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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:33:22

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that's like flirting with a mountain range, ambitious but not particularly productive.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Peter.

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And I'm really looking forward to the return of Karen Ford for the end of this one for this one.

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Well, we've been watching Matt Smith's doctor for 4 years now from his 1st adventure on Earth with the Atraxi to his last adventure on Trezilore with literally everyone he's ever met.

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We've laughed, we've cried, and we've done the giraffe dance at Amy's wedding, but have we learned anything?

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Let's find out as we embark on our Matt Smith retrospective.

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It's time for Snog marry avoid.

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Five, six, seven.

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I have to get my chapstick for this one.

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I mean, I think you would have to marry season 5 because you could just watch it over and over.

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It's really great.

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You'd probably avoid series 6 because it's problematic in the arc and you never want long-term problems.

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Series 7.

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Well, okay, I could snog series 7 or bits of like, it's not a town called Mercy.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Definitely.

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Ben Browner in a town called Mercy.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So I would have a different answer from this.

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I would snog series six.

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I would definitely marry a series 5 because I think it's a thing of beauty.

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Sorry, I got there.

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Series 6 is sort of problematic, I think, but it's interesting.

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Whereas series 7, I think, is just a bit dull. isn't that what marriage is?

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So I'm told.

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Richard.

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Oh, it's it's all a post-COVID hangover blur, but that's just because we're here on a Sunday.

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There were so many gorgeous moments.

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I think I'd probably just keep them all on an app and just dip into each and every one of them as I so pleased because I'm not really up for long terms.

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With this lot anymore.

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No, that's a good and fair question, and I'd have to look at it overall.

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What do we end up going back to and watching since 2005.

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It is this period.

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It is, you might say Stephen Moffatt's 1st few years.

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Or you might just call it Matt's time, but they are the ones I go back to.

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So yeah, I think I'd have a clandestine affair with each and every one of them and not tell the other two.

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Well thank you.

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I agree with you Peter.

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I'm definitely on the series 5 bandwagon and avoiding series 6 at all.

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Well, not at all costs, but I think there's things in there that just I don't connect with.

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So yeah, no, there we go.

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Well, this is the Matt Smith retrospective.

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So let's talk about Matt.

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What's his legacy?

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What do you take away now that it's been, how long has it been?

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Over 10 years since he was the doctor?

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Gosh.

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He is the only other doctor since John Pertway who I was bereft when he left.

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I wanted him to stay.

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I wanted another season.

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I didn't think we'd seen all that he could give, and I just think it was a tragedy, that he didn't do another year.

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I think at the moment, and I'm just starting the Capoldi era now in preparation for our coverage of that on the podcast, I still think that he is the best portrayal of the doctor in the show's history, including the classic series.

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I think he gets it absolutely rise.

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And people don't.

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I think some people don't properly appreciate how unpleasant a character he is, that he is actually a kind of bad guy, like Moffatt's other doctor.

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And I think that I want that from the doctor.

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I want that sort of Tom in horror fang rock, doctor, who is slightly unpleasant.

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There's a facade of geniality and kind of silliness to this doctor, but there's a real kind of steel to him as well.

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And, you know, comparing him to David Tennant when they're doing angry acting, for instance.

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I think Matt can be properly terrifying in a way that Tennant never actually seems to manage.

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So he's my favourite, I think.

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It may be splitting hairs slightly, but I don't think Matt is the strongest performer to ever played the doctor.

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I agree with that.

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Maybe David Tennant and Peter Capaldi are on balance better and more varied actors, but Matt delivers something in the role, which neither of them quite reach.

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It's just a role that was made for him, I think.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I think there's a distinction between actor and performer, isn't there?

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Like, Tom might be the greatest performer in the role.

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I would say he is actually.

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Yeah, or maybe Pat.

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But Pat's also an actor.

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Pete is an actor more than a performer.

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Tom lives it.

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Yeah, that's why young people were and still are actually drawn into his performance.

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Yeah.

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Well, I mentioned per wee earlier. we know will make great claims for as an actor, but he's a consummate performer. brings the doctor to life.

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And you could see the care and subtlety and conviction.

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He really loved this part.

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And you could say that actually for pretty much all of them.

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They all took it very seriously and their duty of care, you might say, to not just do the work.

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Actually, to the audience.

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Um, you hear that Tom's saying he, I played it to children, but I think he played it to university students and that's why the humour worked both ways because young people, you know, are always aspirant to their older brothers and sisters who are, you know, they want to be part of that humour, older people have that sense of nostalgia for when they still had hope and joy.

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And therefore, you know, and Red Douglas Adams with, um, without the conviction that he was a perfect seer and all of this is actually happening.

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So, you know, there's that sense of fun.

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Billy, I keep going back to for the freshness and uniqueness and the power, just the anger of him is joyful and Capaldi carries that.

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But I think the only one who actually lived the part and I couldn't see they were acting was Billy and Tom because they're both a bit bags of nuts.

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I think the fact that it's quite warming, the fact that David Tennant and Peter Capaldi were both fans, and so they knew what they were taking on, whereas Matt came into it fresh.

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He didn't really know anything until he sat down and watched Tomb of the Cybermen. which Moth had lent him.

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And the fact that he became such a good custodian of the flame, and sort of became a great ambassador for the show and became someone who clearly loved the show, counted for a lot, I think.

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Yeah, Tennant has a very sort of self-conscious desire to be the doctor, which is, I think, why his doctor is so, so good because he knows what works in the role.

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And I think that Matt doesn't have that.

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Matt isn't aware of what works when you're the doctor.

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And so he just does really strange, interesting things with the role.

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I get the sense that Matt, I don't know.

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How was the rehearsal period working for them by this period compared to, you know, was it the same amount of rehearsal for episodes that they had under Russell that they have now?

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I mean, I think you do get rehearsed record.

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They may have a day where they sort of rehearse with a new lead, you know, a new co-lead or whatever.

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Although we know that Matt never did it filmically and never gave the same performance twice on the take.

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Remember, there were all those stories coming out from the production of series 5 before he'd been seen on television over how his performance was erratic and maybe wasn't quite there.

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But of course, we realised from watching it, that was just him sorting out what would land and what would work.

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And of course, it's magic on screen.

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Yeah, I mean, we said that his 1st day where he's shooting the Angels 2 partter in series 5.

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The beach with River and Amy.

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He's perfect. like absolutely perfect.

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We don't get any sort of weird 4 to doomsday performance full of things that never end up being part of the sort of long term role.

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If Doctor Who were the tarot card deck.

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And in many ways it is. he is the holy fool and he leaps in and I love that that's at the foot of a cliff face because that's his performance.

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He really does.

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And I see in the flapping of the arms, you're winging this.

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You haven't worked out what you're doing.

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You're doing it right now and that's where the energy is coming from.

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Yeah, your arms hard enough. anyone will wing it.

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Oh, I thought of Nicola with all the feathers and the allergies, poor thing.

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But yeah, that kind of panic will draw an audience in because it's such a visceral thing, observing performance and has no time dilation scale to it.

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Oh, such a Doctor Who thing to say.

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So, you know, it can be recorded, it can be 20 years ago.

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It can be 60 years ago.

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The audience will respond as if it's theatre and we're in the room because we're committed to the performances.

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Has anyone watched sex education recently, again?

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No, not since the announcement, actually.

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I graduated a long time ago.

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Yeah, ooh.

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Oh, it's great.

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And I wasn't going to.

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I thought, no, I want to see what shoot he does.

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And the 1st 2 episodes, there's that matte quality, and I can see now what Russell, I'm sure he's done many other interesting things, but I can see why Russell has said, yes, you.

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Shooty just has that gorgeous manic.

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I'm still in control.

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You're not.

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You're making it up, and it could go either way, and there's that tightrope tension that really, really works.

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Tom had that as well.

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And Billy definitely had it when he was, especially as he was getting older, and those moments with Peter Purvis, where he was being supported, or it's just like, oh, you're really panicking, and it's so interesting to watch.

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Matt is such a natural in the role.

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And I think that story that Stephen tells of him being the only one, he basically left the audition room and they all looked at each other and went, obviously, it's him.

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He was in the 1st six, wasn't he?

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The 1st like the really early.

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He was third, I think, is what they say.

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He was the 3rd person.

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And then Moffatt and Piers Wanger left the room and had a dream.

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No, like I said, and said, well, we can't take Miriam Margolis because, you know, she'll eat.

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Don't mix up your executive producers.

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Wow.

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Please keep that in.

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Please.

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Yeah, I mean, he was the 3rd and they just immediately said, we need to.

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I think the story goes, we need to snap him up because if we don't, someone else will snap him up and he'll become a big star.

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I think it's what Pierce Fenger said.

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And Moffin said, well, let's prevent him from becoming...

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That's a very Stephen Thing to say, yeah.

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Look, I agree with you.

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I agree with you, Peter.

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I think there is this quality to math that's just so natural.

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And I think in series 5, there's just this energy before you see him on screen before he sees himself on screen.

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That is different from 6 and seven, I do think.

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But I mean, that's like any any doctor, you know, once it's out there and feedback is given and they see that, you know, there is slight changes.

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But that boyish energy and charm of series 5, I don't think, has ever been repeated in the entire run of the new series.

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And I think it really sets him up for his whole run.

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Season 5 is quite an innocent performance, isn't it?

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Whereas I think after that, when he's seen himself on screen, when he's seen how popular he is with the general public, it becomes, in not a bad sense, a more calculated performance, but he's good all the way through.

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I think the writers have seen him too.

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That's the other thing.

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Yes, that's right.

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And we said he hits the ground running in Time of Angels, which was he shot first, but let's also pay tribute to Steven's writing because he gives him all of the material that he needs in that episode.

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He runs the entire gamut from comedy to high drama.

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And in those 1st scenes.

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He's also acting opposite River song.

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Alex Kingston.

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And I think that was a perfect scene partner to start off with.

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Yes, I mean, you can't tell that it's his 1st filming at all.

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I think, you know, it's just slots in so effortlessly into that entire run.

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And I think having Alex Kingston there for him to go against.

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It just sets the tone for what's to come.

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I also think he successfully does old in a way that Tennant and Eggleston probably don't, and it's something that they really want to emphasise in the new series, and Matt has that big old face, big old boat race.

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And he's very still, and even though he's, you know, barely got a line on his face, he's like 27 or something, he really conveys the kind of gravity of how old the doctor is.

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I think that's amazing.

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It's that dichotomy.

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Sorry, just Stephen Moffatt said at the time.

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I just remembering, he said, Matt walked in and was a cheeky schoolboy and a wise old man of the universe at exactly the same and you need to be able to play young and old simultaneously.

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Many actors find that difficult to achieve.

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And so that was it.

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We knew instantly.

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I think that Moffatt said in DWM that he was like an old man in the body of an underwear model.

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He also said he's ew, by the way.

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I think I've seen that video.

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No, it's...

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Yes, thank you, Todd.

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We all had our finger on that.

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One of our listeners, DJ Alpha T, asked, do you think Matt left at the right time, and to paraphrase what he always had to say?

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Would another year be drawn out or allow Moffat to wrap up storylines, not the rush job in time with the doctor?

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Interesting.

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I take issue with the premise of the question.

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Time of the doctor's amazing.

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I think, too, that the rush job in time of the doctor was always what he was going to do.

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I mean, those sort of long-term arcs basically can be dealt with in a line of dialogue.

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So Moffatt uses time of the doctor to make that point in a way those things work as they're happening, but they never really work when they're solved.

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And it was all sort of there already, wasn't it?

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I mean, we knew that Madame Cavarian was going to stop the doctor and that the church was going to stop the doctor.

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None of those revelations were new.

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They just explicitly said what we'd kind of worked out.

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So I don't think we do a rush job in time of the doctor.

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I would have liked more, Matt, and you can see that he was sort of setting things up for there to be more, Matt.

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And so, you know, we go straight to trends law immediately after day of the doctor.

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But I don't think it matters and and we've got Capaldi in series 8 and he's pretty great.

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I don't think there's any doctor who I've said, I'm glad that, well, maybe one who I've said.

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I'm glad they're gone and I wouldn't like another season with them, but with Matt, it's particularly acute.

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It just felt like he had so much more to give.

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And he's in the prime of his life and the prime of his acting life and we sort of lost him a little bit too early, I think.

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Do you know, I saw Morbius in the last couple of days.

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00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:40.379
Really?

212
00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:41.639
Did you push him over a cliff?

213
00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:46.080
Not afraid of Morbius, but the terrible film that Matt's in.

214
00:16:46.379 --> 00:16:51.659
You know, I've seen that and it took me those seconds to remember what the hell that was because it's so exactly what you're saying.

215
00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:53.279
Yeah, thank you.

216
00:16:53.340 --> 00:16:54.419
I don't want to cut you off.

217
00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:55.080
Well, I just did.

218
00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:56.820
Sorry, it's much like this podcast.

219
00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:04.019
I feel there could have been a whole other arc and a whole other other character exploration and perhaps a dark side doctor.

220
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.000
So I think we were all thinking exactly the same thing.

