WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:57:02

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Hello, De Lister, and welcome back to Flight for Entirety, the

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only Doctor Who podcast that could really go for a big bowl of

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pigs fry right now.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Simon.

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I'm Peter.

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Well, it happens to all of us eventually.

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The handsome young doctor is suddenly old, grumpy, and Scottish

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with a predilection for brutal quips that probably still keeps

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Rebecca Front up at night.

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It's time to welcome Peter Capoldi to the stage as we discuss deep

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breaths.

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Where were we when we first saw this?

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Were we at an event?

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State Theatre?

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We were at the State Theatre, which has hosted many important life

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events.

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So this is the 2nd most important event held there.

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Is that correct?

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Oh, we saw Julie Andrews there.

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And Curry Fisher. and David Attenborough and Carrie Fisher.

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Yes.

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Okay, so it's now going down the list.

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Are you talking about Simon's wedding or deep breath?

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So we were all there.

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And I think there were people there that we knew but didn't know

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were going there.

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Well, of course, because it was a big event.

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And was it both Capaldi and Jenner, were they both there?

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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They're both there.

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And how did you feel afterwards?

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What was your feeling at the end of this episode?

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It was, are they really going for that music over the title?

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Yes, was that really the opening credits?

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I seem to recall, we, Todd, you and I came out.

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When was Brian and I came out and said we really liked it?

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And a couple of people said they didn't.

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I think James sort of was a bit nonplused. wasn't I uneasy?

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Don't I ever...

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New Doctor Who.

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You and I, I was uneasy about the fact that they made him

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unlikeable, that he's old and would people accept that?

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And I remember sitting in the audience watching it going, oh

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they're going for that.

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Oh, in the moments where he's not likeable and like, am I a good

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man or I don't even know if that's mentioned.

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I know it is.

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But I just, I was concerned.

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Yes, well, you and I looked at each other.

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Are they doing Colin Baker again?

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But trying to do it properly.

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I am vastly amused by the fact that he looked at him and said

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they've made him old considering that we are all roughly his age

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now.

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No, he's older than us.

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He's 55.

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I mean, you know, we're early 50s.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Well, very early 15.

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Some of us are earlier than others.

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You can talk something.

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I wasn't able to share that experience because I was living in

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London at the time and I saw it in a cinema in Clapham with Poor

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Masters and Matt Jones.

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Oh, wow, okay.

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And yeah, I had a pretty good response to it.

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I actually think I fell asleep for 5 minutes, not through any

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fault of the episode because it was quite late.

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I think we were seeing it at night.

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But I came away thinking, yeah, okay, this is not the Matt Smith

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era, but it might be something new and different.

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It's interesting, isn't it?

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Because he does obviously 2 episodes introducing a new doctor.

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And because the 11th hour is so spectacularly polished and, you

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know, kind of what he's been planning since he was 12 to do when

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he introduces his 1st new doctor.

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So this, the fact that this is more of a normal episode in a way

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is a slight disappointment.

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It's not the clever kind of puzzle box that...

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Yeah, it doesn't have that spectaculenness of the 11th hour.

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For me, it reminded me actually of the Christmas invasion when I

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was watching it last night, very, very similar, very similar start

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the way he arrives and comes out of the Tartars and says something

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strange to these people who already know him, and one of whom

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claims not to know who the hell this person is, which means she's

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a bit of an idiot, frankly, because she's part of that gang.

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But what struck me last night.

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The main thing that struck me last night when I was watching it

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was the fact that it's almost like all the way through the episode

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they're panicking about the fact that they've cast someone who's

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suddenly quite a bit older than the other doctors we've had.

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And they're almost overcompensating for that, especially with a

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phone call at the end.

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That's a good point.

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I never really thought about that.

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I just thought it sat uncomfortably with me.

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That phone call at the end, I think, I think is a mistake if you

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want to actually get people to accept an older doctor.

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I adore it.

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Like I do actually, I'm very moved by it and it's never been done

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before, but I guess I really wanted more of an episode where

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there's a point where the companion suddenly says, right, I'm with

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you, right?

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And there's no going back.

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You know, when he grabs her hand later in the episode.

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Suddenly that's the turning and they're going to be together.

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Not questioning.

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And I think, well, looking back on the series, you know, with

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Colin Baker, there was a mistake there that it was like, you know

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we're questioning, she couldn't accept him.

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If you look at something like robot, you know, Sarah accepts the

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doctor straight away, not saying that necessarily needed to happen

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but yes, we're panicking that we've cast an order doctor, we're

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highlighting that fact, you know, this episode got 9.170000

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viewers, it's his highest rated episode, number 2 of the week, the

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only new series doctor not to get over 10000000 or hit number one

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in their run, okay, for the week.

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And, you know, we've had a lot of good will.

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You know, people have kept with the series up to the 50th.

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There's been that buildup.

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You know, shows last for 7 or 8 years generally, here's a point

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where we don't have to, the general public don't have to stay with

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the show, right?

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And they will stay with the show this year.

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The ratings will be very similar, but at the end of this year

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there's suddenly a drop off.

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I think tackling the fact that the doctor's been cast older by

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making Clara weird about it is a wrong headed approach.

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I think she should have felt protective and worried about him in

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the same way that, as you mentioned, Todd.

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Sarah Jane did in Robot, but she accepted the doctor completely.

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I think, um, she's kind of a bitch about it actually.

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And it doesn't really work for Clara's character.

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It gets you offside with the audience.

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I think, though, that the reason for that phone call can't just

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have been because we needed to convince an audience that was used

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to pretty young men like Tennant and Smith.

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I don't think that's the primary reason, but I... the way it's

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done, though.

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Well, not the phone call itself, but what they say in the phone.

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It's an acknowledgement of that kind of fandom that really only

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came aboard because David Tennant and Matt Smith were young and

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hot.

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I think, though, what we have now is a doctor who won't express

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his feelings, who isn't as open as Matt Smith, who himself was not

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that open as the doctor, he was constantly keeping secrets and

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things, but I don't think you could have had Capaldi deliver those

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lines, and you had to give them to someone else to deliver.

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So we needed to hear that the doctor was scared, but we couldn't

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possibly have heard Capoldi say that.

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Yeah, no, I think it was a great idea.

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I love the phone call.

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I think, you know, this is the 1st time we've ever had that sort

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of, you know, reaching back.

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And it's such a great idea.

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And for that, I applaud it.

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I suppose I'm just talking about the, it's just another little

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tiny thing that there just seems to be this overall slight panic.

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It's not the phone call itself that does that.

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It's that and other things as well.

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I just remember in the audience, all the fangirls sighing and sort

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of sobbing because it was Matt Smith.

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I remember that moment and I just thought this is not good.

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Yeah, picking up on what you said, Peter.

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It's like he's resentful.

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Yeah, and that line, please tell me I didn't get old, anything but

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old.

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I mean, I'm not sure what we were meant to take away from that.

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It just feels slightly insulting to Peter Capaldi really.

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And he seems emasculated by it as well.

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Like, that's the moment that he's on the back foot.

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And in a way, he's got to be on the back foot because he's hoping

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that Clara will stay with him.

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But it does make him seem like a bit of a sad old man.

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Whereas before then, like, we talk about Matt Smith's physical

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energy in his physicality and Capaldi's physicality is quite

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different, but he also is someone who uses weird hand gestures to

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emphasise the way he speaks, who runs like an idiot, you know, like

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like he's got a real physical energy and we've seen him jumping

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off roofs and through trees and off bridges and stuff.

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You know, he's been doing the thing.

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I don't know.

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I think maybe, yeah, there...

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He's not behaving like an old man.

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No, that's right. until the very end.

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Of course, Saul Moffat working through his own issues of being old

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and creaky and Scottish.

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The projection.

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His hair is appalling.

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I really hate this short hair.

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It doesn't work on Peter Capaldi.

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I think he's just come off doing the Musketeers show where he's

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played a villain for the last year and I think the hair was

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longer.

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I may be wrong with that.

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No, but it's like it's been chopped to make a difference between

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that and this.

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Obviously, I adore the fact that over time it grows, and the

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character grows, and the warmth comes in, and you get the humour

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and all that.

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I see a very similar journey to the Pertwee doctor who has really

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short hair.

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I see all those...

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As a same hair.

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As a buffon.

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And as a fan, I just love the journey that this doctor goes on, but

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it just at this point worries me so much that he's an old man in

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those aspects and not as likeable, you know?

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But having said that, I think there's a lot of humour in this.

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And I think that my general impression at the time was that he's

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really not likeable, but he actually actually is quite likeable in

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a lot of this.

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There's scenes that sort of are different.

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Like somewhere he's quite, I'm not going to say nasty, but, you

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know, nastier, not as warm.

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Isn't more of an edge?

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Yeah.

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Next week, I think they get it completely wrong and he's just, they

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just make him too horrible, right?

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And I don't think it's for the 3rd episode where they actually get

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a balance of it really right.

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I think it would have been better had there been a Peter Capaldi

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shaped time tunnel.

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That would have made everything better.

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Well, let's talk about that.

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The title sequence.

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I actually think the 1st moments of the title sequence are

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wonderful until it gets to the halfway point, and then I think it

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all falls apart.

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I think the whole title sequence is a monstrous debacle, and I was

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bitterly disappointed at the time that they hadn't done a newer

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version of the series 7B. For a moment in time, we had an actually

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good title sequence in the program, and then they threw it all

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away.

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Oh, I said on our last retrospective that unfortunately every time

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they revamp the titles and the theme music, they each get a little

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bit worse.

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It's the same with the titles here, but the theme music is

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horrible.

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It sounds like one of those awful variations on a themes.

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Yes.

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That's what it reminded me of.

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It reminded me of like Dominic Glynn's variation.

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That was probably the good one.

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It was the good one.

250
00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:07.679
It was the last Marquez one.

251
00:12:07.740 --> 00:12:09.720
Like, I totally agree with you.

252
00:12:09.779 --> 00:12:11.519
I think the theme music is just the worst.

253
00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:15.659
It's only good when he does the guitar riffs in, is it listen, that

254
00:12:15.659 --> 00:12:16.559
they have the guitars.

255
00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:17.039
Yeah, maybe.

256
00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:19.320
And it's sort of like, why couldn't you have just kept that heavy

257
00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:24.779
guitar stuff and just jettison this horrible pingy...

258
00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:28.860
I don't know why showrunners in Doctor Who feel like they

259
00:12:28.860 --> 00:12:31.740
constantly have to change the opening titles and the theme music.

260
00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:34.559
That was not a feature of the original program.

261
00:12:34.620 --> 00:12:35.580
It changed.

262
00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:37.019
No, it changed very infrequently.

263
00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:39.720
It only feels like it was frequent because.

264
00:12:39.779 --> 00:12:41.039
It fell further apart because we were 12.

265
00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:42.299
Maybe.

266
00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:43.379
Well, not really.

267
00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:44.820
There are a lot more episodes as well.

268
00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:48.240
And so that time tunnel sequence lasted 6 whole seasons, whereas

269
00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:52.259
now every time, yeah, every time there's a new doctor or which is

270
00:12:52.259 --> 00:12:56.519
fairly frequently or just to change like the 50th anniversary, they

271
00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:59.820
change the theme, they change the titles and it's unsettling.

272
00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:03.659
They could have kept a variation of the Matt Smith, 7B titles.

273
00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:04.559
That's what they should have done.

274
00:13:04.620 --> 00:13:05.700
Yeah, which I really hate.

275
00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:08.700
Which I don't like either, no, in hindsight.

276
00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:11.100
No, no, the only decent...

277
00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:15.600
So I remember being shocked because, of course, it was a fan

278
00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:18.120
concept, which is still up on YouTube.

279
00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:19.139
I think probably.

280
00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:21.480
And so I had seen it before.

281
00:13:21.539 --> 00:13:25.799
And so when I came in and saw that title sequence, which I

282
00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:29.340
actually quite liked, because if you're going to do the travel in

283
00:13:29.340 --> 00:13:34.139
time thing, I think representing that with clockwork.

