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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:57:38

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast that's like flirting with a mountain

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range, ambitious but not particularly productive.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Peter.

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And I'm really looking forward to the return of Karen Ford for the

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end of this one for this one.

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Well, we've been watching Matt Smith's doctor for 4 years now from

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his 1st adventure on Earth with the Atraxi to his last adventure

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on Trezilore with literally everyone he's ever met.

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We've laughed, we've cried, and we've done the giraffe dance at

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Amy's wedding, but have we learned anything?

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Let's find out as we embark on our Matt Smith retrospective.

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It's time for Snog marry avoid.

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Five, six, seven.

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I have to get my chapstick for this one.

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I mean, I think you would have to marry season 5 because you could

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just watch it over and over.

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It's really great.

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You'd probably avoid series 6 because it's problematic in the arc

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and you never want long-term problems.

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Series 7.

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Well, okay, I could snog series 7 or bits of like, it's not a town

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called Mercy.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Definitely.

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Ben Browner in a town called Mercy.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So I would have a different answer from this.

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I would snog series six.

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I would definitely marry a series 5 because I think it's a thing

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of beauty.

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Sorry, I got there.

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Series 6 is sort of problematic, I think, but it's interesting.

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Whereas series 7, I think, is just a bit dull. isn't that what

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marriage is?

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So I'm told.

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Richard.

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Oh, it's it's all a post-COVID hangover blur, but that's just

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because we're here on a Sunday.

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There were so many gorgeous moments.

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I think I'd probably just keep them all on an app and just dip

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into each and every one of them as I so pleased because I'm not

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really up for long terms.

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With this lot anymore.

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No, that's a good and fair question, and I'd have to look at it

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overall.

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What do we end up going back to and watching since 2005.

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It is this period.

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It is, you might say Stephen Moffatt's 1st few years.

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Or you might just call it Matt's time, but they are the ones I go

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back to.

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So yeah, I think I'd have a clandestine affair with each and every

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one of them and not tell the other two.

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Well thank you.

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I agree with you Peter.

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I'm definitely on the series 5 bandwagon and avoiding series 6 at

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all.

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Well, not at all costs, but I think there's things in there that

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just I don't connect with.

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So yeah, no, there we go.

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Well, this is the Matt Smith retrospective.

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So let's talk about Matt.

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What's his legacy?

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What do you take away now that it's been, how long has it been?

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Over 10 years since he was the doctor?

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Gosh.

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He is the only other doctor since John Pertway who I was bereft

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when he left.

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I wanted him to stay.

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I wanted another season.

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I didn't think we'd seen all that he could give, and I just think

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it was a tragedy, that he didn't do another year.

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I think at the moment, and I'm just starting the Capoldi era now

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in preparation for our coverage of that on the podcast, I still

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think that he is the best portrayal of the doctor in the show's

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history, including the classic series.

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I think he gets it absolutely rise.

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And people don't.

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I think some people don't properly appreciate how unpleasant a

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character he is, that he is actually a kind of bad guy, like

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Moffatt's other doctor.

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And I think that I want that from the doctor.

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I want that sort of Tom in horror fang rock, doctor, who is

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slightly unpleasant.

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There's a facade of geniality and kind of silliness to this doctor

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but there's a real kind of steel to him as well.

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And, you know, comparing him to David Tennant when they're doing

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angry acting, for instance.

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I think Matt can be properly terrifying in a way that Tennant

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never actually seems to manage.

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So he's my favourite, I think.

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It may be splitting hairs slightly, but I don't think Matt is the

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strongest performer to ever played the doctor.

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I agree with that.

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Maybe David Tennant and Peter Capaldi are on balance better and

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more varied actors, but Matt delivers something in the role, which

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neither of them quite reach.

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It's just a role that was made for him, I think.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I think there's a distinction between actor and performer

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isn't there?

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Like, Tom might be the greatest performer in the role.

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I would say he is actually.

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Yeah, or maybe Pat.

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But Pat's also an actor.

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Pete is an actor more than a performer.

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Tom lives it.

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Yeah, that's why young people were and still are actually drawn

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into his performance.

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Yeah.

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Well, I mentioned per wee earlier. we know will make great claims

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for as an actor, but he's a consummate performer. brings the

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doctor to life.

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And you could see the care and subtlety and conviction.

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He really loved this part.

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And you could say that actually for pretty much all of them.

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They all took it very seriously and their duty of care, you might

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say, to not just do the work.

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Actually, to the audience.

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Um, you hear that Tom's saying he, I played it to children, but I

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think he played it to university students and that's why the

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humour worked both ways because young people, you know, are always

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aspirant to their older brothers and sisters who are, you know

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they want to be part of that humour, older people have that sense

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of nostalgia for when they still had hope and joy.

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And therefore, you know, and Red Douglas Adams with, um, without

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the conviction that he was a perfect seer and all of this is

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actually happening.

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So, you know, there's that sense of fun.

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Billy, I keep going back to for the freshness and uniqueness and

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the power, just the anger of him is joyful and Capaldi carries

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that.

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But I think the only one who actually lived the part and I

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couldn't see they were acting was Billy and Tom because they're

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both a bit bags of nuts.

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I think the fact that it's quite warming, the fact that David

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Tennant and Peter Capaldi were both fans, and so they knew what

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they were taking on, whereas Matt came into it fresh.

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He didn't really know anything until he sat down and watched Tomb

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of the Cybermen. which Moth had lent him.

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And the fact that he became such a good custodian of the flame, and

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sort of became a great ambassador for the show and became someone

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who clearly loved the show, counted for a lot, I think.

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Yeah, Tennant has a very sort of self-conscious desire to be the

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doctor, which is, I think, why his doctor is so, so good because

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he knows what works in the role.

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And I think that Matt doesn't have that.

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Matt isn't aware of what works when you're the doctor.

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And so he just does really strange, interesting things with the

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role.

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I get the sense that Matt, I don't know.

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How was the rehearsal period working for them by this period

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compared to, you know, was it the same amount of rehearsal for

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episodes that they had under Russell that they have now?

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I mean, I think you do get rehearsed record.

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They may have a day where they sort of rehearse with a new lead

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you know, a new co-lead or whatever.

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Although we know that Matt never did it filmically and never gave

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the same performance twice on the take.

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Remember, there were all those stories coming out from the

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production of series 5 before he'd been seen on television over

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how his performance was erratic and maybe wasn't quite there.

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But of course, we realised from watching it, that was just him

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sorting out what would land and what would work.

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And of course, it's magic on screen.

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Yeah, I mean, we said that his 1st day where he's shooting the

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Angels 2 partter in series 5.

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The beach with River and Amy.

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He's perfect. like absolutely perfect.

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We don't get any sort of weird 4 to doomsday performance full of

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things that never end up being part of the sort of long term

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role.

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If Doctor Who were the tarot card deck.

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And in many ways it is. he is the holy fool and he leaps in and I

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love that that's at the foot of a cliff face because that's his

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performance.

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He really does.

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And I see in the flapping of the arms, you're winging this.

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You haven't worked out what you're doing.

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You're doing it right now and that's where the energy is coming

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from.

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Yeah, your arms hard enough. anyone will wing it.

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Oh, I thought of Nicola with all the feathers and the allergies

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poor thing.

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But yeah, that kind of panic will draw an audience in because it's

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such a visceral thing, observing performance and has no time

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dilation scale to it.

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Oh, such a Doctor Who thing to say.

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So, you know, it can be recorded, it can be 20 years ago.

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It can be 60 years ago.

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The audience will respond as if it's theatre and we're in the room

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because we're committed to the performances.

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Has anyone watched sex education recently, again?

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No, not since the announcement, actually.

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I graduated a long time ago.

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Yeah, ooh.

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Oh, it's great.

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And I wasn't going to.

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I thought, no, I want to see what shoot he does.

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And the 1st 2 episodes, there's that matte quality, and I can see

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now what Russell, I'm sure he's done many other interesting things

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but I can see why Russell has said, yes, you.

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Shooty just has that gorgeous manic.

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I'm still in control.

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You're not.

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You're making it up, and it could go either way, and there's that

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tightrope tension that really, really works.

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Tom had that as well.

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And Billy definitely had it when he was, especially as he was

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getting older, and those moments with Peter Purvis, where he was

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being supported, or it's just like, oh, you're really panicking

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and it's so interesting to watch.

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Matt is such a natural in the role.

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And I think that story that Stephen tells of him being the only

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one, he basically left the audition room and they all looked at

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each other and went, obviously, it's him.

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He was in the 1st six, wasn't he?

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The 1st like the really early.

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He was third, I think, is what they say.

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He was the 3rd person.

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And then Moffatt and Piers Wanger left the room and had a dream.

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No, like I said, and said, well, we can't take Miriam Margolis

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because, you know, she'll eat.

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Don't mix up your executive producers.

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Wow.

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Please keep that in.

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Please.

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Yeah, I mean, he was the 3rd and they just immediately said, we

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need to.

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I think the story goes, we need to snap him up because if we don't

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someone else will snap him up and he'll become a big star.

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I think it's what Pierce Fenger said.

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And Moffin said, well, let's prevent him from becoming...

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That's a very Stephen Thing to say, yeah.

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Look, I agree with you.

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I agree with you, Peter.

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I think there is this quality to math that's just so natural.

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And I think in series 5, there's just this energy before you see

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him on screen before he sees himself on screen.

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That is different from 6 and seven, I do think.

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But I mean, that's like any any doctor, you know, once it's out

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there and feedback is given and they see that, you know, there is

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slight changes.

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But that boyish energy and charm of series 5, I don't think, has

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ever been repeated in the entire run of the new series.

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And I think it really sets him up for his whole run.

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Season 5 is quite an innocent performance, isn't it?

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Whereas I think after that, when he's seen himself on screen, when

251
00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:43.320
he's seen how popular he is with the general public, it becomes, in

252
00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:46.740
not a bad sense, a more calculated performance, but he's good all

253
00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:47.279
the way through.

254
00:12:47.340 --> 00:12:49.379
I think the writers have seen him too.

255
00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:50.279
That's the other thing.

256
00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:51.360
Yes, that's right.

257
00:12:51.419 --> 00:12:53.940
And we said he hits the ground running in Time of Angels, which

258
00:12:53.940 --> 00:12:57.600
was he shot first, but let's also pay tribute to Steven's writing

259
00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:00.480
because he gives him all of the material that he needs in that

260
00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:00.840
episode.

261
00:13:00.899 --> 00:13:03.779
He runs the entire gamut from comedy to high drama.

262
00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:05.340
And in those 1st scenes.

263
00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:07.980
He's also acting opposite River song.

264
00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:09.299
Alex Kingston.

265
00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:12.360
And I think that was a perfect scene partner to start off with.

266
00:13:12.419 --> 00:13:17.639
Yes, I mean, you can't tell that it's his 1st filming at all.

267
00:13:17.700 --> 00:13:22.019
I think, you know, it's just slots in so effortlessly into that

268
00:13:22.019 --> 00:13:22.799
entire run.

269
00:13:22.860 --> 00:13:27.299
And I think having Alex Kingston there for him to go against.

270
00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:29.159
It just sets the tone for what's to come.

271
00:13:29.220 --> 00:13:34.919
I also think he successfully does old in a way that Tennant and

272
00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:39.120
Eggleston probably don't, and it's something that they really want

273
00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:43.740
to emphasise in the new series, and Matt has that big old face, big

274
00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:44.879
old boat race.

275
00:13:46.259 --> 00:13:51.000
And he's very still, and even though he's, you know, barely got a

276
00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:56.279
line on his face, he's like 27 or something, he really conveys the

277
00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:58.620
kind of gravity of how old the doctor is.

278
00:13:59.100 --> 00:14:01.200
I think that's amazing.

279
00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:03.120
It's that dichotomy.

280
00:14:03.179 --> 00:14:05.100
Sorry, just Stephen Moffatt said at the time.

281
00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:09.120
I just remembering, he said, Matt walked in and was a cheeky

282
00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:12.179
schoolboy and a wise old man of the universe at exactly the same

283
00:14:12.179 --> 00:14:15.779
and you need to be able to play young and old simultaneously.

284
00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:18.000
Many actors find that difficult to achieve.

285
00:14:18.059 --> 00:14:18.899
And so that was it.

286
00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:19.799
We knew instantly.

287
00:14:19.860 --> 00:14:23.340
I think that Moffatt said in DWM that he was like an old man in

288
00:14:23.340 --> 00:14:24.779
the body of an underwear model.

289
00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:27.120
He also said he's ew, by the way.

290
00:14:27.179 --> 00:14:29.100
I think I've seen that video.

291
00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:34.080
No, it's...

292
00:14:34.139 --> 00:14:35.460
Yes, thank you, Todd.

293
00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:37.860
We all had our finger on that.

294
00:14:50.460 --> 00:14:55.200
One of our listeners, DJ Alpha T, asked, do you think Matt left at

295
00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:58.500
the right time, and to paraphrase what he always had to say?

296
00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:01.679
Would another year be drawn out or allow Moffat to wrap up

297
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:05.159
storylines, not the rush job in time with the doctor?

298
00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:06.360
Interesting.

299
00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:09.360
I take issue with the premise of the question.

300
00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:12.960
Time of the doctor's amazing.

301
00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:17.039
I think, too, that the rush job in time of the doctor was always

302
00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:18.059
what he was going to do.

303
00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:23.759
I mean, those sort of long-term arcs basically can be dealt with

304
00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:25.500
in a line of dialogue.

305
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:30.840
So Moffatt uses time of the doctor to make that point in a way

306
00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:34.740
those things work as they're happening, but they never really work

307
00:15:34.740 --> 00:15:37.379
when they're solved.

308
00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:40.320
And it was all sort of there already, wasn't it?

309
00:15:40.379 --> 00:15:44.820
I mean, we knew that Madame Cavarian was going to stop the doctor

310
00:15:44.820 --> 00:15:47.039
and that the church was going to stop the doctor.

311
00:15:47.100 --> 00:15:49.980
None of those revelations were new.

312
00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:53.159
They just explicitly said what we'd kind of worked out.

313
00:15:53.220 --> 00:15:57.000
So I don't think we do a rush job in time of the doctor.

314
00:15:57.059 --> 00:16:00.539
I would have liked more, Matt, and you can see that he was sort of

315
00:16:00.539 --> 00:16:03.899
setting things up for there to be more, Matt.

316
00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:07.740
And so, you know, we go straight to trends law immediately after

317
00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:09.480
day of the doctor.

318
00:16:09.539 --> 00:16:15.840
But I don't think it matters and and we've got Capaldi in series 8

319
00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:16.679
and he's pretty great.

320
00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:21.000
I don't think there's any doctor who I've said, I'm glad that, well

321
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:22.500
maybe one who I've said.

322
00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:26.159
I'm glad they're gone and I wouldn't like another season with them

323
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:27.779
but with Matt, it's particularly acute.

324
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:29.700
It just felt like he had so much more to give.

325
00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:33.360
And he's in the prime of his life and the prime of his acting life

326
00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:35.759
and we sort of lost him a little bit too early, I think.

327
00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:39.419
Do you know, I saw Morbius in the last couple of days.

328
00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:40.379
Really?

329
00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:41.639
Did you push him over a cliff?

330
00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:46.080
Not afraid of Morbius, but the terrible film that Matt's in.

331
00:16:46.379 --> 00:16:49.080
You know, I've seen that and it took me those seconds to remember

332
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:51.480
what the hell that was because it's so exactly what you're

333
00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:51.659
saying.

334
00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:53.279
Yeah, thank you.

335
00:16:53.340 --> 00:16:54.419
I don't want to cut you off.

336
00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:55.080
Well, I just did.

337
00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:56.820
Sorry, it's much like this podcast.

338
00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:00.299
I feel there could have been a whole other arc and a whole other

339
00:17:00.299 --> 00:17:04.019
other character exploration and perhaps a dark side doctor.

340
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.000
So I think we were all thinking exactly the same thing.

341
00:17:06.059 --> 00:17:10.200
Well, I mean, the thing is that he's not had a stellar film career

342
00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:16.259
after being the doctor, but he's had a pretty seriously worthwhile

343
00:17:16.259 --> 00:17:17.819
TV career, hasn't he?

