:45.300 --> 00:37:48.420
But this is probably as close as he gets with Linda.

575
00:37:48.480 --> 00:38:04.139
And we had all that stuff about Ellie, like Clara's mother dies and we see the grave side and all of that sort of thing early in series 7B, and now he's her father with this horrible, horrible stepmother.

576
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:12.300
Such a shame we don't get those 5 or 6 episodes looking for Galafray and having them as and Gran as supporting characters.

577
00:38:12.300 --> 00:38:13.679
Hollow, big finish.

578
00:38:14.579 --> 00:38:29.280
That's the missed opportunity for me is that the structure of series 7. means that you get that mini season, then a big gap, then the 2nd half, then the anniversary, then the Christmas special.

579
00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:40.860
If only maybe they'd push things back and we could have had more episodes between the anniversary and the next Christmas special. so that there would be more room to breathe.

580
00:38:40.980 --> 00:38:46.860
I guess the problem is, isn't it that Moffatt wasn't expecting Smith to leave?

581
00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:50.699
and everything was kind of falling to the ground a bit.

582
00:38:50.699 --> 00:38:55.980
Even though he told him, I will only do 3 years and he was not contracted after name of the doctor.

583
00:38:56.039 --> 00:38:56.579
Yeah.

584
00:38:56.579 --> 00:39:06.300
I mean, I could be wrong on this, but as far as I'm aware, Matt wasn't contracted beyond his 3 seasons and so he did the day of the doctor as a favour, basically.

585
00:39:06.300 --> 00:39:08.460
He didn't have to do that. contractually obliged.

586
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:18.780
And I think Matt might have wanted to leave in Day of the Doctor, so he might have wanted to come back and go and Stephen kind of twisted the friendship arm a little bit and said, no, no, let's do another episode like Christmas episode.

587
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:19.860
I will write you a really good story.

588
00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:25.860
And Matt, again, just because he's a good guy and he had allegiance to the program, Stephen said, yeah, okay, I'll do that.

589
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:29.940
And so we were really lucky that we got this episode to say goodbye to Matt.

590
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:31.139
I agree with you.

591
00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:35.880
I think everything that Stephen's been doing is leading up to this 50th anniversary.

592
00:39:35.940 --> 00:39:41.460
All the problems with that and the way he got around it and how that ties together.

593
00:39:41.519 --> 00:40:07.199
And we've mentioned like this is, well, Nathan, you talked about the fact that there's kind of Moffat failures within this and this could be a 1st draft, but even if it is a 1st or 2nd draft, it's still quite amazing how we can then leapfrog onto this and bring all of this stuff together format for everybody and do it in a way that I think perhaps only he or even Russell can do, you know?

594
00:40:07.260 --> 00:40:17.880
Yeah, I mean, I think he does a better job than Russell does, because I think Russell, in the end of time, parts one and 2 is running on fumes at that point as well.

595
00:40:17.940 --> 00:40:23.880
And both Moffat and Russell can write really great stuff under really trying circumstances.

596
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:28.139
But I have to say that I like this a lot more than I like the end of time.

597
00:40:28.139 --> 00:40:32.099
And I like the end of time quite a lot more than other people do, I think.

598
00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:34.320
That's your 1st draft.

599
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:36.480
Yeah, I mean, I 1st draft.

600
00:40:36.539 --> 00:40:37.980
I think I think...

601
00:40:37.980 --> 00:40:44.699
Yeah, I think there are the sort of things that disappear, like artificers like voiceovers and stuff like that.

602
00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:45.840
Oh, no, no.

603
00:40:45.900 --> 00:40:50.880
But what I'm saying is this is a rush job. written at the 11th hour.

604
00:40:50.940 --> 00:40:59.880
You're struggling to get this out in time because you're running on fumes and you've had all these production problems. is still bloody good.

605
00:40:59.940 --> 00:41:00.900
Oh, yeah, yeah.

606
00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:04.199
Like, that's testament to his ability as a writer.

607
00:41:04.260 --> 00:41:12.599
Sandophus thing about how Bob Holmes could write Doctor Who in his sleep and...

608
00:41:12.659 --> 00:41:13.980
We know that.

609
00:41:15.059 --> 00:41:17.579
I think that that's the same thing here.