284
00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:35.460
Like I approve of that.

285
00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:37.919
I think that's kind of cool.

286
00:13:37.980 --> 00:13:40.259
Oh, I agree, because I'd seen the thin one.

287
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:41.220
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

288
00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:42.600
Didn't they get him into?

289
00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:43.559
I think he does it.

290
00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:44.700
Yeah, they didn't just steal it.

291
00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:46.559
They asked him to come and do it.

292
00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:48.720
It's a bit generic time machiney.

293
00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:50.759
Yeah, so it's too HG Wellsey.

294
00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:52.500
It's the telling movie.

295
00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:54.120
It should have been the opening credits to the telly movie.

296
00:13:54.179 --> 00:13:54.779
Yeah, yeah.

297
00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:56.340
Actually, it is kind of a bit tell movie.

298
00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:59.220
We wouldn't have been surprised.

299
00:13:59.220 --> 00:14:00.000
Yeah, the telly movie.

300
00:14:00.059 --> 00:14:03.120
But I think it's an attempt to do something different, and I don't

301
00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:06.299
think it fails, and I kind of think there's stuff in the version

302
00:14:06.299 --> 00:14:10.799
of the soundtrack that reinforces those clanking gears and

303
00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:11.220
things.

304
00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:13.019
So I don't mind that.

305
00:14:13.740 --> 00:14:18.299
But yeah, it's not sort of terrifically great, is it?

306
00:14:18.659 --> 00:14:21.120
Talking of terrifically great.

307
00:14:21.179 --> 00:14:24.419
Let's talk about the opening sequence where the doctor's TARDIS is

308
00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:28.740
spat out of the dinosaur and we get our regular gang to come and

309
00:14:28.740 --> 00:14:30.059
meet the doctor.

310
00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:30.899
What do we think of that?

311
00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:33.600
I always felt that it was a bit forced watching it again.

312
00:14:33.659 --> 00:14:36.600
Yes, I would agree, and I would say it's not terrifically great.

313
00:14:36.659 --> 00:14:40.139
I think the fact that Peter Paldi has some work to do in this

314
00:14:40.139 --> 00:14:43.259
episode to land his performance, is actually down to that opening

315
00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:48.179
sequence, which is written in that very manic Matt Smith way, which

316
00:14:48.179 --> 00:14:51.659
I know is what's intended, but I think he's wrongfooted by it.

317
00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:53.100
I don't think that's his wheelhouse.

318
00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:55.080
And so it comes across as a little bit forced.

319
00:14:55.139 --> 00:14:59.519
The dialogue is not really up to the moth at standard we're

320
00:14:59.519 --> 00:14:59.759
expecting.

321
00:14:59.820 --> 00:15:01.259
Here we go again.

322
00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:02.580
Like, she says, here we go again.

323
00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:03.779
What does that even mean?

324
00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:06.299
And I just went, have you ever been at a regeneration?

325
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:07.679
Have you ever been with another doctor?

326
00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:10.500
Like it just didn't sit well with me those lines?

327
00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:13.379
Like it was like, oh, we're just going to use the brigadiers lines

328
00:15:13.379 --> 00:15:14.879
and sort of tag it on.

329
00:15:14.940 --> 00:15:16.019
I know I'm picking it here.

330
00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:19.259
No, no, but hold the green one, the not green one, the asking

331
00:15:19.259 --> 00:15:20.940
questions one. all a little bit tired.

332
00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:25.679
Yeah, I do like the, well, you're both very similar heights. line.

333
00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:27.840
I think that there's some proper delivery.

334
00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:29.460
I think the problem is just goes on too long.

335
00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:30.419
It's just too long.

336
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:34.919
There's something also weird where there's 3 shots that are either

337
00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:37.620
entirely or partly in slow motion.

338
00:15:37.620 --> 00:15:40.860
And I can't tell, is it because they don't have coverage?

339
00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:42.299
It looks really inept, actually.

340
00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:45.960
There's one scene where we cut back to the doctor and he's in slow

341
00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:49.019
motion for no reason to stretch out a shot.

342
00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:52.019
Yeah, yeah, I don't know what it is and it just looks like they

343
00:15:52.019 --> 00:15:53.399
didn't quite have the coverage, did they?

344
00:15:53.460 --> 00:15:56.879
Because that is a very obvious set down at the base of the Thames

345
00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:00.120
there with a couple of widescreen CGI shots thrown in.

346
00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:03.659
And you're right, Simon, that the pace of the scene is a little

347
00:16:03.659 --> 00:16:04.200
bit off.

348
00:16:04.259 --> 00:16:07.200
I generally like the more measured pace of this episode.

349
00:16:07.259 --> 00:16:12.360
Now, it's 78 minutes, which is that the longest Doctor Who episode

350
00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:14.039
ever beyond the 5 doctors.

351
00:16:14.100 --> 00:16:17.220
And so it feels like a telemovie and it's got a telemovie's

352
00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:17.580
pacing.

353
00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.759
I will say, though, that even though the dialogue in this scene

354
00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:24.899
doesn't land, it paves the way for don't look in that mirror, it's

355
00:16:24.899 --> 00:16:28.919
absolutely furious, which is brilliant. love that line.

356
00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:32.639
The moment they're in that bedroom, like straight after the

357
00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:37.019
credits, it just begins to pick up and I just begin to love it.

358
00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:42.480
But it's lines like that that make it less like Colin and a better

359
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:45.480
version of Colin because basically he's insulting himself rather

360
00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:48.539
than the problem with the twin dilemma is that Colin feels he can

361
00:16:48.539 --> 00:16:49.019
do no wrong.

362
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:50.399
He's insulting Perry.

363
00:16:50.460 --> 00:16:52.200
Perry, yes, rather than himself.

364
00:16:52.259 --> 00:16:53.399
It's really quite good.

365
00:16:53.460 --> 00:16:56.639
But what about the beautifully high definition Tyrannosaurus Rex?

366
00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:00.299
It's kind of like saying stuff you invasion of the dinosaurs. n, n

367
00:17:00.299 --> 00:17:00.720
n, n, n?

368
00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:04.440
But it's so weird too, because it's kind of as if he's written

369
00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:08.819
this scene where the TARDIS gets coughed up by a T-Rex and someone

370
00:17:08.819 --> 00:17:11.519
has said to him, you do realise they're not that big.

371
00:17:12.180 --> 00:17:15.359
They're not as tall as St.

372
00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:16.920
Paul's Cathedral. yeah.

373
00:17:16.980 --> 00:17:20.759
No, well, you can see it growling at a big band.

374
00:17:20.819 --> 00:17:24.240
In fact, that opening shot is wonderful because all you see is the

375
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:24.960
T-Rex.

376
00:17:25.019 --> 00:17:28.799
Then you hear Big Ben strike, then you see the clock tower, which

377
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:30.119
I just think is really terrific.

378
00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:33.660
So suddenly, 0 gosh, we're in we're in London with a dinosaur

379
00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:34.559
which is pretty awesome.

380
00:17:34.619 --> 00:17:37.559
And then there's those sort of lines that are doing this at a

381
00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.559
repair job, which are in themselves funny.

382
00:17:40.619 --> 00:17:41.400
So it's okay.

383
00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:45.119
All of that thing where Manavastra says she hasn't seen anything

384
00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:47.640
like it since she was a little girl.

385
00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:49.619
I think is all really quite terrific.

386
00:17:49.740 --> 00:17:51.000
Yes.

387
00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:53.880
Does anyone else think that the goo on the tartars looks less like

388
00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:56.160
the insides of a dinosaur and more like a hollow of semen?

389
00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:58.200
Oh, no.

390
00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:00.779
I've never actually thought about that ever.

391
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.700
No, that's ruined it for everyone.

392
00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:06.420
Sorry.

393
00:18:06.420 --> 00:18:10.980
It's a Bonnie Langford ward from those...

394
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:11.880
Let me get this straight.

395
00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:14.759
Your takeaway from that scene was the dinosaur came on the TARDS.

396
00:18:14.819 --> 00:18:17.039
It's a lady dinosaur anyway.

397
00:18:17.099 --> 00:18:18.480
They can still happen.

398
00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:22.380
I guess we'll be cutting that out.

399
00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:26.460
But there's a lot of human masking some quite dark moments.

400
00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:30.180
He's actually taking a turn for a much darker tone, generally.

401
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:31.920
It's not just because, you know, everything's at night.

402
00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:34.259
Most of it's at night and it's all quite dimly lit.

403
00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:38.640
There is a more a great sense of foreboding than I think compared

404
00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.400
to something like the 11th hour or a lot of the Met Smith era

405
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:42.000
actually, don't you think?

406
00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:43.440
I mean, tenant era.

407
00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:48.420
I think that that shot of the dinosaur catching fire is really

408
00:18:48.420 --> 00:18:51.420
good and really kind of terrible.

409
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:52.680
Like, it's awful.

410
00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:55.680
It's so affecting, especially since, like, Peter's running on the

411
00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:57.900
rooftops and calling out to her and it's actually quite funny.

412
00:18:58.019 --> 00:18:59.279
He's being super silly.

413
00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:01.799
He's doing all the hand gestures, all of that sort of stuff.

414
00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:06.359
And promising that, yeah, see, that's the problem, isn't it?

415
00:19:06.420 --> 00:19:08.759
The moment the doctor promises that he'll get you home safe.

416
00:19:08.819 --> 00:19:10.259
Watch out.

417
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:11.400
Yeah, yeah, they're in trouble.

418
00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:12.839
That's where affects work, isn't it?

419
00:19:12.900 --> 00:19:13.920
It's in service to the story.

420
00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:16.259
The effects actually make you feel sorry for the dinosaur.

421
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:17.099
Yeah, yes.

422
00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:21.000
And and then the shot, you know, where we're on the bridge and all

423
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:24.240
you can see is this sort of wall of smoke and flame.

424
00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:25.680
Burning dinosaurs.

425
00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:27.599
Yeah, it's really, it's pretty effective.

426
00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:31.619
It is sad, but then it's kind of punctuated by these really funny

427
00:19:31.619 --> 00:19:32.819
slapstick moments.

428
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:37.440
I think the bit where stracks holds the times at Clara and she

429
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:38.279
just goes backwards.

430
00:19:38.339 --> 00:19:41.819
But this incredible prat fall is hilarious.

431
00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:43.319
You can't even see her face.

432
00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:45.359
She sort of spins around and falls over.

433
00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:46.500
It's really fast.

434
00:19:47.220 --> 00:19:50.460
And then what about like when the doctor's falling down the tree

435
00:19:50.460 --> 00:19:52.440
and then he says, I have to relieve you of your pet.

436
00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:54.299
I was talking to the horse.

437
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:56.880
There was some really funny stuff in there.

438
00:19:56.940 --> 00:19:58.799
But also, they're all thrown away quite quickly.

439
00:19:58.859 --> 00:20:01.259
It's like the, you know, don't look at that mirror.

440
00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:02.940
It's frightening, terrifying, whatever it is.

441
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:04.559
Absolutely furious.

442
00:20:06.420 --> 00:20:08.819
These lines are set in between.

443
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:09.839
Why did I forget that?

444
00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:11.880
These lines are said quickly in between other lines, like the

445
00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:12.299
horse line.

446
00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:13.500
It's not laboured on.

447
00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:15.000
And then I like that a lot.

448
00:20:15.059 --> 00:20:19.200
Don't we have the conversation with Vastra and Clara just prior to

449
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:23.099
this where she's questioning the doctor being old or not coping

450
00:20:23.099 --> 00:20:26.400
with that investor's sort of telling her like he's not young and

451
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:30.599
dashing anymore and that whole sequence where it's sort of like, I

452
00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.240
don't mind that per se, like at the beginning of the episode, it's

453
00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:34.980
sort of like, we'll put her in a place and let's get on with

454
00:20:34.980 --> 00:20:35.339
things.

455
00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:37.980
But of course, but she wins that.