344
00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:20.880
With the crown, which at the time was, you know, the most

345
00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:22.740
expensive TV show ever made.

346
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:25.799
And there's no true distinction between TV and film these days.

347
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:27.779
No, that's right. prestigious.

348
00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:28.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

349
00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:33.000
And Game of Thrones, where apparently he's very good, even though

350
00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:34.019
I will never watch it.

351
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:35.579
Right.

352
00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.519
It's got Diana Riga, apparently.

353
00:17:38.579 --> 00:17:39.359
Yeah, no it does.

354
00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:40.380
Why won't you watch?

355
00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:41.579
Why won't you watch?

356
00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:44.039
Well, it's just too violent, non-pleasant for me.

357
00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:46.380
I thought you were going to say it's too long and too long.

358
00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:48.059
And there are no robots in it.

359
00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:49.619
I've got a nod to Doctor Who there.

360
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:53.519
No, I want to say darker doctor, I mean, perhaps, you know, an alt

361
00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:57.000
universe, valeyard type doctor, but just really let him stretch

362
00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:59.880
because I'm really agreeing with what Peter's saying is that we

363
00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:00.480
didn't see enough.

364
00:18:00.539 --> 00:18:01.980
It is the thing.

365
00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:04.799
You know, they always say at Trout and said it always leave them

366
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:05.339
wanting more.

367
00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:07.380
It's the old theatre adage.

368
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:08.220
Yeah, I get that.

369
00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:10.680
I don't think it would have felt stale.

370
00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:16.259
I don't know that it might, actually, and no unfairness to Jenna

371
00:18:16.259 --> 00:18:20.759
Louise, but I don't know that that would have worked as a single

372
00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:22.500
pairing for a whole other year.

373
00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:25.140
There could have maybe a bit of a play or let it go home, have

374
00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:26.880
someone else come in, that kind of thing.

375
00:18:26.940 --> 00:18:30.000
But no, there were definitely new ideas.

376
00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:35.160
And you can see, perhaps, preceding what Stephen Moffatt was going

377
00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:38.099
to do in the next few years that no, there were definitely ideas

378
00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:38.940
to explore.

379
00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:43.680
I just want, I really just want Matt and Missy up against each

380
00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:44.039
other.

381
00:18:44.099 --> 00:18:48.059
I think Missy is designed to be with Capaldi.

382
00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:50.700
Yeah, because they're both horribly Scottish.

383
00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:51.779
Yes, exactly.

384
00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:57.720
But having said that, I think if he'd continued and gone with the

385
00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:02.579
missy line, they may not have cast Michelle in that role. somebody

386
00:19:02.579 --> 00:19:03.299
more.

387
00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:06.059
Well, they may have because he works very well with actresses who

388
00:19:06.059 --> 00:19:07.200
are older than him, you know?

389
00:19:07.259 --> 00:19:09.359
If we look at Tasha Lamb.

390
00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:10.619
Olivia Coleman.

391
00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:14.160
Olivia Coleman, Madame Vastra, and of course, River Song, you

392
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:14.339
know.

393
00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:20.039
And of course, Helen McCrory in Vampires of Venice, which I think

394
00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:21.420
is a stunning performance.

395
00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:25.259
The 2 of them together in that one scene is one of the best

396
00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:27.240
performances, I think Matt gives.

397
00:19:27.299 --> 00:19:28.799
Have you seen her in anything else?

398
00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:36.839
She plays Sherry Blair in something. opposite, you know, Sheen, who

399
00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:40.920
is required by law to play Tony Blair and everything.

400
00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:42.900
Is it the Helen Mirner film?

401
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:44.039
Yeah, maybe it's the Queen.

402
00:19:44.099 --> 00:19:45.119
Maybe she's in the hair?

403
00:19:45.180 --> 00:19:46.740
Todd's got lots of questions.

404
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:50.039
I would just finish off with, when you put him against someone of

405
00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:59.039
genuine BAFTA, British heritage, royalty, such as Ms. McCrory.

406
00:19:59.099 --> 00:20:01.440
Oh my goodness, he blows the camera out.

407
00:20:01.500 --> 00:20:03.420
It's just beautiful to us.

408
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:04.980
You see it early on in the beast below.

409
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.019
She's the bloody queen, mate. those scenes sing.

410
00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:08.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

411
00:20:08.460 --> 00:20:11.160
I think he could have done another year.

412
00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:14.819
It would have been interesting to see what they would have done

413
00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:16.019
with Clara with him.

414
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:17.400
Would they have gone down the road?

415
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:19.619
They go in series 8.

416
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:22.859
But him leaving at that time, you know, it is what it is and it

417
00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:25.140
does leave you wanting more and I'm okay with that too.

418
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:38.039
Let's turn our tide back to series 5, and as we sit with it now

419
00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:40.559
our thoughts on that series.

420
00:20:40.619 --> 00:20:45.660
Karen and Arthur and Matt and the themes in there.

421
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:51.900
I think it vies with series 4 for the title of best new series

422
00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:52.799
series.

423
00:20:52.980 --> 00:20:55.440
It is really, really good.

424
00:20:55.500 --> 00:21:02.279
And it's absolutely, It's that thing, you know, it's like series

425
00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:07.619
one. where it's everything that everyone has been intending to do

426
00:21:07.619 --> 00:21:12.539
with Doctor Who for decades and let's just do this thing and it

427
00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:13.859
works incredibly well.

428
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:18.960
And Moffatt has clearly been, you know, thinking what would I do

429
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.740
if ever I became Doctor Who Showrunner since he was about 12.

430
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:28.259
And he has this thing, the fairy tale thing, the thing about

431
00:21:28.259 --> 00:21:32.880
childhood and adulthood, the thing about men being like children

432
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:36.420
all of that sort of stuff about maturity and also the stuff about

433
00:21:36.420 --> 00:21:37.980
storytelling.

434
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:39.180
And so it's perfect.

435
00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:41.759
It's a beautiful polished thing.

436
00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:45.839
And we were talking about deep breath just before we recorded.

437
00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:48.000
I've cleaned my teeth home slowly.

438
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:54.180
And you made the point, Todd, that its biggest flaw is that it's

439
00:21:54.180 --> 00:21:58.559
not the 11th hour and it's because the 11th hour is a perfect

440
00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:03.000
thing in the same way that a Christmas carol is a perfect thing.

441
00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:07.799
These are beautifully, cleverly plotted, well-written, well

442
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:07.799
offed.

443
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:09.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

444
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:10.079
Look.

445
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:14.400
And so series 5 is that, I think.

446
00:22:14.460 --> 00:22:20.759
Series 5 has its floors, but it is a great series of Doctor Who.

447
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:22.380
And it's brilliant where it needs to be.

448
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:23.579
It starts out well.

449
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:25.440
It ends brilliantly with Pandorica.

450
00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:28.559
It's got a great Christmas episode tagged on the end, and it's

451
00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:31.740
also got that crucial two-parter in the middle, which is really

452
00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:32.160
amazing.

453
00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:35.640
So what you take away from the season is structurally, it's really

454
00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:35.880
strong.

455
00:22:35.940 --> 00:22:36.779
Yeah.

456
00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:40.920
And it does the thing too, where we've had space arcs in series

457
00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:46.680
one to 4 and this arc is entirely about Amy and whether she is

458
00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:51.779
going to accept adulthood or cling on to her childhood.

459
00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:54.900
And so that's thematically really strong and particularly if

460
00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:59.279
you're a 50 year old watching a TV show intended for kind of 10

461
00:22:59.279 --> 00:22:59.940
year olds.

462
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.819
That's a very urgent theme, I think.

463
00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:04.799
For all of us.

464
00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:09.839
Every modern doctor under RTD and Moffat has one season where it

465
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:10.619
all comes together.

466
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:14.160
Unfortunately for Eccleston, it was his one and only season, which

467
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:14.880
all came together.

468
00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:16.559
But Tennant has series 4.

469
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:18.240
Capaldi has series 10.

470
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:22.079
Matt, in a slight reverse or his 1st season is the one where it

471
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:22.680
all comes together.

472
00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:26.220
And it's just, it's perfect piece of television, isn't it?

473
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:28.500
I actually think series 8 is strong.

474
00:23:28.619 --> 00:23:29.759
I mean, that's going off top.

475
00:23:29.819 --> 00:23:30.359
It's pretty good.

476
00:23:30.420 --> 00:23:33.180
I mean, there's other seasons which are pretty good and in some

477
00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:37.500
cases excellent, but just their best seasons coalesce and series 5

478
00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:38.759
is an example of that.

479
00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:43.079
So from this season, what's one to watch?

480
00:23:43.140 --> 00:23:44.880
If you had to recommend one.

481
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:46.440
Victory of the Daleks.

482
00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:48.720
I'd love it.

483
00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:49.619
Okay.

484
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:54.539
One to watch, one to avoid, and one that flies under the radar.

485
00:23:54.839 --> 00:23:57.299
Can I choose 2 parters for those?

486
00:23:57.359 --> 00:23:58.200
Whatever.

487
00:23:58.259 --> 00:24:01.380
So I think the Angels 2 parter is one to watch.

488
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:02.220
Phenomenal.

489
00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:03.000
So good.

490
00:24:03.059 --> 00:24:03.900
So great.

491
00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:05.220
And a brilliant cliffhanger.

492
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:08.940
I think the Silurians 2 parter is one to avoid.

493
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:14.460
How prescient.

494
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:17.759
Yeah, no, it's terrible.

495
00:24:17.819 --> 00:24:21.180
And I think that the beast below is massively underrated.

496
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:22.140
Oh, interesting.

497
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:23.700
Nice choice.

498
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:26.640
Yeah, no one can disagree with that, except I think the lodger is

499
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:27.480
massively underrated.

500
00:24:27.539 --> 00:24:28.680
Yeah it's very good too.

501
00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:30.119
I agree.

502
00:24:30.180 --> 00:24:34.619
I also think vampires of Venice gets overlooked a lot.

503
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:35.940
It really does, doesn't it?

504
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.640
That was going to be my overlooked because of Miss McCrory.

505
00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:38.940
Yeah.

506
00:24:38.940 --> 00:24:44.039
And even Amy's choice, which I really like, I think, is overlooked

507
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:45.900
too. like with the...

508
00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:48.900
It's very cleverly timed and played out, isn't it?

509
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:50.160
very subtle.

510
00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:52.500
It's very funny as well.

511
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.400
I think that that was the thing that I realised as we went through

512
00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:59.339
it this time, I'd never realised just it's written by a sitcom

513
00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:01.500
writer. you know, it's Simon Nye.

514
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:04.140
It is incredibly cleverly written.

515
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:10.799
And it's a very knowing, not with a claw hammer against the

516
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:15.660
kneecaps to every sitcom about older folk in older homes doing

517
00:25:15.660 --> 00:25:16.980
older things together.

518
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:18.779
Yes, push them off the roof.

519
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:21.240
I think if they could have got Penelope Keith, they would have

520
00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:22.079
done it to her.

521
00:25:22.619 --> 00:25:25.140
That was a misquote of the mutants.

522
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:27.660
They're all old people doing old things all together.

523
00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:31.980
Ouch. much like this podcast.

524
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:36.660
All right, let's jump to series six.

525
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:39.119
Where do you stand with series 6?

526
00:25:39.180 --> 00:25:41.279
Themes, thoughts.

527
00:25:41.339 --> 00:25:46.799
I think that it does have the problems that we identified, I think

528
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:51.119
it tries to go places that the show can't successfully go, that it

529
00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:53.220
just doesn't have the weight to deal with.

530
00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:59.940
And I can see what Moffat's going for, but I don't think it quite

531
00:25:59.940 --> 00:26:00.480
comes off.

532
00:26:00.539 --> 00:26:04.859
In spite of that, though, I like the arc, and I like the

533
00:26:04.859 --> 00:26:10.259
continuing sort of thing with the doctor that he is a problem that

534
00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:13.259
he doesn't tell the truth, that he isn't honest with his

535
00:26:13.259 --> 00:26:17.279
companions, and that he puts some through things for that reason.

536
00:26:17.339 --> 00:26:19.380
So you've got a problematic doctor.

537
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.740
You know, who invites everyone to watch him get shot dead by Lake

538
00:26:22.740 --> 00:26:26.819
Silencio, who doesn't tell Amy that he's concerned about her

539
00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:30.660
pregnancy, who doesn't tell Amy and Rory while we're going to the

540
00:26:30.660 --> 00:26:36.539
monastery acid mine thing doesn't say why we're doing that.

541
00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:40.740
And all of that stuff is kind of what I want from the doctor.

542
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:44.640
I think the end is much better than I remember it being, I think

543
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:46.619
the initial 2 parter is very good.

544
00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:48.299
I think it's got a lot going for it.

545
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:50.940
I agree with some of those comments.

546
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:55.259
Yeah, no, I like the 1st 2 parter, and on our rewatch, I certainly

547
00:26:55.259 --> 00:26:59.759
think the wedding of River Song is a good conclusion, and you

548
00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:03.420
pointed out how it's the reverse structure from the previous year

549
00:27:03.420 --> 00:27:07.319
and I have problems with a number of episodes throughout the

550
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:11.519
season, but I do appreciate it a lot more Goo babies aside.

551
00:27:11.579 --> 00:27:12.779
Yeah, Peter.

552
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:16.380
I think it suffers to an extent from living in the shadow of

553
00:27:16.380 --> 00:27:19.380
series five, but I like the fact that it's trying different

554
00:27:19.380 --> 00:27:19.859
things.

555
00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:23.819
What I said structurally about series 5 is kind of the reverse

556
00:27:23.819 --> 00:27:27.420
here in that you've got really good episodes, but they're not the

557
00:27:27.420 --> 00:27:28.680
arc episodes in this season.

558
00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:32.759
You've got episodes like the doctor's wife and the girl who waited

559
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:35.519
and specifically the god complex, and they, for me, are the

560
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:38.940
highlights, whereas it feels like they shouldn't be the highlights

561
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:39.720
feels like it should be.

562
00:27:39.779 --> 00:27:42.480
The opening episode, the closing episode, the big 2 passer in the

563
00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:42.660
middle.

564
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:44.880
Certainly not the big 2 passer in the middle.

565
00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:47.940
We've got the discovery of Nick Curran too that year.

566
00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:48.779
Yep.

567
00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:53.279
And don't forget, Adam Smith from Series 5, he contributed an

568
00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:56.460
awful lot to the success of that season by directing the 11th hour

569
00:27:56.460 --> 00:27:57.660
and the Angels 2 passer.

570
00:27:57.720 --> 00:27:59.640
Richard, any comments?

571
00:27:59.700 --> 00:28:02.460
I just can't get past the whole.

572
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:05.160
I'm not going to use the same terms that we did with the pregnancy

573
00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:05.759
thing.

574
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:11.519
You can't land this And he does his absolute best and sterling

575
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:16.920
casting, you know, of really, it was miraculous to resurrect Betty

576
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:21.900
Davis and put her back in the air. and have her to have her do

577
00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:22.500
that myth thing.

578
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:25.559
But it's just, oh, I'm really surprised there wasn't more of a

579
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:26.400
backlash, actually.

580
00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:30.960
But maybe that's the point of science fiction and to have us

581
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:32.700
question and feel queasy.

582
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:34.740
I don't think it's the point of Doctor Who.

583
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:38.640
And I really don't know where, and this is just on a narrative

584
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:38.940
thing.

585
00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:42.119
I just don't see how the character of Amy could come back from

586
00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:46.200
that with any sense of trust or any wish to travel with him

587
00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:46.500
anymore.

588
00:28:47.220 --> 00:28:51.240
I'm going to say something here, and I think it's to do with Amy

589
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:55.980
is that for me, it's Karen's performance in this season, especially

590
00:28:55.980 --> 00:29:02.039
towards the end, is that I really begin to like Amy a lot more.

591
00:29:02.099 --> 00:29:08.519
I'm not a big fan of hers in series 5 and or necessarily Karen's

592
00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:14.039
acting performances and I think she really grows in series 6 and I

593
00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:16.619
really enjoy her immensely in series 7.

