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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:32:54

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Hello, De Lister, and welcome back to Flight for Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that could really go for a big bowl of pigs fry right now.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Simon.

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I'm Peter.

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Well, it happens to all of us eventually.

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The handsome young doctor is suddenly old, grumpy, and Scottish with a predilection for brutal quips that probably still keeps Rebecca Front up at night.

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It's time to welcome Peter Capoldi to the stage as we discuss deep breaths.

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Where were we when we first saw this?

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Were we at an event?

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State Theatre?

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We were at the State Theatre, which has hosted many important life events.

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So this is the 2nd most important event held there.

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Is that correct?

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Oh, we saw Julie Andrews there.

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And Curry Fisher. and David Attenborough and Carrie Fisher.

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Yes.

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Okay, so it's now going down the list.

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Are you talking about Simon's wedding or deep breath?

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So we were all there.

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And I think there were people there that we knew but didn't know were going there.

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Well, of course, because it was a big event.

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And was it both Capaldi and Jenner, were they both there?

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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They're both there.

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And how did you feel afterwards?

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What was your feeling at the end of this episode?

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It was, are they really going for that music over the title?

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Yes, was that really the opening credits?

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I seem to recall, we, Todd, you and I came out.

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When was Brian and I came out and said we really liked it?

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And a couple of people said they didn't.

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I think James sort of was a bit nonplused. wasn't I uneasy?

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Don't I ever...

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New Doctor Who.

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You and I, I was uneasy about the fact that they made him unlikeable, that he's old and would people accept that?

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And I remember sitting in the audience watching it going, oh, they're going for that.

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Oh, in the moments where he's not likeable and like, am I a good man or I don't even know if that's mentioned.

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I know it is.

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But I just, I was concerned.

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Yes, well, you and I looked at each other.

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Are they doing Colin Baker again?

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But trying to do it properly.

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I am vastly amused by the fact that he looked at him and said they've made him old considering that we are all roughly his age now.

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No, he's older than us.

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He's 55.

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I mean, you know, we're early 50s.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Well, very early 15.

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Some of us are earlier than others.

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You can talk something.

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I wasn't able to share that experience because I was living in London at the time and I saw it in a cinema in Clapham with Poor Masters and Matt Jones.

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Oh, wow, okay.

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And yeah, I had a pretty good response to it.

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I actually think I fell asleep for 5 minutes, not through any fault of the episode because it was quite late.

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I think we were seeing it at night.

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But I came away thinking, yeah, okay, this is not the Matt Smith era, but it might be something new and different.

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It's interesting, isn't it?

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Because he does obviously 2 episodes introducing a new doctor.

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And because the 11th hour is so spectacularly polished and, you know, kind of what he's been planning since he was 12 to do when he introduces his 1st new doctor.

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So this, the fact that this is more of a normal episode in a way, is a slight disappointment.

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It's not the clever kind of puzzle box that...

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Yeah, it doesn't have that spectaculenness of the 11th hour.

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For me, it reminded me actually of the Christmas invasion when I was watching it last night, very, very similar, very similar start, the way he arrives and comes out of the Tartars and says something strange to these people who already know him, and one of whom claims not to know who the hell this person is, which means she's a bit of an idiot, frankly, because she's part of that gang.

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But what struck me last night.

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The main thing that struck me last night when I was watching it was the fact that it's almost like all the way through the episode they're panicking about the fact that they've cast someone who's suddenly quite a bit older than the other doctors we've had.

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And they're almost overcompensating for that, especially with a phone call at the end.

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That's a good point.

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I never really thought about that.

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I just thought it sat uncomfortably with me.

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That phone call at the end, I think, I think is a mistake if you want to actually get people to accept an older doctor.

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I adore it.

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Like I do actually, I'm very moved by it and it's never been done before, but I guess I really wanted more of an episode where there's a point where the companion suddenly says, right, I'm with you, right?

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And there's no going back.

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You know, when he grabs her hand later in the episode.

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Suddenly that's the turning and they're going to be together.

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Not questioning.

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And I think, well, looking back on the series, you know, with Colin Baker, there was a mistake there that it was like, you know, we're questioning, she couldn't accept him.

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If you look at something like robot, you know, Sarah accepts the doctor straight away, not saying that necessarily needed to happen, but yes, we're panicking that we've cast an order doctor, we're highlighting that fact, you know, this episode got 9.170000 viewers, it's his highest rated episode, number 2 of the week, the only new series doctor not to get over 10000000 or hit number one in their run, okay, for the week.

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And, you know, we've had a lot of good will.

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You know, people have kept with the series up to the 50th.

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There's been that buildup.

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You know, shows last for 7 or 8 years generally, here's a point where we don't have to, the general public don't have to stay with the show, right?

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And they will stay with the show this year.

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The ratings will be very similar, but at the end of this year, there's suddenly a drop off.

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I think tackling the fact that the doctor's been cast older by making Clara weird about it is a wrong headed approach.

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I think she should have felt protective and worried about him in the same way that, as you mentioned, Todd.

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Sarah Jane did in Robot, but she accepted the doctor completely.

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I think, um, she's kind of a bitch about it actually.

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And it doesn't really work for Clara's character.

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It gets you offside with the audience.

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I think, though, that the reason for that phone call can't just have been because we needed to convince an audience that was used to pretty young men like Tennant and Smith.

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I don't think that's the primary reason, but I... the way it's done, though.

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Well, not the phone call itself, but what they say in the phone.

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It's an acknowledgement of that kind of fandom that really only came aboard because David Tennant and Matt Smith were young and hot.

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I think, though, what we have now is a doctor who won't express his feelings, who isn't as open as Matt Smith, who himself was not that open as the doctor, he was constantly keeping secrets and things, but I don't think you could have had Capaldi deliver those lines, and you had to give them to someone else to deliver.

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So we needed to hear that the doctor was scared, but we couldn't possibly have heard Capoldi say that.

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Yeah, no, I think it was a great idea.

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I love the phone call.

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I think, you know, this is the 1st time we've ever had that sort of, you know, reaching back.

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And it's such a great idea.

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And for that, I applaud it.

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I suppose I'm just talking about the, it's just another little tiny thing that there just seems to be this overall slight panic.

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It's not the phone call itself that does that.

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It's that and other things as well.

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I just remember in the audience, all the fangirls sighing and sort of sobbing because it was Matt Smith.

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I remember that moment and I just thought this is not good.

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Yeah, picking up on what you said, Peter.

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It's like he's resentful.

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Yeah, and that line, please tell me I didn't get old, anything but old.

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I mean, I'm not sure what we were meant to take away from that.

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It just feels slightly insulting to Peter Capaldi really.

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And he seems emasculated by it as well.

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Like, that's the moment that he's on the back foot.

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And in a way, he's got to be on the back foot because he's hoping that Clara will stay with him.

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But it does make him seem like a bit of a sad old man.

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Whereas before then, like, we talk about Matt Smith's physical energy in his physicality and Capaldi's physicality is quite different, but he also is someone who uses weird hand gestures to emphasise the way he speaks, who runs like an idiot, you know, like, like he's got a real physical energy and we've seen him jumping off roofs and through trees and off bridges and stuff.

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You know, he's been doing the thing.

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I don't know.

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I think maybe, yeah, there...

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He's not behaving like an old man.

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No, that's right. until the very end.

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Of course, Saul Moffat working through his own issues of being old and creaky and Scottish.

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The projection.

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His hair is appalling.

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I really hate this short hair.

129
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It doesn't work on Peter Capaldi.

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I think he's just come off doing the Musketeers show where he's played a villain for the last year and I think the hair was longer.

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I may be wrong with that.

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No, but it's like it's been chopped to make a difference between that and this.

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Obviously, I adore the fact that over time it grows, and the character grows, and the warmth comes in, and you get the humour and all that.

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I see a very similar journey to the Pertwee doctor who has really short hair.

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I see all those...

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As a same hair.

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As a buffon.

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And as a fan, I just love the journey that this doctor goes on, but it just at this point worries me so much that he's an old man in those aspects and not as likeable, you know?

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But having said that, I think there's a lot of humour in this.

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And I think that my general impression at the time was that he's really not likeable, but he actually actually is quite likeable in a lot of this.

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There's scenes that sort of are different.

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Like somewhere he's quite, I'm not going to say nasty, but, you know, nastier, not as warm.

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Isn't more of an edge?

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Yeah.

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Next week, I think they get it completely wrong and he's just, they just make him too horrible, right?

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And I don't think it's for the 3rd episode where they actually get a balance of it really right.

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I think it would have been better had there been a Peter Capaldi shaped time tunnel.

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That would have made everything better.

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Well, let's talk about that.

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The title sequence.

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I actually think the 1st moments of the title sequence are wonderful until it gets to the halfway point, and then I think it all falls apart.

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I think the whole title sequence is a monstrous debacle, and I was bitterly disappointed at the time that they hadn't done a newer version of the series 7B. For a moment in time, we had an actually good title sequence in the program, and then they threw it all away.

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Oh, I said on our last retrospective that unfortunately every time they revamp the titles and the theme music, they each get a little bit worse.

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It's the same with the titles here, but the theme music is horrible.

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It sounds like one of those awful variations on a themes.

156
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Yes.

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That's what it reminded me of.

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It reminded me of like Dominic Glynn's variation.

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That was probably the good one.

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It was the good one.

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It was the last Marquez one.

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Like, I totally agree with you.

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I think the theme music is just the worst.

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It's only good when he does the guitar riffs in, is it listen, that they have the guitars.