456
00:20:37.980 --> 00:20:41.759
She actually wins that conversation.

457
00:20:41.819 --> 00:20:45.480
So we've seen her in conversation with Vastra wearing a veil in

458
00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:48.480
the conservatory before in the snowman.

459
00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:52.140
Remember, where she had to give the one word answers in what was a

460
00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:52.740
very good scene.

461
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.440
Now we see our Clara in that same situation.

462
00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:59.220
And the reason that she's wearing the veil is because her opinion

463
00:20:59.220 --> 00:21:03.180
of Clara has plummeted because of her inability to accept what

464
00:21:03.180 --> 00:21:07.680
she's seen in front of her eyes, which is kind of how we sort of

465
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:11.099
feel about her as well for that reason.

466
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:12.539
But she wins that engagement.

467
00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:16.980
And I think there is, that is slightly undermined.

468
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.559
Remember where she says, you know, my only pinup was Marcus

469
00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:20.339
Aurelius.

470
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:23.099
I've never had a thing for pretty young man.

471
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:25.500
You know, I don't know who you think you're talking to.

472
00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:28.259
But then we find out that her head is full of full of hub.

473
00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:29.819
Yeah, yeah, that's it.

474
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:33.000
That is absolutely undermined by that throwaway line.

475
00:21:33.059 --> 00:21:34.680
With Strax.

476
00:21:34.740 --> 00:21:35.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

477
00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:39.420
Where they're doing sport or maybe it's sport. sort of sport.

478
00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:42.960
Yeah.

479
00:21:43.019 --> 00:21:44.640
Yeah, I think that is a problem.

480
00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:47.640
That's a very, very good scene, though, because, you know, we

481
00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:50.880
can't back and we don't notice that Vastra's not wearing the veil

482
00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:55.859
until she calls attention to it and the wearing the veil is her

483
00:21:55.859 --> 00:21:59.940
judging, you know, like it's associated with her judging Clara.

484
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.859
You know, I think that's well done.

485
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:05.640
And certainly Jenny liked it because she applauded.

486
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:19.380
Victorian London is always my wheelhouse, so I like this episode

487
00:22:19.380 --> 00:22:24.059
is set there, but it's doing obviously the robot thing of having

488
00:22:24.059 --> 00:22:27.599
the familiar faces around to ease the transition to the new

489
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:28.200
doctor.

490
00:22:28.259 --> 00:22:31.799
And while I'm not the biggest fan of the Peter Noster gang.

491
00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:34.559
I think they work in this episode to make the series feel

492
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:37.740
reassuring and make you feel like even though we have a doctor

493
00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:41.099
who's a little bit different to what we've had for, you know, the

494
00:22:41.099 --> 00:22:42.000
return of the series.

495
00:22:42.059 --> 00:22:43.259
It'll all be okay.

496
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:43.980
It's still the same show.

497
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:44.880
Yeah.

498
00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:47.099
Yeah, and he didn't have to do that last time.

499
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:50.700
In fact, he did what was a pretty extraordinary thing, something

500
00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:54.240
that hadn't happened since, what, Spearhead from Space, where he

501
00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:56.819
just relaunches it as a different program with a completely

502
00:22:56.819 --> 00:22:59.579
different cast and no familiar elements at all.

503
00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:03.299
And it comes off brilliantly in Spearhead from Space and it comes

504
00:23:03.299 --> 00:23:05.339
off really brilliantly in the 11th hour.

505
00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:08.819
Here, it's more sort of business as usual, and he is absolutely

506
00:23:08.819 --> 00:23:11.519
doing what we do in robot, I think.

507
00:23:11.579 --> 00:23:13.440
Possibly because the 11th hour.

508
00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:14.460
The doctor is the same.

509
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:17.279
Obviously, there's cosmetic differences, but it's the same kind of

510
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:17.940
doctor.

511
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:20.160
The doctor is not different from how you would assume he would

512
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:20.279
be.

513
00:23:20.339 --> 00:23:21.720
Yeah.

514
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:23.220
Oh, you mean just the look of him.

515
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:26.460
Now we have an old doctor, we need more reassurance. the energy as

516
00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:26.640
well.

517
00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:27.180
Yeah.

518
00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:27.539
Yeah.

519
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:32.579
I agree with what you're saying about having the gang back and

520
00:23:32.579 --> 00:23:37.619
them all reassuring faces because they are in the 1st half of this

521
00:23:37.619 --> 00:23:41.700
episode up to about the 37 minute mark, much more than they are in

522
00:23:41.700 --> 00:23:44.099
the 2nd half of the episode, which becomes very much the doctor

523
00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:46.200
and Clara in jeopardy.

524
00:23:46.259 --> 00:23:49.140
I mean, I love all the stuff where Jenny is posing with her hair

525
00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:49.559
down.

526
00:23:49.619 --> 00:23:52.619
She's so beautiful, so beautiful with her hair.

527
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:55.740
I actually think that's absolutely, you know, glorious.

528
00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:56.579
Why she's doing it?

529
00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:57.119
Well, you know.

530
00:23:57.180 --> 00:24:02.579
I just think that's kind of hilarious too, because like, you know

531
00:24:02.579 --> 00:24:05.700
they were always married, but it was always kind of a throwaway

532
00:24:05.700 --> 00:24:09.299
line, but here it is a little bit more domestic, and so you've got

533
00:24:09.299 --> 00:24:10.980
Vastra getting her to pose.

534
00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:14.819
She thinks she's being painted, but Vastra's just got her paranoia

535
00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:15.480
wall.

536
00:24:15.539 --> 00:24:19.259
You know, she's putting this red, red string on things.

537
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:23.400
It's nice that Moffat at least tries to lampshade that weird

538
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:27.720
dynamic where they start off being employer and employee, but then

539
00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:29.940
we find out that they're married, but for some reason, behind

540
00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:30.900
closed doors.

541
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:33.059
They still act like employer and employee.

542
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:34.740
It's a very weird dynamic.

543
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:35.400
Yeah, yeah.

544
00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:36.480
And she calls her out.

545
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:39.660
And in fact, the next time when they have tea, Strax comes and

546
00:24:39.660 --> 00:24:42.599
serves, and he's their butler, he should have been doing that all

547
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:42.960
along.

548
00:24:43.019 --> 00:24:47.339
Strax is really terrifically funny, I think, and gets to do one or

549
00:24:47.339 --> 00:24:48.119
2 new things.

550
00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:52.200
But the old favourites, like, we can allure the doctor here and

551
00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:53.339
melt him with ass.

552
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:54.720
So great.

553
00:24:54.900 --> 00:24:57.119
You shall not.

554
00:24:57.299 --> 00:25:01.500
But he delivers that line in exactly the same way.

555
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:05.039
All of that stuff is really good and that's Moffat being a sitcom

556
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:08.339
rider and really just making us feel at home because it's not just

557
00:25:08.339 --> 00:25:13.380
the Victorian location and Clara and those characters.

558
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:17.400
It's those characters doing their usual shtick, which is what is

559
00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:19.259
reassuring us that it's still the same show.

560
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:22.799
But I think it's needed because, like, you know, within that, we've

561
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:27.599
then got the doctor searching for his clothes with Brian Miller.

562
00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:28.619
Yeah.

563
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:30.240
Oh, it was the Tramp Brian Miller.

564
00:25:30.299 --> 00:25:32.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah. husband.

565
00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:37.440
And you know, have you seen his face and he's rather intense and

566
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:41.220
you know that he's going to take those clothes off the tramp there

567
00:25:41.220 --> 00:25:41.759
at the end.

568
00:25:41.819 --> 00:25:44.579
Like, that's not necessarily a nice thing to do.

569
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:46.859
I find it a bit uneasy watching that.

570
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:49.259
Yeah, I think you're meant to.

571
00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:52.619
And I think that that actually plays a fairly important role

572
00:25:52.619 --> 00:25:56.940
because it's pretty clear that the doctor is just going to kind of

573
00:25:56.940 --> 00:26:02.460
maybe not beat him up, but forcibly take the clothes from him.

574
00:26:02.460 --> 00:26:06.359
And then he turns up, then he turns up in the restaurant wearing

575
00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:07.140
the clothes.

576
00:26:07.140 --> 00:26:08.759
And when Clara says, where did you get those?

577
00:26:08.819 --> 00:26:13.559
He says, I bought them in a shop and she just goes, no.

578
00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:16.559
And he has to come up with some other story.

579
00:26:16.619 --> 00:26:21.299
So the fact that we don't see that altercation, but we're fairly

580
00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:25.980
certain how it went about, means that at the end of the episode

581
00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:30.960
where he has an altercation with the half-faced man that we also

582
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:35.519
don't see, we're primed to read that as him pushing him out the

583
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:37.500
door and killing him.

584
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.740
And so I think that that that pattern is quite deliberate.

585
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:42.660
Well, Stephen does it all the time.

586
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:46.380
You know, he hides things in plain sight earlier in episodes that

587
00:26:46.380 --> 00:26:47.400
then pay off later on.

588
00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:49.859
And I can see where that's coming from, but I do find it to be

589
00:26:49.859 --> 00:26:52.380
nasty and not palatable.

590
00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:54.900
And I don't know if that's the right direction to go.

591
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.059
I mean that scene is also funny.

592
00:26:57.119 --> 00:26:58.680
It's got that line of dialogue.

593
00:26:58.740 --> 00:27:01.619
It's very quick fire where the doctor says, I'll need your coat.

594
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:02.940
And the tramp says, but I'm cold.

595
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:05.039
The doctor says, so am I. So give me the coat.

596
00:27:05.099 --> 00:27:07.079
No point in 2 of us being cold.

597
00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:10.140
You're all cold with it, so...

598
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:11.039
Exactly.

599
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:11.400
Yeah.

600
00:27:11.460 --> 00:27:13.920
I think they're trying to bring back the Hartnell thing.

601
00:27:13.980 --> 00:27:16.920
Like, it is the kind of thing you can imagine, the heart and all

602
00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:17.460
dog doing.

603
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:20.220
Like, for instance, he steals all those clothes in the crusade.

604
00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:22.859
And, you know, he's not, it doesn't have a problem with clocking

605
00:27:22.859 --> 00:27:25.380
the guy over the head in, in, was it Reign of Terror?

606
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:26.039
Sarah, yeah.

607
00:27:26.099 --> 00:27:30.720
How do we feel about the paranoia that we've another bit of

608
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:32.819
paranoia that the production team seems to have, and that is

609
00:27:32.819 --> 00:27:37.319
they've cast an actor who has been relatively recently in a

610
00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:41.220
relatively significant role in an episode, and they feel the need

611
00:27:41.220 --> 00:27:44.039
to explain that rather than just carrying on as if nothing's

612
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:44.160
happened?

613
00:27:44.220 --> 00:27:47.819
I think it's sort of interesting because we don't find out until

614
00:27:47.819 --> 00:27:48.420
next year.

615
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:49.980
It's not revealed.

616
00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:51.599
I know it was in this one.

617
00:27:51.660 --> 00:27:53.400
Yeah, I was expecting that shot of...

618
00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:57.240
I was fine because I actually thought, okay, fans know that we've

619
00:27:57.240 --> 00:27:58.140
seen the face before.

620
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:01.619
It's flagged in case they want to actually reveal an answer at

621
00:28:01.619 --> 00:28:02.279
some point or not.

622
00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:07.079
And also, it gets us to think about regeneration again.

623
00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:10.500
And it's the usual Moffat thing of coming up with something that

624
00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:13.500
you never thought of, but you think, how come I never thought of

625
00:28:13.500 --> 00:28:13.680
that?

626
00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:16.319
And it's, who frowned me this face?

627
00:28:16.380 --> 00:28:17.940
I really like that.

628
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:23.640
So both Clara and the doctor are kind of going, how come when I

629
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:24.299
regenerate?

630
00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:28.859
I have a face that clearly has been lived in already somehow.