594
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:18.240
Maybe it's the hair.

595
00:29:18.299 --> 00:29:19.079
I don't know.

596
00:29:19.140 --> 00:29:19.980
Got to get that in.

597
00:29:20.039 --> 00:29:22.859
Do you think it could specifically be the girl who waited because

598
00:29:22.859 --> 00:29:24.299
that's an absolute showcase for her?

599
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:26.099
She is great in that.

600
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:32.759
Maybe it's because Amy is a team with Rory, you know, and I love

601
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:33.720
Arthur so much.

602
00:29:33.779 --> 00:29:37.140
Maybe that's why rather than fighting against the previous season

603
00:29:37.140 --> 00:29:41.220
where she's in love with the doctor sort of thing and and I've

604
00:29:41.220 --> 00:29:45.660
always feel that poor Arthur is an afterthought, you know?

605
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:48.480
I don't know, maybe it's maybe it's just that storyline where

606
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:52.140
she's really in love with her husband that helps Nathan.

607
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:53.819
I'm not sure. articulating it.

608
00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:55.559
She isn't in love with the doctor.

609
00:29:55.619 --> 00:29:59.880
She just wants to jump him. after having a difficult time crawling

610
00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:01.859
through the crash of the Byzantium.

611
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:07.079
And it is established, isn't it, beyond any doubt in Amy's choice

612
00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.579
which is why it's called that, that she will choose Rory O for the

613
00:30:11.579 --> 00:30:12.539
doctor.

614
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:16.380
And given that she starts the season by escaping from her wedding

615
00:30:16.380 --> 00:30:18.119
by running off with the doctor.

616
00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:19.440
Yeah, you're right.

617
00:30:19.500 --> 00:30:23.579
Perhaps I'm mis remembering my only journey here where I actually

618
00:30:23.579 --> 00:30:27.180
begin to like her a lot sooner than series 6 is actually that 2nd

619
00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:30.119
half of series 5, whereas I really...

620
00:30:30.180 --> 00:30:32.519
That's probably a visceral feeling on your behalf, that you're in

621
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:33.539
Rory's corner.

622
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:37.559
And so Amy, what makes her interesting in series 5 is that she's

623
00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:40.440
not a clearly morally delineated character.

624
00:30:40.500 --> 00:30:42.599
Yeah, and I think that's deliberate.

625
00:30:42.660 --> 00:30:44.400
I think that's absolutely deliberate.

626
00:30:44.460 --> 00:30:47.160
I think that we are meant to see.

627
00:30:47.220 --> 00:30:50.880
So we get this synthesis at the end of five, don't we?

628
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:54.059
Where she says, yes, I'm going to my wedding and my imaginary

629
00:30:54.059 --> 00:30:57.119
friends going to be there and we're both going to run off with him

630
00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:57.900
together at the end.

631
00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:01.319
She gets to have both childhood and adulthood at the same time.

632
00:31:01.380 --> 00:31:07.200
And when she rejects a relationship with Arthur.

633
00:31:07.259 --> 00:31:11.460
She's like embarrassed by Rory in the 11th hour, like she kind of

634
00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:16.859
doesn't want to admit that he's her boyfriend so much so that at

635
00:31:16.859 --> 00:31:19.859
the end of that episode when we see the wedding dress on the back

636
00:31:19.859 --> 00:31:23.039
of the door, we actually don't know who she's going to marry.

637
00:31:23.099 --> 00:31:24.779
Is she going to marry Jeff?

638
00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:26.700
Is she going to marry Rory?

639
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:28.140
We actually don't know at that point.

640
00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:33.000
So it's only after that that we discovered that, uh, it's after

641
00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:36.299
the Angels 2 parter, isn't it, that we discover that it's Rory.

642
00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:39.480
And that's the synthesis of the childhood versus adult theme

643
00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:44.099
because when you are growing up, you get crushes on people. whereas

644
00:31:44.099 --> 00:31:46.559
when you become an adult, hopefully that turns into something more

645
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:50.099
and true love and the doctor is a crush and Rory is her true

646
00:31:50.099 --> 00:31:50.460
love.

647
00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:51.000
Yeah.

648
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:52.740
Okay.

649
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:53.940
One to watch.

650
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:55.440
One to avoid.

651
00:31:55.500 --> 00:31:56.700
It can be more than one.

652
00:31:56.819 --> 00:31:57.599
I've got a list.

653
00:31:57.779 --> 00:32:01.259
And ones that fly under the radar, series 6.

654
00:32:02.099 --> 00:32:08.279
I would. watch, I think the two-parter at the beginning is really

655
00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:08.519
great.

656
00:32:08.579 --> 00:32:11.759
It's epic and properly filming and stuff.

657
00:32:11.819 --> 00:32:12.839
I think it's really, really good.

658
00:32:12.900 --> 00:32:14.400
So that's one to watch.

659
00:32:14.460 --> 00:32:19.259
I think the one to avoid is probably night terrors, even though it

660
00:32:19.259 --> 00:32:22.200
has stuff going for it, I think it's pretty terrible, you're

661
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:22.740
pulling a face.

662
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.140
I am, the one to avoid is clearly gangers.

663
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:26.640
Oh, yes.

664
00:32:26.700 --> 00:32:27.240
God.

665
00:32:27.299 --> 00:32:28.440
Oh my goodness, yes.

666
00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:32.819
Yes, it's the deer of modern Doctor Who up until Christmas 2017.

667
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:34.380
Yeah, it is terrible.

668
00:32:34.500 --> 00:32:35.940
Wow.

669
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:37.500
Tick, tick.

670
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:39.299
I took both of those boxes.

671
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:42.299
I will also throw in.

672
00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:43.980
Oh yeah, night terrace is awful.

673
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:45.960
I hate the game as 2 parter.

674
00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:50.220
I avoid pirates because I just think it falls to pieces.

675
00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:50.940
Yeah, yeah.

676
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:52.259
And what's the other one?

677
00:32:53.099 --> 00:32:55.200
Let's kill Hitler.

678
00:32:55.259 --> 00:32:56.220
I'm having a conniption.

679
00:32:56.279 --> 00:32:59.339
Like, although there's good stuff in now, I just, I just

680
00:32:59.339 --> 00:32:59.759
struggle.

681
00:32:59.819 --> 00:33:01.140
Do you disagree with the premise of that?

682
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:03.900
No, we should kill him.

683
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:05.640
Thank you, Peter, as ever.

684
00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:09.359
No, it's it's the whole, I'm dying on the stairs, secret

685
00:33:09.420 --> 00:33:09.839
dreadful.

686
00:33:09.900 --> 00:33:12.000
Yeah, not even Matt can save that.

687
00:33:12.059 --> 00:33:13.140
Dicks in my mind.

688
00:33:13.259 --> 00:33:16.200
So I just really struggle with it.

689
00:33:16.259 --> 00:33:19.319
Several times in his era, Matt is asked to do the impossible.

690
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:23.400
And 99% of the time when I was to do that, he pulls it off, but in

691
00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:24.599
that sequence, he doesn't.

692
00:33:24.660 --> 00:33:27.480
Maybe in the Mr. Clever sequence in Nightmare and Silvery doesn't

693
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:28.619
pull it off, but yeah.

694
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:30.599
Also, everyone go and watch the gold complex.

695
00:33:30.660 --> 00:33:32.099
That's really great Yeah, yeah.

696
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:32.940
One to watch.

697
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:33.960
Yeah.

698
00:33:34.019 --> 00:33:35.039
The god complex.

699
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:38.940
I don't think it's the script necessarily either.

700
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:40.859
I think it's Nick Curran, I think is incredible.

701
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:42.000
Same with girl who waited.

702
00:33:42.059 --> 00:33:44.819
Look, the girl who waited in the gold complex are a 12 punch for

703
00:33:44.819 --> 00:33:46.500
me at the towards the end of the year.

704
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:49.799
Yeah, and they really need it at that point in the series. really

705
00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:50.220
needed.

706
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:51.660
They outshine.

707
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:56.880
And I mean, I know that Stephen's 2 part at the beginning and the

708
00:33:56.880 --> 00:34:00.960
wedding has some great stuff in there, but for me, these 2

709
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:01.559
outshine.

710
00:34:01.619 --> 00:34:05.279
Maybe it's because they're a little bit more not overly clever.

711
00:34:05.339 --> 00:34:08.940
Like not trying to be overly clever.

712
00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:12.659
Like, I just enjoy them and I think they're solidly directed and

713
00:34:12.659 --> 00:34:14.460
beautifully played by everyone.

714
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:16.079
They're like a town called Mercy the next year.

715
00:34:16.139 --> 00:34:17.880
They are the gold in Doctor Who.

716
00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:19.500
They are the great standalone episode.

717
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:23.039
The other one is the doctor's wife, which I think is also just

718
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:23.699
beautiful.

719
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:26.340
And beautifully directed.

720
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:27.360
Yes.

721
00:34:27.420 --> 00:34:28.980
And under the radar?

722
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:30.239
Got it.

723
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:30.659
Complex.

724
00:34:30.780 --> 00:34:33.780
Maybe gold complex. closing time is another one, which I've

725
00:34:33.780 --> 00:34:34.440
actually grow to love.

726
00:34:34.500 --> 00:34:36.719
I think closing time is pretty good.

727
00:34:36.780 --> 00:34:39.900
I like wedding of River song in a way that a lot of other people

728
00:34:39.900 --> 00:34:40.320
don't.

729
00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:59.039
Okay, series, let's go to series seven.

730
00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:00.960
Where do we sit with everything now?

731
00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:02.039
How do we feel about it?

732
00:35:02.099 --> 00:35:07.739
Well, I think it's the weakest of the three, but what I never

733
00:35:07.739 --> 00:35:12.119
realised before is how much better the 1st half is than the 2nd

734
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:16.380
half, and that 1st half with Amy and Rory is really actually quite

735
00:35:16.380 --> 00:35:16.739
great.

736
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:19.380
I think it's a great run.

737
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:20.639
It really is.

738
00:35:20.699 --> 00:35:24.360
Every single one of those episodes, has got something to recommend

739
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:26.340
it even if I like some more than others.

740
00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:26.940
Yeah.

741
00:35:26.940 --> 00:35:30.659
But I also do think that it does flow on to the next couple of

742
00:35:30.659 --> 00:35:31.260
episodes.

743
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:35.940
I actually do think the 1st 3 car episodes, the snowmen, Pelsis

744
00:35:35.940 --> 00:35:39.659
and John and Rings all have are all very solid.

745
00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:44.880
Then it sort of begins to hit a bit of a speed bump after that.

746
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.739
That 2012 run recaptures some of the Chihuard de Viv of series 5, I

747
00:35:49.739 --> 00:35:49.920
think.

748
00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:53.579
If there was like a series that's really confident in itself.

749
00:35:53.639 --> 00:35:57.360
It knows its characters and it takes you along with it.

750
00:35:57.420 --> 00:35:58.739
Richard?

751
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:02.159
I was just thinking along the same lines that it feels like a

752
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:05.820
lovely extension of Christmas going all through the year.

753
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:10.199
At the time it felt the haphazard nature of of the running of it

754
00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:11.159
the timing of it.

755
00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:15.000
So a late season, beginning after waiting so long since the

756
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:18.420
Christmas story, but we were treated to some very good things.

757
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:21.840
I don't think there's any poor story in the 1st mix at all

758
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:22.139
actually.

759
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:26.880
Angels is more than we expected and emotionally hits the mark.

760
00:36:26.940 --> 00:36:27.420
I'm coming back.

761
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:31.739
Power of 3 is a delight because of the casting because of Mark.

762
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:35.340
And no, actually, see, there are 2 kinds of scripts in this arc

763
00:36:35.340 --> 00:36:38.639
for me, and they're the ones entirely due to Mr. Moffat.

764
00:36:38.699 --> 00:36:42.960
They're the ones that, firstly, when he's at his most empowered at

765
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:46.559
the beginning of the writing period and, you know, he's on fire

766
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:50.820
and he's so full of wonderful complex ideas, but they do tend to

767
00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:53.940
take precedence over letting the actors do their job.

768
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:58.440
And there is a subsumation of the actors in those stories, and

769
00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:03.420
we've mentioned some of them already, where they are working to

770
00:37:03.420 --> 00:37:09.239
please Stephen and not working to their best skills as in working

771
00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:09.900
with each other.

772
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:14.579
So simpler scripts, which maybe don't deliver as much on paper

773
00:37:14.579 --> 00:37:17.940
such as I wouldn't say gold complex, because that's actually good

774
00:37:17.940 --> 00:37:18.659
on both levels.

775
00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:21.480
But things where the character driven lodge is a really good

776
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:22.199
example of.

777
00:37:22.260 --> 00:37:26.280
But in this season, just going back to it, you've got, um, say

778
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:29.639
town called Mercy, which is, you know, a play on an Elmore Leonard

779
00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:33.659
um, Western of the 50s and 60s, and again, very spare writing

780
00:37:33.659 --> 00:37:37.619
where the actors have to do things with their faces and their

781
00:37:37.619 --> 00:37:39.179
pauses and their tones.

782
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:42.239
And I think we're rewarded when they're just allowed to work.

783
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:46.679
Sometimes they swing towards one, sometimes to the other, and then

784
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:49.500
we get a nice balance between the two.

785
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:54.239
So for me, this season is at its most successful in the quiet

786
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:58.860
moments where the script is perhaps more paired, and the actors

787
00:37:58.860 --> 00:37:59.760
are allowed to do their work.

788
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.380
One to watch, one to avoid, one that flies under the radar.

789
00:38:04.500 --> 00:38:06.119
A town called Mercy?

790
00:38:06.179 --> 00:38:06.719
Absolutely.

791
00:38:06.780 --> 00:38:07.320
Yeah.

792
00:38:07.380 --> 00:38:08.699
It's really very good.

793
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:11.340
One to avoid.

794
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:12.840
Yeah, it's dismal, isn't it?

795
00:38:12.900 --> 00:38:15.960
I mean, I don't know how you could watch home because you'd wake

796
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:17.639
up after 40 minutes and suddenly it's over.

797
00:38:17.699 --> 00:38:19.320
Yeah, it's kind of terrible.

798
00:38:19.380 --> 00:38:21.239
What flies under the radar?

799
00:38:21.300 --> 00:38:22.260
Rings of Akatar.

800
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:23.280
Yeah, maybe Ackerton does.

801
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:24.780
Really?

802
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:28.079
I'm sitting here because like these are answers that I would be

803
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:29.460
giving, you know?

804
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:32.400
But I also think dinosaurs flies under the radar because I

805
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:33.300
actually really enjoy it.

806
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:33.900
I do too.

807
00:38:33.960 --> 00:38:36.659
And I think snowman is another one, which I just keep going back

808
00:38:36.659 --> 00:38:37.260
to all the time.

809
00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:38.519
It's one to watch.

810
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:42.239
Buds of Akatants, like Doreen's mopeds. fly under the radar.

811
00:38:42.300 --> 00:38:44.159
No, no, rings is definitely.

812
00:38:44.219 --> 00:38:45.420
And I also think the Bells of St.

813
00:38:45.420 --> 00:38:46.679
John also flies out of the red.

814
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:49.800
I think there's a lot going on there and whenever I come back to

815
00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:51.719
it, I think, oh, it's the bellses and John, and then I watch it

816
00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:52.860
and I go, oh, no, that's actually good.

817
00:38:52.980 --> 00:38:57.300
So when you hit that little sort of dull run of Cold War hide and

818
00:38:57.300 --> 00:38:59.760
journey to the centre of the Tartar, so you think, you know, we're

819
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:00.420
just marking time here.

820
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:02.460
Avoid, avoid, avoid.

821
00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:04.679
We also we're forgetting about the Crimson horror, which is

822
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:07.739
another one, which I think should be applauded. gone chalice.

823
00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:09.360
Although I really enjoy Cold War.

824
00:39:09.420 --> 00:39:11.880
And it is overcast.

825
00:39:11.940 --> 00:39:14.039
Yeah, and that's fine.

826
00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:18.179
And it is a tribute to the champions as we probably mentioned

827
00:39:18.179 --> 00:39:18.480
before.