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Yeah, maybe.

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And it's sort of like, why couldn't you have just kept that heavy guitar stuff and just jettison this horrible pingy...

167
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I don't know why showrunners in Doctor Who feel like they constantly have to change the opening titles and the theme music.

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That was not a feature of the original program.

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It changed.

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No, it changed very infrequently.

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It only feels like it was frequent because.

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It fell further apart because we were 12.

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Maybe.

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Well, not really.

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There are a lot more episodes as well.

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And so that time tunnel sequence lasted 6 whole seasons, whereas now every time, yeah, every time there's a new doctor or which is fairly frequently or just to change like the 50th anniversary, they change the theme, they change the titles and it's unsettling.

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They could have kept a variation of the Matt Smith, 7B titles.

178
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That's what they should have done.

179
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Yeah, which I really hate.

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Which I don't like either, no, in hindsight.

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No, no, the only decent...

182
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So I remember being shocked because, of course, it was a fan concept, which is still up on YouTube.

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I think probably.

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And so I had seen it before.

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And so when I came in and saw that title sequence, which I actually quite liked, because if you're going to do the travel in time thing, I think representing that with clockwork.

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Like I approve of that.

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I think that's kind of cool.

188
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Oh, I agree, because I'd seen the thin one.

189
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Didn't they get him into?

191
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I think he does it.

192
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Yeah, they didn't just steal it.

193
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They asked him to come and do it.

194
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It's a bit generic time machiney.

195
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Yeah, so it's too HG Wellsey.

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It's the telling movie.

197
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It should have been the opening credits to the telly movie.

198
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Yeah, yeah.

199
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Actually, it is kind of a bit tell movie.

200
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We wouldn't have been surprised.

201
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Yeah, the telly movie.

202
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But I think it's an attempt to do something different, and I don't think it fails, and I kind of think there's stuff in the version of the soundtrack that reinforces those clanking gears and things.

203
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So I don't mind that.

204
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But yeah, it's not sort of terrifically great, is it?

205
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Talking of terrifically great.

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Let's talk about the opening sequence where the doctor's TARDIS is spat out of the dinosaur and we get our regular gang to come and meet the doctor.

207
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What do we think of that?

208
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I always felt that it was a bit forced watching it again.

209
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Yes, I would agree, and I would say it's not terrifically great.

210
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I think the fact that Peter Paldi has some work to do in this episode to land his performance, is actually down to that opening sequence, which is written in that very manic Matt Smith way, which I know is what's intended, but I think he's wrongfooted by it.

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I don't think that's his wheelhouse.

212
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And so it comes across as a little bit forced.

213
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The dialogue is not really up to the moth at standard we're expecting.

214
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Here we go again.

215
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Like, she says, here we go again.

216
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What does that even mean?

217
00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:06.299
And I just went, have you ever been at a regeneration?

218
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:07.679
Have you ever been with another doctor?

219
00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:10.500
Like it just didn't sit well with me those lines?

220
00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:14.879
Like it was like, oh, we're just going to use the brigadiers lines and sort of tag it on.

221
00:15:14.940 --> 00:15:16.019
I know I'm picking it here.

222
00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:20.940
No, no, but hold the green one, the not green one, the asking questions one. all a little bit tired.

223
00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:25.679
Yeah, I do like the, well, you're both very similar heights. line.

224
00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:27.840
I think that there's some proper delivery.

225
00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:29.460
I think the problem is just goes on too long.

226
00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:30.419
It's just too long.

227
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:37.620
There's something also weird where there's 3 shots that are either entirely or partly in slow motion.

228
00:15:37.620 --> 00:15:40.860
And I can't tell, is it because they don't have coverage?

229
00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:42.299
It looks really inept, actually.

230
00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:49.019
There's one scene where we cut back to the doctor and he's in slow motion for no reason to stretch out a shot.

231
00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:53.399
Yeah, yeah, I don't know what it is and it just looks like they didn't quite have the coverage, did they?

232
00:15:53.460 --> 00:16:00.120
Because that is a very obvious set down at the base of the Thames there with a couple of widescreen CGI shots thrown in.

233
00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:04.200
And you're right, Simon, that the pace of the scene is a little bit off.

234
00:16:04.259 --> 00:16:07.200
I generally like the more measured pace of this episode.

235
00:16:07.259 --> 00:16:14.039
Now, it's 78 minutes, which is that the longest Doctor Who episode ever beyond the 5 doctors.

236
00:16:14.100 --> 00:16:17.580
And so it feels like a telemovie and it's got a telemovie's pacing.

237
00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:28.919
I will say, though, that even though the dialogue in this scene doesn't land, it paves the way for don't look in that mirror, it's absolutely furious, which is brilliant. love that line.

238
00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:37.019
The moment they're in that bedroom, like straight after the credits, it just begins to pick up and I just begin to love it.

239
00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:49.019
But it's lines like that that make it less like Colin and a better version of Colin because basically he's insulting himself rather than the problem with the twin dilemma is that Colin feels he can do no wrong.

240
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:50.399
He's insulting Perry.

241
00:16:50.460 --> 00:16:52.200
Perry, yes, rather than himself.

242
00:16:52.259 --> 00:16:53.399
It's really quite good.

243
00:16:53.460 --> 00:16:56.639
But what about the beautifully high definition Tyrannosaurus Rex?

244
00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:00.720
It's kind of like saying stuff you invasion of the dinosaurs. n, n, n, n, n?

245
00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:11.519
But it's so weird too, because it's kind of as if he's written this scene where the TARDIS gets coughed up by a T-Rex and someone has said to him, you do realise they're not that big.

246
00:17:12.180 --> 00:17:15.359
They're not as tall as St.

247
00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:16.920
Paul's Cathedral. yeah.

248
00:17:16.980 --> 00:17:20.759
No, well, you can see it growling at a big band.

249
00:17:20.819 --> 00:17:24.960
In fact, that opening shot is wonderful because all you see is the T-Rex.

250
00:17:25.019 --> 00:17:30.119
Then you hear Big Ben strike, then you see the clock tower, which I just think is really terrific.

251
00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:34.559
So suddenly, 0 gosh, we're in we're in London with a dinosaur, which is pretty awesome.

252
00:17:34.619 --> 00:17:40.559
And then there's those sort of lines that are doing this at a repair job, which are in themselves funny.

253
00:17:40.619 --> 00:17:41.400
So it's okay.

254
00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:47.640
All of that thing where Manavastra says she hasn't seen anything like it since she was a little girl.

255
00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:49.619
I think is all really quite terrific.

256
00:17:49.740 --> 00:17:51.000
Yes.

257
00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:56.160
Does anyone else think that the goo on the tartars looks less like the insides of a dinosaur and more like a hollow of semen?

258
00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:58.200
Oh, no.

259
00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:00.779
I've never actually thought about that ever.

260
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.700
No, that's ruined it for everyone.

261
00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:06.420
Sorry.

262
00:18:06.420 --> 00:18:10.980
It's a Bonnie Langford ward from those...

263
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:11.880
Let me get this straight.

264
00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:14.759
Your takeaway from that scene was the dinosaur came on the TARDS.

265
00:18:14.819 --> 00:18:17.039
It's a lady dinosaur anyway.

266
00:18:17.099 --> 00:18:18.480
They can still happen.

267
00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:22.380
I guess we'll be cutting that out.

268
00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:26.460
But there's a lot of human masking some quite dark moments.

269
00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:30.180
He's actually taking a turn for a much darker tone, generally.

270
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:31.920
It's not just because, you know, everything's at night.

271
00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:34.259
Most of it's at night and it's all quite dimly lit.

272
00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:42.000
There is a more a great sense of foreboding than I think compared to something like the 11th hour or a lot of the Met Smith era, actually, don't you think?

273
00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:43.440
I mean, tenant era.

274
00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:51.420
I think that that shot of the dinosaur catching fire is really good and really kind of terrible.

275
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:52.680
Like, it's awful.

276
00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:57.900
It's so affecting, especially since, like, Peter's running on the rooftops and calling out to her and it's actually quite funny.

277
00:18:58.019 --> 00:18:59.279
He's being super silly.

278
00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:01.799
He's doing all the hand gestures, all of that sort of stuff.

279
00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:06.359
And promising that, yeah, see, that's the problem, isn't it?

280
00:19:06.420 --> 00:19:08.759
The moment the doctor promises that he'll get you home safe.

281
00:19:08.819 --> 00:19:10.259
Watch out.

282
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:11.400
Yeah, yeah, they're in trouble.

283
00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:12.839
That's where affects work, isn't it?

284
00:19:12.900 --> 00:19:13.920
It's in service to the story.

285
00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:16.259
The effects actually make you feel sorry for the dinosaur.

286
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:17.099
Yeah, yes.

287
00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:24.240
And and then the shot, you know, where we're on the bridge and all you can see is this sort of wall of smoke and flame.

288
00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:25.680
Burning dinosaurs.

289
00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:27.599
Yeah, it's really, it's pretty effective.

290
00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:32.819
It is sad, but then it's kind of punctuated by these really funny slapstick moments.

291
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:38.279
I think the bit where stracks holds the times at Clara and she just goes backwards.

292
00:19:38.339 --> 00:19:41.819
But this incredible prat fall is hilarious.

293
00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:43.319
You can't even see her face.

294
00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:45.359
She sort of spins around and falls over.

295
00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:46.500
It's really fast.