631
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:32.460
And, you know, that's all just because regeneration makes

632
00:28:32.460 --> 00:28:36.000
literally no sense at all and it is just there to paper over the

633
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.160
fact that we're recasting the main character.

634
00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:43.079
But I liked introducing that little bit of ambiguity there and it

635
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:44.400
will pay off, I think.

636
00:28:44.519 --> 00:28:45.960
Look, it's fine.

637
00:28:46.019 --> 00:28:47.339
I don't have a huge problem with it.

638
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:49.079
I just sort of thought, do we really need to do that?

639
00:28:49.140 --> 00:28:51.539
I mean, we've already had even in the space of the new series

640
00:28:51.539 --> 00:28:51.960
haven't we?

641
00:28:52.019 --> 00:28:54.000
had actors return Martha.

642
00:28:54.059 --> 00:28:54.900
Karen Gillan.

643
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:55.440
Well, exactly.

644
00:28:55.500 --> 00:28:58.680
Well, Martha, though, is Adiola at the end.

645
00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:00.000
Yes, of course, and that's even the following year.

646
00:29:00.059 --> 00:29:00.839
That's probably the episode.

647
00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:01.440
Yeah, yeah.

648
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:02.819
Do you know what I mean?

649
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:05.279
I mean, what, are we supposed to believe that sometime between, you

650
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:07.559
know, Attack of the Sun and Avengers of Varus Collins suddenly

651
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:09.000
goes, where did I get this space from?

652
00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:11.880
And, um...

653
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:13.019
It doesn't happen all the time.

654
00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:18.660
But, you know, I just, I just think it's, it's like it's, it's

655
00:29:18.660 --> 00:29:19.559
showing the 4th wall.

656
00:29:19.619 --> 00:29:22.079
It's showing that this is a television program and sometimes we

657
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:23.519
cast the same actors.

658
00:29:23.579 --> 00:29:25.200
Have you watched the Moffatt era?

659
00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:27.180
Like, it's all that.

660
00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:28.019
I know.

661
00:29:28.019 --> 00:29:28.440
I know.

662
00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:30.059
I don't mind it.

663
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:32.640
A little bit unfortunate that they feel they have to acknowledge

664
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:35.220
it because I think it was whole era ago.

665
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:39.599
I think the fact that he played Caicillius works against his early

666
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:41.460
characterisation, the doctor, because they're trying to do

667
00:29:41.460 --> 00:29:43.019
something a little bit different, so it's not the same

668
00:29:43.019 --> 00:29:43.440
performance.

669
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:47.279
And Carculus is a very light and funny performance and so they're

670
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:51.180
veering away from that and they won't recapture that in Capaldi's

671
00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:53.279
doctor performance until at least next year.

672
00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:54.839
So I think it actually worked against it a little bit.

673
00:29:54.900 --> 00:30:01.019
I think, though, that this is a doctor who is questioning himself

674
00:30:01.019 --> 00:30:05.039
and he has that speech to Clara at the end, you know, like I've

675
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:07.200
lived for 2000 years, not all of them have been good.

676
00:30:07.259 --> 00:30:10.500
And the thing that he says to the half-faced man, where he says

677
00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:13.920
you'll be surprised what steps I'm willing to take, how far I'm

678
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:16.559
willing to go to protect those people down there.

679
00:30:16.619 --> 00:30:22.019
And, you know, like, the doctor's already been problematized as

680
00:30:22.019 --> 00:30:26.339
far back as the Pandora opens where he falls out of the sky and

681
00:30:26.339 --> 00:30:27.480
tears down your world.

682
00:30:27.539 --> 00:30:32.519
He's something so terrifying that he inadvertently raises armies

683
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:35.640
up, who go chasing after him.

684
00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:37.920
And that's how Moffat's always done it.

685
00:30:37.980 --> 00:30:41.880
Now it's going to become a little bit more explicit what sort of

686
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:42.599
characters.

687
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:43.319
The doctor.

688
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:46.259
It does make sense that he's going through, well, to me, it sort

689
00:30:46.259 --> 00:30:47.759
of makes sense that he's going through all that because

690
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:51.059
effectively he's now entered a period of his life, which he

691
00:30:51.059 --> 00:30:51.779
shouldn't actually have.

692
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:55.980
He's been granted a new set of regenerations or an infinite set of

693
00:30:55.980 --> 00:30:56.519
whatever it is.

694
00:30:56.579 --> 00:31:00.839
And so if you have that kind of... new lease of life.

695
00:31:00.900 --> 00:31:04.319
Well, it's not just a new lease of life, but what's the expression

696
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:04.859
like?

697
00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:06.180
like survivor's guilt or something.

698
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:08.759
Yeah, it's almost like Survivor's Guild. or he's a new death

699
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:09.240
experience.

700
00:31:09.299 --> 00:31:10.920
Ne-death experience was the word I'm looking for.

701
00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:11.160
Yes.

702
00:31:11.220 --> 00:31:12.599
He's had the near-death experience.

703
00:31:12.660 --> 00:31:14.160
He thought he was going to die because that was it.

704
00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:17.039
And now suddenly he's got not just a couple more years, but a

705
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:18.359
whole new set of lifetimes.

706
00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:21.359
And so, of course, he's going to reassess who he is and where he's

707
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:21.539
at.

708
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:23.880
I mean, there's something in that over the course of time of the

709
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:24.180
doctor.

710
00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:26.220
He lived to be an old man and now he's an old man.

711
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:28.740
Yeah, I actually...

712
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:32.099
But I actually think that that's one of the reasons why Matt

713
00:31:32.099 --> 00:31:35.940
Smith's doctor dies of old age is because Moffat knows that he's

714
00:31:35.940 --> 00:31:39.359
going to regenerate him into a much older actor and he wants it to

715
00:31:39.359 --> 00:31:45.000
be a renewal, which is the word that Clara scoffs at when Vaster

716
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:45.960
describes it that way.

717
00:31:46.019 --> 00:31:47.400
That's what Colin called it.

718
00:31:47.460 --> 00:31:48.660
I call it a renewal.

719
00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:53.940
But he's actually younger than he was before he regenerated, apart

720
00:31:53.940 --> 00:31:57.359
from that little moment at the end, which we needed to say goodbye

721
00:31:57.359 --> 00:31:58.680
to that doctor.

722
00:31:58.740 --> 00:31:59.339
Yeah, yeah.

723
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:04.079
So I think, you know, like that's that sort of a little bit

724
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:04.619
deliberate.

725
00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:07.859
And I like that version of the doctor.

726
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:11.579
I like a Doctor Who is a problem.

727
00:32:11.579 --> 00:32:16.559
And it's in the new series right from the 1st episode, isn't it?

728
00:32:16.619 --> 00:32:18.900
Where the doctor goes, destruction follows.

729
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:19.859
He's dangerous.

730
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.440
People die when he's around, all of that stuff.

731
00:32:22.500 --> 00:32:24.839
Like, I want that.

732
00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:31.079
And it's when one of my big aesthetic objections to the chymnal

733
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:33.420
era is that he doesn't like that.

734
00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:37.319
He wants the doctor to be unproblematically good and I think

735
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:37.980
that's a problem.

736
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:41.099
I like it when it's done with a light touch.

737
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:44.880
I think sometimes it's too heavy handed and...

738
00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:46.500
Yeah, it's ridiculous.

739
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:48.180
I mean, it's obviously something we've inherited from the new

740
00:32:48.180 --> 00:32:48.839
adventures era.

741
00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:52.559
It's like that it's that era of the show that never was that has

742
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:54.240
made its way into the new series.

743
00:32:54.299 --> 00:32:56.759
And I do agree with you that the civil era feels a lot more

744
00:32:56.759 --> 00:33:00.180
inconsequential as a result of that little bit missing.

745
00:33:00.299 --> 00:33:04.680
I also think that, remember, that the new series isn't so much

746
00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:09.180
based on the classic series as on our reactions to the classic

747
00:33:09.180 --> 00:33:13.259
series in our experience watching the classic series, and if the

748
00:33:13.259 --> 00:33:19.680
doctor spends 26 years blowing someone up every month or so, then

749
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:24.539
the show itself needs to start reflecting an awareness of that.

750
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:28.259
So I can see why Moffatt does that, particularly since Moffatt is

751
00:33:28.259 --> 00:33:32.759
wedded to Doctor Who as a type of story rather than a real world.

752
00:33:32.819 --> 00:33:36.539
And we talked about it a little bit in that 1st scene, there's a

753
00:33:36.539 --> 00:33:39.420
slightly uncomfortable chafing between what they're going for with

754
00:33:39.420 --> 00:33:42.660
Capaldi's doctor and in Capaldi's wheelhouse in his performance

755
00:33:42.660 --> 00:33:46.440
and the kind of manic energy that has characterised the doctor up

756
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:46.859
to this point.

757
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:49.859
That's why that 1st scene and some of this episode doesn't quite

758
00:33:49.859 --> 00:33:53.460
land sort of within the characterisation of the doctor because

759
00:33:53.460 --> 00:33:54.960
they're asking Kaporti to do things.

760
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:58.680
They're really not what his performance is about.

761
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:00.420
I'm not getting at him.

762
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:01.859
He's good value all the time.

763
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:05.640
And I think that by the end of his era, he will have become one of

764
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:09.420
the all time great performance wise, but the series is still

765
00:34:09.420 --> 00:34:12.719
sorting out what it wants the doctor to be and it needs to make

766
00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:13.619
that clean break.

767
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:16.679
It can't ask Capaldi to do the things that David Tennant and Matt

768
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:17.219
Smith did.

769
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:17.880
No.

770
00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:22.199
But I do think that he does get like a scene that is absolutely

771
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:26.940
properly engineered to present him as the doctor, which is

772
00:34:26.940 --> 00:34:30.539
obviously at the end of the episode in the restaurant as it's

773
00:34:30.539 --> 00:34:34.440
flying over London and he's talking to the half faced man.

774
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:42.780
And, you know, it emphasises that he is dangerous and a problem

775
00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:46.019
but it gives him a good sort of giant acting moment, a good moment

776
00:34:46.019 --> 00:34:48.539
to establish what his doctor's going to be like.

777
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:49.500
And I think he does that.

778
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:53.460
And his energy has become capable, yeah, rather than, yes, I can

779
00:34:53.460 --> 00:34:55.980
see the journey, Peter, that you're talking about and where we end

780
00:34:55.980 --> 00:34:57.780
up and I really enjoy that at the end.

781
00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:01.980
It's a real showcase for him and I just think his performances

782
00:35:01.980 --> 00:35:05.280
throughout his era are extraordinary.

783
00:35:05.340 --> 00:35:10.320
What I doesn't sit well with me is the relationship with Clara and

784
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:12.239
it's in the restaurant where they're having their conversation

785
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:16.619
about who sent the ad and how they're getting on at that point.

786
00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:19.920
And I want the companion to get on with the doctor.

787
00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:25.559
And that's, I think, a fatal flaw with Perry and the 6th doctor.

788
00:35:25.619 --> 00:35:29.880
And I think in these moments, throughout this episode, it's like

789
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:33.119
that point where it's like, oh, Clara, give it a rest or doctor

790
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:38.400
back down, um, that I have conniptions, maybe that's the word I'm

791
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:40.079
going to use, or I'm not sure it doesn't.

792
00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:44.039
I just, I guess I'm stuck in the past where I know the mistakes of

793
00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:44.460
the past.

794
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:46.679
Are they repeating themselves and will people be turned off by

795
00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:46.860
this?

796
00:35:46.980 --> 00:35:48.119
And I carry that baggage.

797
00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:49.920
And so I bring that to watching those scenes.

798
00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:55.079
You know, when he leaves her downstairs, like, and then goes off

799
00:35:55.079 --> 00:35:58.739
it's like, I can mean, I can remember going, oh, like, and a lot

800
00:35:58.739 --> 00:36:01.320
of people, I think, in that theatre where we watched it, were

801
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:01.860
similar.

802
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:05.039
And then she has to hold her breath for an extraordinary long

803
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:05.519
term.