828
00:39:18.539 --> 00:39:20.940
No, I really, really like that story and everyone plays it

829
00:39:20.940 --> 00:39:21.659
beautifully.

830
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:22.619
It's a lovely piece.

831
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:23.940
I like it when it's simple.

832
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:27.360
And then they're allowed to work and it does feel like a pert.

833
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:28.920
It feels like a Malcolm Hulk.

834
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:30.420
It's pared down novelette.

835
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:30.840
Yeah.

836
00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:34.199
And something we haven't mentioned that really works for the era

837
00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:36.300
really elevates it is the Christmas episodes.

838
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:39.960
So Matt gets four, like David had four, and like Capaldi gets

839
00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:40.260
four.

840
00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:44.699
And 3 out of 4 are amazingly good.

841
00:39:44.699 --> 00:39:46.559
And they really bring the era up, I think.

842
00:39:46.679 --> 00:39:50.519
Well, one of my questions on my sheet here is about the Christmas

843
00:39:50.519 --> 00:39:55.019
specials and how as a group, they compare to tenants and what you

844
00:39:55.019 --> 00:39:57.000
think of each of those episodes.

845
00:39:57.059 --> 00:39:58.199
I agree with you.

846
00:39:58.260 --> 00:40:00.659
I think a Christmas carol is just perfectly crafted.

847
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:02.579
The snowman, I adore the snowman.

848
00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:03.300
Yeah, it's great.

849
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:07.500
I think it's my favourite only because I get brain drained from

850
00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:10.260
watching a Christmas carol because they can all, you know, timey

851
00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:12.300
whimey. and time of the doctor.

852
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:14.219
I really enjoy now. good.

853
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:18.719
And then there's the doctor and the widow and the wardrobe.

854
00:40:18.780 --> 00:40:20.280
And nobody dies.

855
00:40:20.340 --> 00:40:24.599
That's something that is a real positive in, I guess, that. thought

856
00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:25.139
you would hate that.

857
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:26.639
Yeah, they're positive for you.

858
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:28.199
Oh, no.

859
00:40:28.260 --> 00:40:28.980
Don't get me wrong.

860
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:32.219
I'm trying to find the good in it, but it is like the worst of

861
00:40:32.219 --> 00:40:33.360
them as far as I'm concerned.

862
00:40:33.420 --> 00:40:38.099
Yeah, I think there's just nothing very much there and there's a

863
00:40:38.099 --> 00:40:41.760
lot of kind of filling in time and it is that sort of thing where

864
00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:44.880
it's kind of like, oh, I've got to do another one of these, you

865
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:48.360
know, what's a Christmas book that we love?

866
00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:52.199
But something needs to happen when they go into Narnia.

867
00:40:52.260 --> 00:40:53.280
You know what I mean?

868
00:40:53.340 --> 00:40:54.960
Like there needs to be the horrible queen.

869
00:40:55.019 --> 00:41:00.000
There needs to be something in there, not just acid rain.

870
00:41:00.059 --> 00:41:03.000
Yeah, there's no villain, and that's kind of a problem, I think.

871
00:41:03.059 --> 00:41:07.320
Russell's Christmas specials were always entertaining, but they

872
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:10.679
were rarely amongst the best that each year had to offer, whereas

873
00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:13.380
a lot of Moffat's Christmas specials are among the best of the

874
00:41:13.380 --> 00:41:13.500
year.

875
00:41:13.619 --> 00:41:14.219
Yeah.

876
00:41:14.219 --> 00:41:15.780
Yeah, that thing.

877
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:20.039
I mean, Christmas Carol is so surprising because all of the others

878
00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:24.599
have been just very much the sort of thing that you can watch when

879
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:29.099
you're you're having a kind of post-Christmas lunch coma. and you

880
00:41:29.099 --> 00:41:30.900
don't have to pay complete attention to it.

881
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:34.019
And that's a deliberate choice and it's the right choice.

882
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:37.320
And then to have Moffatt come along and do something complex and

883
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:41.159
interesting and heartbreaking and just magical.

884
00:41:41.219 --> 00:41:44.820
The up to that point, voyage of the damned is my favourite because

885
00:41:44.820 --> 00:41:49.380
I actually think it's the most entertaining of all of and most

886
00:41:49.380 --> 00:41:52.079
substantial of all of the RTD ones.

887
00:41:52.139 --> 00:41:53.280
That's just for me anyway.

888
00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:01.860
All right, it's time to snog marry a void.

889
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:05.219
Claire Skinner, Tasha Lem, or Kate Stewart?

890
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:07.800
Sorry.

891
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:11.039
I would marry Tasha Lamb.

892
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:12.599
Snogger, so that works.

893
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:14.639
Yeah, she's fabulous.

894
00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:16.079
She's a Romulan, you know.

895
00:42:16.139 --> 00:42:20.639
And I think she's sort of really funny and likeable, and the

896
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:24.539
doctor clearly kind of likes her, so, and, you know, he's got good

897
00:42:24.539 --> 00:42:26.039
taste in women, I suppose.

898
00:42:26.099 --> 00:42:26.519
Does he?

899
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:27.179
I don't know.

900
00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:28.440
I can't tell it's not my area.

901
00:42:28.500 --> 00:42:29.519
Marilyn Monroe.

902
00:42:29.579 --> 00:42:30.300
Yeah, that's true.

903
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:31.500
The Queen?

904
00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:37.199
And I, and I would, I would snog Claire Skinner.

905
00:42:37.260 --> 00:42:38.280
She's quite nice.

906
00:42:38.340 --> 00:42:42.539
I think she's rather sweet. and I would avoid what's her face

907
00:42:42.539 --> 00:42:44.400
because she's absolutely phoning it in.

908
00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:46.380
Right.

909
00:42:46.619 --> 00:42:49.559
And Peter agrees he's not in there.

910
00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:51.420
I love for Kate Stewart.

911
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:52.199
What's your?

912
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:54.960
If she's turning it in, you can have phone sex with her.

913
00:42:55.980 --> 00:43:01.619
I really love...

914
00:43:02.699 --> 00:43:04.619
The same characters?

915
00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:05.400
Yes.

916
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:08.280
Well, I've always loved Tasha Yar.

917
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:12.420
I thought she was just superb, if a little Olly Edge in a sinner

918
00:43:12.420 --> 00:43:13.320
later career.

919
00:43:13.380 --> 00:43:17.280
I'd really love Claire Skinner, and I've seen her in other things

920
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:18.300
and there's just...

921
00:43:18.300 --> 00:43:22.079
Again, I'd probably Snog Bill Bailey.

922
00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:26.519
Because he's really underserviced, so he'll be definitely

923
00:43:26.519 --> 00:43:27.539
needing.

924
00:43:27.539 --> 00:43:29.340
And he's also just so brilliant and funny.

925
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:31.920
And again, it's those things that, I mean, there's nothing for him

926
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:34.260
to do, but that face.

927
00:43:34.619 --> 00:43:40.260
So, yeah, if it was Tashi Yaklisk, you know, I think you could

928
00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:41.699
marry Arabella Weir.

929
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:42.960
She's played the doctor.

930
00:43:43.019 --> 00:43:45.539
You'd really want quiet times though.

931
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:47.280
She could wait a bit shouty.

932
00:43:47.340 --> 00:43:51.599
You know, it's like having a, I'm having a really lovely fun manic

933
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:54.480
time with, you know, one of your favourite people.

934
00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:55.980
I won't mention anyone right now.

935
00:43:56.039 --> 00:43:58.380
I look at someone on the series anyway.

936
00:43:58.440 --> 00:43:59.639
We know she can cook.

937
00:43:59.699 --> 00:44:00.780
Well, she can cook.

938
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:03.659
Yeah, I mean, it's like snogging Bonnie Langford or living with

939
00:44:03.659 --> 00:44:04.440
Bonnie Langford.

940
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:06.000
I mean, do you really want to hear those scales?

941
00:44:06.059 --> 00:44:06.420
No, both.

942
00:44:06.420 --> 00:44:07.199
Every morning?

943
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:08.340
Scales every morning?

944
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:09.000
Yes.

945
00:44:12.059 --> 00:44:16.079
Well, I am going to marry Tasha...

946
00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:18.840
No, no, the skin of evil.

947
00:44:18.900 --> 00:44:20.699
Tasha Lem.

948
00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:25.320
I'm going to avoid Claire Skinner because just can't stand her

949
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:25.860
voice.

950
00:44:26.579 --> 00:44:31.199
And I will therefore snog Kate Stewart even though she's phoning

951
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:31.500
it in.

952
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:32.280
Brilliant.

953
00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:33.900
It's a slight overbite there too.

954
00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:34.860
I'd be...

955
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:36.000
Oh, just not Kate Stewart.

956
00:44:36.059 --> 00:44:38.519
She got a more blank face than her dad, and I'm talking about the

957
00:44:38.519 --> 00:44:40.619
end of series, he's a cyberman.

958
00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:43.980
Oh dear.

959
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:45.119
All right.

960
00:44:45.179 --> 00:44:50.880
Matt's outfit change from series 5 to the end of series 7.

961
00:44:50.940 --> 00:44:55.739
Certainly a lot more tailored and costume.

962
00:44:55.739 --> 00:44:58.320
Like, what do we think about that change from the Raggedy Man

963
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:01.679
through the green coat to the fun?

964
00:45:01.739 --> 00:45:02.400
Yes, Richard.

965
00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:06.119
I was really wondering why Marvel was allowed to dictate how the

966
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:09.719
action figures would be made from now on because it really just

967
00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:13.980
feels like something you'd buy, you know, from a stand rather than

968
00:45:13.980 --> 00:45:15.119
in an op shop.

969
00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:19.139
But then so does Jody's and that's actually bought in an option

970
00:45:19.139 --> 00:45:21.480
not working on anything. for me right now.

971
00:45:21.539 --> 00:45:23.880
I don't like it when it's so designed.

972
00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:27.300
Then I love Tom's season 18, so there you go.

973
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:29.039
Well, that's June Hudson, though.

974
00:45:29.099 --> 00:45:30.300
Yes, yes.

975
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:31.079
She's crazy.

976
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:32.099
Why wasn't she asked?

977
00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:35.280
I don't like it at all.

978
00:45:35.340 --> 00:45:36.840
The final costume?

979
00:45:36.900 --> 00:45:37.860
No, awful.

980
00:45:37.980 --> 00:45:40.079
And it's the Doctor Who thing.

981
00:45:40.139 --> 00:45:44.400
I think that over that last 10 years of the classic series where

982
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:48.179
everyone wore a coat that went to their knees, I think it was

983
00:45:48.179 --> 00:45:51.000
absolutely the right thing to avoid.

984
00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:55.260
And so Sylvester McCoy's costume comes as a bit of a relief.

985
00:45:55.260 --> 00:46:00.300
And the previous costumes all kind of avoid that, I guess, maybe

986
00:46:00.300 --> 00:46:01.440
Eccleston.

987
00:46:01.500 --> 00:46:06.119
I love the series 5 series 6 costume that Matt wears.

988
00:46:06.179 --> 00:46:07.260
I think it's really terrific.

989
00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:08.699
I like the green coat.

990
00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:09.840
Yeah, sweet.

991
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:11.519
But I really dislike the purple.

992
00:46:11.579 --> 00:46:13.559
I think it's it's too designed.

993
00:46:13.619 --> 00:46:16.559
It's too much like a Doctor Who outfit.

994
00:46:16.619 --> 00:46:20.940
It sort of reflects the change in Matt's performance as well and

995
00:46:20.940 --> 00:46:24.480
he's a bit more straitjacketed by this costume that he's wearing

996
00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:28.019
rather than that kind of free-wheeling energy that he had in the

997
00:46:28.019 --> 00:46:28.380
early days.

998
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:31.800
Now, that's a really important point and something June Hudson did

999
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:35.400
allude to in one of the DWMs is that the costume and she was

1000
00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:39.420
talking about what she designed with Lala, not for Lala.

1001
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:42.420
She said, I believe we always get a much more expressive

1002
00:46:42.420 --> 00:46:46.440
performance from our actors when they are involved in the

1003
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:49.559
costuming and are allowed to imbue their character in with the

1004
00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:49.980
design.

1005
00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:52.619
And it's certainly true of an architectural space as well, whether

1006
00:46:52.619 --> 00:46:55.980
that be domestic or something that's done for the public, a

1007
00:46:55.980 --> 00:46:56.940
theatre or whatever.

1008
00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:00.659
There is a sense of when you have community involvement or you're

1009
00:47:00.659 --> 00:47:03.300
thinking about what's going to go on with what you're designing.

1010
00:47:03.420 --> 00:47:06.900
It will imbue the colour of the performance, and that's absolutely

1011
00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:10.079
what happens here, and I think possibly why we don't like it.

1012
00:47:10.139 --> 00:47:12.840
The fact that it's super designed isn't itself aesthetically

1013
00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:15.840
questionable, but it really does constrain the actor's

1014
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:16.199
performance.

1015
00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:20.940
I also think the fact that we're not exactly in love with that

1016
00:47:20.940 --> 00:47:25.500
last series 7 V, you know, and he's wearing that coat, sort of

1017
00:47:25.500 --> 00:47:27.239
ties into that too, you know?

1018
00:47:27.300 --> 00:47:28.260
But I do agree.

1019
00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:32.699
I just think having the shorter coat is quite an interesting thing

1020
00:47:32.699 --> 00:47:36.300
like the observation, I should say, that, you know, it just we're

1021
00:47:36.300 --> 00:47:39.360
not in the long coats, which make it a costume, really.

1022
00:47:39.420 --> 00:47:41.760
Who goes around with that unless it's winter, I guess.

1023
00:47:41.820 --> 00:47:43.500
And Russell made that very clear.

1024
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:46.920
He wanted it just to be one step away from what you're wearing in

1025
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:51.900
the street or with, in Chris's case, a Barnsley accountant on a

1026
00:47:51.900 --> 00:47:54.360
cheeky Friday off with the secretary.

1027
00:47:54.420 --> 00:47:57.360
But, you know, what they do when they think they're being hit, what

1028
00:47:57.360 --> 00:47:58.920
straight boys do when they want to look cool.

1029
00:47:58.980 --> 00:48:02.460
But yeah, it should be something that's accessible to a young

1030
00:48:02.460 --> 00:48:02.820
fan.

1031
00:48:12.900 --> 00:48:16.860
We're gonna talk about something that Stephen really goes for

1032
00:48:16.860 --> 00:48:20.219
which is the families, the families of our lead.

1033
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:23.099
So let's talk about Amy's family.

1034
00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:24.960
She's got an aunt, a mum and dad.

1035
00:48:25.019 --> 00:48:25.559
Any thoughts?

1036
00:48:25.619 --> 00:48:27.659
Oh, she's got that thing that hangs down from the ceiling.

1037
00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:29.460
Sheila Reed.

1038
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:31.860
That's unfair.

1039
00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:36.300
I mean, you know, I know she doesn't observe her boundaries, but

1040
00:48:36.300 --> 00:48:37.440
that's harsh.

1041
00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:40.199
I like having relatives to keep an eye on you.

1042
00:48:40.260 --> 00:48:42.900
What do you think about the families that he creates?

1043
00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:43.920
Maybe I'll phrase it this way.

1044
00:48:43.980 --> 00:48:45.000
We've got Amy's family.

1045
00:48:45.059 --> 00:48:48.059
Aunt, mum, and dad, Rory's family.

1046
00:48:48.119 --> 00:48:54.420
Brian, Clara's family, dad, mum, Linda, and Gran, Rivers family

1047
00:48:54.420 --> 00:48:59.159
her mum and dad, and the Paternoster family, Bastro Jenny

1048
00:48:59.159 --> 00:48:59.820
Instracts.

1049
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:03.059
What do you think about the families that are created outside of

1050
00:49:03.059 --> 00:49:03.840
the court for?