221
00:17:06.059 --> 00:17:17.819
Well, I mean, the thing is that he's not had a stellar film career after being the doctor, but he's had a pretty seriously worthwhile TV career, hasn't he?

222
00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:22.740
With the crown, which at the time was, you know, the most expensive TV show ever made.

223
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:25.799
And there's no true distinction between TV and film these days.

224
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:27.779
No, that's right. prestigious.

225
00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:28.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

226
00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:34.019
And Game of Thrones, where apparently he's very good, even though I will never watch it.

227
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:35.579
Right.

228
00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.519
It's got Diana Riga, apparently.

229
00:17:38.579 --> 00:17:39.359
Yeah, no it does.

230
00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:40.380
Why won't you watch?

231
00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:41.579
Why won't you watch?

232
00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:44.039
Well, it's just too violent, non-pleasant for me.

233
00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:46.380
I thought you were going to say it's too long and too long.

234
00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:48.059
And there are no robots in it.

235
00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:49.619
I've got a nod to Doctor Who there.

236
00:17:49.680 --> 00:18:00.480
No, I want to say darker doctor, I mean, perhaps, you know, an alt universe, valeyard type doctor, but just really let him stretch because I'm really agreeing with what Peter's saying is that we didn't see enough.

237
00:18:00.539 --> 00:18:01.980
It is the thing.

238
00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:05.339
You know, they always say at Trout and said it always leave them wanting more.

239
00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:07.380
It's the old theatre adage.

240
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:08.220
Yeah, I get that.

241
00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:10.680
I don't think it would have felt stale.

242
00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:22.500
I don't know that it might, actually, and no unfairness to Jenna Louise, but I don't know that that would have worked as a single pairing for a whole other year.

243
00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:26.880
There could have maybe a bit of a play or let it go home, have someone else come in, that kind of thing.

244
00:18:26.940 --> 00:18:30.000
But no, there were definitely new ideas.

245
00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:38.940
And you can see, perhaps, preceding what Stephen Moffatt was going to do in the next few years that no, there were definitely ideas to explore.

246
00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:44.039
I just want, I really just want Matt and Missy up against each other.

247
00:18:44.099 --> 00:18:48.059
I think Missy is designed to be with Capaldi.

248
00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:50.700
Yeah, because they're both horribly Scottish.

249
00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:51.779
Yes, exactly.

250
00:18:51.900 --> 00:19:03.299
But having said that, I think if he'd continued and gone with the missy line, they may not have cast Michelle in that role. somebody more.

251
00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:07.200
Well, they may have because he works very well with actresses who are older than him, you know?

252
00:19:07.259 --> 00:19:09.359
If we look at Tasha Lamb.

253
00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:10.619
Olivia Coleman.

254
00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:14.339
Olivia Coleman, Madame Vastra, and of course, River Song, you know.

255
00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:21.420
And of course, Helen McCrory in Vampires of Venice, which I think is a stunning performance.

256
00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:27.240
The 2 of them together in that one scene is one of the best performances, I think Matt gives.

257
00:19:27.299 --> 00:19:28.799
Have you seen her in anything else?

258
00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:40.920
She plays Sherry Blair in something. opposite, you know, Sheen, who is required by law to play Tony Blair and everything.

259
00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:42.900
Is it the Helen Mirner film?

260
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:44.039
Yeah, maybe it's the Queen.

261
00:19:44.099 --> 00:19:45.119
Maybe she's in the hair?

262
00:19:45.180 --> 00:19:46.740
Todd's got lots of questions.

263
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:59.039
I would just finish off with, when you put him against someone of genuine BAFTA, British heritage, royalty, such as Ms. McCrory.

264
00:19:59.099 --> 00:20:01.440
Oh my goodness, he blows the camera out.

265
00:20:01.500 --> 00:20:03.420
It's just beautiful to us.

266
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:04.980
You see it early on in the beast below.

267
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.019
She's the bloody queen, mate. those scenes sing.

268
00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:08.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

269
00:20:08.460 --> 00:20:11.160
I think he could have done another year.

270
00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:16.019
It would have been interesting to see what they would have done with Clara with him.

271
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:17.400
Would they have gone down the road?

272
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:19.619
They go in series 8.

273
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:25.140
But him leaving at that time, you know, it is what it is and it does leave you wanting more and I'm okay with that too.

274
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:40.559
Let's turn our tide back to series 5, and as we sit with it now, our thoughts on that series.

275
00:20:40.619 --> 00:20:45.660
Karen and Arthur and Matt and the themes in there.

276
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:52.799
I think it vies with series 4 for the title of best new series series.

277
00:20:52.980 --> 00:20:55.440
It is really, really good.

278
00:20:55.500 --> 00:21:13.859
And it's absolutely, It's that thing, you know, it's like series one. where it's everything that everyone has been intending to do with Doctor Who for decades and let's just do this thing and it works incredibly well.

279
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:22.740
And Moffatt has clearly been, you know, thinking what would I do if ever I became Doctor Who Showrunner since he was about 12.

280
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:37.980
And he has this thing, the fairy tale thing, the thing about childhood and adulthood, the thing about men being like children, all of that sort of stuff about maturity and also the stuff about storytelling.

281
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:39.180
And so it's perfect.

282
00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:41.759
It's a beautiful polished thing.

283
00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:45.839
And we were talking about deep breath just before we recorded.

284
00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:48.000
I've cleaned my teeth home slowly.

285
00:21:48.359 --> 00:22:03.000
And you made the point, Todd, that its biggest flaw is that it's not the 11th hour and it's because the 11th hour is a perfect thing in the same way that a Christmas carol is a perfect thing.

286
00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:07.799
These are beautifully, cleverly plotted, well-written, well-offed.

287
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:09.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

288
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:10.079
Look.

289
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:14.400
And so series 5 is that, I think.

290
00:22:14.460 --> 00:22:20.759
Series 5 has its floors, but it is a great series of Doctor Who.

291
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:22.380
And it's brilliant where it needs to be.

292
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:23.579
It starts out well.

293
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:25.440
It ends brilliantly with Pandorica.

294
00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:32.160
It's got a great Christmas episode tagged on the end, and it's also got that crucial two-parter in the middle, which is really amazing.

295
00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:35.880
So what you take away from the season is structurally, it's really strong.

296
00:22:35.940 --> 00:22:36.779
Yeah.

297
00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:51.779
And it does the thing too, where we've had space arcs in series one to 4 and this arc is entirely about Amy and whether she is going to accept adulthood or cling on to her childhood.

298
00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:59.940
And so that's thematically really strong and particularly if you're a 50 year old watching a TV show intended for kind of 10 year olds.

299
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.819
That's a very urgent theme, I think.

300
00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:04.799
For all of us.

301
00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:10.619
Every modern doctor under RTD and Moffat has one season where it all comes together.

302
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:14.880
Unfortunately for Eccleston, it was his one and only season, which all came together.

303
00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:16.559
But Tennant has series 4.

304
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:18.240
Capaldi has series 10.

305
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:22.680
Matt, in a slight reverse or his 1st season is the one where it all comes together.

306
00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:26.220
And it's just, it's perfect piece of television, isn't it?

307
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:28.500
I actually think series 8 is strong.

308
00:23:28.619 --> 00:23:29.759
I mean, that's going off top.

309
00:23:29.819 --> 00:23:30.359
It's pretty good.

310
00:23:30.420 --> 00:23:38.759
I mean, there's other seasons which are pretty good and in some cases excellent, but just their best seasons coalesce and series 5 is an example of that.

311
00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:43.079
So from this season, what's one to watch?

312
00:23:43.140 --> 00:23:44.880
If you had to recommend one.

313
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:46.440
Victory of the Daleks.

314
00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:48.720
I'd love it.

315
00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:49.619
Okay.

316
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:54.539
One to watch, one to avoid, and one that flies under the radar.

317
00:23:54.839 --> 00:23:57.299
Can I choose 2 parters for those?

318
00:23:57.359 --> 00:23:58.200
Whatever.

319
00:23:58.259 --> 00:24:01.380
So I think the Angels 2 parter is one to watch.

320
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:02.220
Phenomenal.

321
00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:03.000
So good.

322
00:24:03.059 --> 00:24:03.900
So great.

323
00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:05.220
And a brilliant cliffhanger.

324
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:08.940
I think the Silurians 2 parter is one to avoid.

325
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:14.460
How prescient.

326
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:17.759
Yeah, no, it's terrible.

327
00:24:17.819 --> 00:24:21.180
And I think that the beast below is massively underrated.

328
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:22.140
Oh, interesting.

329
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:23.700
Nice choice.

330
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:27.480
Yeah, no one can disagree with that, except I think the lodger is massively underrated.

331
00:24:27.539 --> 00:24:28.680
Yeah it's very good too.

332
00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:30.119
I agree.

333
00:24:30.180 --> 00:24:34.619
I also think vampires of Venice gets overlooked a lot.

334
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:35.940
It really does, doesn't it?

335
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.640
That was going to be my overlooked because of Miss McCrory.

336
00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:38.940
Yeah.

337
00:24:38.940 --> 00:24:45.900
And even Amy's choice, which I really like, I think, is overlooked too. like with the...

338
00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:48.900
It's very cleverly timed and played out, isn't it?

339
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:50.160
very subtle.

340
00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:52.500
It's very funny as well.

341
00:24:52.559 --> 00:25:01.500
I think that that was the thing that I realised as we went through it this time, I'd never realised just it's written by a sitcom writer. you know, it's Simon Nye.

342
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:04.140
It is incredibly cleverly written.

343
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:16.980
And it's a very knowing, not with a claw hammer against the kneecaps to every sitcom about older folk in older homes doing older things together.

344
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:18.779
Yes, push them off the roof.

345
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.079
I think if they could have got Penelope Keith, they would have done it to her.

346
00:25:22.619 --> 00:25:25.140
That was a misquote of the mutants.

347
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:27.660
They're all old people doing old things all together.

348
00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:31.980
Ouch. much like this podcast.

349
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:36.660
All right, let's jump to series six.

350
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:39.119
Where do you stand with series 6?

351
00:25:39.180 --> 00:25:41.279
Themes, thoughts.

352
00:25:41.339 --> 00:25:53.220
I think that it does have the problems that we identified, I think it tries to go places that the show can't successfully go, that it just doesn't have the weight to deal with.

353
00:25:53.279 --> 00:26:00.480
And I can see what Moffat's going for, but I don't think it quite comes off.

354
00:26:00.539 --> 00:26:17.279
In spite of that, though, I like the arc, and I like the continuing sort of thing with the doctor that he is a problem that he doesn't tell the truth, that he isn't honest with his companions, and that he puts some through things for that reason.

355
00:26:17.339 --> 00:26:19.380
So you've got a problematic doctor.

356
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:36.539
You know, who invites everyone to watch him get shot dead by Lake Silencio, who doesn't tell Amy that he's concerned about her pregnancy, who doesn't tell Amy and Rory while we're going to the monastery acid mine thing doesn't say why we're doing that.

357
00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:40.740
And all of that stuff is kind of what I want from the doctor.

358
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:46.619
I think the end is much better than I remember it being, I think the initial 2 parter is very good.

359
00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:48.299
I think it's got a lot going for it.

360
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:50.940
I agree with some of those comments.

361
00:26:51.000 --> 00:27:11.519
Yeah, no, I like the 1st 2 parter, and on our rewatch, I certainly think the wedding of River Song is a good conclusion, and you pointed out how it's the reverse structure from the previous year, and I have problems with a number of episodes throughout the season, but I do appreciate it a lot more Goo babies aside.

362
00:27:11.579 --> 00:27:12.779
Yeah, Peter.

363
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:19.859
I think it suffers to an extent from living in the shadow of series five, but I like the fact that it's trying different things.

364
00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:28.680
What I said structurally about series 5 is kind of the reverse here in that you've got really good episodes, but they're not the arc episodes in this season.

365
00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:39.720
You've got episodes like the doctor's wife and the girl who waited, and specifically the god complex, and they, for me, are the highlights, whereas it feels like they shouldn't be the highlights. feels like it should be.

366
00:27:39.779 --> 00:27:42.660
The opening episode, the closing episode, the big 2 passer in the middle.

367
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:44.880
Certainly not the big 2 passer in the middle.

368
00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:47.940
We've got the discovery of Nick Curran too that year.

369
00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:48.779
Yep.

370
00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:57.660
And don't forget, Adam Smith from Series 5, he contributed an awful lot to the success of that season by directing the 11th hour and the Angels 2 passer.

371
00:27:57.720 --> 00:27:59.640
Richard, any comments?

372
00:27:59.700 --> 00:28:02.460
I just can't get past the whole.

373
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:05.759
I'm not going to use the same terms that we did with the pregnancy thing.

374
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:22.500
You can't land this And he does his absolute best and sterling casting, you know, of really, it was miraculous to resurrect Betty Davis and put her back in the air. and have her to have her do that myth thing.

375
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:26.400
But it's just, oh, I'm really surprised there wasn't more of a backlash, actually.