296
00:19:47.220 --> 00:19:52.440
And then what about like when the doctor's falling down the tree and then he says, I have to relieve you of your pet.

297
00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:54.299
I was talking to the horse.

298
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:56.880
There was some really funny stuff in there.

299
00:19:56.940 --> 00:19:58.799
But also, they're all thrown away quite quickly.

300
00:19:58.859 --> 00:20:01.259
It's like the, you know, don't look at that mirror.

301
00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:02.940
It's frightening, terrifying, whatever it is.

302
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:04.559
Absolutely furious.

303
00:20:06.420 --> 00:20:08.819
These lines are set in between.

304
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:09.839
Why did I forget that?

305
00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:12.299
These lines are said quickly in between other lines, like the horse line.

306
00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:13.500
It's not laboured on.

307
00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:15.000
And then I like that a lot.

308
00:20:15.059 --> 00:20:35.339
Don't we have the conversation with Vastra and Clara just prior to this where she's questioning the doctor being old or not coping with that investor's sort of telling her like he's not young and dashing anymore and that whole sequence where it's sort of like, I don't mind that per se, like at the beginning of the episode, it's sort of like, we'll put her in a place and let's get on with things.

309
00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:37.980
But of course, but she wins that.

310
00:20:37.980 --> 00:20:41.759
She actually wins that conversation.

311
00:20:41.819 --> 00:20:48.480
So we've seen her in conversation with Vastra wearing a veil in the conservatory before in the snowman.

312
00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:52.740
Remember, where she had to give the one word answers in what was a very good scene.

313
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.440
Now we see our Clara in that same situation.

314
00:20:55.440 --> 00:21:11.099
And the reason that she's wearing the veil is because her opinion of Clara has plummeted because of her inability to accept what she's seen in front of her eyes, which is kind of how we sort of feel about her as well for that reason.

315
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:12.539
But she wins that engagement.

316
00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:16.980
And I think there is, that is slightly undermined.

317
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:20.339
Remember where she says, you know, my only pinup was Marcus Aurelius.

318
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:23.099
I've never had a thing for pretty young man.

319
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:25.500
You know, I don't know who you think you're talking to.

320
00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:28.259
But then we find out that her head is full of full of hub.

321
00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:29.819
Yeah, yeah, that's it.

322
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:33.000
That is absolutely undermined by that throwaway line.

323
00:21:33.059 --> 00:21:34.680
With Strax.

324
00:21:34.740 --> 00:21:35.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

325
00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:39.420
Where they're doing sport or maybe it's sport. sort of sport.

326
00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:42.960
Yeah.

327
00:21:43.019 --> 00:21:44.640
Yeah, I think that is a problem.

328
00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:59.940
That's a very, very good scene, though, because, you know, we can't back and we don't notice that Vastra's not wearing the veil until she calls attention to it and the wearing the veil is her judging, you know, like it's associated with her judging Clara.

329
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.859
You know, I think that's well done.

330
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:05.640
And certainly Jenny liked it because she applauded.

331
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:28.200
Victorian London is always my wheelhouse, so I like this episode is set there, but it's doing obviously the robot thing of having the familiar faces around to ease the transition to the new doctor.

332
00:22:28.259 --> 00:22:31.799
And while I'm not the biggest fan of the Peter Noster gang.

333
00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:42.000
I think they work in this episode to make the series feel reassuring and make you feel like even though we have a doctor who's a little bit different to what we've had for, you know, the return of the series.

334
00:22:42.059 --> 00:22:43.259
It'll all be okay.

335
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:43.980
It's still the same show.

336
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:44.880
Yeah.

337
00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:47.099
Yeah, and he didn't have to do that last time.

338
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:59.579
In fact, he did what was a pretty extraordinary thing, something that hadn't happened since, what, Spearhead from Space, where he just relaunches it as a different program with a completely different cast and no familiar elements at all.

339
00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:05.339
And it comes off brilliantly in Spearhead from Space and it comes off really brilliantly in the 11th hour.

340
00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:11.519
Here, it's more sort of business as usual, and he is absolutely doing what we do in robot, I think.

341
00:23:11.579 --> 00:23:13.440
Possibly because the 11th hour.

342
00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:14.460
The doctor is the same.

343
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:17.940
Obviously, there's cosmetic differences, but it's the same kind of doctor.

344
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:20.279
The doctor is not different from how you would assume he would be.

345
00:23:20.339 --> 00:23:21.720
Yeah.

346
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:23.220
Oh, you mean just the look of him.

347
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:26.640
Now we have an old doctor, we need more reassurance. the energy as well.

348
00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:27.180
Yeah.

349
00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:27.539
Yeah.

350
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:46.200
I agree with what you're saying about having the gang back and them all reassuring faces because they are in the 1st half of this episode up to about the 37 minute mark, much more than they are in the 2nd half of the episode, which becomes very much the doctor and Clara in jeopardy.

351
00:23:46.259 --> 00:23:49.559
I mean, I love all the stuff where Jenny is posing with her hair down.

352
00:23:49.619 --> 00:23:52.619
She's so beautiful, so beautiful with her hair.

353
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:55.740
I actually think that's absolutely, you know, glorious.

354
00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:56.579
Why she's doing it?

355
00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:57.119
Well, you know.

356
00:23:57.180 --> 00:24:10.980
I just think that's kind of hilarious too, because like, you know, they were always married, but it was always kind of a throwaway line, but here it is a little bit more domestic, and so you've got Vastra getting her to pose.

357
00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:15.480
She thinks she's being painted, but Vastra's just got her paranoia wall.

358
00:24:15.539 --> 00:24:19.259
You know, she's putting this red, red string on things.

359
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:30.900
It's nice that Moffat at least tries to lampshade that weird dynamic where they start off being employer and employee, but then we find out that they're married, but for some reason, behind closed doors.

360
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:33.059
They still act like employer and employee.

361
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:34.740
It's a very weird dynamic.

362
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:35.400
Yeah, yeah.

363
00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:36.480
And she calls her out.

364
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:42.960
And in fact, the next time when they have tea, Strax comes and serves, and he's their butler, he should have been doing that all along.

365
00:24:43.019 --> 00:24:48.119
Strax is really terrifically funny, I think, and gets to do one or 2 new things.

366
00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:53.339
But the old favourites, like, we can allure the doctor here and melt him with ass.

367
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:54.720
So great.

368
00:24:54.900 --> 00:24:57.119
You shall not.

369
00:24:57.299 --> 00:25:01.500
But he delivers that line in exactly the same way.

370
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:13.380
All of that stuff is really good and that's Moffat being a sitcom rider and really just making us feel at home because it's not just the Victorian location and Clara and those characters.

371
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:19.259
It's those characters doing their usual shtick, which is what is reassuring us that it's still the same show.

372
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:27.599
But I think it's needed because, like, you know, within that, we've then got the doctor searching for his clothes with Brian Miller.

373
00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:28.619
Yeah.

374
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:30.240
Oh, it was the Tramp Brian Miller.

375
00:25:30.299 --> 00:25:32.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah. husband.

376
00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:41.759
And you know, have you seen his face and he's rather intense and you know that he's going to take those clothes off the tramp there at the end.

377
00:25:41.819 --> 00:25:44.579
Like, that's not necessarily a nice thing to do.

378
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:46.859
I find it a bit uneasy watching that.

379
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:49.259
Yeah, I think you're meant to.

380
00:25:49.319 --> 00:26:02.460
And I think that that actually plays a fairly important role because it's pretty clear that the doctor is just going to kind of maybe not beat him up, but forcibly take the clothes from him.

381
00:26:02.460 --> 00:26:07.140
And then he turns up, then he turns up in the restaurant wearing the clothes.

382
00:26:07.140 --> 00:26:08.759
And when Clara says, where did you get those?

383
00:26:08.819 --> 00:26:13.559
He says, I bought them in a shop and she just goes, no.

384
00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:16.559
And he has to come up with some other story.

385
00:26:16.619 --> 00:26:37.500
So the fact that we don't see that altercation, but we're fairly certain how it went about, means that at the end of the episode where he has an altercation with the half-faced man that we also don't see, we're primed to read that as him pushing him out the door and killing him.

386
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.740
And so I think that that that pattern is quite deliberate.

387
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:42.660
Well, Stephen does it all the time.

388
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:47.400
You know, he hides things in plain sight earlier in episodes that then pay off later on.

389
00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:52.380
And I can see where that's coming from, but I do find it to be nasty and not palatable.

390
00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:54.900
And I don't know if that's the right direction to go.

391
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.059
I mean that scene is also funny.

392
00:26:57.119 --> 00:26:58.680
It's got that line of dialogue.

393
00:26:58.740 --> 00:27:01.619
It's very quick fire where the doctor says, I'll need your coat.

394
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:02.940
And the tramp says, but I'm cold.

395
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:05.039
The doctor says, so am I. So give me the coat.

396
00:27:05.099 --> 00:27:07.079
No point in 2 of us being cold.

397
00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:10.140
You're all cold with it, so...

398
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:11.039
Exactly.

399
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:11.400
Yeah.

400
00:27:11.460 --> 00:27:13.920
I think they're trying to bring back the Hartnell thing.

401
00:27:13.980 --> 00:27:17.460
Like, it is the kind of thing you can imagine, the heart and all dog doing.

402
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:20.220
Like, for instance, he steals all those clothes in the crusade.

403
00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:25.380
And, you know, he's not, it doesn't have a problem with clocking the guy over the head in, in, was it Reign of Terror?

404
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:26.039
Sarah, yeah.