804
00:36:05.579 --> 00:36:07.559
I tried. lovely sequence.

805
00:36:07.619 --> 00:36:09.960
Oh, I think it's a lovely sequence.

806
00:36:10.019 --> 00:36:13.019
And, you know, you're waiting for him to grab her hand and when

807
00:36:13.019 --> 00:36:15.840
that happens, like you just want them to be on the same page from

808
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:16.139
that point.

809
00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:20.880
But there are moments just between them and I go back to the end

810
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:23.639
where it's just like, I don't know.

811
00:36:23.699 --> 00:36:27.480
And it permeates through this series, I think, in a number of

812
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:31.380
episodes where she well, she slaps him next week, which I think is

813
00:36:31.380 --> 00:36:33.960
just one of the worst moments ever, but, you know, you might all

814
00:36:33.960 --> 00:36:34.500
disagree.

815
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:38.340
And she's going to want to get out of the TARDIS like in about 5

816
00:36:38.340 --> 00:36:39.420
episodes time forever.

817
00:36:39.539 --> 00:36:41.099
Is that the right way to go?

818
00:36:41.159 --> 00:36:41.760
I don't know.

819
00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:44.039
I mean, they're building it up and I can see where they're going.

820
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:48.179
But it's those moments in this episode that I just kind of uneasy

821
00:36:48.179 --> 00:36:48.480
about.

822
00:36:48.539 --> 00:36:51.179
It's some of the heavy lifting that this episode has to do that's

823
00:36:51.179 --> 00:36:54.059
not only redefining the character of the doctor, it's redefining

824
00:36:54.059 --> 00:36:55.980
the character of Clara as well.

825
00:36:56.039 --> 00:37:01.380
So she's gone from being generic Liz Slaton light style companion

826
00:37:01.380 --> 00:37:05.280
to actually having all of these characteristics layered on top of

827
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:08.400
her needy narcissistic game player, et cetera.

828
00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:10.679
Where have we really seen that in Clara before?

829
00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:17.460
She does come out as a bossy control freak, which is a line here

830
00:37:17.460 --> 00:37:19.559
but it's actually a quote from Time of the Doctor.

831
00:37:19.619 --> 00:37:24.239
And so there is, yeah, it is kind of new.

832
00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:27.239
But I think, like that scene in the restaurant is one of my

833
00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:29.219
favourite scenes, the one where the 2 of them.

834
00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:31.440
No, the 2 of them sitting at the table.

835
00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:32.820
Don't get me wrong.

836
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:33.599
Yeah.

837
00:37:33.659 --> 00:37:36.360
I do think, you know, with all the people there.

838
00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:40.440
Because we're going to land on the doctor and Clara are the same

839
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:44.219
you know, that they're really, really like one another.

840
00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:47.579
And so the fact that each of them goes into that conversation

841
00:37:47.579 --> 00:37:50.699
thinking that the other one has...

842
00:37:50.699 --> 00:37:53.579
And that comedy moment where Clara realises he was actually

843
00:37:53.579 --> 00:37:57.179
talking about her needy game player.

844
00:37:57.239 --> 00:38:00.300
I do like that I do burst out laughing this time through.

845
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:04.500
But and also that thing, he pulls his own hair out to test the air

846
00:38:04.500 --> 00:38:07.139
in the room and it doesn't work because it's too short.

847
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:10.860
So he pulls one of hers out and he says that it was the only one

848
00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:11.639
out of place.

849
00:38:11.699 --> 00:38:13.440
I was sure that you would want it killed.

850
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:18.360
Yeah, which I just think is so terrifically funny and fantastic

851
00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:22.019
and something that Matt Smith would never have said exactly.

852
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.559
But, John, I do agree with you to a point with the relationship

853
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:27.840
between Clara and the doctor.

854
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:29.280
I think it's mostly right.

855
00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:33.179
I just think it's only occasionally that they overstep the mark

856
00:38:33.179 --> 00:38:36.000
and maybe that's the line, maybe that's just the way the

857
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:37.139
performance has been captured.

858
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:41.760
But I still am broadly speaking, and I was at the time on board

859
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:45.599
with this kind of, not bickering, not right.

860
00:38:45.659 --> 00:38:47.519
Again, it's like what we said back in the day.

861
00:38:47.579 --> 00:38:51.179
It's trying to do the Colin Baker type thing again, but trying to

862
00:38:51.179 --> 00:38:53.579
fix some of the mistakes that were made.

863
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:54.780
Do they fix all of them?

864
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:55.440
Possibly not.

865
00:38:55.500 --> 00:38:57.480
But I still don't mind it.

866
00:38:57.539 --> 00:39:00.659
What I love about that scene with the 2 of them in the restaurant

867
00:39:00.659 --> 00:39:04.260
is it's that moment and you get it in every post-regeneration

868
00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:06.300
story where suddenly the doctor is the doctor.

869
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:09.420
He's not just some kooky post-regenerative thing, you know, running

870
00:39:09.420 --> 00:39:11.820
over rooftops and stealing clothes off a tramp.

871
00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:13.679
He's suddenly doing doctor things.

872
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:16.019
There's a moment in between dilemma when that happens, there's a

873
00:39:16.019 --> 00:39:17.460
moment in time at the Rani when that happens.

874
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:20.340
And often quite late, like back in the day, it would be like, it

875
00:39:20.340 --> 00:39:22.559
wouldn't happen to like most of the way through episode 3 or

876
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:23.219
something.

877
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:26.460
But, but it's, well, it's the same kind of point of the story.

878
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:28.500
You're already kind of about two thirds of the way through.

879
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:32.039
And now suddenly we're jettisoning all that and he's mainly the

880
00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:35.400
doctor and then you just get the occasional flash of post

881
00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:37.139
regenerative craziness for the rest of the episode.

882
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:38.340
You go, yes, this is working.

883
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:40.860
That's why I said it's like the turning point halfway through this

884
00:39:40.860 --> 00:39:41.159
episode.

885
00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:43.199
You could cut that in half in that restaurant scene, have a

886
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:47.039
cliffhanger, and it then really becomes about the doctor and Clara

887
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:49.619
as opposed to the gang that we're used to.

888
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:54.000
I mean, you know, he does talk about moments I wish Amy was here

889
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:55.619
you know, with the Sonic Screw.

890
00:39:55.679 --> 00:39:57.539
But isn't that just because Amy has long legs?

891
00:39:57.599 --> 00:39:58.380
right.

892
00:39:58.860 --> 00:40:00.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

893
00:40:01.260 --> 00:40:05.760
That voice activated thing where she says you should have made it

894
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:06.840
voice activated.

895
00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:08.219
Then she looks at his face.

896
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:11.340
So it is voice activated, right?

897
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:16.619
It's so like all of that stuff is really fun and funny and he

898
00:40:16.619 --> 00:40:18.780
doesn't win any of those conversations.

899
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:22.260
And I think that's what...

900
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:23.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

901
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:27.119
And because we've also established Perry as someone who gets

902
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:31.199
lusted after by men and manhandled, like her very 1st episode has

903
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:34.320
her being pulled and pushed around by the master and stuff, like

904
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:39.360
her body is kind of public property in a way that is super gross.

905
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:44.039
And having the doctor do it to her in her 2nd story is just

906
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:46.139
somewhere that you can't come back from.

907
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:47.940
Here they're equal.

908
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:50.340
And I think that that's what we're going for.

909
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:52.019
I think we're going for.

910
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:55.920
You know, she's going to have her face in the title sequence of

911
00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:58.139
episode 11 or 12, you know.

912
00:40:58.199 --> 00:41:02.880
They're equals and that scene, I think, is just marvellous because

913
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:05.400
she scores as many hits as he does, I think.

914
00:41:11.460 --> 00:41:15.360
There are a lot of comparisons made between the 12th doctor and

915
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:18.840
Clara and the 6th doctor and Perry's sort of bickering or slightly

916
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:22.440
abrasive dynamic, but I think they get different things wrong.

917
00:41:22.500 --> 00:41:24.480
So the 6th Dr. and Perry.

918
00:41:24.539 --> 00:41:28.139
I think Simon and Todd and I probably have a warmer opinion of

919
00:41:28.139 --> 00:41:31.199
that than a lot of people do because even though it's written

920
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:34.079
quite badly and the performers can't make it work.

921
00:41:34.139 --> 00:41:37.619
There are moments of genuine warmth between the doctor and Perry.

922
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:39.900
And that elevates the relationship.

923
00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:43.920
Whereas here, even though the writing is much better and it's

924
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:44.639
pulled off better.

925
00:41:44.699 --> 00:41:48.900
I don't believe that Capaldi or Jenna Coleman are particularly

926
00:41:48.900 --> 00:41:50.159
warm in their performances.

927
00:41:50.219 --> 00:41:52.260
And so it feels like a much cooler dynamic.

928
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:55.260
I love what you've just summarised there.

929
00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:58.920
I think that works for me in terms of where my brain is sitting.

930
00:41:58.980 --> 00:42:03.420
Do you know what I see more of rather than the peri thing, even

931
00:42:03.420 --> 00:42:07.980
though that's the logical or the easiest comparison, I think it's

932
00:42:07.980 --> 00:42:08.579
more Janet.

933
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:13.320
And Davidson's doctor, you can imagine Clara turning to him and

934
00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:15.119
saying, is that supposed to be Heathrow?

935
00:42:15.179 --> 00:42:18.300
You know, like, you know, or a line like that, the way Janet can

936
00:42:18.300 --> 00:42:20.579
be just so dismissive?

937
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:22.980
Conversely, I can really imagine Tegan turning around to the

938
00:42:22.980 --> 00:42:24.300
doctor and saying, say that again.

939
00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:25.380
I'll slap you so hard.

940
00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:26.340
You're regenerating.

941
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:26.880
Yes, exactly.

942
00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:27.960
No, exactly.

943
00:42:28.019 --> 00:42:30.000
Because you're right, because what Nathan, you were saying, is the

944
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:32.039
relationship between the Sixer and Perry is actually a bit

945
00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:35.519
problematic, much as I love that era.

946
00:42:35.579 --> 00:42:37.800
But I will acknowledge that.

947
00:42:37.860 --> 00:42:42.480
I think that, because you've said this before, when we've been

948
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:45.539
talking about the show, Peter, that part of your problem with

949
00:42:45.539 --> 00:42:50.940
what's happening at this point is that neither of the 2 leads is

950
00:42:50.940 --> 00:42:56.940
particularly warm and really at any point, you know, that they are

951
00:42:56.940 --> 00:43:00.900
kind of abrasive and unlikeable, in a way, both of them.

952
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:04.019
And that's not how Jenna started, is it?

953
00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:08.519
She started looking after children and being kind to Mary and all

954
00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:09.239
of that kind of thing.

955
00:43:09.300 --> 00:43:10.260
That's right.

956
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:12.599
She was also taking her cue from the doctor because, again, we

957
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:16.559
mentioned on our last retrospective that Matt Smith's doctor is

958
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:19.980
really not that nice and cuddly, but is played in a very warm and

959
00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:20.760
embracing way.

960
00:43:20.820 --> 00:43:22.980
So you can get away with a multitude of sins that way.

961
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:26.519
And going back to the very beginning of this conversation, Todd

962
00:43:26.519 --> 00:43:29.039
when you were talking about ratings, I just had a thought that

963
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:32.940
almost the most successful areas of the program are when there is

964
00:43:32.940 --> 00:43:36.119
a chummier relationship between the doctor and companion.

965
00:43:36.179 --> 00:43:38.699
You know, you think of the 3rd doctor and Joe, and obviously the

966
00:43:38.699 --> 00:43:42.360
4th doctor and Sarah, and you've got then the tenant here with the

967
00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:45.599
various companions and so on, and Matt and Karen and so on like

968
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:45.840
that.

969
00:43:45.900 --> 00:43:49.559
And maybe the program is less successful when they try and make

970
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:51.480
that relationship a little bit too adversarial.