376
00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:32.700
But maybe that's the point of science fiction and to have us question and feel queasy.

377
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:34.740
I don't think it's the point of Doctor Who.

378
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:38.940
And I really don't know where, and this is just on a narrative thing.

379
00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:46.500
I just don't see how the character of Amy could come back from that with any sense of trust or any wish to travel with him anymore.

380
00:28:47.220 --> 00:29:02.039
I'm going to say something here, and I think it's to do with Amy, is that for me, it's Karen's performance in this season, especially towards the end, is that I really begin to like Amy a lot more.

381
00:29:02.099 --> 00:29:16.619
I'm not a big fan of hers in series 5 and or necessarily Karen's acting performances and I think she really grows in series 6 and I really enjoy her immensely in series 7.

382
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:18.240
Maybe it's the hair.

383
00:29:18.299 --> 00:29:19.079
I don't know.

384
00:29:19.140 --> 00:29:19.980
Got to get that in.

385
00:29:20.039 --> 00:29:24.299
Do you think it could specifically be the girl who waited because that's an absolute showcase for her?

386
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:26.099
She is great in that.

387
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:33.720
Maybe it's because Amy is a team with Rory, you know, and I love Arthur so much.

388
00:29:33.779 --> 00:29:45.660
Maybe that's why rather than fighting against the previous season where she's in love with the doctor sort of thing and and I've always feel that poor Arthur is an afterthought, you know?

389
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:52.140
I don't know, maybe it's maybe it's just that storyline where she's really in love with her husband that helps Nathan.

390
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:53.819
I'm not sure. articulating it.

391
00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:55.559
She isn't in love with the doctor.

392
00:29:55.619 --> 00:30:01.859
She just wants to jump him. after having a difficult time crawling through the crash of the Byzantium.

393
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:12.539
And it is established, isn't it, beyond any doubt in Amy's choice, which is why it's called that, that she will choose Rory O for the doctor.

394
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:18.119
And given that she starts the season by escaping from her wedding by running off with the doctor.

395
00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:19.440
Yeah, you're right.

396
00:30:19.500 --> 00:30:30.119
Perhaps I'm mis remembering my only journey here where I actually begin to like her a lot sooner than series 6 is actually that 2nd half of series 5, whereas I really...

397
00:30:30.180 --> 00:30:33.539
That's probably a visceral feeling on your behalf, that you're in Rory's corner.

398
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:40.440
And so Amy, what makes her interesting in series 5 is that she's not a clearly morally delineated character.

399
00:30:40.500 --> 00:30:42.599
Yeah, and I think that's deliberate.

400
00:30:42.660 --> 00:30:44.400
I think that's absolutely deliberate.

401
00:30:44.460 --> 00:30:47.160
I think that we are meant to see.

402
00:30:47.220 --> 00:30:50.880
So we get this synthesis at the end of five, don't we?

403
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:57.900
Where she says, yes, I'm going to my wedding and my imaginary friends going to be there and we're both going to run off with him together at the end.

404
00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:01.319
She gets to have both childhood and adulthood at the same time.

405
00:31:01.380 --> 00:31:07.200
And when she rejects a relationship with Arthur.

406
00:31:07.259 --> 00:31:23.039
She's like embarrassed by Rory in the 11th hour, like she kind of doesn't want to admit that he's her boyfriend so much so that at the end of that episode when we see the wedding dress on the back of the door, we actually don't know who she's going to marry.

407
00:31:23.099 --> 00:31:24.779
Is she going to marry Jeff?

408
00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:26.700
Is she going to marry Rory?

409
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:28.140
We actually don't know at that point.

410
00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:36.299
So it's only after that that we discovered that, uh, it's after the Angels 2 parter, isn't it, that we discover that it's Rory.

411
00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:50.460
And that's the synthesis of the childhood versus adult theme because when you are growing up, you get crushes on people. whereas when you become an adult, hopefully that turns into something more and true love and the doctor is a crush and Rory is her true love.

412
00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:51.000
Yeah.

413
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:52.740
Okay.

414
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:53.940
One to watch.

415
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:55.440
One to avoid.

416
00:31:55.500 --> 00:31:56.700
It can be more than one.

417
00:31:56.819 --> 00:31:57.599
I've got a list.

418
00:31:57.779 --> 00:32:01.259
And ones that fly under the radar, series 6.

419
00:32:02.099 --> 00:32:08.519
I would. watch, I think the two-parter at the beginning is really great.

420
00:32:08.579 --> 00:32:11.759
It's epic and properly filming and stuff.

421
00:32:11.819 --> 00:32:12.839
I think it's really, really good.

422
00:32:12.900 --> 00:32:14.400
So that's one to watch.

423
00:32:14.460 --> 00:32:22.740
I think the one to avoid is probably night terrors, even though it has stuff going for it, I think it's pretty terrible, you're pulling a face.

424
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.140
I am, the one to avoid is clearly gangers.

425
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:26.640
Oh, yes.

426
00:32:26.700 --> 00:32:27.240
God.

427
00:32:27.299 --> 00:32:28.440
Oh my goodness, yes.

428
00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:32.819
Yes, it's the deer of modern Doctor Who up until Christmas 2017.

429
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:34.380
Yeah, it is terrible.

430
00:32:34.500 --> 00:32:35.940
Wow.

431
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:37.500
Tick, tick.

432
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:39.299
I took both of those boxes.

433
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:42.299
I will also throw in.

434
00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:43.980
Oh yeah, night terrace is awful.

435
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:45.960
I hate the game as 2 parter.

436
00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:50.220
I avoid pirates because I just think it falls to pieces.

437
00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:50.940
Yeah, yeah.

438
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:52.259
And what's the other one?

439
00:32:53.099 --> 00:32:55.200
Let's kill Hitler.

440
00:32:55.259 --> 00:32:56.220
I'm having a conniption.

441
00:32:56.279 --> 00:32:59.759
Like, although there's good stuff in now, I just, I just struggle.

442
00:32:59.819 --> 00:33:01.140
Do you disagree with the premise of that?

443
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:03.900
No, we should kill him.

444
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:05.640
Thank you, Peter, as ever.

445
00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:09.839
No, it's it's the whole, I'm dying on the stairs, secret. dreadful.

446
00:33:09.900 --> 00:33:12.000
Yeah, not even Matt can save that.

447
00:33:12.059 --> 00:33:13.140
Dicks in my mind.

448
00:33:13.259 --> 00:33:16.200
So I just really struggle with it.

449
00:33:16.259 --> 00:33:19.319
Several times in his era, Matt is asked to do the impossible.

450
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:24.599
And 99% of the time when I was to do that, he pulls it off, but in that sequence, he doesn't.

451
00:33:24.660 --> 00:33:28.619
Maybe in the Mr. Clever sequence in Nightmare and Silvery doesn't pull it off, but yeah.

452
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:30.599
Also, everyone go and watch the gold complex.

453
00:33:30.660 --> 00:33:32.099
That's really great Yeah, yeah.

454
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:32.940
One to watch.

455
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:33.960
Yeah.

456
00:33:34.019 --> 00:33:35.039
The god complex.

457
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:38.940
I don't think it's the script necessarily either.

458
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:40.859
I think it's Nick Curran, I think is incredible.

459
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:42.000
Same with girl who waited.

460
00:33:42.059 --> 00:33:46.500
Look, the girl who waited in the gold complex are a 12 punch for me at the towards the end of the year.

461
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:50.220
Yeah, and they really need it at that point in the series. really needed.

462
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:51.660
They outshine.

463
00:33:51.720 --> 00:34:01.559
And I mean, I know that Stephen's 2 part at the beginning and the wedding has some great stuff in there, but for me, these 2 outshine.

464
00:34:01.619 --> 00:34:05.279
Maybe it's because they're a little bit more not overly clever.

465
00:34:05.339 --> 00:34:08.940
Like not trying to be overly clever.

466
00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:14.460
Like, I just enjoy them and I think they're solidly directed and beautifully played by everyone.

467
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:16.079
They're like a town called Mercy the next year.

468
00:34:16.139 --> 00:34:17.880
They are the gold in Doctor Who.

469
00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:19.500
They are the great standalone episode.

470
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:23.699
The other one is the doctor's wife, which I think is also just beautiful.

471
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:26.340
And beautifully directed.

472
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:27.360
Yes.

473
00:34:27.420 --> 00:34:28.980
And under the radar?

474
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:30.239
Got it.

475
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:30.659
Complex.

476
00:34:30.780 --> 00:34:34.440
Maybe gold complex. closing time is another one, which I've actually grow to love.

477
00:34:34.500 --> 00:34:36.719
I think closing time is pretty good.

478
00:34:36.780 --> 00:34:40.320
I like wedding of River song in a way that a lot of other people don't.

479
00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:59.039
Okay, series, let's go to series seven.

480
00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:00.960
Where do we sit with everything now?

481
00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:02.039
How do we feel about it?

482
00:35:02.099 --> 00:35:16.739
Well, I think it's the weakest of the three, but what I never realised before is how much better the 1st half is than the 2nd half, and that 1st half with Amy and Rory is really actually quite great.

483
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:19.380
I think it's a great run.

484
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:20.639
It really is.

485
00:35:20.699 --> 00:35:26.340
Every single one of those episodes, has got something to recommend it even if I like some more than others.

486
00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:26.940
Yeah.

487
00:35:26.940 --> 00:35:31.260
But I also do think that it does flow on to the next couple of episodes.

488
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:39.659
I actually do think the 1st 3 car episodes, the snowmen, Pelsis and John and Rings all have are all very solid.

489
00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:44.880
Then it sort of begins to hit a bit of a speed bump after that.

490
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.920
That 2012 run recaptures some of the Chihuard de Viv of series 5, I think.

491
00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:53.579
If there was like a series that's really confident in itself.

492
00:35:53.639 --> 00:35:57.360
It knows its characters and it takes you along with it.

493
00:35:57.420 --> 00:35:58.739
Richard?

494
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:05.820
I was just thinking along the same lines that it feels like a lovely extension of Christmas going all through the year.

495
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:11.159
At the time it felt the haphazard nature of of the running of it, the timing of it.

496
00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:18.420
So a late season, beginning after waiting so long since the Christmas story, but we were treated to some very good things.

497
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:22.139
I don't think there's any poor story in the 1st mix at all, actually.

498
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:26.880
Angels is more than we expected and emotionally hits the mark.

499
00:36:26.940 --> 00:36:27.420
I'm coming back.

500
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:31.739
Power of 3 is a delight because of the casting because of Mark.

501
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:38.639
And no, actually, see, there are 2 kinds of scripts in this arc for me, and they're the ones entirely due to Mr. Moffat.

502
00:36:38.699 --> 00:36:53.940
They're the ones that, firstly, when he's at his most empowered at the beginning of the writing period and, you know, he's on fire and he's so full of wonderful complex ideas, but they do tend to take precedence over letting the actors do their job.

503
00:36:54.000 --> 00:37:09.900
And there is a subsumation of the actors in those stories, and we've mentioned some of them already, where they are working to please Stephen and not working to their best skills as in working with each other.

504
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:18.659
So simpler scripts, which maybe don't deliver as much on paper, such as I wouldn't say gold complex, because that's actually good on both levels.

505
00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:22.199
But things where the character driven lodge is a really good example of.

506
00:37:22.260 --> 00:37:39.179
But in this season, just going back to it, you've got, um, say town called Mercy, which is, you know, a play on an Elmore Leonard, um, Western of the 50s and 60s, and again, very spare writing where the actors have to do things with their faces and their pauses and their tones.

507
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:42.239
And I think we're rewarded when they're just allowed to work.

508
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:49.500
Sometimes they swing towards one, sometimes to the other, and then we get a nice balance between the two.

509
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:59.760
So for me, this season is at its most successful in the quiet moments where the script is perhaps more paired, and the actors are allowed to do their work.

510
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.380
One to watch, one to avoid, one that flies under the radar.

511
00:38:04.500 --> 00:38:06.119
A town called Mercy?

512
00:38:06.179 --> 00:38:06.719
Absolutely.

513
00:38:06.780 --> 00:38:07.320
Yeah.

514
00:38:07.380 --> 00:38:08.699
It's really very good.

515
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:11.340
One to avoid.

516
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:12.840
Yeah, it's dismal, isn't it?

517
00:38:12.900 --> 00:38:17.639
I mean, I don't know how you could watch home because you'd wake up after 40 minutes and suddenly it's over.

518
00:38:17.699 --> 00:38:19.320
Yeah, it's kind of terrible.

519
00:38:19.380 --> 00:38:21.239
What flies under the radar?

520
00:38:21.300 --> 00:38:22.260
Rings of Akatar.

521
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:23.280
Yeah, maybe Ackerton does.

522
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:24.780
Really?

523
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:29.460
I'm sitting here because like these are answers that I would be giving, you know?

524
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:33.300
But I also think dinosaurs flies under the radar because I actually really enjoy it.

525
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:33.900
I do too.

526
00:38:33.960 --> 00:38:37.260
And I think snowman is another one, which I just keep going back to all the time.

527
00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:38.519
It's one to watch.