1051
00:49:03.900 --> 00:49:07.320
Well, I mean, the only real proper family that's created is the

1052
00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:12.480
Paternoster gang, and it's, I've said this before, that it's

1053
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:17.400
absolutely typical that Moffat should create a sort of series of

1054
00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:21.960
secondary characters who, uh, you know, like a married couple, one

1055
00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:27.059
of whom is a Silurian, and, you know, their Santarian Butler, that

1056
00:49:27.059 --> 00:49:30.000
that's the sort of thing that they're very sort of strange and

1057
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:34.800
Doctor Who-ish. and we've seen him fish into his toy box full of

1058
00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:42.360
action figures before, for, you know, the finale of the era in

1059
00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:45.420
time of the doctor and for the finale of series 5.

1060
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:47.639
And I think they're really good.

1061
00:49:47.699 --> 00:49:48.719
I think they're really funny.

1062
00:49:48.780 --> 00:49:51.059
They're not at all the sort of thing that Russell wants to do

1063
00:49:51.059 --> 00:49:55.320
which is to create a kind of TV family that you might see in

1064
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:56.099
another show.

1065
00:49:56.159 --> 00:50:00.179
Soap, which is RTD, the other feels more poor Cornell, as in comic

1066
00:50:00.179 --> 00:50:03.780
book writing, because the characters and the way they assemble is

1067
00:50:03.780 --> 00:50:07.800
a very comic DC Marvel way of doing it, which is quirky and fun

1068
00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:09.059
and very contemporary.

1069
00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:14.940
I think, you know, Russell is much more aware of what's going on

1070
00:50:14.940 --> 00:50:20.400
in TV generally and what makes for good successful television than

1071
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:21.000
Moffatt.

1072
00:50:21.059 --> 00:50:24.119
And I think, you know, Moffatt's a very skilled TV writer with

1073
00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:26.159
sort of a particular set of talents.

1074
00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:29.099
And so he's not interested in doing that thing.

1075
00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:32.219
He's not interested in creating a family that's like a

1076
00:50:32.219 --> 00:50:34.619
recognisable family from another TV show.

1077
00:50:34.679 --> 00:50:36.059
Do you think that's a problem?

1078
00:50:36.300 --> 00:50:41.880
Look, personally, I like the families in Russell a lot.

1079
00:50:41.940 --> 00:50:45.300
It's one of the most important reasons that that's my favourite

1080
00:50:45.300 --> 00:50:51.239
era of Doctor Who is, you know, Jackie, Francine, Sylvia. like

1081
00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:54.840
they're all just wonderful, Neres, Annalise.

1082
00:50:55.139 --> 00:50:58.800
Russell is aware of the comedy value of a family.

1083
00:50:58.860 --> 00:51:00.420
That's not Steven's mode of comedy.

1084
00:51:00.539 --> 00:51:03.960
The only family that Stephen's interested in is the one that we're

1085
00:51:03.960 --> 00:51:07.800
interested in, the nuclear family, Amy, Rory, River, the doctor.

1086
00:51:07.860 --> 00:51:09.539
That's the family he's interested in.

1087
00:51:09.900 --> 00:51:12.179
Brian works, but...

1088
00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:13.320
Yeah, oh, yeah.

1089
00:51:13.380 --> 00:51:14.099
Brian's cool.

1090
00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:18.780
And Brian is in, you know, basically in 2 episodes, isn't he?

1091
00:51:18.840 --> 00:51:20.579
And they're the 2 Chibnal episodes.

1092
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:21.900
Is that all he's in?

1093
00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:27.420
And I just think it's such tremendously great casting and both of

1094
00:51:27.420 --> 00:51:29.880
those episodes are properly funny.

1095
00:51:29.940 --> 00:51:32.039
And so Mark Williams is perfect.

1096
00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:35.639
It works so well that when Chen will become showrunner, he tries

1097
00:51:35.639 --> 00:51:37.559
to recapture lightning in a bottle with Graham.

1098
00:51:37.619 --> 00:51:39.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1099
00:51:39.239 --> 00:51:43.500
And, you know, Graham's fitfully funny, but, um, I think.

1100
00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:44.820
Who said cream's fit and funny?

1101
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:48.119
fitfully, like, in fits.

1102
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:54.539
Do you think that Matt's doctor should have on the main show met

1103
00:51:54.539 --> 00:51:56.219
any classic companions?

1104
00:51:57.059 --> 00:52:01.739
Obviously, he was in the Sarah Jane Adventures with Aunt Joe. It's

1105
00:52:01.739 --> 00:52:02.219
gorgeous.

1106
00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:03.599
It's really good Oh, yes.

1107
00:52:03.659 --> 00:52:04.380
It's wonderful.

1108
00:52:04.500 --> 00:52:08.460
Is there any classic companion that you could ever have seen on

1109
00:52:08.460 --> 00:52:10.920
the main series with him in an episode if you had to write

1110
00:52:10.920 --> 00:52:11.159
something?

1111
00:52:11.219 --> 00:52:11.940
Dodo?

1112
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:13.139
Yeah, I knew you were going to say that.

1113
00:52:13.619 --> 00:52:18.000
Well, in no way following that statement at all.

1114
00:52:18.059 --> 00:52:21.360
I was so excited at the thought that it's a 50th anniversary.

1115
00:52:21.420 --> 00:52:24.119
At last, Carol Anne Ford gets to make a reappearance, and I

1116
00:52:24.119 --> 00:52:27.179
thought the sheet was cruel, and there was no reason for her to

1117
00:52:27.179 --> 00:52:31.559
put her under a sheet, and, you know, so... with Pete and the

1118
00:52:31.559 --> 00:52:32.519
silver coal.

1119
00:52:32.579 --> 00:52:33.300
What was the question?

1120
00:52:33.539 --> 00:52:36.179
I've forgotten too, God.

1121
00:52:36.239 --> 00:52:37.260
Chameleon?

1122
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:37.860
Nissa?

1123
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:39.239
Chameleons in all of them.

1124
00:52:39.300 --> 00:52:40.860
I...

1125
00:52:40.860 --> 00:52:42.900
Chameleon isn't all of it.

1126
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:45.659
I agree, Katie Manning should have been in this series.

1127
00:52:45.719 --> 00:52:48.300
I don't want to see any old companions back.

1128
00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:49.260
Does that make me a bad person?

1129
00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:50.340
Yeah, very on that.

1130
00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:51.840
I just, I'm done with that.

1131
00:52:51.900 --> 00:52:53.099
No, you're very dark personally.

1132
00:52:53.159 --> 00:52:55.380
Well, Nathan, what about returning monsters?

1133
00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:58.079
How do you think in this era, the Daleks, the Cyberman, the

1134
00:52:58.079 --> 00:52:58.619
Centaurans?

1135
00:52:58.679 --> 00:53:01.500
Ice where is the cellarines and the great intelligence are handled

1136
00:53:01.500 --> 00:53:03.900
versus something like the silence or the angels?

1137
00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:08.460
I don't think he cares for Daleks at all.

1138
00:53:08.519 --> 00:53:11.639
And so he does some Dalek stories, but they're not at all about

1139
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:12.360
the Daleks.

1140
00:53:12.420 --> 00:53:15.659
I mean, the big Dalek story asylum of the Daleks.

1141
00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:19.860
He's entirely about Amy and Rory's relationship and the Daleks

1142
00:53:19.860 --> 00:53:21.719
aren't really the focus at all.

1143
00:53:21.780 --> 00:53:24.539
So I don't think he's that interested in the Daleks.

1144
00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:27.179
I don't think he's that interested in any of those things.

1145
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:30.360
I mean, you start seeing Cybermen come along in stories that

1146
00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:34.199
aren't Cybermen's stories, like in, you know, Pandora or

1147
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:34.500
whatever.

1148
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:38.400
He just sees them as part of the Doctor Who aesthetic, but he

1149
00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:39.599
doesn't want to write stories about them.

1150
00:53:39.659 --> 00:53:42.239
He wants to write. doing it because he thinks he should.

1151
00:53:42.300 --> 00:53:44.639
Yeah, yeah, he's much more interested in his own, much more

1152
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:48.000
interesting villains and monsters, like the silence and the

1153
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:48.420
angels.

1154
00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:51.599
And in the people, you know, like he's interested in telling

1155
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:56.699
stories about the Dr. Amy and Rory or the doctor and Clara and

1156
00:53:56.699 --> 00:53:59.699
he's not that interested in telling stories about the sidemen at

1157
00:53:59.699 --> 00:53:59.940
all.

1158
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:03.900
And the one thing that he does, I think, is the great intelligence

1159
00:54:03.900 --> 00:54:07.800
where he brings that back, gives it a proper backstory that

1160
00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:13.440
doesn't ruin it, and creates a pretty entertaining update of that

1161
00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:13.860
concept.

1162
00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:15.719
Okay, fair enough.

1163
00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:18.539
I think the Simon thing's interesting because I think Stephen

1164
00:54:18.539 --> 00:54:22.139
actually uses the Simon a lot more than, say, the Daleks. and I

1165
00:54:22.139 --> 00:54:26.400
really like it in the series 5 finale where you've got the lone

1166
00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:30.179
side with all of the tentacles coming out of the head.

1167
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:31.739
He tries to do something different there.

1168
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:35.039
But it is a case of, well, I'll pay lip service to it because when

1169
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:40.860
Amy gets taken in series 6, I'd expected then some sort of we're

1170
00:54:40.860 --> 00:54:42.000
going to have to search for her.

1171
00:54:42.059 --> 00:54:45.719
But instead, you just get the big cyberman fleet at the beginning

1172
00:54:45.719 --> 00:54:49.500
of the next episode and then they're done.

1173
00:54:49.559 --> 00:54:51.480
You know, it's like 5 minutes and you're gone.

1174
00:54:51.539 --> 00:54:55.980
He sort of creates an in-story reason why there's a giant break in

1175
00:54:55.980 --> 00:54:57.000
the middle of that series.

1176
00:54:57.059 --> 00:55:02.880
So there's a giant brake so that Matt can go off and find the baby

1177
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:07.260
which I think is kind of cute, like the in-story reason why there

1178
00:55:07.260 --> 00:55:11.519
isn't a series 5 with David Tennant because he decides he doesn't

1179
00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:13.920
want a companion at the end of Planet of the Dead and he's not

1180
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:15.000
going to do a series this year.

1181
00:55:15.059 --> 00:55:18.840
Yeah, but also, I mean, I think, you know, if we talk about the

1182
00:55:18.840 --> 00:55:22.320
Centaurans and Solurians, he's not interested in doing them the

1183
00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:24.000
way that they're traditionally done.

1184
00:55:24.059 --> 00:55:30.000
Like, let's have the one off characters that are not necessarily

1185
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:33.179
indicative of their race.

1186
00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:34.079
So a different twist.

1187
00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:39.239
Rather than mining those kind of B list aliens, like the Silurians

1188
00:55:39.239 --> 00:55:42.840
we need it and still need a really good auton 2 parter.

1189
00:55:42.900 --> 00:55:45.719
Yeah, he's gone back with the autons.

1190
00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:47.820
There are autons in Pandora.

1191
00:55:47.820 --> 00:55:50.340
Yeah, but, you know, we need a story built around them.

1192
00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:52.619
We need a Zigon 2 partter for the autons.

1193
00:55:52.739 --> 00:55:53.699
Yeah, yeah.

1194
00:55:53.760 --> 00:55:58.559
What are the most successful monsters here in this in this era for

1195
00:55:58.559 --> 00:55:58.800
you?

1196
00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:02.400
One off or other created by Stephen?

1197
00:56:02.460 --> 00:56:04.440
The silence are a pretty amazing concept.

1198
00:56:04.500 --> 00:56:06.239
Yeah, and they look great.

1199
00:56:06.300 --> 00:56:07.079
Yeah, yeah.

1200
00:56:07.139 --> 00:56:08.699
They are freaky.

1201
00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:11.820
Well, I mean, they're a bit like the angels. you know, it's

1202
00:56:11.820 --> 00:56:15.539
usually just a sort of weird high concept thing where the angels

1203
00:56:15.539 --> 00:56:18.360
sort of interfere with the way the story is told, you know, like

1204
00:56:18.360 --> 00:56:22.079
all the, although the angels move, we don't get to see that happen

1205
00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:26.340
because as the audience, we're looking at them so they can't move

1206
00:56:26.340 --> 00:56:29.400
while we're looking at them with the exception of that one moment

1207
00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:33.900
in Forest of the Dead, and then the silence who justify the gaps

1208
00:56:33.900 --> 00:56:37.440
in the storytelling, you know, like we don't get to see the bit

1209
00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:40.679
that the silence is in because the characters can't remember it.

1210
00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:45.179
And so it is very high concept and they're both monsters that have

1211
00:56:45.179 --> 00:56:47.460
an effect on how the narrative goes.

1212
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:52.139
Such a meta structural critique of how film is it.

1213
00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:52.920
It's so French.

1214
00:56:52.980 --> 00:56:56.039
It's so, it is.

1215
00:56:56.039 --> 00:56:58.320
It's so many. can't make that claim for the ice warrior.

1216
00:56:58.380 --> 00:57:00.179
Not generally, no.

1217
00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:01.920
Oh, I would have to say river song.

1218
00:57:02.519 --> 00:57:07.860
And reasons for that because Mel is, you know, a point of danger

1219
00:57:07.860 --> 00:57:10.980
to not just, you know, not just to the characters, but to the

1220
00:57:10.980 --> 00:57:13.679
structure of the season, indeed, of Doctor Who.

1221
00:57:13.739 --> 00:57:17.219
River Song has the power to completely pull apart what Doctor Who

1222
00:57:17.219 --> 00:57:17.460
is.

1223
00:57:17.579 --> 00:57:20.340
You can't imagine this era without her, can you?

1224
00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:22.380
I didn't like her at the time.

1225
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:24.840
I've got to say, I don't know if I was the only one in the room

1226
00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:25.380
about that.

1227
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:31.199
I just thought Alex is very good and has a lovely breezy, again, a

1228
00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:37.559
lovely 1940s American, not really slapstick, more of that, a

1229
00:57:37.559 --> 00:57:42.599
screwgall comedy style, but the cool girl comedy style I've talked

1230
00:57:42.599 --> 00:57:43.139
about before.

1231
00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:47.340
But I actually think she handles it really, really well because in

1232
00:57:47.340 --> 00:57:51.840
many ways it is a one note character, she just is there to play

1233
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:52.440
sass.

1234
00:57:52.679 --> 00:57:55.500
It's a lovely knowing quality, isn't it?

1235
00:57:55.559 --> 00:57:55.800
Yeah.

1236
00:57:55.860 --> 00:57:59.820
But then there's moments where, so she's injured by the angel in

1237
00:57:59.820 --> 00:58:01.139
angels take that hat.

1238
00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:03.480
It swings for me an angel's take Manhattan.

1239
00:58:03.539 --> 00:58:05.639
She's allowed to show vulnerability.

1240
00:58:05.699 --> 00:58:09.539
I know she's done it before, but there's that sense of, ah, there's

1241
00:58:09.539 --> 00:58:12.059
the human underneath and there's the fragility and there's that

1242
00:58:12.059 --> 00:58:15.360
you're actually on panic stations the entire time we see you

1243
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:15.900
aren't you?

1244
00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:17.880
Nothing is assured in your life.

1245
00:58:17.940 --> 00:58:24.960
I like the last kiss in the series 6 opening 2 parter where we're

1246
00:58:24.960 --> 00:58:28.980
warned that the last kiss for her is coming and then we see it

1247
00:58:28.980 --> 00:58:29.400
happen.

1248
00:58:29.460 --> 00:58:30.960
She kisses him goodbye.

1249
00:58:31.019 --> 00:58:33.659
He's never experienced that before.

1250
00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:36.780
And so she now knows that we've reached that stage of the

1251
00:58:36.780 --> 00:58:39.480
relationship where she never gets to kiss him goodbye again.

1252
00:58:39.539 --> 00:58:41.760
And I think she plays that beautifully.

1253
00:58:41.820 --> 00:58:45.599
And that's, you know, it's such a science fiction thing, but you

1254
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:47.579
can still understand how to feel about it.

1255
00:58:47.639 --> 00:58:51.239
I think it's very good I like that superb opening sequence in the

1256
00:58:51.239 --> 00:58:55.860
time of angels where she escapes and she's really, she's really

1257
00:58:55.860 --> 00:58:57.420
Catherine Hepburn in that.