971
00:43:51.539 --> 00:43:56.699
In fact, you know, Pertwee and Joe are an interesting case in

972
00:43:56.699 --> 00:44:00.599
point because Pertwee is super obnoxious in series 7, like

973
00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:04.619
particularly obnoxious and unlikeable in a way that Capoldi is

974
00:44:04.619 --> 00:44:04.980
too.

975
00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:08.639
I think he's, you know, like there's one or 2 sort of charming

976
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:11.760
moments where, you know, like he makes fun of Professor Stalman

977
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:13.619
and asks if his spleen is acting up.

978
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:16.980
Oh, that's another Doctor Who story that has the word spleen in it

979
00:44:16.980 --> 00:44:18.059
by the way. liver.

980
00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:18.960
Oh, is it his liver?

981
00:44:19.019 --> 00:44:20.340
No, okay, fair enough.

982
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:21.360
How does his liver?

983
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:24.000
Yeah, liver in this story as well.

984
00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:27.360
There is. walking around, like, in basses of death being

985
00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:27.900
obnoxious.

986
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:31.320
But yeah, and then Joe comes along and because we love Joe, and

987
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:34.320
because the doctor loves Joe. We know that the doctor can't be

988
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:38.400
such a terrible person because he loves Joe and his right to do so

989
00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:40.260
rough edges off every time he's doing something.

990
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:41.159
She's like, now, doctor.

991
00:44:41.219 --> 00:44:46.320
And you see that in that journey throughout seasons 8 to 9, you

992
00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:48.480
can see that from the beginning of that season.

993
00:44:48.539 --> 00:44:53.579
Whereas part of the point here of this pair is that there's no one

994
00:44:53.579 --> 00:44:55.739
to hold anyone back.

995
00:44:55.800 --> 00:45:00.900
And so the 2 of them just become worse and worse as the time goes

996
00:45:00.900 --> 00:45:01.139
by.

997
00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:05.820
And they will course correct with Bill and Nardle, which is part

998
00:45:05.820 --> 00:45:07.920
of what makes series 10 spoilers.

999
00:45:07.980 --> 00:45:08.340
So good.

1000
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:08.820
Yeah.

1001
00:45:08.820 --> 00:45:11.519
Do you want to say no one's to hold them back in terms of

1002
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:12.420
production?

1003
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:17.639
No, no, they're just getting worse and worse, you know, like Danny

1004
00:45:17.639 --> 00:45:17.940
I think.

1005
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:21.420
Maybe this season, you know, there's some moments.

1006
00:45:21.420 --> 00:45:24.059
That's the biggest misfiring of this era for me, the whole thing

1007
00:45:24.059 --> 00:45:24.599
with Danny.

1008
00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:28.980
But I'm thinking about things like in Mummy on the Own Express.

1009
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:33.420
She's on the phone to Danny and they're having a conversation

1010
00:45:33.420 --> 00:45:36.059
about her relationship with the doctor.

1011
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:40.920
So in a sense, there are 2 influences on Clara at this point or

1012
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:45.659
you know, this season and one's Danny and one's the doctor.

1013
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:48.480
But the doctor tends to win, you know?

1014
00:45:48.539 --> 00:45:52.800
And so she constantly kind of is getting out of control to the

1015
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:56.039
point where, you know, we get sort of various terrible things

1016
00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:58.559
happening in the two-part finale.

1017
00:45:58.619 --> 00:46:03.300
And then, of course, you know, going even further ahead, she

1018
00:46:03.300 --> 00:46:07.440
becomes the doctor to such a point that it kills her in season

1019
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:08.039
nine.

1020
00:46:08.099 --> 00:46:15.780
So, so it's, it is not a fun relationship or it's, you know

1021
00:46:15.780 --> 00:46:20.280
ultimately like it's described as an addiction or, or like a

1022
00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:22.739
problem and maybe that was the bad idea.

1023
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:28.500
It's set up to deliver some hilarious one-liners and sequences to

1024
00:46:28.500 --> 00:46:28.860
each other.

1025
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:29.519
Excellent.

1026
00:46:29.579 --> 00:46:31.320
But yeah, which are superb.

1027
00:46:31.380 --> 00:46:35.099
But as a whole, it doesn't warm me.

1028
00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:36.119
It just warm my heart.

1029
00:46:36.179 --> 00:46:39.719
Richard, we like watching Tom and Elizabeth and stuff.

1030
00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:40.079
Yeah.

1031
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:40.500
Yeah.

1032
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:42.659
See, if Richard will here, I think he'd drawing comparisons

1033
00:46:42.659 --> 00:46:45.599
between Spence Tracy and Catherine Hepburn. kind of, like that

1034
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:48.659
sophisticated kind of, you know, we're not going to show overt

1035
00:46:48.659 --> 00:46:51.659
affection to each other, but we're going to sort of spa in cool

1036
00:46:51.659 --> 00:46:52.079
ways.

1037
00:46:52.139 --> 00:46:54.780
It's a bit Tom and Lala, really.

1038
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:57.960
But there it was underpinned by the performance because we knew

1039
00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:00.719
that they were actually in love with each other and that's what

1040
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:01.559
comes out on screen.

1041
00:47:01.619 --> 00:47:06.300
Yeah, there's real warmth there despite the coolness of the

1042
00:47:06.300 --> 00:47:08.219
delivery and the coolness of the dialogue.

1043
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:09.480
There are more smiles.

1044
00:47:09.539 --> 00:47:13.079
There aren't as many there aren't enough smiles to each other in

1045
00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:14.159
this era, are there?

1046
00:47:14.219 --> 00:47:15.179
Or maybe I'm just forgetting.

1047
00:47:15.300 --> 00:47:15.900
No, you're right.

1048
00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:17.340
It comes back to.

1049
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:18.300
It's not warm enough.

1050
00:47:18.420 --> 00:47:21.360
Yeah, but it's not warm enough to deliver the dynamic that they're

1051
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:21.719
after.

1052
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:24.960
It's like I forgive the entirety of the twin dilemma at the time.

1053
00:47:25.019 --> 00:47:27.599
In fact, I really enjoyed it at the time, but those last lines

1054
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:30.300
where, you know, Colin says, I'm the doctor whether you like it or

1055
00:47:30.300 --> 00:47:30.599
not.

1056
00:47:30.659 --> 00:47:34.559
And this little smile. smiles at each other and then you know

1057
00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:35.699
everything's going to be all right.

1058
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:37.800
And I think that's the sort of thing that's actually missing

1059
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:38.280
here.

1060
00:47:38.340 --> 00:47:41.340
Yeah, although I hate that moment.

1061
00:47:41.400 --> 00:47:45.900
I just think it's her smiling at her abusive husband, you know

1062
00:47:45.900 --> 00:47:47.880
like it's sort of gross.

1063
00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:01.860
Like, even at the end, when they go off to get coffee, there's

1064
00:48:01.860 --> 00:48:04.559
still an uneasiness there, I think that's where perhaps you're

1065
00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:04.980
going with that.

1066
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:08.099
But taking things back to when they actually get downstairs into

1067
00:48:08.099 --> 00:48:11.760
the actual spaceship, and Peter Capoldi is the doctor down there

1068
00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:14.880
all of his little investigations around that when he obviously

1069
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:19.739
leaves her and then comes back to confront the clockwork man.

1070
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:21.119
Like he is the doctor.

1071
00:48:21.179 --> 00:48:22.440
Yeah, 0 yeah.

1072
00:48:22.500 --> 00:48:27.059
And I think that, you know, from that point forward, like there is

1073
00:48:27.059 --> 00:48:32.280
a change in, well, what you were saying, Simon, like it does marry

1074
00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:35.159
up the performer with the doctor.

1075
00:48:35.219 --> 00:48:36.119
Do you know what I mean?

1076
00:48:36.179 --> 00:48:42.719
And of course, we also then have Strax and Jenny and coming in to

1077
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:44.579
break the potential. possible sequence.

1078
00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:46.500
It's a wonderful segment.

1079
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:48.840
I'm not, you know, all the...

1080
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:51.719
And then him just, the strikes just falling to the floor.

1081
00:48:51.780 --> 00:48:56.099
Take the stairs. tying them back into the conclusion of this

1082
00:48:56.099 --> 00:48:56.340
episode.

1083
00:48:56.400 --> 00:48:59.760
It was nice to have the clockwork people back from...

1084
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:00.900
Yeah, an unexpected return.

1085
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:01.980
Unexpected return.

1086
00:49:02.039 --> 00:49:04.260
Just something nice and not in a kind of a pivotal, we're going to

1087
00:49:04.260 --> 00:49:04.860
destroy the universe.

1088
00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:06.480
You know, they just need their bits of spare parts.

1089
00:49:06.539 --> 00:49:09.300
Same kind of thing without being old. just the same story again.

1090
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:13.139
I think that there's some parallel drawn between the half-faced

1091
00:49:13.139 --> 00:49:14.460
man and the doctor.

1092
00:49:14.460 --> 00:49:17.340
And it's a scene where he's having the confrontation.

1093
00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:21.900
He holds up the mirror or the platter, the silver platter, shows

1094
00:49:21.900 --> 00:49:25.920
the half face man, his face, and says, is there anything left of

1095
00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:30.000
what you were originally, you know, do you know where this face

1096
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:31.440
even came from?

1097
00:49:31.500 --> 00:49:32.340
Is even there?

1098
00:49:32.460 --> 00:49:33.119
Yeah, true.

1099
00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:38.039
And so, and we think his reflection. in the bladder at the time.

1100
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:42.000
And so it is about him sort of questioning what's the point of

1101
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:43.980
going on in a way.

1102
00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:47.280
It is a lovely thing, lovely analogy with the broom.

1103
00:49:47.340 --> 00:49:49.440
Yeah, replace the handle, replace the brush.

1104
00:49:49.500 --> 00:49:50.280
Is it still the same broom?

1105
00:49:50.340 --> 00:49:52.320
Yeah, that's not, it's a completely different period.

1106
00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:55.800
But it's just a lovely story to tell. one of those casually

1107
00:49:55.800 --> 00:49:58.860
brilliant moth at moments where they realise that the hands on the

1108
00:49:58.860 --> 00:49:59.940
half-faced man are different.

1109
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:06.000
It's quite gruesome. as is the skin, the balloon made of skin.

1110
00:50:06.059 --> 00:50:07.260
That's actually quite icky.

1111
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:08.519
That was my last birthday party.

1112
00:50:09.960 --> 00:50:11.820
What about the thing?

1113
00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:16.079
He takes off the hand so that he can put the gas jet thing and he

1114
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:18.480
sticks it on his lapel and it's just there for the rest of the

1115
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:18.900
episode.

1116
00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:20.820
It's great.

1117
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:26.460
But that whole confrontation with the half-faced man in the

1118
00:50:26.460 --> 00:50:30.300
restaurant, I think, is just absolutely extraordinary.

1119
00:50:30.300 --> 00:50:34.440
And it is, you know, where he lands as the doctor. realised

1120
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:35.219
performances from both of them.

1121
00:50:35.340 --> 00:50:38.760
Yeah, ultimately, I think the episode hangs on just those 22

1122
00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:39.539
hander scenes.

1123
00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:43.380
The one with Dr. and Clara in the restaurant and then the one with

1124
00:50:43.380 --> 00:50:44.940
the doctor and the half-faced man at the end.

1125
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:45.719
Yeah.

1126
00:50:45.780 --> 00:50:46.559
Yeah.

1127
00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:48.239
And so he pushes him out, right?

1128
00:50:48.300 --> 00:50:50.579
Yes, I'd imagine so.

1129
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:52.199
I don't think the clockwork man commits suicide.

1130
00:50:52.260 --> 00:50:52.679
No.

1131
00:50:52.739 --> 00:50:53.460
No.

1132
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:57.360
And so we get the introduction of the promised land, which comes

1133
00:50:57.360 --> 00:50:58.739
up from time to time.