528
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:42.239
Buds of Akatants, like Doreen's mopeds. fly under the radar.

529
00:38:42.300 --> 00:38:44.159
No, no, rings is definitely.

530
00:38:44.219 --> 00:38:45.420
And I also think the Bells of St.

531
00:38:45.420 --> 00:38:46.679
John also flies out of the red.

532
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:52.860
I think there's a lot going on there and whenever I come back to it, I think, oh, it's the bellses and John, and then I watch it and I go, oh, no, that's actually good.

533
00:38:52.980 --> 00:39:00.420
So when you hit that little sort of dull run of Cold War hide and journey to the centre of the Tartar, so you think, you know, we're just marking time here.

534
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:02.460
Avoid, avoid, avoid.

535
00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:07.739
We also we're forgetting about the Crimson horror, which is another one, which I think should be applauded. gone chalice.

536
00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:09.360
Although I really enjoy Cold War.

537
00:39:09.420 --> 00:39:11.880
And it is overcast.

538
00:39:11.940 --> 00:39:14.039
Yeah, and that's fine.

539
00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:18.480
And it is a tribute to the champions as we probably mentioned before.

540
00:39:18.539 --> 00:39:21.659
No, I really, really like that story and everyone plays it beautifully.

541
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:22.619
It's a lovely piece.

542
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:23.940
I like it when it's simple.

543
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:27.360
And then they're allowed to work and it does feel like a pert.

544
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:28.920
It feels like a Malcolm Hulk.

545
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:30.420
It's pared down novelette.

546
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:30.840
Yeah.

547
00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:36.300
And something we haven't mentioned that really works for the era, really elevates it is the Christmas episodes.

548
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:40.260
So Matt gets four, like David had four, and like Capaldi gets four.

549
00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:44.699
And 3 out of 4 are amazingly good.

550
00:39:44.699 --> 00:39:46.559
And they really bring the era up, I think.

551
00:39:46.679 --> 00:39:57.000
Well, one of my questions on my sheet here is about the Christmas specials and how as a group, they compare to tenants and what you think of each of those episodes.

552
00:39:57.059 --> 00:39:58.199
I agree with you.

553
00:39:58.260 --> 00:40:00.659
I think a Christmas carol is just perfectly crafted.

554
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:02.579
The snowman, I adore the snowman.

555
00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:03.300
Yeah, it's great.

556
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:12.300
I think it's my favourite only because I get brain drained from watching a Christmas carol because they can all, you know, timey whimey. and time of the doctor.

557
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:14.219
I really enjoy now. good.

558
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:18.719
And then there's the doctor and the widow and the wardrobe.

559
00:40:18.780 --> 00:40:20.280
And nobody dies.

560
00:40:20.340 --> 00:40:25.139
That's something that is a real positive in, I guess, that. thought you would hate that.

561
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:26.639
Yeah, they're positive for you.

562
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:28.199
Oh, no.

563
00:40:28.260 --> 00:40:28.980
Don't get me wrong.

564
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:33.360
I'm trying to find the good in it, but it is like the worst of them as far as I'm concerned.

565
00:40:33.420 --> 00:40:48.360
Yeah, I think there's just nothing very much there and there's a lot of kind of filling in time and it is that sort of thing where it's kind of like, oh, I've got to do another one of these, you know, what's a Christmas book that we love?

566
00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:52.199
But something needs to happen when they go into Narnia.

567
00:40:52.260 --> 00:40:53.280
You know what I mean?

568
00:40:53.340 --> 00:40:54.960
Like there needs to be the horrible queen.

569
00:40:55.019 --> 00:41:00.000
There needs to be something in there, not just acid rain.

570
00:41:00.059 --> 00:41:03.000
Yeah, there's no villain, and that's kind of a problem, I think.

571
00:41:03.059 --> 00:41:13.500
Russell's Christmas specials were always entertaining, but they were rarely amongst the best that each year had to offer, whereas a lot of Moffat's Christmas specials are among the best of the year.

572
00:41:13.619 --> 00:41:14.219
Yeah.

573
00:41:14.219 --> 00:41:15.780
Yeah, that thing.

574
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:30.900
I mean, Christmas Carol is so surprising because all of the others have been just very much the sort of thing that you can watch when you're you're having a kind of post-Christmas lunch coma. and you don't have to pay complete attention to it.

575
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:34.019
And that's a deliberate choice and it's the right choice.

576
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:41.159
And then to have Moffatt come along and do something complex and interesting and heartbreaking and just magical.

577
00:41:41.219 --> 00:41:52.079
The up to that point, voyage of the damned is my favourite because I actually think it's the most entertaining of all of and most substantial of all of the RTD ones.

578
00:41:52.139 --> 00:41:53.280
That's just for me anyway.

579
00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:01.860
All right, it's time to snog marry a void.

580
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:05.219
Claire Skinner, Tasha Lem, or Kate Stewart?

581
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:07.800
Sorry.

582
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:11.039
I would marry Tasha Lamb.

583
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:12.599
Snogger, so that works.

584
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:14.639
Yeah, she's fabulous.

585
00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:16.079
She's a Romulan, you know.

586
00:42:16.139 --> 00:42:26.039
And I think she's sort of really funny and likeable, and the doctor clearly kind of likes her, so, and, you know, he's got good taste in women, I suppose.

587
00:42:26.099 --> 00:42:26.519
Does he?

588
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:27.179
I don't know.

589
00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:28.440
I can't tell it's not my area.

590
00:42:28.500 --> 00:42:29.519
Marilyn Monroe.

591
00:42:29.579 --> 00:42:30.300
Yeah, that's true.

592
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:31.500
The Queen?

593
00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:37.199
And I, and I would, I would snog Claire Skinner.

594
00:42:37.260 --> 00:42:38.280
She's quite nice.

595
00:42:38.340 --> 00:42:44.400
I think she's rather sweet. and I would avoid what's her face because she's absolutely phoning it in.

596
00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:46.380
Right.

597
00:42:46.619 --> 00:42:49.559
And Peter agrees he's not in there.

598
00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:51.420
I love for Kate Stewart.

599
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:52.199
What's your?

600
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:54.960
If she's turning it in, you can have phone sex with her.

601
00:42:55.980 --> 00:43:01.619
I really love...

602
00:43:02.699 --> 00:43:04.619
The same characters?

603
00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:05.400
Yes.

604
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:08.280
Well, I've always loved Tasha Yar.

605
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:13.320
I thought she was just superb, if a little Olly Edge in a sinner later career.

606
00:43:13.380 --> 00:43:18.300
I'd really love Claire Skinner, and I've seen her in other things, and there's just...

607
00:43:18.300 --> 00:43:22.079
Again, I'd probably Snog Bill Bailey.

608
00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:27.539
Because he's really underserviced, so he'll be definitely needing.

609
00:43:27.539 --> 00:43:29.340
And he's also just so brilliant and funny.

610
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:34.260
And again, it's those things that, I mean, there's nothing for him to do, but that face.

611
00:43:34.619 --> 00:43:41.699
So, yeah, if it was Tashi Yaklisk, you know, I think you could marry Arabella Weir.

612
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:42.960
She's played the doctor.

613
00:43:43.019 --> 00:43:45.539
You'd really want quiet times though.

614
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:47.280
She could wait a bit shouty.

615
00:43:47.340 --> 00:43:54.480
You know, it's like having a, I'm having a really lovely fun manic time with, you know, one of your favourite people.

616
00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:55.980
I won't mention anyone right now.

617
00:43:56.039 --> 00:43:58.380
I look at someone on the series anyway.

618
00:43:58.440 --> 00:43:59.639
We know she can cook.

619
00:43:59.699 --> 00:44:00.780
Well, she can cook.

620
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:04.440
Yeah, I mean, it's like snogging Bonnie Langford or living with Bonnie Langford.

621
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:06.000
I mean, do you really want to hear those scales?

622
00:44:06.059 --> 00:44:06.420
No, both.

623
00:44:06.420 --> 00:44:07.199
Every morning?

624
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:08.340
Scales every morning?

625
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:09.000
Yes.

626
00:44:12.059 --> 00:44:16.079
Well, I am going to marry Tasha...

627
00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:18.840
No, no, the skin of evil.

628
00:44:18.900 --> 00:44:20.699
Tasha Lem.

629
00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:25.860
I'm going to avoid Claire Skinner because just can't stand her voice.

630
00:44:26.579 --> 00:44:31.500
And I will therefore snog Kate Stewart even though she's phoning it in.

631
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:32.280
Brilliant.

632
00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:33.900
It's a slight overbite there too.

633
00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:34.860
I'd be...

634
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:36.000
Oh, just not Kate Stewart.

635
00:44:36.059 --> 00:44:40.619
She got a more blank face than her dad, and I'm talking about the end of series, he's a cyberman.

636
00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:43.980
Oh dear.

637
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:45.119
All right.

638
00:44:45.179 --> 00:44:50.880
Matt's outfit change from series 5 to the end of series 7.

639
00:44:50.940 --> 00:44:55.739
Certainly a lot more tailored and costume.

640
00:44:55.739 --> 00:45:01.679
Like, what do we think about that change from the Raggedy Man through the green coat to the fun?

641
00:45:01.739 --> 00:45:02.400
Yes, Richard.

642
00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:15.119
I was really wondering why Marvel was allowed to dictate how the action figures would be made from now on because it really just feels like something you'd buy, you know, from a stand rather than in an op shop.

643
00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:21.480
But then so does Jody's and that's actually bought in an option. not working on anything. for me right now.

644
00:45:21.539 --> 00:45:23.880
I don't like it when it's so designed.

645
00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:27.300
Then I love Tom's season 18, so there you go.

646
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:29.039
Well, that's June Hudson, though.

647
00:45:29.099 --> 00:45:30.300
Yes, yes.

648
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:31.079
She's crazy.

649
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:32.099
Why wasn't she asked?

650
00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:35.280
I don't like it at all.

651
00:45:35.340 --> 00:45:36.840
The final costume?

652
00:45:36.900 --> 00:45:37.860
No, awful.

653
00:45:37.980 --> 00:45:40.079
And it's the Doctor Who thing.

654
00:45:40.139 --> 00:45:51.000
I think that over that last 10 years of the classic series where everyone wore a coat that went to their knees, I think it was absolutely the right thing to avoid.

655
00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:55.260
And so Sylvester McCoy's costume comes as a bit of a relief.

656
00:45:55.260 --> 00:46:01.440
And the previous costumes all kind of avoid that, I guess, maybe Eccleston.

657
00:46:01.500 --> 00:46:06.119
I love the series 5 series 6 costume that Matt wears.

658
00:46:06.179 --> 00:46:07.260
I think it's really terrific.

659
00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:08.699
I like the green coat.

660
00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:09.840
Yeah, sweet.

661
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:11.519
But I really dislike the purple.

662
00:46:11.579 --> 00:46:13.559
I think it's it's too designed.

663
00:46:13.619 --> 00:46:16.559
It's too much like a Doctor Who outfit.

664
00:46:16.619 --> 00:46:28.380
It sort of reflects the change in Matt's performance as well and he's a bit more straitjacketed by this costume that he's wearing rather than that kind of free-wheeling energy that he had in the early days.

665
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:39.420
Now, that's a really important point and something June Hudson did allude to in one of the DWMs is that the costume and she was talking about what she designed with Lala, not for Lala.

666
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:49.980
She said, I believe we always get a much more expressive performance from our actors when they are involved in the costuming and are allowed to imbue their character in with the design.

667
00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:56.940
And it's certainly true of an architectural space as well, whether that be domestic or something that's done for the public, a theatre or whatever.

668
00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:03.300
There is a sense of when you have community involvement or you're thinking about what's going to go on with what you're designing.

669
00:47:03.420 --> 00:47:10.079
It will imbue the colour of the performance, and that's absolutely what happens here, and I think possibly why we don't like it.

670
00:47:10.139 --> 00:47:16.199
The fact that it's super designed isn't itself aesthetically questionable, but it really does constrain the actor's performance.

671
00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:27.239
I also think the fact that we're not exactly in love with that last series 7 V, you know, and he's wearing that coat, sort of ties into that too, you know?

672
00:47:27.300 --> 00:47:28.260
But I do agree.

673
00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:39.360
I just think having the shorter coat is quite an interesting thing, like the observation, I should say, that, you know, it just we're not in the long coats, which make it a costume, really.

674
00:47:39.420 --> 00:47:41.760
Who goes around with that unless it's winter, I guess.

675
00:47:41.820 --> 00:47:43.500
And Russell made that very clear.

676
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:54.360
He wanted it just to be one step away from what you're wearing in the street or with, in Chris's case, a Barnsley accountant on a cheeky Friday off with the secretary.

677
00:47:54.420 --> 00:47:58.920
But, you know, what they do when they think they're being hit, what straight boys do when they want to look cool.

678
00:47:58.980 --> 00:48:02.820
But yeah, it should be something that's accessible to a young fan.

679
00:48:12.900 --> 00:48:20.219
We're gonna talk about something that Stephen really goes for, which is the families, the families of our lead.