1258
00:58:57.599 --> 00:59:00.659
Yeah, no, that's a that's a beautiful moment.

1259
00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:01.320
Yeah.

1260
00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:04.559
I just want the revenge of the attracti.

1261
00:59:04.619 --> 00:59:05.340
Why didn't that ever happen?

1262
00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:06.659
They're great.

1263
00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:08.280
You know, that could have been fun.

1264
00:59:08.340 --> 00:59:09.900
They looked like they were having a ball.

1265
00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:23.880
The opening titles for the Matt Smith era and the music goes with

1266
00:59:23.880 --> 00:59:24.239
them.

1267
00:59:24.300 --> 00:59:27.840
Obviously, we've got two sets of titles eventually.

1268
00:59:27.900 --> 00:59:31.139
How do you feel about the titles sequence?

1269
00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:31.739
this era.

1270
00:59:31.800 --> 00:59:37.260
Well, I think we decided the 1st title, the series 5 and 6 title

1271
00:59:37.260 --> 00:59:39.719
looks like a colonoscopy, doesn't it, really?

1272
00:59:41.280 --> 00:59:44.820
Second one looks like the mill threw up in a kaleidoscope.

1273
00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:47.219
Yeah, yeah, I don't like the 2nd one at all.

1274
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:49.559
So I don't think either of them are very good.

1275
00:59:49.619 --> 00:59:53.340
I think the music's okay, but the various David Tennant related

1276
00:59:53.340 --> 00:59:57.539
versions that we got during the RTD era, I think, are pretty

1277
00:59:57.539 --> 00:59:58.139
great.

1278
00:59:58.199 --> 01:00:00.599
I think I canola's version of the theme is really great.

1279
01:00:00.659 --> 01:00:05.400
I don't think that the theme during Moffat's time on the show is

1280
01:00:05.400 --> 01:00:06.179
all that good.

1281
01:00:06.239 --> 01:00:10.380
I do like the little intro sequence that he introduces right at

1282
01:00:10.380 --> 01:00:10.800
the beginning.

1283
01:00:10.860 --> 01:00:14.159
It's always with me for this, the little horns thing.

1284
01:00:14.219 --> 01:00:15.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1285
01:00:15.300 --> 01:00:16.380
Well, however, okay.

1286
01:00:16.440 --> 01:00:18.000
I'm not musically inclined.

1287
01:00:18.059 --> 01:00:21.840
I think it is a sad truth of modern Doctor Who, that every time

1288
01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:25.199
the title sequence and the title music changes, it gets a little

1289
01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:25.559
bit worse.

1290
01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:28.019
Oh, ow.

1291
01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:32.940
Speaking of words, here are a list of people you may know.

1292
01:00:33.000 --> 01:00:35.280
Well, actually some are better than others.

1293
01:00:35.340 --> 01:00:36.239
Amelia.

1294
01:00:36.300 --> 01:00:42.000
Mandy and Timmy, Elliot, young Kazran, little regenerating girl

1295
01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:46.019
Toby Avery, Adam, young Mel's, young Rory, George, Cyril, and Lily

1296
01:00:46.019 --> 01:00:46.739
Arwell.

1297
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:48.239
No, actually, they're okay.

1298
01:00:48.300 --> 01:00:52.860
Laura, the robot girl, Digby and Francesca and young Walter, Angie

1299
01:00:52.860 --> 01:00:57.059
and Artie, Maitland, Mary, young Clara, Barnable.

1300
01:00:57.119 --> 01:00:59.639
There are a list of child actors from this era.

1301
01:00:59.699 --> 01:01:01.800
Do you think there's too many of them?

1302
01:01:03.300 --> 01:01:05.699
Half of them are pretty charming.

1303
01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:06.960
Toby Avery.

1304
01:01:07.019 --> 01:01:08.340
Toby Avery is very good.

1305
01:01:08.460 --> 01:01:09.239
Young Amy.

1306
01:01:09.300 --> 01:01:10.679
Yeah, young Amy's.

1307
01:01:10.679 --> 01:01:11.760
Amelia is fantastic.

1308
01:01:11.820 --> 01:01:13.019
Toby Avery's great.

1309
01:01:13.079 --> 01:01:14.880
Young Cozran's, yeah, great.

1310
01:01:14.940 --> 01:01:17.039
I do actually like Cyril and Lily.

1311
01:01:17.099 --> 01:01:17.940
Yeah, I do too.

1312
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:19.320
Barnable Edwards is not too bad.

1313
01:01:20.219 --> 01:01:21.900
Tom Tom.

1314
01:01:21.960 --> 01:01:24.480
Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom.

1315
01:01:24.659 --> 01:01:27.539
That's the worst dad joke.

1316
01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:29.280
And I just don't care.

1317
01:01:30.059 --> 01:01:32.280
Like, you didn't care for that question.

1318
01:01:32.940 --> 01:01:35.639
But Todd, tell us about some ones you didn't like.

1319
01:01:35.699 --> 01:01:38.519
No, no, don't. time.

1320
01:01:38.519 --> 01:01:41.519
Okay, so, Fraser.

1321
01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:42.840
The little boy from Night Terrors.

1322
01:01:42.900 --> 01:01:43.320
Tell us about him.

1323
01:01:43.380 --> 01:01:44.159
George.

1324
01:01:44.219 --> 01:01:46.800
Yeah, he's quite well directed.

1325
01:01:46.860 --> 01:01:48.239
He really plays it well. yeah.

1326
01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:51.900
Yeah, I think that he's given very simple things to do.

1327
01:01:51.960 --> 01:01:53.699
And so it's a good thing?

1328
01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:54.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1329
01:01:55.019 --> 01:01:58.380
But they direct around him and that's a beautifully directed story

1330
01:01:58.380 --> 01:02:01.199
even if it's not that good a story.

1331
01:02:01.500 --> 01:02:03.599
Speaking of directors.

1332
01:02:03.659 --> 01:02:05.639
Peter mentioned some of these people before.

1333
01:02:05.699 --> 01:02:06.480
Here's some names.

1334
01:02:06.539 --> 01:02:07.440
Jamie Payne.

1335
01:02:07.500 --> 01:02:09.300
Time of the Doctor Hyde.

1336
01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:13.860
Nick Curran, day of the doctor, asylum, angels, golf complex, the

1337
01:02:13.860 --> 01:02:14.519
girl who waited.

1338
01:02:14.579 --> 01:02:18.960
Saw Metstein, name of the doctor, Crimson Horror, Snowman, Mercy

1339
01:02:18.960 --> 01:02:23.159
Dinosaur, Toby Haynes, Impossible Astronaut, Day of the Moon

1340
01:02:23.159 --> 01:02:26.760
Christmas Carol, Big Bang, Pandora, Adam Smith, 11th hour, Time of

1341
01:02:26.760 --> 01:02:28.199
the Angels, Flesh, and Stone.

1342
01:02:28.260 --> 01:02:35.579
Richard Clark, who does night terrors, and the doctor's wife.

1343
01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:37.980
Yeah, see, they're all good, aren't they?

1344
01:02:38.039 --> 01:02:39.239
They're all really good.

1345
01:02:39.300 --> 01:02:40.619
I mean, I...

1346
01:02:40.679 --> 01:02:40.980
Yeah.

1347
01:02:41.039 --> 01:02:44.940
RTD had sort of solid directors, but you've got these new cameras

1348
01:02:44.940 --> 01:02:48.119
under Moffat and you've got a bit more money and you've got high

1349
01:02:48.119 --> 01:02:49.199
definition and stuff.

1350
01:02:49.260 --> 01:02:53.820
And so you get directors like Harran who just do incredible

1351
01:02:53.820 --> 01:02:54.840
things.

1352
01:02:54.900 --> 01:02:55.559
Adam Smith as well.

1353
01:02:55.619 --> 01:02:59.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah. proper visual style and proper like Nick Curran

1354
01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:03.179
in particular is good no matter the quality of the material.

1355
01:03:03.239 --> 01:03:05.639
So you mentioned Jamie Payne there.

1356
01:03:05.699 --> 01:03:06.719
Jamie Payne is also good.

1357
01:03:06.780 --> 01:03:09.719
I think he does a sterling job of the time of the doctor, but he

1358
01:03:09.719 --> 01:03:10.679
can't really save hide.

1359
01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:11.519
Yeah.

1360
01:03:11.519 --> 01:03:14.940
Metstein, I think, is really good.

1361
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:15.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1362
01:03:15.780 --> 01:03:18.300
Yeah, he sort of see series 7 specific, isn't it?

1363
01:03:18.420 --> 01:03:22.679
My vote is for Saul, just not just for consistency of quality, but

1364
01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:26.039
with the surprising things he does and the variation in what he

1365
01:03:26.039 --> 01:03:27.780
achieves and subtleties.

1366
01:03:27.900 --> 01:03:30.480
And yeah, and he's visually explorative and creative.

1367
01:03:30.539 --> 01:03:31.500
But you're right.

1368
01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:34.559
Everyone who you've mentioned there goes out of their way to not

1369
01:03:34.559 --> 01:03:36.300
do what's expected on TV.

1370
01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:39.539
It's the inverse of 1980s Doctor Who.

1371
01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:43.019
In the moth ad era, it's a shock when something is not well

1372
01:03:43.019 --> 01:03:43.559
directed.

1373
01:03:43.619 --> 01:03:46.679
Yeah, and I would point towards the gangers, which I think is a

1374
01:03:46.679 --> 01:03:51.360
bad script absolutely massacred by its director and cast who, you

1375
01:03:51.360 --> 01:03:53.460
know, might also be massacred by their director.

1376
01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:12.000
Is there a pivotal moment in this era that sticks in your mind

1377
01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:17.039
like that just either sums it up or just is just there that you

1378
01:04:17.039 --> 01:04:20.159
kind of go, this is Doctor Who, for me, this is Matt Smith, this

1379
01:04:20.159 --> 01:04:21.239
is it?

1380
01:04:21.360 --> 01:04:26.639
Is it the cliffhanger in the middle of the angels story where the

1381
01:04:26.639 --> 01:04:28.739
Graham Norton little animated?

1382
01:04:31.199 --> 01:04:34.139
He's determined to ruin our show.

1383
01:04:35.219 --> 01:04:37.980
Fish fingers encosted an Amelia.

1384
01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:39.420
Absolutely nails it for me.

1385
01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:41.699
And I thought, you're actually the doctor I've been waiting for

1386
01:04:41.699 --> 01:04:42.719
since Tom.

1387
01:04:42.780 --> 01:04:46.440
And that's just my little fanboy child's 12 year old person.

1388
01:04:46.500 --> 01:04:47.880
I felt 12 again.

1389
01:04:47.940 --> 01:04:50.760
The worst is we've already seen it.

1390
01:04:50.820 --> 01:04:53.400
It's, um, and she plays it beautifully.

1391
01:04:53.460 --> 01:04:55.260
Karen and Madame Kawalkian together.

1392
01:04:55.320 --> 01:04:59.099
It's unforgivable for me and I almost stopped watching.

1393
01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:04.739
I think it's incredible that the absolute best moments of the era

1394
01:05:04.739 --> 01:05:06.420
are the very start and the very end.

1395
01:05:06.480 --> 01:05:08.880
There's a lot of great stuff in between.

1396
01:05:08.940 --> 01:05:13.679
But for me, the highlights of Matt Smith's time as the doctor. time

1397
01:05:13.679 --> 01:05:17.099
of the doctor, and the 1st thing that he shoots time of angels.

1398
01:05:17.159 --> 01:05:20.039
I think those episodes absolutely knock it out of the park.

1399
01:05:20.820 --> 01:05:22.559
A product energy, isn't there, in time of angels?

1400
01:05:22.619 --> 01:05:26.280
Yeah, there is Time of Angels, it roars with new style.

1401
01:05:26.340 --> 01:05:29.820
I think I think Paul Cornell described Delta and the Bannerman as

1402
01:05:29.820 --> 01:05:30.119
that one.

1403
01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:32.039
It's true, too.

1404
01:05:32.099 --> 01:05:33.119
It's true too, yeah.

1405
01:05:33.179 --> 01:05:34.139
It's really incredible.

1406
01:05:34.199 --> 01:05:39.480
It steps everything up in the writing and the production, and then

1407
01:05:39.480 --> 01:05:42.119
you have a really successful era, and for my money, you come back

1408
01:05:42.119 --> 01:05:46.559
and have the saddest and most emotional farewell to a doctor ever

1409
01:05:46.559 --> 01:05:48.059
in time of the doctor.

1410
01:05:48.119 --> 01:05:49.019
I think it's pretty amazing.

1411
01:05:49.079 --> 01:05:49.800
They're tent poles.

1412
01:05:49.860 --> 01:05:53.820
That moment where Clara kneels down in front of the doctor, because

1413
01:05:53.820 --> 01:05:59.280
he can't pull the Christmas cracker, he's too weak because he's so

1414
01:05:59.280 --> 01:06:03.719
old and she holds it and pulls it, like she's kind of looking

1415
01:06:03.719 --> 01:06:05.340
after her grandfather or something.

1416
01:06:05.400 --> 01:06:06.840
I think that's incredible.

1417
01:06:06.900 --> 01:06:07.800
So good.

1418
01:06:07.860 --> 01:06:10.800
And the scene where she's talking to the time lords through the

1419
01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:11.099
crack.

1420
01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:13.199
If you love him and you should.

1421
01:06:13.260 --> 01:06:14.579
So good.

1422
01:06:14.639 --> 01:06:18.300
But I think that I genuinely think that one thing you never put in

1423
01:06:18.300 --> 01:06:23.880
a trap speech at the end of angels is pretty great.

1424
01:06:23.940 --> 01:06:28.019
And it's one of those sort of let's showcase the doctor.

1425
01:06:28.079 --> 01:06:32.760
I guess him telling the Atraxi to run at the end, that's

1426
01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:35.519
deliberately engineered, touch the...

1427
01:06:35.699 --> 01:06:37.860
Well, it's the moment he becomes the doctor.

1428
01:06:37.980 --> 01:06:39.960
He puts the bow tie on.

1429
01:06:40.019 --> 01:06:45.659
He steps forward through the montage of other doctors and says, I'm

1430
01:06:45.659 --> 01:06:47.219
the doctor, basically run.

1431
01:06:47.219 --> 01:06:50.219
And the delivery of that line is so perfect.

1432
01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:55.920
It's really, you know, gave all these dead theps behind me. that's

1433
01:06:55.920 --> 01:06:56.099
right.

1434
01:06:57.539 --> 01:07:03.239
But yes, I'm going to go back to Richard and it's that fish

1435
01:07:03.239 --> 01:07:06.480
fingers and custard moment in that dialogue where he says, well

1436
01:07:06.480 --> 01:07:08.639
I'm talking about the crack in your wall. and just got to me like

1437
01:07:08.639 --> 01:07:10.260
you know, he became the doctor in that moment.

1438
01:07:10.380 --> 01:07:13.139
That was just, I think, extraordinary.

1439
01:07:13.139 --> 01:07:16.800
In that moment where he's being all light and childish with Amy

1440
01:07:16.800 --> 01:07:19.980
and then he drops and says, that must be one hell of a scary crack

1441
01:07:19.980 --> 01:07:20.519
in your wall.

1442
01:07:20.940 --> 01:07:27.900
It's also a very kind of moffety thing to have him deduce that.

1443
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:34.320
You know, that the doctor as conceived by Moffat and maybe Matt

1444
01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:39.059
more than Peter is someone who makes deductions.

1445
01:07:39.119 --> 01:07:42.900
And so he's deduced that the wall is the important thing because

1446
01:07:42.900 --> 01:07:46.800
Amelia is so unfazed by all the other weird stuff. that's

1447
01:07:46.800 --> 01:07:47.579
happening in that scene.

1448
01:07:48.059 --> 01:07:50.039
Fraser Gregory.

1449
01:07:50.099 --> 01:07:53.340
Says in 10 years time, what do you think your overriding memory

1450
01:07:53.340 --> 01:07:55.860
impression of the era will be?