1134
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:03.239
And I quite like how the doctor's just too old and just absolutely

1135
00:51:03.239 --> 00:51:06.000
dismisses any kind of religious ideas.

1136
00:51:06.059 --> 00:51:10.860
And I think we've had 2 showrunners who have been interested in

1137
00:51:10.860 --> 00:51:13.739
religion while ultimately rejecting it.

1138
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:16.440
So you get Capoli here being very blunt.

1139
00:51:16.500 --> 00:51:20.039
It was a little bit like Pertu talking about your mythical devil

1140
00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:21.420
to Joe. Yes.

1141
00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:24.599
Oh, that's a nice confrontation.

1142
00:51:24.659 --> 00:51:27.659
The impaled clockwork man is a bit...

1143
00:51:27.659 --> 00:51:32.039
But I think that's really well done because the doctor, you know

1144
00:51:32.039 --> 00:51:34.619
it's the usual thing with robots who only have to kill one robot

1145
00:51:34.619 --> 00:51:37.920
and then the others all die, so we don't have to think of a way of

1146
00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:39.300
dealing with them.

1147
00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:39.960
Yes, yes.

1148
00:51:40.019 --> 00:51:41.699
And some of the autons collapsing.

1149
00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:42.659
Yeah, that's right.

1150
00:51:42.719 --> 00:51:46.739
But we know that he's died because we see them collapse.

1151
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:47.400
Yes.

1152
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:49.139
So we see them collapse.

1153
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:53.699
Then we cut to the thing we see the hatch fall.

1154
00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:55.739
We don't actually see him fall at all.

1155
00:51:55.860 --> 00:51:58.800
And so we see the hat fall and I thought, oh, that's clever.

1156
00:51:58.860 --> 00:52:02.460
They're just using the hat falling as a way of showing what's that

1157
00:52:02.460 --> 00:52:04.079
he's falling because they couldn't have achieved.

1158
00:52:04.139 --> 00:52:05.519
And Capaldi looking at a camera.

1159
00:52:05.579 --> 00:52:06.599
And then, yes.

1160
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:09.119
But then he's impaled on the thing.

1161
00:52:09.179 --> 00:52:12.059
Bunch like Matt himself nearly was at the beginning of the 11th

1162
00:52:12.059 --> 00:52:12.360
hour.

1163
00:52:12.420 --> 00:52:14.940
That goes like that thing of like, you know, repairing a clock

1164
00:52:14.940 --> 00:52:18.239
with a chisel, one false step, the half-face manual, never tell

1165
00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:18.960
the time again.

1166
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:25.380
And then the glorious missy.

1167
00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:26.039
Yeah.

1168
00:52:26.099 --> 00:52:27.900
Oh, what a star turn.

1169
00:52:27.960 --> 00:52:30.900
If only that had been shot in the studio, she'd have eaten every

1170
00:52:30.900 --> 00:52:33.659
chunk of scenery. amazing.

1171
00:52:33.719 --> 00:52:37.139
She, I think, is my favourite master.

1172
00:52:37.860 --> 00:52:40.380
It's her up to her in Delgado.

1173
00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:40.739
It is.

1174
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:42.599
Sasha is an honourable mansion.

1175
00:52:42.659 --> 00:52:45.900
Yeah, well, Sasha is now, I think, come up to that same level, but

1176
00:52:45.900 --> 00:52:49.500
I think the 3 of them are, for me, the ones that truly count as

1177
00:52:49.500 --> 00:52:52.320
the master. streets ahead of the others.

1178
00:52:52.380 --> 00:52:54.420
Yeah, I still like John Sim.

1179
00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:55.739
But Peter Pratt.

1180
00:52:55.800 --> 00:52:58.260
Yes, and Jeffrey Beavers.

1181
00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:02.280
See, for me, John Sims steps over a line, which is unfortunate in

1182
00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:06.780
a way that's Missy's over the top and so Sasha Duan, but they're

1183
00:53:06.780 --> 00:53:09.480
not, somehow they managed to keep it on the right side of the

1184
00:53:09.480 --> 00:53:09.659
line.

1185
00:53:09.719 --> 00:53:12.539
That's what Nathan's always saying about the master being crafted

1186
00:53:12.539 --> 00:53:15.119
as an opposite for that particular doctor.

1187
00:53:15.179 --> 00:53:19.559
Missy is the perfect opposing force for Capaldi's energy.

1188
00:53:19.619 --> 00:53:22.380
John Sim is perfect for the tenants energy.

1189
00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:22.980
I think that's right.

1190
00:53:23.099 --> 00:53:26.579
And I think, you know, like the fact where she deliberately says

1191
00:53:26.579 --> 00:53:28.739
oh, you know, do you like his new accent?

1192
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:30.119
I think I'm going to keep it.

1193
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:34.019
And so she's, that's the origin of her Scottish accent.

1194
00:53:34.079 --> 00:53:36.539
She's just doing it because her boyfriend does.

1195
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:39.599
But isn't it great that there's, is it the foreshadowing of what

1196
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:43.559
we get in the Dalek story that starts the next season where, you

1197
00:53:43.559 --> 00:53:46.380
know, it's that thing of, you know, you see that couple over there

1198
00:53:46.380 --> 00:53:51.420
you're the dog. where she says, my friend, it's my best friend, my

1199
00:53:51.420 --> 00:53:52.860
how does she refer to the doctor?

1200
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:53.639
Her boyfriend.

1201
00:53:53.699 --> 00:53:54.599
Her boyfriend.

1202
00:53:54.719 --> 00:53:59.099
And in fact, the word boyfriend is really freighted because Vastra

1203
00:53:59.099 --> 00:54:03.360
says, you know, he's not your lover or your boyfriend and she says

1204
00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:04.980
you know, I never expected that.

1205
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:08.460
He says to her, like the doctor says to Clara.

1206
00:54:08.519 --> 00:54:11.639
I'm not your boyfriend and she says, well, yes, I knew that.

1207
00:54:11.699 --> 00:54:14.400
And he said, yes, yes, but that was my mistake, you know.

1208
00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:18.900
And now there's another boyfriend and like it's even underlined by

1209
00:54:18.900 --> 00:54:23.039
the kind of robot way the half-faced man responds by repeating the

1210
00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:26.460
word boyfriend, isn't it really awkward way?

1211
00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:29.219
Do you think it's a message to certain fans?

1212
00:54:29.340 --> 00:54:31.739
Like, he's not your boyfriend?

1213
00:54:31.860 --> 00:54:33.480
Like, kind of delicious if it is.

1214
00:54:33.900 --> 00:54:39.000
But I just think, like, it's Moffat doing the 1st regeneration

1215
00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:43.619
where, like, he's not brave enough to cast a female doctor himself

1216
00:54:43.619 --> 00:54:50.579
but he does cast a female master and she is just superb.

1217
00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:53.219
Like, I think she's straight ahead of Delgado, to be honest.

1218
00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:57.119
I have obviously a lot of affection for Delgado, whom I've known

1219
00:54:57.119 --> 00:55:00.659
as the master for many, many decades, but I just think Michelle

1220
00:55:00.659 --> 00:55:02.940
Gomez wipes the floor with it.

1221
00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:07.440
I think she's incredible and she's called upon to, you know

1222
00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:10.860
eventually bring a real depth to the character as well.

1223
00:55:10.920 --> 00:55:14.219
I mean, I don't think Delgado's performance is camp performance.

1224
00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:15.059
No.

1225
00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:17.039
And Missy's very much is.

1226
00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:18.900
So they're enjoyable on very different levels.

1227
00:55:19.019 --> 00:55:21.480
Yes, they're quite different, but equally good.

1228
00:55:21.539 --> 00:55:25.679
I think for me, Missy gets it because it sounds may sound

1229
00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:28.320
ridiculous, but you know, the Delgado master always likes to wear

1230
00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:29.460
terribly nice clothes.

1231
00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:31.800
Like he's always got the terribly nice suit and the cigar and the

1232
00:55:31.800 --> 00:55:35.159
big car and so on and she's got the lovely garden and the whole

1233
00:55:35.159 --> 00:55:36.659
outfit and the umbrella and so on.

1234
00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:39.179
Whereas maybe that's why I don't like the John Sims masters

1235
00:55:39.179 --> 00:55:42.239
because he's kind of in a hoodie. doesn't work for me.

1236
00:55:42.300 --> 00:55:43.739
He needs to be sophisticated.

1237
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:46.559
He needs to be more sophisticated and look more suave than the

1238
00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:46.800
doctor.

1239
00:55:46.860 --> 00:55:51.840
But it is his thing of um, at the end of this episode, like, so

1240
00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:57.599
Steven's now introduced this, our thread for the season, like, if

1241
00:55:57.599 --> 00:56:00.300
it wasn't about the doctor being a good man, then who is this

1242
00:56:00.300 --> 00:56:01.380
mysterious missy?

1243
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:05.340
And of course, that's going to go throughout the entire series.

1244
00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:07.980
But it's also, it's his new plaything. right?

1245
00:56:08.039 --> 00:56:13.980
He's also got units and Osgood to play with coming back because

1246
00:56:13.980 --> 00:56:15.539
he's already done that once.

1247
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:18.360
He's also working Danny Pink into the mix, right?

1248
00:56:18.420 --> 00:56:20.219
as part of this season.

1249
00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:22.079
So he's got all these new playthings.

1250
00:56:22.139 --> 00:56:25.559
And so thus this is the last time we see Faster Journey and

1251
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:25.980
Strat.

1252
00:56:26.039 --> 00:56:27.780
And I think that's a shame.

1253
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:31.199
I think for me, personally, it sends a signal like these

1254
00:56:31.199 --> 00:56:32.880
characters don't work with this doctor.

1255
00:56:33.059 --> 00:56:37.739
If you look at perhaps unit and that with Tom, yes, they were in

1256
00:56:37.739 --> 00:56:39.659
robot, they were also interred the zygons.

1257
00:56:39.719 --> 00:56:41.699
There was at least a phasing out of things.

1258
00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:44.579
I would have liked to have seen them at least one more time with

1259
00:56:44.579 --> 00:56:47.820
this doctor a bit further along the track where he is in his

1260
00:56:47.820 --> 00:56:50.760
journey, whether he is with Clara or whatever, but that's never

1261
00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:51.300
going to happen.

1262
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:55.559
I mean, as a final outing, they're brilliant, but I think it's a

1263
00:56:55.559 --> 00:56:57.000
shame that we don't get to see them again.

1264
00:56:57.059 --> 00:57:01.500
I think there's a real course correction after series 7 here for

1265
00:57:01.500 --> 00:57:04.260
Moffatt, and I think that he reacts, as I've said before, against

1266
00:57:04.260 --> 00:57:07.079
the previous season each season.

1267
00:57:07.139 --> 00:57:13.199
And so 7 had no arc at all in reaction against series 6's, you

1268
00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:14.519
know, very complex arc.

1269
00:57:14.579 --> 00:57:21.719
And now we're back to him doing what he started doing, which is a

1270
00:57:21.719 --> 00:57:24.539
romantic comedy set in a school.

1271
00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:28.199
So this is him going back to press gang.

1272
00:57:28.260 --> 00:57:33.659
And he gives himself lots of co-credits in this season.

1273
00:57:33.719 --> 00:57:37.440
And I think that that's because he's writing the scenes with Danny

1274
00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:40.320
and Clara.

1275
00:57:40.380 --> 00:57:44.400
All of that romantic comedy stuff is absolutely just reeks of

1276
00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:47.699
Moffatt even in the episodes that he's not actually writing.

1277
00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:50.699
And I think he's particularly aware of the fact that following the

1278
00:57:50.699 --> 00:57:54.119
50th and all the hoopla and the celebration of the programs past

1279
00:57:54.119 --> 00:57:57.300
that the program has to keep changing and do new things.

1280
00:57:57.360 --> 00:58:01.019
And so getting rid of Vastra and Jenny and Strax, not because they

1281
00:58:01.019 --> 00:58:02.760
didn't work or we didn't want to see them, it's just the program

1282
00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:04.199
has to renew itself.