680
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:23.099
So let's talk about Amy's family.

681
00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:24.960
She's got an aunt, a mum and dad.

682
00:48:25.019 --> 00:48:25.559
Any thoughts?

683
00:48:25.619 --> 00:48:27.659
Oh, she's got that thing that hangs down from the ceiling.

684
00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:29.460
Sheila Reed.

685
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:31.860
That's unfair.

686
00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:37.440
I mean, you know, I know she doesn't observe her boundaries, but that's harsh.

687
00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:40.199
I like having relatives to keep an eye on you.

688
00:48:40.260 --> 00:48:42.900
What do you think about the families that he creates?

689
00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:43.920
Maybe I'll phrase it this way.

690
00:48:43.980 --> 00:48:45.000
We've got Amy's family.

691
00:48:45.059 --> 00:48:48.059
Aunt, mum, and dad, Rory's family.

692
00:48:48.119 --> 00:48:59.820
Brian, Clara's family, dad, mum, Linda, and Gran, Rivers family, her mum and dad, and the Paternoster family, Bastro Jenny Instracts.

693
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:03.840
What do you think about the families that are created outside of the court for?

694
00:49:03.900 --> 00:49:45.420
Well, I mean, the only real proper family that's created is the Paternoster gang, and it's, I've said this before, that it's absolutely typical that Moffat should create a sort of series of secondary characters who, uh, you know, like a married couple, one of whom is a Silurian, and, you know, their Santarian Butler, that that's the sort of thing that they're very sort of strange and Doctor Who-ish. and we've seen him fish into his toy box full of action figures before, for, you know, the finale of the era in time of the doctor and for the finale of series 5.

695
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:47.639
And I think they're really good.

696
00:49:47.699 --> 00:49:48.719
I think they're really funny.

697
00:49:48.780 --> 00:49:56.099
They're not at all the sort of thing that Russell wants to do, which is to create a kind of TV family that you might see in another show.

698
00:49:56.159 --> 00:50:09.059
Soap, which is RTD, the other feels more poor Cornell, as in comic book writing, because the characters and the way they assemble is a very comic DC Marvel way of doing it, which is quirky and fun and very contemporary.

699
00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:21.000
I think, you know, Russell is much more aware of what's going on in TV generally and what makes for good successful television than Moffatt.

700
00:50:21.059 --> 00:50:26.159
And I think, you know, Moffatt's a very skilled TV writer with sort of a particular set of talents.

701
00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:29.099
And so he's not interested in doing that thing.

702
00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:34.619
He's not interested in creating a family that's like a recognisable family from another TV show.

703
00:50:34.679 --> 00:50:36.059
Do you think that's a problem?

704
00:50:36.300 --> 00:50:41.880
Look, personally, I like the families in Russell a lot.

705
00:50:41.940 --> 00:50:54.840
It's one of the most important reasons that that's my favourite era of Doctor Who is, you know, Jackie, Francine, Sylvia. like they're all just wonderful, Neres, Annalise.

706
00:50:55.139 --> 00:50:58.800
Russell is aware of the comedy value of a family.

707
00:50:58.860 --> 00:51:00.420
That's not Steven's mode of comedy.

708
00:51:00.539 --> 00:51:07.800
The only family that Stephen's interested in is the one that we're interested in, the nuclear family, Amy, Rory, River, the doctor.

709
00:51:07.860 --> 00:51:09.539
That's the family he's interested in.

710
00:51:09.900 --> 00:51:12.179
Brian works, but...

711
00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:13.320
Yeah, oh, yeah.

712
00:51:13.380 --> 00:51:14.099
Brian's cool.

713
00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:18.780
And Brian is in, you know, basically in 2 episodes, isn't he?

714
00:51:18.840 --> 00:51:20.579
And they're the 2 Chibnal episodes.

715
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:21.900
Is that all he's in?

716
00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:29.880
And I just think it's such tremendously great casting and both of those episodes are properly funny.

717
00:51:29.940 --> 00:51:32.039
And so Mark Williams is perfect.

718
00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:37.559
It works so well that when Chen will become showrunner, he tries to recapture lightning in a bottle with Graham.

719
00:51:37.619 --> 00:51:39.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

720
00:51:39.239 --> 00:51:43.500
And, you know, Graham's fitfully funny, but, um, I think.

721
00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:44.820
Who said cream's fit and funny?

722
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:48.119
fitfully, like, in fits.

723
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:56.219
Do you think that Matt's doctor should have on the main show met any classic companions?

724
00:51:57.059 --> 00:52:02.219
Obviously, he was in the Sarah Jane Adventures with Aunt Joe. It's gorgeous.

725
00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:03.599
It's really good Oh, yes.

726
00:52:03.659 --> 00:52:04.380
It's wonderful.

727
00:52:04.500 --> 00:52:11.159
Is there any classic companion that you could ever have seen on the main series with him in an episode if you had to write something?

728
00:52:11.219 --> 00:52:11.940
Dodo?

729
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:13.139
Yeah, I knew you were going to say that.

730
00:52:13.619 --> 00:52:18.000
Well, in no way following that statement at all.

731
00:52:18.059 --> 00:52:21.360
I was so excited at the thought that it's a 50th anniversary.

732
00:52:21.420 --> 00:52:32.519
At last, Carol Anne Ford gets to make a reappearance, and I thought the sheet was cruel, and there was no reason for her to put her under a sheet, and, you know, so... with Pete and the silver coal.

733
00:52:32.579 --> 00:52:33.300
What was the question?

734
00:52:33.539 --> 00:52:36.179
I've forgotten too, God.

735
00:52:36.239 --> 00:52:37.260
Chameleon?

736
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:37.860
Nissa?

737
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:39.239
Chameleons in all of them.

738
00:52:39.300 --> 00:52:40.860
I...

739
00:52:40.860 --> 00:52:42.900
Chameleon isn't all of it.

740
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:45.659
I agree, Katie Manning should have been in this series.

741
00:52:45.719 --> 00:52:48.300
I don't want to see any old companions back.

742
00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:49.260
Does that make me a bad person?

743
00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:50.340
Yeah, very on that.

744
00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:51.840
I just, I'm done with that.

745
00:52:51.900 --> 00:52:53.099
No, you're very dark personally.

746
00:52:53.159 --> 00:52:55.380
Well, Nathan, what about returning monsters?

747
00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:58.619
How do you think in this era, the Daleks, the Cyberman, the Centaurans?

748
00:52:58.679 --> 00:53:03.900
Ice where is the cellarines and the great intelligence are handled versus something like the silence or the angels?

749
00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:08.460
I don't think he cares for Daleks at all.

750
00:53:08.519 --> 00:53:12.360
And so he does some Dalek stories, but they're not at all about the Daleks.

751
00:53:12.420 --> 00:53:15.659
I mean, the big Dalek story asylum of the Daleks.

752
00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:21.719
He's entirely about Amy and Rory's relationship and the Daleks aren't really the focus at all.

753
00:53:21.780 --> 00:53:24.539
So I don't think he's that interested in the Daleks.

754
00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:27.179
I don't think he's that interested in any of those things.

755
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:34.500
I mean, you start seeing Cybermen come along in stories that aren't Cybermen's stories, like in, you know, Pandora or whatever.

756
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:39.599
He just sees them as part of the Doctor Who aesthetic, but he doesn't want to write stories about them.

757
00:53:39.659 --> 00:53:42.239
He wants to write. doing it because he thinks he should.

758
00:53:42.300 --> 00:53:48.420
Yeah, yeah, he's much more interested in his own, much more interesting villains and monsters, like the silence and the angels.

759
00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:59.940
And in the people, you know, like he's interested in telling stories about the Dr. Amy and Rory or the doctor and Clara and he's not that interested in telling stories about the sidemen at all.

760
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:13.860
And the one thing that he does, I think, is the great intelligence where he brings that back, gives it a proper backstory that doesn't ruin it, and creates a pretty entertaining update of that concept.

761
00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:15.719
Okay, fair enough.

762
00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:30.179
I think the Simon thing's interesting because I think Stephen actually uses the Simon a lot more than, say, the Daleks. and I really like it in the series 5 finale where you've got the lone side with all of the tentacles coming out of the head.

763
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:31.739
He tries to do something different there.

764
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:42.000
But it is a case of, well, I'll pay lip service to it because when Amy gets taken in series 6, I'd expected then some sort of we're going to have to search for her.

765
00:54:42.059 --> 00:54:49.500
But instead, you just get the big cyberman fleet at the beginning of the next episode and then they're done.

766
00:54:49.559 --> 00:54:51.480
You know, it's like 5 minutes and you're gone.

767
00:54:51.539 --> 00:54:57.000
He sort of creates an in-story reason why there's a giant break in the middle of that series.

768
00:54:57.059 --> 00:55:15.000
So there's a giant brake so that Matt can go off and find the baby, which I think is kind of cute, like the in-story reason why there isn't a series 5 with David Tennant because he decides he doesn't want a companion at the end of Planet of the Dead and he's not going to do a series this year.

769
00:55:15.059 --> 00:55:24.000
Yeah, but also, I mean, I think, you know, if we talk about the Centaurans and Solurians, he's not interested in doing them the way that they're traditionally done.

770
00:55:24.059 --> 00:55:33.179
Like, let's have the one off characters that are not necessarily indicative of their race.

771
00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:34.079
So a different twist.

772
00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:42.840
Rather than mining those kind of B list aliens, like the Silurians, we need it and still need a really good auton 2 parter.

773
00:55:42.900 --> 00:55:45.719
Yeah, he's gone back with the autons.

774
00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:47.820
There are autons in Pandora.

775
00:55:47.820 --> 00:55:50.340
Yeah, but, you know, we need a story built around them.

776
00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:52.619
We need a Zigon 2 partter for the autons.

777
00:55:52.739 --> 00:55:53.699
Yeah, yeah.

778
00:55:53.760 --> 00:55:58.800
What are the most successful monsters here in this in this era for you?

779
00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:02.400
One off or other created by Stephen?

780
00:56:02.460 --> 00:56:04.440
The silence are a pretty amazing concept.

781
00:56:04.500 --> 00:56:06.239
Yeah, and they look great.

782
00:56:06.300 --> 00:56:07.079
Yeah, yeah.

783
00:56:07.139 --> 00:56:08.699
They are freaky.

784
00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:40.679
Well, I mean, they're a bit like the angels. you know, it's usually just a sort of weird high concept thing where the angels sort of interfere with the way the story is told, you know, like all the, although the angels move, we don't get to see that happen because as the audience, we're looking at them so they can't move while we're looking at them with the exception of that one moment in Forest of the Dead, and then the silence who justify the gaps in the storytelling, you know, like we don't get to see the bit that the silence is in because the characters can't remember it.

785
00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:47.460
And so it is very high concept and they're both monsters that have an effect on how the narrative goes.

786
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:52.139
Such a meta structural critique of how film is it.

787
00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:52.920
It's so French.

788
00:56:52.980 --> 00:56:56.039
It's so, it is.

789
00:56:56.039 --> 00:56:58.320
It's so many. can't make that claim for the ice warrior.

790
00:56:58.380 --> 00:57:00.179
Not generally, no.

791
00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:01.920
Oh, I would have to say river song.

792
00:57:02.519 --> 00:57:13.679
And reasons for that because Mel is, you know, a point of danger to not just, you know, not just to the characters, but to the structure of the season, indeed, of Doctor Who.

793
00:57:13.739 --> 00:57:17.460
River Song has the power to completely pull apart what Doctor Who is.

794
00:57:17.579 --> 00:57:20.340
You can't imagine this era without her, can you?

795
00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:22.380
I didn't like her at the time.

796
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:25.380
I've got to say, I don't know if I was the only one in the room about that.

797
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:43.139
I just thought Alex is very good and has a lovely breezy, again, a lovely 1940s American, not really slapstick, more of that, a screwgall comedy style, but the cool girl comedy style I've talked about before.

798
00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:52.440
But I actually think she handles it really, really well because in many ways it is a one note character, she just is there to play sass.

799
00:57:52.679 --> 00:57:55.500
It's a lovely knowing quality, isn't it?

800
00:57:55.559 --> 00:57:55.800
Yeah.

801
00:57:55.860 --> 00:58:01.139
But then there's moments where, so she's injured by the angel in angels take that hat.

802
00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:03.480
It swings for me an angel's take Manhattan.

803
00:58:03.539 --> 00:58:05.639
She's allowed to show vulnerability.

804
00:58:05.699 --> 00:58:15.900
I know she's done it before, but there's that sense of, ah, there's the human underneath and there's the fragility and there's that you're actually on panic stations the entire time we see you, aren't you?

805
00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:17.880
Nothing is assured in your life.

806
00:58:17.940 --> 00:58:29.400
I like the last kiss in the series 6 opening 2 parter where we're warned that the last kiss for her is coming and then we see it happen.

807
00:58:29.460 --> 00:58:30.960
She kisses him goodbye.

808
00:58:31.019 --> 00:58:33.659
He's never experienced that before.