405
00:27:26.099 --> 00:27:44.160
How do we feel about the paranoia that we've another bit of paranoia that the production team seems to have, and that is they've cast an actor who has been relatively recently in a relatively significant role in an episode, and they feel the need to explain that rather than just carrying on as if nothing's happened?

406
00:27:44.220 --> 00:27:48.420
I think it's sort of interesting because we don't find out until next year.

407
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:49.980
It's not revealed.

408
00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:51.599
I know it was in this one.

409
00:27:51.660 --> 00:27:53.400
Yeah, I was expecting that shot of...

410
00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:58.140
I was fine because I actually thought, okay, fans know that we've seen the face before.

411
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:02.279
It's flagged in case they want to actually reveal an answer at some point or not.

412
00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:07.079
And also, it gets us to think about regeneration again.

413
00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:13.680
And it's the usual Moffat thing of coming up with something that you never thought of, but you think, how come I never thought of that?

414
00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:16.319
And it's, who frowned me this face?

415
00:28:16.380 --> 00:28:17.940
I really like that.

416
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:24.299
So both Clara and the doctor are kind of going, how come when I regenerate?

417
00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:28.859
I have a face that clearly has been lived in already somehow.

418
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:38.160
And, you know, that's all just because regeneration makes literally no sense at all and it is just there to paper over the fact that we're recasting the main character.

419
00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:44.400
But I liked introducing that little bit of ambiguity there and it will pay off, I think.

420
00:28:44.519 --> 00:28:45.960
Look, it's fine.

421
00:28:46.019 --> 00:28:47.339
I don't have a huge problem with it.

422
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:49.079
I just sort of thought, do we really need to do that?

423
00:28:49.140 --> 00:28:51.960
I mean, we've already had even in the space of the new series, haven't we?

424
00:28:52.019 --> 00:28:54.000
had actors return Martha.

425
00:28:54.059 --> 00:28:54.900
Karen Gillan.

426
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:55.440
Well, exactly.

427
00:28:55.500 --> 00:28:58.680
Well, Martha, though, is Adiola at the end.

428
00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:00.000
Yes, of course, and that's even the following year.

429
00:29:00.059 --> 00:29:00.839
That's probably the episode.

430
00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:01.440
Yeah, yeah.

431
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:02.819
Do you know what I mean?

432
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:09.000
I mean, what, are we supposed to believe that sometime between, you know, Attack of the Sun and Avengers of Varus Collins suddenly goes, where did I get this space from?

433
00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:11.880
And, um...

434
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:13.019
It doesn't happen all the time.

435
00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:19.559
But, you know, I just, I just think it's, it's like it's, it's showing the 4th wall.

436
00:29:19.619 --> 00:29:23.519
It's showing that this is a television program and sometimes we cast the same actors.

437
00:29:23.579 --> 00:29:25.200
Have you watched the Moffatt era?

438
00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:27.180
Like, it's all that.

439
00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:28.019
I know.

440
00:29:28.019 --> 00:29:28.440
I know.

441
00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:30.059
I don't mind it.

442
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:35.220
A little bit unfortunate that they feel they have to acknowledge it because I think it was whole era ago.

443
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:43.440
I think the fact that he played Caicillius works against his early characterisation, the doctor, because they're trying to do something a little bit different, so it's not the same performance.

444
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:53.279
And Carculus is a very light and funny performance and so they're veering away from that and they won't recapture that in Capaldi's doctor performance until at least next year.

445
00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:54.839
So I think it actually worked against it a little bit.

446
00:29:54.900 --> 00:30:07.200
I think, though, that this is a doctor who is questioning himself, and he has that speech to Clara at the end, you know, like I've lived for 2000 years, not all of them have been good.

447
00:30:07.259 --> 00:30:16.559
And the thing that he says to the half-faced man, where he says you'll be surprised what steps I'm willing to take, how far I'm willing to go to protect those people down there.

448
00:30:16.619 --> 00:30:27.480
And, you know, like, the doctor's already been problematized as far back as the Pandora opens where he falls out of the sky and tears down your world.

449
00:30:27.539 --> 00:30:35.640
He's something so terrifying that he inadvertently raises armies up, who go chasing after him.

450
00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:37.920
And that's how Moffat's always done it.

451
00:30:37.980 --> 00:30:42.599
Now it's going to become a little bit more explicit what sort of characters.

452
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:43.319
The doctor.

453
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:51.779
It does make sense that he's going through, well, to me, it sort of makes sense that he's going through all that because effectively he's now entered a period of his life, which he shouldn't actually have.

454
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:56.519
He's been granted a new set of regenerations or an infinite set of, whatever it is.

455
00:30:56.579 --> 00:31:00.839
And so if you have that kind of... new lease of life.

456
00:31:00.900 --> 00:31:04.859
Well, it's not just a new lease of life, but what's the expression like?

457
00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:06.180
like survivor's guilt or something.

458
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:09.240
Yeah, it's almost like Survivor's Guild. or he's a new death experience.

459
00:31:09.299 --> 00:31:10.920
Ne-death experience was the word I'm looking for.

460
00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:11.160
Yes.

461
00:31:11.220 --> 00:31:12.599
He's had the near-death experience.

462
00:31:12.660 --> 00:31:14.160
He thought he was going to die because that was it.

463
00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:18.359
And now suddenly he's got not just a couple more years, but a whole new set of lifetimes.

464
00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:21.539
And so, of course, he's going to reassess who he is and where he's at.

465
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:24.180
I mean, there's something in that over the course of time of the doctor.

466
00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:26.220
He lived to be an old man and now he's an old man.

467
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:28.740
Yeah, I actually...

468
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:45.960
But I actually think that that's one of the reasons why Matt Smith's doctor dies of old age is because Moffat knows that he's going to regenerate him into a much older actor and he wants it to be a renewal, which is the word that Clara scoffs at when Vaster describes it that way.

469
00:31:46.019 --> 00:31:47.400
That's what Colin called it.

470
00:31:47.460 --> 00:31:48.660
I call it a renewal.

471
00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:58.680
But he's actually younger than he was before he regenerated, apart from that little moment at the end, which we needed to say goodbye to that doctor.

472
00:31:58.740 --> 00:31:59.339
Yeah, yeah.

473
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:04.619
So I think, you know, like that's that sort of a little bit deliberate.

474
00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:07.859
And I like that version of the doctor.

475
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:11.579
I like a Doctor Who is a problem.

476
00:32:11.579 --> 00:32:16.559
And it's in the new series right from the 1st episode, isn't it?

477
00:32:16.619 --> 00:32:18.900
Where the doctor goes, destruction follows.

478
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:19.859
He's dangerous.

479
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.440
People die when he's around, all of that stuff.

480
00:32:22.500 --> 00:32:24.839
Like, I want that.

481
00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:33.420
And it's when one of my big aesthetic objections to the chymnal era is that he doesn't like that.

482
00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:37.980
He wants the doctor to be unproblematically good and I think that's a problem.

483
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:41.099
I like it when it's done with a light touch.

484
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:44.880
I think sometimes it's too heavy handed and...

485
00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:46.500
Yeah, it's ridiculous.

486
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:48.839
I mean, it's obviously something we've inherited from the new adventures era.

487
00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:54.240
It's like that it's that era of the show that never was that has made its way into the new series.

488
00:32:54.299 --> 00:33:00.180
And I do agree with you that the civil era feels a lot more inconsequential as a result of that little bit missing.

489
00:33:00.299 --> 00:33:24.539
I also think that, remember, that the new series isn't so much based on the classic series as on our reactions to the classic series in our experience watching the classic series, and if the doctor spends 26 years blowing someone up every month or so, then the show itself needs to start reflecting an awareness of that.

490
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:32.759
So I can see why Moffatt does that, particularly since Moffatt is wedded to Doctor Who as a type of story rather than a real world.

491
00:33:32.819 --> 00:33:46.859
And we talked about it a little bit in that 1st scene, there's a slightly uncomfortable chafing between what they're going for with Capaldi's doctor and in Capaldi's wheelhouse in his performance and the kind of manic energy that has characterised the doctor up to this point.

492
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:54.960
That's why that 1st scene and some of this episode doesn't quite land sort of within the characterisation of the doctor because they're asking Kaporti to do things.

493
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:58.680
They're really not what his performance is about.

494
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:00.420
I'm not getting at him.

495
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:01.859
He's good value all the time.

496
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:13.619
And I think that by the end of his era, he will have become one of the all time great performance wise, but the series is still sorting out what it wants the doctor to be and it needs to make that clean break.

497
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:17.219
It can't ask Capaldi to do the things that David Tennant and Matt Smith did.

498
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:17.880
No.

499
00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:34.440
But I do think that he does get like a scene that is absolutely properly engineered to present him as the doctor, which is obviously at the end of the episode in the restaurant as it's flying over London and he's talking to the half faced man.

500
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:48.539
And, you know, it emphasises that he is dangerous and a problem, but it gives him a good sort of giant acting moment, a good moment to establish what his doctor's going to be like.

501
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:49.500
And I think he does that.

502
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:57.780
And his energy has become capable, yeah, rather than, yes, I can see the journey, Peter, that you're talking about and where we end up and I really enjoy that at the end.

503
00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:05.280
It's a real showcase for him and I just think his performances throughout his era are extraordinary.

504
00:35:05.340 --> 00:35:16.619
What I doesn't sit well with me is the relationship with Clara and it's in the restaurant where they're having their conversation about who sent the ad and how they're getting on at that point.