1283
00:58:04.260 --> 00:58:04.980
It has to move on.

1284
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:08.760
And so we introduced the idea too of the afterlife.

1285
00:58:08.820 --> 00:58:10.860
So we've got paradise, the promised land.

1286
00:58:10.920 --> 00:58:15.539
We've got the half-face man turning up. after he's killed by the

1287
00:58:15.539 --> 00:58:15.960
doctor.

1288
00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:21.119
And I think that that is a theme and has always been a theme of

1289
00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:26.159
Doctor Who is death, but now we're going to really tackle that, I

1290
00:58:26.159 --> 00:58:29.099
think, in a way that eventually becomes quite upsetting by the end

1291
00:58:29.099 --> 00:58:29.880
of the season.

1292
00:58:56.940 --> 00:58:59.519
Well, the listener, that's all we have time for this week.

1293
00:58:59.579 --> 00:59:02.760
We'll be back next week for our long awaiting tribute to Raquel

1294
00:59:02.760 --> 00:59:04.800
Welsh in into the Dalek.

1295
00:59:04.860 --> 00:59:08.519
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1296
00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:11.400
and you can keep up with us at flights for entirety on Facebook, at

1297
00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:15.539
FDE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety

1298
00:59:14.099 --> 00:59:18.480
com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger

1299
00:59:18.480 --> 00:59:22.800
Jody InterTara, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project.

1300
00:59:23.219 --> 00:59:27.599
Until next time, remember that when saving someone's life, it's

1301
00:59:27.599 --> 00:59:30.000
always best to underpromise and over deliver.

1302
00:59:30.059 --> 00:59:32.340
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1303
00:59:32.400 --> 00:59:34.019
See you soon Bye for now.

1304
00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:34.800
Good night.

1305
00:59:40.860 --> 00:59:44.400
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd Bilby, Nathan

1306
00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:46.619
Bottomley, Peter Griffiths, and Simon Moore.

1307
00:59:46.619 --> 00:59:48.300
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1308
00:59:48.420 --> 00:59:52.079
This episode of Peter Capoldi Shaped Time Tunnel was recorded on

1309
00:59:52.079 --> 00:59:56.460
the 11th of December 2022 and released on the 16th of April, 2023.

1310
00:59:57.300 --> 01:00:01.619
Once again, it's time for FDE Enterprises to launch its newest

1311
01:00:01.619 --> 01:00:05.880
venture, Mancini's, a family restaurant chain, offering the latest

1312
01:00:05.880 --> 01:00:09.119
in hastily butchered human offal in a thoroughly off putting

1313
01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:10.199
Victorian atmosphere.

1314
01:00:10.260 --> 01:00:12.119
Try the spotted dick.

1315
01:00:12.179 --> 01:00:12.960
You'll love it.

1316
01:00:16.380 --> 01:00:20.099
I have thoroughly enjoyed this discussion of this episode.

1317
01:00:20.159 --> 01:00:24.539
It highlights to me the strength and, you know, some of the falls

1318
01:00:24.539 --> 01:00:25.019
of it.

1319
01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:28.139
I mean, I was talking to Nathan earlier about saying that its

1320
01:00:28.139 --> 01:00:33.659
biggest flaw is that it's not the 11th hour, but I think it's also

1321
01:00:33.659 --> 01:00:35.039
its greatest strength as well.

1322
01:00:35.519 --> 01:00:39.840
And I can see all the setup for the season and where they're

1323
01:00:39.840 --> 01:00:40.380
going.

1324
01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:43.199
And I think I think this episode is terribly underrated.

1325
01:00:43.260 --> 01:00:46.019
Like I really, I really do think it's very strong.

1326
01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:48.840
Like I don't want to say 9 out of 10, but I will.

1327
01:00:49.079 --> 01:00:54.360
And I really am intrigued by Peter's performance.

1328
01:00:54.719 --> 01:01:01.500
And through this discussion, I'm still uneasy about the way Clara

1329
01:01:01.500 --> 01:01:04.800
has been written and written, not necessarily played because I

1330
01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:05.820
think Jenna does a great job.

1331
01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:08.760
It's the coolness that I probably have a problem with.

1332
01:01:09.900 --> 01:01:15.960
But I do think it's a really good start to this season and what

1333
01:01:15.960 --> 01:01:17.099
they want to do.

1334
01:01:17.159 --> 01:01:25.139
It's more that competently and creatively revamping the show as he

1335
01:01:25.139 --> 01:01:28.199
goes and proving that he's still firing on all cylinders.

1336
01:01:28.260 --> 01:01:31.440
He's not content just to fall back on things that he did that

1337
01:01:31.440 --> 01:01:31.860
worked.

1338
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:35.519
He wants the program to go off into uncharted waters.

1339
01:01:35.579 --> 01:01:38.099
And so even though the episode itself is fine.

1340
01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:38.699
It's very good.

1341
01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:40.139
It's not one of the best.

1342
01:01:40.199 --> 01:01:42.119
It succeeds in that respect.

1343
01:01:42.599 --> 01:01:46.139
I think that Moffat has finally cast himself as the doctor.

1344
01:01:46.199 --> 01:01:48.000
Have I said this on the podcast before?

1345
01:01:48.059 --> 01:01:50.039
He's also cast himself as Clara.

1346
01:01:50.099 --> 01:01:51.599
He's cast himself.

1347
01:01:51.659 --> 01:01:55.860
Yeah, that's right He's cast himself as the doctor and so he's

1348
01:01:55.860 --> 01:01:59.340
absolutely upping his game because he really doesn't want to

1349
01:01:59.340 --> 01:02:02.699
embarrass Capaldi or embarrass himself in front of Capaldi.

1350
01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:06.780
And so this does inject a kind of new lease of life into the

1351
01:02:06.780 --> 01:02:07.079
show.

1352
01:02:07.139 --> 01:02:12.239
I think he had 2 kind of fairly fallow years and now he's sort of

1353
01:02:12.239 --> 01:02:13.679
really back in there.

1354
01:02:13.739 --> 01:02:20.519
And I haven't seen all of season 8 in preparation for this, but I

1355
01:02:20.519 --> 01:02:22.800
did like it a lot of the time and I'm looking forward to seeing

1356
01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:24.239
what I end up thinking about it.

1357
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:27.840
I still sort of thought echoing what I said after the 50s.

1358
01:02:27.900 --> 01:02:30.119
I think it's just, I think, I think the program is suffering from

1359
01:02:30.119 --> 01:02:33.179
a hangover from its 50th birthday party.

1360
01:02:33.179 --> 01:02:39.780
And I worry that the hangover lasts most of the rest of the decade

1361
01:02:39.780 --> 01:02:42.719
and well into the next.

1362
01:02:42.780 --> 01:02:44.940
Well, no, in terms of all the decade in the show.

1363
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:47.219
I think I think it's not sure.

1364
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:49.019
You know, it is what to do next.

1365
01:02:49.079 --> 01:02:50.219
You know, we have to do something different.

1366
01:02:50.280 --> 01:02:52.619
Pressure to do something different or do we just keep going along

1367
01:02:52.619 --> 01:02:53.099
the same?

1368
01:02:53.219 --> 01:02:55.500
I think I think you wouldn't have noticed it so much had Matt

1369
01:02:55.500 --> 01:02:59.400
Smith done an extra year had he done the 51st year, then I think

1370
01:02:59.400 --> 01:03:02.760
we wouldn't have been in this situation.

1371
01:03:02.820 --> 01:03:03.840
I just think.

1372
01:03:04.019 --> 01:03:07.920
And very noticeably when Moffat sort of runs out of new things to

1373
01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:11.940
do and just does a greatest hit series 10 turns out really well.

1374
01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:15.119
Yes, it's that thing of when you stop trying to do something

1375
01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:18.659
different and just go back to basic sometimes it does succeed more

1376
01:03:18.659 --> 01:03:21.780
much as I love the Moffat era as a whole.

1377
01:03:21.840 --> 01:03:25.679
And I think what you're saying is that you're just basically

1378
01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:28.139
dismissing the 2nd and 3rd of them, Matt Smith.

1379
01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:31.559
No, no, I mean, I still like both of those, but I do think that

1380
01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:32.519
seven.

1381
01:03:32.579 --> 01:03:35.039
And when I said the last 2 years, I did mean series seven.

1382
01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:37.199
Oh, and...

1383
01:03:37.199 --> 01:03:37.980
Yes, I said to me.

1384
01:03:38.039 --> 01:03:38.340
Yeah.

1385
01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:41.699
Well, anyway, point being that I actually think what is showing is

1386
01:03:41.699 --> 01:03:45.059
you shouldn't have a showrunner do more than one doctor.

1387
01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:47.940
RTD manages it because Eccleston's only a year.

1388
01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:48.179
Right.

1389
01:03:48.239 --> 01:03:51.059
So that's kind of like a, that's kind of like the preamble to what

1390
01:03:51.059 --> 01:03:52.679
what has actually become the new series.

1391
01:03:52.739 --> 01:03:57.539
I think Moffatt's problem is that he does do 2 meaty, complete

1392
01:03:57.539 --> 01:04:02.219
eras, and I think you get the JNT problem where they're kind of a

1393
01:04:02.219 --> 01:04:04.380
little bit floundering as to what to do next.

1394
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:06.119
You can do a Barry Letts.

1395
01:04:06.179 --> 01:04:09.119
You can do an entire era in the 1st season of the next doctor

1396
01:04:09.119 --> 01:04:12.780
which is a bit of an amalgam of what can store. and then the next

1397
01:04:12.780 --> 01:04:16.139
but then you need for that 2nd year or for partway through the 1st

1398
01:04:16.139 --> 01:04:16.440
year.

1399
01:04:16.500 --> 01:04:19.260
You need the Philip Hinchcliffe to take over and go, now we're

1400
01:04:19.260 --> 01:04:19.800
going to go.

1401
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:21.840
We're going to do something else because I think only that new

1402
01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:24.719
person can have the true vision.

1403
01:04:24.780 --> 01:04:25.380
Yes.

1404
01:04:25.679 --> 01:04:27.480
A truly new vision.

1405
01:04:27.539 --> 01:04:31.199
I was looking through old Facebook posts and I came across a post

1406
01:04:31.199 --> 01:04:36.059
that I wrote at the end of this night.

1407
01:04:36.179 --> 01:04:39.780
No, after watching, after watching Twice Upon a Time, where I just

1408
01:04:39.780 --> 01:04:42.719
said, oh, God, thank God, that's over.

1409
01:04:42.780 --> 01:04:45.179
You know, the era of man pain is over.

1410
01:04:45.239 --> 01:04:51.239
And I really like Moffat as a writer and as a showrunner.

1411
01:04:51.300 --> 01:04:54.900
But I think, I think by the end of it, I was a bit sick of it and

1412
01:04:54.900 --> 01:04:56.099
ready for something else to happen.

1413
01:04:56.159 --> 01:04:56.699
Yeah, me too.

1414
01:04:56.760 --> 01:04:57.059
Me too.

1415
01:04:57.119 --> 01:04:58.739
He'd run out of tricks, hadn't he?

1416
01:04:58.860 --> 01:04:59.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1417
01:04:59.699 --> 01:05:00.659
I think we can.

1418
01:05:00.659 --> 01:05:01.739
I think there's an accident.

1419
01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:03.239
Yeah, probably even before that.

1420
01:05:03.300 --> 01:05:04.800
Before that, yeah, I think.

1421
01:05:04.800 --> 01:05:06.179
Yeah, I would rather end on a positive.

1422
01:05:06.239 --> 01:05:07.920
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

1423
01:05:07.980 --> 01:05:08.460
Yeah.

1424
01:05:08.519 --> 01:05:08.880
All right.

1425
01:05:08.940 --> 01:05:09.179
Cool.

1426
01:05:09.300 --> 01:05:09.840
Brilliant.

1427
01:05:09.900 --> 01:05:10.139
Okay.