1451
01:07:56.519 --> 01:07:58.139
Joy.

1452
01:07:58.199 --> 01:08:00.719
Yeah, I think it'll still be highlight.

1453
01:08:00.780 --> 01:08:04.199
Yeah, 3 years when you get utterly rely on Doctor Who.

1454
01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:09.659
A narcic, creative, dangerous, on a spin.

1455
01:08:09.719 --> 01:08:12.840
And we know what Mr. Moffat was going through in the middle of

1456
01:08:12.840 --> 01:08:16.859
this, so and I definitely reflecting what we see on screen.

1457
01:08:16.859 --> 01:08:18.840
Yeah, it's so much energy.

1458
01:08:18.899 --> 01:08:24.119
And a climax in the 50th where all of fandom was celebrating the

1459
01:08:24.119 --> 01:08:24.420
show.

1460
01:08:24.420 --> 01:08:25.680
And the wider poppy shows.

1461
01:08:25.739 --> 01:08:26.579
It was huge, wasn't it?

1462
01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:30.359
And a really successful special with the day of the doctor and

1463
01:08:30.359 --> 01:08:33.060
then a really beautiful goodbye with time of the doctor.

1464
01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:34.439
I mean, poetic, isn't it?

1465
01:08:34.500 --> 01:08:35.640
How did that go in the US?

1466
01:08:35.699 --> 01:08:37.680
I wasn't on that one when we recorded it.

1467
01:08:37.739 --> 01:08:42.420
How did Day of the Doctor do outside of the UK, Todd, as a...

1468
01:08:42.479 --> 01:08:43.020
Do you remember?

1469
01:08:43.079 --> 01:08:44.279
The figures for it?

1470
01:08:44.340 --> 01:08:45.720
Broadly successful all around the world.

1471
01:08:45.779 --> 01:08:49.199
Well, the Matt Smith era is the most successful in... it now?

1472
01:08:49.260 --> 01:08:50.460
I thought that was tenant.

1473
01:08:50.520 --> 01:08:52.260
No, no, absolutely not.

1474
01:08:52.319 --> 01:08:52.680
Really?

1475
01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:53.100
Yeah.

1476
01:08:53.159 --> 01:08:54.239
Is that because of promotion?

1477
01:08:54.300 --> 01:08:57.899
There was a real attempt to do it and to make it a jumping on

1478
01:08:57.899 --> 01:08:58.619
point as well.

1479
01:08:58.680 --> 01:09:02.279
You know, you've got an automatic jumping on point.

1480
01:09:02.340 --> 01:09:07.439
Remember also the little thing where Amy narrated the premise of

1481
01:09:07.439 --> 01:09:08.939
the show at the beginning of the thing.

1482
01:09:09.000 --> 01:09:13.439
So it was very definitely intended to try and garner an audience

1483
01:09:13.439 --> 01:09:16.260
and then you've got the shooting on location in the United States

1484
01:09:16.260 --> 01:09:18.840
at the beginning of series 6 and so on.

1485
01:09:18.899 --> 01:09:22.140
And it's an unremarked upon fact, the Doctor Who, during the Matt

1486
01:09:22.140 --> 01:09:28.199
Smith era, moved more towards generic sci-fi fantasy stateside and

1487
01:09:28.199 --> 01:09:29.640
provided, you know, not very much.

1488
01:09:29.699 --> 01:09:32.699
It was still essentially Doctor Who-ish, but in that team of the

1489
01:09:32.699 --> 01:09:34.260
doctor and Amy and Rory.

1490
01:09:34.319 --> 01:09:38.279
You had a team of leads who you could transpose to something like

1491
01:09:38.279 --> 01:09:40.020
supernatural and it would still work.

1492
01:09:40.739 --> 01:09:46.619
Yes, I think my overall thing in 10 years time, it's the 4 of

1493
01:09:46.619 --> 01:09:46.800
them.

1494
01:09:46.859 --> 01:09:52.079
It's the doctor, Amy, Rory, and River, and finding out who she is

1495
01:09:52.079 --> 01:09:54.119
and the bringing of that family together.

1496
01:09:54.180 --> 01:09:56.100
That just sits with me.

1497
01:09:56.159 --> 01:09:58.979
I think the fact that Amy and Maury dominate the era so much for

1498
01:09:58.979 --> 01:10:04.319
2.5 years, and Matt, Matt's boyish enthusiasm, the old man trapped

1499
01:10:04.319 --> 01:10:07.319
in the young man's body, the way he portrays that, I think they're

1500
01:10:07.319 --> 01:10:09.960
the things that, you know, plus that theme music at the beginning

1501
01:10:09.960 --> 01:10:13.020
just is something that I sort of take with me.

1502
01:10:13.380 --> 01:10:16.800
I think you'll still be talking about Lily and Cyril in 10 years

1503
01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:17.159
time.

1504
01:10:19.319 --> 01:10:21.899
Another final listener question.

1505
01:10:21.960 --> 01:10:24.119
Nathan Botomley.

1506
01:10:24.180 --> 01:10:26.520
So what is the best story of the Matt era?

1507
01:10:26.579 --> 01:10:28.199
Is that what I ask?

1508
01:10:28.260 --> 01:10:28.560
Yes.

1509
01:10:28.619 --> 01:10:30.000
What is the best story?

1510
01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:30.899
Very imaginative.

1511
01:10:32.220 --> 01:10:34.500
Have you met your podcast?

1512
01:10:35.460 --> 01:10:38.159
The best story of Matt Tera.

1513
01:10:38.220 --> 01:10:45.300
I am going to say, is, I'm going to say that Pandora opens in the

1514
01:10:45.300 --> 01:10:45.840
Big Bang.

1515
01:10:46.380 --> 01:10:48.300
But I'm probably wrong.

1516
01:10:48.359 --> 01:10:51.000
I mean, the angels two-parter is incredible.

1517
01:10:51.060 --> 01:10:53.399
I think town called Mercy is incredible.

1518
01:10:53.460 --> 01:10:57.479
But that two-parter and just everything that happens there and the

1519
01:10:57.479 --> 01:11:01.079
way that it's so much about Moffatt's approach to the show as a

1520
01:11:01.079 --> 01:11:05.520
series of stories that Doctor Who isn't a world where a time lord

1521
01:11:05.520 --> 01:11:09.539
has adventures, it's a type of story that you can tell and that

1522
01:11:09.539 --> 01:11:14.279
nearly becomes completely explicit in that two-parter.

1523
01:11:14.340 --> 01:11:18.119
It's very, very central to Moffatt's kind of conception of what

1524
01:11:18.119 --> 01:11:19.739
he's doing when he's running the show.

1525
01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:22.439
So, and plus it's just really entertaining.

1526
01:11:22.500 --> 01:11:27.300
Time of angels, 2 passer, buy a hair, buy a hair on Pretty Angel

1527
01:11:27.300 --> 01:11:28.020
Bob's head.

1528
01:11:29.039 --> 01:11:31.560
Victory of the Daleks, obviously.

1529
01:11:32.039 --> 01:11:35.279
So much fun. really liked it.

1530
01:11:37.319 --> 01:11:40.319
Has anyone mentioned angels in Manhattan?

1531
01:11:40.380 --> 01:11:41.159
Yeah, okay.

1532
01:11:41.279 --> 01:11:42.539
Maybe that one.

1533
01:11:42.600 --> 01:11:45.840
And not for the reasons I would have thought whilst watching it

1534
01:11:45.840 --> 01:11:52.380
but just in hindsight, there's a gorgeous sense of what we are now

1535
01:11:52.380 --> 01:11:52.979
about to lose.

1536
01:11:53.039 --> 01:11:53.939
Yeah.

1537
01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:57.180
And it's got the centrality of storytelling as well.

1538
01:11:57.239 --> 01:11:58.500
It's really well told.

1539
01:11:58.560 --> 01:11:58.859
Yeah.

1540
01:11:58.920 --> 01:12:00.300
I think they're all great.

1541
01:12:00.359 --> 01:12:01.500
Like it's so hard to choose.

1542
01:12:01.560 --> 01:12:05.939
I keep going coming back to the 11th hour. which I adore.

1543
01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:08.520
It's perfect storytelling, isn't it?

1544
01:12:08.579 --> 01:12:10.619
You know, and a Christmas carol is at the other end of that

1545
01:12:10.619 --> 01:12:10.920
season.

1546
01:12:10.979 --> 01:12:13.020
Even though I'm saying it's not my favourite.

1547
01:12:13.140 --> 01:12:16.859
The way it's written is just so incredibly clever.

1548
01:12:16.920 --> 01:12:19.979
We tend to bookend the Christmas stories, but they are possibly, if

1549
01:12:19.979 --> 01:12:23.399
I had a favourite, yes, the snowman and Christmas Carol would be

1550
01:12:23.399 --> 01:12:24.000
favourites.

1551
01:12:36.659 --> 01:12:41.159
I've got the Jenny Laird Award nominations, if there's any, to be

1552
01:12:41.159 --> 01:12:41.640
given to anyone.

1553
01:12:41.699 --> 01:12:43.140
How many children did you mention?

1554
01:12:43.319 --> 01:12:45.060
Thank you, Richard.

1555
01:12:45.119 --> 01:12:47.939
We'll go with that for me, although it was going to be something

1556
01:12:47.939 --> 01:12:50.460
to do with the direction of nightmare in silver, I think.

1557
01:12:51.239 --> 01:12:54.600
Oh, no, it's shockingly poorly directed, really quite amateu-ish.

1558
01:12:54.720 --> 01:12:58.560
I think maybe that is it, that you give him a really good director

1559
01:12:58.560 --> 01:13:01.380
for his 1st story.

1560
01:13:01.500 --> 01:13:06.180
I'm talking gamen, and then Gaiman starts to develop the feeling

1561
01:13:06.180 --> 01:13:09.359
that this is the sort of thing that Doctor Who can routinely do.

1562
01:13:09.359 --> 01:13:13.979
And then you give this guy the job of doing the 2nd Neil Gaiman

1563
01:13:13.979 --> 01:13:16.380
script, which is not as strong as the 1st one and then is

1564
01:13:16.380 --> 01:13:20.460
completely blown out of the water by how amateurishly it's

1565
01:13:20.460 --> 01:13:21.060
directed.

1566
01:13:21.119 --> 01:13:24.539
It's a big, big, weird creative choice.

1567
01:13:24.600 --> 01:13:27.659
I think the entirety of the gangers 2 parter.

1568
01:13:27.720 --> 01:13:29.159
It just doesn't sit well with me.

1569
01:13:29.220 --> 01:13:33.479
There's kernels of good ideas in there, which don't go anywhere.

1570
01:13:33.539 --> 01:13:37.260
The performances are all really off and I've seen some of those

1571
01:13:37.260 --> 01:13:40.079
performance in other roles and they've been absolutely fine.

1572
01:13:40.140 --> 01:13:42.840
I can only imagine it's the direction.

1573
01:13:42.899 --> 01:13:46.500
But it's weird performance ticks and the whole thing is an

1574
01:13:46.500 --> 01:13:47.579
unsettling mess.

1575
01:13:47.640 --> 01:13:50.939
The melange, isn't it, of kernel mustard in the spa with the latex

1576
01:13:50.939 --> 01:13:51.659
dildo?

1577
01:13:51.720 --> 01:13:53.460
Nothing is coming together well.

1578
01:13:53.520 --> 01:13:55.380
Did you use the D word?

1579
01:13:55.439 --> 01:13:56.100
Possibly.

1580
01:13:56.699 --> 01:14:01.079
I know what your Jenny Laird award is, besides the prevalence

1581
01:14:01.079 --> 01:14:01.859
child actors.

1582
01:14:01.920 --> 01:14:04.680
It's the nudity in time of God.

1583
01:14:04.800 --> 01:14:09.239
Oh, the nudity in the time of the doctor. doesn't, it's a bit...

1584
01:14:09.300 --> 01:14:10.500
I didn't see it.

1585
01:14:10.560 --> 01:14:10.979
Yeah.

1586
01:14:11.039 --> 01:14:12.479
Is it cut out?

1587
01:14:12.539 --> 01:14:16.260
It's also the appalling wig they put on Matt because now I've seen

1588
01:14:16.260 --> 01:14:16.500
it.

1589
01:14:16.560 --> 01:14:18.300
I can't unsee it. you know what I mean?

1590
01:14:18.359 --> 01:14:20.520
Like I just keep looking, that's not his hair.

1591
01:14:20.579 --> 01:14:23.159
That's not right. about Amy's hair at the end?

1592
01:14:23.220 --> 01:14:24.779
That's a wig as well.

1593
01:14:24.840 --> 01:14:25.680
That's her choice.

1594
01:14:25.800 --> 01:14:27.479
Amy's choice.

1595
01:14:27.539 --> 01:14:30.180
It does feel very true Ronnie's Christmas special, doesn't it?

1596
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:31.199
Once they get their wigs out.

1597
01:14:31.260 --> 01:14:32.699
Where is this going to go?

1598
01:14:32.760 --> 01:14:36.779
Well, from the worst to the best, or our Bonnie Langford, for the

1599
01:14:36.779 --> 01:14:40.500
most startling discovery or moment in this entire era.

1600
01:14:40.560 --> 01:14:43.380
I think I'm going to give it to Nick Curran.

1601
01:14:43.500 --> 01:14:47.340
I'm going to give it to Nick Curran because he does some Sherlock

1602
01:14:47.340 --> 01:14:50.760
I think, as well, and he establishes the visual style of that

1603
01:14:50.760 --> 01:14:51.119
show.

1604
01:14:51.180 --> 01:14:52.920
I think he's amazing.

1605
01:14:52.979 --> 01:14:56.699
He's the one possible person that you could have got back to do

1606
01:14:56.699 --> 01:14:57.600
the day of the doctor.

1607
01:14:57.659 --> 01:15:00.539
That was absolutely the right choice because that was such an

1608
01:15:00.539 --> 01:15:01.260
important episode.

1609
01:15:01.319 --> 01:15:03.600
He's really really good.

1610
01:15:03.659 --> 01:15:09.600
And I think that he introduces something completely novel in the

1611
01:15:09.600 --> 01:15:12.420
way that the god complex is told.

1612
01:15:12.479 --> 01:15:16.619
I think that Doctor Who has never been as visually adventurous as

1613
01:15:16.619 --> 01:15:20.460
that, not even in his previous story, which is also very stylish.

1614
01:15:20.520 --> 01:15:22.319
But yeah, he's incredible.

1615
01:15:22.380 --> 01:15:26.159
I might give the Bonnie Langford to James Corden because he is

1616
01:15:26.159 --> 01:15:27.720
extremely marmite.

1617
01:15:27.899 --> 01:15:31.680
Maybe more on the dislike than the like side for a lot of people

1618
01:15:31.680 --> 01:15:35.520
but I think that those 2 episodes, closing time in the lodger, give

1619
01:15:35.520 --> 01:15:38.760
him a sympathetic character to play and he actually rises to the

1620
01:15:38.760 --> 01:15:39.119
occasion.

1621
01:15:39.180 --> 01:15:42.180
He's good He's a good performer and he plays very, very well.

1622
01:15:42.239 --> 01:15:46.020
You know, and we have to also always remember that the actor is

1623
01:15:46.020 --> 01:15:49.260
not the personality of the, you know, the performer.

1624
01:15:49.319 --> 01:15:54.119
They are different species and his work should not be IOD'd with

1625
01:15:54.119 --> 01:15:55.079
who he is as a person.

1626
01:15:55.140 --> 01:15:59.880
Um, because then we wouldn't really like many people, would we?

1627
01:16:00.180 --> 01:16:04.079
Yeah, and to give Matt his due, he's a very generous leading man

1628
01:16:04.140 --> 01:16:07.500
see him giving space to James Corden to build that relationship

1629
01:16:07.500 --> 01:16:10.859
between them because the episode specifically the lodger relies on

1630
01:16:10.859 --> 01:16:11.039
that.

1631
01:16:11.100 --> 01:16:13.739
And he's smart enough to know that always reflects well on him

1632
01:16:13.739 --> 01:16:16.500
because those silent moments you're actually watching the doctor.