809
00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:39.480
And so she now knows that we've reached that stage of the relationship where she never gets to kiss him goodbye again.

810
00:58:39.539 --> 00:58:41.760
And I think she plays that beautifully.

811
00:58:41.820 --> 00:58:47.579
And that's, you know, it's such a science fiction thing, but you can still understand how to feel about it.

812
00:58:47.639 --> 00:58:57.420
I think it's very good I like that superb opening sequence in the time of angels where she escapes and she's really, she's really Catherine Hepburn in that.

813
00:58:57.599 --> 00:59:00.659
Yeah, no, that's a that's a beautiful moment.

814
00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:01.320
Yeah.

815
00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:04.559
I just want the revenge of the attracti.

816
00:59:04.619 --> 00:59:05.340
Why didn't that ever happen?

817
00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:06.659
They're great.

818
00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:08.280
You know, that could have been fun.

819
00:59:08.340 --> 00:59:09.900
They looked like they were having a ball.

820
00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:24.239
The opening titles for the Matt Smith era and the music goes with them.

821
00:59:24.300 --> 00:59:27.840
Obviously, we've got two sets of titles eventually.

822
00:59:27.900 --> 00:59:31.139
How do you feel about the titles sequence?

823
00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:31.739
this era.

824
00:59:31.800 --> 00:59:39.719
Well, I think we decided the 1st title, the series 5 and 6 title looks like a colonoscopy, doesn't it, really?

825
00:59:41.280 --> 00:59:44.820
Second one looks like the mill threw up in a kaleidoscope.

826
00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:47.219
Yeah, yeah, I don't like the 2nd one at all.

827
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:49.559
So I don't think either of them are very good.

828
00:59:49.619 --> 00:59:58.139
I think the music's okay, but the various David Tennant related versions that we got during the RTD era, I think, are pretty great.

829
00:59:58.199 --> 01:00:00.599
I think I canola's version of the theme is really great.

830
01:00:00.659 --> 01:00:06.179
I don't think that the theme during Moffat's time on the show is all that good.

831
01:00:06.239 --> 01:00:10.800
I do like the little intro sequence that he introduces right at the beginning.

832
01:00:10.860 --> 01:00:14.159
It's always with me for this, the little horns thing.

833
01:00:14.219 --> 01:00:15.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

834
01:00:15.300 --> 01:00:16.380
Well, however, okay.

835
01:00:16.440 --> 01:00:18.000
I'm not musically inclined.

836
01:00:18.059 --> 01:00:25.559
I think it is a sad truth of modern Doctor Who, that every time the title sequence and the title music changes, it gets a little bit worse.

837
01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:28.019
Oh, ow.

838
01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:32.940
Speaking of words, here are a list of people you may know.

839
01:00:33.000 --> 01:00:35.280
Well, actually some are better than others.

840
01:00:35.340 --> 01:00:36.239
Amelia.

841
01:00:36.300 --> 01:00:46.739
Mandy and Timmy, Elliot, young Kazran, little regenerating girl, Toby Avery, Adam, young Mel's, young Rory, George, Cyril, and Lily Arwell.

842
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:48.239
No, actually, they're okay.

843
01:00:48.300 --> 01:00:57.059
Laura, the robot girl, Digby and Francesca and young Walter, Angie and Artie, Maitland, Mary, young Clara, Barnable.

844
01:00:57.119 --> 01:00:59.639
There are a list of child actors from this era.

845
01:00:59.699 --> 01:01:01.800
Do you think there's too many of them?

846
01:01:03.300 --> 01:01:05.699
Half of them are pretty charming.

847
01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:06.960
Toby Avery.

848
01:01:07.019 --> 01:01:08.340
Toby Avery is very good.

849
01:01:08.460 --> 01:01:09.239
Young Amy.

850
01:01:09.300 --> 01:01:10.679
Yeah, young Amy's.

851
01:01:10.679 --> 01:01:11.760
Amelia is fantastic.

852
01:01:11.820 --> 01:01:13.019
Toby Avery's great.

853
01:01:13.079 --> 01:01:14.880
Young Cozran's, yeah, great.

854
01:01:14.940 --> 01:01:17.039
I do actually like Cyril and Lily.

855
01:01:17.099 --> 01:01:17.940
Yeah, I do too.

856
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:19.320
Barnable Edwards is not too bad.

857
01:01:20.219 --> 01:01:21.900
Tom Tom.

858
01:01:21.960 --> 01:01:24.480
Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom.

859
01:01:24.659 --> 01:01:27.539
That's the worst dad joke.

860
01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:29.280
And I just don't care.

861
01:01:30.059 --> 01:01:32.280
Like, you didn't care for that question.

862
01:01:32.940 --> 01:01:35.639
But Todd, tell us about some ones you didn't like.

863
01:01:35.699 --> 01:01:38.519
No, no, don't. time.

864
01:01:38.519 --> 01:01:41.519
Okay, so, Fraser.

865
01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:42.840
The little boy from Night Terrors.

866
01:01:42.900 --> 01:01:43.320
Tell us about him.

867
01:01:43.380 --> 01:01:44.159
George.

868
01:01:44.219 --> 01:01:46.800
Yeah, he's quite well directed.

869
01:01:46.860 --> 01:01:48.239
He really plays it well. yeah.

870
01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:51.900
Yeah, I think that he's given very simple things to do.

871
01:01:51.960 --> 01:01:53.699
And so it's a good thing?

872
01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:54.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

873
01:01:55.019 --> 01:02:01.199
But they direct around him and that's a beautifully directed story, even if it's not that good a story.

874
01:02:01.500 --> 01:02:03.599
Speaking of directors.

875
01:02:03.659 --> 01:02:05.639
Peter mentioned some of these people before.

876
01:02:05.699 --> 01:02:06.480
Here's some names.

877
01:02:06.539 --> 01:02:07.440
Jamie Payne.

878
01:02:07.500 --> 01:02:09.300
Time of the Doctor Hyde.

879
01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:14.519
Nick Curran, day of the doctor, asylum, angels, golf complex, the girl who waited.

880
01:02:14.579 --> 01:02:28.199
Saw Metstein, name of the doctor, Crimson Horror, Snowman, Mercy, Dinosaur, Toby Haynes, Impossible Astronaut, Day of the Moon, Christmas Carol, Big Bang, Pandora, Adam Smith, 11th hour, Time of the Angels, Flesh, and Stone.

881
01:02:28.260 --> 01:02:35.579
Richard Clark, who does night terrors, and the doctor's wife.

882
01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:37.980
Yeah, see, they're all good, aren't they?

883
01:02:38.039 --> 01:02:39.239
They're all really good.

884
01:02:39.300 --> 01:02:40.619
I mean, I...

885
01:02:40.679 --> 01:02:40.980
Yeah.

886
01:02:41.039 --> 01:02:49.199
RTD had sort of solid directors, but you've got these new cameras under Moffat and you've got a bit more money and you've got high definition and stuff.

887
01:02:49.260 --> 01:02:54.840
And so you get directors like Harran who just do incredible things.

888
01:02:54.900 --> 01:02:55.559
Adam Smith as well.

889
01:02:55.619 --> 01:03:03.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah. proper visual style and proper like Nick Curran in particular is good no matter the quality of the material.

890
01:03:03.239 --> 01:03:05.639
So you mentioned Jamie Payne there.

891
01:03:05.699 --> 01:03:06.719
Jamie Payne is also good.

892
01:03:06.780 --> 01:03:10.679
I think he does a sterling job of the time of the doctor, but he can't really save hide.

893
01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:11.519
Yeah.

894
01:03:11.519 --> 01:03:14.940
Metstein, I think, is really good.

895
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:15.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

896
01:03:15.780 --> 01:03:18.300
Yeah, he sort of see series 7 specific, isn't it?

897
01:03:18.420 --> 01:03:27.780
My vote is for Saul, just not just for consistency of quality, but with the surprising things he does and the variation in what he achieves and subtleties.

898
01:03:27.900 --> 01:03:30.480
And yeah, and he's visually explorative and creative.

899
01:03:30.539 --> 01:03:31.500
But you're right.

900
01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:36.300
Everyone who you've mentioned there goes out of their way to not do what's expected on TV.

901
01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:39.539
It's the inverse of 1980s Doctor Who.

902
01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:43.559
In the moth ad era, it's a shock when something is not well directed.

903
01:03:43.619 --> 01:03:53.460
Yeah, and I would point towards the gangers, which I think is a bad script absolutely massacred by its director and cast who, you know, might also be massacred by their director.

904
01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:21.239
Is there a pivotal moment in this era that sticks in your mind, like that just either sums it up or just is just there that you kind of go, this is Doctor Who, for me, this is Matt Smith, this is it?

905
01:04:21.360 --> 01:04:28.739
Is it the cliffhanger in the middle of the angels story where the Graham Norton little animated?

906
01:04:31.199 --> 01:04:34.139
He's determined to ruin our show.

907
01:04:35.219 --> 01:04:37.980
Fish fingers encosted an Amelia.

908
01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:39.420
Absolutely nails it for me.

909
01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:42.719
And I thought, you're actually the doctor I've been waiting for since Tom.

910
01:04:42.780 --> 01:04:46.440
And that's just my little fanboy child's 12 year old person.

911
01:04:46.500 --> 01:04:47.880
I felt 12 again.

912
01:04:47.940 --> 01:04:50.760
The worst is we've already seen it.

913
01:04:50.820 --> 01:04:53.400
It's, um, and she plays it beautifully.

914
01:04:53.460 --> 01:04:55.260
Karen and Madame Kawalkian together.

915
01:04:55.320 --> 01:04:59.099
It's unforgivable for me and I almost stopped watching.

916
01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:06.420
I think it's incredible that the absolute best moments of the era are the very start and the very end.

917
01:05:06.480 --> 01:05:08.880
There's a lot of great stuff in between.

918
01:05:08.940 --> 01:05:17.099
But for me, the highlights of Matt Smith's time as the doctor. time of the doctor, and the 1st thing that he shoots time of angels.

919
01:05:17.159 --> 01:05:20.039
I think those episodes absolutely knock it out of the park.

920
01:05:20.820 --> 01:05:22.559
A product energy, isn't there, in time of angels?

921
01:05:22.619 --> 01:05:26.280
Yeah, there is Time of Angels, it roars with new style.

922
01:05:26.340 --> 01:05:30.119
I think I think Paul Cornell described Delta and the Bannerman as that one.

923
01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:32.039
It's true, too.

924
01:05:32.099 --> 01:05:33.119
It's true too, yeah.

925
01:05:33.179 --> 01:05:34.139
It's really incredible.

926
01:05:34.199 --> 01:05:48.059
It steps everything up in the writing and the production, and then you have a really successful era, and for my money, you come back and have the saddest and most emotional farewell to a doctor ever in time of the doctor.

927
01:05:48.119 --> 01:05:49.019
I think it's pretty amazing.

928
01:05:49.079 --> 01:05:49.800
They're tent poles.

929
01:05:49.860 --> 01:06:05.340
That moment where Clara kneels down in front of the doctor, because he can't pull the Christmas cracker, he's too weak because he's so old and she holds it and pulls it, like she's kind of looking after her grandfather or something.

930
01:06:05.400 --> 01:06:06.840
I think that's incredible.

931
01:06:06.900 --> 01:06:07.800
So good.

932
01:06:07.860 --> 01:06:11.099
And the scene where she's talking to the time lords through the crack.

933
01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:13.199
If you love him and you should.

934
01:06:13.260 --> 01:06:14.579
So good.

935
01:06:14.639 --> 01:06:23.880
But I think that I genuinely think that one thing you never put in a trap speech at the end of angels is pretty great.

936
01:06:23.940 --> 01:06:28.019
And it's one of those sort of let's showcase the doctor.

937
01:06:28.079 --> 01:06:35.519
I guess him telling the Atraxi to run at the end, that's deliberately engineered, touch the...

938
01:06:35.699 --> 01:06:37.860
Well, it's the moment he becomes the doctor.

939
01:06:37.980 --> 01:06:39.960
He puts the bow tie on.

940
01:06:40.019 --> 01:06:47.219
He steps forward through the montage of other doctors and says, I'm the doctor, basically run.

941
01:06:47.219 --> 01:06:50.219
And the delivery of that line is so perfect.

942
01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:56.099
It's really, you know, gave all these dead theps behind me. that's right.

943
01:06:57.539 --> 01:07:10.260
But yes, I'm going to go back to Richard and it's that fish, fingers and custard moment in that dialogue where he says, well, I'm talking about the crack in your wall. and just got to me like, you know, he became the doctor in that moment.

944
01:07:10.380 --> 01:07:13.139
That was just, I think, extraordinary.

945
01:07:13.139 --> 01:07:20.519
In that moment where he's being all light and childish with Amy and then he drops and says, that must be one hell of a scary crack in your wall.

946
01:07:20.940 --> 01:07:27.900
It's also a very kind of moffety thing to have him deduce that.

947
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:39.059
You know, that the doctor as conceived by Moffat and maybe Matt more than Peter is someone who makes deductions.