610
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:21.900
Moffat's mission more...

611
00:41:21.900 --> 00:41:23.460
Holmes ever did.

612
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:33.059
He hasn't quite reached that point here, but he will reach that point in Capaldi's 2nd season where he's written more Doctor Who than anyone else.

613
00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:39.780
So I'm not willing to say that this is the best thing that Stephen Moffat has ever written.

614
00:41:39.900 --> 00:41:44.400
Comes close in parts, but I think what it is is the most heartfelt thing.

615
00:41:44.460 --> 00:41:53.880
It's not only about his love affair with the show and the doctor as well as Clara's and ours, but it's informed by Stephen's friendship with Matt.

616
00:41:53.940 --> 00:41:58.139
And he's kind of his disconsolation at losing him from Doctor Who.

617
00:41:58.199 --> 00:42:05.699
And because Clara feels the same and because we in the audience feel the same, the episode kind of transcends your typical goodbye to a doctor.

618
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:09.659
It's about growing older and it's about change being the only constant.

619
00:42:09.719 --> 00:42:13.920
You know, that line, we all change. all different people through our lives.

620
00:42:13.980 --> 00:42:14.940
That's okay.

621
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:17.099
In this instance, in particular.

622
00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:22.440
I don't think we're ready for things to change, and we're not ready for Matt to leave the program, so it hurts on a level.

623
00:42:22.500 --> 00:42:27.900
And so seeing him reduced to a frail old man who's kind of shouting at the Daleks to get off his lawn.

624
00:42:28.619 --> 00:42:33.659
Stephen just taps into that and there's no disguising the fact that he's writing it from the heart.

625
00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:34.380
Yeah.

626
00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:45.840
It is that here is the doctor living out his life, fulfilling his absolute mission statement and just getting the essence of the program happening in the story.

627
00:42:46.019 --> 00:42:59.039
There are moments in that final speech from Matt where it feels like he can't look at the camera because he's on the verge of tears.

628
00:42:59.099 --> 00:43:03.000
That weird thing where he moves his hands around.

629
00:43:03.059 --> 00:43:09.780
Like he does some very strange... he makes some very strange choices in that final speech and I think they're great.

630
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:17.639
There's a little pause there before he embarks on the very final bit of the speech where he just kind of looks at Clarence, like he's gathering his strength to deliver those last lines.

631
00:43:18.059 --> 00:43:38.099
It's so much better than what Capoldi gets to do, which, again, is another, will get there, but it's another Moffat running on empty script where he just relies on the fact that Capoldi can give a 10 minute speech with no problems at all and then just flings one in his direction.

632
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:47.760
Whereas this one is about who the doctor is every bit as much as Capoli's final speech is, but it's just a lot better.

633
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:07.800
And then we get the regeneration energy as like an atomic bomb.

634
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:10.860
Bigger and better than ever before.

635
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:12.360
Well, he's been holding it in.

636
00:44:12.420 --> 00:44:14.639
You say that's what happens when you hold it in.

637
00:44:14.699 --> 00:44:20.099
And it's the 1st regeneration that sort of happened outside the TARDIS as well.

638
00:44:20.219 --> 00:44:24.059
And I think that's really terrific.

639
00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:26.099
It's just this tiny breath, isn't it?

640
00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:27.000
He takes this.

641
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:37.380
It's this little breath, the crack opens, we get the music, that little sort of tiny wisp of regeneration energy, and then it suddenly it's like lava pouring out of his arms.

642
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:38.940
It's so tremendously gray.

643
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:43.320
That's because he got topped up with a fuel that he didn't actually need.

644
00:44:43.619 --> 00:44:45.840
No, I refuse to...

645
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:46.980
No, that's not Canada.

646
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:50.760
So it's that, you know, whole new cycle of regeneration.

647
00:44:50.820 --> 00:44:52.380
That's something that we haven't talked about either.

648
00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:59.820
We discover in this episode that Matt Smith has been the last doctor all along.

649
00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:12.179
And it's clear that that's just an idea that he's had for this story because there is talk of the possibility of him regenerating and things during the era.

650
00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:21.239
So here we've decided that all along the doctor has known that this is his last go at things.

651
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:25.079
Because we've got the war doctor and 10 had a...