505
00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:19.920
And I want the companion to get on with the doctor.

506
00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:25.559
And that's, I think, a fatal flaw with Perry and the 6th doctor.

507
00:35:25.619 --> 00:35:40.079
And I think in these moments, throughout this episode, it's like that point where it's like, oh, Clara, give it a rest or doctor back down, um, that I have conniptions, maybe that's the word I'm going to use, or I'm not sure it doesn't.

508
00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:44.460
I just, I guess I'm stuck in the past where I know the mistakes of the past.

509
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:46.860
Are they repeating themselves and will people be turned off by this?

510
00:35:46.980 --> 00:35:48.119
And I carry that baggage.

511
00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:49.920
And so I bring that to watching those scenes.

512
00:35:49.980 --> 00:36:01.860
You know, when he leaves her downstairs, like, and then goes off, it's like, I can mean, I can remember going, oh, like, and a lot of people, I think, in that theatre where we watched it, were similar.

513
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:05.519
And then she has to hold her breath for an extraordinary long term.

514
00:36:05.579 --> 00:36:07.559
I tried. lovely sequence.

515
00:36:07.619 --> 00:36:09.960
Oh, I think it's a lovely sequence.

516
00:36:10.019 --> 00:36:16.139
And, you know, you're waiting for him to grab her hand and when that happens, like you just want them to be on the same page from that point.

517
00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:23.639
But there are moments just between them and I go back to the end where it's just like, I don't know.

518
00:36:23.699 --> 00:36:34.500
And it permeates through this series, I think, in a number of episodes where she well, she slaps him next week, which I think is just one of the worst moments ever, but, you know, you might all disagree.

519
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:39.420
And she's going to want to get out of the TARDIS like in about 5 episodes time forever.

520
00:36:39.539 --> 00:36:41.099
Is that the right way to go?

521
00:36:41.159 --> 00:36:41.760
I don't know.

522
00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:44.039
I mean, they're building it up and I can see where they're going.

523
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:48.480
But it's those moments in this episode that I just kind of uneasy about.

524
00:36:48.539 --> 00:36:55.980
It's some of the heavy lifting that this episode has to do that's not only redefining the character of the doctor, it's redefining the character of Clara as well.

525
00:36:56.039 --> 00:37:08.400
So she's gone from being generic Liz Slaton light style companion to actually having all of these characteristics layered on top of her needy narcissistic game player, et cetera.

526
00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:10.679
Where have we really seen that in Clara before?

527
00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:19.559
She does come out as a bossy control freak, which is a line here, but it's actually a quote from Time of the Doctor.

528
00:37:19.619 --> 00:37:24.239
And so there is, yeah, it is kind of new.

529
00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:29.219
But I think, like that scene in the restaurant is one of my favourite scenes, the one where the 2 of them.

530
00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:31.440
No, the 2 of them sitting at the table.

531
00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:32.820
Don't get me wrong.

532
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:33.599
Yeah.

533
00:37:33.659 --> 00:37:36.360
I do think, you know, with all the people there.

534
00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:44.219
Because we're going to land on the doctor and Clara are the same, you know, that they're really, really like one another.

535
00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:50.699
And so the fact that each of them goes into that conversation, thinking that the other one has...

536
00:37:50.699 --> 00:37:57.179
And that comedy moment where Clara realises he was actually talking about her needy game player.

537
00:37:57.239 --> 00:38:00.300
I do like that I do burst out laughing this time through.

538
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:07.139
But and also that thing, he pulls his own hair out to test the air in the room and it doesn't work because it's too short.

539
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:11.639
So he pulls one of hers out and he says that it was the only one out of place.

540
00:38:11.699 --> 00:38:13.440
I was sure that you would want it killed.

541
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:22.019
Yeah, which I just think is so terrifically funny and fantastic and something that Matt Smith would never have said exactly.

542
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:27.840
But, John, I do agree with you to a point with the relationship between Clara and the doctor.

543
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:29.280
I think it's mostly right.

544
00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:37.139
I just think it's only occasionally that they overstep the mark and maybe that's the line, maybe that's just the way the performance has been captured.

545
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:45.599
But I still am broadly speaking, and I was at the time on board with this kind of, not bickering, not right.

546
00:38:45.659 --> 00:38:47.519
Again, it's like what we said back in the day.

547
00:38:47.579 --> 00:38:53.579
It's trying to do the Colin Baker type thing again, but trying to fix some of the mistakes that were made.

548
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:54.780
Do they fix all of them?

549
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:55.440
Possibly not.

550
00:38:55.500 --> 00:38:57.480
But I still don't mind it.

551
00:38:57.539 --> 00:39:06.300
What I love about that scene with the 2 of them in the restaurant is it's that moment and you get it in every post-regeneration story where suddenly the doctor is the doctor.

552
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:11.820
He's not just some kooky post-regenerative thing, you know, running over rooftops and stealing clothes off a tramp.

553
00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:13.679
He's suddenly doing doctor things.

554
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:17.460
There's a moment in between dilemma when that happens, there's a moment in time at the Rani when that happens.

555
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:23.219
And often quite late, like back in the day, it would be like, it wouldn't happen to like most of the way through episode 3 or something.

556
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:26.460
But, but it's, well, it's the same kind of point of the story.

557
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:28.500
You're already kind of about two thirds of the way through.

558
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:37.139
And now suddenly we're jettisoning all that and he's mainly the doctor and then you just get the occasional flash of post-regenerative craziness for the rest of the episode.

559
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:38.340
You go, yes, this is working.

560
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:41.159
That's why I said it's like the turning point halfway through this episode.

561
00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:49.619
You could cut that in half in that restaurant scene, have a cliffhanger, and it then really becomes about the doctor and Clara as opposed to the gang that we're used to.

562
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:55.619
I mean, you know, he does talk about moments I wish Amy was here, you know, with the Sonic Screw.

563
00:39:55.679 --> 00:39:57.539
But isn't that just because Amy has long legs?

564
00:39:57.599 --> 00:39:58.380
right.

565
00:39:58.860 --> 00:40:00.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

566
00:40:01.260 --> 00:40:06.840
That voice activated thing where she says you should have made it voice activated.

567
00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:08.219
Then she looks at his face.

568
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:11.340
So it is voice activated, right?

569
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:18.780
It's so like all of that stuff is really fun and funny and he doesn't win any of those conversations.

570
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:22.260
And I think that's what...

571
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:23.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

572
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:39.360
And because we've also established Perry as someone who gets lusted after by men and manhandled, like her very 1st episode has her being pulled and pushed around by the master and stuff, like her body is kind of public property in a way that is super gross.

573
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:46.139
And having the doctor do it to her in her 2nd story is just somewhere that you can't come back from.

574
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:47.940
Here they're equal.

575
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:50.340
And I think that that's what we're going for.

576
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:52.019
I think we're going for.

577
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:58.139
You know, she's going to have her face in the title sequence of episode 11 or 12, you know.

578
00:40:58.199 --> 00:41:05.400
They're equals and that scene, I think, is just marvellous because she scores as many hits as he does, I think.

579
00:41:11.460 --> 00:41:22.440
There are a lot of comparisons made between the 12th doctor and Clara and the 6th doctor and Perry's sort of bickering or slightly abrasive dynamic, but I think they get different things wrong.

580
00:41:22.500 --> 00:41:24.480
So the 6th Dr. and Perry.

581
00:41:24.539 --> 00:41:34.079
I think Simon and Todd and I probably have a warmer opinion of that than a lot of people do because even though it's written quite badly and the performers can't make it work.

582
00:41:34.139 --> 00:41:37.619
There are moments of genuine warmth between the doctor and Perry.

583
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:39.900
And that elevates the relationship.

584
00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:44.639
Whereas here, even though the writing is much better and it's pulled off better.

585
00:41:44.699 --> 00:41:50.159
I don't believe that Capaldi or Jenna Coleman are particularly warm in their performances.

586
00:41:50.219 --> 00:41:52.260
And so it feels like a much cooler dynamic.

587
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:55.260
I love what you've just summarised there.

588
00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:58.920
I think that works for me in terms of where my brain is sitting.

589
00:41:58.980 --> 00:42:08.579
Do you know what I see more of rather than the peri thing, even though that's the logical or the easiest comparison, I think it's more Janet.

590
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:15.119
And Davidson's doctor, you can imagine Clara turning to him and saying, is that supposed to be Heathrow?

591
00:42:15.179 --> 00:42:20.579
You know, like, you know, or a line like that, the way Janet can be just so dismissive?

592
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:24.300
Conversely, I can really imagine Tegan turning around to the doctor and saying, say that again.

593
00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:25.380
I'll slap you so hard.

594
00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:26.340
You're regenerating.

595
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:26.880
Yes, exactly.

596
00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:27.960
No, exactly.

597
00:42:28.019 --> 00:42:35.519
Because you're right, because what Nathan, you were saying, is the relationship between the Sixer and Perry is actually a bit problematic, much as I love that era.

598
00:42:35.579 --> 00:42:37.800
But I will acknowledge that.

599
00:42:37.860 --> 00:43:00.900
I think that, because you've said this before, when we've been talking about the show, Peter, that part of your problem with what's happening at this point is that neither of the 2 leads is particularly warm and really at any point, you know, that they are kind of abrasive and unlikeable, in a way, both of them.

600
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:04.019
And that's not how Jenna started, is it?

601
00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:09.239
She started looking after children and being kind to Mary and all of that kind of thing.