1633
01:16:16.560 --> 01:16:18.420
So you go back to, oh, you're quiet.

1634
01:16:18.479 --> 01:16:19.199
I'm going to look at you.

1635
01:16:19.439 --> 01:16:22.979
Mine would be Caitlin, younger, Amelia.

1636
01:16:23.039 --> 01:16:24.479
She's just adorable.

1637
01:16:24.539 --> 01:16:26.340
You just, that was mine.

1638
01:16:26.399 --> 01:16:27.960
Well, I don't have it too.

1639
01:16:28.020 --> 01:16:28.800
We can share.

1640
01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:30.000
You can have Stormageddon.

1641
01:16:30.180 --> 01:16:33.359
You can have the slippers and I'll have the dressing gown.

1642
01:16:33.420 --> 01:16:35.460
We can both cosplay her.

1643
01:16:35.460 --> 01:16:39.300
And otherwise as an umbrella, it's the discovery of Saul, Mr

1644
01:16:39.300 --> 01:16:39.960
Metstein.

1645
01:16:40.020 --> 01:16:40.859
Just delightful.

1646
01:16:40.920 --> 01:16:42.960
Yeah, we've got a big episode to direct.

1647
01:16:43.020 --> 01:16:43.920
Better call Saul.

1648
01:16:44.100 --> 01:16:45.899
Boom Tish.

1649
01:16:45.960 --> 01:16:47.279
Yeah, Caitlin.

1650
01:16:47.340 --> 01:16:51.000
Like if she hadn't worked at the beginning of that episode. then

1651
01:16:51.000 --> 01:16:56.399
and obviously matters well, but I wanted the moment that it goes

1652
01:16:56.399 --> 01:17:01.439
from young Amelia to Amy, I just went, oh, I did.

1653
01:17:01.439 --> 01:17:02.579
I did that as well at the time.

1654
01:17:02.699 --> 01:17:03.659
I did at the time.

1655
01:17:03.720 --> 01:17:06.359
I just thought, I want that character.

1656
01:17:06.420 --> 01:17:07.859
This is not what I'm getting.

1657
01:17:07.920 --> 01:17:12.779
Anyway, that's my one moment in that 11th hour, but anyway.

1658
01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:14.520
That's for history.

1659
01:17:14.579 --> 01:17:16.380
You see Amy all the way through, don't you?

1660
01:17:16.439 --> 01:17:20.039
See young Amy, Karen Gill and Amy, old Amy, and the girl who

1661
01:17:20.039 --> 01:17:23.520
waited, and then the horrible vision of future with Grandma Etta.

1662
01:17:25.199 --> 01:17:27.300
That will be coming round for you.

1663
01:17:29.100 --> 01:17:30.840
Moving forward.

1664
01:17:30.899 --> 01:17:35.939
Series 8 Thoughts, expectations, discoveries, where does it sit

1665
01:17:35.939 --> 01:17:38.579
with you as we embark on this next journey?

1666
01:17:40.140 --> 01:17:49.680
I think series 8 is Moffat's most RTD style series and it does

1667
01:17:49.680 --> 01:17:54.479
start to create a world for Jenna to inhabit, like it starts to

1668
01:17:54.479 --> 01:17:57.239
kind of do something about her character.

1669
01:17:57.300 --> 01:18:01.800
I also think that Moffatt ups his game a bit because he's got

1670
01:18:01.800 --> 01:18:06.899
Capoldi and he doesn't want to embarrass himself or Capoldi after

1671
01:18:06.899 --> 01:18:10.020
you know, actually getting him, which I think was a bit of a coup

1672
01:18:10.020 --> 01:18:13.560
even though he's the most tragic fanboy in human history.

1673
01:18:15.359 --> 01:18:17.220
Yeah, that's right.

1674
01:18:17.279 --> 01:18:21.239
It's episode 253 of flight through entirety.

1675
01:18:22.500 --> 01:18:24.899
So I'm looking forward to it.

1676
01:18:24.960 --> 01:18:26.279
I think it's going to be really interesting.

1677
01:18:26.340 --> 01:18:29.159
I am less certain about series nine.

1678
01:18:29.220 --> 01:18:31.020
I'm actually looking forward to going back and looking at that

1679
01:18:31.020 --> 01:18:34.020
again because I haven't been back there and so I don't really know

1680
01:18:34.020 --> 01:18:34.859
what I think of it.

1681
01:18:34.920 --> 01:18:38.279
I think series 8 is going to be better than I think it is, and I

1682
01:18:38.279 --> 01:18:38.880
think it's pretty good.

1683
01:18:40.079 --> 01:18:47.520
I'm with you in that I think series 8 is a bit criminally

1684
01:18:47.520 --> 01:18:51.000
underlooked by others, maybe because of a few faults that sort of

1685
01:18:51.000 --> 01:18:56.579
beacon out or glare out, but I actually think that it's actually

1686
01:18:56.579 --> 01:18:57.720
pretty solid.

1687
01:18:57.840 --> 01:19:00.899
There's some missteps, but I think it's terribly underrated.

1688
01:19:00.899 --> 01:19:04.979
I'm just looking forward to seeing what those missteps are and

1689
01:19:04.979 --> 01:19:08.520
also what they're doing with the character of the doctor, which I

1690
01:19:08.520 --> 01:19:11.579
didn't sit well with me at the time, even though I actually quite

1691
01:19:11.579 --> 01:19:14.819
like the final journey, but that's for another time.

1692
01:19:14.880 --> 01:19:17.640
So seriously, it's going to be really interesting. absolutely

1693
01:19:17.640 --> 01:19:22.380
everything you've said, yeah, but I'm be curious to see how he can

1694
01:19:22.380 --> 01:19:23.579
top this.

1695
01:19:23.640 --> 01:19:27.960
And by topping, I just mean vary from it because there's so many

1696
01:19:27.960 --> 01:19:32.399
wildly cearing, not always successful, but certainly sitting on

1697
01:19:32.399 --> 01:19:34.560
that roller coaster is not doll.

1698
01:19:34.619 --> 01:19:38.640
So, sorry, journey to the TARDIS, but you know, I sort of, that

1699
01:19:38.640 --> 01:19:39.779
was a bathroom break for me.

1700
01:19:39.840 --> 01:19:44.520
But otherwise, yeah, I'm really interested to see, and again, I

1701
01:19:44.520 --> 01:19:45.779
haven't watched it since it was shown.

1702
01:19:45.840 --> 01:19:49.079
So how that's going to flow for us all.

1703
01:19:49.140 --> 01:19:50.760
Very excited about Capaldi.

1704
01:19:50.819 --> 01:19:54.659
Do you remember the bars of, Oh, thank goodness, it's him.

1705
01:19:54.720 --> 01:19:57.060
Yeah. when the announcement came through.

1706
01:19:57.119 --> 01:20:00.960
Did you feel like that, Todd, when you heard Capaldi's announced?

1707
01:20:01.020 --> 01:20:02.460
Yeah, bit of a shrug from my end.

1708
01:20:02.520 --> 01:20:04.800
No, I just spent...

1709
01:20:04.859 --> 01:20:08.579
I just didn't, it was sort of like, it was expected to be him.

1710
01:20:08.640 --> 01:20:09.779
Was it?

1711
01:20:09.779 --> 01:20:11.819
That's what I felt in the days later.

1712
01:20:11.819 --> 01:20:13.140
It was sort of like that was the name.

1713
01:20:13.199 --> 01:20:15.659
And so then it was like, oh, okay.

1714
01:20:15.720 --> 01:20:17.279
Thank goodness it is.

1715
01:20:17.340 --> 01:20:20.159
Like, I was a big fan of the thick of it.

1716
01:20:20.220 --> 01:20:22.560
I was definitely into...

1717
01:20:22.560 --> 01:20:24.420
Yeah, absolutely right.

1718
01:20:24.479 --> 01:20:26.039
All right, my final question.

1719
01:20:26.100 --> 01:20:27.960
Snog, Mario, void.

1720
01:20:28.020 --> 01:20:29.579
Matt Smith.

1721
01:20:29.640 --> 01:20:32.640
John Hurt, David Tennant.

1722
01:20:32.699 --> 01:20:36.600
Um, I'm gonna snog Matt Smith.

1723
01:20:36.659 --> 01:20:38.880
I am definitely going to marry John Hurt.

1724
01:20:38.939 --> 01:20:39.840
Yeah.

1725
01:20:39.899 --> 01:20:44.340
Um, but we'll avoid takeaway Chinese food, obviously.

1726
01:20:44.399 --> 01:20:48.420
And I'm going to avoid David Tennant. the teeth.

1727
01:20:49.619 --> 01:20:51.960
Yeah, I'll avoid all of them.

1728
01:20:52.020 --> 01:20:53.699
My heart still belongs to John Pertway.

1729
01:20:53.760 --> 01:20:57.720
I couldn't agree more, although Sean's pretty good runner up these

1730
01:20:57.720 --> 01:20:57.960
days.

1731
01:20:58.680 --> 01:21:01.560
I like David Tennant.

1732
01:21:01.619 --> 01:21:05.579
I going out on a limb here less and less with every passing year

1733
01:21:05.579 --> 01:21:08.460
and yet I was delighted to see him at the end of the season we've

1734
01:21:08.460 --> 01:21:12.840
just seen in his motley crew mix-up, little suit, doing his teeth

1735
01:21:12.840 --> 01:21:13.260
thing.

1736
01:21:13.319 --> 01:21:15.060
He really can carry the energy.

1737
01:21:15.119 --> 01:21:19.800
He's completely convincing as a doctor by to find him so actively

1738
01:21:19.800 --> 01:21:24.060
in what he does in a way that totally different that I found Matt

1739
01:21:24.060 --> 01:21:28.680
completely natural, slightly panicked, a very perfect.

1740
01:21:28.739 --> 01:21:30.479
He is the perfect era.

1741
01:21:30.539 --> 01:21:31.979
Well, I marry Matt.

1742
01:21:32.039 --> 01:21:34.439
I've also seen Matt naked in several interviews, in several

1743
01:21:34.439 --> 01:21:37.920
interviews in several, that, no, that's in my head in several

1744
01:21:37.920 --> 01:21:41.159
photos and I'm perfectly happy to have a long term with Matt

1745
01:21:41.159 --> 01:21:42.420
following that.

1746
01:21:42.479 --> 01:21:45.180
And also he really knows how to kick balls.

1747
01:21:45.899 --> 01:21:51.420
So after that, sportingly, who are we avoiding?

1748
01:21:51.479 --> 01:21:55.079
John Hurt would be a lot of fun to hang out with as well.

1749
01:21:55.260 --> 01:21:56.159
It's funny, isn't it?

1750
01:21:56.220 --> 01:21:59.220
Because David Tennant is the acme of what I think the general

1751
01:21:59.220 --> 01:22:04.560
public see the doctor as and like Peter Poggy may be for fans, what

1752
01:22:04.560 --> 01:22:04.979
they say.

1753
01:22:05.039 --> 01:22:07.079
And Matt Smith somehow manages to be both.

1754
01:22:07.140 --> 01:22:08.460
Exactly right.

1755
01:22:34.020 --> 01:22:37.500
Well, there, sir, that's all we have time for now.

1756
01:22:37.619 --> 01:22:40.859
We'll be back later in the year to group the mighty eyebrows of

1757
01:22:40.859 --> 01:22:43.859
Peter Capaldi in our coverage of Series 8.

1758
01:22:44.100 --> 01:22:47.760
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1759
01:22:47.760 --> 01:22:50.640
and you can keep up with us at flights for entirety on Facebook, at

1760
01:22:50.640 --> 01:22:54.659
FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, flightthroughentirety

1761
01:22:53.220 --> 01:22:57.600
com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger

1762
01:22:57.600 --> 01:23:01.800
Jody interterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek Project.

1763
01:23:02.159 --> 01:23:06.779
Until next time, we'll always remember when the doctor was Matt.

1764
01:23:06.840 --> 01:23:09.000
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1765
01:23:09.060 --> 01:23:11.399
See you soon Raggedy man, good night.

1766
01:23:11.460 --> 01:23:14.100
And happy bond fingering, if you so choose.

1767
01:23:20.159 --> 01:23:23.100
That was Flight to Entirety, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan

1768
01:23:23.100 --> 01:23:25.140
Bottomley, Peter Griffith, and Richard Stone.

1769
01:23:25.199 --> 01:23:27.539
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lowe.

1770
01:23:27.600 --> 01:23:31.500
This episode, comedy to high drama, was recorded on the 12th of

1771
01:23:31.500 --> 01:23:35.100
December 2022 and released on New Year's Day, 2023.

1772
01:23:38.220 --> 01:23:41.039
We're taking some time off now to start work on our coverage of

1773
01:23:41.039 --> 01:23:44.640
the Capoli era, and we'll be back in your podcatcher in April.

1774
01:23:44.699 --> 01:23:49.199
But let's remember, the real podcast was always the friends we

1775
01:23:49.199 --> 01:23:50.460
made along the way.

1776
01:23:50.520 --> 01:23:51.119
See you soon.

1777
01:23:54.720 --> 01:24:00.300
Let's move on to, well, actually, before we move on, Matt's

1778
01:24:00.300 --> 01:24:04.979
costume does change, this season from Raggedy Man in towards the

1779
01:24:04.979 --> 01:24:07.380
end of this season, is it closing time or is it before then that

1780
01:24:07.380 --> 01:24:07.739
it changes?

1781
01:24:07.859 --> 01:24:11.340
No, no, it actually changes halfway through series seven.

1782
01:24:11.399 --> 01:24:13.079
No, he means the big brown coast and everything.

1783
01:24:13.140 --> 01:24:14.100
The big green coat.

1784
01:24:14.220 --> 01:24:16.140
Yeah, he puts on one of those.

1785
01:24:16.439 --> 01:24:20.159
They used to be able to buy them in the 80s at op shops that were

1786
01:24:20.159 --> 01:24:20.640
German.

1787
01:24:20.939 --> 01:24:22.319
No, let's okay, uniform coat.

1788
01:24:22.380 --> 01:24:22.979
Let's scrub that.

1789
01:24:23.039 --> 01:24:24.899
I'll talk about Matt's outfit.

1790
01:24:25.319 --> 01:24:29.399
All I would say is I like the costume change because again, they're

1791
01:24:29.399 --> 01:24:32.460
doing things that young fans could actually go to an op shop and

1792
01:24:32.460 --> 01:24:32.819
buy.

1793
01:24:32.819 --> 01:24:38.220
And those cavalry coats were around, you know, back in the 90s in

1794
01:24:38.220 --> 01:24:40.079
gray and that colour green.

1795
01:24:40.140 --> 01:24:44.460
So whoever was costuming for this one, I don't recall who that was

1796
01:24:44.460 --> 01:24:47.699
but I like that sense of the kids can actually do this.

1797
01:24:47.760 --> 01:24:50.939
It really, really works nicely in the same way that Tom's one

1798
01:24:50.939 --> 01:24:51.300
did.

1799
01:24:51.359 --> 01:24:55.500
It brings an immediacy to the audience and lets them be the doctor

1800
01:24:55.500 --> 01:24:56.520
in a lovely way.

1801
01:24:56.579 --> 01:24:59.100
Well, you can get question mark pullovers at any op shop.

1802
01:25:02.159 --> 01:25:02.579
All right.

1803
01:25:02.640 --> 01:25:04.680
Thanks for the sympathy laugh, Nathan.

1804
01:25:04.800 --> 01:25:06.779
That got a side.

1805
01:25:06.840 --> 01:25:10.079
That was to go into a, it's a, uh, now we're just putting

1806
01:25:10.079 --> 01:25:11.100
interstitial in there.

1807
01:25:11.159 --> 01:25:12.420
I've got a sigh.

1808
01:25:12.479 --> 01:25:14.279
They got a sigh of memory there, didn't it?

1809
01:25:14.340 --> 01:25:14.699
Yeah.

1810
01:25:17.760 --> 01:25:20.159
Okay, series, let's go to series seven.

1811
01:25:20.220 --> 01:25:22.800
Where do we sit with everything now?

1812
01:25:22.859 --> 01:25:23.699
How do we feel about it?