652
00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:26.219
Another generation.

653
00:45:26.219 --> 00:45:27.300
Vanity issues.

654
00:45:28.260 --> 00:45:30.780
And I think that's genius.

655
00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:32.099
I think that's so good.

656
00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:35.760
So making the doctor dying of old age.

657
00:45:35.820 --> 00:45:38.099
Like, this is the doctor dying.

658
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:42.480
It's not just, oh, Matt Smith's doctor will just regenerate and it'll be different.

659
00:45:42.539 --> 00:45:45.179
This is him facing death in a way that Tenant wasn't.

660
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:51.000
Remember, Tennant had to give us that gloopy speech about how you die and then another man saunters away in your place.

661
00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:54.059
Here it's real actual death that he's facing.

662
00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:56.340
But the other thing too is as fans.

663
00:45:56.400 --> 00:46:01.260
Like if you just regenerated, then you'd be going, oh, well, this is the last regeneration.

664
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:01.860
That's it.

665
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:09.059
So is that going to be sort of looming over the series or the doctor and all of his moves for the next, you know, a couple of years.

666
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:14.099
This way it's just sort of, well, yes, this is the last one and now we've solved that problem.

667
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:15.239
He's got a whole new cycle.

668
00:46:15.300 --> 00:46:15.659
Boom.

669
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:25.019
In fact, Russell sort of half-heartedly tries to solve the problem. in the Sarah Jane adventures because Clyde, I think, asks Matt Smith's doctor.

670
00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:26.579
Is it Matt Smith or tenants?

671
00:46:26.579 --> 00:46:27.599
He wants both of them.

672
00:46:27.659 --> 00:46:30.179
How many times do you get to generate?

673
00:46:30.179 --> 00:46:32.579
And he says 506 or something.

674
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:44.760
And, you know, the 12 regeneration limit was a throwaway line of exactly the same type, but it stuck and everyone, you know, it happened during a, it happened.

675
00:46:44.820 --> 00:47:01.260
Well, so it's in deadly assassin that it comes up, but then we move to a version of the program that's in love with its own mythos, and so it turns that Bob Holmes throwaway line into, you know, an inviolable canonical rule.

676
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:06.539
And so it's nice that that goes away here.

677
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:07.619
We don't need it anymore.

678
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:10.380
And this is fanwank kind of done correctly.

679
00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:21.780
Yeah, something, which, you know, it's just fan law, which the wider public wouldn't care about, and which we really shouldn't care about, but it becomes integral to the episode and it becomes part of the dramatic thrust of the episode.

680
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:25.619
Well, I mean, it is the fact that the doctor is living out his life.

681
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:28.619
He doesn't have a regeneration ahead of him.

682
00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:36.539
He's staying Christmas for 100s of years and he doesn't get to turn into someone else and walk away once the problem's...

683
00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:37.980
I've had Christmas days like that.

684
00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:41.639
Maybe this should have been called the 12 Regenerations for Christmas.

685
00:47:41.699 --> 00:47:44.159
It was originally going to be called 12th Night.

686
00:47:44.219 --> 00:47:48.780
No, well, I think that that should have been what Capoldi's final episode was called too.

687
00:47:48.840 --> 00:47:51.659
I was slightly disappointed by Twice upon a Time.

688
00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:53.400
Although that's nice.

689
00:47:53.460 --> 00:47:58.260
This is such a lovely bookend to Matt Smith. would have been nice if it was 11th hour, 12th night.

690
00:47:58.320 --> 00:47:58.619
Yeah.

691
00:47:58.619 --> 00:47:58.920
Yeah.

692
00:47:58.980 --> 00:48:00.420
Yeah, that would have been.

693
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:06.780
So I think when you were saying earlier, Nathan, about Capaldi's regeneration can't really stack up to this one.

694
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:12.239
I think making any comparison to this regeneration is pretty much a difficult thing to do.

695
00:48:12.300 --> 00:48:13.320
I think this might be the best.

696
00:48:13.380 --> 00:48:17.880
And it starts from that moment where the doctor's on top of the of the church tower.

697
00:48:17.940 --> 00:48:29.039
And then it all quietens down and we're left in the aftermath and you've just got Clara with a lot of trepidation kind of picking her way towards the TARDIS and going inside and we share that trepidation.