602
00:43:09.300 --> 00:43:10.260
That's right.

603
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:20.760
She was also taking her cue from the doctor because, again, we mentioned on our last retrospective that Matt Smith's doctor is really not that nice and cuddly, but is played in a very warm and embracing way.

604
00:43:20.820 --> 00:43:22.980
So you can get away with a multitude of sins that way.

605
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:36.119
And going back to the very beginning of this conversation, Todd, when you were talking about ratings, I just had a thought that almost the most successful areas of the program are when there is a chummier relationship between the doctor and companion.

606
00:43:36.179 --> 00:43:45.840
You know, you think of the 3rd doctor and Joe, and obviously the 4th doctor and Sarah, and you've got then the tenant here with the various companions and so on, and Matt and Karen and so on like that.

607
00:43:45.900 --> 00:43:51.480
And maybe the program is less successful when they try and make that relationship a little bit too adversarial.

608
00:43:51.539 --> 00:44:04.980
In fact, you know, Pertwee and Joe are an interesting case in point because Pertwee is super obnoxious in series 7, like particularly obnoxious and unlikeable in a way that Capoldi is too.

609
00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:13.619
I think he's, you know, like there's one or 2 sort of charming moments where, you know, like he makes fun of Professor Stalman and asks if his spleen is acting up.

610
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:18.059
Oh, that's another Doctor Who story that has the word spleen in it, by the way. liver.

611
00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:18.960
Oh, is it his liver?

612
00:44:19.019 --> 00:44:20.340
No, okay, fair enough.

613
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:21.360
How does his liver?

614
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:24.000
Yeah, liver in this story as well.

615
00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:27.900
There is. walking around, like, in basses of death being obnoxious.

616
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:40.260
But yeah, and then Joe comes along and because we love Joe, and because the doctor loves Joe. We know that the doctor can't be such a terrible person because he loves Joe and his right to do so. rough edges off every time he's doing something.

617
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:41.159
She's like, now, doctor.

618
00:44:41.219 --> 00:44:48.480
And you see that in that journey throughout seasons 8 to 9, you can see that from the beginning of that season.

619
00:44:48.539 --> 00:44:55.739
Whereas part of the point here of this pair is that there's no one to hold anyone back.

620
00:44:55.800 --> 00:45:01.139
And so the 2 of them just become worse and worse as the time goes by.

621
00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:07.920
And they will course correct with Bill and Nardle, which is part of what makes series 10 spoilers.

622
00:45:07.980 --> 00:45:08.340
So good.

623
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:08.820
Yeah.

624
00:45:08.820 --> 00:45:12.420
Do you want to say no one's to hold them back in terms of production?

625
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:17.940
No, no, they're just getting worse and worse, you know, like Danny, I think.

626
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:21.420
Maybe this season, you know, there's some moments.

627
00:45:21.420 --> 00:45:24.599
That's the biggest misfiring of this era for me, the whole thing with Danny.

628
00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:28.980
But I'm thinking about things like in Mummy on the Own Express.

629
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:36.059
She's on the phone to Danny and they're having a conversation about her relationship with the doctor.

630
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:45.659
So in a sense, there are 2 influences on Clara at this point or, you know, this season and one's Danny and one's the doctor.

631
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:48.480
But the doctor tends to win, you know?

632
00:45:48.539 --> 00:45:58.559
And so she constantly kind of is getting out of control to the point where, you know, we get sort of various terrible things happening in the two-part finale.

633
00:45:58.619 --> 00:46:08.039
And then, of course, you know, going even further ahead, she becomes the doctor to such a point that it kills her in season nine.

634
00:46:08.099 --> 00:46:22.739
So, so it's, it is not a fun relationship or it's, you know, ultimately like it's described as an addiction or, or like a problem and maybe that was the bad idea.

635
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:28.860
It's set up to deliver some hilarious one-liners and sequences to each other.

636
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:29.519
Excellent.

637
00:46:29.579 --> 00:46:31.320
But yeah, which are superb.

638
00:46:31.380 --> 00:46:35.099
But as a whole, it doesn't warm me.

639
00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:36.119
It just warm my heart.

640
00:46:36.179 --> 00:46:39.719
Richard, we like watching Tom and Elizabeth and stuff.

641
00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:40.079
Yeah.

642
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:40.500
Yeah.

643
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:52.079
See, if Richard will here, I think he'd drawing comparisons between Spence Tracy and Catherine Hepburn. kind of, like that sophisticated kind of, you know, we're not going to show overt affection to each other, but we're going to sort of spa in cool ways.

644
00:46:52.139 --> 00:46:54.780
It's a bit Tom and Lala, really.

645
00:46:54.840 --> 00:47:01.559
But there it was underpinned by the performance because we knew that they were actually in love with each other and that's what comes out on screen.

646
00:47:01.619 --> 00:47:08.219
Yeah, there's real warmth there despite the coolness of the delivery and the coolness of the dialogue.

647
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:09.480
There are more smiles.

648
00:47:09.539 --> 00:47:14.159
There aren't as many there aren't enough smiles to each other in this era, are there?

649
00:47:14.219 --> 00:47:15.179
Or maybe I'm just forgetting.

650
00:47:15.300 --> 00:47:15.900
No, you're right.

651
00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:17.340
It comes back to.

652
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:18.300
It's not warm enough.

653
00:47:18.420 --> 00:47:21.719
Yeah, but it's not warm enough to deliver the dynamic that they're after.

654
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:24.960
It's like I forgive the entirety of the twin dilemma at the time.

655
00:47:25.019 --> 00:47:30.599
In fact, I really enjoyed it at the time, but those last lines where, you know, Colin says, I'm the doctor whether you like it or not.

656
00:47:30.659 --> 00:47:35.699
And this little smile. smiles at each other and then you know everything's going to be all right.

657
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:38.280
And I think that's the sort of thing that's actually missing here.

658
00:47:38.340 --> 00:47:41.340
Yeah, although I hate that moment.

659
00:47:41.400 --> 00:47:47.880
I just think it's her smiling at her abusive husband, you know, like it's sort of gross.

660
00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:04.980
Like, even at the end, when they go off to get coffee, there's still an uneasiness there, I think that's where perhaps you're going with that.

661
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:19.739
But taking things back to when they actually get downstairs into the actual spaceship, and Peter Capoldi is the doctor down there, all of his little investigations around that when he obviously leaves her and then comes back to confront the clockwork man.

662
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:21.119
Like he is the doctor.

663
00:48:21.179 --> 00:48:22.440
Yeah, 0 yeah.

664
00:48:22.500 --> 00:48:35.159
And I think that, you know, from that point forward, like there is a change in, well, what you were saying, Simon, like it does marry up the performer with the doctor.

665
00:48:35.219 --> 00:48:36.119
Do you know what I mean?

666
00:48:36.179 --> 00:48:44.579
And of course, we also then have Strax and Jenny and coming in to break the potential. possible sequence.

667
00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:46.500
It's a wonderful segment.

668
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:48.840
I'm not, you know, all the...

669
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:51.719
And then him just, the strikes just falling to the floor.

670
00:48:51.780 --> 00:48:56.340
Take the stairs. tying them back into the conclusion of this episode.

671
00:48:56.400 --> 00:48:59.760
It was nice to have the clockwork people back from...

672
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:00.900
Yeah, an unexpected return.

673
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:01.980
Unexpected return.

674
00:49:02.039 --> 00:49:04.860
Just something nice and not in a kind of a pivotal, we're going to destroy the universe.

675
00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:06.480
You know, they just need their bits of spare parts.

676
00:49:06.539 --> 00:49:09.300
Same kind of thing without being old. just the same story again.

677
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:14.460
I think that there's some parallel drawn between the half-faced man and the doctor.

678
00:49:14.460 --> 00:49:17.340
And it's a scene where he's having the confrontation.

679
00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:31.440
He holds up the mirror or the platter, the silver platter, shows the half face man, his face, and says, is there anything left of what you were originally, you know, do you know where this face even came from?

680
00:49:31.500 --> 00:49:32.340
Is even there?

681
00:49:32.460 --> 00:49:33.119
Yeah, true.

682
00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:38.039
And so, and we think his reflection. in the bladder at the time.

683
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:43.980
And so it is about him sort of questioning what's the point of going on in a way.

684
00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:47.280
It is a lovely thing, lovely analogy with the broom.

685
00:49:47.340 --> 00:49:49.440
Yeah, replace the handle, replace the brush.

686
00:49:49.500 --> 00:49:50.280
Is it still the same broom?

687
00:49:50.340 --> 00:49:52.320
Yeah, that's not, it's a completely different period.

688
00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:59.940
But it's just a lovely story to tell. one of those casually brilliant moth at moments where they realise that the hands on the half-faced man are different.

689
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:06.000
It's quite gruesome. as is the skin, the balloon made of skin.

690
00:50:06.059 --> 00:50:07.260
That's actually quite icky.

691
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:08.519
That was my last birthday party.

692
00:50:09.960 --> 00:50:11.820
What about the thing?

693
00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:18.900
He takes off the hand so that he can put the gas jet thing and he sticks it on his lapel and it's just there for the rest of the episode.

694
00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:20.820
It's great.

695
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:30.300
But that whole confrontation with the half-faced man in the restaurant, I think, is just absolutely extraordinary.

696
00:50:30.300 --> 00:50:35.219
And it is, you know, where he lands as the doctor. realised performances from both of them.

697
00:50:35.340 --> 00:50:39.539
Yeah, ultimately, I think the episode hangs on just those 22 hander scenes.