948
01:07:39.119 --> 01:07:47.579
And so he's deduced that the wall is the important thing because Amelia is so unfazed by all the other weird stuff. that's happening in that scene.

949
01:07:48.059 --> 01:07:50.039
Fraser Gregory.

950
01:07:50.099 --> 01:07:55.860
Says in 10 years time, what do you think your overriding memory impression of the era will be?

951
01:07:56.519 --> 01:07:58.139
Joy.

952
01:07:58.199 --> 01:08:00.719
Yeah, I think it'll still be highlight.

953
01:08:00.780 --> 01:08:04.199
Yeah, 3 years when you get utterly rely on Doctor Who.

954
01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:09.659
A narcic, creative, dangerous, on a spin.

955
01:08:09.719 --> 01:08:16.859
And we know what Mr. Moffat was going through in the middle of this, so and I definitely reflecting what we see on screen.

956
01:08:16.859 --> 01:08:18.840
Yeah, it's so much energy.

957
01:08:18.899 --> 01:08:24.420
And a climax in the 50th where all of fandom was celebrating the show.

958
01:08:24.420 --> 01:08:25.680
And the wider poppy shows.

959
01:08:25.739 --> 01:08:26.579
It was huge, wasn't it?

960
01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:33.060
And a really successful special with the day of the doctor and then a really beautiful goodbye with time of the doctor.

961
01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:34.439
I mean, poetic, isn't it?

962
01:08:34.500 --> 01:08:35.640
How did that go in the US?

963
01:08:35.699 --> 01:08:37.680
I wasn't on that one when we recorded it.

964
01:08:37.739 --> 01:08:42.420
How did Day of the Doctor do outside of the UK, Todd, as a...

965
01:08:42.479 --> 01:08:43.020
Do you remember?

966
01:08:43.079 --> 01:08:44.279
The figures for it?

967
01:08:44.340 --> 01:08:45.720
Broadly successful all around the world.

968
01:08:45.779 --> 01:08:49.199
Well, the Matt Smith era is the most successful in... it now?

969
01:08:49.260 --> 01:08:50.460
I thought that was tenant.

970
01:08:50.520 --> 01:08:52.260
No, no, absolutely not.

971
01:08:52.319 --> 01:08:52.680
Really?

972
01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:53.100
Yeah.

973
01:08:53.159 --> 01:08:54.239
Is that because of promotion?

974
01:08:54.300 --> 01:08:58.619
There was a real attempt to do it and to make it a jumping on point as well.

975
01:08:58.680 --> 01:09:02.279
You know, you've got an automatic jumping on point.

976
01:09:02.340 --> 01:09:08.939
Remember also the little thing where Amy narrated the premise of the show at the beginning of the thing.

977
01:09:09.000 --> 01:09:18.840
So it was very definitely intended to try and garner an audience and then you've got the shooting on location in the United States at the beginning of series 6 and so on.

978
01:09:18.899 --> 01:09:29.640
And it's an unremarked upon fact, the Doctor Who, during the Matt Smith era, moved more towards generic sci-fi fantasy stateside and provided, you know, not very much.

979
01:09:29.699 --> 01:09:34.260
It was still essentially Doctor Who-ish, but in that team of the doctor and Amy and Rory.

980
01:09:34.319 --> 01:09:40.020
You had a team of leads who you could transpose to something like supernatural and it would still work.

981
01:09:40.739 --> 01:09:46.800
Yes, I think my overall thing in 10 years time, it's the 4 of them.

982
01:09:46.859 --> 01:09:54.119
It's the doctor, Amy, Rory, and River, and finding out who she is and the bringing of that family together.

983
01:09:54.180 --> 01:09:56.100
That just sits with me.

984
01:09:56.159 --> 01:10:13.020
I think the fact that Amy and Maury dominate the era so much for 2.5 years, and Matt, Matt's boyish enthusiasm, the old man trapped in the young man's body, the way he portrays that, I think they're the things that, you know, plus that theme music at the beginning just is something that I sort of take with me.

985
01:10:13.380 --> 01:10:17.159
I think you'll still be talking about Lily and Cyril in 10 years time.

986
01:10:19.319 --> 01:10:21.899
Another final listener question.

987
01:10:21.960 --> 01:10:24.119
Nathan Botomley.

988
01:10:24.180 --> 01:10:26.520
So what is the best story of the Matt era?

989
01:10:26.579 --> 01:10:28.199
Is that what I ask?

990
01:10:28.260 --> 01:10:28.560
Yes.

991
01:10:28.619 --> 01:10:30.000
What is the best story?

992
01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:30.899
Very imaginative.

993
01:10:32.220 --> 01:10:34.500
Have you met your podcast?

994
01:10:35.460 --> 01:10:38.159
The best story of Matt Tera.

995
01:10:38.220 --> 01:10:45.840
I am going to say, is, I'm going to say that Pandora opens in the Big Bang.

996
01:10:46.380 --> 01:10:48.300
But I'm probably wrong.

997
01:10:48.359 --> 01:10:51.000
I mean, the angels two-parter is incredible.

998
01:10:51.060 --> 01:10:53.399
I think town called Mercy is incredible.

999
01:10:53.460 --> 01:11:14.279
But that two-parter and just everything that happens there and the way that it's so much about Moffatt's approach to the show as a series of stories that Doctor Who isn't a world where a time lord has adventures, it's a type of story that you can tell and that nearly becomes completely explicit in that two-parter.

1000
01:11:14.340 --> 01:11:19.739
It's very, very central to Moffatt's kind of conception of what he's doing when he's running the show.

1001
01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:22.439
So, and plus it's just really entertaining.

1002
01:11:22.500 --> 01:11:28.020
Time of angels, 2 passer, buy a hair, buy a hair on Pretty Angel Bob's head.

1003
01:11:29.039 --> 01:11:31.560
Victory of the Daleks, obviously.

1004
01:11:32.039 --> 01:11:35.279
So much fun. really liked it.

1005
01:11:37.319 --> 01:11:40.319
Has anyone mentioned angels in Manhattan?

1006
01:11:40.380 --> 01:11:41.159
Yeah, okay.

1007
01:11:41.279 --> 01:11:42.539
Maybe that one.

1008
01:11:42.600 --> 01:11:52.979
And not for the reasons I would have thought whilst watching it, but just in hindsight, there's a gorgeous sense of what we are now about to lose.

1009
01:11:53.039 --> 01:11:53.939
Yeah.

1010
01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:57.180
And it's got the centrality of storytelling as well.

1011
01:11:57.239 --> 01:11:58.500
It's really well told.

1012
01:11:58.560 --> 01:11:58.859
Yeah.

1013
01:11:58.920 --> 01:12:00.300
I think they're all great.

1014
01:12:00.359 --> 01:12:01.500
Like it's so hard to choose.

1015
01:12:01.560 --> 01:12:05.939
I keep going coming back to the 11th hour. which I adore.

1016
01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:08.520
It's perfect storytelling, isn't it?

1017
01:12:08.579 --> 01:12:10.920
You know, and a Christmas carol is at the other end of that season.

1018
01:12:10.979 --> 01:12:13.020
Even though I'm saying it's not my favourite.

1019
01:12:13.140 --> 01:12:16.859
The way it's written is just so incredibly clever.

1020
01:12:16.920 --> 01:12:24.000
We tend to bookend the Christmas stories, but they are possibly, if I had a favourite, yes, the snowman and Christmas Carol would be favourites.

1021
01:12:36.659 --> 01:12:41.640
I've got the Jenny Laird Award nominations, if there's any, to be given to anyone.

1022
01:12:41.699 --> 01:12:43.140
How many children did you mention?

1023
01:12:43.319 --> 01:12:45.060
Thank you, Richard.

1024
01:12:45.119 --> 01:12:50.460
We'll go with that for me, although it was going to be something to do with the direction of nightmare in silver, I think.

1025
01:12:51.239 --> 01:12:54.600
Oh, no, it's shockingly poorly directed, really quite amateu-ish.

1026
01:12:54.720 --> 01:13:01.380
I think maybe that is it, that you give him a really good director for his 1st story.

1027
01:13:01.500 --> 01:13:09.359
I'm talking gamen, and then Gaiman starts to develop the feeling that this is the sort of thing that Doctor Who can routinely do.

1028
01:13:09.359 --> 01:13:21.060
And then you give this guy the job of doing the 2nd Neil Gaiman script, which is not as strong as the 1st one and then is completely blown out of the water by how amateurishly it's directed.

1029
01:13:21.119 --> 01:13:24.539
It's a big, big, weird creative choice.

1030
01:13:24.600 --> 01:13:27.659
I think the entirety of the gangers 2 parter.

1031
01:13:27.720 --> 01:13:29.159
It just doesn't sit well with me.

1032
01:13:29.220 --> 01:13:33.479
There's kernels of good ideas in there, which don't go anywhere.

1033
01:13:33.539 --> 01:13:40.079
The performances are all really off and I've seen some of those performance in other roles and they've been absolutely fine.

1034
01:13:40.140 --> 01:13:42.840
I can only imagine it's the direction.

1035
01:13:42.899 --> 01:13:47.579
But it's weird performance ticks and the whole thing is an unsettling mess.

1036
01:13:47.640 --> 01:13:51.659
The melange, isn't it, of kernel mustard in the spa with the latex dildo?

1037
01:13:51.720 --> 01:13:53.460
Nothing is coming together well.

1038
01:13:53.520 --> 01:13:55.380
Did you use the D word?

1039
01:13:55.439 --> 01:13:56.100
Possibly.

1040
01:13:56.699 --> 01:14:01.859
I know what your Jenny Laird award is, besides the prevalence child actors.

1041
01:14:01.920 --> 01:14:04.680
It's the nudity in time of God.

1042
01:14:04.800 --> 01:14:09.239
Oh, the nudity in the time of the doctor. doesn't, it's a bit...

1043
01:14:09.300 --> 01:14:10.500
I didn't see it.

1044
01:14:10.560 --> 01:14:10.979
Yeah.

1045
01:14:11.039 --> 01:14:12.479
Is it cut out?

1046
01:14:12.539 --> 01:14:16.500
It's also the appalling wig they put on Matt because now I've seen it.

1047
01:14:16.560 --> 01:14:18.300
I can't unsee it. you know what I mean?

1048
01:14:18.359 --> 01:14:20.520
Like I just keep looking, that's not his hair.

1049
01:14:20.579 --> 01:14:23.159
That's not right. about Amy's hair at the end?

1050
01:14:23.220 --> 01:14:24.779
That's a wig as well.

1051
01:14:24.840 --> 01:14:25.680
That's her choice.

1052
01:14:25.800 --> 01:14:27.479
Amy's choice.

1053
01:14:27.539 --> 01:14:30.180
It does feel very true Ronnie's Christmas special, doesn't it?

1054
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:31.199
Once they get their wigs out.

1055
01:14:31.260 --> 01:14:32.699
Where is this going to go?

1056
01:14:32.760 --> 01:14:40.500
Well, from the worst to the best, or our Bonnie Langford, for the most startling discovery or moment in this entire era.

1057
01:14:40.560 --> 01:14:43.380
I think I'm going to give it to Nick Curran.

1058
01:14:43.500 --> 01:14:51.119
I'm going to give it to Nick Curran because he does some Sherlock, I think, as well, and he establishes the visual style of that show.

1059
01:14:51.180 --> 01:14:52.920
I think he's amazing.

1060
01:14:52.979 --> 01:14:57.600
He's the one possible person that you could have got back to do the day of the doctor.

1061
01:14:57.659 --> 01:15:01.260
That was absolutely the right choice because that was such an important episode.

1062
01:15:01.319 --> 01:15:03.600
He's really really good.

1063
01:15:03.659 --> 01:15:12.420
And I think that he introduces something completely novel in the way that the god complex is told.

1064
01:15:12.479 --> 01:15:20.460
I think that Doctor Who has never been as visually adventurous as that, not even in his previous story, which is also very stylish.

1065
01:15:20.520 --> 01:15:22.319
But yeah, he's incredible.

1066
01:15:22.380 --> 01:15:27.720
I might give the Bonnie Langford to James Corden because he is extremely marmite.

1067
01:15:27.899 --> 01:15:39.119
Maybe more on the dislike than the like side for a lot of people, but I think that those 2 episodes, closing time in the lodger, give him a sympathetic character to play and he actually rises to the occasion.

1068
01:15:39.180 --> 01:15:42.180
He's good He's a good performer and he plays very, very well.

1069
01:15:42.239 --> 01:15:49.260
You know, and we have to also always remember that the actor is not the personality of the, you know, the performer.

1070
01:15:49.319 --> 01:15:55.079
They are different species and his work should not be IOD'd with who he is as a person.

1071
01:15:55.140 --> 01:15:59.880
Um, because then we wouldn't really like many people, would we?

1072
01:16:00.180 --> 01:16:11.039
Yeah, and to give Matt his due, he's a very generous leading man. see him giving space to James Corden to build that relationship between them because the episode specifically the lodger relies on that.

1073
01:16:11.100 --> 01:16:16.500
And he's smart enough to know that always reflects well on him because those silent moments you're actually watching the doctor.