698
00:48:29.099 --> 00:48:30.960
We don't know what we're going to find.

699
00:48:31.019 --> 00:48:38.460
And, like, you can feel it swelling up inside you because you know that you're approaching the moment of regeneration.

700
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:42.780
And I don't think we've ever had that kind of that emotional catharsis.

701
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:48.719
Maybe Planet of the Spiders in the classic series when the TARDIS reappears and Sarah Jane and the Brigadier are there.

702
00:48:48.780 --> 00:48:52.619
You know the moment of generation is coming and it's almost unbearable.

703
00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:59.219
It's interesting because like, you know, as they shoot it with him walking up the stairs in the Tartars.

704
00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:00.659
Like, I just expected it.

705
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:03.239
I thought, well, is it?

706
00:49:03.239 --> 00:49:04.440
or is it Capaldi?

707
00:49:04.500 --> 00:49:09.420
Like, I mean, surely, is that is going to be Matt in the old age makeup is going to be the Matt we know?

708
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:14.940
That energy's happened like based on what's happened twice before, then he should have changed.

709
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:28.920
So when you get that code of scene with him, you know, saying his final lines, and then looking at the vision of the fake young Amelia, walking around, running around, where because Caitlin's a teenager.

710
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:29.940
She's too old.

711
00:49:30.059 --> 00:49:31.320
Yeah, it's 82.

712
00:49:31.500 --> 00:49:36.539
So it's like she's too small and she's too thin. for that.

713
00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:45.599
Every time I see that, I kind of go, mm, I just, I just go, mm, could you have got a different child actor who was a bit more?

714
00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:46.739
Or just shock it slightly differently?

715
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:49.019
Same body shape, like it just annoys me.

716
00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:55.260
But then looking up and when Karen suddenly comes into shot, like, I mean, that just got to me.

717
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:56.400
Yeah, totally.

718
00:49:56.460 --> 00:49:57.539
It's funny.

719
00:49:57.599 --> 00:50:11.400
Do you think that we have Matt Smith in ageing makeup so that when Matt regenerates into Capaldi, we're not kind of sort of horrified by the fact that he's suddenly aged 30 years?

720
00:50:11.460 --> 00:50:14.760
Nathan, I look in the mirror every morning, nothing horrifies me.

721
00:50:16.739 --> 00:50:19.739
I don't Old manhands.

722
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:20.639
What did that happen?

723
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:38.880
Yeah, so I, like, I think that the decision he makes is right, that he gives Matt a final scene without the ageing makeup so that he can just be the Matt that we know, that he has some throwaway line about how it's a reset or whatever, like who cares?

724
00:50:38.940 --> 00:50:42.119
It's space reasons and we just deal with it really quickly.

725
00:50:42.179 --> 00:50:46.500
The real reason is that we allow Matt to die of old age.

726
00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:49.019
We allow his doctor to die of old age.

727
00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:54.780
Then we get the mat that we know saying the farewell speech, and then we suddenly get Capaldi.

728
00:50:54.840 --> 00:50:59.820
But we get Karen, we get the bow tie coming off, you know, makes a sound.

729
00:50:59.880 --> 00:51:05.760
Not a digetic sound, but it's a sound in the music when he pulls the tie off and drops and then false the floor.

730
00:51:05.820 --> 00:51:06.719
Yeah, it's so good.

731
00:51:06.780 --> 00:51:10.559
All of his instincts are right in this regeneration scene.

732
00:51:10.619 --> 00:51:17.880
It's just, it's so gorgeously written and it kind of gives full expression to Stephen's sadness, I think, at losing Matt.

733
00:51:17.940 --> 00:51:19.860
It's the saddest regeneration.

734
00:51:20.219 --> 00:51:24.480
If there's something that can be said about the production of this era.

735
00:51:24.539 --> 00:51:31.260
This early era with Moffatt is that it was a family production.

736
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:46.139
You know, like, he evidently got on very well with his leads, you know, like Matt, Karen and Arthur and Stephen were like really, really close.

737
00:51:46.139 --> 00:51:54.960
And really the show that he created in 2010 has been dying.