698
00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:44.940
The one with Dr. and Clara in the restaurant and then the one with the doctor and the half-faced man at the end.

699
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:45.719
Yeah.

700
00:50:45.780 --> 00:50:46.559
Yeah.

701
00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:48.239
And so he pushes him out, right?

702
00:50:48.300 --> 00:50:50.579
Yes, I'd imagine so.

703
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:52.199
I don't think the clockwork man commits suicide.

704
00:50:52.260 --> 00:50:52.679
No.

705
00:50:52.739 --> 00:50:53.460
No.

706
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:58.739
And so we get the introduction of the promised land, which comes up from time to time.

707
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:06.000
And I quite like how the doctor's just too old and just absolutely dismisses any kind of religious ideas.

708
00:51:06.059 --> 00:51:13.739
And I think we've had 2 showrunners who have been interested in religion while ultimately rejecting it.

709
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:16.440
So you get Capoli here being very blunt.

710
00:51:16.500 --> 00:51:21.420
It was a little bit like Pertu talking about your mythical devil to Joe. Yes.

711
00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:24.599
Oh, that's a nice confrontation.

712
00:51:24.659 --> 00:51:27.659
The impaled clockwork man is a bit...

713
00:51:27.659 --> 00:51:39.300
But I think that's really well done because the doctor, you know, it's the usual thing with robots who only have to kill one robot and then the others all die, so we don't have to think of a way of dealing with them.

714
00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:39.960
Yes, yes.

715
00:51:40.019 --> 00:51:41.699
And some of the autons collapsing.

716
00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:42.659
Yeah, that's right.

717
00:51:42.719 --> 00:51:46.739
But we know that he's died because we see them collapse.

718
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:47.400
Yes.

719
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:49.139
So we see them collapse.

720
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:53.699
Then we cut to the thing we see the hatch fall.

721
00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:55.739
We don't actually see him fall at all.

722
00:51:55.860 --> 00:51:58.800
And so we see the hat fall and I thought, oh, that's clever.

723
00:51:58.860 --> 00:52:04.079
They're just using the hat falling as a way of showing what's that he's falling because they couldn't have achieved.

724
00:52:04.139 --> 00:52:05.519
And Capaldi looking at a camera.

725
00:52:05.579 --> 00:52:06.599
And then, yes.

726
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:09.119
But then he's impaled on the thing.

727
00:52:09.179 --> 00:52:12.360
Bunch like Matt himself nearly was at the beginning of the 11th hour.

728
00:52:12.420 --> 00:52:18.960
That goes like that thing of like, you know, repairing a clock with a chisel, one false step, the half-face manual, never tell the time again.

729
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:25.380
And then the glorious missy.

730
00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:26.039
Yeah.

731
00:52:26.099 --> 00:52:27.900
Oh, what a star turn.

732
00:52:27.960 --> 00:52:33.659
If only that had been shot in the studio, she'd have eaten every chunk of scenery. amazing.

733
00:52:33.719 --> 00:52:37.139
She, I think, is my favourite master.

734
00:52:37.860 --> 00:52:40.380
It's her up to her in Delgado.

735
00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:40.739
It is.

736
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:42.599
Sasha is an honourable mansion.

737
00:52:42.659 --> 00:52:52.320
Yeah, well, Sasha is now, I think, come up to that same level, but I think the 3 of them are, for me, the ones that truly count as the master. streets ahead of the others.

738
00:52:52.380 --> 00:52:54.420
Yeah, I still like John Sim.

739
00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:55.739
But Peter Pratt.

740
00:52:55.800 --> 00:52:58.260
Yes, and Jeffrey Beavers.

741
00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:09.659
See, for me, John Sims steps over a line, which is unfortunate in a way that's Missy's over the top and so Sasha Duan, but they're not, somehow they managed to keep it on the right side of the line.

742
00:53:09.719 --> 00:53:15.119
That's what Nathan's always saying about the master being crafted as an opposite for that particular doctor.

743
00:53:15.179 --> 00:53:19.559
Missy is the perfect opposing force for Capaldi's energy.

744
00:53:19.619 --> 00:53:22.380
John Sim is perfect for the tenants energy.

745
00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:22.980
I think that's right.

746
00:53:23.099 --> 00:53:28.739
And I think, you know, like the fact where she deliberately says, oh, you know, do you like his new accent?

747
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:30.119
I think I'm going to keep it.

748
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:34.019
And so she's, that's the origin of her Scottish accent.

749
00:53:34.079 --> 00:53:36.539
She's just doing it because her boyfriend does.

750
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:52.860
But isn't it great that there's, is it the foreshadowing of what we get in the Dalek story that starts the next season where, you know, it's that thing of, you know, you see that couple over there, you're the dog. where she says, my friend, it's my best friend, my, how does she refer to the doctor?

751
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:53.639
Her boyfriend.

752
00:53:53.699 --> 00:53:54.599
Her boyfriend.

753
00:53:54.719 --> 00:54:04.980
And in fact, the word boyfriend is really freighted because Vastra says, you know, he's not your lover or your boyfriend and she says, you know, I never expected that.

754
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:08.460
He says to her, like the doctor says to Clara.

755
00:54:08.519 --> 00:54:11.639
I'm not your boyfriend and she says, well, yes, I knew that.

756
00:54:11.699 --> 00:54:14.400
And he said, yes, yes, but that was my mistake, you know.

757
00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:26.460
And now there's another boyfriend and like it's even underlined by the kind of robot way the half-faced man responds by repeating the word boyfriend, isn't it really awkward way?

758
00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:29.219
Do you think it's a message to certain fans?

759
00:54:29.340 --> 00:54:31.739
Like, he's not your boyfriend?

760
00:54:31.860 --> 00:54:33.480
Like, kind of delicious if it is.

761
00:54:33.900 --> 00:54:50.579
But I just think, like, it's Moffat doing the 1st regeneration where, like, he's not brave enough to cast a female doctor himself, but he does cast a female master and she is just superb.

762
00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:53.219
Like, I think she's straight ahead of Delgado, to be honest.

763
00:54:53.280 --> 00:55:02.940
I have obviously a lot of affection for Delgado, whom I've known as the master for many, many decades, but I just think Michelle Gomez wipes the floor with it.

764
00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:10.860
I think she's incredible and she's called upon to, you know, eventually bring a real depth to the character as well.

765
00:55:10.920 --> 00:55:14.219
I mean, I don't think Delgado's performance is camp performance.

766
00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:15.059
No.

767
00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:17.039
And Missy's very much is.

768
00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:18.900
So they're enjoyable on very different levels.

769
00:55:19.019 --> 00:55:21.480
Yes, they're quite different, but equally good.

770
00:55:21.539 --> 00:55:29.460
I think for me, Missy gets it because it sounds may sound ridiculous, but you know, the Delgado master always likes to wear terribly nice clothes.

771
00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:36.659
Like he's always got the terribly nice suit and the cigar and the big car and so on and she's got the lovely garden and the whole outfit and the umbrella and so on.

772
00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:42.239
Whereas maybe that's why I don't like the John Sims masters because he's kind of in a hoodie. doesn't work for me.

773
00:55:42.300 --> 00:55:43.739
He needs to be sophisticated.

774
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:46.800
He needs to be more sophisticated and look more suave than the doctor.

775
00:55:46.860 --> 00:56:01.380
But it is his thing of um, at the end of this episode, like, so Steven's now introduced this, our thread for the season, like, if it wasn't about the doctor being a good man, then who is this mysterious missy?

776
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:05.340
And of course, that's going to go throughout the entire series.

777
00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:07.980
But it's also, it's his new plaything. right?

778
00:56:08.039 --> 00:56:15.539
He's also got units and Osgood to play with coming back because he's already done that once.

779
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:18.360
He's also working Danny Pink into the mix, right?

780
00:56:18.420 --> 00:56:20.219
as part of this season.

781
00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:22.079
So he's got all these new playthings.

782
00:56:22.139 --> 00:56:25.980
And so thus this is the last time we see Faster Journey and Strat.

783
00:56:26.039 --> 00:56:27.780
And I think that's a shame.

784
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:32.880
I think for me, personally, it sends a signal like these characters don't work with this doctor.

785
00:56:33.059 --> 00:56:39.659
If you look at perhaps unit and that with Tom, yes, they were in robot, they were also interred the zygons.

786
00:56:39.719 --> 00:56:41.699
There was at least a phasing out of things.

787
00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:51.300
I would have liked to have seen them at least one more time with this doctor a bit further along the track where he is in his journey, whether he is with Clara or whatever, but that's never going to happen.

788
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:57.000
I mean, as a final outing, they're brilliant, but I think it's a shame that we don't get to see them again.

789
00:56:57.059 --> 00:57:07.079
I think there's a real course correction after series 7 here for Moffatt, and I think that he reacts, as I've said before, against the previous season each season.

790
00:57:07.139 --> 00:57:14.519
And so 7 had no arc at all in reaction against series 6's, you know, very complex arc.

791
00:57:14.579 --> 00:57:24.539
And now we're back to him doing what he started doing, which is a romantic comedy set in a school.

792
00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:28.199
So this is him going back to press gang.

793
00:57:28.260 --> 00:57:33.659
And he gives himself lots of co-credits in this season.

794
00:57:33.719 --> 00:57:40.320
And I think that that's because he's writing the scenes with Danny and Clara.

795
00:57:40.380 --> 00:57:47.699
All of that romantic comedy stuff is absolutely just reeks of Moffatt even in the episodes that he's not actually writing.