1074
01:16:16.560 --> 01:16:18.420
So you go back to, oh, you're quiet.

1075
01:16:18.479 --> 01:16:19.199
I'm going to look at you.

1076
01:16:19.439 --> 01:16:22.979
Mine would be Caitlin, younger, Amelia.

1077
01:16:23.039 --> 01:16:24.479
She's just adorable.

1078
01:16:24.539 --> 01:16:26.340
You just, that was mine.

1079
01:16:26.399 --> 01:16:27.960
Well, I don't have it too.

1080
01:16:28.020 --> 01:16:28.800
We can share.

1081
01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:30.000
You can have Stormageddon.

1082
01:16:30.180 --> 01:16:33.359
You can have the slippers and I'll have the dressing gown.

1083
01:16:33.420 --> 01:16:35.460
We can both cosplay her.

1084
01:16:35.460 --> 01:16:39.960
And otherwise as an umbrella, it's the discovery of Saul, Mr. Metstein.

1085
01:16:40.020 --> 01:16:40.859
Just delightful.

1086
01:16:40.920 --> 01:16:42.960
Yeah, we've got a big episode to direct.

1087
01:16:43.020 --> 01:16:43.920
Better call Saul.

1088
01:16:44.100 --> 01:16:45.899
Boom Tish.

1089
01:16:45.960 --> 01:16:47.279
Yeah, Caitlin.

1090
01:16:47.340 --> 01:17:01.439
Like if she hadn't worked at the beginning of that episode. then and obviously matters well, but I wanted the moment that it goes from young Amelia to Amy, I just went, oh, I did.

1091
01:17:01.439 --> 01:17:02.579
I did that as well at the time.

1092
01:17:02.699 --> 01:17:03.659
I did at the time.

1093
01:17:03.720 --> 01:17:06.359
I just thought, I want that character.

1094
01:17:06.420 --> 01:17:07.859
This is not what I'm getting.

1095
01:17:07.920 --> 01:17:12.779
Anyway, that's my one moment in that 11th hour, but anyway.

1096
01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:14.520
That's for history.

1097
01:17:14.579 --> 01:17:16.380
You see Amy all the way through, don't you?

1098
01:17:16.439 --> 01:17:23.520
See young Amy, Karen Gill and Amy, old Amy, and the girl who waited, and then the horrible vision of future with Grandma Etta.

1099
01:17:25.199 --> 01:17:27.300
That will be coming round for you.

1100
01:17:29.100 --> 01:17:30.840
Moving forward.

1101
01:17:30.899 --> 01:17:38.579
Series 8 Thoughts, expectations, discoveries, where does it sit with you as we embark on this next journey?

1102
01:17:40.140 --> 01:17:57.239
I think series 8 is Moffat's most RTD style series and it does start to create a world for Jenna to inhabit, like it starts to kind of do something about her character.

1103
01:17:57.300 --> 01:18:13.560
I also think that Moffatt ups his game a bit because he's got Capoldi and he doesn't want to embarrass himself or Capoldi after, you know, actually getting him, which I think was a bit of a coup, even though he's the most tragic fanboy in human history.

1104
01:18:15.359 --> 01:18:17.220
Yeah, that's right.

1105
01:18:17.279 --> 01:18:21.239
It's episode 253 of flight through entirety.

1106
01:18:22.500 --> 01:18:24.899
So I'm looking forward to it.

1107
01:18:24.960 --> 01:18:26.279
I think it's going to be really interesting.

1108
01:18:26.340 --> 01:18:29.159
I am less certain about series nine.

1109
01:18:29.220 --> 01:18:34.859
I'm actually looking forward to going back and looking at that again because I haven't been back there and so I don't really know what I think of it.

1110
01:18:34.920 --> 01:18:38.880
I think series 8 is going to be better than I think it is, and I think it's pretty good.

1111
01:18:40.079 --> 01:18:57.720
I'm with you in that I think series 8 is a bit criminally underlooked by others, maybe because of a few faults that sort of beacon out or glare out, but I actually think that it's actually pretty solid.

1112
01:18:57.840 --> 01:19:00.899
There's some missteps, but I think it's terribly underrated.

1113
01:19:00.899 --> 01:19:14.819
I'm just looking forward to seeing what those missteps are and also what they're doing with the character of the doctor, which I didn't sit well with me at the time, even though I actually quite like the final journey, but that's for another time.

1114
01:19:14.880 --> 01:19:23.579
So seriously, it's going to be really interesting. absolutely everything you've said, yeah, but I'm be curious to see how he can top this.

1115
01:19:23.640 --> 01:19:34.560
And by topping, I just mean vary from it because there's so many wildly cearing, not always successful, but certainly sitting on that roller coaster is not doll.

1116
01:19:34.619 --> 01:19:39.779
So, sorry, journey to the TARDIS, but you know, I sort of, that was a bathroom break for me.

1117
01:19:39.840 --> 01:19:45.779
But otherwise, yeah, I'm really interested to see, and again, I haven't watched it since it was shown.

1118
01:19:45.840 --> 01:19:49.079
So how that's going to flow for us all.

1119
01:19:49.140 --> 01:19:50.760
Very excited about Capaldi.

1120
01:19:50.819 --> 01:19:54.659
Do you remember the bars of, Oh, thank goodness, it's him.

1121
01:19:54.720 --> 01:19:57.060
Yeah. when the announcement came through.

1122
01:19:57.119 --> 01:20:00.960
Did you feel like that, Todd, when you heard Capaldi's announced?

1123
01:20:01.020 --> 01:20:02.460
Yeah, bit of a shrug from my end.

1124
01:20:02.520 --> 01:20:04.800
No, I just spent...

1125
01:20:04.859 --> 01:20:08.579
I just didn't, it was sort of like, it was expected to be him.

1126
01:20:08.640 --> 01:20:09.779
Was it?

1127
01:20:09.779 --> 01:20:11.819
That's what I felt in the days later.

1128
01:20:11.819 --> 01:20:13.140
It was sort of like that was the name.

1129
01:20:13.199 --> 01:20:15.659
And so then it was like, oh, okay.

1130
01:20:15.720 --> 01:20:17.279
Thank goodness it is.

1131
01:20:17.340 --> 01:20:20.159
Like, I was a big fan of the thick of it.

1132
01:20:20.220 --> 01:20:22.560
I was definitely into...

1133
01:20:22.560 --> 01:20:24.420
Yeah, absolutely right.

1134
01:20:24.479 --> 01:20:26.039
All right, my final question.

1135
01:20:26.100 --> 01:20:27.960
Snog, Mario, void.

1136
01:20:28.020 --> 01:20:29.579
Matt Smith.

1137
01:20:29.640 --> 01:20:32.640
John Hurt, David Tennant.

1138
01:20:32.699 --> 01:20:36.600
Um, I'm gonna snog Matt Smith.

1139
01:20:36.659 --> 01:20:38.880
I am definitely going to marry John Hurt.

1140
01:20:38.939 --> 01:20:39.840
Yeah.

1141
01:20:39.899 --> 01:20:44.340
Um, but we'll avoid takeaway Chinese food, obviously.

1142
01:20:44.399 --> 01:20:48.420
And I'm going to avoid David Tennant. the teeth.

1143
01:20:49.619 --> 01:20:51.960
Yeah, I'll avoid all of them.

1144
01:20:52.020 --> 01:20:53.699
My heart still belongs to John Pertway.

1145
01:20:53.760 --> 01:20:57.960
I couldn't agree more, although Sean's pretty good runner up these days.

1146
01:20:58.680 --> 01:21:01.560
I like David Tennant.

1147
01:21:01.619 --> 01:21:13.260
I going out on a limb here less and less with every passing year, and yet I was delighted to see him at the end of the season we've just seen in his motley crew mix-up, little suit, doing his teeth thing.

1148
01:21:13.319 --> 01:21:15.060
He really can carry the energy.

1149
01:21:15.119 --> 01:21:28.680
He's completely convincing as a doctor by to find him so actively in what he does in a way that totally different that I found Matt completely natural, slightly panicked, a very perfect.

1150
01:21:28.739 --> 01:21:30.479
He is the perfect era.

1151
01:21:30.539 --> 01:21:31.979
Well, I marry Matt.

1152
01:21:32.039 --> 01:21:42.420
I've also seen Matt naked in several interviews, in several interviews in several, that, no, that's in my head in several photos and I'm perfectly happy to have a long term with Matt following that.

1153
01:21:42.479 --> 01:21:45.180
And also he really knows how to kick balls.

1154
01:21:45.899 --> 01:21:51.420
So after that, sportingly, who are we avoiding?

1155
01:21:51.479 --> 01:21:55.079
John Hurt would be a lot of fun to hang out with as well.

1156
01:21:55.260 --> 01:21:56.159
It's funny, isn't it?

1157
01:21:56.220 --> 01:22:04.979
Because David Tennant is the acme of what I think the general public see the doctor as and like Peter Poggy may be for fans, what they say.

1158
01:22:05.039 --> 01:22:07.079
And Matt Smith somehow manages to be both.

1159
01:22:07.140 --> 01:22:08.460
Exactly right.

1160
01:22:34.020 --> 01:22:37.500
Well, there, sir, that's all we have time for now.

1161
01:22:37.619 --> 01:22:43.859
We'll be back later in the year to group the mighty eyebrows of Peter Capaldi in our coverage of Series 8.

1162
01:22:44.100 --> 01:23:01.800
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at flights for entirety on Facebook, at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody interterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek Project.

1163
01:23:02.159 --> 01:23:06.779
Until next time, we'll always remember when the doctor was Matt.

1164
01:23:06.840 --> 01:23:09.000
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1165
01:23:09.060 --> 01:23:11.399
See you soon Raggedy man, good night.

1166
01:23:11.460 --> 01:23:14.100
And happy bond fingering, if you so choose.

1167
01:23:20.159 --> 01:23:25.140
That was Flight to Entirety, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffith, and Richard Stone.

1168
01:23:25.199 --> 01:23:27.539
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lowe.

1169
01:23:27.600 --> 01:23:35.100
This episode, comedy to high drama, was recorded on the 12th of December 2022 and released on New Year's Day, 2023.

1170
01:23:38.220 --> 01:23:44.640
We're taking some time off now to start work on our coverage of the Capoli era, and we'll be back in your podcatcher in April.

1171
01:23:44.699 --> 01:23:50.460
But let's remember, the real podcast was always the friends we made along the way.

1172
01:23:50.520 --> 01:23:51.119
See you soon.

1173
01:23:54.720 --> 01:24:07.739
Let's move on to, well, actually, before we move on, Matt's costume does change, this season from Raggedy Man in towards the end of this season, is it closing time or is it before then that it changes?

1174
01:24:07.859 --> 01:24:11.340
No, no, it actually changes halfway through series seven.

1175
01:24:11.399 --> 01:24:13.079
No, he means the big brown coast and everything.

1176
01:24:13.140 --> 01:24:14.100
The big green coat.

1177
01:24:14.220 --> 01:24:16.140
Yeah, he puts on one of those.

1178
01:24:16.439 --> 01:24:20.640
They used to be able to buy them in the 80s at op shops that were German.

1179
01:24:20.939 --> 01:24:22.319
No, let's okay, uniform coat.

1180
01:24:22.380 --> 01:24:22.979
Let's scrub that.

1181
01:24:23.039 --> 01:24:24.899
I'll talk about Matt's outfit.

1182
01:24:25.319 --> 01:24:32.819
All I would say is I like the costume change because again, they're doing things that young fans could actually go to an op shop and buy.

1183
01:24:32.819 --> 01:24:40.079
And those cavalry coats were around, you know, back in the 90s in gray and that colour green.

1184
01:24:40.140 --> 01:24:47.699
So whoever was costuming for this one, I don't recall who that was, but I like that sense of the kids can actually do this.

1185
01:24:47.760 --> 01:24:51.300
It really, really works nicely in the same way that Tom's one did.

1186
01:24:51.359 --> 01:24:56.520
It brings an immediacy to the audience and lets them be the doctor in a lovely way.

1187
01:24:56.579 --> 01:24:59.100
Well, you can get question mark pullovers at any op shop.

1188
01:25:02.159 --> 01:25:02.579
All right.

1189
01:25:02.640 --> 01:25:04.680
Thanks for the sympathy laugh, Nathan.

1190
01:25:04.800 --> 01:25:06.779
That got a side.

1191
01:25:06.840 --> 01:25:11.100
That was to go into a, it's a, uh, now we're just putting interstitial in there.

1192
01:25:11.159 --> 01:25:12.420
I've got a sigh.

1193
01:25:12.479 --> 01:25:14.279
They got a sigh of memory there, didn't it?

1194
01:25:14.340 --> 01:25:14.699
Yeah.

1195
01:25:17.760 --> 01:25:20.159
Okay, series, let's go to series seven.

1196
01:25:20.220 --> 01:25:22.800
Where do we sit with everything now?

1197
01:25:22.859 --> 01:25:23.699
How do we feel about it?