738
00:51:55.019 --> 00:51:57.300
And I don't mean that in a negative way.

739
00:51:57.360 --> 00:51:57.780
No, no, no.

740
00:51:57.780 --> 00:52:01.260
Again, it's like pertly era kind of being stripped away a bit like that.

741
00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:01.739
Yeah, exactly.

742
00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:11.159
This is an analogue to season 11, really. is that that version of the show has been dying for the last season.

743
00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:17.639
Like, this has been a really drawn out kind of stripping away of these characters.

744
00:52:17.699 --> 00:52:19.079
Yeah, yeah.

745
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:22.500
Yeah, we've lost River Song most recently.

746
00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:29.099
We even lost like, you know, the Tartis console room that we knew, even though this one is better. you know, the bits being taken away.

747
00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:29.699
Yeah.

748
00:52:29.699 --> 00:52:31.320
Yeah, maybe that's it.

749
00:52:31.380 --> 00:52:41.820
Maybe that's why the closest analogue is the... is the per to a era, because the per to year is the only era of the show with that expanded regular cast and a home base.

750
00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:48.539
It's the only era of the show that has enough that you could gradually strip it away and still have a functioning show.

751
00:52:48.599 --> 00:52:57.179
And when I said earlier that I think this is the saddest regeneration, the only other contender, as I said, I think, is planet of the spiders, and it's for the same reason.

752
00:52:57.659 --> 00:53:02.699
Very true And then you get Peter appearing.

753
00:53:02.820 --> 00:53:09.659
And I think that he looks really old. and haggard.

754
00:53:09.719 --> 00:53:12.239
Like, I really think he's badly lit in this.

755
00:53:12.300 --> 00:53:19.320
Like, I just think he just looks washed out and appalling and he actually looks better later on in his run than at this point.

756
00:53:19.380 --> 00:53:22.500
I don't know if it's the lighting of the Tardis or what.

757
00:53:22.619 --> 00:53:25.619
But when I watch it again, it's like, oh, good grief.

758
00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:34.679
And I love him, but I'm thinking, what do people are going to think about this going from a really young hot doctor and having 2 young doctors in a row suddenly to somebody that is your grandpa.

759
00:53:34.739 --> 00:53:36.599
He's 55.

760
00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:40.079
Or closer to Maya.

761
00:53:41.940 --> 00:53:51.420
I mean, that's the often cited fact is that he's the same age as Hartnell was when he was cast as Doctor Who.

762
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:53.340
I agree.

763
00:53:53.400 --> 00:54:01.980
Like he, he, he, it's not just the contrast between a 20 something year old actor and a 50 something year old actor.

764
00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:03.480
It is badly laid.

765
00:54:03.539 --> 00:54:06.360
He looks so much better in series 8.

766
00:54:06.420 --> 00:54:07.380
Right.

767
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:08.940
And that's not an ages thing.

768
00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:12.000
Like, I just think it's, there's something going on with the lighting, maybe.

769
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:15.119
Or the makeup or the makeup or they didn't have time.

770
00:54:15.179 --> 00:54:17.760
It was a rush job.

771
00:54:17.820 --> 00:54:20.579
I have to say, though, that I really like it.

772
00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:31.500
You remember when Davison turns into Colin Baker and it happens just like that, like he's lying down in his Davis and then he sits up and suddenly his baker.

773
00:54:31.500 --> 00:54:33.300
Yes, you're right.

774
00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:34.320
That shocked me.

775
00:54:34.380 --> 00:54:36.059
So much of the time it's like, boom.

776
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:37.619
Suddenly I went, oh, that's it?

777
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:38.400
That's the change.

778
00:54:38.460 --> 00:54:39.119
Yeah, yeah.

779
00:54:39.179 --> 00:54:41.099
Because we'd had all of that stuff before.

780
00:54:41.159 --> 00:54:47.579
We couldn't do another one of him standing there with stuff pouring out of him again because we already had that to destroy the Tartars.

781
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:56.639
So having the doctor just kind of fall out of frame and then suddenly, suddenly look up and it's Capoldi is so shocking and so funny, I think.

782
00:54:56.699 --> 00:54:58.320
With his attack eyebrows.

783
00:54:58.380 --> 00:54:59.460
Yeah, yeah.