796
00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:57.300
And I think he's particularly aware of the fact that following the 50th and all the hoopla and the celebration of the programs past, that the program has to keep changing and do new things.

797
00:57:57.360 --> 00:58:04.199
And so getting rid of Vastra and Jenny and Strax, not because they didn't work or we didn't want to see them, it's just the program has to renew itself.

798
00:58:04.260 --> 00:58:04.980
It has to move on.

799
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:08.760
And so we introduced the idea too of the afterlife.

800
00:58:08.820 --> 00:58:10.860
So we've got paradise, the promised land.

801
00:58:10.920 --> 00:58:15.960
We've got the half-face man turning up. after he's killed by the doctor.

802
00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:29.880
And I think that that is a theme and has always been a theme of Doctor Who is death, but now we're going to really tackle that, I think, in a way that eventually becomes quite upsetting by the end of the season.

803
00:58:56.940 --> 00:58:59.519
Well, the listener, that's all we have time for this week.

804
00:58:59.579 --> 00:59:04.800
We'll be back next week for our long awaiting tribute to Raquel Welsh in into the Dalek.

805
00:59:04.860 --> 00:59:22.800
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at flights for entirety on Facebook, at FDE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody InterTara, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project.

806
00:59:23.219 --> 00:59:30.000
Until next time, remember that when saving someone's life, it's always best to underpromise and over deliver.

807
00:59:30.059 --> 00:59:32.340
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

808
00:59:32.400 --> 00:59:34.019
See you soon Bye for now.

809
00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:34.800
Good night.

810
00:59:40.860 --> 00:59:46.619
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd Bilby, Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffiths, and Simon Moore.

811
00:59:46.619 --> 00:59:48.300
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

812
00:59:48.420 --> 00:59:56.460
This episode of Peter Capoldi Shaped Time Tunnel was recorded on the 11th of December 2022 and released on the 16th of April, 2023.

813
00:59:57.300 --> 01:00:10.199
Once again, it's time for FDE Enterprises to launch its newest venture, Mancini's, a family restaurant chain, offering the latest in hastily butchered human offal in a thoroughly off putting Victorian atmosphere.

814
01:00:10.260 --> 01:00:12.119
Try the spotted dick.

815
01:00:12.179 --> 01:00:12.960
You'll love it.

816
01:00:16.380 --> 01:00:20.099
I have thoroughly enjoyed this discussion of this episode.

817
01:00:20.159 --> 01:00:25.019
It highlights to me the strength and, you know, some of the falls of it.

818
01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:35.039
I mean, I was talking to Nathan earlier about saying that its biggest flaw is that it's not the 11th hour, but I think it's also its greatest strength as well.

819
01:00:35.519 --> 01:00:40.380
And I can see all the setup for the season and where they're going.

820
01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:43.199
And I think I think this episode is terribly underrated.

821
01:00:43.260 --> 01:00:46.019
Like I really, I really do think it's very strong.

822
01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:48.840
Like I don't want to say 9 out of 10, but I will.

823
01:00:49.079 --> 01:00:54.360
And I really am intrigued by Peter's performance.

824
01:00:54.719 --> 01:01:05.820
And through this discussion, I'm still uneasy about the way Clara has been written and written, not necessarily played because I think Jenna does a great job.

825
01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:08.760
It's the coolness that I probably have a problem with.

826
01:01:09.900 --> 01:01:17.099
But I do think it's a really good start to this season and what they want to do.

827
01:01:17.159 --> 01:01:28.199
It's more that competently and creatively revamping the show as he goes and proving that he's still firing on all cylinders.

828
01:01:28.260 --> 01:01:31.860
He's not content just to fall back on things that he did that worked.

829
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:35.519
He wants the program to go off into uncharted waters.

830
01:01:35.579 --> 01:01:38.099
And so even though the episode itself is fine.

831
01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:38.699
It's very good.

832
01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:40.139
It's not one of the best.

833
01:01:40.199 --> 01:01:42.119
It succeeds in that respect.

834
01:01:42.599 --> 01:01:46.139
I think that Moffat has finally cast himself as the doctor.

835
01:01:46.199 --> 01:01:48.000
Have I said this on the podcast before?

836
01:01:48.059 --> 01:01:50.039
He's also cast himself as Clara.

837
01:01:50.099 --> 01:01:51.599
He's cast himself.

838
01:01:51.659 --> 01:02:02.699
Yeah, that's right He's cast himself as the doctor and so he's absolutely upping his game because he really doesn't want to embarrass Capaldi or embarrass himself in front of Capaldi.

839
01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:07.079
And so this does inject a kind of new lease of life into the show.

840
01:02:07.139 --> 01:02:13.679
I think he had 2 kind of fairly fallow years and now he's sort of really back in there.

841
01:02:13.739 --> 01:02:24.239
And I haven't seen all of season 8 in preparation for this, but I did like it a lot of the time and I'm looking forward to seeing what I end up thinking about it.

842
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:27.840
I still sort of thought echoing what I said after the 50s.

843
01:02:27.900 --> 01:02:33.179
I think it's just, I think, I think the program is suffering from a hangover from its 50th birthday party.

844
01:02:33.179 --> 01:02:42.719
And I worry that the hangover lasts most of the rest of the decade and well into the next.

845
01:02:42.780 --> 01:02:44.940
Well, no, in terms of all the decade in the show.

846
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:47.219
I think I think it's not sure.

847
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:49.019
You know, it is what to do next.

848
01:02:49.079 --> 01:02:50.219
You know, we have to do something different.

849
01:02:50.280 --> 01:02:53.099
Pressure to do something different or do we just keep going along the same?

850
01:02:53.219 --> 01:03:02.760
I think I think you wouldn't have noticed it so much had Matt Smith done an extra year had he done the 51st year, then I think we wouldn't have been in this situation.

851
01:03:02.820 --> 01:03:03.840
I just think.

852
01:03:04.019 --> 01:03:11.940
And very noticeably when Moffat sort of runs out of new things to do and just does a greatest hit series 10 turns out really well.

853
01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:21.780
Yes, it's that thing of when you stop trying to do something different and just go back to basic sometimes it does succeed more much as I love the Moffat era as a whole.

854
01:03:21.840 --> 01:03:28.139
And I think what you're saying is that you're just basically dismissing the 2nd and 3rd of them, Matt Smith.

855
01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:32.519
No, no, I mean, I still like both of those, but I do think that seven.

856
01:03:32.579 --> 01:03:35.039
And when I said the last 2 years, I did mean series seven.

857
01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:37.199
Oh, and...

858
01:03:37.199 --> 01:03:37.980
Yes, I said to me.

859
01:03:38.039 --> 01:03:38.340
Yeah.

860
01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:45.059
Well, anyway, point being that I actually think what is showing is you shouldn't have a showrunner do more than one doctor.

861
01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:47.940
RTD manages it because Eccleston's only a year.

862
01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:48.179
Right.

863
01:03:48.239 --> 01:03:52.679
So that's kind of like a, that's kind of like the preamble to what, what has actually become the new series.

864
01:03:52.739 --> 01:04:04.380
I think Moffatt's problem is that he does do 2 meaty, complete eras, and I think you get the JNT problem where they're kind of a little bit floundering as to what to do next.

865
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:06.119
You can do a Barry Letts.

866
01:04:06.179 --> 01:04:16.440
You can do an entire era in the 1st season of the next doctor, which is a bit of an amalgam of what can store. and then the next, but then you need for that 2nd year or for partway through the 1st year.

867
01:04:16.500 --> 01:04:19.800
You need the Philip Hinchcliffe to take over and go, now we're going to go.

868
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:24.719
We're going to do something else because I think only that new person can have the true vision.

869
01:04:24.780 --> 01:04:25.380
Yes.

870
01:04:25.679 --> 01:04:27.480
A truly new vision.

871
01:04:27.539 --> 01:04:36.059
I was looking through old Facebook posts and I came across a post that I wrote at the end of this night.

872
01:04:36.179 --> 01:04:42.719
No, after watching, after watching Twice Upon a Time, where I just said, oh, God, thank God, that's over.

873
01:04:42.780 --> 01:04:45.179
You know, the era of man pain is over.

874
01:04:45.239 --> 01:04:51.239
And I really like Moffat as a writer and as a showrunner.

875
01:04:51.300 --> 01:04:56.099
But I think, I think by the end of it, I was a bit sick of it and ready for something else to happen.

876
01:04:56.159 --> 01:04:56.699
Yeah, me too.

877
01:04:56.760 --> 01:04:57.059
Me too.

878
01:04:57.119 --> 01:04:58.739
He'd run out of tricks, hadn't he?

879
01:04:58.860 --> 01:04:59.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

880
01:04:59.699 --> 01:05:00.659
I think we can.

881
01:05:00.659 --> 01:05:01.739
I think there's an accident.

882
01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:03.239
Yeah, probably even before that.

883
01:05:03.300 --> 01:05:04.800
Before that, yeah, I think.

884
01:05:04.800 --> 01:05:06.179
Yeah, I would rather end on a positive.

885
01:05:06.239 --> 01:05:07.920
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

886
01:05:07.980 --> 01:05:08.460
Yeah.

887
01:05:08.519 --> 01:05:08.880
All right.

888
01:05:08.940 --> 01:05:09.179
Cool.

889
01:05:09.300 --> 01:05:09.840
Brilliant.

890
01:05:09.900 --> 01:05:10.139
Okay.