784
00:54:59.460 --> 00:55:00.599
It's off putting.

785
00:55:00.659 --> 00:55:01.380
Yeah.

786
00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:03.179
And I think it is deliberately, though.

787
00:55:03.300 --> 00:55:07.380
The same way that Colin Baker's initial appearance is meant to be off putting.

788
00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:17.400
It gives you the right energy for Capaldi's 1st moments because he's really intense and it would be difficult to go to that from a lying on the ground, energy pouring out of him.

789
00:55:17.460 --> 00:55:18.539
You would need to snap into it.

790
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:19.559
Yeah, yeah.

791
00:55:19.619 --> 00:55:20.639
And it is really funny.

792
00:55:20.699 --> 00:55:22.619
I'm not sure about the kidneys line.

793
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:25.260
I think it is perhaps... somewhere...

794
00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:27.119
I read somewhere that those lines were improvised.

795
00:55:27.179 --> 00:55:27.719
Oh really?

796
00:55:27.780 --> 00:55:29.400
Yeah, which seems strange.

797
00:55:29.460 --> 00:55:32.880
Surely you wouldn't just leave your leading actor to improvise their 1st line.

798
00:55:32.940 --> 00:55:40.380
But the can you fly this thing, like ending it that way and just the shock on Clara's face at what's just happened.

799
00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:45.119
Which we will be discussing in the future.

800
00:55:45.179 --> 00:55:54.480
We will. that's right But it may mean, you know, everything is set up here, you know, um, Clara walking to the Tartars and finding the phone.

801
00:55:54.539 --> 00:55:56.699
Yeah, yeah, hanging the phone up.

802
00:55:56.760 --> 00:55:57.719
Hanging the phone up.

803
00:55:57.780 --> 00:55:59.159
Oh, and he must have fixed the phone.

804
00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:01.679
When Handel said, that's right.

805
00:56:01.739 --> 00:56:02.699
Yeah, he's fixed the phone.

806
00:56:02.820 --> 00:56:09.960
So there's, you know, Stephen is clever and there's things in this that will pay off next time.

807
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:18.360
And it's what I like when there's little things like this rather than suddenly out of the blue, having to retrofit things into plot.

808
00:56:18.420 --> 00:56:28.980
When little things like this are set up and the woman in the shop, several episodes ago, moving forward, there's going to be a payoff and I like that, you know?

809
00:56:29.039 --> 00:56:35.699
You know, Stephen is sometimes labelled a clever clogs writer, and actually, like I said, Todd, he's just clever.

810
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:42.780
His detractors try to make out that he's kind of a bit cynical and a bit plot twisty and that's his thing and he can be.

811
00:56:42.840 --> 00:56:43.679
He is those things.

812
00:56:43.739 --> 00:56:50.099
But here he's those things, but he's also kind of genuine and rawly emotional.

813
00:56:50.099 --> 00:56:52.739
And I think that's what powers this episode for me.

814
00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:54.179
It's what makes it one of the best.

815
00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:17.880
Well, there, listener, that's all we have time for this Christmas.

816
00:57:17.940 --> 00:57:23.460
We'll be back on New Year's Day to bring the 11th hour to an end in our Matt Smith retrospective.

817
00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:43.860
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at flight through entirety on Facebook, at FTE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, Flightthrough Entirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project.

818
00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:48.360
Until next time, may you never forget all the people that you used to be.

819
00:57:48.420 --> 00:57:51.059
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

820
00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:52.199
See you soon.

821
00:57:52.260 --> 00:57:53.219
Merry Christmas.

822
00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:54.599
Raggedy man.

823
00:57:54.659 --> 00:57:55.500
Good night.

824
00:57:59.940 --> 00:58:05.820
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd Wilby, Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffith, and James Selwood.

825
00:58:05.880 --> 00:58:07.920
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lann.

826
00:58:07.980 --> 00:58:14.639
This episode, to have a better ending, was recorded on the 11th of September 2022 and released on Christmas Day.

827
00:58:18.179 --> 00:58:21.179
Thank you, dear listener for joining us this year.

828
00:58:21.239 --> 00:58:27.719
We'll see you again on New Year's Day, but until then, as always, a happy Christmas to all of you at home.

829
00:58:36.780 --> 00:58:38.400
I'm gonna press record.

830
00:58:38.460 --> 00:58:39.179
That way, we have to talk.

831
00:58:40.500 --> 00:58:55.619
The, uh, the tag is, uh, you talking about, no, you talking, like, I think Brandon says, because there's 2 grandfathers in Rings of Ackerton, right?

832
00:58:55.679 --> 00:58:58.619
And, uh, most gracious.

833
00:58:58.679 --> 00:58:59.519
Exactly.

834
00:58:59.579 --> 00:59:04.500
Because the doctor mentions that he's a grandfather, and then there's grandfather.

835
00:59:04.500 --> 00:59:07.619
And...

836
00:59:07.619 --> 00:59:09.000
Is there a Susan joke in there somewhere?

837
00:59:09.059 --> 00:59:10.079
Yes.

838
00:59:10.380 --> 00:59:15.000
And there's also there's a Stephen a Dodo joke naturally as well.

839
00:59:15.059 --> 00:59:22.139
But you, Brendan says, but the doctor's a giver, not a taker.

840
00:59:22.199 --> 00:59:39.059
And then you repeat it in the most appallingly way, and then we go back to talking about Miss Kislett's badge. have no memory of this.

841
00:59:39.119 --> 00:59:44.159
Well, Ms. Kislett's badge was nearly the title of the Rebels of St.

842
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:44.699
Tron one.

843
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:49.320
He innocently goes, if you look closely at Miss Kislet's badge, I'm like, oh what?

844
00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:53.880
Yes, when I was listening to that, I went, oh my god.

845
00:59:53.940 --> 00:59:55.920
That was nearly the title.

846
00:59:55.980 --> 00:59:59.280
There was a lot that you cut out after that, wasn't there?

847
00:59:59.340 --> 01:00:00.420
I did.

848
01:00:00.539 --> 01:00:02.639
Yes, I did tone that down.

849
01:00:02.760 --> 01:00:04.559
Yeah, we were very rude.

850
01:00:04.619 --> 01:00:07.500
It makes it really funny, James, is that you're expiring in the background.

851
01:00:07.559 --> 01:00:08.639
You're going, oh, no.

852
01:00:10.679 --> 01:00:13.199
It's not usually where I react.

853
01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:20.820
I also talk about the pan Babylonians. that they're Babylonians, but they are not very picky about who they have sex with.

854
01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:24.840
We have fun.

855
01:00:24.900 --> 01:00:26.099
All right.

856
01:00:27.420 --> 01:00:30.119
This is Rings of Ackerton, just a sec.

857
01:00:30.900 --> 01:00:33.119
Time of the doctor.

858
01:00:33.659 --> 01:00:36.179
Directed by Jamie Payne.

859
01:00:36.239 --> 01:00:36.780
Yeah.

860
01:00:36.780 --> 01:00:37.800
Who did hide?

861
01:00:38.699 --> 01:00:40.139
Yeah.

862
01:00:40.199 --> 01:00:43.980
We also slam hide in that episode.

863
01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:45.780
The doctor's well directed, though.

864
01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:46.739
Yeah, yeah.

865
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:48.900
Yeah, I think Hyde looks pretty good.

866
01:00:48.960 --> 01:00:49.980
Yeah.

867
01:00:49.980 --> 01:00:51.719
If only something was happening.

868
01:00:51.780 --> 01:00:52.440
Boring.

869
01:00:52.920 --> 01:01:00.360
I tentative about saying this, but just put it when you pick that up and put it down, make sure no one's talking.

870
01:01:01.320 --> 01:01:04.139
I was probably not going to actually drink more of it.

871
01:01:04.199 --> 01:01:05.400
Okay, all right.

872
01:01:05.460 --> 01:01:05.820
Here goes.

873
01:01:06.300 --> 01:01:08.340
Oh, order.

874
01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:10.559
Nathan Todd, Peter James.

875
01:01:10.619 --> 01:01:12.300
No, Nathan, what order?

876
01:01:12.420 --> 01:01:12.599
Yeah.

877
01:01:12.659 --> 01:01:14.280
Yeah, okay.

878
01:01:17.519 --> 01:01:21.360
Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight for Entirety.